1 00:00:00,800 --> 00:00:03,200 Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to Cool People Do Cool Stuff, a 2 00:00:03,240 --> 00:00:07,240 Speaker 1: podcast about people who put bonus holes into Nazis. I'm 3 00:00:07,240 --> 00:00:10,479 Speaker 1: your host, Margaret KILCHOI thanks, thanks, I'm pretty proud of 4 00:00:10,520 --> 00:00:15,280 Speaker 1: that one. My guest today is Carl Hi. 5 00:00:15,320 --> 00:00:19,120 Speaker 2: Carl, Hey, everyone, I'm particularly excited to hear about today. 6 00:00:19,440 --> 00:00:21,760 Speaker 2: We left off on a real cliffhanger, so I want 7 00:00:21,800 --> 00:00:23,800 Speaker 2: to hear about a lot of Nazis being killed by 8 00:00:23,800 --> 00:00:24,800 Speaker 2: really rat women. 9 00:00:25,320 --> 00:00:27,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, there's going to be so many more than just 10 00:00:27,360 --> 00:00:31,480 Speaker 1: lud Miller, who's also killing more Nazis than anyone I've 11 00:00:31,480 --> 00:00:31,880 Speaker 1: ever met. 12 00:00:33,400 --> 00:00:36,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, yeah, a lot more than anyone else 13 00:00:36,159 --> 00:00:37,360 Speaker 2: can really say for the most part. 14 00:00:37,720 --> 00:00:41,519 Speaker 1: Yeah. And our producer is Sophie Hi. 15 00:00:41,560 --> 00:00:44,920 Speaker 3: Sophie Hi, I'm happy. Danil just sent me a really 16 00:00:44,960 --> 00:00:48,320 Speaker 3: cute photo of his dog helping him edit. 17 00:00:49,600 --> 00:00:53,640 Speaker 1: This is the like I didn't really I think that 18 00:00:53,720 --> 00:00:55,760 Speaker 1: like adding to my list of prepper things. I'm trying 19 00:00:55,760 --> 00:00:57,200 Speaker 1: to convince everyone as I'm also now just trying to 20 00:00:57,200 --> 00:00:59,360 Speaker 1: convince everyone to get dogs because the mental health boost 21 00:00:59,840 --> 00:01:07,320 Speaker 1: is just anyway. Our producer is Ian Hi Ian Ian. 22 00:01:08,680 --> 00:01:09,199 Speaker 2: Hey, Ian. 23 00:01:10,720 --> 00:01:13,840 Speaker 1: And on Woman did our theme song. 24 00:01:14,160 --> 00:01:18,240 Speaker 3: And our moral support is by rentro and Anderson. 25 00:01:19,120 --> 00:01:24,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, Nel is usually outside when I recorded these days, 26 00:01:24,480 --> 00:01:27,000 Speaker 1: not because I like houst him, but if the weather 27 00:01:27,319 --> 00:01:30,759 Speaker 1: accepts him being outside, that is where he is all 28 00:01:30,840 --> 00:01:31,760 Speaker 1: day whenever. 29 00:01:32,080 --> 00:01:34,280 Speaker 3: Whenever I think of Ryntron and I say his name, 30 00:01:34,360 --> 00:01:37,959 Speaker 3: I get that woman. I just love him. 31 00:01:38,360 --> 00:01:40,679 Speaker 2: This is obviously a podcast, but on the last one recorded, 32 00:01:40,800 --> 00:01:42,880 Speaker 2: y'all got to see me on video. My kitty Fennel 33 00:01:43,000 --> 00:01:44,479 Speaker 2: was up on my shoulders for a little while. 34 00:01:44,640 --> 00:01:45,040 Speaker 1: Yeah. 35 00:01:45,080 --> 00:01:49,800 Speaker 2: She's definitely a good a good companion for sure. It 36 00:01:49,800 --> 00:01:50,720 Speaker 2: makes life a better place. 37 00:01:50,800 --> 00:01:55,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely. And if you're afraid of the responsibility that 38 00:01:55,520 --> 00:01:58,600 Speaker 1: they bring the new extra Nita pet I don't know 39 00:01:58,640 --> 00:02:00,920 Speaker 1: whatever I mean. Everyone makes her decisons about shit. But 40 00:02:02,360 --> 00:02:05,000 Speaker 1: one person who made a lot of decisions, three hundred 41 00:02:05,040 --> 00:02:09,200 Speaker 1: and nine decisions about wynd to pull trigger was Ludmiller Pavlchenko, 42 00:02:09,360 --> 00:02:12,840 Speaker 1: and also made some decisions about probably sleeping with the 43 00:02:12,840 --> 00:02:14,760 Speaker 1: first Lady of the United States, but maybe not, maybe 44 00:02:14,840 --> 00:02:17,360 Speaker 1: just having a super romantic friendship. I don't know. I 45 00:02:17,400 --> 00:02:21,359 Speaker 1: kind of almost don't care the difference. That's what we're 46 00:02:21,400 --> 00:02:24,160 Speaker 1: talking about today. We are in part two or Part 47 00:02:24,200 --> 00:02:27,519 Speaker 1: four of the Snipers and Part two of the subsection 48 00:02:27,560 --> 00:02:31,120 Speaker 1: of the snipers about the Soviet women who killed Nazis. 49 00:02:31,880 --> 00:02:36,320 Speaker 1: You can tell I didn't script this part out. So 50 00:02:36,440 --> 00:02:40,600 Speaker 1: back to Ludmillim. After we did her aside learning about 51 00:02:40,840 --> 00:02:44,960 Speaker 1: gay President, gay first ladies, she was supposed to show 52 00:02:45,000 --> 00:02:47,400 Speaker 1: up at the White House, have dinner, try to convince 53 00:02:47,400 --> 00:02:50,520 Speaker 1: the US to join the war against Germany. And she 54 00:02:50,600 --> 00:02:54,000 Speaker 1: does that and then will not successfully convince the US. 55 00:02:54,040 --> 00:02:57,960 Speaker 1: That doesn't happen, but Eleanor Roosevelt and her are like, 56 00:02:58,919 --> 00:03:03,120 Speaker 1: what if? Instead we travel around the US for months 57 00:03:03,120 --> 00:03:06,480 Speaker 1: together and it's a drum up support for the Western Front, 58 00:03:06,560 --> 00:03:09,639 Speaker 1: which is what the kids call at the time, and 59 00:03:10,320 --> 00:03:13,200 Speaker 1: you know, like sex and she so she goes touring 60 00:03:13,600 --> 00:03:16,840 Speaker 1: around the US with Eleanor Roosevelt, just gals, being historically 61 00:03:16,840 --> 00:03:21,640 Speaker 1: close pals. You will be shocked to know that the 62 00:03:21,760 --> 00:03:25,160 Speaker 1: US in the nineteen forties is a fairly sexist place. 63 00:03:26,600 --> 00:03:29,840 Speaker 2: What are you sure, because I I've seen stuff from 64 00:03:29,840 --> 00:03:33,119 Speaker 2: the fifties which Lena looks like. Some people today want 65 00:03:33,120 --> 00:03:35,120 Speaker 2: to make that a panacea, but I can't imagine. The 66 00:03:35,120 --> 00:03:36,440 Speaker 2: forties were like worse. 67 00:03:36,480 --> 00:03:42,920 Speaker 1: Even so, she goes on tour and she's like killed 68 00:03:42,920 --> 00:03:44,760 Speaker 1: more people than anyone anyone else is ever going to 69 00:03:44,800 --> 00:03:47,800 Speaker 1: meet and the press is just like talking about how 70 00:03:47,800 --> 00:03:51,240 Speaker 1: long her skirt is that is too long. It's like, 71 00:03:51,400 --> 00:03:54,080 Speaker 1: where's American women wear shorter skirts or whatever? How her 72 00:03:54,200 --> 00:03:57,480 Speaker 1: uniform makes her look fat, like literally fat shaming her 73 00:03:57,480 --> 00:04:00,240 Speaker 1: about like how much she chooses to eat. They ask 74 00:04:00,280 --> 00:04:02,880 Speaker 1: her about makeup and about what makeup she wears at 75 00:04:02,880 --> 00:04:06,320 Speaker 1: the front, and I am really impressed that she didn't 76 00:04:06,360 --> 00:04:08,200 Speaker 1: just look at the audience and say, I've killed three 77 00:04:08,200 --> 00:04:10,320 Speaker 1: times as many people as there are people in this room. 78 00:04:11,760 --> 00:04:14,720 Speaker 1: But what she did say is actually pretty cool. It's 79 00:04:14,720 --> 00:04:18,240 Speaker 1: pretty much that in Chicago when the crowd is like 80 00:04:18,279 --> 00:04:20,479 Speaker 1: asking her this bullshit. Basically like at first she's like, 81 00:04:20,720 --> 00:04:22,680 Speaker 1: why are they asking me these questions? And then like 82 00:04:22,720 --> 00:04:24,800 Speaker 1: Eleanor Roosevelt's like, you can just say whatever you want, 83 00:04:24,800 --> 00:04:27,320 Speaker 1: fuck these people. She's like, oh yeah, I could say 84 00:04:27,320 --> 00:04:30,320 Speaker 1: whatever I want fuck these people. So Chicago, she says, 85 00:04:30,920 --> 00:04:32,640 Speaker 1: I am twenty five years old and I have killed 86 00:04:32,680 --> 00:04:35,960 Speaker 1: three hundred and nine fascist invaders by now. Don't you think, gentlemen, 87 00:04:36,000 --> 00:04:38,240 Speaker 1: that you have that you've been hiding behind my back 88 00:04:38,279 --> 00:04:38,960 Speaker 1: for too long? 89 00:04:40,080 --> 00:04:43,480 Speaker 2: Oh? Brutal, Yeah, brutal. So this is like the this 90 00:04:43,520 --> 00:04:45,599 Speaker 2: is the equivalent of the YouTube comments telling her how 91 00:04:45,640 --> 00:04:49,400 Speaker 2: to shoot better. Come on, little lady, I know how 92 00:04:49,440 --> 00:04:52,400 Speaker 2: to shoot better than you because I'm a guy, Like, oh. 93 00:04:52,080 --> 00:04:55,000 Speaker 1: My god, yeah yeah, And then it is like I 94 00:04:55,440 --> 00:04:59,080 Speaker 1: am one of the most highly decorated military people in history. 95 00:05:00,720 --> 00:05:02,000 Speaker 2: Sick burn as they say. 96 00:05:02,440 --> 00:05:07,280 Speaker 1: Yeah. And so it's this thing again though, where it's 97 00:05:07,320 --> 00:05:10,400 Speaker 1: like women fighters are being used as propaganda. It's not like, hey, women, 98 00:05:10,440 --> 00:05:13,560 Speaker 1: we can do it. It's like, men, you're not manly enough. 99 00:05:13,600 --> 00:05:17,560 Speaker 1: A girl is doing your work for you. But the 100 00:05:17,600 --> 00:05:21,479 Speaker 1: same time, playing on men's emotions and utilizing patriarchy to 101 00:05:21,520 --> 00:05:25,680 Speaker 1: fight against patriarchy has been a women's tactic since forever 102 00:05:25,720 --> 00:05:27,880 Speaker 1: and is a fairly effective one. And I can't actually 103 00:05:27,920 --> 00:05:33,280 Speaker 1: hate someone for using that tactic. You know, everywhere she goes, 104 00:05:34,400 --> 00:05:37,320 Speaker 1: it's mostly the unions showing up and offering her gifts 105 00:05:37,360 --> 00:05:39,800 Speaker 1: as thank you, and she hung out with like workers 106 00:05:39,800 --> 00:05:43,440 Speaker 1: at bars and at union halls and shit. The leather 107 00:05:43,520 --> 00:05:47,080 Speaker 1: workers union gave her a fur coat. And it's funny too, right, 108 00:05:47,120 --> 00:05:48,520 Speaker 1: most of the time you read about this fur coat 109 00:05:48,560 --> 00:05:51,760 Speaker 1: she's given, it's like implied that it's given to her 110 00:05:51,800 --> 00:05:53,240 Speaker 1: by like a rich person, because they think of a 111 00:05:53,240 --> 00:05:55,880 Speaker 1: fur coat as a rich person thing, right, And rich 112 00:05:55,880 --> 00:05:58,039 Speaker 1: people are the people who buy the fur coats. They're 113 00:05:58,040 --> 00:05:59,520 Speaker 1: not the people who make the fur coats. It is 114 00:05:59,560 --> 00:06:02,520 Speaker 1: a union labor that made these coats. Say what you 115 00:06:02,560 --> 00:06:06,760 Speaker 1: will about for whatever. And as she's going around, she's 116 00:06:06,760 --> 00:06:08,240 Speaker 1: just like more and more is just like men, fuck 117 00:06:08,279 --> 00:06:10,039 Speaker 1: you all, and she's just like starts talking about how 118 00:06:10,040 --> 00:06:12,400 Speaker 1: in the USSR they don't have a fucking segregated army, 119 00:06:12,920 --> 00:06:14,680 Speaker 1: and like how women are allowed to fight at the 120 00:06:14,680 --> 00:06:17,080 Speaker 1: front line and shit, and she's exaggerating about women allowed 121 00:06:17,080 --> 00:06:18,880 Speaker 1: to fight at the front line, but it sure is 122 00:06:18,920 --> 00:06:23,640 Speaker 1: a hell of a lot more equal. She doesn't manage 123 00:06:23,680 --> 00:06:26,200 Speaker 1: to get the US to join the European Theater. That 124 00:06:26,279 --> 00:06:29,440 Speaker 1: has to wait a while. Americans like being fashionably late. 125 00:06:30,440 --> 00:06:33,000 Speaker 1: That said, all along, they've been sending a fuck ton 126 00:06:33,040 --> 00:06:34,960 Speaker 1: of material aid, which I guess would now be called 127 00:06:35,000 --> 00:06:38,320 Speaker 1: lethal aid. And I actually don't I think that lethole 128 00:06:38,320 --> 00:06:40,679 Speaker 1: aids funny. I don't actually care. I'm not like mad 129 00:06:40,680 --> 00:06:42,560 Speaker 1: that people call it that. I just think it's funny. 130 00:06:42,800 --> 00:06:44,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, although no, I think that is. I mean the 131 00:06:45,000 --> 00:06:47,479 Speaker 2: reality of the amount of war material that was sent 132 00:06:47,520 --> 00:06:51,000 Speaker 2: to the Soviet Union for this endeavor shouldn't be understated. 133 00:06:51,040 --> 00:06:51,720 Speaker 2: It was immense. 134 00:06:52,200 --> 00:06:55,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and like and you know, the more you 135 00:06:56,320 --> 00:06:58,120 Speaker 1: there's some quote from some general I don't remember, but 136 00:06:58,120 --> 00:07:01,679 Speaker 1: it's like, the more you learn about battle and war 137 00:07:01,760 --> 00:07:04,080 Speaker 1: and strategy and shit, you start off caring about tactics, 138 00:07:04,120 --> 00:07:05,840 Speaker 1: you end up moving to strategy, and then above that 139 00:07:05,880 --> 00:07:07,960 Speaker 1: you realize that the highest thing of all is like 140 00:07:08,040 --> 00:07:09,040 Speaker 1: food supply lines. 141 00:07:09,680 --> 00:07:12,480 Speaker 2: You know, it's like Napoleon with his canned food. 142 00:07:13,400 --> 00:07:14,800 Speaker 1: Woh, Napoleon and canned food. 143 00:07:15,160 --> 00:07:16,679 Speaker 2: Oh wait, did you know this is interesting? 144 00:07:16,960 --> 00:07:18,720 Speaker 1: Prepper here? Oh Poleon? 145 00:07:18,880 --> 00:07:21,960 Speaker 2: Seriously, no, this is a topic for another day. Well, 146 00:07:22,040 --> 00:07:25,760 Speaker 2: one of the things in the Napoleonic Army had going 147 00:07:25,880 --> 00:07:30,000 Speaker 2: for itself was they essentially had essentially a project going 148 00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:32,640 Speaker 2: which was find a way to make us be able 149 00:07:32,680 --> 00:07:35,120 Speaker 2: to be more mobile with food. And that's where canned 150 00:07:35,120 --> 00:07:38,520 Speaker 2: food came from. And they had canned food and the 151 00:07:38,560 --> 00:07:41,400 Speaker 2: Napoleonic Army, and they could move their armies and their 152 00:07:41,400 --> 00:07:43,600 Speaker 2: supply lines in a way that no one else could. 