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Speaker 1: This program features the individual opinions of the hosts, guests,

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Speaker 1: and callers, and not necessarily those of the producer, the station,

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Speaker 1: it's affiliates, or sponsors. This is True Crime Tonight.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio or We're Talking

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Speaker 2: True Crime all the Time. Today is Thursday, January twenty second,

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Speaker 2: and listen. It would not be True Crime Tonight if

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Speaker 2: we did not have a stacked night of headlines. So

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Speaker 2: tonight we have a glimpse into the accused killer, Nick

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Speaker 2: Reiner's mental state and his current competency to stand trial

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Speaker 2: for the double murder of his very famous parents. And

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Speaker 2: a California mom, This one's this one's nuts. A California

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Speaker 2: mom is currently on trial for throwing wild, alcohol fueled

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Speaker 2: parties for her teenage son and his high school friends.

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Speaker 2: And there are even allegations from some of the kids

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Speaker 2: that she was also controlling their social life. It's insane.

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Speaker 2: And also we're going to do a deep dive into

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Speaker 2: the infamous Elizabeth Smart kidnapping case. So listen tonight, it's

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Speaker 2: just us chickens right, I'm body movin and I'm here

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Speaker 2: with true crime producer extraordinaire Courtney Armstrong and True Crime

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Speaker 2: Tonight producer to House and of course Sam and Adam

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Speaker 2: are working the boards. Stephanie is out tonight, she's on

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Speaker 2: her way to sun Dance. You're so proud and excited

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Speaker 2: for her. Maybe are wishing her nothing but the best.

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Speaker 2: And if she's listening, I hope you're packing, and I

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Speaker 2: hope you're packing some cute clothes because we can't wait

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Speaker 2: for the pictures. So, Courtney, where do you want to

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Speaker 2: start tonight?

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Speaker 3: You know I was thinking Nick Reiner? Oh yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 3: Back in the news a little bit, TMZ is bringing

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Speaker 3: up some a little bit more attention to the case

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Speaker 3: of the Rhiner family murder, and we have confirmation that

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Speaker 3: the defendant, Nick Reiner's long standing court ordered mental health

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Speaker 3: conservativeship is you know, a real thing that's going to

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Speaker 3: be impacting the upcoming friend trial.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that didn't shock anybody, I don't think, right, like,

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Speaker 2: oh yeah, no, I mean, by all accounts, he had

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Speaker 2: some issues.

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Speaker 3: Right absolutely, And you know, there's a little bit more

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Speaker 3: clarification on exactly like the formality of it. So, uh,

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Speaker 3: if you need to be caught up. The defendant, Nick Reiner,

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Speaker 3: is a thirty two year old son of the beloved

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Speaker 3: director Rob Reiner and his wife, photographer Michelle Reiner, and

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Speaker 3: Nick is accused of fatally stabbing them both to death

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Speaker 3: inside their home in Los Angeles. Has happened back in

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Speaker 3: December twenty twenty five. You guys may remember. It was

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Speaker 3: after famously, after a party at Conan O'Brien's, there were

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Speaker 3: potential altercations Betweenick Reiner Bill later, right.

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Speaker 2: Bill Hayter, That's right. It was something you know, he

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Speaker 2: was acting, according to you know reports, he was just

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Speaker 2: Nick Reiner was just kind of being really strange and

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Speaker 2: Bill hate even up till Bill hatern was like, are

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Speaker 2: you famous? And it was just kind of a strange altercation, yes, right, yeah.

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Speaker 2: And the case has drawn such such scrutiny, both because

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Speaker 2: of Robs Reiner's legacy that he has left us with

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Speaker 2: the most impactful movies of our time, which I don't

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Speaker 2: think is an overstatement, and then the thirty two year

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Speaker 2: old Nick Reiner's extensive history of mental illness, substance abuse,

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Speaker 2: and all of these are really coming to bear in

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Speaker 2: the legal proceedings, right, Like, is he going to be

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Speaker 2: criminally responsible because of these conditions?

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Speaker 4: Right?

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Speaker 2: Like, yeah, it's going to be it's gonna be a

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Speaker 2: rough pill to swallow for a lot of people, I.

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Speaker 3: Think, yeah, exactly, And it's just it's just very sad.

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Speaker 3: So Nick Reiner was arrested just mere hours after the killings.

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Speaker 3: He is charged with two counts of first degree murder

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Speaker 3: and if convicted, he faces life in prison or the

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Speaker 3: death penalty. But that's a little complicated because he even

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Speaker 3: let's make believe he sentenced to the death penalty. In California,

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Speaker 3: Governor Newsom has a hold, so there is.

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Speaker 2: There are no executions. Yeah, there's a man exactly right.

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Speaker 3: However, his past, Nick Reiner has been diagnosed at different

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Speaker 3: times with both schizophrenia and schizophrenic schizo effective disorder, and

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Speaker 3: in the period just leading up to the killings, Reiner

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Speaker 3: was under the care of a psychiatrist and was receiving

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Speaker 3: treatment and apparently underwent changes to the medication about one

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Speaker 3: month before the murders due to complaints of the side effects.

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Speaker 3: And we were just talking about this very thing right

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Speaker 3: the other night, and sort of what that was in

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Speaker 3: the Angie mock.

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Speaker 2: The newscaster, right, yes, newscaster who's accused of killing her mom, right, correct, that.

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Speaker 3: That's right, And she as well had a history of

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Speaker 3: schizophrenia that was documented, and in this moment she has

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Speaker 3: been deemed incompetent to stand child because literally she cannot

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Speaker 3: participate in her own defense.

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Speaker 2: Right, Like, these these medications alter the chemistry of your brain, right,

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Speaker 2: and when when when that chemistry is altered, you become

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Speaker 2: altered in effect, because your brain controls everything. Right, So yeah,

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Speaker 2: exactly right, right.

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Speaker 4: I think it was Stephanie who also She mentioned they

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Speaker 4: had changed his medication because there was so much weight

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Speaker 4: gain or something.

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Speaker 2: He didn't like the side effect, like he had gained

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Speaker 2: some weight and he didn't like the way, you know,

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Speaker 2: he was feeling on them, so they changed it. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: And and I don't know how. I don't know obviously,

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Speaker 2: I don't know what medication he's on, sure, but you

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Speaker 2: know they say it takes a while to have those

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Speaker 2: things build up. And I wonder, excuse me, I'm feeling

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Speaker 2: a little. I'm a little froggy tonight.

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Speaker 3: You guys sick baton around?

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Speaker 2: Yes, sorry, No, it's okay. I just wonder if like

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Speaker 2: a month because he had these switched a month ago, right,

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Speaker 2: or a month prior to the murders. I wonder if

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Speaker 2: it takes a month for these things to like build

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Speaker 2: up in your system, right, Like.

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Speaker 4: That's a good point.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I don't know.

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Speaker 3: I just wonder and also wanting to change medications due

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Speaker 3: to It can be weight gain, it can be total

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Speaker 3: and complete lack of sex drive. It can be feeling sedated.

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Speaker 3: And it's not inconsequential. Oh it's you know, I gained

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Speaker 3: five pounds. I mean I had someone close to me

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Speaker 3: who actually was suffering from schizophrenia and their medications.

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Speaker 2: It's a fifty.

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Speaker 3: Pound in the instance I'm thinking of. You know, the

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Speaker 3: medication caused a fifty pound weight gain, right then impacts

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Speaker 3: fsbility and right significant. So here's a bit of information

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Speaker 3: I was unaware of. And that's that thirty two year

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Speaker 3: old Nick Reiner was placed under what's called a Lantern

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Speaker 3: and Petris Short conservatorship six years ago. Now this was

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Speaker 3: back in twenty twenty, and it's a special conservatorship that's

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Speaker 3: reserved for adults who are deemed gravely disabled under California's

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Speaker 3: Welfare and Institutions COLD. So it's I mean, it's for

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Speaker 3: people who, for reasons of their mental disorder, is unable

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Speaker 3: to provide the real basics of food or clothing or

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Speaker 3: shelter for themselves.

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Speaker 2: Wow, so we're dependent on someone, right, Okay, completely dependent.

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Speaker 3: And so Reiner appeared in court back on January seventh

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Speaker 3: of this year, but has yet to enter a plea.

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Speaker 3: And I'm not sure if any of you have seen

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Speaker 3: the TMZ Fox Nation documentary on this case.

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Speaker 4: I have not seen that. No, have you told me

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Speaker 4: about it?

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Speaker 3: Yes, So there was a documentary and it reports that

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Speaker 3: it reports that Reiner is currently considered not competent to

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Speaker 3: stand trial, which is a legal status distinct from guilt

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Speaker 3: or innocence, which again we just were speaking about the

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Speaker 3: other day. It has no bearing on whether you are

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Speaker 3: guilty or innocent of the crime. It's just the fact

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Speaker 3: that in this moment in time, or perhaps for a

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Speaker 3: long time or perpetuity, you cannot participate legally in your

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Speaker 3: own defense and be a trial. There's no use of

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Speaker 3: a child because you can't your mind cannot comprehend it. So,

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Speaker 3: and Harvey Levin spoke about that very thing, and he's

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Speaker 3: quoted as saying he Nick just can't understand where he

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Speaker 3: is right now and said, I know that sounds crazy,

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Speaker 3: but that's where his head.

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Speaker 2: Is at.

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Speaker 3: And then if you guys remember for a short while,

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Speaker 3: Nick Reiner had had tourney Alan Jacks attorney, right, and

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Speaker 3: he's the attorney who defended Karen Reid, Harvey Weinstein. He

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Speaker 3: was involved with Kevin Spacey as well in court. He

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Speaker 3: withdrew from the case and in this moment, Nick Reiner

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Speaker 3: has a public defender. But again there's no plea yet

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Speaker 3: and we'll see how this competency plays out.

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Speaker 2: But it's just sad all together. It really is. Is

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Speaker 2: this is true crime tonight on iHeartRadio, where we're talking

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Speaker 2: true crime all the time. We were right in the

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Speaker 2: middle of talking about the competency of Nick Reiner. We're

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Speaker 2: gonna shift gears a little bit and get into some

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Speaker 2: Epstein files. Nonsense, Courtney, what's the update?

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Speaker 3: Okay, the update? And this pains my heart that Stephanie

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Speaker 3: is here in this moment.

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Speaker 4: I know you would love this.

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Speaker 3: But although we don't have the answer to wear are

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Speaker 3: the files?

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Speaker 2: That's true? That's true.

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Speaker 3: Hopefully that will wait until she's back from Sundance. So

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Speaker 3: just yesterday a judge ruled that representatives Row Conna and

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Speaker 3: Thomas Massey that they cannot intervene in Gilean Maxwell's criminal

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Speaker 3: case to force the DOJ to release the Epstein files faster,

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Speaker 3: and the judge further advised that the congress people they

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Speaker 3: have other courses of action. They can pursue a civil lawsuit,

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Speaker 3: they can use congressional oversight powers.

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Speaker 2: But honestly, I think it's a little bit misguided.

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Speaker 3: So basically, back in November of last year, the Epstein

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Speaker 3: Transparency Act was passed and it requires that the DOJ

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Speaker 3: released all investigative documents related to Epstein as well as

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Speaker 3: his co conspirator Gileen Maxwell, within a month.

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Speaker 2: That month is common gone.

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Speaker 3: It hasn't happened, and there's only been about twelve thousand

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Speaker 3: documents out of literally multiple millions, so very very.

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Speaker 2: So. Is this in relation to that motion they filed

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Speaker 2: on that Friday where they were the DOJ said that

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Speaker 2: they didn't want an oversight done on this and that

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Speaker 2: the court doesn't have authority to force them to release

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Speaker 2: the files. Is this in relation to that? I think I.

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Speaker 3: Understand, Well, this is specific to the judge who's overseeing

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Speaker 3: Gilain Maxwell's current case, which this seems very misguided to me.

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Speaker 2: So interesting.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, So Rocanna and Massey, they asked the court to

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Speaker 3: appoint an independent monitor to make sure the DOJ actually

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Speaker 3: released these files in time. Basically, they want a judge

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Speaker 3: to watch the DOJ and force them to release the documents.

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Speaker 2: So that's what you just mentioned, body documents faster, right,

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Speaker 2: And the judge is saying you can't make it faster. Yes,

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Speaker 2: And but.

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Speaker 3: What ro Conna and Thomas Massey, they reasoned that the

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Speaker 3: judge that's handling Gilaine Maxwell's case and her appeal, that

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Speaker 3: they already have the authority over matters involving her conviction

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Speaker 3: and evidence, maybe he could be the guy to supervise

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Speaker 3: the documents release. And that's to me just seems so misguided.

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Speaker 3: Did you understand what I'm saying? Did I say that clearly?

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Speaker 3: You know you said it right? You said it right?

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Speaker 3: I mean I believe is that right?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 4: You did say correct?

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Speaker 2: Gosh, okay, all right?

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Speaker 3: And so it's just it's a crazy ask to me

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Speaker 3: and the judge overseeing this active appeal on Gallien Maxwell's

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Speaker 3: behalf Judge Engelmeyer, he said that, hey, guess what, Glene

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Speaker 3: Maxwell's criminal case isn't the right legal quote vehicle to

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Speaker 3: force the DOJ to release documents. And also that that

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Speaker 3: particular judge doesn't have the power to enforce the Epstein

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Speaker 3: files law because it's about document disclosure, not the Glaene

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Speaker 3: Maxwell's sentence.

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Speaker 2: Or right right, because the motion was filed with that judge.

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Speaker 2: Uh you know that. So yeah, he's right, I mean,

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Speaker 2: the judge is right. What I mean, he's he's he's

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Speaker 2: overseeing Gallaine Maxwell's appeal. What authority does he have to

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Speaker 2: tell Congress to release the files right and do it faster?

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Speaker 2: And so I guess I kind of understand that, But

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Speaker 2: to me, it.

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Speaker 3: Just seemed it would be such an incredible conflict. I mean,

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Speaker 3: right now, Judge Engelmeyer like is and should be focused

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Speaker 3: on Glaine Maxwell's criminal case in the appeal versus it

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Speaker 3: just seems like it would get very muddy to then say, okay,

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Speaker 3: and let's hustle up and get these files released.

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Speaker 2: I totally agree. Did you guys see what happened with Clinton's.

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Speaker 4: I heard a little bit about it.

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Speaker 2: I heard about but yeah, dude, they've been held in

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Speaker 2: contempt after sticking you know, after skipping the depositions that

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Speaker 2: they were also about to do. So yeah, I mean,

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Speaker 2: this is like, this is happening, right, Like you know, things,

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Speaker 2: but things don't really seem to be happening at all, really, correct, right,

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Speaker 2: things don't really seem to be happening at all. It

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Speaker 2: seems to be just in limbo. I really don't think

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Speaker 2: we're ever going to see them, you guys, really, I

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Speaker 2: really don't. My mind has not changed, Yeah, I mean yeah,

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Speaker 2: I also I agree, there's just you know, all evidence.

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Speaker 3: Is to the contrary of any of this release whatsoever.

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Speaker 4: Right, But there's so much pressure from so many It's

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Speaker 4: like there's a constant spotlight and it's it's.

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Speaker 2: There is But there's also so many other things happening

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Speaker 2: in the country, right. We don't have to get into

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Speaker 2: details about that, but you know there are there's a

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Speaker 2: lot of things happening, and people are distracted, yeah, right

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Speaker 2: with you know, in their minds this has happened in

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Speaker 2: the past. We have things happening right now that are Yeah,

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Speaker 2: we need to focus. I feel like that's the mentality

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Speaker 2: of a lot of like outlets, and I totally understand why, right,

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Speaker 2: But I feel that's where we're getting a little bit

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Speaker 2: lost in the sauce a little.

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Speaker 3: Bit of this, and it's kind of the difference between

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Speaker 3: the urgent and the important.

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Speaker 2: Yes, Courtney, that's so well said, Yes, urgent versus important, right.

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Speaker 3: Right like this, the the these files are so important. However,

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Speaker 3: all of these other incredibly urgent matters, including our country

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Speaker 3: about to be swallowed by snow and ice, you know,

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Speaker 3: are happening now.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, and our thoughts are with everybody in the

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Speaker 2: path of the storm, please stay safe. Coming up next,

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Speaker 2: a California party mom accues of fueling teen sex and

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Speaker 2: alcohol abuse, and later Elizabeth Smart held captive, silenced and

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Speaker 2: controlled and why her story is resurfacing decades later. Keep

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Speaker 2: it right here at True Crime Tonight.

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Speaker 3: This is True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio, and we are

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Speaker 3: talking true crime all the time. Later in the show,

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Speaker 3: we are going to have a deep dive into the

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Speaker 3: infamous Elizabeth Smart kidnapping case.

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Speaker 2: We also have an update.

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Speaker 3: On what's going on with Renee Good, and we have

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Speaker 3: a plethora of your talkbacks.

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Speaker 2: We'd love to hear from you as always, give us

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Speaker 2: a call.

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Speaker 3: We're at eighty today three to one crime, or hit

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Speaker 3: us on the talkbacks on the iHeartRadio app. We're here

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Speaker 3: for any of your crime questions or honestly, if you're

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Speaker 3: in the path of this outrageous storm coming our way?

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Speaker 2: Like, what are your tips? How are you hunkering down?

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Speaker 2: Is it extra hot chocolate?

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Speaker 5: Is it? Like?

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Speaker 3: What's your tips for staying safe and cozy as we

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Speaker 3: hope you all do. But right now, there's a story

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Speaker 3: body has that I am very intrigued to hear.

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Speaker 2: More about this California party mom. It's it's wild. I

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Speaker 2: learned about this today, but it's been going on for

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Speaker 2: quite some time. So let me just tell you what's

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Speaker 2: going on. Okay, So her name is Shannon O'Connor and

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Speaker 2: they're calling her the los Gatto's party Mom, and she's

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Speaker 2: currently on trial started in December. She's currently on trial

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Speaker 2: in Santa Clara County, California, and she's facing testimony from

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Speaker 2: multiple teenage victims regarding these alcohol fueled parties she allegedly organized.

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Speaker 2: At the time, she was forty nine, and she's accused

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Speaker 2: of hosting these parties at her multi million dollar Los

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Speaker 2: Gatto's home during the twenty twenty through twenty twenty one

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Speaker 2: school year. Remember this was during COVID.

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Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, and every parent knows that was that

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Speaker 3: was just such a mayhem. It was time it absolutely,

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Speaker 3: I mean for everybody, not just everybody's but sure.

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Speaker 2: So she was arrested in Idaho in twenty twenty one,

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Speaker 2: so five years ago, and her trial just began, So

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Speaker 2: that's interesting. She now faces sixty three criminal clounts criminal

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Speaker 2: counts including felonies for child endangerment, aiding and a betting

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Speaker 2: sexual assault, and furnishing alcohol to miners. WHOA okay, so

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Speaker 2: these are like serious charges. She yeah, allegations again child endangerment,

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Speaker 2: furnishing alcohol to miners, aiding, and a betting sexual assault.

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Speaker 2: These parties allegedly began during the summer of twenty twenty.

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Speaker 2: So this is the height of COVID. Kids are locked up,

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Speaker 2: they got nowhere to go. Guess who' saving a party?

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Speaker 2: We're going to go over there, right like it's it's what.

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Speaker 2: So she rented this cottage in August of twenty twenty

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Speaker 2: for her son's birthday weekend, and she reported nine thousand dollars.

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Speaker 2: There was reported nine thousand dollars in damage done to

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Speaker 2: this cottage.

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Speaker 4: Gosh for a birthday.

