1
00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:02,600
Speaker 1: Up next The Truth with Lisa Mouth, part of the

2
00:00:02,640 --> 00:00:07,160
Speaker 1: game which Welcome back to the Truth with Lisa Booth.

3
00:00:07,320 --> 00:00:10,799
Speaker 1: This week, we're discussing the trial of Glenn Maxwell, which

4
00:00:10,800 --> 00:00:14,440
Speaker 1: began on Monday. As you may know, Maxwell is a

5
00:00:14,480 --> 00:00:18,920
Speaker 1: British socialite accused of helping Jeffrey Epstein recruit and sexually

6
00:00:18,920 --> 00:00:23,760
Speaker 1: abuse young girls. Federal prosecutors are alleging that Maxwell created

7
00:00:23,800 --> 00:00:27,320
Speaker 1: a network of underage victims for Epstein to target, So,

8
00:00:27,360 --> 00:00:30,160
Speaker 1: in other words, they are saying that Maxwell was Epstein's

9
00:00:30,240 --> 00:00:34,960
Speaker 1: right hand woman. This trial will offer us a glimse

10
00:00:35,080 --> 00:00:38,479
Speaker 1: not only into the dark lives of Epstein and potentially Maxwell,

11
00:00:38,960 --> 00:00:42,080
Speaker 1: but maybe some of the prominent men that Epstein was

12
00:00:42,080 --> 00:00:45,879
Speaker 1: connected with. We're also going to get into Jeffrey Epstein,

13
00:00:45,960 --> 00:00:50,239
Speaker 1: because there is no trial of Glenn Maxwell without Jeffrey Epstein.

14
00:00:50,920 --> 00:00:53,920
Speaker 1: But to discuss it all on this show is Vicky Ward,

15
00:00:53,960 --> 00:00:57,440
Speaker 1: who hosts the documentary Chasing Glen, which is out on

16
00:00:57,520 --> 00:01:01,520
Speaker 1: Discovery Plus. All three parts of Chasing Glene are going

17
00:01:01,560 --> 00:01:04,720
Speaker 1: to air back to back on I d this Friday

18
00:01:04,760 --> 00:01:08,200
Speaker 1: at eight pm Eastern seven pm Central Time. She's also

19
00:01:08,240 --> 00:01:13,440
Speaker 1: the host of the podcast Chasing Glene. She Knew Glenn Maxwell,

20
00:01:13,480 --> 00:01:17,120
Speaker 1: loosely dating back to nineteen ninety nine. She also interviewed

21
00:01:17,160 --> 00:01:20,560
Speaker 1: Jeffrey Epstein and an interview in two thousand two for

22
00:01:20,680 --> 00:01:25,399
Speaker 1: Vanity Fair, she had learned about two accusers of Jeffrey Epstein.

23
00:01:25,480 --> 00:01:28,200
Speaker 1: Vanity Fair actually cut that from the piece, So we're

24
00:01:28,200 --> 00:01:30,360
Speaker 1: gonna get into that as well, and her experience as

25
00:01:30,440 --> 00:01:32,560
Speaker 1: talking to Jeffrey Epstein, what was he like, he had

26
00:01:32,560 --> 00:01:35,480
Speaker 1: threatened her? What was that light? So we're gonna get

27
00:01:35,520 --> 00:01:37,639
Speaker 1: into all of it. It's going to be a fascinating show.

28
00:01:38,120 --> 00:01:51,880
Speaker 1: Buckle up and stay tuned. So if I'm so interested

29
00:01:51,880 --> 00:01:54,320
Speaker 1: in having this conversation with you, because you're just such

30
00:01:54,360 --> 00:01:56,880
Speaker 1: an expert on all of this, You're you're such a

31
00:01:56,920 --> 00:01:59,600
Speaker 1: subject matter expert on all of these issues and the

32
00:01:59,680 --> 00:02:02,800
Speaker 1: try you know. But before we get into Glenn Maxwell

33
00:02:03,000 --> 00:02:05,320
Speaker 1: and the trial that's going on right now, just big

34
00:02:05,360 --> 00:02:10,520
Speaker 1: picture of who was Jeffrey Epstein? Huh? That is the

35
00:02:10,840 --> 00:02:14,880
Speaker 1: great question. And two years after his death though I

36
00:02:14,919 --> 00:02:16,840
Speaker 1: think it's two and a half years at this point,

37
00:02:18,160 --> 00:02:21,680
Speaker 1: we still don't really know who Jeffrey Epstein is. You know,

38
00:02:21,760 --> 00:02:26,079
Speaker 1: almost twenty years after I began first reporting on him.

39
00:02:26,120 --> 00:02:31,280
Speaker 1: You know, the jigsaw puzzle just gets more and more complicated. Well,

40
00:02:31,400 --> 00:02:36,280
Speaker 1: you know I have discovered, um, is that you know,

41
00:02:37,240 --> 00:02:43,440
Speaker 1: not only was he a sick pedophile, but he was

42
00:02:43,960 --> 00:02:52,560
Speaker 1: a crook. He was a con artist, He was an embezzler. Ah,

43
00:02:52,600 --> 00:02:58,840
Speaker 1: he was quite possibly an arms stealer. Um. He seems

44
00:02:59,600 --> 00:03:04,240
Speaker 1: to have been some sort of spy or influence agents

45
00:03:04,520 --> 00:03:08,800
Speaker 1: for foreign governments. And of course he was a math teacher.

46
00:03:10,120 --> 00:03:16,320
Speaker 1: And he's also it's emerged, some sort of master manipulator

47
00:03:16,760 --> 00:03:21,640
Speaker 1: of really powerful men that for some reason, men like

48
00:03:21,840 --> 00:03:25,280
Speaker 1: Bill Gates, whose association with Epstein we didn't know about

49
00:03:25,560 --> 00:03:30,200
Speaker 1: after his death. Um uh, you know, as well as

50
00:03:30,280 --> 00:03:33,359
Speaker 1: the more obvious ones like Donald Trump and Prince Andrew

51
00:03:34,160 --> 00:03:39,600
Speaker 1: and Bill Clinton, Um, Larry Summers. You know, they're all

52
00:03:39,640 --> 00:03:44,160
Speaker 1: they're all, um. They all continued to hang out with

53
00:03:44,200 --> 00:03:46,480
Speaker 1: this guy even after he went to jail for the

54
00:03:46,520 --> 00:03:49,520
Speaker 1: first time in two thousand and nine and was a

55
00:03:49,680 --> 00:03:55,880
Speaker 1: known convicted sex offender. So you know, the question who

56
00:03:56,120 --> 00:03:59,400
Speaker 1: is Jeffrey Epstein really doesn't have a very simple answer.

57
00:03:59,640 --> 00:04:02,800
Speaker 1: We don't know. But in fair I don't think Trump

58
00:04:02,840 --> 00:04:05,760
Speaker 1: continued it because my understanding is he actually kicked him

59
00:04:05,800 --> 00:04:13,360
Speaker 1: out of Morrow. Donald Trump did not because my understanding

60
00:04:13,400 --> 00:04:15,880
Speaker 1: is he actually kicked him out of Morrow Lago because

61
00:04:15,880 --> 00:04:19,159
Speaker 1: he found out that he hit on one of his

62
00:04:19,360 --> 00:04:22,880
Speaker 1: you know, marl Ago members daughter. Because I mean, look,

63
00:04:22,880 --> 00:04:25,679
Speaker 1: you know, the Jeffrey Epstein and Glenn Maxwell were people

64
00:04:25,720 --> 00:04:28,480
Speaker 1: of town right there, were socialized, They were in all

65
00:04:28,520 --> 00:04:32,719
Speaker 1: these different circles with influential people. So here I'm going

66
00:04:32,800 --> 00:04:36,119
Speaker 1: to push back a little on you. So here's what again.

67
00:04:36,160 --> 00:04:43,200
Speaker 1: It's so interesting Glenn Maxwell was very much until the

68
00:04:43,320 --> 00:04:47,200
Speaker 1: last four years when she moved out of New York,

69
00:04:47,640 --> 00:04:51,080
Speaker 1: she was very much somebody who was socially prominent. Yes,

70
00:04:53,000 --> 00:04:58,799
Speaker 1: Jeffrey Epstein never went out. He was a complete recluse

71
00:04:59,680 --> 00:05:05,280
Speaker 1: who the moment he got rich in the early nineties nineties,

72
00:05:05,920 --> 00:05:13,599
Speaker 1: retreated inside the walls of his various mansions, ranches, islands, planes, whatever,

73
00:05:14,760 --> 00:05:21,400
Speaker 1: and he had people come to him. And uh, you know,

74
00:05:21,520 --> 00:05:25,719
Speaker 1: it's almost like for the period that Glenn Maxwell was

75
00:05:26,080 --> 00:05:29,359
Speaker 1: working for him up until sort of two thousand and four,

76
00:05:30,080 --> 00:05:33,440
Speaker 1: she was out there kind of as a like his

77
00:05:33,920 --> 00:05:39,160
Speaker 1: eyes and ears almost. But you know, one of the reasons, um,

78
00:05:39,200 --> 00:05:43,520
Speaker 1: I didn't realize when I was first assigned to write

79
00:05:43,520 --> 00:05:46,200
Speaker 1: about Jeffrey Epstein in two thousand and two for Vanity

80
00:05:46,240 --> 00:05:49,479
Speaker 1: Fair that there was any relationship between him and Glenn,

81
00:05:49,640 --> 00:05:52,000
Speaker 1: because I had seen Glenn out in about, but she

82
00:05:52,040 --> 00:05:55,560
Speaker 1: was always by herself or with some other guy. Nobody

83
00:05:55,560 --> 00:05:58,719
Speaker 1: ever talked about Jeffrey Epstein, No one, nobody. I had

84
00:05:58,760 --> 00:06:02,920
Speaker 1: never heard of Jeffrey Epstein. He was not socially prominent.

