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Speaker 1: I'm Will Lucas and this is black Tech, Green money.

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Speaker 1: Marcus College is the head of Strategy at Wye and Kennedy,

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Speaker 1: New York, and It's also a clinical marketing professor at

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Speaker 1: the Raw School of Business University in Michigan. He's been

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Speaker 1: recognized for his strategic and creative contributions with accolades such

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Speaker 1: as the American Advertising Federation's Advertising Hall of Fame Achievement

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Speaker 1: at Age is forty under forty recipient and Craney's Business

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Speaker 1: forty under forty recipient. Additionally, it's long successful campaigns and

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Speaker 1: major brands such as State Farmed, Google, and The mailand

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Speaker 1: American Music Festival. He also previously led iTunes and Nike

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Speaker 1: Sport Music and Initiatives at Apple, and ran digital strategy

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Speaker 1: for Beyonce. His upcoming book for the culture Hits Shells

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Speaker 1: on May third, and We often throw the word culture

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Speaker 1: around loosely, and as a marketer and brand strategist, Marcus

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Speaker 1: defines for us what it actually means.

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Speaker 2: I think about culture through the lens of a gentleman

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Speaker 2: by the name of a milkyrkrime or the bounding policy

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Speaker 2: of sociology. He said, culture is a system of symbols, values,

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Speaker 2: and norms that demarked who people are and what people

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Speaker 2: like them do. It's through these systems and norms that

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Speaker 2: we translate the world that we identify what's expected of

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Speaker 2: us and what we should be anticipating from people like us.

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Speaker 1: And we've been having this conversation on this podcast about

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Speaker 1: you know, black people leading all global culture. I would

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Speaker 1: like to get your take on this. So if you

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Speaker 1: think about music, if you think about sports, think about food,

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Speaker 1: think about dance. You know, there's this conversation about black

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Speaker 1: people leading in all of these verticals. I would like

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Speaker 1: to get your take on digging deeper on that.

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Speaker 3: What does that mean?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So I think about when we say that, and

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Speaker 2: I agree with that, is that when we talk about

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Speaker 2: black people leading culture, what we mean is the black

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Speaker 2: cultural production becomes the work that people use to express

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Speaker 2: who they are. Right, So, think about the system that

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Speaker 2: Meal Durkheim refers to. There's our identity who we subscribe

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Speaker 2: to be. There are the beliefs and ideologies that govern

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Speaker 2: how we see the world.

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Speaker 4: Right.

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Speaker 2: There are the truths that we hold the world, the

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Speaker 2: stories that we tell ourselves about the world. And because

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Speaker 2: we see the world a certain way, we don a

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Speaker 2: certain apparel, we dress a certain way with certain artifacts,

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Speaker 2: we behave a certain way, we talk a certain way.

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Speaker 2: And because of who we are, how we see the

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Speaker 2: world and how we show up in the world, we

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Speaker 2: consume certain product i e. The movies we watch, the

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Speaker 2: music we listen to, the television shows that we watch,

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Speaker 2: the literature we take in, the dance that we take in,

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Speaker 2: the brands and brand and products that we consume. And

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Speaker 2: what happens is that black culture, the predominant Black culture,

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Speaker 2: the production of predominant black culture, becomes this gravitational pull

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Speaker 2: that people want to use to communicate who they are

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Speaker 2: because of what it signals about the world. And truly,

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Speaker 2: like all marginalized communities really have this ability to take

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Speaker 2: make something out of nothing, right, and we see marginalized

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Speaker 2: communities become sort of the they become the victim of

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Speaker 2: cultural appropriation for that very reason.

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Speaker 3: And just's dig in there.

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Speaker 1: You know what is a good way then to imbue

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Speaker 1: and bed culture into a brand.

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Speaker 2: So I would argue that the best brands are contributors

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Speaker 2: to culture. They lead culture by contributing to it. That is,

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Speaker 2: they contribute to the beliefs, the artifacts the behaviors and

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Speaker 2: the language that make up the group of people. My

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Speaker 2: friend a colgrinz is it this way. You can either

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Speaker 2: lead culture by like driving it. You could sit in

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Speaker 2: front seat by sort of riding along with it, or

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Speaker 2: you can suck tail pipe by trying to copy it. Right,

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Speaker 2: And brands that lead culture are more successful than those

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Speaker 2: who follow and those who kind of ride shotgun just

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Speaker 2: sort of benefits from the afterglow of it. But it's

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Speaker 2: really the brand that lead culture. They contribute to these

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Speaker 2: characteristics of the system that are most successful. You think

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Speaker 2: about brands like Nike, They've brought language to our normal vernacular,

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Speaker 2: like just do it. That's a tagline that came from

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Speaker 2: the agency I worked for, Wydan Kennedy, that people use

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Speaker 2: to communicate who they are in the world and how

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Speaker 2: they operate in the world. Brands like Patagonia right because

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Speaker 2: of what they believe. People use those brands to signal

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Speaker 2: their identity. That is, these brand marks and their communications

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Speaker 2: become extensions or receipts of people's identity. The brands become

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Speaker 2: cultural products. Not just a jacket, not just a phone,

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Speaker 2: not just a car, not just glasses. They are ways

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Speaker 2: by which I communicate who I am to the world,

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Speaker 2: and those brands win often.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'd like you to talk more about that, because

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Speaker 1: I think you have one conversation about how there's this

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Speaker 1: bottom up effect of how you know, peoples, whether they

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Speaker 1: be black people, are the minority or marginalized groups that

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Speaker 1: you talked about who create culture and then they get

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Speaker 1: taken advantage of by companies, brands and et cetera. And

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Speaker 1: then what you just talked about with how brands might

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Speaker 1: contribute to culture and is there a conversation around where

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Speaker 1: people don't want to be sold, but they want to

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Speaker 1: take the maybe the dappor dan approach and take what's

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Speaker 1: already out and flip it, you know. But how but

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Speaker 1: when it comes from a brand, in so many cases

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Speaker 1: it's you know, you're trying to you know, you're trying

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Speaker 1: to pacify me. Are you're trying to take advantage of

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Speaker 1: what we already doing in the street or et cetera.

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Speaker 3: You get my point.

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Speaker 4: I get your point for sure.

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Speaker 2: I think the idea for brands is that we contribute

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Speaker 2: to culture by facilitating community, that instead of sort of

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Speaker 2: it being all about us, is that we identify what

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Speaker 2: are the pain points the points of friction, What are

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Speaker 2: the ambitions and desires of the group people that were

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Speaker 2: trying to activate, and how do we use our resources,

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Speaker 2: our platforms to help people realize that they're going after

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Speaker 2: based on what we know of their beliefs, artifacts, behaviors,

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Speaker 2: and language. So a dapper dand thing is you're taking

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Speaker 2: someone or you are co creating cultural production with someone

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Speaker 2: who's from the community, who knows the community and their

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Speaker 2: cultural characteristics with far greater intimacy than their brand does.

