Speaker 1: When I'm diving down, there's no chatter, doesn't exist, so
Speaker 1: you're only in that moment and it's so primal and
Speaker 1: you're so just connected to the ocean and nothing else,
Speaker 1: and you feel small in the greatest possible way.
Speaker 2: Episode four fifty six. I sat for an hour with
Speaker 2: Zach Brown of Zach Brown Band. Obviously, I'd never sat
Speaker 2: with him for this long. We've done like twelve thirteen
Speaker 2: fourteen minute interviews. I'd spend some time with him away
Speaker 2: from the show, but never and it's a very intimate process,
Speaker 2: just sitting with someone for an hour. But never liked this.
Speaker 2: He shared some interesting things. One thing I don't think
Speaker 2: that he knew possibly hadn't been released yet of information
Speaker 2: I don't know. The concert thing. Yeah, so I guess
Speaker 2: this maybe the first time you hear that coming up
Speaker 2: I seeing him say anything about it. I haven't either,
Speaker 2: I've been looking so that happens. He talks about a
Speaker 2: pian and a bottle, which we'll get to as well.
Speaker 2: I mean, this guy, I feel like I can't get
Speaker 2: my brain to stop. I feel like he suffers from
Speaker 2: this too. I don't know when he has time to
Speaker 2: be creative. I know Zach Brown band has two new singles,
Speaker 2: tie Up and Pirates and Parrots. Uh, they're torn with
Speaker 2: Kenny Chesney. You know. I make the comment to him
Speaker 2: if I were Kenny, I would never have Zach Brown
Speaker 2: play before me. They're so good, and so we talked
Speaker 2: about that. I don't know. Camp Southern Ground is a
Speaker 2: whole thing too with Ah and he talks about how,
Speaker 2: you know, how they started and how he tries to
Speaker 2: give back in a lot of different ways, and Camp
Speaker 2: Southern Ground is about that, you know. I think we'll
Speaker 2: just go with it. I think you'll like this. I
Speaker 2: did first time I'd ever spend an hour with him,
Speaker 2: Zach Brown. He would you say? He's reclusive? Yeah, comes
Speaker 2: out for just concerts. Really Yeah. It's kind of weird
Speaker 2: to see him in the backyard because usually I only
Speaker 2: see him a like work stuff, and he's like a
Speaker 2: hunk of muscle with right. He's he's a guy that
Speaker 2: could I feel like you could punch as hard as
Speaker 2: you want it anywhere in his body except as nose possibly,
Speaker 2: and he would not be vulnerable to attack. He's a monster,
Speaker 2: all right, Harry is Zach Brown? Good to see you, man,
Speaker 2: You too, appreciate you coming over. Hey, So what is what?
Speaker 2: What is the deal? What do you live here? Now?
Speaker 2: I have a place here, not in my house? Do
Speaker 2: you live But because I always thought he was one
Speaker 2: of the guys who was never here, then you would
Speaker 2: like show up, are you here more?
Speaker 1: My home base is in Georgia still still that's home base.
Speaker 1: But I do have a place here in my studios
Speaker 1: here as well.
Speaker 2: Studio as in your recording studio.
Speaker 3: Yes, sir, it's Southern ground Nashville.
Speaker 2: It's over in that move too, right, because you sold
Speaker 2: the old one, really one, you should you get a
Speaker 2: pretty penny. Trust me, I know a little bit about
Speaker 2: real estate. Yeap.
Speaker 1: I need the Tenter during COVID because it was kind
Speaker 1: of wild. You listed everything I did.
Speaker 2: I listed it.
Speaker 1: I had it in a contract for a year and
Speaker 1: a half and the guys were they were just holding it,
Speaker 1: and then interest rates and everything went up, and then
Speaker 1: they kind of started getting fishy, and I was like,
Speaker 1: I'm not holding this another day without some heart earners money.
Speaker 2: So it was under contract for over a year.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then and then they put on hard earners
Speaker 1: money and then they ended up backing out again.
Speaker 2: So I just keep the money. Oh hell yeah, we had.
Speaker 2: We were still in the process of selling our other house.
Speaker 2: It was right down the road from here, and we
Speaker 2: put it up and we bought it right when COVID started.
Speaker 2: We bought it when everything went way down, so we
Speaker 2: got very fortunate. Yeah, and since then things have gone
Speaker 2: way up and we're going to do pretty good on it.
Speaker 2: Whenever we finally sell it. And some guy was like,
Speaker 2: I want it, and he said, I'll take it and
Speaker 2: put it in a contract and like two weeks went buy
Speaker 2: and he's like hey man, Like hey man. He didn't
Speaker 2: like reach out like a buddy, but he was like, hey,
Speaker 2: I just got divorced and I bought this house because
Speaker 2: it just got divorced. And my ex wife did not
Speaker 2: want me to get this house the last time it
Speaker 2: was up for sale, so I bought it to spite her.
Speaker 2: And I like to get out of the contract because
Speaker 2: I shouldn't have made that decision, so I let him.
Speaker 2: We haven't sold it since, which was gonna sell it.
Speaker 2: But I could have held an account, and you know,
Speaker 2: I could have been like, nah, you but yeah, real estate,
Speaker 2: real estate. It's the I don't know much about money.
Speaker 2: I didn't grow up with money. But it's like the
Speaker 2: only thing I've ever done where it's like almost you
Speaker 2: went almost every.
Speaker 3: Time, especially around here.
Speaker 2: Is it like that everywhere though? I mean I know,
Speaker 2: because everyone's always like around here, but only know around here.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it depends on what it is, man, you know,
Speaker 1: in a growing area like this. It is in my experience,
Speaker 1: you know it. I mean I bought I bought my
Speaker 1: studio and the building next door to it in like
Speaker 1: twenty ten, and there were no high rise buildings except
Speaker 1: the Orbison building was the biggest building around anywhere close
Speaker 1: to us.
Speaker 3: So it was like little houses still.
Speaker 1: And I wish I had bought everything anywhere around there
Speaker 1: at that time, knowing hindsight.
Speaker 3: But so we did good on that. We put a
Speaker 3: lot into it.
Speaker 1: We turned the whole thing into guitar woods, floors, walls,
Speaker 1: you know, everything, ceiling. But it's such a cool historic place,
Speaker 1: you know. It was monument records back in the sixties.
Speaker 1: It was like Fred Foster's place, and then Al Jolson
Speaker 1: owned it after that, and so when we got the studio,
Speaker 1: it was completely stacked full. The tap vault was completely
Speaker 1: full of old tapes that people recorded there. There was
Speaker 1: like a let the tape. There was Christofferson tapes there.
Speaker 1: There was all the financial records of everyone that ever
Speaker 1: recorded there from the sixties until now what do you
Speaker 1: do with those? I've got a little area set up
Speaker 1: that's just like all the history. So we set it
Speaker 1: up and organized it all. And there's like unreleased Shel
Speaker 1: Silverstein records there's but there's a file for everyone that
Speaker 1: recorded there, and everyone recorded there. The B three that's
Speaker 1: in there, the Allman brothers came. And the story is
Speaker 1: the brothers came and recorded there and then couldn't pay
Speaker 1: their full studio bills, so Greg left his his hammon there,
Speaker 1: So the B three was Greg's. There's the piano was
Speaker 1: one of Liberachi's pianos. It was from nineteen twenty Baldwin,
Speaker 1: huge grand piano sound nothing sounds like that thing. And
Speaker 1: Al Jolson owned that and it was came along with
Speaker 1: the sale of studio. So I got all this old
Speaker 1: treasure that was in the place and all the history
Speaker 1: behind it all.
Speaker 2: So you knew that a lot of that older historic
Speaker 2: stuff was in there when you bought it. It wasn't like
Speaker 2: you stumbled on a small door and you crawled through
Speaker 2: the door and you're like, oh no, the whole studio
Speaker 2: was completely full.
Speaker 1: It was full of old Mike stands, like my MIC's
Speaker 1: stand has Jjkle's name sprayed on the bottom of it.
Speaker 1: It's like and supposedly there's an Elvis necklace somewhere that
Speaker 1: someone left in the wall, like one of his in
Speaker 1: the people on his thing, like he gave out gold
Speaker 1: TCB you know, yeah, take care of the necklaces. And
Speaker 1: supposedly one of the guys that was working on it
Speaker 1: back in the sixties or whatever left his necklace up
Speaker 1: and it got closed in a wall somewhere in the building.
Speaker 1: There's all kinds of crazy stories, but steeped in history.
Speaker 1: It was a church had built in nineteen oh one,
Speaker 1: and before that the ground it was on was like
Speaker 1: a Civil War battlefield, like resting ground, like they had
Speaker 1: the overflow from hospitals. So it's pretty haunted as well
Speaker 1: as a lot of my staff will tell you that
Speaker 1: stayed in there late at night often and found really
Speaker 1: weird things in there. So it's a it's a cool place, man,
Speaker 1: It's like dripping with weird cool stuff. And I'm not
Speaker 1: one of those super ghost people.
Speaker 2: Like that.
Speaker 1: I just try not to be open to that kind
Speaker 1: of stuff. I'd rather just if it's around, I'd rather
Speaker 1: just not pay attention to it. Yeah, but people friends
Speaker 1: of mine that are have coming there and like gotten
Speaker 1: sick of their stomach. They're like, oh God, there's so
Speaker 1: many spirits in here and whatever, and it's like cool, sweet.
Speaker 2: I got two places I want to go. One, I
Speaker 2: bring up the property in the real estate things. I
Speaker 2: feel like you're a guy who's gotten into a lot
Speaker 2: of different things and is actually and I don't know
Speaker 2: if you have if you're like me and you just
Speaker 2: want to do a little bit of everything and learn
Speaker 2: about everything, or if because you're with the food, with
Speaker 2: the music with I mean, if I feel like there's
Speaker 2: five or six places that you've the leather, you know,
Speaker 2: with all that you've done, what part of you is
Speaker 2: the person that chases that? Like mine is like I
Speaker 2: get obsessed with things like addict They come from an
Speaker 2: addiction family big time. Right now. My thing is like
Speaker 2: sports Mambillian cards. Can't get about to saus helmets and gear.
Speaker 2: I'm just I get it. Yeah, have you ever seen these?
Speaker 2: I just actually brought this down and I never bought
Speaker 2: these before they're called Apparently they are pop centery. They're
Speaker 2: like not athletes, but like celebrity, like famous people who
Speaker 2: sign cards.
Speaker 3: I haven't seen those yet.
Speaker 2: I will break this in a minute. What part of
Speaker 2: you though, interest you in all these different things?
Speaker 1: I'm the same way, Like I'll chase a rabbit hole
Speaker 1: something that's interesting to me, I will latch onto it
Speaker 1: and research and learn as much as I can about it.
Speaker 1: And I think the part about being an artist is
Speaker 1: not just you know, music is one of the mediums
Speaker 1: that you can use, but you know, I've been making
Speaker 1: knives since I was eighteen years old, So creating something
Speaker 1: and whether it's space or whatever, like I love to
Speaker 1: come into a space if it's somewhere where I'm going
Speaker 1: to be, and transform that space into a vibe that
Speaker 1: I'm really going to, like, like getting the lighting correct,
Speaker 1: the right way of getting the right things. And then
Speaker 1: all my traveling I come upon things. I seek things too,
Speaker 1: Like if I go to do a tour in the UK,
Speaker 1: I'm going to head up all the old weird antique
Speaker 1: stores that have like five six hundred year old stuff
Speaker 1: in them and kind of pick through those things and
Speaker 1: find things to bring back. So I'm I'm kind of
Speaker 1: a people collector as far as on the business side
Speaker 1: of things, and I'm kind of a collector of art
Speaker 1: and weird things.
Speaker 2: Well, So where does that come from? What was what
Speaker 2: was home like growing up? Did anybody do that? Did
Speaker 2: anybody collect or draw or?
Speaker 3: My uncle.
Speaker 1: On my mom's side, so my grandma, my great uncle,
Speaker 1: my grandmother's brother, he was the same way. Like when
Speaker 1: I went to his house and saw his whole setup
Speaker 1: and everything too, I'm like, that's got to be somewhere
Speaker 1: from that side of the family. But I think for me,
Speaker 1: I'm a hyper curious person. So I'm always curious about things,
Speaker 1: and I want to learn about things, and I'm interested.
Speaker 1: So you know, when I was learning about leather goods
Speaker 1: and things like that, I would find people that made
Speaker 1: leather goods, give them the space.