85
00:06:04,080 --> 00:06:06,520
Speaker 1: But I'm just saying the photos I've seen are you know,

86
00:06:06,640 --> 00:06:09,520
Speaker 1: out and about. But anyways, I think there's a difference

87
00:06:09,520 --> 00:06:12,120
Speaker 1: between you know, if you're a Bill Clinton, you're flying

88
00:06:12,160 --> 00:06:15,080
Speaker 1: on at least twenty six trips on his private plane,

89
00:06:15,200 --> 00:06:17,520
Speaker 1: or you give him a private tour of the White House,

90
00:06:17,640 --> 00:06:21,800
Speaker 1: or you know, Jeffrey Epstein helps find I think refurbishing

91
00:06:21,839 --> 00:06:25,320
Speaker 1: the over Office. But right, so that and I remembered

92
00:06:25,360 --> 00:06:28,000
Speaker 1: that was in the early nineties, and then yes, the

93
00:06:28,040 --> 00:06:31,200
Speaker 1: plane was two thousand and two. But the plane trip is.

94
00:06:31,200 --> 00:06:35,200
Speaker 1: Funnily enough, the notoriety of that is what sort of

95
00:06:35,440 --> 00:06:39,680
Speaker 1: got Jeffrey Epstein into trouble because it was that it

96
00:06:39,880 --> 00:06:42,760
Speaker 1: was precisely because it was that mention of him in

97
00:06:42,800 --> 00:06:46,000
Speaker 1: the in the media, fact that that was so unusual.

98
00:06:46,480 --> 00:06:49,760
Speaker 1: That's what what caused mine then editor to say to me,

99
00:06:49,839 --> 00:06:52,240
Speaker 1: you know, I've heard about this guy for years. He's

100
00:06:52,240 --> 00:06:55,120
Speaker 1: a complete mystery. Go and find out how he's made

101
00:06:55,160 --> 00:06:58,080
Speaker 1: his money. Nobody knows. But see, what I thought was

102
00:06:58,120 --> 00:07:00,440
Speaker 1: interesting and what I learned from your documentary that I

103
00:07:00,440 --> 00:07:03,279
Speaker 1: didn't know before is you talked about, you know, potential

104
00:07:03,400 --> 00:07:05,880
Speaker 1: arms dealers. You talked about some of his relationships, his

105
00:07:05,920 --> 00:07:09,479
Speaker 1: international relationships. Talk a little bit about that, Like, what

106
00:07:09,560 --> 00:07:11,920
Speaker 1: did you learn through the documentary? What do you know

107
00:07:12,520 --> 00:07:17,680
Speaker 1: about some of his potential relationships with world leaders, governments,

108
00:07:17,720 --> 00:07:20,720
Speaker 1: you know, and and that sort of arena right, Well,

109
00:07:20,760 --> 00:07:23,120
Speaker 1: you know, it's fascinating. So again, what I try and

110
00:07:23,200 --> 00:07:29,760
Speaker 1: do UM is give the viewers, you know, I try

111
00:07:29,800 --> 00:07:34,240
Speaker 1: to be as objective as possible and if and explain

112
00:07:35,080 --> 00:07:38,880
Speaker 1: the backgrounds of my various sources to the viewers and

113
00:07:38,920 --> 00:07:44,640
Speaker 1: then let them decide who they think is credible UM.

114
00:07:44,680 --> 00:07:51,000
Speaker 1: Because there are conflicting UM stories in the documentary about

115
00:07:51,040 --> 00:07:57,360
Speaker 1: all of this. We have a few people who claim

116
00:07:57,440 --> 00:08:06,160
Speaker 1: that Jeffrey Epstein UM was working with the armstealer Adnan

117
00:08:06,360 --> 00:08:12,480
Speaker 1: Kashagi in the eighties, which was the period of the

118
00:08:12,600 --> 00:08:16,400
Speaker 1: l Yamama arms deal, biggest armsteal ever to be done

119
00:08:16,920 --> 00:08:22,360
Speaker 1: between Britain, and Saudi Arabia and that it was through

120
00:08:22,600 --> 00:08:27,520
Speaker 1: this sort of shadowy arms dealing world that Jeffrey Epstein

121
00:08:27,680 --> 00:08:31,880
Speaker 1: first met Robert Maxwell. UM. Now, people close to the

122
00:08:31,920 --> 00:08:37,560
Speaker 1: Maxwell's have said they don't believe Robert Maxwell new Jeffrey Epstein.

123
00:08:38,160 --> 00:08:41,679
Speaker 1: Other people say, you know, Steve Hoffenbergh, who worked with

124
00:08:41,760 --> 00:08:46,160
Speaker 1: Jeffrey Epstein, says that Epstein told him that he helped

125
00:08:46,240 --> 00:08:51,880
Speaker 1: Robert Maxwell restructure his debt right before he died in

126
00:08:54,000 --> 00:08:58,600
Speaker 1: UM and that, furthermore, Robert Maxwell always wanted Jeffrey Epstein

127
00:08:58,760 --> 00:09:07,360
Speaker 1: to marry his daughter Gilenn. Other people say that's not true.

128
00:09:07,559 --> 00:09:13,520
Speaker 1: Gilenn Maxwell met Jeffrey Epstein which was the year of

129
00:09:13,559 --> 00:09:18,280
Speaker 1: her father's death, and that Jeffrey Epstein with someone whose

130
00:09:18,320 --> 00:09:24,360
Speaker 1: affluence HUM meant that he could replace her dad in

131
00:09:24,480 --> 00:09:28,160
Speaker 1: his life as someone who could support her financially. UM.

132
00:09:28,640 --> 00:09:31,079
Speaker 1: But there is you know, there's there's a big black hole,

133
00:09:31,760 --> 00:09:35,040
Speaker 1: a big question mark as to how Jeffrey Epstein and

134
00:09:35,160 --> 00:09:39,320
Speaker 1: Gilenn met and who actually did make that introduction. But

135
00:09:40,360 --> 00:09:42,959
Speaker 1: they are you know, the same people who say that

136
00:09:43,080 --> 00:09:49,560
Speaker 1: Robert Maxwell um met Jeffrey Epstein in the eighties, UM

137
00:09:50,040 --> 00:09:57,440
Speaker 1: say that Robert Maxwell introduced Jeffrey Epstein to the Israelis,

138
00:09:58,280 --> 00:10:03,120
Speaker 1: and that these Raley's I thought that Jeffrey Epstein would

139
00:10:03,120 --> 00:10:08,400
Speaker 1: be somebody who could be quite youthful, UM as someone

140
00:10:08,440 --> 00:10:12,480
Speaker 1: to sort of orchestrate an influenced campaign. UM. A former

141
00:10:12,520 --> 00:10:17,880
Speaker 1: CIA agent called Victor Ostrovski, who we do know there

142
00:10:17,920 --> 00:10:22,280
Speaker 1: there is hard evidence he was as CI agent. UM

143
00:10:22,440 --> 00:10:26,440
Speaker 1: says that, you know, being an influenced agents is not

144
00:10:26,640 --> 00:10:29,920
Speaker 1: as sinister as it perhaps sounds. That many people can

145
00:10:29,960 --> 00:10:34,720
Speaker 1: be influenced agents. UM for governments. People do it in

146
00:10:34,840 --> 00:10:40,840
Speaker 1: broad daylight through lobbying groups and so forth. UM. But

147
00:10:41,000 --> 00:10:48,240
Speaker 1: there is this theory that UM, when Bill Clinton was

148
00:10:48,280 --> 00:10:53,679
Speaker 1: elected president, the Israelis were deeply concerned that the Clinton

149
00:10:53,679 --> 00:10:58,200
Speaker 1: administration was going to be pro Palestinian sort of rerun

150
00:10:58,280 --> 00:11:05,520
Speaker 1: of the Carter administration, and UM that Epstein was deployed

151
00:11:05,559 --> 00:11:13,320
Speaker 1: as somebody who UM could he could influence powerful people.

152
00:11:14,080 --> 00:11:17,400
Speaker 1: And as you've rightly pointed out, there are photographs of

153
00:11:17,480 --> 00:11:20,840
Speaker 1: Bill Clinton and Glen Maxwell in the Clinton white House

154
00:11:20,840 --> 00:11:23,640
Speaker 1: with Bill Clinton, and there are records that they did

155
00:11:23,679 --> 00:11:27,560
Speaker 1: in fact donate money to the Clinton white House in

156
00:11:27,880 --> 00:11:37,679
Speaker 1: I think UM, so you know, I asked UM viewers

157
00:11:37,720 --> 00:11:41,160
Speaker 1: to make up their own minds. Um. It's also true

158
00:11:41,200 --> 00:11:46,040
Speaker 1: that Jeffrey Epstein himself was someone who boasted, and certainly

159
00:11:46,080 --> 00:11:49,600
Speaker 1: in the last decade of his life, he boasted that

160
00:11:49,640 --> 00:11:52,960
Speaker 1: he was working with the Sound Clinton, the crand Prince

161
00:11:53,040 --> 00:11:57,440
Speaker 1: of Saudi Arabia, Mahammed bin Salmon. He boasted that he

162
00:11:57,800 --> 00:12:03,760
Speaker 1: was basically in charge of a businessman who ran the

163
00:12:03,960 --> 00:12:10,280
Speaker 1: very important strategic port of jabooty Uh in Africa, which

164
00:12:10,320 --> 00:12:12,960
Speaker 1: is which is an important port to control because it's

165
00:12:13,840 --> 00:12:18,199
Speaker 1: deep water, which means that all sorts of things can

166
00:12:18,200 --> 00:12:22,920
Speaker 1: be smuggled in and out of there. Um. He said

167
00:12:22,960 --> 00:12:28,760
Speaker 1: he was working for various African dictators, and we know

168
00:12:28,920 --> 00:12:32,960
Speaker 1: that he was also working working um and advising some

169
00:12:33,120 --> 00:12:37,679
Speaker 1: very prominent American businessman such as the financier Leon Black,

170
00:12:37,800 --> 00:12:41,640
Speaker 1: who we now know Paige. Jeffrey Epstein a hundred and

171
00:12:41,640 --> 00:12:45,640
Speaker 1: sixty eight million dollars in these he says for tax advice.

