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Speaker 1: Welcome to Creature feature production of I Heart Radio. I'm

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Speaker 1: your host of Mini Parasites Katie Golden. I studied psychology

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Speaker 1: and evolutionary biology, and today on the show The Immune Platoon,

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Speaker 1: how does your immune system work? And why are some

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Speaker 1: animals immune systems wildly different? Discover this more as we

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Speaker 1: answer the angel question. You can share your heart, but

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Speaker 1: can you share your circulatory system? Joining me today is

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Speaker 1: Philip Detmer, writer and creator of Kurtz kustok a k

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Speaker 1: A in a Nutshell, which is a beautiful YouTube channel

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Speaker 1: that teaches science and biology with absolutely gorgeous animations and

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Speaker 1: clear entertaining narration. He's also the author of the book Immune,

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Speaker 1: which is like going on to get to know you,

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Speaker 1: meet and greet with your own immune system. Welcome Philip, Hey,

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Speaker 1: thanks for having. The immune system is one of those

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Speaker 1: things where you don't think about it too much day

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Speaker 1: to day. Uh, you only think about it when you're

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Speaker 1: actually sick, and then you're like, oh, right, this is

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Speaker 1: a thing most people don't really have, like a concept

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Speaker 1: of the immune system. If you try to visualize it, like,

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Speaker 1: you don't see anything sort of accurate actually, because as

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Speaker 1: you said, it's it's not a thing like, yeah, this

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Speaker 1: is enormous complex stance of like trillions of things doing

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Speaker 1: this stuff at the same time. I read the Immune

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Speaker 1: Book and it's really really nice. I really like how

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Speaker 1: clear the explanations are, because I think something like the

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Speaker 1: immune system is so complex it can feel really intimidating.

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Speaker 1: One thing I think is hard for people to imagine

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Speaker 1: is like, where is the immune system. Do we have

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Speaker 1: an organ that is the immune system? Do we have

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Speaker 1: a little barracks filled with immune soldiers or they just

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Speaker 1: like everywhere. What I found helpful is to imagine the

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Speaker 1: immune system as an organ system, like like your cardiovascular system.

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Speaker 1: That's basically sure, like you have your heart and you

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Speaker 1: have like all your blood vessels all over and then

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Speaker 1: the tiny tiniest blood vessels going pretty much everywhere. That's

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Speaker 1: sort of how the immune system is. It's like an

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Speaker 1: incredibly expansive organ system. It's just like completely saturating your body. Basically,

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Speaker 1: do you have like your own immune system highway system,

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Speaker 1: the little the lymphatic system that looks a little bit

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Speaker 1: like your cadivascular system. You have dedicated like a few

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Speaker 1: hundred dedicated immune organs like you asked for, like like

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Speaker 1: a battle stations or something where like the soldiers gather

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Speaker 1: like like your lymph nodes are that basically um, like

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Speaker 1: spread all over your body. Um, you have like two

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Speaker 1: bigger dedicated organs like the simus above your heart the

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Speaker 1: size of like two chicken wings, which is like a

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Speaker 1: like I call it the murder University because like this

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Speaker 1: is like where immune system cells are trained, but like

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Speaker 1: only two percent of the students survive education. It's kind

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Speaker 1: of like the squid game, but for cells in your body. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: similar survival, right, I think. And of course there's like

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Speaker 1: an enormous amount of cells of the immune system basically

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Speaker 1: patrolling every border you've got sitting all below the skin,

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Speaker 1: sitting everywhere like just like blow all, um your more

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Speaker 1: cos us just like patrolling your body like um, that's

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Speaker 1: like like billions and billions in your blood right now.

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Speaker 1: And I think the last aspects of the immune system, um,

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Speaker 1: it's just like like sort of like passive defenses like

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Speaker 1: like sort of like proteins that you can imagine as

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Speaker 1: like mine fields can kill invaders just on their own,

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Speaker 1: are basically in every fluid of your body, so in

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Speaker 1: your blood and are the other disgusting stuff a booby

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Speaker 1: trapped body, And so what is our immune system protecting

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Speaker 1: us against because is I mean, obviously it's protecting us

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Speaker 1: from getting sick or from getting infections. But those kinds

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Speaker 1: of things like illness and infection comes from many different things, right,

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Speaker 1: It's not just a virus that can make you sick.

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Speaker 1: I mean basically, your immune system protects you from everything

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Speaker 1: that is not you in a really basic way. You

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Speaker 1: can think about immune system as as something that can

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Speaker 1: distinguish between self and other, and everything that is other

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Speaker 1: it wants to kill and destroy. It's like not happy

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Speaker 1: about other. Like if you enter the body, you need

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Speaker 1: like a very specific ah, what can you say, like

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Speaker 1: like a like a password or a key card? Yeah, okay, perfect,

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Speaker 1: Like if if you if you're like a prop for example,

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Speaker 1: if you're like a healthy bacteria for like your cat microbiome,

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Speaker 1: you need like a special code or password to have

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Speaker 1: to be killed immediately. The immune system basically it wants

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Speaker 1: to make sure, um that nothing that's not the body

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Speaker 1: exists within the body except the few exemptions in our

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Speaker 1: cut or so. I think a big misconception about commune

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Speaker 1: system in regard to that is that it's like it's

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Speaker 1: it's very it's great if it's very strong and very

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Speaker 1: aggressive and wants to kill everything. But actually, like the

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Speaker 1: the big thing about the immune system is that it

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Speaker 1: seeks balance. So like one way to imagine the immune

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Speaker 1: system would be like rugby players that like just like

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Speaker 1: smash faces. And if your immune system is like that,

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Speaker 1: that's not great. Like you want immune system to be

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Speaker 1: more like ballet dancers, like like very carefully select where

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Speaker 1: to step and then just like I like, um, not

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Speaker 1: overly aggressive if it's not necessary. Yeah, because if the

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Speaker 1: immune system is overly aggressive, it can actually hurt you,

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Speaker 1: hurt your body unintentionally. People with autoimmune disorders, your immune

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Speaker 1: system or even something as simple as like an allergy,

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Speaker 1: your immune system is actually hurting you because it's overreacting

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Speaker 1: to something that it doesn't really need to react so

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Speaker 1: strongly to. And in fact, a lot of illnesses the

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Speaker 1: suffering from that illness is from the immune system. And

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Speaker 1: sometimes that's okay because that's just the immune system working

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Speaker 1: and curing your body of the virus. But sometimes if

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Speaker 1: that immune response is too strong, it can actually be

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Speaker 1: pretty deadly, right, Yeah, Like even going further out, like

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Speaker 1: in the last two years, the papers have come out

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Speaker 1: to suggest that about half of all deadly of like, like,

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Speaker 1: but half the people dying today are dying because of

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Speaker 1: something that was initially caused by immune system overreaction. So

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Speaker 1: basically what But it's like a little bit weird to

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Speaker 1: like I think about is it? Like basically every every

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Speaker 1: time your immune system gets active, it causes damage. Like

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Speaker 1: an delated immune system is like technically not great, and

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Speaker 1: your body does a lot of stuff to like, um,

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Speaker 1: calm it down once it's activated. But yeah, like whenever

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Speaker 1: you're you're you're sick and the immune system gets active,

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Speaker 1: like damage happens, and that damage is often like the

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Speaker 1: symptoms we associate with being sick. Yeah, Like one of

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Speaker 1: the dangerous reactions your immune system can have to a

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Speaker 1: pathogen or even something that's not harmful just an allergen

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Speaker 1: is a cytokine storm, which is it's as far as

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Speaker 1: I know, it's as kind of chaotic and frightening as

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Speaker 1: it sounds, because it's you know, it's this chain reaction

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Speaker 1: of an immune response that can cause a lot of

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Speaker 1: inflammation and damage to your body where the immune system

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Speaker 1: is just trying to basically do its job. And take

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Speaker 1: care of your body and clear out any pathogens that

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Speaker 1: could hurt you. But it in effect, what it does

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Speaker 1: is it started this chain reaction of inflammation that is

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Speaker 1: damaging your own tissues and making it difficult for your

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Speaker 1: own body to function. Yeah, totally look like a cide.

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Speaker 1: The kind storm is definitely one of the more creepy

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Speaker 1: things that can happen to you. Should be briefly explained

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Speaker 1: what cyto kinds are. Yeah, let's do that, and how

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Speaker 1: about by let's how about you do that? Okay, Like

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Speaker 1: it's okay, let's let's simplify a lot, so like we

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Speaker 1: don't sit here for an hour. But like basically cydeo

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Speaker 1: kinds a little proteins, little chemicals that, like especially mune

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Speaker 1: cells used to communicate with each other. So for example,

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Speaker 1: like a commune cell that is like agitated and like

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Speaker 1: like aggressive and fighting will release cyto kinds that tell

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Speaker 1: other immune cells, hey guys, get here, get your fast

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Speaker 1: or it will just like generally show like hey, battlefield

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Speaker 1: this direction um or they will like activate other immune cells.

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Speaker 1: So it's like the all the communication happening within the

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Speaker 1: immune system is like in large parts sales releasing chemicals

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Speaker 1: picking up other chemicals or cyto kinds and then acting

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Speaker 1: according to the type of cytokinds they picked up. So,

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Speaker 1: for example, like like a cytokind storm, there's too many

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Speaker 1: of those like messengers released at the same time in

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Speaker 1: a in a too large of a scope, and it's

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Speaker 1: basically activating immune cells where they should not get activated

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Speaker 1: at place as where like there is no infection or

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Speaker 1: where they shouldn't activate. And yeahs, as we discussed before,

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Speaker 1: the immune system causes damage whenever it's activated. So a

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Speaker 1: cytekind storm is a little bit your whole immune system army,

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Speaker 1: and your whole body is like sort of like activated

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Speaker 1: at once. Yeah, everyone's getting scrambled. Yeah, it's it panic

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Speaker 1: that everybody's like everybody's getting their weapons out and shooting around,

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Speaker 1: but like maybe there's nobody to shoot it, so a

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Speaker 1: bunch of friendly fire. Yeah, that's into sting because the

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Speaker 1: way you described cytokines actually reminds me of pheromones in

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Speaker 1: bee colonies or aunt colonies and these other you social

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Speaker 1: insects where when a bee stings you, it actually releases

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Speaker 1: a chemical that signals to other bees that it has

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Speaker 1: stung you, and it calls other bees sort of to

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Speaker 1: come over, and also sting the thing that it's stung.