153 00:07:43,760 --> 00:07:44,960 Speaker 2: And it was hugely effective. 154 00:07:46,680 --> 00:07:49,400 Speaker 1: At the end of twenty twenty five, when the Civil 155 00:07:49,440 --> 00:07:51,240 Speaker 1: War has been raging for a year and I opened 156 00:07:51,280 --> 00:07:53,680 Speaker 1: my last can of canned corn, thinking I had enough 157 00:07:53,680 --> 00:07:55,640 Speaker 1: for seven years. But actually it turns out people eat 158 00:07:55,680 --> 00:08:00,040 Speaker 1: an awful lot of food. I'll say to myself, Thanks Napoleon. 159 00:08:00,440 --> 00:08:01,280 Speaker 2: It's pretty fascinating. 160 00:08:01,320 --> 00:08:01,480 Speaker 1: Yeah. 161 00:08:01,480 --> 00:08:04,760 Speaker 2: He offered apparently a twelve thousand franc cash prize to 162 00:08:04,800 --> 00:08:07,160 Speaker 2: whoever could come up with this idea, and that's what 163 00:08:07,280 --> 00:08:08,360 Speaker 2: came out, was canned food. 164 00:08:08,720 --> 00:08:13,160 Speaker 1: Whoa, I've been making hard tackle lately. Oh gosh, that's 165 00:08:13,200 --> 00:08:16,920 Speaker 1: part of my prepper bullshit. Everyone's response is like, what 166 00:08:16,960 --> 00:08:18,600 Speaker 1: the fuck are you doing? I'm like, it's gonna last 167 00:08:18,640 --> 00:08:19,480 Speaker 1: seventy years. 168 00:08:19,840 --> 00:08:21,560 Speaker 2: That's rough stuff. I mean, but I was. I was 169 00:08:21,560 --> 00:08:23,520 Speaker 2: talking about this the other day and it's like, what. 170 00:08:23,480 --> 00:08:25,520 Speaker 1: About consulting that sucks and hurts your teeth? 171 00:08:25,800 --> 00:08:27,440 Speaker 2: Slightly off topic, Well, you got to dip it in 172 00:08:27,440 --> 00:08:29,520 Speaker 2: the coffee long enough that it becomes yea, right, but like, 173 00:08:30,360 --> 00:08:32,520 Speaker 2: but what about like this, the Vic Kong method of 174 00:08:32,640 --> 00:08:36,560 Speaker 2: just stores of rice and spam, Like that stuff lasts 175 00:08:36,559 --> 00:08:37,040 Speaker 2: forever too. 176 00:08:37,160 --> 00:08:41,760 Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, hell yeah, that's my plan for my This 177 00:08:41,800 --> 00:08:43,600 Speaker 1: is not in my proper podcast. Let's go back to 178 00:08:43,640 --> 00:08:44,320 Speaker 1: the history. 179 00:08:44,120 --> 00:08:45,640 Speaker 2: Part, right, Sorry, that's another day. 180 00:08:45,880 --> 00:08:50,640 Speaker 1: No, no, no, I'm the one, okay. So anyway, she 181 00:08:50,720 --> 00:08:52,480 Speaker 1: goes and she goes on this tour for several months, 182 00:08:52,480 --> 00:08:54,040 Speaker 1: and she's hanging out with Eleanor Roosevelt and they're like 183 00:08:54,120 --> 00:08:57,440 Speaker 1: best friends and it might literally be just that, but 184 00:08:57,840 --> 00:09:02,960 Speaker 1: it might not, And God bless them both at least 185 00:09:02,960 --> 00:09:08,680 Speaker 1: in this situation. Either way, I don't care. So she 186 00:09:08,760 --> 00:09:10,440 Speaker 1: makes her way back to the USSR and she spends 187 00:09:10,480 --> 00:09:12,440 Speaker 1: the rest of the war teaching people how to kill Nazis. 188 00:09:12,640 --> 00:09:14,640 Speaker 1: She's actually begging to go back to the front, but 189 00:09:14,679 --> 00:09:17,280 Speaker 1: they don't let her, which is like fucked up in 190 00:09:17,320 --> 00:09:21,200 Speaker 1: some ways, but also it's like she's probably more useful 191 00:09:21,240 --> 00:09:24,640 Speaker 1: passing on her skills at this point, you know, both 192 00:09:24,640 --> 00:09:25,920 Speaker 1: as a propaganda. 193 00:09:25,440 --> 00:09:28,079 Speaker 2: Oh yes, the lessons she learned on the front are 194 00:09:28,280 --> 00:09:32,480 Speaker 2: like how many people did she so save with like 195 00:09:33,080 --> 00:09:35,160 Speaker 2: things that she learned the hard way? Right? 196 00:09:35,800 --> 00:09:37,120 Speaker 1: And one of the things that I feel like actually 197 00:09:37,160 --> 00:09:39,120 Speaker 1: gets left out in terms of like women's contributions to 198 00:09:39,160 --> 00:09:42,160 Speaker 1: the world too, right, is that, like teaching is an 199 00:09:42,200 --> 00:09:45,080 Speaker 1: important part of getting things done, and so like the 200 00:09:45,120 --> 00:09:47,160 Speaker 1: person who doesn't want to do the support work and 201 00:09:47,280 --> 00:09:50,200 Speaker 1: just wants to be the hero is actually often less 202 00:09:50,600 --> 00:09:54,520 Speaker 1: accomplishing less than the person who is teaching, who is 203 00:09:55,760 --> 00:09:59,600 Speaker 1: you know, turning other people into Nazi killers too, you know, 204 00:10:00,040 --> 00:10:04,599 Speaker 1: and saving their lives by teaching them field craft and anyway. 205 00:10:05,320 --> 00:10:07,720 Speaker 1: After the war, she gets her master's degree or maybe 206 00:10:07,720 --> 00:10:11,320 Speaker 1: her PhD. I've read both. She becomes a historian, but 207 00:10:11,400 --> 00:10:13,319 Speaker 1: she struggles for the rest of her life with PTSD 208 00:10:13,440 --> 00:10:17,280 Speaker 1: and alcoholism. And people were like, oh, she's just sad 209 00:10:17,320 --> 00:10:21,480 Speaker 1: that her husband died, but I mean, she'd probably never 210 00:10:21,520 --> 00:10:24,320 Speaker 1: married that guy. She might have married a different husband 211 00:10:24,360 --> 00:10:29,880 Speaker 1: after the war who died right away. I think she 212 00:10:30,000 --> 00:10:32,320 Speaker 1: was said PTSD is shit because she was sad because 213 00:10:32,320 --> 00:10:34,240 Speaker 1: she'd been through the wildest shit that humans have ever 214 00:10:34,280 --> 00:10:36,320 Speaker 1: been through and killed three hundred and nine people and 215 00:10:36,360 --> 00:10:38,160 Speaker 1: solved millions of people slaughtered. 216 00:10:38,800 --> 00:10:41,679 Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, perhaps she survived the Eastern Front and 217 00:10:41,800 --> 00:10:44,520 Speaker 2: even though they were hitlerrites or fascists, as she said, 218 00:10:44,720 --> 00:10:46,800 Speaker 2: she was still pressing the trigger and sending a bullet 219 00:10:46,840 --> 00:10:47,920 Speaker 2: into what was a human. 220 00:10:48,320 --> 00:10:53,720 Speaker 1: Yeah. Totally, of two thousand, four hundred eighty four women 221 00:10:53,840 --> 00:10:57,280 Speaker 1: snipers in the Red Army, only about five hundred survived 222 00:10:57,320 --> 00:11:02,040 Speaker 1: the war. Sure that didn't help her PTSD or shell 223 00:11:02,080 --> 00:11:04,680 Speaker 1: shock as was called back then. I'm sure survivor's guilt 224 00:11:04,720 --> 00:11:06,240 Speaker 1: was probably a big part of a lot of this, 225 00:11:06,679 --> 00:11:09,760 Speaker 1: especially being rescued from sevastpool by submarine, as like your 226 00:11:09,800 --> 00:11:13,360 Speaker 1: special everyone else, including your potential husband, is just going 227 00:11:13,440 --> 00:11:16,800 Speaker 1: to die while you're gone. You know, this twenty percent 228 00:11:16,880 --> 00:11:19,160 Speaker 1: survival rate is way lower than the rest of the 229 00:11:19,200 --> 00:11:22,800 Speaker 1: Red Army, which was at around sixty five percent. Like 230 00:11:23,040 --> 00:11:27,480 Speaker 1: the fucked on a Red Army. People died, right or 231 00:11:27,760 --> 00:11:30,240 Speaker 1: casualties of one sort or another. But in this case, 232 00:11:30,280 --> 00:11:32,640 Speaker 1: we're like talking about literally twenty percent survival rate for 233 00:11:32,640 --> 00:11:33,680 Speaker 1: the snipers. 234 00:11:34,000 --> 00:11:37,800 Speaker 2: The human toll that took to destroy the Nazis. I mean, 235 00:11:37,880 --> 00:11:41,480 Speaker 2: the Soviet methods could be discussed, but cannot be cannot 236 00:11:41,520 --> 00:11:42,240 Speaker 2: be overstated. 237 00:11:42,720 --> 00:11:48,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, fifteen years later after the war, Eleanor Roosevelt goes 238 00:11:48,120 --> 00:11:51,599 Speaker 1: to Moscow and she insists, She's like, I want to 239 00:11:51,640 --> 00:11:54,559 Speaker 1: see my old friend Ludmilim. But this is Cold War times, right, 240 00:11:55,040 --> 00:11:57,640 Speaker 1: and they're like, nah, you can't see lud Millin. She's like, 241 00:11:57,880 --> 00:11:59,560 Speaker 1: let me see lud Milin. She basically throws a fit. 242 00:11:59,600 --> 00:12:01,560 Speaker 1: She's like, I'm fucking well, she's not the first Lady 243 00:12:01,600 --> 00:12:03,880 Speaker 1: anymore at this point, although she did. I think she 244 00:12:03,960 --> 00:12:06,480 Speaker 1: was first Lady for like sixteen years, but she has 245 00:12:06,520 --> 00:12:08,480 Speaker 1: to fight like hell to get the USSR to agree 246 00:12:08,520 --> 00:12:10,280 Speaker 1: to let her see Ludmilla. And I've seen a couple 247 00:12:10,320 --> 00:12:12,720 Speaker 1: different versions of like where they meet. Maybe it's Ludmilla's house, 248 00:12:12,720 --> 00:12:14,640 Speaker 1: maybe it wasn't, I don't know. When they do see 249 00:12:14,640 --> 00:12:17,120 Speaker 1: each other, they both have these military details following them, 250 00:12:17,120 --> 00:12:20,520 Speaker 1: like bodyguards and handlers and shit. They can't really reconnect. 251 00:12:20,600 --> 00:12:23,160 Speaker 1: They're like, oh, hey, how's it going, blah blah blah. 252 00:12:23,200 --> 00:12:26,640 Speaker 1: And then while they're walking down a hall, they like 253 00:12:26,920 --> 00:12:29,680 Speaker 1: dash into some kind of side room and then like 254 00:12:29,720 --> 00:12:33,000 Speaker 1: a closet or a bathroom or actually maybe a kitchen. Again, 255 00:12:33,040 --> 00:12:35,640 Speaker 1: I've heard this story gets told different every single fucking time, 256 00:12:35,920 --> 00:12:38,880 Speaker 1: but no one tells the important part of it. So 257 00:12:38,920 --> 00:12:41,679 Speaker 1: they barricade themselves off into a different room and they 258 00:12:41,679 --> 00:12:44,560 Speaker 1: can finally reconnect. And you know, the way this story 259 00:12:44,600 --> 00:12:46,920 Speaker 1: usually gets told is that Eleanor throws her arms around 260 00:12:46,960 --> 00:12:48,800 Speaker 1: Ludmilla and says how much you've missed her, and they 261 00:12:48,840 --> 00:12:51,200 Speaker 1: reminisce about their times together until the guards get the 262 00:12:51,240 --> 00:12:55,720 Speaker 1: doors open or whatever. And the story is so funny 263 00:12:55,840 --> 00:12:58,160 Speaker 1: because it just like actually doesn't make sense until you 264 00:12:58,240 --> 00:13:01,600 Speaker 1: realize that they had to at least a romantic friendship, 265 00:13:02,480 --> 00:13:04,959 Speaker 1: you know, regardless of anything that they may or may 266 00:13:05,160 --> 00:13:07,480 Speaker 1: may not have gotten up to, they had a romantic 267 00:13:07,520 --> 00:13:10,720 Speaker 1: friendship that they had a romantic lesbian connection. And that 268 00:13:10,880 --> 00:13:16,400 Speaker 1: is like the only way that this story is important 269 00:13:16,440 --> 00:13:18,400 Speaker 1: part of the story. It's always included, and I'm like, 270 00:13:18,440 --> 00:13:20,440 Speaker 1: why did you include this until I found out that 271 00:13:20,480 --> 00:13:23,200 Speaker 1: Eleanor Roosevelt was a lesbian and then I like started whatever. 272 00:13:23,240 --> 00:13:26,120 Speaker 2: Anyway, it's almost it almost sounds like something you'd see 273 00:13:26,120 --> 00:13:28,920 Speaker 2: in like a fictional movie, but it's but it's actually real. 274 00:13:29,280 --> 00:13:32,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, totally, yeah, And it's like I don't think that 275 00:13:32,040 --> 00:13:34,400 Speaker 1: they like locked themselves in and like boned or something, 276 00:13:34,480 --> 00:13:37,120 Speaker 1: but like they reconnected as these people who had like 277 00:13:37,679 --> 00:13:40,679 Speaker 1: probably loved one another in whatever context, and like they 278 00:13:40,760 --> 00:13:45,680 Speaker 1: finally able to reconnect, you know. So Ludmilla died at 279 00:13:45,679 --> 00:13:49,120 Speaker 1: a stroke at fifty eight years old. I'm sure that 280 00:13:49,240 --> 00:13:51,719 Speaker 1: the series of traumatic brain injuries and the alcohol that 281 00:13:51,760 --> 00:13:54,640 Speaker 1: she used to cope with her trauma had something to 282 00:13:54,679 --> 00:13:59,079 Speaker 1: do with her early death. But she killed three hundred 283 00:13:59,080 --> 00:14:01,839 Speaker 1: and nine Nazis and she probably cooked the president of 284 00:14:01,920 --> 00:14:04,960 Speaker 1: the most powerful capitalist nation on earth. So it's like 285 00:14:05,000 --> 00:14:06,559 Speaker 1: a pretty crammed full life. 286 00:14:08,720 --> 00:14:10,440 Speaker 2: It's hard to not keep in making the joke. But 287 00:14:10,480 --> 00:14:15,800 Speaker 2: she has an incredible body count, like legitimately, yeah, of 288 00:14:16,160 --> 00:14:18,040 Speaker 2: high ranking officials across the board. 289 00:14:20,880 --> 00:14:23,680 Speaker 1: So who fucking knows how many people? How you know 290 00:14:23,720 --> 00:14:26,080 Speaker 1: the real count, but the best we've got the three 291 00:14:26,160 --> 00:14:28,680 Speaker 1: zero nine numbers. She's one of the deadliest snipers in history. 