1 00:00:08,245 --> 00:00:09,165 Speaker 1: School of Humans. 2 00:00:11,485 --> 00:00:20,365 Speaker 2: This episode discusses sensitive topics. Please listen with care. My 3 00:00:20,525 --> 00:00:24,845 Speaker 2: name is Miranda Hawkins. Welcome to the Deep Dark Woods, 4 00:00:25,405 --> 00:00:30,205 Speaker 2: a podcast about sex, violence and fairy tales. Today's story 5 00:00:30,645 --> 00:00:40,085 Speaker 2: is Cinderella. 6 00:00:41,085 --> 00:00:43,925 Speaker 3: When evening came, Cinderella wanted to leave, and the prince 7 00:00:44,005 --> 00:00:45,965 Speaker 3: tried to escort her, but she ran away from him 8 00:00:46,005 --> 00:00:49,325 Speaker 3: so quickly that he could not follow her. The prince, however, 9 00:00:49,765 --> 00:00:53,805 Speaker 3: had set a trap. He had the entire stairway smeared 10 00:00:53,845 --> 00:00:57,525 Speaker 3: with pitch. When she ran down the stairs, her left 11 00:00:57,605 --> 00:01:01,045 Speaker 3: slipper stuck in the pitch. The prince picked it up. 12 00:01:01,645 --> 00:01:07,005 Speaker 3: It was small and dainty and of pure cold. The 13 00:01:07,045 --> 00:01:08,925 Speaker 3: next morning he went with it to the man and 14 00:01:08,965 --> 00:01:12,085 Speaker 3: said to him, no one shall be my wife except 15 00:01:12,085 --> 00:01:15,565 Speaker 3: for the one whose foot fits in this golden shoe. 16 00:01:16,285 --> 00:01:18,485 Speaker 3: The two sisters were happy to hear this, for they 17 00:01:18,485 --> 00:01:22,005 Speaker 3: had pretty feet. With their mother standing by, the older 18 00:01:22,045 --> 00:01:24,045 Speaker 3: one took the shoe into her bedroom to try it on. 19 00:01:24,485 --> 00:01:26,125 Speaker 3: She could not get her big toe into it, for 20 00:01:26,205 --> 00:01:29,245 Speaker 3: the shoe was too small for her. Then her mother 21 00:01:29,285 --> 00:01:32,805 Speaker 3: gave her a knife and said, cut off your toe. 22 00:01:33,085 --> 00:01:34,885 Speaker 3: When you are queen, we will no longer have to 23 00:01:34,925 --> 00:01:39,925 Speaker 3: go on foot. The girl cut off her toe, forced 24 00:01:39,925 --> 00:01:42,445 Speaker 3: her foot into the shoe, swallowed the pane, and went 25 00:01:42,525 --> 00:01:45,485 Speaker 3: out to the prince. He took her on his horse 26 00:01:45,525 --> 00:01:49,165 Speaker 3: as his bride, and rode away with her. However, they 27 00:01:49,205 --> 00:01:53,205 Speaker 3: had to ride past the grave, and there on the 28 00:01:53,245 --> 00:01:56,125 Speaker 3: hazel tree sat two pigeons crying out. 29 00:01:56,525 --> 00:02:00,205 Speaker 4: Rickity gool, rickety goo, there's blood in the shoe. The 30 00:02:00,245 --> 00:02:02,045 Speaker 4: shoe is too tight. The bride is not right. 31 00:02:05,005 --> 00:02:06,885 Speaker 3: Then he looked at her foot and saw how the 32 00:02:06,925 --> 00:02:09,805 Speaker 3: blood was running from it. He turned his horse around 33 00:02:09,845 --> 00:02:12,885 Speaker 3: and took the false bride home again, saying that she 34 00:02:13,085 --> 00:02:15,125 Speaker 3: was not the right one, and that the other sister 35 00:02:15,125 --> 00:02:18,565 Speaker 3: should try on the shoe. She went into her bedroom 36 00:02:18,845 --> 00:02:20,805 Speaker 3: and got her toes in all right, but her heel 37 00:02:20,925 --> 00:02:24,285 Speaker 3: was too large. Then her mother gave her a knife 38 00:02:24,285 --> 00:02:26,805 Speaker 3: and said, cut a piece off your heel. When you 39 00:02:26,845 --> 00:02:28,925 Speaker 3: are queen, we will no longer have to go on foot. 40 00:02:30,205 --> 00:02:32,965 Speaker 3: The girl cut a piece off her heel, forced her 41 00:02:32,965 --> 00:02:35,565 Speaker 3: foot into the shoe, swallowed the pain, and went out 42 00:02:35,565 --> 00:02:38,405 Speaker 3: to the prince. He took her on his horse as 43 00:02:38,445 --> 00:02:41,605 Speaker 3: his bride, and rode away with her. When they passed 44 00:02:41,645 --> 00:02:44,085 Speaker 3: the hazel tree, the two pigeons were sitting in it, 45 00:02:44,405 --> 00:02:45,525 Speaker 3: and they cried out. 46 00:02:45,805 --> 00:02:50,045 Speaker 4: Rickety goo, rickity goo. There's blood in the shoe. The 47 00:02:50,085 --> 00:02:50,845 Speaker 4: shoe is too tight. 48 00:02:50,885 --> 00:02:51,805 Speaker 1: The bride is not right. 49 00:02:52,685 --> 00:02:54,485 Speaker 3: He looked down at her foot and saw how the 50 00:02:54,485 --> 00:02:56,765 Speaker 3: blood was running out of her shoe, and how it 51 00:02:56,805 --> 00:03:00,925 Speaker 3: had stained her white stockings all red. Then he turned 52 00:03:00,965 --> 00:03:03,485 Speaker 3: his horse around and took the false bride home. Again. 53 00:03:04,685 --> 00:03:06,565 Speaker 3: This is not the right one one either, he said. 54 00:03:07,325 --> 00:03:14,045 Speaker 3: Don't you have another daughter? No, said the man, there's 55 00:03:14,045 --> 00:03:18,085 Speaker 3: only a deformed little Cinderella from my first wife. But 56 00:03:18,245 --> 00:03:22,525 Speaker 3: she cannot possibly be the bride. The prince told him 57 00:03:22,565 --> 00:03:26,205 Speaker 3: to send her to him, but the mother answered, oh no, 58 00:03:26,485 --> 00:03:27,885 Speaker 3: she is much too dirty. 59 00:03:28,325 --> 00:03:29,325 Speaker 1: She cannot be seen. 60 00:03:30,645 --> 00:03:32,805 Speaker 3: But the prince insisted on it, and they had to 61 00:03:32,845 --> 00:03:34,045 Speaker 3: call Cinderella. 62 00:03:34,485 --> 00:03:35,805 Speaker 1: She first washed her. 63 00:03:35,725 --> 00:03:38,725 Speaker 3: Hands and face clean, and then went and bowed down 64 00:03:38,765 --> 00:03:41,605 Speaker 3: before the prince, who gave her the golden shoe. She 65 00:03:41,725 --> 00:03:43,845 Speaker 3: sat down on a stool, pulled her foot out of 66 00:03:43,845 --> 00:03:46,765 Speaker 3: the heavy wooden shoe, and put it into the slipper, 67 00:03:47,565 --> 00:03:54,125 Speaker 3: and it fit her perfectly. When she stood up, the 68 00:03:54,165 --> 00:03:57,045 Speaker 3: prince looked into her face and recognized the beautiful girl 69 00:03:57,045 --> 00:04:00,805 Speaker 3: who had danced with him. He cried out she is 70 00:04:00,925 --> 00:04:05,245 Speaker 3: my true bride. The stepmother and the two sisters were 71 00:04:05,285 --> 00:04:09,325 Speaker 3: horrified and turned pale with anger. The prince, however, took 72 00:04:09,405 --> 00:04:12,965 Speaker 3: Cinderella to his horse and rode away with her. As 73 00:04:13,005 --> 00:04:16,005 Speaker 3: they passed the hazel tree, the two white pigeons cried out. 74 00:04:15,925 --> 00:04:19,485 Speaker 4: Rickedy goo, rickedy goo. No blood in the shoe. 75 00:04:19,645 --> 00:04:21,965 Speaker 1: The shoe's not too tight. The bride is right. 