1
00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,960
Speaker 1: If you love iPhone, you'll love Apple Card. It's the

2
00:00:03,040 --> 00:00:06,920
Speaker 1: credit card designed for iPhone. It gives you unlimited daily

3
00:00:07,040 --> 00:00:10,000
Speaker 1: cash back that can earn four point four zero percent

4
00:00:10,160 --> 00:00:12,960
Speaker 1: annual percentage yield. When you open a high Yield Savings

5
00:00:13,000 --> 00:00:16,280
Speaker 1: account through Apple Card, apply for Applecard in the wallet

6
00:00:16,280 --> 00:00:19,520
Speaker 1: app subject to credit approval. Savings is available to Apple

7
00:00:19,560 --> 00:00:22,800
Speaker 1: Card owners subject to eligibility. Apple Card and Savings by

8
00:00:22,840 --> 00:00:26,120
Speaker 1: Goldman Sachs Bank USA, Salt Lake City Branch Member FDIC

9
00:00:26,520 --> 00:00:29,280
Speaker 1: terms and more at applecard dot com. When you pop

10
00:00:29,320 --> 00:00:31,240
Speaker 1: a piece of cheese into your mouth, you're probably not

11
00:00:31,360 --> 00:00:34,280
Speaker 1: thinking about the environmental impact. But the people in the

12
00:00:34,360 --> 00:00:37,680
Speaker 1: dairy industry are. That's why they're working hard every day

13
00:00:37,720 --> 00:00:40,760
Speaker 1: to find new ways to reduce waste, conserve natural resources,

14
00:00:40,800 --> 00:00:44,360
Speaker 1: and drive down greenhouse gas emissions. How is US Dairy

15
00:00:44,400 --> 00:00:48,520
Speaker 1: tackling greenhouse gases? Many farms use anaerobic digesters to turn

16
00:00:48,560 --> 00:00:53,080
Speaker 1: the methane from manure into renewable energy that can power farms, towns,

17
00:00:53,120 --> 00:00:57,200
Speaker 1: and electric cars. Visit us dairy dot COM's Last Sustainability

18
00:00:57,280 --> 00:01:00,200
Speaker 1: to learn more.

19
00:01:00,200 --> 00:01:03,440
Speaker 2: And friends and families walking riding on passing the roads

20
00:01:03,440 --> 00:01:05,800
Speaker 2: every day. Remember they're real people with loved ones who

21
00:01:05,840 --> 00:01:06,319
Speaker 2: need them to.

22
00:01:06,240 --> 00:01:07,040
Speaker 1: Get home safely.

23
00:01:07,240 --> 00:01:11,280
Speaker 2: Protect our cyclists and pedestrians because they're people too, Go safely, California.

24
00:01:11,319 --> 00:01:13,560
Speaker 2: From the California Office of Traffic Safety and Caltrans.

25
00:01:13,720 --> 00:01:17,319
Speaker 3: We're just days away from our twenty twenty four iHeart

26
00:01:17,400 --> 00:01:20,280
Speaker 3: Radio Music Festival, presented by Capital One.

27
00:01:20,600 --> 00:01:23,800
Speaker 4: The biggest headliners in live music will be taking over

28
00:01:23,920 --> 00:01:26,080
Speaker 4: to Mobile Arena, Las Vegas.

29
00:01:25,720 --> 00:01:28,360
Speaker 5: Loss some special surprises at moments you are not going

30
00:01:28,440 --> 00:01:33,600
Speaker 5: to want to miss. Stream only on Hulu iHeartRadio Music Festival.

31
00:01:33,200 --> 00:01:37,760
Speaker 3: And listen on iHeartRadio the most anticipated live music events

32
00:01:37,760 --> 00:01:38,360
Speaker 3: of the.

33
00:01:38,840 --> 00:01:42,440
Speaker 6: Year this Friday and Saturday, starting at ten thirty pm Eastern,

34
00:01:42,560 --> 00:01:43,640
Speaker 6: seven thirty Pacific.

35
00:01:52,360 --> 00:01:54,920
Speaker 1: Hey, Orge, you know what still amazes me That.

36
00:01:55,040 --> 00:01:58,480
Speaker 7: They gave too introverts like us a podcast.

37
00:01:59,440 --> 00:02:03,800
Speaker 1: That blue my mind every week, but also rainbows.

38
00:02:04,160 --> 00:02:08,120
Speaker 7: Yes, are awesome, but what about them amazes you? Everything

39
00:02:08,200 --> 00:02:09,040
Speaker 7: is amazing about them.

40
00:02:09,320 --> 00:02:13,239
Speaker 1: They are amazingly beautiful. But I'm amazed that they exist,

41
00:02:13,400 --> 00:02:15,119
Speaker 1: that they happen in the universe.

42
00:02:15,639 --> 00:02:17,760
Speaker 7: You know that there's a science behind them, right, They're

43
00:02:17,800 --> 00:02:18,919
Speaker 7: not just like magical.

44
00:02:19,440 --> 00:02:21,760
Speaker 1: I get that there's science there, but I just think

45
00:02:21,800 --> 00:02:24,200
Speaker 1: it's incredible that we live in the universe where this

46
00:02:24,320 --> 00:02:27,079
Speaker 1: kind of thing actually happens. I mean, if you're read

47
00:02:27,120 --> 00:02:29,440
Speaker 1: about this in a science fiction book, you think it's

48
00:02:29,440 --> 00:02:30,440
Speaker 1: pretty far fetched.

49
00:02:30,520 --> 00:02:32,760
Speaker 7: Well, depends on what kind of science fiction you're reading.

50
00:02:33,400 --> 00:02:34,960
Speaker 7: Does it also involve in unicorns?

51
00:02:35,120 --> 00:02:37,320
Speaker 1: Unicorns? Like a podcast with two introverts?

52
00:02:37,520 --> 00:02:40,280
Speaker 7: Wait, who's the unicorn in this case? Because you can

53
00:02:40,320 --> 00:02:42,480
Speaker 7: only have one. It's in the name unicorn.

54
00:02:42,720 --> 00:02:44,640
Speaker 1: Collectively, we are one unicorn.

55
00:03:00,040 --> 00:03:03,200
Speaker 7: Him Jorham, a cartoonist and the creator of PhD Comics.

56
00:03:03,480 --> 00:03:06,280
Speaker 1: Hi. I'm Daniel. I'm a particle physicist and a professor

57
00:03:06,280 --> 00:03:09,200
Speaker 1: at UC Irvine, and I call DIBs on being the

58
00:03:09,200 --> 00:03:11,120
Speaker 1: front two legs of the unicorn costume.

59
00:03:11,240 --> 00:03:12,560
Speaker 7: Oh good, who's going to be the back end?

60
00:03:13,680 --> 00:03:14,000
Speaker 3: Not me?

61
00:03:14,400 --> 00:03:16,400
Speaker 7: Maybe you can have a guest hostko.

62
00:03:17,000 --> 00:03:18,840
Speaker 1: That's why we have guest hosts exactly.

63
00:03:18,960 --> 00:03:21,600
Speaker 7: But anyways, Welcome to our podcast, Daniel and Jorge Explain

64
00:03:21,720 --> 00:03:24,240
Speaker 7: the Universe, a production of iHeartRadio, the.

65
00:03:24,200 --> 00:03:27,000
Speaker 1: Podcast in which we talk about everything that's out there

66
00:03:27,000 --> 00:03:29,400
Speaker 1: in the universe and try to explain all of it

67
00:03:29,440 --> 00:03:33,800
Speaker 1: to you. We explore the complete spectrum of possible physical phenomena,

68
00:03:33,919 --> 00:03:37,600
Speaker 1: including rainbows. If unicorns were real, we would talk about

69
00:03:37,640 --> 00:03:40,560
Speaker 1: them as well, But we don't shy away from digging

70
00:03:40,640 --> 00:03:44,080
Speaker 1: deep into the fabric of reality, understanding how it all works,

71
00:03:44,080 --> 00:03:47,640
Speaker 1: and trying to explain to you what scientists are thinking about,

72
00:03:47,760 --> 00:03:50,640
Speaker 1: what they are puzzling over, and what ideas they are

73
00:03:50,640 --> 00:03:52,800
Speaker 1: bouncing around their unicorn brains.

74
00:03:53,040 --> 00:03:55,880
Speaker 7: It's right because it is a very colorful universe. Well

75
00:03:55,880 --> 00:03:58,840
Speaker 7: have amazing sites like rainbows, and we like to follow

76
00:03:58,840 --> 00:04:01,360
Speaker 7: that arc of science to see what is at the

77
00:04:01,440 --> 00:04:03,720
Speaker 7: end of it. If there is indeed a big pot

78
00:04:03,760 --> 00:04:07,440
Speaker 7: of gold or some other element. You know, Physicists don't

79
00:04:07,440 --> 00:04:09,200
Speaker 7: really discriminate between elements, do they.

80
00:04:09,320 --> 00:04:11,400
Speaker 1: We don't, But I would like to accept my grant

81
00:04:11,400 --> 00:04:14,120
Speaker 1: funding in pots of gold, if that was possible, you know,

82
00:04:14,200 --> 00:04:15,960
Speaker 1: rather than just like dollars in a bank account.

83
00:04:16,520 --> 00:04:20,520
Speaker 7: Yeah, but then your grant funding is depending on gold

84
00:04:20,560 --> 00:04:21,480
Speaker 7: currency market.

85
00:04:22,680 --> 00:04:25,000
Speaker 1: What is the exchange rate between gold and science?

86
00:04:25,040 --> 00:04:29,280
Speaker 7: Anyway, I don't keep track, but you made me think

87
00:04:29,279 --> 00:04:32,279
Speaker 7: of another question, Daniel. In a multiverse, right, technically, in

88
00:04:32,320 --> 00:04:37,200
Speaker 7: a multiverse, or maybe even in an infinite universe, unicorns

89
00:04:37,440 --> 00:04:41,080
Speaker 7: probably exists, right, I mean, it is possible, so therefore

90
00:04:41,120 --> 00:04:43,760
Speaker 7: it must be true. There must be horses out there

91
00:04:43,800 --> 00:04:46,520
Speaker 7: in the multiverse or in infinite universe with horns in

92
00:04:46,560 --> 00:04:47,160
Speaker 7: their foreheads.

93
00:04:47,200 --> 00:04:50,560
Speaker 1: Probably out there somewhere in the multiverse there are unicorn

94
00:04:50,600 --> 00:04:55,200
Speaker 1: physicists being paid to do their science in pots of gold.

95
00:04:55,440 --> 00:04:58,320
Speaker 1: Maybe even two unicorns on a podcast talking about what

96
00:04:58,360 --> 00:05:01,480
Speaker 1: it would be like if humans we're doing science instead of.

97
00:05:01,400 --> 00:05:04,640
Speaker 7: Them humans were real, Like, maybe humans are the unicorns

98
00:05:04,640 --> 00:05:05,800
Speaker 7: in the unicorn world.

99
00:05:06,800 --> 00:05:10,119
Speaker 1: If you're already unicorns, why would you even think up humans? Right,

100
00:05:10,200 --> 00:05:12,599
Speaker 1: how do you think of something so boring and ugly

101
00:05:12,600 --> 00:05:13,560
Speaker 1: compared to unicorns?

102
00:05:13,600 --> 00:05:16,039
Speaker 7: Or maybe like regular horses are the unicorns for them,

103
00:05:16,160 --> 00:05:18,840
Speaker 7: they're like, can you imagine a horse without a horn?

104
00:05:19,040 --> 00:05:21,280
Speaker 1: Or maybe it's the other direction. Maybe they're imagining two

105
00:05:21,400 --> 00:05:22,880
Speaker 1: horned horses.

106
00:05:22,520 --> 00:05:24,760
Speaker 7: Right, Yeah, that would be like wild to them, that

107
00:05:24,800 --> 00:05:26,400
Speaker 7: would be an imaginary and magic.

108
00:05:27,440 --> 00:05:29,720
Speaker 1: And on this podcast, we do like to use our

109
00:05:29,760 --> 00:05:33,640
Speaker 1: imagination to consider the ways that the universe might be.

110
00:05:34,080 --> 00:05:36,240
Speaker 1: After all, we are trapped on this tiny little rock

111
00:05:36,240 --> 00:05:38,920
Speaker 1: in a little corner of space trying to understand the

112
00:05:39,160 --> 00:05:43,240
Speaker 1: entire cosmos, which requires somehow developing a model for how

113
00:05:43,279 --> 00:05:45,960
Speaker 1: it all works and extrapolating that model out to the

114
00:05:46,080 --> 00:05:49,120
Speaker 1: very far edges of the universe, far forward in time

115
00:05:49,240 --> 00:05:51,839
Speaker 1: and far backwards in time, because we want to do

116
00:05:51,920 --> 00:05:54,960
Speaker 1: more than just tell stories about unicorns and rainbows. We

117
00:05:55,000 --> 00:05:58,360
Speaker 1: want a mathematical story that explains what we see in

118
00:05:58,400 --> 00:06:01,320
Speaker 1: the universe and tells us that has already happened. And

119
00:06:01,360 --> 00:06:02,800
Speaker 1: hopefully why.

120
00:06:02,839 --> 00:06:05,360
Speaker 7: Yeah, because the nature of the universe doesn't just affect

121
00:06:05,360 --> 00:06:08,240
Speaker 7: the cosmos out there in space and other galaxies. It

122
00:06:08,279 --> 00:06:11,200
Speaker 7: affects us here and on Earth in our everyday lives.

123
00:06:11,480 --> 00:06:14,800
Speaker 7: Every time you look up after a nice rainfall and

124
00:06:14,880 --> 00:06:18,040
Speaker 7: see a rainbow, that's physics kind of affecting how you

125
00:06:18,080 --> 00:06:18,719
Speaker 7: see the world.

126
00:06:18,800 --> 00:06:21,440
Speaker 1: And I don't want to talk more about rainbows and unicorns,

127
00:06:21,480 --> 00:06:24,640
Speaker 1: but I do think rainbows are amazing. It's incredible that

128
00:06:24,680 --> 00:06:27,239
Speaker 1: this physical effect happens and it shimmers in the air,

129
00:06:27,400 --> 00:06:30,000
Speaker 1: and it happens so often, and it's so beautiful. It's

130
00:06:30,040 --> 00:06:31,480
Speaker 1: just like, how lucky are we to live in the

131
00:06:31,600 --> 00:06:35,039
Speaker 1: universe where such beauty occurs? Makes me wonder about the

132
00:06:35,040 --> 00:06:38,120
Speaker 1: whole nature of beauty. But that's a whole philosophical rainbow

133
00:06:38,160 --> 00:06:40,880
Speaker 1: that we definitely don't want to walk down today. What

134
00:06:40,920 --> 00:06:43,400
Speaker 1: we do want to wonder about is why the universe

135
00:06:43,440 --> 00:06:46,120
Speaker 1: works this way and what it means about the history

136
00:06:46,120 --> 00:06:48,240
Speaker 1: of the universe. As Frae says, the way the universe

137
00:06:48,240 --> 00:06:50,839
Speaker 1: works affects our daily lives because it tells us about

138
00:06:50,839 --> 00:06:54,120
Speaker 1: the context of our lives. It tells us how the

139
00:06:54,200 --> 00:06:56,279
Speaker 1: universe came to be and what it means that we

140
00:06:56,360 --> 00:06:56,880
Speaker 1: are here.

141
00:06:57,240 --> 00:07:00,240
Speaker 7: Yeah, and the history of humanity has been about making

142
00:07:00,520 --> 00:07:03,240
Speaker 7: theories that hopefully explain what's going on and gives us

143
00:07:03,240 --> 00:07:06,640
Speaker 7: an understanding about why things are the way they are

144
00:07:06,680 --> 00:07:09,560
Speaker 7: and how we can maybe affect them or change them,

145
00:07:09,960 --> 00:07:13,320
Speaker 7: or at least dream up of fantastical things.

146
00:07:13,560 --> 00:07:15,520
Speaker 1: And while we've made a lot of progress and understanding

147
00:07:15,560 --> 00:07:17,880
Speaker 1: the nature of the universe and its history, how it

148
00:07:17,960 --> 00:07:20,320
Speaker 1: got to look the way that it is, and wondering

149
00:07:20,360 --> 00:07:22,679
Speaker 1: about how it started, or at least the very first

150
00:07:22,680 --> 00:07:24,720
Speaker 1: few moments of it, there are still a lot of

151
00:07:24,840 --> 00:07:28,200
Speaker 1: question marks there about what happened early on, a lot

152
00:07:28,200 --> 00:07:30,520
Speaker 1: of things about our theories that don't quite make sense,

153
00:07:30,840 --> 00:07:33,680
Speaker 1: leaving lots of room for creative people to imagine all

154
00:07:33,720 --> 00:07:37,440
Speaker 1: sorts of theoretical rainbows and unicorns to fill in the gap.