172
00:12:46,520 --> 00:12:50,960
Speaker 1: So that's a pretty complex picture. Where did most of

173
00:12:51,040 --> 00:12:56,720
Speaker 1: his money come from? Well, you know, that's the great mystery,

174
00:12:56,720 --> 00:12:59,360
Speaker 1: I mean the one. You know, something that I didn't

175
00:12:59,400 --> 00:13:03,120
Speaker 1: know Bauck in UM two thousand and two that I

176
00:13:03,240 --> 00:13:07,440
Speaker 1: discovered this time around was that he had a sort

177
00:13:07,440 --> 00:13:13,120
Speaker 1: of three pronged strategy when it came to um stealing

178
00:13:13,480 --> 00:13:20,320
Speaker 1: from rich people, UM charm control and con and that

179
00:13:20,960 --> 00:13:23,840
Speaker 1: you know people. Back in two thousand and two, a

180
00:13:23,880 --> 00:13:27,719
Speaker 1: lot of my sources kept talking about Leslie Wexner, the

181
00:13:27,880 --> 00:13:35,520
Speaker 1: retail billionaire who owned Victorious secret A Limited m, as

182
00:13:35,679 --> 00:13:41,040
Speaker 1: sort of Epstein's main source of money. But in fact,

183
00:13:41,160 --> 00:13:47,679
Speaker 1: what I discovered UM in my recent reporting was that uh,

184
00:13:48,760 --> 00:13:56,040
Speaker 1: Jeffrey Epstein started um stealing from rich Europeans in the

185
00:13:56,160 --> 00:14:01,720
Speaker 1: nineteen eighties. He got involved in a white collar full

186
00:14:01,760 --> 00:14:06,839
Speaker 1: case um that was going on in New York UM.

187
00:14:07,800 --> 00:14:10,120
Speaker 1: Some of the victims of this food were a bunch

188
00:14:10,200 --> 00:14:14,160
Speaker 1: of Spanish families who Jeffrey Epstein got acquainted with and

189
00:14:14,200 --> 00:14:18,320
Speaker 1: had lost millions of dollars. And I described how Jeffrey

190
00:14:18,320 --> 00:14:22,800
Speaker 1: Epstein found some of this money, flew into the Cayman

191
00:14:22,840 --> 00:14:26,600
Speaker 1: Islands on a private plane, picked up a briefcase of

192
00:14:27,280 --> 00:14:30,760
Speaker 1: thirty million dollars or so in bear bonds, flew the

193
00:14:30,840 --> 00:14:36,200
Speaker 1: money back out two event ultimately to Switzerland, deposited it

194
00:14:36,280 --> 00:14:40,840
Speaker 1: into two bank accounts that because of the foreign exchange

195
00:14:41,880 --> 00:14:47,520
Speaker 1: rules at the time, up he had to take control

196
00:14:47,840 --> 00:14:49,960
Speaker 1: of the bank accounts, he had to take control of

197
00:14:50,000 --> 00:14:56,600
Speaker 1: this money. And when the Spanish families tried to reach

198
00:14:56,720 --> 00:15:01,040
Speaker 1: him because they needed access to to to their money

199
00:15:01,040 --> 00:15:03,440
Speaker 1: which they had originally was so grateful to him for

200
00:15:03,520 --> 00:15:06,560
Speaker 1: finding they find they couldn't they found they couldn't get

201
00:15:06,640 --> 00:15:11,200
Speaker 1: hold of him on the phone, and you know, and

202
00:15:11,240 --> 00:15:15,560
Speaker 1: they were too embarrassed, uh to really broadcast this fact.

203
00:15:15,840 --> 00:15:21,000
Speaker 1: And and and Jeffrey Epstein understood that, you know, a

204
00:15:21,120 --> 00:15:24,280
Speaker 1: very important truth about very wealthy people that if they

205
00:15:24,360 --> 00:15:28,840
Speaker 1: get cond if someone steals money from them, they don't

206
00:15:28,880 --> 00:15:32,880
Speaker 1: go to the FBI or to the police. They just

207
00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:35,400
Speaker 1: want their money back. They don't they don't want to

208
00:15:35,480 --> 00:15:39,680
Speaker 1: look um as if they've they've been foolish enough to

209
00:15:39,800 --> 00:15:44,000
Speaker 1: somehow be robbed. And he played upon this again and again.

210
00:15:44,560 --> 00:15:51,360
Speaker 1: So in the early nineties you can see um that

211
00:15:51,440 --> 00:15:57,720
Speaker 1: he his financial status changes very swiftly, um and very dramatically.

212
00:15:57,720 --> 00:16:01,320
Speaker 1: I mean, he goes from living in one bedroom apartment

213
00:16:02,000 --> 00:16:07,600
Speaker 1: in New York to owning a mansion in New York,

214
00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:12,400
Speaker 1: an apartment in Paris, are ranch in New Mexico, a

215
00:16:12,520 --> 00:16:17,920
Speaker 1: private island, numerous planes. And he does this and you know,

216
00:16:18,320 --> 00:16:21,720
Speaker 1: five or six years now it's true that Leslie Wexner

217
00:16:22,960 --> 00:16:26,400
Speaker 1: became a client of his around this time. But what

218
00:16:26,560 --> 00:16:31,480
Speaker 1: I also gathered for the first time in you know,

219
00:16:31,520 --> 00:16:39,440
Speaker 1: for for the documentary, was that he also stole a

220
00:16:39,520 --> 00:16:44,920
Speaker 1: lot of money, many millions, according to Steve Hoppenburg, his

221
00:16:45,000 --> 00:16:48,720
Speaker 1: business partner, who then went to jail for twenty years,

222
00:16:50,120 --> 00:16:55,320
Speaker 1: accused of basically running the biggest Ponzi scheme in American

223
00:16:55,400 --> 00:16:58,920
Speaker 1: history prior to Bernie made off Um. And what I

224
00:16:59,000 --> 00:17:03,440
Speaker 1: only you know discovered in time for the documentary was

225
00:17:03,520 --> 00:17:05,560
Speaker 1: that it was in fact Jeffrey Epstein who was the

226
00:17:05,600 --> 00:17:10,040
Speaker 1: mastermind of that whole Ponzi scheme, and he was able

227
00:17:10,119 --> 00:17:17,040
Speaker 1: to mate Hoffenberg's you know that the prophets they made

228
00:17:17,119 --> 00:17:23,520
Speaker 1: sort of disappear, and while Hoffenburg conveniently was silenced by

229
00:17:23,520 --> 00:17:28,239
Speaker 1: going to jail for twenty years. And the you know,

230
00:17:28,320 --> 00:17:34,000
Speaker 1: the pattern just I think repeats and repeats itself. Steve

231
00:17:34,040 --> 00:17:40,800
Speaker 1: Hoffenberg only um you know, only began to tell the

232
00:17:40,840 --> 00:17:44,840
Speaker 1: story of what happened once he got out of jail.

233
00:17:44,960 --> 00:17:47,119
Speaker 1: And it's hard to know whether to believe him, given

234
00:17:47,240 --> 00:17:51,720
Speaker 1: given his criminal record. But and you'll but you'll notice

235
00:17:51,800 --> 00:17:56,560
Speaker 1: Leslie Wetzner also only ever mentioned that Jeffrey Epstein stole

236
00:17:56,640 --> 00:18:03,119
Speaker 1: from him. After Jeffrey Epstein died. Um, there are you know,

237
00:18:03,440 --> 00:18:06,879
Speaker 1: even Leon Black, who paid him nearly a hundred and

238
00:18:06,880 --> 00:18:11,400
Speaker 1: seventy million dollars in fees for tax advice. Um has

239
00:18:11,480 --> 00:18:15,200
Speaker 1: said publicly that he and Jeffrey Epstein got into a

240
00:18:15,280 --> 00:18:20,080
Speaker 1: dispute about that money. UM, So that you know there

241
00:18:20,160 --> 00:18:23,560
Speaker 1: is a you know, I did come across a handful

242
00:18:23,640 --> 00:18:27,480
Speaker 1: of people who all told me how Jeffrey Epstein had

243
00:18:27,680 --> 00:18:30,719
Speaker 1: fleeced them, but they did not want to go on

244
00:18:30,760 --> 00:18:34,240
Speaker 1: the record out of share embarrassment. Well, and what's really

245
00:18:34,359 --> 00:18:37,400
Speaker 1: interesting is you would you had mentioned this we were

246
00:18:37,440 --> 00:18:40,600
Speaker 1: talking earlier, but you had interviewed him back in two

247
00:18:40,600 --> 00:18:42,560
Speaker 1: thousand and two. And some of the things that stood

248
00:18:42,560 --> 00:18:45,959
Speaker 1: out to me when you're recounting this conversation or these

249
00:18:46,000 --> 00:18:48,760
Speaker 1: conversations that you had with him, was that he had

250
00:18:48,760 --> 00:18:51,080
Speaker 1: told you that he had a darcier on you, he

