1 00:00:01,600 --> 00:00:04,720 Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Bob Pittman. While Math and Magic is on break, 2 00:00:04,920 --> 00:00:08,000 Speaker 1: we're sharing with you CEOs you should know who visit 3 00:00:08,080 --> 00:00:11,920 Speaker 1: at iHeartRadio stations across America. If you're a business junkie 4 00:00:12,000 --> 00:00:14,440 Speaker 1: like I am, I think you'll enjoy hearing some personal 5 00:00:14,480 --> 00:00:18,680 Speaker 1: stories from successful CEOs. Today's conversation is hosted by morning 6 00:00:18,760 --> 00:00:21,200 Speaker 1: show host Ryan Gorman, and I'll be back with a 7 00:00:21,200 --> 00:00:22,799 Speaker 1: new season of Mathemagic soon. 8 00:00:23,720 --> 00:00:26,360 Speaker 2: Joining me in studio Right now, I have Omni Desi, 9 00:00:26,800 --> 00:00:31,200 Speaker 2: CEO of Shelman. You can learn more at Shellman dot com. 10 00:00:31,240 --> 00:00:36,280 Speaker 2: That's scch e l l m a N dot com. Omny, 11 00:00:36,320 --> 00:00:38,199 Speaker 2: thank you so much for coming on the show. Really 12 00:00:38,240 --> 00:00:38,839 Speaker 2: appreciate it. 13 00:00:38,840 --> 00:00:39,960 Speaker 3: It's great to be here, Ryan. 14 00:00:39,880 --> 00:00:42,720 Speaker 2: And let me start with an overview of what exactly 15 00:00:42,720 --> 00:00:43,480 Speaker 2: your company does. 16 00:00:43,800 --> 00:00:47,360 Speaker 3: So Shellman is actually the largest specialized CPA firm that 17 00:00:47,479 --> 00:00:50,400 Speaker 3: just focuses on cybersecurity assessments. So we started in two 18 00:00:50,440 --> 00:00:53,240 Speaker 3: thousand and two. So for the last twenty three years 19 00:00:53,320 --> 00:00:55,880 Speaker 3: we have just been helping companies build trust with their 20 00:00:55,920 --> 00:00:59,760 Speaker 3: customers and we do that through third party cybersecurity assessments. 21 00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:02,720 Speaker 2: All right, so when you do a cybersecurity assessment, what 22 00:01:02,760 --> 00:01:03,920 Speaker 2: exactly does that entail. 23 00:01:04,080 --> 00:01:06,639 Speaker 3: Yeah, so we actually end up going to the client 24 00:01:06,760 --> 00:01:09,479 Speaker 3: or virtually now and we make sure that we test 25 00:01:09,520 --> 00:01:12,360 Speaker 3: the controls that are there. So we look at their technology, 26 00:01:12,400 --> 00:01:14,880 Speaker 3: we look at their people, we look at their processes, 27 00:01:15,280 --> 00:01:17,000 Speaker 3: and what we're trying to do is we're making sure 28 00:01:17,000 --> 00:01:19,800 Speaker 3: that when you give these companies data or you ask 29 00:01:19,840 --> 00:01:23,280 Speaker 3: them to do a third party business process, that they're 30 00:01:23,319 --> 00:01:25,759 Speaker 3: following everything that they should and making sure that your 31 00:01:25,920 --> 00:01:29,319 Speaker 3: data is secure and private, so you can feel comfortable 32 00:01:29,400 --> 00:01:32,600 Speaker 3: using third parties instead of using all of your internal resources. 33 00:01:32,640 --> 00:01:36,080 Speaker 2: And it says on your website that your company is 34 00:01:36,120 --> 00:01:41,679 Speaker 2: trusted by the world's leading companies I mean open Ai, Walmart, Meta, 35 00:01:41,840 --> 00:01:45,880 Speaker 2: So you are dealing with the biggest of the big 36 00:01:45,920 --> 00:01:46,759 Speaker 2: companies out there. 