1 00:00:04,080 --> 00:00:06,120 Speaker 1: What do you do when life doesn't go according to 2 00:00:06,160 --> 00:00:09,719 Speaker 1: plan that moment you lose a job, or a loved one, 3 00:00:10,240 --> 00:00:14,080 Speaker 1: or even a piece of yourself. I'm Brookshields and this 4 00:00:14,560 --> 00:00:18,720 Speaker 1: is now What, a podcast about pivotal moments as told 5 00:00:18,760 --> 00:00:21,560 Speaker 1: by people who lived them. Each week, I sit down 6 00:00:21,600 --> 00:00:23,800 Speaker 1: with a guest to talk about the times they were 7 00:00:23,880 --> 00:00:26,880 Speaker 1: knocked off course and what they did to move forward. 8 00:00:27,880 --> 00:00:33,080 Speaker 1: Some stories are funny, others are gut wrenching, but all 9 00:00:33,320 --> 00:00:38,320 Speaker 1: are unapologetically human and remind us that every success and 10 00:00:38,440 --> 00:00:42,800 Speaker 1: every setback is accompanied by a choice, and that choice 11 00:00:43,000 --> 00:00:45,640 Speaker 1: answers one question, now what. 12 00:00:49,479 --> 00:00:52,760 Speaker 2: I've played hundreds of shows before I had any kind 13 00:00:52,840 --> 00:00:55,760 Speaker 2: of profession, all your own materials. Yeah, I mean I 14 00:00:55,800 --> 00:00:59,440 Speaker 2: started my very first gig. I played I Will Survive 15 00:00:59,640 --> 00:01:02,200 Speaker 2: with a drum machine on my keyboard, and I don't 16 00:01:02,200 --> 00:01:05,720 Speaker 2: even think I could really even play the chords properly. 17 00:01:05,880 --> 00:01:09,160 Speaker 2: I think I just just banking on the charm of that. 18 00:01:10,640 --> 00:01:15,640 Speaker 2: But you certainly have you learn you learn the way? Yeah, 19 00:01:15,720 --> 00:01:20,360 Speaker 2: but yeah, I think you know. I pursued music not 20 00:01:20,440 --> 00:01:23,080 Speaker 2: really as a choice, but it just always felt like 21 00:01:23,440 --> 00:01:24,360 Speaker 2: my calling. 22 00:01:26,880 --> 00:01:30,560 Speaker 1: My guest today has the voice of an angel, Sarah 23 00:01:30,600 --> 00:01:34,600 Speaker 1: Brellis is a singer, songwriter, actress, and author. She's dazzled 24 00:01:34,600 --> 00:01:38,000 Speaker 1: audiences on Broadway and shows like Waitress and Into the Woods. 25 00:01:38,360 --> 00:01:42,720 Speaker 1: She stars in Peacock's hilarious Girls, five Eva and In 26 00:01:42,800 --> 00:01:46,360 Speaker 1: Case That's Not Enough. She's also sold millions of albums 27 00:01:46,400 --> 00:01:50,320 Speaker 1: and won multiple Grammys. I love learning more about her 28 00:01:50,400 --> 00:01:53,560 Speaker 1: origin story and think it's badass how hard she has 29 00:01:53,640 --> 00:01:57,120 Speaker 1: fought to keep her voice and career authentic to who 30 00:01:57,160 --> 00:02:00,640 Speaker 1: she is. I truly don't know another or more quite 31 00:02:00,800 --> 00:02:10,560 Speaker 1: like her. So here is Sarah Burrells. Sarah Burrellis. Let's 32 00:02:10,680 --> 00:02:12,440 Speaker 1: just jump right in, and I want to say thank 33 00:02:12,480 --> 00:02:15,400 Speaker 1: you so much for coming on the show. I was 34 00:02:16,120 --> 00:02:19,200 Speaker 1: just so honored when I heard that you were open 35 00:02:19,240 --> 00:02:22,440 Speaker 1: to it and wanted to come on. So just thank you. 36 00:02:22,560 --> 00:02:27,160 Speaker 1: I've been a fan for an incredibly long time and 37 00:02:27,840 --> 00:02:29,160 Speaker 1: I appreciate your time. 38 00:02:29,360 --> 00:02:32,480 Speaker 2: Thank you right back, Atcha, I adore you. I'm so 39 00:02:32,520 --> 00:02:35,560 Speaker 2: happy to be talking and sorry for I'm having terrible allergies, 40 00:02:35,600 --> 00:02:38,760 Speaker 2: so I sound like I have a cold, but Galin. 41 00:02:39,480 --> 00:02:42,280 Speaker 1: It's the absolute worst. We were just talking about that. Now. 42 00:02:42,720 --> 00:02:42,920 Speaker 2: You know. 43 00:02:42,960 --> 00:02:46,600 Speaker 1: It's funny because sometimes I almost wish that I didn't 44 00:02:46,600 --> 00:02:49,720 Speaker 1: do any research just because I like to just have 45 00:02:49,800 --> 00:02:52,760 Speaker 1: like a girlfriend conversation. But one of the things that 46 00:02:52,919 --> 00:02:59,600 Speaker 1: is so striking to me is the versatility of your talent, 47 00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:06,280 Speaker 1: versatility of your career, the longevity of it, and how 48 00:03:06,880 --> 00:03:12,000 Speaker 1: how you're still able to maintain this. It's almost like 49 00:03:12,040 --> 00:03:16,720 Speaker 1: an anonymity. And I mean that in the best possible 50 00:03:17,320 --> 00:03:19,000 Speaker 1: I mean it is a huge compliment. 51 00:03:19,520 --> 00:03:22,360 Speaker 2: Yes, no, it's I can actually really live a very 52 00:03:22,680 --> 00:03:27,480 Speaker 2: normal life. I really I would not wish fame, like 53 00:03:27,639 --> 00:03:30,040 Speaker 2: real fame, like the kind of fame you have on 54 00:03:30,080 --> 00:03:34,360 Speaker 2: my worst enemy. And I hope that doesn't count terrible, 55 00:03:34,400 --> 00:03:37,440 Speaker 2: but it does. The same is the worst byproduct of 56 00:03:37,480 --> 00:03:40,880 Speaker 2: getting to be an extraordinary artist, Like I think it's 57 00:03:40,920 --> 00:03:45,520 Speaker 2: the it's so toxic and it's so distorting, and I 58 00:03:45,520 --> 00:03:48,360 Speaker 2: think I'm I'm actually just literally a little too boring. 59 00:03:48,560 --> 00:03:50,720 Speaker 2: I think the press is not that like I'm just 60 00:03:50,760 --> 00:03:53,120 Speaker 2: not doing anything that's that interesting. 61 00:03:54,560 --> 00:04:00,000 Speaker 1: So yeah, oh god, I don't agree, but I will 62 00:04:00,120 --> 00:04:03,280 Speaker 1: say that, especially now, I mean social media, it's like 63 00:04:03,920 --> 00:04:06,040 Speaker 1: that just was one of the worst things that could 64 00:04:06,080 --> 00:04:08,840 Speaker 1: have ever happened to me. Yeah, just because it was 65 00:04:09,080 --> 00:04:13,640 Speaker 1: there was no escape whatsoever. And even in say in 66 00:04:13,800 --> 00:04:15,520 Speaker 1: thinking that I was going to say this to you. 67 00:04:15,600 --> 00:04:19,640 Speaker 1: I thought, God, it's we live in such a different time. 68 00:04:19,800 --> 00:04:20,040 Speaker 2: You know. 69 00:04:20,120 --> 00:04:23,159 Speaker 1: Now if you ask younger people, you know, what do 70 00:04:23,200 --> 00:04:24,960 Speaker 1: you want? They say, I want to be famous. 