1 00:00:00,720 --> 00:00:04,240 Speaker 1: For the first time I felt beautiful. I was like, wow, 2 00:00:05,360 --> 00:00:08,280 Speaker 1: I look like the girls on TV. Now I don't 3 00:00:08,320 --> 00:00:12,840 Speaker 1: look like this fuzzy haired girl. Whatever it was that 4 00:00:12,960 --> 00:00:18,000 Speaker 1: made me feel not enough of either identity, I now 5 00:00:18,120 --> 00:00:20,600 Speaker 1: felt acceptable. 6 00:00:24,760 --> 00:00:28,520 Speaker 2: From Fudro media and BrX. It's Latino USA. I'm Maria 7 00:00:28,640 --> 00:00:32,840 Speaker 2: no Rosa Today a conversation with journalist Natasha Alford. I'm 8 00:00:32,880 --> 00:00:37,000 Speaker 2: growing up Afro Latina and being an American Negra in 9 00:00:37,080 --> 00:00:47,520 Speaker 2: a divided country. Oh my god, I see my god. 10 00:00:47,880 --> 00:00:52,360 Speaker 2: Dear listener, what you're hearing right now is me wrapping 11 00:00:52,440 --> 00:00:56,440 Speaker 2: my arms around the journalist and now memoirist, Natasha Alfred. 12 00:00:56,560 --> 00:00:57,959 Speaker 3: I've been wanting to do this for a. 13 00:00:57,920 --> 00:01:00,720 Speaker 4: While, and this is the right time. Happens when it's 14 00:01:00,720 --> 00:01:01,720 Speaker 4: supposed to the road. 15 00:01:02,640 --> 00:01:06,760 Speaker 2: Natasha is an award winning journalist and political analyst who 16 00:01:06,840 --> 00:01:09,559 Speaker 2: you've probably seen on CNN or MSNBC. 17 00:01:09,760 --> 00:01:11,520 Speaker 1: If you're going to lead this country through a time 18 00:01:11,640 --> 00:01:15,920 Speaker 1: of division and partisanship, you have to have a consistent message. 19 00:01:16,040 --> 00:01:19,920 Speaker 2: She's also a media executive, the senior vice president of 20 00:01:20,040 --> 00:01:24,440 Speaker 2: the Grio, a news organization focusing on black Americans. 21 00:01:25,680 --> 00:01:27,440 Speaker 3: At only thirty eight years old. 22 00:01:27,280 --> 00:01:31,720 Speaker 2: Natasha had already lived several lives before becoming the journalist 23 00:01:32,000 --> 00:01:36,320 Speaker 2: she is today. She is a working class Harvard graduate, 24 00:01:36,680 --> 00:01:40,360 Speaker 2: a former middle school teacher, and she recently published her 25 00:01:40,440 --> 00:01:45,399 Speaker 2: debut memoir, which is called American Negra. I have known 26 00:01:45,560 --> 00:01:49,080 Speaker 2: of Natasha for years, but we have never sat down 27 00:01:49,440 --> 00:01:54,080 Speaker 2: and actually spoken at length. So after a historic presidential 28 00:01:54,080 --> 00:01:57,720 Speaker 2: election that will have a deep impact on women, particularly 29 00:01:57,920 --> 00:02:01,600 Speaker 2: black women and women of color, Dasha and I talked about. 30 00:02:01,360 --> 00:02:04,120 Speaker 3: The importance of community and solidarity. 31 00:02:04,280 --> 00:02:09,160 Speaker 2: Oh really, So there's a lot of excitement this morning 32 00:02:09,240 --> 00:02:11,440 Speaker 2: when we finally see each other. But I never would 33 00:02:11,440 --> 00:02:14,640 Speaker 2: have guessed that I might also have found my long 34 00:02:14,720 --> 00:02:16,400 Speaker 2: lost brima, my cousin. 35 00:02:17,000 --> 00:02:18,720 Speaker 1: When I look at you, I feel like we have 36 00:02:18,800 --> 00:02:20,200 Speaker 1: similar features, like. 37 00:02:20,200 --> 00:02:24,080 Speaker 4: Are you kids? You a little bit like with cousins. 38 00:02:25,320 --> 00:02:27,520 Speaker 2: And you know what, I could see it too, It's 39 00:02:27,639 --> 00:02:30,040 Speaker 2: in the nose, it's like the same. 40 00:02:30,720 --> 00:02:31,600 Speaker 3: I love that. 41 00:02:31,880 --> 00:02:34,280 Speaker 2: I'm just like we could yeah, a little bit right 42 00:02:34,720 --> 00:02:35,840 Speaker 2: like cousin. 43 00:02:35,960 --> 00:02:38,200 Speaker 3: Yes, exactly exactly. 44 00:02:38,560 --> 00:02:42,119 Speaker 2: Although this was our very first time really hugging it out, 45 00:02:42,760 --> 00:02:46,200 Speaker 2: I remembered while I was reading Natasha's memoir that this 46 00:02:46,400 --> 00:02:49,040 Speaker 2: wasn't the first time that she and I had actually met. 47 00:02:49,600 --> 00:02:52,320 Speaker 1: The first time we quote unquote met right. You were 48 00:02:52,320 --> 00:02:54,400 Speaker 1: a judge for this program. 49 00:02:54,639 --> 00:03:00,480 Speaker 4: It was a Quiz the Media. Hello, everybody, Welcome to 50 00:03:00,960 --> 00:03:02,160 Speaker 4: Quiz the Media. 51 00:03:02,680 --> 00:03:08,040 Speaker 2: Oh yes, which happens in twenty fourteen in Chicago. You 52 00:03:08,080 --> 00:03:12,040 Speaker 2: were getting masters from Medill in journalism, and I go 53 00:03:12,080 --> 00:03:14,920 Speaker 2: to Chicago to do an event actually for Latino USA 54 00:03:15,560 --> 00:03:16,760 Speaker 2: with John Kignonez. 55 00:03:17,120 --> 00:03:18,680 Speaker 3: I never't know where you could put those cameras, by 56 00:03:18,680 --> 00:03:19,160 Speaker 3: the way. 57 00:03:20,400 --> 00:03:24,720 Speaker 4: And we were basically presenting questions. Good evening everyone. My 58 00:03:24,800 --> 00:03:27,680 Speaker 4: name is Natasha Alford. I'm a master student at the 59 00:03:27,680 --> 00:03:28,880 Speaker 4: Middle School of Journalism. 60 00:03:28,960 --> 00:03:33,000 Speaker 1: Okay, so we have so very accomplished young student journalists. 61 00:03:33,960 --> 00:03:37,440 Speaker 1: So I'm being judged about how well we presented questions 62 00:03:37,480 --> 00:03:38,400 Speaker 1: as journalists. 63 00:03:38,520 --> 00:03:41,480 Speaker 4: Mister Kigonis, you have the responsibility of asking. 64 00:03:41,560 --> 00:03:45,200 Speaker 1: I remember I was the only Afro Latina who was 65 00:03:45,440 --> 00:03:48,720 Speaker 1: part of that quiz show, and so even just being there, 66 00:03:48,760 --> 00:03:50,800 Speaker 1: there was a little bit of self consciousness. You know, 67 00:03:50,840 --> 00:03:54,280 Speaker 1: my hairs and curls, I just aesthetically looked different from 68 00:03:54,360 --> 00:03:55,640 Speaker 1: most of the people in the room. 69 00:03:56,360 --> 00:03:59,680 Speaker 4: But you said something really powerful about. 70 00:03:59,840 --> 00:04:02,440 Speaker 1: Just being able to speak for ourselves and not have 71 00:04:02,520 --> 00:04:05,520 Speaker 1: people talk at Latinos. But for us to be able 72 00:04:05,560 --> 00:04:09,440 Speaker 1: to you know, share our experiences and have our voices heard. 73 00:04:09,800 --> 00:04:11,640 Speaker 3: We have to tell the true narrative. 74 00:04:11,840 --> 00:04:17,760 Speaker 2: The journalists here will all admit knowingly that our editorial 75 00:04:17,800 --> 00:04:20,320 Speaker 2: newsrooms where decisions are being made about what's going to 76 00:04:20,320 --> 00:04:24,919 Speaker 2: get reported on, those rooms unfortunately are not diverse. 77 00:04:25,200 --> 00:04:28,799 Speaker 1: That scene just I think predicted what would happen later 78 00:04:28,960 --> 00:04:33,520 Speaker 1: in my journalism career where my own personal experiences would 79 00:04:33,520 --> 00:04:35,839 Speaker 1: inspire some of the stories that I told. And I 80 00:04:35,880 --> 00:04:39,080 Speaker 1: think it's a precursor to the conversations that we're having 81 00:04:39,120 --> 00:04:43,560 Speaker 1: now about representation and the story that the media tells 82 00:04:43,760 --> 00:04:47,840 Speaker 1: about Latino experiences. So now to sit across from you, 83 00:04:48,600 --> 00:04:51,680 Speaker 1: this is Yeah, it's a beautiful moment, it. 84 00:04:51,600 --> 00:04:54,960 Speaker 2: Really is, and I'm so happy we're doing it, and 85 00:04:54,960 --> 00:04:56,600 Speaker 2: we have so much to talk about. But you know, 86 00:04:56,680 --> 00:05:01,000 Speaker 2: we are doing this interview just after an election that 87 00:05:01,480 --> 00:05:03,960 Speaker 2: is historic, but not for the reasons that some of 88 00:05:04,040 --> 00:05:06,640 Speaker 2: us were expecting it to be. So I just have 89 00:05:06,720 --> 00:05:09,599 Speaker 2: to check in with you because you are a black woman, 90 00:05:10,160 --> 00:05:12,200 Speaker 2: an Afro Latina from Puerto Rico. 91 00:05:13,360 --> 00:05:15,000 Speaker 3: So how are you doing. 