Speaker 2: And the tools, help them buy the tools.
Speaker 1: And you know, I had one hundred and sixty five
Speaker 1: thousand square feet of manufacturing space in Georgia before COVID hit,
Speaker 1: and that was compartmentalized into nineteen different businesses and spaces
Speaker 1: and stuff, and I had craftsmen in there and engineers
Speaker 1: and things, and you know, S and C equipment, CENC, metal,
Speaker 1: S and C leather, CE and C wood shop all
Speaker 1: in this place.
Speaker 2: So what's C and C.
Speaker 1: It's basically no computer, computer controlled machines, got it?
Speaker 2: Yeah? I don't want to act like a smart and
Speaker 2: new so yeah.
Speaker 1: So you know mills, lathes, things that run themselves. You
Speaker 1: put it in a program like I could do a
Speaker 1: full body scan of you and then carve it out
Speaker 1: of wood. Put a block of wood on this machine
Speaker 1: and it had two five axis routers heads that would
Speaker 1: carve you like full on like nostrils and everything out
Speaker 1: of out of wood.
Speaker 2: Can you imagine if I like made out with that,
Speaker 2: that'd be weird. Yeah, you get a splinter my own Yeah,
Speaker 2: I'm like in my tongue, I'd be weird. Uh what
Speaker 2: about the what the craftsman part? Who did that?
Speaker 3: People that I would find?
Speaker 1: I would find people that were already making amazing things
Speaker 1: and reach out to them and like, would you.
Speaker 2: Be interested in that as a kid? Were you interested
Speaker 2: in that? Like cutting and building? And I was? I
Speaker 2: was very creative as a kid. Were you artsy and
Speaker 2: weird or were you because right now you're not you're artsy,
Speaker 2: but you're not weird, and you've take it taken the
Speaker 2: weird way because you have tattoos in your jacked.
Speaker 1: Well, I think I think you know. I think being
Speaker 1: a nerd of anything's kind of cool actually, but it
Speaker 1: doesn't actually get to be cool.
Speaker 2: Until you're a little bit older, I agree.
Speaker 1: And then then you find out when you put energy
Speaker 1: and effort into something and you really like search it out,
Speaker 1: and you really Because of my music, I was able
Speaker 1: to reach people. I was able to call people on
Speaker 1: the phone and maybe people would know who I was
Speaker 1: and I could speak to them and like show them
Speaker 1: what we're doing later on, Yeah, what is the kid?
Speaker 2: Were you a weird kid? Though? I was a weird
Speaker 2: kid or what was considered weird for Mountain Pine, Arkansas?
Speaker 2: I was weird because I wanted to like perform and
Speaker 2: be funny. That didn't happen where I came from.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was a choir kid, so I could inquire
Speaker 1: when I was in first grade, so I always loved
Speaker 1: to sing. My dad and my brother played guitar, so
Speaker 1: I wanted to play guitar, and so I was From
Speaker 1: the time I was seven, I started taking guitar lessons
Speaker 1: and a guitar was always like home for me wherever
Speaker 1: I was, so I carried my guitar everywhere I went.
Speaker 1: Music was definitely like my first love that I ever had,
Speaker 1: singing along with shows. My brothers tell me to shut
Speaker 1: up and stop singing, you know, just be quiet and
Speaker 1: thin like that. But my love for music was definitely
Speaker 1: my absolute first first love. And I think as a
Speaker 1: kid just being super creative, like I would make stuff
Speaker 1: in class out of you know, construction paper and pipe
Speaker 1: cleaners and stuff I'd make like little weird grappling hooks
Speaker 1: and tear up the corner of the carpet and make
Speaker 1: a rope for it, and like, I don't know, I
Speaker 1: was always making things, So it's natural as my progression.
Speaker 1: And I always love to see anyone that's really amazing
Speaker 1: at doing something, somebody that's like the leather worker that
Speaker 1: I have Ramone, he's unbelievable. So for Louis Vuittan for
Speaker 1: twenty years, he's when he crafts something out of leather,
Speaker 1: it's like it's perfect, you know. And finding people like
Speaker 1: that that are so good at what they do and
Speaker 1: they have this level of passion that drives them to
Speaker 1: be that kind of excellent. I wanted to like provide
Speaker 1: a space for them to do what they do, just like,
Speaker 1: what do you need? What tools do you need to
Speaker 1: do this on a bigger level, so we can make
Speaker 1: things and sell them pay for your salary, but also
Speaker 1: be able to make things very bespoke things for people
Speaker 1: or make things, you know, like my plane, the whole
Speaker 1: interior my plane Ramon and made every piece of the plane,
Speaker 1: all the chairs, the panels, ceiling, the bathroom, every everything
Speaker 1: in it. So I've always been really attracted to people
Speaker 1: that are really amazing at something. And then what I'm
Speaker 1: at is being a pragmatic person and going, Okay, if
Speaker 1: I just give this person every tool that they need
Speaker 1: in the space and freedom to do it, what can
Speaker 1: they create?
Speaker 2: Do you expect the same thing whenever it comes to
Speaker 2: you and your music. You want them to give you
Speaker 2: every resource to let you do your perfection? Yeah?
Speaker 3: Absolutely, And my band is extraordinary.
Speaker 2: I'm like a record label or whomever, because you you know,
Speaker 2: they have to fund things. It's not you know, there's
Speaker 2: reasons flid with a label. Do you expect them to
Speaker 2: give you the same liberty that you give your creatives?
Speaker 2: For sure?
Speaker 1: And you know, I think if you're going to work
Speaker 1: with a label, they have to trust you as the artist.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: I don't have a and R coming in to tell
Speaker 1: me what kind of songs to write and what it
Speaker 1: needs to sound like and be like and.
Speaker 3: Stuff like that. Like I create what I create.
Speaker 1: And if they like it, then they're gonna, you know,
Speaker 1: support it, and they'll listen through everything that we made
Speaker 1: and say this might be the best one for this.
Speaker 1: And being able to kind of trust your team with that.
Speaker 1: But it's very important to me. I've been fanatically rebellious
Speaker 1: since I was a child, to where I someone tries
Speaker 1: to tell me what I should be, how I should act,
Speaker 1: what I should I didn't get a record deal for
Speaker 1: ten years because people came in and we're like, Okay,
Speaker 1: we're going to get you a cowboy hat and some
Speaker 1: boots and we're going to put you up. And that
Speaker 1: was the end of the conversation for me because I
Speaker 1: knew who I was, and I was brave enough to
Speaker 1: say that's not who I am. And I remember one
Speaker 1: time we were selling out like five six thousand seats
Speaker 1: at places before we had a record deal. I mean,
Speaker 1: we played every night. I had to create a business model.
Speaker 1: So I would go to bars, sports bars that didn't
Speaker 1: have live music, and I'd say, I'm going to play
Speaker 1: here every Friday night. I'm going to come set up
Speaker 1: and all I want is the door, give me a tab,
Speaker 1: give me some food or whatever, you know, give me
Speaker 1: a couple hundred bucks in a tab for me in
Speaker 1: mist in Georgia, Georgia, Florida, and Alabama. So my first
Speaker 1: ten years of touring, I did that, and I played
Speaker 1: house gigs at the same place every the same night
Speaker 1: of the week for ten years. But after a little
Speaker 1: bit of time, on a Wednesday night at as Sidelines
Speaker 1: in Kinnesau, we'd have three hundred people come in pay
Speaker 1: a door charge, and I'd make, you know, twelve hundred
Speaker 1: bucks at the door, and then they're stoked. Because if
Speaker 1: I've owned restaurants too, so you lose your ass in
Speaker 1: a restaurant Monday through Thursday, Friday Saturday as you make
Speaker 1: up for the rest of the whole week. But making
Speaker 1: a business, making a night of business for somebody on
Speaker 1: a Wednesday, that's like a Friday Saturday, is like a
Speaker 1: gold mine. That's that's but I would show up and play.
Speaker 1: We'd play four hours a night and we'd set up.
Speaker 1: I mean, at first it was six hours a night
Speaker 1: we'd play. But we created a business model. And if
Speaker 1: I had been in Nashville here trying to go hunt
Speaker 1: a gig for sixty bucks a night, you know, hustling
Speaker 1: like that, there's a lot of people. There's so many
Speaker 1: incredible players and things around here, but it's so saturated,
Speaker 1: there's not it, there's not a business. Well, we created
Speaker 1: a business model. So we would play those places every
Speaker 1: every single week, and we'd bring in tons of people.
Speaker 1: And that's how I could test my songs that I
Speaker 1: was writing. I would know I'd play it out like
Speaker 1: I was playing Chicken Fried in bars for years before
Speaker 1: we put it on an album. But I knew after
Speaker 1: playing that in front of three hundred people a night
Speaker 1: on a Wednesday in a sports bar that it would work.
Speaker 1: I could tell by the reaction of what the people
Speaker 1: were doing. So they were the litmus test of like
Speaker 1: what's working and what's not. So six nights a week
Speaker 1: for ten years, bro, just grinding my ass off, sleeping
Speaker 1: against the window of a truck, you know, hired a
Speaker 1: dude to drive me and pull my you know, covered
Speaker 1: trailer around with our shits on sticks in it and
Speaker 1: our PA.
Speaker 3: System and doing that.
Speaker 1: So I didn't know how other people did it. I
Speaker 1: didn't know there were rules or how it works or
Speaker 1: anything like that. So it was always interesting to me
Speaker 1: when I come to Nashville and the way people write songs.
Speaker 1: And I was writing just you know, late at night,
Speaker 1: up after shows at somebody's random living room, you know.
Speaker 1: So I didn't know that people sit and write like
Speaker 1: they'll take four sessions a day and come in to
Speaker 1: write and do things. So I never knew the way
Speaker 1: business should work or how it should work. All I
Speaker 1: knew was I'm just playing and I was cutting my teeth,
Speaker 1: and it gave me the best like resilience, and it
Speaker 1: also gave me this incredible appreciation for every single person
Speaker 1: because sometimes the dude cleaning up the bar was the
Speaker 1: only person that was listening to me. And so my
Speaker 1: connection to people, to I don't know, this is not
Speaker 1: a derogatory thing, but like to common people, being out
Speaker 1: there with people. So I learned to love all kinds
Speaker 1: of people of all different abilities because you never know how.
Speaker 1: And I can still go in the back in the
Speaker 1: kitchen and Dixie tavern right now, and see Fernando, the
Speaker 1: guy that was always cooking in the back of the kitchen,
Speaker 1: and give him a hug and hang out with him,
Speaker 1: because that was my family back then.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't think it's derogatory term if you're also
Speaker 2: one of them.
Speaker 3: I am absolutely one of the people, And.
Speaker 2: I don't think even what take this that if you're
Speaker 2: like common people. But if it's like if I were
Speaker 2: to call somebody hillbilly, that's okay. I come from freaking Mountaine, Arkansas,
Speaker 2: so I can do that. But if somebody from it's
Speaker 2: not a hillbilly, for sure calls me hillbilly. But you
Speaker 2: have this weird stew of of perfectionist and creative. Those
Speaker 2: don't often go together. What's what's the tug on that?
Speaker 2: And who wins? Because again, the creative and the perfectionists,
Speaker 2: that doesn't mix well a lot of the times.
Speaker 1: Man, you know, I got a tattoo of Teddy Roosevelt
Speaker 1: on my on my left arm.
Speaker 3: I think.
Speaker 1: The people who go do the deeds, who actually do
Speaker 1: the things and show up and aren't afraid to fail.
Speaker 2: So like the arena is what you're talking about, man?
Speaker 3: In the arena?
Speaker 2: Yeah, so every I come back to that.
Speaker 1: Every time I hear some failed New York some guy,
Speaker 1: some author or writer in New York that writes something
Speaker 1: derogatory about my album when he had a failed band
Speaker 1: and just the only way he found a job was
Speaker 1: to write and you know, critique other people's music. I
Speaker 1: go back to that speech to the man in the arena,
Speaker 1: to Teddy. But I wasn't afraid to fail. And that's
Speaker 1: the that's the thing I just you have to. I
Speaker 1: think perseverance is the most extraordinary thing that we can
Speaker 1: possibly have, because if you if you're willing to put
Speaker 1: in the work and grind and hustle and an artist,
Speaker 1: talent comes pretty cheap.
Speaker 3: You can find talent to people all day long.
