WEBVTT - An Inside Look at What It's Like to Be in Outer Space 0:00:02.520 --> 0:00:08.480 Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. You're listening to Bloomberg 0:00:08.560 --> 0:00:22.440 Business Week with Karl Messer and Tim Stenebek on Bloomberg Radio. 0:00:23.120 --> 0:00:23.240 Well. 0:00:23.360 --> 0:00:26.479 Next guest has spent more than four thousand hours in space. 0:00:26.880 --> 0:00:29.760 She's been a part of three NASA missions, including a 0:00:29.880 --> 0:00:33.360 six month mission to the International Space Station that launched 0:00:33.360 --> 0:00:36.199 a day after her fiftieth birthday. She's got a new 0:00:36.240 --> 0:00:38.600 book out. It's called Sharing Space. It breaks down the 0:00:38.640 --> 0:00:42.080 insights that she found essential to her success, including knowing 0:00:42.080 --> 0:00:44.680 how to adapt when a roll down to the size 0:00:44.680 --> 0:00:48.000 of a space suit does not have women in mind. 0:00:48.400 --> 0:00:52.159 Sharing Space, an Astronaut's Guide to Mission Wonder and Making Change, 0:00:52.479 --> 0:00:56.160 is out today. We've got with us Katherine Coleman joining 0:00:56.200 --> 0:00:58.760 us this afternoon. Catherine, Katie, how are you? 0:00:59.760 --> 0:01:02.720 I am great, Thank you and thanks for the music. 0:01:02.760 --> 0:01:03.480 That was awesome. 0:01:03.640 --> 0:01:06.160 Hey all. Credit to Paul Brannan, our producer. He is 0:01:06.200 --> 0:01:11.120 the music whiz here. Congratulations on the book. I'm wondering 0:01:12.120 --> 0:01:15.160 when you write a book like this, if you're thinking 0:01:15.200 --> 0:01:20.200 your entire career as it's happening, that one day you're 0:01:20.200 --> 0:01:22.479 going to put it in a book. Is that how 0:01:22.480 --> 0:01:26.000 it went for you? 0:01:26.080 --> 0:01:29.240 No, and if it did, I would have definitely taken 0:01:29.280 --> 0:01:31.640 better notes, right, it would have been like written diaries 0:01:31.720 --> 0:01:34.440 and journals. And actually it's something I really encouraged the 0:01:34.560 --> 0:01:37.320 other folks affect to an author, Andy Chakin, he begged me, 0:01:37.360 --> 0:01:39.240 he goes, Katie, you know we're on that station. Just 0:01:39.600 --> 0:01:41.640 talk into your iPhone, Okay, don't have one of those. 0:01:41.760 --> 0:01:44.240 Talk into something, you know, just little notes, anything that'll 0:01:44.280 --> 0:01:47.559 remind you of everything you've been doing, because I think, 0:01:47.640 --> 0:01:50.560 you know, we all noticed so much, but I didn't. 0:01:50.600 --> 0:01:52.840 Actually I didn't expect to be writing a book. But 0:01:53.440 --> 0:01:57.040 in a way, as I retired a few years ago 0:01:57.080 --> 0:01:59.639 and you kind of look back and things haven't changed 0:01:59.720 --> 0:02:01.800 enough that I decided a book was necessary. 0:02:02.600 --> 0:02:05.640 And so I mean, walk us through your process then, 0:02:05.720 --> 0:02:07.640 given that you didn't take notes at the time, you 0:02:07.680 --> 0:02:11.000 were probably busy doing space things, as I would imagine, 0:02:11.040 --> 0:02:13.840 I mean, what did this process look like? I would imagine, 0:02:13.880 --> 0:02:16.480 you know, you went back to your former astronauts people 0:02:16.520 --> 0:02:18.720 you shared the air with. I mean, walk us through 0:02:18.720 --> 0:02:20.680 that a little bit, the TikTok of how you actually 0:02:20.720 --> 0:02:21.040 did it. 0:02:22.080 --> 0:02:26.120 Well. I really didn't want their side of the story. No, 0:02:26.200 --> 0:02:29.800 I did in some ways you know, by being a 0:02:29.840 --> 0:02:32.280 retired astronaut, I get to go out and talk a lot, 0:02:32.919 --> 0:02:34.880 I mean and talk about my experiences and I am 0:02:34.919 --> 0:02:37.640 somebody that actually kind of processes their life through talking, 0:02:38.040 --> 0:02:40.880 you know, with others and makes decisions that