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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news.

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Speaker 2: We zero in specifically on the connection between Washington and

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Speaker 2: the music industry regulation. And I'll point you no further

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Speaker 2: than an op ed in the Washington Post the headline Congress,

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Speaker 2: I have a plea for you. It was written by

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Speaker 2: Gene Simmons. Yes, that Gene Simmons, who was on stage

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Speaker 2: at the Kennedy Center last weekend the Kennedy Center Awards.

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Speaker 2: You saw him in the Oval Office with Donald Trump,

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Speaker 2: and you also saw him testifying on Capitol Hill yesterday

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Speaker 2: before the Judiciary Committee for something called the AMFA Act.

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Speaker 2: This is about music fairness royalties. Listen to what he said.

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Speaker 3: How do we dare come in second to Russia, an

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Speaker 3: alleged country led by a despot, when they do a

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Speaker 3: better job of paying our king of rock and roll,

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Speaker 3: And we're gonna stand by and not pay today's artists

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Speaker 3: and future artists because let's face it, our children are

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Speaker 3: tomorrow's stars. It got to change this now for our

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Speaker 3: children and our children's children. And I know you will.

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Speaker 3: The President will sign this once all you guys respectfully

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Speaker 3: get your act together and put this across the board.

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Speaker 3: Let's do the right thing. God bless America.

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Speaker 2: He's talking about the American Music Fairness Acts, proposed legislation

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Speaker 2: that may or may not get a floor vote, but

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Speaker 2: of course, with the support of the President, that would

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Speaker 2: go a long way. It's got the support of Gene Simmons,

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Speaker 2: and he's with us right now in studio. You spent

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Speaker 2: the week in Washington. Thanks for making us part of it.

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Speaker 3: Well, it's my pleasure and people are shocked. I'll try

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Speaker 3: to encapsulate what all this is for. I know that's

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Speaker 3: a big word, like gymnasium. Look, I don't care what

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Speaker 3: kind of music you listen to, but the American music,

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Speaker 3: let's just stop at that point. American music means we create,

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Speaker 3: then invented the music of planet Earth. Rock and roll, blues, jazz,

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Speaker 3: hip hop, country and Western all invented and created here.

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Speaker 3: Our stars are the stars of planet Earth. You can

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Speaker 3: go to Africa and hear you ain't nothing, but it

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Speaker 3: no matter where you go. Every Christmas, everywhere around the world,

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Speaker 3: people listen to Bing Crosby I'm Dreaming of a White Christmas,

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Speaker 3: written by Irving Berlin. The astonishing, stunning, and shameful fact

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Speaker 3: is that no matter who you hear on AM and

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Speaker 3: FM radio. They're getting zero pennies for the airplay. So

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Speaker 3: let's play a game. Who's your favorite recording artists?

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Speaker 1: Kiss?

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Speaker 3: No, come on, somebody from the past.

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Speaker 1: There we go. Jimmy Hendrix.

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Speaker 3: Jimmy Hendrix. Jimmy Hendrix has never in his entire career

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Speaker 3: or now ever gotten paid a single penny when his

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Speaker 3: music is played on AM and FM radio. The stunning

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Speaker 3: fact is that the Russians and some other countries actually

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Speaker 3: do pay performing artists on radio land radio, AMFM, and

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Speaker 3: Americans do not. And this has got to change and

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Speaker 3: should change. Look, I make a living, and people of

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Speaker 3: my age, and you know who've climbed the mountain, clawed

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Speaker 3: and scratched their way to the top. We're blessed by

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Speaker 3: the American dream because it is alive and I'm living

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Speaker 3: proof of it. So I make a living. But the

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Speaker 3: new artists, every penny counts, and the fact that they

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Speaker 3: can be played on radio and not even make one

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Speaker 3: penny for their performance is criminals.

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Speaker 1: So I control a lot of people. We're on the

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Speaker 1: radio right now.

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Speaker 2: You see that big radio mic in front of you

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Speaker 2: there with such a good radio show, Gene. They put

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Speaker 2: it on TV and I've been knocking around the radio

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Speaker 2: business for a minut we hear about BMI and ASKCAP fees.