76 00:04:23,925 --> 00:04:26,325 Speaker 3: After they cried this out, they both flew down and 77 00:04:26,405 --> 00:04:29,685 Speaker 3: lit on Cinderella's shoulders, one on the right, the other 78 00:04:29,725 --> 00:04:34,285 Speaker 3: on the left, and they remained sitting there. When the 79 00:04:34,325 --> 00:04:37,805 Speaker 3: wedding with the prince was held. The two false sisters came, 80 00:04:38,365 --> 00:04:41,285 Speaker 3: wanting to gain favor with Cinderella and to share her 81 00:04:41,285 --> 00:04:46,365 Speaker 3: good fortune. The oldest sister walked on their right side 82 00:04:46,445 --> 00:04:49,285 Speaker 3: and the younger on their left side, and the pigeons 83 00:04:49,325 --> 00:04:52,965 Speaker 3: pecked out one eye from each of them. Afterwards, as 84 00:04:53,005 --> 00:04:54,925 Speaker 3: they came out of the church, the older one was 85 00:04:54,965 --> 00:04:56,485 Speaker 3: on the left side and the younger one on the 86 00:04:56,525 --> 00:04:59,165 Speaker 3: right side, and then the pigeons pecked out the other 87 00:04:59,245 --> 00:05:02,925 Speaker 3: eye from each of them. And thus for their wickedness 88 00:05:02,965 --> 00:05:07,005 Speaker 3: and falsehood, they were punished with blue blindness as long 89 00:05:07,045 --> 00:05:07,645 Speaker 3: as they lived. 90 00:05:16,725 --> 00:05:17,765 Speaker 1: Once upon a time. 91 00:05:18,245 --> 00:05:21,365 Speaker 2: That's how a lot of fairy tales start. Once upon 92 00:05:21,405 --> 00:05:24,445 Speaker 2: a time, there was a prince, or once upon a 93 00:05:24,525 --> 00:05:27,605 Speaker 2: time and a land far away. You could argue it's 94 00:05:27,645 --> 00:05:30,565 Speaker 2: almost the perfect setup for a magical tale. 95 00:05:30,645 --> 00:05:31,685 Speaker 1: Before we get back to. 96 00:05:31,645 --> 00:05:35,005 Speaker 2: The story you just heard, there's another once upon a time. 97 00:05:35,125 --> 00:05:37,885 Speaker 2: I'd like to tell you one you might not be 98 00:05:38,005 --> 00:05:46,165 Speaker 2: as familiar with. Once upon a Time. There are two 99 00:05:46,205 --> 00:05:49,645 Speaker 2: brothers who lived during the midst of revolution and wars. 100 00:05:50,805 --> 00:05:54,285 Speaker 2: Worried their Germanic culture would be lost, they begin collecting 101 00:05:54,365 --> 00:05:58,845 Speaker 2: and documenting the oral tales of their people. Their first 102 00:05:58,845 --> 00:06:02,485 Speaker 2: collected works were published in two parts, the first in 103 00:06:02,525 --> 00:06:07,205 Speaker 2: eighteen twelve and the second in eighteen fifteen. Their books 104 00:06:07,245 --> 00:06:10,965 Speaker 2: became wildly popular, second only to the Bible. 105 00:06:12,445 --> 00:06:13,205 Speaker 1: The collection of. 106 00:06:13,165 --> 00:06:15,685 Speaker 2: Tales would pull the brothers and their siblings out from 107 00:06:15,725 --> 00:06:19,605 Speaker 2: the throes of poverty. Their desire to preserve their heritage 108 00:06:19,645 --> 00:06:22,805 Speaker 2: would launch them into generations of fame. This is the 109 00:06:22,925 --> 00:06:32,805 Speaker 2: legacy of the Brothers grim. My name is Miranda Hawkins. 110 00:06:33,205 --> 00:06:35,445 Speaker 2: I've been a journalist and producer for. 111 00:06:35,285 --> 00:06:36,885 Speaker 1: Almost a decade. 112 00:06:36,965 --> 00:06:40,685 Speaker 2: I've worked on shows like Monster, the Zodiac, Killer, Camppell 113 00:06:40,765 --> 00:06:44,925 Speaker 2: and Awaki and American Shadows. But long before I started 114 00:06:44,925 --> 00:06:47,885 Speaker 2: writing my own stories and working on others, I read. 115 00:06:48,285 --> 00:06:52,045 Speaker 2: I read everything in. My favorite stories were fairy tales. 116 00:06:53,485 --> 00:06:56,845 Speaker 2: Like many people, the stories of Cinderella and snow White 117 00:06:56,845 --> 00:06:59,685 Speaker 2: that I grew up with were the Disney versions. They 118 00:06:59,685 --> 00:07:03,765 Speaker 2: had clear, definitive lines of good versus evil, and always 119 00:07:03,845 --> 00:07:07,885 Speaker 2: had a happy ending. Everything came packaged with a nice, 120 00:07:08,045 --> 00:07:15,525 Speaker 2: tidy beough. I remember the first time I ran across 121 00:07:15,565 --> 00:07:19,805 Speaker 2: an original brother's grim tale. It was Cinderella. It was 122 00:07:19,925 --> 00:07:23,925 Speaker 2: much darker than i'd anticipated. Instead of the wicked stepsisters 123 00:07:24,045 --> 00:07:26,605 Speaker 2: trying to shove their foot into the glass slipper and 124 00:07:26,725 --> 00:07:31,405 Speaker 2: it's simply not working, they cut off parts of their feet. 125 00:07:32,405 --> 00:07:33,765 Speaker 1: I was instantly hooked. 126 00:07:34,285 --> 00:07:37,365 Speaker 2: I love all things dark and twisted, and here is 127 00:07:37,405 --> 00:07:38,325 Speaker 2: a story I grew. 128 00:07:38,245 --> 00:07:40,605 Speaker 1: Up on, but so much grittier. 129 00:07:41,525 --> 00:07:44,525 Speaker 2: These stories didn't quite have the happily ever after ending 130 00:07:44,645 --> 00:07:49,125 Speaker 2: you'd expect. Next thing I knew. I found myself falling 131 00:07:49,165 --> 00:07:52,285 Speaker 2: down the rabbit hole and reading all of the original tales, 132 00:07:52,765 --> 00:07:55,325 Speaker 2: And the more I read, the more I wanted to know. 133 00:07:56,285 --> 00:07:59,605 Speaker 2: Why were these stories told and re told? Why have 134 00:07:59,685 --> 00:08:03,405 Speaker 2: they endured for centuries? Where did they come from? And 135 00:08:03,605 --> 00:08:10,445 Speaker 2: how have they evolved to reflex the society's changes. I 136 00:08:10,525 --> 00:08:13,405 Speaker 2: believe that stories are the heart of life. They teach 137 00:08:13,485 --> 00:08:16,765 Speaker 2: us about ourselves in the world. So what can we 138 00:08:17,005 --> 00:08:19,325 Speaker 2: learn by taking a deeper dive into some of the 139 00:08:19,325 --> 00:08:24,005 Speaker 2: most well known tales that have lasted generations. Well, let's 140 00:08:24,045 --> 00:08:30,445 Speaker 2: find out. To find Cinderella stories and many folk tales, 141 00:08:30,685 --> 00:08:34,085 Speaker 2: we head to the Arn Thompson Uther Index. It's a 142 00:08:34,125 --> 00:08:38,565 Speaker 2: system folkloreists use to group and examine tales from different cultures. 