Speaker 1: But the people that have the grit to persevere and
Speaker 1: fucking get out and grind and like get on the
Speaker 1: horse and hear a thousand people tell them that you
Speaker 1: can't do this and don't give a shit and just
Speaker 1: do it anyway, and just fucking keep going, keep going,
Speaker 1: keep going, because you don't start great. You start where
Speaker 1: you are and you work on it, and the more
Speaker 1: hours you do it, the more great you become. And
Speaker 1: the more hours Like so, I think that that resilience
Speaker 1: for me and getting to I didn't know where I
Speaker 1: was going.
Speaker 3: I just knew I wasn't gonna stop.
Speaker 2: But when you're creating, it could be then or now
Speaker 2: versus when you want it to be exactly right, you're
Speaker 2: not going to put where does that fall? At some
Speaker 2: point you've got to have a point where I'm just
Speaker 2: I just got to put it down on stop spending
Speaker 2: all this time worrying if it's perfect, or the other
Speaker 2: way where it's like, man, I am not putting anything
Speaker 2: out until it's exactly right. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I've said on lyrics to songs like Goodbye in Your Eyes.
Speaker 1: As an example, we have a song. It took ten
Speaker 1: to find the bridge for that song because I knew
Speaker 1: it was great, but I wouldn't compromise and just put
Speaker 1: some lines in that rhyme.
Speaker 2: So if you.
Speaker 1: If you like the people that you're writing with and
Speaker 1: you're creating with, which is a big thing for me
Speaker 1: now I've just started writing with this guy in the
Speaker 1: last year that I just love. In every two or
Speaker 1: three hours, another great song pops out. And so when
Speaker 1: you can find the energy and synergy around that, when
Speaker 1: you don't.
Speaker 2: I just thought ten years though have you had it,
Speaker 2: you'd have the bridge.
Speaker 1: I had it, but I knew that it just I
Speaker 1: didn't have it yet. It just wasn't there. But I
Speaker 1: hear songs on the radio all the time that I'm like,
Speaker 1: they're just making that shit rhyme, Like if you care
Speaker 1: about every line of the song, if a song is
Speaker 1: your baby, it's like the to me, songwriting is like
Speaker 1: the last like real American form of poetry and trying
Speaker 1: to you know, and some songs are are this poetic,
Speaker 1: like amazing thing that's like, you know, based on family
Speaker 1: or relationships or whatever. Some of them you write to
Speaker 1: just be absurd and to have fun. So it depends
Speaker 1: on what you're going for. But if you're looking, if
Speaker 1: you're looking for that poetry and seeking it out and
Speaker 1: you're trying to find the best line, I mean the
Speaker 1: genius in songs for me, like simple songs like Willie
Speaker 1: Nelson was a genius songwriter because he could say something
Speaker 1: so simple and you could any layman person could listen
Speaker 1: to it and go, that's great. But if you listen
Speaker 1: to how perfectly simple that it was, there's genius in
Speaker 1: how you do that, like boiling it down to something
Speaker 1: so simple. So for me, the chase of a song
Speaker 1: is like I never love a song more than right
Speaker 1: when we finish writing it, because you kind of forget
Speaker 1: what you did. You listen back to it and you're like, oh, yeah.
Speaker 2: There it is.
Speaker 1: But I have a really good radar with If that
Speaker 1: line's not good enough, the song's not done.
Speaker 4: Yet, hank Ty, the Bobby Cast will be right back
Speaker 4: and we're back on the Bobby Cast.
Speaker 2: I would have never finished a song then because if
Speaker 2: it waited ten years, there's nothing that could have been
Speaker 2: good enough to finish the song. So how did I
Speaker 2: want to go back to that specifically?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I just I heard it. It was actually a
Speaker 1: part of another song that a friend of mine had written,
Speaker 1: and I was like, that's and I changed that a
Speaker 1: little bit, but I was like, that's the bridge, that's
Speaker 1: the one, And then they got created, you know, credit
Speaker 1: for writing on the song as well, but you know,
Speaker 1: you don't know what it is, but you know it's
Speaker 1: not right yet.
Speaker 3: So that's the thing. You don't compromise.
Speaker 1: The songs are your babies, and however long it takes
Speaker 1: to do that. Sometimes you'll split a song out in
Speaker 1: an hour, and sometimes it takes ten years to finish one.
Speaker 1: But if you're proud of every single line and every
Speaker 1: single one and hopefully the people that listen that really
Speaker 1: care about every line, like you're looking for that duality.
Speaker 1: Like you're saying a lot of things in a very
Speaker 1: few simple words, like on you know.
Speaker 2: A layer of it.
Speaker 1: But I think I was blessed also, you know, my
Speaker 1: dad was a good businessman, and I think having a
Speaker 1: little bit of the left side brain about it, and
Speaker 1: also listening to everybody's horror stories of how they get
Speaker 1: taken advantage of in music business and things like that,
Speaker 1: Like I was very stubborn with negotiating those things because
Speaker 1: you have to negotiate it on what you're going to
Speaker 1: be and not what you are. Because most I've never
Speaker 1: signed a publishing deal because I had tons of offers
Speaker 1: over the years. Somebody wants to come, you know, give
Speaker 1: you half a million dollars, they'll loan it to you,
Speaker 1: and then they own half of everything you write after
Speaker 1: that point in time. And it's like, if I'm betting
Speaker 1: on myself, then I'm betting on one day I'm going
Speaker 1: to sell out stadiums and I'm going to have number
Speaker 1: one songs and I'm going to be doing this, so
Speaker 1: is taking you know, one hundred grand advance for doing
Speaker 1: this right now a smart thing to do. So I
Speaker 1: think being longsighted and how you negotiate with things, and
Speaker 1: it made it where some it was hard for some
Speaker 1: people to work with me because I was very stubborn,
Speaker 1: but I live outside of the rules of what everybody
Speaker 1: else did because I didn't come from it.
Speaker 2: I didn't know what they were.
Speaker 3: So I was really blessed in that way.
Speaker 1: I feel like I didn't know how it was supposed
Speaker 1: to work, so I just did what worked for me.
Speaker 1: And then I'm one of the only artists that I
Speaker 1: know that owns all of my masters. I own all
Speaker 1: the masters to all my recordings, and that doesn't normally happen, right,
Speaker 1: even the Beatles, the Beatles Michael Jackson own the Beatles Publishing,
Speaker 1: and then the Beatles own Michael Jackson Publishing, but they
Speaker 1: never own their own It was always tied up. It
Speaker 1: was always in all these details of contracts that people
Speaker 1: don't understand and don't know. And I would say a
Speaker 1: big contributing factor to this thing too, is like anybody's
Speaker 1: starting out to the music is the first thing that you
Speaker 1: need to have is a great lawyer. I've had read
Speaker 1: Hunter since day one, since I had one, and he's
Speaker 1: been incredible because I'm asking him, Okay, what does this mean?
Speaker 1: You know, he'd have to dumb things down for me
Speaker 1: to help understand. Okay, how does that work in eight
Speaker 1: years from now? What does that mean? How does it go?
Speaker 3: And when I sign a new contract, what does that mean?
Speaker 2: And as far as you don't have a law firm
Speaker 2: with everything else you got see law firm is Hebb
Speaker 2: law firm, leather in law.
Speaker 1: But finding one that you can really trust and that
Speaker 1: has the influence and has the stuff. If he didn't
Speaker 1: know the answer, he can find someone that does know
Speaker 1: the answer. And that's how you build your team. You
Speaker 1: find that person first and then you kind of help,
Speaker 1: you know, do that. But man, you gotta be tough. Man,
Speaker 1: you gotta be tough, and you can't let people tell
Speaker 1: you what you are, because if you become what other
Speaker 1: people think that you should be, you don't know who
Speaker 1: the fuck you are.
Speaker 2: I would agree with that. I also like songs that
Speaker 2: Ryan Barron Carr. Do you have any of those?
Speaker 1: I don't think, so I try to stay away from
Speaker 1: Love the Bar and car some of those. Yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: we can do that to you. I write one with.
Speaker 2: You on whatever you like. No, here's the thing about
Speaker 2: my songwriting that could probably heard some of my hits,
Speaker 2: like Hobby Lobby Bobby, It's sweeps the Nation. But I
Speaker 2: have this idea for a song and it's about driving
Speaker 2: in the country and it's the hardest sing along ever.
Speaker 2: It's my idea, and so I do stand up, I
Speaker 2: do music whatever fair mediumly. And the idea is I'm
Speaker 2: driving in the country and I look over on the rock,
Speaker 2: on the rocks that have been cut out for the road,
Speaker 2: and there's like a lot of drawings up there, and
Speaker 2: I'm like, oh, this is cool. And then everybody sings
Speaker 2: along and it's called plural rural murals, and it's the
Speaker 2: hardest thing along ever because it's hard to say plural
Speaker 2: rural murals, especially a few times in a row. Oh
Speaker 2: that's true. So that's where I am right now. I
Speaker 2: just really haven't foud I've been waiting ten years to
Speaker 2: get some way to write it with. Well, I haven't
Speaker 2: even started writing it just to get someone to write
Speaker 2: it with. I'm not even to needing a bridge. Yet
Speaker 2: that's how perfectionist I am. With the song plural rural murals.
Speaker 1: Okay, all right, tell me that is not I desire.
Speaker 1: I actually see a lot in those three words together.
Speaker 1: I can see a lot of possibility. So that's a
Speaker 1: great start.
Speaker 2: Thank you. And that's where I am. I probably wait
Speaker 2: another ten before I get to the park for sure.
Speaker 2: I just got to find that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, when you're ninety, bro, you're gonna have it.
Speaker 2: I need a good lawyer and a good person to
Speaker 2: ride it with. I'm ready to go. Yeah. The thing
Speaker 2: about a lawyer, though, is a lot of people that
Speaker 2: are starting in this business and I would even put
Speaker 2: myself into this business as being the the artistic side
Speaker 2: where you make money. Is we didn't grow up around lawyers.
Speaker 2: We don't know. Yeah, I didn't know. I know now
Speaker 2: the value of it, but if I would, I mean,
Speaker 2: I had a couple of backstreet boy deals which meant
Speaker 2: bad ones at first with agent with but I didn't
Speaker 2: know because I was I never even knew a lawyer.
Speaker 2: And so the importance of saying you need a lawyer
Speaker 2: and having people not go he's not talking to me
Speaker 2: because I don't know much about lawyers. Like it's almost like,
Speaker 2: if you're going to do music and you're gonna have
Speaker 2: an art that you monetize, you need somebody making sure
Speaker 2: somebody's not ripping it off, even at the lowest level. Sure,
Speaker 2: And when you say that, I'm like, man, I wish
Speaker 2: I would have listened to somebody tell me that, because
Speaker 2: people probably did. But I was like, lawyer, that's fancy.
Speaker 2: What am I gonna do it? What am I gonna
Speaker 2: do with a lawyer? But it would have saved me
Speaker 2: a lot of stress.
Speaker 1: Well, I think it comes along with recognizing your own strengths, right, Like,
Speaker 1: I know, I feel like I know my lane and
Speaker 1: I know what I'm good at.
Speaker 3: So everything. So if if I'm a nine, or if
Speaker 3: I'm a nine and.
Speaker 1: Some things say at a ten scale, Right, if I'm
Speaker 1: a nine, it's some things and I'm two's and other
Speaker 1: ones if I'm doing it the right way. My team
Speaker 1: are all nines and tens at their area of what
Speaker 1: they do.
Speaker 3: Over the that I'm terrible at doing.
Speaker 1: To even know to get a lawyer though, yeah, well
Speaker 1: that's because I heard about everything, and you know, I
Speaker 1: don't have a contract with my lawyer. We made an
Speaker 1: agreement early on, like you're gonna make this percentage of
Speaker 1: everything that I make or whatever. And he did that
Speaker 1: when I was making nothing, and he stood by me
Speaker 1: and helped me to do that, help me build my team,
Speaker 1: help me to put things together.
Speaker 3: Still, you know, still my guy to this day.
Speaker 1: And that's the thing with me, Like if somebody's made
Speaker 1: of the right character in fabric or whatever, I will
Speaker 1: work with that person forever. There's there's lots of things
Speaker 1: that change in and out of time, things that fit.
Speaker 1: It may not mean that they're bad people or make
Speaker 1: bad decisions, but it just doesn't work. But I've been
Speaker 1: really blessed to build my team of people where I've
Speaker 1: got people around me that are all tens where I'm
Speaker 1: a two, and then everything's covered, you know, and then
Speaker 1: seeking counsel from people, having people like Jimmy Buffett, who
Speaker 1: you know, rest in peace, people like him that I
Speaker 1: can call and go, hey, man, what.