92 00:05:16,160 --> 00:05:19,800 Speaker 1: My brain is still processing what this means. We knew 93 00:05:19,839 --> 00:05:23,039 Speaker 1: that this could happen. I think you can't afford to 94 00:05:23,080 --> 00:05:27,120 Speaker 1: be naive as you cover elections as just a citizen 95 00:05:27,160 --> 00:05:30,359 Speaker 1: of this country. But what it meant to see someone 96 00:05:30,880 --> 00:05:33,800 Speaker 1: who was so supremely qualified. 97 00:05:33,680 --> 00:05:36,200 Speaker 5: Vice President Kamala Harris becomes the first woman of color 98 00:05:36,240 --> 00:05:37,240 Speaker 5: to accept a major. 99 00:05:37,839 --> 00:05:42,039 Speaker 1: Haired next to someone who's so supremely problematic, and you 100 00:05:42,200 --> 00:05:45,400 Speaker 1: hope in your heart that the right thing will happen, 101 00:05:45,440 --> 00:05:48,760 Speaker 1: that morality will somehow trump everything else. 102 00:05:49,480 --> 00:05:53,479 Speaker 4: And that's not what happened. The Associated Press has called 103 00:05:53,520 --> 00:05:57,039 Speaker 4: the presidency for Republican Donald Trump, And as you listen 104 00:05:57,080 --> 00:05:59,680 Speaker 4: to people talk about their choice, yea. 105 00:06:00,000 --> 00:06:02,200 Speaker 6: A little bit off base, but guess what, we're not 106 00:06:02,320 --> 00:06:03,840 Speaker 6: voting for a Jesus Christ. 107 00:06:04,200 --> 00:06:06,599 Speaker 1: You see that there was a calculus that people made 108 00:06:06,800 --> 00:06:10,320 Speaker 1: and there were certain things that were not disqualifying that 109 00:06:10,839 --> 00:06:14,880 Speaker 1: for me, possibly for you, were absolutely disqualifying. And so 110 00:06:14,960 --> 00:06:17,480 Speaker 1: then it makes you wonder where do I stand in 111 00:06:17,480 --> 00:06:21,240 Speaker 1: this country. I thought, if I was good enough, if 112 00:06:21,240 --> 00:06:24,080 Speaker 1: I worked twice as hard, all those things that you're 113 00:06:24,080 --> 00:06:27,919 Speaker 1: told are part of the American dream, an election like 114 00:06:28,040 --> 00:06:33,360 Speaker 1: this crystallizes where people stand and how they decide what matters. 115 00:06:33,760 --> 00:06:36,680 Speaker 4: So, yeah, it's been a rough past week. I'm not 116 00:06:36,680 --> 00:06:37,320 Speaker 4: going to lie. 117 00:06:37,839 --> 00:06:41,000 Speaker 1: But the good thing is that we have examples of 118 00:06:41,080 --> 00:06:46,279 Speaker 1: people who've come before us, who've navigated worse situations, and 119 00:06:46,320 --> 00:06:47,680 Speaker 1: I'm trying to draw strength from that. 120 00:06:48,360 --> 00:06:51,960 Speaker 2: Who's your navigator? Who do you turn to when you're like, well, 121 00:06:52,040 --> 00:06:53,000 Speaker 2: they made it through. 122 00:06:53,880 --> 00:06:54,120 Speaker 4: Well. 123 00:06:54,360 --> 00:06:56,400 Speaker 1: I think the first person who comes to mind is 124 00:06:56,440 --> 00:06:57,640 Speaker 1: Maya Angelou. 125 00:06:59,680 --> 00:07:03,480 Speaker 7: The true yearning to respond to the singing river and 126 00:07:03,520 --> 00:07:08,120 Speaker 7: the wise rock. So say, the Asian, the Hispanic, the Jew, 127 00:07:08,640 --> 00:07:11,400 Speaker 7: the African, the Native American, the Sioux. 128 00:07:11,880 --> 00:07:14,840 Speaker 1: And that's just because now I'm a memoirist, and I 129 00:07:14,880 --> 00:07:17,080 Speaker 1: think she is someone who was ahead of her time. 130 00:07:17,880 --> 00:07:20,720 Speaker 1: She wasn't afraid to be a woman, who owned every 131 00:07:20,800 --> 00:07:24,080 Speaker 1: part of her story, even the parts that society may judge, 132 00:07:24,560 --> 00:07:26,680 Speaker 1: and was just so wise about. 133 00:07:26,400 --> 00:07:27,440 Speaker 4: What truly mattered. 134 00:07:28,080 --> 00:07:31,400 Speaker 1: So she's one of many examples of women in literature 135 00:07:31,440 --> 00:07:33,920 Speaker 1: who make me feel like we can push through, we 136 00:07:33,960 --> 00:07:36,600 Speaker 1: can make art, and we can tell stories that can 137 00:07:36,760 --> 00:07:38,560 Speaker 1: still impact the world positively. 138 00:07:40,520 --> 00:07:44,880 Speaker 7: The Catholic, the Muslim, the French, the Greek, the Irish, 139 00:07:45,080 --> 00:07:49,400 Speaker 7: the Rabbi, the priest, the sheikh, the gay, the Strait, 140 00:07:49,720 --> 00:07:53,960 Speaker 7: the preacher, the privileged, the homeless, the teacher, they all 141 00:07:54,000 --> 00:07:57,040 Speaker 7: hear the speaking of the tree. They hear the first 142 00:07:57,080 --> 00:08:00,800 Speaker 7: and last of every tree. Speak to humankind today, come 143 00:08:01,000 --> 00:08:01,240 Speaker 7: to me. 144 00:08:03,520 --> 00:08:06,080 Speaker 2: Okay, I'm gonna go read to Maya Angelou because if 145 00:08:06,120 --> 00:08:08,560 Speaker 2: you had been my student and said the words I'm 146 00:08:08,560 --> 00:08:12,960 Speaker 2: a product of two northern migrations, should. 147 00:08:12,680 --> 00:08:13,200 Speaker 3: I tell my story? 148 00:08:13,200 --> 00:08:15,960 Speaker 2: I would have been like, oh yes, oh, yes, two 149 00:08:16,440 --> 00:08:21,640 Speaker 2: northern migration line. Yes, that's like it's a delicious line 150 00:08:22,120 --> 00:08:24,960 Speaker 2: because it has this historical potency. 151 00:08:26,120 --> 00:08:27,520 Speaker 3: So what are the two migrations? 152 00:08:29,720 --> 00:08:32,640 Speaker 1: The first migration was on the African American side of 153 00:08:32,640 --> 00:08:35,920 Speaker 1: my family, coming from Florida and South Carolina. We came 154 00:08:36,000 --> 00:08:40,200 Speaker 1: from descendants of enslaved Africans. We were able to trace 155 00:08:40,360 --> 00:08:44,360 Speaker 1: one ancestor to a plantation in Darlington, South Carolina. So 156 00:08:44,440 --> 00:08:47,880 Speaker 1: that's how far back we go this side of the family. 157 00:08:48,000 --> 00:08:52,319 Speaker 1: The Alfords and the Kylers migrated north looking for work, 158 00:08:52,760 --> 00:08:55,400 Speaker 1: also looking to escape the terror of the South, the 159 00:08:55,520 --> 00:09:00,160 Speaker 1: racial terror, the KKK, and the segregation that didn't allow 160 00:09:00,200 --> 00:09:03,560 Speaker 1: them to lead the fullest lives possible. So they go 161 00:09:03,640 --> 00:09:07,320 Speaker 1: to Syracuse looking for work, I mean, looking for opportunities. 162 00:09:06,679 --> 00:09:08,600 Speaker 3: Place that they cannot imagine. 163 00:09:08,840 --> 00:09:12,040 Speaker 4: I was like, dang, could y'all pick like Philly, DC, 164 00:09:12,559 --> 00:09:14,800 Speaker 4: like something? But they chose the coldest place. 165 00:09:15,000 --> 00:09:18,440 Speaker 1: And my grandfather, the Alfred Side, he worked at a 166 00:09:18,440 --> 00:09:25,480 Speaker 1: steel factory for decades and then from Bayamo, Puerto Rico. 167 00:09:25,760 --> 00:09:29,040 Speaker 1: My grandmother, she came in the fifties to New York 168 00:09:29,080 --> 00:09:32,520 Speaker 1: City and was a country girl in some sense. 169 00:09:32,920 --> 00:09:35,080 Speaker 3: Was she a part of Operation Bootstrap? Officially? 170 00:09:35,559 --> 00:09:37,600 Speaker 1: I actually I haven't been able to confirm, but that 171 00:09:37,720 --> 00:09:40,880 Speaker 1: was the era in which she came to New York City. 172 00:09:40,800 --> 00:09:44,280 Speaker 2: And the idea behind Operation Bootstrap was We're going to 173 00:09:44,360 --> 00:09:46,640 Speaker 2: find you work, leave that island. 