143 00:08:39,645 --> 00:08:42,765 Speaker 2: Since there are so many stories with similar traits, the 144 00:08:42,805 --> 00:08:47,405 Speaker 2: system categorizes everything by plot. There are three men to 145 00:08:47,485 --> 00:08:52,165 Speaker 2: think for the ATU Index, Auntie Arn of Finland, Stif 146 00:08:52,285 --> 00:08:56,885 Speaker 2: Thompson of the US, and Hans Jorg Uther of Germany. 147 00:08:57,365 --> 00:09:01,645 Speaker 2: Arn began collecting and documenting all Scandinavian folklore and published 148 00:09:01,645 --> 00:09:06,525 Speaker 2: his first findings in nineteen ten. The Thompson translated the 149 00:09:06,525 --> 00:09:09,485 Speaker 2: index to English and added tales from his corner of 150 00:09:09,525 --> 00:09:14,325 Speaker 2: the world. Finally, Uther updated and added another two hundred 151 00:09:14,365 --> 00:09:19,245 Speaker 2: and fifty categories and subcategories. Uther also shifted titles to 152 00:09:19,325 --> 00:09:23,725 Speaker 2: make the index less sexist. For example, the tale of 153 00:09:23,765 --> 00:09:27,165 Speaker 2: a sister saving her seven brothers after they'd been transformed 154 00:09:27,165 --> 00:09:30,925 Speaker 2: into swans or another type of bird changed from the 155 00:09:31,005 --> 00:09:34,965 Speaker 2: brothers who returned into birds two the maiden who rescues 156 00:09:35,005 --> 00:09:40,685 Speaker 2: her brothers. Similar to the Dewey decimal system used in libraries, 157 00:09:40,925 --> 00:09:44,485 Speaker 2: the ATU index has its own system to track down stories. 158 00:09:45,045 --> 00:09:48,925 Speaker 2: Starting with ATU followed by a number and a title. 159 00:09:50,285 --> 00:09:54,325 Speaker 2: The ATU index breaks collected tales into seven main types, 160 00:09:54,805 --> 00:10:00,405 Speaker 2: animal tales, tales of magic, religious tales, realistic tales, anecdotes 161 00:10:00,445 --> 00:10:05,245 Speaker 2: and jokes, formula tales, and my favorite category name tales 162 00:10:05,285 --> 00:10:10,285 Speaker 2: of the stupid ogre giant devil. From those seven major 163 00:10:10,325 --> 00:10:14,685 Speaker 2: tale types, it breaks down into smaller tale types. For example, 164 00:10:15,125 --> 00:10:19,605 Speaker 2: today's story is found under tales of magic subtale type 165 00:10:19,965 --> 00:10:24,565 Speaker 2: the persecuted heroine. And as a quick side note, many 166 00:10:24,605 --> 00:10:27,965 Speaker 2: of the stories in the ATU index originate in Europe 167 00:10:28,005 --> 00:10:31,845 Speaker 2: and the western part of Asia. Folklorets across the world 168 00:10:31,925 --> 00:10:35,965 Speaker 2: are trying to fix us to include stories missing from Africa, Asia, 169 00:10:36,005 --> 00:10:40,325 Speaker 2: and South America. One article I've found says that even 170 00:10:40,365 --> 00:10:43,965 Speaker 2: the well known Arabian night stories might not be included either. 171 00:10:45,645 --> 00:10:48,645 Speaker 2: As much as these stories are categorized, studied, and told 172 00:10:48,685 --> 00:10:49,325 Speaker 2: and retold. 173 00:10:49,925 --> 00:10:55,045 Speaker 1: Let's first ask what makes a folk tale of folk tale? 174 00:11:02,285 --> 00:11:04,765 Speaker 2: I think One of my favorite aspects of making the 175 00:11:04,845 --> 00:11:08,925 Speaker 2: show was learning about folklorists, people who study fairy tales 176 00:11:09,005 --> 00:11:12,925 Speaker 2: and folklore for a living. Throughout the series will be 177 00:11:12,965 --> 00:11:16,965 Speaker 2: hearing from different people in the field. Every person will 178 00:11:17,005 --> 00:11:20,365 Speaker 2: have their own perspective, as there's no definitive takeaway on 179 00:11:20,485 --> 00:11:25,445 Speaker 2: stories themselves. Doctor Lynn McNeil is a professor of folklore 180 00:11:25,525 --> 00:11:28,645 Speaker 2: at Utah State University in the English Apartment. She has 181 00:11:28,725 --> 00:11:32,805 Speaker 2: also made appearances on national television to discuss folklore and 182 00:11:32,925 --> 00:11:36,245 Speaker 2: is the author of several books. And she said, what 183 00:11:36,365 --> 00:11:40,365 Speaker 2: is important to know about folklore is this fundamental truth. 184 00:11:41,245 --> 00:11:44,485 Speaker 5: It's meant to change over time. It's meant to change 185 00:11:44,565 --> 00:11:45,645 Speaker 5: to stay relevant. 186 00:11:46,365 --> 00:11:50,205 Speaker 2: Here's how she explained folk tales to me. Folklore is 187 00:11:50,445 --> 00:11:53,605 Speaker 2: all cultural expression that is shared through word of mouth. 188 00:11:54,205 --> 00:11:57,245 Speaker 2: So folk tales are the stories that are learned and 189 00:11:57,365 --> 00:12:01,845 Speaker 2: shared and generated collectively from person to person through time 190 00:12:02,005 --> 00:12:05,205 Speaker 2: and plays. Folk tales adapt to the environment they are 191 00:12:05,245 --> 00:12:08,165 Speaker 2: being told in, so that means we can use these 192 00:12:08,245 --> 00:12:13,525 Speaker 2: tales as a barometer for cultural difference, cultural similarity, and cultural. 193 00:12:13,165 --> 00:12:18,045 Speaker 5: Change, invoking a sense that we're talking back to something, 194 00:12:18,085 --> 00:12:22,885 Speaker 5: we're responding to something prior. And of course, scholars of 195 00:12:22,925 --> 00:12:25,125 Speaker 5: literature and film would say the same thing. Any new 196 00:12:25,165 --> 00:12:28,645 Speaker 5: contemporary film is responding to its predecessors, to the films 197 00:12:28,645 --> 00:12:31,765 Speaker 5: that came before it, But in fairy tales, we're doing 198 00:12:31,845 --> 00:12:35,125 Speaker 5: it in this really specific and direct way, because it's 199 00:12:35,125 --> 00:12:38,645 Speaker 5: a genre that by definition adapts and evolves. 