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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio news. This is Bloomberg Business

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Speaker 1: Weekdaily reporting from the magazine that helps global leaders stay

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Speaker 1: ahead with insight on the people, companies, and trends shaping

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Speaker 1: today's complex economy. Plus global business, finance and tech news

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Speaker 1: as it happens. The Bloomberg Business Week Daily Podcast with

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Speaker 1: Carol Masser and Tim Stenebeck on Bloomberg Radio.

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Speaker 2: While the most watched sports showdown on Earth, we're talking

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Speaker 2: about not the next game, but we'll get to that.

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Speaker 2: We're talking about the FIFA World Cup, starting today in

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Speaker 2: Mexico City. This year's games hosted in three countries. You

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Speaker 2: know that US, Mexico, and Canada, across sixteen cities, forty

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Speaker 2: eight teams competing. Tim Nut's the most ever.

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Speaker 3: It comes as the event is being overshadowed by political tensions,

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Speaker 3: conflicts between the US and Iran, driving a fuel prices,

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Speaker 3: creating economic strain for fans. We've got a great duo

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Speaker 3: joining us that knows a thing or two when it

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Speaker 3: comes to the business of sports.

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Speaker 2: They know everything about sports with us is Redel Williams.

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Speaker 2: He's Bloomberg New senior reporter. He's right here in our

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Speaker 2: new York studio Vanessa Perdomo magleone. She's a Bloomberg New

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Speaker 2: Sports business reporter as well in the Bloomberg News Princeton

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Speaker 2: bureau out there.

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Speaker 4: Hello.

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Speaker 5: Hello, both by the way, co hosts.

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Speaker 2: Of the Business of Sports podcast, which if you're not

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Speaker 2: listening to, shame on you download it because it's really good.

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Speaker 3: Thanks.

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Speaker 5: All right, you're welcome, Randall. I'm going to start with you.

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Speaker 2: You're right here in studio, tell us about this is

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Speaker 2: a big deal, and we've been talking about it.

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Speaker 5: I feel like forever it's getting underway.

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Speaker 6: It has been a large conversation for many months and years,

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Speaker 6: and now we're finally here. We are as it sits

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Speaker 6: right now, eighteen minutes away from not tip off, but kickoff.

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Speaker 6: I was tip off is yesterday. But it's tremendous. I

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Speaker 6: think that things will really come into effect. We'll feel

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Speaker 6: it on Saturday when on Saturday when the matches really

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Speaker 6: begin and there's a match at MetLife and I think

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Speaker 6: the Team USA plays on Friday, right, Vanessa.

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Speaker 3: Do I have that right?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 7: Oh, they play Friday in Sofi Stadium in La so when.

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Speaker 6: Team USA plays, I expect a large crowd. I expect

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Speaker 6: the excitement to kick up.

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Speaker 3: But Vanessa, how good is Team USA? I mean, help

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Speaker 3: set expectations here. I mean, this is the thing, you know, soccer.

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Speaker 3: It's globally, it's huge here in the US, it is growing,

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Speaker 3: it is big. But we're not even close to the best.

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Speaker 7: We're definitely not close to the best him, that's definitely correct.

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Speaker 7: But we are better than I think people might think

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Speaker 7: that we are. You know, I think that the US

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Speaker 7: is going to do well. I think they're going to

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Speaker 7: definitely get out of their group. They might have the

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Speaker 7: potential to win the group. And I think if they

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Speaker 7: really you know, I was talking to Alexei Lalls recently

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Speaker 7: and he played in the nineteen ninety four World Cup,

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Speaker 7: and he really was iterating to me that how important

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Speaker 7: a home World Cup really is. And the US aren't

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Speaker 7: expected to go very far, but I think if they're

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Speaker 7: able to really capture the audience is the way that

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Speaker 7: we've seen, you know, in past World Cups, I think

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Speaker 7: that it might be able to do something special and

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Speaker 7: get to the quarterfinals or something like that, or some

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Speaker 7: further further than we've ever seen before. I think they

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Speaker 7: can capture the magic. That's really what's important. They have

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Speaker 7: to feel it.

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Speaker 2: I gotta say, I want to talk more about the

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Speaker 2: games itself and who's playing all that, but the cost

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Speaker 2: of the World Cup, like all the things like transportation.

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Speaker 3: In nineteen ninety four, it was only twenty five or

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Speaker 3: sixty five bucks a ticket.

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Speaker 6: Now that's not even going to get you onto the

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Speaker 6: New Jersey transit.

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Speaker 8: To get all I know combined.

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Speaker 2: By the way, I got to say that Dan hunt

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Speaker 2: Cohene or president of the Dallas Football Club, he waited

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Speaker 2: on FIFA World Cup ticketing prices.

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Speaker 5: Just listen up, guys.

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Speaker 9: The rollout is a little bit non traditional how we

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Speaker 9: would do it in American sports. But FIFA has their

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Speaker 9: way of doing it, and they've gotten some criticism over

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Speaker 9: the prices, and they went back and repriced some cheaper tickets.

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Speaker 3: And what I would say, you.

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Speaker 9: Know, is there's a market demand for this, and the

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Speaker 9: revenue they generate from the World Cup supports occer globally.

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Speaker 9: Their initiatives from grassroots to growing the men's game, growing

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Speaker 9: the women's game, all the money associated with prize money,

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Speaker 9: player money to clubs, and just in developing nations and

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Speaker 9: helping the game along. And this is really their pinnacle

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Speaker 9: you know, tent pole moment that they have every four years,

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Speaker 9: and so I know there's a it's a delicate balance, right.

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Speaker 9: You want it affordable for fans because fans make the game,

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Speaker 9: but you also need to be able to have, you know,

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Speaker 9: the money to help support the game for the next

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Speaker 9: four years.

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Speaker 2: I got to say, you could hear that in so

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Speaker 2: many different marketplaces. That's Dan Hunt Cohener and president of

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Speaker 2: Dallas Football Club, Vanessa.

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Speaker 5: Let me just get you to weigh in on that.

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Speaker 10: Is he right?

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Speaker 2: Like this supports a lot of stuff out there.

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Speaker 5: Doesn't have to be so expensively, no.

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Speaker 7: I mean, it doesn't have to be so expensive. It

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Speaker 7: really doesn't. And obviously it hasn't been so expensive in

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Speaker 7: the past World Cups. I mean, yes, nineteen ninety four

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Speaker 7: was a very different time, so we can't really note

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Speaker 7: to those ticket prices. But just even in twenty twenty two,

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Speaker 7: ticket prices were you know, six to seven times cheaper

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Speaker 7: than this or ticket prices now for group sage matches

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Speaker 7: that we weren't even seeing for last for twenty twenty

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Speaker 7: two is final, you know, so it doesn't have to

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Speaker 7: be this way, but people wanted to take advantage of

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Speaker 7: the US ticket market. That's exactly what you know. Me

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Speaker 7: and Rydell have been having these conversations. That's what they say.

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Speaker 7: They knew resale was going to be a problem and

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Speaker 7: they wanted to get in on the game as well.

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Speaker 3: Is reseale randall a problem right now? I mean I've

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Speaker 3: talked to friends who are going. A friend, like I've

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Speaker 3: said before, he's went a five games Seattle, New York, LA,

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Speaker 3: and he has money.

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Speaker 8: He is.

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Speaker 3: He told me in nineteen ninety four I was seven

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Speaker 3: years old, I couldn't go to any games. I vowed then,

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Speaker 3: and he's literally been saving out for years. He says

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Speaker 3: the LA game is much cheaper because they didn't they

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Speaker 3: didn't price it right.

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Speaker 6: Well, I think in terms of what is the right

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Speaker 6: price for these things is if you think of what

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Speaker 6: is the normal first sport the kids play, it is

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Speaker 6: soccer because it is so cheap. However, think about the

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Speaker 6: kids who, let's say are pre k to high school.

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Speaker 6: They're going to be relying on their parents. So if

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Speaker 6: it costs you eight hundred dollars for family of four

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Speaker 6: one individual ticket each, that's thirty two hundred dollars. How

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Speaker 6: many families of four are going to be able to

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Speaker 6: pay that. And this isn't This isn't just group stage,

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Speaker 6: This isn't just quarterfinals. These are group stage matches. These

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Speaker 6: are matches that feature countries that we might not know

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Speaker 6: or might not know players who are playing for them. Now,

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Speaker 6: just imagine what it's going to cost to see Lionel

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Speaker 6: Messi play.

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Speaker 5: So are the tickets selling They are.

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Speaker 6: But it remains to be seen what the audience looks

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Speaker 6: like in these stadiums. There are tickets that are being

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Speaker 6: sold in all these places, and the prices are slowly

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Speaker 6: but surely coming down. And there's a possibility that, you know,

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Speaker 6: shortly before I match, FIFA could slash the prices and

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Speaker 6: then people flock to the stadiums. That's also something that

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Speaker 6: could happen. But you're talking about FIFA, which is projected

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Speaker 6: to net over ten billion dollars in revenue. That's a

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Speaker 6: lot of money over the course of like less than

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Speaker 6: sixty days. However, at what cost?

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Speaker 5: I have to say.

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Speaker 2: The Bloomberg Business Week Daily team has its own soccer expert.

