WEBVTT - The Internet Kill Switch 0:00:04.200 --> 0:00:12.400 Get in touch with technology with tex Stuff from Hey there, 0:00:12.440 --> 0:00:15.640 and welcome to tex Stuff. I'm Jonathan Strickland and joining 0:00:15.640 --> 0:00:19.400 me in the studio once again. My good buddy, my comrade, 0:00:19.440 --> 0:00:25.520 compatriot man who what brights things sometimes, I say, Ben 0:00:25.520 --> 0:00:30.639 Bolan from Various Shows. Yes, Jonathan, feels so good to 0:00:30.680 --> 0:00:34.120 be back. Uh, We've got we've got a we've got 0:00:34.120 --> 0:00:38.040 a pretty cool situation going on today. Uh. And and 0:00:38.120 --> 0:00:41.320 this is a fascinating topic, so I'm really happy for 0:00:41.360 --> 0:00:43.760 the opportunity to talk about it with you. Yeah. Once again. 0:00:43.880 --> 0:00:47.400 I I opened up the opportunity for Ben to choose 0:00:47.400 --> 0:00:49.559 whatever topic. I gave him a list of topics, and 0:00:49.600 --> 0:00:51.520 he gave me a choice that wasn't on the list. 0:00:51.880 --> 0:00:56.120 I'm sorry, No, that's good. Uh. But you came back 0:00:56.120 --> 0:01:00.240 and said, how about we talk about the internet kill 0:01:00.280 --> 0:01:03.640 switch or an internet kill switch? As it turns out, 0:01:03.680 --> 0:01:09.759 there's not just one, although it's not exactly as simple. 0:01:09.920 --> 0:01:12.280 In fact, it's nowhere near as simple as a physical 0:01:12.280 --> 0:01:15.280 switch that you're like, hey, I can remember to turn 0:01:15.280 --> 0:01:17.760 off the internet before you go out to right, like 0:01:17.959 --> 0:01:20.280 before you leave the room, turn off the internet. That's 0:01:20.520 --> 0:01:23.040 it's not like that. It's not I t crowd where 0:01:23.400 --> 0:01:28.000 you've got a little box. Right, This gen is the Internet. 0:01:28.120 --> 0:01:31.960 It's not that it's not that good, but I thank 0:01:32.000 --> 0:01:36.760 you for your your kindness. Um. So, the so the 0:01:36.840 --> 0:01:42.520 kill switch is, in general, it's a concept that a party, 0:01:42.720 --> 0:01:46.360 most often a government, but not necessarily because we'll talk 0:01:46.400 --> 0:01:48.920 about an example in the United States that did not 0:01:49.040 --> 0:01:53.680 involve directly a government agency, but a Usually it's a 0:01:53.720 --> 0:02:00.680 government alex to restrict or perhaps completely eliminate access to 0:02:00.840 --> 0:02:06.440 the Internet in response to something. Right. Yes, So this 0:02:06.520 --> 0:02:10.680 differs a little bit from filtering. Yeah, because filtering is 0:02:10.720 --> 0:02:15.840 sort of a passive, continual process that uh, you know, 0:02:16.040 --> 0:02:19.280 if it goes well in most countries but not all, Uh, 0:02:19.560 --> 0:02:22.280 you won't really learn about it, just won't be able 0:02:22.320 --> 0:02:24.840 to get to a certain website. So a great example 0:02:24.880 --> 0:02:27.720 of that is China with a great firewall of China, right, 0:02:28.120 --> 0:02:29.880 And they call it a firewall, but really it's a 0:02:29.880 --> 0:02:32.520 web filter, and it's the whole idea is that it 0:02:32.560 --> 0:02:37.640 filters out things that the Chinese government finds objectionable and 0:02:37.800 --> 0:02:40.800 does not wish the Chinese citizenship to have access to. 0:02:41.639 --> 0:02:44.359 And uh and in that case, that is an ongoing 0:02:44.440 --> 0:02:47.080 situation and we're gonna talk a little bit about that, 0:02:47.160 --> 0:02:49.400 and a little bit about a few others, as well 0:02:49.440 --> 0:02:53.840 as the more, um you know, kind of temporary but 0:02:53.840 --> 0:02:58.680 but equally terrifying uses of shutting down Internet access for 0:02:58.840 --> 0:03:03.920 one reason or another. And generally speaking, the justifications for 0:03:03.960 --> 0:03:11.119 this fall under various versions of national security, but there 0:03:11.160 --> 0:03:16.200 are frequently and I would argue, uh, in most cases, 0:03:16.280 --> 0:03:22.200 justifiably criticisms of that approach, that perhaps there are other 0:03:22.280 --> 0:03:27.560 motivations at play besides trying to protect security, even