1
00:00:02,640 --> 00:00:06,160
Speaker 1: Hello Bie. You know it's something that we don't do

2
00:00:06,400 --> 00:00:08,240
Speaker 1: very often. I'm realizing on.

3
00:00:11,640 --> 00:00:13,240
Speaker 2: Because ye.

4
00:00:15,120 --> 00:00:18,320
Speaker 1: I'm asking if I can use the personal pronoun with her,

5
00:00:18,480 --> 00:00:21,680
Speaker 1: if that would be okay. I don't want to be presumptuous.

6
00:00:22,400 --> 00:00:25,160
Speaker 1: You're like in grade four again, So your French never evolved.

7
00:00:25,200 --> 00:00:27,000
Speaker 1: If I ever had a girl, you know what I

8
00:00:27,000 --> 00:00:27,640
Speaker 1: would name her?

9
00:00:27,800 --> 00:00:28,080
Speaker 2: What?

10
00:00:28,200 --> 00:00:32,640
Speaker 1: Pooh bell? That's that's French for garbage.

11
00:00:33,040 --> 00:00:33,680
Speaker 2: Oh god.

12
00:00:33,760 --> 00:00:35,240
Speaker 1: If there was a boy twin, you know what i'd

13
00:00:35,240 --> 00:00:38,560
Speaker 1: call him? What would you call him? Moutard? That's French

14
00:00:38,560 --> 00:00:41,120
Speaker 1: for mustard. Moutard and pooh bell.

15
00:00:42,760 --> 00:00:43,760
Speaker 2: Garbage and mustard.

16
00:00:44,280 --> 00:00:47,280
Speaker 1: We kind of go together, like garbage and mustard. Yep,

17
00:00:48,600 --> 00:00:59,160
Speaker 1: I'm the garbage from Gimblet Media. I'm Jonathan Goldstein and

18
00:00:59,240 --> 00:01:15,400
Speaker 1: this is Heavyweight Today's episode Sven. In two thousand and eight,

19
00:01:15,800 --> 00:01:18,240
Speaker 1: Sven received a letter for jury duty.

20
00:01:18,600 --> 00:01:19,120
Speaker 2: You know, lots of.

21
00:01:19,120 --> 00:01:21,200
Speaker 3: People would say, oh, this is such a boring thing.

22
00:01:21,200 --> 00:01:23,440
Speaker 3: Oh no, I hope I don't get jury duty. But

23
00:01:23,720 --> 00:01:27,560
Speaker 3: I was more curious and interested in like the process,

24
00:01:27,720 --> 00:01:30,600
Speaker 3: and you know, I liked watching stuff like Law and

25
00:01:30,720 --> 00:01:32,319
Speaker 3: Order and other things like that.

26
00:01:33,240 --> 00:01:36,920
Speaker 1: SVU Criminal Intent, svenn liked them all. He was a

27
00:01:36,920 --> 00:01:40,479
Speaker 1: software developer, newly married, and he and his wife had

28
00:01:40,560 --> 00:01:43,600
Speaker 1: just bought a new house, his first. The house had

29
00:01:43,640 --> 00:01:45,960
Speaker 1: a flagpole in the front and a hammock out back.

30
00:01:46,720 --> 00:01:49,160
Speaker 1: After work, he'd come home, relax on the couch and

31
00:01:49,200 --> 00:01:52,360
Speaker 1: watches legal dramas. Jury Duty was going to offer an

32
00:01:52,360 --> 00:01:54,559
Speaker 1: inside view of the TV shows he loved.

33
00:01:55,200 --> 00:01:57,880
Speaker 3: I he wasn't fooled into thinking it was some weird,

34
00:01:57,920 --> 00:02:04,040
Speaker 3: glamorous thing like that. But uh, I thought jury's were interesting,

35
00:02:04,240 --> 00:02:07,560
Speaker 3: the idea of, you know, judging your peers right or wrong.

36
00:02:08,760 --> 00:02:12,239
Speaker 3: I've all sort of had a sense of civic responsibility.

37
00:02:12,919 --> 00:02:16,200
Speaker 1: In my book, the only thing that makes responsibility less

38
00:02:16,240 --> 00:02:20,519
Speaker 1: appealing is adding the word civic to it. Paying your taxes,

39
00:02:20,760 --> 00:02:25,040
Speaker 1: appearing before his zoning board not for me. Like most,

40
00:02:25,120 --> 00:02:27,920
Speaker 1: when I appeared for Jury duty, I prayed for dismissal,

41
00:02:28,800 --> 00:02:32,120
Speaker 1: not spend. Though during the selection process he engaged with

42
00:02:32,160 --> 00:02:35,120
Speaker 1: the questions the lawyers posed as best he could, and

43
00:02:35,160 --> 00:02:37,400
Speaker 1: when he was asked how he felt about capital punishment,

44
00:02:37,800 --> 00:02:39,359
Speaker 1: he answered candidly.

45
00:02:39,240 --> 00:02:41,840
Speaker 3: I believe bad people should be punished in that way

46
00:02:41,919 --> 00:02:44,400
Speaker 3: or could be punished in that way, and so I

47
00:02:44,400 --> 00:02:46,520
Speaker 3: wouldn't say I was strongly for it, but I wasn't

48
00:02:46,520 --> 00:02:51,519
Speaker 3: against it, and consequently I got on the jury.

49
00:02:51,560 --> 00:02:54,680
Speaker 1: The case was the State of Texas versus Paul David's Story.

50
00:02:55,520 --> 00:02:57,560
Speaker 1: Story was a twenty two year old accused of the

51
00:02:57,639 --> 00:03:00,320
Speaker 1: murder of Jonas Cherry, the manager of a mini golf

52
00:03:00,360 --> 00:03:04,799
Speaker 1: course in Hearst, Texas. Story and an accomplice forced Cherry

53
00:03:04,840 --> 00:03:07,600
Speaker 1: into the back office, made him unlock the safe and

54
00:03:07,600 --> 00:03:10,239
Speaker 1: put the money a few hundred dollars in a bag,

55
00:03:10,919 --> 00:03:15,640
Speaker 1: and then they shot him multiple times. Story's trial lasted

56
00:03:15,639 --> 00:03:17,960
Speaker 1: two weeks and would have felt familiar to anyone who

57
00:03:18,000 --> 00:03:21,640
Speaker 1: watches TV courtroom dramas. There were lawyers with thick minders

58
00:03:21,639 --> 00:03:25,959
Speaker 1: full of bilistics reports and medical examinations. Character witnesses were called,

59
00:03:26,080 --> 00:03:29,560
Speaker 1: and disturbing photographs of the victim's body were shown. The

60
00:03:29,639 --> 00:03:32,400
Speaker 1: only thing missing was any suspense about the verdict.

61
00:03:32,800 --> 00:03:38,040
Speaker 3: There was no doubt that he was guilty of murder

62
00:03:38,160 --> 00:03:41,440
Speaker 3: and robbery, and so really, as a jury, all we

63
00:03:41,520 --> 00:03:42,880
Speaker 3: had to worry about was sentencing.

