1
00:00:00,960 --> 00:00:02,120
Speaker 1: On the Bechdel Cast.

2
00:00:02,240 --> 00:00:04,000
Speaker 2: The questions asked if movies have.

3
00:00:04,080 --> 00:00:07,960
Speaker 3: Women and them, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands,

4
00:00:08,039 --> 00:00:12,400
Speaker 3: or do they have individualism? The patriarchy, Zephy and Beast

5
00:00:12,800 --> 00:00:15,880
Speaker 3: start changing it with the Bechdel Cast.

6
00:00:22,360 --> 00:00:26,480
Speaker 4: This is how all podcast should start. Now, that's a

7
00:00:26,480 --> 00:00:29,560
Speaker 4: good way to sink audio is to do uh to

8
00:00:29,640 --> 00:00:33,280
Speaker 4: do the West Side wos. Yeah. Yeah, I feel like

9
00:00:33,320 --> 00:00:35,559
Speaker 4: that was a solid intro. We just did what the

10
00:00:35,600 --> 00:00:38,080
Speaker 4: movie did, right. I feel good about that.

11
00:00:38,680 --> 00:00:41,960
Speaker 1: I feel great about it. Welcome to the Bechdel Cast.

12
00:00:42,280 --> 00:00:43,800
Speaker 1: My name is Caitlin Derante.

13
00:00:44,040 --> 00:00:46,600
Speaker 4: My name is Jabie Loftus. This is our podcast where

14
00:00:46,600 --> 00:00:51,720
Speaker 4: we talk about your favorite movies using an intersectional feminist

15
00:00:52,120 --> 00:00:55,960
Speaker 4: lens and the Bechdel Test as a jumping off point

16
00:00:56,040 --> 00:00:59,440
Speaker 4: for discussion. But Caitlin, what is the Bechdel Test? Please

17
00:00:59,480 --> 00:01:03,120
Speaker 4: tell me for the five probably literally the five hundredth time.

18
00:01:03,360 --> 00:01:07,640
Speaker 1: Probably yes, yes. The Bechdel Test is a media metric

19
00:01:08,120 --> 00:01:11,800
Speaker 1: created by a dear friend of ours, Alison Bechdel. We

20
00:01:11,920 --> 00:01:15,920
Speaker 1: go way back with her last year to last year.

21
00:01:16,280 --> 00:01:19,200
Speaker 1: It appeared in her comic Dykes to Watch out For

22
00:01:19,360 --> 00:01:23,000
Speaker 1: in the eighties. Originally also known as the Bechdel Wallace test.

23
00:01:23,760 --> 00:01:26,080
Speaker 1: It has many versions of it. The one that we

24
00:01:26,200 --> 00:01:29,639
Speaker 1: use is this, do two characters of a marginalized gender

25
00:01:30,240 --> 00:01:32,440
Speaker 1: have names? Do they speak to each other? And is

26
00:01:32,480 --> 00:01:36,360
Speaker 1: there conversation about something other than a man? Also, we

27
00:01:36,480 --> 00:01:39,400
Speaker 1: like it when it's like narratively meaningful dialogue and not

28
00:01:39,520 --> 00:01:42,160
Speaker 1: just like throw away nonsense.

29
00:01:42,280 --> 00:01:45,760
Speaker 4: It can't be about Tony as the point, we cannot

30
00:01:45,760 --> 00:01:50,680
Speaker 4: be talking or Bernardo about Tony or Bernardo and we're

31
00:01:50,720 --> 00:01:53,440
Speaker 4: gonna encounter some challenges this week. Were to encounter some

32
00:01:53,480 --> 00:01:56,120
Speaker 4: challenges this week, but we have. I mean I was

33
00:01:56,160 --> 00:01:59,480
Speaker 4: talking with someone about the podcast yesterday as I've as

34
00:01:59,480 --> 00:02:01,800
Speaker 4: I've been known to do. Oh sure, a friend of

35
00:02:01,800 --> 00:02:04,720
Speaker 4: his show, Michael Hobbs, and he was saying he was like, oh,

36
00:02:05,280 --> 00:02:07,880
Speaker 4: it must be like hard after almost ten years to

37
00:02:08,240 --> 00:02:10,960
Speaker 4: keep finding, you know, new movies. And I was like,

38
00:02:11,040 --> 00:02:14,800
Speaker 4: you would be surprised at like how many movies have

39
00:02:14,880 --> 00:02:18,800
Speaker 4: been made and just like I don't know, there's no

40
00:02:18,880 --> 00:02:22,240
Speaker 4: telling why, Like there's just some movies we haven't gotten

41
00:02:22,320 --> 00:02:25,239
Speaker 4: to or like we there was a re release or

42
00:02:25,520 --> 00:02:27,880
Speaker 4: a remake and it just didn't happen. I don't know

43
00:02:28,520 --> 00:02:30,919
Speaker 4: all I had to say today is a movie that

44
00:02:31,520 --> 00:02:35,239
Speaker 4: is probably one of the most famous movies that exists,

45
00:02:36,200 --> 00:02:39,359
Speaker 4: and here we are covering it ten years later. Yeah,

46
00:02:39,400 --> 00:02:41,560
Speaker 4: all I had to say podcast life is long, baby.

47
00:02:41,720 --> 00:02:45,480
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, we're talking about West Side Story nineteen

48
00:02:45,520 --> 00:02:51,799
Speaker 1: sixty one, the original film adaptation. Here to talk about

49
00:02:51,840 --> 00:02:56,680
Speaker 1: this movie with us is a cherished guest. She's the

50
00:02:56,720 --> 00:03:00,560
Speaker 1: producer of some of your favorite podcasts such as Last Cult, Trista's,

51
00:03:00,600 --> 00:03:05,000
Speaker 1: The Daily Zeitgeist and Mess. And she's the host of

52
00:03:05,040 --> 00:03:08,960
Speaker 1: the new podcast Welcome to El Barrio. And you remember

53
00:03:09,000 --> 00:03:12,119
Speaker 1: her from our episode on Magic Mike XXL. Never forget.

54
00:03:12,400 --> 00:03:13,560
Speaker 1: It's Becca Ramos.

55
00:03:13,760 --> 00:03:18,800
Speaker 2: Hello, God back a coveted stop on my press tour,

56
00:03:19,600 --> 00:03:22,120
Speaker 2: the Bechtel Cast. I'm so excited to be back and

57
00:03:22,200 --> 00:03:22,760
Speaker 2: to be here.

58
00:03:23,240 --> 00:03:24,000
Speaker 4: Welcome back.

59
00:03:24,440 --> 00:03:25,560
Speaker 1: It's great to have you here.

60
00:03:26,440 --> 00:03:30,080
Speaker 4: Before we before we get into the rich text that

61
00:03:30,200 --> 00:03:33,480
Speaker 4: is West Side Story, I want to know more about

62
00:03:33,480 --> 00:03:35,280
Speaker 4: the podcast all us about Welcome to El Barrio.

63
00:03:35,600 --> 00:03:38,440
Speaker 2: Yes, so, Welcome to a Barrio is a podcast about

64
00:03:38,440 --> 00:03:42,720
Speaker 2: all things Puerto Rico, where I interview notable port riquas,

65
00:03:42,840 --> 00:03:47,560
Speaker 2: whether they are artists, taste makers, community leaders, musicians, et cetera.

66
00:03:48,560 --> 00:03:51,520
Speaker 2: About you know what they are doing to redefine what

67
00:03:51,600 --> 00:03:54,360
Speaker 2: it means to be Puerto Rican, Puerto Rican, not Puerto Rico.

68
00:03:54,800 --> 00:03:56,520
Speaker 2: And you know with the host by the end of

69
00:03:56,520 --> 00:03:58,840
Speaker 2: every episode that all the listeners feel a little bit

70
00:03:58,800 --> 00:04:01,720
Speaker 2: close to boring matter where they are in the world.

71
00:04:01,840 --> 00:04:05,119
Speaker 2: So I'm so excited to be doing it. It's been

72
00:04:05,840 --> 00:04:08,640
Speaker 2: like five years in the making, from like inception of

73
00:04:08,760 --> 00:04:14,000
Speaker 2: idea to like it live, So it's crazy. It's like

74
00:04:14,040 --> 00:04:15,880
Speaker 2: I've been working on this for so long and it's like,

75
00:04:16,240 --> 00:04:17,360
Speaker 2: oh my got a doubt.

76
00:04:17,440 --> 00:04:21,240
Speaker 4: Here, it is here, it is. Congratulations, that's so exciting.

77
00:04:21,800 --> 00:04:25,720
Speaker 2: Thank you. We got our first few episodes already recorded.

78
00:04:26,200 --> 00:04:28,680
Speaker 2: I just finished doing the first episode, which is a

79
00:04:28,760 --> 00:04:31,960
Speaker 2: narrative style episode, kind of giving everybody a taste of

80
00:04:32,480 --> 00:04:34,640
Speaker 2: what the show will be and why am I doing

81
00:04:34,720 --> 00:04:36,840
Speaker 2: it and why now. I think a lot of people

82
00:04:37,480 --> 00:04:40,160
Speaker 2: right now are assuming maybe this podcast is coming out

83
00:04:40,160 --> 00:04:43,039
Speaker 2: because of Bad Bunnies Rise, but that's not true. We

84
00:04:43,120 --> 00:04:45,839
Speaker 2: are more than Bad Bunny, as much as we love him,

85
00:04:46,080 --> 00:04:48,000
Speaker 2: and so it's a little bit of an introduction to me.

86
00:04:48,279 --> 00:04:50,120
Speaker 2: And then the rest is going to be talk show,

87
00:04:50,200 --> 00:04:54,120
Speaker 2: chat show, and we have already three episodes recorded. I

88
00:04:54,160 --> 00:04:55,880
Speaker 2: went to Puerto Rico to record them, which was like

89
00:04:55,920 --> 00:04:58,960
Speaker 2: really fun and very like exciting.

90
00:04:59,120 --> 00:05:03,520
Speaker 4: But yeah, oh, congratulations, and also so silly that anyone

91
00:05:03,600 --> 00:05:05,799
Speaker 4: would be like, oh because bad bunny and you're.

92
00:05:05,640 --> 00:05:08,880
Speaker 2: Like and you're like, yeah, he's one guy, but you know,

93
00:05:09,040 --> 00:05:12,360
Speaker 2: the island has existed for centuries, so great god.

94
00:05:12,480 --> 00:05:14,160
Speaker 4: But but but just one guy?

95
00:05:14,279 --> 00:05:15,160
Speaker 2: But just one guy?

96
00:05:15,680 --> 00:05:18,000
Speaker 4: People love to say, is it because of one guy?

97
00:05:18,440 --> 00:05:19,520
Speaker 4: The answer is never.

98
00:05:19,440 --> 00:05:21,640
Speaker 2: Yet They're like, he's the most famous guy though, and

99
00:05:21,680 --> 00:05:23,800
Speaker 2: I'm like no, no, no, I mean.

100
00:05:23,760 --> 00:05:28,760
Speaker 4: Yes, but no. Well, congratulations, we can't wait to listen.

101
00:05:29,200 --> 00:05:29,599
Speaker 2: Thank you.

102
00:05:30,600 --> 00:05:34,720
Speaker 1: And we wanted to talk about a movie today that

103
00:05:34,720 --> 00:05:39,880
Speaker 1: that is in conversation with the topic of your podcast,

104
00:05:40,520 --> 00:05:45,320
Speaker 1: hence West Side Story. So Becca, tell us about your

105
00:05:45,560 --> 00:05:48,000
Speaker 1: relationship with this film.

106
00:05:48,600 --> 00:05:54,040
Speaker 2: Well, you know what's funny you guys, hopefully you can

107
00:05:54,080 --> 00:05:57,560
Speaker 2: hear me over my two loud hot dogs. But uh,

108
00:05:57,640 --> 00:05:59,560
Speaker 2: what I find interesting is that I thought you guys

109
00:05:59,560 --> 00:06:01,520
Speaker 2: had covered when I had pitched a bunch of Puerto

110
00:06:01,560 --> 00:06:04,440
Speaker 2: Rican movies. I was like, yeah, but they've already done

111
00:06:04,480 --> 00:06:07,200
Speaker 2: West Side Story, like obviously shocking.

112
00:06:07,240 --> 00:06:09,320
Speaker 4: I don't, I honestly don't. I feel like it's a

113
00:06:09,360 --> 00:06:11,680
Speaker 4: movie we've almost covered several times and it just is

114
00:06:11,760 --> 00:06:14,440
Speaker 4: like never made someone's final pick. I don't know why.

115
00:06:14,600 --> 00:06:18,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, but to say my history, this is a movie

116
00:06:18,240 --> 00:06:20,080
Speaker 2: that I feel like, if you are Puerto Rican, if

117
00:06:20,080 --> 00:06:23,679
Speaker 2: you grew up, you know, with very Puerto Rican parents,

118
00:06:23,920 --> 00:06:26,000
Speaker 2: They're like, yeah, and West Side Story it's, you know,

119
00:06:26,279 --> 00:06:30,600
Speaker 2: a historical text of our culture. And I'm like, okay, yeah.

120
00:06:30,720 --> 00:06:33,880
Speaker 2: And I remember my dad because he's a big movie buff.

121
00:06:34,080 --> 00:06:36,600
Speaker 2: It's probably where I got my love for movies. He

122
00:06:36,839 --> 00:06:39,800
Speaker 2: also loves old Hollywood shit, and so he made me

123
00:06:39,839 --> 00:06:43,040
Speaker 2: sit down and watch this among like Bush Cassidy and

124
00:06:43,080 --> 00:06:45,440
Speaker 2: The Sun Dance Kid and like things like that nature

125
00:06:46,040 --> 00:06:48,200
Speaker 2: And I remember watching it and being a little bored

126
00:06:48,760 --> 00:06:52,200
Speaker 2: the first time I watched it as a kid, but

127
00:06:52,279 --> 00:06:54,919
Speaker 2: then since then, I went and saw it with my

128
00:06:55,000 --> 00:06:58,719
Speaker 2: family the twenty twenty one you know redo, and I

129
00:06:58,760 --> 00:07:02,640
Speaker 2: remember having lots of complicate feelings about that version, but

130
00:07:02,960 --> 00:07:06,279
Speaker 2: upon this rewatch, I have grown a lot of love

131
00:07:06,560 --> 00:07:11,400
Speaker 2: for both versions of the movie and it's place in

132
00:07:11,560 --> 00:07:14,960
Speaker 2: Puerto Rican history at large. And I actually, you know

133
00:07:15,040 --> 00:07:17,920
Speaker 2: what's funny, I asked my parents what their history with

134
00:07:17,960 --> 00:07:20,600
Speaker 2: the movie was, because all I knew was like, this

135
00:07:20,680 --> 00:07:23,400
Speaker 2: is a strong movie my Household, but I couldn't remember

136
00:07:23,400 --> 00:07:25,720
Speaker 2: for the life of me why it mattered to my parents.

137
00:07:26,120 --> 00:07:28,320
Speaker 2: And my mom actually sent a voice note and I

138
00:07:28,360 --> 00:07:30,440
Speaker 2: honestly forgot to listen to it before this. But my

139
00:07:30,520 --> 00:07:33,440
Speaker 2: dad sent an email which was very.

140
00:07:34,040 --> 00:07:36,760
Speaker 4: Long, strong multimedia family.

141
00:07:37,040 --> 00:07:40,160
Speaker 2: You know, my dad is a man of literature. He

142
00:07:40,280 --> 00:07:43,480
Speaker 2: loves to write, and let me see if I can

143
00:07:43,880 --> 00:07:45,560
Speaker 2: do a little summary of it for you, because I

144
00:07:45,560 --> 00:07:47,320
Speaker 2: thought it was like very sweet, because he's a man

145
00:07:47,360 --> 00:07:52,280
Speaker 2: of few words in person, but in email he loves

146
00:07:52,320 --> 00:07:55,160
Speaker 2: to write a lot yapper. He's a yapper.

147
00:07:55,400 --> 00:07:58,400
Speaker 4: There's many dads that I've like, really come alive in

148
00:07:58,400 --> 00:07:58,960
Speaker 4: an email.

149
00:07:59,320 --> 00:08:01,600
Speaker 2: They're just like I can never express to you how

150
00:08:01,680 --> 00:08:04,280
Speaker 2: much I love you in person, but I will write

151
00:08:04,320 --> 00:08:05,280
Speaker 2: you a lovely letter.

152
00:08:05,800 --> 00:08:08,920
Speaker 4: Yeah, just kind of nice, which.

153
00:08:08,720 --> 00:08:12,000
Speaker 2: Is beautiful, but as I'm like skimming it, it is long.

154
00:08:12,080 --> 00:08:15,400
Speaker 2: But essentially, my dad is somebody who he never really

155
00:08:15,480 --> 00:08:18,040
Speaker 2: identified with his Puerto ricaness. He's not, which is why

156
00:08:18,080 --> 00:08:20,160
Speaker 2: I actually was shocked he loved the movie so much

157
00:08:20,200 --> 00:08:23,360
Speaker 2: because he's not a proud Puerto Rican like my mom is.

158
00:08:23,920 --> 00:08:26,280
Speaker 2: But I guess like when he was young, this is

159
00:08:26,320 --> 00:08:28,360
Speaker 2: like one of the few movies. His cousin took him

160
00:08:28,400 --> 00:08:30,080
Speaker 2: to who had moved in with him for the summer,

161
00:08:30,560 --> 00:08:32,240
Speaker 2: and it was like one of the first pieces of

162
00:08:32,280 --> 00:08:35,920
Speaker 2: media that he saw Puerto Ricans portrayed in and it

163
00:08:36,000 --> 00:08:40,720
Speaker 2: was such a successful movie that he really fell in

164
00:08:40,720 --> 00:08:42,439
Speaker 2: love with it and was like one of the first

165
00:08:42,480 --> 00:08:44,800
Speaker 2: and only times he felt proud to be Puerto Rican

166
00:08:45,040 --> 00:08:50,520
Speaker 2: was watching this movie. So he also grew up in

167
00:08:50,640 --> 00:08:54,400
Speaker 2: La so big movie town obviously, and I think being

168
00:08:54,440 --> 00:08:56,600
Speaker 2: in La when you don't have a Portrican community, there's

169
00:08:56,679 --> 00:08:59,800
Speaker 2: not a large community. He didn't identify with the Chicano

170
00:09:00,000 --> 00:09:02,200
Speaker 2: Comunity too much either, so I think this was just

171
00:09:02,240 --> 00:09:03,760
Speaker 2: like one of his first moments where he was like,

172
00:09:04,160 --> 00:09:06,600
Speaker 2: oh my god, there's me. Representation matters.

173
00:09:07,000 --> 00:09:10,840
Speaker 4: Wow, that's so lovely. Yeah, it's so interesting listening to

174
00:09:11,360 --> 00:09:14,079
Speaker 4: especially people who were like alive when it came out

175
00:09:14,200 --> 00:09:17,720
Speaker 4: or even like pre the twenty twenty one movie coming out,

176
00:09:17,800 --> 00:09:20,719
Speaker 4: because there is like such a specific relate, like it's

177
00:09:20,720 --> 00:09:23,880
Speaker 4: a very individual relationship that people formed this movie, and

178
00:09:23,920 --> 00:09:28,520
Speaker 4: it seems like specifically Puerto Rican Americans where where there's like,

179
00:09:28,840 --> 00:09:32,200
Speaker 4: I mean, there's like a Lin Manuel Miranda connection all

180
00:09:32,240 --> 00:09:34,280
Speaker 4: I mean, all over this musical he like, oh yeah

181
00:09:34,320 --> 00:09:37,520
Speaker 4: translated lyrics in two thousand and nine, to have Spanish

182
00:09:37,600 --> 00:09:39,320
Speaker 4: lyrics on stage all this stuff.

183
00:09:39,160 --> 00:09:41,480
Speaker 2: But you can hear some of the music is also

184
00:09:41,720 --> 00:09:44,360
Speaker 2: like I know, I don't think he taunted as like

185
00:09:44,480 --> 00:09:47,000
Speaker 2: the composer, but you can hear like I'm like, oh,

186
00:09:47,080 --> 00:09:48,960
Speaker 2: I hear in the Heights in some of these songs

187
00:09:48,960 --> 00:09:49,719
Speaker 2: in the twenty nine one.

188
00:09:49,760 --> 00:09:53,520
Speaker 4: Version, ot yeah, and like the visual influence is like

189
00:09:53,640 --> 00:09:57,640
Speaker 4: very clear. Twenty twenty one was a very interesting year

190
00:09:57,760 --> 00:10:02,160
Speaker 4: for movie musicals that starred Puerto Rican characters. It was like,

191
00:10:02,480 --> 00:10:04,960
Speaker 4: because we still haven't covered In the Heights. I think

192
00:10:05,000 --> 00:10:07,079
Speaker 4: because we were sort of trying to give some time

193
00:10:07,400 --> 00:10:10,680
Speaker 4: because it was such a fraught conversation going on around colorism,

194
00:10:10,720 --> 00:10:14,040
Speaker 4: rightfully so at the time that we still were still

195
00:10:14,040 --> 00:10:16,640
Speaker 4: waiting to cover it. But I mean in the same

196
00:10:16,679 --> 00:10:19,880
Speaker 4: year that Steven Spielberg directs West Side Story, which was

197
00:10:20,160 --> 00:10:23,680
Speaker 4: the conversation all its own and you know, beautiful movie.

198
00:10:23,679 --> 00:10:26,160
Speaker 4: But why you know all this stuff? And wasn't it

199
00:10:26,320 --> 00:10:28,480
Speaker 4: was John cho who directed In the Heights.

200
00:10:28,600 --> 00:10:30,959
Speaker 2: I believe, right, I have so many thought's why I

201
00:10:30,960 --> 00:10:32,360
Speaker 2: put on my list. I was like that one I

202
00:10:32,400 --> 00:10:37,800
Speaker 2: have a lot of thoughts on John two yeah, John Chu, Slade, wicked, obvi, Slade,

203
00:10:37,880 --> 00:10:39,360
Speaker 2: crazy rich Asians.

204
00:10:39,000 --> 00:10:43,600
Speaker 4: But Slade step up two yeah, three yeah, and.

205
00:10:43,840 --> 00:10:46,479
Speaker 2: Justin Bieber's documentary question.

206
00:10:46,520 --> 00:10:47,840
Speaker 4: A generational artist.

207
00:10:47,960 --> 00:10:50,440
Speaker 2: But but this was not I think. I think he

208
00:10:50,600 --> 00:10:53,240
Speaker 2: was set up for failure in a way, and I

209
00:10:53,320 --> 00:10:56,360
Speaker 2: was actually shocked. And this is obviously a discussion to

210
00:10:56,400 --> 00:10:58,839
Speaker 2: come back on for In the Heights later, But I

211
00:10:58,920 --> 00:11:01,640
Speaker 2: was shocked Lynn didn't directed himself, because later I think

212
00:11:01,679 --> 00:11:05,320
Speaker 2: that year he directed Tictik Boom as his directorial debut.

213
00:11:05,760 --> 00:11:07,840
Speaker 2: So I was like, yes, you were already putting your

214
00:11:07,840 --> 00:11:11,160
Speaker 2: hat in the director ring. Why didn't you just direct it?

215
00:11:11,559 --> 00:11:14,920
Speaker 4: I was also confused. I wonder, I don't know. I

216
00:11:14,960 --> 00:11:17,400
Speaker 4: was also sort of confused at that. But he gave

217
00:11:17,440 --> 00:11:20,920
Speaker 4: an interview around I think it was for a documentary

218
00:11:21,080 --> 00:11:23,760
Speaker 4: release about Rita Moreno, around the time that the re

219
00:11:23,760 --> 00:11:26,240
Speaker 4: release came out in twenty twenty one, talking about the

220
00:11:26,240 --> 00:11:29,560
Speaker 4: first time he saw Westside Story, and it sounds very

221
00:11:29,600 --> 00:11:32,920
Speaker 4: similar to your dad's anecdote where he was, you know,

222
00:11:33,200 --> 00:11:35,160
Speaker 4: saying like he saw for the first time on VHS

223
00:11:35,200 --> 00:11:39,960
Speaker 4: when he was twelve and was like shocked that the theme

224
00:11:40,240 --> 00:11:43,560
Speaker 4: of being Puerto Rican was explored at all, and yeah

225
00:11:43,600 --> 00:11:47,880
Speaker 4: it was like, you know, like flawed but exciting, and yes, yeah,

226
00:11:48,280 --> 00:11:50,559
Speaker 4: it's it's interesting here. And then you hear the total

227
00:11:50,600 --> 00:11:53,840
Speaker 4: opposite of Puerto Rican viewers who are like, I hated

228
00:11:53,880 --> 00:11:57,679
Speaker 4: it from moment one because brown face, and you're like, yes, it's.

229
00:11:57,520 --> 00:12:01,679
Speaker 2: Like such a caricature of the Puerto Rican identity for sure.

230
00:12:02,320 --> 00:12:05,560
Speaker 2: And I think I always felt complicated about that because

231
00:12:05,679 --> 00:12:09,200
Speaker 2: I watched it and I was like, huh. But now

232
00:12:09,240 --> 00:12:12,040
Speaker 2: that I am like doing the show and I've done

233
00:12:12,040 --> 00:12:13,959
Speaker 2: a lot of research for this episode and I now

234
00:12:13,960 --> 00:12:15,920
Speaker 2: watched both of them back to back, I was like, Okay,

235
00:12:16,000 --> 00:12:19,520
Speaker 2: I see both sides of this conversation. I see why

236
00:12:19,559 --> 00:12:23,199
Speaker 2: the generation before us loved and hated it, because there

237
00:12:23,200 --> 00:12:25,720
Speaker 2: are people of my dad's generation that were like, this

238
00:12:25,960 --> 00:12:29,000
Speaker 2: is awful. And when the Broadway musical came out, like

239
00:12:29,080 --> 00:12:33,040
Speaker 2: on Broadway, it was obviously very poorly received by Puerto Ricans,

240
00:12:33,080 --> 00:12:36,120
Speaker 2: but I do think because it was it was truly

241
00:12:36,160 --> 00:12:38,679
Speaker 2: white people in brown face, like it was vaudeville. You know,

242
00:12:38,760 --> 00:12:41,360
Speaker 2: there were no Puerto Rican actors doing any of the

243
00:12:41,440 --> 00:12:43,520
Speaker 2: roles when it was on Broadway. But then in the

244
00:12:43,559 --> 00:12:47,400
Speaker 2: movie production. They had at least like a couple latinos.

245
00:12:48,040 --> 00:12:51,320
Speaker 2: They had to rita moreno, but like you know, it

246
00:12:51,400 --> 00:12:55,400
Speaker 2: was just like a slight sup from what was on Broadway.

247
00:12:56,040 --> 00:12:58,800
Speaker 4: Yeah, I was. I mean, researching what the original Broadway

248
00:12:58,800 --> 00:13:02,360
Speaker 4: production is like is pretty horrific. Yeah, and as well

249
00:13:02,360 --> 00:13:04,160
Speaker 4: as I mean, we'll talk about this later in the episode,

250
00:13:04,160 --> 00:13:08,200
Speaker 4: but specifically how the song America was like revised and

251
00:13:08,240 --> 00:13:13,000
Speaker 4: revised and it's kind of still being revised is frustrating

252
00:13:13,040 --> 00:13:16,839
Speaker 4: and fascinating to learn about. Yeah, have you ever seen

253
00:13:16,880 --> 00:13:18,959
Speaker 4: it on stage? I've never. I think I haven't seen

254
00:13:19,000 --> 00:13:20,200
Speaker 4: a high school production of it.

255
00:13:20,679 --> 00:13:23,880
Speaker 2: They I'm from Texas, so they did not care to

256
00:13:23,880 --> 00:13:26,320
Speaker 2: do this in any of our high school productions. I mean,

257
00:13:26,320 --> 00:13:28,000
Speaker 2: I wasn't a theater kid, but I had a lot

258
00:13:28,000 --> 00:13:29,960
Speaker 2: of theater friends, so I would go see all of

259
00:13:30,000 --> 00:13:34,319
Speaker 2: their shows. But I remember our town being a big one.

260
00:13:35,080 --> 00:13:36,840
Speaker 2: I don't remember the other few that they did, but

261
00:13:36,920 --> 00:13:39,840
Speaker 2: it was never West Side, and even at Baylor, where

262
00:13:40,280 --> 00:13:43,120
Speaker 2: it is a big theater arts program at Baylor, we

263
00:13:43,200 --> 00:13:45,959
Speaker 2: never did it at Baylor either won or why shocker,

264
00:13:47,160 --> 00:13:49,760
Speaker 2: So I had never seen it and they only revived

265
00:13:49,800 --> 00:13:52,559
Speaker 2: it recently when the twenty twenty one came out, but

266
00:13:52,840 --> 00:13:54,760
Speaker 2: I didn't get a chance to see it here in

267
00:13:54,760 --> 00:13:57,040
Speaker 2: New York. So no, I haven't seen it, but I would.

268
00:13:56,880 --> 00:14:00,000
Speaker 4: Love to, Kitlyn. What is your history with West Side Story?

269
00:14:00,160 --> 00:14:02,720
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh. I saw it for the first time

270
00:14:02,800 --> 00:14:07,040
Speaker 1: during either during the great Caitlin movie binge of two

271
00:14:07,080 --> 00:14:11,080
Speaker 1: thousand and five, or I also did a smaller movie

272
00:14:11,120 --> 00:14:14,079
Speaker 1: binge in like two thousand and three when I was

273
00:14:14,080 --> 00:14:15,920
Speaker 1: still in high school and I was like deciding that

274
00:14:15,960 --> 00:14:18,920
Speaker 1: I wanted to be a film major and I have

275
00:14:19,040 --> 00:14:22,160
Speaker 1: to watch some movies to prepare for that. I think

276
00:14:22,160 --> 00:14:26,400
Speaker 1: it might have been then. Whatever. Either way, it's like

277
00:14:26,760 --> 00:14:30,400
Speaker 1: been twenty or more years since I've seen it, and

278
00:14:30,480 --> 00:14:34,640
Speaker 1: I didn't quite realize this until I rewatched to prep

279
00:14:34,680 --> 00:14:38,320
Speaker 1: for this episode. But almost every song in this movie

280
00:14:38,480 --> 00:14:41,720
Speaker 1: is so entrenched in the zeitgeist.

281
00:14:42,040 --> 00:14:42,200
Speaker 3: Yea.

282
00:14:42,320 --> 00:14:44,880
Speaker 1: They were all very, very familiar to me, and I

283
00:14:44,920 --> 00:14:47,440
Speaker 1: was like, oh, I didn't even realize that that song

284
00:14:47,560 --> 00:14:50,760
Speaker 1: was from this I feel pretty musical. I didn't remember

285
00:14:50,760 --> 00:14:52,000
Speaker 1: that at all. That was the one that I was like,

286
00:14:52,040 --> 00:14:53,640
Speaker 1: wait a minute, that's from What Side Story?

287
00:14:53,800 --> 00:14:57,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, So it's weird. It's like seeing the Nutcracker

288
00:14:57,080 --> 00:14:59,200
Speaker 4: and you're like, wait, I know all of these Yeah,

289
00:14:59,280 --> 00:15:00,000
Speaker 4: I didn't realize.

290
00:15:00,480 --> 00:15:04,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, right, So that was you know, that was kind

291
00:15:04,320 --> 00:15:08,240
Speaker 1: of a pleasant surprise. But listeners of the podcast might

292
00:15:08,560 --> 00:15:12,040
Speaker 1: know this, But I'm not the biggest musical head, so

293
00:15:12,240 --> 00:15:14,160
Speaker 1: I tend not to seek them out, or if I

294
00:15:14,200 --> 00:15:17,120
Speaker 1: do watch them. It's kind of that one time. Although

295
00:15:17,160 --> 00:15:22,240
Speaker 1: I did see the twenty twenty one Spielberg adaptation when

296
00:15:22,240 --> 00:15:26,800
Speaker 1: it came out, and I was like, why is the

297
00:15:26,880 --> 00:15:30,360
Speaker 1: lighting in this movie so weird? Why am I watching

298
00:15:30,400 --> 00:15:32,040
Speaker 1: all these people dance all the time?

299
00:15:32,200 --> 00:15:37,880
Speaker 4: Why am I looking at angel El's court the al.

300
00:15:37,440 --> 00:15:39,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, sex criminal ansel El Gordon.

301
00:15:39,600 --> 00:15:42,640
Speaker 4: I I do appreciate that at very least he has

302
00:15:42,720 --> 00:15:45,520
Speaker 4: sort of been removed from the culture, it seems like,

303
00:15:46,280 --> 00:15:48,280
Speaker 4: to the point where I no longer know his name. So,

304
00:15:48,560 --> 00:15:50,480
Speaker 4: you know, good job everyone, good job.

305
00:15:50,840 --> 00:15:53,040
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, he wasn't good enough for people to want

306
00:15:53,080 --> 00:15:54,800
Speaker 2: to keep him around, so they were like, Okay, you're

307
00:15:54,800 --> 00:15:57,320
Speaker 2: getting canceled, we can just let you go.

308
00:15:57,880 --> 00:15:58,080
Speaker 4: Yeah.

309
00:15:58,400 --> 00:16:02,400
Speaker 1: Also totally forgot that the guy from Challengers Mike Face.

310
00:16:02,640 --> 00:16:03,520
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, Mike Feist.

311
00:16:03,680 --> 00:16:04,440
Speaker 1: Yeah Feist?

312
00:16:04,720 --> 00:16:07,040
Speaker 2: Is is it East? I'm not sure.

313
00:16:07,080 --> 00:16:08,280
Speaker 1: I have no idea how to.

314
00:16:08,200 --> 00:16:09,600
Speaker 2: Know either way, he stole the show.

