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Speaker 1: Blessed are the undefiled in the way who walk in

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Speaker 1: the law of the Lord, Psalm one nineteen one. Dear Lord,

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Speaker 1: how grateful I am for removing the stain of my sin.

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Speaker 1: I can now walk unblemished before you. Your forgiveness cleanses

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Speaker 1: my conscience of guilt and condemnation. You renewed my mind

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Speaker 1: with your word and weakened the lies of the enemy

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Speaker 1: used to betray me. Your truth flooded my darkness with

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Speaker 1: light and showed me the error of my ways. Keep

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Speaker 1: me steady on your course for my life. I am

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Speaker 1: blessed when I follow you. The light of your word

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Speaker 1: is my strength and has restored my integrity. Keep me

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Speaker 1: unspoiled from the condemnation of this world with all its anger, confusion,

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Speaker 1: and fear. You are my delight.

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Speaker 2: Amen.

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Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to to Day's daily Prayer. For

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Speaker 1: more inspiration and an incredible message from our feature pastor,

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Speaker 1: stay tuned to pray dot COM's Sunday service.

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Speaker 3: Hello everyone, and welcome to the Creation Podcast, where we

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Speaker 3: discuss the science that confirms scripture.

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Speaker 4: I'm your host, Renee, and as many of you know,

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Speaker 4: we live in a.

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Speaker 3: World that tells us the Book of Genesis is, if

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Speaker 3: not entirely, at least partially a myth. Our culture tells

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Speaker 3: us that there was no supernatural creation because well, it

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Speaker 3: was nature that got us here. But is that really

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Speaker 3: our origin story? Are we just simply people that evolved

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Speaker 3: over millions and millions of years to be who we

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Speaker 3: are today? And what does the Bible actually say about

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Speaker 3: who we are and why we're here in the first place. Well,

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Speaker 3: here with me to talk about this today is ic

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Speaker 3: our's very own paleo biochemist, doctor Brian Thomas. Doctor Thomas,

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Speaker 3: thank you so much for being here.

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Speaker 2: Well, it's my pleasure, Thanks, Renee.

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Speaker 3: So well, I am really excited for our conversation today

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Speaker 3: because I know this is a topic you are super

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Speaker 3: passionate about, and you actually recently wrote a book on

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Speaker 3: it called Living in Light of Genesis, and so you

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Speaker 3: discuss a lot of these things in your book, and

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Speaker 3: so I would love to just dive right into the

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Speaker 3: heart of why you wrote this book and what led

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Speaker 3: you to ultimately write it and why this topic.

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Speaker 4: In the first place.

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Speaker 2: Well, thank you for asking.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I wrote the book as as a way to

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Speaker 5: tell my story to encourage other Christians who may be

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Speaker 5: like I was confused about which parts of the Bible

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Speaker 5: to believe and which parts of the Bible do I

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Speaker 5: have to, like, I don't know, edit with.

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Speaker 2: A pencil or something.

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Speaker 5: Which parts of the Bible has science I guess disproven

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Speaker 5: or contradicted, and so therefore we can't believe it. And

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Speaker 5: so I went on this journey where I asked each

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Speaker 5: question about each discipline, looking at each verse and going

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Speaker 5: what about this verse? What about when the scientists say,

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Speaker 5: you know this, where is that in the Bible? Why

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Speaker 5: isn't that When the scientists say this fossil is four

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Speaker 5: hundred and twenty million years old? Why is that not

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Speaker 5: in the Bible? You know, it is the science that

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Speaker 5: says that, you know, what's that? Based on what experiment

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Speaker 5: did they run to determine that age? And so, you know,

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Speaker 5: those are the kinds of questions I asked question after question,

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Speaker 5: and I went through this journey of basically every time

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Speaker 5: I got the answer to one of these questions, the

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Speaker 5: answer was, oh, the Bible was right about that, And

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Speaker 5: then I'm going to the next one. The Bible right

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Speaker 5: about that. The science behind that is not what it's

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Speaker 5: cracked up to be. That you know that's actually a statement,

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Speaker 5: a faith statement about the past, and there's no science

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Speaker 5: that actually supports it. Really, so it became evident to me,

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Speaker 5: and I wanted to be become evident to more Christians

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Speaker 5: who feel pressured. I want to take some of that

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Speaker 5: pressure off of Christians so that they that they recognize

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Speaker 5: for themselves. Okay, when is this just a faith statement

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Speaker 5: about the past made by people who were not there

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Speaker 5: and who actually have a bias against God anyways in

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Speaker 5: his word because of the sin in our hearts. That's

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Speaker 5: how we tend to be versus. These are the data,

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Speaker 5: you know, and these are the results from an observation,

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Speaker 5: and because oftentimes it's the data the results that support

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Speaker 5: the scripture more easily. And it's statements about the past

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Speaker 5: that come from a person's mind and imagination that pose

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Speaker 5: as science, but they're really not so. But the transformation

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Speaker 5: that I underwent, I tell my story how I went

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Speaker 5: through some of these questions. I'm the answer that I found,

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Speaker 5: and I want more Christians to come out the other

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Speaker 5: side like I did with a renew and increased confidence,

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Speaker 5: not just in Genesis, but in God's word, not just

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Speaker 5: in the Bible. In Genesis, as an academic sense, you know,

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Speaker 5: but the God of the Bible himself. I want more

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Speaker 5: Christians to trust him more fully because he's actually you

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Speaker 5: can take him at his word, and that makes a

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Speaker 5: big difference in our relationship with him.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, that's awesome.

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Speaker 3: You know, I think a lot of Christians have a

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Speaker 3: similar story of you know, they came to Christ, but

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Speaker 3: maybe you're still wrestling with some of those questions or

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Speaker 3: just don't realize, you know, some of the lies they're

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Speaker 3: believing that society is feeding them. And so for maybe

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Speaker 3: some Christians who say, oh, yeah, Genesis is it's great,

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Speaker 3: it's in the Bible, it's inspired scripture. But really the

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Speaker 3: Gospel is what actually matters. That's what we should be

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Speaker 3: focusing on. What would you say to them for why

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Speaker 3: Genesis is important? And not only to them, but for

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Speaker 3: non believers as well.

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Speaker 2: You know, I'd have to gauge the conversation.

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Speaker 5: First of all, if someone is coming at me with

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Speaker 5: an adamant tone like the Gospel, you know it is

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Speaker 5: the only thing that's important. Well, they don't want to

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Speaker 5: hear from me, they're just they're just you know, blowing

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Speaker 5: off steam and letting me know their position. So it's

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Speaker 5: not the time to talk back, but I might, I

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Speaker 5: might ask him a question. But but if I were

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Speaker 5: instead in a conversation and someone was asking me, it

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Speaker 5: seems to me that writing a book about, you know,

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Speaker 5: living in light of Genesis and how important Genesis is,

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Speaker 5: isn't as important as writing a book about the Gospel.

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Speaker 5: Why aren't you doing that?

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Speaker 2: You know? And I really want to know why.

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Speaker 5: If so, if someone is actually curious, then then I

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Speaker 5: would say, read the book and you'll find out.

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Speaker 2: No, I would say, I agree with you.

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Speaker 5: I would say, I agree with you that the Gospel

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Speaker 5: is the power of God unto salvation Romans one sixteen,

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Speaker 5: and that that news, that news is just phenomenal. That

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Speaker 5: I'm a sinner. I earned the death penalty, and Jesus

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Speaker 5: paid that death penalty on my behalf so that he

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Speaker 5: can commute my death sentence. And all I have to

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Speaker 5: do is agree with him about my sin, repent of

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Speaker 5: that sin basically, and trust in him, and I get

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Speaker 5: new life through him. And that is awesome news. It's

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Speaker 5: our biggest need is our sin, and the death that

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Speaker 5: our sin earns, and our biggest need turns into his

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Speaker 5: biggest glory because he stepped out of heaven, became a man,

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Speaker 5: died on the cross, dead three days, rose again, and

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Speaker 5: he did all that for us because of his great

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Speaker 5: love for us. So I agree. But why is Genesis

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Speaker 5: also important? A couple of reasons. One is it provides

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Speaker 5: the logical foundation for that gospel. So if I say

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Speaker 5: what is sin? I say, if I say, hey, the

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Speaker 5: gospel is really great because we have sin and the

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Speaker 5: sin is gives it, you know, causes death, and so

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Speaker 5: we we and we're stuck in this world of death

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Speaker 5: and we have to die because of it. And so

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Speaker 5: we're we're really stuck. And someone says sin, what is sin?

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Speaker 2: Now?

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Speaker 5: If I don't have Genesis, I don't have an answer.

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Speaker 5: I can't explain the underpinnings for the gospel, the basic

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Speaker 5: concepts that the gospel includes, Where did sin come from

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Speaker 5: the garden? Well, if the garden wasn't a real place,

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Speaker 5: then we don't have a real answer. You know, how

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Speaker 5: did sin start? Adam and Eve in the garden? And

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Speaker 5: if there was no Adam and Eve, then we don't

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Speaker 5: really have an answer to how did sin start the

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Speaker 5: origins of all of all these things? So we have

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Speaker 5: to get back to Genesis, and there's there's more reasons

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Speaker 5: now that we can and should. It's more defensible now

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Speaker 5: than ever, even though those defenses are so often.

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Speaker 2: Hidden, hidden from from some.

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Speaker 5: So I want to make it more widely known how

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Speaker 5: defense the bullet is and how great our God is.

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Speaker 5: So that's one answer. So in summary, In summary, Genesis

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Speaker 5: provides the foundation, the logical foundation for the Gospel, not

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Speaker 5: just sin, but also grace. Noah found grace in the

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Speaker 5: eyes of God, salvation. Those that were on board the

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Speaker 5: arc were saved faith Genesis fifteen was it six and

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Speaker 5: Abraham believed God and it was accounted to him as righteousness.

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Speaker 5: That's the Gospel, it's all. See, these basic concepts have

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Speaker 5: their origin in Genesis, and I explained some of that

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Speaker 5: in the book too. But there are other good reasons,

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Speaker 5: and I'll just mention another one really quick, and then

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Speaker 5: we'll don't move on to the next topic. But this

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Speaker 5: is part of my testimony, this part of my story,

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Speaker 5: right is I wasn't sure if I could really trust.

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Speaker 5: I trusted God, you know, to rescue me from hell,

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Speaker 5: but I live life as though I'm the boss, because

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Speaker 5: I wasn't sure that he was worth giving my whole

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Speaker 5: life to him, you know, because I couldn't. I can't

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Speaker 5: take him at his word, Like would you would you

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Speaker 5: trust someone if you if you thought, well, that part

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Speaker 5: of what he says he's lying, and the other parts

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Speaker 5: he's telling the truth. And I can't really discern which

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Speaker 5: parts are truth and which parts are lies, because if

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Speaker 5: Genesis is a myth, then it's a bunch of lies.

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Speaker 5: And so so what do you say about the character

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Speaker 5: of the person who's responsible for the text, for the words, Well,

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Speaker 5: he's I don't know if I want to trust him.

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Speaker 5: So you see that that's a huge difference. So whence

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Speaker 5: Genesis becomes history in our minds as it really is,

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Speaker 5: then oh, the character of the God of the Bible

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Speaker 5: becomes totally trustworthy. And then we can do what we

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Speaker 5: were made to do, what he built us to do,

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Speaker 5: which is to trust him. Trust him with our problems,

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Speaker 5: trust him with our dreams, trust him with our goals,

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Speaker 5: trust him when we're up, trust him when we're down.

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Speaker 5: You know, we're built to trust him and to not

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Speaker 5: rely on ourselves. Let's call idolatry, you know, putting someone

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Speaker 5: in God's place, and but once when he has that

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Speaker 5: place in our hearts. Then he aligns our brokenness, he

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Speaker 5: puts the pieces back together and makes us whole people again.

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Speaker 5: And that's what I like. That's what he's done for me,

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Speaker 5: is doing for me, and that's what I want him

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Speaker 5: to want to see him do for more and more people.

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Speaker 4: That's awesome.

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Speaker 3: I love all of what you said there, especially whenever

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Speaker 3: you said our biggest need is his biggest glory. And

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Speaker 3: we see that right from the very beginning, you know,

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Speaker 3: whenever the fall happened, and now it all points, it

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Speaker 3: all points to Jesus, and so that's incredible. And so

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Speaker 3: that transitions into the next question of just what is

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Speaker 3: your biggest prayer for this book as it's now published

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Speaker 3: and it's going out to people around the world.

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Speaker 5: Well, maybe my I haven't been praying about it much,

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Speaker 5: so that's probably bad. But I pray that for those

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Speaker 5: who read it, they would they would see in it

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Speaker 5: more reasons, like we said, more reasons than they ever

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Speaker 5: knew about uh to take God at his word. And honestly,

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Speaker 5: if that's my prayer, it's already come true because I've

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Speaker 5: had several people say it's their favorite book on creation

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Speaker 5: they've ever read. Isn't that cool, amazing it's and so

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Speaker 5: you know, some people are like, love it, love it,

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Speaker 5: love it because I wrote it with like a soccer

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Speaker 5: mom in mind as the target audience. Like if a

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Speaker 5: soccer mom who's busy doesn't have time to weighe through science,

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Speaker 5: you know, but but hash it doesn't have time to

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Speaker 5: weigh through long sentences or big words or any of that.

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Speaker 5: But just what's the what's the bottom line. It's say

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Speaker 5: it in a way that I could get what you're saying.

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Speaker 5: And so that was my goal and my prayer. And

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Speaker 5: so it's already ticking that box, which is kind of nice.

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Speaker 4: That's awesome.

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Speaker 3: And yeah, and I would love to just transition now

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Speaker 3: into Genesis itself because we've talked about how you know,

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Speaker 3: it's important and believers and non believers alike Nita as

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Speaker 3: a foundation for their lives. But does Genesis itself actually

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Speaker 3: claim to be real history?

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Speaker 5: I mean, I think any any seven year old who

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Speaker 5: reads it without a bias would would read the words

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Speaker 5: and say, well, God did this, and then he did that,

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Speaker 5: and then he did this, and then this happened, and

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Speaker 5: then that happened. So it reads like a like a story,

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Speaker 5: like a history like a narrative and so, and there's

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Speaker 5: actually nothing in the text that suggests or indicates that

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Speaker 5: it's not. In other words, there's nothing in the text

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Speaker 5: that says, Okay, that stuff really happened. But now we're

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Speaker 5: about to tell you stuff that's just a moral lesson,

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Speaker 5: you know, or here's here comes a fable that's going

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Speaker 5: to really help you in some way. There's none of

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Speaker 5: that language in there to make it explicit that this

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Speaker 5: is a fable or that this is not history, nor

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Speaker 5: is there nor is their structure. The verbs that are

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Speaker 5: used and everything, they all indicate history. So this happened,

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Speaker 5: and that happened, and then and you know, we have

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Speaker 5: words of that indicate timing, chronology, then this, then that,

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Speaker 5: and we even have words that that indicate timing in

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Speaker 5: the context of world history. You know, for example, Genesis

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Speaker 5: seven eleven, in the six hundredth year of Noah's life,

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Speaker 5: in the second month, and the seventeenth day of the month,

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Speaker 5: on that very day, all the fountains of the deep

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Speaker 5: burst forth. Not only is this pretty much historical, it's chronical,

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Speaker 5: logically precise, you know it. And so yeah, it's definitely

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Speaker 5: claims to be historical and so, but what's it up against.