200 00:12:41,725 --> 00:12:45,965 Speaker 2: So what about Cinderella or, as she was originally called 201 00:12:45,965 --> 00:12:50,285 Speaker 2: in The Brother's grim Tail, Ashen Poodle, which roughly translates 202 00:12:50,365 --> 00:12:54,725 Speaker 2: to ashen dirty girl. What you heard at the beginning 203 00:12:54,765 --> 00:12:57,645 Speaker 2: of the episode was the second half of the original 204 00:12:57,685 --> 00:13:01,405 Speaker 2: Brother's grim Tail, and in their version, the father was 205 00:13:01,485 --> 00:13:05,445 Speaker 2: still alive and stood by while the stepmother in steps 206 00:13:05,605 --> 00:13:09,565 Speaker 2: sisters treated Cinderella as they did before. 207 00:13:09,645 --> 00:13:10,125 Speaker 1: One of his. 208 00:13:10,165 --> 00:13:13,605 Speaker 2: Travels, the father asked his three daughters what gifts they 209 00:13:13,605 --> 00:13:18,085 Speaker 2: would like. The two stepsisters of Corus wanted clothes and jewelry, 210 00:13:18,405 --> 00:13:22,125 Speaker 2: but Cinderella one of the first twig that brushed her 211 00:13:22,125 --> 00:13:25,885 Speaker 2: father's hat on his way home. Cinderella then plants a 212 00:13:25,925 --> 00:13:28,965 Speaker 2: twig at her mother's grave. The twig is watered by 213 00:13:29,005 --> 00:13:32,805 Speaker 2: Cinderella's tears and ends up growing into a beautiful tree. 214 00:13:33,885 --> 00:13:35,645 Speaker 2: When she is not allowed to go to the ball, 215 00:13:36,005 --> 00:13:38,605 Speaker 2: Cinderella goes to the tree to ask for a gown 216 00:13:38,645 --> 00:13:40,925 Speaker 2: and shoes so she can make it to the dance. 217 00:13:41,685 --> 00:13:44,805 Speaker 2: Each time the birds granted her wish, she dashed off 218 00:13:44,805 --> 00:13:47,605 Speaker 2: to dance with the prince, and each time the prince 219 00:13:47,725 --> 00:13:52,805 Speaker 2: was smitten and dance with only Cinderella. Every night Cinderella returned, 220 00:13:53,005 --> 00:13:56,005 Speaker 2: she would give back the gown and slippers. That was 221 00:13:56,285 --> 00:13:59,405 Speaker 2: until the third night, when she lost one of her shoes. 222 00:13:59,845 --> 00:14:03,685 Speaker 2: It wasn't glass, though, it was gold. And now we've 223 00:14:03,725 --> 00:14:06,845 Speaker 2: come full circle to the brother's grim story of Cinderella. 224 00:14:08,205 --> 00:14:13,085 Speaker 2: As for where the story originated from, that's another question entirely. 225 00:14:14,685 --> 00:14:18,125 Speaker 5: Did it begin in China? Did it begin in Egypt 226 00:14:18,565 --> 00:14:22,805 Speaker 5: and move as humans moved and shared their stories through 227 00:14:22,845 --> 00:14:25,445 Speaker 5: time and space all the way up until now. Or 228 00:14:26,325 --> 00:14:30,765 Speaker 5: are those story elements a persecuted young woman, a mechanism 229 00:14:30,765 --> 00:14:34,845 Speaker 5: of recognition, a deceased mother helping her child from the afterlife. 230 00:14:35,205 --> 00:14:40,525 Speaker 5: Are those story elements so basic to human experience that 231 00:14:40,525 --> 00:14:45,085 Speaker 5: that story, or something resembling it cropped up in multiple places, 232 00:14:45,485 --> 00:14:48,325 Speaker 5: all at once or at different times, and grew from 233 00:14:48,365 --> 00:14:50,685 Speaker 5: there And the truth is we don't know. 234 00:14:51,685 --> 00:14:55,285 Speaker 2: Initially, my research showed that the first recorded version of 235 00:14:55,325 --> 00:14:59,645 Speaker 2: Cinderella dates back more than two thousand years. It was 236 00:14:59,685 --> 00:15:03,965 Speaker 2: documented by Herodotus. He was a Greek historian and geographer 237 00:15:04,125 --> 00:15:06,765 Speaker 2: who is best known for writing histories of the Greco 238 00:15:06,845 --> 00:15:11,605 Speaker 2: Persian Wars. But like many of us, Herodotus couldn't resist 239 00:15:11,725 --> 00:15:15,285 Speaker 2: a good tale. He was even accused of making up 240 00:15:15,325 --> 00:15:21,885 Speaker 2: stories for entertainment. In the Herodotus version, Cinderella was named Rodopus, 241 00:15:22,245 --> 00:15:26,525 Speaker 2: which means either rosy cheeked or rosy eyed. To be clear, 242 00:15:26,885 --> 00:15:32,565 Speaker 2: rosy idrifers having sparkly eyes, not bloodshot. Rhodopus is then 243 00:15:32,605 --> 00:15:35,485 Speaker 2: again mentioned at a later date by the Greek geographer 244 00:15:35,565 --> 00:15:39,165 Speaker 2: Strabo of Amasia. He is the one who is credited 245 00:15:39,445 --> 00:15:43,445 Speaker 2: with first writing the tale down Rhodapus was kidnapped from 246 00:15:43,445 --> 00:15:47,165 Speaker 2: her home in Greece and sold as a slave in Egypt. There, 247 00:15:47,285 --> 00:15:49,725 Speaker 2: the other slave girls made fun of her because she 248 00:15:49,885 --> 00:15:50,565 Speaker 2: looked different. 249 00:15:51,285 --> 00:15:52,045 Speaker 1: Where the other. 250 00:15:51,925 --> 00:15:56,245 Speaker 2: Women had bronze skin and straight, dark hair, Rhodipus was 251 00:15:56,365 --> 00:16:02,685 Speaker 2: light skinned with golden curls. At night, she would go 252 00:16:02,725 --> 00:16:04,685 Speaker 2: to the banks of the river and dance for her 253 00:16:04,725 --> 00:16:08,725 Speaker 2: animal friends. On one such night, an old man spotted 254 00:16:08,765 --> 00:16:12,125 Speaker 2: her dancing and thought she deserved a beautiful pair of shoes, 255 00:16:13,085 --> 00:16:16,525 Speaker 2: so he had gold sandals made and delivered to Rhodopus. 256 00:16:17,645 --> 00:16:20,845 Speaker 2: Not long after, a falcon steals one of her sandals, 257 00:16:20,965 --> 00:16:24,165 Speaker 2: flies across a Mediterranean and drops it in the lap 258 00:16:24,205 --> 00:16:27,605 Speaker 2: of an Egyptian pharaoh. The pharaoh takes us as a 259 00:16:27,645 --> 00:16:30,765 Speaker 2: sign from the gods and crosses land and sea to 260 00:16:30,765 --> 00:16:31,765 Speaker 2: find the owner. 261 00:16:31,485 --> 00:16:32,725 Speaker 1: Of the shoe. 262 00:16:32,805 --> 00:16:37,085 Speaker 2: When the pharaoh finally finds Rhodapus, they get married. There's 263 00:16:37,125 --> 00:16:39,965 Speaker 2: a theory that Rhodapus is based on a true story, 264 00:16:40,525 --> 00:16:44,365 Speaker 2: but in that story, Rhodopus became a well regarded courtesan 265 00:16:44,605 --> 00:16:46,605 Speaker 2: who tricked a man to fall in love with her 266 00:16:46,685 --> 00:16:48,205 Speaker 2: and buy her freedom. 