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Speaker 2: Has this always been the case or was it simply

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Speaker 2: an exchange? You play my music for exposure for publicity,

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Speaker 2: and I sell tickets and I sell albums And that's

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Speaker 2: now out of balance?

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Speaker 3: Is that what happens? Artists are not interested in negotiating

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Speaker 3: how their careers are built understood radio needs?

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Speaker 1: Where did the recording car BMI fees go?

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Speaker 3: ASKAP? And BMI specifically relates to writers and publishers, which

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Speaker 3: doesn't affect the masses. Whatso weten?

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Speaker 2: So is this radio's fault or your contract with the

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Speaker 2: record company?

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Speaker 1: How come the middleman hasn't given you nothing to do.

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Speaker 3: With the record company because they make money when they

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Speaker 3: sell records and writers and producers. This is the actual

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Speaker 3: recording artist. You like Elvis, you like Sinatra? When you

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Speaker 3: hear that song on the radio. The people we tuned

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Speaker 3: in for actually never get paid.

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Speaker 1: Amazing.

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Speaker 3: Everybody else gets paid, the writers and the publishers and

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Speaker 3: the advertising dollars. Radio last year made fourteen billion dollars.

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Speaker 3: You know how much of that went to the Sinatra

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Speaker 3: state or Tame and Paula or all the new bands.

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Speaker 1: I think I'm getting zero.

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Speaker 2: Okay, that's in contrast to satellite radio, digital platform talking

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Speaker 2: about no I know, but I just want to square

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Speaker 2: that you're suggesting the radio industry is behind the times.

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Speaker 1: Because all of these other platforms are not staying anything.

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Speaker 3: I'm stating fact that AMFM radio is well. I want

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Speaker 3: to use language that doesn't get anybody legal and involved

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Speaker 3: in the Patua of the street is criminal. You cannot

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Speaker 3: The America is based on the premise that if you

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Speaker 3: work hard, you should get paid. So everybody's getting paid

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Speaker 3: when a radio station AMMFM broadcasts. The executives get paid,

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Speaker 3: the advertisers pay money, the billboards on the street which

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Speaker 3: use our name and likeness for free. If you use

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Speaker 3: my name and likeness otherwise, I would take your firstborn

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Speaker 3: and your house. But radio is allowed to do that.

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Speaker 3: They keep fourteen billion, and the new artists, by the way,

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Speaker 3: who's trying hard to make it, is not going to

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Speaker 3: make those precious pennies to help them survive. And that's

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Speaker 3: as far as I'm concerned. My opinion is it's criminal.

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Speaker 2: Listeners you write in the op ed are more likely

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Speaker 2: today to discover new music on Spotify, Apple, YouTube, TikTok.

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Speaker 2: At the same time, more and more local stations have

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Speaker 2: been bought up by big corporations like iHeart in Odyssey.

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Speaker 1: They still play the.

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Speaker 2: Music without paying the artists, often hits that listeners already

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Speaker 2: know in order to generate ad revenue. As I mentioned

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Speaker 2: worked in radio for a while, I've seen rampant consolidation

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Speaker 2: in this business.

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Speaker 1: Has that mean it.

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Speaker 3: Worse well one way or the other, Whether it's consolide

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Speaker 3: or a potential payers, the result is the same. A

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Speaker 3: truck runs you over and the guy comes out and says,

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Speaker 3: I'm sorry, I ran you over. I didn't mean to

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Speaker 3: do it, or I don't like you I ran you over.

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Speaker 3: What's the difference you've been run over? So the question

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Speaker 3: is an interesting dialectic, another big word like nasum. The

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Speaker 3: result is nothing's changed. The artists are not getting paid.

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Speaker 3: That I mean especially our children and our children's children

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Speaker 3: are going to be the next generation superstars after they

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Speaker 3: climb their way to the top and five Ford, what

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Speaker 3: do they have forward to look? What do they have?

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Speaker 3: You know? Looking forward? They're going to get zero pennies

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Speaker 3: when their songs are played on AM and FM radio,

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Speaker 3: and that's insane.

