1 00:00:02,360 --> 00:00:05,560 Speaker 1: Happy Saturday, everybody. Hey, if you have listened to this 2 00:00:05,600 --> 00:00:08,200 Speaker 1: week's episodes on is a Door duncan you have heard 3 00:00:08,280 --> 00:00:11,200 Speaker 1: us talk in a listener mail about recent research into 4 00:00:11,200 --> 00:00:15,480 Speaker 1: the cause of the love past incident. Uh? That includes 5 00:00:15,800 --> 00:00:18,560 Speaker 1: Monday's email from listener Kiki, who hinted that we might 6 00:00:18,640 --> 00:00:22,840 Speaker 1: run that episode, which originally came out on October as 7 00:00:22,880 --> 00:00:27,000 Speaker 1: a Saturday Classic. So when we read kikiS email, we 8 00:00:27,200 --> 00:00:30,720 Speaker 1: genuinely thought we had done that already, but there was 9 00:00:30,800 --> 00:00:35,320 Speaker 1: so much back and forth about it. If we have 10 00:00:35,520 --> 00:00:38,680 Speaker 1: already done this as a Saturday Classic, we sure cannot 11 00:00:38,760 --> 00:00:42,000 Speaker 1: find evidence of it anywhere. So here it is, by request, 12 00:00:42,800 --> 00:00:50,640 Speaker 1: our previous episode on the love Past incidents. Enjoy Welcome 13 00:00:50,720 --> 00:00:53,400 Speaker 1: to stuff you missed in History Class A production of 14 00:00:53,479 --> 00:01:02,960 Speaker 1: I Heart Radio. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. And 15 00:01:03,000 --> 00:01:07,160 Speaker 1: I'm Tracy V. Wilson and we're creeping up into Halloween territory, 16 00:01:07,400 --> 00:01:10,560 Speaker 1: my favorite time of year, so it's time for a 17 00:01:10,600 --> 00:01:14,440 Speaker 1: little brush with the mysterious, the unknown, and believed by 18 00:01:14,520 --> 00:01:19,280 Speaker 1: some to be paranormal. Uh. This story isn't exactly spooky, 19 00:01:19,319 --> 00:01:21,280 Speaker 1: depending on your definition of that word, but it is 20 00:01:21,400 --> 00:01:24,679 Speaker 1: quite unsettling in many ways. Uh. If you were to 21 00:01:24,760 --> 00:01:27,840 Speaker 1: just do a quick Google search on the Diatlov past incident, 22 00:01:28,240 --> 00:01:32,280 Speaker 1: you will instantly turn up dozens and dozens heading into 23 00:01:32,280 --> 00:01:37,520 Speaker 1: the hundreds of sites that focus on paranormal investigation, conspiracy theories, 24 00:01:37,560 --> 00:01:41,000 Speaker 1: and even cryptozoology in some cases. This is really a 25 00:01:41,040 --> 00:01:45,440 Speaker 1: tragic piece of Russian history. It happened during Soviet era 26 00:01:46,000 --> 00:01:50,000 Speaker 1: Russia in Siberia, and it's never really been fully explained, 27 00:01:50,040 --> 00:01:52,520 Speaker 1: and as a consequence, there is an entire culture of 28 00:01:52,600 --> 00:01:56,640 Speaker 1: theorization that has kind of grown up around it. So 29 00:01:57,240 --> 00:01:59,280 Speaker 1: today we're going to talk about what we actually know 30 00:01:59,360 --> 00:02:02,600 Speaker 1: about this do hiking expedition, and then some of the 31 00:02:02,600 --> 00:02:04,880 Speaker 1: theories about it, as well as some of the less 32 00:02:04,920 --> 00:02:09,880 Speaker 1: fantastical possibilities in terms of explanation of what happened that day. Uh. 33 00:02:09,919 --> 00:02:12,240 Speaker 1: And we need to give a little morning on this one. 34 00:02:12,680 --> 00:02:15,040 Speaker 1: Some of this information could be a little upsetting if 35 00:02:15,120 --> 00:02:18,320 Speaker 1: you are squeamish to corpse talk. Uh. There are some 36 00:02:18,400 --> 00:02:21,480 Speaker 1: injury related details that are Germaine to the story that 37 00:02:21,639 --> 00:02:23,480 Speaker 1: I know. When I was relaying them to my husband, 38 00:02:23,480 --> 00:02:25,720 Speaker 1: Brian kind of gave him what we call the hus 39 00:02:25,720 --> 00:02:30,000 Speaker 1: where you kind of go. Uh. So, if you are 40 00:02:30,040 --> 00:02:33,440 Speaker 1: a little bit squeamish about details of how dead bodies 41 00:02:33,480 --> 00:02:35,679 Speaker 1: have been found and things that had happened to them. 42 00:02:36,040 --> 00:02:38,639 Speaker 1: Just know that you might want to proceed with caution here, 43 00:02:38,720 --> 00:02:40,919 Speaker 1: or if you have kids that might be affected by that, 44 00:02:41,120 --> 00:02:42,919 Speaker 1: this might be a good one to listen to before 45 00:02:42,960 --> 00:02:46,440 Speaker 1: you share with them. Uh. So we're going to talk 46 00:02:46,560 --> 00:02:50,080 Speaker 1: about the DApp Love past incident today, and if you 47 00:02:50,120 --> 00:02:54,320 Speaker 1: are fans of our colleagues podcasts stuff they don't want 48 00:02:54,320 --> 00:02:56,919 Speaker 1: you to know, you may have gotten a very brief 49 00:02:56,919 --> 00:03:00,400 Speaker 1: glimpse at this already. Yeah, there's like, it's a couple 50 00:03:00,440 --> 00:03:03,120 Speaker 1: of minutes of video, and I feel like we should 51 00:03:03,160 --> 00:03:06,000 Speaker 1: mention at the outset Tracy. Neither Tracy nor and I 52 00:03:06,120 --> 00:03:09,280 Speaker 1: are Slavic language speakers, so our pronunciation on names might 53 00:03:09,280 --> 00:03:13,480 Speaker 1: be a little dicey. We looked online for pronunciations of 54 00:03:13,760 --> 00:03:16,560 Speaker 1: all of these words, and they're shockingly difficult to find 55 00:03:16,600 --> 00:03:21,560 Speaker 1: anybody like a native speaker recorded saying them. So I 56 00:03:21,639 --> 00:03:25,280 Speaker 1: kind of went by, uh things that I have heard 57 00:03:25,680 --> 00:03:32,040 Speaker 1: other you know, historical documentaries using their pronunciation, and hopefully 58 00:03:32,040 --> 00:03:34,480 Speaker 1: we will offend no one if we are terribly wrong 59 00:03:34,520 --> 00:03:36,640 Speaker 1: in pronunciation. It is not out of a desire to 60 00:03:36,640 --> 00:03:42,720 Speaker 1: be disrespectful. In January of ninety nine, a group of 61 00:03:42,760 --> 00:03:46,560 Speaker 1: young Russian hikers and ski enthusiasts was preparing for an 62 00:03:46,600 --> 00:03:51,120 Speaker 1: adventure in the Ural Mountains uh And. This group consisted 63 00:03:51,200 --> 00:03:59,040 Speaker 1: of Uri Union, Ludmilla Dubnina, Zenaida Komo Garova, Alexander Kolovadov, 64 00:03:59,440 --> 00:04:06,400 Speaker 1: Rustum's sloban In, Uri kriven Ashenko, Uri Doroshenko, Nikolai Tibou 65 00:04:06,480 --> 00:04:11,560 Speaker 1: Bryno uh Simon Zola, Zola Tyev and the group's leader, 66 00:04:11,680 --> 00:04:15,920 Speaker 1: Igor Dyatlov, who the past eventually became named after him 67 00:04:15,960 --> 00:04:18,600 Speaker 1: since he was widely recognized as the leader of this group. 