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Speaker 1: Call It What It Is with Jessica Capshaw and Camille Luddington,

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Speaker 1: an iHeartRadio podcast.

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Speaker 2: Well, Hello, Hello, Hello, Hello, call It crew, and welcome

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Speaker 2: to another episode of Short and Sweet.

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Speaker 3: Oh we're going to talk about kids and that's so sweet.

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Speaker 4: I sent this to you. You did, It's like, don't

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Speaker 4: answer me.

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Speaker 2: I want to know your answer on the podcast?

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Speaker 4: What'd you send me?

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Speaker 2: Well? I sent you an article and it talked about

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Speaker 2: how having four kids is apparently.

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Speaker 4: The least stressful number of children.

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Speaker 2: They say a survey conducted by Today of seven thousand

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Speaker 2: US mothers have found which ideal number of kids for

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Speaker 2: the least stressful life is four. And I thought, I

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Speaker 2: know someone that has four children and would probably like

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Speaker 2: to speak on this, And so here I am pulling

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Speaker 2: my hair out over too, and I was like, if

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Speaker 2: I just had two more.

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Speaker 4: If you'd only had two more, you'd be the soops, chill,

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Speaker 4: so chill. Yeah, you could have it all.

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Speaker 3: Because let's definitely talk about how easy it is to

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Speaker 3: have four children, because that's just the truth.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, super easy. So let's make that seem like

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Speaker 4: it's not stressful. I'm gonna I'm gonna laugh this whole

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Speaker 4: short and sweet. You know I'm when I hand the

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Speaker 4: mic to you. Yeah, okay, let's do it as a

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Speaker 4: four kid expert.

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Speaker 3: There's no such thing, okay. So I mean again, I

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Speaker 3: always have follow up questions. So it really just depends

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Speaker 3: on who you are. That's the number one thing to say.

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Speaker 3: But I was thinking about the different because obviously you

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Speaker 3: go from one to two to three to four, and

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Speaker 3: I was trying to think about what it was like

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Speaker 3: when there was.

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Speaker 4: One and when there was two and three.

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Speaker 3: All the difference is and I think, you know, going

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Speaker 3: in order, I think that one is definitely probably the

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Speaker 3: most challenging because it's all new. Yeah, and I definitely

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Speaker 3: remember having baby Luke on.

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Speaker 4: Day I don't know, well, I aus it was night

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Speaker 4: night two.

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Speaker 3: Or three, where I was like, I can't believe they

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Speaker 3: let me go home with him, Like how did they

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Speaker 3: let us go home with and we.

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Speaker 4: Don't know what we're doing? Yeah, it's no, it is terrifying.

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Speaker 2: That's when I maybe Number one is when I called

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Speaker 2: you and I said I don't know how to swaddle

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Speaker 2: and you're on.

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Speaker 4: The freeway and you're like, I'm coming over.

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Speaker 3: Oh, I remember that. I remember that call and I

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Speaker 3: remember that pull off the four or five. Actually think

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Speaker 3: it was the one on one anyways, So I think

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Speaker 3: one is definitely stressful or challenging or whatever word you

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Speaker 3: want to use.

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Speaker 4: Number two is a sneak attack because you're like, I

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Speaker 4: got this, I have by.

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Speaker 3: One, I know what I'm doing, I'm comfortable, I'm cozy,

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Speaker 3: I'm I'm I know things. Also, by the way, worth mentioning,

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Speaker 3: as I think everyone who's about to have a baby

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Speaker 3: or has number one acts like they're the first person

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Speaker 3: in the entire world to have a baby, Like do

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Speaker 3: you have did you ever have that thing where you're

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Speaker 3: just like it's not superiority, but you're just like, oh,

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Speaker 3: you're reading up on all the things, and so you're like, oh,

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Speaker 3: let me tell you this new study. Oh no, no, no,

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Speaker 3: we have tolic home this. Oh no, we have to

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Speaker 3: use organic that. I must have been insufferable.