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Speaker 2: And you're giving your resources over to saying, hey, create,

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Speaker 2: do what you do, and do it without sort of

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Speaker 2: the uh, without without the policing that Dapper Dan wants

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Speaker 2: experienced back in the eighties, right giving you freedom do

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Speaker 2: what you do with our marks, and that reworking of that,

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Speaker 2: that reworking of raw material from the brand helps create

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Speaker 2: the cultural product that's representative of dapper dand I mean

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Speaker 2: that's hip hop too. Right before before artists were being

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Speaker 2: sued for using samples that they weren't giving access to,

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Speaker 2: when labels started saying, hey, take the content and actually

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Speaker 2: rework it like they are they are being they're they're

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Speaker 2: they're they're they're being propelled to realize the cultural product

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Speaker 2: that's representative of people like themselves, and brands who understand this,

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Speaker 2: those brands actually do far better than those who don't.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, before we go much for it, I do want

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Speaker 1: to get your take on defining brand versus marks and

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Speaker 1: logos and et cetera. And so because because this does

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Speaker 1: get confused in our social conversations about you know, you

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Speaker 1: ask somebody what is their brand? They show you their logo,

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Speaker 1: and they show you their letterhead, and they show you

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Speaker 1: these things.

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Speaker 3: And I would like.

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Speaker 1: You to have for for folks who don't live this

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Speaker 1: every day, talk about the differences and what confuses people

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Speaker 1: about those things.

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Speaker 2: Man, you're hitting it right on the head. Brand branded

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Speaker 2: brands is that a long history, right. Brands start off

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Speaker 2: as a mark of ownership. In fact, if you translate

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Speaker 2: the word brand into any Romantic or Germanic language, it

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Speaker 2: translates into mark or marca or market.

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Speaker 4: It's a mark, right.

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Speaker 2: And back in the day, you know, if you really

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Speaker 2: if you were raising cattle and you brought your cattle

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Speaker 2: to the market, you would brand it with the branding

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Speaker 2: iron as a way of saying, this cattle belongs to me,

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Speaker 2: so it will be confused with the Lucases.

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Speaker 4: Cattle.

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Speaker 2: It's Collins cattle. But over time brand began to evolve

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Speaker 2: from being this mark of ownership to being a mark

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Speaker 2: of legality that not only do I own this, but

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Speaker 2: I have legal representation over this thing. Then about a

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Speaker 2: century a half later, it became well, it's not enough

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Speaker 2: for this for us to own it and have legal

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Speaker 2: ramifications over it. We also want people to see it

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Speaker 2: and trust us. So that logo, the mark became a

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Speaker 2: trust mark. But then over time it was enough people

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Speaker 2: just to trust the brand, want people to love the brand.

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Speaker 2: So mark became this mark of ownership, became this signifier

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Speaker 2: that conjured up thoughts and feelings.

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Speaker 4: And that's really what brands are at its core.

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Speaker 2: There are identifiable signifiers that conjure up thoughts and feelings, cognitions,

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Speaker 2: and affects on behalf of companies, institutions, products, people, and

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Speaker 2: organizations marks of ownership. And sometimes those marks are literal logos,

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Speaker 2: Sometimes they're audio marks. Sometimes they're aesthetic like you know

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Speaker 2: an apple esthetic, You know who that belongs to? Right,

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Speaker 2: These marks are identifiable, and they're also they contruct these

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Speaker 2: thoughts and feelings that make us feel a certain thing,

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Speaker 2: they emote a certain thing, and therefore remart in clients

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Speaker 2: and only remember it to differentiate it, feel something by it,

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Speaker 2: and therefore pay a premium for it.

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Speaker 1: And you make me think about the importance of us

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Speaker 1: investing in I mean when I say us, I mean

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Speaker 1: black owned companies, minority owned companies, women owned companies, the

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Speaker 1: importance of investing in a brand guide as early as

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Speaker 1: possible when you start a business, because that brand guide

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Speaker 1: defines how we use the mark, what colors we use

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Speaker 1: it in, what it can be sat on. Can I

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Speaker 1: put my logo on top of a picture that has

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Speaker 1: a million colors on it? Or does it have to

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Speaker 1: have a black or solid background behind it? Or this

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Speaker 1: is the tone of voice we use, or this is

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Speaker 1: the language we don't use, the type of imagery we use.

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Speaker 1: So all these things, can you so further it?

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Speaker 4: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: So we want to make sure that the mark is

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Speaker 2: distinctive and that the mark has all of the significance

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Speaker 2: that we wanted to have right, so that it is

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Speaker 2: consistent and its distinctive. But it's not enough for it

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Speaker 2: to look good aesthetically. We have to also think about

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Speaker 2: what does it mean when people see the brand? Mark,

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Speaker 2: what what's conjured up. And it's that ability to transcend

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Speaker 2: sort of physical mark that allows us to transcend the

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Speaker 2: business in which we operate. For instance, if I told

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Speaker 2: you that Nike was starting a hotel, you probably know

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Speaker 2: what that thing looks.

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Speaker 4: Like, like, oh, I totally see the look of it is.

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Speaker 2: I know what the experience is going to be. But

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Speaker 2: if I told you the West End would start We're

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Speaker 2: going to make sneakers, you have no clue what that means.

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Speaker 2: I can't even I can't even see that in my mind,

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Speaker 2: because the West End means hotels.

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Speaker 4: Nike means every human body is an athlete.

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Speaker 2: Nike transcends the category in which they reside, and they

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Speaker 2: operate at an ideological driven as an operator an ideological

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Speaker 2: driven vehicle. And therefore, the brand is more than just

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Speaker 2: the mark. It's the meaning that's embedded in it. And

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Speaker 2: that's not just brands like Nike. I mean, I used

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Speaker 2: to work for Beyonce. Beyonce is the same way, Like

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Speaker 2: we've known that Beyonce believes in or stood for women's

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Speaker 2: empowerment since the days of no No, No, no No

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Speaker 2: to bills to the left to you Ain't Gonna break

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Speaker 2: my soul, like Beyonce has stood for that thing. And

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Speaker 2: so while we know Beyonce as an artist and in

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Speaker 2: all the many ways that she is artistic, the meaning

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Speaker 2: of Beyonce transcends those things.

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Speaker 4: So as we pay.

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Speaker 2: Mine to the mark of ownership, as you mentioned, make

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Speaker 2: sure that our brand guidelines are strong, the language is strong,

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Speaker 2: that it's consistent. We have to also make sure that

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Speaker 2: it's the meaning that is going to conjure up the

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Speaker 2: thoughts and feelings that we want people to walk away with,

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Speaker 2: because it's the meaning that's going to inform how people

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Speaker 2: behave in the long run.

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Speaker 1: What do you think about when people say or ask

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Speaker 1: what is your brand? Just in the gy not you specifically,

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Speaker 1: but when somebody's asked about what is your brand? What

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Speaker 1: do you think about?

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Speaker 2: The first thing I think about when people said what

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Speaker 2: is your brand? My translation is that is what is

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Speaker 2: your meaning? What do you mean? Because what do you

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Speaker 2: intend to mean? What do you stand for?

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Speaker 4: Right?

