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Speaker 1: This is the meat Eater Podcast coming at you.

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Speaker 2: Shirtless, severely, bug bitten.

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Speaker 1: And in my case, underwear listening todcast.

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Speaker 3: You can't predict anything.

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Speaker 1: The meat Eater Podcast is brought to you by First Light.

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Speaker 1: Whether you're checking trail cams, hanging deer stands, or scouting

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Speaker 1: hunter in every environment. Check it out at first light

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Speaker 1: dot com. F I R S T L I t

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Speaker 1: E dot com. Hey, everybody, welcome to Our governor Tags.

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Speaker 1: Our Governor's tags on American reducts? Is that the right right?

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Speaker 1: You used to reducts? Remember they did apocalypse now and

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Speaker 1: they recut it and call it reducts.

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Speaker 3: I don't know to redo do over?

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Speaker 2: Well, where we are sells are are in the hot seat.

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Speaker 1: We did an episode Our Governor's Tags on American and

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Speaker 1: and you know the the the episode was phrased as

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Speaker 1: though it was a question. But I think there was

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Speaker 1: an overriding There was an overriding sentiment in the room

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Speaker 1: about you know, it's.

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Speaker 2: It's hyperbolic language.

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Speaker 1: Overriding sentiment in the room of I would say a

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Speaker 1: tipping a the Governor's tags. The sentiment in the room

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Speaker 1: is that governor's tags tipped on American We were called

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Speaker 1: out on this by Gray Thornton from the Wild Sheep Foundation,

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Speaker 1: which is the pre eminent wild cheap conservation organization in America,

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Speaker 1: and in all fairness, does more than any entity in

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Speaker 1: putting wild sheep back on the mountain, keeping wild sheep

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Speaker 1: on the mountain. So we had to hear him out,

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Speaker 1: and he's here today to tell us where we went wrong.

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Speaker 1: In his opinion, Gray, I want to keep the I

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Speaker 1: want to keep it. I want to keep all this fair. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: So I want to who gets to who gets to

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Speaker 1: say just to bring people up to speed? Who gets

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Speaker 1: to say who gets to describe what a governor's tag is.

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Speaker 3: I'm happy to give it a shot.

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Speaker 2: Give it a shot, and then if you do it

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Speaker 2: and I don't like it, I'll give you.

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Speaker 3: I'll give your thumbs down. You know, here's a good thing,

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Speaker 3: is Stephen? This is your show. Yeah, So I'm just

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Speaker 3: honored to be here. No, I don't. I don't know

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Speaker 3: if I called it out. We just wanted to point

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Speaker 3: out some things that we would have liked, at least

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Speaker 3: at least had stated.

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Speaker 1: So I get criticized about something or another every day,

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Speaker 1: okay and I both now most of them I kind

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Speaker 1: of like laugh them off. But your criticism of some

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Speaker 1: of the comments that were made on that episode struck

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Speaker 1: me so much that I emailed you within seconds of

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Speaker 1: reading them.

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Speaker 2: So like you know, when you.

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Speaker 1: Get you know, if you get called out in a

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Speaker 1: way where you're like, okay, all right, you know I

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Speaker 1: get a mean email every day from my friend Doug,

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Speaker 1: and you know you asked him, I'll usually reply by

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Speaker 1: I asked them, if you've seen any turkeys around? How's

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Speaker 1: the turkey's looking in other news? But no, no, I yeah,

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Speaker 1: tell everybody what a governor's tag is. So well, let's

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Speaker 1: talk about what it is before we talk about.

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Speaker 3: What it was. It mean.

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Speaker 2: Well, first of all, where did they come from?

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Speaker 3: And so the first governor's tag was actually given to

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Speaker 3: what was then the Foundation for North American Wild Sheep

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Speaker 3: now Wild Chief Foundation in nineteen eighty by Governor Ed

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Speaker 3: Herschler from Wyoming and a lot different than they are today.

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Speaker 3: But the idea from Ed's perspective was, hey, we have

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Speaker 3: these highly coveted tags opportunities. We've got this fairly new organization,

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Speaker 3: Foundation of North American Wild Chief was founded in nineteen

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Speaker 3: seventy seven. So three years later, what if we gave

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Speaker 3: one of these tags, they sold it at auction and

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Speaker 3: we just mandate that they dedicate all the funds to

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Speaker 3: Wild Chief Conservation in Wyoming. So that's how the whole

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Speaker 3: process started. And so back then, yeah, it's it was

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Speaker 3: a governor's tag and so.

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Speaker 1: Because the state wasn't able to the state didn't have

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Speaker 1: the mechanism to sell it themselves.

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Speaker 3: No, so they kind of look at a you know,

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Speaker 3: at an NGO as you know, we're the ones that

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Speaker 3: can put on the party, put on the show, and

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Speaker 3: there's there's a number of us out there that are

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Speaker 3: doing it. But it was kind of a changing point

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Speaker 3: for wild Chief conservation funding, bottom line finase or you know,

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Speaker 3: now wild Chief foundations in is in existence because sheep

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Speaker 3: weren't a priority. They didn't pay their way. Too few

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Speaker 3: and unlike elk, unlike meal deer, and like white tails,

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Speaker 3: unlike you know, even turkeys, not enough of them to

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Speaker 3: fund their conservation. So for many agencies, they really weren't

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Speaker 3: a priority.

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Speaker 1: You might explain them what that means by not enough

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Speaker 1: to fund the conservation.

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Speaker 2: You know, for example, let's let's look at Montana.

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Speaker 3: We'll look at twenty twenty three data, twenty twenty four

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Speaker 3: data six hundred and fifty eight, six hundred and fifty

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Speaker 3: six tags made available five hundred and fifty eight to

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Speaker 3: residents that brought in And this is this is twenty

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Speaker 3: twenty three data sixty nine, seven hundred and fifty bucks.

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Speaker 4: You're talking sheep, now, sheep.

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Speaker 3: Bighorn sheep tags. Ninety eight non resident tags brought in

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Speaker 3: a little over one hundred and twenty two thousand dollars.

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Speaker 3: So one hundred and ninety eight thousand dollars total for

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Speaker 3: bighorn cheap conservation from the sale of.

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Speaker 2: Tags, from the sale of six hundred tags.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, not a lot of money. You know. I started

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Speaker 3: really looking at this ten years prior, back in twenty fourteen,

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Speaker 3: and looked and thought, because I was, I was fortunate

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Speaker 3: up to take a big horn in our unlimited area

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Speaker 3: in twenty fourteen, I paid regulations. Oh crazy, you know,

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Speaker 3: I was. I was a non resident hunter. I paid

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Speaker 3: seven hundred and fifty bucks. Coincidentally, that year at our show,

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Speaker 3: the Montana tag sold for four hundred and eighty thousand

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Speaker 3: dollars twenty thirteen, so I was looking at the funding model, going,

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Speaker 3: this is kind of interesting. You know, how relevant are

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Speaker 3: these tags to Wild Chief conservation? How relevant is Wild

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Speaker 3: Chief Foundation to the Wild Chief economy because we're one

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Speaker 3: of the organizations that sells the most. So I did

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Speaker 3: kind of a deep dive and I had a couple

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Speaker 3: of our biologists look at WAFWA data, and you know,

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Speaker 3: I think at back in twenty fourteen, it hasn't changed

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Speaker 3: too much. I think it was about one hundred and

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Speaker 3: twenty thousand dollars came to the state on the non

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Speaker 3: auction or raffle tech. Well, hell you can't. You can't

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Speaker 3: buy a pickup truck and fund a biologist for that.

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Speaker 3: So how the hell are we going to fund wild

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Speaker 3: cheap conservation? And that's really what Ed Hirschler was looking

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Speaker 3: at back in nineteen eighty is that they don't pay

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Speaker 3: their way. They're just there's so few of them, and

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Speaker 3: the revenues so stream is so small. From the whether

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Speaker 3: they're l EH tags or not, that there's l EH

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Speaker 3: limited entry hunting. You know what most of us in

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Speaker 3: North America see is well, we got to apply for

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Speaker 3: a sheep tag. You know, we're blessed in Montana the

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Speaker 3: only Lower forty eight state that you can in effect

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Speaker 3: buying over the counter sheep tag. Pretty fricking cool. We've

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Speaker 3: got to protect that. Alaska obviously you can buy over

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Speaker 3: counter dolls tag, although now that's every third year for

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Speaker 3: a non resident. Canada's where you can you know, just

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Speaker 3: buy over the counter. For Canadian residents, you know, we

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Speaker 3: obviously have to have an outfitter. So it was a

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Speaker 3: unique funding model, and it's it's certainly grown, you know,

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Speaker 3: in Wild Chief Foundation. Quite frankly, it has been you know,

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Speaker 3: kind of the premier governor's tag, and now we like

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Speaker 3: to call them conservation permits because that's really what they are,

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Speaker 3: because they're not only governors. British Columbia has a minister's license.

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Speaker 3: Alberta has a minister's license. Tribal tags we sell. We

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Speaker 3: sell tags for the Taus Pueblo, for the Navajo Nation,

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Speaker 3: We've sold them for the Wala Pie, We've sold them

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Speaker 3: for the Kwani First Nation up in up in Northwest,

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Speaker 3: I'm sorry, in Yukon. So it's you know, we we

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Speaker 3: we glump them into a little i think more descriptive

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Speaker 3: definition called a conservation permit, which I think really identifies

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Speaker 3: what they are. And Stephen back in twenty fourteen, when

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Speaker 3: I ask our conservation guys to do this deep dive,

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Speaker 3: they used Western Association of Fishing wildliche Agency data WAFFWA

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Speaker 3: data and found that seventy three percent of all wild

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Speaker 3: sheep agency funding came from either a auction tag, conservation permit,

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Speaker 3: or a raffle tag, with the majority of the money

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Speaker 3: coming in from an auction tag. Fast forward ten years later,

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Speaker 3: we're still still quantifying the data. Right now, it's about

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Speaker 3: eighty three percent in the United States of sheep sheep

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Speaker 3: conservation funding at the agency level come from either an

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Speaker 3: off auction or raffle tech.

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Speaker 4: So is it like when one of these tags, conservation permit,

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Speaker 4: government tag, whatever you want to call them, get sold,

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Speaker 4: is it mandated that that money goes is too wild

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Speaker 4: cheap conservation?

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Speaker 3: Or is it diluted? It all roady? That's that's the

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Speaker 3: million dollar question. The easy answer is yes. Now it's

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Speaker 3: you know, the proofs in the pudding and in the implementation.

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Speaker 3: You know, one of the misnomers is you know, I

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Speaker 3: mean we just we just had our convention in Reno.

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Speaker 3: We sold thirty tags. We're going to direct about six

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Speaker 3: point eight million dollars to state, provincial, tribal, territorial, and

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Speaker 3: federal agencies to the sale of those thirty tags. By statute,

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Speaker 3: Wild Sheep Foundation has to direct those moneies to the agency.

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Speaker 3: What the agencies do for it a little deeper dive,

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Speaker 3: and I'd like to jump into that, but a misnomer is,

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Speaker 3: oh my god, weld Chief Foundation got all this money.

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Speaker 3: No Arizona one hundred percent of the proceeds from the

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Speaker 3: sale of any any special tag conservation permit that we

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Speaker 3: go back to the state Arizona Game and Fish Nevada

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Speaker 3: one goes back to Nevada Department of Wildlife. The average

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Speaker 3: that we would retain is about ten percent. If you

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Speaker 3: look at look at all the agencies. If you look

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Speaker 3: at just this last two weeks ago at our sheep show,

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Speaker 3: seven point three some odd million, we're going to keep

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Speaker 3: six hundred and some odd thousand. It's eight point nine

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Speaker 3: percent coming back to the Wild Chief Foundation from the

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Speaker 3: sale of those tags. Again, some of them are one

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Speaker 3: hundred percent of the agencies, most of them are around ten.

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Speaker 3: British Columbia is fifteen percent that we can retain. Alaska,

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Speaker 3: interesting enough, has a different kind of a rule. But

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Speaker 3: the moneys have to go back to an Alaska NGO.

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Speaker 3: So we we sell the conservation permit, one goes back

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Speaker 3: to our Alaska chapter. I think they keep fifteen percent

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Speaker 3: and then they direct the rest to State of Alaska.

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Speaker 3: So I can certainly show you where Wild Chief Foundation

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Speaker 3: directs our monies. I mean, this year we're budgeting about

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Speaker 3: two point seven two point eight in grant eight going

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Speaker 3: out of a three point seven million that will fund education, conservation,

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Speaker 3: you know, education, youth education, engaging women disease research. But

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Speaker 3: so much of what we do is grant neate out.

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Speaker 3: An agency or a chapter applies for a grant, we

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Speaker 3: give that money away. We keep six hundred and some

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Speaker 3: one thousand dollars from these permits we're giving away three

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Speaker 3: point seven. You know, it's not a it's not a

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Speaker 3: money maker for us, but it is a hell of

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Speaker 3: a money maker for the agencies. And that's that's what

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Speaker 3: we're trying to focus on. And you know, if there's

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Speaker 3: a better way to do it, we're all ears because

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Speaker 3: our focus is that ram you or lamb on the

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Speaker 3: ridge line, and how do we put money into the

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Speaker 3: agency to affect their conservation, their enhancement, their repatriation, the

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Speaker 3: restoration habitat and all that. Uh so did I did

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Speaker 3: I pass? Did we call it conservation permit?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm happy with the definition of conservation permit.

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Speaker 1: Uh one of the things. So this is something I said.

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Speaker 1: If you look at our thing, krinn was a quote,

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Speaker 1: they made an extra tag.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, you were, you were. I think you were trying

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Speaker 5: to figure out.

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Speaker 4: Like I think what you were saying is it wasn't

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Speaker 4: coming out of the same pool that people drop.

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Speaker 2: Whose side was I on when I said that.

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Speaker 3: There, I think it got you on the right side,

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Speaker 3: because that's absolutely correct.

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Speaker 5: Okay, you qualified that you were like undecided and split

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Speaker 5: down the middle.

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Speaker 2: What I said, this is one of the two things.

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Speaker 1: No, I remember, I said, this is one of the

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Speaker 1: few things in life I don't have an opinion about.

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Speaker 3: I'm too torn.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, we can.

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Speaker 5: We can bring in some of Cow's arguments later. I

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Speaker 5: think that's that's interesting.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So let's let's let's dive into one of the

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Speaker 1: let's let's dive into one of these these aspects of

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Speaker 1: governor's tags. It gets people riled up, right, Sorry, conservation permits.

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna call them governor's tags, okay, just because that's well, no,

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Speaker 1: I'll try to I say governor's tags. Other guys know

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Speaker 1: what I'm talking about. If I say conservation tag, They're

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Speaker 1: not going to know what I'm talking about.

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Speaker 4: The rebranding is it's kind of like the Golf of

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Speaker 4: Mexico and the Gulf of America.

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Speaker 2: But then it.

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Speaker 5: Doesn't mean that we should stick with.

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Speaker 3: Stick with governor's tags. But when we go to when

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Speaker 3: we go to b C or permit where we're talking tribal,

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Speaker 3: I'll call it a tribal permit.

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Speaker 2: Okay, you know there's an outfitter. Uh, there's a guide that.

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Speaker 1: So I'm talking about Golf of America.

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Speaker 4: I kind of felt like you wouldn't let that just go.

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Speaker 1: There's a there's a So sometimes when we spearfish down

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Speaker 1: in Louisiana, we stay in this place and next to

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Speaker 1: the place is the Golf of America charter.

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Speaker 4: You know, Oh, that's the name of their outfitter.

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Speaker 1: That was my first because this is years ago, that

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Speaker 1: was my first awareness. I just like chuckled about the

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Speaker 1: Golf of America.

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Speaker 3: He was ahead of the game.

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Speaker 1: He's way ahead of so it must have been brewing

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Speaker 1: a long time. I got like, I'm totally fine golf.

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Speaker 1: I'm totally fine golf of America.

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Speaker 2: The Nalely. I feel like that's pretty solidified in Alaskan culture.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Even the politicians in Alaska like what Yeah, I don't

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Speaker 1: know it was a problem with the name.

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Speaker 3: I do remember it being McKinley. Uh.

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Speaker 1: Okay, here's one. Here's a governor's tag argument folks make

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Speaker 1: when they're arguing about this. Oh you know what, you

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Speaker 1: know what made me they want to think about this?

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Speaker 1: In all fairness, we have to get into the fact

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Speaker 1: that there is a class there's there's a class issue here.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, but that question.

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Speaker 1: So the other night, uh, Saturday, two Saturdays ago. I

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Speaker 1: didn't watch it, but I watched on YouTube. David Chappelle

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Speaker 1: did the opening monologue on Saturday Night Live. And Chappelle

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Speaker 1: was talking about the LA fires, and he was talking

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Speaker 1: about reading commentary and news articles of people saying, uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, I'm glad those rich Californians there's houses are

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Speaker 1: getting burned down, and he said, Chappelle says, that's why

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Speaker 1: I hate poor people. They can't see beyond their own pain.

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Speaker 1: So there there is a there is a class issue

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Speaker 1: to this, Like anything to do with wealth access, any

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Speaker 1: kind of financial privilege, right, is going to generate animosity.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 1: You hear someone went to Yale, there's a judgment. Like

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Speaker 1: if that's not part of your family trajectory, there's a

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Speaker 1: judgment if someone has.

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Speaker 4: It doesn't matter in America, doesn't matter if you're talking

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Speaker 4: about sheep or like.

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Speaker 3: Real estate or whatever.

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Speaker 1: It's like there is like he paid blank million for

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Speaker 1: that house boom, right, Like there's a judgment, right, and so.

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Speaker 2: We need to get there, Like I'd like to get

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Speaker 2: there on the.

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Speaker 1: Issue of just like a perceived sense in America, like

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Speaker 1: I guess globally historically, a perceived sense that there's like

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Speaker 1: two playing fields and that the people of wealth have

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Speaker 1: access to things that that people don't have, and implied

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Speaker 1: and add to some sort of sense that most people

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Speaker 1: have wealth don't deserve it. So that's just burning, that's

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Speaker 1: simmering underground, and we'll remember to get to it. But

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Speaker 1: let's start with another. Let's start with a less philosophical point,

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Speaker 1: because this is just like a factual point. Give me

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Speaker 1: a how many tags did Montana issue for big horns?

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Speaker 3: One one for auction one for raffle.

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Speaker 2: No, no, I'm sorry, six hundred. In twenty twenty three,

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Speaker 2: it was six hundred and fifty six total. Okay, there

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Speaker 2: is a perception that right that it would.

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Speaker 1: Have been sorry, somebody the number again, six fifty six.

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Speaker 1: So through the public draw they issue six hundred and

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Speaker 1: fifty six big horn tags. There's a perception that the

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Speaker 1: number would have been six hundred and fifty seven.

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Speaker 2: Correct, So that one other.

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Speaker 3: We should use a state that doesn't have nearly as many,

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Speaker 3: because there's so many and it seems like a lot

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Speaker 3: of mine.

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Speaker 1: What's the state that doesn't have shit for big horn tags?

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Speaker 3: Nebraska? I don't want to go that extreme as a

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Speaker 3: big horn tag, all right, but yeah, no, I see

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Speaker 3: your point.

