WEBVTT - How the Rolling Jubilee Works 0:00:00.640 --> 0:00:05.480 Attention celebrity listeners, I hope pick out your attention. Hey everyone, 0:00:05.519 --> 0:00:07.920 this is Chuck And as some of you have heard, 0:00:07.960 --> 0:00:10.440 I have announced that I have a new solo podcast 0:00:10.480 --> 0:00:15.120 coming out in November called Movie Crush. UH. The show 0:00:15.160 --> 0:00:18.520 where I interview your favorite people about their favorite movie. 0:00:19.120 --> 0:00:20.960 And that's along and short of it's really cool. I've 0:00:21.000 --> 0:00:24.120 had a bunch of guests in the studio uh and 0:00:24.360 --> 0:00:27.280 just had a nice chat about movie fandom in general 0:00:27.280 --> 0:00:29.720 and what their favorite movie is and why. And I 0:00:29.760 --> 0:00:35.519 need more guests. So if you are a stealthy celebrity listener, 0:00:35.880 --> 0:00:39.120 if you're an actor, or a writer or a producer, 0:00:40.200 --> 0:00:44.120 uh director, if you're a musician, if you are a 0:00:44.120 --> 0:00:47.400 book author. I've had all kinds of people in the studio, 0:00:47.440 --> 0:00:50.120 and that's kind of the point, is to hear from 0:00:50.120 --> 0:00:52.519 from neat folks of all walks of life. If you 0:00:52.560 --> 0:00:54.960 were out there and you want to be on Movie Crush, 0:00:55.400 --> 0:00:58.520 I would love, love, love to have you. Um. If 0:00:58.520 --> 0:01:00.400 you're in Atlanta or going through it Anna with a 0:01:00.400 --> 0:01:03.120 movie project, that's great. If not, we had partner studios 0:01:03.120 --> 0:01:05.320 in l A and New York, UH, and we can 0:01:05.360 --> 0:01:07.720 work it out. If you live in uh a fly 0:01:07.800 --> 0:01:11.120 over state even let's say so, hit me up to 0:01:11.200 --> 0:01:15.160 send me an email to movie Crush at how stuff 0:01:15.360 --> 0:01:19.160 works dot com and put in the subject line movie 0:01:19.160 --> 0:01:23.880 Crush guest, and I'll know it's you and I appreciate it. 0:01:23.880 --> 0:01:27.240 It's a lot of fun, trust me and um, here's 0:01:27.240 --> 0:01:33.080 two recording podcast together. Thanks. Welcome to Stuff you Should 0:01:33.120 --> 0:01:42.319 Know from house stuff Works dot com. Hey, and welcome 0:01:42.360 --> 0:01:46.240 to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark, and there's Charles W. Bryant. 0:01:46.280 --> 0:01:50.040 There's Jerry over there, and this is stuff you should know. 0:01:52.200 --> 0:01:55.320 Come on aboard the Rolling Jubilee guests, not to be 0:01:55.400 --> 0:01:58.880 confused with the Jamboree, which is what the boy Scouts do. Yeah, 0:01:59.040 --> 0:02:01.400 Rolling Jubilee sounds hope one, and for a lot of 0:02:01.400 --> 0:02:04.880 people it is. Yeah, unless you're like a Wall Street 0:02:04.920 --> 0:02:08.359 shark who hates seeing lower income people get out from 0:02:08.440 --> 0:02:13.120 under debt miraculously. It's a great time for everybody. I 0:02:13.639 --> 0:02:17.160 honestly didn't know much about this thing, so I didn't either. Yeah, 0:02:17.280 --> 0:02:19.400 I actually I saw I Um, I saw it in 0:02:19.440 --> 0:02:23.520 the sidebar while I was looking for an article to do. Um, 0:02:23.560 --> 0:02:25.400 and I was like, I have no idea what that is, 0:02:25.440 --> 0:02:26.800 So let me check it out, and it was just 0:02:26.840 --> 0:02:31.720 one of those hidden gems, if you will. Should we 0:02:31.760 --> 0:02:35.040 talk Let's talk about debt, baby, Yeah, And I want 0:02:35.080 --> 0:02:38.400 to say, like this is largely about the rolling jubilee, 0:02:38.639 --> 0:02:42.080 but we're gonna scratch the surface of the consumer debt 0:02:42.919 --> 0:02:46.960 secondary market. I would love to do one on just 0:02:47.080 --> 0:02:51.120 debt and debt collection and just this this the the 0:02:51.200 --> 0:02:54.640 whole industry and the I guess, the whole massive ball 0:02:54.720 --> 0:02:57.960 of wax on the business of debt. Yeah, and like 0:02:58.280 --> 0:03:01.040 you know, how in what case is it's actually good 0:03:01.080 --> 0:03:03.200 