155
00:07:37,520 --> 00:07:39,640
Speaker 7: I thought you didn't want to talk about rainbows anymore, Daniel,

156
00:07:40,480 --> 00:07:41,280
Speaker 7: keep bringing it up.

157
00:07:41,440 --> 00:07:44,320
Speaker 1: Not literal rainbows, these are figurative rainbows now.

158
00:07:44,640 --> 00:07:47,120
Speaker 7: But the arc of history is an interesting one, but

159
00:07:47,160 --> 00:07:49,840
Speaker 7: it's not a necessarily straight line. Sometimes we come up

160
00:07:49,840 --> 00:07:52,360
Speaker 7: with theories that explain what we can see and what

161
00:07:52,400 --> 00:07:55,080
Speaker 7: we can experiment with out there, but then later they

162
00:07:55,080 --> 00:07:57,360
Speaker 7: turn out to be wrong, and that's okay because that's

163
00:07:57,400 --> 00:07:59,240
Speaker 7: part of science and it's an evolving process.

164
00:07:59,320 --> 00:08:02,760
Speaker 1: It's a really interesting distinction, for example, between math and science,

165
00:08:03,160 --> 00:08:05,320
Speaker 1: Like the science that we had two hundred years ago

166
00:08:05,560 --> 00:08:07,440
Speaker 1: is now evolved to the science we have today, and

167
00:08:07,480 --> 00:08:10,040
Speaker 1: we expect in the future we will have even crisper

168
00:08:10,080 --> 00:08:12,960
Speaker 1: ideas of how the universe works. But mathematical proofs that

169
00:08:13,000 --> 00:08:15,560
Speaker 1: were developed thousands of years ago, those are still correct,

170
00:08:15,640 --> 00:08:17,760
Speaker 1: and we expect those to still be correct in a

171
00:08:17,800 --> 00:08:21,320
Speaker 1: few thousand years. So it's fascinating how science and math

172
00:08:21,400 --> 00:08:24,720
Speaker 1: develop sort of differently, even though science is built on math.

173
00:08:25,160 --> 00:08:27,960
Speaker 7: Yeah, and so we have theories that currently describe everything

174
00:08:27,960 --> 00:08:31,160
Speaker 7: we can see around those quantum mechanics and gravity or

175
00:08:31,200 --> 00:08:34,440
Speaker 7: I guess special relativity. But the question is are those

176
00:08:34,520 --> 00:08:37,840
Speaker 7: actually right? Do those theories actually describe the universe in

177
00:08:37,960 --> 00:08:41,120
Speaker 7: all instances, or do they break down at some point?

178
00:08:41,160 --> 00:08:44,160
Speaker 7: And what does that mean about our understanding of the universe.

179
00:08:44,280 --> 00:08:46,800
Speaker 1: One of the most frustrating things about general relativity and

180
00:08:46,840 --> 00:08:49,920
Speaker 1: quantum mechanics is that they don't agree about what happens.

181
00:08:49,960 --> 00:08:53,440
Speaker 1: And maybe the most interesting moment of the universe, that

182
00:08:53,559 --> 00:08:57,000
Speaker 1: is the very first few moments when things are very

183
00:08:57,080 --> 00:09:00,560
Speaker 1: high energy and very dense, and we need both gravity

184
00:09:00,600 --> 00:09:04,120
Speaker 1: and quantum mechanics to understand what happened. Was there singularity,

185
00:09:04,280 --> 00:09:06,520
Speaker 1: was there something else? What was going on at the

186
00:09:06,640 --> 00:09:09,360
Speaker 1: very beginning of the universe. We're pretty sure that our

187
00:09:09,400 --> 00:09:11,800
Speaker 1: current theories can't be right, and so we're on the

188
00:09:11,880 --> 00:09:13,599
Speaker 1: hunt for new ideas.

189
00:09:13,880 --> 00:09:16,120
Speaker 7: So today on the podcast, we'll be tackling the question

190
00:09:21,320 --> 00:09:25,560
Speaker 7: what is rainbow gravity? Now, Daniel, is this like how

191
00:09:25,640 --> 00:09:29,679
Speaker 7: much does a rainbow wag? Like? Is a rainbow heavy?

192
00:09:29,679 --> 00:09:31,880
Speaker 7: Can you measure the happiness in the rainbow?

193
00:09:34,400 --> 00:09:37,679
Speaker 1: How many pots of gold are generated by general relativity?

194
00:09:38,040 --> 00:09:40,360
Speaker 1: Maybe we have a new theory called golden relativity.

195
00:09:40,480 --> 00:09:41,400
Speaker 7: Hey, that sounds good.

196
00:09:42,520 --> 00:09:45,480
Speaker 1: No, this is literally a theory of the universe that

197
00:09:45,600 --> 00:09:49,800
Speaker 1: predicts that gravity could make rainbows the same way that

198
00:09:49,880 --> 00:09:53,720
Speaker 1: like prisms or drops of water make rainbows in your eyeball,

199
00:09:53,960 --> 00:09:57,160
Speaker 1: Like gravity itself could bend white light and turn it

200
00:09:57,240 --> 00:09:58,400
Speaker 1: into rainbows.

201
00:09:59,120 --> 00:10:01,079
Speaker 7: Now, I guess the question is would those be regular

202
00:10:01,360 --> 00:10:04,880
Speaker 7: rainbows or would you need to call them like gravitational rainbows.

203
00:10:04,960 --> 00:10:07,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, those would be gravitational rainbows because you definitely wouldn't

204
00:10:07,840 --> 00:10:10,160
Speaker 1: see them in the atmosphere on Earth. This would be

205
00:10:10,200 --> 00:10:12,840
Speaker 1: like something you see in your spaceship as you're falling

206
00:10:12,880 --> 00:10:14,600
Speaker 1: towards the edge of a black hole.

207
00:10:14,800 --> 00:10:16,720
Speaker 7: But this wouldn't just be like a lens flare, like

208
00:10:16,760 --> 00:10:19,679
Speaker 7: a jj Abram style lens flare on your camera or

209
00:10:19,720 --> 00:10:22,600
Speaker 7: your glasses or your spaceship window. This would be like

210
00:10:22,800 --> 00:10:25,200
Speaker 7: real black hole rainbows.

211
00:10:24,880 --> 00:10:28,000
Speaker 1: Real black hole rainbows. That's right, and you don't need

212
00:10:28,040 --> 00:10:29,960
Speaker 1: to ride a unicorn across the sky to see it.

213
00:10:30,200 --> 00:10:32,920
Speaker 1: If this theory is actually true, these rainbows exist in

214
00:10:32,960 --> 00:10:35,719
Speaker 1: the universe, and they might have existed very early on,

215
00:10:35,840 --> 00:10:38,240
Speaker 1: and they could completely change the way we think about

216
00:10:38,280 --> 00:10:40,760
Speaker 1: the very first moments of the cosmos.

217
00:10:40,880 --> 00:10:42,679
Speaker 7: Well, you don't need to be writing a unicorn, but

218
00:10:42,840 --> 00:10:46,160
Speaker 7: obviously anything is better while you're writing a unicorn. Surely.

219
00:10:46,520 --> 00:10:47,439
Speaker 7: I mean, I wouldn't know.

220
00:10:47,720 --> 00:10:50,240
Speaker 1: But ice cream is better when you're riding a unicorn, for.

221
00:10:50,200 --> 00:10:56,080
Speaker 7: Example, Absolutely well depends can this unicorn fly just gallop

222
00:10:56,080 --> 00:10:58,800
Speaker 7: along because it might be hard to lick an ice

223
00:10:58,800 --> 00:10:59,480
Speaker 7: cream cone.

224
00:10:59,280 --> 00:11:02,200
Speaker 1: While you're yeah, you know, I am not an expert

225
00:11:02,240 --> 00:11:04,920
Speaker 1: on the categories of unicorns. Do unicorns come with wings

226
00:11:05,040 --> 00:11:06,960
Speaker 1: or is that a pegasust or pegasus is just a

227
00:11:07,000 --> 00:11:09,760
Speaker 1: horse with wings? What do you call it if it's

228
00:11:09,800 --> 00:11:11,240
Speaker 1: a unicorn with wings?

229
00:11:11,480 --> 00:11:14,319
Speaker 7: I think unicorns just fly on a rainbow, right, is

230
00:11:14,679 --> 00:11:16,520
Speaker 7: that what happens? Like you're galloping and then like a

231
00:11:16,600 --> 00:11:19,520
Speaker 7: rainbow bridge pops up and then you're flying. It's like

232
00:11:19,559 --> 00:11:20,920
Speaker 7: the bifrost and thor.

233
00:11:21,920 --> 00:11:25,439
Speaker 1: And Welcome to the Science of Unicorns, a sub episode

234
00:11:25,960 --> 00:11:27,080
Speaker 1: of rainbow Gravity.

235
00:11:28,679 --> 00:11:30,280
Speaker 7: Well, let's get back you right, let's get back on

236
00:11:30,320 --> 00:11:34,520
Speaker 7: topic here. We're talking about rainbow gravity or gravitational rainbow Oh,

237
00:11:34,520 --> 00:11:36,120
Speaker 7: what's the right way to call this? Is there such

238
00:11:36,160 --> 00:11:37,440
Speaker 7: a thing as rainbow gravity.

239
00:11:37,520 --> 00:11:39,800
Speaker 1: There is really a theory out there in the community

240
00:11:40,000 --> 00:11:43,000
Speaker 1: called rainbow gravity, and that's what we're talking about today.

241
00:11:43,200 --> 00:11:45,360
Speaker 1: We're going to try to avoid talking about unicorns, but

242
00:11:45,400 --> 00:11:48,600
Speaker 1: I suspect the gravitational attraction of their gorgeousness is going

243
00:11:48,679 --> 00:11:49,920
Speaker 1: to pull us back in anyway.

244
00:11:50,200 --> 00:11:53,040
Speaker 7: You're saying this sequels called unicorn gravity.

245
00:11:52,720 --> 00:11:55,160
Speaker 1: Flying unicorn gravity, that's the title of my next paper

246
00:11:55,160 --> 00:11:55,720
Speaker 1: on this topic.

247
00:11:55,840 --> 00:11:59,000
Speaker 7: Well, you're gonna take one theory combined with an imaginary

248
00:11:59,040 --> 00:12:01,480
Speaker 7: theory to get an ex Thanks for imaginary.

249
00:12:01,240 --> 00:12:03,320
Speaker 1: In some version of the multiverse that earns me a

250
00:12:03,400 --> 00:12:05,840
Speaker 1: huge pot of grain funding, which I get in delivery

251
00:12:05,840 --> 00:12:06,600
Speaker 1: of gold coins.

252
00:12:06,760 --> 00:12:08,440
Speaker 7: Well, I'm going to one up you and put wings

253
00:12:08,440 --> 00:12:10,280
Speaker 7: on that unicorn. So my theory is going to be

254
00:12:10,360 --> 00:12:12,959
Speaker 7: the rainbow unicorn Pegasu's gravity theory.

255
00:12:13,000 --> 00:12:15,000
Speaker 1: All right, Well then I'm gonna put horns on the

256
00:12:15,040 --> 00:12:16,640
Speaker 1: wings on that unicorn.

257
00:12:17,480 --> 00:12:21,079
Speaker 7: Okay, this is getting a little it should be Lovecraft

258
00:12:21,120 --> 00:12:23,640
Speaker 7: in here, but it is an interesting theory, this idea

259
00:12:23,640 --> 00:12:28,880
Speaker 7: of rainbow gravity or gravitational rainbows and can gravity me rainbows? So,

260
00:12:28,920 --> 00:12:30,680
Speaker 7: as usual, we were wondering how many people out there

261
00:12:30,800 --> 00:12:33,520
Speaker 7: had thought about this or maybe dreamt it in one

262
00:12:33,520 --> 00:12:34,160
Speaker 7: of their dreams.

263
00:12:34,200 --> 00:12:36,760
Speaker 1: So thank you to all the people and unicorns who

264
00:12:36,840 --> 00:12:40,280
Speaker 1: volunteer to answer these questions. We greatly appreciate it and

265
00:12:40,520 --> 00:12:43,360
Speaker 1: enjoy hearing your thoughts. If you would like to participate

266
00:12:43,400 --> 00:12:45,679
Speaker 1: for future episodes, please don't be shy. Write to me

267
00:12:45,800 --> 00:12:48,360
Speaker 1: to questions at Danielandhorge dot com.

268
00:12:48,440 --> 00:12:50,040
Speaker 7: Think about it for a second, what do you think

269
00:12:50,520 --> 00:12:53,680
Speaker 7: is rainbow gravity. Here's what people have to say.

270
00:12:53,720 --> 00:12:58,120
Speaker 8: Okay, So rainbows are created by the reflection refraction of light,

271
00:12:58,960 --> 00:13:03,160
Speaker 8: and the wavelength of that light depends on what we

272
00:13:03,240 --> 00:13:07,760
Speaker 8: see in terms of its color. So rainbow gravity if

273
00:13:07,800 --> 00:13:12,400
Speaker 8: I think of gravitational waves, maybe as those waves are

274
00:13:12,440 --> 00:13:17,199
Speaker 8: passing through or having light passed through them, maybe it's

275
00:13:17,200 --> 00:13:19,559
Speaker 8: the effect that the light and the different wavelengths of

276
00:13:19,559 --> 00:13:21,959
Speaker 8: the light has on those gravitational waves.

277
00:13:22,000 --> 00:13:26,240
Speaker 9: Maybe I don't know, maybe light moist that split the

278
00:13:26,440 --> 00:13:30,000
Speaker 9: light based on frequency. Gravity is split the thing based

279
00:13:30,080 --> 00:13:34,320
Speaker 9: off your density, and you call the outcome rainbow gravity.

280
00:13:35,400 --> 00:13:37,959
Speaker 7: Well, I've definitely never heard of rainbow gravity.

281
00:13:38,280 --> 00:13:40,880
Speaker 3: So my best guess is that it is something that

282
00:13:40,960 --> 00:13:42,920
Speaker 3: has to do with the way gravity affects light.

283
00:13:43,720 --> 00:13:46,920
Speaker 7: Maybe it's a property of gravitational lenthing.

284
00:13:47,200 --> 00:13:49,480
Speaker 1: Oh geez, I do not know.

285
00:13:49,600 --> 00:13:53,360
Speaker 10: I would imagine that it has to do with the

286
00:13:53,400 --> 00:13:55,720
Speaker 10: spectrum of light and how gravity could affect light, But

287
00:13:55,760 --> 00:13:56,680
Speaker 10: I'm not sure.

288
00:13:57,360 --> 00:13:59,359
Speaker 1: Maybe how gravity could split.

289
00:13:59,160 --> 00:14:02,320
Speaker 7: Light A right, We've got a nice spectrum of answers here,

290
00:14:02,600 --> 00:14:06,360
Speaker 7: very colorful orful. Yeah that was low hanging fruit. But yeah,

291
00:14:06,360 --> 00:14:07,640
Speaker 7: a lot of some people had never heard of it,

292
00:14:07,679 --> 00:14:09,480
Speaker 7: and some people had some pretty good ideas, like it's

293
00:14:09,520 --> 00:14:13,880
Speaker 7: maybe gravity causing lensing, which might create a rainbow effect.

294
00:14:13,960 --> 00:14:16,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. This seems to be a well named theory

295
00:14:16,840 --> 00:14:19,200
Speaker 1: because it inspired some good ideas and listeners.

296
00:14:19,360 --> 00:14:23,480
Speaker 7: Well, I would obviously disagree, but that's never stopped physicists

297
00:14:23,480 --> 00:14:27,880
Speaker 7: from naming things in counterintuitive ways. Let's see how this goes, Daniel,

298
00:14:27,920 --> 00:14:31,120
Speaker 7: I mean rainbow gravity. But is gravity actually a rainbow?

299
00:14:31,160 --> 00:14:31,560
Speaker 7: I don't know.

300
00:14:31,640 --> 00:14:33,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a really fun theory that tries to solve

301
00:14:33,640 --> 00:14:37,280
Speaker 1: a problem at the heart of physics, the connection between

302
00:14:37,320 --> 00:14:40,720
Speaker 1: general relativity and quantum mechanics, or more specifically, the lack

303
00:14:40,760 --> 00:14:43,320
Speaker 1: of the connection, and along the way predicts beautiful events

304
00:14:43,360 --> 00:14:45,280
Speaker 1: like rainbows popping out of black holes.

305
00:14:45,760 --> 00:14:48,720
Speaker 7: Wait out of black holes? That would be impossible. Or

306
00:14:48,760 --> 00:14:50,920
Speaker 7: maybe that gets it the rainbow, so maybe it's magical.

307
00:14:51,000 --> 00:14:53,720
Speaker 1: Perhaps I should have said at the edge of black holes.

