WEBVTT - The Green Hell: Migration Through the Darién Gap

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<v Speaker 1>The media.

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<v Speaker 2>The most difficult part of the journey is when you

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<v Speaker 2>are treking and you meet dead bodies on the road.

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<v Speaker 2>It makes you weep, it makes you cry, but there's

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<v Speaker 2>only one focus in the forest ahead. You have to

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<v Speaker 2>keep going. You'll see mother's children. They are crying just

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<v Speaker 2>to have a sip of water. It is not easy.

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<v Speaker 1>A few weeks ago, I found myself sitting beside the

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<v Speaker 1>Tuquesa River on a warm afternoon in late September, making

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<v Speaker 1>bill faces at a two months old baby as we

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<v Speaker 1>both marveled at the cloud yellow butterflies. Anywhere else on earth,

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<v Speaker 1>it could be in a dyllic summer day, But in

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<v Speaker 1>these final steps, as a journey across the daddy and Gap,

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<v Speaker 1>it's hard to open up your mind to experience joy.

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<v Speaker 1>I'd only been in the tiny Emberra village of Baho

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<v Speaker 1>Jigito a couple of days, and I had already seen

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<v Speaker 1>the lifeless body of a little girl, as though the

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<v Speaker 1>migrants carried her into town. The river I was sleeping

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<v Speaker 1>around him, with this group of migrants resting here in

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<v Speaker 1>the shade, had swept sleeping children to their deaths earlier

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<v Speaker 1>this year. An upstream of me, there were at least

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<v Speaker 1>three people's remains here. It was shin deep, but crossing

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<v Speaker 1>upstream where it's above head height and rages down out

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<v Speaker 1>of the mountains in steep ravines. Was the migrants I

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<v Speaker 1>walked back to town with told me the stuff of nightmares.

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<v Speaker 1>The voice you just heard was a migrant from Cameroon

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<v Speaker 1>who called himself James. That's not his real name, and

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<v Speaker 1>astute listeners will have noticed that it is my real name,

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<v Speaker 1>but for the protection of James and his family, it's

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<v Speaker 1>a name be using when I met James. We're in

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<v Speaker 1>a migrant reception center called Las Blancas, to the north

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<v Speaker 1>of the Darien Gap. To get there, one has to

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<v Speaker 1>take a dugout canoe called a piragua from Bajo Jaquito.

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<v Speaker 1>The voyage takes five hours, and for that five hours,

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<v Speaker 1>migrants are packed fifteen to a boat wearing bright orange

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<v Speaker 1>life jackets. They share the boat with nembra piraguero who

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<v Speaker 1>sit at the back driving the boat with a two

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<v Speaker 1>stroke motor, and a guide who sits on the front,

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<v Speaker 1>using a pole when necessary to push the boat through

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<v Speaker 1>shallow sections. The Umbra people are indigenous to the area

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<v Speaker 1>that's commonly known as the Daliang Gap, or at least

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<v Speaker 1>to this part of it and the tiny Embrea village

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<v Speaker 1>of Bajo Jaquito. It's a first settlement migrants encounter is

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<v Speaker 1>they emerge from the perilous crossing of the jungle that

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<v Speaker 1>divides Central America from South America and thousands of people

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<v Speaker 1>from a better future. There's a morale patch that the

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<v Speaker 1>Panamanian Border Patrol and military were on their uniforms There

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<v Speaker 1>reflects a slogan in a government messaging campaign darien asuna Jungla.

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<v Speaker 1>It says. The campaign was launched in August, and it

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<v Speaker 1>translates to the darinessn't a route or maybe a roads

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<v Speaker 1>a better translation, it's a jungle. Obviously it's actually both,

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<v Speaker 1>but this is like no route. Most of us will

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<v Speaker 1>be familiar with. The dark and foreboding jungle I saw

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<v Speaker 1>in Bahajigito is one of the most impenetrable on Earth,

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<v Speaker 1>and the crossing of it is among the most dangerous

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<v Speaker 1>land migration routes. In the nineteen seventies, the British Army

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<v Speaker 1>sent its most experienced explorers to find a way through

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<v Speaker 1>the gap. Their commander called the gap a god forsaken place.

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<v Speaker 1>Today migrants have their own names for it, Dete or

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<v Speaker 1>sometimes the Green Hell. Here's a group from Cameroon explaining

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<v Speaker 1>why they didn't see a future there and they decided

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<v Speaker 1>to take this dangerous route.

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<v Speaker 3>We are coming from Cameroon. I'm my name is Flowers.

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<v Speaker 3>There's a lot of crisis in our country. The civil

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<v Speaker 3>war going on in Cameroon right now because of our president.

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<v Speaker 3>President Pombia has been in part over forty two years.

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<v Speaker 3>So I was the anglophone. We started revolting for him

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<v Speaker 3>to step down because he doesn't develop the Southern American Sorry,

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<v Speaker 3>the English section of Cameroon anglerphone. Yeah, the anglophone sections

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<v Speaker 3>revolt ins that you was selling the military and it's

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<v Speaker 3>killing the citizens of our country. There's a lot of hardship,

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<v Speaker 3>a lot of that. Eye for one, I've lost everybody,

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<v Speaker 3>a lot of my family, my mom, my dad, my

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<v Speaker 3>two brothers, and I'm the only one left so things

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<v Speaker 3>and there is no job. I've completed school, but there's

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<v Speaker 3>nothing for me to do. So that's why it decided to.

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<v Speaker 1>Mygrae to get to Baho Jikito from Columbia. It's James

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<v Speaker 1>and other migrants did. There's no road you can take.

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<v Speaker 1>You can't even take a boat or a train. Instead,

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<v Speaker 1>you have to walk the Darying Gap, an area of

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<v Speaker 1>rainforested mountains, so it's one of the most dangerous migration

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<v Speaker 1>routes in the world. For anywhere between two and fifteen days,

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<v Speaker 1>migrants trek through waste time mud rivers deeper than they

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<v Speaker 1>are at all. They must im giant boulders, cross perilous ravines,

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<v Speaker 1>and traverse sheer cliff faces, all of this with barely

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<v Speaker 1>any water than what they can carry, little to no food,

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<v Speaker 1>inadequate clothing, a terrible footwear, and no medical attention. They

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<v Speaker 1>must walk past dead bodies and past people who might

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<v Speaker 1>soon become dead bodies as they beg for help. They

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<v Speaker 1>carry their children, their dreams, and sometimes each other across

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<v Speaker 1>mountains and rivers, and in bau Jiquito they take what,

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<v Speaker 1>for many of them will be the final steps of

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<v Speaker 1>this part of their journey. It's a journey that few

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<v Speaker 1>of us can imagine, and they were lucky to be

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<v Speaker 1>able to avoid. My own migration to the US sixteen

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<v Speaker 1>years ago was much simpler and safer, But for migrants

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<v Speaker 1>like James, the journey's worth it because what they're leaving

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<v Speaker 1>behind is worse. Here's James describing the situation in the

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<v Speaker 1>state of Cameroon.

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<v Speaker 4>The situation in Cameroon is.

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<v Speaker 2>How can I pity, Very very, very very difficult, especially

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<v Speaker 2>in the Anglophone part of the country. Yeah, because for

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<v Speaker 2>about five to six years there's a world ongoing war

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<v Speaker 2>in the anglophone.

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<v Speaker 4>Crisis we are.

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<v Speaker 2>So they have been there has been fighting, has been shooting, killings.

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<v Speaker 2>I myself speaking to you, Yeah, I've been targeted. My

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<v Speaker 2>cousin was shot and with his husband were shot together.

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<v Speaker 4>Both of them.

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<v Speaker 2>Were nursis and they were shot by the army that

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<v Speaker 2>were there to protect the people. So the situation back

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<v Speaker 2>at home, it's very very tense, Yeah, very very tense.

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<v Speaker 2>When you see most of Camaronians traveling taking the Rigspath

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<v Speaker 2>from Columbia Brazy right up to where I am.

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<v Speaker 4>It is not because they like it. It's because of

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<v Speaker 4>the situation back at.

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<v Speaker 2>Home and most of it, and most of the time

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<v Speaker 2>it is the anglophone population that is suffering.

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<v Speaker 4>Most of them. They choose this part because they will

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<v Speaker 4>not have a direct result to America.

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<v Speaker 1>It's very hard to get one way.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, it's very very difficult. So they have to use

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<v Speaker 2>the hard way, which is the only way.

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<v Speaker 1>The truth is dead bodies, terrible stories, and families celebrating

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<v Speaker 1>the end of their work. It's nothing out of the ordinary.

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<v Speaker 1>And Babu Jikito, the Enbarra town, with the population of

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<v Speaker 1>just five hundred and ninety, it's a place I've been

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<v Speaker 1>trying to come to for almost as long as I've

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<v Speaker 1>been writing about migration. There are a few stories in

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<v Speaker 1>my time as a journalist that I've been pitching for

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<v Speaker 1>close to a decade. Most of the time I give

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<v Speaker 1>up if there are no bites after a few months.