315
00:16:10,040 --> 00:16:14,360
Speaker 1: He is he is so great casting and I have

316
00:16:14,440 --> 00:16:18,920
Speaker 1: some notes about the twenty twenty one version, but most

317
00:16:18,920 --> 00:16:22,520
Speaker 1: of this episode will be focused on the nineteen sixty

318
00:16:22,600 --> 00:16:24,680
Speaker 1: one adaptation, just because.

319
00:16:24,440 --> 00:16:26,560
Speaker 4: There's so much, Like I feel we should almost do

320
00:16:26,560 --> 00:16:28,520
Speaker 4: an entirely separate episode about Toy Toy one, but we

321
00:16:28,760 --> 00:16:30,760
Speaker 4: should talk about like some of the adaptation changes and

322
00:16:30,800 --> 00:16:31,640
Speaker 4: stuff for sure.

323
00:16:32,240 --> 00:16:36,080
Speaker 1: But yeah, that's pretty much my history. It has catchy songs,

324
00:16:36,160 --> 00:16:39,160
Speaker 1: and those are the main things that I remembered about it.

325
00:16:39,640 --> 00:16:42,600
Speaker 1: But as we've been saying, it's a rich text and

326
00:16:42,760 --> 00:16:44,920
Speaker 1: there's a lot to discuss, So I'm excited to get

327
00:16:44,960 --> 00:16:49,040
Speaker 1: into it. Jamie, what is your relationship with West Side Story?

328
00:16:50,440 --> 00:16:52,960
Speaker 4: Nothing and a lot, I feel like, definitely. I remember

329
00:16:52,960 --> 00:16:56,000
Speaker 4: seeing this movie for the first time in middle school

330
00:16:56,240 --> 00:17:01,400
Speaker 4: with a very impactful music teacher. I had missus Vallani

331
00:17:01,600 --> 00:17:05,080
Speaker 4: shout out to her. She showed it to us during class,

332
00:17:05,119 --> 00:17:06,879
Speaker 4: and I think, similar to you, Becca, I was like,

333
00:17:06,920 --> 00:17:10,240
Speaker 4: this is long. This is very long.

334
00:17:10,280 --> 00:17:13,159
Speaker 2: It's three hours and there's an intermission built into the movie.

335
00:17:13,600 --> 00:17:15,719
Speaker 4: Yeah, and for that reason, I'm sure it took us

336
00:17:15,760 --> 00:17:18,360
Speaker 4: like four school days to watch. And I was sort

337
00:17:18,400 --> 00:17:22,400
Speaker 4: of like, sure, right now. I definitely saw a community

338
00:17:22,440 --> 00:17:24,199
Speaker 4: production of it as a kid that I don't recall,

339
00:17:24,640 --> 00:17:26,080
Speaker 4: and then I didn't see it for a long time.

340
00:17:26,160 --> 00:17:29,360
Speaker 4: I actually I will out myself as I have done

341
00:17:29,560 --> 00:17:32,040
Speaker 4: a lot of research about the spielbrain adaptation. I still

342
00:17:32,040 --> 00:17:35,400
Speaker 4: haven't seen it. That's okay, But I am a member

343
00:17:35,480 --> 00:17:39,440
Speaker 4: of Rachel z Eggler Nation. Proud member of Rachel z

344
00:17:39,440 --> 00:17:44,200
Speaker 4: Eglar Nation. Yes, but yeah, I haven't seen the new one.

345
00:17:44,240 --> 00:17:48,320
Speaker 4: But I did get a chance last year to see

346
00:17:48,520 --> 00:17:50,320
Speaker 4: I'm a big read a Marino fan. I got to

347
00:17:50,359 --> 00:17:52,320
Speaker 4: interview her five years ago and it was like one

348
00:17:52,320 --> 00:17:57,200
Speaker 4: of the highlights of life. She's so amazing. And last year,

349
00:17:57,560 --> 00:18:00,119
Speaker 4: my friend works at the Academy Museum in LA and

350
00:18:00,440 --> 00:18:03,480
Speaker 4: got us tickets to see West Side Story with Rita

351
00:18:03,560 --> 00:18:09,159
Speaker 4: Moreno introducing it, and it was so wonderful. It was

352
00:18:09,200 --> 00:18:11,640
Speaker 4: a great I mean, I definitely liked it a lot

353
00:18:11,640 --> 00:18:15,040
Speaker 4: better seeing it in a huge theater because it was

354
00:18:15,040 --> 00:18:19,600
Speaker 4: both Rida Moreno and Tony Oh my god, Tony who's

355
00:18:19,600 --> 00:18:25,760
Speaker 4: also in Twin Peaks. Richard Bamer was there and at

356
00:18:25,800 --> 00:18:28,560
Speaker 4: the time, yeah, and he's still alive, but he and

357
00:18:28,680 --> 00:18:31,120
Speaker 4: Rida Moreno had this very sweet dynamic. I guess they've

358
00:18:31,119 --> 00:18:35,640
Speaker 4: been friends for like our parents' entire lifetimes. Riada Moreno

359
00:18:35,760 --> 00:18:39,280
Speaker 4: is so funny, and I mean, we'll talk about this

360
00:18:39,640 --> 00:18:41,920
Speaker 4: as we get into the discussion, but I really appreciate

361
00:18:42,000 --> 00:18:44,720
Speaker 4: how she I don't know, I feel like she's really

362
00:18:44,760 --> 00:18:47,520
Speaker 4: able to hold a lot of truths at once when

363
00:18:47,560 --> 00:18:50,320
Speaker 4: it comes to this movie. She is not shy about

364
00:18:50,720 --> 00:18:54,720
Speaker 4: talking about the obvious glaring issues with this movie of

365
00:18:54,760 --> 00:18:58,800
Speaker 4: the aggressive use of brown face. She had a lot

366
00:18:58,800 --> 00:19:01,840
Speaker 4: of comments on stage this time, I believe, in like

367
00:19:01,880 --> 00:19:04,840
Speaker 4: over the years, about how the scene with Anita Layt

368
00:19:04,880 --> 00:19:07,600
Speaker 4: in the movie where she's assaulted by the Jets, how

369
00:19:07,600 --> 00:19:12,439
Speaker 4: that personally affected her. But the most impactful part of

370
00:19:12,480 --> 00:19:15,399
Speaker 4: the discussion to me was when apropos of Nothing. In

371
00:19:15,440 --> 00:19:17,720
Speaker 4: the middle of this talk back, where she was talking

372
00:19:17,720 --> 00:19:19,200
Speaker 4: about West Side Story in a way that i'd heard

373
00:19:19,200 --> 00:19:22,920
Speaker 4: her talk before, she randomly brought up that she had

374
00:19:22,960 --> 00:19:26,159
Speaker 4: fucked Marlon Brando and his dick was huge. Oh, I

375
00:19:26,160 --> 00:19:26,720
Speaker 4: have a lot.

376
00:19:27,160 --> 00:19:28,800
Speaker 2: I have a lot to add to that discussion on

377
00:19:28,840 --> 00:19:30,880
Speaker 2: the Marlon Brando of it all because I just read

378
00:19:30,880 --> 00:19:31,440
Speaker 2: her memoir.

379
00:19:31,840 --> 00:19:34,000
Speaker 4: Oh my god, there is It's like.

380
00:19:34,800 --> 00:19:38,480
Speaker 2: It's like girl at ninety years old, my love, I

381
00:19:38,920 --> 00:19:39,480
Speaker 2: let it go.

382
00:19:40,320 --> 00:19:42,760
Speaker 4: She is still she's still hung up.

383
00:19:42,880 --> 00:19:45,119
Speaker 2: We get we'll get into that, but like I'm like,

384
00:19:45,200 --> 00:19:48,400
Speaker 2: I have so much knowledge right now about it. It's crazy.

385
00:19:48,680 --> 00:19:50,840
Speaker 4: Please I want I haven't read her memory yet. But

386
00:19:50,880 --> 00:19:53,800
Speaker 4: it was so funny because everyone was like, wait, what

387
00:19:54,080 --> 00:19:55,919
Speaker 4: question prompted this anecdote?

388
00:19:56,200 --> 00:19:59,119
Speaker 2: Like she if she can, she will. She's like, and

389
00:19:59,160 --> 00:20:01,159
Speaker 2: the love of my life, even though I was married

390
00:20:01,200 --> 00:20:03,320
Speaker 2: to a man for fifty something years and have my

391
00:20:03,400 --> 00:20:07,000
Speaker 2: child with them. I love Marlon Brando, and you're like,

392
00:20:07,400 --> 00:20:12,240
Speaker 2: you're liked Moreno, he did not love you that way, Like.

393
00:20:12,400 --> 00:20:15,199
Speaker 4: Oh, but that's the But isn't that the one you

394
00:20:15,280 --> 00:20:17,960
Speaker 4: end up hung up on? Too bad for her? I

395
00:20:17,960 --> 00:20:20,560
Speaker 4: know I was that. I looked up her like her

396
00:20:20,600 --> 00:20:22,439
Speaker 4: mar I was like, oh and she was married for

397
00:20:22,480 --> 00:20:23,879
Speaker 4: so long. He did not come up.

398
00:20:24,119 --> 00:20:28,040
Speaker 2: No, she's truly like, that's my daughter's father, and that's it.

399
00:20:28,359 --> 00:20:29,960
Speaker 2: I might have been married to him, but that's my

400
00:20:30,320 --> 00:20:32,240
Speaker 2: that's my daughter's father, not my husband.

401
00:20:32,400 --> 00:20:35,320
Speaker 4: Yeah, my husband was a beard for Marlon Brando.

402
00:20:35,640 --> 00:20:40,879
Speaker 1: Basically, it's like in Titanic when old Rose is like

403
00:20:41,160 --> 00:20:44,280
Speaker 1: my husband, who I only care about? Jack? Dawson.

404
00:20:44,400 --> 00:20:47,879
Speaker 2: No, it literally is like that, except it's more romantic

405
00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:52,200
Speaker 2: in Titanic because Jack Dawson obviously loved her and Marlon

406
00:20:52,240 --> 00:20:54,280
Speaker 2: Brando abused read.

407
00:20:54,280 --> 00:20:59,160
Speaker 4: Morne for yeah like a dad man, And I do

408
00:20:59,760 --> 00:21:02,680
Speaker 4: reck recommend it's a rare experience, but I do recommend

409
00:21:02,800 --> 00:21:05,080
Speaker 4: the version of watching was Eel White gets so much

410
00:21:05,160 --> 00:21:08,280
Speaker 4: better if Riedom Morano talks about Marlon Brando's penis immediately

411
00:21:08,280 --> 00:21:12,359
Speaker 4: before it starts. That was the most recent time I

412
00:21:12,359 --> 00:21:16,200
Speaker 4: had seen it. And yeah, I mean I am able

413
00:21:16,240 --> 00:21:19,639
Speaker 4: to appreciate a lot of this movie. I love a musical.

414
00:21:19,720 --> 00:21:26,240
Speaker 4: It's beautiful. It's likeaful, colorful Riadom Moreno steals the show.

415
00:21:26,320 --> 00:21:27,120
Speaker 2: Steals the show.

416
00:21:27,720 --> 00:21:30,760
Speaker 4: I do you know. I will always feel that Natalie

417
00:21:30,760 --> 00:21:34,040
Speaker 4: Wood and Richard Bahmer, bless their hearts, are stinking up

418
00:21:34,080 --> 00:21:39,920
Speaker 4: the place. Well, we'll obviously be talking in depth about

419
00:21:39,960 --> 00:21:42,040
Speaker 4: the use of brown face throughout the history of this production.

420
00:21:42,520 --> 00:21:45,160
Speaker 2: And I have some notes on her on Natalie Wood's racism.

421
00:21:45,200 --> 00:21:46,480
Speaker 2: That's from Riadam Morino's book.

422
00:21:46,840 --> 00:21:50,000
Speaker 4: Really okay. Yeah, So, in spite of the fact that

423
00:21:50,040 --> 00:21:53,920
Speaker 4: the two leads, I will say are very poorly cast

424
00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:58,359
Speaker 4: for multiple reasons, the supporting cast is wonderful and I

425
00:21:59,240 --> 00:22:03,320
Speaker 4: appreciate it with many asterisks, and I'm excited to talk

426
00:22:03,359 --> 00:22:03,760
Speaker 4: about it.

427
00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:07,639
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, indeed. Well let's take a quick break and

428
00:22:07,640 --> 00:22:26,600
Speaker 1: then we'll come back for the recap. We're back. I

429
00:22:26,600 --> 00:22:28,400
Speaker 1: wonder how that's going to actually.

430
00:22:28,040 --> 00:22:31,719
Speaker 4: Sound on the recording on the zoom.

431
00:22:31,920 --> 00:22:34,640
Speaker 2: So it's like, yeah, we can hear it in your

432
00:22:34,720 --> 00:22:36,720
Speaker 2: mic probably, but not in our minds.

433
00:22:37,440 --> 00:22:41,960
Speaker 1: We're like, yes, exactly, uh huh, I did it perfectly,

434
00:22:42,119 --> 00:22:46,600
Speaker 1: just so you know. Okay, here's the story. We open

435
00:22:47,040 --> 00:22:53,400
Speaker 1: on a street gang of young men slash. Are they teenagers?

436
00:22:53,640 --> 00:22:55,919
Speaker 4: They're like c W. I think that I like the

437
00:22:56,000 --> 00:22:58,919
Speaker 4: CW casting here where everyone's like kind of forty.

438
00:22:59,080 --> 00:23:03,280
Speaker 2: Everyone's definitely at least thirty, because Rita Moreno's thirty yea

439
00:23:03,520 --> 00:23:04,200
Speaker 2: at this time.

440
00:23:04,440 --> 00:23:09,640
Speaker 1: So but they're playing like sixteen, eighteen, maybe early twenties.

441
00:23:09,720 --> 00:23:12,800
Speaker 1: It's all like very young, so right, Yeah, anyway, this

442
00:23:12,920 --> 00:23:16,880
Speaker 1: street gang of men are snapping their fingers and dancing

443
00:23:16,880 --> 00:23:19,200
Speaker 1: their way through New York City. Ever heard of it?

444
00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:22,240
Speaker 1: These are the jets.

445
00:23:22,560 --> 00:23:25,479
Speaker 4: I love the snaps. The snaps are iconic.

446
00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:31,680
Speaker 1: Yes, they are white men. An unsettling number of them

447
00:23:31,760 --> 00:23:32,800
Speaker 1: are blonde.

448
00:23:33,600 --> 00:23:37,480
Speaker 2: Which is purposeful, mind you that was a casting choice. Yeah.

449
00:23:37,600 --> 00:23:38,199
Speaker 1: Yeah.

450
00:23:38,520 --> 00:23:42,679
Speaker 4: Their leader is Riff, played by Amber Tamblin's dad.

451
00:23:43,040 --> 00:23:45,879
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, wow, I didn't know that she was

452
00:23:46,119 --> 00:23:47,080
Speaker 1: a Nippo baby.

453
00:23:47,359 --> 00:23:49,479
Speaker 4: It's a it's yeah, I guess if you don't know

454
00:23:49,520 --> 00:23:53,200
Speaker 4: about nineteen fifties Broadway star Russ Hamblin, it's a not starter.

455
00:23:56,080 --> 00:24:00,280
Speaker 1: And then a few others. We meet our characters named nice,

456
00:24:01,720 --> 00:24:07,720
Speaker 1: horrible name with the current affiliation. There's a character named Action.

457
00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:10,640
Speaker 1: There's a character with a name that I don't even

458
00:24:10,680 --> 00:24:14,080
Speaker 1: want to say because it's a slur for Arab people.

459
00:24:15,520 --> 00:24:19,480
Speaker 1: Not sure what's happening there anyway? Are those are the jets?

460
00:24:19,800 --> 00:24:25,639
Speaker 1: They encounter various members of the Sharks, a group of

461
00:24:25,960 --> 00:24:30,320
Speaker 1: Puerto Rican men, and as we've alluded to several times already,

462
00:24:30,440 --> 00:24:33,359
Speaker 1: it is a lot of white actors in brown face.

463
00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:36,480
Speaker 2: Can I know which ones are actually Puerto Ricanan not?

464
00:24:36,920 --> 00:24:38,119
Speaker 4: Yes? Yes, please?

465
00:24:38,200 --> 00:24:42,679
Speaker 2: Okay? So Chino who is Jose de Vega. He is

466
00:24:43,240 --> 00:24:45,679
Speaker 2: not Puerto Rican, but he is Colombian and Filipino. He's

467
00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:48,600
Speaker 2: one of the few actual men of color in the Sharks.

468
00:24:49,440 --> 00:24:53,840
Speaker 2: Him Rogers Loco is Puerto Rican and he's from Junko's

469
00:24:53,840 --> 00:24:57,720
Speaker 2: which is where Rita Moreno's from. Oh and the main

470
00:24:57,880 --> 00:25:02,920
Speaker 2: Shark though Bernardo he is actually Greek and he played

471
00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:07,680
Speaker 2: a riff in the West Side Story Broadway production, so

472
00:25:07,800 --> 00:25:11,680
Speaker 2: they literally just like race traded him and brown faced

473
00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:13,840
Speaker 2: him and they're like, you could be Bernardo and.

474
00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:16,600
Speaker 4: He won an oscar, and he won an Oscar for it.

475
00:25:16,720 --> 00:25:20,159
Speaker 4: Which is the amount of times the Oscars have awarded

476
00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:24,680
Speaker 4: performances of this nature is I mean, in like just

477
00:25:25,280 --> 00:25:29,480
Speaker 4: openly offensive performances still happens, Still happens. I'm looking at you,

478
00:25:29,720 --> 00:25:34,040
Speaker 4: Eddie redmain Danish girl still happens to this day. Yeah.

479
00:25:36,240 --> 00:25:39,240
Speaker 1: So the thing about the Jets and the Sharks is

480
00:25:39,359 --> 00:25:42,200
Speaker 1: that they are rivals. You might even call it a

481
00:25:42,280 --> 00:25:43,640
Speaker 1: heated rivalry.

482
00:25:43,520 --> 00:25:46,760
Speaker 4: But I do reely well, I mean, this is like

483
00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:49,280
Speaker 4: what there's in the twenty thousand things that are to

484
00:25:49,320 --> 00:25:51,960
Speaker 4: talk about in this movie, the like top gun nature

485
00:25:52,119 --> 00:25:55,080
Speaker 4: to the fraternal like the fraternal nature of the gangs,

486
00:25:55,600 --> 00:25:59,120
Speaker 4: like there there is some eroticism. This was written by

487
00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:02,720
Speaker 4: will not shock you or anyone if you don't know

488
00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:06,560
Speaker 4: that this was a musical written by white gay guys.

489
00:26:08,119 --> 00:26:13,760
Speaker 2: Yes correct at the time closeted and therefore they were,

490
00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:17,680
Speaker 2: from what I read, exercising some of their own issues

491
00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:18,480
Speaker 2: through the text.

492
00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:20,240
Speaker 4: Yes, yes, yeah.

493
00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:24,680
Speaker 1: So the point is the Jets and the Sharks are rivals,

494
00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:29,960
Speaker 1: kind of like the Capulets and the Montagues. What is

495
00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:33,440
Speaker 1: this a Romeo and Juliette adaptation, except in this case

496
00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:37,320
Speaker 1: one group is very racist toward the other group, and

497
00:26:37,440 --> 00:26:41,320
Speaker 1: you can guess which. So they're like on the same

498
00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:44,720
Speaker 1: playground or some They're in the streets together and they

499
00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:49,200
Speaker 1: are dance fighting for a while until a couple of

500
00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:54,080
Speaker 1: cops show up. This is Lieutenant Shrank, and I'm like,

501
00:26:54,359 --> 00:26:55,800
Speaker 1: Lieutenant sure.

502
00:26:56,040 --> 00:27:02,000
Speaker 4: Crack, there's not the only shark connection reaction to this,

503
00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:05,240
Speaker 4: because I feel like we have to have brought this

504
00:27:05,359 --> 00:27:08,800
Speaker 4: up at some point. Rachel Zegler iconically, when she got

505
00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:11,480
Speaker 4: the part of Maria in the twenty twenty one version,

506
00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:13,880
Speaker 4: they wanted her to start filming and she's like, well,

507
00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:16,639
Speaker 4: I have to finish starring as Princess Fiona in my

508
00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:21,320
Speaker 4: high school's production of musical and then I'll join your

509
00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:25,240
Speaker 4: little movie, Steven Spielberg. She's so awesome.

510
00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:29,600
Speaker 1: I did not know that. That's amazing. Yeah, wow, shout

511
00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:34,200
Speaker 1: out Rachel Zegler a very outspoken pro Palestine advocate.

512
00:27:34,400 --> 00:27:36,919
Speaker 2: Yes, which I'm a fan of Rachel Zegler as a person.

513
00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:40,320
Speaker 2: I will say, did not like her as Maria, and

514
00:27:40,440 --> 00:27:43,480
Speaker 2: that's a conversation for later. But I'm like, I'm a

515
00:27:43,560 --> 00:27:45,840
Speaker 2: fan of her, but I just don't think she was

516
00:27:46,080 --> 00:27:48,399
Speaker 2: quite right for the part. I think people are very

517
00:27:48,440 --> 00:27:51,920
Speaker 2: wrapped up in her vocals, which are, no question, some

518
00:27:52,040 --> 00:27:54,520
Speaker 2: of the best vocals out there, right, and they were

519
00:27:54,920 --> 00:27:58,200
Speaker 2: incredible in the movie. But I don't think she was

520
00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:00,520
Speaker 2: a good Maria. And we can have that just later.

521
00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:02,640
Speaker 4: And I'm so curious for your thoughts. Yeah, I still haven't.

522
00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:06,119
Speaker 4: I still haven't seen her as Maria, but she does

523
00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:09,920
Speaker 4: have perfect politics and is a podcast listener. She's like,

524
00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:13,800
Speaker 4: yeah on blank fan of you, Rachel Zegler, Yeah, she

525
00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:17,320
Speaker 4: should come on our show. Yeah, but I'm I'm excited

526
00:28:17,320 --> 00:28:19,240
Speaker 4: to talk about the twenty twenty one version. Interesting.

527
00:28:20,800 --> 00:28:23,280
Speaker 1: Okay, so it's Lieutenant Shrek.

528
00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:26,960
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's Shrek, and Shrek is a bad man.

529
00:28:27,280 --> 00:28:30,600
Speaker 1: He's a really bad man. Yeah, and we'll talk about

530
00:28:30,840 --> 00:28:34,720
Speaker 1: the character's relationship to the police in this movie, because

531
00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:35,760
Speaker 1: I think it's quite interesting.

532
00:28:36,080 --> 00:28:38,080
Speaker 4: I think it's more it's way more nuanced that I

533
00:28:38,280 --> 00:28:40,400
Speaker 4: recalled Yes, yeah, for sure.

534
00:28:41,560 --> 00:28:47,360
Speaker 1: So so it's Lieutenant Shrank and Officer kup Key. They

535
00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:50,040
Speaker 1: show up to try to like kind of break up

536
00:28:50,120 --> 00:28:55,080
Speaker 1: the dance fight, but the various members of the two

537
00:28:55,440 --> 00:28:59,160
Speaker 1: gangs refuse to rat on each other, and one of

538
00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:02,960
Speaker 1: them even suggects that it was the cops who injured

539
00:29:03,040 --> 00:29:05,880
Speaker 1: one of the Jets. So the Jets and the Sharks

540
00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:06,880
Speaker 1: say a cab.

541
00:29:07,160 --> 00:29:09,080
Speaker 2: They said a cab street rules.

542
00:29:09,080 --> 00:29:14,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, and the cops were like, stop you guys, stop it,

543
00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:15,840
Speaker 1: and then they eventually leave.

544
00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:18,640
Speaker 4: Also, in this version of New York, if only it

545
00:29:18,680 --> 00:29:20,400
Speaker 4: were real, there's two cops.

546
00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:23,840
Speaker 2: There's there's only two cops that are following this specific

547
00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:26,160
Speaker 2: gang around. They're like, I'm with you.

548
00:29:26,760 --> 00:29:31,640
Speaker 4: Yeah, we're racist too. The other officer, Kraftkey, reminded me

549
00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:38,040
Speaker 4: of Kronk from Emerson Group. He's just like not a

550
00:29:38,200 --> 00:29:40,360
Speaker 4: thought in this man's head. Many such cops.

551
00:29:41,240 --> 00:29:45,120
Speaker 2: He's just bully. He's just like, yeah, hey, guys, stuck

552
00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:45,440
Speaker 2: it off.

553
00:29:45,560 --> 00:29:46,280
Speaker 4: Knock it off.

554
00:29:47,080 --> 00:29:51,160
Speaker 1: Yes. So the cops eventually leave, and the Jets wonder

555
00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:55,400
Speaker 1: what to do about the Sharks quote unquote encroaching on

556
00:29:55,680 --> 00:29:59,800
Speaker 1: their turf riff. The leader of the Jets, announces the

557
00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:05,960
Speaker 1: they should have one huge fight, a big rumble, a

558
00:30:06,040 --> 00:30:09,800
Speaker 1: fight to end all fights with the Sharks. But first

559
00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:13,760
Speaker 1: they need to negotiate with the Sharks about the terms

560
00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:18,640
Speaker 1: of this rumble. So Riff goes to Tony, who used

561
00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:21,760
Speaker 1: to be a Jet, and Tony is still friends with them,

562
00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:24,360
Speaker 1: but he's like not really involved and they are gang

563
00:30:24,520 --> 00:30:25,640
Speaker 1: activities anymore.

564
00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:28,880
Speaker 2: They do not give enough backstory as to like why

565
00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:32,400
Speaker 2: and like what happened, which twenty twenty one version tries

566
00:30:32,440 --> 00:30:32,960
Speaker 2: to revise.

567
00:30:33,160 --> 00:30:36,600
Speaker 4: But yeah, correct, I feel like, yeah in sixty one,

568
00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:38,680
Speaker 4: it's just like he's like I'm kind of over it.

569
00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:42,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, you're like, that's not how gangs work.

570
00:30:42,440 --> 00:30:46,120
Speaker 4: Really, it's my part time job now, guys. Sorry. Yeah.

571
00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:50,760
Speaker 1: Uh So he's out of the group, but Riff wants

572
00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:54,400
Speaker 1: to rope him back in and if he loves Tony,

573
00:30:54,880 --> 00:30:58,480
Speaker 1: he's like he's basically like, hey, babe, want to go

574
00:30:58,600 --> 00:31:04,080
Speaker 1: to the dance with me tonight. I from the and

575
00:31:04,160 --> 00:31:04,760
Speaker 1: start a War.

576
00:31:05,720 --> 00:31:09,120
Speaker 4: I do really like the Tony's first song. There's like

577
00:31:09,800 --> 00:31:12,280
Speaker 4: this something that I think this this movie does really

578
00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:17,920
Speaker 4: well is like very like romanticizes and captures naive optimism

579
00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:21,680
Speaker 4: and love and I like that first Tony song and

580
00:31:21,760 --> 00:31:23,800
Speaker 4: I like the dance scene for that reason.

581
00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:31,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, so Tony reluctantly agrees to join this negotiation. But

582
00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:34,840
Speaker 1: again with Tony, he's more of a lover than a fighter,

583
00:31:35,120 --> 00:31:38,480
Speaker 1: and he's talking about how he's been yearning for something

584
00:31:39,120 --> 00:31:41,719
Speaker 1: and maybe that's something is the love of a woman,

585
00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:46,640
Speaker 1: and maybe that woman is Maria, who we cut too.

586
00:31:47,280 --> 00:31:51,560
Speaker 1: She is played by Natalie wood Oops, another white person

587
00:31:51,680 --> 00:31:52,680
Speaker 1: in brown face.

588
00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:56,040
Speaker 4: Who, as is very common at this time, is not

589
00:31:56,240 --> 00:31:59,640
Speaker 4: singing her own role. So there's the only justification for

590
00:31:59,680 --> 00:32:01,920
Speaker 4: her play this role is that she was famous at

591
00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:02,400
Speaker 4: the time.

592
00:32:02,800 --> 00:32:07,760
Speaker 1: Yeah right, Yeah, So Maria is getting ready for the dance.

593
00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:12,719
Speaker 1: She is Bernardo's sister who has recently arrived in New

594
00:32:12,800 --> 00:32:16,240
Speaker 1: York from Puerto Rico. She's hanging out with her friend

595
00:32:16,320 --> 00:32:21,960
Speaker 1: Anita played by Rita Marino, who is dating Bernardo. Maria

596
00:32:22,560 --> 00:32:26,360
Speaker 1: is supposed to marry or she's like kind of been

597
00:32:26,520 --> 00:32:29,719
Speaker 1: linked up with this guy named Chino, one of the Sharks,

598
00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:33,040
Speaker 1: but she's not thrilled about it, which.

599
00:32:32,960 --> 00:32:36,080
Speaker 2: Some insight on why they probably named him Chino specifically

600
00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:38,960
Speaker 2: based on who they casted. I don't I mean I

601
00:32:39,440 --> 00:32:43,960
Speaker 2: don't know if they had this thought with the actual

602
00:32:44,000 --> 00:32:46,720
Speaker 2: Broadway production, but in a lot of like Latino communities,

603
00:32:47,080 --> 00:32:49,480
Speaker 2: they will give you a nickname based on like a

604
00:32:49,640 --> 00:32:53,320
Speaker 2: characteristic of you. And I'm assuming they casted a Filipino

605
00:32:53,680 --> 00:32:58,120
Speaker 2: and Latino actor because Chino usually means that person is Asian,

606
00:32:59,520 --> 00:33:04,160
Speaker 2: so they were probably like, he's Chinese and Puerto Ricans,

607
00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:05,040
Speaker 2: so we call him Gino.

608
00:33:05,520 --> 00:33:10,280
Speaker 4: Interesting, Okay, interesting? Yeah, there were certain nicknames throughout the

609
00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:11,960
Speaker 4: Jets and Sharks that I was like, I don't know

610
00:33:12,040 --> 00:33:14,160
Speaker 4: if there is a ground for this or if it

611
00:33:14,320 --> 00:33:17,640
Speaker 4: is just like vaguely racist free form jazz.

612
00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:19,800
Speaker 2: It's a little bit of both, because it's like Gino

613
00:33:19,880 --> 00:33:22,200
Speaker 2: could be like some racist shit the white people wrote,

614
00:33:22,200 --> 00:33:23,360
Speaker 2: because that's why I'm like, I don't know how much

615
00:33:23,440 --> 00:33:26,520
Speaker 2: historical contacts they have, but it's also not out of

616
00:33:26,680 --> 00:33:29,720
Speaker 2: character for Latino communities, Like I was called Laka my

617
00:33:29,760 --> 00:33:32,280
Speaker 2: whole life because I was like the skinny cousin, you know,

618
00:33:32,880 --> 00:33:36,320
Speaker 2: So yeah, it's partially that. Oh sure.

619
00:33:37,960 --> 00:33:41,360
Speaker 1: So then we cut to the dance. The Jets and

620
00:33:41,440 --> 00:33:44,560
Speaker 1: the Sharks are both there because her four be damned.

621
00:33:44,640 --> 00:33:47,440
Speaker 1: When there's a school dance to be had, you gotta

622
00:33:47,520 --> 00:33:52,320
Speaker 1: dance and this means another dance fight. Although okay, so

623
00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:55,200
Speaker 1: in this movie there are fight dances and then there

624
00:33:55,240 --> 00:33:58,600
Speaker 1: are dance fights. Yes, and there are two different things. Yes,

625
00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:02,800
Speaker 1: this you know when you see it's precisely this is

626
00:34:02,840 --> 00:34:04,280
Speaker 1: an example of a dance fight.

627
00:34:04,760 --> 00:34:05,520
Speaker 4: It's so good.

628
00:34:05,720 --> 00:34:07,280
Speaker 2: I love like this is one of my favorite scenes.

629
00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:10,560
Speaker 2: It's so fun. It's so like old Hollywood, but like

630
00:34:10,920 --> 00:34:13,640
Speaker 2: the best parts of old Hollywood where people really like

631
00:34:13,800 --> 00:34:16,400
Speaker 2: were like focused on their craft and they were dancers

632
00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:18,279
Speaker 2: and they were singers and their actors, and it's like

633
00:34:18,680 --> 00:34:22,360
Speaker 2: the colors and the editing. It's you see readA Morino

634
00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:26,080
Speaker 2: really shine like as a dancer here, it's like good. Oh,

635
00:34:26,440 --> 00:34:27,040
Speaker 2: it's so good.

636
00:34:27,239 --> 00:34:30,680
Speaker 4: It's so cool. Like and the Jerome Robins choreography, Yes,

637
00:34:30,880 --> 00:34:35,760
Speaker 4: so beautiful for those that are locked into Jerome Robin's culture.

638
00:34:35,960 --> 00:34:39,520
Speaker 4: He directed and was an iconic choreographer. I feel like

639
00:34:39,560 --> 00:34:41,600
Speaker 4: he's like kind of on par with Bob Fosse for

640
00:34:41,680 --> 00:34:44,440
Speaker 4: like the most influential choreographers of like the twentieth century.

641
00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:48,000
Speaker 4: He did on The Town, Peter Pan, The King and I,

642
00:34:48,160 --> 00:34:51,359
Speaker 4: The Pajama Game, West Side Story, Fiddler on the Roof.

643
00:34:52,120 --> 00:34:53,400
Speaker 4: He won two oscars.

644
00:34:53,719 --> 00:34:55,360
Speaker 2: He's just like incredible.

645
00:34:55,400 --> 00:34:59,239
Speaker 4: The dance fights and the fight dances are just undeniable.

646
00:34:59,040 --> 00:35:00,000
Speaker 1: Very well choreographed.

647
00:35:00,200 --> 00:35:00,879
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah.

648
00:35:01,640 --> 00:35:05,879
Speaker 1: So at the dance, Maria and Tony meet and they

649
00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:11,319
Speaker 1: go hubba hubba a wooga and they fall immediately in love.