308
00:14:53,960 --> 00:14:56,160
Speaker 7: Well, let's stick into it. You said it's a new

309
00:14:56,240 --> 00:14:58,720
Speaker 7: theory or a potential theory that's out there in the

310
00:14:58,720 --> 00:15:01,920
Speaker 7: physics community. Then maybe track to explain the intersection between

311
00:15:02,000 --> 00:15:05,840
Speaker 7: quantum mechanics and gravity, because those two things are not

312
00:15:05,960 --> 00:15:07,200
Speaker 7: quite compatible with each other.

313
00:15:07,280 --> 00:15:10,240
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, all of modern physics is built on these

314
00:15:10,280 --> 00:15:14,640
Speaker 1: two ideas, quantum mechanics and general relativity. But at their hearts,

315
00:15:14,680 --> 00:15:18,560
Speaker 1: these two theories are incompatible. They have completely different views

316
00:15:18,680 --> 00:15:21,840
Speaker 1: of the world. Even though they're in philosophical contradiction with

317
00:15:21,880 --> 00:15:26,040
Speaker 1: each other, they've survived together as twin pillars of our

318
00:15:26,120 --> 00:15:29,200
Speaker 1: theory of physics because they're never actually relevant at the

319
00:15:29,240 --> 00:15:32,960
Speaker 1: same time. So you can use gravity talk about really big,

320
00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:35,080
Speaker 1: massive things, and you can use quantum mechanics to talk

321
00:15:35,080 --> 00:15:37,880
Speaker 1: about really small things, and you never really need to

322
00:15:38,000 --> 00:15:40,040
Speaker 1: use both at the same time. So they've sort of

323
00:15:40,160 --> 00:15:42,680
Speaker 1: survived without having to talk to each other. They're like

324
00:15:42,760 --> 00:15:44,840
Speaker 1: a married couple that have turned into roommates.

325
00:15:45,080 --> 00:15:46,360
Speaker 7: Well that's kind of said, Well.

326
00:15:46,200 --> 00:15:47,440
Speaker 1: You know, if they do try to talk to each other,

327
00:15:47,520 --> 00:15:49,640
Speaker 1: it's gonna be a big argument, so they just try

328
00:15:49,680 --> 00:15:50,320
Speaker 1: to avoid it.

329
00:15:50,560 --> 00:15:52,560
Speaker 7: Why didn't know the physics the Radical Committee was so

330
00:15:53,920 --> 00:15:57,960
Speaker 7: dysfunctional and headed for a potential split in the future.

331
00:15:58,040 --> 00:15:59,920
Speaker 1: It's not all rainbows and unicorns, man.

332
00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:03,120
Speaker 7: Well, maybe help us understand this a little bit. Where

333
00:16:03,200 --> 00:16:06,200
Speaker 7: is that incompatibility. Is it just that you physicis haven't

334
00:16:06,240 --> 00:16:09,800
Speaker 7: been able to make it work in the mathematical way,

335
00:16:10,000 --> 00:16:12,920
Speaker 7: or is there something fundamental about how they view the

336
00:16:13,000 --> 00:16:15,239
Speaker 7: universe that is just totally incompatible.

337
00:16:15,320 --> 00:16:17,560
Speaker 1: So there's something fundamental about the way they view the

338
00:16:17,640 --> 00:16:20,520
Speaker 1: universe that is just incompatible. We'll talk about exactly what

339
00:16:20,600 --> 00:16:23,040
Speaker 1: that is in a minute. And all attempts so far

340
00:16:23,160 --> 00:16:27,360
Speaker 1: to unify them have failed mathematically, just do not work.

341
00:16:27,640 --> 00:16:29,880
Speaker 1: So that's essentially what the struggle is. And so let's

342
00:16:29,880 --> 00:16:34,240
Speaker 1: start with quantum mechanics. Quantum mechanics specifically quantum field theory,

343
00:16:34,280 --> 00:16:36,520
Speaker 1: which is this description we talk about in the podcast.

344
00:16:36,520 --> 00:16:39,880
Speaker 1: A lot of space being filled with quantum fields, and

345
00:16:39,920 --> 00:16:42,960
Speaker 1: particles are like ripples in those fields that propagate through

346
00:16:43,000 --> 00:16:46,480
Speaker 1: space and interact with each other. That's very, very successful, right,

347
00:16:46,520 --> 00:16:49,680
Speaker 1: It's an amazing theory. It describes all of the particle

348
00:16:49,720 --> 00:16:52,720
Speaker 1: experiments that we've done. It's made very specific predictions of

349
00:16:52,800 --> 00:16:56,640
Speaker 1: numbers like ten decimal places that have all been verified experimentally.

350
00:16:57,200 --> 00:16:59,840
Speaker 1: It seems like a very accurate description of what happens

351
00:17:00,080 --> 00:17:03,960
Speaker 1: two particles. But it assumes that space is not curved,

352
00:17:04,080 --> 00:17:07,080
Speaker 1: that space is flat, that the shortest distance between two

353
00:17:07,119 --> 00:17:09,560
Speaker 1: points is always what appears to us to be a

354
00:17:09,640 --> 00:17:12,919
Speaker 1: straight line, and operating in flat space essentially means that

355
00:17:12,960 --> 00:17:17,080
Speaker 1: we're ignoring gravity. Quantum field theory is very successful because basically,

356
00:17:17,119 --> 00:17:19,920
Speaker 1: gravity is irrelevant. If you have two particles and they're

357
00:17:19,960 --> 00:17:22,600
Speaker 1: pushing against each other with powerful forces, you don't really

358
00:17:22,600 --> 00:17:26,439
Speaker 1: care about the gravitational effects onto electrons because gravity is

359
00:17:26,480 --> 00:17:29,880
Speaker 1: so weak compared to the other forces. So quantum field

360
00:17:29,920 --> 00:17:32,800
Speaker 1: theory assumes that gravity is irrelevant and does a great

361
00:17:32,880 --> 00:17:35,320
Speaker 1: job of describing what happens to quantum particles.

362
00:17:35,520 --> 00:17:39,520
Speaker 7: Right. Quantum mechanics assumes a flat space universe, but general

363
00:17:39,560 --> 00:17:41,520
Speaker 7: relativity kind of assumes the opposite.

364
00:17:41,720 --> 00:17:44,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, general relativity tells us that the reason we have

365
00:17:45,040 --> 00:17:48,320
Speaker 1: gravity is not because there's some force out there tugging

366
00:17:48,320 --> 00:17:52,040
Speaker 1: on masses, but that space bends that when you put

367
00:17:52,160 --> 00:17:55,320
Speaker 1: mass into a space, it curves space. And this is

368
00:17:55,359 --> 00:17:59,159
Speaker 1: not curvature like relative to some external ruler. This is

369
00:17:59,280 --> 00:18:02,920
Speaker 1: intrinsic curvature, which means that it changes the relative distances

370
00:18:02,960 --> 00:18:06,359
Speaker 1: between points, and effectively, it makes the shortest distance between

371
00:18:06,400 --> 00:18:09,480
Speaker 1: two points seem to us like a curve because we

372
00:18:09,520 --> 00:18:12,639
Speaker 1: can't see this curvature directly, and so it appears to

373
00:18:12,720 --> 00:18:15,600
Speaker 1: us like there's a force because things are moving along

374
00:18:15,640 --> 00:18:18,679
Speaker 1: these curves. In reality, it's just the curvature of space.

375
00:18:18,760 --> 00:18:22,640
Speaker 1: But general relativity assumes that everything has a specific location

376
00:18:22,960 --> 00:18:26,240
Speaker 1: and velocity, and that can be perfectly well known. We

377
00:18:26,320 --> 00:18:29,160
Speaker 1: call it a classical theory because it ignores the quantum

378
00:18:29,160 --> 00:18:32,920
Speaker 1: mechanical nature of the world, the fact that particles, for example,

379
00:18:33,040 --> 00:18:36,080
Speaker 1: can't be pinned down to have a specific location and

380
00:18:36,200 --> 00:18:39,680
Speaker 1: velocity at all times. They don't have a trajectory like that,

381
00:18:39,720 --> 00:18:44,440
Speaker 1: but general relativity assumes that everything does. Fortunately, because gravity

382
00:18:44,480 --> 00:18:47,840
Speaker 1: is so weak, we've only tested general relativity in scenarios

383
00:18:47,880 --> 00:18:50,159
Speaker 1: where you have a huge mass like a planet or

384
00:18:50,200 --> 00:18:52,960
Speaker 1: a star or a black hole, where you can basically

385
00:18:53,040 --> 00:18:55,880
Speaker 1: ignore quantum mechanics. So they sort of have each their

386
00:18:55,920 --> 00:18:59,040
Speaker 1: own domains. They view the world very very differently, that

387
00:18:59,160 --> 00:19:02,439
Speaker 1: make totally different, incompatible assumptions about the world, and they

388
00:19:02,440 --> 00:19:04,960
Speaker 1: make predictions about different parts of the world, and they're

389
00:19:05,000 --> 00:19:07,320
Speaker 1: both correct in their own regimes.

390
00:19:07,200 --> 00:19:09,560
Speaker 7: Right, Although I guess, you know, coming at this from

391
00:19:09,600 --> 00:19:13,360
Speaker 7: the outside, not having been too immerse indies, they don't

392
00:19:13,400 --> 00:19:17,040
Speaker 7: sound that incompatible to me. I guess maybe that's one

393
00:19:17,080 --> 00:19:20,240
Speaker 7: of that's something other people struggle with. I mean, it's

394
00:19:20,240 --> 00:19:22,920
Speaker 7: sort of like one of them says that Daniel is tall,

395
00:19:22,960 --> 00:19:25,680
Speaker 7: and the other one, says Daniel words glasses like those

396
00:19:25,720 --> 00:19:30,640
Speaker 7: are not necessarily incompatible. Things like couldn't quantum fields exist

397
00:19:30,760 --> 00:19:34,360
Speaker 7: in space that is also bending, And couldn't bending space

398
00:19:34,560 --> 00:19:37,919
Speaker 7: exists in also in the universe where particles have a

399
00:19:37,960 --> 00:19:39,480
Speaker 7: minimum size and are uncertain.

400
00:19:39,560 --> 00:19:42,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, we think that probably is possible to describe both

401
00:19:42,200 --> 00:19:44,680
Speaker 1: because universe exists and it seems to be self consistent.

402
00:19:44,960 --> 00:19:47,880
Speaker 1: So we think it probably is possible to reconcile gravity

403
00:19:47,920 --> 00:19:51,399
Speaker 1: and quantum mechanics because both things are happening in our world.

404
00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:53,440
Speaker 1: We haven't been able to do that.

405
00:19:53,440 --> 00:19:56,000
Speaker 7: Like light is being bent around the Sun and it's

406
00:19:56,040 --> 00:19:59,800
Speaker 7: being bent around black holes, and we know light quantis

407
00:19:59,880 --> 00:20:00,600
Speaker 7: is well right.

408
00:20:00,800 --> 00:20:02,719
Speaker 1: Well, let me give you an example of something that

409
00:20:02,760 --> 00:20:06,400
Speaker 1: we can't do because we can't unify gravity and quantum mechanics,

410
00:20:06,720 --> 00:20:09,160
Speaker 1: is that we don't know how to calculate the gravity

411
00:20:09,240 --> 00:20:12,680
Speaker 1: of particles. Quantum particles, for example, don't have a specific

412
00:20:12,720 --> 00:20:15,920
Speaker 1: location that have probabilities to be in different locations, Like

413
00:20:15,960 --> 00:20:17,880
Speaker 1: an electron could be on the other side of the room,

414
00:20:18,160 --> 00:20:19,760
Speaker 1: or it could be right next to you. What is

415
00:20:19,800 --> 00:20:23,879
Speaker 1: the gravity of that electron whose position is uncertain? General

416
00:20:23,920 --> 00:20:26,960
Speaker 1: relativity doesn't allow for any uncertainty in the position. It says,

417
00:20:27,119 --> 00:20:29,720
Speaker 1: your gravity depends on where you are. If where you

418
00:20:29,760 --> 00:20:33,040
Speaker 1: are is uncertain, then where is your Gravity's your gravity

419
00:20:33,160 --> 00:20:36,679
Speaker 1: also uncertain or is it shared between the two different locations.

420
00:20:36,960 --> 00:20:40,159
Speaker 1: Does gravity collapse that wave function forcing the electron to

421
00:20:40,200 --> 00:20:43,439
Speaker 1: be in one spot from where it's gravity emanates, or

422
00:20:43,520 --> 00:20:47,520
Speaker 1: is gravity quantum mechanical and it allows the superposition of

423
00:20:47,640 --> 00:20:51,560
Speaker 1: different gravitational attractions. That's something we don't know the answer to.

424
00:20:51,600 --> 00:20:54,520
Speaker 1: That's something we can't calculate right now because we don't

425
00:20:54,560 --> 00:20:57,440
Speaker 1: have a theory that does gravity for quantum objects.

426
00:20:57,800 --> 00:21:00,320
Speaker 7: Right, But I guess you know, particle has someone certain

427
00:21:01,080 --> 00:21:02,720
Speaker 7: to it in terms of where it is and where

428
00:21:02,720 --> 00:21:04,919
Speaker 7: it's going. But if you step back far enough, it

429
00:21:04,960 --> 00:21:07,119
Speaker 7: does have sort of a location, right. I mean, you

430
00:21:07,119 --> 00:21:10,080
Speaker 7: step back far enough from a particle, you can calculate

431
00:21:10,119 --> 00:21:11,159
Speaker 7: what its gravity is.

432
00:21:11,280 --> 00:21:13,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, if you step back far enough or you love

433
00:21:13,320 --> 00:21:16,280
Speaker 1: enough particles together, then they start to act like classical

434
00:21:16,280 --> 00:21:20,280
Speaker 1: objects like a baseball. Baseball effectively has no uncertainty on

435
00:21:20,400 --> 00:21:22,800
Speaker 1: where it is and it's velocity because it acts like

436
00:21:22,840 --> 00:21:25,400
Speaker 1: a classical object, which is ten to the twenty six

437
00:21:25,480 --> 00:21:29,560
Speaker 1: quantum objects all moving together and so general relativity assumes

438
00:21:29,560 --> 00:21:31,600
Speaker 1: that that is still true the baseball description of the

439
00:21:31,640 --> 00:21:34,080
Speaker 1: world when you get down to one electron. But we

440
00:21:34,160 --> 00:21:36,560
Speaker 1: know that one electron doesn't move like a baseball. It

441
00:21:36,600 --> 00:21:39,199
Speaker 1: doesn't have a whole path, and so we don't know

442
00:21:39,240 --> 00:21:42,040
Speaker 1: how to talk about, like how two electrons interact with

443
00:21:42,080 --> 00:21:44,359
Speaker 1: each other gravitationally, And we can't test it either. We

444
00:21:44,400 --> 00:21:46,760
Speaker 1: can't just like go and look and watch two electrons

445
00:21:46,800 --> 00:21:50,080
Speaker 1: pushing against each other gravitationally because the gravitational force is

446
00:21:50,160 --> 00:21:52,399
Speaker 1: so weak that we could never measure that. And so

447
00:21:52,440 --> 00:21:53,520
Speaker 1: it's a big question.

448
00:21:53,560 --> 00:21:56,480
Speaker 7: Right, But you, for example, you are able to, for example,

449
00:21:56,600 --> 00:21:59,960
Speaker 7: calculate the force between two electrons to like the electric

450
00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:03,320
Speaker 7: magnetic force between two electrons, right, Like, you can do that,

451
00:22:03,480 --> 00:22:05,040
Speaker 7: I guess the question is why can't you do it

452
00:22:05,040 --> 00:22:07,600
Speaker 7: with gravity, Like why can you just kind of like

453
00:22:07,680 --> 00:22:11,119
Speaker 7: average it out or use probability to figure out what

454
00:22:11,240 --> 00:22:13,480
Speaker 7: the most probable gravity is.