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Speaker 2: There's a perception there it should have been six fifty seven.

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Speaker 1: So some lucky guy, some some would be lucky guy

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Speaker 1: that would have gone down and did the draw got

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Speaker 1: screwed out of his big horn tag. Okay, But they

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Speaker 1: auctioned it off to the highest bidder. So we've seen

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Speaker 1: a diminishment of the public pool. Now I want you

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Speaker 1: to tackle whether that's true or not. But then that's

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Speaker 1: gonna bring up a broader question if if they create

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Speaker 1: an extra tag to facilitate a conservation tag auction, that

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Speaker 1: makes me feel like the number of tags they're issuing

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Speaker 1: becomes kind of arbitrary, Like, how do you create an

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Speaker 1: extra tag if the the number of tags that are

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Speaker 1: being distributed is like a biologically driven reality?

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Speaker 2: Meaning if it, how did it go from six fifty

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Speaker 2: six to six fifty seven?

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Speaker 3: So I got a, I think an answer that you're

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Speaker 3: going to appreciate, you know. Again, Well, I'll go back

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Speaker 3: to the unlimited area. You know, we've got three to

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Speaker 3: four to five kind of depending on the year, unlimited areas.

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Speaker 3: You know, our our guru in this state, the biologist

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Speaker 3: Sean Stewart. You listen to him talk about the the allocation,

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Speaker 3: the quota for those used to be three and some

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Speaker 3: now it's pretty much two. We all know there's some

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Speaker 3: years that they take three, four, five, sometimes six. You know,

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Speaker 3: so you might have a quota of two, but there's

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Speaker 3: six taken legally. Yeah, can you explain how that happens?

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Speaker 3: Just for that's it? Well, so there's a there's a

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Speaker 3: forty eight hour window when the season closes. You know,

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Speaker 3: in my particular case, I took a ram i was

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Speaker 3: the second ram taken in twenty fourteen in the unit

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Speaker 3: I was hunting. Tried to close the season by sending

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Speaker 3: an end reach in. They don't accept that, so, you know,

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Speaker 3: went through my wife and then called fish Wildife Parks.

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Speaker 3: They go, no, Gray's got to call you. Uh, I

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Speaker 3: don't know sell signal. I don't. I don't have a

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Speaker 3: cell signal. I don't have a SAT phone, so I'm

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Speaker 3: using in reach and and you know, long and short.

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Speaker 3: Sean finally went, oh, wait a minute, I know who

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Speaker 3: that guy is. And oh, by the way, he's with

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Speaker 3: Jack Atchison. If there's anyone that knows sheep, it's Jack,

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Speaker 3: and uh, yeah, we're going to close the season. But

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Speaker 3: in that case, there was another twenty four hour delay

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Speaker 3: and another sheep was taken, so three sheep were taken

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Speaker 3: legally in the unit on a QUOTEA of two. There's

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Speaker 3: been times where you know, five people shoot a sheep

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Speaker 3: in one day. You've got to you've got to You've

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Speaker 3: got forty eight hours to to report that to either

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Speaker 3: a conservation officer or a game board or a biologist.

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Speaker 3: So there's that lag period. You listen to Sean Stewart,

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Speaker 3: he's he'll tell you it's biologically insignificant, so that that third, fourth, fifth,

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Speaker 3: even six sheep is biologically insignificant in the overall scheme

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Speaker 3: of the unlimited units that he's responsible for. So we

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Speaker 3: take that Stephen go back to you know, the state

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Speaker 3: of Montana, and you're you were absolutely correct. It is

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Speaker 3: by typically by the legislature, an authorized additional tag to

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Speaker 3: what game and fish is going to say, hey, this

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Speaker 3: is this is what our off take is going to be.

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Speaker 3: The typical off take for bighorn sheep males that's considered

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Speaker 3: sustainable is from a from an allocation standpoint is two

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Speaker 3: to three percent of males. Sue conservative, Wow, so that's lower, right,

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Speaker 3: super conservative. So that's what the state's going to allodate or.

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Speaker 1: The orre low because I know this is this is

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Speaker 1: really hard to People are going to argue about these

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Speaker 1: numbers all the time. Sure, but I've heard with deer

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Speaker 1: management thirteen percent not just the males.

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Speaker 3: But the hurt right, and and you know, and now

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Speaker 3: think of recruitment. You know, to to increase a herd,

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Speaker 3: you need recruitment of twenty twenty two to twenty three percent,

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Speaker 3: whether it's big orn cheap, whether it's elk, whether it's

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Speaker 3: mule deer, whether it's white tail. Well, now we're harvesting

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Speaker 3: and if and if you look at the again WAFA data,

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Speaker 3: it's like one to three percent is the average male

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Speaker 3: off take. So so we're already managing to a super

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Speaker 3: conservative harvest. So Montana does. Then the legislature comes through

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Speaker 3: and said, hey, we're going to to raise money for

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Speaker 3: Montana fish wilife. Part. We're going to authorize one auction tag,

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Speaker 3: one ravel tag, and add two. So if we can

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Speaker 3: go back to Sean Stewart's presentation where he's saying, hey, look,

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Speaker 3: even in the three to four to five unlimited areas

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Speaker 3: with a with a quota of two per unit, if

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Speaker 3: they go over one year by two or three or four,

403
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Speaker 3: biologically insignificant, I'm not concerned about. So to your point,

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Speaker 3: we're already managing super conservatively on bighorn cheap that those

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Speaker 3: one to two. Wyoming's got five Nevada, you know, five

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Speaker 3: big worn cheap permits they authorize on auction.

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Speaker 6: Uh.

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Speaker 3: They then have you know, they have their commissioner tags,

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Speaker 3: but those aren't for big worn cheap. Those are ALC

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Speaker 3: mule deer, prong horn moose. I think there's a moose tag,

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Speaker 3: not not a commissioner. So you were absolutely correct that

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Speaker 3: these are additive. And what's what's amazing is when you

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Speaker 3: look at you know, and you we sold you word

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Speaker 3: one hundred and ninety two thousand dollars in Montana in

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Speaker 3: twenty twenty three. We sold the tag. We directed two

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Speaker 3: hundred and eighty eight thousand dollars on the auction tag

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Speaker 3: to fish, Wildlife and Parks. That adds to their one

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Speaker 3: ninety two. We did a raffle back then too. It

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Speaker 3: was one hundred and twenty five, so one hundred and

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Speaker 3: twenty five thousand for raffle. We double it, more than

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Speaker 3: double it for the auction tag and then add that

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Speaker 3: to the resident license. Still not a lot of money.

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Speaker 1: So hit me with the hit me with the amount.

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Speaker 1: Hit me with the amount that went in the tag

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Speaker 1: and license fees for the public draw versus.

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Speaker 3: Like the one hundred and ninety two thousand dollars two

427
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Speaker 3: hundred and fifty and twenty twenty three for six hundred

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Speaker 3: and fifty six tags and then the auction tag. Then

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Speaker 3: we add one more auction tag. We added another two

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Speaker 3: hundred and eighty eight added one raffle tag one hundred

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Speaker 3: and twenty five. So so I guess the you know,

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Speaker 3: but you're you're so right. I mean, so here's the

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Speaker 3: here's the thing that that I guess frustrates us on

434
00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:20,840
Speaker 3: this side. There's not a financial argument that you can

435
00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:22,920
Speaker 3: make to say that it's the wrong thing to do.

436
00:26:23,640 --> 00:26:28,000
Speaker 3: So it really is a social justice argument. And so

437
00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:32,320
Speaker 3: you know, I can show all the statistics that will

438
00:26:32,359 --> 00:26:36,439
Speaker 3: say that look uh, and you know it's additive, it's not.

439
00:26:36,800 --> 00:26:39,160
Speaker 2: It's not you know, I'm a regular guy.

440
00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:43,600
Speaker 3: Am I going to be able to buy one of

441
00:26:43,600 --> 00:26:46,800
Speaker 3: these tags? Not unless I rob a whole hell of

442
00:26:46,840 --> 00:26:50,520
Speaker 3: a lot of liquor stores or win the lottery. But

443
00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:54,640
Speaker 3: I'll tell you what I'm thrilled with, and that is

444
00:26:54,720 --> 00:26:59,159
Speaker 3: that somebody is willing to do that, and because of

445
00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:04,040
Speaker 3: that money, it's offering more opportunity for regular guys and

446
00:27:04,119 --> 00:27:09,439
Speaker 3: regular gals like me. So you know, that's that's the

447
00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:13,239
Speaker 3: crux of the argument. And then I you know, when

448
00:27:13,320 --> 00:27:15,720
Speaker 3: we dive into the social side of it, because there

449
00:27:15,760 --> 00:27:18,800
Speaker 3: is it's a and it's sad. I mean, if you know,

450
00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:24,560
Speaker 3: if I mean, I drive a twenty seventeen Toyta pickup truck.

451
00:27:25,240 --> 00:27:27,399
Speaker 3: You know what, it works, got one hundred and fifty

452
00:27:27,760 --> 00:27:31,920
Speaker 3: six thousand miles on it. I drive by somebody who's

453
00:27:31,920 --> 00:27:34,679
Speaker 3: got one of those new GMC at four's, Boy, that

454
00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:38,280
Speaker 3: looks slick. Do I have to have that? Am I?

455
00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:39,800
Speaker 3: You know? Am I envious?

456
00:27:39,920 --> 00:27:40,120
Speaker 6: Well?

457
00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:42,840
Speaker 3: I don't know. It's like, well maybe one of these days.

458
00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:47,800
Speaker 3: But my truck still pulls my trailer. I'm okay. So

459
00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:50,720
Speaker 3: I look at these guys or gals that are buying

460
00:27:50,760 --> 00:27:55,200
Speaker 3: these tags, and I'm I'm grateful because it's wildlife philanthropy.

461
00:27:56,320 --> 00:28:01,560
Speaker 2: Let me hate you with this though, Okay, one good? Okay,

462
00:28:01,800 --> 00:28:03,600
Speaker 2: where is ten good?

463
00:28:04,119 --> 00:28:08,720
Speaker 1: Like like, if it's if it's financial, if it's strictly financial,

464
00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:11,680
Speaker 1: how far would you extend that logic? Like if there's

465
00:28:11,680 --> 00:28:14,679
Speaker 1: six hundred tags, would you start to feel uncomfortable if

466
00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:16,679
Speaker 1: we auctioned five hundred of them?

467
00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:18,359
Speaker 3: You know what you're going to have is law of

468
00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:23,080
Speaker 3: diminishing returns. And we saw that in Alberta where they thought,

469
00:28:23,080 --> 00:28:25,200
Speaker 3: you know, Alberta was you know, that's where the.

470
00:28:25,119 --> 00:28:28,680
Speaker 2: Big sheep were and so like in a very specific

471
00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:29,359
Speaker 2: place too.

472
00:28:29,280 --> 00:28:31,840
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, well yeah it was and it was Cataman,

473
00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:34,359
Speaker 3: you know, it was around the Cataman Mine and uh

474
00:28:34,440 --> 00:28:38,160
Speaker 3: and so they're basically you know, park sheep coming out

475
00:28:38,520 --> 00:28:40,400
Speaker 3: if they come out, or they can just hang and

476
00:28:40,440 --> 00:28:42,640
Speaker 3: you could sit there and every guy there's you know,

477
00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:45,640
Speaker 3: there's a specific rock I think it's called Hot Rock

478
00:28:45,760 --> 00:28:48,880
Speaker 3: or something like that that these people would literally be

479
00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:51,440
Speaker 3: lined from the trailhead get to Hot Rock and then

480
00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:54,200
Speaker 3: just wait and see if these big rams would come

481
00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:57,320
Speaker 3: out of the park. And it's Jasper, that's the park,

482
00:28:57,800 --> 00:29:01,600
Speaker 3: and sometimes they would, sometimes they would, but they're big

483
00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:06,880
Speaker 3: sheep man. You know, the the prior hunted world record

484
00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:09,960
Speaker 3: was taken there and so that's where people were chasing

485
00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:13,880
Speaker 3: that tag, and that's where those dollars went. Well, Alberta

486
00:29:13,880 --> 00:29:16,800
Speaker 3: at one point thought hmm, you know, maybe we can

487
00:29:17,040 --> 00:29:19,440
Speaker 3: maybe we can make even more money. So they started

488
00:29:19,480 --> 00:29:25,240
Speaker 3: adding more and more auction tags and even even some

489
00:29:25,560 --> 00:29:29,200
Speaker 3: more L e H tags to that same area, and

490
00:29:29,240 --> 00:29:31,880
Speaker 3: then you had a hunting experience. It wasn't exactly the

491
00:29:32,520 --> 00:29:35,600
Speaker 3: most enjoyable. Everyone's making a bee line for Hot Rock

492
00:29:35,680 --> 00:29:37,760
Speaker 3: and then they're all sitting around the rock waiting, you know,

493
00:29:38,760 --> 00:29:40,240
Speaker 3: for a big sheep to come out of the park.

494
00:29:40,320 --> 00:29:43,600
Speaker 3: So I'm being a little facetious, but that's basically so

495
00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:46,640
Speaker 3: you can have a law of diminishing returns. Really interesting

496
00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:52,000
Speaker 3: this year, Arizona last year chose their commission. That's my

497
00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:52,480
Speaker 3: next question.

498
00:29:52,480 --> 00:29:53,880
Speaker 2: You're you're doing my next question.

499
00:29:53,960 --> 00:29:55,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, Arizona shows.

500
00:29:56,440 --> 00:30:00,480
Speaker 2: Did Arizona get rid of Governor's Day? They did, They

501
00:30:00,520 --> 00:30:02,280
Speaker 2: did take it away, They.

502
00:30:02,120 --> 00:30:04,920
Speaker 3: Got rid of Governor's tags and they're going to a raffle.

503
00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:10,320
Speaker 3: So while Chief Foundation was given the last Desert bighorn

504
00:30:10,400 --> 00:30:15,000
Speaker 3: sheep tag to sell an auction unless there's a commission change,

505
00:30:15,040 --> 00:30:17,920
Speaker 3: and you know, I mean it's politics at this point,

506
00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:22,960
Speaker 3: we were also given a pronghorn anallop tag. Last year

507
00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:25,640
Speaker 3: we sold the Arizona tag. I think it was for

508
00:30:25,680 --> 00:30:27,920
Speaker 3: four hundred and twenty four hundred and I think I

509
00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:30,680
Speaker 3: have that data. What did we sell that tag for? Yeah,

510
00:30:30,680 --> 00:30:33,200
Speaker 3: four thirty four hundred and thirty thousand dollars. One hundred

511
00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:36,320
Speaker 3: percent of those dollars go right back to Arizona. Game

512
00:30:36,360 --> 00:30:38,920
Speaker 3: to fish. This year we sold it for five five

513
00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:42,640
Speaker 3: hundred thousand dollars. Crazy, you want to really go nuts.

514
00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:47,960
Speaker 3: We sold the Arizona prong horn tag in twenty twenty

515
00:30:47,960 --> 00:30:51,960
Speaker 3: four for ninety five thousand dollars. A prong horn tag.

516
00:30:52,040 --> 00:30:54,120
Speaker 3: The last one going to be on auction sold for

517
00:30:54,200 --> 00:30:57,720
Speaker 3: two hundred and fifteen thousand dollars. One hundred percent of

518
00:30:57,720 --> 00:31:00,800
Speaker 3: those dollars go right back to Arizona Game Fish. Now

519
00:31:01,880 --> 00:31:03,959
Speaker 3: now it's going to go to raffles. We all know

520
00:31:04,680 --> 00:31:07,360
Speaker 3: that you're not going to make the same amount of money.

521
00:31:08,720 --> 00:31:15,920
Speaker 3: Organizations NGOs in Arizona boked and didn't even apply for

522
00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:19,080
Speaker 3: these tags, while Chief Foundation looked at it and said,

523
00:31:19,120 --> 00:31:21,000
Speaker 3: you know, I mean we could. We could thump our

524
00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:23,480
Speaker 3: chests and go, aren't we great? You know we're selling

525
00:31:23,480 --> 00:31:25,800
Speaker 3: these tags are unbelievable amount of money. You're not doing

526
00:31:25,800 --> 00:31:27,640
Speaker 3: what we want, so we're not going to play your game.

527
00:31:28,280 --> 00:31:30,800
Speaker 3: We didn't. We thought, no, let's have a seat at

528
00:31:30,840 --> 00:31:33,200
Speaker 3: the table. We'd rather be at the table and talking

529
00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:35,800
Speaker 3: and doing something good for wildlife. So we applied for

530
00:31:35,880 --> 00:31:38,240
Speaker 3: their bighorn tag and we're going to raffle that off.

531
00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:42,440
Speaker 3: I think it sold at Arizona Desert Big Worn Sheep Society,

532
00:31:42,920 --> 00:31:47,560
Speaker 3: who we partner with in Arizona on the Desert Big

533
00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:52,160
Speaker 3: Orn tag on the Arizona prong Horn tag. Arizona Desert

534
00:31:52,200 --> 00:31:55,000
Speaker 3: Big Worn Sheep Society sold the big Horn tag last

535
00:31:55,040 --> 00:31:58,080
Speaker 3: year at their their banquet in May, three hundred and fifty,

536
00:31:58,080 --> 00:32:03,200
Speaker 3: three hundred and sixty thousand dollars. We'll probably, through a raffle,

537
00:32:03,320 --> 00:32:06,160
Speaker 3: be able to direct one hundred and twenty five hundred

538
00:32:06,200 --> 00:32:09,760
Speaker 3: and fifty thousand to Arizona game fish versus the three

539
00:32:10,520 --> 00:32:13,560
Speaker 3: fifty or three sixty, and then you compare it to

540
00:32:13,600 --> 00:32:16,880
Speaker 3: the five hundred and then we get into the equity

541
00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:19,840
Speaker 3: of raffles. And that's that's a question I'd love to ask,

542
00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:24,000
Speaker 3: is you know, those that think that raffles are equitable

543
00:32:24,840 --> 00:32:28,800
Speaker 3: need to look a little deeper dive there. A Washington

544
00:32:28,960 --> 00:32:34,600
Speaker 3: resident can't purchase an online raffle outside of his or

545
00:32:34,640 --> 00:32:36,960
Speaker 3: her state because a gambling law gambling.

546
00:32:36,920 --> 00:32:40,080
Speaker 5: Even is this a similar thing that we went through

547
00:32:40,120 --> 00:32:43,000
Speaker 5: and we both purchase we weren't physically in the state

548
00:32:43,040 --> 00:32:43,600
Speaker 5: of Arizona.

549
00:32:43,600 --> 00:32:45,000
Speaker 2: I don't know if that was a gambling law or

550
00:32:45,040 --> 00:32:45,640
Speaker 2: just the rule.

551
00:32:46,160 --> 00:32:49,880
Speaker 3: No, it's so in Washington, it's it's there. It's their

552
00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:55,800
Speaker 3: state Gaming Commission because that is gambling. Yeah, and you know, now,

553
00:32:55,840 --> 00:32:57,880
Speaker 3: if you're in state, you can do an in state,

554
00:32:57,960 --> 00:33:01,560
Speaker 3: but if we're out of state, we can't. We can't sell.

