Speaker 1: Hey everyone, it's me James, and just before you hear
Speaker 1: the episode, i'd want to warn you that you can
Speaker 1: hear our telephones going absolutely mental for much of this episode.
Speaker 1: That's because as we were recording, people have found out
Speaker 1: that SDG and E San Diego Gas Electric were restricting
Speaker 1: access to one of the sites where migrants were.
Speaker 2: In need of aid.
Speaker 1: People were very concerned about that, so they were reaching
Speaker 1: out to James and Jacqueline and Pedro to ask for
Speaker 1: assistance and to me to let me know if I
Speaker 1: could get the word out. That's why you can hear
Speaker 1: our phones going crazy, and I think it's good that
Speaker 1: it's in there in a sense because perhaps you can
Speaker 1: get a sense of how mad the last few weeks
Speaker 1: have been for everyone. Our phones have constantly be going off.
Speaker 1: I'm sure mine a lot less than James and Jacquelines
Speaker 1: and Pedros because people are overwhelmed and they need more
Speaker 1: help than we were able to give. So consider that
Speaker 1: background noise a blessing and I hope you enjoyed the episode.
Speaker 2: Thanks.
Speaker 1: Hi everyone, it's me James today and I hear again
Speaker 1: to talk about the border today. I'm joined by some guests.
Speaker 1: I'm joined by James and Jacqueline from Border Kindness, who
Speaker 1: we've heard from before, and I'm also joined by Pedro
Speaker 1: Rias from the American French Service Committee. If you guys
Speaker 1: would like to introduce yourself and explain the kind of
Speaker 1: role you play along the border, that'd be wonderful if
Speaker 1: we start with Pedro, because folks haven't heard from him before,
Speaker 1: that would be great.
Speaker 3: Great.
Speaker 4: Thank you James, and it's such an honor to be
Speaker 4: on the show together with folks from Border Kindness, James
Speaker 4: and Jacqueline. It's great to see you again. My name
Speaker 4: is Pedro Rios. I'm director of the American Friend Service
Speaker 4: Committee's US Mexico Border Program, which is a Quaker based
Speaker 4: human rights organization. I've been on staff now for twenty
Speaker 4: years working in San Diego on border issues and it's
Speaker 4: been a whorldwind of two decades of work being able
Speaker 4: to follow this topic. Our work primarily focuses on border
Speaker 4: issues and we have four components, one of which is
Speaker 4: documenting civil and human rights abuses that occur when contact
Speaker 4: goes awry between primary federal immigration authorities with members of
Speaker 4: civil society, including migrants and order community residents. Documentation could
Speaker 4: be case evolving abuse of practices, abuse of policies, cases
Speaker 4: evolving abuse of authority, and so on and so forth.
Speaker 4: We also do a lot of policy analysis and advocacy
Speaker 4: at the local level, at the state level, and at
Speaker 4: the federal level, trying to hold agencies accountable, making them
Speaker 4: more transparent, ensuring that there are oversight mechanisms and how
Speaker 4: they operate. And that's done in conjunction with several coalitions
Speaker 4: at the county wide level in San Diego, but also
Speaker 4: at the national level with the Southern Border Communities Coalition
Speaker 4: and other organizations as well. And then we obviously work
Speaker 4: in allyship with a lot of other organizations that have
Speaker 4: campaigns of mutual interest, some of which have been going
Speaker 4: on for a long time, such as the Friends of
Speaker 4: Friendship Park and trying to gain access public access to
Speaker 4: Friendship Park, which currently is being impacted by the construction
Speaker 4: of two thirty foot border walls. And we also work
Speaker 4: directly with community members and providing information about what the
Speaker 4: rights are, how they can become and our leaders in
Speaker 4: their own communities, and how they can be active in
Speaker 4: straightening their communities and providing guidance to other people who
Speaker 4: might be in the same circumstances. So in a nutshell,
Speaker 4: that's the work that we do.
Speaker 2: Yeah, great, it's very important work.
Speaker 1: And then James and Jacqueline, do you want to explain
Speaker 1: Folks are familiar I think with border kindness from the
Speaker 1: pre this episode, but like, maybe what have you been
Speaker 1: doing in the last I can't remember two weeks like
Speaker 1: since people started being held out in the open again.
Speaker 5: So in our organizations kind of always evolving with like
Speaker 5: the evolving needs of the border, and over the last
Speaker 5: I want to say, like years in particular, we've really
Speaker 5: started to emphasize our services being present in the rural border.
Speaker 5: We're based in Mahikali, primarily, our water drops are generally
Speaker 5: in the Imperial Valley region, and we started to extend
Speaker 5: our services to the rural community in San Diego County
Speaker 5: with regards to like day labor, providing aid to micro
Speaker 5: community that's living in rural communities. So all that to say,
Speaker 5: when the border appeared to be having one of its
Speaker 5: episodes of chaos, what's happened in the last couple of
Speaker 5: weeks with folk being detained between the walls down in
Speaker 5: sanny Siedrol and then folks being you know, just dumped
Speaker 5: out into the street at the transit centers if we've
Speaker 5: been seeing all over Sandygo County. We sort of held
Speaker 5: off because we knew this was going to happen in Hakuma.
Speaker 5: This is kind of one of those sixth sense kind
Speaker 5: of things, like when you see the writing on the
Speaker 5: wall and it was like only a matter of time
Speaker 5: before people ended up pushed into rural San Diego County,
Speaker 5: and unfortunately that has been the case. So we were
Speaker 5: actually out in the desert doing a water drop and
Speaker 5: heard that that impact had occurred and there were hundreds
Speaker 5: of people in Hakkumba. So we've been out there providing
Speaker 5: aid ever since.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so perhaps we could describe these. So there are
Speaker 1: like three things I think people would benefit from knowing about.