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Speaker 5: It's up against our culture's perspective on history, which is

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Speaker 5: a which is a secular view that doesn't pay any

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Speaker 5: attention to God's word. And it says that the universe

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Speaker 5: is billions of years old, so is the earth, and

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Speaker 5: that's not in the Bible.

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Speaker 2: And so you have to pick one. You have to

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Speaker 2: pick one.

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Speaker 5: And this, the version of history that's in Genesis, is

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Speaker 5: so unpopular that if I'm going to if even as

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Speaker 5: a Christian, if I'm going to go, if I'm going

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Speaker 5: to say I'm going to side with God's word, I'm

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Speaker 5: going to say, God, I think you got it right.

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Speaker 5: You can't do that without facing what without facing ridicule

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Speaker 5: or potentially because you'll you'll be thought of as a

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Speaker 5: fill in the blank, a yahoo. And so that's the

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Speaker 5: biggest reason why I resisted believing Genesis for so long.

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Speaker 5: But when the evidence for its history he mounted up

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Speaker 5: to such a high degree, I couldn't. I couldn't you know,

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Speaker 5: responsibly live any longer without So in other words, yeah,

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Speaker 5: if people think of me as a Yahoo, that's just

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Speaker 5: gonna have to be the consequence, because I have to

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Speaker 5: go with the truth and that's kind of how it

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Speaker 5: happened for me.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And we see that so often in the Bible too.

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Speaker 3: I mean, people thought Jesus was crazy, you know, for

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Speaker 3: the things he did and what he said about himself.

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Speaker 3: But you know, just following his example of being bold

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Speaker 3: even in the face of that adversity. And you had

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Speaker 3: talked about earlier that, you know, you can't just selectively believe, oh, well,

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Speaker 3: the Gospel's true, but Genesis isn't. You know, that's not

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Speaker 3: real literal history. But is it a problem if maybe

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Speaker 3: it's not a myth per se, but God didn't really

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Speaker 3: mean literal days, or he didn't actually mean a global flood,

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Speaker 3: it was just a regional flood. Is there a problem

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Speaker 3: with inserting our own evolutionary or deep time interpretations or

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Speaker 3: even just realistic to our standard interpretations on the Book

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Speaker 3: of Genesis.

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Speaker 5: Well, I mean that's what most Christians do. That's what

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Speaker 5: I did for a while as I was transitioning from

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Speaker 5: believing in secular history, which I was convinced science proved,

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Speaker 5: you know, until one day I was challenged on that

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Speaker 5: when someone said, what experiment did scientists run that proved

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Speaker 5: you know, that proved that you came from an ape,

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Speaker 5: for example, or name some historical event that we count

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Speaker 5: as historical, but really it boils down to a bunch

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Speaker 5: of scientists happened to believe it even though they weren't there.

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Speaker 5: And I thought, well, there is no experiment. And then

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Speaker 5: I thought, well science can even it's not even the

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Speaker 5: right tool to use to sort out what happened when

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Speaker 5: that's not what science can even do. What was I

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Speaker 5: Why was I giving so much credence and credit to

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Speaker 5: science when all the while I had the God of

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Speaker 5: heaven and earth, the God of my salvation, who loved

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Speaker 5: me and gave himself for me, This guy, you know,

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Speaker 5: maker of all, and he's been sitting there patiently waiting

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Speaker 5: for me to come around and trust him and take

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Speaker 5: him at his word.

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Speaker 2: He was there.

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Speaker 5: He does know what happened, and he knows everything, you know.

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Speaker 5: That's how God tends to be such a know it all.

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Speaker 5: When you try to mingle two different histories that don't act,

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Speaker 5: they're just different stories, one of them gets butchered in

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Speaker 5: order to make way for the other one. And if

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Speaker 5: we mingle secular versions of history in with the Bible,

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Speaker 5: guess which gets butchered.

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Speaker 2: We have to butcher the Bible.

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Speaker 5: Just like you mentioned, day doesn't mean day anymore, so

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Speaker 5: we can squeeze in the time. And so when we

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Speaker 5: chop up and redefine terms to make it fit you know,

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Speaker 5: our man made human history, then what we're telling God

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Speaker 5: is I don't I don't believe you. Yeah, I think

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Speaker 5: these other folks who who weren't there, I think they

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Speaker 5: know better than you, even though you were there.

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Speaker 2: That's what we're doing.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, And so that's a So if I do

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Speaker 6: that at one point in the Bible, like let's say Genesis,

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Speaker 6: and I could, then then I set up a precedent

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Speaker 6: that says, well, if I.

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Speaker 5: Really need to redefine a term to make it fit

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Speaker 5: something else that's outside the Bible, then I can go

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Speaker 5: ahead and do that.

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Speaker 2: Well, what if I need to redefine the term resurrection.

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Speaker 5: You know, I think resurrection really means you know, swoon,

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Speaker 5: He swooned.

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Speaker 2: And then he's passed out and then it woke up.

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Speaker 5: As soon as you have that, then you have no hope,

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Speaker 5: no gospel, just by redefining one term. So that and

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Speaker 5: Jesus himself he used not only terms but the tense

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Speaker 5: of verbs to make points in his arguments with people

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Speaker 5: who argued with him. So so he took God's word

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Speaker 5: at face value. He even quoted from Genesis one and

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Speaker 5: two directly portions of them as though they were history.

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Speaker 5: And so if i'm if I take the liberty of saying, well,

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Speaker 5: this doesn't really mean what the text seems to suggest,

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Speaker 5: because it can't mean that, right, because we know from

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Speaker 5: secular history blah blah blah blah. So I have to

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Speaker 5: change the word to mean something else. Well, then I

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Speaker 5: have to go to Jesus words and say, Jesus, you

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Speaker 5: also got this wrong, you know, Mark ten to six.

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Speaker 5: But from the beginning God made them male and female. Well,

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Speaker 5: I think Jesus got that wrong. He should have said,

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Speaker 5: but billions of years after the big bang beginning, you

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Speaker 5: know that's what That's what he really meant to say. Right, So,

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Speaker 5: as as soon as I make a precedent, as soon

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Speaker 5: as I start doing that in one place of the Bible,

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Speaker 5: then I opened the door for me being able to

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Speaker 5: do that in.

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Speaker 2: Another place and in all the places.

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Speaker 5: And suddenly now the Bible becomes meaningless and comes whatever

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Speaker 5: I want it to mean. So, if we're going to

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Speaker 5: get any meaning, from God's word. We have to let

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Speaker 5: God's word be God's word. You know, there's a verse

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Speaker 5: in Isaiah. I read it recently, can't pin the address

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Speaker 5: to it, but it's in the sixties Isaiah sixty something,

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Speaker 5: and the Lord says he's looking around the earth for

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Speaker 5: anyone who trembles at his word. And I'm like, the

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Speaker 5: more I read his word, more I study him through

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Speaker 5: his word, and the more confirmation I have through his

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Speaker 5: world that matches so well what his word says about

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Speaker 5: the world, the more I want to be one of

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Speaker 5: those people. I want the Lord to look around the

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Speaker 5: earth see me and say, ah, you tremble at my

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Speaker 5: word with that much respect for what I have to say.

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Speaker 5: And I want to be able to say, yes, Lord,

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Speaker 5: I do, help me to believe, help my unbelief.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Absolutely reminds to me as you were talking just

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Speaker 3: about something you said earlier in in Idolatry, and how

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Speaker 3: in a sense, when we put our own interpretation on

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Speaker 3: what maybe scripture really means, that that's in essence making

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Speaker 3: ourselves idols. I feel like, you know, where we're putting

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Speaker 3: ourselves in the place of God saying no, actually, this

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Speaker 3: is what scripture means in making idols within ourselves. And

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Speaker 3: that's that's a dangerous spot to be.

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Speaker 2: And so that's that's well said. But man, it's hard

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Speaker 2: to hear, isn't it.

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Speaker 4: I know, yes, but you know.

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Speaker 5: And we so many of us think of, well, I

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Speaker 5: don't have a little you know, a little carved image

401
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Speaker 5: of the god fill in the blank name of some

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Speaker 5: little gcot you know, on my bookshelf, or in a

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Speaker 5: little shrine in my house, like so many Pagans have

404
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Speaker 5: had for millennia. So therefore I'm not an idolater. No,

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Speaker 5: we all suffer idolatry all the time, which which is

406
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Speaker 5: when we put anything, even ourselves in front of the

407
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Speaker 5: you know, in the place in our hearts where Jesus belongs,

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Speaker 5: which is the one who calls the shots, the boss.

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Speaker 5: So whoever's whoever we're looking whoever or whatever we're looking for, Uh,

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Speaker 5: we're placing our hope in for rescue, looking for rescue

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Speaker 5: in if I just could find the right guy get married.

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Speaker 2: You got an idol.

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Speaker 5: If I could just make my first million dollars idol,

414
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Speaker 5: if I could just you know what I mean, you

415
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Speaker 5: fill in the blank, If I could get if I

416
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Speaker 5: could just get, you know, get to the liquor store

417
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Speaker 5: and have the next drink idle idle idol, And these

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Speaker 5: are all idols from God's perspective. So I just wanted

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Speaker 5: our listeners to have to have that clarified in case

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Speaker 5: they were like, thinking about what you said, idolatry what.

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Speaker 5: So that's that was a good little excursion. Thanks for

422
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Speaker 5: letting me interrupt you on that. Yeah, I know, I

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Speaker 5: appreciate what you said and saying saying that, and it's

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Speaker 5: convicting to me.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I know.

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Speaker 3: Me as well, because I tend to think of you know,

427
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Speaker 3: and realized are making this golden calf. I'm like, of

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Speaker 3: course that's an idol, but it's it's a lot more

429
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Speaker 3: difficult to think about, well, what are the idols that.

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Speaker 4: I'm making in my own lives?

431
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Speaker 3: And you know, I think we definitely can make idols

432
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Speaker 3: of ourselves so easily, especially when it comes to looking

433
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Speaker 3: at Genesis and saying, well, I think it actually means this,

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00:24:17,240 --> 00:24:20,199
Speaker 3: So God was wrong, I'm right, you know, and of

435
00:24:20,200 --> 00:24:22,760
Speaker 3: course his ways are higher than ours, so we can't

436
00:24:22,760 --> 00:24:25,280
Speaker 3: we can't put our interpretation on it. All right, So

437
00:24:25,440 --> 00:24:30,280
Speaker 3: let's transition now into the science that supports genesis, and

438
00:24:30,359 --> 00:24:33,440
Speaker 3: so of course, you know the Bible, it explains itself,

439
00:24:33,480 --> 00:24:35,560
Speaker 3: as you know, a lot of Christians will say, and

440
00:24:35,640 --> 00:24:38,119
Speaker 3: I think, you know, I absolutely agree with that. But

441
00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:41,679
Speaker 3: as far as the science goes, what purpose does the

442
00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:45,200
Speaker 3: science accomplish? Why study it when talking about Genesis?

443
00:24:46,280 --> 00:24:48,680
Speaker 5: The mean reason why I have covered in this book.

444
00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:51,199
Speaker 5: So okay, The reason I'm struggling is because there's two different,

445
00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:56,439
Speaker 5: totally separate tracks. One is the question why should we

446
00:24:56,600 --> 00:25:00,800
Speaker 5: be why should we use the christ What impact does

447
00:25:00,840 --> 00:25:04,840
Speaker 5: the Bibles, you know, the worldview we get from the Bible?

448
00:25:04,880 --> 00:25:06,520
Speaker 2: What impact does that have on science?

449
00:25:06,560 --> 00:25:09,399
Speaker 5: And that so that question is answered like, that's the

450
00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:11,359
Speaker 5: only reason we have good science is because of the

451
00:25:11,359 --> 00:25:15,560
Speaker 5: worldview we get from the Bible, and that's born out

452
00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:17,520
Speaker 5: through the history of science and all the all the

453
00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:21,440
Speaker 5: pioneers of all the great disciplines of science, Kepler and Newton.

454
00:25:21,560 --> 00:25:22,480
Speaker 2: Bible believers.

455
00:25:24,119 --> 00:25:28,879
Speaker 5: But for the purposes of this conversation, I think the

456
00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:32,560
Speaker 5: reason we look at science and what we try to

457
00:25:32,560 --> 00:25:34,439
Speaker 5: tease a part what scientists.

458
00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:38,680
Speaker 2: Say about their results.

459
00:25:40,119 --> 00:25:42,760
Speaker 5: Is when they tie those results into a conclusion, and

460
00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:46,000
Speaker 5: that's when they wed the results into their worldview and

461
00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:50,080
Speaker 5: it's a secular worldview. So and then we as Christians,

462
00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:52,720
Speaker 5: because we don't we don't have the expertise necessarily to

463
00:25:52,800 --> 00:25:55,200
Speaker 5: go into that discipline, whatever it is, we get a

464
00:25:55,240 --> 00:25:57,679
Speaker 5: little bit bamboozled by that. And it's like, well, the

465
00:25:57,680 --> 00:26:02,439
Speaker 5: scientists are saying this, that, and the other about the past,

466
00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:05,600
Speaker 5: and so therefore, since they're scientists, they're the experts, I

467
00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:07,720
Speaker 5: have to go with what they say. And I think,

468
00:26:07,880 --> 00:26:18,880
Speaker 5: I think because what poses as science presents the biggest

469
00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:23,280
Speaker 5: threat to belief in the Bible, and specifically in the

470
00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:27,640
Speaker 5: first eleven chapters of Genesis, we have to talk about

471
00:26:27,640 --> 00:26:30,479
Speaker 5: the science because it's the it's the it's the rocks

472
00:26:30,680 --> 00:26:33,719
Speaker 5: that are portrayed as being millions of years old, you know,

473
00:26:33,840 --> 00:26:35,640
Speaker 5: that's that are set against.

474
00:26:35,880 --> 00:26:38,359
Speaker 2: Uh, the Bible.

475
00:26:38,600 --> 00:26:41,000
Speaker 5: It's the fossils that are portrayed as being millions of

476
00:26:41,080 --> 00:26:46,760
Speaker 5: years old that in our minds oppose the Bible's view.

477
00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:51,760
Speaker 5: It's it's the starlight that's that's posed as being you know,

478
00:26:52,520 --> 00:26:57,240
Speaker 5: trillions of light years away and therefore trillions of years old.

479
00:26:57,920 --> 00:27:01,760
Speaker 5: That's what that's what's in our our minds, and that's

480
00:27:01,800 --> 00:27:06,840
Speaker 5: what's keeping so many people, including me, when I when

481
00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:11,000
Speaker 5: I was bamboozled by that from from taking God at

482
00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:11,359
Speaker 5: his word.

483
00:27:11,640 --> 00:27:13,840
Speaker 2: So that's why that's why we talk about the science.

484
00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:16,199
Speaker 3: Okay, so do you say, are you saying they have

485
00:27:16,760 --> 00:27:20,679
Speaker 3: the same evidence. I mean, both creationists and evolutionists have

486
00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:23,919
Speaker 3: the same evidence, it's just the worldview they're looking at

487
00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:26,120
Speaker 3: it with. Is that what you're referring to as far

488
00:27:26,119 --> 00:27:28,200
Speaker 3: as the posing as science.