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<v Speaker 1>And that's why you won't see me right about the

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<v Speaker 1>people who tried to hire mercenaries to intimidate voters in

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<v Speaker 1>twenty twenty, or the Burmese rebels who if I did

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<v Speaker 1>their revolution with co op produced tea or a surfing

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<v Speaker 1>team in the Gaza strip, And on reflection, you probably

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<v Speaker 1>won't hear about that last one anywhere. Now. The media

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<v Speaker 1>cycle has a way of coming around to these stories eventually, sure,

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<v Speaker 1>but I not really want to go back to what

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<v Speaker 1>it is who didn't give a shit about people before

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<v Speaker 1>and only care about their stories now because they get

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<v Speaker 1>more traffic. But there's one story I've never given up on.

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<v Speaker 1>That's the story of a daddy en gap and the

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<v Speaker 1>people who risk their lives crossing it for a shot

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<v Speaker 1>at the American dream. And at this point I do

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<v Speaker 1>want to ignolize. I'm incredibly grateful to the people I

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<v Speaker 1>work with for trusting me when I asked them to

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<v Speaker 1>pay for me to disappear in a dugout canoe into

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<v Speaker 1>the jungle and come back two weeks later with a story.

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<v Speaker 1>The daddy and looms in the stories of migrants I

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<v Speaker 1>meet in the US border as a sort of heart

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<v Speaker 1>of darkness on what is a very difficult and dangerous journey.

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<v Speaker 1>It's worse than the freight trains they hop on in Mexico,

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<v Speaker 1>worse in the crowded worse even than the months of

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<v Speaker 1>waiting for an asylum appointment. I firly believe that you

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<v Speaker 1>can't really understand and write about things you haven't seen, smelt,

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<v Speaker 1>and heard. So for years I've been asking theeed it

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<v Speaker 1>is to send me to the tiny and but our

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<v Speaker 1>community on the banks of the river, so that I

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<v Speaker 1>could share the final steps of this horrific journey with

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<v Speaker 1>the people who see little option but to risk their

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<v Speaker 1>lives for a better future for their children. Because the

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<v Speaker 1>US refuses to create more legal pathways, people instead take

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<v Speaker 1>a sudden pathway straight up and down the mountains to

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<v Speaker 1>the Darian rainforest. The journey will take them past the

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<v Speaker 1>corpse into people who never left. The terrain is too

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<v Speaker 1>fierce for anyone to carry their remains out, so they

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<v Speaker 1>must simply rut there as a reminder to migrants, so

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<v Speaker 1>they must keep going. It's a sort of deterrent through

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<v Speaker 1>death that has been the unofficial and official US border

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<v Speaker 1>policy for decades. To turn or not. Once you're in

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<v Speaker 1>the Darien, there's no turning back, and the lack of

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<v Speaker 1>escape routes has made the gap popular among criminals who

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<v Speaker 1>commit untold numbers of sexual assaults, murders, and armed robberies

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<v Speaker 1>every year in the jungle. Despite this, more than half

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<v Speaker 1>a million migrants made the perilous journey last year, and

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<v Speaker 1>it's many, if not more, will do so this year.

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<v Speaker 1>Do you understand the Daddy and you have to first

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<v Speaker 1>understand US immigration policy, which is something I talk about

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<v Speaker 1>a lot on this podcast. I want to include here

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<v Speaker 1>a clip from Amos, a migrant from North Africa who

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<v Speaker 1>met my friends and helped them build shelters in u

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<v Speaker 1>Cumba last year, explaining his journey to the United States.

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<v Speaker 5>So another route right now, which is a difficult route,

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<v Speaker 5>is through Brazil because Brazil has a I don't know

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<v Speaker 5>if you guys know, and I think they do that

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<v Speaker 5>for Americans too. Yeah, so Brazil has sort of I

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<v Speaker 5>don't know the word, but the equivalent to them is

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<v Speaker 5>if you impose of his own Brazil Brazilians were imposed

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<v Speaker 5>of his own news. They do that to Americans too, So.

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<v Speaker 1>You know where I'm from.

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<v Speaker 5>They don't have a visa to uh as far as

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<v Speaker 5>for Brazilians, so we don't. So a lot of Africans

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<v Speaker 5>can go to Brazil and from Brazil take the the

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<v Speaker 5>route all the way.

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<v Speaker 1>That game was James couldn't fly here directly that he

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<v Speaker 1>was able to get a little bit closer to the

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<v Speaker 1>US by flying to Columbia. I'll let him explain how

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<v Speaker 1>he pulled that off.

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<v Speaker 2>For me to have a pass to Colombia, it was

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<v Speaker 2>not easy, so we had we had to There was

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<v Speaker 2>a female female on that twenty World Cup that was

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<v Speaker 2>that was taking place in Colombia, so we had to

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<v Speaker 2>go to Columbia as football fans. That's why they had

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<v Speaker 2>they had to give us our visa is all right.

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<v Speaker 2>From Colombia, we'll find our way out of the airport to.

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<v Speaker 4>Where we are today.

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<v Speaker 1>Most continental America. We'll have to travel to Brazil, just

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<v Speaker 1>like Amos. Here's one ac Can. I'll let the speakers

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<v Speaker 1>introduce himselves.

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<v Speaker 6>My name is Tom, I m I'm from Idan.

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<v Speaker 1>My name is mohade for.

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<v Speaker 7>Omran, my name is Ali, and I'm from Idan.

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<v Speaker 1>They told me why they left Irun. But I'm sure

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<v Speaker 1>many di could wear that went out of yourself, so

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<v Speaker 1>we weren't included here. How did you come from Iran

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<v Speaker 1>to hear you got for Turkey?

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<v Speaker 7>It was so difficult, and we came from Iran, Tehran

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<v Speaker 7>to Dubai. After that, saub all of Brazil and after

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<v Speaker 7>that Believe Peru, Ejuador, Colombia and Nkokley and Jungle Panama

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<v Speaker 7>Here Panama. And it was so difficult for us because

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<v Speaker 7>we are young. We just leave our family, my sister,

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<v Speaker 7>my mother, father. It was so emotional, Yeah, and it

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<v Speaker 7>was so hard for us. But because of the freedom,

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<v Speaker 7>because we can't speak in our country. You know, if

0:13:03.400 --> 0:13:06.679
<v Speaker 7>you speaking in your in the street, something like it

0:13:07.320 --> 0:13:11.719
<v Speaker 7>they will arrest you. And yeah, Jai, when you are

0:13:11.840 --> 0:13:15.920
<v Speaker 7>not Muslim, when you really like something like a Christian

0:13:16.120 --> 0:13:20.839
<v Speaker 7>or something else, theres Yes, it was. It was so so,

0:13:21.360 --> 0:13:25.240
<v Speaker 7>so so difficult living in Iran, but it's a it's

0:13:25.280 --> 0:13:27.840
<v Speaker 7>a wonderful country, but not government.

0:13:28.720 --> 0:13:30.920
<v Speaker 1>When I talk to migrants, I always want to offer

0:13:30.960 --> 0:13:32.959
<v Speaker 1>them the chance to share their stories in ways that

0:13:33.080 --> 0:13:36.360
<v Speaker 1>they want to share them. And I asked them what

0:13:36.480 --> 0:13:38.640
<v Speaker 1>they would want to say if they could talk directly

0:13:38.720 --> 0:13:41.480
<v Speaker 1>to Americans. It's a question I asked a lot, because

0:13:41.520 --> 0:13:43.720
<v Speaker 1>in all the coverage of migration I've seen in this country,

0:13:44.120 --> 0:13:47.959
<v Speaker 1>I rarely see migrants' voices. I'm very familiar with being

0:13:47.960 --> 0:13:49.760
<v Speaker 1>the only journalist in a place, and I'd be lying

0:13:49.760 --> 0:13:51.959
<v Speaker 1>if I said I didn't prefer it that way. But

0:13:52.640 --> 0:13:54.880
<v Speaker 1>I do always feel obliged to use the platform I

0:13:54.960 --> 0:13:57.520
<v Speaker 1>have here to give people a chance to share their stories,

0:13:57.720 --> 0:14:00.840
<v Speaker 1>their voices, and their struggles. So he's their message.

0:14:01.640 --> 0:14:03.400
<v Speaker 7>We love you, hope too, you love this?

0:14:03.760 --> 0:14:05.400
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, that's hard question.

0:14:06.320 --> 0:14:09.920
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, Yeah, I think that's very good.

0:14:10.960 --> 0:14:14.199
<v Speaker 7>It will be our next home, and we should be

0:14:15.120 --> 0:14:17.360
<v Speaker 7>proud of that. We should be bored for that, we

0:14:17.440 --> 0:14:21.800
<v Speaker 7>should be real, real American for the concert.

0:14:22.200 --> 0:14:28.160
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, they know women are very bad situations, have a

0:14:28.320 --> 0:14:29.640
<v Speaker 6>bad situation in Iran.

