1 00:00:01,160 --> 00:00:04,120 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you missed in History Class from how 2 00:00:04,480 --> 00:00:13,640 Speaker 1: works dot com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm 3 00:00:13,680 --> 00:00:17,200 Speaker 1: Holly Fry and I'm Tracy V. Wilson. You'll hear that 4 00:00:17,239 --> 00:00:19,520 Speaker 1: again in a minute because we recorded it while we 5 00:00:19,560 --> 00:00:22,200 Speaker 1: were in Salt Lake City at Sala Comic Con and 6 00:00:22,239 --> 00:00:24,520 Speaker 1: we did a couple of live shows. Yep. One of 7 00:00:24,520 --> 00:00:26,720 Speaker 1: those shows was actually a panel where we talked with 8 00:00:26,760 --> 00:00:30,600 Speaker 1: authors who incorporate history into their fiction writing. We were 9 00:00:30,680 --> 00:00:33,000 Speaker 1: really really lucky to be at a convention that to 10 00:00:33,120 --> 00:00:36,280 Speaker 1: some amazing authors on hand who were willing to share 11 00:00:36,320 --> 00:00:40,839 Speaker 1: their process with us. This conversation covers everything from the 12 00:00:40,960 --> 00:00:43,960 Speaker 1: research process, to diversity and history to being kind of 13 00:00:44,000 --> 00:00:47,640 Speaker 1: precious about facts. I want to thank you Holly for 14 00:00:47,720 --> 00:00:53,800 Speaker 1: doing of the legwork on this panel. Um, Holly assembled 15 00:00:53,800 --> 00:00:56,720 Speaker 1: a great a great panel, some of them one of 16 00:00:56,720 --> 00:00:59,200 Speaker 1: them will be a familiar voice to listeners. And then 17 00:00:59,240 --> 00:01:04,880 Speaker 1: also a really interesting spectrum of how people incorporate history 18 00:01:04,920 --> 00:01:07,679 Speaker 1: into their writings, so you will get answers from a 19 00:01:08,560 --> 00:01:14,080 Speaker 1: wide range of sort of flavors of historical fiction. Yeah, 20 00:01:14,120 --> 00:01:16,120 Speaker 1: and I really should give some of the credit on 21 00:01:16,240 --> 00:01:19,360 Speaker 1: putting together that panel to m Ryan Call, who is 22 00:01:19,400 --> 00:01:21,840 Speaker 1: one of the amazing people that run Solid Comic Con. 23 00:01:21,880 --> 00:01:24,200 Speaker 1: I kind of put out a yell to him and said, hey, 24 00:01:24,240 --> 00:01:25,720 Speaker 1: we want to do this panel, and he gave me 25 00:01:25,760 --> 00:01:27,759 Speaker 1: suggestions on who might be good to talk to. So 26 00:01:28,080 --> 00:01:30,119 Speaker 1: thank you, thank you Ryan, thank you Solid Comic Con. 27 00:01:30,160 --> 00:01:31,960 Speaker 1: We had a wonderful time there. But we're going to 28 00:01:32,040 --> 00:01:35,399 Speaker 1: hop right into our discussion and then you two can 29 00:01:35,440 --> 00:01:38,160 Speaker 1: benefit from hearing about some of the interesting thoughts that 30 00:01:38,240 --> 00:01:44,360 Speaker 1: these authors had to share with us. Hello, and welcome 31 00:01:44,400 --> 00:01:47,560 Speaker 1: to the podcast. I'm Tracy Vie Wilson and I'm Holly Fry. 32 00:01:47,800 --> 00:01:49,280 Speaker 1: Have something cool today, which is that we're going to 33 00:01:49,320 --> 00:01:52,400 Speaker 1: talk to some actual authors about historical fiction. Yeah. We 34 00:01:52,440 --> 00:01:55,800 Speaker 1: often get asked and by listeners like if we would 35 00:01:55,800 --> 00:01:58,520 Speaker 1: cover like a historical fiction book. And since that's not 36 00:01:58,560 --> 00:02:00,480 Speaker 1: really part of the purview of the pod casts as 37 00:02:00,480 --> 00:02:03,320 Speaker 1: it exists, we can't really do it as a regular episode, 38 00:02:03,320 --> 00:02:05,440 Speaker 1: but for special events like a live event like this, 39 00:02:05,520 --> 00:02:09,280 Speaker 1: we absolutely can. Yeah. And it also instead of talking 40 00:02:09,280 --> 00:02:13,720 Speaker 1: about an individual book and and it's historical influence, we'll 41 00:02:13,720 --> 00:02:16,560 Speaker 1: be talking about lots of writers and lots of books. Yeah, 42 00:02:16,600 --> 00:02:18,519 Speaker 1: we thought we'd take advantage of the fact that we 43 00:02:18,560 --> 00:02:22,120 Speaker 1: are at a at a place where we have several writers, 44 00:02:22,480 --> 00:02:25,000 Speaker 1: um and writers of historical fictions, So we thought what 45 00:02:25,160 --> 00:02:27,840 Speaker 1: better way to explore that topic than to talk with 46 00:02:27,880 --> 00:02:30,520 Speaker 1: them about how they actually create the fiction that people 47 00:02:30,560 --> 00:02:33,520 Speaker 1: like you love because it blends sort of the wonders 48 00:02:33,639 --> 00:02:38,280 Speaker 1: of imagination with actual historical fact. So first we're gonna 49 00:02:38,320 --> 00:02:42,280 Speaker 1: have each of our wonderful panelists introduced themselves, starting with 50 00:02:42,320 --> 00:02:44,760 Speaker 1: this gentleman to my left. He's not a stranger to 51 00:02:44,840 --> 00:02:47,480 Speaker 1: the stuff you mission history class, audience. UM. My name 52 00:02:47,520 --> 00:02:51,040 Speaker 1: is Brian Young, and I'm the author of a children's 53 00:02:51,040 --> 00:02:54,040 Speaker 1: illustrated history of presidential assassination, which is what I was 54 00:02:54,080 --> 00:03:00,160 Speaker 1: on for before. UM, but in the historical fiction realm. 55 00:03:00,160 --> 00:03:01,960 Speaker 1: My last book was called The Aeronaut. It was sort 56 00:03:01,960 --> 00:03:06,360 Speaker 1: of a steampunk World War One novel. And additionally I 57 00:03:06,360 --> 00:03:08,280 Speaker 1: write for star wars dot Com and star Wars Insider 58 00:03:08,600 --> 00:03:12,760 Speaker 1: in a lot for Star Wars and UH really like 59 00:03:13,480 --> 00:03:19,120 Speaker 1: researching history. My name is Evie Wheeler. I'm the author 60 00:03:19,240 --> 00:03:22,200 Speaker 1: of the Haunting of Springett hall Um, which might guess 61 00:03:22,200 --> 00:03:26,160 Speaker 1: by the title is not completely historically accurate. UM, but 62 00:03:26,240 --> 00:03:29,799 Speaker 1: UM also Born to Treason, which is a lot more historical, 63 00:03:30,000 --> 00:03:33,760 Speaker 1: is based on actual events and No Peace with the Dawn, 64 00:03:33,960 --> 00:03:37,200 Speaker 1: which is coming out in November. So my name is 65 00:03:37,200 --> 00:03:40,280 Speaker 1: Brian mcfallen. I did give a caveat when we first 66 00:03:40,280 --> 00:03:44,000 Speaker 1: talked about doing this panel that I write epic fantasy. 67 00:03:44,120 --> 00:03:47,480 Speaker 1: I don't actually write historical books, but I am very 68 00:03:47,520 --> 00:03:51,640 Speaker 1: heavily influenced by history. But then I add magic and 69 00:03:51,680 --> 00:03:54,880 Speaker 1: a secondary world to it. Um, but my books are 70 00:03:54,920 --> 00:03:58,960 Speaker 1: the powder Made trilogy. We were actually really excited to 71 00:03:59,000 --> 00:04:03,720 Speaker 1: have that breadth of a range of from fantasy that 72 00:04:03,840 --> 00:04:07,040 Speaker 1: is sort of historically flavored to all the way to 73 00:04:07,080 --> 00:04:09,720 Speaker 1: the other end of the spectrum to your books. So 74 00:04:10,160 --> 00:04:12,640 Speaker 1: we're gonna begin with a question that is open to 75 00:04:12,680 --> 00:04:16,599 Speaker 1: anyone on the panel. UM. I have become a big 76 00:04:16,640 --> 00:04:20,760 Speaker 1: fan of Carrie Greenwood's Miss Fisher's Murder Mysteries books. I 77 00:04:20,839 --> 00:04:23,719 Speaker 1: like them quite a lot. And I noticed after reading 78 00:04:23,720 --> 00:04:26,040 Speaker 1: several which I am reading in order, that she started 79 00:04:26,080 --> 00:04:28,080 Speaker 1: to place notes along the lines of the one I 80 00:04:28,080 --> 00:04:30,839 Speaker 1: am about to read at the end of each book. 81 00:04:31,400 --> 00:04:34,839 Speaker 1: This says, this is a work of fiction. I have 82 00:04:34,960 --> 00:04:38,680 Speaker 1: researched it as carefully as I could. There are undoubtedly 83 00:04:38,880 --> 00:04:42,880 Speaker 1: some small errors of fact and timing, and one big anachronism, 84 00:04:42,920 --> 00:04:46,240 Speaker 1: which is that I unilaterally moved the flower parade from 85 00:04:46,320 --> 00:04:52,440 Speaker 1: nine to Please forgive me and do not feel moved 86 00:04:52,600 --> 00:04:58,279 Speaker 1: to correct me. Anyone else is welcome to email me. 87 00:04:58,800 --> 00:05:02,000 Speaker 1: And then she gets her email addressed. So I wondered, 88 00:05:02,400 --> 00:05:05,599 Speaker 1: for all these other writers of historical fiction, whether you've 89 00:05:05,640 --> 00:05:10,520 Speaker 1: had similar Uh. I need to correct things that are 90 00:05:10,880 --> 00:05:17,039 Speaker 1: historical parts of books that are actually fiction. I uh. 91 00:05:17,240 --> 00:05:20,440 Speaker 1: So I toyed around with historical fiction in college quite 92 00:05:20,480 --> 00:05:24,000 Speaker 1: a lot. I really enjoyed it because I love history. Um. 93 00:05:24,120 --> 00:05:28,760 Speaker 1: And this is the exact reason I don't write historical fiction. UM. 94 00:05:28,800 --> 00:05:32,360 Speaker 1: I am a Wikipedia writer, and I get a lot 95 00:05:32,400 --> 00:05:34,920 Speaker 1: of virals from other authors when I say this, because 96 00:05:35,080 --> 00:05:37,400 Speaker 1: I write in a fantastical world, and I do that 97 00:05:37,560 --> 00:05:40,560 Speaker 1: so that it's not this world. Uh. If I need 98 00:05:40,600 --> 00:05:43,560 Speaker 1: to research something, it's usually gonna be something like, you know, 99 00:05:43,600 --> 00:05:46,559 Speaker 1: the muscle velocity of a you know from the lock rifle, 100 00:05:46,800 --> 00:05:48,960 Speaker 1: you know, stuff like that. It's gonna be very specific 101 00:05:49,000 --> 00:05:52,039 Speaker 1: and easy to find. I don't do a ton of 102 00:05:52,080 --> 00:05:55,880 Speaker 1: digging uh, and try to be specific to a particular 103 00:05:56,160 --> 00:05:59,440 Speaker 1: year that I'm trying to copy. I try very much 104 00:05:59,480 --> 00:06:03,160 Speaker 1: to cap sure the kind of the feel of an era. 105 00:06:03,839 --> 00:06:07,680 Speaker 1: I want something to be you know, Napoleonic, but without 106 00:06:07,760 --> 00:06:11,880 Speaker 1: Napoleon and our own history, you know, muddling it all up. UM. 107 00:06:11,920 --> 00:06:14,119 Speaker 1: But I I had a huge fear when I started 108 00:06:14,160 --> 00:06:16,320 Speaker 1: my books that I would get a lot of that, 109 00:06:16,960 --> 00:06:20,160 Speaker 1: and it hasn't actually been a big problem. I've had 110 00:06:20,200 --> 00:06:22,320 Speaker 1: some history I've had one or two history buffs who 111 00:06:22,320 --> 00:06:25,599 Speaker 1: have said, you know, you're doing this wrong with you know, 112 00:06:25,760 --> 00:06:30,120 Speaker 1: like you know, your infantry formations, stuff like that. But 113 00:06:30,240 --> 00:06:33,400 Speaker 1: I I most of my feedback has been very positive. 114 00:06:34,640 --> 00:06:37,640 Speaker 1: I try to be um as precise as accurate as 115 00:06:37,680 --> 00:06:40,640 Speaker 1: I can be with my historical fiction, because it is 116 00:06:40,720 --> 00:06:44,440 Speaker 1: historical fiction, and there's always going to be someone out 117 00:06:44,440 --> 00:06:46,080 Speaker 1: there that knows a little bit more than you do 118 00:06:46,160 --> 00:06:47,920 Speaker 1: about it, and so you just you have to be 119 00:06:48,000 --> 00:06:49,880 Speaker 1: as as careful as you can and do as much 120 00:06:49,920 --> 00:06:53,479 Speaker 1: research as you can. We did have UM and No 121 00:06:53,600 --> 00:06:55,680 Speaker 1: Peace with the Down. I have a co author in 122 00:06:55,720 --> 00:06:58,599 Speaker 1: that book, and we do have a few things that 123 00:06:58,720 --> 00:07:03,200 Speaker 1: we UM knowingly put in there that weren't completely accurate. UM. 124 00:07:03,360 --> 00:07:06,800 Speaker 1: One of them was, UM, there were there were a 125 00:07:06,839 --> 00:07:11,080 Speaker 1: total of three African American women out of all all 126 00:07:11,120 --> 00:07:13,560 Speaker 1: the people that the US sent Overseas as a set 127 00:07:13,560 --> 00:07:16,200 Speaker 1: in World War One. There were three African American women 128 00:07:16,520 --> 00:07:18,560 Speaker 1: who went overseas. That was it. Those were the only 129 00:07:18,560 --> 00:07:19,920 Speaker 1: ones that were allowed to go, and they all went 130 00:07:19,960 --> 00:07:22,120 Speaker 1: with the Y M c A. And I thought that 131 00:07:22,160 --> 00:07:24,760 Speaker 1: their story was really interesting and I really wanted to 132 00:07:24,800 --> 00:07:28,000 Speaker 1: include like a mention or a cameo of them. But 133 00:07:28,160 --> 00:07:31,280 Speaker 1: they got there a little bit after. They got to Paris, 134 00:07:31,280 --> 00:07:33,640 Speaker 1: a little bit after my character left, and I just 135 00:07:34,520 --> 00:07:36,520 Speaker 1: I I had to fudge it a little bit and 136 00:07:36,560 --> 00:07:38,080 Speaker 1: have them be there, at least one of them be 137 00:07:38,120 --> 00:07:39,880 Speaker 1: there a little bit early so she could meet them 138 00:07:39,920 --> 00:07:42,240 Speaker 1: and have an interaction with them, because I just really 139 00:07:42,320 --> 00:07:44,920 Speaker 1: wanted to get their story in there a little bit. 140 00:07:44,960 --> 00:07:46,640 Speaker 1: So I but I do have a note at the 141 00:07:46,720 --> 00:07:49,520 Speaker 1: end that I say, yes, we know that this this, 142 00:07:49,520 --> 00:07:51,560 Speaker 1: this isn't right. They were a little bit later that 143 00:07:51,680 --> 00:07:54,520 Speaker 1: they got there. But sometimes when you just really want 144 00:07:54,520 --> 00:07:56,920 Speaker 1: to get a mention of something and they're kind of 145 00:07:56,920 --> 00:07:59,880 Speaker 1: like the moving moving the parade back by a year, 146 00:08:00,040 --> 00:08:02,480 Speaker 1: it's just the temptations a little too much to resist. 147 00:08:02,960 --> 00:08:04,520 Speaker 1: It reminds me of a game that I play a 148 00:08:04,560 --> 00:08:08,960 Speaker 1: lot of that is called Uh The Long Dark, and 149 00:08:09,000 --> 00:08:13,000 Speaker 1: it begins with this caveat that's like, we are aware 150 00:08:13,160 --> 00:08:17,400 Speaker 1: that wolves don't normally attack people, and you can sort 151 00:08:17,440 --> 00:08:21,160 Speaker 1: of hear that there there was some fatigue with that feedback, 152 00:08:21,560 --> 00:08:23,760 Speaker 1: but when they've decided to put it in there, I 153 00:08:23,800 --> 00:08:26,920 Speaker 1: think from my perspective, Kurt Vonnegut once wrote a book 154 00:08:26,920 --> 00:08:29,920 Speaker 1: that was interspersed with recipes for food because he wanted 155 00:08:29,920 --> 00:08:32,720 Speaker 1: to give a flavor of what the book kind of 156 00:08:33,160 --> 00:08:35,280 Speaker 1: felt like as you moved through it, and you put 157 00:08:35,320 --> 00:08:38,240 Speaker 1: a note in there about how none of the recipes 158 00:08:38,280 --> 00:08:41,760 Speaker 1: should be taken as literally. You shouldn't take his book 159 00:08:41,800 --> 00:08:45,120 Speaker 1: and go and do the recipes because they weren't accurate. 160 00:08:45,200 --> 00:08:48,160 Speaker 1: And then anyone worth anything would have the original recipes 161 00:08:48,160 --> 00:08:51,000 Speaker 1: and cookbooks on their shelves anyway. And I think that 162 00:08:51,000 --> 00:08:53,520 Speaker 1: that's sort of the flavor historical fiction needs to take, 163 00:08:54,240 --> 00:08:58,880 Speaker 1: uh in my opinion, because what you're trying to do 164 00:08:59,000 --> 00:09:01,440 Speaker 1: is contextualize and give a flavor of what that history 165 00:09:01,520 --> 00:09:04,560 Speaker 1: was like. And as a reader, you probably don't want 166 00:09:04,640 --> 00:09:08,520 Speaker 1: to say, you know that that fiction part means a lot, 167 00:09:08,760 --> 00:09:11,319 Speaker 1: and you don't want to say, no, this was innaccurate. 168 00:09:11,480 --> 00:09:14,000 Speaker 1: You know there needed to be more eggs than that recipe. 169 00:09:14,640 --> 00:09:18,200 Speaker 1: You know, I like that. Kurt Vonniguet could always find 170 00:09:18,240 --> 00:09:21,640 Speaker 1: a way to kind of like you people, which is 171 00:09:23,040 --> 00:09:25,480 Speaker 1: he's like, I know the recipes aren't right, you should 172 00:09:25,480 --> 00:09:28,480 Speaker 1: know better. He puts back on the reader, which I love. Uh. 173 00:09:28,640 --> 00:09:32,120 Speaker 1: The next question is for Emily specifically. You have a 174 00:09:32,120 --> 00:09:36,199 Speaker 1: pretty significant history scholarship background. You are not like a 175 00:09:36,280 --> 00:09:39,080 Speaker 1: layman in this world. Do you ever find it difficult 176 00:09:39,200 --> 00:09:43,600 Speaker 1: to diverge from the historical record as you're creating fiction. Yes, 177 00:09:43,640 --> 00:09:47,160 Speaker 1: it kills me. It's so painful. So I have a 178 00:09:47,200 --> 00:09:49,559 Speaker 1: master's degree in history, and I also have an m 179 00:09:49,679 --> 00:09:53,160 Speaker 1: l A and Historic Cultural Landscape, so I have a 180 00:09:53,200 --> 00:09:54,880 Speaker 1: lot of interest in that. I teach history at a 181 00:09:55,000 --> 00:09:57,840 Speaker 1: Utah State University and so so I do. I like 182 00:09:57,960 --> 00:10:00,400 Speaker 1: things to be accurate, and it's really it is painful. 183 00:10:00,440 --> 00:10:03,480 Speaker 1: It is hard to to step away from that. Even 184 00:10:03,480 --> 00:10:05,560 Speaker 1: when sometimes we just don't know things. There are some 185 00:10:05,600 --> 00:10:07,400 Speaker 1: things that no matter how much research to do, you're 186 00:10:07,400 --> 00:10:09,800 Speaker 1: never going to get that that detail or find that information. 