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Speaker 2: All right, welcome to hoops tonight. You're at the Volume.
Speaker 2: Happy Tuesday, everybody. Hope all of you guys are having
Speaker 2: a great week. We got a very special guest today,
Speaker 2: senior NBA writer at Sports Illustrated, one of our colleagues
Speaker 2: here at the Volume as well, Mister Chris Mannix is
Speaker 2: going to be joining the show to break down the
Speaker 2: Boston Celtics and then talk a little bit about the
Speaker 2: league at large in season turn may where he's at
Speaker 2: with contenders and things along those lines. Chris, I appreciate
Speaker 2: you making time to hop on the show. This is
Speaker 2: where I want to start today. So obviously, when it
Speaker 2: comes to the Celtics, it's so annoying to talk about
Speaker 2: them because they're so good that, like it's difficult to
Speaker 2: frame the conversation properly from the standpoint of like they've
Speaker 2: been the second best team in the league this year
Speaker 2: by win percentage, and they've played by far the hardest schedule,
Speaker 2: So like they're clearly awesome, but then there are like
Speaker 2: these kind of discouraging moments where it's like they go
Speaker 2: and they fail a big test in Minnesota, or like
Speaker 2: last week against Indiana where their offense kind of stalls
Speaker 2: out down the stretch and like Tatum gets Haliburton on
Speaker 2: a couple of switches and he just waits for the
Speaker 2: clock to run out and takes a tough contested jumper,
Speaker 2: or he's isolating Aaron Nee Smith on a cleared side
Speaker 2: and he can't really quite get a great advantage and
Speaker 2: their offense kind of stalls out. They had a one
Speaker 2: twelve point five offensive rating and clutch time versus Indiana
Speaker 2: couldn't get a stop on the other end and they lost.
Speaker 2: So at this point, are you worried at all about
Speaker 2: the Celtics and the same late game offense issues that
Speaker 2: we've been hearing discussed over the last few years, And
Speaker 2: was Indiana concern at all within the lockerown?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I wouldn't use the word worried yet about the Celtics.
Speaker 1: I still think they are as good as it comes,
Speaker 1: with the top six in the NBA, and there is
Speaker 1: a lot to like about this team, right Like when
Speaker 1: they're on they're great offensively, they're great defensively.
Speaker 3: I think they're one of three teams in.
Speaker 1: The NBA that are top ten and offensive, defensive, and
Speaker 1: net rating. So I think there's just too much to
Speaker 1: like to be concerned. There are some things that absolutely
Speaker 1: need to be ironed out. You mentioned fourth quarter execution.
Speaker 3: From my vantage point, I'd like to see.
Speaker 1: Them run more offense through Jason Tatum in the fourth quarter.
Speaker 1: They have been kind of spread the wealth in some
Speaker 1: of those situations, and I think Tatum when it comes
Speaker 1: playoff time, he's going to be the guy, like you're
Speaker 1: gonna need him to take over games, and I'd like
Speaker 1: to see them more in that direction late in games
Speaker 1: where it's finding, you know, ways for him to isolate
Speaker 1: mismatches things like that.
Speaker 3: That's something I'd like to see the.
Speaker 1: Coaching staff get more creative with. One of the problems
Speaker 1: though they've had all seeds has been third quarters. Third
Speaker 1: quarter has been a disaster for Boston. They're one of
Speaker 1: the worst third quarter teams in the NBA. And Indiana
Speaker 1: was a great example of that. They had a seven
Speaker 1: point league going into the locker room at halftime of
Speaker 1: that game. They were down like eight or nine or
Speaker 1: whatever it was beginning the fourth quarter.
Speaker 3: That's not an aberration. That's been a trend.
Speaker 1: And you know when you see that, you think the
Speaker 1: energy isn't right coming out of the locker room, which
Speaker 1: has been a problem for this team in the past.
Speaker 1: And you think coaching adjustments, because that's when the coaching
Speaker 1: staff for both teams makes the adjustments that they're going
Speaker 1: to make, you know, for the second half. So that
Speaker 1: to me is a bigger area concern right now. The
Speaker 1: fact that this team has been so bad in third
Speaker 1: quarters during this season when you get to the playoffs,
Speaker 1: that's something that you have to be, you know, straight with.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I remember checking at during that third quarter against
Speaker 2: Indiana and I looked at I ended up looking at
Speaker 2: the just the third quarter net rating and I think
Speaker 2: they were like twenty ninth for the MBA or something
Speaker 2: like that. It was. It was really bad. I think
Speaker 2: I think the thing for me personally, that's kind of discouraging.
Speaker 2: And I understand the reason why because I've seen this
Speaker 2: with basketball teams a lot where like they're almost too
Speaker 2: good to the point where it makes them sometimes a
Speaker 2: little lazy on offense. And what I mean by that
Speaker 2: is like, like these guys work really hard on a
Speaker 2: lot of really tough shots, and so sometimes they find
Speaker 2: themselves in a situation where they can make a shot
Speaker 2: and they'll take it rather than being a little a
Speaker 2: little bit more deliberate to get a great shot. So
Speaker 2: to give you an example, like if I if I
Speaker 2: told you that you had a team that I think
Speaker 2: we I think you. Let me just ask you this
Speaker 2: straight up. Do you think the Celtics have the best
Speaker 2: combination of ball handling, shooting, and passing in the NBA?
Speaker 2: I mean, like down the roster and just total number
Speaker 2: of guys that are skilled off.
Speaker 1: ENSI point yeah, because you at least the top six
Speaker 1: that they're playing, and we can get into seven to eight,
Speaker 1: which I think is a point of concern for this team.
Speaker 3: At least top six.
Speaker 1: You know, whether it's big or small, they're all good
Speaker 1: ball handlers, playmakers, three point shooters.
Speaker 3: So yeah, I would say the answer is yes.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And see that's what's kind of discouraging to me
Speaker 2: that group should be better than seventh in offensive rating,
Speaker 2: And there's a couple of specific things that stand out
Speaker 2: to me. For one, they take a ton of pull
Speaker 2: up jump shots. They take twenty one of them a game,
Speaker 2: which is eighth in the NBA, yet they only get
Speaker 2: zero point nine to three points per shot, which is
Speaker 2: seventeenth in the NBA for that shot type. Jason Tatum
Speaker 2: and Jaylen Brown alone take thirteen pull up jump shots
Speaker 2: a game, and both of them are not nearly as
Speaker 2: efficient on that shot for what you would like, like
Speaker 2: this is not a Tyrese Haliburton pull up jump shot
Speaker 2: or a Steph Curry pull up jump shot where you're
Speaker 2: getting well over a point per possession. Then deeper down
Speaker 2: the list of concern for me, that kind of willingness
Speaker 2: for both of those guys to kind of settle at
Speaker 2: the start of possessions has led them to be twenty
Speaker 2: third in assists per one hundred possessions. And so my
Speaker 2: thing is, like, I think the idealized version of this
Speaker 2: team is one that is a little bit more predicated
Speaker 2: on ball movement, rim pressure through slashing and making really
Speaker 2: good rim decisions for wide open threes and layups at
Speaker 2: the rims because at this point, Like, I think if
Speaker 2: this team's gonna win the title, they have to be
Speaker 2: better offensively than they have been to this point. Would
Speaker 2: you agree?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 1: To expand on that, I think at times they get
Speaker 1: way too bog down in three point shooting. I mean,
Speaker 1: the pull up jump shots are bad for sure, but
Speaker 1: they are the definition of live by the three and
Speaker 1: die by the three.
