WEBVTT - Biohacking and the Road to Transhumanism 0:00:03.040 --> 0:00:05.760 Welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind from house stop 0:00:05.880 --> 0:00:16.560 works dot com. Hey you welcome to stuff to Blow 0:00:16.600 --> 0:00:18.440 your Mind. My name is Robert Lamb and I am 0:00:18.520 --> 0:00:21.480 Christian Seger. Hey, Robert, I got a question for you. 0:00:21.960 --> 0:00:24.200 Let's say you want to pick up a paper clip, 0:00:24.239 --> 0:00:26.040 but it's just it's giving you a really hard time. 0:00:26.079 --> 0:00:28.920 You know how sometimes paper clips it's difficult to get 0:00:28.920 --> 0:00:30.800 your fingers around them and pick them up off of 0:00:30.800 --> 0:00:36.280 the surface they're on. What is paper What a paper clips? 0:00:36.520 --> 0:00:42.479 You know, the little metal, metal bendy things. Yes. So, 0:00:42.479 --> 0:00:44.800 so now let me ask you this. You're having a 0:00:44.800 --> 0:00:48.040 hard time picking up this paper clip. Would you cut 0:00:48.080 --> 0:00:51.600 your finger open, put a magnet in there, suitre it 0:00:51.680 --> 0:00:54.200 back up to make it easier to pick up that 0:00:54.240 --> 0:00:56.880 paper clip? Probably not, because that that does not sound 0:00:56.880 --> 0:00:59.880 like I'm making the process any easier. Yeah, but it 0:01:00.160 --> 0:01:01.840 is kind of in human nature, the same way that 0:01:01.880 --> 0:01:04.680 we we try and vacuum up something, and if the 0:01:04.760 --> 0:01:06.520 vacuum cleaner is not picking it up, we will pick 0:01:06.560 --> 0:01:08.760 the object up, look at it, and then place it 0:01:08.760 --> 0:01:10.520 back on the carpet and then give it another go 0:01:10.680 --> 0:01:14.360 with the vacuum. Right. Yeah, technology must succeed. It is 0:01:14.440 --> 0:01:17.600 kind of like that. Yeah, so, uh, that's what we're 0:01:17.640 --> 0:01:20.640 talking about today at its very basic form. We're gonna 0:01:20.640 --> 0:01:24.440 be talking about bio hacking in the present on the 0:01:24.520 --> 0:01:27.840 road to transhumanism. Will explain what all that means. That 0:01:27.920 --> 0:01:29.640 might have just been a bunch of gibberish to you 0:01:29.840 --> 0:01:32.600 just now if you're unfamiliar with these movements, But that's 0:01:32.600 --> 0:01:37.959 a real thing. People are really implanting magnets in their fingers, uh, 0:01:38.000 --> 0:01:40.200 and they pick up paper clips and bottle caps with them. 0:01:40.400 --> 0:01:42.600 But that's not really just why they're doing it. We'll 0:01:42.720 --> 0:01:45.240 we'll talk about more about that later. Yeah, we're gonna 0:01:45.319 --> 0:01:47.880 we're gonna look at some individuals who are either in 0:01:47.960 --> 0:01:52.240 some cases pioneers of trans humanism, innovators who are going 0:01:52.280 --> 0:01:58.480 out there hacking their bodies U upgrading their bodies with technology, 0:01:58.680 --> 0:02:01.400 as well as individuals for kind of harbingers or even 0:02:01.440 --> 0:02:05.120 profits of trans humanism who were who were engaging in 0:02:05.160 --> 0:02:08.720 these acts, uh, to sort of comment on where we 0:02:08.760 --> 0:02:10.639 are and where we can go with our technology. And 0:02:10.680 --> 0:02:13.400 along the way, we're also going to define what trans 0:02:13.440 --> 0:02:17.680 humanism is, discuss some of the different approaches to trans humanism, 0:02:17.760 --> 0:02:22.320 the different uh, philosophies and mindsets that that entail it, 0:02:22.600 --> 0:02:27.040 as well as us a general proposed checklist for how 0:02:27.080 --> 0:02:31.400 we might know when we have become trans human as 0:02:31.400 --> 0:02:34.760 a society exactly. Yeah, And so you know, I think 0:02:34.800 --> 0:02:36.919 a lot of you out there. Again, like if you 0:02:36.960 --> 0:02:39.240 haven't heard of this before, you've probably got some pop 0:02:39.280 --> 0:02:41.640 culture touchstones, and I'm sure Robert and I are going 0:02:41.720 --> 0:02:44.040 to be referring back to throughout the episode. But like, 0:02:44.400 --> 0:02:49.200 for me, the first one I think of is American Mary, 0:02:49.360 --> 0:02:53.960 the horror movie which you've seen right by the