Speaker 1: Of the law and order franchises, SVU is considered especially watchable.
Speaker 2: We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the
Speaker 2: vicious felonies. These episodes are based on. These are our stories, Done.
Speaker 1: Done Happy twenty twenty three. Everybody, It's That's Messed Up
Speaker 1: an SVU podcast And I'm Kara Klank and I'm Liza Traeger.
Speaker 2: Hello. This is a podcast where we talk about SVU,
Speaker 2: the true crimes that are based on We have celebrity
Speaker 2: guests and up top we chit chat a little bit.
Speaker 2: We catch up, even though truly we've been spending eight
Speaker 2: hundred hours together constantly because we're in the time machine.
Speaker 2: I think, well, by the time this episode comes out,
Speaker 2: we will have missed each other because I have been
Speaker 2: out of town for a couple of weeks. You know,
Speaker 2: you're doing stuff, but.
Speaker 1: At this point we're really These are kind of super
Speaker 1: time machine episodes.
Speaker 2: Just because of the holidays.
Speaker 1: You know, we got to let all of our babies
Speaker 1: at exactly right take a little break ski and we
Speaker 1: need a break. So you know, it's before holidays for
Speaker 1: us right now, but it'll be post holidays. It'll be
Speaker 1: the brand new year when this comes out. Actually this
Speaker 1: comes out of my sister's birthday. She does not listen
Speaker 1: to the podcast, but happy birthday, Sis, and I'm sis.
Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe some of you are thinking about your New
Speaker 2: Year's resolutions. Probably not. That's like so well, no, we're
Speaker 2: just trying to survive at this point. I don't know,
Speaker 2: Like what am I going to say? Am I going
Speaker 2: to really say the same thing again over for the
Speaker 2: tenth year in a row, Like it's done. I'm not
Speaker 2: going to clean my room. I like I have been
Speaker 2: nicer to my parents that I remember. That was one
Speaker 2: off for a few years ago. Yeah, that I had
Speaker 2: to stop yelling at my parents all the time. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I don't really have any resolutions.
Speaker 1: I would like to start to try to work out
Speaker 1: a little bit, but I don't know if I have
Speaker 1: it in me.
Speaker 2: Purnologists, rip me a new one. She goes, you better
Speaker 2: be out there, you need to walk, You need to
Speaker 2: get your life together, as she was pissed at me.
Speaker 2: My Undokrenologists rip me a new one? Is that merch?
Speaker 2: It was just like, yeah, I would like to get
Speaker 2: my life sorted. It's just like what am I going
Speaker 2: to chew on a broccoli stock? I don't know. I mean,
Speaker 2: I've done it before, I'll do it again. Who cares?
Speaker 1: Well, one of your resolutions if you're listening, should be
Speaker 1: to see us live. I'm just gonna do my quick
Speaker 1: business update. Here we are it is. It is early January.
Speaker 1: We will be in Indianapolis on January twelfth, and then
Speaker 1: we will be in Philadelphia on the nineteenth. New York
Speaker 1: is sold out on the twentieth, but who knows, maybe
Speaker 1: you can find some tickets somewhere. And then the twenty
Speaker 1: first two shows in Boston. There are still tickets available
Speaker 1: for the four pm show in Boston, and then Hartford,
Speaker 1: my old college stomping grounds.
Speaker 2: I'll be there on the twenty second.
Speaker 1: So that is going to conclude our fall winter tour
Speaker 1: of twenty twenty two to twenty three. So these are
Speaker 1: your last chances to see us until we two we
Speaker 1: go to Vancouver, Vancouver for Just for Labs. If you
Speaker 1: live in Western Canada or anywhere near Vancouver, we will
Speaker 1: be there for a great festival. You should really make
Speaker 1: a weekend of it. Go see some comedy. We'll be
Speaker 1: doing stand up as well at that and get yourself
Speaker 1: some of our merch if you'd like, speaking of is
Speaker 1: that merch? We've got this beanie that is so funny
Speaker 1: because it says is that merch on it? And also
Speaker 1: that's messed up? And then it's a great sweatshirt. Lisa's
Speaker 1: modeling it right now. We will be posting photos of
Speaker 1: ourselves wearing the merch. We just got our own pieces.
Speaker 1: There's also a fanny pack that's super cute.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we haven't gotten that yet. But I'm wearing the
Speaker 2: sweatshirt now two days in a row, and I'm really
Speaker 2: happy to be wearing it.
Speaker 1: It's very soft. It's very soft. It's totally soft.
Speaker 2: Also, I want to do a quick shout out to
Speaker 2: our Sacramento crowd. Thank you for bringing us chocolate covered
Speaker 2: gummy bears. Oh my god, such a lit crowd. That
Speaker 2: meant the world to us. I even ate the cinnamon bears,
Speaker 2: the white chocolate bears. I love it that you guys
Speaker 2: are so thoughtful with your gifts. We you know it,
Speaker 2: really it's nice, you guys. Listen.
Speaker 1: I mean, somebody knitted me a hat that I've been wearing.
Speaker 1: The little hat. Somebody acknowledged us in the in the
Speaker 1: forward of their book. The book is called Drew Leclair
Speaker 1: gets a clue, and I think it's like a it's
Speaker 1: like a mystery book for like, I think it's like
Speaker 1: a teen situation. Like it's like, you know, it's it's
Speaker 1: it's more than two hundred pages. So it's not for
Speaker 1: like a little kid. It's for you know, a kid
Speaker 1: that wants to bust through a mystery.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just really it's sometimes it's hard to be
Speaker 2: in the time machine. Even though we all everyone deserves
Speaker 2: a little holiday break and I hope you all get
Speaker 2: one as well. But not only is care of ruining
Speaker 2: my life by not being caught up to White Lotus.
Speaker 2: We now have to wait weeks like you guys won't
Speaker 2: hear us recap White Lotus for like another Oh mon.
Speaker 1: You know we have to talk about we have to
Speaker 1: talk about the final episode of Rawlins. I mean we
Speaker 1: haven't talked about that yet. Oh my god, yeah we okay,
Speaker 1: so sorry, this happened a month ago, but we're in
Speaker 1: the time machine.
Speaker 2: This is my thing. I thought the Little Caper crime
Speaker 2: is so silly. I was just like, they're investigating in
Speaker 2: a town they have no jurisdiction on there, with no backup.
Speaker 1: In their own little crime silly, like a spoiler alerts,
Speaker 1: I guess if you don't want to get spoiled on
Speaker 1: this weird episode. But like Live and Rowin spend hours
Speaker 1: getting a man drunk to bring him back to the
Speaker 1: hotel and then just arrest him, like I don't understand, Like.
Speaker 2: It's like their last hurrah, but Robins hasn't even confessed
Speaker 2: to Benson that she's leaving, and it it is just so.
Speaker 1: But I loved their time together, so it really is,
Speaker 1: But I like it. They were looking for an excuse
Speaker 1: to get those two in a motel together drinking boxed wine.
Speaker 1: Then they did it, but the caper with the hidden
Speaker 1: cameras seemed so far fetched and crazy. I also was
Speaker 1: like not crazy about this Noah's half brother story, but
Speaker 1: you know that I don't care about Noah storylines, Like
Speaker 1: I can't believe this is the first time this is
Speaker 1: like coming up, Like wouldn't there be records that he
Speaker 1: has family nearby like before his adoption. I don't know,
Speaker 1: it's really and the family being so picture perfect was
Speaker 1: like annoying me.
Speaker 2: Well, I was just scared that the brother was gonna
Speaker 2: molest him, Like I'm just glad everything's you know, hunky Dory, Like, yeah,
Speaker 2: I was just on the edge of my steeving, like
Speaker 2: is someone gonna touch Noah, I cannot handle this, and
Speaker 2: so I'm glad he just got like a PlayStation and
Speaker 2: a nice dinner and they're sweet and this might be live.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: I liked tear up thinking about it, but I loved
Speaker 2: Rollins getting drunk. Also, could she have not afforded one Hilton?
Speaker 2: There's not one days in she had to be in
Speaker 2: this motel.
Speaker 1: It felt like they were at a very like like
Speaker 1: a psych area, and she wanted to like be closer
Speaker 1: to the where the family was. I don't know that,
Speaker 1: And like we haven't seen like Olivia Benson walking out.
Speaker 2: Of a shower and a towel before.
Speaker 1: Like that was a lot of skin for old Rishka
Speaker 1: And then all they say old, Oh, I don't mean
Speaker 1: old like that.
Speaker 2: I know, I know, I mean, oh Ellie old, our
Speaker 2: old buddy.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but like yeah, I was just surprised, Like even
Speaker 1: young her, we never saw her like getting out and
Speaker 1: like I just kind of loved that. Now she's like
Speaker 1: in her fifties and she's like, fuck it, put me
Speaker 1: in a towel and I'm wet, let's do it like well.
Speaker 2: I also loved that she was down for her nudes
Speaker 2: to be released. She was like, you know what, we
Speaker 2: have victims to reveal a lot, Like I don't care,
Speaker 2: you can send my news. I bet she knew she
Speaker 2: looked good. Yeah, no, I love them getting drunk. I
Speaker 2: you know, I'm glad this all happened because if she
Speaker 2: had stayed in the house with Noah, there couldn't have
Speaker 2: been this drunk thing. But like, I think in reality,
Speaker 2: she would have stayed in the guest room. Like I
Speaker 2: really don't think she would have left.
Speaker 1: She would not have left her kids with a family
Speaker 1: that she just met, Like you don't know what the
Speaker 1: dad's deal is, Like you don't know anything, Like I
Speaker 1: don't think she knowing everything she knows, especially with the
Speaker 1: grand people.
Speaker 2: But yeah, but we all thought Brooke Shields was good.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but that took a long time for her to
Speaker 1: let brook Shields in. I know, it wasn't first night
Speaker 1: go have a fucking sleepover with Grandma Sheila.
Speaker 2: No. So I don't know.
Speaker 1: I think it's because Noah's always just like putting her
Speaker 1: on the spot and is like, I don't know, you know,
Speaker 1: I'm not a fan, but anyway.
Speaker 2: But I just hope it's good. I just hope that
Speaker 2: she's able to like I mean, it's stung when Noah goes,
Speaker 2: this is the closest I have to family, or like
Speaker 2: this is a real this is my real family. She
Speaker 2: said something like that, and it's like, yeah, you self
Speaker 2: centered little bitch, like your mom is your fucking family. No,
Speaker 2: I just want her to have this family and integrate
Speaker 2: it with her work family and meet someone like I want.
Speaker 1: You know what we're talking. This episode was wild too.
Speaker 1: I feel like we hadn't heard so much confess confession
Speaker 1: about how she We've never really heard her say. For
Speaker 1: all you'll say about the long looks off into the
Speaker 1: distance and whatever that we've seen, we've never really heard
Speaker 1: her come out and say that she's interested in him
Speaker 1: that way.
Speaker 2: No, And what I wanted to like, I just the
Speaker 2: postponing joy like tell you know, I'm guilty of it
Speaker 2: where you give people great advice and you never follow it.
Speaker 2: And I just felt in that moment, I just love
Speaker 2: Rollin's being like you do the same girl, Like, yeah,
Speaker 2: stop waiting for something to enjoy your life. Yeah, it's
Speaker 2: like shit, Ter get off the pot.
Speaker 1: Like it's like get together with him or fucking get
Speaker 1: on e harmony or something. But let's do something else,
Speaker 1: you know, I know, Benson on Riya, Benson on Riya.
Speaker 2: Do you think they let an SVU detectives on Riya? Oh?
Speaker 1: My god, A captain. I bet a captain, I bet
Speaker 1: a captain.
Speaker 2: I'm sorry that was insulting. I didn't mean to insult
Speaker 2: our queen. But anyway, Also, I do want to mention
Speaker 2: the wedding. I love that it was pre credits like
Speaker 2: that really made me happy, because we anticipating something you
Speaker 2: know is gonna happen is annoying. So I love that
Speaker 2: it was just like a great surprise right away, you know,
Speaker 2: with the people who really love them and know them
Speaker 2: so deeply.
Speaker 1: And I'm like really not horny for Careesi at all,
Speaker 1: but I did think that was such a we mourning
Speaker 1: with like them in the bed and then like they're
Speaker 1: girls coming in.
Speaker 2: It's like they're a cute family. You know. What's another
Speaker 2: thing I didn't even think of. It's like Rollins does
Speaker 2: have to get off the force. If Rollins dies, what
Speaker 2: happens to her?
Speaker 1: Girls cares better adopt their asses because what happens to them,
Speaker 1: they have different fathers.
Speaker 2: We don't know what their relationships is with their fathers.
Speaker 1: What are they gonna go to her crazy ass mom
Speaker 1: down in Georgia or to Kim Rollins, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean? Like, she's got to figure out a plan
Speaker 1: for those girls.
Speaker 2: Honey, she Yeah, she's gonna have more time. What are
Speaker 2: a professor? What teaches two times a week? Like she'll
Speaker 2: have times if Carisy would have adopted these girls four
Speaker 2: years ago before they were born. Yes, but I'm just saying.
Speaker 1: I see why she doesn't want to put herself in
Speaker 1: harms way all the time. She doesn't exactly have a
Speaker 1: plan set up for these gals if something happens to her.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and she deserves to chill out. I mean, so
Speaker 2: does Benson with all the trauma they have. But I
Speaker 2: loved that and I'm sorry, And this always happens to
Speaker 2: the new people. So it's like, but I'm not these
Speaker 2: You're not feeling muncy. No, it's like cartoonish and not grounded.
Speaker 2: Her performance is not grounded to me, And maybe I'm
Speaker 2: acting like two cocks. Well I got booked in one
Speaker 2: show and now I'm gonna judge. Everyone's acting, but like
Speaker 2: I I don't like her little lie. I just don't.
Speaker 2: I'm not buying it. And it's like, you know, this
Speaker 2: case is important, we have to put Elias in jail,
Speaker 2: and you flip out on the stands.
Speaker 1: We don't need another best stable. If anything, what's the
Speaker 1: coaching for. What's all the coaching for? If you just
Speaker 1: literally it took barely anything to get you, like, she.
Speaker 2: Just doesn't astran And it's like, now we're gonna have
Speaker 2: to watch these two knuckleheads.
Speaker 1: Flirt for I'm sorry, he is cute, but he does
Speaker 1: absolutely nothing for me. This Taviano man, he does nothing
Speaker 1: for me. So if she's not grounded, he's literally like
Speaker 1: dragging his body.
Speaker 2: On the floor. It's like so like so I'm like bored.
Speaker 2: He's always like, uh, what happened? Like I don't know.
Speaker 2: I just like don't. Yeah, he's like a kid in detention. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's like, not up your an, Sucktavio.
Speaker 1: But we've been begging for more humor and they give
Speaker 1: us Monthsy with her jokes and they're not really doing it.
Speaker 1: They're not It's just those are munch size shoes to fill.
Speaker 1: And I'm not really getting it. So I don't know
Speaker 1: what we gotta do.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we gotta do. There's growth. I'm sure there's a
Speaker 2: learning curve. We'll see what happens. I'm in you know,
Speaker 2: I'm invested. We both are. Will never stop. Yeah, view
Speaker 2: till we die.
Speaker 1: I'll be watching you when I'm sixty five with my grandchildren.
Speaker 1: Noah's the new captain. Let's start, let's start, let's start.
Speaker 1: We have a great episode for you guys today. Don't
Speaker 1: go anywhow.
Speaker 2: All right, We're doing episode Persona, season ten, episode eight,
Speaker 2: and it says it came out November twenty fifth, and
Speaker 2: so this is the day before Thanksgiving. I'm assuming and
Speaker 2: this is a horrific start to the Thanksgiving holiday. I'll
Speaker 2: say that.
Speaker 1: This episode is it's a tough ye, but I would
Speaker 1: say haunting one, most haunting. Yeah, so we opened strong.
Speaker 1: No long walk in the park or a bickering couple.
Speaker 1: It's straight up Clea Duval. She looks stressed. She is
Speaker 1: my queen. I've loved her for decades.
Speaker 2: I feel like she created the asymmetrical Bob before anybody
Speaker 2: else in the game. Posh thinks it's her, but it's not.