489
00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:31,320
Speaker 2: Part of things, Yes, but it's more than that.

490
00:27:31,640 --> 00:27:33,600
Speaker 5: I mean, we have the same rocks, we're the same fossils,

491
00:27:33,600 --> 00:27:36,520
Speaker 5: we have the same starlight, for sure, And it's how

492
00:27:36,520 --> 00:27:41,720
Speaker 5: we it's how we perceive those and interpret those that

493
00:27:41,920 --> 00:27:44,280
Speaker 5: builds a that comes out of a worldview that we have.

494
00:27:44,520 --> 00:27:46,120
Speaker 2: So but it's.

495
00:27:45,960 --> 00:27:51,000
Speaker 5: Also this worldview also frames what questions we even want

496
00:27:51,119 --> 00:27:55,080
Speaker 5: to ask, or are willing to ask, what scientific inquiries

497
00:27:55,080 --> 00:28:00,080
Speaker 5: we're willing to go down. It frames the selection of

498
00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:07,879
Speaker 5: which results, because we can become very selective, you know,

499
00:28:08,040 --> 00:28:12,119
Speaker 5: in accepting into our minds, in into the diet of

500
00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:15,240
Speaker 5: our hearts, if you will, only those things which.

501
00:28:15,040 --> 00:28:16,320
Speaker 2: We want to agree with.

502
00:28:17,040 --> 00:28:20,919
Speaker 5: So so we've seen this in a lot of examples,

503
00:28:20,920 --> 00:28:25,040
Speaker 5: like with recently with COVID, the COVID years, weren't those

504
00:28:25,040 --> 00:28:25,800
Speaker 5: great fun.

505
00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:28,640
Speaker 2: Wonderful then and we have people along these.

506
00:28:28,560 --> 00:28:31,119
Speaker 5: Separate battle lines and it's like, well, I'm only gonna

507
00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:35,520
Speaker 5: accept the YouTube videos that talk about how COVID is

508
00:28:36,320 --> 00:28:38,760
Speaker 5: it's all a government scam or you know, some kind

509
00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:43,080
Speaker 5: of conspiracy, and then the other the other people are

510
00:28:43,080 --> 00:28:45,320
Speaker 5: on the other side going, you know, give me as

511
00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:48,280
Speaker 5: many jabs as I can possibly fit, jab jab jab

512
00:28:48,280 --> 00:28:50,160
Speaker 5: one hunter, you know, and it's like, I want all

513
00:28:50,160 --> 00:28:53,160
Speaker 5: the all the treatments, you know. So we we we

514
00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:57,080
Speaker 5: tunnel we tunnel vision, you know, we we become sort

515
00:28:57,120 --> 00:28:59,040
Speaker 5: of wrapped up in our own little So that's just

516
00:28:59,680 --> 00:29:03,360
Speaker 5: a all recent example of the principle that I'm trying

517
00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:06,640
Speaker 5: to get at, and that is, you know, if I

518
00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:11,320
Speaker 5: believe in in evolution, that I'm not gonna that's settled

519
00:29:11,320 --> 00:29:14,680
Speaker 5: in my mind, and I'm not going to even ask questions,

520
00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:19,960
Speaker 5: ask research questions that that that challenge that, and I'm

521
00:29:19,960 --> 00:29:23,840
Speaker 5: not going to accept evidences, even if they're real and

522
00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:28,600
Speaker 5: come from legitimate observations and science well done. I'm just

523
00:29:28,640 --> 00:29:30,600
Speaker 5: not going to accept that because it just doesn't it

524
00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:33,440
Speaker 5: doesn't fit what I have already chosen to believe and

525
00:29:33,440 --> 00:29:35,840
Speaker 5: what I've chosen to believe is what the majority of

526
00:29:35,840 --> 00:29:37,640
Speaker 5: the world believes. And that's all I need to know

527
00:29:37,840 --> 00:29:39,120
Speaker 5: because I don't want to be uncool.

528
00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:42,280
Speaker 4: Yeah, so not cool? You're a creationist?

529
00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:43,200
Speaker 3: What? Yes?

530
00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:45,040
Speaker 4: Yeah? Absolutely, yeah.

531
00:29:45,080 --> 00:29:47,680
Speaker 3: I definitely think it takes an element of humility, I

532
00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:50,360
Speaker 3: mean another gospel tie, and of course you know where

533
00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:53,120
Speaker 3: it takes us humbling ourselves and admitting we're in the

534
00:29:53,120 --> 00:29:56,360
Speaker 3: wrong and you know, submitting to God's authority on that.

535
00:29:56,960 --> 00:29:58,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, we come out of the box with a lot

536
00:29:58,520 --> 00:30:00,520
Speaker 2: of pride, don't we. Yeah, at least I do. I

537
00:30:00,560 --> 00:30:01,080
Speaker 2: don't know about you.

538
00:30:01,120 --> 00:30:03,840
Speaker 4: Oh, I absolutely do. Yeah, I think we all do.

539
00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:06,760
Speaker 3: And you know that's all pointing to God's transformative work

540
00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:08,720
Speaker 3: in our hearts, you know, because we don't do that

541
00:30:08,760 --> 00:30:09,680
Speaker 3: on our own, of course.

542
00:30:10,680 --> 00:30:15,000
Speaker 5: But and to think that the Lord Jesus, you know,

543
00:30:15,680 --> 00:30:20,880
Speaker 5: he's on earth and he's sharing truth, not just like

544
00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:24,880
Speaker 5: as some sort of wise sage. He's not just sharing

545
00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:29,400
Speaker 5: the truth. He is truth embodied. Everything he does is

546
00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:35,040
Speaker 5: true and right, everything he thinks is true. And the

547
00:30:35,080 --> 00:30:38,560
Speaker 5: Pharisees are coming at him saying, you know, you just

548
00:30:38,560 --> 00:30:41,560
Speaker 5: did that miracle. We saw it, but the devil did

549
00:30:41,560 --> 00:30:43,920
Speaker 5: it through you. And here he is the creator of

550
00:30:43,920 --> 00:30:48,560
Speaker 5: the universe, being accused of being the devil. You talk

551
00:30:48,600 --> 00:30:52,080
Speaker 5: about an opportunity for him to be proud and to say,

552
00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:55,600
Speaker 5: you know what, I've had enough of you guys. I

553
00:30:55,600 --> 00:30:58,000
Speaker 5: think I'll just blink and you won't exist anymore. You know,

554
00:30:58,360 --> 00:31:00,280
Speaker 5: Like if I was God, I'd be like, that's it,

555
00:31:00,320 --> 00:31:02,719
Speaker 5: You're out of the pool. Yeah, tweet, blow the whistle.

556
00:31:03,560 --> 00:31:09,680
Speaker 5: But he was humble, you know, he was humbled enough

557
00:31:09,720 --> 00:31:12,240
Speaker 5: to say he humbled himself to the point of death.

558
00:31:12,400 --> 00:31:15,520
Speaker 5: Death on the cross Philippines too, you know. And so

559
00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:20,160
Speaker 5: he he said to those guys, patiently explaining, no, I'm

560
00:31:20,200 --> 00:31:21,440
Speaker 5: not doing these things of the devil.

561
00:31:21,920 --> 00:31:23,920
Speaker 2: I'm doing these things of the Lord.

562
00:31:23,920 --> 00:31:26,480
Speaker 5: And here's how you can tell, you know, I'm fulfilling

563
00:31:26,480 --> 00:31:28,280
Speaker 5: the Old Testament prophecies about.

564
00:31:28,000 --> 00:31:29,400
Speaker 4: Me, just casually.

565
00:31:31,240 --> 00:31:34,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, and he's so patient and humble anyway, I digress.

566
00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:37,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, those are all amazing points. And just

567
00:31:37,560 --> 00:31:40,640
Speaker 3: thinking about the evidences, you know, in support of Genesis

568
00:31:40,680 --> 00:31:44,320
Speaker 3: specific examples that we see, there are several, I mean

569
00:31:44,600 --> 00:31:48,160
Speaker 3: countless examples of evidence in support of what Genesis says

570
00:31:48,160 --> 00:31:51,080
Speaker 3: about who we are and how we got here. So

571
00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:54,200
Speaker 3: one of those topics is astronomy. So can you give

572
00:31:54,600 --> 00:31:58,320
Speaker 3: a few examples of evidences in astronomy that point to

573
00:31:58,680 --> 00:32:00,400
Speaker 3: what Genesis says about our ens?

574
00:32:01,120 --> 00:32:02,400
Speaker 2: I do? And so what I did?

575
00:32:02,520 --> 00:32:04,960
Speaker 5: I have just one chapter on the science in the book,

576
00:32:05,600 --> 00:32:08,520
Speaker 5: and I tried to I tried to focus on like

577
00:32:08,840 --> 00:32:13,520
Speaker 5: the most easily comprehensible you know, of these evidences from

578
00:32:13,560 --> 00:32:14,640
Speaker 5: the different categories.

579
00:32:15,760 --> 00:32:17,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, in astronomy is one of them.

580
00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:21,840
Speaker 5: There are so many young looking features that my secular

581
00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:24,880
Speaker 5: colleagues just don't even talk about. Again, with the bias

582
00:32:24,920 --> 00:32:30,200
Speaker 5: that excludes certain evidences that don't fit the worldview, I

583
00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:32,520
Speaker 5: think that's a possible cause for why they don't talk

584
00:32:32,560 --> 00:32:35,520
Speaker 5: about it as much as I think they should. I

585
00:32:35,560 --> 00:32:38,520
Speaker 5: talk about it. In fact, we have a website ICR

586
00:32:38,600 --> 00:32:44,080
Speaker 5: dot org and we have thousands of articles.

587
00:32:42,520 --> 00:32:43,360
Speaker 2: That cover.

588
00:32:44,760 --> 00:32:48,200
Speaker 5: Just you know, like you said, so many evidences, even

589
00:32:48,200 --> 00:32:52,520
Speaker 5: from astronomy. And so there's youthful looking features like the

590
00:32:52,560 --> 00:32:57,360
Speaker 5: moon Io in our solar system is the most volcanically active.

591
00:32:57,560 --> 00:32:58,960
Speaker 4: What planet is that moon?

592
00:32:59,000 --> 00:32:59,040
Speaker 3: With?

593
00:32:59,720 --> 00:33:03,239
Speaker 2: Oh, you had to ask me, was it Jupiter? You

594
00:33:03,280 --> 00:33:04,160
Speaker 2: probably know more than me.

595
00:33:04,280 --> 00:33:06,400
Speaker 4: I don't know Jupiter.

596
00:33:07,080 --> 00:33:09,880
Speaker 3: I don't know for sure, but yes, I'm sorry to

597
00:33:09,880 --> 00:33:11,080
Speaker 3: interrupt Yeah.

598
00:33:10,920 --> 00:33:13,880
Speaker 5: It's the most volcanically active in the Solar System. And

599
00:33:13,560 --> 00:33:16,240
Speaker 5: the and the question is how can it have all

600
00:33:16,320 --> 00:33:20,520
Speaker 5: this you know, energy, and it's still shooting out all

601
00:33:20,520 --> 00:33:26,000
Speaker 5: these volcanoes. But Saturn itself puts out more energy than

602
00:33:26,040 --> 00:33:27,920
Speaker 5: it should if it's you know, you know, all these

603
00:33:28,000 --> 00:33:31,680
Speaker 5: all these Solar System bodies should be old, cold and dead.

604
00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:34,840
Speaker 5: If they're billions of years old, all their energy should

605
00:33:34,880 --> 00:33:38,400
Speaker 5: have run out, but they they put out heat. There's

606
00:33:38,480 --> 00:33:42,000
Speaker 5: evidence of you know, magnetic fields that are still strong.

607
00:33:42,080 --> 00:33:45,680
Speaker 5: They shouldn't be, they should be long dead. And and

608
00:33:45,800 --> 00:33:49,960
Speaker 5: even in distant space, we have the galaxy wind up problem.

609
00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:55,480
Speaker 5: It's a problem for the billions of years concept, because

610
00:33:55,520 --> 00:33:58,520
Speaker 5: the galaxies are winding up, the spiral galaxies you know

611
00:33:58,560 --> 00:34:01,640
Speaker 5: with those long, beautiful swirly arms. Yeah, those are the

612
00:34:01,680 --> 00:34:05,040
Speaker 5: middle winds up faster than the outer arms, and so

613
00:34:05,160 --> 00:34:08,320
Speaker 5: they should have wound themselves into a into a disc shape.

614
00:34:08,320 --> 00:34:10,880
Speaker 5: We shouldn't have, you know, at least the ones that

615
00:34:10,920 --> 00:34:13,319
Speaker 5: are super far away. They should they should have they

616
00:34:13,320 --> 00:34:20,120
Speaker 5: shouldn't exist. So we have young looking galaxies in distant space.

617
00:34:20,480 --> 00:34:23,560
Speaker 2: How are how are those there? How can those be there?

618
00:34:23,560 --> 00:34:24,959
Speaker 2: If they're billions of years old.

619
00:34:25,560 --> 00:34:30,520
Speaker 5: The maximum life spans I think five hundred five hundred

620
00:34:31,320 --> 00:34:36,520
Speaker 5: billion in theory, but the age assignments on them is

621
00:34:36,560 --> 00:34:41,040
Speaker 5: trillions something like that, you know. So how can it

622
00:34:41,080 --> 00:34:44,120
Speaker 5: be trillions if it's if it's still got those spiral arms.

623
00:34:44,120 --> 00:34:47,759
Speaker 5: I mean, that's a question. And so we we think

624
00:34:47,800 --> 00:34:52,040
Speaker 5: we have these these answers. We think, we think that

625
00:34:52,120 --> 00:34:55,920
Speaker 5: outer space, you know, looks with the with the secular notions.

626
00:34:56,400 --> 00:34:58,920
Speaker 5: But the more we ask questions about the more we

627
00:34:58,920 --> 00:35:01,360
Speaker 5: look into it with with better and better telescopes like

628
00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:03,640
Speaker 5: the James Web, we're set. We're seeing now even more

629
00:35:03,680 --> 00:35:07,960
Speaker 5: distant than ever before, galaxies that are that are not

630
00:35:08,080 --> 00:35:12,760
Speaker 5: yet wound up. They look young, yeah, in that way,

631
00:35:13,320 --> 00:35:17,000
Speaker 5: and so maybe we actually have a younger universe than

632
00:35:17,160 --> 00:35:21,000
Speaker 5: everybody believes. Well wait a minute, that would fit the Bible.

633
00:35:22,120 --> 00:35:25,799
Speaker 3: That can't be possible, of course, Yeah.

634
00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:26,520
Speaker 2: And everyone culls the Bible.

635
00:35:26,600 --> 00:35:28,799
Speaker 5: And I don't want to be you know, I don't

636
00:35:28,800 --> 00:35:30,719
Speaker 5: want to be the uncool person on that.

637
00:35:30,840 --> 00:35:32,319
Speaker 4: Yeah, absolutely, I know.