68 00:04:19,560 --> 00:04:21,760 Speaker 1: Most of the members of the group were students at 69 00:04:21,800 --> 00:04:26,040 Speaker 1: euro Polytechnical Institute and they were all experienced hikers. The 70 00:04:26,160 --> 00:04:28,080 Speaker 1: route that they had mapped out was a challenging one, 71 00:04:28,400 --> 00:04:30,240 Speaker 1: but they were all pretty much up for it. It 72 00:04:30,320 --> 00:04:34,279 Speaker 1: would have been a daunting but doable plan, so they 73 00:04:34,320 --> 00:04:37,839 Speaker 1: were not, you know, running in a foolhardy manner into 74 00:04:37,920 --> 00:04:41,240 Speaker 1: something that was way beyond them no and Dyatlov had 75 00:04:41,279 --> 00:04:44,360 Speaker 1: been hiking this route before, so he was familiar with it. 76 00:04:45,080 --> 00:04:48,160 Speaker 1: Uh And to begin, they traveled by train to Ivdl 77 00:04:48,279 --> 00:04:51,560 Speaker 1: in the Sferdlovsk province, and from the here they took 78 00:04:51,600 --> 00:04:53,880 Speaker 1: a truck to the last sort of town that some 79 00:04:53,960 --> 00:04:56,479 Speaker 1: people will call it an outpost or a settlement before 80 00:04:56,520 --> 00:04:58,840 Speaker 1: their run at the mountain. And while they were there, 81 00:04:58,880 --> 00:05:02,440 Speaker 1: in that last set moment, You're a Union actually became 82 00:05:02,520 --> 00:05:05,720 Speaker 1: quite sick. He was going to be unable to handle 83 00:05:05,760 --> 00:05:09,520 Speaker 1: the rigors of the trip, so he stayed behind. Igordiatlov 84 00:05:09,680 --> 00:05:11,920 Speaker 1: told his sick friend that he would send a message 85 00:05:12,400 --> 00:05:15,480 Speaker 1: as soon as they were back from their expedition, and 86 00:05:15,800 --> 00:05:19,040 Speaker 1: the estimated return date was two weeks later, which was 87 00:05:19,160 --> 00:05:23,160 Speaker 1: February twelve, and so without your Union, the rest of 88 00:05:23,200 --> 00:05:27,160 Speaker 1: the party set out on January ninety nine, and that 89 00:05:27,440 --> 00:05:30,360 Speaker 1: was the last time anyone outside that group would see 90 00:05:30,360 --> 00:05:34,120 Speaker 1: any of them alive. According to their diaries, they set 91 00:05:34,200 --> 00:05:37,000 Speaker 1: off through the past, but they lost their way because 92 00:05:37,000 --> 00:05:40,080 Speaker 1: of bad weather and they wound up going farther west 93 00:05:40,160 --> 00:05:43,640 Speaker 1: than they meant to. When they realized their mistake, they 94 00:05:43,760 --> 00:05:47,000 Speaker 1: set up camp, and this was February second, so it 95 00:05:47,080 --> 00:05:50,120 Speaker 1: had only been a few days into their trip. They 96 00:05:50,160 --> 00:05:53,600 Speaker 1: were only about a kilometer away from an expanse of 97 00:05:53,720 --> 00:05:56,400 Speaker 1: forests that would have offered them some shelter. So it's 98 00:05:56,480 --> 00:05:58,920 Speaker 1: kind of unclear why they didn't head into the woods 99 00:05:59,600 --> 00:06:03,920 Speaker 1: he yea. Some have theorized that dat Lav did not 100 00:06:04,320 --> 00:06:06,800 Speaker 1: want to head towards the woods because it would have 101 00:06:06,839 --> 00:06:09,120 Speaker 1: involved backtracking, and they were kind of trying to get 102 00:06:09,160 --> 00:06:12,279 Speaker 1: their bearings on how far they had drifted off course 103 00:06:12,400 --> 00:06:13,920 Speaker 1: and where they were going to go next, and he 104 00:06:14,040 --> 00:06:17,200 Speaker 1: may not have wanted to backtrack, not knowing, but we 105 00:06:17,400 --> 00:06:20,840 Speaker 1: really don't know why they didn't. So dad Lav, it 106 00:06:20,920 --> 00:06:23,400 Speaker 1: turned out, did not contact Uri or he was gonna 107 00:06:23,720 --> 00:06:26,320 Speaker 1: send a message to their sports club, which would then 108 00:06:26,320 --> 00:06:29,640 Speaker 1: really messages out on February twelve, as he had said 109 00:06:29,720 --> 00:06:32,120 Speaker 1: he would, But at that point Uton was not really 110 00:06:32,200 --> 00:06:37,039 Speaker 1: concerned hiking trips through snowy mountain train could easily experience delays. 111 00:06:37,440 --> 00:06:39,840 Speaker 1: Uh dead Lav had even told him it could be 112 00:06:40,000 --> 00:06:42,760 Speaker 1: a couple of days after that. But eventually a week 113 00:06:42,839 --> 00:06:46,200 Speaker 1: had gone by after the expected return date and there 114 00:06:46,240 --> 00:06:48,720 Speaker 1: had been no news from the young hikers, and so 115 00:06:48,920 --> 00:06:54,000 Speaker 1: friends and families, for obvious reasons, became very concerned. Authorities 116 00:06:54,080 --> 00:06:58,280 Speaker 1: were alerted and an investigation was mounted. On February twenty, 117 00:06:58,560 --> 00:07:01,039 Speaker 1: the search team set out to for the missing hikers, 118 00:07:02,200 --> 00:07:04,960 Speaker 1: and for almost a week, the searchers found absolutely nothing. 119 00:07:05,320 --> 00:07:07,719 Speaker 1: And then and remember they were not in the same 120 00:07:07,760 --> 00:07:09,640 Speaker 1: place that they were expected to have been, so that 121 00:07:09,760 --> 00:07:12,240 Speaker 1: was part of the delay in finding them. Uh. And 122 00:07:12,320 --> 00:07:15,240 Speaker 1: then on the sixth day, the group's camp was discovered 123 00:07:15,400 --> 00:07:19,560 Speaker 1: on the eastern shoulder of Kolatako, which is a mountain uh. 124 00:07:19,680 --> 00:07:21,680 Speaker 1: And that name, in the language of the Manci people 125 00:07:21,760 --> 00:07:24,280 Speaker 1: who live in the area means dead mountain or mountain 126 00:07:24,320 --> 00:07:26,720 Speaker 1: of the dead, depending on which interpretation you see uh. 127 00:07:27,040 --> 00:07:29,720 Speaker 1: And no doubt this moniker has kind of helped contribute 128 00:07:29,760 --> 00:07:33,360 Speaker 1: to interest in the legend throughout the years. The tent 129 00:07:33,600 --> 00:07:38,480 Speaker 1: was torn open from the inside, which is creepy yes, yes, 130 00:07:39,440 --> 00:07:42,680 Speaker 1: and the hikers winter clothes, food, and skis were all 131 00:07:42,880 --> 00:07:46,520 Speaker 1: left behind. The footprints of eight or nine people were 132 00:07:46,560 --> 00:07:49,080 Speaker 1: found in the meter deep snow, and they were headed 133 00:07:49,160 --> 00:07:53,200 Speaker 1: down the mountain and towards the forest. Yeah. The footprints, 134 00:07:53,280 --> 00:07:56,760 Speaker 1: according to some descriptions, uh, initially looked like they scattered 135 00:07:56,800 --> 00:07:58,880 Speaker 1: in all directions, but then they kind of all headed 136 00:07:59,320 --> 00:08:02,120 Speaker 1: in the same direct and downward. Uh. And the day 137 00:08:02,240 --> 00:08:07,240 Speaker 1: after they found the camp, and it's sort of bizarre scenario, 138 00:08:07,880 --> 00:08:12,120 Speaker 1: the first of the bodies were found Uri Cravanashenko your 139 00:08:12,200 --> 00:08:16,120 Speaker 1: and Uri Dorishenko were found near the edge of the forest, 140 00:08:16,200 --> 00:08:20,000 Speaker 1: and they were only wearing their underclothes. It seemed like 141 00:08:20,160 --> 00:08:23,000 Speaker 1: they had set a fire, although it wouldn't have protected 142 00:08:23,080 --> 00:08:26,160 Speaker 1: them from the freezing cold for very long. Scrapings of 143 00:08:26,280 --> 00:08:29,520 Speaker 1: their skin was found in the bark of the trees nearby, 144 00:08:29,600 --> 00:08:32,200 Speaker 1: suggesting that maybe they had tried to climb up away 145 00:08:32,240 --> 00:08:35,640 Speaker 1: from something, or more likely to get a better view 146 00:08:35,880 --> 00:08:40,080 Speaker 1: of the surrounding area. Yeah, because remember there had been 147 00:08:40,120 --> 00:08:42,560 Speaker 1: a terrible storm that kind of caused them to lose 148 00:08:42,600 --> 00:08:44,280 Speaker 1: their bearings in the first place, so they may have 149 00:08:44,360 --> 00:08:47,000 Speaker 1: been just trying to figure out where they were. Uh. 150 00:08:47,160 --> 00:08:50,280 Speaker 1: Soon after the two juries were found, three other bodies, 151 00:08:50,400 --> 00:08:55,600 Speaker 1: so igor yatlov, Zina Kolmogorova and Rustum Slubadin were found 152 00:08:55,679 --> 00:08:59,319 Speaker 1: between those first two bodies and the campsite, and their 153 00:08:59,360 --> 00:09:02,839 Speaker 1: body position sans let investigators to speculate that they were 154 00:09:02,840 --> 00:09:05,280 Speaker 1: actually attempting to return to camp because they were all 155 00:09:05,320 --> 00:09:09,040 Speaker 1: facing the camp direction. Slubadon had a skull fracture, but 156 00:09:09,120 --> 00:09:12,680 