way. And 0:02:41.320 --> 0:02:44.639 it's I think what needed to be in the book got, 0:02:45.040 --> 0:02:47.600 you know, sort of got brought together by going out 0:02:47.639 --> 0:02:50.200 and doing these talks and looking out into audiences in 0:02:51.280 --> 0:02:55.000 realizing what was essential. Like I remember one one group 0:02:55.040 --> 0:02:59.120 of women, they were all like seniors in college being 0:02:59.200 --> 0:03:04.560 courted at the oh, the very big computer conference. I'm 0:03:04.600 --> 0:03:06.800 just so embarrassed of it's run out of my head, 0:03:07.400 --> 0:03:13.480 but mostly for women, and so anyways, basically being their 0:03:13.520 --> 0:03:16.520 speaker and realizing this was an audience about one hundred 0:03:16.600 --> 0:03:20.359 young women, all in computer science and engineering and realizing 0:03:20.520 --> 0:03:23.720 that the I mean, this is them, they are the future, 0:03:23.919 --> 0:03:26.240 and I have only like twenty minutes to impart to 0:03:26.280 --> 0:03:28.960 them things I think they really need to know. So 0:03:29.280 --> 0:03:31.240 the little moments like that, I think really led to 0:03:31.280 --> 0:03:31.720 the book. 0:03:32.480 --> 0:03:33.799 Well, I want to talk a little bit about your 0:03:33.840 --> 0:03:37.000 career because it's been it's been so interesting. I mean, 0:03:37.360 --> 0:03:42.200 a PhD from UMass Amherst. You went to mit Ratzi 0:03:42.680 --> 0:03:45.600 was sort of your introduction into service. It sounds like, 0:03:46.240 --> 0:03:49.120 can you start at like, give us the abridged version 0:03:49.120 --> 0:03:51.320 of how you found yourself, how you were able to 0:03:51.360 --> 0:03:55.200 become an astronaut. I mean, this is like every kid's dream, 0:03:55.320 --> 0:03:59.160 and I think a lot of adults dreams too, and not. 0:03:59.200 --> 0:04:02.800 As many, I say, young girls as one might think. 0:04:02.840 --> 0:04:07.320 Even these days in our small town are a person 0:04:07.360 --> 0:04:10.080 that cuts hair Hanna on the door of her salon. 0:04:10.760 --> 0:04:13.600 Kids are always drawing astronauts and they're always girls, which 0:04:13.600 --> 0:04:14.880 is I think very great. Cool. 0:04:17.839 --> 0:04:20.000 We're going to work on We're going to work on 0:04:20.440 --> 0:04:24.200 Katie's connection, which is ironic because I think she at 0:04:24.200 --> 0:04:28.760 one point in her career played an instrument from space 0:04:29.160 --> 0:04:32.360 in National Public Radio. Yeah, it's unfortunately imagine there was 0:04:32.400 --> 0:04:32.880 a connection. 0:04:32.960 --> 0:04:35.599 We don't have that technology on when that happened. 0:04:35.800 --> 0:04:37.640 Yeah, but we're going to get back to Katie Coleman. 0:04:38.320 --> 0:04:41.520 Her new book is an Astronaut's Guide to Mission Wonder 0:04:41.560 --> 0:04:44.479 and Making Change. It's called Sharing Space. The book is 0:04:44.520 --> 0:04:47.600 out today. Katie, Yeah, did you want to be an 0:04:47.600 --> 0:04:48.680 astronaut when you were growing up? 0:04:48.760 --> 0:04:48.920 No? 0:04:49.040 --> 0:04:51.680 Never. I fear the ocean, I fear big wide spaces 0:04:51.720 --> 0:04:53.480 and that includes space. But I do have a bunch 0:04:53.480 --> 0:04:56.720 of questions about just being an astronaut. We hear so 0:04:56.839 --> 0:04:59.600 much about I feel like the training and it's just 0:04:59.680 --> 0:05:02.000 one of the things that I would love more insight, 0:05:02.080 --> 0:05:05.400 and how do you physically prepare to be in space? 0:05:05.600 --> 0:05:07.880 And then once you're in space. I don't know about you, Tim, 0:05:07.920 --> 0:05:10.680 I think you were kind of self referencing that you're 0:05:10.720 --> 0:05:12.680 one of those adults that would like to be an astronaut. 