Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast am on
Speaker 1: iHeart Radio and welcome back to Coast to Coast George
Speaker 1: Nori with you. Will Heart. Journalist, nature photographer, filmmaker, and
Speaker 1: noted author. He has a deep and abiding interest in
Speaker 1: natural and human history. His work has been published in
Speaker 1: Wild West, Sierra Heritage, Adventure, West Nexus, and New Don
Speaker 1: and his articles have appeared in every issue of Atlantis
Speaker 1: Rising for the past two years plus, and he has
Speaker 1: just signed the agreement to write a column for New
Speaker 1: Don as well. Will Heart back on Coast to Coast. Well,
Speaker 1: welcome back, Hey George, how are you. I'm doing great,
Speaker 1: hope you are too. What's new? Good? Your voice sounds
Speaker 1: the same. You realize that our first conversation was twenty
Speaker 1: years ago? Yep, just when I started. Yeah, that's right,
Speaker 1: and that's when my first book got published. So we're
Speaker 1: in tandem on that the Genesis Race, if I remember.
Speaker 1: That's right, right, And it's amazing the time has flown by,
Speaker 1: as they say. I mean, it's just I was just
Speaker 1: realizing it yesterday and I thought, my god, twenty years
Speaker 1: has gone by. I know that's crazy, isn't And it
Speaker 1: just seems like a lot has transpired and we're in
Speaker 1: a different world. Would you agree, Yeah, we really are,
Speaker 1: there's no question about that. And you know, I just
Speaker 1: saw a story today of an ex Navy pilot talking
Speaker 1: about these UAPs flying all over the place, and he said,
Speaker 1: whatever they were, I couldn't catch them. They had maneuvers
Speaker 1: that I've never seen before on aircraft. That's right. What
Speaker 1: what do you deduced by that one? You know, the
Speaker 1: military has known that all along. People on our side
Speaker 1: of the fence who've been arguing that there's something real
Speaker 1: in our skies that remains unknown, well they finally came
Speaker 1: up to the plate and said, okay, we agree, we
Speaker 1: stand convinced and corrected. It feels kind of good you
Speaker 1: have been on the other side of because when I
Speaker 1: started this out back in the late nineteen nineties writing
Speaker 1: about these things, you were you were a nut case.
Speaker 1: You know, if you talked about it, right, that's the
Speaker 1: way it used to be. That's the way the media
Speaker 1: treated you. That's right. And now we're in a whole
Speaker 1: new ball game. And I wonder, you know, people in
Speaker 1: our age group a little bit older got brainwashed. I mean,
Speaker 1: let's face it, unless you experienced that, which I'm going
Speaker 1: to talk a little bit about that tonight because I've
Speaker 1: never talked about it before, never written about it publicly.
Speaker 1: My own experience, but I hadn't experienced an observation back
Speaker 1: in sixty nine, and that gut is what got me interested.
Speaker 1: And I know Jacques Vally, you know, the mean, very
Speaker 1: solid scientific researcher, that's what motivated him, you know, to
Speaker 1: get into it and to stick with it, because once
Speaker 1: you have that experience, it's like, I know what I
Speaker 1: saw right period. I don't care what the government says.
Speaker 1: I know what my eyes saw and what I experienced.
Speaker 1: And anybody that's had that, and you know, there's not
Speaker 1: that all percentage wise, there's not that many people that
Speaker 1: have the experience. And it's odd that they seem to
Speaker 1: have more than one experience over and over again, don't they.
Speaker 1: It's very strange, isn't it. It's almost like they've been selected.
Speaker 1: They may have been things like that. It seems like
Speaker 1: they pick who they who they want to and this
Speaker 1: could be rearranged, that could be part of you know,
Speaker 1: our desk in the air karma or whatever you want
Speaker 1: to call it, and our genetics and the whole history,
Speaker 1: that certain people are just ready for it and other
Speaker 1: people aren't. And I don't see I'll tell you, I
Speaker 1: really looked at this on all these different levels. You
Speaker 1: know that I'm not so sure that people who haven't
Speaker 1: experienced it can ever really have the sense of what
Speaker 1: it is. It's just an idea to them. Really, if
Speaker 1: you've experienced it, you know firsthand how strange it really is.