SOSCA sisters, 0:02:54.000 --> 0:02:56.720 in which you know there's a lot of body modification 0:02:56.760 --> 0:02:59.720 going on, but the body modification is sort of leading 0:02:59.800 --> 0:03:04.720 to ard something more than human. Right. Also, I mentioned this, 0:03:05.000 --> 0:03:08.760 uh in our Summer Reading episode. The graphic novel Junction 0:03:08.840 --> 0:03:12.639 True is about stuff like this. Warren ellis a lot 0:03:12.680 --> 0:03:15.000 of his comics and prose work is based on this 0:03:15.040 --> 0:03:20.720 stuff like Black Summer, dr Sleepless Desolation Jones, and especially 0:03:20.760 --> 0:03:24.440 trans Metropolitan are about uh, sort of moving towards a 0:03:24.520 --> 0:03:28.160 trans humanist future and what the ethical I guess conflicts 0:03:28.160 --> 0:03:30.639 and repercussions of that would be. And then for me, 0:03:31.400 --> 0:03:34.160 there's this game it's a role playing game called The 0:03:34.160 --> 0:03:36.960 Clips Phase, and I have been in love with it 0:03:37.000 --> 0:03:39.560 since I first read the book of it, and I 0:03:39.600 --> 0:03:43.560 actually played it one time with Joe McCormick, our host. Yeah. Uh, 0:03:43.600 --> 0:03:46.320 and basically the ideas you build your sort of trans 0:03:46.400 --> 0:03:50.960 humanist character that exists in a far future along the 0:03:51.000 --> 0:03:56.880 lines of the philosophies that we're going to present today. Yeah, well, yeah, 0:03:56.920 --> 0:03:59.080 this is of course, so this idea of just upgrading 0:03:59.080 --> 0:04:01.440 the body with grenetic parts. You do see this in 0:04:01.480 --> 0:04:06.000 a number of different role playing scenarios. There's all video 0:04:06.040 --> 0:04:08.760 games where you're kind if you need to upgrade your character, well, 0:04:08.800 --> 0:04:11.960 get a chip for this, which exactly. Yeah. Yeah, like Fallout. 0:04:12.000 --> 0:04:15.800 I play Fallout a lot, and there's plenty of bio 0:04:15.840 --> 0:04:20.480 hacking that goes on in that, and BioShock is essentially 0:04:20.520 --> 0:04:25.600 a bio hacking game. But those are science fiction. Today, 0:04:25.920 --> 0:04:29.280 we're gonna really try to focus in on the reality 0:04:29.360 --> 0:04:32.440 of this stuff. What's actually going on, how close are 0:04:32.440 --> 0:04:36.400 we to doing this, what are the current benefits of it? Yeah, 0:04:36.480 --> 0:04:40.280 the science fiction examples are our key two because those serve, 0:04:40.360 --> 0:04:44.320 as you know, it's kind of avatars of what is possible. Yeah, 0:04:44.400 --> 0:04:47.159 and Uh. And in any of these ideas we discussed 0:04:47.160 --> 0:04:49.680 here today, they're not They're not too far removed from 0:04:49.720 --> 0:04:53.120 the sci fi visions that at least partially inspire them. Yeah, 0:04:53.160 --> 0:04:55.560 I agree. Uh. And I want to kick things off 0:04:55.640 --> 0:04:58.680 with a quote that I found during the research, which 0:04:58.720 --> 0:05:00.920 is from a pretty well known own bio hacker who 0:05:00.960 --> 0:05:05.400 goes by the name anonym Uh. And she says, bodily 0:05:05.440 --> 0:05:09.600 health takes a big f off second seat to curiosity 0:05:09.640 --> 0:05:13.240 when she's referring to her own bio hacking. We're gonna 0:05:13.240 --> 0:05:15.440 talk a lot more about her own biohacking, but this 0:05:15.520 --> 0:05:18.960 is the kind of philosophical ethos we're talking about here. 0:05:19.120 --> 0:05:22.840 Very d I y approach, and they're less worried about 0:05:22.880 --> 0:05:27.880 their health and more about sort of the innovation, the curiosity. Yeah, 0:05:28.600 --> 0:05:31.039 claiming their body saying this is this is my form, 0:05:31.080 --> 0:05:32.720 and if I want to augment it, if I want 0:05:32.720 --> 0:05:35.160 to upgrade it, that is what I'm going to do. 0:05:35.920 --> 0:05:39.919 Health come second. Yep. So Okay, you're out there saying 0:05:40.000 --> 0:05:41.680 I don't know what you guys are talking about at all. 0:05:42.040 --> 0:05:46.880 What is trans humanism? Well, the basic premises something like this, right, 0:05:47.320 --> 0:05:53.119 we can improve being humans through technology and science, and 0:05:53.279 --> 