to have? And like how it kind of powers the 0:03:03.240 --> 0:03:06.720 economy all that stuff. Did we ever do one on bankruptcy? No? 0:03:07.360 --> 0:03:08.799 All right, well we should put one of those in 0:03:08.840 --> 0:03:10.839 there too. Yeah. We got a lot to do, lest 0:03:10.880 --> 0:03:13.160 we have a lot left to do, more work to 0:03:13.200 --> 0:03:16.520 be done, all right, So let's in this case we're 0:03:16.560 --> 0:03:20.800 talking about consumer debt. AH in the United States, it 0:03:20.919 --> 0:03:28.120 is a um an astounding number and problem. Is that 0:03:28.160 --> 0:03:32.480 fair to say? I would say that's yes, I think 0:03:32.520 --> 0:03:36.880 that might even be an understatement. Although so as of 0:03:37.080 --> 0:03:39.280 this when this article was written, which appears to be 0:03:39.320 --> 0:03:41.720 about December of two thousand twelve, it was a bigger 0:03:41.760 --> 0:03:45.280 problem than that. It is now from what I'm seeing. Uh, 0:03:45.320 --> 0:03:50.640 well I have an higher number now than then. Okay, 0:03:50.680 --> 0:03:54.840 go ahead. Well the number I see, well, the original 0:03:54.960 --> 0:03:57.400 number from two thousand twelve was eleven point four four 0:03:57.480 --> 0:04:01.720 trillion trill trillion. Number I got today was twelve point 0:04:01.760 --> 0:04:05.400 seven three trillion. I saw twelve point two nine trillion, 0:04:06.480 --> 0:04:08.839 which is still I mean, that's years. Is almost a 0:04:08.880 --> 0:04:12.080 trillion dollars more in four years. I'm sure those are. 0:04:12.520 --> 0:04:16.280 So that's two thousands seventeen numbers. Yeah, okay, well that 0:04:16.279 --> 0:04:18.640 would explain. Mine was Q two of two thousand sixteen. 0:04:19.520 --> 0:04:23.760 So it's the distant past, a trillion dollar increase in 0:04:23.880 --> 0:04:29.440 five years. That's all of the household debt, credit cards, mortgages, 0:04:29.920 --> 0:04:34.440 UM car loans, uh old, medical bills, all that student 0:04:34.520 --> 0:04:36.040 loans a big part of it. Yeah, that's a big 0:04:36.080 --> 0:04:41.239 one too, that all households have in the United States. Right. Yes, 0:04:41.560 --> 0:04:44.240 as of two thousand fifteen, I'm hats off to you, man, 0:04:44.279 --> 0:04:47.680 I could not find two thousand seventeen numbers. Yeah. So 0:04:47.760 --> 0:04:50.480 here's the thing, debt. If you talk to someone who 0:04:50.480 --> 0:04:53.479 knows finance, they will say, like, that is not the 0:04:53.480 --> 0:04:55.760 worst thing in the world. It's not like being in debt. 0:04:56.240 --> 0:04:58.240 It's got to be the right kind of debt, Like 0:04:58.279 --> 0:05:01.200 owing a ton of money to high interest credit cards 0:05:01.760 --> 0:05:06.600 is not good by any measure. Um, Emily and I 0:05:06.680 --> 0:05:09.080 got smart when we Uh, I think I've told the 0:05:09.120 --> 0:05:11.799 story when we bought our house, we had a bunch 0:05:11.800 --> 0:05:16.520 of stupid credit card debt and this was she's twelve 0:05:16.920 --> 0:05:19.840 or so years ago. And what we did, because they 0:05:19.839 --> 0:05:23.640 were given away money back then foolishly uh. And this 0:05:23.680 --> 0:05:25.240 could have bought us in the butt, I guess if 0:05:25.240 --> 0:05:27.400 we hadn't have, you know, gotten jobs and been able 0:05:27.400 --> 0:05:30.479 to afford payments. But we rolled all that credit card 0:05:30.480 --> 0:05:34.480 debt into our homeland. So we literally paid off every 0:05:34.520 --> 0:05:37.960 cent of it and told each other We're never gonna 0:05:38.000 --> 0:05:42.119 go into credit card debt again. And since that day, 0:05:42.200 --> 0:05:46.080 and it was tough, we have never not paid off 0:05:46.680 --> 0:05:49.360 a credit card in full at the end of every month. Yeah. 0:05:49.640 --> 0:05:52.159 We we um almost always pay them off too. And 0:05:52.200 --> 0:05:55.960 it's like just just the best feeling to be able 0:05:56.000 --> 0:05:58.279 to look at that stuff and be like, oh, wow, 0:05:58.320 --> 0:06:01.000 I'm not