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Speaker 2: I was. I have to tell you, I was not

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Speaker 2: that parent, Like I was not that, but but I

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Speaker 2: met that a lot.

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Speaker 3: That was me.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, no, I was not.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I would have did you take like Lama's class?

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Speaker 2: I didn't take one single birthing anything. I just thought

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Speaker 2: I could figure it out on the day.

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Speaker 4: Well, so many people have done it before us. That's

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Speaker 4: what I thought.

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Speaker 2: I was, like, what I just said, a little breathing,

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Speaker 2: a little push, Yeah, how hard can it be?

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Speaker 4: How hard can it be? Really hard? It turns out

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Speaker 4: it was really really hard to turn.

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Speaker 3: So I think two is the sneaky sneak attack because

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Speaker 3: you think you know it and then all of a

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Speaker 3: sudden they come and you're like, wait a second, but

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Speaker 3: who's going to take care of the first one while I.

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Speaker 4: Do the second one?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, because it turns out you got to take care

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Speaker 3: of both of them.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, And usually, like I imagine that most of the time,

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Speaker 5: you're probably dealing with a toddler, right, Like, so you

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Speaker 5: have toddler energy and then baby baby energy.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, that's that's the division.

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Speaker 3: And then I also remember getting home from the hospital

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Speaker 3: and wanting so badly for Luke's life to not be

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Speaker 3: affected by Eve that I was straight up like out

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Speaker 3: with him getting chicken tenders and fries the day after

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Speaker 3: I came home from the hospital, like sitting on my ice,

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Speaker 3: my ice. I still had ice in the underwear.

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Speaker 4: I was still using the spray thing. Oh yeah, the

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Speaker 4: numbing spray. Oh. Nobody told me about that. By the No,

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Speaker 4: they don't, they didn't know, they don't, they don't. They

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Speaker 4: don't tell you about that stuff before. They tell you after.

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Speaker 4: It's a better approach.

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Speaker 2: So wait, by baby number four, are you just like

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Speaker 2: with that spray?

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Speaker 4: No, you know, no, maybe this is the sweet spot.

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Speaker 4: Maybe number four you're like me, You're like, how many stitches? Twenty?

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Speaker 2: Fine?

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Speaker 4: Were good? It's fine.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, So two I think is and then too is

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Speaker 3: stressful for that reason, you're taking care of the first.

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Speaker 4: You don't even know that first one.

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Speaker 3: You haven't even known them for that long, probably right,

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Speaker 3: you've only known them a couple of years.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, you're a professional here.

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Speaker 3: Yeah they're they're new, you're new to them. Yeah, it's

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Speaker 3: still new. And then you got a real new, a

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Speaker 3: brand new. So you're learning that. And you know, we

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Speaker 3: just went straight into three. I mean, I look back

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Speaker 3: on it and I'm like, whatever you believe in, like

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Speaker 3: the forces, the life forces that Poppy James Gavigan.

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Speaker 4: Was coming in no matter what.

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Speaker 1: I'm in hot.

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Speaker 4: She was coming in.

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Speaker 3: Hot because I was ten, I had a ten month old,

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Speaker 3: I had a three year old, a ten month old,

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Speaker 3: and I got pregnant.

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Speaker 4: So Poppy's twenty months.

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Speaker 2: And I asked, you, did you can?

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Speaker 4: I ask if you plan that pregnancy? Yes, you planned

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Speaker 4: that pregnancy?

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Speaker 1: Yes?

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Speaker 4: Were you out of your mind? Oh my god? You

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Speaker 4: know what it is though about you? And I actually literally.

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Speaker 2: Just said this on set yesterday, because I was on

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Speaker 2: set yesterday and someone was I was, you know, there

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Speaker 2: is a pregnancy on the show.

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Speaker 4: Oh, and I was talking about being pregnant, and.