71 00:04:25,040 --> 00:04:25,200 Speaker 2: You know. 72 00:04:25,240 --> 00:04:27,760 Speaker 1: People don't say I want to do this, or I 73 00:04:27,839 --> 00:04:31,120 Speaker 1: have this vocation or practice that a part of my 74 00:04:31,200 --> 00:04:35,880 Speaker 1: creative my creativity or and it's such a different cultural shift. 75 00:04:36,320 --> 00:04:39,919 Speaker 2: I really feel like my fancy will tell you, like, 76 00:04:40,000 --> 00:04:42,720 Speaker 2: I don't have a poker face, like I don't and 77 00:04:43,320 --> 00:04:45,599 Speaker 2: this is a blessing and a curse, but I really 78 00:04:45,680 --> 00:04:49,919 Speaker 2: don't have another speed like It's just it's what you 79 00:04:49,960 --> 00:04:54,320 Speaker 2: see is what you get. The sort of authentic barebones 80 00:04:54,720 --> 00:04:57,679 Speaker 2: route was sort of the only road for me to walk, 81 00:04:57,880 --> 00:04:59,480 Speaker 2: I think, and survive. 82 00:05:00,160 --> 00:05:01,400 Speaker 1: What were you like as a little girl? 83 00:05:01,720 --> 00:05:10,920 Speaker 2: I was, I think, very awkward and precocious. And I've 84 00:05:10,960 --> 00:05:15,480 Speaker 2: always been someone who is like very honest, not always 85 00:05:15,520 --> 00:05:18,719 Speaker 2: have the most tact like honesty first, even if it's 86 00:05:19,279 --> 00:05:22,960 Speaker 2: I had to learn tact much later in my life. 87 00:05:23,480 --> 00:05:27,560 Speaker 2: But always very tenderhearted, really sensitive, always be very sensitive, 88 00:05:27,640 --> 00:05:31,159 Speaker 2: so get my feelings very easily. And I really love 89 00:05:31,440 --> 00:05:35,120 Speaker 2: people and I love I always refer to it as 90 00:05:35,240 --> 00:05:40,080 Speaker 2: emotional architecture. It's like the way we the way our 91 00:05:40,120 --> 00:05:43,360 Speaker 2: Psyche's workers I find to just be endlessly fascinating. 92 00:05:43,520 --> 00:05:47,159 Speaker 1: Those are qualities, though, that don't make it very easy 93 00:05:47,279 --> 00:05:52,839 Speaker 1: to survive in this industry. You know, I think it's 94 00:05:52,920 --> 00:05:54,839 Speaker 1: painful to feel so much. 95 00:05:55,520 --> 00:05:58,960 Speaker 2: I totally agree, But I do think, at least for me, 96 00:05:59,440 --> 00:06:03,000 Speaker 2: especially in this decade of my life, I have come 97 00:06:03,040 --> 00:06:07,760 Speaker 2: to appreciate that tenderness so much, and the fact that 98 00:06:07,800 --> 00:06:11,320 Speaker 2: I was able to pursue this in some ways in 99 00:06:11,360 --> 00:06:15,680 Speaker 2: spite of that tenderness, because I think we need people 100 00:06:16,080 --> 00:06:22,599 Speaker 2: in positions like ours who are empathic and empathetic and 101 00:06:22,760 --> 00:06:24,000 Speaker 2: compassionate people. 102 00:06:24,400 --> 00:06:27,200 Speaker 1: And you're originally from California. 103 00:06:26,880 --> 00:06:31,039 Speaker 2: Yes, northern California, a little tiny town called Eureka, but yeah, 104 00:06:31,040 --> 00:06:35,440 Speaker 2: it's very rural and big, beautiful redwood for old growth 105 00:06:35,480 --> 00:06:38,000 Speaker 2: redwood forests, and it's right on the ocean. It's an 106 00:06:38,040 --> 00:06:42,640 Speaker 2: absolutely extraordinarily beautiful part of the state. And I loved 107 00:06:42,640 --> 00:06:46,520 Speaker 2: to bring up in California, and my upbringing was wonderful, 108 00:06:46,600 --> 00:06:49,680 Speaker 2: lots of time outside, lots of music. I was the 109 00:06:49,680 --> 00:06:53,040 Speaker 2: youngest of three, so I was outside talking to myself 110 00:06:53,080 --> 00:06:54,800 Speaker 2: a lot, with a big imagination. 111 00:06:57,000 --> 00:07:00,159 Speaker 1: Did you now, your parents got divorced when you were 112 00:07:00,240 --> 00:07:00,919 Speaker 1: quite young. 113 00:07:00,920 --> 00:07:04,520 Speaker 2: Or yeah, like twelve, twelve years old, divorced and remarried. 114 00:07:05,279 --> 00:07:08,679 Speaker 2: Tough time. But I will say they are like best 115 00:07:08,720 --> 00:07:13,120 Speaker 2: friends now both, so it's very It is so normal 116 00:07:13,200 --> 00:07:16,360 Speaker 2: for my mom and dad and their spouses to be 117 00:07:16,400 --> 00:07:18,320 Speaker 2: having dinner together. They do it all the time. 118 00:07:18,440 --> 00:07:22,120 Speaker 1: That's incredibly healthy. And yes, because that must have been 119 00:07:22,160 --> 00:07:26,720 Speaker 1: a difficult time as a twelve year old because your 120 00:07:26,920 --> 00:07:29,400 Speaker 1: siblings were already out of the house by then or 121 00:07:29,760 --> 00:07:31,720 Speaker 1: it just left, so you are sort of like an 122 00:07:31,760 --> 00:07:33,560 Speaker 1: only child going through divorce. 123 00:07:33,760 --> 00:07:36,280 Speaker 2: Yes, when I've talked about it in therapy many times 124 00:07:36,320 --> 00:07:38,440 Speaker 2: over the years, because it sort of feels like that 125 00:07:38,480 --> 00:07:41,120 Speaker 2: thing if you come from a broken home, which seems 126 00:07:41,400 --> 00:07:43,720 Speaker 2: melo dramatic to say it that way, but which so 127 00:07:43,760 --> 00:07:46,360 Speaker 2: many people do you feel like, I don't know, I'm 128 00:07:46,400 --> 00:07:49,240 Speaker 2: forty three now I should be over the fact that 129 00:07:49,240 --> 00:07:52,640 Speaker 2: my parents got divorced. But it really does make an 130 00:07:52,640 --> 00:07:55,960 Speaker 2: impression upon you. It's your whole worldview, and when there's 131 00:07:56,200 --> 00:07:59,680 Speaker 2: a fissure there, it's hard to heal that. I just 132 00:07:59,720 --> 00:08:02,120 Speaker 2: didn't see it coming at all. There was no it 133 00:08:02,240 --> 00:08:04,640 Speaker 2: was not an angry household at all. It was just 134 00:08:05,200 --> 00:08:07,240 Speaker 2: it was just sort of like time to go. 135 00:08:07,680 --> 00:08:10,120 Speaker 1: Who did you turn to with that age? Like who 136 00:08:10,160 --> 00:08:12,080 Speaker 1: are the people in your life that you could rely 137 00:08:12,160 --> 00:08:13,640 Speaker 1: on at that age to process it? 138 00:08:13,680 --> 00:08:16,960 Speaker 2: I think it really was when I started really processing 139 00:08:17,000 --> 00:08:22,400 Speaker 2: through journaling and writing and songs and going inward. I 140 00:08:22,560 --> 00:08:27,600 Speaker 2: wasn't very verbal with my emotions, which I think is 141 00:08:27,640 --> 00:08:31,640 Speaker 2: something that I had to learn the vocabulary about the 142 00:08:31,640 --> 00:08:33,839 Speaker 2: way I was feeling. But I didn't come to that 143 00:08:34,000 --> 00:08:36,000 Speaker 2: till much later in my life, and I would have. 144 00:08:36,200 --> 00:08:39,520 Speaker 2: I think I would have really thrived in a deeper 145 00:08:39,520 --> 00:08:41,640 Speaker 2: way had I had those tools earlier. 146 00:08:42,000 --> 00:08:44,559 Speaker 1: Did you take piano, like piano lessons or singing lessons, 147 00:08:44,679 --> 00:08:48,319 Speaker 1: or have another creative life that you felt was a respite. 148 00:08:49,160 --> 00:08:51,959 Speaker 2: I did play a lot of piano. I took piano 149 00:08:52,040 --> 00:08:54,640 Speaker 2: lessons when I was really young, like nine, and I 150 00:08:54,640 --> 00:08:58,000 Speaker 2: didn't like them very much, and so I stopped. But 151 00:08:58,040 --> 00:08:59,800 Speaker 2: I never fell out of love with the piano. I 152 00:08:59,800 --> 00:09:02,160 Speaker 2: said wanted to play piano all the time. And I 153 00:09:02,160 --> 00:09:04,720 Speaker 2: would come home from school and play for hours and 154 00:09:05,360 --> 00:09:08,600 Speaker 2: write little songs, and I sang in choirs and did 155 00:09:08,640 --> 00:09:12,240 Speaker 2: community theater. I loved being on stage. Theater is really 156 00:09:12,360 --> 00:09:17,080 Speaker 2: the first place where I felt wholly myself. I kind 157 00:09:17,080 --> 00:09:20,600 Speaker 2: of got bullied in school, so school was always a 158 00:09:20,640 --> 00:09:26,240 Speaker 2: little tricky for me, and theater was such a safe space. 159 00:09:26,960 --> 00:09:29,600 Speaker 1: But that's what art really should be, you know, And 160 00:09:29,640 --> 00:09:31,600 Speaker 1: if you can't connect with it, how are you going 161 00:09:31,679 --> 00:09:34,800 Speaker 1: to be able to provide that outlet for someone else? 162 00:09:34,880 --> 00:09:38,320 Speaker 1: And when you went to UCLA, did your world shift 163 00:09:38,400 --> 00:09:40,440 Speaker 1: in a more positive way sort of socially? 164 00:09:40,880 --> 00:09:44,040 Speaker 2: It did, And I mean I loved it. I loved going, 165 00:09:44,080 --> 00:09:47,080 Speaker 2: I loved the independence of college. But it was really 166 00:09:47,120 --> 00:09:49,720 Speaker 2: a culture shock. I never I remember going to LA 167 00:09:49,800 --> 00:09:52,840 Speaker 2: for the first time. I accepted UCLA sight unseen. I 168 00:09:52,960 --> 00:09:55,679 Speaker 2: just I couldn't even believe I got into that school. 169 00:09:56,200 --> 00:09:58,360 Speaker 2: And I wasn't going to go because we didn't We 170 00:09:58,400 --> 00:10:01,199 Speaker 2: didn't have a lot of money and it was expensive. 171 00:10:01,400 --> 00:10:04,160 Speaker 2: And I had an English teacher at the time, Missus Salter, 172 00:10:04,920 --> 00:10:08,080 Speaker 2: who said, you can't get into UCLA and not go 173 00:10:08,120 --> 00:10:10,679 Speaker 2: to UCLA. You have to go, like this is just 174 00:10:10,880 --> 00:10:14,880 Speaker 2: you have to go. And I got little scholarship and 175 00:10:14,920 --> 00:10:17,960 Speaker 2: I got financial aid and I made it to school. 176 00:10:18,000 --> 00:10:19,960 Speaker 2: But I remember going to LA for the first time 177 00:10:20,040 --> 00:10:25,720 Speaker 2: and driving along the beaches and seeing lifeguards in red 178 00:10:25,760 --> 00:10:30,319 Speaker 2: bathing suits like they did on Baywatch, and I thought 179 00:10:30,720 --> 00:10:35,280 Speaker 2: my mind was just blown. It was so much the 180 00:10:35,320 --> 00:10:37,320 Speaker 2: beaches where I grew up are like you put on 181 00:10:37,360 --> 00:10:40,520 Speaker 2: your jeans and your sweatshirts and your boots and it's cold, 182 00:10:40,600 --> 00:10:44,760 Speaker 2: and I just didn't realize how small my world had been. 183 00:10:45,679 --> 00:10:50,200 Speaker 1: How do you have the balls to produce it, to 184 00:10:50,280 --> 00:10:54,920 Speaker 1: self produce your own album? And were you playing gigs 185 00:10:55,040 --> 00:10:55,680 Speaker 1: the whole time? 186 00:10:57,040 --> 00:11:00,400 Speaker 2: Yeah? I you know, I think of that time being 187 00:11:00,480 --> 00:11:04,720 Speaker 2: so sort of blindly courageous. We do things that to 188 00:11:04,800 --> 00:11:08,520 Speaker 2: me now sound insane, but at the time my sort 189 00:11:08,559 --> 00:11:11,520 Speaker 2: of naivete I just didn't know any better, so I 190 00:11:11,800 --> 00:11:15,520 Speaker 2: didn't know enough not to like just go for it. 191 00:11:15,640 --> 00:11:19,120 Speaker 2: And I was in this amazing a cappella group. I 192 00:11:19,200 --> 00:11:21,800 Speaker 2: sang with these but we were a bunch of acapella nerds, 193 00:11:22,280 --> 00:11:24,760 Speaker 2: had the best time. It was like the first time 194 00:11:24,800 --> 00:11:27,080 Speaker 2: I felt like I found my people. And when I 195 00:11:27,080 --> 00:11:30,479 Speaker 2: think about it now, I'm I realize it's so theater adjacent. 196 00:11:31,120 --> 00:11:34,120 Speaker 2: It's like people who just love to collaborate and make 197 00:11:34,160 --> 00:11:37,640 Speaker 2: something together and they love singing together. And it's so 198 00:11:37,880 --> 00:11:42,120 Speaker 2: funny because it's so kind of deeply uncool and it's 199 00:11:42,200 --> 00:11:43,000 Speaker 2: just the coolest. 