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Speaker 2: It is known as Sebastian Escobar, and he say, Club

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Speaker 2: World Cup last year had many empty seats.

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Speaker 3: Community.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, hey, we're gonna switch gears. We got to talk

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Speaker 2: about the next game last night, if we can. We

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Speaker 2: are all in soccer, but we got to talk about it. Vanessa,

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Speaker 2: come on in man, what a game. If you went

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Speaker 2: to sleep early, you might have missed and not would

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Speaker 2: have been surprised by the outcome.

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Speaker 5: I don't know how you thinking about where we go

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Speaker 5: from here.

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Speaker 6: She's about to do.

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Speaker 7: First of all, if you you went to sleep early

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Speaker 7: last name, you missed history. You missed history. Last night

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Speaker 7: it was the biggest comeback, you know, in an NBA

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Speaker 7: playoff history. It was absolutely incredible. You know, I was

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Speaker 7: watching from a scene from a bar in Queens. It

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Speaker 7: was electric at the end, you know, it was unbelievable.

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Speaker 7: So I think from here the series is over. Randall,

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Speaker 7: you were in the building.

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Speaker 3: You were there, Randall, I was.

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Speaker 1: I was.

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Speaker 6: That was the loudest arena that I've ever been in.

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Speaker 10: By far.

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Speaker 6: It was the concourse was shaking. I mean, Mike Brain

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Speaker 6: said it on the broadcast, this building is shaking. No,

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Speaker 6: it was legitimately shaking. And they and I mean, you

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Speaker 6: have to think a tremendous comeback, because I believe it

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Speaker 6: was seventy six to forty nine at halftime. Yeah, and

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Speaker 6: at that point the Spurs scored thirty points the rest

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Speaker 6: of the game a tremendous defensive effort. And I think

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Speaker 6: in this aspect, I'm joking with Vanessa, but she's probably right.

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Speaker 6: When you give up a twenty nine point lead and

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Speaker 6: then you have to go home and play a team

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Speaker 6: that you haven't beat in your own house, it's kind

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Speaker 6: of over great.

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Speaker 7: One point lead is like, I mean, that is the

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Speaker 7: most sole crushing thing ever.

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Speaker 3: Maybe if you're not a New Yorker.

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Speaker 5: Exactly right, exactly, you guys are amazing.

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Speaker 2: They're the co hosts of the Business of Sports podcast

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Speaker 2: Randall Williams and Vanessa Potomo Perdomo Maglio and both Bloomberg

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Speaker 2: News senior reporter.

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Speaker 3: And stay with us more from Bloomberg Business Week Daily

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Speaker 3: coming up after this.

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Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week Daily podcast. Catch

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Speaker 1: us live weekday afternoons from two to five e's during

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Speaker 1: or watch us Live on YouTube.

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Speaker 3: The headlines were SpaceX, they just keep crossing. We just

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Speaker 3: heard just an update SpaceX filing a free writing perspectives.

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Speaker 3: It lists price to public as one hundred and thirty

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Speaker 3: five dollars a share, shares offered five hundred and fifty

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Speaker 3: five point five to six million, not a surprise if

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Speaker 3: you've been paying attention those numbers. That is also the

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Speaker 3: company's poised to make history with the biggest ever IPO,

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Speaker 3: launching it into the top ranks the largest public companies,

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Speaker 3: putting founder Elon Musk on the verge carol of becoming

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Speaker 3: the world's first trillionaire.

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Speaker 5: It will trade on Nasdaq and Nasdaq Tech Texas. In

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Speaker 5: case you were wondering, yes, you weren't sure.

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Speaker 2: I mean, we're getting all of these details. We want

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Speaker 2: to get into it. There's a lot going on because

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Speaker 2: there's so many different moving parts. We have so many

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Speaker 2: bankers involved, twenty three firms putting the finishing touches on.

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Speaker 2: They expected seventy five billion dollar IPO and again getting

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Speaker 2: ready for this to kick off tomorrow.

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Speaker 3: We got ad Love though with us. He's the co

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Speaker 3: host of Bloomberg Tech Bailey Lipscholtz too, he's Bloomberg News

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Speaker 3: IPO reporter. They both join us here in the Bloomberg

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Speaker 3: Interactive Brokers studio. You guys have both covered a lot

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Speaker 3: of IPOs. Bailey, I want to start with you, is

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Speaker 3: it is it fair to say demand for SpaceX is

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Speaker 3: out of this world?

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Speaker 4: Out of this world? But is it better than Sarah Bros.

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Speaker 4: Was a stock that is near to your heart? No,

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Speaker 4: but not by definition as it relates to the actual

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Speaker 4: sheer account available. But but ed it's one of those

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Speaker 4: funny things where you go, Okay, it's more than four

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Speaker 4: times over subscribe, but then you do the back of

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Speaker 4: the envelope math and say.

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Speaker 11: Well, that's a lot of orders.

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Speaker 4: So in terms of sheer net demand, yes, But in

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Speaker 4: terms of like over subscribe books, we've seen a number

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Speaker 4: of deals like twenty thirty forty five times over subscribing.

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Speaker 3: That's normal. So what's so what's the signal here that

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Speaker 3: this is sending us?

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Speaker 8: I mean people by buy into the story that you

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Speaker 8: know the thing about the also, Bailey like, let's just

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Speaker 8: be sort of boring and old fashioned about this for

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Speaker 8: a minute. There's a lot that's unknown, the allocations on set, right.

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Speaker 8: We put a lot of reporting into all of these

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Speaker 8: big institutions placing orders and the billions of dollars it's

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Speaker 8: great to place an order, doesn't mean you'll get it

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Speaker 8: that gets decided in real time right now. And you know,

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Speaker 8: I think what, without speaking on his behalf, what are

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Speaker 8: reporting as a newsroom shows is that Elon Musk and

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Speaker 8: the rest of space X management have been very in

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Speaker 8: control of this process, dictating the terms literally, but also

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Speaker 8: who's going to get access in the end the retail portion. Again,

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Speaker 8: when it gets settled on a percentage basis or a

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Speaker 8: dollar basis, there will be loads of people around the

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Speaker 8: world that will be very disappointed. So that actually it's

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Speaker 8: academic what happens tomorrow when it starts trading.

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Speaker 2: You know, Okay, there's the excitement around the IPO, and

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Speaker 2: it's hard not to the largest ideade.

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Speaker 8: Whoever, I'm stalling, by the way, because he's trying to

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Speaker 8: send messages to sources.

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Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, okay, but I guess what. Okay, so I'm

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Speaker 2: going to start with you. I mean, there's the excitement

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Speaker 2: over the IPO. Yay, we're going to get the first

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Speaker 2: day of trading.

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Speaker 5: I get it. I get the importance of it.

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Speaker 2: But then there's the actual business. I mean, this is

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Speaker 2: not a profitable business.

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Speaker 8: It's not. But you know, what's been very interesting in

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Speaker 8: the last week let's say, speaking to a lot of

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Speaker 8: existing investors and people that will participate in this IPO,

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Speaker 8: they're actually probably even more bullish on the nearer term

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Speaker 8: opportunity than SpaceX is set out in the prospectus. So,

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Speaker 8: actually the idea of orbital data centers, these are data

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Speaker 8: centers in the form of satellite going into deployment and

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Speaker 8: then generating revenues. Actually, you know a lot of people

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Speaker 8: I've spoken to very seriously believe that is more imminent

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Speaker 8: than SpaceX has said it is. They've said as early

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Speaker 8: as twenty twenty eight.

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Speaker 3: And Brett Wynton you had them on, Yeah, I mean

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Speaker 3: from inverse.

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Speaker 8: Ark investors, very bullish said.

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Speaker 3: Anything three hundred billion dollar.

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Speaker 8: Yeah, So let me explain as sixty years I can

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Speaker 8: his thesis.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Ark and Kathy Wood you know, I know some people

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Speaker 2: find her controversial and there's people who, you know, buy

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Speaker 2: what she says and there are others who don't. But

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Speaker 2: having said that, she was with you on from the

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Speaker 2: get go when everyone didn't. Was it really impressed with

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Speaker 2: what he was doing at Tesla. And it did take

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Speaker 2: a full you know, several years, and he didn't hit

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Speaker 2: all his deadlines.

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Speaker 5: But here you are so.

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Speaker 8: You always start with Elon Musk often misses the timelines

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Speaker 8: that he himself sets out, but gets there in the end.

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Speaker 8: This is a question about valuation, right, so this stock

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Speaker 8: will trade at one hundred times or ninety times current

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Speaker 8: revenues and forward twelve month revenues as best we can

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Speaker 8: calculate them. What Brett Winton and ARC's argument is is that, well, actually,

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Speaker 8: we have a lot of data available to us about starlink,

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Speaker 8: that is the business of internet and director sell based

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Speaker 8: on satellites. We know the cost of those satellites, we

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Speaker 8: know how many of them there are, we know the

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Speaker 8: dollar basis it takes to put them there. And all

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Speaker 8: he's doing is extrapolating out to the data center business

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Speaker 8: and saying, I actually can model for how quickly they

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Speaker 8: can book revenues on it with the big if they

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Speaker 8: get starship their big rocket to work simples.

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Speaker 3: Okay, Bailey's been on the Bloomberg terminal.

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Speaker 11: App on the phone because Ed gets the computer.