Speaker 2: Was this like for you?
Speaker 3: What how do you think about this?
Speaker 1: There's only a handful of people that I could call
Speaker 1: and get quick answers from that independent that would.
Speaker 2: Make sense to you. For you, because only a few
Speaker 2: people ever done what you're doing at the level you're doing,
Speaker 2: and have somewhat of an understanding of what you're going through.
Speaker 1: How he built his brand, how he does his things,
Speaker 1: what he doesn't do, what he does, you know, like,
Speaker 1: what's the advice you know? I mean even like even Springsteen.
Speaker 1: I remember the time I talked to him. I was like,
Speaker 1: tell me something that's the most important thing that you
Speaker 1: can tell me for my career, like what he is,
Speaker 1: there's something that you can think of. And his reply was,
Speaker 1: you need to sweat every day for an hour. I
Speaker 1: don't care what you do. Just go find a place, walk, run,
Speaker 1: work out, whatever it is. Sweat for an hour a day.
Speaker 1: And after he told me that, I was like, all right,
Speaker 1: he's a boss. I'm gonna do that. It give me
Speaker 1: little things like that that people say they can change
Speaker 1: your trajectory. They could change like what you're doing, and
Speaker 1: you know, having but being able to access people like
Speaker 1: that and being able to do it and somehow beyond
Speaker 1: their radar was amazing because I started off and I
Speaker 1: still am. I'm a giant music fan. I'm a music
Speaker 1: lover like fanatic. I try to seek things out that
Speaker 1: move me, seek things out like the way people are
Speaker 1: writing and the way they sing it and the way
Speaker 1: they play it and put it with the melodies and
Speaker 1: the harmonies or whatever it is that makes it give
Speaker 1: you that visceral feeling where you can listen to something
Speaker 1: and you really feel what they're feeling. So I still
Speaker 1: seek that out to this day. So I started out
Speaker 1: as a music lover. So it's it's weird and amazing
Speaker 1: along my journey to get to share stages with my heroes.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's wild. I'm finally I finally have people that
Speaker 2: I think are cool, that think I'm kind of cool exactly.
Speaker 2: And it's not even that they have to be super famous.
Speaker 2: It's just somebody that I thought was cool. It's like, oh,
Speaker 2: I kind of You're like, that's the that's the greatest thing.
Speaker 1: But I never lose sight of the kid that was
Speaker 1: just in love with music, because that's still who I am.
Speaker 1: So it's always when I'm sharing, like we just did
Speaker 1: that the Jimmy Buffett tribute in LA and the Hollywood
Speaker 1: Bowl Show. Yeah, and with you know, Paul McCartney and
Speaker 1: the Eagles and Jackson Brown and you know, it goes
Speaker 1: on and on, but you.
Speaker 2: Still have to go be cool, be cool to yourself,
Speaker 2: like be cool, be cool, be cool. But Paul McCarney
Speaker 2: be cool.
Speaker 1: Yeah, always, I mean always, and I'm never So my
Speaker 1: life is so polarizing, Like when I'm at home, I
Speaker 1: got five kids, So when I'm at home, I'm the
Speaker 1: house bitch, Like I'm there to serve them.
Speaker 3: I'm there to drive.
Speaker 2: Them, take them school, pick them up for school, take them.
Speaker 3: Around and do whatever.
Speaker 2: And I love that.
Speaker 1: I want to be there to see all that as
Speaker 1: much as I possibly can, and I have them half
Speaker 1: the time. So that's half of my life is in
Speaker 1: Georgia doing that, and I absolutely love that. And I
Speaker 1: never get used to when I go back out on
Speaker 1: the road and I stand at a stadium full of
Speaker 1: people and singing and going, holy shit, this is what
Speaker 1: I this.
Speaker 2: Is what I do.
Speaker 1: That part, that part of grandeur of whatever that is
Speaker 1: whatever doesn't.
Speaker 3: Live with me constantly.
Speaker 1: I'm not like you know, it's it's always humbling to
Speaker 1: me every time that we get to do it.
Speaker 3: And it keeps me humble because I know just who
Speaker 3: I am.
Speaker 1: I'm just a dude trying to create something, make something,
Speaker 1: and trying to make my family work and be connected
Speaker 1: to them, but also be connected to my music and
Speaker 1: my creativity, and you know, COVID happens everything, and it
Speaker 1: simplified my life in the greatest way.
Speaker 2: Meaning in a way that you didn't think you would enjoy,
Speaker 2: but it ended up being a great learning experience. You
Speaker 2: learn from it, and you wouldn't have picked it.
Speaker 3: I wouldn't have picked it because I didn't know what
Speaker 3: it meant.
Speaker 2: If someone would have said, this is what you're gonna do,
Speaker 2: this is what's going to happen, and in the end,
Speaker 2: it's gonna be good for you.
Speaker 1: I had two hundred and fifty employees when COVID man.
Speaker 2: That's that's a lot of people.
Speaker 1: It's a lot of families that depend on me to
Speaker 1: be solid and me to do things and come through
Speaker 1: and all of that. And so looking in the face
Speaker 1: of that and the uncertainty of it, I had to
Speaker 1: close things down.
Speaker 3: I had to sell my huge warehouse and some my.
Speaker 1: Equipment, sell some of my businesses to friends, which I
Speaker 1: still have a piece of, which is great because I
Speaker 1: don't have to babysit the people making it. Now I
Speaker 1: can create, you know, contribute ideas and design and things
Speaker 1: like that, and help with marketing. But I don't have
Speaker 1: to do it, but it put me in a space.
Speaker 1: And this is something that because of my curiosity and
Speaker 1: my energy level, I have a lot of energy. I
Speaker 1: learned just because you can do a lot of things
Speaker 1: doesn't mean you should.
Speaker 2: Like, if you can.
Speaker 1: Figure out how to have an acceptable amount of things
Speaker 1: that you're good at doing and focus on those, you're
Speaker 1: going to be better. You're going to be able to
Speaker 1: serve all those things way better than being spread so
Speaker 1: thin across so many different avenues.
Speaker 2: I think you have to learn. I had to learn
Speaker 2: that lesson the hard way. I had to learn that
Speaker 2: lesson by burning out a bit. Oh yeah, did you
Speaker 2: do that or did you just realize, oh, I'm smart.
Speaker 2: I'm not going to burn myself out. No.
Speaker 1: I would definitely burn myself out because then it's the
Speaker 1: little things that happen in life when you're having to like,
Speaker 1: oh shit, I've got to deal with all this shit now,
Speaker 1: and like my mental space goes down, and also thinking that.
Speaker 1: So here's another principle for people that are trying to
Speaker 1: have a business, asn't matter what you do or what
Speaker 1: it is or whatever. Your business is only as good
Speaker 1: as your systems and if your system doesn't allow. If
Speaker 1: your system has checks and balances in every possible area
Speaker 1: and doesn't allow people to take advantage, you will succeed.
Speaker 1: If there's any gap in your business where people can
Speaker 1: take advantage, they always will. And learning that the hard
Speaker 1: way was hard for me because I would get it
Speaker 1: taken of, getting taken advantage of the efficiencies of what's
Speaker 1: happening when I wasn't there to oversee what happens day
Speaker 1: to day.
Speaker 2: It was just a bleed. It was a bleed.
Speaker 1: But on paper, you hire a placement agency, a headhunter,
Speaker 1: help me find a CEO. That's the baddest motherfucker in
Speaker 1: the world, Like, help me find somebody, and you pay
Speaker 1: the money to bring this person in and you put
Speaker 1: them in that position, and you assume because of their resume,
Speaker 1: because of these things or whatever, they're going to oversee things,
Speaker 1: they're going to run toward problems. They're going to help
Speaker 1: you do this thing right. But if I'm not there
Speaker 1: to engage with that company in that business. But that's
Speaker 1: why my touring runs like a top because I have
Speaker 1: incredible people that do it. I'm there with them when
Speaker 1: we're doing it. They put out all the fires. So
Speaker 1: I don't have to be consumed with that. But in
Speaker 1: these other businesses that I had and I tried to
Speaker 1: start and go, it doesn't matter how well you hire
Speaker 1: for that, if the amount of attention that you spend there.
Speaker 1: It's like having a restaurant. If you want a successful restaurant,
Speaker 1: you need to live there, you know.
Speaker 2: But dear, I feel like the talk macro businesses. But
Speaker 2: has that happened to you personally that taught you this?
Speaker 2: Because the real lessons I've learned of things that have
Speaker 2: been happened to having me personally.
Speaker 3: Yeah, oh absolutely.
Speaker 1: One of my greatest friends, Paul, I asked him. He's
Speaker 1: got a lot of people and a lot of stuff
Speaker 1: on his plate, you know, and when you have something
Speaker 1: that happens on a personal level where it's a betrayal
Speaker 1: and you know you weren't really looking over their shoulders
Speaker 1: as much as you should have.
Speaker 3: And that's what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: The system in place when you have friends that work
Speaker 1: with you and family that works with you and things
Speaker 1: like that, When those things, when those people take advantage,
Speaker 1: it hits you on a whole other level. And I
Speaker 1: remember the first time that that happened to me, where
Speaker 1: I was like, Wow, this person is you know, suing
Speaker 1: me sure five years after the fact for something just
Speaker 1: because I was successful after they were gone, they made
Speaker 1: poor decisions, got fired or whatever, and just because my
Speaker 1: time is so valuable now, my opportunity cost and fighting
Speaker 1: this is going to be more expensive than giving them
Speaker 1: some money for what they feel entitled to. I remember
Speaker 1: that what that feels felt like that first time that
Speaker 1: that like, and that's a lot to deal with. But
Speaker 1: I think over time, like I mean, knock on wood, like,
Speaker 1: I'm pretty I'm pretty resilient. Yeah, there's probably someone this couch,
Speaker 1: but I think your resiliency as time goes on, like,
Speaker 1: you're not gonna let people steer your joy.
Speaker 3: You know you're gonna that.
Speaker 1: My buddy Paul says said, you know you breathe in,
Speaker 1: breathe out, move on.
Speaker 3: And it's and and and that's what I told him.
Speaker 1: What do you do when someone that you really love
Speaker 1: betrays you and that you're you're left in this place
Speaker 1: within whatever?
Speaker 3: And he said, it's just the cost of doing business.
Speaker 2: Can you forgive? Not in that situation, but generally are
Speaker 2: you good at forgiving?
Speaker 1: I would say, as far as being a human and
Speaker 1: being a friend, Yes, I would say yes. As far
Speaker 1: as your business and things like that, when someone shows
Speaker 1: you what they are and who they are, and you know,
Speaker 1: I keep my charity with my charity and then so
Speaker 1: in my business there's no place for that. But as
Speaker 1: far as friends and things like that, yeah, I think
Speaker 1: I've been forgiving. But I've also learned how to make
Speaker 1: my boundaries a lot more rigid. You know, I spent
Speaker 1: three years doing a full like vision spirit quest, all
Speaker 1: myself working on myself being able to draw boundaries. And
Speaker 1: once somebody shows you that they're not of the fabric
Speaker 1: to be in your circle, and you know you've given
Speaker 1: them a chance or two or whatever, then you move.
Speaker 2: Those people out of your circle.
Speaker 1: But where the forgiveness comes in is like you still
Speaker 1: wish them the best, Like somebody scues me over, It's fine,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna be okay. I just don't want them around anymore.
Speaker 1: I want them to be well, but I don't want
Speaker 1: them to be in my circle anymore.
Speaker 2: The other way though, meaning i feel like I've gotten
Speaker 2: a bit better. I got a lot of therapy, but
Speaker 2: I feel like I've gotten better at forgiving. Still like
Speaker 2: good at it, I think just because I'm so, I
Speaker 2: get in my protective shell and just don't talk to anybody.
Speaker 2: I don't have rage, but my rage is like enter right,
Speaker 2: and I just shut down. But I've also needed to
Speaker 2: be forgiven right. And I used to not even care.
Speaker 2: I would just be like, I screwed up. I'll just
Speaker 2: never go back to that person again. Yeah, Like I
Speaker 2: feel like I've grown in that. But if I'm getting
Speaker 2: better at forgiving, but I'm also getting better at actually
Speaker 2: asking and going, hey, I screwed up, Like are you are?