638
00:35:33,560 --> 00:35:35,839
Speaker 3: Yeah, And even just looking at our universe, I mean,

639
00:35:36,280 --> 00:35:39,160
Speaker 3: like you were talking about, with the spiral galaxies, these beautiful,

640
00:35:39,200 --> 00:35:42,799
Speaker 3: beautiful galaxies that we have, and you know, is the

641
00:35:42,800 --> 00:35:45,920
Speaker 3: Big Bang, still the prevailing theory on that that everything

642
00:35:46,080 --> 00:35:49,320
Speaker 3: just exploded into existence. How did How do secular scientists

643
00:35:49,360 --> 00:35:50,759
Speaker 3: explain how it all came to be?

644
00:35:52,520 --> 00:35:55,719
Speaker 5: Oh, I think they wave magic wands and they tell

645
00:35:55,800 --> 00:35:57,400
Speaker 5: you know, I've I've heard them talk about it and

646
00:35:57,440 --> 00:35:59,759
Speaker 5: write about it, and it's they it's just it's just

647
00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:04,640
Speaker 5: latent faith statements based on no science. And basically it's

648
00:36:04,680 --> 00:36:07,759
Speaker 5: the craziest of faith statements because you have to get

649
00:36:07,800 --> 00:36:12,080
Speaker 5: everything from nothing. You have to get everything from nothing,

650
00:36:12,320 --> 00:36:15,000
Speaker 5: which is a violation of the first law of thermodynamics,

651
00:36:15,120 --> 00:36:18,719
Speaker 5: which says that space, energy, and matter don't just pop

652
00:36:18,760 --> 00:36:21,879
Speaker 5: into existence, and they don't just as the kids used

653
00:36:21,920 --> 00:36:26,960
Speaker 5: to say, they don't just dip out of existence. I

654
00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:28,920
Speaker 5: say used to say it because I said it that

655
00:36:28,960 --> 00:36:30,400
Speaker 5: way to a group of kids and they were like,

656
00:36:30,400 --> 00:36:31,400
Speaker 5: I don't know what you're saying.

657
00:36:32,200 --> 00:36:34,360
Speaker 3: So ten years ago, ten years ago exactly.

658
00:36:35,719 --> 00:36:40,640
Speaker 2: But so matter and energy are not created or destroyed.

659
00:36:41,200 --> 00:36:44,760
Speaker 2: And yet we have this theory which poses as science,

660
00:36:44,960 --> 00:36:49,840
Speaker 2: but it violates in the worst possible way, not just

661
00:36:49,880 --> 00:36:52,160
Speaker 2: having a little bit of matter coming into existence out

662
00:36:52,160 --> 00:36:54,960
Speaker 2: of nowhere, but having all of matter and energy coming

663
00:36:55,040 --> 00:36:56,320
Speaker 2: into existence out of nowhere.

664
00:36:57,560 --> 00:37:00,759
Speaker 5: It's silly talk. Really, it's not scientific. It all in

665
00:37:00,800 --> 00:37:03,480
Speaker 5: that way. So then the so that we asked the question,

666
00:37:03,920 --> 00:37:08,480
Speaker 5: did the universe have a beginning? If the universe is

667
00:37:08,520 --> 00:37:12,719
Speaker 5: the only explanation for if the universe is all there,

668
00:37:12,719 --> 00:37:16,000
Speaker 5: ever was, ever will be, Like Carl Sagan said, Okay,

669
00:37:16,200 --> 00:37:18,239
Speaker 5: you're too young, you don't know. Okay, Carl Sagan was

670
00:37:18,280 --> 00:37:22,160
Speaker 5: this guy and he was a real popular scientist in

671
00:37:22,200 --> 00:37:25,640
Speaker 5: the eighties, and that's what he said. And that's a

672
00:37:25,640 --> 00:37:29,040
Speaker 5: faith statement, okay, because if that's true, what you know.

673
00:37:29,080 --> 00:37:31,040
Speaker 2: We asked the question did the universe have a beginning?

674
00:37:31,600 --> 00:37:33,840
Speaker 5: If the answers yes, then the universe had to pop

675
00:37:33,880 --> 00:37:36,319
Speaker 5: into existence out of nothing, which violates the first law.

676
00:37:36,520 --> 00:37:39,200
Speaker 5: If the answers no, the universe had no beginning, then

677
00:37:39,280 --> 00:37:42,560
Speaker 5: what then what does it always existed? Well, I guess

678
00:37:42,600 --> 00:37:45,520
Speaker 5: so that means you have an eternal universe. But if

679
00:37:45,560 --> 00:37:49,359
Speaker 5: the universe is eternal, it would have burned out all

680
00:37:49,360 --> 00:37:53,520
Speaker 5: the sons would have burned out an eternity ago. And

681
00:37:53,560 --> 00:37:56,160
Speaker 5: yet we still have sons with the sons are still

682
00:37:56,239 --> 00:37:59,600
Speaker 5: organized into galaxies, galaxies into galactic clusters.

683
00:38:00,160 --> 00:38:03,920
Speaker 2: It's all organized, it's all, it all has its energy

684
00:38:03,960 --> 00:38:04,160
Speaker 2: to it.

685
00:38:04,239 --> 00:38:06,880
Speaker 5: So so the only way to get the universe that

686
00:38:06,880 --> 00:38:10,880
Speaker 5: we have, which couldn't come from nothing and couldn't be

687
00:38:10,920 --> 00:38:15,360
Speaker 5: eternal either, is to have come from someone who's outside

688
00:38:15,400 --> 00:38:19,160
Speaker 5: the universe, who brought this universe into existence. Well, that

689
00:38:19,200 --> 00:38:22,520
Speaker 5: means it's a supernatural origin, and that means miracles are

690
00:38:22,520 --> 00:38:25,160
Speaker 5: how really things really happened. And guess what Genesis one

691
00:38:25,200 --> 00:38:30,720
Speaker 5: one says about that in the beginning, God nothing made everything.

692
00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:33,120
Speaker 2: No, I didn't say that at the beginning, God.

693
00:38:32,960 --> 00:38:36,080
Speaker 5: Who's outside of everything, he made everything. That's like one

694
00:38:36,080 --> 00:38:40,120
Speaker 5: of the most scientifically defensible statements just in terms of

695
00:38:40,160 --> 00:38:42,640
Speaker 5: the first and second laws, because these are the two laws,

696
00:38:43,040 --> 00:38:46,360
Speaker 5: most fundamental, most best proven laws in all of science.

697
00:38:46,440 --> 00:38:48,839
Speaker 5: These two laws don't get me started. I thought we

698
00:38:48,840 --> 00:38:50,560
Speaker 5: were talking about astronomy.

699
00:38:50,760 --> 00:38:53,560
Speaker 3: Yes, well, and I think just something that and correct

700
00:38:53,560 --> 00:38:55,040
Speaker 3: me if I'm wrong on this. But what you're saying

701
00:38:55,120 --> 00:38:58,959
Speaker 3: is that everybody has faith in something, whether they admit

702
00:38:59,000 --> 00:39:01,839
Speaker 3: it or not. You can either believe in you know,

703
00:39:02,840 --> 00:39:08,800
Speaker 3: nothingness creating somethingness, or an infinitely personal God who created

704
00:39:08,840 --> 00:39:11,839
Speaker 3: everything out of his perfect, perfect design and order.

705
00:39:12,480 --> 00:39:14,320
Speaker 4: And I think that's such a such a great point.

706
00:39:15,400 --> 00:39:19,200
Speaker 3: So once all of this something thiss happened. Of course,

707
00:39:19,239 --> 00:39:21,560
Speaker 3: now we have people, and now we have animals and

708
00:39:21,560 --> 00:39:24,640
Speaker 3: plants and all these things in biology. So could you

709
00:39:24,719 --> 00:39:26,520
Speaker 3: talk on some of the evidences that we see in

710
00:39:26,560 --> 00:39:28,640
Speaker 3: biology related to creation.

711
00:39:29,200 --> 00:39:31,040
Speaker 5: One of the one of the coolest new evidences that

712
00:39:31,080 --> 00:39:35,799
Speaker 5: I've been learning about is four bar mechanisms. And so

713
00:39:35,960 --> 00:39:40,120
Speaker 5: these are these are what we call all are nothing structures.

714
00:39:40,200 --> 00:39:42,920
Speaker 5: We see them in pump jacks where you see them

715
00:39:42,920 --> 00:39:46,040
Speaker 5: pumping oil out of the ground. And it's four bars

716
00:39:46,760 --> 00:39:50,200
Speaker 5: and these four bars are all linked at each end

717
00:39:50,239 --> 00:39:53,520
Speaker 5: with a with a with a joint. The four bars

718
00:39:53,600 --> 00:39:58,279
Speaker 5: transfer leverage from from from some sort of you know,

719
00:39:59,080 --> 00:40:02,400
Speaker 5: uh energy, So it transfers leverage to in order to

720
00:40:02,440 --> 00:40:05,480
Speaker 5: do a specific type of work and too and to

721
00:40:05,760 --> 00:40:09,279
Speaker 5: and to do and to optimize the force generated. What

722
00:40:09,320 --> 00:40:10,960
Speaker 5: does this have to do with biology, Well, we see

723
00:40:11,000 --> 00:40:15,799
Speaker 5: it in pump jacks, but we also see it in well,

724
00:40:15,840 --> 00:40:18,759
Speaker 5: the steering mechanisms in our car. So when you turn

725
00:40:18,800 --> 00:40:21,960
Speaker 5: the steering wheel in your car, that attaches to four bars,

726
00:40:22,560 --> 00:40:25,040
Speaker 5: and those four bars attached to the wheels, so it

727
00:40:25,080 --> 00:40:30,120
Speaker 5: transfers the leverage of your hand motion into you know,

728
00:40:30,920 --> 00:40:33,799
Speaker 5: into the turning the actual wheel so four bar mechanisms

729
00:40:34,680 --> 00:40:36,400
Speaker 5: are all or nothing, because if you take one of

730
00:40:36,400 --> 00:40:38,880
Speaker 5: those four bars out of place, what do you have.

731
00:40:41,040 --> 00:40:42,640
Speaker 2: A mess? Yeah, it doesn't.

732
00:40:42,719 --> 00:40:45,480
Speaker 5: It no longer does its job. But so in order

733
00:40:45,520 --> 00:40:48,760
Speaker 5: to get these four bars in place with the right size, shape,

734
00:40:48,800 --> 00:40:53,280
Speaker 5: and strength, someone had to have thought it out ahead

735
00:40:53,880 --> 00:40:58,279
Speaker 5: and put them together for that purpose. We know that intuitively.

736
00:40:58,320 --> 00:41:00,560
Speaker 5: As soon as we see a pump jack or during wheel,

737
00:41:00,560 --> 00:41:05,000
Speaker 5: we're like, okay, that's for this. It transfers the the

738
00:41:05,040 --> 00:41:07,479
Speaker 5: force so that it does work in a specific way

739
00:41:07,600 --> 00:41:11,239
Speaker 5: to get this particular purpose accomplished. We just don't even

740
00:41:11,239 --> 00:41:13,680
Speaker 5: think about that. It's just like someone did it. But

741
00:41:13,760 --> 00:41:16,520
Speaker 5: we have the same thing in our knees. Inside of

742
00:41:16,520 --> 00:41:22,560
Speaker 5: our knees, we have the ACL the MCL.

743
00:41:23,719 --> 00:41:24,160
Speaker 2: These are.

744
00:41:26,160 --> 00:41:29,560
Speaker 5: Interior Cruishit ligaments. There's two Cruishit ligaments. It crush it

745
00:41:29,680 --> 00:41:34,080
Speaker 5: just means cross form like cruise means cross because these

746
00:41:34,080 --> 00:41:37,600
Speaker 5: ligaments are in an X pattern, so they cross one

747
00:41:37,600 --> 00:41:39,840
Speaker 5: another and they're in the deepen the center of our knees.

748
00:41:39,960 --> 00:41:44,080
Speaker 5: So the bone forms one bar that is your femur,

749
00:41:44,520 --> 00:41:47,800
Speaker 5: and then you have the two ligaments. There's three bars,

750
00:41:47,880 --> 00:41:50,760
Speaker 5: and then your top of your tibia which is another bone,

751
00:41:51,120 --> 00:41:53,880
Speaker 5: forms the fourth bar. So we have four bar mechanism

752
00:41:55,160 --> 00:41:57,200
Speaker 5: in our knees and that's how we walk and run.

753
00:41:58,400 --> 00:42:04,120
Speaker 5: So with as much confidence as we would look at

754
00:42:04,120 --> 00:42:06,600
Speaker 5: a four bar mechanism beside the road or in our

755
00:42:06,600 --> 00:42:09,440
Speaker 5: cars and say someone did that on purpose, we can

756
00:42:09,480 --> 00:42:13,000
Speaker 5: at least as equally say someone made knees on purpose,

757
00:42:13,239 --> 00:42:15,359
Speaker 5: because how is nature going to do this? You have

758
00:42:15,400 --> 00:42:17,600
Speaker 5: to think ahead, you have to know exactly where you're

759
00:42:17,600 --> 00:42:19,680
Speaker 5: going to arrange these put him in the right place.

760
00:42:19,800 --> 00:42:24,200
Speaker 5: Positions have the right leverage to transfer force from your

761
00:42:24,360 --> 00:42:27,120
Speaker 5: upper leg to your feet, and so someone thought of

762
00:42:27,200 --> 00:42:31,000
Speaker 5: all that. So that's one of the of the I

763
00:42:31,040 --> 00:42:34,799
Speaker 5: don't know thousands of design features that we can talk

764
00:42:34,840 --> 00:42:38,440
Speaker 5: about in biology that point to a creator. And he

765
00:42:38,640 --> 00:42:42,480
Speaker 5: left his signature clear, so clear in what he's made

766
00:42:43,239 --> 00:42:45,680
Speaker 5: that Romans one twenty says that all men are without

767
00:42:45,760 --> 00:42:51,000
Speaker 5: excuse because we all see his divine attributes through that

768
00:42:51,040 --> 00:42:51,800
Speaker 5: which he has made.

769
00:42:52,800 --> 00:42:54,800
Speaker 2: And that's biology. That's why I love biology.

770
00:42:54,960 --> 00:42:58,759
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, His fingerprints truly are on everything everything we see.

771
00:42:58,800 --> 00:43:00,840
Speaker 3: I love how you sided Roman in that as well,

772
00:43:01,239 --> 00:43:04,040
Speaker 3: and even in the things that aren't living. So Versus

773
00:43:04,120 --> 00:43:07,759
Speaker 3: talks about the stones crying out, and you know, just

774
00:43:07,800 --> 00:43:10,279
Speaker 3: even what we see in the rocks of you know

775
00:43:10,320 --> 00:43:13,600
Speaker 3: how how even those just point to such complexity. And

776
00:43:13,640 --> 00:43:18,040
Speaker 3: so transitioning into now geology, what evidences do you see

777
00:43:18,040 --> 00:43:21,440
Speaker 3: in geology that point to the genesis creation?