292 00:14:29,160 --> 00:14:31,280 Speaker 1: Almost everyone else on the top of that list is 293 00:14:31,280 --> 00:14:35,480 Speaker 1: Soviet snipers in World War Two. I obviously have no 294 00:14:35,520 --> 00:14:38,840 Speaker 1: pulled particular love for the Soviet government or authoritarianism or at large, 295 00:14:39,360 --> 00:14:42,640 Speaker 1: but the USSRS where Nazism went to die at the 296 00:14:42,680 --> 00:14:45,760 Speaker 1: hands of women and men who fought, sometimes with literally 297 00:14:45,800 --> 00:14:50,080 Speaker 1: nothing to stop them. And I think about this a lot. 298 00:14:50,120 --> 00:14:53,840 Speaker 1: I'm like, why I will never conflate Nazism and Stalinism, 299 00:14:53,920 --> 00:14:58,800 Speaker 1: even though I strongly disagree with Stalinism, right, And that's 300 00:14:58,840 --> 00:15:01,880 Speaker 1: because the average fascist is a nightmare man who wants 301 00:15:01,920 --> 00:15:05,240 Speaker 1: to kill everyone who's different from him, while the average 302 00:15:05,280 --> 00:15:08,520 Speaker 1: state communist, I believe, is a well meaning, hard working 303 00:15:08,560 --> 00:15:10,720 Speaker 1: person who believes in a dream that has been led 304 00:15:10,760 --> 00:15:14,360 Speaker 1: into horrors by their government. That's my like. 305 00:15:15,480 --> 00:15:17,920 Speaker 2: Which governments are so apt to do, regardless of whatever 306 00:15:18,080 --> 00:15:19,200 Speaker 2: ism they're associated with. 307 00:15:19,880 --> 00:15:23,720 Speaker 1: Yep, totally, because you could say the same about American patriots. 308 00:15:23,720 --> 00:15:25,240 Speaker 1: Some of them some are fascists. 309 00:15:25,240 --> 00:15:29,880 Speaker 2: Absolutely, the intent of the fascism's entire ideology is based 310 00:15:29,880 --> 00:15:34,440 Speaker 2: on supremacy of a specific group and the destruction of 311 00:15:34,480 --> 00:15:37,160 Speaker 2: others in the process. And while that's not the case, 312 00:15:37,560 --> 00:15:40,440 Speaker 2: even it was not the case in the USSR, the 313 00:15:40,760 --> 00:15:44,120 Speaker 2: higher ups and the hierarchy and the government was definitely horrific, 314 00:15:44,520 --> 00:15:46,840 Speaker 2: but the individual paid the price to save the world 315 00:15:46,840 --> 00:15:47,560 Speaker 2: from fascism. 316 00:15:48,200 --> 00:15:53,440 Speaker 1: Yep. Absolutely. The two five hundred or so women snipers 317 00:15:53,520 --> 00:15:56,360 Speaker 1: killed at best guests eleven thousand Nazis during the war. 318 00:15:57,760 --> 00:16:01,720 Speaker 1: Another one who rose to prominence was named Rosa Shanina, 319 00:16:02,480 --> 00:16:06,440 Speaker 1: and she was named after Rosa Luxembourg. Rosa was raised 320 00:16:06,440 --> 00:16:08,920 Speaker 1: on a collective farm once she was one of seven kids. 321 00:16:09,360 --> 00:16:12,200 Speaker 1: At fourteen, she walked one hundred and twenty miles by 322 00:16:12,240 --> 00:16:14,640 Speaker 1: herself across the Tiger to get to a rail station 323 00:16:14,720 --> 00:16:18,680 Speaker 1: to head off to college. Without her parents' permission. She 324 00:16:18,800 --> 00:16:22,000 Speaker 1: worked as a kindergarten teacher to funder education. She graduated 325 00:16:22,040 --> 00:16:24,840 Speaker 1: nineteen forty two while as war was hitting the country 326 00:16:25,440 --> 00:16:27,600 Speaker 1: and being a kindergarten teacher in the USSR. In the 327 00:16:27,680 --> 00:16:30,160 Speaker 1: nineteen forties meant that one of her jobs before she 328 00:16:30,240 --> 00:16:32,600 Speaker 1: joined the military was that she and other teachers kept 329 00:16:32,640 --> 00:16:38,200 Speaker 1: guard on rooftops to watch out for bombers. And when 330 00:16:38,240 --> 00:16:40,680 Speaker 1: one of her three brothers to die in the war died, 331 00:16:41,160 --> 00:16:43,960 Speaker 1: she volunteered. She found her way to the school for 332 00:16:44,000 --> 00:16:46,760 Speaker 1: women's snipers that had been set up, the Central Women's 333 00:16:46,800 --> 00:16:50,920 Speaker 1: Sniper Training School. She was really fucking good. They asked 334 00:16:50,960 --> 00:16:52,840 Speaker 1: her to stay and teach, and she was like, no, 335 00:16:52,920 --> 00:16:55,680 Speaker 1: I have fucking Nazis to kill. She wound up the 336 00:16:55,760 --> 00:16:58,400 Speaker 1: commander of a platoon of female snipers in one hundred 337 00:16:58,400 --> 00:17:04,800 Speaker 1: and eighty fourth Rifle Division. And it's interesting because her story, well, okay, 338 00:17:04,920 --> 00:17:07,200 Speaker 1: she kills her first man. She's in a trend. She 339 00:17:07,280 --> 00:17:10,119 Speaker 1: kills a guy, and her legs collapse beneath her and 340 00:17:10,160 --> 00:17:12,919 Speaker 1: she slumps into the trenches and she's like, I just 341 00:17:12,960 --> 00:17:14,919 Speaker 1: fucking killed a guy. Well, the actual quote is I've 342 00:17:15,000 --> 00:17:17,680 Speaker 1: killed a man. I don't need to paraphrase it when 343 00:17:18,119 --> 00:17:21,280 Speaker 1: it's fairly direct. And the other women were like, that 344 00:17:21,400 --> 00:17:23,000 Speaker 1: wasn't a man. That was a fascist, and they help 345 00:17:23,040 --> 00:17:26,800 Speaker 1: her back to her feet. And in her war diaries, 346 00:17:26,800 --> 00:17:29,680 Speaker 1: which were illegal for her to keep, a few months later, 347 00:17:29,720 --> 00:17:32,200 Speaker 1: she realized that killing fascists in cold blood gave meaning 348 00:17:32,240 --> 00:17:34,439 Speaker 1: to her life, and that she would do everything the 349 00:17:34,480 --> 00:17:36,720 Speaker 1: same if she could do it all over. And I 350 00:17:36,760 --> 00:17:39,560 Speaker 1: actually trust this information about her a little bit more 351 00:17:39,720 --> 00:17:42,439 Speaker 1: than I trust the Ludmilla information because all of her 352 00:17:42,480 --> 00:17:47,200 Speaker 1: autobiographical stuff was written illegally rather than goes written by propagandists. Right, 353 00:17:47,320 --> 00:17:49,040 Speaker 1: she wasn't allowed to keep this diary, and she did 354 00:17:49,040 --> 00:17:52,240 Speaker 1: it anyway. When the Soviet high command tried to force 355 00:17:52,280 --> 00:17:55,040 Speaker 1: women to withdraw from the front, she refused orders and 356 00:17:55,119 --> 00:17:58,040 Speaker 1: kept fighting, crossing into Germany and killing Germans on their 357 00:17:58,040 --> 00:18:00,800 Speaker 1: own soil basically like just like was like, ignored orders 358 00:18:00,800 --> 00:18:03,440 Speaker 1: and kept fighting, and no one like stopped her. 359 00:18:04,080 --> 00:18:05,560 Speaker 2: Well, I mean, if you're good at your job and 360 00:18:05,560 --> 00:18:08,359 Speaker 2: it's fascist dying it probably yeah, don't do that. But 361 00:18:08,880 --> 00:18:09,760 Speaker 2: that's pretty. 362 00:18:09,440 --> 00:18:13,560 Speaker 1: Cool, Yeah, exactly Like. And at one point during all 363 00:18:13,600 --> 00:18:15,639 Speaker 1: this she was shot through the shoulder. Another time she 364 00:18:15,640 --> 00:18:18,159 Speaker 1: suffered friendly fire from a rocket launcher. I believe this 365 00:18:18,200 --> 00:18:19,199 Speaker 1: was not a direct hit. 366 00:18:21,200 --> 00:18:23,560 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, so it tends to be pink miss Yeah, 367 00:18:23,800 --> 00:18:24,760 Speaker 2: probably shrapnel. 368 00:18:25,280 --> 00:18:27,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think I think it was like a fire 369 00:18:27,840 --> 00:18:30,040 Speaker 1: element of it somehow, because she talks about like, now 370 00:18:30,040 --> 00:18:32,280 Speaker 1: I understand why everyone's afraid of this fire or something 371 00:18:32,320 --> 00:18:35,520 Speaker 1: I don't know. And she wrote once in her diary, 372 00:18:35,560 --> 00:18:38,280 Speaker 1: and I really like this quote, the essence of my 373 00:18:38,320 --> 00:18:41,720 Speaker 1: happiness is fighting for the happiness of others. It's strange. 374 00:18:41,840 --> 00:18:44,120 Speaker 1: Why is it that in grammar the word happiness can 375 00:18:44,160 --> 00:18:47,960 Speaker 1: only be singular, that is counter to its meaning. If 376 00:18:47,960 --> 00:18:51,399 Speaker 1: it if it turns necessary to die for the common happiness, 377 00:18:51,480 --> 00:18:57,760 Speaker 1: then I'm embraced to And on January twenty seventh, nineteen 378 00:18:57,840 --> 00:19:02,160 Speaker 1: forty five, after being opened by a shelf fragment, she died. 379 00:19:03,800 --> 00:19:06,320 Speaker 2: Wow, and getting close to the end. 380 00:19:06,200 --> 00:19:10,919 Speaker 1: Too, frankly, No, I know, I am. She'd killed at 381 00:19:11,000 --> 00:19:13,280 Speaker 1: least fifty nine Nazis by the time she died, and 382 00:19:13,320 --> 00:19:19,280 Speaker 1: she was only twenty years old. And she died fighting 383 00:19:19,280 --> 00:19:23,120 Speaker 1: for the happiness of others, which she wrote explicitly she 384 00:19:23,200 --> 00:19:28,199 Speaker 1: was braced to do so, you know. Or take Nina Petrova, 385 00:19:28,520 --> 00:19:31,160 Speaker 1: who was a gym teacher and a sniper instructor who 386 00:19:31,160 --> 00:19:34,240 Speaker 1: helped invade Finland. Actually so wasn't doing so good in 387 00:19:34,240 --> 00:19:37,119 Speaker 1: that particular one from my point of view, But she 388 00:19:37,280 --> 00:19:40,000 Speaker 1: was too old to be drafted. When Operation Barbarossa hit. 389 00:19:40,320 --> 00:19:41,879 Speaker 1: She was in her late forties by the time the 390 00:19:41,960 --> 00:19:47,399 Speaker 1: war started, but she volunteered and she died actually on 391 00:19:47,440 --> 00:19:49,840 Speaker 1: May first, nineteen forty five, just days before the end 392 00:19:49,880 --> 00:19:53,679 Speaker 1: of the war. She trained five hundred and twelve snipers 393 00:19:54,200 --> 00:19:56,720 Speaker 1: and she personally killed one hundred and twenty two enemy 394 00:19:56,720 --> 00:20:01,159 Speaker 1: soldiers and she was fifty one years old. There's a 395 00:20:01,160 --> 00:20:05,440 Speaker 1: special place in my heart for the like in one 396 00:20:05,440 --> 00:20:07,320 Speaker 1: of the books I wrote, I call them the Gray Brigade, 397 00:20:07,440 --> 00:20:10,080 Speaker 1: the people who like the veterans who like actually don't 398 00:20:10,080 --> 00:20:11,640 Speaker 1: need to fight. They're like old enough that no one's 399 00:20:11,640 --> 00:20:13,159 Speaker 1: going to give them shit, you know. 400 00:20:13,680 --> 00:20:15,439 Speaker 2: Yeah, It's like the person in the movie when they 401 00:20:15,440 --> 00:20:17,080 Speaker 2: get to them and they're a veteran from the war 402 00:20:17,119 --> 00:20:21,280 Speaker 2: before and they're like, I know stuff. Yeah, but but no. 403 00:20:21,320 --> 00:20:23,840 Speaker 2: It's fascinating to see again, as we talked about in 404 00:20:23,840 --> 00:20:27,160 Speaker 2: the other episode, how not only the fortitude of these women, 405 00:20:27,200 --> 00:20:30,440 Speaker 2: but also how the skill is transcends that. 406 00:20:30,440 --> 00:20:35,600 Speaker 1: Of age or gender. It's like it's it's the person, right, absolutely. Yeah, 407 00:20:35,720 --> 00:20:38,200 Speaker 1: This fifty one year old woman killed fucking one hundred 408 00:20:38,200 --> 00:20:41,000 Speaker 1: and twenty two people and trained five hundred and twelve people, 409 00:20:41,040 --> 00:20:43,560 Speaker 1: which is literally she trained a fifth of the snipers, 410 00:20:43,880 --> 00:20:44,160 Speaker 1: you know. 411 00:20:44,200 --> 00:20:46,880 Speaker 2: Butterfly effect of how many fascists died because of her 412 00:20:46,920 --> 00:20:48,119 Speaker 2: actions is immeasurable. 413 00:20:48,200 --> 00:20:53,639 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, exactly. Very few women were involved directly in 414 00:20:53,680 --> 00:20:57,360 Speaker 1: the infantry. Snipers are technically infantry, but the non sniper 415 00:20:57,440 --> 00:21:01,840 Speaker 1: infantry women ran anti aircraft guns and sometimes actually would 416 00:21:01,840 --> 00:21:04,440 Speaker 1: then like that would turn into hand to hand fighting, 417 00:21:04,600 --> 00:21:07,240 Speaker 1: you know, during sieges and stuff. They drove tanks and 418 00:21:07,280 --> 00:21:12,840 Speaker 1: they ran machine guns. There's a Ukrainian woman, Maria Otkabrovskiya, 419 00:21:13,920 --> 00:21:19,240 Speaker 1: and she's one of my favorites. I want the movie 420 00:21:19,240 --> 00:21:22,520 Speaker 1: of her. Her husband died in the fighting, and she 421 00:21:22,560 --> 00:21:25,240 Speaker 1: didn't find out for like two years because she'd retreated 422 00:21:25,240 --> 00:21:28,640 Speaker 1: from the front, right, and she was an army wife, 423 00:21:28,680 --> 00:21:30,720 Speaker 1: and she mostly just wrote about like being an army wife. 424 00:21:30,760 --> 00:21:32,760 Speaker 1: She was like being an army wife rules I actually 425 00:21:32,800 --> 00:21:34,639 Speaker 1: this is like an important part of the military. I 426 00:21:34,640 --> 00:21:37,000 Speaker 1: do all this stuff, you know. And then her husband 427 00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:38,639 Speaker 1: goes to the front during the war, and she like 428 00:21:38,680 --> 00:21:42,119 Speaker 1: retreats off to somewhere safe. She finds out two years 429 00:21:42,160 --> 00:21:45,360 Speaker 1: later that he's died. The war is still going on. 430 00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:48,399 Speaker 1: She sells everything she owns. She's not a rich woman. 431 00:21:49,119 --> 00:21:51,879 Speaker 1: She sells everything she owns to buy a tank and 432 00:21:51,920 --> 00:21:54,760 Speaker 1: then she donates it to the Red Army with one condition. 433 00:21:55,800 --> 00:21:58,679 Speaker 1: I will give you a tank. I am the driver 434 00:21:58,800 --> 00:22:05,960 Speaker 1: of this tank, the original killdozer. This one was named 435 00:22:06,480 --> 00:22:07,679 Speaker 1: the Fighting Girlfriend. 436 00:22:08,800 --> 00:22:09,320 Speaker 2: Amazing. 437 00:22:09,880 --> 00:22:14,119 Speaker 1: Yeah, she was thirty eight years old and she just 438 00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:16,520 Speaker 1: she took it into battle after battle, she took out 439 00:22:16,560 --> 00:22:21,119 Speaker 1: machine gun nests, she took out artillery, and then one day, 440 00:22:21,240 --> 00:22:24,480 Speaker 1: you know this was not going to last. She was killed. 441 00:22:24,520 --> 00:22:26,879 Speaker 1: She was killed role repairing her tank in the field. 