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Speaker 1: Do you have the president's support on this? Did you

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Speaker 1: talk to him about it?

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Speaker 3: I spent some time with the President alone in the

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Speaker 3: Oval Office, and we talked about family and I've known

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Speaker 3: the president, proud to say before he became a politician.

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Speaker 3: But what else we talked about is a private issue.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So that wasn't about legislation.

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Speaker 3: I guess I didn't say that's what you're leading the witness.

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Speaker 3: You're hon it the semantics, but I'm not anti semantic.

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Speaker 1: I hope that you're not, because we wouldn't be able to.

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Speaker 3: Let you let it was a little clickbait there. What

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Speaker 3: I talked, Yes, I specifically said what I spoke with

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Speaker 3: the President about is not for anybody else's consumption. Okay, Well,

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Speaker 3: there is such a thing as privacy.

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Speaker 1: I completely understand.

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Speaker 2: I only ask you because so many lawmakers come on

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Speaker 2: the air and say, if we get a directive from

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Speaker 2: the president, we can make this work. What did you

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Speaker 2: hear in the committee from from members? Did you get

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Speaker 2: a lot of votes on this?

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Speaker 3: I've heard a lot of support. I've met privately with

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Speaker 3: Senator Marshall Blackman and mister Schiff. Both sides of the

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Speaker 3: aisle seem let's just say, as soon as Congress gets

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Speaker 3: their act together, the President will sign this. I am

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Speaker 3: convinced of it. My personal opinion.

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Speaker 2: Well, our audience should know, and you're talking to the

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Speaker 2: business community right now that you are no stranger to

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Speaker 2: big business and some pretty shrewd moves. It was a

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Speaker 2: Bloomberg report when you sold your publishing rights last year

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Speaker 2: House Entertainment Retirement.

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Speaker 3: That it's not entirely accurate, so just here to correct

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Speaker 3: it for the record. An entity called Pophouse, a futuristic

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Speaker 3: company out of Sweden, came and bought Kiss the underlying rights,

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Speaker 3: the makeup logos as well as the writing publishing for

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Speaker 3: a respectable sum enough to buy Rhode Island. I give

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Speaker 3: you a pregnant pause so that it sinks in. But

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Speaker 3: the future looks even more gargantuan than the past. We

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Speaker 3: are in the middle of the first motion picture to

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Speaker 3: be directed by McGee. There's an awful lot of stuff

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Speaker 3: that I can't talk about because nobody wants to find

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Speaker 3: out where they're going to get for Christmas.

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Speaker 1: In July.

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Speaker 3: There is an enormous commitment by Pophouse in the future

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Speaker 3: of kiss and this is just the beginning. When you

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Speaker 3: look at a caterpillar and you say, well, that's the

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Speaker 3: end of its life. No, you're shortsighted. You don't understand

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Speaker 3: that it's going into a kon, which is where we

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Speaker 3: are now, and we're going to come out and defy

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Speaker 3: gravity with beautiful wings and sort of the heavens.

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Speaker 1: Very poetic.

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Speaker 3: I am kind of a big deal.

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Speaker 1: I've heard that in a poet.

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Speaker 3: I was a fan actually of Bloomberg when he was

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Speaker 3: a mayor, met the gentleman and he struck me as

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Speaker 3: a powerful and attractive man.

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Speaker 1: Well, I can only agree with that, and I loved.

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Speaker 3: His algorithm that made him rich and fish. But that's

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Speaker 3: another story.

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Speaker 2: Well, i'll tell you what. We've got the terminal right here.

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Speaker 2: I'm sure there's a disclaimer I'm supposed to read somewhere.

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Speaker 2: But with everything you just described, you just outline the

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Speaker 2: future of the music business.

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Speaker 1: Why are you chasing down the old format?