Speaker 2: How would you say you rate on both of those sides.
Speaker 1: Well, I don't think I'm a master of any of
Speaker 1: those things, you know. I think that's something that you
Speaker 1: that you work on as you as you go, you know.
Speaker 1: I think being able to just say I was wrong?
Speaker 2: Can you do that?
Speaker 3: I can do that.
Speaker 2: I suck at that.
Speaker 1: I can do it getting to the point where you
Speaker 1: really fully see it because there there are there's there's
Speaker 1: a lot of gray around perception, right, So it's and
Speaker 1: it's like the perception of it, and it's like when
Speaker 1: you when you hear somebody else out on their side
Speaker 1: of the story and you see how it made them
Speaker 1: feel I can empathize with that and understand, and I'm like,
Speaker 1: I can say I'm sorry for my part what I
Speaker 1: contributed to that feeling or whatever. But as my life
Speaker 1: coach that I had would say, you know, everything is
Speaker 1: a mirror, right, So she's like, Okay, what do you
Speaker 1: seek the most in a partner like you? What's the
Speaker 1: thing you seek the most? And I would say consistency
Speaker 1: and she'd say, okay, well, then you need to be
Speaker 1: more consistent with yourself. And that was like, so the
Speaker 1: things we seek in other people is actually what we
Speaker 1: need for ourselves and the things that we might be
Speaker 1: our kind of achilles here that we don't see as much.
Speaker 1: That was really interesting for me. But I'm a student
Speaker 1: to everything. I'm a student to myself, to the relationships,
Speaker 1: to whatever it is. But I've gotten better about going, Okay,
Speaker 1: this person showed me who they are and I want
Speaker 1: them to be great, but I don't want them to
Speaker 1: be around me anymore. And the more that I've done that,
Speaker 1: the more that I've kept my circle with people that
Speaker 1: are expanders for me. If they're not on the same frequency,
Speaker 1: same thing, just just because of precedent, it's just because
Speaker 1: you used to hang out with this person.
Speaker 2: It used to be great, it used to be whatever.
Speaker 1: Like you know, you, the people you surround yourself with
Speaker 1: are a direct reflection of your level of success and
Speaker 1: where you're going and what you're doing.
Speaker 2: I agree. The environment that you put yourself in or
Speaker 2: you stay in definitely manifest itself into who you are,
Speaker 2: because if you stay there long enough, that's going to
Speaker 2: be who you are, or it's going to change because
Speaker 2: of you. Right, the Bobby cast will be right back.
Speaker 4: Mm hmm, this is the Bobby Cast.
Speaker 2: You play pickle ball.
Speaker 3: I have a pickleball court at my house.
Speaker 2: I'm building one right there behind the place right now.
Speaker 1: You canna have a bridge for your dog already have
Speaker 1: a bridge for my dog that goes over the pickle
Speaker 1: ball court so he can watch.
Speaker 2: Yeah no, no, no, no, I'm not crazy. I mean
Speaker 2: we did build out of plywood a Vegas skybridge for
Speaker 2: our fat bulldog into the side yard because he would drown. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, they don't swim, they don't.
Speaker 2: Then they they just sing. He's not a big farter
Speaker 2: really yeah? No, basic? Yeah, big snore. You like bulldogs? Yeah?
Speaker 2: You have everyone?
Speaker 3: No, you have ever had one? Fad French bulldogs. Oh man,
Speaker 3: same thing.
Speaker 2: People like steal those in the street. Yeah, like just
Speaker 2: see you. They wouldn't see you and steal your dog.
Speaker 3: Though, there's things you learn about, like a tail pocket.
Speaker 2: I don't know what that is.
Speaker 3: So underneath their tail they have this prison.
Speaker 2: Hey, this is my tail pocket, Bobby.
Speaker 1: Like, if you're holding someone's immediately immediately be like all right,
Speaker 1: first day in prison, I'll hold your pocket And they're like, no,
Speaker 1: you don't have to do that.
Speaker 2: No I will, I'll do I know my right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well that's that's a good self defense mechanism. What's
Speaker 1: what's a tail pocket? So frenchies have like underneath their tail,
Speaker 1: they have this little like cavern where their little gnarly tail.
Speaker 1: First of all, bulldogs haven't been able to procreate. They
Speaker 1: would be extinct already. They're like the Dodo bird of dogs, right.
Speaker 1: So so it's a process to doing all that you know,
Speaker 1: like you know, and then you find out things about
Speaker 1: them at you have them, like oh, the tail pocket
Speaker 1: is infected. It's like this weird moist place that's on
Speaker 1: the back side of the dog, and it's like, you know,
Speaker 1: that's an ish, that's a thing. So you learn weird
Speaker 1: things when you have dogs. It should be dead, but
Speaker 1: they're not, should be extinct.
Speaker 2: So you spend a whole lot of money on yours
Speaker 2: because it was always sick. And uh, it's because a
Speaker 2: hundred years of genetic.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean that's that's our story with his dog. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 3: it's it's wild. I mean, there are cool they're like
Speaker 3: little gargoyles.
Speaker 2: He's the greatest. Yeah, and he's actually not that much
Speaker 2: of an idiot. He likes to sleep a lot now,
Speaker 2: but he's awesome. But yeah, he's because they just genetically
Speaker 2: aren't supposed to exist. Yeah, and there's been so much inbreeding.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: People would say the same thing about people from Arkansas.
Speaker 2: But I'm here. Hey, look at me.
Speaker 3: You're doing great.
Speaker 2: I gotta I got a bridge for my dog to
Speaker 2: walk over. You're pretty good.
Speaker 3: But it should be in the Arkansas Hall of Fame
Speaker 3: for that dog bridge.
Speaker 2: Bro.
Speaker 3: I don't know if anybody in Arkansas has a dog bridge.
Speaker 2: I think I got into that when I just drove
Speaker 2: across the border. Yeah, it was like I'm gonna I'm
Speaker 2: gonna be somebody, and they were like, you're in the
Speaker 2: Hall of fame. What's it. What are you a good
Speaker 2: pickleball player?
Speaker 3: I'm learning, I'm learning, I'm working on it.
Speaker 1: I me and the kids are out there and it's
Speaker 1: just that time of year now too, where it's fun
Speaker 1: where we're out there doing it. And what's weird about
Speaker 1: it is you get a little bit better every time
Speaker 1: you play. Just learn how to hit it and keep
Speaker 1: it in the bounds. But I love anything that is
Speaker 1: active and you're exercising without thinking about exercising.
Speaker 2: That's my whole thing too, Like I will work out
Speaker 2: three or four times when my trainer. It sucks. I
Speaker 2: hate exercise. I hate for the sake of exercise. I'll
Speaker 2: do it, and I do do it, but I hate it.
Speaker 2: But I love being act I like competing yeah, and
Speaker 2: then you're exercising yeah, and you're like, man, that was fun,
Speaker 2: and I just like totally, I don't have to go
Speaker 2: to bench press right now. I will. I'm pretty good.
Speaker 2: I did like two sixty. Look at me, not that
Speaker 2: big a dude. Awesome to sixty. I'm old too, That's
Speaker 2: why I shouldn't be doing max reps. I've done this
Speaker 2: in high school. But I was like, let's see what
Speaker 2: I can do now.
Speaker 1: I hired a trainer about four months ago, and his
Speaker 1: approach to everything is completely different than anything I've ever
Speaker 1: seen or done.
Speaker 2: And eat during the lesson or whatev.
Speaker 1: Seventy five percent of the workout is rolling on folam rollers, pasture, ball,
Speaker 1: lacrosse balls, peanuts super important.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and that's how you keep the old man out.
Speaker 2: I never got flexible and ever in my whole life
Speaker 2: until like the last year. Spent so much time stretching,
Speaker 2: and it has helped my performance. Like I don't know
Speaker 2: what I'm doing, it has helped. I did tear my
Speaker 2: My labor's good, but my rotator cuff tour twice right now.
Speaker 2: It sucks. But I'm here doing this interview. I show
Speaker 2: up so we'll be.
Speaker 3: Talked about labs on.
Speaker 2: Las laboram two different things. See, I got a book
Speaker 2: for you to read. Make sure it's called a medical journal.
Speaker 3: Okay, what do you so?
Speaker 2: What's what's fun for you right now? What's fun? Like?
Speaker 2: I'm going to play pickleball my buddy when this is over.
Speaker 2: I've been working since like four this morning. Awesome, just
Speaker 2: a normal day, right. But what I do if I
Speaker 2: get a second is I'm going to go play pickleball
Speaker 2: when this is over. And that's how I don't think
Speaker 2: about things for a minute until my mind starts running again.
Speaker 2: What is that for you?
Speaker 1: Two things right now? So Thursday tomorrow, I'm gonna go
Speaker 1: bow fishing. So I have a bowt fishing boat. You
Speaker 1: got to go to the coast though, right, No, on
Speaker 1: the river here?
Speaker 2: Oh got it? Yeah, you have a boat fishing boat
Speaker 2: on the river. Yeah, that'll be like having a yacht
Speaker 2: on the lake.
Speaker 1: It's just a dis aluminum boat, that's not It just
Speaker 1: had lights all the way around it. So you go
Speaker 1: up front and you have a bow and arrow with
Speaker 1: a with a reel on the so.
Speaker 2: It's a it's a like on the bottle bttom or
Speaker 2: whatever kind of boat. But then you just you kind
Speaker 2: of gear it to be up. Yeah.
Speaker 1: You run around at night and it shines the lights
Speaker 1: and you can see where the fish are laid up
Speaker 1: along the banks, and.
Speaker 3: You you miss a lot, but when you shoot and
Speaker 3: you hit them, it's fun.
Speaker 2: The bow attached you pull it back or is it gone? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Yeah, it has the arrows attached to a bottle of string,
Speaker 1: and then you have a reel that reels that back
Speaker 1: end so you shoot a big fish and then squeeze
Speaker 1: a little handle and you reel the fish in pull
Speaker 1: in that boat. There a fight you Oh, yeah, they don't. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they don't want to come in, so they don't. You
Speaker 1: don't kill them immediately, No, not necessarily. I mean if
Speaker 1: you can, if you hit them in the head on
Speaker 1: the right spot. So another my greatest source of that
Speaker 1: recharge for me is spearfishing.
Speaker 2: That's got to be on the coast, right Usually usually.
Speaker 3: It's in the ocean. Yeah, but like Nationals last year
Speaker 3: was held in a big lake.
Speaker 1: So Nationals, Yeah, there's competition, there's world teams. No, I
Speaker 1: didn't compete, but it's my absolute favorite thing. So free
Speaker 1: diving and diving, diving down and hunting fish.
Speaker 2: You me, you free dive, yes, then you go and
Speaker 2: you hunt fish. Yes. Do you have to train and
Speaker 2: just holding your breath, yes, you do.
Speaker 3: And you have to learn how to relax.
Speaker 1: You have to learn how to lower your heart rate
Speaker 1: when you get in the water so you have more
Speaker 1: time when you're holding your breath and you dive down
Speaker 1: and swim down, you know. But I have friends that
Speaker 1: I go with that are like my buddy justin Lee's
Speaker 1: like one of the best in the world. He won
Speaker 1: nationals last year the year before, and you know he
Speaker 1: can go two hundred feet free diving and go down
Speaker 1: and shoot fish two hundred feet down with no tank,
Speaker 1: no nothing, just just a spear and some weights and
Speaker 1: fins and a mask.
Speaker 2: But you only do that wrong once it's over. It's
Speaker 2: not like you can do it wrong and get I
Speaker 2: mean you do that wrong once. Yeah, but you go
Speaker 2: you usually have somebody in the water with you.
Speaker 1: You want to have someone that that's you know, spotter
Speaker 1: good enough to be there to kind of keep an
Speaker 1: eye on in case you have a blackout or whatever.
Speaker 3: But like this is Fiji, this this last year.
Speaker 2: What that fish looks as taller like and I've been
Speaker 2: that's saltwater.
Speaker 3: Right, saltwater? Yeah, God dang, it's a dog tooth tuna.
Speaker 2: I feel like you could crawl in the mouth of
Speaker 2: that thing.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, it's it's I mean there it is out
Speaker 3: of the water.
Speaker 2: Oh you could. It's as big as you are. So
Speaker 2: how did you get into freaking spearfishing?