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Speaker 1: So that's why sometimes a bee swarm can be very dangerous,

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Speaker 1: especially for more aggressive b species, because at the more

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Speaker 1: bees that sting you, the more of this pheromone is

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Speaker 1: released that informs other bees, hey we're attacking this intruder

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Speaker 1: right now, come over and you know, get your stings in.

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Speaker 1: And so that can be very dangerous for you a

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Speaker 1: human being when faced with a bunch of bees, and

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Speaker 1: that can I guess happen in your own body as

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Speaker 1: well with cytokines, so your immune cells are doing a

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Speaker 1: similar thing to bees of like, hey, we're attacking this intruder.

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Speaker 1: Here's it's chemical to tell other cells to come to

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Speaker 1: my aid and to attack this intruder. And then if

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Speaker 1: that gets out of hand, if you have too many

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Speaker 1: of those cyta kinds, you just have pand ammonium of

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Speaker 1: a bunch of soldiers just shooting at everything in their path,

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Speaker 1: basically inside your own body. Yeah, that's a very good description.

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Speaker 1: I think that's basically how how this works. Like a

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Speaker 1: very stupid things reacting to chemicals and and that's actually

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Speaker 1: isn't that one of the problems with people who get

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Speaker 1: sick with COVID. Right, So, various infections, especially in the

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Speaker 1: early stages, hugely rely on the cyto kinds of these

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Speaker 1: communication methods to activate the immune system and prepare the

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Speaker 1: battlefield for later fighting. So one thing that that seems

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Speaker 1: to happen in COVID, according to some papers I read,

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Speaker 1: is that like COVID suppresses decide the kind that basically

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Speaker 1: would slow down the virus infection and gives immune system

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Speaker 1: more time. But while it's the at that time, like

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Speaker 1: at the same time, it's sort of boost the production

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Speaker 1: of cytokinds that cause inflammation. And inflammation is basically just

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Speaker 1: like blood vessels opening up a little bit and letting

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Speaker 1: like fluid into the tissue. So what COVID seems to

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Speaker 1: do is just like while basically avoiding being slowed down

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Speaker 1: by cytokinds, it just like floods the lung swift water.

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Speaker 1: Yeah and yeah, that's not great. And it's like one

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Speaker 1: of one example where like a pathogen has like hacked

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Speaker 1: the mutism system a little bit. That is one of

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Speaker 1: the creepy things about the arms race between our immune

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Speaker 1: systems and pathogens is that as pathogens evolved, like we

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Speaker 1: are starting our our immune systems will evolve in response

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Speaker 1: to new pathogens, like a new virus. But in the meantime,

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Speaker 1: seeing it when the pathogen has the upper hand against

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Speaker 1: the immune system, it's it's very frightening. It's it's something

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Speaker 1: that makes you realize, oh yeah, no, we are in

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Speaker 1: a constant arms race with things like viruses and bacteria,

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Speaker 1: and sometimes they actually come out on top, which is

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Speaker 1: kind of a both humbling and frightening kind of thing

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Speaker 1: to witness. And one aspect of that is that, like

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Speaker 1: not all of our immune systems are created equally, so

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Speaker 1: just like like in a population, a certain amount of

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Speaker 1: people will be extra vulnerable against certain diseases. And so yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's like we as a species need to survive a pathogen,

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Speaker 1: but as an individual, yeah, it's definitely the best, yeah exactly.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, so it is. It is something that's very interesting.

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Speaker 1: So it's like our immune system, even though sometimes it

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Speaker 1: overreacts and hurts our body, it is absolutely necessary to

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Speaker 1: prevent us from being completely basically devoured from the inside

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Speaker 1: out by things like viruses and unfriendly bacteria and other pathogens.

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Speaker 1: If you think about it, like Basically, if you die,

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Speaker 1: you can like like witness what happens to a body

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Speaker 1: once there's no immune system anymore. It's just like yeah,

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Speaker 1: like it's completely dissolved by micro organisms. Um, so yeah,

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Speaker 1: that would be our faith without an immune system. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 1: The reason that bodies decay is that you're no longer alive,

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Speaker 1: and so your immune system is no longer around to

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Speaker 1: kill off the bacteria that want to eat you. In fact,

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Speaker 1: like they're while your life. Some of the most dangerous

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Speaker 1: diseases are things where say bacteria is able to survive

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Speaker 1: your immune system, so like necrotizing fasciitis is something where

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Speaker 1: a bacteria is eating away at you while you're alive,

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Speaker 1: while your immune system tries desperately to stop it, but

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Speaker 1: it's not fast enough. It is kind of terrifying to think,

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Speaker 1: you know, what life would be like without our immune

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Speaker 1: systems and without modern medicine to help when people are

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Speaker 1: immuno compromised, and it's like the against the vast, vast

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Speaker 1: majority of micro organisms or immune system is perfectly fine.

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Speaker 1: Like most viruses a like have like no capacity to

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Speaker 1: hurt us, like most bacteria don't have that, but like

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Speaker 1: yet exactly those like those few quitters. I think that's

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Speaker 1: like only like two hundred species of viruses that like

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Speaker 1: can infect humans. I need to like please could not

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Speaker 1: quote me, but like something in this area. Um um. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So like only once like a like a micro organism

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Speaker 1: gains the ability to like like keep our immune system

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Speaker 1: and check or like like deactivate part of that. Only

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Speaker 1: then it becomes like dangerous to us. Most other things

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Speaker 1: are basically like no challenge for immune system. In the

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Speaker 1: book Immune, you often describe the immune system as beautiful.

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Speaker 1: What do you mean by this? Because if I think

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Speaker 1: about the lymphatic system or you know, lymph node or

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Speaker 1: some white blood cells, you know, physically speaking, looking at it,

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Speaker 1: it doesn't look that beautiful. I mean, come on, like

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Speaker 1: like the lymphatic system super highway, stretching throughout your whole body,

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Speaker 1: and I think that's magic. It's like so great. I mean,

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Speaker 1: like the immune system. It's like often called like the

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Speaker 1: second most complex biological system after the human brain. Um.

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Speaker 1: And I think that's like and that's like that's like

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Speaker 1: a description. I really I really like it's like just

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Speaker 1: like unfasom fathomably complex. And I think that's like in

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Speaker 1: that their lives like that immense beauty. I feel at least,

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Speaker 1: how are we even my life? How is it possible

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Speaker 1: like like our body like for for ourselves to defend it,

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Speaker 1: Like our body is so enormously large. It's like like

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Speaker 1: imagine you had to like defend like central Europe or

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Speaker 1: like like the US. That's like the that's like the scope.

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Speaker 1: If you were one immune cell, you can just like

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Speaker 1: look at the whole US and say like, okay, I

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Speaker 1: need to defend that, and like, um I can I

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Speaker 1: need to be called maybe like too Florida today and

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Speaker 1: to Texas tomorrow. It's like huge distances and the amount

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Speaker 1: of connectivity and communication and like systems that are like

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Speaker 1: cells and proteins and all that stuff defending you. They're

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Speaker 1: like really like they're stupid, like lovely but stupid, Like

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Speaker 1: like a cell is pretty useless, just like this mini

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Speaker 1: protein robot that does its thing according to the chemicals

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Speaker 1: that picks up and it's like code. But somehow, like

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Speaker 1: like trillions of these stupid paths come together to organize

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Speaker 1: this like incredible defense of of you of yourself, And

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Speaker 1: I think that's beautiful. I don't know. On the more

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Speaker 1: macro level makes me think about why I find ant

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Speaker 1: colonies or b colonies so beautiful because like an aunt itself,

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Speaker 1: I mean, I mean that's with no disrespect act an

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Speaker 1: individual ant is pretty stupid. But then when you get

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Speaker 1: a whole ant colony together, they have such complex and

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Speaker 1: interesting behaviors like raft building, bridge building, and especially good example.

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Speaker 1: Have that in the book at some point. But like

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Speaker 1: stupid things doing smart things. Maybe that's why I love

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Speaker 1: my dog so much, because she's a stupid talked out

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Speaker 1: once in a while, that's a smart thing. So we've

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Speaker 1: talked a little bit about human immune systems and why

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Speaker 1: they're so amazing and beautiful, and now I want to

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Speaker 1: talk about some weird exceptions to sort of the immune

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Speaker 1: system rules. I mean, every animal will have a slightly

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Speaker 1: different immune system. In fact, every individual has a slightly

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Speaker 1: different immune system. We don't all come out with carbon

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Speaker 1: copies of each other's immune systems. That's why some people

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Speaker 1: will get sick more than others. You know, they're not

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Speaker 1: just they're not just complainers that people can literally get

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Speaker 1: more sick than you because their immune system doesn't respond

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Speaker 1: in the same way that yours does. And then on

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Speaker 1: the species level, of course, every species of animals has

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Speaker 1: a different immune system. Some are more similar to ours,

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Speaker 1: some are more different. One of the most interesting mammalian

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Speaker 1: immune systems out there is that of bats. So I

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Speaker 1: love bats, that's not a secret. They're adorable, misunderstood little

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Speaker 1: cutie's that I want to love and cuddle, but you shouldn't.

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Speaker 1: You shouldn't love and cuddle them, even though they are

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Speaker 1: so cute. But they have really fascinating immune systems. Now, obviously,

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Speaker 1: there are many, many species of bats. They're one of

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Speaker 1: the most diverse groups of mammals with incredibly diverse morphology.

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Speaker 1: But often they will have somewhat similar immune systems. So

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Speaker 1: when I talk about bat immune system, I'm talking about

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Speaker 1: a range of different species that share these characteristics. Bats

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Speaker 1: get kind of a bad rap, I think. Obviously. There's

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Speaker 1: a lot of the myths, like they nest in your hair,

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Speaker 1: they suck your blood, which are just not really true.

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Speaker 1: There's only one species of vampire bat out of like

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Speaker 1: the three or four total species that has ever even

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Speaker 1: been documented to drink human blood, and it's never enough

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Speaker 1: to kill anyone. It's like literally less blood than you

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Speaker 1: have to give when you go to the doctor's office.

