Speaker 1: Welcome to the solid verbo.
Speaker 2: I'll that for me.
Speaker 3: I'm a man, I'm forty.
Speaker 4: I've heard so many players say, well, I want to
Speaker 4: be happy.
Speaker 1: You want to be happy for Dake Edo State?
Speaker 4: Is that?
Speaker 2: Whoo whoom?
Speaker 1: And Dan and Tie welcome back to the solid verbal
Speaker 1: boys and girls. My name is Ty Hildebrand. Joinning me
Speaker 1: from away over there and beautiful in sunny in southern California,
Speaker 1: raving out the pandemic in that California. Son, my man,
Speaker 1: Dan Rubisteine, Sir, how are you?
Speaker 2: Ty?
Speaker 4: It's raining at the moment, but spirits remain sunny inside
Speaker 4: my heart and soul. Because one, I'm connected with you
Speaker 4: to talk about another weird, fun, interesting, large game from
Speaker 4: college football lore or whatever word I'm looking for. And
Speaker 4: two I'm I'm okay. You know, I can't complain. This
Speaker 4: is a it's a strange time, but I'm happy to
Speaker 4: be doing this. And I have a lot of thoughts,
Speaker 4: not just about the two thousand and three BCS Championship
Speaker 4: game between Miami and Ohio State, but just the two
Speaker 4: thousand and two season in general, the context of what
Speaker 4: was going on during the college football season and the
Speaker 4: world at large, and I got to tell you Tie
Speaker 4: before you start plugging away at various places that you
Speaker 4: can find us doing other things.
Speaker 1: The teas here is, I was furious.
Speaker 4: This game going back on YouTube and rewatching this game
Speaker 4: because everybody remembers the game basically for I guess two
Speaker 4: reasons because of something really really bad if you just
Speaker 4: like the human body, and two really really bad if
Speaker 4: you don't like to see controversy and a huge college
Speaker 4: football game. But in fact, everything about this game and
Speaker 4: season was a lot larger than that, and I am
Speaker 4: very excited Tye to get into it with you.
Speaker 1: All Right, Well, we'll get to Dan's furious Bradley in
Speaker 1: just a moment, but before we go any further, don't
Speaker 1: forget to follow us out there on Twitter, on Instagram,
Speaker 1: on Facebook. We started doing some video stuff. We're going
Speaker 1: to continue doing some video stuff. Obviously. Those social media
Speaker 1: channels is where you can find out about it. First.
Speaker 1: If you haven't subscribed to the podcast, you can do
Speaker 1: so anywhere you get your podcasts, And if you want
Speaker 1: to participate in a conversation with other verballers, you can
Speaker 1: do so at solid Verbal dot reddit dot com. The
Speaker 1: subreddit commandeered by our good friend Peter Hoffman, who does
Speaker 1: such a good job keeping that conversation going. As Dan said,
Speaker 1: today we are hopping in the DeLorean setting the date
Speaker 1: for January third, two thousand and three. It was the
Speaker 1: two thousand and three Tostitos Fiesta Bowl. It doubled as
Speaker 1: the BCS National Championship game between Miami and Ohio State.
Speaker 1: Interestingly enough, January third was a Friday in two thousand
Speaker 1: and three, Dan.
Speaker 4: I like that It's a date night college football tie,
Speaker 4: a little after New Year's Maybe the hangovers have worn off,
Speaker 4: and you get some takeout, you grab some beers, and
Speaker 4: you watch the National Championship on a Friday night. I
Speaker 4: don't hate it. It's not going to be good. It's
Speaker 4: not gonna be as good for ratings as a Monday
Speaker 4: night game.
Speaker 1: But I sort of liked that. Where were you in
Speaker 1: life on January third, two thousand and three, So.
Speaker 4: I would have been in the middle of my sophomore
Speaker 4: year of college, and more specifically geographically, I was on
Speaker 4: winter break and watching this game from the bedroom of
Speaker 4: an ex girlfriend who was in the room. I don't
Speaker 4: think she was even in the room. I don't think
Speaker 4: she cared about Big East football. But it was on
Speaker 4: one of those small combo TV VCRs. So this is
Speaker 4: squarely for everybody pretty much PREHD, but especially for me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's at four x three magic right there. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: I was watching this game in my friend Dave's baby.
Speaker 1: We called it the Dave Cave at the time. It
Speaker 1: was beautiful. Shout out Dave Cave. Shout out Dave k
Speaker 1: had a pool table, had a poker table. I was
Speaker 1: in the middle of my junior year up at Penn State.
Speaker 1: Everyone was home on break and I remember watching this game.
Speaker 1: Like you, I was a huge college football fan, right,
Speaker 1: you got to be to do a show like this
Speaker 1: for as long as we have, but it was a
Speaker 1: formative moment for me when Willis McGahee got hurt.
Speaker 4: Yeah, we've had some tough, major televised injuries, and that
Speaker 4: was one of the first I could remember. Obviously, we
Speaker 4: had the Louisville basketball one a few years ago. I
Speaker 4: remember one at USC Ryan Podrell and an ankle, but
Speaker 4: on a stage like this, and you know, going back,
Speaker 4: I was not old enough for Joe Thaisman in the eighties,
Speaker 4: but on a stage like this with the replays that
Speaker 4: were shown, and we'll get to this when we get
Speaker 4: to the fourth quarter. It's a rough television tie, and
Speaker 4: thank god it was an HD. Thank god rough television.
Speaker 4: It felt like it was CGI and not real life.
Speaker 4: I remember that.
Speaker 1: Injury seventeen years later like it was yesterday, and it
Speaker 1: had an impact on me. It really did. It was
Speaker 1: sort of like the first time I feel like I
Speaker 1: had seen an injury that was quite as gruesome as that,
Speaker 1: and it just stuck with me. Not to mention all
Speaker 1: the build up to this game and Miami entering this
Speaker 1: game as this gorilla and Ohio State being a really
Speaker 1: good team. There was all this pomp and circumstance around
Speaker 1: this football game. But that McGahee injury. We'll get into,
Speaker 1: as you said, the fourth quarter here momentarily and talk
Speaker 1: a little bit more about it. It was called by
Speaker 1: Keith Jackson the Legend and Dan Fouts as the color commentator.
Speaker 1: Lynn Swan and Todd Harris down on the sidelines. Also
Speaker 1: had John Saunders and Terry Bowden working as studio hosts
Speaker 1: in this football game.
Speaker 4: Dan An All Pacific Northwest Booth, Keith Jackson, Wazoo, Dan
Speaker 4: Fouts Oregon. I like that didn't even realize that until
Speaker 4: just now, and pregame was a little dated. We can
Speaker 4: get into the broadcast and what we sort of gleaned
Speaker 4: from everything during the game, but I think it was
Speaker 4: a Cal Ripkin junior coin toss. I think cal Ripken.
Speaker 4: I don't know what his stats were at this time,
Speaker 4: but it feels like he was still active. I could
Speaker 4: not tell you when cal Ripkin retired.
Speaker 2: Tie.
Speaker 4: You could have told me two thousand and six. You
Speaker 4: could tell me twenty fourteen he would still start for
Speaker 4: the Orioles. Let's be honest.
Speaker 1: Are they bad? Okay?
Speaker 4: Yeah, before we get into the game itself and the pregame,
Speaker 4: and I'm sure there's terrible music going into this game.
Speaker 4: These two programs are two very different points. Even though
Speaker 4: they're both undefeated and the clear choice for this national
Speaker 4: championship game, Ohio State is sort of an upstart. The
Speaker 4: John Cooper era was fine for a long stretch, but
Speaker 4: he goes to ten and one against Gary Mueller, Lloyd
Speaker 4: Carr and Michigan and Miami is the defending national champion.
Speaker 4: You mentioned them, the big gorilla in the stadium, and
Speaker 4: they just run away from Nebraska the year before Nebraska
Speaker 4: team that, Let's be honest, should not have even been
Speaker 4: in the game. Nobody looks back. It's on the at
Speaker 4: Nebraska was the right selection there. No, they shouldn't have
Speaker 4: been in the game, and they played like it. Against Miami,
Speaker 4: Miami just trounced them. And then throughout the year, Miami
Speaker 4: had a couple close calls pitt Florida State that was
Speaker 4: a wide left game for Miami in that win. And
Speaker 4: Ohio State is sort of eking by teams as they
Speaker 4: learn to win. It's sort of a crawl before you walk,
Speaker 4: walk before you run, and they're just learning to win,
Speaker 4: but they're pulling out close ones.
Speaker 1: You have the Holy.
Speaker 4: Buckeye game against Purdue to Michael Jenkins, a fourth down
Speaker 4: crazy pass from Craig Crenzl to Michael Jenkins, and I
Speaker 4: think there were a couple of Wisconsin was a close one.
Speaker 4: They just they have this very I want to say
Speaker 4: lro season. That's how I would have described this team
Speaker 4: and this program going into the game. If we had
Speaker 4: a show back then.
Speaker 1: For It's fair four games in the two thousand and
Speaker 1: two regular season where Ohio State won and did not
Speaker 1: score twenty points nineteen to fourteen at Wisconsin, thirteen to
Speaker 1: seven at home, over Penn State ten to six, and
Speaker 1: a bit of a miracle game on the road in
Speaker 1: West Lafayette over Purdue, and fourteen to nine at home
Speaker 1: in the game over the Michigan Wolverines. So, you know,
Speaker 1: one thing that came to mind for me as I
Speaker 1: did the research here was like, can you imagine a
Speaker 1: situation in which Ohio State would win four games and
Speaker 1: not score twenty points in twenty twenty? Like, that's incomprehensible
Speaker 1: to me given where we're at in college football right now.
Speaker 1: There were a lot of things, by the way that
Speaker 1: I saw in this game that I can't fathom being
Speaker 1: part of the current day and age, but not scoring
Speaker 1: more than twenty points and still winning seemed like, whoa,
Speaker 1: that's that's a different era altogether.
Speaker 4: Yeah, we've seen close calls. We've seen teams that generally
Speaker 4: generate a lot of points and go on to this
Speaker 4: caliber of season have those down games where they win
Speaker 4: seventeen fourteen or ten twelve, or obviously famously nine to six.
Speaker 4: But four times is a lot of times to eke
Speaker 4: it out against not great competition. That year in the
Speaker 4: Big Ten, there was certainly talent. If you look around
Speaker 4: the conference Ohio State didn't have electric players on offense,
Speaker 4: perhaps outside of Maurice claret Craig Crenzel wasn't the reason
Speaker 4: Ohio State was winning. It was you know, Chris Gamble
Speaker 4: was probably a big reason because he was going both ways.
Speaker 4: But this was not an Ohio State team with the
Speaker 4: type of talent. And I'm sure you have who went
Speaker 4: on to the NFL in this game right in front
Speaker 4: of you, but this was not This was not an
Speaker 4: offense that led the way for Ohio State. You look
Speaker 4: at the Big Ten that year and you know, huge names.
Speaker 4: Larry Johnson at Penn State led the way for the
Speaker 4: Nitney Lions. Charles Rogers was you know, borderline unguardable from
Speaker 4: Michigan State.
Speaker 1: Yeah, incredible at Michigan State. Yeah.