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Speaker 2: I was like, copshot. You know we've talked about how

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Speaker 2: you are walking false.

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Speaker 4: Advertisement for pregnancy.

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Speaker 2: I think that you were probably okay getting pregnant again

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Speaker 2: at ten months, as you like pregnancy, I do, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 2: so it's not me. I would have been like, there's

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Speaker 2: no way I'm planning that pregnancy at ten months. Okay,

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Speaker 2: So ten months, Poppies coming in hot.

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Speaker 4: So Poppy's coming in hot. I'm pregnant again. And then

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Speaker 4: when the third.

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Speaker 3: I remember the beginning of what probably completely happened with

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Speaker 3: the fourth, which is the surrender. It was the beginning

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Speaker 3: of the surrender. It was like, I'm I'm really out numbered.

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Speaker 4: I really don't.

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Speaker 3: I mean, like, on any given day, is it safe

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Speaker 3: for me to have them alone?

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Speaker 1: Well, that's what that's what don't I.

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Speaker 3: Need someone I don't care who to be honest, Experts

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Speaker 3: say that after three parents hit survival mode and let

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Speaker 3: go of perfection.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, well I didn't.

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Speaker 3: I am a recovering perfectionist. I am a recovering people.

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Speaker 4: Please, you did not let go of perfection.

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Speaker 2: I have been over to your house many times, and

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Speaker 2: the organization is like expert level in your household.

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Speaker 4: It runs efficiently.

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Speaker 3: Will you see the organization as attempts at perfectionism. I

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Speaker 3: get that it actually is when you think about it.

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Speaker 3: The amount of time that I put into the organization

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Speaker 3: actually makes my life easier. So the organization is actually

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Speaker 3: survival Yeah, survival mode and like a there's a method

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Speaker 3: to my my mat It's like I'm I'm investing now

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Speaker 3: to get a little bit more payoff later when I'm organizing.

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Speaker 3: But I think that that was when there's started to

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Speaker 3: be some surrender and I it's a real reckoning with

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Speaker 3: I can't do it all.

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Speaker 4: I can't do it all, and I need help. I

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Speaker 4: need help with all the things.

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Speaker 3: Like I've always had help, Like you know, Christopher's an

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Speaker 3: incredible father, like super hands on, always there. I love

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Speaker 3: when people say the fathers are hands on, like what

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Speaker 3: are they going to hands off?

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Speaker 4: He hands off?

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Speaker 3: So you know, incredible father and and I have incredible family.

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Speaker 3: So it's you know, it's it's not like I was

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Speaker 3: ever alone, but I think that sometimes you're alone with

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Speaker 3: your thoughts.

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Speaker 4: Or you can make it.

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Speaker 3: You can put that pressure on yourself like I gotta

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Speaker 3: do this, you know, I gotta do this, and I

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Speaker 3: gotta do.

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Speaker 4: That, and that can make you feel alone.

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Speaker 3: It's not the people around you that make you feel alone,

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Speaker 3: it's yours you.

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Speaker 4: And I I think that I.

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Speaker 3: Started to understand definitely absolutely, in no way, shape or

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Speaker 3: form could you could I and and then and then

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Speaker 3: there was the little break, right because if they if

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Speaker 3: even Poppy were twenty months apart, then.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, Poppy and Josie are almost four years apart. There

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Speaker 4: was a break, and then.

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Speaker 3: It was kind of like, oh gosh, you know, oh

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Speaker 3: is there another is there another baby that's coming?

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Speaker 4: And then and then there was and now I can

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Speaker 4: say that four is pretty great.

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Speaker 2: I can't picture you without for yeah, like your crew

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Speaker 2: is like you're you got a squad, you got a.

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Speaker 4: Squad going over there. Yeah, and well now they're really all.