442 00:22:27,960 --> 00:22:30,439 Speaker 1: And how come it's always movies about a guy on 443 00:22:30,480 --> 00:22:33,280 Speaker 1: a murder rampage after his wife is killed when this story, 444 00:22:33,359 --> 00:22:36,959 Speaker 1: lady's story is right there, That's what I want to know. 445 00:22:37,720 --> 00:22:40,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, listen up, Hollywood, this is good. All of these 446 00:22:40,720 --> 00:22:42,879 Speaker 2: are great stories that should be told over and over 447 00:22:42,920 --> 00:22:46,520 Speaker 2: again and have been, yeah, to a large degree, intentionally 448 00:22:46,560 --> 00:22:49,600 Speaker 2: ignored because it doesn't serve the other narratives. Yep. 449 00:22:50,680 --> 00:22:52,639 Speaker 1: And then there's the most famous of the women units, 450 00:22:52,960 --> 00:22:55,600 Speaker 1: the Night Witches. But I'm not going to let you 451 00:22:55,640 --> 00:23:00,000 Speaker 1: hear about them until you hear about I want something good. 452 00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:04,680 Speaker 1: We could advertise this show is sponsored by having three 453 00:23:04,760 --> 00:23:05,920 Speaker 1: days worth of food and water. 454 00:23:07,800 --> 00:23:09,800 Speaker 3: I was gonna say it's sponsored by tea. 455 00:23:10,680 --> 00:23:12,000 Speaker 1: Oh, tea is good. 456 00:23:12,520 --> 00:23:14,600 Speaker 2: And building a community with your neighbor. 457 00:23:15,119 --> 00:23:17,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's sponsored by building a community with your neighbor 458 00:23:17,800 --> 00:23:18,640 Speaker 1: by inviting them to. 459 00:23:18,560 --> 00:23:22,120 Speaker 3: Tea trick tea with your neighbor. That's our sponsor. 460 00:23:22,800 --> 00:23:24,040 Speaker 2: Yep. And share hard tech. 461 00:23:24,400 --> 00:23:27,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, and if anything else comes up again, just direct 462 00:23:27,800 --> 00:23:29,640 Speaker 1: that to our complaints department. You know how to find 463 00:23:29,640 --> 00:23:39,479 Speaker 1: it on Twitter. And we're back. So you know, there 464 00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:41,720 Speaker 1: have been all women units in the before Soviet times 465 00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:44,160 Speaker 1: because a woman who had personal connections with the authoritary 466 00:23:44,200 --> 00:23:48,399 Speaker 1: elite head of state got special permission. Welcome to history 467 00:23:48,480 --> 00:23:53,600 Speaker 1: repeating itself. You just reading podcast again. 468 00:23:58,840 --> 00:24:00,320 Speaker 2: That's a good one because you can just just like 469 00:24:00,440 --> 00:24:02,960 Speaker 2: do the next episode the same again, over and over again, 470 00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:05,720 Speaker 2: because these stories are so consistent, aren't they. I know? 471 00:24:05,800 --> 00:24:09,359 Speaker 1: Yeah, I actually just take a mad libs and I 472 00:24:09,480 --> 00:24:13,040 Speaker 1: like swap in like authoritarian leader Margaret dislikes. 473 00:24:13,160 --> 00:24:13,359 Speaker 3: You know. 474 00:24:16,440 --> 00:24:18,880 Speaker 1: So there's this woman who's not named Maria. Her name's 475 00:24:18,920 --> 00:24:23,480 Speaker 1: Marina Marina Reskova, and she's the first female navigator in 476 00:24:23,520 --> 00:24:25,760 Speaker 1: the Air Force and she's like and this is before 477 00:24:25,840 --> 00:24:29,440 Speaker 1: the war, and she's like called the Russian Amelia Earhart 478 00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:31,600 Speaker 1: and she's all famous, and shit, I don't like her. 479 00:24:32,119 --> 00:24:35,919 Speaker 1: She had a personal connection with Stalin almost certainly. The 480 00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:37,879 Speaker 1: personal connection she had with Stalin is because she was 481 00:24:37,880 --> 00:24:41,200 Speaker 1: an informer for the Secret Police during the Great Terror 482 00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:44,920 Speaker 1: and saw tons of people murdered over bullshit, including actually 483 00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:46,480 Speaker 1: the parents of one of the people that we're going 484 00:24:46,560 --> 00:24:50,400 Speaker 1: to talk about later. This is the period in time 485 00:24:50,440 --> 00:24:53,119 Speaker 1: when just tons and tons of loyal Communist Party folks 486 00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:57,199 Speaker 1: just got fucking murdered by their own side, including gutting 487 00:24:57,200 --> 00:25:00,240 Speaker 1: the military infrastructure. They'd also just killed the guy who 488 00:25:00,240 --> 00:25:02,680 Speaker 1: invented their new tank, the like T thirty four or 489 00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:03,480 Speaker 1: whatever it was called. 490 00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:06,760 Speaker 2: Stalin had a real pension for finding really great, the 491 00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:09,600 Speaker 2: best and brightest, and making sure they didn't live very long. 492 00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:14,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, which is not like a good thing to do 493 00:25:14,160 --> 00:25:16,320 Speaker 1: right before the Nazis aren't going to invade. In case 494 00:25:16,320 --> 00:25:18,560 Speaker 1: anyone listening is trying to figure out whether you want 495 00:25:18,560 --> 00:25:20,960 Speaker 1: to do something called the Great Purge or the Great 496 00:25:21,080 --> 00:25:23,880 Speaker 1: Terror right before the Nazis invade, you got time it differently, 497 00:25:24,359 --> 00:25:24,720 Speaker 1: Oh my. 498 00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:27,399 Speaker 2: Gosh, for everyone's suffering in a corporate existence. Nowadays, it's 499 00:25:27,400 --> 00:25:29,600 Speaker 2: the equivalent of the boss that won't hire someone better 500 00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:31,960 Speaker 2: than them because they're worried about their job. 501 00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:40,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, totally just that with tens of millions of lives, but. 502 00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:42,720 Speaker 2: Just put to the worst degree ever. Right, this guy 503 00:25:43,280 --> 00:25:47,159 Speaker 2: is so so concerned about himself and his own narcissism 504 00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:49,320 Speaker 2: that he can't deal with anyone being better than him. 505 00:25:49,560 --> 00:25:55,520 Speaker 1: Yeah. So, Marina, she's not a cool person doing cool stuff. 506 00:25:55,560 --> 00:25:58,959 Speaker 1: She's a bad person doing cool stuff. She uses her 507 00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:02,400 Speaker 1: connections with Stalin to get three all female flying regiments 508 00:26:02,440 --> 00:26:07,760 Speaker 1: formed on October eighth, nineteen forty one. Stalin's stated reason 509 00:26:07,840 --> 00:26:10,880 Speaker 1: for approving it was that all women units are good propaganda. 510 00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:15,680 Speaker 1: Once again, there's three units. One is a day bomber unit, 511 00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:17,600 Speaker 1: one is a night bomber unit, and one is a 512 00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:21,440 Speaker 1: fighter pilot unit. And this makes the USSR the first 513 00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:24,240 Speaker 1: country in the world that I'm aware of. Anytime I 514 00:26:24,280 --> 00:26:27,440 Speaker 1: say the first, it's like, you know, there's always something 515 00:26:27,520 --> 00:26:30,439 Speaker 1: but whatever, So the first country to let women conduct 516 00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:35,080 Speaker 1: flying combat operations. The most famous of these is the 517 00:26:35,160 --> 00:26:37,760 Speaker 1: night bomber unit, and they have a bunch of different names. 518 00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:41,719 Speaker 1: The most famous official name is because they changed their 519 00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:43,399 Speaker 1: official name a bunch of times over the course of 520 00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:45,720 Speaker 1: the war. Though I think the one they ended with 521 00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:47,399 Speaker 1: and the one that they usually remembered as well, it's 522 00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:49,000 Speaker 1: not what they usually remember it as, usually remember it 523 00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:52,640 Speaker 1: as their nickname, but the forty sixth Tommon Guards Night 524 00:26:52,760 --> 00:27:00,800 Speaker 1: Bomber Aviation Regiment a real catchy name. They flew old 525 00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:04,320 Speaker 1: biplanes that had been used for crop dusting and pilot training, 526 00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:06,800 Speaker 1: and one thing I was reading that kind of blew 527 00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:10,399 Speaker 1: my mind. They were so slow that they were really 528 00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:15,320 Speaker 1: effective in combat because their maximum speed was slower than 529 00:27:15,359 --> 00:27:18,840 Speaker 1: the stalling speed of the German planes. So it was 530 00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:21,000 Speaker 1: like hard for fighters to dogfight them. 531 00:27:21,600 --> 00:27:24,040 Speaker 2: Literally hit the brakes, they fly by you and you're 532 00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:24,760 Speaker 2: still in the air. 533 00:27:25,040 --> 00:27:26,000 Speaker 1: Yeah. 534 00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:29,440 Speaker 2: Wow, that's really that's that counterintuitive stuff, right, Everyone's trying 535 00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:31,679 Speaker 2: to go for more speed. Yeah, but in this instance 536 00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:34,480 Speaker 2: it's the exact opposite. Yeah. I did not know that, 537 00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:37,440 Speaker 2: and that's it makes sense, but you would not think 538 00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:37,880 Speaker 2: about it. 539 00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:40,560 Speaker 1: No, totally. And I think it's like they invented the 540 00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:43,280 Speaker 1: strategy that they're going to use, because it's I doubt 541 00:27:43,280 --> 00:27:45,000 Speaker 1: they're like, all right, we want biplanes because we're going 542 00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:47,320 Speaker 1: to do the following shit. I think the USSR was like, 543 00:27:47,359 --> 00:27:50,240 Speaker 1: all right, ladies, here's your crop dusters, and they were like, 544 00:27:50,280 --> 00:27:51,800 Speaker 1: all right, we'll still fuck up Nazis. 545 00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:54,560 Speaker 2: And it's a Johnny and Ammonic moment of when when 546 00:27:54,600 --> 00:27:57,359 Speaker 2: they go high tech go low tech. Yeah they did it, yeah, 547 00:27:57,359 --> 00:27:59,959 Speaker 2: but yeah, but because they were probably given the worst crap. 548 00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:04,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know, and overall, like the Soviet Union 549 00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:07,080 Speaker 1: started World War Two with like way the fuck more 550 00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:09,359 Speaker 1: planes and tanks than anyone else, but they also started 551 00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:12,080 Speaker 1: off with like oldest fuck tanks and planes compared to 552 00:28:12,080 --> 00:28:15,280 Speaker 1: everyone else. Some of the other people we're gonna be 553 00:28:15,280 --> 00:28:18,880 Speaker 1: talking about were also in fighters that were wood and fabric, 554 00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:22,239 Speaker 1: you know. So they fly up high and then they 555 00:28:22,240 --> 00:28:25,560 Speaker 1: purposefully stall their engines and glide down to bombing altitude 556 00:28:25,560 --> 00:28:28,439 Speaker 1: with their engines off, so the only sound their planes 557 00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:31,719 Speaker 1: are making is the wind passing through the you know, 558 00:28:32,240 --> 00:28:37,040 Speaker 1: biplane wings, which supposedly sounds like broomsticks in the night. 559 00:28:37,760 --> 00:28:41,200 Speaker 1: Thus the Germans called them the night Witches, or, just 560 00:28:41,240 --> 00:28:45,000 Speaker 1: as likely, the Soviets declared that the Germans called them 561 00:28:45,040 --> 00:28:48,440 Speaker 1: the night witches see the White Death and Lady Death. However, 562 00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:50,160 Speaker 1: it's still cool as fuck. 563 00:28:51,080 --> 00:28:52,840 Speaker 2: Oh it's a badass name. I mean, what could you 564 00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:54,960 Speaker 2: ask for better than that? Yeah. On top of that, 565 00:28:55,400 --> 00:28:58,800 Speaker 2: think about the the sand it takes to use an 566 00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:02,000 Speaker 2: old time term to do that, to like literally kill engines, 567 00:29:02,080 --> 00:29:05,720 Speaker 2: glide under without power, Yeah, into a combat area to 568 00:29:05,760 --> 00:29:08,400 Speaker 2: drop bombs. Is it takes a lot? 569 00:29:08,760 --> 00:29:12,800 Speaker 1: Yeah? Absolutely, And so they blow up Nazis and then 570 00:29:12,800 --> 00:29:15,120 Speaker 1: they turn their engines back on and race back up 571 00:29:15,120 --> 00:29:16,920 Speaker 1: out of anti aircraft range and get the fuck out 572 00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:20,280 Speaker 1: of there. That is the glamorized version of night bombing. 