174 00:09:46,960 --> 00:09:49,160 Speaker 3: The American dream is waiting for you here, just a 175 00:09:49,200 --> 00:09:50,000 Speaker 3: plane right away. 176 00:09:50,200 --> 00:09:53,920 Speaker 8: During the nineteen fifties, the migration of over one third 177 00:09:54,000 --> 00:09:58,840 Speaker 8: of the Puerto Rican workforce was justified as a necessary 178 00:09:58,960 --> 00:10:02,160 Speaker 8: but temporary w of alleviating unemployment. 179 00:10:02,360 --> 00:10:05,880 Speaker 1: Absolutely, come work in these factories, come to places like 180 00:10:05,960 --> 00:10:11,120 Speaker 1: New York City, and in many ways the American Dream 181 00:10:11,400 --> 00:10:16,320 Speaker 1: was not fully realized because certain Puerto Ricans found that 182 00:10:16,400 --> 00:10:19,520 Speaker 1: they were treated with suspicion. There was a lot of xenophobia, 183 00:10:19,640 --> 00:10:23,040 Speaker 1: even New York City newspapers talking about Puerto Ricans as 184 00:10:23,040 --> 00:10:25,880 Speaker 1: if they were diseased and dirty and to be feared 185 00:10:26,400 --> 00:10:27,839 Speaker 1: sounds familiar, right. 186 00:10:27,679 --> 00:10:29,480 Speaker 3: It's just the full circleness. 187 00:10:29,559 --> 00:10:30,000 Speaker 4: That's right. 188 00:10:30,080 --> 00:10:32,760 Speaker 1: And so when you see Americans today who don't know 189 00:10:32,800 --> 00:10:36,520 Speaker 1: that Puerto Ricans are citizens, that is a failure of 190 00:10:37,440 --> 00:10:42,079 Speaker 1: historical education because we go back pretty far for people 191 00:10:42,080 --> 00:10:45,280 Speaker 1: to not understand that. And so when I look at 192 00:10:45,360 --> 00:10:49,079 Speaker 1: the election results and I see people who are rightfully 193 00:10:49,120 --> 00:10:53,439 Speaker 1: angry and upset, I say, well, one, it was taken 194 00:10:53,480 --> 00:10:55,760 Speaker 1: for granted that you would understand why we'd be in 195 00:10:55,800 --> 00:10:59,880 Speaker 1: solidarity with each other. That history was not retold in 196 00:11:00,000 --> 00:11:02,320 Speaker 1: the way that it needs to be retold from generation 197 00:11:02,440 --> 00:11:05,559 Speaker 1: to generation. And so now there's a feeling of betrayal 198 00:11:06,000 --> 00:11:10,840 Speaker 1: and anger and distrust. And so in many ways, the 199 00:11:10,880 --> 00:11:14,120 Speaker 1: book feels like it's for this time, for what we're 200 00:11:14,120 --> 00:11:14,760 Speaker 1: going through. 201 00:11:15,200 --> 00:11:19,680 Speaker 2: Right, because your memoir is essentially looking at that is saying, yes, 202 00:11:20,120 --> 00:11:23,280 Speaker 2: I'm a black woman, I'm a Black American woman, and 203 00:11:23,320 --> 00:11:27,720 Speaker 2: I'm Puerto Rican, I'm Latina, and always managing these two 204 00:11:27,760 --> 00:11:32,079 Speaker 2: parts of yourself. And even in your title, which I loved. 205 00:11:32,120 --> 00:11:33,760 Speaker 2: When I saw the title, I was like, that is 206 00:11:33,880 --> 00:11:34,960 Speaker 2: such a great title. 207 00:11:35,080 --> 00:11:35,680 Speaker 4: Oh thank you. 208 00:11:35,880 --> 00:11:36,559 Speaker 3: I was scared. 209 00:11:36,679 --> 00:11:40,360 Speaker 4: I was scared at first. I was discouraged. 210 00:11:40,480 --> 00:11:44,760 Speaker 1: Actually I was told, don't call it American, Negro because 211 00:11:44,760 --> 00:11:46,760 Speaker 1: people are going to be afraid to say negata because 212 00:11:46,760 --> 00:11:49,040 Speaker 1: they think it means the N word. Like there was 213 00:11:49,080 --> 00:11:52,120 Speaker 1: the lack of trust that people could make the connection 214 00:11:52,440 --> 00:11:55,480 Speaker 1: and see it as a Spanish word, that people would 215 00:11:55,480 --> 00:11:57,920 Speaker 1: even say it right, And I'm like, no, teach them 216 00:11:57,920 --> 00:12:00,000 Speaker 1: how to say it. Teach them how to say negat, 217 00:12:00,720 --> 00:12:04,000 Speaker 1: Teach them how to understand what it means, how the 218 00:12:04,080 --> 00:12:05,079 Speaker 1: layers to the word. 219 00:12:05,520 --> 00:12:08,520 Speaker 4: So that makes me happy you feel that way. 220 00:12:08,600 --> 00:12:11,760 Speaker 2: And you know what, it can be a term of endearment, 221 00:12:11,760 --> 00:12:14,520 Speaker 2: but it can also be an insult in the. 222 00:12:14,520 --> 00:12:17,680 Speaker 4: Turn of Yeah, just the tone. 223 00:12:17,840 --> 00:12:22,000 Speaker 1: I have to shut out the documentary Negriita because it 224 00:12:22,240 --> 00:12:25,880 Speaker 1: just brilliantly talks about the ways in which it toes 225 00:12:25,920 --> 00:12:26,600 Speaker 1: that line. 226 00:12:26,880 --> 00:12:28,559 Speaker 4: What does the term negnita mean to you? 227 00:12:29,640 --> 00:12:33,040 Speaker 3: Well, negnita to me is not like a word, is. 228 00:12:33,000 --> 00:12:36,200 Speaker 4: More like a compliment. Negrita means to me the color 229 00:12:36,240 --> 00:12:39,760 Speaker 4: of your skin. And again that even when it's said 230 00:12:39,800 --> 00:12:40,160 Speaker 4: in love. 231 00:12:40,240 --> 00:12:43,400 Speaker 1: Because my mother she was the so called negriita of 232 00:12:43,440 --> 00:12:46,559 Speaker 1: her family just because she was darker than the rest 233 00:12:46,600 --> 00:12:50,839 Speaker 1: of the family. But she's not a black woman. She's mestizas, 234 00:12:50,920 --> 00:12:55,240 Speaker 1: she's racially mixed. But the idea of like singling out 235 00:12:55,320 --> 00:12:56,080 Speaker 1: the person. 236 00:12:55,800 --> 00:12:59,400 Speaker 4: Who is darker. Why, like, why do we do that? 237 00:12:59,559 --> 00:13:02,920 Speaker 1: Yes, it's said in love, but also to focus on 238 00:13:03,240 --> 00:13:05,319 Speaker 1: the racial the phenotype. 239 00:13:05,440 --> 00:13:08,199 Speaker 4: The skin color is almost a singling out. 240 00:13:08,679 --> 00:13:11,280 Speaker 1: And there are people who may get offended by even 241 00:13:11,360 --> 00:13:14,319 Speaker 1: just asking the question, but I asked them to put 242 00:13:14,360 --> 00:13:16,480 Speaker 1: themselves in another person's shoes. 243 00:13:16,640 --> 00:13:18,480 Speaker 4: You're walking down the street and. 244 00:13:18,360 --> 00:13:20,400 Speaker 1: You are called out by the color of your skin, 245 00:13:20,559 --> 00:13:23,080 Speaker 1: even if it is to say you're fine, you know, 246 00:13:23,160 --> 00:13:27,160 Speaker 1: you're beautiful. What does that make you feel like? Does 247 00:13:27,200 --> 00:13:29,240 Speaker 1: it make you feel odd? Does it make you feel 248 00:13:29,280 --> 00:13:32,600 Speaker 1: as if you're being told you are different from everyone else? 249 00:13:33,480 --> 00:13:34,720 Speaker 4: It's something to consider. 250 00:13:34,880 --> 00:13:38,400 Speaker 1: And so I think with documentaries like negat Eto or 251 00:13:38,440 --> 00:13:42,760 Speaker 1: books like American Negta, people who have made assumptions about 252 00:13:43,559 --> 00:13:45,839 Speaker 1: why we do what we do can maybe like take 253 00:13:45,840 --> 00:13:47,800 Speaker 1: a step back and do a little bit of reflecting, 254 00:13:47,840 --> 00:13:49,000 Speaker 1: even if it's uncomfortable. 255 00:13:49,440 --> 00:13:51,839 Speaker 2: So can you talk a little bit about your childhood 256 00:13:52,120 --> 00:13:56,240 Speaker 2: and how you managed being a black girl who also 257 00:13:56,320 --> 00:13:59,560 Speaker 2: knew you were Latina, who heard Spanish even if you 258 00:13:59,559 --> 00:14:03,280 Speaker 2: weren't in it, you knew that there was also this 259 00:14:03,400 --> 00:14:05,240 Speaker 2: other side of you. How did you manage that as 260 00:14:05,280 --> 00:14:07,400 Speaker 2: a kid? And what were the cues that you were getting, 261 00:14:07,559 --> 00:14:09,320 Speaker 2: if any, and from where. 262 00:14:09,200 --> 00:14:11,000 Speaker 4: People wanted to know if I was mixed. 263 00:14:11,360 --> 00:14:15,079 Speaker 1: That was really important, it seemed to the African American community. 