if 0:03:27.560 --> 0:03:31.000 they're not intended. They may be, they may there may 0:03:31.000 --> 0:03:35.800 be undertones of that. Absolutely absolutely, because public safety would 0:03:35.800 --> 0:03:40.320 be another uh, sort of umbrella term. And I don't 0:03:40.360 --> 0:03:43.320 want to be too cynical with this, but I think 0:03:43.360 --> 0:03:45.720 we can all be honest, ladies and gentlemen when we 0:03:45.800 --> 0:03:51.800 say that national security has an increasingly vague definition depending 0:03:51.880 --> 0:03:56.160 upon which state uses the phrase. Yeah, I would argue 0:03:56.200 --> 0:03:58.840 that almost every state that uses the phrase national security 0:03:58.880 --> 0:04:02.120 keeps it purposefully vay because you well, I mean, for 0:04:02.160 --> 0:04:06.280 one thing, it's impossible to anticipate everything, So I can 0:04:06.320 --> 0:04:09.400 feel some sympathy for that in that respect, and the 0:04:09.440 --> 0:04:12.760 idea that if it's my job to ensure the protection 0:04:13.040 --> 0:04:15.920 of a nation's people. I don't know how much sleep 0:04:15.960 --> 0:04:19.960 I'm getting, but but then you know there it is 0:04:20.200 --> 0:04:23.120 entirely possible because we've seen it time and again to 0:04:23.480 --> 0:04:27.640 air too far on the side of uh, you know, 0:04:27.760 --> 0:04:31.320 of of trying to protect people. And I would also 0:04:31.480 --> 0:04:36.920 argue that eliminating a massive means of communication does far 0:04:37.040 --> 0:04:41.800 worse to endanger people than uh than not doing that. 0:04:41.960 --> 0:04:44.560 Like that that you're not really promoting public safety by 0:04:44.560 --> 0:04:47.320 cutting off communication. Yeah, I really wanted to get your 0:04:47.320 --> 0:04:50.760 thoughts on this because you're our tech expert or a texpert. 0:04:50.839 --> 0:04:53.760 That's way easier to say it. Just so everyone knows. 0:04:54.000 --> 0:04:57.159 Our producer hopefully cut out the four times I tried 0:04:57.200 --> 0:05:01.120 to say expert, and we're not gonna if I had 0:05:01.120 --> 0:05:03.640 bloopers on this show, that those would go at the 0:05:03.720 --> 0:05:06.720 end of this episode. But I don't do that, all right, 0:05:06.800 --> 0:05:09.840 So the reason that I want to hear about this 0:05:09.880 --> 0:05:14.719 is because it sounds like almost this villainous James Bond 0:05:14.960 --> 0:05:17.279 type of thing. You know, I'm going to shut down 0:05:17.320 --> 0:05:21.800 the Internet unless you give me one billion dollars. But 0:05:21.800 --> 0:05:26.480 but you raised a fantastic point um, which is that 0:05:27.320 --> 0:05:30.880 this has not only been an idea. That's that's a 0:05:30.880 --> 0:05:33.000 little older than a lot of people might think. Sure, 0:05:33.200 --> 0:05:37.880 but it's by no means an uncommon thing. It's their 0:05:38.040 --> 0:05:41.279 precedents for this, right, Oh, there's so many. So we're 0:05:41.320 --> 0:05:45.520 gonna start with nations other than our own. But don't worry, 0:05:45.520 --> 0:05:48.760 we will get to the United States because that you know, 0:05:49.279 --> 0:05:51.840 I think in particular, you're talking about a country that 0:05:51.920 --> 0:05:57.120 prides itself on certain principles, and it's very difficult to 0:05:58.120 --> 0:06:02.000 UH to to take this idea and have it mesh 0:06:02.120 --> 0:06:04.960 with those principles. Right. So, but before we get to that, 0:06:05.040 --> 0:06:08.279 let's talk about some other countries where, at least from 0:06:08.320 --> 0:06:13.360 the perspective of our position, we would say it's pretty 0:06:13.360 --> 0:06:18.560 cut and dry that this is a draconian approach. So again, 0:06:18.560 --> 0:06:21.680 this is from the perspective of two Americans. So we're 0:06:21.680 --> 0:06:25.000 sitting we're sitting in a pretty big seat of privilege here. 0:06:25.720 --> 0:06:28.599 But North Korea is the first example I was going 0:06:28.640 --> 0:06:33.200 to point out. And North Korea, that is, if you 0:06:33.240 --> 0:06:36.839 want to talk about a nation that is very much 0:06:36.920 --> 0:06:41.080 concerned with