267 00:16:48,565 --> 00:16:50,245 Speaker 1: When he did, she left. 268 00:16:50,085 --> 00:16:53,965 Speaker 2: Him, and his sister was furious, and supposedly that man's 269 00:16:54,005 --> 00:17:01,765 Speaker 2: sister was none other than the famous Sapphos. However, when 270 00:17:01,845 --> 00:17:05,045 Speaker 2: historians sit with the timeline of the story of Rhodapus 271 00:17:05,125 --> 00:17:10,285 Speaker 2: and this courtisan, it doesn't quite add up. Another early 272 00:17:10,405 --> 00:17:13,445 Speaker 2: version of Cinderella is about a young Chinese girl named 273 00:17:13,525 --> 00:17:17,525 Speaker 2: Yashen that was written sometime between six hundred and nine 274 00:17:17,605 --> 00:17:24,765 Speaker 2: hundred eighty during the Tong dynasty. Yashen's father was a 275 00:17:24,805 --> 00:17:28,165 Speaker 2: cave chief who had two wives, and each wife bore 276 00:17:28,205 --> 00:17:31,845 Speaker 2: him a daughter, not long after Yashin was born, her 277 00:17:31,885 --> 00:17:35,645 Speaker 2: mother died, and soon after so did her father, the chief. 278 00:17:37,085 --> 00:17:40,725 Speaker 2: The stepmother was insanely jealous of her new stepdaughter's beauty 279 00:17:40,805 --> 00:17:44,765 Speaker 2: and kindness. Because of this, the stepmother would give Yashin 280 00:17:44,925 --> 00:17:49,685 Speaker 2: the most difficult chores. Yashin's only friend was a golden fish. 281 00:17:50,445 --> 00:17:53,725 Speaker 2: The stepmother ended up finding out about the fish and 282 00:17:53,845 --> 00:17:54,445 Speaker 2: killing it. 283 00:17:54,965 --> 00:17:57,845 Speaker 1: Yashin was devastated, but an old. 284 00:17:57,685 --> 00:18:00,725 Speaker 2: Man told Yashin to keep the bones and make wishes 285 00:18:00,765 --> 00:18:04,965 Speaker 2: with them when she most needed it. When the Spring 286 00:18:05,045 --> 00:18:07,845 Speaker 2: festival came up, a time when people hoped to meet 287 00:18:07,885 --> 00:18:11,365 Speaker 2: who they were going to marry, Yashen's stepmother told her 288 00:18:11,525 --> 00:18:16,085 Speaker 2: to stay home. So Yashin used her magical fishbones to 289 00:18:16,125 --> 00:18:19,525 Speaker 2: turn her rags into a beautiful gown, a cloak with 290 00:18:19,685 --> 00:18:24,205 Speaker 2: kingfisher feathers, and slippers woven in golden threads that looked 291 00:18:24,205 --> 00:18:28,125 Speaker 2: like fish scales. But like most stories, there was a 292 00:18:28,165 --> 00:18:34,445 Speaker 2: warning don't lose the slippers. Unfortunately, in order to avoid 293 00:18:34,485 --> 00:18:37,325 Speaker 2: being caught by her stepmother, Yashin had to flee the 294 00:18:37,365 --> 00:18:42,925 Speaker 2: festival and lost a slipper Immediately, her gown and cloak 295 00:18:43,005 --> 00:18:45,765 Speaker 2: returned to rags, and when she got back to her home. 296 00:18:46,045 --> 00:18:51,485 Speaker 2: The spirit of the fishbones was gone, although the slipper remained. 297 00:18:51,845 --> 00:18:57,685 Speaker 2: Yashin had lost her only friend. Later, a villager found 298 00:18:57,725 --> 00:19:00,245 Speaker 2: the lost slipper and sold it to a merchant, who 299 00:19:00,325 --> 00:19:03,485 Speaker 2: then took it to the king. The king marveled at 300 00:19:03,485 --> 00:19:06,685 Speaker 2: the slipper and realized he lust meet the woman it 301 00:19:06,725 --> 00:19:12,085 Speaker 2: belonged to. He realized it would take too long to 302 00:19:12,125 --> 00:19:15,605 Speaker 2: search for her. Instead, he had the slipper put on 303 00:19:15,685 --> 00:19:18,245 Speaker 2: display at the place where it was found for maidens 304 00:19:18,285 --> 00:19:18,885 Speaker 2: to try it on. 305 00:19:19,845 --> 00:19:20,885 Speaker 1: He waited all. 306 00:19:20,805 --> 00:19:26,765 Speaker 2: Day, but it fit no one, including yashen stepmother and stepsister. Then, 307 00:19:27,205 --> 00:19:30,165 Speaker 2: when the night was in its latest hour, the king 308 00:19:30,285 --> 00:19:33,805 Speaker 2: spotted yea Shen taking the slipper. At first, he thought 309 00:19:33,845 --> 00:19:36,485 Speaker 2: she was stealing it, until he saw how beautiful and 310 00:19:36,565 --> 00:19:39,885 Speaker 2: kind her face was. The king cracked her down and 311 00:19:39,925 --> 00:19:46,365 Speaker 2: married Yashen. As for the stepmother and stepsister, they were 312 00:19:46,405 --> 00:19:49,645 Speaker 2: forced to stay home in the caves, and later it 313 00:19:49,685 --> 00:19:52,485 Speaker 2: was said they were crushed to death by flying stones. 314 00:20:00,685 --> 00:20:06,485 Speaker 2: Fish are considered a symbol of prosperity. During this era, 315 00:20:06,725 --> 00:20:10,085 Speaker 2: people began keeping karp and a mutation change to carp 316 00:20:10,125 --> 00:20:14,085 Speaker 2: scales from silver to gold. Then people began to breed 317 00:20:14,125 --> 00:20:18,125 Speaker 2: the fish for the Golden Scales. An argument could be 318 00:20:18,205 --> 00:20:21,525 Speaker 2: made that not only was a fish alluding to Yushin's 319 00:20:21,565 --> 00:20:25,445 Speaker 2: prosperity in marrying the king, but also the prosperity of 320 00:20:25,485 --> 00:20:30,285 Speaker 2: the dynasty leading up to. 321 00:20:30,205 --> 00:20:31,245 Speaker 1: The Tong dynasty. 322 00:20:31,605 --> 00:20:34,445 Speaker 2: The collapse of the Han dynasty in two twenty a 323 00:20:34,645 --> 00:20:39,125 Speaker 2: d had left China divided for three hundred years. The 324 00:20:39,165 --> 00:20:43,285 Speaker 2: Sui dynasty then unified China, paving the way for the 325 00:20:43,325 --> 00:20:47,885 Speaker 2: Tong dynasty. Tong is considered one of the greatest empires, 326 00:20:48,405 --> 00:20:51,125 Speaker 2: not only because it was the Golden Age of arts 327 00:20:51,165 --> 00:20:54,565 Speaker 2: and culture, but also because it was a dynasty ruled 328 00:20:54,565 --> 00:20:59,885 Speaker 2: by benevolent leaders with economic growth and successful political endeavors. 329 00:21:03,125 --> 00:21:06,445 Speaker 2: It wasn't until the seventeenth century that the broad outlines 330 00:21:06,485 --> 00:21:10,405 Speaker 2: of the version of Cinderella we're most familiar with originated. 331 00:21:11,365 --> 00:21:15,085 Speaker 2: This time the story would be from France. When I 332 00:21:15,165 --> 00:21:18,685 Speaker 2: first started looking into Cinderella, I thought the Disney version 333 00:21:18,805 --> 00:21:21,565 Speaker 2: I grew up with was based on the Brother's Grim, 334 00:21:21,725 --> 00:21:25,685 Speaker 2: But it's not Disney pulled from the sixteen ninety seven 335 00:21:25,765 --> 00:21:29,565 Speaker 2: French story The Little Glass Slipper, written by Charles Perraut. 