64
00:03:44,160 --> 00:03:46,960
Speaker 1: The jury had to decide between life imprisonment or the

65
00:03:46,960 --> 00:03:50,120
Speaker 1: death penalty. It seemed the victim's family knew what they

66
00:03:50,160 --> 00:03:54,120
Speaker 1: wanted it should go without saying the prosecutor announced his

67
00:03:54,280 --> 00:03:57,040
Speaker 1: Fen and the other jurors that all of Jonas's family

68
00:03:57,120 --> 00:03:59,960
Speaker 1: and everyone who loved him believed the death penalty is appropriate.

69
00:04:01,280 --> 00:04:04,240
Speaker 1: The prosecutor asked the jurors to sentence Paul's story to death.

70
00:04:05,040 --> 00:04:08,200
Speaker 1: The instruction stated that for the death penalty to be imposed,

71
00:04:08,480 --> 00:04:11,680
Speaker 1: the jurors must judge three things to be true. That

72
00:04:11,720 --> 00:04:15,280
Speaker 1: Paul's story was guilty, That there were no mitigating circumstances

73
00:04:15,360 --> 00:04:19,520
Speaker 1: like say, mental illness or provocation. And lastly, that story

74
00:04:19,560 --> 00:04:21,479
Speaker 1: posed a future threat to his community.

75
00:04:21,800 --> 00:04:23,960
Speaker 2: That was the one I had issue with.

76
00:04:25,000 --> 00:04:29,640
Speaker 3: I seriously doubted that he would be a continuing threat

77
00:04:30,320 --> 00:04:32,680
Speaker 3: to the prison community.

78
00:04:33,360 --> 00:04:37,000
Speaker 1: And what was it about Paul's story that made you

79
00:04:37,080 --> 00:04:41,400
Speaker 1: feel like you just didn't see him as a continued threat?

80
00:04:42,760 --> 00:04:43,599
Speaker 2: A couple of things.

81
00:04:44,720 --> 00:04:47,719
Speaker 1: His testimony, the young man's Fen saw in the courtroom

82
00:04:48,000 --> 00:04:51,880
Speaker 1: appeared confused, in over his head, and remorseful. This was

83
00:04:51,880 --> 00:04:54,680
Speaker 1: his first offense, and some of the evidence suggested that

84
00:04:54,760 --> 00:04:57,280
Speaker 1: it was Story's accomplice who'd been the mastermind behind the

85
00:04:57,320 --> 00:05:01,239
Speaker 1: horrible crime, as well as the one who'd fired Savin

86
00:05:01,400 --> 00:05:03,760
Speaker 1: was certain that Paul's story should be punished, but he

87
00:05:03,800 --> 00:05:05,240
Speaker 1: didn't think he should be put to death.

88
00:05:05,920 --> 00:05:14,800
Speaker 3: But in the chambers there was a very different feel.

89
00:05:15,720 --> 00:05:20,440
Speaker 3: Everyone else was in favor of the death penalty, and

90
00:05:20,520 --> 00:05:23,200
Speaker 3: so faced with you know, almost a dozen other people

91
00:05:23,240 --> 00:05:29,440
Speaker 3: who already felt strongly, I didn't think I could convince

92
00:05:31,200 --> 00:05:35,200
Speaker 3: anyone that of what I was thinking. I'll be honest,

93
00:05:35,200 --> 00:05:35,800
Speaker 3: I was scared.

94
00:05:37,520 --> 00:05:40,200
Speaker 1: At twenty seven, Savan was the youngest juror by about

95
00:05:40,240 --> 00:05:42,200
Speaker 1: ten years, and he was the kind of guy who

96
00:05:42,279 --> 00:05:45,599
Speaker 1: avoided speaking up at all costs. At home, if his

97
00:05:45,640 --> 00:05:48,840
Speaker 1: neighbor parked in his space, he let it go. At

98
00:05:48,839 --> 00:05:51,360
Speaker 1: the office, if his boss told him to do something,

99
00:05:51,720 --> 00:05:55,480
Speaker 1: even if he disagreed, he did it without question. In

100
00:05:55,520 --> 00:05:57,960
Speaker 1: other words, even though he'd been looking forward to being

101
00:05:57,960 --> 00:06:01,280
Speaker 1: a juror, when he found himself in the jury, Sven

102
00:06:01,320 --> 00:06:05,760
Speaker 1: wasn't exactly Henry Fonda and twelve angry men. The way

103
00:06:05,800 --> 00:06:09,000
Speaker 1: he understood it, the jurors had to reach unanimous decision,

104
00:06:09,480 --> 00:06:12,200
Speaker 1: and the idea of swaying eleven strangers over to his

105
00:06:12,279 --> 00:06:16,000
Speaker 1: way of thinking seemed impossible. He was also afraid that

106
00:06:16,000 --> 00:06:18,000
Speaker 1: if he opposed the group, he would result in a

107
00:06:18,080 --> 00:06:20,800
Speaker 1: hung jury. In a mistrial, they'd have to start the

108
00:06:20,839 --> 00:06:24,400
Speaker 1: whole process over again with a new jury everyone would

109
00:06:24,440 --> 00:06:28,680
Speaker 1: be mad at him, so Sven said nothing. An hour

110
00:06:28,720 --> 00:06:32,080
Speaker 1: and a half later, Paul's story was sentenced to death

111
00:06:32,120 --> 00:06:33,120
Speaker 1: by lethal injection.

112
00:06:35,760 --> 00:06:38,120
Speaker 3: It was hard to look at him during the sentence.

113
00:06:41,680 --> 00:06:45,440
Speaker 3: We sat waiting for the judge to ask us, you know,

114
00:06:45,480 --> 00:06:48,720
Speaker 3: what's the sentencing, and everyone was really tense. And the

115
00:06:48,760 --> 00:06:53,640
Speaker 3: woman next to me, another juror, began crying. She's trying

116
00:06:53,640 --> 00:06:57,640
Speaker 3: to hide it, you know. And I gave him my

117
00:06:57,720 --> 00:07:04,680
Speaker 3: handkerchief and she just wept. Then the foreman announced the verdict,

118
00:07:05,320 --> 00:07:10,360
Speaker 3: and I think his mother cried out. They had an

119
00:07:10,400 --> 00:07:13,120
Speaker 3: exit for us to go through after we collected our things,

120
00:07:14,040 --> 00:07:19,320
Speaker 3: and we were out of that courtroom fast.

121
00:07:20,400 --> 00:07:22,080
Speaker 2: It felt like a mistake right away.

122
00:07:23,760 --> 00:07:25,800
Speaker 1: Svan went over to his parents' house, where he had

123
00:07:25,800 --> 00:07:28,600
Speaker 1: dinner and drank scotch with his dad. He told his

124
00:07:28,680 --> 00:07:31,480
Speaker 1: family about the trial, and then he went home, where

125
00:07:31,480 --> 00:07:33,040
Speaker 1: he had more to drink before bed.

126
00:07:33,600 --> 00:07:35,200
Speaker 2: And then that was that. Then it was over.