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Speaker 1: But but one of the things that people are maybe

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Speaker 1: squeamish about bats are that they are seen as being

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Speaker 1: dirty and disease written and that they're always the ones

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Speaker 1: responsible for, say, zoonotic diseases, and which is the actual

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Speaker 1: truth behind that is a little more complex than them

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Speaker 1: just being like dirty and full of disease. So uh,

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Speaker 1: because bats are actually really a combating disease. They have

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Speaker 1: really incredible immune systems that can fight off pathogens that

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Speaker 1: might kill other mammals. So you know how like you know,

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Speaker 1: everyone's kind of points the fingers at bats for COVID

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Speaker 1: and for other diseases like that sort of your general

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Speaker 1: since from from people's perspectives on bats, I mean, yeah,

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Speaker 1: like they they probably did cause COVID, So that's it's

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Speaker 1: a little bit fair. What what does make the immune

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Speaker 1: system different? So they it's complicated, right, So like they

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Speaker 1: have this is what I put you through at the

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Speaker 1: first in the first half, But I really want to know, like,

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Speaker 1: like I actually don't know a lot about bats, so

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Speaker 1: I'm really curious to like to learn how they're different. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So so yeah, so they the reason that they may

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Speaker 1: be anddidates for us finding zoonotic diseases in them. Like,

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Speaker 1: if they do spread zoonotic diseases, it may not be

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Speaker 1: because they're dirty or like more prone to diseases. Actually

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Speaker 1: could be the opposite. That they have a much more

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Speaker 1: effective immune system than other mammals. So diseases and pathogens

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Speaker 1: actually have to struggle harder to survive inside a bat

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Speaker 1: than they would another mammal because the bat's immune system

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Speaker 1: is so strong but still like similar enough to like

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Speaker 1: ours that if we have bad luck, they can jump

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Speaker 1: over basically right right right. If these viruses have to

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Speaker 1: mutate a bunch of times to try to even get

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Speaker 1: a foothold in a bat species, these pathogens are just

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Speaker 1: going through many more They have to mutate much more

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Speaker 1: rapidly than if they were infecting another less robust immune system.

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Speaker 1: And so just the that kind of casino of of

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Speaker 1: viruses try to roll the die every time that it

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Speaker 1: mutates to see, you know, whether it can get a

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Speaker 1: foothold on some sell and some organism. They're just like

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Speaker 1: doing this many more times because it's so much harder

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Speaker 1: to survive inside a bat that I mean, that is

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Speaker 1: a theory. I don't know. This is these are all

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Speaker 1: kind of theoretical things because the we really need to

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Speaker 1: study bad immune systems much more to really get a

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Speaker 1: good understanding of it. Because the bad immune system is

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Speaker 1: so robust, it doesn't necessarily mean that they're responsible for

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Speaker 1: passing on zoonotic diseases or that this is just like

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Speaker 1: one stop off on the road of like these diseases

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Speaker 1: on their path to humans. But one of the theories

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Speaker 1: is that, like the bad immune system is like a

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Speaker 1: thunderdome for viruses, and so viruses have to basically become

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Speaker 1: really tough to survive the bat. That's that's super interesting,

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Speaker 1: if that's not too mean. If a question click, do

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Speaker 1: you have maybe an example like like like which sort

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Speaker 1: of which part of the defense, like anti irs defenses

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Speaker 1: of bats are like so efficient. Yeah, absolutely so. One

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Speaker 1: of the theories for why bats are so tough for

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Speaker 1: a virus to survive is that, um, weirdly so, like

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Speaker 1: their immune systems may be less strongly reactive as compared

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Speaker 1: to humans. So remember when earlier you were actually talking

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Speaker 1: about how you don't necessarily want an immune system that

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Speaker 1: just nukes everything in its site because that kills your body. Um,

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Speaker 1: you want a more gentle immune system. So that it

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Speaker 1: can target pathogens and viruses but not destroy your own

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00:24:37,960 --> 00:24:42,240
Speaker 1: body in the meantime. Um. But of course the downside

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Speaker 1: to that is if you have a more gentle immune system,

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Speaker 1: then it's harder for you to combat viruses, so the

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Speaker 1: virus might be able to replicate more. But one trick

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Speaker 1: that bats have is that, in addition to their immune system,

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Speaker 1: their thermal regulations, so their bod the temperature may play

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Speaker 1: a key role in immune defense. So researchers have studied

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Speaker 1: the immune response of palaces massive bats so that these adorably,

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00:25:13,520 --> 00:25:18,040
Speaker 1: very doofy looking bats. They're from Panama, they're insectivores, very

399
00:25:18,119 --> 00:25:22,719
Speaker 1: very cute um. When they're infected with a harmless dummy pathogen,

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Speaker 1: their immune system barely reacted, so they didn't have a fever.

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Speaker 1: They didn't have a huge surge in white blood cells,

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00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:33,520
Speaker 1: which is really odd because we know bats are pretty

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Speaker 1: good at fighting off pathogens. The researchers did surmise that

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00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:42,960
Speaker 1: this bats immune system was engaged because it lost some

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Speaker 1: body mass, which is a sign that their immune system

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00:25:45,720 --> 00:25:50,680
Speaker 1: is consuming or an energy um. So one of the

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Speaker 1: theories that researchers have come up with and have been

408
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Speaker 1: studying is that bats rely on drastic change in body

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Speaker 1: heat that they go through every day, uh in order

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Speaker 1: to curb the replication of viruses. So basically they are

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Speaker 1: creating a very hostile environment for pathogens by having such

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00:26:10,840 --> 00:26:16,719
Speaker 1: severe internal body weather. So like for many species of bats,

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Speaker 1: when they are sleeping during the day, they enter a

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00:26:19,320 --> 00:26:24,200
Speaker 1: kind of miniature hypernation or torpore. So this is where

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00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:27,960
Speaker 1: their metabolism slows down and their body temperature drops in

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00:26:28,119 --> 00:26:30,320
Speaker 1: for a lot of species it drops down to about

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00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:35,199
Speaker 1: seventy seven degrees fahrenheit, which is twenty five degrees celsius,

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Speaker 1: or in some species during the winter, their body temperature

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00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:41,200
Speaker 1: can drop to as low as fifty degrees fahrenheit or

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00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:44,560
Speaker 1: ten degrees celsius, which for a human, if your body

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00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:49,160
Speaker 1: is that cold, you're dead, so super interesting. So when

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00:26:49,160 --> 00:26:53,359
Speaker 1: they go out to hunt, it's body temperature shoots way

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Speaker 1: up to around a hundred and four degrees fahrenheit or

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Speaker 1: about forty degrees celsius, which would be a high fever

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00:27:00,520 --> 00:27:06,160
Speaker 1: in humans. So having a fever is really interesting, right

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00:27:06,240 --> 00:27:10,399
Speaker 1: because for when we're experiencing a fever, it's really not great,

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00:27:10,680 --> 00:27:12,840
Speaker 1: you know, if you have Also, if you have too

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Speaker 1: high of a fever. It can be harmful to your body.

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Speaker 1: It can um you know, cause like uh damage because

430
00:27:22,520 --> 00:27:26,880
Speaker 1: you're essentially you're getting too hot for your your own safety.

431
00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:32,280
Speaker 1: But in general, having a low grade fever or survivable fever,

432
00:27:32,880 --> 00:27:37,720
Speaker 1: you are destroying whatever pathogen has infected your body. You're

433
00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:41,080
Speaker 1: like boiling them alive. Right. One of the theories is

434
00:27:41,119 --> 00:27:43,919
Speaker 1: that basically they turned into fridges during the day when

435
00:27:43,960 --> 00:27:49,280
Speaker 1: they're sleeping because they're nocturnal, which slows down virus viral replication.

436
00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:52,120
Speaker 1: And then during the night when they're active, they heat

437
00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:56,720
Speaker 1: up to these little furnaces that maybe also is unfriendly

438
00:27:56,800 --> 00:28:01,199
Speaker 1: towards viruses and pathogens. It seems are not great for

439
00:28:01,280 --> 00:28:03,960
Speaker 1: us humans because like this way they can like basically

440
00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:08,000
Speaker 1: breed viruses such like um don't suffer from our fever

441
00:28:08,119 --> 00:28:11,800
Speaker 1: responses since we are not getting us hot right right.

442
00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:13,960
Speaker 1: This is one of the theories is again like the

443
00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:19,440
Speaker 1: bat is like this thunderdome, this incredibly hostile environment for

444
00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:24,919
Speaker 1: viruses and pathogens such that they need to mutate to

445
00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:27,960
Speaker 1: be tougher in order to even survive like a day

446
00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:31,200
Speaker 1: inside of a bat. It seems like we are propagating,

447
00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:37,000
Speaker 1: eradicating all bats. No, absolutely not no, no, no. I

448
00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:40,520
Speaker 1: mean one of the issues obviously with eradicating all bats

449
00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:43,239
Speaker 1: is that they do a lot more for us in

450
00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:46,800
Speaker 1: protecting us from diseases than they could ever do harming

451
00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:49,960
Speaker 1: us with diseases. Because of the fact that bats are

452
00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:54,360
Speaker 1: insectivores and so the fact that the bats control populations

453
00:28:54,400 --> 00:29:00,000
Speaker 1: of things like mosquitoes, flies, other potentially disease carrying insects,

454
00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:04,160
Speaker 1: they are much much better for humanity than they would

455
00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:09,000
Speaker 1: ever hurt us. They're also, uh pollinators, so they're responsible

456
00:29:09,040 --> 00:29:13,280
Speaker 1: for huge amounts of cromp and plant pollination. So without

457
00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:18,640
Speaker 1: bats we'd be completely doomed. We'd be screwed. Also, they're adorable,

458
00:29:18,760 --> 00:29:23,760
Speaker 1: so how dare you? Okay, but it's it's a it

459
00:29:23,760 --> 00:29:27,280
Speaker 1: seems like we will help hold off on eradicating all bets.