200 00:11:43,080 --> 00:11:44,960 Speaker 1: At the same time, I think it's the coolest thing 201 00:11:45,040 --> 00:11:49,200 Speaker 1: ever to me too, hearing like singing at an arch 202 00:11:49,720 --> 00:11:52,360 Speaker 1: at Princeton where were the under those arches. It was 203 00:11:52,559 --> 00:11:56,160 Speaker 1: my freshman week. It was the I thought I had 204 00:11:56,200 --> 00:11:59,800 Speaker 1: died and gone to heaven just listening, you know. 205 00:12:00,040 --> 00:12:03,280 Speaker 2: It's just amazing. So I was a part of that group. 206 00:12:03,320 --> 00:12:07,760 Speaker 2: And then I met my friend Gabriel Man, who produced 207 00:12:07,760 --> 00:12:11,040 Speaker 2: that very first record with me. You know, at that times, 208 00:12:11,480 --> 00:12:13,120 Speaker 2: at that time in your life, you're sort of following 209 00:12:13,120 --> 00:12:16,400 Speaker 2: the breadcrumbs. You meet a producer, then you try working 210 00:12:16,440 --> 00:12:18,040 Speaker 2: with them, and then you meet someone through them, and 211 00:12:18,080 --> 00:12:22,280 Speaker 2: you know, someone whose uncle runs a club, and you like, 212 00:12:22,360 --> 00:12:25,000 Speaker 2: can I play at your club? And somebody sees you there. 213 00:12:25,040 --> 00:12:27,040 Speaker 2: You know, just it was very much one foot in 214 00:12:27,080 --> 00:12:27,640 Speaker 2: front of the other. 215 00:12:27,920 --> 00:12:30,160 Speaker 1: Did you have a manager or an ager and anything 216 00:12:30,200 --> 00:12:31,520 Speaker 1: like that or not that early on? 217 00:12:31,600 --> 00:12:34,920 Speaker 2: I played. I played hundreds of shows before I had 218 00:12:34,960 --> 00:12:36,679 Speaker 2: any kind of profession. 219 00:12:36,800 --> 00:12:38,120 Speaker 1: All your own material, Yeah. 220 00:12:38,160 --> 00:12:41,000 Speaker 2: I mean I started my very first gig. I played 221 00:12:41,400 --> 00:12:44,360 Speaker 2: I Will Survive with the drum machine on my keyboard, 222 00:12:44,600 --> 00:12:46,640 Speaker 2: and I don't even think I could really even play 223 00:12:47,360 --> 00:12:51,000 Speaker 2: the chords properly. I think I just was banking on 224 00:12:51,080 --> 00:12:57,000 Speaker 2: the charm of that. But you certainly have you learn, 225 00:12:57,280 --> 00:13:01,120 Speaker 2: you learn the way. Yeah, but yeah, I think you know. 226 00:13:01,200 --> 00:13:05,600 Speaker 2: I pursued music not really as a choice, but it 227 00:13:05,800 --> 00:13:08,200 Speaker 2: just always felt like my calling. 228 00:13:08,760 --> 00:13:12,400 Speaker 1: Did it help like with your confidence in self esteem? 229 00:13:12,520 --> 00:13:15,360 Speaker 2: It was the safest space for me. I mean, it 230 00:13:15,440 --> 00:13:18,400 Speaker 2: was the it was my refuge, it was the place 231 00:13:18,440 --> 00:13:23,080 Speaker 2: I went to feel the most connected spiritually. It's church, 232 00:13:23,160 --> 00:13:24,280 Speaker 2: it's God, it's. 233 00:13:24,400 --> 00:13:25,800 Speaker 1: Is it approval as well? 234 00:13:26,400 --> 00:13:28,360 Speaker 2: I'm sure there's there's some of that. 235 00:13:28,640 --> 00:13:32,080 Speaker 1: I mean self approval, not no, but I from the people. 236 00:13:32,160 --> 00:13:35,360 Speaker 2: But I actually think it's both. It's like when you're 237 00:13:35,400 --> 00:13:39,200 Speaker 2: doing something that actually feels like in your soul, you 238 00:13:39,600 --> 00:13:43,199 Speaker 2: can feel that sense of alignment where it's like it's 239 00:13:43,240 --> 00:13:45,400 Speaker 2: not in question should I be doing this or not. 240 00:13:45,520 --> 00:13:47,480 Speaker 2: It's just like I didn't need to ask someone else 241 00:13:47,520 --> 00:13:52,040 Speaker 2: that I felt so myself playing music. But it is 242 00:13:52,120 --> 00:13:56,119 Speaker 2: also the validation of you know, people on the outside 243 00:13:56,559 --> 00:13:59,960 Speaker 2: acknowledging why you have a real gift, or I heard 244 00:14:00,080 --> 00:14:02,000 Speaker 2: you once, I wanted to come back and see you again. 245 00:14:02,120 --> 00:14:05,760 Speaker 2: And those are another set of breadcrumbs you follow. 246 00:14:06,400 --> 00:14:10,120 Speaker 1: And how does self doubt not creep back in. 247 00:14:10,880 --> 00:14:13,720 Speaker 2: Oh honey, I got it. It's in my back pocket today. 248 00:14:13,840 --> 00:14:17,880 Speaker 2: It's always with I mean, I don't know, I'll mind 249 00:14:17,960 --> 00:14:22,200 Speaker 2: for you. I don't. I have stopped trying to omit 250 00:14:22,840 --> 00:14:27,760 Speaker 2: that sense from myself. I just it's not going to 251 00:14:27,840 --> 00:14:30,160 Speaker 2: go anywhere. I just have to like make peace with it. 252 00:14:30,440 --> 00:14:32,600 Speaker 2: I'm always going to doubt. When I did into the 253 00:14:32,640 --> 00:14:34,760 Speaker 2: Woods most recently, I'm just like, can I do this? 254 00:14:34,880 --> 00:14:38,320 Speaker 2: I put full meltdown just being like, I can't sing this, 255 00:14:38,480 --> 00:14:40,800 Speaker 2: I can't do this, I can't be on. I don't 256 00:14:40,880 --> 00:14:43,120 Speaker 2: know what I'm doing and got thrown in the deep end. 257 00:14:43,240 --> 00:14:46,080 Speaker 2: Everybody else knows what they're doing. That just comes in 258 00:14:46,160 --> 00:14:49,160 Speaker 2: the suitcase of being a human, I think, And you 259 00:14:49,280 --> 00:14:51,200 Speaker 2: have to just do it anyway. You have to be 260 00:14:51,440 --> 00:14:54,400 Speaker 2: feel all that fear, feel all that insecurity, and the 261 00:14:54,440 --> 00:14:56,440 Speaker 2: only mistake is if you let it keep you from 262 00:14:56,440 --> 00:14:58,000 Speaker 2: doing the thing you really want to be doing. And 263 00:14:58,120 --> 00:14:58,800 Speaker 2: I think. 264 00:15:06,160 --> 00:15:08,840 Speaker 1: I'm interested in how you got your start at Epic Records. 