Speaker 1: it was not believed to have been fatal. Two months 157 00:09:12,800 --> 00:09:15,880 Speaker 1: went by before the last four bodies were found in 158 00:09:15,920 --> 00:09:18,600 Speaker 1: a ravine, and that discovery was made on May four. 159 00:09:19,440 --> 00:09:23,760 Speaker 1: Their deaths were caused by trauma rather than hypothermia. Nicholas 160 00:09:23,840 --> 00:09:28,880 Speaker 1: tobou Bernol's skull was crushed. Alexander Zelitaryov, who was the 161 00:09:28,920 --> 00:09:30,920 Speaker 1: oldest of the group by far at the age of 162 00:09:30,960 --> 00:09:34,960 Speaker 1: thirty seven, had a whole lot of broken ribs, blood, 163 00:09:35,000 --> 00:09:39,520 Speaker 1: Milandemanina had broken ribs, and her tongue was gone. Yeah, 164 00:09:39,559 --> 00:09:41,640 Speaker 1: the missing tongue is often the thing that people go 165 00:09:41,880 --> 00:09:44,000 Speaker 1: and her tongue was gone, Like that's kind of one 166 00:09:44,040 --> 00:09:46,240 Speaker 1: of the stingers. In the ghost story versions of this, 167 00:09:47,679 --> 00:09:49,760 Speaker 1: all of the hikers that they found were either in 168 00:09:49,840 --> 00:09:53,120 Speaker 1: their underwear or sleeping clothes for the most part. Uh, 169 00:09:53,760 --> 00:09:55,839 Speaker 1: we'll get to a little bit more on that in 170 00:09:55,880 --> 00:09:57,959 Speaker 1: a second. And they were all either barefoot or in 171 00:09:58,040 --> 00:10:00,640 Speaker 1: stalking feet. It's believed one of and was wearing just 172 00:10:00,760 --> 00:10:04,520 Speaker 1: one shoe, So when they abandoned their tent, they were 173 00:10:04,559 --> 00:10:07,520 Speaker 1: basically walking into sub zero temperatures. I've seen it listed 174 00:10:07,559 --> 00:10:11,720 Speaker 1: as thirty degrees below fahrenheit. And some of the hikers, 175 00:10:12,080 --> 00:10:14,720 Speaker 1: particularly the ones found later, appeared to be wearing clothes 176 00:10:14,920 --> 00:10:20,120 Speaker 1: of others. So it's possible that um Kravonashenko and Drushenko 177 00:10:20,240 --> 00:10:23,679 Speaker 1: had died first and then their friends, disoriented and not 178 00:10:23,840 --> 00:10:25,960 Speaker 1: certain that they were going to be able to find Camp, 179 00:10:26,280 --> 00:10:28,920 Speaker 1: had taken what clothes they had been wearing, because remember, 180 00:10:28,960 --> 00:10:31,800 Speaker 1: they were found in just their underwear in a desperate 181 00:10:31,840 --> 00:10:34,640 Speaker 1: attempt to kind of buy time by covering themselves just 182 00:10:34,760 --> 00:10:38,000 Speaker 1: a little bit more. Dr Boris Bazra's Denny was the 183 00:10:38,080 --> 00:10:42,199 Speaker 1: medical examiner in charge of the autopsies. It was determined 184 00:10:42,280 --> 00:10:45,640 Speaker 1: that the first five bodies which were found had all 185 00:10:45,760 --> 00:10:49,600 Speaker 1: died of hypothermia and the cases of skull and riped fractures. 186 00:10:49,679 --> 00:10:52,080 Speaker 1: He determined that the force that caused the injuries would 187 00:10:52,080 --> 00:10:54,480 Speaker 1: have been on par with that of an automobile crash. 188 00:10:55,480 --> 00:10:59,080 Speaker 1: Because of a large amount of blood found in Ladmiller's stomach, 189 00:10:59,640 --> 00:11:02,400 Speaker 1: it was believe that she was alive when her tongue 190 00:11:02,480 --> 00:11:05,000 Speaker 1: was severed and that she had swallowed the blood that 191 00:11:05,120 --> 00:11:08,520 Speaker 1: resulted from the injury. Yeah, that comes up as being 192 00:11:08,640 --> 00:11:11,040 Speaker 1: kind of a tricky part of the equation when people 193 00:11:11,080 --> 00:11:14,719 Speaker 1: are trying to theorize what happened. Um. There was a 194 00:11:15,000 --> 00:11:18,000 Speaker 1: very brief speculation early on in the investigation that the 195 00:11:18,080 --> 00:11:20,959 Speaker 1: Mancy people that were living in the area may have 196 00:11:21,040 --> 00:11:25,079 Speaker 1: attacked the hikers, considering them to be interlopers on their land, 197 00:11:25,440 --> 00:11:27,880 Speaker 1: but there was really no sign of struggle or combat, 198 00:11:28,520 --> 00:11:32,040 Speaker 1: so that theory kind of got put to bed very quickly. 199 00:11:32,240 --> 00:11:34,480 Speaker 1: You know, humans could not have caused the damage that 200 00:11:34,640 --> 00:11:37,480 Speaker 1: was detailed in those autopsy findings. In the end, the 201 00:11:37,559 --> 00:11:40,640 Speaker 1: medical examiner ruled that the students had been the victims 202 00:11:40,679 --> 00:11:46,240 Speaker 1: of quote A compelling unknown force, and with that, the 203 00:11:46,320 --> 00:11:49,520 Speaker 1: official Soviet investigation of the case was shut down in 204 00:11:49,679 --> 00:11:52,520 Speaker 1: May nine, just a few months after it was begun. 205 00:11:53,520 --> 00:11:55,920 Speaker 1: The cases files and the reports were closed and they 206 00:11:55,960 --> 00:11:59,680 Speaker 1: were archived. The area where the camp and the bodies 207 00:11:59,720 --> 00:12:02,319 Speaker 1: had been found was kept off limits to other explorers 208 00:12:02,440 --> 00:12:06,360 Speaker 1: for several years. Some people point to this as proof 209 00:12:06,440 --> 00:12:09,280 Speaker 1: that there was a cover up, but it's entirely likely 210 00:12:09,440 --> 00:12:11,880 Speaker 1: that the officials simply did not want to risk losing 211 00:12:12,000 --> 00:12:15,320 Speaker 1: anyone else to whatever killed the nine members of the party. 212 00:12:17,000 --> 00:12:20,160 Speaker 1: In the nine nineties, photo copies of the case files 213 00:12:20,200 --> 00:12:22,640 Speaker 1: that have been locked away for decades were released to 214 00:12:22,800 --> 00:12:26,080 Speaker 1: the public, but they were incomplete. There are some gaps, 215 00:12:26,120 --> 00:12:29,520 Speaker 1: they're missing pages. Uh. That's another thing, of course, that 216 00:12:29,600 --> 00:12:32,480 Speaker 1: people like to point out as a part of a 217 00:12:32,520 --> 00:12:35,880 Speaker 1: conspiracy theory. Later on, I think we should also point 218 00:12:35,920 --> 00:12:39,960 Speaker 1: out that at that point the U leadership of Russia 219 00:12:40,000 --> 00:12:44,719 Speaker 1: had changed, and it had been four decades. There's not 220 00:12:44,920 --> 00:12:48,319 Speaker 1: always when it comes to archival situations. Things are not 221 00:12:48,400 --> 00:12:52,680 Speaker 1: always handled with kid gloves or properly. Things get misfiled. 222 00:12:52,720 --> 00:12:56,120 Speaker 1: So those are also potential things everyone wants to jump 223 00:12:56,200 --> 00:12:58,040 Speaker 1: to cover up. And I'm not saying that there couldn't 224 00:12:58,080 --> 00:13:00,120 Speaker 1: have been one, but you also have to consider them 225 00:13:00,120 --> 00:13:05,079 Speaker 1: were mundane elements. UH. And as the story of the 226 00:13:05,160 --> 00:13:08,719 Speaker 1: Diatlov Pass incident has persisted through the years, there have 227 00:13:08,840 --> 00:13:11,160 Speaker 1: been additional details that have kind of been woven into 228 00:13:11,160 --> 00:13:14,400 Speaker 1: the fabric of the story. Some versions mentioned that the 229 00:13:14,480 --> 00:13:18,920 Speaker 1: hikers and their clothing were highly radioactive, and there are 230 00:13:18,960 --> 00:13:22,440 Speaker 1: also alleged eyewitness accounts from other hikers who were south 231 00:13:22,520 --> 00:13:26,000 Speaker 1: of the area that described glowing orange lights in the 232 00:13:26,160 --> 00:13:32,120 Speaker 1: sky above the mountains, but those details really are hotly debated. UH. 233 00:13:32,240 --> 00:13:35,120 Speaker 1: There's little to nothing in the officially released records about 234 00:13:35,160 --> 00:13:38,600 Speaker 1: these two points. So depending on which blog, message board, 235 00:13:38,800 --> 00:13:42,360 Speaker 1: or news article you venture into to read, UH, some 236 00:13:42,600 --> 00:13:45,160 Speaker 1: will play up these points and kind of sensationalize them, 237 00:13:45,360 --> 00:13:47,920 Speaker 1: and some will dismiss the radiation as a normal trace 238 00:13:48,160 --> 00:13:51,000 Speaker 1: level amount. UH. And the light as either being a 239 00:13:51,080 --> 00:13:54,160 Speaker 1: false recollection on the part of the witnesses, or a 240 00:13:54,280 --> 00:13:58,280 Speaker 1: natural phenomenon that the viewers simply misunderstood or didn't recognize 241 00:13:58,320 --> 00:14:03,559 Speaker 1: for what it was, or a crackpot theory. That's my addition. 