0:05:56.880 we're basically taking evolution into our own hands. Now, those 0:05:56.920 --> 0:05:59.880 of you've listened to our episode on the philosophy of 0:06:00.080 --> 0:06:03.240 cyborg ism, Uh, this is gonna sound familiar, right if 0:06:03.320 --> 0:06:05.760 there they touch on each other. There's a nice big 0:06:05.839 --> 0:06:09.640 ven diagram of trans humanism and cyborgs. Yeah, I mean 0:06:09.920 --> 0:06:11.799 a lot of it touches into this area to where 0:06:12.360 --> 0:06:16.800 you know, essentially human evolution has has has long been 0:06:16.839 --> 0:06:21.359 altered or even stunted by our culture, by by just 0:06:21.400 --> 0:06:24.680 the way that we live as individuals. Now natural selection 0:06:24.760 --> 0:06:27.520 doesn't quite work the same way anymore. So this is 0:06:27.560 --> 0:06:31.160 the idea that the next phase of human evolution is 0:06:31.320 --> 0:06:38.040 one of largely self guided technological scientific achievement. Now it is. 0:06:38.080 --> 0:06:41.919 We'll discuss exactly how that breaks down. Varies greatly, and 0:06:41.960 --> 0:06:46.800 it runs the gamut from like fully semi androids, cybernetic 0:06:47.320 --> 0:06:51.359 futuristic beings, uh you know that are essential essentially like 0:06:51.440 --> 0:06:57.919 technological angelic beings too, more sort of near future but 0:06:58.120 --> 0:07:02.440 sometimes lofty ideas about just simply making society better, making 0:07:02.440 --> 0:07:05.240 our world better, kind of going after that Star Trek 0:07:05.520 --> 0:07:11.200 s Gene Roddenberry inspired uh utopia ideal. Yeah, And this 0:07:11.280 --> 0:07:12.560 is you know, what. This is a good point where 0:07:12.560 --> 0:07:15.280 I want to throw out a plug for you, which 0:07:15.360 --> 0:07:17.800 is that you last week published a piece on how 0:07:17.840 --> 0:07:21.440 stuff Works Now that was an experiment in looking at 0:07:21.480 --> 0:07:25.760 a trans human cyborg future, uh, specifically along the lines 0:07:25.800 --> 0:07:28.600 of space travel, as we discussed in our Cyborg episode, 0:07:28.800 --> 0:07:31.960 and it was called Silba Dreams of Earth and it 0:07:32.040 --> 0:07:36.600 was basically it was a great short story about a 0:07:36.720 --> 0:07:39.960 trans human or a post human I guess on Jupiter, 0:07:40.760 --> 0:07:43.160 thinking about what life was like on Earth. Oh yeah, well, 0:07:43.600 --> 0:07:44.880 thank you. That one was a lot of fun to 0:07:44.920 --> 0:07:48.040 put together and definitely uh I spun that off of 0:07:48.120 --> 0:07:51.000 ideas that we discussed here on the podcast. Well, I 0:07:51.040 --> 0:07:53.680 think if anybody who's listened to those episodes or this 0:07:53.720 --> 0:07:56.240 episode and you like that stuff, go check that out. 0:07:56.320 --> 0:07:59.840 Go look for Roberts piece which the Silva Dreams of 0:08:00.160 --> 0:08:01.800 is the title of the short story. What's the title 0:08:01.840 --> 0:08:05.080 of the article? That's it's a question about what the 0:08:05.080 --> 0:08:08.080 our trans human future like. I'll make sure that we 0:08:08.120 --> 0:08:10.600 link to it on the landing page for this Episodeah, 0:08:10.640 --> 0:08:12.760 you should, because it's great and it's really connected to 0:08:12.800 --> 0:08:15.320 what we're doing here. Yeah. The thought experiment thing is 0:08:15.320 --> 0:08:19.680 pretty interesting. Um, Former co host Julie Douglas also did one, 0:08:19.960 --> 0:08:22.600 and and you've been invited to so I have. Yeah, 0:08:22.680 --> 0:08:24.679 I haven't thought up of one yet. I think Julius 0:08:24.760 --> 0:08:26.480 was something about like, what would life be like if 0:08:26.520 --> 0:08:28.760 we were crawling all the time? Yeah, if we were 0:08:28.800 --> 0:08:32.160 still sort of like quadrupeds. Yeah. Yeah. So it's an 0:08:32.160 --> 0:08:35.199 interesting had some cool illustration, So hopefully we'll see more 0:08:35.520 --> 0:08:38.440 and more of these from members of the house. Stuff works. Yeah, 0:08:38.559 --> 0:08:40.120 I'm gonna try to take a stab at it one 0:08:40.160 --> 0:08:43.240 of these days. Uh. The thing about trans humanism, though, 0:08:43.240 --> 0:08:46.839 that I want to go back to, this isn't exactly new, right. 