Speaker 2: It's clear. Maybe it's clear from the faculty, but I'm
Speaker 2: a cheerleader and you know, uh, we'll vat more currently
Speaker 2: but then Happiest Season the lesbian Christmas movie she wrote
Speaker 2: and directed that so fun, creative, amazing. But here she's
Speaker 2: a conservative, rich looking lady. There's a pussy bow white shirt,
Speaker 2: a sweater you love that I do, and she's asking
Speaker 2: the pharmacist for a morning after pill, which should be
Speaker 2: an easy transaction. It should be like, hello, mister pharmacist,
Speaker 2: can I have this? And then the pharmacist goes, of
Speaker 2: course you can. But this bitch is an anti choice
Speaker 2: Karen and I don't even know how she passed pills school. Okay,
Speaker 2: she doesn't want to give it to her, and Clia
Speaker 2: is like, bitch, I don't need to see a doctor,
Speaker 2: just give it to me. And the nerve of this
Speaker 2: woman suggests an adoption that is outside your scope of
Speaker 2: your job. You feck him, like these people should be fired.
Speaker 2: I don't understand how, like personal biases do not get
Speaker 2: you fired in a medical profession, right, you shouldn't have
Speaker 2: opinions at all, not.
Speaker 1: Bible based opinions, science based, science based opinions, fact based,
Speaker 1: well that's.
Speaker 2: What I mean. If you have any sort of personal
Speaker 2: leanings where you're not doing things that are fully legal
Speaker 2: to do, you should not be a medical professional. You
Speaker 2: just shouldn't. That should be a rule. Motherfuckers. Clea loses
Speaker 2: it though, and she screams at this woman, and you know,
Speaker 2: she seems and then the pharmacist is like shock, she's
Speaker 2: being yelled at, and it's like, well, fuck around and
Speaker 2: find out. Have you never heard of that? So she
Speaker 2: grabs her and pleads like I need it. I can't
Speaker 2: have his baby, and she, oh my god, if you're
Speaker 2: not already so furious, she goes, well you shouldn't have,
Speaker 2: Like I'm getting to your pants, and then a security
Speaker 2: guard who is no less than seventy eight years old
Speaker 2: grabs Clia and throws her into the glasses spinny display.
Speaker 2: I just like, I can't even believe this.
Speaker 1: Which is like where my mom exclusively bought her glasses
Speaker 1: for years, four years on the spinny display at the pharmacy.
Speaker 2: And Clia is like, don't do this, like you don't
Speaker 2: understand I was raped. So then it cuts to Benson
Speaker 2: and Stabler pushing the door into the pharmacy breakroom where
Speaker 2: they're holding Clia's character Mia, so we'll call her Mia
Speaker 2: from now on. And Stabler's pissed. He's like, you cuffed
Speaker 2: a rape victim. And the security guard's like, she caused
Speaker 2: a disturbance. It's policy and obviously a Stabler's like unhooker,
Speaker 2: and then the pharmacist is like, she assaulted me. I
Speaker 2: want to press charges. In your fucking dreams. They don't
Speaker 2: respect her at all, and they run out. They're like, yeah,
Speaker 2: hold your breath, bitch, and then they rush out with
Speaker 2: her to take her to the hospital, and it's the credits,
Speaker 2: so a really action packed in raging cold open and
Speaker 2: we're back and wildly.
Speaker 1: Frenchie from Greece is the nurse. I think she's in
Speaker 1: more than one episode.
Speaker 2: I don't know. I did search. Hold on. Let me
Speaker 2: let me look, cause I remember being like, oh, Deed Cohn, yeah,
Speaker 2: oh three episodes.
Speaker 1: You're right, yeah, Like I've seen her before because I
Speaker 1: remember every time I go, oh my god, it's Frenchie,
Speaker 1: you know.
Speaker 2: Authority per So that's the Robin Williams one and oh
Speaker 2: my god, she's in Great ones. So she's in Robin Williams,
Speaker 2: she's in this one and then she's in Behave with
Speaker 2: Jennifer Love hewittt Wow, three classics. I would say, ah,
Speaker 2: that's yeah, season's nine, ten, and twelve, so that's cool.
Speaker 2: But it's just like shocking that it's her, Like I
Speaker 2: had to take eight double takes. I would say, to
Speaker 2: see a person from Greece thrilling. So she's filling Olivia
Speaker 2: in and shows photos of the victim's body and it's
Speaker 2: horrific bruising. I've never seen bruising like this on this show,
Speaker 2: Like it is deep, intense and all over her body.
Speaker 2: And then they should talk the pharmacist as well, so
Speaker 2: she's like, please find him fast, I don't want to
Speaker 2: see any more of his handiwork, and lets them know
Speaker 2: that Mia is down to talk, so they go to
Speaker 2: chat with Miam. So she says it was getting light,
Speaker 2: so she went out for bagels when a man grabbed
Speaker 2: her from behind and her eyes are closed as she's talking,
Speaker 2: and she says that he had a knife and if
Speaker 2: she screamed, he would slit her throat and then dragged
Speaker 2: her into an alley, knocked her down and like punched
Speaker 2: her and kicked her, and the next thing she knows,
Speaker 2: she like wakes up and he was on top of her.
Speaker 2: She says he was white, tall and big and not
Speaker 2: really detailed account and she says her husband and her
Speaker 2: are trying to get pregnant, so she knows that she's ovulating,
Speaker 2: so she saw the pharmacy and ran in. And it
Speaker 2: should have been like a simple fucking transaction. Like I
Speaker 2: don't understand when people think, Like I just hate when
Speaker 2: people's like it's like the philosophical debates and like your
Speaker 2: beliefs are outside of what is actually really happening, Like, yeah,
Speaker 2: no one cares about what you're pondering or like any debate.
Speaker 2: This woman was just a tack and then you're making
Speaker 2: it more and more worse. It's like it really stickens me. Yeah.
Speaker 2: So we cut to a pretty day in New York
Speaker 2: and o'haloran's meeting Benson and Stabler in the alley. And
Speaker 2: the issue is there's a bunch of motor oil leaked
Speaker 2: all over but so and there's no evidence of an attack,
Speaker 2: and she would have been dirty, she would have had
Speaker 2: oil all over her clothes. So sadly she's been caught
Speaker 2: in this lie, but clearly she's been abused and was raped.
Speaker 2: So it hits them finally that the bruises were all
Speaker 2: hidden by clothing, which means this is a classic DV case.
Speaker 2: Fuck the purpose her husband. So they go to me
Speaker 2: as home. She answers and says it's not a good time,
Speaker 2: but her husband's not home yet, but he's gonna come
Speaker 2: home from Warkstone. They're like, we know you lied, and
Speaker 2: then at that moment, her husband walks out of the
Speaker 2: cab with flowers. Classic abuser what is it not territ behavior?
Speaker 2: Classic abuser behavior. He does not like Stable and Benson
Speaker 2: and is like, hey, honey, you're gonna introduce me to
Speaker 2: your friends, and they handle it. They're like, hey, we're
Speaker 2: just like investigating a string of burglaries the neighborhood, and
Speaker 2: he goes, don't worry, we have tons of guns.
Speaker 1: We're safe. So not good. Oh my god, this man
Speaker 1: is a full nightmare. Oh yeah.
Speaker 2: He kisses her cheek hello and gives her flowers, and
Speaker 2: he asks her for dinner because he's starved, and she's like, well,
Speaker 2: I wasn't expecting you till six, and she is clearly scared.
Speaker 2: Acting is so good, and he is pissed that dinner
Speaker 2: is not ready and it's like, but if you came
Speaker 2: home at six and then the dinner was cold, you'd
Speaker 2: be pissed too, Like, what is happening? I mean, I
Speaker 2: don't think it's about the dinner. This is an abusive
Speaker 2: it's not about the pasta. But yes, yeah, just like
Speaker 2: you're the one who decided to switch up your schedule, sir.
Speaker 2: The detectives leave and are like, we got to do
Speaker 2: something about this. But she's on a tight leash and
Speaker 2: might not like talk and we can't touch him because
Speaker 2: he's never she's not gonna speak at but they have
Speaker 2: to do something because he's going to use her for
Speaker 2: target practice. They say, if we don't help, so maybe
Speaker 2: there's another way. Of course there is. So they head
Speaker 2: down to the basement apartment, where they're greeted by a
Speaker 2: happy grain man who's super pumped to see them, and
Speaker 2: he's like, oh, fuck yeah, I'm a huge crime buff.
Speaker 2: I think we got to post that on the Insta
Speaker 2: and with the caption on because yeah, this man in
Speaker 2: a wheelchair who's like, fuck yeah, give me the deaths. Yeah.
Speaker 2: And then he's like Lenny, you know, and he calls
Speaker 2: for this you know, someone named Lenny. And then he
Speaker 2: says if his apartment wasn't in the basement, he would
Speaker 2: be spying on everybody, like rear window, and it's like,
Speaker 2: do you like crime or are you a freak? Like,
Speaker 2: we don't, I don't know.
Speaker 1: Well, actually, my friend, my friend Rachel, who you know,
Speaker 1: has a cool apartment and it's like across the street
Speaker 1: from an old hospital that is now apartments, and she
Speaker 1: has opera glasses and she just kind of checks out
Speaker 1: what people do. She's not like, she doesn't like, I
Speaker 1: don't think, you know, get too deep into it. But
Speaker 1: she's like, yeah, you see ladies taking off their bras
Speaker 1: at the end of the night, you know, the end
Speaker 1: of the day, like a lot of just New York behavior.
Speaker 1: It is kind of fun to be like a little voyeur.
Speaker 1: I don't think she's doing it in a creepy way,
Speaker 1: but maybe it is.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I also do think people are taking off
Speaker 2: their bras outside of New York or you mean Rachel's
Speaker 2: behaviors New York people. Yes, yes, thought it was the
Speaker 2: bra taking off And I was like, no, I don't know,
Speaker 2: this might be a bodega incident. Everyone might be so.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Like also, I used to get changed in front
Speaker 1: of my open window all the time because I don't care.
Speaker 2: But like, if you care, you should get blind. Right. Wait,
Speaker 2: have you seen this? It's like a meme text whatever.
Speaker 2: So someone texts this woman is like, hey, it's your neighbor.
Speaker 2: Just want to let you know that me and my
Speaker 2: husband can see you topless smoking a bong. And the
Speaker 2: response from the woman was, do I look cool?
Speaker 1: I haven't seen that, but that's the best. That's the
Speaker 1: best response I've ever heard.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've it's one of you. Take a picture. I
Speaker 2: would love to see it from your angle. Thank you.
Speaker 2: It's a pet peeve when like women expect other women
Speaker 2: to act differently because their husband's or boyfriend friends are around.
Speaker 2: It's like, that's your problem. I use your fault.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think I've talked to you about how I
Speaker 1: had an across the alley neighbor in New York who like,
Speaker 1: not the alley because they aren't really alleys, but back
Speaker 1: up building to back of my building who worked for
Speaker 1: the Martha Stewart Show and would leave me letters telling
Speaker 1: me how my TV was huge. And when I tell
Speaker 1: you I had the smallest flat screen of all time, yes.
Speaker 2: The one I have. Yes, it's what I gave Lisa.
Speaker 1: I mean it's not big, you know what I mean, Like,
Speaker 1: and she'd be like, your giant flat screen is glaring
Speaker 1: into my apartment. And I would like write her letters
Speaker 1: back being like get blinds, like I don't know what
Speaker 1: to tell you.
Speaker 2: I'm not gonna not watch TV.
Speaker 1: Like well, but then I realized she was working at
Speaker 1: Martha Stewart and that maybe she was stressed because I've
Speaker 1: heard from a friend that Martha really blamed her for
Speaker 1: a lot of things. Yeah, but I think we started
Speaker 1: this podcast post to my West Hollywood apartment.
Speaker 2: Oh, I had a really wild neighbor who finally was like,
Speaker 2: your TV's so loud and I wasn't even watching TV.
Speaker 2: I was playing I Quiplash on my laptop and so
Speaker 2: I ran out with my laptop and it was all
Speaker 2: caught on this quip Lash show I was doing. But
Speaker 2: I was just like, I'm not allowed to fucking zoom
Speaker 2: with my friends. I mean, it was She's just it
Speaker 2: was great because she would also say like every day,
Speaker 2: like the volume. She's like the volume, and I was like, actually,
Speaker 2: the remote, the batteries have been dead for days and
Speaker 2: I haven't changed them, So the volume hasn't changed at all,
Speaker 2: like you are being caught in lies. You are truly
Speaker 2: just rooting my life. And honestly, I haven't got my revenge.
Speaker 2: And if she still lives there, I'm not opposed to it. Yeah,
Speaker 2: let's go back. Well, my favorite was my two friends
Speaker 2: moved all of my stuff across the country. I paid them,
Speaker 2: of course, but when they unpacked all my stuff, they
Speaker 2: were so tired. I have a photo of them both
Speaker 2: passed down on my couch sleeping watching Seinfeld, and she
Speaker 2: said she called the woman I was subleasing from, saying
Speaker 2: that she had to call the Sheriff's office because I
Speaker 2: was partying so loud, and it was like truly two
Speaker 2: men sleeping on my couch while side club played, and
Speaker 2: I have to some people that's a raging party. I
Speaker 2: guess that's wild.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And then she sicked the other neighbor on my
Speaker 2: floor against me, like she sicks this woman who had
Speaker 2: less going on, and so then it was like, yeah,
Speaker 2: that is it.
Speaker 1: Though they have nothing going on, they're just like I
Speaker 1: gotta complain about something. Like if you sit in silence
Speaker 1: for too long, then you have to focus on like
Speaker 1: what you should be doing, what you need, and she
Speaker 1: was just like every noise was like she had to
Speaker 1: go up like.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I have noises, my guy, Like that's what happens
Speaker 2: in an apartment and if you don't want to hear noises,
Speaker 2: don't live in an apartment building. Yeah, but like yeah,
Speaker 2: and if you can't afford it, it is what it is.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Just like I live in a house and it's
Speaker 1: still like loud motorcycles, dogs barking, people moving their trash
Speaker 1: cab Like there's loud noises. Like if you live in
Speaker 1: a city, even, like you need to move into the
Speaker 1: woods if you want total quiet.
Speaker 2: Sorry, I hear people fucking. I hear my neighbors snoring,
Speaker 2: Like yeah, I don't. I don't understand. That is life. Okay,
Speaker 2: so we're back, We're back to this abuse. Okay. So
Speaker 2: he's so Lenny runs in and he goes and she's
Speaker 2: wearing what my mom would wear, like a colorful apron
Speaker 2: with a little shirt like this is my mother's fashion
Speaker 2: fashion twin they address fully the same. He calls her
Speaker 2: Grace Kelly, and she is not as excited as her
Speaker 2: man about the cops being in her house, and she's like,
Speaker 2: is something wrong? And they they're like, we just have
Speaker 2: some questions about the upstairs neighbor, and Lenny immediately goes
Speaker 2: did something happen to me? And the husband's like, oh,
Speaker 2: that fucking husband and she's like, Jonah, please don't get involved,
Speaker 2: and it's like you just you just actually started the involvement.
Speaker 2: They ask if they've heard anything last night and she
Speaker 2: says no, and he's like, babe, I already have MS,
Speaker 2: like you know, do you have Alzheimer's? Then we're really
Speaker 2: in trouble. And then he says to like to the detectives, yeah,
Speaker 2: there was an unholy ruckus. He keeps spilling the beans
Speaker 2: and she's like, zip it, what if he kicks us out?
Speaker 2: Who's gonna help us? We can't help you, guys, sorry,
Speaker 2: And she's like where else are we going to find
Speaker 2: a rent controlled apartment with wheelchair access? And we would
Speaker 2: have to leave the city and she walks back into
Speaker 2: the kitchen and he apologizes for his woman and says
Speaker 2: she's scared of everything and hasn't left Manhattan in thirty
Speaker 2: years down not even a walk across the bridge. Jeez.
Speaker 2: Benson walks to the back to me the wife while
Speaker 2: the men chat in the front. She's trying to get info.
Speaker 2: I'm pleading on her emotions, like listen, Mia is covered
Speaker 2: in bruises and she's mushing things in a pot and
Speaker 2: the Coli art if the folly artist is really killing
Speaker 2: it right, there's just like meat noises happening. But she
Speaker 2: is just really scared to lose this apartment and doesn't
Speaker 2: want to get involved. And Benson's like there are laws
Speaker 2: to protect tenants, like who will protect Mia? And she
Speaker 2: finally gives in and says Brent is a monster. All
Speaker 2: smiles and good looks, but underneath there's only ice, no heart.