Speaker 1: I went to the Bahamas and this old Bohemian guy
Speaker 1: that was there, it's like a legend guy took me
Speaker 1: spearfishing one time. It's like fourteen years ago, and I
Speaker 1: just fell in love with it.
Speaker 2: I feel like.
Speaker 1: You're challenging your breath, you're challenging the ocean, you're challenging
Speaker 1: the fish, you're challenging the weather. It's like it's this
Speaker 1: whole thing. But for me, it's one of the activities.
Speaker 1: When I'm doing that. When I'm diving down, there's no chatter.
Speaker 1: Chatter doesn't exist, so you're you're only in that moment
Speaker 1: and it's so primal and you're so just connected to
Speaker 1: the ocean and nothing else, and you feel small and
Speaker 1: the greatest possible way.
Speaker 2: Do you have trouble sleeping? Generally, no, unaided You can
Speaker 2: just go to sleep.
Speaker 1: I take I take magnesium three and eight and magnesium stuff.
Speaker 2: You know, Like, I don't know, you can go to sleep. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: I would think a guy like I. I don't really
Speaker 2: I don't feel like I have anxiety in any way
Speaker 2: until I fall asleep, and then I wake up, and
Speaker 2: I feel like that's when it kind of sits and
Speaker 2: wakes it because I don't feel anxious, like I'm rocking. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: I can get a lot done.
Speaker 1: Yeah well yeah, I have an overactive brain, for sure.
Speaker 3: But and so my thing for me. You may tell
Speaker 3: you a secret that a lot of people don't know.
Speaker 2: Well, if it's gonna be a secret, i'll turn a
Speaker 2: mic off.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well it's okay, we'll leave it on, all right,
Speaker 1: and whatever judgment might be out there. I use a
Speaker 1: pea bottle through the night to just pee in the bottle,
Speaker 1: pee in the bottle, because I got used to doing
Speaker 1: that when I'm touring, because you're riding. You know, we
Speaker 1: played three four shows in a row, so sleeping on
Speaker 1: my bus, the bus is going down the road during
Speaker 1: that day. For my voice, I drank two gallons of water.
Speaker 1: So through the night I'm gonna pee two or three times.
Speaker 1: So I have to get my pea bottle right by
Speaker 1: the bed and you peeing it. Yeah, if you get
Speaker 1: up on a moving bus, and I have an overactive brain, anyway,
Speaker 1: you get up, you stub your toe, you bash your
Speaker 1: head in the wall, you're awake, and then it.
Speaker 2: Throws you off.
Speaker 1: So for people that have to do that, they make
Speaker 1: nice big ones with lids, so it's not doesn't stink,
Speaker 1: it doesn't spill.
Speaker 3: It's like, you know the deal.
Speaker 2: But you can't. You can't promise it doesn't stink, it
Speaker 2: may not spill.
Speaker 1: Well, I'm not saying you stick, you're facing it. I'm
Speaker 1: just saying it to someone if someone else was around.
Speaker 1: It's not like you're gonna smell this thing happening. And
Speaker 1: I rent it out every day. But little things man one.
Speaker 2: Step ahead of that. I just stay dehydrated.
Speaker 3: That's that's not an option for me.
Speaker 2: You never got to get up and pe if you're dehydrated.
Speaker 3: That's true. And then it's brown, right, that's right.
Speaker 2: It's all different colors. Yeah, it's never sometimes bloody. Okay,
Speaker 2: it's never bloody. Okiddy, what's the other trick you're about,
Speaker 2: Tell me another one, Give me another one.
Speaker 1: So as a singer, you seen that pure gum. It's like,
Speaker 1: you know, no no sweet no bad sweetener or whatever.
Speaker 1: Yeah and whatever. So this is a thing that I
Speaker 1: learned because I'll sleep on the bus and I'd wake
Speaker 1: up if I wake up on my back with my
Speaker 1: mouth open and I've been breathing and it's you know,
Speaker 1: it's sucking all the moisture out of the air. There's
Speaker 1: like three percent humidity. My throat will be dry and
Speaker 1: i'd lose my voice the next day. So I sleep
Speaker 1: with eight pieces of gum in my mouth when I
Speaker 1: sleep at night, and it keeps saliva keeps going, it
Speaker 1: keeps my throat from drying out.
Speaker 2: That's interesting. I think I would choke because I have it. Well,
Speaker 2: it's a big enough piece.
Speaker 1: It's not just like a little one where it's going
Speaker 1: to come out and be stuck in my beard or
Speaker 1: something like that. So I you know, there's a little
Speaker 1: like they look like chick lits or whatever, but it's
Speaker 1: like healthy gum.
Speaker 2: No, I have the gum.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I chew the gum. So I sleep with that
Speaker 1: in my mouth now, and that keeps me from getting
Speaker 1: dried out. It keeps me from losing my voice. So basically,
Speaker 1: if I'm just playing guitar or building knives or whatever
Speaker 1: I'm doing, I can go.
Speaker 3: I can go on no sleep. I can do that
Speaker 3: for a week or two at a time.
Speaker 1: If what I'm just saying, like, if you get four
Speaker 1: hours of sleep at night, it's fine.
Speaker 2: Your voice is like taking care of a baby. If
Speaker 2: you can do that, it's don't have a voice.
Speaker 1: No, I'm saying, I can't my voice. Taking care of
Speaker 1: my voice is like taking care of a body. If
Speaker 1: I don't sleep, if I don't nap, if I don't hydrate,
Speaker 1: if I don't chew my gum, if I don't use
Speaker 1: my pea bottle to keep from waking up in the
Speaker 1: middle of the night, if I don't do all of
Speaker 1: those things, if I don't do my CARDI So I
Speaker 1: have a regimen like before I go. You know, when
Speaker 1: I get up in the morning on the road, I'll
Speaker 1: go do something in the city for a few hours,
Speaker 1: come back, take a nap, I wake up, I eat something,
Speaker 1: I work out to wake my voice back up again,
Speaker 1: and then I come back in. I do a steam
Speaker 1: shower to hidrate my voice. I've been drinking water all
Speaker 1: day with this. Then I'll get cleaned up, do my
Speaker 1: meet and greet, say hey everybody or whatever. Then I
Speaker 1: come do my vocal warm ups with my vocal coachs.
Speaker 1: Then I do my vocal warm ups with my band,
Speaker 1: and then we play the show. If any of that
Speaker 1: gets screwed up, if I don't get enough sleep, if
Speaker 1: I don't hydrate, any of those pieces don't fall in line,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna lose my voice.
Speaker 2: Okay, but how much of that is your mind making
Speaker 2: you lose your voice versus your body going I didn't
Speaker 2: get what I needed. I'm losing my voice.
Speaker 1: Oh, it's one hundred percent your body like it. It's
Speaker 1: not a my mind.
Speaker 2: I don't think that a bit of your mind. If
Speaker 2: you miss one of them, you're gonna Because I freak
Speaker 2: out all the time about sleep because I have to
Speaker 2: talk for five hours a day, just just the morning
Speaker 2: part of the show, Right, I freak out about sleep.
Speaker 2: But if I freak out a whole lot, it then
Speaker 2: manifest itself and meat like my body start not to
Speaker 2: sleep the first or second time, but my psychological issue
Speaker 2: then manifest itself into me losing my voice, which was
Speaker 2: what I was scared about to begin with, which wouldn't
Speaker 2: have happened to had it not.
Speaker 1: Freaked out about it right right, Well, your cortisol, I
Speaker 1: was like, ues could go up from stress where you're
Speaker 1: like affecting your wellness for that day or whatever.
Speaker 3: That can definitely play into it. Because nights I try
Speaker 3: to go to bed super early.
Speaker 2: I wake up at like.
Speaker 1: Two in the morning, why fucking awake, and I can't
Speaker 1: do anything. So I kind of know what those things are.
Speaker 1: But also the sleep cocktail that I take is magnesium
Speaker 1: three and eight, which I learned this from Andrew Huberman.
Speaker 3: I don't know if you listen to his podcast. He's brilliant physically.
Speaker 2: You guys remind me of each other, Like he's all
Speaker 2: tatted up and like, yeah, super smart, and he talks
Speaker 2: like you and you're like, oh, guys are actually really
Speaker 2: smart and can beat me up. That sucks. That's how
Speaker 2: That's what I said, Go ahead.
Speaker 1: So I take magnesium three and eight, which is the
Speaker 1: only magnesium that breaks the blood brain barrier, so it
Speaker 1: actually relaxes your mind as well as your body when
Speaker 1: you're sleeping.
Speaker 3: And then I take theenine l theenine, and then I.
Speaker 1: Use this other little score bottles called lipocalm and it's
Speaker 1: like Quicksilver Labs makes the stuff and it's I could
Speaker 1: turn you onto it. So if I do those things
Speaker 1: thirty minutes after I take those or whatever, I'll feel
Speaker 1: more tired. But also if I've gotten my workouts and
Speaker 1: my stretching and everything in that day, I'm also kind
Speaker 1: of there if I don't. And caffeine's a big thing
Speaker 1: for me too, So I can't drink caffeine on show days.
Speaker 1: At all because it's a diuretic. It makes you flush water,
Speaker 1: which makes you dehydrated. So you know, the amount of
Speaker 1: caffeine that you take, and doing it earlier in the
Speaker 1: day is good rather than later because that disturbs my sleep.
Speaker 3: It makes me. I feel caffeine in my teeth.
Speaker 1: If I drink like a big latte or something like,
Speaker 1: I feel it in my teeths ahile like my teeth
Speaker 1: and feel tighteror weird. It's like a weird thing, like
Speaker 1: it affects me. So I'm sensitive to those kind of chemicals.
Speaker 1: But if I take my sleep cocktail and I've worked
Speaker 1: out that day and I've kind of you know, and
Speaker 1: the other thing is just like trying to reduce the stress.
Speaker 1: Like that's what Covid did for me, because having nineteen
Speaker 1: businesses and trying to stay on top of those things
Speaker 1: and just it's.
Speaker 3: A matter of math.
Speaker 1: If you have great people and there's only drawing my
Speaker 1: five percent of the time, when you have two hundred
Speaker 1: and fifty people, there's always eleven people that have a
Speaker 1: problem and you have to help deal with that problem.
Speaker 1: So the less brain damage that I put myself through,
Speaker 1: the better I am. The less quartersol that I have
Speaker 1: and the more chill that I'm going to be, so
Speaker 1: that helps you to sleep as well. So you know,
Speaker 1: if I focus on the things, that is just the
Speaker 1: absolute best use of my time and and the things
Speaker 1: that I enjoy spirit fishing.
Speaker 3: I also really enjoy playing Fortnite.
Speaker 2: I like to play Madden. I play my friends, only
Speaker 2: my friends, but I lay Madden too. But I play,
Speaker 2: and it's the only time I can really that or
Speaker 2: like pickleballs, when I can turn my brain off, and
Speaker 2: that's it.
Speaker 1: That's how I mind fuck myself into exercising. I would
Speaker 1: go down to my arc trainer and I would play
Speaker 1: Madden for an hour. And while I'm on the arc trainer,
Speaker 1: like just moving my feet playing a game of Madden.
Speaker 3: So in my head, I'm going down to play Madden.
Speaker 1: But then that turned into Fortnite, and so now I play,
Speaker 1: and I got a bunch of my friends are telling
Speaker 1: me that I need to stream and do that stuff too.
Speaker 1: It's but playing with my ca kids and then playing
Speaker 1: with my friends all over that play and that's not
Speaker 1: something I sit around the house doing all day like
Speaker 1: I do that usually at night when after everything's kind
Speaker 1: of done. But that's a great escape for me as
Speaker 1: well because it's competitive and you get better at it
Speaker 1: as you as you go and do those things. But
Speaker 1: so that's that's a fun thing that I like to do.
Speaker 4: Let's take a quick pause for a message from our sponsor.
Speaker 4: Welcome back to the Bobby Cast.
Speaker 2: Only gonna keep you like five or six more minutes.
Speaker 2: But I got a few things. I'm gonna ask you
Speaker 2: a question that my therapist asked me, but in a
Speaker 2: very complimentary way where I'll go in and they'll say
Speaker 2: one of my two we go to a couple's councilor too,
Speaker 2: best thing we ever did before. We just we committed
Speaker 2: to it very early on. It's very it's always uncomfortable
Speaker 2: because it's like you, you don't go in to celebrate,
Speaker 2: you know, but do that. I don't go and by
Speaker 2: myself to celebrate. You go in you like to you
Speaker 2: just as a fish as possible. And I go in
Speaker 2: and it's like, what are you working on now? It's
Speaker 2: like I'm writing a book, or I'm doing the radio show,
Speaker 2: or I'm touring or that day is like, okay, what
Speaker 2: are you running from? Because I fill up every minute
Speaker 2: of every day hearing you talk about everything that you're doing.