242 00:14:04,760 --> 00:14:07,920 Speaker 1: Lev Ivanov, an investigator who had worked on the case, 243 00:14:08,320 --> 00:14:13,000 Speaker 1: claimed in an interview in that he took several eyewitness 244 00:14:13,080 --> 00:14:17,360 Speaker 1: accounts describing brightly flying spears, but he was told to 245 00:14:17,440 --> 00:14:22,720 Speaker 1: close the case. Yeah, and again we don't we know 246 00:14:22,840 --> 00:14:28,640 Speaker 1: that eyewitness accounts of any event are always uh a 247 00:14:28,720 --> 00:14:32,160 Speaker 1: little bit suspect. People's memories failed them, not through any nefarious, 248 00:14:33,080 --> 00:14:36,440 Speaker 1: you know, desire, They just they're not always correct. There is, Yeah, 249 00:14:36,480 --> 00:14:39,520 Speaker 1: there is an increasing body of scholarly work about how 250 00:14:39,760 --> 00:14:44,640 Speaker 1: hugely unreliable eyewitness accounts are. Yeah. Uh. And next up 251 00:14:44,760 --> 00:14:46,800 Speaker 1: we are going to talk about some of the theories 252 00:14:47,320 --> 00:14:50,080 Speaker 1: as to just what exactly might have happened to those 253 00:14:50,160 --> 00:14:53,880 Speaker 1: hikers in Siberia. There are many possibilities and innumerable theories. 254 00:14:54,400 --> 00:14:56,680 Speaker 1: We will not talk about all of them exhaustively, but 255 00:14:56,760 --> 00:14:58,600 Speaker 1: we want to cover some of the more kind of 256 00:14:58,640 --> 00:15:02,240 Speaker 1: popular and well known ones. But before we get to that, Tracy, 257 00:15:02,320 --> 00:15:03,960 Speaker 1: do you want to have a word from our sponsor. Yes, 258 00:15:04,040 --> 00:15:16,680 Speaker 1: I do. So. When you have an unsolved mystery that 259 00:15:16,840 --> 00:15:20,960 Speaker 1: stretches on for decades, especially an unsolved mystery that has 260 00:15:21,040 --> 00:15:24,200 Speaker 1: some really weird details that have been there since the beginning, 261 00:15:24,920 --> 00:15:27,680 Speaker 1: lots of theories crop up around it. And there are 262 00:15:27,840 --> 00:15:32,560 Speaker 1: several that have cropped up around this incident over the years. Uh. Yeah, 263 00:15:32,720 --> 00:15:36,200 Speaker 1: one that actually is kind of recent eat earlier this year, 264 00:15:36,720 --> 00:15:39,960 Speaker 1: Discovery are to show that blended fiction and documentary to 265 00:15:40,120 --> 00:15:42,520 Speaker 1: pitch the idea that a Russian yetti had claimed the 266 00:15:42,600 --> 00:15:46,040 Speaker 1: lives of the nine hikers. I will be super blunt 267 00:15:46,120 --> 00:15:50,600 Speaker 1: and say that this was not well received. Well, that 268 00:15:50,640 --> 00:15:52,440 Speaker 1: it's funny because when we get to the part about 269 00:15:52,480 --> 00:15:54,960 Speaker 1: the tent being ripped open from the inside, my first 270 00:15:54,960 --> 00:16:00,320 Speaker 1: self his thought is werewolf. I didn't even think about that. Yeah. 271 00:16:00,640 --> 00:16:03,320 Speaker 1: So one theory that also does not have much traction 272 00:16:03,960 --> 00:16:07,280 Speaker 1: is that escaped prisoners from a gulag attacked them. But 273 00:16:07,640 --> 00:16:10,000 Speaker 1: there was nothing taken from the camp and there was 274 00:16:10,080 --> 00:16:13,200 Speaker 1: no sign of that sort of struggle. I mean, people 275 00:16:13,280 --> 00:16:15,920 Speaker 1: clearly had some traumatic injuries, but there were no sign 276 00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:19,920 Speaker 1: that they resulted from a fight with someone. Yeah, they 277 00:16:20,000 --> 00:16:25,080 Speaker 1: really didn't have any external damage. There is another theory 278 00:16:25,200 --> 00:16:31,160 Speaker 1: that uh, the entire group had eaten contaminated food. One 279 00:16:31,200 --> 00:16:33,040 Speaker 1: of the early findings was that their last meal had 280 00:16:33,080 --> 00:16:37,000 Speaker 1: been roughly five or six hours before they died. So 281 00:16:37,440 --> 00:16:39,880 Speaker 1: some had theorized that they ate some sort of contaminated 282 00:16:40,080 --> 00:16:42,880 Speaker 1: food with some sort of bacteria that caused them to 283 00:16:43,000 --> 00:16:46,400 Speaker 1: have sort of a psychotic episode and that they all 284 00:16:46,480 --> 00:16:50,960 Speaker 1: became disoriented and confused. Uh, and they basically went mad 285 00:16:51,120 --> 00:16:54,720 Speaker 1: from eating bad food. There's even one theory that the 286 00:16:54,840 --> 00:16:58,800 Speaker 1: hikers were killed somewhere else and then the whole abandoned 287 00:16:58,880 --> 00:17:02,400 Speaker 1: camp and all the resting places were staged afterward. And 288 00:17:02,600 --> 00:17:05,240 Speaker 1: this one is supported by statements from your uton. Remember 289 00:17:05,280 --> 00:17:06,760 Speaker 1: he's the one that got sick and wind up not 290 00:17:06,840 --> 00:17:11,360 Speaker 1: going on the trip. He was asked allegedly to identify 291 00:17:11,520 --> 00:17:13,480 Speaker 1: every item in the camp and who it belonged to, 292 00:17:13,760 --> 00:17:16,920 Speaker 1: And there were several items that he couldn't recognize or identify, 293 00:17:17,240 --> 00:17:19,440 Speaker 1: and this included skis, a piece of cloth, and a 294 00:17:19,480 --> 00:17:23,119 Speaker 1: pair of glasses. I think it's kind of easy to 295 00:17:23,200 --> 00:17:26,560 Speaker 1: dismiss this idea, but how in the world would one 296 00:17:26,600 --> 00:17:29,400 Speaker 1: person have knowledge of every single thing every other person 297 00:17:29,680 --> 00:17:34,280 Speaker 1: with them owned and carried with them? Yeah, and I mean, 298 00:17:34,359 --> 00:17:38,919 Speaker 1: I uh not to you know, discredit him. But again, 299 00:17:39,000 --> 00:17:43,400 Speaker 1: we talked about eyewitness accounts having some reliability issues anyway, 300 00:17:43,920 --> 00:17:46,160 Speaker 1: and you're talking about a kid in his early twenties 301 00:17:46,800 --> 00:17:50,199 Speaker 1: who just found out that nine of his closest friends 302 00:17:50,320 --> 00:17:53,400 Speaker 1: died in a really gruesome and horrible and mysterious way. 303 00:17:54,160 --> 00:17:57,160 Speaker 1: So there's some shock in the mix that can really 304 00:17:57,240 --> 00:18:00,679 Speaker 1: mess with your memory in your thought processes. In addition 305 00:18:00,720 --> 00:18:04,720 Speaker 1: to it being sort of unrealistic to expect him to 306 00:18:04,840 --> 00:18:09,080 Speaker 1: know what every single person had packed. Uh So that 307 00:18:09,280 --> 00:18:13,200 Speaker 1: also factors in. And because of the nature of the 308 00:18:13,320 --> 00:18:16,199 Speaker 1: injuries of the four bodies found in the ravine, they 309 00:18:16,280 --> 00:18:19,879 Speaker 1: all had serious internal injuries but no evidence of exterior trauma. 