WEBVTT - Ben Cowan-Dewar on Founding Cabot and Becoming a Golf Course Developer 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:02.840 I miss a green, for example, I'm already upset. When 0:00:02.880 --> 0:00:04.960 I find my ball in the bunker, I'm really upset. 0:00:05.040 --> 0:00:07.560 And when I find my ball in a egg Friday, 0:00:07.560 --> 0:00:12.399 Egg Frida Egg, Frida Egg Bride, Egg Lie, I'm about 0:00:12.440 --> 0:00:40.320 ready to run off of the. 0:00:35.159 --> 0:00:38.800 Welcome back to another edition of the Frida Egg Podcast. 0:00:39.080 --> 0:00:43.920 Today's guest is Ben Cowan Duar. Ben is the developer 0:00:44.159 --> 0:00:51.440 behind Cabot, a rapidly growing golf destination company golf resort company. 0:00:51.800 --> 0:00:56.040 He started with Cabot Cape Breton up in Canada. He 0:00:56.200 --> 0:01:00.440 has since expanded with Cabot Saint Lucia, Cabot revel Stoke 0:01:00.560 --> 0:01:05.440 planned in Canada, as well as well as Cabot Citrus 0:01:05.480 --> 0:01:10.160 Farms down in Florida. So we talked a lot about 0:01:10.520 --> 0:01:12.759 how Ben got to start in the industry. I think 0:01:12.800 --> 0:01:16.959 it's a unique journey. Obviously, he's a younger guy in 0:01:17.080 --> 0:01:20.759 terms of a golf developer and an interesting story on 0:01:20.920 --> 0:01:25.520 how you become one. So, without further ado, here is Ben. 0:01:31.440 --> 0:01:34.480 All right, Ben, welcome on. You know, one of the 0:01:35.080 --> 0:01:38.040 busiest about in the golf big news obviously in the 0:01:38.120 --> 0:01:44.119 last week with Cabot Citrus Farm, which is the old Worldwoods, 0:01:44.120 --> 0:01:47.720 and I'm sure there's bigger and better plans for it, 0:01:47.760 --> 0:01:53.520 but talk a little bit about how Worldwoods came about, and. 0:01:53.840 --> 0:01:57.360 Well, you know, for me, Worldwoods was really one of 0:01:57.360 --> 0:02:01.720 the exemplars in destination golf, if you will, sort of 0:02:01.760 --> 0:02:04.640 before we talked a lot about it, and I had 0:02:05.360 --> 0:02:08.240 I had found my way there more than twenty years ago, 0:02:08.440 --> 0:02:11.600 basically just hearing about this place of a great public 0:02:11.639 --> 0:02:14.320 access golf. And obviously it opened in nineteen ninety three 0:02:15.080 --> 0:02:18.640 and Tom Fasio had done you know, rolling Oaks pine 0:02:18.639 --> 0:02:22.120 barrens and you know, a circular driving range which was 0:02:22.200 --> 0:02:25.000 extraordinarily novel at the time, and that a nine hole 0:02:25.080 --> 0:02:29.200 part three before was short course, I guess it wasn't 0:02:29.240 --> 0:02:31.600 all par threes and a three hole practice loop, and 0:02:32.200 --> 0:02:34.080 you know, a two acre putting green, and it was 0:02:34.120 --> 0:02:37.480 sort of a you know, a smortess board of golf 0:02:37.520 --> 0:02:41.640 for the public golfer, which you know predated abandoned and 0:02:41.720 --> 0:02:46.080 certainly I hadn't I hadn't yet thought of Cabot when 0:02:46.080 --> 0:02:49.760 I first went there, but was hugely inspired, you know, 0:02:49.880 --> 0:02:53.320 hugely inspired by it. And really I think the thing 0:02:53.360 --> 0:02:55.680 that for me Andy, which I've heard so many times 0:02:55.760 --> 0:02:59.919 is it didn't feel like Florida. And you know, people 0:03:00.680 --> 0:03:03.320 when they said that, we're really saying, you know, looking 0:03:03.360 --> 0:03:05.120 at a lot of elevation change and at a lot 0:03:05.160 --> 0:03:09.000 of exposed sand, and you know, had mossy oaks, and 0:03:09.080 --> 0:03:12.160 you know, and really old stately trees and and so 0:03:12.639 --> 0:03:15.040 you know, I've long loved the place and had long 0:03:15.680 --> 0:03:18.280 long hoped we could acquire it, and have tried a 0:03:18.320 --> 0:03:21.639 few times over the years, obviously unsuccessfully, until we were 0:03:22.480 --> 0:03:25.680 we were very thankful that we were able to buy 0:03:25.720 --> 0:03:29.440 it from the original developer and who had developed it 0:03:29.480 --> 0:03:33.639 with a grand vision thirty years ago, and able to 0:03:34.400 --> 0:03:35.400 take it forward today. 