Speaker 2: There's a few seconds where they stand in silence, and
Speaker 2: the next thing we see is Mia coming down to
Speaker 2: the basement apartment like, Lenny, what's up girl, what do
Speaker 2: you need? And she sees Benson and is like no, no, no, no,
Speaker 2: I have to go, and Benson's like please, I want
Speaker 2: to protect you. Please let me help you. She turns
Speaker 2: me out to the mirror and on zips her shirt
Speaker 2: and makes her look at all the bruises in the
Speaker 2: mirror and Lenny's like, oh, poor child, But she's wearing
Speaker 2: like a sexy nighty with all the bruises and it's like,
Speaker 2: so do abusers like like the bruises.
Speaker 1: I know, yeah, probably, I mean they're probably like, this
Speaker 1: is my property.
Speaker 2: I do to it what I do to it. It's
Speaker 2: just confusing to me. But then do they know they're
Speaker 2: doing something wrong when they see the bruises or they're like, hell,
Speaker 2: yeah I did that. Like, I'm it's just I'm curious.
Speaker 1: Sure the psychology of all this, Yeah, I'm sure, it's
Speaker 1: like they disassociate and they think this is this was
Speaker 1: a punishment that was deserved, and so you know, like
Speaker 1: that's this just that's what happens when you get your punishment,
Speaker 1: you know.
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 1: I'm just I'm just literally just all conjecture coming from me.
Speaker 1: But yeah, it's just it's so fun, really hard to watch.
Speaker 2: Yeah. She starts to cry and Benson tells her he's
Speaker 2: not going to change. You have to. She finally confesses
Speaker 2: what really happened to her. He wanted to have sex
Speaker 2: and said let's make a baby, and knew that she
Speaker 2: was ovulating because he tracks it and takes her temperature
Speaker 2: every day, but she doesn't want to have a child
Speaker 2: with him. She told him she wasn't feeling well and
Speaker 2: called her a selfish bitch and then hit her and
Speaker 2: kicked her and then raped her. She apologizes for lying.
Speaker 2: Lenny hugs her and tells Benson, I'll take care of her.
Speaker 2: You go arrest the bastard. They arrest his purple tie
Speaker 2: ass on the stoop and they say he's arrested for rape,
Speaker 2: and he asks where's my wife? And they're like, well,
Speaker 2: that sounds like a confession to us. He says they're
Speaker 2: making a huge mistake and that Mia wouldn't say shit
Speaker 2: against him, But we are in court rape one assault
Speaker 2: to Gray like versus langon Sexy Verse sex ha Langan
Speaker 2: does the approach of how me as a liar. Bail
Speaker 2: said is at fifty grand though, and he's like, great,
Speaker 2: I'll post a SAP and Kim as quick to be like, okay,
Speaker 2: well we still have to protect our girl. So basically
Speaker 2: we get no contact and nos allowed, and he brings
Speaker 2: up the Second Amendment, but Judge Arthur Cohen is like,
Speaker 2: I'll sleep easier knowing you don't have any guns. So
Speaker 2: we cut straight to Mia stressed with Benson like at
Speaker 2: the Upper East Side house and he's like, fuck, I
Speaker 2: can't believe they let him out and Benson's trying to
Speaker 2: reassure her he's not allowed by the house and she's like, yeah,
Speaker 2: if he was, I'd be fucking dead. And Lenny's there too.
Speaker 2: Mia has no family, her parents are dead and she
Speaker 2: was the only child and they only hang out with
Speaker 2: Brent's friends, so they'll never believe her. And he cut
Speaker 2: all her cards. She tried to go to the grocery store.
Speaker 2: No money, so no debit, no credit cards at all. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I think women should be given basic income by the
Speaker 2: government at all times so people can escape. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and I and it increases if you have kids. I
Speaker 2: just feel like that's what I believe.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, if there's so much domestic violence happening, Like, I
Speaker 2: just feel like the government should be just paying women
Speaker 2: into a fund.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Always like make sure you have your own bank account.
Speaker 1: I feel I don't know, I know that that's probably
Speaker 1: impossible in this girl situation, but if you can, I know,
Speaker 1: it seems fun right after you get married, combo everything,
Speaker 1: but it's like have your own resources.
Speaker 2: You never know what's going to happen. No, but this
Speaker 2: is like you know, she goes into it. He's like
Speaker 2: a classic abuser. He knows exactly how to ice sight
Speaker 2: and do all of that. And it starts small, and
Speaker 2: it starts cool where he's like, I don't want you
Speaker 2: to work and she's like, oh cool, hell yeah yeah,
Speaker 2: and then a nightmare ensues. But yeah, so she has
Speaker 2: no money anymore, and Lenny's like, well, maybe you can
Speaker 2: go to a shelter. And then this is my favorite
Speaker 2: line reading of all time. Cleo Duval is just like
Speaker 2: like a homeless person. She's disgusted by this idea. She's like,
Speaker 2: I grew up super poor and now I'm on the
Speaker 2: Upper East Side and I have to go back to
Speaker 2: eating government cheese. And Benson's like, don't worry, you'll get
Speaker 2: a divorce, you'll get money. She goes, no, I signed
Speaker 2: a prenup. She met Brent at eighteen. He made her
Speaker 2: drop out of college and she's fully dependent on him
Speaker 2: and she's never had a job, and Ben's she goes, listen,
Speaker 2: I know this won't be easy, but you'll make a
Speaker 2: new life. Lenny tells a story about a friend of
Speaker 2: hers who escaped a domestic abuse man and now is
Speaker 2: with a man who really really loves her, who'd rather
Speaker 2: die than hurt her, and then she tells me, like,
Speaker 2: you deserve this too, so she packs up, gets her
Speaker 2: ID and papers, and heads off to the shelter. The
Speaker 2: camera pauses on Lenny with the dramatic music for a
Speaker 2: moment as she contemplates. Now we're in a safe house
Speaker 2: in Brooklyn on November fourth, and Benson's listing off all
Speaker 2: the rules and the therapy schedule as Mia wheels her
Speaker 2: stuff in and she is not happy. She's like, I
Speaker 2: like that Brent is free and now I'm in a
Speaker 2: prison and Benson's like, the rules are here to help you,
Speaker 2: and she cuts her off, like I know all about rules, okay,
Speaker 2: Like you don't have to fucking tell me. Brent has
Speaker 2: a ton of them, and before that it was my
Speaker 2: fucking mean dad. She's like, I can't remember a time
Speaker 2: when someone did not tell me what to do. And
Speaker 2: we're at a walk and talk back at the precinct
Speaker 2: with Benson and Stabler chatting about the case. Trevor Langen
Speaker 2: walks right in as Stabler goes Brent's go to prison,
Speaker 2: and he says, I don't think so Mia recanted her
Speaker 2: charges on video, so they're like, well, I bet he
Speaker 2: forced her, and he goes no, she was just guilty.
Speaker 2: She just has a guilty conscience. And I'm just so
Speaker 2: glad that he grew as a character. And because he's
Speaker 2: so hot and you know, with a Marishka, maybe we
Speaker 2: let it slide. But he is a real piece of
Speaker 2: shit for a long time on this show.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he loves calling victims liars, reframing the narrative.
Speaker 2: Like yeah, but I also don't understand how you're so proud,
Speaker 2: like you did see the bruises. I know that's his
Speaker 2: job and he's being I'm assuming paid very well by
Speaker 2: this rich man, but like, you don't think you're wrong,
Speaker 2: Like I just the glee he could have been, Like fuck,
Speaker 2: you know she recanted. This sucks, but like the glee
Speaker 2: that he finds and I hope after you know, he
Speaker 2: lives with guilt for the rest of this character's life,
Speaker 2: this non real person. But I just what a piece
Speaker 2: of shit. Benson starts to rush out like fuck, I
Speaker 2: gotta talk to her, and he's like he's she's at
Speaker 2: home with her husband. Brent opens the door and Hefner's
Speaker 2: style outfit while his wife is making him brunch. She
Speaker 2: wants to check on her as like a wellness check
Speaker 2: and threatens him and like he will be arrested if
Speaker 2: he tries to stop anything, and he is so mad,
Speaker 2: he's seething because he can't hit her, so he has
Speaker 2: to let her in for a wellness check and he
Speaker 2: yells me up, come here, and it's so common, it's
Speaker 2: just like really fucking disgusting, and then he condescendingly and
Speaker 2: quietly to Benson, goes, please. She walks in and says
Speaker 2: everything's fine, and Benson is like, are you sure. Maybe
Speaker 2: a shelter wasn't a good idea, but there's other options,
Speaker 2: and she's like, I want to be home with my husband.
Speaker 2: I made a mistake, Brent forgave me, and now please
Speaker 2: let us get on with our lives. And he says yeah,
Speaker 2: and our breakfast and waves condescendingly. If you can imagine, like,
Speaker 2: I don't know, how do you.
Speaker 1: Describe this wave like a little bait, like the way
Speaker 1: you would wave to a kid.
Speaker 2: Like hi, you know, like bye bye? You know, yeah,
Speaker 2: really not a good wave. And then he goes, oh,
Speaker 2: and tell your partner, like my gun's back. Ugh. Benson
Speaker 2: leaves hesitantly, and you know she's not gonna leave, so
Speaker 2: she goes down to Lenny in the laundry room after
Speaker 2: Jonah let her in. She's like, so much for helping Mia,
Speaker 2: and Benson's like, she wasn't ready and I pushed her.
Speaker 2: And I agree with Lenny here, like spare me your
Speaker 2: self pity. This is one of Benson's flaws. She's always
Speaker 2: making it about her some not always. I'm not gonna
Speaker 2: say that about our queen, but like I hate when
Speaker 2: it's like it's my fault. Oh it's me, And it's like, okay, yeah,
Speaker 2: what do you want from us? It is your fault.
Speaker 2: You did make a mistake. You might have pushed her
Speaker 2: too much, like it was too drastic, Like spare me
Speaker 2: the self pity. I like that. Lenny just does not
Speaker 2: have it. But then I turn on Lenny, don't worry.
Speaker 2: And then Lenny's just like, so you care, but Mia doesn't,
Speaker 2: So what's the fucking use? And Benson sees a door
Speaker 2: a few stares up in the laundry room. She's like,
Speaker 2: where does this lead? And Mia responds it's the old
Speaker 2: servant steps and that they share the laundry, and before
Speaker 2: Benson even says anything, Lenny is like, oh no, you're
Speaker 2: not staying here. And Benson's like, it's the only way
Speaker 2: for me to protect Mia, and Lenny is like, she
Speaker 2: made her bed, now she can lie in, which is
Speaker 2: quite harsh. Lady, Yeah. And also this is so classic SVU,
Speaker 2: like she cannot stop doing the laundry. She cannot and
Speaker 2: she's straight up as like, go home, detective, but she can't,
Speaker 2: and she starts reminding Lenny of the story of her
Speaker 2: old friend she was talking about from earlier, and finally
Speaker 2: she gives in while violently scrubbing out a stain, and
Speaker 2: we cut to Benson in the laundry room reading the paper,
Speaker 2: and right as she puts down the paper and sighs,
Speaker 2: we hear screams from upstairs. He is screaming at Mia
Speaker 2: to get on her knees, and she's like, I'm sorry,
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, and he's like that's not enough. You're Sorry's
Speaker 2: me nothing, And she's like, let go of me, and
Speaker 2: he's like, don't tell me what to do, you stupid.
Speaker 2: And while the yelling is happening, Benson is trying to
Speaker 2: kick down the door and finally it breaks. She runs
Speaker 2: up the stairs and we see her shocked face as
Speaker 2: she says, oh my god, and Mia is straight up
Speaker 2: standing over the kitchen island staring at Benson with a
Speaker 2: knife straight in her heart all the way in. He
Speaker 2: stabbed her so deep. Knife is just like it's bad.
Speaker 2: It's like I don't think it's sternum, but it's just
Speaker 2: the center of the chest. It's long heart. It's like
Speaker 2: there's this is a this is a gruesome attack.
Speaker 1: And it's like because he doesn't have his guns to
Speaker 1: like threaten with, and he's probably not as good with
Speaker 1: a knife or something, because it's like, did you want
Speaker 1: a killer? Like don't you like having this person around
Speaker 1: that you can just like absolutely abuse and have it
Speaker 1: You're buck and call like did you like you know
Speaker 1: what I mean? Like you could have just slashed her,
Speaker 1: like there's other ways to hurt her, but he stabbed
Speaker 1: her right in the fucking heart.
Speaker 2: That's like no accident, you know, no. And I mean
Speaker 2: this is why it's so important to help victims escape
Speaker 2: because this is mostly how women die is at the
Speaker 2: hands of the partner where it's like one throw too
Speaker 2: strong at the wall and that's that or your throat,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean? Right, right, it's quote unquote
Speaker 2: an accident, But you were trying to hurt her.
Speaker 1: You maybe weren't trying to kill her, but you were
Speaker 1: still trying to hurt her, you know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but and we you know, we know this now,
Speaker 2: but like and once a woman is pregnant, the chances
Speaker 2: of being murdered by your domestic partner raises so much eye.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but we never find out if she was by
Speaker 1: the way, we don't know if she was pregnant. Yeah,
Speaker 1: probably too early to tell anyway, because he kills her
Speaker 1: like right out, like days after this, the marital rape.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just like having someone that's just like scared
Speaker 2: of you at all, Like what a horrible life like.
Speaker 2: This episode is one of the more powerful episodes of
Speaker 2: this show. But this guy's a coward and he starts
Speaker 2: screaming she attacked me. Benson throws his ass on the
Speaker 2: ground and cuffs him and then runs to attend to
Speaker 2: me convulsing on the floor and tells Lenny to call
Speaker 2: nine one one. She can't breathe though, and there's blood
Speaker 2: pouring from her mouth, squirting from the knife she's trying
Speaker 2: to contain it, and she just dies on the floor,
Speaker 2: fully covered in blood, and Benson is shocked and Lenny
Speaker 2: can't even dial the phone because she's so horrified by
Speaker 2: what she is just witnessed. And Benson's walking and we
Speaker 2: hear Craigan ask how she's holding up, and Benson is like,
Speaker 2: how do you think? And he's like, you did everything
Speaker 2: you could and she's like, I could have arrested her
Speaker 2: for filing a false rape report, and it's like, Babe,
Speaker 2: you slept in a laundry room. You did the best
Speaker 2: you could. Craigan also says, I've never seen you lock
Speaker 2: up a victim, and she's like, oh god, I should have.
Speaker 2: You know, she would have been alive. And Craigan's like,
Speaker 2: sooner or later, like this would have happened me and
Speaker 2: made her choice. And Benson's like, are you fucking blaming
Speaker 2: the victim? Is it her fault? And he goes no,
Speaker 2: but it's also certainly not your fault. Benson walks out
Speaker 2: of the apartment and we see a blood soaked shirt
Speaker 2: and Lenny is like, oh, are you happy now. It's like, geez, bitch,
Speaker 2: she is cutthroat. So then Lenny goes, was it worth it, Olivia?
Speaker 2: You couldn't leave her alone? You just pushed and pushed
Speaker 2: for what for that? And she runs into her apartment.
Speaker 2: Jonah calls for her and says, don't let him get
Speaker 2: away with it, And in that moment, Benson stares into
Speaker 2: the cop car and stares at Brent, and he's in
Speaker 2: the backseat crying, trying to act like he fucking cares.
Speaker 1: He's crying because his life is over. He doesn't fucking
Speaker 1: care that he killed his wife. Yeah, it's like a
Speaker 1: cop was hidden in your crawl space, dude, Like, you're
Speaker 1: not getting away with this.
Speaker 2: No, And we're in the lab with o'haleran, and he
Speaker 2: also said the evidence is solid like a rock, and
Speaker 2: the suspect kit on him doesn't show a scratch. So
Speaker 2: he's going away for life. There's no self defense, like,
Speaker 2: there's no shot in how he's not going to jail forever.