336 00:21:30,605 --> 00:21:32,925 Speaker 1: Pireaut had created his own spin on. 337 00:21:33,005 --> 00:21:38,525 Speaker 2: A darker Italian story of a woman named Zizzola. Zazzola, 338 00:21:38,845 --> 00:21:41,005 Speaker 2: or as a title of the story, is called The 339 00:21:41,085 --> 00:21:45,525 Speaker 2: Cat Cinderella, was written by John Battista Bazille in sixteen 340 00:21:45,605 --> 00:21:50,205 Speaker 2: thirty four. In The Cat Cinderella, Zazzola already has a 341 00:21:50,205 --> 00:21:53,005 Speaker 2: wicked stepmother who is married to her father, who is 342 00:21:53,045 --> 00:21:57,685 Speaker 2: a prince. Zizzola's governess convinces a girl to kill her 343 00:21:57,725 --> 00:22:03,085 Speaker 2: stepmother so the governess can marry the prince. Instead, Zizzola 344 00:22:03,205 --> 00:22:06,485 Speaker 2: murders her stepmother by dropping the life of the largest 345 00:22:06,525 --> 00:22:08,445 Speaker 2: dress trunk on the woman's neck. 346 00:22:08,325 --> 00:22:09,245 Speaker 1: And breaking it. 347 00:22:10,245 --> 00:22:13,525 Speaker 2: After she tricks her father into marrying the governess. 348 00:22:14,325 --> 00:22:15,925 Speaker 1: For a few days, things. 349 00:22:15,685 --> 00:22:18,725 Speaker 2: Are well, and during this time a dove from the 350 00:22:18,765 --> 00:22:22,405 Speaker 2: Island of the Fairies visits Zola and tells her that 351 00:22:22,485 --> 00:22:25,525 Speaker 2: if she ever needs anything, just come to the fairies 352 00:22:25,565 --> 00:22:36,045 Speaker 2: for help. Well, it wasn't long until the governess turned 353 00:22:36,045 --> 00:22:39,605 Speaker 2: out to be just as wicked. She brings forward six 354 00:22:39,725 --> 00:22:43,605 Speaker 2: daughters she had been hiding and slowly demotes Zola to 355 00:22:43,685 --> 00:22:48,205 Speaker 2: the place of a servant. Zizola becomes the Cat Cinderella 356 00:22:48,565 --> 00:22:53,365 Speaker 2: because she's no better than an animal. Later, the prince 357 00:22:53,445 --> 00:22:56,325 Speaker 2: goes on a trip and asks his stepdaughters what they 358 00:22:56,365 --> 00:22:56,805 Speaker 2: would like. 359 00:22:57,805 --> 00:22:59,445 Speaker 1: The response is riches. 360 00:23:00,245 --> 00:23:04,205 Speaker 2: Then, as a snub, he asks Zola if she wants anything. 361 00:23:04,925 --> 00:23:07,885 Speaker 2: She tells them a gift from the fairy isle. But 362 00:23:08,005 --> 00:23:10,805 Speaker 2: on top of asking for the gift, she also tells 363 00:23:10,885 --> 00:23:13,765 Speaker 2: him that if he doesn't follow through, he will never 364 00:23:13,845 --> 00:23:15,605 Speaker 2: be able to find his way home. 365 00:23:17,045 --> 00:23:17,925 Speaker 1: Lo and behold. 366 00:23:18,165 --> 00:23:21,245 Speaker 2: When he tries to sail back, he can't, So he 367 00:23:21,325 --> 00:23:24,405 Speaker 2: follows through on his promise to his daughter. The fairies 368 00:23:24,525 --> 00:23:28,845 Speaker 2: gave her a date tree. The date tree ends up 369 00:23:28,885 --> 00:23:32,165 Speaker 2: producing a fairy who asks Zzola what she wants. 370 00:23:33,205 --> 00:23:35,085 Speaker 1: Zizzola says to leave any. 371 00:23:34,925 --> 00:23:38,325 Speaker 2: Time without her sister's knowing, so the fairy gives her 372 00:23:38,365 --> 00:23:40,965 Speaker 2: a phrase to whisper to the tree whenever she wants 373 00:23:41,005 --> 00:23:44,165 Speaker 2: to leave, and a phrase to whisper when she returns. 374 00:23:44,365 --> 00:23:45,805 Speaker 1: To undo the magic. 375 00:23:46,765 --> 00:23:50,285 Speaker 2: On one feast day, Zazola waits until everyone leaves and 376 00:23:50,325 --> 00:23:52,685 Speaker 2: then goes to the date tree and makes her wish. 377 00:23:53,205 --> 00:23:56,325 Speaker 2: She has given a gown and slippers and a royal procession. 378 00:23:57,005 --> 00:24:02,285 Speaker 2: This happens three times over, each time grander than the last. 379 00:24:03,005 --> 00:24:06,405 Speaker 2: Absolutely smitten by her beauty and charm, the king wants 380 00:24:06,445 --> 00:24:10,725 Speaker 2: to learn who Zola is. He has a servant follow her, 381 00:24:10,885 --> 00:24:14,005 Speaker 2: but all three times Zzola shakes a servant off her 382 00:24:14,005 --> 00:24:18,365 Speaker 2: trail by tossing out gold and jewels. It's the third 383 00:24:18,405 --> 00:24:20,925 Speaker 2: time she shakes off the servant that she loses her 384 00:24:20,965 --> 00:24:25,405 Speaker 2: shoe by tossing it out. The king decides to hold 385 00:24:25,485 --> 00:24:29,965 Speaker 2: another feast, declaring all maidens must attend. He planned on 386 00:24:30,045 --> 00:24:33,885 Speaker 2: having all the maidens try the shoe. The prince, Zizola's 387 00:24:33,885 --> 00:24:37,925 Speaker 2: father tells the king his daughter hasn't been attending because quote, 388 00:24:38,245 --> 00:24:41,605 Speaker 2: she is a sorry, worthless creature, not fit to take 389 00:24:41,645 --> 00:24:44,565 Speaker 2: her place at the table where you eat. But the 390 00:24:44,645 --> 00:24:47,445 Speaker 2: king insists that she should be the first on the list, 391 00:24:47,605 --> 00:24:49,125 Speaker 2: since that's what he's decreed. 392 00:24:50,405 --> 00:24:51,125 Speaker 1: When it's z. 393 00:24:51,245 --> 00:24:54,925 Speaker 2: Zola's turn to try the slipper on it, quote jumps 394 00:24:54,965 --> 00:24:58,365 Speaker 2: to her foot like a moth of flame. Zizzola is 395 00:24:58,445 --> 00:25:00,805 Speaker 2: zen crowned and the other people are told to obey 396 00:25:00,885 --> 00:25:05,245 Speaker 2: her as queen. The Zelee has an extra element to 397 00:25:05,285 --> 00:25:08,965 Speaker 2: him version though at the very end, the stepsisters, who 398 00:25:09,045 --> 00:25:13,365 Speaker 2: are heartbroken and angry, confessed to their mother he is mad, 399 00:25:13,445 --> 00:25:17,165 Speaker 2: who would oppose the stars. It's as if what happened 400 00:25:17,525 --> 00:25:21,885 Speaker 2: was faded. It's easy to see how Perot's version was 401 00:25:21,925 --> 00:25:26,005 Speaker 2: able to build upon Bazilli's story. The foundations of Cinderella 402 00:25:26,205 --> 00:25:29,205 Speaker 2: most of us are familiar with are there, but Pero 403 00:25:29,445 --> 00:25:33,725 Speaker 2: just made them more magical, including the pumpkin turned carriage, 404 00:25:33,885 --> 00:25:42,365 Speaker 2: the fairy Godmother, and the glass slipper. At its core, 405 00:25:42,605 --> 00:25:46,765 Speaker 2: these tales of Cinderella are all about class reinforcing hierarchies 406 00:25:46,845 --> 00:25:51,165 Speaker 2: embedded in society, although some propose that it's a cautionary 407 00:25:51,205 --> 00:25:56,205 Speaker 2: tale about the consequences of mistreating children. However, in more 408 00:25:56,285 --> 00:26:01,605 Speaker 2: recent adaptations, Cinderella has evolved to reflect more modern sensibilities. 