778
00:43:22,520 --> 00:43:26,040
Speaker 5: Well, they point to the flood, which is also in

779
00:43:26,040 --> 00:43:29,320
Speaker 5: that Genesis one through eleven block of chapters that we

780
00:43:29,480 --> 00:43:32,040
Speaker 5: in our culture we like to disdain so much. But

781
00:43:33,400 --> 00:43:36,359
Speaker 5: don't be so quick to disdain genesis creation, because how

782
00:43:36,360 --> 00:43:39,600
Speaker 5: else do you get knees and four bar mechanisms. You

783
00:43:39,640 --> 00:43:41,640
Speaker 5: know that, by the way, that's in bird wings. Birds

784
00:43:41,680 --> 00:43:46,000
Speaker 5: wouldn't fly without it, and it's in fish mouths they

785
00:43:46,040 --> 00:43:48,320
Speaker 5: couldn't eat without for their four bar mechanisms.

786
00:43:48,360 --> 00:43:49,440
Speaker 2: So it's all over creation.

787
00:43:50,640 --> 00:43:53,520
Speaker 5: But these rocks, man, these So I just got back

788
00:43:53,560 --> 00:43:56,319
Speaker 5: from Grand Canyon a few weeks ago leading a tour group.

789
00:43:56,520 --> 00:43:58,080
Speaker 5: I was a tour guide for a group of students,

790
00:43:58,120 --> 00:44:00,000
Speaker 5: and it's great fun because we can put our hands

791
00:44:00,200 --> 00:44:02,319
Speaker 5: on the rocks. I could say, Okay, show me the

792
00:44:02,360 --> 00:44:05,240
Speaker 5: evidence between this layer below and this layer above.

793
00:44:06,080 --> 00:44:07,640
Speaker 2: Show me the evidence that this.

794
00:44:07,600 --> 00:44:12,200
Speaker 5: Layer below actually was exposed to Earth's surface for millions

795
00:44:12,239 --> 00:44:14,799
Speaker 5: of years before the layer above.

796
00:44:15,440 --> 00:44:18,200
Speaker 2: Was deposited on top of it. What would have happened to.

797
00:44:18,160 --> 00:44:21,560
Speaker 5: The upper surface of this layer if it was really

798
00:44:21,600 --> 00:44:24,840
Speaker 5: exposed for millions of years, erosion would have happened. You

799
00:44:24,840 --> 00:44:29,120
Speaker 5: should see ruts, erosion ruts. Show me some and you

800
00:44:29,160 --> 00:44:32,600
Speaker 5: can look out for hundreds of miles and see flat

801
00:44:32,719 --> 00:44:38,799
Speaker 5: topped layers. So you can't have these exposures for eons.

802
00:44:39,360 --> 00:44:44,920
Speaker 5: It looks instead like each layer, each flat contact between

803
00:44:44,920 --> 00:44:48,560
Speaker 5: these layers, Each layer was deposited soon after the other

804
00:44:48,680 --> 00:44:50,759
Speaker 5: one was laid down, and quickly the next one quickly

805
00:44:50,800 --> 00:44:55,319
Speaker 5: the one after that, and to the notion of each well,

806
00:44:55,360 --> 00:44:57,640
Speaker 5: maybe we can't fit the time in between the layers.

807
00:44:57,680 --> 00:45:01,279
Speaker 5: Maybe there's a way to fit the time inside the

808
00:45:01,400 --> 00:45:04,680
Speaker 5: rock layer. Maybe we can have a slow accumulation rate,

809
00:45:04,840 --> 00:45:08,279
Speaker 5: you know, where sand slowly settled in the bottom of

810
00:45:08,320 --> 00:45:10,600
Speaker 5: an ancient sea, you know, or something like that.

811
00:45:11,280 --> 00:45:12,000
Speaker 2: If that were the.

812
00:45:11,960 --> 00:45:15,680
Speaker 5: Case, there would be no fossils because fossil have to

813
00:45:15,719 --> 00:45:18,960
Speaker 5: be buried rapidly or they would just rot. The carcasses

814
00:45:18,960 --> 00:45:21,600
Speaker 5: would rot, would never become fossils. So they have to

815
00:45:21,640 --> 00:45:24,520
Speaker 5: be fast flowing, which is short time, and you have

816
00:45:24,560 --> 00:45:28,359
Speaker 5: to have very very little time between the layers. So

817
00:45:28,880 --> 00:45:31,920
Speaker 5: you know it in a similar manner to what I

818
00:45:32,040 --> 00:45:34,279
Speaker 5: used to do with Genesis, like where can I fit

819
00:45:34,320 --> 00:45:36,920
Speaker 5: the time? And you know that, can I fit it

820
00:45:36,920 --> 00:45:39,040
Speaker 5: in between verse one and two? Or can I fit

821
00:45:39,080 --> 00:45:40,719
Speaker 5: it in these days? Or where can I fit all

822
00:45:40,719 --> 00:45:43,600
Speaker 5: this time? Now the tables have turned for me, and

823
00:45:43,640 --> 00:45:46,799
Speaker 5: I'm like, well, this is recent creation, recent flood about

824
00:45:46,840 --> 00:45:52,560
Speaker 5: forty four hundred years ago according to the Bible. And

825
00:45:52,680 --> 00:45:54,319
Speaker 5: now I'm looking at the rock layers, going well, wait,

826
00:45:54,320 --> 00:45:56,359
Speaker 5: where's the evidence of this time? And I can't find

827
00:45:56,360 --> 00:45:59,560
Speaker 5: any place to squeeze in the time. So that's that's

828
00:45:59,600 --> 00:46:02,160
Speaker 5: one way that we look at geology. Just everyone can

829
00:46:02,200 --> 00:46:06,120
Speaker 5: get that, you know, it's like common sense, yeah geology,

830
00:46:06,239 --> 00:46:12,080
Speaker 5: and most geologists would scoff at that, but it's defensible.

831
00:46:12,200 --> 00:46:13,719
Speaker 2: So sorry, yeah, yeah.

832
00:46:13,760 --> 00:46:15,359
Speaker 3: Well it's so interesting because I don't know if they

833
00:46:15,360 --> 00:46:17,879
Speaker 3: still have this, but one point Grand Canyon they had

834
00:46:17,880 --> 00:46:20,080
Speaker 3: like a trail of time where it was all these

835
00:46:20,120 --> 00:46:22,600
Speaker 3: like you know, rock layers they had and some sort

836
00:46:22,640 --> 00:46:25,319
Speaker 3: of example the model of the Grand Canyon I guess

837
00:46:25,320 --> 00:46:27,640
Speaker 3: you will and they said, oh, yeah, like each layers

838
00:46:27,680 --> 00:46:30,560
Speaker 3: millions of years, but they're completely flat like pancakes.

839
00:46:30,600 --> 00:46:33,600
Speaker 4: And so it's just so interesting to see how same.

840
00:46:33,400 --> 00:46:37,720
Speaker 3: Evidence but completely different theories of how they got there. Yes,

841
00:46:38,360 --> 00:46:40,880
Speaker 3: and so our final category that I would love to

842
00:46:40,880 --> 00:46:43,279
Speaker 3: talk about is actually something that you've done a lot

843
00:46:43,360 --> 00:46:44,080
Speaker 3: of work in.

844
00:46:44,000 --> 00:46:46,759
Speaker 4: And that is fossil proteins. So could you talk a

845
00:46:46,800 --> 00:46:47,520
Speaker 4: little bit more.

846
00:46:47,400 --> 00:46:50,520
Speaker 3: About the evidence that we see in fossils that point

847
00:46:50,600 --> 00:46:52,680
Speaker 3: to a recent and special creation.

848
00:46:53,920 --> 00:46:56,520
Speaker 5: It's yeah, again, it points to a recent flood because

849
00:46:56,560 --> 00:46:58,640
Speaker 5: some of the fossils that we have in these flood layers,

850
00:46:58,680 --> 00:47:06,560
Speaker 5: these flood rocks around the world have proteins still in them. Now,

851
00:47:06,600 --> 00:47:09,279
Speaker 5: proteins don't last that long, I mean, and we know

852
00:47:09,320 --> 00:47:12,560
Speaker 5: that because of not just intuition, but actual decay rates

853
00:47:12,600 --> 00:47:17,880
Speaker 5: studies where we put the protein in an idealized environment

854
00:47:17,960 --> 00:47:22,160
Speaker 5: in a lab and then we accelerate the rate at

855
00:47:22,160 --> 00:47:25,759
Speaker 5: which it decays just basically by adding heat. So when

856
00:47:25,800 --> 00:47:28,480
Speaker 5: you heat it up, it decays a lot faster than

857
00:47:28,520 --> 00:47:31,120
Speaker 5: it would normally decay. And then you can measure that

858
00:47:31,160 --> 00:47:35,160
Speaker 5: decay rate and then extrapolate it to you know, it

859
00:47:35,280 --> 00:47:37,520
Speaker 5: varies on temperature, but you can extrapolate it into the

860
00:47:37,520 --> 00:47:41,000
Speaker 5: past and you get a maximum lifespan for these proteins

861
00:47:41,000 --> 00:47:43,760
Speaker 5: that no more than a million years based on these studies,

862
00:47:44,760 --> 00:47:47,240
Speaker 5: based on lab bench repeatable studies.

863
00:47:47,239 --> 00:47:49,799
Speaker 4: So there's a kink in some of the evolutionary time.

864
00:47:50,120 --> 00:47:52,759
Speaker 5: Yeah, it really does throw a wrench into evolutionary time

865
00:47:52,880 --> 00:47:53,760
Speaker 5: for these fossils.

866
00:47:53,800 --> 00:47:54,440
Speaker 2: And I grew up.

867
00:47:54,480 --> 00:47:57,600
Speaker 5: You know, one hundred percent fossils are millions of years old.

868
00:47:57,640 --> 00:48:01,160
Speaker 5: Everyone knows that, hundreds of millions for some of them.

869
00:48:01,680 --> 00:48:03,759
Speaker 5: But that's just these are just numbers that have been

870
00:48:03,920 --> 00:48:07,960
Speaker 5: like attached to the fossils and rocks. They're like labels

871
00:48:08,000 --> 00:48:10,920
Speaker 5: that humans have invented and given to the fossils and rocks.

872
00:48:11,320 --> 00:48:14,759
Speaker 5: But when we see blood vessels stilled inside bones they're

873
00:48:14,800 --> 00:48:18,239
Speaker 5: coming out of these fossils, we have to think, wait

874
00:48:18,280 --> 00:48:21,680
Speaker 5: a minute, maybe there's something wrong with the whole paradigm.

875
00:48:22,200 --> 00:48:25,920
Speaker 5: And it turns out that that it fits really well

876
00:48:26,200 --> 00:48:29,839
Speaker 5: with the genesis history of the flood. So if these

877
00:48:29,840 --> 00:48:33,600
Speaker 5: are flood fossils, they formed in the flood. That's only

878
00:48:33,640 --> 00:48:36,200
Speaker 5: thousands of years ago. So it's within the time limit

879
00:48:36,800 --> 00:48:40,320
Speaker 5: that these proteins can last according to the decay rate studies.

880
00:48:40,760 --> 00:48:45,480
Speaker 5: But the tens of millions plus age assignments are far

881
00:48:45,640 --> 00:48:49,360
Speaker 5: their order of magnitude beyond the maximum life span for

882
00:48:49,440 --> 00:48:55,800
Speaker 5: these proteins. So that's that's something I never learned in school.

883
00:48:56,520 --> 00:48:59,120
Speaker 5: I went to public schools in this country. What's wrong

884
00:48:59,160 --> 00:48:59,959
Speaker 5: with these meats?

885
00:49:00,440 --> 00:49:00,680
Speaker 4: Yeah?

886
00:49:00,760 --> 00:49:03,920
Speaker 3: I mean you see fossils and textbooks and they're like

887
00:49:03,960 --> 00:49:07,080
Speaker 3: this is a million bazillion year old whatever, and you

888
00:49:07,200 --> 00:49:09,040
Speaker 3: just sort like, Okay, the scientists are saying that it's

889
00:49:09,080 --> 00:49:09,839
Speaker 3: got to be that old.

890
00:49:10,080 --> 00:49:12,200
Speaker 4: So with that, how do secular.

891
00:49:11,800 --> 00:49:16,360
Speaker 3: Scientists justify the the finding of the fossil proteins? Like,

892
00:49:16,360 --> 00:49:18,239
Speaker 3: how do they how do they reconcile that with their

893
00:49:18,280 --> 00:49:19,440
Speaker 3: evolutionary beliefs?

894
00:49:19,560 --> 00:49:22,600
Speaker 2: Oh, several different ways. One is to ignore it.

895
00:49:23,600 --> 00:49:29,720
Speaker 5: Another is to to invent hypotheses it's really not original tissue.

896
00:49:29,719 --> 00:49:33,320
Speaker 5: Maybe it's something that bacteria have made that's been refuted

897
00:49:34,800 --> 00:49:37,520
Speaker 5: by now. And then another another is to is to

898
00:49:37,560 --> 00:49:45,840
Speaker 5: come up with preservation modes, preservation modes like special you know,

899
00:49:45,920 --> 00:49:49,840
Speaker 5: chemistry that may have gone on. And so that's what

900
00:49:49,880 --> 00:49:55,800
Speaker 5: they talk about most now is these preservation chemical preservation modes,

901
00:49:56,239 --> 00:49:58,680
Speaker 5: which is which is cute and all, except no one

902
00:49:58,719 --> 00:50:06,400
Speaker 5: has tested any of them. Wow, So until you test it, don't.

903
00:50:05,120 --> 00:50:07,399
Speaker 2: Go around saying, oh, yeah, we have an.

904
00:50:07,360 --> 00:50:11,400
Speaker 5: It'd be like I'm holding this coffee and it's still steaming.

905
00:50:12,680 --> 00:50:17,360
Speaker 5: And I say, you know, I've had this coffee sitting

906
00:50:17,400 --> 00:50:22,320
Speaker 5: on this table, this coffee cup for about two weeks.

907
00:50:22,960 --> 00:50:25,480
Speaker 5: I mean, would you believe me it was still steaming

908
00:50:25,480 --> 00:50:30,520
Speaker 5: after two weeks. No, because the second law of thermodynamics goes,

909
00:50:31,200 --> 00:50:36,239
Speaker 5: energy goes from high concentration to low concentration. Biomolecules go

910
00:50:36,280 --> 00:50:39,400
Speaker 5: from high degree of organization to low degree of organization,

911
00:50:39,560 --> 00:50:43,520
Speaker 5: so they're falling apart. So in the same way, it'd

912
00:50:43,560 --> 00:50:46,680
Speaker 5: be like, well, this is a special coffee mug, you know,

913
00:50:46,760 --> 00:50:49,200
Speaker 5: it's like special circumstance that we can pretend like it's

914
00:50:49,280 --> 00:50:52,680
Speaker 5: actually been steaming for two weeks and it's just wishful thinking.

915
00:50:54,280 --> 00:50:56,359
Speaker 2: So those are some ways that they deal with it.

916
00:50:56,600 --> 00:50:57,200
Speaker 4: Yeah.

917
00:50:57,280 --> 00:51:00,000
Speaker 3: Wow, And yeah, it's so pervasive in our culture today,

918
00:51:00,080 --> 00:51:02,760
Speaker 3: of course, as we've talked about. And would you say

919
00:51:02,800 --> 00:51:06,600
Speaker 3: that overall, is culture better or worse without Genesis?

920
00:51:07,160 --> 00:51:10,799
Speaker 2: Oh? Yeah, So speaking of culture, so.