Speaker 3: I mean this year they're.
Speaker 1: Sixteen and one this season when they're shooting forty three
Speaker 1: and a half percent, are better from three point range
Speaker 1: on one four when they're shooting anything less than that.
Speaker 3: So you know, the way that they leaned.
Speaker 1: In to the three point shooting this year really going
Speaker 1: full Missoula ball. Like you know, last year, they still
Speaker 1: had an offense or a team that was built to
Speaker 1: play a system that em Udoka was comfortable with. This
Speaker 1: year because of what we saw at the end of
Speaker 1: last year where Joe Mizula was just encouraging threes at
Speaker 1: all times of the game, they've leaned all the way
Speaker 1: into that with porzingis now getting a lot of minutes
Speaker 1: at that center position. So you know, I think they
Speaker 1: they do have some concerns about shot selection, whether it
Speaker 1: is those pull up jump shots, or just their tendency
Speaker 1: to get you know, way too committed to three point
Speaker 1: shots to will themselves back into games.
Speaker 2: And quick threes too, like, like they take a lot
Speaker 2: of threes that are like good not great threes, if
Speaker 2: that makes sense, And like, I think that reflects in
Speaker 2: I think it reflects in their percentage too, because we
Speaker 2: talked about this earlier and you and I agree, Like
Speaker 2: I think I think Derek White's an excellent three point shooter,
Speaker 2: Jason Tatum's an excellent three point shooter, Jalen Brown is
Speaker 2: an excellent three point shooter. But they kind of ram
Speaker 2: their own percentages down with that shot selection. As a team,
Speaker 2: they're eighteenth in percentage, which really shouldn't be the case
Speaker 2: for the level of talent that they have on that roster.
Speaker 2: And like specifically at the end of games, and you
Speaker 2: had mentioned this, and I one hundred percent agree with you,
Speaker 2: the running the offense more through Tatum because they're thirteenth
Speaker 2: in clutch offensive rating, And that was another thing that
Speaker 2: popped up against Indiana, like we mentioned earlier, And one
Speaker 2: of the things I noticed down the stretch that Indiana
Speaker 2: game is they kept trying to get switches off to
Speaker 2: get Tatum off of Nie Smith, but they were using
Speaker 2: him as the screener, and so one of the things
Speaker 2: that Nie Smith was able to do is just hug
Speaker 2: up on Tatum, and they know Derek White's looking to
Speaker 2: pass because Derek White wants to get the ball back
Speaker 2: to Tatum, and so then all of a sudden it
Speaker 2: would just end up with Nie Smith on Tatum again,
Speaker 2: and then he'd be taking some tough, contested long jump shot.
Speaker 2: One of the things I'd like to see him do
Speaker 2: is put Tatum on the ball and have Derek White
Speaker 2: set the screen, because then in that situation, if they
Speaker 2: if they don't hedge or show or switch in any way,
Speaker 2: shape or form, Tatum can get downhill and that's where
Speaker 2: his passing ability can become an advantage. And then if
Speaker 2: for whatever reason, they both show on him, now Derek
Speaker 2: White could be wide open and it's just they're going
Speaker 2: to overreact to Tatum and both ends of that action,
Speaker 2: and so it doesn't make sense for him to not
Speaker 2: have the ball. And then also, and I'm sure you'd
Speaker 2: agree with this, but I think Porzingis being out there
Speaker 2: would help a lot, because in those pick and pop situations,
Speaker 2: they're just going to be in a drop coverage waiting
Speaker 2: for Tatum at the rim, and Porzingis is going to
Speaker 2: get wide open catches at the top of the key
Speaker 2: where he can kind of get the defense into rotation better.
Speaker 2: And it's worth mentioning Porzingis has played in just four
Speaker 2: hundred and eighty three out of one and eighteen minutes
Speaker 2: this year, and he's been one of their best on
Speaker 2: off guys. Like, if you look at the on off numbers,
Speaker 2: two of the guys that stand out pretty quickly are
Speaker 2: Derek White and Chris Hoops Porzingis. And it makes sense
Speaker 2: to me because Porzingis is such a great entry point
Speaker 2: for them offensively, and then Derek White is like their
Speaker 2: most gifted like all around offense of guard, you know,
Speaker 2: with his ability to pass and to shoot the ball.
Speaker 2: But like, I think you hit the nail on the head,
Speaker 2: like they absolutely have to revamp some things with their
Speaker 2: late game offense and lean on Tatum more, if for
Speaker 2: no other reason than the reps that he needs, yeah
Speaker 2: to be to be able to handle that down the line. Overall,
Speaker 2: with Jason Tatum's development, like here, I guess he turns
Speaker 2: twenty six in March, so we're getting into like I
Speaker 2: think you could comfortably say he's in his prime, right, So, like,
Speaker 2: where are you at overall with his development at this time?
Speaker 1: I think it's been excellent that you know, look, you
Speaker 1: see strides that Tatum is making every single year. You
Speaker 1: look at this year, he's shooting something like seventy four
Speaker 1: percent at shots at the rim. That's a great number
Speaker 1: for Jason Tatum. His mid range game, I believe is
Speaker 1: still right around fifty percent. That's a great number for
Speaker 1: Jason Tatum. He's spokes as above sixty percent on drive
Speaker 1: to the basket. That was a real point of emphasis
Speaker 1: for Jason Tatum and the people around him this offseason.
Speaker 1: He shot I think thirty eight percent on drives during
Speaker 1: the two than twenty two playoffs or they made that
Speaker 1: run to the finals. After that, they were locked in
Speaker 1: on trying to improve that part of his game. The
Speaker 1: fact he's above sixty percent, which is like Halliburton territory,
Speaker 1: Lebron James territory, that speaks volumes about Jason Tatum's development
Speaker 1: as a player. I mean the critique of Tatum that
Speaker 1: I've seen recently, and you can go back to that
Speaker 1: Indiana game when he did get the matchups that he wont,
Speaker 1: specifically on Halliburn, they won. Him defended by Halliburn in
Speaker 1: the first half, he was taken to the basket.
Speaker 3: The second half he was pulling up for three.
Speaker 1: You're doing Tyres Haliburt in a favor if you're taking
Speaker 1: a half contested three point jumps shot in a situation
Speaker 1: like that, I want to see him going to the basket,
Speaker 1: getting to the free throw line, which has done a
Speaker 1: nice job of at this year. You know that to
Speaker 1: me is the strength of Jason Tatum's game right now.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he has improved so much at the rim, it's ridiculous,
Speaker 2: like it's night and day from where he was a
Speaker 2: couple of years ago. The post up stuff has been
Speaker 2: really interesting. There have been eighteen players this year that
Speaker 2: have run at least seventy five post steps. His one
Speaker 2: point one points per possession including passes ranks fourth out.
Speaker 1: That was an Another better factis for him this offseason,
Speaker 1: like they they saw their weaknesses, you know, him and
Speaker 1: the guys around him, Drew Handlin, his longtime trainer, they
Speaker 1: saw these weaknesses and and they were determined to fix them.