0:05:12.760 --> 0:05:12.920 Oh. 0:05:13.000 --> 0:05:14.920 Yeah, once you're actually space is so cool. 0:05:14.960 --> 0:05:16.760 Well, once you're actually in space, I mean I feel 0:05:16.760 --> 0:05:18.839 like I watched those videos on YouTube all the time 0:05:19.200 --> 0:05:22.000 of what it's just like in the actual show. 0:05:22.120 --> 0:05:24.800 Yeah, I mean, I think what's so amazing about where 0:05:24.800 --> 0:05:27.320 we are when it comes to space exploration is the 0:05:27.400 --> 0:05:30.839 NASA that Katie Coleman was a part of is so 0:05:30.920 --> 0:05:33.760 different than the NASA that exists today. And the rise 0:05:33.800 --> 0:05:39.640 of private enterprise, yeah, has emerged over the last well 0:05:39.720 --> 0:05:42.640 twenty years or so that has replaced big parts of 0:05:42.640 --> 0:05:46.200 what NASA does. Look NASA always relied on private companies 0:05:46.279 --> 0:05:49.240 to help innovate, but the way that it's relying on 0:05:49.240 --> 0:05:53.680 SpaceX now and potentially on boeing for future missions is 0:05:53.680 --> 0:05:55.919 certainly something to speak of. The Also, the idea I 0:05:55.920 --> 0:06:01.760 think too, Katie Greifeld, is that more and more people 0:06:01.800 --> 0:06:05.719 who are not trained as astronauts by governments are getting 0:06:05.720 --> 0:06:07.080 an opportunity to go to space. 0:06:07.240 --> 0:06:12.039 Yeah, private civilians without ulry ones, very very wealthy ones. 0:06:12.279 --> 0:06:16.839 We could name check a few billionaires there. But I mean, 0:06:16.960 --> 0:06:19.720 when it comes to that, just do you think about 0:06:19.720 --> 0:06:22.680 the space race and the urgency and sort of the 0:06:22.720 --> 0:06:25.760 just the importance of it, It feels like this handover 0:06:25.880 --> 0:06:29.240 to those private companies like you were mentioning about, I mean, 0:06:29.320 --> 0:06:31.200 is that the path forward? How do we continue to 0:06:31.200 --> 0:06:35.240 push out into space if you have agencies such as 0:06:35.360 --> 0:06:38.960 NASA running into these funding concerns and other things. 0:06:39.160 --> 0:06:41.080 I think there's also an element to you here of 0:06:41.279 --> 0:06:47.240 a global cooperation that exists in space that I think 0:06:47.360 --> 0:06:50.760 is not necessarily going to be there if we for example, 0:06:51.600 --> 0:06:54.000 the space race between the US and the Soviet Union 0:06:54.080 --> 0:06:57.720 obviously a big deal when the US put a man 0:06:57.760 --> 0:07:00.760 on the Moon first, but then you have cooperation with 0:07:00.800 --> 0:07:03.320 the building of the ISS and the development of the ISS, 0:07:03.960 --> 0:07:06.159 and then also when we were no longer using the 0:07:06.160 --> 0:07:11.320 Space Shuttle to bring or bring people to the ISS. 0:07:11.800 --> 0:07:15.080 We as a country relied on NASA on Russia and 0:07:15.080 --> 0:07:19.120 they're soy use capsules to bring astronauts home. And that 0:07:19.240 --> 0:07:21.880 was recent correct, very recent? Yeah, yeah, which is. 0:07:22.000 --> 0:07:22.760 I mean kind of. 0:07:23.600 --> 0:07:26.360 I mean it's maybe a good sign for humanity that 0:07:26.400 --> 0:07:28.160 when it comes to matters such as that, there is 0:07:28.560 --> 0:07:32.120 a degree of cooperation and working together. So there you go. 0:07:32.240 --> 0:07:35.160 But there's also the rise of military branches as a 0:07:35.200 --> 0:07:37.360 result of space, Like Space Force is a new branch 0:07:37.400 --> 0:07:38.560 of the military. 0:07:38.720 --> 0:07:39.520 That's still around. 0:07:39.640 --> 0:07:40.280 It's still around. 0:07:40.360 --> 0:07:42.520 Yeah, I feel like we haven't talked about it in 0:07:42.560 --> 0:07:42.880 a while. 0:07:42.920 --> 0:07:44.119 We haven't Space Force. 