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Speaker 3: Okay for people, Sorry, what what do you we're talking about?

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Speaker 3: I'm just looking Aline reports the pricing of the IPO.

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Speaker 3: Formally it won thirty five, so not a surprise though, no,

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Speaker 3: not a surprise at all. Again, Elon kind of called

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Speaker 3: a shot in terms of this being a seventy five

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Speaker 3: billion dollar fundraise, this being a deal that comes to

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Speaker 3: one hundred and thirty five dollars each.

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Speaker 4: But it's official according to what we're reporting on the

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Speaker 4: terminal right now. And the reason that matters is now,

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Speaker 4: to Ed's point, everyone on the buy side is going

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Speaker 4: to figure out tonight early tomorrow morning what their allocation was,

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Speaker 4: and they're going to have to think through what they

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Speaker 4: want to do tomorrow.

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Speaker 3: Well tomorrow. You know, typically when when a company goes

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Speaker 3: public and has its first day of trading, there's this

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Speaker 3: price discovery moment. We don't know exactly what time shares

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Speaker 3: will start trading. Do we expect that to happen tomorrow?

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Speaker 9: Bailey?

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Speaker 3: Is it? Sometimes price discovery can take a really long time.

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Speaker 11: It can take a really long time.

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Speaker 4: I mean, we'll go typical normally in the ten o'clock hour,

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Speaker 4: we'll start getting indications from Nasdaq. The biggest thing to

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Speaker 4: keep in mind, indications mean everything and nothing. No one

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Speaker 4: is trading share soon. Remember that you can see an

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Speaker 4: indication though that says seven hundred dollars one thousand dollars

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Speaker 4: it means absolutely nothing. What matters is when we get

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Speaker 4: closer to that call it one o'clock two o'clock window,

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Speaker 4: when we get closer to the first trade that Morgan

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Speaker 4: Stanley is going to execute, what does that look like?

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Speaker 4: Because first trade actually does matter because someone bought and sold.

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Speaker 3: In that moment.

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Speaker 8: Sorry I'm typing, but I am listening.

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Speaker 2: No, no, no, no, it's just you know, listen again,

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Speaker 2: this is aprilagat.

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Speaker 3: Who's buying, who's who can buy it, who can actually sell?

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Speaker 8: So I think what's going to be more interesting, right,

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Speaker 8: is the retail allocation wherever it ends up. You know again,

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Speaker 8: there will be lots of individuals around the world super disappointed.

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Speaker 8: So the indication doesn't matter. It's it's largely a sentiment indicator,

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Speaker 8: and it's based on humans talking to one another. But

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Speaker 8: when the trade happens, you know what we heard on

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Speaker 8: television most television stay but also on the phone, is okay,

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Speaker 8: we open and it goes higher. Right, But even if

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Speaker 8: it starts trading at one pm Eastern and there's three

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Speaker 8: hours left in the session, it will be the first

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Speaker 8: opportunity for a lot of people to buy at that

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Speaker 8: start of trade, and they will want to try and

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Speaker 8: this this life changing amounts of gains, right, so they'll

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Speaker 8: want to sell it if it went to two hundred

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Speaker 8: to two.

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Speaker 5: This is hypothetical, so the volume could be crazy tomorrow.

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Speaker 8: Yeah, I don't know the answer. Who's yeah?

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Speaker 4: I mean no, it's everyone's open market, but it's only

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Speaker 4: people on the IPL. So there's seventy five billion dollars

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Speaker 4: afloat is what trades tomorrow.

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Speaker 11: There's there's no insider, there's no.

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Speaker 3: Long term employee. Everything. Do we have details on the locker?

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Speaker 11: Lockup starts after second quarter earnings quarter ends in.

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Speaker 8: June, and it's even more severe on Elon's own shares,

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Speaker 8: not that he you know, he it's academic because.

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Speaker 3: He'll just take out loans against his correct.

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Speaker 8: But also his economic ownership of the company is not

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Speaker 8: the story here. It's his voting power in the company.

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Speaker 8: And so you know, these are hypotheticals. The main point

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Speaker 8: being that the thesis as presented by SpaceX management, or

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Speaker 8: at least in our reporting and the existing shareholders, is

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Speaker 8: the reason they'll do a larger shareholders allocation to retail

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Speaker 8: investors is they believe that those retail investors believe the

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Speaker 8: story well, it's.

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Speaker 4: Partly that, and it's also again going back to the

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Speaker 4: reason that it is so fun, we're just hit holding off.

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Speaker 3: I tell you a story just crossed the Sorry sorry,

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Speaker 3: sorry sorry. I had three point thirty one written by

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Speaker 3: Bailey Lipschaltz and he's been sitting right here, So I

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Speaker 3: don't know how to happen. But that's the that's the story.

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Speaker 3: SpaceX's IPO raises seventy five billion dollars in biggest debut

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Speaker 3: of altimate.

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Speaker 4: But the thing is, thirty to forty percent of Tesla

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Speaker 4: is owned by individual investors writ large exactly selling even

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Speaker 4: in the IPO, twenty five percent to retail is a

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Speaker 4: small fraction when you think about what is going to

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Speaker 4: be unlocked in the next year. So the big question

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Speaker 4: in a lot of things investors are debating is how

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Speaker 4: does retail ramp up buying to own thirty percent of

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Speaker 4: a one point seven two trillion dollar company, Because thirty

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Speaker 4: percent of seventy five billion is a big number, but

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Speaker 4: it's still only twenty two billion dollars. That's trades like

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Speaker 4: water Nvidio from a retail perspective.

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Speaker 8: Yeah, there's one interesting dynamic which I think tomorrow is

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Speaker 8: going to be very interesting. So look at chairs of

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Speaker 8: Tesla tomorrow, okay, And the reason being is that if

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Speaker 8: you're a retail investor that did not get an allocation.

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Speaker 11: That's how you get into it.

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Speaker 8: What choice do you face if your entire net wealth

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Speaker 8: is tied up in Tesla shares that you've held because

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Speaker 8: you believe in the story long term, what do you do?

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Speaker 8: Do you sell to give yourself some money to do

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Speaker 8: that or going into this did you sell to Well?

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Speaker 4: The big thing though, is for a number of just

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Speaker 4: to clarify on some points, each platform, each ebroker is different.

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Speaker 11: So some brokers, when you put it in an.

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Speaker 4: Order, hypothetically for one hundred thousand dollars of SpaceX shares,

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Speaker 4: you either have to have that liquid or have assets

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Speaker 4: pledges collateral. So it's not necessarily like we're going to

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Speaker 4: see in real time tomorrow people selling to turn around

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Speaker 4: and buy per se.

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Speaker 2: It's just kind of wild, right, And if you believe

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Speaker 2: that these two companies are all going to end up

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Speaker 2: being one at some point, like yeah, that's all again with.

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Speaker 3: Continue tomorrow with our special covery.

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Speaker 5: This is just the beginning.

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Speaker 2: The guys will be here, all right, That is Ed Lovelow,

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Speaker 2: Bloomberg Tech co host Bally Lipshaltz, Bloomberg News IPO reporter.

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Speaker 3: Stay with us. More from Bloomberg Business Week Daily coming

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Speaker 3: up after this.

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Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week Daily Podcast. Catch

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Speaker 1: us live weekday afternoons from two to five eas during

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00:19:30,520 --> 00:19:33,959
Speaker 1: this listen on Applecarplay and Android Atto with the Bloomberg

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Speaker 1: Business app, or watch us live on YouTube.

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Speaker 5: Well, the European scent Central Bank.

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Speaker 2: Speaking of things going on, the ECB raising interest rates

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Speaker 2: for the first time in almost three years. We've got

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Speaker 2: the FOMC meeting next week with Kevin Warsh cheering for

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Speaker 2: the first time. Meantime, ECB President Christine Laguard warning inflation

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Speaker 2: triggered by the Iran War is windening beyond just energy.

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Speaker 2: Keep in mind you're definitely feeling the pain of two

440
00:19:59,280 --> 00:20:02,199
Speaker 2: wars as the as the Rush of Ukraine wars now

441
00:20:02,280 --> 00:20:04,360
Speaker 2: more than four years old in counting, and of course

442
00:20:04,400 --> 00:20:07,520
Speaker 2: you have the US war in Iran. Even so, Europe

443
00:20:07,600 --> 00:20:09,560
Speaker 2: seems to be shaking itself.

444
00:20:09,240 --> 00:20:12,920
Speaker 3: Awaits, the global order disintegrates, and China dives deeper into

445
00:20:13,000 --> 00:20:16,440
Speaker 3: Europe's traditional markets. EU leaders say the block needs bigger

446
00:20:16,960 --> 00:20:20,440
Speaker 3: and everything to protect itself. Bigger banks, bigger tech firms,

447
00:20:20,520 --> 00:20:23,800
Speaker 3: bigger defense contractors, bigger investments. At of next week's G

448
00:20:23,880 --> 00:20:26,600
Speaker 3: seven Leader sum at Bloomberg has been speaking to policymakers

449
00:20:26,600 --> 00:20:30,000
Speaker 3: and investors about Europe's path ahead, as new Bloomberg Economics

450
00:20:30,040 --> 00:20:33,600
Speaker 3: analysis underlines what major changes needed and yet, can the

451
00:20:33,640 --> 00:20:35,920
Speaker 3: block Carol really evolve?