Speaker 1: And it may be, it may be to collectively the
Speaker 1: majority really doesn't want to know. There's only a minority
Speaker 1: of people that have enough curiosity and enough sense of
Speaker 1: not being afraid of the mystery of it, the unknown,
Speaker 1: but wanting to know the truth. That's what motivated me.
Speaker 1: I don't I don't use the word belief because it's
Speaker 1: a fact to me, and that's all I go by
Speaker 1: his facts and evidence. And I'll tell you though, back
Speaker 1: in that day, that's exactly the time that Eric van
Speaker 1: Zankin came out with his books, and I was studying
Speaker 1: the UFOs because I wanted to know what the heck
Speaker 1: I had seen. And then I started reading his books
Speaker 1: and I was thinking about it, and I got down
Speaker 1: to a very basic practical thing. The pyramids and the
Speaker 1: other and you know, the mysteries that are around the world,
Speaker 1: they're not traveling around at ten thousand miles an hour.
Speaker 1: They're fixed. They're in a place where I can you know,
Speaker 1: touch them and see them and study them. So I
Speaker 1: decided to go into into that, and only in the
Speaker 1: last book that I write about a hundred pages though
Speaker 1: on UFOs on what I thought were the most solid
Speaker 1: classic cases, and they were classic, and they were classic
Speaker 1: cases too. There were good ones that you selected. They're
Speaker 1: very solid cases, just very solid. So I wanted people,
Speaker 1: you know, to kind of introduce people that, look, there's
Speaker 1: no as far as I'm concerned, and this is just
Speaker 1: my point of view. I just blur the line between
Speaker 1: modern UFOs and ancient UFOs because it's all the same continuum.
Speaker 1: To me, it didn't all start in the nineteen forties.
Speaker 1: It goes way back. As far back as we go.
Speaker 1: People have always been saying these things and scratching their heads,
Speaker 1: and one, you know, just in awe, what is this?
Speaker 1: We still don't know? Will science ever get us the
Speaker 1: answers that we're looking for? Will well that that's a
Speaker 1: real question, because all thelong there's been this this idea
Speaker 1: which I don't quite except that science hasn't been involved.
Speaker 1: I know that science was involved, not in the big
Speaker 1: way that it is right now. I mean we're talking
Speaker 1: about you know, the head astronomer there at Harvard, you
Speaker 1: know Avi Low, you've had him on or not, but yeah,
Speaker 1: he's been on the program. Okay, then you're well aware
Speaker 1: of what he's doing. And then NASA they've got their
Speaker 1: own project going on. And we've got scientists already who've
Speaker 1: made studies, have come out with their results. The problem,
Speaker 1: part of the problem I see with it. There's lots
Speaker 1: of people have studied this. How most people really have
Speaker 1: studied this over the last seventy years. And the thing
Speaker 1: with sciences, they've got to have hard data, Well, how
Speaker 1: are they going to get it? All they can do
Speaker 1: is go back to previous cases. They're not going to
Speaker 1: quickly you find out, Well, we can't just go out
Speaker 1: and get the data because we have to stand there
Speaker 1: and look in the sky. And these things don't show
Speaker 1: up on time or when you want them to. They
Speaker 1: just come whenever they want to and they don't stick around,
Speaker 1: So you can't take it to the lab. You can't
Speaker 1: reproduce results. What do you do as a scientist. I mean,
Speaker 1: I'm puzzled by by that whole aspect of this. And
Speaker 1: they want hard evidence. Yeah, they want hard to give
Speaker 1: me a give me a UFO. Can't take me up
Speaker 1: in it and show them you know, well, I'm sorry,
Speaker 1: but you have to listen to the pilots. Have you
Speaker 1: watched any interviews with them, and you can just you know,
Speaker 1: I mean, I was in the Naval air and I
Speaker 1: know what pilots are like. And when when a pilot
Speaker 1: is just astonished by something, they communicate it. You can
Speaker 1: tell in the tone of their voice and everything that
Speaker 1: these guys experienced something that completely blew their minds. They
Speaker 1: were hoping they weren't Russian or Chinese exactly, because yeah,
Speaker 1: we'd be in big trouble yet. But they go so fast.
