WEBVTT - Part Two: I Do Not Like Elon Musk Very Much 0:00:02.080 --> 0:00:06.120 Welcome back to Behind the Bastards, the only podcast where 0:00:06.160 --> 0:00:08.440 the host just got an email from the A t 0:00:08.640 --> 0:00:12.239 F asking him to sign some documents that I can 0:00:12.280 --> 0:00:14.560 get a suppressor for my A R fifteen. So that's 0:00:14.600 --> 0:00:20.280 exciting news, quite a weird flex. Congratulations dude, thank you, 0:00:20.560 --> 0:00:22.799 thank you. I'm just really excited that I only have 0:00:22.840 --> 0:00:26.599 to wait another twelve months to get it. Um. I'm 0:00:26.640 --> 0:00:29.160 excited to you at some point get to shoot guns 0:00:29.200 --> 0:00:32.479 with you when we can be around pun Sophia. That 0:00:32.520 --> 0:00:36.320 will be a very fun day, especially if my fans 0:00:36.320 --> 0:00:38.760 in the A t F push that paperwork along. I 0:00:38.800 --> 0:00:40.199 have a lot of a lot of A t F 0:00:40.200 --> 0:00:44.920 fans well, because I only talk about wanting the FDA 0:00:45.080 --> 0:00:47.199 to raid me like I don't have any I'm not 0:00:47.240 --> 0:00:48.879 starting to fight with the A t F because I 0:00:48.880 --> 0:00:51.080 know they'll burn down my whole compo. Oh ship. I 0:00:51.159 --> 0:00:59.560 made a Waco. Sorry, this was also that I could 0:00:59.600 --> 0:01:01.880 do a Waco. That was all for a Waco. That 0:01:02.000 --> 0:01:04.040 you built that entire thing up just to bring up 0:01:04.080 --> 0:01:07.480 Waco again. I did, I did, And it's going to 0:01:07.600 --> 0:01:10.119 take two years now for me to get my fucking suppressor. 0:01:10.240 --> 0:01:12.120 I'm gonna get rated by the a t F for 0:01:12.200 --> 0:01:14.200 starting a cult in the woods before I get to 0:01:14.200 --> 0:01:16.360 pick it up, and then they'll burn it down along 0:01:16.360 --> 0:01:21.600 with seventy children keep waking. The A t F would 0:01:21.600 --> 0:01:24.679 think that you wacoing is hilarious, they would. I bet 0:01:24.680 --> 0:01:27.000 they laugh a lot about Waco in the A t F. 0:01:29.880 --> 0:01:32.080 I mean, it could be longer than two years. We 0:01:32.160 --> 0:01:35.880 know that they're terrible at communicating. Yeah, I've spent like 0:01:36.000 --> 0:01:38.840 literal like tens of hours in the last two weeks 0:01:38.880 --> 0:01:42.240 going into like boogaloo Facebook groups and sub creddits and 0:01:42.280 --> 0:01:45.160 like stuff like that, and like there's so many Waco memes. 0:01:45.160 --> 0:01:48.520 They love that fucking Waco uh Netflix show, which was 0:01:48.600 --> 0:01:51.080 like one of the most irresponsible TV shows I've ever seen. 0:01:51.120 --> 0:01:53.720 Electric Boogaloo. What did you say? Yeah, like like the 0:01:53.760 --> 0:01:56.760 civil the second Civil War. That's like the right wing 0:01:56.800 --> 0:01:59.120 meme for like they want to start another civil war. 0:01:59.200 --> 0:02:01.400 It's the boogaloo, that's what they call it. That's how 0:02:01.400 --> 0:02:04.520 ship happens on the internet. Now, Oh gosh, all right, 0:02:04.800 --> 0:02:07.120 so there's like thousands of people on Facebook trying to 0:02:07.120 --> 0:02:09.320 make a civil war happen because they want to get 0:02:09.360 --> 0:02:11.840 to use all of their fancy guns and they also 0:02:12.160 --> 0:02:15.120 really hate the a t F because of Waco, and 0:02:15.160 --> 0:02:17.040 so they have a ton of Waco memes about like 0:02:17.040 --> 0:02:20.440 shooting a t F agents, And it's fine for them, 0:02:20.600 --> 0:02:22.760 but the fucking anti for kids who throw oranges at 0:02:22.800 --> 0:02:25.919 cops get like arrested tear guest for vandalism. It's great 0:02:26.120 --> 0:02:29.160 the mix of how law enforcement responds to these things. 