0:14:29.960 --> 0:14:33.040
<v Speaker 8>Yeah, for all people, that is.

0:14:35.360 --> 0:14:39.600
<v Speaker 6>Saying, but for women is very, very, very hard. I

0:14:39.680 --> 0:14:46.320
<v Speaker 6>think American people know about masa Amini. Yeah, and they

0:14:46.920 --> 0:14:52.640
<v Speaker 6>really they chill us, really, they chill women for simple things.

0:14:54.400 --> 0:14:57.400
<v Speaker 1>I heard hundreds of stories like this in my time

0:14:57.480 --> 0:15:00.360
<v Speaker 1>about how Jiqito and the last blankat migrant reception center

0:15:00.480 --> 0:15:03.160
<v Speaker 1>that migrants traveled to after they arrive in Bajo Chiquito.

0:15:03.760 --> 0:15:07.720
<v Speaker 1>People left horrific things behind them and saw horrific things

0:15:07.800 --> 0:15:10.960
<v Speaker 1>on their journey, but they all remained hopeful for a

0:15:11.000 --> 0:15:21.600
<v Speaker 1>better future in America. These journeys, in some cases, can

0:15:21.680 --> 0:15:24.520
<v Speaker 1>take a year or more. One napoly man I met

0:15:24.560 --> 0:15:27.600
<v Speaker 1>in Bajajuquito had spent thirty months just to get that far,

0:15:28.480 --> 0:15:31.160
<v Speaker 1>and among his group, his journey had been the fastest.

0:15:32.840 --> 0:15:35.760
<v Speaker 1>As long as these journeys are, that darien often stems

0:15:35.760 --> 0:15:39.640
<v Speaker 1>out as the hardest part to understand. Why I want

0:15:39.680 --> 0:15:41.360
<v Speaker 1>to take you back to that shady spot by the

0:15:41.440 --> 0:15:45.080
<v Speaker 1>river just a few minutes south of Bajo Juquito. So

0:15:45.200 --> 0:15:47.480
<v Speaker 1>what I'm doing right now, as you can hear from

0:15:47.520 --> 0:15:49.480
<v Speaker 1>my footsteps, is I'm doing what it told me not

0:15:49.600 --> 0:15:52.680
<v Speaker 1>to do. I'm walking along the migrant trail. Lots of

0:15:52.760 --> 0:15:58.880
<v Speaker 1>like vines and creepers, and oh fucking hell, that's me

0:15:59.000 --> 0:16:03.440
<v Speaker 1>el eating shit. There's little bits of tape marking a trail.

0:16:03.840 --> 0:16:07.720
<v Speaker 1>I think they just come down the river here. Some

0:16:07.840 --> 0:16:10.080
<v Speaker 1>local guys are pushing out wheelbarrows on the trail to

0:16:10.160 --> 0:16:15.160
<v Speaker 1>dump trash. The's trash everywhere, to fucking mess the little

0:16:15.200 --> 0:16:17.760
<v Speaker 1>wood arrows that they've carved just outside town to direct

0:16:17.800 --> 0:16:21.000
<v Speaker 1>people into town. And if I heard, I can see

0:16:21.040 --> 0:16:24.680
<v Speaker 1>migrants making what's probably hopefully their final crossing of the

0:16:24.800 --> 0:16:28.160
<v Speaker 1>river here. One thing I noticed was that as soon

0:16:28.200 --> 0:16:29.680
<v Speaker 1>as I got out of sight in near shot of

0:16:29.720 --> 0:16:33.960
<v Speaker 1>the town, the jungle seems a lot more intimidating. Somebody

0:16:34.040 --> 0:16:35.680
<v Speaker 1>spends a lot of time in the mountains, and I

0:16:35.760 --> 0:16:38.920
<v Speaker 1>grew up playing in the woods. I'm comfortable outdoors, and

0:16:39.000 --> 0:16:41.120
<v Speaker 1>I frequently camp and hike for days on my own.

0:16:41.680 --> 0:16:44.080
<v Speaker 1>I like it better that way, and I might see

0:16:44.120 --> 0:16:46.520
<v Speaker 1>more comfortable forty feet under the seed free diving, or

0:16:46.640 --> 0:16:48.240
<v Speaker 1>three hours from the nearest road. Then I'm in a

0:16:48.280 --> 0:16:51.680
<v Speaker 1>busy city sometimes, but in the jungle. After all the

0:16:51.720 --> 0:16:56.840
<v Speaker 1>stories I'd heard that week. I was afraid. I get scary.

0:16:56.920 --> 0:17:01.000
<v Speaker 1>I don't know why. I mean, everything's new to me. I'm,

0:17:02.000 --> 0:17:07.760
<v Speaker 1>you know, relatively comfortable in the outdoors. But fucking there's

0:17:07.840 --> 0:17:10.480
<v Speaker 1>new animals, there's new plants. I don't know what's poisonous.

0:17:10.840 --> 0:17:12.440
<v Speaker 1>I don't know what's going to kill me. I don't

0:17:12.480 --> 0:17:15.280
<v Speaker 1>know who's going to try and hurt me. Got another

0:17:15.320 --> 0:17:18.679
<v Speaker 1>fucking RF Jesus wept. I'm jumping out my skin. Everything

0:17:18.760 --> 0:17:29.680
<v Speaker 1>Now it's funny. I'm in a place that's beautiful, you know,

0:17:29.840 --> 0:17:34.400
<v Speaker 1>like these better paradise plants are just just growing here, gorgeousness.

0:17:34.680 --> 0:17:39.680
<v Speaker 1>Horses belong to people of the Mbah community. I suppose

0:17:41.359 --> 0:17:46.439
<v Speaker 1>having snacks, you know, eating jungle horse food. And here

0:17:46.480 --> 0:17:49.240
<v Speaker 1>here I am at the river. It's wide here, it's

0:17:49.280 --> 0:17:51.840
<v Speaker 1>sort of shallow, and it's been dammed up a little

0:17:51.840 --> 0:17:53.960
<v Speaker 1>bit with rubbish, just like flocks and and jets some

0:17:54.080 --> 0:17:54.600
<v Speaker 1>kind of stuff.

0:17:55.280 --> 0:17:55.760
<v Speaker 7>And then.

0:17:57.440 --> 0:17:59.199
<v Speaker 1>This is where people cross because of that little dam.

0:17:59.240 --> 0:18:01.560
<v Speaker 1>But it's still got some to it, like you wouldn't

0:18:01.600 --> 0:18:04.399
<v Speaker 1>want to fall and crack your head or you know,

0:18:04.400 --> 0:18:08.040
<v Speaker 1>a lot of these folks can't swim even without the fear.

0:18:08.080 --> 0:18:11.080
<v Speaker 1>It's hard going. If you've only hiked on trails, you

0:18:11.160 --> 0:18:13.359
<v Speaker 1>probably don't realize how much work goes into making that

0:18:13.480 --> 0:18:16.879
<v Speaker 1>surface possible. There are no trail crews in the Darien,

0:18:17.440 --> 0:18:19.720
<v Speaker 1>and as a result, every step has the potential to

0:18:19.760 --> 0:18:22.560
<v Speaker 1>results in a sprained ankle or another injury, which might

0:18:22.680 --> 0:18:25.479
<v Speaker 1>sound trivial but can be faithal in such a remote

0:18:25.520 --> 0:18:30.160
<v Speaker 1>and challenging place. Trail is all rocks, like maybe rocks

0:18:30.200 --> 0:18:33.480
<v Speaker 1>the size of a fift like that way now, and

0:18:33.560 --> 0:18:36.040
<v Speaker 1>then there are sort of in this area we only

0:18:36.080 --> 0:18:38.880
<v Speaker 1>have the lower canopy, so we have ferns, we have reeds,

0:18:40.040 --> 0:18:42.359
<v Speaker 1>bamboo plants growing really tall and straight, that's what they

0:18:42.440 --> 0:18:44.600
<v Speaker 1>use for the poles that the pit our words, and

0:18:44.760 --> 0:18:49.159
<v Speaker 1>then sort of low grassy kind of plants. And then

0:18:49.200 --> 0:18:51.520
<v Speaker 1>where the migrants walk is just this muddy trail that

0:18:51.640 --> 0:18:54.240
<v Speaker 1>every time it raine just turns into like ankle to

0:18:54.359 --> 0:18:57.800
<v Speaker 1>knee deep mud. And I could see them making pretty

0:18:57.840 --> 0:19:01.159
<v Speaker 1>slow progress along the trail towards me. At the end

0:19:01.160 --> 0:19:03.080
<v Speaker 1>of the day, as I took a pedagua back to

0:19:03.160 --> 0:19:06.040
<v Speaker 1>Madagan Tea, where I would be staying the night, I

0:19:06.119 --> 0:19:09.399
<v Speaker 1>reflected again on this an incredible tenacity it took for

0:19:09.480 --> 0:19:12.520
<v Speaker 1>people with little outdoor experience and terrible equipment to pass

0:19:12.560 --> 0:19:15.600
<v Speaker 1>through the jungle. You know, I'm a fit person. I

0:19:15.680 --> 0:19:18.400
<v Speaker 1>run ultramarathons. It used to be exercised for a living.