0:03:36.400 --> 0:03:38.960 It's got to be for you a little bit different. 0:03:39.040 --> 0:03:42.320 Obviously, you've got Cabot Saint Lucia in development, you've got 0:03:42.360 --> 0:03:47.160 Cabot Nova Scotia Cape Breton, and you know this one though, 0:03:47.360 --> 0:03:52.960 you're taking over something with existing infrastructure, So I imagine a 0:03:53.000 --> 0:03:56.240 lot of it is kind of reimagining, updating, getting it 0:03:56.360 --> 0:03:59.760 to you know, your standards with in terms of lodging, 0:04:00.080 --> 0:04:03.760 and also the golf courses, which are you know, as 0:04:03.800 --> 0:04:07.760 you said, I went there right after college, so would 0:04:07.800 --> 0:04:10.040 have been early two thousands, was the first time I'd 0:04:10.040 --> 0:04:12.160 been there and a buddy of mine. 0:04:12.280 --> 0:04:13.720 We were just amazed at the golf. 0:04:13.920 --> 0:04:16.440 You know, for somebody that hadn't at that time played 0:04:16.760 --> 0:04:19.039 a lot of golf courses around the world. You go 0:04:19.120 --> 0:04:21.200 down there and you're like, God, this is a different 0:04:21.240 --> 0:04:23.480 type of golf that I've used to seeing. And and 0:04:23.920 --> 0:04:25.880 like you said, it was really ahead of its time. 0:04:27.040 --> 0:04:30.120 Well, and I think you know, and I think you're right. 0:04:30.120 --> 0:04:33.520 I mean, I think the one thing that that was 0:04:33.560 --> 0:04:35.240 always clear, I mean, it used to be pretty hard 0:04:35.240 --> 0:04:36.880 to get to too, right. It was a lot of 0:04:36.960 --> 0:04:39.440 sort of secuitest roads. And they you know at the 0:04:39.480 --> 0:04:42.400 Suncoast Parkway now going straight up from Tampa, it's forty 0:04:42.400 --> 0:04:44.680 five minutes from the Tampa airport, and so I think 0:04:44.720 --> 0:04:47.840 it's gotten easier to get to. But as you drive 0:04:47.880 --> 0:04:51.320 in there today, it's obvious that you know, in our 0:04:51.400 --> 0:04:56.800 model of building, you know, cottages, villas and hotel you know, 0:04:56.960 --> 0:04:58.800 they just never really caught all the way there on. 0:04:58.839 --> 0:05:02.279 And I think there was the obvious opportunity for us, Andy, 0:05:02.320 --> 0:05:04.880 which was, you know, if we could if we could 0:05:04.960 --> 0:05:07.560 get the golf to shine like it did when you 0:05:07.560 --> 0:05:11.279 and I first saw it, and and build accommodation, and 0:05:11.360 --> 0:05:14.160 I think, you know, it's we love the land, we 0:05:14.240 --> 0:05:16.360 love the location, and and there's quite a bit of 0:05:16.400 --> 0:05:19.279 additional land that is undeveloped. But you know, they didn't 0:05:19.520 --> 0:05:21.560 they didn't get to building the accommodation, which I think 0:05:21.640 --> 0:05:25.080 really allowed us that opportunity. I mean, I think it's 0:05:25.120 --> 0:05:29.800 existing golf and it literally is is operating operating golf today. 0:05:30.200 --> 0:05:35.800 And you know, but but Cape Breton, while you know, 0:05:36.040 --> 0:05:41.960 Mike Kaiser and I brought brought Cabot links to to life, 0:05:42.160 --> 0:05:45.640 you know, there have been previous iterations and you know 0:05:45.640 --> 0:05:48.200 a few golf course architects who had done routing plans. 