187 00:10:09,840 --> 00:10:12,720 Speaker 1: And I will research it forever until I'm really really 188 00:10:12,720 --> 00:10:15,040 Speaker 1: sure that that that detail isn't out there, and then 189 00:10:15,040 --> 00:10:16,880 Speaker 1: I have to make it up. And it's it's scary 190 00:10:16,920 --> 00:10:18,760 Speaker 1: to do that. Because again, there may be that one 191 00:10:18,880 --> 00:10:21,839 Speaker 1: person out there somewhere that knows it and I don't, 192 00:10:21,880 --> 00:10:23,520 Speaker 1: and then they're going to come back and say, well, 193 00:10:23,520 --> 00:10:25,960 Speaker 1: you're an idiot because you didn't know this, and and 194 00:10:26,000 --> 00:10:28,160 Speaker 1: it just it is it's painful to change things or 195 00:10:28,200 --> 00:10:30,360 Speaker 1: to make them up, because especially when you've done so 196 00:10:30,440 --> 00:10:32,760 Speaker 1: much research to have it accurate and then have something 197 00:10:32,760 --> 00:10:36,640 Speaker 1: in there that that you know isn't That actually leads 198 00:10:36,679 --> 00:10:39,800 Speaker 1: really well into the next question, which is for anyone 199 00:10:39,800 --> 00:10:41,839 Speaker 1: on the panel who wants to answer, and I think 200 00:10:41,880 --> 00:10:43,920 Speaker 1: you probably would need to have very different answers. What 201 00:10:44,040 --> 00:10:48,680 Speaker 1: is your research process? Like, like I said, I'm a 202 00:10:48,679 --> 00:10:53,800 Speaker 1: Wikipedia researcher. You know, I try. I write very quickly. 203 00:10:53,840 --> 00:10:56,680 Speaker 1: I write in spurts. I'll write an entire novel in 204 00:10:56,720 --> 00:11:00,360 Speaker 1: just a few months after not writing for six months 205 00:11:00,559 --> 00:11:03,240 Speaker 1: because I'm just letting it percolate in my head. And 206 00:11:03,320 --> 00:11:05,600 Speaker 1: so to me, a lot of the times, if I 207 00:11:05,640 --> 00:11:09,880 Speaker 1: have to stop and go over and like look through things, 208 00:11:10,120 --> 00:11:13,320 Speaker 1: it derails my process completely. And so I'm I'm very 209 00:11:13,360 --> 00:11:15,880 Speaker 1: much about the pacing and the characters and the plot, 210 00:11:16,120 --> 00:11:17,880 Speaker 1: and I just kind of try to pound through it. 211 00:11:18,120 --> 00:11:21,120 Speaker 1: And my wife's my first beta reader. On everything, and 212 00:11:21,200 --> 00:11:24,360 Speaker 1: she gives me so much crap about it because she 213 00:11:25,280 --> 00:11:27,960 Speaker 1: loves doing research and she loves looking at all that stuff. 214 00:11:28,120 --> 00:11:30,760 Speaker 1: So oftentimes, you know, i'll be working on something, I'll 215 00:11:30,760 --> 00:11:33,000 Speaker 1: be like, honey, would you look this up for me 216 00:11:33,080 --> 00:11:36,280 Speaker 1: real quick, because I don't want to stop and do 217 00:11:36,320 --> 00:11:39,079 Speaker 1: it and I'll go back and change it later. But 218 00:11:39,520 --> 00:11:43,120 Speaker 1: uh yeah, so as limited as possible. But again, I'm 219 00:11:43,120 --> 00:11:46,600 Speaker 1: working in a second world, and I'm only going for flavor, 220 00:11:46,920 --> 00:11:49,760 Speaker 1: you know. I'm I'm aiming for something that's like like 221 00:11:49,840 --> 00:11:52,920 Speaker 1: more like a TV show would be that's you know, 222 00:11:53,000 --> 00:11:59,400 Speaker 1: in terms of historical accuracy, um, rather than being super accurate. UM. 223 00:11:59,400 --> 00:12:01,720 Speaker 1: I tend to start, UM. I find an idea that 224 00:12:01,800 --> 00:12:04,160 Speaker 1: I like, something that seems really cool, maybe a story 225 00:12:04,200 --> 00:12:05,920 Speaker 1: that other people haven't heard about, and I think, oh, 226 00:12:05,920 --> 00:12:08,080 Speaker 1: this is awesome. I have to tell this story. And 227 00:12:08,120 --> 00:12:10,240 Speaker 1: then I go and do the background research. So I 228 00:12:10,280 --> 00:12:14,160 Speaker 1: find um secondary sources, you know, books that just talk 229 00:12:14,240 --> 00:12:16,280 Speaker 1: about what life was like in this time period, and 230 00:12:16,320 --> 00:12:18,280 Speaker 1: I try to read the primary sources. I try to 231 00:12:18,320 --> 00:12:21,040 Speaker 1: read things that were written in that time period. UM. 232 00:12:21,080 --> 00:12:23,480 Speaker 1: If I can find journals and letters and things like that, 233 00:12:23,559 --> 00:12:26,120 Speaker 1: I I get really really in depth kind of the 234 00:12:26,120 --> 00:12:30,600 Speaker 1: opposite of Wikipedia isn't all bad, but that for me, 235 00:12:30,679 --> 00:12:33,160 Speaker 1: it would definitely be just a very base starting point. 236 00:12:33,240 --> 00:12:36,440 Speaker 1: So going back to those original sources trying to find 237 00:12:36,480 --> 00:12:39,559 Speaker 1: out and then as I'm writing, all ran into things. 238 00:12:39,559 --> 00:12:42,200 Speaker 1: You know, I'll talk about so many shoes and oh 239 00:12:42,240 --> 00:12:44,640 Speaker 1: do they have shoelaces or buttons? How did their shoes 240 00:12:44,679 --> 00:12:46,840 Speaker 1: go on? I need to find that out, or you 241 00:12:46,880 --> 00:12:50,319 Speaker 1: know what, what are they if they're celebrating a holiday, 242 00:12:50,360 --> 00:12:52,120 Speaker 1: how do they celebrate it? And go back and look 243 00:12:52,160 --> 00:12:54,840 Speaker 1: for those little details as I'm writing. Um. Sometimes I 244 00:12:54,840 --> 00:12:57,120 Speaker 1: do ride ahead and then go back and change it 245 00:12:57,200 --> 00:13:00,840 Speaker 1: later and check on it later. But um, but if 246 00:13:00,880 --> 00:13:03,320 Speaker 1: I if I do the research ahead of time, then 247 00:13:03,400 --> 00:13:05,559 Speaker 1: it's in my head enough that I can write quickly 248 00:13:05,559 --> 00:13:08,080 Speaker 1: because I do like writing quickly, and then go back 249 00:13:08,080 --> 00:13:11,040 Speaker 1: and fix the small things later. Um. I think for me, 250 00:13:11,840 --> 00:13:14,960 Speaker 1: I like to kind of research as I'm going in 251 00:13:15,040 --> 00:13:16,920 Speaker 1: that I'll do a lot of research to put the 252 00:13:16,960 --> 00:13:20,240 Speaker 1: story together. Reading history books. One of the things I 253 00:13:20,280 --> 00:13:23,000 Speaker 1: really love doing is is, uh, the two books I've 254 00:13:23,040 --> 00:13:28,080 Speaker 1: written that were historical fiction or alternate history fiction. Uh. 255 00:13:28,520 --> 00:13:31,280 Speaker 1: There are eras in which we can read newspapers from 256 00:13:31,280 --> 00:13:35,400 Speaker 1: that era and we can you know, you read how 257 00:13:35,440 --> 00:13:39,199 Speaker 1: people were writing, how people were quoted. Um, the ads 258 00:13:39,280 --> 00:13:42,599 Speaker 1: in those newspapers were surprisingly helpful because you know, I 259 00:13:42,600 --> 00:13:45,480 Speaker 1: would have never thought that tooth powder was a thing 260 00:13:45,640 --> 00:13:50,080 Speaker 1: rather than toothpaste or little details like that. Um. When 261 00:13:50,080 --> 00:13:53,440 Speaker 1: I was working on World War One stuff, I would 262 00:13:53,440 --> 00:13:55,280 Speaker 1: go over to the library and have my computer out 263 00:13:55,280 --> 00:13:59,320 Speaker 1: and I'd be working, but I just have, uh, I 264 00:13:59,400 --> 00:14:01,839 Speaker 1: pull out all the old big picture books with things 265 00:14:01,880 --> 00:14:04,760 Speaker 1: and just flipped through pages as I was going. UM, 266 00:14:04,800 --> 00:14:07,000 Speaker 1: And it was me trying to replicate sort of what 267 00:14:07,559 --> 00:14:10,520 Speaker 1: Martin Scorsese is he does in the editing room. So 268 00:14:10,640 --> 00:14:13,319 Speaker 1: on the editing room, Martin Scorsese has a monitor on 269 00:14:13,360 --> 00:14:16,360 Speaker 1: at all times with like Turner classic movies on it. 270 00:14:16,720 --> 00:14:18,480 Speaker 1: And it's because he's just every once in a while, 271 00:14:18,520 --> 00:14:20,880 Speaker 1: if he gets stuck, he'll glanced down and maybe something 272 00:14:20,920 --> 00:14:24,320 Speaker 1: whatever is randomly curated on the TV there might help 273 00:14:24,400 --> 00:14:27,000 Speaker 1: him get to that next thing. So that's me flipping 274 00:14:27,040 --> 00:14:29,800 Speaker 1: pages on three or four history books as I'm working 275 00:14:30,240 --> 00:14:32,520 Speaker 1: through scenes and through details. And I found so many 276 00:14:32,560 --> 00:14:34,480 Speaker 1: great details that I was able to weave into the 277 00:14:34,520 --> 00:14:38,480 Speaker 1: story that way as it was coming together naturally, you know, 278 00:14:38,640 --> 00:14:41,480 Speaker 1: I I should mention that like I think for a 279 00:14:41,560 --> 00:14:44,360 Speaker 1: lot of authors, I know epic fantasy authors that are 280 00:14:44,440 --> 00:14:47,520 Speaker 1: very much like this for me, that that the inspiration 281 00:14:47,600 --> 00:14:51,640 Speaker 1: that comes from reading history is amazing. Um. And I 282 00:14:51,680 --> 00:14:54,960 Speaker 1: don't know if it qualifies as research because I'm not 283 00:14:55,000 --> 00:14:59,160 Speaker 1: looking for specific details, but I'm looking for something that's cool, 284 00:14:59,280 --> 00:15:02,520 Speaker 1: that's a wow factor from history that maybe people don't 285 00:15:02,600 --> 00:15:05,880 Speaker 1: know about, or or maybe that's familiar enough to people 286 00:15:05,920 --> 00:15:09,080 Speaker 1: that it's a good way to transport them into another world. Uh. 287 00:15:09,240 --> 00:15:11,880 Speaker 1: My first book very heavily inspired by the French Revolution. 