573 00:29:21,440 --> 00:29:25,000 Speaker 1: In practice, night bombing is less targeted and is more 574 00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:28,840 Speaker 1: of a weapon of terror and total war. British Prime 575 00:29:28,840 --> 00:29:31,520 Speaker 1: Minister Stanley Baldwin put it that the purpose of night 576 00:29:31,560 --> 00:29:34,920 Speaker 1: bombing was to quote kill the enemies, women and children 577 00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:36,440 Speaker 1: more rapidly than they killed ours. 578 00:29:38,200 --> 00:29:40,520 Speaker 2: The irony of this is and that is that consistently, 579 00:29:40,560 --> 00:29:42,080 Speaker 2: and correct me if I'm wrong or if you know 580 00:29:42,120 --> 00:29:45,040 Speaker 2: something differently? Is that that sort of terror bombing campaigns, 581 00:29:45,080 --> 00:29:47,880 Speaker 2: which night bombing would be because technology of its time 582 00:29:47,960 --> 00:29:50,400 Speaker 2: just didn't lend itself to the accuracy required to hit 583 00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:54,600 Speaker 2: quote strategic resources. It was entirely used to supposedly break 584 00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:57,080 Speaker 2: the morale of the enemy. But the truth was when 585 00:29:57,080 --> 00:29:59,120 Speaker 2: you came out and your home was gone from your 586 00:29:59,120 --> 00:30:01,200 Speaker 2: bunker and your home was gone and your family was dead, 587 00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:04,040 Speaker 2: and more often than not, just turns you into a 588 00:30:04,120 --> 00:30:06,120 Speaker 2: more stalwart enemy of whoever did it. 589 00:30:07,120 --> 00:30:10,680 Speaker 1: I think that that's true. I have a friend who 590 00:30:11,080 --> 00:30:12,600 Speaker 1: I don't know if mentioned this on the show or 591 00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:16,400 Speaker 1: not before. I have a friend who his grandparents were Nazis, 592 00:30:16,840 --> 00:30:21,880 Speaker 1: and they started the war fiercely anti Nazi, and then 593 00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:24,120 Speaker 1: after the Allies killed ninety percent of their family in 594 00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:28,120 Speaker 1: a bombing raid on their city, they joined up for 595 00:30:28,120 --> 00:30:32,560 Speaker 1: the Nazis the next day. And like, that's a. 596 00:30:32,520 --> 00:30:35,480 Speaker 2: Weird situation to be caught in where you're against what's 597 00:30:35,520 --> 00:30:38,880 Speaker 2: going on, but at the same time, the end result 598 00:30:39,080 --> 00:30:42,120 Speaker 2: is you or everyone you care and loving about love 599 00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:45,400 Speaker 2: dying in the process. That's a challenging problem to be in. 600 00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:48,840 Speaker 2: You defend yourself against American air raids that might destroy 601 00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:52,160 Speaker 2: Nazism when it's your life on the line in the process. 602 00:30:52,200 --> 00:30:53,959 Speaker 2: That's a weird problem, I know. 603 00:30:54,080 --> 00:30:56,680 Speaker 1: And it's like I have this like easy out in 604 00:30:56,720 --> 00:30:58,880 Speaker 1: that I hold myself to this ridiculous moral standard, so 605 00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:03,200 Speaker 1: I'd be like, well, i'd be almost the gay, trans 606 00:31:03,240 --> 00:31:06,240 Speaker 1: woman anarchist, so like I wouldn't have any other choice 607 00:31:06,280 --> 00:31:08,520 Speaker 1: in this matter I would be fighting the Nazis and 608 00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:11,719 Speaker 1: a partisan sense, or having escaped the country. But like 609 00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:16,720 Speaker 1: for people who hadn't had to make certain decisions yet, right, 610 00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:21,000 Speaker 1: you know, Like I don't think that grandparents made the 611 00:31:21,040 --> 00:31:23,560 Speaker 1: right decision, but I can't imagine most people making any 612 00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:24,000 Speaker 1: other one. 613 00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:27,160 Speaker 2: You know. The best argument here is that terror bombing 614 00:31:27,240 --> 00:31:30,160 Speaker 2: is a bad idea, Like perhaps that's just maybe that's 615 00:31:30,200 --> 00:31:31,320 Speaker 2: the lesson to be learned here. 616 00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:35,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, no, totally. And I've read a little bit about 617 00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:37,960 Speaker 1: the Night Witches where they talk about like actually trying 618 00:31:37,960 --> 00:31:40,760 Speaker 1: to hit things accurately. Like there's a one account where 619 00:31:40,760 --> 00:31:45,440 Speaker 1: like a woman goes over her target three times because 620 00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:47,640 Speaker 1: she thinks that she's not over the right target because 621 00:31:47,680 --> 00:31:50,680 Speaker 1: no one's shooting at her, and she's like this is 622 00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:53,920 Speaker 1: too important a target for them to not be shooting 623 00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:57,080 Speaker 1: at me. Therefore I'm not over the target. And so 624 00:31:57,240 --> 00:32:01,720 Speaker 1: like there is a like sense it's like I don't 625 00:32:01,720 --> 00:32:04,440 Speaker 1: have any information about the night which is specifically just 626 00:32:04,520 --> 00:32:08,240 Speaker 1: doing terror bombing, and it's like blurry, you know. And 627 00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:12,560 Speaker 1: I do have the numbers. I don't have numbers of 628 00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:15,160 Speaker 1: how many civilians they killed, but I have the numbers 629 00:32:15,160 --> 00:32:17,880 Speaker 1: on the Nazi infrastructure they destroyed. So the information that's 630 00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:20,400 Speaker 1: available to me, they are cool people doing cool stuff. 631 00:32:21,120 --> 00:32:24,600 Speaker 1: With the information as possible, they are cool people doing 632 00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:27,680 Speaker 1: interesting stuff. I don't know how to you know whatever, 633 00:32:28,360 --> 00:32:30,840 Speaker 1: sitting in moral judgment, that's the other name of this podcast. 634 00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:34,000 Speaker 2: It is also possible that with old antiquated bioplanes that 635 00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:36,880 Speaker 2: they were trying to do targeted bombiting, because that typical 636 00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:40,760 Speaker 2: night bombing campaigns there were terror campaigns were like, you know, 637 00:32:41,040 --> 00:32:45,400 Speaker 2: three hundred b seventeens dropping zillions of tons of munitions 638 00:32:45,440 --> 00:32:47,320 Speaker 2: and they couldn't do that. They didn't have the kind 639 00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:49,160 Speaker 2: of planes total made that possible. 640 00:32:49,240 --> 00:32:50,680 Speaker 1: So all these are fucking crop dusters. 641 00:32:50,760 --> 00:32:50,960 Speaker 2: Yeah. 642 00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:53,240 Speaker 1: No, that's a really good point. The night which is 643 00:32:53,280 --> 00:32:56,520 Speaker 1: were forty two person crews at a time, and not 644 00:32:56,600 --> 00:32:58,920 Speaker 1: at each raid, but you know, at it there's forty 645 00:32:58,960 --> 00:33:01,640 Speaker 1: planes in the night which is set up, and they 646 00:33:01,720 --> 00:33:05,000 Speaker 1: dropped three thousand tons of bombs and twenty six thousand 647 00:33:05,040 --> 00:33:09,400 Speaker 1: incendiary shells. They destroyed seventeen river crossings, nine railways, two 648 00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:12,880 Speaker 1: railway stations, twenty six warehouses, twelve fuel depots, one hundred 649 00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:15,920 Speaker 1: and seventy six armored cars, eighty six firing points and 650 00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:17,040 Speaker 1: eleven search lights. 651 00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:22,560 Speaker 2: So to put this into context, one fire bombing campaign 652 00:33:22,600 --> 00:33:27,640 Speaker 2: against Frankfurt was twelve one and ninety seven tons. That's 653 00:33:27,680 --> 00:33:30,240 Speaker 2: one one bombing campaign the US did in. 654 00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:32,920 Speaker 1: A terrible Ah. Yeah, yeah, so this puts this into 655 00:33:32,960 --> 00:33:37,719 Speaker 1: direct contracts contrast. No, No, that that's really useful. That 656 00:33:37,800 --> 00:33:40,440 Speaker 1: is useful information I have because I really like the 657 00:33:40,560 --> 00:33:43,480 Speaker 1: night Witches, you know, like, how can you not They're 658 00:33:43,480 --> 00:33:44,480 Speaker 1: the fucking night Witches. 659 00:33:45,280 --> 00:33:47,040 Speaker 2: And yeah, I'm just rolling through this and we're talking 660 00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:51,200 Speaker 2: like fifteen thousand tons, twenty thousand tons dropped on sebastopool alone, 661 00:33:51,240 --> 00:33:54,200 Speaker 2: Like the numbers here put into contrast. Hell yeah, they 662 00:33:54,200 --> 00:33:57,560 Speaker 2: probably were trying to be targeted in their aiming. Well. 663 00:33:58,160 --> 00:34:00,440 Speaker 1: A total of two hundred and sixty one, which is 664 00:34:00,520 --> 00:34:03,600 Speaker 1: served thirty two of them died during the war from 665 00:34:03,600 --> 00:34:07,360 Speaker 1: a combination of plane crashes, combat deaths, and friend of 666 00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:13,440 Speaker 1: the pod tuberculosis. And I hope that one day some 667 00:34:13,600 --> 00:34:15,920 Speaker 1: kid who grows up listening to this podcast is going 668 00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:18,960 Speaker 1: to grow up thinking about tuberculosis the way I grew 669 00:34:19,040 --> 00:34:23,160 Speaker 1: up thinking about quicksand you know, because it's like fucking 670 00:34:23,239 --> 00:34:24,160 Speaker 1: everywhere in fiction. 671 00:34:25,239 --> 00:34:27,200 Speaker 2: Oh, it's always going to get you I it's still 672 00:34:27,239 --> 00:34:29,960 Speaker 2: probably out there waiting. I guess tuberculosis is coming back 673 00:34:29,960 --> 00:34:31,440 Speaker 2: there so it can be afraid of that again. 674 00:34:31,520 --> 00:34:35,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, and the developing world or the fucked over world, 675 00:34:35,160 --> 00:34:36,640 Speaker 1: or however you want a phrase. It still suffers a 676 00:34:36,680 --> 00:34:40,239 Speaker 1: lot with tuberculosis. But it's just funny because it is 677 00:34:40,280 --> 00:34:41,520 Speaker 1: in every fucking episode. 678 00:34:42,160 --> 00:34:46,080 Speaker 2: Well, when the antibiotic strains collapsed, then it'll come back. 679 00:34:46,320 --> 00:34:50,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, something that'll look forward to. Some of the night, 680 00:34:50,640 --> 00:34:53,240 Speaker 1: which is did crazy shit like one of them survived 681 00:34:53,239 --> 00:34:57,319 Speaker 1: three different plane crashes and then kept doing it. One 682 00:34:57,400 --> 00:34:59,960 Speaker 1: faked a crash landing to like throw off her attack. 683 00:35:00,320 --> 00:35:03,160 Speaker 1: She just nose dived with the engines off, like oh god, 684 00:35:03,239 --> 00:35:05,480 Speaker 1: you got me, and then like last minute like pulled 685 00:35:05,520 --> 00:35:07,239 Speaker 1: away because you're in a fucking crop duster. It's meant 686 00:35:07,239 --> 00:35:08,759 Speaker 1: to fly close to the ground and shit, you know. 687 00:35:09,560 --> 00:35:11,319 Speaker 1: One of them had all of her legs broken in 688 00:35:11,320 --> 00:35:13,920 Speaker 1: a crash and returned to flying missions despite the doctor 689 00:35:13,960 --> 00:35:15,719 Speaker 1: being like, you can't do that. All of your legs 690 00:35:15,719 --> 00:35:18,799 Speaker 1: are broken, and she's like, got Nazis to kill. Don't 691 00:35:18,800 --> 00:35:22,759 Speaker 1: know what to tell you. They're coolest shit. I don't 692 00:35:22,760 --> 00:35:25,600 Speaker 1: know a ton about the day Bomber unit but I 693 00:35:25,640 --> 00:35:28,319 Speaker 1: know a bit about some of the fighter units. I 694 00:35:28,360 --> 00:35:31,520 Speaker 1: think the other two units didn't stay all women long. 695 00:35:31,920 --> 00:35:34,120 Speaker 1: The Fighter Regiment at least sometimes had to use men 696 00:35:34,160 --> 00:35:36,440 Speaker 1: as tailgunners because not enough of the women recruited were 697 00:35:36,480 --> 00:35:38,839 Speaker 1: tall enough to operate the tailgun of the plane, which 698 00:35:38,840 --> 00:35:41,759 Speaker 1: had obviously been designed by a man putting up by 699 00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:48,440 Speaker 1: Stalin Orsimo. There is one fighter pilot, though, who stands 700 00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:51,239 Speaker 1: out to me, who is probably my favorite person this 701 00:35:51,320 --> 00:35:54,680 Speaker 1: whole week. And she's the one who like whenever I 702 00:35:54,960 --> 00:35:56,920 Speaker 1: have my friends that when I'm doing my research, I 703 00:35:56,960 --> 00:35:58,719 Speaker 1: like messages of being like, oh my god, I found 704 00:35:58,760 --> 00:36:02,040 Speaker 1: the coolest thing, you know, And the coolest thing that 705 00:36:02,120 --> 00:36:10,240 Speaker 1: I found was these screaming deals. Sophie's at work. Sophie 706 00:36:10,320 --> 00:36:14,040 Speaker 1: is giving me an enthusiastic thumbs up and nodding vigorously, 707 00:36:14,560 --> 00:36:20,560 Speaker 1: and I'm totally not deny this. Yeah, okay, Well, here's 708 00:36:21,480 --> 00:36:24,600 Speaker 1: some other podcasts you can listen to and or stuff 709 00:36:24,719 --> 00:36:31,480 Speaker 1: to get. And we'rebecca and I'm really impressed that Sophie 710 00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:35,040 Speaker 1: managed to get all of those different night waking groups 711 00:36:35,080 --> 00:36:37,080 Speaker 1: to sponsor the podcast. At last minute. 