650
00:35:11,560 --> 00:35:16,400
Speaker 4: I love the editing. They're so in love, you're like, and.

651
00:35:16,440 --> 00:35:20,160
Speaker 1: They're about to kiss, but Bernardo butts in and separates them,

652
00:35:20,239 --> 00:35:24,560
Speaker 1: being like, stay away from my sister. Thus the forbidden

653
00:35:25,320 --> 00:35:31,719
Speaker 1: Romeo and Juliet esque love story. Then Riff and Bernardo

654
00:35:31,920 --> 00:35:37,480
Speaker 1: make arrangements to have their rumble negotiation meeting that night

655
00:35:37,600 --> 00:35:41,640
Speaker 1: at midnight, So everyone leaves the dance. Tony heads home.

656
00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:45,120
Speaker 1: He's singing about how much he loves Maria. He just

657
00:35:45,200 --> 00:35:46,280
Speaker 1: met a girl named Maria.

658
00:35:46,760 --> 00:35:51,799
Speaker 2: Well yes, yeah, say loud and there's music playing, say

659
00:35:51,880 --> 00:35:55,120
Speaker 2: it softly and it's almost like pray.

660
00:35:56,239 --> 00:35:59,960
Speaker 4: I really so good. This musical really captures falling in love.

661
00:36:00,200 --> 00:36:03,319
Speaker 4: It's so sweet. This reminded me a lot of because

662
00:36:03,320 --> 00:36:06,800
Speaker 4: Stephen Sondheim wrote the lyrics for these songs. Yes, and

663
00:36:06,840 --> 00:36:09,520
Speaker 4: it's very similar to another song he writes later in

664
00:36:09,640 --> 00:36:12,640
Speaker 4: Sweeney Todd Joanna, which is basically the same song but

665
00:36:12,760 --> 00:36:16,840
Speaker 4: different where he's like, I feel you Joa No, Like,

666
00:36:16,960 --> 00:36:18,400
Speaker 4: it's just like I just met a woman and now

667
00:36:18,400 --> 00:36:21,719
Speaker 4: I'm screaming her name in the streets. It's a vibe.

668
00:36:21,760 --> 00:36:23,840
Speaker 4: I like it. It's like, oh, yeah, I guess this.

669
00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:26,840
Speaker 4: Sondheim was like, uh, so you meet a lady and

670
00:36:26,920 --> 00:36:28,600
Speaker 4: it feels a little something like this.

671
00:36:31,200 --> 00:36:34,040
Speaker 1: Well, it's funny that you say that. This movie like

672
00:36:34,360 --> 00:36:37,840
Speaker 1: captures falling in love, and it's nice because the cynic

673
00:36:37,920 --> 00:36:40,399
Speaker 1: in me. I was like, Oh, these characters have known

674
00:36:40,440 --> 00:36:42,680
Speaker 1: each other for two days and they're already so obsessed

675
00:36:42,719 --> 00:36:44,440
Speaker 1: with each other that they're willing to die for each other.

676
00:36:44,560 --> 00:36:45,440
Speaker 2: That's Shakespeare.

677
00:36:45,840 --> 00:36:48,360
Speaker 4: The kids, It's exciting, like, that's.

678
00:36:48,200 --> 00:36:51,120
Speaker 2: The exact thing, that is what Shakespeare did. It was like,

679
00:36:51,200 --> 00:36:54,640
Speaker 2: what three days and all of them happens in Yeah.

680
00:36:55,440 --> 00:36:57,839
Speaker 4: I mean, at least Natalie Wood isn't a twelve year old,

681
00:36:58,000 --> 00:36:59,680
Speaker 4: you know, there's true.

682
00:37:00,480 --> 00:37:03,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I agree watching this version, you are kind

683
00:37:03,040 --> 00:37:05,400
Speaker 2: of like, oh, I feel like I will give the

684
00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:07,520
Speaker 2: twenty twenty one credit. I feel like they gave a

685
00:37:07,640 --> 00:37:10,560
Speaker 2: little bit more for them to like fall in love,

686
00:37:10,680 --> 00:37:11,520
Speaker 2: at least a little bit.

687
00:37:11,480 --> 00:37:14,799
Speaker 1: More talking I don't know, and then other characters being

688
00:37:14,920 --> 00:37:16,600
Speaker 1: like you've known him for a day.

689
00:37:17,200 --> 00:37:18,560
Speaker 4: Yeah, like ohous.

690
00:37:18,600 --> 00:37:18,799
Speaker 2: Yeah.

691
00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:20,800
Speaker 4: I don't like when movies do that. I feel like

692
00:37:20,880 --> 00:37:23,359
Speaker 4: that started in like when Frozen did that where it's

693
00:37:23,360 --> 00:37:26,880
Speaker 4: like you have to like call out this like romantic narrative.

694
00:37:27,160 --> 00:37:30,680
Speaker 4: I don't know, I'm I'm hopeless romantic mode. But whenever

695
00:37:31,160 --> 00:37:33,240
Speaker 4: something like that is happening in a movie and someone's

696
00:37:33,280 --> 00:37:36,080
Speaker 4: like record scratch, Wait a second, you just met, I'm

697
00:37:36,120 --> 00:37:37,400
Speaker 4: like shot at a movie.

698
00:37:37,920 --> 00:37:40,680
Speaker 1: I'm the one. I'm the one making the record scratch

699
00:37:40,719 --> 00:37:41,200
Speaker 1: because I'm.

700
00:37:41,160 --> 00:37:44,680
Speaker 4: Just like it's ridiculous and I'm saying, shut the hell up,

701
00:37:44,760 --> 00:37:48,000
Speaker 4: I'm gonna go have sex, like I think it's exciting.

702
00:37:48,080 --> 00:37:50,960
Speaker 2: It's less like I feel like in this nineteen sixty

703
00:37:51,000 --> 00:37:54,200
Speaker 2: one version it works for me because it is so

704
00:37:54,600 --> 00:37:58,040
Speaker 2: shot like an actual play, whereas they do actually in

705
00:37:58,160 --> 00:38:01,239
Speaker 2: the nineteen or nineteen the twenty between one version, they

706
00:38:01,320 --> 00:38:03,120
Speaker 2: try to make it a movie, and I do think

707
00:38:03,120 --> 00:38:06,480
Speaker 2: that's way more different in the two, whereas like I

708
00:38:06,600 --> 00:38:09,560
Speaker 2: can I'm like I'm in the world in the nineteen

709
00:38:09,600 --> 00:38:11,399
Speaker 2: sixty one one because You're like this is a play,

710
00:38:11,520 --> 00:38:14,080
Speaker 2: like it actually looks like I'm watching something on Broadway.

711
00:38:14,440 --> 00:38:16,680
Speaker 2: But the twenty Tway one. They're trying to like world,

712
00:38:16,760 --> 00:38:19,680
Speaker 2: build it more and it feels like a feel more

713
00:38:19,920 --> 00:38:23,120
Speaker 2: like sense. Yeah, so then I'm kind of taken out

714
00:38:23,160 --> 00:38:25,280
Speaker 2: of it a little more in the twenty tway one version,

715
00:38:25,600 --> 00:38:25,960
Speaker 2: which is.

716
00:38:26,040 --> 00:38:28,960
Speaker 4: Wild too because in the I didn't know there's a

717
00:38:29,680 --> 00:38:31,520
Speaker 4: I feel like we cite her on the show pretty frequently.

718
00:38:31,600 --> 00:38:34,960
Speaker 4: There's a b kind rewind video essay that sort of

719
00:38:35,040 --> 00:38:38,040
Speaker 4: compares the two versions and like how the productions were

720
00:38:38,120 --> 00:38:41,600
Speaker 4: very different and all that, and this movie was considered

721
00:38:42,239 --> 00:38:45,440
Speaker 4: to be very It feels like ridiculous to say if

722
00:38:45,480 --> 00:38:48,120
Speaker 4: it was considered to be very gritty in comparison to

723
00:38:48,200 --> 00:38:50,800
Speaker 4: other musicals of the time. Yeah, because it was actually

724
00:38:50,960 --> 00:38:54,640
Speaker 4: shot outside and like not completely on a sound stage,

725
00:38:54,800 --> 00:38:57,399
Speaker 4: but it looks so Broadway. I don't know, it looks

726
00:38:57,440 --> 00:38:59,719
Speaker 4: like a broad Bay set. It's shocking that it is not.

727
00:39:00,320 --> 00:39:02,480
Speaker 2: But also most of it is on a Broadway set

728
00:39:02,600 --> 00:39:04,560
Speaker 2: from what I write. So I was like, what they

729
00:39:04,600 --> 00:39:07,000
Speaker 2: shot two scenes outside and you're calling it gritty.

730
00:39:07,320 --> 00:39:10,239
Speaker 4: It's just like the beginning basically, and they're like, never

731
00:39:10,360 --> 00:39:11,920
Speaker 4: been done before, it's filthy.

732
00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:19,040
Speaker 1: Okay, sure, yeah, Okay, So Tony is in love with

733
00:39:19,280 --> 00:39:23,600
Speaker 1: Maria and Maria is in love with Tony. Meanwhile, the

734
00:39:23,760 --> 00:39:28,880
Speaker 1: Sharks talk about the racial prejudice they face, how they

735
00:39:29,000 --> 00:39:32,799
Speaker 1: are treated horribly by white people. This is the scene

736
00:39:32,800 --> 00:39:36,160
Speaker 1: where they sing I like to be in America, which

737
00:39:36,200 --> 00:39:36,920
Speaker 1: okay by me and.

738
00:39:37,000 --> 00:39:41,120
Speaker 4: America, well we'll sidebar on that yes song, which is

739
00:39:41,440 --> 00:39:42,719
Speaker 4: the whole episode in and of.

740
00:39:42,760 --> 00:39:49,600
Speaker 1: It's unpacked there. Yeah, Tony goes to Maria's apartment, but

741
00:39:49,760 --> 00:39:53,319
Speaker 1: like the outside balcony part, and they sing at each

742
00:39:53,360 --> 00:39:56,520
Speaker 1: other again. They're obsessed with each other. They make plans

743
00:39:56,600 --> 00:40:00,520
Speaker 1: to meet up again the following night, MEANWHI. While the

744
00:40:00,760 --> 00:40:04,400
Speaker 1: Jets are waiting for the Sharks to show up for

745
00:40:04,960 --> 00:40:09,400
Speaker 1: this negotiation, they're hanging out at this little store owned

746
00:40:09,920 --> 00:40:14,040
Speaker 1: by a guy named Doc. There are also a few

747
00:40:14,160 --> 00:40:17,120
Speaker 1: women there, like the women who pile around with the.

748
00:40:17,239 --> 00:40:20,000
Speaker 2: Jets, the groupies kind of right.

749
00:40:20,960 --> 00:40:26,640
Speaker 1: We've got Graciela Velma and a character named Anybody's who

750
00:40:27,000 --> 00:40:31,960
Speaker 1: we will talk about, and we see the various men

751
00:40:32,400 --> 00:40:38,360
Speaker 1: be sexists toward these young women. Then that cop officer

752
00:40:38,480 --> 00:40:42,759
Speaker 1: Krupke shows up again and hassles the Jets, so they

753
00:40:42,880 --> 00:40:48,440
Speaker 1: sing a song about him and about how society perceives

754
00:40:48,560 --> 00:40:53,640
Speaker 1: them as delinquents. Then the Sharks finally show up and

755
00:40:53,920 --> 00:40:58,560
Speaker 1: they agree to do a fight tomorrow after dark under

756
00:40:58,600 --> 00:41:02,520
Speaker 1: the Highway, where the best fighter from the Jets and

757
00:41:02,600 --> 00:41:08,640
Speaker 1: the Sharks will go against each other. It's Bernardo versus Ice,

758
00:41:09,000 --> 00:41:12,799
Speaker 1: but Bernardo was hoping to fight Tony since he's been

759
00:41:13,480 --> 00:41:15,640
Speaker 1: noodling with his sister Maria.

760
00:41:15,560 --> 00:41:18,640
Speaker 4: And objectively would be pretty easy to be in the flight.

761
00:41:19,000 --> 00:41:24,200
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, he's got a very punishable face.

762
00:41:24,560 --> 00:41:26,920
Speaker 4: He does. He does. You're like, yeah, of course you

763
00:41:27,000 --> 00:41:27,799
Speaker 4: want to beat this guy.

764
00:41:28,239 --> 00:41:28,439
Speaker 3: Yeah.

765
00:41:29,800 --> 00:41:35,320
Speaker 1: Then Lieutenant Shrank or whatever shows up, wanting to know

766
00:41:35,440 --> 00:41:38,160
Speaker 1: the details of the fight, but once again they all

767
00:41:38,320 --> 00:41:42,000
Speaker 1: refuse to talk. They do not cooperate with the cops.

768
00:41:43,160 --> 00:41:45,799
Speaker 1: Then we have the intermission cut to the next day.

769
00:41:46,160 --> 00:41:49,800
Speaker 1: Maria is with her friends. She sings, I feel pretty,

770
00:41:50,480 --> 00:41:54,719
Speaker 1: so pretty, and then she finds out from Anita that

771
00:41:55,000 --> 00:41:58,200
Speaker 1: there's a big rumble that night between the Sharks and

772
00:41:58,239 --> 00:42:00,919
Speaker 1: the Jets. So when Tony up a little bit later,

773
00:42:01,239 --> 00:42:04,719
Speaker 1: Maria asks him to go and stop it, so he

774
00:42:05,120 --> 00:42:08,880
Speaker 1: heads out, but not before they sing what I'm Sorry

775
00:42:09,440 --> 00:42:11,760
Speaker 1: I think is a very boring song.

776
00:42:12,080 --> 00:42:15,399
Speaker 2: Yes, okay, I actually really like this song. I think

777
00:42:15,440 --> 00:42:17,960
Speaker 2: it's like really cute and fun and funny that they're like,

778
00:42:18,040 --> 00:42:19,760
Speaker 2: oh my god, like look at our little wedding.

779
00:42:20,400 --> 00:42:22,439
Speaker 4: I love them. I love how that scene looks.

780
00:42:22,719 --> 00:42:26,040
Speaker 2: Yes, cute. I think it adds levity to this story

781
00:42:26,200 --> 00:42:29,520
Speaker 2: that like is not what Steven Spoberg wanted to do.

782
00:42:29,840 --> 00:42:32,959
Speaker 2: And then re like he cuts the song completely. Yeah,

783
00:42:33,040 --> 00:42:35,200
Speaker 2: and I was kind of sad that he cut this

784
00:42:35,280 --> 00:42:38,279
Speaker 2: song because it did just like make the movie like

785
00:42:38,440 --> 00:42:41,799
Speaker 2: very dark in the new remake versus this one kind

786
00:42:41,840 --> 00:42:44,400
Speaker 2: of has that old Hollywood like comedy too, because like

787
00:42:44,440 --> 00:42:47,400
Speaker 2: all the Broadway Hollywood movies were kind of like this

788
00:42:47,560 --> 00:42:50,239
Speaker 2: like sea song, like dark but like comedic tone, and

789
00:42:50,360 --> 00:42:52,719
Speaker 2: I liked that, but yeah, they get rid of it

790
00:42:52,840 --> 00:42:54,200
Speaker 2: in the new one, and I was sad.

791
00:42:54,719 --> 00:42:57,320
Speaker 4: I like it. I like, I mean, I like this.

792
00:42:57,520 --> 00:43:00,480
Speaker 4: I don't like the song, but I do like this sequence,

793
00:43:00,560 --> 00:43:04,480
Speaker 4: especially because the actors do not look as young as

794
00:43:04,520 --> 00:43:07,200
Speaker 4: they're supposed to be and it is kind of nice

795
00:43:07,239 --> 00:43:09,440
Speaker 4: to I don't know, like following like the same with

796
00:43:09,560 --> 00:43:13,600
Speaker 4: like the romantic thing. It's like they're so desperate to

797
00:43:13,640 --> 00:43:17,600
Speaker 4: be with each other that they like stage a cutie

798
00:43:17,640 --> 00:43:19,799
Speaker 4: pile little wedding with I don't know, I think it's

799
00:43:20,080 --> 00:43:21,200
Speaker 4: I think it's a sweet yeah.

800
00:43:21,239 --> 00:43:24,279
Speaker 2: Like I think this moment in the movie worked for

801
00:43:24,400 --> 00:43:28,359
Speaker 2: me in general because it kind of a showed their

802
00:43:28,400 --> 00:43:30,560
Speaker 2: age of like they're young, they're in love, Like we're

803
00:43:30,600 --> 00:43:34,600
Speaker 2: showing that they're like just naive young people, and it

804
00:43:34,760 --> 00:43:37,120
Speaker 2: kind of like shows what it means to be like

805
00:43:37,239 --> 00:43:39,880
Speaker 2: newly in love that like giddy puppy love feeling. And

806
00:43:40,000 --> 00:43:41,680
Speaker 2: I hate that they got rid of that in the

807
00:43:41,760 --> 00:43:44,800
Speaker 2: New one because I do think the tone being so

808
00:43:45,040 --> 00:43:46,880
Speaker 2: serious in the New one where it's like they're like

809
00:43:47,000 --> 00:43:51,520
Speaker 2: doing this like instead this very declarative like love scene

810
00:43:51,719 --> 00:43:53,520
Speaker 2: in the New one that I was like, we haven't

811
00:43:53,560 --> 00:43:55,360
Speaker 2: worked up to that, Like it takes me out of

812
00:43:55,400 --> 00:43:57,040
Speaker 2: be like Kela was saying, where I'm like, we're a

813
00:43:57,160 --> 00:44:00,479
Speaker 2: day in you guys have already agreed to flee some together,

814
00:44:00,960 --> 00:44:02,719
Speaker 2: and now you guys are like having this serious talk

815
00:44:02,719 --> 00:44:05,600
Speaker 2: where she's like like you need to stop this fight

816
00:44:05,719 --> 00:44:07,320
Speaker 2: and then he's like I want to marry you and

817
00:44:07,360 --> 00:44:09,560
Speaker 2: you're like huh, like y'all don't know each other.

818
00:44:10,239 --> 00:44:10,799
Speaker 4: Yere okay.

819
00:44:11,200 --> 00:44:13,040
Speaker 2: In this version, it's like, oh, this is silly. It's

820
00:44:13,080 --> 00:44:15,479
Speaker 2: supposed to be, Like it's not serious. They are getting

821
00:44:15,480 --> 00:44:16,600
Speaker 2: to know each other, having fun.

822
00:44:17,000 --> 00:44:19,480
Speaker 4: I also thought like it was I wonder what you

823
00:44:19,480 --> 00:44:22,080
Speaker 4: even think about this? Like on this watch in particular,

824
00:44:22,239 --> 00:44:25,600
Speaker 4: it felt like part of what makes that scene like

825
00:44:25,840 --> 00:44:30,600
Speaker 4: sweet and clearly ominous. Yes, is, and this is obviously

826
00:44:30,719 --> 00:44:34,000
Speaker 4: severely undercut by the fact that Natalie Wood is white.

827
00:44:34,920 --> 00:44:38,480
Speaker 4: But they're like acting out this play situation of their

828
00:44:38,520 --> 00:44:40,680
Speaker 4: families accepting each other because they know that that would

829
00:44:40,719 --> 00:44:43,320
Speaker 4: never happen in real life. Yes, And like, I don't know,

830
00:44:43,440 --> 00:44:46,560
Speaker 4: I think it's like it's a weirdly kind of lighthearted

831
00:44:46,640 --> 00:44:48,720
Speaker 4: way of addressing that in the movie.

832
00:44:49,040 --> 00:44:49,440
Speaker 2: I agree.

833
00:44:49,600 --> 00:44:53,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I liked the part where they're role playing

834
00:44:53,760 --> 00:44:55,960
Speaker 1: and like the mannekins are there in the various like

835
00:44:56,400 --> 00:44:59,600
Speaker 1: dresses and tuxedos and all the stuff that happens before

836
00:44:59,640 --> 00:45:03,080
Speaker 1: the song charming nice the song itself.

837
00:45:02,800 --> 00:45:03,839
Speaker 4: Okay, the song's kind of mid.

838
00:45:04,120 --> 00:45:05,760
Speaker 2: I guess you're right. I don't like the song asself.

839
00:45:05,800 --> 00:45:06,720
Speaker 2: I just like this scene.

840
00:45:07,400 --> 00:45:11,040
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yeah, scene, good song bad Yeah.

841
00:45:12,719 --> 00:45:18,160
Speaker 1: Okay. So that happens. Then the two groups make their

842
00:45:18,200 --> 00:45:21,320
Speaker 1: way to the rumble spot and they're about to start fighting.

843
00:45:21,960 --> 00:45:24,440
Speaker 1: Tony shows up to try to stop it, but he

844
00:45:24,680 --> 00:45:27,920
Speaker 1: kind of gets roped into the fight again. Bernardo has

845
00:45:27,960 --> 00:45:33,960
Speaker 1: it out for Tony, so they're scuffling. Things escalate, knives

846
00:45:34,160 --> 00:45:38,920
Speaker 1: are drawn. There is a fight dance not to be

847
00:45:39,400 --> 00:45:45,400
Speaker 1: confused with a dance fight, where Bernardo stabs Riff and

848
00:45:45,520 --> 00:45:51,680
Speaker 1: then Tony retaliates and stabs Bernardo. She know goes to

849
00:45:51,840 --> 00:45:55,200
Speaker 1: Maria to tell her that her new boyfriend just killed

850
00:45:55,280 --> 00:45:57,960
Speaker 1: her brother. So she is devastated.

851
00:45:58,320 --> 00:46:01,880
Speaker 2: Okay, but we have to note here that Gino tells

852
00:46:02,480 --> 00:46:07,640
Speaker 2: Maria because Maria is too focused on like Tony. After

853
00:46:07,719 --> 00:46:10,680
Speaker 2: he goes, your boyfriend killed your brother, She's like, but

854
00:46:10,760 --> 00:46:14,439
Speaker 2: it's Tony, okay, and she knows, Like what the fuck right, Belie,

855
00:46:14,680 --> 00:46:17,319
Speaker 2: because you're like, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. This man you've

856
00:46:17,360 --> 00:46:19,839
Speaker 2: known for forty eight hours murdered your brother. And you're

857
00:46:19,880 --> 00:46:21,359
Speaker 2: still like, but I'm gonna run.

858
00:46:21,239 --> 00:46:22,040
Speaker 4: Away with that Tony?

859
00:46:22,360 --> 00:46:22,840
Speaker 2: Is he okay?

860
00:46:23,200 --> 00:46:23,439
Speaker 1: Yeah?

861
00:46:23,719 --> 00:46:24,440
Speaker 3: I for me.

862
00:46:24,760 --> 00:46:26,400
Speaker 4: And it's like I know that she's supposed to be

863
00:46:26,520 --> 00:46:29,279
Speaker 4: very young and naive, but like, Maria's behavior is impossible

864
00:46:29,320 --> 00:46:34,600
Speaker 4: to rationalize, impossible starting here, I mean, especially the way

865
00:46:34,600 --> 00:46:37,640
Speaker 4: that she treats Anita, and like the gravity of what

866
00:46:37,760 --> 00:46:39,480
Speaker 4: she asks from Anita.

867
00:46:39,440 --> 00:46:41,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, is just like I think they handle it better

868
00:46:42,000 --> 00:46:44,200
Speaker 2: in the new version, but still it's just like in

869
00:46:44,360 --> 00:46:46,719
Speaker 2: this one, you're like, huh.

870
00:46:47,000 --> 00:46:50,319
Speaker 4: Absurd, Like you get actively frustrated with her and Tony.

871
00:46:50,480 --> 00:46:53,319
Speaker 4: Like by the end of this movie a movie I enjoy,

872
00:46:53,640 --> 00:46:56,040
Speaker 4: I'm not rooting for them. I'm just not.

873
00:46:56,239 --> 00:46:58,920
Speaker 2: No, you're like, good riddens, everyone's dead, good ridden?

874
00:46:59,120 --> 00:47:02,160
Speaker 4: How fucking title this? Tony to'd be like, oh, the

875
00:47:02,320 --> 00:47:04,920
Speaker 4: things happen and she's like, okay, makes sense, Like.

876
00:47:05,280 --> 00:47:06,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, what, no problem.

877
00:47:06,960 --> 00:47:08,600
Speaker 4: It's yeah infuriating.

878
00:47:08,960 --> 00:47:12,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, because Tony shows up to say that he needs

879
00:47:12,719 --> 00:47:16,240
Speaker 1: her forgiveness, and he intends to go to the cops

880
00:47:16,280 --> 00:47:19,440
Speaker 1: to turn himself in, and she's like, no, don't do that.

881
00:47:19,640 --> 00:47:20,080
Speaker 4: I love you.

882
00:47:20,320 --> 00:47:23,960
Speaker 1: Let's run away together. So they form a plan to flee.

883
00:47:25,120 --> 00:47:28,719
Speaker 1: Cut to the Jets who are dealing with the aftermath

884
00:47:29,000 --> 00:47:32,880
Speaker 1: of Riff's death. They're sad, they're angry. They sing a

885
00:47:32,960 --> 00:47:36,879
Speaker 1: song about how they have to be cool and keep

886
00:47:37,080 --> 00:47:38,080
Speaker 1: a level head.

887
00:47:38,680 --> 00:47:41,920
Speaker 4: This is I'm interested to talk about this because the

888
00:47:42,080 --> 00:47:47,520
Speaker 4: dancing is funny. To be like, it does feel like

889
00:47:48,160 --> 00:47:53,480
Speaker 4: a very like a dance sequence interpreting white masculine repression

890
00:47:53,680 --> 00:47:56,800
Speaker 4: question mark something like that. I think I like it,

891
00:47:57,280 --> 00:47:58,759
Speaker 4: but it's weird. It's very long.

892
00:47:59,200 --> 00:48:01,320
Speaker 2: It's very long. I think it's one of the longest

893
00:48:01,400 --> 00:48:02,840
Speaker 2: numbers that I felt like kind of was.

894
00:48:02,840 --> 00:48:04,200
Speaker 4: Like like I get it.

895
00:48:04,280 --> 00:48:05,760
Speaker 2: I was like, okay, move it along.

896
00:48:06,360 --> 00:48:06,560
Speaker 4: Yeah.

897
00:48:06,680 --> 00:48:06,919
Speaker 2: Yeah.

898
00:48:07,120 --> 00:48:10,840
Speaker 1: Well, because there's also the scene right before this. I

899
00:48:10,960 --> 00:48:12,080
Speaker 1: think the character's name is.

900
00:48:12,320 --> 00:48:15,879
Speaker 4: Baby John or something like the comic book kid.

901
00:48:16,520 --> 00:48:16,719
Speaker 3: Yeah.

902
00:48:16,880 --> 00:48:21,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then another character approaches him. Baby John has

903
00:48:21,120 --> 00:48:23,600
Speaker 1: been crying, but he like brushes it off.

904
00:48:23,600 --> 00:48:25,479
Speaker 2: Like, no, gotta be tough.

905
00:48:25,560 --> 00:48:28,000
Speaker 1: I don't want the guys to see me like this. Yeah,

906
00:48:28,640 --> 00:48:31,640
Speaker 1: so he like regains his composure and then they meet

907
00:48:31,719 --> 00:48:33,719
Speaker 1: up with the rest of the jets. But yeah, I

908
00:48:33,719 --> 00:48:37,360
Speaker 1: think there's very much a like we have to suppress

909
00:48:37,680 --> 00:48:39,480
Speaker 1: our emotions and be.

910
00:48:39,880 --> 00:48:43,399
Speaker 4: Cool, right, But also I feel like we don't see

911
00:48:43,640 --> 00:48:48,400
Speaker 4: the sharks go through a similar process, which I'm I

912
00:48:48,480 --> 00:48:50,800
Speaker 4: don't know I'm interested to talk about that because I

913
00:48:51,160 --> 00:48:53,320
Speaker 4: don't know. Maybe I'm overthinking it, but I was like,

914
00:48:53,400 --> 00:48:55,239
Speaker 4: be cool is first of all, I would rather have

915
00:48:55,520 --> 00:48:58,280
Speaker 4: cut back to see how the sharks are processing Bernardo's

916
00:48:58,280 --> 00:48:59,960
Speaker 4: death because we don't really get to see that outside

917
00:49:00,200 --> 00:49:03,920
Speaker 4: Maria and Anita no, which doesn't make any sense. But

918
00:49:04,040 --> 00:49:06,080
Speaker 4: it also but like in that context, I'm like, I

919
00:49:06,200 --> 00:49:08,759
Speaker 4: wonder if be cool is like part of why they

920
00:49:08,800 --> 00:49:10,640
Speaker 4: have to be cool is because they have to preserve

921
00:49:10,719 --> 00:49:14,960
Speaker 4: this very racially informed relationship they have with the cops,

922
00:49:15,160 --> 00:49:18,439
Speaker 4: because the cops yes literally say to them, we want

923
00:49:18,520 --> 00:49:20,719
Speaker 4: to believe you. And so it's like, if they can

924
00:49:20,840 --> 00:49:25,120
Speaker 4: pull off, you know, appearing credible to the cops, it

925
00:49:25,200 --> 00:49:26,880
Speaker 4: won't be that hard for them. They just have to

926
00:49:27,000 --> 00:49:29,000
Speaker 4: like sort of keep it together. And like, I don't know,

927
00:49:29,120 --> 00:49:33,000
Speaker 4: it just like added an interesting, it's still too long,

928
00:49:33,160 --> 00:49:35,640
Speaker 4: but I don't know. Yeah.

929
00:49:35,760 --> 00:49:35,800
Speaker 3: No.

930
00:49:37,880 --> 00:49:42,320
Speaker 1: So then that character named Anybody's shows up saying that

931
00:49:42,880 --> 00:49:46,760
Speaker 1: Chino has a gun and he's planning to kill Tony.

932
00:49:47,560 --> 00:49:49,920
Speaker 1: So the Jets realize they have to find Tony and

933
00:49:50,040 --> 00:49:54,520
Speaker 1: keep him safe. Tony, who is still with Maria, he

934
00:49:54,960 --> 00:49:57,839
Speaker 1: goes off to borrow some money so that they can flee.

935
00:49:59,000 --> 00:50:04,120
Speaker 1: They arrange for Maria to meet up with him at

936
00:50:04,360 --> 00:50:08,880
Speaker 1: Doc's store. Anita comes in finds out that Maria is

937
00:50:09,000 --> 00:50:13,880
Speaker 1: still with Tony even after he killed Bernardo. So Anita

938
00:50:14,200 --> 00:50:15,440
Speaker 1: is like, you'll never believe it.

939
00:50:15,680 --> 00:50:16,920
Speaker 4: She's upset, like.

940
00:50:17,200 --> 00:50:19,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, She's like, what the fuck he killed my boyfriend.

941
00:50:20,160 --> 00:50:23,359
Speaker 1: He's a murderer brother, You're a inerader.

942
00:50:24,040 --> 00:50:27,400
Speaker 4: So baffling to me because it's like Maria and Bernardo

943
00:50:27,480 --> 00:50:31,360
Speaker 4: had a complicated relationship. He was over exerting control over her.

944
00:50:31,600 --> 00:50:34,040
Speaker 4: But they I wouldn't say they had a bad relationship,

945
00:50:34,280 --> 00:50:35,600
Speaker 4: Like it was very affectionate.

946
00:50:35,680 --> 00:50:38,719
Speaker 2: And it's like contextually, it's like she just immigrated here

947
00:50:38,760 --> 00:50:41,279
Speaker 2: from Puerto Rico. So he's being very protective of her

948
00:50:41,360 --> 00:50:45,239
Speaker 2: because he's like, you are my responsibility now, like I

949
00:50:45,800 --> 00:50:48,400
Speaker 2: have to make sure you're safe in this new foreign

950
00:50:48,480 --> 00:50:51,160
Speaker 2: land that we are all trying to navigate. You don't

951
00:50:51,160 --> 00:50:52,040
Speaker 2: speak very good English.

952
00:50:52,080 --> 00:50:52,200
Speaker 1: You know.

953
00:50:52,320 --> 00:50:55,600
Speaker 2: In theory, obviously Nally Wood is doing it so like whatever,

954
00:50:56,000 --> 00:50:59,279
Speaker 2: But if we're talking realistically, she had just gotten off

955
00:50:59,280 --> 00:51:01,440
Speaker 2: the boat from Port ric Go, she wouldn't speak very

956
00:51:01,480 --> 00:51:04,719
Speaker 2: much English, and she's a child, so it's like, of course,

957
00:51:04,960 --> 00:51:07,680
Speaker 2: young there is tension, but it's like not any worse

958
00:51:07,760 --> 00:51:10,040
Speaker 2: tension than like a parent with a child, Like that

959
00:51:10,280 --> 00:51:11,240
Speaker 2: is normal tension.

960
00:51:11,960 --> 00:51:14,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, her, I don't know, I mean, I it wasn't abusive.

961
00:51:14,440 --> 00:51:17,600
Speaker 2: He wasn't, you know, hitting her, hurting her, harming her,

962
00:51:17,880 --> 00:51:19,319
Speaker 2: you know, No, he was just.

963
00:51:19,320 --> 00:51:22,320
Speaker 4: Being like I mean again, it's like this, I understand

964
00:51:22,360 --> 00:51:25,640
Speaker 4: that teenagers are upset when like someone exerts control over them,

965
00:51:25,719 --> 00:51:28,359
Speaker 4: and fair enough, but it's like not upset to their

966
00:51:28,640 --> 00:51:31,759
Speaker 4: point that you would not react to their death untimely

967
00:51:32,000 --> 00:51:34,880
Speaker 4: murder by your guy you're.

968
00:51:34,880 --> 00:51:38,680
Speaker 2: Dating, because it was like when he he murdered him

969
00:51:38,760 --> 00:51:41,000
Speaker 2: like on purpose, Like it wasn't like, oh my god,

970
00:51:41,040 --> 00:51:43,120
Speaker 2: there was all these knives and I actually knifed him.