555
00:33:01,720 --> 00:33:05,120
Speaker 3: We've Arizona got burned on this. Arizona has a super

556
00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:09,120
Speaker 3: teche and they've pretty much they used to sell them

557
00:33:09,120 --> 00:33:09,440
Speaker 3: to do it.

558
00:33:10,640 --> 00:33:13,200
Speaker 2: You know, they did exceptionally well on those.

559
00:33:13,680 --> 00:33:15,520
Speaker 3: They were selling them out of state. They got a

560
00:33:15,560 --> 00:33:19,200
Speaker 3: call from the Gaming Commission of Washington State saying, hey,

561
00:33:19,240 --> 00:33:21,280
Speaker 3: you're selling to Washington residence.

562
00:33:21,320 --> 00:33:22,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, we sure are.

563
00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:24,240
Speaker 3: You a great opportunity for them. We're raising money for

564
00:33:25,960 --> 00:33:30,200
Speaker 3: profit and they said, you're violating our state gaming laws.

565
00:33:30,760 --> 00:33:34,680
Speaker 3: You got to refund that money. Karine and I were

566
00:33:34,680 --> 00:33:38,160
Speaker 3: talking about the pandemic. Wild Chie Foundation got kind of

567
00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:40,800
Speaker 3: clever during the pandemic. We're all fighting to figure out

568
00:33:40,840 --> 00:33:44,200
Speaker 3: how the hell are we going to raise money. We

569
00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:50,640
Speaker 3: we actually sourced out of DOA a a virtual yes,

570
00:33:51,080 --> 00:33:55,680
Speaker 3: a virtual expo thing rather interesting. We had to change

571
00:33:55,720 --> 00:33:58,120
Speaker 3: all the avatars. There were no blonde people in in

572
00:33:58,240 --> 00:34:02,120
Speaker 3: this uh in this expo, but that's a whole and

573
00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:05,360
Speaker 3: no cowboy hats, a no ball cat so you know, Brodie,

574
00:34:05,440 --> 00:34:07,680
Speaker 3: they you know, we could not find a ball cap

575
00:34:07,760 --> 00:34:12,800
Speaker 3: in this uh this cutter application. But I digress a

576
00:34:12,840 --> 00:34:15,200
Speaker 3: little bit. But what what was really interesting is so

577
00:34:15,239 --> 00:34:18,680
Speaker 3: we said, okay, we're basically selling a ticket to sit

578
00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:21,800
Speaker 3: in front of your MacBook or your PC and watch

579
00:34:21,880 --> 00:34:25,040
Speaker 3: our show our auctions online. Those are easy to do.

580
00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:28,319
Speaker 3: Expo a little more difficult. And you know what. To

581
00:34:28,400 --> 00:34:31,840
Speaker 3: incentivize you to buy this ticket, We'll put you in

582
00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:35,200
Speaker 3: a drawing for a desert big one cheap hunt. Fair enough,

583
00:34:35,280 --> 00:34:36,560
Speaker 3: you know. All you have to do is buy the

584
00:34:36,560 --> 00:34:40,000
Speaker 3: ticket and you're you're in the drawing and somebody is

585
00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:43,360
Speaker 3: going to win a desert big one cheap hunt. I

586
00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:47,279
Speaker 3: get a call from Washington Gaming Commission and they said, hey,

587
00:34:47,280 --> 00:34:49,879
Speaker 3: you're you're conducting a raffle. And I went, We're not

588
00:34:49,960 --> 00:34:51,960
Speaker 3: conducting a row. What you know, what do you I

589
00:34:52,040 --> 00:34:53,880
Speaker 3: finally figured out what. I said, Oh wait a minute,

590
00:34:53,960 --> 00:34:56,399
Speaker 3: are are Yeah, No, you've got some registration thing. You're

591
00:34:56,400 --> 00:35:00,719
Speaker 3: giving away a desert big one cheaphunt. Yeah. Yeah. He said,

592
00:35:00,719 --> 00:35:05,279
Speaker 3: well you can't do that in Washington. You're based in Montana.

593
00:35:05,360 --> 00:35:07,799
Speaker 3: I said, wow, Actually, we're kind of clever. We run

594
00:35:07,880 --> 00:35:10,680
Speaker 3: our programs for a raffles out of Wyoming. But this

595
00:35:10,719 --> 00:35:13,000
Speaker 3: isn't a raffle, so this is just a registration thing.

596
00:35:13,360 --> 00:35:15,480
Speaker 3: He says, you're still breaking our gaming laws. You've been

597
00:35:15,560 --> 00:35:19,000
Speaker 3: there's been a complaint against you. Oh my god. Really,

598
00:35:19,040 --> 00:35:23,719
Speaker 3: we had. We had to refund twenty seven thousand dollars

599
00:35:23,760 --> 00:35:28,279
Speaker 3: in registrations we had to make to make to make

600
00:35:28,320 --> 00:35:31,520
Speaker 3: it at least fair to our Washington folks that wanted

601
00:35:31,560 --> 00:35:33,960
Speaker 3: to participate. We just said, hey, we're refunding your money

602
00:35:34,239 --> 00:35:37,080
Speaker 3: and if you want to attend our virtual convention you

603
00:35:37,080 --> 00:35:39,400
Speaker 3: can do so for free. Well that happened in it

604
00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:44,960
Speaker 3: the band fishing during the pandemic. Yeah, go figure. So

605
00:35:45,800 --> 00:35:50,719
Speaker 3: the laws are so crazy, you know, look at you know,

606
00:35:50,840 --> 00:35:56,520
Speaker 3: Montana is an interesting one. We accept on raffle checks cash,

607
00:35:56,880 --> 00:36:02,000
Speaker 3: debit cards, not credit cards. So if you're conducting a

608
00:36:02,120 --> 00:36:04,600
Speaker 3: raffle in Montana, you got to make sure that your

609
00:36:04,640 --> 00:36:08,200
Speaker 3: system knows that that that visa that somebody just sent

610
00:36:08,239 --> 00:36:11,520
Speaker 3: you was a debit card, not a credit card. And

611
00:36:11,600 --> 00:36:14,279
Speaker 3: we've been stung on that one. Arizona got stung their

612
00:36:14,280 --> 00:36:17,520
Speaker 3: super raffle got stung really really bad by Washington. So

613
00:36:17,680 --> 00:36:20,280
Speaker 3: now and Brody, I think you touched on it. Now

614
00:36:20,440 --> 00:36:25,600
Speaker 3: Arizona is only conducting their I forget what they're calling

615
00:36:25,600 --> 00:36:27,400
Speaker 3: it now, it's not the it's not the super tags

616
00:36:27,400 --> 00:36:30,800
Speaker 3: but in state. So now you have a and Steve,

617
00:36:30,840 --> 00:36:31,840
Speaker 3: you touched on that, you know.

618
00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:33,640
Speaker 2: Now you have me got boned out of one hundred

619
00:36:33,680 --> 00:36:34,120
Speaker 2: bucks apiece?

620
00:36:34,440 --> 00:36:43,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, so raffles are not as equitable as they may.

621
00:36:43,280 --> 00:36:45,080
Speaker 2: So let's back up to Arizona.

622
00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:49,680
Speaker 1: Uh, because really this decision that came out of Arizona

623
00:36:49,840 --> 00:36:51,000
Speaker 1: drove this whole conversation.

624
00:36:51,160 --> 00:36:51,399
Speaker 3: Yeah.

625
00:36:51,760 --> 00:36:54,520
Speaker 2: I mean we've definitely, over the years, have touched on it.

626
00:36:55,000 --> 00:36:57,680
Speaker 1: I have always been like, uh, I've always been torn

627
00:36:57,719 --> 00:37:01,880
Speaker 1: by the issue recognizing the money, but then also you know,

628
00:37:01,960 --> 00:37:04,680
Speaker 1: like I recognized the tremendous amount of money that goes

629
00:37:04,719 --> 00:37:07,719
Speaker 1: to conservation, and I also recognized the kind of populous

630
00:37:07,880 --> 00:37:10,800
Speaker 1: rage against like who the hell has four hundred thousand

631
00:37:10,840 --> 00:37:13,200
Speaker 1: dollars to buy a sheep tag? And why does he

632
00:37:13,280 --> 00:37:13,640
Speaker 1: get one?

633
00:37:13,680 --> 00:37:14,120
Speaker 3: But I don't.

634
00:37:14,920 --> 00:37:17,920
Speaker 2: I recognize both sides of this. But what really fueled

635
00:37:18,080 --> 00:37:24,880
Speaker 2: this renewed conversation was Arizona's decision, the commission decision, and

636
00:37:24,920 --> 00:37:26,719
Speaker 2: it came to a vote and they said that going

637
00:37:26,719 --> 00:37:30,080
Speaker 2: into the future, we're going to step away from doing

638
00:37:30,120 --> 00:37:35,920
Speaker 2: auction tags, Right, Like, what's your understanding of of that process,

639
00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:39,080
Speaker 2: Like what were the inputs they were looking at? Was

640
00:37:39,440 --> 00:37:40,960
Speaker 2: it primarily social pressure?

641
00:37:42,440 --> 00:37:47,840
Speaker 3: I would say it's social pressure is probably the biggest one.

642
00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:52,600
Speaker 3: The revenue side was certainly expressed. I was actually asked

643
00:37:52,680 --> 00:37:57,120
Speaker 3: to do a video for their commission by the chair.

644
00:37:58,040 --> 00:38:00,319
Speaker 3: We did. We did a six minute version, we did

645
00:38:00,400 --> 00:38:02,640
Speaker 3: cut it down to a three minute version. Talked about,

646
00:38:02,719 --> 00:38:07,279
Speaker 3: you know, how much money is raised for Arizona, you know,

647
00:38:07,320 --> 00:38:10,520
Speaker 3: what will happen to bighorn sheep. But you know, now

648
00:38:10,600 --> 00:38:13,440
Speaker 3: you look at that pronghorn two hundred and fifteen thousand dollars,

649
00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:15,880
Speaker 3: what will happen to pronghorn conservation? What's going to have

650
00:38:16,000 --> 00:38:18,239
Speaker 3: You know, is there anyone in this room that can

651
00:38:18,280 --> 00:38:21,080
Speaker 3: tell me that there's an agency that has too much money?

652
00:38:21,200 --> 00:38:24,520
Speaker 3: From a wildlife agency standpoint, you know, maybe maybe a

653
00:38:24,520 --> 00:38:27,799
Speaker 3: few government agencies we'd like to cut out, but you know,

654
00:38:27,840 --> 00:38:33,239
Speaker 3: from a wildlife agency in the United States, everyone's clamoring

655
00:38:33,280 --> 00:38:35,719
Speaker 3: for more dollars. You know, we need more biologists, we

656
00:38:35,760 --> 00:38:38,000
Speaker 3: need more trucks, we need more uniforms, we need more

657
00:38:38,040 --> 00:38:40,919
Speaker 3: habitat improvement, you know all of that. So it wasn't

658
00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:43,440
Speaker 3: a money thing, it was a it was a there

659
00:38:43,480 --> 00:38:46,880
Speaker 3: was some pressure from some groups that really do think

660
00:38:46,960 --> 00:38:51,680
Speaker 3: the raffle is the way to go because of Steven

661
00:38:51,760 --> 00:38:55,840
Speaker 3: exactly what you said. It's a it's a. It's an

662
00:38:55,960 --> 00:39:02,680
Speaker 3: envy thing. It is a polarize a thing, and we

663
00:39:02,800 --> 00:39:05,600
Speaker 3: see it in all walks of life, whether you know,

664
00:39:05,640 --> 00:39:08,960
Speaker 3: whether it's a guy that's you know, lauding and applauding,

665
00:39:09,520 --> 00:39:13,080
Speaker 3: somebody's home in Pacific Palisades being burned because you know,

666
00:39:13,120 --> 00:39:15,120
Speaker 3: he or she is pursued to be rich and I'm not.

667
00:39:17,239 --> 00:39:19,920
Speaker 3: You know, I I don't buy into that, but I

668
00:39:20,360 --> 00:39:24,399
Speaker 3: recognize it. You know, I recognize there's also and it's

669
00:39:24,400 --> 00:39:26,400
Speaker 3: been said, well, this is you know, this is a

670
00:39:26,719 --> 00:39:31,200
Speaker 3: this is against the North American wildlife conservation model. Shane

671
00:39:31,200 --> 00:39:33,520
Speaker 3: Mahoney and I are really really close friends, and we

672
00:39:33,560 --> 00:39:36,719
Speaker 3: share a stage around the world on giving speeches and

673
00:39:36,800 --> 00:39:40,880
Speaker 3: the like. I used to in my presentations called the

674
00:39:41,520 --> 00:39:44,720
Speaker 3: you know this this auction tag, governor's tag, special permit

675
00:39:45,640 --> 00:39:48,759
Speaker 3: conservation permit. I used to call it a bastardization of

676
00:39:48,800 --> 00:39:51,640
Speaker 3: the North American egalitarian model. He said, ah, you know

677
00:39:51,719 --> 00:39:54,560
Speaker 3: this is, but it raises all this money I had.

678
00:39:54,719 --> 00:39:56,160
Speaker 3: She used to say that. I used to say it,

679
00:39:56,200 --> 00:39:57,920
Speaker 3: and I said, oh, it's a bastardization of.

680
00:39:57,880 --> 00:39:58,960
Speaker 2: The model, but it works.

681
00:39:59,080 --> 00:40:02,080
Speaker 3: How long ago is that Shane and I were in

682
00:40:02,080 --> 00:40:05,840
Speaker 3: my drift boat on the Yellowstone eight years ago. He

683
00:40:05,880 --> 00:40:08,560
Speaker 3: and his wife. He's, you know, say hey, let me

684
00:40:08,560 --> 00:40:10,759
Speaker 3: float you down the Yellowstone. You're such a busy guy.

685
00:40:11,120 --> 00:40:12,960
Speaker 3: Watch a fly fish a little bit, and you know,

686
00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:15,520
Speaker 3: typical typical Shane. He just kind of puts the rod down.

687
00:40:15,600 --> 00:40:17,840
Speaker 3: He's looking around and then in that voice of Moses,

688
00:40:18,520 --> 00:40:23,040
Speaker 3: you know, great, I want to tell you something. You're wrong.

689
00:40:24,120 --> 00:40:28,520
Speaker 3: I went all right wrong a lot every single day.

690
00:40:28,520 --> 00:40:30,440
Speaker 3: What am I wrong? At this time? He goes, you know,

691
00:40:30,560 --> 00:40:36,560
Speaker 3: I've heard you on stage call this Governor's Tag Conservation

692
00:40:36,640 --> 00:40:40,160
Speaker 3: Permit model a bastardization of the North American model, and

693
00:40:40,200 --> 00:40:45,040
Speaker 3: you're wrong. I said, Well, you, being the foremost spokesperson

694
00:40:45,160 --> 00:40:48,400
Speaker 3: for the model, tell me why. And he says, you know,

695
00:40:48,480 --> 00:40:53,160
Speaker 3: one of the pillars of the model is state and

696
00:40:53,440 --> 00:40:59,080
Speaker 3: agency determination of how is the most efficient way for

697
00:40:59,200 --> 00:41:04,000
Speaker 3: them to raise money for wildlife. If a state determines

698
00:41:04,160 --> 00:41:07,080
Speaker 3: that a auction tag or a raffle tag, or come

699
00:41:07,160 --> 00:41:11,000
Speaker 3: up withever, whatever program it is, is the most efficient

700
00:41:11,160 --> 00:41:15,160
Speaker 3: efficient mechanism, well then that's consistent with a model. We

701
00:41:15,280 --> 00:41:19,600
Speaker 3: just did a permit discussion at our sheep show in

702
00:41:19,640 --> 00:41:25,520
Speaker 3: our full curl Cinema had Shane my EVP of Conservation

703
00:41:25,600 --> 00:41:28,799
Speaker 3: Corey Mason, myself doing a Q and A afterwards, and

704
00:41:28,840 --> 00:41:32,080
Speaker 3: Shane said it again. He goes, you know, this is

705
00:41:32,200 --> 00:41:38,240
Speaker 3: consistent with the model. The challenge is the social license

706
00:41:39,040 --> 00:41:42,160
Speaker 3: and Steve, it's what you said, and you cannot discount that.

707
00:41:44,080 --> 00:41:46,400
Speaker 3: You know. I could certainly talk about a way to

708
00:41:46,520 --> 00:41:50,399
Speaker 3: look at it that maybe will sway some views on it,

709
00:41:50,440 --> 00:41:54,520
Speaker 3: but there is just a built in, you know, even

710
00:41:54,560 --> 00:41:58,640
Speaker 3: though it's additive, even though it's driving eighty three percent

711
00:41:58,680 --> 00:42:03,719
Speaker 3: of the conservation dot for wild sheep at the agency

712
00:42:03,800 --> 00:42:07,399
Speaker 3: level in our country, there's still this Well, so what

713
00:42:07,920 --> 00:42:10,839
Speaker 3: I don't care about the money. It's just not fair.

714
00:42:11,560 --> 00:42:17,000
Speaker 3: Somebody is able to buy something that I can't. Well,

715
00:42:19,680 --> 00:42:23,040
Speaker 3: and I guess I look at that, and I mentioned

716
00:42:23,080 --> 00:42:28,560
Speaker 3: the term wildlife philanthropy. You know, you look at a

717
00:42:28,640 --> 00:42:32,680
Speaker 3: high net worth individual and we applaud when there's a

718
00:42:32,800 --> 00:42:36,320
Speaker 3: name on a hospital wing because they donated a potload

719
00:42:36,360 --> 00:42:39,840
Speaker 3: of money to that hospital, or they donated to feeding

720
00:42:39,840 --> 00:42:46,239
Speaker 3: the hungry, or to the welfare of pets, or a

721
00:42:46,280 --> 00:42:53,160
Speaker 3: football stadium or an art museum, and we applaud that philanthropy. Philanthropy, Well, this,

722
00:42:53,280 --> 00:42:59,360
Speaker 3: in my opinion, is wildlife philanthropy. Why don't we applaud.

723
00:42:58,760 --> 00:43:01,560
Speaker 1: That because they're getting, because they would get they would

724
00:43:01,600 --> 00:43:06,680
Speaker 1: get universally applauded if they weren't taking the tag. If

725
00:43:06,680 --> 00:43:08,920
Speaker 1: some guy got up at Sheep at your at your

726
00:43:09,000 --> 00:43:11,799
Speaker 1: convention in Reno, and some guys said, hey, man, no

727
00:43:11,880 --> 00:43:14,600
Speaker 1: strings attached, I don't want ship for it. Here's five

728
00:43:14,680 --> 00:43:19,399
Speaker 1: hundred thousand dollars from Wild Sheep in Arizona one, that'd

729
00:43:19,400 --> 00:43:21,239
Speaker 1: be the that'd be the response. I mean, like, if

730
00:43:21,280 --> 00:43:23,719
Speaker 1: you're actually asking the question, that would be why. And

731
00:43:23,920 --> 00:43:25,319
Speaker 1: it again, it's like.

732
00:43:26,880 --> 00:43:29,920
Speaker 3: Building people, doesn't, doesn't, isn't isn't an accolade too?

733
00:43:30,160 --> 00:43:31,719
Speaker 2: And I get it it is.