251
00:18:51,240 --> 00:18:55,720
Speaker 1: threatened you. And then he also, very strangely and unprompted,

252
00:18:55,800 --> 00:18:58,560
Speaker 1: just said, when talking about Layne Maxwell, well she didn't

253
00:18:58,560 --> 00:19:00,800
Speaker 1: bring girls to him, which is such an odd thing

254
00:19:00,800 --> 00:19:03,560
Speaker 1: to say at the time because this was before you know,

255
00:19:03,600 --> 00:19:08,280
Speaker 1: these revelations had come out about you know what he

256
00:19:08,320 --> 00:19:11,159
Speaker 1: did to young girls. Well, that's right, and you know,

257
00:19:12,080 --> 00:19:15,200
Speaker 1: you know, as is sort of well known. Now, I

258
00:19:15,240 --> 00:19:21,919
Speaker 1: did find the farmer sisters, um, but they at the

259
00:19:22,000 --> 00:19:27,439
Speaker 1: time made no mention of other girls or recruiting trips,

260
00:19:27,960 --> 00:19:30,320
Speaker 1: you know, any farmers. Said to me, I bet there

261
00:19:30,320 --> 00:19:34,200
Speaker 1: are others, but she didn't know of any others. So

262
00:19:34,400 --> 00:19:37,200
Speaker 1: you are right when he said to me, Glenn doesn't

263
00:19:37,200 --> 00:19:41,560
Speaker 1: find girls for me. And I'm like, I didn't ask

264
00:19:41,600 --> 00:19:48,360
Speaker 1: you that it was. It was so completely confounding. I mean,

265
00:19:48,400 --> 00:19:51,359
Speaker 1: obviously not in hindsight, but at the time it was.

266
00:19:51,600 --> 00:19:54,399
Speaker 1: And did you just imagine you had talked about in

267
00:19:54,400 --> 00:19:59,159
Speaker 1: the documentary of just like how threatening and sinister he was.

268
00:19:59,200 --> 00:20:01,720
Speaker 1: I mean, at the time you're interviewing him, I assume

269
00:20:01,760 --> 00:20:03,840
Speaker 1: you just got this sense and this feeling of this

270
00:20:03,920 --> 00:20:06,480
Speaker 1: is a really bad guy. This is an evil guy

271
00:20:06,520 --> 00:20:08,960
Speaker 1: who was threatening you. You were giving birth at the time,

272
00:20:09,359 --> 00:20:11,560
Speaker 1: you know, talk about sort of that general feeling that

273
00:20:11,600 --> 00:20:14,320
Speaker 1: you got from him and his threats. You know, even

274
00:20:14,359 --> 00:20:17,600
Speaker 1: all these years later when I reread the transcripts of

275
00:20:17,680 --> 00:20:19,679
Speaker 1: my you know, and there are four hundred and fifty

276
00:20:19,760 --> 00:20:23,399
Speaker 1: pages of them. Unfortunately, because he bombarded with me with

277
00:20:23,520 --> 00:20:27,840
Speaker 1: daily phone calls. It still gives me the chills. It

278
00:20:27,920 --> 00:20:29,960
Speaker 1: gives me the absolute chills, because you have to remember

279
00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:35,680
Speaker 1: that in a sense um it became I mean, he

280
00:20:36,119 --> 00:20:38,280
Speaker 1: said at the beginning, this is like a game of chess.

281
00:20:39,160 --> 00:20:41,920
Speaker 1: You'd be white, you get the first move. And to him,

282
00:20:41,960 --> 00:20:43,520
Speaker 1: I think it was all a game. And when he

283
00:20:43,640 --> 00:20:48,920
Speaker 1: managed to you know somehow, you know, the farmer's sisters

284
00:20:48,960 --> 00:20:53,600
Speaker 1: were their allegations about him work cut out from my peace.

285
00:20:54,119 --> 00:20:58,720
Speaker 1: And he had been so creepy when talking about my

286
00:20:58,920 --> 00:21:03,200
Speaker 1: pregnancy and you know, threatening my unborn children, you know,

287
00:21:03,480 --> 00:21:06,840
Speaker 1: accurse from a witch doctor and wanting to know which

288
00:21:06,880 --> 00:21:10,360
Speaker 1: hospital I was giving birth in, and and and who

289
00:21:10,400 --> 00:21:14,080
Speaker 1: my doctors were. So when I then you know, there

290
00:21:14,160 --> 00:21:17,200
Speaker 1: was it was very very stressful, and my my my

291
00:21:17,320 --> 00:21:23,960
Speaker 1: doctor became deeply, deeply concerned, and you know, started say,

292
00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:25,840
Speaker 1: you know, I think you need to drop this piece.

293
00:21:25,920 --> 00:21:29,040
Speaker 1: This can't go one it's it's it's not it's not

294
00:21:29,080 --> 00:21:34,280
Speaker 1: good for your pregnancy. And and then you know, just

295
00:21:34,480 --> 00:21:38,159
Speaker 1: weeks after I that that piece went to press, but

296
00:21:38,280 --> 00:21:41,640
Speaker 1: before it came out, I went into labor very prematurely,

297
00:21:42,280 --> 00:21:45,399
Speaker 1: and my babies had to stay in the hospital for

298
00:21:45,480 --> 00:21:47,680
Speaker 1: two months. One of them and the other for one month.

299
00:21:48,080 --> 00:21:52,879
Speaker 1: But I literally believed, you know, as as I was

300
00:21:52,920 --> 00:21:57,720
Speaker 1: giving birth, and not ideal circumstances that you know, basically

301
00:21:57,800 --> 00:22:07,399
Speaker 1: Jeffrey Epstein had one. And so yeah, I mean for me, Um,

302
00:22:07,480 --> 00:22:10,600
Speaker 1: you know, I think I'll always be haunted by him.

303
00:22:11,560 --> 00:22:16,399
Speaker 1: I don't think I've ever encountered somebody work well, and

304
00:22:16,440 --> 00:22:21,280
Speaker 1: if he's willing to threaten you a reporter, it I mean,

305
00:22:22,160 --> 00:22:25,080
Speaker 1: what sort of information does he hold other over other people?

306
00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:27,439
Speaker 1: And and you know, how does he up? How did

307
00:22:27,480 --> 00:22:29,760
Speaker 1: he operate? Right? I mean it sort of paints this

308
00:22:29,840 --> 00:22:33,560
Speaker 1: picture of this guy who wields this power over people. Yeah,

309
00:22:33,960 --> 00:22:37,639
Speaker 1: that's exactly right and brazenly right. And I mean what

310
00:22:37,720 --> 00:22:39,480
Speaker 1: was so clever and ninsight was that, you know, what

311
00:22:39,560 --> 00:22:43,119
Speaker 1: was my achilles heel at the time, It was my

312
00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:48,720
Speaker 1: pregnancy and so one day he you know, honed in

313
00:22:48,840 --> 00:22:55,639
Speaker 1: on that and began making me feel super uncomfortable and unsafe. Um.

314
00:22:55,680 --> 00:22:57,240
Speaker 1: You know, when you're pregnant, you don't want to hear

315
00:22:57,320 --> 00:23:00,640
Speaker 1: that someone's carin tells you that they can get your

316
00:23:01,119 --> 00:23:04,040
Speaker 1: husband fired from their job. You know, you don't want

317
00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:07,359
Speaker 1: somebody asking you about your vaginal canal and I, you know,

318
00:23:07,440 --> 00:23:10,560
Speaker 1: in hindsight, I realized it was deliberately to put me

319
00:23:10,600 --> 00:23:12,560
Speaker 1: on my back foot. And I, you know, I began

320
00:23:12,600 --> 00:23:17,439
Speaker 1: to see how his extraordinary ability to manipulate would have

321
00:23:18,160 --> 00:23:20,600
Speaker 1: meant that you know, fourteen year old girls would have

322
00:23:20,640 --> 00:23:24,959
Speaker 1: been you know, played her in his hands. And I

323
00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:28,520
Speaker 1: suspect even people like Bill Gates, Yeah, they wouldn't have

324
00:23:28,560 --> 00:23:31,160
Speaker 1: seen him coming. Do you think he got to Vanity Fair?

325
00:23:31,200 --> 00:23:33,679
Speaker 1: Because you know they cut out You had talked to

326
00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:36,719
Speaker 1: these two sisters who made these allegations against him at

327
00:23:36,720 --> 00:23:39,520
Speaker 1: the time, Vanity Pair ended up Vanity Fair rather ended

328
00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:42,320
Speaker 1: up cutting it out of the piece. Um, do you

329
00:23:42,359 --> 00:23:44,600
Speaker 1: think he got to them? Look? Graydon card to the

330
00:23:44,720 --> 00:23:48,200
Speaker 1: editor had said that I didn't have the reporting. I've

331
00:23:48,600 --> 00:23:51,879
Speaker 1: said that I completely disagree. I had three on the

332
00:23:51,960 --> 00:23:59,439
Speaker 1: record contemporaneous sources. But I think that the Um, you know,

333
00:23:59,600 --> 00:24:04,400
Speaker 1: the big mystery is, you know, what was Jeffrey Epstein

334
00:24:04,800 --> 00:24:10,679
Speaker 1: doing in the Vanity Fair offices while My Peace was

335
00:24:10,720 --> 00:24:16,800
Speaker 1: being closed? You know, nobody has ever revealed or talked

336
00:24:16,840 --> 00:24:20,320
Speaker 1: about what went on in that meeting between him and

337
00:24:20,359 --> 00:24:23,400
Speaker 1: Graydon Carter. All I know is that the farmers were

338
00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:26,600
Speaker 1: in that article as it was going to press and

339
00:24:26,640 --> 00:24:30,119
Speaker 1: going through the final um you know stages back in

340
00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:33,280
Speaker 1: the day of you know, print and going to galley

341
00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:36,800
Speaker 1: and going through you know, we've gone through fact checkers,

342
00:24:36,800 --> 00:24:38,440
Speaker 1: and I got and I know that Jeffrey Epstein is

343
00:24:38,440 --> 00:24:40,120
Speaker 1: in the office is because I got an email from

344
00:24:40,119 --> 00:24:42,879
Speaker 1: a fact checker saying, good grief, you're not going to

345
00:24:42,960 --> 00:24:50,440
Speaker 1: believe in standing here in the office Jeffrey Epstein. And

346
00:24:50,760 --> 00:24:54,280
Speaker 1: after that, the Farmers get taken out of the article.