0:08:46.960 --> 0:08:50.400 For a long time, people have sought out ways to 0:08:50.679 --> 0:08:55.280 change their bodies, in particular extending the human life. Right. 0:08:55.320 --> 0:08:59.120 We've talked about this before with our episodes on Egyptian 0:08:59.160 --> 0:09:04.320 burials or just the practices. And they're trans humanists though 0:09:04.360 --> 0:09:08.000 they're not just interested in being immortal, that's part of it. 0:09:08.760 --> 0:09:12.440 But what about things like, for instance, adding technology to 0:09:12.480 --> 0:09:15.880 your body so you have different senses, or maybe learning 0:09:15.880 --> 0:09:19.320 how to be telepathic by having science and technology connect 0:09:19.360 --> 0:09:21.880 you to another human being. That's the kind of stuff 0:09:21.880 --> 0:09:25.000 we're gonna be talking about today. Now there's three categories, 0:09:25.000 --> 0:09:28.360 according to our House Stuff Works article on trans humanism. 0:09:28.400 --> 0:09:30.079 I think we're gonna see a little bit more than 0:09:30.080 --> 0:09:33.559 this today, though, but help me out. There's the longevity one, 0:09:33.720 --> 0:09:37.240 which we primarily see nowadays through cryonics, the idea of 0:09:37.400 --> 0:09:41.200 you know, freezing your body basically, uh so after you die, 0:09:41.320 --> 0:09:44.720 so in a far future where there's uh, you know, 0:09:44.840 --> 0:09:48.000 technology that would be able to cure whatever you've got, Well, 0:09:48.040 --> 0:09:51.920 I would say that's that's one version. That's certainly a 0:09:51.960 --> 0:09:53.720 lot of the word going into this, Particularly the work 0:09:53.720 --> 0:09:57.000 of Aubrey de Gray, revolves around this idea of that 0:09:57.040 --> 0:10:00.120 the death is something we can we can get or 0:10:00.200 --> 0:10:02.040 come to, right. We just have to take We have 0:10:02.120 --> 0:10:07.720 to take death divided up into the various uh approachable problems, 0:10:08.280 --> 0:10:11.880 and then tackle each of those problems individually in order 0:10:11.920 --> 0:10:15.600 to defeat death. Sounds a little lofty, but at least 0:10:15.600 --> 0:10:19.040 prolonged human life to where the average individual will live 0:10:19.360 --> 0:10:24.160 at least a century. Yeah. The second category is becoming 0:10:24.200 --> 0:10:28.160 a what they call super well being, and that's basically 0:10:28.600 --> 0:10:30.920 guaranteeing that you have the best traits so that you 0:10:31.080 --> 0:10:33.320 feel the best possible way that you can and you 0:10:33.320 --> 0:10:35.480 can exist in the best way that you can within 0:10:35.520 --> 0:10:39.880 your environment. This is an area where and arguably there's 0:10:39.920 --> 0:10:44.560 a lot of scientific arrogance here, because the idea here is, hey, 0:10:44.760 --> 0:10:46.920 if you let science and technology take care of it, 0:10:47.160 --> 0:10:50.680 we got your well being, you're gonna be happy as if. 0:10:51.440 --> 0:10:55.240 And I don't want to totally discount that argument, but 0:10:55.280 --> 0:10:58.640 you really get into this this clash between science and 0:10:58.720 --> 0:11:01.720 every other discipline out there that has some approach to 0:11:02.000 --> 0:11:05.320 human well being in human happiness, be its spiritual or 0:11:05.320 --> 0:11:11.880 philosophical or well, that's gonna that's gonna go beyond sciences team, right, 0:11:11.920 --> 0:11:15.160 so yeah, right, yeah, uh. And then the third one 0:11:15.200 --> 0:11:18.320 would be super intelligence, which I didn't find too many 0:11:18.360 --> 0:11:23.000 examples of in the uh the sort of practical examples 0:11:23.000 --> 0:11:26.280 that we're encountering nowadays. But the idea here is essentially, 0:11:26.760 --> 0:11:30.280 either through genetics or technology, augmenting our brain so we're 0:11:30.440 --> 0:11:33.600 smarter or have a capacity for more memory. Right. Yeah, Well, 0:11:33.640 --> 0:11:36.840 I mean I would say we're we're already seeing like 0:11:36.880 --> 0:11:40.720 a soft shade of that in terms of our just 0:11:40.920 --> 0:11:47.120 constant use of cloud based devices and constant wireless connection. 