Speaker 1: One is the detention of people between the walls in
Speaker 1: sanny Cedral, which I think Pedro has seen a lot
Speaker 1: of I've seen and we've seen each other down there
Speaker 1: several days. The detention of folks in the open desert
Speaker 1: in Hakumba, and this this dumping of migrant to various
Speaker 1: transit centers across the county. Those are the three things
Speaker 1: a week we've seen, like in massive numbers.
Speaker 2: This last couple of.
Speaker 1: Weeks, so preps, we could start with explaining her Cumba
Speaker 1: and then Pedro can take on explaining the other two
Speaker 1: because I know he's been responding to those. So can
Speaker 1: you just tell us, like what you saw, the number
Speaker 1: of people, the conditions in which they're being held, and
Speaker 1: that kind of stuff.
Speaker 6: Yeah. Usually, well we're seeing now. I mean now it's
Speaker 6: currently what today? What isday?
Speaker 2: Wednesday? So I know it is.
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, well this morning I asked Jacke on what
Speaker 6: day it was, because it just seems like a broken blur,
Speaker 6: you know, the day out. But we are on Wednesday night.
Speaker 6: That's Saturday, Sunday, Monday, Tuesday. Every day so far we
Speaker 6: have noticed a revolving door of roughly two and fifty
Speaker 6: spread out between one to three camps every day. There's
Speaker 6: a camp on the east side in Hokomba, There's a
Speaker 6: camp that's on the west side of Hokkumba, and then
Speaker 6: there's a camp that's just outside Hokomba and Boulevard that
Speaker 6: seems to be the biggest camp right now. That camp
Speaker 6: is the largest one because it's kind of hidden. You
Speaker 6: got to drive down from the main highway. You have
Speaker 6: to drive, you know, at least fifteen minutes you know,
Speaker 6: down some dirt roads, back roads, you know, past ranches
Speaker 6: and stuff like that to get to that open air camp,
Speaker 6: where the other ones, especially like we saw in May,
Speaker 6: were more like wide open, closer to the towns, closer
Speaker 6: to visibility, closer to highway access. And so what we've
Speaker 6: noticed is that that speaking with the locals and seeing
Speaker 6: for ourselves that every day the camps that are more
Speaker 6: visible are having less people coming in and they're being
Speaker 6: taken out faster. And so that part, I think is,
Speaker 6: you know, could be done for a multitude of reasons.
Speaker 6: But the camp that's hidden and out of you is
Speaker 6: the one that seems kind of strategic and seems calculated
Speaker 6: on a greater level that as people are being loaded
Speaker 6: up on vans or buses to be taken out for processing,
Speaker 6: almost the same amount of people gets walked in to
Speaker 6: that camp from the actual border by border patrol. So
Speaker 6: it it's definitely an odd situation that's going on there.
Speaker 6: It seems definitely calculated orchestrated and something that you know,
Speaker 6: we feel that will be going on for quite a while.
Speaker 1: Yeah, let's let me talk about that, right, Like people
Speaker 1: are crossing and then being being transported, like you say,
Speaker 1: on foot by Border Patrol to the camp. That's your understanding,
Speaker 1: right to that camp in in near Boulevard.
Speaker 2: I'll say, I don't want to give the exact.
Speaker 6: Location, correct, Yes, So we witnessed that as well. We
Speaker 6: witnessed on Monday night that we were there to help
Speaker 6: distribute food and warm supplies, and I think a total
Speaker 6: of five or six Border Patrol vans had, you know,
Speaker 6: about one hundred people or so lined up and loaded
Speaker 6: up onto those vans. And then right as they were
Speaker 6: getting ready to have the last two vans leave, we
Speaker 6: saw in the distance, in the opposite direction, Order Patrol
Speaker 6: their truck driving behind a group of roughly eighty eighty
Speaker 6: five new migrants coming in on foot. Yeah, right around
Speaker 6: there's a gap in the fence.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I saw people walking in. I was there the
Speaker 1: day before you guys, So I was early as I
Speaker 1: was the early Monday morning, and I saw the same thing,
Speaker 1: like you know, sort of just after dawn. I couldn't
Speaker 1: make out who was walking home just because it was dark.
Speaker 1: Can you explain briefly, and then then we'll move to
Speaker 1: to Pedro's situation. Can you explain the services that are
Speaker 1: provided for them by Border Patrol, and then what is
Speaker 1: provided for them by volunteers.
Speaker 5: By Border Patrol. It's essentially nothing. When this occurred in May,
Speaker 5: we heard that most people were receiving an eight ounce
Speaker 5: bottle of water daily, not really distributed in an organized manner. Currently,
Speaker 5: we're observing that people are when they arrive, they're at
Speaker 5: times provided with a sixteen ounce bottle of water and
Speaker 5: potentially a little proddler sized pack of goldfish crackers. Border
Speaker 5: Patrol is not providing any other continued services food, shelter, sanitation,
Speaker 5: anything like that. Those things have all been organized at
Speaker 5: a community level by a variety of organizations such as
Speaker 5: ours that's comprised of just regular people. So it's the
Speaker 5: government's task of managing a humanitarian crisis.
Speaker 4: They have.
Speaker 5: Like really outsourced it to the general community of supporters.
Speaker 5: So they have taken not just the role of not
Speaker 5: having any responsibility towards caring for migrants in like the
Speaker 5: most basic manner, but it also seems like they have
Speaker 5: come to expect the general community to come in and
Speaker 5: fill the gaps that they're not meeting. So Border Patrol
Speaker 5: is not providing them with anything. It's everyday regular people
Speaker 5: that are showing up with blankets, food, water, hygiene items.
Speaker 5: It's getting really cold, so people are distributing warm clothing, diapers, formula,
Speaker 5: anything that people need is being provided by the community.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a good summary, I think. So, Pedrick, could
Speaker 1: you explain how the how the situation is in sanny
Speaker 1: Edra and then also at the transit centers and it's
Speaker 1: a pretty similar situation, I think.