0:07:44.320 --> 0:07:46.600 Yeah, yeah, But I don't know. I think about Elon 0:07:46.680 --> 0:07:49.040 Musk all the time. Obviously we're at Bloomberg News and 0:07:49.440 --> 0:07:51.280 I still spend a lot of time on Twitter, and 0:07:51.320 --> 0:07:53.400 I just I think about Elon Musk a lot, and 0:07:53.840 --> 0:07:57.200 I think about his big ambitions. I mean, he wants 0:07:57.240 --> 0:07:59.480 to go to Mars. He wants to die on Mars, 0:07:59.520 --> 0:08:02.600 pretty much like he wants to live on Mars. And 0:08:02.680 --> 0:08:05.960 you think about just I don't know, he's kind of 0:08:06.000 --> 0:08:09.480 made that his life's mission. He has incredible funds, and 0:08:09.520 --> 0:08:12.320 you think, I mean, is that what is going to 0:08:12.360 --> 0:08:14.960 take when you think about again, sort of keeping the 0:08:15.000 --> 0:08:19.640 momentum and the ambition and vision of space exploration, if 0:08:19.640 --> 0:08:22.280 it's not the governments, and if I mean, maybe it's 0:08:22.360 --> 0:08:24.360 the governments if they can, you know, put their military 0:08:24.360 --> 0:08:27.239 apparatuses up there. But beyond that, when you think about 0:08:27.280 --> 0:08:30.360 just wanting to develop space, I do think it's an 0:08:30.400 --> 0:08:33.400 interesting question should that be the arena of billionaires? 0:08:34.120 --> 0:08:37.160 Well, let's actually pose that question to Katie Coleman. We 0:08:37.200 --> 0:08:38.920 only have about a minute with you, Katie. Then we're 0:08:38.920 --> 0:08:40.600 going to do some news and we're going to come back. 0:08:41.200 --> 0:08:42.680 Katie and I just covered a lot there. I know 0:08:42.720 --> 0:08:44.480 you were working on your connection, But what do you 0:08:44.520 --> 0:08:48.040 make of the rise of private enterprise companies like SpaceX 0:08:48.080 --> 0:08:51.319 and certainly Boeing to a lesser extent us supplanning a 0:08:51.360 --> 0:08:53.200 lot of what NASA has historically done. 0:08:54.800 --> 0:08:58.200 The more the merrier, not to trivialize it, but more 0:08:58.240 --> 0:09:00.880 people in the game bringing their ideas. There are new 0:09:00.920 --> 0:09:03.320 ways to do things and doing them in concert. We 0:09:03.360 --> 0:09:06.240 talk about these companies as if they're alone, but they're 0:09:06.280 --> 0:09:09.840 often doing things with NASA for NASA, and I think 0:09:09.920 --> 0:09:12.600 you know each of these we talk about the billionaires. 0:09:12.640 --> 0:09:14.959 But each of them has a vision and they have resources, 0:09:15.240 --> 0:09:17.320 and they have, you know, a vision of how to 0:09:17.360 --> 0:09:20.400 pave the way to space for more people. And each 0:09:20.400 --> 0:09:23.520 of those visions I find to be valuable. And I 0:09:23.640 --> 0:09:25.679 like to look more at the substance than at the 0:09:26.080 --> 0:09:29.720 people there and just to see what they're accomplishing. And 0:09:29.760 --> 0:09:31.560 I like what each of them are doing. The more 0:09:31.559 --> 0:09:34.920 people you bring up on orbit, the more people get 0:09:34.960 --> 0:09:37.880 that view and understand actually the magnitude of what we 0:09:37.960 --> 0:09:40.839 can do up there, that. 0:09:40.960 --> 0:09:43.480 View just seems incredible. 0:09:43.640 --> 0:09:46.839 Yeah. Absolutely, I like that that thought that it's almost 0:09:46.880 --> 0:09:50.360 like this gateway into igniting more people's ambition. The more 0:09:50.360 --> 0:09:52.920 people that can see that, the more people that will 0:09:52.920 --> 0:09:54.040 probably want to go up. 0:09:54.200 --> 0:09:56.840 Hey, we're speaking right now with astronaut. Yeah, we know, 0:09:56.880 --> 0:09:58.880 we have to let's do some news Katie, and then 0:09:58.920 --> 0:10:00.720 we're going to come back and do more with you. 0:10:00.800 --> 0:10:02.920 That's Katie Coleman. She's got a new book out. It's 0:10:02.920 --> 0:10:06.240 called Sharing Space, An Astronauts Guide to Mission Wonder and 0:10:06.400 --> 0:10:09.560 Making Change More with Katie Coleman in just a few minutes. 