0:11:47.480 --> 0:11:50.439 Like it's it's not a direct augmentation of the brain, 0:11:51.040 --> 0:11:55.400 but we're we're making sure that we're we're almost painfully 0:11:55.400 --> 0:11:58.920 attached to the infinite knowledge. Yeah, yeah, yeah, Right, Like 0:11:58.960 --> 0:12:01.160 when we're watching a TV show and you're like, hmmm, 0:12:01.480 --> 0:12:03.360 I don't know who that actor is, what other things 0:12:03.360 --> 0:12:05.520 has he been in? Just whip out your phone. Right, 0:12:06.240 --> 0:12:08.480 less than five minutes you figured it out. Yeah, not 0:12:08.600 --> 0:12:11.480 knowing is no longer acceptable. Ye used to. There was 0:12:11.520 --> 0:12:13.000 a day when you're when you were like, Hey, I 0:12:13.000 --> 0:12:15.720 wonder who that that character actor is? He just didn't 0:12:15.760 --> 0:12:19.559 know you you you could maybe go research it tomorrow, 0:12:19.640 --> 0:12:21.800 but right now, just or you talk to other human 0:12:21.840 --> 0:12:24.400 beings about it. Hey, who's that guy that's on that 0:12:24.600 --> 0:12:26.880 Pete Holmes has a really good bit about this. Uh, 0:12:27.440 --> 0:12:30.760 we're basically like we've we're losing like our social connections 0:12:30.800 --> 0:12:32.960 because phones. Yeah, yeah, he does have a great bit 0:12:33.000 --> 0:12:36.400 on this. I've heard I've heard that bit. Um. But 0:12:36.559 --> 0:12:41.280 so a lot of people equate transhumanism with the singularity, 0:12:41.400 --> 0:12:44.079 right that eventually it's going to lead to the singularity. 0:12:44.160 --> 0:12:46.360 And but what we what we mean by that is 0:12:46.400 --> 0:12:51.760 the point where artificial intelligence surpasses the abilities of biological intelligence. Now, 0:12:52.080 --> 0:12:54.839 I would say the research that we did today it's 0:12:54.880 --> 0:12:56.600 not going to take us too far down that path. 0:12:56.760 --> 0:12:59.640 That's another episode for another time. Yeah. That that that 0:12:59.840 --> 0:13:02.559 this singularity is definitely a transition point and into an 0:13:02.720 --> 0:13:08.000 entirely different mode of existing. So let's talk about, uh, 0:13:08.040 --> 0:13:11.760 what there's different types of trans humanism. Let's let's sort 0:13:11.760 --> 0:13:16.760 of just like upfront, established the philosophies. And you found 0:13:16.760 --> 0:13:20.320 a great piece from Omni magazine in a twenty sixteen 0:13:20.559 --> 0:13:24.880 article called trans Humanism Sexual Identity. Let's start there. Yeah, 0:13:24.880 --> 0:13:27.600 this puts a cool little article and towards the end 0:13:27.600 --> 0:13:29.160 of it, they did a great job of just laying 0:13:29.160 --> 0:13:31.800 out some of these different approaches to it um, which 0:13:32.040 --> 0:13:34.000 which serves as a nice sort of starting point for 0:13:34.040 --> 0:13:37.160 exploring some of them, and and just you know, briefly 0:13:37.200 --> 0:13:41.359 explaining the other ones. Um. First up, democratic trans humanism. 0:13:41.360 --> 0:13:44.040 This is trans humanism for the people, for the species, 0:13:44.840 --> 0:13:46.720 the idea that only when you can you apply this 0:13:46.800 --> 0:13:50.360 to everyone at every socio and socioeconomic level, will we 0:13:50.440 --> 0:13:53.280 really be able to evolve or elevate the human race. 0:13:54.440 --> 0:13:56.800 And uh, and I find this one interesting because on 0:13:56.800 --> 0:14:00.400 one level, it's the most reasonable incarnation on the list. 0:14:00.720 --> 0:14:04.360 It's the Bernie Sanders trans humanist movement. Yeah, yeah, because 0:14:04.360 --> 0:14:06.360 like you can't. How can we say that we've evolve 0:14:06.400 --> 0:14:10.640 the human species if we're ultimately talking about just one class. Yeah, exactly. 