347
00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:56,400
Speaker 1: So you know, you'd have to ask gradon. I mean,

348
00:24:56,920 --> 00:24:59,600
Speaker 1: you know, people can draw their own conclusions, you know.

349
00:24:59,800 --> 00:25:02,280
Speaker 1: And and this whole predates when in two thousand and

350
00:25:02,320 --> 00:25:05,080
Speaker 1: eight he pleaded guilty to a felony charge of solicitation

351
00:25:05,560 --> 00:25:09,399
Speaker 1: of prostitution involving a minor. Why before his death he

352
00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:12,800
Speaker 1: was facing charges again, why was he facing charges and

353
00:25:13,040 --> 00:25:15,320
Speaker 1: what were those charges? Oh, you mean in two thousand

354
00:25:15,359 --> 00:25:19,600
Speaker 1: nineteen when he was re arrested exactly, So when he

355
00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:26,040
Speaker 1: was re arrested, um, he was you know this time

356
00:25:26,119 --> 00:25:30,359
Speaker 1: that he was charged with, you know, sexually abusing and

357
00:25:30,560 --> 00:25:37,960
Speaker 1: trafficking UM minus UM. And you know, the government did

358
00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:43,760
Speaker 1: did say in that original indictment that UM it was

359
00:25:43,800 --> 00:25:49,200
Speaker 1: a conspiracy. You know, there was the word conspirators, meaning

360
00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:53,920
Speaker 1: that other people were involved in his scheme. And one

361
00:25:53,920 --> 00:26:00,840
Speaker 1: of the reasons that I wanted two make the documentary

362
00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:05,840
Speaker 1: about with Glenn Maxwell as the focus point was because

363
00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:08,400
Speaker 1: when she when then you know, as we know, Jeffrey

364
00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:12,840
Speaker 1: Epstein then died before he could face trial for those charges,

365
00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:17,879
Speaker 1: and a year later, Glenn Maxwell was arrested and is

366
00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:25,359
Speaker 1: charged for basically helping him um traffic and abuse underage women,

367
00:26:26,359 --> 00:26:32,320
Speaker 1: which she denies. But what I really felt um when

368
00:26:32,320 --> 00:26:36,240
Speaker 1: Glenn Maxwell was arrested was that because I had known

369
00:26:36,320 --> 00:26:40,800
Speaker 1: her a bit um and because I knew that there

370
00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:47,199
Speaker 1: was much more to Jeffrey Epstein than the stories, than

371
00:26:47,320 --> 00:26:49,800
Speaker 1: just the girls, I knew that Glenn was a sort

372
00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:53,160
Speaker 1: of gateway to this sort of shadowy world of men

373
00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:57,640
Speaker 1: that Jeffrey controlled, and that Glenn might be the key

374
00:26:57,680 --> 00:27:00,720
Speaker 1: to sort of unlocking that and explaining it and finally

375
00:27:00,760 --> 00:27:06,080
Speaker 1: trying to get the answer to this seemingly unsolvable question,

376
00:27:06,119 --> 00:27:08,399
Speaker 1: which is how exactly did he make his money? Well,

377
00:27:08,440 --> 00:27:12,280
Speaker 1: and Epstein was also registered sex offender. Before I want

378
00:27:12,320 --> 00:27:14,840
Speaker 1: to talk about Glenn Moore in depth, before we do that,

379
00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:17,440
Speaker 1: I wanted to ask you, so, what's so interesting And

380
00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:20,280
Speaker 1: I didn't know this before your documentary either about her

381
00:27:20,359 --> 00:27:24,000
Speaker 1: dad Robert Maxwell. I mean, it's so weird because him

382
00:27:24,040 --> 00:27:26,639
Speaker 1: and Jeffrey Epstein sort of lived these pairs have lived

383
00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:30,240
Speaker 1: these parallel lives. I mean, they both had these alleged

384
00:27:30,560 --> 00:27:35,520
Speaker 1: dealings with foreign governments, murky finances, untimely deaths that raised

385
00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:38,679
Speaker 1: a lot of suspicions about how how they died, you know,

386
00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:42,359
Speaker 1: questions about you know, the way it was reported versus

387
00:27:42,359 --> 00:27:45,320
Speaker 1: what people think that happened. You know, talk a little

388
00:27:45,320 --> 00:27:48,159
Speaker 1: bit about her dad and you know the significance of that,

389
00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:49,960
Speaker 1: And I don't think people really know as much about

390
00:27:49,960 --> 00:27:54,000
Speaker 1: her dad. No, although ironically during his life, I mean,

391
00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:57,440
Speaker 1: the big difference between the two men, as you say, well, one,

392
00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:00,879
Speaker 1: I should say Robert Maxwell was a womanizer, but he

393
00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:04,320
Speaker 1: was certainly not known to be to have the same

394
00:28:04,359 --> 00:28:08,199
Speaker 1: kind of sickness that in predilection for underage girls that

395
00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:12,880
Speaker 1: Jeffrey Epstein had. But actually, you know, the the other

396
00:28:12,920 --> 00:28:15,760
Speaker 1: big difference was that Robert Maxwell, while he was alive,

397
00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:22,600
Speaker 1: was um in plain sight. He was somebody, he really

398
00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:26,399
Speaker 1: was who whose power broking was obvious for the world

399
00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:30,080
Speaker 1: to see. And whose great influence was there was palpable

400
00:28:30,119 --> 00:28:34,879
Speaker 1: because he was a global media tycoon UM and a

401
00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:39,160
Speaker 1: publishing someone who published scientific journals from various countries, which

402
00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:43,480
Speaker 1: meant that various political leaders, you know, they all wanted

403
00:28:43,520 --> 00:28:47,040
Speaker 1: to know what the different nations were doing, you know,

404
00:28:47,080 --> 00:28:50,320
Speaker 1: what their scientists were all developing. And Robert Maxwell had

405
00:28:50,360 --> 00:28:53,840
Speaker 1: the answers. UM. You know, he was somebody who before

406
00:28:53,840 --> 00:28:59,120
Speaker 1: he died, I think, control of the economy in Israel.

407
00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:03,320
Speaker 1: Um he had also, I mean he was he was

408
00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:09,360
Speaker 1: a polygulot. He had um at one point being a

409
00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:17,760
Speaker 1: British number of parliament Um. Ah, he was something who

410
00:29:17,760 --> 00:29:25,760
Speaker 1: did a lot of the negotiating between Russia and Israel. UM.

411
00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:28,680
Speaker 1: Just before his death he bought the New York Daily News,

412
00:29:28,720 --> 00:29:35,680
Speaker 1: which put him fairly squarely UM in New York. And

413
00:29:35,840 --> 00:29:40,360
Speaker 1: you know, he had done all this in an extraordinarily

414
00:29:40,480 --> 00:29:44,400
Speaker 1: short period of time. He'd he'd come from nothing, I mean,

415
00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:48,800
Speaker 1: his family was all wiped out in the Holocaust. He

416
00:29:48,880 --> 00:29:52,440
Speaker 1: came to England barely speaking the language, and in a

417
00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:57,000
Speaker 1: you know, in forty odd years he accomplished all of this.

418
00:29:57,840 --> 00:30:03,920
Speaker 1: But um and like Jeffrey Epstein, in the world that

419
00:30:03,960 --> 00:30:08,320
Speaker 1: he moved in. He was considered both very charismatic but

420
00:30:08,480 --> 00:30:15,400
Speaker 1: also cruel. Yeah, and he was very cruel um to

421
00:30:15,560 --> 00:30:19,840
Speaker 1: his children, even Gilene, who was said to be the

422
00:30:19,920 --> 00:30:24,520
Speaker 1: favorite Um and the other. You know. The other great

423
00:30:24,560 --> 00:30:27,160
Speaker 1: similarity between him and Jeffrey Epstein was he was very

424
00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:31,000
Speaker 1: controlling um. You know. I talked in the documentary about

425
00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:35,080
Speaker 1: how Jeffrey Epstein once he met Gilen Um there he

426
00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:38,600
Speaker 1: told her to lose weight, to stop smoking, stopped drinking.

427
00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:40,240
Speaker 1: You know, she did, and she she did all of

428
00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:42,240
Speaker 1: these things, and he was he could be quite abusive

429
00:30:42,280 --> 00:30:49,360
Speaker 1: to her in public. Um. Well, Robert Maxwell once fired uh,

430
00:30:49,840 --> 00:30:54,080
Speaker 1: one of Glenn's brothers because he had put quote unquote

431
00:30:54,120 --> 00:30:58,240
Speaker 1: love over duty. And you know, I described in the

432
00:30:58,320 --> 00:31:01,560
Speaker 1: documentary how you know, and his friends at Oxford dreaded

433
00:31:01,640 --> 00:31:06,000
Speaker 1: being invited back to their um her you know, they're

434
00:31:06,040 --> 00:31:11,200
Speaker 1: big palatial home which was close to Oxford, because her

435
00:31:11,240 --> 00:31:15,440
Speaker 1: father was so deeply unpleasant and I'm clearly unpleasantly Gilene.