0:02:29.440 --> 0:02:32.720 Were talking selective law enforcement? Were you talking about the 0:02:32.760 --> 0:02:37.359 Waco mini series with McCauley Culkin's brother you're talking about 0:02:37.520 --> 0:02:39.280 I didn't know he was in it, but I think 0:02:39.320 --> 0:02:45.880 that mini series wildly which Caulkin here in Rory's you 0:02:45.880 --> 0:02:47.960 didn't realize there was a coin in there. It's an 0:02:48.000 --> 0:02:51.799 incredibly irresponsible series because while it does accurately I think 0:02:51.840 --> 0:02:55.480 depict how irresponsible the government was, it makes fucking David 0:02:55.560 --> 0:02:58.680 Koresh look like a cool dude when he was lighting. 0:02:58.680 --> 0:03:02.200 No he was not, but I don't know. It's it's fun. 0:03:02.680 --> 0:03:05.320 Fun when you starts where they like show him and 0:03:05.360 --> 0:03:07.160 it makes him look like he can actually sing and 0:03:07.200 --> 0:03:09.760 hiss like a rock star. That that scenes, Yes, yeah, 0:03:09.840 --> 0:03:12.720 like he's a cool rock star. They even try to 0:03:12.800 --> 0:03:16.160 make the fact that he had teenage brides less up. 0:03:16.720 --> 0:03:22.160 It's weird. Netflix really went to bat for David Koresh 0:03:22.960 --> 0:03:26.760 in a way that's kind of baffling. It's like, that's 0:03:26.760 --> 0:03:29.720 a weird. It's an interesting enough story. If he and 0:03:29.800 --> 0:03:34.800 the A T F both suck like and they made 0:03:34.840 --> 0:03:39.800 him hot, he's not that he was picked. No, he 0:03:40.000 --> 0:03:42.520 the guy they picked I think looks exactly like him. 0:03:42.560 --> 0:03:44.560 I will give them that. They cast it like he 0:03:44.600 --> 0:03:48.080 looks and just started his career as a model. I know. 0:03:48.160 --> 0:03:50.400 But if you look at pictures David Koresh like they 0:03:50.520 --> 0:03:53.440 they fucking I think they actually kind of nailed the look. 0:03:53.560 --> 0:03:55.680 They had nothing to contribute to this. I have not 0:03:55.760 --> 0:03:57.960 seen it at all. Yeah, I mean it's not, Oh, 0:03:58.000 --> 0:04:04.320 you're not a Koresh fan. You're not full korushing on korush. No, 0:04:04.920 --> 0:04:08.000 I am not a corrush. You are so fucking wrong. Okay. 0:04:08.080 --> 0:04:10.160 I'm looking at a side by side his face. One 0:04:10.200 --> 0:04:12.680 of them is holy nipples hard, and one of them 0:04:12.720 --> 0:04:16.800 is like, oh send me when I will tell you 0:04:16.920 --> 0:04:21.200 right now, when I start my cult and get taken 0:04:21.200 --> 0:04:22.760 down by I V the F D A or the 0:04:22.800 --> 0:04:24.760 A t F. It's a fucking roll of the dice, 0:04:24.800 --> 0:04:27.160 which one actually burns down our compound and all of 0:04:27.200 --> 0:04:29.880 our children. Um, but when they take me down and 0:04:29.920 --> 0:04:32.640 then make a Netflix movie that whitewashes all of my 0:04:32.680 --> 0:04:36.400 many crimes, make sure Ian McShane plays me. He doesn't 0:04:36.400 --> 0:04:38.400 look like me or sound like me. But that that 0:04:38.600 --> 0:04:40.640 is my wish and it's up to both of you 0:04:40.680 --> 0:04:43.320 to make sure that happens. No, no, no, no, it 0:04:43.400 --> 0:04:46.440 can't be him. Who do you think should play him? Like? 0:04:46.480 --> 0:04:50.320 Maybe give Jared Letto like like some like Oh no, 0:04:50.320 --> 0:04:54.200 no no, but that's nice that you think I'm more 0:04:54.279 --> 0:04:57.320 muscular than Jared Letto. I do appreciate that Sophia does 0:04:57.360 --> 0:05:00.440 any of Jared letto eyes? Oh, now that part it hurts. 0:05:00.600 --> 0:05:02.839 I'm trying to think of. I think that's the only 0:05:02.920 --> 0:05:05.240 nice thing about Jared Letto is his eyes. Are you 0:05:05.320 --> 0:05:08.080 kiding me, Robert? I think we should just got full 0:05:08.120 --> 0:05:13.360 circle and have you played by Jeremy Renner. Okay, alright, Leyeah, 0:05:13.440 --> 0:05:15.640 let's do it, fuck it, Yeah, let's have Renner in there. 