like dying here. Well yeah, And to be 0:06:01.040 --> 0:06:02.960 able to kind of give the finger to a credit 0:06:02.960 --> 0:06:06.320 card company and say I'm using you for what you're 0:06:06.320 --> 0:06:08.880 supposed to be used for, which is to pay for 0:06:08.920 --> 0:06:14.120 things easier, but to not mortgage my life away with 0:06:14.240 --> 0:06:17.960 ridiculous interest rates because I'm buying stuff I don't need 0:06:18.000 --> 0:06:21.000 and can't pay for. And thanks, thanks for the sky 0:06:21.120 --> 0:06:25.960 miles chumps. Yeah for real. All right, So that's bad debt. 0:06:25.960 --> 0:06:27.960 They're all kinds of bad debt. But you know that's 0:06:28.000 --> 0:06:29.400 not the worst thing in the world to have. What's 0:06:29.440 --> 0:06:33.760 bad is delinquent to debt, right and yeah, so there is, 0:06:33.839 --> 0:06:36.600 like you were saying, I think good debt to have 0:06:37.080 --> 0:06:41.560 if you live in a consumer based economy, right, that 0:06:41.760 --> 0:06:44.280 kind of makes makes the world go round. But yes, 0:06:44.440 --> 0:06:47.880 delinquent debt is is across the board bad debt for 0:06:48.040 --> 0:06:51.720 almost everybody involved. Yeah, and about ten of the debt 0:06:51.720 --> 0:06:54.280 in the US is delinquent debt. See, this is where 0:06:54.320 --> 0:06:57.159 I saw a major drop. Actually, okay, so is it 0:06:57.200 --> 0:07:01.040 not that high anymore? No? Man like by half? Wow? Yeah, 0:07:01.120 --> 0:07:04.160 as again I found Q two of two thousand and sixteen, 0:07:04.520 --> 0:07:06.560 but it was in this article that was written in 0:07:06.560 --> 0:07:09.840 two thousand twelves. Is one point oh six trillion is delinquent? 0:07:11.080 --> 0:07:13.040 I saw in two thousand and sixteen. It was five 0:07:13.440 --> 0:07:16.240 and eighty nine billion. Oh well, that's in the right direction. 0:07:16.280 --> 0:07:20.560 And then about three quarters of that was um, super delinquent, 0:07:20.840 --> 0:07:23.120 although I think they call it seriously delinquent, I like 0:07:23.200 --> 0:07:27.640 super delinquent more or way delinquent or oh my god, 0:07:27.920 --> 0:07:32.640 which means three months ninety days late or more. Probably 0:07:33.160 --> 0:07:36.400 not in all cases, but probably delinquent to the point 0:07:36.440 --> 0:07:39.200 where you're you're not going to pay it, right. But 0:07:39.360 --> 0:07:43.760 but so there are in there the banks, as anyone 0:07:43.760 --> 0:07:47.360 who's ever owed a bill longer than ninety days knows, 0:07:47.840 --> 0:07:52.360 banks and lenders of any sort will just be like here, here, here, 0:07:52.400 --> 0:07:55.240 collection agency, go take this and if you can get 0:07:55.320 --> 0:08:00.560 something out of them, will split what you get right um, 0:08:00.600 --> 0:08:03.880 And you're you're in the cycle because collection agencies that's 0:08:03.920 --> 0:08:08.120 their business, right, lenders lend of money. Collection agencies try 0:08:08.200 --> 0:08:10.600 to go get money that's owed right there like a 0:08:10.600 --> 0:08:15.400 different ilk altogether. And there's actually different kinds of levels 0:08:15.440 --> 0:08:18.800 of that, as we'll see. But you're you're in the machine, 0:08:18.920 --> 0:08:22.200 and your life is going to be made unpleasant by 0:08:22.240 --> 0:08:24.880 the people who are trying to collect on those bills. Right. 0:08:25.840 --> 0:08:28.840 What the rolling jubilie, which we're talking about today, What 0:08:29.040 --> 0:08:34.760 that does is they have entered the debt collection industry, 0:08:34.800 --> 0:08:38.920 but rather than trying to collect on debt, they are 0:08:38.920 --> 0:08:44.400 buying debt and forgiving it. Yeah, so here's what can happen. 