0:19:18.480 --> 0:19:23.880
<v Speaker 1>And it's fucking hard. It's wet. Everything's wet all the time.

0:19:23.920 --> 0:19:29.159
<v Speaker 1>If you're wet from the rain, then you're wet. If

0:19:29.160 --> 0:19:30.879
<v Speaker 1>you're wet from the sweat and you're wet. If you

0:19:31.000 --> 0:19:33.240
<v Speaker 1>cross rivers, you get wet. You just can't stay dry.

0:19:34.119 --> 0:19:37.360
<v Speaker 1>And everyone's feet are just fucked when they get into town,

0:19:37.440 --> 0:19:41.240
<v Speaker 1>Like the size of the blisters I've seen, and like

0:19:41.400 --> 0:19:44.320
<v Speaker 1>one lady had a cramp today where like it just

0:19:44.440 --> 0:19:46.320
<v Speaker 1>locked up a whole that she like, I grabbed her.

0:19:46.480 --> 0:19:49.280
<v Speaker 1>She was falling down and I was able to hold

0:19:49.320 --> 0:19:53.159
<v Speaker 1>her up. But people are really pushing themselves physically as

0:19:53.240 --> 0:19:58.600
<v Speaker 1>well as psychologically. That river crossing south of Bachigiso was

0:19:58.640 --> 0:20:00.160
<v Speaker 1>as far south as I was going to be able

0:20:00.200 --> 0:20:02.320
<v Speaker 1>to get without being forced to be adjacted from Panama,

0:20:03.000 --> 0:20:05.280
<v Speaker 1>and my request to take a boat or walk further

0:20:05.400 --> 0:20:09.119
<v Speaker 1>south was denied by the Panamanian Ministry of Security. So

0:20:09.280 --> 0:20:11.160
<v Speaker 1>the only part of the migrants journey I would share

0:20:11.200 --> 0:20:13.359
<v Speaker 1>with them, with the last kilometer or so of their

0:20:13.440 --> 0:20:17.440
<v Speaker 1>walk even then, I wasn't really supposed to be leaving

0:20:17.480 --> 0:20:20.240
<v Speaker 1>town at all, So several times over the days I

0:20:20.280 --> 0:20:23.480
<v Speaker 1>spent in Bajajigito, I would look over my shoulder, hop

0:20:23.560 --> 0:20:26.520
<v Speaker 1>down the river bank, jump across the stream, and likely

0:20:26.640 --> 0:20:29.960
<v Speaker 1>jog out of town. Once on the trail, I'd started

0:20:30.000 --> 0:20:33.400
<v Speaker 1>to walk slowly and try and waive a groups outcoming migrants.

0:20:34.080 --> 0:20:36.200
<v Speaker 1>I didn't want to scare them. I offered to carry

0:20:36.200 --> 0:20:39.040
<v Speaker 1>their bags and let any help I could, supporting them

0:20:39.200 --> 0:20:41.680
<v Speaker 1>as they walked towards their first meal and clean drink

0:20:41.720 --> 0:21:03.440
<v Speaker 1>of water. In up to a week. Just getting to

0:21:03.520 --> 0:21:06.280
<v Speaker 1>barje Gito was a journey in itself for me. I

0:21:06.359 --> 0:21:09.840
<v Speaker 1>took two flights, a five hour drive which was evenally

0:21:09.840 --> 0:21:13.240
<v Speaker 1>split between paved roads, roads that aspired to pavement, and

0:21:13.320 --> 0:21:16.080
<v Speaker 1>dirt roads. At the end of our road journey, the

0:21:16.160 --> 0:21:19.879
<v Speaker 1>Pan American Highway, the links Alaska to Argentina, seems to

0:21:19.920 --> 0:21:23.840
<v Speaker 1>give up on fighting the jungle and Peter's out. Asphalt

0:21:24.040 --> 0:21:27.000
<v Speaker 1>turned to worse asphalt, which turned to dirt, which turned

0:21:27.040 --> 0:21:30.879
<v Speaker 1>to mud, which led us to a river. A driver, however,

0:21:31.400 --> 0:21:35.040
<v Speaker 1>was prepared for this. The drive here was mad, like

0:21:35.160 --> 0:21:37.640
<v Speaker 1>that road was fucked. We're in this tiny old guard.

0:21:37.680 --> 0:21:40.120
<v Speaker 1>The driver took off his shoes and socks to conduct

0:21:40.359 --> 0:21:43.520
<v Speaker 1>the more technical section of the drive, which I thought

0:21:43.600 --> 0:21:47.680
<v Speaker 1>was quite amusing. And yeah, really steep, lots of holes,

0:21:47.760 --> 0:21:51.600
<v Speaker 1>lots of potholes, you know, just really rutted out kind

0:21:51.600 --> 0:21:54.959
<v Speaker 1>of dirt road. And then we got here and thopped

0:21:55.040 --> 0:21:58.240
<v Speaker 1>some guys, negotiated a price and told him where we

0:21:58.280 --> 0:22:00.800
<v Speaker 1>wanted to go, and they said, yeah, sure, buy some water,

0:22:01.000 --> 0:22:04.040
<v Speaker 1>you know, snow water on the way about three hours

0:22:04.119 --> 0:22:07.800
<v Speaker 1>and so we bought some water right there, and yeah,

0:22:07.840 --> 0:22:11.879
<v Speaker 1>here we are on the boat now, as you can hear,

0:22:12.119 --> 0:22:14.399
<v Speaker 1>I recorded this on a piragua. It's a kind of

0:22:14.440 --> 0:22:17.040
<v Speaker 1>dugout canoe with the hole made out of a single

0:22:17.119 --> 0:22:19.640
<v Speaker 1>tree and a tooth stroke motor bolted on the back.

0:22:20.560 --> 0:22:22.399
<v Speaker 1>It's the only way to travel here other than on

0:22:22.480 --> 0:22:25.760
<v Speaker 1>your feet, and it's the only way the Embarra can

0:22:25.800 --> 0:22:30.000
<v Speaker 1>get the produced cigaret to market. The skill of the piragueros,

0:22:30.200 --> 0:22:33.600
<v Speaker 1>the people who drive the piraguas, is incredible. They navigate

0:22:33.680 --> 0:22:35.280
<v Speaker 1>parts of the river so shallow that they have to

0:22:35.320 --> 0:22:38.000
<v Speaker 1>pull up the two stroke motor. And I noticed all

0:22:38.000 --> 0:22:40.840
<v Speaker 1>the motors have propellers that are covered in chips and bashes,

0:22:41.119 --> 0:22:43.879
<v Speaker 1>from smacking into the rocks at the bottom. In the

0:22:43.960 --> 0:22:45.879
<v Speaker 1>bow of the boat, I sat on top of my

0:22:45.960 --> 0:22:50.600
<v Speaker 1>giant rucksack, marveling at the birds, insects, and foliage of

0:22:50.680 --> 0:22:54.320
<v Speaker 1>the jungle, and occasionally I jumped up to make fairly

0:22:54.400 --> 0:22:57.520
<v Speaker 1>useless contributions with the boat's bamboo pole under the close

0:22:57.560 --> 0:23:00.639
<v Speaker 1>supervision of Marcellino, a driver and are soon to be

0:23:00.720 --> 0:23:03.120
<v Speaker 1>host for mostly just laughed at me as I leaned

0:23:03.160 --> 0:23:05.600
<v Speaker 1>my whole way into the pole, which notably slipped, and

0:23:05.680 --> 0:23:08.119
<v Speaker 1>I tried to avoid falling face first into the chocolate

0:23:08.160 --> 0:23:12.200
<v Speaker 1>brown water. On the way to bout Jiquito, we passed

0:23:12.240 --> 0:23:15.800
<v Speaker 1>several small limber our villages. Little children waved at us

0:23:15.840 --> 0:23:17.520
<v Speaker 1>from the banks or from the shallows of the river

0:23:17.600 --> 0:23:20.800
<v Speaker 1>where they washed and played. Adults looked on I doubtless

0:23:20.880 --> 0:23:22.840
<v Speaker 1>why there one nurse's ex vict three white dude was

0:23:23.280 --> 0:23:25.200
<v Speaker 1>going the wrong way on the river for a migrant,

0:23:25.800 --> 0:23:29.640
<v Speaker 1>but they smiled and waved back anyway. After an overnight flight,

0:23:30.000 --> 0:23:32.639
<v Speaker 1>a five hour drive, and three hours in a dugout canoe,

0:23:33.520 --> 0:23:36.119
<v Speaker 1>we rounded a corner in the river. Abou Jiquito came

0:23:36.160 --> 0:23:39.800
<v Speaker 1>into view. Over the last few years, it's three oriented