436
00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:18,800
Speaker 1: At one point he came she was playing chess and

437
00:31:18,800 --> 00:31:21,800
Speaker 1: he came over and he just moved her chess piece

438
00:31:21,840 --> 00:31:25,720
Speaker 1: without it, without even speaking to her. It was it was,

439
00:31:25,880 --> 00:31:31,680
Speaker 1: you know, clearly and very dominating um, an aggressive thing

440
00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:35,400
Speaker 1: to do. And then I called the other parallel between

441
00:31:35,480 --> 00:31:39,960
Speaker 1: these two men with both appeared to be extraordinarily rich

442
00:31:40,920 --> 00:31:44,680
Speaker 1: UM and they were both crooks. I mean Robert Maxwell,

443
00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:49,400
Speaker 1: it was discovered the week after his death, had stolen

444
00:31:49,520 --> 00:31:53,040
Speaker 1: hundreds of millions of dollars from the pension funds of

445
00:31:53,080 --> 00:31:58,760
Speaker 1: his own employees. So huge similarities with Jeffrey Epstein. And

446
00:31:58,800 --> 00:32:01,840
Speaker 1: you know, suspicions that were murdered from you know people

447
00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:05,280
Speaker 1: that there has been the speculations you knew Glenn Maxwell

448
00:32:06,120 --> 00:32:10,400
Speaker 1: since you know what, what were your impressions of her?

449
00:32:10,560 --> 00:32:12,880
Speaker 1: You know what kind of what was that like? You no,

450
00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:15,760
Speaker 1: you know what was she like? From what I could tell.

451
00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:20,280
Speaker 1: You know, you would bump into her sporadically at parties

452
00:32:20,280 --> 00:32:22,200
Speaker 1: in New York. You know, you can hear from my accent.

453
00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:24,840
Speaker 1: I grew up in England, as did she. She's seven

454
00:32:24,920 --> 00:32:27,320
Speaker 1: years older than me. I went to Cambridge, she went

455
00:32:27,360 --> 00:32:31,800
Speaker 1: to Oxford and that you know, the Oxbridge set in

456
00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:37,239
Speaker 1: New York tends to know each other UM. And she

457
00:32:37,360 --> 00:32:40,960
Speaker 1: would sort of show up sporadically, and she was this

458
00:32:41,080 --> 00:32:49,840
Speaker 1: sort of very glamorous, deeply charming, um charismatic person who

459
00:32:49,880 --> 00:32:55,840
Speaker 1: would kind of dominate conversation. People were very attracted to

460
00:32:55,920 --> 00:32:59,000
Speaker 1: her and she and she had these extraordinary stories about

461
00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:03,360
Speaker 1: learning to fly helicopters, or she'd just been traveling with

462
00:33:03,400 --> 00:33:07,800
Speaker 1: Bill Clinton, or she'd just been to dinner with Henry kissingel,

463
00:33:07,920 --> 00:33:12,040
Speaker 1: she just got back from some far flung place, and

464
00:33:12,080 --> 00:33:20,000
Speaker 1: you never quite knew what exactly, uh she was up to,

465
00:33:20,120 --> 00:33:22,360
Speaker 1: but you've got the distinct impression that it was rather

466
00:33:22,600 --> 00:33:25,320
Speaker 1: clap for us than what the rest of us were doing.

467
00:33:25,480 --> 00:33:30,520
Speaker 1: I me, I did wonder, what does she actually do?

468
00:33:31,200 --> 00:33:35,120
Speaker 1: And I also wondered because I was familiar with her

469
00:33:35,160 --> 00:33:38,480
Speaker 1: father's disgrace, and I was familiar with the fact that

470
00:33:38,480 --> 00:33:43,040
Speaker 1: after you know that, after he died, the Maxwell family

471
00:33:43,840 --> 00:33:48,040
Speaker 1: went from being incredibly wealthy to being penniless. And it

472
00:33:48,120 --> 00:33:51,800
Speaker 1: was very important, certainly in Britain, that they appeared to

473
00:33:51,800 --> 00:33:54,640
Speaker 1: be penniless because they because so many of the people

474
00:33:54,680 --> 00:33:58,520
Speaker 1: who'd worked for them were left high and dry after

475
00:33:58,600 --> 00:34:02,000
Speaker 1: what Robert Maxwell did to them. So I when I

476
00:34:02,040 --> 00:34:06,440
Speaker 1: saw Gillen, and I saw the designer clothes and the uh,

477
00:34:06,480 --> 00:34:09,600
Speaker 1: you know, I heard that her town house was incredibly

478
00:34:10,280 --> 00:34:14,080
Speaker 1: um not sure you know that it was decorated in

479
00:34:14,200 --> 00:34:18,840
Speaker 1: a sort of over the top. UM. I did wonder.

480
00:34:20,120 --> 00:34:25,040
Speaker 1: I did wonder, well, where how comes she's got all

481
00:34:25,120 --> 00:34:28,560
Speaker 1: this money? I did wonder about that obviously when the

482
00:34:28,600 --> 00:34:33,319
Speaker 1: farmers told me their allegations and I had to talk

483
00:34:33,360 --> 00:34:35,239
Speaker 1: to her about that, and we had an off the

484
00:34:35,280 --> 00:34:42,640
Speaker 1: record conversation that was really really unpleasant. UM. I thought

485
00:34:42,719 --> 00:34:45,480
Speaker 1: to myself, what, you know, it really weird that she

486
00:34:45,520 --> 00:34:48,640
Speaker 1: would be mixed up with Jeffrey Epstein and just really,

487
00:34:50,080 --> 00:34:54,120
Speaker 1: you know, this is sort of it's strange behavior. And

488
00:34:54,120 --> 00:34:57,160
Speaker 1: I remember she didn't tell me. I mean, I didn't

489
00:34:57,200 --> 00:34:59,319
Speaker 1: know that there was no talk because there has been

490
00:34:59,360 --> 00:35:04,320
Speaker 1: sense of creating trips or other girls. UM. But even so,

491
00:35:04,520 --> 00:35:10,480
Speaker 1: what the farmer said was pretty weird at best at best. UM.

492
00:35:10,600 --> 00:35:15,280
Speaker 1: And uh so, I you know, I kind of really

493
00:35:15,320 --> 00:35:20,759
Speaker 1: hope I wouldn't ran into her. Um after that. But

494
00:35:20,840 --> 00:35:26,400
Speaker 1: in that a few years later, she popped up somewhere

495
00:35:27,160 --> 00:35:31,960
Speaker 1: and came over to talk, and she had with her

496
00:35:32,560 --> 00:35:38,239
Speaker 1: this this boyfriend, Ted Waite, whom my husband at the

497
00:35:38,280 --> 00:35:42,080
Speaker 1: time was completely in awe of because Ted Waite made weight,

498
00:35:42,280 --> 00:35:48,640
Speaker 1: was self made billionaire. You know, we had this computer company, Gateway,

499
00:35:48,680 --> 00:35:51,480
Speaker 1: and my husband was an investment banker for the for

500
00:35:51,560 --> 00:35:56,280
Speaker 1: that space, so he was thrilled. But she seemed then

501
00:35:56,400 --> 00:35:59,600
Speaker 1: to have a completely She moved to the West coast

502
00:36:00,440 --> 00:36:05,040
Speaker 1: to be with Ted Waite. Um, she was piloting a submarine.

503
00:36:05,120 --> 00:36:09,480
Speaker 1: She was decorating Ted Waite's yacht, she seemed. And she

504
00:36:09,800 --> 00:36:12,680
Speaker 1: was doing a lot of work with the Clintons in

505
00:36:14,760 --> 00:36:18,560
Speaker 1: for the Clinton Global Initiative, and she was beginning to

506
00:36:18,600 --> 00:36:21,800
Speaker 1: talk on and on about the need to save the oceans.

507
00:36:22,160 --> 00:36:27,920
Speaker 1: And she seemed, Um, it was as if you know,

508
00:36:28,160 --> 00:36:30,480
Speaker 1: you know, I never asked her about Jeffrey Epstein, but

509
00:36:30,520 --> 00:36:35,040
Speaker 1: it was sort of it was made clear that Jeffrey

510
00:36:35,040 --> 00:36:43,200
Speaker 1: Epstein was certainly no part of her life these days. Um,

511
00:36:43,280 --> 00:36:45,920
Speaker 1: which was at the time a good thing, because Jeffrey

512
00:36:45,920 --> 00:36:49,640
Speaker 1: Epstein was busy going to jail the first time around, um,

513
00:36:49,680 --> 00:36:54,480
Speaker 1: you know, accused on state charges of soliciting an underage

514
00:36:55,520 --> 00:37:01,080
Speaker 1: ah prostitute and on prostitute in charges, which we now

515
00:37:01,160 --> 00:37:05,720
Speaker 1: know was a ridiculously becushy sentence given the other allegations

516
00:37:05,760 --> 00:37:07,920
Speaker 1: that were out there and what the FEDS had found

517
00:37:07,960 --> 00:37:12,200
Speaker 1: in their own investigation. But you know, Gilenn Maxwell seemed

518
00:37:12,200 --> 00:37:15,440
Speaker 1: to be on a completely different trajectory in a completely

519
00:37:15,440 --> 00:37:21,239
Speaker 1: different world, literally on the other side of America. And

520
00:37:21,360 --> 00:37:30,560
Speaker 1: then Um, Virginia Roberts published that photograph of herself with

521
00:37:30,719 --> 00:37:34,600
Speaker 1: Prince Andrew when she was only seventeen, with Gilenn Maxwell

522
00:37:34,719 --> 00:37:39,239
Speaker 1: smiling on in the background, and that then turned into

523
00:37:39,840 --> 00:37:46,040
Speaker 1: um civil litigation where Virginia publicly accused Prince Andrew and

524
00:37:46,239 --> 00:37:53,319
Speaker 1: other famous American men of sexually abusing her, which they've

525
00:37:53,320 --> 00:37:56,200
Speaker 1: all denied. But she then wound up in civil litigation

526
00:37:56,239 --> 00:37:59,200
Speaker 1: with gilln Maxwell, who had accused her of lying, and

527
00:37:59,800 --> 00:38:06,480
Speaker 1: for Ginia's suit Gillen for for defamation, and you know,

528
00:38:06,680 --> 00:38:11,240
Speaker 1: ultimately all of that civil litigation. You know, David Boys,

529
00:38:11,320 --> 00:38:15,680
Speaker 1: Virginia's Robert Virginia's lawyer told me that he was determined

530
00:38:15,719 --> 00:38:17,920
Speaker 1: that he was going to bang a drama until the

531
00:38:17,960 --> 00:38:22,160
Speaker 1: media and the FEDS took notice of what was going

532
00:38:22,200 --> 00:38:27,840
Speaker 1: on in these civil depositions, and ultimately he got traction.

