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Speaker 1: Taking a Walk.

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Speaker 2: Music has its demands as well. When we're a musician,

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Speaker 2: sometimes we're a bit like an actor and we have

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Speaker 2: to be what the music needs us to be. Sometimes

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Speaker 2: we have to draw on all our temperamental possibilities to

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Speaker 2: be able to realize the music. So do's that as

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Speaker 2: well as who we really are? And two we are

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Speaker 2: for the music and there's many levels.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Taking a Walk podcast, where your host

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Speaker 1: Buzz Night features guests that share their stories and speak

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Speaker 1: of their love of music. On this episode, we explore

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Speaker 1: the world of chamber music with a man who has

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Speaker 1: had a remarkable career as a conductor, a cellist, and

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Speaker 1: a keyboardist. The eighte and H Society was founded in

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Speaker 1: eighteen fifteen and Jonathan, at the age of forty four,

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Speaker 1: is one of their youngest artistic directors in history. The

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Speaker 1: new season of H and H is called What's Old

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Speaker 1: It's New Again. Let's join Buzz and Jonathan and Boston

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Speaker 1: on Taking a Walk.

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Speaker 3: Well, Jonathan, thanks for having me here. Can you describe

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Speaker 3: what is on this wall here? First?

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Speaker 2: Jonathan, Well, there's a lot of music there that's all

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Speaker 2: all nicely organized. Look, there's you and Sebastian Bach's magnificat

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Speaker 2: mass in g Minor. There's a ton I won't read

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Speaker 2: out all the names, but there's a lot of repertoire

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Speaker 2: and music that the organization has been performing for years here.

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Speaker 3: I'd imagine, Yeah, is it someone's responsibility to put these

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Speaker 3: in files here?

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I would imagine the Absolutely. We have to

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Speaker 2: keep a nicely ordered lot of sheet music, you know, musicians,

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Speaker 2: we write our boeings and markings in there, and so

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Speaker 2: there's a lot of history in nice pages. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Well, congratulations on the new appointment as the artistic director.

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Speaker 3: Tell me how it feels. How excited are you?

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Speaker 2: I'm very excited. It feels great. It's a wonderful chance

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Speaker 2: to do to do really great music here in Boston

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Speaker 2: with fantastic musicians. And I'm thrilled to be here.

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Speaker 3: And how about just being in Boston in general, and

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Speaker 3: how does that?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a fantastic place. I'm very I'm really I

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Speaker 2: feel a lot of energy here. You know, I don't

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Speaker 2: know if that's if that's if you feel that too,

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Speaker 2: but it feels to me that there's a lot of

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Speaker 2: a lot of love and love for music, a lot

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Speaker 2: of energy of culture here. It's a it's an exciting place.

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Speaker 3: It is I always feel that way coming into the city.

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Speaker 3: I live out in the suburbs, but coming to Boston

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Speaker 3: is always a true joy in getting to meet you

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Speaker 3: is a joy. Since it's called taking a walk. Do

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Speaker 3: you like taking walks in cities like Boston?

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Speaker 2: I do. I like walking a lot. It's often walked

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Speaker 2: to rehessals, and you know, especially if it's a nice

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Speaker 2: day like today with the sun shining, it's pleasure. I

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Speaker 2: like hiking as well. I do quite a lot of that.

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Speaker 2: Something very very healthy and lovely to be outdoors, I think.

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Speaker 3: And when you're in the midst of a long day

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Speaker 3: of rehearsals, is it a welcome moment to just go

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Speaker 3: clear your head and take a walk?

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Speaker 2: Absolutely? Yeah, absolutely, yeah. You know, being in one room

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Speaker 2: all day working, it's nice to get out, isn't it,

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Speaker 2: and go and find a spot of lunch and nice coffee,

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Speaker 2: walk around a little bit. Absolutely.