734
00:43:32,120 --> 00:43:33,960
Speaker 1: It's a mark, But I don't think like if if

735
00:43:34,200 --> 00:43:39,920
Speaker 1: Verizon underwrites a sports stadium as a marketing play, I

736
00:43:39,960 --> 00:43:42,120
Speaker 1: don't think that Verizon.

737
00:43:41,680 --> 00:43:45,160
Speaker 3: Is applauded, No, the recognized.

738
00:43:45,400 --> 00:43:47,839
Speaker 1: It's like it's like sort of there's a there's a

739
00:43:47,960 --> 00:43:51,520
Speaker 1: quid pro quo to it. It's like, yes, they're underwriting

740
00:43:51,560 --> 00:43:54,799
Speaker 1: the sports stadium, but it's like a marketing expense. So

741
00:43:56,680 --> 00:43:59,080
Speaker 1: if you could somehow get into a guy's head who's

742
00:43:59,440 --> 00:44:02,399
Speaker 1: buying a shep tag for four hundred thousand dollars and

743
00:44:02,600 --> 00:44:06,640
Speaker 1: he was gonna go write the check anyway, because he

744
00:44:06,680 --> 00:44:10,560
Speaker 1: believes that much in wild sheep. But then like as

745
00:44:10,560 --> 00:44:14,960
Speaker 1: a little added perk, got a tag too. I think

746
00:44:15,040 --> 00:44:18,879
Speaker 1: that that would that would diminish some of the social condemnation.

747
00:44:19,120 --> 00:44:21,600
Speaker 1: But I don't think people are looking at it. If

748
00:44:21,640 --> 00:44:24,000
Speaker 1: talking about people who feel burned by governor's tags, I

749
00:44:24,000 --> 00:44:26,400
Speaker 1: don't think they're looking at it that it was a donation.

750
00:44:27,120 --> 00:44:30,160
Speaker 1: I think they're looking at it that it was a purchase.

751
00:44:30,440 --> 00:44:32,440
Speaker 5: I think you're looking at the psychology of it.

752
00:44:32,600 --> 00:44:33,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, and they are.

753
00:44:33,800 --> 00:44:36,839
Speaker 3: They're certainly getting a benefit back even if they don't

754
00:44:36,840 --> 00:44:40,000
Speaker 3: take the sheep, And that certainly happened. I mean, I

755
00:44:40,960 --> 00:44:43,680
Speaker 3: you know a good friend of mine from Texas, you know,

756
00:44:43,800 --> 00:44:47,200
Speaker 3: back in the day in Alberta. I think he I

757
00:44:47,239 --> 00:44:52,160
Speaker 3: think he bought the tag. He bought it two or

758
00:44:52,200 --> 00:44:56,880
Speaker 3: three times and didn't take a sheep once. There was

759
00:44:56,920 --> 00:45:00,759
Speaker 3: another guy that was always chasing I mean since pass

760
00:45:01,320 --> 00:45:05,480
Speaker 3: and I think he he bought it at least three times,

761
00:45:05,600 --> 00:45:10,600
Speaker 3: didn't take a sheep twice. So I see your point,

762
00:45:10,640 --> 00:45:13,520
Speaker 3: and it's and it really had Yeah, it's to say,

763
00:45:13,840 --> 00:45:17,319
Speaker 3: you know, well, you know what you're getting an opportunity. Well,

764
00:45:17,360 --> 00:45:23,279
Speaker 3: you're getting an opportunity with no with no guarantee. And

765
00:45:23,320 --> 00:45:25,400
Speaker 3: I look back, you know, I look back on the

766
00:45:25,440 --> 00:45:28,920
Speaker 3: guy that that ended up buying that that record Montana

767
00:45:28,960 --> 00:45:31,400
Speaker 3: tag in twenty thirteen, because I, you know, I I

768
00:45:31,560 --> 00:45:36,959
Speaker 3: felt that my seven hundred and fifty dollars tag back

769
00:45:37,000 --> 00:45:39,759
Speaker 3: when Montana Fish, Wildlife and Parks had one hundred and

770
00:45:39,800 --> 00:45:43,239
Speaker 3: twenty dollars in revenue coming in from me, you know

771
00:45:43,400 --> 00:45:48,759
Speaker 3: and others us regular folks, and they got ninety four

772
00:45:48,840 --> 00:45:53,360
Speaker 3: hundred and eighty thousand dollars. That my ability to hunt

773
00:45:53,760 --> 00:45:56,840
Speaker 3: sheep in Montana was because some crazy guy was willing

774
00:45:56,880 --> 00:45:59,360
Speaker 3: to spend that money. And he made an interesting comment

775
00:45:59,400 --> 00:46:02,040
Speaker 3: to me. I you know, I thanked him, and he says, Gray,

776
00:46:02,520 --> 00:46:06,680
Speaker 3: here's the deal. I give to my church, I give

777
00:46:06,760 --> 00:46:10,080
Speaker 3: to he he had another, He had another, you know,

778
00:46:10,200 --> 00:46:12,279
Speaker 3: kind of pet charity he gives to and he goes

779
00:46:13,280 --> 00:46:17,799
Speaker 3: and I give to wild cheap Conservation. Yes. Now does

780
00:46:17,840 --> 00:46:21,040
Speaker 3: he get a spiritual benefit from giving to his church?

781
00:46:21,280 --> 00:46:25,759
Speaker 3: You bet? Does he? You know, it's a little bit

782
00:46:25,760 --> 00:46:28,239
Speaker 3: more than my twenty bucks in the in the tray.

783
00:46:29,760 --> 00:46:36,400
Speaker 3: Does he get a benefit satisfaction out of giving to you?

784
00:46:36,440 --> 00:46:39,280
Speaker 3: Know in this case they were homeless shelters or something

785
00:46:39,320 --> 00:46:42,920
Speaker 3: like that. Sure does he get a benefit from buying

786
00:46:42,960 --> 00:46:47,080
Speaker 3: that cheap tag, Yes he does, But I know I

787
00:46:47,160 --> 00:46:51,279
Speaker 3: did too as the regular guy. I benefited because he

788
00:46:51,400 --> 00:46:58,360
Speaker 3: chose to direct his philanthropy towards conservation, not a football stadium.

789
00:46:58,400 --> 00:47:00,400
Speaker 3: So that's a good point those.

790
00:47:00,320 --> 00:47:05,359
Speaker 2: Dude, let's change let's change course a little bit.

791
00:47:10,239 --> 00:47:13,600
Speaker 1: In conversations with people who who are suspicious of critical

792
00:47:13,680 --> 00:47:18,640
Speaker 1: of auction tags, a common thing people point out is,

793
00:47:18,920 --> 00:47:22,080
Speaker 1: and I've pointed it out myself, is that in some

794
00:47:22,160 --> 00:47:27,560
Speaker 1: cases you get a season that's way longer, you bet,

795
00:47:28,200 --> 00:47:31,879
Speaker 1: like potentially three hundred and sixty five days long. Yeah,

796
00:47:32,600 --> 00:47:35,520
Speaker 1: you sit outside of the unit thing. So Joe Blow

797
00:47:35,640 --> 00:47:38,200
Speaker 1: draws a tag and he might have he might have

798
00:47:38,239 --> 00:47:41,560
Speaker 1: an area ten by twenty miles whatever the hell smaller.

799
00:47:42,080 --> 00:47:43,080
Speaker 2: That's his hunt unit.

800
00:47:45,280 --> 00:47:48,479
Speaker 1: The auction tag holder can hunt any unit that's open

801
00:47:48,560 --> 00:47:51,680
Speaker 1: in the whole damn state, right right, And so people

802
00:47:51,719 --> 00:47:54,960
Speaker 1: look and they'll be like, well, why is that why

803
00:47:55,000 --> 00:47:59,839
Speaker 1: this amazing perk to wealth? Like even once we have

804
00:48:00,080 --> 00:48:04,520
Speaker 1: the tags, are like I won mine on the open

805
00:48:05,280 --> 00:48:06,040
Speaker 1: tag allotment.

806
00:48:07,000 --> 00:48:09,400
Speaker 3: He bought his, but his better mind.

807
00:48:09,320 --> 00:48:11,839
Speaker 4: And something to build on what Steve is saying, like,

808
00:48:11,920 --> 00:48:16,440
Speaker 4: I once listen to a conversation at a Rocky Mountain

809
00:48:16,480 --> 00:48:21,400
Speaker 4: Elk Foundation thing in Colorado where someone had drawn a

810
00:48:21,400 --> 00:48:23,440
Speaker 4: big horn ram tag and a unit where there was

811
00:48:23,480 --> 00:48:26,480
Speaker 4: only one tag, and he spent a bunch of time

812
00:48:26,560 --> 00:48:28,440
Speaker 4: scouting and there was a real big.

813
00:48:28,200 --> 00:48:29,760
Speaker 3: One and I was gonna tell the story.

814
00:48:29,920 --> 00:48:36,160
Speaker 4: Yeah, he on his on his way in scouting one day,

815
00:48:37,640 --> 00:48:39,680
Speaker 4: kind of a posse of dudes are coming down the

816
00:48:39,719 --> 00:48:42,799
Speaker 4: trail and he's like, hey, you know. They strike up

817
00:48:42,800 --> 00:48:45,320
Speaker 4: a conversation. He's like, I got I drew the tag.

818
00:48:45,360 --> 00:48:48,319
Speaker 4: I'm looking for this ram and they were basically like,

819
00:48:48,880 --> 00:48:56,040
Speaker 4: don't bother. Like we're we're guiding the Governor's tag guy

820
00:48:57,320 --> 00:49:01,640
Speaker 4: and they know when the season opened, and they're like,

821
00:49:02,280 --> 00:49:04,200
Speaker 4: we're going to get that thing before you ever have

822
00:49:04,239 --> 00:49:07,520
Speaker 4: a chance to get it. It wasn't like an impolite conversation,

823
00:49:07,640 --> 00:49:09,520
Speaker 4: but it Yeah.

824
00:49:09,280 --> 00:49:10,919
Speaker 2: Because he had his team of he had his team

825
00:49:10,960 --> 00:49:11,400
Speaker 2: of guys.

826
00:49:11,480 --> 00:49:14,120
Speaker 4: Yeah, so there's like a social conflict.

827
00:49:13,840 --> 00:49:18,239
Speaker 3: There, you bet, you bet, and and and that, that,

828
00:49:18,400 --> 00:49:22,960
Speaker 3: in my opinion, is the dirty underbelly m hm. And

829
00:49:22,960 --> 00:49:27,040
Speaker 3: and is something that if we are to retain the

830
00:49:27,160 --> 00:49:31,960
Speaker 3: social license to have these. We need to be able

831
00:49:32,000 --> 00:49:38,759
Speaker 3: to answer those, And I would say, right now, we don't. Well,

832
00:49:39,000 --> 00:49:41,960
Speaker 3: why can't you answer it this way? Because well, let me.

833
00:49:41,920 --> 00:49:45,040
Speaker 1: Provide you with a hypothetical answer. Not hypothetical, but I mean,

834
00:49:45,080 --> 00:49:50,719
Speaker 1: wouldn't it be if we as hunters are agreeing that

835
00:49:52,280 --> 00:49:58,160
Speaker 1: auctioning off a tag for several hundred thousand dollars creates

836
00:49:58,840 --> 00:50:03,640
Speaker 1: more sheep opportunities for everybody, potential leads to bigger, big

837
00:50:03,680 --> 00:50:07,560
Speaker 1: horn populations, so that there's more tags available in the

838
00:50:07,600 --> 00:50:10,320
Speaker 1: general draw. We got healthier sheep herds, we got healthier

839
00:50:10,320 --> 00:50:15,719
Speaker 1: sheep hunting. If we can make that tag even more

840
00:50:15,840 --> 00:50:20,279
Speaker 1: valuable and it's still only costing us one sheep, why

841
00:50:20,320 --> 00:50:24,680
Speaker 1: not do everything we can do to make it more valuable. Well,

842
00:50:24,680 --> 00:50:26,839
Speaker 1: like if you said, if you action to tag off

843
00:50:26,880 --> 00:50:29,160
Speaker 1: and you go, you got seven days, right, all of

844
00:50:29,200 --> 00:50:33,600
Speaker 1: a sudden, the price is probably gonna plumb it without question,

845
00:50:33,920 --> 00:50:36,120
Speaker 1: and so so I mean, but I feel like I'm

846
00:50:36,120 --> 00:50:38,680
Speaker 1: not saying that that's ultimately the answer, but that's kind

847
00:50:38,680 --> 00:50:39,440
Speaker 1: of how I look at it.

848
00:50:39,480 --> 00:50:39,839
Speaker 3: Would be.

849
00:50:40,480 --> 00:50:42,359
Speaker 1: Well, if we're gonna do it, we're gonna give away

850
00:50:42,360 --> 00:50:45,680
Speaker 1: a sheep tag. I don't get the most money you

851
00:50:45,680 --> 00:50:47,640
Speaker 1: can out of the sum bitch, and if you need

852
00:50:47,680 --> 00:50:48,839
Speaker 1: to make the season.

853
00:50:48,520 --> 00:50:51,440
Speaker 2: Longer and that Jack's it up by one hundred thousand dollars.

854
00:50:52,160 --> 00:50:56,160
Speaker 3: Okay, well, and you nailed it. And if you know,

855
00:50:56,400 --> 00:50:59,160
Speaker 3: going back to the prior podcast and the and the

856
00:50:59,200 --> 00:51:04,200
Speaker 3: title you know are Governor's tags on American? Well, no,

857
00:51:04,280 --> 00:51:09,520
Speaker 3: it's a good title. No, you know, these conservation permits

858
00:51:09,520 --> 00:51:14,719
Speaker 3: and these governors tags are absolutely American because it's based

859
00:51:14,760 --> 00:51:16,680
Speaker 3: on subli and de man and a and a and

860
00:51:16,760 --> 00:51:25,000
Speaker 3: an interest in capitalistic process. Now you know that that

861
00:51:25,120 --> 00:51:27,839
Speaker 3: was my argument as well. It's against the egalitarian North

862
00:51:27,880 --> 00:51:33,160
Speaker 3: American model. Shane. Shane corrected me. But Stephen, you're absolutely right.

863
00:51:33,239 --> 00:51:38,719
Speaker 3: But the the the dirty underbelly is perception. And and

864
00:51:38,840 --> 00:51:41,960
Speaker 3: if you know Arizona is a three hundred and sixty

865
00:51:41,960 --> 00:51:50,880
Speaker 3: five day, you know, being intellectually honest, you know, we

866
00:51:50,880 --> 00:51:54,640
Speaker 3: we like to give breeding populations time off. You know,

867
00:51:54,960 --> 00:51:58,879
Speaker 3: Now Montana hunts during the rut for mule deer, we off,

868
00:51:59,000 --> 00:52:01,120
Speaker 3: you know, we archery hunt in the rut for elk

869
00:52:01,200 --> 00:52:07,080
Speaker 3: and others typically bighorn sheep or not in the rut.

870
00:52:07,160 --> 00:52:10,319
Speaker 3: There's some that seasons that they're there. There could be

871
00:52:10,600 --> 00:52:15,520
Speaker 3: certainly these these conservation permits that either are extended season

872
00:52:16,040 --> 00:52:20,600
Speaker 3: earlier season or any unit opens it up to going

873
00:52:20,719 --> 00:52:24,880
Speaker 3: right back to that social question, social license question on

874
00:52:25,600 --> 00:52:28,319
Speaker 3: well how come it's that much different? Well how why

875
00:52:28,400 --> 00:52:31,799
Speaker 3: is it that much different? Because that's what that's what

876
00:52:31,920 --> 00:52:39,080
Speaker 3: increases the price. Classic example is is Alberta. You know,

877
00:52:39,160 --> 00:52:41,919
Speaker 3: they they made which you know, some could say were

878
00:52:41,960 --> 00:52:45,520
Speaker 3: some mistakes, you know, back in the nineties, and they

879
00:52:45,520 --> 00:52:49,239
Speaker 3: were just offering too many tags. Price started to go down,

880
00:52:49,280 --> 00:52:50,880
Speaker 3: and they're going, jeez, you know, we used to be

881
00:52:50,960 --> 00:52:55,200
Speaker 3: the big dog. Now Montana is uh now New Mexico is,

882
00:52:56,560 --> 00:52:59,360
Speaker 3: Arizona was, I mean, it's you know, it's Colorado was

883
00:52:59,440 --> 00:53:01,359
Speaker 3: last year. I mean it's it's kind of amazing when

884
00:53:01,400 --> 00:53:03,239
Speaker 3: you when you look at you know, where the big

885
00:53:03,280 --> 00:53:06,400
Speaker 3: dollars are coming in on these on these conservation permits.

886
00:53:06,920 --> 00:53:12,840
Speaker 4: But stop you does the dollar does the amount change

887
00:53:13,239 --> 00:53:16,080
Speaker 4: based on where the big ram is that year?

888
00:53:16,239 --> 00:53:17,040
Speaker 3: Without question?

889
00:53:18,080 --> 00:53:22,360
Speaker 2: With that of things which is which is a dirty underbelly?

890
00:53:24,560 --> 00:53:29,560
Speaker 5: I also ask with the fewer of a lower number

891
00:53:29,600 --> 00:53:33,279
Speaker 5: of available tags per state, does the number also go up?

892
00:53:37,280 --> 00:53:39,880
Speaker 3: Probably? I couldn't, I couldn't, you know, what we're seeing

893
00:53:40,000 --> 00:53:44,719
Speaker 3: now is just kind of just you know, you look

894
00:53:44,719 --> 00:53:47,360
Speaker 3: at you look at what what. What's been really interesting is,

895
00:53:48,560 --> 00:53:51,960
Speaker 3: you know, kind of ground zero for disease has been

896
00:53:52,000 --> 00:53:59,480
Speaker 3: in the Tristare area, Idaho, Washington, Oregon. Our chapters in

897
00:53:59,520 --> 00:54:02,399
Speaker 3: the read and the agencies in the region, wild cheap

898
00:54:02,440 --> 00:54:07,239
Speaker 3: foundations pump millions of dollars into disease research, into kind

899
00:54:07,239 --> 00:54:11,800
Speaker 3: of some novel separation policies, in some draconian policies like test,

900
00:54:12,239 --> 00:54:13,160
Speaker 3: test and remove.

901
00:54:13,880 --> 00:54:16,200
Speaker 4: We kind of talking pneumonia, correct.

902
00:54:15,920 --> 00:54:19,359
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, Michael, plasma. Pneumonia is a setup agent. It's

903
00:54:19,400 --> 00:54:21,880
Speaker 3: a pathogen and what it what it does is it

904
00:54:21,920 --> 00:54:26,479
Speaker 3: can lead to ammonia. Okay. Pneumonia primarily comes from domestic sheep,

905
00:54:26,640 --> 00:54:30,680
Speaker 3: also domestic goats. It can be within a wild cheap population,

906
00:54:30,800 --> 00:54:33,879
Speaker 3: so it can be endemic once they get it from

907
00:54:33,960 --> 00:54:39,399
Speaker 3: a you know, from a vector a source domestic sheeper, goat. Well,

908
00:54:39,440 --> 00:54:43,759
Speaker 3: we've we've done collectively a pretty damn good job of

909
00:54:43,760 --> 00:54:47,440
Speaker 3: of At one point we eliminated Michael plasmo and pneumonia

910
00:54:47,480 --> 00:54:53,960
Speaker 3: from the Hell's Canyon Complex. Better lamb recruitment, big rams

911
00:54:54,360 --> 00:54:58,280
Speaker 3: uh big, you know, And that's just that's just healthy sheep. Now,

912
00:54:58,520 --> 00:55:03,120
Speaker 3: Oregon tags selling like crazy, Idaho tag selling like new

913
00:55:03,160 --> 00:55:07,239
Speaker 3: state records taking in Oregon, Idaho, Washington. So you know,

914
00:55:07,280 --> 00:55:08,480
Speaker 3: there's just this dynamic.