455
00:22:13,760 --> 00:22:16,720
Speaker 1: So we can calculate the gravitational force between two electrons

456
00:22:16,760 --> 00:22:20,440
Speaker 1: if their positions are known, But because they're quantum objects,

457
00:22:20,440 --> 00:22:23,240
Speaker 1: we don't know their positions. So what you're proposing, basically

458
00:22:23,280 --> 00:22:26,000
Speaker 1: is a theory of quantum gravity that says gravity is

459
00:22:26,040 --> 00:22:29,080
Speaker 1: a quantum force and interacts not with the location of

460
00:22:29,080 --> 00:22:32,800
Speaker 1: the objects, but with their probabilities that it actually interacts

461
00:22:32,800 --> 00:22:35,120
Speaker 1: with the wave functions of these guys. So now you're

462
00:22:35,119 --> 00:22:37,920
Speaker 1: trying to turn gravity into a quantum field theory, which

463
00:22:37,920 --> 00:22:39,640
Speaker 1: is fine and that's cool, and a lot of people

464
00:22:39,680 --> 00:22:41,240
Speaker 1: are working on that. But when you do that, you

465
00:22:41,320 --> 00:22:44,040
Speaker 1: run into a lot of mathematical problems. Basically, you get

466
00:22:44,080 --> 00:22:46,920
Speaker 1: lots of infinities when you try to do these calculations,

467
00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:49,600
Speaker 1: and we get infinities when we do all quantum field theories,

468
00:22:49,680 --> 00:22:52,280
Speaker 1: Like we talked on the podcast about something called renormalization,

469
00:22:52,320 --> 00:22:55,639
Speaker 1: where we tuck infinities under the rug. For example, the

470
00:22:55,680 --> 00:22:57,959
Speaker 1: true charge of the electron, if you look at it

471
00:22:58,000 --> 00:23:01,160
Speaker 1: really really close, seems to be negati of infinity, which

472
00:23:01,240 --> 00:23:03,520
Speaker 1: makes no sense. But you can sort of like wrap

473
00:23:03,560 --> 00:23:06,080
Speaker 1: it in a cloud of particles and renormalize it and

474
00:23:06,119 --> 00:23:09,359
Speaker 1: subtract away that infinity and say that's all fine. You

475
00:23:09,440 --> 00:23:11,840
Speaker 1: can't do that for gravity because you get an infinite

476
00:23:11,960 --> 00:23:15,359
Speaker 1: number of those infinities. Gravity couples to itself and it

477
00:23:15,359 --> 00:23:18,000
Speaker 1: couples to everything, and so it just sort of goes crazy,

478
00:23:18,240 --> 00:23:20,040
Speaker 1: and we just don't know how to do those calculations.

479
00:23:20,080 --> 00:23:23,720
Speaker 1: We don't have the mathematical framework that can successfully do that.

480
00:23:23,760 --> 00:23:26,520
Speaker 1: Something has to change when particles have a really really

481
00:23:26,560 --> 00:23:29,240
Speaker 1: high energy in order for those infinities to go away.

482
00:23:29,760 --> 00:23:34,359
Speaker 7: All right, So it's hard getting from you, and nobody

483
00:23:34,359 --> 00:23:36,120
Speaker 7: has been able to do it. But there is maybe

484
00:23:36,280 --> 00:23:38,800
Speaker 7: a new theory or a theory out there that does

485
00:23:38,840 --> 00:23:41,320
Speaker 7: seem to have maybe a magical solution to this problem,

486
00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:45,120
Speaker 7: gravitational rainbows or rainbow gravity, and so let's dig into

487
00:23:45,160 --> 00:23:47,879
Speaker 7: the details of that. But first let's take a quick break.

488
00:23:52,200 --> 00:23:55,200
Speaker 1: With big wireless providers, what you see is never what

489
00:23:55,240 --> 00:23:57,920
Speaker 1: you get. Somewhere between the store and your first month's bill,

490
00:23:58,000 --> 00:24:01,040
Speaker 1: the price, your thoughts, you we're paying these skyrockets. With

491
00:24:01,160 --> 00:24:04,560
Speaker 1: mint Mobile, You'll never have to worry about gotcha's ever again.

492
00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:06,879
Speaker 1: When mint Mobile says fifteen dollars a month for a

493
00:24:06,920 --> 00:24:09,720
Speaker 1: three month plan, they really mean it. I've used mint

494
00:24:09,720 --> 00:24:12,199
Speaker 1: Mobile and the call quality is always so crisp and

495
00:24:12,280 --> 00:24:14,720
Speaker 1: so clear. I can recommend it to you. So say

496
00:24:14,760 --> 00:24:18,000
Speaker 1: bye bye to your overpriced wireless plans, jaw dropping monthly

497
00:24:18,040 --> 00:24:21,159
Speaker 1: bills and unexpected overages. You can use your own phone

498
00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:23,720
Speaker 1: with any mint Mobile plan and bring your phone number

499
00:24:23,840 --> 00:24:27,120
Speaker 1: along with your existing contacts. So dit your overpriced wireless

500
00:24:27,119 --> 00:24:29,440
Speaker 1: with Mint Mobiles deal and get three months a premium

501
00:24:29,560 --> 00:24:32,000
Speaker 1: wireless service for fifteen bucks a month. To get this

502
00:24:32,040 --> 00:24:34,439
Speaker 1: new customer offer and your new three month premium wireless

503
00:24:34,480 --> 00:24:36,480
Speaker 1: plan for just fifteen bucks a month, go to mintmobile

504
00:24:36,520 --> 00:24:40,000
Speaker 1: dot com slash universe. That's mintmobile dot com slash universe.

505
00:24:40,040 --> 00:24:42,000
Speaker 1: Cut your wireless bill to fifteen bucks a month. At

506
00:24:42,040 --> 00:24:45,160
Speaker 1: mintmobile dot com slash universe. Forty five dollars upfront payment

507
00:24:45,160 --> 00:24:47,879
Speaker 1: required equivalent to fifteen dollars per month New customers on

508
00:24:47,960 --> 00:24:50,800
Speaker 1: first three month plan only speeds slower about forty gigabytes

509
00:24:50,800 --> 00:24:53,560
Speaker 1: On unlimited plan. Additional taxi spees and restrictions apply. See

510
00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:54,760
Speaker 1: mint mobile for details.

511
00:24:54,960 --> 00:24:57,960
Speaker 11: AI might be the most important new computer technology ever.

512
00:24:58,240 --> 00:25:01,479
Speaker 11: It's storming every industry and literally billions of dollars are

513
00:25:01,480 --> 00:25:05,720
Speaker 11: being invested, so buckle up. The problem is that AI

514
00:25:05,840 --> 00:25:08,680
Speaker 11: needs a lot of speed and processing power. So how

515
00:25:08,680 --> 00:25:11,840
Speaker 11: do you compete without cost spiraling out of control. It's

516
00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:14,200
Speaker 11: time to upgrade to the next generation of the cloud.

517
00:25:14,520 --> 00:25:19,680
Speaker 11: Oracle Cloud Infrastructure or OCI. OCI is a single platform

518
00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:24,600
Speaker 11: for your infrastructure, database, application development, and AI needs Oci

519
00:25:24,760 --> 00:25:27,120
Speaker 11: has four to eight times the bandwidth of other clouds,

520
00:25:27,480 --> 00:25:31,080
Speaker 11: offers one consistent price instead of variable regional pricing, and

521
00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:34,240
Speaker 11: of course nobody does data better than Oracle. So now

522
00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:36,480
Speaker 11: you can train your AI models at twice the speed

523
00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:39,000
Speaker 11: and less than half the cost of other clouds. If

524
00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:41,240
Speaker 11: you want to do more and spend less, like Uber

525
00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:44,040
Speaker 11: eight y eight and Data Bricks Mosaic, take a free

526
00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:47,959
Speaker 11: test drive of Oci at Oracle dot com slash strategic.

527
00:25:48,280 --> 00:25:53,520
Speaker 11: That's Oracle dot com slash strategic Oracle dot com slash strategic.

528
00:25:53,800 --> 00:25:56,720
Speaker 1: If you love iPhone, you'll love Apple Card. It's the

529
00:25:56,800 --> 00:26:00,639
Speaker 1: credit card designed for iPhone. It gives you unlimited daily

530
00:26:00,760 --> 00:26:03,760
Speaker 1: cash back that can earn four point four zero percent

531
00:26:03,880 --> 00:26:06,679
Speaker 1: annual percentage yield. When you open a high Yield savings

532
00:26:06,720 --> 00:26:09,560
Speaker 1: account through Apple Card, apply for Apple Card in the

533
00:26:09,640 --> 00:26:12,879
Speaker 1: wallet app, subject to credit approval. Savings is available to

534
00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:16,400
Speaker 1: Apple Card owners subject to eligibility. Apple Card and Savings

535
00:26:16,400 --> 00:26:19,280
Speaker 1: by Goldman Sachs Bank USA Salt Lake City Branch Member

536
00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:22,760
Speaker 1: FDIC terms and more at applecard dot com. When you

537
00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:24,800
Speaker 1: pop a piece of cheese into your mouth, or enjoy

538
00:26:24,840 --> 00:26:28,080
Speaker 1: a rich spoonful of Greek yogurt You're probably not thinking

539
00:26:28,160 --> 00:26:31,679
Speaker 1: about the environmental impact of each and every bite, but

540
00:26:31,760 --> 00:26:34,440
Speaker 1: the people in the dairy industry are. US Dairy has

541
00:26:34,440 --> 00:26:38,879
Speaker 1: set themselves some ambitious sustainability goals, including being greenhouse gas

542
00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:41,440
Speaker 1: neutral by twenty to fifty. That's why they're working hard

543
00:26:41,520 --> 00:26:43,959
Speaker 1: every day to find new ways to reduce waste, conserve

544
00:26:44,080 --> 00:26:47,840
Speaker 1: natural resources, and drive down greenhouse gas emissions. Take water,

545
00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:50,960
Speaker 1: for example, most dairy farms reuse water up to four

546
00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:54,480
Speaker 1: times the same water cools the milk, cleans equipment, washes

547
00:26:54,520 --> 00:26:57,320
Speaker 1: the barn, and irrigates the crops. How is US Dairy

548
00:26:57,359 --> 00:27:01,080
Speaker 1: tackling greenhouse gases. Many farms use anaerob digestors that turn

549
00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:05,040
Speaker 1: the methane from maneuver into renewable energy that can power farms, towns,

550
00:27:05,080 --> 00:27:07,159
Speaker 1: and electric cars. So the next time you grab a

551
00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:09,199
Speaker 1: slice of pizza or lick an ice cream cone, know

552
00:27:09,280 --> 00:27:11,960
Speaker 1: that dairy farmers and processors around the country are using

553
00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:15,480
Speaker 1: the latest practices and innovations to provide the nutrient dense

554
00:27:15,600 --> 00:27:18,320
Speaker 1: dairy products we love with less of an impact. Visit

555
00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:21,200
Speaker 1: us dairy dot com slash sustainability to learn more.

556
00:27:29,600 --> 00:27:33,200
Speaker 7: All right, we're talking about rainbow gravity, which sounds great.

557
00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:37,000
Speaker 7: Who doesn't want gravity to have its own spectrum of awesomeness?

558
00:27:37,280 --> 00:27:39,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. It's a very colorful theory. And you know,

559
00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:41,000
Speaker 1: during the break, I went off and did a little

560
00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:43,480
Speaker 1: bit of research and I discovered the answer to one

561
00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:46,200
Speaker 1: of the open questions we left dangling before.

562
00:27:46,400 --> 00:27:47,560
Speaker 7: Is the answer unicorns?

563
00:27:47,640 --> 00:27:47,800
Speaker 8: I know.

564
00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:51,640
Speaker 1: The answer actually is alacorn, and alcorn is a unicorn

565
00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:54,560
Speaker 1: with wings or a pegasus with a horn. There's a

566
00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:57,000
Speaker 1: name for this theingh.

567
00:27:56,119 --> 00:27:57,520
Speaker 7: So somebody already did that theory.

568
00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:01,000
Speaker 1: I think it's the my little universe that might have

569
00:28:01,080 --> 00:28:01,840
Speaker 1: coined this phrase.

570
00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:03,359
Speaker 7: What if I cross it with a lie in that

571
00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:06,399
Speaker 7: and then like a griffin, unicorn pegasus.

572
00:28:06,560 --> 00:28:09,200
Speaker 1: I think we better trademark that and start selling plush dolls.

573
00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:14,160
Speaker 7: Of those Lionala corn, maybe griffic corn. We are talking

574
00:28:14,200 --> 00:28:17,520
Speaker 7: about rainbow gravity, which sounds great, and it's maybe a

575
00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:22,320
Speaker 7: theory that tries to unify quantum mechanics and general relativity,

576
00:28:22,320 --> 00:28:24,000
Speaker 7: which are the two big theories that try to explain

577
00:28:24,119 --> 00:28:26,560
Speaker 7: rus which don't quite match up when you get to

578
00:28:26,680 --> 00:28:30,000
Speaker 7: certain situations. Daniel, we talked about how quantum mechanics is

579
00:28:30,040 --> 00:28:32,360
Speaker 7: not good at describing gravity, and we talked about how

580
00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:34,679
Speaker 7: general relativity is not good at describing things at the

581
00:28:34,760 --> 00:28:36,480
Speaker 7: microscopic level exactly.

582
00:28:36,520 --> 00:28:39,920
Speaker 1: And most of the time they don't conflict because quantum

583
00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:43,240
Speaker 1: mechanics is king of the microscopic particles and gravity is

584
00:28:43,320 --> 00:28:46,640
Speaker 1: king of the big massive stuff. But there are scenarios

585
00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:50,520
Speaker 1: we think when gravity and quantum mechanics are both important.

586
00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:54,520
Speaker 1: One of those is inside black holes, where things are

587
00:28:54,640 --> 00:28:58,920
Speaker 1: obviously very powerful gravitationally, but they're also compressed to super

588
00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:02,479
Speaker 1: tiny little pivs. Right, if there is a singularity at

589
00:29:02,480 --> 00:29:04,800
Speaker 1: the heart of a black hole, then that's small enough

590
00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:07,920
Speaker 1: to be a quantum mechanical object. So general relativity and

591
00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:11,160
Speaker 1: quantum mechanics both have something to say about what happens there.

592
00:29:11,320 --> 00:29:13,600
Speaker 1: We can't see inside black holes, and so we're left

593
00:29:13,640 --> 00:29:16,400
Speaker 1: only just wondering about what's going on inside. But there

594
00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:19,440
Speaker 1: are scenarios outside of black holes where we think both

595
00:29:19,480 --> 00:29:22,880
Speaker 1: general relativity and quantum mechanics have something to say, and

596
00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:26,080
Speaker 1: that's the case of very very high energy particles.

597
00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:27,760
Speaker 7: Yeah, but I guess I wonder if you need to

598
00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:30,120
Speaker 7: go that extreme just to kind of see where the

599
00:29:30,160 --> 00:29:34,520
Speaker 7: two theories take effect, right, because I think Einstein famously

600
00:29:34,840 --> 00:29:38,080
Speaker 7: proved general relativity or at least the bending of space.

601
00:29:38,120 --> 00:29:41,560
Speaker 7: By looking at how light bends around solar eclipse, for example,

602
00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:46,360
Speaker 7: we know that light is quantized, it follows quantum mechanical rules.

603
00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:49,760
Speaker 7: So isn't that an example, for example, of a quantized

604
00:29:49,800 --> 00:29:51,480
Speaker 7: thing following gravity?

605
00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:54,920
Speaker 1: Technically I suppose, But technically everything is a quantized thing.

606
00:29:55,040 --> 00:29:57,640
Speaker 1: You are a quantized thing, I am a quantized thing.

607
00:29:57,720 --> 00:30:00,800
Speaker 1: We are affected by the Earth's gravity. In that case,

608
00:30:01,120 --> 00:30:04,040
Speaker 1: they're not relying on the quantum nature of light. Light

609
00:30:04,120 --> 00:30:07,000
Speaker 1: could have just been classical electromagnetic waves and the same

610
00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:10,280
Speaker 1: thing would have happened because in that scenario, light is

611
00:30:10,400 --> 00:30:13,680
Speaker 1: moving through curved space, and so light, like everything else,

612
00:30:13,920 --> 00:30:16,920
Speaker 1: would move in a curve. So you're not relying on

613
00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:19,080
Speaker 1: the quantum nature of the object there.

614
00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:22,400
Speaker 7: So, like a quantized particle like light or an electron,

615
00:30:22,640 --> 00:30:25,880
Speaker 7: it can move through bent space, but due to gravity,

616
00:30:25,920 --> 00:30:27,360
Speaker 7: you know what I mean, Like you can you have

617
00:30:27,480 --> 00:30:31,480
Speaker 7: the mask to describe a single particle, single quantum particle

618
00:30:31,520 --> 00:30:33,800
Speaker 7: moving through bent space. Is that possible or is that

619
00:30:33,960 --> 00:30:34,760
Speaker 7: just not possible?

620
00:30:34,960 --> 00:30:37,440
Speaker 1: That's certainly possible, but there you're not relying on the

621
00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:40,720
Speaker 1: gravity of the quantum particle. You have something else, something

622
00:30:40,760 --> 00:30:43,120
Speaker 1: really big and massive, like the Earth or the Sun

623
00:30:43,240 --> 00:30:45,880
Speaker 1: or the Moon or a black hole that's doing the bending.

624
00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:48,600
Speaker 1: And so we do know how to talk about quantum

625
00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:52,960
Speaker 1: particles moving through bent space that we can calculate or

626
00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:55,680
Speaker 1: we don't know how to calculate is the gravity of

627
00:30:55,840 --> 00:30:58,719
Speaker 1: those particles and how that contributes to bend space.