37 00:01:46,840 --> 00:01:49,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, we are the who's who of technology. So most 38 00:01:49,560 --> 00:01:52,800 Speaker 3: of our clients do fall into the technology space because 39 00:01:52,800 --> 00:01:54,720 Speaker 3: you got to think about it, they carry most of 40 00:01:54,760 --> 00:01:57,280 Speaker 3: the data that we use day to day. You have 41 00:01:57,360 --> 00:01:59,800 Speaker 3: to make sure that you feel comfortable as a consumer 42 00:02:00,240 --> 00:02:03,160 Speaker 3: or as a business that they're doing the right things 43 00:02:03,200 --> 00:02:05,279 Speaker 3: with your data and it's safe and secure. 44 00:02:05,520 --> 00:02:07,560 Speaker 2: Has your company in the work you do, has it 45 00:02:07,680 --> 00:02:13,360 Speaker 2: grown in recent years because data privacy security online like 46 00:02:13,520 --> 00:02:16,840 Speaker 2: those have become such major issues in recent years. 47 00:02:17,000 --> 00:02:19,360 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's definitely been a rocket ship. You know, there's 48 00:02:19,680 --> 00:02:22,399 Speaker 3: good things that happen. You know, when there's emerging technology 49 00:02:22,440 --> 00:02:25,839 Speaker 3: like IoT and blockchain and crypto and AI, we see 50 00:02:25,880 --> 00:02:27,919 Speaker 3: an increase. And also when bad things happen. When you 51 00:02:27,919 --> 00:02:31,320 Speaker 3: see an increase in cyber attacks or breaches, those are 52 00:02:31,320 --> 00:02:33,400 Speaker 3: the two things that are going to cause consumers and 53 00:02:33,440 --> 00:02:35,519 Speaker 3: consumers are getting a lot more mature than they were 54 00:02:35,560 --> 00:02:37,799 Speaker 3: twenty years ago. But those are the two things that 55 00:02:37,919 --> 00:02:39,840 Speaker 3: will say, well, I want to make sure that there's 56 00:02:39,880 --> 00:02:43,880 Speaker 3: an independent organization that comes in and provides us an 57 00:02:43,919 --> 00:02:47,639 Speaker 3: independent assessment. So yeah, good and bad, we see an increase. 58 00:02:48,080 --> 00:02:49,480 Speaker 3: But the other thing that you're going to see an 59 00:02:49,480 --> 00:02:53,480 Speaker 3: increase is when people start offshoring or outsourcing their data. 60 00:02:53,480 --> 00:02:55,239 Speaker 3: And that's what happens when you use a third party 61 00:02:55,760 --> 00:02:58,240 Speaker 3: or when there's just a lot more data that's out there. 62 00:02:58,240 --> 00:03:00,560 Speaker 3: And you see that the last five seven. 63 00:03:00,440 --> 00:03:03,240 Speaker 2: Years, you're a leading voice on all these kinds of 64 00:03:03,280 --> 00:03:06,480 Speaker 2: again major issues that are so relevant to all of 65 00:03:06,560 --> 00:03:10,640 Speaker 2: us today. You know, we're not in your position. We 66 00:03:10,720 --> 00:03:12,840 Speaker 2: don't see what you see and know what you know 67 00:03:12,880 --> 00:03:16,280 Speaker 2: when it comes to the security and privacy landscape. What 68 00:03:16,320 --> 00:03:18,560 Speaker 2: are some things you can tell us about where it's 69 00:03:18,600 --> 00:03:20,600 Speaker 2: at right now and some of the things that you 70 00:03:20,680 --> 00:03:23,800 Speaker 2: and these companies are working on to improve it. 71 00:03:24,040 --> 00:03:26,320 Speaker 3: Yeah, the first thing I would say is, don't be scared. 