Speaker 4: Brad Banks to Dallas Clark at Iowa, Anthony Davis at Wisconsin.
Speaker 4: They're you know, big names, big yardage, big points, and
Speaker 4: Ohio State players. Even though Maurice Clarett was both really
Speaker 4: really good, he was also a workhorse. He wasn't a
Speaker 4: home run hitter every week, but even when he wasn't,
Speaker 4: he was churning out first downs and helping to pace
Speaker 4: this offense. And if not for Maurice Clarett. They definitely
Speaker 4: lose at least one game.
Speaker 1: Oh for sure. We'll get into clarette here. Yeah, as
Speaker 1: we talk about this specific game. As you said, though,
Speaker 1: there was a ton of talent on the field for
Speaker 1: this particular game. And I got this from the Columbus
Speaker 1: Post dispatch. Forty three starters that night, and you double
Speaker 1: count Chris Gamble obviously because he played both ways. Thirty
Speaker 1: seven of them were chosen in some NFL draft, not
Speaker 1: all the same one, but eighty six percent chosen in
Speaker 1: the NFL draft, and a bunch of backups in this
Speaker 1: football game were also chosen. I think one hundred people
Speaker 1: participated in this football game. Fifty eight of them played
Speaker 1: in at least one NFL game, and eighteen of them
Speaker 1: went on to be first round draft picks. So you know,
Speaker 1: Will Smith, Chris Gamble, Michael Jenkins, AJ Hawk, and Bobby
Speaker 1: Carpenter were young but on those teams, as well as
Speaker 1: Nick Mangold, who had a cup of coffee in this
Speaker 1: football game along the offensive line. But everyone knows about
Speaker 1: Miami when they think about talent in this day and age,
Speaker 1: Andre Johnson, Sean Taylor, Kellen Winslow, Jonathan Vilma, Vince Wilfork,
Speaker 1: who's a monster college.
Speaker 4: By the way, Matt Wilford in this game is a
Speaker 4: rotation player, doesn't start. The best modern nos tackle in
Speaker 4: football doesn't even start in this game.
Speaker 1: And he's young.
Speaker 4: I think he's a freshman this year. He's early on
Speaker 4: in his Miami career, but he's inserted early on and
Speaker 4: makes like three enormous players like, oh, it's just a
Speaker 4: rotation nose tackle for Miami.
Speaker 1: Yeah, cool cool.
Speaker 4: Also Entrell Roll, Yeah, I mean that second general, Kelly
Speaker 4: Jennings Andrell Roland, Sean Taylor in the Miami secondary throwing
Speaker 4: into that even if you're more talented and more accomplished
Speaker 4: than Craig Krenzel. Not super fun sounding tie.
Speaker 1: No, no, no no. Miami came into this game though,
Speaker 1: in a much different situation. They were defending national champions right, Yes, they're.
Speaker 4: Defending national champs and by and large, and I mentioned this,
Speaker 4: they kill a lot of teams. They beat up on
Speaker 4: Virginia Tech. That's their final game of the season. I
Speaker 4: think they dropped fifty or sixty points and just demolish them.
Speaker 4: Willis mcgahee's starting in the backfield. Ken Dorsey by the way,
Speaker 4: great Tom Hammond game, because I think Dorsey was a
Speaker 4: double major and Craig Krenzel was molecular biology.
Speaker 1: So you would have brought up that molecular biology major
Speaker 1: and GPA Todd Harris during this game and during the
Speaker 1: broadcast had a little quip, a little quip about this
Speaker 1: that was very hammid esk but he was just a
Speaker 1: sideline reporter at the time. Brought that up doublet game
Speaker 1: on the line, of course, that's when he would have
Speaker 1: brought that up.
Speaker 4: Yeah. So, yeah, there was the cast of characters. The
Speaker 4: cast of characters in this game was exceptional. The broadcast,
Speaker 4: I think got started out with Limp Biscuits rolling, rolling, Rolling.
Speaker 1: Yep, you had a wonderful highlight package of two very
Speaker 1: successful seasons by Miami and Ohio State laid down on
Speaker 1: a comfy bed of rollin by Limp Biscuit. Yeah, so
Speaker 1: there was there was suitable hype. There was.
Speaker 4: You know, obviously when you have Keith Jackson Dan Fouts
Speaker 4: in this air in the booth, that's a big deal.
Speaker 4: No no controversy going into this game. It wasn't the
Speaker 4: following year, I believe, when Auburn goes undefeated and is
Speaker 4: left out. It was Miami and Ohio State both undefeated.
Speaker 4: Iowa finishes eleven and one. That's the Brad Banks team.
Speaker 4: They end up losing to USC in the Orange Bowl.
Speaker 4: Usc As Carson Palmer who wins the Heisman. David Green
Speaker 4: is in one of his eleven seasons for Georgia. Darren
Speaker 4: Sprowl's completely wrecking shop. For Kansas State, they finished in
Speaker 4: the top ten. Jason Gesser and Wazoo, Chris Sims in
Speaker 4: Texas I mentioned Larry Johnson and Penn State. Notre Dame
Speaker 4: wins ten games this season.
Speaker 1: Hi, they won ten games and then got destroyed by
Speaker 1: Philip Rivers. I want to say in NC State and
Speaker 1: the Gator Bowl. Okay, fair enough, it was a good
Speaker 1: year actually for quarterbacks. The Oregon team that I want
Speaker 1: to say, they went six and six, seven and five
Speaker 1: something like that. They end up in the Seattle Bowl tie.
Speaker 1: I'm sure you have a lot of precious Seattle Bowl memory.
Speaker 1: We all remember our first Seattle Bowl.
Speaker 4: They got beaten pretty handily by Wake Forest in the
Speaker 4: Seattle Bowl. They lost, God, they lost comfortably I think
Speaker 4: to Oregon State. In the Civil War, this was it
Speaker 4: was a Jason Fife taking over for Joey Harrington year
Speaker 4: and outside Ontario Smith, mister Wizzenader himself was the highlight
Speaker 4: of this Oregon team, but not a fun year to
Speaker 4: be a Duck fan.
Speaker 1: Specifically with regard to this football game. Miami and Ohio
Speaker 1: State descended upon Sun Devil Stadium for the Fiesta Ball.
Speaker 1: At the time, this was long before we had the
Speaker 1: stadium in Glendale and they were competing for the Circuit
Speaker 1: City BCS Trophy. Daniel, hell yeah, Circuit City Hell yeah.
Speaker 1: Or service to the State of the Art. We also had
Speaker 1: a PlayStation two team comparison graphic that Dan Fouts was
Speaker 1: happy to commentate over.
Speaker 4: Did you ever see Will Ferrell's Dan Fouts Dan Fouts
Speaker 4: Will Ferreld Dan shouts and it's incredible. It's he's just
Speaker 4: he plays Dan Fouts as if Dan Fouts is just coasting.
Speaker 1: Just he's like, that's right. Was this the skit where
Speaker 1: he talked about like the team that has the most
Speaker 1: points is going to win the game? Yeah? I think so.
Speaker 1: I think it was just the most generic by the book. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was great. So looking back now, just from a
Speaker 1: big picture twenty twenty perspective, Yeah, what are some of
Speaker 1: your observations of not Miami and Ohio State and the
Speaker 1: way this game shook out, but just the game of football.
Speaker 4: So this is right ahead of the sort of beginning
Speaker 4: of the mainstream spread revolution. What Urban Meyer is doing
Speaker 4: at Utah, we have some early air raidingis with Cliff
Speaker 4: Kingsbury as the quarterback, I think completes almost five hundred passes.
Speaker 4: In second place was like three hundred and fifty. So
Speaker 4: we're seeing the slow you're seeing, you know, the percolation,
Speaker 4: some sizzling bubbles of modern offense. You know Rex Grossman
Speaker 4: at Florida, they're opening things up. Obviously still in the
Speaker 4: fun and gun. This is I think right ahead of
Speaker 4: the ron Zook era. Timmy Chang and Hawaii are throwing
Speaker 4: the ball all around, so there is at least there
Speaker 4: are early bubbles of modernization. But what Ohio State does
Speaker 4: to get here is defense and ball control and trying
Speaker 4: to not turn the ball over. And what Miami does
Speaker 4: to get here is relying on its incredible stable of talent.
Speaker 4: And it worked for both of them getting here. But
Speaker 4: ultimately what made me furious was probably the word discipline
Speaker 4: or lack thereof, when you actually watch the game.
Speaker 1: I was blown away by how big the players were. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it feels like the players were bigger, at least wearing
Speaker 1: bigger pads. Yeah, the pads were huge. The pads made
Speaker 1: them all look squared off, like they were Abrams tanks.
Speaker 1: It was ridiculous. But maybe because it was pre spread
Speaker 1: era and defensive players didn't need to be as versatile
Speaker 1: and agile, maybe they could be bigger. I don't know,
Speaker 1: but it it felt like these guys were bigger. There
Speaker 1: was certainly no targeting, But that being said, the thing
Speaker 1: that really stood out was just how enormous everyone looked.
Speaker 1: Matt Wilhelm for like, he looked like a perfect sphere
Speaker 1: with all the padding he had, hit the neck roll,
Speaker 1: gigantic shoulder pads, a bunch of Michelin men out there.
Speaker 1: I mean, you mentioned PS two tie.
Speaker 4: If you remember was it NFL game day, was that
Speaker 4: one of the big that was an NFL game day
Speaker 4: was the game where you could just loft it up right,
Speaker 4: But if you remember what the players in that game
Speaker 4: look like, they looked like tanks. They were all squared
Speaker 4: off and it wasn't unrealistic. That was just the look.
Speaker 1: This was back before Jim Tressel was gray. It was
Speaker 1: what his second year at Ohio State, second year for
Speaker 1: both head coaches, much like the last game we did. Actually, Yeah,
Speaker 1: had a little bit of a Ned Flanders feel to him,
Speaker 1: didn't he. I don't think it was just limited to this.
Speaker 1: I mean he didn't have the mustache, but he had
Speaker 1: the sweater, he had the Koif hair, sort of blatter
Speaker 1: boy air about him, the glasses, that's true, but very
Speaker 1: proper on the sidelines, and had led a very successful
Speaker 1: campaign to that point. What was your take on this
Speaker 1: football game?
Speaker 2: Dan?
Speaker 1: How did you feel watching this after all these years?
Speaker 4: I actually was really entertained, even though it made me
Speaker 4: furious and there were things that I didn't like about it.
Speaker 4: The Craig Krenzell thing annoyed me. The fact that the
Speaker 4: fact that I had to sit through a national championship
Speaker 4: game watching Craig Crenzell attempt to run an offense was rough.
Speaker 1: Craig Krenzel led the team in rushing. He had eighty
Speaker 1: one yards. He had more rushing yardage than Maurice Clorette.
Speaker 4: I kept thinking when watching the Ohio State offense that
Speaker 4: Craig Krenzel looks like what I would look like if
Speaker 4: you were like to put me in charge of a
Speaker 4: chili's without any notice, put me in charge of a
Speaker 4: jamba juice where it's just like, I don't know where
Speaker 4: the strawberries are. I don't know where you plug in
Speaker 4: the blenders. I'm gonna smash all these peaches and kiwis
Speaker 4: and put them in a cup. I understand that's not
Speaker 4: what a smooth he's supposed to look like, but I'm
Speaker 4: just doing what I can. That's what the Craig crensil
Speaker 4: experience felt like to me.