0:23:39.880 --> 0:23:43.199
<v Speaker 1>itself from a tiny indigenous village to an unofficial reception

0:23:43.320 --> 0:23:47.800
<v Speaker 1>center for migrants. On my hopelessly outdated topo map, the

0:23:47.920 --> 0:23:52.000
<v Speaker 1>area has nothing but contours and green shading, no roads,

0:23:52.119 --> 0:23:55.680
<v Speaker 1>no trails, no markets of human existence at all, and

0:23:55.760 --> 0:23:58.879
<v Speaker 1>perhaps that's how the state sees this place. The Daddy

0:23:58.920 --> 0:24:01.720
<v Speaker 1>Inn is as real to most Panamanians a Sesame street

0:24:02.000 --> 0:24:05.040
<v Speaker 1>or Jurassic Park, But for the Enber this has been

0:24:05.080 --> 0:24:08.120
<v Speaker 1>their home since long before Panama and Columbia and even

0:24:08.200 --> 0:24:12.160
<v Speaker 1>maps existed. A few dozen houses in the village, mostly

0:24:12.200 --> 0:24:15.480
<v Speaker 1>built on stilts to avoid the seasonal floods, now offer

0:24:15.600 --> 0:24:18.639
<v Speaker 1>up their rooms as hostels for the migrants. Some of

0:24:18.720 --> 0:24:22.119
<v Speaker 1>them have enclosed at bottom floor using plywood or cinder blocks.

0:24:22.760 --> 0:24:26.240
<v Speaker 1>Others have strung hammocks from their support posts. For four

0:24:26.400 --> 0:24:29.200
<v Speaker 1>or five bugs, migrants can get their first good night's

0:24:29.200 --> 0:24:31.119
<v Speaker 1>sleep since they left Neck or Clee in Columbia as

0:24:31.200 --> 0:24:34.840
<v Speaker 1>much as a week before. Along the main street, which

0:24:34.880 --> 0:24:37.480
<v Speaker 1>is really just to raise concrete footpath about a meter across,

0:24:38.240 --> 0:24:40.359
<v Speaker 1>you can buy a meal any of half a dozen

0:24:40.400 --> 0:24:42.840
<v Speaker 1>places for five bucks. You can get an hour of

0:24:42.880 --> 0:24:44.879
<v Speaker 1>Wi Fi for a dollar, or charge your phone for

0:24:44.880 --> 0:24:47.880
<v Speaker 1>at the same price. Cold drinks for a dollar as well.

0:24:48.080 --> 0:24:49.920
<v Speaker 1>Are one of the many front rooms that have turned

0:24:49.960 --> 0:24:52.840
<v Speaker 1>into small kiosks. And that's where the migrants I have

0:24:52.920 --> 0:24:54.720
<v Speaker 1>been sitting down with that the river went. When they're

0:24:54.760 --> 0:24:57.360
<v Speaker 1>rived into town, I let them be for a while

0:24:57.520 --> 0:25:00.960
<v Speaker 1>I went off to interview more migrants. About a thousand

0:25:01.040 --> 0:25:04.159
<v Speaker 1>of them arrive in this village every day. Each year

0:25:04.240 --> 0:25:07.520
<v Speaker 1>since a pandemic has seen record numbers arrive, and the

0:25:07.560 --> 0:25:09.760
<v Speaker 1>little village on the side of a hill, surrounded by

0:25:09.840 --> 0:25:12.640
<v Speaker 1>palm trees and full of smiling children in their traditional

0:25:12.680 --> 0:25:16.600
<v Speaker 1>brightly colored paluomers chasing chickens and dogs, has welcomed every

0:25:16.640 --> 0:25:19.720
<v Speaker 1>single one of them. About a thousand of them arrive

0:25:19.760 --> 0:25:22.560
<v Speaker 1>in this town every day. To get here, they also

0:25:22.600 --> 0:25:24.920
<v Speaker 1>take a boat from neck o'clee across the Golf of

0:25:24.960 --> 0:25:28.120
<v Speaker 1>the Dabbienne. They crossed on small motor boats to Kapolgana

0:25:28.320 --> 0:25:31.160
<v Speaker 1>or Candel. Those are both towns on the western side

0:25:31.160 --> 0:25:33.880
<v Speaker 1>of the Gulf of the Darienne. From there they begin

0:25:33.960 --> 0:25:36.960
<v Speaker 1>their walk. Even though they're now north of the gulf,

0:25:37.280 --> 0:25:39.960
<v Speaker 1>they're still in Colombia, and on the Colombian side of

0:25:40.000 --> 0:25:42.520
<v Speaker 1>the border. They're guided by guides to whom they pay

0:25:42.600 --> 0:25:45.920
<v Speaker 1>several hundred dollars and in return receive protection and a

0:25:45.960 --> 0:25:50.320
<v Speaker 1>wristband that ensures they can walk without being robbed. Nobody

0:25:50.400 --> 0:25:52.960
<v Speaker 1>I spoke to had made it this far without paying

0:25:53.000 --> 0:25:55.800
<v Speaker 1>a guide. The area is largely under the control of

0:25:55.840 --> 0:25:58.800
<v Speaker 1>the Golf Cartel, several members of which were sanctioned by

0:25:58.840 --> 0:26:01.520
<v Speaker 1>the USA. While I was in the jungle, the marcos

0:26:01.560 --> 0:26:03.000
<v Speaker 1>I spoke to you didn't really have much bad to

0:26:03.040 --> 0:26:06.399
<v Speaker 1>say about this part of their experience, but universally acknowledged

0:26:06.440 --> 0:26:08.679
<v Speaker 1>that the next part was where they really confronted their

0:26:08.760 --> 0:26:12.359
<v Speaker 1>fears and nightmares about the Daddy. N Here's one Venezuelan

0:26:12.480 --> 0:26:14.000
<v Speaker 1>migrant sharing his experience.

0:26:14.480 --> 0:26:18.920
<v Speaker 9>Yeah, that's nothing compared to what comes from the border

0:26:18.960 --> 0:26:21.399
<v Speaker 9>to hear. Yes, the road is better, and I say

0:26:21.480 --> 0:26:23.879
<v Speaker 9>that the dangerous less too, and they have everything you

0:26:24.000 --> 0:26:27.040
<v Speaker 9>need there. You come prepared, you have, you come with water,

0:26:27.760 --> 0:26:30.959
<v Speaker 9>and there are also many ravines where you can drink water. Well,

0:26:31.000 --> 0:26:33.400
<v Speaker 9>there are springs that come from the mountain, but from

0:26:33.400 --> 0:26:34.960
<v Speaker 9>the border on it's pretty ugly.

0:26:36.760 --> 0:26:40.159
<v Speaker 1>It's a stretch from the Colombian Panamanian border at a

0:26:40.240 --> 0:26:42.840
<v Speaker 1>place that they call Las Bandavas, which means the flags

0:26:43.240 --> 0:26:48.000
<v Speaker 1>to Bajo Chiquito, where migrants suffer the most. There, they

0:26:48.040 --> 0:26:50.800
<v Speaker 1>can't drink from the river because it's human waste and

0:26:50.960 --> 0:26:54.200
<v Speaker 1>human remains that constantly fill it like the water deadly.

0:26:55.280 --> 0:26:58.240
<v Speaker 1>They must walk on unmaintained trails. It often turns in

0:26:58.359 --> 0:27:02.640
<v Speaker 1>deep mud. They only have the supplies they carry, which

0:27:02.720 --> 0:27:05.080
<v Speaker 1>often run out, or they jettison to stave weight On

0:27:05.119 --> 0:27:08.960
<v Speaker 1>the incredibly steep mountain path. They climb and descend those

0:27:09.040 --> 0:27:12.720
<v Speaker 1>mountains and cross rivers, often without eating or drinking for

0:27:12.880 --> 0:27:15.760
<v Speaker 1>days at a time. On the trail, they passed by

0:27:15.800 --> 0:27:18.280
<v Speaker 1>the bodies of their fellow travelers as a constant reminder

0:27:18.320 --> 0:27:21.200
<v Speaker 1>of the risk they're taking. If you ask people in

0:27:21.240 --> 0:27:24.040
<v Speaker 1>Panama City, they'll tell you the day and is closed now.

0:27:24.960 --> 0:27:28.359
<v Speaker 1>New President hose Raoul Molino was elected on a promise

0:27:28.480 --> 0:27:32.320
<v Speaker 1>to shut down the gap, end the humanitarian crisis, and

0:27:32.480 --> 0:27:36.040
<v Speaker 1>deport more migrants for the US funding, and that funding

0:27:36.080 --> 0:27:38.800
<v Speaker 1>has certainly arrived, with more than six million already spent

0:27:38.920 --> 0:27:42.239
<v Speaker 1>since he took office in July. Since then, Panama has

0:27:42.240 --> 0:27:46.520
<v Speaker 1>deported more than eleven hundred people to Venezuela, Cuba, Colombia,

0:27:46.680 --> 0:27:50.840
<v Speaker 1>and India. Each of these has been funded by US taxpayers.