533
00:38:27,880 --> 00:38:32,240
Speaker 1: I means the Miami Herald published its excellent series about

534
00:38:32,960 --> 00:38:38,160
Speaker 1: Jeffrey Epstein's crimes and the miscarriage of justice that has

535
00:38:38,200 --> 00:38:41,320
Speaker 1: sort of gone on at the FBI, and then Congress

536
00:38:42,320 --> 00:38:49,480
Speaker 1: woke up um and revitalized the FBI, who then you know,

537
00:38:50,840 --> 00:38:54,759
Speaker 1: reinvestigated Jeffrey Epstein as we've talked about, and in turn

538
00:38:56,320 --> 00:39:01,120
Speaker 1: investigated Gillen Maxwell. UM. But you know there was a

539
00:39:01,400 --> 00:39:09,520
Speaker 1: Were it not for Prince Andrew and his global celebrity,

540
00:39:09,960 --> 00:39:12,680
Speaker 1: I don't think she would be where she is today.

541
00:39:12,680 --> 00:39:16,000
Speaker 1: And I don't think Jeffrey Epstein would have been re

542
00:39:16,200 --> 00:39:19,960
Speaker 1: arrested because even after Jeffrey Epstein got out of jail

543
00:39:20,000 --> 00:39:23,440
Speaker 1: the first time around, he still wasn't a household name.

544
00:39:24,320 --> 00:39:28,560
Speaker 1: You know, he was rehabilitating himself in private. He had

545
00:39:28,560 --> 00:39:34,799
Speaker 1: all these famous and important global leaders come to see him.

546
00:39:34,840 --> 00:39:39,160
Speaker 1: He wasn't out in public UM and no one and

547
00:39:39,160 --> 00:39:42,719
Speaker 1: and Gilen Maxwell didn't have the kind of celebrity that

548
00:39:42,760 --> 00:39:45,880
Speaker 1: Prince Andrew did. But once you throw Prince Andrew's name around,

549
00:39:46,920 --> 00:39:54,000
Speaker 1: suddenly this this takes on epic notoriety. Really quick commercial

550
00:39:54,040 --> 00:39:57,400
Speaker 1: break back with Vicky Ward about the Glen Maxwell trial

551
00:39:57,760 --> 00:40:08,240
Speaker 1: after the break So, the prosecution, to my knowledge, isn't

552
00:40:08,360 --> 00:40:11,840
Speaker 1: using Virginia as a witness. Why is that if the

553
00:40:11,880 --> 00:40:15,800
Speaker 1: allegations that she's made are true. So I just wrote

554
00:40:15,880 --> 00:40:21,960
Speaker 1: actually a sub Steck newsletter about this um that you know,

555
00:40:22,160 --> 00:40:24,479
Speaker 1: it is a it is a great question, right, Why

556
00:40:24,719 --> 00:40:27,440
Speaker 1: is the woman who's really at the heart of this

557
00:40:27,520 --> 00:40:30,760
Speaker 1: trial and whose name has now come up several times.

558
00:40:30,800 --> 00:40:36,560
Speaker 1: You know, why is she not there? And um, you know,

559
00:40:36,640 --> 00:40:47,440
Speaker 1: it's been explained to me that um, prosecutors, given that

560
00:40:48,520 --> 00:40:53,400
Speaker 1: Gillen Maxwell's defense lawyers have spent years at this point

561
00:40:54,280 --> 00:40:59,880
Speaker 1: getting discovery on Virginia Uh Roberts because of the civils

562
00:41:00,000 --> 00:41:07,279
Speaker 1: it that um, she could it's she could end up

563
00:41:07,320 --> 00:41:12,200
Speaker 1: being a sideshow and a distraction and a sort of

564
00:41:12,320 --> 00:41:16,600
Speaker 1: red herring because in most federal prosecutions, witnesses have not

565
00:41:16,760 --> 00:41:22,000
Speaker 1: already provided deposition testimony, they haven't already been cross examined,

566
00:41:22,960 --> 00:41:30,040
Speaker 1: and therefore the defense doesn't have all sorts of information

567
00:41:30,719 --> 00:41:35,960
Speaker 1: that they could use to attack. And so UM, you know,

568
00:41:36,080 --> 00:41:43,440
Speaker 1: I think that uh, they would know all of Virginia's

569
00:41:43,600 --> 00:41:46,400
Speaker 1: we you know, the defense by now, no Virginia Roberts

570
00:41:46,400 --> 00:41:49,000
Speaker 1: extremely well, they would know all of her weaknesses. And

571
00:41:49,040 --> 00:41:56,799
Speaker 1: it's probably tactically not a great idea therefore, UM to

572
00:41:56,840 --> 00:41:59,960
Speaker 1: call her up. Has there been any inconsistencies with the

573
00:42:00,080 --> 00:42:02,880
Speaker 1: things she has said? Yeah, and she's even admitted that

574
00:42:02,960 --> 00:42:07,560
Speaker 1: they have. Um, she's even said that she's she's that

575
00:42:07,880 --> 00:42:11,960
Speaker 1: that yes, that she's got dates and times wrong. I

576
00:42:11,960 --> 00:42:14,279
Speaker 1: mean she said, look, I remember the faces, but have

577
00:42:14,440 --> 00:42:18,080
Speaker 1: I have I got things wrong? Are there inconsistencies? Yes?

578
00:42:18,800 --> 00:42:23,759
Speaker 1: And therefore, um, you know, having been in court the

579
00:42:23,840 --> 00:42:31,719
Speaker 1: last where are we report dated three days? Um? Um?

580
00:42:31,880 --> 00:42:38,240
Speaker 1: Watching Gillen Maxwell's defense lawyers really really attack the first

581
00:42:38,239 --> 00:42:44,320
Speaker 1: government witness that we've seen, really hammer on any inconsistencies

582
00:42:44,719 --> 00:42:49,960
Speaker 1: in previous statements, you can see why given that Virginia

583
00:42:50,000 --> 00:42:53,680
Speaker 1: Roberts has already said yes, I realized they're inconsistency, she

584
00:42:53,680 --> 00:42:56,279
Speaker 1: wouldn't be an ideal witness for that. So you you

585
00:42:56,320 --> 00:42:58,840
Speaker 1: know more about this than most, right you you have

586
00:42:58,880 --> 00:43:03,080
Speaker 1: a podcast single ane, you've done this documentary, you've been

587
00:43:03,120 --> 00:43:08,160
Speaker 1: at this trial. Have you learned anything new from it? What?

588
00:43:08,160 --> 00:43:10,440
Speaker 1: What has stood out to you? Sort of? You know,

589
00:43:11,360 --> 00:43:13,880
Speaker 1: you know, as anything to surprise you about this trial?

590
00:43:13,960 --> 00:43:17,080
Speaker 1: So far, I think from what I see in that

591
00:43:17,239 --> 00:43:24,440
Speaker 1: courtroom that Glenn Maxwell and her defense attorneys are very

592
00:43:24,600 --> 00:43:31,600
Speaker 1: very confident. And so far why do you think that is? Well,

593
00:43:31,640 --> 00:43:39,560
Speaker 1: so far they have been very effective, and the government's

594
00:43:40,800 --> 00:43:46,239
Speaker 1: opening witness was far great who who was one of

595
00:43:46,280 --> 00:43:51,880
Speaker 1: Epstein's pilots was basically far greater asset for the defense

596
00:43:52,040 --> 00:43:56,080
Speaker 1: than he was for the prosecution. He said that he'd

597
00:43:56,120 --> 00:43:59,080
Speaker 1: never seen any underage women on the plains in the

598
00:43:59,120 --> 00:44:02,680
Speaker 1: thirty years he'd fle Epstein's planes. He said he'd never

599
00:44:02,680 --> 00:44:06,640
Speaker 1: seen any sex. He said that to his knowledge, Gilenn

600
00:44:06,680 --> 00:44:11,440
Speaker 1: Maxwell and Jeffrey Epstein were never romantically involved. Um. He

601
00:44:11,600 --> 00:44:16,239
Speaker 1: talked about how much she liked Gilenn Maxwell. He talked

602
00:44:16,239 --> 00:44:19,120
Speaker 1: about the fact that he felt his younger daughters were

603
00:44:19,120 --> 00:44:21,440
Speaker 1: completely safe in her care and how she taught them

604
00:44:21,480 --> 00:44:29,719
Speaker 1: to ride and um, essentially, um, you know, one was

605
00:44:29,800 --> 00:44:35,479
Speaker 1: left wondering why on earth the the government had thought

606
00:44:35,560 --> 00:44:40,439
Speaker 1: it was a good idea to open with him. And

607
00:44:40,560 --> 00:44:44,239
Speaker 1: you know, their second witness was the first of four

608
00:44:45,719 --> 00:44:51,360
Speaker 1: women and female accusers who have accused, you know, GILLN.