Speaker 1: And the post ops was something that they wanted to
Speaker 1: get better at and proving the mid range percentage with something.
Speaker 3: They want to get better that. And you know those
Speaker 3: drives to the basket.
Speaker 1: I mean Jason Tatum, you know, the last couple of
Speaker 1: years has grown into his man strength. They want him
Speaker 1: using that to get to the rim, get to the
Speaker 1: free throw line, and to score at a high percentage.
Speaker 1: And he's doing that this season.
Speaker 2: Well, it's it's he's gonna need that when they get
Speaker 2: to the postseason. That that was That's been one of
Speaker 2: the things specifically, especially as he's gotten so much stronger.
Speaker 2: It's just gonna be something that's that he can lean
Speaker 2: on and like like that. That's that's what's crazy. Like
Speaker 2: when you're looking at those post up guys like it's
Speaker 2: Jokic number one, Siakam who's been excellent this year in
Speaker 2: the post, Anthony Davis, and then Tatum, Like it's kind
Speaker 2: of weird to even see his name in those types
Speaker 2: of lists. I would say, Oh, one other wild stat
Speaker 2: about Tatum in the post, when he shoots out of
Speaker 2: the post, he draws a foul twenty nine percent of
Speaker 2: the time.
Speaker 1: That is a look they think that he can uh
Speaker 1: the one you know, Eventually, they believe that Tatum's ability
Speaker 1: to be a creator out of that spot is going
Speaker 1: to be valuable for them because double teams are going
Speaker 1: to have to come if he's scoring at an.
Speaker 3: Efficient rate out of that post.
Speaker 1: And they believe he's got it in him to be
Speaker 1: a solid playmaker in those types of situations which unlock
Speaker 1: other things within that offense.
Speaker 2: And that specifically was what he did at the end
Speaker 2: of the Mining Heat series that kind of turned things
Speaker 2: around for them. It was cleared side post ups and
Speaker 2: ISOs where basically it simplifies his reads and his ability
Speaker 2: to see the floor and kind of allows him to
Speaker 2: use his strength and like, honestly the one because you
Speaker 2: hit the rim finishing. His assists are down a little bit,
Speaker 2: but I think that more has to do with Drew
Speaker 2: Holliday come in and just more diversity of shot creation
Speaker 2: in general with the team. Like he's just not hell
Speaker 2: Leo centric, so he's not going to put up six
Speaker 2: seven assist a game. I still think Tatum's a very
Speaker 2: gifted passer, but like all of this good there, the
Speaker 2: one thing is again the pull up jump shot, which
Speaker 2: is crazy because to start the year he was red hot,
Speaker 2: like he was making everything, but he's cooled way off.
Speaker 2: He's at forty three percent in effective field goal percentage
Speaker 2: on pull up jump shots. That's zero point eighty six
Speaker 2: points per shot. He was forty two percent last year.
Speaker 2: He's taken seven of them a game. He's in the
Speaker 2: thirty sixth percentile for his volume around the league. So
Speaker 2: for me, like again, it's really this simple. Tatum's good
Speaker 2: is now good enough to do the job and to
Speaker 2: get this team over the top. It's can he, as
Speaker 2: a matter of discipline, kind of cut out some of
Speaker 2: the bad, which is like, will he have the discipline
Speaker 2: in a game five in Indiana to to has Haliburton
Speaker 2: on a switch with a cleared side to rip through
Speaker 2: to the baseline, turn his back and back him down
Speaker 2: and make a powerful move towards the basket, or draw
Speaker 2: a double team and make a playout of it, Like
Speaker 2: will he have that level of discipline? Because we know
Speaker 2: he can, it's just a question of whether or not
Speaker 2: he will. But before we move on to the rest
Speaker 2: to some big picture stuff, I wanted to kind of
Speaker 2: get your pulse on the Drew and Christop's acquisition so far.
Speaker 2: Let's start with Drew Holliday. How do you think his
Speaker 2: fits spend so far with the Celtics through four?
Speaker 3: Really good? Look.
Speaker 1: His shooting numbers continue to concern me because it's something
Speaker 1: of a continuation of a trend. Like his last year
Speaker 1: in Milwaukee, the numbers were worse than the year before.
Speaker 2: This year.
Speaker 1: I don't know exactly what they are right now, but
Speaker 1: you know, last time I checked, they were trending downward,
Speaker 1: and that is obviously something you want to watch as
Speaker 1: the season goes on. But if you're around that team,
Speaker 1: you know, they just can't stop singing his praises, like
Speaker 1: just what he brings defensively.
Speaker 3: His versatility.
Speaker 1: I mean, he's defending power forwards most nights, Like you
Speaker 1: can put him. You know, it's kind of a cliche
Speaker 1: to go you can guard it, you can put a
Speaker 1: guy on one to five, but that's exactly what they're doing.
Speaker 1: You're seeing him on you know, seven footers, you're seeing
Speaker 1: him on point guards. So you know, that kind of
Speaker 1: versatility defensively has been invaluable.
Speaker 3: The same thing with Porzingis.
Speaker 1: Like my concern with Porzingis was not his production, because
Speaker 1: I did believe the way Boston moved the ball that
Speaker 1: he would get opportunities. Maybe not the same volume of
Speaker 1: opportunities he got last year in Washington, but he would
Speaker 1: get opportunities and clean looks at the basket.
Speaker 3: My concern has only been staying on the floor.
Speaker 1: And look, he's got the calf injury that's lingering right now.
Speaker 3: Hopefully you know, you can put that behind him.
Speaker 1: But this is a guy it's only played what sixty
Speaker 1: plus games three times in his NBA career. You know
Speaker 1: that worries me. Until he proves he can stay out
Speaker 1: there on the floor, that's going to be a concern
Speaker 1: for me. So I think Porzingis and and Holiday have
Speaker 1: been exactly what this team needed. What what they worries
Speaker 1: me about this team when they get.
Speaker 3: To the playoffs.
Speaker 1: And I said this at the start of the season,
Speaker 1: I feel like the Celtics were only six and a
Speaker 1: half guys deep, and I use Peyton Pritcher's kind of
Speaker 1: a half because I didn't know exactly what they were
Speaker 1: going to be able to get from. I still think
Speaker 1: that with the Celtics. Ritcherck has been wildly inconsistent. Uh,
Speaker 1: Sam Houser shooting the lights out of the ball, But
Speaker 1: you know what, Sam Houser shot the lights out of
Speaker 1: the ball first half of last season.
Speaker 2: Two.
Speaker 1: I need to see it over a full season before
Speaker 1: I believe he's gonna do it in the playoffs. The
Speaker 1: rest of those guys, like you know, Joe Missoula, is
Speaker 1: kind of mixing matches guys that are in that that rotation.
Speaker 3: Nobody's really stuck as of yet.
Speaker 1: Look, I understand you tighten your rotation in the playoffs,
Speaker 1: but if you really have six guys that you trust,
Speaker 1: that that's that worries me when you get into a
Speaker 1: series against the team that's probably gonna be able to
Speaker 1: play seven or eight.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the the Houser thing's been interesting because, like I
Speaker 2: actually think he's been pretty solid on defense too.