460
00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:30,600
Speaker 1: Then good, good, yes. Uh. Some of the evidence suggests

461
00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:33,760
Speaker 1: that the daily torpor so that many hibernation they do

462
00:29:33,880 --> 00:29:37,560
Speaker 1: during the day maybe even more important for them to

463
00:29:38,120 --> 00:29:41,479
Speaker 1: survive than the that kind of fever that they have

464
00:29:41,560 --> 00:29:46,720
Speaker 1: when they're active, because that body temperature dropping so much

465
00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:52,880
Speaker 1: really slows the pathogen's rate of reproduction to crawl, and

466
00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:57,080
Speaker 1: so that may be why they're relatively delicate immune systems

467
00:29:57,120 --> 00:29:59,640
Speaker 1: are able to be so effective, so they slow down

468
00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:03,520
Speaker 1: the athogen with their body temperature, and then their immune system,

469
00:30:03,560 --> 00:30:07,200
Speaker 1: with their very surgical precision, comes in and takes care

470
00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:10,280
Speaker 1: of it, which I think is really interesting because in

471
00:30:10,960 --> 00:30:15,960
Speaker 1: medicine we sometimes use what's it called cryotherapy, or when

472
00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:20,560
Speaker 1: you lower a patient's body temperature down while they're fighting

473
00:30:20,640 --> 00:30:24,600
Speaker 1: off infection or illness. So one of the theories is

474
00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:28,080
Speaker 1: that the viruses get tougher when they're faced with bat

475
00:30:28,120 --> 00:30:32,840
Speaker 1: immune cells, so it's more difficult for them to combat

476
00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:35,720
Speaker 1: immune cells, so they have to learn to spread and

477
00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:39,000
Speaker 1: infect cells more efficiently and quickly. But one of the

478
00:30:39,160 --> 00:30:43,720
Speaker 1: issues is that these studies were done on bat cells

479
00:30:43,800 --> 00:30:46,840
Speaker 1: outside of the bat's body, so you're they're missing a

480
00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:51,480
Speaker 1: key component of how the bat's temperature can affect the

481
00:30:51,520 --> 00:30:54,640
Speaker 1: immune system, so which when you're studying cells in a

482
00:30:54,720 --> 00:30:57,800
Speaker 1: petri dish, you have to be forgiven for not being

483
00:30:57,840 --> 00:31:03,600
Speaker 1: able to completely replicate a bats internal body system. But um,

484
00:31:03,640 --> 00:31:06,880
Speaker 1: but yeah, it's we don't really have a complete picture

485
00:31:07,040 --> 00:31:12,880
Speaker 1: of how bat immune systems impact zoonotic diseases, and in fact,

486
00:31:12,920 --> 00:31:17,200
Speaker 1: one of the there is some controversy about like how

487
00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:20,680
Speaker 1: responsible bats are for zooonotic diseases. And one of the

488
00:31:20,840 --> 00:31:24,920
Speaker 1: arguments against them being as bad as they seem is

489
00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:29,520
Speaker 1: that we will find more antibodies left over in living

490
00:31:29,560 --> 00:31:34,000
Speaker 1: bats that are captured because they survived these immune system

491
00:31:34,040 --> 00:31:39,360
Speaker 1: battles more often. So because they survive battling these diseases

492
00:31:39,440 --> 00:31:42,280
Speaker 1: more often, we will simply find more of them with

493
00:31:42,360 --> 00:31:46,880
Speaker 1: these antibodies UH. And so this concept that like, oh

494
00:31:47,160 --> 00:31:50,520
Speaker 1: a lot of them are disease written and are always

495
00:31:50,560 --> 00:31:53,000
Speaker 1: responsible for spreading things to humans, it could just be

496
00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:56,680
Speaker 1: sort of a survivor bias, right, because other animals that

497
00:31:56,720 --> 00:31:59,200
Speaker 1: are infected with it, they may die more quickly. And

498
00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:03,760
Speaker 1: then so we when we're capturing animals and testing them

499
00:32:03,800 --> 00:32:08,200
Speaker 1: for these antibody UH shapes and stuff, we don't find

500
00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:10,760
Speaker 1: it because the ones that were in fact it did die,

501
00:32:12,040 --> 00:32:16,840
Speaker 1: whereas these bats survive and have these antibodies. I wonder

502
00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:18,920
Speaker 1: if we will learn how all of that works the

503
00:32:18,960 --> 00:32:21,640
Speaker 1: next two years, Like, like COVID certainly has to have

504
00:32:21,800 --> 00:32:26,960
Speaker 1: like given bad researchers more budget, right, Like yeah, maybe

505
00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:28,960
Speaker 1: like one of the positive side effects of like this

506
00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:31,640
Speaker 1: pandemic will be like increased budgets for stuff like that,

507
00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:34,160
Speaker 1: so we can find I mean, these are like super

508
00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:42,160
Speaker 1: interesting and crucial problems to sort of. One of the

509
00:32:42,280 --> 00:32:45,240
Speaker 1: interesting things about the immune system is how it can

510
00:32:45,320 --> 00:32:49,400
Speaker 1: be you know, obviously it's it's a huge blessing because

511
00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:52,200
Speaker 1: it keeps us alive, it keeps us from getting eaten

512
00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:56,520
Speaker 1: from the inside out, but it can also present us

513
00:32:56,640 --> 00:33:02,960
Speaker 1: with a obstacle in modern medicine, so we have advanced

514
00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:05,000
Speaker 1: as a species to the point where we can like

515
00:33:05,120 --> 00:33:10,840
Speaker 1: shove someone else's organs inside another body, which is crazy,

516
00:33:10,920 --> 00:33:13,920
Speaker 1: and nobody has sent the memo to our immune system

517
00:33:13,960 --> 00:33:17,320
Speaker 1: to tell us that we're doing this. It's you know,

518
00:33:17,760 --> 00:33:21,360
Speaker 1: it's something that our immune system could have never predicted

519
00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:25,200
Speaker 1: that doctors would someday be like taking someone else's heart

520
00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:28,320
Speaker 1: and putting it into a different person's body. When you

521
00:33:28,360 --> 00:33:32,320
Speaker 1: think of it from the immune system's perspective, that's that's

522
00:33:32,360 --> 00:33:35,520
Speaker 1: not something that it should have seen coming. Right, as

523
00:33:35,560 --> 00:33:37,560
Speaker 1: we said, it's the very beginning. It's just like it

524
00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:40,400
Speaker 1: just sees that something that's like not me, that's like

525
00:33:40,600 --> 00:33:43,200
Speaker 1: something other, and I need to kill it. Yeah. Yeah,

526
00:33:43,280 --> 00:33:46,640
Speaker 1: that's what happens when you're trying to transplant something. Yeah,

527
00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:51,320
Speaker 1: for millions of years of our evolutionary history. It's it's

528
00:33:51,360 --> 00:33:54,480
Speaker 1: you know, basically been functioning the same way and it's

529
00:33:54,480 --> 00:33:58,120
Speaker 1: worked out pretty well. And now we introduce modern medicine

530
00:33:58,160 --> 00:34:00,760
Speaker 1: and then we get all mad at the immune system

531
00:34:00,760 --> 00:34:03,120
Speaker 1: when it starts rejecting organs, which I think is kind

532
00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:07,880
Speaker 1: of unfair, but nevertheless, it is a big medical challenge

533
00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:12,880
Speaker 1: because when you say do an organ transplant, the immune

534
00:34:12,920 --> 00:34:16,120
Speaker 1: system doesn't have any way to understand this organ is

535
00:34:16,160 --> 00:34:19,520
Speaker 1: being transplanted with all its foreign cells to help the

536
00:34:19,560 --> 00:34:22,760
Speaker 1: body that you you can't communicate that to the immune system.

537
00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:26,000
Speaker 1: It's not sentient, even though it is very complex. It

538
00:34:26,200 --> 00:34:30,360
Speaker 1: can't tell the difference between the foreign tissues of a

539
00:34:30,400 --> 00:34:34,040
Speaker 1: donated organ and a dangerous pathogen, so it will often

540
00:34:34,080 --> 00:34:39,520
Speaker 1: attack something like a donated organ. And this has been

541
00:34:39,600 --> 00:34:44,080
Speaker 1: like one of the biggest challenges to things like being

542
00:34:44,120 --> 00:34:48,839
Speaker 1: able to do organ transplants. And even today with organ transplants,

543
00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:53,279
Speaker 1: patients still have to take immuno suppressing drugs, often for

544
00:34:53,400 --> 00:34:56,960
Speaker 1: their entire life right to cope with an organ transplant.

545
00:34:57,080 --> 00:34:59,319
Speaker 1: One of the reasons why the immune system it's like

546
00:34:59,400 --> 00:35:03,840
Speaker 1: so aggress I like attacks organs that like would save

547
00:35:03,880 --> 00:35:06,200
Speaker 1: the life of the body is that they're just like

548
00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:11,080
Speaker 1: they're made to to look for cells a little bit

549
00:35:11,120 --> 00:35:14,239
Speaker 1: of So for example, like if you're if you have

550
00:35:14,280 --> 00:35:17,960
Speaker 1: a virus infection, like many like the majority of the

551
00:35:18,040 --> 00:35:21,280
Speaker 1: viruses at any given point will be in infected cells

552
00:35:21,480 --> 00:35:25,040
Speaker 1: and not float around freely. So basically, if you're infected

553
00:35:25,360 --> 00:35:30,640
Speaker 1: by a virus, your body wants to find the infected

554
00:35:30,680 --> 00:35:34,400
Speaker 1: cells and kill them, which is like like another not

555
00:35:34,560 --> 00:35:36,600
Speaker 1: a small thing to do, right, So, like you have

556
00:35:36,680 --> 00:35:40,520
Speaker 1: cells inside yourself that have like the they have blank

557
00:35:40,640 --> 00:35:45,000
Speaker 1: check to kill body cells. That's a very very dangerous power.

558
00:35:45,520 --> 00:35:48,040
Speaker 1: Like you really want to have a few safeguards for that.

559
00:35:49,160 --> 00:35:53,400
Speaker 1: So UM, and one of those safeguards, it's basically that

560
00:35:53,480 --> 00:35:56,440
Speaker 1: the cells have like a little passport, and on that

561
00:35:56,480 --> 00:36:00,600
Speaker 1: passport it says, hey, I'm you, I'm I'm part of

562
00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:05,799
Speaker 1: this system, I'm this body. Please don't kill myself. UM.

563
00:36:05,880 --> 00:36:08,800
Speaker 1: And you have cells in your body that do nothing

564
00:36:09,080 --> 00:36:11,479
Speaker 1: but like go through your body, go to every cell

565
00:36:11,800 --> 00:36:14,640
Speaker 1: and just like check their passports and like hey, everything

566
00:36:14,640 --> 00:36:17,240
Speaker 1: all right, Like how's your day? Please show me your papers?