310 00:18:20,640 --> 00:18:23,320 Speaker 1: It's been postulated that some sort of explosion may have 311 00:18:23,440 --> 00:18:25,640 Speaker 1: led to their deaths, and that like a shock wave 312 00:18:26,320 --> 00:18:29,200 Speaker 1: may have hit them, or that they were running and 313 00:18:29,320 --> 00:18:33,159 Speaker 1: kind of thrown into the ravine with great force. And 314 00:18:33,280 --> 00:18:36,400 Speaker 1: this has kind of fed a whole slew of ideas 315 00:18:36,920 --> 00:18:38,920 Speaker 1: that the Diyat law of hikers met with a bad 316 00:18:39,040 --> 00:18:42,080 Speaker 1: end due to some sort of military activity, such as 317 00:18:42,119 --> 00:18:45,760 Speaker 1: a test missile explosion. There is no record of such 318 00:18:45,800 --> 00:18:49,200 Speaker 1: a military test happening at this time while they were there, 319 00:18:49,520 --> 00:18:51,800 Speaker 1: but proponents of this theory argue that it might not 320 00:18:52,000 --> 00:18:55,080 Speaker 1: have been divulged even if it had happened. There are 321 00:18:55,160 --> 00:18:59,000 Speaker 1: two military facilities where rocket trials and nuclear testing took 322 00:18:59,040 --> 00:19:01,440 Speaker 1: place that are near the scene, but there is no 323 00:19:01,560 --> 00:19:04,200 Speaker 1: record of them having been doing that when this happened. 324 00:19:06,080 --> 00:19:10,919 Speaker 1: So you're Reuton's identifying of articles problem is also cited 325 00:19:11,000 --> 00:19:14,520 Speaker 1: in support of this theory, which you know what sort 326 00:19:14,520 --> 00:19:16,919 Speaker 1: of with the suggestion that members of the military got 327 00:19:16,960 --> 00:19:19,280 Speaker 1: to the camp before the investigators and covered up the 328 00:19:19,320 --> 00:19:22,959 Speaker 1: evidence but sloppily left things behind. And I do want 329 00:19:23,000 --> 00:19:25,840 Speaker 1: to say I was not trying to discredit him, but 330 00:19:26,000 --> 00:19:28,639 Speaker 1: more to say it's it's not it's to be expected 331 00:19:28,840 --> 00:19:32,320 Speaker 1: that someone would not necessarily be able to identify everything 332 00:19:32,400 --> 00:19:37,200 Speaker 1: at the camp. Yeah, it's unrealistic. Um, Like I said, again, 333 00:19:37,480 --> 00:19:41,200 Speaker 1: this is a person in shock. Young also, you know, 334 00:19:41,320 --> 00:19:43,480 Speaker 1: dragged out there by authorities and gone who owned this, 335 00:19:43,560 --> 00:19:45,440 Speaker 1: Who owned this? Who owned this? I would be a 336 00:19:45,520 --> 00:19:49,080 Speaker 1: train wreck. So uh. And he mentioned there's that piece 337 00:19:49,160 --> 00:19:51,760 Speaker 1: of cloth that he couldn't identify where it came from, 338 00:19:52,080 --> 00:19:54,480 Speaker 1: and he specifically said he thought it looked like it 339 00:19:54,600 --> 00:19:56,879 Speaker 1: came from a military uniform. Which is another thing that 340 00:19:56,960 --> 00:20:01,840 Speaker 1: kind of feeds this military involvement theory. UM. Another story 341 00:20:01,920 --> 00:20:06,320 Speaker 1: which kind of perpetuates theories about alien or even military 342 00:20:06,400 --> 00:20:09,040 Speaker 1: involvement is tied to the recollections of a man who 343 00:20:09,200 --> 00:20:11,439 Speaker 1: was a twelve year old in ninety nine when all 344 00:20:11,440 --> 00:20:15,760 Speaker 1: of this happened, Eurikonsevitch, who attended the funerals of several 345 00:20:15,800 --> 00:20:20,600 Speaker 1: of the deceased hikers. UM. His recollection is that the 346 00:20:20,720 --> 00:20:23,920 Speaker 1: bodies were a deep brown tan. He sometimes even described 347 00:20:23,960 --> 00:20:28,600 Speaker 1: them as Orangesian tone and uh. He went on to 348 00:20:28,760 --> 00:20:33,560 Speaker 1: found the Diatlov Foundation, which kind of searches for various 349 00:20:34,320 --> 00:20:36,920 Speaker 1: UH solutions to how this all could have happened. But 350 00:20:37,560 --> 00:20:41,280 Speaker 1: some have discounted his his commentary on this weird color 351 00:20:41,359 --> 00:20:43,600 Speaker 1: of the skin as being attributed to the fact that 352 00:20:43,680 --> 00:20:46,800 Speaker 1: they were out in the elements for so long, even 353 00:20:46,920 --> 00:20:50,879 Speaker 1: while Street Journal book reviewer Gregory Crouch throughout a theory 354 00:20:51,240 --> 00:20:54,040 Speaker 1: in his review of Dead Mountain by Donnie Iker and 355 00:20:54,119 --> 00:20:56,400 Speaker 1: we'll be talking more about Iker in just a bit. 356 00:20:57,320 --> 00:21:00,119 Speaker 1: He suggests that one of the nine quote suffered some 357 00:21:00,280 --> 00:21:03,840 Speaker 1: kind of psychotic rage and attacked his fellow hikers. And 358 00:21:03,920 --> 00:21:09,840 Speaker 1: I will say one more time, We're wolf it's all 359 00:21:09,920 --> 00:21:13,880 Speaker 1: clear now, Tracy, I know it's obviously we're closed. Why 360 00:21:13,920 --> 00:21:16,760 Speaker 1: are we doing this episode? Right? They should have just 361 00:21:16,840 --> 00:21:18,560 Speaker 1: called you to begin with. This would be done. We 362 00:21:18,600 --> 00:21:21,080 Speaker 1: could save a lot of people time and money. Uh 363 00:21:21,359 --> 00:21:25,760 Speaker 1: so Uh. There are obviously plenty of these very interesting 364 00:21:25,840 --> 00:21:28,679 Speaker 1: and engaging theories regarding what happened in the Ural Mountains, 365 00:21:29,800 --> 00:21:36,159 Speaker 1: but we really also have to consider the less sensational explanations. First, 366 00:21:36,400 --> 00:21:41,159 Speaker 1: the tongue. The most obvious explanation is that a scavenger 367 00:21:41,240 --> 00:21:44,600 Speaker 1: animal ate it. And you know, the tongue is pretty 368 00:21:44,680 --> 00:21:48,200 Speaker 1: easily accessible soft tissue, and it probably would have been 369 00:21:48,440 --> 00:21:51,200 Speaker 1: a thing that a meal seeking animal would go for. 370 00:21:51,920 --> 00:21:54,400 Speaker 1: This doesn't really explain the blood in her stomach, though, 371 00:21:54,880 --> 00:21:58,480 Speaker 1: it's possible that she fell and bit her own tongue off, 372 00:21:59,600 --> 00:22:03,520 Speaker 1: or because she was the last found uh, or because 373 00:22:03,560 --> 00:22:05,359 Speaker 1: she was found in the last group, that her tongue 374 00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:09,560 Speaker 1: had simply decomposed. Yeah, her mouth was open when they 375 00:22:09,640 --> 00:22:12,159 Speaker 1: found her, so it is possible that the tongue decomposed 376 00:22:12,359 --> 00:22:15,480 Speaker 1: with exposure to the elements. I have never seen like 377 00:22:15,520 --> 00:22:19,080 Speaker 1: a breakdown of the likelihood of uh, that being the 378 00:22:19,160 --> 00:22:22,760 Speaker 1: case sort of worked out with how cold it was 379 00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:25,560 Speaker 1: and what the preservation of the temperature would have been 380 00:22:25,760 --> 00:22:31,879 Speaker 1: versus frost bite deteriorating something. But that's just one possible explanation. 