288 00:15:12,200 --> 00:15:16,640 Speaker 1: My second book very heavily inspired by Zeno fans Anabassis. Uh. 289 00:15:16,720 --> 00:15:19,360 Speaker 1: You know, I try to pluck things that are really 290 00:15:19,440 --> 00:15:22,400 Speaker 1: cool and you know, twist them and use them in 291 00:15:22,400 --> 00:15:25,280 Speaker 1: my own way. That's exactly why I love listening to 292 00:15:25,320 --> 00:15:29,400 Speaker 1: this podcast, to be honest, because no, it's it's I'm serious. 293 00:15:29,400 --> 00:15:32,680 Speaker 1: And this is why I tell writers feel like every 294 00:15:32,720 --> 00:15:35,160 Speaker 1: time I talked to writers while you're on it, every 295 00:15:35,200 --> 00:15:37,360 Speaker 1: time I talked to writers at conventions, I tell them 296 00:15:37,360 --> 00:15:40,600 Speaker 1: that that it's the sort of thing whether they're listening 297 00:15:40,600 --> 00:15:42,960 Speaker 1: to this one specifically or or just something like this 298 00:15:43,000 --> 00:15:45,240 Speaker 1: in general. But there isn't one as good as this one. 299 00:15:45,760 --> 00:15:50,360 Speaker 1: Um that you guys are curating content. You guys are 300 00:15:50,360 --> 00:15:55,800 Speaker 1: curating stories that I wouldn't necessarily seek out in any way. 301 00:15:56,120 --> 00:15:59,200 Speaker 1: So I'm getting just one story after another that maybe 302 00:15:59,280 --> 00:16:01,680 Speaker 1: they don't connect, but they're making me think about things 303 00:16:01,680 --> 00:16:04,200 Speaker 1: and soaking in those cool things. There are so many 304 00:16:04,200 --> 00:16:06,360 Speaker 1: episodes that I just save and go back to later. 305 00:16:06,800 --> 00:16:12,560 Speaker 1: The fantasy book that I worked on, the the the Werewolf, 306 00:16:12,960 --> 00:16:15,720 Speaker 1: the French Werewolf episodes, you guys did. I listened to 307 00:16:15,760 --> 00:16:17,640 Speaker 1: those probably four or five times while I was writing 308 00:16:17,680 --> 00:16:22,400 Speaker 1: that book. I I know myself and another epic fantasy author, 309 00:16:22,600 --> 00:16:26,360 Speaker 1: Brent Weeks, are both huge fans of hardcore history and 310 00:16:26,480 --> 00:16:30,440 Speaker 1: listen to that religiously. Uh and uh. And that's a 311 00:16:30,520 --> 00:16:33,920 Speaker 1: great one for me for just just sitting there and 312 00:16:34,000 --> 00:16:37,680 Speaker 1: listening about you have that emotion of history and and 313 00:16:37,760 --> 00:16:40,480 Speaker 1: trying to pluck something from it. I also have it 314 00:16:40,600 --> 00:16:44,040 Speaker 1: on good authority that history podcasts are great tools when 315 00:16:44,040 --> 00:16:48,280 Speaker 1: you're running a D and D campaign figure out what's 316 00:16:48,280 --> 00:16:56,880 Speaker 1: happening to your players. So that's actually pretty a pretty 317 00:16:56,920 --> 00:16:59,560 Speaker 1: interesting research sample set. I like how when we asked 318 00:16:59,600 --> 00:17:02,600 Speaker 1: about how the writers prepare their research and what their 319 00:17:02,600 --> 00:17:06,280 Speaker 1: processes like. They all gave completely different answers about it, 320 00:17:06,320 --> 00:17:09,520 Speaker 1: which kind of illustrates exactly what we were going for 321 00:17:09,960 --> 00:17:14,760 Speaker 1: a wide range of styles and writing types. So now 322 00:17:14,760 --> 00:17:17,320 Speaker 1: we will pause for a quick sponsor break, and then 323 00:17:17,320 --> 00:17:19,720 Speaker 1: we're going to jump right back into this writer chat 324 00:17:19,800 --> 00:17:27,280 Speaker 1: from Solid Comic Con. The next question that I have, 325 00:17:27,359 --> 00:17:29,960 Speaker 1: I'm gonna start with Brian, but if other folks have ideas, 326 00:17:30,000 --> 00:17:31,639 Speaker 1: I also would like to hear from the rest of 327 00:17:31,640 --> 00:17:35,960 Speaker 1: the panel too. Uh. In the last few years, there 328 00:17:35,960 --> 00:17:38,239 Speaker 1: seemed to be more and more books that come out 329 00:17:38,320 --> 00:17:41,920 Speaker 1: and somebody will raise the question of uh, the characters 330 00:17:41,960 --> 00:17:46,560 Speaker 1: in this book are not very diverse, uh, and often 331 00:17:46,680 --> 00:17:48,520 Speaker 1: enough for it to be a pattern in The response 332 00:17:48,640 --> 00:17:52,560 Speaker 1: is like, well that was history. Uh, So I wanted 333 00:17:52,600 --> 00:17:54,760 Speaker 1: to see what your thoughts were on that. Brian. UM, 334 00:17:54,800 --> 00:17:57,440 Speaker 1: I think that that's kind of being a lazy writer, 335 00:17:57,560 --> 00:18:01,400 Speaker 1: to be honest. I think when you look at things like, um, 336 00:18:01,400 --> 00:18:04,679 Speaker 1: maybe the way women are treated on Game of Thrones 337 00:18:04,720 --> 00:18:10,520 Speaker 1: per se um that that's it's historical in one way, 338 00:18:10,560 --> 00:18:13,760 Speaker 1: that he was basing it off of one perspective of 339 00:18:13,800 --> 00:18:16,920 Speaker 1: medieval Europe, but it's his own universe, so there's nothing 340 00:18:16,920 --> 00:18:20,160 Speaker 1: that says that that the culture as it exists in 341 00:18:20,160 --> 00:18:23,240 Speaker 1: that sexist form needs to exist that same way in 342 00:18:23,320 --> 00:18:28,159 Speaker 1: his universe. Um, you know you that you can find 343 00:18:28,240 --> 00:18:32,239 Speaker 1: ways to work around that and and stand behind that 344 00:18:32,320 --> 00:18:35,680 Speaker 1: fiction shield and come up with ways to to put 345 00:18:35,720 --> 00:18:38,080 Speaker 1: that together. I don't think that's necessarily whey or a 346 00:18:38,119 --> 00:18:41,119 Speaker 1: way to acknowledge it. Um. You know a book I 347 00:18:41,160 --> 00:18:44,840 Speaker 1: worked on, UH that that isn't out yet or anything. 348 00:18:44,840 --> 00:18:50,120 Speaker 1: It's about filmmakers in the nineteen teens running from Edison's patents, 349 00:18:50,160 --> 00:18:53,760 Speaker 1: men who were thugs that were hired by Edison to 350 00:18:54,200 --> 00:18:58,320 Speaker 1: shoot up cameras and make sure nobody made films unless 351 00:18:58,320 --> 00:19:01,600 Speaker 1: they were paying him what was essentially protection money. And 352 00:19:01,720 --> 00:19:04,000 Speaker 1: it was a very male dominated industry. It was a 353 00:19:04,080 --> 00:19:10,679 Speaker 1: very male dominated UH era. But finding ways to incorporate 354 00:19:10,760 --> 00:19:14,359 Speaker 1: female characters in more contemporary settings, Like I said, you 355 00:19:14,359 --> 00:19:16,879 Speaker 1: just need to give the flavor of that history. You 356 00:19:16,880 --> 00:19:19,600 Speaker 1: don't have to. You don't have to. I don't want 357 00:19:19,640 --> 00:19:24,000 Speaker 1: to say that it's masking what that history was, but 358 00:19:24,080 --> 00:19:26,960 Speaker 1: it's including people now into what it might have been 359 00:19:26,960 --> 00:19:30,240 Speaker 1: and finding ways to do that that are creative. Yeah, 360 00:19:30,280 --> 00:19:33,800 Speaker 1: I I agree that it's it's lazy writing to to say, well, 361 00:19:34,119 --> 00:19:38,280 Speaker 1: everybody was white, everybody was straight, everybody was male. I mean, 362 00:19:38,520 --> 00:19:40,600 Speaker 1: you know obviously that one's not true, but but the 363 00:19:40,640 --> 00:19:44,400 Speaker 1: other ones aren't true either. The other ones aren't true either. 364 00:19:44,440 --> 00:19:46,959 Speaker 1: That As I was, it's it's just a history has 365 00:19:47,000 --> 00:19:49,680 Speaker 1: been whitewashed and we don't look. Even European history, there 366 00:19:49,720 --> 00:19:54,359 Speaker 1: were there were minority groups throughout racial minorities and religious 367 00:19:54,400 --> 00:19:59,800 Speaker 1: minorities and um, sexual orientation minorities. They were all there 368 00:20:00,040 --> 00:20:03,119 Speaker 1: out history. They were they were part of the lands, 369 00:20:03,280 --> 00:20:06,359 Speaker 1: the historical landscape. As as I was researching for Born 370 00:20:06,400 --> 00:20:09,720 Speaker 1: to Treason, it's a it's a Welsh Renaissance setting. And 371 00:20:09,760 --> 00:20:12,000 Speaker 1: as I was, as I was looking through sources for that, 372 00:20:12,040 --> 00:20:15,360 Speaker 1: I found a book called Jews and Muslims in Medieval Whales, 373 00:20:15,440 --> 00:20:17,440 Speaker 1: and I was like, well, there's another book I'm gonna 374 00:20:17,480 --> 00:20:20,880 Speaker 1: have to write, because that's awesome. You don't you don't 375 00:20:20,920 --> 00:20:23,040 Speaker 1: think about that, You don't think that. But they were there. 