72 00:03:26,400 --> 00:03:28,360 Speaker 3: I hear a lot of things about AI that are 73 00:03:28,400 --> 00:03:30,960 Speaker 3: out there. We can't be scared of it. And you 74 00:03:30,960 --> 00:03:33,600 Speaker 3: can't be scared of any emerging technology because they're coming 75 00:03:33,720 --> 00:03:36,040 Speaker 3: right But what you can do is you make sure 76 00:03:36,080 --> 00:03:39,240 Speaker 3: that they're safe, responsible and reliable. So I'm a big 77 00:03:39,280 --> 00:03:43,400 Speaker 3: believer in you can't you know, you can't mandate how 78 00:03:43,440 --> 00:03:45,360 Speaker 3: the technology is going to be, But what you can 79 00:03:45,440 --> 00:03:47,560 Speaker 3: do is you can make sure that the way people 80 00:03:47,720 --> 00:03:50,760 Speaker 3: use it is responsible. So that's what I would say 81 00:03:50,760 --> 00:03:52,360 Speaker 3: out there, and I would tell, you know, our clients 82 00:03:52,400 --> 00:03:54,720 Speaker 3: the same thing. You know, we are the first organization 83 00:03:54,920 --> 00:03:58,960 Speaker 3: that can certify against responsible AI. It's called ISO forty 84 00:03:58,960 --> 00:04:01,080 Speaker 3: two thousand and one, and we were able to, you know, 85 00:04:01,120 --> 00:04:04,160 Speaker 3: certify some of the biggest names like AWS and mincast 86 00:04:04,640 --> 00:04:07,680 Speaker 3: out there. So it's coming, but you just have to 87 00:04:07,680 --> 00:04:10,160 Speaker 3: make sure that organizations are doing the right thing with 88 00:04:10,200 --> 00:04:12,320 Speaker 3: your data. And that's our job. That's why we're there 89 00:04:12,360 --> 00:04:15,280 Speaker 3: to make sure that we're building trust with the consumer 90 00:04:15,520 --> 00:04:16,799 Speaker 3: and the customers. 91 00:04:16,960 --> 00:04:20,120 Speaker 2: Do you find that these companies generally when you go 92 00:04:20,240 --> 00:04:24,039 Speaker 2: in that they have the right setup in place, or 93 00:04:24,080 --> 00:04:25,640 Speaker 2: more often than not, are you having to go in 94 00:04:25,680 --> 00:04:28,640 Speaker 2: and saying, hey, you need to fix this or fix that. 95 00:04:29,040 --> 00:04:31,440 Speaker 3: Yeah, a little bit of both. But what I have 96 00:04:31,640 --> 00:04:34,039 Speaker 3: started realizing in the last several years, and this wasn't 97 00:04:34,080 --> 00:04:36,440 Speaker 3: when I started my career twenty five years ago. In 98 00:04:36,480 --> 00:04:40,360 Speaker 3: the last several years, organizations know that they have an 99 00:04:40,400 --> 00:04:43,039 Speaker 3: obligation to do the right thing to the cut consumer, 100 00:04:43,360 --> 00:04:46,440 Speaker 3: and it's not something that's an afterthought. That is a 101 00:04:46,480 --> 00:04:49,960 Speaker 3: big shift. Before people would want to get to market 102 00:04:50,000 --> 00:04:52,479 Speaker 3: as quickly as possible, so they kind of put security 103 00:04:52,520 --> 00:04:55,560 Speaker 3: and privacy on the back burner. But now they're putting 104 00:04:55,640 --> 00:04:58,839 Speaker 3: security in privacy right with the developers. So when the 105 00:04:58,839 --> 00:05:02,479 Speaker 3: developers are developing something, they say, security and privacy should 106 00:05:02,520 --> 00:05:04,160 Speaker 3: be part of it, should be part of the design. 