567
00:36:17,880 --> 00:36:20,320
Speaker 1: And if like this cell is infected by a virus

568
00:36:20,320 --> 00:36:24,719
Speaker 1: for example, um or if it is becoming cancerous like

569
00:36:24,760 --> 00:36:27,319
Speaker 1: the okay, all the real mechanisms here, like way to

570
00:36:27,400 --> 00:36:30,879
Speaker 1: complicate it for not but like super interesting, but let's

571
00:36:30,880 --> 00:36:33,400
Speaker 1: just keep it with the passport. So like like if

572
00:36:33,440 --> 00:36:36,319
Speaker 1: a cell is sick, the chances that their passport it's

573
00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:39,120
Speaker 1: a little bit corrupted, is very high. So those cells

574
00:36:39,120 --> 00:36:42,280
Speaker 1: that patrol your body all the time, if they find

575
00:36:42,280 --> 00:36:44,640
Speaker 1: a cell where they're like not happy with like what

576
00:36:44,719 --> 00:36:49,360
Speaker 1: the passport said, they just kill them immediately. Very authoritarian

577
00:36:49,440 --> 00:36:53,040
Speaker 1: society and our immune system, the immune system is a

578
00:36:53,120 --> 00:36:55,920
Speaker 1: police state and it does not care, like it doesn't

579
00:36:56,400 --> 00:36:59,880
Speaker 1: like and actually like even more gruesome if you want to,

580
00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:02,479
Speaker 1: because like they won't kill the cell, they will tell

581
00:37:02,560 --> 00:37:06,360
Speaker 1: the cell to kill itself. Because that's also like another

582
00:37:06,440 --> 00:37:10,279
Speaker 1: interesting thing tax in theory. So it is important how

583
00:37:10,320 --> 00:37:14,239
Speaker 1: our cell dies because of ourselves infected by viruses, and

584
00:37:14,360 --> 00:37:17,480
Speaker 1: like like the guardian cell, we'll just like rip it

585
00:37:17,520 --> 00:37:20,200
Speaker 1: open and kill it. Then all the viruses inside the

586
00:37:20,239 --> 00:37:23,799
Speaker 1: in fact itself will spread further. Right, So that's bad,

587
00:37:23,920 --> 00:37:26,719
Speaker 1: you don't want that, But it's that you tell the

588
00:37:26,719 --> 00:37:30,640
Speaker 1: cell to kill itself, and it's like been selves killed themselves,

589
00:37:31,000 --> 00:37:33,360
Speaker 1: which like basically I think like every second a million

590
00:37:33,400 --> 00:37:36,760
Speaker 1: of yourselves commit suicide something like that, like huge numbers,

591
00:37:36,840 --> 00:37:39,759
Speaker 1: like like yourselves kill themselves all the time, and it's

592
00:37:39,800 --> 00:37:42,560
Speaker 1: super important that they do. But when they kill themselves,

593
00:37:42,560 --> 00:37:47,880
Speaker 1: they basically very politely back their remains into little bags

594
00:37:48,239 --> 00:37:51,960
Speaker 1: that that can later be picked up by. Funnily enough, also,

595
00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:55,400
Speaker 1: the immune system microphages just like clean up dead cells

596
00:37:56,719 --> 00:38:01,520
Speaker 1: apoptos is right, yeah, exactly, And or we're blubbing where

597
00:38:01,560 --> 00:38:04,920
Speaker 1: they just kind of like disintegrate into little bubbles and

598
00:38:04,960 --> 00:38:07,200
Speaker 1: then the macrophages come in and then eat all the

599
00:38:07,239 --> 00:38:11,160
Speaker 1: little bubbles. Yeah, it looks super funny too, if you

600
00:38:11,239 --> 00:38:14,640
Speaker 1: find a video on the internet about that. Just yeah,

601
00:38:14,719 --> 00:38:17,799
Speaker 1: like once cell become yeah, turning into little packages that

602
00:38:17,880 --> 00:38:19,719
Speaker 1: it can be cleaned up. It'd be like in a

603
00:38:19,800 --> 00:38:23,759
Speaker 1: zombie apocalypse if like when there's someone infected with the

604
00:38:23,840 --> 00:38:29,280
Speaker 1: zombie virus and you have someone roaming around testing everyone

605
00:38:29,320 --> 00:38:31,160
Speaker 1: for the zombie virus. It's like, oh, you've got the

606
00:38:31,239 --> 00:38:34,279
Speaker 1: zombie virus, and they're like okay, and then like chop

607
00:38:34,360 --> 00:38:37,320
Speaker 1: themselves up into little pieces and pack themselves up in

608
00:38:37,360 --> 00:38:41,200
Speaker 1: the little bags for easy disposal. Yeah. It's like like

609
00:38:41,600 --> 00:38:45,320
Speaker 1: sadly humans are not that cooperative. Yeah, but like like

610
00:38:45,320 --> 00:38:48,040
Speaker 1: like like cells, just like they can be ordered to

611
00:38:48,120 --> 00:38:51,200
Speaker 1: cool themselves. And it's it's great that it's like that.

612
00:38:51,320 --> 00:38:55,560
Speaker 1: It works like that. Um, we're talking about immune cells,

613
00:38:55,680 --> 00:39:03,080
Speaker 1: not don't don't anthropomorphize them to much. I get so excited. Okay,

614
00:39:03,080 --> 00:39:04,680
Speaker 1: but I can now now I act like now we've

615
00:39:04,760 --> 00:39:08,279
Speaker 1: talked super super briefly about the natural killer cell, which

616
00:39:08,320 --> 00:39:11,000
Speaker 1: is like one of the best immune cells just because

617
00:39:11,360 --> 00:39:13,880
Speaker 1: just because of its name and what it does, Like,

618
00:39:13,960 --> 00:39:16,799
Speaker 1: the natural killer cell is one of those cells that

619
00:39:16,920 --> 00:39:21,400
Speaker 1: do nothing but patrol your body and just like ask people, um,

620
00:39:21,600 --> 00:39:24,440
Speaker 1: like what what's up? Um? And it's it has like

621
00:39:24,480 --> 00:39:28,359
Speaker 1: an ingenious strategy. It's just amazing. So as you can

622
00:39:28,400 --> 00:39:33,280
Speaker 1: imagine um, cancer cells and in fact, like cells infected

623
00:39:33,280 --> 00:39:36,279
Speaker 1: by viruses. They figured that out the whole thing of

624
00:39:36,320 --> 00:39:40,480
Speaker 1: the passport, right they think, oh, if we alter the passport,

625
00:39:41,120 --> 00:39:44,280
Speaker 1: then the immune system and again like nobody's thinking anything.

626
00:39:44,320 --> 00:39:47,400
Speaker 1: It's just like it's evolution but adaptation. Yes, this is

627
00:39:47,400 --> 00:39:50,799
Speaker 1: fluff talk. It makes it like nobody is thinking anything here.

628
00:39:50,960 --> 00:39:55,520
Speaker 1: But like let's say including like the viruses. Yeah, viruses

629
00:39:55,520 --> 00:39:58,840
Speaker 1: and cancer cells think okay, wait, like if you corrupt

630
00:39:58,880 --> 00:40:02,240
Speaker 1: the passport and we will we will we will be killed.

631
00:40:02,560 --> 00:40:05,839
Speaker 1: That's not great. And so maybe instead we just don't

632
00:40:05,840 --> 00:40:09,160
Speaker 1: show a passport. We just make sure that like all

633
00:40:09,200 --> 00:40:12,799
Speaker 1: the cells patrolling don't see the passport and then they

634
00:40:12,840 --> 00:40:15,279
Speaker 1: will ignore U because they can't find the flaws and

635
00:40:15,320 --> 00:40:19,080
Speaker 1: that it is a very effective strategy. Like like like

636
00:40:19,640 --> 00:40:23,160
Speaker 1: some types of those patrolling cells need to see a

637
00:40:23,360 --> 00:40:27,040
Speaker 1: passport to like tell us a cell to kill itself, right,

638
00:40:27,040 --> 00:40:31,400
Speaker 1: otherwise all our selves, which will be bad. Yeah, it's yeah, exactly,

639
00:40:31,520 --> 00:40:34,680
Speaker 1: Like it's not great. So for example, like red blood

640
00:40:34,680 --> 00:40:37,880
Speaker 1: cells don't have don't have passports, and there's a lot

641
00:40:37,920 --> 00:40:41,720
Speaker 1: of them, so it's a it's good in theory, Okay,

642
00:40:41,760 --> 00:40:44,839
Speaker 1: But here's the other cell comes in, the natural killer cell.

643
00:40:45,320 --> 00:40:48,320
Speaker 1: What the natural killer cell does. It just goes around

644
00:40:48,560 --> 00:40:53,000
Speaker 1: and checks if cells have a passport. Nothing else. It

645
00:40:53,080 --> 00:40:56,680
Speaker 1: just checks does the seller have a passport? And if

646
00:40:56,719 --> 00:41:00,920
Speaker 1: the answer is no, it kills the cell. So basically

647
00:41:00,920 --> 00:41:04,279
Speaker 1: you have like an like the natural killer cell. It's

648
00:41:04,320 --> 00:41:08,080
Speaker 1: basically a counter strategy to a counter strategy to the

649
00:41:08,080 --> 00:41:12,319
Speaker 1: immune system. Like their cells that are controlling passports, their

650
00:41:12,440 --> 00:41:15,600
Speaker 1: enemies that are hiding passports. There are cells that are

651
00:41:15,800 --> 00:41:19,680
Speaker 1: just looking for cells that are hiding their passports. This

652
00:41:19,840 --> 00:41:24,439
Speaker 1: is like a blade runner situation. Yeah, and okay, going

653
00:41:24,480 --> 00:41:27,560
Speaker 1: back to organ donations, So what what the problem is

654
00:41:27,600 --> 00:41:30,520
Speaker 1: and what the immune system could not have predicted millions

655
00:41:30,560 --> 00:41:33,480
Speaker 1: of years ago when it evolved, is that like intelligent

656
00:41:33,520 --> 00:41:36,480
Speaker 1: apes at some point would like put organs from one

657
00:41:36,480 --> 00:41:39,800
Speaker 1: living being to to other living beings. So what happens

658
00:41:39,840 --> 00:41:43,320
Speaker 1: now if you get transplanted an organ, your immune cells,

659
00:41:43,440 --> 00:41:46,440
Speaker 1: We'll just check passport and they will see, oh, this

660
00:41:46,520 --> 00:41:49,040
Speaker 1: passport is a little bit of maybe not even that

661
00:41:49,160 --> 00:41:51,919
Speaker 1: much of, but it is a little bit of better

662
00:41:52,040 --> 00:41:54,879
Speaker 1: kill that cell, tell it to kill itself. And then

663
00:41:54,960 --> 00:41:57,560
Speaker 1: like another thing that we talked about earlier, like when

664
00:41:57,640 --> 00:42:01,440
Speaker 1: the immune system gets activated, it usually activates more immune

665
00:42:01,440 --> 00:42:05,160
Speaker 1: system and gets more immune cells to that place, and

666
00:42:05,200 --> 00:42:08,120
Speaker 1: they will find so many cells that have like passports

667
00:42:08,120 --> 00:42:11,520
Speaker 1: that are a little bit off um and so basically

668
00:42:11,560 --> 00:42:15,040
Speaker 1: your immune system will eat and kill the organ that

669
00:42:15,160 --> 00:42:18,080
Speaker 1: is otherwise saving your life. And that's also why it

670
00:42:18,160 --> 00:42:21,400
Speaker 1: is like way like way better to have like an