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Speaker 3: So talk specifically about some of your background that you

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Speaker 3: think has essentially really prepared you for this new work

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Speaker 3: you'll be part of.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well I was a cellist to start off with. Well, actually,

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Speaker 2: that's not entirely. I was a pianist. I started piano

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Speaker 2: when I was very little, and then I got into

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Speaker 2: the cello when I was about aged eight, and I,

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Speaker 2: you know, I did a lot of chamber music. I

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Speaker 2: think that that helped prepare me a lot, because I

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Speaker 2: think Barack music is a lot about chamber music. So

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Speaker 2: I played in string quartets, and I used to go

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Speaker 2: on summer courses as a kid, to chamber music courses,

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Speaker 2: you know, playing chamber mus music. And yeah, so so

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Speaker 2: I found Borock music a little bit later when I

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Speaker 2: was at Cambridge. I went to university and I studied

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Speaker 2: music there and I got into the you know, with

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Speaker 2: the beautiful chapel choirs and the music there. I used

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Speaker 2: to enjoy putting, putting things together, and I had lots

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Speaker 2: of friends who were singers and instrumentalists, and I always

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Speaker 2: sort of, you know, found a nice piece of music

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Speaker 2: from the library, something a bit interesting, and said, hey,

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Speaker 2: wonder what this sounds like. Let's get together and play it.

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Speaker 2: So I was always fascinated with the idea of just

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Speaker 2: bringing people together to play, to play music that we

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Speaker 2: didn't know, and that was always my sort of driving

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Speaker 2: motivation really.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and it's still something that you have the same

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Speaker 3: passion as to when you started.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, I always always loved discovering new, new music. And

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Speaker 2: there's so much music. It's almost like you'll never run

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Speaker 2: out this in the past. You know, it's music from everywhere.

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Speaker 2: And that's one of the great pleasures about music really,

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Speaker 2: it's sort of it's never ending possibilities and new combinations,

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Speaker 2: of infinite combinations of notes to put together. And you know,

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Speaker 2: each time we make it, it's we make it. We

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Speaker 2: make it a new with with people, with different people,

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Speaker 2: and and you make a note and then it disappears

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Speaker 2: and it's gone forever, and you then get together and

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Speaker 2: do it again. That's the great thing about music.

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Speaker 3: It So, is there going to be a particular theme

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Speaker 3: to this new season?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well, you know, the I think there's we liking.

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Speaker 2: We very much think that what is what is old

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Speaker 2: is new again and that's a that's a nice, I

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Speaker 2: guess summary of what music's all about, really, and especially

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Speaker 2: baroque music, because it is new again. We pick up

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Speaker 2: the score and we reinvent it and that's happening all

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Speaker 2: the time. That's one of the pleasures of doing this

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Speaker 2: kind of great music.

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Speaker 3: So what are typical days like leading up to when

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Speaker 3: you will be opening?

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Speaker 2: So this week's can be very busy. We're opening with

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Speaker 2: Israel and Egypt by handle On on Friday and Sunday,

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Speaker 2: first first of the new season, and we'll be rehearsing

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Speaker 2: phrenetically all week actually, which is great. This is really

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Speaker 2: diving into this fantastic monumental piece of Handle. The chorus

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Speaker 2: yesterday we met them for the for the first time

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Speaker 2: in this piece. They're sounding absolutely fabulous. So we meet

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Speaker 2: the orchestra today and we'll gradually put it together over

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Speaker 2: the week. So that's good, a lot of fun.

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Speaker 3: How long are the rehearsals.

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Speaker 2: Three hours generally per rehearsal, and then we do like

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Speaker 2: two all three of them sometimes a day, and you know,

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Speaker 2: I'm going around working, you know, we'll put it together.

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Speaker 2: We'll work the chorus separately and we'll look over things

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Speaker 2: this sort of little all the details about how to

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Speaker 2: you know, where we're putting the consonants and ideas about

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Speaker 2: about the about the music's related to the chorus. And

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Speaker 2: then today I'll take the orchestra a by itself and

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Speaker 2: just you know, we'll we'll get to know the music

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Speaker 2: and look at what concerns the orchestra, and then tomorrow

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Speaker 2: and the next days we'll start putting it all together,

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Speaker 2: and it just sort of grows bigger and bigger, and

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Speaker 2: we sort of zone out, you know, just thinking musically,

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Speaker 2: less about details and more about the big pictures. As

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Speaker 2: it grows and grows into the into the performance. I think, is.

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Speaker 3: There a little chaos in the process at all?

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Speaker 2: Well, little chaos never never hurts. It's good. I mean,

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Speaker 2: you know, it's good to be it's good to be

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Speaker 2: good to be creative, and I suppose creativity is where

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Speaker 2: chaos lives. But I try to be as planned as

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Speaker 2: I can, especially when you're organizing people's times, you know,

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Speaker 2: because you have to. It would be a little too

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Speaker 2: chaotic to to be saying, let's rehearse this and then

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Speaker 2: without the right number of people there, or things like that.

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Speaker 2: So I try to be as organized as I can be.

