1 00:00:01,440 --> 00:00:04,240 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of I 2 00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:13,640 Speaker 1: Heart Radio. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. 3 00:00:13,720 --> 00:00:17,000 Speaker 1: There's Charles w Chuck Bryan over there, and this is 4 00:00:17,079 --> 00:00:20,640 Speaker 1: Stuff you should Know, just the two of us doing 5 00:00:20,680 --> 00:00:24,040 Speaker 1: it together. We're hanging out. We're going to get to 6 00:00:24,079 --> 00:00:28,000 Speaker 1: the bottom of some stuff that's right and uh, you know, 7 00:00:28,320 --> 00:00:31,360 Speaker 1: the Grabster helped us out with this one a little 8 00:00:31,360 --> 00:00:34,680 Speaker 1: while ago. And it almost feels now like I was 9 00:00:34,760 --> 00:00:39,159 Speaker 1: purposefully sitting on it because of the the turnout of 10 00:00:39,159 --> 00:00:45,040 Speaker 1: the recent elections across the pond there. Okay, I'm not 11 00:00:45,120 --> 00:00:50,400 Speaker 1: familiar with what happened. Well, the shin fain Uh is 12 00:00:50,440 --> 00:00:54,360 Speaker 1: now in place as the largest party INO in the 13 00:00:54,800 --> 00:01:00,600 Speaker 1: Northern Ireland Assembly elections, and this means that like this 14 00:01:00,680 --> 00:01:03,520 Speaker 1: is probably the best chance they've had in a long 15 00:01:03,600 --> 00:01:08,520 Speaker 1: time for reuniting Ireland. Oh wow, that'd be something. Wow, 16 00:01:08,560 --> 00:01:11,520 Speaker 1: you really did save it for just the right right moment, Chuck. 17 00:01:11,920 --> 00:01:13,440 Speaker 1: You know, it's just a couple of weeks ago and 18 00:01:13,720 --> 00:01:15,400 Speaker 1: I read a bunch of articles on it on the 19 00:01:15,440 --> 00:01:18,800 Speaker 1: likelihood and it seems um it seems like a hard 20 00:01:18,880 --> 00:01:24,680 Speaker 1: road still, but they definitely is. It's something they're interested 21 00:01:24,680 --> 00:01:27,560 Speaker 1: in I think that party that is, and polls are 22 00:01:27,640 --> 00:01:30,640 Speaker 1: very split. Yeah, I'm I'm interested to see how it 23 00:01:30,640 --> 00:01:33,319 Speaker 1: turns out. But that is pretty interesting that they're they're 24 00:01:33,360 --> 00:01:35,080 Speaker 1: finally in a position to do that, because that means 25 00:01:35,120 --> 00:01:38,200 Speaker 1: they've come a very long way in the last what 26 00:01:38,360 --> 00:01:41,360 Speaker 1: fifty or so years um. For those of you who 27 00:01:41,360 --> 00:01:46,080 Speaker 1: aren't familiar, shin Fan is considered the political wing of 28 00:01:46,120 --> 00:01:49,560 Speaker 1: the Irish Republican Army. And the reason we're talking about 29 00:01:49,560 --> 00:01:52,760 Speaker 1: either one of those is because we're talking about hunger strikes, 30 00:01:52,760 --> 00:01:56,160 Speaker 1: specifically a set of hunger strikes that took place at 31 00:01:56,160 --> 00:01:58,240 Speaker 1: the beginning of the twentieth century and then towards the 32 00:01:58,280 --> 00:02:00,800 Speaker 1: end of the twentieth century, and they are very much 33 00:02:00,800 --> 00:02:04,080 Speaker 1: associated with the I r A. In fact, if you 34 00:02:04,280 --> 00:02:07,000 Speaker 1: ask most people who are familiar with hunger strikes, they 35 00:02:07,000 --> 00:02:09,080 Speaker 1: will probably bring up the I ra A. It's like 36 00:02:09,160 --> 00:02:12,880 Speaker 1: that closely associated with them. Yeah, and you know, we 37 00:02:12,919 --> 00:02:15,400 Speaker 1: should just say we're we're gonna do our best to 38 00:02:15,400 --> 00:02:17,280 Speaker 1: get this right, but this is one of those that is, 39 00:02:18,320 --> 00:02:24,600 Speaker 1: you know, it's so fraught with emotion um on both sides. 40 00:02:24,639 --> 00:02:26,520 Speaker 1: So we just want to tell all of our friends 41 00:02:26,880 --> 00:02:29,240 Speaker 1: in Northern Ireland and all of our friends in the 42 00:02:29,240 --> 00:02:33,720 Speaker 1: Irish Republic that we were doing our best here, just 43 00:02:33,840 --> 00:02:38,040 Speaker 1: two Americans trying to understand a very deeply, long rooted, 44 00:02:39,000 --> 00:02:43,480 Speaker 1: oftentimes hostile situation. And for those of you, like Morrissey 45 00:02:43,560 --> 00:02:46,880 Speaker 1: with Irish blood but English heart, um, we will hopefully 46 00:02:46,880 --> 00:02:49,480 Speaker 1: not tick you off either. We're doing our best here, 47 00:02:50,000 --> 00:02:54,040 Speaker 1: just a couple of Yankee American Joe's doing what we can. 48 00:02:54,919 --> 00:02:56,320 Speaker 1: That's right. And we had a great time, by the 49 00:02:56,320 --> 00:02:59,600 Speaker 1: way in Dublin, and our only regret was not being 50 00:02:59,639 --> 00:03:01,799 Speaker 1: able to go and do a live show in Northern Ireland, 51 00:03:01,840 --> 00:03:04,280 Speaker 1: which I couldn't squeeze it in, but we'd love to 52 00:03:04,360 --> 00:03:07,240 Speaker 1: check it out one day, agreed. So you said that, like, 53 00:03:07,280 --> 00:03:10,400 Speaker 1: this is a very emotionally fraught subject, and that is 54 00:03:10,800 --> 00:03:15,160 Speaker 1: a gross understatement really, because um, what we're gonna focus 55 00:03:15,200 --> 00:03:17,840 Speaker 1: on are called the troubles, which started at the end 56 00:03:17,880 --> 00:03:21,240 Speaker 1: of the sixties and beginning of the seventies, but um, 57 00:03:21,280 --> 00:03:24,560 Speaker 1: really it goes back even further than that, and uh, 58 00:03:24,760 --> 00:03:28,320 Speaker 1: you can kind of place the beginning of hostilities in 59 00:03:28,560 --> 00:03:33,840 Speaker 1: sixteen o nine when the Protestant English came into Catholic 60 00:03:33,880 --> 00:03:37,160 Speaker 1: Ireland and said, hey, we're gonna take some of this land, 61 00:03:37,600 --> 00:03:40,080 Speaker 1: and we're going to take some of your land rights 62 00:03:40,240 --> 00:03:43,120 Speaker 1: away from those of you with documented land rights, and 63 00:03:43,160 --> 00:03:47,960 Speaker 1: we're going to set up some English enclaves and we're 64 00:03:48,120 --> 00:03:51,280 Speaker 1: just going to basically show up and and sit here 65 00:03:51,440 --> 00:03:54,440 Speaker 1: for a while. And that didn't sit very well with um, 66 00:03:54,520 --> 00:03:57,560 Speaker 1: the ethnic Irish or Gaelic people who lived in the area. 67 00:03:58,160 --> 00:04:00,400 Speaker 1: So that was one part of it. And I also 68 00:04:00,480 --> 00:04:03,200 Speaker 1: hit on another part two, Chuck, that we've got Protestant 69 00:04:03,280 --> 00:04:06,880 Speaker 1: and Catholic basically versus each other. Now, yeah, and you know, 70 00:04:07,200 --> 00:04:09,119 Speaker 1: I think Ed makes a good point that it's it's 71 00:04:09,160 --> 00:04:12,760 Speaker 1: not strictly about religion, but when you're over there and 72 00:04:12,760 --> 00:04:16,479 Speaker 1: you're talking Catholic and Protestant, it's so intertwined in the 73 00:04:16,520 --> 00:04:19,600 Speaker 1: fabric of kind of everything that goes on, including the politics, 74 00:04:19,640 --> 00:04:22,160 Speaker 1: that it's really, you know, there's no way you can 75 00:04:22,160 --> 00:04:26,120 Speaker 1: separate it. But it wasn't necessarily uh an Irish or 76 00:04:26,200 --> 00:04:30,840 Speaker 1: a well, I guess Irish Catholic, English Scottish Protestant battle, 77 00:04:31,520 --> 00:04:34,720 Speaker 1: but it is the seeds are there. So in particular 78 00:04:34,760 --> 00:04:39,000 Speaker 1: in the North of Ireland around Ulster, a bunch of 79 00:04:39,360 --> 00:04:43,039 Speaker 1: Protestant English and Scottish people kind of settled there over 80 00:04:43,080 --> 00:04:47,039 Speaker 1: the years and Um formed what's basically known or what 81 00:04:47,080 --> 00:04:51,120 Speaker 1: was known as the plantation of ulster Um. And so 82 00:04:51,440 --> 00:04:57,200 Speaker 1: over time you've got this largely Gaelic population inhabiting the 83 00:04:57,240 --> 00:05:00,440 Speaker 1: central and south part of Ireland and then a mixed 84 00:05:00,960 --> 00:05:06,520 Speaker 1: Catholic Gaelic and um English and Scottish Protestant kind of 85 00:05:06,600 --> 00:05:10,680 Speaker 1: group coexisting for better for worse in the northern part 86 00:05:11,000 --> 00:05:14,520 Speaker 1: of the country. And it's remarkable that it lasted like 87 00:05:14,600 --> 00:05:18,279 Speaker 1: this for you know, several centuries before it finally came 88 00:05:18,320 --> 00:05:22,240 Speaker 1: to a head at the beginning of the twentieth century. Yeah, 89 00:05:22,320 --> 00:05:25,960 Speaker 1: and as far as you know, how those people in 90 00:05:26,040 --> 00:05:28,480 Speaker 1: Northern Ireland that were that were kind of you know, 91 00:05:29,000 --> 00:05:31,560 Speaker 1: mixed in together felt about things then and how they 92 00:05:31,560 --> 00:05:34,360 Speaker 1: feel about things now, you know, Ed makes some kind 93 00:05:34,400 --> 00:05:37,440 Speaker 1: of sweeping statements that it's it's just kind of hard 94 00:05:37,440 --> 00:05:40,160 Speaker 1: to do, especially when you look at like modern day 95 00:05:40,200 --> 00:05:43,960 Speaker 1: polls on reunification and stuff like that. Those seeds run 96 00:05:44,000 --> 00:05:46,120 Speaker 1: deep and people are still kind of divided on it, 97 00:05:46,200 --> 00:05:49,840 Speaker 1: so you can't necessarily just say that, you know, these 98 00:05:49,920 --> 00:05:56,360 Speaker 1: days the people in Northern Ireland favor Protestantism and want 99 00:05:56,400 --> 00:05:58,400 Speaker 1: to be a part of the UK it's it's a 100 00:05:58,440 --> 00:06:01,400 Speaker 1: mixed bag, right, Yeah, I would guess to be akin 101 00:06:01,520 --> 00:06:06,160 Speaker 1: to UM, you know, people wanting to their state to secede, 102 00:06:06,279 --> 00:06:09,360 Speaker 1: or the United States to break into five different countries 103 00:06:09,440 --> 00:06:13,160 Speaker 1: or something like that, although UM probably with much much 104 00:06:13,480 --> 00:06:17,360 Speaker 1: more emotional opinions about that. And then throw religion in there, 105 00:06:17,760 --> 00:06:21,040 Speaker 1: exactly just that little light thing. So, like I said, this, 106 00:06:21,200 --> 00:06:25,000 Speaker 1: this kind of precarious living situations living arrangement came to 107 00:06:25,080 --> 00:06:29,240 Speaker 1: a head UM all the way in nineteen twelve when 108 00:06:29,360 --> 00:06:34,600 Speaker 1: Irish nationalists kind of movement UM began. I think they 109 00:06:34,680 --> 00:06:37,880 Speaker 1: started before that, but in nineteen twelves they started really 110 00:06:37,920 --> 00:06:43,120 Speaker 1: pushing for Home rule, which is Irish um governing Ireland. 