Speaker 1: But he so. He was nine for no. Seven for
Speaker 1: twenty one okay, and two interceptions. Not great as a thrower,
Speaker 1: but had eighty one yards on the ground and two touchdowns.
Speaker 1: And to his credit, he had some bigger moments in
Speaker 1: this game. It wasn't flawless by any stretch, but there
Speaker 1: were some big moments. We talk about often on the
Speaker 1: show how guys win moments. Crenzell won some moments in
Speaker 1: this game. Clarette won some moments in this game.
Speaker 4: So Ohio State stays in the game early without being
Speaker 4: able to do anything on offense, because early on Will
Speaker 4: Smith might be the best player on the field, He's unblockable.
Speaker 4: He's getting to Ken Dorsey, and the Miami offensive rhythm
Speaker 4: is totally off. He connects a little bit with Andre Johnson, who,
Speaker 4: by the way, Andre Johnson, a name may be lost
Speaker 4: to time because of the way his NFL career sort
Speaker 4: of ended pretty quickly, but Andre Johnson and I think
Speaker 4: it was Larry Fitzgerald played in the same game in
Speaker 4: the season as did Andre Johnson and Kwon Bolden for
Speaker 4: the Florida State game. He was unguardable in this game,
Speaker 4: and I'm sure he was unguardable all season long.
Speaker 1: And he couldn't. You couldn't guard Andrew Johnson. He was
Speaker 1: six I think they said six' three two fifteen to two. Twenty,
Speaker 1: yes maybe not. Totally i'm just, heavy but just unguardable
Speaker 1: in college.
Speaker 4: Unguardable AND i Thought Ohio state largely did a really
Speaker 4: good job of taking away the. Sidelines and this Is
Speaker 4: Mark dantonio calling The Ohio state. Defense they completely Stuff
Speaker 4: willis mcgahey and The miami running, game which really did pace.
Speaker 4: Them as good As Ken dorsey, was he was WHAT
Speaker 4: i think would be come to come to be known
Speaker 4: as a game, manager where it's just like get it
Speaker 4: To Kellen, winslow get it To Andre. Johnson just don't
Speaker 4: make mistakes and Let willis mcgahe pace. Things AND i
Speaker 4: don't know if you went back and watched any Of
Speaker 4: willis McGahee from two thousand and, two deceptive speed and
Speaker 4: would have thrived if he had come along really in any.
Speaker 4: Era but if he had played for a shotgun power
Speaker 4: running team in like twenty, fourteen he would have put
Speaker 4: up twenty three hundred. Yards he Was he was a downhill,
Speaker 4: runner and he was bigger THAN i.
Speaker 1: Remember cut and, go cut and. Go he was great at, That,
Speaker 1: yeah he. Was he was much bigger THAN i. Remember
Speaker 1: so it Was Clarette clarett was a big. Kid, yeah oh,
Speaker 1: friend you, know the shoulder pads made him look. Bigger
Speaker 1: but he was a big boy and had some moments
Speaker 1: in this. Game the final score here was thirty one
Speaker 1: to twenty, four went to double. Overtime i'm not going
Speaker 1: to lie and say that it was an exciting first
Speaker 1: maybe three quarters of this. Game it was a lot
Speaker 1: of defense and a lot of. Turnovers we had seven
Speaker 1: total turnovers in this, game five By. Miami perhaps that's
Speaker 1: why they lost to By Ohio. State the other thing
Speaker 1: THAT i did want to call Out, dan you Mentioned Craig.
Speaker 1: Crenzel Ken dorsey was thirty eight and one going into
Speaker 1: this football. Game oh they really did point In, yeah
Speaker 1: hammered that. Home AND i remember watching this game at
Speaker 1: the time, Thinking, Wow Ken dorsey's really, Underrated like he's
Speaker 1: not getting the kind of love he deserves FROM nfl
Speaker 1: scouts because he's been so good in college and this
Speaker 1: is somebody who's going to be a surefire pro for
Speaker 1: a long long he. Wasn't turns out the scouts are
Speaker 1: right About Ken. Dorsey and if you watched the first
Speaker 1: quarter of this, game AS i did before one of
Speaker 1: Our instagram live, feeds you came away pretty impressed With Ken.
Speaker 1: Dorsey the other three quarters not so much turn the
Speaker 1: ball over a bunch of. Times he had a good
Speaker 1: fourth quarter ish, yeah ish. YEAH a lot of unintentional
Speaker 1: back shoulder throws by both of these quarterbacks in this football.
Speaker 1: Game is that fair to?
Speaker 4: Say, Yeah, Well Ken dorsey's second quarter might. Be i'm
Speaker 4: not going to go through every quarterback who's played in
Speaker 4: A National championship game since two. Thousand Ken dorsey's second
Speaker 4: quarter two picks and a fumble stripsack? Fumble is that
Speaker 4: the worst from.
Speaker 1: A quarterback in the modern? Era modern ish modern?
Speaker 4: Era and by the, way the game is tied going
Speaker 4: into overtime at. Seventeen do you know how many Yards
Speaker 4: Ohio state had to put together to score seventeen points
Speaker 4: their combined scoring drive?
Speaker 1: Yardage what it? WAS i don't. Know i'm going to
Speaker 1: guess like one seventy.
Speaker 4: Five So Ohio state scores two touchdowns and they kick
Speaker 4: a field, goal a forty four yard field goal to
Speaker 4: get in position to score those. Points seventeen yard, drive
Speaker 4: fourteen yard, drive one yard. Drive, wow my rudimentary math
Speaker 4: says it's a thirty two yards of scoring yardage For
Speaker 4: Ohio state in this. Game good teams take advantage of.
Speaker 4: Opportunities Ohio state took advantage of. Opportunities miami gifted them this.
Speaker 4: Game and so if you are going to look back
Speaker 4: in this game and say THAT pi should never have
Speaker 4: been called and it, Was miami was.
Speaker 1: Robbed, no, no, no, NO i don't.
Speaker 4: Know miami gave this game away a lot earlier than
Speaker 4: arguably a referee. Did and so that's what made me,
Speaker 4: furious because When miami could move the. Ball it was
Speaker 4: largely down the middle From Ken dorsey And Kellen winslow
Speaker 4: had an amazing. Game AND i think we'll talk About
Speaker 4: Ken Kellen winslow With Bruce, feldman who was there and
Speaker 4: after we discussed this game, ourselves for his sort of full.
Speaker 4: Context but this game was taken From miami by Both
Speaker 4: miami and The Ohio state. Defense so that's why the
Speaker 4: in retrospect THAT pi changed, everything even THOUGH i don't
Speaker 4: think it WAS. Pi i'm not on board with that.
Speaker 1: Narrative, Okay, well you mentioned, defense AND i am on
Speaker 1: board with that. Narrative both defenses were, incredibly very very. Good,
Speaker 1: yeah and you need look no further than what both
Speaker 1: of these teams did on the. Ground so we talked about,
Speaker 1: McGahee we talked About clarett mcgaye had three point four
Speaker 1: yards per. Carry colorette had just two yards per. Carry
Speaker 1: clorette had some big moments in this football, game Which
Speaker 1: i'm going to bring up here just a little. Bit
Speaker 1: but the defenses were, very very stout in this football.
Speaker 1: Game Ken dorsey was under pressure the entire, game certainly
Speaker 1: as we got into. Overtime Craig krenzel was running for his.
Speaker 1: Life did you see the?
Speaker 4: Hits there was a graphic was like the number of
Speaker 4: knockdowns and sacks and hits Like Craig crenslatt deep into
Speaker 4: the fourth quarter had been hit like twenty eight. Times
Speaker 4: it was crazy over and it was a relentless. Pressure
Speaker 4: and the fact that he was able to stand in.
Speaker 4: There he took a hit From Jonathan, vilma which would
Speaker 4: have posted that On.
Speaker 1: Twitter Race. GAME i posted that On.
Speaker 4: Twitter Jonathan villma lifted it like he Lifted Craig crenzel so.
Speaker 4: High it was like a child being lifted to dunk
Speaker 4: his or her first basketball and driven into the. Ground
Speaker 4: the fact that he was able to keep getting. UP
Speaker 4: i JUST i tiped my audio hat To Craig krenzel
Speaker 4: because that's it's one of the guttiest performances from a
Speaker 4: quarterback on a.
Speaker 1: Stage this. Bick miami leads after the first quarter seven to.
Speaker 1: Zero Ohio state comes. Back they take advantage of some
Speaker 1: of those turnovers three turnovers again in the second. Quarter
Speaker 1: they score fourteen. Points they lead fourteen to seven going
Speaker 1: in at. Halftime as the teams come out in the second,
Speaker 1: Half miami draws a little bit. Closer after three, quarters
Speaker 1: they trail seventeen to. Fourteen, yeah a nice run from
Speaker 1: a game headed into the final stanza and Then miami
Speaker 1: kicks a field goal to tie it up at seventeen
Speaker 1: before we go into, overtime seventeen seventeen after four. QUARTERS
Speaker 1: i watched this game and was incredibly bored by those
Speaker 1: first four. Quarters it's it's tough not to.
Speaker 4: BE i mean the fact That Ohio state's offense was
Speaker 4: set up to just give the ball To Maurice claret
Speaker 4: without a lot of creativity and not Trusting Craig krenzel
Speaker 4: at one, point so that on the field goal drive
Speaker 4: where they got they had one yard of offense and
Speaker 4: they kick a forty four yard field Goal Mike, nugent
Speaker 4: by the, way come, ON nfl kicker for a long.
Speaker 4: Time third and twelve from The miami, thirty and you're, thinking,
Speaker 4: okay they just got a this is this is a big.
Speaker 4: Game you got to you gotta get a big play,
Speaker 4: here draw out of shotgun For Craig krenzel for like six.
Speaker 4: Yards it was Just you're, right it was a very
Speaker 4: boring because of those. Turnovers, NOW i will say one
Speaker 4: of The craig crenzil interceptions was such a terrible decision
Speaker 4: that if you're not entertained By Craig crenzel rolling out
Speaker 4: pump faking like three times then launching it forty yards
Speaker 4: down the field into double, coverage you don't like. Football
Speaker 4: you also don't like football if you can't Admire Sean
Speaker 4: taylor then tipping that ball to himself as he's falling,
Speaker 4: backwards as he's trained back all the. Time, yeah all
Speaker 4: time college football. Safety so at least we have some
Speaker 4: moments like. That you can pre s the talent of
Speaker 4: The Ohio state defense and especially that secondary With Chris
Speaker 4: gamble And Will, smith you, know looking unblockable upfront for The,
Speaker 4: Buckeyes but you have to appreciate individual moments more than
Speaker 4: you can the back and forth and the talent and
Speaker 4: the creativity and the punch counter punch, element because just
Speaker 4: wasn't really there.
Speaker 1: Well and this is part of what makes college football
Speaker 1: and the sport of football as a whole so unique
Speaker 1: in the world of. Sports, yeah the schemes were so,
Speaker 1: different so. Different when was the last time you saw
Speaker 1: A power five team run a pro set offense and
Speaker 1: the quarterback wasn't in the shock Like Ohio state did
Speaker 1: that multiple times in this football. Game it was just
Speaker 1: a different.