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Speaker 3: Do you have somebody that's the equivalent of a chief

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Speaker 3: of staff of the whole operation that assists you or

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Speaker 3: is it just you bring it everybody along?

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Speaker 2: No, I mean there's a huge amount of organization work

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Speaker 2: that goes into this. I mean, organizations very lucky to

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Speaker 2: have IRA working looking after all the musicians and organizing

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Speaker 2: that and you know, and musically, I'm they're running the rehearsals.

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Speaker 3: So yeah, I worked for somebody that as I was

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Speaker 3: managing radio stations and on air talent, who suggested to

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Speaker 3: me that managing talent is similar to conducting an orchestra

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Speaker 3: and having the players in the orchestra play the notes

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Speaker 3: that I'm asking them to play. I wanted to get

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Speaker 3: your take on that in terms of what's important to

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Speaker 3: be that leader, that director and understanding the temperament of

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Speaker 3: people and how you finesse that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean there is a I think that's a

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Speaker 2: great similarity being a conductor that's actually sort of being

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Speaker 2: a leader of I mean, you know, if you think

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Speaker 2: of that in terms of in a business or something,

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Speaker 2: it's something similar. It's the same sort of you want

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Speaker 2: to bring the best out of the people that are

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Speaker 2: in front of you, and you want to you want

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Speaker 2: to enable people to really have the chance to invest

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Speaker 2: their personality, their experience, their skills, and you want to

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Speaker 2: create an environment and condition where where people are happy

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Speaker 2: to give their best, you know, And I think that's

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Speaker 2: what is important for a conductor to to bring out

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Speaker 2: of musicians.

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Speaker 3: I think, you know, is there some psychology involved.

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Speaker 2: I'm sure there is with everything in life now, I mean, yeah,

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Speaker 2: a little bit. I like to. I like to, you know,

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Speaker 2: think a lot about people's people's temperaments and and and

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Speaker 2: how how we can, you know, get the music sounding,

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Speaker 2: because music has its demands as well. When we're a musician,

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Speaker 2: sometimes we're a bit like an actor, and we have

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Speaker 2: to be what the music needs us to be. Sometimes

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Speaker 2: we have to draw on all our temperamental possibilities, I think,

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Speaker 2: to be able to realize the music. So there's that

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Speaker 2: as well as there's who we really are and who

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Speaker 2: we are for the music, and you know, there's there's

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Speaker 2: many levels.

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Speaker 3: What does it mean to you when you think of

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Speaker 3: the historical perspective here of the society and it's it's history.

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Speaker 3: What does all that mean to you in terms of

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Speaker 3: how you're going to guide it moving forward.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a it's an immense it's I suppose it's humbling.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 2: This organization is is an illustrious organization over many, many years.

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Speaker 2: It's it's done a lot of great work, great music,

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Speaker 2: and I feel like I'm a part of the story now,

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Speaker 2: you know, it's it's maybe a little chapter in the

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Speaker 2: in the story of H N H. And I'm keen to,

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Speaker 2: you know, to respond to to what needs to happen today.

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Speaker 2: And I feel very very privileged and likely to be

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Speaker 2: able to be involved.

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Speaker 4: So when you go through a performance, is there a

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Speaker 4: post mortem after where you sort of look and say, hey, everybody,

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Speaker 4: we did this brilliantly.

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Speaker 3: We need to work on this point.

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Speaker 2: Well, there's we often have two performances during a week,

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Speaker 2: and there's a little tiny rehessal before the second one.

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Speaker 2: So sometimes after the first one, if there are items, yeah,

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Speaker 2: I mean I will go away after and sort of

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Speaker 2: get the score out again the next day and trying

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Speaker 2: and to think over, you know, how can I how

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Speaker 2: can I improve what was good? What could be better? Always,

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Speaker 2: you know, and the second performance is It's interesting, actually,

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Speaker 2: second performances are often very different to first performs. I

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Speaker 2: found that in a lot in the opera sometimes because

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Speaker 2: you know, people, as we were talking about psychology, people

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Speaker 2: often have achieved a rather great thing that on their

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Speaker 2: first performance, and you know, the energy is often different

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Speaker 2: on the second one. Maybe it's a little bit wiser,

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Speaker 2: you never know, but maybe less energy, but a bit wiser,

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Speaker 2: and so there are challenges to a second performance. That's interesting.