the control of access to the Internet, it's 0:06:41.120 --> 0:06:45.360 hard to find a better representative than North Korea, because, 0:06:45.400 --> 0:06:47.839 first of all, UH let me, let me go through 0:06:47.839 --> 0:06:49.480 what you have to be able to do in order 0:06:49.520 --> 0:06:52.120 to have access to the internet in North Korea. Alright, alright, 0:06:52.120 --> 0:06:55.080 walking through it. Okay, So yours is in the North 0:06:55.160 --> 0:06:57.760 Korea and you're hoping at one point to connect to 0:06:57.760 --> 0:06:59.760 the internet. Well, first, you have to obtain a license 0:06:59.800 --> 0:07:02.920 to own a personal computer. It's like having a license 0:07:02.960 --> 0:07:05.520 to own a weapon. You have to You can't you 0:07:05.560 --> 0:07:07.360 can't go out and buy a computer on your own. 0:07:07.400 --> 0:07:12.080 You have to get permission to own a computer first. Secondly, 0:07:12.120 --> 0:07:13.920 you have to be lucky enough to be able to 0:07:14.000 --> 0:07:17.440 buy one, because the only state sanctioned source for computers 0:07:17.640 --> 0:07:20.280 is a company called Morning Panda, which is owned by 0:07:20.320 --> 0:07:25.440 the government. Um. If, however, there's a caveat here, if 0:07:25.440 --> 0:07:28.080 you're somehow fortunate enough to be one of the elite 0:07:28.320 --> 0:07:30.880 in North Korea, you can skirt around this and you 0:07:30.920 --> 0:07:34.200 could actually buy an unsanctioned computer like an like an 0:07:34.240 --> 0:07:37.200 Apple computer, like a top of the line computer that 0:07:37.400 --> 0:07:39.880 is essentially smuggled in for you. So these are rules 0:07:39.920 --> 0:07:42.480 for the average joke, This is these are the rules 0:07:42.520 --> 0:07:48.000 for for of the population in North Korea. So if 0:07:48.040 --> 0:07:51.120 you're in that point zero zero one, then you're you, 0:07:51.120 --> 0:07:54.920 you can ignore these other rules. Uh. But third is 0:07:54.960 --> 0:07:58.160 that you would need to connect to that to a 0:07:58.240 --> 0:08:01.840 network which is not the Internet. It's called the intra 0:08:01.960 --> 0:08:06.239 neet or it's their internet called Kwangmyong which means bright Star. 0:08:07.560 --> 0:08:12.680 So that's an intranet. It's internally based in North Korea 0:08:12.760 --> 0:08:16.760 without connection to the outside Internet. But it looks kind 0:08:16.800 --> 0:08:19.640 of like the Internet, particularly the Internet in the late nineties. 0:08:20.160 --> 0:08:24.560 Um it's running on Microsoft software that had been pirated 0:08:24.840 --> 0:08:28.920 from Japanese sources, so it's it's all like the servers 0:08:28.920 --> 0:08:32.400 are all internal servers, not connecting outside um by. In 0:08:32.520 --> 0:08:34.960 order to do that, you need to be probably either 0:08:35.000 --> 0:08:36.960 in a major city or in a university. Those are 0:08:36.960 --> 0:08:39.680 the only places to have Internet connectivity. And if you 0:08:39.800 --> 0:08:41.920 aren't in either of those two places, you're probably out 0:08:41.920 --> 0:08:44.640 of luck because internal travel in North Korea is not 0:08:44.720 --> 0:08:49.680 permitted without a special dispensation. Yeah. So in other words, 0:08:49.720 --> 0:08:53.080 if you're not, they're already you may be stuck. All right, 0:08:53.200 --> 0:08:56.400 So we've got all that taken care of. Now, let's 0:08:56.400 --> 0:08:59.240 say that you are one of the elite, and you 0:08:59.240 --> 0:09:04.880 you you merit certain consideration because of whatever whatever your 0:09:04.880 --> 0:09:07.360 position happens to me, maybe you're maybe you're like ahead 0:09:07.360 --> 0:09:10.560 of a propaganda or something along those lines. If you 0:09:10.640 --> 0:09:13.880 are one of those very few people you can access 0:09:13.920 --> 0:09:19.480 the actual Internet with two other caveats. Well, first, first 0:09:19.480 --> 0:09:21.480 of all, here's how few there are, right, So there's 0:09:21.559 --> 0:09:25.480 twenty five million people living in North Korea. North Korea 0:09:25.520 --> 0:09:30.959 has one thousand, twenty four I P addresses. In the 0:09:31.040 --> 0:09:33.640 United States, where we have more than three million people, 0:09:33.679 --> 0:09:37.640 we have more than a billion IP addresses. So that 0:09:37.679 --> 0:09:40.760 tells you that we're talking about a tiny number of people. 