0:05:16.360 --> 0:05:18.920 I'm I'm down that, I'm down with that casting. Yeah, 0:05:19.000 --> 0:05:22.400 all right, we've we've figured out when when my Waco 0:05:22.520 --> 0:05:25.000 movie happens. This has been a very Waco start to 0:05:25.040 --> 0:05:28.679 the part two of our Elon Musk podcast. Yeah, let's 0:05:28.760 --> 0:05:31.680 let's get back to talking about Ellen. Hey, thanks for 0:05:31.720 --> 0:05:35.279 having me, by the way, Thanks thanks for coming on, 0:05:35.880 --> 0:05:37.520 Thanks for coming on. I do want to I do 0:05:37.560 --> 0:05:39.760 want to start because like I've been thinking about what 0:05:39.800 --> 0:05:41.520 you said at the end, and I really don't want 0:05:41.560 --> 0:05:43.880 this to be a situation whereby people are like going 0:05:43.920 --> 0:05:46.480 after you because like they think that I was trying 0:05:46.520 --> 0:05:49.240 to be fair to him. I was. I want I 0:05:50.880 --> 0:05:52.440 like there's a lot of ship we're gonna talk about 0:05:52.480 --> 0:05:55.120 today that he did bad. I honestly think the worst 0:05:55.120 --> 0:06:01.400 thing he did is his failure Kitch played Koresh. Sorry 0:06:01.440 --> 0:06:05.600 I sat her aside? Are we still come on so hot? 0:06:05.680 --> 0:06:11.200 That is such badcasting? You Look, it is the official 0:06:11.279 --> 0:06:18.280 position of this podcast that David Koresh that is not true. 0:06:18.279 --> 0:06:21.200 It Look, we have to we have to acknowledge David 0:06:21.279 --> 0:06:28.320 Koresh is sculpted. ABS have to right the side by 0:06:28.360 --> 0:06:31.720 side where it says one of these things is not 0:06:31.839 --> 0:06:38.640 like the other. David Koresh is hot, Elon Musk is bad, 0:06:38.920 --> 0:06:42.279 And I will that that is the stance that I 0:06:42.360 --> 0:06:44.680 want all of the Elon Musk fans hate listening this 0:06:44.720 --> 0:06:47.279 to take out of this is that I officially endorsed 0:06:47.400 --> 0:06:51.520 David koresh is hot. That's important. I officially endorsed you 0:06:51.600 --> 0:06:54.960 to continue this podcast. Hello listeners, this is Sophie. Robert 0:06:55.040 --> 0:06:58.240 is out reporting at the current riots happening in Portland 0:06:58.360 --> 0:07:00.880 right now. But he wanted to make sure that we 0:07:01.000 --> 0:07:04.840 had this correction in part two of this episode. Uh, 0:07:05.040 --> 0:07:09.080 he incorrectly labeled author Ashley Vance as is she and 0:07:09.200 --> 0:07:11.840 he is a he. And Robert also wanted me to 0:07:11.880 --> 0:07:15.840 mention that his book Elon Musk Tesla, SpaceX and the 0:07:15.920 --> 0:07:19.760 Quest for a Fantastic Future is a wonderful book. You 0:07:19.800 --> 0:07:23.240 can find a link to that book under the footnotes 0:07:23.560 --> 0:07:27.800 in part one. Now back to the episode. The thing 0:07:27.800 --> 0:07:30.920 that I condemn Elon most for is and the reason 0:07:30.960 --> 0:07:33.040 I think it's someone important to understand, like how fucked 0:07:33.080 --> 0:07:35.800 up his childhood it was, is that when you have 0:07:35.960 --> 0:07:40.480 an experience like that, a good person should have that 0:07:40.920 --> 0:07:44.920 make them into a better person, a more empathetic person, right, Like, 0:07:45.000 --> 0:07:47.160 that's how what you hope to like. You and I 0:07:47.240 --> 0:07:49.520 both talked Sophia about how like we got bullied a 0:07:49.520 --> 0:07:51.080 bunch and dealt with a bunch of ships like that, 0:07:51.520 --> 0:07:54.640 and I think it made us both into people who 0:07:54.680 --> 0:07:58.600 sympathize a lot with people who are being victimized. Elon 0:07:58.760 --> 0:08:01.680 Musk did not take that out of it. He did 0:08:01.720 --> 0:08:04.640 take the thing where like he clearly hates bullies, but 0:08:04.680 --> 0:08:07.360 he also just basically uses that as an excuse to 0:08:07.360 --> 0:08:10.679 say that everybody who rightfully criticizes him as a bully. 