107 00:05:04,640 --> 00:05:06,920 Speaker 3: And that's a good shift that we need to see, 108 00:05:07,080 --> 00:05:08,080 Speaker 3: especially in the US. 109 00:05:08,320 --> 00:05:10,760 Speaker 2: Let's talk about you for a moment. You've been featured 110 00:05:10,800 --> 00:05:13,320 Speaker 2: in in Forbes and the Wall Street Journal. What is 111 00:05:13,320 --> 00:05:16,360 Speaker 2: that like as you're working your way up and also 112 00:05:16,560 --> 00:05:18,479 Speaker 2: you mentioned, you know, you've been doing this for twenty 113 00:05:18,480 --> 00:05:22,760 Speaker 2: five years. That's like pre iPhone to AI. 114 00:05:23,240 --> 00:05:27,760 Speaker 3: That's right. When I started, cybersecurity wasn't even a word. 115 00:05:28,800 --> 00:05:31,880 Speaker 3: And so yeah, I've seen the entire feels like an era, right, 116 00:05:32,600 --> 00:05:34,080 Speaker 3: you know, I say it was the end of a decade, 117 00:05:34,120 --> 00:05:36,560 Speaker 3: but you know, start of this new age of you know, 118 00:05:36,600 --> 00:05:39,760 Speaker 3: cybersecurity that's out there. It's really exciting. My kids asked 119 00:05:39,800 --> 00:05:41,240 Speaker 3: me often. I have three kids, and they ask me 120 00:05:41,279 --> 00:05:42,919 Speaker 3: often like how is it to be on you know, 121 00:05:43,000 --> 00:05:45,960 Speaker 3: the Wall Street Journal or you know, And I say, 122 00:05:46,040 --> 00:05:47,680 Speaker 3: I feel like I'm in my own video game every 123 00:05:47,760 --> 00:05:49,800 Speaker 3: day because when I wake up, one it's a lot 124 00:05:49,800 --> 00:05:51,920 Speaker 3: of fun with what I do, and two I get 125 00:05:52,000 --> 00:05:55,840 Speaker 3: to learn. You know, technology outpaces humans, Yeah, and it 126 00:05:55,880 --> 00:05:58,880 Speaker 3: continues to do that. So for me to stay up 127 00:05:58,880 --> 00:06:01,159 Speaker 3: to pace, and for my team to stay up to pace, 128 00:06:01,440 --> 00:06:04,520 Speaker 3: we've got to learn every day. And the way even AI, 129 00:06:05,000 --> 00:06:06,520 Speaker 3: you know, a year and a half or two years 130 00:06:06,520 --> 00:06:09,960 Speaker 3: ago is when chat GPT came out, right, So generative 131 00:06:10,000 --> 00:06:12,440 Speaker 3: AI has really only been around for a few years. 132 00:06:12,440 --> 00:06:14,760 Speaker 3: And now we're talking about agentics AI. What are we 133 00:06:14,760 --> 00:06:17,360 Speaker 3: gonna talk about in another year or we're gonna talk 134 00:06:17,360 --> 00:06:18,720 Speaker 3: about humanoid robots, right. 135 00:06:18,839 --> 00:06:21,120 Speaker 2: Right, and hope I need to help around the house, 136 00:06:21,200 --> 00:06:21,680 Speaker 2: so do I. 137 00:06:23,160 --> 00:06:25,320 Speaker 3: And so it's fun. It's a lot of fun. And 138 00:06:25,360 --> 00:06:28,400 Speaker 3: being in my position and working with the best of 139 00:06:28,440 --> 00:06:31,560 Speaker 3: the best companies, I really get a lot of amazing 140 00:06:31,640 --> 00:06:33,919 Speaker 3: insights that I don't think an average person gets. 141 00:06:34,040 --> 00:06:36,719 Speaker 2: And you're seeing the cutting edge of all of it. 142 00:06:37,120 --> 00:06:39,840 Speaker 2: And like you mentioned, you know, chat GPT bursts onto 143 00:06:39,880 --> 00:06:42,960 Speaker 2: the scene and now we're able to do ridiculous things 144 00:06:43,040 --> 00:06:44,719 Speaker 2: like I don't know if you can see that that 145 00:06:44,760 --> 00:06:46,760 Speaker 2: trophy right there. But we won a Show of the 146 00:06:46,839 --> 00:06:51,880 Speaker 2: Year and and so we had our producer James He 147 00:06:51,880 --> 00:06:55,599 Speaker 2: he made a song through AI and I kid you not, 148 00:06:55,760 --> 00:06:58,160 Speaker 2: it sounds like a Jason Allen deanside. I mean it's crazy. 