Speaker 1: Like see that and I see no man like the
Speaker 1: team still hunt him like they still every ty game
Speaker 1: I see still hunted him down.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I get that the metrics say has been a little
Speaker 1: bit better, But what I see teams like trying to
Speaker 1: get him on switches all the time and and attacking
Speaker 1: going through him. It just look, I just everything with
Speaker 1: the Celtics. You have to view through the lens of
Speaker 1: a deep playoff run. And can you play Sam Hauser
Speaker 1: against Milwaukee in a second or third round series. I'm
Speaker 1: not yet convinced of it. I mean, look, I was
Speaker 1: on the Sam Hauser train last year. I mean I
Speaker 1: was around this time of year calling Tony Bennett down
Speaker 1: to Virginia, writing a glossy profile on Sam Hauser.
Speaker 3: And then he kind of fell off a cliff.
Speaker 1: The shot stopped falling, the defense wasn't there, and he
Speaker 1: was unplayable for that team in the postseason.
Speaker 3: Has that dramatically changed?
Speaker 1: Is there a significant difference in the Sam Hauser of
Speaker 1: this year than there was last year? Maybe there is,
Speaker 1: but you know, after kind of being a little bit
Speaker 1: burned on it, you know, after the start of last season,
Speaker 1: I need to see more of it before I'm gonna
Speaker 1: buy it.
Speaker 2: I have this issue with Laker fans too, where it's
Speaker 2: like there's a difference between like an exciting story, like oh,
Speaker 2: Max Christy is showing some flashes of you know, and
Speaker 2: it's like, can this dude play two shifts in the
Speaker 2: Western Conference Finals? So like it's a totally different ballgame
Speaker 2: when you get to that point. And I would agree
Speaker 2: with Sam Hauser, like it's an exciting story. He's got
Speaker 2: like he kind of fits that mold of like the
Speaker 2: dunkin Robinson Michael Porter Junior, like elite week side shooter
Speaker 2: that's got good length that could theoretically help and help
Speaker 2: defense situations and defensive rebounding, but it's like, do you
Speaker 2: trust him in that spot? I don't know. I think
Speaker 2: Drew's been interesting because it's it's kind of classic Drew,
Speaker 2: where like when he sticks to what he's good at,
Speaker 2: he's awesome. Like off ball, he's been excellent. He's been
Speaker 2: converting spot up possessions at an extremely high rate, almost
Speaker 2: one point three points per possession. Obviously you mentioned the
Speaker 2: defensive stuff, not just power forwards but centers as well,
Speaker 2: Like he's doing everything for them defensively. It's his on
Speaker 2: ball stuff where like he can just go a little
Speaker 2: rogue sometimes and he hasn't been super efficient in those situations.
Speaker 2: I think Chrisops Sports thinkas has been like like about
Speaker 2: as perfect a fit as you could possibly imagine. They
Speaker 2: are almost six points better per one hundred possessions with
Speaker 2: him on the floor versus off. He's been one of
Speaker 2: the best role men in the league this year one
Speaker 2: point three to one points per roleman possession. That's fifth
Speaker 2: out of twenty three players to run at least fifty possessions.
Speaker 2: These post up stats are wild one point six y
Speaker 2: four points per post up including passes on pretty decent volume.
Speaker 2: That's ninety eight percentile. And he really hasn't even shot
Speaker 2: the ball that well yet. Last year with the Wizards,
Speaker 2: a Porzingis jump shot was worth one point one points.
Speaker 2: This year it's been worth zero point nine to eight,
Speaker 2: So I think he could even go up a level
Speaker 2: as a shooter. He's actually held up really well defensively,
Speaker 2: not just in his drop coverages, but he's done really
Speaker 2: good on switches. He's been an excellent switch defender this year.
Speaker 2: I think the Kristaps Porzingis thing has been a home run.
Speaker 2: To your point about the debt, like they're in that
Speaker 2: weird spot now where it's like, if you could guarantee
Speaker 2: me all of those top six guys will be like
Speaker 2: ready to go, then I think they're fine, but there's
Speaker 2: very little margin for error there, and I would imagine
Speaker 2: the front office feels that way as well. So this
Speaker 2: is the before we get to the big picture. My
Speaker 2: last question I want to ask you is do you
Speaker 2: think the Celtics will be active around the deadline at all?
Speaker 2: Or do you think this is a buyout team, Like
Speaker 2: what do you look, what do you think in terms
Speaker 2: of in season changes to the roster.
Speaker 3: I think he'll be act.
Speaker 1: I believe they still have that Grant Williams trade exception
Speaker 1: that they can use, some other you know, salary cap
Speaker 1: vehicles that they can use.
Speaker 3: They still have some draft capital that they can deal.
Speaker 1: And one thing we've learned about Brad Stevens over the
Speaker 1: last few years that he is a chips all in
Speaker 1: kind of guy. With some of the moves he's made
Speaker 1: the last two seasons, he has not been shy about
Speaker 1: upgrading the roster, and it does sound you know, my
Speaker 1: sense of what Celtics ownership has said to Brad Stevens
Speaker 1: is that, like, if you can guarantee that the player
Speaker 1: we're acquiring is going to help us win at a
Speaker 1: higher level, we'll pay whatever you need. It's guys that
Speaker 1: they acquire that wind up not turning out that way
Speaker 1: that irritate the ownership in Boston, which is understandable of course.
Speaker 3: So yeah, I think they'll be active.
Speaker 1: You know, the buyout market, it always just the hype
Speaker 1: has never worked matches the substance. Remember last year It's
Speaker 1: like Terrence Ross is going to be this great signing.
Speaker 1: Everybody wants Terrence Ross, Dallas wants, the Phoenix wants them.
Speaker 3: Terrence Ross plays like, you.
Speaker 1: Know, like ten minutes of the postseason, like it did
Speaker 1: you never you never really get it. Plus this year,
Speaker 1: with the buyout market, there's like thirteen teams in the
Speaker 1: West that are going to try to make a play
Speaker 1: and run, you know, probably ten or eleven in the East,
Speaker 1: maybe twelve. You're not going to get a robust buyout
Speaker 1: market when you have that many teams that could be
Speaker 1: competing for a playoff or a play in spot. So
Speaker 1: I think their focus is going to be more on
Speaker 1: the trade market to try to get one more guy
Speaker 1: that is playable in the postseason, not somebody that can
Speaker 1: give them regular season minutes.
Speaker 3: They've got those guys.
Speaker 1: They can play you know, Deli Blanton, they can play
Speaker 1: Oh Shape or Set. You can play Sam House, you
Speaker 1: can play Peyton Pritchell. You can go into your bench
Speaker 1: for Luke Cornette for regular season minutes. Another guy that
Speaker 1: couldn't play in the playoffs last year, you can go
Speaker 1: into your bench for that. But you need a guy
Speaker 1: that you could trust for fifteen ish minutes per game
Speaker 1: in the playoffs that I think is the one piece
Speaker 1: the Celtics are missing right now.
Speaker 2: Yeah, during the regular season. That's one of the huge
Speaker 2: benefits of having those top six guys be so damn good,
Speaker 2: is like you can take any two of them and
Speaker 2: put three league average rotation into the bench guys with them,
Speaker 2: and they're probably going to be a pretty good lineup.