0:08:10.920 --> 0:08:13.720 He clearly didn't learn the most important lesson of his childhood, 0:08:13.960 --> 0:08:16.720 which should have been that a lot of people in 0:08:16.760 --> 0:08:19.640 the world may be forced to serve and horrific militaries 0:08:19.720 --> 0:08:21.960 or stay in countries that they can't stand elite to 0:08:22.080 --> 0:08:23.960 live in, and that it is like an act of 0:08:24.080 --> 0:08:27.080 evil to stop people from trying to find a better life. 0:08:27.080 --> 0:08:29.120 And instead he was willing to like shut his fucking 0:08:29.120 --> 0:08:31.200 mouth and work with an administration that was doing his 0:08:31.280 --> 0:08:34.160 best to cut off other in need kids in a 0:08:34.240 --> 0:08:36.720 similar situation that he was in himself. He did not 0:08:36.840 --> 0:08:39.520 let that turn him into a more empathetic person, and 0:08:39.559 --> 0:08:42.240 that is something that he should be morally condemned for, 0:08:42.360 --> 0:08:44.480 as well as everything else we're about to talk about. Yeah, 0:08:44.520 --> 0:08:47.319 I think that's a really good where you could have gone, 0:08:47.360 --> 0:08:49.840 Like they're by the grace of God, go I instead 0:08:49.880 --> 0:08:53.840 of fuck these kids, I made it out funk these kids. 0:08:54.160 --> 0:08:57.840 Fuck them. They weren't lucky. Yeah, you know, it's not 0:08:57.880 --> 0:09:00.439 even I would have a little bit more respect for 0:09:00.520 --> 0:09:03.520 him if he was like a hardline right winger being like, no, 0:09:03.760 --> 0:09:05.880 I think like I have very strong opinions on immigration 0:09:05.880 --> 0:09:10.439 because with racist piece of shit. No, it's all money related, yeah, exactly, 0:09:10.760 --> 0:09:14.160 he wanted to keep his nice government contracts. Exactly. It's 0:09:14.200 --> 0:09:18.720 all money related, yeah, yep. Ashley Vance spends the book 0:09:18.720 --> 0:09:21.320 of her biography of Elon Musk outlining the entrepreneurs history 0:09:21.320 --> 0:09:23.320 of business, setbacks and successes. And you can find that 0:09:23.360 --> 0:09:24.719 story in a lot of places. I'm not going to 0:09:24.800 --> 0:09:27.720 spend a huge amount of time discussing his products the 0:09:27.720 --> 0:09:30.120 technology behind them, are giving play by plays of every 0:09:30.120 --> 0:09:33.120 acquisition in his history. She writes a lot about his 0:09:33.160 --> 0:09:35.360 cool technology, and it is cool. I've driven a Tesla 0:09:35.400 --> 0:09:37.920 a couple of times and their neat Uh he didn't 0:09:37.960 --> 0:09:41.720 make them. Um yeah. Anyway, in Musk and his brother 0:09:41.760 --> 0:09:43.319 headed to the US. They started their time with a 0:09:43.400 --> 0:09:45.640 road trip and the summer before Musk had to get 0:09:45.640 --> 0:09:47.960 started in his degree, he held a couple of internships 0:09:48.000 --> 0:09:50.760 in Silicon Valley. The tech industry was a natural fit 0:09:50.800 --> 0:09:53.280 for Elon. He developed a reputation as an obsessive worker 0:09:53.320 --> 0:09:55.760 who was willing to put in impossible hours, a reputation 0:09:55.760 --> 0:09:58.720 that has followed him his entire career. When he was interning, 0:09:58.720 --> 0:10:01.280 he had the idea for his first business. A salesperson 0:10:01.320 --> 0:10:03.480 for the Yellow Pages walked into one of the offices 0:10:03.480 --> 0:10:05.520 where he worked and tried to sell his startup on 0:10:05.559 --> 0:10:08.160 the idea of an online listing add onto their normal 0:10:08.240 --> 0:10:11.040 Yellow Pages listings. The pitch was poorly delivered, and the 0:10:11.040 --> 0:10:13.600 guy clearly didn't know anything about the Internet, but Ellen 0:10:13.679 --> 0:10:16.520 saw a glimmer of promise in the idea. In he 0:10:16.520 --> 0:10:19.800 and his brother Kimball formed Global Link Information Network, which 0:10:19.880 --> 0:10:22.600 changed its name to ZIP too because Global Link Information 0:10:22.640 --> 0:10:26.000 Network is a ship name. Uh. The idea behind ZIP 0:10:26.000 --> 0:10:28.440 two was to convince businesses to create web press talking 0:10:28.440 --> 0:10:31.560 that a guy named Kibble isn't good at naming stuff. 