0:05:48.240 --> 0:05:50.719 And similarly in Saint Lucia, it was a you know, 0:05:50.760 --> 0:05:54.240 it was a golf development that unfortunately succumb to the 0:05:54.279 --> 0:05:57.600 financial crisis. So you know, I mean, I think it's 0:05:57.960 --> 0:06:01.480 it's hard to say that the were truly original ideas 0:06:01.520 --> 0:06:04.200 because there were people thinking about golf there before. But 0:06:04.640 --> 0:06:07.240 you know, I think being able to build on places 0:06:07.279 --> 0:06:13.080 that there is infrastructure and golf is is certainly certainly 0:06:13.120 --> 0:06:15.960 a lot easier than having to cobble together all the 0:06:16.000 --> 0:06:19.760 individual parcels as we did somewhat in Cape Breton. 0:06:20.600 --> 0:06:23.440 For for those that have played the courses. You know, 0:06:23.520 --> 0:06:26.279 in terms of your plans, I've seen a few things 0:06:26.320 --> 0:06:29.200 bad around the internet. Are you guys thinking more of 0:06:29.240 --> 0:06:33.200 a restoration or more of a renovation? You know, obviously 0:06:33.520 --> 0:06:36.240 you know both those courses are. I wouldn't say they're 0:06:36.279 --> 0:06:40.200 perfect in any way, but they're they're very good public 0:06:40.480 --> 0:06:44.640 access golf courses today. You know, what, what are your 0:06:44.680 --> 0:06:47.479 thoughts on those courses are? Are you looking at you know, 0:06:47.600 --> 0:06:51.240 kind of some some tweaks, some major tweaks, or you know, 0:06:51.400 --> 0:06:53.480 just try to put them back to what they were originally? 0:06:54.400 --> 0:06:57.440 Well, I think I think that's what we're really really 0:06:57.440 --> 0:07:00.640 formulating the plan right now, and we have them to 0:07:01.480 --> 0:07:04.599 you know, and I'm sure there's lots of the lots 0:07:04.600 --> 0:07:06.720 of things bandied around the internet, and some of them 0:07:06.760 --> 0:07:09.400 might even be true. But since I haven't, since I 0:07:09.440 --> 0:07:11.600 haven't made up my mind, I know which ones are 0:07:11.640 --> 0:07:14.280 and which ones aren't, I guess, but you know, look it, 0:07:14.600 --> 0:07:17.640 and you know, I think the biggest thing that if 0:07:17.640 --> 0:07:20.600 you look at from when you first visited and when 0:07:20.640 --> 0:07:23.920 I first visited to today, what you really see is 0:07:24.000 --> 0:07:28.280 just a massive amount of tree growth, right and certainly, 0:07:28.920 --> 0:07:32.280 you know, that has has impacted everything. It's impacted the 0:07:32.920 --> 0:07:36.320 turf conditions, it's impacted the site lines, and so you know, 0:07:36.520 --> 0:07:39.320 I think, I think it's clear to us that we 0:07:39.400 --> 0:07:41.240 need to, you know, to peel back some of that. 0:07:41.960 --> 0:07:46.040 I think where there's opportunities. Such a beautiful site, you know, 0:07:46.440 --> 0:07:48.840 it's you know, part of Florida's nature coast, and you 0:07:48.880 --> 0:07:51.600 really feel it when you're out there. It feels like 0:07:51.640 --> 0:07:55.200 a real retreat to nature. And so I mean, I 0:07:55.240 --> 0:07:58.680 want to get it to a place that it's very walkable, 0:07:58.720 --> 0:08:02.400 which you know, in m times over the last over 0:08:02.400 --> 0:08:04.520 the last year, really spending a lot of time there, 0:08:04.600 --> 0:08:06.880 you rarely see anybody walk it, and it's such a 0:08:06.880 --> 0:08:09.800 great piece of ground to walk. So I think, you know, 0:08:10.080 --> 0:08:12.320 those are those are sort of the two obvious things 0:08:12.360 --> 0:08:15.160 that that we need to do. And and I think, 0:08:15.720 --> 0:08:17.840 you know, I think bring it to bring it to 0:08:17.880 --> 0:08:22.080 the market with and you know, a fresh a fresh look, 0:08:22.160 --> 0:08:25.760 and and I think it's probably I don't know where 0:08:26.360 --> 0:08:30.960 you know, and where restoration renovation meet, but it's probably 0:08:31.000 --> 0:08:31.840 somewhere in between them. 0:08:32.559 --> 0:08:35.160 Yeah, it's it's the line gets more and more blurred, 