971
00:51:43,160 --> 00:51:47,560
Speaker 2: It was like he chose his white brethren over his

972
00:51:47,719 --> 00:51:49,560
Speaker 2: love for you, to be honest, because he wouldn't have

973
00:51:49,920 --> 00:51:51,040
Speaker 2: chose your boyfriend.

974
00:51:51,200 --> 00:51:54,200
Speaker 4: Why are you choosing him? Yes, Like it doesn't make

975
00:51:54,239 --> 00:51:58,239
Speaker 4: any sense. He chose the other person. I uh, it's so.

976
00:51:58,520 --> 00:52:00,440
Speaker 4: I mean I think that that the probably a lot

977
00:52:00,480 --> 00:52:04,520
Speaker 4: of that is because of like how randomly like this.

978
00:52:04,680 --> 00:52:06,920
Speaker 4: I feel like this movie is very committed to mapping

979
00:52:07,040 --> 00:52:09,680
Speaker 4: exactly onto Romeo and Juliet at moments where it's like

980
00:52:09,920 --> 00:52:14,320
Speaker 4: you probably should have considered the relationships of the characters

981
00:52:14,440 --> 00:52:17,400
Speaker 4: and their culture and their predicament instead of just being like, well,

982
00:52:17,520 --> 00:52:20,960
Speaker 4: Romeo kills tibblets, so yeah whatever, Like you're like, well,

983
00:52:21,040 --> 00:52:24,760
Speaker 4: people are famously bumped by that, so maybe do something.

984
00:52:24,960 --> 00:52:25,279
Speaker 4: I don't know.

985
00:52:26,520 --> 00:52:32,200
Speaker 1: Yes, So Anita is calling out Maria for being a trader.

986
00:52:33,040 --> 00:52:37,040
Speaker 1: But Maria is like, but I love Tony and love

987
00:52:37,600 --> 00:52:43,880
Speaker 1: is beautiful, fine that I love him. Then Lieutenant Shrink

988
00:52:44,280 --> 00:52:48,080
Speaker 1: shows up to question Maria about Bernardo's death, and so

989
00:52:48,680 --> 00:52:51,720
Speaker 1: since Maria can't leave right away to meet up with Tony,

990
00:52:52,120 --> 00:52:56,160
Speaker 1: she sends Anita to Doc's store to tell Tony that

991
00:52:56,440 --> 00:52:58,719
Speaker 1: I think like Maria will just like come as soon

992
00:52:58,760 --> 00:52:59,200
Speaker 1: as she can.

993
00:53:00,239 --> 00:53:02,879
Speaker 4: That is like the I mean, Rita. Marina is has

994
00:53:03,040 --> 00:53:07,040
Speaker 4: such incredible range in this movie, and like that even

995
00:53:07,080 --> 00:53:10,719
Speaker 4: though the Maria's behavior feels so irrational, I feel like

996
00:53:11,440 --> 00:53:15,480
Speaker 4: how Anita reacts in that moment when Maria asks her

997
00:53:15,520 --> 00:53:19,239
Speaker 4: to do something so impossible and so like, you know,

998
00:53:19,640 --> 00:53:23,719
Speaker 4: insensitive to what Anita is going through, but you can

999
00:53:23,840 --> 00:53:26,359
Speaker 4: just tell, like you know why Anita's doing it because

1000
00:53:26,400 --> 00:53:28,600
Speaker 4: she doesn't want to lose another person, and it's just

1001
00:53:28,680 --> 00:53:30,520
Speaker 4: like it's heartbreaking. Yeah.

1002
00:53:30,840 --> 00:53:38,040
Speaker 1: Absolutely, So Anita shows up at the store, the Jets

1003
00:53:38,600 --> 00:53:43,920
Speaker 1: harass and assault her until Doc comes in and intervenes,

1004
00:53:45,239 --> 00:53:48,640
Speaker 1: and because of what she just experienced, she's like, fuck

1005
00:53:48,680 --> 00:53:50,960
Speaker 1: you guys, you're monsters, and then she tells a.

1006
00:53:51,000 --> 00:53:54,480
Speaker 4: Lot so fuck Maria, yeah for putting me in this position,

1007
00:53:54,880 --> 00:53:55,840
Speaker 4: and I also think in a.

1008
00:53:55,840 --> 00:53:58,239
Speaker 2: Way she almost is also trying to protect Maria and

1009
00:53:58,320 --> 00:53:59,879
Speaker 2: be like, I'm not gonna let you be a part

1010
00:53:59,920 --> 00:54:03,120
Speaker 2: of this whatever this is. Like, if they were so

1011
00:54:03,320 --> 00:54:05,880
Speaker 2: quick to do this to me, you think they're gonna

1012
00:54:06,560 --> 00:54:10,080
Speaker 2: protect you just because you're with Tony? Like absolutely, Yeah.

1013
00:54:10,760 --> 00:54:15,160
Speaker 1: So she tells a lie to try to keep everyone safe,

1014
00:54:15,200 --> 00:54:17,520
Speaker 1: her loved ones safe, and to try to kind of

1015
00:54:17,560 --> 00:54:20,759
Speaker 1: put an end to this whole thing. Unfortunately, it backfires,

1016
00:54:20,800 --> 00:54:25,840
Speaker 1: but she tells the Jets to tell Tony that Chino

1017
00:54:26,000 --> 00:54:30,440
Speaker 1: found out about Tony and Maria, and so Chino killed Maria.

1018
00:54:31,280 --> 00:54:36,160
Speaker 1: Doc relays that information to Tony, who is devastated. So

1019
00:54:36,280 --> 00:54:40,360
Speaker 1: he goes out into the street. He's flailing around, but

1020
00:54:40,480 --> 00:54:45,600
Speaker 1: then Maria she's able to come outside, so she sees

1021
00:54:45,680 --> 00:54:48,280
Speaker 1: him and they're like running toward each other, but before

1022
00:54:48,320 --> 00:54:54,560
Speaker 1: they can embrace, Chino shows up and shoots Tony. Maria is,

1023
00:54:54,880 --> 00:54:58,880
Speaker 1: of course distraught. Tony dies in her arms. The Jets

1024
00:54:58,920 --> 00:55:02,520
Speaker 1: and the Sharks have all gathered around, and Maria calls

1025
00:55:02,640 --> 00:55:07,640
Speaker 1: them out for their needless hate and violence. She threatens

1026
00:55:07,719 --> 00:55:11,360
Speaker 1: to kill them all and herself, but then the cops

1027
00:55:11,560 --> 00:55:15,360
Speaker 1: show up and the movie ends with the Jets and

1028
00:55:15,360 --> 00:55:20,920
Speaker 1: the Sharks seemingly putting aside their differences and helping to

1029
00:55:21,200 --> 00:55:24,319
Speaker 1: carry away Tony's body together.

1030
00:55:24,480 --> 00:55:26,680
Speaker 2: Like at the end of the day, Acaby.

1031
00:55:26,239 --> 00:55:29,760
Speaker 4: Right, right, that is their single unifying issue.

1032
00:55:31,120 --> 00:55:33,160
Speaker 1: So that's the movie. Let's take another quick break and

1033
00:55:33,280 --> 00:55:47,279
Speaker 1: we'll come back to discuss. And we're back back.

1034
00:55:48,120 --> 00:55:50,440
Speaker 4: Becca. We know you've done a ton of research. Is

1035
00:55:50,480 --> 00:55:54,160
Speaker 4: there anywhere where you are really wanting to start here?

1036
00:55:54,680 --> 00:55:59,120
Speaker 2: I do want to give some like nineteen fifties context

1037
00:55:59,560 --> 00:56:03,680
Speaker 2: that I think this version, specifically the nineteen sixty one

1038
00:56:03,800 --> 00:56:07,640
Speaker 2: version tries to like sprinkle because it's obviously kind of

1039
00:56:07,680 --> 00:56:10,279
Speaker 2: in real time, but I think the two thousand and

1040
00:56:10,360 --> 00:56:13,680
Speaker 2: one or twenty twenty one version rectifies a lot of

1041
00:56:13,719 --> 00:56:16,160
Speaker 2: that like lack of context and kind of just in

1042
00:56:16,239 --> 00:56:19,319
Speaker 2: conversation of the lack of real representation of Puerto Ricans.

1043
00:56:19,360 --> 00:56:22,320
Speaker 2: It's like using Puerto Ricans as this like platform to

1044
00:56:22,400 --> 00:56:26,920
Speaker 2: have this story versus like actually thinking about them in

1045
00:56:27,040 --> 00:56:30,120
Speaker 2: the context of this time. But in the nineteen fifties,

1046
00:56:30,160 --> 00:56:33,480
Speaker 2: you're having the Puerto Rican Great Migration to New York City,

1047
00:56:33,880 --> 00:56:38,560
Speaker 2: where it's a rapid population growth, intense discrimination, and an

1048
00:56:38,600 --> 00:56:43,960
Speaker 2: emergence of the new Eurekan identity, thank you Wikipedia, centered

1049
00:56:44,000 --> 00:56:47,160
Speaker 2: in neighborhoods like East Harlem, South Bronx, and West Side,

1050
00:56:47,160 --> 00:56:50,400
Speaker 2: which is San Juan Hill, which is where this story begins.

1051
00:56:50,520 --> 00:56:54,280
Speaker 2: But San Juan Hill is actually a very particular neighborhood.

1052
00:56:54,320 --> 00:56:59,080
Speaker 2: It was an original slum of Puerto Ricans and black Caribbeans.

1053
00:56:59,560 --> 00:57:03,719
Speaker 2: And then in this time that the movie's happening, which

1054
00:57:03,760 --> 00:57:06,680
Speaker 2: they portray better in the new version, it's being demolished

1055
00:57:06,719 --> 00:57:08,879
Speaker 2: for the Lincoln Center. The Lincoln Center to this day

1056
00:57:09,520 --> 00:57:11,640
Speaker 2: sits on top of black and brown bodies. Like to

1057
00:57:11,760 --> 00:57:15,640
Speaker 2: be as explicit as possible, they killed lots of people

1058
00:57:15,920 --> 00:57:19,080
Speaker 2: to have that because they try to migrate them uptown.

1059
00:57:19,160 --> 00:57:21,840
Speaker 2: That's how you ended up with Puerto Ricans in Harlem,

1060
00:57:22,040 --> 00:57:26,720
Speaker 2: the Bronx, Washington Heights. All of that is because basically

1061
00:57:26,960 --> 00:57:30,240
Speaker 2: the rich people were like, we want this because it's

1062
00:57:30,280 --> 00:57:32,840
Speaker 2: by the park. This has to be for the whites now,

1063
00:57:33,000 --> 00:57:36,160
Speaker 2: and so they like literally bulldoze over this whole slum

1064
00:57:36,280 --> 00:57:39,000
Speaker 2: of Puerto Ricans and try to push them out. And

1065
00:57:39,200 --> 00:57:41,080
Speaker 2: I think in the new version they ad trust that

1066
00:57:41,680 --> 00:57:45,800
Speaker 2: a lot more of like this actual dialogue in the

1067
00:57:45,920 --> 00:57:48,840
Speaker 2: movie about like why are the people migrating and like

1068
00:57:49,080 --> 00:57:54,000
Speaker 2: the opportunities that the realtors promised them that were not true.

1069
00:57:54,080 --> 00:57:56,920
Speaker 2: They got to these housings and the Bronx and Washington

1070
00:57:57,000 --> 00:57:59,720
Speaker 2: hids and they were filled with rats and cockroaches and

1071
00:57:59,760 --> 00:58:02,680
Speaker 2: they were built and they literally like evicted these people

1072
00:58:02,720 --> 00:58:04,600
Speaker 2: saying no, we have housing for you up there, like

1073
00:58:04,760 --> 00:58:07,480
Speaker 2: just pack your stuff today and go and there will

1074
00:58:07,520 --> 00:58:09,360
Speaker 2: be a house for you. And then there wasn't. So

1075
00:58:09,680 --> 00:58:12,240
Speaker 2: it was just like this really dark time to be

1076
00:58:12,880 --> 00:58:16,680
Speaker 2: Puerto Rican. And obviously they don't really highlight that in

1077
00:58:16,800 --> 00:58:19,280
Speaker 2: the movie, and I don't think it gives enough context

1078
00:58:19,320 --> 00:58:23,120
Speaker 2: as to why there's such racial tension between these two communities.

1079
00:58:23,280 --> 00:58:25,360
Speaker 2: And I mean, of course besides the factor they're brown

1080
00:58:25,840 --> 00:58:28,120
Speaker 2: and white, but like there is a lot of like

1081
00:58:28,360 --> 00:58:32,000
Speaker 2: real shit happening like in real time at this time

1082
00:58:32,240 --> 00:58:33,200
Speaker 2: for Puerto Ricans.

1083
00:58:34,040 --> 00:58:38,240
Speaker 1: Can I follow that up with context about the conception

1084
00:58:38,360 --> 00:58:39,960
Speaker 1: of the stage musical, because I.

1085
00:58:40,040 --> 00:58:42,440
Speaker 4: Was going to say, because it's like I feel like

1086
00:58:42,480 --> 00:58:45,240
Speaker 4: the reason it's not there is because the writers and

1087
00:58:45,320 --> 00:58:48,960
Speaker 4: creators probably didn't even know and didn't have interest. No

1088
00:58:49,880 --> 00:58:54,040
Speaker 4: Puerto Rican culture is kind of randomly selected for this.

1089
00:58:54,640 --> 00:59:00,800
Speaker 1: Yes, Yeah, so here's what happened there. So Roame Robbins

1090
00:59:01,240 --> 00:59:06,840
Speaker 1: conceived of this idea for the original Broadway musical that

1091
00:59:07,080 --> 00:59:09,520
Speaker 1: debuted in nineteen fifty seven.

1092
00:59:09,640 --> 00:59:12,040
Speaker 4: From an idea from Montgomery Cliff, which is just an

1093
00:59:12,080 --> 00:59:15,600
Speaker 4: interesting piece of queer history. They were like on vacation together.

1094
00:59:15,720 --> 00:59:17,680
Speaker 4: Montgomery Cliff is like, I have a little idea. This

1095
00:59:17,960 --> 00:59:19,240
Speaker 4: like came out of Fire Island.

1096
00:59:22,760 --> 00:59:27,720
Speaker 1: But the idea originated in nineteen forty nine, where Jerome

1097
00:59:27,800 --> 00:59:31,400
Speaker 1: Robbins was like, Okay, what if I tell a story

1098
00:59:31,560 --> 00:59:35,000
Speaker 1: about a Catholic family and a Jewish family living on

1099
00:59:35,120 --> 00:59:38,800
Speaker 1: the Lower east Side of Manhattan. So originally the story

1100
00:59:38,920 --> 00:59:43,360
Speaker 1: was called east Side Story, Yes, and it would center

1101
00:59:43,480 --> 00:59:47,600
Speaker 1: on the Catholics being anti Semitic to the Jewish characters.

1102
00:59:48,560 --> 00:59:51,120
Speaker 1: And based on my research, it seems like the Maria

1103
00:59:51,280 --> 00:59:54,800
Speaker 1: character would have originally been a Jewish girl who had

1104
00:59:54,920 --> 00:59:59,320
Speaker 1: survived the Holocaust and emigrated from Israel.

1105
01:00:00,080 --> 01:00:03,800
Speaker 4: And you're like, what do you mean? Yeah, literally he

1106
01:00:03,920 --> 01:00:04,960
Speaker 4: was less.

1107
01:00:07,120 --> 01:00:12,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, So you know, there's that. So Arthur Lorentz gets

1108
01:00:12,680 --> 01:00:16,800
Speaker 1: brought onto the project to write the book for this musical,

1109
01:00:17,400 --> 01:00:20,360
Speaker 1: and he finishes a draft and then everyone who was

1110
01:00:20,440 --> 01:00:24,800
Speaker 1: involved realized that this play had already been written basically,

1111
01:00:25,120 --> 01:00:28,640
Speaker 1: and that these same themes were explored in a play

1112
01:00:28,720 --> 01:00:30,840
Speaker 1: called Abby's Irish Rose.

1113
01:00:31,280 --> 01:00:33,440
Speaker 2: They're like, oh, man, we already did it.

1114
01:00:33,560 --> 01:00:38,040
Speaker 1: They're like, oh shucks. So Jerome Robbins drops out of

1115
01:00:38,120 --> 01:00:42,200
Speaker 1: the project. He Arthur Lwentz and Leonard Bernstein, who had

1116
01:00:42,200 --> 01:00:45,000
Speaker 1: also been brought on. They all go their separate ways

1117
01:00:45,800 --> 01:00:49,240
Speaker 1: for years. The project was shelved for like five years.

1118
01:00:50,040 --> 01:00:53,000
Speaker 1: Cut to nineteen fifty five. They come back together. They

1119
01:00:53,080 --> 01:00:56,160
Speaker 1: decide to work on the project again. Lorentz and Bernstein

1120
01:00:57,000 --> 01:01:01,040
Speaker 1: meet up in Hollywood in Beverly Hills. Wow, and they're like,

1121
01:01:02,000 --> 01:01:05,840
Speaker 1: what about all these juvenile street gangs and turf wars

1122
01:01:05,920 --> 01:01:08,160
Speaker 1: that we've been hearing about in the news, right.

1123
01:01:08,080 --> 01:01:11,000
Speaker 4: Which is like a very popular thematic. I think that

1124
01:01:11,120 --> 01:01:13,240
Speaker 4: that's like a part of the reason that Natalie Wood

1125
01:01:13,320 --> 01:01:15,960
Speaker 4: ends up in this part, because she appeared in a

1126
01:01:16,000 --> 01:01:19,960
Speaker 4: lot of these sort of juvenile, delinquent exploratory stories, which

1127
01:01:20,000 --> 01:01:23,480
Speaker 4: of course is like couched in a lot of bullshit. Yeah,

1128
01:01:24,080 --> 01:01:27,120
Speaker 4: but it was like such a popular theme in the fifties.

1129
01:01:27,400 --> 01:01:29,200
Speaker 2: It was such a popular theme. But also I think

1130
01:01:29,240 --> 01:01:31,920
Speaker 2: specifically as Kaelin was knowing this meeting was happening, in

1131
01:01:32,000 --> 01:01:35,360
Speaker 2: Hollywood at this time. Specifically, there were a lot of

1132
01:01:35,480 --> 01:01:39,480
Speaker 2: Chicano turf wars happening in La so they were like, well,

1133
01:01:39,480 --> 01:01:41,000
Speaker 2: what if we flip it, because they still wanted it

1134
01:01:41,000 --> 01:01:42,200
Speaker 2: to be in New York. So you're like, what if

1135
01:01:42,240 --> 01:01:45,560
Speaker 2: we there's those new Puerto Ricans coming in to New York, right,

1136
01:01:45,720 --> 01:01:47,960
Speaker 2: like what do we do that? And so I think

1137
01:01:48,040 --> 01:01:50,800
Speaker 2: that like literally was it like they were just like, well,

1138
01:01:50,960 --> 01:01:53,120
Speaker 2: we can't have we don't have Mexicans in New York,

1139
01:01:53,400 --> 01:01:55,800
Speaker 2: So what do we what do we do about that?

1140
01:01:56,560 --> 01:01:59,600
Speaker 2: So let's just we know those new Reakens are coming

1141
01:02:00,120 --> 01:02:01,080
Speaker 2: to get them in the mix.

1142
01:02:01,400 --> 01:02:02,920
Speaker 1: That is literally what happened.

1143
01:02:02,960 --> 01:02:05,400
Speaker 4: And that seems like the beginning and end of the.

1144
01:02:05,480 --> 01:02:09,120
Speaker 5: Conation of because the rest is just like stereotypes and

1145
01:02:09,200 --> 01:02:11,440
Speaker 5: they weren't like not wrong, like that San Juan Hill

1146
01:02:11,440 --> 01:02:12,200
Speaker 5: stuff was happening.

1147
01:02:12,280 --> 01:02:14,640
Speaker 2: There was a lot of like turf happening, I guess

1148
01:02:14,760 --> 01:02:17,600
Speaker 2: in a degree, but really it was just like people

1149
01:02:17,640 --> 01:02:20,280
Speaker 2: who were like already were marginalized and forced to come

1150
01:02:20,440 --> 01:02:24,120
Speaker 2: to America and then being displaced in their one home

1151
01:02:24,240 --> 01:02:26,720
Speaker 2: that they've known that they've been able to build since

1152
01:02:26,760 --> 01:02:29,560
Speaker 2: the thirties when the migration kind of started post World

1153
01:02:29,600 --> 01:02:32,680
Speaker 2: War One. There's a really great exhibit. The reason I

1154
01:02:32,800 --> 01:02:36,280
Speaker 2: know all this is because in New York at Centro

1155
01:02:36,440 --> 01:02:40,160
Speaker 2: Pire Hunter College, it's a really great Portrigan Studies program.

1156
01:02:40,200 --> 01:02:42,120
Speaker 2: It's probably like nationally known as like one of the

1157
01:02:42,160 --> 01:02:46,000
Speaker 2: biggest Portrigan Studies programs. They have an exhibit called San

1158
01:02:46,040 --> 01:02:49,320
Speaker 2: Juan Hill and they go over all these different artifacts

1159
01:02:49,640 --> 01:02:52,440
Speaker 2: and they do these different interviews with families whose families

1160
01:02:52,480 --> 01:02:55,520
Speaker 2: immigrated from San Juan Hill and it's just like really

1161
01:02:55,840 --> 01:03:01,040
Speaker 2: incredible like piece of like preserving archival history of Puerto

1162
01:03:01,120 --> 01:03:03,840
Speaker 2: Ricans in New York that like the governments try to

1163
01:03:03,880 --> 01:03:05,919
Speaker 2: wipe away. And I think like they've done a little

1164
01:03:05,920 --> 01:03:08,360
Speaker 2: bit of like well we put up a memorial of

1165
01:03:08,480 --> 01:03:11,480
Speaker 2: San Juan Hill in the Lincoln Center and you're like, okay,

1166
01:03:11,520 --> 01:03:14,600
Speaker 2: but it's still or Juilliard is and it's still the

1167
01:03:14,840 --> 01:03:18,840
Speaker 2: Lincoln Center, Like like where's the money for those family?

1168
01:03:18,960 --> 01:03:20,840
Speaker 1: About all the people you displaced?

1169
01:03:21,280 --> 01:03:23,640
Speaker 4: Yeah, And it's like how frequently, I mean, I feel

1170
01:03:23,680 --> 01:03:25,560
Speaker 4: like every major city has there. I mean I feel

1171
01:03:25,560 --> 01:03:28,480
Speaker 4: like Dodger Stadium and has a very very similar thing,

1172
01:03:28,560 --> 01:03:31,480
Speaker 4: and we are seeing it happen here right now to

1173
01:03:32,080 --> 01:03:36,320
Speaker 4: historically black communities and to unhouse people for over the Olympics.

1174
01:03:36,400 --> 01:03:39,880
Speaker 4: Like it's just it's so I was glad to hear.

1175
01:03:40,000 --> 01:03:42,200
Speaker 4: And again I haven't seen the movie that, you know.

1176
01:03:42,320 --> 01:03:45,400
Speaker 4: I maybe I'm wrong, but that like Robert Moses is

1177
01:03:45,440 --> 01:03:48,400
Speaker 4: even kind of like name checked in the twenty twenty

1178
01:03:48,440 --> 01:03:51,960
Speaker 4: one version as like this is the person doing this. Yeah,

1179
01:03:52,320 --> 01:03:56,040
Speaker 4: but I don't know. Yeah, I not surprising, but just

1180
01:03:56,160 --> 01:03:59,400
Speaker 4: like it's so egregious how like especially I mean, I

1181
01:03:59,440 --> 01:04:02,440
Speaker 4: feel like the America is a perfect case study for

1182
01:04:02,600 --> 01:04:06,240
Speaker 4: this of like presenting some valid issues but in a

1183
01:04:06,360 --> 01:04:08,960
Speaker 4: completely like contextless void.

1184
01:04:09,240 --> 01:04:11,360
Speaker 2: Yes, if we want to talk about that, let's get

1185
01:04:11,400 --> 01:04:13,640
Speaker 2: into it, because I do have a lot of conflicting

1186
01:04:13,760 --> 01:04:17,880
Speaker 2: feelings about that song because I think in this lens,

1187
01:04:18,680 --> 01:04:21,720
Speaker 2: I'm like, you know what, that song is not invalid,

1188
01:04:21,880 --> 01:04:24,520
Speaker 2: because I do think a lot of Puerto Ricans, especially

1189
01:04:24,560 --> 01:04:27,080
Speaker 2: at that time, who were trying to like make an

1190
01:04:27,080 --> 01:04:29,640
Speaker 2: honest living and like make a life for themselves in

1191
01:04:30,200 --> 01:04:32,560
Speaker 2: the United States, felt that way. And I think that's

1192
01:04:32,600 --> 01:04:35,840
Speaker 2: like a very common immigrant story of like our you know,

1193
01:04:36,040 --> 01:04:39,360
Speaker 2: parents and our grandparents who had to assimilate by any

1194
01:04:39,440 --> 01:04:42,360
Speaker 2: means necessary to survive, and so they are like we're

1195
01:04:42,400 --> 01:04:43,760
Speaker 2: in America. We're Americans.

1196
01:04:43,840 --> 01:04:44,000
Speaker 1: Now.

1197
01:04:44,440 --> 01:04:47,040
Speaker 2: We have to adapt, we have to conform so that

1198
01:04:47,160 --> 01:04:50,160
Speaker 2: we can be successful and live the American dream. But

1199
01:04:51,040 --> 01:04:53,080
Speaker 2: a bunch of white people wrote it, and they did

1200
01:04:53,160 --> 01:04:55,640
Speaker 2: not care for the cultural context of those Puerto Ricans

1201
01:04:55,680 --> 01:04:58,200
Speaker 2: singing it, what it meant to them, what it was about.

1202
01:04:58,280 --> 01:05:01,439
Speaker 2: So it's like it's like almost like a a bad

1203
01:05:01,520 --> 01:05:03,400
Speaker 2: clock is right twice a day or whatever, you know,

1204
01:05:03,480 --> 01:05:05,240
Speaker 2: a broken clock is right twice a day. It was

1205
01:05:05,280 --> 01:05:07,000
Speaker 2: kind of like that, where it's like they weren't wrong,

1206
01:05:07,840 --> 01:05:11,840
Speaker 2: but the way they came from was not nice, versus

1207
01:05:12,040 --> 01:05:14,320
Speaker 2: like the reality of the situation is true.

1208
01:05:15,560 --> 01:05:20,640
Speaker 4: It was interesting tracing how this song has been modified

1209
01:05:21,360 --> 01:05:25,080
Speaker 4: over time because it's and this isn't a full his

1210
01:05:25,240 --> 01:05:29,040
Speaker 4: My notes are disorganized, so I apologize, but for I

1211
01:05:29,120 --> 01:05:32,920
Speaker 4: mean Rita Moreno has mentioned that like she was a

1212
01:05:33,400 --> 01:05:37,800
Speaker 4: reason that part of the lyrics were adjusted for the

1213
01:05:37,960 --> 01:05:42,520
Speaker 4: nineteen sixty one version originally. I also think that there's

1214
01:05:42,560 --> 01:05:44,920
Speaker 4: like a gender dynamic change in the way this song

1215
01:05:45,000 --> 01:05:49,880
Speaker 4: is delivered. America is originally only song with women. It's

1216
01:05:49,960 --> 01:05:52,600
Speaker 4: only Puerto Rican women singing to each other, and it's

1217
01:05:52,720 --> 01:05:55,240
Speaker 4: a character named Rosalia who exists in the movie, but

1218
01:05:55,400 --> 01:05:58,800
Speaker 4: far less so. Who is you know, expressing like I

1219
01:05:58,920 --> 01:06:02,440
Speaker 4: really miss Puerto Rico so beautiful, like feeling homesick, and

1220
01:06:02,560 --> 01:06:07,320
Speaker 4: then Anita is aggressively like, no, like it sucks. There's

1221
01:06:07,400 --> 01:06:12,640
Speaker 4: a ugly island, tropic diseases like this very very internalized

1222
01:06:12,680 --> 01:06:17,880
Speaker 4: hatred of Puerto Rico. It's changed for the movie. Some

1223
01:06:18,040 --> 01:06:20,720
Speaker 4: of the language is softened and the gender dynamic is

1224
01:06:20,840 --> 01:06:24,280
Speaker 4: changed so that it's Bernardo and Anita singing to each

1225
01:06:24,280 --> 01:06:29,080
Speaker 4: other about this, and Anita's character is I've seen it argued,

1226
01:06:29,760 --> 01:06:32,600
Speaker 4: is presented as a little more flippant and not like

1227
01:06:32,720 --> 01:06:35,720
Speaker 4: she is saying necessarily this is the truth, which I

1228
01:06:35,760 --> 01:06:38,560
Speaker 4: guess is how it was presented on Broadway. And then

1229
01:06:38,600 --> 01:06:43,040
Speaker 4: it's changed again for twenty twenty one, where Ariana Debo's

1230
01:06:43,760 --> 01:06:48,120
Speaker 4: does not disparage Puerto Rico in America, but there is

1231
01:06:48,240 --> 01:06:50,880
Speaker 4: still kind of this like confusing amount of context. And

1232
01:06:50,920 --> 01:06:52,600
Speaker 4: then also in the movie, I'm curious for what you

1233
01:06:52,880 --> 01:06:56,760
Speaker 4: think about this, because Bernardo is like making some excellent points, yes,

1234
01:06:56,840 --> 01:06:58,440
Speaker 4: throughout the song, which.

1235
01:06:58,280 --> 01:07:00,120
Speaker 2: Is why I don't hate the song, because I'm like,

1236
01:07:00,280 --> 01:07:03,360
Speaker 2: I don't think it's inherently like I think I did

1237
01:07:03,440 --> 01:07:06,120
Speaker 2: not have the context of the actual Broadway lyrics, and

1238
01:07:06,240 --> 01:07:08,280
Speaker 2: that makes more sense why people hated the broad because

1239
01:07:08,280 --> 01:07:10,200
Speaker 2: I'm like everything I read was like everyone hated the

1240
01:07:10,240 --> 01:07:12,800
Speaker 2: Broadway version than they love the movie, and I didn't

1241
01:07:12,840 --> 01:07:15,000
Speaker 2: notice how much had changed. I knew Rito was a

1242
01:07:15,040 --> 01:07:18,320
Speaker 2: big part of any changes that were made to the

1243
01:07:18,440 --> 01:07:23,480
Speaker 2: movie experience versus the Broadway musical. But I think it

1244
01:07:23,720 --> 01:07:27,280
Speaker 2: is a real conversation that those who are immigrating have

1245
01:07:27,960 --> 01:07:30,880
Speaker 2: of like this, like we love our homeland, but those

1246
01:07:30,920 --> 01:07:33,960
Speaker 2: who are I think it's very common. I have this

1247
01:07:34,000 --> 01:07:37,400
Speaker 2: conversation with my dad and my grandmother, like in the podcast,

1248
01:07:37,520 --> 01:07:40,560
Speaker 2: of like the way that they will rewrite history to

1249
01:07:40,720 --> 01:07:44,080
Speaker 2: make themselves not feel the pain. And I think it's

1250
01:07:44,120 --> 01:07:45,960
Speaker 2: a part of it is the assimilation, where it's like

1251
01:07:46,000 --> 01:07:49,000
Speaker 2: if we don't love this place, if we don't make

1252
01:07:49,040 --> 01:07:51,560
Speaker 2: ourselves love this place, then we'll be reminded of how

1253
01:07:51,640 --> 01:07:53,640
Speaker 2: painful it is to be here. And I think that

1254
01:07:53,880 --> 01:07:57,920
Speaker 2: is like the push and pull between Anita and Bernardo,

1255
01:07:58,000 --> 01:08:00,960
Speaker 2: where he I think it's just like this is temporary,

1256
01:08:01,400 --> 01:08:04,000
Speaker 2: I'm here to make money, I'm gonna go back home anything.

1257
01:08:04,040 --> 01:08:06,760
Speaker 2: Anita sees the realities that like there is no home.

1258
01:08:06,960 --> 01:08:09,720
Speaker 2: We're not going back. We don't have the resources, We're

1259
01:08:09,760 --> 01:08:11,320
Speaker 2: never gonna have the money to go back, Like, we

1260
01:08:11,480 --> 01:08:14,800
Speaker 2: have to make a life here, so get used to it,

1261
01:08:15,040 --> 01:08:19,839
Speaker 2: almost And I don't think this is a wrong narrative

1262
01:08:19,920 --> 01:08:22,800
Speaker 2: that was had in the fifties. I think it's very real.

1263
01:08:24,200 --> 01:08:25,200
Speaker 4: So yeah, yeah, I.

1264
01:08:25,240 --> 01:08:28,840
Speaker 1: Wish that specific sentiment that you just detailed was more

1265
01:08:29,479 --> 01:08:32,920
Speaker 1: explicit in the movie, because the way the nineteen sixty

1266
01:08:33,000 --> 01:08:39,280
Speaker 1: one movie handles this dynamic of like the conflicting attitudes

1267
01:08:39,360 --> 01:08:43,560
Speaker 1: between it seems like it's all of the women being like,

1268
01:08:44,040 --> 01:08:47,240
Speaker 1: I love America, it's awesome. And the reasons that they cite,

1269
01:08:47,360 --> 01:08:50,599
Speaker 1: like the lyrics are things like skyscrapers bloom in America,

1270
01:08:50,920 --> 01:08:55,280
Speaker 1: cadillacs zoom in America, industry booms in America. They're talking

1271
01:08:55,320 --> 01:08:57,760
Speaker 1: about how they can buy stuff on credit, how they

1272
01:08:57,840 --> 01:09:00,320
Speaker 1: can have all these pretty dresses. All this stuff makes

1273
01:09:00,360 --> 01:09:04,720
Speaker 1: them seem like they're obsessed with like American capitalism and

1274
01:09:04,800 --> 01:09:07,599
Speaker 1: consumerism in a way that makes them seem kind of shallow.