0:10:32.600 --> 0:10:35.480 I think I think Musk is the bad nam er 0:10:35.880 --> 0:10:38.600 for reasons that will become clear. He actually has kind 0:10:38.600 --> 0:10:41.640 of an early history of sucking at naming companies and now. 0:10:41.760 --> 0:10:44.080 The idea behind ZIP two was to convince businesses to 0:10:44.080 --> 0:10:46.640 create web presences on a searchable business directory that also 0:10:46.640 --> 0:10:49.280 had a maps component. Obviously that's a good idea because 0:10:49.280 --> 0:10:52.679 it's the way everything works now. Uh. In in very 0:10:52.679 --> 0:10:54.800 ahead of the curve. Uh. And if you've read any 0:10:54.960 --> 0:10:57.360 story about a scrappy tech startup in the Bay, you 0:10:57.600 --> 0:10:59.400 know the story of ZIP to Elan and his brother 0:10:59.480 --> 0:11:01.679 started alone own in a dicky office with the toilets 0:11:01.679 --> 0:11:04.760 backed up, yeada, YadA. They had no money. Uh, the 0:11:04.800 --> 0:11:07.520 shoestring budget, all that bullshit. This is not exactly true. 0:11:07.800 --> 0:11:10.640 Like all of these stories, the scrappy underdog entrepreneurs had 0:11:10.720 --> 0:11:13.640 much more funding than they tend to emphasize. In Musk's case, 0:11:13.760 --> 0:11:15.480 Zip two was formed with the help of twenty eight 0:11:15.480 --> 0:11:20.280 thousand dollars of his dad's money. Um. Yeah, he doesn't 0:11:20.320 --> 0:11:25.079 like to talk about that. Uh. Sometimes he openly acknowledges it. 0:11:25.160 --> 0:11:29.120 I think sometimes he lies. I don't know. Yeah, Ashley 0:11:29.200 --> 0:11:30.959 Vance acknowledges this, but in a way that tries to 0:11:31.000 --> 0:11:33.280 make it seem like it wasn't a big deal. She writes, 0:11:33.360 --> 0:11:35.120 quote they were more or less broke after getting the 0:11:35.120 --> 0:11:37.920 office space licensing software and buying some equipment. For the 0:11:37.920 --> 0:11:39.640 first three months, of zip to his life. Musk and 0:11:39.640 --> 0:11:41.959 his brother lived at the office. Uh, they had a 0:11:41.960 --> 0:11:43.800 small closet where they kept their clothes, would shower at 0:11:43.800 --> 0:11:46.160 the y m c A. I'm so sorry. Oh could 0:11:46.160 --> 0:11:49.000 they have sold any of their free floating diamonds? I 0:11:49.000 --> 0:11:55.200 mean sorry? Uh, fucking what was it? Em I'm sorry there, 0:11:55.240 --> 0:11:58.160 Emerald mon they left the emeralds behind with dad and 0:11:58.200 --> 0:12:00.760 just took twenty eight grand of his money. That's it, 0:12:01.240 --> 0:12:06.199 just a small just a small amount, you know, like 0:12:06.280 --> 0:12:09.040 twenty eight you know, it's not like a Trump size loan, 0:12:09.200 --> 0:12:14.040 but it is significant, right, Like, And like I'm sure 0:12:14.080 --> 0:12:16.840 he's like he's not lying when he says, you know, 0:12:17.000 --> 0:12:19.240 we were on a shoestring budget. But the fact that 0:12:19.280 --> 0:12:21.480 you had a budget is because your dad was rich. 0:12:22.120 --> 0:12:23.839 Like that's the point. The point is not that it 0:12:23.920 --> 0:12:26.040 was easy to start a business on twenty eight grand. 0:12:26.200 --> 0:12:28.080 It's that most of us don't get twenty eight grand 0:12:28.080 --> 0:12:30.960 to start a business and do not have an emerald 0:12:30.960 --> 0:12:34.080 mind to fall back on. Yes, yes, don't have dad's 0:12:34.080 --> 0:12:36.760 emerald mind money to fall back on. Yeah. So, like 0:12:36.840 --> 0:12:39.240 most entrepreneurs in a similar position, Ellen doesn't like to 0:12:39.240 --> 0:12:41.560 talk about the privileges that made his success possible. In 0:12:41.559 --> 0:12:43.319 this case, I suspect some of its pride, but I 0:12:43.360 --> 0:12:45.240 think some of it's also the fact that he hates 0:12:45.280 --> 0:12:48.360 his dad um and probably doesn't want to admit that 0:12:48.400 --> 0:12:50.960 his dad helped a lot. I suspect that if you 0:12:51.000 --> 0:12:52.559 were to get him to be honest about this, he 0:12:52.559 --> 0:12:55.000 would blurt out something like, I earned that money by 0:12:55.000 --> 0:12:57.920 putting up with his ship my whole childhood. But that's 0:12:58.000 --> 0:13:02.120 