452
00:20:36,040 --> 00:20:37,040
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's a big question.

453
00:20:37,160 --> 00:20:40,359
Speaker 2: Our Brussels radio anchor Stephen Carroll, bureau chiefs to Zan

454
00:20:40,480 --> 00:20:42,880
Speaker 2: Lynch and editor Corey Bennett have been speaking to figures

455
00:20:42,880 --> 00:20:45,840
Speaker 2: at the heart of Europe's political and financial decision making,

456
00:20:46,359 --> 00:20:48,320
Speaker 2: and Steven joins us right now. He's co host at

457
00:20:48,320 --> 00:20:51,879
Speaker 2: Bloomberg Daybreak Europe, joining us from the Bloomberg News Brussels bureau.

458
00:20:51,960 --> 00:20:54,879
Speaker 2: He's also host of the Here's Why podcast. Stephen, So

459
00:20:55,000 --> 00:20:57,560
Speaker 2: good to have you here with Tim and myself. First

460
00:20:57,600 --> 00:21:00,080
Speaker 2: of all, tell us about this mission that you and

461
00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:03,600
Speaker 2: our Bloomberg colleagues have been on and the question specifically

462
00:21:03,600 --> 00:21:04,800
Speaker 2: that you were trying to answer.

463
00:21:07,240 --> 00:21:09,640
Speaker 10: The question we're trying to answer is is whether Europe's

464
00:21:09,720 --> 00:21:13,600
Speaker 10: actually finally going to do something about its economic decline.

465
00:21:13,600 --> 00:21:15,800
Speaker 10: The warnings have been around for years when we've got

466
00:21:15,800 --> 00:21:18,760
Speaker 10: big report from Mario Dragy nearly two years old now,

467
00:21:19,000 --> 00:21:22,160
Speaker 10: saying that it was existential for Europe, that it made

468
00:21:22,520 --> 00:21:27,440
Speaker 10: major reforms, integrated its markets more, ramped up investment massively

469
00:21:27,480 --> 00:21:31,000
Speaker 10: to one point two trillion euros a year. And the

470
00:21:31,080 --> 00:21:33,040
Speaker 10: sense that we've been getting from our reporters around the

471
00:21:33,080 --> 00:21:36,400
Speaker 10: continent is there was a sense of a shift towards

472
00:21:36,440 --> 00:21:39,800
Speaker 10: progress on this finally, and that perhaps we were moving

473
00:21:39,880 --> 00:21:42,720
Speaker 10: because of the pressures that were coming on the EU

474
00:21:42,880 --> 00:21:45,520
Speaker 10: from the United States. We know obviously the Trump administration

475
00:21:45,560 --> 00:21:48,920
Speaker 10: has been particularly unfriendly to the European Union, but also

476
00:21:48,960 --> 00:21:52,280
Speaker 10: the rising competition from China, questions around access to markets,

477
00:21:52,320 --> 00:21:56,560
Speaker 10: putting pressure on manufacturers here, that perhaps things were starting

478
00:21:56,600 --> 00:21:59,320
Speaker 10: to change, and we went looking for where those changes

479
00:21:59,400 --> 00:22:02,399
Speaker 10: might come. Actually, although I know you'll think I'm crazy

480
00:22:02,440 --> 00:22:05,639
Speaker 10: if I start talking about small details in European policy changes,

481
00:22:05,680 --> 00:22:09,640
Speaker 10: there are signs out there, and they are small but significant,

482
00:22:09,800 --> 00:22:11,399
Speaker 10: that things are really changing.

483
00:22:11,440 --> 00:22:14,240
Speaker 3: Now, what are some of those signs that things are changing?

484
00:22:14,320 --> 00:22:16,800
Speaker 3: Is it more than just Europe doing more of its

485
00:22:16,800 --> 00:22:17,840
Speaker 3: own defense spending?

486
00:22:18,080 --> 00:22:18,280
Speaker 5: Is it?

487
00:22:18,320 --> 00:22:18,840
Speaker 3: What is it?

488
00:22:21,080 --> 00:22:23,280
Speaker 10: Defense spending is a key one and an initially example

489
00:22:23,320 --> 00:22:25,480
Speaker 10: for a model that could be used in other areas

490
00:22:25,600 --> 00:22:28,040
Speaker 10: in the sorts of things that Mario Dragi wanted the

491
00:22:28,040 --> 00:22:30,680
Speaker 10: opinion to spend more money on. But I will point

492
00:22:30,720 --> 00:22:33,080
Speaker 10: to merger rules. This is an area the EU has

493
00:22:33,119 --> 00:22:37,040
Speaker 10: had a huge influence globally over reviewing mergers anti trust law,

494
00:22:37,359 --> 00:22:39,639
Speaker 10: and the EU said a couple of months ago they

495
00:22:39,640 --> 00:22:42,280
Speaker 10: were going to start revising those merger rules, and we're

496
00:22:42,320 --> 00:22:45,719
Speaker 10: already seeing signs of businesses taking notice of this, deals

497
00:22:45,720 --> 00:22:48,960
Speaker 10: that in the past you thought might be flagged by regulators.

498
00:22:48,960 --> 00:22:51,439
Speaker 10: We had a big telecoms announcement in France in the

499
00:22:51,480 --> 00:22:54,199
Speaker 10: past week. We had a big banking merger announcement in

500
00:22:54,359 --> 00:22:56,520
Speaker 10: Italy in the past week as well. And these are

501
00:22:56,520 --> 00:22:59,200
Speaker 10: the sorts of deals that from a big picture point

502
00:22:59,200 --> 00:23:02,800
Speaker 10: of view, you want bigger companies, more cross border investment,

503
00:23:03,280 --> 00:23:07,200
Speaker 10: bigger banks in particular to help for financing across the continent.

504
00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:09,160
Speaker 10: These are the sorts of deals that could have been

505
00:23:09,560 --> 00:23:11,560
Speaker 10: a concern to regulators in the past, but it seems

506
00:23:11,560 --> 00:23:14,679
Speaker 10: that executives have decided it's worth going ahead because they

507
00:23:14,720 --> 00:23:18,159
Speaker 10: are sensing a changing attitude. The other issue, and it's

508
00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:20,040
Speaker 10: something that we've covered for a very long time here

509
00:23:20,040 --> 00:23:23,280
Speaker 10: at Bloomberg is questions around deeper capital markets in Europe,

510
00:23:23,359 --> 00:23:27,480
Speaker 10: trying to encourage more of that cross border investment. Six

511
00:23:27,560 --> 00:23:30,000
Speaker 10: europe six biggest economies have now said they're going to

512
00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:31,959
Speaker 10: go ahead with this plan, even if they can't get

513
00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:34,920
Speaker 10: an agreement at a twenty seven level. That's significant too,

514
00:23:34,960 --> 00:23:37,560
Speaker 10: because it's considered now to perhaps be a model as

515
00:23:37,600 --> 00:23:40,320
Speaker 10: to how things get done in this moment. Is look,

516
00:23:40,440 --> 00:23:42,840
Speaker 10: you get a big group of countries together, they go ahead.

517
00:23:42,880 --> 00:23:45,119
Speaker 10: The others can join if they want, but crucially you

518
00:23:45,119 --> 00:23:48,719
Speaker 10: will start to provide those deeper markets that will hopefully

519
00:23:48,760 --> 00:23:52,080
Speaker 10: stimulate investment and help to turn around the economic fortunes

520
00:23:52,119 --> 00:23:52,520
Speaker 10: as well.

521
00:23:52,600 --> 00:23:54,879
Speaker 2: You know, Stephen to be fair, right and at play

522
00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:57,320
Speaker 2: as the EU figures its way forward and its position

523
00:23:57,840 --> 00:24:01,879
Speaker 2: in the world. President Trump up ended so many longstanding

524
00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:05,680
Speaker 2: global relationships. Some say that was long over do Others say,

525
00:24:05,720 --> 00:24:09,560
Speaker 2: big mistake. These have been longtime allies and it impacts

526
00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:12,840
Speaker 2: not just geopolitics, but it impacts business when it comes

527
00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:14,639
Speaker 2: to the EU and the US relationship.

528
00:24:14,680 --> 00:24:16,520
Speaker 5: You had a perfect voice to talk with.

529
00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:18,760
Speaker 2: Tell us about your conversation and check in with the

530
00:24:18,760 --> 00:24:21,400
Speaker 2: former EU Commissioner for Competition.

531
00:24:23,080 --> 00:24:25,640
Speaker 10: Margaret Vestar is one of the U policymakers who's really

532
00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:28,080
Speaker 10: been at the forefront of some of the most controversial

533
00:24:28,240 --> 00:24:31,000
Speaker 10: ends of EU policy, competition now being one. She was

534
00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:33,400
Speaker 10: also part of developing the new Digital rule Book, which

535
00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:36,199
Speaker 10: we know the Trump administration doesn't like either. She was

536
00:24:36,359 --> 00:24:38,240
Speaker 10: in one of the top positions at the EU Commission

537
00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:41,040
Speaker 10: until twenty twenty four, and I asked her about this

538
00:24:41,119 --> 00:24:44,359
Speaker 10: question as to whether actually, maybe Donald Trump had done

539
00:24:44,359 --> 00:24:48,479
Speaker 10: the EU a favor by ofbending this relationship and spurring

540
00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:50,199
Speaker 10: them into action. Let's take a listen to what she

541
00:24:50,280 --> 00:24:50,760
Speaker 10: had to say.