127
00:07:36,960 --> 00:07:41,400
Speaker 3: And I went on with my life, or at least

128
00:07:41,400 --> 00:07:41,960
Speaker 3: he tried to.

129
00:07:42,760 --> 00:07:48,560
Speaker 2: But what do you do with these feelings? I was

130
00:07:48,640 --> 00:07:49,120
Speaker 2: just stuck.

131
00:07:49,280 --> 00:07:53,400
Speaker 3: I felt massive amounts of regret. I felt, you know,

132
00:07:53,600 --> 00:07:58,680
Speaker 3: I felt guilty, you know, sending someone to death row.

133
00:08:00,400 --> 00:08:03,160
Speaker 1: When you think about the people a capital murder trial effects,

134
00:08:03,520 --> 00:08:06,560
Speaker 1: you think of the victims, their loved ones, the accused

135
00:08:06,640 --> 00:08:09,720
Speaker 1: and their families and what they're going through. You don't

136
00:08:09,760 --> 00:08:12,680
Speaker 1: usually think about what it does to the jurors. But

137
00:08:12,720 --> 00:08:15,360
Speaker 1: for Spen, the trial wasn't something he could put behind

138
00:08:15,440 --> 00:08:17,880
Speaker 1: him at the crack of a gavel. In the days

139
00:08:17,880 --> 00:08:20,680
Speaker 1: and weeks after the verdict, he read every article about

140
00:08:20,680 --> 00:08:23,440
Speaker 1: the case he could find, but the more he read,

141
00:08:23,720 --> 00:08:27,080
Speaker 1: the more shame he felt. So eventually he just stopped.

142
00:08:27,920 --> 00:08:29,480
Speaker 2: I realized it wasn't really healthy.

143
00:08:30,360 --> 00:08:32,960
Speaker 1: At the time. Spenn was a regular drinker, and.

144
00:08:32,920 --> 00:08:35,560
Speaker 2: It only got worse after the trial. But got a

145
00:08:35,600 --> 00:08:36,840
Speaker 2: lot worse after the trial.

146
00:08:37,240 --> 00:08:39,400
Speaker 1: He was drinking more beginning as soon as he got

147
00:08:39,400 --> 00:08:42,400
Speaker 1: home from work and spending more days hung over. His

148
00:08:42,440 --> 00:08:44,160
Speaker 1: wife didn't understand what was going on.

149
00:08:45,040 --> 00:08:49,080
Speaker 3: It may have contributed to my divorce, which was the

150
00:08:49,120 --> 00:08:49,800
Speaker 3: following year.

151
00:08:51,559 --> 00:08:54,280
Speaker 1: A year after the trial and Sveen's life had changed.

152
00:08:54,760 --> 00:08:56,880
Speaker 1: The new house with the hammock and the flagpole was

153
00:08:56,920 --> 00:09:08,400
Speaker 1: sold and Spen moved out of Texas. Sven settled in Olympia,

154
00:09:08,520 --> 00:09:11,680
Speaker 1: Washington to start his life over. He found an apartment

155
00:09:11,720 --> 00:09:14,440
Speaker 1: for himself and his cat Niku, but he couldn't shake

156
00:09:14,440 --> 00:09:17,200
Speaker 1: his memories of the trial. When a friend bought a

157
00:09:17,240 --> 00:09:20,439
Speaker 1: second hand silver Nissan, Sven couldn't stop thinking about how

158
00:09:20,440 --> 00:09:22,880
Speaker 1: that was the same car as the victim, Jonas Cherry

159
00:09:22,960 --> 00:09:27,120
Speaker 1: had driven. When addressing coworkers, the name Jonas would accidentally

160
00:09:27,200 --> 00:09:30,719
Speaker 1: slip from Spen's lips, and Paul's Story, who still was

161
00:09:30,760 --> 00:09:34,600
Speaker 1: on death row, was never far from Sveen's mind. He

162
00:09:34,679 --> 00:09:37,200
Speaker 1: tried to escape through alcohol, but it didn't free him

163
00:09:37,240 --> 00:09:41,120
Speaker 1: from his shame. Sometimes after a night out drinking, he'd

164
00:09:41,120 --> 00:09:44,000
Speaker 1: return to a Facebook page Paul Story's mother had made

165
00:09:44,000 --> 00:09:47,720
Speaker 1: for Paul. One mother had already lost her son, and

166
00:09:47,800 --> 00:09:50,640
Speaker 1: now because Fenn had been too afraid to speak up,

167
00:09:51,120 --> 00:09:52,880
Speaker 1: another mother was going to as well.

168
00:09:53,440 --> 00:09:56,440
Speaker 3: I'm not trying to excuse his crime. It was terrible,

169
00:09:57,600 --> 00:09:59,920
Speaker 3: but to Sunday guide it doath for anyon?

170
00:10:00,200 --> 00:10:01,040
Speaker 2: Is it all that?

171
00:10:01,280 --> 00:10:07,679
Speaker 3: Just the presence in your mind, the sort of recurring

172
00:10:08,120 --> 00:10:08,920
Speaker 3: thoughts about it?

173
00:10:10,520 --> 00:10:11,439
Speaker 2: Can that go away?

174
00:10:13,480 --> 00:10:17,120
Speaker 1: For all the bad rapid gets Shame offers a certain safety.

175
00:10:17,800 --> 00:10:20,719
Speaker 1: It provides a comfortable hole to hide in away from

176
00:10:20,760 --> 00:10:23,800
Speaker 1: the judgment of others, but it can also lead to

177
00:10:23,800 --> 00:10:28,000
Speaker 1: isolation and inertia, and for eight years, eight years in

178
00:10:28,040 --> 00:10:31,360
Speaker 1: which Paul's Story sat on death row awaiting an execution date,

179
00:10:31,800 --> 00:10:35,360
Speaker 1: Sven barely talked about the trial with anybody. But then,

180
00:10:35,600 --> 00:10:39,080
Speaker 1: in twenty sixteen, the year after Paul Story's federal appeal

181
00:10:39,120 --> 00:10:42,280
Speaker 1: had been denied, a reporter writing a series of articles

182
00:10:42,280 --> 00:10:45,760
Speaker 1: about the judicial system approached Ven about his experience as

183
00:10:45,760 --> 00:10:48,800
Speaker 1: a juror. Sven was tired of being all alone with

184
00:10:48,880 --> 00:10:52,160
Speaker 1: his regrets, and so for the first time, he opened

185
00:10:52,240 --> 00:10:56,040
Speaker 1: up about his feelings. I felt guilty, he told the reporter,

186
00:10:56,520 --> 00:10:59,760
Speaker 1: and sad and a little helpless. I don't think I

187
00:10:59,760 --> 00:11:03,360
Speaker 1: made the right call. Sven had hoped that talking about

188
00:11:03,360 --> 00:11:06,520
Speaker 1: the trial might help, and it did up until the

189
00:11:06,640 --> 00:11:10,120
Speaker 1: article was published. That was when Spen received an uncomfortable

190
00:11:10,160 --> 00:11:13,280
Speaker 1: phone call from a lawyer who'd read the article. Sveen

191
00:11:13,400 --> 00:11:17,079
Speaker 1: was at work, fearing his coworkers might overhear, he took

192
00:11:17,160 --> 00:11:20,880
Speaker 1: the call outside behind his office building. It was there

193
00:11:21,000 --> 00:11:24,319
Speaker 1: that he learned that eight years earlier, he'd misunderstood a

194
00:11:24,400 --> 00:11:27,040
Speaker 1: key part of the jury instructions.