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Speaker 2: Party nine thousand dollars. So teens involved during these parties

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Speaker 2: that she had, because there was more than one, they

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Speaker 2: were like fourteen and fifteen. These are kids. These are

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Speaker 2: freshmen in high school, if you want to put it,

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Speaker 2: you know, in those terms. These are little I mean,

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Speaker 2: these are kids. At least seventeeneen victims have testified so far. Yeah, applied.

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Speaker 2: She supplied alcohol, you know, beer, vodka, and fireball and

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Speaker 2: condoms to intoxicated teens. She facilitated these are This is

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Speaker 2: all allegedly, by the way, all right, she allegedly facilitated

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Speaker 2: sexual activity among miners, including her own son. She pressured

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Speaker 2: girls to recruit other girls to attend the parties.

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Speaker 3: Wow, do we know if she and excuse me, if

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Speaker 3: you're going to get to it. Was she making money?

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Speaker 3: Was she gratified to see and it's happening.

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Speaker 1: No.

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Speaker 2: In fact, apparently she was charging some of these items

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Speaker 2: to her company credit card. And I think she's she's

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Speaker 2: in debt for like one hundred and seventy thousand dollars

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Speaker 2: because of that. Well, yeah, it's insane. So she encouraged

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Speaker 2: teens to lie to their parents and conceal you know,

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Speaker 2: that they were going to parties at the house from

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Speaker 2: her husband, who has sensed divorced her. By the way,

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Speaker 2: you know, she's been in jail for five years already,

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Speaker 2: and when she got arrested in twenty twenty one, her

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Speaker 2: husband divorced her. I don't know if he didn't know

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Speaker 2: about it. There's not been a lot about him, by

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Speaker 2: the way, not a lot.

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Speaker 4: But Ava mentioned early on that he claims he didn't

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Speaker 4: know a great deal about it. He's also got a

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Speaker 4: little criminal, some things, some shadiness in his past, So

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Speaker 4: I take what he says with a grain of salt.

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Speaker 2: But right, I'll let you keep going. Most times she

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Speaker 2: was the only adult present, and other times she would

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Speaker 2: just leave, leaving the teens unsupervised, giving them everything they

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Speaker 2: needed to party, the home, the alcohol, the condoms and everything,

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Speaker 2: and then just leaving.

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Speaker 3: So this woman was basically setting up a Lord of

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Speaker 3: the Flies situation, exactly loosed up and lobably have some

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Speaker 3: sexy time you fourteen year olds, Yes, come have fun

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Speaker 3: at this party.

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Speaker 4: You know who I think of every time we I've

359
00:21:08,920 --> 00:21:11,040
Speaker 4: read this story. Do you remember the movie Mean Girls?

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Speaker 4: And there was some.

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Speaker 2: Mom oh and she would bring the tray of liquor

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Speaker 2: into the house for the burn back parties.

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Speaker 4: Yeah. Amy Poehler's Amy Pohler.

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Speaker 2: I love her.

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Speaker 4: She played that she was trying to be the cool

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Speaker 4: mom like and.

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Speaker 2: She had like the juicy sweatsuit on, you know.

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Speaker 4: Like yeah, make sure of this mom kind of being

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Speaker 4: like I come here, you can have fun, have a party.

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Speaker 2: But well yeah, but taha. Listen to what she's accused

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Speaker 2: of doing. Though. She is accused of pushing intoxicated teens

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Speaker 2: into bedrooms together.

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Speaker 4: Oh god.

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Speaker 2: A teen girl nearly drowned in a hot tub. There

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Speaker 2: were physical injuries, including a broken pinky and concussions, sexual

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Speaker 2: assaults during these parties, including one on New Year's Eve.

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Speaker 2: One teenage girl testified that I actually I don't know

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Speaker 2: if it was a girl. One age witness testify that

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Speaker 2: the parties were chaotic and that she communicated with many

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Speaker 2: of those teens on Snapchat, building trust and influencing them

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Speaker 2: to attend. So mom would reach out to these kids

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Speaker 2: on snapchat it and be like, come to the party.

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Speaker 3: This is so sick. This is reminding me. What was

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Speaker 3: the what was the documentary that we all watched together

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Speaker 3: that we got accessed over Oh.

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Speaker 2: Thank you, yes, Adam Booth right, yes.

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Speaker 3: And an unknown number if you guys remember that mother.

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Speaker 3: It was different circumstances, but seems like maybe a little

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Speaker 3: bit of a shared really skewed mentality of Yeah, this

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Speaker 3: mother was stalking and harassing her own daughter and her

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Speaker 3: high school aged daughter's boyfriend to sort of break them up,

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Speaker 3: and metal and all of the above, but right.

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Speaker 2: What corney to that point? Another miner testified that her

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00:23:03,040 --> 00:23:07,840
Speaker 2: social life was tightly controlled by this woman, and that

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Speaker 2: she was pressured about relationships she had with people outside

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Speaker 2: of the party sphere and her behavior with negative emotional

397
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Speaker 2: effects afterwards. So mom was this mother of the boy

398
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Speaker 2: was pressuring her son's friends to not only come to

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Speaker 2: the parties but also controlling their social life outside of

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Speaker 2: the parties.

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Speaker 4: Crazy, What would make her think that way? I mean,

402
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Speaker 4: it makes me wonder if either she missed out on

403
00:23:37,640 --> 00:23:40,320
Speaker 4: that in her childhood and is trying to relive it,

404
00:23:40,520 --> 00:23:44,000
Speaker 4: or I can't well, can you imagine?

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Speaker 3: I agree that I'm so curious about the psychology of

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00:23:47,560 --> 00:23:52,200
Speaker 3: this person and what would drive someone. It's so antithetical

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Speaker 3: to what they should do apply your own child, much

408
00:23:58,040 --> 00:24:04,200
Speaker 3: less other children with alcohol and encourage you know, dangerous behavior.

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Speaker 2: Correct. So she's pled not guilty to all these charges,

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Speaker 2: and you know, the trial started in December first, and

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Speaker 2: I was curious, like, you know, it's January twenty sixth,

412
00:24:16,520 --> 00:24:19,480
Speaker 2: where's the verdict on this? This has been almost two months.

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00:24:19,800 --> 00:24:22,359
Speaker 2: But you know, there's been a lot of a lot

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Speaker 2: of testimony. There's so many kids to testify, it's taking

415
00:24:26,680 --> 00:24:29,800
Speaker 2: a long time to get through with everyone. It's a messy,

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00:24:29,880 --> 00:24:34,560
Speaker 2: chaotic witness list and a lot of digital evidence to

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Speaker 2: be presented and whatnot. So we're going to be following

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Speaker 2: this one. But I also wanted to tell you about

419
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Speaker 2: her response and all that. So she's pled not guilty,

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Speaker 2: and during the trial, she spoke from jail saying she

421
00:24:46,840 --> 00:24:52,040
Speaker 2: never intended harm, that social restrictions during COVID led teens

422
00:24:52,119 --> 00:24:55,640
Speaker 2: to seek connection and express she expressed regret for what happened,

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Speaker 2: while also saying that, you know, legal concerns like the

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00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:03,000
Speaker 2: alleged violations of her rights, and she's requested a mistrial.

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Speaker 2: She requested a miss trial early on. Yeah, so if

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Speaker 2: can do we know on what basis? I don't actually don't,

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Speaker 2: I don't know, But you know this, this has been

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00:25:14,920 --> 00:25:18,520
Speaker 2: going on for so long. The prosecution has been presenting

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Speaker 2: all this testimony, and the defense and the prosecution actively

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Speaker 2: continue in court. But there's been no decision guilty or

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00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:28,840
Speaker 2: not guilty that has been announced because they haven't finished

432
00:25:28,840 --> 00:25:34,879
Speaker 2: presenting everything. But yeah, she's blaming basically COVID and you know,

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00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:41,840
Speaker 2: constant during pre trial. Before the trial began in January.

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Speaker 2: In on December first, there was a lot of pre

435
00:25:45,600 --> 00:25:49,320
Speaker 2: trial litigation, a lot of just you know, there were

436
00:25:49,320 --> 00:25:51,920
Speaker 2: a lot of emotions to dismiss some of the counts,

437
00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:55,000
Speaker 2: you know, obviously emotions just suppress all the evidence. There

438
00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:59,040
Speaker 2: were some bail challenges because she was held without bail

439
00:25:59,119 --> 00:26:03,080
Speaker 2: for years, and there were a lot of bail hearings

440
00:26:03,080 --> 00:26:06,520
Speaker 2: and whatnot. There were a lot of constitutional arguments, which

441
00:26:06,560 --> 00:26:07,880
Speaker 2: I kind of want to get into a little bit,

442
00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:14,920
Speaker 2: because those constitutional arguments were over delay in confinement because

443
00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:17,959
Speaker 2: again she's been in jail since twenty twenty one with

444
00:26:18,040 --> 00:26:23,440
Speaker 2: no trial. Right now, it's six years, right, yeah, well

445
00:26:23,480 --> 00:26:26,240
Speaker 2: five years, I'm sorry, five years without a trial. That's crazy.

446
00:26:26,440 --> 00:26:29,520
Speaker 3: I mean, that seems valid. Listen, if you're just joining us,

447
00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:32,119
Speaker 3: this is true crime tonight, and we are talking about

448
00:26:32,119 --> 00:26:38,320
Speaker 3: this really crazy case of the California party Mom aka

449
00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:42,120
Speaker 3: Los Gatto's party Mom, who is accused of throwing these

450
00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:48,520
Speaker 3: crazy alcohol sex parties for underage teens. So we'd love

451
00:26:48,560 --> 00:26:50,640
Speaker 3: to hear your thoughts at us up on the dog packs.

452
00:26:50,960 --> 00:26:54,480
Speaker 3: You know, you caught my interest so much a with

453
00:26:54,720 --> 00:26:57,399
Speaker 3: the story in general, but I was thinking, why was

454
00:26:57,400 --> 00:27:03,760
Speaker 3: she arrested in Idaho? And in turns so it seems

455
00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:07,720
Speaker 3: that this woman maybe didn't learn her lesson in California,

456
00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:13,880
Speaker 3: because Shannon O'Connor left California after law enforcement began sort

457
00:27:13,920 --> 00:27:18,480
Speaker 3: of poking around about these parties and was ultimately arrested

458
00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:23,920
Speaker 3: in Star, Idaho and ps when authorities got there, she

459
00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:27,600
Speaker 3: was found with twelve underage teenagers who slept over the

460
00:27:27,680 --> 00:27:33,200
Speaker 3: night before, allegedly so still doing the same, doing the same.

461
00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:36,960
Speaker 2: It's almost like a compulsory for her, right Like, right,

462
00:27:37,800 --> 00:27:39,960
Speaker 2: I don't know, I think, Tahi, I think you might

463
00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:42,679
Speaker 2: have hit the nail on the head with maybe she

464
00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:45,399
Speaker 2: couldn't be a party girl. But the thing that gets

465
00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:49,160
Speaker 2: me against that thought is that sometimes she wouldn't even

466
00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:52,280
Speaker 2: go to the parties, right, you know, she sometimes she

467
00:27:52,280 --> 00:27:55,080
Speaker 2: wouldn't even participate, she wasn't there. She would just buy

468
00:27:55,160 --> 00:27:57,920
Speaker 2: everything and then leave leave.

469
00:27:58,040 --> 00:28:00,960
Speaker 4: Yeah, or the other side I was thinking, But equally

470
00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:04,920
Speaker 4: as dumb and horrific is she's trying to create this

471
00:28:05,200 --> 00:28:07,119
Speaker 4: life for her son, or so she's trying to do

472
00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:09,680
Speaker 4: something so he has this fun social life. But none

473
00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:12,520
Speaker 4: of it is you know, all of these are ridiculous

474
00:28:12,560 --> 00:28:16,239
Speaker 4: reasons why and should not happen. But I guess I'm

475
00:28:16,240 --> 00:28:18,679
Speaker 4: trying to get into her head. But there's probably no

476
00:28:18,720 --> 00:28:22,120
Speaker 4: reason to do that because it makes no sense. Right.

477
00:28:22,280 --> 00:28:25,479
Speaker 2: I wrote a note about these fraud charges, and now

478
00:28:25,520 --> 00:28:30,280
Speaker 2: I can't find it in my notes, but there she has,

479
00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:35,600
Speaker 2: like also some fraud charges from her company credit card allegedly.

480
00:28:35,680 --> 00:28:38,400
Speaker 2: I don't I don't know one hundred percent all the details. Again,

481
00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:41,880
Speaker 2: this is a brand new case. But she apparently charged

482
00:28:41,920 --> 00:28:45,640
Speaker 2: a lot of these alcohol and you know, cottage rentals

483
00:28:45,640 --> 00:28:49,520
Speaker 2: and whatnot to her company credit card. Yeah. Wow, so

484
00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:50,680
Speaker 2: she wasn't even paying for him.

485
00:28:51,400 --> 00:28:51,720
Speaker 4: Wow.

486
00:28:52,320 --> 00:28:54,080
Speaker 2: I don't know what. I don't know what she was thinking.

487
00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:56,640
Speaker 2: I mean, I get listen, I get as a parent,

488
00:28:56,720 --> 00:28:58,920
Speaker 2: your you know, your kids are locked up during COVID,

489
00:28:58,960 --> 00:29:02,280
Speaker 2: You're worried about their them being social and whatnot. But

490
00:29:02,360 --> 00:29:05,960
Speaker 2: this seems like a little Yeah, and how did Dad

491
00:29:06,040 --> 00:29:06,800
Speaker 2: not know about it?

492
00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:09,080
Speaker 4: By the way, I find that hard to believe.

493
00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:12,800
Speaker 2: Dad not know about all these parties in their multi

494
00:29:12,800 --> 00:29:14,520
Speaker 2: million dollar loss autos home.

495
00:29:15,040 --> 00:29:18,240
Speaker 4: How sounds like, I mean, I'm wondering because early on

496
00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:20,280
Speaker 4: you went she went to the cabin. I'm wondering if

497
00:29:20,360 --> 00:29:23,680
Speaker 4: she did. She was always using spaces outside of her

498
00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:24,320
Speaker 4: own home.

499
00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:27,400
Speaker 2: Well, the reports are saying that that there were many

500
00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:29,400
Speaker 2: parties at their actual home as well.

501
00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:32,720
Speaker 4: Oh well in that case, then yeah, dad, she should.

502
00:29:32,920 --> 00:29:37,480
Speaker 3: Well one thing I'm seeing, and this was prosecutors called

503
00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:42,280
Speaker 3: someone called John Doe five right, my name's right. He

504
00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:46,040
Speaker 3: was on the stand, yes, and he testified that at

505
00:29:46,040 --> 00:29:48,240
Speaker 3: the time, he was either thirteen or fourteen years old

506
00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:51,720
Speaker 3: when he went to his first party at this mansion

507
00:29:51,760 --> 00:29:57,240
Speaker 3: in Los Gatos, and that the defendant had alcohol hidden

508
00:29:57,280 --> 00:30:00,560
Speaker 3: from her husband in the garage, according to his testimony.

509
00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:03,080
Speaker 3: So I don't know if it's as simple as a

510
00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:05,320
Speaker 3: four million dollar house is big enough that.

511
00:30:05,280 --> 00:30:10,240
Speaker 2: Maybe that's true, that dn't even in the garage. Maybe

512
00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:13,280
Speaker 2: that could very well be. But yeah, she and then

513
00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:21,840
Speaker 2: like she pushed drunk intoxicated kids in rooms together, like

514
00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:25,560
Speaker 2: like almost like she was playing a psychotic matchmaker, right,

515
00:30:26,120 --> 00:30:31,280
Speaker 2: like these drunk children, Yeah, that's and giving them condoms

516
00:30:31,280 --> 00:30:33,760
Speaker 2: Like how dare you you know what I mean? Like

517
00:30:34,480 --> 00:30:37,760
Speaker 2: what what do you think. I just don't understand why

518
00:30:37,880 --> 00:30:42,200
Speaker 2: she was pushing for this sexual contact. Okay, have party.

519
00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:44,480
Speaker 2: Like my mom bought me wine coolers when I was

520
00:30:44,520 --> 00:30:48,080
Speaker 2: like seen, you know, like once or twice. It wasn't

521
00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:50,160
Speaker 2: a big thing, though it wasn't all the time. But

522
00:30:50,200 --> 00:30:52,680
Speaker 2: she never like, you know, tried to set me up

523
00:30:52,680 --> 00:30:55,080
Speaker 2: with a neighborhood kid and threw me into a room

524
00:30:55,080 --> 00:30:55,960
Speaker 2: with some condoms.

525
00:30:56,200 --> 00:30:59,920
Speaker 3: It's weird, yes, and and it's and it's a so

526
00:31:00,360 --> 00:31:03,880
Speaker 3: I mean, if you believe what's being alleged. These girls

527
00:31:03,920 --> 00:31:06,560
Speaker 3: at the time, who are identified as Jane, does you

528
00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:09,720
Speaker 3: know they said that this party mom is accused of

529
00:31:09,880 --> 00:31:15,000
Speaker 3: orchestrating sexual assaults. Yea, and that they were traumatized by

530
00:31:15,040 --> 00:31:16,960
Speaker 3: what happened, and of course they would be.

531
00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:20,480
Speaker 2: I mean, I feel bad for both the females and

532
00:31:20,520 --> 00:31:22,880
Speaker 2: the male victims in this case because I feel like

533
00:31:22,920 --> 00:31:25,600
Speaker 2: they've both been assaulted at this point, like it's terrible.

534
00:31:25,920 --> 00:31:27,880
Speaker 3: We're going to keep following it though, I'm very for

535
00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:32,280
Speaker 3: so I am all in on this party mom. Well listen,

536
00:31:32,640 --> 00:31:37,440
Speaker 3: stick around. We have talkbacks to get to. Some of

537
00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:41,840
Speaker 3: them are pretty interesting. And I'm Courtney Armstrong, so lucky

538
00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:45,280
Speaker 3: to be here with body move in and producer Taha

539
00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:49,040
Speaker 3: and Sam and Adam in the control room, and our

540
00:31:49,080 --> 00:31:54,200
Speaker 3: beloved Stephanie Lydecker is out on her way to Sundance

541
00:31:54,480 --> 00:31:59,560
Speaker 3: because Katie Studio's Murder one oh one documentary is premiering.

542
00:31:59,680 --> 00:32:02,240
Speaker 3: Episode one of three is premiering at Sundance.

543
00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:05,160
Speaker 4: So that's amazing, very.

544
00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:08,320
Speaker 3: Exciting, And on the home turf. Later in the show,

545
00:32:08,360 --> 00:32:11,800
Speaker 3: we are going to get into Elizabeth Smart. Her story

546
00:32:11,880 --> 00:32:15,800
Speaker 3: is back in the headlines and questions are reopened about captivity,

547
00:32:15,960 --> 00:32:19,400
Speaker 3: survival and why a lot of us just can't let

548
00:32:19,560 --> 00:32:20,560
Speaker 3: go of this case.

549
00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:23,200
Speaker 2: But right now, let's go shows you to talk back.

550
00:32:24,280 --> 00:32:28,360
Speaker 6: Hey, my name is Jessica. I'm calling in from Los Angeles, California.

551
00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:30,920
Speaker 6: I'm calling regarding that you guys are talking about the

552
00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:34,360
Speaker 6: online dating apps, how dangerous it is for children. Well,

553
00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:36,600
Speaker 6: back in nineteen ninety nine, I went out to New

554
00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:39,800
Speaker 6: Jersey and met a guy. It wasn't online, it was

555
00:32:39,880 --> 00:32:43,120
Speaker 6: through a telephone dating service and I never met him,

556
00:32:43,360 --> 00:32:45,240
Speaker 6: never knew him, didn't tell my parents she was going.

557
00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:48,320
Speaker 6: I could have been killed. So dangerous. Take care, guys,

558
00:32:48,400 --> 00:32:49,200
Speaker 6: be safe, Bye bye.