542
00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:54,520
Speaker 12: I wouldn't express it that way because you know, I'm

543
00:24:54,560 --> 00:24:57,639
Speaker 12: really sad about some of the very very negative effects

544
00:24:57,680 --> 00:25:02,760
Speaker 12: of the Trump presidency, take the of USAID, the risk

545
00:25:02,800 --> 00:25:07,359
Speaker 12: of offsetting a new AIDS epidemic, So I think one

546
00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:10,840
Speaker 12: cannot see it like that. That being said, I think

547
00:25:10,840 --> 00:25:14,320
Speaker 12: it was about time for Europe to realize we need

548
00:25:14,359 --> 00:25:18,280
Speaker 12: to do better ourselves. The European social contract is at

549
00:25:18,359 --> 00:25:21,720
Speaker 12: stake here because many people feel that that social contract

550
00:25:21,760 --> 00:25:22,720
Speaker 12: is not being upheld.

551
00:25:25,840 --> 00:25:29,600
Speaker 10: That's Margaret Star, formerly of the European Commission, really putting

552
00:25:29,680 --> 00:25:33,800
Speaker 10: in perspective the influence that the degradation of the transatlantic

553
00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:37,440
Speaker 10: relationship has had and how that has spurred it appears

554
00:25:37,520 --> 00:25:40,760
Speaker 10: European leaders into more action on this front, realizing that

555
00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:43,600
Speaker 10: they have to rely on themselves more because they can't

556
00:25:43,640 --> 00:25:47,080
Speaker 10: rely on one of their most important traditional partners. And

557
00:25:47,119 --> 00:25:50,280
Speaker 10: she actually pointed to Donald Trump's comments around wanting to

558
00:25:50,280 --> 00:25:52,919
Speaker 10: annex Greenland earlier this year is being a moment that

559
00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:55,760
Speaker 10: really seemed to spur a change in attitude in a

560
00:25:55,840 --> 00:25:58,679
Speaker 10: sense that actually, now Europe needs to tackle some of

561
00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:02,040
Speaker 10: these long running under lying problems to be able to

562
00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:05,639
Speaker 10: provide better protection for the social model, the wealthy influence

563
00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:07,520
Speaker 10: that it's built up over time.

564
00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:08,840
Speaker 11: Now, I don't want to get.

565
00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:12,480
Speaker 10: You too excited about this, because things happen slowly in Europe.

566
00:26:12,520 --> 00:26:15,040
Speaker 10: At a European Union level. We're in the middle of

567
00:26:15,280 --> 00:26:18,200
Speaker 10: the discussions on the next European budget, for example. That

568
00:26:18,240 --> 00:26:20,840
Speaker 10: could be another area where there could be big changes.

569
00:26:21,119 --> 00:26:23,440
Speaker 10: The ambitions that we've had an update on today don't

570
00:26:23,480 --> 00:26:26,920
Speaker 10: look hugely different, so that might not be the level

571
00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:30,440
Speaker 10: of excitement that we want. But the conversations are happening

572
00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:33,159
Speaker 10: and there is a sense that we're moving towards something

573
00:26:33,160 --> 00:26:36,800
Speaker 10: that will result in more European integration. And more as

574
00:26:36,840 --> 00:26:40,200
Speaker 10: a result European's influence on the world. Bloomberg Economics was

575
00:26:40,240 --> 00:26:43,000
Speaker 10: looking at the potential consequences of this as well. They

576
00:26:43,040 --> 00:26:45,680
Speaker 10: say the path is going to be divergent even further.

577
00:26:45,800 --> 00:26:48,920
Speaker 10: The European Union will fall further behind the US economically

578
00:26:49,280 --> 00:26:51,800
Speaker 10: if there isn't big changes made, but if there are,

579
00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:55,200
Speaker 10: that will arrest first of all the decline and actually

580
00:26:55,280 --> 00:26:58,159
Speaker 10: could see the two economies converge as well. None of that,

581
00:26:58,240 --> 00:27:00,119
Speaker 10: of course, mentioning AI, which could change everything.

582
00:27:00,320 --> 00:27:02,680
Speaker 3: Well, let's talk a little bit about technology and also

583
00:27:02,720 --> 00:27:06,080
Speaker 3: geopolitics here beyond the United States. You did mention China

584
00:27:06,119 --> 00:27:08,840
Speaker 3: as another factor that is driving this. If we think

585
00:27:08,840 --> 00:27:11,560
Speaker 3: about it from the perspective of evs, for example, you're

586
00:27:11,560 --> 00:27:15,040
Speaker 3: not going to find Chinese evs here in the United States.

587
00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:18,920
Speaker 3: Not the case for mainland Europe, where you could see,

588
00:27:19,119 --> 00:27:22,720
Speaker 3: i don't know, Norway, Italy, Spain, in France you can

589
00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:26,280
Speaker 3: see Chinese evs on the roads there. How much of

590
00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:28,760
Speaker 3: this is about China and what is it about China

591
00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:31,120
Speaker 3: specifically that has the block concerned.

592
00:27:33,320 --> 00:27:35,359
Speaker 10: So there's a couple of issues here. One is that

593
00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:38,679
Speaker 10: China is moving in on Europe's traditional industries, of strength,

594
00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:40,840
Speaker 10: and the motor industry is a perfect example of that.

595
00:27:41,119 --> 00:27:43,879
Speaker 10: It's true ice BYD cars around Brussels, you know, they

596
00:27:43,920 --> 00:27:47,520
Speaker 10: are more present here in many parts of the continent

597
00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:50,399
Speaker 10: as well. And it's a question of the EU has

598
00:27:50,480 --> 00:27:53,280
Speaker 10: being to, you know, make this decision about whether or

599
00:27:53,359 --> 00:27:56,480
Speaker 10: not there are industries that it's going to protect and support.

600
00:27:56,920 --> 00:28:00,480
Speaker 10: Carmaking we know is extremely politically important in Germany, for example,

601
00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:03,200
Speaker 10: so will thereby will that be an obstacle to try

602
00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:07,880
Speaker 10: and support those industries rather than necessary or to protect

603
00:28:07,960 --> 00:28:11,400
Speaker 10: you know, from Chinese imports in that area. The other

604
00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:13,919
Speaker 10: question is also access to the Chinese market, because it's

605
00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:16,880
Speaker 10: an important export market for a lot of big European

606
00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:19,920
Speaker 10: companies as well, and they fear more barriers being put

607
00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:23,399
Speaker 10: up which could cut off that very lucrative market for

608
00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:25,679
Speaker 10: them at a time when obviously now we're going to

609
00:28:25,720 --> 00:28:28,119
Speaker 10: have trade tariffs with the US as well, So some

610
00:28:28,160 --> 00:28:31,399
Speaker 10: of those big export markets could actually be closed off

611
00:28:31,600 --> 00:28:34,320
Speaker 10: to European exporters as well. And that's another way that

612
00:28:34,359 --> 00:28:37,720
Speaker 10: we could see industries hurt by this complete shifting in

613
00:28:37,760 --> 00:28:39,080
Speaker 10: the global order that we've seen.

614
00:28:39,480 --> 00:28:41,840
Speaker 2: Speaking about the global order and the shifting, I keep

615
00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:43,760
Speaker 2: thinking about the European Union. We've had a lot of

616
00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:47,000
Speaker 2: stories I'm sure Steven you know on the Bloomberg about

617
00:28:47,080 --> 00:28:50,360
Speaker 2: the UK. I'm looking at one that was done on

618
00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:52,760
Speaker 2: June ninth, So just this week have the UK's options

619
00:28:52,760 --> 00:28:56,360
Speaker 2: for rebuilding ties with Europe stack up this possibility of

620
00:28:56,400 --> 00:28:58,560
Speaker 2: the UK coming back. But I do think about the

621
00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:01,800
Speaker 2: composition of the European Union. Some have questioned some of

622
00:29:01,800 --> 00:29:04,680
Speaker 2: the countries and the entities that are are part of

623
00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:07,680
Speaker 2: that institution, how is that going.

624
00:29:07,480 --> 00:29:08,280
Speaker 5: To move forward?

625
00:29:08,320 --> 00:29:11,240
Speaker 2: How important is that in terms of who's in who's out,

626
00:29:12,080 --> 00:29:14,440
Speaker 2: matters in terms of its place in the global world.

627
00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:18,880
Speaker 10: Well, that's a really important question too, because of course

628
00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:21,280
Speaker 10: we have a whole range of countries who've been lining

629
00:29:21,360 --> 00:29:23,400
Speaker 10: up for years to try and join the European Union,

630
00:29:23,440 --> 00:29:26,360
Speaker 10: across the Western Balkans, for example. But also there's been

631
00:29:26,440 --> 00:29:29,600
Speaker 10: such a renewed focus on Ukraine's potential membership of the

632
00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:32,680
Speaker 10: European Union too, And a lot of these questions are

633
00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:34,680
Speaker 10: tied up with the fact that the way the EU

634
00:29:34,760 --> 00:29:37,960
Speaker 10: works right now is already so cumbersome, and part of

635
00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:40,120
Speaker 10: the fear of admitting new countries is you actually make

636
00:29:40,160 --> 00:29:44,000
Speaker 10: the situation even more complex, and as you add divergent

637
00:29:44,040 --> 00:29:46,880
Speaker 10: political views from different domains as well, is that there

638
00:29:46,920 --> 00:29:48,840
Speaker 10: will be a need to give up, for example, the

639
00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:52,080
Speaker 10: veto that exists in some areas of the European Union.