Speaker 4: Yeah, sure, I'll start with Sunny zero and the location
Speaker 4: where community members and organizations have set up is known
Speaker 4: as Whiskey eight. There are at least three other locations
Speaker 4: that we know where encampments have formed. One is Whisky four,
Speaker 4: which is close to the Las America Shopping Mall. It's
Speaker 4: an outlet mall closer to the port of entry, and
Speaker 4: then about a mile west of Whiskey eight there's Spooners Mesa,
Speaker 4: and then close to that there's ninety one X. The
Speaker 4: Spooners Mesa is primarily where the men's encampment is has
Speaker 4: been arranged, and this happened back in May. There is
Speaker 4: an incident where Border patrol decided to to move all
Speaker 4: the single adult men and walk them marched them essentially
Speaker 4: about a mile up a hill and then up another
Speaker 4: hill to get to Spooner's Mesa. After some advocacy last week,
Speaker 4: we convinced super Patrol to allow two of us to
Speaker 4: go up there to feed about anywhere between three hundred
Speaker 4: and eighty and four hundred men. And it took us
Speaker 4: over an hour, about an hour fifteen minutes to feed
Speaker 4: all of the men. Fortunately, we just barely had enough
Speaker 4: food for all of them. This was in the evening
Speaker 4: and as we were driving in and driving out, all
Speaker 4: we could see was milar blankets strown about, and that's
Speaker 4: all that was up there. And these were the men
Speaker 4: that were these milar blankets down in Whiskey eight. How
Speaker 4: community members and organizations have arranged the solidarity support stations
Speaker 4: have been in four set So you have the charging state,
Speaker 4: you have the medical supplies and other item station, then
Speaker 4: you have the food station and then the water station.
Speaker 4: And so we try to maintain the medical supplies. The
Speaker 4: food station is available only when we have enough food
Speaker 4: to provide substance to everyone there. We don't want to
Speaker 4: create a situation where we only serve half of the
Speaker 4: people or a quarter of the people. And then the
Speaker 4: other people go hungry, and mind you, it's important to
Speaker 4: point out that when people arrive there, they are hungry,
Speaker 4: they are thirsty. Some of them have scrapes because they
Speaker 4: scale the primary border barrier and injure themselves. Others are
Speaker 4: wet because they walked through the canal to get to
Speaker 4: that location. I've also witnessed on several locations where a
Speaker 4: border patrol will tell people who are injured to walk
Speaker 4: towards our location because they tell them that that's where
Speaker 4: we will provide them with medical care. Now, I think
Speaker 4: it's important to mention that under customers in a border
Speaker 4: protection which is a parent agency of the Border Patrol,
Speaker 4: under their national standards for how they are supposed to transport, escort,
Speaker 4: detain and search people under their custody, they are obligated
Speaker 4: to feed, to provide water, to provide shelter, to treat
Speaker 4: medical urgencies. Anytime that individuals are under their custody. There
Speaker 4: is some back and forth. Orbitral locally will say that
Speaker 4: individuals are not under their custody until they are being transported,
Speaker 4: even though they will provide them with a wristband or
Speaker 4: bracelet in some cases tell them to remove their shoelaces,
Speaker 4: direct them to where they should be walking, yell at
Speaker 4: them when they're not forming in lines in order to
Speaker 4: be picked up, sometimes throw a fit and will not
Speaker 4: pick people up even though they're supposed to be there
Speaker 4: to do that because people are not in lines as
Speaker 4: quickly as it should be. All of this to several
Speaker 4: of our organizations in the cake that border patrol at
Speaker 4: some to some degree has people under their custody and
Speaker 4: as such is violating the these national standards because it's
Speaker 4: not meeting their needs at any level. Besides maybe the
Speaker 4: bottle of water might provide and the one or two
Speaker 4: granola bars they provide per day.
Speaker 1: If even that, Yeah, I think it's the national border patrol.
Speaker 1: Pio also claimed to me that they were not detaining
Speaker 1: people and that people were free to quote return to Mexico,
Speaker 1: which like these people, I'm from Mexico and in many
Speaker 1: cases and like I think the first day, maybe I
Speaker 1: saw you speaking to one family who come from Mexico,
Speaker 1: but the vast guority of people weren't, and there'd also
Speaker 1: be entering Mexico between ports of entry because they're in
Speaker 1: the United States at this time. So yeah, it's just
Speaker 1: not that those people are like, there's there's lots of
Speaker 1: evidence that they're being detained, even if they say they're not.
Speaker 1: What then happens to those people? We've all seen it, right.
Speaker 1: These vans pull up. They generally process people in a
Speaker 1: certain order, which is to take unaccomplited miners and women
Speaker 1: who are alone with children, and then families and then
Speaker 1: single adults. What happens to them once they get on
Speaker 1: that van? Do we have a clear sense of that
Speaker 1: where they end up.
Speaker 4: They will be taken to any one of several borbaitral
Speaker 4: stations for processing. And it's that processing stage where most
Speaker 4: of them who are in these locations are there because
Speaker 4: they want to present themselves to the authority and begin
Speaker 4: an asilum claim, and so it's how they answer the
Speaker 4: questions while being processed that they get tracked, mostly for asylum.
Speaker 4: There are some that will be quickly removed from the
Speaker 4: country expeditiously, but most of them will be tracked for asylum.