Speaker 2: What are you running from? What are you running too?
Speaker 2: Why so much all the time?
Speaker 1: Again, I say that I've actually cut back a lot,
Speaker 1: like I was forced to cut back a lot, and
Speaker 1: then I realized the value in that that I shouldn't
Speaker 1: have been doing all of those things. I shouldn't have
Speaker 1: been taking up so much of my capacity, because my
Speaker 1: creativity is buried underneath the fucking chatter and the effort
Speaker 1: it takes to just try to get things even.
Speaker 3: So I'm running toward that. I'm running towards ease.
Speaker 1: I'm running towards choosing an acceptable amount of things to
Speaker 1: get done in a day, and to try to do
Speaker 1: those things really well. I'm running toward trying to be
Speaker 1: in the best shape that I've ever been in, you know,
Speaker 1: nutrition wise, investing, you know, you turn forty, your warranty
Speaker 1: runs out.
Speaker 2: I hurt all the time.
Speaker 1: And so if you don't, if you don't start investing
Speaker 1: in all the things that make you feel good, then
Speaker 1: your life experience. You can either suffer your whole life,
Speaker 1: or you can suffer a little bit every day and
Speaker 1: just do these things that help make you feel better,
Speaker 1: so you have more to give and more to do that,
Speaker 1: because that's the sugar man, the greatest thing, the real
Speaker 1: joy comes from serving other people.
Speaker 2: Well, what were you running from? Then? Sounds like you're
Speaker 2: healthier now running from? Yeah, I mean you do one
Speaker 2: hundred and seven things. What are you trying to do it?
Speaker 2: What are you running from?
Speaker 1: I guess I'm running from old versions of myself and
Speaker 1: trying to be better, you know, I'm running from I'm
Speaker 1: running from the patterns that I would find myself in.
Speaker 1: And it's like, how did I end up here again?
Speaker 1: And it's by my choices, and it's things that aren't
Speaker 1: always intuitive, you know. I mean, being too generous can
Speaker 1: end you up in really bad situations.
Speaker 3: That's that's my nature.
Speaker 1: My nature's to do that because I always want to
Speaker 1: feel I always want to err on the side of
Speaker 1: generosity with people, even if they do me wrong. I
Speaker 1: want to end on the side of generosity, not for them,
Speaker 1: for me, because I don't ever have to look back
Speaker 1: and think I didn't do the right thing in that moment. So,
Speaker 1: but if you're too generous with people, if you give
Speaker 1: people cars and houses and things like that or whatever,
Speaker 1: it kind of ignites a certain kind of greed or
Speaker 1: entitlement in them. Then it changes the relationship and it's
Speaker 1: kind of like the right the wrong. The part of
Speaker 1: human nature that reacts to that is, well, why don't
Speaker 1: you give me more? Where's the next thing? How's that
Speaker 1: going to becoming? How's it going to be doing? So
Speaker 1: the old part of myself like studying the old part
Speaker 1: of myself and the ways I was fucking up my
Speaker 1: current state of zen were doing things that I felt like, well,
Speaker 1: I have enough to give. I want to share this
Speaker 1: with people or whatever. Being more careful of how I
Speaker 1: share that preserves the relationship a lot better. So just
Speaker 1: telling someone that works for me, hey, an awesome job,
Speaker 1: thank you, you kill it, and then you know there's
Speaker 1: a Christmas gift and a bonus or whatever it is,
Speaker 1: but not being not interjecting my generosity into these things
Speaker 1: too far because it ends up having a negative result
Speaker 1: even though it was a positive thing.
Speaker 3: So I'm learning.
Speaker 1: I'm trying to learn that within my my interpersonal relationships,
Speaker 1: and you know, if I'm dating someone or whatever, it's like,
Speaker 1: what is that level of doing it? Because I'm a
Speaker 1: give all motherfucker. That's just how I'm made. So I
Speaker 1: have to limit some of that sometimes in some ways bio.
Speaker 2: That might change my bio to give all, but that
Speaker 2: in mind, that's what I want to recalled. Yeah, I
Speaker 2: give all.
Speaker 3: I like to put myself into things and I like
Speaker 3: to love on my people.
Speaker 2: But are the way that you do that?
Speaker 3: Sometimes?
Speaker 1: There's a really badass book called Sway. That book was
Speaker 1: very enlightening. They did all these studies of like, you
Speaker 1: know how what someone intuitively, what we do intuitively is like, hey,
Speaker 1: if you want to fix this, give them some money
Speaker 1: so to help them fix their problem.
Speaker 3: But they don't spend the money on fixing their problem.
Speaker 1: They spend it on something else and then they're just
Speaker 1: asking for my money and it just makes the problem worse.
Speaker 2: So it's a right, right, but there's a psychology.
Speaker 1: Around it all. It's like, can somebody give me tools?
Speaker 1: And that's why I do therapy as well. That's why
Speaker 1: I applaud you for doing it, because we're not born
Speaker 1: with these tools, right.
Speaker 3: We need we need things to go. What do we
Speaker 3: do when this thing happens?
Speaker 1: And it's like, here's a tool, and if you practice
Speaker 1: that long enough you can see a result, Like I'm
Speaker 1: getting a better result in my life because I was
Speaker 1: given this tool to do this, So doing therapy, finding people, mentors,
Speaker 1: asking questions, getting as much as many tools as you
Speaker 1: can so that you can handle these things in a
Speaker 1: good way and have a better result, because the results
Speaker 1: really all that matters. Like and it's like, Okay, I
Speaker 1: have to do these hard things. I have to not
Speaker 1: give myself fully in these ways to get a better result.
Speaker 1: And so I'm just always curious, like what is that?
Speaker 1: What's the tool?
Speaker 2: Tell me? Tell me what's you know? Because I don't.
Speaker 1: I'm not someone that really lives on ego around things.
Speaker 1: You know, if somebody has a better way of doing something,
Speaker 1: that's why it works great when you find the right songwriter.
Speaker 1: The best idea wins. Always doesn't have to be my idea.
Speaker 1: I don't care. But you both know it when you're
Speaker 1: with somebody and you can lay your ego down and
Speaker 1: you write something and somebody comes up with something and
Speaker 1: you're like, there it is.
Speaker 3: We've been looking for that for two hours.
Speaker 2: There it is.
Speaker 3: We both can recognize it, and it's like, fuck, that's awesome.
Speaker 1: Or ten years or ten years, Yeah, it may take
Speaker 1: ten years to get the right thing, but you know,
Speaker 1: what you shouldn't compromise, you know, to get things to
Speaker 1: that level ten experience, like do you want to write
Speaker 1: something it's okay, you want to write something that's fucking great,
Speaker 1: and then you're always hear and you're like, I got
Speaker 1: every line of that song the way I wanted it,
Speaker 1: and that's all that matters. It's not really about it
Speaker 1: being perfect, because you're never going to be perfect. Let's
Speaker 1: get it where you want it.
Speaker 2: Got two final questions for you. It seems from thirty
Speaker 2: thousand feet up that you and your band are closer
Speaker 2: than the average person in their band. And I don't
Speaker 2: know this specific relationship you have with every one of them,
Speaker 2: and that's not what I'm asking. But if that is true,
Speaker 2: how do you stay a boss and a friend. I've
Speaker 2: hired all my friends my whole life. Yeah, seventeen twenty years.
Speaker 2: I've had to learn by doing things wrong on how
Speaker 2: to be a boss and a friend. And you can
Speaker 2: do it both. But it is tricky. But what is
Speaker 2: it for you? How do you do it?
Speaker 1: It comes along with a lot of time. It comes
Speaker 1: along with them really trusting my judgment on things. They
Speaker 1: don't question my judgment anymore. I think in the beginning,
Speaker 1: I had to stand up and say, look, if there's
Speaker 1: eight ideas and everybody wants their idea to win, there's
Speaker 1: not ever a solution.
Speaker 3: You can't ever finish anything.
Speaker 1: But I think the people in my band, we all
Speaker 1: love each other and we trust each other and also
Speaker 1: trust them to challenge me if there's something that's like, hey,
Speaker 1: they think this can be better, let me listen to here.
Speaker 1: My bass player just text me the other day. He
Speaker 1: sent me a version of a song that we did
Speaker 1: last week, and I thought one of my guys missed
Speaker 1: an entrance on the thing. I'm like, hey, remind them
Speaker 1: that they missed the interests And he sent it to
Speaker 1: me and it was actually me, I missed my entrance
Speaker 1: to it, which you know, he came in at the
Speaker 1: right place, but in my mind, I thought he needs
Speaker 1: to be mindful of that or whatever. And he was like,
Speaker 1: I'm not trying to challenge you. I'm like, dude, always
Speaker 1: challenge me if I'm wrong.
Speaker 2: You know, to win though. Yeah, So Mike, while you laughing, buddy,
Speaker 2: you got it win if you points something out like that.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, I'm just saying, yeah, I agree, like challenge,
Speaker 2: but if you do, you better make sure you win. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Well, and to me that that's the thing and having
Speaker 1: incredible people. The people in my band are all exceptional
Speaker 1: human beings. They're all dynamic people, but we share a
Speaker 1: love for music, every one of us, and we all
Speaker 1: want to get it right. Because there's nine people in
Speaker 1: the band, right, if everybody's playing on something, what.
Speaker 3: You don't play is just as important as what you do.
Speaker 1: So a lot of times we'll go in, all nine
Speaker 1: of us will play something, then I'll subtract sixty percent
Speaker 1: of all of it and that's what serves the song.
Speaker 1: But they ultimately know and can trust I'm going to
Speaker 1: pick what serves the song, and then they play their
Speaker 1: role in doing that. So they're like the ultimate orchestra
Speaker 1: for me. They're as much or as little as it
Speaker 1: needs to be for that thing, whatever serves it, and
Speaker 1: they don't have egos about it. We don't have egos
Speaker 1: about arriving at the best solution, and I think that's
Speaker 1: what makes it go around. But I can't I watch
Speaker 1: like the Egos documentary, like they.
Speaker 2: Hated each other. I couldn't.
Speaker 1: I could not work or live in an environment where
Speaker 1: I hated the people I worked with.
Speaker 2: I'm not capable. I'm too close to that people, I
Speaker 2: mean literally physically too close to have to hate and act.
Speaker 2: And if I'm acting and I'm uncomfortable, I'm not creating
Speaker 2: at my best.
Speaker 1: So bad energy, bad vibes does not work, and it
Speaker 1: takes sucks away the creativity. And I'm so blessed to
Speaker 1: have the band that I have because they're all extraordinary
Speaker 1: human beings and extraordinary musicians, and we all serve the
Speaker 1: song and we serve the live performance. Whatever makes that
Speaker 1: the best, that's what we do. But ultimately someone has
Speaker 1: to be the leader, and they're trust me with that role,
Speaker 1: and I have to have last say on whatever. It is,
Speaker 1: not for my ego, but because my instincts have gotten
Speaker 1: us where we are and they trust my instincts, and
Speaker 1: that was earned.
Speaker 3: Doesn't just happen.
Speaker 2: I feel like you're saying what I think all the time.
Speaker 2: I'm just gonna play this. People listen to what Zach says,
Speaker 2: but it's actually like, okay, look two things, not even
Speaker 2: questions too. I want to We talked about a lot
Speaker 2: of the new music the ACM before you came in,
Speaker 2: so all the business was covered. I wanted to spend
Speaker 2: this time just kind of get to know you in
Speaker 2: a way that I've never really got to know you
Speaker 2: although we've spent time together. Yeah, you rarely get like
Speaker 2: this forced intimacy, which is what this is in the
Speaker 2: best way.
Speaker 3: Yeah, because it's not pulling on us or whatever.
Speaker 2: So two things. Number One, I will say it again.
Speaker 2: I've said it to you and I've said it to
Speaker 2: other people. I believe with all my heart that you
Speaker 2: guys are the greatest country band to ever exist.
Speaker 3: Thank you. That's a huge honor.
Speaker 2: And there are some there's some good ones, there's some
Speaker 2: great ones. But I do think that what you have
Speaker 2: produced and what you have kept consistent is and I
Speaker 2: don't even want to put you in the band category,
Speaker 2: but I will because you're a band for the I
Speaker 2: do think you're the greatest country band of all time.