264 00:14:15,520 --> 00:14:18,720 Speaker 1: So that question of are you mixed like people wanted 265 00:14:18,760 --> 00:14:21,760 Speaker 1: to know how to place me because sometimes people think 266 00:14:21,800 --> 00:14:24,360 Speaker 1: they're black, but like not like you right like they. 267 00:14:24,280 --> 00:14:26,000 Speaker 4: Want to really emphasize the difference. 268 00:14:26,200 --> 00:14:29,320 Speaker 1: I'm not black like that, I'm black in this way, 269 00:14:29,360 --> 00:14:33,000 Speaker 1: I'm tied to this country. So one I think growing 270 00:14:33,040 --> 00:14:35,840 Speaker 1: up in segregated Upstate New York with a high African 271 00:14:35,920 --> 00:14:40,600 Speaker 1: American population, the question was do you think you're black special? 272 00:14:40,840 --> 00:14:42,800 Speaker 4: Like, do you think you're exotic or something? Or do 273 00:14:42,880 --> 00:14:43,880 Speaker 4: you think you're like us? 274 00:14:44,120 --> 00:14:48,000 Speaker 1: Once people realized that I was just a normal, regular person, 275 00:14:48,640 --> 00:14:50,200 Speaker 1: I was very much accepted. 276 00:14:50,920 --> 00:14:56,320 Speaker 4: On the other side of it was do you speak Spanish? 277 00:14:56,560 --> 00:14:59,200 Speaker 1: That was like a big thing for people to figure 278 00:14:59,200 --> 00:15:01,880 Speaker 1: out whether they could see me as a Latina And 279 00:15:02,080 --> 00:15:05,000 Speaker 1: I got that from everybody that wasn't just from African 280 00:15:05,000 --> 00:15:08,040 Speaker 1: Americans or from Latinos. People need to know that to 281 00:15:08,200 --> 00:15:10,400 Speaker 1: understand how close you are to the culture. 282 00:15:10,920 --> 00:15:12,920 Speaker 4: But that doesn't capture what. 283 00:15:12,840 --> 00:15:15,320 Speaker 1: It's like when your mom is wake up on Sunday 284 00:15:15,440 --> 00:15:19,240 Speaker 1: and cleaning the house, blasting salsa, and she's telling you 285 00:15:19,280 --> 00:15:21,800 Speaker 1: to take your stockings off and wash them every night. 286 00:15:23,240 --> 00:15:25,640 Speaker 1: So I wanted to write a book to help people 287 00:15:25,720 --> 00:15:28,480 Speaker 1: understand what it's like to grow up with a Latina mom, 288 00:15:28,640 --> 00:15:31,560 Speaker 1: but to also be in between these worlds of being 289 00:15:31,600 --> 00:15:34,360 Speaker 1: seen as Black American by the world. 290 00:15:37,720 --> 00:15:41,240 Speaker 2: Coming up on Latino USA, we continue my conversation with 291 00:15:41,400 --> 00:15:45,720 Speaker 2: Natasha Alfred, author of the memoir American Negative. We're going 292 00:15:45,800 --> 00:15:47,600 Speaker 2: to talk about what it's like to grow up as 293 00:15:47,680 --> 00:15:51,120 Speaker 2: a black Puerto Rican girl in Syracuse, New York. And 294 00:15:51,200 --> 00:15:55,040 Speaker 2: also she's going to share secrets of Black Girl Hair University. 295 00:15:55,360 --> 00:15:57,880 Speaker 2: Uh huh, Black Girl Hair University. 296 00:15:58,280 --> 00:15:59,520 Speaker 3: Stay with us? Not there? 297 00:15:59,480 --> 00:15:59,640 Speaker 4: Why? 298 00:15:59,720 --> 00:16:08,920 Speaker 2: Yes, Hey, we're back and today I'm speaking with journalist 299 00:16:09,080 --> 00:16:13,760 Speaker 2: Natasha Alford about her memoir American Negata. In the book, 300 00:16:14,040 --> 00:16:16,920 Speaker 2: Natasha opens up about what it was like to grow 301 00:16:17,000 --> 00:16:20,840 Speaker 2: up as an Afro Latina in upstate New York, but 302 00:16:21,280 --> 00:16:24,960 Speaker 2: there no one really saw her as Latina because of 303 00:16:25,000 --> 00:16:27,520 Speaker 2: the color of her skin. We're going to go back 304 00:16:27,520 --> 00:16:31,680 Speaker 2: to the moment when Natasha changed her relationship to herself 305 00:16:32,080 --> 00:16:36,040 Speaker 2: through her hair. Let's jump back into the conversation when 306 00:16:36,080 --> 00:16:38,920 Speaker 2: Natasha Alfred, I'm so glad that you decided to write 307 00:16:38,920 --> 00:16:42,560 Speaker 2: about all of it, but especially Black Girl Hair University. 308 00:16:43,960 --> 00:16:45,360 Speaker 4: I think I probably made that up. 309 00:16:45,440 --> 00:16:48,280 Speaker 3: Yeah, but it's so good. Yeah, yeah, it's so good. 310 00:16:48,600 --> 00:16:51,520 Speaker 2: So the story is that you're ten years old and 311 00:16:51,560 --> 00:16:55,000 Speaker 2: you say to your mommy, mommy, can you buy me 312 00:16:55,120 --> 00:16:58,120 Speaker 2: some hair relaxer? Right, because you would go to the 313 00:16:58,200 --> 00:17:01,120 Speaker 2: store and all of the pictures on the boxes of 314 00:17:01,160 --> 00:17:02,720 Speaker 2: the hair relaxers. 315 00:17:02,440 --> 00:17:05,840 Speaker 1: They look like little black pageant dolls, right, like you know, 316 00:17:05,920 --> 00:17:10,080 Speaker 1: the John Benet Ramsey type, the big beautiful, long, lush hair, 317 00:17:10,200 --> 00:17:12,440 Speaker 1: these big guys, and I'm like, I want to look 318 00:17:12,480 --> 00:17:14,720 Speaker 1: like them. It's the just for me box. That was 319 00:17:14,760 --> 00:17:19,040 Speaker 1: the perm box. And she tried it. It smelled like eggs. 320 00:17:19,480 --> 00:17:22,240 Speaker 1: It burned my head. I was like, please get this out. 321 00:17:22,320 --> 00:17:24,000 Speaker 1: I was like begging for her to wash it, and 322 00:17:24,040 --> 00:17:26,560 Speaker 1: it just it was a bust. It did not work out. 323 00:17:27,080 --> 00:17:29,879 Speaker 1: And then we went to some of the family members 324 00:17:29,920 --> 00:17:32,560 Speaker 1: on the African American side and said what do we do? 325 00:17:33,200 --> 00:17:37,200 Speaker 1: They got us a professional recommendation who then came did 326 00:17:37,240 --> 00:17:40,679 Speaker 1: my hair permed it. It was bone straight and for 327 00:17:40,760 --> 00:17:44,240 Speaker 1: the first time I felt beautiful. I was like wow, 328 00:17:44,800 --> 00:17:47,480 Speaker 1: I look like the girls on TV. Now I don't 329 00:17:47,480 --> 00:17:52,000 Speaker 1: look like this fuzzy haired girl. Whatever it was that 330 00:17:52,119 --> 00:17:56,240 Speaker 1: made me feel not enough of either identity, I now 331 00:17:56,320 --> 00:18:04,080 Speaker 1: felt acceptable. And so on the African American side of things, 332 00:18:04,640 --> 00:18:07,920 Speaker 1: I was told my hair was good. People were very 333 00:18:07,960 --> 00:18:11,000 Speaker 1: impressed by the texture. They were amazed that it was 334 00:18:11,080 --> 00:18:14,440 Speaker 1: like so curly, but then could also be straightened. And 335 00:18:14,480 --> 00:18:18,600 Speaker 1: then on the Latino side, my hair to be polished, 336 00:18:18,640 --> 00:18:21,119 Speaker 1: to be presentable, it had to be straight. It was 337 00:18:21,200 --> 00:18:25,000 Speaker 1: about taking out the puff, taking out the texture. And 338 00:18:25,080 --> 00:18:28,840 Speaker 1: so in some ways they were similar, like we all 339 00:18:28,880 --> 00:18:32,080 Speaker 1: know that straight is the standard. But I think there 340 00:18:32,200 --> 00:18:36,960 Speaker 1: was a sense of appreciation on the African American side 341 00:18:37,000 --> 00:18:39,159 Speaker 1: for the versatility of what my hair could do. But 342 00:18:39,280 --> 00:18:42,200 Speaker 1: it is fascinating the way that both cultures thought of hair. 343 00:18:42,280 --> 00:18:46,040 Speaker 1: And so when I say black girl hair, university, knowing 344 00:18:46,080 --> 00:18:50,280 Speaker 1: how to cornrow, knowing how to do updues, all these 345 00:18:50,280 --> 00:18:52,840 Speaker 1: different ways I learned to care for my hair was 346 00:18:52,880 --> 00:18:55,240 Speaker 1: a part of my identity as a black Latino. 347 00:18:55,359 --> 00:18:59,200 Speaker 2: So it's Black folks were telling you you have good hair, yes, 348 00:18:59,480 --> 00:19:01,640 Speaker 2: but you perto Rican people were saying. 