Speaker 4: They will be given a court date when they should
Speaker 4: show up, and that court date the court location depends
Speaker 4: on where their final destination will be. Technically, Mexicans can
Speaker 4: only be detained for forty eight hours non Mexicans can
Speaker 4: only be detained no more than seventy two hours, So
Speaker 4: within that detention period, they then are being transported to
Speaker 4: one of four locations in San Diego County, two of
Speaker 4: which are in San Diego, the Santy Zero Transit Center,
Speaker 4: in the IRIS Transit Center, one in Oceanside, and the
Speaker 4: other in Alcohol. And so we're seeing the majority of
Speaker 4: the people being transported to saniny Ero and to IRIS,
Speaker 4: and that's where colleagues with other sister organizations are leading
Speaker 4: the charge to try to support them with seeing in
Speaker 4: charging phones, providing food, clothing, getting them to the airport,
Speaker 4: getting them transportation, getting them housing, and as much as
Speaker 4: limited as that's possible, trying to connect them with lost
Speaker 4: family members. Because families have been separated, there are adult
Speaker 4: children eighteen nineteen who also are trying to figure out
Speaker 4: where their family members are. And in some cases, as
Speaker 4: a conversation I had with them men from Venezuela, he
Speaker 4: had no idea what city he was at either though
Speaker 4: he was in San Diego, and so trying to make
Speaker 4: that type of arrangement and clarification is always challenging as well.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and obviously also expensive, right, Like these things all
Speaker 1: place burdens on like your donation network, and both in
Speaker 1: sort of the community in general. And perhaps we can
Speaker 1: talk about like, because the scale of support that's been
Speaker 1: provided by the community is extremely impressive, and given how
Speaker 1: many people have already come through this sort of not
Speaker 1: detention detention system, perhaps both you could talk about like
Speaker 1: the support you've been able to provide and how people
Speaker 1: who are not in San Diego can help you continue
Speaker 1: to provide that support.
Speaker 5: So the first day that we heard of folks coming in,
Speaker 5: because obviously it's interesting because border patrol, like Pedro says
Speaker 5: like they're claiming that these people are not under their care,
Speaker 5: but they're very much acting as if they're under their
Speaker 5: detained care. They're telling people that if they call an
Speaker 5: ambulance to seek medical care, as we observe, they say, well,
Speaker 5: that's going to affect your case if you leave. And
Speaker 5: so people are very much under the deliberate impression that
Speaker 5: they are being detained, but they're not being cared for
Speaker 5: in the most basic way. And so we first responded
Speaker 5: on Saturday. By Sunday we were there with five hundred
Speaker 5: meals that went very very quickly, providing shelter items for
Speaker 5: people so tarps. Hakumba is a very rugged desert terrain.
Speaker 5: There is no shade in these areas, so people are
Speaker 5: making sort of like makeshift shelters, but there is nothing
Speaker 5: shielding them from the sun, which is really unrelenting all
Speaker 5: day and it gets up to the nineties. So we've
Speaker 5: been providing tarps, pop ups, that sort of thing, so
Speaker 5: people are not becoming sick from overexposure. We're providing hygiene items,
Speaker 5: we're providing just basic needs. And that gets incredibly expensive
Speaker 5: because if it was a static situation, such as in
Speaker 5: May when there was eighteen hundred to two thousand people,
Speaker 5: that was a huge undertaking that also took a lot
Speaker 5: of community collaboration to meet the needs of so many people.
Speaker 5: But this time around, as James says, it's like a
Speaker 5: revolving door of hundreds and hundreds of people. So it's
Speaker 5: taking hundreds and hundreds While at any given time there
Speaker 5: may be only and I say only two to three
Speaker 5: hundred people, that doesn't mean that to only two to
Speaker 5: three hundred people needed to be fed that day. It's
Speaker 5: that you know that is who is there at that time,
Speaker 5: and when people arrive, as Pedro said, like they haven't
Speaker 5: eaten in days. We talked to people that said that
Speaker 5: they took two days to walk to Hakumba. So if
Speaker 5: they arrived to Tijuana without much food in their belly
Speaker 5: and then they're having to walk for two days, they're
Speaker 5: arriving starving and begging for food and not being provided
Speaker 5: with absolutely anything. So if it wasn't for all of
Speaker 5: the organizations that are showing up and taking sort of
Speaker 5: shifts to feed people, there would be nothing for them.
Speaker 5: And we have absolutely no idea how long this is
Speaker 5: going to go on. It could be over today, it
Speaker 5: could go on for months year. I mean, we really
Speaker 5: don't know what to expect. And organizations are being relied
Speaker 5: on to provide you know, life sustaining care for people,
Speaker 5: but we're not being communicated with from border patrol as
Speaker 5: to basically anything, what the outlook is, what the numbers are,
Speaker 5: what the updates of how the situation is going to evolve.
Speaker 5: So every day is a surprise and we need to
Speaker 5: have resources to be able to meet the needs of
Speaker 5: that day. It's incredibly like consuming of every resource including
Speaker 5: time and gas is six dollars a gallon.
Speaker 1: Yeah, now you need to drive your truck right because
Speaker 1: like you can't get to some of the locations, Like
Speaker 1: I know, I have a bigger truck and looks of
Speaker 1: my friends about to catch a rye with me because
Speaker 1: the cause can't make it.
Speaker 5: The exactly like, we have people that have gas efficient
Speaker 5: low priuses and stuff, and they're going to bottom out
Speaker 5: out there. So we have our huge lifted jeep that
Speaker 5: you know doesn't get as much gas mileage as something,
Speaker 5: but it's also going to be able to get the
Speaker 5: supplies out there. So every aspect of it is incredibly
Speaker 5: consuming of resources and we don't know what to expect.
Speaker 5: It's not it's hard to budget. You don't know what
Speaker 5: I expect. So the community has obviously come together in support.
Speaker 5: But then it's like, well, how do we manage this
Speaker 5: when we don't we can't forecast what's going on, So
Speaker 5: it's tough. It's definitely tough. We need sustained support.