628
00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:02,240
Speaker 7: Right, But doesn't the bending space depend on the gravity

629
00:31:02,320 --> 00:31:05,920
Speaker 7: on the particle? Right, Like technically you're talking about space time, right,

630
00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:07,920
Speaker 7: Like if I throw a baseball at the Sun, it's

631
00:31:07,960 --> 00:31:10,480
Speaker 7: not going to curve the same way that a photon

632
00:31:10,560 --> 00:31:13,200
Speaker 7: is going to curve, right, So, like the bending of

633
00:31:13,240 --> 00:31:16,720
Speaker 7: space depends on the thing that's moving. So if you

634
00:31:16,760 --> 00:31:21,400
Speaker 7: can calculate the bending of space for a particle, what's

635
00:31:21,480 --> 00:31:22,800
Speaker 7: worth the contradiction there?

636
00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:25,920
Speaker 1: Well, because there you're ignoring the gravity of the object.

637
00:31:26,440 --> 00:31:29,200
Speaker 1: Like you throw a baseball or a photon near the Moon,

638
00:31:29,360 --> 00:31:31,960
Speaker 1: You're not taking into account the bending of space due

639
00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:34,880
Speaker 1: to the baseball or due to the photon. You're just

640
00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:38,080
Speaker 1: calculating the trajectory of a test particle through the bend

641
00:31:38,160 --> 00:31:40,640
Speaker 1: space due to the Moon or due to the black hole.

642
00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:44,240
Speaker 1: You're not taking into account the gravity of the object itself.

643
00:31:44,280 --> 00:31:45,880
Speaker 7: Don't you need that to calculate how it's going to

644
00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:48,760
Speaker 7: curve around how it's going to bend around the moon.

645
00:31:48,880 --> 00:31:50,800
Speaker 1: No, you just need to know it's inertial mass. You

646
00:31:50,840 --> 00:31:52,520
Speaker 1: don't need to know what the effect of it on

647
00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:55,320
Speaker 1: space time itself. You just need to understand what it's

648
00:31:55,360 --> 00:31:57,520
Speaker 1: inertia is and so that you can understand how it

649
00:31:57,560 --> 00:31:58,840
Speaker 1: moves through bent space.

650
00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:02,680
Speaker 7: So the real problem is not how to calculate how

651
00:32:02,920 --> 00:32:06,800
Speaker 7: quantum particles move through bend space, but more about how

652
00:32:07,000 --> 00:32:11,360
Speaker 7: quantum particles give off gravity or know how they attract

653
00:32:11,360 --> 00:32:12,880
Speaker 7: other particles through gravity.

654
00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:16,000
Speaker 1: Yes, do they bend space exactly? And do they bend

655
00:32:16,040 --> 00:32:18,240
Speaker 1: space where they are or where they might be.

656
00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:20,880
Speaker 7: That's really the question, all right, So then talk to

657
00:32:20,920 --> 00:32:23,520
Speaker 7: us about this new theory rainbow gravity.

658
00:32:23,560 --> 00:32:26,040
Speaker 1: So the problem comes up at very very high energies.

659
00:32:26,120 --> 00:32:29,720
Speaker 1: If you have particles with super duper crazy high energies,

660
00:32:30,080 --> 00:32:33,240
Speaker 1: energies like the plant energy or energies that particles had

661
00:32:33,360 --> 00:32:35,680
Speaker 1: the very beginning of the universe, they have so much

662
00:32:35,760 --> 00:32:38,760
Speaker 1: energy that their gravity starts to not be ignorable. Usually,

663
00:32:38,840 --> 00:32:41,600
Speaker 1: when you talk about like two protons bouncing against each other,

664
00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:44,280
Speaker 1: you can ignore the gravitational effects. But if those two

665
00:32:44,280 --> 00:32:48,720
Speaker 1: protons have enough energy, then their gravity becomes really really powerful.

666
00:32:48,840 --> 00:32:51,960
Speaker 1: Because remember gravity is the bending of space time in

667
00:32:52,040 --> 00:32:55,240
Speaker 1: response not just to mass, but in response to energy.

668
00:32:55,320 --> 00:32:57,719
Speaker 1: And so take for example, two particles and collide them

669
00:32:57,760 --> 00:33:00,560
Speaker 1: at super duper high energy, much higher energy than we've

670
00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:03,440
Speaker 1: done before, you might get, for example, a black hole,

671
00:33:03,560 --> 00:33:05,440
Speaker 1: or at least you have to take into account the

672
00:33:05,440 --> 00:33:08,960
Speaker 1: gravitational interaction. So we think that maybe the solution to

673
00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:11,959
Speaker 1: this problem lies in understanding what happens to particles at

674
00:33:12,080 --> 00:33:16,320
Speaker 1: very very high energy, and Rainbow gravity says maybe at

675
00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:19,520
Speaker 1: very high energy the rules change a little bit and

676
00:33:19,640 --> 00:33:22,640
Speaker 1: gravity for those really high energies is a little bit different.

677
00:33:22,920 --> 00:33:26,200
Speaker 7: What so, as a particle gets moving faster and faster,

678
00:33:26,360 --> 00:33:30,920
Speaker 7: it accumulates energy, right, that's what you're saying. And for

679
00:33:31,160 --> 00:33:33,800
Speaker 7: when you have that much energy in a small package,

680
00:33:33,840 --> 00:33:36,120
Speaker 7: then you kind of have to think about how that

681
00:33:36,200 --> 00:33:39,240
Speaker 7: affects gravity because gravity, I mean, we always talk about

682
00:33:39,280 --> 00:33:42,520
Speaker 7: gravity being a function of mass, like the more mass

683
00:33:42,600 --> 00:33:44,280
Speaker 7: you have, the more gravity you have, But it's really

684
00:33:44,560 --> 00:33:46,600
Speaker 7: just about how much energy you have, right, Like the

685
00:33:46,600 --> 00:33:48,800
Speaker 7: bending of space is due to the energy that you.

686
00:33:48,800 --> 00:33:52,000
Speaker 1: Have, yes, due to energy density, not literally mass, mass

687
00:33:52,040 --> 00:33:55,160
Speaker 1: is a component of the energy density, but it's not

688
00:33:55,280 --> 00:33:56,400
Speaker 1: the only contribution.

689
00:33:56,640 --> 00:33:58,520
Speaker 7: Right. So, now you have like a quantum particle. It's

690
00:33:58,560 --> 00:34:00,480
Speaker 7: moving really fast, but it has a lot of energy

691
00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:02,800
Speaker 7: in a small place. But it's quantum, so there are

692
00:34:02,840 --> 00:34:06,760
Speaker 7: some uncertainties to it. And so now the question is like,

693
00:34:06,880 --> 00:34:08,800
Speaker 7: can you explain gravity in that situation.

694
00:34:09,080 --> 00:34:12,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, So rainbow gravity theory says, let's change the rules

695
00:34:12,920 --> 00:34:15,840
Speaker 1: of gravity as you move up in energy. Now, currently

696
00:34:15,920 --> 00:34:18,480
Speaker 1: we think that all particles feel gravity the same way.

697
00:34:18,640 --> 00:34:20,520
Speaker 1: For example, you have a big massive objects and it's

698
00:34:20,560 --> 00:34:23,759
Speaker 1: bending space, and you shoot a red photon through it

699
00:34:23,880 --> 00:34:26,840
Speaker 1: or a green photon through it. Those things will bend

700
00:34:26,920 --> 00:34:29,319
Speaker 1: around that object the same way. They'll end up at

701
00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:33,000
Speaker 1: the same place. Right that all different energies of photons

702
00:34:33,040 --> 00:34:35,040
Speaker 1: all get bent the same way because they all see

703
00:34:35,040 --> 00:34:37,520
Speaker 1: the same curvature of space. They're like running along the

704
00:34:37,560 --> 00:34:38,160
Speaker 1: same track.

705
00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:40,520
Speaker 7: But wait, don't each of those photons have a different

706
00:34:40,520 --> 00:34:41,320
Speaker 7: amount of energy.

707
00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:44,799
Speaker 1: Yeah, but remember we're not considering the gravitational effect of

708
00:34:44,920 --> 00:34:47,640
Speaker 1: the particle, just of the other object that's curving space,

709
00:34:47,680 --> 00:34:51,080
Speaker 1: that's guiding these particles. We're ignoring the gravitational effect of

710
00:34:51,120 --> 00:34:54,719
Speaker 1: those particles and so rainbow gravity says, what if that's

711
00:34:54,760 --> 00:34:58,400
Speaker 1: not true? What if as you move through space, how

712
00:34:58,480 --> 00:35:01,840
Speaker 1: much curvature you see to depends on your energy. So

713
00:35:01,920 --> 00:35:04,520
Speaker 1: for example, maybe a red photon and a green photon

714
00:35:04,840 --> 00:35:08,760
Speaker 1: see a different amount of curvature that somehow the curvature

715
00:35:08,800 --> 00:35:12,400
Speaker 1: you see depends on your energy, and so as the

716
00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:14,960
Speaker 1: photon's wavelength or its color, or its energy, these are

717
00:35:14,960 --> 00:35:18,680
Speaker 1: all equivalent changes, you see different curvature. If that happens,

718
00:35:18,719 --> 00:35:20,640
Speaker 1: then if you take, for example, a beam of white

719
00:35:20,719 --> 00:35:23,000
Speaker 1: light and you bend it around a black hole, each

720
00:35:23,120 --> 00:35:26,920
Speaker 1: different wavelength would get bent a different amount, resulting in

721
00:35:26,960 --> 00:35:30,359
Speaker 1: a rainbow. So the idea of rainbow gravity is to say,

722
00:35:30,400 --> 00:35:33,640
Speaker 1: maybe gravity depends on the energy of the particle in

723
00:35:33,680 --> 00:35:35,800
Speaker 1: this way, so they see a different amount of curvature,

724
00:35:35,840 --> 00:35:38,920
Speaker 1: which would change how things happen at very very high energies.

725
00:35:39,680 --> 00:35:44,160
Speaker 7: You're saying, like made gravity is not constant throughout all situations,

726
00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:47,479
Speaker 7: like somehow gravity is you know, dependent on how fast

727
00:35:47,480 --> 00:35:47,879
Speaker 7: you're going.

728
00:35:48,000 --> 00:35:51,239
Speaker 1: Technically, this is called an energy dependent metric. Metric is

729
00:35:51,280 --> 00:35:54,600
Speaker 1: like the curvature of space in general relativity theory, and

730
00:35:54,719 --> 00:35:57,200
Speaker 1: so typically that metric is constant, doesn't depend on what

731
00:35:57,239 --> 00:35:59,680
Speaker 1: your energy is. But now they say, well, let's take

732
00:35:59,680 --> 00:36:02,440
Speaker 1: that METAe make it energy dependent. Let's say that if

733
00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:04,960
Speaker 1: you're moving through the universe, you might see different curvature

734
00:36:05,080 --> 00:36:07,279
Speaker 1: depending on the energy you have.

735
00:36:07,560 --> 00:36:10,959
Speaker 7: But then isn't like mass the same as energy, right?

736
00:36:11,440 --> 00:36:13,239
Speaker 7: So are you saying that if I have more or

737
00:36:13,320 --> 00:36:16,440
Speaker 7: less mass, I'm going to see space bent differently.

738
00:36:16,640 --> 00:36:20,400
Speaker 1: I think that's probably true. Very very massive particles would

739
00:36:20,440 --> 00:36:23,480
Speaker 1: see space bend differently than lower mass particles.

740
00:36:23,600 --> 00:36:26,400
Speaker 7: Okay, so the idea is that gravity is different depending

741
00:36:26,440 --> 00:36:28,360
Speaker 7: on how fast you're moving or how much energy or

742
00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:31,640
Speaker 7: mass you have, which is very different than what we have.

743
00:36:31,800 --> 00:36:34,120
Speaker 7: We think about it now, right like right now, general

744
00:36:34,120 --> 00:36:37,360
Speaker 7: relativity says that gravity is the same everywhere.

745
00:36:37,440 --> 00:36:40,279
Speaker 1: Exactly. It says that gravity is the same everywhere. And

746
00:36:40,440 --> 00:36:42,240
Speaker 1: you might be wondering, like, well, how does this solve

747
00:36:42,239 --> 00:36:45,000
Speaker 1: the problem of general relativity and quantum mechanics. It's not

748
00:36:45,040 --> 00:36:48,040
Speaker 1: exactly a solution. It's just sort of like maybe in

749
00:36:48,080 --> 00:36:52,720
Speaker 1: this direction a solution lies. It's sort of like exploratory. Remember,

750
00:36:52,760 --> 00:36:55,360
Speaker 1: you know we talked about science as a developing process.

751
00:36:55,600 --> 00:36:58,399
Speaker 1: We don't always have like the final answer all at once.

752
00:36:58,719 --> 00:37:01,120
Speaker 1: Sometimes what we do is we say, what's in this direction,

753
00:37:01,320 --> 00:37:03,839
Speaker 1: what happens if we try this kind of thing? Does

754
00:37:03,880 --> 00:37:05,919
Speaker 1: this lead to a solution? And so it's not clear

755
00:37:06,040 --> 00:37:08,719
Speaker 1: yet whether this might lead to a solution, but there's

756
00:37:08,760 --> 00:37:10,480
Speaker 1: a little bit of a sketch of an argument for

757
00:37:10,560 --> 00:37:12,920
Speaker 1: why it might. People have this idea for how to

758
00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:15,480
Speaker 1: solve the problem of like what's the gravity of an

759
00:37:15,520 --> 00:37:19,759
Speaker 1: uncertain quantum particle, of saying maybe the curvature itself has uncertainty,

760
00:37:20,120 --> 00:37:22,440
Speaker 1: like I think you were saying earlier, if an electron

761
00:37:22,480 --> 00:37:25,560
Speaker 1: has uncertainty and it's bending space time, then maybe space

762
00:37:25,600 --> 00:37:28,839
Speaker 1: time itself has an uncertainty, a quantum uncertainty, like maybe

763
00:37:28,840 --> 00:37:30,839
Speaker 1: we live in this universe with this bent space time,

764
00:37:30,920 --> 00:37:32,839
Speaker 1: or maybe we live in that universe with that bent

765
00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:35,319
Speaker 1: space time. So people have done a bunch of calculations

766
00:37:35,320 --> 00:37:38,759
Speaker 1: and shown that if the curvature itself has some uncertainty,

767
00:37:39,239 --> 00:37:42,680
Speaker 1: it would lead to an energy dependence of that curvature,

768
00:37:42,840 --> 00:37:45,880
Speaker 1: Basically that particles moving through the universe with different energies

769
00:37:46,160 --> 00:37:49,640
Speaker 1: would see different aspects of this uncertainty. So this is

770
00:37:49,680 --> 00:37:53,000
Speaker 1: like saying, if space itself has some uncertainty, then you

771
00:37:53,080 --> 00:37:56,400
Speaker 1: might get this kind of effect for very high energy particles.

772
00:37:56,280 --> 00:37:59,040
Speaker 7: I see, because you sort of maybe need gravity to

773
00:37:59,800 --> 00:38:03,399
Speaker 7: be not constant throughout the universe, because you know, if

774
00:38:03,400 --> 00:38:06,800
Speaker 7: these particles are quantum, that means they're here and they're there.

775
00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:09,480
Speaker 7: And if they're here and there, then that can't mean

776
00:38:09,520 --> 00:38:13,040
Speaker 7: that they have gravity here and they have gravity there.

777
00:38:13,480 --> 00:38:16,359
Speaker 7: But maybe if gravity is different in the two situations,

778
00:38:16,400 --> 00:38:19,040
Speaker 7: then it's like maybe has half gravity here half everyady there,

779
00:38:19,040 --> 00:38:21,600
Speaker 7: which kind of makes a full one gravity.

780
00:38:21,760 --> 00:38:24,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, And we don't know, right We do not

781
00:38:24,360 --> 00:38:26,759
Speaker 1: know if gravity operates that way, if it really can

782
00:38:26,800 --> 00:38:30,000
Speaker 1: be probabilistic or not. This is an attempt to incorporate

783
00:38:30,040 --> 00:38:32,960
Speaker 1: that quantum uncertainty into the theory of gravity. And if

784
00:38:33,000 --> 00:38:35,440
Speaker 1: you do the calculations and say what happens to particles

785
00:38:35,520 --> 00:38:38,759
Speaker 1: moving through space that's uncertain, how do they bend? It

786
00:38:38,800 --> 00:38:41,640
Speaker 1: turns out that particles that different energies interact with that

787
00:38:41,680 --> 00:38:44,680
Speaker 1: space different that see a different slice of that uncertainty.

788
00:38:45,000 --> 00:38:48,000
Speaker 1: So particles with really high energy would bend differently than

789
00:38:48,040 --> 00:38:51,560
Speaker 1: particles with low energy as they move through that uncertain space.

790
00:38:51,920 --> 00:38:53,720
Speaker 1: And that gives you rainbows.

791
00:38:53,520 --> 00:38:56,200
Speaker 7: And again, how does that help bring together quantum mechanics

792
00:38:56,200 --> 00:38:56,800
Speaker 7: and gravity?