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Speaker 2: If we talk about brand, we use this vernacular all

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Speaker 2: the time. We say the brand stands for this. What

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Speaker 2: we really mean is the brand stands in for this,

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Speaker 2: The brand mark stands in for these cognitive and effective

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Speaker 2: associations that we have. So someone says, what does your

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Speaker 2: brand mean? Or what is your brand? What is your brand?

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Speaker 2: They're really asking what does your brand mean? What does

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Speaker 2: it mean? And what are the products that you bring

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Speaker 2: to market that are demonstrative.

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Speaker 4: Of that meaning?

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Speaker 2: And truly, I mean, like if you go back to

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Speaker 2: the original question you asked about, but what is coach culture?

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Speaker 2: Is this system and that system that we use that

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Speaker 2: is a meaning making system. It's through those cultural lenses

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Speaker 2: that we translate the world and make meaning. That's why

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Speaker 2: for some akwa's leather, but of it's the deity, and

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Speaker 2: for some it's dinner, or for some a rug is

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Speaker 2: a place of worship, for others it's decor for some place.

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Speaker 4: It's a souvenir.

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Speaker 2: Right, The meanings aren't fixed, but they are translated through

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Speaker 2: our cultural lenses. So as brands, whether you are a

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Speaker 2: Nike or you are an Apple, or you are a startup,

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Speaker 2: we're all bound by the same ramifications of brand what

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Speaker 2: does it mean? And we bring our brand to market

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Speaker 2: or branded products to market, the products are bearing the

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Speaker 2: meaning that the brand is trying to signify.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's really good.

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Speaker 1: I want to get your analysis on this because when

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Speaker 1: I was coming up in my career, I started in radio,

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Speaker 1: and back when I was doing radio, I was DJM

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Speaker 1: parties and all these things. I would get asked often, Hey,

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Speaker 1: can you MCE this event? Can you host this event?

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Speaker 1: Can you come and speak on these different topics about

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Speaker 1: entertainment and etc. And then as I got older, I

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Speaker 1: was like, you know, I don't want to be the

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Speaker 1: guy who hosts or does the panel or mcs this thing.

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Speaker 1: I want to be known more for, you know, my

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Speaker 1: business and technology interests. And so what I had to

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Speaker 1: learn about to stop getting asked was I had to

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Speaker 1: stop participating in things that were not aligned with what

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Speaker 1: I wanted to be seen ass And so when I

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Speaker 1: get asked, even though it might have been interesting, you

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Speaker 1: got to say no because the more I do that,

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Speaker 1: the more it reinforces that that's who I am. But

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Speaker 1: the more I associate I always say it this way,

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Speaker 1: Like Oprah is Oprah because Tom Cruise jumped on her sofa.

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Speaker 3: Oprah is a star.

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Speaker 1: That's the way I say, like Oprah is Oprah because

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Speaker 1: who she associated herself with and who she was seen

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Speaker 1: next to. And so, can you provide an analysis to

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Speaker 1: how people can focus their brand based on I mean that

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Speaker 1: that's my personal experience. But how can I focus my

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Speaker 1: brand so that I curate opportunities for myself in the

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Speaker 1: ways that I want to create opportunities.

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Speaker 2: Well, that's what strategy is meant for the job of

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Speaker 2: strategy is about saying no to things. Of all the

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Speaker 2: main things that we could do, what are we going

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Speaker 2: to say no to so that my intended meaning is

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Speaker 2: aligned what people actually translate. Because as you know me,

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Speaker 2: you work at radio, you know this. It's not what

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Speaker 2: you say, it's what people hear. Right, So as I

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Speaker 2: communicate the brand through explicit messages like ads or implicitly

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Speaker 2: through the brand's behavior, what I intend to mean doesn't

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Speaker 2: align what people actually see what they actually translate.

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Speaker 4: And that truly requires a.

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Speaker 2: Understanding people and then being able to say no to

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Speaker 2: some things and yes to some things. I mean, even

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Speaker 2: you saying I'm going to stop doing hosting and stop

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Speaker 2: you know, djaing parties because I want to be I

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Speaker 2: want to mean more than just that. That is, I

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Speaker 2: want to transcend those activities to have a greater of

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Speaker 2: mental associations. I mean, Domino's Pizza dropped pizza off of

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Speaker 2: their name for a reason. It's like, we don't we're

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Speaker 2: ran in a pizza business, Like that's just one thing

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Speaker 2: we happen to do. Apple dropped off computers from their

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Speaker 2: title because they're we're in a computer business.

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Speaker 4: We just happen to do those things.

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Speaker 2: So for brands who want to operate at a higher level,

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Speaker 2: it requires saying no to the things that may be

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Speaker 2: quick from a money perspective, and saying yes to the

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Speaker 2: things that are going to be the long game. And

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Speaker 2: that's an important part to note the difference between marketing

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Speaker 2: communications and brand or sales. And brand sales are short term, right,

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Speaker 2: So doing that gig quickly, get the bag quickly, great, awesome, right,

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Speaker 2: But in the long run it doesn't help you. But

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Speaker 2: if you say, I'm an say no to this thing

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Speaker 2: right now so I can do this in the long run,

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Speaker 2: that's where brand comes in. The brand is a long

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Speaker 2: term mental association game which requires small interactions over a

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Speaker 2: period of time. So every time you said no to this,

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Speaker 2: said yes to that, you were building the edifice brick

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Speaker 2: by brick for the brand house that you wanted to

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Speaker 2: be known as.

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Speaker 4: I mean you're doing it, doc.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, this is so interesting to me because you

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Speaker 1: brought up Apple and it makes me think of my

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Speaker 1: favorite quote from Steve Jobs, which I've said millions of

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Speaker 1: times on.

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Speaker 3: This podcast, is Steve had this quote that said, you.

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Speaker 1: Can't connect the dots looking forward, you can only connect

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Speaker 1: the dots looking backward. And what I get from that

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Speaker 1: is you wonder why you can be doing, you know,

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Speaker 1: a certain jobs, wondering why you're in certain relationships, wondering

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Speaker 1: why you're doing certain things, and it may not make

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Speaker 1: sense in the moment, but then month later, years later,

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Speaker 1: decades later, you find yourself in the predicament where you

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Speaker 1: got to use those skills or use those experience, those

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Speaker 1: experiences to speak to what you're currently involved in, And

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Speaker 1: had you not gone through those things, you wouldn't be

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Speaker 1: able to maneuver through what you're going through presently. And

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Speaker 1: so my question there is how do you how do

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Speaker 1: you think about analyzing, maybe not reinventing who you are,

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Speaker 1: but evolving who you are based on the experiences that

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Speaker 1: you might have had. Because to my previous point, yes

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Speaker 1: I was dejaying, Yes I hosted, and I didn't want

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Speaker 1: to be seen as that guy.

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Speaker 3: But now I'm using.

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Speaker 1: Those skills to do afro tech and by tech green money.

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Speaker 1: So I think it's not like those things. It was

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Speaker 1: what they were pointed at, where different apples didn't stop

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Speaker 1: doing computers, dominoes didn't stop doing pizza, but it evolved

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Speaker 1: and it helped inform who they would become.