Speaker 6: If I may add on that, as Jacquelin said, the
Speaker 6: people are showing up hungry, heavening for days. You know,
Speaker 6: we get reports that you know, people are showing up
Speaker 6: just begging for food, and the federal government more specifically DHS,
Speaker 6: more specifically CBP Border Patrol know this there's trying to
Speaker 6: stall people out at whatever the endgame is, and maybe
Speaker 6: it's just another arm of you know, prevention through the
Speaker 6: two parents. It's cruel. It's on purpose. People you know
Speaker 6: are are the ponds and whatever, you know, game is
Speaker 6: being played and it's cruel and that's you know, we're
Speaker 6: doing what we can to try to offset that as
Speaker 6: much as possible, but cruelty is definitely.
Speaker 2: They're all across the border.
Speaker 1: Just to kind of upbuild on what James said, like,
Speaker 1: I think it's very easy for this construct of migrants
Speaker 1: to like always be like this sort of demonized other
Speaker 1: Fox News and KUSI and all these outlets do that
Speaker 1: very well. But I think it's really important to like
Speaker 1: the people who were being cruel to, Like I saw
Speaker 1: a lady breastfeeding in the desert on Sunday night. I've
Speaker 1: seen grandparents, I've seen people who are eight months pregnant,
Speaker 1: little children like these aren't like people who have done
Speaker 1: anything wrong, and they just for whatever reason they're coming
Speaker 1: here doesn't really matter. They don't deserve to be treated
Speaker 1: like that. And like James said, it's something of an
Speaker 1: induced Like I've been to natural disasters all over the world,
Speaker 1: and reported on those and seen those, and I've been
Speaker 1: to refuge camps all over the world, But like it's
Speaker 1: some big of a unique to the US problem that
Speaker 1: our federal government can click its fingers and induce a
Speaker 1: humanitarian crisis and then like hold its hands up in
Speaker 1: the air and say we can't help you like that,
Speaker 1: Like aside from dictatorial regimes and places I've reported in,
Speaker 1: like the people don't governments don't do that very often.
Speaker 1: And like James said, it's these people who paid the price,
Speaker 1: it's not us for the most part. Peder, could you
Speaker 1: maybe explain a little bit of how American French Service
Speaker 1: Committee has been able to respond and the resources you've used,
Speaker 1: and how you can help make this a little bit
Speaker 1: less painful for the people who are being held in
Speaker 1: between defenses.
Speaker 4: Sure, learning from the experience that we had back in March,
Speaker 4: April and May, we heard a few weeks ago that
Speaker 4: there were people lined up in an area that we
Speaker 4: could not see from the US side, but could be
Speaker 4: seen from the Mexican side, just west of the Sandy
Speaker 4: Sea Port of entry, with people wearing and using Milar blankets.
Speaker 4: And so the Milar blankets were an indication to us
Speaker 4: that people were there for probably longer than four hours,
Speaker 4: and so we kept monitoring that, asking colleagues in Tikwana
Speaker 4: to inform us if they had seen any other groups
Speaker 4: like that, and off and on over the past month
Speaker 4: there were reports of that and it wasn't until about
Speaker 4: two weeks ago that someone said that they were there
Speaker 4: for a long period of time. So last last week
Speaker 4: we set up what we called an observation post at
Speaker 4: Whiskey eight so that we could determine for ourselves how
Speaker 4: long people were there, what sort of needs they might have,
Speaker 4: and how to respond whether to set up the solidarity
Speaker 4: support stations again and quickly we determined that that's what
Speaker 4: we needed to do, so we call our colleagues from
Speaker 4: other organizations when or to set up. Opula for instance,
Speaker 4: has been extremely helpful and leading the charge in different places.
Speaker 4: The Appreciate Collective so Mutual Group also has been extremely
Speaker 4: important in having their people out there, and Friends and
Speaker 4: Friendship Park also has been important. So all these organizations
Speaker 4: that responded quickly and started to build from the experience
Speaker 4: that we had back in late spring setting up these
Speaker 4: stations to charge phones. Phones are lifeline for people and
Speaker 4: back in may or Patrol threatened us and they said,
Speaker 4: if you want to keep feeding people, you can't be
Speaker 4: charging their phones. And so we said, well, we're going
Speaker 4: to have to keep charging phones because people need them.
Speaker 4: And fortunately Borbu backed off then and now it's part
Speaker 4: of what we do right. We charge phones, and they's
Speaker 4: how people are able to communicate with their loved ones,
Speaker 4: especially if they've been separated. Feeding people is just as
Speaker 4: much as we're able to even if it's just a sandwich,
Speaker 4: even if it's a warm meal, that we're able to
Speaker 4: get through the bars or the secondary border barrier. That
Speaker 4: could mean the difference between someone staying healthy or someone
Speaker 4: becoming seriously ill. Bandaging up small cuts could relieve someone
Speaker 4: from getting an infection, identifying when medical emergencies pop up,
Speaker 4: so an eighth month pregnant person who is suddenly having
Speaker 4: labor pains and having a needing to call nine to
Speaker 4: one one, for instance, or insisting with por patrol that
Speaker 4: the one month old child cannot remain overnight in between
Speaker 4: border walls, and just insisting and insisting and insisting insisting
Speaker 4: that the to port parties that they have there need
Speaker 4: to be serviced, for instance, And so all of this
Speaker 4: advocacy is happening at the same time that our colleagues
Speaker 4: and allies are also feeding people, and the constant communication
Speaker 4: with different elected officials pushing on them to take charge
Speaker 4: and to respond has been one of the different aspects
Speaker 4: of our response to what is a humanitarian disaster that
Speaker 4: has been slowly evolving, i would say, over years and years,
Speaker 4: because human migration isn't centered around humanitarian needs and human rights.