349 00:19:02,800 --> 00:19:05,480 Speaker 1: Yes, so good hair, yes, And it was society right. 350 00:19:05,600 --> 00:19:09,680 Speaker 1: It was more about the invisible messages. Thankfully my mother 351 00:19:10,400 --> 00:19:13,200 Speaker 1: did not surround me with people who were racially hostile 352 00:19:13,280 --> 00:19:16,000 Speaker 1: to me, thank god. But it was about opening up 353 00:19:16,040 --> 00:19:19,480 Speaker 1: a magazine and seeing how everybody looked and everybody's hair 354 00:19:19,560 --> 00:19:22,399 Speaker 1: was straight. Or when you're at your Auela's house and 355 00:19:22,440 --> 00:19:26,040 Speaker 1: she's watching TV and all the news anchors they're not 356 00:19:26,400 --> 00:19:30,040 Speaker 1: darker than a paper bag. Kids absorb those messages, even 357 00:19:30,080 --> 00:19:33,280 Speaker 1: if you don't say anything. And so I did not 358 00:19:33,520 --> 00:19:36,760 Speaker 1: do a full chop of perm out of my hair, 359 00:19:36,840 --> 00:19:40,320 Speaker 1: like cutting all the chemically damaged hair until I was 360 00:19:40,520 --> 00:19:43,439 Speaker 1: in my twenties. So that meant for years I was 361 00:19:43,480 --> 00:19:45,240 Speaker 1: denying myself the ability to. 362 00:19:45,160 --> 00:19:46,160 Speaker 4: See what the hair. 363 00:19:46,080 --> 00:19:49,240 Speaker 1: Looked like the way it was intended to be, because 364 00:19:49,280 --> 00:19:51,000 Speaker 1: I was constantly perming it, trying to. 365 00:19:50,920 --> 00:19:52,720 Speaker 4: Get it as straight as possible every time. 366 00:19:52,800 --> 00:19:54,920 Speaker 1: The irony is today, Maria, you could see my hair 367 00:19:54,960 --> 00:19:58,040 Speaker 1: is straight, but that is because I'm getting a braid 368 00:19:58,119 --> 00:19:58,960 Speaker 1: style very soon. 369 00:19:59,080 --> 00:20:01,280 Speaker 3: So this was just the preparation. 370 00:20:01,359 --> 00:20:05,120 Speaker 1: Yes, this is step one of the preparation process. But yes, 371 00:20:05,320 --> 00:20:07,679 Speaker 1: I've learned to love my hair, and that took years. 372 00:20:09,040 --> 00:20:11,680 Speaker 2: And also I love this comparison right where you talk 373 00:20:11,720 --> 00:20:16,360 Speaker 2: about you know, I understand the King Senira really as 374 00:20:16,400 --> 00:20:21,480 Speaker 2: another experience of the debutante balls for young black women, right, 375 00:20:21,640 --> 00:20:23,480 Speaker 2: which we a lot of us don't know about, but 376 00:20:23,560 --> 00:20:27,080 Speaker 2: it's a huge thing, the debutant balls. And then you 377 00:20:27,240 --> 00:20:31,480 Speaker 2: have a moment where you actually use the song from 378 00:20:31,520 --> 00:20:35,000 Speaker 2: our Queen Selia Cruz. You come out with your court 379 00:20:35,080 --> 00:20:42,480 Speaker 2: to the song as Yes, And I'm just wondering, was 380 00:20:42,520 --> 00:20:44,359 Speaker 2: this a moment where you're like, Okay, I'm bringing the 381 00:20:44,400 --> 00:20:47,880 Speaker 2: two parts of myself together. What was the conversation going 382 00:20:47,920 --> 00:20:51,640 Speaker 2: on as you prepared to celebrate your kinse and to use. 383 00:20:51,480 --> 00:20:53,879 Speaker 3: This song from Selia Cruz as you're coming out. 384 00:20:54,720 --> 00:20:57,760 Speaker 4: That moment with Asuka was beautiful. 385 00:20:58,160 --> 00:21:01,120 Speaker 1: I get teary eyed actually thinking about it now, because 386 00:21:01,520 --> 00:21:06,520 Speaker 1: it was a young girl fully walking into herself and 387 00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:11,680 Speaker 1: accepting all sides of herself. I felt so at peace 388 00:21:11,720 --> 00:21:15,440 Speaker 1: in that moment, like I felt so seen right because 389 00:21:15,560 --> 00:21:22,080 Speaker 1: I needed the Quen Sanetta space to affirm my lived experience. 390 00:21:22,359 --> 00:21:25,160 Speaker 1: I am very much growing up a Puerto Rican girl, 391 00:21:25,560 --> 00:21:27,840 Speaker 1: but the world is not seeing me that way. 392 00:21:27,960 --> 00:21:29,760 Speaker 4: The world is not always affirming that. 393 00:21:30,119 --> 00:21:32,960 Speaker 1: And so this is my coming out, my version of 394 00:21:33,000 --> 00:21:36,000 Speaker 1: a coming out ball where I'm like, no, this is 395 00:21:36,080 --> 00:21:38,680 Speaker 1: a part of me and I'm doing it my way. 396 00:21:38,720 --> 00:21:41,320 Speaker 1: That irony was most of my keen. Sangnetta Court was 397 00:21:41,440 --> 00:21:43,680 Speaker 1: African American, so we. 398 00:21:43,680 --> 00:21:44,960 Speaker 4: Had to teach them sassa. 399 00:21:45,119 --> 00:21:49,600 Speaker 1: So we would have practices every week in this gymnasium. 400 00:21:49,119 --> 00:21:50,080 Speaker 3: Change their lives. 401 00:21:50,480 --> 00:21:52,480 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, because you know, sasa is a good like 402 00:21:52,600 --> 00:21:57,320 Speaker 1: skill set for life. But they learned it out of 403 00:21:57,560 --> 00:22:00,119 Speaker 1: respect for my culture and love for me. 404 00:22:00,440 --> 00:22:01,560 Speaker 4: Isn't that a beautiful thing? 405 00:22:01,960 --> 00:22:06,400 Speaker 1: That's solidarity too, right, learning about each other's cultures and 406 00:22:06,480 --> 00:22:09,119 Speaker 1: showing up for each other in that way. So the 407 00:22:09,440 --> 00:22:13,240 Speaker 1: King Sam was it was beautiful. I try to paint 408 00:22:13,280 --> 00:22:15,719 Speaker 1: that scene in the book because I want people to see. 409 00:22:15,880 --> 00:22:20,280 Speaker 1: But the debutante ball thing was an important acknowledgment that 410 00:22:20,440 --> 00:22:25,719 Speaker 1: class mattered too, because the debutantes that were coming out 411 00:22:25,880 --> 00:22:29,000 Speaker 1: in the black community in Syracuse or just in general 412 00:22:29,320 --> 00:22:33,080 Speaker 1: were from an upper middle class of black people that 413 00:22:33,160 --> 00:22:34,040 Speaker 1: I wasn't a part of. 414 00:22:34,640 --> 00:22:37,600 Speaker 4: We're very much working class. My father is a custodian. 415 00:22:37,960 --> 00:22:40,600 Speaker 1: He goes, he cleans toilets, he comes home, he does 416 00:22:40,640 --> 00:22:44,199 Speaker 1: another shift. My mom's a public school teacher. Like we 417 00:22:44,280 --> 00:22:48,720 Speaker 1: are the typical working class family and so the Debutante 418 00:22:48,760 --> 00:22:52,680 Speaker 1: to me represented an upper black class that was out 419 00:22:52,760 --> 00:22:55,280 Speaker 1: of touch at that point that it felt like I 420 00:22:55,400 --> 00:22:57,760 Speaker 1: wasn't a part of and I didn't have what they had. 421 00:22:58,160 --> 00:23:00,719 Speaker 1: And so yes, that's why I didn't feel like I 422 00:23:00,760 --> 00:23:02,840 Speaker 1: was missing anything because I was like, well, I'm not 423 00:23:02,880 --> 00:23:06,800 Speaker 1: really part of that black upper class, but this is 424 00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:09,080 Speaker 1: my culture, this is where I come from. 425 00:23:09,600 --> 00:23:11,560 Speaker 3: So you add the whole element. 426 00:23:11,240 --> 00:23:14,040 Speaker 4: Of class, Oh yes, all through the book. 427 00:23:14,160 --> 00:23:15,760 Speaker 3: And you talk about it very openly. 428 00:23:15,800 --> 00:23:18,280 Speaker 2: And I love the fact that you just called out 429 00:23:18,320 --> 00:23:20,880 Speaker 2: your dad for being a custodian who was cleaning toilets, 430 00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:22,160 Speaker 2: because that's what you end up. 431 00:23:22,040 --> 00:23:25,720 Speaker 6: Doing full circle just before you get accepted to Harvard, 432 00:23:26,960 --> 00:23:29,240 Speaker 6: and you're like, okay, but the only way that I 433 00:23:29,280 --> 00:23:31,960 Speaker 6: can do it is I actually have to work, and 434 00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:33,679 Speaker 6: you have to clean the dorm rooms. 