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Speaker 4: That's right. So I think it's driven by this.

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Speaker 2: The context always changes, but the conviction stays the same.

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Speaker 4: Right.

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Speaker 2: I'm grounded and rooted in a way of seeing the world,

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Speaker 2: and when I realized that the world around me changes

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Speaker 2: and therefore while by behavior changes, the north star doesn't.

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Speaker 2: So for instance, I was an engineer. I studied engineering

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Speaker 2: undergrad and then I went to the music business, wrote

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Speaker 2: love songs for a love before going into marketing, communications,

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Speaker 2: and then a career in academia. If you look at

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Speaker 2: that while I was doing it, people like this guy

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Speaker 2: must be crazy. He can't like say, he can't stay

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Speaker 2: true to a thing. But when I look back at it,

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Speaker 2: it becomes very very clear that I loved material science

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Speaker 2: engineering because I thought that polymers were cool. These are

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Speaker 2: carbon chains that are connecting that normally were disparate, now

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Speaker 2: connected to create new things. I love music because I

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Speaker 2: love the idea that people could come together because of

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Speaker 2: a sheer love of a lyric of an artist, of

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Speaker 2: a beat like we can be strangers and you go, dude,

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Speaker 2: that reminds me of of nostalgia ultronum, Like, dude, I

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Speaker 2: love Frank Oshan, me too, Oh my god, best friends.

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Speaker 4: Right. We become connected because of our shared experience with

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Speaker 4: an artist. The same thing with.

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Speaker 2: Good marketing communications that we get connected to a brand

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Speaker 2: because it is a receipt of our identity and we

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Speaker 2: share those identity connections. And for me as a as

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Speaker 2: a professor now and as a marketer, like ultimately I'm

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Speaker 2: in the classroom, We're trying to connect these students two ideas.

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Speaker 2: I mean, that's why I wrote a book to help

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Speaker 2: scale that connectivity. I may have done it in different ways,

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Speaker 2: but ultimately have always been about connecting things to create new,

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Speaker 2: more augmented, more optimized outcomes. And the manifestation changed over time,

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Speaker 2: but at its core, it's always been about connective.

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Speaker 1: A few years ago, Kanye West, upon hearing the news

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Speaker 1: that Lady got Gut was named creative director at Polaroid,

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Speaker 1: he asked me, what the f does lady guy gotta

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Speaker 1: know about cameras? The question was rooted in the belief

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Speaker 1: that the relationship between Gaga and Polaroid wasn't authentic. So

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Speaker 1: how do brands avoid this faux pai and successfully associate

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Speaker 1: themselves with culture?

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Speaker 2: Marcus speaks soon, I mean and Kanye was spot on

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Speaker 2: because in our minds, Koak is just pictures, cameras and film.

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Speaker 4: Kodak doesn't exist.

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Speaker 2: They don't have any conviction, any ideology that governs Kodak

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Speaker 2: in our minds at least. So you take Lady Gaga,

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Speaker 2: who's creative, who's artistic, and then you have a camera

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Speaker 2: brand you go, those teams't don't align. Where brands have

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Speaker 2: opportunities to be a part of culture is where there's

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Speaker 2: ideological congruence. What the brand believes is also shared with

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Speaker 2: what this cultural outcome believes or whether it's people, whether

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Speaker 2: this artist is the world semi the brand does those

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Speaker 2: two things come together. Where this culture is collective of people,

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Speaker 2: they share the same ideology as the brand, the brand

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Speaker 2: activates them accordingly. A great example of it is this McDonald's. Right,

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Speaker 2: here's a brand who was hated on for a long time, right,

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Speaker 2: lots of hate a McDonald's, and we met McDonald's we said, well,

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Speaker 2: why don't you guys stop folks on people who hate you,

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Speaker 2: folks on people who love you. Well, who are those people?

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Speaker 2: They're fans. They're like fans of McDonald's. Ninety six million

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Speaker 2: people show the McDonald's door every single day. Focus on

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Speaker 2: those people, but they know who they were. So we

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Speaker 2: did a research undertaking when we're to go learn about

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Speaker 2: these fans. We found them that they were fan truths

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Speaker 2: within each one of them, within the collective of them.

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Speaker 2: And one of the biggest fan truth is that no

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Speaker 2: matter how big you are, everyone has an order. Oh

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Speaker 2: that's cool. So now the brand activates people based on

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Speaker 2: their order. So what a McDonald's do. They partner with

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Speaker 2: Travis Scott. We partnered with Travis Scott on behalf of

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Speaker 2: McDonald's to take Travis Scott's order the Cactus Jack and

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Speaker 2: make it available to everyone. Right, McDonald's are able to

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Speaker 2: contribute to culture because of what it believes, what it

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Speaker 2: stands for, and the truth around its fans. And it

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Speaker 2: gave McDonald's an authentic way to contribute to culture without

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Speaker 2: it feeling like super sleazy and once the brand's beliefs

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Speaker 2: and the network beliefs overlap. The possibilities are endless so

437
00:23:02,040 --> 00:23:04,000
Speaker 2: long as it meet within that congruence.

438
00:23:04,920 --> 00:23:09,080
Speaker 1: And so so many black technologists, engineers have a thing,

439
00:23:09,280 --> 00:23:12,760
Speaker 1: a wonderful product. And I was talking to Drew Henson,

440
00:23:12,800 --> 00:23:16,919
Speaker 1: who is an engineer who's developing cannabis hardware now, and

441
00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:19,840
Speaker 1: we were talking about the importance of storytelling. And it's

442
00:23:19,880 --> 00:23:22,080
Speaker 1: one thing to be an engineer and have a great

443
00:23:22,119 --> 00:23:25,760
Speaker 1: idea great concept, but your ability to storytell could probably

444
00:23:25,800 --> 00:23:28,760
Speaker 1: dictate your success better than having the product that works.

445
00:23:29,240 --> 00:23:31,440
Speaker 3: So can you talk about that?

446
00:23:31,480 --> 00:23:35,120
Speaker 1: Can you talk about the importance of storytelling and how engineers,

447
00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:38,680
Speaker 1: people who have you spend hours a day coding, how

448
00:23:38,720 --> 00:23:42,440
Speaker 1: they can get better at storytelling to better enable their success.

449
00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:48,320
Speaker 2: Yet, storytelling is the currency of community. Storytelling is how

450
00:23:48,760 --> 00:23:52,240
Speaker 2: culture moves forward and also how it propagates, and we

451
00:23:52,280 --> 00:23:55,560
Speaker 2: tell to tell the next generations of next generations to

452
00:23:55,680 --> 00:23:56,240
Speaker 2: next generation.

453
00:23:56,400 --> 00:23:58,040
Speaker 4: Right, So stories are.