Speaker 2: And I know it's bad to do this, and we
Speaker 2: get mad at the detectives for doing it, but I
Speaker 2: hope he gets the shit beat out of him every
Speaker 2: single day in prison. Yeah, And he tells her that
Speaker 2: they also solved another murder and she assumes, like, oh,
Speaker 2: he's killed before, but o'haleran's like, no, not unless he
Speaker 2: started young and had a sex change. What is going on? Basically,
Speaker 2: they found fingerprints on the kitchen phone that matched an
Speaker 2: old homicide from nineteen seventy four of a man named
Speaker 2: Vincent Creswell who was shot six times in his sleep
Speaker 2: in his apartment, and then says his wife Caroline was
Speaker 2: arrested at the scene, hands her a photo and says
Speaker 2: and then she escaped and has been a fugitive ever
Speaker 2: since the early seventies. And it's Lenny. It's fucking Lenny
Speaker 2: Casey is shocked. Yeah, this is such a good show.
Speaker 2: And this is Brenda Blethin, by the way, And she's
Speaker 2: a star of stage, TV and film for forty years
Speaker 2: eighty seven credits, and from twenty eleven to twenty twenty
Speaker 2: two she was the star of the show Vira, which
Speaker 2: is a murder mystery series set in Northumberland, Northumberland on
Speaker 2: the England Scotland border. I bet my parents have definitely
Speaker 2: seen that. They love and.
Speaker 1: Definitely your uncle. Yeah, yeah, they love this masterpiece shit.
Speaker 1: But I do too, Like as I'm getting older, I'm
Speaker 1: like I'm becoming them. I love British like crime shows
Speaker 1: so much. I want to watch it, if you know.
Speaker 1: I Yeah, I love that part of the world too. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I forget where where I know her name from.
Speaker 1: She was nominated for something I feel like in one
Speaker 1: year on the in the I can't remember. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: think for Oscar she was, But like now i'm she's
Speaker 1: a Golden Globe, BAFTA and cons Festival Award and two
Speaker 1: Academy Award nominations.
Speaker 2: What are they?
Speaker 1: So? Let me see what they're for Best Supporting Actress
Speaker 1: and Best Actress.
Speaker 2: Yeah, tell me you found it, because I'm not so.
Speaker 2: She was nominated in nineteen ninety nine for Best Actress
Speaker 2: in a Supporting Role for someone called Little Voice, Okay,
Speaker 2: then in nineteen ninety seven for Best Actress in a
Speaker 2: Leading Role for someone called Secrets in Line.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what I was saying before. I was like,
Speaker 1: when I saw Secrets and Lies in her IMDb, I'm like,
Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure that's her big way.
Speaker 2: I never saw it. She was nominated for an Emmy
Speaker 2: for this Oh really, Yeah, it says two thousand and
Speaker 2: nine nominee Outstanding Guest Actress and a Drama Series Law
Speaker 2: and Order SVU for playing Lenny. Yeah.
Speaker 1: But I don't think she didn't win, because I think
Speaker 1: the only people who have ever won are Yeah, I'm like,
Speaker 1: who's won? Cynthia and Courtillard for no, no, the other
Speaker 1: French woman. It's not Mary on Coutiard, but it's I
Speaker 1: know it's French Isabelle u Pear.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah who. Neo Baer begged to be in it
Speaker 2: and said, babe, I'll get you an emmy, just do this. Yeah.
Speaker 2: He was right, he delivered, He delivered. I think other
Speaker 2: people have been nominated, but those are the two big winners.
Speaker 2: I wonder if a man has ever But she won
Speaker 2: the BAFTA for Secrets and Lies. And we're back to
Speaker 2: looking at the photo while behind her is present day Lenny,
Speaker 2: and she's explaining that she's been dreading this day for
Speaker 2: thirty four years. Her husband wheels in and he's like,
Speaker 2: what's going on? And she had never told him, and
Speaker 2: he's like, wait, what the fuck? When did this happen?
Speaker 2: And she met her husband three weeks after she escaped
Speaker 2: from jail. She slept in churches and on the subway
Speaker 2: and stole food and wallets, and one night it was
Speaker 2: pouring rain and she went into the diner and bought
Speaker 2: a bowl of soup, and he saw her sitting there,
Speaker 2: wet and cold. She told him that she was there
Speaker 2: on vacation and a con man hustled her at the airport,
Speaker 2: so she lost her suitcase, money, everything, and Jonah took
Speaker 2: her home and saved her life. And then we go
Speaker 2: into a famous SVU cut back and forth from each
Speaker 2: of them talking about each other, and that day she
Speaker 2: says he was an answer to a prayer. She says
Speaker 2: he was a character out of a Dickens novel, like orphanage.
Speaker 2: She had nothing, no parents, no, Then she says her
Speaker 2: parents disowned her after the arrests, and Benson asked if
Speaker 2: she ever wanted children, and he says, we tried for years,
Speaker 2: but she was infertile. And then she tells Benson though,
Speaker 2: the truth, which is that she was on birth control
Speaker 2: all these years because if she had a kid, then
Speaker 2: she would go back to jail and lose her kids.
Speaker 2: So she just couldn't do it. So this is so complicated,
Speaker 2: and I think this episode does a really great job
Speaker 2: of showing how complicated abuse is and being a woman is.
Speaker 2: And I'm just impressed with sview. Over and over again.
Speaker 2: She said she's been living in fear of being recognized
Speaker 2: every day and that's why there's no travel, no work,
Speaker 2: and he's like, is their marriage even legal? Like I
Speaker 2: don't even know her name. Her name was Caroline, but
Speaker 2: that name is dead and she is Lenny now, which
Speaker 2: is a really cute and unique name. I don't know
Speaker 2: how she came up with it. Benson asks what happened?
Speaker 2: So basically they met at seventeen in her and Vincent
Speaker 2: at an anti war protest. Vin since the dead man
Speaker 2: that she shot. Okay, so they met at seventeen at
Speaker 2: an anti war protest. Vinnie was standing on stage doing poetry.
Speaker 2: She said it wasn't good, but he was passionate. And
Speaker 2: this truly does describe how most male comedians get dates,
Speaker 2: like they're so terrible, but I guess you know, it's
Speaker 2: all they care about, so it feels like passion. Yeah,
Speaker 2: they fell in love and with each other and the
Speaker 2: anti war movement. But then the war ended, but he
Speaker 2: just wouldn't move on, and he was still just like
Speaker 2: super angry and a failed poet, and he took his
Speaker 2: anger out on her because his poems really sucked, and
Speaker 2: he blamed her for his bad poems and it's like
Speaker 2: fuck you. But he liked boozs and drugs and he
Speaker 2: would beat her up all the time Bruce's black eyes.
Speaker 2: One time he choked her until she passed out and
Speaker 2: then bought a gun, and when he was drunk he
Speaker 2: would talk about using the gun for suicide. And then
Speaker 2: one time he was like, I'm gonna shoot you and
Speaker 2: then I'm gonna take my own life, and she knew
Speaker 2: he meant it, and so she had to get away.
Speaker 2: And Benson's like, why didn't you leave? Which knows that's
Speaker 2: not a good question, right, I guess we all always
Speaker 2: want to ask it, Like, I don't know, did you
Speaker 2: ever watch the Julia Roberts movie Sleeping with the Enemy?
Speaker 1: Yes, huge scary movie of my child scary?
Speaker 2: Why did you watch it as children? I don't know.
Speaker 1: It was definitely like a we're gonna watch Sleeping with
Speaker 1: the Enemy this weekend like an event, Like it was
Speaker 1: so scary and there's barely any like blood in it.
Speaker 1: It's just like the scariness of that man. And is
Speaker 1: that man in it?
Speaker 2: Is he not? Hold on?
Speaker 1: I know we're doing a lot of fucking imdbing right now.
Speaker 1: Can I just look up one thing? Wait, they should sponsor?
Speaker 1: Why is IMDb not doing ads on our podcast? Like?
Speaker 2: What what are they doing? Patrick Bergen, Oh.
Speaker 1: Patrick Bergen, I was thinking of a different guy, never mind,
Speaker 1: but this guy.
Speaker 2: Is scary, scary. But yeah, I just remember like the cans,
Speaker 2: like she had to keep all of the cans up
Speaker 2: food in one direction. But that's how crazy it is,
Speaker 2: because how did he find her? Because she fakes her
Speaker 2: own death, like fakes the drowning, and then when.
Speaker 1: He finds her, she goes into her pantry, right, and
Speaker 1: all the cans are organized, and that's when she knows
Speaker 1: he's found her. Right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm like getting chills. I'm like scared already.
Speaker 1: Like truly one of the first movies that I think
Speaker 1: really really dramatized like the terror of domestic violence. You know,
Speaker 1: I don't feel like a lot of movies were doing
Speaker 1: that before that one.
Speaker 2: That was a big one. I also just don't know
Speaker 2: how that's I just can't believe. I watched it as
Speaker 2: a child, Like it came out out in nineteen ninety one.
Speaker 2: I was five, like, yeah, so fucked up. That's really young.
Speaker 2: Maybe we saw it later, but I was still really young.
Speaker 2: And she's like I was trying, okay, So she asks
Speaker 2: the dreaded question, why didn't you leave? And she's like,
Speaker 2: I was trying to and she'd been stashing away change
Speaker 2: from the groce trees and she hid it in a
Speaker 2: shoe and she had almost fifty dollars. But then he
Speaker 2: found it and he was his brain went straight to
Speaker 2: you're a hooker, Yeah, to have that much cash, and
Speaker 2: if she wanted to be a whore, he was going
Speaker 2: to treat her like one, and then raped her and
Speaker 2: she was crying and she's nodding as she's explaining all
Speaker 2: of this, And after he went to sleep, she took
Speaker 2: the gun and shot his ass up. I'm sure the
Speaker 2: world did not miss him or his poems. And she
Speaker 2: heard the siren and the neighbors called the cops and
Speaker 2: she had the gun in the hand when they broke
Speaker 2: down the door, and so they took her away, and
Speaker 2: she never told them that she was raped or anyone.
Speaker 2: She's never told anybody until right now. Gray Lick and
Speaker 2: Craigan are watching this whole thing go down, and they're like,
Speaker 2: this sucks, Like marital rape wasn't even a crime back then.
Speaker 2: They would have we would have never charged her today,
Speaker 2: and Gray looks like, yeah, let's just give her probation
Speaker 2: and then out at bat out of hell. I can't
Speaker 2: even believe it. Judith Light appears and she goes, Nope,
Speaker 2: not anymore. I'm going to return to the DA's office
Speaker 2: for some unfinished business. She barges into interrogation and says, Hi, Caroline,
Speaker 2: remember me, And she does remember her she was the
Speaker 2: prosecutor from the case. And she goes and I still
Speaker 2: am arrest her and charge her with escape in the
Speaker 2: first degree. She's as cold as ice. Benson is shocked,
Speaker 2: and Judith is cold as fuck. What I don't know
Speaker 2: what's colder as fuck or as ice? But and she
Speaker 2: demands she be called by her old name, and Benson
Speaker 2: mirandizes her. And now we're in court with her favorite
Speaker 2: bailiff and defense attorney Julia Zimmer, who is from the
Speaker 2: famous episode Zebras where she suffocates in a car. Now
Speaker 2: her husband is watching with Olivia and Jonah. So Judith
Speaker 2: obviously wants to lock her ass up because of the
Speaker 2: prior escape, so that makes sense, But Julia Zimmer's like,
Speaker 2: can we please do home arrass? She needs to take
Speaker 2: care of her husband, and then Judith, at her worst, goes, Hi,
Speaker 2: you're a nurse. At least she won't shoot him, so
Speaker 2: so bitch agro like this is a These are like
Speaker 2: elderly people, like I don't know, and no one, even
Speaker 2: the judge is like okay, relaxed, Yeah, like every yeah,
Speaker 2: everyone is upset. But she is getting remand which sucks.
Speaker 2: Benson runs to Judith, who's like, oh, are you here
Speaker 2: to fucking lecture me? And Benson's like you're being gross,
Speaker 2: like what And Judith is like, Oh, you don't even know,
Speaker 2: do you. You don't know what happened. You didn't ask
Speaker 2: her how she escaped. So now it's storytime from would
Speaker 2: you say? Juds? So yeah, basically Lenny ak Carolyn asked
Speaker 2: for a meeting for a plea bargain and she climbed
Speaker 2: out the bathroom window and it was her fault and
Speaker 2: for years everyone made fun of her, so it's personal.
Speaker 2: So now she's getting back at something from so long
Speaker 2: ago that's so stupid because nobody respected her anymore and
Speaker 2: it took her a long time to get her career
Speaker 2: back in action, and she explains how it sucked for
Speaker 2: women dumb. So the DA at the time didn't want
Speaker 2: a man yelling at Caroline on the stand. It would
Speaker 2: look bad, so she got this case after he had
Speaker 2: to ask for her husband's permission to try this case.
Speaker 2: So now she's going to put her in jail because
Speaker 2: she set back the image of women prosecutors and because
Speaker 2: Judith never got to work in homicide again. And it
Speaker 2: still seems petty. It's been forty years. We know you
Speaker 2: live in a townhouse. We've seen it, you're rich. Everything
Speaker 2: worked out, yeah, yeah, But when confronted, but I wonder
Speaker 2: if her husband died or they got divorced or whatnot,
Speaker 2: because she wants to fuck Stabler or maybe she's just yeah,
Speaker 2: I don't know. I wonder who she's married to, like
Speaker 2: a professor, we have another lawyer. I don't think.
Speaker 1: I don't think we ever find out Judy's or Donnelly's
Speaker 1: backstory or personal life.
Speaker 2: But then Benson confronts her like so for revenge, and
Speaker 2: she goes, no, I got over being bitter a long
Speaker 2: time ago. I'm here for the victim, vincent, and Benson's like,
Speaker 2: she was fucking beaten. There was no shelter, and Judy
Speaker 2: is like, you don't need to remind me how hard
Speaker 2: it was for women Benson, and then she goes, listen,
Speaker 2: she snowed you don't feel bad. She snowed me too,
Speaker 2: and she starts reading a letter that she got from
Speaker 2: Caroline back in the day that says, please help me.
Speaker 2: She wants to plead guilty, but she has a huge
Speaker 2: problem and she needs to meet in private. So Donnelly
Speaker 2: met her and that's where she ran away. And Judith
Speaker 2: never found out like the reason she wanted to talk
Speaker 2: or anything, and believes that this is a ruse. She
Speaker 2: thinks Lenny is a big time player. So now we're
Speaker 2: at Rikers and Benson, and she tells Benson like, leave
Speaker 2: me alone, what do you want? But Benson wants the truth.
Speaker 2: She wasn't planning on escaping, Lenny explains, but there was
Speaker 2: a window open and she ran. She just took it.
Speaker 2: But then Benson brings out the letter and goes, tell
Speaker 2: me about this letter, or you're going to be in
Speaker 2: jail forever. And I actually checked the escape you only
Speaker 2: get a max of up to five years.
Speaker 1: Interesting because in my true story it's different.
Speaker 2: I wonder did she get charged for both? I don't know. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I wonder because I was so curious what it was
Speaker 2: and I looked it up and this was just like
Speaker 2: on the Google main page of Wikipedia. It was just like,
Speaker 2: you could go to prison for up to five years,
Speaker 2: but I don't know if you're serving like a life
Speaker 2: sentence or like a long sentence. I think it's worth
Speaker 2: trying to escape if you only get five more years.
Speaker 2: Who gives a shit.
Speaker 1: If you're listening to this podcast and you're serving life,
Speaker 1: give it a shot.
Speaker 2: Come on, Yeah, I would love if we had a
Speaker 2: jail population of listeners who are into our acab vibes.
Speaker 2: But even the threat of jail forever, Lenny's like, fine,
Speaker 2: I don't care, I deserve it. Leave me alone. And
Speaker 2: Benson's like, just please, like, tell the jury what really happened.
Speaker 2: Why did you run? She says she can't tell her,
Speaker 2: and Benson keeps pushing. If you don't want to help yourself, fine,
Speaker 2: but then do it for Jonah. And she's scared because
Speaker 2: he won't forgive her. Benson is like, you know, Jonah
Speaker 2: deserves to know. You've been lying to him for a
Speaker 2: long ass time. So finally she starts revealing more and
Speaker 2: more layers to her past. So she cried and he
Speaker 2: said shut up. So this is back out for the rape.
Speaker 2: So she's crying and this vincent guy tells her to
Speaker 2: shut up and then puts a gun under his pillow
Speaker 2: and said that that that he was going to give
Speaker 2: her more of that in the morning. And then she
Speaker 2: was really disturbed because he just fell asleep, and it's
Speaker 2: like what he did to her didn't bother her, bother
Speaker 2: him at all, Like it was the only thing that
Speaker 2: relaxed him, Like hurting her was the only thing that
Speaker 2: made him feel good. And so she pulled the trigger.