0:14:10.720 --> 0:14:13.560 And that's where this thing often goes, right, is like, well, 0:14:13.720 --> 0:14:16.160 is only the are the one percent going to be 0:14:16.200 --> 0:14:19.240 the only ones who can afford this kind of trans 0:14:19.320 --> 0:14:24.040 human operation, whereas like bio hacking is primarily about just 0:14:24.080 --> 0:14:26.400 like d I Y do it in your garage, your 0:14:26.480 --> 0:14:29.480 kitchen or whatever and literally cut yourself up and jam 0:14:29.600 --> 0:14:32.560 stuff into your body. Yeah. So yeah, this is the 0:14:32.640 --> 0:14:35.240 idea that you can't you leave no humans behind if 0:14:35.280 --> 0:14:36.960 we're going to evolve as a species, We're gonna involve 0:14:37.000 --> 0:14:40.440 as a species. But it also there's a little bit 0:14:40.480 --> 0:14:43.760 of Western arrogance to it as well. And I heard 0:14:43.840 --> 0:14:48.720 Terry Gross on NPR Fresh Air interview Donald g McNeil Jr. 0:14:48.840 --> 0:14:54.280 Author of Zeka The Emerging Epidemic, and he discussed, you know, 0:14:54.320 --> 0:14:58.680 the various countermeat measures of delaying sexual reproduction in Zeka 0:14:58.800 --> 0:15:02.200 danger zones as to have avoid the threat to newborns. Yeah. Right, 0:15:02.200 --> 0:15:05.040 it's a big topic of conversation right now. Yeah. But 0:15:05.040 --> 0:15:07.080 but as he pointed out, this sort of effort in 0:15:07.120 --> 0:15:10.400 developing nations often comes across as white people a world 0:15:10.440 --> 0:15:14.480 away telling Africans or Asians not to have babies, and 0:15:14.520 --> 0:15:17.600 they even they even avoid some of the loaded language 0:15:17.680 --> 0:15:21.160 by referring to it as spacing out births rather than 0:15:21.200 --> 0:15:25.120 talking about birth control. Yeah. I think I don't know 0:15:25.120 --> 0:15:26.840 if we've talked about this on the show, or maybe 0:15:26.840 --> 0:15:28.640 we just talked about it in the office one time. 0:15:28.640 --> 0:15:31.280 But the idea that because of the ZA epidemic and 0:15:31.520 --> 0:15:34.480 ideas of spacing out births like this, that there will 0:15:34.520 --> 0:15:40.640 be like huge gaps in classes in various schools down 0:15:40.680 --> 0:15:43.040 the road in the future because, for instance, like a 0:15:43.120 --> 0:15:45.680 year or two will have gone by where no babies 0:15:45.760 --> 0:15:49.800 or less babies were born, right, Um, and what kind 0:15:49.800 --> 0:15:54.720 of impact does that have on a society going forward? Yeah? Indeed, um. 0:15:54.960 --> 0:15:57.680 But but then certainly that the transhumanist angle here is, 0:15:58.920 --> 0:16:01.240 you know, do you end up go walking into all 0:16:01.240 --> 0:16:03.280 these places around the world and saying, hey, everybody, this 0:16:03.320 --> 0:16:04.800 is what it means to be human. Now you need 0:16:04.840 --> 0:16:10.120 to upgrade fingers. Yeah, so it's you're kind of danny 0:16:10.120 --> 0:16:11.480 if you do dander. If you don't, right, if you 0:16:11.560 --> 0:16:15.040 leave everybody behind, that's bad. But if you if you 0:16:15.120 --> 0:16:17.480 offer it to everybody in a little too insistent about it. 0:16:17.520 --> 0:16:21.320 Then that's a that's also a little less shady. Okay, 0:16:22.360 --> 0:16:25.840 the next version, we have a libertarian trans humanism, and 0:16:25.880 --> 0:16:29.520 this is trans human for every Humanism for everybody, but 0:16:29.600 --> 0:16:34.120 without government getting involved. And this, for all intents and purposes, 0:16:34.160 --> 0:16:36.560 seems to be the style of trans humanism represented by 0:16:36.600 --> 0:16:41.320 the United States trans Humanist Party, who currently has a 0:16:41.800 --> 0:16:47.720 US presidential hopeful in the form of of Zoltan. Yeah, 0:16:47.760 --> 0:16:51.680 and in fact, Zoltan wrote me on Twitter last night 0:16:52.000 --> 0:16:53.760 to let me know that he was willing to help 0:16:53.840 --> 0:16:56.640 us out with this episode. Unfortunately I received it too 0:16:56.720 --> 0:16:58.760 late into the research game, but maybe in a future 0:16:58.800 --> 0:17:01.880 episode we can consult with Zultan. I didn't know what 0:17:01.920 --> 0:17:05.440 it was at first because I just randomly tweeted something about, oh, 0:17:05.440 --> 0:17:08.520 I'm researching bio hacking and trans humanism and I gotta ping, 0:17:09.359 --> 0:17:11.800 like midnight last night or something, and it was from 0:17:11.880 --> 0:17:14.520 him or whoever is running his account. It was basically like, 0:17:14.720 --> 0:17:18.520 if you've got any questions, come to me. Yeah. It's uh. 0:17:19.560 --> 0:17:21.600 It should come as no surprise to anyone out there. 