Speaker 2: Because those top two are two of the top fifty
Speaker 2: or sixty players in the NBA. It's a great luxury
Speaker 2: for this team. But to your point, you can't get
Speaker 2: away with that lineup in Game five at the Eastern
Speaker 2: Conference Finals, which is kind of the point that you're
Speaker 2: trying to make. So let me ask you this, then,
Speaker 2: if you had to pick a specific archetype of player
Speaker 2: that they would be targeting, what would it be?
Speaker 1: Oh man, you know I would say that, well, it's twofold, right.
Speaker 1: I would want a scoring guard that can play multiple positions,
Speaker 1: that can give you more than what Peyton Pritchard is
Speaker 1: giving you right now, something like what Malcolm brog did
Speaker 1: was for them last season and before I get injured
Speaker 1: at the very end, Malcolm Brogden had a phenomenal year
Speaker 1: in Boston, so.
Speaker 3: They need something like that.
Speaker 1: I'm also a little concerned learned about that front court depth,
Speaker 1: because to get to the finals, you're probably going to
Speaker 1: have to go through a Milwaukee, Philadelphia, maybe even in
Speaker 1: New York, which has got great size and strength in
Speaker 1: that front court, among some of the other teams that
Speaker 1: are out there.
Speaker 3: Al Horford in.
Speaker 1: June, I think is going to be what thirty eight
Speaker 1: is he like, he's he's getting up there in age
Speaker 1: and porzingis you know, look, he's been excellent, but an
Speaker 1: injury here followed trouble there, and all of a sudden,
Speaker 1: you're dusting off Luke Cornett to play real minutes and and.
Speaker 3: And that's that's a lot to ask.
Speaker 1: To have Luke Cornette matching up with like bam Adebayo
Speaker 1: in real minutes or against any one of the three
Speaker 1: headed big man monster in Milwaukee with Giannis, Bobby Portis
Speaker 1: and Brook Lopez. That to me is something that's concerned. Look,
Speaker 1: the Celtics share that concern. I mean, it was just
Speaker 1: a couple of years ago that the Celtics were, you know,
Speaker 1: all in on Yaka Perle. You know, when Peerle was
Speaker 1: with the Spurs like they were willing to go and
Speaker 1: give up a first round pick when Pearle was in
Speaker 1: the last year of his contract because they knew they
Speaker 1: needed frontcore depth going into the playoffs.
Speaker 3: And that was on a team that.
Speaker 1: Still had Grant Williams and had more depth than younger depth,
Speaker 1: and Rob Williams was still there. So, you know, one
Speaker 1: of those two things I think should be the part.
Speaker 1: They're good on the wing. You know, Tatum and Brown
Speaker 1: gonna play thirty eight minutes a night and they can
Speaker 1: find you can deal with any lack of depth on
Speaker 1: the bench there, but upfront, muscle upfront, a scoring guard
Speaker 1: in the backcourt.
Speaker 3: Those are the two things I'd look at.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I agree with you on both counts.
Speaker 2: Like one of the beautiful things about Derek White and
Speaker 2: Drew Holidays they both can functionally operate as wings as
Speaker 2: well because of what they can do in terms of
Speaker 2: their strength for Drew Holliday and length for Derek White.
Speaker 2: I think, yeah, like a reliable version of that Pritchard archetype.
Speaker 2: And then it's so hard to even tell what the
Speaker 2: center market's gonna look like this year at the deadline,
Speaker 2: just because you haven't heard too many names thrown out there,
Speaker 2: a Yakapurnle. It could be one of the guys that's
Speaker 2: available again, and we'll have to see zooming out a
Speaker 2: little bit as we look at the big picture. Where
Speaker 2: do you like? So I have like an inner circle
Speaker 2: group of contenders seven teams for me, which basically Denver, Boston, Lakers, Bucks,
Speaker 2: the Timberwolf Sons, and then I still kind of like
Speaker 2: just dangling on by a thread. I have the Warriors
Speaker 2: just because if they make the right trade you could
Speaker 2: put you know, like if they got Siakam or something
Speaker 2: like that, you'd be like, you have to take them seriously. So,
Speaker 2: where what does your top tier of contenders look like
Speaker 2: right now? And where do you have to sell?
Speaker 1: Oh, they're in that top tier. I mean, if you're
Speaker 1: going to make an elite tier, you'd probably put Denver
Speaker 1: from the West in that group, and then Milwaukee and Boston. Look,
Speaker 1: I'm a huge fan of what Philadelphia is doing, but
Speaker 1: I'm gonna need to see more of that in the playoffs.
Speaker 1: They're right there and like cut below in terms of
Speaker 1: finals teams that i'd trust, But you know those you know,
Speaker 1: Boston's right there, you know in that mix. You know,
Speaker 1: Milwaukee's still very much a work in progress, but that's
Speaker 1: the kind of team I think is going to get better,
Speaker 1: you know, as Chris Middleton gets more time and more reps,
Speaker 1: As you know, Damian Lillard gets more and more comfortable
Speaker 1: in that offense, as he and Giannis get better and
Speaker 1: more proficient on the pick and roll. So I would
Speaker 1: still put Milwaukee in that tier out West. To me,
Speaker 1: it's only Denver right now. I mean the Clippers the
Speaker 1: last twelve games or nine and three, so I'm keeping
Speaker 1: my eye on them.
Speaker 3: You know, how they play. They've been top five in.
Speaker 1: Defensive efficiency during these last twelve games. So while the
Speaker 1: offense in LA is sorting itself out, the Clippers right
Speaker 1: now are playing great defense, especially on the wings. So
Speaker 1: they're a team I'm keep an eye on. But for
Speaker 1: right now, it's kind of Denver and everybody else in
Speaker 1: the Western Conference.
Speaker 2: Let's see men on the Bucks for a second. I
Speaker 2: thought that Pacers game was really concerning just from the
Speaker 2: standpoint of like they didn't even make Caliburton feel uncomfortable.
Speaker 2: And I tend to think that the point of attack
Speaker 2: stuff that we talked about before the season with them,
Speaker 2: we might have underslt that a little bit. And I
Speaker 2: didn't even like particularly the way the Celtics Bucks matchup
Speaker 2: looked like a few What was that about a month
Speaker 2: ago where it just was so obvious that Boston can
Speaker 2: make Dame work so much harder than Damon Maleik could
Speaker 2: make the Boston guards work. And I'm I'm wondering because
Speaker 2: like I've actually so I have I'm with you in
Speaker 2: the sense that I have Denver and Boston in my
Speaker 2: tier of like seven, I have Denver and Boston is
Speaker 2: like the clear top two, and then like a small gap.
Speaker 2: And then I actually after last week put the Lakers
Speaker 2: above the Bucks just because I think that physically the
Speaker 2: Bucks have some major issues on the perimeter that are
Speaker 2: going to be a problem down the line. Are you
Speaker 2: am I.
Speaker 1: Overplaying that a little bit in your opinion, or because
Speaker 1: I mean I like Malik Beasley. I don't know if
Speaker 1: Malik Beasley is a starting two guard on a finals
Speaker 1: team and I worry.
Speaker 3: About how much they're playing him.