381 00:22:32,400 --> 00:22:35,879 Speaker 1: So an avalanche has also been mentioned to explain the 382 00:22:36,000 --> 00:22:39,119 Speaker 1: trashed camp uh, and it could explain some of the 383 00:22:39,200 --> 00:22:42,879 Speaker 1: injuries that have been caused by great force without external trauma, 384 00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:46,680 Speaker 1: But there isn't um a whole lot of evidence that 385 00:22:46,760 --> 00:22:50,959 Speaker 1: an avalanche actually happened. However, I did read several theories 386 00:22:51,040 --> 00:22:54,480 Speaker 1: that the sort of more likely scenario would actually be 387 00:22:54,560 --> 00:22:58,440 Speaker 1: that the fear of an avalanche may explain why the 388 00:22:58,520 --> 00:23:01,200 Speaker 1: hikers ran from their tent in such a poor state 389 00:23:01,280 --> 00:23:04,359 Speaker 1: of dress for the conditions. If they heard a sound 390 00:23:04,480 --> 00:23:07,399 Speaker 1: that convinced them that an avalanche was happening, it is 391 00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:10,960 Speaker 1: possible that they would have run for their lives, thinking 392 00:23:11,040 --> 00:23:13,760 Speaker 1: that they didn't have time to prep uh, and that 393 00:23:13,920 --> 00:23:16,480 Speaker 1: that is how they found themselves disoriented and lost, and 394 00:23:16,560 --> 00:23:20,160 Speaker 1: remember this was a stormy time of year. It's also 395 00:23:20,560 --> 00:23:25,000 Speaker 1: completely believable that hypothermia could have played a really significant part. 396 00:23:25,080 --> 00:23:28,520 Speaker 1: And all the strange things about how the deceased were dressed, 397 00:23:29,280 --> 00:23:33,760 Speaker 1: a behavior called paradoxical undressing, is not at all uncommon 398 00:23:33,920 --> 00:23:37,919 Speaker 1: in cases of extreme hypothermia, as your brain functions are 399 00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:42,440 Speaker 1: compromised in the cold. Often this manifests as taking off 400 00:23:42,520 --> 00:23:46,159 Speaker 1: your clothing because either you're not thinking clearly at all, 401 00:23:46,359 --> 00:23:48,720 Speaker 1: or you feel like you're hot even though you're freezing 402 00:23:48,760 --> 00:23:53,280 Speaker 1: to death. Yeah, we talked a little bit about hypothermia 403 00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:56,520 Speaker 1: and sort of how it affects your brain, as well 404 00:23:56,600 --> 00:23:59,399 Speaker 1: as some more altitude related stuff when we did our 405 00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:02,840 Speaker 1: Everest pod cast. But I thought about that a little bit. Um, 406 00:24:03,119 --> 00:24:07,200 Speaker 1: these weren't at the elevations that the altitude issues were 407 00:24:07,280 --> 00:24:11,920 Speaker 1: ever brought into play. But you know, extreme conditions can 408 00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:15,240 Speaker 1: really cause your brain to do some very bizarre and 409 00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:20,840 Speaker 1: seemingly nonsensical things. Uh. And this paradoxical undressing is well 410 00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:23,720 Speaker 1: documented in a lot of hypothermia cases that people will 411 00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:26,320 Speaker 1: try to burrow into the snow with no clothes on 412 00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:28,640 Speaker 1: because some part of their brain thinks that's how I'm 413 00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:32,280 Speaker 1: going to survive. We don't know now, since there's no 414 00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:35,600 Speaker 1: official confirmation on the radiation levels that we mentioned earlier 415 00:24:35,760 --> 00:24:39,679 Speaker 1: or the mysterious orange lights. Uh, theories of secret government 416 00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:42,520 Speaker 1: testing and aliens that are based around those facts kind 417 00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:46,080 Speaker 1: of struggle. It really gets into a lot of theoretical 418 00:24:46,280 --> 00:24:48,680 Speaker 1: this could be, but there's just not much to back 419 00:24:48,760 --> 00:24:50,440 Speaker 1: it up. But we don't want to ruin all the 420 00:24:50,520 --> 00:24:52,239 Speaker 1: fun for Ben and Matt and stuff. They don't want 421 00:24:52,280 --> 00:24:54,640 Speaker 1: you to know. So, for all we know, those were 422 00:24:54,680 --> 00:24:58,000 Speaker 1: all detailed out in the pages and reports that somehow 423 00:24:58,040 --> 00:25:00,840 Speaker 1: went missing from the publicly released records will give them 424 00:25:00,920 --> 00:25:03,720 Speaker 1: that bone, but those really don't have a lot of 425 00:25:03,760 --> 00:25:08,240 Speaker 1: substantiation to work with. Before we get to one more 426 00:25:08,359 --> 00:25:11,520 Speaker 1: kind of interesting theory about how this may have happened. 427 00:25:11,720 --> 00:25:13,000 Speaker 1: Do you want to have a word from a sponsor, 428 00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:23,840 Speaker 1: let's do that. A more recent theory that's come about 429 00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:28,080 Speaker 1: is that a Carmen vortex street caused the deaths. The 430 00:25:28,400 --> 00:25:32,600 Speaker 1: Carmen vortex street is this phenomenon consisting of a series 431 00:25:32,840 --> 00:25:36,680 Speaker 1: of vortices caused by the separation of wind or fluid 432 00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:43,120 Speaker 1: by a bluff body. So vortices sort of like tornadoes. Uh. 433 00:25:43,880 --> 00:25:45,600 Speaker 1: I didn't mean to make that sound like a question. 434 00:25:45,720 --> 00:25:50,879 Speaker 1: That's actually swirling wind is really what that is? Uh, 435 00:25:51,200 --> 00:25:55,119 Speaker 1: And bluff body. So that's the shape of the landscape, 436 00:25:55,240 --> 00:25:58,119 Speaker 1: right right, So when like it's it's kind of if 437 00:25:58,160 --> 00:26:01,560 Speaker 1: you think about in this case, we in hitting the 438 00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:05,720 Speaker 1: mountain it can't go through it, so it splits to 439 00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:07,760 Speaker 1: go around it. And because of the shape of the mountain, 440 00:26:07,800 --> 00:26:10,960 Speaker 1: it forms these whirling vortices and they kind of dove 441 00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:12,480 Speaker 1: tail on one another and you end up with a 442 00:26:12,560 --> 00:26:14,920 Speaker 1: chain of them. Yeah. And when you look at atmospheric 443 00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:18,280 Speaker 1: photos of these, they look really beautiful. However they are 444 00:26:18,359 --> 00:26:23,760 Speaker 1: incredibly dangerous. Yeah, there are stories of them completely leveling buildings. UH. 445 00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:27,560 Speaker 1: And now in the modern era that they have been 446 00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:30,720 Speaker 1: studied and understood a little bit better. Modern architecture, particularly 447 00:26:30,920 --> 00:26:36,040 Speaker 1: in cities and places where they're multiple structures close together, 448 00:26:36,160 --> 00:26:40,440 Speaker 1: they really try to factor in not creating an environment 449 00:26:40,640 --> 00:26:44,080 Speaker 1: that will welcome these sorts of phenomenon to happen or 450 00:26:44,119 --> 00:26:47,399 Speaker 1: cause them. So Donnie I Car who we talked about earlier, 451 00:26:47,520 --> 00:26:49,400 Speaker 1: he was a filmmaker. He also wrote a book about 452 00:26:49,440 --> 00:26:53,000 Speaker 1: the diet Past incident UH as part of his kind 453 00:26:53,040 --> 00:26:55,159 Speaker 1: of press junket. As he talked about what was in 454 00:26:55,240 --> 00:26:59,320 Speaker 1: his book, he mentioned these Carmen vortex streets and he 455 00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:02,000 Speaker 1: believes this movement of wind through the past could have 456 00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:05,240 Speaker 1: created such a vortex street. And moreover, he asserts that 457 00:27:05,359 --> 00:27:08,840 Speaker 1: this wind event could have resulted in an infrasound phenomenon. 