195
00:11:27,760 --> 00:11:29,720
Speaker 2: I thought incorrectly.

196
00:11:30,160 --> 00:11:35,960
Speaker 3: Essentially, I believed I would have to convince everyone to

197
00:11:36,040 --> 00:11:42,520
Speaker 3: choose life imprisonment. When In fact, all I had to

198
00:11:42,600 --> 00:11:48,679
Speaker 3: do was declined the death penalty, and that's all it

199
00:11:48,720 --> 00:11:49,400
Speaker 3: would have taken.

200
00:11:50,679 --> 00:11:54,679
Speaker 1: Preventing the death sentence only required one dissenting vote, a

201
00:11:54,800 --> 00:11:57,520
Speaker 1: vote Spen could have cast, so there would have been

202
00:11:57,559 --> 00:12:01,280
Speaker 1: no mistrial, no hungury, and instead of the death penalty,

203
00:12:01,600 --> 00:12:04,160
Speaker 1: Paul's story would have gotten life in prison without parole.

204
00:12:04,920 --> 00:12:06,480
Speaker 3: And that would that would have been nice to know

205
00:12:08,320 --> 00:12:12,160
Speaker 3: I could have changed Oh, I could have let him live.

206
00:12:19,440 --> 00:12:22,880
Speaker 1: After the article was published, something else happened, something Spenn

207
00:12:23,000 --> 00:12:28,079
Speaker 1: never expected or wanted. Paul Story's mother, Marilyn, got in touch.

208
00:12:28,760 --> 00:12:33,959
Speaker 3: She reached out with an email filled with sentiments of forgiveness.

209
00:12:34,760 --> 00:12:39,200
Speaker 3: She had forgiven me and if I wanted to, I

210
00:12:39,240 --> 00:12:44,320
Speaker 3: could reach out and talk with her. And knowing that

211
00:12:44,360 --> 00:12:47,199
Speaker 3: there was that forgiveness, it felt so weird like it.

212
00:12:47,200 --> 00:12:49,359
Speaker 3: It wasn't something I could completely understand.

213
00:12:50,760 --> 00:12:53,839
Speaker 1: Forri Sven, it didn't make sense. Why would Marilyn want

214
00:12:53,880 --> 00:12:56,760
Speaker 1: to speak with him? How could she, of all people,

215
00:12:57,160 --> 00:12:59,440
Speaker 1: forgive him for something he couldn't forgive himself.

216
00:13:00,280 --> 00:13:03,040
Speaker 3: I didn't know how to deal with I still kind

217
00:13:03,040 --> 00:13:04,280
Speaker 3: of don't know how to deal with that.

218
00:13:05,400 --> 00:13:09,320
Speaker 2: And I couldn't. I couldn't. I couldn't match her message.

219
00:13:09,640 --> 00:13:12,280
Speaker 2: How do you mean? Well?

220
00:13:12,640 --> 00:13:16,960
Speaker 3: I wasn't sure how to reply with something as powerful

221
00:13:16,960 --> 00:13:17,280
Speaker 3: as that.

222
00:13:18,720 --> 00:13:20,520
Speaker 2: It just floored me. I didn't know what to say.

223
00:13:21,760 --> 00:13:23,800
Speaker 1: Sven was never able to write Maryland back.

224
00:13:25,040 --> 00:13:30,080
Speaker 2: I did began a reply, but I didn't.

225
00:13:31,320 --> 00:13:36,280
Speaker 3: I didn't have the courage to finish or send it.

226
00:13:36,280 --> 00:13:39,240
Speaker 3: It's just, you know, there's so much pain in there,

227
00:13:39,280 --> 00:13:44,839
Speaker 3: and I feel like I really wrecked things up.

228
00:13:50,160 --> 00:13:53,400
Speaker 1: A few months after Spenn received Maryland's email, an execution

229
00:13:53,559 --> 00:13:56,319
Speaker 1: date was set. The state would put Paul's Story to

230
00:13:56,400 --> 00:14:00,880
Speaker 1: death on April twelfth of twenty seventeen. But then something

231
00:14:00,960 --> 00:14:05,240
Speaker 1: unexpected happened. Glenn and Judith Cherry, the parents of the victim,

232
00:14:05,360 --> 00:14:09,160
Speaker 1: came forward. It seems that at the trial the prosecution

233
00:14:09,320 --> 00:14:13,000
Speaker 1: had lied. The Cherries, in spite of their son's murder,

234
00:14:13,160 --> 00:14:17,439
Speaker 1: are and always have been, against capital punishment. In a

235
00:14:17,520 --> 00:14:21,880
Speaker 1: video they released publicly, Judith Cherry presents a statement which reads,

236
00:14:22,080 --> 00:14:25,800
Speaker 1: in part, we do not want Paul Story's family, especially

237
00:14:25,800 --> 00:14:29,040
Speaker 1: a mother, to witness the purposeful execution of their son.

238
00:14:29,920 --> 00:14:34,120
Speaker 1: They are innocent of his deeds. Based on this testimony,

239
00:14:34,480 --> 00:14:38,760
Speaker 1: with only five days to spare, Paul Story's execution was postponed.

240
00:14:40,200 --> 00:14:43,000
Speaker 1: When news of the stay of execution reached Fenn, it

241
00:14:43,080 --> 00:14:46,680
Speaker 1: felt like a second chance, an opening to finally respond

242
00:14:46,680 --> 00:14:50,480
Speaker 1: to Marilyn's email. But he didn't. It's now been over

243
00:14:50,520 --> 00:14:54,400
Speaker 1: two years, he's remarried, doesn't drink anymore, but he still

244
00:14:54,400 --> 00:14:58,640
Speaker 1: hasn't contacted Marilyn. And so at this point, what do

245
00:14:58,680 --> 00:14:59,240
Speaker 1: you want?

246
00:15:02,000 --> 00:15:04,480
Speaker 2: I need to apologize for not.

247
00:15:06,680 --> 00:15:08,480
Speaker 3: For not doing what I should have done to begin with,

248
00:15:08,600 --> 00:15:11,360
Speaker 3: for not following my gut, for not trying.

249
00:15:17,320 --> 00:15:20,560
Speaker 1: Shame leads to inertia, And as even the most casual

250
00:15:20,600 --> 00:15:23,400
Speaker 1: reader of the fundamentals of physics will tell you, an

251
00:15:23,400 --> 00:15:26,680
Speaker 1: inert object will remain inert until it is acted upon

252
00:15:26,840 --> 00:15:30,440
Speaker 1: by an external force. In other words, it takes a

253
00:15:30,440 --> 00:15:34,240
Speaker 1: little nudge. And who better to supply a little nudge

254
00:15:34,600 --> 00:15:38,440
Speaker 1: than a little nudge. And so I write Marilyn a letter.