Speaker 1: I worry about Middleton holding up, you know, over the
Speaker 1: the course of a season, because he's really struggled with
Speaker 1: that over the last couple of years. That Pacers loss
Speaker 1: was concerning, no question about it, especially when you have
Speaker 1: got you know, a player like Bobby port Is blowing
Speaker 1: up a little bit in the locker room, you know
Speaker 1: afterwards and pointing the finger in part at Adrian Griffin.
Speaker 1: And Adrian Griffin to me is a wild card and
Speaker 1: all this. I mean, we spent all last year talking
Speaker 1: about Joe Miszula. You know, what kind of factor is
Speaker 1: he going to be in the Celtics post's success. Well, well,
Speaker 1: you know, twenty ish games in you have some of
Speaker 1: the same questions about Adrian Griffin. And I love Griff
Speaker 1: as an assistant coach. I love that he got the
Speaker 1: opportunity to be the head coach. But you know how
Speaker 1: the Sea, how the preseason started with Terry Stotts kind
Speaker 1: of getting broomed out of there pretty early. That was
Speaker 1: a concern for me because Terry Stotts was like the
Speaker 1: offensive czar of that team. You've watched this, They've changed
Speaker 1: their defenses up a few times, you know, you know,
Speaker 1: on the fly, they went from you know, doing kind
Speaker 1: of that trapping pressure defense to going back that Budenolzer
Speaker 1: esque dropped coverage. So they're kind of you know, experimenting,
Speaker 1: they're a work in progress right now.
Speaker 3: So, yeah, there are.
Speaker 1: Some some legitimate concerns about Milwaukee. I just maybe it's
Speaker 1: blind faith that I'm putting in like Yiannis to figure
Speaker 1: it out, Dame, who's still electric, to figure it out
Speaker 1: that front court, to be enough of a deterrent at
Speaker 1: the rim offensively to overcome the obvious defensive problems that
Speaker 1: they have on the perimeter. Maybe I'm putting too much
Speaker 1: blind faith in some of the marquee guys on the roster,
Speaker 1: but I just believe when it comes to, you know,
Speaker 1: April and May, this team's gonna be right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's tough because the other thing is Dame's not
Speaker 2: playing as well as he's capable of. He's like he's
Speaker 2: he had another horrible shooting night last night. He's like
Speaker 2: a healthy he's a healthy five percent in effective field
Speaker 2: goal percentage, down from what he was last year. I
Speaker 2: think there you saw a little bit at the end
Speaker 2: of the Pacers game too, like some like who's who
Speaker 2: should run the show here kind of thing going on
Speaker 2: where they're all kind of looking at each other and
Speaker 2: they don't know what to do. So I definitely think
Speaker 2: some of that stuff's gonna get worked out. But I
Speaker 2: feel the same way about the Bucks that I do
Speaker 2: with the Lakers, which is like, like, yeah, Moleik Beasley
Speaker 2: shooting the shit out of the ball this year, Like
Speaker 2: whatever the Laker curse was, forget about that. Like he's
Speaker 2: making shots, all this stuff is great, but it's like,
Speaker 2: can he be the starting to on a championship team?
Speaker 2: Same thing with the Lakers, it's like, oh, Cam Reddish
Speaker 2: like career resuscitation, excellent point of attack defense, But it's
Speaker 2: like like I just think of a Western Conference Finals
Speaker 2: game and I just think of Michael Porter Junior completely
Speaker 2: ignoring Cam Reddish in the corner and basically just wrecking
Speaker 2: havoc as a six to ten athlete around the rim,
Speaker 2: and like that being a problem. And so for both
Speaker 2: of those teams, I view them as like, if they
Speaker 2: make the right deal at the deadline and shore up
Speaker 2: that specific position to a better version of that player,
Speaker 2: I put them on the same tier with Boston and Denver.
Speaker 2: But until that point, it's just too much of a
Speaker 2: question mark, what did you are you? Are you buying
Speaker 2: the Minnesota Timberwolves at all? They're the best team in
Speaker 2: the league to this point, but they're about to play
Speaker 2: just an absolutely brutal month of basketball, So who knows
Speaker 2: what it'll look like when we get into a month
Speaker 2: from now. But like, they've demonstrated a lot of high
Speaker 2: end potential this year. Are you buying them or do
Speaker 2: you think it's feth fools?
Speaker 1: You're right about the schedule, what's it? Fifteen straight games
Speaker 1: now against teams with a five hundred record or better
Speaker 1: coming up on that.
Speaker 2: Schedule, and most of them on the road too.
Speaker 1: So we are going to learn a lot about Minnesota
Speaker 1: over this next month. I want to buy Minnesota, like
Speaker 1: I really do, because, like Mike Conley is one of
Speaker 1: the most likable guys in the NBA, and I love
Speaker 1: the surge he's having this year. Anthony Edwards is one
Speaker 1: of those guys that talks the talk and walks the walk,
Speaker 1: or at least he's doing it in the first half
Speaker 1: of this season. I love their versatility that they have
Speaker 1: defensively with Edwards and Jaden McDaniels and some of those guys.
Speaker 1: And look, I love that Rudy Gobert and Karl Anthony
Speaker 1: Towns have found a way to make it work. They've
Speaker 1: had ten games this season where both of these guys
Speaker 1: have had double doubles. That's more than any duo has
Speaker 1: had in the same game during during this season.
Speaker 3: So there's promising signs.
Speaker 1: But you know, one thing a coach said to me before,
Speaker 1: really right around the time that Gobert got traded, it
Speaker 1: was reiterated to me before the start of this season,
Speaker 1: is that at some point Chris Finch may be faced
Speaker 1: with a decision where his best playoff lineup, his best
Speaker 1: closing playoff lineup will probably be one where either Carl
Speaker 1: Towns or Rudy Gobert is on the floor and not both.
Speaker 1: And does Chris Finch have it in him to sit
Speaker 1: like a thirty plus million dollar player on the bench
Speaker 1: for the final six minutes of that game? And look,
Speaker 1: I think Chris Finch has done an incredible job because
Speaker 1: I was one of the people that were like wondering
Speaker 1: would Tim Conley fire him at the end of last season?
Speaker 1: Comes back this year. It has really been a big
Speaker 1: part of their success. But I still need to see that.
Speaker 1: I still need to see if these two guys Towns
Speaker 1: and Gobert can play together in late game situations not
Speaker 1: be exploited by smart teams that have to only have
Speaker 1: to drill down on them for one series, So it's
Speaker 1: kind of a punt on that question. But like I want,
Speaker 1: I want to believe in Minnesota because I love the story,
Speaker 1: I love the way they've revived, you know, this this
Speaker 1: team and this franchise after just a terrible season last year.
Speaker 1: But I still need to see more from the gobear
Speaker 1: Towns front court before I make any conclusions.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's matchup specific because like they're to me,
Speaker 2: they're very similar to the Lakers in the sense that,
Speaker 2: like they have this incredible combination of like excellent rimp protector,
Speaker 2: excellent point of attack defenders, which was weird because we
Speaker 2: didn't expect that with the Lakers. This year, just camerd
Speaker 2: has kind of appeared out of nowhere and kind of
Speaker 2: shored up that. And then the lineup configuration piece going
Speaker 2: away from two skill guards to one skill guard helped
Speaker 2: a lot. But like there, it's a similar configuration there.