1275
01:09:08,160 --> 01:09:10,720
Speaker 1: And then the men come in with points like we

1276
01:09:11,160 --> 01:09:14,160
Speaker 1: get paid half the amount as white people do for

1277
01:09:14,240 --> 01:09:18,360
Speaker 1: the same labor. We are charged twice the amount to

1278
01:09:18,520 --> 01:09:22,000
Speaker 1: buy things than white people. The only jobs that we

1279
01:09:22,320 --> 01:09:24,839
Speaker 1: are able to ever get are things like waiting tables

1280
01:09:24,920 --> 01:09:29,680
Speaker 1: and shining shoes. We are treated like outsiders and foreigners,

1281
01:09:29,960 --> 01:09:32,600
Speaker 1: even though Puerto Rico is part of the US, like

1282
01:09:32,880 --> 01:09:35,000
Speaker 1: but we are treated as though we are not Americans.

1283
01:09:35,560 --> 01:09:38,920
Speaker 1: So there's like what feels like a very like stereotypical

1284
01:09:39,000 --> 01:09:41,439
Speaker 1: gender dynamic almost happening where it's like, well, the girls

1285
01:09:41,479 --> 01:09:45,559
Speaker 1: love America because they can buy pretty dresses here.

1286
01:09:45,680 --> 01:09:48,880
Speaker 2: They can shop because when to be shopping, they get job,

1287
01:09:49,120 --> 01:09:51,280
Speaker 2: they can drive, they can do all this stuff, and

1288
01:09:51,360 --> 01:09:54,040
Speaker 2: it's so hard because it's like I as someone who's

1289
01:09:54,280 --> 01:09:57,320
Speaker 2: had a lived Portagon experience with Portagon grandparents and parents,

1290
01:09:57,360 --> 01:10:00,840
Speaker 2: and like my Aula is from Spanish Harlem like born

1291
01:10:00,880 --> 01:10:03,519
Speaker 2: and raised in New York during this time, Like my

1292
01:10:04,000 --> 01:10:07,000
Speaker 2: great grandmother and Rito Moreno's moms both immigrated to the

1293
01:10:07,040 --> 01:10:09,640
Speaker 2: United States at the same time, which was before the

1294
01:10:09,720 --> 01:10:13,880
Speaker 2: Big Boom. But they immigrated for probably similar reasons, which

1295
01:10:14,000 --> 01:10:18,120
Speaker 2: was like stuff back home, like really gendered abusive, like

1296
01:10:18,240 --> 01:10:22,519
Speaker 2: parental or familial misogynist stuff back home. And I do

1297
01:10:22,720 --> 01:10:26,000
Speaker 2: think there is like this idea as a woman in

1298
01:10:26,120 --> 01:10:28,240
Speaker 2: Puerto Rico coming to the United States that you have

1299
01:10:28,320 --> 01:10:30,720
Speaker 2: freedom in a way that you don't have in a

1300
01:10:30,840 --> 01:10:35,639
Speaker 2: very traditional machismo society, especially back then. So but it's

1301
01:10:35,680 --> 01:10:38,000
Speaker 2: like I have that context. I know the writers don't

1302
01:10:38,040 --> 01:10:41,200
Speaker 2: have that context. So it's like I am putting a

1303
01:10:41,240 --> 01:10:44,640
Speaker 2: lot on this song where I'm like, I see the benefits,

1304
01:10:44,680 --> 01:10:46,960
Speaker 2: I see how this is relatable. But then it's like

1305
01:10:47,080 --> 01:10:49,479
Speaker 2: I get angry knowing like, well, they're actually not doing

1306
01:10:49,520 --> 01:10:51,120
Speaker 2: it in that same way. They're not giving it as

1307
01:10:51,200 --> 01:10:54,920
Speaker 2: much heart and depth of care and reasoning for those reasons.

1308
01:10:54,960 --> 01:10:57,760
Speaker 2: They just luckily kind of fell into it.

1309
01:10:58,280 --> 01:11:01,200
Speaker 4: It like improves slightly over time. Yeah, there is. On

1310
01:11:01,320 --> 01:11:04,160
Speaker 4: the West Side Story official website, they have the fifty

1311
01:11:04,200 --> 01:11:07,240
Speaker 4: seven sixty one lyrics side by side, and the fifty

1312
01:11:07,280 --> 01:11:10,920
Speaker 4: seven one is just full on American propaganda and it's

1313
01:11:11,400 --> 01:11:15,479
Speaker 4: white people in brown face being like America's amazing, Puerto

1314
01:11:15,560 --> 01:11:20,280
Speaker 4: Rican women love America and have no notes, no, and

1315
01:11:20,600 --> 01:11:22,560
Speaker 4: so the sixty one one is an improvement. But I

1316
01:11:22,920 --> 01:11:25,519
Speaker 4: agree with both you that like there is I think

1317
01:11:25,960 --> 01:11:28,120
Speaker 4: and this was something Okay, I want to quote a

1318
01:11:28,360 --> 01:11:31,599
Speaker 4: piece I read that was written for the LATINX Project

1319
01:11:31,800 --> 01:11:35,720
Speaker 4: by Aurora Flores Hostos back in twenty twenty one when

1320
01:11:35,720 --> 01:11:39,080
Speaker 4: the Spielberg version came out, where she's taking a look

1321
01:11:39,360 --> 01:11:42,160
Speaker 4: at the entire movie and how it like existed in

1322
01:11:42,240 --> 01:11:45,799
Speaker 4: response to its predecessors, but specifically brings up these lyrics

1323
01:11:46,280 --> 01:11:49,040
Speaker 4: and says something similar bucka of like in the sixty

1324
01:11:49,080 --> 01:11:51,479
Speaker 4: one movie, there are things that were gotten right, probably

1325
01:11:51,840 --> 01:11:55,320
Speaker 4: almost by mistake. Yeah, but that she didn't love the

1326
01:11:55,479 --> 01:11:57,800
Speaker 4: changes that were made to the song. In twenty twenty one,

1327
01:11:58,760 --> 01:12:01,000
Speaker 4: she writes, quote, west Side Story was written in a

1328
01:12:01,040 --> 01:12:04,599
Speaker 4: controversial time that resulted in a convoluted story about misplaced culture,

1329
01:12:04,640 --> 01:12:07,360
Speaker 4: identity and survival in a hostile world. But it was

1330
01:12:07,520 --> 01:12:10,479
Speaker 4: real that those early America lyrics were racist, is true,

1331
01:12:10,600 --> 01:12:13,000
Speaker 4: But shouldn't we hear how America really felt about us

1332
01:12:13,000 --> 01:12:15,640
Speaker 4: at that time? That nascent purity of thought is what

1333
01:12:15,960 --> 01:12:18,479
Speaker 4: is sealed in the stereotypes, and trying to undo it,

1334
01:12:18,560 --> 01:12:22,240
Speaker 4: its archetypical credibility is altered, which I think is interesting.

1335
01:12:22,479 --> 01:12:25,519
Speaker 4: And I mean of all three because I did listen

1336
01:12:25,720 --> 01:12:30,000
Speaker 4: to the Ariana Debo's Steven Spielberg version of America. And

1337
01:12:30,439 --> 01:12:36,360
Speaker 4: even though that is a version that is not openly

1338
01:12:36,520 --> 01:12:41,000
Speaker 4: hostile to Puerto Rico, which is important, I still feel

1339
01:12:41,080 --> 01:12:43,320
Speaker 4: like no version of this song, at least that I've heard,

1340
01:12:43,840 --> 01:12:47,559
Speaker 4: addresses that the problem is the title of the song. Yeah,

1341
01:12:47,640 --> 01:12:50,559
Speaker 4: like there is no acknowledgment of like, you know, even

1342
01:12:50,640 --> 01:12:54,360
Speaker 4: though Bernardo and the men in the sixty one version

1343
01:12:54,400 --> 01:12:56,760
Speaker 4: are making a lot of valid points as to what

1344
01:12:56,960 --> 01:12:59,840
Speaker 4: their predicament is and how they're being forced into these awfuls,

1345
01:12:59,840 --> 01:13:03,720
Speaker 4: that it's not really explicitly stated that that is the

1346
01:13:03,920 --> 01:13:08,439
Speaker 4: fault of what America was doing in Puerto Rico at

1347
01:13:08,479 --> 01:13:11,200
Speaker 4: that time. Like there's just like this history.

1348
01:13:10,920 --> 01:13:13,960
Speaker 2: Void absolutely, like they were forced to leave. Like I

1349
01:13:14,120 --> 01:13:16,720
Speaker 2: think there's this idea in American history and the way

1350
01:13:16,720 --> 01:13:19,800
Speaker 2: that it's taught about the Puerto Rican Great Migration, like

1351
01:13:20,000 --> 01:13:22,240
Speaker 2: it was like this win for Puerto Rico. It's like

1352
01:13:22,600 --> 01:13:26,559
Speaker 2: literally America came in through the Jones Act, like wreak

1353
01:13:26,640 --> 01:13:29,600
Speaker 2: tavoc to this industrial revolution in Puerto Rico basically to

1354
01:13:29,760 --> 01:13:32,040
Speaker 2: make Puerto Rico a tax even strip it of all

1355
01:13:32,080 --> 01:13:35,640
Speaker 2: its resources. And then when the industrial boom fell and

1356
01:13:35,720 --> 01:13:38,240
Speaker 2: there were no longer job like all the jobs that

1357
01:13:38,439 --> 01:13:41,839
Speaker 2: Puerto Ricans had being forced to do in this industrial

1358
01:13:41,880 --> 01:13:45,120
Speaker 2: revolution and then the industrial revolution fell, they were like, well,

1359
01:13:45,160 --> 01:13:47,120
Speaker 2: there's no jobs in Puerto Rico. All the factories took

1360
01:13:47,160 --> 01:13:49,960
Speaker 2: all our jobs, and now the factories are closed, so

1361
01:13:50,400 --> 01:13:52,439
Speaker 2: what do we do? We have to And then in

1362
01:13:52,600 --> 01:13:55,479
Speaker 2: that like America's like we feel bad. They kind of

1363
01:13:55,560 --> 01:13:58,880
Speaker 2: like promoted this like exile of Puerto Ricans because the

1364
01:13:59,080 --> 01:14:02,120
Speaker 2: population had double. They were like, well, we'll just make

1365
01:14:02,240 --> 01:14:03,920
Speaker 2: room for you in America. I guess like we have

1366
01:14:04,080 --> 01:14:07,080
Speaker 2: to now. And there was also a lot of and

1367
01:14:07,200 --> 01:14:09,120
Speaker 2: Portocan historians don't get at me, this is like a

1368
01:14:09,160 --> 01:14:10,160
Speaker 2: lot of jumbled history that.

1369
01:14:10,160 --> 01:14:10,960
Speaker 1: I have in my brain.

1370
01:14:11,400 --> 01:14:15,120
Speaker 2: But from what I understand, also there was like a

1371
01:14:15,160 --> 01:14:16,960
Speaker 2: little bit of a globalization of port Rico for the

1372
01:14:16,960 --> 01:14:20,400
Speaker 2: first time because flights were finally coming to and from

1373
01:14:20,439 --> 01:14:24,200
Speaker 2: Puerto Rico around this time, which also added to the boom.

1374
01:14:24,240 --> 01:14:25,840
Speaker 2: It was no longer by boat, but you could take

1375
01:14:25,920 --> 01:14:30,840
Speaker 2: PanAm flights to Puerto Rico. And so because of America,

1376
01:14:31,280 --> 01:14:33,800
Speaker 2: Puerto Ricans can't live in Puerto Rico, right, Like that

1377
01:14:34,120 --> 01:14:38,200
Speaker 2: is the reality, like America destroyed Puerto Rico and then

1378
01:14:38,320 --> 01:14:41,519
Speaker 2: expected Puerto Rico to just like fix itself.

1379
01:14:41,720 --> 01:14:44,800
Speaker 4: I don't know, like it is in no way a

1380
01:14:44,880 --> 01:14:47,800
Speaker 4: one to one comparison for many reasons, but I was

1381
01:14:48,000 --> 01:14:51,720
Speaker 4: reminded as we were like looking at particularly how this

1382
01:14:51,920 --> 01:14:55,200
Speaker 4: movie ends, where it's like both sides of this conflict

1383
01:14:55,320 --> 01:14:58,759
Speaker 4: have to admit that things have gone too far because

1384
01:14:58,800 --> 01:15:02,880
Speaker 4: a white man has done yes, it wasn't enough when

1385
01:15:03,479 --> 01:15:08,040
Speaker 4: Bernard and no, the reaction, the void of reaction to

1386
01:15:08,080 --> 01:15:11,839
Speaker 4: Bernardo's death is shocking except for Anita, but it reminded

1387
01:15:11,880 --> 01:15:15,600
Speaker 4: me a lot of how the conflict between the Indigenous

1388
01:15:15,640 --> 01:15:19,040
Speaker 4: community and the Europeans is presented in Pocahontas, where it's

1389
01:15:19,120 --> 01:15:23,720
Speaker 4: like they're presented as equally violent and just man is

1390
01:15:23,800 --> 01:15:27,679
Speaker 4: inherently violent and there is no context as to why,

1391
01:15:27,920 --> 01:15:30,679
Speaker 4: even though in West Side Story you do get more

1392
01:15:31,040 --> 01:15:34,240
Speaker 4: certainly than you get in Pocahontas, which is a horrible yardstick,

1393
01:15:35,000 --> 01:15:37,640
Speaker 4: like not saying much, I feel like the I don't know,

1394
01:15:37,720 --> 01:15:40,799
Speaker 4: maybe there is stuff I missed, but like the closest

1395
01:15:40,880 --> 01:15:45,200
Speaker 4: you get for like clear headed context is I think

1396
01:15:45,280 --> 01:15:48,320
Speaker 4: it's in that that first, like they're making terms for

1397
01:15:48,439 --> 01:15:50,840
Speaker 4: the for their brawl or whatever they call it.

1398
01:15:51,000 --> 01:15:53,720
Speaker 2: No, but I think you're so right, because like if

1399
01:15:53,760 --> 01:15:55,800
Speaker 2: I think about the context of the Puerto Ricans throughout

1400
01:15:55,800 --> 01:15:57,920
Speaker 2: the whole movie, and I do think the twenty twenty

1401
01:15:58,000 --> 01:16:00,200
Speaker 2: one version does a lot to try to rectify some

1402
01:16:00,280 --> 01:16:03,160
Speaker 2: of this with like its dialogue and you know the

1403
01:16:03,240 --> 01:16:06,599
Speaker 2: inclusion of Spanish language in the change version.

1404
01:16:06,479 --> 01:16:09,320
Speaker 1: But that's not subtitled either, and it's yeah.

1405
01:16:09,160 --> 01:16:13,200
Speaker 2: It's not subtitled. But in the nineteen sixty one A

1406
01:16:13,560 --> 01:16:15,479
Speaker 2: obviously none of them are Spanish because none of them can.

1407
01:16:15,800 --> 01:16:19,000
Speaker 2: But b it's like we get that Greek, yeah, because

1408
01:16:19,040 --> 01:16:22,840
Speaker 2: they're Greek, but we get that whole song contextualizing why

1409
01:16:22,920 --> 01:16:25,760
Speaker 2: these white boys are bad boys, right, like why the

1410
01:16:25,840 --> 01:16:29,759
Speaker 2: Jets are bad. They got bad mothers, they got bad fathers, whatever.

1411
01:16:29,840 --> 01:16:31,920
Speaker 2: You're getting a whole context on why these white boys

1412
01:16:31,960 --> 01:16:34,400
Speaker 2: are bad white boys. But then you never get any

1413
01:16:34,439 --> 01:16:38,200
Speaker 2: context of why the Puerto Ricans are strifed. Why and

1414
01:16:38,520 --> 01:16:41,599
Speaker 2: the reality the closest you get is the America song.

1415
01:16:42,120 --> 01:16:44,639
Speaker 2: And even then it's like played is almost like, oh

1416
01:16:44,680 --> 01:16:46,880
Speaker 2: my god, the men are overreacting. They have such a

1417
01:16:47,000 --> 01:16:50,280
Speaker 2: beautiful life here in the United States. But in reality,

1418
01:16:50,360 --> 01:16:52,840
Speaker 2: it's like these men by these white boys are being

1419
01:16:52,840 --> 01:16:56,479
Speaker 2: pushed out of their neighborhood. They also are poor. They

1420
01:16:56,600 --> 01:17:00,320
Speaker 2: also and they also I think in this version versus

1421
01:17:00,360 --> 01:17:01,880
Speaker 2: the twenty one one version, they make it a point

1422
01:17:01,880 --> 01:17:04,400
Speaker 2: that like, the Porto Ricans have jobs and the white

1423
01:17:04,439 --> 01:17:07,160
Speaker 2: boys in the Jets in the twenty twenty one don't

1424
01:17:07,200 --> 01:17:09,320
Speaker 2: have jobs. So they're like, the Puerto Ricans are better

1425
01:17:09,400 --> 01:17:10,400
Speaker 2: in that one way.

1426
01:17:10,800 --> 01:17:13,600
Speaker 4: Let's tie it to capitalism. That's important, yes, yes, yes, but.

1427
01:17:13,840 --> 01:17:16,719
Speaker 2: In this sixty one version, the Portterians never have jobs,

1428
01:17:16,760 --> 01:17:18,400
Speaker 2: it seems like, and that's purposeful. I think it's like

1429
01:17:18,439 --> 01:17:20,080
Speaker 2: to be like they're lazy. They're fighting.

1430
01:17:20,280 --> 01:17:23,320
Speaker 4: The women do. It's just women do, but the men don't. Yeah,

1431
01:17:23,520 --> 01:17:26,880
Speaker 4: it's confused. I mean, they're they're they're the one line

1432
01:17:26,920 --> 01:17:28,880
Speaker 4: that stood out to me on this and it's so small.

1433
01:17:28,960 --> 01:17:33,400
Speaker 4: And then one thousand year long movie is when the

1434
01:17:33,479 --> 01:17:36,360
Speaker 4: Jets and the Sharks are agreeing on the terms of

1435
01:17:36,439 --> 01:17:39,880
Speaker 4: the brawl or whatever, and the Jets are trying to

1436
01:17:40,160 --> 01:17:43,840
Speaker 4: explain why they're so upset, and Bernardo says like they're

1437
01:17:43,840 --> 01:17:46,639
Speaker 4: they're like, well, why did you yell at our friend today?

1438
01:17:46,680 --> 01:17:48,479
Speaker 4: He's like, well, why did you start picking on me

1439
01:17:48,560 --> 01:17:50,640
Speaker 4: and everyone I know the second we got there and

1440
01:17:50,680 --> 01:17:53,240
Speaker 4: then you start shouting slurs and so it's like it

1441
01:17:53,520 --> 01:17:57,040
Speaker 4: is in there, but it's so fleeting yea and spoken

1442
01:17:57,120 --> 01:18:00,599
Speaker 4: in actor by actors in brown face that you're just like, well,

1443
01:18:01,360 --> 01:18:04,640
Speaker 4: it didn't happen. There was one quick I mean, there

1444
01:18:04,720 --> 01:18:08,439
Speaker 4: was so much written about the legacy of this movie,

1445
01:18:08,560 --> 01:18:12,200
Speaker 4: and will include a bunch of please drop your links in, yes,

1446
01:18:12,680 --> 01:18:15,120
Speaker 4: because there's so much that I know, we can't possibly

1447
01:18:15,160 --> 01:18:17,519
Speaker 4: touch on all of it. But there was a really

1448
01:18:17,600 --> 01:18:21,280
Speaker 4: interesting essay I read from twenty seventeen by a writer

1449
01:18:21,400 --> 01:18:26,519
Speaker 4: named Urasapi about how Westside Story I think Becca, as

1450
01:18:26,560 --> 01:18:28,680
Speaker 4: you were alluding to earlier in the episode, sort of

1451
01:18:28,800 --> 01:18:33,559
Speaker 4: became a lot of non Puerto Rican people's first introduction

1452
01:18:33,720 --> 01:18:35,920
Speaker 4: to Puerto Rican culture in a way that is still

1453
01:18:36,040 --> 01:18:39,679
Speaker 4: echoed in culture today, even though it was written entirely

1454
01:18:39,800 --> 01:18:43,040
Speaker 4: by white people that weren't even able that, like, you know,

1455
01:18:43,200 --> 01:18:45,879
Speaker 4: whatever Robert Ager's style wouldn't even go to the library

1456
01:18:46,400 --> 01:18:48,719
Speaker 4: to figure out like what was at least Robert Agres

1457
01:18:48,760 --> 01:18:50,400
Speaker 4: went to the library once in his Defender.

1458
01:18:51,240 --> 01:18:55,240
Speaker 1: Well, West Side Story was the first large scale Hollywood

1459
01:18:55,280 --> 01:18:59,760
Speaker 1: movie to even acknowledge the presence of Puerto Rican people

1460
01:19:00,560 --> 01:19:02,519
Speaker 1: in the mainland of the US.

1461
01:19:02,800 --> 01:19:06,160
Speaker 4: Yes, So in this essay, I think what Eurosapi is

1462
01:19:06,280 --> 01:19:10,799
Speaker 4: arguing here is is that there's like an undeniable cultural impact,

1463
01:19:10,920 --> 01:19:13,560
Speaker 4: but also that its existence and how it is like

1464
01:19:13,640 --> 01:19:17,920
Speaker 4: talked about is like the first mainstream acknowledgment of Puerto

1465
01:19:18,000 --> 01:19:22,640
Speaker 4: Ricans in like White America. Is that it served to

1466
01:19:22,920 --> 01:19:26,600
Speaker 4: erase a lot of existing Puerto Rican art that was

1467
01:19:26,680 --> 01:19:28,479
Speaker 4: being made in New York at this time. So she

1468
01:19:29,000 --> 01:19:32,720
Speaker 4: wrote specifically about a play that debuted and was very

1469
01:19:32,760 --> 01:19:36,439
Speaker 4: successful in the US in nineteen fifty three, So a

1470
01:19:36,560 --> 01:19:39,599
Speaker 4: pre West Side Story by a Puerto Rican playwright named

1471
01:19:39,680 --> 01:19:43,639
Speaker 4: Renee Marcus that was called La Caretta the ox Cart

1472
01:19:44,280 --> 01:19:47,920
Speaker 4: and was prior to West Side Story sort of positioned

1473
01:19:48,040 --> 01:19:51,599
Speaker 4: to be the most successful Puerto Rican workstage in America

1474
01:19:51,680 --> 01:19:53,599
Speaker 4: at the time. But then West Side Story came out

1475
01:19:53,680 --> 01:19:56,160
Speaker 4: and it kind of faded into the background. It didn't

1476
01:19:56,200 --> 01:19:59,639
Speaker 4: receive a major adaptation, and then West Side Story became

1477
01:20:00,160 --> 01:20:04,679
Speaker 4: White America's main association with Puerto Rican culture. And yeah,

1478
01:20:04,680 --> 01:20:07,799
Speaker 4: I was able. I think the only have we discussed

1479
01:20:07,800 --> 01:20:10,439
Speaker 4: this already. The only Puerto Rican cast member in the

1480
01:20:10,520 --> 01:20:14,120
Speaker 4: original Broadway production was also Anita.

1481
01:20:14,080 --> 01:20:17,640
Speaker 2: Was Cheeta Rivera. We have not discussed this, but I

1482
01:20:17,720 --> 01:20:21,560
Speaker 2: do have notes on this because Okay, Rita Moreno, in

1483
01:20:21,800 --> 01:20:25,439
Speaker 2: her memoir is a little shady bitch and I love it.

1484
01:20:26,080 --> 01:20:28,840
Speaker 2: She's very much like I think she's a product of

1485
01:20:28,920 --> 01:20:30,559
Speaker 2: her time in this way where it's like women were

1486
01:20:30,600 --> 01:20:33,519
Speaker 2: forced to compete against each other at every fascinating so

1487
01:20:33,560 --> 01:20:36,080
Speaker 2: I feel like every old Hollywood woman she mentioned she

1488
01:20:36,240 --> 01:20:37,880
Speaker 2: kind of has to do like a little dig to

1489
01:20:37,960 --> 01:20:39,760
Speaker 2: be like a little jab, but I'm better.

1490
01:20:39,920 --> 01:20:43,080
Speaker 4: And also sometimes it's just like whoever lives the longest

1491
01:20:43,160 --> 01:20:45,120
Speaker 4: gets the final word exactly.

1492
01:20:44,840 --> 01:20:47,479
Speaker 2: And that two and so she did give a little

1493
01:20:47,600 --> 01:20:52,400
Speaker 2: jab at Rivera because Cheetah is half Puerto Rican half white.

1494
01:20:52,560 --> 01:20:55,880
Speaker 2: I can't remember her mix of white immigrant, but is

1495
01:20:56,000 --> 01:20:59,080
Speaker 2: half white. And she was the original Yes and the

1496
01:20:59,120 --> 01:21:02,920
Speaker 2: Broadway and apparently she was up for doing it. But

1497
01:21:03,040 --> 01:21:06,719
Speaker 2: then in the movie Yeah, for the movie, Rita Moreno

1498
01:21:06,800 --> 01:21:09,439
Speaker 2: then studied her ass off and like went to all

1499
01:21:09,479 --> 01:21:11,880
Speaker 2: these different productions and like did dance classes for like

1500
01:21:12,000 --> 01:21:15,600
Speaker 2: two months, and also had Marlon Brando call and was like,

1501
01:21:15,920 --> 01:21:18,000
Speaker 2: can you get Rida Morino in this movie because they

1502
01:21:18,040 --> 01:21:22,400
Speaker 2: were also talking to Marlon Brando for Tony And it

1503
01:21:22,400 --> 01:21:24,719
Speaker 2: didn't end up helping at all, like the Marlon Brando,

1504
01:21:24,840 --> 01:21:28,040
Speaker 2: but basically she ended up becoming the shoe in for

1505
01:21:28,880 --> 01:21:31,680
Speaker 2: Anita and she was just like, ha ha ha, I

1506
01:21:31,800 --> 01:21:34,479
Speaker 2: beat Cheita Rivera off of it. And she was like,

1507
01:21:34,560 --> 01:21:36,559
Speaker 2: and Cheida must have been so upset because her husband

1508
01:21:36,600 --> 01:21:39,320
Speaker 2: was in the movie, because her husband is the other

1509
01:21:39,520 --> 01:21:43,920
Speaker 2: main jet, not Riff, but the other one that to

1510
01:21:44,000 --> 01:21:45,439
Speaker 2: me looks like Joey from Friends.

1511
01:21:46,439 --> 01:21:49,000
Speaker 1: Oh, yes, yes, I know exactly who you're talking about.

1512
01:21:49,400 --> 01:21:49,960
Speaker 1: That's action.

1513
01:21:50,439 --> 01:21:53,400
Speaker 2: Yes, So that was like Cheeta Rivera's actual husband in

1514
01:21:53,439 --> 01:21:56,080
Speaker 2: real life. And so she was like, she was like, yeah,

1515
01:21:56,160 --> 01:21:59,759
Speaker 2: it must have sucked that she wasn't rip anyway.

1516
01:22:00,720 --> 01:22:03,880
Speaker 4: Yeah, but wow, I love a memoir, but.

1517
01:22:03,960 --> 01:22:06,599
Speaker 2: That's my my Cheeta Rivera note. But yeah, I mean

1518
01:22:06,680 --> 01:22:08,880
Speaker 2: that is beautiful that like, that is the it seems

1519
01:22:08,880 --> 01:22:10,559
Speaker 2: to be that is the one role that the Puerto

1520
01:22:10,600 --> 01:22:13,920
Speaker 2: Rican gets to play because like obviously Arinabo's is Porto

1521
01:22:13,960 --> 01:22:17,560
Speaker 2: Rican Dominican, which brings us back to like the Maria discussion.

1522
01:22:18,120 --> 01:22:21,160
Speaker 2: You know, I was a little disappointed when I saw

1523
01:22:21,240 --> 01:22:25,200
Speaker 2: Rachel Zegler got the Maria. I understand why she did,

1524
01:22:25,240 --> 01:22:28,679
Speaker 2: because she was the right age, obviously, the right vocal range,

1525
01:22:29,240 --> 01:22:33,479
Speaker 2: incredible talent, but she's not Puerto Rican, and I'm like,

1526
01:22:33,520 --> 01:22:35,400
Speaker 2: when will we get to have a Puerto Rican Maria?

1527
01:22:35,720 --> 01:22:39,000
Speaker 2: You know, she's half white, half Colombian. Yeah, and I'm like,

1528
01:22:39,080 --> 01:22:40,800
Speaker 2: and she's still half white. And that's not to say

1529
01:22:41,160 --> 01:22:44,759
Speaker 2: Rachel hasn't been a great advocate for colorism in media

1530
01:22:44,880 --> 01:22:47,280
Speaker 2: and all that stuff, but I'm like, it is just

1531
01:22:47,400 --> 01:22:50,200
Speaker 2: like this Hollywood thing where it's like, when it comes

1532
01:22:50,360 --> 01:22:54,400
Speaker 2: to Latinos and Puerto Ricans in general, we never get

1533
01:22:54,439 --> 01:22:56,400
Speaker 2: to be the lead, even if you go like in

1534
01:22:56,560 --> 01:23:00,320
Speaker 2: The Heights same year. Yeah, that was the huge controversy, Yeah,

1535
01:23:00,560 --> 01:23:03,320
Speaker 2: because they didn't hire Puerto Ricans for the main role.

1536
01:23:03,760 --> 01:23:07,240
Speaker 2: And it's like, Lynn, we'll get there later. But you know,

1537
01:23:07,560 --> 01:23:10,799
Speaker 2: I just was a little disappointed in the Rachel casting

1538
01:23:11,120 --> 01:23:13,120
Speaker 2: for Maria for the twenty May one and I don't

1539
01:23:13,160 --> 01:23:15,639
Speaker 2: think she like played a good job at it, because

1540
01:23:15,640 --> 01:23:18,360
Speaker 2: I do think you're so much more intrigued by all

1541
01:23:18,439 --> 01:23:20,720
Speaker 2: the supporting characters. There's so much more enticing. There's so

1542
01:23:20,800 --> 01:23:24,320
Speaker 2: much more interesting than Maria and Tony. And that might

1543
01:23:24,400 --> 01:23:26,360
Speaker 2: just be a fault of the musical in and of

1544
01:23:26,400 --> 01:23:29,200
Speaker 2: itself and not the actors. But in this nineteen sixty

1545
01:23:29,240 --> 01:23:34,240
Speaker 2: one version, Natalie wood is because as you mentioned Jamie earlier,

1546
01:23:34,680 --> 01:23:36,760
Speaker 2: she's a hot lady. At the time, they're like of

1547
01:23:36,840 --> 01:23:38,800
Speaker 2: course she seems like shee and there was like a

1548
01:23:38,880 --> 01:23:42,280
Speaker 2: lot of other actresses considered that were white. All of

1549
01:23:42,320 --> 01:23:46,080
Speaker 2: them were white. Apparently Rito was like roughly considered. But

1550
01:23:46,840 --> 01:23:49,920
Speaker 2: she I think was too scared to actually be in

1551
01:23:49,960 --> 01:23:51,559
Speaker 2: a leading role at the time, because she hadn't been

1552
01:23:51,600 --> 01:23:53,880
Speaker 2: in a movie in a while when she got this role,

1553
01:23:54,280 --> 01:23:57,320
Speaker 2: So she was like very intimidated by the idea of

1554
01:23:57,439 --> 01:24:01,439
Speaker 2: applying for a lead in a movie. So that's ultimately

1555
01:24:01,479 --> 01:24:02,680
Speaker 2: why I don't think she did it. That's what she

1556
01:24:02,720 --> 01:24:04,840
Speaker 2: says in her memoir. But I want to pull this

1557
01:24:04,960 --> 01:24:08,519
Speaker 2: quote from him memoir about Natalie Wood, specifically in her

1558
01:24:08,640 --> 01:24:11,920
Speaker 2: role as Maria. She says, and of course it was

1559
01:24:12,040 --> 01:24:14,719
Speaker 2: uncomfortable for the Hispanics to see Natalie would play Maria,

1560
01:24:15,080 --> 01:24:18,120
Speaker 2: especially because we had heard that Natalie hadn't wanted the part,

1561
01:24:18,479 --> 01:24:20,920
Speaker 2: but had been so prevailed upon to take it that

1562
01:24:21,080 --> 01:24:23,920
Speaker 2: she couldn't refuse. Natalie seemed uncomfortable in her role as

1563
01:24:23,960 --> 01:24:27,400
Speaker 2: Maria when she was around us, a rowdy, ferocious group

1564
01:24:27,439 --> 01:24:30,519
Speaker 2: of dancers. This may explain her non engaging demeanor with

1565
01:24:30,720 --> 01:24:35,120
Speaker 2: US Gypsies, which en quote from Marina throughout the shoot.

1566
01:24:35,479 --> 01:24:37,760
Speaker 2: It might have been helpful had we been able to

1567
01:24:37,800 --> 01:24:41,240
Speaker 2: bombit Natalie, but she kept her distance. So I find

1568
01:24:41,280 --> 01:24:43,320
Speaker 2: that very telling. I think that was like the nicest

1569
01:24:43,320 --> 01:24:45,240
Speaker 2: way Rita could put that she was racist on set.