921
00:51:14,320 --> 00:51:17,400
Speaker 5: There's a there's a there's a there may be a

922
00:51:17,480 --> 00:51:22,880
Speaker 5: spiritual reason to cling to culture's ideas of evolution in

923
00:51:22,920 --> 00:51:27,080
Speaker 5: millions of years and scoffing in Genesis, we've talked about

924
00:51:27,120 --> 00:51:31,640
Speaker 5: a cultural reason in terms of I don't want to

925
00:51:31,680 --> 00:51:35,200
Speaker 5: be the uncool person. And that's powerful, powerful motivator more

926
00:51:35,239 --> 00:51:38,560
Speaker 5: than truth, Like if even if it's true, I'm not

927
00:51:38,640 --> 00:51:41,800
Speaker 5: going to go with it if everyone else like that's

928
00:51:42,080 --> 00:51:46,080
Speaker 5: that's how human nature tends to work. We just go

929
00:51:46,160 --> 00:51:47,960
Speaker 5: with the flow with the crowd because we don't want

930
00:51:48,000 --> 00:51:54,719
Speaker 5: to stand out. But that's but there's another motivator, and

931
00:51:54,880 --> 00:51:57,279
Speaker 5: it's a spiritual one. Now, if we can envision a

932
00:51:57,400 --> 00:52:00,400
Speaker 5: universe that's that's eons old, then and guess what we

933
00:52:00,400 --> 00:52:02,719
Speaker 5: could do. We can push the idea of creation and

934
00:52:02,760 --> 00:52:07,960
Speaker 5: a creator way back into time and so we feel

935
00:52:07,960 --> 00:52:11,360
Speaker 5: like he's just out of the picture, and that helps

936
00:52:11,400 --> 00:52:16,960
Speaker 5: me feel like I'm no longer accountable for doing wrong.

937
00:52:17,400 --> 00:52:19,760
Speaker 5: So it's kind of like deep time is in bed

938
00:52:19,840 --> 00:52:25,160
Speaker 5: with our sinful nature's desire to pretend like we don't

939
00:52:25,200 --> 00:52:29,399
Speaker 5: have a sinful nature, right because because the heart, Jeremiah says,

940
00:52:29,480 --> 00:52:32,520
Speaker 5: is deceitful and wicked, who can know it?

941
00:52:32,760 --> 00:52:34,239
Speaker 2: Because we deceive ourselves.

942
00:52:34,920 --> 00:52:42,280
Speaker 5: And psychologists will tell you deception is not just because

943
00:52:42,360 --> 00:52:45,479
Speaker 5: the deceiver out there, it's because the deceiver is saying

944
00:52:45,520 --> 00:52:48,360
Speaker 5: something that you kind of like, and we are allowing

945
00:52:48,400 --> 00:52:50,560
Speaker 5: ourselves to be deceased. That's why Paul says, do not

946
00:52:50,640 --> 00:52:55,680
Speaker 5: be deceived, don't fall for these things, these untruths. But

947
00:52:55,840 --> 00:53:02,360
Speaker 5: pushing God out of our hearts. Pushing God out of

948
00:53:02,360 --> 00:53:06,080
Speaker 5: our hearts, that's what we've done since the Fall. That's

949
00:53:06,080 --> 00:53:09,440
Speaker 5: what we've done since canaan Abel, pushing God away.

950
00:53:10,440 --> 00:53:17,759
Speaker 2: And so I'm saying there's a judgment day.

951
00:53:17,880 --> 00:53:23,160
Speaker 5: The Bible says there's a judgment day. And if we

952
00:53:23,239 --> 00:53:26,080
Speaker 5: pretend like we don't have sin, like we don't have

953
00:53:26,120 --> 00:53:29,400
Speaker 5: a sin nature, we're deceiving ourselves. And if we pretend

954
00:53:29,480 --> 00:53:33,320
Speaker 5: like the world can make itself, therefore there's no creator,

955
00:53:33,360 --> 00:53:36,680
Speaker 5: we're deceiving ourselves. And if we pretend like, well, maybe

956
00:53:36,680 --> 00:53:38,560
Speaker 5: God did it, but he did it billions of years ago,

957
00:53:38,600 --> 00:53:40,600
Speaker 5: and he's really out of the picture, we're deceiving ourselves.

958
00:53:40,640 --> 00:53:43,279
Speaker 5: And we're trying to push God so far away that

959
00:53:43,320 --> 00:53:45,560
Speaker 5: we feel more comfortable doing what we want to do.

960
00:53:45,719 --> 00:53:48,000
Speaker 5: We don't want him to intrude with our lives. You see,

961
00:53:48,000 --> 00:53:50,719
Speaker 5: there's a spiritual connection. So I bring that out a

962
00:53:50,760 --> 00:53:53,480
Speaker 5: little bit in my book. And so that's one of

963
00:53:53,480 --> 00:53:57,320
Speaker 5: the reasons why I think we have a culture that

964
00:53:56,200 --> 00:53:59,880
Speaker 5: is that's against Genesis and against the God of Genesis

965
00:54:00,080 --> 00:54:01,200
Speaker 5: to a large degree today.

966
00:54:01,320 --> 00:54:04,160
Speaker 2: No, I'm not saying everybody, but but to a large degree.

967
00:54:04,239 --> 00:54:06,400
Speaker 5: And I think I think that's one reason is because

968
00:54:06,400 --> 00:54:10,920
Speaker 5: of our own our own dedication to our own idols.

969
00:54:10,920 --> 00:54:13,319
Speaker 5: As we talked about, ye, and I want to be

970
00:54:13,400 --> 00:54:16,360
Speaker 5: the boss and I don't want God. But I'm telling

971
00:54:16,400 --> 00:54:20,560
Speaker 5: you and you would agree because I know you. When

972
00:54:20,600 --> 00:54:25,799
Speaker 5: you when we say okay, Lord, you take over, that's

973
00:54:25,840 --> 00:54:27,360
Speaker 5: when he puts the pieces back together.

974
00:54:28,080 --> 00:54:29,040
Speaker 2: That's when new life.

975
00:54:29,080 --> 00:54:32,680
Speaker 5: We go from death to life just like that, and

976
00:54:32,719 --> 00:54:35,960
Speaker 5: he starts, he starts this process of knowing us and

977
00:54:36,080 --> 00:54:40,399
Speaker 5: us knowing him that lasts forever, so that when we die,

978
00:54:40,800 --> 00:54:43,080
Speaker 5: we get to be with him.

979
00:54:43,120 --> 00:54:43,919
Speaker 2: And because he's.

980
00:54:43,840 --> 00:54:46,680
Speaker 5: Already paid our death penalty, and so we get to

981
00:54:46,719 --> 00:54:48,839
Speaker 5: know him now and we get to know him even

982
00:54:48,920 --> 00:54:54,919
Speaker 5: more later and and and and that's worth, that's worth

983
00:54:54,960 --> 00:54:56,839
Speaker 5: giving up this whole world.

984
00:54:58,560 --> 00:55:00,719
Speaker 2: For him. And know this has nothing to do.

985
00:55:00,760 --> 00:55:03,000
Speaker 4: With your question, but no, this is all good stuff.

986
00:55:03,000 --> 00:55:05,359
Speaker 3: And I was just thinking about how it's almost as

987
00:55:05,440 --> 00:55:07,640
Speaker 3: if he has to break us first. He has completely

988
00:55:07,760 --> 00:55:11,200
Speaker 3: just demolish us, to get us outside of ourselves in

989
00:55:11,320 --> 00:55:13,320
Speaker 3: order to, like you said, put us back together again.

990
00:55:13,840 --> 00:55:16,839
Speaker 3: We're crucified with Christ, but then we're raised to e

991
00:55:16,880 --> 00:55:20,919
Speaker 3: turn alive with him. So it's infinitely more rewarding that way.

992
00:55:21,080 --> 00:55:24,160
Speaker 3: And you know, you talked about how now we've seen

993
00:55:24,200 --> 00:55:27,120
Speaker 3: culture largely without genesis, but has there ever been a

994
00:55:27,160 --> 00:55:29,240
Speaker 3: point or do you think we're even reaching that point

995
00:55:29,280 --> 00:55:32,280
Speaker 3: of culture completely without genesis?

996
00:55:32,520 --> 00:55:38,280
Speaker 5: You know, I did some research looking at Nazi Germany

997
00:55:39,400 --> 00:55:43,520
Speaker 5: rejecting genesis and it was a godless way to run

998
00:55:43,520 --> 00:55:49,319
Speaker 5: a government. Did some research into communism, and and of

999
00:55:49,320 --> 00:55:50,560
Speaker 5: course today we still.

1000
00:55:50,400 --> 00:55:54,080
Speaker 2: Have China as a communist nation, and they.

1001
00:55:54,000 --> 00:56:00,359
Speaker 5: Have of course the worst, the worst track record on ecology,

1002
00:56:00,600 --> 00:56:02,920
Speaker 5: not taking care of the environment, and the worst trackered

1003
00:56:02,960 --> 00:56:08,759
Speaker 5: record or one of the worst anyways on human life.

1004
00:56:09,120 --> 00:56:12,279
Speaker 5: Such a low value of human life. But I mean,

1005
00:56:13,680 --> 00:56:16,359
Speaker 5: doesn't that make sense if if you're going to say

1006
00:56:16,400 --> 00:56:20,520
Speaker 5: that Genesis is a joke, that humans evolve from apes,

1007
00:56:20,560 --> 00:56:25,759
Speaker 5: then then you know what's the problem with a bunch

1008
00:56:25,840 --> 00:56:28,560
Speaker 5: of If we have too many people, it's like having

1009
00:56:28,560 --> 00:56:29,600
Speaker 5: too many cats.

1010
00:56:29,719 --> 00:56:30,839
Speaker 2: Just get rid of a bunch of them.

1011
00:56:31,160 --> 00:56:33,480
Speaker 4: They're in the way the lis their.

1012
00:56:33,480 --> 00:56:35,640
Speaker 5: Value, because our value comes from being made in the

1013
00:56:35,680 --> 00:56:37,960
Speaker 5: image of God. And if we reject that, then we

1014
00:56:38,120 --> 00:56:40,680
Speaker 5: don't have a view that that that aligns with the

1015
00:56:40,760 --> 00:56:45,319
Speaker 5: reality of our made in His image, of our little

1016
00:56:45,320 --> 00:56:49,719
Speaker 5: images that we are as we walk around on this clod. Yeah,

1017
00:56:50,160 --> 00:56:52,240
Speaker 5: and so it's it's so we have.

1018
00:56:52,200 --> 00:56:53,279
Speaker 2: You know, some of these.

1019
00:56:54,520 --> 00:56:58,560
Speaker 5: These holocausts and wars and and everything, and and a

1020
00:56:58,560 --> 00:57:02,200
Speaker 5: lot of them are tied to to a rejection of

1021
00:57:02,200 --> 00:57:05,759
Speaker 5: Genesis in different cultures. But then you see some cultures flourish,

1022
00:57:06,040 --> 00:57:10,200
Speaker 5: and I defy my listeners or my readers to name

1023
00:57:10,280 --> 00:57:14,759
Speaker 5: and describe a culture, modern or ancient that has flourished

1024
00:57:15,120 --> 00:57:22,840
Speaker 5: where people have, you know, built strong economies, built strong families,

1025
00:57:24,800 --> 00:57:29,040
Speaker 5: enjoyed times of lasting peace, built strong, strong government where

1026
00:57:29,040 --> 00:57:36,240
Speaker 5: there's justice, actually just justice. Name a time of Name

1027
00:57:36,280 --> 00:57:39,560
Speaker 5: a culture that's flourished in those areas and has had

1028
00:57:39,600 --> 00:57:42,760
Speaker 5: a low view of Genesis, just completely disdains Genesis. I

1029
00:57:42,760 --> 00:57:45,080
Speaker 5: don't I couldn't find any you know, So I think

1030
00:57:45,120 --> 00:57:48,640
Speaker 5: there's a link. I think there's a connection. And so

1031
00:57:49,000 --> 00:57:51,920
Speaker 5: I guess the best possible outcome from my book is

1032
00:57:51,920 --> 00:57:53,840
Speaker 5: that people would read it and go, oh, we need

1033
00:57:53,840 --> 00:57:55,800
Speaker 5: to get back to Genesis. Then they'd read the Bible,

1034
00:57:56,000 --> 00:57:59,200
Speaker 5: and then they believe in Jesus, who the Bible is

1035
00:57:59,200 --> 00:58:02,200
Speaker 5: all about, and then we we'd have a you know,

1036
00:58:02,360 --> 00:58:05,800
Speaker 5: more and more people who who make up culture, because

1037
00:58:05,840 --> 00:58:08,560
Speaker 5: culture is made of people who actually get back to

1038
00:58:08,960 --> 00:58:12,800
Speaker 5: the beginnings, back back to the truth, and back to

1039
00:58:13,520 --> 00:58:17,360
Speaker 5: running government in a way that's for the people, not

1040
00:58:17,400 --> 00:58:20,360
Speaker 5: for the people, and not for the leaders only.

1041
00:58:20,680 --> 00:58:21,160
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1042
00:58:21,280 --> 00:58:23,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's almost as if, you know, Scripture contains all

1043
00:58:23,920 --> 00:58:26,360
Speaker 3: things for life and godliness. You know, who would have

1044
00:58:26,360 --> 00:58:26,720
Speaker 3: thought that?

1045
00:58:26,880 --> 00:58:27,080
Speaker 2: Really?

1046
00:58:28,400 --> 00:58:32,000
Speaker 3: I know, you know it should be if it is so?

1047
00:58:32,200 --> 00:58:35,680
Speaker 3: With that, what does the rest of Scripture say about Genesis?

1048
00:58:35,720 --> 00:58:37,360
Speaker 3: I know we've touched on this just a bit, but

1049
00:58:37,960 --> 00:58:40,040
Speaker 3: what did what did Jesus Let's start with Jesus. What

1050
00:58:40,080 --> 00:58:41,640
Speaker 3: did Jesus think of Genesis?

1051
00:58:42,560 --> 00:58:43,919
Speaker 2: Uh? Well, I'll just.

1052
00:58:45,320 --> 00:58:51,640
Speaker 5: I did a survey in the book the names Noah,

1053
00:58:51,840 --> 00:58:54,040
Speaker 5: these are some of the ideas that I had. Where

1054
00:58:54,040 --> 00:58:57,080
Speaker 5: else does the Bible you you know, reference Noah or Adam?

1055
00:58:57,360 --> 00:59:01,439
Speaker 5: You know, these these names that come from the first

1056
00:59:01,480 --> 00:59:04,840
Speaker 5: eleven chapters of Genesis that we all, so many of

1057
00:59:04,920 --> 00:59:07,600
Speaker 5: us like to shove to just don't even read those

1058
00:59:07,800 --> 00:59:11,960
Speaker 5: those are myths. We mythologize them. Well, if they're myths,

1059
00:59:12,040 --> 00:59:19,160
Speaker 5: and why did the prophets refer to them as actual people, Isaiah, Sorrymiah.

1060
00:59:19,360 --> 00:59:21,600
Speaker 5: If they're myths, why did Jesus refer to them as

1061
00:59:21,680 --> 00:59:26,600
Speaker 5: actual people as it was in the days of Noah?