458 00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:12,520 Speaker 1: And this is pertinent to the mystery because infrasound, which 459 00:27:12,640 --> 00:27:15,919 Speaker 1: is too low of a frequency to be consciously heard 460 00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:20,200 Speaker 1: or perceived, but does affect your ear drum and the 461 00:27:20,280 --> 00:27:25,280 Speaker 1: pressure around you, it's said to cause people to experience disorientation, 462 00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:28,560 Speaker 1: they can have shortness of breath, they can have irrational fear. 463 00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:31,960 Speaker 1: So it kind of messes with your head a little bit. Uh. 464 00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:34,359 Speaker 1: And if this were the case, and this had in 465 00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:38,000 Speaker 1: fact happened to the diet Lov party, it offers another 466 00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:41,040 Speaker 1: possible explanation for why they ran out of their tent 467 00:27:41,240 --> 00:27:45,240 Speaker 1: into the you know, certainly fatal coldhi Our asserts that 468 00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:49,359 Speaker 1: the surroundings of the past form the perfect environment for 469 00:27:49,440 --> 00:27:53,040 Speaker 1: the creation of a Carmen vortex street. The dome of 470 00:27:53,160 --> 00:27:56,320 Speaker 1: the so called dead Mountain is really symmetrical. It's dome shaped, 471 00:27:56,640 --> 00:28:00,200 Speaker 1: as that suggests, So it's the perfect blunt object act 472 00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:03,560 Speaker 1: to form eddies of splitting wind as the gusts come 473 00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:06,239 Speaker 1: up against it. Yeah, I don't know if they've ever 474 00:28:06,359 --> 00:28:09,440 Speaker 1: been able to. He as part of his book research 475 00:28:09,680 --> 00:28:13,040 Speaker 1: and his project, actually tried to recreate their hike, and 476 00:28:13,119 --> 00:28:15,720 Speaker 1: I don't know that they came came into I haven't 477 00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:17,920 Speaker 1: read the whole book. I don't know if they came 478 00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:20,920 Speaker 1: into a situation where they saw a duplication of that 479 00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:25,440 Speaker 1: happening or not, but food for thought. UH. In more 480 00:28:25,520 --> 00:28:28,359 Speaker 1: recent happenings, UH. In two thousand eight, there was a 481 00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:33,080 Speaker 1: meeting which was organized by Eural State Technical University or Polytechnic, 482 00:28:33,680 --> 00:28:36,639 Speaker 1: which is the university that the students had attended, and 483 00:28:36,760 --> 00:28:40,400 Speaker 1: the Diatlov Foundation, and they gathered independent researchers and former 484 00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:45,040 Speaker 1: rescuers UH to gather and discuss all of the possible evidence, 485 00:28:45,040 --> 00:28:48,000 Speaker 1: because remember the Diatlaw Foundation was set up to try 486 00:28:48,040 --> 00:28:51,120 Speaker 1: to figure out exactly what happened, and this group determined 487 00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:54,400 Speaker 1: that when taking all of the evidence into account, all 488 00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:59,680 Speaker 1: signs really pointed to a military test accidentally causing the deaths. However, 489 00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:03,800 Speaker 1: a group also issued a statement saying that the Defense 490 00:29:03,880 --> 00:29:06,719 Speaker 1: Ministry and other government agencies would have to provide them 491 00:29:06,840 --> 00:29:09,560 Speaker 1: with some additional documentation before they could say they had 492 00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:13,120 Speaker 1: definitive proof. So they kind of were making a super theory, 493 00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:15,880 Speaker 1: but they don't really have the evidence to back it up. 494 00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:19,640 Speaker 1: There are a whole lot of films, both documentary and 495 00:29:19,760 --> 00:29:23,320 Speaker 1: docufiction that have been inspired by the deat Love Past 496 00:29:23,440 --> 00:29:27,560 Speaker 1: Incident in TLVE, director Renny Harland made a movie that 497 00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:32,280 Speaker 1: was loosely premised on the recreation of the journey, but 498 00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:37,680 Speaker 1: it veered very wildly into fictional territory. Oh yes, super 499 00:29:38,600 --> 00:29:40,800 Speaker 1: not I think I was. I have not seen it. 500 00:29:40,840 --> 00:29:42,520 Speaker 1: It's called Devil's Pass and I haven't seen it. But 501 00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:44,920 Speaker 1: Christian from brain Stuff and I were talking about it. 502 00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:48,160 Speaker 1: He's seen it, and he was He was saying like, yeah, 503 00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:49,920 Speaker 1: they never found the bodies, and I'm like, that is 504 00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:53,920 Speaker 1: not accurate. So clearly that film has a lot of 505 00:29:54,080 --> 00:29:57,160 Speaker 1: like liberties taken with the story in order to further 506 00:29:57,360 --> 00:30:00,920 Speaker 1: the plot along. There is actually I'm really looking forward 507 00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:03,680 Speaker 1: to this. There is a PC MAC video game that's 508 00:30:03,720 --> 00:30:05,560 Speaker 1: coming out that is based on the events of the 509 00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:09,320 Speaker 1: diet Loft Past incident. It's entitled Lot and if you're interested, 510 00:30:09,680 --> 00:30:13,800 Speaker 1: it's coming out of a Polish games company and that 511 00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:16,200 Speaker 1: is going to be out in early and I'm really 512 00:30:16,240 --> 00:30:19,360 Speaker 1: curious to see what they do with it. You're a Uton, 513 00:30:19,480 --> 00:30:22,160 Speaker 1: the young man who left the group before the hike 514 00:30:22,320 --> 00:30:25,080 Speaker 1: because of his illness, lived to be seventy five and 515 00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:29,080 Speaker 1: he died in April. He's often quoted as saying, if 516 00:30:29,120 --> 00:30:31,280 Speaker 1: I had a chance to ask God just one question, 517 00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:34,200 Speaker 1: it would be what really happened to my friends that night? 