255
00:15:39,280 --> 00:15:41,960
Speaker 1: I know this is a really sensitive and deeply personal issue.

256
00:15:42,000 --> 00:15:44,480
Speaker 1: It reads, and I hope I'm not being too forward.

257
00:15:45,200 --> 00:15:47,280
Speaker 1: I ask Marilyn if she remembers a juror by the

258
00:15:47,320 --> 00:15:50,720
Speaker 1: name of spen Burger. About a week later, I receive

259
00:15:50,760 --> 00:15:53,600
Speaker 1: a note back via email. Thank you so much for

260
00:15:53,640 --> 00:15:56,680
Speaker 1: your letter, Marilyn, writes, I have no ill will toward

261
00:15:56,760 --> 00:15:59,680
Speaker 1: mister Berger. I have offered on my email address as

262
00:15:59,680 --> 00:16:03,120
Speaker 1: well as my phone number with no reply. She also

263
00:16:03,200 --> 00:16:05,960
Speaker 1: forwards me her original email to Fenn, the one she

264
00:16:06,040 --> 00:16:08,760
Speaker 1: sent two years ago, the one he can't stop thinking

265
00:16:08,760 --> 00:16:12,680
Speaker 1: about when I read it. I'm expecting a grand gesture

266
00:16:12,680 --> 00:16:17,200
Speaker 1: of forgiveness, but Marilyn never mentions forgiveness, never even uses

267
00:16:17,240 --> 00:16:21,200
Speaker 1: the word. Instead, it's just six short sentences in which

268
00:16:21,200 --> 00:16:23,840
Speaker 1: Marilyn thanks Vin for the article and says she shared

269
00:16:23,880 --> 00:16:27,400
Speaker 1: it with her son. Her tone's breezy. She ends with,

270
00:16:27,720 --> 00:16:32,600
Speaker 1: have a great day exclamation mark. I understand That'svenn, consumed

271
00:16:32,600 --> 00:16:35,880
Speaker 1: by guilt, would read so much into so little. What

272
00:16:35,920 --> 00:16:38,760
Speaker 1: I don't understand is why Marilyn sent him the email

273
00:16:38,840 --> 00:16:39,720
Speaker 1: in the first place.

274
00:17:03,440 --> 00:17:07,240
Speaker 2: I know you're jokingly mentioned breakfast. Oh, I was joking.

275
00:17:07,720 --> 00:17:08,720
Speaker 2: I have, like I.

276
00:17:08,640 --> 00:17:11,560
Speaker 1: Have a couple of little things if you get packish

277
00:17:11,600 --> 00:17:15,840
Speaker 1: at all, some croissant, some of this stuff I don't know,

278
00:17:15,920 --> 00:17:20,440
Speaker 1: some cookies, yeah, okay. Marylyn lives in Fort Worth, Texas.

279
00:17:20,760 --> 00:17:23,000
Speaker 1: The two of us meet in a hotel suite downtown,

280
00:17:23,400 --> 00:17:25,760
Speaker 1: where I can't stop offering her food, but she can't

281
00:17:25,800 --> 00:17:26,560
Speaker 1: stop refusing.

282
00:17:27,119 --> 00:17:29,000
Speaker 2: Do you want to have a coffee or cheek?

283
00:17:29,359 --> 00:17:29,600
Speaker 4: No.

284
00:17:30,240 --> 00:17:34,720
Speaker 1: Marilyn is tall and stately, with smiling eyes. She's in slacks, boots,

285
00:17:34,720 --> 00:17:37,639
Speaker 1: and a crop blazer, all in black. She sits on

286
00:17:37,680 --> 00:17:39,960
Speaker 1: the end of the couch next to an empty armchair

287
00:17:40,280 --> 00:17:41,760
Speaker 1: and tries to give me a sense of what her

288
00:17:41,760 --> 00:17:43,199
Speaker 1: life was like before the trial.

289
00:17:43,800 --> 00:17:45,719
Speaker 5: I was always the life of the party. I mean,

290
00:17:45,760 --> 00:17:48,840
Speaker 5: I was a joster. Oh make sure you have Marylynd there,

291
00:17:48,880 --> 00:17:51,800
Speaker 5: because she's gonna keep the party going. I was always

292
00:17:51,840 --> 00:17:54,040
Speaker 5: kind of the one that everybody went to. People know,

293
00:17:54,119 --> 00:17:55,680
Speaker 5: you can call me in the middle of the night.

294
00:17:56,400 --> 00:17:58,639
Speaker 5: You know, if you need somebody to come pick you up,

295
00:17:58,720 --> 00:18:00,720
Speaker 5: you call Maryland. She'd get up, She'll go do it.

296
00:18:01,400 --> 00:18:04,479
Speaker 1: Since the trial, Maryland doesn't feel like the same person.

297
00:18:05,200 --> 00:18:07,639
Speaker 1: But after ten years, her friends and family want her

298
00:18:07,680 --> 00:18:09,520
Speaker 1: to go back to being the same old Maryland she

299
00:18:09,600 --> 00:18:10,240
Speaker 1: always was.

300
00:18:10,800 --> 00:18:13,919
Speaker 5: So it went through a transition of my family not

301
00:18:14,080 --> 00:18:17,000
Speaker 5: understanding because it's like, Okay, you know, well, why aren't

302
00:18:17,000 --> 00:18:20,560
Speaker 5: you cheery and happy like you used to? And you

303
00:18:20,640 --> 00:18:21,879
Speaker 5: got to go on with your life.

304
00:18:22,200 --> 00:18:25,320
Speaker 1: But this is Maryland's life. Every day she's reckoning with

305
00:18:25,359 --> 00:18:28,640
Speaker 1: the horror of her son's crime and worrying endlessly about

306
00:18:28,640 --> 00:18:32,199
Speaker 1: his safety in prison. The thing that's hardest, though, is

307
00:18:32,200 --> 00:18:34,560
Speaker 1: the way the people closest to her now look upon

308
00:18:34,560 --> 00:18:37,879
Speaker 1: her son. She says that everyone's past judgment on Paul

309
00:18:38,080 --> 00:18:41,320
Speaker 1: written him off as worthless and unredeemable, and they blame

310
00:18:41,440 --> 00:18:42,240
Speaker 1: him for her pain.

311
00:18:42,720 --> 00:18:45,639
Speaker 5: And I even had a family remember where Paul is

312
00:18:45,720 --> 00:18:48,920
Speaker 5: the cause of all of this, and that was.

313
00:18:50,520 --> 00:18:51,359
Speaker 2: Very hurtful.

314
00:18:52,119 --> 00:18:56,120
Speaker 5: It's like they wanted everything to be okay. But that's

315
00:18:56,160 --> 00:18:59,159
Speaker 5: my child, and I love him and I'm not going

316
00:18:59,240 --> 00:19:01,199
Speaker 5: to ever stop fighting for him.

317
00:19:02,040 --> 00:19:04,520
Speaker 1: Fighting for him meant working with her son's lawyers to

318
00:19:04,600 --> 00:19:06,280
Speaker 1: change his sentence to life in prison.