712 00:36:38,239 --> 00:36:41,280 Speaker 3: I do not sleep. All I do is think about ads. 713 00:36:41,960 --> 00:36:43,839 Speaker 1: I mean, that's probably true, even though what I said 714 00:36:43,880 --> 00:36:47,360 Speaker 1: was a lie. Don't sleep parts true. 715 00:36:47,800 --> 00:36:56,480 Speaker 4: Yeah, well, you ever heard of the woman who has 716 00:36:56,560 --> 00:36:58,600 Speaker 4: the most kills as a fighter pilot? 717 00:37:00,400 --> 00:37:05,160 Speaker 2: No, I have not. Sadly, the most famous fighter pilot 718 00:37:05,239 --> 00:37:08,440 Speaker 2: or woman pilot I can think of was a bad 719 00:37:08,480 --> 00:37:10,400 Speaker 2: person that did cool stuff. But we'll talk about her 720 00:37:10,440 --> 00:37:10,879 Speaker 2: another day. 721 00:37:10,960 --> 00:37:12,920 Speaker 1: Oh okay, wait, who is it? 722 00:37:13,920 --> 00:37:16,880 Speaker 2: Hannah Reich who was the test pilot for the Nazis. 723 00:37:17,880 --> 00:37:21,160 Speaker 2: She did some wild stuff flying one of the first helicopters, 724 00:37:21,600 --> 00:37:27,160 Speaker 2: test flying the three rocket jet. She flew into Berlin 725 00:37:27,200 --> 00:37:28,520 Speaker 2: when it was under siege at the end of the 726 00:37:28,560 --> 00:37:31,120 Speaker 2: war to try to get Hitler to leave under gunfire. 727 00:37:31,200 --> 00:37:36,080 Speaker 2: Like crazy stuff. Damn But bad person that did cool things. Yeah, no, 728 00:37:36,360 --> 00:37:38,759 Speaker 2: is she did such cool things that she actually has 729 00:37:38,800 --> 00:37:42,279 Speaker 2: to be referenced in air museums regularly because she did 730 00:37:42,280 --> 00:37:44,640 Speaker 2: so many achievements in terms of test piloting. 731 00:37:46,600 --> 00:37:49,560 Speaker 1: That's got to be so awkward every single time, you know. 732 00:37:49,880 --> 00:37:51,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, you go into the museum and it's like there's 733 00:37:51,560 --> 00:37:54,040 Speaker 2: like there's actually a in Tucson, of all places, at 734 00:37:54,040 --> 00:37:57,160 Speaker 2: the museum, there's a list of like famous pilots and 735 00:37:57,200 --> 00:38:00,200 Speaker 2: famous women pilots and they have Hannah Reich there, Like, 736 00:38:00,239 --> 00:38:01,719 Speaker 2: I guess we got to put this black up. 737 00:38:02,400 --> 00:38:07,000 Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, that's the thing about identity politics is 738 00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:10,200 Speaker 1: that it is a useful. It is a useful thing 739 00:38:10,480 --> 00:38:13,640 Speaker 1: to care about, like people at the intersection of different 740 00:38:13,640 --> 00:38:16,160 Speaker 1: oppressions like overcoming barriers and all this shit. It is 741 00:38:16,200 --> 00:38:19,200 Speaker 1: a useful thing. And I am proud of the work 742 00:38:19,239 --> 00:38:22,359 Speaker 1: that women's system trands have done. And like you know 743 00:38:23,680 --> 00:38:27,520 Speaker 1: that said, it doesn't make you a good person if 744 00:38:27,520 --> 00:38:32,160 Speaker 1: you have if you're oppressed along a particular access hey axis. 745 00:38:32,200 --> 00:38:36,760 Speaker 2: In this case, History is difficult and muddy, and human 746 00:38:37,120 --> 00:38:41,520 Speaker 2: culture and relations are not easily put into any form 747 00:38:41,560 --> 00:38:42,000 Speaker 2: of box. 748 00:38:42,200 --> 00:38:48,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, but I'm going to put Lydia Litvic into the 749 00:38:48,440 --> 00:38:51,399 Speaker 1: box of my favorite person this week. She is one 750 00:38:51,400 --> 00:38:53,600 Speaker 1: of two women in history to earn the title of 751 00:38:53,640 --> 00:38:57,879 Speaker 1: Flying Ace, which means you've brought down five or more enemies. Right, 752 00:38:58,000 --> 00:38:59,880 Speaker 1: this is no long it's not. I don't know if 753 00:38:59,880 --> 00:39:01,600 Speaker 1: they still a lion ases or not. 754 00:39:02,280 --> 00:39:04,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, no, they do, and it's still five I believe. 755 00:39:04,440 --> 00:39:08,840 Speaker 1: Okay. The other woman who has this honor is also 756 00:39:08,840 --> 00:39:12,160 Speaker 1: a Soviet World War two pilot. Lydia was the first 757 00:39:12,200 --> 00:39:14,640 Speaker 1: woman in history to kill enemy combatants in the air. 758 00:39:15,600 --> 00:39:18,480 Speaker 1: She fought for two years. She flew sixty six missions 759 00:39:18,800 --> 00:39:20,640 Speaker 1: and she took down and most of these aren't like, 760 00:39:21,320 --> 00:39:23,480 Speaker 1: go kill a guy, right, Most of these missions are like, 761 00:39:23,600 --> 00:39:26,600 Speaker 1: escort these bombers. Right. So it's not like the fact 762 00:39:26,640 --> 00:39:29,319 Speaker 1: that she only quote unquote only has somewhere between seven 763 00:39:29,360 --> 00:39:32,000 Speaker 1: and sixteen victories out of sixty six missions. It's like, 764 00:39:32,719 --> 00:39:34,200 Speaker 1: the best mission is when you don't have to have 765 00:39:34,200 --> 00:39:36,319 Speaker 1: any victories. You just escort the bombers, you know. 766 00:39:36,600 --> 00:39:38,879 Speaker 2: Yeah, the real mission is how many bombers get back home? 767 00:39:39,160 --> 00:39:43,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, totally, totally Yeah. So she takes down between seven 768 00:39:43,560 --> 00:39:47,359 Speaker 1: and sixteen victor enemy planes, depending on who's counting. She's 769 00:39:47,400 --> 00:39:49,440 Speaker 1: born to a Jewish family and her father was a 770 00:39:49,440 --> 00:39:52,560 Speaker 1: Party communist, but he was arrested and purged as an 771 00:39:52,680 --> 00:39:56,280 Speaker 1: enemy of the people when when Lydia was a child 772 00:39:56,560 --> 00:40:01,759 Speaker 1: as part of the Great Terror, So the Party commissar 773 00:40:02,000 --> 00:40:04,800 Speaker 1: was always getting Lydia in trouble. During her military career. 774 00:40:05,320 --> 00:40:08,239 Speaker 1: She would show no remorse for slipping out at night 775 00:40:08,280 --> 00:40:10,879 Speaker 1: to go dance with the men. They'd like bring her 776 00:40:10,920 --> 00:40:13,480 Speaker 1: to like trial and be like, are you sorry you 777 00:40:13,600 --> 00:40:15,640 Speaker 1: danced with the men and She's like, no, we're all 778 00:40:15,680 --> 00:40:19,239 Speaker 1: about to die. I danced with some men, you know. 779 00:40:20,200 --> 00:40:24,040 Speaker 1: Her commissar called her as an insult, a swanky, flirtatious 780 00:40:24,080 --> 00:40:29,799 Speaker 1: Avia Trix. Wait, what a name? I know, I know. 781 00:40:29,920 --> 00:40:33,239 Speaker 1: I'm certain she took this as a compliment. She lied 782 00:40:33,280 --> 00:40:36,239 Speaker 1: on her military application. She exaggerated her hours in the 783 00:40:36,640 --> 00:40:38,799 Speaker 1: in the air by like one hundred. In order to 784 00:40:38,800 --> 00:40:40,479 Speaker 1: be you have to have a certain number of hours 785 00:40:40,520 --> 00:40:44,239 Speaker 1: to get into this, like you know, fighting airplane crew 786 00:40:44,320 --> 00:40:45,840 Speaker 1: or whatever. She was like, oh yeah, I have like 787 00:40:45,840 --> 00:40:49,759 Speaker 1: a hundred more, and I actually do. Eventually, they caught her, 788 00:40:49,800 --> 00:40:52,799 Speaker 1: but they couldn't ground her because she was so fucking good. 789 00:40:53,680 --> 00:40:55,960 Speaker 1: She flew on a piece of shitplane, a yak one 790 00:40:56,040 --> 00:40:59,560 Speaker 1: bee made of fabric and wood with one engine. She 791 00:40:59,600 --> 00:41:01,680 Speaker 1: would do shit like when she's coming in for a landing, 792 00:41:01,760 --> 00:41:04,360 Speaker 1: she would like fly bonus acrobatics. That would like piss 793 00:41:04,360 --> 00:41:07,040 Speaker 1: off her commanders because she's endangering herself for no reason, 794 00:41:07,200 --> 00:41:12,319 Speaker 1: you know, and she's a fem hero. They made all 795 00:41:12,360 --> 00:41:15,520 Speaker 1: the women cut their hair short, and she was like, fine, 796 00:41:15,520 --> 00:41:17,080 Speaker 1: if I have to cut my hair short. She threw 797 00:41:17,120 --> 00:41:19,400 Speaker 1: a fit about it. But when she they're like, all right, 798 00:41:19,440 --> 00:41:21,600 Speaker 1: I'm gonna cut my hair short. I'm gonna bleach it. 799 00:41:21,800 --> 00:41:23,920 Speaker 1: And she sent a friend out to get hydrogen peroxide 800 00:41:23,960 --> 00:41:27,160 Speaker 1: so she could bleach her hair. She dyed and sewed 801 00:41:27,239 --> 00:41:31,520 Speaker 1: colorful scarves from parachute materials taken from captured German pilots. 802 00:41:31,920 --> 00:41:35,120 Speaker 1: Right like the fucking POWs. She just like steal their 803 00:41:35,120 --> 00:41:38,600 Speaker 1: fucking parachutes and make fucking victory scarves out of them. 804 00:41:40,239 --> 00:41:42,880 Speaker 1: She kept a picture of red roses in her cockpit, 805 00:41:43,520 --> 00:41:46,520 Speaker 1: and every morning she picked fresh wildflowers and filled her 806 00:41:46,520 --> 00:41:51,000 Speaker 1: cockpit with fresh wild flowers. She also scattered wildflowers on 807 00:41:51,040 --> 00:41:52,920 Speaker 1: the wings of her of the plane as sort of 808 00:41:52,920 --> 00:41:57,640 Speaker 1: a ritual in the mornings before combat. There are these 809 00:41:57,760 --> 00:42:00,640 Speaker 1: probably false go ahead, what. 810 00:42:00,640 --> 00:42:03,360 Speaker 2: An awesome human being, I mean, like all of this together. 811 00:42:03,560 --> 00:42:06,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, no, yeah, no, I just like, oh my gosh, yeah, yeah, 812 00:42:06,600 --> 00:42:08,239 Speaker 1: I'm she fucking rules. 813 00:42:08,320 --> 00:42:09,960 Speaker 2: I'm looking at I'm looking at a picture of her 814 00:42:10,000 --> 00:42:11,840 Speaker 2: right now with the hair cut like you're described, and 815 00:42:12,480 --> 00:42:15,320 Speaker 2: oh yeah, she cuts an impressive visage. Let's say, yeah, 816 00:42:15,400 --> 00:42:19,960 Speaker 2: that is true. And there are these probably false rumors 817 00:42:19,960 --> 00:42:21,839 Speaker 2: that she had a white lily painted on the side 818 00:42:21,840 --> 00:42:24,160 Speaker 2: of her plane. I'm sure she would have done it, 819 00:42:24,480 --> 00:42:26,759 Speaker 2: but everyone shared planes, and the men might not have 820 00:42:26,800 --> 00:42:28,879 Speaker 2: gone for it. She didn't have like her plane right. 821 00:42:29,960 --> 00:42:32,480 Speaker 2: At one point, she was arrested by her own side 822 00:42:32,520 --> 00:42:35,080 Speaker 2: for sewing fur into the collar of her uniform. Basically 823 00:42:35,160 --> 00:42:37,279 Speaker 2: she's just always getting written up, but for being like 824 00:42:38,000 --> 00:42:42,640 Speaker 2: too cool. A few weeks before her first mission, she 825 00:42:42,680 --> 00:42:45,240 Speaker 2: wrote a letter to her mother, and part of it is, quote, 826 00:42:46,360 --> 00:42:49,520 Speaker 2: what can be in store for me? Either something wonderful 827 00:42:49,560 --> 00:42:52,960 Speaker 2: and magnificent, where everything might collapse in an instant into 828 00:42:53,000 --> 00:42:56,480 Speaker 2: the ordinary routine of the civilian life which ordinary sinners live. 829 00:42:57,360 --> 00:42:59,880 Speaker 2: Of course, I want to live, if only a little, 830 00:43:00,480 --> 00:43:03,960 Speaker 2: but a wild, interesting life. The hour will soon come 831 00:43:04,040 --> 00:43:06,520 Speaker 2: when we shall soar on the wings of hawks, and 832 00:43:06,560 --> 00:43:10,359 Speaker 2: the life we live will be very different. So she's 833 00:43:10,400 --> 00:43:17,360 Speaker 2: just like fucking yolo nihilist anti fascist fem is, just 834 00:43:17,360 --> 00:43:20,760 Speaker 2: just keep liking her more. I want to say something amazing, 835 00:43:20,800 --> 00:43:23,200 Speaker 2: but like, frankly, that left me kind of speechless. It's 836 00:43:23,200 --> 00:43:26,839 Speaker 2: so powerful and stunning and what I what I would 837 00:43:26,840 --> 00:43:29,399 Speaker 2: want to live up to, like on my giving Yeah right, 838 00:43:29,440 --> 00:43:30,000 Speaker 2: I mean that's. 839 00:43:29,880 --> 00:43:35,160 Speaker 1: Amazing, Yeah, totally. The first Nazi she downed was she 840 00:43:35,239 --> 00:43:37,040 Speaker 1: took two down in the first fight, but one of them, 841 00:43:37,080 --> 00:43:39,600 Speaker 1: survived and became a POW. And there's a couple versions 842 00:43:39,600 --> 00:43:41,920 Speaker 1: of this. One is that he like insists to be like, 843 00:43:42,360 --> 00:43:44,520 Speaker 1: I want to see the person who the I want 844 00:43:44,560 --> 00:43:46,799 Speaker 1: to see the man who brought me down, you know, 845 00:43:47,560 --> 00:43:50,840 Speaker 1: and so they like or I think actually the Soviets 846 00:43:50,840 --> 00:43:52,520 Speaker 1: probably just did this to torture him, to be like 847 00:43:52,520 --> 00:43:55,520 Speaker 1: fuck you. But anyway, the Soviets introduce him to Lydia 848 00:43:55,719 --> 00:43:58,440 Speaker 1: just to be like, yeah, you got beat by a 849 00:43:58,480 --> 00:44:02,520 Speaker 1: tiny girl, you Nazi fuck. And she's like twenty twenty one. 850 00:44:02,600 --> 00:44:06,400 Speaker 1: During all this fighting, at one point she breaks her 851 00:44:06,480 --> 00:44:09,000 Speaker 1: leg after being shot down after bringing down two enemies 852 00:44:09,040 --> 00:44:12,600 Speaker 1: on her own, and while she's recovering, she becomes internationally famous. 