1570
01:24:45,920 --> 01:24:48,880
Speaker 2: But yeah, I think that was read in the way

1571
01:24:48,960 --> 01:24:51,080
Speaker 2: that her sheep performed Maria. You could tell she did

1572
01:24:51,160 --> 01:24:54,599
Speaker 2: not have any care for this character. I think that's

1573
01:24:54,600 --> 01:24:56,960
Speaker 2: why they're so annoying together Tony and Maria. You're not

1574
01:24:57,160 --> 01:25:01,000
Speaker 2: like sold on their love story. Yeah, And I just

1575
01:25:01,080 --> 01:25:03,200
Speaker 2: think it was like, this was like the most obvious

1576
01:25:03,240 --> 01:25:06,160
Speaker 2: fix they could have done for the twenty twenty one version,

1577
01:25:06,920 --> 01:25:07,479
Speaker 2: and they didn't.

1578
01:25:08,160 --> 01:25:10,360
Speaker 4: I mean, I think the other thing and this also

1579
01:25:10,400 --> 01:25:12,960
Speaker 4: applies to the conversation around in the Heights where it's like,

1580
01:25:13,680 --> 01:25:16,760
Speaker 4: why are we not hiring Puerto Rican directors like John

1581
01:25:16,840 --> 01:25:21,240
Speaker 4: Choos Steven Spielberg. Their talent is not remotely in question exactly,

1582
01:25:21,720 --> 01:25:24,920
Speaker 4: but it feels very, very pointed, and it felt I

1583
01:25:24,960 --> 01:25:28,919
Speaker 4: don't know, I am still curious to see the Spielberg adaptation,

1584
01:25:29,040 --> 01:25:32,320
Speaker 4: because Spielberg movies are great, but this was not his

1585
01:25:32,840 --> 01:25:35,760
Speaker 4: job to take be a producer, contribute like and I

1586
01:25:35,840 --> 01:25:39,120
Speaker 4: think that we see this a lot in beginning of

1587
01:25:39,160 --> 01:25:42,320
Speaker 4: the twenty tens into now I feel like it stuck

1588
01:25:42,360 --> 01:25:46,839
Speaker 4: out to me, particularly in how the conversation around Moano

1589
01:25:46,920 --> 01:25:50,000
Speaker 4: has had back in twenty sixteen was like, sure, the

1590
01:25:50,240 --> 01:25:53,960
Speaker 4: directors are white men, but we've hired consultants.

1591
01:25:54,160 --> 01:25:55,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, we have a lot of consultants.

1592
01:25:55,960 --> 01:25:59,439
Speaker 4: We actually went to Puerto Rico one time and we

1593
01:25:59,680 --> 01:26:02,280
Speaker 4: learned so much on in our four days in Puerto

1594
01:26:02,360 --> 01:26:04,519
Speaker 4: Rico that like we're kind.

1595
01:26:04,400 --> 01:26:06,439
Speaker 2: Of good and we hired Linn to do the soundtrack.

1596
01:26:06,560 --> 01:26:07,200
Speaker 3: Was that it not enough?

1597
01:26:07,560 --> 01:26:10,519
Speaker 4: It's I mean truly, I mean that's it's the I

1598
01:26:10,600 --> 01:26:13,839
Speaker 4: mean Lima and Weil Miranda's fingerprints over the last decade

1599
01:26:13,880 --> 01:26:17,640
Speaker 4: of culture should be studied, because he does come up

1600
01:26:17,720 --> 01:26:21,439
Speaker 4: in every single reference point here. But it's frustrating and

1601
01:26:21,520 --> 01:26:24,760
Speaker 4: I mean like the fact that they're that I don't know,

1602
01:26:25,040 --> 01:26:26,799
Speaker 4: and I think we used to talk about this differently

1603
01:26:26,880 --> 01:26:28,720
Speaker 4: on this very show, but I feel like at this

1604
01:26:28,960 --> 01:26:34,040
Speaker 4: point it is like I feel like consultants are not enough.

1605
01:26:34,720 --> 01:26:38,080
Speaker 4: It is better than what we're doing in nineteen sixty one, certainly,

1606
01:26:38,200 --> 01:26:41,200
Speaker 4: where it is all YadA YadA, and even and even

1607
01:26:41,280 --> 01:26:45,200
Speaker 4: the one Puerto Rican actor in the movie is having

1608
01:26:45,280 --> 01:26:49,960
Speaker 4: their skin darkened, which is absurd. Yes, but like you know,

1609
01:26:50,040 --> 01:26:52,360
Speaker 4: in the twenty tens and twenty twenties, it's also like

1610
01:26:52,400 --> 01:26:55,320
Speaker 4: it's not sufficient to say I mean it's basically to

1611
01:26:55,400 --> 01:26:58,679
Speaker 4: be you know, with due respect to the consultants whose

1612
01:26:58,960 --> 01:27:02,880
Speaker 4: labor a demonstrable effect on the work, but these are

1613
01:27:02,920 --> 01:27:04,960
Speaker 4: the people who should be directing it, like you know

1614
01:27:05,120 --> 01:27:08,720
Speaker 4: it it shouldn't. I don't know. It's like remove the

1615
01:27:08,880 --> 01:27:11,160
Speaker 4: elephant in the room, which is the need for a

1616
01:27:11,280 --> 01:27:14,719
Speaker 4: white director or a white celebrity or a celebrity director

1617
01:27:14,760 --> 01:27:15,240
Speaker 4: in general.

1618
01:27:15,479 --> 01:27:19,320
Speaker 2: It's almost this way of how do I put this kindly,

1619
01:27:19,960 --> 01:27:22,080
Speaker 2: like when we think about like times up, me too,

1620
01:27:22,400 --> 01:27:25,080
Speaker 2: all these things, right, whereas like we're gonna like like

1621
01:27:25,240 --> 01:27:29,280
Speaker 2: like that white pussy half feminism right where it's like no, no, no,

1622
01:27:29,520 --> 01:27:31,479
Speaker 2: like we're changing things, but it's like only for a

1623
01:27:31,520 --> 01:27:34,360
Speaker 2: certain demographic. And I do feel like this is a

1624
01:27:34,479 --> 01:27:36,719
Speaker 2: prime example where it's like we're hiring consultants, we're putting

1625
01:27:36,720 --> 01:27:38,559
Speaker 2: people of color in the roles, we're doing all these things,

1626
01:27:38,600 --> 01:27:40,439
Speaker 2: but it's like you're still not letting people of color

1627
01:27:40,520 --> 01:27:43,280
Speaker 2: in the room. You're still not letting them actually make

1628
01:27:43,439 --> 01:27:46,280
Speaker 2: the work. And it's because a lot of these higher

1629
01:27:46,400 --> 01:27:48,640
Speaker 2: ups do not want to dethrone themselves because they know

1630
01:27:48,680 --> 01:27:51,120
Speaker 2: the reality is if they start letting us in the room,

1631
01:27:51,520 --> 01:27:54,560
Speaker 2: then they don't get to make the work anymore, and

1632
01:27:54,680 --> 01:27:57,920
Speaker 2: they don't want that. So they are trying to circumvent

1633
01:27:58,000 --> 01:28:00,439
Speaker 2: in all these ways that they can still keep their

1634
01:28:00,479 --> 01:28:03,320
Speaker 2: little hands on power, you know, instead of just doing

1635
01:28:03,400 --> 01:28:05,360
Speaker 2: the right thing, which is like maybe the project's not

1636
01:28:05,479 --> 01:28:06,519
Speaker 2: for you, you know.

1637
01:28:07,000 --> 01:28:10,280
Speaker 4: And that's okay, like you can's like Steven spielt still

1638
01:28:10,360 --> 01:28:12,439
Speaker 4: give money to the project, like that is a great

1639
01:28:12,479 --> 01:28:16,000
Speaker 4: way to support exactly. I don't know. I'm I'm sure

1640
01:28:16,040 --> 01:28:19,360
Speaker 4: that it is like wonderful, because Spielberg movies are wonderful,

1641
01:28:19,560 --> 01:28:21,760
Speaker 4: but it did not have to be a Spielberg movie.

1642
01:28:22,240 --> 01:28:24,360
Speaker 4: And I feel like the press tour around it felt

1643
01:28:24,479 --> 01:28:27,720
Speaker 4: indicative of like, yes, no, I totally get it. I

1644
01:28:28,479 --> 01:28:31,240
Speaker 4: am famously white, but but but I did this.

1645
01:28:31,360 --> 01:28:33,160
Speaker 2: I did this. I did I'm also to Steven Spielberg,

1646
01:28:33,320 --> 01:28:35,360
Speaker 2: so like I did all this stuff because I'm Steven

1647
01:28:35,360 --> 01:28:38,479
Speaker 2: Spielberg and you're like, okay, yes, And and I think

1648
01:28:38,520 --> 01:28:40,200
Speaker 2: his whole thing was like, well, I because I'm Steven

1649
01:28:40,200 --> 01:28:43,000
Speaker 2: Spielberg could get this giant budget to do this movie.

1650
01:28:43,360 --> 01:28:45,240
Speaker 2: And it's like that's true, but then you could also,

1651
01:28:45,360 --> 01:28:48,120
Speaker 2: just like you said, Jimmie, produce it and secure the

1652
01:28:48,160 --> 01:28:50,880
Speaker 2: budget for them and not be the director and actually

1653
01:28:50,920 --> 01:28:54,120
Speaker 2: give that Puerto Rican person a chance to do this.

1654
01:28:54,320 --> 01:28:56,040
Speaker 2: But I think that was also indicative in the choice

1655
01:28:56,040 --> 01:28:59,920
Speaker 2: for doing Rachel, because like, her accent is so bad.

1656
01:29:00,160 --> 01:29:02,400
Speaker 2: I didn't really I didn't remember how bad her accent

1657
01:29:02,640 --> 01:29:05,680
Speaker 2: was until watching it again, and it just like was

1658
01:29:05,800 --> 01:29:08,120
Speaker 2: very similar to the Maria of nineteen sixty one Natalie

1659
01:29:08,120 --> 01:29:11,439
Speaker 2: would where it's just like Rachel clearly speaks Spanish. I

1660
01:29:11,479 --> 01:29:13,559
Speaker 2: think her mom is the Colombian of the two, which

1661
01:29:13,920 --> 01:29:16,280
Speaker 2: you know, I think maternal figures tend to be the

1662
01:29:16,360 --> 01:29:19,519
Speaker 2: ones like leading language for the children and stuff. So

1663
01:29:19,640 --> 01:29:21,760
Speaker 2: like you could tell her Spanish was authentic, and she

1664
01:29:21,840 --> 01:29:24,400
Speaker 2: did great at speaking in Spanish, but I think she

1665
01:29:24,520 --> 01:29:27,320
Speaker 2: did not have a Puerto Rican accent. She sounded like

1666
01:29:27,800 --> 01:29:31,360
Speaker 2: a person trying to have an accent, like trying to

1667
01:29:31,400 --> 01:29:33,880
Speaker 2: sound like a native speaker of another language, and it

1668
01:29:34,000 --> 01:29:36,559
Speaker 2: felt very phony to me, whereas like when you heard

1669
01:29:36,640 --> 01:29:40,240
Speaker 2: Ariana Debo speak, I'm like, no, she sounds Puerto Rican,

1670
01:29:40,760 --> 01:29:43,640
Speaker 2: Like whether she Spanish is her first language or not,

1671
01:29:44,200 --> 01:29:46,360
Speaker 2: you can tell she has Portocan people in her family

1672
01:29:46,360 --> 01:29:48,320
Speaker 2: and in her home, and she studied how to speak

1673
01:29:48,840 --> 01:29:53,120
Speaker 2: in that native like Spanish first Puerto Rican accent, and

1674
01:29:53,920 --> 01:29:56,280
Speaker 2: that was the difference that made a huge difference to me.

1675
01:29:56,560 --> 01:29:59,400
Speaker 2: And same thing with Maria. It's like, yes, I know

1676
01:29:59,479 --> 01:30:02,400
Speaker 2: an Rita Moreno had a lot of complaints about being

1677
01:30:02,439 --> 01:30:05,679
Speaker 2: forced to like over accent herself, but you could still

1678
01:30:05,760 --> 01:30:08,840
Speaker 2: tell it was Puerto Rican and she had to teach

1679
01:30:08,960 --> 01:30:11,639
Speaker 2: Natalie Wood how to have that accent, which sucks. It's

1680
01:30:11,680 --> 01:30:13,479
Speaker 2: like it's like, oh, wow, you make the one Puerto

1681
01:30:13,560 --> 01:30:16,559
Speaker 2: Rican girl teach the person who hates her right how

1682
01:30:16,680 --> 01:30:17,360
Speaker 2: to do her job.

1683
01:30:17,560 --> 01:30:23,080
Speaker 4: It's like cool, Christ, It's I mean, I think there's

1684
01:30:23,160 --> 01:30:25,240
Speaker 4: a conversation sort of like this going on right now.

1685
01:30:25,280 --> 01:30:28,760
Speaker 4: But how there is a clear pattern, and I guess

1686
01:30:28,800 --> 01:30:31,439
Speaker 4: I won't overpathologize it from there because I haven't I

1687
01:30:31,479 --> 01:30:35,040
Speaker 4: don't have my thoughts organized about it. But how roles

1688
01:30:35,080 --> 01:30:38,760
Speaker 4: that are cast authentically tend to only be in supporting roles.

1689
01:30:38,800 --> 01:30:41,720
Speaker 4: And then there's always a degree to this day of

1690
01:30:42,680 --> 01:30:45,559
Speaker 4: you know, even though we are not seeing brown face

1691
01:30:45,640 --> 01:30:48,720
Speaker 4: in movies now, we're seeing colorism, and I feel like

1692
01:30:48,760 --> 01:30:51,000
Speaker 4: that sort of speaks to part of what you're talking

1693
01:30:51,000 --> 01:30:53,640
Speaker 4: about with the Rachel zeglercastik and the fact that, I mean,

1694
01:30:54,560 --> 01:30:57,960
Speaker 4: even in like this year's Oscar nominee lineup, you really

1695
01:30:58,080 --> 01:31:01,240
Speaker 4: only see people of color that are strong contenders in

1696
01:31:01,360 --> 01:31:04,000
Speaker 4: supporting supporting categories, which has been true for a very

1697
01:31:04,120 --> 01:31:08,400
Speaker 4: very long time. And it is like I hadn't even

1698
01:31:08,439 --> 01:31:11,080
Speaker 4: connected this until we started recording. But like the part

1699
01:31:11,120 --> 01:31:14,639
Speaker 4: of Anita is like, I mean that won both Rita

1700
01:31:14,720 --> 01:31:18,280
Speaker 4: Marino and Ariana Deboe's their oscars, But why are they

1701
01:31:18,360 --> 01:31:20,680
Speaker 4: not considered credible to be the lead And it's like.

1702
01:31:20,880 --> 01:31:22,600
Speaker 2: Why they're not consider credible? And then the fact that

1703
01:31:22,640 --> 01:31:26,080
Speaker 2: they still both like after did not get the work

1704
01:31:26,240 --> 01:31:29,719
Speaker 2: credit that like a person who would win the leading

1705
01:31:29,800 --> 01:31:33,519
Speaker 2: actor role absolutely would like if Timothy wins, and even

1706
01:31:33,560 --> 01:31:35,640
Speaker 2: if he doesn't win, he's gonna get booked for a

1707
01:31:35,720 --> 01:31:39,360
Speaker 2: gazillion more projects coming out for life. He's set for life.

1708
01:31:39,680 --> 01:31:43,160
Speaker 2: He's been set for life. But it's like, and I know,

1709
01:31:43,280 --> 01:31:47,400
Speaker 2: Ariana Deboe's is kind of an annoying figure from what

1710
01:31:47,520 --> 01:31:50,120
Speaker 2: I understand in the media a little bit. She's a

1711
01:31:50,160 --> 01:31:53,479
Speaker 2: little corny. I like, she's just a theater kid.

1712
01:31:53,680 --> 01:31:55,040
Speaker 4: Ajelavasa did the thing.

1713
01:31:55,479 --> 01:31:57,960
Speaker 2: Yes, he's a theater kid and we have to let

1714
01:31:58,120 --> 01:32:01,280
Speaker 2: you know, let her be. But you know she hasn't

1715
01:32:01,880 --> 01:32:04,759
Speaker 2: had a serious role since then. No, And it's exactly

1716
01:32:04,760 --> 01:32:07,120
Speaker 2: what happened to Riada Marino, like for years she didn't

1717
01:32:07,160 --> 01:32:08,360
Speaker 2: work after winning.

1718
01:32:08,120 --> 01:32:11,880
Speaker 4: That the years there's a similar pattern with awards categories

1719
01:32:11,920 --> 01:32:15,640
Speaker 4: where I feel like it's a more general marginalization. But

1720
01:32:15,800 --> 01:32:18,760
Speaker 4: like you will rarely if ever see a woman or

1721
01:32:18,800 --> 01:32:20,840
Speaker 4: a person of call her win and director they'll win,

1722
01:32:20,920 --> 01:32:23,600
Speaker 4: and screenplay and likes, there's like all of these like

1723
01:32:23,960 --> 01:32:28,120
Speaker 4: little negotiations that it just feels like the industry like

1724
01:32:28,320 --> 01:32:32,640
Speaker 4: needling at marginalized people. And yeah, Westside Story is a

1725
01:32:32,880 --> 01:32:35,680
Speaker 4: frustrating case study for that, because you're totally right. Like

1726
01:32:36,200 --> 01:32:40,000
Speaker 4: Rida Marinos spoken extensively about how she struggled to find.

1727
01:32:40,360 --> 01:32:42,600
Speaker 2: Parts because then they just wanted to typecast her in

1728
01:32:42,720 --> 01:32:46,040
Speaker 2: this specific type of role, like a bad girl Latina,

1729
01:32:46,640 --> 01:32:50,280
Speaker 2: like a gang affiliated Latina girl. And she's just like

1730
01:32:50,800 --> 01:32:53,439
Speaker 2: I chose this role, which is heartbreating, because she chose

1731
01:32:53,479 --> 01:32:55,479
Speaker 2: this role from what I read in her memoir and

1732
01:32:55,640 --> 01:32:57,320
Speaker 2: just like all the research I did after watching the

1733
01:32:57,400 --> 01:32:59,800
Speaker 2: movies she TOSU because it was very authentic to her.

1734
01:32:59,840 --> 01:33:01,200
Speaker 2: She was like, I chose this role because it was

1735
01:33:01,320 --> 01:33:04,320
Speaker 2: a Puerto Rican woman speaking her mind, you know, fighting

1736
01:33:04,360 --> 01:33:07,360
Speaker 2: back against patriarchy with her partner, you know, standing up

1737
01:33:07,400 --> 01:33:08,000
Speaker 2: for herself.

1738
01:33:08,560 --> 01:33:08,720
Speaker 3: You know.

1739
01:33:08,840 --> 01:33:11,840
Speaker 2: I related to her a lot. I did not want

1740
01:33:11,880 --> 01:33:14,559
Speaker 2: to be typecast as this gang girl. And then that's

1741
01:33:14,600 --> 01:33:17,519
Speaker 2: what happened. And it's like, and the reason she won

1742
01:33:17,600 --> 01:33:19,800
Speaker 2: the Oscar for the performance is because she saw the

1743
01:33:19,880 --> 01:33:22,560
Speaker 2: authenticity in what she could bring to the role and

1744
01:33:22,680 --> 01:33:24,960
Speaker 2: brought her whole self to that role. That doesn't mean

1745
01:33:25,000 --> 01:33:27,240
Speaker 2: she wanted to be a gang woman because it wasn't

1746
01:33:27,240 --> 01:33:29,080
Speaker 2: about being in a gang. It was about being Puerto Rican.

1747
01:33:29,360 --> 01:33:31,400
Speaker 2: But the white people saw it as her being in

1748
01:33:31,479 --> 01:33:34,160
Speaker 2: a gang. And you're like, wow, you guys, like are

1749
01:33:34,240 --> 01:33:37,160
Speaker 2: raises no matter what, Like you loved a role because

1750
01:33:37,200 --> 01:33:39,320
Speaker 2: she was Puerto Rican, not because she was good at

1751
01:33:39,320 --> 01:33:41,160
Speaker 2: being in a gang. But you guys refuse to see

1752
01:33:41,160 --> 01:33:41,800
Speaker 2: the nuance in that.

1753
01:33:42,200 --> 01:33:45,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then Jamie, you alluded to this already, but

1754
01:33:46,360 --> 01:33:50,720
Speaker 1: that rita Moreno, her skin was darkened along with the

1755
01:33:50,880 --> 01:33:52,599
Speaker 1: white actors who were.

1756
01:33:52,720 --> 01:33:55,720
Speaker 4: In spite of her vocal protest against that. Like it

1757
01:33:55,840 --> 01:33:58,200
Speaker 4: wasn't like she was vocal about it at the time,

1758
01:33:58,320 --> 01:34:00,840
Speaker 4: and they and they related it anyway, how are they

1759
01:34:00,880 --> 01:34:01,160
Speaker 4: gonna know?

1760
01:34:01,400 --> 01:34:03,559
Speaker 2: And it's like, well, I guess fair in the sense

1761
01:34:03,600 --> 01:34:05,839
Speaker 2: that you guys didn't hire a single Puerto Rican.

1762
01:34:05,880 --> 01:34:09,519
Speaker 4: Right the call is coming from inside the house and

1763
01:34:09,560 --> 01:34:10,840
Speaker 4: the answer is not brown face.

1764
01:34:11,120 --> 01:34:14,400
Speaker 1: Well that's the thing, like the production clearly sees Puerto

1765
01:34:14,520 --> 01:34:19,040
Speaker 1: Rican people as exactly one type and they look exactly

1766
01:34:19,160 --> 01:34:24,599
Speaker 1: one way, ignoring the racial diversity within the Puerto Rican community.

1767
01:34:25,280 --> 01:34:29,200
Speaker 1: Because Moreno is pretty light skinned. They were like, well,

1768
01:34:29,280 --> 01:34:33,080
Speaker 1: you don't look Puerto Rican enough, and so they put

1769
01:34:33,240 --> 01:34:36,320
Speaker 1: brown makeup on her and put her in brown face essentially.

1770
01:34:36,280 --> 01:34:39,120
Speaker 2: Which, like Ritom Marino has stated, I don't have the

1771
01:34:39,200 --> 01:34:43,200
Speaker 2: exact quote, but basically along the lines of like, Puerto

1772
01:34:43,240 --> 01:34:45,640
Speaker 2: Ricans come in all shape, sizes and colors, like it is,

1773
01:34:46,240 --> 01:34:48,479
Speaker 2: and that's what she told them. She was like, look,

1774
01:34:48,680 --> 01:34:52,000
Speaker 2: Puerto Ricans are all types. So like it's okay if

1775
01:34:52,640 --> 01:34:56,120
Speaker 2: you know the cast of Puerto Ricans looks different, but

1776
01:34:56,400 --> 01:34:58,559
Speaker 2: like you're saying, kiln, they were like, well, we can't

1777
01:34:58,600 --> 01:35:02,960
Speaker 2: conceptualize and other if there's not a clear other ring,

1778
01:35:03,040 --> 01:35:05,720
Speaker 2: which is that y'all are brown and they're white.

1779
01:35:05,680 --> 01:35:08,320
Speaker 4: Right, They decided that like there is a Puerto Rican

1780
01:35:08,560 --> 01:35:12,320
Speaker 4: color to be yeah, which is just I don't know.

1781
01:35:12,680 --> 01:35:18,800
Speaker 4: I don't know how she survived the experience. I'm glad

1782
01:35:18,840 --> 01:35:21,639
Speaker 4: that she still feels at least comfortable and proud enough

1783
01:35:21,720 --> 01:35:24,200
Speaker 4: of the work that she's you know, making appearances. But

1784
01:35:24,320 --> 01:35:30,280
Speaker 4: it's interesting tracking her relationship to the material from sixty

1785
01:35:30,360 --> 01:35:34,000
Speaker 4: one to twenty one as well. This sort of transitions

1786
01:35:34,040 --> 01:35:37,360
Speaker 4: into a different part of the discussion, but around the

1787
01:35:37,640 --> 01:35:43,040
Speaker 4: assault and attempted rape of Anita's character, where Rita Marino

1788
01:35:43,240 --> 01:35:48,759
Speaker 4: spoke extensively. It has spoken extensively over the years about

1789
01:35:49,120 --> 01:35:53,400
Speaker 4: how triggering that shooting that scene was for her because

1790
01:35:54,000 --> 01:35:59,840
Speaker 4: of triggering memories of her own assault by a Hollywood agent.

1791
01:35:59,920 --> 01:36:01,800
Speaker 4: I don't think that there's more specific information about that,

1792
01:36:01,920 --> 01:36:05,400
Speaker 4: but being assaulted by an agent when she was a

1793
01:36:05,479 --> 01:36:08,920
Speaker 4: teenager and that shooting that scene in the early sixties

1794
01:36:09,080 --> 01:36:13,760
Speaker 4: was deeply traumatic. This scene has been, you know, a

1795
01:36:13,840 --> 01:36:18,479
Speaker 4: topic of discussion understandably for the entire history of this production.

1796
01:36:18,680 --> 01:36:21,479
Speaker 4: As recently as twenty twenty, there was I don't know

1797
01:36:21,520 --> 01:36:24,640
Speaker 4: if it was a Broadway or off Broadway staging of it,

1798
01:36:25,000 --> 01:36:28,360
Speaker 4: but that it was being staged very violently to the

1799
01:36:28,400 --> 01:36:30,519
Speaker 4: point where it was upsetting to audiences and they had

1800
01:36:30,560 --> 01:36:33,400
Speaker 4: to dial it back in twenty twenty, which is pretty absurd.

1801
01:36:34,200 --> 01:36:37,960
Speaker 4: And then in twenty twenty one that Raadom Moreno plays

1802
01:36:38,040 --> 01:36:43,760
Speaker 4: the character of Doc's his wife, who, again I haven't

1803
01:36:43,760 --> 01:36:47,280
Speaker 4: seen it, but I know that she her character intervenes

1804
01:36:48,160 --> 01:36:50,519
Speaker 4: in the way that Doc intervenes in the original film.

1805
01:36:51,080 --> 01:36:55,000
Speaker 4: Radam Morillo intervenes in what I mean, and you can

1806
01:36:55,080 --> 01:36:58,000
Speaker 4: both speak to it better, but as a more like

1807
01:36:58,080 --> 01:37:03,080
Speaker 4: an even more aggressive version of that scene. I was, yeah, yeah,

1808
01:37:03,160 --> 01:37:03,920
Speaker 4: what did you think of that?

1809
01:37:04,080 --> 01:37:06,160
Speaker 2: I'm glad you brought this up, because I actually have

1810
01:37:06,600 --> 01:37:09,800
Speaker 2: very frustrating thoughts about this, like about the way it

1811
01:37:09,880 --> 01:37:12,840
Speaker 2: was portrayed in the twenty twenty one I'm like, Okay, Rita,

1812
01:37:13,320 --> 01:37:17,439
Speaker 2: this role was very, very, very hard for you. It's

1813
01:37:17,439 --> 01:37:20,160
Speaker 2: something you have noted in multiple interviews in your memoir

1814
01:37:20,640 --> 01:37:23,040
Speaker 2: about how violent this role was, how triggering it was

1815
01:37:23,120 --> 01:37:25,720
Speaker 2: for you. How come you didn't get it cut from

1816
01:37:26,000 --> 01:37:29,800
Speaker 2: the twenty twenty one version outstanding to me, I feel

1817
01:37:29,880 --> 01:37:32,439
Speaker 2: like it was more violent in the twenty twenty one version.

1818
01:37:32,920 --> 01:37:36,400
Speaker 2: It was very hard to watch. I had a really

1819
01:37:36,439 --> 01:37:39,600
Speaker 2: hard time with it. I think if she was going

1820
01:37:39,680 --> 01:37:41,960
Speaker 2: to rewrite history in the way that she did for

1821
01:37:42,040 --> 01:37:44,760
Speaker 2: the twenty one version, which she like comes too late.

1822
01:37:45,160 --> 01:37:48,240
Speaker 2: They've already roughed her up, and she basically just like,

1823
01:37:48,360 --> 01:37:52,559
Speaker 2: what are you guys doing? And then Anita goes, you're

1824
01:37:52,600 --> 01:37:54,599
Speaker 2: a trader, you know, and she does her big moment

1825
01:37:54,680 --> 01:37:57,200
Speaker 2: of being like, you're actually the trader you you know,

1826
01:37:57,479 --> 01:38:00,639
Speaker 2: look at you like supporting these men, and then she's

1827
01:38:00,760 --> 01:38:03,800
Speaker 2: like delivers a line about how like Maria was, you know,

1828
01:38:03,960 --> 01:38:06,720
Speaker 2: murdered when she wasn't. I'm like, I feel like, if

1829
01:38:06,880 --> 01:38:10,920
Speaker 2: we were to perfectly repurpose the scene, ye, Rita could

1830
01:38:10,960 --> 01:38:14,360
Speaker 2: have come in sooner before the men got violent, and

1831
01:38:15,040 --> 01:38:16,880
Speaker 2: they could have still had the same scene and no

1832
01:38:16,960 --> 01:38:19,840
Speaker 2: one would have had to be like assault abused and

1833
01:38:19,960 --> 01:38:23,160
Speaker 2: assaulted or whatever, and it was still so violent. I'm like,

1834
01:38:23,240 --> 01:38:25,880
Speaker 2: if Rita was so vocal about how violent the scene was,

1835
01:38:26,400 --> 01:38:29,800
Speaker 2: I'm like, why was it more violent for Ariana in this?

1836
01:38:30,000 --> 01:38:32,519
Speaker 2: And I'm like, she has noted an interview after interview

1837
01:38:32,560 --> 01:38:34,680
Speaker 2: how long it took them to shoot that scene in

1838
01:38:34,800 --> 01:38:37,160
Speaker 2: nineteen sixty one. I can only pray and hope that,

1839
01:38:37,360 --> 01:38:39,479
Speaker 2: like in the twenty twenty one version, it did not

1840
01:38:39,600 --> 01:38:41,920
Speaker 2: take us long, because if it did, I'm sure that.

1841
01:38:42,040 --> 01:38:44,560
Speaker 4: Was really hard and that there were like coordinators or

1842
01:38:44,720 --> 01:38:47,040
Speaker 4: which I'm sure there weren't in the sixties.

1843
01:38:46,760 --> 01:38:49,439
Speaker 2: Exactly, and it's I don't know. I was a little

1844
01:38:49,479 --> 01:38:54,360
Speaker 2: disappointed rewatching it, being like, yeah, considering Rita was so

1845
01:38:54,760 --> 01:38:58,400
Speaker 2: upset about this scene, I'm surprised didn't do more like

1846
01:38:59,520 --> 01:39:04,080
Speaker 2: chain the scene while keeping it contextually like works within

1847
01:39:04,120 --> 01:39:05,880
Speaker 2: the film. I don't think it would have been that

1848
01:39:05,920 --> 01:39:07,000
Speaker 2: hard to.

1849
01:39:07,160 --> 01:39:10,280
Speaker 4: I mean, I was confused to read that as well,

1850
01:39:10,320 --> 01:39:13,160
Speaker 4: because I think that, like whatever, in the context of

1851
01:39:13,200 --> 01:39:16,960
Speaker 4: the story we are, like Anita has to realize once

1852
01:39:17,040 --> 01:39:19,080
Speaker 4: and for all that like this is not a safe

1853
01:39:19,160 --> 01:39:21,920
Speaker 4: environment for Maria, like we talked about to the point

1854
01:39:21,920 --> 01:39:26,080
Speaker 4: where like this white gang does not have a second thought, yeah,

1855
01:39:26,200 --> 01:39:29,840
Speaker 4: about assaulting a Puerto Rican woman and does not have

1856
01:39:30,080 --> 01:39:33,400
Speaker 4: a second thought of treating her like she doesn't matter,

1857
01:39:33,520 --> 01:39:35,800
Speaker 4: and that Maria will likely be treated the same. But

1858
01:39:36,320 --> 01:39:40,400
Speaker 4: there are other ways to demonstrate that point, and like

1859
01:39:40,479 --> 01:39:46,599
Speaker 4: you're saying, you can demonstrate intent without showing a graphic assault.

1860
01:39:47,080 --> 01:39:47,280
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1861
01:39:47,400 --> 01:39:52,519
Speaker 1: Yeah. The response from the character that Rita Marino plays

1862
01:39:52,520 --> 01:39:55,400
Speaker 1: in the twenty twenty one version, her name is Valentina. Yes,

1863
01:39:55,520 --> 01:39:59,040
Speaker 1: she's Doc's his wife. If you never see Doc on screen,

1864
01:39:59,080 --> 01:40:00,879
Speaker 1: I don't think In the twenty t twenty one version.

1865
01:40:00,720 --> 01:40:03,479
Speaker 2: No, they just like they show a photo of them, yeah,

1866
01:40:03,640 --> 01:40:05,679
Speaker 2: in the back of the the like an old shot

1867
01:40:05,840 --> 01:40:06,479
Speaker 2: of them. Yeah.

1868
01:40:07,360 --> 01:40:12,839
Speaker 1: Okay. But when she comes in and intervenes, her response

1869
01:40:13,160 --> 01:40:16,599
Speaker 1: is more heightened than what we saw Doc's response being

1870
01:40:16,800 --> 01:40:19,519
Speaker 1: in the nineteen sixty one version, where she says, you

1871
01:40:19,640 --> 01:40:23,760
Speaker 1: guys are disgusting pieces of shit, you're rapists. Yeah, so

1872
01:40:23,880 --> 01:40:26,600
Speaker 1: she does, you know, verbally call them out, But it was.