376 00:20:23,119 --> 00:20:25,800 Speaker 1: We just sometimes you have to look for them. And 377 00:20:25,800 --> 00:20:27,760 Speaker 1: so even if you're writing, I mean, definitely, if you've 378 00:20:27,800 --> 00:20:30,359 Speaker 1: got a fantasy setting, you can you can play with that. 379 00:20:30,400 --> 00:20:35,400 Speaker 1: You can include um, people of different of diverse groups. 380 00:20:35,480 --> 00:20:40,399 Speaker 1: But but even if you're doing, um, just straight historical fiction, 381 00:20:40,480 --> 00:20:44,040 Speaker 1: and it's very accurate, it's based on research. Those those 382 00:20:44,520 --> 00:20:47,160 Speaker 1: minorities were still there, they were just kind of being 383 00:20:47,680 --> 00:20:50,480 Speaker 1: hushed up, and they weren't necessarily getting a lot of 384 00:20:50,520 --> 00:20:54,800 Speaker 1: attention from contemporary writers or sometimes even from historians today 385 00:20:54,840 --> 00:20:57,320 Speaker 1: who are still sort of digging them up. And so 386 00:20:57,400 --> 00:20:59,080 Speaker 1: it is out there and you can and you can 387 00:20:59,080 --> 00:21:02,639 Speaker 1: include it, and there's not really a good reason not to. 388 00:21:02,840 --> 00:21:05,560 Speaker 1: If you're like, if you're creating a community that's in 389 00:21:05,600 --> 00:21:10,120 Speaker 1: a historical setting, Um, it's a really interesting thing where 390 00:21:10,119 --> 00:21:12,760 Speaker 1: you can find that many of these communities had their 391 00:21:12,760 --> 00:21:16,800 Speaker 1: own sources of of outlet where you could read about 392 00:21:16,840 --> 00:21:18,960 Speaker 1: what they were doing. Um. I've been researching for a 393 00:21:18,960 --> 00:21:21,720 Speaker 1: long time a story about the Japanese internment in World 394 00:21:21,760 --> 00:21:24,840 Speaker 1: War Two, and I'd read, I'd read all of the 395 00:21:24,840 --> 00:21:28,200 Speaker 1: sort of contemporary accounts and things. But it wasn't until 396 00:21:28,200 --> 00:21:30,120 Speaker 1: I didn't feel like I had a full picture, until 397 00:21:30,160 --> 00:21:33,560 Speaker 1: I actually found the daily newsletters that they were printing 398 00:21:33,560 --> 00:21:36,080 Speaker 1: on the inside themselves and hearing how they were describing 399 00:21:36,119 --> 00:21:39,640 Speaker 1: that that in their own words, that I realized that 400 00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:44,000 Speaker 1: the history we knew was just sort of the version, 401 00:21:44,320 --> 00:21:46,760 Speaker 1: you know, it's it's true histories written by the winners, 402 00:21:46,880 --> 00:21:50,320 Speaker 1: and the Japanese internment is no different. In seeing how 403 00:21:50,359 --> 00:21:52,040 Speaker 1: they wrote about it in their own words was was 404 00:21:52,080 --> 00:21:56,600 Speaker 1: incredibly enlightening. I'm also going to take a moment to 405 00:21:57,400 --> 00:22:01,160 Speaker 1: pitch the medieval the people of color in European art history. 406 00:22:01,200 --> 00:22:04,840 Speaker 1: Tumbler is great. It's so good. Uh. Number one for 407 00:22:05,119 --> 00:22:07,879 Speaker 1: constant examples all over our history of Hey, it was 408 00:22:07,920 --> 00:22:11,840 Speaker 1: not all white people. Uh. But then number two for 409 00:22:12,040 --> 00:22:18,600 Speaker 1: the occasional indignant response to someone being terrible. Yeah, it's spectacular. Uh. 410 00:22:18,640 --> 00:22:22,480 Speaker 1: The next question is kind of for everybody, uh, because 411 00:22:22,600 --> 00:22:26,679 Speaker 1: you all love history and you love writing fiction. I 412 00:22:26,720 --> 00:22:29,919 Speaker 1: know Emily talked about worrying that someone else might know 413 00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:33,000 Speaker 1: a thing out there that she didn't happen to unearth. 414 00:22:33,160 --> 00:22:36,080 Speaker 1: But I wonder, just for any of you within yourselves, 415 00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:39,520 Speaker 1: how often do you find yourself battling going the root 416 00:22:39,560 --> 00:22:42,440 Speaker 1: of fiction in a moment versus wanting to stay true 417 00:22:42,480 --> 00:22:44,040 Speaker 1: to a piece of history that you might be in 418 00:22:44,080 --> 00:22:49,520 Speaker 1: love with. UM. I mean, for me, really it is 419 00:22:49,560 --> 00:22:54,840 Speaker 1: about that that flavor. UM. I haven't written anything, um 420 00:22:54,880 --> 00:22:58,399 Speaker 1: that was so specifically tied or married to that history. 421 00:22:58,440 --> 00:23:01,320 Speaker 1: It was always in service to the story, especially with 422 00:23:01,359 --> 00:23:05,640 Speaker 1: that that story about the filmmakers kind of battling Edison. Um. 423 00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:10,520 Speaker 1: You know, there are very few accounts, uh, and and 424 00:23:10,560 --> 00:23:12,840 Speaker 1: it's weird how many different sources you have to piece 425 00:23:12,840 --> 00:23:14,679 Speaker 1: together to kind of put together a picture of what 426 00:23:14,760 --> 00:23:18,960 Speaker 1: that would look like. Anyway, So that finding the exact history, 427 00:23:19,040 --> 00:23:21,879 Speaker 1: like enough of the background in the setting, that's what 428 00:23:21,960 --> 00:23:24,439 Speaker 1: I was important. That was what was important for me 429 00:23:24,480 --> 00:23:28,080 Speaker 1: to stay true to, rather than any of the specific details. 430 00:23:28,119 --> 00:23:30,720 Speaker 1: But that doesn't mean some of it, most of it 431 00:23:30,760 --> 00:23:33,920 Speaker 1: happens in Sacramento, And that doesn't mean I wasn't looking 432 00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:36,720 Speaker 1: up like maps in which streets the street car lines 433 00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:39,760 Speaker 1: ran on, and what colors the street cars were, and uh, 434 00:23:39,760 --> 00:23:41,880 Speaker 1: you know where the hotels were in relation to where 435 00:23:41,920 --> 00:23:43,639 Speaker 1: they'd be staying or where their office would be, or 436 00:23:43,640 --> 00:23:46,120 Speaker 1: things like that. It almost sounds like for every time 437 00:23:46,160 --> 00:23:48,880 Speaker 1: you take creative license, you build up the actual factual 438 00:23:48,960 --> 00:23:51,840 Speaker 1: stuff on the other end of it. I've found that 439 00:23:51,880 --> 00:23:54,639 Speaker 1: as well that we um so no no piece with 440 00:23:54,680 --> 00:23:58,439 Speaker 1: the Dawn the World War One novel. Um, we wanted to. 441 00:23:58,560 --> 00:24:01,479 Speaker 1: It's it's actually about Utah Utah's in World War One 442 00:24:01,480 --> 00:24:03,680 Speaker 1: and what happened in Utah during World War One, and 443 00:24:04,280 --> 00:24:08,159 Speaker 1: so we thought, well, we're both we're both um, we 444 00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:10,960 Speaker 1: will teach it Utahs. The university were up in Cash Valley, 445 00:24:11,119 --> 00:24:14,919 Speaker 1: but northern Utah. The Shoshone were the Native Americans that 446 00:24:14,920 --> 00:24:17,119 Speaker 1: were there in that area before, and we thought it 447 00:24:17,119 --> 00:24:19,040 Speaker 1: would be interesting to include them because they have a 448 00:24:19,040 --> 00:24:20,560 Speaker 1: lot of history in the area. But it's one of 449 00:24:20,560 --> 00:24:23,120 Speaker 1: those that's kind of been whitewashed, and so we thought 450 00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:24,960 Speaker 1: this might be tricky to like, well, how are we 451 00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:26,439 Speaker 1: going to work them in? And it turned out like 452 00:24:26,480 --> 00:24:29,359 Speaker 1: there was there was so much information, like the first 453 00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:32,399 Speaker 1: code talkers. The first code talkers weren't the Navajo in 454 00:24:32,440 --> 00:24:34,960 Speaker 1: World War Two, they were the Choctaw in World War One, 455 00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:38,200 Speaker 1: and we were able to work in some some details 456 00:24:38,240 --> 00:24:42,199 Speaker 1: about that. And so so it doesn't often Actually you 457 00:24:42,280 --> 00:24:45,160 Speaker 1: might be worried that you're maybe gonna step step away, 458 00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:46,800 Speaker 1: but as you do that research, a lot of times 459 00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:49,640 Speaker 1: you find these really cool connections back to the original 460 00:24:49,680 --> 00:24:52,000 Speaker 1: story that just it fits really well in it. It 461 00:24:52,080 --> 00:24:55,280 Speaker 1: just builds the story up more. You know. I am 462 00:24:55,520 --> 00:24:57,920 Speaker 1: actually I have a terrible memory, which is one of 463 00:24:57,960 --> 00:25:00,240 Speaker 1: the reasons I don't actually discuss history with other people. 