559
00:32:49,480 --> 00:32:50,200
Speaker 5: Thank you for.

560
00:32:50,120 --> 00:32:53,560
Speaker 2: Those they were like dating hotlines. The hot lines, Yeah,

561
00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:58,280
Speaker 2: I remember those. Yeah, Oh my goodness, Well, thank god

562
00:32:58,360 --> 00:33:01,760
Speaker 2: you are okay, Yeah, thank you for the talking scoundrel.

563
00:33:02,280 --> 00:33:05,720
Speaker 2: I gotta be honest, I don't know how a lot of.

564
00:33:05,760 --> 00:33:11,400
Speaker 3: Us, me, particularly get through toddlerhood and teenage.

565
00:33:10,640 --> 00:33:10,840
Speaker 5: I know.

566
00:33:11,560 --> 00:33:15,160
Speaker 3: I mean I look back at the situations I put

567
00:33:15,200 --> 00:33:18,800
Speaker 3: myself in, and I mean they were so dangerous.

568
00:33:19,120 --> 00:33:23,040
Speaker 2: They were so dangerous. Courtney, aren't you so grateful, Like

569
00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:25,720
Speaker 2: I think we're all gen X right, we're about out

570
00:33:25,800 --> 00:33:28,719
Speaker 2: the same. Aren't you so grateful that we didn't have

571
00:33:28,800 --> 00:33:31,480
Speaker 2: social media when we were that age? Because I would

572
00:33:31,480 --> 00:33:34,479
Speaker 2: literally be arrested. I would be not if I wasn't arrested,

573
00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:37,200
Speaker 2: I would be in jail jail, you know, like, or

574
00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:40,240
Speaker 2: if I wasn't arrested, I wouldn't I would be I would.

575
00:33:40,640 --> 00:33:45,960
Speaker 3: I mean, I remember this came up many many years ago,

576
00:33:46,160 --> 00:33:50,120
Speaker 3: and it was something happened on social media, and I

577
00:33:50,200 --> 00:33:53,400
Speaker 3: said to my mom, I said, oh, thank god social

578
00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:56,360
Speaker 3: media didn't exist when I was in college. And she said,

579
00:33:56,640 --> 00:34:00,200
Speaker 3: there's not enough gods for you to thank.

580
00:34:03,400 --> 00:34:04,880
Speaker 2: Yes, I'm grateful.

581
00:34:05,080 --> 00:34:07,320
Speaker 4: I would have posted and done a lot of things

582
00:34:07,360 --> 00:34:10,000
Speaker 4: that I regret. To your point, probably couldn't get a job,

583
00:34:10,120 --> 00:34:16,160
Speaker 4: and it was but this this listener to her talk back, like,

584
00:34:16,520 --> 00:34:18,320
Speaker 4: you know, I've done the same. I'm like, I've stuck

585
00:34:18,360 --> 00:34:22,239
Speaker 4: out and you know, done things you probably shouldn't have. Yeah,

586
00:34:22,520 --> 00:34:24,760
Speaker 4: you know, but but have you ever seen those videos

587
00:34:24,760 --> 00:34:28,080
Speaker 4: where they the kids sneak out and then the parents

588
00:34:28,120 --> 00:34:30,960
Speaker 4: have set it up so that like they're waiting in

589
00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:33,640
Speaker 4: a van or whatever. Like I've seen these videos. They

590
00:34:33,760 --> 00:34:37,839
Speaker 4: kind of scare the kids straight by saying, I guess

591
00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:41,200
Speaker 4: they've connected with someone online. It's just such dating. Then

592
00:34:41,239 --> 00:34:43,040
Speaker 4: they get in the car they're like, I caught you.

593
00:34:43,239 --> 00:34:46,000
Speaker 4: The parents realize and it's to kind of frighten them.

594
00:34:47,640 --> 00:34:50,560
Speaker 2: You know. I know there's a case that we talked

595
00:34:50,560 --> 00:34:53,439
Speaker 2: about like this where they actually tied this little girl

596
00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:54,920
Speaker 2: up to the tree or something.

597
00:34:55,000 --> 00:34:57,120
Speaker 3: Well that I mean that was a criminal case.

598
00:34:57,400 --> 00:34:58,879
Speaker 2: And yes, the.

599
00:34:58,840 --> 00:35:01,440
Speaker 3: Girl was tied to a tree with zip dip tips

600
00:35:01,480 --> 00:35:07,160
Speaker 3: on her wrist and she was also had mental disability

601
00:35:07,800 --> 00:35:07,920
Speaker 3: of that.

602
00:35:08,200 --> 00:35:11,759
Speaker 2: I mean, that one's a horror show. I haven't heard

603
00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:13,759
Speaker 2: of these these videos, so I have to look it up.

604
00:35:14,160 --> 00:35:15,799
Speaker 4: Yeah, I've seen a couple of those, but it's it's

605
00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:18,120
Speaker 4: a way to try to scare the kids, yeah too,

606
00:35:18,560 --> 00:35:20,480
Speaker 4: you know, don't do this, you know it could have

607
00:35:20,520 --> 00:35:23,640
Speaker 4: been a killer. But anyway, that came to mind when

608
00:35:23,680 --> 00:35:24,800
Speaker 4: I heard her talk back.

609
00:35:25,440 --> 00:35:28,839
Speaker 3: A new thing that I so the whole sneaking out

610
00:35:28,880 --> 00:35:32,120
Speaker 3: that we're talking about, which you know some of us

611
00:35:32,160 --> 00:35:37,919
Speaker 3: may or may not have done. But now some kids,

612
00:35:37,960 --> 00:35:42,759
Speaker 3: and I'm talking you know, twelve and thirteen sneaking out

613
00:35:42,800 --> 00:35:47,840
Speaker 3: the back and ordering waymos to go places.

614
00:35:48,640 --> 00:35:50,680
Speaker 2: What howld it?

615
00:35:50,840 --> 00:35:52,520
Speaker 4: But awful if.

616
00:35:52,360 --> 00:35:55,959
Speaker 3: They're if listen, if you have access to account, which

617
00:35:55,960 --> 00:35:58,239
Speaker 3: people do, a lot of parents also are beginning to

618
00:35:58,360 --> 00:36:01,680
Speaker 3: use waymos because and that makes sense to me. I mean,

619
00:36:01,719 --> 00:36:03,279
Speaker 3: I don't know if I'm on the wrong side of this,

620
00:36:03,400 --> 00:36:06,320
Speaker 3: but it does make some sense because you're not putting

621
00:36:06,320 --> 00:36:10,719
Speaker 3: your underage child in a yeah you know something for

622
00:36:11,000 --> 00:36:13,799
Speaker 3: something or just you know, some human you don't know

623
00:36:13,840 --> 00:36:14,799
Speaker 3: and saying good luck.

624
00:36:15,480 --> 00:36:17,160
Speaker 2: So if you don't know what Waymos are their self

625
00:36:17,239 --> 00:36:21,040
Speaker 2: driving cars that we have out here, and right they're

626
00:36:21,080 --> 00:36:25,400
Speaker 2: empty cars, right like they drive themselves at were so cool.

627
00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:29,800
Speaker 4: They're very cool. The first time it was like clarifying,

628
00:36:30,160 --> 00:36:32,239
Speaker 4: but they actually have you been in one?

629
00:36:32,560 --> 00:36:32,799
Speaker 2: Yeah?

630
00:36:33,200 --> 00:36:35,880
Speaker 4: Okay? Because they drive kind of they drive better than

631
00:36:35,880 --> 00:36:36,120
Speaker 4: I do.

632
00:36:36,520 --> 00:36:41,799
Speaker 2: I know, they drive very great, but it's scary weird.

633
00:36:41,840 --> 00:36:44,040
Speaker 3: No, it's very odd, and that's right. It is in

634
00:36:44,239 --> 00:36:49,480
Speaker 3: only certain cities, I suppose. But anyway, let's do what

635
00:36:49,520 --> 00:36:50,080
Speaker 3: they're talking about.

636
00:36:50,239 --> 00:36:54,400
Speaker 5: Yea, hither this is Christine. I've been thinking about this

637
00:36:54,520 --> 00:36:58,520
Speaker 5: for about a week or so, the Tepe murderers in Minnesota,

638
00:36:58,600 --> 00:37:03,200
Speaker 5: because the ex husband was being sued and possibly did

639
00:37:03,239 --> 00:37:06,080
Speaker 5: not have any male practice insurance. Do you think that

640
00:37:06,200 --> 00:37:12,040
Speaker 5: he might have had an outstanding life insurance policy on Monique?

641
00:37:12,160 --> 00:37:15,399
Speaker 2: I mean, yeh, that's totally possible. You know, you could

642
00:37:15,400 --> 00:37:18,719
Speaker 2: take a life insurance policy out on anyone, right, so

643
00:37:18,840 --> 00:37:22,080
Speaker 2: maybe I mean that listen, that's that could definitely be

644
00:37:24,080 --> 00:37:28,880
Speaker 2: For those who don't know Michael McKee. He is accused

645
00:37:29,000 --> 00:37:33,799
Speaker 2: of shooting his ex wife and her husband, Monique and

646
00:37:33,920 --> 00:37:38,359
Speaker 2: Spencer Tepe, in Columbus, Ohio, on December thirtieth while their

647
00:37:38,480 --> 00:37:41,560
Speaker 2: children slept. Their children are I think one and four

648
00:37:41,680 --> 00:37:46,200
Speaker 2: years old, and he was arrested pretty recently and he

649
00:37:46,360 --> 00:37:50,000
Speaker 2: was just extradited to Columbus and I have an update

650
00:37:50,040 --> 00:37:53,880
Speaker 2: if anybody's interested, please it's not a big update, but

651
00:37:53,920 --> 00:37:56,440
Speaker 2: there is a little bit of an update. He has

652
00:37:56,520 --> 00:38:02,400
Speaker 2: hired a defense attorney. Her name is Diane Menishi and

653
00:38:02,440 --> 00:38:06,760
Speaker 2: she's a criminal defense lawyer. She's based in Columbus and

654
00:38:06,880 --> 00:38:09,120
Speaker 2: she's been retained by McKee, and she filed a notice

655
00:38:09,120 --> 00:38:12,279
Speaker 2: of appearance letting the judge know that she's, you know,

656
00:38:12,320 --> 00:38:16,760
Speaker 2: the representative for him. And she previously handled a couple

657
00:38:16,840 --> 00:38:23,280
Speaker 2: other high profile defense matters, including defending doctor William Hustle.

658
00:38:23,760 --> 00:38:25,839
Speaker 2: Do you guys know who who William Hustle is?

659
00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:26,840
Speaker 4: I don't know.

660
00:38:27,080 --> 00:38:30,640
Speaker 2: It's interesting. He's I'm kind of going offul a little

661
00:38:30,680 --> 00:38:33,360
Speaker 2: sidebar here, but please he is kind of like the

662
00:38:33,440 --> 00:38:41,320
Speaker 2: doctor Krovochian of Ohio. He was accused of giving fentanyl

663
00:38:41,719 --> 00:38:47,879
Speaker 2: to patients that were in you know, critical care or

664
00:38:47,920 --> 00:38:51,759
Speaker 2: you know, last living care, you know, like they were terminal. Sorry,

665
00:38:51,760 --> 00:38:54,120
Speaker 2: I couldn't think of that the word they were terminal.

666
00:38:54,800 --> 00:38:57,640
Speaker 2: And this happened back in twenty nineteen, and he was

667
00:38:57,719 --> 00:39:02,440
Speaker 2: charged with twenty five council murder okay by the Franklin

668
00:39:02,480 --> 00:39:07,280
Speaker 2: County prosecutors, accused of prescribing this, you know, these excessive

669
00:39:07,280 --> 00:39:11,239
Speaker 2: doses of fetanyl to critical ill patience, which you know

670
00:39:11,280 --> 00:39:16,240
Speaker 2: the authorities had alleged caused their deaths, right, a judge

671
00:39:16,280 --> 00:39:20,400
Speaker 2: prior to trial dismissed eleven of those, but in twenty

672
00:39:20,440 --> 00:39:25,000
Speaker 2: twenty two, after a lengthy trial, guess what they found.

673
00:39:26,560 --> 00:39:30,759
Speaker 2: What the verdict was? What was the verdict on the

674
00:39:30,800 --> 00:39:32,200
Speaker 2: remaining fourteen charges?

675
00:39:32,440 --> 00:39:35,440
Speaker 4: And I would assume not guilty because of the Wow.

676
00:39:35,600 --> 00:39:39,120
Speaker 2: So she's she's a good lawyer, right, That's the only

677
00:39:39,160 --> 00:39:41,120
Speaker 2: reason I told that story is I wanted to, like,

678
00:39:41,280 --> 00:39:44,120
Speaker 2: you know, impress upon everybody that she's a good lawyer.

679
00:39:44,840 --> 00:39:48,120
Speaker 2: She's a very good lawyer. And so you know, the

680
00:39:48,280 --> 00:39:52,120
Speaker 2: defense argued in that case that he was providing appropriate comfort,

681
00:39:52,239 --> 00:39:56,759
Speaker 2: end of life care and was never intending to kill them.

682
00:39:56,880 --> 00:40:00,520
Speaker 2: Sobate caused enough reasonable. Oh it's a yeah. I mean,

683
00:40:00,560 --> 00:40:02,920
Speaker 2: I know, listen, that's a very controversial time. I'm not

684
00:40:02,960 --> 00:40:05,040
Speaker 2: trying to get controversial.

685
00:40:04,480 --> 00:40:06,759
Speaker 4: No, no, no, I was going to say, I could see,

686
00:40:06,960 --> 00:40:08,880
Speaker 4: you know, the verdict in that one. She's got her

687
00:40:08,920 --> 00:40:11,960
Speaker 4: work cut out for this one, and I don't see

688
00:40:12,000 --> 00:40:13,479
Speaker 4: anything like that happening in this case.

689
00:40:13,520 --> 00:40:17,920
Speaker 2: But right, yeah, right, it went on. So he had

690
00:40:17,960 --> 00:40:20,719
Speaker 2: to give up his medical license. But he, uh, this

691
00:40:20,840 --> 00:40:25,319
Speaker 2: doctor Michael, I think it was hustle, doctor hustle. He

692
00:40:25,400 --> 00:40:28,520
Speaker 2: pursued a defamation case about all this, like, he sued

693
00:40:29,800 --> 00:40:33,960
Speaker 2: Mount Carmel Health System and its parent company, claiming that

694
00:40:34,000 --> 00:40:37,759
Speaker 2: their public comments during the trial damaged his reputation, but

695
00:40:37,840 --> 00:40:40,399
Speaker 2: a judge dis missed that case in twenty twenty five.

696
00:40:40,440 --> 00:40:43,040
Speaker 2: Means this is all very recent in twenty twenty five

697
00:40:44,680 --> 00:40:50,080
Speaker 2: and it went nowhere. So yeah, anyway, that's a less

698
00:40:50,360 --> 00:40:51,759
Speaker 2: But yeah, that's what's going on with that. But you know,

699
00:40:51,800 --> 00:40:54,520
Speaker 2: it is possible did he take out a life insurance

700
00:40:54,520 --> 00:40:57,920
Speaker 2: policy on his ex wife or did he have one

701
00:40:57,960 --> 00:41:00,879
Speaker 2: the whole time and never cancel it? Right? I think

702
00:41:01,080 --> 00:41:03,480
Speaker 2: that would be the only legal thing because I don't know.

703
00:41:03,520 --> 00:41:07,799
Speaker 3: I just I just double checked, because I think you said, oh,

704
00:41:07,840 --> 00:41:11,040
Speaker 3: you can take out an insurance policy on anyone, but

705
00:41:11,120 --> 00:41:13,960
Speaker 3: you need their written or that's.

706
00:41:13,760 --> 00:41:16,360
Speaker 2: What I meant, Yeah, yeah you need right, you can't

707
00:41:16,400 --> 00:41:18,440
Speaker 2: just I can't take one out on you, Courtney and

708
00:41:18,480 --> 00:41:20,240
Speaker 2: just have it in my safe you know, or whatever

709
00:41:20,280 --> 00:41:24,319
Speaker 2: that meant, like anybody you want as long as they agree, right.

710
00:41:24,400 --> 00:41:26,480
Speaker 2: So maybe when they were married, he had a life

711
00:41:26,520 --> 00:41:29,399
Speaker 2: insurance policy on her, you know, and maybe she had

712
00:41:29,440 --> 00:41:32,160
Speaker 2: one on him, and when they got divorced, she canceled

713
00:41:32,160 --> 00:41:35,160
Speaker 2: it and he didn't mm hmm. It's entirely possible.

714
00:41:35,239 --> 00:41:38,960
Speaker 4: It's possible, But this feels a little more rage related.

715
00:41:39,000 --> 00:41:41,400
Speaker 4: It feels like it doesn't feel like this was a

716
00:41:41,440 --> 00:41:44,280
Speaker 4: calculated like I'm going to get the money for this case.

717
00:41:44,400 --> 00:41:47,240
Speaker 4: Something about it feels like it just was immediate.

718
00:41:47,520 --> 00:41:49,480
Speaker 2: It could be, It could be, it could be one

719
00:41:49,520 --> 00:41:51,840
Speaker 2: of the things, like, you know, a life insurance policy

720
00:41:51,880 --> 00:41:55,000
Speaker 2: could be one of the reasons. You know, in addition

721
00:41:55,120 --> 00:41:59,080
Speaker 2: to that court mistake that happened, there was a clerical

722
00:41:59,160 --> 00:42:03,480
Speaker 2: error a couple of months prior to the death that

723
00:42:03,600 --> 00:42:06,759
Speaker 2: reopened their divorce case, and maybe that triggered him in

724
00:42:06,800 --> 00:42:10,600
Speaker 2: some way, or or maybe it made him remember, oh yeah,

725
00:42:10,640 --> 00:42:12,719
Speaker 2: I've got that life insurance policy. Who knows.

726
00:42:13,280 --> 00:42:17,040
Speaker 3: I hope so deeply that that, you know, simple clerical

727
00:42:17,080 --> 00:42:22,120
Speaker 3: mistake was not some kind of inciting incident to this man, not.

728
00:42:22,160 --> 00:42:23,680
Speaker 2: That that would be at fault.

729
00:42:24,480 --> 00:42:29,040
Speaker 3: However, if it's snowballed when he was in some emotional.

730
00:42:28,600 --> 00:42:32,120
Speaker 2: Place, that would just be such a sad mistake.

731
00:42:32,680 --> 00:42:35,960
Speaker 4: I know, it would be made mistake.

732
00:42:38,200 --> 00:42:40,920
Speaker 2: And if they're listening, it's not your fault.

733
00:42:41,440 --> 00:42:46,160
Speaker 3: Exactly, and just ps on the insurance front, yeah, don't

734
00:42:46,640 --> 00:42:50,439
Speaker 3: don't fraudulently go taken insurance policies out on people because

735
00:42:50,480 --> 00:42:52,880
Speaker 3: man who seem to have the best detectives. And I

736
00:42:52,920 --> 00:42:57,319
Speaker 3: had seen so many cases unravel because I think I

737
00:42:57,400 --> 00:42:58,959
Speaker 3: told you guys, I used to date a PI.

738
00:43:00,360 --> 00:43:07,360
Speaker 2: That's unsurprising but right. And their clients were mostly scientology

739
00:43:07,440 --> 00:43:10,680
Speaker 2: and insurance companies. H yeah, that makes sense.

740
00:43:10,800 --> 00:43:13,600
Speaker 4: Ye huh, Yeah, that's funny.

741
00:43:13,880 --> 00:43:16,880
Speaker 3: I imagining you and the p I both doing vigorous

742
00:43:16,920 --> 00:43:18,200
Speaker 3: background checks on each other.