0:09:41.960 --> 0:09:48.040 And the the line leading into North Korea comes from China, 0:09:48.280 --> 0:09:55.320 so your feed of the Internet is also behind the firewall. Yeah, 0:09:55.360 --> 0:09:56.960 so you are one of the few people who can 0:09:57.000 --> 0:09:59.400 access it. You're accessing it through a line that has 0:09:59.400 --> 0:10:02.920 passed through China. You might there may be a couple 0:10:02.960 --> 0:10:07.959 of satellite sources of access which would not be limited 0:10:08.000 --> 0:10:12.680 to the Chinese firewall. But uh yeah, And from what 0:10:12.760 --> 0:10:14.520 I've heard, or at least from what people have been 0:10:14.520 --> 0:10:18.760 able to suss out, the access is super slow. Yeah, 0:10:18.840 --> 0:10:22.079 I've heard that too. Um, we're talking about the dial 0:10:22.160 --> 0:10:25.280 up sound effect. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There have been like 0:10:25.320 --> 0:10:28.520 cyber cafes, some of them are still using dial up modems, 0:10:28.559 --> 0:10:32.640 so it's not it's not a cable or or fiber 0:10:32.679 --> 0:10:36.319 optics system or anything like that. So that that's an 0:10:36.320 --> 0:10:40.360 extreme example. And of course, obviously if the North Korean 0:10:40.480 --> 0:10:44.040 government had decided that this is not a um, not 0:10:44.200 --> 0:10:46.120 something they want anyone to have access to, it would 0:10:46.120 --> 0:10:48.120 be relatively easy to shut it down because there's just 0:10:48.160 --> 0:10:51.400 that one entry. Yeah, other than I guess mobile phones 0:10:51.480 --> 0:10:53.960 that are smuggled in maybe yeah, but even then you 0:10:54.000 --> 0:10:56.959 could as uh, you know, as a government shut down 0:10:57.040 --> 0:11:00.960 the cellular systems. So in that case it's kind of 0:11:00.960 --> 0:11:04.440 a scorched earth policy, but you can do it. So anyway, 0:11:04.480 --> 0:11:07.360 that's that's probably the most extreme case, apart from maybe 0:11:07.440 --> 0:11:10.600 countries that are so they're in such a developing stage 0:11:10.600 --> 0:11:13.000 as far as the Internet is concerned, that they haven't 0:11:13.080 --> 0:11:17.240 laid out an infrastructure fully yet. Those cases it may 0:11:17.280 --> 0:11:20.839 be a little different. I'm looking mostly at at countries 0:11:21.000 --> 0:11:25.079 that have had the opportunity to roll on and yeah, 0:11:25.120 --> 0:11:27.720 so that that's an extreme example, but it also shows 0:11:27.760 --> 0:11:30.800 how easily that could happen in that in that state, 0:11:30.880 --> 0:11:33.760 in the DPRK or North Korea, just to cut off 0:11:33.800 --> 0:11:38.040 that just that one point. Uh. Yeah. Now, whereas China 0:11:38.200 --> 0:11:41.200 is another great example that we've already talked about the firewall. 0:11:41.320 --> 0:11:46.560 So the Internet in China is is largely censored. Um, 0:11:46.600 --> 0:11:50.240 there are ways for citizens who are savvy to get 0:11:50.280 --> 0:11:54.479 around that, although it's not a safe thing to do necessarily. 0:11:54.840 --> 0:11:58.680 We're talking about to or something. Yeah, and you can 0:11:58.800 --> 0:12:01.520 um yeah, and lots of proxies. Yeah, you can. You 0:12:01.559 --> 0:12:06.920 can potentially get around some of that, although the danger 0:12:07.000 --> 0:12:12.160 of doing so is not is not insignificant. Uh. China 0:12:12.240 --> 0:12:16.320 has also been known to use regionalized localized kill switches 0:12:16.760 --> 0:12:20.000 in provinces where there is unrest, so, in other words, 0:12:20.600 --> 0:12:25.520 shutting down the the infrastructure that allows for communication across 0:12:25.559 --> 0:12:29.839 the Internet, but only in localized areas. We're not talking 0:12:29.920 --> 0:12:33.400 like a countrywide blackout, so this would be like maybe 0:12:33.800 --> 0:12:39.840 unrest and Tibet leads to