0:08:44.960 --> 0:08:47.199 Back up a second. Let's say you owe a ton 0:08:47.240 --> 0:08:51.920 of money on a bad credit card and you have 0:08:52.000 --> 0:08:53.679 been delinquent for a little while, and you call up 0:08:53.679 --> 0:08:55.439 that credit card company and you say, you know what, 0:08:56.200 --> 0:08:58.520 I want to pay this I spent this money, but 0:08:58.600 --> 0:09:01.640 your interest rate is really bad, and can you work 0:09:01.679 --> 0:09:04.040 with me on this interest rate and get it down 0:09:04.080 --> 0:09:06.199 to a point. And they'll stop you right there and say, oh, 0:09:06.240 --> 0:09:09.760 sir or ma'am, I'm sorry, but we don't own your 0:09:09.760 --> 0:09:12.800 debt anymore. And you go huh. And you say no, no, 0:09:12.800 --> 0:09:15.560 no, no no, no. We sold that debt to an investor 0:09:15.800 --> 0:09:19.560 and you go huh. And if you don't know that 0:09:19.640 --> 0:09:22.360 this is how this works, then well you didn't pay 0:09:22.400 --> 0:09:26.000 attention during the mortgage crisis, because that's basically what that was, 0:09:26.120 --> 0:09:32.160 bundling debt to an investor, bundling loans, um mortgages, bad 0:09:32.200 --> 0:09:35.480 debt into securities that are then sold to those investors 0:09:35.520 --> 0:09:38.160 who buy it really really cheap, with the idea that 0:09:38.200 --> 0:09:41.080 they can then go out and collect on a portion 0:09:41.120 --> 0:09:44.440 of that to make a big profit. And we'll like, 0:09:44.480 --> 0:09:46.760 we'll get into the details a little a little more 0:09:46.800 --> 0:09:50.520 in a minute, but the Jubilee itself the idea of 0:09:51.200 --> 0:09:54.400 buying debt, entering that industry and buying debt, but rather 0:09:54.440 --> 0:09:56.360 than trying to make a profit like you were saying, 0:09:56.679 --> 0:09:59.080 but just to forgive that debt so that the people 0:09:59.080 --> 0:10:03.480 who owe the money don't have that burden any longer. UM. 0:10:03.960 --> 0:10:06.240 That is the whole point behind it. And if you're like, 0:10:06.280 --> 0:10:09.600 wait a minute, wait a minute, this sounds like some 0:10:09.640 --> 0:10:13.240 sort of plot out of maybe Occupy Wall Street, well 0:10:13.240 --> 0:10:18.600 then you would be correct, because at Zukkati Park and 0:10:18.640 --> 0:10:21.920 I think two thousand and eleven, the idea for doing 0:10:21.960 --> 0:10:24.959 this was bandied about and there was a guy named 0:10:24.960 --> 0:10:28.000 Thomas Gorker who was there at one of these conversations, 0:10:28.600 --> 0:10:32.280 and he went on to found this thing called Strike Debt, 0:10:32.400 --> 0:10:36.080 which is an offshoot organization from Occupy Wall Street and 0:10:36.160 --> 0:10:39.960 Strike that has this project called Rolling Jubilee. UM. So 0:10:40.040 --> 0:10:45.440 it's a direct outcropping of Occupy Wall Street. Yeah, this 0:10:45.520 --> 0:10:49.320 is when UM Strike Debt was finally launched and the 0:10:49.320 --> 0:10:53.079 whole deal with Occupy Wall Street was basically protesters getting 0:10:53.080 --> 0:10:56.640 together and saying, well, you'll bail out banks to the 0:10:56.679 --> 0:11:00.640 tune of billions and trillions of dollars. But the banks 0:11:00.679 --> 0:11:03.840 don't then turn and turn say well, we're gonna forgive 0:11:03.880 --> 0:11:07.240 consumer debt as well, since we were bailed out. They'll 0:11:07.240 --> 0:11:09.800 bail out the big banks, but the consumer is still 0:11:10.559 --> 0:11:14.760 uh in big trouble. And so the idea of of 0:11:15.120 --> 0:11:18.960 the Rolling Jubilee and Project Strike debt was a bailout 0:11:19.040 --> 0:11:24.560 of by Yeah, and there was there's one facet to that, 0:11:24.840 --> 0:11:28.920 um lopsided bailout situation to that I think you left out, 0:11:28.920 --> 0:11:32.880 which is the banks are getting the bailouts from the government, 0:11:33.000 --> 0:11:36.600 but the government's getting that money from the taxpayers, and 0:11:36.760 --> 0:11:40.520 very frequently those taxpayers who actually gave the money to 0:11:40.559 --> 0:11:42.760 bail out the banks are the same ones that the 0:11:42.800 --> 0:11:46.440 banks are turning the thumbscrews on. So they're basically saying, 0:11:46.559 --> 0:11:49.280 thanks for the bailout money, give us the money you 0:11:49.320 --> 0:11:53.360 actually owe us individually