671
00:42:21,480 --> 00:42:24,440
Speaker 1: organ donor that's like closely related to you, because your

672
00:42:24,480 --> 00:42:28,080
Speaker 1: passports will match or be like not that different. I

673
00:42:28,120 --> 00:42:32,279
Speaker 1: think like with like one eyed one twins that's a

674
00:42:32,320 --> 00:42:35,879
Speaker 1: correct way to say that in English. Um, I think

675
00:42:35,880 --> 00:42:39,720
Speaker 1: with that like you have like the the absolute lowest

676
00:42:39,719 --> 00:42:43,319
Speaker 1: amount of reject organ rejection. I think, okay, well we'll

677
00:42:43,360 --> 00:42:46,480
Speaker 1: not please cut that up. I have no idea. That

678
00:42:46,560 --> 00:42:51,200
Speaker 1: sounds right to me. It sounds right right if they're

679
00:42:51,239 --> 00:42:55,680
Speaker 1: identical twins. Even fraternal twins share a lot of genes

680
00:42:55,719 --> 00:43:00,480
Speaker 1: like siblings, but identical twins share the most gene of

681
00:43:00,520 --> 00:43:05,799
Speaker 1: any two simultaneous living humans. So I would imagine that

682
00:43:05,840 --> 00:43:10,200
Speaker 1: their immune systems are probably very similar. I think it

683
00:43:10,280 --> 00:43:12,640
Speaker 1: is that way, but like, yeah, it's like one of

684
00:43:12,680 --> 00:43:15,520
Speaker 1: these things where like it's feels logical, but like should

685
00:43:15,560 --> 00:43:17,799
Speaker 1: you say the things that seems to follow from that,

686
00:43:17,840 --> 00:43:20,080
Speaker 1: like we we should look that up. Let's put it

687
00:43:20,120 --> 00:43:25,000
Speaker 1: this way. Don't practice home surgery on yourselves, twins out there.

688
00:43:25,440 --> 00:43:29,560
Speaker 1: Don't take our words for it. Yeah, but please please don't.

689
00:43:30,160 --> 00:43:33,000
Speaker 1: But yeah, that's like the the the amazing magic of

690
00:43:34,120 --> 00:43:38,440
Speaker 1: the immune system once again, checking passports and ruining your life.

691
00:43:40,120 --> 00:43:43,120
Speaker 1: It's like without like wanting to do that, right, but yeah,

692
00:43:43,200 --> 00:43:46,040
Speaker 1: the immune system, it's like it's a it's a dangerous,

693
00:43:46,160 --> 00:43:50,000
Speaker 1: dangerous entity. I guess it's good too for your immune

694
00:43:50,040 --> 00:43:53,680
Speaker 1: system to be so authoritarian when it comes to viruses,

695
00:43:53,760 --> 00:43:56,960
Speaker 1: but when it comes to friendly cells coming and that

696
00:43:57,120 --> 00:44:00,440
Speaker 1: are supposed to help you, an authoritarian immune in state

697
00:44:00,560 --> 00:44:06,239
Speaker 1: can actually be pretty bad. It's like totally especially if

698
00:44:06,239 --> 00:44:10,160
Speaker 1: you have like all commune diseases, which is basically um

699
00:44:10,360 --> 00:44:13,000
Speaker 1: where your body decided that like a type of cell

700
00:44:13,640 --> 00:44:16,440
Speaker 1: that is part of you is actually an enemy and

701
00:44:16,520 --> 00:44:20,320
Speaker 1: just like begins to kill it and like whenever and again,

702
00:44:20,360 --> 00:44:24,560
Speaker 1: like since since the activation cycle works, like like once

703
00:44:24,600 --> 00:44:27,239
Speaker 1: you activate the immune system, like an immune cell, it

704
00:44:27,320 --> 00:44:32,120
Speaker 1: calls other immune cells like it's like a self fulfilling prophecy.

705
00:44:32,400 --> 00:44:35,400
Speaker 1: You're all like like the immune system. It's like you know,

706
00:44:35,680 --> 00:44:40,120
Speaker 1: you know the joke about like the okay is it? Okay?

707
00:44:40,200 --> 00:44:42,480
Speaker 1: Is this called ghost drive in English? If you like

708
00:44:42,560 --> 00:44:46,359
Speaker 1: go go down the highway on the opposite direction ghost drive?

709
00:44:46,600 --> 00:44:48,640
Speaker 1: What it just? Is it called in English when you

710
00:44:48,680 --> 00:44:52,120
Speaker 1: go the highway the opposite way, just driving on the

711
00:44:52,200 --> 00:44:54,560
Speaker 1: wrong side of their own Okay? So like we have

712
00:44:54,600 --> 00:44:56,360
Speaker 1: a job what worked for that in German which I

713
00:44:56,440 --> 00:44:59,000
Speaker 1: tried to translate, which it didn't work. We don't have

714
00:44:59,080 --> 00:45:01,720
Speaker 1: a we don't have a many specific words in English

715
00:45:01,719 --> 00:45:06,640
Speaker 1: for things. Fair enough, enough. So it's like those immune

716
00:45:06,680 --> 00:45:10,480
Speaker 1: cells that got activated against your own body. They're basically

717
00:45:10,520 --> 00:45:12,920
Speaker 1: it's like cells going down the wrong side of the

718
00:45:13,000 --> 00:45:15,719
Speaker 1: highway and they're just like wondering why, Like there are

719
00:45:15,719 --> 00:45:18,240
Speaker 1: thousands of people going in the wrong way on the highway.

720
00:45:18,280 --> 00:45:22,160
Speaker 1: What's wrong. It's like like your immune like your autoimmune cells,

721
00:45:22,160 --> 00:45:27,200
Speaker 1: it's like the enemies everywhere. Yeah, like like this horrible guys,

722
00:45:27,280 --> 00:45:30,040
Speaker 1: like we like there's a serious affection going on, like

723
00:45:30,080 --> 00:45:32,440
Speaker 1: what's happening here? And then that's how you get like

724
00:45:32,560 --> 00:45:38,320
Speaker 1: inflammatory bow disease and other autoimmune disorders. And yeah, it's horrible,

725
00:45:38,920 --> 00:45:42,120
Speaker 1: very desperate and like confused and said immune cells that

726
00:45:42,280 --> 00:45:44,480
Speaker 1: just like thinks they're like like in World War two.

727
00:45:45,520 --> 00:45:48,120
Speaker 1: Oh boy, a bunch of a bunch of doomsday proper

728
00:45:48,160 --> 00:45:51,400
Speaker 1: cells that have gone away too extreme in your own body.

729
00:45:51,840 --> 00:45:55,399
Speaker 1: That's not a good thing. But yeah, in some cases,

730
00:45:55,800 --> 00:45:59,360
Speaker 1: the immune system has to be completely revamped in order

731
00:45:59,480 --> 00:46:06,040
Speaker 1: to work with certain evolutionary traits. So when we're talking

732
00:46:06,040 --> 00:46:09,960
Speaker 1: about like a fetus or a donated organ, you have

733
00:46:10,080 --> 00:46:13,480
Speaker 1: this problem of of you have to solve to stop

734
00:46:13,480 --> 00:46:16,680
Speaker 1: the immune system from attacking that thing. But what if

735
00:46:16,760 --> 00:46:21,440
Speaker 1: instead of having a donated organ You have a donated

736
00:46:21,520 --> 00:46:25,239
Speaker 1: boyfriend that is attached to your body. So this is

737
00:46:25,280 --> 00:46:32,080
Speaker 1: what happens with anglerfish. So anglerfish we kind of the

738
00:46:32,120 --> 00:46:35,520
Speaker 1: most famous species of anglerfish. You probably have a pretty

739
00:46:35,520 --> 00:46:37,720
Speaker 1: good idea of what it looks like. They're those really

740
00:46:37,800 --> 00:46:42,160
Speaker 1: spooky looking deep sea fish with the big pointy teeth,

741
00:46:42,600 --> 00:46:49,600
Speaker 1: a bioluminescent lure, and overall very bony, angular, haunted looking bodies.

742
00:46:49,920 --> 00:46:53,880
Speaker 1: There are many species of anglerfish, but the ones that

743
00:46:53,960 --> 00:46:57,600
Speaker 1: you're probably thinking of ore in the Sarah Today family,

744
00:46:57,920 --> 00:47:02,560
Speaker 1: So they're the creepy, glowing, pointy tooth. Uh. They're actually

745
00:47:02,680 --> 00:47:07,879
Speaker 1: also called sea devils because they look horrible, like some

746
00:47:08,000 --> 00:47:11,040
Speaker 1: kind of ghoul that lives at the bottom of the ocean.

747
00:47:11,480 --> 00:47:15,320
Speaker 1: They have this fun little quirk where, in order to mate,

748
00:47:16,040 --> 00:47:21,320
Speaker 1: the male, who is this tiny tadpole like fish compared

749
00:47:21,360 --> 00:47:25,839
Speaker 1: to the much larger female, actually attaches himself to the

750
00:47:25,880 --> 00:47:30,560
Speaker 1: female's body so he'll bite down on the underside of

751
00:47:30,600 --> 00:47:34,960
Speaker 1: her belly, and his mouth actually uses an enzyme to

752
00:47:35,000 --> 00:47:39,000
Speaker 1: melt their flesh together, so his mouth will melt and

753
00:47:39,120 --> 00:47:42,359
Speaker 1: that point on the female's belly will melt broken down

754
00:47:42,400 --> 00:47:46,000
Speaker 1: by this enzyme, and then they're just fused together, and

755
00:47:46,080 --> 00:47:51,799
Speaker 1: it's he's like grafted himself onto the female's body, which is,

756
00:47:52,000 --> 00:47:54,920
Speaker 1: you know, that's a lot of commitment. I got admire,

757
00:47:55,400 --> 00:47:58,959
Speaker 1: got admire that level of commitment in a relationship. So

758
00:47:59,560 --> 00:48:03,160
Speaker 1: once the male is attached to the female, he will

759
00:48:03,280 --> 00:48:09,759
Speaker 1: depend on her for nutrients, for breathing, for the circulatory system, locomotion, everything.