me editorial thing on Elon's mind a little bit. ZIPP 0:13:02.120 --> 0:13:04.640 two grew rapidly, and this is probably due in part 0:13:04.679 --> 0:13:07.760 to the fact that Ellen put in fundamentally lunatic hours 0:13:07.800 --> 0:13:10.520 to build his company. One of his early employees recalled 0:13:10.520 --> 0:13:12.679 to vance quote, almost every day, I'd come in at 0:13:12.679 --> 0:13:14.600 seven thirty or eight am, and he'd be asleep right 0:13:14.640 --> 0:13:17.040 there on that bag. He had a bean bag. Maybe 0:13:17.080 --> 0:13:18.920 he showered on the weekends. I don't know. You get 0:13:18.960 --> 0:13:22.400 the feeling that Must didn't shower a lot. That's why Must. 0:13:22.960 --> 0:13:26.880 That totally makes sense now, the all of these the 0:13:26.960 --> 0:13:29.720 thing that is emphasized. I worked as a tech journalist 0:13:29.720 --> 0:13:31.080 for a while, so I've little read a lot of 0:13:31.080 --> 0:13:34.839 biographies about a lot of tech guys, and they all 0:13:34.880 --> 0:13:37.600 smelled terrible, and so did their little offices. When they started, 0:13:37.720 --> 0:13:41.559 they were all fucking nasty. It's not hard. You get 0:13:41.600 --> 0:13:47.280 your best ideas in the shower, yes, just they get 0:13:47.280 --> 0:13:51.200 their best ideas by forming like a fucking a crown 0:13:51.240 --> 0:13:54.800 of scrutal sweat around their fucking draw string pants. I 0:13:54.800 --> 0:13:57.040 don't know. I used to work at Google. Yeah, and 0:13:57.120 --> 0:14:00.720 some some the engineer areas would sometimes get must Yeah. 0:14:00.720 --> 0:14:07.680 There's a smell that engineers have, engineer stink. Yeah. It 0:14:07.760 --> 0:14:10.600 was Musk's manic level of devotion and obsessive work ethic 0:14:10.960 --> 0:14:13.520 that endeared him to the venture capitalists who investments helped 0:14:13.600 --> 0:14:16.400 ZIP to grow into a viable business. They saw him as, 0:14:16.440 --> 0:14:18.720 in the words of one employee, willing to stake his 0:14:18.800 --> 0:14:22.200 existence on building this business. He told one investor, my 0:14:22.280 --> 0:14:24.760 mentality is that of a samurai. I would rather commit 0:14:24.760 --> 0:14:30.280 seppuku than fail. Um. Yeah, I would die for Global 0:14:30.360 --> 0:14:38.920 Link Incorporated. Yeah, I would die for the Yellow Pages. Yeah. 0:14:39.040 --> 0:14:41.560 But zip to success was also heavily dependent on the 0:14:41.560 --> 0:14:43.400 good will of friends that Musk and his brother made 0:14:43.480 --> 0:14:46.280 during their time at Canada. Their buddy Greg Corey was critical, 0:14:46.280 --> 0:14:48.840 giving them six thousand dollars when they left for California 0:14:48.920 --> 0:14:50.960 to start their company, he became a co founder and 0:14:50.960 --> 0:14:54.000 his past real estate and business experience were crucial. Ashley 0:14:54.040 --> 0:14:56.720 Vance Rights quote the Canadian had a knack for calming 0:14:56.800 --> 0:14:59.280 musk and ended up being something of a mentor. Really 0:14:59.280 --> 0:15:02.120 smart people sometimes don't understand that not everyone can keep 0:15:02.200 --> 0:15:04.440 up with them or go as fast, said Derek PROUDI 0:15:04.480 --> 0:15:06.640 and a venture capitalist who become ZIP to his chief 0:15:06.640 --> 0:15:09.400 executive officer, Greg is one of the few people that 0:15:09.480 --> 0:15:11.520 Ellen would listen to and had a way of putting 0:15:11.560 --> 0:15:14.720 things in context for him. Kourie also used to referee 0:15:14.720 --> 0:15:16.960 fist fights between Elon and Kimball in the middle of 0:15:17.000 --> 0:15:22.680 the office. So and his brother's exactly the kind of 0:15:22.960 --> 0:15:26.800 I expect from peoples and bits totally. Yeah, and it's 0:15:26.840 --> 0:15:28.920 the thing that it's the thing that is true also 0:15:28.960 --> 0:15:31.080 about Facebook, where it's like, yeah, it should be against 0:15:31.120 --> 0:15:35.480 the law for teenagers to start businesses. It's actually it's 0:15:35.640 --> 0:15:38.000 bad for a lot of reasons, in part because they 0:15:38.000 --> 0:15:41.080 never grow out of being teenagers in their heads. Yes, 0:15:41.200 --> 0:15:43.240 he had office fist fights with his brother, and Kimball's 0:15:43.280 --> 0:15:46.280 insistent that he was the only person Ellen ever fought physically. 