0:17:21.800 --> 0:17:23.719 This election cycle has a lot of there's a lot 0:17:23.720 --> 0:17:26.880 of noise and it's easy for some of the other 0:17:27.200 --> 0:17:29.639 candidates to become lost in that noise. Yeah, but I 0:17:29.640 --> 0:17:32.080 think it would be interesting, uh you know, potentially in 0:17:32.720 --> 0:17:34.960 a future scenario for the show where we might have 0:17:35.040 --> 0:17:37.280 Zultan on or we might talk to him and get 0:17:37.280 --> 0:17:39.280 some of his input on stuff like this. Yeah, because 0:17:39.359 --> 0:17:41.040 a lot of these movements, to one of the like 0:17:41.080 --> 0:17:43.480 the really cool things about them is that they're they're 0:17:43.680 --> 0:17:47.719 very pro science, they're very pro technology, and that you 0:17:47.720 --> 0:17:52.280 know what what whatever the other lofty ideas involved there are, 0:17:52.560 --> 0:17:55.520 there is a definite pro science agenda. And similar to 0:17:55.560 --> 0:18:00.600 the libertarian trans humanism, there's also an arco trans minism. 0:18:00.600 --> 0:18:04.359 This is like the stronger anti capitalist, anti state trans 0:18:04.440 --> 0:18:08.200 humanist movement. Uh. These individuals believe that in the wake 0:18:08.320 --> 0:18:11.560 of these advances that we're unleashing, society is going to 0:18:11.680 --> 0:18:14.800 find a democratic form without the need of government or 0:18:14.840 --> 0:18:18.480 massive corporations. This is like almost exactly how that game 0:18:18.480 --> 0:18:21.879 Eclipse phase breaks down. There's like different factions that you 0:18:21.920 --> 0:18:24.520 can be a part of. Everybody's trans human in it, 0:18:24.600 --> 0:18:26.880 but almost all of the factions line up with these 0:18:26.880 --> 0:18:29.639 factions we're talking about here right now. Like there's an 0:18:29.640 --> 0:18:34.800 anarcho one. There's a corporate one. There's uh one that's 0:18:35.040 --> 0:18:38.880 we have extropianism down here, there's an extropianism faction. Yeah, 0:18:38.880 --> 0:18:41.320 so it's basically like within the game, you have to 0:18:41.400 --> 0:18:44.080 choose what your character is. Sort of philosophy about being 0:18:44.119 --> 0:18:47.240 trans human and modifying their body is are there is 0:18:47.240 --> 0:18:49.800 there are there any groups that just have no part 0:18:49.840 --> 0:18:53.800 of trans humanism at all? Uh No, you're I don't 0:18:53.800 --> 0:18:55.640 think that there's a way for you in the game 0:18:55.720 --> 0:18:58.439 to just have a like straight up human body, because 0:18:58.440 --> 0:19:01.800 the whole idea is that, um, we've gotten past the 0:19:01.840 --> 0:19:05.160 singularity in the game, and you can upload your mind 0:19:05.240 --> 0:19:08.240 into any kind of body and then modify that body. 0:19:08.280 --> 0:19:11.679 In fact, like some of the characters are uplifted animals 0:19:11.720 --> 0:19:16.000 in human bodies or vice versa, human minds uplifted into 0:19:16.119 --> 0:19:18.800 animal bodies, Like you can be like an octopus with 0:19:18.840 --> 0:19:23.199 like cybernetic augmentations, but you're human mind. That reminds me 0:19:23.240 --> 0:19:26.640 a lot of Banks. If there's an engine, I think 0:19:26.680 --> 0:19:29.840 it's heavily inspired by his work. Yeah, you should totally 0:19:29.920 --> 0:19:33.000 check this out. It's right up your alley. The religious question, though, 0:19:33.280 --> 0:19:37.040 um came up because it reminded me in um Richard K. 0:19:37.160 --> 0:19:42.000 Morgan's Altered Carbon series. His world involves that just an 0:19:42.000 --> 0:19:45.560 extreme use of this re sleeving of human consciousness. That's 0:19:45.600 --> 0:19:49.520 exactly what they call it in the game sleeving. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 0:19:49.600 --> 0:19:51.440 I I can't recommend this game enough. I mean, it's 0:19:51.480 --> 0:19:53.920 really smartly done. It's I mean, if you're out there 0:19:53.960 --> 0:19:56.000 and you're like, I don't care about game like role 0:19:56.040 --> 0:19:58.640 playing games, and that's cool, but I haven't even other 0:19:58.680 --> 0:20:01.159 than that one time with Joe played it. But just 0:20:01.280 --> 0:20:04.040 reading the book is fascinating because it presents all this 0:20:04.080 --> 0:20:06.239 stuff we're talking about here and then sort of like 0:20:06.280 --> 0:20:10.320 science fiction visions for where we could go down the 0:20:10.359 --> 0:20:14.800 road with trans humanism. Interesting. Yeah, Now Morgan, in his world, 0:20:14.960 --> 0:20:17.600 certain religious groups, such as I think specifically there's a 0:20:17.600 --> 0:20:21.800 branch of Catholics, do not engage in this trans humanist 0:20:21.880 --> 0:20:24.359 re sleeving. Okay, so they're all in their original but 0:20:24.480 --> 0:20:26.199 they're all in their original bodies, and they're just kind 0:20:26.240 --> 0:20:29.359 of set apart from sort of you know, almost like 0:20:29.440 --> 0:20:34.000 normal humans, and that all these strange new approaches to humanity. 0:20:34.119 --> 0:20:37.119 There's some kind of thing in the game's world in 0:20:37.160 --> 0:20:40.200 which there was like an apocalyptic event on Earth that 0:20:40.280 --> 0:20:43.680 prevents you from basically being born with a regular old 0:20:43.760 --> 0:20:47.560 human body. Um, I think because a I got out 0:20:47.560 --> 0:20:51.000 of control and it was like a terminator type skyp. Yeah. Well, 0:20:51.280 --> 0:20:55.760 speaking of religion and trans humanism, there are religious trans humanists. Essentially, 0:20:55.760 --> 0:20:59.600 these are non atheistic trans humanists to see trans humanist 0:20:59.640 --> 0:21:04.040 ideas it's fully compatible with their religious views. Two interesting examples. 0:21:04.040 --> 0:21:06.919 One in particular, since we've been we've recently spoke about 0:21:07.760 --> 0:21:13.639 about Mormons space. There is a Mormon trans Humanist Association 0:21:13.800 --> 0:21:17.600 fascinating and it is quote the world's largest advocacy network 0:21:17.680 --> 0:21:22.200 for ethical use of technology and religion to expand human abilities. There. 0:21:22.200 --> 0:21:25.680 I would never have thought that, but that's fascinating. Yeah, 0:21:25.760 --> 0:21:27.679 there's I was really hope to ask. I have a 0:21:27.720 --> 0:21:30.000 I have a friend, UM whose Mormon and lives out 0:21:30.000 --> 0:21:33.199 in Utah and is really kind of progressive in his 0:21:33.240 --> 0:21:35.200 Mormon views. I'll have to ask him if he's familiar 0:21:35.240 --> 0:21:36.679 with this. Yeah, I kind of want to check in 0:21:36.720 --> 0:21:40.679 with a couple of my old Mormon friends who I know. 0:21:40.720 --> 0:21:45.639 They're both UM, both definitely into science, both science UM advocates, 0:21:45.680 --> 0:21:50.600 but UM, this particular Mormon take on trans humanism it 0:21:50.640 --> 0:21:55.520 also entails something they call transfigurism uh and this is 0:21:55.720 --> 0:21:59.720 This is from their website. Transfigurism is religious trans humanism 0:21:59.720 --> 0:22:05.000 ex amplified by synchronization of Mormonism and trans humanism. The 0:22:05.080 --> 0:22:09.320 term transfigurism denotes advocacy for change in form and alludes 0:22:09.359 --> 0:22:13.440 to sacred stories from many religious traditions. Uh. And they 0:22:13.480 --> 0:22:17.160 refer to uh uh, the Universal Form of Christiana and Hinduism, 0:22:18.200 --> 0:22:21.560 the Radiant Face of Moses and Judaism, and several other 0:22:21.800 --> 0:22:25.080 incarnations and other faiths. So I found that one interesting. 0:22:25.119 --> 0:22:28.639 There's also this Christian trans Humanist Association and they have 0:22:28.880 --> 0:22:31.960 a number of tenants here that are interesting. Include the 0:22:31.960 --> 0:22:36.119 idea that God's mission involves the transformation and renewal of 0:22:36.119 --> 0:22:42.040 crenate creation, um, growth and progress along every dimension of humanity. Uh, 0:22:42.160 --> 0:22:46.520 science and technology as a tangible expression of of the 0:22:46.560 --> 0:22:50.240 God given impulse to explore and discover. Yeah, well that's 0:22:50.280 --> 0:22:52.679 interesting because that is something that comes up over and 0:22:52.720 --> 0:22:55.639