454
00:23:58,160 --> 00:24:03,040
Speaker 2: Probably the most powerful vehicle for information exchange, for cultural

455
00:24:03,280 --> 00:24:09,760
Speaker 2: expectations to be established, and for expectations to be socialized

456
00:24:09,920 --> 00:24:12,600
Speaker 2: through the stories that we tell. So whether you are

457
00:24:12,720 --> 00:24:16,120
Speaker 2: a marketer, whether you are a coder, whether you are

458
00:24:16,440 --> 00:24:20,159
Speaker 2: the person pushing the broom as a janitor, Like, the

459
00:24:20,280 --> 00:24:24,359
Speaker 2: stories align us to what we're about, what we stand for,

460
00:24:24,560 --> 00:24:27,680
Speaker 2: what we believe in, and how we preach the gospel

461
00:24:27,320 --> 00:24:30,240
Speaker 2: to people to bring them in. I mean, it's ultimately

462
00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:31,119
Speaker 2: what this boils down to.

463
00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:31,320
Speaker 4: Right.

464
00:24:31,359 --> 00:24:34,639
Speaker 2: You think about culture being this meaning making vessel the

465
00:24:34,760 --> 00:24:39,600
Speaker 2: system that governs what people like me do, and stories

466
00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:42,840
Speaker 2: become the way by which we communicate what people like

467
00:24:42,960 --> 00:24:45,639
Speaker 2: me do through the folklore through you know, oh this

468
00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:47,320
Speaker 2: happened to me then, or you know what happened to

469
00:24:47,320 --> 00:24:50,000
Speaker 2: so and so. Gossip works really well this way, and

470
00:24:50,080 --> 00:24:52,919
Speaker 2: as we communicate these things, we know what people like

471
00:24:53,040 --> 00:24:56,280
Speaker 2: us ought to do. There's this great story about John F.

472
00:24:56,359 --> 00:24:59,040
Speaker 2: Kennedy on the stage of Action. He says, you know,

473
00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:02,439
Speaker 2: we decide to we have decided as a country to

474
00:25:02,440 --> 00:25:04,280
Speaker 2: go to the moon. Like, that's what we decide to do.

475
00:25:04,840 --> 00:25:07,960
Speaker 2: And he visited a NASA station once and he saw

476
00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:09,800
Speaker 2: a janitor push in the broom and he says to

477
00:25:09,880 --> 00:25:12,080
Speaker 2: the janitor, says, Hi, how's it going. He goes, mister president,

478
00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:14,399
Speaker 2: how are you? He says to the janitor, But what

479
00:25:14,480 --> 00:25:16,399
Speaker 2: are you doing? He says, I'm putting a man on

480
00:25:16,440 --> 00:25:20,320
Speaker 2: the moon. Sir, whoa he's got pushing the button, he's

481
00:25:20,359 --> 00:25:23,800
Speaker 2: sweeping the floors. But even his sweeping the floor is

482
00:25:23,840 --> 00:25:29,440
Speaker 2: that small little thing is contributing to the broader, the

483
00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:33,159
Speaker 2: broader imperative of the community. The same thing goes to

484
00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:35,520
Speaker 2: the stories that we tell. When people tell stories, I

485
00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:37,800
Speaker 2: know what my job is, I know what I'm supposed

486
00:25:37,800 --> 00:25:40,359
Speaker 2: to do within the organization, and we tell stories to

487
00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:43,080
Speaker 2: the community, the community goes I know that that brand

488
00:25:43,119 --> 00:25:45,919
Speaker 2: is for me, or that that output, that product is

489
00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:46,240
Speaker 2: for me.

490
00:25:46,680 --> 00:25:47,280
Speaker 4: Storytelling.

491
00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:50,560
Speaker 2: Storytelling gets us on the same page, and they become

492
00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:53,680
Speaker 2: the way of which we socialize the gospel to bring

493
00:25:53,720 --> 00:25:56,679
Speaker 2: more people to the table. So if you are a coder,

494
00:25:57,080 --> 00:26:00,000
Speaker 2: the better you can articulate why you're coding, the convention,

495
00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:03,760
Speaker 2: the ideology that governs why you do what you do,

496
00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:06,200
Speaker 2: the chances that you're getting more people on board.

497
00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:08,159
Speaker 4: It's far more powerful than not.

498
00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:11,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, you make me think about this guy.

499
00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:14,080
Speaker 1: Paul Judge is a big tag guy out of Atlanta

500
00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:17,200
Speaker 1: who's talked about you know, when you're trying to recruit

501
00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:20,320
Speaker 1: smart engineers or smart engineers don't want to work on

502
00:26:20,359 --> 00:26:23,479
Speaker 1: idiobitti problems. They want to work on meaningful problems. And

503
00:26:23,520 --> 00:26:27,359
Speaker 1: so if you find a way to communicate a north star.

504
00:26:27,920 --> 00:26:29,440
Speaker 1: And this is a question pointing to a question is

505
00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:30,280
Speaker 1: how to define.

506
00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:33,920
Speaker 3: Your north star? How do you figure what is both.

507
00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:36,919
Speaker 1: The importance of getting a strong north star for a

508
00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:40,280
Speaker 1: CEO or it would be CEO and founder, and how

509
00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:43,760
Speaker 1: to define it in a way that can get people excited.

510
00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:44,399
Speaker 3: You know.

511
00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:47,840
Speaker 1: So, maybe my idea is not going to change the world,

512
00:26:48,480 --> 00:26:51,720
Speaker 1: but it's worthy of investment, is worthy of people to

513
00:26:51,720 --> 00:26:54,080
Speaker 1: get behind it. So if it's not going to change

514
00:26:54,119 --> 00:26:56,959
Speaker 1: the world, maybe it's I don't want to throw an

515
00:26:57,000 --> 00:26:59,360
Speaker 1: industry or thing under the bus. So let's just say

516
00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:02,960
Speaker 1: something that's not gonna be revolutionary, but it's functional, you know.

517
00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:05,760
Speaker 3: It's a utility. It helps people's lives be better.

518
00:27:06,119 --> 00:27:08,120
Speaker 1: How can I define my north star in a way

519
00:27:08,160 --> 00:27:10,280
Speaker 1: that gets people excited? Generally speaking?

520
00:27:10,359 --> 00:27:14,639
Speaker 2: Yeah, so it would start with what do you believe?

521
00:27:15,359 --> 00:27:18,560
Speaker 2: It's a belief, like the north star is. It is

522
00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:22,639
Speaker 2: of an ideology that you have, and you communicate that

523
00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:25,240
Speaker 2: ideology to people who see the world of the way

524
00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:25,720
Speaker 2: that you do.

525
00:27:25,840 --> 00:27:28,240
Speaker 4: And those people go, oh, I'm not looking for a job.

526
00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:29,200
Speaker 4: I'm looking for a home.

527
00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:32,520
Speaker 2: Looking on people who are like myself, people who are

528
00:27:32,560 --> 00:27:35,399
Speaker 2: within the same community that I'm in. And if you

529
00:27:35,440 --> 00:27:37,560
Speaker 2: look at some of the biggest case studies of this,

530
00:27:37,920 --> 00:27:40,200
Speaker 2: it becomes very very clear and think about from a

531
00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:43,920
Speaker 2: tech perspective. GE did a campaign back at twenty fifteen.