Speaker 2: There was blood everywhere. As she tells the story, it
Speaker 2: switches in a star swipe jk but from vipers to
Speaker 2: her on the stand and her lawyer rests as Judith
Speaker 2: comes to punch on this old woman. Did you tell
Speaker 2: the cops you got hit? I mean, she is fully
Speaker 2: bullying this woman. She's like, you have no proof about anything,
Speaker 2: and if all of this happened, why wouldn't you just
Speaker 2: tell a jury thirty four years ago? It's like you're
Speaker 2: and then to me, I'm like, you just said how
Speaker 2: much it sucks to be a woman, and especially back
Speaker 2: in the day, and now you're pretending you don't know
Speaker 2: this stuff when you're like, why don't you tell the
Speaker 2: cops all this information? Yeah, tell the jury it's just
Speaker 2: like she's not being consistent, she isn't just like a
Speaker 2: fit of her own self centered rage, and she's really
Speaker 2: not seeing outside of it or acknowledging that this is
Speaker 2: really revenge, Like you know why people don't tell cops anything.
Speaker 2: Jenny looks at Olivia in the stands and it gives
Speaker 2: her power, just the sight, so she starts to talk
Speaker 2: while crying, even though she really doesn't want to, and
Speaker 2: Judith light thinks that she didn't come to court because
Speaker 2: she was guilty and she knew it. And finally she
Speaker 2: cries out, I was pregnant, and they show Jonah, who
Speaker 2: is so mad in her and a lot of emotions
Speaker 2: on his face and his whole life is crumbling down
Speaker 2: around him. Judith won't let up and is like, come on,
Speaker 2: so now you're gonna say that hormones made you do it?
Speaker 2: I mean, it's wild. So then she explains she ran
Speaker 2: so she can get an abortion, and Judas stops in
Speaker 2: her tracks and is shocked and understanding all of a sudden,
Speaker 2: like I think it all fucking hit her in that moment,
Speaker 2: because you can't get an abortion in prison, and she
Speaker 2: didn't want to have that man's baby, like, she didn't
Speaker 2: care about going to prison. She just didn't want this
Speaker 2: child growing inside of her, and that's why she wanted
Speaker 2: to meet Judy to tell her she would plead guilty
Speaker 2: if she could just please get an abortion. But when
Speaker 2: she went to see her, she was so strong and confident,
Speaker 2: and she was ashamed of her weakness, and she just
Speaker 2: couldn't tell her, like, how could a woman like Judith
Speaker 2: Light ever understand a woman like her? And Judy looks
Speaker 2: so shocked, and you know, at least she could admit
Speaker 2: that she's wrong, and she's just like, really, you could
Speaker 2: tell that she is regretting all of these decisions. Benson
Speaker 2: looks really proud. She's found not guilty for murder, but
Speaker 2: is found guilty on escape and they'll meet back at
Speaker 2: sentencing and Judith like is like, oh, and by the way,
Speaker 2: we recommend probation, and the judge goes, I agree, and
Speaker 2: I can't wait to hear your thoughts on this, Judith Light,
Speaker 2: And then gavel gavel. On the way out, Lenny asked
Speaker 2: Judith Light why and she says an important lesson here,
Speaker 2: which I like that this is She goes, I was
Speaker 2: trying so hard to be one of the boys. She
Speaker 2: forgot why she became a lawyer in the first place.
Speaker 2: And this is something to remember. I feel like this
Speaker 2: is true in comedy at times too, where you're just
Speaker 2: like say, whatever, cool guy. Yeah, Like when you start,
Speaker 2: there's just so many dudes everywhere, and then you're like,
Speaker 2: oh god, all these guys are disgusting. Whatever. Yeah, they're
Speaker 2: all just like cheating on their wives with subpar jokes,
Speaker 2: and then you realize how much better your life is
Speaker 2: not trying to be one of the boys. They're an
Speaker 2: inferior group. Yeah, Casey, I'm talking to you. No, So
Speaker 2: that's yeah, So I just I like that she said that.
Speaker 2: So then Lenny thanks for defense attorney, and Benson and
Speaker 2: Lenny go to try to talk to Jonah and he
Speaker 2: says it's over. He says, I'm happy for you, Annie,
Speaker 2: but and she's like, oh no, please, don't say it.
Speaker 2: And he continues and asks when did you get that abortion?
Speaker 2: And she says, when you went to the conference in Seattle.
Speaker 2: And he says, every decision you and I made was
Speaker 2: based on a lie. He's like, remember I always wanted
Speaker 2: children and grandchildren and you stole that from me. And
Speaker 2: she's like, no, I'm the same girl you loved and married.
Speaker 2: But also like, was that love based on anything? Like
Speaker 2: I'm sure that they've been together for so long now,
Speaker 2: I'm sure it's real, but like you also just had nothing,
Speaker 2: like it could have been Jonah or someone else.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I think that like after but after five
Speaker 1: years after she was like Okay, I don't think I'm
Speaker 1: getting caught, Like maybe she could have moved on if
Speaker 1: she didn't love Jonah.
Speaker 2: I think she loved him, right, I think she did. No,
Speaker 2: they grew into like a beautiful relationship. I'm just saying, like,
Speaker 2: if it was Jonah or someone else, when you have
Speaker 2: no idea and you're on the run, like and a
Speaker 2: guy like yeah, if it was a different guy that
Speaker 2: was like I'll take care of you, I'm sure that
Speaker 2: would have been great.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I'm sure there was something about him because
Speaker 1: he seemed like such a like like the kind of
Speaker 1: guy that goes up to a girl who's shivering and
Speaker 1: freezing over a bowl of soap and a soup and
Speaker 1: a diner.
Speaker 2: You're either a really nice guy or a really evil guy.
Speaker 2: You know. Yeah, you're the guy from Dexter. Yeah, the
Speaker 2: new blood him too exactly. But yeah, she's just like
Speaker 2: I'm the same girl, and he pulls away from her,
Speaker 2: he cannot forgive her, and he wheels off, and she
Speaker 2: is so sad. And I mean, Benson really uncovered a lot,
Speaker 2: a lot, I don't. I mean, she could have just
Speaker 2: left everyone alone. I don't know, Like this must have
Speaker 2: been like a two bottle of Red Knight for Olivia. Yeah,
Speaker 2: this is a lot. She gets taken away and her
Speaker 2: and Olivia stare at each other, and that's that.
Speaker 1: But can I just say, it's it's horrible that she
Speaker 1: like doesn't have Jonah anymore. That's horrible, and like she
Speaker 1: is gonna have to kind of start over. But in
Speaker 1: a way, she's free now. She can like leave Manhattan,
Speaker 1: she can do like not live with like looking over
Speaker 1: her shoulder the whole time. You know, Like, yeah, I
Speaker 1: do feel like it's it's like a good thing that
Speaker 1: happened to Lenny. But maybe she did lose Jonah and
Speaker 1: like kind of everything she knew of her life for
Speaker 1: the last thirty four years or whatever. But let's take
Speaker 1: a break and we'll be right back with the several
Speaker 1: true moments to discuss.
Speaker 2: Okay, we are back, So all right.
Speaker 1: So I first wanted to just touch on the Donnelly
Speaker 1: piece of this episode, because it seems that her whole
Speaker 1: point of view is based on this New Yorker article
Speaker 1: called The Upstart about a woman named Leslie Crocker Snyder.
Speaker 2: Who this is. So that's the last name.
Speaker 1: Now, that's the last name, Leslie Crocker Snyder. She's a
Speaker 1: former prosecutor and judge who twice ran for Manhattan DA.
Speaker 1: She did not win, but she was an ADA in Manhattan,
Speaker 1: and she was as she was campaign for the first time,
Speaker 1: she would talk a lot about how she became a prosecutor,
Speaker 1: and she said that in nineteen sixty eight, when she
Speaker 1: was twenty five, she joined the staff of the DA
Speaker 1: Frank Hogan, and she kept saying, she said, quote, I
Speaker 1: kept asking mister Hogan to go to the homicide Bureau,
Speaker 1: which was a big bastion of male chauvinism at the time,
Speaker 1: and he kept putting me off, saying I could do
Speaker 1: I should do consumer affairs, which is where the few
Speaker 1: women in the office tended to go. And then finally
Speaker 1: one day I said, you know, come on, it's really time,
Speaker 1: mister Hogan. And he said, well, if you bring me
Speaker 1: a letter of permission from your husband. So that whole
Speaker 1: letter of permission thing comes right from this article. And
Speaker 1: that's what that little tidbit was based on. And I
Speaker 1: just think it's interesting because I feel like Donnelly might
Speaker 1: be fully based on this woman. She was the first
Speaker 1: female to try felony and homicide cases as an ADA
Speaker 1: in the Manhattan District Attorney's Office. She founded and led
Speaker 1: the Sex Crimes Prosecution Bureau, which was the first in
Speaker 1: the nation. And she co authored New York State's rape
Speaker 1: shield law. And she was a legal consult an on
Speaker 1: Law and Order and Law and Order Trial by Jury
Speaker 1: like for Law and Order for sixty plus episodes and
Speaker 1: Trial by Jury for like as many as they lasted.
Speaker 1: And then she actually played a judge in three episodes
Speaker 1: of Law and Order Regular, So an icon an icon.
Speaker 1: But to move on, the Lenny storyline is obviously based
Speaker 1: on many stories of women who are driven to kill
Speaker 1: their abusive husbands. And there's I'm just gonna talk about
Speaker 1: two cases, so and they're very they both have a
Speaker 1: little bit in common with Lenny, but not totally. As
Speaker 1: you know the show, they grab a little bit here
Speaker 1: and there. So the first case is the Marie Dean
Speaker 1: Arrington case, and Marie Errington was convicted in nineteen sixty
Speaker 1: four of the murder of her husband, Lester Jack Arrington.
Speaker 1: Jack was a former cop and a nightclub bouncer in Miami.
Speaker 1: He was killed on July fourth, nineteen sixty four, and
Speaker 1: the next day his wife, Marie, turned herself in and confessed.
Speaker 2: She said it was an accident. Her lawyer said it
Speaker 2: was self defense.
Speaker 1: They were arguing the car, and one witness said he
Speaker 1: saw he had seen Jack choking her in the front seat,
Speaker 1: and he went and broke them up, and then I
Speaker 1: don't know what happened. He walked away and she shot him.
Speaker 1: There's barely any information about this case. It's like very
Speaker 1: hard to find still, like a lot of articles where
Speaker 1: you click on them and the links are dead.
Speaker 2: So the police never.
Speaker 1: Found the weapon, and so she got manslaughter and twenty
Speaker 1: years in jail, and she later admitted in an interview
Speaker 1: that she had buried the gun with her husband. Now,
Speaker 1: Marie was not not that I'm victim blaming, but she
Speaker 1: was not linny.
Speaker 2: She was not like a young girl. You know.
Speaker 1: She had like honestly committed a lot of crimes leading
Speaker 1: up to this, like writing bad checks, assault, forgery, robbery,
Speaker 1: she had a rap sheet, okay, And so a few
Speaker 1: years after this murder of her husband, she had a
Speaker 1: son and a daughter. Her son and a friend robbed
Speaker 1: a gas station. Nobody was hurt in this robbery, and
Speaker 1: only sixty dollars was taken, which I know, in nineteen
Speaker 1: sixty eight it's more sixty dollars is more than sixty
Speaker 1: dollars now, but still not an egregious amount of mine.
Speaker 1: And he was, at eighteen years old, sentenced to life
Speaker 1: in prison and his friend got probation, which honestly sounds
Speaker 1: like a lot of racist bullshit. Like Marie and her family,
Speaker 1: they are black, So like putting an eighteen year old
Speaker 1: in jail for the rest of his life for robbing
Speaker 1: sixty bucks from a gas station feels like, you know.
Speaker 2: Well, especially if the other guy got probation.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I don't know what the race of the
Speaker 1: other guy was or what the story was. Maybe the
Speaker 1: son is the one that had a weapon, Like who knows,
Speaker 1: you know, there's a lot of you know things there,
Speaker 1: but it's crazy. And the same lawyer, the same defense
Speaker 1: attorney repped her daughter in a fraud case and she
Speaker 1: also got jail time. So Marie was like livid at
Speaker 1: this defense attorney that he didn't get better results for
Speaker 1: her kids. So when she was out on a peel
Speaker 1: bond for her manslaughter charge, she went to his office
Speaker 1: to kill him, and he wasn't there, so she kidnapped
Speaker 1: his secretary, Vivian Ridder, and then she did kill her
Speaker 1: and Ridder, who had three kids. Her body was found
Speaker 1: three days later in the woods near a state road
Speaker 1: a few miles away from Leesburg where this happened, and
Speaker 1: she'd been shot and run over with her own car.
Speaker 1: Repeatedly like horrible, horrible. This is really layered, yeah, very layered.
Speaker 1: Marie also robbed the home of the judge who had
Speaker 1: given her son the life sentence. So I don't know
Speaker 1: what her background is. It's not really documented anywhere. I'm
Speaker 1: sure she lived a life where like crime was her
Speaker 1: only option. She was described by others as quote unquote
Speaker 1: odd and a bad seed. So like, who knows, But
Speaker 1: I don't think that that. I don't know if I
Speaker 1: believe in that. I do kind of feel like that's
Speaker 1: something that happens to you as a results of things
Speaker 1: in your childhood, but not that there can't be you know,
Speaker 1: born psychopaths, as there have been episodes of Law and
Speaker 1: Order chronicling. So on December sixth, it's also like what
Speaker 1: you can get away with?
Speaker 2: You know what I mean? Because I'm sure like rich
Speaker 2: Manhattan kids are doing the same bad stuff as like
Speaker 2: other whatever. Like if you're a rich white team and
Speaker 2: you might be doing the same thing as non white
Speaker 2: rich teens, yes, and getting different punishments that then set
Speaker 2: you up for different shit too, totally exactly, yeah, like
Speaker 2: what is what is robbery? Is it stealing a candy bar?
Speaker 2: And does who get?
Speaker 1: You? Know? So, I don't know what her the depth
Speaker 1: of her charges, but now once you murder this secretary,
Speaker 1: I'm out. I'm not on here, I'm not with you anymore.
Speaker 1: But so on December of nineteen sixty eight, she sentenced
Speaker 1: to death for first degree murder of Vivian and a
Speaker 1: year or so later, March of nineteen sixty nine, she
Speaker 1: escapes from the Florida Correctional Institution in her pajamas by
Speaker 1: cutting a window screen and jumping out, so that there
Speaker 1: could be a movie about her.
Speaker 2: I know it's wild.
Speaker 1: Well get this, this gets her put on FBI's ten
Speaker 1: Most Wanted Lists, making her the second woman ever to
Speaker 1: be on it. And I believe there's only ever been
Speaker 1: ten women on it, so she's one of the ten
Speaker 1: women that have been on it. She was on the
Speaker 1: Lamb for a much shorter time than Lenny, but she
Speaker 1: did make it three years, and in March of nineteen
Speaker 1: seventy two they found her and she was working as
Speaker 1: a waitress to New Orleans and she got ten extra
Speaker 1: years for escaping. So but that was also back in
Speaker 1: the seventies. Maybe they've changed it now, but in the
Speaker 1: seventies she got ten extra years for escaping, and then
Speaker 1: later that year her death sentence was actually commuted to
Speaker 1: life because of like US Supreme Court decisions about death penalty,
Speaker 1: and so she actually died in May of twenty fourteen
Speaker 1: in prison from heart problems at the age of eighty.
Speaker 2: Well this is wrong, but I'm for people escaping. Like,
Speaker 2: if you get to live on the lamb and you
Speaker 2: don't hurt anyone during your escape, I'm all for it. Like,
Speaker 2: good for you, Fuck the government.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but like, can people escape and not hurt people,
Speaker 1: especially when you're desperate, you have no identification you have
Speaker 1: no wallet, you have no like no funds, Like you're desperate,
Speaker 1: You're gonna like hurt people.
Speaker 2: I feel like, yeah, because like even because she hurt Jonah,
Speaker 2: I guess in theory, you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but Lenny is a perfect example. Like Lenny went
Speaker 1: on the lamb and like lived a perfectly like model
Speaker 1: citizen life.
Speaker 2: You know, she didn't hurt.