793
00:38:56,960 --> 00:38:58,680
Speaker 1: If this is true and you see it and you

794
00:38:58,719 --> 00:39:01,319
Speaker 1: confirm its actually part of our universe. For example, it

795
00:39:01,320 --> 00:39:03,560
Speaker 1: gives you a very strong hint. It tells you that

796
00:39:03,600 --> 00:39:07,000
Speaker 1: space time itself is uncertain. One possibility is that gravity

797
00:39:07,040 --> 00:39:10,440
Speaker 1: is quantum mechanical, right, that space time has uncertainty to it.

798
00:39:10,760 --> 00:39:12,759
Speaker 1: That we live in the universe where space time can

799
00:39:12,840 --> 00:39:15,799
Speaker 1: have two different possibilities and they get collapsed when you

800
00:39:15,840 --> 00:39:18,400
Speaker 1: test them. Right. The other is that gravity is not

801
00:39:18,520 --> 00:39:21,640
Speaker 1: quantum mechanical, and that gravity itself collapses those wave functions

802
00:39:22,040 --> 00:39:26,280
Speaker 1: that when two electrons interact gravitationally, their wave functions don't interact.

803
00:39:26,440 --> 00:39:29,319
Speaker 1: They collapse each other's wave functions, and then electron has

804
00:39:29,320 --> 00:39:31,520
Speaker 1: a location here and another location there, and you have

805
00:39:31,640 --> 00:39:34,680
Speaker 1: very specific sort of classical gravity. So if we see

806
00:39:34,760 --> 00:39:38,400
Speaker 1: rainbow gravity, that tells us that gravity can accommodate uncertain

807
00:39:38,480 --> 00:39:39,760
Speaker 1: space times.

808
00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:43,520
Speaker 7: And that single particles can have gravity that themselves, right,

809
00:39:43,760 --> 00:39:45,120
Speaker 7: just like a planet does.

810
00:39:45,120 --> 00:39:47,040
Speaker 1: Exactly, And like if an electron is fifty percent over

811
00:39:47,080 --> 00:39:49,440
Speaker 1: here and fifty percent over there, then space time is

812
00:39:49,440 --> 00:39:52,080
Speaker 1: also fifty percent bent over here and fifty percent bent

813
00:39:52,160 --> 00:39:52,600
Speaker 1: over there.

814
00:39:52,680 --> 00:39:55,040
Speaker 7: All right, Yeah, then that's how you avoid the infinities

815
00:39:55,040 --> 00:39:56,280
Speaker 7: that you were talking about earlier.

816
00:39:56,400 --> 00:39:58,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, because it changes how particles move at very very

817
00:39:58,920 --> 00:40:02,560
Speaker 1: high energies, which exactly where these infinities crop up. Thinking

818
00:40:02,600 --> 00:40:05,200
Speaker 1: about like what happens to particles with really high energies

819
00:40:05,200 --> 00:40:07,960
Speaker 1: which bend space time, which create more gravitons, and you

820
00:40:08,000 --> 00:40:10,920
Speaker 1: get this infinite pile of gravitons and a runaway energy.

821
00:40:11,200 --> 00:40:13,360
Speaker 1: So if you change the behavior of the particles a

822
00:40:13,480 --> 00:40:16,400
Speaker 1: very very high energy, you can basically delete those infinities

823
00:40:16,440 --> 00:40:19,680
Speaker 1: because you change the rules and when you get near infinity,

824
00:40:19,880 --> 00:40:21,600
Speaker 1: so the infinities basically go away.

825
00:40:21,840 --> 00:40:24,560
Speaker 7: Cool. All right, Well that's the theory of rainbow gravity,

826
00:40:24,640 --> 00:40:27,040
Speaker 7: and so let's talk about what would happen if it

827
00:40:27,120 --> 00:40:29,040
Speaker 7: is true. What kinds of things would we see out there?

828
00:40:29,000 --> 00:40:33,279
Speaker 7: Would we see rainbows around black holes? Would we see unicorns?

829
00:40:34,040 --> 00:40:36,440
Speaker 7: And would that mean that unicorns are also quantized?

830
00:40:36,520 --> 00:40:38,160
Speaker 1: I hope, So I don't ever want to see one

831
00:40:38,160 --> 00:40:39,440
Speaker 1: and a half unicorns.

832
00:40:39,680 --> 00:40:41,359
Speaker 7: Well, if nobody wants to be your back end, then

833
00:40:41,680 --> 00:40:43,240
Speaker 7: you might have to be a half unicorn.

834
00:40:44,120 --> 00:40:45,360
Speaker 1: That's a good point.

835
00:40:45,800 --> 00:40:47,920
Speaker 7: All right, well's to get into that, but first, let's

836
00:40:47,960 --> 00:40:49,040
Speaker 7: take another quick break.

837
00:40:53,200 --> 00:40:55,000
Speaker 1: When you pop a piece of cheese into your mouth

838
00:40:55,080 --> 00:40:58,240
Speaker 1: or enjoy a rich spoonful of Greek yogurt. You're probably

839
00:40:58,280 --> 00:41:02,360
Speaker 1: not thinking about the environmental impact of each and every bite,

840
00:41:02,360 --> 00:41:04,960
Speaker 1: but the people in the dairy industry are. US Dairy

841
00:41:05,000 --> 00:41:09,319
Speaker 1: has set themselves some ambitious sustainability goals, including being greenhouse

842
00:41:09,320 --> 00:41:11,919
Speaker 1: gas neutral by twenty to fifty. That's why they're working

843
00:41:11,920 --> 00:41:14,320
Speaker 1: hard every day to find new ways to reduce waste,

844
00:41:14,360 --> 00:41:18,560
Speaker 1: conserve natural resources, and drive down greenhouse gas emissions. Take water,

845
00:41:18,600 --> 00:41:21,680
Speaker 1: for example, most dairy farms reuse water up to four

846
00:41:21,760 --> 00:41:25,200
Speaker 1: times the same water cools the milk, cleans equipment, washes

847
00:41:25,239 --> 00:41:28,080
Speaker 1: the barn, and irrigates the crops. How is US Dairy

848
00:41:28,080 --> 00:41:31,839
Speaker 1: tackling greenhouse gases. Many farms use anaerobic digestors that turn

849
00:41:31,880 --> 00:41:35,800
Speaker 1: the methane from maneure into renewable energy that can power farms, towns,

850
00:41:35,800 --> 00:41:37,880
Speaker 1: and electric cars. So the next time you grab a

851
00:41:37,920 --> 00:41:39,960
Speaker 1: slice of pizza or lick an ice cream cone, know

852
00:41:40,000 --> 00:41:42,680
Speaker 1: that dairy farmers and processors around the country are using

853
00:41:42,719 --> 00:41:46,239
Speaker 1: the latest practices and innovations to provide the nutrient dense

854
00:41:46,360 --> 00:41:49,080
Speaker 1: dairy products we love with less of an impact. Visit

855
00:41:49,160 --> 00:41:51,959
Speaker 1: usdairy dot com slash sustainability to learn more.

856
00:41:53,000 --> 00:41:56,480
Speaker 2: There are children, friends, and families walking, riding on passing

857
00:41:56,520 --> 00:41:58,919
Speaker 2: the roads every day. Remember they're real people with loved

858
00:41:58,960 --> 00:42:01,160
Speaker 2: ones who need them to get home safely. Protect our

859
00:42:01,160 --> 00:42:04,680
Speaker 2: cyclists and pedestrians because they're people too, Go safely, California

860
00:42:04,719 --> 00:42:07,040
Speaker 2: From the California Office of Traffic Safety in Caltrans.

861
00:42:07,120 --> 00:42:11,080
Speaker 3: We're just days away from our twenty twenty four iHeartRadio

862
00:42:11,239 --> 00:42:14,279
Speaker 3: Music Festival, presented by Capitol On the.

863
00:42:14,200 --> 00:42:17,440
Speaker 4: Biggest headliners in live music will be taking over to

864
00:42:17,560 --> 00:42:19,359
Speaker 4: Mobile Arena, Las Vegas.

865
00:42:19,160 --> 00:42:21,799
Speaker 5: Lost some special surprises and moments you are not going

866
00:42:21,880 --> 00:42:25,800
Speaker 5: to want to miss. Stream only on Hulu iHeartRadio Music

867
00:42:25,920 --> 00:42:30,520
Speaker 5: Festival and listen on iHeartRadio the most anticipated live music

868
00:42:30,560 --> 00:42:31,799
Speaker 5: events of the.

869
00:42:32,280 --> 00:42:35,880
Speaker 6: Year this Friday and Saturday, starting at ten thirty pm Eastern,

870
00:42:36,000 --> 00:42:37,040
Speaker 6: seven thirty Pacific.

871
00:42:37,840 --> 00:42:38,000
Speaker 7: Hi.

872
00:42:38,120 --> 00:42:41,760
Speaker 10: I'm David Eagleman from the podcast Inner Cosmos, which recently

873
00:42:41,840 --> 00:42:44,880
Speaker 10: hit the number one science podcast in America. I mean

874
00:42:44,960 --> 00:42:48,719
Speaker 10: neuroscientists at Stanford, and I've spent my career exploring the

875
00:42:48,800 --> 00:42:51,719
Speaker 10: three pound universe in our heads. We're looking at a

876
00:42:51,719 --> 00:42:55,400
Speaker 10: whole new series of episodes this season to understand why

877
00:42:55,440 --> 00:42:58,080
Speaker 10: and how our lives look the way they do.

878
00:42:58,520 --> 00:43:00,640
Speaker 7: Why does your memory drift so much?

879
00:43:01,200 --> 00:43:04,479
Speaker 10: Why is it so hard to keep a secret, When

880
00:43:04,520 --> 00:43:08,360
Speaker 10: should you not trust your intuition? Why do brains so

881
00:43:08,560 --> 00:43:11,399
Speaker 10: easily fall for magic tricks? And why do they love

882
00:43:11,520 --> 00:43:16,640
Speaker 10: conspiracy theories. I'm hitting these questions and hundreds more because

883
00:43:16,640 --> 00:43:19,360
Speaker 10: the more we know about what's running under the hood,

884
00:43:19,800 --> 00:43:23,320
Speaker 10: the better we can steer our lives. Join me weekly

885
00:43:23,480 --> 00:43:26,760
Speaker 10: to explore the relationship between your brain and your life

886
00:43:27,120 --> 00:43:31,520
Speaker 10: by digging into unexpected questions. Listen to Inner Cosmos with

887
00:43:31,600 --> 00:43:35,240
Speaker 10: David Eagleman on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever

888
00:43:35,320 --> 00:43:36,520
Speaker 10: you get your podcasts.

889
00:43:46,600 --> 00:43:49,520
Speaker 7: All right, we're talking about rainbow gravity and we talk

890
00:43:49,600 --> 00:43:51,719
Speaker 7: about what it is, and it's the new theory that

891
00:43:51,840 --> 00:43:54,760
Speaker 7: kind of tries to bring together quantum mechanics and general

892
00:43:54,800 --> 00:43:58,680
Speaker 7: relativity by saying that maybe gravity is not the same everywhere,

893
00:43:58,760 --> 00:44:03,239
Speaker 7: maybe it's different or different energy particles, which would sort

894
00:44:03,239 --> 00:44:06,200
Speaker 7: of help explain how gravity works at the quantum level. Now,

895
00:44:06,200 --> 00:44:08,840
Speaker 7: if this theory was true, Daniel, does that mean we

896
00:44:08,840 --> 00:44:10,640
Speaker 7: would see rainbows around black holes?

897
00:44:10,800 --> 00:44:13,840
Speaker 1: It does exactly mean that we would see rainbows around

898
00:44:13,920 --> 00:44:16,440
Speaker 1: black holes, because this is the theory that tries to

899
00:44:16,520 --> 00:44:19,680
Speaker 1: unify quantum mechanics and gravity, which mostly ignore each other

900
00:44:19,719 --> 00:44:22,239
Speaker 1: and live in different regimes. It's a hard kind of

901
00:44:22,239 --> 00:44:25,360
Speaker 1: thing to test. You need special circumstances. So this doesn't

902
00:44:25,400 --> 00:44:27,879
Speaker 1: mean that we should expect to see gravitational rainbows all

903
00:44:27,920 --> 00:44:30,240
Speaker 1: over the place, you know, through the moon or the sun.

904
00:44:30,640 --> 00:44:33,239
Speaker 1: It's only in extreme conditions because this is a very

905
00:44:33,360 --> 00:44:36,080
Speaker 1: very small effect until you get to very very high

906
00:44:36,239 --> 00:44:39,960
Speaker 1: energies or very very strong curvature of space, like around

907
00:44:40,000 --> 00:44:42,680
Speaker 1: a black hole. So you're in a spaceship and you're

908
00:44:42,719 --> 00:44:45,160
Speaker 1: falling towards a black hole, then white light near the

909
00:44:45,200 --> 00:44:48,120
Speaker 1: event horizon would be split into all the colors and

910
00:44:48,200 --> 00:44:50,800
Speaker 1: you would see rainbows before you get squished.

911
00:44:51,040 --> 00:44:53,760
Speaker 7: Meaning like I shoot a beam of light of white

912
00:44:53,840 --> 00:44:56,719
Speaker 7: light at a black hole at the very edge, and

913
00:44:56,840 --> 00:44:59,160
Speaker 7: as this beam of light gets very close to the

914
00:44:59,200 --> 00:45:02,040
Speaker 7: black hole, photons that are more red would get pulled

915
00:45:02,080 --> 00:45:04,560
Speaker 7: one way, and the photons that are more blue would

916
00:45:04,560 --> 00:45:06,480
Speaker 7: get pulled another way, and the purple ones would be

917
00:45:06,600 --> 00:45:09,440
Speaker 7: pulled a little bit differently, and so that would actually

918
00:45:09,680 --> 00:45:12,919
Speaker 7: kind of prism or split the beam of white light.

919
00:45:13,120 --> 00:45:15,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, prism exactly is the right analogy. That's what a

920
00:45:15,680 --> 00:45:19,520
Speaker 1: prism does, is that it bends light based on its wavelength.

921
00:45:19,840 --> 00:45:22,319
Speaker 1: Different wavelengths of light. It bent differently as you go

922
00:45:22,440 --> 00:45:25,359
Speaker 1: from air to glass and back to air. And so

923
00:45:25,400 --> 00:45:29,440
Speaker 1: they spread out white light into a rainbow. And because

924
00:45:29,520 --> 00:45:32,880
Speaker 1: now we're introducing an energy dependent effect or a wavelength

925
00:45:32,880 --> 00:45:36,560
Speaker 1: dependent effect on gravity, then black holes are basically prisms,

926
00:45:36,719 --> 00:45:38,840
Speaker 1: and they would change a beam of white light into

927
00:45:38,880 --> 00:45:41,040
Speaker 1: a spread based on the colors.

928
00:45:41,360 --> 00:45:45,480
Speaker 7: Yeah, they're prisms. And they're prisms because I guess you know,

929
00:45:45,560 --> 00:45:48,480
Speaker 7: white light is not like the each photon is white.

930
00:45:48,960 --> 00:45:51,759
Speaker 7: Is that you have a combination of photons, some of

931
00:45:51,760 --> 00:45:54,360
Speaker 7: them are white, some of them are higher and lower energy. Right,

932
00:45:54,440 --> 00:45:57,040
Speaker 7: That's what white light is. It's not like the photons

933
00:45:57,080 --> 00:45:57,520
Speaker 7: are white.

934
00:45:57,680 --> 00:46:00,879
Speaker 1: Yeah, there is no individual photon that has the white. Right.

935
00:46:00,920 --> 00:46:03,799
Speaker 1: White is not a single color. It's a combination of

936
00:46:03,880 --> 00:46:05,759
Speaker 1: many photons of different colors.

937
00:46:05,920 --> 00:46:08,120
Speaker 7: Right. And so around a black hole, the gravity we

938
00:46:08,120 --> 00:46:10,640
Speaker 7: would be so strong that it would actually start to

939
00:46:10,680 --> 00:46:13,719
Speaker 7: affect each of those photons differently, which is sort of

940
00:46:13,719 --> 00:46:16,520
Speaker 7: like a prism or a lens. I guess, which makes

941
00:46:16,560 --> 00:46:19,800
Speaker 7: me wonder, like why have we seen this effect? Have

942
00:46:19,880 --> 00:46:21,719
Speaker 7: we seen? I mean, now we now have pictures of

943
00:46:21,760 --> 00:46:23,839
Speaker 7: black holes, do we see any rainbows around it.

944
00:46:23,960 --> 00:46:26,760
Speaker 1: We do not see any rainbows around black holes yet.