853 00:44:13,239 --> 00:44:17,120 Speaker 1: She's the White Rose of Stalingrad, they called her, and 854 00:44:17,800 --> 00:44:21,000 Speaker 1: they offer an extended leave to recover, and she's like, nah, 855 00:44:21,000 --> 00:44:25,680 Speaker 1: I'm good, I got fucking Nazis to shoot down she apparently. 856 00:44:25,800 --> 00:44:27,520 Speaker 1: And this I just like doubt because it's the same 857 00:44:27,560 --> 00:44:31,040 Speaker 1: story as Ludmilla. She found and married another pilot, but 858 00:44:31,120 --> 00:44:35,120 Speaker 1: soon he died in a plane crash. She might have 859 00:44:36,040 --> 00:44:37,799 Speaker 1: this one, I like more. I mean, she definitely is 860 00:44:37,840 --> 00:44:42,640 Speaker 1: like I mean, she's into boys, you know. She totally 861 00:44:42,680 --> 00:44:46,120 Speaker 1: could have done that. You know, It's also possible people 862 00:44:46,200 --> 00:44:48,920 Speaker 1: just had a lot of short, wild love affairs interrupted 863 00:44:48,920 --> 00:44:51,000 Speaker 1: by violence because it was World War fucking two. 864 00:44:52,080 --> 00:44:54,640 Speaker 2: Well, especially on the Soviet side of this, life was 865 00:44:54,800 --> 00:44:57,680 Speaker 2: so short and cheap, Like, yeah, how could you not 866 00:44:57,920 --> 00:45:01,480 Speaker 2: want to really relish every moment of it you had? 867 00:45:01,760 --> 00:45:07,759 Speaker 1: Yeah? Totally, And so her after his death, her cheerful nihilism, 868 00:45:07,760 --> 00:45:10,359 Speaker 1: as I'm choosing to call it, increased her, like, fuck, 869 00:45:10,400 --> 00:45:11,560 Speaker 1: I just gotta get this shit done. 870 00:45:11,719 --> 00:45:11,920 Speaker 2: You know. 871 00:45:13,800 --> 00:45:16,279 Speaker 1: On the first of August nineteen forty three, when she 872 00:45:16,360 --> 00:45:18,520 Speaker 1: was twenty one years old, she went down in a 873 00:45:18,520 --> 00:45:22,360 Speaker 1: dog fight against overwhelming odds fighting Nazis while escorting some bombers. 874 00:45:23,640 --> 00:45:26,800 Speaker 1: Because there was no explosion and her body wasn't recovered 875 00:45:26,840 --> 00:45:31,120 Speaker 1: for a long time, she was presumed captured. And therefore, 876 00:45:32,520 --> 00:45:35,239 Speaker 1: do you know that if you're captured by Nazis, you 877 00:45:35,280 --> 00:45:39,040 Speaker 1: were denied like any possible awards. 878 00:45:41,320 --> 00:45:43,279 Speaker 2: I thought it was worse than that. You were not 879 00:45:43,320 --> 00:45:45,360 Speaker 2: just not done, Yeah shoes. If you were to be 880 00:45:45,360 --> 00:45:47,800 Speaker 2: brought back, yeah, you would probably be executed, if not 881 00:45:47,880 --> 00:45:48,760 Speaker 2: at least goologged. 882 00:45:48,880 --> 00:45:51,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, well, she doesn't come back, right, she is downed, 883 00:45:51,719 --> 00:45:53,799 Speaker 1: she's dead, but no one knows. 884 00:45:53,880 --> 00:45:56,160 Speaker 2: I didn't realize. It also turned into a meaning that 885 00:45:56,160 --> 00:46:00,560 Speaker 2: you did so post death, you were not that. That's 886 00:46:00,600 --> 00:46:04,400 Speaker 2: Stalin order even meant which provided awards. 887 00:46:04,760 --> 00:46:07,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, she was denied the award of Hero of the 888 00:46:07,040 --> 00:46:09,839 Speaker 1: Soviet Union. You had heard of this order? I had 889 00:46:09,880 --> 00:46:13,600 Speaker 1: not heard of this order because Stalin as an evil fuck. 890 00:46:13,920 --> 00:46:16,920 Speaker 1: Soviet prisoners of war were considered by the USSR guilty 891 00:46:16,960 --> 00:46:22,400 Speaker 1: until proven innocent of collaboration. Order Number two hundred and 892 00:46:22,400 --> 00:46:26,239 Speaker 1: seventy was a no surrender, no retreat policy written by 893 00:46:26,239 --> 00:46:29,960 Speaker 1: a man who wasn't fighting. This included any pilot who 894 00:46:29,960 --> 00:46:32,239 Speaker 1: fell behind enemy lines and had to like take off 895 00:46:32,239 --> 00:46:35,040 Speaker 1: her uniform before coming back. One of the night Witches 896 00:46:35,080 --> 00:46:37,759 Speaker 1: actually had this happen to her. She had to take 897 00:46:37,800 --> 00:46:40,080 Speaker 1: off her uniform to get back to the fucking lines, 898 00:46:40,120 --> 00:46:44,000 Speaker 1: you know. And since she didn't have her like insignia 899 00:46:44,040 --> 00:46:46,960 Speaker 1: that proves she's a night witch or whatever, they're like, oh, 900 00:46:47,000 --> 00:46:49,480 Speaker 1: you're a collaborator, and they're going to fucking execute her. 901 00:46:49,480 --> 00:46:51,960 Speaker 1: And she's so loyal according to the version of it, 902 00:46:52,200 --> 00:46:56,680 Speaker 1: that she won't appeal her own case. She's like, if 903 00:46:56,680 --> 00:47:01,200 Speaker 1: Stalin demands it, then I shall die. Supposedly, and then 904 00:47:01,200 --> 00:47:03,920 Speaker 1: she saved the last minute by a commander who's like, 905 00:47:04,000 --> 00:47:04,839 Speaker 1: what are you fucking doing? 906 00:47:05,400 --> 00:47:08,279 Speaker 2: Right? Yeah. This is very commonly referred to as not 907 00:47:08,400 --> 00:47:12,080 Speaker 2: a step back order, Yeah, which also became part of 908 00:47:12,120 --> 00:47:15,200 Speaker 2: the Soviet propaganda post order to twenty seven. 909 00:47:15,560 --> 00:47:19,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, that makes sense, Soviets. Stalin's quote was there are 910 00:47:19,680 --> 00:47:24,240 Speaker 1: no Soviet prisoners of war, only traders. Red army soldiers 911 00:47:24,239 --> 00:47:26,560 Speaker 1: were apparently told that their families would be shot if 912 00:47:26,560 --> 00:47:29,879 Speaker 1: they deserted or you know, let themselves be captured. As 913 00:47:29,920 --> 00:47:33,799 Speaker 1: just an additional you'd better fucking go out fighting. You better, 914 00:47:33,800 --> 00:47:35,960 Speaker 1: I mean, you better fucking shoot yourself, is what they're saying. 915 00:47:37,280 --> 00:47:40,560 Speaker 1: Former prisoners of war were never recognized as veterans, and 916 00:47:40,600 --> 00:47:45,440 Speaker 1: they were denied veterans benefits. This is a one point 917 00:47:45,480 --> 00:47:51,040 Speaker 1: five million soldiers that are I don't know if it 918 00:47:51,080 --> 00:47:56,279 Speaker 1: ever got resolved, but at least at the beginning, I 919 00:47:56,320 --> 00:47:58,479 Speaker 1: fucking hate Stalin. What a piece of shit. 920 00:47:58,680 --> 00:48:01,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I'm reading this panic makers and cowards 921 00:48:01,520 --> 00:48:03,680 Speaker 2: must be liquidated on the spot, and. 922 00:48:04,719 --> 00:48:06,360 Speaker 1: The panicmakers, yeah, fuck you. 923 00:48:06,719 --> 00:48:09,200 Speaker 2: It's an interesting question to ask, and this is beyond 924 00:48:09,239 --> 00:48:11,800 Speaker 2: the scope. This is a philosophical question almost but the 925 00:48:11,840 --> 00:48:15,960 Speaker 2: amount of people that dedicated, like their lives, both the 926 00:48:15,960 --> 00:48:18,640 Speaker 2: ones that died and survived to the cause of not 927 00:48:18,719 --> 00:48:22,920 Speaker 2: only the feeding fascism, but also being in part of 928 00:48:22,920 --> 00:48:26,240 Speaker 2: what is called in the so USSR and now Russia 929 00:48:26,320 --> 00:48:29,760 Speaker 2: the Great Patriotic War. Yea, what that even with Stalin 930 00:48:29,840 --> 00:48:34,000 Speaker 2: acting that way, they still continued the war, Like how many? 931 00:48:34,080 --> 00:48:36,879 Speaker 2: At what point are you like, this guy's crazy too, 932 00:48:37,280 --> 00:48:39,239 Speaker 2: But I don't think you had a choice, because the 933 00:48:39,280 --> 00:48:42,919 Speaker 2: option was between crazy Stalin and those guys over there 934 00:48:42,920 --> 00:48:44,280 Speaker 2: who are somehow even worse. 935 00:48:45,320 --> 00:48:50,239 Speaker 1: Totally like yeah, the somehow even worse is what's so 936 00:48:50,280 --> 00:48:53,520 Speaker 1: impressive about Hitler, you know, Like I'm like this whole 937 00:48:53,520 --> 00:48:55,440 Speaker 1: thing is like, oh God, I hate Stalin and I'm like, 938 00:48:56,000 --> 00:48:59,120 Speaker 1: but I love the people who fucking stopped the Nazis, 939 00:48:59,400 --> 00:49:04,439 Speaker 1: you know. But so this the White Rose of Stalingrad, 940 00:49:04,520 --> 00:49:10,480 Speaker 1: internationally famous. She's like suddenly persona non grata, someone one 941 00:49:10,480 --> 00:49:12,640 Speaker 1: of her I think, someone that she fought alongside of, 942 00:49:12,920 --> 00:49:17,600 Speaker 1: spent thirty six years searching to find her body. She 943 00:49:17,640 --> 00:49:21,080 Speaker 1: had been buried unidentified, and basically like eventually she finally 944 00:49:21,080 --> 00:49:22,799 Speaker 1: finds us like village and they're like, oh yeah, we 945 00:49:22,840 --> 00:49:27,440 Speaker 1: buried this Lady Pilot. You know, in nineteen ninety she 946 00:49:27,560 --> 00:49:29,880 Speaker 1: was given the award for Hero of the Soviet Union, 947 00:49:31,200 --> 00:49:36,120 Speaker 1: And somehow she's just my favorite of today's heroes. She's 948 00:49:36,160 --> 00:49:38,640 Speaker 1: twenty one. She decides to fight the Nazis that are 949 00:49:38,719 --> 00:49:41,680 Speaker 1: murdering Jews like her everywhere they go, and she's willing 950 00:49:41,719 --> 00:49:43,919 Speaker 1: to use the war machine that had disappeared her father 951 00:49:44,000 --> 00:49:46,840 Speaker 1: in order to do it. She asked her mother what 952 00:49:46,840 --> 00:49:49,360 Speaker 1: would be in store for her, Something wonderful and magnificent, 953 00:49:49,400 --> 00:49:54,160 Speaker 1: but maybe short or mundanity. She got something wonderful and 954 00:49:54,200 --> 00:49:57,680 Speaker 1: magnificent and short. And we don't get to choose how 955 00:49:57,719 --> 00:50:00,120 Speaker 1: long we live. We only get to choose with what 956 00:50:00,280 --> 00:50:02,239 Speaker 1: time we what we do with the time we have right, 957 00:50:02,360 --> 00:50:06,920 Speaker 1: to paraphrase Gandalf awkwardly, Fuck, I wasn't. I didn't even 958 00:50:06,920 --> 00:50:08,560 Speaker 1: try to put a Lord of the Rings reference into 959 00:50:08,560 --> 00:50:10,760 Speaker 1: this episode. But there you go, Ba, it comes naturally. 960 00:50:10,800 --> 00:50:12,759 Speaker 1: It's just part of it's part of the natural order. Yeah, 961 00:50:12,760 --> 00:50:13,520 Speaker 1: it's just how it works. 962 00:50:13,680 --> 00:50:13,879 Speaker 4: Yeah. 963 00:50:14,320 --> 00:50:18,520 Speaker 2: So this would have been Gorbachev, and was this award 964 00:50:18,600 --> 00:50:21,359 Speaker 2: to her part of a larger movement of like perastroika 965 00:50:21,360 --> 00:50:23,239 Speaker 2: where he was trying to reform things? Do you know, 966 00:50:23,440 --> 00:50:26,080 Speaker 2: I don't, or was she specifically selected because of her 967 00:50:26,120 --> 00:50:31,560 Speaker 2: amazing achievements. I honestly don't know, and I that's interesting, 968 00:50:31,640 --> 00:50:33,680 Speaker 2: I was a question. Yeah, yeah. 969 00:50:34,480 --> 00:50:38,360 Speaker 1: Anyway, After the war, Stalin went even more conservative. He 970 00:50:38,440 --> 00:50:41,680 Speaker 1: rebranded the propaganda of like women as warriors towards women 971 00:50:41,719 --> 00:50:45,440 Speaker 1: as patriotic housekeeping. Mothers awards were now given to women 972 00:50:45,480 --> 00:50:48,839 Speaker 1: who bore and raised more than seven children. Divorce laws 973 00:50:48,840 --> 00:50:53,759 Speaker 1: were made stricter. But first, as we've talked about, the 974 00:50:53,800 --> 00:50:56,720 Speaker 1: Soviet Union bled and bled and bled and then stop 975 00:50:56,800 --> 00:50:59,640 Speaker 1: Nazi Germany. There's not really any other honest way to 976 00:50:59,680 --> 00:51:03,160 Speaker 1: look at at it. Everyone helped. Russia lost the most 977 00:51:03,200 --> 00:51:05,680 Speaker 1: in the war to stop Germany, China lost the most 978 00:51:05,719 --> 00:51:08,480 Speaker 1: in the war to stop Imperial Japan. And just to 979 00:51:08,480 --> 00:51:10,719 Speaker 1: get dates correct, it's worth pointing out that the China 980 00:51:10,719 --> 00:51:12,759 Speaker 1: involved in World War Two is not Communist China that 981 00:51:12,800 --> 00:51:17,279 Speaker 1: doesn't kick in until nineteen forty nine. The USSR lost 982 00:51:17,360 --> 00:51:21,400 Speaker 1: roughly ten million soldiers in combat. China lost three to 983 00:51:21,440 --> 00:51:25,239 Speaker 1: four million soldiers in combat. The US lost most of 984 00:51:25,600 --> 00:51:27,640 Speaker 1: lost more than any of the other Western powers at 985 00:51:27,760 --> 00:51:31,600 Speaker 1: roughly four hundred thousand, with the UK close behind at 986 00:51:31,600 --> 00:51:34,320 Speaker 1: like three hundred and eighty four or something off the 987 00:51:34,320 --> 00:51:38,000 Speaker 1: top of my head. The naziason that Japan also lost 988 00:51:38,000 --> 00:51:40,960 Speaker 1: millions each but like fucking Nazi. 989 00:51:40,960 --> 00:51:42,320 Speaker 2: Kind of irrelevant, right, yeah. 990 00:51:42,200 --> 00:51:44,439 Speaker 1: Yeah, it should have been more, yeah yeah, Or should 991 00:51:44,440 --> 00:51:46,279 Speaker 1: have been they should have been three. They should have 992 00:51:46,280 --> 00:51:50,920 Speaker 1: been like, oh, you've killed Hans, we give up, you know, right, no, right, 993 00:51:51,880 --> 00:51:52,400 Speaker 1: interpret that. 994 00:51:52,440 --> 00:51:54,640 Speaker 2: But once it went the way it was, it was like, 995 00:51:54,719 --> 00:51:55,640 Speaker 2: should have been more. 996 00:51:55,560 --> 00:51:59,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, no, totally. The civilian death toll overall was 997 00:51:59,040 --> 00:52:01,040 Speaker 1: twice as high as the million death toll of World 998 00:52:01,080 --> 00:52:04,719 Speaker 1: War II, but the USSR bled itself to stop fascism. 