518 00:30:34,640 --> 00:30:36,240 Speaker 1: And I think that's one of the things that's really 519 00:30:36,680 --> 00:30:39,560 Speaker 1: like there's such a focus on the whole unsolved mystery 520 00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:45,400 Speaker 1: conspiracy angle of all this um because I I've I've 521 00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:47,520 Speaker 1: looked around those websites. We've had a lot of people 522 00:30:47,560 --> 00:30:51,960 Speaker 1: that have requested this episode, and I've sort of been like, 523 00:30:52,160 --> 00:30:54,480 Speaker 1: I personally don't feel like researching that, so I'm really 524 00:30:54,520 --> 00:30:58,920 Speaker 1: glad the Holly did. But you know, I have poked 525 00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:01,400 Speaker 1: around at some website some people have asked, and like 526 00:31:01,600 --> 00:31:05,120 Speaker 1: they pretty universally forget about the fact that these were 527 00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:07,760 Speaker 1: a group of college students who died and that's tragic, 528 00:31:07,960 --> 00:31:11,480 Speaker 1: Like that's pretty much not talked about. Yeah, it really 529 00:31:11,800 --> 00:31:14,880 Speaker 1: it really becomes about the my theory versus your theory 530 00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:19,200 Speaker 1: mentality a lot of times, uh, which I understand the 531 00:31:19,240 --> 00:31:21,520 Speaker 1: appeal of that, and it's very fun and it is 532 00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:24,240 Speaker 1: fun to theorize on sort of what might have happened, 533 00:31:25,080 --> 00:31:29,440 Speaker 1: kind of play armchair sleuth. But as you said, you know, 534 00:31:29,600 --> 00:31:32,400 Speaker 1: these are nine except for the one man that was 535 00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:34,320 Speaker 1: in his thirties. They were all in their early twenties, 536 00:31:34,360 --> 00:31:37,360 Speaker 1: they were really young. Then those were people's friends and 537 00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:41,320 Speaker 1: family members. Yeah, and they were by all accounts, very bright. 538 00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:45,080 Speaker 1: Three of them were engineers. Uh that I think we're 539 00:31:45,080 --> 00:31:49,640 Speaker 1: doing graduate work. And then the others were younger students. 540 00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:51,760 Speaker 1: I think they were undergrads. But so they all had 541 00:31:51,840 --> 00:31:54,120 Speaker 1: really bright futures ahead of them. They were all very smart. 542 00:31:54,280 --> 00:31:59,200 Speaker 1: As we said, they were accomplished um hikers, like they 543 00:31:59,320 --> 00:32:01,959 Speaker 1: really you know, they were just setting out in their 544 00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:05,000 Speaker 1: lives and it and there is a small memorial monument 545 00:32:05,080 --> 00:32:09,440 Speaker 1: to them with their photos on it. Uh, but I 546 00:32:09,560 --> 00:32:12,000 Speaker 1: think you're you make a great point. Well, there was 547 00:32:12,280 --> 00:32:15,400 Speaker 1: there was a student who was supposed to be part 548 00:32:15,440 --> 00:32:18,680 Speaker 1: of my freshman class in college who fell from a 549 00:32:18,760 --> 00:32:23,920 Speaker 1: waterfall and died, uh right before, like on a school 550 00:32:23,920 --> 00:32:26,960 Speaker 1: sponsored trip immediately before the school year. And it really 551 00:32:27,360 --> 00:32:30,520 Speaker 1: rocked the campus. Like people who had never even met 552 00:32:30,600 --> 00:32:33,560 Speaker 1: her were just profoundly affected by it. So I can't 553 00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:36,520 Speaker 1: imagine having a group this size who were all students, 554 00:32:36,600 --> 00:32:39,800 Speaker 1: who all died unexpectedly on a trip like this. I 555 00:32:39,960 --> 00:32:42,720 Speaker 1: can't imagine what it must have been like for their 556 00:32:42,840 --> 00:32:47,800 Speaker 1: classmates and colleagues and family members afterward. Yeah, and the 557 00:32:48,160 --> 00:32:51,880 Speaker 1: the gentleman we mentioned earlier Yuri Kotsevich, who had been 558 00:32:51,920 --> 00:32:55,040 Speaker 1: twelve when this all happened. When he spoke the incident, 559 00:32:55,440 --> 00:32:58,960 Speaker 1: you know, as an adult, his recollections are really very 560 00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:03,040 Speaker 1: Um there are impressions of sort of the emotional state 561 00:33:03,480 --> 00:33:07,320 Speaker 1: of their community and how everyone was really devastated. I mean, 562 00:33:07,360 --> 00:33:10,760 Speaker 1: it was a huge loss, uh So something to think about, 563 00:33:11,640 --> 00:33:14,880 Speaker 1: and as enthusiasts are still looking for the real answer 564 00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:17,880 Speaker 1: to what happened in the the outlaw pass we may 565 00:33:17,960 --> 00:33:20,080 Speaker 1: never know it. But part of the problem is that 566 00:33:20,160 --> 00:33:22,840 Speaker 1: the clock is kind of running out for some people. Um, 567 00:33:23,520 --> 00:33:26,160 Speaker 1: the people that were actually involved in the investigation or 568 00:33:26,200 --> 00:33:29,120 Speaker 1: who knew the hikers. The hikers are all aging so 569 00:33:29,360 --> 00:33:32,120 Speaker 1: and many have already died, so in terms of eyewitness accounts, 570 00:33:32,160 --> 00:33:34,920 Speaker 1: even though they're unreliable in terms of talking to people 571 00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:38,800 Speaker 1: that were actually part of what happened there, there's not 572 00:33:39,040 --> 00:33:41,680 Speaker 1: really going to be anybody to ask any additional questions 573 00:33:41,720 --> 00:33:44,800 Speaker 1: of soon. Although there are still people, of course that 574 00:33:44,920 --> 00:33:47,400 Speaker 1: hold out hope that there is a fuller record that 575 00:33:47,560 --> 00:33:51,560 Speaker 1: the Russian government has that they will someday release I 576 00:33:51,720 --> 00:33:54,040 Speaker 1: personally kind of hold more to the they don't say 577 00:33:54,120 --> 00:33:57,000 Speaker 1: much because they don't know anything else and probably some 578 00:33:57,120 --> 00:33:59,920 Speaker 1: records got lost, but that's just my sort of pragmat 579 00:34:00,520 --> 00:34:03,640 Speaker 1: I presume they're kind of like Shrug, which could be 580 00:34:03,720 --> 00:34:05,479 Speaker 1: perceived as a cover up, if that's what you want 581 00:34:05,520 --> 00:34:07,080 Speaker 1: to see, but I really think it's more of a 582 00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:11,759 Speaker 1: I don't know. Uh so that is the yell Off 583 00:34:11,840 --> 00:34:15,600 Speaker 1: Pass incident, which is fascinating. I'm sure we will get 584 00:34:15,640 --> 00:34:18,400 Speaker 1: lots of theories in our email I actually kind of 585 00:34:18,480 --> 00:34:27,959 Speaker 1: hope so that will be some fun October reading. Thanks 586 00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:30,640 Speaker 1: so much for joining us on this Saturday. Since this 587 00:34:30,760 --> 00:34:32,759 Speaker 1: episode is out of the archive, if you heard an 588 00:34:32,800 --> 00:34:35,440 Speaker 1: email address or Facebook U r L or something similar 589 00:34:35,560 --> 00:34:38,319 Speaker 1: over the course of the show, that could be obsolete now. 590 00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:43,000 Speaker 1: Our current email address is History Podcast at i heart 591 00:34:43,160 --> 00:34:46,600 Speaker 1: radio dot com. 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