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Speaker 3: Now, who are some of the leaders in your career

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Speaker 3: that have shaped you and really influenced you.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I was lucky to work as a young assistant conductor

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Speaker 2: with William Christi for a long time four five years

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Speaker 2: actually in France with his organization Liza Florissan, and I

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Speaker 2: learned a great deal from Bill and it was a

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Speaker 2: very it was a very exciting time, you know. I

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Speaker 2: got to watch things close up, and I was lucky

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Speaker 2: to have a responsibility. Gave me a lot of responsibility

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Speaker 2: to go and rehearse this and go and sort things

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Speaker 2: out with these singers. And and it's often difficult, I

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Speaker 2: think as a conductor. I mean people train as conductors

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Speaker 2: you know now in music colleges and things, and it's

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Speaker 2: very difficult to get You have to have you have

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Speaker 2: to have pilot towers. You know, it's like, you know,

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Speaker 2: you have to actually learn to to to fly. The

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Speaker 2: real plane. Simulators are not they can be useful, but

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Speaker 2: being with people and having the chance to do that

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Speaker 2: is extraordinarily valuable for a musician. I was very lucky

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Speaker 2: with with Bill because he gave me, gave me a

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Speaker 2: lot of time with the orchestra of responsibilities to to undertake,

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Speaker 2: and it was, you know, a formative time for me.

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Speaker 3: Is that the biggest thing that he taught you that

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Speaker 3: that that freedom.

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Speaker 2: Money just being part of that musical community. It was

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Speaker 2: regularly doing wonderful music and big operas and staged operas

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Speaker 2: and things with singers and orchestras and chamber music and

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Speaker 2: all sorts of things. Just being part of it and

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Speaker 2: sitting in on rehearsals and then taking rehearsals and you know,

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Speaker 2: being part of the hustle and bustle. I got to

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Speaker 2: see what what does it take to make a schedule?

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Speaker 2: You know, what do directors, how do they need to

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Speaker 2: collaborate with conductors, What do singers need, what kind of

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Speaker 2: you know, ornamentations, all the preparations, and how do they

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Speaker 2: go about experiencing that and what's important to them, you know,

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Speaker 2: kind of emotionally as well? How does it feel? And

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Speaker 2: that's very it's very important that.

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Speaker 3: So is there an element of balancing the historical perspective

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Speaker 3: of the society with also bringing new audiences into the

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Speaker 3: joy of the work. I mean, is there a balancing

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Speaker 3: act with that.

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Speaker 2: Well, you know what we said about our sort of

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Speaker 2: new season of what's old is new again. I don't

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Speaker 2: think of it as doing an old music. I mean,

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Speaker 2: you know, it's like saying that somehow Shakespeare or or

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Speaker 2: you know, Charles Dickens or some kind of any book

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Speaker 2: not written right today somehow irrelevant to But as you know,

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Speaker 2: music and arts is a collection of human experience over time,

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Speaker 2: and I think there's a lot to there's a lot

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Speaker 2: to learn, especially with the music that we reinvented, you know,

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Speaker 2: so it is new, and I don't think we have

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Speaker 2: to apologize to audiences for for for that. I think

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Speaker 2: often people come because of that. That's what's my view.

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Speaker 2: And I think if there was a message, because you know,

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Speaker 2: I'm very keen on accessibility, I love that that we

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Speaker 2: work hard at H and H for that. And it's

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Speaker 2: important to to invite to say, this is music for

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Speaker 2: the world, you know, and we want you, we want

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Speaker 2: you to have the chance to come and hear it.

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Speaker 2: I think so, and you know, and it is extraordinarily

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Speaker 2: relevant in the way that any kind of art that

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Speaker 2: encapsulates the human condition over time has a lot to

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Speaker 2: a lot to teach us and to invigorate into and

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Speaker 2: to and you know, just to to kind of touch

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Speaker 2: the heart and give us some give us, give us

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Speaker 2: hope and joy.

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Speaker 3: You know, there is a part of the society that

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Speaker 3: does this great work with young folks from two to twelve,

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Speaker 3: for sure, right, I mean, it's it's really bringing them

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Speaker 3: sort of into the fold early. Talk about how joyful

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Speaker 3: that is for you.

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Speaker 2: That's amazing to see that. I think it's a vital

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Speaker 2: part of the age and h mission of the education.

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Speaker 2: Giving young people the chance to read music, to experience

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Speaker 2: music together. I think it can change the life. I mean,

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Speaker 2: you know, I think it's a wonderful thing to do.