743
00:43:19,719 --> 00:43:26,640
Speaker 2: I'm pretty sure that happened. Yeah, ages ago, Yeah, ages ago.

744
00:43:26,840 --> 00:43:29,560
Speaker 3: Back in the day when I was dating and I had,

745
00:43:29,640 --> 00:43:31,960
Speaker 3: you know, just as a producer to try and find people.

746
00:43:32,000 --> 00:43:35,399
Speaker 3: This is before the internet was real, you know what

747
00:43:35,440 --> 00:43:38,759
Speaker 3: it is, and we had Nexus, Lexis and everything else.

748
00:43:39,840 --> 00:43:44,480
Speaker 3: And I believe I knew about everyone's voting history and traffic.

749
00:43:51,320 --> 00:43:53,520
Speaker 2: Girl, I would never let's do another.

750
00:43:55,120 --> 00:44:00,120
Speaker 7: Ryan showed very granting. I was just talking about you

751
00:44:00,200 --> 00:44:03,279
Speaker 7: over unative safe spot. Totally agree. I have two kids

752
00:44:03,360 --> 00:44:05,399
Speaker 7: at four kids, so two of them are driving age

753
00:44:05,520 --> 00:44:07,279
Speaker 7: and I just tell them it's like, look, if you

754
00:44:07,320 --> 00:44:10,520
Speaker 7: get pulled over, you don't feel safe, put on your hazards,

755
00:44:10,640 --> 00:44:13,799
Speaker 7: slow down, have the speed or so that they the

756
00:44:13,880 --> 00:44:16,479
Speaker 7: cop knows that you're slowing down, Row your window down,

757
00:44:16,800 --> 00:44:19,880
Speaker 7: let your hand out motion them to follow you, so

758
00:44:20,000 --> 00:44:23,839
Speaker 7: that they know that you are acknowledging them that you're

759
00:44:23,880 --> 00:44:26,759
Speaker 7: slowing down, you're going to stop, you're getting to a

760
00:44:26,800 --> 00:44:29,640
Speaker 7: safe spot. You know, sometimes cops can get a little heated,

761
00:44:29,840 --> 00:44:31,400
Speaker 7: and the last thing you want them to do is

762
00:44:31,440 --> 00:44:34,399
Speaker 7: think you're trying to get away, or you're not acknowledging them,

763
00:44:34,520 --> 00:44:39,120
Speaker 7: or not supporting their enforcement proceedders or massaging their egos.

764
00:44:39,200 --> 00:44:42,560
Speaker 7: So you just acknowledge them, put on your hazards, row

765
00:44:42,600 --> 00:44:44,719
Speaker 7: your window down, get them away, let them know that

766
00:44:44,800 --> 00:44:46,760
Speaker 7: you see them, and then get to a safe spot.

767
00:44:47,000 --> 00:44:48,200
Speaker 7: Love you guys.

768
00:44:48,200 --> 00:44:50,839
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, that's a good idea. So it was a

769
00:44:50,880 --> 00:44:53,359
Speaker 2: little muffled, but from what he was saying was he's

770
00:44:53,360 --> 00:44:56,200
Speaker 2: instructed his kids to, you know, if they get if

771
00:44:56,239 --> 00:44:59,800
Speaker 2: they get flashing lights behind them, to kind of motion

772
00:45:00,440 --> 00:45:03,000
Speaker 2: to the flashing lights. You know, roll down your window,

773
00:45:03,080 --> 00:45:06,440
Speaker 2: slow down, put your hazards on, and let motion to

774
00:45:06,520 --> 00:45:10,839
Speaker 2: the law enforcement that you acknowledge that they're behind you,

775
00:45:11,000 --> 00:45:14,160
Speaker 2: and just you know there I wish so that they're

776
00:45:14,200 --> 00:45:16,279
Speaker 2: safe so they can go over to someone, over to

777
00:45:16,320 --> 00:45:20,080
Speaker 2: a safe area or a public area. I was told.

778
00:45:20,280 --> 00:45:22,120
Speaker 2: I was always told to go to the nearest substation,

779
00:45:22,840 --> 00:45:26,759
Speaker 2: like the you know, sheriff's office, police station, to pull

780
00:45:26,800 --> 00:45:29,040
Speaker 2: into one of those. But if you're like on the

781
00:45:29,080 --> 00:45:30,719
Speaker 2: freeway and you don't, I mean, I don't even know

782
00:45:30,719 --> 00:45:33,000
Speaker 2: where the nearest substation is. Sometimes I wouldn't know.

783
00:45:33,320 --> 00:45:35,320
Speaker 4: Or like I was driving in the South recently and

784
00:45:35,400 --> 00:45:38,080
Speaker 4: I'm like, if a police officer came behind me and

785
00:45:38,120 --> 00:45:41,080
Speaker 4: I was like, you know, questioning the light, it's a

786
00:45:41,120 --> 00:45:44,560
Speaker 4: long distance that I kind of race off until you know,

787
00:45:44,600 --> 00:45:49,000
Speaker 4: I'm pulled over. So, yeah, it is. That's what he

788
00:45:49,160 --> 00:45:51,400
Speaker 4: just explained makes sense, like acknowledging.

789
00:45:51,480 --> 00:45:55,560
Speaker 2: I wonder if the cops we should ask somebody like

790
00:45:55,680 --> 00:46:01,040
Speaker 2: what's the safest thing to tell a single woman perhaps

791
00:46:02,719 --> 00:46:06,319
Speaker 2: or you know, kids to do in that situation. I

792
00:46:06,360 --> 00:46:08,799
Speaker 2: know that they're probably gonna say, we'll pull over, but

793
00:46:08,800 --> 00:46:10,680
Speaker 2: that's sometimes not I'm not sure.

794
00:46:10,480 --> 00:46:13,480
Speaker 4: If they would say they're questioning.

795
00:46:13,320 --> 00:46:17,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, if you're questioning, they might they would have sympathy.

796
00:46:17,520 --> 00:46:19,719
Speaker 2: They would be not sympathy, but I think they would

797
00:46:19,719 --> 00:46:22,640
Speaker 2: be like, Okay, we understand that, you know. I think

798
00:46:22,640 --> 00:46:25,040
Speaker 2: they would be understandable of that, right, I.

799
00:46:24,960 --> 00:46:26,759
Speaker 4: Think so, And I think you're onto something. That's a

800
00:46:26,800 --> 00:46:29,640
Speaker 4: great idea of a guess we might like a law

801
00:46:29,719 --> 00:46:31,919
Speaker 4: enforcement with all of our questions.

802
00:46:31,719 --> 00:46:34,839
Speaker 3: Right or if someone's at your door and you're questioning,

803
00:46:35,080 --> 00:46:38,359
Speaker 3: you know, do you call the police station or what

804
00:46:38,400 --> 00:46:42,239
Speaker 3: can you do? Yes, but I think that would be

805
00:46:42,280 --> 00:46:44,279
Speaker 3: a great idea to have someone on to kind of

806
00:46:45,239 --> 00:46:48,480
Speaker 3: give us safety tips and answer questions from the source.

807
00:46:48,800 --> 00:46:52,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, do that, Thank you, producer d Well.

808
00:46:53,000 --> 00:46:56,120
Speaker 3: Listen, stick around because top of the hour we're going

809
00:46:56,200 --> 00:46:59,240
Speaker 3: to be talking about Rene Nicole Good. She was shot

810
00:46:59,280 --> 00:47:03,240
Speaker 3: four times by ice agent and a detention centered death

811
00:47:03,760 --> 00:47:05,520
Speaker 3: that has now been ruled a homicide.

812
00:47:05,560 --> 00:47:06,800
Speaker 2: That's two different cases.

813
00:47:07,960 --> 00:47:11,680
Speaker 3: One question between the both of them is accountability. Don't

814
00:47:11,680 --> 00:47:13,560
Speaker 3: forget Give us a call eight A eight three to

815
00:47:13,680 --> 00:47:21,480
Speaker 3: one crime True Crime Tonight.

816
00:47:26,440 --> 00:47:28,880
Speaker 2: This is True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio, where we're talking

817
00:47:28,920 --> 00:47:32,200
Speaker 2: true crime all the time. I'm body movin and I'm

818
00:47:32,200 --> 00:47:36,040
Speaker 2: here with True Crime producer Extraordinary Courtney Armstrong and True

819
00:47:36,040 --> 00:47:39,320
Speaker 2: Crime Tonight producer Taha Howes. Of course, Sam and Adam

820
00:47:39,440 --> 00:47:42,759
Speaker 2: are on the boards. Stephanie is out tonight heading to

821
00:47:42,800 --> 00:47:46,040
Speaker 2: Sundance in Utah. Oh my god, so exciting, and we

822
00:47:46,080 --> 00:47:48,080
Speaker 2: are so excited and proud of you. Stephanie. If you're

823
00:47:48,120 --> 00:47:50,640
Speaker 2: listening and we wish you nothing but the best, take

824
00:47:50,680 --> 00:47:52,480
Speaker 2: a lot of pictures of famous people and send them

825
00:47:52,480 --> 00:47:55,480
Speaker 2: to me. Don't forget. If you miss any part of

826
00:47:55,480 --> 00:47:58,279
Speaker 2: Tonight's show, you can always catch the podcast. We also

827
00:47:58,280 --> 00:47:59,520
Speaker 2: want to hear from you, so give us a call

828
00:47:59,560 --> 00:48:01,719
Speaker 2: at eight eight thirty one Crime or get with us

829
00:48:01,760 --> 00:48:04,960
Speaker 2: on our socials at True Crime Tonight's Show on TikTok

830
00:48:04,960 --> 00:48:09,040
Speaker 2: and Instagram and True Crime Tonight on Facebook. All right,

831
00:48:09,040 --> 00:48:11,239
Speaker 2: but now we're gonna get into a heavy topic. We're

832
00:48:11,239 --> 00:48:13,040
Speaker 2: gonna get into a really heavy topic. We're going to

833
00:48:13,080 --> 00:48:17,520
Speaker 2: be talking about Renee Good. Okay, Okay, I'm ready. So

834
00:48:17,960 --> 00:48:20,960
Speaker 2: the victim of Renee Good, I'm sorry. The victim here

835
00:48:21,160 --> 00:48:24,279
Speaker 2: is Renee Good and the family of the family of

836
00:48:24,280 --> 00:48:28,760
Speaker 2: Renee released an independent autopsy detailing how she was fatally

837
00:48:28,800 --> 00:48:32,799
Speaker 2: shot by an Ice agent on January seventh. Renee Good,

838
00:48:32,920 --> 00:48:34,840
Speaker 2: she was a thirty seven year old mother of three,

839
00:48:35,000 --> 00:48:38,920
Speaker 2: and she was killed in Minneapolis after an encounter with

840
00:48:39,120 --> 00:48:43,400
Speaker 2: Ice agent Jonathan Ross just days after a really large

841
00:48:43,440 --> 00:48:47,600
Speaker 2: scale ice raid and actually multiple ice raids in that city.

842
00:48:48,560 --> 00:48:51,440
Speaker 2: Renee is Good. Death. You know, since then, it's sparked

843
00:48:51,480 --> 00:48:55,080
Speaker 2: public outcry, there's been protests, everybody's aware of what's going on.

844
00:48:56,160 --> 00:48:59,680
Speaker 2: There's been a federal investigation with her family seeking full

845
00:48:59,719 --> 00:49:06,080
Speaker 2: trans farrency through legal and independent channels. Right, So they

846
00:49:06,360 --> 00:49:10,520
Speaker 2: did this, they did this autopsy, and what we found

847
00:49:10,719 --> 00:49:12,919
Speaker 2: she was shot four times, not three.

848
00:49:13,080 --> 00:49:14,600
Speaker 4: God, yeah, I thought it was three.

849
00:49:14,680 --> 00:49:17,200
Speaker 2: Oh, I thought it was three too, Is that? Yeah? Yeah,

850
00:49:17,200 --> 00:49:21,319
Speaker 2: that's surprising to me. It is surprising. Right. So she

851
00:49:21,520 --> 00:49:25,080
Speaker 2: was shot again January seventh in Minneapolis after dropping her

852
00:49:25,160 --> 00:49:29,200
Speaker 2: six year old child off at school, and she was

853
00:49:29,239 --> 00:49:34,399
Speaker 2: found inside her maroon Honda Pilot at nine two am

854
00:49:34,440 --> 00:49:39,280
Speaker 2: with four gunshot wounds. The shooter was ICE agent Jonathan Ross,

855
00:49:39,280 --> 00:49:43,960
Speaker 2: and he is a firearms instructor. He's also a member

856
00:49:44,480 --> 00:49:48,480
Speaker 2: of the FBI Joint Terrorism Task Force. He has not

857
00:49:48,560 --> 00:49:52,920
Speaker 2: been criminally charged. The Good family did commission a private

858
00:49:53,000 --> 00:49:59,120
Speaker 2: autopsy revealing these four gunshot wounds. One was fatal through

859
00:49:59,160 --> 00:50:04,000
Speaker 2: the left side of her head, one through the right

860
00:50:04,040 --> 00:50:07,200
Speaker 2: breast which was non lethal, and one to the left

861
00:50:07,360 --> 00:50:11,920
Speaker 2: forearm which gave her some soft tissue hemorrhage, and one

862
00:50:12,239 --> 00:50:16,360
Speaker 2: graze wound. Now I kind of wonder if maybe that

863
00:50:16,480 --> 00:50:19,800
Speaker 2: wound Could it have been could it have been done

864
00:50:20,000 --> 00:50:24,279
Speaker 2: from just oh, the same the same bullet, you know,

865
00:50:24,360 --> 00:50:27,719
Speaker 2: and maybe not four shots but three shots, but four wounds.

866
00:50:27,800 --> 00:50:29,960
Speaker 4: I'm not I'm not sure.

867
00:50:30,080 --> 00:50:35,279
Speaker 2: I mean, obviously I don't know. But yeah, So the

868
00:50:35,560 --> 00:50:37,799
Speaker 2: fatal wound, though, was to the left side of her head.

869
00:50:39,520 --> 00:50:43,000
Speaker 2: The Hennepin County Medical Examiner's Office has not yet released

870
00:50:43,040 --> 00:50:47,239
Speaker 2: its official autopsy results to the family or their legal team,

871
00:50:47,840 --> 00:50:52,319
Speaker 2: which is interesting to me. The Good family is represented

872
00:50:52,680 --> 00:50:56,600
Speaker 2: by Romanucci and Blandon, the Chicago based law firm that

873
00:50:56,719 --> 00:51:01,760
Speaker 2: secured the George Foyd families twenty seven million dollars settlement

874
00:51:01,800 --> 00:51:04,160
Speaker 2: in twenty twenty one, So it's the same or versus

875
00:51:04,160 --> 00:51:05,080
Speaker 2: George Floyd's family.

876
00:51:05,280 --> 00:51:05,480
Speaker 5: Yeah.

877
00:51:05,520 --> 00:51:07,720
Speaker 2: Can I back you up for one second?

878
00:51:07,920 --> 00:51:11,399
Speaker 3: Body, So, I want to make sure I'm understanding that

879
00:51:11,480 --> 00:51:15,640
Speaker 3: the Hennepin County Medical Examiner's Office hasn't released its official

880
00:51:15,640 --> 00:51:20,239
Speaker 3: autopsy results to the family, oh, or to the family's

881
00:51:20,360 --> 00:51:21,040
Speaker 3: legal team.

882
00:51:22,160 --> 00:51:23,320
Speaker 2: Is that correct? Correct?

883
00:51:23,360 --> 00:51:26,919
Speaker 3: But we don't We don't know if possibly they might

884
00:51:27,000 --> 00:51:32,120
Speaker 3: have released results to the state or the D's office.

885
00:51:32,200 --> 00:51:35,520
Speaker 2: We don't know about that. I don't know. Okay, Again,

886
00:51:36,920 --> 00:51:41,400
Speaker 2: the law enforcement experts, including former Salt Lake City Police

887
00:51:41,480 --> 00:51:45,600
Speaker 2: Chief Chris Burbank, criticized the ICE agent's action, saying that

888
00:51:46,360 --> 00:51:48,680
Speaker 2: you know, Renee Good did not appear to pose an

889
00:51:48,719 --> 00:51:52,879
Speaker 2: immediate threat. The shooting occurred days after ICE conducted large

890
00:51:52,880 --> 00:51:56,360
Speaker 2: scale rates in Minneapolis, and you know, tension is really high, right,

891
00:51:56,560 --> 00:52:00,319
Speaker 2: tension is really high. It's not been a good thing.

892
00:52:01,360 --> 00:52:04,280
Speaker 2: Renee Good's parents, her name, her mom's name is Donna,

893
00:52:04,320 --> 00:52:08,400
Speaker 2: and her dad's name is Tim. Donna and Tim Ganger,

894
00:52:08,640 --> 00:52:13,560
Speaker 2: and her four siblings rejected trains by the Trump administration

895
00:52:14,200 --> 00:52:17,640
Speaker 2: labeling her as a domestic terrorist, while her wife, Becca Good,

896
00:52:18,320 --> 00:52:22,279
Speaker 2: continues to raise their son and advocating for transparency. In

897
00:52:22,320 --> 00:52:25,960
Speaker 2: a statement, Becca Good, who is Renee's wife, said, I

898
00:52:26,000 --> 00:52:28,320
Speaker 2: am now loved to raise our son and continue teaching

899
00:52:28,360 --> 00:52:31,600
Speaker 2: him as Renee believed that there are people building a

900
00:52:31,600 --> 00:52:35,680
Speaker 2: better world for him. Federal officials, including the FBI, are

901
00:52:35,680 --> 00:52:40,799
Speaker 2: handling the investigation into the shooting, with Minnesota authorities lacking jurisdiction.

902
00:52:41,040 --> 00:52:43,759
Speaker 2: And again, even if they wanted to, they don't have

903
00:52:43,800 --> 00:52:46,399
Speaker 2: the van, they don't have the suspect, and they don't

904
00:52:46,440 --> 00:52:50,520
Speaker 2: have the weapon, right, So what's up?

905
00:52:50,960 --> 00:52:53,640
Speaker 3: Why don't they have that is that all in it's

906
00:52:53,680 --> 00:52:55,760
Speaker 3: all in the hands of the federal government.

907
00:52:57,160 --> 00:53:02,120
Speaker 2: Well, and the shooter left the scene, right, I see, right.

908
00:53:03,239 --> 00:53:07,000
Speaker 2: So you know, the state Attorney General, Keith Ellison has

909
00:53:07,040 --> 00:53:10,440
Speaker 2: called for a fair, transparent investigation. So we're going to

910
00:53:10,480 --> 00:53:13,719
Speaker 2: see what happens with this. I don't know, I'm not

911
00:53:13,719 --> 00:53:15,680
Speaker 2: sure what's going to happen, but we are definitely going

912
00:53:15,719 --> 00:53:17,319
Speaker 2: to be following it. So stay tuned for that. This

913
00:53:17,400 --> 00:53:20,680
Speaker 2: is true crime tonight on iHeartRadio. We are talking true

914
00:53:20,719 --> 00:53:23,680
Speaker 2: crime all the time. I'm body move it and I'm

915
00:53:23,680 --> 00:53:25,560
Speaker 2: here with Courtney and Taha Ta. What were you going

916
00:53:25,600 --> 00:53:26,000
Speaker 2: to say?

917
00:53:26,160 --> 00:53:27,440
Speaker 4: I was just going to ask, and I know you

918
00:53:27,480 --> 00:53:31,320
Speaker 4: both probably have done a lot of these studying these cases.