1873
01:40:26,600 --> 01:40:30,000
Speaker 2: Like after Ariana already got or like Anita already got yeah,

1874
01:40:30,560 --> 01:40:32,960
Speaker 2: so and Anita left, and then they gave her her

1875
01:40:33,000 --> 01:40:34,880
Speaker 2: own song, and that's like, I guess kind of what

1876
01:40:35,040 --> 01:40:37,880
Speaker 2: like timing wise, replaced that other song that we were

1877
01:40:37,920 --> 01:40:40,479
Speaker 2: talking about earlier, Okay, And I feel like this song

1878
01:40:40,600 --> 01:40:42,519
Speaker 2: was kind of like I feel like they gave it

1879
01:40:42,680 --> 01:40:46,400
Speaker 2: to Rita Valentino whatever, because like she is Rita Marino

1880
01:40:46,520 --> 01:40:50,200
Speaker 2: and like this was her, you know, reprising in the movie.

1881
01:40:50,439 --> 01:40:52,679
Speaker 4: But I just I thought it was kind of any

1882
01:40:52,800 --> 01:40:55,200
Speaker 4: time they add a song to a classic musical, it's like,

1883
01:40:55,400 --> 01:40:58,080
Speaker 4: don't ye don't do that. I was like it's never

1884
01:40:58,160 --> 01:40:58,559
Speaker 4: very good.

1885
01:40:58,920 --> 01:41:04,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it's I don't know if whose idea this was, Like,

1886
01:41:04,240 --> 01:41:06,920
Speaker 1: I don't know how this came to be the set

1887
01:41:06,920 --> 01:41:08,760
Speaker 1: of the twenty twenty one version, but it seemed like

1888
01:41:08,840 --> 01:41:12,920
Speaker 1: it was maybe someone was giving Rita Marino a chance

1889
01:41:13,040 --> 01:41:13,479
Speaker 1: to sort of.

1890
01:41:13,560 --> 01:41:16,920
Speaker 2: Like rectify that moment from but feel redeemed.

1891
01:41:16,520 --> 01:41:19,240
Speaker 1: Or something by the trauma she experienced in nineteen sixty one.

1892
01:41:19,320 --> 01:41:22,000
Speaker 4: And it's like a career, like it's a career full circle.

1893
01:41:22,080 --> 01:41:24,400
Speaker 4: Like I don't object to her big in the movie,

1894
01:41:24,520 --> 01:41:26,639
Speaker 4: but no, no, no, yeah, but the scene.

1895
01:41:26,400 --> 01:41:29,479
Speaker 1: Itself, the scene should have been that she Yeah, it

1896
01:41:29,520 --> 01:41:32,280
Speaker 1: shouldn't have happened so that we still see so much

1897
01:41:32,360 --> 01:41:34,880
Speaker 1: of the violence on screen like I would.

1898
01:41:35,000 --> 01:41:38,080
Speaker 4: Yeah, so this sort of connect I know that there's

1899
01:41:38,240 --> 01:41:42,040
Speaker 4: I've we've been recording for so long. But one of

1900
01:41:42,120 --> 01:41:45,880
Speaker 4: the things I didn't or that I was like, oh, this,

1901
01:41:46,000 --> 01:41:48,120
Speaker 4: I guess is a slight difference in the twenty twenty

1902
01:41:48,160 --> 01:41:51,640
Speaker 4: one version, but again I'm not sure. I did do

1903
01:41:51,960 --> 01:41:57,559
Speaker 4: some reading on the portrayal of interracial relationships in West

1904
01:41:57,600 --> 01:42:01,040
Speaker 4: Side Story and how there there has been a fair

1905
01:42:01,040 --> 01:42:03,760
Speaker 4: amount written about that over the years. Oh my god,

1906
01:42:03,840 --> 01:42:06,960
Speaker 4: I have so many tabs, so many tabs, so many tabs, okay,

1907
01:42:07,640 --> 01:42:11,240
Speaker 4: or basically just to say that, like it reinforces, you know,

1908
01:42:11,640 --> 01:42:13,360
Speaker 4: and it makes sense to me in the time it

1909
01:42:13,520 --> 01:42:16,719
Speaker 4: was written, but like it, you know, reinforces the idea

1910
01:42:16,760 --> 01:42:19,880
Speaker 4: that interracial relationships are doomed, the point that I honestly

1911
01:42:19,960 --> 01:42:23,120
Speaker 4: hadn't considered that. I want to make sure I'm getting

1912
01:42:23,200 --> 01:42:26,800
Speaker 4: the shouting out the name of the writer, Olivia Edmunds

1913
01:42:26,880 --> 01:42:30,240
Speaker 4: Diaz wrote this in bitchflicks dot Com. Great name for

1914
01:42:30,280 --> 01:42:34,040
Speaker 4: a website, but during a feature they were doing on

1915
01:42:34,520 --> 01:42:38,439
Speaker 4: how interracial relationships have been portrayed on film. Obviously, the

1916
01:42:38,520 --> 01:42:42,120
Speaker 4: first issue is this is not actually an interracial relationship

1917
01:42:42,160 --> 01:42:44,120
Speaker 4: we're looking at. It's two white people and one is

1918
01:42:44,160 --> 01:42:47,320
Speaker 4: in brown face. But she also mentioned like she's like,

1919
01:42:47,360 --> 01:42:49,280
Speaker 4: I'm a huge fan of west Side's story, like, you know,

1920
01:42:49,360 --> 01:42:51,040
Speaker 4: I grew up with a lot of love for it.

1921
01:42:51,600 --> 01:42:53,880
Speaker 4: But she brought up something that hadn't occurred to me,

1922
01:42:53,960 --> 01:42:56,720
Speaker 4: which is in I feel pretty, she was like, I

1923
01:42:56,840 --> 01:43:00,559
Speaker 4: internalized that as like Maria has never felt pretty before

1924
01:43:00,640 --> 01:43:05,200
Speaker 4: because a white man has never called her pretty. It

1925
01:43:05,320 --> 01:43:08,360
Speaker 4: really struck me, I felt, so I was like, yeah, duh,

1926
01:43:08,600 --> 01:43:12,920
Speaker 4: Jamie and how and yeah that their relationship is portrayed

1927
01:43:13,400 --> 01:43:16,640
Speaker 4: as you know, just fully doomed again. I feel like

1928
01:43:16,880 --> 01:43:20,960
Speaker 4: that little wedding mannequin scene, I don't know, like I

1929
01:43:21,040 --> 01:43:23,680
Speaker 4: think it's sweet. I guess all I was trying to

1930
01:43:23,720 --> 01:43:26,280
Speaker 4: get at is in the twenty twenty one version, Rita

1931
01:43:26,320 --> 01:43:28,920
Speaker 4: Moreno and Doc being married is like, oh, a successful

1932
01:43:28,960 --> 01:43:32,040
Speaker 4: interracial relationship exists in this world, and that's nice.

1933
01:43:32,400 --> 01:43:35,880
Speaker 2: But then it's almost like twisted because when that scene

1934
01:43:35,960 --> 01:43:39,080
Speaker 2: happens and Anita runs into Rita, she's like, you're a

1935
01:43:39,200 --> 01:43:42,360
Speaker 2: race trader. She's like, you chose them, and look at

1936
01:43:42,360 --> 01:43:45,160
Speaker 2: where we're at, look at how they treated me. You

1937
01:43:45,280 --> 01:43:48,320
Speaker 2: are supporting all of these white boys in your shop

1938
01:43:48,600 --> 01:43:51,680
Speaker 2: while they abused me. And then she leaves and it's like, yeah,

1939
01:43:51,760 --> 01:43:54,600
Speaker 2: Rita has her moment, Valentina has her moment after to

1940
01:43:55,040 --> 01:43:57,680
Speaker 2: tell those boys what's up. But it's like not when

1941
01:43:57,720 --> 01:44:00,800
Speaker 2: it mattered, you know, So it almost still is having

1942
01:44:00,880 --> 01:44:04,880
Speaker 2: this conversation where it's like, does interracial related works? And

1943
01:44:05,200 --> 01:44:07,600
Speaker 2: you know it does. Every story is different. You know,

1944
01:44:07,640 --> 01:44:10,080
Speaker 2: there are white people that care about people of color

1945
01:44:10,120 --> 01:44:12,599
Speaker 2: like you guys, you know, so it's not like they're

1946
01:44:12,600 --> 01:44:15,080
Speaker 2: all doomed. But I don't think in this twenty twenty

1947
01:44:15,120 --> 01:44:18,920
Speaker 2: one adaptation they also created that dynamic. I think they

1948
01:44:18,920 --> 01:44:21,240
Speaker 2: were still like brown people and white people. This doesn't

1949
01:44:21,280 --> 01:44:22,320
Speaker 2: work right.

1950
01:44:22,439 --> 01:44:24,600
Speaker 4: It's like it's kind of impossible if you're building it

1951
01:44:24,720 --> 01:44:27,400
Speaker 4: on Romeo and Juliet to be like, yeah, it's gonna

1952
01:44:27,400 --> 01:44:30,800
Speaker 4: work out, like if famously it doesn't. Yeah, but but yeah,

1953
01:44:30,800 --> 01:44:33,599
Speaker 4: I guess just to acknowledge that dynamic as well as

1954
01:44:34,479 --> 01:44:38,160
Speaker 4: in the same piece talking about sort of the virgin

1955
01:44:38,200 --> 01:44:41,920
Speaker 4: horror tropes that are present within Maria and Anita, I'll

1956
01:44:41,960 --> 01:44:45,040
Speaker 4: just quote from the piece really quick. Quote of the

1957
01:44:45,120 --> 01:44:47,880
Speaker 4: two featured Puerto Rican women, Maria is the virgin trope

1958
01:44:47,920 --> 01:44:51,240
Speaker 4: to Anita's horror trope. Maria's virginity is emphasized to make

1959
01:44:51,280 --> 01:44:53,880
Speaker 4: her a safe choice for Tony, lest our white night

1960
01:44:53,960 --> 01:44:56,880
Speaker 4: be swept into a quote unquote dirty Puerto Rican's bed.

1961
01:44:57,360 --> 01:44:59,920
Speaker 4: One obvious manifestation of this is her white dress for

1962
01:45:00,080 --> 01:45:02,960
Speaker 4: the dance. Despite Maria's wishes for a shorter red dress

1963
01:45:03,080 --> 01:45:06,559
Speaker 4: like her role model, an Anita ensures Maria's virginity by

1964
01:45:06,640 --> 01:45:09,519
Speaker 4: keeping the dance dress white and at a respectable length.

1965
01:45:09,840 --> 01:45:12,080
Speaker 4: Anita's hard work pays off as the white knight. Tony

1966
01:45:12,200 --> 01:45:14,840
Speaker 4: only has eyes for Maria, who visually stands apart from

1967
01:45:14,960 --> 01:45:18,479
Speaker 4: the crowd. So again, not something that I feel like

1968
01:45:18,640 --> 01:45:21,040
Speaker 4: is at the fore, I do at least appreciate that

1969
01:45:21,439 --> 01:45:24,600
Speaker 4: even in the writing, at least of the movie, it

1970
01:45:24,680 --> 01:45:27,759
Speaker 4: sounds like Anita is portrayed somewhat differently in the original

1971
01:45:27,800 --> 01:45:31,000
Speaker 4: Broadway production, that I think that both of these characters

1972
01:45:31,040 --> 01:45:34,680
Speaker 4: are written with love and like there's certainly I mean,

1973
01:45:34,760 --> 01:45:38,439
Speaker 4: Anita is played with such care and love by Rita

1974
01:45:38,479 --> 01:45:40,320
Speaker 4: Marina that I feel like it's you can almost kind

1975
01:45:40,320 --> 01:45:43,120
Speaker 4: of miss that that is like very much a dynamic

1976
01:45:43,200 --> 01:45:43,799
Speaker 4: that exists.

1977
01:45:44,080 --> 01:45:49,080
Speaker 2: Yes, I think because Rita is such an incredible actress,

1978
01:45:49,200 --> 01:45:51,200
Speaker 2: and she plays a role with such a nuance, and

1979
01:45:51,280 --> 01:45:54,200
Speaker 2: she is honestly like she steals a show. She is

1980
01:45:54,360 --> 01:45:57,000
Speaker 2: so magnetic you forget that she's supposed to be a whore.

1981
01:45:57,280 --> 01:46:00,200
Speaker 2: I guess in complex or because like if you are

1982
01:46:00,240 --> 01:46:03,000
Speaker 2: looking at the movie at large, right, it's like they're

1983
01:46:03,040 --> 01:46:04,840
Speaker 2: not married. They make it it such a point that

1984
01:46:05,000 --> 01:46:08,000
Speaker 2: like Bernardo and Anita are together and they're not married.

1985
01:46:08,479 --> 01:46:11,560
Speaker 4: She's talking about having sex after the fight, which I

1986
01:46:11,600 --> 01:46:14,000
Speaker 4: thought was funny. She's like Bernardo gets so horny after

1987
01:46:14,120 --> 01:46:14,920
Speaker 4: a brawl.

1988
01:46:15,200 --> 01:46:17,240
Speaker 2: You're like, sure, and then they show her putting on

1989
01:46:17,360 --> 01:46:20,960
Speaker 2: lingerie and it shows many scenes. They're the only couple

1990
01:46:21,040 --> 01:46:24,000
Speaker 2: that like has a kiss and like are romantic to

1991
01:46:24,080 --> 01:46:26,639
Speaker 2: one another. But it's like, Rita does such a good job,

1992
01:46:26,680 --> 01:46:28,240
Speaker 2: You're just in love with them. I'm like, I'm just

1993
01:46:28,640 --> 01:46:32,040
Speaker 2: I'm rooting Bernita and Bernardo. I find their love story compelling.

1994
01:46:32,360 --> 01:46:33,320
Speaker 4: Best couple in the movie.

1995
01:46:33,680 --> 01:46:37,559
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then I will say this, Okay, I'm watching

1996
01:46:37,600 --> 01:46:39,760
Speaker 2: the nineteen sixty one version. I'm like, everyone's ugly except

1997
01:46:39,760 --> 01:46:42,840
Speaker 2: for Rita Marino. I'm like, wow, everyone is ugly. I'm

1998
01:46:42,840 --> 01:46:44,960
Speaker 2: watching twenty toy one. I'm like, all the Puerto Ricans

1999
01:46:45,000 --> 01:46:47,160
Speaker 2: are hot. I'm grateful that in twenty two one they

2000
01:46:47,160 --> 01:46:49,160
Speaker 2: were like hot people will be in this movie and

2001
01:46:49,280 --> 01:46:51,519
Speaker 2: every you know, most people were hot. We're not gonna

2002
01:46:51,520 --> 01:46:53,479
Speaker 2: say ansel Ugger is hot because he sucks and he's canceled.

2003
01:46:53,840 --> 01:46:57,639
Speaker 2: But I will say Bernardo in twenty May one hot hot.

2004
01:46:58,040 --> 01:47:02,799
Speaker 2: I loved Ariana and Bernardo together and Eat and Bernard together.

2005
01:47:02,720 --> 01:47:07,200
Speaker 1: Hot hot hot, Yeah, incredible. I want to go back

2006
01:47:07,240 --> 01:47:11,479
Speaker 1: to the depiction of the Jets and the Sharks real quick. Obviously,

2007
01:47:11,600 --> 01:47:15,599
Speaker 1: the animosity between them largely stems from the Jets being

2008
01:47:15,720 --> 01:47:19,800
Speaker 1: racist toward these sharks and the Sharks not standing for

2009
01:47:19,960 --> 01:47:25,439
Speaker 1: that treatment. But there's also societal prejudice against the Jets

2010
01:47:25,640 --> 01:47:29,280
Speaker 1: because even though they are white Europeans, they are the

2011
01:47:29,400 --> 01:47:33,120
Speaker 1: children of immigrants from European countries that at the time

2012
01:47:33,360 --> 01:47:37,960
Speaker 1: were stigmatized in the US. So it's people of Irish,

2013
01:47:38,200 --> 01:47:43,839
Speaker 1: Polish Italian descent, and obviously the discrimination they experienced pales

2014
01:47:43,880 --> 01:47:48,559
Speaker 1: in comparison to the racism that the Puerto Rican characters

2015
01:47:48,600 --> 01:47:51,479
Speaker 1: would have experienced, the racism that black and brown people

2016
01:47:51,560 --> 01:47:55,280
Speaker 1: in general have always faced throughout the US and elsewhere.

2017
01:47:56,000 --> 01:47:59,200
Speaker 1: But what the movie doesn't seem to acknowledge at all,

2018
01:47:59,320 --> 01:48:01,599
Speaker 1: or what what I think the twenty twenty one version

2019
01:48:01,680 --> 01:48:04,719
Speaker 1: could have maybe done more of, but doesn't really seem

2020
01:48:04,840 --> 01:48:08,960
Speaker 1: to do, is that it's these two feuding groups of

2021
01:48:09,520 --> 01:48:15,800
Speaker 1: poor men, right, and we know that what usually is

2022
01:48:15,920 --> 01:48:20,000
Speaker 1: happening here is that it's poor white people buying into

2023
01:48:20,040 --> 01:48:23,679
Speaker 1: the propaganda that the reason that they're poor and miserable

2024
01:48:23,800 --> 01:48:27,519
Speaker 1: is because of immigrants from other places learning and stealing

2025
01:48:27,560 --> 01:48:31,080
Speaker 1: their jobs. Again, this is not explicitly said the movie,

2026
01:48:31,280 --> 01:48:33,559
Speaker 1: but This is like the context for why these things

2027
01:48:33,640 --> 01:48:37,400
Speaker 1: tend to happen, poor white people buying into the propaganda

2028
01:48:37,600 --> 01:48:40,439
Speaker 1: that the American Empire has been pushing for a very

2029
01:48:40,479 --> 01:48:43,840
Speaker 1: long time, so that they will target their frustration and

2030
01:48:43,920 --> 01:48:48,960
Speaker 1: anger against people of color and immigrants instead of fighting

2031
01:48:49,439 --> 01:48:51,560
Speaker 1: the people they should be fighting, which is obviously the

2032
01:48:51,680 --> 01:48:56,879
Speaker 1: rich ruling class, and that seems to be the basis

2033
01:48:57,240 --> 01:49:03,040
Speaker 1: of the brawl between the Jets and the Sharks. Movie

2034
01:49:03,120 --> 01:49:06,880
Speaker 1: doesn't None of the adaptations seem to be well.

2035
01:49:06,880 --> 01:49:10,080
Speaker 4: I feel like most movies are like not able to

2036
01:49:10,280 --> 01:49:13,000
Speaker 4: just say a cab and also to some extent, I

2037
01:49:13,080 --> 01:49:14,920
Speaker 4: do think, like, I don't know, while it would be

2038
01:49:14,920 --> 01:49:19,479
Speaker 4: awesome to see a multi racial coalition that unites to

2039
01:49:20,200 --> 01:49:22,320
Speaker 4: ruin the cops, I mean, I think we're seeing attempts

2040
01:49:22,320 --> 01:49:24,400
Speaker 4: at that right now in Minneapolis, and it's really really

2041
01:49:24,439 --> 01:49:28,160
Speaker 4: exciting you. But it is very rare and was four

2042
01:49:28,280 --> 01:49:34,599
Speaker 4: nineteen sixty one soft impressed at how the cops, I mean,

2043
01:49:34,640 --> 01:49:38,639
Speaker 4: the cops are more portrayed as like oafish violent versus

2044
01:49:39,400 --> 01:49:43,520
Speaker 4: murderous violent in this, which I think is a very hollywoodified,

2045
01:49:43,720 --> 01:49:45,120
Speaker 4: like cop with a donut kind.

2046
01:49:45,040 --> 01:49:48,519
Speaker 5: Of deal, especially at that time totally, yeah, for sure,

2047
01:49:48,680 --> 01:49:52,439
Speaker 5: But I did appreciate how like Officer Shrek an officer

2048
01:49:52,600 --> 01:49:56,040
Speaker 5: like how America and Officer Krupkey are like numbers that

2049
01:49:56,040 --> 01:49:58,240
Speaker 5: are kind of in conversation with each other because they're

2050
01:49:58,400 --> 01:49:59,160
Speaker 5: talking a lot.

2051
01:49:59,080 --> 01:50:05,160
Speaker 4: About how institutions view these groups respectively. And like Officer

2052
01:50:05,200 --> 01:50:08,400
Speaker 4: Shrek literally says at one point, I've got a badge.

2053
01:50:08,400 --> 01:50:10,000
Speaker 4: What do you have? He's like, I know it's a

2054
01:50:10,040 --> 01:50:12,479
Speaker 4: free country, but actually it's not, and get out of here,

2055
01:50:12,520 --> 01:50:15,040
Speaker 4: and he kicks he kicks the Sharks out of the

2056
01:50:15,360 --> 01:50:17,439
Speaker 4: out of the soda shop and hangs out with the

2057
01:50:17,520 --> 01:50:20,280
Speaker 4: White Gang and says, guys, look, I'm rooting for you.

2058
01:50:20,439 --> 01:50:22,680
Speaker 4: You just got to work with me. And that is

2059
01:50:22,840 --> 01:50:25,880
Speaker 4: like a dynamic that very very much exists that it

2060
01:50:26,040 --> 01:50:28,439
Speaker 4: was I was kind of surprised and didn't fully remember.

2061
01:50:28,920 --> 01:50:33,599
Speaker 4: Is just like pretty explicitly stated basically every single time

2062
01:50:33,720 --> 01:50:37,120
Speaker 4: that character appears on screen, he is like, I hate

2063
01:50:37,120 --> 01:50:39,559
Speaker 4: all of you, but I hate the Puerto Rican Gang

2064
01:50:39,720 --> 01:50:42,320
Speaker 4: much more so. If so, if the White Gang can

2065
01:50:42,520 --> 01:50:46,120
Speaker 4: just like lay low enough, I will not give you trouble.

2066
01:50:46,400 --> 01:50:50,040
Speaker 2: And yeah, you don't bother me, I won't bother you exactly, which.

2067
01:50:50,000 --> 01:50:53,240
Speaker 4: Which is like a tacit understanding that exists between a

2068
01:50:53,320 --> 01:50:55,360
Speaker 4: lot of bodies of power.

2069
01:50:55,479 --> 01:50:56,720
Speaker 2: I'm watched enough Chicago PD.

2070
01:50:57,160 --> 01:50:59,960
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's like it is. It is a real thing,

2071
01:51:00,240 --> 01:51:02,800
Speaker 4: and I don't know, like especially in an over the

2072
01:51:02,840 --> 01:51:06,320
Speaker 4: top musical based on a Shakespeare play, it was not refreshing,

2073
01:51:06,439 --> 01:51:07,880
Speaker 4: but it was like, oh, that is like a weirdly

2074
01:51:07,960 --> 01:51:11,600
Speaker 4: grounded element of this movie. And that, you know, we

2075
01:51:11,800 --> 01:51:16,320
Speaker 4: see that the Jets are openly racist, like constantly, and

2076
01:51:17,000 --> 01:51:19,920
Speaker 4: in Officer krup Key you do get some context for

2077
01:51:20,160 --> 01:51:23,760
Speaker 4: like the Jets are aware of how the cops view

2078
01:51:23,840 --> 01:51:26,800
Speaker 4: them and almost play that to their advantage sometimes to

2079
01:51:26,960 --> 01:51:31,799
Speaker 4: play to the cops kind of like foolish, like they

2080
01:51:32,200 --> 01:51:35,280
Speaker 4: they're making all of these racist assumptions about the Sharks,

2081
01:51:35,600 --> 01:51:37,839
Speaker 4: but with the Jets, they're like, oh, well, their parents

2082
01:51:37,880 --> 01:51:40,680
Speaker 4: are all at it, like all these classist assumptions of

2083
01:51:40,800 --> 01:51:44,240
Speaker 4: like their parents are. Because I guess I was not

2084
01:51:44,600 --> 01:51:48,400
Speaker 4: entirely sure. I think I maybe interpreted it more as

2085
01:51:48,600 --> 01:51:52,280
Speaker 4: like sarcasm from the Jets. Maybe I'm wrong, but that

2086
01:51:52,520 --> 01:51:55,360
Speaker 4: they're saying like, oh, all of our mothers are junkies,

2087
01:51:55,360 --> 01:51:58,519
Speaker 4: all of our fathers are drunks, Like we're mentally ill

2088
01:51:58,680 --> 01:52:01,640
Speaker 4: we should be institutionalized. But I guess I interpreted that

2089
01:52:01,800 --> 01:52:05,320
Speaker 4: as them stating what the cops think of them, not

2090
01:52:05,479 --> 01:52:08,360
Speaker 4: what they're actually like. And we don't really get much

2091
01:52:08,439 --> 01:52:11,400
Speaker 4: background for what anyone's home life is like in this

2092
01:52:11,840 --> 01:52:13,400
Speaker 4: so it's kind of hard to tell. But we know

2093
01:52:13,520 --> 01:52:15,960
Speaker 4: that like Maria comes from a very loving home, Like,

2094
01:52:16,400 --> 01:52:19,680
Speaker 4: we're not really led to believe that the struggle has

2095
01:52:19,760 --> 01:52:22,000
Speaker 4: to do with an abusive household that has to do

2096
01:52:22,320 --> 01:52:26,640
Speaker 4: with poverty and oppression and so get I don't know.

2097
01:52:26,800 --> 01:52:29,760
Speaker 4: It's not like a great portrayal of cops, but it

2098
01:52:30,200 --> 01:52:33,120
Speaker 4: wasn't as like reflexively defensive of cops.

2099
01:52:33,160 --> 01:52:37,200
Speaker 2: It wasn't pro cop, which is good, like inherently good

2100
01:52:37,360 --> 01:52:39,040
Speaker 2: that it's not pro cop.

2101
01:52:39,320 --> 01:52:42,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, there are two rivalries in the movie. One is

2102
01:52:43,160 --> 01:52:46,280
Speaker 1: the Sharks versus the Jets, and the other one is

2103
01:52:46,680 --> 01:52:48,839
Speaker 1: the Sharks and the Jets versus the cops.

2104
01:52:48,960 --> 01:52:51,479
Speaker 2: And it's like, you guys, if you guys just used

2105
01:52:51,520 --> 01:52:53,479
Speaker 2: like ten percent more of your brain, you guys could

2106
01:52:53,520 --> 01:52:57,320
Speaker 2: have united it on this front. But instead you guys

2107
01:52:57,360 --> 01:52:58,720
Speaker 2: are like, well, we still got to kill each other

2108
01:52:59,280 --> 01:53:01,880
Speaker 2: and run away from cops, Like yeah, like.

2109
01:53:02,000 --> 01:53:06,080
Speaker 4: No, kill the cop, kill that together. Come on.

2110
01:53:06,880 --> 01:53:12,040
Speaker 1: Speaking of the Officer Krupkey song, which has of a

2111
01:53:12,120 --> 01:53:19,120
Speaker 1: couple lyrics that are transphobic or queer phobic in some regard,

2112
01:53:19,960 --> 01:53:22,639
Speaker 1: something like my sister wears a mustache, my brother wears

2113
01:53:22,640 --> 01:53:25,759
Speaker 1: a dress. Yes, whatever that's supposed to mean, very.

2114
01:53:25,720 --> 01:53:29,120
Speaker 4: Like of the time transferred where it's like almost like incoherent.

2115
01:53:29,320 --> 01:53:31,839
Speaker 2: You're like, well, Kitlin, are you getting into that character?

2116
01:53:32,000 --> 01:53:33,400
Speaker 2: Because I actually don't have a lot.

2117
01:53:33,360 --> 01:53:35,639
Speaker 1: So I do want to talk about anybodies, Yes we should.

2118
01:53:35,720 --> 01:53:37,280
Speaker 2: I don't have a lot of context, and I'm actually

2119
01:53:37,320 --> 01:53:39,320
Speaker 2: I would love to hear what you guys found out

2120
01:53:39,320 --> 01:53:42,200
Speaker 2: about them, because I'm also lost here.

2121
01:53:42,400 --> 01:53:46,040
Speaker 1: Here is my take on the matter. So this character

2122
01:53:46,120 --> 01:53:49,160
Speaker 1: is portrayed quite differently from the nineteen sixty one film

2123
01:53:49,200 --> 01:53:52,639
Speaker 1: adaptation and the twenty twenty one film adaptation. The way

2124
01:53:52,720 --> 01:53:56,560
Speaker 1: this character is framed in nineteen sixty one is that

2125
01:53:57,080 --> 01:54:01,320
Speaker 1: Anybody's is a woman who wants to be a member

2126
01:54:01,520 --> 01:54:04,759
Speaker 1: of the Jets, and she this is a tomboy tomboy

2127
01:54:05,640 --> 01:54:08,880
Speaker 1: queer coding possibly, but it's nineteen sixty one, so they

2128
01:54:08,880 --> 01:54:10,320
Speaker 1: can't explicitly say anything.

2129
01:54:10,960 --> 01:54:14,240
Speaker 4: The other thing was that I saw that like, because

2130
01:54:14,320 --> 01:54:16,920
Speaker 4: this is not a character that's mapped on a Romeo

2131
01:54:17,040 --> 01:54:19,240
Speaker 4: Juliet character, So everyone was like, who the hell is this?

2132
01:54:19,760 --> 01:54:23,360
Speaker 4: It was like said that at one point there was

2133
01:54:24,240 --> 01:54:27,479
Speaker 4: someone near the top of production for the Broadway show

2134
01:54:28,000 --> 01:54:33,800
Speaker 4: who I Unfortunately, I'm not a Slate Plus subscriber, so

2135
01:54:35,800 --> 01:54:38,160
Speaker 4: now the article's paywalled. But there is a great essay

2136
01:54:38,320 --> 01:54:41,720
Speaker 4: in Slate by Isaac Butler that was published about what

2137
01:54:41,800 --> 01:54:44,840
Speaker 4: we're about to discuss, how West Side Stories Anybody's went

2138
01:54:44,880 --> 01:54:47,840
Speaker 4: from a tomboy to a trans character, but that this

2139
01:54:48,320 --> 01:54:51,400
Speaker 4: character's origin appears to be that there was a butch

2140
01:54:51,520 --> 01:54:53,760
Speaker 4: lesbian who was at the top of production and it

2141
01:54:53,880 --> 01:54:58,640
Speaker 4: was almost like an acknowledgment for her within the space

2142
01:54:58,720 --> 01:55:03,920
Speaker 4: of the play. But the origin of Anybody's remains somewhat mysterious, and.

2143
01:55:04,040 --> 01:55:07,880
Speaker 1: The characterization of the character is quite vague in the

2144
01:55:08,000 --> 01:55:11,600
Speaker 1: nineteen sixty one movie. Now in the twenty twenty one version,

2145
01:55:12,880 --> 01:55:19,360
Speaker 1: Anybody's is more explicitly identified as gender queer trans Mask,

2146
01:55:19,800 --> 01:55:24,160
Speaker 1: played by an actor named Iris Manas who is non

2147
01:55:24,240 --> 01:55:27,960
Speaker 1: binary and trans Mask. There's a particular scene in the

2148
01:55:28,000 --> 01:55:32,120
Speaker 1: twenty twenty one version where the Jets have been arrested

2149
01:55:32,280 --> 01:55:35,880
Speaker 1: and they're waiting at whatever like the precinct to get booked,

2150
01:55:36,920 --> 01:55:40,920
Speaker 1: and they're harassing anybody's. One character in particular, I think

2151
01:55:40,960 --> 01:55:45,520
Speaker 1: it's the action care Again, I lose track of almost everybody,

2152
01:55:46,040 --> 01:55:50,640
Speaker 1: but one character in particular is harassing anybody's in a

2153
01:55:50,840 --> 01:55:55,160
Speaker 1: very queer phobic way, saying like, you're a freak, you're

2154
01:55:55,240 --> 01:55:57,760
Speaker 1: a girl, Stop pretending to be somebody that you're not.

2155
01:55:58,080 --> 01:56:02,280
Speaker 1: And then anybody's responds repeating several times, I'm not a girl.

2156
01:56:02,400 --> 01:56:03,960
Speaker 1: I'm not a girl. I swear to God, I'm not

2157
01:56:04,000 --> 01:56:07,200
Speaker 1: a girl, implying that this is a trans masque character.

2158
01:56:07,280 --> 01:56:08,680
Speaker 1: And I feel like it was handled in a way

2159
01:56:08,720 --> 01:56:11,880
Speaker 1: that felt appropriate for the time that this movie was set.

2160
01:56:12,560 --> 01:56:16,000
Speaker 1: You know, it's not like they're using like super modern language.

2161
01:56:16,120 --> 01:56:20,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, did you have to say super Mario sup super

2162
01:56:20,080 --> 01:56:26,120
Speaker 4: Mario language? Oh that they would, But no, like they weren't.

2163
01:56:25,920 --> 01:56:29,200
Speaker 1: Using, you know, the modern language and nuance that we

2164
01:56:29,360 --> 01:56:33,440
Speaker 1: have to discuss gender and gender queerness because this is

2165
01:56:33,480 --> 01:56:35,880
Speaker 1: set in the nineteen fifties. The character does have a

2166
01:56:35,920 --> 01:56:40,000
Speaker 1: small arc which you see both in both versions, where

2167
01:56:40,800 --> 01:56:43,880
Speaker 1: at some point toward the end, anybody's comes in and

2168
01:56:44,000 --> 01:56:48,360
Speaker 1: gives the jets a helpful piece of information and then

2169
01:56:48,960 --> 01:56:53,480
Speaker 1: the character responds by saying like you done good, buddy boy, Yeah,

2170
01:56:53,720 --> 01:56:56,440
Speaker 1: which carries more meaning. I think in the twenty twenty

2171
01:56:56,520 --> 01:56:59,800
Speaker 1: one version, where a character is saying, like, I see you,

2172
01:57:00,040 --> 01:57:00,400
Speaker 1: it's not.

2173
01:57:00,440 --> 01:57:02,560
Speaker 4: A girl as a mask person.

2174
01:57:02,880 --> 01:57:04,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't think it comes from the same character

2175
01:57:04,960 --> 01:57:10,240
Speaker 1: who was harassing anybody's earlier. Did it need to That's

2176
01:57:10,320 --> 01:57:12,440
Speaker 1: up for debate, But because.