0:08:35.160 --> 0:08:38.440 seemingly every day. So it's it's so I never know 0:08:38.480 --> 0:08:41.520 what to call things that you know, there's ditig changes, 0:08:41.600 --> 0:08:44.000 but it's mostly back. It's like you you know, is 0:08:44.040 --> 0:08:46.480 it a restivation, which you know is a word I 0:08:46.480 --> 0:08:48.680 don't want to use ever, but it seems like there 0:08:48.720 --> 0:08:49.000 you go. 0:08:49.080 --> 0:08:51.600 I like it. I'm gonna I'm gonna say, I'm gonna 0:08:51.600 --> 0:08:54.600 start quoting you and saying that, so there you go. 0:08:55.280 --> 0:08:58.040 It's it's not a fun word to say, but the 0:08:59.000 --> 0:09:02.080 having I have a something that's high on my list 0:09:02.120 --> 0:09:04.520 of places to go, which is a long list, but 0:09:04.920 --> 0:09:08.040 that's high up there is is Cape Breton and to 0:09:08.120 --> 0:09:11.880 see you know, Cabot Lakes and Cabot Cliffs. But you know, 0:09:12.120 --> 0:09:14.480 seeing that I haven't been there, I thought, you know, 0:09:14.520 --> 0:09:16.720 one of the things that I really wanted to discuss 0:09:16.800 --> 0:09:20.640 with you is is your journey as an entrepreneur, because 0:09:20.679 --> 0:09:23.560 I think that's one of the most interesting, you know, 0:09:23.679 --> 0:09:27.880 stories about you know, this, this Cabot is seemingly you know, 0:09:27.960 --> 0:09:30.720 you kind of hacked, not hacked, but worked your way 0:09:30.760 --> 0:09:33.800 into the golf space and worked your way into one 0:09:33.840 --> 0:09:36.720 of the most envious roles in the golf space as 0:09:36.760 --> 0:09:40.240 a you know, a large scale now golf developer, so 0:09:40.480 --> 0:09:44.040 I'd love to go back to to the beginning, and 0:09:44.600 --> 0:09:47.160 you know, could you describe a little bit like, you 0:09:47.200 --> 0:09:50.480 know what drove you in your mid twenties when so 0:09:50.559 --> 0:09:53.640 many people were out at the bar being idiots to 0:09:54.320 --> 0:09:57.760 attempt to build a world class golf resort. 0:09:57.880 --> 0:10:00.440 Take us back to you know what what got you there? 0:10:01.679 --> 0:10:06.760 Well, you know, I think I probably started a little 0:10:06.760 --> 0:10:10.120 bit earlier than that, and I was drawing golf holes 0:10:10.559 --> 0:10:14.280 at a young age, and my mom thankfully kept binders 0:10:14.280 --> 0:10:17.880 of the golf holes. But I would, you know, watch golf. 0:10:17.920 --> 0:10:21.600 I'd read about golf. I remember, you know, you may 0:10:21.640 --> 0:10:25.480 be too young, but I remember getting up at eleven 0:10:25.600 --> 0:10:29.000 thirty five on in the evening and I was allowed 0:10:29.040 --> 0:10:31.400 to as a kid, and watching the Masters highlights on 0:10:31.480 --> 0:10:34.319 CPS on Thursday and Friday, just ahead of the light show. 0:10:34.400 --> 0:10:37.360 And you know that was all you knew about the Masters. 0:10:37.360 --> 0:10:40.240 And I mean I knew, you know, I was sure 0:10:40.240 --> 0:10:42.560 at you know, eleven, I knew how every putt broke, 0:10:42.679 --> 0:10:45.440 and you know, I just loved the game. But I 0:10:45.480 --> 0:10:49.559 really loved golf courses. And so I built a golf hole. 0:10:49.960 --> 0:10:52.199 And I guess when I was maybe eleven or twelve, 0:10:52.240 --> 0:10:53.880 in our family farm, and I had a whole bunch 0:10:53.960 --> 0:10:58.880 of teas and my drawings on golf, you know, which 0:10:59.559 --> 0:11:02.559 I don't at any of the great architects who are 0:11:02.600 --> 0:11:07.559 mostly my friends. See, we're heavily inspired by you know, 0:11:07.880 --> 0:11:10.840 Pete Dye at his at his most you know, sort 0:11:10.840 --> 0:11:16.120 of do or died dramatic over water, you know, stuff 0:11:16.160 --> 0:11:19.240 a lot of split fairways and and all of those things. 