0:10:09.679 --> 0:10:12.440 I want to get right back to Catherine Coleman. Her 0:10:12.520 --> 0:10:15.000 new book is out. It's called Sharing Space. An astronaut's 0:10:15.000 --> 0:10:18.120 guide to Mission wonder and Making Change if you're just 0:10:18.160 --> 0:10:20.920 now joining us. Katie Coleman spent more than four thousand 0:10:21.000 --> 0:10:24.120 hours in space three NASA missions, a six month mission 0:10:24.160 --> 0:10:28.640 to the ISS, launching a day after her fiftieth birthday. Katie, 0:10:28.679 --> 0:10:31.199 I want to get right back to just the experience 0:10:31.360 --> 0:10:34.360 of being in space, because not that many people have 0:10:34.400 --> 0:10:37.000 actually gotten to do it. I mean, we're talking fewer 0:10:37.000 --> 0:10:40.040 than a thousand people. What was it like? 0:10:44.280 --> 0:10:46.680 Thing? And it's one of the two main reasons that 0:10:46.720 --> 0:10:49.559 I wrote the book was that you're up there, and 0:10:49.600 --> 0:10:51.760 it's not just about the floating. You know, you see 0:10:51.760 --> 0:10:54.400 my hair be big and we're floating around. It's about 0:10:54.400 --> 0:10:57.400 the fact that you fly from place to place. It's 0:10:57.440 --> 0:10:59.720 the only way to get around, and it kind of 0:10:59.720 --> 0:11:02.600 reminds you that you're in a place that almost nobody 0:11:02.640 --> 0:11:05.240 else is in. All the rules are different, which is 0:11:05.280 --> 0:11:07.480 extremely important for science and all the stuff we can 0:11:07.559 --> 0:11:10.040 learn up there. And at the same time, it's also 0:11:10.080 --> 0:11:12.080 a human thing to realize that you are one of 0:11:12.480 --> 0:11:15.040 In this case, right now, there's thirteen let's see twelve 0:11:15.080 --> 0:11:18.440 people up in space on different space stations. As we speak, 0:11:18.480 --> 0:11:20.120 and they're at the very edge. 0:11:20.760 --> 0:11:25.319 I literally cannot imagine it. And I always wonder how 0:11:25.360 --> 0:11:28.360 people prepare themselves for things. How do you even prepare 0:11:28.400 --> 0:11:31.960 for an experience that you know you've never had before. 0:11:32.040 --> 0:11:34.400 I mean, what does the physical. 0:11:34.000 --> 0:11:36.800 Reality of training look like to get ready to be 0:11:36.920 --> 0:11:37.480 in space? 0:11:39.200 --> 0:11:42.240 I think there's that all that practicing. It's the reality 0:11:42.280 --> 0:11:43.880 of needing to be as safe as you can be. 0:11:44.000 --> 0:11:46.400 Spaceflight will never be safe, but we need to be 0:11:46.440 --> 0:11:48.800 as safe as we can, and that means you, as 0:11:48.800 --> 0:11:51.240 a crew member, being able to do your part. You know, 0:11:51.320 --> 0:11:53.200 if this happens, we need to do this. If there's 0:11:53.240 --> 0:11:55.800 a fire alarm, you need to you know, don your 0:11:56.120 --> 0:11:58.840 mask and get to the main computer and you know, 0:11:58.840 --> 0:12:01.680 and take the certain steps. So we practice those things, 0:12:01.720 --> 0:12:04.319 we drill them, and we're also of course graded and 0:12:04.360 --> 0:12:08.640 watched and observed, and that adds that extra tension that 0:12:08.760 --> 0:12:11.679 helps you make the mistakes that you might make on 0:12:11.720 --> 0:12:14.920 the real day when that stress comes from seeing actual 0:12:14.960 --> 0:12:17.680 smoke or realizing you might need to lose leave the 0:12:17.720 --> 0:12:20.960 space station really quickly. So we do practice all those things. 