319
00:19:06,640 --> 00:19:09,120
Speaker 5: Paul's appeals more exhausting.

320
00:19:09,960 --> 00:19:12,120
Speaker 1: It took up all of her time and energy, which

321
00:19:12,119 --> 00:19:15,400
Speaker 1: affected the hospitality job she worked at for over thirty years.

322
00:19:15,800 --> 00:19:20,080
Speaker 5: It became extremely hard for me to concentrate at work,

323
00:19:20,320 --> 00:19:22,600
Speaker 5: and I feel like it cost me my job.

324
00:19:23,560 --> 00:19:26,879
Speaker 1: After losing her job, Marilyn then lost her house. She

325
00:19:26,960 --> 00:19:28,720
Speaker 1: was forced to move in with her younger son.

326
00:19:29,040 --> 00:19:30,879
Speaker 5: So it's kind of like, you know, at my age,

327
00:19:30,920 --> 00:19:33,679
Speaker 5: where I felt that i'd be getting ready to retire,

328
00:19:33,920 --> 00:19:38,920
Speaker 5: I'm storing over. So that's a hard thing.

329
00:19:46,240 --> 00:19:49,520
Speaker 1: Ten years after the trial, and everyone, her friends, her

330
00:19:49,520 --> 00:19:53,639
Speaker 1: family have all moved on. So when Marilyn reads friend's article,

331
00:19:54,080 --> 00:19:57,000
Speaker 1: she saw in him someone like her, someone who never

332
00:19:57,040 --> 00:20:00,400
Speaker 1: gotten past that final day of the trial, and they.

333
00:20:00,359 --> 00:20:06,119
Speaker 5: Actually gave the sentence, the death penalty. I thought I

334
00:20:06,160 --> 00:20:10,600
Speaker 5: had died. I thought I had literally died. It didn't

335
00:20:10,640 --> 00:20:16,320
Speaker 5: even register because I'm just like, what just happened? What

336
00:20:16,440 --> 00:20:20,280
Speaker 5: have they done? You know? My whole time there, I

337
00:20:20,359 --> 00:20:23,280
Speaker 5: was just look at the jurors to try to read, Okay,

338
00:20:23,560 --> 00:20:24,520
Speaker 5: what are they thinking?

339
00:20:24,640 --> 00:20:25,520
Speaker 2: What are they doing?

340
00:20:27,520 --> 00:20:30,359
Speaker 5: I wanted them to know if I could only tell

341
00:20:30,359 --> 00:20:33,160
Speaker 5: them what kind of person he is, And I want

342
00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:36,120
Speaker 5: people to know, you know, everybody's they're assumed that if

343
00:20:36,119 --> 00:20:38,480
Speaker 5: you're involved in a hang his crime like that.

344
00:20:38,480 --> 00:20:39,320
Speaker 2: That you're a monster.

345
00:20:39,640 --> 00:20:40,720
Speaker 5: But he wasn't a monster.

346
00:20:46,600 --> 00:20:47,960
Speaker 2: Okay, so he's going to come up.

347
00:20:48,440 --> 00:20:50,440
Speaker 1: Marilyn and I have been talking for about an hour

348
00:20:50,480 --> 00:20:52,480
Speaker 1: and a half. When the front desk funds.

349
00:20:57,040 --> 00:21:03,520
Speaker 5: As the n spin Yes, I'll hope I get that

350
00:21:03,640 --> 00:21:05,000
Speaker 5: before he gets it.

351
00:21:05,920 --> 00:21:08,199
Speaker 1: But before we get a chance to practice our fans.

352
00:21:08,680 --> 00:21:14,359
Speaker 1: Sven is at the door, Jonathan, it's very nice to

353
00:21:15,280 --> 00:21:21,879
Speaker 1: Marilyn is here Spin Sven lingers in the door of

354
00:21:21,920 --> 00:21:25,400
Speaker 1: the hotel room. Here, sit down, have a seat over there.

355
00:21:25,960 --> 00:21:29,240
Speaker 1: He's bespectacled, neatly dressed in a collared shirt and sweater.

356
00:21:29,720 --> 00:21:31,359
Speaker 1: He looks around and clears his throat.

357
00:21:31,760 --> 00:21:33,440
Speaker 6: I'm a little nervous.

358
00:21:34,359 --> 00:21:34,479
Speaker 2: So.

359
00:21:35,680 --> 00:21:37,560
Speaker 1: The last time Marilyn and s Fan had been in

360
00:21:37,600 --> 00:21:40,359
Speaker 1: the same room was ten years ago. At the trial,

361
00:21:41,160 --> 00:21:43,680
Speaker 1: Marilyn was seated behind the bar span sat in the

362
00:21:43,760 --> 00:21:47,359
Speaker 1: jury box, But today he sits down in the empty

363
00:21:47,400 --> 00:21:50,320
Speaker 1: armchair beside her. He can't quite bring himself to look

364
00:21:50,359 --> 00:21:52,679
Speaker 1: at her. As he tells Marilyn what it was like

365
00:21:52,720 --> 00:21:55,440
Speaker 1: to receive her email, he gazes down at his lap.

366
00:21:57,440 --> 00:22:02,359
Speaker 3: It was it was very surprising, and I read it

367
00:22:02,400 --> 00:22:04,840
Speaker 3: and I reread it, and I even.

368
00:22:05,040 --> 00:22:08,080
Speaker 2: Began several letters that never went anywhere. I didn't know

369
00:22:08,080 --> 00:22:09,560
Speaker 2: what to say. What do you say about that?

370
00:22:10,560 --> 00:22:12,840
Speaker 3: I don't want to write a letter that's trying to

371
00:22:12,840 --> 00:22:15,240
Speaker 3: make me feel better, do you know what I mean?

372
00:22:17,680 --> 00:22:20,760
Speaker 3: From the moment the vote was cast, I had regret.

373
00:22:20,920 --> 00:22:26,119
Speaker 3: I thought I am doing the wrong thing. And although

374
00:22:26,480 --> 00:22:29,679
Speaker 3: it was great hearing that you know you forgave me,

375
00:22:30,240 --> 00:22:33,080
Speaker 3: I couldn't forgive myself exactly.

376
00:22:33,720 --> 00:22:35,879
Speaker 2: And I can't even imagine how you must feel.

377
00:22:37,720 --> 00:22:40,320
Speaker 5: Okay, first of all, I want to say, I don't

378
00:22:40,320 --> 00:22:42,760
Speaker 5: want you to feel shamed, because you know my son

379
00:22:42,920 --> 00:22:48,440
Speaker 5: was involved in a crime. He made a wrong choice.

380
00:22:49,280 --> 00:22:52,040
Speaker 5: And I don't ever want you to feel that you

381
00:22:52,080 --> 00:22:56,080
Speaker 5: did anything wrong. You did what you felt you had

382
00:22:56,119 --> 00:23:01,080
Speaker 5: to do at the time, but you came back and

383
00:23:01,119 --> 00:23:05,040
Speaker 5: for you to come out and for you to say, hey,

384
00:23:06,119 --> 00:23:09,359
Speaker 5: I made a mistake, you write your wrong.