0:11:19.280 --> 0:11:21.240 But so, I mean I loved I just loved golf, 0:11:22.000 --> 0:11:23.560 you know, from a young age, and that sort of 0:11:23.600 --> 0:11:26.280 got me into the business and at the beginning of 0:11:26.320 --> 0:11:30.400 the Internet, and you know, through a golf travel business, 0:11:30.400 --> 0:11:34.079 in golf marketing, I got to travel and play most 0:11:34.120 --> 0:11:36.640 most all of the world's great golf courses. And so 0:11:37.520 --> 0:11:38.880 you know, I sort of had the best job in 0:11:38.920 --> 0:11:41.360 the world. And I'd created that for myself, and that 0:11:41.559 --> 0:11:47.400 was my you know, my early twenties and so having 0:11:47.559 --> 0:11:49.800 rose colored glasses on and having seen most of the 0:11:49.840 --> 0:11:53.400 world's great places. And but I've been looking at sites 0:11:53.400 --> 0:11:56.160 for golf, as any entrepreneur with not enough money to 0:11:56.160 --> 0:12:00.360 build a golf course would be doing. And and I 0:12:00.400 --> 0:12:02.920 was at a dinner in Toronto, which is you know, 0:12:03.000 --> 0:12:06.240 his home and was home then, and I was seated 0:12:06.240 --> 0:12:08.679 next to the Minister of Tourism from Nova Scotia who 0:12:08.720 --> 0:12:11.559 was there playing the fiddle. And I was predisposed to 0:12:11.640 --> 0:12:14.160 loving Cape Bretton Island. I've been there and my wife's 0:12:14.160 --> 0:12:17.600 family for grandmother's one hundred and four and still lives 0:12:17.600 --> 0:12:19.120 in Cape Breton, so we'd been there in the summer. 0:12:19.200 --> 0:12:23.079 But he said, I know, I know, good gene. So 0:12:24.480 --> 0:12:27.440 he said, you know, look, I've got this great site 0:12:27.520 --> 0:12:30.559 for golf. And I said, Minister, honestly, every farmer I've 0:12:30.559 --> 0:12:32.640 ever met with two hundred acres since they've got the 0:12:32.679 --> 0:12:36.679 next great site for golf. And you know I was, 0:12:36.440 --> 0:12:38.800 I guess I was twenty four, And you know, he 0:12:38.920 --> 0:12:41.000 thankfully didn't think I was too much of a jerk 0:12:41.080 --> 0:12:43.319 for saying that and got the jest, but said, no, 0:12:43.440 --> 0:12:47.200 this is the real deal. And you know, Jack Jack 0:12:47.280 --> 0:12:50.200 Nicholas had done a routing plan, and you know Grand Cook, 0:12:50.240 --> 0:12:52.679 a Canadian architect, had looked at my cards and had 0:12:52.679 --> 0:12:54.559 called it one of the great sites left for golf. 0:12:54.600 --> 0:12:56.920 So again, it wasn't my original idea at all. And 0:12:57.600 --> 0:13:01.360 the town of Inverness had really thought about thought about 0:13:01.360 --> 0:13:04.600 golf as far back as nineteen sixty nine and had 0:13:04.600 --> 0:13:07.080 a very clear vision that the site was different than 0:13:07.080 --> 0:13:11.000 a mile of ocean frontage and then the town. And 0:13:11.040 --> 0:13:12.960 it was because there was this old coal mine that 0:13:13.120 --> 0:13:16.240 was you know, had been dug down three hundred feet 0:13:16.280 --> 0:13:18.400 and went a mile out under the ocean floor. And 0:13:19.120 --> 0:13:21.560 you know, so it had been obviously very hard and 0:13:21.600 --> 0:13:24.040 nobody had been able to assemble all the land. And 0:13:24.760 --> 0:13:27.640 you know, the photos he had weren't great, they're pretty, 0:13:27.720 --> 0:13:29.400 you know, they were aerials, but you got a sense 0:13:29.400 --> 0:13:31.640 that there was a mile of sand beach and a 0:13:31.679 --> 0:13:34.720 town called Inverness that was built. And I thought, in 0:13:34.760 --> 0:13:36.959 two thousand and four, where in the world are you 0:13:36.960 --> 0:13:38.640 going to get to build a links golf course in 0:13:38.640 --> 0:13:41.800 between a town and an ocean. You know, Dornic at 0:13:41.840 --> 0:13:43.800 four hundred years old