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Speaker 3: Well, look, the old formats are if they worked and

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Speaker 3: they were justified, should should and would continue. But tell

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Speaker 3: me what your retort is, even though I know you're

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Speaker 3: not retorted, how do you how do you validate our stars,

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Speaker 3: the people fought their way to the top, never get

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Speaker 3: a cent for radio airplay. How do you validate that

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Speaker 3: while radio is making fourteen billion dollars. Again, I'm not

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Speaker 3: demonizing them as bears, noting we need each other, but

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Speaker 3: somewhere between paying artists zero and fourteen billion dollars, there

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Speaker 3: should be a Remember the name of the act is Fairness,

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Speaker 3: American Music Fairness Act. You should let me talk more.

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Speaker 3: I can increase your you know, more people will watch

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Speaker 3: this instead of SpongeBob SquarePants.

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Speaker 2: Come on, believe that that's why you're here. Nobody gets

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Speaker 2: this much time. That's Simmons. Okay, so you said a lot. Well,

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Speaker 2: we consider the future of the music business. Do you

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Speaker 2: worry about AI regulation? Do you worry about these FACO

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Speaker 2: bands coming up? Speaking of algorithms, And by the way,

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Speaker 2: Mike Bloomberg is not only the boss here but founder

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Speaker 2: chairman Bloomberg LP.

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Speaker 1: That's right, AI is a worry for you or not?

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Speaker 3: AI is a concern if left unregulated. Anything beautiful horse

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Speaker 3: that you just bring in if it runs wild, you've

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Speaker 3: got to have some parameters that we control instead of AI.

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Speaker 3: Right now, there's a Country and Western star that's got

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Speaker 3: a number one record of sorts on some chart doesn't

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Speaker 3: actually exist. What do you think, Well, well, let me

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Speaker 3: just go. The major problem here, potentially, hypothetically and otherwise

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Speaker 3: is that if states have the right and this has

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Speaker 3: to be settled right away, the government must get a

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Speaker 3: federal law that encompasses all of AI to get some

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Speaker 3: sanity out of this. Because if you can do AI

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Speaker 3: legally in Delaware, where you have all your companies so

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Speaker 3: you don't pay so you pay less taxes because you're

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Speaker 3: a very bright man besides being good looking, why should

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Speaker 3: they want to do real music and real art in

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Speaker 3: New York when they can just go to Delaware and

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Speaker 3: do AI. No, you need a federal law that encompasses

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Speaker 3: the entire country, and I would highly recommend, and I

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Speaker 3: would hope the entire planet really gets together. It's an

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Speaker 3: issue for the un to get a world body to

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Speaker 3: accept it, because it's going to happen to the same

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Speaker 3: thing that happened to the unions in America. You charge

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Speaker 3: too much here, so we'll do business in China. No,

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Speaker 3: you want to address the AI issue worldwide so we

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Speaker 3: can control what the rules are, the comings and the going,

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Speaker 3: and what's the income stream, who owns the IP, who's

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Speaker 3: the owner of the trademark? At in for? And I'd

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Speaker 3: like to announce that I'm running for.

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Speaker 2: If you were a kid, you bought a guitar, you

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Speaker 2: wanted to get in the music business, what would you

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Speaker 2: tell him turn and run?

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Speaker 3: Well, I would tell anyone to do as I did,

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Speaker 3: which is to say to have a fallback position, because

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Speaker 3: anything that you pour your heart and soul into has

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Speaker 3: a pretty good chance. And that means likely ninety five

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Speaker 3: percent or more you will fail. And in my case,

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Speaker 3: I became a sixth grade teacher and an assistant to

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Speaker 3: the editor of Vogue magazine Kate Lloyd, and the assistant

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Speaker 3: to the Puerto Rican Interagency Council MAGD Lena Miranda for

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Speaker 3: the Boorriqua community, where I did work for government research

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Speaker 3: and Demonstration Project ADAM FROMIDAM and Ausium. In other words,

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Speaker 3: if your thing doesn't work out, what's the backdrop? Like,

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Speaker 3: I know you took ballet lessons. If this doesn't work out,

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Speaker 3: and you know, do your not keeping up with it?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's pretty cool for you to be here, and

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Speaker 2: I appreciate it very much. It is the American Music

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Speaker 2: Fairness Act, that's what he came here to talk about.

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Speaker 1: You don't need me to tell you, Gene Simmons