now. And Yeah, Occupy had a 0:11:53.400 --> 0:11:56.199 big problem with that, and I think for good reason. Frankly, 0:11:56.240 --> 0:11:58.720 if I can go on record for saying that, yeah, 0:11:58.800 --> 0:12:01.679 so um, I agree the Rolling Jubilee as far as 0:12:01.679 --> 0:12:04.719 structure goes, Uh, they have and we're not gonna get 0:12:04.720 --> 0:12:06.000 too much in the weeds on this, but they have 0:12:06.000 --> 0:12:09.160 a board of directors and then volunteers who are not 0:12:09.320 --> 0:12:14.040 paid assent. Originally they had um brokers in while they're 0:12:14.040 --> 0:12:17.680 still brokers and web developers who have been paid but 0:12:17.760 --> 0:12:21.240 well well below market value. They're not completely donating their 0:12:21.240 --> 0:12:25.200 time in all cases, but they're getting paid apendance for 0:12:25.280 --> 0:12:28.560 this cause of what they normally would right like um 0:12:28.720 --> 0:12:33.880 pre wrapped cooler sandwiches money, you know what I mean, 0:12:34.559 --> 0:12:38.000 Like the kind not even like like a recognizable brand 0:12:38.640 --> 0:12:41.080 of sandwich that you buy in like a Bow Dagger 0:12:41.240 --> 0:12:44.760 convenience story, just you know, somebody's last name with like 0:12:44.800 --> 0:12:49.839 a poorly drawn like logo next to it that's overprinted 0:12:49.880 --> 0:12:52.640 so it's mudgy. You can't even really see what the 0:12:52.720 --> 0:12:54.760 logo is supposed to be. That is the kind of 0:12:54.800 --> 0:12:57.400 sandwiches these people are able to buy with the money 0:12:57.440 --> 0:12:59.719 they're getting from the Rolling Jubilee. Yeah, where there is 0:12:59.760 --> 0:13:02.080 no discernible difference between the meat and the bread. They've 0:13:02.160 --> 0:13:07.199 just coalesced into one lumpy, moist unit. I know it 0:13:07.280 --> 0:13:09.679 grows so many people out there with that word combination 0:13:10.320 --> 0:13:18.240 moist Yeah, moist unit, moist lumpy units. That what I said, Um, 0:13:18.320 --> 0:13:22.120 should we take a break so soon after moist lumpy unit. Yeah, 0:13:22.240 --> 0:13:23.640 all right, let's do that, and we'll come back and 0:13:23.640 --> 0:13:49.640 talk a little bit about the origins of the word jubilie. 0:13:52.360 --> 0:13:55.360 All right, josh Uh, I kind of thought jubilie meant 0:13:55.400 --> 0:13:57.920 jamboree because I'm a big dumb dump sometimes. Hey, I'm 0:13:58.000 --> 0:14:00.320 right there with you. But it's not true. It actually 0:14:00.320 --> 0:14:05.160 comes from the Bible, specifically the Book of Leviticus. Um. 0:14:05.200 --> 0:14:06.640 I'm not sure which one I used to know all 0:14:06.679 --> 0:14:10.080 those in order I could rattle them off. Genesis, a 0:14:10.080 --> 0:14:15.719 third book of the Bible, I think, right, I know Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Germedy, 0:14:15.800 --> 0:14:20.240 Joshua Judges Ruth first and seconds, Samuel Man the Book 0:14:20.280 --> 0:14:22.560 of Ruth. Yeah, some of that stuff really just comes 0:14:22.640 --> 0:14:25.520 right back into my my p brain. I didn't know that. 0:14:25.880 --> 0:14:30.880 So anyway, in Lebticus and the Old Testament, um, jubilee 0:14:30.920 --> 0:14:33.840 is actually an English variation of the Hebrew word joe 0:14:33.840 --> 0:14:36.960 bell jo j o b e l, which means ram's horn. 0:14:37.080 --> 0:14:39.400 And this is how you would you would blow in 0:14:39.440 --> 0:14:43.640 this horna and announce the signal of the year of 0:14:43.680 --> 0:14:47.400 the jubilee, right, which came I saw every forty nine years. 