915
00:55:08,640 --> 00:55:11,520
Speaker 2: But the buyers are like, this is the point.

916
00:55:11,800 --> 00:55:15,000
Speaker 1: I think that it's important to getting because it's important

917
00:55:15,000 --> 00:55:18,880
Speaker 1: to cover, because it's part of what it's part of

918
00:55:19,320 --> 00:55:24,720
Speaker 1: the social conversation being one. When when an auction tag

919
00:55:24,760 --> 00:55:35,160
Speaker 1: comes up, oftentimes the buyer is basically buying an opportunity

920
00:55:35,360 --> 00:55:38,239
Speaker 1: to go get a specific sheet that he has been

921
00:55:38,280 --> 00:55:43,160
Speaker 1: made aware of by his outfitter. Yeah, they're like, look here,

922
00:55:43,960 --> 00:55:45,600
Speaker 1: we got a two hundred inch ram.

923
00:55:46,840 --> 00:55:48,920
Speaker 2: You'll get to get it before the public.

924
00:55:50,719 --> 00:55:55,200
Speaker 1: Here, here's a dossier, here's all the photos of it.

925
00:55:55,360 --> 00:55:58,000
Speaker 1: You buy it, you hire us, I'll guy our guys,

926
00:55:58,080 --> 00:56:00,759
Speaker 1: will keep an eye on it, will put six seven

927
00:56:00,800 --> 00:56:04,040
Speaker 1: guys out and watch it. You show up, boom, it's

928
00:56:04,080 --> 00:56:08,839
Speaker 1: yours because we're already on it. And that burns people's ass, it.

929
00:56:08,760 --> 00:56:11,080
Speaker 3: Does, and that and and I would call you know,

930
00:56:11,120 --> 00:56:15,000
Speaker 3: in that scenario, that is a dirty underbella belly. Now

931
00:56:15,000 --> 00:56:17,799
Speaker 3: now you've got another scenario, and but is that the tag?

932
00:56:17,880 --> 00:56:20,480
Speaker 2: But that but again, is that the tag's fault?

933
00:56:20,600 --> 00:56:25,880
Speaker 3: No, it's not. It's it's it's the it's our fault,

934
00:56:26,480 --> 00:56:30,880
Speaker 3: it's it's the you know, let's let's push the envelope

935
00:56:31,000 --> 00:56:37,799
Speaker 3: on fair chase, which we need to clean up now,

936
00:56:37,880 --> 00:56:40,239
Speaker 3: you know, here's here's the here's a flip side of that.

937
00:56:40,920 --> 00:56:42,600
Speaker 3: And I'll tell you a little bit about the guy

938
00:56:42,640 --> 00:56:47,000
Speaker 3: that that bought the one point three million dollars new

939
00:56:47,040 --> 00:56:52,640
Speaker 3: Mexico tag two weeks ago. One point three So.

940
00:56:52,960 --> 00:56:56,040
Speaker 1: A new Mexico sheep tag went for one point three right?

941
00:56:57,000 --> 00:57:02,440
Speaker 1: It is that a new record, absolute new record? Is

942
00:57:02,480 --> 00:57:03,880
Speaker 1: he gunning for a specific sheep?

943
00:57:04,080 --> 00:57:05,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, he's gunning person. But I'm going to tell you

944
00:57:05,920 --> 00:57:10,879
Speaker 3: a story about him. But what he said, so holy yeah,

945
00:57:11,080 --> 00:57:12,040
Speaker 3: one point three million.

946
00:57:12,120 --> 00:57:19,200
Speaker 1: Now at that point getting suspiciously philanthropic, so yeah, you know.

947
00:57:19,400 --> 00:57:25,040
Speaker 3: Almost, So there there was a period of time where

948
00:57:25,520 --> 00:57:29,240
Speaker 3: you know, everyone was chasing very very large stone sheep.

949
00:57:31,200 --> 00:57:33,720
Speaker 3: So the BC minister's license, which is kind of a

950
00:57:33,920 --> 00:57:36,919
Speaker 3: unique license because and there is a raffle tag too,

951
00:57:36,960 --> 00:57:40,000
Speaker 3: but there's one, there's a there's a minister's license on auction.

952
00:57:40,400 --> 00:57:44,480
Speaker 3: There's a minister's license on raffle. The minister's license in

953
00:57:44,560 --> 00:57:48,040
Speaker 3: BC you can hunt they've got four you know, subspecies

954
00:57:48,040 --> 00:57:50,600
Speaker 3: if you will, but you know three species. They've got

955
00:57:50,600 --> 00:57:53,520
Speaker 3: doll sheep, stone sheep, bighorn sheep, but a bighorn sheep.

956
00:57:53,520 --> 00:57:55,919
Speaker 3: They've got California big horn and Rocky Mountain big onorn.

957
00:57:56,040 --> 00:57:57,640
Speaker 2: Oh, I got confused, I'm sorry.

958
00:57:57,720 --> 00:58:00,800
Speaker 3: And so there's there's a there's a subspe species of

959
00:58:01,040 --> 00:58:04,400
Speaker 3: bighorn sheep called California big horn. Yeah, but who has

960
00:58:04,440 --> 00:58:07,840
Speaker 3: all of them? British Columbia they have those. The only

961
00:58:07,880 --> 00:58:10,640
Speaker 3: thing they don't have is desert. But they have four

962
00:58:12,120 --> 00:58:16,280
Speaker 3: four wild cheap species dolls stone dolls, and it's a

963
00:58:16,520 --> 00:58:21,280
Speaker 3: teeny little area up in the far northwest corner adjacent

964
00:58:21,320 --> 00:58:24,120
Speaker 3: to Alaska, lower part of Alaska. So they have dolls.

965
00:58:24,520 --> 00:58:27,880
Speaker 3: They are you know, the location for stone sheep other

966
00:58:27,920 --> 00:58:32,400
Speaker 3: than fanning up in the Yukon. They have California big horn.

967
00:58:32,440 --> 00:58:33,200
Speaker 3: That's primarily.

968
00:58:33,240 --> 00:58:34,680
Speaker 2: That's what I was unaware of, is that like on

969
00:58:34,680 --> 00:58:36,720
Speaker 2: thet on the west coast in the it's.

970
00:58:36,520 --> 00:58:40,000
Speaker 3: In the Fraser River Valley and then and then bighorn

971
00:58:40,080 --> 00:58:44,919
Speaker 3: sheep around Fernie and the like. So you can buy

972
00:58:44,960 --> 00:58:47,480
Speaker 3: that tag and you can choose, you can choose which

973
00:58:47,520 --> 00:58:51,080
Speaker 3: sheep you want to hunt. So you know, years past

974
00:58:51,080 --> 00:58:53,120
Speaker 3: it used to be the chase a big horn. Now

975
00:58:53,160 --> 00:58:55,320
Speaker 3: it was hey, we're gonna you're gonna be able to

976
00:58:55,440 --> 00:59:03,040
Speaker 3: hunt early and late for stone sheep, and stone sheep

977
00:59:03,240 --> 00:59:08,200
Speaker 3: was the hot item. Uh that that permit went for

978
00:59:08,560 --> 00:59:14,160
Speaker 3: three hundred some one thousand dollars. There was a sheep that,

979
00:59:14,360 --> 00:59:16,200
Speaker 3: you know, a couple of big ones that people were

980
00:59:16,560 --> 00:59:19,080
Speaker 3: you know, knew that we're around. This guy knew that

981
00:59:19,120 --> 00:59:24,800
Speaker 3: they were around. They're all killed in an avalanche. Seriously,

982
00:59:25,160 --> 00:59:29,040
Speaker 3: seal ave. So now let's go back to the really

983
00:59:29,120 --> 00:59:31,800
Speaker 3: go back to the Yeah, it's like a pile of

984
00:59:31,920 --> 00:59:35,080
Speaker 3: four sheep killing an avalanche, all four of the big ones.

985
00:59:35,080 --> 00:59:39,600
Speaker 3: It's like, hey, that ram you are chasing no longer. Congratulations,

986
00:59:39,800 --> 00:59:43,080
Speaker 3: that's philanthropic petition.

987
00:59:42,760 --> 00:59:47,640
Speaker 2: For a refund. You gotta be kidding, no refund?

988
00:59:47,920 --> 00:59:48,800
Speaker 3: Can I? Can I?

989
00:59:48,800 --> 00:59:51,280
Speaker 1: I gotta explain something to folks. I'm trying to keep

990
00:59:51,280 --> 00:59:54,920
Speaker 1: this real one on one. Uh, just to point out

991
00:59:54,960 --> 00:59:57,920
Speaker 1: something obvious. The reason three hundred and sixty five days

992
00:59:57,920 --> 01:00:00,720
Speaker 1: a year is enticing for sheep because they don't shed

993
01:00:00,760 --> 01:00:03,760
Speaker 1: their antlers, which pointed out so like if you're if

994
01:00:03,760 --> 01:00:05,800
Speaker 1: you're hunting Elk. Let's say you're buying a governor's tag

995
01:00:05,800 --> 01:00:09,360
Speaker 1: for Elk, like that. Elk's gonna get maximum size and

996
01:00:09,400 --> 01:00:13,200
Speaker 1: get hard antlered in September, late August, early September, and

997
01:00:13,280 --> 01:00:16,880
Speaker 1: he's gonna drop his antlers down the road in March. Right,

998
01:00:17,320 --> 01:00:20,320
Speaker 1: So if you had three hundred and sixty five days,

999
01:00:20,320 --> 01:00:22,880
Speaker 1: and maybe you do, it doesn't really matter because you're

1000
01:00:22,960 --> 01:00:27,040
Speaker 1: chasing a how many months is that September, October, November, December, January, forebr.

1001
01:00:27,280 --> 01:00:29,840
Speaker 2: You got half half the year. He's gonna have that.

1002
01:00:29,920 --> 01:00:33,720
Speaker 4: And any antlered species could just bust them up.

1003
01:00:33,840 --> 01:00:34,400
Speaker 3: That's yep.

1004
01:00:34,480 --> 01:00:36,360
Speaker 1: And he could also snap them, yeah, and and and

1005
01:00:36,480 --> 01:00:38,280
Speaker 1: a lot of those big bowls, especially in the in

1006
01:00:38,320 --> 01:00:41,400
Speaker 1: the desert southwest, do snap them off. So like, but

1007
01:00:41,480 --> 01:00:44,000
Speaker 1: a sheep, I mean, by the time he's the kind

1008
01:00:44,000 --> 01:00:47,080
Speaker 1: of sheep we're talking about, this sheep is nine years old,

1009
01:00:47,120 --> 01:00:48,360
Speaker 1: ten years old, eleven years old.

1010
01:00:48,400 --> 01:00:50,600
Speaker 2: But he's got him. He's carrying his racky around.

1011
01:00:50,680 --> 01:00:53,000
Speaker 1: You shoot him in April, he's got the same he's got,

1012
01:00:53,600 --> 01:00:56,040
Speaker 1: that's right, the same attributes as you shoot him in November.

1013
01:00:56,080 --> 01:00:58,680
Speaker 3: Their horns not antlers, so you know they they wear

1014
01:00:58,720 --> 01:01:02,640
Speaker 3: their life on their head. So let's let's now go

1015
01:01:02,720 --> 01:01:05,640
Speaker 3: to the gentleman that bought you know, which is now

1016
01:01:06,160 --> 01:01:10,640
Speaker 3: the record for any any permit one point three million.

1017
01:01:12,600 --> 01:01:16,960
Speaker 3: I was visiting with him last week, thanking him. You know, wow, incredible,

1018
01:01:17,960 --> 01:01:19,560
Speaker 3: you know, how the heck did that happen? I mean,

1019
01:01:19,600 --> 01:01:22,160
Speaker 3: three hundred thousands a lot of money? One point three

1020
01:01:22,400 --> 01:01:27,960
Speaker 3: is I like what you said, that's pretty close. Uh

1021
01:01:28,320 --> 01:01:30,800
Speaker 3: you want to wing? You want to wing on that hospital?

1022
01:01:33,000 --> 01:01:34,280
Speaker 3: And he says, you know, I knew it was going

1023
01:01:34,360 --> 01:01:38,240
Speaker 3: to go over a million dollars. I wanted to go

1024
01:01:38,320 --> 01:01:41,600
Speaker 3: over a million dollars. I'm happy. You know, season opens

1025
01:01:41,720 --> 01:01:45,360
Speaker 3: August first for me. I sure, hope a mountain lion

1026
01:01:45,440 --> 01:01:51,880
Speaker 3: doesn't get it, but it is what it is. That's philanthropic.

1027
01:01:52,240 --> 01:01:54,439
Speaker 3: That is a guy, and he's done very very well

1028
01:01:54,480 --> 01:01:59,040
Speaker 3: obviously in life. And crazy enough. I think there were

1029
01:01:59,080 --> 01:02:00,800
Speaker 3: three bidders in it at one point two.

1030
01:02:02,240 --> 01:02:05,360
Speaker 2: So at one point those guys like enough is enough?

1031
01:02:06,640 --> 01:02:09,280
Speaker 3: Just amazing. I mean you can imagine the energy in

1032
01:02:09,320 --> 01:02:10,480
Speaker 3: the room when you see that.

1033
01:02:10,600 --> 01:02:13,439
Speaker 2: Tell me about the sheep? Yeah, like, what's the sheep?

1034
01:02:13,480 --> 01:02:13,720
Speaker 3: They know?

1035
01:02:14,000 --> 01:02:16,560
Speaker 4: Why so much of this year and not after that

1036
01:02:16,600 --> 01:02:17,520
Speaker 4: sheep last year?

1037
01:02:17,680 --> 01:02:20,280
Speaker 3: There's a you know, two hundred points is kind of

1038
01:02:20,280 --> 01:02:25,200
Speaker 3: the holy Rail. And so there's there is a you know,

1039
01:02:25,280 --> 01:02:28,920
Speaker 3: there is the thought that the largest big horn in

1040
01:02:29,080 --> 01:02:32,400
Speaker 3: North America is in New Mexico is alive right now.

1041
01:02:32,440 --> 01:02:34,560
Speaker 2: So there you go, and he's got a price on

1042
01:02:34,600 --> 01:02:35,160
Speaker 2: his head.

1043
01:02:35,080 --> 01:02:39,440
Speaker 3: And so well, let me is that unseemly Well, I guess.

1044
01:02:39,680 --> 01:02:42,040
Speaker 3: But you know, Steve, you pointed out that, hey, if

1045
01:02:42,040 --> 01:02:45,360
Speaker 3: the if the goal is to raise the most money

1046
01:02:45,400 --> 01:02:49,080
Speaker 3: for the resource, well this is how we're going to

1047
01:02:49,120 --> 01:02:51,080
Speaker 3: do it. Now, we just need to make sure that

1048
01:02:52,240 --> 01:02:56,080
Speaker 3: it's ethical, you know the view. And Brodie, I think

1049
01:02:56,080 --> 01:02:59,320
Speaker 3: you touched on that. If there's ten guys you know,

1050
01:02:59,400 --> 01:03:01,840
Speaker 3: out on the out and they're you know, there's camping

1051
01:03:01,920 --> 01:03:05,520
Speaker 3: on the sheep, it doesn't smell right and it doesn't

1052
01:03:05,560 --> 01:03:07,720
Speaker 3: look right. But it's not illegal. No, it is.

1053
01:03:07,800 --> 01:03:10,040
Speaker 1: No, you're never gonna get there. You're never going to

1054
01:03:10,240 --> 01:03:16,880
Speaker 1: enforce you're never going to create a you're never going

1055
01:03:16,960 --> 01:03:19,960
Speaker 1: to create a secondary set of laws that someone's going

1056
01:03:20,040 --> 01:03:21,040
Speaker 1: to have to apply to.

1057
01:03:21,360 --> 01:03:21,640
Speaker 3: Now.

1058
01:03:21,960 --> 01:03:24,320
Speaker 1: Let me give you for instance, me and Brody go

1059
01:03:24,360 --> 01:03:28,920
Speaker 1: home with our little kids. Okay, some of them at

1060
01:03:28,960 --> 01:03:32,560
Speaker 1: a certain age that they can shoot before they're like

1061
01:03:33,240 --> 01:03:39,600
Speaker 1: terribly helpful, right, They don't know even when we leave

1062
01:03:39,680 --> 01:03:41,880
Speaker 1: home a ten year old, they're not even really aware

1063
01:03:41,880 --> 01:03:47,120
Speaker 1: of what direction you're Okay, So we're out with our kids.

1064
01:03:47,640 --> 01:03:50,320
Speaker 1: So and so sees a buck, he tells another growing up,

1065
01:03:50,360 --> 01:03:53,640
Speaker 1: he sees the buck. You know, we tell the kid.

1066
01:03:53,720 --> 01:03:56,080
Speaker 1: You know, you drag the kid out of their sleeping bag.

1067
01:03:56,800 --> 01:04:00,320
Speaker 1: We gotta start walking. They don't really know, right, and

1068
01:04:00,400 --> 01:04:03,400
Speaker 1: eventually you're like there he is, get them right, Okay,

1069
01:04:04,400 --> 01:04:09,640
Speaker 1: So would someone goal that's unethical? That kid, That child

1070
01:04:09,960 --> 01:04:14,760
Speaker 1: didn't glass, they didn't scout, they didn't glass that buck

1071
01:04:14,840 --> 01:04:18,400
Speaker 1: up right, right, So you're never gonna get there where

1072
01:04:18,440 --> 01:04:22,560
Speaker 1: you're gonna come in and be that operating within the

1073
01:04:22,600 --> 01:04:25,600
Speaker 1: confines of the law, we would expect it to be different.

1074
01:04:25,720 --> 01:04:29,160
Speaker 1: Meaning if I apply for twenty five years and I

1075
01:04:29,240 --> 01:04:32,040
Speaker 1: draw a big horn tag and all my bodies at

1076
01:04:32,040 --> 01:04:34,160
Speaker 1: work and I could see this happening, Oh yeah, all

1077
01:04:34,160 --> 01:04:34,960
Speaker 1: my bodies.

1078
01:04:34,680 --> 01:04:36,880
Speaker 2: At work are like, oh man, what a riot?

1079
01:04:37,320 --> 01:04:40,880
Speaker 1: And three of us go up in jet boats, right,

1080
01:04:41,440 --> 01:04:43,640
Speaker 1: and we pour the coals to it glass and for sheep.

1081
01:04:44,000 --> 01:04:45,960
Speaker 1: And one of my buddies comes into camp. He's like,

1082
01:04:46,040 --> 01:04:46,960
Speaker 1: we found a giant.