999 00:52:05,200 --> 00:52:07,720 Speaker 1: The largest battle in World War II was the Battle 1000 00:52:07,719 --> 00:52:10,440 Speaker 1: of Moscow. It lasted more than three months. It lasted 1001 00:52:10,440 --> 00:52:13,279 Speaker 1: from September nineteen forty one to January nineteen forty two. 1002 00:52:14,719 --> 00:52:17,600 Speaker 1: The Soviets took more than a million casualties during this 1003 00:52:17,760 --> 00:52:20,600 Speaker 1: battle alone, which is more than the rest of the 1004 00:52:20,600 --> 00:52:23,719 Speaker 1: Allies took combined for the entire war on the Western Front. 1005 00:52:24,120 --> 00:52:27,560 Speaker 1: This battle is the end of Operation Barbarosa, and it 1006 00:52:27,600 --> 00:52:30,399 Speaker 1: is the end of the German belief that they'd have Sorry, 1007 00:52:30,440 --> 00:52:34,240 Speaker 1: please cut that this battle was the end of Operation 1008 00:52:34,360 --> 00:52:36,879 Speaker 1: Barbarosa and the end of the German belief that they'd 1009 00:52:36,880 --> 00:52:40,200 Speaker 1: have an easy time conquering in the USSR. And yet 1010 00:52:40,239 --> 00:52:43,759 Speaker 1: one interesting thing, the USSR went even more conservative, right, 1011 00:52:44,520 --> 00:52:46,960 Speaker 1: But all of these returning POW's, the ones who are 1012 00:52:46,960 --> 00:52:50,080 Speaker 1: seen as traders, they go off to Siberian work camps. 1013 00:52:51,440 --> 00:52:53,960 Speaker 1: And the thing is is that Siberian work camps are 1014 00:52:54,000 --> 00:52:58,920 Speaker 1: full of actual communists, including anarchists and Marxists. And something 1015 00:52:58,960 --> 00:53:00,360 Speaker 1: I really want to cover in the few future that 1016 00:53:00,560 --> 00:53:03,960 Speaker 1: I came across that I hadn't heard about before. You 1017 00:53:04,000 --> 00:53:06,759 Speaker 1: get the Democratic Movement of Northern Russia, which is a 1018 00:53:06,800 --> 00:53:10,160 Speaker 1: Marxist and anarchist revolt in nineteen forty seven across the 1019 00:53:10,200 --> 00:53:13,840 Speaker 1: Siberian labor camps, and a bunch of the fucking returning 1020 00:53:13,840 --> 00:53:18,440 Speaker 1: POW's who've been called collaborators are like, all right, well, 1021 00:53:18,480 --> 00:53:20,800 Speaker 1: let's if we're fighting for communism, let's fight for actual 1022 00:53:20,840 --> 00:53:26,239 Speaker 1: fucking communism because and this doesn't work, right, But the 1023 00:53:26,280 --> 00:53:28,120 Speaker 1: reason I include it is to point out that like 1024 00:53:28,200 --> 00:53:35,200 Speaker 1: freedom will pop up everywhere constantly, forever, unrepressibly, even if 1025 00:53:35,200 --> 00:53:38,560 Speaker 1: you're fucking Stalin. And that's the story for another time. 1026 00:53:40,560 --> 00:53:42,759 Speaker 2: Wow, that sort of does touch on what I mentioned 1027 00:53:42,800 --> 00:53:44,520 Speaker 2: A moment ago is how long would they be willing 1028 00:53:44,520 --> 00:53:47,239 Speaker 2: to tolerate this? And so the point was that once 1029 00:53:47,320 --> 00:53:50,360 Speaker 2: the fascist threat had been removed, this group, which was 1030 00:53:50,400 --> 00:53:52,959 Speaker 2: also of course had other reasons to revolt as well 1031 00:53:53,000 --> 00:53:55,640 Speaker 2: being put into a prison camp. Yeah for doing their 1032 00:53:55,760 --> 00:53:59,640 Speaker 2: service yea, to their country. But like you said, well 1033 00:53:59,719 --> 00:54:01,759 Speaker 2: now the time at least for them, they tried at 1034 00:54:01,840 --> 00:54:04,000 Speaker 2: least to do what they originally wanted to do in 1035 00:54:04,000 --> 00:54:06,600 Speaker 2: the first place. Yeah, And that's noble in its own right. 1036 00:54:06,600 --> 00:54:08,360 Speaker 2: And I'd love to hear that topic. That sounds like 1037 00:54:08,440 --> 00:54:11,799 Speaker 2: something worth focusing on, because like you said, it's it's 1038 00:54:11,880 --> 00:54:13,720 Speaker 2: it's the little weeds in the cracks of the rocks. 1039 00:54:14,520 --> 00:54:15,440 Speaker 2: They're irrepressible. 1040 00:54:15,520 --> 00:54:23,279 Speaker 1: Yeah, well, what else is irrepressible is your plugs? 1041 00:54:23,760 --> 00:54:28,799 Speaker 2: Yeah? Oh yeah, unstoppable, complete mechanized for so. 1042 00:54:28,880 --> 00:54:30,600 Speaker 1: I mean, you did have a pretty major right wing 1043 00:54:30,640 --> 00:54:33,839 Speaker 1: attempt to take you down. If anyone like you want, yes, 1044 00:54:34,160 --> 00:54:37,160 Speaker 1: another reason to listen to to watch in range. Just 1045 00:54:37,320 --> 00:54:41,200 Speaker 1: know that the right wing hates Carl because here was Carl. 1046 00:54:41,280 --> 00:54:44,200 Speaker 1: This is my version of your story to Carl is 1047 00:54:44,280 --> 00:54:46,560 Speaker 1: cool person, It did cool stuff. Carl is in there 1048 00:54:46,560 --> 00:54:49,000 Speaker 1: and he's doing his thing as a you know, gun 1049 00:54:49,120 --> 00:54:53,040 Speaker 1: historian and is talking about guns and showing off guns 1050 00:54:53,080 --> 00:54:55,640 Speaker 1: and doing like you know, and being very responsible about it. 1051 00:54:55,680 --> 00:54:59,759 Speaker 1: And then slowly the right wing starts taking more and 1052 00:54:59,800 --> 00:55:03,440 Speaker 1: more control of the you know, certain cultural spheres, and 1053 00:55:03,480 --> 00:55:08,040 Speaker 1: then they're like, wait, Carl, Carl's not one of us. 1054 00:55:08,360 --> 00:55:11,759 Speaker 1: Carl believes in freedom. And then they all freaked out 1055 00:55:11,840 --> 00:55:14,880 Speaker 1: and they were like out with Carl, out with Carl. 1056 00:55:14,920 --> 00:55:17,399 Speaker 1: And there's like reddit posts and like subreddits that are 1057 00:55:17,400 --> 00:55:22,440 Speaker 1: like committed to outing Carl as a terrible person for 1058 00:55:22,920 --> 00:55:25,480 Speaker 1: believing that people should be in charge of themselves and 1059 00:55:25,520 --> 00:55:28,920 Speaker 1: be nice to each other. Is that a Is that 1060 00:55:29,080 --> 00:55:30,040 Speaker 1: a reasonable? 1061 00:55:31,080 --> 00:55:33,239 Speaker 2: Yeah? Like, first of all, it's humbling to hear that, 1062 00:55:33,280 --> 00:55:36,360 Speaker 2: and I appreciate you throwing that into the narrative, and 1063 00:55:36,400 --> 00:55:38,719 Speaker 2: it is it is true, and thank you for that. 1064 00:55:39,719 --> 00:55:42,120 Speaker 2: It turns out, and I mean we've always known that that. 1065 00:55:42,600 --> 00:55:44,640 Speaker 2: First of all, the gun community isn't the community. It's 1066 00:55:44,640 --> 00:55:46,440 Speaker 2: a group of people that happen to like guns, but 1067 00:55:46,480 --> 00:55:49,080 Speaker 2: that doesn't pay a community. That's people that like a thing. 1068 00:55:49,760 --> 00:55:52,880 Speaker 2: So that phrase is always erroneous, but it was considered 1069 00:55:52,880 --> 00:55:56,600 Speaker 2: as such and putting content to that space before things 1070 00:55:56,680 --> 00:56:01,200 Speaker 2: got more visible or more polarized. Yeah, attracted an audience 1071 00:56:01,200 --> 00:56:03,320 Speaker 2: that you didn't necessarily always know what they were about. 1072 00:56:03,360 --> 00:56:06,240 Speaker 2: But when things got to the nitty gritty, and one 1073 00:56:06,520 --> 00:56:08,560 Speaker 2: was willing and I'm not the only one, but one 1074 00:56:08,600 --> 00:56:11,880 Speaker 2: of the seems like sadly few visible in that space 1075 00:56:12,760 --> 00:56:15,800 Speaker 2: that had at least some share of eyeballs was willing 1076 00:56:15,840 --> 00:56:18,760 Speaker 2: to stand up against it and say things like trans 1077 00:56:18,760 --> 00:56:21,640 Speaker 2: writes LGBTQ, people have rights to firearms and self defense 1078 00:56:22,239 --> 00:56:26,800 Speaker 2: just like you do. Is strangely controversial, take and immediately 1079 00:56:26,800 --> 00:56:29,120 Speaker 2: turns you into the enemy of all things good and natural, 1080 00:56:29,160 --> 00:56:33,000 Speaker 2: which is of course what fascists do the opposite, Their 1081 00:56:33,120 --> 00:56:35,120 Speaker 2: version of what is good and natural is horrible and 1082 00:56:35,160 --> 00:56:38,879 Speaker 2: awful and evil. And saying that and drew their ire, 1083 00:56:39,360 --> 00:56:42,839 Speaker 2: And you said, Reddit for chanki Wei Farms another site 1084 00:56:42,840 --> 00:56:46,080 Speaker 2: I don't even mention that's associated with the air fifteen 1085 00:56:46,440 --> 00:56:49,080 Speaker 2: as pages and hundreds and pages of threads of people 1086 00:56:49,160 --> 00:56:53,000 Speaker 2: stopping and dosing and all the things. But yet here 1087 00:56:53,040 --> 00:56:55,839 Speaker 2: we are, and we still we persevere and hopefully are 1088 00:56:55,880 --> 00:56:58,520 Speaker 2: trying to create a more inclusive space for people that 1089 00:56:58,560 --> 00:57:00,720 Speaker 2: are interested in this topic or their own self defense 1090 00:57:01,000 --> 00:57:04,719 Speaker 2: that otherwise wouldn't have a home and that wasn't that 1091 00:57:04,800 --> 00:57:07,080 Speaker 2: was that wasn't an intent or like a strategic goal. 1092 00:57:07,120 --> 00:57:08,880 Speaker 2: It was just me being naturally on myself and it 1093 00:57:09,120 --> 00:57:11,520 Speaker 2: organically turned into that. But you saying that is a 1094 00:57:11,560 --> 00:57:13,200 Speaker 2: real honor and I appreciate that very much. 1095 00:57:13,239 --> 00:57:18,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, so folks should check out Carl's work and check 1096 00:57:18,080 --> 00:57:21,240 Speaker 1: out in Range, and folks should check out Cooler Zone 1097 00:57:21,280 --> 00:57:24,320 Speaker 1: Media so that you get the strange experience of hearing 1098 00:57:24,360 --> 00:57:28,040 Speaker 1: me tossed ads but then having me immediately say and 1099 00:57:28,080 --> 00:57:31,680 Speaker 1: we're back. Which here I'll give you an example. This 1100 00:57:31,760 --> 00:57:34,000 Speaker 1: is this could be you if you subscribe to Cooler 1101 00:57:34,080 --> 00:57:38,120 Speaker 1: Zone Media. But you know what else is fun is 1102 00:57:38,440 --> 00:57:42,680 Speaker 1: these products and we're back. See, that's what you could 1103 00:57:42,720 --> 00:57:47,400 Speaker 1: have every single time as seeming you have an Apple phone, 1104 00:57:48,400 --> 00:57:52,240 Speaker 1: but we're working on Android. That's what I got. That's 1105 00:57:52,240 --> 00:57:57,360 Speaker 1: my that's my plug. You can google my name if 1106 00:57:57,360 --> 00:58:01,360 Speaker 1: you probably even google my docs. I'd rather you didn't, 1107 00:58:03,320 --> 00:58:05,760 Speaker 1: but you know, yeah, I mean whatever. 1108 00:58:05,760 --> 00:58:07,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, if you google in Range, you find 1109 00:58:07,520 --> 00:58:10,280 Speaker 2: all that in an example of how the system works. 1110 00:58:10,280 --> 00:58:11,680 Speaker 2: You google in Range and some of the first stuff 1111 00:58:11,720 --> 00:58:14,320 Speaker 2: you'll find is what you were just mentioning. So probably 1112 00:58:14,360 --> 00:58:16,280 Speaker 2: not that different for you. I'd imagine I haven't. That's 1113 00:58:16,320 --> 00:58:17,560 Speaker 2: not as bad interesting it is not. 1114 00:58:17,800 --> 00:58:20,120 Speaker 1: Also, I put out so much shit and there's only 1115 00:58:20,200 --> 00:58:22,320 Speaker 1: like one group that's been committed to docxing me. And 1116 00:58:22,320 --> 00:58:26,000 Speaker 1: it's funny. At one point on Twitter, I was like, oh, yeah, 1117 00:58:26,040 --> 00:58:28,720 Speaker 1: these like neo Nazis are docsing me, and they're like 1118 00:58:29,320 --> 00:58:31,120 Speaker 1: they like made a burner account on Twitter to be 1119 00:58:31,160 --> 00:58:33,160 Speaker 1: like we're neo Confederates. 1120 00:58:33,840 --> 00:58:38,400 Speaker 2: I'm like, oh, that's better, all right, okay, yeah, where's 1121 00:58:38,400 --> 00:58:39,520 Speaker 2: your white flag? Yeah? 1122 00:58:39,560 --> 00:58:39,800 Speaker 3: I know. 1123 00:58:41,160 --> 00:58:43,400 Speaker 2: Yeah. The funny thing about this is so often I'm 1124 00:58:43,400 --> 00:58:45,120 Speaker 2: sure you've encounted this. There's a certain at least I 1125 00:58:45,160 --> 00:58:47,520 Speaker 2: have in that space that I work in. These people 1126 00:58:47,560 --> 00:58:50,640 Speaker 2: that are like, accuse you of are you saying that 1127 00:58:50,680 --> 00:58:53,520 Speaker 2: you support queer rights? And I'm like yeah, and they're 1128 00:58:53,520 --> 00:58:56,400 Speaker 2: trying to make it an acquisition decision, and I'm like, no, 1129 00:58:56,720 --> 00:58:58,200 Speaker 2: I think this is a point of pride as a 1130 00:58:58,280 --> 00:59:00,320 Speaker 2: human being, as a decent human And it's so funny 1131 00:59:00,360 --> 00:59:01,600 Speaker 2: to see them trying to make that a bad thing 1132 00:59:01,640 --> 00:59:04,480 Speaker 2: and they're like, hello, yeah. 1133 00:59:03,920 --> 00:59:06,640 Speaker 1: Anyways, yeah, Sophia, guys need to plug. 1134 00:59:07,880 --> 00:59:11,080 Speaker 3: Uh. My business partner, Robert Evans, has a substack like 1135 00:59:11,160 --> 00:59:15,160 Speaker 3: you do. Magpie. Who is this called shatter Zone? Check 1136 00:59:15,160 --> 00:59:15,480 Speaker 3: it out. 1137 00:59:15,560 --> 00:59:19,440 Speaker 1: It's good. See you all next week when we talk 1138 00:59:19,480 --> 00:59:23,720 Speaker 1: about some cool people who did cool stuff. Bye. 1139 00:59:26,240 --> 00:59:28,720 Speaker 3: Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff is a production of 1140 00:59:28,800 --> 00:59:31,880 Speaker 3: cool Zone Media. For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, 1141 00:59:32,040 --> 00:59:35,280 Speaker 3: visit our website Coolzonemedia dot com, or check us out 1142 00:59:35,360 --> 00:59:38,760 Speaker 3: on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get 1143 00:59:38,800 --> 00:59:39,640 Speaker 3: your podcasts.