Speaker 1: Anybody, but it does she was robbing people, it said,
Speaker 1: you know, she was robbing people and stealing wallets and
Speaker 1: stealing food. You know, but I don't really care about
Speaker 1: that kind of stuff anyway. That is the case of
Speaker 1: Marie Dean Arrington. One more case I wanted to bring
Speaker 1: up was an interesting case that I had never heard
Speaker 1: of before, even though there is a movie based on it.
Speaker 1: And it is the case of Kiranjit lu Walia.
Speaker 2: And she was in.
Speaker 1: A movie that came out about two years before this
Speaker 1: episode aired, called Provoked, So I wonder if there was
Speaker 1: some borrowing. But Kiranjit Lualia is an Indian woman who
Speaker 1: she left India nineteen seventy seven to go see her
Speaker 1: sister in Canada. In seventy nine, she goes to the UK,
Speaker 1: where she marries her husband, Deepak, who's a man she's
Speaker 1: only met one time before. I read in other places
Speaker 1: that it was arranged. I don't know what you know,
Speaker 1: maybe it was, And she said soon into their marriage,
Speaker 1: he started turning violent against her habitually beat her, raped her,
Speaker 1: and deprived her of food. Of course, her family said
Speaker 1: it was her duty to stay in the marriage. They
Speaker 1: offered her no help when she went to them. She
Speaker 1: tried running away, but they found her and brought her back,
Speaker 1: and she had two sons with Deepoc and so in
Speaker 1: nineteen eighty nine, after a decade of abuse and after that,
Speaker 1: Deepak tried to break her ankles and burn her face
Speaker 1: with a hot iron. When he was asleep, she made
Speaker 1: this flammable mixture out of like gas and like sodium carbonate,
Speaker 1: like I don't know all these things that she knew about.
Speaker 1: Somehow poured it over his bed and set it on fire.
Speaker 1: And she said, quote, I had decided to show him
Speaker 1: how much it hurt. At times, I had tried to
Speaker 1: run away, but he would catch me and beat me
Speaker 1: even harder. I decided to burn his feet so he
Speaker 1: couldn't run after me. That's what she says. But she
Speaker 1: also said in other interviews. I did not mean to
Speaker 1: kill him. I just wanted to stop him from hurting me.
Speaker 1: And so he suffered burns over forty percent of his
Speaker 1: body and then he died ten days later in the
Speaker 1: hospital from complications of the burns and sepsis.
Speaker 2: So goodbye.
Speaker 1: Deepok Kiranjit, who could only speak broken English at the time,
Speaker 1: was arrested in charge with the murder and then she
Speaker 1: was convicted in December of nineteen eighty nine, and the
Speaker 1: prosecution argued that even though he had threatened her with
Speaker 1: a hot iron, she waited until he was asleep so
Speaker 1: that she had quote unquote time to cool off, and
Speaker 1: it was considered like premeditated since she waited for him
Speaker 1: to be asleep, and her lawyer, but it's like.
Speaker 2: Where were you the whole time where she was getting
Speaker 2: beaten for some reason. You can't take him away or
Speaker 2: punish him. But as soon as they're like, we kill
Speaker 2: a despicable person, Okay, well you're going away from murder forever,
Speaker 2: it's like, yeah, so fucked yeah, so fucked up, and like.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but that's like that was part of like Donnelly's
Speaker 1: argument with Lenny. It's like Lenny was arguing I was beaten,
Speaker 1: and they're like, yeah, but you waited for him to
Speaker 1: be asleep and then you shot him six times. That
Speaker 1: like hardly seems like self defense. That's their thing, But
Speaker 1: so it's borrowed in the in the show. But here's
Speaker 1: the thing. Her lawyer never brought up the violence at trial,
Speaker 1: never brought up that she had endured all this abuse,
Speaker 1: and they let the prosecution suggest that this happened because
Speaker 1: she she was jealous over Deepak having all these affairs.
Speaker 1: So of course the way that this is framed for
Speaker 1: the jury is crazy. And this is in the UK
Speaker 1: as well, so I don't know what their trial process
Speaker 1: is compared to ours. But she is found guilty of
Speaker 1: murder and sentenced to life in prison. Thankfully, in nineteen
Speaker 1: ninety two, her conviction is overturned on appeal on grounds
Speaker 1: of insufficient council since she, like since a, her lawyer
Speaker 1: never brought up any of the prior abuse and Karen
Speaker 1: Jet had not been made aware that she could plead
Speaker 1: guilty to manslaughter on the grounds of diminished responsibility, which
Speaker 1: I think is their version of like, you know, I
Speaker 1: guess it's not real. Well, we have diminished capacity so
Speaker 1: I guess it's that. So they also added that she
Speaker 1: was suffering from severe depression when she committed the crime.
Speaker 1: I wonder why, which her new council argued had altered
Speaker 1: her decision making abilities. A retrial was ordered and on
Speaker 1: September twenty fifth of nineteen ninety two, Karanjit was found
Speaker 1: guilty of manslaughter due to diminished responsibility and sentenced to
Speaker 1: three years and four months, which was the time she
Speaker 1: had already served, so she was immediately released. And her
Speaker 1: case has raised a lot of awareness about domestic violence,
Speaker 1: but specifically in families that are non English speaking immigrants
Speaker 1: in Western countries. And it helped change domestic abuse laws
Speaker 1: in the United Kingdom, which is great. And her case
Speaker 1: is known in British legal textbooks as R versus Ala Walia.
Speaker 1: And it changed the definition of the word provocation in
Speaker 1: cases of battered women, so like it instead of it
Speaker 1: reclassifies it as a manslaughter instead of a murder. And yeah,
Speaker 1: in two thousand and one, she got the she was
Speaker 1: at the first Asian Women Awards getting recognized for her
Speaker 1: quote unquote strength, personal achievements, determination and commitment end quote
Speaker 1: in bringing you know domestic violence issues to Light, and
Speaker 1: she wrote an autobiography with an a co author named
Speaker 1: Rahela Gupta called Circle of Light. And then in this
Speaker 1: movie called Provoked, we had Navin Andrew's Svu Alum playing
Speaker 1: Deepak and Ashwari a Rai, who's beautiful Indian actress played
Speaker 1: her role. And apparently during the screening of the movie
Speaker 1: at Kahan, Karanjit set next to the actress and was
Speaker 1: just like holding her hand and crying during like the
Speaker 1: really bad parts. So I think she was involved in
Speaker 1: the process of making the movie at least.
Speaker 2: A little bit.
Speaker 1: So I don't know we got that movie over here
Speaker 1: because it was kind of like a UK movie. But
Speaker 1: so a few pieces I feel like of Marie and
Speaker 1: a few pieces of the other case were folded into
Speaker 1: the Linny case, but nothing was exactly the same. But
Speaker 1: I thought that these were too interesting cases. I had
Speaker 1: never heard of either of them. I don't even know
Speaker 1: what to say. The world makes me so.
Speaker 2: Mad, I know, I know, But the good news is
Speaker 2: they're just so gung ho to charge a woman with
Speaker 2: a murder for killing an abusive man like I like,
Speaker 2: I see all the time stories on our news where
Speaker 2: it's like she got twenty years and all this stuff,
Speaker 2: and it's like, but none of you did anything during
Speaker 2: all the abuse times. Cool. Yeah, yeah, so thank you that.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: But the good news is we have an amazing guest.
Speaker 1: So that is the flip side, and so don't go anywhere.
Speaker 1: We will be back with that guest. Okay, guys, our
Speaker 1: guest today on a well. I would say if Lisa
Speaker 1: had made a top ten list of her guests that
Speaker 1: she wanted to have on this podcast, this one's on it.
Speaker 1: I also love this person book Lisa loves. And she
Speaker 1: is an iconic actor, a writer, a director. You know,
Speaker 1: we're from nineties classics, like but I'm a cheerleader, the faculty,
Speaker 1: and she's all that. She's worked extensively in television, starring
Speaker 1: in Veep and recently co creating the show Housebroken and
Speaker 1: High School. And she's worked on features. She wrote and
Speaker 1: directed Happiest Season and The Intervention. But you know we're
Speaker 1: today as the tragic character Mia Latimer. Guys, please enjoy
Speaker 1: our chat with Cleia Dubal. This is so, this is thrilling.
Speaker 1: You've been on our list since we started this podcast
Speaker 1: two years ago.
Speaker 2: We are thrilled to have you.
Speaker 3: That's so nice that you thought of me.
Speaker 2: Well, your episode is horrifying. It's really very exciting.
Speaker 1: I very haunting, and yet our us and our sick
Speaker 1: Freak listeners have been requesting it, asking for it.
Speaker 2: So here we are. But we I would love to
Speaker 2: rewind because I've been a fan since like The Faculty
Speaker 2: and but I'm a Cheerleader. Was one of the most
Speaker 2: important movies in my life. I would say, loved it
Speaker 2: so much. And we had Kathy Moriarty on.
Speaker 3: Oh Kathy's amazing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, she was so sad.
Speaker 1: Now we just need to get Natasha and it's like
Speaker 1: the whole Oh yeah, and she was an she's an
Speaker 1: s few alone.
Speaker 3: Oh I know that.
Speaker 2: But what I love is you've stayed good friends with
Speaker 2: like Melanie Linsky and Natasha Leone, and I feel like
Speaker 2: you work with your friends so often, and they were
Speaker 2: in your movie The Intervention, and I just like love
Speaker 2: that you keep tight friends for decades.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, absolutely, I mean we're family, you know.
Speaker 2: And then you were a judge on RuPaul's Drag Race
Speaker 2: and we're both fans, and that was did you enjoy
Speaker 2: yourself your time there?
Speaker 3: It was?
Speaker 4: It was more exciting than I could have even ever
Speaker 4: hoped for. It was a real dream. It lived, It
Speaker 4: surpassed what my expectation was.
Speaker 2: And do you watch this was incredible?
Speaker 3: Yes, of course.
Speaker 2: I remember when Jeff Goldbloom was like crying, he couldn't
Speaker 2: believe his eyes. What drag was? I really, yes, loved
Speaker 2: that moment.
Speaker 1: I actually wrote on that season, and that was all real.
Speaker 1: Jeff Goldbloom was really really gooped to be there, like
Speaker 1: he could not believe his eyes. And there was a
Speaker 1: longer conversation where he really wanted everyone to explain talking
Speaker 1: to him for a long time and they were like, Jeff,
Speaker 1: we need to wrap this up.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but it's not a good look.
Speaker 1: But let's talk about your SVU journey here. So okay,
Speaker 1: you do this episode like around Oh my god, I'm
Speaker 1: blanking out, like two thousand and nine or something like that,
Speaker 1: or twenty ten, probably yeah, season ten.
Speaker 3: Yes, I wanted to. I actually don't know what season
Speaker 3: or year it was.
Speaker 4: I don't really think very literally linear time.
Speaker 2: We're assuming it was an offer.
Speaker 1: It was, yes, And had you like, had you watched
Speaker 1: us v you were you like, oh, this will be cool,
Speaker 1: or were you like, I just have the week free
Speaker 1: let's just do this or you know, like what was
Speaker 1: your what was the vibe when you got the call?
Speaker 4: I had watched it a little bit, but I wasn't
Speaker 4: like a super fan or anything like that. But it
Speaker 4: was a real I mean, I love Marsha Harge. I thought,
Speaker 4: I think she's so cool, and it was you know.
Speaker 3: It feels like law and order.
Speaker 4: All of the law and orders really feel like a
Speaker 4: rite of passage for actors and like it I felt
Speaker 4: weirdly honored to be like it was like I was
Speaker 4: getting called up or something to get the call.
Speaker 3: So it was.
Speaker 4: And it's also just like it's such a great job.
Speaker 4: They're so they're such a wonderful group of people, and
Speaker 4: you know, you get to go to New York and
Speaker 4: hang out and be on this iconic.
Speaker 3: Show and it just feels like a real like there,
Speaker 3: why would you ever.
Speaker 2: Not do that? Yeah, how did you feel reading the scripts?
Speaker 2: Where you like, what were your initial feelings? Because it's
Speaker 2: so intense.
Speaker 4: It's so intense. I mean that it was intense and
Speaker 4: that it you know, it was such a it was
Speaker 4: such a cool episode and the twist and turns. Really
Speaker 4: it was not the show that I thought it was
Speaker 4: going to be you know, like when when my murder happened,
Speaker 4: I was like, well, what else is going to happen?
Speaker 4: Just reading the script, I was like, well what else
Speaker 4: could possibly where could this go from here?
Speaker 2: And it just kept going. Well, speaking of the murder,
Speaker 2: the can you explain the effects because the blood is
Speaker 2: gushing hard?
Speaker 3: Oh, the blood is gushing hard. It was like they put.
Speaker 4: A rig this rig on me under my clothes that
Speaker 4: it was almost like a harness that had uh it
Speaker 4: had like a little metal late that the knife the
Speaker 4: knife like hooked into it so that so and then
Speaker 4: they like cut a little part out of my clothes
Speaker 4: so it was like sticking out of me. So I
Speaker 4: could walk around, you know, like freely with a knife
Speaker 4: on me. And then they just like pumped blood out.
Speaker 4: I was I have never had that much fake blood
Speaker 4: on me, and it was I ended up having to
Speaker 4: take a shower in the in the brownstone that we
Speaker 4: were shooting in.
Speaker 3: I had to take a shower because I had so.
Speaker 4: I couldn't like they couldn't get the blood off. There
Speaker 4: was no point in trying to get the blood off
Speaker 4: because there was so much blood.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yu, Yeah, I was scary. Yeah, no, I
Speaker 2: mean it's physically scary.
Speaker 1: And then also the situation is so scary because like
Speaker 1: I remember, like your character is just so like when
Speaker 1: she's first telling the story, you're like you really believe her,
Speaker 1: and then when you find out that she's being abused,
Speaker 1: and that every time when she goes back to him,
Speaker 1: she's like, yeah, everything's fine. Like, I don't know, you
Speaker 1: did a really good job of I think capturing how
Speaker 1: the hitting complicated that is.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, but in Cool Things you play a rich person.
Speaker 2: Where was the word? Do you remember the wardrobe being
Speaker 2: like extra fancy? It looks pretty fancy.
Speaker 3: I don't remember.
Speaker 4: It's funny because when I think of this episode, I
Speaker 4: think of a wardrobe by warrant and at something else
Speaker 4: like that is the picture that I have in my
Speaker 4: head that I know that that is not right.
Speaker 3: I don't remember. Well, you know, I should have watched it,
Speaker 3: probably to remind myself of all.
Speaker 2: Do you watch yourself often?
Speaker 3: I tried. I don't. I don't really, I don't really.
Speaker 2: Was it hard when you're in stuff that you're directing
Speaker 2: to edit and stuff when you're in it, or not
Speaker 2: horrible horrible?
Speaker 4: Like it was like the first I mean the only
Speaker 4: time that I've ever directed myself, I was sort of fine.
Speaker 4: I was just like, whatever, I'm in the movie. I
Speaker 4: did this to myself and I wouldn't didn't really pay
Speaker 4: that much attention to myself in it. And then when
Speaker 4: we started to test screenings, and like, there were a
Speaker 4: couple of people who were like, oh, I thought that
Speaker 4: maybe you're like a little over at the top of
Speaker 4: that moment, I was like, well, I'm never gonna ask again.
Speaker 4: I shouldn't have done this like it. And then I
Speaker 4: turned on myself and I tried to cut myself out
Speaker 4: of the movie completely, and the editor was like, you
Speaker 4: can't do it. You just can't do it, like you
Speaker 4: just tone down that one moment. It was really excruciating.
Speaker 3: I hated it.
Speaker 2: I'll never do it again, never really image just acting.
Speaker 3: I mean never say never.
Speaker 4: But I I don't understand like that those actors who
Speaker 4: are who cast themselves as the lead in their own movies,
Speaker 4: and just like, how can you like that's I just
Speaker 4: don't think I would ever.
Speaker 3: Have the confidence to do that.
Speaker 2: Seems crazy. Now. Was the movie based on a couple
Speaker 2: in your life that you know and judged? No, it
Speaker 2: was wait, which movie are you talking about? Just The Intervention?
Speaker 2: The Intervention?