0:12:20.960 --> 0:12:24.360 They've got great smart instructors. But then it is really 0:12:24.440 --> 0:12:27.800 just amazing to then be up there and be able 0:12:27.840 --> 0:12:30.120 to operate, and I think also to be able to 0:12:30.160 --> 0:12:33.600 be sort of mentally present as a human. That's really 0:12:33.640 --> 0:12:36.199 another big important part to think about before you go. 0:12:36.800 --> 0:12:39.280 Yeah, and I'm again so many things that I can't 0:12:39.320 --> 0:12:42.760 imagine about what you just said. Seeing smoke in space 0:12:43.360 --> 0:12:46.599 and being able to control oneself is pretty remarkable. And 0:12:46.640 --> 0:12:49.160 I'm curious what it's like coming back because you see 0:12:49.160 --> 0:12:52.400 clips on YouTube sometimes of astronauts coming back from space 0:12:52.440 --> 0:12:55.160 and they forget that they're in zero there. Now there's 0:12:55.160 --> 0:12:57.839 gravity on Earth, and they know they drop whatever they're 0:12:57.880 --> 0:13:00.480 holding because they expect it to just you know, float 0:13:00.640 --> 0:13:03.680 by them. I mean, have you had any experiences like that? 0:13:03.800 --> 0:13:05.720 What does the return trip actually look like? 0:13:07.200 --> 0:13:11.880 Well, it's I would say the words sad, wild, and 0:13:12.880 --> 0:13:15.520 then just nice to be home. I really didn't want 0:13:15.559 --> 0:13:17.840 to leave, you know, it was it takes a couple 0:13:17.800 --> 0:13:19.480 of months to get good at the work up there 0:13:19.679 --> 0:13:22.280 about not just understanding how to keep everything in its 0:13:22.320 --> 0:13:24.840 place and do all the experiments and get more done. 0:13:24.960 --> 0:13:27.440 It really has about a month long learning curse. You 0:13:27.480 --> 0:13:29.520 just want to stay and get more done. And I 0:13:29.600 --> 0:13:32.240 felt like my family would be there when I got home, 0:13:32.320 --> 0:13:34.920 and so I wanted to stay. So it's a little sad. 0:13:35.400 --> 0:13:37.640 It is as Scott Kelly, who was I was on 0:13:37.679 --> 0:13:40.520 a crew with Scott, and he talked to us before 0:13:40.559 --> 0:13:42.840 we came home and talked to us about what landing 0:13:42.920 --> 0:13:45.360 was like. You said, it's the best e ticket ride 0:13:45.480 --> 0:13:48.680 you will ever go on. Where I mean you're coming 0:13:48.800 --> 0:13:51.280 down and and I mean spacecraft are built this way 0:13:51.400 --> 0:13:54.600 where we haven't a blate of shield under the spacecraft. 0:13:54.600 --> 0:13:57.520 That means it's supposed to actually burn up, and pieces 0:13:57.559 --> 0:14:00.640 of burning spacecraft are supposed to go buy the windows. 0:14:02.120 --> 0:14:04.440 And so knowing that is very comforting, I mean actually 0:14:04.440 --> 0:14:06.760 having it narrated and understanding what's happening. And he's like, 0:14:06.920 --> 0:14:10.720 and then parachute opening. He looks at me. He goes Coleman, 0:14:11.400 --> 0:14:14.240 set a timer. Parachute opening, because you need to make 0:14:14.280 --> 0:14:18.280 sure that you are not talking because it is so abrupt, 0:14:18.280 --> 0:14:22.080 And then that capsule is spinning and swinging and it 0:14:22.160 --> 0:14:24.680 is really wild, and then it settles down and then 0:14:24.680 --> 0:14:27.560 you're just watching the watching the sort of the feet 0:14:27.680 --> 0:14:29.960 clock down and realizing you're just going to hit the 0:14:29.960 --> 0:14:32.920 ground with a really big, solid funk, and you just 0:14:32.920 --> 0:14:35.479 hope you're not going to get dragged around by that parachute. 0:14:35.640 --> 0:14:37.200 Hey Katie, I'm wondering if you can talk to us 0:14:37.200 --> 0:14:40.120 a little bit about the way that borders kind of 0:14:40.160 --> 0:14:43.440 melt in space. And the reason I'm bringing this up 0:14:43.480 --> 0:14:50.440 is because you know the ISS, for example, US Space Agency, 0:14:51.320 --> 0:14:55.840 ros Cosmos, Russian Space Agency, European Space Agency, Japan, Canada. 0:14:57.000 --> 0:14:59.600 Oftentimes you're with people from all over the world as 0:14:59.600 --> 0:15:04.280 an astro or not, and although countries might not get 0:15:04.320 --> 0:15:08.640 along on the ground, sometimes you're getting along in space. 