111 00:06:43,279 --> 00:06:46,280 Speaker 1: It's pretty much as simple as that, UM. And that 112 00:06:46,440 --> 00:06:49,560 Speaker 1: created the Home Rule crisis, and it was a crisis 113 00:06:49,560 --> 00:06:51,920 Speaker 1: as far as the British were concerned, because all of 114 00:06:51,960 --> 00:06:55,719 Speaker 1: a sudden, they're Irish people were saying, hey, we we 115 00:06:55,839 --> 00:06:58,719 Speaker 1: basically want you out and we want to rule Ireland. 116 00:06:58,800 --> 00:07:02,000 Speaker 1: So let's just end the four centuries of occupation, shall we. 117 00:07:03,839 --> 00:07:06,080 Speaker 1: The way you put it there just sounds very nice. Yeah, 118 00:07:06,240 --> 00:07:09,279 Speaker 1: I'm sure that's how they put in. Uh. This was 119 00:07:09,320 --> 00:07:11,320 Speaker 1: sort of put off a bit by World War One. 120 00:07:11,440 --> 00:07:15,680 Speaker 1: Obviously that kind of disrupted a lot of things. But eventually, 121 00:07:15,720 --> 00:07:19,280 Speaker 1: in nineteen sixteen, the Nationalists did revolt and it was 122 00:07:19,320 --> 00:07:22,680 Speaker 1: called the Easter Rising of nineteen sixteen. And this was 123 00:07:22,880 --> 00:07:26,720 Speaker 1: a bloody affair. It was I mean, I think there 124 00:07:26,720 --> 00:07:30,840 Speaker 1: were more than a dozen leaders executed, many thousands of 125 00:07:30,840 --> 00:07:33,880 Speaker 1: people in prison. It was just a it was a 126 00:07:33,920 --> 00:07:37,240 Speaker 1: brutal conflict. Uh, And that was just you know, that 127 00:07:37,320 --> 00:07:39,880 Speaker 1: kind of kick things off in nineteen sixteen. It continued 128 00:07:40,240 --> 00:07:43,720 Speaker 1: again in nineteen nineteen with what we know now is 129 00:07:43,800 --> 00:07:45,240 Speaker 1: the well, I guess what was called this then too, 130 00:07:45,600 --> 00:07:49,120 Speaker 1: the Anglo Irish War. And there were a lot of 131 00:07:49,160 --> 00:07:53,200 Speaker 1: sort of governmental policies going on during this time. The 132 00:07:53,240 --> 00:07:58,040 Speaker 1: Government of Ireland Act of nineteen twenty officially, as far 133 00:07:58,040 --> 00:08:01,560 Speaker 1: as they were concerned, created two Ireland's Northern Ireland and 134 00:08:01,600 --> 00:08:04,400 Speaker 1: what they called Southern Ireland that we're all still under 135 00:08:04,440 --> 00:08:08,720 Speaker 1: the rule of the UK and Great Britain. But Southern 136 00:08:08,760 --> 00:08:12,119 Speaker 1: Ireland was like, no, we're not. What is Southern Ireland 137 00:08:12,160 --> 00:08:16,640 Speaker 1: where the Irish Republic like, don't even call a Southern Ireland. Um. 138 00:08:16,720 --> 00:08:19,920 Speaker 1: So that actually kind of got translated into a treaty 139 00:08:20,200 --> 00:08:23,040 Speaker 1: UM that ended the Anglo Irish War. It was the 140 00:08:24,040 --> 00:08:28,880 Speaker 1: treaty that basically recognized Ireland as two separate nations. You've 141 00:08:28,880 --> 00:08:32,840 Speaker 1: got Ireland itself, which is again the central and southern 142 00:08:32,840 --> 00:08:35,560 Speaker 1: part of the country, and then you have Northern Ireland, 143 00:08:35,600 --> 00:08:37,760 Speaker 1: which is part of the United Kingdom. It's a totally 144 00:08:37,760 --> 00:08:42,000 Speaker 1: different country, um, at least geo politically speaking, it's a 145 00:08:42,040 --> 00:08:45,880 Speaker 1: totally different country. And again there's a big distinction between 146 00:08:46,080 --> 00:08:50,800 Speaker 1: Ireland and Northern Ireland and the population makeup because those Protestant, 147 00:08:50,920 --> 00:08:54,240 Speaker 1: Catholic and Scottish people that settled in the northern part 148 00:08:54,280 --> 00:08:58,320 Speaker 1: of Ireland over the centuries had um descendants. In those 149 00:08:58,320 --> 00:09:02,880 Speaker 1: descendants stayed um loyal to the Crown, they stayed Protestant, 150 00:09:03,320 --> 00:09:07,760 Speaker 1: and at times they they were more powerful than their 151 00:09:07,880 --> 00:09:10,400 Speaker 1: Catholic neighbors. So in the late sixties, by the time 152 00:09:10,400 --> 00:09:12,959 Speaker 1: the late sixties roll around and you've got to Ireland's 153 00:09:13,679 --> 00:09:17,840 Speaker 1: you have a Protestant elite, small minority of Protestants ruling 154 00:09:18,280 --> 00:09:22,480 Speaker 1: Northern Ireland, much to the chagrin of the Catholic Um 155 00:09:23,000 --> 00:09:26,320 Speaker 1: Gaelic people who lived there. Uh. And that kind of 156 00:09:26,360 --> 00:09:28,960 Speaker 1: set up there set the stage I guess for the 157 00:09:29,000 --> 00:09:32,800 Speaker 1: troubles that followed, yeah, and the troubles uh, and then 158 00:09:32,840 --> 00:09:35,719 Speaker 1: he said began in the late sixties. They carried through 159 00:09:35,840 --> 00:09:39,840 Speaker 1: till about nine more than I mean, the numbers kind 160 00:09:39,840 --> 00:09:42,240 Speaker 1: of very depending on you know, what you're looking at, 161 00:09:42,280 --> 00:09:47,120 Speaker 1: but at least thirty five hundred people died, fifty percent 162 00:09:47,280 --> 00:09:51,360 Speaker 1: of which were civilians. And these were you know, it 163 00:09:51,480 --> 00:09:54,920 Speaker 1: was a mess. There were paramilitary groups on both sides, 164 00:09:55,480 --> 00:09:59,720 Speaker 1: there were British military taking part, there were street battles, 165 00:09:59,720 --> 00:10:02,120 Speaker 1: there were bombings. I mean, this is the kind of 166 00:10:02,160 --> 00:10:04,000 Speaker 1: stuff that in the like when you and I were 167 00:10:04,000 --> 00:10:06,800 Speaker 1: growing up in the seventies and eighties, you know, this 168 00:10:06,920 --> 00:10:08,480 Speaker 1: was all over the news at the time, and it 169 00:10:08,600 --> 00:10:11,960 Speaker 1: was I had no idea. I didn't understand it at 170 00:10:12,000 --> 00:10:15,480 Speaker 1: all at the time, and it took you know, me 171 00:10:15,559 --> 00:10:19,000 Speaker 1: listening to a lot of you two and then trying 172 00:10:19,000 --> 00:10:21,240 Speaker 1: to educate myself over what was going on over the years. 173 00:10:21,240 --> 00:10:23,199 Speaker 1: But I don't think I fully really understood it until 174 00:10:23,440 --> 00:10:25,240 Speaker 1: like the past few days, when I really dug in 175 00:10:25,520 --> 00:10:28,520 Speaker 1: absolutely same here man. So one of the things that 176 00:10:28,600 --> 00:10:32,800 Speaker 1: kicked off those troubles you just described, um, was the 177 00:10:32,800 --> 00:10:37,280 Speaker 1: the Gaelic Catholics protesting the unfair rule as they saw 178 00:10:37,520 --> 00:10:43,319 Speaker 1: of the Protestant minority. And the problem is these protests 179 00:10:43,320 --> 00:10:49,040 Speaker 1: were kind of suppressed brutally by the Protestant government and 180 00:10:49,520 --> 00:10:52,800 Speaker 1: with the aid of the British military, British um police, 181 00:10:52,800 --> 00:10:56,600 Speaker 1: I believe, and that's that turned quickly into rioting and 182 00:10:56,640 --> 00:11:00,960 Speaker 1: then eventually, like you said, the paramilitary groups assembling and 183 00:11:01,760 --> 00:11:06,040 Speaker 1: basically guerrilla warfare breaking out in Northern Ireland. So imagine like, 184 00:11:06,600 --> 00:11:09,800 Speaker 1: you know, going to work one day and you're Catholic 185 00:11:09,880 --> 00:11:13,200 Speaker 1: and your co workers Protestant, and the next day you 186 00:11:13,240 --> 00:11:16,520 Speaker 1: guys are fighting each other on the street, um for 187 00:11:17,000 --> 00:11:22,120 Speaker 1: control of of your both of your country. Yeah, it's 188 00:11:22,120 --> 00:11:24,320 Speaker 1: it's it's nuts to think about it as an American 189 00:11:24,360 --> 00:11:26,960 Speaker 1: because like we can't fathom something like that, you know, 190 00:11:27,000 --> 00:11:29,560 Speaker 1: to Gen xers growing up in the in the Cold 191 00:11:29,600 --> 00:11:32,040 Speaker 1: War Reagan era, right, I mean, we're pretty far removed 192 00:11:32,080 --> 00:11:34,760 Speaker 1: from the Civil War here in the United States. This 193 00:11:34,840 --> 00:11:37,280 Speaker 1: is like civil war that took place in the early 194 00:11:37,320 --> 00:11:40,040 Speaker 1: seventies or started in the early seventies and continued for 195 00:11:40,040 --> 00:11:43,240 Speaker 1: almost thirty years. Yeah, and previous you know, we should 196 00:11:43,240 --> 00:11:45,240 Speaker 1: back up a little bit, I guess and talk about 197 00:11:45,640 --> 00:11:48,680 Speaker 1: the origins of the ira Uh. This had to do 198 00:11:48,720 --> 00:11:51,480 Speaker 1: with the Easter Rising that we talked about of nineteen sixteen. 199 00:11:52,400 --> 00:11:55,079 Speaker 1: It was initiated by what was called the Irish Volunteers 200 00:11:55,800 --> 00:11:58,000 Speaker 1: UH in nineteen sixteen, and by the twenties they were 201 00:11:58,040 --> 00:12:01,480 Speaker 1: known as the i RA, a UH Irish Republican Army, 202 00:12:01,679 --> 00:12:05,560 Speaker 1: and they fought a civil war in the early nineteen twenties. 203 00:12:05,880 --> 00:12:09,079 Speaker 1: In the nine nineteen twenty three there were a lot 204 00:12:09,160 --> 00:12:12,360 Speaker 1: of different nationalist factions fighting one another. One of these 205 00:12:12,440 --> 00:12:15,960 Speaker 1: was the IRA, and there was civil war going on 206 00:12:16,040 --> 00:12:18,840 Speaker 1: back then as well. So there's just been decades and 207 00:12:18,880 --> 00:12:22,960 Speaker 1: decades of unrest by the time the nineteen sixties roll around, Yeah, 208 00:12:22,960 --> 00:12:26,880 Speaker 1: and that nineteen twenties civil war um was in Ireland itself. 209 00:12:26,920 --> 00:12:29,280 Speaker 1: So after it became a sovereign nation, all those groups 210 00:12:29,280 --> 00:12:31,440 Speaker 1: that had fought the British started fighting each other to 211 00:12:31,440 --> 00:12:33,160 Speaker 1: figure out who was going to run the show from 212 00:12:33,200 --> 00:12:37,480 Speaker 1: then on. So the IRA that you and I think about, UM, 213 00:12:37,559 --> 00:12:39,439 Speaker 1: that you know, we learned about from you two and 214 00:12:39,840 --> 00:12:42,559 Speaker 1: the news and the eighties and all that, Um, they're 215 00:12:42,559 --> 00:12:45,920 Speaker 1: the ones that you would call the provisional IRA, and 216 00:12:45,960 --> 00:12:48,640 Speaker 1: they formed out of the beginning of the troubles, those 217 00:12:48,679 --> 00:12:51,640 Speaker 1: protests and riots beginning in nineteen sixty nine. They were 218 00:12:51,640 --> 00:12:54,880 Speaker 1: one of the paramilitary groups that developed and they became 219 00:12:55,200 --> 00:12:59,080 Speaker 1: UM pretty famous in no small part because of the 220 00:12:59,160 --> 00:13:02,600 Speaker 1: hunger strikes they ended up carrying out. Should we take 221 00:13:02,640 --> 00:13:05,199 Speaker 1: a break? I think so, I think we've reached breakness. 