149 00:06:58,520 --> 00:07:01,320 Speaker 2: So you know, that's just what we're seeing. Now, what 150 00:07:01,440 --> 00:07:03,320 Speaker 2: do we have to look forward to? Because you said 151 00:07:03,360 --> 00:07:05,760 Speaker 2: not to be afraid of it? Like, how much more 152 00:07:05,880 --> 00:07:07,080 Speaker 2: is still to come? 153 00:07:07,600 --> 00:07:10,560 Speaker 3: I think we've just scratched the surface the surface, right. 154 00:07:11,880 --> 00:07:14,400 Speaker 3: I don't think AI is going to take the jobs 155 00:07:14,480 --> 00:07:17,800 Speaker 3: that were there. I actually say artificial intelligence should be 156 00:07:17,800 --> 00:07:20,960 Speaker 3: called assistant intelligence. Really, it's there to assist you. I 157 00:07:21,040 --> 00:07:24,320 Speaker 3: mean it's called copilot for a reason, right, And what 158 00:07:24,360 --> 00:07:26,560 Speaker 3: it's supposed to do is it's supposed to take away 159 00:07:27,040 --> 00:07:31,600 Speaker 3: the mundane and maybe just make you more efficient. I 160 00:07:31,600 --> 00:07:34,040 Speaker 3: hope that's what you've started seeing and I've started seeing 161 00:07:34,080 --> 00:07:37,600 Speaker 3: that as well. In five ten years, is it going 162 00:07:37,640 --> 00:07:39,880 Speaker 3: to take some jobs, Yes, it is, But are we 163 00:07:39,920 --> 00:07:42,400 Speaker 3: going to have new jobs? One hundred percent. When the 164 00:07:42,440 --> 00:07:45,320 Speaker 3: Internet came, everyone said, oh, researchers were going to go away, 165 00:07:45,360 --> 00:07:49,000 Speaker 3: but actually the number of researchers doubled. Right, There's going 166 00:07:49,040 --> 00:07:51,640 Speaker 3: to be these new roles that we've never seen. There 167 00:07:51,640 --> 00:07:53,840 Speaker 3: was never a drone operator ten years ago. There was 168 00:07:53,840 --> 00:07:56,600 Speaker 3: never a YouTube creator fifteen years ago. So we're going 169 00:07:56,640 --> 00:07:58,960 Speaker 3: to start seeing these new types of jobs like AI 170 00:07:59,040 --> 00:08:03,520 Speaker 3: prompt engineering and AI security. But what we're going to 171 00:08:03,600 --> 00:08:05,760 Speaker 3: have to do is you can't stay obsolete. You're going 172 00:08:05,800 --> 00:08:07,640 Speaker 3: to have to be agile and you're gonna have to 173 00:08:07,680 --> 00:08:09,720 Speaker 3: reskill yourself. And if you don't want to do that, 174 00:08:10,200 --> 00:08:12,160 Speaker 3: then I think you're in trouble. But if you do 175 00:08:12,200 --> 00:08:13,760 Speaker 3: want to do that, I think you're gonna have a 176 00:08:13,800 --> 00:08:15,240 Speaker 3: lot of opportunity in the future. 177 00:08:15,760 --> 00:08:18,320 Speaker 1: More on CEOs you should know. After this quick break, 178 00:08:22,920 --> 00:08:25,000 Speaker 1: let's get back to more CEOs. You should know. 179 00:08:26,560 --> 00:08:30,000 Speaker 2: We're joined by Avni Deci, CEO of Shellman, which you 180 00:08:30,000 --> 00:08:33,440 Speaker 2: can learn more about at shellman dot com. It's interesting 181 00:08:33,559 --> 00:08:36,600 Speaker 2: as you were talking about how we might be able 182 00:08:36,679 --> 00:08:39,800 Speaker 2: to work with AI moving forward. There are a lot 183 00:08:39,840 --> 00:08:44,920 Speaker 2: of people who have seen the plate that they have 184 00:08:45,120 --> 00:08:49,520 Speaker 2: at work become more and more filled up over the years. 