Speaker 2: And I think there were real misses too, where not
Speaker 2: by you, but by the industry, which again, you can't
Speaker 2: care about the industry to create how you create, and
Speaker 2: that's part of how you create. And at times, and
Speaker 2: I've been I'm not going to even say victim, the
Speaker 2: victim of it where I do things my way, but
Speaker 2: I can't be mad. Sometimes when the industry goes, we
Speaker 2: don't like it, so we're not gonna ward you things,
Speaker 2: right because I do things that are absolutely counter of
Speaker 2: what I've been told I'm supposed to do. I do
Speaker 2: think there have been times where you guys were you
Speaker 2: just undeservingly didn't get what you deserved. Because we're gonna
Speaker 2: look back in twenty years and you know you're gonna
Speaker 2: be sixty something and it's going to be known. It's like,
Speaker 2: oh yeah, obviously that was the Derek Jeter of I mean,
Speaker 2: you guys do that, but you're still in it. You're
Speaker 2: still in your prime right now, and it's really rare,
Speaker 2: I think to understand what an artist is in the
Speaker 2: middle of being awesome and they're still doing it. A
Speaker 2: lot of times we just know later I look at
Speaker 2: that body of work, who even knew they were that great?
Speaker 2: So that's a compliment for me to you. I believe
Speaker 2: the greatest country band in the history, and not even
Speaker 2: in the band space and live aside from the music
Speaker 2: that you make and produce, it's the best live band show.
Speaker 2: I've never actually considered like it'd be Top three, and
Speaker 2: I wouldn't even have a ranking i've ever seen you
Speaker 2: guys are that good?
Speaker 3: Thank you?
Speaker 2: Uh so I want to say that. And I don't
Speaker 2: know if whatever awards you're up for. We talked about
Speaker 2: the Acmosulf. I hope you win everything. I know what
Speaker 2: it's like to not win, to be like, well this sucks.
Speaker 2: But then I got to go, you know what, you
Speaker 2: don't play by the rules, So why do you expect
Speaker 2: to be rewarded by the rules.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I can't. You can't be measured by those wins.
Speaker 2: I still get but I still get up. I still
Speaker 2: get mad sometimes.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I get mad for other people too. I get
Speaker 1: mad for people that really deserve to be heard. And
Speaker 1: I wish I wish in some ways that country music
Speaker 1: was like the Olympics, right, that the people that are
Speaker 1: the most extraordinary and then they write the most extraordinary
Speaker 1: things would be the ones that get the attention and
Speaker 1: get those things. Sugenctive though it is, it is, I
Speaker 1: mean it's very and it's like, you know, who's the
Speaker 1: greatest guitar player ever? Like they're it's you can't really
Speaker 1: decide that that thing. I wish that there was sometimes
Speaker 1: a little bit higher bar for what is accepted and celebrated,
Speaker 1: but those people aren't the most exploited sometimes and living
Speaker 1: outside of those things. So we accept our wins every
Speaker 1: night that we sell out a stadium, every night, that
Speaker 1: we sell out a ballpark, like, that's that for us
Speaker 1: is our wins. So we win our awards every night
Speaker 1: and our mind my band of that. It's hard bringing
Speaker 1: my band to ordshow after ward show after ward show
Speaker 1: and never winning. But we're not really one of their
Speaker 1: horses necessarily, So that's okay because we don't have to
Speaker 1: be anything other than ourselves and we get to play
Speaker 1: for people, and we get to do what we love
Speaker 1: to do, and we fucking win.
Speaker 2: And what kept you from winning awards is what made
Speaker 2: you wildly successful at the same time, Yeah, for sure
Speaker 2: doing it differently, Like so I wanted to say that
Speaker 2: to you. And then secondly, uh, I don't know what.
Speaker 2: I don't know what Kenny's thinking. He said, come on
Speaker 2: after you, guys. He's out of his mind. He's out
Speaker 2: of his and I love Kenny, and Kenny doesn't like
Speaker 2: nobody have ever seen, he plays stadiums. He's that guy.
Speaker 2: If there's one artist I am not coming on after,
Speaker 2: it's you, guys. What is he thinking.
Speaker 1: I love I love Kenny's you know tenacity man, He's
Speaker 1: he's great. And I watched I watched the first half
Speaker 1: of the show after he played or whatever, and he's
Speaker 1: bringing the energy, man, he's bringing the love and pulling
Speaker 1: those things together. And his model, he created his own model.
Speaker 1: You know, he's not it's his own promoter, his own
Speaker 1: I mean, he works with his own group to do everything, management, everything.
Speaker 1: So Kenny, I tip my hat to Kenny because you
Speaker 1: know he's a force man and he's he's done it.
Speaker 1: And when when this thing came up to being able
Speaker 1: to do it, and you know the big thing, my baby.
Speaker 3: Next year we're going into the sphere.
Speaker 2: You are going to do that or you want to
Speaker 2: do we are.
Speaker 1: Really we're going in the sphere. We're gonna do a
Speaker 1: residin see the sphere, my baby. And so this year,
Speaker 1: because of the Kenny opportunity, we're only playing basically one
Speaker 1: day a week, but that gives me six days a
Speaker 1: week that I don't have my kids that I can
Speaker 1: work on my baby, which is the sphere and what
Speaker 1: we're going to do in the.
Speaker 2: Sphere visually, sonically.
Speaker 1: The whole thing, the concept, everything about it, and I've
Speaker 1: got an incredible team I've put together to help me
Speaker 1: to do this thing, working on it, but you have
Speaker 1: to come to see us at the Sphere.
Speaker 2: It's the greatest.
Speaker 1: It's the greatest canvas for creativity and video that's ever
Speaker 1: been created ever.
Speaker 2: That's all. The fish was fish. You see the fish fish.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I want to see them.
Speaker 2: Did you like the car inside the Sphere? And you
Speaker 2: know talking about Yeah.
Speaker 1: What FIST did was a different concept because they did
Speaker 1: sixteen hours of music.
Speaker 2: They did four four hour nights of music.
Speaker 1: They never played the same song twice, and they never
Speaker 1: did any of the same video content twice. So theirs
Speaker 1: was not as it wasn't utilizing what the place can
Speaker 1: fully do, but it was giving them the biggest.
Speaker 2: Craziest backdrop they've ever hat.
Speaker 1: Sure, so I didn't know what it was going to be,
Speaker 1: but I went to see it and I was like, Okay,
Speaker 1: I get it now.
Speaker 2: But possibilities were You're just blown away at the possibilities
Speaker 2: when you saw it the first.
Speaker 1: Time when I when I went to see the thing,
Speaker 1: when you two was loading in before the building was
Speaker 1: open and saw what it was, and the possibilities or
Speaker 1: whatever it's like, this is my moment, this is my
Speaker 1: moment to create something that so far exceeds everyone's expectations
Speaker 1: that we're in a different category now.
Speaker 3: And that's our plan. So when do you march next year?
Speaker 2: So here's my idea and we're gonna end on this.
Speaker 2: You're not gonna like it, but whatever, it's better than
Speaker 2: plural ar mules though I can't even say it. So
Speaker 2: you see how hard this is? Singing like everybody sing
Speaker 2: along plural ar see even just be a disaster. But
Speaker 2: this is what I want to do. I want to
Speaker 2: do like a small documentary of me in a large
Speaker 2: band faking playing instruments the whole night, like a saxophone
Speaker 2: one you don't I'm not even plugged.
Speaker 1: In, right, just have a track plan and you're just know,
Speaker 1: I don't even you don't have to.
Speaker 2: Have to have a saxophone playing. But I'm just over
Speaker 2: on the side, just riping a saxophone with the band, right,
Speaker 2: switch it out next thing you do, and I'm playing, okay,
Speaker 2: So and the.
Speaker 1: Whole are you going to be yourself or be something else?
Speaker 1: Like I have someone disguise used to know they.
Speaker 2: Have to dis guise me a little bit so they
Speaker 2: don't know what the shoke, but just me going to town.
Speaker 2: I wanted to do it in like a big band,
Speaker 2: like uh, you know, Brian sits the orchestra, that type
Speaker 2: thing with all that, and just act like I'm on
Speaker 2: a horn the whole time and see if anybody even
Speaker 2: notices and do that and see if anyone ever posts
Speaker 2: what this guy's played like every instrument and I've not
Speaker 2: heard him once. At one point I got like the drug.
Speaker 3: You know, okay, so they wouldn't be any audio of
Speaker 3: supporting it, just be no no.
Speaker 2: But also you don't acknowledge it. You never acknowledge it's fake.
Speaker 2: No one ever even looks over it makes a deal.
Speaker 2: But I'm like, given to the.
Speaker 3: Tuba, all right, when are you gonna do this?
Speaker 2: I don't know. I'm trying to find the right partner.
Speaker 2: It's been to be about ten years figured out, but
Speaker 2: I'm gonna get to it, okay, Yeah, okay, Look, we
Speaker 2: talked about tie up everything, all the business this we
Speaker 2: did before you came in. I appreciate you giving me
Speaker 2: an hour to just hang and talk to you and
Speaker 2: get to know you a little better. All the all
Speaker 2: the cool things that are happening now. I mean, it's
Speaker 2: absurd to have a goal of doing something amazing, but
Speaker 2: if you don't have that goal doing something amazing, that
Speaker 2: absurdity will never happen. That's true. And You've always been
Speaker 2: that guy that's like, we're selling out, we're doing it big,
Speaker 2: we're doing it bigger. Let's keep going bigger, and like
Speaker 2: that inspires me because I'm like, let's go, let's go.
Speaker 2: So to see you continue to do this that that's
Speaker 2: that's that's really cool. And you're still in your freaking prime.
Speaker 2: And I give you I don't have any literal flowers,
Speaker 2: but I give you my creative flowers.
Speaker 1: Thanks brother. Hey you too, man. I've watched your career
Speaker 1: climb and get you get where you are and I.
Speaker 2: Got to do a bridge. I'm tested. I was gonna say,
Speaker 2: tapped out. Man. Once that bridge went up, I was like,
Speaker 2: you're still doing I've accomplished it all. And also I
Speaker 2: don't like the compliments. I'm gonna move off, but good
Speaker 2: to see you, Mike. Anything for for Zach, when did
Speaker 2: you fully commit to the tattoos? Because right now I
Speaker 2: just got my second one, and I'm like, I kind
Speaker 2: of want to go and get a little further, Like
Speaker 2: how like what point did you say I'm going fully committing?
Speaker 1: You know, I love art so much, and you get
Speaker 1: to carry a certain art around with you, so you
Speaker 1: better find things that you like and that you like
Speaker 1: to look at and do. And then just I think,
Speaker 1: over time, I just kept finding things, things that meant
Speaker 1: something to me.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: It's kind of like a map of my life on me,
Speaker 1: and it's art that I get to carry with me
Speaker 1: and things that have meaning, you know. It just I
Speaker 1: think over time it just keeps you just keep adding
Speaker 1: to it. It's like anything else, man, It's just a journey.
Speaker 2: Man.
Speaker 1: So in your journey, you just keep finding something that
Speaker 1: means something to you and just keep adding to it.
Speaker 1: And then all of a sudden, enough time goes by,
Speaker 1: you look down You're like, I got a bunch tattoos.
Speaker 3: It was never like I'm just gonna be all tatted up.
Speaker 2: It wasn't a goal like I'm gonna go because that's
Speaker 2: what I would do, be obsessed with getting my whole
Speaker 2: body cover.
Speaker 3: Oh, after you get one, you're definitely gonna want more.
Speaker 2: I got like six all in one off. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 2: Like the picture of you I have here. I don't
Speaker 2: even even seen it yet, but I thought it'd be
Speaker 2: weird to show you. But yeah, once I got referred
Speaker 2: to as the tatted up guy, I felt good by that. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: don't forget about it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they are kind of addictive when but then it
Speaker 1: takes away from my spear fishing sometimes. If I know
Speaker 1: if I'm going to be tattooed and I can't swim
Speaker 1: for a week, like that's kept me from getting a
Speaker 1: lot of tattoos in the last year.
Speaker 2: Should be like, look at the tatto dude coming down.
Speaker 3: He's kind of camouflage. It's kind of camouflage.
Speaker 2: Actually, it's that good to talk to you about it too.
Speaker 4: Thank you, Thanks for listening to a Bobby Cast production