640
00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:55,280
Speaker 10: Nobody's willing to have those sort of conversations because it's

641
00:29:55,360 --> 00:29:58,400
Speaker 10: such a laborious and time consuming process when there are

642
00:29:58,440 --> 00:30:01,560
Speaker 10: other big crises that need to be addressed now. I

643
00:30:01,560 --> 00:30:04,280
Speaker 10: do think it's important to talk about what happened with Brexit, though,

644
00:30:04,320 --> 00:30:08,000
Speaker 10: because obviously the UK leaving was a blow for the EU.

645
00:30:08,360 --> 00:30:11,640
Speaker 10: They took a voice out of conversations on things like

646
00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:14,280
Speaker 10: capital markets, for example, where Britain would have had a

647
00:30:14,280 --> 00:30:16,640
Speaker 10: lot of influence, and the countries who would like to

648
00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:19,320
Speaker 10: see greater integration or for in some cases might want

649
00:30:19,320 --> 00:30:22,320
Speaker 10: to protect part of their own financial industries as well,

650
00:30:22,560 --> 00:30:25,600
Speaker 10: have lost perhaps an ally around the table there too,

651
00:30:25,640 --> 00:30:28,880
Speaker 10: so that those alliances have shifted over the past ten years.

652
00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:32,080
Speaker 10: New bridges had to be built between countries too. I

653
00:30:32,120 --> 00:30:34,240
Speaker 10: don't think the UK is going to be rejoining the

654
00:30:34,240 --> 00:30:36,640
Speaker 10: EU anytime soon, but closer ties does seem to be

655
00:30:36,680 --> 00:30:37,240
Speaker 10: on the cards.

656
00:30:37,360 --> 00:30:38,840
Speaker 5: Hey, great to check in with you. I know it's

657
00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:40,320
Speaker 5: later there, but so appreciate it.

658
00:30:40,360 --> 00:30:43,240
Speaker 2: Of course, Stephen Carroll, co host to Bloomberg Daybreak Europe,

659
00:30:43,360 --> 00:30:45,720
Speaker 2: joining us from the Bloomberg News Brussels Bureau, who's also

660
00:30:45,760 --> 00:30:48,000
Speaker 2: host of the Here's Why podcast.

661
00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:52,200
Speaker 3: Stay with us more from Bloomberg Business Week Daily coming

662
00:30:52,280 --> 00:30:53,240
Speaker 3: up after this.

663
00:30:57,840 --> 00:31:01,680
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week Daily Podcast. Catch

664
00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:04,440
Speaker 1: us live weekday afternoons from two to five e's during

665
00:31:04,640 --> 00:31:08,560
Speaker 1: Listen on Applecarplay and Android Auto with the Blowberk Business app,

666
00:31:08,760 --> 00:31:11,320
Speaker 1: or watch us live on YouTube.

667
00:31:11,880 --> 00:31:15,880
Speaker 3: I'm glued to the terminal all things SpaceX. The latest,

668
00:31:16,040 --> 00:31:18,440
Speaker 3: the company raising seventy five billion dollars in the IPO.

669
00:31:19,120 --> 00:31:22,240
Speaker 3: I'm surprised to anyone who's been paying attention. Five hundred

670
00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:24,280
Speaker 3: and fifty five points six million shares at one hundred

671
00:31:24,320 --> 00:31:26,520
Speaker 3: and thirty five dollars each. It's now official. It's a

672
00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:29,560
Speaker 3: corner of statement on its website. Here's some context, Carol,

673
00:31:29,640 --> 00:31:32,240
Speaker 3: SpaceX's IPO is more than double the size of Satdi

674
00:31:32,360 --> 00:31:35,640
Speaker 3: Ramco's twenty nine point four billion dolllar listing back in

675
00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:38,040
Speaker 3: twenty nineteen. I'm old enough to remember when Ali Baba

676
00:31:38,920 --> 00:31:40,080
Speaker 3: was a big IPO.

677
00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:42,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I remember when we were talking down

678
00:31:42,280 --> 00:31:46,840
Speaker 2: and counting down to Sadi Ramko's listing, like these were massive,

679
00:31:46,880 --> 00:31:51,720
Speaker 2: massive issues in something that the market really took notice of.

680
00:31:52,320 --> 00:31:53,640
Speaker 2: I've got to say it's safe to say that we're

681
00:31:53,640 --> 00:31:56,520
Speaker 2: asking everyone about this moment in time, including our next

682
00:31:56,560 --> 00:31:58,920
Speaker 2: guest with us as doctor Sylvia Kwan, she CEO of

683
00:31:58,960 --> 00:32:01,920
Speaker 2: the investment advisory for Elvest. They've got about one point

684
00:32:01,920 --> 00:32:04,800
Speaker 2: one billion in assets under management, she joins us here

685
00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:05,840
Speaker 2: in our Bloomberg.

686
00:32:05,440 --> 00:32:08,200
Speaker 5: Interactive Broker studio. Welcome, Welcome, Nice to have you here.

687
00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:08,880
Speaker 13: Great to be here.

688
00:32:09,080 --> 00:32:12,360
Speaker 2: How do you think about someone who has watched the markets,

689
00:32:12,560 --> 00:32:15,000
Speaker 2: I think about this moment in time, the SpaceX IPO.

690
00:32:15,480 --> 00:32:19,400
Speaker 13: It is a historical moment. It's terribly exciting, regardless of

691
00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:22,080
Speaker 13: what you think the valuation of SpaceX is. It's just

692
00:32:22,120 --> 00:32:25,760
Speaker 13: an very exciting that this is actually happening now. At

693
00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:30,840
Speaker 13: elas you know, we're focused on long term investment management

694
00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:34,720
Speaker 13: and portfolios, and we're very focused on diversification. We don't

695
00:32:34,760 --> 00:32:38,040
Speaker 13: pick individual stocks, and so this is the IPO is

696
00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:41,120
Speaker 13: not something that we are specifically placing in client portfolios.

697
00:32:41,360 --> 00:32:44,800
Speaker 3: You said it's exciting, You're not specifically placing it in

698
00:32:44,840 --> 00:32:47,560
Speaker 3: client portfolios at this moment. Yet, if you are an

699
00:32:47,560 --> 00:32:49,760
Speaker 3: investor in the entire stock market, then you're going to

700
00:32:49,800 --> 00:32:52,240
Speaker 3: own SpaceX no matter what. After what could be maybe

701
00:32:52,280 --> 00:32:54,680
Speaker 3: even five or six days, depending on how long it

702
00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:59,000
Speaker 3: takes to be added to some of the indexes. A

703
00:32:59,000 --> 00:32:59,680
Speaker 3: good thing.

704
00:33:00,680 --> 00:33:03,000
Speaker 13: I don't think it's either a good thing necessarily or

705
00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:05,960
Speaker 13: a bad thing, because you know it's going to be

706
00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:09,560
Speaker 13: such a small part of the overall portfolio, so it's

707
00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:11,960
Speaker 13: not like it's going to dominate somebody's portfolio. If they

708
00:33:12,040 --> 00:33:15,880
Speaker 13: already own some of these ETFs and NX funds that

709
00:33:16,200 --> 00:33:18,440
Speaker 13: space is going to be added to, they are going

710
00:33:18,480 --> 00:33:20,600
Speaker 13: to own it, but it's at a very very small fraction.

711
00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:22,480
Speaker 3: Are you hearing from clientele right now? We spoke to

712
00:33:22,480 --> 00:33:26,320
Speaker 3: well Front CEO David Fortunado yesterday who said that last

713
00:33:26,320 --> 00:33:28,680
Speaker 3: week the company put out a blog post about SpaceX's

714
00:33:28,720 --> 00:33:32,760
Speaker 3: IPO and that within seconds they had customers getting in

715
00:33:32,800 --> 00:33:35,600
Speaker 3: touch on both sides being like, I want in on

716
00:33:35,680 --> 00:33:38,240
Speaker 3: this or I want nothing to do with us. I

717
00:33:38,280 --> 00:33:40,360
Speaker 3: don't want this anywhere near my portfolio. And he said,

718
00:33:40,360 --> 00:33:42,880
Speaker 3: we do direct indexing, so we can control even if

719
00:33:42,920 --> 00:33:45,320
Speaker 3: somebody buys an index, we can control what they actually buy.

720
00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:46,480
Speaker 3: Are you hearing from clients.

721
00:33:46,560 --> 00:33:48,520
Speaker 13: We are, We are hearing the same thing.

722
00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:49,040
Speaker 3: Really.

723
00:33:49,160 --> 00:33:51,280
Speaker 13: There are some that are very excited about the prospects

724
00:33:51,320 --> 00:33:54,040
Speaker 13: and they want in and we said, great, you can

725
00:33:54,080 --> 00:33:56,520
Speaker 13: go ahead and do that and try to get some shares.