222 00:13:05,559 --> 00:13:08,080 Speaker 1: I know, the nerves that was nervous during that setup. 223 00:13:08,960 --> 00:13:10,880 Speaker 1: Were you You thought I was just gonna keep going 224 00:13:10,920 --> 00:13:13,480 Speaker 1: and going. No, No, not that. I was just like, man, 225 00:13:13,559 --> 00:13:17,040 Speaker 1: this stuff is so you know, there's there are fine lines, 226 00:13:17,080 --> 00:13:19,520 Speaker 1: and I just don't want to misspeak. Oh I don't 227 00:13:19,559 --> 00:13:21,480 Speaker 1: think we did. But now that I just said that, 228 00:13:21,559 --> 00:13:24,720 Speaker 1: of course we did. All right, Well, we'll gather ourselves 229 00:13:24,720 --> 00:13:26,720 Speaker 1: and we'll be right back to talk about the history 230 00:13:26,720 --> 00:13:50,839 Speaker 1: of hunger strikes a little bit right after this, Okay, Chuck. 231 00:13:50,920 --> 00:13:54,000 Speaker 1: So why would anybody engage in a hunger strike and 232 00:13:54,000 --> 00:13:58,199 Speaker 1: why would they be most closely related or thought of, um, 233 00:13:58,400 --> 00:14:03,120 Speaker 1: in relation to the I R A. Well, uh, you know, 234 00:14:03,440 --> 00:14:08,160 Speaker 1: there is some evidence that they were rooted in Celtic tradition, UM, 235 00:14:08,360 --> 00:14:10,880 Speaker 1: hundreds of years ago. There were you know, there were 236 00:14:10,920 --> 00:14:14,960 Speaker 1: stories of people undergoing hunger strikes and it might you know, 237 00:14:15,000 --> 00:14:17,800 Speaker 1: it wasn't necessarily political at the time. So how it 238 00:14:17,840 --> 00:14:21,200 Speaker 1: would go down is like maybe somebody owed you money 239 00:14:21,400 --> 00:14:23,120 Speaker 1: and wouldn't give it to you, so you would go 240 00:14:23,280 --> 00:14:26,120 Speaker 1: very publicly to where they live, camp out on their 241 00:14:26,120 --> 00:14:29,200 Speaker 1: doorstep and engage in a hunger strike. And it was 242 00:14:29,240 --> 00:14:34,920 Speaker 1: sort of just a very public display of you know, 243 00:14:35,080 --> 00:14:37,040 Speaker 1: maybe you didn't have means to get it any other way, 244 00:14:37,040 --> 00:14:39,160 Speaker 1: so it was a very public display and way of saying, 245 00:14:40,360 --> 00:14:43,120 Speaker 1: this person is doing me wrong and I am out 246 00:14:43,120 --> 00:14:47,200 Speaker 1: here like starving myself. Pay attention, right. It was so 247 00:14:47,360 --> 00:14:50,560 Speaker 1: common it was actually written into Gaelic law. I was 248 00:14:50,600 --> 00:14:53,600 Speaker 1: called the troupes cad or trust God, I'm going with 249 00:14:53,680 --> 00:14:59,200 Speaker 1: trups cad um, and it was it was the concept 250 00:14:59,200 --> 00:15:02,640 Speaker 1: of hospitality in Ireland among the Gaelic people was so 251 00:15:02,680 --> 00:15:08,000 Speaker 1: strong that, um, it was just unthinkable to let somebody 252 00:15:08,000 --> 00:15:10,600 Speaker 1: starve on your doorstep. So it was really kind of 253 00:15:10,600 --> 00:15:13,040 Speaker 1: playing on two things. It was drawing attention to somebody, 254 00:15:13,240 --> 00:15:16,040 Speaker 1: and then it was also showing what a terrible person 255 00:15:16,040 --> 00:15:18,560 Speaker 1: they were for letting this person starve on their doorstep. 256 00:15:18,920 --> 00:15:21,520 Speaker 1: The thing is this is real, that really happened, Like 257 00:15:21,600 --> 00:15:24,840 Speaker 1: it's it comes up in some of the um epics 258 00:15:24,880 --> 00:15:28,040 Speaker 1: from the Gaelic culture, and like it's documented that it 259 00:15:28,080 --> 00:15:31,480 Speaker 1: was a real thing. But what's not documented is it's 260 00:15:31,680 --> 00:15:34,600 Speaker 1: linked to the I r A hunger strikes of the 261 00:15:34,640 --> 00:15:36,800 Speaker 1: beginning of the twentieth century and then towards the end 262 00:15:36,800 --> 00:15:40,160 Speaker 1: of the twentieth century. Because nobody involved in those ever 263 00:15:40,160 --> 00:15:43,880 Speaker 1: said I'm I'm doing I'm pulling a trop scad um. 264 00:15:44,040 --> 00:15:46,160 Speaker 1: They didn't link it to it, but you could make 265 00:15:46,160 --> 00:15:48,480 Speaker 1: a case that it was kind of like in the 266 00:15:48,560 --> 00:15:51,440 Speaker 1: culture to think of doing something like that, because it 267 00:15:51,480 --> 00:15:54,320 Speaker 1: had been around for hundreds of years. Yeah, I think 268 00:15:54,320 --> 00:15:57,040 Speaker 1: that's fair to say. And you know, it continued, like 269 00:15:57,080 --> 00:16:00,200 Speaker 1: in the early nineteen hundreds, there were how are you 270 00:16:00,200 --> 00:16:05,600 Speaker 1: saying at suffragettes, suffragists, suffrage suffragists. Yeah, like how you 271 00:16:05,720 --> 00:16:10,560 Speaker 1: call a female or male server a server, a female 272 00:16:10,600 --> 00:16:13,400 Speaker 1: or male actor and actor? We don't do, you know. 273 00:16:14,160 --> 00:16:16,880 Speaker 1: I know that David Bowie song always confuses me, though, well, 274 00:16:16,920 --> 00:16:20,080 Speaker 1: it's a good song and it should remain. But they 275 00:16:20,120 --> 00:16:23,320 Speaker 1: would undergo hunger strikes, but they would bring in sort 276 00:16:23,360 --> 00:16:28,720 Speaker 1: of like religious iconography sometimes and sort of paint themselves 277 00:16:28,760 --> 00:16:32,280 Speaker 1: as martyrs. They would invoke the Virgin Mary and Joan 278 00:16:32,320 --> 00:16:35,640 Speaker 1: of Arc and stuff like that. And again, this is 279 00:16:35,760 --> 00:16:38,080 Speaker 1: not exactly the same thing. But this is just to 280 00:16:38,120 --> 00:16:41,640 Speaker 1: say that in the early nineteen hundreds there were, uh, 281 00:16:41,680 --> 00:16:44,680 Speaker 1: there were women in Ireland that were undergoing these hunger strikes. 282 00:16:44,920 --> 00:16:47,680 Speaker 1: They also happened in Russia, and I think they called 283 00:16:47,720 --> 00:16:51,560 Speaker 1: some of these like the Russian method. Uh. They would 284 00:16:51,560 --> 00:16:54,800 Speaker 1: get there, they would do this reverse like force feeding, 285 00:16:54,840 --> 00:16:59,080 Speaker 1: like reverse stomach bumping to force feed some of these people. Um. 286 00:16:59,160 --> 00:17:02,000 Speaker 1: Sometimes that would killed them. So it was it was 287 00:17:02,120 --> 00:17:06,800 Speaker 1: just a nasty way to draw attention, and the way 288 00:17:06,840 --> 00:17:09,439 Speaker 1: that it was countered was also nasty. Yeah. So the 289 00:17:09,520 --> 00:17:13,439 Speaker 1: first i RA members to hunger strike want to go 290 00:17:13,520 --> 00:17:18,800 Speaker 1: on hunger strike, um, were inspired by the suffragists um, 291 00:17:18,840 --> 00:17:21,280 Speaker 1: who were sometimes in the same prison as them. The 292 00:17:21,359 --> 00:17:24,000 Speaker 1: first ira A member to do it was James Connolly, 293 00:17:24,280 --> 00:17:27,159 Speaker 1: who went on hunger strike in and was actually released 294 00:17:27,160 --> 00:17:29,960 Speaker 1: from prison as a result. UM. And then a few 295 00:17:30,000 --> 00:17:34,520 Speaker 1: years later, UM, the case of Thomas Ash drew national 296 00:17:34,560 --> 00:17:37,560 Speaker 1: and I think maybe even international attention because he went 297 00:17:37,600 --> 00:17:40,479 Speaker 1: on hunger strike and they accidentally killed him when they 298 00:17:40,520 --> 00:17:44,199 Speaker 1: tried to force feed him. Yeah, they pumped milk and 299 00:17:44,200 --> 00:17:50,000 Speaker 1: eggs into his lungs by accident, which is uh, I mean, 300 00:17:50,040 --> 00:17:51,439 Speaker 1: it's hard to think of like what kind of an 301 00:17:51,480 --> 00:17:54,720 Speaker 1: awful death after you're already starving yourself. Uh. And we 302 00:17:54,760 --> 00:17:58,200 Speaker 1: should also point out to that. Another similarity that they 303 00:17:58,200 --> 00:18:02,679 Speaker 1: had with these original early nineteen hundreds suffragists with their 304 00:18:02,760 --> 00:18:06,200 Speaker 1: hunger strikes is they were and this is a very 305 00:18:06,280 --> 00:18:08,600 Speaker 1: key thing for what ended up being, you know, the 306 00:18:08,680 --> 00:18:10,639 Speaker 1: hunger strikes in the nineteen eighties that we're going to 307 00:18:10,720 --> 00:18:12,880 Speaker 1: talk about in a bit, But they one of their 308 00:18:12,920 --> 00:18:16,840 Speaker 1: main aims was to be looked at as political prisoners 309 00:18:17,280 --> 00:18:20,879 Speaker 1: and not criminal prisoners. Yeah. That was a big ongoing 310 00:18:21,000 --> 00:18:24,159 Speaker 1: thread throughout all of this, starting with the suffragists and 311 00:18:24,200 --> 00:18:27,440 Speaker 1: then all the way into the eighties with modern IRA. 312 00:18:28,840 --> 00:18:30,680 Speaker 1: So um, I mean, should we talk about that for 313 00:18:30,720 --> 00:18:34,800 Speaker 1: a minute? Yeah, sure, Well, you know, there's a huge 314 00:18:34,840 --> 00:18:39,040 Speaker 1: difference in being viewed as a criminal and wearing prisoners 315 00:18:39,080 --> 00:18:43,280 Speaker 1: clothing and having a prisoners rights which are to say, 316 00:18:43,480 --> 00:18:47,080 Speaker 1: like criminal prisoners rights which are to say, not very many, 317 00:18:47,320 --> 00:18:49,840 Speaker 1: and what they were fighting for and what the the 318 00:18:49,880 --> 00:18:51,840 Speaker 1: I r. A Was later fighting for in the eighties 319 00:18:51,840 --> 00:18:55,960 Speaker 1: and the seventies, which was we're political prisoners. We want 320 00:18:56,000 --> 00:18:58,280 Speaker 1: to be able, we don't want to look like common criminals. 