and Saint Andrews a five hundre 0:13:43.880 --> 0:13:45.360 years old. You know, those towns start of grew up 0:13:45.360 --> 0:13:48.000 around the gulf. This was sort of the inverse and 0:13:48.080 --> 0:13:50.760 I just thought, seemed like, you know, the greatest idea 0:13:50.760 --> 0:13:53.600 in the history of humankind. And I went and saw 0:13:53.640 --> 0:13:58.840 it on a December day and it was a beautiful 0:13:58.920 --> 0:14:00.760 day and the sun was shining, and I could see 0:14:00.760 --> 0:14:02.520 all these golf holes and it was a really really 0:14:02.600 --> 0:14:06.680 beautiful sight. And I went back with Rod Whitman three 0:14:06.720 --> 0:14:09.200 weeks later and it was a less beautiful day and 0:14:09.200 --> 0:14:13.240 the wind was whipping and you know, Rod said he 0:14:13.240 --> 0:14:15.960 couldn't see it because his eyes were frozen shot, which 0:14:16.000 --> 0:14:17.800 was a bit of a tough way to, you know, 0:14:17.880 --> 0:14:20.440 to start, and he was he was joking too, but 0:14:20.560 --> 0:14:22.920 we got we got through those early days and then 0:14:22.920 --> 0:14:25.320 I had my first meeting, thinking it was such a 0:14:25.320 --> 0:14:27.560 great idea and was told it was the worst idea 0:14:28.320 --> 0:14:31.440 by this banker that he'd ever heard, and so, you know, 0:14:31.520 --> 0:14:34.080 and so look, I mean it was. It was a 0:14:34.240 --> 0:14:38.280 very tough land. Assembly took me about three years, and 0:14:40.440 --> 0:14:43.560 I had all sorts of ideas of how I would 0:14:43.560 --> 0:14:47.080 find enough money to build it, and you know, I 0:14:47.160 --> 0:14:51.040 called Mike and I called Mike Kaiser pretty early on 0:14:51.120 --> 0:14:53.160 after seeing it, and he was about to help abandoned 0:14:53.160 --> 0:14:56.000 trails and Barnboogle had just dumpened, and you know, he 0:14:56.000 --> 0:14:58.440 said he was long remote golf, but you know, in 0:14:58.520 --> 0:15:01.640 sort of Mike's amazing way, he said, Ben, you know, wait, 0:15:01.760 --> 0:15:03.840 you're you're going to be a huge success. And when 0:15:03.880 --> 0:15:05.800 you are, you won't be able to afford more land, 0:15:05.920 --> 0:15:08.560 so you've got to go get you know, land for 0:15:08.600 --> 0:15:10.960 the second course now. And I said, gosh, you know, Mike, 0:15:11.760 --> 0:15:13.960 you know pretty young, I don't have enough money to 0:15:14.000 --> 0:15:15.600 build the first course. I don't think I would need 0:15:15.640 --> 0:15:18.000 to go longer on real estate. And he said, no, no, no, 0:15:18.040 --> 0:15:20.600 you got to do it. So while we were assembling 0:15:20.680 --> 0:15:22.640 all of the pieces that made up cab At Links, 0:15:22.680 --> 0:15:24.960 we started to, you know, look to the land at 0:15:25.040 --> 0:15:30.200 Cabot Cliffs and I think, you know, Mike, and Mike, 0:15:30.320 --> 0:15:32.680 like so many people, probably thought it was a long 0:15:32.720 --> 0:15:34.920 shot that I would be able to assemble the land, 0:15:34.920 --> 0:15:37.680 which thankfully I didn't, you know, in my naivety, I 0:15:37.680 --> 0:15:40.720 didn't know it would be so hard. But I had 0:15:40.760 --> 0:15:43.760 time and you know, and a little bit of persistence, 0:15:43.800 --> 0:15:46.440 and as it became clear I would yet the land, 0:15:46.480 --> 0:15:48.800 I circled back to Mike because there was really no 0:15:48.880 --> 0:15:51.480 one else, I mean everybody else. When I'd talk about 0:15:51.480 --> 0:15:54.080 plans of walking only in Links golf, you know, they 0:15:54.600 --> 0:15:58.160 had visions of cart paths and you know, green checkerboard fairways. 