Speaker 1: They can, you know, appear and disappear. You know, all
Speaker 1: the flight characteristics are unbelievable. They defy physics. And so
Speaker 1: we're talking about something that you have to raise, like
Speaker 1: Jacques Lillie did years ago, that they're probably interdimensional. They
Speaker 1: can come into this. That's why they can disappear, and
Speaker 1: they can appear and then they can disappear and pilots
Speaker 1: have seen it, you know, they've they've reported it. So
Speaker 1: the era of science. The other thing about science I
Speaker 1: mean we know is it moves very slowly. It's going
Speaker 1: to take them a long time to gather and it's
Speaker 1: sort of like going back to square one. Lots of
Speaker 1: studies have been done, so they're going to collect what
Speaker 1: new data, go through old cases, which has been done
Speaker 1: a lot, and do what exactly. I'm a little confused,
Speaker 1: to be honest. A lot of people are will because
Speaker 1: you know, it's just answers. You're close, but they're just
Speaker 1: not quite there yet. I don't I don't know if
Speaker 1: we can. We have the problem. Part of the problem
Speaker 1: I have is we don't control this. They do. So
Speaker 1: we may want something right, But if they're the more
Speaker 1: intelligent than we are, which I am assuming they are
Speaker 1: from from what I conceive of what they've done on
Speaker 1: this planet, in this solar system and so on, we're just,
Speaker 1: you know, I don't know what to call us. Really,
Speaker 1: we're kind of like transceivers that that did information. But
Speaker 1: we didn't create any of this. We know it. Somebody did,
Speaker 1: and they may not. They may be regulating how far
Speaker 1: we can go and at what pace we can do
Speaker 1: it if that makes sense. Well, years ago, will we
Speaker 1: used to have scorched burn marks they left in fields
Speaker 1: and things like that's right. We don't have that anymore,
Speaker 1: you know. And I think of and I know, you
Speaker 1: just have the folks on the Phoenix lights, those large,
Speaker 1: super large, huge triangular shape. They're so different to me.
Speaker 1: That marked to me, it communicated there's a change going on,
Speaker 1: you know, a shift. They were very blatantly We're seen,
Speaker 1: you know, traveling about four hundred miles, very slowly and
Speaker 1: very low to the ground. They wanted to be seen,
Speaker 1: but that was all. They just wanted to be seen,
Speaker 1: like a display flying over the White House and the
Speaker 1: Capitol Building in fifty two, right, exactly exactly. That was similar.
Speaker 1: And I've been trying to I've been puzzling, and that
Speaker 1: was one I wished I would have put in in
Speaker 1: my last book that I omitted and I decided, you know,
Speaker 1: to do. And I'm I'm in Las Vegas so I
Speaker 1: can get down to Arizona, and I wanted to go
Speaker 1: and kind of redo the whole thing. Yeah, you know,
Speaker 1: an investigation and see where we are with this now.
Speaker 1: And I just noticed that last week one was reported
Speaker 1: and also photographed over San Antonio, Texas. Look pretty much
Speaker 1: the same as the Phoenix lights. Large, triangular shaped, yeah,
Speaker 1: large and obviously, I mean, if it's it's hard to
Speaker 1: believe when people report that this object just completely blotted
Speaker 1: everything out of the sky. It was so big and
Speaker 1: some people are estimating a mile long, you know, are wide,
Speaker 1: and that couldn't be kept anywhere. It's it's very hard
Speaker 1: to conceive of what would they do? Where could it
Speaker 1: take off? Where could they hide it? You know, it
Speaker 1: just doesn't make any sense. I mean, the thing gets
Speaker 1: weirder and weirder, and I found the same thing with
Speaker 1: a lot of the ancient sites. Things get stranger the
Speaker 1: deeper you go. You know, it's sort of like the
Speaker 1: rabbit hole concept. You start, you go, and you keep
Speaker 1: going and you realize, wait a minute, it just keeps
Speaker 1: going and going, and kind of I'm talking about like,
Speaker 1: I'm sure you're familiar with the long Ue caves in China, Okay,
Speaker 1: you know, and the thing that struck me the most
Speaker 1: powerful thing was Okay, the caves are really interesting. Chinese
Speaker 1: government admits they don't know who created it, They have
Speaker 1: no history of it. The local people didn't even have
Speaker 1: any folk traditions about these caves. But now we know
Speaker 1: there were twenty four of them. But the first cave
Speaker 1: they discovered probably estimated five hundred million tons of rock
Speaker 1: were taken out to create the cave. And the problem
Speaker 1: is there's no waste rock anywhere. It was never problemed.