us shut down. Yes, those 0:12:39.840 --> 0:12:42.160 are good examples, Yeah, exactly. It's the sort of thing 0:12:42.160 --> 0:12:45.679 where if the government wants to impede the ability of 0:12:45.720 --> 0:12:50.040 any protesters or voices of opposition, they can shut down 0:12:50.080 --> 0:12:54.280 the communication lines. Uh and then uh kind of kind 0:12:54.280 --> 0:12:56.720 of squash that that way, or at least at least 0:12:56.880 --> 0:13:01.199 decrease their impact. There are other example. I mean in 0:13:01.559 --> 0:13:05.439 Egypt in two thousand eleven, there was a pretty infamous 0:13:06.000 --> 0:13:10.120 result of of the the president or the outgoing president 0:13:10.160 --> 0:13:14.760 of Egypt shutting down the various services or sharing on 0:13:14.880 --> 0:13:18.160 access to various services as a means of trying to 0:13:18.160 --> 0:13:25.080 to squash protests in opposition. Syria two thousand twelve. Now 0:13:25.200 --> 0:13:29.240 this one's interesting. You know, I don't know much about 0:13:29.280 --> 0:13:32.360 this one, all right, So this one's right up your alley, Ben, 0:13:32.880 --> 0:13:34.840 this is the stuff they don't want you to know. Episode. 0:13:36.200 --> 0:13:39.800 So Syria two thousand twelve, Syria is in the middle 0:13:39.920 --> 0:13:45.240 of a civil war. Internet access in Syria blacks out. 0:13:45.480 --> 0:13:48.800 It's knocked offline. So like it's like the entire country 0:13:48.800 --> 0:13:53.880 just suddenly disappears from online. It's goes black. Both sides 0:13:54.880 --> 0:14:00.360 accused the other side of sabotaging the systems so that 0:14:01.160 --> 0:14:06.120 no one could use the Internet. However, according to one 0:14:06.480 --> 0:14:11.840 Mr Snowdon, neither side was responsible, and in fact it 0:14:11.920 --> 0:14:15.520 was the n ess A which was attempting to infiltrate 0:14:15.640 --> 0:14:21.240 Syrian web servers to insert malware for surveillance purposes and 0:14:21.440 --> 0:14:27.040 accidentally knock their servers offline. And then we're given just 0:14:27.200 --> 0:14:33.000 enough authority to hide their tracks rather than actually help 0:14:33.320 --> 0:14:38.440 Syria get back online. Wow, so that's a that's even more. 0:14:38.520 --> 0:14:41.200 That's the states are so much higher. I'm sorry I'm stuttering, 0:14:41.240 --> 0:14:44.200 but this is mind boggling to me. This is a 0:14:44.280 --> 0:14:49.280 state shutting down another countries internet, not not on purpose, 0:14:49.320 --> 0:14:52.280 but that's kind of not important. Really, That's kind of 0:14:52.280 --> 0:14:55.640 the scariest part. It's actually really like because then you 0:14:55.640 --> 0:14:58.040 start thinking, like, not only do you have amazing power, 0:14:58.120 --> 0:15:01.440 but you're operating on a three stooge is level. You know, 0:15:01.520 --> 0:15:04.000 your job is to install this one thing, and you've 0:15:04.120 --> 0:15:07.160 you've not You've burnt the building down around you, right, 0:15:07.200 --> 0:15:09.480 and like there's one wall standing and it's got the 0:15:09.520 --> 0:15:11.400 thing you were supposed to install on it, but the 0:15:11.440 --> 0:15:15.000 rest of the building is gone. The last the door 0:15:15.320 --> 0:15:18.680 and the new door knob right exactly. That's it. And uh, 0:15:18.720 --> 0:15:23.640 you know, this is obviously not the same sort of 0:15:23.640 --> 0:15:26.320 thing as the kill switches we're talking about in other cases, 0:15:26.320 --> 0:15:30.000 because again, that was not the intention at the time. 0:15:30.160 --> 0:15:33.600 And this is again according to Snowdon, who gave an 0:15:33.600 --> 0:15:37.240 interview with Wired and talked about this. So you know, 0:15:37.360 --> 0:15:41.200 I haven't actually read any documents that directly link an 0:15:41.360 --> 0:15:44.760 say to this event in Syria. But according to Snowdon, 0:15:44.880 --> 0:15:48.000 that is what happened. So so that is something I 0:15:48.040 --> 0:15:53.120 should stress. Yeah, so that that's a great example. Another 0:15:53.120 --> 0:15:57.440 one Russia two thousand fourteen, so very recent. Uh, there 0:15:57.720 --> 0:16:01.280 was a news story in which it was reported that quote, 0:16:01.360 --> 0:16:04.680 Russian Internet service providers will be required to install equipment 0:16:04.960 --> 0:16:08.080 that would make it possible to shut off Russia's access 0:16:08.080 --> 0:16:12.560 to the global Internet in the event of an emergency. 