0:15:46.280 --> 0:15:49.440 At least one uh SpaceX employee has accused Ellen of 0:15:49.520 --> 0:15:52.160 being physically aggressive with him. Um, but that came years later, 0:15:52.320 --> 0:15:54.040 so we'll talk about that maybe a little bit later. 0:15:54.240 --> 0:15:56.400 Kimball claims that neither he nor his brother quote have 0:15:56.480 --> 0:15:59.600 the ability to reconcile a vision other than our own, 0:16:00.040 --> 0:16:02.280 which I think is totally accurate. I don't think Kimball's 0:16:02.320 --> 0:16:05.440 lying at all about that. Um. The fights ended after 0:16:05.520 --> 0:16:07.680 Ellen ripped some of the skin off of his fist. 0:16:07.760 --> 0:16:09.720 I think because he missed a punch and hit something 0:16:09.760 --> 0:16:12.000 else and he had to get a tetnis shot. Uh. 0:16:12.040 --> 0:16:14.280 Corey told them both that they had to stop fighting 0:16:14.280 --> 0:16:17.280 in the office after that, which you shouldn't have to 0:16:17.320 --> 0:16:21.440 tell people. But whatever, boys, boys, keep it down in 0:16:21.440 --> 0:16:25.040 the office of the business. You're trying to start of 0:16:25.160 --> 0:16:29.880 the business, your courting investments for fewer fist fights on 0:16:29.920 --> 0:16:34.160 the floor when the investors are in the room. Yeah. 0:16:34.640 --> 0:16:37.760 By the company was off the ground and running, Elon, 0:16:37.840 --> 0:16:40.040 a self taught coder, was largely replaced by a team 0:16:40.040 --> 0:16:42.480 of new professional coders who rewrote almost every line of 0:16:42.520 --> 0:16:44.760 code that Ellen had put in. There was a good 0:16:44.760 --> 0:16:47.200 reason for this. Elon's code was functional, but tended to 0:16:47.200 --> 0:16:50.720 be idiosyncratic, difficult to update and expand over time, difficult 0:16:50.720 --> 0:16:53.200 for other people to work on. Handing over control for 0:16:53.240 --> 0:16:55.520 this was difficult for him. He had particular trouble with 0:16:55.560 --> 0:16:58.720 the fact that professional coders wanted to work normal human hours. 0:16:59.040 --> 0:17:00.720 He tried to get them to go without sleeping for 0:17:00.800 --> 0:17:02.800 days at a time, but they were unwilling to do 0:17:02.840 --> 0:17:06.600 this for some reason. He tried to get them to 0:17:06.640 --> 0:17:13.159 stop breathing and willing for some crazy reason. Aren't you 0:17:13.200 --> 0:17:15.760 guys willing to die for my vision? No, it's the 0:17:15.840 --> 0:17:19.440 Yellow Pages, but Internet Ellen, like calm, calm, the funk 0:17:19.520 --> 0:17:28.800 down people are not still the business. Yeah, yeah, that 0:17:28.960 --> 0:17:32.600 is an important point you make, Sophia. One of the 0:17:32.600 --> 0:17:34.919 things that I think that I have learned reading all 0:17:34.960 --> 0:17:37.600 this is that like Ellen makes a big point now 0:17:37.640 --> 0:17:39.639 about how all of his business is. His goal is 0:17:39.680 --> 0:17:41.960 like saving the world, Like SpaceX is to save the 0:17:42.040 --> 0:17:44.159 human race by getting us off the planet. Tesla is 0:17:44.200 --> 0:17:46.400 to save the human race by like putting it into 0:17:46.400 --> 0:17:50.399 fossil fuel use. And he talks about that enough, and 0:17:50.440 --> 0:17:52.639 a lot of reviewers act as if he just believes it, 0:17:52.680 --> 0:17:55.040 And I'm sure he has convinced himself that he believes 0:17:55.080 --> 0:17:57.200 that you get the feeling though from his fucking Yellow 0:17:57.200 --> 0:17:59.800 Pages business. He's always needed to be able to claim 0:17:59.840 --> 0:18:01.919 that his businesses are that important so that he can 0:18:02.000 --> 0:18:05.760 justify the