Speaker 4: Era we've seen it From stanford a little, recently but
Speaker 4: even they've evolved. Exactly so in looking back at this,
Speaker 4: game LIKE i remember all the scuttle butt about how
Speaker 4: this is one of the Great miami teams of all,
Speaker 4: time even a couple of years removed from the football,
Speaker 4: game not Just miami teams but teams in, general with
Speaker 4: all the talent they had on the, field and in watching,
Speaker 4: back it's just impossible to compare. Eras it's impossible because
Speaker 4: schemes are, different players were conditioned. Differently you almost can't
Speaker 4: compare this era Of miami football to any other football
Speaker 4: team that we see in the Modern, age what we
Speaker 4: call the Modern age now seventeen years, later because of
Speaker 4: how different the schemes. Were it was just a totally
Speaker 4: different football game to watch. Back and you, KNOW i
Speaker 4: GUESS i felt bad about the fact THAT i was
Speaker 4: bored watching, it but to a large EXTENT i. Was
Speaker 4: there was an extreme lack of creativity compared to what
Speaker 4: we're used to seeing On saturdays. Now SO i like
Speaker 4: to the, Defenses i'll come away and SAY i like the.
Speaker 4: Defenses and even though there is you, know watching what
Speaker 4: twenty twenty eyes isn't fair to this era at, all
Speaker 4: there was an element Of miami and this goes back
Speaker 4: to all of the success they had over THE i
Speaker 4: guess the fifteen years leading up to this. Game they
Speaker 4: were built around speed over. SIZE i think ahead of
Speaker 4: a lot of other. Teams they had, normal you, know
Speaker 4: guys who were the size of safeties playing. Linebacker they
Speaker 4: had some guys who are typically the size of linebackers
Speaker 4: playing defensive. End they were built around, speed and they
Speaker 4: looked like the more, Athletic they looked like the more
Speaker 4: confident team you. Watch you, Know Roscoe parrish who was
Speaker 4: the number two receiver Alongside Andre johnson Or Kellen winslow
Speaker 4: at his, size being as fast as he, Was miami
Speaker 4: building around speed was ahead of their. Time certainly they
Speaker 4: have the recruiting advantages of being In South, florida but
Speaker 4: speedover size was certainly something that you can, Say, Okay
Speaker 4: miami is the if not or is one of if
Speaker 4: not the pioneer about that. Notion and so THAT i
Speaker 4: came away with That we're just like it was a
Speaker 4: well called defense and it wasn't just one dude making
Speaker 4: a tackle in the open. Field there were so many
Speaker 4: fast dudes on That miami defense that they was just
Speaker 4: it was gang tag all over the. Place SO i
Speaker 4: will say that has held up really.
Speaker 1: Well before we go any, Further, dan what else was
Speaker 1: going on On january, third two thousand, three not just in,
Speaker 1: football but like, Culturally i'm glad you.
Speaker 4: ASKED i had a radio SHOW kwva on The Morning.
Speaker 4: Wood that Was Morning. Wood that was what it was.
Speaker 4: Called more broadly, speaking because we Mentioned Limp, biscuit the
Speaker 4: top song In america Is Lose. YOURSELF i MEAN i
Speaker 4: listened to it before every. Show, yeah it comes through tie.
Speaker 4: Work it From Missy, Misdemeanor Elliott Air Force. Ones it
Speaker 4: was a decent enough era for extremely dumb pop songs
Speaker 4: underneath it, all no. Doubt movie, wise it was actually
Speaker 4: a good Week lord of The rings Two, towers a
Speaker 4: Huge lord of The rings. Guy But i've seen. It it's,
Speaker 4: fine catch me if you can as an all timer for.
Speaker 4: Me that was number two two. Weeks, notice if you're
Speaker 4: in A Sandy bullock rom coms AND i Got Harry
Speaker 4: potter drum line Tie so It's, actually there's a college
Speaker 4: football ish movie in the top ten during the.
Speaker 1: Line was very. UNDERRATED i love that.
Speaker 2: Movie it was.
Speaker 4: Good Pete, pablo great. Job and we'll point Out Joe
Speaker 4: millionaire PREMIERED i think really close to this, game maybe
Speaker 4: like a week after On fox and that was a.
Speaker 1: Show, YEAH i love that. Show Evan. Marriott, yeah watched
Speaker 1: every second of. It so, yeah it was that was
Speaker 1: two thousand and three before we get into. Overtime, yeah
Speaker 1: who was the best player on the. Field i'm gonna
Speaker 1: Ask bruce when we have him, on but who was
Speaker 1: who was the best player on the? Field because there's
Speaker 1: like two different ways that you can look at. It
Speaker 1: you can look at it from a talent, perspective, right
Speaker 1: who just seemed like they had more? Talent Like Kellen
Speaker 1: winslow is a really a really strong. Answer Kellen winsoll
Speaker 1: was unguardable in this. Game he rose to the. Occasion,
Speaker 1: yeah you go with pure talent With Kellen winslow Or
Speaker 1: Andre johnson or Even Sean taylor who had what two
Speaker 1: INTERCEPTIONS i think in this, game or do you go
Speaker 1: to go with someone Like clarette who's very, good very,
Speaker 1: good but one moments didn't stand out with any kind
Speaker 1: of pyrotechnic offensive. Display but one Moment's Craig. Krenzel you,
Speaker 1: know seven of twenty one passing two, picks wasn't, great
Speaker 1: but led the team in rushing and won some moments
Speaker 1: in his own. Right which direction do you go with that,
Speaker 1: Question i'm gonna Go.
Speaker 4: Vilma i'm going to go the sort of heartbeat in
Speaker 4: the middle of That miami. Defense he was all over the.
Speaker 4: Place AND i Mentioned Craig crenzel taking the abuse that he.
Speaker 4: Did there were five shots From, vilma so he's all
Speaker 4: over the. Place they completely Stopped, clarette who had been
Speaker 4: the heartbeat of The Ohio state, offense and just in
Speaker 4: terms of pure talent and what he was asked to,
Speaker 4: do what he was asked to do in coverage and
Speaker 4: largely just Keeping miami focused on stopping the run From Ohio.
Speaker 4: State to, me that was the dude in the. Game
Speaker 4: Sean taylor made, plays certainly the early. On Will smith
Speaker 4: made a ton of plays and kept a ton of
Speaker 4: pressure on The miami offensive, line which Prevented Duck kanes
Speaker 4: from getting in any sort of. Rhythm BUT i think It's.
Speaker 4: Vilma looking back on the, game he was who really
Speaker 4: popped for me.
Speaker 1: From a talent, perspective the. ANSWERS i mean you could
Speaker 1: list a number of people For.
Speaker 4: MIAMI i mean Trust gamble, too but they just on,
Speaker 4: offense they weren't doing.
Speaker 1: Much Sean taylor stood out to. Me vilma had an incredible,
Speaker 1: game just was in the backfield the entire. Game BUT
Speaker 1: i THINK i Go corette. Here Interesting corette had to
Speaker 1: play of the game when he stripped an interception. Away
Speaker 1: yeah that was the second, half in the third. QUARTER
Speaker 1: i want to say he had some big runs, late
Speaker 1: even though he didn't have the stats to really back it.
Speaker 1: Up but LIKE i said, earlier was bigger THAN i.
Speaker 1: Remembered it really seemed to just find a couple key
Speaker 1: moments late in that game where he made his presence.
Speaker 1: Felt and he had a huge year that. Year you,
Speaker 1: Know Maurice colerette was a big. Name but in this,
Speaker 1: game in, particular the stats weren't, there the moments, were and,
Speaker 1: those to, me after watching back after all these, years
Speaker 1: those were really what stood out in a game, that
Speaker 1: for for again four quarters WAS i felt pretty.
Speaker 4: BORING i totally forgot about that, play the clarette. STRIPPING
Speaker 4: i think it was A miami's. SAFETY i don't REMEMBER
Speaker 4: i Was Sean taylor or. Not But Craig crenzel finally
Speaker 4: gets the ball downfield successfully and then the next, player
Speaker 4: the player a couple plays after, that throws a pick
Speaker 4: in the end. Zone brought out of the end zone
Speaker 4: forty fifty. Yards Maurice clorette is the one tackling the
Speaker 4: then ball carrier and strips him and gets the ball
Speaker 4: back For Ohio. State that was Just you're. Right it
Speaker 4: was probably the most impressive single play of the.
Speaker 1: Game so then we go to. Overtime the game is
Speaker 1: tied at. Seventeen, yeah and that's when this game gets really.
Speaker 1: Interesting we Had Ken dorsey getting hurt in double overtime
Speaker 1: after a shot From Matt. Wilhelm we had a backup
Speaker 1: From miami coming in to complete a pass to a full.
Speaker 1: Back no. Less but this, GAME i think for a
Speaker 1: great number of us who go back and watch or
Speaker 1: at least remember, it are going to remember a very
Speaker 1: controversial pass interference call that went Against miami And Glenn.
Speaker 1: Sharp was it or was it? Not pass?
Speaker 4: Interference, so AS i mentioned, EARLIER i think it WAS
Speaker 4: i think it WAS. PI i think the ball and
Speaker 4: who is THE dB Glenn? Sharp Glenn, SHARP i think
Speaker 4: My sharp and the ball arrived at the same, time
Speaker 4: AND i think it Was it was far too close
Speaker 4: in that moment to definitively. Call then it was, said,
Speaker 4: oh it was holding and it was a late. FLAG
Speaker 4: i thought it. Was it was really poorly. Done i'm
Speaker 4: not big on haranguing about, officials because a lot goes
Speaker 4: into a game beyond that just single. PLAY i thought it,
Speaker 4: was BUT i don't think it means that we should
Speaker 4: look back and Say miami was. Jobbed you turn the
Speaker 4: ball over five, times you have, opportunities so it's tough to.
Speaker 1: Win when you turn the ball over five, times and
Speaker 1: it just really don't deserve to. Win the fact that
Speaker 1: they were still in the game at that point in
Speaker 1: time totally a bit of a miracle unto. Itself but
Speaker 1: here's what. Happens it's fourth and. Three Craig krenzel tries
Speaker 1: to throw a ball To Chris. Gamble it bounces off his.
Speaker 1: Hands they call pass interference On Glenn. SHARP i don't
Speaker 1: think it was pass. Interference really really tough callah in
Speaker 1: that spot in the, Game but they get a fresh
Speaker 1: set of.
Speaker 4: Downs and by the, way by the, way The miami,
Speaker 4: sideline the flag came in so late and under the
Speaker 4: radar that The miami they rushed and started pouring onto
Speaker 4: the field in that, Moment, yeah.
Speaker 1: They rush the. Field Ohio state gets the ball, fresh
Speaker 1: set of. Downs Craig crenzel runs in for one yard.
Speaker 1: Touchdown third. Down, yeah ties the game up at twenty.
Speaker 1: Four in double over, time they get the ball. First
Speaker 1: in the next overtime, period they score a. Touchdown miami
Speaker 1: does not. Correct Maurice corrett scores a game when he.