Speaker 4: It's been centered around enforcement, around militarization, around cruel deterrence,
Speaker 4: as James was talking about, which creates conditions where people
Speaker 4: are led to suffer. And that's what we're seeing right now,
Speaker 4: people suffering because of how this has been manufactured, how
Speaker 4: immigration has been dealt with, regardless of who's in the
Speaker 4: White House, over and over and over, and so now
Speaker 4: we're challenged to respond to these humanitar needs in ways
Speaker 4: that are stretching our limits, but we're able to do
Speaker 4: it and hopefully lifting up the dignity of people that
Speaker 4: are placing under these terrible, inhumane conditions.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it's very important to give people a
Speaker 1: little bit of dignity as much as we can. One
Speaker 1: thing that you mentioned that we haven't spoken about we
Speaker 1: should is elected officials and local federal state government. How
Speaker 1: much support, if any, have either of these sites received
Speaker 1: from people in elected office.
Speaker 4: You know, we have had support from Senator step Balia's office.
Speaker 4: That's been to me impressive to see how much interest
Speaker 4: there is, how much advocacy there is from staff from
Speaker 4: that office. We have not necessar there we had much
Speaker 4: support from congressional or federal senators. We have not seen
Speaker 4: them really on the ground. There is a responsibility I
Speaker 4: believe that the County of San Diego has to meet
Speaker 4: some of these challenging circumstances at the transit centers. They're bocking,
Speaker 4: I feel, and to the detriment of people who need
Speaker 4: these services and need the support. I believe the San
Speaker 4: Diego Police Department has been suggesting where people should be
Speaker 4: dropped off and not listening to folks on the ground
Speaker 4: about how the Irish station should be central and not
Speaker 4: dividing the drop offs between Irish and saney Ceso, for instance.
Speaker 4: So there's a lot of a lot of necessity for
Speaker 4: local governments to be coordinating with state and federal governments,
Speaker 4: and that's lacking, again to the detriment of people who
Speaker 4: are cut in the middle.
Speaker 1: How about James and Jack And have you seen any
Speaker 1: sort of government support.
Speaker 6: No, not at all. I've you know, heard through channels
Speaker 6: of you know, sources that work for the county and
Speaker 6: they claim that they're handcuffed or that it's Border Patrol's responsibility,
Speaker 6: and then Border Patrol is saying it's the county's responsibility,
Speaker 6: and it just it seems like appointing fingers. No one's
Speaker 6: trying to take you know, responsibility for it. And maybe
Speaker 6: that's because it's going to be something that's going to
Speaker 6: go on for a while. It's not something that either
Speaker 6: wants to you know, take on the responsibility of. And
Speaker 6: you know you've seen county supervisors speak out against it,
Speaker 6: pushing the blame. People are here, this is San Diego County,
Speaker 6: this is the United States. Someone needs to take care of,
Speaker 6: you know, the people here. That's that's the role of government.
Speaker 6: That's why people pay taxes for you know, for services
Speaker 6: and services need to be provided for. You know, we
Speaker 6: pay taxes so other people can get services as well.
Speaker 6: Citizens non citizens like that.
Speaker 4: To me, it seems so easy.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean that's.
Speaker 6: That's everything that you've been told. But everything that you're
Speaker 6: not seeing, you know, in practice. So I mean, this
Speaker 6: whole thing is to us on the ground. It seems
Speaker 6: so simple of how it should be done. But like
Speaker 6: you know, anytime, and we've spoken on it, I think
Speaker 6: on the last episode as well, like money's big issues.
Speaker 6: Going to spend all this money, they need to make
Speaker 6: sure that their money is going in the right pockets
Speaker 6: that they wanted to.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Like I was sitting out in her cumber with
Speaker 1: a colleague and we got overflown by a uh sixty
Speaker 1: black Hawk, like a Border Patrol helicopter, and it just
Speaker 1: hovered around checking us out, and like it's just so.
Speaker 2: I don't know, it's just.
Speaker 1: So depressing to see this helicopter which costs millions of dollars,
Speaker 1: which are thousands of dollars just to take off next
Speaker 1: to the border wall, which got twelve million dollars a mile.
Speaker 1: And like on the same day that the San Diego
Speaker 1: City Council filed an amicus brief in this case of
Speaker 1: the Supreme Court to allow it to further criminalize and
Speaker 1: house people. We have all these resources and we're just
Speaker 1: throwing them. As Pedera said, enforcement and criminalization of the
Speaker 1: most marginalized people in our communities rather than giving a
Speaker 1: thirsty person bottle of water or like a little baby blanket.
Speaker 1: And yeah, it's really hard.
Speaker 5: It's one of those agents over time of the day
Speaker 5: could literally feed everybody there. Yes, we're all like, you know,
Speaker 5: calculating calories per dollar of like the mule and trying
Speaker 5: to get like every single dollar to stretch because we
Speaker 5: don't know how long this is going to go on,
Speaker 5: because we know that public perception and interest is something
Speaker 5: that is not sustained. And purpose too, because for instance,
Speaker 5: Border Patrol is claiming and they were on what outlet
Speaker 5: was it.
Speaker 6: CBS CBS eight local San Diego said, I need to
Speaker 6: report that the Kumba capture cleared. There's no one's there.
Speaker 6: I just you know, I had to step away from
Speaker 6: this this recording for a few update that there are
Speaker 6: people still showing up. There's trying to get cleared out
Speaker 6: as quick as possible as people show up because it's
Speaker 6: in the public eye. But also now the power company
Speaker 6: is threatening legal action and criminal action against any aid
Speaker 6: orgs or people they show up.
Speaker 2: Oh great, cool, that'll be fun.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, yeah, the reporting on this has been poor,
Speaker 1: even more poor than it was in May. I'll say,
Speaker 1: like out in Hookumbaya, it's hard to get to. James
Speaker 1: and I both spent a decent junk of yesterday morning
Speaker 1: trying to direct people how to not get lost out there.