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Speaker 3: Such different ages I know, and I think gender probably

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Speaker 3: contributes to because I mean, I do think that they

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Speaker 3: do become like a pack and sometimes that works for

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Speaker 3: you and sometimes that works against you. I find the

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Speaker 3: most stressful thing the fighting, and I don't it's just

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Speaker 3: it's I didn't grow up fighting with my siblings, also

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Speaker 3: because I was like substantially older, like there was a

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Speaker 3: drop off after me. But I didn't fight with my siblings,

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Speaker 3: and uh so I don't I would. Actually, I'm realizing

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Speaker 3: this about myself in life lately. I don't really feel

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Speaker 3: like I'm not all that good at fighting. Like I

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Speaker 3: think there's actually an efficient and like a good way fighting,

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Speaker 3: like being fair so interesting. Well, and that's what I

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Speaker 3: keep saying to the kids.

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Speaker 4: I feel like we've talked about this before, but it was.

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Speaker 3: It's that idea that you're actually not you're you're meant

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Speaker 3: to fight, but the secret is you need to fight. Well, yes,

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Speaker 3: we've talked about that, yeah, yeah, and I didn't really

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Speaker 3: learn that. So when my kids start fighting sometimes, well

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Speaker 3: I used to get a lot more stressed out about

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Speaker 3: it because I wanted to fix it right away, Like

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Speaker 3: I wanted.

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Speaker 4: The fight to be over. I wanted them to get

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Speaker 4: to the good part, the part where.

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Speaker 3: They say and sometimes you just got to sit in

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Speaker 3: the there's a little bit of surrender there too.

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Speaker 4: You're like, all right, just don't kill each other, don't

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Speaker 4: hurt each other. This is so interesting to me.

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Speaker 2: Okay, I want to know how you navigate this because

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Speaker 2: I have obviously my kids are eight and five, so

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Speaker 2: it's a little bit different.

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Speaker 4: And they're like, I mean, they're arguing over the stupidest

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Speaker 4: all the time.

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Speaker 2: Do you let the girls, because the girls are in

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Speaker 2: the house right now, do you let if they're in

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Speaker 2: a fight? Do you find that like the third one

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Speaker 2: wants to take a side? And you're like, how you

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Speaker 2: navigating the two against one?

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Speaker 4: Potentially? Because that's what I.

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Speaker 2: Didn't like growing right, I didn't like, like, you know,

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Speaker 2: that kind of dynamic.

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Speaker 3: Usually it's usually it's actually only ever one on one.

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Speaker 4: But that's so good. So the other one isn't getting involved? No,

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Speaker 4: not really, not really. Oh that's good. That's good. I

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Speaker 4: don't know if it's good or bad. It's just that's

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Speaker 4: how they do. That's how they do.

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Speaker 2: Do you think that because I've thought of it about

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Speaker 2: this too. I literally talked about having more kids the

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Speaker 2: other day, not that I'm having more kids, just like the.

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Speaker 4: Conversation of it.

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Speaker 2: And I don't know if I would be as good

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Speaker 2: of a mom in a way to like more than

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Speaker 2: my two. I feel like I just have like I

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Speaker 2: feel like i'd start to tap out, yeah, a little bit,

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Speaker 2: because it's like you're just juggling so many balls. Do

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Speaker 2: I think feel that way with four? Or do you

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Speaker 2: feel like I can give every I can still do it,

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Speaker 2: or maybe that's an individual thing where like I can't

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Speaker 2: but you can't.

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Speaker 3: I think it's so individual. I think everybody has a

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Speaker 3: different breaking point. Everybody has. You know, the thing that

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Speaker 3: super stresses me out may not be stressful to you

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Speaker 3: at all. So it's like, really, I mean, I think

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Speaker 3: it's so fascinating that people like to talk about parenting

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Speaker 3: because it's just such a unique experience.

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Speaker 4: I think. I think the.