0:14:47.600 --> 0:14:52.120 Apparently this article says every fifty years, roughly every half 0:14:52.120 --> 0:14:54.840 of a century, let's just say, right. And so they 0:14:54.840 --> 0:14:57.920 blow the rams horn and that was a big deal. 0:14:59.000 --> 0:15:03.320 So a acording to Leviticus levig Kiss twenty five, I 0:15:03.360 --> 0:15:06.960 guess which is uh some section the section or verse 0:15:07.080 --> 0:15:11.280 or what chapter? Chapter A chapter? Okay, chapter verse okay? 0:15:11.320 --> 0:15:16.520 So um. The chapter of Leviticus basically says, um, here's 0:15:16.560 --> 0:15:21.560 how you do uh jubilee and everyone who is a 0:15:21.600 --> 0:15:25.720 member of the House of Israel, all the Israelites, right, um, 0:15:25.840 --> 0:15:30.080 are to have their debts forgiven. So if you are 0:15:30.280 --> 0:15:35.080 an indentured servant, you were freed. Or if you said, 0:15:35.680 --> 0:15:38.400 I'm a farmer, but I can't pay this debt, um, 0:15:38.440 --> 0:15:41.800 I really I lost all my all my um. I 0:15:41.880 --> 0:15:44.920 lost the farm on a bunch of magic beans. Because 0:15:44.960 --> 0:15:49.280 this is you know them. For the common era, people 0:15:49.360 --> 0:15:52.560 thought magic beans were a real thing. You would give 0:15:52.600 --> 0:15:55.680 that person who who sold you the magic beans your 0:15:55.800 --> 0:16:00.320 farm um as as collateral basically, and you would lose farm. 0:16:00.400 --> 0:16:03.680 But during Jubilee year you could get that farm back. 0:16:03.760 --> 0:16:07.040 You were given that farm back, restored your land, like 0:16:07.120 --> 0:16:10.360 all debts were forgiven. Yeah, it's basically God saying I'm 0:16:10.400 --> 0:16:13.440 a liberal hippie. Every fifty years, we're gonna wipe the 0:16:13.480 --> 0:16:17.080 slate clean. Here's what we don't know for sure is 0:16:17.160 --> 0:16:20.480 if this really happened, right, you can tell like the 0:16:20.920 --> 0:16:23.640 Israelites were like, oh yeah, good idea. Yeah wait, that's 0:16:23.640 --> 0:16:26.160 a great one. Nice idea, God, and then just we're 0:16:26.400 --> 0:16:28.560 just kind of didn't bring it up again. Yeah, do 0:16:28.600 --> 0:16:31.440 you think you noticed? Right? Uh? So we're not sure 0:16:31.440 --> 0:16:34.320 if that actually happened, but there are records in history 0:16:35.080 --> 0:16:39.880 of other cultures that did this sort of clean slate tradition, 0:16:40.520 --> 0:16:45.160 uh that have records under Hammerabi and Babylonia, uh in 0:16:45.280 --> 0:16:49.880 Egypt under Ptolemy, and even the Rosetta Stone has a 0:16:49.960 --> 0:16:55.600 jubilee proclamation recorded from right, So it did happen. Which 0:16:55.960 --> 0:17:01.080 think about this, Chuck, that is really heartening that like 0:17:01.280 --> 0:17:04.840 pretty early on, I guess in the agrarian system, once 0:17:04.880 --> 0:17:07.440 people settle down and all of a sudden you had 0:17:07.520 --> 0:17:15.000 like surpluses and income inequality and economic strata. Um, you 0:17:15.000 --> 0:17:18.160 you also had the idea that debts should be forgiven 0:17:18.200 --> 0:17:21.800 to Like it was a natural outcropping of that because 0:17:21.800 --> 0:17:25.000 they're they're that thing would that wouldn't exist prior to 0:17:25.080 --> 0:17:27.560 those things, because if you're a hunter gatherer, you can't 0:17:27.600 --> 0:17:30.040 go into debt. It's not possible. You're responsible for your 0:17:30.040 --> 0:17:33.800 own you know, food gathering and all that. So the 0:17:33.840 --> 0:17:36.679 idea that it just kind of naturally emerged out of it, 0:17:36.720 --> 0:17:39.480 I find that heartening. It makes me. It gives me 0:17:39.560 --> 0:17:43.199 faith in humanity again, or at least humanity from hundreds 0:17:43.240 --> 0:17:46.560 and thousands of years ago. Right. Uh So the idea 0:17:46.600 --> 0:17:48.520 with those jubilees, it was, like we said, once every 0:17:48.520 --> 0:17:51.520 forty fifty years, the idea of a rolling jubilee. The 0:17:51.520 --> 0:17:54.359 word rolling just means it's an ongoing thing. Uh, and 0:17:54.400 --> 0:17:58.159 so therefore they named it rolling Jubilee, which just to 0:17:58.200 --> 0:18:00.879 me still sounds like a party on a on a 0:18:00.920 --> 0:18:05.399 farm with people selling uh whippets out of plastic bags 0:18:05.440 --> 0:18:10.160 on exta. See, hence the rolling part. That's right. So um, 0:18:10.280 --> 0:18:12.560 this is how it works. Right, You've got the rolling 0:18:12.640 --> 0:18:16.360 