265 00:15:09,320 --> 00:15:13,320 Speaker 1: How did that happen? They saw you were approached to. 266 00:15:14,120 --> 00:15:17,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, I had started working with my manager. He has 267 00:15:17,320 --> 00:15:19,960 Speaker 2: since passed away. His name is Jordan Feldstein, but he 268 00:15:20,000 --> 00:15:22,800 Speaker 2: also represented Maroon five at the time, and I went 269 00:15:22,840 --> 00:15:24,720 Speaker 2: to college with a couple of the band members from 270 00:15:24,760 --> 00:15:27,080 Speaker 2: Run five, so they've been my friends since college. And 271 00:15:27,320 --> 00:15:31,120 Speaker 2: they took me on tour and Jordan started representing me, 272 00:15:31,920 --> 00:15:35,600 Speaker 2: and over the next let's say year or so, I 273 00:15:35,640 --> 00:15:37,800 Speaker 2: played a lot of shows in LA and he set 274 00:15:37,880 --> 00:15:42,520 Speaker 2: up showcases for me with major record labels, and everybody passed. 275 00:15:42,880 --> 00:15:45,160 Speaker 2: Nobody wanted to work with me. I don't think anyone 276 00:15:45,200 --> 00:15:47,800 Speaker 2: knew what to do with me. And then there was 277 00:15:48,520 --> 00:15:51,880 Speaker 2: a guy named Daniel Davis who worked at Epic Records 278 00:15:51,880 --> 00:15:55,000 Speaker 2: at the time, who brought out my A and R. 279 00:15:55,080 --> 00:15:57,240 Speaker 2: Guy who came and saw me at a show that 280 00:15:57,280 --> 00:15:59,360 Speaker 2: I didn't know anybody had come to see. So I 281 00:15:59,360 --> 00:16:03,280 Speaker 2: feel like he got to see myself in my at 282 00:16:03,320 --> 00:16:07,800 Speaker 2: my most expanded and my most natural. And so then yeah, 283 00:16:07,840 --> 00:16:10,000 Speaker 2: signed with Epic Records. So I'm still signed with Epic Records. 284 00:16:10,040 --> 00:16:13,880 Speaker 2: They've been an amazing partner. We've had a huge, long history. 285 00:16:14,760 --> 00:16:18,680 Speaker 2: It's like one of the crazy, rare, super positive stories 286 00:16:18,720 --> 00:16:22,240 Speaker 2: of a major label just being kind of an awesome partner. 287 00:16:22,960 --> 00:16:26,120 Speaker 1: And you mentioned early on and some of the articles 288 00:16:26,120 --> 00:16:30,440 Speaker 1: I read that they did at one point try to 289 00:16:30,760 --> 00:16:33,320 Speaker 1: sort of box you in How did you respond to 290 00:16:33,400 --> 00:16:36,640 Speaker 1: that and how did you get them to come along 291 00:16:36,680 --> 00:16:38,880 Speaker 1: with you on the what you wanted to do? 292 00:16:39,960 --> 00:16:44,360 Speaker 2: I think it was a combination of you know, the 293 00:16:44,440 --> 00:16:49,240 Speaker 2: song Love Song was written sort of as a pep 294 00:16:49,320 --> 00:16:54,120 Speaker 2: talk to myself because I could feel myself trying to 295 00:16:54,640 --> 00:16:57,400 Speaker 2: give them what I thought they wanted. What I knew 296 00:16:58,000 --> 00:17:00,160 Speaker 2: the record label was waiting for was a song that 297 00:17:00,160 --> 00:17:02,640 Speaker 2: they could go to radio with. And I felt like, 298 00:17:02,760 --> 00:17:04,920 Speaker 2: I have all these songs, Let me go into the studio, 299 00:17:05,000 --> 00:17:07,120 Speaker 2: let me make my record, And I wasn't really getting 300 00:17:07,160 --> 00:17:07,760 Speaker 2: the green light. 301 00:17:08,000 --> 00:17:09,400 Speaker 1: Does that mean more pop song? 302 00:17:09,560 --> 00:17:13,360 Speaker 2: Is that that pop song something that they could I'm 303 00:17:13,359 --> 00:17:15,720 Speaker 2: trying to remember the kinds of things that were on 304 00:17:15,760 --> 00:17:18,159 Speaker 2: the radio at that time. But I could just feel 305 00:17:18,200 --> 00:17:21,760 Speaker 2: that there was not enough excitement for like the material. 306 00:17:22,480 --> 00:17:26,000 Speaker 2: And I went to my music studio, which was a 307 00:17:26,160 --> 00:17:28,800 Speaker 2: storage unit that I shared with my friends in Raining 308 00:17:28,880 --> 00:17:30,840 Speaker 2: Jane and other band. So we had one of those 309 00:17:30,960 --> 00:17:36,040 Speaker 2: tincam like startine cam roll down garage doors with all 310 00:17:36,080 --> 00:17:38,000 Speaker 2: of our stuff stored in there. And I was there 311 00:17:38,400 --> 00:17:41,280 Speaker 2: and I wrote love song, and I wrote it kind 312 00:17:41,280 --> 00:17:44,560 Speaker 2: of just to myself. I was like, I said a 313 00:17:44,560 --> 00:17:48,480 Speaker 2: prayer I'm like, dear God, just let me remember me 314 00:17:49,000 --> 00:17:51,480 Speaker 2: in all of this. There was just so much noise 315 00:17:51,640 --> 00:17:56,560 Speaker 2: and so much feedback and so many opinions and love 316 00:17:56,640 --> 00:17:59,359 Speaker 2: song sort of poured out of me, and I was 317 00:18:00,840 --> 00:18:05,439 Speaker 2: convinced they would hate it, and they loved it, and 318 00:18:05,480 --> 00:18:10,080 Speaker 2: then to everyone's surprise, including myself, it was like a 319 00:18:10,119 --> 00:18:10,600 Speaker 2: big hit. 320 00:18:10,960 --> 00:18:14,480 Speaker 1: I mean, every single aspect of it just sounds like 321 00:18:14,480 --> 00:18:17,520 Speaker 1: it was meant to be. And thank God that they 322 00:18:18,400 --> 00:18:20,960 Speaker 1: for whatever reason that they liked it. Do you know 323 00:18:20,960 --> 00:18:21,400 Speaker 1: what I mean? 324 00:18:21,480 --> 00:18:23,520 Speaker 2: It, yes, totally in a. 325 00:18:23,520 --> 00:18:27,280 Speaker 1: Way does not matter. But you know, thank God, because 326 00:18:27,320 --> 00:18:30,160 Speaker 1: you don't hear stories like that, and you know, and 327 00:18:30,760 --> 00:18:35,200 Speaker 1: you talk about how sort of obliterating the process can be. 328 00:18:35,440 --> 00:18:38,040 Speaker 2: How much rejection, Oh God, it's terrible. 329 00:18:38,200 --> 00:18:40,960 Speaker 1: And now what you're doing, which I find really fascinating, 330 00:18:41,160 --> 00:18:44,240 Speaker 1: is you have a new show which is an audio 331 00:18:44,520 --> 00:18:50,440 Speaker 1: only singing competition chets, and it's called Breakthrough. Yes, can 332 00:18:50,480 --> 00:18:52,520 Speaker 1: you talk a little bit more about that? Because I 333 00:18:52,560 --> 00:18:54,399 Speaker 1: wish that there was a show like that that you 334 00:18:54,440 --> 00:18:55,240 Speaker 1: could have gone on. 335 00:18:55,400 --> 00:18:57,560 Speaker 2: A thousand percent. I mean, I wish there was a 336 00:18:57,600 --> 00:19:00,960 Speaker 2: show like that I could have listened to. This audible 337 00:19:01,040 --> 00:19:06,440 Speaker 2: came with this idea, myself and Kelly Rowland as mentors. 