435 00:23:34,480 --> 00:23:37,280 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, for all of the kids just before they arrived. 436 00:23:37,320 --> 00:23:38,840 Speaker 2: And I'm like, oh my gosh. 437 00:23:38,960 --> 00:23:44,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, that was one humbling because again, people here Harvard 438 00:23:44,240 --> 00:23:47,040 Speaker 1: and they always make assumptions, but there was a group 439 00:23:47,080 --> 00:23:51,520 Speaker 1: of kids who were cleaning other students' toilets before school started. 440 00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:55,640 Speaker 1: We came early, two weeks before the semester started. We 441 00:23:55,640 --> 00:23:58,560 Speaker 1: were paid a nice wage for it, and that was 442 00:23:58,640 --> 00:24:00,720 Speaker 1: my That's what my parents saw there. Oh, go make 443 00:24:00,760 --> 00:24:03,280 Speaker 1: some money, because we are not going to have a 444 00:24:03,320 --> 00:24:04,679 Speaker 1: ton of spending money for you. 445 00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:06,960 Speaker 4: At the school we had, the athlete's toilets were the 446 00:24:07,040 --> 00:24:10,000 Speaker 4: roughest ones. Their toilets were rough. 447 00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:11,840 Speaker 1: I was like, oh, my godness, any want cleaned this 448 00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:16,479 Speaker 1: toilet in a year, Like this is crazy. But the 449 00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:18,720 Speaker 1: fact that I didn't really blink and it was like, oh, 450 00:24:18,760 --> 00:24:21,679 Speaker 1: this is just what we do was very much a 451 00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:24,880 Speaker 1: class thing. I'm sure it was a tad self conscious, 452 00:24:24,880 --> 00:24:28,720 Speaker 1: but the actual act of cleaning a toilet. My father 453 00:24:28,760 --> 00:24:30,560 Speaker 1: taught me that at ten. He's like, this is what 454 00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:33,000 Speaker 1: you need to do to survive in life. You need 455 00:24:33,040 --> 00:24:35,920 Speaker 1: to know how to boil an egg, clean after yourself. 456 00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:38,199 Speaker 1: Like these were just things that we were taught to do. 457 00:24:38,280 --> 00:24:41,080 Speaker 1: So I'm like, oh, cleaning toilets like at home. And 458 00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:43,400 Speaker 1: it wasn't until later that I was like, oh, while 459 00:24:43,440 --> 00:24:46,640 Speaker 1: I was cleaning toilets, there were kids who were networking, 460 00:24:47,080 --> 00:24:49,920 Speaker 1: and it's like, that's what you're supposed to be doing 461 00:24:49,960 --> 00:24:54,800 Speaker 1: before school starts, not cleaning toilets. So even at that 462 00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:59,720 Speaker 1: school and institution, there are hidden rules that you don't 463 00:24:59,760 --> 00:25:04,040 Speaker 1: know that you have to learn that. You may go 464 00:25:04,119 --> 00:25:07,000 Speaker 1: through those four years and get the degree, but your 465 00:25:07,080 --> 00:25:09,560 Speaker 1: experience is going to be different from someone coming from. 466 00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:12,800 Speaker 4: A different class. And that's what people have to see 467 00:25:13,160 --> 00:25:17,359 Speaker 4: when we talk about education. It's not just about getting it. 468 00:25:18,920 --> 00:25:21,960 Speaker 2: So then there's a whole other added element of complexity 469 00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:24,600 Speaker 2: to your life story, which actually begins if I'm not 470 00:25:24,800 --> 00:25:29,440 Speaker 2: mistaken in college, because you end up having some health scares. 471 00:25:29,760 --> 00:25:33,080 Speaker 2: So just tell us what happens, because you actually you 472 00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:37,240 Speaker 2: leave Harvard, you go back to Puerto Rico to write 473 00:25:37,280 --> 00:25:41,800 Speaker 2: your thesis, and that's I think where your health scare starts. 474 00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:44,720 Speaker 3: So can you take us to that space. 475 00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:53,280 Speaker 1: Yes, I was in my junior year of college and 476 00:25:53,680 --> 00:25:56,080 Speaker 1: I was under a lot of stress. I was doing 477 00:25:56,119 --> 00:26:00,120 Speaker 1: too much. I think that there's an element of perfectionism 478 00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:05,960 Speaker 1: and striving and insecurity about making it right. Like you think, 479 00:26:05,960 --> 00:26:08,439 Speaker 1: because you've cleared one hurdle, that's where it stops. No, 480 00:26:08,600 --> 00:26:12,000 Speaker 1: that's just where it starts. And so I do believe 481 00:26:12,800 --> 00:26:16,280 Speaker 1: in spirituality. I believe in the connection between the spirit 482 00:26:16,320 --> 00:26:19,040 Speaker 1: and the body, and I think that I was carrying 483 00:26:19,080 --> 00:26:19,520 Speaker 1: a lot. 484 00:26:19,840 --> 00:26:23,959 Speaker 4: But my junior spring, I started seeing bruises on my body. 485 00:26:25,119 --> 00:26:28,280 Speaker 1: Initially dismissed them, didn't think anything of it, was too 486 00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:32,159 Speaker 1: busy to investigate until I was forced to go to 487 00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:35,760 Speaker 1: the hospital and the doctors looked at me and they said, 488 00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:36,920 Speaker 1: we don't know what you're doing. 489 00:26:37,280 --> 00:26:38,840 Speaker 4: We don't know what's going on, but you need to 490 00:26:38,840 --> 00:26:40,240 Speaker 4: go to the hospital right now. 491 00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:43,320 Speaker 1: Because your blood platelet levels are so low that if 492 00:26:43,320 --> 00:26:45,679 Speaker 1: you trip, if you fall, if you hit anything, you 493 00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:49,440 Speaker 1: can bleed to death. So I went to the hospital 494 00:26:50,040 --> 00:26:53,000 Speaker 1: and it was there that a series of tests began 495 00:26:53,359 --> 00:26:56,879 Speaker 1: which confirmed I had a blood disorder called ITP. It 496 00:26:57,040 --> 00:26:59,920 Speaker 1: stands for idiopathic throw on both sides to panic proper, 497 00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:01,680 Speaker 1: and it basically means your. 498 00:27:01,560 --> 00:27:02,480 Speaker 4: Blood isn't clotting. 