0:15:58.200 --> 0:16:01.480 So you know, Mike none of that stuff. Obviously, He's 0:16:01.520 --> 0:16:03.440 like well of courses walking only like you know what 0:16:03.520 --> 0:16:05.600 idiot would do anything else he would miss at that. 0:16:05.760 --> 0:16:09.560 But you know, basically his tone would have been and so, 0:16:09.840 --> 0:16:13.240 you know, I think I think he just got everything 0:16:13.920 --> 0:16:17.480 I was. I was sort of envisioning and and look, 0:16:17.520 --> 0:16:20.560 I mean, who who better? I mean, aside from having 0:16:20.600 --> 0:16:23.440 done bandon and and you know, sort of the obvious, 0:16:24.080 --> 0:16:29.200 the father of remote destination golf. He really, you know, 0:16:29.360 --> 0:16:33.360 he really was just an amazing exemplar and and you know, 0:16:33.440 --> 0:16:36.440 a wonderful you know, friend, partner, teacher, all of the 0:16:36.640 --> 0:16:39.360 all the things you could ever hope for. So and so, 0:16:39.440 --> 0:16:42.800 if I am in an enviable position today, it's it's 0:16:42.960 --> 0:16:45.560 a lot of dumb luck and uh and more Mike 0:16:45.600 --> 0:16:46.800 Guyser than anything else. 0:16:47.640 --> 0:16:50.440 Yeah, I think you're downplaying yourself. You know, It's something 0:16:50.480 --> 0:16:52.760 that resonates with me as the you know, the people 0:16:53.240 --> 0:16:56.200 I used to work for a tech startup that was 0:16:56.240 --> 0:16:59.040 funded by Mark Andrewson and Ben Horowitz, who are you know, 0:16:59.240 --> 0:17:02.080 renowned in the tech community, you know, arguably the most 0:17:02.080 --> 0:17:06.360 successful venture capital fund in the world. And Ben Horowitz 0:17:06.359 --> 0:17:09.320 gave a talk at our office one day, and you know, 0:17:09.520 --> 0:17:12.560 he told our group that they don't invest in any 0:17:12.600 --> 0:17:16.000 idea that at least one of their partners doesn't say 0:17:16.200 --> 0:17:19.520 is the worst idea in the world. Because if everybody 0:17:19.560 --> 0:17:22.639 says it's a great idea, somebody's tried and failed. So 0:17:23.240 --> 0:17:26.240 it's interesting because that's something that I think is smart. 0:17:26.280 --> 0:17:28.280 When I think back to be starting the Fried Egg, 0:17:28.359 --> 0:17:30.760 I was a horrible writer, horrible public speaker, and I 0:17:30.800 --> 0:17:33.359 started a business that centered around that. 0:17:33.359 --> 0:17:34.359 That was a dumb idea. 0:17:34.480 --> 0:17:37.520 Most people would say that's idiotic, but it takes you know, 0:17:38.080 --> 0:17:41.400 that's what it takes to start something and do something different. 0:17:42.200 --> 0:17:45.240 I'd love to go back a little bit and talk 0:17:45.280 --> 0:17:47.919 about the land. So you hear about this land, You 0:17:47.960 --> 0:17:49.680 go to the land, you see it, you bring around 0:17:49.720 --> 0:17:53.560 whitman out who owned the land? Were there different owners 0:17:53.560 --> 0:17:56.000 of different parcels? How did you put it together? And 0:17:56.280 --> 0:17:58.960 were there any you know, any crazy stories like who 0:17:59.000 --> 0:18:01.119 were the people that owned this land? Obviously it's an 0:18:01.119 --> 0:18:05.879 old mining town. There had to be some interesting deals 0:18:06.000 --> 0:18:06.960 in that process. 0:18:07.680 --> 0:18:10.880 Well, I mean, you know, look, there were there were 0:18:11.720 --> 0:18:14.800 an awful lot of land transactions in between links and cliffs, 0:18:15.080 --> 0:18:17.920 and you know, I think there's there's more than forty 0:18:18.320 --> 0:18:21.320 forty parcels of land that we acquired. But I think 0:18:21.359 --> 0:18:24.199 the thing, you know, again back to the idea of 0:18:24.280 --> 0:18:27.400 golf not being not being an original one of mine. 0:18:27.440 --> 0:18:30.120 And in Burness, the thing that was amazing on that 0:18:30.160 --> 0:18:32.200 first day, Andy was I went and I was met 0:18:33.119 --> 0:18:37.159 by a group of a group of men and you 0:18:37.200 --> 0:18:39.800 know