321 00:18:58,320 --> 00:19:00,320 Speaker 1: We want to wear our own clothes. We want to 322 00:19:00,320 --> 00:19:02,960 Speaker 1: be able to uh, to associate with with each other 323 00:19:03,000 --> 00:19:07,280 Speaker 1: and walk about, um outside of ourselves and congregate. And 324 00:19:07,480 --> 00:19:09,960 Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy six, you know, they allowed this for 325 00:19:10,000 --> 00:19:13,000 Speaker 1: a while, but nineteen seventy six of British government said no, 326 00:19:13,440 --> 00:19:15,800 Speaker 1: we're going to treat you like your terrorists and like 327 00:19:15,840 --> 00:19:18,960 Speaker 1: your common criminals. And you've got to wear these You 328 00:19:18,960 --> 00:19:21,719 Speaker 1: can't congregate anymore. You've got to wear, you know, uh, 329 00:19:21,760 --> 00:19:25,720 Speaker 1: a prisoners jumpsuit. And this was a big, big deal. 330 00:19:26,560 --> 00:19:29,040 Speaker 1: It really was for a number of reasons. One UM, 331 00:19:29,320 --> 00:19:32,280 Speaker 1: the reason why the Brits said we're not going to 332 00:19:32,280 --> 00:19:35,240 Speaker 1: recognize you as political prisoners was because they had at 333 00:19:35,280 --> 00:19:40,719 Speaker 1: first um and they decided that this was generating too 334 00:19:40,840 --> 00:19:45,240 Speaker 1: much sympathy and legitimizing the i r A and its 335 00:19:45,240 --> 00:19:50,160 Speaker 1: struggle for Irish independence way too much, and by casting 336 00:19:50,200 --> 00:19:55,320 Speaker 1: them as criminals rather than political prisoners, they were saying like, hey, 337 00:19:55,359 --> 00:19:58,960 Speaker 1: these people are dangerous, their thugs, they're terrorists, and you 338 00:19:59,000 --> 00:20:00,800 Speaker 1: should be on the side of us, the Brits and 339 00:20:00,840 --> 00:20:04,119 Speaker 1: the Protestants who are cleaning up the streets and getting 340 00:20:04,119 --> 00:20:06,840 Speaker 1: these people off the streets and into jail. So it 341 00:20:06,920 --> 00:20:11,600 Speaker 1: wasn't just the way your day to day life panned 342 00:20:11,600 --> 00:20:14,959 Speaker 1: out in prison. It was also like the larger public 343 00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:18,320 Speaker 1: perception a battle for that that was going on that 344 00:20:18,480 --> 00:20:21,719 Speaker 1: both sides were really entrenched in their way of thinking 345 00:20:21,720 --> 00:20:24,399 Speaker 1: with that. Well, yeah, and that's the reason a hunger 346 00:20:24,400 --> 00:20:27,440 Speaker 1: strike in the case of the IRA was, or could 347 00:20:27,440 --> 00:20:30,399 Speaker 1: be at least very effective as a pr tool, because 348 00:20:30,520 --> 00:20:34,800 Speaker 1: a common criminal prisoner is it going to literally starve 349 00:20:34,880 --> 00:20:38,720 Speaker 1: themselves to death for a cause. So on one hand 350 00:20:38,840 --> 00:20:41,399 Speaker 1: you have the British government saying, you know, we're not 351 00:20:41,400 --> 00:20:43,800 Speaker 1: going to recognize you, you're just terrorists. On the other hand, 352 00:20:44,119 --> 00:20:47,639 Speaker 1: you've got the i ra A starving themselves to death, Uh, 353 00:20:47,800 --> 00:20:50,560 Speaker 1: fighting for rights to where their own clothing. I think, Uh, 354 00:20:50,600 --> 00:20:52,600 Speaker 1: this one thing you sent me said as far as 355 00:20:52,640 --> 00:20:55,880 Speaker 1: their them congregating, is that in prison they just saw 356 00:20:55,920 --> 00:20:59,280 Speaker 1: that as another I ra A headquarters. Basically. Yeah, they 357 00:20:59,400 --> 00:21:02,480 Speaker 1: did a lot of strategizing in the early seventies and 358 00:21:02,520 --> 00:21:05,600 Speaker 1: they were able to chuck because of something called um 359 00:21:05,680 --> 00:21:09,960 Speaker 1: Operation Demetrius, and that was something that the British Army 360 00:21:09,960 --> 00:21:13,640 Speaker 1: carried out in one and it ended up backfiring because 361 00:21:13,680 --> 00:21:16,479 Speaker 1: it generated a tremendous amount of public sympathy for the 362 00:21:16,520 --> 00:21:19,960 Speaker 1: i r A and its movement um because the British 363 00:21:20,080 --> 00:21:23,000 Speaker 1: Army just started rounding up suspected members of the i 364 00:21:23,200 --> 00:21:25,720 Speaker 1: r A and put them in what amounted to a 365 00:21:25,760 --> 00:21:28,880 Speaker 1: prisoner of war camp um. There was no due process, 366 00:21:28,920 --> 00:21:30,520 Speaker 1: they didn't get to plead their case in front of 367 00:21:30,520 --> 00:21:33,199 Speaker 1: a judge if they accidentally got scooped up, and they 368 00:21:33,240 --> 00:21:34,840 Speaker 1: really had nothing to do with the I RA A 369 00:21:35,320 --> 00:21:37,880 Speaker 1: t s. There was no recourse for getting out of there, 370 00:21:38,320 --> 00:21:40,720 Speaker 1: and they set up the Brits set up a prisoner 371 00:21:40,760 --> 00:21:44,760 Speaker 1: of war camp um in Northern Ireland to hold I 372 00:21:44,760 --> 00:21:49,440 Speaker 1: think hundreds and hundreds of of prisoners starting in UM one, 373 00:21:49,800 --> 00:21:52,640 Speaker 1: and it really really rubbed the public the wrong way 374 00:21:52,680 --> 00:21:57,119 Speaker 1: because it's nineteen seventy one. You know, this isn't like 375 00:21:57,160 --> 00:22:01,840 Speaker 1: the seventeenth century all over again. It's one and they're 376 00:22:01,920 --> 00:22:05,280 Speaker 1: rounding people up and holding them in prisoners of prisoner 377 00:22:05,320 --> 00:22:10,280 Speaker 1: of war camps um against Theirwell that's crazy. Yeah. So 378 00:22:10,600 --> 00:22:12,440 Speaker 1: you know, a hunger strike could be a pretty effective 379 00:22:12,480 --> 00:22:16,159 Speaker 1: way to draw attention to this. Uh you know. Ed 380 00:22:16,200 --> 00:22:19,399 Speaker 1: points out a few um things about hunger strikes that 381 00:22:19,440 --> 00:22:22,280 Speaker 1: could make it more effective, which is obviously to do 382 00:22:22,359 --> 00:22:25,840 Speaker 1: it as a collective action is a much stronger message 383 00:22:25,840 --> 00:22:29,520 Speaker 1: that you're sending than any individual. Um. So if you 384 00:22:29,520 --> 00:22:31,879 Speaker 1: have a group with a political cause, you're gonna get 385 00:22:31,880 --> 00:22:36,480 Speaker 1: more attention. Um. You know, it casts the prison officials 386 00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:40,119 Speaker 1: in a light of which they're either allowing these people 387 00:22:40,200 --> 00:22:42,680 Speaker 1: to starve to death, which is, you know, a monstrous 388 00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:45,400 Speaker 1: thing to do, or they're forced feeding them, which sometimes 389 00:22:45,440 --> 00:22:49,080 Speaker 1: kills them, which is a monstrous thing to do. And 390 00:22:49,560 --> 00:22:51,880 Speaker 1: you know, your body basically shuts down. I think we've 391 00:22:51,880 --> 00:22:55,840 Speaker 1: talked about starvation and other episodes before, but you know, 392 00:22:56,160 --> 00:22:58,920 Speaker 1: your body uses up your fat stores and once that's gone, 393 00:22:58,920 --> 00:23:03,280 Speaker 1: once that's gone, it starts literally like eating at your muscle, 394 00:23:03,359 --> 00:23:07,960 Speaker 1: eating at your internal organs, and between you know, forty 395 00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:11,399 Speaker 1: and seventy something days, your your body is going to 396 00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:14,399 Speaker 1: finally succumb to organ failure and you're gonna die. Yeah. 397 00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:17,400 Speaker 1: Um yeah, once your once your body starts eating its 398 00:23:17,400 --> 00:23:19,800 Speaker 1: own organs, you're in trouble. And even if you managed 399 00:23:19,840 --> 00:23:25,359 Speaker 1: to survive the um, the hunger strike, um, you probably 400 00:23:25,400 --> 00:23:30,200 Speaker 1: have done some serious permanent damage to yourself. So so, 401 00:23:30,280 --> 00:23:32,879 Speaker 1: like we were saying, after Operation Demetrius, right, they rounded 402 00:23:32,960 --> 00:23:35,680 Speaker 1: up a bunch of suspected ira A members treated them 403 00:23:35,680 --> 00:23:39,160 Speaker 1: as prisoners of war. But at the same time they 404 00:23:39,160 --> 00:23:42,720 Speaker 1: were also busting other ira A leaders with legitimate and 405 00:23:42,840 --> 00:23:46,600 Speaker 1: legitimate criminal acts like gun possession things like that. So 406 00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:49,840 Speaker 1: you had two groups of i ra A prisoners being 407 00:23:49,880 --> 00:23:53,000 Speaker 1: treated separately, the ones in the interment camp being treated 408 00:23:53,040 --> 00:23:56,159 Speaker 1: like political prisoners or prisoners of war, and then the 409 00:23:56,200 --> 00:24:00,159 Speaker 1: ones in the jail being treated like common criminals. So 410 00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:02,439 Speaker 1: to kind of get the same treatment in the jail 411 00:24:02,720 --> 00:24:06,359 Speaker 1: as the political prisoners in the pow camps were given. 412 00:24:06,600 --> 00:24:08,760 Speaker 1: A guy named Billy McKee who was an i ra 413 00:24:08,800 --> 00:24:13,159 Speaker 1: A leader. Um, stage the first modern hunger strike in 414 00:24:13,240 --> 00:24:17,720 Speaker 1: nineteen seventy two, that's right, and um it was an 415 00:24:17,760 --> 00:24:22,280 Speaker 1: effective strategy for about four years. But this was right 416 00:24:22,359 --> 00:24:26,120 Speaker 1: at that time. I think it was VY six when 417 00:24:26,119 --> 00:24:29,320 Speaker 1: they had that shift from recognizing them as political prisoners 418 00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:33,560 Speaker 1: to uh just you know, criminal prisoners. So this was 419 00:24:33,760 --> 00:24:36,960 Speaker 1: pre that time and kind of led up to that shift. Yeah. 420 00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:41,560 Speaker 1: And then, um, so you've got the criminalization campaign being 421 00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:45,359 Speaker 1: carried out by the Brits and the Protestants in Northern 422 00:24:45,359 --> 00:24:49,800 Speaker 1: Ireland who were running the government. Um, and remember it 423 00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:53,240 Speaker 1: has a twofold effect, like you can no longer congregate, 424 00:24:53,280 --> 00:24:55,480 Speaker 1: you can no longer strategize. We're no longer going to 425 00:24:55,600 --> 00:24:59,760 Speaker 1: recognize your hierarchy of ranks, um, and just deal with 426 00:24:59,800 --> 00:25:03,359 Speaker 1: your leaders like you're just a common criminal now. And 427 00:25:03,400 --> 00:25:07,880 Speaker 1: it also turned the tables on the ira A prisoners, 428 00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:12,480 Speaker 1: who had formerly been treated with general respect by the guards. 