919
00:53:31,360 --> 00:53:35,400
Speaker 4: When someone does an independent autopsy, does that have to

920
00:53:35,440 --> 00:53:38,759
Speaker 4: happen after the county does it? Or is it do

921
00:53:38,840 --> 00:53:40,279
Speaker 4: they do it in conjunction? Like I don't know if

922
00:53:40,280 --> 00:53:43,600
Speaker 4: there is there a rule of funb of how it's ordered.

923
00:53:43,880 --> 00:53:46,080
Speaker 2: That's a really good question. It's something that we probably

924
00:53:46,080 --> 00:53:51,360
Speaker 2: should ask Joseph Morgan who But I believe it's after

925
00:53:51,600 --> 00:53:54,680
Speaker 2: and I don't believe they actually do a physical autopsy.

926
00:53:54,719 --> 00:53:59,360
Speaker 2: They read the autopsy reports. I see and verify findings

927
00:53:59,480 --> 00:54:02,239
Speaker 2: and you know, pictures and you know, things like that.

928
00:54:02,320 --> 00:54:05,319
Speaker 2: But I could be wrong about that, but I do

929
00:54:05,440 --> 00:54:09,360
Speaker 2: believe that that's correct, So we should definitely ask Josicah.

930
00:54:08,760 --> 00:54:10,400
Speaker 4: Okay, great, that was.

931
00:54:10,400 --> 00:54:13,399
Speaker 3: A really good question, just really top line. And I'm

932
00:54:13,440 --> 00:54:15,640
Speaker 3: all for asking Joseph because he will know all the

933
00:54:15,680 --> 00:54:18,360
Speaker 3: ins and outs. But it does seem like there are

934
00:54:18,400 --> 00:54:23,480
Speaker 3: several rules for independent autopsy and you know what's needed

935
00:54:23,560 --> 00:54:28,239
Speaker 3: is written request, written consent from the legal next of kin,

936
00:54:28,760 --> 00:54:32,759
Speaker 3: which makes sense, and of course they would need to

937
00:54:32,840 --> 00:54:38,640
Speaker 3: adhere to state laws and also be what's the word

938
00:54:38,680 --> 00:54:44,160
Speaker 3: I'm looking for, registered to work in that state as

939
00:54:44,239 --> 00:54:47,440
Speaker 3: well have the jurisdiction.

940
00:54:47,760 --> 00:54:50,759
Speaker 2: But and you know, I saw footage of the van.

941
00:54:51,880 --> 00:54:56,359
Speaker 2: It was on like a toe bed, you know those

942
00:54:56,400 --> 00:55:00,360
Speaker 2: trucks that aren't like tow trucks, but their beds happens

943
00:55:00,480 --> 00:55:02,719
Speaker 2: like a flat flab and then the car is on

944
00:55:02,760 --> 00:55:06,200
Speaker 2: top of them. Somebody was filming it like that. It

945
00:55:06,239 --> 00:55:11,400
Speaker 2: was on the freeway. It was not wrapped. Excuse me that,

946
00:55:12,560 --> 00:55:13,440
Speaker 2: I'm shockable.

947
00:55:13,520 --> 00:55:16,720
Speaker 4: Wouldn't they normally do a little bit more to protect

948
00:55:16,840 --> 00:55:17,560
Speaker 4: this as evidence?

949
00:55:17,920 --> 00:55:19,680
Speaker 2: So well, and that's you know, and that's one of

950
00:55:19,680 --> 00:55:23,000
Speaker 2: the issues with with this case and the federal government handing.

951
00:55:23,320 --> 00:55:24,880
Speaker 2: You know, that gives you kind of the optics that

952
00:55:24,880 --> 00:55:28,839
Speaker 2: they're not really doing an investigation at all. Wow, oh

953
00:55:28,880 --> 00:55:32,960
Speaker 2: my greatness, So optically it's very very bad. Yeah, I

954
00:55:33,000 --> 00:55:40,600
Speaker 2: mean that it's yeah, and it's well, they alleged initially

955
00:55:40,640 --> 00:55:44,359
Speaker 2: that it wasn't a crime scene, right right, right, right right.

956
00:55:45,239 --> 00:55:47,040
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's a tricky one.

957
00:55:47,160 --> 00:55:50,760
Speaker 2: It's going to be maybe it may be intentional, maybe

958
00:55:51,040 --> 00:55:54,480
Speaker 2: just laziness, maybe that they didn't believe it was a

959
00:55:54,480 --> 00:55:56,239
Speaker 2: crime and it would be investigated at all. I'm not

960
00:55:56,280 --> 00:55:59,360
Speaker 2: sure that cars should have been wrapped in the field

961
00:55:59,600 --> 00:56:03,000
Speaker 2: and you know, treated us a crime scene. Yeah, I

962
00:56:03,040 --> 00:56:05,360
Speaker 2: agreed it wasn't. And you know, of course the shooter

963
00:56:05,400 --> 00:56:06,680
Speaker 2: should not have been able to get in his car

964
00:56:06,680 --> 00:56:12,359
Speaker 2: and drive away. No never, but again, here we are,

965
00:56:12,560 --> 00:56:17,920
Speaker 2: you know, in twenty twenty six, and so yeah, yeah.

966
00:56:17,600 --> 00:56:19,600
Speaker 4: Well this one is definitely one I want us to

967
00:56:19,680 --> 00:56:22,600
Speaker 4: keep following. And of course, of course, Courtney, you have

968
00:56:22,680 --> 00:56:25,719
Speaker 4: another ICE update or I think there's something else that's

969
00:56:25,760 --> 00:56:26,160
Speaker 4: going on.

970
00:56:27,400 --> 00:56:29,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, I have, I have something else to talk about,

971
00:56:30,080 --> 00:56:31,600
Speaker 3: and none of us are going to be I don't

972
00:56:31,640 --> 00:56:35,680
Speaker 3: think more cheered up over this, but it is important

973
00:56:35,719 --> 00:56:36,319
Speaker 3: to talk about.

974
00:56:38,000 --> 00:56:43,600
Speaker 2: So a medical examiner's ruled that the January third.

975
00:56:43,440 --> 00:56:47,960
Speaker 3: Death of a Cuban d Tenney named Geraldo Lunas compos

976
00:56:48,200 --> 00:56:51,640
Speaker 3: He was detained at Camp East Montana, which is an

977
00:56:51,680 --> 00:56:59,279
Speaker 3: immigration detention facility, and the medical examiner ruled that his

978
00:56:59,520 --> 00:57:02,360
Speaker 3: death has been deemed a homicide.

979
00:57:02,400 --> 00:57:04,040
Speaker 2: The fifty five year old.

980
00:57:03,840 --> 00:57:07,759
Speaker 3: Campos had been in ice custody since the middle of

981
00:57:07,840 --> 00:57:12,200
Speaker 3: July of last year, so about six months, and then

982
00:57:13,160 --> 00:57:16,040
Speaker 3: a couple of months later he was transferred to this

983
00:57:16,120 --> 00:57:21,560
Speaker 3: Camp East Montana and was reportedly restrained by multiple staff

984
00:57:21,600 --> 00:57:27,040
Speaker 3: members after being disruptive, is what's being reported. And Campus's

985
00:57:27,080 --> 00:57:33,640
Speaker 3: death follows another recent death of two other detainees at

986
00:57:33,680 --> 00:57:38,320
Speaker 3: the same facility and their names are Francisco Gaspar Andres

987
00:57:38,400 --> 00:57:43,280
Speaker 3: this happened just in December twenty twenty five and Victor

988
00:57:43,480 --> 00:57:46,479
Speaker 3: Manuel Diaz and that happened just about a week ago

989
00:57:46,480 --> 00:57:51,600
Speaker 3: on January fourteenth. So all of this together is prompting

990
00:57:51,680 --> 00:57:58,479
Speaker 3: renewed calls for closure of the facility. So a little

991
00:57:58,480 --> 00:58:03,120
Speaker 3: bit more detail, yeah, bit more detail about the victim,

992
00:58:03,320 --> 00:58:07,960
Speaker 3: Heraldo Campos, So apparently he was in line for medication

993
00:58:08,320 --> 00:58:11,680
Speaker 3: and allegedly was being disruptive. He refused to return to

994
00:58:11,720 --> 00:58:17,720
Speaker 3: his dorm and was placed in segregation, and while being

995
00:58:17,760 --> 00:58:24,000
Speaker 3: physically restrained by multiple staff members, he became unresponsive and

996
00:58:24,360 --> 00:58:28,440
Speaker 3: EMS attempted resuscitation, but he was announced dead on the scene.

997
00:58:29,400 --> 00:58:30,600
Speaker 3: So it sounds like it.

998
00:58:30,560 --> 00:58:33,520
Speaker 2: Was suffocated him maybe, yeah, exactly.

999
00:58:35,240 --> 00:58:40,600
Speaker 3: And the autopsy findings what they showed were scattered superficial abrasions,

1000
00:58:41,320 --> 00:58:48,000
Speaker 3: hemorrhages in the neck muscles, yeah, hemorrhages, hemorrhages, yeah, yep,

1001
00:58:48,560 --> 00:58:50,959
Speaker 3: ar te kuil, hemorhages and the eyelids and the neck.

1002
00:58:51,760 --> 00:58:55,560
Speaker 3: And we worked with Joseph and other experts long enough

1003
00:58:55,600 --> 00:58:58,080
Speaker 3: that those all tend to be signs of strangulation.

1004
00:59:01,920 --> 00:59:04,080
Speaker 2: And I mean, when when you talk about somebody being

1005
00:59:04,160 --> 00:59:08,680
Speaker 2: restrained or you read about somebody being restrained and then dying,

1006
00:59:09,400 --> 00:59:12,840
Speaker 2: it often is, you know, the knee on the neck

1007
00:59:13,040 --> 00:59:15,520
Speaker 2: or you know something something. And I'm not saying that

1008
00:59:15,600 --> 00:59:17,720
Speaker 2: that's what that's what happened in this specific case, but

1009
00:59:17,840 --> 00:59:20,800
Speaker 2: it's something like that, some kind of choke hold, like

1010
00:59:20,920 --> 00:59:23,040
Speaker 2: the bar hold that we've been to the bar, right,

1011
00:59:24,040 --> 00:59:26,400
Speaker 2: because you you do have to if somebody is kind

1012
00:59:26,400 --> 00:59:28,680
Speaker 2: of wild, you kind of have to restrain them, right,

1013
00:59:29,280 --> 00:59:33,200
Speaker 2: and a lot of these you know, restraining positions, you

1014
00:59:33,360 --> 00:59:36,160
Speaker 2: have to get control of their body, and they often

1015
00:59:36,280 --> 00:59:40,480
Speaker 2: do that through controlling the neck, you know, like the

1016
00:59:41,080 --> 00:59:41,360
Speaker 2: you know the.

1017
00:59:43,560 --> 00:59:49,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, especially if multiple people are involved with restraining, which sounds.

1018
00:59:49,000 --> 00:59:51,840
Speaker 4: Like it was in this yeah, but it still it

1019
00:59:51,960 --> 00:59:53,920
Speaker 4: makes me go back to what we're talking about with

1020
00:59:54,080 --> 00:59:57,160
Speaker 4: the uvalde, like these people should be aren't they trained

1021
00:59:57,280 --> 01:00:01,479
Speaker 4: to handle some of these situations? I mean, yes, people

1022
01:00:01,520 --> 01:00:03,680
Speaker 4: get out of control, you tend to be restrained, but.

1023
01:00:05,000 --> 01:00:07,360
Speaker 2: There's got to be there's got to be like something

1024
01:00:07,680 --> 01:00:11,840
Speaker 2: humane and non lethal that they can do. And you know,

1025
01:00:12,280 --> 01:00:15,680
Speaker 2: detainees are getting like this, I don't know what that is.

1026
01:00:15,960 --> 01:00:19,960
Speaker 2: I mean just like you know, talking, but like tasing

1027
01:00:20,080 --> 01:00:23,560
Speaker 2: them maybe or something you know along those lines that

1028
01:00:23,640 --> 01:00:27,600
Speaker 2: I would think I would think would something that they

1029
01:00:27,640 --> 01:00:28,280
Speaker 2: should pursue.

1030
01:00:28,480 --> 01:00:32,120
Speaker 3: I mean it feels logical, but I don't know of

1031
01:00:32,320 --> 01:00:35,320
Speaker 3: multiple people, because things can go wrong, and.

1032
01:00:37,120 --> 01:00:39,600
Speaker 2: Not only so that they don't kill people, but you know,

1033
01:00:39,720 --> 01:00:42,640
Speaker 2: to protect them too, write you don't you don't want

1034
01:00:42,720 --> 01:00:45,840
Speaker 2: them your your employees and guards and whatnot. I mean,

1035
01:00:45,880 --> 01:00:49,880
Speaker 2: they do a hard job, right, you don't want them hurt, right,

1036
01:00:50,000 --> 01:00:52,840
Speaker 2: So anything that you can do that's non lethal to

1037
01:00:53,320 --> 01:00:57,520
Speaker 2: both parties. I think, listen, I don't have the answers, right.

1038
01:00:58,960 --> 01:01:03,320
Speaker 2: Feel I feel like there's got to be something available

1039
01:01:04,280 --> 01:01:08,960
Speaker 2: that they can do, even a dart, like something a

1040
01:01:09,040 --> 01:01:10,040
Speaker 2: tranquilizer dart.

1041
01:01:10,080 --> 01:01:12,480
Speaker 4: I don't know, something in your arm really Okay, Now.

1042
01:01:12,480 --> 01:01:14,640
Speaker 2: Maybe I'm watching too many movies, you guys, I don't know,

1043
01:01:14,720 --> 01:01:16,400
Speaker 2: but I feel like there's some sort of blow dart.

1044
01:01:17,280 --> 01:01:20,160
Speaker 3: Well, do you remember a while ago we were talking

1045
01:01:20,160 --> 01:01:23,240
Speaker 3: about the case of the man who went on a

1046
01:01:23,480 --> 01:01:28,040
Speaker 3: cruise and had I'm not remembering, but it was something

1047
01:01:28,120 --> 01:01:32,360
Speaker 3: like twenty drinks served to him and that's held down

1048
01:01:32,440 --> 01:01:36,920
Speaker 3: by multiple people, right and and yeah, you know, I.

1049
01:01:37,040 --> 01:01:39,919
Speaker 2: Just realized, and I feel terrible now my blow dart

1050
01:01:40,080 --> 01:01:42,480
Speaker 2: thing that I just said might mean that I mean

1051
01:01:42,520 --> 01:01:44,640
Speaker 2: that those are like livestock. That's not what I meant.

1052
01:01:44,680 --> 01:01:47,240
Speaker 2: Please don't take them, I said. I just mean like

1053
01:01:47,320 --> 01:01:49,800
Speaker 2: a tranquilizer gun dart, something.

1054
01:01:49,800 --> 01:01:51,800
Speaker 4: Like something that you can be As soon as the

1055
01:01:51,840 --> 01:01:52,360
Speaker 4: words were.

1056
01:01:52,240 --> 01:01:54,360
Speaker 2: Coming out of my mouth, I was like, oh, body,

1057
01:01:54,440 --> 01:01:55,560
Speaker 2: what are you what are you saying?

1058
01:01:55,760 --> 01:01:56,800
Speaker 4: You know?

1059
01:01:59,080 --> 01:02:03,800
Speaker 2: Put him back into my mouth? Right, But I mean,

1060
01:02:03,840 --> 01:02:05,440
Speaker 2: I think we can all agree that.

1061
01:02:06,400 --> 01:02:09,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, it'd be ideal if something could happen

1062
01:02:09,120 --> 01:02:12,960
Speaker 3: to alleviate these cases that seem to be happening. You know,

1063
01:02:13,360 --> 01:02:15,280
Speaker 3: I don't know if they're happening more frequently or we're

1064
01:02:15,320 --> 01:02:20,280
Speaker 3: just hearing about them more. But you know, this case

1065
01:02:20,360 --> 01:02:23,400
Speaker 3: is one that we're probably going to continue to follow

1066
01:02:23,840 --> 01:02:27,880
Speaker 3: because the Washington Post, for example, revealed that the Department

1067
01:02:27,920 --> 01:02:31,920
Speaker 3: of Homeland Security is now attempting to deport two men

1068
01:02:32,000 --> 01:02:33,080
Speaker 3: who witness.

1069
01:02:34,200 --> 01:02:35,720
Speaker 2: Heraldo campus Is death.

1070
01:02:36,400 --> 01:02:39,320
Speaker 3: And that's a move that some people are calling evidence

1071
01:02:39,360 --> 01:02:40,560
Speaker 3: of a potential cover up.

1072
01:02:40,640 --> 01:02:43,440
Speaker 2: So there's a lot more to get into. Oh my goodness.

1073
01:02:43,880 --> 01:02:44,080
Speaker 7: Wow.

1074
01:02:44,720 --> 01:02:48,320
Speaker 2: Well, this is True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. When we

1075
01:02:48,400 --> 01:02:51,439
Speaker 2: come back, we have the Elizabeth Marth case, a case

1076
01:02:51,560 --> 01:02:53,680
Speaker 2: many thought was finished, and it's back in the spotlight,

1077
01:02:53,800 --> 01:02:57,240
Speaker 2: forcing a new forcing a new reckoning with what she

1078
01:02:57,360 --> 01:02:59,400
Speaker 2: survived and why it still matters. Now keep it right

1079
01:02:59,440 --> 01:03:00,360
Speaker 2: here True Tonight.

1080
01:03:09,880 --> 01:03:13,280
Speaker 3: Welcome back to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio, where we

1081
01:03:13,400 --> 01:03:15,240
Speaker 3: are talking true crime all the time.

1082
01:03:16,200 --> 01:03:17,480
Speaker 2: I'm Courtney Armstrong.

1083
01:03:17,920 --> 01:03:20,760
Speaker 3: I'm the luckiest girl in the world to be here

1084
01:03:20,880 --> 01:03:24,600
Speaker 3: with crime analysts, my buddy body move in and producer

1085
01:03:24,680 --> 01:03:28,320
Speaker 3: Taha and Sam and Adam in the control room and listen,

1086
01:03:28,400 --> 01:03:30,760
Speaker 3: don't forget. If you've missed any part of the show,

1087
01:03:30,840 --> 01:03:34,840
Speaker 3: you can always catch us on the podcast. And as always,

1088
01:03:34,880 --> 01:03:36,520
Speaker 3: we want to hear from you. Give us a call

1089
01:03:36,680 --> 01:03:39,600
Speaker 3: eight to day three on crime or get with us

1090
01:03:39,640 --> 01:03:40,280
Speaker 3: on socials.

1091
01:03:40,360 --> 01:03:42,160
Speaker 2: We read all the messages.

1092
01:03:43,240 --> 01:03:45,960
Speaker 3: We are at True Crime Tonight show on TikTok and

1093
01:03:46,040 --> 01:03:51,880
Speaker 3: Instagram and True Crime Tonight on Facebook. So bodyboo, let's

1094
01:03:51,920 --> 01:03:57,920
Speaker 3: get into it. There's some news in Elizabeth's Smart case. Yeah, well,

1095
01:03:58,480 --> 01:04:01,800
Speaker 3: an update, right, an update, an, I guess right. So

1096
01:04:02,000 --> 01:04:06,000
Speaker 3: Elizabeth Smart, she's smart. She's back at the spotlight her

1097
01:04:06,760 --> 01:04:10,560
Speaker 3: release of her Netflix documentary it's called Kidnapped Elizabeth Smart,

1098
01:04:11,480 --> 01:04:17,360
Speaker 3: very aptly titled. In June of twenty twenty two, fourteen

1099
01:04:17,440 --> 01:04:19,919
Speaker 3: year old Elizabeth Smart she was kidnapped from her Salt

1100
01:04:20,000 --> 01:04:23,720
Speaker 3: Lake City home by a guy named Brian David Mitchell

1101
01:04:23,840 --> 01:04:27,680
Speaker 3: and his wife, Wanda Barzi, and they held her captive

1102
01:04:27,800 --> 01:04:31,440
Speaker 3: for nine months, during which she endured daily sexual assaults,

1103
01:04:32,000 --> 01:04:32,920
Speaker 3: physical abuse.