338 00:19:06,920 --> 00:19:09,800 Speaker 2: We even sort of shy away a little bit from 339 00:19:09,840 --> 00:19:13,120 Speaker 2: the word judge, because it really is like a mentorship 340 00:19:13,160 --> 00:19:18,840 Speaker 2: program for these handful of artists who are singer songwriters, 341 00:19:19,600 --> 00:19:24,960 Speaker 2: and the entire podcast, as podcasts are generally, is done 342 00:19:25,480 --> 00:19:29,640 Speaker 2: with no visuals. So I met these contestants last night 343 00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:35,200 Speaker 2: when we recorded our final episode, so I finally saw 344 00:19:35,240 --> 00:19:38,080 Speaker 2: their faces after spending weeks and weeks and hours and 345 00:19:38,160 --> 00:19:40,440 Speaker 2: hours on the phone with them and talking through their 346 00:19:40,480 --> 00:19:45,760 Speaker 2: material and discussing their work and giving feedback. And I 347 00:19:45,840 --> 00:19:50,960 Speaker 2: love this format because it feels very nostalgic. It's the 348 00:19:51,000 --> 00:19:53,960 Speaker 2: way I used to listen to music with my headphones on. 349 00:19:54,640 --> 00:19:58,680 Speaker 2: Reading the lyrics, I wasn't watching a screen, I wasn't 350 00:19:58,720 --> 00:20:03,000 Speaker 2: taking anything in. It was just about what is the 351 00:20:03,040 --> 00:20:07,160 Speaker 2: story I'm being told? And is emotion being conveyed through 352 00:20:07,200 --> 00:20:10,480 Speaker 2: the vocal performance, through the actual craft of the song. 353 00:20:11,080 --> 00:20:13,359 Speaker 1: Is there a moment that took your breath away? 354 00:20:14,000 --> 00:20:18,560 Speaker 2: Yes, there's a few moments. Actually, one of our artists, 355 00:20:18,840 --> 00:20:23,760 Speaker 2: he's a Southern guy, works mostly in country music, and 356 00:20:24,400 --> 00:20:28,520 Speaker 2: he really kind of hit rock bottom going through this 357 00:20:28,600 --> 00:20:31,840 Speaker 2: process with us, and he talked about starting therapy and 358 00:20:31,920 --> 00:20:35,640 Speaker 2: starting to really do the work that he needed to do. 359 00:20:35,760 --> 00:20:40,160 Speaker 2: And I found that to be so moving because it's 360 00:20:40,240 --> 00:20:42,879 Speaker 2: unusual for a guy in his position to sort of 361 00:20:43,600 --> 00:20:47,199 Speaker 2: admit that vulnerability and then to pour it into his work. 362 00:20:48,480 --> 00:20:50,760 Speaker 2: So I was so moved by that was very emotional. Actually, 363 00:20:50,960 --> 00:20:54,080 Speaker 2: I mean, we're listening to these people who have in 364 00:20:54,080 --> 00:20:56,840 Speaker 2: some cases really given up on the dream that this 365 00:20:56,960 --> 00:21:01,000 Speaker 2: is even possible for them, and then finding another moment 366 00:21:01,040 --> 00:21:05,160 Speaker 2: where they feel like it's within their reach. It's really extraordinary, 367 00:21:05,200 --> 00:21:08,320 Speaker 2: and you really come to love them. They're really lovable people. 368 00:21:16,240 --> 00:21:21,000 Speaker 1: I so appreciate your vulnerability, not just in music, but 369 00:21:21,119 --> 00:21:24,120 Speaker 1: in so many of the things that you do. You've 370 00:21:24,160 --> 00:21:27,439 Speaker 1: spoken about being bullied and feeling not good enough, feeling 371 00:21:27,440 --> 00:21:30,879 Speaker 1: insecure about your body. Yeah, all of these things that 372 00:21:30,920 --> 00:21:33,280 Speaker 1: I think are so much more common than people are 373 00:21:33,280 --> 00:21:36,600 Speaker 1: willing to admit, and I'm interested in how you've managed 374 00:21:36,680 --> 00:21:39,760 Speaker 1: those feelings. Have you come to love yourself more and 375 00:21:39,920 --> 00:21:40,920 Speaker 1: judge yourself less? 376 00:21:41,520 --> 00:21:47,879 Speaker 2: Yes, I have gotten closer to self acceptance. I usually 377 00:21:48,080 --> 00:21:51,879 Speaker 2: just feel, you know, I get into these very tight 378 00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:56,600 Speaker 2: spaces within my own mind, and the answer is never 379 00:21:57,359 --> 00:22:00,359 Speaker 2: to be tougher on yourself or more just a plan 380 00:22:00,600 --> 00:22:07,199 Speaker 2: or harder consequences. It's always compassion and tenderness. It's really 381 00:22:07,240 --> 00:22:10,520 Speaker 2: the thing that moves the needle. Can you just beat 382 00:22:11,080 --> 00:22:14,679 Speaker 2: a little bit more your own friend? Of course we fail, 383 00:22:14,760 --> 00:22:17,800 Speaker 2: and of course we come up short, but no need 384 00:22:17,840 --> 00:22:20,159 Speaker 2: to pour salt in the wound. Let's just say. 385 00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:23,720 Speaker 1: It's funny how I'm so quick to do that for 386 00:22:23,800 --> 00:22:24,560 Speaker 1: other people. 387 00:22:24,440 --> 00:22:27,119 Speaker 2: Too, But always with ourselves. It's so hard, right. 388 00:22:27,119 --> 00:22:31,160 Speaker 1: Never with myself, I know. But music is such a deeply, 389 00:22:31,600 --> 00:22:38,159 Speaker 1: deeply personal it's so personal to you, and it really 390 00:22:38,280 --> 00:22:43,600 Speaker 1: is a safe place for you to speak your truth. 391 00:22:43,640 --> 00:22:48,440 Speaker 1: And I'm curious if there's something that you perhaps haven't 392 00:22:48,520 --> 00:22:52,439 Speaker 1: yet said through your music that you're hoping to. 393 00:22:52,800 --> 00:22:58,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think in the sense that you're always making 394 00:22:58,560 --> 00:23:03,640 Speaker 2: new discoveries about yourself and always getting to know yourself 395 00:23:03,680 --> 00:23:07,240 Speaker 2: a little bit better. There's certainly things that I feel 396 00:23:07,920 --> 00:23:13,320 Speaker 2: at forty three that I wasn't quite awake to in 397 00:23:13,359 --> 00:23:15,400 Speaker 2: my thirties or in my twenties. 