760
00:48:09,880 --> 00:48:15,279
Speaker 1: He basically becomes like an appendage and and he's an

761
00:48:15,280 --> 00:48:20,959
Speaker 1: appendage that will provide her with sperm for reproduction. And

762
00:48:21,120 --> 00:48:25,759
Speaker 1: this may seem like the perfect romantic story, you know,

763
00:48:25,800 --> 00:48:28,680
Speaker 1: just a very cozy situation, but there's a big problem,

764
00:48:28,680 --> 00:48:31,840
Speaker 1: which is the immune response. Because you know, if you

765
00:48:31,960 --> 00:48:35,160
Speaker 1: try to graft yourself to another person, it's not going

766
00:48:35,200 --> 00:48:36,919
Speaker 1: to go well. I mean, first of all, I don't

767
00:48:36,960 --> 00:48:40,160
Speaker 1: think most people would be cool with that, but also

768
00:48:40,400 --> 00:48:42,719
Speaker 1: your immune system would not be cool with that, and

769
00:48:42,840 --> 00:48:49,080
Speaker 1: your immune system would attack this foreign object attached to you.

770
00:48:49,520 --> 00:48:54,080
Speaker 1: So anglerfish just have decided that they love this uh

771
00:48:54,320 --> 00:48:57,040
Speaker 1: kind of situation so much where the male attaches it

772
00:48:57,120 --> 00:49:00,480
Speaker 1: to the female, they've completely ditched a whole part of

773
00:49:00,520 --> 00:49:04,200
Speaker 1: their immune system in order to make this very close

774
00:49:04,239 --> 00:49:08,239
Speaker 1: relationship work. Basically is that they don't they did they

775
00:49:08,239 --> 00:49:11,640
Speaker 1: skipt T cells and lex the adaptive immune system? Yes,

776
00:49:11,840 --> 00:49:17,319
Speaker 1: so they they completely scraped the adaptive immune system. They're

777
00:49:17,320 --> 00:49:20,719
Speaker 1: actually two main categories of immune system, right, There's the

778
00:49:20,760 --> 00:49:25,400
Speaker 1: adaptive immune system and the innate immune system, right, yeah,

779
00:49:25,480 --> 00:49:29,239
Speaker 1: the first line defense and like the superweapons if you want,

780
00:49:29,320 --> 00:49:32,920
Speaker 1: Like what a nice picture. So, like, the innate immune

781
00:49:32,920 --> 00:49:37,399
Speaker 1: system is less like a supercomputer and more like sort

782
00:49:37,440 --> 00:49:41,800
Speaker 1: of a physical fortress. So part of your innate immune

783
00:49:41,800 --> 00:49:44,279
Speaker 1: system is stuff like your skin, right, like it it

784
00:49:44,400 --> 00:49:51,320
Speaker 1: protects your your body from invasion or mucasal lining's um.

785
00:49:51,560 --> 00:49:57,000
Speaker 1: Macrophages are also part of the innate immune system, right yeah,

786
00:49:57,080 --> 00:50:00,319
Speaker 1: like like all the soldiers cell basically this sold your

787
00:50:00,360 --> 00:50:04,840
Speaker 1: cells that like when they see an enemy can engage

788
00:50:04,840 --> 00:50:09,880
Speaker 1: immediately in besson heads. Yeah, heavy the heavy fighting, right exactly.

789
00:50:10,560 --> 00:50:14,279
Speaker 1: So it's kind of the less technologically advanced part of

790
00:50:14,280 --> 00:50:18,200
Speaker 1: the immune system. But the adaptive immune system is that

791
00:50:18,280 --> 00:50:23,480
Speaker 1: really pretty complex, like a bunch of little computer programs

792
00:50:23,560 --> 00:50:28,160
Speaker 1: running around. So uh, antibodies and T cells being called

793
00:50:28,200 --> 00:50:33,400
Speaker 1: into action that are adapting themselves to unique pathogens or

794
00:50:33,480 --> 00:50:39,880
Speaker 1: viruses or strange new threats. Right, may offer a picture, yes, maybe,

795
00:50:39,920 --> 00:50:42,799
Speaker 1: like like so as far as I've understood it, Like

796
00:50:42,880 --> 00:50:46,480
Speaker 1: the like the in an immune system, it's just like

797
00:50:46,719 --> 00:50:49,480
Speaker 1: already when you're born, it's it's there, it's ready, it's

798
00:50:49,520 --> 00:50:52,480
Speaker 1: ready to go, it's happy to fight for you. And

799
00:50:52,560 --> 00:50:56,080
Speaker 1: the adaptive immune system is like when you're born. It's

800
00:50:56,120 --> 00:50:58,920
Speaker 1: like it's like a computer. It's like hardware, but it

801
00:50:58,960 --> 00:51:02,040
Speaker 1: doesn't have software yet, so it's like it's also like

802
00:51:02,120 --> 00:51:04,399
Speaker 1: one of the reasons why kids get sick so much,

803
00:51:04,640 --> 00:51:08,040
Speaker 1: they don't like the immunity has not booted up basically,

804
00:51:08,480 --> 00:51:11,239
Speaker 1: and and what like this hardware without software does it

805
00:51:11,280 --> 00:51:15,279
Speaker 1: then collects data and gets better and better at defending you.

806
00:51:16,040 --> 00:51:19,279
Speaker 1: And it basically is like the I guess in a

807
00:51:19,360 --> 00:51:21,719
Speaker 1: sense you could say it's like the stronger part of

808
00:51:21,760 --> 00:51:25,719
Speaker 1: the two immune systems when it's really properly activated. So like,

809
00:51:25,760 --> 00:51:28,560
Speaker 1: I'm really really curious to learn how it like made

810
00:51:28,560 --> 00:51:31,840
Speaker 1: sense for the English fish too to drop in like

811
00:51:31,920 --> 00:51:35,400
Speaker 1: all of that right right exactly. It's it's really strange

812
00:51:35,560 --> 00:51:39,600
Speaker 1: because in order for this mating system to work, for

813
00:51:39,680 --> 00:51:42,040
Speaker 1: the male to be able to attach to the female

814
00:51:42,440 --> 00:51:46,319
Speaker 1: and not be killed by her immune system, basically that

815
00:51:46,560 --> 00:51:51,320
Speaker 1: aspect of their immune system doesn't function, so they don't

816
00:51:51,400 --> 00:51:55,840
Speaker 1: really use you know, antibodies and T cells. They still

817
00:51:55,920 --> 00:52:00,000
Speaker 1: have the innate immune system, so some of them more

818
00:52:00,080 --> 00:52:05,000
Speaker 1: or rudimentary kinds of immune responses that they do to

819
00:52:05,480 --> 00:52:10,439
Speaker 1: you know, basic basic pathogens. But uh, when that mail

820
00:52:10,520 --> 00:52:13,319
Speaker 1: will attach to the female, there is no they you know,

821
00:52:13,400 --> 00:52:16,440
Speaker 1: these cells in that area won't call for an immune

822
00:52:16,440 --> 00:52:19,600
Speaker 1: response to come over and attack the mail. And so

823
00:52:19,640 --> 00:52:23,759
Speaker 1: the big question is, Okay, great, but how do they survive?

824
00:52:24,360 --> 00:52:27,799
Speaker 1: I hate to you know, leave everyone on a cliffhanger.

825
00:52:28,120 --> 00:52:31,640
Speaker 1: Researchers are still looking into it. There's no definitive answer

826
00:52:31,880 --> 00:52:35,719
Speaker 1: of like, you know, why this system works for these

827
00:52:35,840 --> 00:52:40,279
Speaker 1: weird little fish. Uh, it's possible that they have a

828
00:52:40,320 --> 00:52:43,160
Speaker 1: stronger innate system to make up for the lack of

829
00:52:43,160 --> 00:52:47,640
Speaker 1: the adaptive system. So, uh, this is really weird, um,

830
00:52:47,760 --> 00:52:50,040
Speaker 1: and you you'd probably know more about how weird this

831
00:52:50,120 --> 00:52:55,320
Speaker 1: is because it doesn't seem like these immune systems should

832
00:52:55,320 --> 00:52:58,640
Speaker 1: be able to be decoupled, like they kind of work

833
00:52:58,719 --> 00:53:04,160
Speaker 1: together technically lazy adaptive immune system really technically like the

834
00:53:04,160 --> 00:53:07,560
Speaker 1: adaptive immune system really super depends on the innate immune

835
00:53:07,600 --> 00:53:11,120
Speaker 1: system to activate it. So the the adaptive immune system

836
00:53:11,120 --> 00:53:18,239
Speaker 1: basically it's on standby always until you're innate immune system decides. Basically, oh,

837
00:53:18,360 --> 00:53:21,520
Speaker 1: like he's like something dangerous is going on. It's like

838
00:53:21,520 --> 00:53:24,319
Speaker 1: like too much for for for me to handle. I'll

839
00:53:24,360 --> 00:53:29,480
Speaker 1: activate my adaptive immune system body. So technically you don't

840
00:53:29,520 --> 00:53:33,920
Speaker 1: need too many switches. I mean, like I have no idea,

841
00:53:35,360 --> 00:53:38,560
Speaker 1: not I'm not pretending anything about angler fish, but at least,

842
00:53:38,560 --> 00:53:41,839
Speaker 1: like an in humans, if you switch off, like one

843
00:53:41,960 --> 00:53:45,200
Speaker 1: or two cells from the adaptive immune system have patterned

844
00:53:45,320 --> 00:53:49,000
Speaker 1: from your innate immune system, your adaptive adaptive immune system

845
00:53:49,320 --> 00:53:52,560
Speaker 1: should not activate anymore. But that's just like sounds like

846
00:53:52,680 --> 00:53:56,040
Speaker 1: such a horrible idea. It's really interesting that like having

847
00:53:56,040 --> 00:53:59,520
Speaker 1: a little a life sperm bag when your back is

848
00:53:59,560 --> 00:54:04,120
Speaker 1: basically they should be worth um shouting off like at

849
00:54:04,200 --> 00:54:06,400
Speaker 1: least half of your immune system and like your defense

850
00:54:06,440 --> 00:54:11,040
Speaker 1: against any sort of like really serious infection. Unlike you,

851
00:54:11,120 --> 00:54:15,360
Speaker 1: I'm gonna pretend I know a lot about anglerfish. Um.

852
00:54:15,520 --> 00:54:20,000
Speaker 1: I wonder if it's because they're deep sea living fish,

853
00:54:20,120 --> 00:54:23,720
Speaker 1: so they don't have to fight off as many pathogens

854
00:54:23,840 --> 00:54:28,319
Speaker 1: as they would have to in a more nutrient rich environment.