464 00:25:00,280 --> 00:25:01,960 Speaker 1: Very much, because they'll be throwing facts at me and 465 00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:05,600 Speaker 1: I'll be like, yeah, that sounds familiar. Um, But I 466 00:25:05,640 --> 00:25:07,359 Speaker 1: have a terrible memory, and so I'll forget things all 467 00:25:07,400 --> 00:25:10,359 Speaker 1: the time, but I'll things will leak into my writing. 468 00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:13,480 Speaker 1: And I Uh. I mentioned before that my second book 469 00:25:13,520 --> 00:25:16,639 Speaker 1: was heavily inspired by the Analysis, and I didn't realize 470 00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:19,640 Speaker 1: that until after it was out. Um, because I loved 471 00:25:19,640 --> 00:25:22,280 Speaker 1: the anapsis as in Latin as a kid. We we 472 00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:25,359 Speaker 1: talked about a lot, and the teacher was given us 473 00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:28,359 Speaker 1: translations and stuff to read. And then I remember in 474 00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:31,200 Speaker 1: college being obsessed with it and loving it and wanting 475 00:25:31,240 --> 00:25:34,000 Speaker 1: to do something interesting with it. And then several years 476 00:25:34,040 --> 00:25:37,320 Speaker 1: passed and I hadn't thought about it for a while, 477 00:25:37,520 --> 00:25:39,439 Speaker 1: and I had my first book out, and then the 478 00:25:39,480 --> 00:25:41,720 Speaker 1: second book I worked on and finished and put it out, 479 00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:44,199 Speaker 1: and looking back at it when I started to do 480 00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:46,600 Speaker 1: publicity for that book, I went, oh, my gosh, a 481 00:25:47,040 --> 00:25:49,920 Speaker 1: army in enemy territory trying to make their way home. 482 00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:54,439 Speaker 1: I wrote something that's like the Analysis without even realizing it. 483 00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:58,520 Speaker 1: And so like, I think that's part of being an author. 484 00:25:58,600 --> 00:26:02,720 Speaker 1: And you know, even that doesn't necessarily write historical fiction. Uh, 485 00:26:02,760 --> 00:26:05,119 Speaker 1: And somebody that loves history is that it's going to 486 00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:08,960 Speaker 1: leak into their a lot because you're getting inspired by 487 00:26:09,119 --> 00:26:13,199 Speaker 1: other stories, and those stories don't have to necessarily be fiction. 488 00:26:15,320 --> 00:26:17,160 Speaker 1: My next question is actually for you, and it's along 489 00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:20,040 Speaker 1: those same lines. You've talked a couple of times about 490 00:26:20,080 --> 00:26:22,600 Speaker 1: how you don't really write historical fiction, it's more of 491 00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:26,200 Speaker 1: a historically inspired fantasy. Where do you feel like that 492 00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:31,400 Speaker 1: line is in your process? Um? The line, I mean, 493 00:26:31,920 --> 00:26:37,200 Speaker 1: I try not to steal directly because you know some 494 00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:42,600 Speaker 1: people might notice. But so I, like I said, I 495 00:26:42,640 --> 00:26:45,040 Speaker 1: have a terrible memory, So I'm forgetting the guy's book, 496 00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:47,479 Speaker 1: the name of the book or the name of the author. 497 00:26:48,040 --> 00:26:50,960 Speaker 1: But I read this amazing book. It was like something like, uh, 498 00:26:50,960 --> 00:26:53,119 Speaker 1: five Ways We Got to Now or something like that. 499 00:26:53,160 --> 00:26:55,600 Speaker 1: It was John Jon Stewart a few years ago, and 500 00:26:55,600 --> 00:26:57,439 Speaker 1: that's where I got it from. But one of the 501 00:26:57,480 --> 00:26:59,680 Speaker 1: things he talked about was cold the concept of cold 502 00:26:59,760 --> 00:27:02,680 Speaker 1: history work le Um, and he talked about this character 503 00:27:02,880 --> 00:27:06,040 Speaker 1: of this guy as this real person who basically brought 504 00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:11,000 Speaker 1: ice to North America UH and started selling ice UH 505 00:27:11,119 --> 00:27:13,960 Speaker 1: for the first time, and that became a big revolutionary thing. 506 00:27:14,560 --> 00:27:17,560 Speaker 1: And my next book has a character who is the 507 00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:21,320 Speaker 1: ice barred? And I stole that one directly. You know, 508 00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:24,280 Speaker 1: the character is completely different than the real historical person, 509 00:27:24,760 --> 00:27:28,080 Speaker 1: but the way they got to pa like their their 510 00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:30,960 Speaker 1: wealth and and the way things interact in that world 511 00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:34,240 Speaker 1: is extremely similar. Um. And I felt like I could 512 00:27:34,280 --> 00:27:39,159 Speaker 1: take that one because it was quite obscure but interesting 513 00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:41,320 Speaker 1: and kind of cool and and has that you know, 514 00:27:41,359 --> 00:27:49,040 Speaker 1: that realism to it because it's real. Hey, We're going 515 00:27:49,119 --> 00:27:51,840 Speaker 1: to include a couple of the questions from our audience 516 00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:55,400 Speaker 1: at the panel. We don't always include audience questions because 517 00:27:55,400 --> 00:27:57,080 Speaker 1: we like to keep some things in our lives show 518 00:27:57,160 --> 00:27:59,119 Speaker 1: sort of special for the people that attend there, but 519 00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:01,240 Speaker 1: we will include a well, because there were some interesting 520 00:28:01,320 --> 00:28:04,439 Speaker 1: questions asked and some interesting answers given. But before we 521 00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:06,560 Speaker 1: get to those, what do you say, Tracy that we 522 00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:08,600 Speaker 1: pause for a quick moment and have a word from 523 00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:17,480 Speaker 1: one of our great sponsors, Okay, al Rady. I felt 524 00:28:17,480 --> 00:28:21,479 Speaker 1: like we couldn't talk about a historical fiction without bringing 525 00:28:21,560 --> 00:28:26,119 Speaker 1: up the musical Hamilton's and I just sort of, I 526 00:28:26,119 --> 00:28:28,440 Speaker 1: don't know, I've I've sort of gone into the historical 527 00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:32,200 Speaker 1: and and there's there's stuff it's inaccurate, and um, about it, 528 00:28:32,240 --> 00:28:35,040 Speaker 1: but UM, I don't know. It's like it plays with 529 00:28:35,119 --> 00:28:39,320 Speaker 1: time and mixes the timeline around a bit, But UM 530 00:28:39,560 --> 00:28:41,520 Speaker 1: like to to sort of move the story forward and 531 00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:45,320 Speaker 1: to have a better flow of the story. So I 532 00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:47,240 Speaker 1: don't know really what I'm asking, just sort of what 533 00:28:47,280 --> 00:28:50,880 Speaker 1: are your thoughts. I had on a Hamilton's shirt earlier today. 534 00:28:51,280 --> 00:28:55,640 Speaker 1: She did It was the one from where Lemonwell Randa 535 00:28:55,720 --> 00:28:58,160 Speaker 1: was raising money and if you gave some money, maybe 536 00:28:58,160 --> 00:29:00,440 Speaker 1: you would win tickets to his last performance, which I 537 00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:06,880 Speaker 1: did not. Um who on the panel likes Hamilton's I 538 00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:09,800 Speaker 1: haven't been exposed much to it. You know. This is 539 00:29:09,840 --> 00:29:13,240 Speaker 1: where I make that blanket statement that gets booed. I'm 540 00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:16,680 Speaker 1: not a big fan of musical. Does it like singing? 