Speaker 1: So when you have something like that, it's like, wait
Speaker 1: a minute, this doesn't make any sense. Who could evaporate
Speaker 1: the rock? Where'd it go? And then when you look
Speaker 1: at the Pyramids, you asked the same question. We don't
Speaker 1: have equipment today that can lift those blocks, that's right.
Speaker 1: So we're talking about technological issues. How advanced would that
Speaker 1: civilization have to have been whenever they did it, and
Speaker 1: it was more than five thousand years ago. I'm convinced
Speaker 1: of that, are you? I'm same same, I'm in your camp.
Speaker 1: So I can't imagine what the technology was, and I
Speaker 1: don't think anybody has so far. Why did they build it? Well,
Speaker 1: Chris Dunn is onto something I'm not. I don't totally
Speaker 1: know that he has all the answers. I doubt that
Speaker 1: he would claim to. He claims it's a power plant, right,
Speaker 1: that's right, which at the very least his concept and
Speaker 1: the data he's presented makes people think, makes them look
Speaker 1: at it not as a passive a tomb, which is ridiculous,
Speaker 1: you know, a four million ton tomb. It's just silly
Speaker 1: and frankly, that's why I can only laugh at the
Speaker 1: things that historians and archaeologists say, even though I don't
Speaker 1: find it funny, it's too serious because unless the pharaoh
Speaker 1: had a great ego, right, even if he had a
Speaker 1: huge ego, the question to me gets back to where
Speaker 1: are the tools and how would you do it with?
Speaker 1: And I know what the tools they claim were used,
Speaker 1: and they're ridiculous. You created a precision engineered, you know,
Speaker 1: forty eight story tall stone pyramid using stone age tools?
Speaker 1: Are you? I don't think people realize that's what the
Speaker 1: ancient Egyptians had, or one hundred thousand Egyptians pulling the
Speaker 1: rocks silly. There's no way, Philly, because you take the
Speaker 1: most you take the most difficult task, which was to
Speaker 1: get seventy tons blocks one hundred and fifty feet vertical
Speaker 1: feet up in the air. That's what you have to do. Well,
Speaker 1: how are you going to do that? There's no amount
Speaker 1: of slaves because I don't care if you built a ramp,
Speaker 1: there wouldn't be enough slaves that could go up the
Speaker 1: ramp and turn to pull it to pull it up.
Speaker 1: They couldn't. They lifted off the ground. And then they
Speaker 1: talk about the port theory. Do you know how much
Speaker 1: mud they'd have to make to make that kind of stone? Right?
Speaker 1: It doesn't solve the problem, right, No, it's illogical, it
Speaker 1: really is. You know, maybe there I kind of look
Speaker 1: at things sometimes it's pretty simplistic. But on one level,
Speaker 1: there seems to be two types of people. One are
Speaker 1: the problem solvers. Everything is a problem to be solved.
Speaker 1: The other people look at the mysteries and realize they
Speaker 1: really are mysteries. Instead of trying to come up with,
Speaker 1: you know, artificial, nonsensical solutions to everything we see, they say,
Speaker 1: you know what, it's a mystery. Listen to more Coast
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Speaker 1: go to Coast to Coast am dot com. I'm so there.