Speaker 4: Okay, No, it was really based on me and this
Speaker 4: time in my life where I was like a very
Speaker 4: pretty active alcoholic and was like not doing very well
Speaker 4: in any in any area of life, and yet I
Speaker 4: was I always would thought I knew what was best
Speaker 4: for everyone else because I was just like not paying
Speaker 4: attention to my own life. I was really just like, well,
Speaker 4: why is that person doing this? They should be doing this.
Speaker 4: I was like real like armchair quarterback for everyone else's lives.
Speaker 4: And then I had this like, I mean it was
Speaker 4: really getting sober. I got so like I had already
Speaker 4: written the movie, a draft of the movie, and as
Speaker 4: I was sort of like starting to wrestle with this
Speaker 4: idea of like maybe I shouldn't be drinking anymore.
Speaker 3: And then it really kind of.
Speaker 4: Evolved more once I got sober, and then was like, oh,
Speaker 4: this is like this is this is me thinking that
Speaker 4: like avoiding my own problems and thinking that I know
Speaker 4: what's best for everybody else and focusing on that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I feel like I've just been read fully, but
Speaker 2: I feel I really to that. Yeah. I actually was
Speaker 2: grabbing this wine glass as you said, and I was like, oh,
Speaker 2: I'll put it right right back. Okay, back to se
Speaker 2: you was your TV husband normal? Like what was his
Speaker 2: vibe of, Oh yeah.
Speaker 3: Totally nice guys so nice?
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's I always feel bad for the guys who
Speaker 4: have to play the really bad guys, because yeah, I
Speaker 4: feel like they have then are like overcomment sating to
Speaker 4: be like, I'm not really like this.
Speaker 3: I'm actually a pretty nice guy. You know, I have
Speaker 3: a dog.
Speaker 1: We talked to so many of them and they're all like, yeah,
Speaker 1: people come up to us on the subway and.
Speaker 2: Are like you can't hit women or whatever, and they're like,
Speaker 2: you don't. We're not, that's not who we are.
Speaker 4: So people, Yeah, the audiences really take it seriously.
Speaker 3: I mean, you can hit women. That's true.
Speaker 2: That's true. That's true, and he should know that.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: But when you so, speaking of people coming up to you,
Speaker 1: what do you get when people come up to you
Speaker 1: for the most do you find.
Speaker 4: I mean it's it's really like kind of a I
Speaker 4: don't know if there's just one. I feel like it's
Speaker 4: but I'm a cheerleader. The faculty and veep.
Speaker 2: Yeah, people like what they watch.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we're huge beep, like, did you get to work
Speaker 1: with Maloney on Veep? No?
Speaker 3: But his character on VIEP was so funny.
Speaker 1: I'm just wondering because in this SVU you're so you
Speaker 1: do so much one on one with Marishka, But I
Speaker 1: don't think Christopher Maloney is even in it.
Speaker 2: Is he like on a break this episode? Like I yeah,
Speaker 2: and then you?
Speaker 1: And then I was wondering, Oh wow, that would be
Speaker 1: so fun if she actually did get some Maloney FaceTime
Speaker 1: at VIEP.
Speaker 2: But I guess not.
Speaker 1: And your character was so interesting because I had seen
Speaker 1: you in a lot of things, but I had never
Speaker 1: seen you be somebody like so stoic and like so serious.
Speaker 2: This is a cool departure.
Speaker 3: It was a really fun It was a fun character.
Speaker 4: Hard to stay so blank when everyone else is so funny,
Speaker 4: but I figured out how to slip into his own.
Speaker 2: Yeah. It was like a funny joke in itself. Just
Speaker 2: you existing was like such a fuck you to the VEEP.
Speaker 2: Oh this I sometimes I asked way two specific questions
Speaker 2: and then I feel bad, but nurse a moment well,
Speaker 2: because sometimes we'll talk to people and they're like that
Speaker 2: was fifteen years ago. I don't know why you'd think
Speaker 2: I'd remember that audition and I'm like, well, we're worried
Speaker 2: about it. But there was a line read where she
Speaker 2: was explaining what has to happen to you to like
Speaker 2: leave this man, and when they brought up the shelter,
Speaker 2: you were like like a homeless person. And I just
Speaker 2: really liked that line read see you too.
Speaker 3: I know, well I should have watched it. I should
Speaker 3: have watched it. Is it a scene with me and
Speaker 3: with the three ladies?
Speaker 1: I think it's it's you and Marishka, and I think
Speaker 1: maybe the neighbor.
Speaker 2: But well, how was it like working with Brenda Blevin?
Speaker 3: It was great? It was really cool.
Speaker 1: She's like a pretty Yeah, she's like a legendary lady.
Speaker 4: It was because there was a scene with the three
Speaker 4: It's kind of coming back to me now. There was
Speaker 4: a scene with the three of us right where we're
Speaker 4: all talking about what I'm going to do.
Speaker 1: And You're like remember reveal like how you you grew
Speaker 1: up poor and like you know, what are you supposed
Speaker 1: to do now?
Speaker 4: And yeah, I think that I maybe it was having
Speaker 4: a hard time with that scene. I'm having a memory
Speaker 4: where maybe I was struggling a little bit with that scene.
Speaker 4: It's always every job I do, there's always one scene
Speaker 4: that undoes me.
Speaker 3: And I think that was that. I think that's the one.
Speaker 2: I don't know why, like all the scenes.
Speaker 4: No, No, it's like a it's a very weird, random
Speaker 4: thing that happens where it's just like, well I don't
Speaker 4: know how.
Speaker 2: To do the scene, and so what you do? You
Speaker 2: nailed it.
Speaker 3: You just keep going. You just keep going, and then
Speaker 3: you trust the director. You just go. You're like, is
Speaker 3: this what you want? Doing the thing that you want?
Speaker 4: Like, actors have no idea what like, they cannot ever
Speaker 4: know how they're coming across.
Speaker 3: So like that's when you really that's why.
Speaker 4: I mean some actors don't need it, but like some
Speaker 4: really rely on the director to help them know if
Speaker 4: they're on the right track.
Speaker 3: And I am one of those.
Speaker 2: Actors for sure. Yeah, which is why.
Speaker 4: Working with myself as a director was a nightmare. Everything
Speaker 4: I did, I was like, that sucks.
Speaker 3: You shouldn't have done it like that.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I've done like small acting parts and like I did
Speaker 1: one where I just kept asking the director.
Speaker 2: I was like, is this it? Is this what you want?
Speaker 1: Speaking of they had me in like full of Lane
Speaker 1: Venis's hair from like because it was a flashback to
Speaker 1: the late ladies and like or early nineties, and I
Speaker 1: was like, is am I doing the right thing? And
Speaker 1: he just kept going yeah, whatever, and I was like, no,
Speaker 1: I need you to tell me.
Speaker 3: Yeah, So I mean, yeah, whatever is not the response.
Speaker 2: Yeah that is like yeah, yeah, you're doing it. And
Speaker 2: I was like, it doesn't really I don't believe you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe that's on me, So we are so obviously
Speaker 1: you're sorry. I was just gonna say, like, obviously, your
Speaker 1: like experience as an actor informs your experience as a director.
Speaker 1: You do, you just like take all that with you.
Speaker 1: So when actors are like leaning on you, you know what
Speaker 1: that's how important that is, And like.
Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, you know. It's also that every actor is different.
Speaker 4: You know, there's no sort of like you know, blanket
Speaker 4: direction that you can give to every single person on
Speaker 4: the cast, Like everybody's going to need something different and.
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, I just worked with one director who's like, what,
Speaker 2: what do you need? And I said positive reinforcement. But
Speaker 2: then it sucks me up because I didn't believe any
Speaker 2: of the compliments because I fully asked for them, and
Speaker 2: so that kind of fucked me up in my head.
Speaker 2: But we also talked to a lot of actors where
Speaker 2: that's for you, and they say sometimes an offer is
Speaker 2: harder than an audition because an audition at least informs
Speaker 2: like someone liked something, and then when they just give
Speaker 2: it to your kind of yeah just yeah five blind.
Speaker 4: You feel like you're auditioning on the spot and they
Speaker 4: can't fire you right where you're just like, well, we're
Speaker 4: stuck with me.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm tired.
Speaker 1: Yeah, offers are weird, but like and everybody, I mean,
Speaker 1: what we've heard also is that Marishka is very supportive
Speaker 1: of people. Like when you got do you remember doing
Speaker 1: these scenes with her that were like so like heartbreak
Speaker 1: and like she's like, I mean her character sleeps in
Speaker 1: a in a hallway to protect you.
Speaker 2: She's so invested, Like yeah, she's a great detection.
Speaker 4: Even after we've after we finished, I want to say, like,
Speaker 4: I think that she called me a couple of times
Speaker 4: after I after we finished, I know that she called
Speaker 4: me when that like she saw the episode and she
Speaker 4: said she was like, you did such a good job.
Speaker 4: The episode's great, like right, and then we just like
Speaker 4: chit chatted a little bit, and then I feel like
Speaker 4: she saw me and something else and she called me.
Speaker 2: And she has your number.
Speaker 3: Maybe maybe she only called maybe she only called me once.
Speaker 3: I don't remember.
Speaker 2: It is Christmas time, how do you feel? Happiest season?
Speaker 2: Probably being in people like a holiday movie like where
Speaker 2: I'm doing Christmas? That was on our list of what
Speaker 2: we're definitely watching with the family.
Speaker 1: Stone But was that out last Christmas or two Christmases ago?
Speaker 3: Two Christmases ago? Okay, I was like it was funny, funny,
Speaker 3: It was funny, yeah.
Speaker 1: Because it was like not that I think anybody wanted
Speaker 1: the pandemic to happen, but a great thing for your
Speaker 1: movie because I feel like everybody watched it like it
Speaker 1: was a real home.
Speaker 4: And like, yeah, it was you know that the timing,
Speaker 4: the timing was good for I mean just that, I
Speaker 4: mean not the timing was good. That it's great that
Speaker 4: everybody was stuck inside because of a global pandemic where
Speaker 4: not right people died, but it was you know, I
Speaker 4: think that a good time for that movie to come out,
Speaker 4: for sure, because it was so the holidays were so weird, yeah,
Speaker 4: to say the least.
Speaker 1: And you know, no, it was fun because it was
Speaker 1: like one of those movies that like a bunch of
Speaker 1: my friends, we were all just like everybody was just
Speaker 1: texting being like have you watched that yet?
Speaker 2: You know, like it was like a water.
Speaker 1: Cooler movie where we were in like there was no
Speaker 1: water cooler to be found, you know, because we were
Speaker 1: all trapped.
Speaker 2: It's like a new classic, because I feel like you
Speaker 2: have either like Hallmark where it's like cheesy and white,
Speaker 2: like something specific, and then only like a few really
Speaker 2: good holiday movies, and I feel like it was one
Speaker 2: of them.
Speaker 3: Thank you so much.
Speaker 4: It really, I'm so happy that I got to make
Speaker 4: that movie at all. I really it was really really
Speaker 4: special and so cool that that.
Speaker 3: People are still watching it.
Speaker 4: Like Christmas movies become a part of your life in
Speaker 4: a way that other movies don't, and that was like
Speaker 4: the fact that we were able to make a movie
Speaker 4: that is doing that is just really It's so cool.
Speaker 1: And then you are now writing on stuff you are directing,
Speaker 1: like what's the what are you like leaning towards or
Speaker 1: are you trying to just be a jack of all
Speaker 1: trades or are you just like I'm going to put
Speaker 1: acting a little bit on the back burner. While I
Speaker 1: direct for a while or what's your Yeah.
Speaker 3: I mean, I really love writing and directing.
Speaker 4: I find it to be so fulfilling in a way
Speaker 4: that is just and it's also new, you know, I
Speaker 4: think acting is I've been doing it since I was eighteen,
Speaker 4: and I do.
Speaker 3: Really love it.
Speaker 4: But I think before I wanted to act, I wanted
Speaker 4: to write. I've always loved writing, and so to be
Speaker 4: able to go back to that and be able to
Speaker 4: make things and you know, tell the stories that I
Speaker 4: want to tell and higher actors that I really love
Speaker 4: and work with cruise like in a more intimate way,
Speaker 4: like it's really I don't know, I'm just find I'm
Speaker 4: just very inspired by it right now. So it is
Speaker 4: and it's also so time consuming that you can't really
Speaker 4: do anything else, you know that I have a show
Speaker 4: right now that that just came out, and we're work
Speaker 4: we have we're not picked up for a second season,
Speaker 4: but we have a we're doing a mini room and.
Speaker 3: It's just it's time.
Speaker 4: It takes forever, like I can imagine, you know, I
Speaker 4: can't imagine. I mean I have been writing and acting
Speaker 4: at the same time, and it's just but it's it's
Speaker 4: harder to bounce back and forth, you know, because I
Speaker 4: like getting sort of lost in the process of writing
Speaker 4: and then once once you're in production, forget it, like
Speaker 4: you can't leave.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, it's wild. I feel like every time I
Speaker 2: want to set, I'm newly surprised, like how long everyone's
Speaker 2: there and how hard people work. I'm always just like, geez,
Speaker 2: you guys are like really putting in all the hours. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and it always surprises me. And I don't know why.
Speaker 2: I just don't know how people have a life. But
Speaker 2: going back to back in the day, you kind of
Speaker 2: had a really iconic hairdo and the faculty but I'm
Speaker 2: a cheerleader. Do you feel like was that you coming
Speaker 2: into it or did they make you cut your hair?
Speaker 2: I feel like you're pre posh spice in terms of
Speaker 2: that fun hairdo.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that no, that was my That was me. That
Speaker 3: was a haircut that I had in my real life. Yeah.
Speaker 4: And the reason and my hair is like a little
Speaker 4: bit curly, So that's why my hair is always so
Speaker 4: greasy because I would I didn't know how to sty
Speaker 4: I didn't know how to make my hair straight, so
Speaker 4: I would just put a bunch of shit in my
Speaker 4: hair to like kill the wave.
Speaker 1: Basically, Oh, it looks very straight and silky in your
Speaker 1: SVU episode.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I mean if I have a professional.
Speaker 1: If someone does a professional but I do not have
Speaker 1: those skills.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, but me trying.
Speaker 4: To blow dry my own hair even now is really embarrassing.
Speaker 2: That's embarrassing.
Speaker 4: And it's only like part of my hair will be
Speaker 4: straight in the back of my head will still be
Speaker 4: like really curly, and.
Speaker 3: That's not a good Yeah.
Speaker 1: I have crazy curly hair and it's been a lifelong
Speaker 1: struggle to tame it and deal with it. But well,
Speaker 1: I'm also looking at your IMDb here at this this
Speaker 1: animated show called Housebroken that has like all these fun
Speaker 1: people in it, like Maria Bamford is like a friend
Speaker 1: of mine through stand up and then you've got like
Speaker 1: all these people like Lisa Kudrou and like, what this
Speaker 1: is amazing and this is your your this is a no,
Speaker 1: you're a creator a creator of this too.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 4: I created with two of the writers from uh VI,
Speaker 4: Gabby Allen and Jen Crittenden, and they I just loved
Speaker 4: them so much, and we talked about we were just
Speaker 4: talking about working on something else together and I had
Speaker 4: this idea and I told it to them and they
Speaker 4: immediately had an idea that made the idea better, and
Speaker 4: it evolved into and then we all started talking about
Speaker 4: it together and it evolved into the show.
Speaker 3: And it's just it's so much fun.
Speaker 4: And the cast is out of control and.
Speaker 2: Yeah actually who who Yeah, And.
Speaker 4: We have two episode holiday episodes airing this Sunday because
Speaker 4: we've been off the air since last summer, and then
Speaker 4: we have these episodes airing, and then we have a
Speaker 4: full season airing again next summer.
Speaker 3: But it's really a blast. It's such a funny show.
Speaker 4: And I'd always wanted to do animation before I never
Speaker 4: had and so it's been really I've learned a lot
Speaker 4: and really.
Speaker 2: I really love it. Yeah, animation is such a different thing.
Speaker 1: It seems like it seems like for writing, it's so
Speaker 1: fun because you can really write anything to happen.
Speaker 2: You don't have to worry about like budget or whatever.
Speaker 1: But then you know, just like thinking about how visually
Speaker 1: jokes are going to land.
Speaker 2: It's like it's just a totally different thing.
Speaker 4: Yeah, you know is and you all, I think because
Speaker 4: I also like I have such a like practical brain
Speaker 4: when I'm writing live action that it's like, okay, well
Speaker 4: you're not gonna be able to do.
Speaker 3: Have like explode a house like right, But.