0:16:12.640 --> 0:16:16.720 And uh. Dmitri Peskov, who was press secretary to a 0:16:16.800 --> 0:16:21.120 certain Vladimir Putin, said that there was no intention to 0:16:21.320 --> 0:16:26.920 isolate Russian users from the global Internet. Uh. He explained 0:16:26.920 --> 0:16:29.840 to the Interfax news agency that the discussions will focus 0:16:29.880 --> 0:16:33.360 on the ways to protect it from possible external actions, 0:16:34.360 --> 0:16:40.040 so essentially means of protecting Russia from cyber attacks. Okay, 0:16:40.160 --> 0:16:45.280 whether from hacker groups or from dash. There's there's also 0:16:45.360 --> 0:16:48.200 a possibility here that might be that that might be 0:16:48.280 --> 0:16:52.520 apropos for this situation, which is uh, financial catastrophes which 0:16:52.520 --> 0:16:56.840 you're shutting down an Internet connection is a great way 0:16:56.880 --> 0:17:00.520 to shut down regular trade. I'm sure it's also a 0:17:00.560 --> 0:17:03.840 criminal act. Yeah. Well, and the way I think of 0:17:03.880 --> 0:17:06.440 it is and this also ties back. I'm sure we'll 0:17:06.520 --> 0:17:08.800 stress this again at the end of the episode that 0:17:08.960 --> 0:17:12.119 shutting down the internet. The Internet we depend so heavily 0:17:12.160 --> 0:17:15.439 on it, not just for communications, but for uh for 0:17:15.440 --> 0:17:21.560 for trade, you know, for finances, that doing doing something 0:17:21.600 --> 0:17:25.800 as drastic as shutting it down would be disastrous, Even 0:17:26.040 --> 0:17:30.200 if you could argue that it was justifiable, and even 0:17:30.280 --> 0:17:34.159 if it was for a short amount of time, the 0:17:34.200 --> 0:17:38.439 consequences of that action would be so tremendous as to 0:17:39.160 --> 0:17:43.959 probably in hindsight say that was probably that was not 0:17:44.000 --> 0:17:46.159 the right thing. Today there's a better way, Yeah, but 0:17:46.200 --> 0:17:48.360 well we'll talk more about that. So so those are 0:17:48.400 --> 0:17:51.200 some of the other countries we talk. There's also there's 0:17:51.320 --> 0:17:55.160 ongoing issues with Burundi um where there have been some 0:17:55.320 --> 0:17:59.760 discussions about using various means to shut down the ability 0:18:00.000 --> 0:18:03.040 are people to use Twitter and other social media sites. 0:18:04.040 --> 0:18:07.080 But there are a lot of different examples that there 0:18:07.080 --> 0:18:11.440 were examples during the incidents with Russia and the Ukraine. 0:18:11.800 --> 0:18:15.440 I mean, there's just tons of different examples around the world. 0:18:15.960 --> 0:18:19.160 And meanwhile, here in the United States, we often think 0:18:19.240 --> 0:18:21.880 of ourselves, We Americans often think of ourselves as sort 0:18:21.880 --> 0:18:25.480 of the the paragons of free speech and our country 0:18:25.680 --> 0:18:27.960 value that's what our country was founded on, one of 0:18:28.000 --> 0:18:31.800 the principles we were founded on, and that therefore, you know, 0:18:32.240 --> 0:18:38.560 we have a really good foundation for fair means of communication. Yeah, 0:18:38.600 --> 0:18:41.520 but the right to a free speech, like I don't 0:18:41.600 --> 0:18:44.800 agree with you, but I will defend to the death. 