1062
00:59:26,760 --> 00:59:28,240
Speaker 5: So shall it be in the coming of the Son

1063
00:59:28,240 --> 00:59:30,840
Speaker 5: of Man? I think it's Matthew twenty four. He's referring

1064
00:59:30,840 --> 00:59:35,560
Speaker 5: to these as real people. Luke three. You know Adam,

1065
00:59:35,680 --> 00:59:39,680
Speaker 5: the son of God named naming Adam as the as

1066
00:59:39,760 --> 00:59:44,800
Speaker 5: the you know, as the Patriot or the father of

1067
00:59:45,200 --> 00:59:50,720
Speaker 5: the Lord Jesus himself through Mary So. And then if

1068
00:59:51,040 --> 00:59:56,000
Speaker 5: if these are myths, then why does Paul say through

1069
00:59:56,080 --> 00:59:58,640
Speaker 5: the first atom Sin entered the world, but through the

1070
00:59:58,720 --> 01:00:01,880
Speaker 5: last atom we have, you know, life to the last atom.

1071
01:00:02,480 --> 01:00:05,720
Speaker 5: So if there was no first atom, then what are

1072
01:00:05,760 --> 01:00:07,720
Speaker 5: we gonna do? Erase this the last atom, which is

1073
01:00:07,760 --> 01:00:10,720
Speaker 5: of course the Lord Jesus. So if Jesus is real,

1074
01:00:10,920 --> 01:00:13,840
Speaker 5: then according to Paul, so is Adam because atom is

1075
01:00:13,840 --> 01:00:14,600
Speaker 5: the first atom.

1076
01:00:14,440 --> 01:00:15,440
Speaker 2: Jesus is the last atom.

1077
01:00:17,600 --> 01:00:21,000
Speaker 5: And so so you know, there's there's a I used

1078
01:00:21,000 --> 01:00:25,080
Speaker 5: to I was backpacking some years ago and I got

1079
01:00:25,120 --> 01:00:28,280
Speaker 5: into a conversation with a stranger on the trail, and

1080
01:00:28,680 --> 01:00:29,800
Speaker 5: you know, what do you do for a living? This

1081
01:00:29,840 --> 01:00:31,320
Speaker 5: is the question that comes up while I work at

1082
01:00:31,360 --> 01:00:34,440
Speaker 5: the Institute for Creation Research. Really, what's that, do you guys?

1083
01:00:34,480 --> 01:00:36,960
Speaker 5: Breed sheep, No, that's not not that kind of creation.

1084
01:00:38,440 --> 01:00:41,800
Speaker 5: Let me introduce you. So, yeah, we believe genesis and

1085
01:00:41,880 --> 01:00:44,320
Speaker 5: science supports it. Oh really, I had no idea that

1086
01:00:44,400 --> 01:00:48,280
Speaker 5: any science supported Genesis. And he's like, well doesn't doesn't

1087
01:00:48,320 --> 01:00:51,640
Speaker 5: Genesis not not even matter because the Gospel is the

1088
01:00:51,760 --> 01:00:54,320
Speaker 5: real important thing. This is what he's telling me. And

1089
01:00:54,360 --> 01:00:56,920
Speaker 5: I said, well, can you think of any doctrine that

1090
01:00:57,840 --> 01:01:01,080
Speaker 5: doesn't have its origins in Genesis? Any doctrine?

1091
01:01:01,120 --> 01:01:01,520
Speaker 2: Pick one?

1092
01:01:01,680 --> 01:01:05,960
Speaker 5: And he goes, what's a doctrine? Look, do you mean

1093
01:01:06,000 --> 01:01:09,280
Speaker 5: like baptism? No, that's an ordinance. So the doctor, the

1094
01:01:09,320 --> 01:01:11,280
Speaker 5: doctrine of God, who is God? The doctor of man,

1095
01:01:11,320 --> 01:01:17,000
Speaker 5: who is man? Doctrine of you name it? And yeah,

1096
01:01:17,000 --> 01:01:19,920
Speaker 5: they all, how about this, the doctrine of clothing. We

1097
01:01:19,920 --> 01:01:24,400
Speaker 5: wear clothes, animals don't. That's because we have sin, and

1098
01:01:24,440 --> 01:01:27,120
Speaker 5: the Bible gives us the origin for that. And everything.

1099
01:01:27,400 --> 01:01:30,919
Speaker 5: We have languages, No animal has one. We have lots

1100
01:01:30,920 --> 01:01:34,560
Speaker 5: of them. Tower of Bible, Genesis eleven. The Bible gives

1101
01:01:34,560 --> 01:01:36,600
Speaker 5: the origin of that. Yeah, And so I'm talking with

1102
01:01:36,640 --> 01:01:38,560
Speaker 5: this guy, and he and he's and he turns and

1103
01:01:38,680 --> 01:01:44,560
Speaker 5: he stops, turns around and says, I'm a New Testament Christian.

1104
01:01:45,360 --> 01:01:47,160
Speaker 2: That's what he said to me. I'm a New Testament Christian.

1105
01:01:47,480 --> 01:01:49,560
Speaker 5: In other words, I'm not gonna mess with trying to

1106
01:01:50,000 --> 01:01:52,880
Speaker 5: work through the whithertos and why wars of Genesis. I'm

1107
01:01:52,880 --> 01:01:56,600
Speaker 5: just gonna believe in super simple faith of just Jesus

1108
01:01:56,680 --> 01:01:57,200
Speaker 5: and that's it.

1109
01:01:57,800 --> 01:02:00,680
Speaker 2: And and so I.

1110
01:02:00,520 --> 01:02:02,960
Speaker 5: You know, at that point, you just let a person,

1111
01:02:03,640 --> 01:02:06,840
Speaker 5: you know, go their own way. But I would if

1112
01:02:06,840 --> 01:02:09,160
Speaker 5: he was asking me, you know, I would say, if

1113
01:02:09,480 --> 01:02:12,440
Speaker 5: you're just going to be a New Testament Christian, first.

1114
01:02:12,280 --> 01:02:16,200
Speaker 2: Of all, what does that mean to you? But if

1115
01:02:16,200 --> 01:02:18,640
Speaker 2: you're going to be a devoted.

1116
01:02:18,160 --> 01:02:20,520
Speaker 5: New Testament Christian, then you're going to devote yourself to

1117
01:02:20,560 --> 01:02:22,560
Speaker 5: the New Testament. And that means you're going to devote

1118
01:02:22,600 --> 01:02:27,920
Speaker 5: yourself to what the prophets and apostles said. Also, because

1119
01:02:28,600 --> 01:02:31,840
Speaker 5: that's what the New Testament authors said. They did, Yeah,

1120
01:02:31,880 --> 01:02:34,680
Speaker 5: and that's what they said. Acts twenty four fourteen is

1121
01:02:34,720 --> 01:02:38,680
Speaker 5: a good verse. Everyone looking up where Paul is arguing

1122
01:02:38,720 --> 01:02:42,880
Speaker 5: and he's saying in front of I think it's Agrippa

1123
01:02:43,160 --> 01:02:46,080
Speaker 5: and the Jews are out to get him, you know.

1124
01:02:46,480 --> 01:02:49,640
Speaker 5: And then he's saying, I am being persecuted by these

1125
01:02:49,720 --> 01:02:54,640
Speaker 5: Jews because I believe everything that's written in the prophets,

1126
01:02:55,600 --> 01:02:58,880
Speaker 5: the prophets, and so he's talking.

1127
01:02:58,640 --> 01:03:02,200
Speaker 2: About the whole Bible, the Old Testament included.

1128
01:03:02,760 --> 01:03:07,640
Speaker 5: And so when Jesus came on the scene, he was

1129
01:03:07,680 --> 01:03:12,640
Speaker 5: the fulfillment of Old Testament prophecies, the first one being

1130
01:03:12,720 --> 01:03:17,040
Speaker 5: the being pretty vague, but being Genesis chapter three. Genesis

1131
01:03:17,040 --> 01:03:20,439
Speaker 5: three is the curse. And God said, curses the ground

1132
01:03:20,480 --> 01:03:25,640
Speaker 5: for your sake. And he said to the he said

1133
01:03:25,640 --> 01:03:29,200
Speaker 5: to the serpent, you know on your belly you shall

1134
01:03:29,240 --> 01:03:31,680
Speaker 5: go all the days of your life. You know this abasement.

1135
01:03:32,000 --> 01:03:36,880
Speaker 5: And then then comes this prophecy. The seed of the

1136
01:03:36,920 --> 01:03:39,960
Speaker 5: Woman is going to crush your head, buck wheat, he said,

1137
01:03:40,000 --> 01:03:43,720
Speaker 5: that's my translation. Listen here, buck wheat. The sea of the

1138
01:03:43,680 --> 01:03:46,160
Speaker 5: woman it's going to crush. So Eve is going to

1139
01:03:46,240 --> 01:03:48,720
Speaker 5: have She's the woman, the only woman that existed, is

1140
01:03:48,760 --> 01:03:51,000
Speaker 5: going to have a seed or an offspring, and that

1141
01:03:51,120 --> 01:03:55,000
Speaker 5: child is going to is going to be your downfall.

1142
01:03:56,000 --> 01:03:58,640
Speaker 5: And we've been waiting ever since for Jesus to come

1143
01:03:58,800 --> 01:04:03,280
Speaker 5: and crush the world and the world system, and he's

1144
01:04:03,320 --> 01:04:10,040
Speaker 5: going to do it and so, and the end cap

1145
01:04:10,080 --> 01:04:11,920
Speaker 5: of the Bible. So if the book ends of the

1146
01:04:11,920 --> 01:04:14,880
Speaker 5: Bible Genesis, the other the other book and would be Revelation.

1147
01:04:15,200 --> 01:04:17,800
Speaker 5: The end cap tells us how he's going to do

1148
01:04:17,840 --> 01:04:19,920
Speaker 5: that and some of the special events that are going

1149
01:04:19,960 --> 01:04:25,200
Speaker 5: to happen when he actually comes to bring justice and

1150
01:04:25,280 --> 01:04:28,760
Speaker 5: to crush the head of the serpent, which is not

1151
01:04:28,840 --> 01:04:33,560
Speaker 5: a snake in my opinion, and so and so if

1152
01:04:33,800 --> 01:04:37,120
Speaker 5: we're going to say, if we're going to say I

1153
01:04:37,160 --> 01:04:40,160
Speaker 5: believe the Bible, then might as well believe all of

1154
01:04:40,200 --> 01:04:45,040
Speaker 5: it because it all pins itself together. It's all the

1155
01:04:45,160 --> 01:04:48,320
Speaker 5: narratives are interwoven from the Old into the New Testament.

1156
01:04:48,880 --> 01:04:52,920
Speaker 5: The themes that are draw that are begun in the

1157
01:04:52,920 --> 01:04:55,840
Speaker 5: Old Testament are picked up and carried later on in

1158
01:04:55,880 --> 01:04:58,600
Speaker 5: the Old Testament and then into the New Testament.

1159
01:04:58,640 --> 01:05:00,360
Speaker 2: All these themes. It's just beautiful, full to.

1160
01:05:00,320 --> 01:05:03,520
Speaker 5: Study and wonderful to know and have confidence that we

1161
01:05:03,520 --> 01:05:04,400
Speaker 5: can believe all of it.

1162
01:05:04,800 --> 01:05:06,240
Speaker 4: Yeah. Absolutely.

1163
01:05:06,320 --> 01:05:09,640
Speaker 3: And you know, if Jesus had a high view of Genesis,

1164
01:05:09,680 --> 01:05:13,440
Speaker 3: if the apostles thought Genesis was real literal history, how

1165
01:05:13,440 --> 01:05:17,000
Speaker 3: would that transform our lives? If we had Genesis as

1166
01:05:17,000 --> 01:05:19,720
Speaker 3: the foundation. If we took Genesis at.

1167
01:05:19,640 --> 01:05:22,440
Speaker 5: Its word, well, wouldn't we get a high view of

1168
01:05:22,520 --> 01:05:25,520
Speaker 5: man from it? And we'd say, Oh, we're made in

1169
01:05:25,520 --> 01:05:28,919
Speaker 5: God's image according to this text, maybe I should love

1170
01:05:28,960 --> 01:05:32,320
Speaker 5: my neighbor, respect my neighbor. Maybe I should think fewer

1171
01:05:32,360 --> 01:05:38,520
Speaker 5: thoughts of murder, you know, in traffic or something. What

1172
01:05:38,640 --> 01:05:41,400
Speaker 5: else would happen? I mean, you just name it the

1173
01:05:41,640 --> 01:05:45,439
Speaker 5: justice system. Oh that God made everything, He made me. Well,

1174
01:05:45,440 --> 01:05:47,880
Speaker 5: that means I'm going to be accountable to him. So

1175
01:05:48,080 --> 01:05:52,400
Speaker 5: as a judge, I better make right decisions and not

1176
01:05:52,560 --> 01:05:56,400
Speaker 5: legislate from my judicial bench because that's the other department's job.

1177
01:05:57,440 --> 01:05:59,440
Speaker 5: Because I'm going to have to be accountable. And I'm

1178
01:05:59,440 --> 01:06:01,120
Speaker 5: going to give an a count to God for what

1179
01:06:01,200 --> 01:06:02,680
Speaker 5: I did and what I said.

1180
01:06:02,560 --> 01:06:03,400
Speaker 2: In this earth.

1181
01:06:04,320 --> 01:06:08,200
Speaker 5: I mean, that makes all the difference, right, And then

1182
01:06:08,240 --> 01:06:10,200
Speaker 5: I read in Genesis, Oh what about grace?

1183
01:06:10,320 --> 01:06:12,480
Speaker 2: Noah found grace in the eyes of God. What does

1184
01:06:12,520 --> 01:06:12,880
Speaker 2: that mean?

1185
01:06:14,160 --> 01:06:19,000
Speaker 5: Undeserved favor? You know, undeserved favor? Do I need that too?

1186
01:06:19,840 --> 01:06:22,160
Speaker 2: Yeah? Every day, every moment.

1187
01:06:22,240 --> 01:06:23,960
Speaker 5: And what would it look like in our lives if

1188
01:06:23,960 --> 01:06:29,640
Speaker 5: we relied on him and trusted in him. That undeserved favor, that.

1189
01:06:29,560 --> 01:06:30,640
Speaker 2: Grace to.

1190
01:06:32,320 --> 01:06:35,840
Speaker 5: Do what to do, whatever he made us to do,

1191
01:06:36,680 --> 01:06:38,439
Speaker 5: not to go run around and do what I want

1192
01:06:38,480 --> 01:06:41,000
Speaker 5: to do and wreck my life and wreck everyone else's

1193
01:06:41,080 --> 01:06:43,000
Speaker 5: lives that I come in contact with.

1194
01:06:44,840 --> 01:06:46,200
Speaker 2: That's what the flesh wants to do.

1195
01:06:46,640 --> 01:06:49,440
Speaker 5: But when I get back to Genesis, I realize, Okay,

1196
01:06:49,560 --> 01:06:52,440
Speaker 5: I'm accountable to a god, and he's a god of grace.

1197
01:06:52,600 --> 01:06:53,800
Speaker 2: He's a god who's pursuing me.