Speaker 1: But like I think, more pertinently, when there is not
Speaker 1: an election or like a narrative that migration fits in,
Speaker 1: it gets certainly by national outlets forgotten. With the end
Speaker 1: of Title forty two in May, I think everyone had
Speaker 1: their like sort of doomsday op eds in the weeks beforehand,
Speaker 1: and then that that didn't actually happen in the way
Speaker 1: that it had been sort of like quote unquote experts
Speaker 1: who don't come to the border very often had predicted
Speaker 1: it would, and so folks turned up, especially at Whiskey eight,
Speaker 1: and did this sort of crisis story. But we haven't
Speaker 1: seen that this time, and.
Speaker 5: You know, now it's appearing really different because, like you
Speaker 5: see sort of the management by border patrol of the
Speaker 5: situation in order to sort of shield the public from
Speaker 5: like the true level of the crisis. So in claiming
Speaker 5: that Boomba has been cleared, I suppose that's technically correct
Speaker 5: if they're referring to the you know, they're relying on
Speaker 5: reality in order to so people, the average everyday person
Speaker 5: that's not immersed in this is going to read that
Speaker 5: and be like, oh good, it's been cleared, because like,
Speaker 5: my family back home knows a lot of like really
Speaker 5: conservative folks outland Pear Valley, and like even the most
Speaker 5: conservative people I knew back in May were like, oh
Speaker 5: my gosh, how could they have babies out there in
Speaker 5: the desert. That's so horrible. And people had, you know,
Speaker 5: a lot of really strong emotions to seeing families huddled
Speaker 5: in the desert for a week. Now it seems like
Speaker 5: there's a really deliberate management of like the pr with
Speaker 5: respect to this situation. So yeah, like relying on the
Speaker 5: technicality of Hakumba being cleared because the main camp in
Speaker 5: town has been cleared, but ten fifteen minutes away, there's
Speaker 5: still hundreds of people, And we're the ones that are
Speaker 5: out on social media screaming into the void into each other. Hey,
Speaker 5: this is still happening, people, are you know, there's an
Speaker 5: amputee out here whose leg is bleeding. There is someone
Speaker 5: out here who hasn't had his heart medication for a week.
Speaker 5: Like those kind of situations are occurring still, while the
Speaker 5: report and the public reception is like, oh hahkum has
Speaker 5: been cleared. It's all good. So unless somebody is like
Speaker 5: already involved, they're generally not hearing about it. And I
Speaker 5: think that's on purpose too.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think it's Yeah, that's a very
Speaker 1: that's a very niche technicality. It might not be within
Speaker 1: the boundaries of the town of a cumber but like
Speaker 1: people are still being corraled in the desert with no services, right,
Speaker 1: and that that's what we should care about, not which
Speaker 1: districts they're in or what have you. So I think
Speaker 1: people have probably had why now that things are bad
Speaker 1: and we don't know how bad they will be, and
Speaker 1: then maybe they'll get worse, maybe they'll get better, and
Speaker 1: hopefully they'll want to support. So how can people do that?
Speaker 1: Like what resource? Like what I guess the concrete actions
Speaker 1: can they take? Where can they give you money? How
Speaker 1: can they send you supplies? If they want to volunteer
Speaker 1: in there in the county, how can they do that?
Speaker 1: And what kind of following is I'm nice needed?
Speaker 6: Yeah for border kindness. Monetary donations are the biggest help
Speaker 6: that allows us to meet current needs, daily needs. We're
Speaker 6: on venmo at border dash Kindness Cash app at border
Speaker 6: Kindness Cash. They'll info at border Kindness dot org.
Speaker 5: Volunteering volunteering is pretty sensitive, We're not We understand that
Speaker 5: our team is already incredibly taxed, so we do need
Speaker 5: support in terms of like food preparation and getting supplies
Speaker 5: out there, transporting supplies. But it is a very sensitive situation,
Speaker 5: so we do want to I don't know if vet
Speaker 5: or we want to be able to talk to the
Speaker 5: people that want to volunteer. So certain expectations that they
Speaker 5: may have accep certain needs that we may have are
Speaker 5: all communicated really clearly. So the organization alo very amazingly
Speaker 5: agreed to help us with that task of screening volunteers.
Speaker 5: So people, if they are wanting to do so and
Speaker 5: come out to Hakumba to email volunteer at alotro Lado
Speaker 5: dot org.
Speaker 2: Perfect, Yeah, that's pretty good.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I'll I'll send you that info and they can
Speaker 5: just say like what are they interested in doing, where're
Speaker 5: located and that sort of thing, and then we'll be
Speaker 5: in touch. Primarily, I mean more than anything, like twenty
Speaker 5: dollars is a tarp to cover a family and keep
Speaker 5: somebody shielded from the wind. We can feed a lot
Speaker 5: of people with one hundred dollars. So financial support is
Speaker 5: the most direct way. Even though it's not necessarily always
Speaker 5: feasible for people, it is the most efficient way for
Speaker 5: us to be able to buy items in bulk.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think even five bucks, right, like, maybe that's
Speaker 1: two people, and it really makes a day to have
Speaker 1: a whole meal.
Speaker 4: Oh my gosh.
Speaker 5: Yeah, anything helps.
Speaker 1: So yeah, people can definitely do this. How about for
Speaker 1: American French service cannit be better? How can people donate
Speaker 1: volunteer help?
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean I would. I would also stress what
Speaker 4: Jacqueline said in terms of vetting people and volunteers, it's
Speaker 4: you know, it's not it's not easy work, and we
Speaker 4: want to make sure that when people are volunteering that
Speaker 4: there's a certain level of emotional strength that people are
Speaker 4: able to have. It's very tough for work, and at
Speaker 4: the same time make sure that what we're doing does
Speaker 4: not negatively impact those that we are presuming to want
Speaker 4: to help, right, And so that's important. I think going
Speaker 4: through those channels, if you you know the folks that
Speaker 4: are leading the the work at the transit centers, check
Speaker 4: in with them, first, but then there are other things
Speaker 4: that could be done. The other day, someone showed up
Speaker 4: with twenty boxes of pizza, you know, a very useful
Speaker 4: easy way to support connecting with people and finding out
Speaker 4: what the needs are. That's another way. If if you
Speaker 4: would rather purchase the tarps yourselves, for instance, do that
Speaker 4: and then we can pick them up. We can find
Speaker 4: out how to meet and pick pick up those items.