945
00:46:26,880 --> 00:46:29,120
Speaker 1: This would be a very very slight effect, and you'd

946
00:46:29,160 --> 00:46:31,520
Speaker 1: need to look very carefully right at the edge of

947
00:46:31,560 --> 00:46:34,160
Speaker 1: a black hole. You need a well calibrated source also

948
00:46:34,480 --> 00:46:37,080
Speaker 1: to know whether you're seeing any distortion. To know whether

949
00:46:37,080 --> 00:46:38,640
Speaker 1: it's distorted, you have to know what it looked like

950
00:46:38,719 --> 00:46:41,640
Speaker 1: before it went around the black hole, and so we

951
00:46:41,680 --> 00:46:44,919
Speaker 1: don't have any nice, clear, crisp examples of that. Even

952
00:46:44,920 --> 00:46:47,200
Speaker 1: around black holes. This would be a very small effect.

953
00:46:47,360 --> 00:46:49,440
Speaker 7: But what do you mean it would be a small effect,

954
00:46:49,719 --> 00:46:53,080
Speaker 7: Like this effect is not very strong, it's very small.

955
00:46:53,719 --> 00:46:56,840
Speaker 7: The way gravity varies depending on the energy, Yeah.

956
00:46:56,719 --> 00:46:59,000
Speaker 1: And this theory, gravity does depend on the energy, but

957
00:46:59,040 --> 00:47:03,400
Speaker 1: it's basically unobservable until you get to super duper high energies.

958
00:47:03,520 --> 00:47:05,960
Speaker 1: In the same way that like effects of special relativity,

959
00:47:06,000 --> 00:47:08,440
Speaker 1: you can't really observe them when you're throwing a baseball around.

960
00:47:08,480 --> 00:47:11,600
Speaker 1: You don't notice clocks going slow. Your baseball doesn't seem

961
00:47:11,640 --> 00:47:14,400
Speaker 1: to shrink when you throw it even though it's going faster.

962
00:47:14,840 --> 00:47:17,399
Speaker 1: You don't notice the effects of special relativity here on

963
00:47:17,480 --> 00:47:20,600
Speaker 1: Earth because they're negligible. In the same way this energy

964
00:47:20,640 --> 00:47:24,600
Speaker 1: dependent effect of gravity is negligible except in extreme circumstances,

965
00:47:24,680 --> 00:47:26,720
Speaker 1: and so you need like a very crisp, clear setup

966
00:47:26,760 --> 00:47:28,360
Speaker 1: of a beam of white light right next to a

967
00:47:28,360 --> 00:47:30,880
Speaker 1: black hole and basically nothing else around so that you

968
00:47:30,920 --> 00:47:33,520
Speaker 1: can observe it. But there are some other ways we

969
00:47:33,600 --> 00:47:34,960
Speaker 1: might be able to test this theory.

970
00:47:35,120 --> 00:47:36,680
Speaker 7: Yeah. They involve gamma rays.

971
00:47:36,880 --> 00:47:39,480
Speaker 1: Yeah. So gamma rays are basically just a fancy name

972
00:47:39,560 --> 00:47:42,240
Speaker 1: for super high energy photons. And there are these strange

973
00:47:42,239 --> 00:47:44,200
Speaker 1: phenomena that we've talked about in the podcast a few

974
00:47:44,239 --> 00:47:47,200
Speaker 1: times called gamma ray bursts, where something out there in

975
00:47:47,200 --> 00:47:50,600
Speaker 1: the universe sends a huge spray of very high energy

976
00:47:50,640 --> 00:47:53,799
Speaker 1: gamma rays all about the same time. These things can

977
00:47:53,880 --> 00:47:57,080
Speaker 1: last like seconds or minutes. We don't really understand the

978
00:47:57,080 --> 00:47:59,520
Speaker 1: source of them. Check out our whole podcast episode on

979
00:47:59,560 --> 00:48:01,560
Speaker 1: that top for a deeper dive into it. But the

980
00:48:01,600 --> 00:48:03,600
Speaker 1: cool thing is that it's a nice test of this

981
00:48:03,760 --> 00:48:06,880
Speaker 1: theory because it sends us a big packet of photons,

982
00:48:06,960 --> 00:48:11,040
Speaker 1: some of which have huge energy, like crazy high energy photons,

983
00:48:11,400 --> 00:48:13,319
Speaker 1: and they all come to us about the same time,

984
00:48:13,480 --> 00:48:15,680
Speaker 1: so we can sort of use them as a probe

985
00:48:15,920 --> 00:48:18,520
Speaker 1: of how they've responded to the gravity of the universe

986
00:48:18,600 --> 00:48:19,680
Speaker 1: that they have flown.

987
00:48:19,400 --> 00:48:23,319
Speaker 7: Through, right, they might like arrive at different places in

988
00:48:23,360 --> 00:48:26,120
Speaker 7: our sensor or you know, like a rainbow kind of

989
00:48:26,120 --> 00:48:28,719
Speaker 7: gets split. Or are you saying they might arrive at

990
00:48:28,719 --> 00:48:29,520
Speaker 7: different times.

991
00:48:29,840 --> 00:48:31,839
Speaker 1: So if for example, they whizzer in a black hole,

992
00:48:31,880 --> 00:48:35,160
Speaker 1: they would get bent differently. But the universe has some curvature,

993
00:48:35,160 --> 00:48:37,719
Speaker 1: and as you move through it, you're slowed down by

994
00:48:37,719 --> 00:48:40,719
Speaker 1: that curvature, so that they would be differently time dilated

995
00:48:40,800 --> 00:48:43,880
Speaker 1: as they move through the universe if they see different curvature,

996
00:48:44,080 --> 00:48:46,759
Speaker 1: so they would effectively arrive at different times. If you

997
00:48:46,800 --> 00:48:48,640
Speaker 1: sent like a green or red and a blue photon

998
00:48:48,719 --> 00:48:52,200
Speaker 1: across the universe to us, then if this is true,

999
00:48:52,280 --> 00:48:55,360
Speaker 1: those photons would arrive at different times here on Earth

1000
00:48:55,520 --> 00:48:58,160
Speaker 1: because they would see different amounts of curvature. And you know,

1001
00:48:58,200 --> 00:49:01,719
Speaker 1: curvature affects the passage of time time and effectively how

1002
00:49:01,760 --> 00:49:04,400
Speaker 1: long it takes light to traverse from the source.

1003
00:49:04,560 --> 00:49:08,360
Speaker 7: So like some of the photons would get blue shifted

1004
00:49:08,440 --> 00:49:11,279
Speaker 7: more than others, or red shifted more than others. That's

1005
00:49:11,360 --> 00:49:13,080
Speaker 7: kind of what you're saying, because they have to arrive

1006
00:49:13,080 --> 00:49:15,920
Speaker 7: at the same time, don't they If they're moving at

1007
00:49:15,920 --> 00:49:16,600
Speaker 7: the speed of light.

1008
00:49:16,680 --> 00:49:18,680
Speaker 1: These would actually arrive at different times. I mean from

1009
00:49:18,719 --> 00:49:22,000
Speaker 1: their point of view, they would see different distances between

1010
00:49:22,200 --> 00:49:25,160
Speaker 1: the source and the destination because they're seeing different amounts

1011
00:49:25,200 --> 00:49:26,680
Speaker 1: of curvature of the universe.

1012
00:49:27,000 --> 00:49:28,799
Speaker 7: Well that's pretty interesting, but I guess couldn't we do

1013
00:49:28,840 --> 00:49:30,839
Speaker 7: that experiment here on Earth? Like you know, we can

1014
00:49:31,080 --> 00:49:33,680
Speaker 7: create camera rays, and we can also create you know,

1015
00:49:33,760 --> 00:49:37,040
Speaker 7: like ultraviolet or here anorder that can create high energy

1016
00:49:37,080 --> 00:49:39,600
Speaker 7: light and super low energy light. Couldn't we do some

1017
00:49:39,800 --> 00:49:41,720
Speaker 7: experiment where we should both and see what happens.

1018
00:49:41,960 --> 00:49:46,040
Speaker 1: Yes, but we can't create very strong gravitational curvature, right,

1019
00:49:46,080 --> 00:49:48,520
Speaker 1: So we can create pretty high energy photons, but not

1020
00:49:48,719 --> 00:49:51,239
Speaker 1: that high energy, not as high energy as exist out

1021
00:49:51,239 --> 00:49:54,440
Speaker 1: there in the universe. Also, we don't have very strong curvature.

1022
00:49:54,560 --> 00:49:56,279
Speaker 1: The value of this test is that the photons are

1023
00:49:56,320 --> 00:49:59,480
Speaker 1: super duper high energy because they come from some astrophysical source.

1024
00:50:00,160 --> 00:50:03,399
Speaker 1: They fly through a huge amount of curvature. So even

1025
00:50:03,440 --> 00:50:05,839
Speaker 1: the small effects of curvature add up over very very

1026
00:50:05,880 --> 00:50:06,759
Speaker 1: long distances.

1027
00:50:07,000 --> 00:50:09,600
Speaker 7: What do you mean, like curvature not due to any

1028
00:50:09,640 --> 00:50:11,600
Speaker 7: particular thing like a black hole, but just like the

1029
00:50:12,080 --> 00:50:15,040
Speaker 7: general curvature of space from having stuff in it.

1030
00:50:15,000 --> 00:50:17,200
Speaker 1: From having stuff in it. Yeah, exactly, as you fly

1031
00:50:17,280 --> 00:50:20,160
Speaker 1: through the galaxy, for example, there's a small gravitational well

1032
00:50:20,200 --> 00:50:22,840
Speaker 1: that the whole galaxy sits in. That's the curvature of

1033
00:50:22,880 --> 00:50:23,960
Speaker 1: our local space.

1034
00:50:24,160 --> 00:50:26,440
Speaker 7: But wouldn't we see that with regular light, because I

1035
00:50:26,480 --> 00:50:29,600
Speaker 7: know there's something called gravitational lensing out there where like

1036
00:50:29,640 --> 00:50:32,600
Speaker 7: a planet can sort of lens and bend light to

1037
00:50:32,640 --> 00:50:36,240
Speaker 7: give us a better view of another galaxy or another star,

1038
00:50:36,680 --> 00:50:39,480
Speaker 7: or you know, a dark matter can also kind of

1039
00:50:39,560 --> 00:50:43,680
Speaker 7: lens light. Wouldn't we see rainbows caused by dark matter too?

1040
00:50:43,920 --> 00:50:47,280
Speaker 1: So I think that's exactly what this is suggesting to probe. Right,

1041
00:50:47,480 --> 00:50:51,000
Speaker 1: Send a bunch of really high energy photons through space,

1042
00:50:51,280 --> 00:50:54,480
Speaker 1: and all the matter that's in space creates some curvature,

1043
00:50:54,840 --> 00:50:57,680
Speaker 1: and those photons would respond to that curvature differently based

1044
00:50:57,719 --> 00:51:00,520
Speaker 1: on their energies, and so you would see that then

1045
00:51:00,640 --> 00:51:02,759
Speaker 1: on Earth. And so, yes, the galaxy and all the

1046
00:51:02,840 --> 00:51:06,279
Speaker 1: dark matter are all contributing to that. The vanilla version

1047
00:51:06,280 --> 00:51:08,799
Speaker 1: of general relativity predicts that wouldn't happen, right, that they

1048
00:51:08,840 --> 00:51:11,200
Speaker 1: all get bent the same way. And you're right that

1049
00:51:11,200 --> 00:51:13,440
Speaker 1: that's something that is predicted as photons fall into a

1050
00:51:13,440 --> 00:51:16,800
Speaker 1: gravitational well, or dig themselves out of a gravitational Well,

1051
00:51:16,920 --> 00:51:19,600
Speaker 1: they do get shifted in frequency, for example, But we

1052
00:51:19,600 --> 00:51:23,160
Speaker 1: think that happens equally for photons of all energy. Rainbow

1053
00:51:23,200 --> 00:51:26,960
Speaker 1: gravity says it happens differently. So for very very long distances,

1054
00:51:27,080 --> 00:51:29,200
Speaker 1: these would accumulated it all the dark matter and the

1055
00:51:29,200 --> 00:51:31,920
Speaker 1: other stuff in the galaxy and create a small difference

1056
00:51:31,920 --> 00:51:34,279
Speaker 1: in the arrival time of those photons.

1057
00:51:33,960 --> 00:51:36,520
Speaker 7: But not in their location, like they would all arrive

1058
00:51:36,520 --> 00:51:39,480
Speaker 7: at the same spot. They would just maybe be colored

1059
00:51:39,520 --> 00:51:42,239
Speaker 7: a little bit different, or would they actually split like

1060
00:51:42,320 --> 00:51:42,840
Speaker 7: a rainbow.

1061
00:51:42,920 --> 00:51:44,880
Speaker 1: They would actually split like a rainbow, so we wouldn't

1062
00:51:44,880 --> 00:51:47,399
Speaker 1: see the whole thing, right, So the whole thing would

1063
00:51:47,400 --> 00:51:49,279
Speaker 1: get spread out across the universe, but we would get

1064
00:51:49,280 --> 00:51:51,439
Speaker 1: a slice of it, and in theory we might get

1065
00:51:51,440 --> 00:51:53,640
Speaker 1: ones of different color that we could also test their

1066
00:51:53,680 --> 00:51:56,080
Speaker 1: time of arrival. So we've actually done this, and we've

1067
00:51:56,120 --> 00:51:58,600
Speaker 1: looked at gamma ray bursts and we've tried to see

1068
00:51:58,600 --> 00:52:01,040
Speaker 1: if we see effects for it. There's no evidence for

1069
00:52:01,080 --> 00:52:03,840
Speaker 1: it so far, even these gamma ray bursts. The evidence

1070
00:52:03,880 --> 00:52:06,320
Speaker 1: would be pretty subtle, and we don't have that many

1071
00:52:06,400 --> 00:52:08,480
Speaker 1: examples of it, so the jury is still sort of

1072
00:52:08,560 --> 00:52:11,080
Speaker 1: out on this theory, we don't have any evidence for it,

1073
00:52:11,080 --> 00:52:12,759
Speaker 1: but we also can't yet rule it out.

1074
00:52:13,360 --> 00:52:15,200
Speaker 7: It sounds like it's not an effect that you would

1075
00:52:15,200 --> 00:52:18,160
Speaker 7: see in our everyday lives, like when we see galaxies

1076
00:52:18,200 --> 00:52:20,920
Speaker 7: being lens by dark matter out there, even that is

1077
00:52:20,960 --> 00:52:23,920
Speaker 7: not strong enough to split light due to rainbow gravity.

1078
00:52:24,000 --> 00:52:27,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, it requires a huge amount of energy or integration

1079
00:52:27,200 --> 00:52:29,320
Speaker 1: over very very long distances.

1080
00:52:29,680 --> 00:52:31,279
Speaker 7: I guess what maybe were just saying is that if

1081
00:52:31,360 --> 00:52:34,560
Speaker 7: rainbow gravity is true, it is happening even around us,

1082
00:52:34,600 --> 00:52:36,640
Speaker 7: all around us, you know, like if I look at

1083
00:52:36,640 --> 00:52:38,840
Speaker 7: my hand, or if we look at galaxies through a

1084
00:52:38,960 --> 00:52:41,680
Speaker 7: dark matter gravitational lens, it is happening, but maybe just

1085
00:52:41,760 --> 00:52:43,920
Speaker 7: at a level that we can't discern.

1086
00:52:44,000 --> 00:52:46,080
Speaker 1: In the same way that like time dilation is happening

1087
00:52:46,200 --> 00:52:49,000
Speaker 1: all the time, linked contraction is happening all the time.

1088
00:52:49,280 --> 00:52:51,560
Speaker 1: You just can't tell because it's so negligible.

1089
00:52:51,600 --> 00:52:54,080
Speaker 7: All right, well, let's talk about now what would happen

1090
00:52:54,239 --> 00:52:56,480
Speaker 7: if this was true. We don't have evidence for it

1091
00:52:56,600 --> 00:52:58,759
Speaker 7: either way, whether it's true or not. But what would

1092
00:52:58,760 --> 00:53:01,640
Speaker 7: it mean if if it is true that rainbow gravity exists,

1093
00:53:01,880 --> 00:53:05,120
Speaker 7: or that gravity is not the same everywhere for everyone

1094
00:53:05,560 --> 00:53:06,600
Speaker 7: except unicorns.

1095
00:53:06,680 --> 00:53:09,320
Speaker 1: It has really interesting consequences if you run the clock

1096
00:53:09,360 --> 00:53:13,400
Speaker 1: of the universe backwards. Currently we see the universes expanding,

1097
00:53:13,440 --> 00:53:15,759
Speaker 1: and we run the clock backwards and we do the

1098
00:53:15,760 --> 00:53:19,080
Speaker 1: calculations in general relativity, and they predict something really weird.