409 00:26:11,605 --> 00:26:14,805 Speaker 2: During the brother's grim time, it was typical for stepmothers 410 00:26:14,845 --> 00:26:19,285 Speaker 2: to be portrayed as wicked. Stepmothers were historically common due 411 00:26:19,285 --> 00:26:23,645 Speaker 2: to mothers dying during childbirth. This pitted stepmothers against their 412 00:26:23,685 --> 00:26:28,845 Speaker 2: stepchildren because of the intricacies of inheritance laws. Common knowledge 413 00:26:28,885 --> 00:26:33,485 Speaker 2: says that inheritance was passed down through male lineage. However, 414 00:26:33,725 --> 00:26:36,365 Speaker 2: if there were no male heirs or their father didn't 415 00:26:36,405 --> 00:26:40,045 Speaker 2: have a brother, money and land would sometimes be passed 416 00:26:40,085 --> 00:26:43,285 Speaker 2: down to the daughter. In cases where there was more 417 00:26:43,325 --> 00:26:48,405 Speaker 2: than one daughter, money and property would be split equally. Historically, 418 00:26:48,565 --> 00:26:53,045 Speaker 2: there was little opportunity for economic mobility. Inheritance was key 419 00:26:53,205 --> 00:26:57,125 Speaker 2: to maintaining social status. So if the stepmother had a 420 00:26:57,205 --> 00:27:00,445 Speaker 2: son and that was the only son, there wasn't a problem, 421 00:27:00,845 --> 00:27:03,285 Speaker 2: but you can see how it would cause a riff otherwise. 422 00:27:05,685 --> 00:27:09,125 Speaker 2: So at its heart, Cinderella is about class and how 423 00:27:09,205 --> 00:27:12,805 Speaker 2: people can rise through the ranks or fall to their ruin. 424 00:27:13,725 --> 00:27:17,685 Speaker 5: We see a lot of themes of the restoration of 425 00:27:17,765 --> 00:27:20,925 Speaker 5: the right way that things are meant to be happening here. 426 00:27:20,965 --> 00:27:25,165 Speaker 5: Cinderella is very often pitched as a rags to riches story, 427 00:27:25,245 --> 00:27:27,845 Speaker 5: and in some iterations it is, but in the most 428 00:27:27,885 --> 00:27:31,045 Speaker 5: common iterations of Western Europe it is a riches to 429 00:27:31,125 --> 00:27:32,325 Speaker 5: rags to riches story. 430 00:27:32,685 --> 00:27:35,685 Speaker 2: One of the easiest ways to maintain class or rise 431 00:27:35,725 --> 00:27:38,725 Speaker 2: in the ranks was to marry. That's why one of 432 00:27:38,765 --> 00:27:41,445 Speaker 2: the best ways to ensure marriage was to be beautiful 433 00:27:41,565 --> 00:27:42,645 Speaker 2: and pure of heart. 434 00:27:42,965 --> 00:27:45,885 Speaker 5: It is right that Cinderella have her wealth restored because 435 00:27:45,925 --> 00:27:49,165 Speaker 5: she is good and virtuous and young and beautiful. And 436 00:27:49,245 --> 00:27:52,685 Speaker 5: so we see all of those traits of positivity being 437 00:27:52,725 --> 00:27:58,165 Speaker 5: tied together and even at times leading directly to an 438 00:27:58,205 --> 00:28:01,285 Speaker 5: emphasis of the negativity on the other side of the spectrum. 439 00:28:01,445 --> 00:28:05,245 Speaker 5: After Cinderella gets married, the beautiful doves that accompany her 440 00:28:05,645 --> 00:28:08,365 Speaker 5: on her wedding day fly over to her sisters and 441 00:28:08,525 --> 00:28:13,165 Speaker 5: peck out their eyes like they are blinded and maimed 442 00:28:13,725 --> 00:28:18,485 Speaker 5: by the same magical helpers that assisted Cinderella into her 443 00:28:18,525 --> 00:28:21,445 Speaker 5: beautiful marriage and wedding and life as royalty. 444 00:28:21,485 --> 00:28:21,645 Speaker 3: Now. 445 00:28:22,565 --> 00:28:26,845 Speaker 2: Newer adaptations have two different shifts. One is what is 446 00:28:26,885 --> 00:28:30,845 Speaker 2: considered to be a woman's success, and two is how 447 00:28:30,885 --> 00:28:33,285 Speaker 2: the stepmother and stepsisters are perceived. 448 00:28:33,885 --> 00:28:38,005 Speaker 5: Cinderella gives us a way to talk about womanhood that 449 00:28:38,205 --> 00:28:46,485 Speaker 5: lets us have a shared starting point to move from. 450 00:28:46,845 --> 00:28:50,045 Speaker 2: Let's circle back to the wildly popular Walt Disney film 451 00:28:50,085 --> 00:28:55,165 Speaker 2: released in nineteen fifty. Disney's adaptation pulled from Perrot's story 452 00:28:55,525 --> 00:28:58,325 Speaker 2: because it was more in line with America's notion that 453 00:28:58,405 --> 00:29:01,725 Speaker 2: a woman's success was that she married well, could stay 454 00:29:01,725 --> 00:29:04,725 Speaker 2: at home, didn't have to work, and had a well 455 00:29:04,805 --> 00:29:08,245 Speaker 2: kept house. It's also pretty cut and dry about who 456 00:29:08,325 --> 00:29:12,245 Speaker 2: was right and who was wrong. This still lines up 457 00:29:12,285 --> 00:29:16,005 Speaker 2: pretty strongly with the values from the earlier tales. But 458 00:29:16,125 --> 00:29:19,965 Speaker 2: then you have stories like Gregory Maguire's Confessions of an 459 00:29:20,045 --> 00:29:23,565 Speaker 2: Ugly Stepsister, which is told from Iris's point of view. 460 00:29:24,165 --> 00:29:25,645 Speaker 1: She is one of the stepsisters. 461 00:29:26,245 --> 00:29:30,045 Speaker 2: In this adaptation, it's not so much Cinderella versus her 462 00:29:30,085 --> 00:29:33,765 Speaker 2: stepsisters and stepmother, but outside power as the sisters are 463 00:29:33,765 --> 00:29:37,765 Speaker 2: fighting against. The book is sympathetic towards a stepmother and 464 00:29:37,765 --> 00:29:41,605 Speaker 2: stepsisters and shows that there could be more to the story. 465 00:29:42,685 --> 00:29:46,485 Speaker 2: In twenty twelve, Marissa Meyer wrote a book titled Cinder. 