Speaker 1: Touchdown that's all she, wrote thirty one two twenty. Four
Speaker 1: the winning streak is. Over Ohio state is your improbable national.
Speaker 4: Champion and on top of all of, that we have
Speaker 4: a moment in the fourth quarter that completely leaves you
Speaker 4: to this day and me to this day in a
Speaker 4: little bit of. Horror and It's willis McGahee and in
Speaker 4: what seems like an ordinary run and an ordinary, tackle
Speaker 4: he sort of has his legs taken out from underneath
Speaker 4: him by An Ohio state. Player is just. Wrecked his
Speaker 4: knee is completely. Destroyed it goes the wrong. Way he
Speaker 4: tears three, ligaments.
Speaker 1: A L mcl and.
Speaker 4: WHAT i don't even know what the other LCLOR, plcl
Speaker 4: all of the acronus ski and he IS i mean
Speaker 4: for this even Though Andre johnson is the clear top
Speaker 4: talent for this, offense just what he looks like compared
Speaker 4: to other people who play his. Position, well it's McGahee
Speaker 4: is the one touching the ball and pacing this offense
Speaker 4: and is an incredible talent and one OF i think
Speaker 4: the year before it was, McGahee portois And Frank gore
Speaker 4: all on the same on the same.
Speaker 1: Backfield this is just. Stupid these are.
Speaker 4: Consters, yeah it's, comical and so mcgahe's that. Dude they
Speaker 4: Bringing Jared payton to come in at the, end but
Speaker 4: what that must do to a team. Emotionally i'm not
Speaker 4: saying this is losing the game For, miami but to
Speaker 4: be able to gather yourself to drive down to tie the,
Speaker 4: GAME i Just Ohio state weathering all of this on
Speaker 4: a neutral field is so impressive to. Me they took
Speaker 4: advantage of. Opportunities but, man what the emotion that must
Speaker 4: have been coursing through the, sideline The miami sideline throughout
Speaker 4: this fourth, quarter throughout the. GAME i can't even imagine they.
Speaker 4: Were they were very well. Coached Ohio state was to
Speaker 4: play defensively as well as they, did and to hang
Speaker 4: around in the manner that they did was it was.
Speaker 4: Notable and obviously they won the national championpire thirty one
Speaker 4: to twenty.
Speaker 1: Four big moment for The. Buckeyes they had been waiting
Speaker 1: for this. Forever Jim tressel finally got the job. Done
Speaker 1: a dramatic game in that it went to double overtime
Speaker 1: and they competed arguably against a much, much much more talented.
Speaker 4: Competitor, yeah And Ohio state would eventually become even Under
Speaker 4: Jim tressel talent wise. COMPARABLE i don't know if they
Speaker 4: have that MANY nfl, players but they are a, top
Speaker 4: top talented. Team they just weren't in this moment in that.
Speaker 4: Place this was a scrappy, upstart and as much As
Speaker 4: Ohio state can be a scrappy upstart that they're surviving
Speaker 4: what they do during the regular season and they just
Speaker 4: have to ride defense and field position and hope for the.
Speaker 4: Best and it worked. Out if this game is played ten,
Speaker 4: Times miami is probably winning eight of, them, Right, yeah.
Speaker 4: PROBABLY i WATCHED i also watched this GAME i mentioned
Speaker 4: the word furious both of these teams when they would
Speaker 4: call play action passes.
Speaker 1: A lot of the time it.
Speaker 4: Worked they just didn't do it all that now seeing
Speaker 4: they're watching, us, like just do what works, more, please
Speaker 4: and they. Didn't and it just that second quarter From
Speaker 4: miami it. Was it was just brutal And i'm just
Speaker 4: not over. IT i can't believe it all happened so.
Speaker 4: Quickly two really bad passes and a strip.
Speaker 1: Sack all?
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 1: Uh scale one to, Ten, yeah one being one of
Speaker 1: the worst games you've ever, watched ten being the. Best
Speaker 1: where do you put?
Speaker 4: THIS i mean the fact that we get double overtime
Speaker 4: and the fact that we have these moments and we're
Speaker 4: on the edge of our. Seats that has to count for.
Speaker 4: Something even though the first four quarters, weren't you, know
Speaker 4: a thrill. Ride so seven and a half, eight IT'S
Speaker 4: i probably a little six point seven somewhere in. There,
Speaker 4: okay seven point.
Speaker 1: Two we need we need a scale to grade some
Speaker 1: of these. Games we're gonna do more of.
Speaker 4: THEM i can't Believe miami lost to a dufist Like Craig.
Speaker 1: GRENZL i believe. It, Hi, yeah they can't. Either they can't,
Speaker 1: either all. Right we have droned on for far too, Long,
Speaker 1: yeah about what we felt and our perspective watching this
Speaker 1: game back in two thousand and. Three, sure as we've
Speaker 1: been doing with all of these, games we need the
Speaker 1: perspective of somebody who is in the, stadium.
Speaker 4: All, Right and finally somebody who has spent far more
Speaker 4: time around The miami, program Around miami, football measuring different
Speaker 4: levels of swag throughout the. Decades our very good, Friend Bruce,
Speaker 4: Feldman were you at this? Game were you covering this?
Speaker 4: Game where were you in Early january two thousand and.
Speaker 3: THREE i was at the, game AND i have a
Speaker 3: story THAT i didn't think about when you reached out
Speaker 3: to me until you started talking just.
Speaker 2: Now. SO i am working in THE uspm magazine of
Speaker 2: In New York.
Speaker 3: City at the, time not at the time of the,
Speaker 3: game but you, know at the time at that point
Speaker 3: of my, career and one of my colleagues of the
Speaker 3: magazine had put a literary agent in touch with me and, said,
Speaker 3: hey they know, you you're pretty connected In South, florida
Speaker 3: and would you be interested in doing A miami. Book
Speaker 3: they're not sure what it really, is but a book
Speaker 3: About miami. Football remember the year Before miami ran through
Speaker 3: college football that, grade you, know two thousand and one,
Speaker 3: team and there was obviously a lot of heat Around
Speaker 3: miami and a lot of you, know it's just an interesting,
Speaker 3: program you know.
Speaker 2: What let me think about. It, YES i would do.
Speaker 3: It and so the game is going, on AND i
Speaker 3: remember the, overtime like they let them the print media
Speaker 3: be down on the field for like.
Speaker 2: The last five minutes of the.
Speaker 3: Game once it gets down to five, Minutes, well at
Speaker 3: that POINT i felt LIKE i had been you, know
Speaker 3: the game goes into overtime and are both all, overtimes
Speaker 3: AND i felt LIKE i was, on you, know on
Speaker 3: that side for an hour and a, half AND i
Speaker 3: just Remembered warren's staff was near. Me he had a
Speaker 3: he had like a white towel to just basically wipe
Speaker 3: the sweat, off AND i, remember you, know being near
Speaker 3: him and our side of the. Field for some, reason
Speaker 3: it WAS i was on The miami side was not very.
Speaker 3: Packed like every Game i've gone to in the last ten,
Speaker 3: years that's a national title, game you, know it's like
Speaker 3: there's almost nowhere to. Stand, well for some, REASON i
Speaker 3: don't remember it being particularly crowded over. There now it
Speaker 3: might have been crowded on The Ohio state, side but
Speaker 3: not as you, know it wasn't really at that. Point
Speaker 3: and Uh so the game ends and it dawns on.
Speaker 3: Me oh, man the book deal That i'm, Getting and
Speaker 3: at that POINT i DON'T i don't didn't know how
Speaker 3: much it was, for BUT i knew it was for
Speaker 3: more than five one thousand, dollars you, KNOW i knew
Speaker 3: it was probably you, know more than. THAT i was,
Speaker 3: like oh, man that's probably down the. Toilet oh, Shit
Speaker 3: and the thought in my head was, LIKE i don't
Speaker 3: bet on. SPORTS i feel LIKE i can't cover in,
Speaker 3: it but not That maybe like a, year maybe five years,
Speaker 3: EARLIER i used to do some freelance writing For Maximum.
Speaker 3: MAGAZINE i don't even if maxim still exists by, way
Speaker 3: BUT i would do some sports stuff for, them AND
Speaker 3: i had done a story ON i.
Speaker 2: Think it Was Lennox.
Speaker 3: Lewis and it you, know it's like you're waiting for
Speaker 3: the story to.
Speaker 2: Run, WELL i think it Was.
Speaker 3: Lenox whoever it, was got knocked, out maybe By i've
Speaker 3: Seen blackman over like somewhere in the other half of the,
Speaker 3: world AND i didn't find out till the next, day
Speaker 3: AND i was, like you know, whatever and then it
Speaker 3: thought him was, like oh, man they're not going to
Speaker 3: pay me the whatever seven hundred and fifty dollars for
Speaker 3: that story because now it can't. Run AND i was,
Speaker 3: like it's LIKE i just bet on the fight and
Speaker 3: lost his Basic, yeah like in my in my you
Speaker 3: know head at the, time as like a person who's
Speaker 3: thirty years. Old, well with The Ohio State miami, GAME
Speaker 3: i never thought about the book until right As i'm
Speaker 3: watching everybody run onto the field the second. Time obviously
Speaker 3: the first Time Miami kaks they. Won the second, Time i'm, like,
Speaker 3: WHOA i probably just lost a lot of.
Speaker 2: Money that was my. Thought and it.
Speaker 3: Didn't like it didn't like drop me to my knees
Speaker 3: or anything like. That BUT i was, like, whoa this
Speaker 3: just affected me in a way that no other game
Speaker 3: is going to affect.
Speaker 2: Me so now.
Speaker 3: Obviously it didn't BECAUSE i ended up writing the, Book
Speaker 3: but that was my first, thought and it was it
Speaker 3: was a very crazy game because they're, officiating and one
Speaker 3: of the things THAT i, THOUGHT i MEAN i thought.
Speaker 2: About was, like people remember the end of the game
Speaker 2: in the late part of the. GAME i don't think
Speaker 2: they remember like the first half of the. Game it
Speaker 2: wasn't like the most riveting.
Speaker 3: Game it wasn't Like texas or or any of these
Speaker 3: other games seen probably in the last five.
Speaker 2: Years it was.
Speaker 1: Different, well the, thing the thing that really came to
Speaker 1: mind for, Me bruce AND i went back and looked
Speaker 1: At Ohio state season back in two thousand and. Two
Speaker 1: there were four games where they didn't score twenty, points
Speaker 1: which is almost unfathomable given where we're at in college.
Speaker 1: Football most of these players are under, center the guys are,
Speaker 1: enormous huge shoulder. Pads it's just such a different. Game
Speaker 1: and it wasn't all that long. Ago.
Speaker 3: NOW i, remember you, Know Craig kremszel, was you, know
Speaker 3: you want to talk about, like you, know they Just
Speaker 3: viespan just ran The TEXAS usc great game from you,
Speaker 3: know probably three years after this or two years after,
Speaker 3: This and it was Obviously lioner And bush And Vince
Speaker 3: young and he had these great quarterbacks and, everything And Ken.
Speaker 2: Dorsey was a really really good quarterback At, miami and.