429 00:25:13,040 --> 00:25:16,920 Speaker 1: The guards were let loose on these people, UM, and 430 00:25:16,960 --> 00:25:21,679 Speaker 1: it led to a really horrible time to be an 431 00:25:21,680 --> 00:25:24,840 Speaker 1: ira A prisoner because it's almost like there was pin 432 00:25:24,920 --> 00:25:28,800 Speaker 1: up rage or something among the guards and they just 433 00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:32,640 Speaker 1: released it on the prisoners. They poured scalding water on them, 434 00:25:32,920 --> 00:25:36,600 Speaker 1: they hosed them down with um cold water hoses in 435 00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:42,840 Speaker 1: winter time. UM. They they beat them regularly and routinely, 436 00:25:43,280 --> 00:25:45,800 Speaker 1: and again they were treated as common criminals. And uh, 437 00:25:46,200 --> 00:25:49,359 Speaker 1: it was a from what I can tell, from about 438 00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:54,360 Speaker 1: nineteen seventies, six to night one was about as bad 439 00:25:54,400 --> 00:25:56,640 Speaker 1: a time as you could be an ira A prisoner 440 00:25:57,119 --> 00:26:01,080 Speaker 1: as there ever was. Yeah, we'll take a break in 441 00:26:01,119 --> 00:26:02,879 Speaker 1: a sec but before we do, I do want to 442 00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:05,879 Speaker 1: mention the movie that I watched today because I figured 443 00:26:05,920 --> 00:26:10,800 Speaker 1: there was probably a movie about this. UM. Steve McQueen, 444 00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:14,240 Speaker 1: the director that did Twelve Years of Slave and shame 445 00:26:14,440 --> 00:26:18,680 Speaker 1: directed the movie, his first movie actually directed. Huh was 446 00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:22,920 Speaker 1: it an infomaniac? You watched? No? No, no, that wasn't him. 447 00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:26,119 Speaker 1: Oh wait was that that? No? That thin? Yeah, but 448 00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:29,639 Speaker 1: he did one where um Fossbender is a sex addict. Right, 449 00:26:29,720 --> 00:26:32,000 Speaker 1: that's shame, Okay, Shane, That's what I meant, is that 450 00:26:32,040 --> 00:26:35,919 Speaker 1: what you watched? No, no, no, that's not watched. You're like, 451 00:26:35,960 --> 00:26:40,040 Speaker 1: what when's the Hunger striking to start? Uh? It was 452 00:26:40,080 --> 00:26:42,119 Speaker 1: his first movie from two thousand and eight, also with 453 00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:45,320 Speaker 1: Michael Fassbender as Bobby Sands who will you know? Get 454 00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:47,920 Speaker 1: to after the Break, But it was called Hunger and 455 00:26:48,359 --> 00:26:51,639 Speaker 1: boy oh boy. Uh. I recommend it in one sense 456 00:26:51,680 --> 00:26:55,200 Speaker 1: and that it was a powerful film. Um, but it 457 00:26:55,280 --> 00:26:58,200 Speaker 1: was hard to watch, my friend, I can't imagine. It 458 00:26:58,280 --> 00:27:02,360 Speaker 1: was brutal. Um, it's a very The way he structures 459 00:27:02,359 --> 00:27:04,680 Speaker 1: it is sort of a kind of a non traditional narrative. 460 00:27:04,760 --> 00:27:07,399 Speaker 1: It's not like a traditional biopic that you would expect. 461 00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:11,200 Speaker 1: It's a very quiet, not a lot of dialogue. Um, 462 00:27:11,240 --> 00:27:13,320 Speaker 1: it's only ninety six minutes long, but it's a very 463 00:27:13,320 --> 00:27:16,520 Speaker 1: slow paced film. But just a really I mean, I 464 00:27:16,520 --> 00:27:20,520 Speaker 1: get the sense that it was a really realistic depiction 465 00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:23,200 Speaker 1: of those years that were you were talking about between 466 00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:27,240 Speaker 1: seventy six and eighty one, and these guys were just brutalized, man, 467 00:27:27,320 --> 00:27:30,320 Speaker 1: they were uh, Like they would call in the riot 468 00:27:30,359 --> 00:27:35,200 Speaker 1: squad and basically open the cells and throw their naked 469 00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:39,280 Speaker 1: bodies into the hallway and beat them with batons and 470 00:27:39,359 --> 00:27:43,080 Speaker 1: like like cut off their hair and their beards like 471 00:27:43,119 --> 00:27:46,119 Speaker 1: until they were bloody. And it was it was a 472 00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:48,720 Speaker 1: very very tough movie to watch. And at the Hunger 473 00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:52,000 Speaker 1: Strike part of it is only like the last twenty 474 00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:55,520 Speaker 1: minutes or so of the film. The whole first part 475 00:27:55,600 --> 00:27:58,840 Speaker 1: is just sort of the conditions in prison, uh, and 476 00:27:58,880 --> 00:28:01,600 Speaker 1: what's going on. So I recommend it on one hand, 477 00:28:01,680 --> 00:28:04,080 Speaker 1: it is not for the faint of heart. But we'll 478 00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:06,320 Speaker 1: kind of take a break now and we'll talk about 479 00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:09,600 Speaker 1: what else is going on in the prisons in right 480 00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:34,479 Speaker 1: after this, all right, so uh, in the film and 481 00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:37,080 Speaker 1: in real life, in fact, this is how the film 482 00:28:37,119 --> 00:28:41,720 Speaker 1: starts out. Is the first prisoner that comes in refuses 483 00:28:42,360 --> 00:28:46,560 Speaker 1: his prison clothes, and that's what started the blanket protests 484 00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:49,080 Speaker 1: when they were basically like, I'm not gonna wear your 485 00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:53,840 Speaker 1: common criminal outfit, and they basically said okay, well, you're 486 00:28:53,840 --> 00:28:58,240 Speaker 1: just gonna be naked seven for years, and here's your blanket, 487 00:28:58,280 --> 00:29:00,800 Speaker 1: and that's that's going to be your clothing. And that's 488 00:29:00,800 --> 00:29:03,720 Speaker 1: what they did. It's called the blanket protests. That first 489 00:29:03,760 --> 00:29:09,000 Speaker 1: prisoner under this new criminalization scheme said, you know, final, 490 00:29:09,160 --> 00:29:11,800 Speaker 1: just wear a blanket, and like, in very short order, 491 00:29:11,840 --> 00:29:15,080 Speaker 1: I think four hundred other Iria prisoners did the same thing. 492 00:29:15,120 --> 00:29:18,200 Speaker 1: It's called the blanket protest. They were all just naked 493 00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:21,040 Speaker 1: in the movie the whole time where they really have 494 00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:24,160 Speaker 1: you seen the new Kids in the Hall? I haven't yet. 495 00:29:24,320 --> 00:29:27,000 Speaker 1: I'm dying too though, the naked the whole time. No, 496 00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:30,800 Speaker 1: but in in some places and it's like, wow, it's 497 00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:34,160 Speaker 1: pretty hilarious. Yeah, And I have to say I think 498 00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:38,400 Speaker 1: they're they're better then they were in the first go round. 499 00:29:39,600 --> 00:29:43,040 Speaker 1: It's which is very surprising, but it really they I 500 00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:46,760 Speaker 1: laughed out loud more than I did that I remember 501 00:29:46,840 --> 00:29:50,760 Speaker 1: doing in an average Kids in the Hall episode. Okay, well, 502 00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:53,760 Speaker 1: I was a little actually worried to watch it for 503 00:29:53,840 --> 00:29:56,040 Speaker 1: fear of like, they're not, you know, going to be 504 00:29:56,080 --> 00:29:57,920 Speaker 1: as great anymore, and I would be it would taint 505 00:29:57,960 --> 00:30:01,240 Speaker 1: the original or something. No, definitely, and I'm never understood 506 00:30:01,280 --> 00:30:04,080 Speaker 1: that how does something like a follow up taint an original? 507 00:30:04,120 --> 00:30:07,920 Speaker 1: It does. It doesn't taint the original, it taints the 508 00:30:08,520 --> 00:30:13,600 Speaker 1: whole For me sometimes as a as a whole memory sense. Yeah, 509 00:30:13,680 --> 00:30:16,440 Speaker 1: that makes more sense for sure. But yeah, like those 510 00:30:16,480 --> 00:30:20,440 Speaker 1: originals aren't funny now, it's not like that. It's just like, oh, 511 00:30:20,440 --> 00:30:22,160 Speaker 1: like a boy. Then they went on to do something 512 00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:25,560 Speaker 1: not good. So, um, yeah, I wouldn't worry about that, 513 00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:27,160 Speaker 1: and I don't want to talk it up too much. 514 00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:29,760 Speaker 1: So you're expecting like, yeah, I don't want you to 515 00:30:29,800 --> 00:30:32,560 Speaker 1: be let down, but I don't think you will be fantastic. 516 00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:37,880 Speaker 1: Can't wait? Yeah, so um yeah, So this blanket protest, 517 00:30:37,920 --> 00:30:39,960 Speaker 1: I'm not sure how long it went on, but it 518 00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:42,760 Speaker 1: went on for quite a while, And it happened during 519 00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:46,200 Speaker 1: that period that I guess hunger covers um, which again 520 00:30:46,360 --> 00:30:48,280 Speaker 1: was about the worst time you could be an ira 521 00:30:48,280 --> 00:30:52,560 Speaker 1: A prisoner, because like they weren't doing this too common 522 00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:55,520 Speaker 1: criminals that were in the same prison, they were doing 523 00:30:55,520 --> 00:30:58,200 Speaker 1: it to the ira A members. So they went from 524 00:30:58,240 --> 00:31:01,800 Speaker 1: treating them as political listeners with a general amount of 525 00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:05,320 Speaker 1: respect and all of the freedoms that that that came with, 526 00:31:06,040 --> 00:31:10,040 Speaker 1: to regularly beating them and posing them down with cold 527 00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:14,440 Speaker 1: water in the winter and like taking their clothes and um. 528 00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:18,880 Speaker 1: Like that was the shift, the change in treatment, and 529 00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:21,479 Speaker 1: they were doing it to the ira A because they 530 00:31:21,520 --> 00:31:24,560 Speaker 1: were trying to send a message. The British government was like, 531 00:31:24,600 --> 00:31:25,920 Speaker 1: this is what we think of