398 00:23:15,480 --> 00:23:19,200 Speaker 1: Like what like an example of one of those things. 399 00:23:19,720 --> 00:23:23,560 Speaker 2: The Trump presidency was really, uh, just a game changer. 400 00:23:23,920 --> 00:23:26,359 Speaker 2: And in some ways it sounds insane to say, but 401 00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:29,399 Speaker 2: I'm almost grateful for it because I just realized how 402 00:23:30,280 --> 00:23:34,080 Speaker 2: unconscious I was about so many things. So I'm grateful 403 00:23:34,160 --> 00:23:38,560 Speaker 2: to be awake in a way that I wasn't. But 404 00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:43,560 Speaker 2: there's a tremendous amount of grief that comes with the 405 00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:47,520 Speaker 2: realization of what feels like it's been unearthed in this 406 00:23:47,560 --> 00:23:49,400 Speaker 2: new way. I know these things have always been here, 407 00:23:49,440 --> 00:23:53,720 Speaker 2: but you know, the pandemic. Was really disappointed with how 408 00:23:53,760 --> 00:23:59,119 Speaker 2: we showed up as a human race, really bummed, and 409 00:23:59,160 --> 00:24:03,280 Speaker 2: I felt like we missed an opportunity to grow towards 410 00:24:03,320 --> 00:24:05,600 Speaker 2: each other. It was like this brief moment when it 411 00:24:05,720 --> 00:24:08,960 Speaker 2: first happened, like the streets were empty, and I felt 412 00:24:08,960 --> 00:24:12,320 Speaker 2: like the empty streets were evidence of love, were taking 413 00:24:12,359 --> 00:24:16,160 Speaker 2: care of each other, and then you know, shit hits 414 00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:16,440 Speaker 2: the fan. 415 00:24:16,840 --> 00:24:18,240 Speaker 1: Do you think we can get back there? 416 00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:20,639 Speaker 2: I think you have to believe we can. And I 417 00:24:20,640 --> 00:24:24,439 Speaker 2: think always it's like you solve the macro with the micro. 418 00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:28,040 Speaker 2: We might not be able to save this entire world 419 00:24:28,080 --> 00:24:35,520 Speaker 2: with one email or one song, but every action causes 420 00:24:35,520 --> 00:24:39,919 Speaker 2: a ripple, even if it's to my dog, to the 421 00:24:39,920 --> 00:24:43,320 Speaker 2: male person, to the you know, it's how we engage 422 00:24:43,320 --> 00:24:46,399 Speaker 2: with the world. In your little whatever, your little bubble, 423 00:24:46,480 --> 00:24:48,919 Speaker 2: is I think that really matters. 424 00:24:49,320 --> 00:24:53,240 Speaker 1: I think it does really matter. I always love to 425 00:24:53,280 --> 00:24:57,240 Speaker 1: ask my my friends that come on, because now I'm 426 00:24:57,240 --> 00:25:03,359 Speaker 1: going to tell everybody. But we talk about now what moments, 427 00:25:03,359 --> 00:25:05,320 Speaker 1: and I'm just curious if there have been any now 428 00:25:05,359 --> 00:25:08,919 Speaker 1: what moments that resonate with you that you haven't shared 429 00:25:09,080 --> 00:25:10,040 Speaker 1: or cared to share. 430 00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:14,920 Speaker 2: Oh my god, so many many. I moved in with 431 00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:19,440 Speaker 2: my fiance Joe, congratulations and thank you. And we were 432 00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:22,600 Speaker 2: living together before, but I left Manhattan, so now we're 433 00:25:22,600 --> 00:25:26,119 Speaker 2: in Brooklyn. And let me tell you, I have not 434 00:25:26,320 --> 00:25:29,040 Speaker 2: dealt with this very gracefully. I'm not good at moving. 435 00:25:29,160 --> 00:25:31,760 Speaker 2: I hate it. I feel totally disoriented. 436 00:25:31,840 --> 00:25:34,800 Speaker 1: I hate every boxes behind. 437 00:25:35,160 --> 00:25:38,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, we're not even a little bit unpacked. I don't 438 00:25:38,560 --> 00:25:41,240 Speaker 2: know where my underwear is. It's like a whole nightmare. 439 00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:46,879 Speaker 2: But I had this conversation with myself this morning. It's 440 00:25:46,920 --> 00:25:50,320 Speaker 2: a little bit like I am uncomfortable right now. I'm 441 00:25:50,359 --> 00:25:54,720 Speaker 2: really uncomfortable. It's a really busy time and it's all 442 00:25:54,840 --> 00:25:57,680 Speaker 2: champagne problems, but it's like it's a really busy time 443 00:25:57,800 --> 00:26:01,399 Speaker 2: and I'm really uncomfortable in this very fundamental way, and 444 00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:03,399 Speaker 2: I just have to surrender. 445 00:26:03,800 --> 00:26:09,120 Speaker 1: I mean, one of the most traumatic things. Isn't it 446 00:26:09,160 --> 00:26:09,600 Speaker 1: one of them? 447 00:26:09,640 --> 00:26:10,120 Speaker 2: Is I think? 448 00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:12,680 Speaker 1: I mean, isn't that the most like a life stressor 449 00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:16,280 Speaker 1: Growing up my mom never moved into any house that 450 00:26:16,320 --> 00:26:20,000 Speaker 1: we lived in. She never fully moved in, but she 451 00:26:20,119 --> 00:26:23,640 Speaker 1: kept buying houses and we bought houses everywhere with this 452 00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:28,120 Speaker 1: idea that potentially we were gonna have a fire and 453 00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:32,040 Speaker 1: have a meal there, and and so for me, if 454 00:26:32,119 --> 00:26:36,280 Speaker 1: things are not unpacked by panic and it's such a 455 00:26:36,359 --> 00:26:38,959 Speaker 1: source of stress, that makes so much sense. 