532
00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:47,119
Speaker 2: It was an HR campaign. It is about like getting

533
00:27:47,119 --> 00:27:49,800
Speaker 2: more people to come work for GE. It's called What's

534
00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:53,240
Speaker 2: the matter with Owen? And the ads were like this,

535
00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:56,600
Speaker 2: Owen tells his parents, I'm working for GE, and his

536
00:27:56,680 --> 00:27:58,919
Speaker 2: parents go, oh, so you're going to build railroads. It's

537
00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:01,760
Speaker 2: like no, no, no, like going to build systems. They're like,

538
00:28:01,880 --> 00:28:04,520
Speaker 2: I don't I don't understand. And GE as a brand

539
00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:09,000
Speaker 2: believes that the future is made, that we make the future.

540
00:28:09,040 --> 00:28:11,639
Speaker 2: We build the future, right, That's what G believes that

541
00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:13,840
Speaker 2: that's what we're here to do, to build the future.

542
00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:16,840
Speaker 2: And people who work at GE aren't there for a job,

543
00:28:16,880 --> 00:28:19,720
Speaker 2: they're there to build the future. And for Owen, his

544
00:28:19,840 --> 00:28:22,240
Speaker 2: parents don't get them, his friends don't get them, But

545
00:28:22,320 --> 00:28:25,000
Speaker 2: at GE we get them. And those are stories that

546
00:28:25,080 --> 00:28:27,960
Speaker 2: GE told. In the first eighteen months of that campaign

547
00:28:28,080 --> 00:28:31,159
Speaker 2: run in they had an eight hundred percent increase in

548
00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:35,000
Speaker 2: job applications. Now those ads then say anything about four

549
00:28:35,080 --> 00:28:38,920
Speaker 2: oh one k, nothing about compensation, nothing about location. It

550
00:28:39,040 --> 00:28:43,520
Speaker 2: was all about conviction, about belief, and people were like, yo, that's.

551
00:28:43,360 --> 00:28:43,920
Speaker 4: The kind of company.

552
00:28:43,920 --> 00:28:45,960
Speaker 2: I want to work for people who no one else

553
00:28:46,040 --> 00:28:48,880
Speaker 2: understands me, but they do because like them, I want

554
00:28:48,920 --> 00:28:53,000
Speaker 2: to build the future. And from a biological perspective, we

555
00:28:53,040 --> 00:28:55,080
Speaker 2: are driven by that. The part of the brain is

556
00:28:55,120 --> 00:28:58,600
Speaker 2: responsible for behavior is also associated with our feelings. The

557
00:28:58,600 --> 00:29:03,080
Speaker 2: Olympics system, right, So our feelings are associated with our behavior.

558
00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:05,720
Speaker 2: So if you can activate the Olympic system, the emotional

559
00:29:05,760 --> 00:29:08,720
Speaker 2: part of the brain, it increases the chances of people

560
00:29:08,880 --> 00:29:12,760
Speaker 2: adopting behavior. So how do we do that as a leader,

561
00:29:13,240 --> 00:29:16,800
Speaker 2: as a marketer, as an entrepreneur, as a manager, as

562
00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:21,360
Speaker 2: an activist, as a politician. You start with the soul

563
00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:23,600
Speaker 2: and in with the cell. As CC Chapman would say,

564
00:29:23,560 --> 00:29:25,120
Speaker 2: you start with the soul and end with the cell.

565
00:29:25,560 --> 00:29:27,959
Speaker 4: What do you believe? What do you believe?

566
00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:32,840
Speaker 2: We believe we believe that we should reduce our impact

567
00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:37,640
Speaker 2: on the environment. Great, so we climb clean that's Patagonia.

568
00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:38,440
Speaker 4: What do you believe?

569
00:29:38,480 --> 00:29:41,680
Speaker 2: We believe that there's too much plastic waste in the world,

570
00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:46,240
Speaker 2: So let's murder plastic liquid death.

571
00:29:46,920 --> 00:29:50,000
Speaker 4: They will happen to sell water and tea and energy drinks.

572
00:29:50,040 --> 00:29:52,720
Speaker 2: But they're driven by a conviction, right, a way of

573
00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:55,440
Speaker 2: seeing the world, and they preach the gospel the soul.

574
00:29:55,800 --> 00:29:56,840
Speaker 4: Then they end with the cell.

575
00:29:57,560 --> 00:29:58,080
Speaker 3: Did that?

576
00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:02,640
Speaker 1: I want to present you something that I find challenging

577
00:30:03,120 --> 00:30:05,680
Speaker 1: and fun to think about, and it's this concept of

578
00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:09,240
Speaker 1: for us, by us, which I get, I understand, but

579
00:30:09,280 --> 00:30:12,120
Speaker 1: I also feel like we limit ourselves, especially when we

580
00:30:12,120 --> 00:30:14,760
Speaker 1: think about the conversation we started with with you know,

581
00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:20,160
Speaker 1: black culture leading all global culture. So do we unintentionally

582
00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:23,960
Speaker 1: probably limit our ability to scale and effect change in

583
00:30:23,960 --> 00:30:28,280
Speaker 1: the world when we adhere to the concept of for us,

584
00:30:28,440 --> 00:30:32,320
Speaker 1: for us, part by us, I get biaus, but why

585
00:30:32,360 --> 00:30:34,000
Speaker 1: not by us for the world?

586
00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:36,560
Speaker 4: Yeah? Well I would.

587
00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:41,000
Speaker 2: I would say that it's the specificity for us that

588
00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:43,720
Speaker 2: makes it palatable to the world.

589
00:30:44,360 --> 00:30:44,560
Speaker 4: Right.

590
00:30:44,640 --> 00:30:48,080
Speaker 2: I believe that it's through specificity that we find generality.

591
00:30:48,440 --> 00:30:51,240
Speaker 2: That's why we can watch a movie and that nothing

592
00:30:51,240 --> 00:30:53,320
Speaker 2: to do with us, none to do with my own experience,

593
00:30:53,360 --> 00:30:55,840
Speaker 2: but I could see myself in the character because of

594
00:30:55,840 --> 00:30:59,120
Speaker 2: how specific it is. Through the specificity, we get generality.

595
00:30:59,240 --> 00:31:03,200
Speaker 2: No one wears an NFL hat. I love all the football.

596
00:31:03,880 --> 00:31:07,280
Speaker 2: You wear your team, right, you wear your team because

597
00:31:07,280 --> 00:31:10,240
Speaker 2: it's specific to you. And as you see people engage

598
00:31:10,240 --> 00:31:13,480
Speaker 2: in their fandom, you take that and you mirror it

599
00:31:13,520 --> 00:31:17,280
Speaker 2: to your fandom. So when we when we make stuff

600
00:31:17,360 --> 00:31:21,400
Speaker 2: for us in a way that is so nuanced and

601
00:31:21,440 --> 00:31:25,080
Speaker 2: it's so it's so it hugs all the subtleties of us,

602
00:31:25,640 --> 00:31:28,720
Speaker 2: it feels tighter, and people observe that, they go, that

603
00:31:28,760 --> 00:31:31,000
Speaker 2: seems so cool, Like I want.