1083
01:04:48,840 --> 01:04:50,960
Speaker 4: You're not gonna be like I want to find it myself.

1084
01:04:51,160 --> 01:04:53,560
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna wind up being like raked over the

1085
01:04:53,560 --> 01:04:54,600
Speaker 1: coals about it.

1086
01:04:54,600 --> 01:04:56,080
Speaker 2: It would be like, no, they went up.

1087
01:04:56,440 --> 01:04:59,160
Speaker 1: But there's a thing that happens where it's like there's

1088
01:04:59,200 --> 01:05:01,560
Speaker 1: already a finance, it's a bitterness, and then on top

1089
01:05:01,600 --> 01:05:05,560
Speaker 1: of that, there's a.

1090
01:05:04,240 --> 01:05:05,440
Speaker 2: Added bunch of.

1091
01:05:08,160 --> 01:05:12,960
Speaker 1: What seems to be like shortcut taking, right, and it

1092
01:05:13,160 --> 01:05:16,640
Speaker 1: tarnishes the thing. But but in people's eyes. But then

1093
01:05:16,720 --> 01:05:18,920
Speaker 1: in all fairness, like, are you really going to make

1094
01:05:18,960 --> 01:05:20,000
Speaker 1: a separate set of.

1095
01:05:20,000 --> 01:05:21,200
Speaker 3: Game laws.

1096
01:05:22,560 --> 01:05:26,080
Speaker 1: For an auction tag holder that you wouldn't make for

1097
01:05:26,080 --> 01:05:28,200
Speaker 1: a guy that bought a but that that bought an

1098
01:05:28,200 --> 01:05:29,360
Speaker 1: elk hunt from an outfitter?

1099
01:05:30,000 --> 01:05:32,120
Speaker 4: Well, they do in some cases, they do make a

1100
01:05:32,160 --> 01:05:32,800
Speaker 4: separate set.

1101
01:05:33,400 --> 01:05:36,560
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, they extend, they extend the season like but

1102
01:05:36,600 --> 01:05:38,840
Speaker 3: you know, and and and that does it just it

1103
01:05:38,880 --> 01:05:42,560
Speaker 3: gets back to this, you know, what is the public

1104
01:05:42,600 --> 01:05:47,120
Speaker 3: perception and what's what's you know, what is the real grind?

1105
01:05:47,240 --> 01:05:50,880
Speaker 3: And again, I you know there's organizations that are well

1106
01:05:50,920 --> 01:05:52,760
Speaker 3: we just have to go to you know, raffle tags

1107
01:05:52,800 --> 01:05:57,320
Speaker 3: because that's that's more equitable. Well, so then the person

1108
01:05:57,400 --> 01:06:00,240
Speaker 3: wins the raffle tag. Is there also a team team

1109
01:06:00,320 --> 01:06:06,080
Speaker 3: of guides that go in and what's you know, what's

1110
01:06:06,320 --> 01:06:10,160
Speaker 3: what's the difference there? You know, I you know, and

1111
01:06:10,240 --> 01:06:14,600
Speaker 3: there there are crazy things that have happened. I've I've

1112
01:06:14,640 --> 01:06:21,600
Speaker 3: heard of the raffle tag winners outfitter calling the conservation

1113
01:06:21,800 --> 01:06:25,880
Speaker 3: permit outfitter saying, I'll tell you what, if your guy

1114
01:06:25,960 --> 01:06:30,400
Speaker 3: writes my guy a check for X amount of dollars,

1115
01:06:31,120 --> 01:06:34,320
Speaker 3: we'll let you go after that guy and we'll go

1116
01:06:34,400 --> 01:06:39,720
Speaker 3: after a second. That to me stinks and that's almost

1117
01:06:39,800 --> 01:06:45,720
Speaker 3: extortion and and so you know, and it's and this

1118
01:06:45,760 --> 01:06:47,880
Speaker 3: gets back to the social thing too. You know, any

1119
01:06:48,000 --> 01:06:55,240
Speaker 3: time that you know, a super high prices put on

1120
01:06:55,360 --> 01:07:00,200
Speaker 3: a resource, there's going to be challenges to that know,

1121
01:07:00,600 --> 01:07:04,040
Speaker 3: and we we know it. So you know, where the

1122
01:07:04,040 --> 01:07:07,560
Speaker 3: Wild she Foundation looks at this is, Okay, we're raising

1123
01:07:07,640 --> 01:07:11,160
Speaker 3: the most money for a resources resource that's got challenge,

1124
01:07:11,320 --> 01:07:15,000
Speaker 3: you know, whether it's disease in the Lower forty eight,

1125
01:07:15,320 --> 01:07:20,240
Speaker 3: whether it's drought in the Southwest, whether it's super heavy

1126
01:07:20,360 --> 01:07:26,200
Speaker 3: wet snowfalls up in Alaska. In the Yukon and dall

1127
01:07:26,240 --> 01:07:29,320
Speaker 3: sheep are starving and in some mountain rangings we've lost

1128
01:07:29,480 --> 01:07:32,760
Speaker 3: forty to fifty to sixty percent of the population. How

1129
01:07:32,760 --> 01:07:35,640
Speaker 3: do we bring them back? You know, we're always looking

1130
01:07:35,680 --> 01:07:37,960
Speaker 3: for Okay, how can we raise the most money to

1131
01:07:38,040 --> 01:07:40,200
Speaker 3: do it? How can we put that money on the mountain?

1132
01:07:40,240 --> 01:07:43,160
Speaker 3: How you know, how are we going to fund you know,

1133
01:07:43,240 --> 01:07:49,240
Speaker 3: disease research? So we see it, we do it. You know,

1134
01:07:49,280 --> 01:07:52,920
Speaker 3: a while she foundations directed since you know that first

1135
01:07:53,560 --> 01:07:57,360
Speaker 3: governor's tag, you know ed Hirschler's Wyoming Governor's tag. It's

1136
01:07:57,400 --> 01:08:00,880
Speaker 3: sold for twenty three thousand dollars in nineteen eighty we

1137
01:08:00,920 --> 01:08:05,600
Speaker 3: have put about eighty nine million dollars back into agencies

1138
01:08:05,600 --> 01:08:09,520
Speaker 3: for wild cheap conservation just on the sale of conservation permits.

1139
01:08:09,560 --> 01:08:13,640
Speaker 3: So it's very very effective. What I think we should

1140
01:08:13,640 --> 01:08:17,720
Speaker 3: be instead of us arguing on the well, you know

1141
01:08:17,800 --> 01:08:20,400
Speaker 3: that guy or gal gets a privilege that I don't,

1142
01:08:22,200 --> 01:08:24,360
Speaker 3: I would like us to do a better job of

1143
01:08:24,400 --> 01:08:26,720
Speaker 3: making sure that the dollars that are directed to the

1144
01:08:26,800 --> 01:08:31,800
Speaker 3: agencies are going where they should. And Steve, I think

1145
01:08:31,840 --> 01:08:34,120
Speaker 3: you asked that question early on and we didn't touch

1146
01:08:34,160 --> 01:08:38,080
Speaker 3: on it because there's some agencies that do an exceptionally

1147
01:08:38,120 --> 01:08:41,040
Speaker 3: good job and are very transparent of where that money goes.

1148
01:08:41,360 --> 01:08:44,960
Speaker 3: And there's some that aren't so. Wyoming Wyoming has the

1149
01:08:45,000 --> 01:08:48,479
Speaker 3: Wyoming Governor's Big Game License Coalition. So all the you know,

1150
01:08:48,520 --> 01:08:51,600
Speaker 3: the five cheap tags, you know, any of the the

1151
01:08:51,720 --> 01:08:55,799
Speaker 3: elk tags, any of the moose tags go into this pool,

1152
01:08:56,120 --> 01:09:00,719
Speaker 3: but they're separated out by species and then and then holders.

1153
01:09:00,880 --> 01:09:03,400
Speaker 3: You know, wyl mean Wild Chief Foundation has a seat

1154
01:09:03,479 --> 01:09:06,280
Speaker 3: on that. Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation has a seat on that.

1155
01:09:06,640 --> 01:09:09,200
Speaker 3: A mule Deer Foundation has a seat on that. That

1156
01:09:09,200 --> 01:09:11,800
Speaker 3: that coalition, the pronghorned guys, you know, all the little

1157
01:09:11,840 --> 01:09:16,080
Speaker 3: critter groups have have a seat. They then evaluate projects

1158
01:09:16,080 --> 01:09:19,320
Speaker 3: that are that are brought before the Big Game License

1159
01:09:19,479 --> 01:09:22,240
Speaker 3: Coalition to say, hey, we want to fund a sage

1160
01:09:22,280 --> 01:09:26,479
Speaker 3: brush habitat project that's going to benefit mule deer certainly

1161
01:09:26,640 --> 01:09:32,040
Speaker 3: certainly sage ins uh, maybe less so on bighorn sheep. Well,

1162
01:09:32,080 --> 01:09:34,559
Speaker 3: sometimes that those stakeholder groups will go, you know, we

1163
01:09:34,600 --> 01:09:37,960
Speaker 3: got plenty of money on the bighorn sheep pool. Let's

1164
01:09:37,960 --> 01:09:40,559
Speaker 3: pull a little bit out and collectively we agree we're

1165
01:09:40,600 --> 01:09:43,760
Speaker 3: gonna fun mule deer Conservation British Columbia does the same

1166
01:09:43,800 --> 01:09:47,799
Speaker 3: thing with their Habitat Conservation Trust. You know, the monies

1167
01:09:47,840 --> 01:09:50,679
Speaker 3: that we raise for the BC Ministry go into this pool.

1168
01:09:51,160 --> 01:09:54,400
Speaker 3: There are a group of stakeholders. Wow, Wild Chief Foundation

1169
01:09:54,560 --> 01:09:57,519
Speaker 3: has a seat, but we we have a representative that's

1170
01:09:57,560 --> 01:10:02,840
Speaker 3: from BC and they make decisions on where those moneys

1171
01:10:02,840 --> 01:10:06,800
Speaker 3: are spent. Oh that's transparent, very transparent. Nevada another one

1172
01:10:06,800 --> 01:10:08,880
Speaker 3: that does it really really well. Some of them not

1173
01:10:09,080 --> 01:10:12,160
Speaker 3: so well and with all the challenges and can you say,

1174
01:10:12,400 --> 01:10:13,960
Speaker 3: can you give an example of a bad one or

1175
01:10:14,000 --> 01:10:15,720
Speaker 3: is that? Is that not? Probably not a good thing

1176
01:10:15,760 --> 01:10:18,479
Speaker 3: for me to say because we partner with all So

1177
01:10:18,560 --> 01:10:20,679
Speaker 3: let me just talk about the good ones. But there's

1178
01:10:20,680 --> 01:10:25,000
Speaker 3: some that could do better and the mission we can Yeah,

1179
01:10:25,040 --> 01:10:28,479
Speaker 3: we can bleep it maybe, but you know the fact

1180
01:10:28,520 --> 01:10:31,960
Speaker 3: of the matter is, you know again I can show

1181
01:10:32,000 --> 01:10:35,040
Speaker 3: your Wild Chief Foundation spends our dollars. I mean, we

1182
01:10:35,080 --> 01:10:39,640
Speaker 3: do these conservation impact summaries. You know, we're we're absolutely

1183
01:10:39,720 --> 01:10:44,040
Speaker 3: transparent agencies not so so that's something that I think,

1184
01:10:44,320 --> 01:10:47,679
Speaker 3: you know, we as NGOs, whether it's Wild Chief Foundation,

1185
01:10:47,800 --> 01:10:51,519
Speaker 3: whether it's Mule Deer, whether it's ELK, whether it's you know,

1186
01:10:51,840 --> 01:10:55,400
Speaker 3: any of the organizations that are selling these conservation permits

1187
01:10:55,439 --> 01:10:58,920
Speaker 3: and driving the money back to the agency. We need

1188
01:10:59,000 --> 01:11:02,439
Speaker 3: to do a better job of holding our agencies accountable. Going, Okay,

1189
01:11:03,280 --> 01:11:07,400
Speaker 3: where is the money, where is it going? And is

1190
01:11:07,439 --> 01:11:10,400
Speaker 3: it going to the resource that it should?

1191
01:11:11,920 --> 01:11:14,280
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think that's important. Like something you said that

1192
01:11:14,680 --> 01:11:17,800
Speaker 4: there's not enough sheep to pay for themselves. I think

1193
01:11:17,840 --> 01:11:20,200
Speaker 4: a lot of people don't think about it that way, right,

1194
01:11:20,320 --> 01:11:23,840
Speaker 4: but it makes total sense. And you like a state

1195
01:11:23,920 --> 01:11:27,120
Speaker 4: like Montana or Colorado, you talk about elk like those

1196
01:11:27,120 --> 01:11:31,000
Speaker 4: things pay for themselves and more, Right, Brody.

1197
01:11:30,760 --> 01:11:33,280
Speaker 3: I wrote a paper back in the eighties before I

1198
01:11:33,360 --> 01:11:35,920
Speaker 3: was in the nonprofit and I was you know, it

1199
01:11:35,960 --> 01:11:39,559
Speaker 3: was kind of the economics of Honting and at the time,

1200
01:11:39,600 --> 01:11:41,400
Speaker 3: and I don't know what it is now, but at

1201
01:11:41,439 --> 01:11:43,680
Speaker 3: the time I was looking at Colorado. I used to

1202
01:11:44,240 --> 01:11:46,800
Speaker 3: lived in California, drive out to Colorado to hunt elk

1203
01:11:47,240 --> 01:11:52,160
Speaker 3: and at the time, I think non resident Colorado elk

1204
01:11:52,240 --> 01:11:58,120
Speaker 3: tags funded like eighty percent of Colorado fishing game back then.

1205
01:11:58,160 --> 01:12:00,479
Speaker 3: Now it's Colorado Parks and Wildlife, you know, I mean

1206
01:12:00,560 --> 01:12:04,640
Speaker 3: ELP paid the way and as we all know, you know,

1207
01:12:04,720 --> 01:12:09,400
Speaker 3: the non resident tags, you know pay the way primarily

1208
01:12:09,479 --> 01:12:12,400
Speaker 3: you know Montana. You know, what was it sixty nine

1209
01:12:12,520 --> 01:12:15,360
Speaker 3: thousand dollars, you know, sixty nine thousand dollars comes from

1210
01:12:15,439 --> 01:12:19,160
Speaker 3: resident big worn sheep, one hundred and twenty two from

1211
01:12:19,240 --> 01:12:21,000
Speaker 3: non resident, So for.

1212
01:12:21,000 --> 01:12:23,000
Speaker 2: A much smaller amount of tags, Yeah.

1213
01:12:22,920 --> 01:12:25,920
Speaker 3: Almost double. I mean, you know it's it's we pay

1214
01:12:25,960 --> 01:12:27,880
Speaker 3: one hundred and what one hundred and twenty five bucks

1215
01:12:27,920 --> 01:12:29,720
Speaker 3: for a for a sheep tag, you know, we can

1216
01:12:29,800 --> 01:12:32,360
Speaker 3: we can buy an unlimited, you know, so we we

1217
01:12:32,600 --> 01:12:34,720
Speaker 3: we can have that tag in our pocket. But if

1218
01:12:34,720 --> 01:12:36,719
Speaker 3: you draw in the limited one hundred twenty five bucks,

1219
01:12:36,760 --> 01:12:39,920
Speaker 3: it's seventeen hundred and fifty for a non res you know.

1220
01:12:40,000 --> 01:12:44,559
Speaker 3: So that gets back to this this social thing and

1221
01:12:44,600 --> 01:12:46,679
Speaker 3: Steve I, you know, I love it when you talk

1222
01:12:46,760 --> 01:12:50,880
Speaker 3: about it because you know, look at look at what's

1223
01:12:50,920 --> 01:12:54,440
Speaker 3: happened to our country. You know, we've we've become so polarized.

1224
01:12:54,880 --> 01:12:59,800
Speaker 3: You know, we identify with pretty asinine things. You know,

1225
01:13:00,040 --> 01:13:06,200
Speaker 3: we allow the media to fester that polarization even within

1226
01:13:06,280 --> 01:13:09,519
Speaker 3: our own community were you know, we we identify but

1227
01:13:09,800 --> 01:13:13,000
Speaker 3: by what rifle we use, and we criticize others that don't.

1228
01:13:13,600 --> 01:13:17,639
Speaker 3: You know, we we identify what freaking camo we use,

1229
01:13:17,760 --> 01:13:19,920
Speaker 3: and we create communities that if you're not a part

1230
01:13:19,960 --> 01:13:21,680
Speaker 3: of it and you don't wear my cameo, you're a

1231
01:13:21,720 --> 01:13:27,400
Speaker 3: bad guy, boots, you know whatever. We're so basic and

1232
01:13:27,800 --> 01:13:28,200
Speaker 3: it's like.

1233
01:13:28,479 --> 01:13:35,000
Speaker 5: Had but we have like a name for the guys

1234
01:13:35,080 --> 01:13:37,240
Speaker 5: who have six five.

1235
01:13:38,160 --> 01:13:45,320
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, the six need more, you know, and it's

1236
01:13:45,360 --> 01:13:48,280
Speaker 3: a great caliber. But I mean it's you know, we've

1237
01:13:48,320 --> 01:13:52,120
Speaker 3: taken the around the campfire arguing on whether the thirty

1238
01:13:52,400 --> 01:13:55,040
Speaker 3: six is better than the two seventy to this level.

1239
01:13:55,120 --> 01:13:59,280
Speaker 3: It's just freaking asinine now. And so you know, we

1240
01:13:59,439 --> 01:14:01,600
Speaker 3: fostered and now we're doing you know, we do the

1241
01:14:01,600 --> 01:14:04,800
Speaker 3: same thing on the funding, and I guess, you know,

1242
01:14:04,840 --> 01:14:06,879
Speaker 3: I would just hope that we could change the narrative,

1243
01:14:07,320 --> 01:14:09,839
Speaker 3: you know, and and start, you know, let's deal with facts.

1244
01:14:10,280 --> 01:14:14,920
Speaker 3: You know, Okay, the facts are Auction tags bring in

1245
01:14:14,960 --> 01:14:19,600
Speaker 3: more money than raffle tags at a far more efficient

1246
01:14:19,720 --> 01:14:22,160
Speaker 3: way of I mean, for Wild Chief Foundation is going

1247
01:14:22,280 --> 01:14:25,120
Speaker 3: to raffle off an Arizona big Horn Sheep tag. We

1248
01:14:25,240 --> 01:14:27,840
Speaker 3: get zero dollars for doing but we're gonna do it.