1099
00:53:19,120 --> 00:53:22,640
Speaker 1: They predict a singularity that as the universe got denser

1100
00:53:22,680 --> 00:53:25,480
Speaker 1: and denser, there's a sort of runaway gravitational effect in

1101
00:53:25,600 --> 00:53:28,360
Speaker 1: reverse where you end up with a singularity where the

1102
00:53:28,400 --> 00:53:31,719
Speaker 1: universe is basically compressed into incredible density. So that's the

1103
00:53:31,760 --> 00:53:34,520
Speaker 1: prediction of general relativity, and you know, we think that's

1104
00:53:34,600 --> 00:53:37,279
Speaker 1: kind of bonkers. We think that those kinds of infinities

1105
00:53:37,280 --> 00:53:40,680
Speaker 1: probably don't exist in our universe. And this, to most

1106
00:53:40,680 --> 00:53:43,640
Speaker 1: physicists is a sign that general relativity needs some work

1107
00:53:43,920 --> 00:53:46,160
Speaker 1: right where this is a problem, and so this is

1108
00:53:46,200 --> 00:53:49,200
Speaker 1: where we look for alternatives. And so rainbow gravity. If

1109
00:53:49,239 --> 00:53:51,360
Speaker 1: you modify gravity in this way, it says well, in

1110
00:53:51,480 --> 00:53:54,160
Speaker 1: very high energies, things actually do change. And so you

1111
00:53:54,239 --> 00:53:57,600
Speaker 1: put this into the calculations instead of general relativity, and

1112
00:53:57,640 --> 00:54:01,560
Speaker 1: now particles that different energy are affected differently by that curvature,

1113
00:54:01,719 --> 00:54:04,120
Speaker 1: and you don't end up with a singularity. You end

1114
00:54:04,160 --> 00:54:06,760
Speaker 1: up with something which like smoothly gets denser and denser,

1115
00:54:06,920 --> 00:54:10,600
Speaker 1: but reaches sort of a minimum plateau. It's like, intuitively,

1116
00:54:10,600 --> 00:54:13,000
Speaker 1: it can't just like squeeze all the particles down to

1117
00:54:13,040 --> 00:54:15,439
Speaker 1: the same place because the particles are all now bent

1118
00:54:15,600 --> 00:54:17,480
Speaker 1: differently by the space.

1119
00:54:17,800 --> 00:54:21,080
Speaker 7: M What would that mean for black holes too? Does

1120
00:54:21,120 --> 00:54:23,560
Speaker 7: that mean there's no singularity at the center of black holes?

1121
00:54:23,719 --> 00:54:27,719
Speaker 1: Yes, This basically erases singularities in the universe, both singularities

1122
00:54:27,719 --> 00:54:29,640
Speaker 1: in time like what might have happened before the Big

1123
00:54:29,680 --> 00:54:33,600
Speaker 1: Bang and singularities in space like what's inside a black hole.

1124
00:54:33,920 --> 00:54:36,600
Speaker 1: Doesn't mean black holes shouldn't exist. It tells us maybe

1125
00:54:36,640 --> 00:54:39,200
Speaker 1: that the structure of matter inside the black hole isn't

1126
00:54:39,280 --> 00:54:43,360
Speaker 1: a singularity. It's something else, weirder. It's controlled by rainbow gravity.

1127
00:54:43,560 --> 00:54:46,360
Speaker 1: It's going to be something with a non zero size

1128
00:54:46,400 --> 00:54:46,680
Speaker 1: to it.

1129
00:54:46,960 --> 00:54:49,600
Speaker 7: Mmm, it'll have a fuzzy core to it, not like

1130
00:54:49,640 --> 00:54:50,400
Speaker 7: a single point.

1131
00:54:50,560 --> 00:54:52,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, a fuzzy, colorful core probably.

1132
00:54:53,000 --> 00:54:55,919
Speaker 7: Yeah. There are many colors of black, absolutely.

1133
00:54:55,400 --> 00:54:58,600
Speaker 1: Glossy black, matte, black, jet black.

1134
00:54:58,920 --> 00:55:01,840
Speaker 7: Yeah. So maybe now this sounds amazing and sounds like

1135
00:55:01,880 --> 00:55:04,440
Speaker 7: it would solve a big problem, maybe the biggest problem

1136
00:55:04,480 --> 00:55:07,160
Speaker 7: in physics right now, theoretically, at least, but we haven't

1137
00:55:07,160 --> 00:55:11,200
Speaker 7: seen evidence for it experimentally, and are there any reservations

1138
00:55:11,200 --> 00:55:12,399
Speaker 7: about just the theory of it.

1139
00:55:12,520 --> 00:55:15,919
Speaker 1: Most mainstream physicists think that this is crazy, right. They

1140
00:55:16,000 --> 00:55:19,000
Speaker 1: think that this is a monker's idea and just wouldn't

1141
00:55:19,000 --> 00:55:23,640
Speaker 1: fly basically because it violates a central principle something that

1142
00:55:23,719 --> 00:55:27,160
Speaker 1: we all think probably is true, which is that observers

1143
00:55:27,200 --> 00:55:31,240
Speaker 1: can all agree about the physical laws in our universe.

1144
00:55:31,480 --> 00:55:34,520
Speaker 1: We think that observers all see different things happening. But

1145
00:55:34,600 --> 00:55:37,239
Speaker 1: one of the foundational principles of special relativity is that

1146
00:55:37,280 --> 00:55:39,839
Speaker 1: the universe always follows the same laws. You might tell

1147
00:55:39,840 --> 00:55:42,880
Speaker 1: a different story about what happened, but everybody's story follows

1148
00:55:42,920 --> 00:55:46,560
Speaker 1: the same laws. This breaks that because now everything is

1149
00:55:46,640 --> 00:55:50,040
Speaker 1: like energy dependent, and so the amount of curvature you

1150
00:55:50,080 --> 00:55:53,359
Speaker 1: see depends on the energy you have. It breaks this

1151
00:55:53,400 --> 00:55:55,800
Speaker 1: thing we call Lorentz invariance.

1152
00:55:55,640 --> 00:55:58,440
Speaker 7: M right, because I guess if gravity depends on how

1153
00:55:58,520 --> 00:56:03,239
Speaker 7: much energy you have, energy can be a relative concept. Right,

1154
00:56:03,800 --> 00:56:07,120
Speaker 7: Energy depends on how fast you're moving your kinetic energy.

1155
00:56:07,280 --> 00:56:10,239
Speaker 7: Then that can look differently to different people, right, Like

1156
00:56:10,280 --> 00:56:13,680
Speaker 7: if you're moving super duper duper duper fast to somebody

1157
00:56:13,719 --> 00:56:16,240
Speaker 7: outside of yourself, you would have a lot of energy,

1158
00:56:16,320 --> 00:56:18,520
Speaker 7: but to you yourself, you wouldn't have a lot of energy.

1159
00:56:18,560 --> 00:56:19,120
Speaker 7: Is that what you mean.

1160
00:56:19,239 --> 00:56:21,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's that aspect to it, but it goes a

1161
00:56:21,239 --> 00:56:23,640
Speaker 1: little bit deeper than that. You know, right now, we

1162
00:56:23,719 --> 00:56:26,880
Speaker 1: think that space is relative in an important way, but

1163
00:56:26,920 --> 00:56:29,840
Speaker 1: that there are some invariants, so some things hold fast,

1164
00:56:29,920 --> 00:56:32,359
Speaker 1: like the speed of light is the same for all observers.

1165
00:56:32,880 --> 00:56:35,680
Speaker 1: But if this theory is true, then the speed of

1166
00:56:35,760 --> 00:56:39,080
Speaker 1: light sort of depends on the energy of the photons. Right,

1167
00:56:39,120 --> 00:56:43,120
Speaker 1: These photons traveling through space effectively have different speeds, and

1168
00:56:43,160 --> 00:56:47,279
Speaker 1: that's pretty weird. There's a lot of really strong constraints

1169
00:56:47,320 --> 00:56:50,600
Speaker 1: on measurements of a variable speed of light energy dependent

1170
00:56:50,680 --> 00:56:52,960
Speaker 1: speed of light, and so it would require, you know,

1171
00:56:52,960 --> 00:56:55,000
Speaker 1: a real revolution in the way we think about the

1172
00:56:55,080 --> 00:56:57,879
Speaker 1: nature of the universe. But maybe that's what's required. Right.

1173
00:56:58,080 --> 00:57:02,640
Speaker 1: Our current principles general relativity quantum mechanics have completely incompatible

1174
00:57:02,680 --> 00:57:05,680
Speaker 1: assumptions at their foundation, and so to unify them, we

1175
00:57:05,719 --> 00:57:07,600
Speaker 1: are going to have to get rid of something that

1176
00:57:07,640 --> 00:57:11,040
Speaker 1: we hold true, something that we cherish. Maybe it's lorents

1177
00:57:11,040 --> 00:57:14,560
Speaker 1: and variance, maybe it's not. But before this theory is accepted,

1178
00:57:14,600 --> 00:57:16,920
Speaker 1: it would require us to really rebuild a lot of

1179
00:57:16,920 --> 00:57:18,480
Speaker 1: physics from the ground up.

1180
00:57:18,760 --> 00:57:21,680
Speaker 7: Yeah, I get a physicist that don't like things to change.

1181
00:57:22,360 --> 00:57:25,480
Speaker 1: We love things to change. Actually, our dream is to

1182
00:57:25,480 --> 00:57:28,439
Speaker 1: find some new theory which blows everything up. But yeah,

1183
00:57:28,480 --> 00:57:29,919
Speaker 1: it does mean a lot of work. But that also

1184
00:57:29,960 --> 00:57:32,560
Speaker 1: means you know, hey, more grand funding, more piles of gold.

1185
00:57:32,600 --> 00:57:34,480
Speaker 7: But I guess what you mean is like, you don't

1186
00:57:34,560 --> 00:57:36,720
Speaker 7: like the laws of physics to be different, and depending

1187
00:57:36,720 --> 00:57:38,320
Speaker 7: on where you are in the universe.

1188
00:57:38,080 --> 00:57:40,160
Speaker 1: Yes, that's true. It would be very nice if the

1189
00:57:40,240 --> 00:57:42,280
Speaker 1: laws of physics were the same for everybody.

1190
00:57:42,480 --> 00:57:46,080
Speaker 7: And you're aguesst that because it would mean slop your math,

1191
00:57:46,200 --> 00:57:48,720
Speaker 7: or because you haven't seen any experimental proof of that.

1192
00:57:48,800 --> 00:57:51,000
Speaker 1: We haven't seen any experimental proof of it. And also

1193
00:57:51,040 --> 00:57:54,200
Speaker 1: it's kind of a nice principle if philosophically it just

1194
00:57:54,240 --> 00:57:56,520
Speaker 1: sort of like makes sense to imagine that the universe

1195
00:57:56,600 --> 00:57:58,439
Speaker 1: runs on a certain set of laws and those laws

1196
00:57:58,480 --> 00:58:00,800
Speaker 1: are the same for everybody. It doesn't have to be

1197
00:58:00,880 --> 00:58:02,880
Speaker 1: true in the same sense, like we don't even know

1198
00:58:02,920 --> 00:58:05,760
Speaker 1: why the universe has laws and why those laws don't

1199
00:58:05,840 --> 00:58:09,520
Speaker 1: change with time. There's a lot of just basic assumptions

1200
00:58:09,560 --> 00:58:13,680
Speaker 1: at the foundation of fundamental physics that we make and

1201
00:58:13,720 --> 00:58:16,040
Speaker 1: seem to work, but we don't really understand why, and

1202
00:58:16,200 --> 00:58:17,320
Speaker 1: we might have to revisit.

1203
00:58:17,520 --> 00:58:21,400
Speaker 7: Cool. Well, I guess once again it's stay tuned. It

1204
00:58:21,520 --> 00:58:23,920
Speaker 7: might be true. It might be that special thing that

1205
00:58:24,080 --> 00:58:26,800
Speaker 7: solves a lot of problems and feels magical to everyone.

1206
00:58:27,440 --> 00:58:29,240
Speaker 7: What does that term people use for something like that.

1207
00:58:30,880 --> 00:58:31,640
Speaker 1: A unicorn?

1208
00:58:32,160 --> 00:58:35,720
Speaker 7: A unicorn, right right, So the rainbow gravity theory might

1209
00:58:35,760 --> 00:58:39,440
Speaker 7: be a unicorn in itself, according to a physicist right

1210
00:58:39,440 --> 00:58:40,200
Speaker 7: here on the podcast.

1211
00:58:40,280 --> 00:58:43,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, it might fly in on rainbows and solve all

1212
00:58:43,320 --> 00:58:45,480
Speaker 1: the problems that we have, and that will.

1213
00:58:45,360 --> 00:58:47,919
Speaker 7: Let us see the full spectrum of the universe, see

1214
00:58:47,960 --> 00:58:51,080
Speaker 7: all of its beautiful colors, and also let us see

1215
00:58:51,080 --> 00:58:53,720
Speaker 7: how it changes in space and in time.

1216
00:58:53,880 --> 00:58:57,160
Speaker 1: So remember that science is a continual process that evolves

1217
00:58:57,160 --> 00:59:00,200
Speaker 1: and changes our understanding of the universe out there and

1218
00:59:00,280 --> 00:59:02,440
Speaker 1: how it works and where it came from. And as

1219
00:59:02,480 --> 00:59:04,480
Speaker 1: we learn more and more about the nature of the universe,

1220
00:59:04,520 --> 00:59:06,920
Speaker 1: we understand more and more about how it began and

1221
00:59:06,960 --> 00:59:08,360
Speaker 1: what it means to be here.

1222
00:59:08,600 --> 00:59:10,960
Speaker 7: We hope you enjoyed that. Thanks for joining us, See

1223
00:59:10,960 --> 00:59:11,440
Speaker 7: you next time.

1224
00:59:19,360 --> 00:59:22,160
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening, and remember that Daniel and Jorge Explain

1225
00:59:22,200 --> 00:59:26,160
Speaker 1: the Universe is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts

1226
00:59:26,240 --> 00:59:30,880
Speaker 1: from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever

1227
00:59:30,960 --> 00:59:44,960
Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows. When you pop a

1228
00:59:44,960 --> 00:59:47,280
Speaker 1: piece of cheese into your mouth, you're probably not thinking

1229
00:59:47,280 --> 00:59:50,200
Speaker 1: about the environmental impact. But the people in the dairy

1230
00:59:50,240 --> 00:59:53,360
Speaker 1: industry are. That's why they're working hard every day to

1231
00:59:53,400 --> 00:59:56,440
Speaker 1: find new ways to reduce waste, conserve natural resources, and

1232
00:59:56,560 --> 01:00:00,440
Speaker 1: drive down greenhouse gas emissions. How is us dairy hackling

1233
01:00:00,480 --> 01:00:04,200
Speaker 1: greenhouse gases? Many farms use anaerobic digesters to turn the

1234
01:00:04,240 --> 01:00:08,640
Speaker 1: methane from manure into renewable energy that can power farms, towns,

1235
01:00:08,680 --> 01:00:11,920
Speaker 1: and electric cars. Visit you as dairy dot COM's Last

1236
01:00:11,960 --> 01:00:13,600
Speaker 1: Sustainability to learn more.

1237
01:00:15,160 --> 01:00:18,640
Speaker 2: There are children, friends, and families walking, riding on passing

1238
01:00:18,680 --> 01:00:21,080
Speaker 2: the roads every day. Remember they're real people with loved

1239
01:00:21,120 --> 01:00:23,320
Speaker 2: ones who need them to get home safely. Protect our

1240
01:00:23,320 --> 01:00:26,880
Speaker 2: cyclists and pedestrians because they're people too. Go safely. California.

1241
01:00:26,880 --> 01:00:29,200
Speaker 2: From the California Office of Traffic Safety and Caltrans.

1242
01:00:29,280 --> 01:00:33,280
Speaker 3: We're just days away from our twenty twenty four iHeartRadio

1243
01:00:33,400 --> 01:00:35,760
Speaker 3: Music Festival, presented by Capitol on.

1244
01:00:36,200 --> 01:00:39,400
Speaker 4: The biggest headliners in live music will be taking over

1245
01:00:39,520 --> 01:00:40,440
Speaker 4: to Mobile Arena.

1246
01:00:40,560 --> 01:00:43,400
Speaker 5: Las Vegas lost some special surprises and moments you are

1247
01:00:43,520 --> 01:00:45,080
Speaker 5: not going to want to miss.

1248
01:00:45,200 --> 01:00:46,720
Speaker 1: Stream only on Hulu.

1249
01:00:46,760 --> 01:00:49,200
Speaker 5: IHeartRadio Music Festival.

1250
01:00:48,760 --> 01:00:50,480
Speaker 3: And listen on iHeartRadio.

1251
01:00:50,600 --> 01:00:53,320
Speaker 5: The most anticipated live music events

1252
01:00:53,360 --> 01:00:57,080
Speaker 6: Of the year this Friday and Saturday, starting at ten

1253
01:00:57,160 --> 01:00:59,200
Speaker 6: thirty pm Eastern, seven thirty Pacific,