604
00:31:30,840 --> 00:31:31,720
Speaker 4: To know more about that.

605
00:31:32,000 --> 00:31:34,160
Speaker 2: I mean, that's like the birth of all things that

606
00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:36,320
Speaker 2: come out of the Black experience.

607
00:31:36,840 --> 00:31:41,640
Speaker 4: Right in. The Black experience is a uh so rich.

608
00:31:42,200 --> 00:31:44,880
Speaker 2: I mean, if you look at American culture, the first

609
00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:48,360
Speaker 2: music that came out of this country that wasn't brought

610
00:31:48,360 --> 00:31:53,080
Speaker 2: over from uh from from Europe with minstrel shows that

611
00:31:53,160 --> 00:31:56,880
Speaker 2: were essentially mockeries of black music.

612
00:31:57,320 --> 00:31:57,520
Speaker 4: Right.

613
00:31:58,360 --> 00:32:01,080
Speaker 2: So the idea is that when we do things that

614
00:32:01,160 --> 00:32:04,760
Speaker 2: are meant for a specific group of people, a specific

615
00:32:04,840 --> 00:32:09,440
Speaker 2: community of people, it is the most demonished representation of

616
00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:12,920
Speaker 2: the cultural characteristics that govern those people, and the creative

617
00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:16,680
Speaker 2: output that comes from that. It's much richer than me

618
00:32:16,760 --> 00:32:19,360
Speaker 2: making something for everybody there is.

619
00:32:20,160 --> 00:32:22,240
Speaker 1: And I talk to them all the time. People who

620
00:32:22,280 --> 00:32:25,200
Speaker 1: do things like I do. They create podcasts, create content

621
00:32:25,280 --> 00:32:29,040
Speaker 1: for YouTube, you know, there would be influencers trying to

622
00:32:29,040 --> 00:32:33,480
Speaker 1: build their influence and trying to build their reach. And

623
00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:37,920
Speaker 1: for this community of creators, what are some of the

624
00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:40,960
Speaker 1: most important things you think are that you think should

625
00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:45,040
Speaker 1: be front of mind when they're creating content, both to

626
00:32:45,360 --> 00:32:49,000
Speaker 1: affect change in the world and you know, help them meet.

627
00:32:49,240 --> 00:32:51,800
Speaker 3: The scratch the ips that they have to put.

628
00:32:51,600 --> 00:32:55,640
Speaker 1: Content into the world and to broaden the audience that

629
00:32:55,680 --> 00:32:56,960
Speaker 1: they are able to deliver that to.

630
00:32:57,960 --> 00:32:59,680
Speaker 2: I think it's exactly what we're talking about right now,

631
00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:04,520
Speaker 2: is that don't make content for everyone, make content for

632
00:33:04,920 --> 00:33:05,640
Speaker 2: your community.

633
00:33:05,680 --> 00:33:06,400
Speaker 4: And it's interesting.

634
00:33:06,680 --> 00:33:09,720
Speaker 2: So if you think about the Galssian curve, what we

635
00:33:09,760 --> 00:33:12,440
Speaker 2: know is the bail curve or the normal curve, and

636
00:33:12,520 --> 00:33:16,480
Speaker 2: tech we talked about this is the the diffusion curve.

637
00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:23,440
Speaker 2: Right Everitt Rodgers affusion curve. That technology, ideas, behaviors, language,

638
00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:27,600
Speaker 2: culture propagates in a community through that bel curve that

639
00:33:27,680 --> 00:33:30,880
Speaker 2: you know of, right, the normal curve, and in the middle,

640
00:33:31,120 --> 00:33:34,040
Speaker 2: that's where the majority of the population is. And marketers

641
00:33:34,120 --> 00:33:37,200
Speaker 2: love that middle because that's where everybody is. The biggest

642
00:33:37,200 --> 00:33:39,520
Speaker 2: mark opportunity is right there, So let me talk to them.

643
00:33:39,600 --> 00:33:42,600
Speaker 2: Right We even have the sales funnel to try to

644
00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:45,520
Speaker 2: reach as me and them as possible. But it's noisy there,

645
00:33:46,160 --> 00:33:49,320
Speaker 2: it's super busy, and it costs a lot to meet

646
00:33:49,320 --> 00:33:49,719
Speaker 2: people there.

647
00:33:50,080 --> 00:33:51,120
Speaker 4: Super Bowl so expensive.

648
00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:54,680
Speaker 2: But on the far left side of that diffusion curve,

649
00:33:55,560 --> 00:33:59,360
Speaker 2: it's subcultures that no one's talking to nobody.

650
00:33:59,560 --> 00:34:03,200
Speaker 4: They just being ignored. You could talk to them.

651
00:34:03,480 --> 00:34:05,760
Speaker 2: The interesting part is that everything that is now cool

652
00:34:06,320 --> 00:34:09,080
Speaker 2: started with them twenty years ago. If you were into

653
00:34:09,080 --> 00:34:12,160
Speaker 2: comic books, you were a loser. Now the movies that

654
00:34:12,200 --> 00:34:15,280
Speaker 2: we watch across the globe all come from comic books

655
00:34:15,480 --> 00:34:17,759
Speaker 2: twenty years ago. If you were into gaming, you were

656
00:34:17,800 --> 00:34:20,600
Speaker 2: a failure to launch, living in your mama's basement. Now

657
00:34:20,800 --> 00:34:24,359
Speaker 2: gaming is a multi billion dollar company the industry. If

658
00:34:24,400 --> 00:34:28,000
Speaker 2: you were in too Animate twenty years ago, loser, now cool.

659
00:34:28,360 --> 00:34:31,319
Speaker 2: Everything that is now cool was once subcultural. So what

660
00:34:31,360 --> 00:34:35,120
Speaker 2: I tell content creators is don't talk to the middle

661
00:34:35,760 --> 00:34:39,200
Speaker 2: talk to the subculture that sees the world most like you,

662
00:34:39,560 --> 00:34:42,400
Speaker 2: because those people will go preach the gospel on your behalf.

663
00:34:42,840 --> 00:34:45,440
Speaker 2: I mean, there are more people who watch Game of

664
00:34:45,520 --> 00:34:49,640
Speaker 2: Thrones than people who are into sci fi fantasy?

665
00:34:50,120 --> 00:34:52,920
Speaker 4: Why is that people who are way.

666
00:34:52,760 --> 00:34:55,680
Speaker 2: Into sci fi and fantasy who have been following George R.

667
00:34:55,880 --> 00:34:58,840
Speaker 2: Martin for years were first to watch Game of Thrones,

668
00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:00,719
Speaker 2: and then those people were like, yo, will you're playing

669
00:35:00,760 --> 00:35:02,840
Speaker 2: yourself now watching this is the best thing on television.

670
00:35:03,160 --> 00:35:04,480
Speaker 2: You like all my friends say is the best thing

671
00:35:04,480 --> 00:35:06,640
Speaker 2: on television. I guess I'll go give it a shot.

672
00:35:06,920 --> 00:35:09,360
Speaker 2: Then they convert you, and then you go convert someone.