1249
01:14:28,080 --> 01:14:30,040
Speaker 3: We're gonna we're going to pay all that money to

1250
01:14:30,040 --> 01:14:32,880
Speaker 3: do it. We're gonna raise one hundred and twenty five

1251
01:14:32,960 --> 01:14:36,000
Speaker 3: hundred and fifty thousand dollars directed to Arizona Game and fish. Well,

1252
01:14:36,080 --> 01:14:38,760
Speaker 3: we we we held an auction. Now you know, yeah,

1253
01:14:38,800 --> 01:14:41,719
Speaker 3: that's expensive for us, but we're you know, we're four

1254
01:14:41,840 --> 01:14:44,640
Speaker 3: nights of auction and we raised five hundred thousand, so

1255
01:14:44,680 --> 01:14:47,880
Speaker 3: we know that it's the most cost effective is an

1256
01:14:47,920 --> 01:14:51,519
Speaker 3: auction tag. But we still get caught up in this

1257
01:14:51,720 --> 01:14:54,719
Speaker 3: social narrative. So what I want to really dive into,

1258
01:14:54,880 --> 01:14:59,080
Speaker 3: and that is that how how do we get beyond it?

1259
01:14:59,080 --> 01:15:01,639
Speaker 3: How do we get be on criticizing that guy because

1260
01:15:01,680 --> 01:15:04,479
Speaker 3: he wears Camo or we don't like his brand, or

1261
01:15:04,600 --> 01:15:07,240
Speaker 3: that gal because she's shooting a six or five creed

1262
01:15:07,280 --> 01:15:10,840
Speaker 3: More and we don't like that caliber. Uh to, why

1263
01:15:10,840 --> 01:15:13,559
Speaker 3: don't we just focus again on that ram lamb or

1264
01:15:14,000 --> 01:15:16,720
Speaker 3: you on a ridge line and go what's best for wildlife?

1265
01:15:19,400 --> 01:15:23,000
Speaker 4: What would the big horn sheet landscape in North America

1266
01:15:23,040 --> 01:15:25,000
Speaker 4: look like without this money?

1267
01:15:25,120 --> 01:15:27,320
Speaker 3: Nailed it? Mike Draw?

1268
01:15:27,479 --> 01:15:30,320
Speaker 2: Can Mike Draw like?

1269
01:15:30,479 --> 01:15:36,200
Speaker 3: We wouldn't have him? Right? Eighty three percent of agency

1270
01:15:36,360 --> 01:15:40,120
Speaker 3: funding right now in the US comes from the What

1271
01:15:40,439 --> 01:15:44,360
Speaker 3: happens when eighty three comes from an auction tag or

1272
01:15:44,479 --> 01:15:48,240
Speaker 3: raffle tag? Most of that? What happens when eighty three

1273
01:15:48,320 --> 01:15:51,760
Speaker 3: percent of that funding goes away? Where's it going?

1274
01:15:51,840 --> 01:15:56,479
Speaker 5: To come from question, do we have over time, let's say,

1275
01:15:56,520 --> 01:16:04,040
Speaker 5: the past ten years, from states that have sheep the

1276
01:16:04,240 --> 01:16:09,719
Speaker 5: amount of money, let's say, collectively across these states from

1277
01:16:10,200 --> 01:16:13,800
Speaker 5: licenses both in state and out of state, and if

1278
01:16:13,840 --> 01:16:17,200
Speaker 5: that has gone up over the past ten years or

1279
01:16:17,240 --> 01:16:27,240
Speaker 5: gone down as a sign of general hunter commitment to conservation.

1280
01:16:26,720 --> 01:16:32,599
Speaker 3: Of absolutely on Now are you are you saying total?

1281
01:16:32,720 --> 01:16:36,480
Speaker 3: You know, because we all know that revenue is generally

1282
01:16:36,520 --> 01:16:40,880
Speaker 3: going down because generally hunting numbers are going down. Yes,

1283
01:16:41,080 --> 01:16:44,559
Speaker 3: we saw during the pandemic a bump up. Yes we

1284
01:16:44,640 --> 01:16:47,839
Speaker 3: see a you know, the largest percentage of new hunters

1285
01:16:47,920 --> 01:16:51,240
Speaker 3: or women is you know, is that a significant percentage

1286
01:16:51,240 --> 01:16:53,720
Speaker 3: of the current You might be able to argue it,

1287
01:16:53,760 --> 01:17:01,960
Speaker 3: but it's significant. But here's the sad fact, and this

1288
01:17:02,040 --> 01:17:06,880
Speaker 3: gets back to impact. I can show you a nice

1289
01:17:07,040 --> 01:17:13,280
Speaker 3: linear upward trend on dollars going into wild sheep conservation.

1290
01:17:14,240 --> 01:17:19,960
Speaker 5: Collectively, cross okay, collectively, But the percentage of that that is.

1291
01:17:20,720 --> 01:17:24,439
Speaker 3: Oh, auction tex right, ten percent increase over the last

1292
01:17:24,479 --> 01:17:28,120
Speaker 3: ten years. It was seventy three percent in twenty fourteen,

1293
01:17:28,439 --> 01:17:31,240
Speaker 3: eighty three percent in the US. In so a ten

1294
01:17:31,280 --> 01:17:34,799
Speaker 3: percent increase in auction tag revenues going.

1295
01:17:34,600 --> 01:17:39,000
Speaker 6: To the agency and then and licenses, licenses not so

1296
01:17:39,200 --> 01:17:41,280
Speaker 6: and that you know that, you know that you could

1297
01:17:41,280 --> 01:17:44,040
Speaker 6: get US Fish and Wildlife Service data and you know,

1298
01:17:44,080 --> 01:17:47,000
Speaker 6: again there's been slight increases and then it kind of

1299
01:17:47,200 --> 01:17:48,599
Speaker 6: plateaus and then dropped.

1300
01:17:51,720 --> 01:17:56,800
Speaker 3: My concern is there's a linear growth in revenue going

1301
01:17:56,880 --> 01:18:03,320
Speaker 3: to wild sheep conservation sadly over the last say five

1302
01:18:03,880 --> 01:18:08,680
Speaker 3: years or so because of huge die offs in Alaska

1303
01:18:08,720 --> 01:18:14,240
Speaker 3: and the Yukon some diofs during disease, you know, from

1304
01:18:14,479 --> 01:18:18,240
Speaker 3: in Texas. I mean Texas had eighteen hundred desert big

1305
01:18:18,280 --> 01:18:21,800
Speaker 3: horn sheep five six years ago a little over five

1306
01:18:21,880 --> 01:18:27,320
Speaker 3: hundred now, all because of disease from odd AD. You know,

1307
01:18:27,360 --> 01:18:31,799
Speaker 3: there's forty thousand plus odd AD in the state free ranging.

1308
01:18:32,000 --> 01:18:35,200
Speaker 3: I'm not even talking about behind wire and we've gone

1309
01:18:35,200 --> 01:18:39,040
Speaker 3: from eighteen hundred desert big horns to less than six hundred.

1310
01:18:39,240 --> 01:18:43,120
Speaker 3: That scares the shit out of me. And so you know,

1311
01:18:43,200 --> 01:18:48,160
Speaker 3: I the point there is it gets back to impact

1312
01:18:48,200 --> 01:18:49,720
Speaker 3: and what are we doing with it? And are we

1313
01:18:49,800 --> 01:18:54,280
Speaker 3: holding the agencies accountable we can drive this money to them.

1314
01:18:54,800 --> 01:18:58,160
Speaker 3: Are we getting the bang for our buck? And that's

1315
01:18:58,160 --> 01:18:59,920
Speaker 3: for all of us to work on to ensure that

1316
01:19:00,080 --> 01:19:04,360
Speaker 3: we are and and money isn't everything. I mean, it's

1317
01:19:04,360 --> 01:19:07,400
Speaker 3: certainly a driver, but we have to make sure that

1318
01:19:07,479 --> 01:19:11,360
Speaker 3: we're doing as much as we possibly can effectively with

1319
01:19:11,400 --> 01:19:14,280
Speaker 3: the money. If we know what to do, how are

1320
01:19:14,320 --> 01:19:19,120
Speaker 3: we gonna deal with snowload in March April and Alaska?

1321
01:19:20,800 --> 01:19:24,000
Speaker 3: I don't know, you know that, I don't know you know.

1322
01:19:24,120 --> 01:19:26,800
Speaker 3: I mean it gets back to even some crazy ideas.

1323
01:19:27,000 --> 01:19:31,320
Speaker 3: We grow desert big worn sheep. We've done it in Texas.

1324
01:19:31,520 --> 01:19:35,200
Speaker 3: We've done it in Arizona. You just by putting water water,

1325
01:19:35,360 --> 01:19:39,599
Speaker 3: but we've actually, we actually intensively managed them in Texas

1326
01:19:39,640 --> 01:19:43,200
Speaker 3: to bring them from zero to eighteen hundred to two thousand.

1327
01:19:43,360 --> 01:19:44,679
Speaker 3: We did the same thing in Arizona.

1328
01:19:44,760 --> 01:19:47,560
Speaker 2: I mue like with with release, with using release.

1329
01:19:47,320 --> 01:19:51,679
Speaker 3: Sits captive bread and release done in Mexico. Literally grown them.

1330
01:19:51,760 --> 01:19:55,880
Speaker 3: We've grown them. Sonora is about fifteen thousand desert bighorn

1331
01:19:55,920 --> 01:19:58,320
Speaker 3: sheep in the state of Sonora alone, fifty percent of

1332
01:19:58,479 --> 01:20:01,840
Speaker 3: or behind wire. We have an initiative to say, hey, look,

1333
01:20:01,960 --> 01:20:06,040
Speaker 3: you know, let's use market forces to incentivize you to

1334
01:20:06,280 --> 01:20:08,800
Speaker 3: release them, and not a put in take scenario, but

1335
01:20:08,880 --> 01:20:13,240
Speaker 3: release them and create free ranging desert, big worn, cheap

1336
01:20:13,240 --> 01:20:16,599
Speaker 3: and suitable habitat. And we've got we've got great examples

1337
01:20:16,640 --> 01:20:18,400
Speaker 3: of people doing it. They're doing the same thing in

1338
01:20:18,439 --> 01:20:21,000
Speaker 3: cool Wheela, they're doing it in Sierra Leone, they're doing

1339
01:20:21,040 --> 01:20:25,639
Speaker 3: it in Chihuahua. So we can do it with desert,

1340
01:20:25,640 --> 01:20:28,720
Speaker 3: big worn sheep, with some caveats or some there's some

1341
01:20:28,840 --> 01:20:30,840
Speaker 3: challenges to it. You know, this is a you know,

1342
01:20:30,920 --> 01:20:34,760
Speaker 3: this isn't you know, raising whitetails in Michigan. But it

1343
01:20:34,800 --> 01:20:36,880
Speaker 3: can be done. Is that something that we could do

1344
01:20:37,600 --> 01:20:42,479
Speaker 3: in the northern climes. I don't know, but you know,

1345
01:20:42,560 --> 01:20:45,160
Speaker 3: you have a forty to fifty percent drop in doll sheep.

1346
01:20:45,920 --> 01:20:49,000
Speaker 3: You've got probably a ten to fifteen to twenty percent

1347
01:20:49,040 --> 01:20:52,960
Speaker 3: drop in stone sheep populations for a whole variety of reasons.

1348
01:20:52,960 --> 01:20:56,599
Speaker 3: It's not over harvest, you know, it's more environmental factors

1349
01:20:56,640 --> 01:20:59,519
Speaker 3: or disease. What are we going to do? I'll tell

1350
01:20:59,520 --> 01:20:59,960
Speaker 3: you what we need.

1351
01:21:00,040 --> 01:21:02,600
Speaker 1: And this is a whole other episode.

1352
01:21:02,680 --> 01:21:05,800
Speaker 2: I think if someone came in and proposed in Alaska

1353
01:21:05,920 --> 01:21:07,600
Speaker 2: doing like captive breeding.

1354
01:21:08,920 --> 01:21:12,160
Speaker 1: Juice to juice doll shoot numbers, I think that that

1355
01:21:12,200 --> 01:21:15,320
Speaker 1: would be like, uh, you know, you'd have a bigger

1356
01:21:15,320 --> 01:21:20,960
Speaker 1: controversy on your conservation tags and your question like, how

1357
01:21:21,000 --> 01:21:23,439
Speaker 1: do you find peace with it? There's a thing with

1358
01:21:23,600 --> 01:21:26,240
Speaker 1: There's a thing in rhetoric that I've just that there's

1359
01:21:26,280 --> 01:21:28,560
Speaker 1: an observation of mind when it comes to debate and

1360
01:21:28,640 --> 01:21:33,360
Speaker 1: rhetoric that I've pointed out a handful of times around

1361
01:21:33,439 --> 01:21:37,720
Speaker 1: conversations having to do with with the impacts of a

1362
01:21:38,120 --> 01:21:42,679
Speaker 1: of a border wall, okay, between US and Mexico, and

1363
01:21:43,120 --> 01:21:46,800
Speaker 1: when there's talk of building an impenetrable barrier between the

1364
01:21:46,880 --> 01:21:49,800
Speaker 1: US and Mexico to to try to get a grip

1365
01:21:49,840 --> 01:21:53,080
Speaker 1: on illegal immigration. There's this thing you bring up that

1366
01:21:53,160 --> 01:21:57,440
Speaker 1: one would bring up. You'd say that would be detrimental,

1367
01:21:58,400 --> 01:22:02,200
Speaker 1: that would be detrimental to wildlife. Move so jaguars desert

1368
01:22:02,240 --> 01:22:05,559
Speaker 1: big horns, right, Okay, that's like that's a thing to consider.

1369
01:22:05,920 --> 01:22:09,880
Speaker 1: Now someone can bring up, Hey, let's consider this.

1370
01:22:10,840 --> 01:22:11,800
Speaker 3: And people that.

1371
01:22:11,800 --> 01:22:18,160
Speaker 1: Are like vehemently supportive of a wall would be angry

1372
01:22:18,240 --> 01:22:21,080
Speaker 1: that you brought it up, right, They'd be like, well,

1373
01:22:21,160 --> 01:22:24,320
Speaker 1: you haven't lost your job, okay to an illegal immigrant.

1374
01:22:24,640 --> 01:22:27,519
Speaker 1: So they're angry that you're laying out all the facts

1375
01:22:28,560 --> 01:22:32,920
Speaker 1: for consideration. But in your own family, if you're proposing like, hey,

1376
01:22:33,000 --> 01:22:36,760
Speaker 1: should we go on vacation to spring. In that conversation,

1377
01:22:36,920 --> 01:22:39,960
Speaker 1: someone can say, well, you realize if we go on

1378
01:22:40,040 --> 01:22:43,639
Speaker 1: vacation this spring, that's going to mean that we are

1379
01:22:43,720 --> 01:22:47,439
Speaker 1: going to forego painting our house because it costs money. Now,

1380
01:22:47,479 --> 01:22:53,120
Speaker 1: the person that brings that up isn't attacked. It's like

1381
01:22:53,400 --> 01:22:57,280
Speaker 1: you're all airing the pros and cons, right, and then

1382
01:22:57,320 --> 01:22:59,800
Speaker 1: you come to an agreement. All the pros and cons

1383
01:22:59,800 --> 01:23:03,479
Speaker 1: can considered. We come to an agreement even though it's

1384
01:23:03,479 --> 01:23:06,920
Speaker 1: going to be detrimental wildlife movement, it is net positive

1385
01:23:07,240 --> 01:23:10,000
Speaker 1: to make an impenetrable barrier between the US and Mexico.

1386
01:23:10,080 --> 01:23:13,400
Speaker 1: Let's say, or even though we'll fore go painting our house,

1387
01:23:13,479 --> 01:23:16,760
Speaker 1: we're determining it's a net positive that we go on

1388
01:23:16,800 --> 01:23:20,559
Speaker 1: to family vacation. I think ultimately answer might be arrived

1389
01:23:20,560 --> 01:23:24,480
Speaker 1: at similarly around auction permits, it'd be like it's imperfect,

1390
01:23:25,360 --> 01:23:31,759
Speaker 1: it's imperfect. One could argue that by auctioning off a tag,

1391
01:23:32,320 --> 01:23:36,360
Speaker 1: we're removing a we're hypothetically removing a sheet from the pool.

1392
01:23:38,160 --> 01:23:39,280
Speaker 3: That's not perfect.

1393
01:23:40,400 --> 01:23:44,599
Speaker 1: The individual might use some hunting methods that aren't available

1394
01:23:44,600 --> 01:23:48,400
Speaker 1: to everybody else. That's imperfect, but net net, all things

1395
01:23:48,439 --> 01:23:51,719
Speaker 1: weighed in, the money is worth it. Like, that's probably

1396
01:23:51,720 --> 01:23:54,080
Speaker 1: the best you're going to do. Like, I don't think

1397
01:23:54,080 --> 01:23:56,080
Speaker 1: you're going to get it to where some guy reads

1398
01:23:56,600 --> 01:23:59,200
Speaker 1: online that someone bought a tag for one point three million.

1399
01:23:59,200 --> 01:24:00,680
Speaker 1: I don't think you're going to get it where one

1400
01:24:00,760 --> 01:24:04,479
Speaker 1: hun or one percent of the hunters are. You're never

1401
01:24:04,520 --> 01:24:07,320
Speaker 1: gonna get there, Right, it's gonna be that. Like the

1402
01:24:07,439 --> 01:24:14,240
Speaker 1: general sentiment is, eh, hate them rich guys, but uh,

1403
01:24:14,800 --> 01:24:16,719
Speaker 1: but that's a shitload of money for big horns.

1404
01:24:16,760 --> 01:24:18,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, and and in the.

1405
01:24:18,760 --> 01:24:20,759
Speaker 2: Long run, it's probably gonna mean more tags.

1406
01:24:20,880 --> 01:24:25,160
Speaker 3: Right, there's one, there's one more net positive impact. And Steve,

1407
01:24:25,160 --> 01:24:28,280
Speaker 3: you're right, you're you're absolutely spot on. There is another

1408
01:24:28,360 --> 01:24:30,439
Speaker 3: little thing that we have in this country that's not

1409
01:24:30,600 --> 01:24:34,320
Speaker 3: in others, which is the Pittman Robinson Act. And these

1410
01:24:34,479 --> 01:24:39,400
Speaker 3: these tag purchases are non federal dollars, so they're they're

1411
01:24:39,560 --> 01:24:42,680
Speaker 3: subject and eligible for a three to one match with

1412
01:24:42,880 --> 01:24:46,120
Speaker 3: p and R Act. So you know, we can we

1413
01:24:46,200 --> 01:24:50,040
Speaker 3: can draw you know, we can send one point three million.

1414
01:24:50,080 --> 01:24:52,000
Speaker 3: I you know we're gonna we're gonna get ten percent

1415
01:24:52,000 --> 01:24:53,599
Speaker 3: of US one hundred and thirty. You know, one point

1416
01:24:53,640 --> 01:24:56,360
Speaker 3: three minus one hundred thirty thousand dollars. We send that

1417
01:24:56,479 --> 01:24:59,920
Speaker 3: to New Mexico Game and Fish they can apply for

1418
01:25:00,160 --> 01:25:03,200
Speaker 3: three to one match from P and R act dollars

1419
01:25:03,240 --> 01:25:07,519
Speaker 3: for wildlife frustration and turned that into you know, a

1420
01:25:07,680 --> 01:25:15,200
Speaker 3: five million dollar bump. So, yeah, it is imperfect. It works,

1421
01:25:15,200 --> 01:25:19,080
Speaker 3: and I guess until we find something that works better,

1422
01:25:20,479 --> 01:25:24,080
Speaker 3: well why don't we live with what does work? And

1423
01:25:24,120 --> 01:25:26,880
Speaker 3: it has worked really really well from nineteen eighty and

1424
01:25:26,960 --> 01:25:32,599
Speaker 3: the dollars are there, and argue over what calibers better

1425
01:25:32,680 --> 01:25:33,720
Speaker 3: or what camos do you wear?