499 00:27:03,119 --> 00:27:05,439 Speaker 1: I would have to go to the Dana Farber Cancer 500 00:27:05,480 --> 00:27:09,560 Speaker 1: Institute as a twenty something as they tried to figure 501 00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:16,000 Speaker 1: out this illness. It doesn't have an official cause. They 502 00:27:16,040 --> 00:27:18,080 Speaker 1: wanted to take my spleen out. There are all these 503 00:27:18,119 --> 00:27:20,959 Speaker 1: things they wanted to do, and I weave it in 504 00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:24,760 Speaker 1: with culture because culturally, my mom, as a Puerto Rican woman, 505 00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:31,080 Speaker 1: was very distrustful of medical institutions. My abuelo died sitting 506 00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:34,119 Speaker 1: in a waiting room in an er, and so she 507 00:27:34,400 --> 00:27:37,400 Speaker 1: just felt like, do you really have to do all 508 00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:40,920 Speaker 1: these things? Can't we try natural remedies? So I talk 509 00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:44,239 Speaker 1: a bit about that where that suspicion comes from in 510 00:27:44,280 --> 00:27:47,000 Speaker 1: the Puerto Rican community and in the African American community, 511 00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:51,120 Speaker 1: But it was pretty devastating. When you're young, you take 512 00:27:51,119 --> 00:27:54,000 Speaker 1: your health for granted, but being sick takes up a 513 00:27:54,119 --> 00:27:57,359 Speaker 1: large amount of headspace. What it takes to get up 514 00:27:57,400 --> 00:28:00,800 Speaker 1: every day and to continue pursuing your goals or going 515 00:28:00,800 --> 00:28:05,440 Speaker 1: through the motions while also maintaining your health, resting, doing 516 00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:09,320 Speaker 1: the things you're supposed to do that culturally and generationally 517 00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:10,879 Speaker 1: your friends are not doing. 518 00:28:11,560 --> 00:28:13,639 Speaker 4: That began a really long road for me. 519 00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:16,639 Speaker 1: And later I had just turned thirty when I was 520 00:28:16,680 --> 00:28:20,160 Speaker 1: diagnosed with lupus, and I think all those things are connected. 521 00:28:20,560 --> 00:28:23,160 Speaker 1: I think all those things are connected. So it had 522 00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:25,240 Speaker 1: to be written about though, because a lot of young 523 00:28:25,280 --> 00:28:28,880 Speaker 1: people hide their health issues. They think they can't talk 524 00:28:28,920 --> 00:28:31,240 Speaker 1: about it, they shouldn't talk about it for career or 525 00:28:31,320 --> 00:28:32,360 Speaker 1: professional reasons. 526 00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:33,880 Speaker 4: And I just wanted to take. 527 00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:37,119 Speaker 1: That veil off and help people to understand this is 528 00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:40,320 Speaker 1: what it's like to live with chronic illness. But also 529 00:28:40,400 --> 00:28:42,920 Speaker 1: this is what it takes to take care of yourself, 530 00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:45,520 Speaker 1: because in the hiding sometimes you can. 531 00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:46,320 Speaker 4: Also hurt yourself. 532 00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:49,440 Speaker 2: You're such a great journalist because I like to say 533 00:28:49,480 --> 00:28:51,440 Speaker 2: that a great journalist is one that is not afraid 534 00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:55,480 Speaker 2: of transparency, right, shining the light and do not be 535 00:28:55,520 --> 00:28:57,040 Speaker 2: afraid to tell our own story. 536 00:28:57,120 --> 00:29:00,640 Speaker 4: At the same time, it felt at times fail for 537 00:29:00,840 --> 00:29:01,200 Speaker 4: me to. 538 00:29:02,080 --> 00:29:04,840 Speaker 1: I was having like a crazy stellar year, like I'd 539 00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:08,960 Speaker 1: won NABJ Emerging Journalist and I wrote an op ed 540 00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:12,400 Speaker 1: in the New York Times about Afro Latinas and social media, 541 00:29:12,520 --> 00:29:15,600 Speaker 1: like all these people were congratulating me, and I was like, 542 00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:18,200 Speaker 1: but I'm hiding a huge part of my life, and 543 00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:22,160 Speaker 1: so I think you're right, Like the transparency probably was 544 00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:26,240 Speaker 1: just part of the journalists orientation, but it was necessary 545 00:29:26,280 --> 00:29:27,280 Speaker 1: for my survival. 546 00:29:28,120 --> 00:29:30,520 Speaker 2: There is this hunger that you have, right There is 547 00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:34,000 Speaker 2: this profound hunger, and it's a hunger that doesn't end 548 00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:37,720 Speaker 2: when you get that great job or you're now an 549 00:29:37,760 --> 00:29:41,040 Speaker 2: analyst on TV. There's a hunger that many of us 550 00:29:41,080 --> 00:29:44,680 Speaker 2: carry and that for you ends up being like already 551 00:29:44,800 --> 00:29:48,520 Speaker 2: have a master's think I'll go for another one. Oh gosh, 552 00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:52,120 Speaker 2: I think I'll go for another Masters at Princeton. 553 00:29:52,320 --> 00:29:54,600 Speaker 4: Oh us over a chamber. 554 00:29:54,640 --> 00:30:00,960 Speaker 1: You're having a child right while you're raising Yeah, that's well, 555 00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:02,360 Speaker 1: some of this were beautiful. 556 00:30:02,560 --> 00:30:04,400 Speaker 4: Yeah, it's both. It's definitely both. 557 00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:08,400 Speaker 1: Highly recommend therapy for people like me who would do 558 00:30:08,560 --> 00:30:12,480 Speaker 1: such a thing right. There's a lot of reasons why 559 00:30:12,520 --> 00:30:15,320 Speaker 1: I went back to school all these years later, with 560 00:30:15,400 --> 00:30:19,400 Speaker 1: a toddler, with TV and work and a book coming out. 561 00:30:20,080 --> 00:30:22,400 Speaker 4: But I think I wanted to do over. 562 00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:28,920 Speaker 1: I had gone through college undergrad at Harvard University specifically 563 00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:33,160 Speaker 1: scared a lot of it, scared of not being good 564 00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:37,200 Speaker 1: enough or smart enough, and so I wanted to go 565 00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:41,160 Speaker 1: having an educational experience where I was truly free. I 566 00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:44,000 Speaker 1: spent the past year at Princeton getting a Master of 567 00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:47,920 Speaker 1: Public Policy, and I would just ask questions, Like if 568 00:30:47,960 --> 00:30:49,440 Speaker 1: I had a question, I just ask it. I don't 569 00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:53,000 Speaker 1: care what anyone thinks I took classes I was interested in, 570 00:30:53,320 --> 00:30:54,360 Speaker 1: not what someone. 571 00:30:54,160 --> 00:30:57,960 Speaker 4: Thought I should take to appear smart. You get what 572 00:30:58,000 --> 00:30:59,600 Speaker 4: I'm saying, Like I'm feeling like I want to go 573 00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:00,400 Speaker 4: back to You. 574 00:31:00,360 --> 00:31:03,320 Speaker 1: Know, It's why so many women say I would never 575 00:31:03,360 --> 00:31:05,240 Speaker 1: do my twenties again, or I would never do my 576 00:31:05,520 --> 00:31:07,960 Speaker 1: because we know that we actually get better with time, 577 00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:11,719 Speaker 1: and we become, if we do it right, more of 578 00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:14,360 Speaker 1: our true selves. And so I was like, I deserve 579 00:31:14,480 --> 00:31:19,920 Speaker 1: an experience unburdened by other people's expectations or my own fears. 