0:15:08.680 --> 0:15:14.080 And I'm wondering what your experience was seeing the world 0:15:14.160 --> 0:15:15.160 kind of come together in. 0:15:15.080 --> 0:15:20.960 Space being part of you know, not just the mission 0:15:21.080 --> 0:15:25.080 up there, but the getting ready. It's been my experience that, 0:15:25.160 --> 0:15:26.840 you know, the governments say this is what we're going 0:15:26.920 --> 0:15:29.440 to do together, and there's formal agreements, but it is 0:15:29.560 --> 0:15:32.960 the people that really bring the mission together and make 0:15:33.000 --> 0:15:36.880 it happen, because it happens by having dinner with each other, 0:15:36.960 --> 0:15:40.560 by going for walks, by saying, what's your family like, 0:15:40.560 --> 0:15:43.360 can I meet your family? And that's really what brought 0:15:43.440 --> 0:15:47.200 our crew together. And so being up there, especially in 0:15:47.240 --> 0:15:50.000 times like these, all I can say is from what 0:15:50.120 --> 0:15:53.520 I understand everyone is doing their job and not and 0:15:53.560 --> 0:15:55.960 that means on the ground, that means the crew up 0:15:55.960 --> 0:15:59.240 in space and not even thinking about not doing their job, 0:15:59.280 --> 0:16:02.640 because the mission itself is really really clear. Up there, 0:16:02.680 --> 0:16:05.480 you are together as a crew, keeping each other safe. 0:16:05.520 --> 0:16:07.880 And you know, down here on the ground, we don't 0:16:07.920 --> 0:16:09.920 always agree with each other. Hear all about it on 0:16:09.960 --> 0:16:13.160 your show, you know. I mean, it's and it's not easy, 0:16:13.520 --> 0:16:15.440 and sometimes you just have to like put the things 0:16:15.480 --> 0:16:18.280 you can't agree about there they're not part of the 0:16:18.320 --> 0:16:20.880 mission right now, which is in our case down here 0:16:20.960 --> 0:16:22.920 figuring out how are we going to make sure everybody 0:16:22.960 --> 0:16:24.600 can live safely down here on Earth? 0:16:25.520 --> 0:16:27.240 All right, we don't have too much time left. But 0:16:27.280 --> 0:16:29.520 one thing we wanted to talk about is Mars, and 0:16:30.120 --> 0:16:35.560 we mentioned Elon Musk's lifelong dream is to colonize Mars. 0:16:35.800 --> 0:16:40.800 What are your thoughts on colonizing Mars or actually putting 0:16:40.880 --> 0:16:41.760 humans on that planet? 0:16:41.840 --> 0:16:47.480 Eventually, absolutely, we will be doing that, and I think 0:16:47.520 --> 0:16:50.000 it's a good time for everybody to be thinking about 0:16:50.000 --> 0:16:53.400 it and how to do it, and even thinking, you know, 0:16:53.680 --> 0:16:56.400 I like to think about settling Mars, which to me 0:16:56.480 --> 0:16:59.520 and Pop implies more like having a plan and going 0:16:59.520 --> 0:17:03.080 there to get there, and you know, for one country 0:17:03.800 --> 0:17:06.480 to be the only country there doesn't seem like the 0:17:06.560 --> 0:17:09.160 right thing to me. And I think that comes from 0:17:09.160 --> 0:17:11.439 that view from the space station of looking back at 0:17:11.480 --> 0:17:15.879 the Earth, and you talked about dissolving borders. When I 0:17:15.920 --> 0:17:18.720 look back there, I see, first of all, I feel 0:17:18.800 --> 0:17:22.320 very close to home. But second, I see that everyone 0:17:22.440 --> 0:17:25.800 could be and actually is so connected if only they 0:17:25.880 --> 0:17:28.600 knew how much we could accomplish more together. And that 0:17:28.680 --> 0:17:31.240 includes doing the most important thing I think we'll do, 0:17:31.280 --> 0:17:34.760 which is colonizing and going off and settling on Mars. 0:17:35.240 --> 0:17:38.159 Very very cool. Thank you so much for sharing some 0:17:38.240 --> 0:17:41.800 of your journey with us. You can read more about 0:17:42.080 --> 0:17:45.120 Katie Coleman's journey in her new book out today. It's 0:17:45.119 --> 0:17:49.800 called Sharing Space, An Astronaut's Guide to Mission Wonder and 0:17:49.880 --> 0:17:57.680 Making Change. This is business week. Think about it for 0:17:57.760 --> 0:18:01.240 a second, Katie. Games everywhere we look. 0:18:01.200 --> 0:18:04.440 They are. Yeah, they're on your phone, okay, and that's 0:18:04.440 --> 0:18:05.680 really the only place I look. 0:18:05.720 --> 0:18:10.240 Actually, I'm not just talking about good old fashion competition 0:18:10.280 --> 0:18:13.280 when you play monopoly or something, or sports or video games. 