456 00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:42,119 Speaker 2: I say this to my sister all the time, is that, 457 00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:47,560 Speaker 2: like our life, your life is happening right now. It's 458 00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:50,600 Speaker 2: not out there in the future like we're not. We're 459 00:26:50,600 --> 00:26:53,359 Speaker 2: not like trying to get to our lives somewhere in 460 00:26:53,359 --> 00:26:56,160 Speaker 2: the future. It's like, it's this, it's this room right now, 461 00:26:56,200 --> 00:26:59,640 Speaker 2: it's these boxes. So like, do your best with what's 462 00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:02,480 Speaker 2: right around you. It'll be present to what's really here. 463 00:27:03,040 --> 00:27:05,399 Speaker 1: And that's you know, it's easier said than done, But 464 00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:09,520 Speaker 1: when you do revel in it, it's amazing how long 465 00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:13,480 Speaker 1: those periods of time do feel. You know, they do 466 00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:16,880 Speaker 1: feel expansive. You've mentioned that you've learned a lot about 467 00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:19,919 Speaker 1: yourself just in sort of recent years. Is there a 468 00:27:20,040 --> 00:27:21,800 Speaker 1: takeaway from the last decade. 469 00:27:22,440 --> 00:27:27,320 Speaker 2: I think the most I have learned and the best 470 00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:31,120 Speaker 2: I have ever felt was doing the things that scared 471 00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:36,440 Speaker 2: me the most, Like being comfortable is just not that interesting, 472 00:27:37,080 --> 00:27:39,320 Speaker 2: you know when I think about examples in the theater 473 00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:43,560 Speaker 2: or like I just was on We've just finished filming 474 00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:45,879 Speaker 2: our third season now of a TV show called Girls 475 00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:49,560 Speaker 2: five EV. But I'd never done television before, and I 476 00:27:49,680 --> 00:27:54,399 Speaker 2: was working with really seasoned, incredible actresses, and it was 477 00:27:54,440 --> 00:27:57,199 Speaker 2: a huge responsibility and I didn't want to fail. I 478 00:27:57,240 --> 00:28:00,000 Speaker 2: didn't want to be bad at it. But it takes time. 479 00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:02,560 Speaker 2: I'm you know, I can I can see my growth 480 00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:04,920 Speaker 2: from season one to season two to season three. It's 481 00:28:04,960 --> 00:28:08,800 Speaker 2: like we have to be willing to still learn. Like 482 00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:11,840 Speaker 2: you were saying, there's so much to learn about everything. 483 00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:16,160 Speaker 2: You don't have to be perfect at everything to engage 484 00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:19,200 Speaker 2: with it. It's nice. It shouldn't be enough to keep 485 00:28:19,240 --> 00:28:21,360 Speaker 2: you away from it if it's something you really want 486 00:28:21,359 --> 00:28:21,560 Speaker 2: to do. 487 00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:26,600 Speaker 1: Did saying yes to getting engaged terrify you? Or did 488 00:28:26,680 --> 00:28:28,159 Speaker 1: you was it exciting? 489 00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:30,440 Speaker 2: Well, it took us a long time to get there. 490 00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:34,720 Speaker 2: I actually it didn't terrify me, which was it did 491 00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:37,760 Speaker 2: terrifiz if it's a long It terrified me for a 492 00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:41,440 Speaker 2: long time, and then I started to realize I had 493 00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:44,280 Speaker 2: this image of what it meant to be married. You know, 494 00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:46,880 Speaker 2: I come from a divorced household. I come from obviously 495 00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:52,560 Speaker 2: people were it wasn't they weren't fully themselves, and I 496 00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:55,080 Speaker 2: didn't want to repeat those mistakes. I didn't want to 497 00:28:55,120 --> 00:28:57,440 Speaker 2: feel diminished. I didn't want to feel like I had 498 00:28:57,480 --> 00:29:01,920 Speaker 2: to give up independence. I'm incredible autonomous. I love being 499 00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:06,400 Speaker 2: alone in the world. So building a family together we 500 00:29:06,440 --> 00:29:08,479 Speaker 2: have them looking at my little dog right here at 501 00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:12,840 Speaker 2: my feet, and like, building this little world together in 502 00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:17,040 Speaker 2: some ways felt like I was giving something up, and yes, 503 00:29:17,120 --> 00:29:20,520 Speaker 2: you are, but also you gain an incredible amount. 504 00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:28,320 Speaker 1: That was the soulful Sarah Burrells. Be sure to check 505 00:29:28,360 --> 00:29:32,080 Speaker 1: out her new series Breakthrough, which is available now on Audible. 506 00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:35,280 Speaker 1: That's it for us today, Talk to you next week. 507 00:29:39,040 --> 00:29:39,240 Speaker 2: Now. 508 00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:42,959 Speaker 1: What with Brooke Shields is a production of iHeartRadio. Our 509 00:29:43,040 --> 00:29:47,200 Speaker 1: lead producer and wonderful showrunner is Julia Weaver. Additional research 510 00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:51,760 Speaker 1: and editing by Darby Masters and Abu Zafar. Our executive 511 00:29:51,800 --> 00:29:56,800 Speaker 1: producer is Christina Everett. The show is mixed by Vahid Fraser.