385
00:23:11,680 --> 00:23:14,080
Speaker 1: I can tell by Sven's face that he isn't convinced,

386
00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:17,960
Speaker 1: he doesn't feel like he's righted anything. This is because

387
00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:21,119
Speaker 1: for years Spen has been avoiding all traces of the case.

388
00:23:21,680 --> 00:23:25,440
Speaker 1: No googling, no newspapers. He never even read the article

389
00:23:25,480 --> 00:23:28,920
Speaker 1: he'd been interviewed for. So he doesn't know what Marilynd knows,

390
00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:32,280
Speaker 1: which is the chain of events that his articles set

391
00:23:32,320 --> 00:23:40,720
Speaker 1: in motion. The jury instructions for Paul Story's case were

392
00:23:40,720 --> 00:23:43,680
Speaker 1: written in dense legal ees, and nowhere in their nine

393
00:23:43,720 --> 00:23:46,520
Speaker 1: pages did they state that a single dissenting vote can

394
00:23:46,520 --> 00:23:50,199
Speaker 1: prevent the death penalty. In fact, courts in Texas are

395
00:23:50,200 --> 00:23:54,240
Speaker 1: prohibited from telling jurors that. In theory, that's to encourage

396
00:23:54,280 --> 00:23:57,280
Speaker 1: them to arrive at a consensus. Well, What it means

397
00:23:57,359 --> 00:24:02,080
Speaker 1: is Spen's confusion wasn't his fault. For years, legal advocates

398
00:24:02,080 --> 00:24:04,639
Speaker 1: had wanted to bring a bill before the legislature. They

399
00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:08,359
Speaker 1: would clarify the instructions, but they needed someone who could say,

400
00:24:08,640 --> 00:24:11,480
Speaker 1: I would have done things differently if I had understood.

401
00:24:12,119 --> 00:24:15,080
Speaker 1: Marilyn explains to FN that with him and the things

402
00:24:15,080 --> 00:24:17,800
Speaker 1: he'd said in the article, they'd finally found that person.

403
00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:20,720
Speaker 5: There are senitors in the state of Texas who have

404
00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:25,000
Speaker 5: introduced the bill based on you, to change the way

405
00:24:25,080 --> 00:24:27,520
Speaker 5: destructions are given to a death ponem.

406
00:24:27,280 --> 00:24:31,400
Speaker 1: To Jerid, Sven, slumped in his chair, straightens up.

407
00:24:31,840 --> 00:24:37,080
Speaker 5: Really, you have no idea what sort of impact you had.

408
00:24:37,480 --> 00:24:40,640
Speaker 3: I don't know anything about that.

409
00:24:40,680 --> 00:24:42,040
Speaker 5: You were very instrumental.

410
00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:45,840
Speaker 6: This is I'm shocked.

411
00:24:47,160 --> 00:24:49,200
Speaker 1: While his eyes have tended to dart around the room,

412
00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:52,439
Speaker 1: looking at me or down at his hands, right now,

413
00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:56,000
Speaker 1: Sven is looking directly at Marylyn. She tells him that

414
00:24:56,000 --> 00:24:58,479
Speaker 1: had he in fact voted against the death penalty at

415
00:24:58,480 --> 00:25:02,200
Speaker 1: her son's trial, these attempts at reform might never have happened.

416
00:25:02,800 --> 00:25:05,240
Speaker 5: I'm a firm believer of the things happened for a reason,

417
00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:09,119
Speaker 5: because this is not just about my son. It's about

418
00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:12,240
Speaker 5: other mothers sons that are on death row as well.

419
00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:15,879
Speaker 5: So if this can help any other case, you know,

420
00:25:16,040 --> 00:25:22,040
Speaker 5: outside of polls, then we've served that purpose. You came forward,

421
00:25:22,600 --> 00:25:24,520
Speaker 5: so I look at you as my hero.

422
00:25:26,160 --> 00:25:30,120
Speaker 1: Then physically shrinks from the word hero. It's as though

423
00:25:30,160 --> 00:25:32,680
Speaker 1: she's placed a large, awkward crown atop his head.

424
00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:39,000
Speaker 3: Wow, that's not the way i'd considered myself for my

425
00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:40,199
Speaker 3: actions in any way.

426
00:25:40,800 --> 00:25:41,679
Speaker 2: I don't feel.

427
00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:46,760
Speaker 5: That's to me. You are so you know it means

428
00:25:46,800 --> 00:25:47,120
Speaker 5: a lot.

429
00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:52,879
Speaker 6: That's a lot to process. I I had no idea

430
00:25:53,320 --> 00:25:55,040
Speaker 6: you didn't know any of this. No.

431
00:25:55,240 --> 00:25:56,240
Speaker 2: Oh, the articles.

432
00:25:57,400 --> 00:26:02,040
Speaker 5: There's a really good one in the Texas Tribute. It's

433
00:26:02,119 --> 00:26:07,200
Speaker 5: one of the ones. I actually printed it out for you,

434
00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:10,560
Speaker 5: but I waste Coca Cola on it, so I didn't

435
00:26:10,560 --> 00:26:13,159
Speaker 5: want to give you an article that was uh, but

436
00:26:13,240 --> 00:26:14,120
Speaker 5: you should look it up.

437
00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:16,800
Speaker 2: Oh, this blows my mind.

438
00:26:17,280 --> 00:26:20,200
Speaker 5: I need to send you some articles here because it's

439
00:26:20,200 --> 00:26:21,120
Speaker 5: definitely movement.

440
00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:22,240
Speaker 2: It's definitely movement.

441
00:26:23,240 --> 00:26:33,360
Speaker 3: Well, I'm sorry, I'm a little at loss for words. Yeah,

442
00:26:33,440 --> 00:26:35,159
Speaker 3: but walking in here, I didn't I didn't know what

443
00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:41,320
Speaker 3: to expect, and I was a little nervous. I do

444
00:26:41,359 --> 00:26:45,240
Speaker 3: feel even just now a little bit of weight taking

445
00:26:45,280 --> 00:26:46,200
Speaker 3: off my shoulders.

446
00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:54,000
Speaker 2: This helps, This helps so much, Oh, this helps so much.

447
00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:03,560
Speaker 1: After all these years, Sven is finally able to accept

448
00:27:03,560 --> 00:27:07,560
Speaker 1: Marylyn's forgiveness, even if he still isn't ready to forgive himself.

449
00:27:09,760 --> 00:27:12,840
Speaker 3: It choos me up today that I didn't express a

450
00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:18,000
Speaker 3: dissenting opinion. I should have spoken up at least. I mean,

451
00:27:18,119 --> 00:27:19,960
Speaker 3: I didn't think he would be a danger too with

452
00:27:20,040 --> 00:27:21,000
Speaker 3: the prison community.

453
00:27:22,280 --> 00:27:24,200
Speaker 2: I didn't see a hardened criminal there.

454
00:27:24,760 --> 00:27:28,480
Speaker 3: I got the impression of sort of a kid who

455
00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:31,560
Speaker 3: was in a situation he didn't know how to handle.