Speaker 3: But kremsell WHAT i remembered most of them was Like
Speaker 3: Greig kremszell was, LIKE i don't know if he was
Speaker 3: a four zero, student but it felt like he. Was
Speaker 3: and he was a four h, student likely like biology
Speaker 3: or something. Like he was he was going to be a.
Speaker 3: Doctor he's going to be a scientist or, whatever and
Speaker 3: so he's very you, know he knew he was very. Smart,
Speaker 3: remember we had to do, something you, know the magazine
Speaker 3: had to do something.
Speaker 2: As a, preview AND.
Speaker 3: I wrote About Chris, gamble who was a great two way,
Speaker 3: player and just he Wasn't Rod woodson or he Wasn't Charles,
Speaker 3: woodson but he was really really.
Speaker 2: Good but it was just, like except.
Speaker 3: For clorette And, clarette became quite a subplot around that
Speaker 3: they were you, know it wasn't like These Ohio state
Speaker 3: teams where they're like dripping with like first round guys
Speaker 3: made good. Players but it wasn't the same you know
Speaker 3: kind Of Ohio. STATE i, mean credit To Jim, trussell
Speaker 3: he got that thing, rolling but it was it was
Speaker 3: obviously a well coached, team AND i think you're, right
Speaker 3: it was like they were one of those teams that
Speaker 3: just grinded people. OUT i, mean they had really good
Speaker 3: linebackers and everything that you, know good, defense and they
Speaker 3: were certainly well. Coached but you, KNOW i think that
Speaker 3: was that was. IT i, MEAN i think they they
Speaker 3: surprised a lot people every step of the.
Speaker 4: Way when you think about the, game do you think
Speaker 4: more about what the game ultimately meant and sort of
Speaker 4: the beginning of the end of, high high level success
Speaker 4: For miami and for the end Of Larry coker's career
Speaker 4: as A power five head, coach or do you think
Speaker 4: about the sort of more micro and the call at the,
Speaker 4: end the back and, forth the. Tension what do you
Speaker 4: think is the bigger lasting.
Speaker 3: Legacy you, know the legacy part was like that was
Speaker 3: kind of the beginning of the downfall Of miami And Larry.
Speaker 2: Cocher AND i used to work With Eric.
Speaker 3: Adelson whose Wife Andrew, edelson still works AT espn dot.
Speaker 3: Com And eric's brilliant, Guy harvard guy. Everything he's worked
Speaker 3: at other places and now tis's journalism at. You he
Speaker 3: had said to me That Larry, cocher this is dumbing it.
Speaker 3: Down but he was, Like Larry cocher is probably too
Speaker 3: nice of a, guy and this thing is going to.
Speaker 3: Backslide AND i was fairly dismissive of BECAUSE i knew
Speaker 3: how well they were, recruiting AND i just, thought, yeah you,
Speaker 3: know he's got it.
Speaker 2: Going all the players buy. In But eric was, right
Speaker 2: like in the, END i, mean.
Speaker 3: The chemistry SID i got, sideways and you, know it
Speaker 3: was like they still had. Talent and like the next,
Speaker 3: YEAR i remember one of the few guys WHO i
Speaker 3: remember really you, know being comfortable talking after that game
Speaker 3: in the locker room Was Jared.
Speaker 2: Peyton you, know he.
Speaker 3: Grown up in the spot of others as a Legend
Speaker 3: Walter payton and, everything And jared ended up having Maybe
Speaker 3: Florida state it might have been the next year in
Speaker 3: The Orange, bowl And jared had the basically the best
Speaker 3: game of his. Career but he was one of the
Speaker 3: few people who could really come to terms with it
Speaker 3: that you, know after the, game AND i just, think you,
Speaker 3: know that program was enough funk almost like they have
Speaker 3: been enough funk since.
Speaker 2: THEN i, mean it was just it really was a big.
Speaker 2: Change you, know you had.
Speaker 3: You had some some of the elements of certainly like you,
Speaker 3: Know Kellen winslow is his own probably his own thirty for,
Speaker 3: thirty but you, know things just kind of you, know
Speaker 3: the next year where there was always, drama but there
Speaker 3: Was it was just, like you, KNOW i felt like
Speaker 3: it was hard for them to handle all that stuff
Speaker 3: and they just you, know it became a very much
Speaker 3: the most three and out program in college football because
Speaker 3: you had so many guys go three and, out and
Speaker 3: they obviously most of them trying to be really good
Speaker 3: football players in THE. Nfl BUT i think that made
Speaker 3: it harder to, sustain and eventually it just kind of
Speaker 3: collapsed under its own.
Speaker 4: Weight what do you remember about the month or, so
Speaker 4: if anything going into the game that you, Know Ohio
Speaker 4: states surviving close calls against you, Know michigan And purdue
Speaker 4: In illinois and. Whoever And miami for the most, part
Speaker 4: they have a couple of close calls, themselves but they're
Speaker 4: the defending national. CHAMPS i believe they just completely Bludgeon
Speaker 4: Virginia tech the game before the NATIONAL champi, ship but
Speaker 4: they dropped fifty or sixty. Points do you remember it
Speaker 4: being sort of a pretty lopsided expectation that this was
Speaker 4: going to Be miami rolling once again like they did
Speaker 4: the year, before or were people keen On Ohio state's.
Speaker 3: Defense, uh you, KNOW i think it's a hard to
Speaker 3: read on that because you, know like until you, know
Speaker 3: it's a little like the aura Of Mike, tyson you,
Speaker 3: know until somebody gets, wobbly you, know you don't believe
Speaker 3: it's actually there going to get knocked. Out and as you,
Speaker 3: SAID i mean This Ohio state, team they were scuffling
Speaker 3: a lot of, ways you, know like they struggled At,
Speaker 3: wisconsin they had their hands full of kind of stayed at.
Speaker 3: Home like you, mentioned The purdue game was, like that
Speaker 3: was a Great purdue. TEAM i think they they had
Speaker 3: to go to overtime against EITHER i think it WAS
Speaker 3: i want to say It's, minnesota but maybe it Was.
Speaker 3: Illinois it was one of those teams that they had
Speaker 3: to go to overtime, about you, know and then they
Speaker 3: they you, know survived Against, mission and so they were
Speaker 3: scuffling along the. WAY i, mean WHAT i remember right
Speaker 3: in the run up was you had so much drama
Speaker 3: With Maurice clorette at that, point, right so you know
Speaker 3: that was its own. SUBPLOT i MEAN i actually. WENT
Speaker 3: i don't know WHY i, went BUT i was at
Speaker 3: their first game that. Year it was Against Texas. Tech
Speaker 3: It's clarette's first. Game it's At Ohio, state And cliff
Speaker 3: was the was A Texas tech, quarterback and he was
Speaker 3: A i don't know IF i would say he was
Speaker 3: a Fringe Heisman.
Speaker 2: Canaday he was definitely like on The heisman.
Speaker 1: Radar, yeah he led the nation in passing that.
Speaker 2: Year, Yeah And.
Speaker 3: Clorette went off in that, game and then you go.
Speaker 3: OFF i want to, say LIKE i had a guy
Speaker 3: who now that is a buddy of mine who is
Speaker 3: on The Ohio state, staff and he worked with special.
Speaker 2: Teams he was the line binners who work with special, teams.
Speaker 3: And he was talking about like How clorette was like
Speaker 3: their best special teams, player and then we're talking about
Speaker 3: the true.
Speaker 2: Freshman it's just like a.
Speaker 3: Great all around football. Player AND i remember that the
Speaker 3: shoe was by the end of that Was channing Mo,
Speaker 3: reice you, know like the whole. Place and the other
Speaker 3: THING i would remember was hearing the. Refs like the next,
Speaker 3: MORNING i was somewhere where there was there was some
Speaker 3: officials who were flying out like that, morning BUT i
Speaker 3: THINK i was at the hotel where they were having
Speaker 3: breakfast and they were, Like i've never seen a quarterback
Speaker 3: take a pounding like that GUY i did and still
Speaker 3: kept getting. Up well that Was, copse you, know so
Speaker 3: that was the beginning of, it and they went on
Speaker 3: this ride and you, know it's it, feels LIKE i,
Speaker 3: said for the people who are who are way young
Speaker 3: on listening to your, podcasts who maybe don't remember two
Speaker 3: thousand and, two like this wasn't The ohio, state you know,
Speaker 3: Now like it's like the Urban meyer Infused ohio state
Speaker 3: where they're gobbling up five star guys and and Essentially
Speaker 3: clemson And alabama esque from a talent, LEVEL i mean
Speaker 3: they had they definitely had, some but they didn't have
Speaker 3: it like what this at least that's my. RECOLLECTION i
Speaker 3: just you, know it was Like miami was the one
Speaker 3: who had ridiculous. Talent And i've said it had a
Speaker 3: lot of really good. Players they were just a really good.
Speaker 3: Team but you, know as we're, Talking i'm going through you, Know,
Speaker 3: Chris Chris campbell was Just Michael jenkins was was really.
Speaker 3: Good but then you looked at like the offensive. LINE
Speaker 3: i don't, KNOW i, Mean i'm kind of going through
Speaker 3: At Nick, MANGLES i remember being a really good, player.
Speaker 2: But beyond, that it was you, know Like Will smith
Speaker 2: was obviously a GOOD nfl.
Speaker 3: PLAYER i Remember Mike DAWs And Donnie Nicky york at
Speaker 3: the safeties and but it wasn't you, know it just to,
Speaker 3: me wasn't like kind of what we, were what we've
Speaker 3: become used to, with you, know with that, group you,
Speaker 3: know just going back, now they didn't even have a
Speaker 3: guy who went in the first round after, That so you,
Speaker 3: know credit To Jim trussell was hell of a coaching.
Speaker 1: Job, Yet, bruce thinking back to this, game we already
Speaker 1: heard the story about you perhaps nearly losing, money but beyond,
Speaker 1: that what are some things we should know about This
Speaker 1: miami team or just about this game being so you
Speaker 1: were there that we wouldn't be able to pick up
Speaker 1: just from being fans in two thousand and two or
Speaker 1: watching the broadcast that.
Speaker 3: NIGHT i think what really stood out to me was
Speaker 3: the expectation that that group had, had because what was
Speaker 3: different about? THEM i feel, like and again it's been a,
Speaker 3: while but the group in two thousand and one had
Speaker 3: all been on the. Ride like you, KNOW i just
Speaker 3: did this story for The athletic on like my favorite
Speaker 3: player that had ever been, around and it Was Ed.
Speaker 3: Reid me just had a charisma and a glow that was. Different,
Speaker 3: well when Ed reid got To miami and he wasn't
Speaker 3: a big. Recruit they beat Too lane to get. Him
Speaker 3: it wasn't like he was you, know we're going to
Speaker 3: beat the whole sec to get him out Of. Louisiana
Speaker 3: but here's the. Thing when Ed reid was a, freshman
Speaker 3: they won five, games they were five and. Six they
Speaker 3: were taken out of the. Sanctions you, know he came
Speaker 3: in in half a recruiting.
Speaker 2: Class.
Speaker 3: Right so the guys on that two thousand and one,
Speaker 3: team most of them were guys who had been like
Speaker 3: hardened Through they they were battling early, on you, know
Speaker 3: in their. Careers they were really. Bad they got embarrassed
Speaker 3: By Florida.