1198
01:06:53,840 --> 01:06:57,320
Speaker 5: He's a god of love and mercy, and just as

1199
01:06:57,360 --> 01:07:00,360
Speaker 5: he was gracious with Noah, maybe I can find grace

1200
01:07:01,000 --> 01:07:03,680
Speaker 5: from this divine judge so he won't have to come

1201
01:07:03,720 --> 01:07:06,120
Speaker 5: down on me on judgment Day. He'll actually lift me

1202
01:07:06,200 --> 01:07:09,080
Speaker 5: up and say, because you trusted me, I took care

1203
01:07:09,120 --> 01:07:11,240
Speaker 5: of your sins, I'm going to take care of everything.

1204
01:07:12,080 --> 01:07:15,560
Speaker 5: And He is the great taker care of all the things,

1205
01:07:16,000 --> 01:07:19,240
Speaker 5: and we learn about that through Genesis. So I mean,

1206
01:07:20,040 --> 01:07:21,800
Speaker 5: what would if you're asking me what would change if

1207
01:07:21,800 --> 01:07:24,920
Speaker 5: we went back to Genesis? My question is what wouldn't

1208
01:07:25,440 --> 01:07:28,320
Speaker 5: Every aspect of our lives would change, And certainly those

1209
01:07:28,360 --> 01:07:30,160
Speaker 5: aspects of my life have changed.

1210
01:07:30,160 --> 01:07:31,600
Speaker 2: You know, I used to believe.

1211
01:07:33,120 --> 01:07:36,880
Speaker 5: I used to be a My friends used to call

1212
01:07:36,960 --> 01:07:40,600
Speaker 5: me a recovering eco wacko. So I know we don't

1213
01:07:40,600 --> 01:07:43,200
Speaker 5: call people name, but I mean I was a tree

1214
01:07:43,280 --> 01:07:48,840
Speaker 5: hugging type of person and so and a vegetarian. You know,

1215
01:07:48,960 --> 01:07:51,680
Speaker 5: I don't harm animals because I thought animals are more

1216
01:07:51,720 --> 01:07:53,880
Speaker 5: important than people. People are the problems. So if we

1217
01:07:53,880 --> 01:07:55,360
Speaker 5: get rid of the people, that would be great. That's

1218
01:07:55,360 --> 01:07:58,280
Speaker 5: what I used to believe. I don't believe that anymore.

1219
01:07:58,840 --> 01:08:04,440
Speaker 2: Why don't I because of Genesis. I used to believe

1220
01:08:04,520 --> 01:08:05,680
Speaker 2: marriage was silly.

1221
01:08:06,200 --> 01:08:09,480
Speaker 5: Marriage was a joke because so many of them fail,

1222
01:08:09,720 --> 01:08:13,280
Speaker 5: So why even start an enterprise that would fail? Where's

1223
01:08:13,320 --> 01:08:16,320
Speaker 5: the first marriage come from? Genesis?

1224
01:08:16,720 --> 01:08:18,479
Speaker 2: And so as soon as I got back to Genesis

1225
01:08:18,720 --> 01:08:23,800
Speaker 2: and I realized, oh, God invented marriage. Interesting, I didn't

1226
01:08:23,800 --> 01:08:26,240
Speaker 2: know that. So the reason that marriages fail isn't because

1227
01:08:26,240 --> 01:08:30,000
Speaker 2: it's inherently problematic, is because we do such a bad

1228
01:08:30,120 --> 01:08:34,600
Speaker 2: job with what God has done with this institution that

1229
01:08:34,600 --> 01:08:38,840
Speaker 2: God has begun. So guess what happened Immediately after God

1230
01:08:38,960 --> 01:08:43,479
Speaker 2: changed my mind on marriage. I found a lady and

1231
01:08:43,960 --> 01:08:47,360
Speaker 2: we've been married for but almost thirty years now. You know,

1232
01:08:47,600 --> 01:08:53,120
Speaker 2: so every aspect of life changes, personal, societal, spiritual, you

1233
01:08:53,200 --> 01:08:56,479
Speaker 2: name it. Wow, Yeah, with our foundation in Genesis.

1234
01:08:56,520 --> 01:08:59,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, And I love that example to U's

1235
01:08:59,720 --> 01:09:02,120
Speaker 3: early or of Noah and just how he's a type

1236
01:09:02,120 --> 01:09:05,080
Speaker 3: of Christ in that there's judgment and we all deserve it,

1237
01:09:05,160 --> 01:09:05,679
Speaker 3: and yet.

1238
01:09:05,640 --> 01:09:07,280
Speaker 4: There's grace for all who.

1239
01:09:07,280 --> 01:09:09,400
Speaker 2: Just put their trust in Jesus anyone.

1240
01:09:09,560 --> 01:09:12,439
Speaker 5: Yeah, and yeah, he's just waiting for us to say, Yeah,

1241
01:09:12,439 --> 01:09:15,400
Speaker 5: you're right, God, I'm a sinner. I need your help,

1242
01:09:15,960 --> 01:09:18,840
Speaker 5: I need outside help.

1243
01:09:19,800 --> 01:09:20,120
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1244
01:09:20,160 --> 01:09:20,760
Speaker 4: Absolutely.

1245
01:09:20,840 --> 01:09:23,200
Speaker 3: So, just as we wrap up this conversation today, do

1246
01:09:23,280 --> 01:09:26,400
Speaker 3: you have any closing thoughts anything that we haven't talked

1247
01:09:26,400 --> 01:09:28,200
Speaker 3: about that you'd really like listeners to know.

1248
01:09:30,120 --> 01:09:36,920
Speaker 2: If you purchase my book, she should. What's the cost now.

1249
01:09:38,600 --> 01:09:42,200
Speaker 5: For nineteen ninety nine the bottom of your screen, two

1250
01:09:42,240 --> 01:09:43,200
Speaker 5: for the price of one.

1251
01:09:43,479 --> 01:09:45,240
Speaker 2: No, it does come with free cello fane though, if

1252
01:09:45,240 --> 01:09:46,439
Speaker 2: you order it. That's nice.

1253
01:09:47,400 --> 01:09:47,759
Speaker 3: Plus.

1254
01:09:47,840 --> 01:09:49,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, So let's let's wrap up.

1255
01:09:49,720 --> 01:09:55,840
Speaker 5: With a with a a summary of what's what's in

1256
01:09:55,880 --> 01:09:59,880
Speaker 5: my heart on this is now you've heard the transformation

1257
01:10:00,080 --> 01:10:02,479
Speaker 5: that the Lord has made, and it wasn't just an

1258
01:10:02,520 --> 01:10:07,719
Speaker 5: academic realization that Okay, now Genesis is true. We realize

1259
01:10:07,720 --> 01:10:09,920
Speaker 5: this in an academic sense, and now I can replace.

1260
01:10:09,600 --> 01:10:12,000
Speaker 2: The old thoughts with the new ones. Well that's part

1261
01:10:12,040 --> 01:10:12,240
Speaker 2: of it.

1262
01:10:12,240 --> 01:10:15,559
Speaker 5: It's part the academic But when I found that the

1263
01:10:15,600 --> 01:10:19,639
Speaker 5: words could be trusted, that transformed my whole view of God.

1264
01:10:19,720 --> 01:10:21,040
Speaker 5: You know, I used to believe that God was like

1265
01:10:21,080 --> 01:10:22,840
Speaker 5: a little bit stronger than the devil than if they

1266
01:10:22,880 --> 01:10:24,960
Speaker 5: had to duke it out. You know, God would take

1267
01:10:25,000 --> 01:10:26,760
Speaker 5: some blows, but give a little more than he took.

1268
01:10:28,479 --> 01:10:29,560
Speaker 3: What a dinky.

1269
01:10:29,240 --> 01:10:31,320
Speaker 4: God in a comic book.

1270
01:10:31,640 --> 01:10:35,080
Speaker 5: Yes, yeah, it's so silly. And now I realize this

1271
01:10:35,160 --> 01:10:37,240
Speaker 5: is the God of the universe. Who, you know, if

1272
01:10:37,240 --> 01:10:38,880
Speaker 5: he got in a fight with the devil, who could

1273
01:10:38,920 --> 01:10:42,639
Speaker 5: just you know, not even have to blink and say,

1274
01:10:42,640 --> 01:10:44,280
Speaker 5: I don't think you should exist anymore? And he would

1275
01:10:44,360 --> 01:10:48,479
Speaker 5: not exist at that point. You know, this is the

1276
01:10:48,520 --> 01:10:50,760
Speaker 5: God who spoke the universe into existence.

1277
01:10:51,320 --> 01:10:52,040
Speaker 2: And when.

1278
01:10:53,400 --> 01:10:59,360
Speaker 5: When the when the Gospel entered my heart, the he

1279
01:11:00,040 --> 01:11:04,280
Speaker 5: in a similar way that he brought light out of

1280
01:11:04,360 --> 01:11:09,639
Speaker 5: darkness in the beginning, he brought life out of.

1281
01:11:09,560 --> 01:11:10,320
Speaker 2: Death in me.

1282
01:11:11,520 --> 01:11:15,960
Speaker 5: And so now that I know that, now that I

1283
01:11:16,040 --> 01:11:18,519
Speaker 5: know I knew him in that way as my savior,

1284
01:11:18,720 --> 01:11:21,840
Speaker 5: but now that I can trust him, you know, now

1285
01:11:21,840 --> 01:11:24,599
Speaker 5: that I can trust the words that he wrote, even

1286
01:11:24,640 --> 01:11:27,400
Speaker 5: the words in genesis that sound weird to secular ears

1287
01:11:27,960 --> 01:11:31,439
Speaker 5: like mine were and still are, probably to some degree.

1288
01:11:31,720 --> 01:11:35,240
Speaker 5: But now I can say, oh, you love me enough,

1289
01:11:35,360 --> 01:11:37,720
Speaker 5: not just to die for me and to pay my

1290
01:11:37,800 --> 01:11:40,880
Speaker 5: price and rescue me from my sins, but also to

1291
01:11:40,880 --> 01:11:43,960
Speaker 5: tell me the truth about where I came from. You're

1292
01:11:44,000 --> 01:11:47,080
Speaker 5: pretty awesome, And my view of God has gone through

1293
01:11:47,080 --> 01:11:50,120
Speaker 5: the roof. He's the god of the universe beyond the universe,

1294
01:11:50,439 --> 01:11:54,719
Speaker 5: and he loves little old nobody me and has loved

1295
01:11:54,720 --> 01:11:58,280
Speaker 5: me so much that he preserved this word so we

1296
01:11:58,320 --> 01:12:00,800
Speaker 5: would have a record of how it all really went down.

1297
01:12:01,800 --> 01:12:05,120
Speaker 5: He's preserved it through all the millennia, waiting for me

1298
01:12:05,160 --> 01:12:07,280
Speaker 5: to be born, waiting for me to hear this, waiting

1299
01:12:07,280 --> 01:12:10,479
Speaker 5: for me to believe and trust not just his words

1300
01:12:10,520 --> 01:12:17,240
Speaker 5: and academic sense, but to trust him personally. Okay, I'm

1301
01:12:17,280 --> 01:12:20,360
Speaker 5: a sinner. I'm still a sinner, even though I know you, Lord,

1302
01:12:20,400 --> 01:12:22,839
Speaker 5: and I need to trust you more even now, even today.

1303
01:12:23,320 --> 01:12:24,160
Speaker 2: He's become my.

1304
01:12:24,840 --> 01:12:29,360
Speaker 5: Savior with the get out of Hell for free ticket,

1305
01:12:29,920 --> 01:12:34,120
Speaker 5: but he's also become my savior from my own problems

1306
01:12:34,120 --> 01:12:37,720
Speaker 5: and issues and struggles on a day by day, and

1307
01:12:37,320 --> 01:12:41,200
Speaker 5: he's the one who rescues me all the time, and

1308
01:12:41,400 --> 01:12:43,519
Speaker 5: the confidence that I had now have in him came

1309
01:12:43,560 --> 01:12:46,960
Speaker 5: from being able to trust him and take him at

1310
01:12:47,000 --> 01:12:48,960
Speaker 5: his word even in Genesis.

1311
01:12:50,200 --> 01:12:52,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, gosh, what a great note to end on. I mean,

1312
01:12:52,880 --> 01:12:55,400
Speaker 3: what an incredible God we serve. And I have just

1313
01:12:55,439 --> 01:12:58,240
Speaker 3: been so encouraged by our conversation today. So thank you

1314
01:12:58,320 --> 01:13:00,439
Speaker 3: so much for coming on the podcast, and I know

1315
01:13:00,760 --> 01:13:03,000
Speaker 3: our listeners and viewers have been encouraged as well, So

1316
01:13:03,200 --> 01:13:03,679
Speaker 3: thank you.

1317
01:13:03,680 --> 01:13:06,000
Speaker 2: So much for being here, Thanks for having me. I

1318
01:13:06,040 --> 01:13:06,840
Speaker 2: appreciate it.

1319
01:13:06,720 --> 01:13:09,800
Speaker 3: Absolutely, And to our listeners and viewers, thank you so

1320
01:13:10,000 --> 01:13:13,160
Speaker 3: much for tuning in today. We hope you enjoyed this podcast.

1321
01:13:13,800 --> 01:13:16,160
Speaker 3: If you would like to purchase a copy of doctor

1322
01:13:16,200 --> 01:13:18,840
Speaker 3: Bryan's book, Living in Life of Genesis, which I highly

1323
01:13:19,000 --> 01:13:22,080
Speaker 3: highly recommend you do, you can find it available now

1324
01:13:22,160 --> 01:13:25,599
Speaker 3: on ICR dot org slash store. And we also recommend

1325
01:13:25,640 --> 01:13:28,320
Speaker 3: that you like and subscribe and share this podcast.

1326
01:13:28,560 --> 01:13:29,479
Speaker 4: It really helps us.

1327
01:13:29,360 --> 01:13:31,519
Speaker 3: To get the creation message out there to as many

1328
01:13:31,560 --> 01:13:34,320
Speaker 3: people as possible. And finally, if you would like to

1329
01:13:34,320 --> 01:13:37,880
Speaker 3: receive the Creation Podcast a week early or our monthly

1330
01:13:37,920 --> 01:13:41,200
Speaker 3: podcast Creation dot Live two weeks early, you can find

1331
01:13:41,200 --> 01:13:43,479
Speaker 3: the link in the description to become a member on

1332
01:13:43,520 --> 01:13:46,760
Speaker 3: YouTube or Patreon. Thank you so much for listening and

1333
01:13:46,800 --> 01:13:47,880
Speaker 3: we will see you next time.

1334
01:13:55,400 --> 01:14:02,240
Speaker 6: You like God human, God was severed and through it all,

1335
01:14:02,840 --> 01:14:05,120
Speaker 6: God's promise remain true.

1336
01:14:05,800 --> 01:14:09,760
Speaker 2: Follow me April and I would make a.

1337
01:14:09,800 --> 01:14:18,080
Speaker 3: Great This is the Chosen People. Listen to the Chosen

1338
01:14:18,160 --> 01:14:20,280
Speaker 3: People at the Chosen.

1339
01:14:19,960 --> 01:14:21,280
Speaker 6: People dot com.

1340
01:14:21,400 --> 01:14:33,640
Speaker 3: That's the Chosen People dot com.