you. This is how 532 00:31:25,920 --> 00:31:28,280 Speaker 1: we're going to treat you. You should probably stop right 533 00:31:28,280 --> 00:31:31,040 Speaker 1: now because this is what you can expect if we 534 00:31:31,120 --> 00:31:33,720 Speaker 1: catch you from now on. That that like treat that 535 00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:38,000 Speaker 1: gentleman's agreement that we had before, that's gone. Yeah. So 536 00:31:38,040 --> 00:31:41,600 Speaker 1: in ninety eight, and the film kind of portrays the 537 00:31:41,800 --> 00:31:45,520 Speaker 1: Blanket protest is concurrent with the Dirty Protest. I'm not 538 00:31:45,560 --> 00:31:47,600 Speaker 1: sure if that's the case, because the Dirty Protest came 539 00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:51,560 Speaker 1: around in night this is when. And this was really 540 00:31:52,240 --> 00:31:54,160 Speaker 1: gross and hard to watch in the film. Oh I'm 541 00:31:54,200 --> 00:31:58,600 Speaker 1: sure Steve McQueen covered very well, I know, and believe 542 00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:00,800 Speaker 1: it or not, this makes me want to see Twelve 543 00:32:00,880 --> 00:32:04,800 Speaker 1: Years of Slave more because, like I knew it was tough, 544 00:32:04,840 --> 00:32:07,880 Speaker 1: but now that I've seen this, I know it's gonna 545 00:32:07,880 --> 00:32:09,680 Speaker 1: be hard to sit through again. And I'm still avoiding it, 546 00:32:09,720 --> 00:32:11,320 Speaker 1: but I want to see it more because i know 547 00:32:11,320 --> 00:32:13,800 Speaker 1: it's going to be like super realistic. I think so 548 00:32:13,880 --> 00:32:16,680 Speaker 1: hunger was your gateway drug to twelve years, I guess so. 549 00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:20,560 Speaker 1: But the dirty protest is when the prisoner said, all right, well, 550 00:32:20,600 --> 00:32:22,480 Speaker 1: if we're gonna be in here and you're not gonna 551 00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:25,720 Speaker 1: give us any rights, we're not gonna bathe. We're gonna 552 00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:28,760 Speaker 1: smear our feces all over the wall and our food 553 00:32:28,800 --> 00:32:32,360 Speaker 1: all over the wall, and we're gonna take our our 554 00:32:32,640 --> 00:32:36,440 Speaker 1: urine and feces and dump it under the uh the 555 00:32:36,480 --> 00:32:39,200 Speaker 1: cell door out into the hallway. So you have to 556 00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:43,440 Speaker 1: deal with it. And it was a very very it's 557 00:32:43,440 --> 00:32:47,320 Speaker 1: a disgusting movie to watch, but this really happened. So 558 00:32:47,360 --> 00:32:49,640 Speaker 1: one of the other things that happened to was that 559 00:32:49,720 --> 00:32:52,320 Speaker 1: among those ira A prisoners who were treated like this, 560 00:32:52,920 --> 00:32:56,840 Speaker 1: they formed a bond that has probably never been formed 561 00:32:57,600 --> 00:33:01,840 Speaker 1: in the history of humanity, because you know, no group 562 00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:05,800 Speaker 1: was ever necessarily subjected to that exactly like that, in 563 00:33:05,840 --> 00:33:08,479 Speaker 1: exactly the same way. So, I mean, I'm sure there 564 00:33:08,520 --> 00:33:12,560 Speaker 1: are other similar bonds among you know, enslaved and um 565 00:33:12,560 --> 00:33:16,800 Speaker 1: imprisoned populations. But because they were already fighting for a 566 00:33:16,840 --> 00:33:19,080 Speaker 1: cause that they believed in, and they were suffering for 567 00:33:19,160 --> 00:33:22,400 Speaker 1: a cause that they believed in, this stepped up treatment 568 00:33:23,360 --> 00:33:27,200 Speaker 1: just made that bond between them even stronger. So one 569 00:33:27,240 --> 00:33:29,880 Speaker 1: of the things that they they they that came out 570 00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:34,120 Speaker 1: of all this was um, what's called the five demands, 571 00:33:34,160 --> 00:33:36,800 Speaker 1: and it was basically, like you could summarize it as, 572 00:33:37,280 --> 00:33:40,440 Speaker 1: we want to be treated like political prisoners again. Yeah, 573 00:33:40,480 --> 00:33:43,360 Speaker 1: and they were all reasonable demands. One was again to 574 00:33:43,360 --> 00:33:46,719 Speaker 1: wear their own clothes. Uh. Number two was to not 575 00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:50,240 Speaker 1: have to go on work detail. Uh. They said they 576 00:33:50,280 --> 00:33:52,600 Speaker 1: wanted to be allowed a visit and a package in 577 00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:56,240 Speaker 1: a letter, one one and one per week. And in 578 00:33:56,280 --> 00:33:59,240 Speaker 1: the film they did get visitors and they were um 579 00:33:59,720 --> 00:34:02,760 Speaker 1: small uggling in all kinds of things under the table, 580 00:34:03,440 --> 00:34:06,920 Speaker 1: which is always a great part of any prison film. Uh. 581 00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:10,440 Speaker 1: They wanted the freedom to associate again and organized and congregate. 582 00:34:11,040 --> 00:34:14,799 Speaker 1: And then they wanted, um to revoke any of the 583 00:34:14,800 --> 00:34:19,440 Speaker 1: punishments that happened because of these protests that were already 584 00:34:19,480 --> 00:34:22,279 Speaker 1: in place. Yeah, and like you said, they're reasonable and 585 00:34:22,320 --> 00:34:25,080 Speaker 1: there's so reasonable. They almost seemed small like the iris 586 00:34:25,120 --> 00:34:27,200 Speaker 1: going through this and that's all they want. But again, remember, 587 00:34:27,520 --> 00:34:30,640 Speaker 1: being treated like a political prisoner has a lot to 588 00:34:30,680 --> 00:34:33,560 Speaker 1: do with optics in the general public, right, So that 589 00:34:33,640 --> 00:34:35,600 Speaker 1: makes a little more sense that that it was just 590 00:34:35,760 --> 00:34:38,799 Speaker 1: that is all they were asking for, um, and there 591 00:34:38,880 --> 00:34:41,759 Speaker 1: was They got a big assist by a woman named 592 00:34:41,760 --> 00:34:46,160 Speaker 1: Bernadette mccalis key UM, who had been a member of 593 00:34:46,239 --> 00:34:50,640 Speaker 1: Parliament Parliament, not the George Clinton version, but like the 594 00:34:50,680 --> 00:34:54,960 Speaker 1: original she played keyboards so um. So she was fairly 595 00:34:55,000 --> 00:34:57,880 Speaker 1: well known and she actually ran in the European Parliament 596 00:34:57,920 --> 00:35:01,319 Speaker 1: on a five demands platform in ninety seventy nine, and 597 00:35:01,360 --> 00:35:03,799 Speaker 1: there was an assassination attempt on her life from the 598 00:35:03,880 --> 00:35:07,480 Speaker 1: Ulster Defense Force, which was one of those paramilitary groups 599 00:35:07,520 --> 00:35:09,759 Speaker 1: that that began at the beginning of the troubles, but 600 00:35:09,800 --> 00:35:14,640 Speaker 1: they were a Protestant paramilitary group, um. And she survived 601 00:35:14,640 --> 00:35:17,200 Speaker 1: the assassination attempt and would show up to rallies and 602 00:35:17,280 --> 00:35:21,560 Speaker 1: protests on crutches. Um. But she did a really great 603 00:35:21,680 --> 00:35:27,319 Speaker 1: job at focusing public support and attention on what was 604 00:35:27,360 --> 00:35:29,520 Speaker 1: going on in the prisons and the protests that were 605 00:35:29,520 --> 00:35:31,960 Speaker 1: being carried out and why they were being carried out. 606 00:35:32,719 --> 00:35:36,440 Speaker 1: That's right. Uh. And following that the early nineteen eighties 607 00:35:36,760 --> 00:35:41,520 Speaker 1: when we saw sort of the two main modern hunger strikes. Uh. 608 00:35:41,520 --> 00:35:43,000 Speaker 1: That was the one in the seventies, but the two 609 00:35:43,040 --> 00:35:45,880 Speaker 1: in the eighties really I think got the most media attention. 610 00:35:46,560 --> 00:35:53,200 Speaker 1: Uh one began October and this was I believe seven 611 00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:57,200 Speaker 1: strikers quit eating again to try and get these five 612 00:35:57,239 --> 00:36:02,279 Speaker 1: demands carried through. Lasted fifty three a's and remember that's 613 00:36:02,360 --> 00:36:05,600 Speaker 1: right in the wheelhouse of where you Could die, and 614 00:36:06,040 --> 00:36:09,520 Speaker 1: h one named Sean McKenna was very near death. And 615 00:36:09,640 --> 00:36:12,680 Speaker 1: you know this whole time, Margaret Thatcher is you know, 616 00:36:12,760 --> 00:36:14,560 Speaker 1: she's known as the Iron Lady for a reason, and 617 00:36:14,600 --> 00:36:18,399 Speaker 1: she was very much a hard liner. And I think 618 00:36:18,440 --> 00:36:19,920 Speaker 1: it was a direct quote in the movie. You know, 619 00:36:19,960 --> 00:36:23,160 Speaker 1: she said basically that they're these terrorists are resorting to 620 00:36:23,840 --> 00:36:26,560 Speaker 1: a last resort, which is pity that we should have 621 00:36:26,600 --> 00:36:30,880 Speaker 1: pity on them. But basically that's not going to happen um. 622 00:36:30,920 --> 00:36:34,880 Speaker 1: But she was prepared to come to a settlement in 623 00:36:34,920 --> 00:36:37,799 Speaker 1: this case because of the optics. The strike did end 624 00:36:38,480 --> 00:36:41,120 Speaker 1: because they didn't want Sean McKinnon to die because that 625 00:36:41,160 --> 00:36:44,600 Speaker 1: would be really bad optics. So that was the nineteen 626 00:36:44,640 --> 00:36:48,399 Speaker 1: eighty strike, proceeding the one in March of eighty one. Yeah, 627 00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:52,000 Speaker 1: and the reason the March of eight one hunger strikes 628 00:36:52,000 --> 00:36:56,640 Speaker 1: started is because the Brits had agreed um verbally to 629 00:36:56,640 --> 00:36:59,160 Speaker 1: to giving in on the five demands and treating the 630 00:36:59,480 --> 00:37:02,600 Speaker 1: IRA prisoners as political prisoners again and then re naket 631 00:37:02,640 --> 00:37:05,439 Speaker 1: on it. They just didn't follow through. Uh, they never 632 00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:08,080 Speaker 1: got it in writing, basically is what it amounted to. 633 00:37:08,239 --> 00:37:12,040 Speaker 1: And so they staged an even bigger, even more public 634 00:37:12,200 --> 00:37:17,000 Speaker 1: hunger strike starting March one, and they, um it's I 635 00:37:17,040 --> 00:37:20,319 Speaker 1: think it involved at least twenty three hunger strikers, but 636 00:37:20,440 --> 00:37:23,440 Speaker 1: rather than all striking beginning at the same time like 637 00:37:23,520 --> 00:37:27,360 Speaker 1: they did in October, um, they staggered it five people 638 00:37:27,360 --> 00:37:30,120 Speaker 1: a week so that this hunger strike would be drawn 639 00:37:30,160 --> 00:37:34,880 Speaker 1: out even longer. Yeah, and that, um, that makes sense. 