1104
01:04:33,280 --> 01:04:36,360
Speaker 2: She was tortured, I mean sexually. It was just terrible.

1105
01:04:37,240 --> 01:04:39,840
Speaker 2: She was rescued about a year, well nine months or

1106
01:04:39,880 --> 01:04:43,240
Speaker 2: so later, on March twelfth of two thousand and three,

1107
01:04:43,880 --> 01:04:46,480
Speaker 2: and she has since become a prominent child safety and

1108
01:04:46,560 --> 01:04:51,160
Speaker 2: sexual assault advocate and a lot of pea. She's appeared

1109
01:04:51,200 --> 01:04:54,760
Speaker 2: on many documentaries, many shows talking about her experience, and

1110
01:04:54,840 --> 01:04:57,400
Speaker 2: now she has her own documentary that just premiered on Netflix.

1111
01:04:58,320 --> 01:05:02,280
Speaker 3: I mean, do you guys from member when Elizabeth Smart

1112
01:05:02,440 --> 01:05:07,520
Speaker 3: first went missing and what the public's reaction for this,

1113
01:05:08,520 --> 01:05:10,440
Speaker 3: you know, beautiful young girl.

1114
01:05:10,400 --> 01:05:13,240
Speaker 2: Remember what the hell? I remember the billboards everywhere and

1115
01:05:13,360 --> 01:05:16,480
Speaker 2: like America's Most Wanted and things like that, but I

1116
01:05:16,520 --> 01:05:19,040
Speaker 2: don't remember what the public was saying about it.

1117
01:05:19,400 --> 01:05:23,640
Speaker 4: Yeah, same, I remember her image. It's not one of these.

1118
01:05:23,760 --> 01:05:26,120
Speaker 4: I remember her image where I was or what was

1119
01:05:26,200 --> 01:05:29,440
Speaker 4: happening with the public, and that name stood out. But

1120
01:05:30,520 --> 01:05:33,600
Speaker 4: I do recall it being one of the bigger miss

1121
01:05:33,800 --> 01:05:37,560
Speaker 4: wild cases that kind of stuck with a lot of people.

1122
01:05:38,480 --> 01:05:38,680
Speaker 2: Well.

1123
01:05:38,840 --> 01:05:43,080
Speaker 3: It also the circumstances also sort of hit on every

1124
01:05:43,480 --> 01:05:49,600
Speaker 3: primal fear anyone has. The abduction happened at knife at

1125
01:05:49,680 --> 01:05:53,480
Speaker 3: knife point from her bedroom, so she was asleep with

1126
01:05:53,640 --> 01:05:56,600
Speaker 3: her sister in the bedroom. This was in Salt Lake City.

1127
01:05:57,600 --> 01:06:01,560
Speaker 3: And the pair you mentioned body Brian David Mitchell and

1128
01:06:01,920 --> 01:06:06,640
Speaker 3: Wanda Barzi, who you know, not to get to clinical,

1129
01:06:06,760 --> 01:06:08,800
Speaker 3: but what a bunch of sickos.

1130
01:06:10,160 --> 01:06:15,360
Speaker 2: Weren't they like religious kind of fanatics about something? Yeah,

1131
01:06:15,360 --> 01:06:19,440
Speaker 2: I remember that. I remember they were like kind of kookie.

1132
01:06:20,040 --> 01:06:26,000
Speaker 3: I guess, yes, once again getting scientific, but yes, so

1133
01:06:26,640 --> 01:06:29,480
Speaker 3: Brian David Mitchell, he claimed he was actually commanded by

1134
01:06:29,680 --> 01:06:34,720
Speaker 3: God to kidnap Elizabeth Smart and others. And I mean

1135
01:06:35,040 --> 01:06:38,440
Speaker 3: he forced, he forced Elizabeth to wear a veil and

1136
01:06:38,560 --> 01:06:40,640
Speaker 3: participate in rituals, right.

1137
01:06:41,760 --> 01:06:45,240
Speaker 2: I remember that when she was rescued that she was

1138
01:06:45,360 --> 01:06:48,320
Speaker 2: kind of in disguise, but it worked because she kind

1139
01:06:48,360 --> 01:06:51,560
Speaker 2: of like appeared to be like a child of the

1140
01:06:51,640 --> 01:06:54,080
Speaker 2: two because she was dressed in like veils and like

1141
01:06:54,160 --> 01:06:59,160
Speaker 2: they were right right, right, so they looked kind of unsubpleted.

1142
01:06:59,400 --> 01:07:01,400
Speaker 2: I mean that would look very suspicious to me.

1143
01:07:03,200 --> 01:07:06,160
Speaker 3: Yes, right, but you're right, they look like they belonged

1144
01:07:06,240 --> 01:07:10,760
Speaker 3: to They belonged to captains and Elizabeth. And so again

1145
01:07:10,840 --> 01:07:14,360
Speaker 3: she's forced to wear this veil and participate in these rituals,

1146
01:07:14,960 --> 01:07:19,840
Speaker 3: all the while being threatened with death and starved, humiliated,

1147
01:07:21,600 --> 01:07:23,480
Speaker 3: and as you said, sexually assaulted.

1148
01:07:24,160 --> 01:07:28,640
Speaker 2: Right. So when she was rescued, she was in Sandy, Utah,

1149
01:07:28,760 --> 01:07:31,920
Speaker 2: which is about eighteen miles from her own home, so

1150
01:07:32,040 --> 01:07:35,520
Speaker 2: she was only twenty minutes away. So close, but so far. Right,

1151
01:07:36,600 --> 01:07:40,320
Speaker 2: she was identified by two civilians who recognized Brian David

1152
01:07:40,360 --> 01:07:45,360
Speaker 2: Mitchell and Wanda Barzi from America's Most Wanted. And the

1153
01:07:45,560 --> 01:07:51,680
Speaker 2: reason they knew who David Mitchell and Wanda Barzi were

1154
01:07:51,800 --> 01:07:56,480
Speaker 2: was because her younger sister, Mary Catherine was in the

1155
01:07:56,560 --> 01:08:01,560
Speaker 2: bedroom and was basically the witness to theduction. And she

1156
01:08:01,720 --> 01:08:04,640
Speaker 2: said in the documentary, which is out on Netflix right now,

1157
01:08:04,800 --> 01:08:08,000
Speaker 2: she says, that night, Elizabeth and I said our prayers

1158
01:08:08,040 --> 01:08:11,240
Speaker 2: together and we went to sleep. The next thing, I remember,

1159
01:08:11,440 --> 01:08:14,040
Speaker 2: there was a man in our bedroom telling Elizabeth if

1160
01:08:14,080 --> 01:08:18,280
Speaker 2: she screamed, he would kill her. And you know this,

1161
01:08:18,760 --> 01:08:22,120
Speaker 2: this poor sister, she pretended to be asleep. I mean,

1162
01:08:22,160 --> 01:08:23,200
Speaker 2: she must have been terrified.

1163
01:08:23,560 --> 01:08:27,240
Speaker 4: I cannot imagine. That's horrible. But as a result, I

1164
01:08:27,320 --> 01:08:30,760
Speaker 4: guess of her seeing this person, I guess she gave

1165
01:08:30,880 --> 01:08:35,519
Speaker 4: a description to the authorities. And maybe that's how Thank

1166
01:08:35,560 --> 01:08:37,200
Speaker 4: God for that show, America's Most Wanted.

1167
01:08:38,360 --> 01:08:41,320
Speaker 2: Absolutely, they just rebooted it.

1168
01:08:41,640 --> 01:08:42,960
Speaker 4: Maybe I didn't know that.

1169
01:08:43,400 --> 01:08:47,360
Speaker 2: No, Yeah, they just rebooted it. Yeah, they just rebooted it.

1170
01:08:48,120 --> 01:08:51,360
Speaker 2: It's it's pretty good and they focus on like missing children,

1171
01:08:51,680 --> 01:08:54,840
Speaker 2: and it's pretty good. Yeah, I enjoy it. Yeah, I

1172
01:08:54,920 --> 01:08:58,520
Speaker 2: really like that show. So they, by the way, America's

1173
01:08:58,600 --> 01:08:59,160
Speaker 2: Most Wanted.

1174
01:08:59,320 --> 01:09:02,400
Speaker 3: And when I I knew that we'd be talking about

1175
01:09:02,479 --> 01:09:04,720
Speaker 3: this case, I actually almost wore I have an America's

1176
01:09:04,800 --> 01:09:07,519
Speaker 3: Most Wanted hat that I was given to me by

1177
01:09:08,080 --> 01:09:10,800
Speaker 3: someone who was a producer on the show for a time.

1178
01:09:11,600 --> 01:09:16,120
Speaker 3: And it's just it's so wonderful because they've you know,

1179
01:09:16,280 --> 01:09:21,280
Speaker 3: helped capture over a thousand fugitives and locate many missing children.

1180
01:09:22,040 --> 01:09:27,040
Speaker 2: It was a long run. It was such a popular show, right,

1181
01:09:27,160 --> 01:09:30,479
Speaker 2: I mean, this was like a popular popular show back to.

1182
01:09:30,520 --> 01:09:32,560
Speaker 4: The dead at the time. That almost it kind of

1183
01:09:32,680 --> 01:09:35,840
Speaker 4: you know, foreshadowed documentaries because they were all such class

1184
01:09:36,200 --> 01:09:38,320
Speaker 4: and it was fascinating to hear, but you knew you

1185
01:09:38,400 --> 01:09:40,800
Speaker 4: were helping. Yeah, that was so great.

1186
01:09:41,280 --> 01:09:43,800
Speaker 2: Yeah. They were like little mini case presentations, right.

1187
01:09:44,160 --> 01:09:49,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, And there were dozens of missing children found

1188
01:09:49,720 --> 01:09:52,920
Speaker 3: on top of those more than a thousand fugitives, and.

1189
01:09:53,120 --> 01:09:56,760
Speaker 2: You guys, they helped capture fifteen.

1190
01:09:56,360 --> 01:10:01,240
Speaker 3: People from the FBI's ten most wanted lists about earlier

1191
01:10:01,320 --> 01:10:01,679
Speaker 3: this week.

1192
01:10:03,120 --> 01:10:05,439
Speaker 2: That's pretty good. So I'm glad they're back. I hope.

1193
01:10:05,560 --> 01:10:08,320
Speaker 2: I wish them nothing but success, you know, and they

1194
01:10:08,360 --> 01:10:12,559
Speaker 2: find a lot of people. So after she was rescued,

1195
01:10:13,520 --> 01:10:16,880
Speaker 2: David Brian David Mitchell, he was found guilty of kidnapping

1196
01:10:17,520 --> 01:10:20,759
Speaker 2: and transporting a minor across state lines for sexual activity,

1197
01:10:21,200 --> 01:10:24,080
Speaker 2: and he was sentenced in May of twenty eleven to

1198
01:10:24,320 --> 01:10:28,759
Speaker 2: two life terms. His wife, Wanda Barzie, she pled guilty

1199
01:10:29,320 --> 01:10:32,320
Speaker 2: in November of two thousand and nine and was sentenced

1200
01:10:32,360 --> 01:10:36,200
Speaker 2: to fifteen years, credited for time served, and she was

1201
01:10:36,320 --> 01:10:40,080
Speaker 2: released in twenty eighteen. Now, as you can imagine, she's

1202
01:10:40,160 --> 01:10:42,960
Speaker 2: a you know, convicted of you know, she's basically a

1203
01:10:43,040 --> 01:10:44,799
Speaker 2: sex offender and she has to go on the registry.

1204
01:10:44,920 --> 01:10:49,280
Speaker 2: Right while, in April of twenty twenty five, Wanda Barzie

1205
01:10:49,360 --> 01:10:52,439
Speaker 2: she was arrested in Salt Lake City for violating those

1206
01:10:52,520 --> 01:10:57,640
Speaker 2: restrictions by entering public park. She was barred from this

1207
01:10:57,960 --> 01:11:01,160
Speaker 2: prompted like this, you know, a public state from Elizabeth

1208
01:11:01,200 --> 01:11:04,160
Speaker 2: Smart highlighting ongoing safety concerns.

1209
01:11:04,280 --> 01:11:04,439
Speaker 4: Right.

1210
01:11:05,280 --> 01:11:08,640
Speaker 2: So, you know, Elizabeth has stayed in the media like

1211
01:11:08,800 --> 01:11:12,720
Speaker 2: steady throughout I mean, remarkable woman, and I mean I

1212
01:11:12,760 --> 01:11:15,759
Speaker 2: think by the way Elizabeth Smart is in the reboot,

1213
01:11:16,000 --> 01:11:20,599
Speaker 2: she hosts it. Oh yes, she's one of Yeah, she's

1214
01:11:20,800 --> 01:11:23,560
Speaker 2: she's well, I think they bring her in occasionally, I

1215
01:11:23,680 --> 01:11:25,560
Speaker 2: have to, I have to double check. But she was

1216
01:11:25,640 --> 01:11:29,040
Speaker 2: on the very first episode of the reboot. Yeah, and

1217
01:11:29,200 --> 01:11:32,439
Speaker 2: she was hosting with the m Okay. Yeah, so she

1218
01:11:32,680 --> 01:11:35,200
Speaker 2: I mean, she's she stayed steady in the media and

1219
01:11:35,400 --> 01:11:39,400
Speaker 2: but she's always an advocate, you know, for the missing.

1220
01:11:39,760 --> 01:11:42,560
Speaker 2: And I also kind of think she's kind of like

1221
01:11:42,640 --> 01:11:45,160
Speaker 2: a beacon of hope for parents of missing children, right

1222
01:11:46,000 --> 01:11:48,639
Speaker 2: because she was found, I mean albeit nine months later,

1223
01:11:48,880 --> 01:11:52,400
Speaker 2: and you know, had a horrible nine months, but she survived.

1224
01:11:52,520 --> 01:11:55,719
Speaker 2: And not only did she survive, but she persevered, right.

1225
01:11:56,040 --> 01:12:00,600
Speaker 3: And is it is it absolutely wonderful human being. I

1226
01:12:00,680 --> 01:12:04,600
Speaker 3: had the real honor and pleasure to have, you know,

1227
01:12:04,720 --> 01:12:08,720
Speaker 3: get to know her a little bit. Kat's Studios. Yeah,

1228
01:12:08,960 --> 01:12:15,200
Speaker 3: it was first with uh, Steph and Kat Studios. We

1229
01:12:15,320 --> 01:12:24,920
Speaker 3: did Masked Dancer actually and it was a mass singer companion.

1230
01:12:26,000 --> 01:12:31,080
Speaker 3: Oh yes, so we did a podcast for that show.

1231
01:12:31,760 --> 01:12:35,560
Speaker 3: But then I had multiple conversations and she just is

1232
01:12:36,520 --> 01:12:39,880
Speaker 3: so poised and when you said beacon of hope, absolutely

1233
01:12:40,000 --> 01:12:43,720
Speaker 3: like we should all endeavor to be right that.

1234
01:12:44,560 --> 01:12:47,479
Speaker 2: Justin and she's addressing these public concerns because you know,

1235
01:12:47,560 --> 01:12:50,599
Speaker 2: here Wanda Barzi's out here being a convicted sex offender.

1236
01:12:51,200 --> 01:12:53,320
Speaker 2: You know, going to parks where children are playing, you

1237
01:12:53,400 --> 01:12:56,479
Speaker 2: can't be around. You can't do that, right, that's a

1238
01:12:56,520 --> 01:12:59,720
Speaker 2: public safety concern. So you know, poor Elizabeth had a

1239
01:13:00,080 --> 01:13:03,679
Speaker 2: rest this because you know, Wanta got arrested in April

1240
01:13:03,720 --> 01:13:09,000
Speaker 2: of twenty twenty five after she was rescued and you know,

1241
01:13:09,080 --> 01:13:12,839
Speaker 2: the trial was over whatnot. Elizabeth she went to BYU

1242
01:13:13,080 --> 01:13:16,400
Speaker 2: Bringham Young University, and you know that's a very prominent

1243
01:13:16,720 --> 01:13:19,360
Speaker 2: college in the state of Utah, actually nationwide. It's a

1244
01:13:19,439 --> 01:13:23,360
Speaker 2: very good college. And so she went to BYU. She

1245
01:13:23,439 --> 01:13:27,720
Speaker 2: got a bachelor's of Music and heart performance. And you know,

1246
01:13:27,840 --> 01:13:30,720
Speaker 2: as part of her religion, she is a Latter Day

1247
01:13:30,960 --> 01:13:32,439
Speaker 2: you know, she's a member of the Jesus Christ of

1248
01:13:32,520 --> 01:13:36,600
Speaker 2: Later day Saints, otherwise referred to as Mormon in the

1249
01:13:36,640 --> 01:13:38,800
Speaker 2: short term, right, that's what we call them, you know,

1250
01:13:39,000 --> 01:13:41,479
Speaker 2: into to shorten that a little bit. As part of

1251
01:13:41,560 --> 01:13:44,439
Speaker 2: her being a Mormon, she went on her mission and

1252
01:13:44,600 --> 01:13:46,600
Speaker 2: lucky for her, in two thousand and nine, she was

1253
01:13:46,600 --> 01:13:48,200
Speaker 2: there for two years. Lucky for her, she got to

1254
01:13:48,240 --> 01:13:50,960
Speaker 2: go to Paris, like of all places to go for

1255
01:13:51,040 --> 01:13:54,040
Speaker 2: your mission. Oh my goodness, right right, like she's won

1256
01:13:54,160 --> 01:13:55,760
Speaker 2: the lottery there, and.

1257
01:13:55,920 --> 01:13:59,720
Speaker 3: How laudable too to give back and go on to

1258
01:14:00,400 --> 01:14:04,880
Speaker 3: I mean, I yeah, I hope I could be as

1259
01:14:04,960 --> 01:14:07,720
Speaker 3: productive a human. I feel like after experiencing what she did,

1260
01:14:08,040 --> 01:14:10,760
Speaker 3: I would just want to throw a pity party for

1261
01:14:10,840 --> 01:14:14,000
Speaker 3: all eternity for myself, and she has done the opposite

1262
01:14:14,040 --> 01:14:16,080
Speaker 3: and has just given I got to know.

1263
01:14:16,920 --> 01:14:19,360
Speaker 2: I got to know a couple of missionaries a couple

1264
01:14:19,400 --> 01:14:23,439
Speaker 2: of years ago, and they work so hard, you know.

1265
01:14:23,680 --> 01:14:27,200
Speaker 2: They the guys, you know, they ride the bikes and

1266
01:14:27,240 --> 01:14:28,760
Speaker 2: they have the white shirts on with them, you know,

1267
01:14:28,800 --> 01:14:30,120
Speaker 2: and they knock on your door and they want to

1268
01:14:30,120 --> 01:14:32,599
Speaker 2: talk to you about you know whatever. But they were

1269
01:14:32,720 --> 01:14:35,439
Speaker 2: They work so hard and if you need help, like

1270
01:14:36,479 --> 01:14:41,160
Speaker 2: painting your house or like long, they'll help you. Really, yeah,

1271
01:14:41,439 --> 01:14:45,080
Speaker 2: that's part of what they do. And you know, while

1272
01:14:45,200 --> 01:14:47,040
Speaker 2: they do these things. The reason I got to know

1273
01:14:47,120 --> 01:14:49,680
Speaker 2: them is because I was unloading a truck moving and

1274
01:14:49,760 --> 01:14:51,240
Speaker 2: they helped me, and I got to know them, and

1275
01:14:51,280 --> 01:14:54,600
Speaker 2: I offered them dinner and whatnot. Anyway, they rely on

1276
01:14:55,680 --> 01:15:00,400
Speaker 2: that kindness from people to survive while they're on their mission.