0:27:51.720 --> 0:27:55.120
<v Speaker 1>Obviously the jungle isn't closed, and it can't really be closed.

0:27:55.960 --> 0:27:58.440
<v Speaker 1>But in an interview before he was elected, Molino said

0:27:58.480 --> 0:28:01.240
<v Speaker 1>that the border of the United States, instead of being

0:28:01.280 --> 0:28:05.520
<v Speaker 1>in Texas, has moved to Panama, and that is something

0:28:05.600 --> 0:28:09.119
<v Speaker 1>he can do with US support. I spoke to us

0:28:09.119 --> 0:28:11.280
<v Speaker 1>in venezuel and ladies help and carry their bags. It's

0:28:11.280 --> 0:28:12.879
<v Speaker 1>a steep hill, and they were saying that no one

0:28:12.920 --> 0:28:14.800
<v Speaker 1>has seen any barriers. I don't know anythink about any

0:28:14.800 --> 0:28:16.879
<v Speaker 1>barriers or any fences in a Darien and that like

0:28:17.560 --> 0:28:20.439
<v Speaker 1>they hadn't heard it was closed. Evidently it's not. I'm

0:28:20.480 --> 0:28:22.240
<v Speaker 1>standing in front of one hundred people who just got

0:28:22.280 --> 0:28:28.760
<v Speaker 1>off a boat from the Darienn Hubris. Aside, the rhetoric

0:28:28.840 --> 0:28:31.720
<v Speaker 1>of closing the Daddi, m signals are turn not just

0:28:31.840 --> 0:28:34.879
<v Speaker 1>in Panamanian politics, but in the way the world sees

0:28:34.920 --> 0:28:39.080
<v Speaker 1>and handles migration. The US has always sought to externalize

0:28:39.080 --> 0:28:42.640
<v Speaker 1>its borders, from US train border patrol officers and Dominican

0:28:42.680 --> 0:28:46.360
<v Speaker 1>Republic along the border is Haiti to DHS agents deploying

0:28:46.400 --> 0:28:50.480
<v Speaker 1>to Iraq and Afghanistan. As migration has become more politicized,

0:28:50.960 --> 0:28:53.280
<v Speaker 1>the US has sought to move its enforcement away from

0:28:53.360 --> 0:28:57.200
<v Speaker 1>prying eyes and from compassion, and instead brought more trauma

0:28:57.360 --> 0:29:00.840
<v Speaker 1>to a place that is already so high. I've spent

0:29:01.000 --> 0:29:02.840
<v Speaker 1>much of the last decade of my life watching the

0:29:02.880 --> 0:29:05.080
<v Speaker 1>state try to bring the mountains and desert close to

0:29:05.120 --> 0:29:08.120
<v Speaker 1>where I live under its control. I've stood with kumia

0:29:08.160 --> 0:29:12.000
<v Speaker 1>I people as the government dynamited their graveyards. I found

0:29:12.000 --> 0:29:15.600
<v Speaker 1>border walk contractors lost deep in the mountains. I've driven

0:29:15.640 --> 0:29:18.600
<v Speaker 1>the impossibly steep concrete roads that they built, worried about

0:29:18.600 --> 0:29:21.800
<v Speaker 1>my truck turning end on end. I've seen billions of

0:29:21.880 --> 0:29:24.920
<v Speaker 1>dollars thrown at these mountains, and I've seen people with

0:29:25.000 --> 0:29:28.080
<v Speaker 1>twenty dollars angle grinders or ladders made of old palettes

0:29:28.120 --> 0:29:31.880
<v Speaker 1>defeat the wall in moments. Trying to close borders doesn't

0:29:31.920 --> 0:29:33.920
<v Speaker 1>work at home, and it won't work in the Daddy

0:29:33.960 --> 0:29:36.680
<v Speaker 1>and Gap either. Just building the roads to get the

0:29:36.760 --> 0:29:40.280
<v Speaker 1>construction equipment into the gap is a gargantuan task, and

0:29:40.360 --> 0:29:42.880
<v Speaker 1>any attempt to create a barrier across the sixty kilometer

0:29:43.080 --> 0:29:46.560
<v Speaker 1>wide wilderness area will simply push migrants onto other more

0:29:46.640 --> 0:29:50.720
<v Speaker 1>dangerous routes, into places where you can't build, and the

0:29:50.760 --> 0:29:52.960
<v Speaker 1>place is where nobody can rescue you. If you fall

0:29:53.040 --> 0:29:56.200
<v Speaker 1>down or break your leg, that doesn't mean there's nothing

0:29:56.240 --> 0:29:59.400
<v Speaker 1>the US can do. I saw first hand the impact

0:29:59.440 --> 0:30:02.680
<v Speaker 1>of Americans spending here as migrants had a reception center

0:30:02.720 --> 0:30:06.080
<v Speaker 1>called Lajas Blancas, had their families torn apart, and men,

0:30:06.200 --> 0:30:09.120
<v Speaker 1>women and children cried as their parents and partners were

0:30:09.160 --> 0:30:12.320
<v Speaker 1>taken away for a flight back to Colombia, Cuba, or

0:30:12.400 --> 0:30:16.200
<v Speaker 1>Venezuela that my taxes helped to pay for. I consider

0:30:16.240 --> 0:30:18.880
<v Speaker 1>that children with toys and stickers and something to eat

0:30:18.960 --> 0:30:22.000
<v Speaker 1>as their dads were loaded into a flatbed truck. A

0:30:22.080 --> 0:30:25.480
<v Speaker 1>government didn't send money to feed these children, but it

0:30:25.600 --> 0:30:27.720
<v Speaker 1>seemed to have the funds to fund their parents' deportation.

0:30:29.200 --> 0:30:32.200
<v Speaker 1>By deporting people from Panama, the US effectively deprives them

0:30:32.240 --> 0:30:34.480
<v Speaker 1>of much of the due process they should, in theory,

0:30:34.560 --> 0:30:37.240
<v Speaker 1>have the right to in the United States, and the

0:30:37.360 --> 0:30:39.480
<v Speaker 1>US can easily deport them back to places like Cuba

0:30:39.520 --> 0:30:43.480
<v Speaker 1>and Venezuela, which it considers to be dictatorial regimes. The

0:30:43.600 --> 0:30:47.640
<v Speaker 1>US does not and cannot stop migration. People have always moved,

0:30:48.440 --> 0:30:51.160
<v Speaker 1>and people will always want a better future for their children.

0:30:52.120 --> 0:30:54.200
<v Speaker 1>What it can do is to make it as painful

0:30:54.360 --> 0:30:57.680
<v Speaker 1>and dangerous as possible. But the rais of word barriers

0:30:57.720 --> 0:30:59.800
<v Speaker 1>in the Daddy and Gap, which I've seen person on

0:30:59.800 --> 0:31:03.640
<v Speaker 1>social media didn't exist for the hundreds of migrants I

0:31:03.720 --> 0:31:06.400
<v Speaker 1>spoke to. No one I asked had even seen them,

0:31:07.000 --> 0:31:09.120
<v Speaker 1>but what they had seen was far worse.

0:31:10.720 --> 0:31:13.920
<v Speaker 10>Aimucholi, there are many rivers that you're forced into all

0:31:13.960 --> 0:31:16.880
<v Speaker 10>the time. You're putting your life and everything else on

0:31:16.960 --> 0:31:19.720
<v Speaker 10>the line there. I was worried that the indigenous people

0:31:19.760 --> 0:31:23.000
<v Speaker 10>would come out and do something to us. In the nights.

0:31:23.160 --> 0:31:25.800
<v Speaker 10>I was worried that any of the children, God forbid,

0:31:26.120 --> 0:31:29.320
<v Speaker 10>would have an accident. The same for me. It's horrible

0:31:29.440 --> 0:31:30.040
<v Speaker 10>to think about it.

0:31:30.080 --> 0:31:34.680
<v Speaker 1>Now, this mother hood cross with a five, six, and

0:31:34.800 --> 0:31:38.760
<v Speaker 1>sixteen year old child, the baby of six months. They'd

0:31:38.760 --> 0:31:41.120
<v Speaker 1>all made it in one piece, but the journey clearly

0:31:41.160 --> 0:31:42.440
<v Speaker 1>had its impact on the children.

0:31:44.600 --> 0:31:46.440
<v Speaker 10>There are many people who are left out there without

0:31:46.520 --> 0:31:48.959
<v Speaker 10>food and do not have anything to give to their children.

0:31:49.560 --> 0:31:53.080
<v Speaker 10>We had food until last night, nothing left now, and

0:31:53.200 --> 0:31:56.000
<v Speaker 10>we had to each one had to just eat a

0:31:56.040 --> 0:31:58.440
<v Speaker 10>little bit because we had nothing else to give them.