Speaker 4: In animation you can literally do anything and create anything.
Speaker 4: And like once I sort of got into that, like
Speaker 4: no sort of no holds barred imagination. It really unlocked
Speaker 4: something and just it's so fun.
Speaker 2: Well it's also cute, like you get to be a
Speaker 2: cute thing, you know, like a car. You get to
Speaker 2: be a little corky.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and now I.
Speaker 3: Love Corki's an animal that I never thought twice about.
Speaker 2: But really they're so cute. They're so cute that they
Speaker 2: have no one told me.
Speaker 1: They have like butts that look like people butts, Like
Speaker 1: I just see them all barts my kids into baby
Speaker 1: animal Instagram, so I see a lot of corky butts
Speaker 1: floating in water anyway.
Speaker 2: Smiling their load of the ground. But they're fluffy. They're
Speaker 2: just really kind of perfect. Would you get it tattooed
Speaker 2: on yourself?
Speaker 3: You feel uh no, no, no, no, I don't. I'm
Speaker 3: not going to get any more tattoos.
Speaker 2: I don't think that's like my dream to be a
Speaker 2: cartoon character. So then I can get it tattooed and then.
Speaker 3: You could get my character tattoos on you.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a great idea. I would get a I
Speaker 2: have a lot of quirgi merch, to be honest, if
Speaker 2: I'm being fully regular to.
Speaker 4: Well, you should watch the watch the watch House Pocus
Speaker 4: see this little corky in action.
Speaker 1: Well, just to like close out the SVU questioning like
Speaker 1: do you have any like do you have any other
Speaker 1: like memories from doing it or like little stories or
Speaker 1: anything you think our listeners would like be excited about.
Speaker 4: I mean it was really just the getting the call
Speaker 4: from Marishka and like working with her and then having
Speaker 4: her really like take an interest and be so genuine
Speaker 4: and it really I don't know. I whenever there's someone
Speaker 4: like that out there and you work with them and
Speaker 4: they they understand what their position can do, and like
Speaker 4: some people use to like scare people or you know,
Speaker 4: make people feel bad, and then other people really use
Speaker 4: it to like elevate the people around them, and she
Speaker 4: is really someone who did that, and it was just
Speaker 4: it really meant so much to me because as an actor,
Speaker 4: you can really especially as a guest star on a
Speaker 4: television show, you can feel so insignificant because in some
Speaker 4: ways you are because you are. You're just like in
Speaker 4: Network TV, if you're a guest star in one episode,
Speaker 4: like they're just going to do it again twenty.
Speaker 3: Twenty one more times.
Speaker 4: So yeah, other people and you're you know, you can
Speaker 4: really just feel disposable and and it just it really
Speaker 4: just felt like her the way she.
Speaker 3: Treated me and everyone that I know who's been on it.
Speaker 4: I don't know, it's really it's really important and really
Speaker 4: like turn something that could that could be very forgettable
Speaker 4: into something really meaningful.
Speaker 1: Yeah, beautiful, and you didn't really get like it was. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you're really great in the episode. Have you died on
Speaker 1: screen before? Oh?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I've done. Oh I've done a lot.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, Oh okay. Well, not only are you friends
Speaker 2: with like Natasha Leone and Melanielensku you work with a lot,
Speaker 2: but like high school Teagan and Sarah, I feel like
Speaker 2: you've worked with them and the like. On social media,
Speaker 2: I feel like everyone that I followed was talking about
Speaker 2: high school.
Speaker 3: So oh really, yes, that's nice to hear.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well we're really excited. And will you wait? Will
Speaker 2: you tell me what it's on? What is it on?
Speaker 2: Where do I watch High School.
Speaker 4: High School is on It's on Amazon Freebee, which is
Speaker 4: its own app, but then you can also watch it
Speaker 4: on Prime.
Speaker 3: Oh, so Amazon gives you a couple of ways.
Speaker 4: To watch it, and I don't know if that makes
Speaker 4: it more or less confusing, but you can definitely find it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because Freebie's like their free platforms, so more people
Speaker 1: can probably get to it.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yeah, and it's yeah, it's based on Teagan
Speaker 4: and Sarah's memoir about their years in high school and
Speaker 4: sort of coming of age and becoming musicians and you know,
Speaker 4: discovering their sexuality.
Speaker 3: And it's really I loved.
Speaker 4: Their books so much, and as soon as I read it,
Speaker 4: I called Teagan and just said, you please let me
Speaker 4: make this into a television show. And it's been really
Speaker 4: I'm I've really loved the experience of making it. And
Speaker 4: but I'm not really on social media very much, so
Speaker 4: I haven't seen any of that, but I'm happy that
Speaker 4: people are talking about it.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Wait, was it fun to cast your friends as
Speaker 2: little kids or like teens? Like, was that the casting fun?
Speaker 3: It was?
Speaker 4: Yeah, it was fun, but it was also just like
Speaker 4: what we were looking for was insane, you know, like
Speaker 4: that we had to find twin girls that were the
Speaker 4: right age, who were queer, just funs like uh, I like,
Speaker 4: we were insane, and I thought we were going to
Speaker 4: have to pull like an orphan black type situation with
Speaker 4: just one actor, but it Teagan was on TikTok and
Speaker 4: saw one of the twins in a video and then
Speaker 4: discover that she had a twin sister and then reached
Speaker 4: out to them and they auditioned, and it was like
Speaker 4: a very scary thing to do to cast them because
Speaker 4: they were just you know, Pete, they were not actors.
Speaker 4: They were working in pizza restaurants in Fresno and just
Speaker 4: got We just picked them up out of their lives
Speaker 4: and brought them and cast them as the leads out
Speaker 4: of television show. Was such an insane thing to do,
Speaker 4: but they worked so hard. Raley in season who played
Speaker 4: Taken in Sarah and did such an incredible job, And
Speaker 4: it was really just it felt like this very.
Speaker 3: Like fate that they appeared. It really fell fell into
Speaker 3: our laps.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, TikTok. I mean you just like changed these
Speaker 2: twins lives.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and TikTok. Give TikTok a little bit of a pass.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't think people are talking about TikTok enough.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and they're not giving tik took enough credit, you know,
Speaker 1: like need to be algorithm.
Speaker 3: The algorithm is getting something right.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So they were looking for teen twins and a team
Speaker 1: twin was delivered. There they have they have the most
Speaker 1: scary algorithm. But that is really cool. Okay, I'm going
Speaker 1: to check that out high school on free v on
Speaker 1: is it called freev Yeah, Amazon, Amazon freeby and Amazon
Speaker 1: Prime amazing. Yeah, all the Amazon places, all the Amazons.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Perfect, you're really crushing it. You made the pivot
Speaker 2: to writing directing so good.
Speaker 4: I mean, I I was fortunate enough to work with
Speaker 4: so many brilliant writers and directors that I learned so
Speaker 4: much from. And it's you know, it's really just paying
Speaker 4: attention to other people doing it well. And yeah, keeping
Speaker 4: my eyes open and my mouth shut.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because you've been in the business for so long,
Speaker 1: it's like, I'm sure you picked up stuff that you
Speaker 1: should use and stuff.
Speaker 2: That you would not you would never want to use. Absolutely.
Speaker 4: Yeah. Working with the with with directors who were not
Speaker 4: the greatest actually taught me just as much.
Speaker 3: Yeah, don't do that.
Speaker 4: This is this is a great way to get an
Speaker 4: actor to turn on you in a scene.
Speaker 3: Don't do that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, well I'm so excited to hear. I'm
Speaker 1: so excited to keep an eye out for stuff you
Speaker 1: have coming up.
Speaker 2: And yeah, and I'll be watching the Happiest Season this Christmas.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're going to have like a new Christmas classic
Speaker 1: watch every year.
Speaker 2: That's what we're doing.
Speaker 3: That makes me really happy. Thank you for watching it.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Wow, she is so accomplished.
Speaker 1: God, doing so many things like acting, directing, the writing,
Speaker 1: the animation live action movies.
Speaker 2: I know so much, and also living our dream. I mean,
Speaker 2: you were there, but being a judge on Drag Race,
Speaker 2: being able to be in the vibe with that crew
Speaker 2: is pretty incredible. And you know she put drag queens
Speaker 2: in her The Happiest Season as well, Deayla and Jenks
Speaker 2: and Dela Baby. Well they are the Christmas Queen.
Speaker 1: I mean, you gots to put them in your movie
Speaker 1: if you're doing a Christmas movie. They are Jinxon day
Speaker 1: Law's Christmas. We should go see that live sometime. That'd
Speaker 1: be so fun.
Speaker 2: I of course, no, it was really cool. This podcast
Speaker 2: is so fun to do for many reasons, but it
Speaker 2: is also like sometimes I'm like, are you fucking kidding me?
Speaker 2: Like to me and talk to a person that I've
Speaker 2: been following their work for decades, does it's just like, yeah,
Speaker 2: good to be true. I can't believe it and you
Speaker 2: still haven't seen. But I'm a cheerleader. We got to
Speaker 2: watch that. I know, I gotta watch that. I gotta
Speaker 2: watch it. But cause and you have Melanie Lynsky, you
Speaker 2: have so many stars that you still love today and
Speaker 2: it's actual Leon like you love RuPaul Mari, like we
Speaker 2: love these people. So it seems like it's gonna be
Speaker 2: right up my alley and I'm gonna really love it.
Speaker 2: So I'm excited to watch it. I so loved knowing
Speaker 2: that the blood was really squirting JK. Of course we
Speaker 2: saw it. She I love her being like there was
Speaker 2: so much blood, poor my body man that she was
Speaker 2: like walking around set with a knife. I really love
Speaker 2: seeing photos of people on set and like Victorian outfits
Speaker 2: drinking a diet coke? Have you seen that, like Kristen
Speaker 2: Dunst and Marie and Twinette and stuff.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Like famously, somebody left a Starbucks cup on a
Speaker 1: table in an episode of Game of Thrones. So there's
Speaker 1: like a Starbucks cup in the final cut.
Speaker 2: But well, you know, I had to wear a strap
Speaker 2: on for pause with Samjay and and then that was
Speaker 2: the day that she got everyone in an ice cream
Speaker 2: truck as a thank you, and so we went and
Speaker 2: got our ice creams with our full strap ons on.
Speaker 2: Like there was just like seven women with dicks on
Speaker 2: walking around set. Where did that come from? Walking around
Speaker 2: set with like the item like bring a Maria and
Speaker 2: twinette cigarettes We were talking about like the diet coke
Speaker 2: of it all, but then it's a full strap on.
Speaker 2: Well know, her walking around with a knife and we
Speaker 2: were walking around with dick.
Speaker 1: Yes, well we've also gotten to talk to two people
Speaker 1: that had to wear that knife breastplate thing because we
Speaker 1: talked to Mike Doyle about the same fucking thing. And
Speaker 1: it's wild that oh my god, like that scene. This
Speaker 1: episode is really really like connting and tough because it
Speaker 1: does really show domestic violence. I feel like in a
Speaker 1: way that a lot of people, I mean, I don't
Speaker 1: know that maybe we haven't seen on network television in
Speaker 1: such a violent way.
Speaker 2: And it was it's just like the actual hardships and
Speaker 2: realities of escaping abuse are complicated as fuck, and it's
Speaker 2: a pet peeve of I bet you as what, Like
Speaker 2: when people make it so simple and have no empathy
Speaker 2: or understanding, when people are like why invents? And even
Speaker 2: did this here? Like why didn't you leave? Why didn't
Speaker 2: you do that? What about this? Why do you need
Speaker 2: an abortion? Like people making judgments and questions about people's
Speaker 2: lives that are like so complicated and difficult, yes, and
Speaker 2: being so black and white about stuff that that isn't
Speaker 2: like she has no money, no education, nothing, no family, right.
Speaker 1: And she just an escape if he hadn't killed her,
Speaker 1: he's trying to now saddle her with his children, so
Speaker 1: now she really can't leave, you know what I mean? Like,
Speaker 1: this is why I feel like the Plan B storyline
Speaker 1: up top, we hated that pharmacist, but also like it
Speaker 1: just highlights the importance of reproductive rights for women, because
Speaker 1: pregnancy and children and a lot of for a lot
Speaker 1: of women are like the final nail in the fucking
Speaker 1: coffin when you're with an abusive guy.
Speaker 2: It makes it much harder to leave, you know. Yeah,
Speaker 2: And you know Lenny leaving living with this trauma for
Speaker 2: so long, and how laws we're not protective of women
Speaker 2: at all, and we still have to fight for laws
Speaker 2: to protect women and abuse victims of all genders. And
Speaker 2: it's just I'm grateful for us to st view and
Speaker 2: I feel like a lot of people that should be
Speaker 2: watching it probably aren't. But it's just like it gives
Speaker 2: so much understanding to things that even you know, we
Speaker 2: work so hard to understand everything, and this this episode
Speaker 2: is just so clear in its messaging I feel. And
Speaker 2: we have Judith Light realizing her mistakes and seeing her
Speaker 2: make a mistaken come to terms with it, the judges.
Speaker 2: It's also like a great female actress episode, you.
Speaker 1: Know, totally Yeah, Donnelly Hatter moment, we had Clia, we
Speaker 1: had Brenda Blethin and other you know icons, So this
Speaker 1: was a good one. And yeah, along those same lines there,
Speaker 1: we'll get into our what would Sister Peg Do, which
Speaker 1: is our weekly segment where we try to point you
Speaker 1: guys to an organization, a resource, website, article, book, something
Speaker 1: that will give you more info and what we talked
Speaker 1: about in today's episode, And because domestic violent shelters are
Speaker 1: so uh, you know, geographically linked, I wanted to highlight
Speaker 1: the website Domesticshelters dot org. They're the first and largest
Speaker 1: online and mobile searchable directory of domestic violent shelters, so
Speaker 1: you don't have to look up like you could just
Speaker 1: go to domestic shelters dot org and that will tell
Speaker 1: you what's the closest near you and or near a
Speaker 1: friend or somewhere else, so you can like look it's
Speaker 1: like Google of domestic shelters, and it's the US and Canada,
Speaker 1: and they are really helpful resource for people experiencing and
Speaker 1: working to end domestic violence. If you'd like more info,
Speaker 1: it's domesticshelters dot org and as always will be saved
Speaker 1: as a story in our WWSPD highlight on our Instagram,
Speaker 1: which is that's messed up pod.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much. And if you know, maybe if
Speaker 2: your New year's resolution is to spring clean or whatever. Like,
Speaker 2: shelters are also a great place to drop off clothing,
Speaker 2: beauty supplies, tampons, hair products, things for you know, toys
Speaker 2: for kids, outfits so women can go to job interviews.
Speaker 2: Like shelters are a really great place to send your
Speaker 2: resources to help local people that need help in your neighborhood.
Speaker 2: So on top of just finding shelters like it's just
Speaker 2: a great place to give yestra. Maybe you want a
Speaker 2: lifetime supply of tampons, I got a place for you
Speaker 2: to give them. And then next week we'll be doing
Speaker 2: Home Invasions Season thirteen, episode fourteen. Yeah, it's a good one.
Speaker 2: I don't know to tell you. We got Peacock. Oh
Speaker 2: my god, the person who made Kara hat at mia Hattan,
Speaker 2: Sacramento too and made it peacock colors because people are
Speaker 2: obsessed with to say Peacock and Hulu and all that
Speaker 2: good stuff. And happy fucking New Year, and we'll see
Speaker 2: you next week. That's Messed Up as an exactly right production.
Speaker 1: If you have compliments you'd like to give us or
Speaker 1: episodes you'd like us to cover, shoot us an email
Speaker 1: it That's messed uppod at gmail dot com.
Speaker 2: Follow the podcast on Instagram at That's Messed Up Pod
Speaker 2: and on Twitter at messed Up Pod, and follow us
Speaker 2: personally at Kara Klank and at glitter Cheese.
Speaker 1: As always, please see our show notes for sources and
Speaker 1: more information.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much to our producer Kac O'Brien, and to.
Speaker 1: Our mixer John Bradley and our guest booker Patrick Cottner
Speaker 1: and to Henry Kaperski for our themes and Carly Jean
Speaker 1: Andrews for our artwork. Thank you to our executive producers
Speaker 1: Georgia Hardstar, Karen Kilgarriff, Daniel Kramer, and everybody at Exactly
Speaker 1: Right Media
Speaker 2: Dun Dunn