0:18:46.240 --> 0:18:52.320 So it sounds like, you know, we would never mess 0:18:52.359 --> 0:18:55.480 around with that sort of thing. However, Yeah, we've got 0:18:55.480 --> 0:18:58.240 a nice long history of actually putting it into policy 0:18:58.320 --> 0:19:00.760 that we can totally that by we, I mean the 0:19:00.800 --> 0:19:04.080 president could totally mess with things. I mean, this goes 0:19:04.119 --> 0:19:06.280 all the way back to the age of the telegraph 0:19:06.960 --> 0:19:09.120 where the president, I think it was like nineteen eighteen, 0:19:09.119 --> 0:19:12.359 where the president was given the authority in times of 0:19:12.440 --> 0:19:18.439 war and other major catastrophes, be able to direct the 0:19:18.560 --> 0:19:22.960 use of the telegraph systems so that essentially superseding any 0:19:23.000 --> 0:19:26.520 other use of them and saying either they need to 0:19:26.760 --> 0:19:30.879 be dedicated specifically for whatever or shut down so that 0:19:30.880 --> 0:19:33.720 they can't be used for anything else. So yeah, so 0:19:33.840 --> 0:19:37.320 that's that's a startling thing because we know that this 0:19:37.400 --> 0:19:40.640 is the Communications Act, right, Well, that would bet that's 0:19:40.680 --> 0:19:43.640 the next one. The next one is the Communications Act, 0:19:43.680 --> 0:19:47.199 which goes even further, right, Yeah, which is says, uh, 0:19:47.200 --> 0:19:50.560 this was by FDR, I believe, right, And this is 0:19:50.680 --> 0:19:56.200 control over the media. Uh. This this gives like electronic 0:19:56.240 --> 0:20:00.439 communication in any and all forms. Yeah. And this is 0:20:00.520 --> 0:20:03.680 one where there was argument for a long time about 0:20:03.680 --> 0:20:06.880 whether or not the Internet falls under this particular category. 0:20:08.280 --> 0:20:11.919 It's kind of in a parallel argument to net neutrality, 0:20:12.359 --> 0:20:17.680 whether you can qualify the Internet as a utility or 0:20:17.720 --> 0:20:22.320 another a regulated uh entity, kind of like the the 0:20:22.400 --> 0:20:26.440 telephone industry, that sort of stuff. Um, And it's it's 0:20:27.280 --> 0:20:31.359 related but not identical to that. Obviously, there there are differences, 0:20:31.840 --> 0:20:36.399 big differences between the two. But um. Nevertheless, some people 0:20:36.440 --> 0:20:41.920 say that this act gives the president the explicit means 0:20:41.960 --> 0:20:46.440 to be able to direct any kind of mass communication 0:20:46.640 --> 0:20:51.399 within the United States for whatever purpose, if we're talking 0:20:51.400 --> 0:20:55.199 about a time of war or other major event that 0:20:55.280 --> 0:20:59.680 threatens national security. Right, And it's also illegal for anyone 0:20:59.800 --> 0:21:04.480 to not help. Yes, that's one of the scary things. 0:21:04.520 --> 0:21:09.680 And it also it also absolves any communications company of 0:21:09.760 --> 0:21:13.560 any um legal proceedings to be pursued against it in 0:21:13.560 --> 0:21:17.439 the wake of this. So, in other words, using modern examples, 0:21:17.920 --> 0:21:20.720 if if the President of the United States goes to 0:21:20.800 --> 0:21:23.240 A T and T and says, shut it all down, 0:21:23.840 --> 0:21:27.360 you know, Walter Peck style, And they flipped the big 0:21:27.400 --> 0:21:29.080 switch and all and all the A T and T 0:21:29.200 --> 0:21:32.639 stuff goes offline. A T and T customers would not 0:21:32.800 --> 0:21:35.560 be allowed to sue A. T and T for that 0:21:35.640 --> 0:21:39.280 because under this Act, A T and T is not 0:21:39.400 --> 0:21:42.960 held responsible. They were they were following the rules as 0:21:43.040 --> 0:21:47.000 laid out by the Act, and uh, therefore they can't 0:21:47.040 --> 0:21:50.399 be sued. Now, you might be able to bring some 0:21:50.480 --> 0:21:53.240 sort of lawsuit against the government and try and have 0:21:53.320 --> 0:21:56.920 the law changed, but you wouldn't, you know, under this law, 0:21:57.040 --> 0:21:59.920 you they would. They're like, listen, you know, it is 0:22:00.080 --> 0:22:03.440 the law that we were following. And again it's nineteen 0:22:03.680 --> 0:22:09.400 thirty four. So uh. Meanwhile, so even if you, even 0:22:09.400 --> 0:22:13.480 if you think the Internet is is, um not beholden 0:22:13.520 --> 0:22:16.920 to the same set of rules. Uh. In two thousand 0:22:16.880 --> 0:22:20.439 and six, that all became moot because that's when the 0:22:20.480 --> 0:22:24.520 Department of Homeland Security adopted a policy that is called 0:22:24.640 --> 0:22:27.840 Standing Operating Procedure three oh three or s o P. 0:22:28.080 --> 0:22:31.240 Three oh three. And before we came in here, Ben 0:22:31.240 --> 0:22:34.520 and I had had a brief little exchange, where I said, 0:22:34.520 --> 0:22:38.200 how terrifying is it to think of this as standard 0:22:38.320 --> 0:22:43.200 operating procedure? Right? Yes? Yeah? And and furthermore, how terrifying 0:22:43.320 --> 0:22:47.240 is it to wonder about the other three hundreds something? 