1277
01:15:00,880 --> 01:15:02,960
Speaker 4: Wait, you mean like the meals that you gave them,

1278
01:15:03,120 --> 01:15:04,920
Speaker 4: Like that's how they're surviving.

1279
01:15:05,080 --> 01:15:10,000
Speaker 2: Like, well, certainly, yeah, they well they they they hope

1280
01:15:10,000 --> 01:15:12,200
Speaker 2: to get invited to your home and you know, you

1281
01:15:12,360 --> 01:15:15,679
Speaker 2: have snacks and meals and you talk to them. But anyway,

1282
01:15:15,920 --> 01:15:19,840
Speaker 2: they're they're wonderful people. They're very kind. And what I

1283
01:15:19,920 --> 01:15:22,439
Speaker 2: mean by saying all this is not you know, is

1284
01:15:22,520 --> 01:15:25,719
Speaker 2: not to promote Mormonism whatever, but because I'm not Mormon,

1285
01:15:25,840 --> 01:15:28,680
Speaker 2: but you know, saying that, that's a lot of work

1286
01:15:28,720 --> 01:15:32,799
Speaker 2: for Elizabeth after coming off of this you know, horrible

1287
01:15:34,080 --> 01:15:40,160
Speaker 2: you know, thing that she experienced, and to still serve, yeah,

1288
01:15:40,280 --> 01:15:43,840
Speaker 2: is my point, Like I see, incredible. Yeah, it's just

1289
01:15:43,880 --> 01:15:46,840
Speaker 2: an incredible, incredible thing for her to have done. She

1290
01:15:46,960 --> 01:15:52,080
Speaker 2: got married in twenty twelve to Matthew Gilmour. The couple

1291
01:15:52,280 --> 01:15:56,360
Speaker 2: have three children now, Chloe, James, and Olivia, and they

1292
01:15:56,479 --> 01:16:01,240
Speaker 2: reside happily in Utah. She founded the Elizabeth's Smart Foundation

1293
01:16:01,360 --> 01:16:06,599
Speaker 2: in twenty eleven and that promotes child sexual abuse prevention,

1294
01:16:07,439 --> 01:16:11,960
Speaker 2: survivor empowerment, self defense education which is so smart. She

1295
01:16:12,080 --> 01:16:16,599
Speaker 2: called this smart defense. I love it. Love the name,

1296
01:16:17,320 --> 01:16:21,480
Speaker 2: and awareness campaigns for missing persons and human trafficking survivors

1297
01:16:22,600 --> 01:16:24,800
Speaker 2: so God loves her for that, and.

1298
01:16:25,160 --> 01:16:27,839
Speaker 3: What a time for that to be brought to attention

1299
01:16:28,000 --> 01:16:30,880
Speaker 3: and to have health and advocacy because.

1300
01:16:31,439 --> 01:16:33,840
Speaker 2: More than yes, sir, you know, if you want, if

1301
01:16:33,840 --> 01:16:36,240
Speaker 2: you want to, you know, look up the Elizabeth Smart Foundation.

1302
01:16:36,320 --> 01:16:39,360
Speaker 2: I encourage you to do so, especially if you, you know,

1303
01:16:39,439 --> 01:16:42,080
Speaker 2: maybe have a missing child or you've been a victim yourself.

1304
01:16:42,280 --> 01:16:45,040
Speaker 2: Maybe there's some tools and resources for you there. So

1305
01:16:45,200 --> 01:16:48,400
Speaker 2: check that out for sure. She gave a speech in

1306
01:16:48,479 --> 01:16:54,120
Speaker 2: twenty thirteen during this is So Sad during a human

1307
01:16:54,200 --> 01:16:58,519
Speaker 2: trafficking conference at Johns Hopkins University, and here's what she said,

1308
01:16:58,640 --> 01:17:02,720
Speaker 2: and it's it's so sad. She highlighted this need to

1309
01:17:02,880 --> 01:17:07,759
Speaker 2: change these cultural myths that suggest girls lose their value

1310
01:17:08,360 --> 01:17:12,880
Speaker 2: after sexual contact contact. And here's what she said. I thought,

1311
01:17:13,479 --> 01:17:16,759
Speaker 2: my gosh, I'm that chewed up piece of gum. Nobody

1312
01:17:16,880 --> 01:17:20,080
Speaker 2: rechoose a piece of gum. You throw it away. And

1313
01:17:20,200 --> 01:17:21,960
Speaker 2: that's how easy it is to feel like you no

1314
01:17:22,040 --> 01:17:24,719
Speaker 2: longer have worth. You know, you no longer have value.

1315
01:17:26,040 --> 01:17:28,800
Speaker 2: Why would it even be worth screaming out? Why would

1316
01:17:28,840 --> 01:17:31,639
Speaker 2: it even make a difference if you're rescued, your life

1317
01:17:31,720 --> 01:17:35,800
Speaker 2: has no value? And I think it's so interesting because

1318
01:17:35,800 --> 01:17:37,640
Speaker 2: it is true. There's a lot of myths, you know,

1319
01:17:37,800 --> 01:17:41,320
Speaker 2: like Okay, you had sex when you were seventeen, so

1320
01:17:41,439 --> 01:17:44,760
Speaker 2: you're useless now, you know. And I thought that was

1321
01:17:44,840 --> 01:17:48,640
Speaker 2: really just powerful statement that she made. She concluded by

1322
01:17:48,760 --> 01:17:51,280
Speaker 2: urging her audience to teach children the importance of self

1323
01:17:51,360 --> 01:17:56,000
Speaker 2: worth and to help them avoid defining themselves primarily as victims.

1324
01:17:56,439 --> 01:17:59,120
Speaker 4: Good for her, Yeah, I think she has done so much.

1325
01:17:59,200 --> 01:18:02,160
Speaker 4: She has done a lot, and I think I would

1326
01:18:02,240 --> 01:18:04,759
Speaker 4: just be you know, I would be myself.

1327
01:18:08,560 --> 01:18:10,840
Speaker 2: Stop it in my head? What are you doing in

1328
01:18:10,960 --> 01:18:11,800
Speaker 2: my head? Get out?

1329
01:18:12,560 --> 01:18:15,439
Speaker 4: But it's true, I can't see myself. I don't know.

1330
01:18:15,439 --> 01:18:17,560
Speaker 4: If I would have I would be that person. So

1331
01:18:17,680 --> 01:18:20,080
Speaker 4: I really look up to the people that do this

1332
01:18:20,360 --> 01:18:23,760
Speaker 4: because it's it's helping others and we should all be

1333
01:18:23,840 --> 01:18:24,040
Speaker 4: doing it.

1334
01:18:24,080 --> 01:18:26,280
Speaker 2: And I think that's what she wants her foundation to do,

1335
01:18:26,479 --> 01:18:28,240
Speaker 2: is to help others. So please check it out, the

1336
01:18:28,320 --> 01:18:29,520
Speaker 2: Elizabeth Smart.

1337
01:18:29,320 --> 01:18:35,400
Speaker 3: Foundation, absolutely and also watch the doc on Netflix and

1338
01:18:36,000 --> 01:18:39,360
Speaker 3: listen stick around as well. We have more to dig into.

1339
01:18:40,040 --> 01:18:42,519
Speaker 3: You guys have been flooding our lines with talkbacks. We're

1340
01:18:42,600 --> 01:18:45,479
Speaker 3: so excited to get to dig into them. Keep it here,

1341
01:18:45,600 --> 01:18:49,000
Speaker 3: True Crime Tonight where we are talking true crime all time.

1342
01:19:00,920 --> 01:19:04,360
Speaker 3: Welcome back to true Crime tonight on iHeartRadio. We are

1343
01:19:04,479 --> 01:19:09,360
Speaker 3: talking true crime all the time. I'm Courtney Armstrong. I'm

1344
01:19:09,439 --> 01:19:12,639
Speaker 3: here with Body Movin and producer Dah Sam and Adam

1345
01:19:12,680 --> 01:19:16,680
Speaker 3: in the control room, and our Stephanie Leijaker is on

1346
01:19:16,880 --> 01:19:22,360
Speaker 3: her way to Sundance because Katie Studios Murder one oh one,

1347
01:19:23,320 --> 01:19:26,920
Speaker 3: episode one of three of the documentary Murder one oh

1348
01:19:27,000 --> 01:19:27,959
Speaker 3: one is premiering.

1349
01:19:28,120 --> 01:19:29,280
Speaker 2: Are you guys so excited?

1350
01:19:29,320 --> 01:19:30,799
Speaker 4: I know, it's so excited.

1351
01:19:31,000 --> 01:19:32,960
Speaker 2: And you know what's so funny is Stephanie's like, I'm

1352
01:19:32,960 --> 01:19:35,280
Speaker 2: going to sundance like no big deal. And I'm like,

1353
01:19:35,880 --> 01:19:41,760
Speaker 2: what are you kidding me? That's incredible? I know, I know,

1354
01:19:42,600 --> 01:19:44,519
Speaker 2: And I'm like, what are you gonna wear? Tell me

1355
01:19:44,640 --> 01:19:46,240
Speaker 2: everything post lots of pictures.

1356
01:19:46,240 --> 01:19:48,360
Speaker 4: It was funny, you too were talking outfits, like you

1357
01:19:48,360 --> 01:19:49,680
Speaker 4: should have these kind of boots on.

1358
01:19:49,960 --> 01:19:53,000
Speaker 2: I'm like, wear some cute boots, like a cute dress,

1359
01:19:53,200 --> 01:19:57,000
Speaker 2: like because sundance is kind of casual, right, like you

1360
01:19:57,080 --> 01:19:59,719
Speaker 2: know they don't they don't wear gowns and like rolls,

1361
01:19:59,760 --> 01:20:04,040
Speaker 2: and but it's still it's upscale casual. So I told

1362
01:20:04,080 --> 01:20:06,800
Speaker 2: her to dress kind of like with some cute caff

1363
01:20:06,880 --> 01:20:10,680
Speaker 2: foods and like a maybe like a maxi dress of

1364
01:20:10,760 --> 01:20:13,200
Speaker 2: some kind with like a cute bolero or something like

1365
01:20:13,400 --> 01:20:16,760
Speaker 2: jacket or some cute chunky ear rings. Should we get

1366
01:20:16,760 --> 01:20:16,960
Speaker 2: to go.

1367
01:20:17,160 --> 01:20:20,280
Speaker 3: She'll we had a last I mean, honestly, it's not

1368
01:20:20,439 --> 01:20:22,840
Speaker 3: hard for Stephanie to dress. She looks gorgeous and whatever

1369
01:20:23,000 --> 01:20:27,800
Speaker 3: she wears. So yeah, if I didn't love her, i'd

1370
01:20:27,800 --> 01:20:31,320
Speaker 3: hate her exactly right, right right. But speaking of you know,

1371
01:20:31,880 --> 01:20:34,840
Speaker 3: the doc murder one on one and others is interesting.

1372
01:20:35,000 --> 01:20:40,040
Speaker 3: We're kind of looking into how much doc content has increased.

1373
01:20:40,600 --> 01:20:43,880
Speaker 3: And I'm sure in no small part too don't have

1374
01:20:44,000 --> 01:20:47,360
Speaker 3: with cats body. Oh yeah, you would probably be correct.

1375
01:20:47,400 --> 01:20:50,679
Speaker 2: I've heard that a lot actually from people who would

1376
01:20:50,720 --> 01:20:52,920
Speaker 2: know not right, but from people who we know.

1377
01:20:53,160 --> 01:20:53,280
Speaker 6: Right.

1378
01:20:53,880 --> 01:20:59,480
Speaker 3: Yeah. So you know, as an example, documentary viewing per subscriber,

1379
01:20:59,640 --> 01:21:03,680
Speaker 3: and this goes across not just one platform but networks

1380
01:21:03,720 --> 01:21:07,880
Speaker 3: and Disney Plus and Prime Video and Max or HBO

1381
01:21:08,000 --> 01:21:09,960
Speaker 3: or HBO Max or I don't know what day it is,

1382
01:21:10,120 --> 01:21:15,120
Speaker 3: I think it's now. Yeah, good grief, but they have

1383
01:21:15,280 --> 01:21:20,519
Speaker 3: increased to five more hours per year per viewer just

1384
01:21:20,600 --> 01:21:23,200
Speaker 3: from twenty three to twenty four that's a lot that

1385
01:21:23,360 --> 01:21:24,920
Speaker 3: is just documentaries.

1386
01:21:26,080 --> 01:21:30,280
Speaker 4: The average documentary. Yes, that's that's incredibly how many of those.

1387
01:21:30,160 --> 01:21:30,800
Speaker 2: Are true crime?

1388
01:21:31,680 --> 01:21:35,200
Speaker 3: Well, true crime I know is driving the growth. And

1389
01:21:35,360 --> 01:21:39,200
Speaker 3: then for example, and you know, the stats come when

1390
01:21:39,200 --> 01:21:41,240
Speaker 3: they come and take a minute. But on Netflix in

1391
01:21:41,320 --> 01:21:46,280
Speaker 3: twenty twenty four, fifteen of the top twenty doc titles

1392
01:21:47,120 --> 01:21:50,840
Speaker 3: were true crime. And that's compared to only six in

1393
01:21:50,960 --> 01:21:55,000
Speaker 3: twenty twenty. So six to fifteen is marek I do

1394
01:21:55,120 --> 01:21:58,600
Speaker 3: that's what like one hundred and twenty percent increase or

1395
01:21:58,640 --> 01:21:59,080
Speaker 3: something like that.

1396
01:21:59,320 --> 01:22:02,720
Speaker 2: That's crazy. Yeah, so true crime is you.

1397
01:22:02,760 --> 01:22:04,479
Speaker 4: Were one of the six and twenty twenties that were

1398
01:22:04,520 --> 01:22:07,720
Speaker 4: yours was twenty twenty Wow, and it you know.

1399
01:22:07,840 --> 01:22:10,760
Speaker 2: I mean the COVID It was I kind of call

1400
01:22:10,800 --> 01:22:13,400
Speaker 2: it the COVID you know thing because everybody was at home.

1401
01:22:13,920 --> 01:22:16,000
Speaker 2: And then right after don't know if the cats came out,

1402
01:22:16,080 --> 01:22:19,840
Speaker 2: Tiger King came out, yes, right right, So it was like,

1403
01:22:20,200 --> 01:22:23,840
Speaker 2: you know, it was crazy the things I was getting

1404
01:22:23,880 --> 01:22:26,599
Speaker 2: on social media during that time. You got to find

1405
01:22:26,640 --> 01:22:32,200
Speaker 2: out what happened to Carol Baskin's husband because the cats thing, right,

1406
01:22:32,600 --> 01:22:35,400
Speaker 2: and then the cat's connection right, It was it was wild.

1407
01:22:35,840 --> 01:22:40,000
Speaker 4: Did you ever get involved in that. No, Okay, I did.

1408
01:22:40,120 --> 01:22:43,599
Speaker 2: That really was such an odd moment in time.

1409
01:22:43,680 --> 01:22:47,280
Speaker 3: I mean everyone had their own adiocymocratic things. You know,

1410
01:22:47,479 --> 01:22:51,599
Speaker 3: we were like many wiping down boxes of cereal with chlorox,

1411
01:22:51,720 --> 01:22:54,400
Speaker 3: like none of us knew what to do with ourselves, right,

1412
01:22:54,840 --> 01:22:59,400
Speaker 3: But when Tiger King came out, you know, everyone were

1413
01:22:59,439 --> 01:23:04,320
Speaker 3: all wearing masks and I had had several that were

1414
01:23:04,439 --> 01:23:07,439
Speaker 3: sort of leopard and cheetah print and I would wash

1415
01:23:07,479 --> 01:23:11,240
Speaker 3: them and they were hanging over a bathroom shower Rod

1416
01:23:11,840 --> 01:23:13,679
Speaker 3: and I walked in and I remember sending a picture

1417
01:23:13,720 --> 01:23:15,439
Speaker 3: of some friends and it looked like a bunch.

1418
01:23:15,320 --> 01:23:25,760
Speaker 2: Of songs crazy girl. But it was just that it

1419
01:23:25,920 --> 01:23:28,439
Speaker 2: looked like the Tiger Gang. Thoughts. Well, but I think

1420
01:23:28,520 --> 01:23:32,840
Speaker 2: that really does point to you know, true crime in general, right,

1421
01:23:33,479 --> 01:23:35,760
Speaker 2: it is exploding. When I first went to crime Con,

1422
01:23:38,120 --> 01:23:40,800
Speaker 2: there wasn't I mean it was big, but it wasn't.

1423
01:23:40,960 --> 01:23:44,000
Speaker 2: I mean, it wasn't nearly what it is now. You know,

1424
01:23:44,600 --> 01:23:48,120
Speaker 2: the hotels every year, the hotels that they book for

1425
01:23:48,280 --> 01:23:51,920
Speaker 2: their you know, crime Con is a convention where you know,

1426
01:23:52,040 --> 01:23:57,120
Speaker 2: true crime fans go. There's also like police and lawyers

1427
01:23:57,200 --> 01:24:01,559
Speaker 2: and victims and advocates and yes, people like me. There's

1428
01:24:01,720 --> 01:24:06,040
Speaker 2: podcasters like us, and in any way, everybody goes this convention.

1429
01:24:06,160 --> 01:24:09,000
Speaker 2: It's like three days long. But when I first started going,

1430
01:24:09,080 --> 01:24:12,080
Speaker 2: it was very small. But now, I mean they booked

1431
01:24:12,080 --> 01:24:15,320
Speaker 2: the Caesar's Palace in Las Vegas for twenty twenty one's

1432
01:24:15,320 --> 01:24:18,680
Speaker 2: Crime con that's a big Hodel Wow. Yeah, So I

1433
01:24:18,760 --> 01:24:23,360
Speaker 2: mean lots of lots of people. Are you know, interested

1434
01:24:23,439 --> 01:24:26,080
Speaker 2: into your crime for one reason or another. There's I

1435
01:24:26,120 --> 01:24:29,280
Speaker 2: don't think there's any one reason. There's multiple, you know,

1436
01:24:29,920 --> 01:24:32,720
Speaker 2: no reasons. But it's a big genre now, I think

1437
01:24:32,720 --> 01:24:33,519
Speaker 2: the genre.

1438
01:24:34,000 --> 01:24:35,519
Speaker 4: Oh but I was just going to say, the production

1439
01:24:35,880 --> 01:24:37,800
Speaker 4: value has picked up so much through the years. Like

1440
01:24:38,040 --> 01:24:41,679
Speaker 4: I was younger, they were they were fine, they were interesting,

1441
01:24:42,080 --> 01:24:45,280
Speaker 4: But now they've gotten so stylized and creative and the

1442
01:24:45,360 --> 01:24:48,160
Speaker 4: angles that they lean into make them way more interesting.

1443
01:24:48,280 --> 01:24:50,719
Speaker 4: So I think that's part of the popularity. But Courtney,

1444
01:24:50,760 --> 01:24:51,439
Speaker 4: what were you going to say?

1445
01:24:53,200 --> 01:24:54,400
Speaker 2: A couple of things percolated.

1446
01:24:54,479 --> 01:24:57,160
Speaker 3: Actually, but when you said like the production value, because

1447
01:24:57,920 --> 01:25:01,160
Speaker 3: back back in the day, it was it was more

1448
01:25:01,280 --> 01:25:05,280
Speaker 3: see and say, and it was more sort of graphic reenactments,

1449
01:25:06,000 --> 01:25:09,639
Speaker 3: and thank goodness, that's that's just not the case anymore.