673
00:35:09,880 --> 00:35:14,680
Speaker 2: Everything that is now big started small, So as content

674
00:35:14,719 --> 00:35:19,120
Speaker 2: creators who have limited budgets, limited resources, limited capacity.

675
00:35:19,239 --> 00:35:23,120
Speaker 4: Find your community, find your tribe, activate them, and they'll

676
00:35:23,120 --> 00:35:24,560
Speaker 4: go preach the gospel on your behalf.

677
00:35:25,800 --> 00:35:29,480
Speaker 1: There are so many startups and companies by black founders

678
00:35:29,520 --> 00:35:32,239
Speaker 1: who don't have the budget to hire Marcus Collins or

679
00:35:32,239 --> 00:35:35,520
Speaker 1: a Widening Kennedy or you know, anybody in your category.

680
00:35:36,040 --> 00:35:37,839
Speaker 1: But what are some of the things you could leave

681
00:35:37,880 --> 00:35:44,640
Speaker 1: this audience with that are keys, insights, resources, even that

682
00:35:44,760 --> 00:35:47,520
Speaker 1: we should be thinking about when we're starting companies to

683
00:35:47,560 --> 00:35:51,279
Speaker 1: be able to get at least a small impact that

684
00:35:51,480 --> 00:35:54,040
Speaker 1: a yn Kennedy or a Marcus Collins would be able

685
00:35:54,040 --> 00:35:55,880
Speaker 1: to provide to us if we had the budget.

686
00:35:55,880 --> 00:35:59,000
Speaker 2: Well, this is exactly why I wrote the book for

687
00:35:59,080 --> 00:36:02,040
Speaker 2: the culture are behind what we buy.

688
00:36:01,960 --> 00:36:03,920
Speaker 4: What we do and who we want to be to

689
00:36:04,040 --> 00:36:05,960
Speaker 4: scale this knowledge right.

690
00:36:06,360 --> 00:36:09,600
Speaker 2: I was fortunate enough to stumble into this world of marketing,

691
00:36:09,600 --> 00:36:15,400
Speaker 2: communications and realizing that culture is the most powerful influential force.

692
00:36:15,160 --> 00:36:18,799
Speaker 4: On human behavior. And the more I understood culture and

693
00:36:18,840 --> 00:36:19,840
Speaker 4: how it's.

694
00:36:19,520 --> 00:36:23,720
Speaker 2: Operationalized, the better the work became at influencing people's behavior,

695
00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:26,400
Speaker 2: and started teaching that in classrooms while also working with

696
00:36:26,440 --> 00:36:29,360
Speaker 2: brands at places like Biden Kennedy. But I realized that

697
00:36:29,440 --> 00:36:31,879
Speaker 2: people who can't coach in the University of Michigan, people

698
00:36:31,920 --> 00:36:35,080
Speaker 2: who don't work at Widen Kennedy, who deserve a chance,

699
00:36:35,680 --> 00:36:38,239
Speaker 2: especially people who look like us, who deserve chance to

700
00:36:38,320 --> 00:36:40,400
Speaker 2: help our ideas get out into the world and have

701
00:36:40,480 --> 00:36:45,120
Speaker 2: the impact, both the commercial and cultural impact that it deserves.

702
00:36:45,280 --> 00:36:47,200
Speaker 2: So I wrote this book to help people do that

703
00:36:47,440 --> 00:36:49,640
Speaker 2: very thing. So as far as resources are concerned, that's

704
00:36:49,680 --> 00:36:51,840
Speaker 2: the first second.

705
00:36:51,840 --> 00:36:52,560
Speaker 4: That's the first reason.

706
00:36:54,080 --> 00:36:56,359
Speaker 2: The second, though, I would say, is that you got

707
00:36:56,360 --> 00:36:59,920
Speaker 2: to do some introspection, like who are you as a company,

708
00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:03,040
Speaker 2: as a brand, as an institution, as an organization, as

709
00:37:03,080 --> 00:37:03,600
Speaker 2: an entity.

710
00:37:03,840 --> 00:37:06,600
Speaker 4: What do you believe? Not what do you do, but

711
00:37:06,680 --> 00:37:08,840
Speaker 4: what do you believe? How do you see the world?

712
00:37:08,920 --> 00:37:11,759
Speaker 4: And based on how you see the world. Who are

713
00:37:11,800 --> 00:37:13,799
Speaker 4: the people out there who see the world the way

714
00:37:13,840 --> 00:37:14,120
Speaker 4: you do?

715
00:37:15,280 --> 00:37:18,680
Speaker 2: Those people are the collective of the willing, that's your congregation.

716
00:37:19,320 --> 00:37:21,880
Speaker 2: Go preach the gospel to them, because what happens is

717
00:37:21,880 --> 00:37:25,439
Speaker 2: that when you start preaching your gospel, your conviction, they'll

718
00:37:25,480 --> 00:37:28,840
Speaker 2: go WHOA. Finally someone said it. I've been feeling this

719
00:37:28,880 --> 00:37:31,759
Speaker 2: way forever. I thought I was the only one. And

720
00:37:31,840 --> 00:37:34,279
Speaker 2: what they'll do is go, yo, will come check this out.

721
00:37:34,680 --> 00:37:37,080
Speaker 2: This guy's been saying exactly what we've been saying. And

722
00:37:37,080 --> 00:37:39,080
Speaker 2: then if you go tell somebody else, and you tell

723
00:37:39,120 --> 00:37:41,799
Speaker 2: somebody else and so on and so on and so on.

724
00:37:42,280 --> 00:37:45,400
Speaker 4: Right, so you start with who you are, who are

725
00:37:45,400 --> 00:37:46,640
Speaker 4: people see the world the way you do?

726
00:37:46,920 --> 00:37:48,840
Speaker 2: And how do you communicate the gospel in such a

727
00:37:48,880 --> 00:37:51,759
Speaker 2: way that evokes people to move through the stories that

728
00:37:51,800 --> 00:37:52,160
Speaker 2: we tell.

729
00:37:52,400 --> 00:37:53,919
Speaker 4: That's exactly what I uncover in the book.

730
00:38:06,560 --> 00:38:08,880
Speaker 1: Black Tech, Green Money is a production of Blavity Afro

731
00:38:09,000 --> 00:38:12,319
Speaker 1: Tech on the Black Effect podcast network in iHeartMedia, and

732
00:38:12,320 --> 00:38:15,759
Speaker 1: it's produced by Morgan Debonne and me Well Lucas, with

733
00:38:15,840 --> 00:38:20,440
Speaker 1: additional production support by Sarah Ergin and Rose McLucas. Special

734
00:38:20,480 --> 00:38:23,279
Speaker 1: thank you to Michael Davis and Van Nessa Serrano. Learn

735
00:38:23,320 --> 00:38:25,560
Speaker 1: more about my guests and other tech disruptors and innovators

736
00:38:25,560 --> 00:38:30,200
Speaker 1: at afrotech dot com. Enjoying black tech, green money. Share

737
00:38:30,239 --> 00:38:34,799
Speaker 1: this with somebody, Go get your money, piece of luf