580 00:31:20,080 --> 00:31:21,920 Speaker 1: And there was a part of me that felt like 581 00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:25,360 Speaker 1: that's unfinished, Like you should go back and really get 582 00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:28,680 Speaker 1: that education you wanted, and for my son to be 583 00:31:28,800 --> 00:31:32,280 Speaker 1: part of it. And graduation. It was a moment that 584 00:31:32,320 --> 00:31:34,080 Speaker 1: went viral. Some people saw. 585 00:31:33,920 --> 00:31:36,320 Speaker 3: It Natasha Samuel Alfred. 586 00:31:36,120 --> 00:31:38,800 Speaker 4: Where my son was on stage with me at graduation 587 00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:43,640 Speaker 4: and of the Dean of Princeton asked him if he 588 00:31:43,720 --> 00:31:46,560 Speaker 4: wanted to put my hood on me and he said yes. 589 00:31:46,640 --> 00:31:49,640 Speaker 1: I don't know how he knew, he's only three, and 590 00:31:49,680 --> 00:31:51,920 Speaker 1: he did. And I just like broke down cry right 591 00:31:52,040 --> 00:31:54,120 Speaker 1: because I'm like, this is too much. 592 00:31:54,280 --> 00:31:58,240 Speaker 4: My son seeing this, my son motivating me, what a blessing. 593 00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:06,719 Speaker 2: So last question, I'm just wondering how you are managing 594 00:32:07,400 --> 00:32:12,960 Speaker 2: this moment, how you are thinking about our country, your island. 595 00:32:13,840 --> 00:32:18,920 Speaker 2: Puerto Rico became a central part of the conversation the 596 00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:21,600 Speaker 2: last few days of the presidential campaign in a way 597 00:32:21,600 --> 00:32:24,720 Speaker 2: that was really difficult and painful, and a lot of 598 00:32:24,800 --> 00:32:27,040 Speaker 2: us are really just trying to figure out how we 599 00:32:27,080 --> 00:32:30,800 Speaker 2: move forward. So how are you doing that and how 600 00:32:30,840 --> 00:32:34,480 Speaker 2: are you balancing that with being a mom, managing your health, 601 00:32:34,560 --> 00:32:35,800 Speaker 2: taking care of yourself. 602 00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:37,440 Speaker 3: How are you doing it? 603 00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:41,800 Speaker 1: I started to simplify, and just because I felt like 604 00:32:41,840 --> 00:32:46,720 Speaker 1: I'd given so much of myself these past almost ten 605 00:32:46,800 --> 00:32:51,200 Speaker 1: years and I just needed some time for myself. And 606 00:32:51,320 --> 00:32:55,880 Speaker 1: so once the election was called, I did have a 607 00:32:55,920 --> 00:32:58,720 Speaker 1: moment where I said, Okay, this is what the country wants. 608 00:32:58,800 --> 00:33:01,320 Speaker 1: It's not what all of us want, but enough of 609 00:33:01,360 --> 00:33:06,880 Speaker 1: the country wanted this. I can't be superwoman, right, I cannot. 610 00:33:06,760 --> 00:33:13,080 Speaker 4: Save the world. What I can do is invest in 611 00:33:13,160 --> 00:33:14,760 Speaker 4: my community. 612 00:33:14,840 --> 00:33:18,800 Speaker 1: And I think people have lost community in some sense 613 00:33:18,880 --> 00:33:24,400 Speaker 1: because the Internet makes us feel so connected, but it's 614 00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:26,160 Speaker 1: like you could be in your house all day and 615 00:33:26,200 --> 00:33:30,320 Speaker 1: not see a single person. And so I instantly went 616 00:33:30,400 --> 00:33:34,520 Speaker 1: inward and I said, it's oxygen mask it's me, my family, 617 00:33:34,680 --> 00:33:40,360 Speaker 1: my neighborhood, my city. I'm like doubling down on local 618 00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:45,000 Speaker 1: community and really having connections with people supporting the school 619 00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:49,160 Speaker 1: that my son goes to. Like that to me matters 620 00:33:49,320 --> 00:33:53,160 Speaker 1: because the Internet is so made up and there's so 621 00:33:53,240 --> 00:33:58,480 Speaker 1: many forces that are manipulating people like online that you're 622 00:33:58,520 --> 00:34:01,480 Speaker 1: going to have to have some real life connections and 623 00:34:01,520 --> 00:34:05,720 Speaker 1: relationships to counter act a lot of the propaganda that 624 00:34:05,760 --> 00:34:07,120 Speaker 1: people are being exposed to. 625 00:34:07,760 --> 00:34:09,160 Speaker 4: So that's where I'm at. 626 00:34:09,320 --> 00:34:12,160 Speaker 1: I see the journalism I'm doing as a public service. 627 00:34:12,719 --> 00:34:15,560 Speaker 1: I plan to do public service, which is part of 628 00:34:15,600 --> 00:34:19,400 Speaker 1: why I went to policy school. And I am okay 629 00:34:19,560 --> 00:34:24,680 Speaker 1: with not being the cleanup crew. Like I can't save America, 630 00:34:25,680 --> 00:34:28,560 Speaker 1: I can stand my ground. This is my country too. 631 00:34:28,760 --> 00:34:31,880 Speaker 1: As I said to Migrations, I'm not going to be 632 00:34:32,600 --> 00:34:35,960 Speaker 1: run out of America. But I'm going to fight for 633 00:34:36,080 --> 00:34:39,319 Speaker 1: America on my terms. And I'm not going to ruin 634 00:34:39,400 --> 00:34:41,880 Speaker 1: myself in the process because I have to have something 635 00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:42,520 Speaker 1: left to give. 636 00:34:47,120 --> 00:34:48,960 Speaker 2: Well, thank you for giving us the gift of you 637 00:34:49,040 --> 00:34:52,720 Speaker 2: being so present with me for this whole time, undisturbed. 638 00:34:53,239 --> 00:34:54,880 Speaker 4: Thank you. This was a gift. 639 00:34:54,960 --> 00:34:58,440 Speaker 1: As I said, how full circle from the quiz and 640 00:34:58,480 --> 00:35:01,160 Speaker 1: being like, yes, that is an exis ampleton now here. 641 00:35:01,360 --> 00:35:03,920 Speaker 4: So thank you. Thanks for making it possible. 642 00:35:32,239 --> 00:35:35,440 Speaker 2: This episode was produced by Monica Morales Garcia and edited 643 00:35:35,440 --> 00:35:38,680 Speaker 2: by Marta Martinez. It was mixed by Andy Bosnak, with 644 00:35:38,760 --> 00:35:42,760 Speaker 2: engineering support from JJ Carubin and Special Things to Gloria 645 00:35:42,800 --> 00:35:43,800 Speaker 2: mard Marquez. 646 00:35:43,440 --> 00:35:45,200 Speaker 3: Our field producer for this interview. 647 00:35:45,560 --> 00:35:49,480 Speaker 2: The Latino USA team also includes Julia Caruso, Jessica Elis, 648 00:35:49,560 --> 00:35:54,440 Speaker 2: Victoria Strada, Renaldo Lanos Junior, Stephanie Lebo, Andrea Lopez Grusado, 649 00:35:54,560 --> 00:35:59,160 Speaker 2: Luis Luna Ner Saudi and Nancy Trujillo. Penilee Ramirez is 650 00:35:59,200 --> 00:36:01,799 Speaker 2: our co executive producer along with myself and I'm your 651 00:36:01,800 --> 00:36:04,960 Speaker 2: host Marie no Hosa, join us again on our next episode. 652 00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:06,719 Speaker 2: In the meantime, look for us on all of your 653 00:36:06,719 --> 00:36:11,759 Speaker 2: social media. I'll see you on Instairam Yes, Rosima Yes. 654 00:36:15,680 --> 00:36:19,719 Speaker 5: Latino USA is made possible in part by New York 655 00:36:19,840 --> 00:36:24,440 Speaker 5: Women's Foundation. The New York Women's Foundation funding women leaders 656 00:36:24,480 --> 00:36:28,560 Speaker 5: that build solutions in their communities and celebrating thirty years 657 00:36:28,560 --> 00:36:34,880 Speaker 5: of radical generosity Michelle Mercer and Bruce Golden, and the 658 00:36:34,920 --> 00:36:38,680 Speaker 5: Ford Foundation working with visionaries on the front lines of 659 00:36:38,760 --> 00:36:42,920 Speaker 5: social change worldwide. 660 00:36:44,320 --> 00:36:46,960 Speaker 1: I know when books come out, it's like interview, talk 661 00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:49,800 Speaker 1: to this person, do this, do this. But how great 662 00:36:50,040 --> 00:36:52,040 Speaker 1: for us to have this conversation in the week of 663 00:36:52,080 --> 00:36:53,000 Speaker 1: what just happened