640 00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:38,440 Speaker 1: I also was wondering too during the film, like or 641 00:37:38,480 --> 00:37:42,520 Speaker 1: before the film, like why why can't they just squash 642 00:37:42,680 --> 00:37:45,759 Speaker 1: this in the press and not let any of this out, 643 00:37:45,800 --> 00:37:48,320 Speaker 1: because the hunger strike is only good if the public 644 00:37:48,360 --> 00:37:51,360 Speaker 1: knows about it. But they were still getting visitors that 645 00:37:51,520 --> 00:37:54,520 Speaker 1: throughout this whole time, So there were you know, Bobby 646 00:37:54,640 --> 00:37:59,440 Speaker 1: Sand's parents visited him in prison and saw like his 647 00:37:59,520 --> 00:38:03,560 Speaker 1: condition and as he was like slipping away, and uh, 648 00:38:03,600 --> 00:38:05,640 Speaker 1: you know, we mentioned Sands because he was very much 649 00:38:05,680 --> 00:38:08,759 Speaker 1: the sort of the main public face of this eight 650 00:38:08,880 --> 00:38:12,680 Speaker 1: one strike. Bobby stands. Actually Um was elected to the 651 00:38:12,680 --> 00:38:17,120 Speaker 1: British House of Commons while he was wasting away in prison. Um. 652 00:38:17,200 --> 00:38:19,359 Speaker 1: He obviously wasn't allowed a campaign or anything like that, 653 00:38:19,400 --> 00:38:22,200 Speaker 1: and couldn't have because he was, you know, slowly dying 654 00:38:22,239 --> 00:38:25,279 Speaker 1: of starvation. But this was a very big deal that 655 00:38:25,320 --> 00:38:28,880 Speaker 1: he was actually elected to the House of Commons. Yeah, 656 00:38:28,920 --> 00:38:32,040 Speaker 1: it was a big deal because it focused a tremendous 657 00:38:32,040 --> 00:38:35,200 Speaker 1: amount of public attention, Like every every paper in the 658 00:38:35,239 --> 00:38:38,080 Speaker 1: world was writing about how a guy in prison was 659 00:38:38,120 --> 00:38:41,839 Speaker 1: elected to parliament. Um, and and now that we're talking 660 00:38:41,880 --> 00:38:43,719 Speaker 1: about him, why is he in prison? And oh, he's 661 00:38:43,719 --> 00:38:45,520 Speaker 1: on a hunger strike? Why is he on a hunger strike? 662 00:38:45,600 --> 00:38:48,319 Speaker 1: So it was a really big pr COO for the 663 00:38:48,360 --> 00:38:52,120 Speaker 1: i r A. But then also politically speaking it had 664 00:38:52,200 --> 00:38:55,560 Speaker 1: like a UM it was a really big signal that 665 00:38:56,000 --> 00:38:57,920 Speaker 1: the only way he could have been elected was if 666 00:38:58,000 --> 00:39:01,480 Speaker 1: moderate Catholics, who normally just didn't go to the polls 667 00:39:02,400 --> 00:39:04,880 Speaker 1: because they didn't want to support the ira A, but 668 00:39:04,920 --> 00:39:09,280 Speaker 1: they also weren't about to vote for a Protestant candidate. Um, 669 00:39:09,400 --> 00:39:12,320 Speaker 1: they came out and they voted for the ira member. 670 00:39:12,400 --> 00:39:15,800 Speaker 1: So it showed that the average person in Northern Ireland, 671 00:39:15,880 --> 00:39:19,320 Speaker 1: the average Catholic was really upset with how the British 672 00:39:19,360 --> 00:39:22,360 Speaker 1: were treating the IRA and their their treatment of the 673 00:39:22,400 --> 00:39:24,920 Speaker 1: IRA was starting to backfire, and that it was generating 674 00:39:24,920 --> 00:39:28,319 Speaker 1: public sympathy and support that hadn't been there before. Yeah, 675 00:39:28,320 --> 00:39:29,960 Speaker 1: and he we should point out he was a young guy. 676 00:39:30,080 --> 00:39:33,040 Speaker 1: He was twenty six years old when he started this strike, 677 00:39:33,080 --> 00:39:36,520 Speaker 1: and I think he turned seven during the strike, so 678 00:39:37,360 --> 00:39:39,160 Speaker 1: he wasn't you know. I think I had heard of 679 00:39:39,200 --> 00:39:41,239 Speaker 1: Bobby Sands and I always just sort of pictured him 680 00:39:41,239 --> 00:39:44,600 Speaker 1: as maybe some guy in his forties for some reason. 681 00:39:45,600 --> 00:39:48,800 Speaker 1: But he was a very young guy. And uh, he finally, 682 00:39:49,000 --> 00:39:52,560 Speaker 1: you know, died of starvation on May five. Uh, this 683 00:39:52,640 --> 00:39:57,680 Speaker 1: was sixty six days into the strike. Riot start erupting 684 00:39:58,280 --> 00:40:02,680 Speaker 1: um all over the place and protest all over the world. Basically, 685 00:40:02,680 --> 00:40:06,280 Speaker 1: it was a very very public matter. And I remember 686 00:40:06,600 --> 00:40:08,920 Speaker 1: hearing about this when I was a kid, even though 687 00:40:08,960 --> 00:40:10,839 Speaker 1: I didn't understand what was going on. I remember hearing 688 00:40:10,880 --> 00:40:15,120 Speaker 1: about Bobby Sands dying. Oh yeah, wow. It was definitely 689 00:40:15,160 --> 00:40:17,680 Speaker 1: not in my wheelhouse at the time. I think I 690 00:40:17,719 --> 00:40:22,040 Speaker 1: was playing with a Tonka truck. Maybe. No. I remember 691 00:40:22,120 --> 00:40:24,160 Speaker 1: big news events like that, though I didn't, you know, 692 00:40:24,160 --> 00:40:26,000 Speaker 1: I remember John Lennon dying and I was like, he's 693 00:40:26,040 --> 00:40:30,040 Speaker 1: the guy with a round glasses. Yeah, that kind of thing, right. Um, 694 00:40:30,120 --> 00:40:33,879 Speaker 1: So when Sands died, that was a really really big deal. 695 00:40:34,040 --> 00:40:37,240 Speaker 1: Thousands and thousands of people turned out for his his funeral, 696 00:40:37,360 --> 00:40:41,560 Speaker 1: including very famously um Ira A paramilitary members who were 697 00:40:41,560 --> 00:40:47,400 Speaker 1: wearing like um Balaklava's basically um at the funeral, um 698 00:40:47,440 --> 00:40:51,240 Speaker 1: along the streets along his funeral procession. There were thousands 699 00:40:51,239 --> 00:40:53,640 Speaker 1: more people you know who turned out. So it showed 700 00:40:53,680 --> 00:40:57,239 Speaker 1: just how much like people supported the IRA, or at 701 00:40:57,280 --> 00:41:00,120 Speaker 1: the very least sympathized with the IRA, that they were 702 00:41:00,120 --> 00:41:03,880 Speaker 1: willing to die, to starve themselves to death for their cause. 703 00:41:04,280 --> 00:41:06,279 Speaker 1: And Bobby Saints knew he was gonna die. He said 704 00:41:06,320 --> 00:41:10,200 Speaker 1: towards the beginning he fully expected to die. Um and 705 00:41:10,280 --> 00:41:14,440 Speaker 1: he did. He put his He did what what I 706 00:41:14,680 --> 00:41:17,520 Speaker 1: would say most of us would never do. He starved 707 00:41:17,560 --> 00:41:19,759 Speaker 1: himself to death for the cause that he believed in, 708 00:41:20,160 --> 00:41:22,799 Speaker 1: to help the cause that he believed in, help to 709 00:41:22,880 --> 00:41:26,759 Speaker 1: basically serve as an inspiration to show this cause means 710 00:41:26,840 --> 00:41:30,080 Speaker 1: so much that me and some other people are willing 711 00:41:30,120 --> 00:41:34,279 Speaker 1: to die, to starve ourselves to brutal brutal death to 712 00:41:34,480 --> 00:41:37,760 Speaker 1: help um to help further the cost, to help generate 713 00:41:37,800 --> 00:41:42,400 Speaker 1: publicity for this cause. So by the way, Fastbender dropped 714 00:41:42,480 --> 00:41:45,919 Speaker 1: forty pounds for this role, so he kind of pulled 715 00:41:45,920 --> 00:41:49,560 Speaker 1: a Christian bale. It was. It was really like, uh, 716 00:41:49,760 --> 00:41:52,320 Speaker 1: tough to see that, you know, I mean, he's already 717 00:41:52,480 --> 00:41:56,000 Speaker 1: he's a pretty slight guy, even like under normal circumstances. 718 00:41:56,040 --> 00:41:58,400 Speaker 1: You know, he laid one seventy and dropped down to 719 00:41:58,440 --> 00:42:02,520 Speaker 1: one thirty. Uh. He apparently ate like nuts and berries 720 00:42:02,560 --> 00:42:05,600 Speaker 1: and stuff every day, and that was about it. So 721 00:42:05,880 --> 00:42:09,120 Speaker 1: Sans obviously was the main headline. But he was just 722 00:42:09,239 --> 00:42:13,000 Speaker 1: one of ten men that died in prison during these 723 00:42:13,080 --> 00:42:17,480 Speaker 1: hunger strikes. I think there were twenty three total. Thirteen survived, 724 00:42:18,200 --> 00:42:21,759 Speaker 1: and um Ed is keen to point out that, you know, 725 00:42:22,120 --> 00:42:25,120 Speaker 1: the reason that some of these men survived is you know, 726 00:42:25,160 --> 00:42:29,440 Speaker 1: eventually you're gonna lose consciousness and your family might step in, 727 00:42:30,000 --> 00:42:33,399 Speaker 1: and you know you're gonna get your medical nutrition intravenously. 728 00:42:33,480 --> 00:42:36,319 Speaker 1: In that case. That wasn't the case obviously with the 729 00:42:36,360 --> 00:42:39,239 Speaker 1: ten who did who did die in prison. But I 730 00:42:39,280 --> 00:42:41,120 Speaker 1: think in a lot of the cases of the thirteen 731 00:42:41,120 --> 00:42:44,640 Speaker 1: that survived was because they weren't able to make their 732 00:42:44,680 --> 00:42:48,440 Speaker 1: own choice and their family intervened, right, So this strike, 733 00:42:48,560 --> 00:42:51,239 Speaker 1: get this, this hunger strike, the second one went on 734 00:42:51,320 --> 00:42:57,520 Speaker 1: from March first to October three and claimed the lives 735 00:42:57,560 --> 00:43:02,600 Speaker 1: of ten men in people died during that brief period 736 00:43:02,640 --> 00:43:06,920 Speaker 1: of time from hunger from starving themselves. And it finally ended, 737 00:43:06,960 --> 00:43:09,799 Speaker 1: at least in part because one of the villains in 738 00:43:09,840 --> 00:43:12,080 Speaker 1: this story, Humphrey Atkins, who was at the time the 739 00:43:12,080 --> 00:43:15,560 Speaker 1: Secretary of State for Northern Ireland and was very much 740 00:43:15,560 --> 00:43:21,720 Speaker 1: aligned with the UM the no pity viewpoint of Margaret Thatcher. 