1426
01:25:33,800 --> 01:25:36,960
Speaker 2: That's a little bit more, you know productive.

1427
01:25:37,280 --> 01:25:39,880
Speaker 1: I think one of the one of the final points

1428
01:25:39,920 --> 01:25:43,200
Speaker 1: we had arrived at when we had this conversation.

1429
01:25:44,520 --> 01:25:46,400
Speaker 3: Was a sense of.

1430
01:25:47,920 --> 01:25:51,000
Speaker 1: You know, a sort of a sense of hope or

1431
01:25:51,040 --> 01:25:53,680
Speaker 1: a call to action that people would.

1432
01:25:57,920 --> 01:25:59,400
Speaker 2: Open their checkbooks.

1433
01:25:59,000 --> 01:26:02,759
Speaker 1: Up, open their card balances up to support raffle tags,

1434
01:26:02,800 --> 01:26:04,920
Speaker 1: and that you would arrive at a point where these

1435
01:26:05,040 --> 01:26:09,320
Speaker 1: raffle tags were netting equal to or more than auction tags.

1436
01:26:09,520 --> 01:26:12,040
Speaker 1: And I think you kind of touched on this early.

1437
01:26:12,040 --> 01:26:15,639
Speaker 1: But if we you don't think we're there not yet.

1438
01:26:15,840 --> 01:26:18,280
Speaker 3: But you know, we during our during the seminary, there

1439
01:26:18,400 --> 01:26:20,439
Speaker 3: was a guy adamant on, Well you know are you

1440
01:26:20,520 --> 01:26:22,559
Speaker 3: are you working on it? Well, yeah, we are. We

1441
01:26:22,600 --> 01:26:24,600
Speaker 3: looked at we looked at our raffles that we do

1442
01:26:24,640 --> 01:26:29,080
Speaker 3: at the convention, and you know, we were selling forty

1443
01:26:29,120 --> 01:26:34,919
Speaker 3: dollars tickets. Okay, we could not physically sell enough tickets

1444
01:26:34,960 --> 01:26:38,479
Speaker 3: in three day of expo to cover the costs and really,

1445
01:26:38,560 --> 01:26:41,120
Speaker 3: you know, really really make a profit if you will,

1446
01:26:41,240 --> 01:26:44,640
Speaker 3: which our profit goes right back into sheep conservation on

1447
01:26:44,760 --> 01:26:48,479
Speaker 3: doing it that way. So we you know, we we

1448
01:26:48,520 --> 01:26:51,040
Speaker 3: played the capitalists again. We go, okay, well we're going

1449
01:26:51,120 --> 01:26:52,960
Speaker 3: to sell these not for forty dollars, We're going to

1450
01:26:53,000 --> 01:26:55,400
Speaker 3: sell a thousand tickets at two hundred dollars, and for

1451
01:26:55,439 --> 01:26:58,160
Speaker 3: the stone Sheep, we're going to sell five hundred tickets

1452
01:26:58,160 --> 01:27:00,479
Speaker 3: at five hundred dollars. Is that too much? I think

1453
01:27:00,479 --> 01:27:02,960
Speaker 3: we figured out that it was. But you know, we

1454
01:27:03,040 --> 01:27:06,519
Speaker 3: increased our raffle take. So what I pointed out in

1455
01:27:06,560 --> 01:27:07,920
Speaker 3: this in this seminar.

1456
01:27:07,640 --> 01:27:10,800
Speaker 2: That helped the raffle take big time, big time, that

1457
01:27:10,800 --> 01:27:13,640
Speaker 2: that's five bucks a pop. Isn't getting it?

1458
01:27:14,000 --> 01:27:17,320
Speaker 3: Can't you can't process, you can't process enough. And you know,

1459
01:27:17,560 --> 01:27:21,600
Speaker 3: forty dollars stuff, We couldn't. We couldn't sell enough physically

1460
01:27:21,680 --> 01:27:24,960
Speaker 3: in three days to make it really profitable. You know

1461
01:27:25,000 --> 01:27:26,719
Speaker 3: what you want to do is you want a keystoneer.

1462
01:27:26,800 --> 01:27:28,280
Speaker 3: You want to double your money on each one of

1463
01:27:28,320 --> 01:27:32,519
Speaker 3: these things. Well, you know, very very rare these days

1464
01:27:32,520 --> 01:27:35,720
Speaker 3: for anyone to donate. There's a few, but donate a

1465
01:27:35,920 --> 01:27:38,559
Speaker 3: sheep hunt. You know you've got stone sheep hunts now

1466
01:27:38,560 --> 01:27:40,920
Speaker 3: selling for one hundred thousand dollars, big worn sheep hunts

1467
01:27:40,960 --> 01:27:44,720
Speaker 3: selling for one hundred and ten doll sheep used to

1468
01:27:44,800 --> 01:27:48,479
Speaker 3: be you're talking about, yeah, forty five thousand dollars. So

1469
01:27:49,160 --> 01:27:51,240
Speaker 3: you know, on a doll sheep hunt, we need to sell.

1470
01:27:51,439 --> 01:27:53,040
Speaker 3: We need to make you know, we need to sell

1471
01:27:53,120 --> 01:27:55,120
Speaker 3: at least one hundred thousand dollars worth of tickets to

1472
01:27:55,200 --> 01:27:58,439
Speaker 3: double our money a stone sheep if we're buying it

1473
01:27:58,520 --> 01:28:01,360
Speaker 3: at face value, we got to sell two hundred thousand dollars.

1474
01:28:01,360 --> 01:28:05,320
Speaker 3: So you know, we went to a different way. As

1475
01:28:05,360 --> 01:28:08,720
Speaker 3: I said in our seminar, if we can figure out

1476
01:28:08,720 --> 01:28:11,599
Speaker 3: a way to do it again, let's be intellectually honest.

1477
01:28:11,680 --> 01:28:14,320
Speaker 3: If our goal is to raise the most money, if

1478
01:28:14,360 --> 01:28:17,280
Speaker 3: we can find a way to raise the most money

1479
01:28:17,360 --> 01:28:20,920
Speaker 3: with a raffle. We'll do it because the objective is

1480
01:28:20,960 --> 01:28:23,640
Speaker 3: to raise the most money for the resource and for

1481
01:28:23,680 --> 01:28:25,200
Speaker 3: the habitat. Can you can you.

1482
01:28:27,320 --> 01:28:29,559
Speaker 1: Humored this question for ment? Yeah, the one that just

1483
01:28:29,560 --> 01:28:32,960
Speaker 1: went for one point three million? Right, walk me through?

1484
01:28:33,000 --> 01:28:35,360
Speaker 1: What would what would have happened? Walk me through if

1485
01:28:35,400 --> 01:28:37,360
Speaker 1: you had done a raffle in your mind the best

1486
01:28:37,400 --> 01:28:39,160
Speaker 1: way to do a raffle from your learnings?

1487
01:28:39,400 --> 01:28:44,800
Speaker 3: What would have what would that sheep tag have generated? Well,

1488
01:28:44,800 --> 01:28:47,280
Speaker 3: that was a big horn. So we we sold a

1489
01:28:47,320 --> 01:28:54,759
Speaker 3: big horn in Alberta. We bought the tag for eighty

1490
01:28:55,240 --> 01:28:58,160
Speaker 3: eighty thousand eight. It's a hunt, it's not a tag.

1491
01:28:58,200 --> 01:29:00,120
Speaker 3: I mean we actually bought an outfit at hunt for

1492
01:29:00,160 --> 01:29:02,880
Speaker 3: eighty thousand dollars and our objective was to sell two

1493
01:29:02,960 --> 01:29:07,160
Speaker 3: hundred thousand dollars worth of tickets and net one hundred

1494
01:29:07,200 --> 01:29:11,519
Speaker 3: and twenty. Okay, so you know, if we pay the

1495
01:29:11,560 --> 01:29:14,760
Speaker 3: outfit or eighty, we net one hundred and twenty. You know,

1496
01:29:14,880 --> 01:29:17,920
Speaker 3: theoretically we could direct one hundred and twenty thousand dollars

1497
01:29:17,920 --> 01:29:26,000
Speaker 3: into Big or Chief Conservation. We're you know, we're going

1498
01:29:26,080 --> 01:29:29,559
Speaker 3: to direct one point three million dollars. But what if

1499
01:29:29,600 --> 01:29:32,160
Speaker 3: you take but just take it I mean, I can't

1500
01:29:32,160 --> 01:29:34,320
Speaker 3: figure out how to get a one point three million

1501
01:29:34,360 --> 01:29:37,320
Speaker 3: out of a raffle unless it's take a nationwide lotto.

1502
01:29:37,479 --> 01:29:40,400
Speaker 1: But take a stab that, not the hunt, not the

1503
01:29:40,400 --> 01:29:43,280
Speaker 1: guided hunt, but take a stab that had there been

1504
01:29:43,320 --> 01:29:46,280
Speaker 1: a raffle. Just in you're just the best year because

1505
01:29:46,280 --> 01:29:50,600
Speaker 1: you're probably more qualified to answer this imperfect question than

1506
01:29:50,600 --> 01:29:55,080
Speaker 1: anybody else on the planet. Had that been a raffle,

1507
01:29:55,720 --> 01:29:58,280
Speaker 1: that tag, that New Mexico tag, had that been a raffle,

1508
01:29:58,320 --> 01:29:59,240
Speaker 1: what would it have brought.

1509
01:29:59,000 --> 01:30:02,200
Speaker 3: In to two hundred and fifty thousand things?

1510
01:30:02,240 --> 01:30:08,479
Speaker 1: So yeah, yikes, yeah, really yeah, yeah, because you've done

1511
01:30:08,479 --> 01:30:10,120
Speaker 1: a bunch of raffles.

1512
01:30:09,479 --> 01:30:12,040
Speaker 3: We do a lot of raffles. But you know, I

1513
01:30:12,040 --> 01:30:15,600
Speaker 3: mean we could probably two hundred you know, maybe you know,

1514
01:30:15,680 --> 01:30:20,000
Speaker 3: if if you if, if you could get people, Hey,

1515
01:30:20,120 --> 01:30:23,120
Speaker 3: this is the biggest sheep in North America. This is

1516
01:30:23,160 --> 01:30:25,000
Speaker 3: what it's going to be. How long are you going

1517
01:30:25,040 --> 01:30:27,439
Speaker 3: to run the raffle? You know? I mean my hip

1518
01:30:27,439 --> 01:30:29,519
Speaker 3: pocket is two undred fifty three hundred thousand. Could we

1519
01:30:29,560 --> 01:30:30,360
Speaker 3: get a half million?

1520
01:30:30,400 --> 01:30:33,880
Speaker 1: Maybe that becomes a little obscure though, Yeah, how many

1521
01:30:33,920 --> 01:30:36,640
Speaker 1: notifying raffle buyers about this?

1522
01:30:37,880 --> 01:30:39,880
Speaker 3: That's the biggest biggest sheep in the world.

1523
01:30:40,560 --> 01:30:43,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, and so, yeah, I can see you're getting a

1524
01:30:43,200 --> 01:30:46,280
Speaker 1: real call from the Washington Gambling Commission a.

1525
01:30:46,040 --> 01:30:51,720
Speaker 3: Point and oh, by the way, Washington residents, Hawaii residents,

1526
01:30:53,360 --> 01:30:55,120
Speaker 3: you know, if we were going to draw this is

1527
01:30:55,120 --> 01:30:56,680
Speaker 3: a funny one in Nevada, If we were going to

1528
01:30:56,800 --> 01:31:02,160
Speaker 3: draw the hunt in Nevada, Nevada residents aren't eligible to

1529
01:31:02,200 --> 01:31:04,360
Speaker 3: do it online. They have to buy it there. So

1530
01:31:04,400 --> 01:31:07,439
Speaker 3: I mean the laws or Pennsylvania's got crazy laws. I mean,

1531
01:31:07,479 --> 01:31:10,599
Speaker 3: everyone's got interesting laws. We run our raffles. When we

1532
01:31:10,640 --> 01:31:13,559
Speaker 3: do a raffle, we run it out of Wyoming. We

1533
01:31:13,600 --> 01:31:15,920
Speaker 3: have an office in Wyoming. We run our raffles out

1534
01:31:15,920 --> 01:31:18,160
Speaker 3: of Wyoming because it's a little bit more generous on

1535
01:31:18,280 --> 01:31:22,160
Speaker 3: the our little liberal I guess you could say on

1536
01:31:22,200 --> 01:31:25,240
Speaker 3: the on the raffle laws. But we you know, we

1537
01:31:25,280 --> 01:31:28,760
Speaker 3: have run a foul on Washington and got called out

1538
01:31:28,760 --> 01:31:31,479
Speaker 3: on it. We've run a foul even in Montana, where

1539
01:31:31,520 --> 01:31:33,880
Speaker 3: one of my employees was trying to do the right thing.

1540
01:31:34,040 --> 01:31:37,320
Speaker 3: She thought by well, shoot, you know, I'll just if

1541
01:31:37,320 --> 01:31:38,840
Speaker 3: you want me to run your card right now, I'll

1542
01:31:38,840 --> 01:31:41,000
Speaker 3: just run it right now. She didn't know it was

1543
01:31:41,040 --> 01:31:44,000
Speaker 3: a credit card, not a debit card. I then got

1544
01:31:44,000 --> 01:31:46,080
Speaker 3: a phone call saying, hey, one of your employees. I'm

1545
01:31:46,080 --> 01:31:48,960
Speaker 3: with the Montana Department of Revenue. One of your employees

1546
01:31:49,000 --> 01:31:53,840
Speaker 3: just did an illegal raffle purchase for me. And I went,

1547
01:31:54,880 --> 01:31:58,479
Speaker 3: you know, now, do the right thing. Get burned. But

1548
01:31:59,080 --> 01:32:01,720
Speaker 3: you know, those are the things we're up against. But

1549
01:32:03,520 --> 01:32:08,559
Speaker 3: there we go. Yeah, it's good talking about this. Yeah,

1550
01:32:08,640 --> 01:32:11,280
Speaker 3: this is I you know, I appreciate it. I'm honored

1551
01:32:11,320 --> 01:32:18,080
Speaker 3: to be on the program. I really appreciate, you know,

1552
01:32:18,280 --> 01:32:23,759
Speaker 3: listening looking at the facts. What we have to really

1553
01:32:23,800 --> 01:32:27,439
Speaker 3: look at is is the why. You know, why is it?

1554
01:32:27,880 --> 01:32:31,320
Speaker 3: Why is it? Deep down inside we're envious of some

1555
01:32:31,560 --> 01:32:35,000
Speaker 3: you know, something that somebody else can buy that we can't.

1556
01:32:35,520 --> 01:32:38,960
Speaker 3: And that's really what the nut cutting comes down to,

1557
01:32:39,880 --> 01:32:43,439
Speaker 3: you know, it's just this, Uh that's human nature. So

1558
01:32:43,439 --> 01:32:46,080
Speaker 3: all we can do is provide the facts, do our best,

1559
01:32:46,200 --> 01:32:50,479
Speaker 3: focus on the resource, and be open to ideas. Come

1560
01:32:50,560 --> 01:32:52,200
Speaker 3: up with a better idea of how to find it.

1561
01:32:52,200 --> 01:32:53,320
Speaker 3: We're all ears.

1562
01:32:55,160 --> 01:32:57,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I can see that if someone if some

1563
01:32:57,280 --> 01:33:00,040
Speaker 1: mathematician came to you and said, uh.

1564
01:33:00,280 --> 01:33:02,440
Speaker 2: Gray, that that tag should have brought.

1565
01:33:02,160 --> 01:33:03,960
Speaker 3: Three million by my formula.

1566
01:33:04,080 --> 01:33:05,040
Speaker 2: You would take.

1567
01:33:06,800 --> 01:33:07,160
Speaker 3: The call.

1568
01:33:09,080 --> 01:33:12,559
Speaker 1: I would all right, I appreciate you coming on, thank you.

1569
01:33:13,360 --> 01:33:19,320
Speaker 1: I appreciate Joe, thank you. People can uh buy a

1570
01:33:19,360 --> 01:33:22,880
Speaker 1: raffle ticket? Perhaps next year you've been reno, you can

1571
01:33:22,960 --> 01:33:23,519
Speaker 1: you can buy?

1572
01:33:23,600 --> 01:33:26,200
Speaker 3: Uh? Will will you have raffles that we're offering online

1573
01:33:26,200 --> 01:33:29,160
Speaker 3: all the time, so are our chapters. We try to

1574
01:33:29,320 --> 01:33:32,680
Speaker 3: bay obviously all the laws. But uh, you know, if

1575
01:33:32,720 --> 01:33:34,800
Speaker 3: you look at if you look at cheap hunting right

1576
01:33:34,840 --> 01:33:37,639
Speaker 3: now and how expensive it is, raffles are the best

1577
01:33:37,680 --> 01:33:41,600
Speaker 3: deal going from a from a number standpoint, from an

1578
01:33:41,600 --> 01:33:45,280
Speaker 3: odd standpoint, so you know, get in all the raffles

1579
01:33:45,280 --> 01:33:49,439
Speaker 3: you possibly can, you know, and then also treat it

1580
01:33:49,520 --> 01:33:52,680
Speaker 3: like a portfolio. Put some money away every month to

1581
01:33:52,760 --> 01:33:54,080
Speaker 3: buy that cheap hunt someday.

1582
01:33:55,560 --> 01:33:57,439
Speaker 1: You know, I forgot to mention you're the CEO of

1583
01:33:57,479 --> 01:34:00,559
Speaker 1: Wild Cheap Foundation. Mentioned that, and then and tell people

1584
01:34:00,600 --> 01:34:03,400
Speaker 1: real quick if they want to get checked out on Wildsheep.

1585
01:34:02,920 --> 01:34:05,639
Speaker 3: What's the best approach? Yeah, come, We're we're based here

1586
01:34:05,680 --> 01:34:11,040
Speaker 3: in Bozeman, World Headquarters. But go to Wildheapfoundation dot org,

1587
01:34:11,120 --> 01:34:14,639
Speaker 3: Wildcheapfoundation dot org and you can see what we do.

1588
01:34:15,720 --> 01:34:19,440
Speaker 3: Last year, we directed eleven point one dollars to programs

1589
01:34:19,479 --> 01:34:23,479
Speaker 3: benefiting wild sheep. Pretty impressive for an organization with only

1590
01:34:23,560 --> 01:34:26,360
Speaker 3: eleven thousand members. So is that right? Yeah, you know,

1591
01:34:26,400 --> 01:34:28,800
Speaker 3: we're I like to say that, you know, we we

1592
01:34:28,880 --> 01:34:32,160
Speaker 3: may have a relatively small footprint, but we cast one

1593
01:34:32,400 --> 01:34:34,960
Speaker 3: hell of a long conservation shadow and we're proud of it.

1594
01:34:35,560 --> 01:34:38,200
Speaker 3: Great man, Thanks again, Thanks a lot to David. Appreciate it.