0:18:13.280 --> 0:18:14.920 I think we can call video games old fashion now, 0:18:15.000 --> 0:18:18.240 I think rightly, Okay, restaurants and apps offer us deals 0:18:18.320 --> 0:18:20.480 or allow us to level up by using a service. 0:18:20.960 --> 0:18:22.840 Maybe you wear a sleep tracker and you look at 0:18:22.840 --> 0:18:25.720 that sleep score trying to get it higher, to get 0:18:25.760 --> 0:18:28.159 more sleep. Cyclists and maybe runners. Do you do this 0:18:28.200 --> 0:18:31.120 as a runner? Are you obsessed with comparing your times 0:18:31.160 --> 0:18:32.280 on certain Strava segments? 0:18:33.119 --> 0:18:35.040 Not as much. I will say, I do wear a garment, 0:18:35.080 --> 0:18:38.399 as we've discussed, And yeah, I mean, if you're not 0:18:38.480 --> 0:18:39.880 quantifying your life, what's the point. 0:18:40.440 --> 0:18:42.960 Well, every week you're at Bloomberg, we fight for ephemeral 0:18:43.000 --> 0:18:45.919 glory against our colleagues in the Bloomberg News quiz on 0:18:46.119 --> 0:18:49.520 the Bloomberg terminal. Needless to say, there are games everywhere. 0:18:49.680 --> 0:18:52.439 And Kelly Clancy has just written an entire book about games, 0:18:52.480 --> 0:18:54.880 but not necessarily the way that I'm talking about. She's 0:18:54.920 --> 0:18:58.199 a neuroscientist, physicist, and author. She's held research positions at 0:18:58.280 --> 0:19:01.720 mit U see Berkeley, the AI research company deep Mind, 0:19:01.760 --> 0:19:04.480 and more. Her new book is called Playing with Reality, 0:19:04.840 --> 0:19:08.560 How Games Have Shaped Our World? Kelly, how are you? 0:19:09.880 --> 0:19:11.199 Thanks? Thanks so much for having me. 0:19:11.320 --> 0:19:14.600 Yeah, congratulations on the book. How do you define game? 0:19:16.200 --> 0:19:19.160 So I think of a game as a system that's 0:19:19.480 --> 0:19:23.280 endowed with a goal, and players involved in the game 0:19:23.440 --> 0:19:27.359 have to abide by certain rules to get to the goal. So, 0:19:27.440 --> 0:19:29.920 for example, with golf, the goal is to get a. 0:19:29.880 --> 0:19:32.880 Hole in a ball in the hole, but you can't 0:19:32.920 --> 0:19:34.399 just pick the ball up and walk it over to 0:19:34.440 --> 0:19:36.800 the hole. You have to hit it with funny sticks 0:19:36.800 --> 0:19:38.800 and abide by certain rules. 0:19:39.400 --> 0:19:41.760 And so, Kelly, I mean, you make the point the 0:19:41.880 --> 0:19:46.000 argument that games have been really important to human progress, 0:19:46.080 --> 0:19:49.360 and that's a big statement. So maybe just unpack what 0:19:49.440 --> 0:19:51.119 you mean by that, like, what have been some of 0:19:51.160 --> 0:19:54.240 the pivotal games out there that have advanced humanity to 0:19:54.800 --> 0:19:55.800 where we're sitting today. 0:19:56.800 --> 0:19:58.879 Yeah, so if you look at the history of games 0:19:59.200 --> 0:20:03.000 in humanity, we actually have evidence of games going back 0:20:03.040 --> 0:20:05.720 further than written language. And actually it's not just a 0:20:05.760 --> 0:20:09.160 human endeavor, of course, like almost all animals play. Mammals play. 0:20:09.200 --> 0:20:12.600 It's very hard to find animals that don't play in 0:20:12.600 --> 0:20:15.600 some form, So it's this kind of evolutionarily ancient behavior 0:20:15.880 --> 0:20:18.440 and something really important. I was working at deep Mind, 0:20:18.640 --> 0:20:22.119 and you know that this company is famous for having 0:20:22.640 --> 0:20:27.959 created AI programs that play really complex games like Go 0:20:28.240 --> 0:20:31.320