fact that he is an unreasonable workaholic that 0:18:05.840 --> 0:18:09.320 fox over people in them, like he had to find 0:18:09.320 --> 0:18:11.399 a business that he could claim was critical to the 0:18:11.440 --> 0:18:13.640 future of the human race so that he could act 0:18:13.680 --> 0:18:16.840 like the asshole he's always acted like in business. That's 0:18:16.880 --> 0:18:20.520 that's I think core to him. Oh, totally, you're right 0:18:20.560 --> 0:18:22.600 on about that. And it also reminds me of like 0:18:22.640 --> 0:18:25.400 a lot of comedians who are like, no, where art 0:18:25.520 --> 0:18:28.720 is I mean, like as a comedian whenever people are like, hey, 0:18:28.880 --> 0:18:31.160 you know what, where art is okay? And like sometimes 0:18:31.240 --> 0:18:33.360 we have to like do stuff to like for our 0:18:33.480 --> 0:18:35.840 art and like it's it's fine if we're dicks, Like 0:18:36.119 --> 0:18:39.959 it's gonna make for great jokes and stories later. It's like, 0:18:40.040 --> 0:18:43.359 you can't do that other people's expense. Man, I have 0:18:43.480 --> 0:18:45.840 I have endangered myself and the people around me for 0:18:45.960 --> 0:18:49.600 my career. I fucked up and been very unreasonable and 0:18:49.680 --> 0:18:53.720 unfair and relationships for the sake of my career. Um, 0:18:53.760 --> 0:18:57.200 there's a lot of men, in particularly men who wind 0:18:57.280 --> 0:19:00.800 up succeeding under capitalism, who have that aspect to their personality. 0:19:01.160 --> 0:19:04.320 And it's not a good thing. It's bad. It's bad 0:19:04.359 --> 0:19:05.960 that I do it. It's bad that Ellen does it. 0:19:06.000 --> 0:19:08.679 It's a bad thing to do. Um. It's not just men. 0:19:08.720 --> 0:19:10.560 A lot of women have it too, But I guess 0:19:10.560 --> 0:19:13.400 men get away with it. I think more because it's expected, 0:19:14.400 --> 0:19:16.680 and I think it's sometimes has admired. They're like, well 0:19:16.720 --> 0:19:18.199 that's what you have to do. If you want to 0:19:18.200 --> 0:19:21.000 become a Steve Jobs, you have to fucking be a dick, 0:19:21.240 --> 0:19:24.080 Like that's what it is. Yeah, Yeah, And you get 0:19:24.119 --> 0:19:26.520 a lot of positive reinforcement as a man for being 0:19:26.560 --> 0:19:30.159 an unreasonable workaholic. Like for years before it started to 0:19:30.200 --> 0:19:32.240 be a problem in like my romantic life and my 0:19:32.320 --> 0:19:35.000 personal life, I got praised a ton for like what 0:19:35.080 --> 0:19:37.359 a hard worker I was, And it was like I 0:19:37.400 --> 0:19:39.440 wasn't actually being praised for working hard. I was being 0:19:39.440 --> 0:19:44.879 praised for working unreasonably. Um, but it's my husband is 0:19:44.920 --> 0:19:48.399 the same way. Yeah, it's rewarded. You can make a 0:19:48.440 --> 0:19:52.840 lot of money doing that. Term the greatest movie ever, 0:19:52.960 --> 0:19:57.000 even though you leave for seven years to fucking figure 0:19:57.040 --> 0:20:01.240 it out, you know, and don't see your fanis you know, Sophia. 0:20:01.280 --> 0:20:09.159 You don't talk about your husband James Cameron often. Um, 0:20:09.160 --> 0:20:12.240 and he's he's right in the background as we talk, 0:20:12.359 --> 0:20:17.240 working on another fucking submarine. Like enough with the submarines, James, 0:20:17.280 --> 0:20:28.399 God damn it. Uh um yeah, thank god. So uh yeah. Um. 0:20:28.440 --> 0:20:30.359 The business did well. ZIP two did really well, and 0:20:30.440 --> 0:20:33.080 success made Ellen into a more confident person, giving him 0:20:33.080 --> 0:20:35.520 a sense of control that he'd lacked in his early life. 0:20:35.520 --> 0:20:37.960 He slowly learned to tone some of the less productive 0:20:37.960 --> 0:20:41.960 aspects of his personality down. His wife Justine later claimed quote, 0:20:42.720 --> 0:20:45.040 Ellen is not someone who would say I feel you, 0:20:45.160 --> 0:20:47.439 I see your point of view, because he doesn't have 0:20:47.560 --> 0:20:50.159