Speaker 2: State that was that.
Speaker 3: Team the two thousand and two, Groups now there were
Speaker 3: still some guys who had you, Know dorsey was still.
Speaker 2: There but for the most, PART.
Speaker 3: I don't think the nucleus of that group had really
Speaker 3: been had come through all the path and had to
Speaker 3: watch it get built back up like this was kind
Speaker 3: of the guys who came who And i'm not saying
Speaker 3: they didn't know what it, took but they were there
Speaker 3: when you, know it had already been. Rolling So i'm
Speaker 3: not sure that they they saw quite that side of,
Speaker 3: it so maybe had a different perspective and a different
Speaker 3: shape on. It to, ME i think that made it
Speaker 3: a little different for the mindset of the.
Speaker 1: Place thinking back on that, game AND i know it's
Speaker 1: been a, while but who was the best player on
Speaker 1: the field from your vantage, POINT i really.
Speaker 3: Remembered winslow being the best player on the. Field like you,
Speaker 3: know again the guy had mentioned before who Coachedest Ohio.
Speaker 3: State he was, like he didn't have any answers for,
Speaker 3: Him like he was. Unstoppable AND i think that was
Speaker 3: a big that was a big thing FOR i, mean
Speaker 3: that was kind of a coming out party for him
Speaker 3: on a national. STAGE i think he had eleven, CATCHES
Speaker 3: i meaning he was just and that those were good,
Speaker 3: players like Like Ohio state had two really, good experienced,
Speaker 3: safeties they had a bunch of linebackers who were, good solid,
Speaker 3: players and he was just a mismatch for, them you,
Speaker 3: know and at least on the field that. Night that's
Speaker 3: WHY i remember being the best player on the.
Speaker 2: Field he was just they couldn't do anything with.
Speaker 3: Him If miami could Protect Ken, dorsey he was going
Speaker 3: to tell on Wins well and they were moving the.
Speaker 1: Ball what was your reaction to the McGahee. INJURY i
Speaker 1: know what it was like watching for from, home but
Speaker 1: from your vantage, point what was what was that?
Speaker 3: Perspective it was later than probably what you guys, saw
Speaker 3: because you, know when you're watching the game or a press,
Speaker 3: box you're not seeing a.
Speaker 2: Replay you didn't.
Speaker 3: See you know how how gruesome that. Was you, know
Speaker 3: you see, it it's just, like oh my, god that's
Speaker 3: not quite what the thisement.
Speaker 2: Injury, was but it felt like it was in that.
Speaker 3: Realm kind of thing where it's bone snapping and just
Speaker 3: like and then there's a part of, it part of
Speaker 3: the situation where you're, thinking, man this is this guy's
Speaker 3: going in THE nfl to have this great. Career and
Speaker 3: fortunately for, HIM i, mean you, know with technology AND
Speaker 3: i guess medical science the way it, is still had
Speaker 3: a really good. CAREER i, mean it wasn't Like miami
Speaker 3: had a had a great running back probably fifteen years,
Speaker 3: Earlier Melvin, bratton who also had a devastating injury in
Speaker 3: his final, game and it Derailed melvin's career pretty much,
Speaker 3: entirely where at least mcgahees it. Didn't so you, know
Speaker 3: it didn't take long to think about the ramifications of
Speaker 3: that for. Him AND i think you, know it was
Speaker 3: different then because, whatever it's seventeen years.
Speaker 2: Ago it also wasn't.
Speaker 3: At that stage where you'd have guys after that say all,
Speaker 3: Right i'm gonna sit out a bowl, game and this
Speaker 3: is a national title. Game i'm sure you know that
Speaker 3: Was that was a sobering, play to say the.
Speaker 2: Least and.
Speaker 3: You know when you said what plays stand, OUT i
Speaker 3: MEAN i was the first one in my. Head between
Speaker 3: that the, passitor it's you, know. Controversy those are the
Speaker 3: two things that stood out the most individually from that.
Speaker 1: Game was it past? INTERFERENCE i don't.
Speaker 3: KNOW i, mean you, know it's like you watched that
Speaker 3: so many. TIMES i, mean that's not AN hd, game
Speaker 3: by the, way right.
Speaker 1: CORRECT i don't.
Speaker 3: KNOW i remember talking To Mark stoops after the. Game
Speaker 3: he Was miami's secondary, coach and it was just there
Speaker 3: was so much controversy around, THAT i think because it.
Speaker 2: Was so, delayed you, know and it's just, like, LOOK
Speaker 2: i don't think that was.
Speaker 3: Obviously Ohio state won the, game AND i think you
Speaker 3: can ask Any Ohio state fan they could probably point
Speaker 3: out six different plays that they felt like should have you,
Speaker 3: know could have gone the other, way you, know officiating
Speaker 3: was SO i don't think that's ever a good situation for.
Speaker 3: Anybody it's certainly not a good situation FOR i still
Speaker 3: remember the name of the, official and it's sure it, wasn't.
Speaker 2: You, know good for him and his. Family AND i
Speaker 2: think he's you, know it's probably even worse than this
Speaker 2: day and. Age so.
Speaker 3: You, know it's just that game has had had so
Speaker 3: much drama around, it AND i think certainly that was
Speaker 3: part of it because of the, lag and you, know
Speaker 3: they're celebrating and then they're, not and then al, SUDDEN i,
Speaker 3: say we better get ourselves back up, again and find
Speaker 3: he really couldn't do.
Speaker 4: It do you think A Jim tressel coach team in twenty,
Speaker 4: twenty which obviously the way he, coached the way he,
Speaker 4: recruited the Way Ohio state played football evolved over his
Speaker 4: tenure there until about a decade, later do you think
Speaker 4: that sort of blueprint could work now in playing as
Speaker 4: conservatively but intelligently and sort of focusing on defense and
Speaker 4: ball control or are we too far? Past are we
Speaker 4: too evolved college football? Wise with, big wide open offenses
Speaker 4: and the sort of more leaning on creativity on offense
Speaker 4: is trestle?
Speaker 1: Ball is it twenty twenty? COMPATIBLE i think it.
Speaker 3: IS i, mean if you get the right players for,
Speaker 3: IT i definitely think it. IS i, mean, Look Mark
Speaker 3: antonio did a lot of the, Stuff Like Jim trussel
Speaker 3: didn't have a lot of success a decade, later AND
Speaker 3: i didn't have success in the last couple of years.
Speaker 1: And was the defensive coordinator in this game For Ohio.
Speaker 3: State he was, right and so there was a lot
Speaker 3: of that blueprint. There you, Know i'm trying to think
Speaker 3: of people now who are coaches is who are really
Speaker 3: using similar models to, That and you know it's hard to,
Speaker 3: FIND i mean right now a program because you see WHAT,
Speaker 3: lsu you see What alabama places that had been you,
Speaker 3: know winning with just defense and let's not screw it
Speaker 3: up for the offense kind of.
Speaker 4: STUFF i think the better Of, Northwestern Pat fitzgerald And
Speaker 4: northwestern have sort of gone with that.
Speaker 3: Model they, Have but AGAIN i THINK i GUESS i
Speaker 3: was talking about like could they could do for national,
Speaker 3: Championships LIKE i, mean Like Pat fitzgerald's a terrific, coach
Speaker 3: but they're not competing For National championships. There you, Know
Speaker 3: i'm just thinking like in terms of you, know it's
Speaker 3: Like Kyle whittingham as a really physical. Team they're very well,
Speaker 3: coached BUT i feel like they're a little more aggressive on,
Speaker 3: offense you, know with some of the stuff they, do
Speaker 3: certainly some of the stuff they did last, year you,
Speaker 3: know When Andy ludwig went back. There BUT i you,
Speaker 3: know it's just thinking off the top of my. Head
Speaker 3: it's hard to find somebody who has who had, that
Speaker 3: but that was a, really really Good his teams are
Speaker 3: really well, coached and they recruited, well and certainly it
Speaker 3: helped that he's At Ohio state where you can get
Speaker 3: a lot of players because you, know you have a
Speaker 3: big brand school and a lot to.
Speaker 2: Sell SO i get that part of.
Speaker 4: It and With miami going the direction that they, did
Speaker 4: still succeeding and they make the move to THE acc
Speaker 4: and then ultimately they have the down year And Larry koker's.
Speaker 4: Replaced you made an allusion to him being probably too
Speaker 4: nice for that. Job what Did miami?
Speaker 1: Need? What you, know what is? It is it Just Butch?
Speaker 4: Davis is it just you, know that big personality to
Speaker 4: keep everything you, know to keep the fire under the
Speaker 4: feet of everybody in the locker, room or as we've
Speaker 4: seen in a lot of, places that there's just sometimes
Speaker 4: a shelf life to.
Speaker 2: EXCELLENCE i think it's really who's who's in, charge how
Speaker 2: well you.
Speaker 3: Know Butch davis was a great. Evaluator account you learned
Speaker 3: Under Jimmy. Johnson HE i mean you look at a track.
Speaker 3: Record his back record for evaluating stacks up with anybody's
Speaker 3: coach college football in the last twenty five years from
Speaker 3: that eventually left, THEN i think it was you had
Speaker 3: a core group of. Guys edred was certainly the main
Speaker 3: guy who held people, accountable and that kind of fed
Speaker 3: into the locker. Room once that got away from, them
Speaker 3: it started to. Implode AND i, MEAN i, think if
Speaker 3: it's too soon to tell, it Many diez will be that.
Speaker 3: GUY i Think manny's really. SMART i don't know how
Speaker 3: all the pieces will come. Together you, know it's not
Speaker 3: like there's less talent around them In South, florida, RIGHT i,
Speaker 3: mean it's, just you, know it's JUST i think chemistry
Speaker 3: is a tricky thing with how it.
Speaker 2: FITS i, mean it wasn't that long Ago Florida state
Speaker 2: was on top of the college football, world and now
Speaker 2: it feels like a long time, ago you, know because
Speaker 2: once it starts to kind of get a little bit,
Speaker 2: off it's almost, like you, know you're starting to run up,
Speaker 2: hill and you, know you AND i you guys all
Speaker 2: we all remember WHEN usc was was, everything and now
Speaker 2: all of a, sudden it's, like, yeah we still can get,
Speaker 2: players but it's just the balance gets, off and so
Speaker 2: it's it's IT'S i don't think it's as black and
Speaker 2: white a question as like a lot of us would
Speaker 2: want to, say and it definitely doesn't fit on a,
Speaker 2: tweet you know that kind of.
Speaker 4: Thing final, question, now when you look back at this,
Speaker 4: game do you look at it, as you, know what
Speaker 4: do you give this overtime double overtime. Game you have
Speaker 4: the back and, forth you have a comeback From miami
Speaker 4: DESPITE i think they turned the ball over five. Times
Speaker 4: was this a great game or was this just a close?
Speaker 2: GAME i think it was. BOTH i, mean it was
Speaker 2: good because of That.
Speaker 3: Drom it had you, know a HISTORIC i, MEAN i
Speaker 3: guess any national title game is going to have a
Speaker 3: historic you know component to. IT i, mean would you
Speaker 3: ask me if it was one of the top five
Speaker 3: games the national title. GAMES i feel Like i've COVERED
Speaker 3: i would probably SAY i MEAN i WOULD i would
Speaker 3: put the to me The TEXAS usc game is a
Speaker 3: clear number.