609
00:44:51,440 --> 00:44:57,920
Speaker 1: Maxwell of enabling Jeffrey Epstein's sex crimes. And you know,

610
00:44:57,960 --> 00:45:04,200
Speaker 1: the defense said, and they're opening arguments that um. That

611
00:45:04,320 --> 00:45:08,840
Speaker 1: that in that they are going to argue that Glenn

612
00:45:08,960 --> 00:45:14,000
Speaker 1: Maxwell is on trial because of poor memories, well three

613
00:45:14,200 --> 00:45:18,000
Speaker 1: ms memory manipulation and money. They are going to argue

614
00:45:18,040 --> 00:45:23,000
Speaker 1: that these women may have been abused by Jeffrey Epstein,

615
00:45:23,160 --> 00:45:27,560
Speaker 1: but that after his death there was a large amount

616
00:45:27,600 --> 00:45:34,840
Speaker 1: of money available and that self interested civil lawyers have

617
00:45:34,960 --> 00:45:39,359
Speaker 1: manipulated them and manipulated their memories so that they now

618
00:45:39,400 --> 00:45:43,439
Speaker 1: to tell a completely different story about Glenn Maxwell. Ah.

619
00:45:43,960 --> 00:45:49,680
Speaker 1: Then they did before Jeffrey Epstein's death. And they certainly

620
00:45:49,680 --> 00:45:54,239
Speaker 1: made the case today that you know, they accused. Oh,

621
00:45:54,320 --> 00:45:59,680
Speaker 1: they insinuated that Jane the pseudonym the accuser used today

622
00:46:00,440 --> 00:46:08,120
Speaker 1: UM was Um incentivized too to be a witness for

623
00:46:08,120 --> 00:46:13,400
Speaker 1: the government. She was advised by Ah. She was advised

624
00:46:13,920 --> 00:46:16,960
Speaker 1: that by doing that it would increase the amount of

625
00:46:17,040 --> 00:46:19,960
Speaker 1: money she was likely to get from the Epstein victims

626
00:46:20,040 --> 00:46:23,160
Speaker 1: compensation fund. And she was fourteen? Is this the one

627
00:46:23,320 --> 00:46:25,919
Speaker 1: she was? She was fourteen allegedly at the time where

628
00:46:26,120 --> 00:46:28,720
Speaker 1: Maxwell and Epstein went up to her. Is that correct?

629
00:46:29,320 --> 00:46:31,800
Speaker 1: She she says, she yes, She says she was thoughting

630
00:46:31,920 --> 00:46:35,880
Speaker 1: when Maxwell and Epstein went up to her. But you

631
00:46:35,880 --> 00:46:38,960
Speaker 1: know what and and heard the story that she told

632
00:46:39,200 --> 00:46:47,200
Speaker 1: was was horrifying. UM. But the defense on cross examination

633
00:46:47,960 --> 00:46:52,080
Speaker 1: contrasted what she said in front of the jury today

634
00:46:52,239 --> 00:46:57,440
Speaker 1: and yes, sorry yesterday, with what she had told the

635
00:46:57,600 --> 00:47:02,200
Speaker 1: FBI UM and the government in the last two years.

636
00:47:02,440 --> 00:47:04,480
Speaker 1: And what she said in the last two years to

637
00:47:04,520 --> 00:47:08,200
Speaker 1: the government and the FBI was that she couldn't remember

638
00:47:08,280 --> 00:47:12,120
Speaker 1: Gyllen Maxwell ever being in the room when Jeffrey Epstein

639
00:47:12,160 --> 00:47:17,680
Speaker 1: abused her, and that she couldn't recall Jeffrey Epstein. Um,

640
00:47:17,760 --> 00:47:21,920
Speaker 1: uh sorry, she and she she couldn't accall recall with

641
00:47:22,040 --> 00:47:28,680
Speaker 1: Gilen Maxwell had ever ah been involved in sexual abuse

642
00:47:29,120 --> 00:47:31,760
Speaker 1: and when asked if she remembered these conversations with the government,

643
00:47:31,800 --> 00:47:36,359
Speaker 1: she couldn't recall them. So it's you know, this is

644
00:47:36,440 --> 00:47:42,000
Speaker 1: this is you know, this is a more complicated trial.

645
00:47:43,120 --> 00:47:49,400
Speaker 1: I think then the you know, the the trials of

646
00:47:49,520 --> 00:47:53,120
Speaker 1: people like Harvey Weinstein or Bill Cosby or r Kelly,

647
00:47:53,200 --> 00:48:02,920
Speaker 1: because because the central abuser is dead and so the

648
00:48:02,920 --> 00:48:08,759
Speaker 1: the issue here is that, um, this trial is sort

649
00:48:08,800 --> 00:48:11,520
Speaker 1: of all about Jeffrey Epstein. His name comes up again

650
00:48:11,600 --> 00:48:13,680
Speaker 1: and again and again and again and again. And the

651
00:48:13,760 --> 00:48:20,600
Speaker 1: question is can the government approved that Gillen Maxwell um

652
00:48:20,640 --> 00:48:25,600
Speaker 1: intentionally did the things she's accused of, and you know,

653
00:48:25,640 --> 00:48:28,720
Speaker 1: the crime, the charges of them very very long time ago.

654
00:48:29,280 --> 00:48:33,040
Speaker 1: There's no documentation that we've seen so far. I mean, look,

655
00:48:33,040 --> 00:48:36,560
Speaker 1: we're very early into it, um, but I think right

656
00:48:36,600 --> 00:48:39,600
Speaker 1: now the mood in that courtroom is that people are

657
00:48:39,640 --> 00:48:43,040
Speaker 1: surprised at how effective this defense is and and just

658
00:48:43,080 --> 00:48:45,080
Speaker 1: to be clear with the audience, we know Jeffrey Epstein

659
00:48:45,239 --> 00:48:46,960
Speaker 1: is a terrible human being. This is a guy who

660
00:48:46,960 --> 00:48:50,560
Speaker 1: pled guilty to fell any charge of solicitation of prostitution

661
00:48:50,640 --> 00:48:52,480
Speaker 1: involving a minor. You know, this is a guy who's

662
00:48:52,560 --> 00:48:55,480
Speaker 1: registered sex offender. We know he did terrible things. The

663
00:48:55,560 --> 00:48:59,480
Speaker 1: question is about, uh, you know, Glenn Maxwell and getting

664
00:48:59,520 --> 00:49:01,640
Speaker 1: to the bottom if if, if she did the things

665
00:49:01,680 --> 00:49:04,560
Speaker 1: that the prosecution is alleging, which is essentially, you know,

666
00:49:04,600 --> 00:49:07,600
Speaker 1: she helped groom these women to bring them to Jeffrey Epstein,

667
00:49:08,000 --> 00:49:11,239
Speaker 1: and she was culpable and all of this, and that's

668
00:49:11,239 --> 00:49:13,680
Speaker 1: really at the heart of the trial. As you mentioned,

669
00:49:13,719 --> 00:49:16,279
Speaker 1: you know, I know you've got to go. You've had

670
00:49:16,280 --> 00:49:18,799
Speaker 1: a really busy week and in a busy day. Where

671
00:49:18,800 --> 00:49:21,799
Speaker 1: can people watch your documentary? I watched it. I found

672
00:49:21,800 --> 00:49:24,800
Speaker 1: it fascinating. Where can people watch it and where should

673
00:49:24,800 --> 00:49:30,080
Speaker 1: they go to see it? Streaming right now on Discovery

674
00:49:30,120 --> 00:49:37,360
Speaker 1: Plus and there is special on Friday night UM on

675
00:49:37,520 --> 00:49:43,680
Speaker 1: I d three hours special great so a p m. Eastern. Uh,

676
00:49:43,719 --> 00:49:46,520
Speaker 1: it was super interesting, So I encourage people to go

677
00:49:46,560 --> 00:49:49,319
Speaker 1: watch it. I learned a ton from it. Vicky, I

678
00:49:49,320 --> 00:49:51,360
Speaker 1: know you've had an extremely busy week. I thank you

679
00:49:51,400 --> 00:49:54,239
Speaker 1: so much for your time and providing all this information

680
00:49:54,600 --> 00:49:56,640
Speaker 1: for my listeners. I hope you have a wonderful night.

681
00:49:56,800 --> 00:50:09,400
Speaker 1: Thank you, Lisa, Okay, take care. Yeah. I want to

682
00:50:09,400 --> 00:50:13,520
Speaker 1: thank Vicky Ward again for such an interesting and fascinating interview.

683
00:50:13,560 --> 00:50:15,439
Speaker 1: I learned so much. I hope you guys did too,

684
00:50:15,960 --> 00:50:17,720
Speaker 1: and I want to thank you at home for listening.

685
00:50:17,760 --> 00:50:20,240
Speaker 1: If you enjoy today's show, please leave us a review,

686
00:50:20,320 --> 00:50:23,160
Speaker 1: rate US five stars and Apple Podcast. You can find

687
00:50:23,160 --> 00:50:26,160
Speaker 1: me on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, at at least some rebooth.

688
00:50:26,360 --> 00:50:29,120
Speaker 1: I want to thank your team, producer John Cassio, our

689
00:50:29,160 --> 00:50:32,719
Speaker 1: executive producers Wi Myers, and speaker New Gingridge, all part

690
00:50:32,719 --> 00:50:35,959
Speaker 1: of the Gingridge three sixty network and team