726
00:33:56,760 --> 00:33:59,080
Speaker 13: And there are some that say, I want to avoid

727
00:33:59,120 --> 00:34:01,800
Speaker 13: this at all, and we also have direct indency and

728
00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:05,280
Speaker 13: allow them to take that out of the universe of possibilities.

729
00:34:05,360 --> 00:34:06,760
Speaker 5: I think it's just interesting.

730
00:34:06,800 --> 00:34:09,080
Speaker 2: If it was anybody other than Elon, would we be

731
00:34:09,120 --> 00:34:10,000
Speaker 2: having these conversations.

732
00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:10,560
Speaker 11: Probably not.

733
00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:12,960
Speaker 13: Yeah, Yeah, it's very bifurcating.

734
00:34:13,280 --> 00:34:16,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's really kind of fascinating to watch this, and

735
00:34:16,400 --> 00:34:18,440
Speaker 2: it's something that listen, we're gonna have the first day

736
00:34:18,480 --> 00:34:21,640
Speaker 2: of trading, we've had this lead up, but it's also

737
00:34:21,680 --> 00:34:24,920
Speaker 2: then watching what we get in terms of trading in

738
00:34:24,960 --> 00:34:28,000
Speaker 2: the following months right after the io, and what we

739
00:34:28,040 --> 00:34:31,440
Speaker 2: hear from the company about the actual fundamentals that matter.

740
00:34:31,840 --> 00:34:34,719
Speaker 13: That's right, and so I the way I think about it,

741
00:34:34,960 --> 00:34:37,319
Speaker 13: you know, because this is such an exciting event, it's

742
00:34:37,360 --> 00:34:39,480
Speaker 13: a huge story. There are a lot of people who

743
00:34:39,560 --> 00:34:42,240
Speaker 13: are excited about the story and not really thinking about

744
00:34:42,239 --> 00:34:44,640
Speaker 13: the fundamentals. But even if you are thinking about the

745
00:34:44,640 --> 00:34:48,360
Speaker 13: fundamentals and you believe, hey, you know, the growth prospects

746
00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:52,600
Speaker 13: of SpaceX are just incredible. You don't have to get

747
00:34:52,600 --> 00:34:55,040
Speaker 13: in on day one or even day two. You know,

748
00:34:55,360 --> 00:34:57,359
Speaker 13: this is a long term investment, and you think, hey,

749
00:34:57,360 --> 00:34:59,560
Speaker 13: this is actually going to be amazing for the next

750
00:34:59,600 --> 00:35:01,719
Speaker 13: ten years. You've got a lot of time.

751
00:35:02,480 --> 00:35:05,160
Speaker 3: I mean, think about again, this is at this point

752
00:35:05,239 --> 00:35:08,080
Speaker 3: ancient history. But if we go back to the company

753
00:35:08,120 --> 00:35:12,200
Speaker 3: now known as Meta Platforms, but it was Facebook that

754
00:35:12,320 --> 00:35:15,240
Speaker 3: was essentially a disastrous IPO back in twenty twelve.

755
00:35:15,360 --> 00:35:17,799
Speaker 5: I remember that day actually really well too.

756
00:35:17,960 --> 00:35:20,759
Speaker 3: Really shocked, right, and everybody's like, how did this get

757
00:35:20,840 --> 00:35:21,560
Speaker 3: so messed up?

758
00:35:21,760 --> 00:35:21,960
Speaker 7: Right?

759
00:35:23,200 --> 00:35:23,359
Speaker 3: Yeah?

760
00:35:23,520 --> 00:35:23,759
Speaker 7: Was that?

761
00:35:23,760 --> 00:35:27,000
Speaker 3: That was twenty twelve. Yeah. So but if you but

762
00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:28,880
Speaker 3: if you bought, and then even if you weather the

763
00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:32,520
Speaker 3: early tumult, you're pretty happy camper, right now, that's right,

764
00:35:32,560 --> 00:35:35,879
Speaker 3: because that was trading what you know, basically thirty five

765
00:35:35,920 --> 00:35:37,719
Speaker 3: dollars a share now at five hundred and sixty eight

766
00:35:37,760 --> 00:35:39,600
Speaker 3: dollars a share. So, Syllie, one thing.

767
00:35:39,520 --> 00:35:41,920
Speaker 5: I wonder about, like, you know, you guys are dealing with.

768
00:35:42,800 --> 00:35:45,200
Speaker 2: Wealth transfer, a lot more money coming into the hands

769
00:35:45,239 --> 00:35:49,720
Speaker 2: of women. People thinking about longer term people are living longer.

770
00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:52,959
Speaker 2: How they need to make sure that they're that they've

771
00:35:52,960 --> 00:35:56,080
Speaker 2: got money to live on essentially, but what of the

772
00:35:56,080 --> 00:35:58,879
Speaker 2: the long or what are the narratives that are out

773
00:35:58,880 --> 00:36:03,759
Speaker 2: there right now, whether it's near shoring, unshoring, whether it's

774
00:36:03,840 --> 00:36:06,000
Speaker 2: all of a sudden we're talking more about oil and

775
00:36:06,080 --> 00:36:08,520
Speaker 2: kind of raw commodities, if you will. In terms of

776
00:36:08,520 --> 00:36:11,960
Speaker 2: an investment play, the AI play, we see the money,

777
00:36:11,960 --> 00:36:14,200
Speaker 2: we see the continuing demands, certainly when it comes to

778
00:36:14,239 --> 00:36:17,480
Speaker 2: the semiconductor space. But there are some who are questioning

779
00:36:18,680 --> 00:36:20,200
Speaker 2: what the fallout is.

780
00:36:20,200 --> 00:36:21,160
Speaker 5: Is there an overbuild?

781
00:36:21,200 --> 00:36:21,759
Speaker 10: Will we need it?

782
00:36:22,120 --> 00:36:24,480
Speaker 2: You know, there's lots of questions out there. What are

783
00:36:24,520 --> 00:36:29,120
Speaker 2: the positioning I'm also curious about alternatives. Is there still

784
00:36:29,440 --> 00:36:32,600
Speaker 2: the wish to be in private credit or private equity?

785
00:36:33,000 --> 00:36:34,280
Speaker 2: Where is it that they want.

786
00:36:34,080 --> 00:36:39,400
Speaker 13: To be So at Elvest, we still believe that alternatives

787
00:36:39,520 --> 00:36:42,959
Speaker 13: has a significant part to play in a client's portfolio.

788
00:36:43,400 --> 00:36:46,520
Speaker 13: But not all alternatives are created equal, and so we're

789
00:36:46,520 --> 00:36:50,560
Speaker 13: really looking for those private investments that have that low

790
00:36:50,600 --> 00:36:54,040
Speaker 13: correlation to public markets because that's really what is going

791
00:36:54,080 --> 00:36:57,960
Speaker 13: to get the diversification for your portfolio. So where very

792
00:36:58,440 --> 00:37:01,360
Speaker 13: as you might know, we're also one hundred percent dedicated

793
00:37:01,400 --> 00:37:05,240
Speaker 13: to impact investing and not only generating returns but also impact.

794
00:37:05,600 --> 00:37:09,040
Speaker 13: So oil and gas is not typically something that we

795
00:37:09,080 --> 00:37:12,359
Speaker 13: find in client portfolios. Will see more other infrastructure things

796
00:37:12,400 --> 00:37:15,640
Speaker 13: like renewable energy and other real assets.

797
00:37:16,680 --> 00:37:21,480
Speaker 3: Are there pre Again going back to the how we're

798
00:37:21,520 --> 00:37:24,600
Speaker 3: thinking about the companies that are getting all the attention

799
00:37:24,760 --> 00:37:29,160
Speaker 3: right now, care lost about alternative investments? Do you consider

800
00:37:30,200 --> 00:37:34,400
Speaker 3: pre IPO shares of private companies right now, like an

801
00:37:34,440 --> 00:37:38,759
Speaker 3: anthropic or like an open AI as part of or

802
00:37:38,880 --> 00:37:43,440
Speaker 3: secondaries as part of an alternative.

803
00:37:43,000 --> 00:37:47,080
Speaker 13: Asset portoitowhere they absolutely can be. We do have venture

804
00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:49,839
Speaker 13: as part of our portfolios, and to the extent there

805
00:37:49,880 --> 00:37:54,359
Speaker 13: are AI companies and other companies, you know with technology innovations,

806
00:37:54,440 --> 00:37:55,759
Speaker 13: that is definitely part of.

807
00:37:55,760 --> 00:37:59,520
Speaker 3: A Is there tension with ESG or or impact investing

808
00:37:59,680 --> 00:38:02,239
Speaker 3: with the companies just because of the environmental impact and

809
00:38:02,239 --> 00:38:03,799
Speaker 3: how we're thinking about power.

810
00:38:04,680 --> 00:38:09,040
Speaker 13: There can be And really when you talk about values aligned,

811
00:38:09,120 --> 00:38:12,239
Speaker 13: it's really a personal question, right and so somebody who's

812
00:38:12,280 --> 00:38:15,560
Speaker 13: really focused on the environment will have a different portfolio

813
00:38:15,600 --> 00:38:20,120
Speaker 13: than somebody who's really focused on you know, economic parity

814
00:38:20,239 --> 00:38:23,239
Speaker 13: or something like that. So it's really a personal kind

815
00:38:23,239 --> 00:38:25,080
Speaker 13: of thing, and that's where at all of us, we're

816
00:38:25,120 --> 00:38:28,080
Speaker 13: really trying to craft something that is specific to that individual.