741 00:43:22,280 --> 00:43:25,200 Speaker 1: He was replaced. He was replaced by somebody who wasn't 742 00:43:25,239 --> 00:43:27,719 Speaker 1: quite as much a hardliner, guy named James Prior. And 743 00:43:27,800 --> 00:43:30,120 Speaker 1: Prior is like, I want to put an end to this, 744 00:43:30,160 --> 00:43:33,960 Speaker 1: so let's start negotiating, and they ended the strike on 745 00:43:34,080 --> 00:43:38,839 Speaker 1: October three, again with ten people dead in that six 746 00:43:38,880 --> 00:43:42,160 Speaker 1: month period from starvation. Yeah, and it kind of you know, 747 00:43:42,400 --> 00:43:44,200 Speaker 1: depends on which side you're on and whether or not 748 00:43:44,239 --> 00:43:47,120 Speaker 1: you believe it was an effective thing, because they ended up. 749 00:43:47,920 --> 00:43:51,239 Speaker 1: UM it's sort of been uh an a roundabout way 750 00:43:51,360 --> 00:43:55,360 Speaker 1: getting a lot of the five demands met, but it 751 00:43:55,440 --> 00:43:59,280 Speaker 1: was never like an official declaration that you are political 752 00:43:59,320 --> 00:44:02,680 Speaker 1: prisoner and we're going to meet your five demands. It 753 00:44:02,880 --> 00:44:06,520 Speaker 1: just sort of it wasn't so you know, if you 754 00:44:06,560 --> 00:44:09,759 Speaker 1: look at it from the Thatcher side, they never gave in. 755 00:44:10,480 --> 00:44:12,360 Speaker 1: If you look at it from the ira A side, 756 00:44:12,400 --> 00:44:15,520 Speaker 1: they ended up in a roundabout way getting the same status. 757 00:44:16,239 --> 00:44:17,640 Speaker 1: But I think there were probably a lot of i 758 00:44:17,760 --> 00:44:20,839 Speaker 1: RA too that saw it as a defeat because they, 759 00:44:21,120 --> 00:44:25,120 Speaker 1: you know, weren't officially recognized as such. Right and we 760 00:44:25,120 --> 00:44:27,960 Speaker 1: should say going on outside the prison gates in in 761 00:44:28,200 --> 00:44:34,600 Speaker 1: Northern Ireland throughout this time, our car bombings, assassinations, protests, riots, um, 762 00:44:34,600 --> 00:44:36,920 Speaker 1: there are a lot of riots around Northern Ireland. And 763 00:44:37,000 --> 00:44:40,279 Speaker 1: when Bobby Sands died, um. And so it's not like 764 00:44:40,320 --> 00:44:42,040 Speaker 1: this is the only thing that ira A was doing. 765 00:44:42,080 --> 00:44:44,640 Speaker 1: We we just focused on this. But one of the 766 00:44:44,680 --> 00:44:48,000 Speaker 1: things that came out of these hunger strikes, um was 767 00:44:48,120 --> 00:44:53,279 Speaker 1: this idea, especially among the shinfan Um leadership, that they 768 00:44:53,440 --> 00:44:56,600 Speaker 1: they were never going to liberate Northern Ireland just through 769 00:44:56,800 --> 00:45:02,640 Speaker 1: the paramilitary, that they was going to require politics and 770 00:45:02,640 --> 00:45:06,920 Speaker 1: and um. This this showed, especially the election of Bobby 771 00:45:07,000 --> 00:45:10,279 Speaker 1: Sands to Parliament while he was in prison, that the 772 00:45:10,320 --> 00:45:15,440 Speaker 1: i RA was viable politically speaking. Yeah, it's gonna be 773 00:45:15,440 --> 00:45:19,200 Speaker 1: really interesting to see what happens moving forward. But that's 774 00:45:19,200 --> 00:45:21,799 Speaker 1: where they can kind of source that where they are 775 00:45:21,840 --> 00:45:26,799 Speaker 1: today is pretty much there from those hunger strikes in Yeah. 776 00:45:26,840 --> 00:45:30,960 Speaker 1: And I would love to hear from our listeners, uh 777 00:45:31,360 --> 00:45:34,440 Speaker 1: in Northern Ireland and in the Irish Republic, like what 778 00:45:34,520 --> 00:45:37,759 Speaker 1: they what their thoughts are of you know, because I 779 00:45:37,800 --> 00:45:41,520 Speaker 1: trust stuff you should know listeners generally as being uh 780 00:45:41,760 --> 00:45:45,960 Speaker 1: you know, alive in the world and having uh studied, 781 00:45:46,160 --> 00:45:50,239 Speaker 1: learned opinions, learned opinions. So I would love to hear 782 00:45:50,280 --> 00:45:53,080 Speaker 1: from both sides to see what they think. Um, I 783 00:45:53,120 --> 00:45:55,160 Speaker 1: want to know what the tenor is over there? Yeah? 784 00:45:55,520 --> 00:45:58,960 Speaker 1: Same here the word on the street, the word on 785 00:45:59,000 --> 00:46:04,799 Speaker 1: the cobblestone street. Uh, you got anything else? Uh? Now, 786 00:46:05,200 --> 00:46:07,359 Speaker 1: this is a good one, Chuck good pick. I'm glad 787 00:46:07,440 --> 00:46:10,680 Speaker 1: we did uh. And since I said I'm glad we 788 00:46:10,760 --> 00:46:13,279 Speaker 1: did it, it's time of course for a listener. Now, 789 00:46:17,040 --> 00:46:18,920 Speaker 1: by the way, did you know I'm way late on this, 790 00:46:18,960 --> 00:46:22,160 Speaker 1: but you know Bono's son as a band Uh no 791 00:46:23,440 --> 00:46:27,040 Speaker 1: sounds no. He has a band called Inhaler and I 792 00:46:27,160 --> 00:46:28,520 Speaker 1: just heard about it and listened to it. They put 793 00:46:28,560 --> 00:46:32,200 Speaker 1: out an album last summer, and it sounds exactly like 794 00:46:32,480 --> 00:46:35,959 Speaker 1: you two. Oh boy, he sounds just like his dad, 795 00:46:36,880 --> 00:46:40,719 Speaker 1: and it has the energy of like the early You two. 796 00:46:41,600 --> 00:46:45,000 Speaker 1: It's really good. I like it. Yeah, okay, good, Yeah, 797 00:46:45,040 --> 00:46:46,400 Speaker 1: I don't. I don't mean that in a in a 798 00:46:46,520 --> 00:46:49,680 Speaker 1: negative derivative way. You know, your your voice sounds like 799 00:46:49,840 --> 00:46:53,439 Speaker 1: somebody related to just by genetics. Yeah, I don't think 800 00:46:53,440 --> 00:46:55,600 Speaker 1: he's like, I want to sound like my dad, you know, sure, Yeah, 801 00:46:55,640 --> 00:46:57,640 Speaker 1: I don't think he's using auto team like that. I'm 802 00:46:57,640 --> 00:47:00,360 Speaker 1: just surprised he didn't go in like a totally different 803 00:47:00,400 --> 00:47:04,120 Speaker 1: direction musically, like maybe like folk folk rock or folk 804 00:47:04,200 --> 00:47:06,799 Speaker 1: progue or something. Yeah, I mean I did see that. 805 00:47:06,840 --> 00:47:09,240 Speaker 1: I read some reviews to some people kind of knocked 806 00:47:09,280 --> 00:47:12,799 Speaker 1: it for like going for that, you know, big stadium, 807 00:47:12,880 --> 00:47:16,560 Speaker 1: anthemic you two thing right out of the gate. But 808 00:47:17,320 --> 00:47:20,560 Speaker 1: you know, stuff, It is what I say, where the 809 00:47:20,600 --> 00:47:23,080 Speaker 1: sun don't shine. Let someone make the music they want 810 00:47:23,080 --> 00:47:25,120 Speaker 1: to make it good for them if they're getting huge. 811 00:47:25,120 --> 00:47:28,719 Speaker 1: I love it, yeah for sure. All right. So this 812 00:47:28,800 --> 00:47:32,080 Speaker 1: is just one of many squirrel emails we got. Who 813 00:47:32,239 --> 00:47:35,840 Speaker 1: knew that that was going to generate so much email? 814 00:47:37,280 --> 00:47:40,400 Speaker 1: Oh man, it's crazy, Like We got videos of people 815 00:47:40,440 --> 00:47:43,920 Speaker 1: scritching on little squirrels that they've been feeding. Squirrels crawling 816 00:47:43,960 --> 00:47:46,680 Speaker 1: up people's laps and up there sitting on their shoulder 817 00:47:46,800 --> 00:47:50,480 Speaker 1: like wild squirrels. It's pretty amazing. I'll like, white albino 818 00:47:50,600 --> 00:47:54,160 Speaker 1: squirrels are black squirrels. Where was it the head the 819 00:47:54,160 --> 00:47:58,200 Speaker 1: ones with the big long ears. I don't know, No, 820 00:47:58,360 --> 00:48:02,560 Speaker 1: I didn't see those those Toronto. Where is it Utah? 821 00:48:02,719 --> 00:48:05,960 Speaker 1: I'm guessing Utah. I can't remember. I feel bad now, 822 00:48:06,000 --> 00:48:08,960 Speaker 1: but yeah, they have these little sort of wizard long 823 00:48:09,880 --> 00:48:15,200 Speaker 1: ears that stick up. It's it's amazing wizard ears. Wizard 824 00:48:15,280 --> 00:48:19,560 Speaker 1: here's healf ears that wizards? Okay to me? Wizards? Right, yeah, 825 00:48:19,600 --> 00:48:22,600 Speaker 1: I don't think so, not according to Gary Guy. All right, 826 00:48:24,360 --> 00:48:26,440 Speaker 1: all right, so here we go. Um. In the recent 827 00:48:26,480 --> 00:48:28,680 Speaker 1: Squirrel episode, Chuck said, jommy kid that can get a 828 00:48:28,719 --> 00:48:33,000 Speaker 1: squirrel and hit it with a stick. And here's my story. 829 00:48:33,080 --> 00:48:35,319 Speaker 1: My wife and I were on a National Park road 830 00:48:35,360 --> 00:48:38,240 Speaker 1: trip in the Western US and while hiking in Zion, 831 00:48:38,800 --> 00:48:40,360 Speaker 1: I heard a commotion on the trail behind me. I 832 00:48:40,360 --> 00:48:42,839 Speaker 1: looked back. A couple was rushing over to the side 833 00:48:42,840 --> 00:48:45,440 Speaker 1: of the trail where there was a significant drop off 834 00:48:45,480 --> 00:48:48,360 Speaker 1: because their son had gone over the edge. It's terrifying 835 00:48:48,360 --> 00:48:51,520 Speaker 1: to witness, but thankfully the boy had been had gotten 836 00:48:51,520 --> 00:48:55,480 Speaker 1: caught on a tree and was not noticeably injured. Here's 837 00:48:55,480 --> 00:48:58,080 Speaker 1: how we got there. The boys spotted a squirrel in 838 00:48:58,080 --> 00:49:01,239 Speaker 1: the trail and hit it with a sticky. It came 839 00:49:01,280 --> 00:49:04,800 Speaker 1: after and screeched at the boy, startling him and causing 840 00:49:04,880 --> 00:49:08,279 Speaker 1: him to retreat straight over the ledge. Let this be 841 00:49:08,320 --> 00:49:10,960 Speaker 1: a teaching moment. Don't go after squirrels with sticks, or 842 00:49:11,000 --> 00:49:13,279 Speaker 1: you may be in for a nasty spill. And that 843 00:49:13,480 --> 00:49:18,239 Speaker 1: is from Read Stiller in Dallas, Texas, who is a 844 00:49:18,360 --> 00:49:20,840 Speaker 1: Texas and A and M grad and came to Athens 845 00:49:21,360 --> 00:49:24,279 Speaker 1: for the Aggies Bulldogs game a couple of years ago 846 00:49:24,719 --> 00:49:27,680 Speaker 1: and had a great time in Athens and said to 847 00:49:27,800 --> 00:49:30,160 Speaker 1: come out to College Station for a game and you 848 00:49:30,200 --> 00:49:32,720 Speaker 1: will have a great time as well. Very nice. Thanks 849 00:49:32,760 --> 00:49:35,840 Speaker 1: for the invite. We appreciate that. Who was that? That 850 00:49:36,040 --> 00:49:38,960 Speaker 1: is Read Stiller? Well thanks a lot, Read, We appreciate 851 00:49:39,000 --> 00:49:42,200 Speaker 1: that big time. That is a really good story. Actually, 852 00:49:42,719 --> 00:49:45,560 Speaker 1: um my evil part says if you want to get 853 00:49:45,560 --> 00:49:48,480 Speaker 1: in touch with us, like Read did, you can send 854 00:49:48,560 --> 00:49:52,120 Speaker 1: us an email to Stuff Podcast at iHeart Radio dot 855 00:49:52,120 --> 00:49:57,080 Speaker 1: com Stuff you Should Know is a production of I 856 00:49:57,160 --> 00:50:00,480 Speaker 1: heart Radio. For more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the 857 00:50:00,480 --> 00:50:03,520 Speaker 1: i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen 858 00:50:03,560 --> 00:50:11,120 Speaker 1: to your favorite shows. H m hm