185 00:08:49,600 --> 00:08:52,840 Speaker 2: So they're in their position and just they have so 186 00:08:52,880 --> 00:08:54,840 Speaker 2: many more jobs that they have to deal with on 187 00:08:54,880 --> 00:08:57,600 Speaker 2: a daily basis, and I think for a lot of 188 00:08:57,600 --> 00:09:00,000 Speaker 2: people that could be something that would be very excited 189 00:09:00,840 --> 00:09:03,520 Speaker 2: making all of that extra work that they've gained over 190 00:09:03,520 --> 00:09:05,840 Speaker 2: the years, a lot of times for no extra pay, 191 00:09:06,120 --> 00:09:09,000 Speaker 2: and making it all more efficient. 192 00:09:08,880 --> 00:09:11,160 Speaker 3: One hundred percent. I mean taking away some of that 193 00:09:11,280 --> 00:09:14,960 Speaker 3: administrative stuff is really and going back to the core 194 00:09:15,000 --> 00:09:17,600 Speaker 3: of what you really enjoy doing. So my husband's a physician, 195 00:09:17,920 --> 00:09:21,120 Speaker 3: and his core is making sure that patients, mothers and 196 00:09:21,160 --> 00:09:24,360 Speaker 3: babies is what he does, have the best care. But 197 00:09:24,480 --> 00:09:27,480 Speaker 3: thirty percent of his work is dictation and writing notes 198 00:09:27,520 --> 00:09:30,480 Speaker 3: and stuff. AI can take that away and actually allow 199 00:09:30,559 --> 00:09:32,760 Speaker 3: him to be a better physician. Same thing for me. 200 00:09:32,880 --> 00:09:35,280 Speaker 3: You know, we do audit work, so much of what 201 00:09:35,320 --> 00:09:38,079 Speaker 3: we do is documentation, and ticking and tying and making 202 00:09:38,080 --> 00:09:40,320 Speaker 3: sure memos are right. But now I can go back 203 00:09:40,320 --> 00:09:43,400 Speaker 3: to making sure the capital markets feel really secure about 204 00:09:43,440 --> 00:09:47,160 Speaker 3: what they're investing in because third party auditors like us 205 00:09:47,200 --> 00:09:50,120 Speaker 3: are spending a lot more time on the actual act 206 00:09:50,200 --> 00:09:52,640 Speaker 3: of the business right, And that, to me is the 207 00:09:52,640 --> 00:09:54,839 Speaker 3: most exciting thing that's going to be out there is AI. 208 00:09:54,960 --> 00:09:58,440 Speaker 3: Can you take all this stuff that I've been doing 209 00:09:58,960 --> 00:10:01,960 Speaker 3: more with less? Now? Can I do what I'm really 210 00:10:02,000 --> 00:10:05,000 Speaker 3: passionate about in the core of what I enjoy doing, 211 00:10:05,200 --> 00:10:08,720 Speaker 3: and you're paying me to do and allow someone else 212 00:10:08,760 --> 00:10:11,600 Speaker 3: to or something else to, you know, take over the rest? 213 00:10:11,720 --> 00:10:14,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, And like for me, you know, all these questions 214 00:10:14,120 --> 00:10:17,600 Speaker 2: I've asked so far, all AI generated, so you know, big, 215 00:10:17,679 --> 00:10:20,839 Speaker 2: big help there, big help there. I'd need to sign 216 00:10:20,960 --> 00:10:24,320 Speaker 2: CEO of Shellman. You can learn more again at shellman 217 00:10:24,600 --> 00:10:28,079 Speaker 2: dot com. That's s c H E L L M 218 00:10:28,240 --> 00:10:31,839 Speaker 2: A N dot com. I'd be really fascinating conversation. Thanks 219 00:10:31,880 --> 00:10:32,560 Speaker 2: so much for coming in. 220 00:10:32,679 --> 00:10:33,720 Speaker 3: Thanks Ryan, it was great. 221 00:10:34,280 --> 00:10:37,120 Speaker 1: I'm Bob Pittman. Thanks for listening to CEOs. You should 222 00:10:37,120 --> 00:10:38,520 Speaker 1: know we'll see you next time.