541 00:29:17,280 --> 00:29:21,760 Speaker 1: I don't. It's not that I don't like music, It's 542 00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:25,920 Speaker 1: that I don't like watching people sing because you can 543 00:29:25,960 --> 00:29:30,320 Speaker 1: see inside their mouths and it's iggy, and when they emote, 544 00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:33,840 Speaker 1: they tend to make faces that are private time faces, 545 00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:37,680 Speaker 1: and I'm not comfortable with it at all. So I 546 00:29:37,760 --> 00:29:44,480 Speaker 1: have not partaken of the Hamilton's juice yet. I was 547 00:29:44,520 --> 00:29:46,480 Speaker 1: gonna say, I think what you see with with Hamilton's 548 00:29:46,480 --> 00:29:49,920 Speaker 1: and any any historical fiction is uh. Alfred Hchcox said 549 00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:52,880 Speaker 1: that fiction is life with the doulbits cut out. And 550 00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:56,760 Speaker 1: so every choice that someone is making when they're adapting 551 00:29:57,120 --> 00:30:01,520 Speaker 1: history into a fictional story, they're making those sacrifices and 552 00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:04,320 Speaker 1: changes to tell a better story, to get you too, 553 00:30:05,280 --> 00:30:07,400 Speaker 1: as a storyteller, to try to get you to emote 554 00:30:07,480 --> 00:30:10,200 Speaker 1: or feel for things, or have empathy this way, or 555 00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:13,040 Speaker 1: make you think about things in this way. And so 556 00:30:13,440 --> 00:30:16,680 Speaker 1: history isn't like that. History is much more objective depending 557 00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:20,640 Speaker 1: on the source, and historical fiction isn't that. So, so 558 00:30:20,720 --> 00:30:23,920 Speaker 1: I think that's where it's great that we have stuff 559 00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:26,640 Speaker 1: like Hamilton's. Hopefully it takes people the next step to 560 00:30:26,680 --> 00:30:30,480 Speaker 1: actually learn, like, well, what did they what did they ignore? 561 00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:33,440 Speaker 1: What did what didn't fit into that story? What didn't 562 00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:38,800 Speaker 1: fit into that narrative? Yeah, the the the entertainment or 563 00:30:38,840 --> 00:30:41,640 Speaker 1: wow factor, Uh is a balance that I think all 564 00:30:41,720 --> 00:30:45,600 Speaker 1: writers are trying to reach because you're, yeah, you Sometimes 565 00:30:45,640 --> 00:30:48,000 Speaker 1: you look at something you say, I need to fudge this, 566 00:30:48,600 --> 00:30:52,840 Speaker 1: but it's gonna be so cool that nobody cares. Uh. 567 00:30:52,920 --> 00:30:54,880 Speaker 1: So sometimes you can make things better by doing that, 568 00:30:55,080 --> 00:30:56,680 Speaker 1: and sometimes you have to go to the obs direction. 569 00:30:56,880 --> 00:31:01,320 Speaker 1: Sometimes you say, uh, you know what, this could be cool, 570 00:31:02,040 --> 00:31:03,440 Speaker 1: but I'm not gonna be able to pull it off 571 00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:06,080 Speaker 1: in a way that makes it satisfying. Uh. And you know, 572 00:31:06,080 --> 00:31:11,480 Speaker 1: obviously something like Hamilton's fudging works, and I think, um, 573 00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:13,880 Speaker 1: it's I think it's good to remember anytime you're looking 574 00:31:13,880 --> 00:31:18,040 Speaker 1: at any kind of history, including your great, big published 575 00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:21,560 Speaker 1: history textbooks and things like that, someone is telling you 576 00:31:21,640 --> 00:31:24,440 Speaker 1: a story. Someone is selling you a story. They want 577 00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:27,720 Speaker 1: you to to believe that history was the way they 578 00:31:27,760 --> 00:31:31,240 Speaker 1: said it was. And it's it's a little almost creepy 579 00:31:31,280 --> 00:31:34,000 Speaker 1: to think about that, like, because it's history had happened, right, 580 00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:36,840 Speaker 1: it's just the stuff that happened, But it's always being 581 00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:38,840 Speaker 1: told as a story, and it's always being retold. And 582 00:31:38,880 --> 00:31:43,160 Speaker 1: that's why historians have jobs, is because we're retelling history 583 00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:45,560 Speaker 1: over and over again and understand. And sometimes it's things 584 00:31:45,560 --> 00:31:48,400 Speaker 1: like uncovering the Jews and Muslims who lived in medieval 585 00:31:48,400 --> 00:31:52,120 Speaker 1: Wales and nobody's written about them before. And sometimes it's 586 00:31:52,160 --> 00:31:55,320 Speaker 1: just just new takes on things. It's new information, but 587 00:31:55,400 --> 00:31:58,160 Speaker 1: someone's always twitted. Someone's always telling you that story, and 588 00:31:58,200 --> 00:32:01,080 Speaker 1: their own biases are in a historians as biased, if 589 00:32:01,120 --> 00:32:04,200 Speaker 1: not more so, than anybody then as everybody else is. 590 00:32:04,760 --> 00:32:07,600 Speaker 1: And so I mean, yeah, you look at something like Hamilton's, 591 00:32:07,640 --> 00:32:09,800 Speaker 1: people go in there, I think knowing that it's not 592 00:32:09,960 --> 00:32:13,920 Speaker 1: a accurate I mean, we don't even know if Alexander 593 00:32:13,920 --> 00:32:20,200 Speaker 1: Hamilton's had a great singing voice. So so there's an understanding. 594 00:32:20,280 --> 00:32:22,760 Speaker 1: I think when you go into fiction and there's you know, 595 00:32:22,840 --> 00:32:25,320 Speaker 1: different levels of fiction. If it's a musical, we're gonna 596 00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:27,960 Speaker 1: expect things to be condensed and change. If you're reading 597 00:32:28,040 --> 00:32:30,160 Speaker 1: historical fiction, maybe we expect it to be a little 598 00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:33,720 Speaker 1: more accurate, but there's still that fiction aspect. And even 599 00:32:33,760 --> 00:32:37,440 Speaker 1: when you're reading like academic history, it's it's still has 600 00:32:38,200 --> 00:32:40,520 Speaker 1: its own biases and it's still a story. They're still 601 00:32:40,560 --> 00:32:45,800 Speaker 1: telling you a story. I love Hamilton's. People started writing 602 00:32:45,800 --> 00:32:49,200 Speaker 1: to us about Hamilton's really before it became a really 603 00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:53,960 Speaker 1: well known thing, like definitely before the cast album came out, 604 00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:56,120 Speaker 1: and before it just every time he turned around on 605 00:32:56,120 --> 00:32:59,000 Speaker 1: the internet, Hamilton's was in front of you. Uh, And 606 00:32:59,080 --> 00:33:01,560 Speaker 1: I was like sure, it's I'm sure it's fine. And 607 00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:05,720 Speaker 1: then when I finally listened to it, I got super excited. Um. 608 00:33:05,840 --> 00:33:08,800 Speaker 1: And there has been some discussion about it being used 609 00:33:08,800 --> 00:33:11,200 Speaker 1: in classrooms which I think is a really cool idea 610 00:33:11,440 --> 00:33:15,320 Speaker 1: because some of the history that it goes over can 611 00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:19,000 Speaker 1: frankly seem really dry, like the whole thing about assuming 612 00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:23,080 Speaker 1: state's debts. Who is really fascinating by that? Um? But 613 00:33:23,120 --> 00:33:26,800 Speaker 1: then I also think it's a really good opportunity to 614 00:33:26,840 --> 00:33:29,400 Speaker 1: talk about us some of the social issues that were 615 00:33:29,400 --> 00:33:31,560 Speaker 1: present at the time. Like there's a whole song about 616 00:33:31,560 --> 00:33:33,400 Speaker 1: how there was no one else in the room when 617 00:33:33,440 --> 00:33:37,440 Speaker 1: it happened. That was Thomas Jefferson's room. I'm pretty sure 618 00:33:37,640 --> 00:33:40,720 Speaker 1: that there were enslaved people serving that dinner, and so 619 00:33:40,920 --> 00:33:44,360 Speaker 1: like there's simultaneously the thought process of the folks who 620 00:33:44,560 --> 00:33:46,520 Speaker 1: hear that song for the first time and don't think 621 00:33:46,520 --> 00:33:49,280 Speaker 1: of that, and the people who really were in that room, 622 00:33:49,280 --> 00:33:53,040 Speaker 1: and we're just having unguarded conversations around human beings that 623 00:33:53,040 --> 00:33:55,680 Speaker 1: they sort of forgot were there, who were actually serving dinner, 624 00:33:55,720 --> 00:33:58,840 Speaker 1: which I think is a really amazing opportunity to like 625 00:33:58,960 --> 00:34:01,360 Speaker 1: explore things like that, So not just so much to 626 00:34:01,400 --> 00:34:07,080 Speaker 1: get the facts of cabinet rap battles, but to talk 627 00:34:07,080 --> 00:34:09,879 Speaker 1: about all of these other more nuanced things that kind 628 00:34:09,920 --> 00:34:13,160 Speaker 1: of rise up. That didn't mean to make that fun, 629 00:34:14,040 --> 00:34:16,920 Speaker 1: that was an accident, but you know what I'm saying. 