Speaker 4: If you want to donate, there are multiple organizations doing
Speaker 4: this work. I believe someone was working on a list
Speaker 4: to produce for us. Going on the website a f
Speaker 4: C dot org and being sure that you find our
Speaker 4: locations San Diego, so that our program then receives that
Speaker 4: donation directly. If the program goes to the overall a FHC,
Speaker 4: we won't see it. So just be very mindful of
Speaker 4: when you're donating to a f C AFC dot org.
Speaker 4: First locate sending your program office and then find the
Speaker 4: donate page on there so that we can be assured
Speaker 4: that you are sending it to our program. Or you
Speaker 4: can definitely contact me and I could also assist you
Speaker 4: with that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it's great. I think it's important that
Speaker 1: both of you sort of centered with regard to volunteering,
Speaker 1: that there are organizations that exist to serve volunteers through
Speaker 1: facilitating like a service experience to them, and that that's
Speaker 1: not what is happening here, Like this is about serving
Speaker 1: people who are very vulnerable, so like there has to
Speaker 1: be some kind of vetting process and people have to
Speaker 1: understand that, like that's part of keeping those people safe
Speaker 1: and that's why that's happening. So yeah, thank thank you
Speaker 1: very much for this. We'll keep covering it obviously, and
Speaker 1: I really hope people can find some resources to donate
Speaker 1: because it's been very taxing financially and all these groups
Speaker 1: and on our community generally. Is there anything else you
Speaker 1: guys would like to share before we finish?
Speaker 2: Yep.
Speaker 4: The only thing I would add is that, you know,
Speaker 4: pressing the authorities. That's the other way if you are
Speaker 4: able to connect with the county, you know, your county
Speaker 4: supervisor in San Diego, press on them that they have
Speaker 4: a responsibility and an obligation to respond to this in
Speaker 4: a way that supports people who need to support And
Speaker 4: that's where I would I would push towards.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'll add to that that having spoken to people
Speaker 1: in the county and in state office, Like if you call,
Speaker 1: that makes more difference. So and if you email, so
Speaker 1: if you have the time to make a phone call,
Speaker 1: that could help a lot. Anything else from you, James Jacqueline,
Speaker 1: That's what.
Speaker 2: I can think of.
Speaker 6: I mean everything changes daily, so if we were to
Speaker 6: record them so every single day, I'm sure I can
Speaker 6: come with something new.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 5: For people to stay clued in with channels of communications
Speaker 5: such as this podcast that are actually with people on
Speaker 5: the ground and share that with their community is really important.
Speaker 5: Like we're already getting like some social media kind of comments.
Speaker 5: I mean it happens every time about how we're aiding
Speaker 5: and abetting people breaking the law, but it's the government
Speaker 5: breaking the law. They're breaking international asylum law. And it's
Speaker 5: really important for people who aren't as versed in all
Speaker 5: of this to stay aware of that that everybody who
Speaker 5: is presenting for asylum has a legal right to do so,
Speaker 5: not that it matters, I mean they have, like it's
Speaker 5: a humanitarian right, yes, But for people who are very
Speaker 5: concerned with legality, or at least they lean heavily on legality,
Speaker 5: presenting for asylum is illegally protected right. And that's something
Speaker 5: that is actually being cut short by the government in
Speaker 5: violation of that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think you're right. It doesn't really matter. Like
Speaker 1: I already don't give a shit about.
Speaker 5: Like come back for people that really about it.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's good to it's good to remind them that
Speaker 1: they are wrong, both morally and legally.
Speaker 4: Exactly.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So what would your.
Speaker 1: Social media spa if people wanted to keep up to
Speaker 1: date with what's happening?
Speaker 5: Border Kindness on Instagram tends to have the most up
Speaker 5: to date common I mean shares of like what we're doing,
Speaker 5: and that will have updates in our stories and our
Speaker 5: posts of how to help what's going on.
Speaker 2: How about you, Pedro.
Speaker 4: We're we're terrible with our social media, but you can
Speaker 4: definitely find some of our work there a f C
Speaker 4: San Diego. Just look for a f C San Diego
Speaker 4: minus Pedro Consos Pedro mostly on on Twitter, some ig
Speaker 4: and I'll be updating some items later today.
Speaker 2: Perfect. Yeah.
Speaker 1: One more question, because people contacted me in May to
Speaker 1: ask if they could donate amiles to facilitate travel for
Speaker 1: folks after they've been paroled into the Is that something
Speaker 1: that AFSC can do?
Speaker 4: There is another organization I'm not sure that's what you've
Speaker 4: just mentioned now.
Speaker 3: The Miles for Migrants, Yeah, Miles for Yeah absolutely absolutely
Speaker 3: a wonderful organization and that we've used through some of
Speaker 3: our other assist or organizations and getting people to their
Speaker 3: final destinations.
Speaker 4: I would say that might be the best way right now.
Speaker 1: Okay, Yeah, so that's the thing people can do if
Speaker 1: they happen to have a setup plus of those. And great,
Speaker 1: thank you so much for your time. I know you're
Speaker 1: all extremely busy. I appreciate it. And yeah, hopefully people
Speaker 1: listening will find a way to support if they can.
Speaker 4: Thanks guys, great, thank you.
Speaker 2: It could happen here as a production of cool Zone Media.
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Speaker 5: You can find sources for It could Happen here, updated
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Speaker 5: for listening.