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Speaker 3: Reason why people like to talk about it is because

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Speaker 3: it's great to hear other perspectives. It's nice and it's

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Speaker 3: nice to and if you're in an environment where you're

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Speaker 3: not judging each other and you're not you know, telling

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Speaker 3: each other what to do, you're just sharing your experience,

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Speaker 3: you know, because again, I don't know, there's there's some

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Speaker 3: there's certain days that I could truly answer that I

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Speaker 3: find that I'm that I don't think that it's too much,

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Speaker 3: and that I I would report complete happiness and satisfaction

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Speaker 3: and having.

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Speaker 4: Four and yeah, yay.

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Speaker 3: But then there's other days where I'm like, I mean,

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Speaker 3: you know, we've we've talked about this too. They'll they'll

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Speaker 3: once they get school age, they'll they'll get you with

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Speaker 3: those admin all that admin stuff that that that like

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Speaker 3: who just all the pay pit well, the non paperwork.

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Speaker 2: I think it's also like the part that's like now

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Speaker 2: they're having interests that one wants to do gymnastics, one

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Speaker 2: wants to do soccer. Now you're here now, I literally

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Speaker 2: don't know how you do.

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Speaker 4: It with four.

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Speaker 2: Like even with two when Lucasy is young, he doesn't

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Speaker 2: have a lot going on, he's little. Once they're like

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Speaker 2: I just don't understand, Like just purely the amount that

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Speaker 2: you're driving kids around in the car with four just

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Speaker 2: blows my mind.

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Speaker 3: Yeah you do, and then and you're like good until

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Speaker 3: you're not. It's funny. I had a bunch of driving

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Speaker 3: to do the other day and I was like, thum, cool,

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Speaker 3: We're chilling in the car, and then I got out

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Speaker 3: and all of a sudden, Guy, I truly I became

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Speaker 3: It was like Burgergad all over again.

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Speaker 4: I roared. I was like, it just hit my limit.

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Speaker 4: Like nobody talked to me. I'm driving you all. I

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Speaker 4: blame them, you know, like I've been driving out a

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Speaker 4: day for you.

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Speaker 3: They're like, actually, it's just called getting where I need

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Speaker 3: to be. Make it a personal This isn't about you, mom, keep.

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Speaker 4: Fine, it's not about me. My god.

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Speaker 2: Do you think it helped that you grew up and

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Speaker 2: then your mom had so many kids?

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Speaker 4: Yeah?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I grew up very familiar with lots

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Speaker 3: of people, and I find that it's such an emotional hug,

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Speaker 3: Like I love being around all of them, and so

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Speaker 3: I just you know.

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Speaker 4: It's great. Listen, it's worked out for me. I think

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Speaker 4: it's not for everyone.

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Speaker 3: I think it's fascinating when people come out with these

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Speaker 3: studies that say, you know, one.

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Speaker 4: Is the best or two is the best is the best?

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Speaker 3: I think that this is just a nice, little, nice

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Speaker 3: little chuckle. I think that I think there's always going

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Speaker 3: to be chaos and there's always going to be peace

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Speaker 3: and that's just that's what you sign up for when

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Speaker 3: you when you have any amount of kids. And I

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Speaker 3: think what's so important that I don't think it gets

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Speaker 3: said enough is however many kids you want to have,

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Speaker 3: is exactly how many kids you have? Yeah, you know

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Speaker 3: what I mean, Like, it's so personal. I love when

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Speaker 3: people own, like, you know what, I'm good with one. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: you know what, I'm going to have ten and you

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Speaker 3: can all have your opinions about it, and I don't care.

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Speaker 4: You know, it's so true.

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Speaker 2: I think it's a knowing about yourself.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it's a knowing.

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Speaker 2: It's like how we've talked so many times about like

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Speaker 2: after three, you're like, there's one more, yes, yes, And

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Speaker 2: after two I was like, there's definitely none.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, there's none. There's no more?

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Speaker 3: Is it?

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Speaker 4: This is what we got? Yeah?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, all right, let's call it just the end of

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Speaker 2: the episode.