0:31:59.080 --> 0:32:01.680
<v Speaker 10>You can't find anything there. It's in the middle of nowhere.

0:32:02.120 --> 0:32:05.360
<v Speaker 10>People died right now, along with those who came with us. Yesterday.

0:32:05.680 --> 0:32:06.880
<v Speaker 10>How many died yesterday?

0:32:07.280 --> 0:32:07.480
<v Speaker 1>Three?

0:32:07.800 --> 0:32:11.920
<v Speaker 10>I think three died yesterday. One drowned in the river. Yeah,

0:32:12.360 --> 0:32:17.680
<v Speaker 10>it's really tough this. No, no, nobody should do this. Nobody.

0:32:18.160 --> 0:32:21.000
<v Speaker 10>We do this out of pure physical necessity to look

0:32:21.080 --> 0:32:23.560
<v Speaker 10>for a better future for our kids. We can't stay

0:32:23.600 --> 0:32:26.000
<v Speaker 10>in our country, We couldn't stay any longer.

0:32:26.040 --> 0:32:29.240
<v Speaker 1>There here are a couple of the kids I spoke to,

0:32:29.480 --> 0:32:31.800
<v Speaker 1>or in some cases, the kids who took my regorda

0:32:32.040 --> 0:32:33.600
<v Speaker 1>and conducted interviews with each other.

0:32:34.720 --> 0:32:39.040
<v Speaker 10>On the mountains. I was so tired and I couldn't

0:32:39.040 --> 0:32:41.600
<v Speaker 10>climb anymore, and when I fell in the river, I

0:32:41.760 --> 0:32:42.520
<v Speaker 10>was really scared.

0:32:48.160 --> 0:32:50.640
<v Speaker 1>Apparently the whole thing was like an adventure she'd seen

0:32:50.680 --> 0:32:53.600
<v Speaker 1>Pepper Pig having, which at once made me giggle and

0:32:53.720 --> 0:32:55.680
<v Speaker 1>also one reflection, It's one of the saddest things I've

0:32:55.680 --> 0:32:58.400
<v Speaker 1>ever had to record. I'm sure her mum told her

0:32:58.440 --> 0:33:00.440
<v Speaker 1>that to make it easier for her to pass through

0:33:00.440 --> 0:33:03.200
<v Speaker 1>a terrible place, But really she ought to be at home,

0:33:03.360 --> 0:33:06.480
<v Speaker 1>washing Peppa Pig and playing with her friends. No walking

0:33:06.560 --> 0:33:09.320
<v Speaker 1>past three dead bodies which are currently decomposing on the trail.

0:33:10.000 --> 0:33:13.400
<v Speaker 1>She seemed remarkably resilient. She said the long bus ride

0:33:13.440 --> 0:33:15.640
<v Speaker 1>she'd taken to get there went boring because she enjoyed

0:33:15.640 --> 0:33:18.040
<v Speaker 1>looking out the window, and the whole journey was well,

0:33:18.120 --> 0:33:19.040
<v Speaker 1>I'll let her say.

0:33:18.840 --> 0:33:21.800
<v Speaker 8>It else, Mohammed, I'm not buying.

0:33:23.200 --> 0:33:23.320
<v Speaker 2>Her.

0:33:23.400 --> 0:33:24.760
<v Speaker 1>Mum gave us a different account.

0:33:25.520 --> 0:33:31.000
<v Speaker 11>Rah, I didn't want to cry because I didn't want

0:33:31.040 --> 0:33:34.040
<v Speaker 11>her to see me crying. But sometimes I would explode

0:33:34.120 --> 0:33:37.040
<v Speaker 11>because it's hard for your child to ask you for water,

0:33:37.160 --> 0:33:39.080
<v Speaker 11>to ask you for food, and you don't have any

0:33:39.960 --> 0:33:41.600
<v Speaker 11>to be in a place where you walk. You walk

0:33:41.680 --> 0:33:44.360
<v Speaker 11>from five in the morning, it's five in the afternoon.

0:33:44.680 --> 0:33:47.160
<v Speaker 11>You're walking. You don't know what to do, going through

0:33:47.200 --> 0:33:49.360
<v Speaker 11>more than one hundred rivers and asking God not to

0:33:49.520 --> 0:33:53.120
<v Speaker 11>rain and not wanting it to get worse. It rained,

0:33:53.280 --> 0:33:54.360
<v Speaker 11>and the girl got a fever.

0:33:54.800 --> 0:33:55.600
<v Speaker 1>She got a fever.

0:33:56.400 --> 0:33:59.360
<v Speaker 11>But well, God is good that we pray a lot.

0:34:00.480 --> 0:34:02.120
<v Speaker 11>I say that we don't know God so much in

0:34:02.160 --> 0:34:05.160
<v Speaker 11>the church from the process and the process that we

0:34:05.240 --> 0:34:07.760
<v Speaker 11>are in, and we don't know we can be so

0:34:07.880 --> 0:34:10.439
<v Speaker 11>strong until we go through that storm and we see

0:34:10.480 --> 0:34:12.560
<v Speaker 11>that He protects us. He knows that He was always

0:34:12.560 --> 0:34:15.280
<v Speaker 11>there watching over us, taking care of us at all times.

0:34:17.160 --> 0:34:20.000
<v Speaker 1>Parents being amazed at their children and drawing shrink from

0:34:20.040 --> 0:34:23.040
<v Speaker 1>them and their faith was a common message I heard

0:34:23.080 --> 0:34:26.920
<v Speaker 1>from migrants. He's a migrant from Zimbabwe telling me how

0:34:26.960 --> 0:34:29.239
<v Speaker 1>her daughter inspired her to keep going when she felt

0:34:29.280 --> 0:34:30.480
<v Speaker 1>like she couldn't walk anymore.

0:34:31.160 --> 0:34:34.120
<v Speaker 8>My daughter she was strong, she was strong, but she

0:34:34.680 --> 0:34:37.399
<v Speaker 8>was crying also, but she had what wound all over

0:34:37.480 --> 0:34:40.320
<v Speaker 8>the body. Even me, I was crying myself. I was like,

0:34:40.520 --> 0:34:44.000
<v Speaker 8>I want to just put myself in the water. Then again,

0:34:44.200 --> 0:34:48.000
<v Speaker 8>just go both. The gain was tough, really really tough.

0:34:48.080 --> 0:34:52.680
<v Speaker 8>The mountain, the stones, the river. It's not easy at all.

0:34:52.840 --> 0:34:57.200
<v Speaker 8>It's not very I don't even recommended someone to say

0:34:57.440 --> 0:35:00.400
<v Speaker 8>you use daddy and give no. And even myself I

0:35:00.560 --> 0:35:03.960
<v Speaker 8>did know about it. Yeah, I was regretting myself. I

0:35:04.120 --> 0:35:07.920
<v Speaker 8>was crying. I was like, God, I don't know my

0:35:08.040 --> 0:35:10.359
<v Speaker 8>family and my family they don't know where I am

0:35:10.560 --> 0:35:11.040
<v Speaker 8>right now.

0:35:12.680 --> 0:35:15.600
<v Speaker 1>But like so many other migrants, when the government of

0:35:15.640 --> 0:35:18.240
<v Speaker 1>the world abandoned her, she found strength in the strangers

0:35:18.280 --> 0:35:20.080
<v Speaker 1>along the road who wouldn't abandon her.

0:35:20.520 --> 0:35:23.959
<v Speaker 8>We didn't even eat anything. We just asked and people,

0:35:24.000 --> 0:35:25.600
<v Speaker 8>can I have a piece of biscuit?

0:35:25.680 --> 0:35:26.520
<v Speaker 7>They just help us.

0:35:26.920 --> 0:35:27.479
<v Speaker 4>That's nice.

0:35:27.560 --> 0:35:28.640
<v Speaker 1>The other migrants helped you.

0:35:28.960 --> 0:35:29.840
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, the others.

0:35:30.280 --> 0:35:33.400
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, do you think that they treat African people differently?

0:35:35.200 --> 0:35:38.759
<v Speaker 8>Very nice, especially these Spanish people, they are very nice.

0:35:38.920 --> 0:35:41.600
<v Speaker 8>I don't want to like because if you need help,

0:35:41.680 --> 0:35:44.040
<v Speaker 8>you for call them for your look. The other ones

0:35:44.160 --> 0:35:47.200
<v Speaker 8>they might run away, but the other ones they just

0:35:47.320 --> 0:35:51.600
<v Speaker 8>come for health. They even give us tablets on the road,

0:35:52.360 --> 0:35:56.320
<v Speaker 8>give us energy drinks, give my daughter a sweets for energe.

0:35:57.200 --> 0:35:59.640
<v Speaker 8>They push us like, let's go, guys, let's call, let's go.

0:35:59.800 --> 0:36:03.279
<v Speaker 7>You make it, and we really make it.