456
00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:36,159
Speaker 3: I saw someone who made a terrible mistake and someone

457
00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:37,879
Speaker 3: I did not believe would do it again.

458
00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:42,600
Speaker 1: As Benn speaks, Marylynd's eyes well up now.

459
00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:45,399
Speaker 5: I kept looking at the jurors and I was like,

460
00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:48,320
Speaker 5: you know, it has to be somebody owned there that

461
00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:51,240
Speaker 5: feels and dick and see through all of this, that

462
00:27:51,359 --> 00:27:54,199
Speaker 5: the prosecutor that's presenting in everything to know that my

463
00:27:54,280 --> 00:27:55,399
Speaker 5: son is not a monster.

464
00:27:55,720 --> 00:27:58,840
Speaker 6: No, no, never, I never saw Paul as a monster.

465
00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:03,080
Speaker 1: After the crime. Marilyn's family never saw her son the

466
00:28:03,080 --> 00:28:06,240
Speaker 1: same way again. From that moment on, he was nothing

467
00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:08,639
Speaker 1: more than a murderer, and on the final day of

468
00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:12,679
Speaker 1: the trial, twelve jurors confirmed that judgment. Her hope had

469
00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:15,960
Speaker 1: been that maybe someone had seen something else. It wasn't

470
00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:18,360
Speaker 1: a hope for someone to recognize in her son anything

471
00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:21,760
Speaker 1: special or good. She just wanted them to see him

472
00:28:21,760 --> 00:28:23,159
Speaker 1: as something other than a monster.

473
00:28:24,119 --> 00:28:26,840
Speaker 6: I thank you God, I appreciate that s the trial,

474
00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:27,960
Speaker 6: I never saw that once.

475
00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:31,880
Speaker 1: Paul's story is still on death row and Sven still

476
00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:35,160
Speaker 1: can't reverse the sentence. But in speaking aloud the words

477
00:28:35,160 --> 00:28:38,680
Speaker 1: that Marilyn's been repeating to herself for so long, Sven's

478
00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:40,720
Speaker 1: made her feel less alone.

479
00:28:41,080 --> 00:28:48,520
Speaker 5: You have some of the hurt that I have carried

480
00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:51,240
Speaker 5: on my heart for the last twelve years. You just

481
00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:51,840
Speaker 5: lived in it.

482
00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:55,000
Speaker 2: You have no earthly idea what.

483
00:28:54,840 --> 00:29:01,719
Speaker 5: That meant to me. It's meant a lot, and for

484
00:29:01,800 --> 00:29:08,920
Speaker 5: you to say that it is it, it's.

485
00:29:11,120 --> 00:29:12,480
Speaker 2: It really is my heart.

486
00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:24,720
Speaker 1: After years of worry over what to say to Marylyn,

487
00:29:25,360 --> 00:29:27,000
Speaker 1: Sven's finally found the right words.

488
00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:27,840
Speaker 2: I'm sorry.

489
00:29:27,840 --> 00:29:30,520
Speaker 6: I never wrote back, that's okay, I totally understood.

490
00:29:31,720 --> 00:29:32,280
Speaker 2: It's a lot.

491
00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:40,800
Speaker 1: Since then and Maryland's meeting, a judge made an official

492
00:29:40,840 --> 00:29:45,040
Speaker 1: recommendation that, based on Glenn and Judith Cherry's testimony, Paul's

493
00:29:45,040 --> 00:29:48,080
Speaker 1: story sentence be changed to life in prison without parole,

494
00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:51,160
Speaker 1: though the Court of Criminal Appeals still has to make

495
00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:55,480
Speaker 1: a final ruling. Stories lawyers are hopeful, and so is Marilyn.

496
00:29:56,520 --> 00:30:00,520
Speaker 1: As for Sven, After finally responding to Marylyn decided to

497
00:30:00,520 --> 00:30:04,240
Speaker 1: send a letter of apology to Paul's story. I couldn't

498
00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:06,120
Speaker 1: find the strength to speak up in the jury room,

499
00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:08,959
Speaker 1: he wrote, and that is a mistake I will carry forever.

500
00:30:11,720 --> 00:30:13,360
Speaker 1: Sven has yet to hear anything back.

501
00:30:49,920 --> 00:30:59,440
Speaker 4: Now that the Fernitures returning to its goodwill home, now

502
00:30:59,480 --> 00:31:04,320
Speaker 4: that the last month's rand is scheming with the damage

503
00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:05,920
Speaker 4: to take.

504
00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:11,560
Speaker 2: This moment to save if we imagine, if.

505
00:31:11,440 --> 00:31:16,200
Speaker 4: We too felt far.

506
00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:20,600
Speaker 2: From things accident.

507
00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:29,120
Speaker 1: Heavyweight is hosted and produced by me Jonathan Goldstein, along

508
00:31:29,120 --> 00:31:32,280
Speaker 1: with Stevie Lane, Peter Bresnan, and Khalila Holt. The show

509
00:31:32,320 --> 00:31:35,760
Speaker 1: is edited by Jorge Just, with additional editing by Alex Bloomberg.

510
00:31:36,040 --> 00:31:39,600
Speaker 1: Special thanks to Emily Condon, Emmanuel Barry, Caitlin Kenny, John,

511
00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:43,960
Speaker 1: Michael Tuttlegates, Amanda Marzulo, Mike Ware, Emily Follis, Brian Reed,

512
00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:47,560
Speaker 1: Sean Cole, Diane Wu, Christopher Swetala, Ira Glass and the

513
00:31:47,560 --> 00:31:52,040
Speaker 1: rest of our friends at This American Life and Jackie Cohen.

514
00:31:52,960 --> 00:31:55,320
Speaker 1: A very special thanks to Maurice Shamas. If you want

515
00:31:55,320 --> 00:31:57,760
Speaker 1: to read the original article that Maurice reported with Spen,

516
00:31:58,080 --> 00:32:00,840
Speaker 1: we're including a link to it on our website. Bobby

517
00:32:00,880 --> 00:32:04,000
Speaker 1: Lord mixed the episode with music by Christine Fellows, John K. Sampson,

518
00:32:04,080 --> 00:32:07,680
Speaker 1: Michael Hurst, Blue Dot Sessions, and Bobby Lord. Additional music

519
00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:10,440
Speaker 1: credits can be found on our website, Gimbletmedia dot com

520
00:32:10,480 --> 00:32:13,280
Speaker 1: slash Heavyweight. Our theme song is by The Weaker Thans

521
00:32:13,280 --> 00:32:15,800
Speaker 1: courtesy of Epitaph Records, and our ad music is by

522
00:32:15,800 --> 00:32:19,120
Speaker 1: Hailey Shaw. Follow us on Twitter at Heavyweight or email

523
00:32:19,200 --> 00:32:22,040
Speaker 1: us at Heavyweight at gimletmedia dot com. We'll have a

524
00:32:22,080 --> 00:32:26,320
Speaker 1: special episode next week, special because it was recorded in

525
00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:37,000
Speaker 1: front of a live studio audience. We'll see you then,