Speaker 2: The difference is is there will be teams at the
Speaker 2: top of the league that will view Mike Conley and
Speaker 2: Carl Toowns's entry points and start to really find ways
Speaker 2: to exploit that. And so I am curious in the
Speaker 2: big picture, I kind of view them. I know this
Speaker 2: sounds outrageous to say, because they've been a better regular
Speaker 2: season team to this point, but I just view them
Speaker 2: as a lesser version of the Lakers, which is like
Speaker 2: will their half court offense be able to and from
Speaker 2: a lineup construction standpoint, will they be able to put
Speaker 2: together groups of five players that they trust on both
Speaker 2: ends of the floor enough and will they be able
Speaker 2: to execute in the half court? And it's just a
Speaker 2: big question mark for me. I definitely have them in
Speaker 2: my in like my inner circle of contenders. I just
Speaker 2: have them further down there. Fifth twice for me, I
Speaker 2: would say, one, go ahead.
Speaker 1: The team we haven't talked about, and I'm gonna go
Speaker 1: out to see him next week. Like where do we
Speaker 1: slot Oklahoma City right now? Because like what they're just awesome,
Speaker 1: Like they have been awesome for almost the entire season.
Speaker 1: Jay Guilders Alexander is like an automatic thirty every single night.
Speaker 1: Chet Holmgren, they needed him to be a strong number two,
Speaker 1: and that's exactly what he's been. They've got a bunch
Speaker 1: of guys out there that can defend multiple positions. They're
Speaker 1: another one of those teams top ten I think in
Speaker 1: offensive and defense efficiency net rating, Like, you try to
Speaker 1: find flaws with this team and the only one that
Speaker 1: you can come up with really is that they're really
Speaker 1: young and maybe not ready for that type of moment.
Speaker 3: I mean, Cason Wallace comes in.
Speaker 1: Nobody thought Cason Walls could shoot this level he has,
Speaker 1: and he's defending.
Speaker 3: He's another guy that can defend with this group.
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know way to put them right now,
Speaker 1: because they've got a top five record in the NBA,
Speaker 1: they're playing great basketball. They only seem to lose to
Speaker 1: teams that are like on their level or better. I'm
Speaker 1: starting to wonder when we have to take Ogloma City seriously.
Speaker 2: We do have to take them seriously. I view them
Speaker 2: as like a serious upset threat, specifically for certain types
Speaker 2: of matchups because, like the youth thing that you mentioned
Speaker 2: is important, and that's obviously something you have to factor
Speaker 2: in the postseason. Just everything about NBA history tells us
Speaker 2: young teams don't win. That's just you know, even when
Speaker 2: we look at some of the younger teams that have
Speaker 2: had success, like this Thunder with Kevin Durant, there were
Speaker 2: veterans on that roster, like Hendrick Perkins and Derek Fisher
Speaker 2: as you know. So like it's a little different. This
Speaker 2: is this roster does not have a veteran like they
Speaker 2: literally don't you know, it's all young kids now. From
Speaker 2: a basketball standpoint, the big thing is they're just really
Speaker 2: small on the front line and they can't defensive rebound
Speaker 2: and so to me, to me, it really comes down
Speaker 2: to matchup specifics stuff. So like, for instance, they are
Speaker 2: one of the best perimeter defense teams in the league.
Speaker 2: So like if they ran into like a Golden State
Speaker 2: or like a Phoenix where they're not going to be
Speaker 2: as bothered on the front line by some of the
Speaker 2: mismatches there, I could see them upsetting a team, but
Speaker 2: I'd give them like almost no chance to beat Minnesota,
Speaker 2: Denver or the Lakers because of just the front you
Speaker 2: know what I mean.
Speaker 3: And do they do something about that this year?
Speaker 1: Like that's the question I'm going to try to drill
Speaker 1: down on in the next couple of Like they've got
Speaker 1: all these assets, they can't use, all these draft picks,
Speaker 1: but they know that they they probably can't pay all
Speaker 1: these guys because you knowually the cost is going to
Speaker 1: become prohibitive, Like yeah, I remember, you know Sam Presti,
Speaker 1: who's you know, preseason press conferences I just record for
Speaker 1: hilarious sake because they're like an hour and a half long,
Speaker 1: and he uses all these metaphors that take, you know,
Speaker 1: a long time to kind of interpret. But it's like
Speaker 1: you've got all these pieces like do you go out
Speaker 1: and get somebody like you?
Speaker 3: Do you again? I don't know who that is at
Speaker 3: this point.
Speaker 1: The guys that are available that we know of right
Speaker 1: now are more like wing defenders and that's not really
Speaker 1: what Oklahoma City needs to your point at the moment.
Speaker 3: But like, is this a team that that makes a
Speaker 3: big play?
Speaker 1: I mean because even though like they're young, as I mentioned,
Speaker 1: you know, bottom four in terms of UH age, but
Speaker 1: Shay's not young, like lou Dort's not young. Like they're young,
Speaker 1: you know chronologically we've been around for a while and
Speaker 1: they look ready to do something there Like I don't know,
Speaker 1: I mean that that's a team that, you know, if
Speaker 1: it wanted to get aggressive, you know, it might get
Speaker 1: to the trade deadline and realize is a good time
Speaker 1: to do that?
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, because Josh Giddy, beyond the scandal, he just
Speaker 2: hasn't been playing very well. Specifically, his on ball stuff
Speaker 2: hasn't been very good, and there's teams are really starting
Speaker 2: to ignore him off the ball as well, given in
Speaker 2: the whole Jared Vanderbilt treatment, you know, And so I think,
Speaker 2: I think, like, when I look at the idealized version
Speaker 2: of the team, it's Dort and Jalen Williams slotted up
Speaker 2: to the two three rather than the three four, And
Speaker 2: so I almost look at it as at it as
Speaker 2: like Shay Dort, Jalen a big forward to be named
Speaker 2: later and then Chet and to me like the team
Speaker 2: that i'd call. And it's gonna be really hard because
Speaker 2: Danny Ainge is gonna be like, I'll take all of
Speaker 2: the picks. But like, but like I'd be going after
Speaker 2: Laurie marking in because if you could get him, if
Speaker 2: you could get him, if you make a godfather offer there,
Speaker 2: and like and you're basically like, I get to put
Speaker 2: Shae with Laurie, with Chet with Jalen Williams and and
Speaker 2: Lou Dort. Now we're talking about a top tier contenderness.
Speaker 2: I'm with you.
Speaker 1: I think, Oh, I kind of I kind of like
Speaker 1: he's experienced.
Speaker 3: At this point than lowery probably is.
Speaker 2: And he yeah, exactly like you could probably get him
Speaker 2: for Wow, that's actually that's I.
Speaker 3: Think he's the guy that I liked that.
Speaker 1: I think he'd be first to go in Utah once
Speaker 1: they start kind of picking this thing apart. I mean,
Speaker 1: there'll be an appetite for him because he's, you know,
Speaker 1: a six ' ten, six eleven forward center that could
Speaker 1: shoot the ball and has that experience. But again, Oklahoma
Speaker 1: City can outbid pretty much everyone for anything. Uh, that
Speaker 1: that'd be a guy keep an eye.