0:36:28.680 --> 0:36:31.399
<v Speaker 1>The journey over the mountains to Banama has become more

0:36:31.400 --> 0:36:34.080
<v Speaker 1>and more popular in recent years as other routes have

0:36:34.160 --> 0:36:37.600
<v Speaker 1>become more dangerous or closed themselves off to migrants entirely.

0:36:38.560 --> 0:36:41.480
<v Speaker 1>It's a route the Embra tell me that started with

0:36:41.640 --> 0:36:45.200
<v Speaker 1>people leaving India and then Haiti. It grew as conditions

0:36:45.239 --> 0:36:48.600
<v Speaker 1>in Venezuela became more unsustainable and people found themselves too

0:36:48.640 --> 0:36:51.279
<v Speaker 1>poor to stay home and too poor to travel north

0:36:51.320 --> 0:36:54.359
<v Speaker 1>by any other means, and so they chose a deadly

0:36:54.480 --> 0:36:56.640
<v Speaker 1>jungle over a future in a country where their votes

0:36:56.640 --> 0:37:00.800
<v Speaker 1>don't matter. Last year, as many is half a million

0:37:00.840 --> 0:37:03.879
<v Speaker 1>people across the jungle. This year we might see more

0:37:04.800 --> 0:37:07.480
<v Speaker 1>Magaret's arriving about Jigito, spend the day in the village

0:37:07.560 --> 0:37:09.880
<v Speaker 1>before taking off in a piaguoa of their own up

0:37:09.960 --> 0:37:12.920
<v Speaker 1>to Lahas Blancas, the migrant reception center I mentioned earlier.

0:37:13.640 --> 0:37:16.760
<v Speaker 1>They register with Panamanian Board Patrol known by the acronym

0:37:16.880 --> 0:37:20.040
<v Speaker 1>Cena Front, and they call their families to say they survived.

0:37:21.040 --> 0:37:23.960
<v Speaker 1>Then they dry out their blistered feet, enjoy the cooking

0:37:24.000 --> 0:37:26.000
<v Speaker 1>of several of the families who have turned their homes

0:37:26.080 --> 0:37:30.000
<v Speaker 1>into sort of ersad's restaurants. They sleep on the floors

0:37:30.040 --> 0:37:33.080
<v Speaker 1>of the houses or underneath them, bardge their phones for

0:37:33.160 --> 0:37:36.439
<v Speaker 1>a dollar a time. Certainly, migration has changed this town,

0:37:37.040 --> 0:37:39.400
<v Speaker 1>and I want to talk about that more in tomorrow's episode.

0:37:40.080 --> 0:37:42.839
<v Speaker 1>But despite more than a million people passing through this route,

0:37:43.440 --> 0:37:48.080
<v Speaker 1>you don't find antimigrant sentiment here right now, despite the

0:37:48.120 --> 0:37:50.839
<v Speaker 1>gap being a deadly deterrent, numbers are expected to reach

0:37:50.880 --> 0:37:55.120
<v Speaker 1>a requid again this year, maybe seven hundred thousand people

0:37:55.160 --> 0:37:58.040
<v Speaker 1>will walk the gap. But despite these numbers, which may

0:37:58.120 --> 0:38:01.200
<v Speaker 1>seem high for a small country, I didn't really find

0:38:01.280 --> 0:38:04.600
<v Speaker 1>much anti migroan sentiment in Panama as a whole. There's

0:38:04.640 --> 0:38:06.759
<v Speaker 1>plenty of it in the US, though, and as the

0:38:06.840 --> 0:38:09.600
<v Speaker 1>United States winds down its war and terror. It needs

0:38:09.640 --> 0:38:12.640
<v Speaker 1>a new nebulous enemy to justify its military spending and

0:38:12.880 --> 0:38:16.040
<v Speaker 1>to keep the security into veillance companies donating too politicians

0:38:16.080 --> 0:38:20.080
<v Speaker 1>in their millions. In part, it is found that by

0:38:20.160 --> 0:38:23.880
<v Speaker 1>simply opening a floodgate of weapons and funding, they can

0:38:23.920 --> 0:38:27.520
<v Speaker 1>spew forth genocide and death in Palestine and keep some

0:38:27.640 --> 0:38:30.719
<v Speaker 1>of its income streams. But it needs a more long

0:38:30.840 --> 0:38:34.120
<v Speaker 1>term solution. There are only so many Palestinian babies that

0:38:34.200 --> 0:38:36.439
<v Speaker 1>can bomb, and we'll run out of Palestinians long before

0:38:36.440 --> 0:38:39.560
<v Speaker 1>we run out of bombs. The USA is new enemy

0:38:40.239 --> 0:38:42.200
<v Speaker 1>when it must seek out all over the world. It's

0:38:42.239 --> 0:38:45.399
<v Speaker 1>a migrant. It's a woman I met carrying her child

0:38:45.440 --> 0:38:49.560
<v Speaker 1>across the mountains. The little Venezuelan girl throwing bottle caps

0:38:49.560 --> 0:38:51.560
<v Speaker 1>into a cinder block with me to pass the time

0:38:51.920 --> 0:38:55.120
<v Speaker 1>as she asked me questions about America. It's a twenty

0:38:55.160 --> 0:38:57.600
<v Speaker 1>one year old man who's remains my friends found at

0:38:57.600 --> 0:39:00.600
<v Speaker 1>the border on a hot day this September. The US

0:39:00.840 --> 0:39:03.320
<v Speaker 1>will stop at nothing and fining and destroying the migrant,

0:39:03.800 --> 0:39:05.439
<v Speaker 1>and just as it did in the War on Terror,

0:39:05.840 --> 0:39:08.600
<v Speaker 1>it will find fast friends in states desperate to avail

0:39:08.640 --> 0:39:11.560
<v Speaker 1>themselves to the seemingly unlimited flow of resources the US

0:39:11.640 --> 0:39:14.880
<v Speaker 1>dedicates to keeping its conflicts out of the sights and

0:39:14.960 --> 0:39:28.400
<v Speaker 1>the minds of its citizens. The USA's open hostility to

0:39:28.440 --> 0:39:31.640
<v Speaker 1>migrants isn't something that's I'm known here. Everyone I met

0:39:31.680 --> 0:39:34.440
<v Speaker 1>knew about it. Several of them had watched with horror

0:39:34.600 --> 0:39:37.319
<v Speaker 1>as Kamala Harris and Donald Trump argued not about how

0:39:37.400 --> 0:39:40.000
<v Speaker 1>to treat migrants but about who could turn more of

0:39:40.080 --> 0:39:43.440
<v Speaker 1>them away. In a recent presidential debate. Every migrant I

0:39:43.560 --> 0:39:47.480
<v Speaker 1>met had questions about CBP, one, about US asylum policy,

0:39:48.000 --> 0:39:50.040
<v Speaker 1>and about how they could get to the US before

0:39:50.080 --> 0:39:54.000
<v Speaker 1>a second Trump administration. Despite this, they all clung to

0:39:54.040 --> 0:39:57.000
<v Speaker 1>their versions of the American dream. They wanted to work

0:39:57.200 --> 0:39:59.480
<v Speaker 1>and be paid a fair wage, to send their kids

0:39:59.520 --> 0:40:02.000
<v Speaker 1>to school and maybe to college, to feel safe in

0:40:02.040 --> 0:40:04.200
<v Speaker 1>their homes, and to be able to speak a dress

0:40:04.200 --> 0:40:08.000
<v Speaker 1>as they wish without varing consequences. All of those things

0:40:08.360 --> 0:40:11.440
<v Speaker 1>are imperiling this country too, and they know that, but

0:40:11.560 --> 0:40:15.280
<v Speaker 1>they still feel their dreams are worth the journey. For Noemi,

0:40:15.680 --> 0:40:18.120
<v Speaker 1>the little girl who took the daddy and in Astride,

0:40:18.680 --> 0:40:21.759
<v Speaker 1>the American dream was pretty simple. She wanted two things.

0:40:22.520 --> 0:40:24.720
<v Speaker 1>To see Minnie Mouse and to see her aunt.

0:40:25.760 --> 0:40:27.160
<v Speaker 7>Why am I Mini.

0:40:28.640 --> 0:40:31.760
<v Speaker 4>Get dear with a seven or thousand eros? A study air.

0:40:33.360 --> 0:40:34.360
<v Speaker 10>Not yell an.

0:40:34.440 --> 0:40:37.560
<v Speaker 4>Ammia as to Dear Ami Dea.

0:40:47.520 --> 0:40:49.959
<v Speaker 11>It Could Happen Here is a production of cool Zone Media.

0:40:50.200 --> 0:40:53.240
<v Speaker 11>For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website

0:40:53.360 --> 0:40:55.880
<v Speaker 11>cool Zonemedia dot com, or check us out on the

0:40:55.920 --> 0:40:59.800
<v Speaker 11>iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

0:41:00.320 --> 0:41:02.200
<v Speaker 11>You can now find sources for it could Happen Here

0:41:02.239 --> 0:41:05.200
<v Speaker 11>listed directly in episode descriptions. Thanks for listening.