630 00:34:18,040 --> 00:34:20,120 Speaker 1: I mean, I'm just excited that it gets people excited 631 00:34:20,120 --> 00:34:22,440 Speaker 1: about history. So even if I'm not into it, that 632 00:34:22,560 --> 00:34:26,480 Speaker 1: that means nothing. I love how passionate people are now 633 00:34:26,520 --> 00:34:35,200 Speaker 1: about wanting to learn more. So that's the magic. Once again, 634 00:34:35,280 --> 00:34:37,480 Speaker 1: I want to say a huge thank you to Brian Young, 635 00:34:37,600 --> 00:34:40,120 Speaker 1: Eb Wheeler, and Brian McClellan for being part of our 636 00:34:40,160 --> 00:34:42,920 Speaker 1: Salt Lake Comic com panel. You can reach Brian Young 637 00:34:42,960 --> 00:34:47,520 Speaker 1: on Twitter at Swank Motron, Ebie Wheeler at eb Underscore Wheeler, 638 00:34:47,920 --> 00:34:51,960 Speaker 1: and Brian McClellan at Brian T. McClellan. We will also 639 00:34:52,040 --> 00:34:54,600 Speaker 1: include links to all of the author's websites and our 640 00:34:54,640 --> 00:34:57,440 Speaker 1: show notes which will be on our website, and we 641 00:34:57,560 --> 00:35:00,960 Speaker 1: encourage you to go investiget their work. There's just a 642 00:35:01,040 --> 00:35:05,280 Speaker 1: breath uh in their types and styles that they're writing about. 643 00:35:05,360 --> 00:35:09,800 Speaker 1: You know, We've got everything from historically inspired fantasy to 644 00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:15,400 Speaker 1: straight up historical novels, so lots of things that choose from. Yeah, 645 00:35:15,560 --> 00:35:18,439 Speaker 1: and again, also thanks to Salti Comic Con for having 646 00:35:18,520 --> 00:35:21,080 Speaker 1: us into Ryan Call for helping us put together that 647 00:35:21,080 --> 00:35:25,319 Speaker 1: pretty great panel of people. I absolutely love the people 648 00:35:25,360 --> 00:35:28,200 Speaker 1: that run Salti Comic Con. They do an amazing job 649 00:35:28,320 --> 00:35:30,600 Speaker 1: and they make our jobs easier while we're there. So 650 00:35:30,719 --> 00:35:36,440 Speaker 1: thank you, thank you, thank you. I have some listener mail. Okay, 651 00:35:36,600 --> 00:35:38,759 Speaker 1: since we've been traveling so much, we're getting a little 652 00:35:38,760 --> 00:35:42,040 Speaker 1: bit of a postcard pile up, so so I'm gonna 653 00:35:42,080 --> 00:35:44,399 Speaker 1: try to move through at least some postcards that we get. 654 00:35:44,440 --> 00:35:47,400 Speaker 1: We can never feature them all, unfortunately, but today I 655 00:35:47,440 --> 00:35:50,520 Speaker 1: have three to touch on briefly. I won't read them all, 656 00:35:50,560 --> 00:35:53,040 Speaker 1: but I will talk about them a little. One is 657 00:35:53,160 --> 00:35:57,160 Speaker 1: from our listener Brenna, and she sent us a postcard 658 00:35:57,200 --> 00:36:00,520 Speaker 1: from the Winchester Mystery House, and it's really really lovely 659 00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:05,759 Speaker 1: because it's in this fun art style that looks almost like, um, 660 00:36:05,920 --> 00:36:08,840 Speaker 1: some of the postcards you can purchase at Disney of 661 00:36:08,920 --> 00:36:12,920 Speaker 1: some of their attractions, so it's sort of fantastic. Uh. 662 00:36:12,960 --> 00:36:16,200 Speaker 1: The next one is from our listener John, and he says, 663 00:36:16,239 --> 00:36:18,279 Speaker 1: high ladies, I love your podcast. My family and I 664 00:36:18,320 --> 00:36:21,920 Speaker 1: were touring this museum during a Labor Day weekend anniversary getaway. 665 00:36:22,360 --> 00:36:25,880 Speaker 1: The guide mentioned how signs reflected changing times and culture, 666 00:36:25,920 --> 00:36:28,640 Speaker 1: and I thought of YouTube. They specifically cited how the 667 00:36:28,680 --> 00:36:31,319 Speaker 1: Big Boy had changed through time. Keep up the great work. 668 00:36:31,400 --> 00:36:34,200 Speaker 1: They went to the American Sign Museum in Cincinnati, and 669 00:36:34,400 --> 00:36:37,600 Speaker 1: this postcard is a lovely image of the big Boy 670 00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:40,880 Speaker 1: holding his giant Hamburger and I kind of love signs 671 00:36:40,920 --> 00:36:43,160 Speaker 1: like I love that aspect of Americana. So thank you, 672 00:36:43,200 --> 00:36:46,640 Speaker 1: thank you, thank you. John. Our third and final postcard 673 00:36:46,640 --> 00:36:49,560 Speaker 1: for today is from our listener and it says, Hi, 674 00:36:49,640 --> 00:36:51,520 Speaker 1: Holly and Tracy, I just wanted to write and thank 675 00:36:51,520 --> 00:36:53,200 Speaker 1: you for all the work you do making such a 676 00:36:53,200 --> 00:36:56,759 Speaker 1: great podcast. Although the podcast has had different hosts, UH 677 00:36:56,800 --> 00:36:59,760 Speaker 1: and had different hosts then the Easter Island Update episode 678 00:36:59,760 --> 00:37:02,360 Speaker 1: is what sparked my interest in visiting here after my 679 00:37:02,400 --> 00:37:05,560 Speaker 1: summer research job ended in Chile. Keep up the good work, 680 00:37:05,640 --> 00:37:09,200 Speaker 1: so and sent us a beautiful large size postcard UH 681 00:37:09,280 --> 00:37:12,960 Speaker 1: from Eastern Island, featuring the famous sculptures that you will 682 00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:15,520 Speaker 1: often see there. It's a really lovely photograph as well. 683 00:37:15,880 --> 00:37:19,040 Speaker 1: So thank you, thank you, Thank you to uh Anne 684 00:37:19,440 --> 00:37:21,920 Speaker 1: and Brenna and John for sharing those with us and 685 00:37:21,960 --> 00:37:25,000 Speaker 1: taking time out of their travels to write us postcards. 686 00:37:25,640 --> 00:37:28,560 Speaker 1: Always say that I love it because it's always true. UH. 687 00:37:28,640 --> 00:37:30,480 Speaker 1: If you would like to write to us, you can 688 00:37:30,520 --> 00:37:33,680 Speaker 1: email us at History Podcast at how Stuff works dot com. 689 00:37:33,719 --> 00:37:36,320 Speaker 1: You can also find us pretty much across social media 690 00:37:36,800 --> 00:37:40,120 Speaker 1: as missed in History. So that's on Twitter at Misston History, 691 00:37:40,120 --> 00:37:42,600 Speaker 1: at Facebook dot com, slash mist in History on pinterest 692 00:37:42,640 --> 00:37:45,640 Speaker 1: dot com, slash misston History on Instagram, as at misst 693 00:37:45,640 --> 00:37:49,319 Speaker 1: in history. We're everywhere as miss in History. If you 694 00:37:49,320 --> 00:37:52,359 Speaker 1: would like to come to our website and visit us, 695 00:37:52,400 --> 00:37:55,359 Speaker 1: you can do that. That is missed in history dot com. 696 00:37:55,400 --> 00:37:57,680 Speaker 1: There's a mist in History theme you may have noticed, 697 00:37:58,120 --> 00:38:01,680 Speaker 1: and there you will find uh show notes for every 698 00:38:01,719 --> 00:38:03,960 Speaker 1: episode that Tracy and I have worked out together, as 699 00:38:04,000 --> 00:38:06,840 Speaker 1: well as an archive of all of the episodes that 700 00:38:06,880 --> 00:38:09,600 Speaker 1: have ever existed of the show. You can also occasionally 701 00:38:09,640 --> 00:38:12,279 Speaker 1: find blog posts and other goodies. You can also visit 702 00:38:12,280 --> 00:38:14,520 Speaker 1: our parents site, which is how stuff works dot com 703 00:38:14,600 --> 00:38:17,239 Speaker 1: and type something into the search bar and you're gonna 704 00:38:17,280 --> 00:38:22,279 Speaker 1: get back some really interesting uh the responses results. Thank you, 705 00:38:22,360 --> 00:38:24,640 Speaker 1: and you're gonna get back some really interesting results that 706 00:38:24,680 --> 00:38:26,600 Speaker 1: you can pass through and learn new things. So we 707 00:38:26,680 --> 00:38:29,600 Speaker 1: encourage you to visit us online at misston History dot 708 00:38:29,680 --> 00:38:36,440 Speaker 1: com and how stuff works dot com for more on 709 00:38:36,520 --> 00:38:38,960 Speaker 1: this and thousands of other topics. Because it has stuff 710 00:38:39,000 --> 00:38:51,800 Speaker 1: works dot com