2177
01:57:12,200 --> 01:57:15,120
Speaker 2: They all kind of were harassing them though, so it's like, yeah,

2178
01:57:15,280 --> 01:57:18,640
Speaker 2: you know, I don't think it matters which character comes from,

2179
01:57:18,720 --> 01:57:23,080
Speaker 2: because it's like the group itself was being repatful and

2180
01:57:23,240 --> 01:57:25,440
Speaker 2: this was like the group accepting them.

2181
01:57:25,760 --> 01:57:25,960
Speaker 1: Yeah.

2182
01:57:26,080 --> 01:57:28,600
Speaker 4: Well, and another element of that character. And I'm only

2183
01:57:28,680 --> 01:57:32,920
Speaker 4: speaking to the sixty one version that I thought was

2184
01:57:33,880 --> 01:57:36,960
Speaker 4: I guess like what, Yes, particularly when the when the

2185
01:57:37,040 --> 01:57:40,960
Speaker 4: character was being framed more as a tomboy and possibly

2186
01:57:41,040 --> 01:57:46,040
Speaker 4: queer coded, is that even though you saw how anybody's

2187
01:57:46,480 --> 01:57:50,400
Speaker 4: was struggling and was being constantly dismissed within this hyper

2188
01:57:50,480 --> 01:57:54,680
Speaker 4: masculine group and you feel for them, they are also

2189
01:57:54,960 --> 01:57:59,080
Speaker 4: not allied with a woman as she's being assaulted. They are,

2190
01:57:59,280 --> 01:58:02,640
Speaker 4: I think, as we see happen all the time, allying

2191
01:58:02,720 --> 01:58:06,240
Speaker 4: with whiteness before other women and before they ally with

2192
01:58:06,280 --> 01:58:09,600
Speaker 4: women of color. And I don't know how like intentional

2193
01:58:09,720 --> 01:58:13,320
Speaker 4: that was, because anybody's is very much in the room

2194
01:58:13,400 --> 01:58:16,720
Speaker 4: participating in the harassment and assault of Anita in the

2195
01:58:16,760 --> 01:58:18,280
Speaker 4: sixty one version, Yeah.

2196
01:58:18,280 --> 01:58:19,880
Speaker 2: And I think in the twenty nine one ver I

2197
01:58:19,920 --> 01:58:23,360
Speaker 2: can't remember. Honestly, I can't remember either, because they did

2198
01:58:23,480 --> 01:58:25,160
Speaker 2: in the twenty one one version, as a way to

2199
01:58:25,320 --> 01:58:29,080
Speaker 2: like create women's solidarity, they did like kind of harass

2200
01:58:29,360 --> 01:58:32,480
Speaker 2: the jets women's too and like force them out of

2201
01:58:32,520 --> 01:58:35,280
Speaker 2: the room, and they were like you get out of here,

2202
01:58:35,360 --> 01:58:37,680
Speaker 2: and the women were like, no, don't hurt her, don't

2203
01:58:37,760 --> 01:58:38,040
Speaker 2: hurt her.

2204
01:58:38,560 --> 01:58:39,879
Speaker 1: And I would go a little.

2205
01:58:39,760 --> 01:58:42,320
Speaker 2: Random because you were like, well, in reality, I actually

2206
01:58:42,320 --> 01:58:43,480
Speaker 2: don't believe you guys would.

2207
01:58:43,360 --> 01:58:45,880
Speaker 4: In nineteen fifty with this feel like I just yeah,

2208
01:58:45,880 --> 01:58:48,960
Speaker 4: I don't know. Sometimes I again, that's I think it's

2209
01:58:49,000 --> 01:58:51,560
Speaker 4: a it's a sort of a thing that we're trying

2210
01:58:51,560 --> 01:58:55,480
Speaker 4: to figure out culturally of like, yeah, women can be wrong,

2211
01:58:56,240 --> 01:58:59,160
Speaker 4: like you know, and in fact are constantly, and it's

2212
01:58:59,200 --> 01:59:01,640
Speaker 4: okay to show that up. It's not misogynous to show

2213
01:59:01,680 --> 01:59:03,520
Speaker 4: a woman being hateful or wrong.

2214
01:59:03,640 --> 01:59:05,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, because it was like she was hateful to Anita

2215
01:59:05,360 --> 01:59:07,120
Speaker 2: up until the moment they started getting violent.

2216
01:59:07,080 --> 01:59:08,400
Speaker 4: And then all of a sudden it was like, wait,

2217
01:59:08,600 --> 01:59:10,160
Speaker 4: I was like, when you're gonna hurt a woman, I

2218
01:59:10,200 --> 01:59:12,080
Speaker 4: can't just like spit on her and color spick.

2219
01:59:12,400 --> 01:59:15,800
Speaker 2: It's like and you're like, wait, well, if you were

2220
01:59:15,800 --> 01:59:17,760
Speaker 2: willing to call her spick, then you probably.

2221
01:59:17,600 --> 01:59:19,160
Speaker 4: Put on the pink pussy hat.

2222
01:59:19,640 --> 01:59:22,640
Speaker 2: H Wait a second, No, You're like like, I don't

2223
01:59:22,640 --> 01:59:24,400
Speaker 2: think you would care if she's getting hurt if you

2224
01:59:24,480 --> 01:59:25,520
Speaker 2: were willing to call her a slur.

2225
01:59:25,880 --> 01:59:29,520
Speaker 4: And obviously it's like I'm not encouraging like hate crimes

2226
01:59:29,680 --> 01:59:31,880
Speaker 4: between women to be shown on screen, but I do

2227
01:59:32,000 --> 01:59:35,400
Speaker 4: think that sometimes it feels a little like defensive and

2228
01:59:35,560 --> 01:59:39,600
Speaker 4: dishonest too, especially when it's like specifically being like a

2229
01:59:39,680 --> 01:59:41,960
Speaker 4: white woman in this situation would do the right thing,

2230
01:59:42,160 --> 01:59:44,440
Speaker 4: because you know that's that.

2231
01:59:44,640 --> 01:59:47,840
Speaker 1: Is historically usually not true.

2232
01:59:48,040 --> 01:59:51,760
Speaker 4: It really is not the sure thing that it's often

2233
01:59:51,840 --> 01:59:56,600
Speaker 4: presented as. Yeah, yeah, I think is there there's stuff

2234
01:59:56,640 --> 01:59:58,760
Speaker 4: that that y'all wanted to touch on? I was like,

2235
01:59:58,840 --> 02:00:01,960
Speaker 4: this is I think I've gone through everything in my

2236
02:00:02,280 --> 02:00:03,800
Speaker 4: gigantic encyclopedia.

2237
02:00:03,920 --> 02:00:06,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm like, looking at my notes, I feel pretty thorough.

2238
02:00:07,600 --> 02:00:09,400
Speaker 1: The last thing I want in This doesn't need to

2239
02:00:09,440 --> 02:00:12,680
Speaker 1: be a long conversation or anything, but I do want

2240
02:00:13,440 --> 02:00:18,200
Speaker 1: to point out the misogyny. I mean, we've already been

2241
02:00:18,240 --> 02:00:21,400
Speaker 1: talking about it, but like just the misogyny that the

2242
02:00:22,200 --> 02:00:26,800
Speaker 1: men from both groups displayed toward the women. I feel

2243
02:00:26,800 --> 02:00:29,320
Speaker 1: like it's focused on a little bit more with Bernardo

2244
02:00:29,920 --> 02:00:33,920
Speaker 1: where there's a part where he's talking to Anita and

2245
02:00:34,200 --> 02:00:39,320
Speaker 1: she's like, choose between me or the war council meeting,

2246
02:00:40,040 --> 02:00:44,480
Speaker 1: and he says something like back home, women knew their place.

2247
02:00:45,160 --> 02:00:50,520
Speaker 1: Or like with Maria again, Bernardo, he's being protective. He's

2248
02:00:50,600 --> 02:00:57,200
Speaker 1: being perhaps overprotective of Maria. She's feeling controlled by him,

2249
02:00:58,080 --> 02:01:00,440
Speaker 1: and he says something like, well, when you're old and

2250
02:01:00,560 --> 02:01:02,880
Speaker 1: married and have five kids, you can tell me what

2251
02:01:03,000 --> 02:01:05,440
Speaker 1: to do, but right now it's the other way around.

2252
02:01:05,680 --> 02:01:05,880
Speaker 2: Yep.

2253
02:01:06,160 --> 02:01:08,360
Speaker 1: And Anita steps in and she's like, well, you know,

2254
02:01:08,520 --> 02:01:11,560
Speaker 1: she's free to do whatever she wants because this is

2255
02:01:11,640 --> 02:01:14,000
Speaker 1: America where everyone is free.

2256
02:01:14,080 --> 02:01:15,840
Speaker 2: Which is a little bit what I was talking about earlier,

2257
02:01:15,920 --> 02:01:17,880
Speaker 2: where it's like, I do think there's this idea. I

2258
02:01:17,920 --> 02:01:21,880
Speaker 2: mean I found that very truthful in a way where

2259
02:01:21,960 --> 02:01:26,840
Speaker 2: there is this ingrained, really toxic machismo even to this

2260
02:01:27,000 --> 02:01:29,920
Speaker 2: day in Puerto Rico, that we're fighting as women in

2261
02:01:30,000 --> 02:01:32,840
Speaker 2: Puerto Rico, that we do not have time to get

2262
02:01:32,880 --> 02:01:35,520
Speaker 2: into all the politics of that. But femicide is still

2263
02:01:35,720 --> 02:01:38,600
Speaker 2: very high in Puerto Rico. A lot of Puerto Rican

2264
02:01:38,720 --> 02:01:42,080
Speaker 2: men who are not working on themselves in liberation of

2265
02:01:42,080 --> 02:01:46,680
Speaker 2: Puerto Rico and things like that, like they are harming women.

2266
02:01:47,080 --> 02:01:49,440
Speaker 2: And I don't think Bernardo was harming the women in

2267
02:01:49,480 --> 02:01:51,760
Speaker 2: his life, but I don't think what he said is

2268
02:01:51,920 --> 02:01:55,760
Speaker 2: inaccurate to a family dynamic of a Puerto Rican family.

2269
02:01:56,640 --> 02:02:01,120
Speaker 1: Sure, right, because multiple things can be true. These characters

2270
02:02:01,200 --> 02:02:04,560
Speaker 1: can be the recipient of prejudice and racism, and then

2271
02:02:04,600 --> 02:02:09,080
Speaker 1: they can also turn oppression on to the people around them.

2272
02:02:09,240 --> 02:02:12,800
Speaker 4: And that like there's very few cultures that patriarchal abuse

2273
02:02:12,840 --> 02:02:15,840
Speaker 4: and control is not a facet of right.

2274
02:02:16,000 --> 02:02:20,120
Speaker 1: And worth noting that this happens with white Americans all

2275
02:02:20,160 --> 02:02:22,839
Speaker 1: the time is that they will use that as an excuse.

2276
02:02:22,880 --> 02:02:24,760
Speaker 1: They will be like, well, this group of people are

2277
02:02:24,880 --> 02:02:27,560
Speaker 1: really horrible to women, or they're really horrible to gay people,

2278
02:02:27,640 --> 02:02:30,440
Speaker 1: and that's why it's okay to genocide it like the.

2279
02:02:30,560 --> 02:02:34,080
Speaker 2: Israel playbook, Yeah no literally, and it's like, yeah, well

2280
02:02:34,080 --> 02:02:36,240
Speaker 2: that doesn't mean you deserve to be prejudice towards everybody.

2281
02:02:36,280 --> 02:02:38,160
Speaker 2: And it's also like, well look in the mirror.

2282
02:02:37,960 --> 02:02:41,280
Speaker 4: Babe, Like you're like, you would also kill thee Like

2283
02:02:41,360 --> 02:02:42,240
Speaker 4: what do you talk.

2284
02:02:42,440 --> 02:02:44,360
Speaker 2: It's like, we saw the fight scene and they just

2285
02:02:44,440 --> 02:02:46,040
Speaker 2: shoved all the women out of the room and basically

2286
02:02:46,040 --> 02:02:48,840
Speaker 2: assaulted them too. So it's like, right, you guys are

2287
02:02:48,880 --> 02:02:50,480
Speaker 2: being just as bad to women.

2288
02:02:50,680 --> 02:02:53,040
Speaker 1: The hypocrisy is staggering.

2289
02:02:53,200 --> 02:02:56,720
Speaker 4: They're like, you're like, Okay, we get it, everyone hates women.

2290
02:02:57,120 --> 02:03:02,200
Speaker 4: Next like it's yeah, uh, yeah, I don't know. Yeah,

2291
02:03:02,320 --> 02:03:07,879
Speaker 4: I've If the movie was trying to make me dislike Bernardo,

2292
02:03:08,240 --> 02:03:10,440
Speaker 4: I would say, like I've found him, like, you know,

2293
02:03:10,560 --> 02:03:14,240
Speaker 4: he was being overly controlling, and like I understand as

2294
02:03:14,280 --> 02:03:18,760
Speaker 4: a teenager why you would be frustrated with him. But context,

2295
02:03:18,880 --> 02:03:21,640
Speaker 4: like in the context of the fact that Natalie would is,

2296
02:03:22,120 --> 02:03:23,840
Speaker 4: first of all, it's supposed to be perto Rican, supposed

2297
02:03:23,840 --> 02:03:26,800
Speaker 4: to be a teenager, and like you said earlier, Rebecca

2298
02:03:26,960 --> 02:03:30,000
Speaker 4: is very new to a country that Bernardo is kind

2299
02:03:30,040 --> 02:03:33,320
Speaker 4: of seeing right through the promise of the American dream

2300
02:03:33,480 --> 02:03:37,720
Speaker 4: and doesn't want his sister's optimism and naivete taken advantage

2301
02:03:37,720 --> 02:03:42,840
Speaker 4: of which it is like, they can't make me hate Bernardo. Yeah, right, well,

2302
02:03:42,920 --> 02:03:43,360
Speaker 4: and this is.

2303
02:03:43,560 --> 02:03:45,680
Speaker 1: I think contextualized a little bit more in the twenty

2304
02:03:45,760 --> 02:03:49,720
Speaker 1: twenty one version, where it seems to be pretty widely

2305
02:03:49,880 --> 02:03:54,600
Speaker 1: known that the reason Tony is no longer a member

2306
02:03:54,720 --> 02:03:58,520
Speaker 1: of the Jets is because he went to prison for

2307
02:03:58,640 --> 02:04:03,040
Speaker 1: some time for beating and nearly killing a brown person.

2308
02:04:03,440 --> 02:04:03,680
Speaker 4: Yeah.

2309
02:04:03,920 --> 02:04:06,800
Speaker 2: Oh, the Jets had already gotten to a fight before.

2310
02:04:06,880 --> 02:04:10,240
Speaker 2: They had had a rumble, maybe not with the Sharks specifically,

2311
02:04:10,360 --> 02:04:13,880
Speaker 2: but like they had a different a different gang. Yeah,

2312
02:04:14,000 --> 02:04:16,960
Speaker 2: and they he beat a man to death. And then

2313
02:04:17,200 --> 02:04:20,240
Speaker 2: in this twenty twenty one version, in the rumble, he

2314
02:04:20,360 --> 02:04:23,640
Speaker 2: almost beats Bernardo to death, but then Bernardo still ends

2315
02:04:23,680 --> 02:04:26,960
Speaker 2: up dying by knife instead, right right, right right, So,

2316
02:04:27,440 --> 02:04:30,360
Speaker 2: but the Jets had it'd be like stop right.

2317
02:04:30,920 --> 02:04:35,800
Speaker 1: So the backstory that like Tony almost killed a non

2318
02:04:35,960 --> 02:04:39,440
Speaker 1: white person seems to be something that like everyone knows about,

2319
02:04:39,480 --> 02:04:43,680
Speaker 1: and so Bernardo is like he like, this man is racist. Yeah,

2320
02:04:43,680 --> 02:04:47,720
Speaker 1: he is violent toward people who look like us. Maria,

2321
02:04:47,960 --> 02:04:49,320
Speaker 1: stay away from him.

2322
02:04:49,680 --> 02:04:51,480
Speaker 2: And I think Bernardo even brings up in the twenty

2323
02:04:51,480 --> 02:04:55,440
Speaker 2: twenty one version where he's like, hey, like you went

2324
02:04:55,520 --> 02:04:57,440
Speaker 2: to prison, and now you think you're cool with the

2325
02:04:57,520 --> 02:05:00,360
Speaker 2: Puerto Ricans because you were in prison with us. Kind

2326
02:05:00,400 --> 02:05:03,120
Speaker 2: of something to that nature in the rumble when they

2327
02:05:03,160 --> 02:05:05,520
Speaker 2: were like head to head and like Bernardo was like

2328
02:05:05,600 --> 02:05:07,880
Speaker 2: going at him and was trying to like provoke him,

2329
02:05:07,920 --> 02:05:10,560
Speaker 2: I guess, but it was like he's not wrong. It's like, oh,

2330
02:05:10,760 --> 02:05:13,160
Speaker 2: you went to prison and you like became reformed. I guess,

2331
02:05:13,480 --> 02:05:16,120
Speaker 2: like now you're not racist, Like Bernard didn't believe that.

2332
02:05:16,320 --> 02:05:20,800
Speaker 4: Well, yeah, it's just like that also implies that prison works. Yeah, okay,

2333
02:05:20,840 --> 02:05:26,200
Speaker 4: like r yeah, I didn't know that was an adjustment

2334
02:05:26,400 --> 02:05:28,720
Speaker 4: for twenty twenty one. I mean it sounds like twenty

2335
02:05:28,760 --> 02:05:30,760
Speaker 4: twenty one was an attempt.

2336
02:05:31,280 --> 02:05:34,240
Speaker 1: And it was an attempt. Yeah, and it was not

2337
02:05:34,520 --> 02:05:35,680
Speaker 1: a perfect attempt.

2338
02:05:35,960 --> 02:05:38,720
Speaker 4: But I gotta say I'm not I have I haven't

2339
02:05:38,760 --> 02:05:41,000
Speaker 4: been really effectively sold of like I gotta run, I

2340
02:05:41,040 --> 02:05:41,560
Speaker 4: gotta run.

2341
02:05:41,480 --> 02:05:43,720
Speaker 1: And see this thing crawl, don't walk.

2342
02:05:44,080 --> 02:05:46,200
Speaker 2: Well, I think there were some scenes that were great,

2343
02:05:47,000 --> 02:05:49,800
Speaker 2: but I do think there was a lot left to

2344
02:05:49,880 --> 02:05:51,840
Speaker 2: be desired. And I think a huge eye sore of

2345
02:05:51,920 --> 02:05:53,720
Speaker 2: it is the ansel ugward of it all, because it's

2346
02:05:53,720 --> 02:05:55,960
Speaker 2: like you can't be like we're trying to like fix

2347
02:05:56,040 --> 02:05:58,280
Speaker 2: the racism of this movie and fix all these things

2348
02:05:58,320 --> 02:05:59,960
Speaker 2: with this movie. And then high and abuse.

2349
02:06:00,480 --> 02:06:04,480
Speaker 4: Yeah yeah, and then I do remember the like whough

2350
02:06:04,680 --> 02:06:08,280
Speaker 4: the whole like Rachel Zegler, as she so often is

2351
02:06:08,720 --> 02:06:12,440
Speaker 4: being like, how dare you speak to this man and

2352
02:06:12,880 --> 02:06:14,680
Speaker 4: press appearances? And I was like, that is not her

2353
02:06:14,800 --> 02:06:17,320
Speaker 4: call to make and she's a kid, Like she's being

2354
02:06:17,440 --> 02:06:20,200
Speaker 4: forced to make appearances with a predator, which question the

2355
02:06:20,320 --> 02:06:22,520
Speaker 4: system and not the teenage girl for once.

2356
02:06:22,720 --> 02:06:25,520
Speaker 2: With the predator situation, I'm like, you guys, hired a

2357
02:06:25,600 --> 02:06:28,120
Speaker 2: kid and he is like twenty eight. It's like we

2358
02:06:28,160 --> 02:06:31,080
Speaker 2: couldn't have fixed that either. We couldn't have hired another kid.

2359
02:06:31,560 --> 02:06:35,080
Speaker 4: I can't. I just can't. The Yeah, I mean, we

2360
02:06:35,440 --> 02:06:36,960
Speaker 4: still live in hell, it's just a different now.

2361
02:06:39,280 --> 02:06:42,240
Speaker 1: But yeah, that was pretty much all I had for me.

2362
02:06:42,400 --> 02:06:44,560
Speaker 4: Oh my god, I mean we could keep going, like

2363
02:06:44,840 --> 02:06:45,080
Speaker 4: I know.

2364
02:06:45,120 --> 02:06:47,960
Speaker 2: I'm like again, but we've been on long enough.

2365
02:06:48,280 --> 02:06:51,640
Speaker 4: Yeah, yes, I think we need to liberate ourselves from.

2366
02:06:51,800 --> 02:06:55,040
Speaker 1: From my last thing, it's a really quick, really silly one.

2367
02:06:55,160 --> 02:06:57,480
Speaker 1: But I was going to propose an alternate title for

2368
02:06:58,040 --> 02:07:02,760
Speaker 1: the movie, which is Shark Tale, perhaps.

2369
02:07:02,680 --> 02:07:08,160
Speaker 4: Sharks Sharks Tail Sharkstail, A shark's tail, an extremely sharkstail movie.

2370
02:07:08,240 --> 02:07:09,880
Speaker 1: It's an extremely sharky movie.

2371
02:07:10,320 --> 02:07:13,720
Speaker 4: Wow, I love it. Thank you perfect no notes? Yeah?

2372
02:07:14,400 --> 02:07:16,160
Speaker 1: Great. Well that brings us to the Bechdel Test.

2373
02:07:16,720 --> 02:07:19,360
Speaker 2: Oh god, I know I was like, shit, I forgot

2374
02:07:19,400 --> 02:07:19,960
Speaker 2: about this part.

2375
02:07:20,200 --> 02:07:23,000
Speaker 4: Wait, come on, okay, I hate we were. I will

2376
02:07:23,000 --> 02:07:26,120
Speaker 4: say we were all on it today except for the podcast.

2377
02:07:27,000 --> 02:07:29,480
Speaker 4: Let's see. I think that the mood. Okay, I'm gonna

2378
02:07:29,600 --> 02:07:33,440
Speaker 4: I'm gonna go to Bechdel Test dot com. We forgot

2379
02:07:33,520 --> 02:07:33,680
Speaker 4: to do.

2380
02:07:34,520 --> 02:07:35,240
Speaker 2: I don't think they do.

2381
02:07:35,920 --> 02:07:39,000
Speaker 1: Here's what I've gathered. Maria and Anita. They talk about

2382
02:07:39,000 --> 02:07:39,480
Speaker 1: a dress.

2383
02:07:39,960 --> 02:07:41,960
Speaker 4: I actually do think that the dress, even though it

2384
02:07:42,120 --> 02:07:46,320
Speaker 4: is sort of laying out the Madonna horror dynamics between them. Uh,

2385
02:07:46,600 --> 02:07:50,000
Speaker 4: the dress conversation isn't a passing conversation. It is like

2386
02:07:50,360 --> 02:07:53,760
Speaker 4: supposed to be telling us how we are perceiving Maria.

2387
02:07:54,840 --> 02:07:56,600
Speaker 4: She wants to grow up, but she's not going to

2388
02:07:56,640 --> 02:07:58,120
Speaker 4: be allowed to grow up. She still has to wear

2389
02:07:58,200 --> 02:07:59,840
Speaker 4: this girlish white dress. I feel like that is a

2390
02:08:00,160 --> 02:08:04,120
Speaker 4: like significant enough yeah to warrant a pass. It is

2391
02:08:04,200 --> 02:08:06,720
Speaker 4: not a great pass. Yeah, I think it is a pass.

2392
02:08:07,200 --> 02:08:11,720
Speaker 1: No, because even like the song where the where Maria's

2393
02:08:12,000 --> 02:08:15,880
Speaker 1: singing about feeling pretty and all of her friends are there,

2394
02:08:16,280 --> 02:08:19,400
Speaker 1: and almost everything is still in the context of like,

2395
02:08:20,000 --> 02:08:22,360
Speaker 1: I feel pretty because a white man told me I'm pretty,

2396
02:08:22,720 --> 02:08:26,880
Speaker 1: or or just like very explicit conversations about either Tony

2397
02:08:27,160 --> 02:08:30,120
Speaker 1: or Bernardo. But yeah, I think there are at least

2398
02:08:30,160 --> 02:08:35,600
Speaker 1: a few brief exchanges where yeah, you could say it passes.

2399
02:08:36,160 --> 02:08:39,880
Speaker 1: But what about the Bechdel cast nipple scale where we

2400
02:08:40,000 --> 02:08:42,000
Speaker 1: write the movie on a scale of zero to five

2401
02:08:42,080 --> 02:08:45,320
Speaker 1: nipples based on examining it through an intersectional feminist lens

2402
02:08:46,240 --> 02:08:50,120
Speaker 1: uh Oh, I don't know. It's not a high number,

2403
02:08:52,320 --> 02:08:55,680
Speaker 1: but I do know that a lot of people connected

2404
02:08:55,720 --> 02:08:57,840
Speaker 1: with this movie because it was sort of all the

2405
02:08:57,960 --> 02:09:02,360
Speaker 1: representation that there was for the time. I know that

2406
02:09:02,760 --> 02:09:09,200
Speaker 1: this movie. Both adaptations had performances won from Rita Moreno

2407
02:09:09,560 --> 02:09:13,040
Speaker 1: as Anita that won her an Academy Award. Also shout

2408
02:09:13,040 --> 02:09:14,600
Speaker 1: out to her because she has egotted.

2409
02:09:15,160 --> 02:09:17,600
Speaker 4: Yes, one of the few, one of the few.

2410
02:09:17,680 --> 02:09:21,680
Speaker 1: But Rita Mareno was the first Latina actress ever to

2411
02:09:21,760 --> 02:09:26,360
Speaker 1: win an Oscar and then Ariana Debos, who also won

2412
02:09:26,480 --> 02:09:30,320
Speaker 1: for playing Anita, was the first Afro Latina actor to

2413
02:09:30,760 --> 02:09:33,480
Speaker 1: win an Oscar as well as the first openly queer

2414
02:09:33,560 --> 02:09:37,000
Speaker 1: woman of color to win an Academy Award for acting.

2415
02:09:37,000 --> 02:09:40,760
Speaker 4: Which is amazing and also that should be rewarded in

2416
02:09:40,960 --> 02:09:43,400
Speaker 4: their subsequent careers precisely.

2417
02:09:44,400 --> 02:09:49,520
Speaker 1: So, you know, this is a groundbreaking movie in some ways,

2418
02:09:50,520 --> 02:09:55,640
Speaker 1: but obviously, as we've talked about, still relied on many stereotypes.

2419
02:09:56,000 --> 02:09:59,680
Speaker 1: The nuances that could have been present in discussions about

2420
02:10:00,360 --> 02:10:03,920
Speaker 1: and race and all the other things that the movie

2421
02:10:04,000 --> 02:10:08,720
Speaker 1: examines just doesn't do it well because it was conceived

2422
02:10:08,760 --> 02:10:15,240
Speaker 1: of by white, non Puerto Rican Americans, so didn't really

2423
02:10:15,400 --> 02:10:18,080
Speaker 1: hit the mark. I'm going to give it one nipple.

2424
02:10:18,240 --> 02:10:21,880
Speaker 4: With all of that in mind, Yeah, I guess I'll

2425
02:10:21,960 --> 02:10:24,160
Speaker 4: go one and a half for no reason at all.

2426
02:10:25,040 --> 02:10:26,680
Speaker 4: I would just just because I know we have to

2427
02:10:26,760 --> 02:10:28,960
Speaker 4: wrap up. I'll go one and a half. I will

2428
02:10:29,040 --> 02:10:32,680
Speaker 4: give one to Rita Moreno, and I will give the

2429
02:10:32,800 --> 02:10:35,040
Speaker 4: other half to Cheta Rivera.

2430
02:10:36,280 --> 02:10:38,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, Sleigh, I will give it also one and a

2431
02:10:38,760 --> 02:10:42,720
Speaker 2: half nipples, because as much as I were really fond

2432
02:10:42,800 --> 02:10:46,240
Speaker 2: of the movie, revisiting it, I do think the nineteen

2433
02:10:46,240 --> 02:10:50,080
Speaker 2: sixty one version, you know, still represents women pretty poorly.

2434
02:10:51,080 --> 02:10:54,920
Speaker 2: I wish all the best for ridom Marino because she

2435
02:10:55,000 --> 02:10:57,040
Speaker 2: did not deserve all that bullshit, and all my nipples

2436
02:10:57,080 --> 02:10:57,839
Speaker 2: go to Riada Mareno.

2437
02:10:58,440 --> 02:11:03,800
Speaker 4: Yes of luck to her and her recovering from Marlon

2438
02:11:03,880 --> 02:11:09,240
Speaker 4: brand having section. Ultimately, this was about Marlon Branda's penis somehow.

2439
02:11:11,040 --> 02:11:11,880
Speaker 4: I mean, it really is.

2440
02:11:12,080 --> 02:11:14,000
Speaker 2: And that is a conversation I want to have with

2441
02:11:14,040 --> 02:11:17,440
Speaker 2: you guys offline. I will I can explain this please so.

2442
02:11:18,960 --> 02:11:20,720
Speaker 1: Well, Becca, thank you so much for joining us.

2443
02:11:20,960 --> 02:11:22,640
Speaker 2: Yes, thanks for having me.

2444
02:11:22,760 --> 02:11:25,200
Speaker 4: Yes, congratulations on the new show. We're so excited.

2445
02:11:25,480 --> 02:11:28,080
Speaker 1: Where can people listen? Plug away?

2446
02:11:28,520 --> 02:11:32,800
Speaker 2: My first episode will be out February third, past Tuesday,

2447
02:11:33,080 --> 02:11:36,640
Speaker 2: so listen, go check it out. This first episode is

2448
02:11:36,720 --> 02:11:38,760
Speaker 2: like very endearing to me because it's like a very

2449
02:11:38,800 --> 02:11:40,800
Speaker 2: intimate look at my life and my identity and like

2450
02:11:40,880 --> 02:11:44,880
Speaker 2: why I decided to do this project, Why how I

2451
02:11:44,960 --> 02:11:48,400
Speaker 2: came to be? Why am I questioning about my Puerto ricanness?

2452
02:11:48,800 --> 02:11:51,840
Speaker 2: So yeah, check it out. Give me feedback. If you

2453
02:11:52,040 --> 02:11:53,920
Speaker 2: are Puerto Rican, I want to hear from you. Email

2454
02:11:54,000 --> 02:11:55,920
Speaker 2: us at Welcome to a Barrio at gmail dot com.

2455
02:11:56,400 --> 02:11:59,000
Speaker 2: You can find me on all platforms. You listen to podcast.

2456
02:11:59,280 --> 02:12:01,680
Speaker 2: You can follow her in Instagram at Welcome to Our Boudio.

2457
02:12:02,640 --> 02:12:05,880
Speaker 2: My Instagram is bex p e ccs Ramos.

2458
02:12:05,960 --> 02:12:08,320
Speaker 1: And yeahy come back any time.

2459
02:12:08,360 --> 02:12:11,480
Speaker 4: Thank you so much for returning. I love when we

2460
02:12:11,600 --> 02:12:14,120
Speaker 4: have a two time guest and the movies could not

2461
02:12:14,200 --> 02:12:16,800
Speaker 4: be more different. So he has another curve ball.

2462
02:12:16,880 --> 02:12:20,000
Speaker 2: Next time I am high low Baby, I will also

2463
02:12:20,120 --> 02:12:23,080
Speaker 2: watch Horny, but also give you very thoughtful takes on

2464
02:12:23,160 --> 02:12:24,040
Speaker 2: Puerto Rican identity.

2465
02:12:26,200 --> 02:12:29,080
Speaker 4: Yes, she can do it all. And with that we

2466
02:12:29,320 --> 02:12:32,320
Speaker 4: are we are going to stand in the middle of

2467
02:12:32,360 --> 02:12:34,760
Speaker 4: a basketball court and really reflect on the events of

2468
02:12:34,800 --> 02:12:44,520
Speaker 4: the last three hours. Bye bye. The Bechdel Cast is

2469
02:12:44,560 --> 02:12:48,400
Speaker 4: a production of iHeartMedia, hosted and produced by Me, Jamie

2470
02:12:48,480 --> 02:12:49,240
Speaker 4: Loftus and.

2471
02:12:49,320 --> 02:12:54,120
Speaker 1: Me Caitlyn Dorante. The podcast is also produced by Sophie Lichtermann.

2472
02:12:53,960 --> 02:12:55,720
Speaker 4: And edited by Caitlyn Durrante.

2473
02:12:55,880 --> 02:12:59,480
Speaker 1: Ever heard of Them? That's me and our logo and

2474
02:12:59,640 --> 02:13:02,520
Speaker 1: merch and all of our artwork in fact are designed

2475
02:13:02,680 --> 02:13:04,800
Speaker 1: by Jamie Loftus, Ever heard of her?

2476
02:13:05,000 --> 02:13:08,000
Speaker 4: Oh my God? And our theme song, by the way,

2477
02:13:08,160 --> 02:13:09,920
Speaker 4: was composed by Mike Kaplan.

2478
02:13:09,800 --> 02:13:12,000
Speaker 1: With vocals by Katherine Voskrasinski.

2479
02:13:12,440 --> 02:13:16,920
Speaker 4: Iconic and especial thanks to the one and only Aristotle Acevedo.

2480
02:13:17,440 --> 02:13:21,200
Speaker 1: For more information, about the podcast, please visit Linktree Slash

2481
02:13:21,240 --> 02:13:22,040
Speaker 1: Spectelcast