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Speaker 2: And it's our future audience, is our future musicians too,

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Speaker 2: you know. So, But but it brings people all sorts

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Speaker 2: of great benefits for children. You know, my son himself

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Speaker 2: does a lot of singing, and I saw when he

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Speaker 2: started doing that transformation actually and his personality, his ability

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Speaker 2: to concentrate, his his kind of joy and energy. He'd

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Speaker 2: always looked forward so much to singing in the choirs.

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Speaker 2: And I think it's really great opportunity.

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Speaker 3: We produced this other podcast that's called Music Saved Me

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Speaker 3: and it's about the healing power of music. From musicians

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Speaker 3: standpoint and from some of their fans, do you think

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Speaker 3: music and the music that you are part of has

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Speaker 3: therapeutic healing power?

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, there's no doubt about that. Actually, it really does.

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Speaker 2: You know. It's it's an extension of our spirits, of

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Speaker 2: our souls somehow, and it's the way of it's a

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Speaker 2: way of sharing that together and and over time as well.

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Speaker 2: You know, it's like you can connect with people in

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Speaker 2: different places. You can cross boundaries, you know, across you

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Speaker 2: can cross time, spends, countries, experiences, and you can share humanity.

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Speaker 2: I think that's that's what music's all about. And you

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Speaker 2: see it. You see the power of it in the

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Speaker 2: concert halls. You see it. You see it to constantly.

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Speaker 2: Just turn around and I look see the audience and

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Speaker 2: I see someone in row whatever who's ha have a

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Speaker 2: giant grin on their face, a lovely smile, and eye

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Speaker 2: is sparkling, and they've they've really, they've really taken in

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Speaker 2: that piece of music. And it's it's made a difference.

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Speaker 2: You know. That's uh, that's lovely.

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Speaker 3: And does it feel different in a let's just say

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Speaker 3: a post pandemic world that people are even more joyful

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Speaker 3: to experience.

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Speaker 2: I certainly felt that, actually, yeah, especially when when things

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Speaker 2: came back again. There was a real sort of feeling

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Speaker 2: of absolute relief actually that we can get back to

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Speaker 2: kind of living a more normal type of life and share.

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Speaker 2: It's you know, I think it's It's like a plant,

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Speaker 2: isn't it If you stop giving it water, it sort

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Speaker 2: of shrivels up. And that's how I felt a little

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Speaker 2: bit when everything was isolated. I mean, of course it

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Speaker 2: was necessary, but it's nice to get back to things.

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Speaker 2: It felt like a reflourishing actually. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Well, lastly, I want to ask, are there any guilty

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Speaker 3: pleasures musically that someone might be surprised that you enjoy

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Speaker 3: knowing the disciplines of you work on a regular basis.

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Speaker 2: It's a very hard question to answer, because I've not

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Speaker 2: don't feel particularly guilty. I mean, you know, now, I'm

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Speaker 2: quite sort of open, and I love listening to all

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Speaker 2: sorts of different things. Not that I necessarily know very

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Speaker 2: much about the things, but you know, I'm not sure

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Speaker 2: you can enjoy music with that without knowing lots of

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Speaker 2: things about it. But I certainly with a with a

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Speaker 2: with my son now listening to all sorts of things

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Speaker 2: which I've got no idea who so you know, No,

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Speaker 2: I've tried to tried to try to remain open minded

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Speaker 2: and listen to listen to it as much as I can.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, is that guilty with curiosity?

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Speaker 2: Right?

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Speaker 3: Right? You don't close your ears to anything?

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Speaker 2: In general? I think, you know, I think in general,

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Speaker 2: if i'm maybe I do feel guilty about this. Things

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Speaker 2: that are extremely loud I tend to. But maybe that's

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Speaker 2: because I became attuned to working, you know, with instruments

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Speaker 2: aren't sort of magnified by electric amplifiers. So sometimes especially

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Speaker 2: if I go into a nightclub or a bar and

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Speaker 2: then live music, I sometimes really think that's fantastic. It's

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Speaker 2: so exciting, it's so loud, and I sort of you know,

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Speaker 2: so it takes a bit of getting used to it

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Speaker 2: for me. Maybe that's where I feel the most guilty.

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Speaker 3: Thank you for being and congratulations and it's an honor

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Speaker 3: to meet you.

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Speaker 2: Thank you too, Boss.

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Speaker 1: Thanks thanks for listening to this episode of Taking a Walk.

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Speaker 1: If you like this podcast, please share it with your friends.

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Speaker 1: You can find this podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

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Speaker 1: or wherever you get podcasts,