who had really fostered this dream. And again when 0:18:39.840 --> 0:18:43.080 they had been told it was insane, it would never work, 0:18:43.200 --> 0:18:45.920 a golf course would never work. You know, they were 0:18:45.920 --> 0:18:48.240 told to build a three star golf course. I didn't 0:18:48.240 --> 0:18:50.680 really know what that meant, but you know, like they 0:18:50.720 --> 0:18:52.800 sort of had, you know, they'd been through the ringer 0:18:52.880 --> 0:18:55.720 and they'd had their hopes, you know, rise and fall 0:18:55.840 --> 0:18:59.320 so many times. And these were all volunteers in the community. 0:18:59.359 --> 0:19:03.439 It was, know, and the dentist in town, the superintendent 0:19:03.440 --> 0:19:07.840 of education, principle, you know, just people who had grown 0:19:07.920 --> 0:19:11.920 up in their community. And you can imagine a vibrant 0:19:11.920 --> 0:19:14.959 mining community one hundred years ago that had a population 0:19:15.119 --> 0:19:17.720 far greater than the town you know was when I 0:19:17.760 --> 0:19:20.800 arrived there, that had sort of lost its economic engine, 0:19:21.119 --> 0:19:23.040 you know, fifty years ago. It would have been easy 0:19:23.119 --> 0:19:26.680 to be skeptical in particularly because they felt like they'd 0:19:26.680 --> 0:19:30.439 been on the cusp of success so many times, you know, 0:19:30.600 --> 0:19:34.320 So they were not just supportive of the vision. They 0:19:34.359 --> 0:19:37.760 had really had the vision that this could be transformative 0:19:37.760 --> 0:19:40.240 and a transformed economic engine. And I think had it 0:19:40.320 --> 0:19:42.399 not been that, it wouldn't have been possible. So they 0:19:42.800 --> 0:19:47.280 and they were members of the Invernest Development Association, which 0:19:47.320 --> 0:19:49.960 owned a couple of parcels the province of Nova Scotia 0:19:50.040 --> 0:19:53.560 and some of the land at the municipality of Inverness, 0:19:54.200 --> 0:19:57.000 and there were two businesses that own the land and 0:19:57.040 --> 0:20:00.879 so but you know, it really was the bulk of 0:20:00.920 --> 0:20:06.080 it was largely controlled by this by this group, the 0:20:06.119 --> 0:20:10.119 Internet Development Association, and led by these town fathers who 0:20:10.240 --> 0:20:12.679 just had a vision that they needed an economic engine. 0:20:12.680 --> 0:20:18.240 And my, my sort of if I have one piece 0:20:18.280 --> 0:20:21.399 of wonderment looking back on it, you know, seventeen years later, 0:20:21.520 --> 0:20:24.920 it's that we, you know, we were able to assemble 0:20:24.960 --> 0:20:28.320 that ocean frontage and and give you know, Rod and 0:20:28.359 --> 0:20:32.040 then laterally Bill and Ben and at Cabot Cliffs the 0:20:32.119 --> 0:20:34.440 chance to you know, to build golf on the sea 0:20:34.600 --> 0:20:38.000 and in a wonderful community. And and I think when 0:20:38.600 --> 0:20:41.960 you know, there's absolutely no no doubt in my mind 0:20:42.040 --> 0:20:45.600 that when Mike agreed to partner and that was announced. 0:20:45.640 --> 0:20:48.679 I think you know that the town fathers would have 0:20:48.680 --> 0:20:51.520 thought their prayers had been answered. And then obviously the 0:20:52.080 --> 0:20:55.240 great to the Great financial crisis of eight you know, 0:20:55.400 --> 0:20:58.080 sort of threatened to derail us. But we persisted through 0:20:58.119 --> 0:21:03.880 that and then opened and had had some early success 0:21:03.920 --> 0:21:07.640 and built on that with clifts and opened the Nastar 0:21:07.720 --> 0:21:10.040 Part three last summer, and you know, keep trying to 0:21:10.040 --> 0:21:12.200 come up with fun things to do there. 0:21:14.520 --> 0:21:17.520 Now for a quick word from our sponsor, Meridian. 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