817
00:38:28,280 --> 00:38:29,879
Speaker 2: You know, there used to be a moment in time.

818
00:38:29,960 --> 00:38:32,960
Speaker 2: And it's interesting with this bacex Ipo. I think about

819
00:38:33,080 --> 00:38:37,000
Speaker 2: you know, Elon Muskin is play on solar right and renewables, Like,

820
00:38:37,040 --> 00:38:39,400
Speaker 2: it's just kind of interesting the different parts of our

821
00:38:39,440 --> 00:38:41,960
Speaker 2: world that he touches. Having said that, I haven't looked

822
00:38:42,000 --> 00:38:44,720
Speaker 2: at the return Let me just pull up the Investo

823
00:38:44,800 --> 00:38:47,719
Speaker 2: Solar ETF, like what we have seen in terms of

824
00:38:47,760 --> 00:38:51,239
Speaker 2: the trade, Like are the returns there? Because I have

825
00:38:51,400 --> 00:38:53,319
Speaker 2: noticed too, and I think I feel, like you know, Tim,

826
00:38:53,320 --> 00:38:56,080
Speaker 2: We've had guests on where people have said, listen, people

827
00:38:56,080 --> 00:38:56,719
Speaker 2: are still.

828
00:38:56,480 --> 00:38:59,080
Speaker 5: Investing in renewals. The movie is still on. We're just

829
00:38:59,120 --> 00:39:00,920
Speaker 5: not talking about it. Is that true?

830
00:39:01,160 --> 00:39:03,200
Speaker 13: I think that is true. And when you think about

831
00:39:03,360 --> 00:39:07,120
Speaker 13: the energy that is required for all of this AI,

832
00:39:08,480 --> 00:39:11,279
Speaker 13: it needs all forms of energy in order to meet

833
00:39:11,320 --> 00:39:13,279
Speaker 13: this kind of demand. So I just don't think I.

834
00:39:13,440 --> 00:39:17,040
Speaker 2: Think to sell the ETF is up twenty seven percent

835
00:39:17,239 --> 00:39:20,120
Speaker 2: to date. That's a surprise too, Okay, anyway, forgive me.

836
00:39:20,160 --> 00:39:21,480
Speaker 2: I interrupted, Oh, no worries.

837
00:39:22,200 --> 00:39:24,759
Speaker 13: You know, I think soul or another kind of green

838
00:39:24,880 --> 00:39:29,759
Speaker 13: energy has kind of gotten removed from some of the vocabulary.

839
00:39:29,800 --> 00:39:32,120
Speaker 13: It's not in vogue anymore, but it is still something

840
00:39:32,160 --> 00:39:34,560
Speaker 13: that our clients care about and that we care about,

841
00:39:34,800 --> 00:39:37,880
Speaker 13: and that I think that demand will continue to in

842
00:39:38,200 --> 00:39:40,080
Speaker 13: the coming years. They'll continue to grow.

843
00:39:41,760 --> 00:39:43,239
Speaker 5: Are you surprised by no?

844
00:39:43,360 --> 00:39:47,880
Speaker 3: I mean, one thing I am surprised about is the

845
00:39:47,920 --> 00:39:52,120
Speaker 3: way that if we think about impact investing, and I

846
00:39:52,200 --> 00:39:55,120
Speaker 3: use the terms ESG to be fair, but if we

847
00:39:55,120 --> 00:39:57,440
Speaker 3: were talking to you five years ago, like that's probably

848
00:39:57,440 --> 00:40:00,439
Speaker 3: how we would have led the interview. But people talking

849
00:40:00,480 --> 00:40:02,959
Speaker 3: about their value is when it comes to investing right now.

850
00:40:03,280 --> 00:40:05,080
Speaker 3: And our prediction at the time was like, it's all

851
00:40:05,080 --> 00:40:08,200
Speaker 3: well and good in an upmarket and one where you know,

852
00:40:08,239 --> 00:40:11,880
Speaker 3: you can pick and choose. But I wonder right now

853
00:40:12,160 --> 00:40:14,000
Speaker 3: how much of it has to do with just a

854
00:40:14,040 --> 00:40:17,320
Speaker 3: handful of companies that are driving so much performance versus

855
00:40:17,400 --> 00:40:20,600
Speaker 3: just a way a change in tone in the way

856
00:40:20,680 --> 00:40:25,120
Speaker 3: that the environment is politically right now, what is it?

857
00:40:25,160 --> 00:40:27,160
Speaker 13: I think it's the latter you do. I think it's

858
00:40:27,239 --> 00:40:33,279
Speaker 13: it's popularity has waned. It's not popular to talk about it.

859
00:40:33,920 --> 00:40:36,279
Speaker 13: We have noticed some of the fund managers that we

860
00:40:36,320 --> 00:40:39,000
Speaker 13: work with that, are impact managers having to change their

861
00:40:39,080 --> 00:40:39,719
Speaker 13: language a bit.

862
00:40:39,840 --> 00:40:43,440
Speaker 3: We've noticed that too. Yeah, they've told us. They've told

863
00:40:43,520 --> 00:40:45,760
Speaker 3: us that they're changing their language, but they're not necessarily

864
00:40:45,800 --> 00:40:47,640
Speaker 3: changing what they're doing. They're just changing the way they

865
00:40:47,680 --> 00:40:49,360
Speaker 3: communicate about it exactly.

866
00:40:49,600 --> 00:40:50,440
Speaker 11: That's exactly right.

867
00:40:50,520 --> 00:40:52,920
Speaker 13: The strategy is the same, the impact is the same,

868
00:40:53,440 --> 00:40:56,279
Speaker 13: but they need to change their language, especially when it

869
00:40:56,280 --> 00:40:57,359
Speaker 13: comes to institutions.

870
00:40:57,600 --> 00:40:59,759
Speaker 3: But you're still seeing the demand come from your clientele

871
00:41:00,080 --> 00:41:02,399
Speaker 3: for that type of messaging or at least that type

872
00:41:02,440 --> 00:41:03,440
Speaker 3: of value based investment.

873
00:41:03,520 --> 00:41:07,959
Speaker 13: Absolutely, we're seeing that amongst not only women, but younger generations.

874
00:41:08,000 --> 00:41:10,840
Speaker 13: And in fact, we have been talking to some of

875
00:41:10,880 --> 00:41:15,320
Speaker 13: the beneficiaries of AI, whether it's employees and things like

876
00:41:15,400 --> 00:41:18,439
Speaker 13: that that are coming. And it's interesting because we are

877
00:41:18,480 --> 00:41:23,480
Speaker 13: hearing that they're coming into this great wealth that they

878
00:41:23,520 --> 00:41:27,319
Speaker 13: never expected and they're really thinking about, like intentionally, how

879
00:41:27,360 --> 00:41:29,960
Speaker 13: do I want to invest this wealth and use this wealth?

880
00:41:31,080 --> 00:41:33,720
Speaker 13: And so we've been talking about sort of like, oh,

881
00:41:33,920 --> 00:41:37,480
Speaker 13: now that I've had this wealth, it's not just about

882
00:41:37,560 --> 00:41:42,200
Speaker 13: generating more wealth, it's about intentionally doing something good with

883
00:41:42,239 --> 00:41:42,520
Speaker 13: that one.

884
00:41:42,600 --> 00:41:45,120
Speaker 3: Do you remind me of Danielle Amide's comments at Bloomberg

885
00:41:45,160 --> 00:41:47,600
Speaker 3: Technology last week talking to our own shream Gafari about

886
00:41:47,600 --> 00:41:50,560
Speaker 3: how she's committed to giving away eighty percent of her

887
00:41:50,600 --> 00:41:52,560
Speaker 3: net worth to charity.

888
00:41:52,840 --> 00:41:53,280
Speaker 11: Yeah.

889
00:41:53,640 --> 00:41:55,680
Speaker 3: She's one of the co founders of Anthropic.

890
00:41:55,320 --> 00:41:56,000
Speaker 5: Yeah, exactly.

891
00:41:56,400 --> 00:41:59,879
Speaker 2: It's certainly guiding how she does things in a big way.

892
00:42:00,680 --> 00:42:03,440
Speaker 5: Come back soon. Thank you, we really thanks thanks for

893
00:42:03,480 --> 00:42:03,879
Speaker 5: having me.

894
00:42:04,040 --> 00:42:07,680
Speaker 2: Doctor Sylvia Quand, CEO of the Investment advisory for Melavest,

895
00:42:07,920 --> 00:42:09,040
Speaker 2: joining us one point.

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00:42:08,880 --> 00:42:11,200
Speaker 5: One billion in AUM. Joining us right here in our

897
00:42:11,200 --> 00:42:13,040
Speaker 5: Bloomberg Interactive Brokers studio.

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00:42:13,880 --> 00:42:19,360
Speaker 1: This is the Bloomberg Business Weekdaily podcast, available on Apple, Spotify,

899
00:42:19,520 --> 00:42:23,560
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900
00:42:23,600 --> 00:42:27,760
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901
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902
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903
00:42:35,000 --> 00:42:37,200
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