Speaker 2: On, Yeah, and specifically slotting him next to a Rimp
Speaker 2: protector like Walker Kessler, like a Chet Holmgred. I mean,
Speaker 2: that's another guy'd even be looking at for Indy to
Speaker 2: put next to Miles Turner. That's super interesting. I'm gonna
Speaker 2: keep it, Kelly Olinik. That's that's that's interesting. All right.
Speaker 2: Before we get you out of here today really quickly,
Speaker 2: what were your thoughts in major takeaways from n season
Speaker 2: tournament just like the whole the whole like experience, and
Speaker 2: then did you learn anything from the basketball in gen role.
Speaker 3: I loved it.
Speaker 1: If for no other reason, then I cared more about
Speaker 1: specific November December basketball games this year than I did
Speaker 1: last year. Now, I know it's a lot more complicated
Speaker 1: than that. You know, the in season tournament acolytes will say,
Speaker 1: the ratings are up, the attendance is up, everything, every
Speaker 1: metric you could.
Speaker 3: Want is up.
Speaker 1: But I'm kind of I kind of lean towards that
Speaker 1: side of it. All the skeptics will say, yeah, it's up,
Speaker 1: but how much.
Speaker 3: The nb have to pay for it? Right?
Speaker 1: Like, you know, with all that the league put into
Speaker 1: it in terms of actual cash marketing, I mean, Michael
Speaker 1: imperially commercials, like.
Speaker 2: Can you imagine how much those floors were incredible? Those
Speaker 2: floors regeously.
Speaker 3: It's it's a lot, it's a lot of money.
Speaker 1: So the NBA has invested a lot of cash into it,
Speaker 1: and I understand why, like they're going to go to
Speaker 1: someone this offseason and say we're going to sell the
Speaker 1: is t a la carte and you, and it's another
Speaker 1: way to create revenue for But I would say it
Speaker 1: has been a success because, yes, the ratings were up.
Speaker 1: Somebody from the NBA sent me a stat where it's like,
Speaker 1: during in season tournament games, the quote unquote star players
Speaker 1: played in ninety percent of them or something like that,
Speaker 1: So they got got they got what they wanted, They
Speaker 1: got star players playing in what would have otherwise been
Speaker 1: inconsequential NBA regular season game. So I think to that
Speaker 1: end it's a success. You would it be the same
Speaker 1: next year without all the marketing that's behind it, without
Speaker 1: all the promotion that's behind it, without all the commercializing
Speaker 1: that's behind it. I don't know the answer to that question,
Speaker 1: but I don't know how you can sit there and
Speaker 1: say anyone can sit there and say it's been any
Speaker 1: kind of flop or a failure. Maybe it's a bit
Speaker 1: of a lost leader for the NBA because of my
Speaker 1: much of money they had to spend. But overall it
Speaker 1: generated interest in early season regular season games, which when
Speaker 1: I talked to Adam Silver, when I talked to Evan Wash,
Speaker 1: when I talk to people inside the NBA about the
Speaker 1: ultimate goal of the n season tournament that is often
Speaker 1: at the top of the list, off it accomplished that.
Speaker 1: I think it accomplished what it set out to overall.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I saw Ethan Strauss write a piece the other
Speaker 2: day talking about how people don't realize how much too
Speaker 2: flop it was. He's not wrong. The one thing I
Speaker 2: would say, though, is like Rome wasn't built in a day.
Speaker 2: For lack of a better term, like, this is the
Speaker 2: kind of thing that takes some momentum. I'll give you
Speaker 2: an example. There were i want to say, three teams
Speaker 2: that went three to one in pool play games and
Speaker 2: did not get into the to the knockout round. Point
Speaker 2: being like, you know what, I'm kind of excited for
Speaker 2: next year. I think that that was a good indicator
Speaker 2: of the fact that like, even the four pool play
Speaker 2: games are basically single elimination, like they're like, it kind
Speaker 2: of adds these Like so for all these teams, they're
Speaker 2: six to seven single elimination style games in November and December,
Speaker 2: that adds a great deal of interest, and like in general,
Speaker 2: like Lebron winning and wanting to win it as bad
Speaker 2: as he did, I think that helps for the cachet
Speaker 2: of it all. And like, I think there's a version
Speaker 2: of this we're ten years from now. It is a
Speaker 2: type of tournament that is putting up, you know, a
Speaker 2: half of what you would expect from playoff games. I
Speaker 2: think it's like one of those things where it's way
Speaker 2: too soon to look at it as a success or
Speaker 2: failure in the big picture. But I'll tell you as
Speaker 2: a basketball fan, I loved it. I thought it was fun.
Speaker 1: They're obviously going to be changes, like this was always
Speaker 1: an organic thing that was going to grow and evolve.
Speaker 1: I can tell you that as we sit here recording
Speaker 1: this on Tuesday, there are meetings happening in the league.
Speaker 3: Office about how to evolve it.
Speaker 1: Autopsy is being done. Post mortem's being done about the
Speaker 1: n season tournament. Like one suggestion I would make right
Speaker 1: up the bat. Don't hold the semifinals at two pm
Speaker 1: Local on a Thursday.
Speaker 3: Like that, Like I remember texting League of Fish. I
Speaker 3: understand why the league did it.
Speaker 1: Because they want to do it on one day and
Speaker 1: you could do it or like, but holding it at
Speaker 1: two pm on Thursday in an arena that was didn't
Speaker 1: seem full to me, Like I wasn't there but didn't
Speaker 1: There was no energy in that building at all for
Speaker 1: Pacers against Bucks. That's something needs to be correct corrected.
Speaker 1: Maybe you want to consider other options other than score differential,
Speaker 1: uh for you know, for the next iteration of it,
Speaker 1: for no other reason than to stop getting like Billy
Speaker 1: Donovan pissed off about teams doing things for the Bulls.
Speaker 3: Over the course of the last month.
Speaker 1: So like, there are certainly tweaks that are going to
Speaker 1: be made, you know, to this format, but overall it
Speaker 1: generated interest. I mean the Ethan Straus story, like I read.
Speaker 3: It, it was good. He called it a flop. It's not
Speaker 3: a flop.
Speaker 1: Like it's just like it might not be as successful
Speaker 1: as some people out there are trumpeting it to be,
Speaker 1: but it absolutely is not a flop. It is absolutely
Speaker 1: something that the NBA can build on. And you know
Speaker 1: that just like the play in tournament, it is here
Speaker 1: to stay.
Speaker 2: It's here to stay. That's exactly what I was going
Speaker 2: to say, Like it's very clearly like, oh, the NBA
Speaker 2: is better with this, so let's keep tweaking it and
Speaker 2: making it work at that point, all right, Chris, I
Speaker 2: sincerely appreciate you giving us so much of your time.
Speaker 2: Did you have anything you wanted to plug before?
Speaker 1: But if you're listening to this, make sure you subscribe
Speaker 1: to Boxing with Chris Mannix as well, which is all
Speaker 1: part of the Old Volume Sports family.
Speaker 2: All right, thanks, buddy, I appreciate it. Thank you all
Speaker 2: for listening and for supporting the show as always. Will
Speaker 2: be back tonight to break down another jam packed Tuesday
Speaker 2: night Slate, I'll see you guys. Then the Volume Z