Jubilee started. I think they started with a benefit concert 0:18:16.960 --> 0:18:19.320 and they managed to raise like five grand like pretty 0:18:19.359 --> 0:18:24.119 pretty quickly. Back in two thousand twelve. And what they 0:18:24.160 --> 0:18:27.600 did was they looked around and they identified like how 0:18:27.640 --> 0:18:30.960 this was happening. They knew that there were people who 0:18:31.000 --> 0:18:34.639 were in debt, and that the people that they owed 0:18:34.680 --> 0:18:37.880 the money to weren't even collecting any longer, that there 0:18:38.040 --> 0:18:43.960 was that what had developed was a secondary consumer debt market. Right, 0:18:44.359 --> 0:18:46.000 And you kind of went over a little. But I 0:18:46.000 --> 0:18:48.560 think it bears like like fleshing out. Yeah. I mean 0:18:48.600 --> 0:18:50.280 it's a little hard to wrap your head around if 0:18:50.280 --> 0:18:53.639 you're not in this world. No, but I don't mean 0:18:53.640 --> 0:18:55.280 if you live on a different planet. But in the 0:18:55.280 --> 0:18:58.919 world of finance, if you're rolling on a farm, you 0:18:59.200 --> 0:19:02.240 you may have time wrapping your head around this. But 0:19:02.240 --> 0:19:04.479 but the the basis of it is this, Right, So 0:19:04.560 --> 0:19:07.320 you go to a lender and you say, UM, lend 0:19:07.320 --> 0:19:12.760 me some money. And if you fall behind on your payments, um, 0:19:12.800 --> 0:19:15.400 after a certain amount of time, I think you would 0:19:15.440 --> 0:19:18.040 you say three months. Well, it kind of varies, but 0:19:18.119 --> 0:19:21.440 sure it could be you're in you have reached this level, 0:19:21.760 --> 0:19:27.480 like a new level of delinquency, and banks say that's it, 0:19:27.880 --> 0:19:30.760 You're done. We're we're not collecting from you anymore. You're 0:19:30.800 --> 0:19:33.639 a loss and we're writing you off. And they do 0:19:33.760 --> 0:19:36.560 this actually because back in the nineteen eighties up to 0:19:37.840 --> 0:19:40.560 the savings and loan crisis, which were you know, the 0:19:40.600 --> 0:19:42.439 savings and loan banks were the place you went to 0:19:42.440 --> 0:19:46.200 go get a mortgage in America, and because they were 0:19:46.560 --> 0:19:50.640 overregulated from the interest rates they could charge, the banks 0:19:50.880 --> 0:19:54.919 started engaging in like risky investment behavior because in that 0:19:54.960 --> 0:19:58.520 sense they were underregulated and they lost a bunch of money. Well, 0:19:58.520 --> 0:20:02.520 one of the outcroppings of the savings and loan crisis 0:20:03.080 --> 0:20:07.040 was that there were some really really shady accounting going on, 0:20:07.440 --> 0:20:09.240 and it was actually one of the first one of 0:20:09.280 --> 0:20:12.680 the early bailouts. It was like a hundred billion dollar bailout, 0:20:12.920 --> 0:20:16.600 which was an astounding amount of money. You chump changed today, 0:20:16.840 --> 0:20:18.639 sure it is, but at the time that was a 0:20:18.720 --> 0:20:21.800 huge deal. So it's a taxpayer bailout of these banks 0:20:21.800 --> 0:20:24.199 that had engaged in risky behavior and stopped me if 0:20:24.200 --> 0:20:27.600 this is starting to sound familiar, but it was largely 0:20:27.640 --> 0:20:30.560 because there was they were able to get away with it. 0:20:30.640 --> 0:20:33.119 And the problem gets to be so big because the 0:20:33.160 --> 0:20:39.439 accountants were keeping these bad assets on the books. So 0:20:39.600 --> 0:20:41.880 debt to you is an asset to the bank. It's 0:20:41.880 --> 0:20:44.199 something that they've got, they've got money they can collect 0:20:44.240 --> 0:20:47.760 on from you, right, But these delinquent assets that they 0:20:47.800 --> 0:20:50.320 had um were being kept on the books to make 0:20:50.359 --> 0:20:52.280 it look like there was a lot that the banks 0:20:52.280 --> 0:20:56.000 were a lot more flushed than they were. So after 0:20:56.040 --> 0:20:59.160 the savings a loan crisis, the government stepped in and said, 0:20:59.200 --> 0:21:01.560 you guys can't do that anymore. If you have a 0:21:01.640 --> 0:21:05.040 delinquent account on your books after say ninety days, you 0:21:05.080 --> 0:21:07.480 have to write it off. But whoa wa, Well, you're 0:21:07.480 --> 0:21:08.960 the banks and we love you and we want you 0:21:09.000 --> 0:21:12.040 to be happy and prosperous at all times, so we're 0:21:12.040 --> 0:21:15.159 gonna give you a tax deduction for that too. And 0:21:15.200 --> 0:21:17.000 they say, well, okay, what do we have to do 0:21:17.080 --> 0:21:19.359 after we write it off? And the government says, do 0:21:19.440 --> 0:21:22.120 whatever you want, sell it. We don't care, but you 0:21:22.119 --> 0:21:23.639 have to write it off and you can take a 0:21:23.680 --> 0:21:26.560 tax deduction. And then yeah, if you want to sell it, 0:21:26.640 --> 0:21:31.280 do And that's where the secondary consumer debt market was born. Yeah. 0:21:31.359 --> 0:21:34.960 And if you think that sounds like a pretty sweetheart deal, 0:21:35.040 --> 0:21:38.199 it gets even better because sometimes when they bundle this 0:21:38.520 --> 0:21:40.879 debt together and sell it to people who think they 0:21:40.880 --> 0:21:43.640 can go out, earth firms usually who can go out 0:21:43.640 --> 0:21:46.240 and make money by just recovering, like we said, just 0:21:46.320 --> 0:21:49.400 a portion of the stuff of these debts. Uh. They 0:21:49.400 --> 0:21:52.639 will then do the loan deal with that firm as 0:21:52.680 --> 0:21:58.200 well and make an additional amount of money as a lender. Yeah, 0:21:58.240 --> 0:22:00.840 they financed the purchase of that debt that they're selling 0:22:00.880 --> 0:22:04.800 to the person. It's crazy, man, So weird how things 0:22:04.800 --> 0:22:07.440 work in this country. And the weird is one way 0:22:07.480 --> 0:22:11.679 to put it, for sure. And the um the you 0:22:11.720 --> 0:22:13.920 said it, you said that they bundle this stuff right 0:22:13.920 --> 0:22:17.240 like they did with mortgage backed securities. They bundled mortgages 0:22:17.280 --> 0:22:19.640 together and then sliced them up and sold like basically 0:22:19.680 --> 0:22:22.240 them as shares. Right, this is a little different, but 0:22:22.320 --> 0:22:25.560 there's also bundling going on. But rather than just sell 0:22:25.800 --> 0:22:29.520 each debt individually, the banks will take, say, you know, 0:22:29.720 --> 0:22:31.960 all of the ones that they they're doing that day 0:22:32.080 --> 0:22:34.040 or that week or that month or whatever that they've 0:22:34.040 --> 0:22:37.360 written off, and they'll bundle it together into what's called 0:22:37.359 --> 0:22:41.639 a portfolio, and then they'll sell that portfolio for pennies 0:22:41.720 --> 0:22:44.680 on the dollar. Yeah, we're talking like it can be. 0:22:45.920 --> 0:22:49.120 You can you can spend like one dollar to buy 0:22:49.600 --> 0:22:51.840 thirty two up to thirty two dollars worth of debt. 0:22:51.920 --> 0:22:54.359 Let's say, yeah, I think that's about as good as 0:22:54.359 --> 0:22:56.240 you can get. That's the best I've seen. I've seen 0:22:56.280 --> 0:23:00.239 anywhere from ten cents on the dollar to yeah one 0:23:00.359 --> 0:23:03.040 a one to thirty two ratio. Yeah, which is I mean, 0:23:03.800 --> 0:23:07.639 that's a great uh. On one hand's super cheap, but 0:23:07.680 --> 0:23:11.159 it's very risky still, because what you're doing again is 0:23:11.200 --> 0:23:14.360 buying debt that you may or may not be able 0:23:14.359 --> 0:23:17.480 to collect on right exactly. And so like the whole 0:23:17.520 --> 0:23:19.800 industry is based on the idea that you'll be able 0:23:19.880 --> 0:23:25.159 to collect some of the um debts that are in 0:23:25.200 --> 0:23:29.719 this portfolio, and that you'll probably only be able to 0:23:29.720 --> 0:23:33.159 to um collect on a portion of the debts that 0:23:33.200 --> 0:23:35.520 you do collect on. So some out of the gate, 0:23:36.240 --> 0:23:38.719 the people just aren't gonna pay you, no matter how 0:23:38.800 --> 0:23:41.119