855
00:54:28,520 --> 00:54:32,319
Speaker 1: So you know, in that makes sense, the deep sea,

856
00:54:32,400 --> 00:54:35,319
Speaker 1: it does. It can host a lot of things. I mean, obviously,

857
00:54:35,960 --> 00:54:40,120
Speaker 1: bacteria flourishes near deep sea events, these these hot vents

858
00:54:40,160 --> 00:54:43,040
Speaker 1: that have there, like these little pockets in the deep

859
00:54:43,080 --> 00:54:46,120
Speaker 1: sea that do have a lot of nutrients, but uh,

860
00:54:46,360 --> 00:54:48,600
Speaker 1: in certain parts of the deep sea, it's kind of

861
00:54:48,640 --> 00:54:51,520
Speaker 1: like a nutrient desert, so you have to have all

862
00:54:51,560 --> 00:54:55,759
Speaker 1: these clever adaptations to even get a meal. So anglerfish

863
00:54:55,800 --> 00:55:00,799
Speaker 1: have that wonderful bioluminescent bulb that will draw prey to them,

864
00:55:00,800 --> 00:55:04,359
Speaker 1: because it's so hard to go and hunt prey when

865
00:55:04,400 --> 00:55:09,120
Speaker 1: you have these this very like spartan area of the ocean.

866
00:55:09,160 --> 00:55:13,960
Speaker 1: So I'm wondering if the only reason that they can

867
00:55:14,080 --> 00:55:16,879
Speaker 1: just survive on the innate immune system is that there

868
00:55:16,920 --> 00:55:21,400
Speaker 1: aren't as many pathogens, as many viruses that are able

869
00:55:21,440 --> 00:55:27,120
Speaker 1: to spread from h from animal to animal or you know,

870
00:55:27,200 --> 00:55:33,000
Speaker 1: around in this very desolate environment of the deep ocean.

871
00:55:34,480 --> 00:55:38,280
Speaker 1: So so basically, to never get sick, don't have contact

872
00:55:38,280 --> 00:55:40,960
Speaker 1: with other living beings. And then, I mean, that's what

873
00:55:41,080 --> 00:55:47,120
Speaker 1: we've learned right over the past two years. So every

874
00:55:47,200 --> 00:55:52,400
Speaker 1: week we do a Mystery animal sound game where I

875
00:55:52,680 --> 00:55:57,239
Speaker 1: play an animal sound and you all out there try

876
00:55:57,280 --> 00:56:01,000
Speaker 1: to guess what the heck is talking. Philip, you want

877
00:56:01,000 --> 00:56:06,080
Speaker 1: to play along this week. That sounds amazing. So first

878
00:56:06,120 --> 00:56:09,680
Speaker 1: we've got to reveal the mystery animal sound from last week.

879
00:56:09,880 --> 00:56:14,200
Speaker 1: So the hint from last week was not so fast.

880
00:56:14,520 --> 00:56:17,600
Speaker 1: This isn't who you think it is, and here is

881
00:56:17,640 --> 00:56:32,560
Speaker 1: the sound. So who do you think that is? Philip? Oh,

882
00:56:32,560 --> 00:56:36,480
Speaker 1: my god, like some kind of bird, but like, yeah,

883
00:56:37,280 --> 00:56:39,400
Speaker 1: not no idea of beyond that, because it sounds like

884
00:56:39,440 --> 00:56:42,000
Speaker 1: a baby chick. Right, it sounds like a little little

885
00:56:42,000 --> 00:56:46,080
Speaker 1: baby chicken or a baby bird, but it is in

886
00:56:46,280 --> 00:56:55,359
Speaker 1: fact a cheetah. Huh yeah, oh yeah, right, okay, like interesting, right,

887
00:56:55,480 --> 00:56:59,560
Speaker 1: Like what's wrong with it? It's got it? It swallowed

888
00:56:59,600 --> 00:57:01,560
Speaker 1: a bird it and it's trying to escape out of

889
00:57:01,560 --> 00:57:05,759
Speaker 1: the cheetah. No. So cheetahs are really interesting because of

890
00:57:05,800 --> 00:57:10,160
Speaker 1: the big cats. They have very cute little vocalizations. So

891
00:57:10,760 --> 00:57:16,400
Speaker 1: cheetahs don't roar, and they're actually one of the few

892
00:57:16,520 --> 00:57:22,959
Speaker 1: big cats that purr because the that um the same

893
00:57:23,040 --> 00:57:26,360
Speaker 1: sort of vocal chord system that allows lions to roar

894
00:57:26,520 --> 00:57:31,560
Speaker 1: actually would prevent them from uh purring. So cheetahs don't roar,

895
00:57:31,800 --> 00:57:34,640
Speaker 1: but they purr, and they make all sorts of adorable

896
00:57:34,720 --> 00:57:39,240
Speaker 1: vocalizations like chirps, which can be used by a mother

897
00:57:39,400 --> 00:57:41,960
Speaker 1: to kind of locate it it's young, or let it's

898
00:57:42,000 --> 00:57:45,160
Speaker 1: young know where it is, or by by siblings to

899
00:57:45,280 --> 00:57:47,680
Speaker 1: kind of give each other heads up of where they are.

900
00:57:49,000 --> 00:57:54,640
Speaker 1: And uh, yeah they are. They make adorable little baby

901
00:57:54,680 --> 00:57:57,680
Speaker 1: bird noises even though they are one of the fastest

902
00:57:57,760 --> 00:58:02,080
Speaker 1: predators in the world. So definitely shocking to hear that

903
00:58:02,200 --> 00:58:06,640
Speaker 1: coming out of a big cat like a cheetah. Congratulations

904
00:58:06,680 --> 00:58:09,080
Speaker 1: to this week's winners of the animal sound game who

905
00:58:09,120 --> 00:58:12,560
Speaker 1: wrote me in the fastest, get it fast because you

906
00:58:12,600 --> 00:58:18,440
Speaker 1: know Jeeta's Abigail m ri Ellen Keegan, y'all guess correctly.

907
00:58:19,560 --> 00:58:22,320
Speaker 1: I got a lot of correct guesses. The good job everyone,

908
00:58:22,320 --> 00:58:27,440
Speaker 1: You guys are so smart. So now onto this week's

909
00:58:27,560 --> 00:58:33,360
Speaker 1: mystery animal sound. So the hint for this week's sound

910
00:58:33,720 --> 00:58:36,920
Speaker 1: is this may sound like a herd of goats, but

911
00:58:37,000 --> 00:58:39,320
Speaker 1: if you try to milk these guys, you're gonna have

912
00:58:39,400 --> 00:58:56,640
Speaker 1: a bad time. Is that it's some kind of some

913
00:58:56,800 --> 00:59:00,040
Speaker 1: kind of insect. Well, I can't tell you because I

914
00:59:00,080 --> 00:59:03,360
Speaker 1: will reveal the answer to this week's guts, Who's talk

915
00:59:03,480 --> 00:59:09,000
Speaker 1: and game next Wednesday. So Philip, thank you so much

916
00:59:09,080 --> 00:59:12,280
Speaker 1: for joining me today and taking us on a tour

917
00:59:12,640 --> 00:59:16,480
Speaker 1: of the wonderful, wacky world of immune systems. So let's

918
00:59:16,480 --> 00:59:19,720
Speaker 1: tell people about where they can find your book Immune

919
00:59:20,400 --> 00:59:22,919
Speaker 1: and where they can find some of your other work. Well,

920
00:59:22,960 --> 00:59:25,600
Speaker 1: thanks for having me. Yeah, you can get my book,

921
00:59:26,280 --> 00:59:30,000
Speaker 1: which is called Immune Journey into this mysterious system that

922
00:59:30,080 --> 00:59:35,120
Speaker 1: keeps you alive. I guess everywhere where you can get books. Um,

923
00:59:35,160 --> 00:59:37,840
Speaker 1: and I personally don't have social media, so you can't

924
00:59:37,840 --> 00:59:41,680
Speaker 1: find me anywhere, but you can see my work on

925
00:59:41,680 --> 00:59:47,200
Speaker 1: our YouTube channel Za Nutshell, which is on YouTube. I

926
00:59:47,280 --> 00:59:50,280
Speaker 1: highly recommend it if you want to learn about things

927
00:59:50,360 --> 00:59:54,280
Speaker 1: and really fun and the animate. I'm a little bit

928
00:59:54,280 --> 00:59:58,200
Speaker 1: of an animation nerd and it's absolutely gorgeous animation and

929
00:59:58,480 --> 01:00:02,640
Speaker 1: really clear, really nice explanations for things. It's also weirdly

930
01:00:02,680 --> 01:00:07,320
Speaker 1: relaxing to learn. So I really love that channel. Um yeah,

931
01:00:07,400 --> 01:00:09,640
Speaker 1: so check that out. Check out that book Immune if

932
01:00:09,720 --> 01:00:12,200
Speaker 1: you want to learn more about them. And uh yeah,

933
01:00:12,200 --> 01:00:15,520
Speaker 1: thanks so much for listening. Uh. If you think you

934
01:00:15,600 --> 01:00:18,800
Speaker 1: have an answer to this week's mry animal sound game,

935
01:00:19,000 --> 01:00:23,320
Speaker 1: or you want to write in questions concerns, uh pictures

936
01:00:23,320 --> 01:00:26,240
Speaker 1: of your immune system. Wait, don't do that, don't do that,

937
01:00:27,120 --> 01:00:30,120
Speaker 1: write me at creature feature pod at gmail dot com,

938
01:00:30,240 --> 01:00:34,440
Speaker 1: Creature feature Pot at Instagram, creat your feet pot on Twitter.

939
01:00:34,520 --> 01:00:36,680
Speaker 1: That's f e a T, not f e ET. That

940
01:00:36,920 --> 01:00:40,000
Speaker 1: is something very different. And if you're enjoying the show

941
01:00:40,080 --> 01:00:43,640
Speaker 1: and you leave a rating or review, that is really wonderful.

942
01:00:43,720 --> 01:00:46,920
Speaker 1: I appreciate all the reviews. I read them all. I

943
01:00:47,160 --> 01:00:49,160
Speaker 1: take note of what you guys are saying to help

944
01:00:49,160 --> 01:00:51,560
Speaker 1: improve the show, and of course it also helps with

945
01:00:51,680 --> 01:00:56,400
Speaker 1: the algorithms. We must all obey the algorithms. All hail

946
01:00:56,560 --> 01:01:00,160
Speaker 1: the algorithms. And thanks so much to the space plas

947
01:01:00,200 --> 01:01:03,480
Speaker 1: six for their super awesome song x Alumina. Creature features

948
01:01:03,480 --> 01:01:06,440
Speaker 1: a production of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts like

949
01:01:06,520 --> 01:01:08,920
Speaker 1: the one you just heard, visit the I heart Radio app,

950
01:01:08,960 --> 01:01:11,480
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or Hey guess what where have you listen

951
01:01:11,520 --> 01:01:14,080
Speaker 1: to your favorite shows? See you next Wednesday.