Speaker 2: One but THEN i would look at like the drama
Speaker 2: around The Alabama georgia game was a great. Game alabama
Speaker 2: And clemson had a great.
Speaker 3: GAME i feel like there's been other ones that Even
Speaker 3: Florida state And, auburn you, know had plenty of drama in.
Speaker 2: The right it came down to the last. Play there's
Speaker 2: Been there's just there's been a lot of great. GAMES
Speaker 2: i think what was what that game had.
Speaker 3: Beyond just the controversial. Call it had a, great great
Speaker 3: team getting knocked off by a.
Speaker 2: Story program that was on its way. Back.
Speaker 3: Right so you, know if Like miami wasn't on the
Speaker 3: thirty four, game Win. Street If miami was was a
Speaker 3: team like you look At, alabama as great as they've,
Speaker 3: been they've, had you, know so many seasons where they've
Speaker 3: won national titles or played for him with one. LAW i,
Speaker 3: mean they're still probably the best team in the country that.
Speaker 3: Year but there there's an element of there's there's not
Speaker 3: the element of. Invincibility miami at thirty four in a,
Speaker 3: ROW usc, saying you, know that's WHAT i think ads
Speaker 3: ratchets up the intrigue around those games because of.
Speaker 4: That Bruce, feltman thank you very much for your, time
Speaker 4: and everybody, listening go buy every.
Speaker 2: Question before we.
Speaker 3: Go, Oh i've stick myself now That i'm now THAT
Speaker 3: i heard you shilling for, me but, YEAH i still. Will,
Speaker 3: Okay so our our Podcast The audible today we got
Speaker 3: a question about somebody. Referencing my favorite episode was When
Speaker 3: bridge asked to do if he Smoked whedon in. College
Speaker 3: stu was and our stew was in our it was
Speaker 3: in a. BAND i was going to say rock. BAND
Speaker 3: i would assume it's something like, that But i'd never
Speaker 3: heard of their, music and he said he never. HAD
Speaker 3: i had said to, him when this thing is all over,
Speaker 3: again all. CLEAR i think the first episode, Back stu's
Speaker 3: Gotta SU's gotta blaze it up.
Speaker 2: And and do The audible that way good. Idea that.
Speaker 4: IDEA i will fly to Northern california and put on
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Speaker 4: Idea we may copy the. Idea, yeah we might think
Speaker 4: might Have maybe maybe we implore all relevant college football
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Speaker 2: Like it's like the it's Not kim going on fine.
Speaker 2: Bomb we have an.
Speaker 3: Editor If stu like drists down the road of talking
Speaker 3: about his old mailbag crushes and it gets a little,
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Speaker 4: OUT i, mean we can talk About stuartmandel dot com
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Speaker 2: Idea, okay, Well i'm. Glad i'm Glad i'm not alone
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Speaker 1: Front i'm Also i'm also skeptical that he's telling the.
Speaker 2: TRUTH i, don't you know. What you can say a
Speaker 2: lot of things About. STU i find him to be very. Honest,
Speaker 2: OKAY i. DON'T i don't think he would make that.
Speaker 2: UP i don't even know why he would claim. It
Speaker 2: it's like he's ever going to run for.
Speaker 4: Office, yeah he's not joining THE, fbi he's not running for.
Speaker 4: Office he's he's a college football, writer AND i think
Speaker 4: it would give him a little more Cred And i'm
Speaker 4: dying to hear what he would have to say if
Speaker 4: his mind was a little bit.
Speaker 1: Altered, YEAH i would.
Speaker 3: Be fascinated to see that version Of. STUE i have
Speaker 3: seen the lit version Of. Stu there was a window
Speaker 3: where it was.
Speaker 2: Different and what does this? Mean it's not for this?
Speaker 2: Podcast Was?
Speaker 4: Stu, okay you don't have to say yes or? No
Speaker 4: Was stu implicated in The Gold club?
Speaker 2: Trial? Now and this doesn't have anything to do With John. Junker,
Speaker 2: ah that's a.
Speaker 1: Shame.
Speaker 4: Okay, uh, well then that's a good great. Seas you
Speaker 4: should subscribe to The. Audible you should subscribe to The Solid.
Speaker 4: Verbal bruce And stewart turning out episodes there horrific and
Speaker 4: they've been doing it for a long time. Now AND
Speaker 4: i don't know If Trader joe's is still a, sponsor
Speaker 4: But bruce likes the Orange.
Speaker 2: Chicken there's still a. Sponsor AND i would highly recommend
Speaker 2: what are the sweet potato tortilla chips for a? Moss?
Speaker 1: Oh those are very?
Speaker 4: Good go look On amazon for first of, All Kine
Speaker 4: mutiny is the name Of Bruce's miami book that he
Speaker 4: talked About look for THE Qb look For Meat, market
Speaker 4: in which he follows at oorgeron around and had no
Speaker 4: idea that COACH o would eventually become a national champion head.
Speaker 4: Coach and you, know Find bruce. Everywhere you know where
Speaker 4: to Find. Bruce just Google Bruce. Feldman you'll find. Him,
Speaker 4: bruce thank you very much for your.
Speaker 3: Time thank you always good to hear, you, guys voices especially,
Speaker 3: now appreciate.
Speaker 1: It all, Right, dan there you. Go Bruce feldman from
Speaker 1: The Athletic Fox. Sports please do subscribe to the show
Speaker 1: he does With Stuart, mandell our good, Friend The, audible
Speaker 1: another college ball. Podcast we're all kind of in this
Speaker 1: big universe together trying to figure out what to talk
Speaker 1: about right now in the midst of a global. Pandemic
Speaker 1: but we're doing our. BEST i, mean are we going
Speaker 1: to keep doing? This do you want to keep doing these?
Speaker 1: Games it's been, fun.
Speaker 4: Yes so we need to come up With we need
Speaker 4: people to give us suggestions for the next game we would.
Speaker 4: Like it doesn't have to be a championship. Game obviously
Speaker 4: we did The Bush push. Game just a big. GAME
Speaker 4: i think we're giving preference to it being pre Soliverbal,
Speaker 4: era so pre two thousand and. Eight but if there's
Speaker 4: something weird and Fun we are happy to do any.
Speaker 4: Game just give us a suggestion and pay attention To
Speaker 4: twitter Or, instagram in which we will tell you which
Speaker 4: game to go rewatch so you can follow along as
Speaker 4: you listen to the.
Speaker 1: Show we will do our best to do.
Speaker 4: That by the, way as a, PostScript tie some some
Speaker 4: really weird after the after the what is it on
Speaker 4: The bachelor after the rose or something like, that after
Speaker 4: the final. Rose, yeah after the final something like. That
Speaker 4: So Larry coker's. FIRED a few years, later as you,
Speaker 4: Know miami joins THE acc and it's clear that they
Speaker 4: succeeded With Butch davis players and he couldn't hold it,
Speaker 4: together even recruiting pretty. Well Jim tressell just goes on
Speaker 4: a tremendous run with as many problems as you know
Speaker 4: some people have with trestle ball and sort of being
Speaker 4: conservative on. Offense what he does In columbus is, incredible
Speaker 4: and the way it ends is also very, strange with
Speaker 4: covering up tattoos and trell pryor and everything like. That
Speaker 4: it worked out fine For Ohio, state and now he's
Speaker 4: the president Of Youngstown state where he used to. Coach
Speaker 4: so it don't cry For Jim. Trussell it ended, weirdly
Speaker 4: but he had just a tremendous run. There Larry koker
Speaker 4: went on to eventually COACH utsa and was not. Good
Speaker 4: it was not good FOR. Utsa you, know largely what
Speaker 4: happened TO nfl. Players we've Mentioned Will smith's. Name he
Speaker 4: dies in just just a wild. Fashion it's just tragic
Speaker 4: for everybody. Involved Maurice clorette and he has that single
Speaker 4: year he sues THE. Nfl he's kicked off of he's
Speaker 4: hooked out Of Ohio, state the. Institution he sues THE
Speaker 4: nfl to be, drafted and it's accepted and then it's
Speaker 4: overturned and so there's a whole. Drama he ends up.
Speaker 4: Incarcerated Ken dorsey's a coach in THE. Nfl Craig, Crenzel i'm,
Speaker 4: sure is a wildly successful doctor. Somewhere Ohio state was
Speaker 4: fine And miami wasn't in the long, term and they
Speaker 4: haven't been since they've had you, know they had the
Speaker 4: year With Mark, richt but, otherwise you, Know Randy shannon
Speaker 4: Replaces Larry, coker and then you Have Al golden And
Speaker 4: Mark richt and it just have him able to find
Speaker 4: that that swaggy elixir. Tie they just have swaggy. Elixir
Speaker 4: seems like a good way to sign off. Tonight Jim
Speaker 4: tressel nine and one Against. Michigan so that worked out.
Speaker 4: Well it's undeniable That ohio state and that was the
Speaker 4: beginning of something incredibly special for the Buck eyes and
Speaker 4: beginning of the end of something incredibly special for The.
Speaker 1: Keynes all, Right, well As dan, said let us know
Speaker 1: what game you want us to do. Next solidverbo at
Speaker 1: gmail dot com is the email. Address you can also
Speaker 1: follow along with us on social. Media we would love
Speaker 1: to hear from you about what game we should do. Next,
Speaker 1: yeah we are planning to do. Bunch it's been a
Speaker 1: lot of fun going back into the archives of college
Speaker 1: football to watch some of these great football. Games so
Speaker 1: one more, time soliverable at gmail dot, Com dan fun.
Speaker 1: Show we appreciate our good Friend Bruce felman stopping on.
Speaker 1: BUY i think that's ALL i. Have it was fun
Speaker 1: to go back and watch this game.
Speaker 4: Again OH i should point out That Frank abagnail did
Speaker 4: serve time the character and catch me if you. Can but, now,
Speaker 4: yes he has been HELPING i think THE fbi with
Speaker 4: with counterfeit and and sort of prosecute those sort of
Speaker 4: counterfeit you, know checks and everything like, that and they
Speaker 4: were able to destroy the. Ring eventually they wrote a
Speaker 4: giant bird On Middle earth and they just sort of
Speaker 4: dumped and.
Speaker 1: Dropped Yeap Mount.
Speaker 4: Doom so they defeated Sore On AND i think everything
Speaker 4: has worked. Out J low got married to or is
Speaker 4: With Alex Rodriguez. Ty everything's.
Speaker 1: Great everything's, great except for the fact that we've got
Speaker 1: a global. Pandemic we hope everyone out there is other than,
Speaker 1: that staying safe and washing their hands and, hey you,
Speaker 1: know enjoying the time at home with your. Family weird,
Speaker 1: times but we'll get through it. Together we will be
Speaker 1: back in one week's time to talk about another ancient
Speaker 1: game from college football. History can't wait in the meantime
Speaker 1: for that guy over, there my good friend Danre, ygenstein for,
Speaker 1: Myself Tie, hildebrand thank you so much for tuning. In
Speaker 1: we will talk to you all. Soon in the, Meantime stay, solid,
Speaker 1: peace