0:22:47.320 --> 0:22:51.480 That's yeah, and that's assuming there weren't more after three 0:22:51.480 --> 0:22:55.040 oh three? Right? What else are we in violation of 0:22:55.280 --> 0:22:58.800 s OP for nineteen or something. It's just a small tangent. 0:22:58.880 --> 0:23:01.119 This reminds me of when I was in London with 0:23:01.160 --> 0:23:04.159 my wife and we saw a sign that said no 0:23:04.359 --> 0:23:07.439 busking in the London underground, which will come back to 0:23:07.480 --> 0:23:09.720 in just a second, but in the London underground, And 0:23:09.760 --> 0:23:11.320 I turned to my wife and said, what is it? 0:23:11.400 --> 0:23:14.679 And she said, I don't know. Are we doing it? 0:23:14.800 --> 0:23:17.360 Like I sure hope not, because there's because it's apparently 0:23:17.400 --> 0:23:20.960 against the law and we could get fine. So and obviously, 0:23:21.000 --> 0:23:23.159 I mean, for those who don't know, busking is is 0:23:23.160 --> 0:23:25.960 public performance of various types of asking for money in 0:23:25.960 --> 0:23:28.880 return for public performance. But at the time we had 0:23:28.920 --> 0:23:30.840 no idea. So it's like that sort of thing, like 0:23:30.880 --> 0:23:34.480 are we violating something? And and here's the deal. This 0:23:34.560 --> 0:23:41.280 particular standard operating procedure was adopted pretty much in secrecy right, Like, 0:23:41.359 --> 0:23:46.080 there's there's no there's no publicly available record of exactly 0:23:46.720 --> 0:23:51.840 what what what sort of UM situation has to be 0:23:51.880 --> 0:23:55.080 in place in order for the Department of Homeland Security 0:23:55.119 --> 0:23:57.639 to execute s OP three oh three, right, or what 0:23:57.760 --> 0:24:02.359 s sort of oversight governed it? Yeah, yeah, there's there's 0:24:02.400 --> 0:24:04.400 no there's no way for us to know because it's 0:24:04.440 --> 0:24:09.200 not published publicly. Uh, and that that is a real 0:24:09.320 --> 0:24:14.359 issue of of some concern. Now, Um, one thing I 0:24:14.359 --> 0:24:17.399 should say said, s OP three oh three is not 0:24:17.440 --> 0:24:20.919 an Internet kill switch in the same sense as you know, 0:24:21.000 --> 0:24:23.680 something that you would see in North Korea or or whatever. 0:24:23.920 --> 0:24:28.920 It's Um, it's meant to be localized, very much so, 0:24:29.119 --> 0:24:32.080 to the point where the most of the language talks 0:24:32.080 --> 0:24:37.360 about using it to cut off cellular service, mobile service, 0:24:37.800 --> 0:24:42.280 and wireless service within specific areas like a tunnel or 0:24:42.400 --> 0:24:48.480 a bridge or maybe a municipality. Yeah, yeah, maybe. And this, uh, 0:24:48.600 --> 0:24:53.679 this is strange because we know that something like this 0:24:53.760 --> 0:24:58.000 has occurred right in San Francisco, right, and before I 0:24:58.000 --> 0:25:04.560 talk about the San Francisco one, which is extremely problematic. Um. 0:25:04.880 --> 0:25:08.200 The whole reason why this was adopted in two thousand 0:25:08.280 --> 0:25:12.359 six stems from some attacks in London that happened in 0:25:12.359 --> 0:25:15.680 two thousand five. So in July of two thousand five, 0:25:16.200 --> 0:25:21.200 there were the London underground bombings on July seven, about 0:25:21.200 --> 0:25:25.639 eight fifty in the morning in London time. UH. Three 0:25:26.320 --> 0:25:30.119 bombs in three different locations in the London London underground 0:25:30.160 --> 0:25:34.520 system UH exploded within a minute of each other, like 0:25:34.560 --> 0:25:39.560 within fifty seconds, all three had exploded. UH. Fifty two 0:25:39.600 --> 0:25:42.360 civilians were well. There was a fourth one that exploded 0:25:42.440 --> 0:25:45.240