1450
01:25:10,200 --> 01:25:14,200
Speaker 3: Largely because it is. It's just it's so gratuitous, and

1451
01:25:14,360 --> 01:25:17,240
Speaker 3: it was you can tell a story without being graphic

1452
01:25:17,400 --> 01:25:17,760
Speaker 3: that way.

1453
01:25:18,360 --> 01:25:20,559
Speaker 2: Well, you know, and I think I think that it's

1454
01:25:20,640 --> 01:25:23,679
Speaker 2: really victim forward now, or at least you know, many

1455
01:25:23,840 --> 01:25:27,160
Speaker 2: try to be more victim forward, right, because victims have

1456
01:25:27,840 --> 01:25:31,880
Speaker 2: you know, really reshaped or taken their own story back, right, yes,

1457
01:25:31,960 --> 01:25:35,280
Speaker 2: and often telling the story instead of hiring some actress

1458
01:25:35,439 --> 01:25:38,320
Speaker 2: to cower in a closet and do it themselves or

1459
01:25:38,360 --> 01:25:41,360
Speaker 2: telling their own stories. So I think that's really pushed

1460
01:25:41,680 --> 01:25:45,280
Speaker 2: you know, production of these shows and you know, even

1461
01:25:45,320 --> 01:25:48,240
Speaker 2: podcasts to kind of switch it up in you know,

1462
01:25:48,479 --> 01:25:52,160
Speaker 2: not necessarily so graphic, but more victim forward and telling

1463
01:25:52,240 --> 01:25:55,760
Speaker 2: certain stories of survival and and whatnot. So, but there's

1464
01:25:55,800 --> 01:26:00,320
Speaker 2: still people like me who really like to dig into

1465
01:26:00,920 --> 01:26:04,600
Speaker 2: the detail of everything and the forensics and you know,

1466
01:26:04,800 --> 01:26:09,639
Speaker 2: even the legal analysis. I'm super into that. Yeah, you know, same.

1467
01:26:10,040 --> 01:26:13,840
Speaker 2: And there's so there's different genres within true crime itself.

1468
01:26:13,640 --> 01:26:16,880
Speaker 4: Right, agreed, Yeah, yeah, you're right, So you can almost

1469
01:26:16,920 --> 01:26:20,439
Speaker 4: find the lane that you interesting. And another thing that

1470
01:26:20,560 --> 01:26:23,360
Speaker 4: stands out to me is how it's shedding light on

1471
01:26:23,880 --> 01:26:26,679
Speaker 4: past cases, like you know, I don't know we recently

1472
01:26:26,720 --> 01:26:30,400
Speaker 4: did John Bennet or Greenberg. I think it just keeps

1473
01:26:30,520 --> 01:26:35,640
Speaker 4: those conversations going about some of these cases. So I

1474
01:26:35,720 --> 01:26:38,360
Speaker 4: think between that side of it, I think that's the

1475
01:26:38,520 --> 01:26:41,519
Speaker 4: interest their past case that people don't know about and

1476
01:26:41,920 --> 01:26:45,040
Speaker 4: they're following. But I also think the popularity or the

1477
01:26:45,080 --> 01:26:47,640
Speaker 4: reason they look so much better is everyone has a

1478
01:26:47,760 --> 01:26:51,120
Speaker 4: phone now, or there's a lot more police cam footage.

1479
01:26:51,320 --> 01:26:55,360
Speaker 4: There's more actual visuals that make it more compelling and interesting.

1480
01:26:55,479 --> 01:26:55,680
Speaker 4: To me.

1481
01:26:56,520 --> 01:27:00,720
Speaker 2: Remember they did that one documentary in Florida. It was

1482
01:27:00,760 --> 01:27:06,200
Speaker 2: all police cam footage that was incredible. The baby. The

1483
01:27:06,479 --> 01:27:09,920
Speaker 2: entire documentary was police cam footage, and I didn't have

1484
01:27:09,960 --> 01:27:12,240
Speaker 2: a problem with it. I understood exactly what was happening

1485
01:27:12,520 --> 01:27:18,240
Speaker 2: the entire time. Fascinating. It's so exquisitely done. Really, I

1486
01:27:19,040 --> 01:27:19,799
Speaker 2: I was floored.

1487
01:27:20,360 --> 01:27:23,040
Speaker 3: And Body, it's interesting you break. You bring up an

1488
01:27:23,080 --> 01:27:25,919
Speaker 3: interesting point that Taha and I were talking about earlier.

1489
01:27:26,640 --> 01:27:29,680
Speaker 3: Do you want to bring up the found footage and

1490
01:27:29,760 --> 01:27:32,200
Speaker 3: how AI is entering that?

1491
01:27:33,720 --> 01:27:36,240
Speaker 4: Yeah, we were. I think we This is all based

1492
01:27:36,280 --> 01:27:39,200
Speaker 4: Both Courtney and I love The Daily It's a New

1493
01:27:39,280 --> 01:27:42,040
Speaker 4: York Times podcast that they do and they dig into

1494
01:27:42,080 --> 01:27:45,360
Speaker 4: different topics and I think that particular episode was talking

1495
01:27:45,400 --> 01:27:49,559
Speaker 4: about how AI impacted the film industry movies, but they

1496
01:27:49,680 --> 01:27:54,519
Speaker 4: also talked about how in the documentary world, AI is

1497
01:27:54,640 --> 01:27:58,640
Speaker 4: being used because there's a bigger demand for a lot

1498
01:27:58,680 --> 01:28:01,719
Speaker 4: of these documentaries and they need to churn them out quicker.

1499
01:28:02,000 --> 01:28:06,400
Speaker 4: So sometimes they're using AI to recreate certain scenes. But

1500
01:28:07,360 --> 01:28:11,000
Speaker 4: the issue now is they're they're taking some liberties as

1501
01:28:11,040 --> 01:28:14,360
Speaker 4: they're creating some of these AI scenes, but people watching

1502
01:28:14,439 --> 01:28:17,320
Speaker 4: these think in the mindset like this is real or

1503
01:28:17,400 --> 01:28:20,360
Speaker 4: as it's going to cool, So it's becoming a little bit.

1504
01:28:20,280 --> 01:28:22,560
Speaker 2: Of a leederal. If I like that, I don't. I

1505
01:28:22,640 --> 01:28:24,880
Speaker 2: think a documentary should just be a documentary and not

1506
01:28:25,000 --> 01:28:29,479
Speaker 2: recreating you know, I'm with you, No, it just scares

1507
01:28:29,600 --> 01:28:32,479
Speaker 2: me cold absolutely think of you know advert I mean

1508
01:28:32,640 --> 01:28:36,360
Speaker 2: what he does, oh right, When I when I was filming,

1509
01:28:36,400 --> 01:28:38,280
Speaker 2: don't have with cats. I mean, of course they had

1510
01:28:38,320 --> 01:28:40,320
Speaker 2: me like sit at a desk and start typing and

1511
01:28:40,400 --> 01:28:42,680
Speaker 2: you know, things like that, But I never had to

1512
01:28:42,880 --> 01:28:46,519
Speaker 2: like recreate a scene or anything. You know, like that's easy.

1513
01:28:47,000 --> 01:28:51,320
Speaker 3: Well, but further, if it's AI and it's completely fabricated

1514
01:28:51,479 --> 01:28:55,200
Speaker 3: what we call archival, you know, potentially pictures or stuff

1515
01:28:55,280 --> 01:28:58,920
Speaker 3: like that, whereas otherwise it's such a treasure trove when

1516
01:28:58,960 --> 01:29:01,840
Speaker 3: you're sometimes so if we're lucky, you're invited to Okay,

1517
01:29:02,000 --> 01:29:04,559
Speaker 3: I have boxes and boxes if you want to look

1518
01:29:04,640 --> 01:29:08,840
Speaker 3: for photos and to find actual you know, that's the

1519
01:29:08,920 --> 01:29:10,439
Speaker 3: actual story versus AI.

1520
01:29:10,600 --> 01:29:13,920
Speaker 2: It scares me, silly. AI breaks me out, It freaks

1521
01:29:13,960 --> 01:29:18,920
Speaker 2: me out. Dogs. I say that with my glasses and

1522
01:29:19,040 --> 01:29:23,160
Speaker 2: my phone and my computer, and you know, right, don't

1523
01:29:23,200 --> 01:29:23,560
Speaker 2: listen to me.

1524
01:29:23,880 --> 01:29:26,080
Speaker 4: Well, we're talking docs, but I have there's something I

1525
01:29:26,200 --> 01:29:27,560
Speaker 4: was going to save because I was kind of a

1526
01:29:27,600 --> 01:29:28,120
Speaker 4: little surprised.

1527
01:29:28,280 --> 01:29:28,920
Speaker 2: Isn't a surprise.

1528
01:29:29,479 --> 01:29:32,040
Speaker 4: I'm going to share it because I just got to

1529
01:29:32,240 --> 01:29:36,200
Speaker 4: agreement with it. We're going to have a producer. His

1530
01:29:36,400 --> 01:29:39,120
Speaker 4: name is Joseph Freed. He's going to come on to

1531
01:29:39,240 --> 01:29:42,280
Speaker 4: talk about a documentary that he has worked on. It's

1532
01:29:42,360 --> 01:29:46,760
Speaker 4: called Love Ted Bundy and it's a documentary on the

1533
01:29:46,800 --> 01:29:50,760
Speaker 4: Oxygen Network. But we're going to have Edna Cohen, who

1534
01:29:50,880 --> 01:29:54,560
Speaker 4: is Ted Bundy's aunt, who's also she's going to be

1535
01:29:54,600 --> 01:29:56,840
Speaker 4: on the show. So she's going to talk about her

1536
01:29:56,880 --> 01:30:01,639
Speaker 4: correspondence with Ted Bundy and how she deceived. So that's

1537
01:30:01,680 --> 01:30:03,320
Speaker 4: going to be coming up in a couple of weeks,

1538
01:30:03,360 --> 01:30:07,000
Speaker 4: but it's a fascinating documentary. He went into a lot

1539
01:30:07,040 --> 01:30:10,639
Speaker 4: of details of it. I think you're going to be intrigued.

1540
01:30:11,200 --> 01:30:16,679
Speaker 2: How could you keep this for me? Literally the first

1541
01:30:16,760 --> 01:30:17,519
Speaker 2: I'm hearing of this.

1542
01:30:18,000 --> 01:30:22,799
Speaker 4: Yeah, on Ted Bundy's on. Her name is Edna Cowell

1543
01:30:22,960 --> 01:30:27,160
Speaker 4: co W E L L. And it sounds like this

1544
01:30:27,320 --> 01:30:30,120
Speaker 4: is a brief quick summary, but it sounds like I

1545
01:30:30,160 --> 01:30:33,360
Speaker 4: guess they were sort of raised together at a young age,

1546
01:30:33,400 --> 01:30:37,120
Speaker 4: so she knew Ted the entire time, went away to

1547
01:30:37,320 --> 01:30:41,080
Speaker 4: college and he was actually killing some of the victims

1548
01:30:41,200 --> 01:30:43,719
Speaker 4: in the vicinity of where she was going to college.

1549
01:30:44,000 --> 01:30:46,840
Speaker 4: They were spending time together and she even went over

1550
01:30:46,880 --> 01:30:48,560
Speaker 4: to his house at one point. He wouldn't let her in.

1551
01:30:48,680 --> 01:30:51,519
Speaker 4: He's like, oh no, no, no, no, come in. After

1552
01:30:51,840 --> 01:30:54,960
Speaker 4: he went to jail, she was still writing letters trying

1553
01:30:55,000 --> 01:30:57,040
Speaker 4: to get him to confess and admit that he had

1554
01:30:57,080 --> 01:31:00,840
Speaker 4: done it, but he continued to sort of get slighter.

1555
01:31:00,760 --> 01:31:03,880
Speaker 2: But as he did everyone.

1556
01:31:04,040 --> 01:31:06,920
Speaker 4: But she'll tell us directly of what it was like

1557
01:31:07,160 --> 01:31:08,000
Speaker 4: knowing Ted Bundy.

1558
01:31:08,400 --> 01:31:11,640
Speaker 2: I want to be related. I'm so excited.

1559
01:31:11,800 --> 01:31:15,840
Speaker 3: And Joe Freed ps is just a bomb of a

1560
01:31:15,960 --> 01:31:20,880
Speaker 3: producer as being Yeah, yeah, he really is. His wicked Smart.

1561
01:31:21,000 --> 01:31:24,200
Speaker 3: What else has he done he has done? Now I'm

1562
01:31:24,240 --> 01:31:25,840
Speaker 3: on the spot, but I'm sorry.

1563
01:31:25,880 --> 01:31:26,320
Speaker 2: I didn't mean.

1564
01:31:27,720 --> 01:31:29,559
Speaker 4: You know, it was a good question because I think

1565
01:31:29,640 --> 01:31:31,040
Speaker 4: he If I'm not mistaken, I'm.

1566
01:31:30,880 --> 01:31:35,200
Speaker 2: Pretty sure Elizabeth Smart, I'm fairly Oh really, I.

1567
01:31:35,240 --> 01:31:39,599
Speaker 4: Think he did an Ellen Greenberg documentary. Uh, I'm gonna

1568
01:31:39,640 --> 01:31:41,360
Speaker 4: I'm gonna have to hold that thought.

1569
01:31:42,680 --> 01:31:44,080
Speaker 2: Don't want to gee, I didn't.

1570
01:31:45,400 --> 01:31:50,760
Speaker 4: Yeah, but I just thought he's very articulate. He was really,

1571
01:31:51,240 --> 01:31:53,040
Speaker 4: he was really fascinating, just in.

1572
01:31:53,120 --> 01:31:55,800
Speaker 2: The what other secret guests do you have up your sleeve?

1573
01:31:57,040 --> 01:32:03,280
Speaker 2: That's the only tonight, see Stephanie's away. We're at play,

1574
01:32:03,720 --> 01:32:06,400
Speaker 2: you know exactly. We're all like running amok Lord of

1575
01:32:06,439 --> 01:32:09,880
Speaker 2: the Flies up a true crime tonight. Who's got the

1576
01:32:09,960 --> 01:32:10,960
Speaker 2: con shell right now?

1577
01:32:11,720 --> 01:32:14,720
Speaker 3: One thing he might actually love that Joe Free did

1578
01:32:14,880 --> 01:32:16,880
Speaker 3: was Eli Roth's history of horror.

1579
01:32:17,800 --> 01:32:18,960
Speaker 2: Oh never saw it.

1580
01:32:19,040 --> 01:32:21,040
Speaker 4: I think I don't know. I don't know Eli Roth.

1581
01:32:21,080 --> 01:32:23,320
Speaker 4: I'm not familiar he did.

1582
01:32:23,520 --> 01:32:27,800
Speaker 3: It's all about significant like Dorano, fear of pop culture.

1583
01:32:27,479 --> 01:32:28,519
Speaker 2: Ext I loved him.

1584
01:32:28,840 --> 01:32:33,040
Speaker 3: I would love this and it's all of the huge

1585
01:32:33,800 --> 01:32:39,680
Speaker 3: pop cultural, huge uh horror films and what happened without it?

1586
01:32:41,080 --> 01:32:41,400
Speaker 3: With them.

1587
01:32:42,400 --> 01:32:46,320
Speaker 4: Yeah, well get then here's another surprise. He's coming Monday. Surprise.

1588
01:32:46,720 --> 01:32:47,160
Speaker 4: Stop it.

1589
01:32:47,720 --> 01:32:52,240
Speaker 2: Seriously, he's just his vibe is I could see him

1590
01:32:52,280 --> 01:32:54,880
Speaker 2: and I going to like the tiki lounge and like

1591
01:32:55,160 --> 01:32:56,639
Speaker 2: sitting out and playing like juke box.

1592
01:32:56,960 --> 01:33:00,599
Speaker 4: The security is going to escort you out, like I could.

1593
01:33:00,640 --> 01:33:02,760
Speaker 2: Like I would have a time with drawn. I think

1594
01:33:02,880 --> 01:33:05,439
Speaker 2: like it would be so fun to hang out with

1595
01:33:05,479 --> 01:33:10,439
Speaker 2: that guy. He's a riot and yes, oh that's exciting.

1596
01:33:11,000 --> 01:33:12,360
Speaker 2: Any more secrets, I.

1597
01:33:13,080 --> 01:33:16,360
Speaker 4: Seriously talk I can only reveal too a night that

1598
01:33:16,720 --> 01:33:20,599
Speaker 4: the rest will keep. Oh, no episode, So we didn't

1599
01:33:20,600 --> 01:33:21,000
Speaker 4: even get to.

1600
01:33:21,000 --> 01:33:23,479
Speaker 2: A talk back. We were going, No, we didn't know.

1601
01:33:26,400 --> 01:33:28,280
Speaker 2: Maybe Sunday. How about Sunday, we'll plan.

1602
01:33:28,520 --> 01:33:32,320
Speaker 3: Let's let's make sure we have some have some time,

1603
01:33:32,320 --> 01:33:34,439
Speaker 3: because yeah, it's about time for the weekend.

1604
01:33:34,560 --> 01:33:37,920
Speaker 2: Everybody is you guys have got any good plans? Uh?

1605
01:33:38,360 --> 01:33:42,200
Speaker 3: I'm going to see a neighborhood play I'm very excited

1606
01:33:42,320 --> 01:33:45,240
Speaker 3: for I got that, and uh, a little League game?

1607
01:33:45,880 --> 01:33:48,800
Speaker 4: All right, nice, I'm going to try it. Now that

1608
01:33:48,920 --> 01:33:51,160
Speaker 4: all the Oscar nominees have been announced, we're going to

1609
01:33:51,200 --> 01:33:54,679
Speaker 4: try to check one off each weekend, if you will.

1610
01:33:54,920 --> 01:33:56,559
Speaker 2: So, is that something that you do every year?

1611
01:33:57,080 --> 01:33:57,280
Speaker 4: I do?

1612
01:33:57,600 --> 01:33:58,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, do you really?

1613
01:34:00,880 --> 01:34:01,400
Speaker 4: Most of them?

1614
01:34:02,760 --> 01:34:06,360
Speaker 2: I'm not doing anything. I'm not feeling so hot. Yeah

1615
01:34:06,400 --> 01:34:09,200
Speaker 2: you look at look at my Look at my forehead.

1616
01:34:09,200 --> 01:34:11,400
Speaker 2: I've got like sweat on it. Like I'm just not

1617
01:34:11,560 --> 01:34:15,120
Speaker 2: feeling so good. So I'm just gonna probably rest and

1618
01:34:15,200 --> 01:34:17,960
Speaker 2: maybe do my nails. I like to do my nails.

1619
01:34:18,000 --> 01:34:20,800
Speaker 2: You guys know, I love to see your nails. Yeah,

1620
01:34:20,920 --> 01:34:26,800
Speaker 2: it's inspirational. Well said everybody, Thank you so much for

1621
01:34:26,960 --> 01:34:27,559
Speaker 2: joining us.

1622
01:34:27,800 --> 01:34:30,080
Speaker 3: And on Sunday, we're going to be talking about some

1623
01:34:30,320 --> 01:34:32,680
Speaker 3: major trials that we're going to be following, like the

1624
01:34:32,760 --> 01:34:35,560
Speaker 3: au Pair double murder, and we're going to take a

1625
01:34:35,680 --> 01:34:39,439
Speaker 3: deep dive into the Zodiac. Killer Body is going to

1626
01:34:39,520 --> 01:34:42,839
Speaker 3: drive us through. And yeah, everyone, have a great weekend

1627
01:34:43,160 --> 01:34:44,600
Speaker 3: and be good or be good at it.

1628
01:34:45,040 --> 01:34:45,080
Speaker 5: I