466 00:29:47,085 --> 00:29:52,405 Speaker 2: It was the first in the Lunar Chronicle series. The 467 00:29:52,485 --> 00:29:55,805 Speaker 2: adaptation is about a cyborg who goes on this journey 468 00:29:55,845 --> 00:29:59,365 Speaker 2: to help save the population from a plague. In the end, 469 00:29:59,885 --> 00:30:02,245 Speaker 2: Cinder and the crew that joins her along the way, 470 00:30:02,605 --> 00:30:07,125 Speaker 2: including Prince Kai, saved the day. Although Prince Kai and 471 00:30:07,205 --> 00:30:10,645 Speaker 2: Cender feel deeply about each other, they don't initially end 472 00:30:10,725 --> 00:30:15,365 Speaker 2: up together. Cinda wants to help Luna, where she's from, 473 00:30:15,925 --> 00:30:19,565 Speaker 2: form a democracy and gets stabilized, but she does tell 474 00:30:19,605 --> 00:30:22,325 Speaker 2: the Prince she will be his empress once she's in 475 00:30:22,325 --> 00:30:27,925 Speaker 2: a place to step down. In the twenty twenty one 476 00:30:28,085 --> 00:30:32,885 Speaker 2: Amazon primary make, Cinderella has big dreams of designing dresses 477 00:30:32,885 --> 00:30:36,405 Speaker 2: to sell at her own dress shop. Yes, she does 478 00:30:36,525 --> 00:30:39,285 Speaker 2: meet the Prince and they fall for each other, but 479 00:30:39,365 --> 00:30:43,005 Speaker 2: Cinderella is offered a job as a personal seamstress and 480 00:30:43,085 --> 00:30:45,565 Speaker 2: tells the prince he can come with her, but she's 481 00:30:45,645 --> 00:30:49,405 Speaker 2: taking the job. The prince agrees, gives up his right 482 00:30:49,485 --> 00:30:53,085 Speaker 2: to rule the kingdom, and both he and Cinderella sail 483 00:30:53,165 --> 00:30:56,725 Speaker 2: off so she can follow her dreams. It's a large 484 00:30:56,805 --> 00:30:59,885 Speaker 2: jump from the nineteen fifties notion of what it means 485 00:31:00,125 --> 00:31:05,125 Speaker 2: to be a successful woman. Also in this movie, Cinderella 486 00:31:05,165 --> 00:31:09,725 Speaker 2: forgets the stepsisters and stepmother. She understands and isn't mad 487 00:31:09,765 --> 00:31:14,485 Speaker 2: at them. The examples go on, but what we can 488 00:31:14,565 --> 00:31:16,765 Speaker 2: see is that what it is to be a woman 489 00:31:17,085 --> 00:31:20,245 Speaker 2: and how women relate to each other is reflected and 490 00:31:20,325 --> 00:31:22,485 Speaker 2: how the Cinderella story has been told. 491 00:31:23,485 --> 00:31:28,045 Speaker 5: And one interesting thing that folklorists are doing increasingly is 492 00:31:28,205 --> 00:31:33,405 Speaker 5: looking at how children actually perceive and talk about these 493 00:31:33,485 --> 00:31:36,525 Speaker 5: characters that they encounter through fairy tales through popular media. 494 00:31:37,205 --> 00:31:42,285 Speaker 5: And it's not always in the baseline way that we expect. 495 00:31:42,645 --> 00:31:45,085 Speaker 5: Young girls don't just see Cinderella and say I want 496 00:31:45,085 --> 00:31:46,805 Speaker 5: to be a princess who marries a prince I barely 497 00:31:46,805 --> 00:31:49,805 Speaker 5: know who's rich. Young girls will see Cinderella and want 498 00:31:49,845 --> 00:31:53,725 Speaker 5: to play as Cinderella and have adventures and want to 499 00:31:54,325 --> 00:31:57,405 Speaker 5: do different things or overcome the stepsisters in different ways. 500 00:31:58,365 --> 00:32:02,125 Speaker 2: As doctor McNeil also points out, there's a reason Cinderella 501 00:32:02,245 --> 00:32:05,205 Speaker 2: continues and will continue to change with time. 502 00:32:06,485 --> 00:32:10,205 Speaker 5: I mean, princesses as a model from fairy tales are 503 00:32:10,325 --> 00:32:13,845 Speaker 5: likely going nowhere right pop Culturally. It's an idea that 504 00:32:13,885 --> 00:32:15,725 Speaker 5: we love, whether it's on a historic front or a 505 00:32:15,765 --> 00:32:16,485 Speaker 5: fantasy front. 506 00:32:17,125 --> 00:32:20,445 Speaker 2: And by retelling Cinderella, we recast who we are today 507 00:32:20,605 --> 00:32:21,645 Speaker 2: and understand who. 508 00:32:21,605 --> 00:32:22,165 Speaker 1: We used to be. 509 00:32:23,365 --> 00:32:28,485 Speaker 5: And so when we manifest these stories in ways that 510 00:32:28,525 --> 00:32:33,085 Speaker 5: are relevant to us today, we are intrinsically commenting on 511 00:32:33,325 --> 00:32:36,845 Speaker 5: all the different ways they were relative in the past. 512 00:32:36,925 --> 00:32:40,525 Speaker 5: And that's really powerful, because that's not something we can 513 00:32:40,565 --> 00:32:43,605 Speaker 5: do with that same sense of intent or purpose. When 514 00:32:43,645 --> 00:33:05,805 Speaker 5: we tell a holy new story. 515 00:32:56,405 --> 00:33:00,805 Speaker 2: Cinderella, a tale of class, pain, hope, and sometimes magic. 516 00:33:01,565 --> 00:33:04,925 Speaker 2: Every iteration has something to add, a kernel of its 517 00:33:04,965 --> 00:33:08,205 Speaker 2: own truth to share. And there is one simple fact 518 00:33:08,365 --> 00:33:12,525 Speaker 2: to this story that has survived centuries. Almost everyone can 519 00:33:12,565 --> 00:33:17,845 Speaker 2: find something relatable to the persecuted heroine. There are more 520 00:33:17,885 --> 00:33:22,085 Speaker 2: brothers grim tales waiting to be explored. Take my hand 521 00:33:22,285 --> 00:33:24,125 Speaker 2: and let me lead you through. 522 00:33:23,965 --> 00:33:25,765 Speaker 1: The deep dark woods. 523 00:33:27,445 --> 00:33:31,085 Speaker 2: Next time we follow the breadcrumbs to a witch's House 524 00:33:38,965 --> 00:33:41,645 Speaker 2: the Deep Dark Woods is a production of School Humans 525 00:33:41,685 --> 00:33:45,965 Speaker 2: and iHeart Podcasts. It was created, written, and hosted by 526 00:33:46,005 --> 00:33:49,925 Speaker 2: me Miranda Hawkins. This episode was produced by Mike hal 527 00:33:50,045 --> 00:33:55,725 Speaker 2: June with senior producer Gabby Watts. Executive producers are Virginia Prescott, 528 00:33:56,085 --> 00:33:59,045 Speaker 2: Brandon Barr, Elsie Crowley, and Maya Howard. 529 00:33:59,965 --> 00:34:02,125 Speaker 1: Stories are voiced by Julia Christgau. 530 00:34:03,085 --> 00:34:06,805 Speaker 2: Theme song was composed by Jesse Niswang, who also sound 531 00:34:06,845 --> 00:34:10,565 Speaker 2: designed and mixed this episode. If you enjoyed the show, 532 00:34:10,805 --> 00:34:13,925 Speaker 2: please leave a review and you can follow along with 533 00:34:14,005 --> 00:34:16,205 Speaker 2: the show on Instagram at School of Humans.