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Speaker 1: Welcome back to Behind the Bastards, the only podcast where

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Speaker 1: the host just got an email from the A t

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Speaker 1: F asking him to sign some documents that I can

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Speaker 1: get a suppressor for my A R fifteen. So that's

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Speaker 1: exciting news, quite a weird flex. Congratulations dude, thank you,

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Speaker 1: thank you. I'm just really excited that I only have

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Speaker 1: to wait another twelve months to get it. Um. I'm

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Speaker 1: excited to you at some point get to shoot guns

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Speaker 1: with you when we can be around pun Sophia. That

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Speaker 1: will be a very fun day, especially if my fans

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Speaker 1: in the A t F push that paperwork along. I

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Speaker 1: have a lot of a lot of A t F

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Speaker 1: fans well, because I only talk about wanting the FDA

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Speaker 1: to raid me like I don't have any I'm not

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Speaker 1: starting to fight with the A t F because I

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Speaker 1: know they'll burn down my whole compo. Oh ship. I

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Speaker 1: made a Waco. Sorry, this was also that I could

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Speaker 1: do a Waco. That was all for a Waco. That

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Speaker 1: you built that entire thing up just to bring up

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Speaker 1: Waco again. I did, I did, And it's going to

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Speaker 1: take two years now for me to get my fucking suppressor.

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna get rated by the a t F for

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Speaker 1: starting a cult in the woods before I get to

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Speaker 1: pick it up, and then they'll burn it down along

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Speaker 1: with seventy children keep waking. The A t F would

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Speaker 1: think that you wacoing is hilarious, they would. I bet

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Speaker 1: they laugh a lot about Waco in the A t F.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it could be longer than two years. We

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Speaker 1: know that they're terrible at communicating. Yeah, I've spent like

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Speaker 1: literal like tens of hours in the last two weeks

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Speaker 1: going into like boogaloo Facebook groups and sub creddits and

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Speaker 1: like stuff like that, and like there's so many Waco memes.

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Speaker 1: They love that fucking Waco uh Netflix show, which was

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Speaker 1: like one of the most irresponsible TV shows I've ever seen.

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Speaker 1: Electric Boogaloo. What did you say? Yeah, like like the

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Speaker 1: civil the second Civil War. That's like the right wing

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Speaker 1: meme for like they want to start another civil war.

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Speaker 1: It's the boogaloo, that's what they call it. That's how

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Speaker 1: ship happens on the internet. Now, Oh gosh, all right,

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Speaker 1: so there's like thousands of people on Facebook trying to

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Speaker 1: make a civil war happen because they want to get

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Speaker 1: to use all of their fancy guns and they also

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Speaker 1: really hate the a t F because of Waco, and

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Speaker 1: so they have a ton of Waco memes about like

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Speaker 1: shooting a t F agents, And it's fine for them,

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Speaker 1: but the fucking anti for kids who throw oranges at

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Speaker 1: cops get like arrested tear guest for vandalism. It's great

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Speaker 1: the mix of how law enforcement responds to these things.

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Speaker 1: Were talking selective law enforcement? Were you talking about the

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Speaker 1: Waco mini series with McCauley Culkin's brother you're talking about

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Speaker 1: I didn't know he was in it, but I think

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Speaker 1: that mini series wildly which Caulkin here in Rory's you

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Speaker 1: didn't realize there was a coin in there. It's an

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Speaker 1: incredibly irresponsible series because while it does accurately I think

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Speaker 1: depict how irresponsible the government was, it makes fucking David

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Speaker 1: Koresh look like a cool dude when he was lighting.

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Speaker 1: No he was not, but I don't know. It's it's fun.

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Speaker 1: Fun when you starts where they like show him and

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Speaker 1: it makes him look like he can actually sing and

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Speaker 1: hiss like a rock star. That that scenes, Yes, yeah,

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Speaker 1: like he's a cool rock star. They even try to

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Speaker 1: make the fact that he had teenage brides less up.

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Speaker 1: It's weird. Netflix really went to bat for David Koresh

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Speaker 1: in a way that's kind of baffling. It's like, that's

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Speaker 1: a weird. It's an interesting enough story. If he and

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Speaker 1: the A T F both suck like and they made

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Speaker 1: him hot, he's not that he was picked. No, he

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Speaker 1: the guy they picked I think looks exactly like him.

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Speaker 1: I will give them that. They cast it like he

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Speaker 1: looks and just started his career as a model. I know.

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Speaker 1: But if you look at pictures David Koresh like they

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Speaker 1: they fucking I think they actually kind of nailed the look.

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Speaker 1: They had nothing to contribute to this. I have not

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Speaker 1: seen it at all. Yeah, I mean it's not, Oh,

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Speaker 1: you're not a Koresh fan. You're not full korushing on korush. No,

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Speaker 1: I am not a corrush. You are so fucking wrong. Okay.

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Speaker 1: I'm looking at a side by side his face. One

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Speaker 1: of them is holy nipples hard, and one of them

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Speaker 1: is like, oh send me when I will tell you

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Speaker 1: right now, when I start my cult and get taken

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Speaker 1: down by I V the F D A or the

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Speaker 1: A t F. It's a fucking roll of the dice,

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Speaker 1: which one actually burns down our compound and all of

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Speaker 1: our children. Um, but when they take me down and

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Speaker 1: then make a Netflix movie that whitewashes all of my

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Speaker 1: many crimes, make sure Ian McShane plays me. He doesn't

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Speaker 1: look like me or sound like me. But that that

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Speaker 1: is my wish and it's up to both of you

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Speaker 1: to make sure that happens. No, no, no, no, it

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Speaker 1: can't be him. Who do you think should play him? Like?

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Speaker 1: Maybe give Jared Letto like like some like Oh no,

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Speaker 1: no no, but that's nice that you think I'm more

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Speaker 1: muscular than Jared Letto. I do appreciate that Sophia does

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Speaker 1: any of Jared letto eyes? Oh, now that part it hurts.

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Speaker 1: I'm trying to think of. I think that's the only

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Speaker 1: nice thing about Jared Letto is his eyes. Are you

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Speaker 1: kiding me, Robert? I think we should just got full

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Speaker 1: circle and have you played by Jeremy Renner. Okay, alright, Leyeah,

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Speaker 1: let's do it, fuck it, Yeah, let's have Renner in there.

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Speaker 1: I'm I'm down that, I'm down with that casting. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: all right, we've we've figured out when when my Waco

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Speaker 1: movie happens. This has been a very Waco start to

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Speaker 1: the part two of our Elon Musk podcast. Yeah, let's

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Speaker 1: let's get back to talking about Ellen. Hey, thanks for

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Speaker 1: having me, by the way, Thanks thanks for coming on,

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Speaker 1: Thanks for coming on. I do want to I do

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Speaker 1: want to start because like I've been thinking about what

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Speaker 1: you said at the end, and I really don't want

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Speaker 1: this to be a situation whereby people are like going

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Speaker 1: after you because like they think that I was trying

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Speaker 1: to be fair to him. I was. I want I

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Speaker 1: like there's a lot of ship we're gonna talk about

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Speaker 1: today that he did bad. I honestly think the worst

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Speaker 1: thing he did is his failure Kitch played Koresh. Sorry

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Speaker 1: I sat her aside? Are we still come on so hot?

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Speaker 1: That is such badcasting? You Look, it is the official

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Speaker 1: position of this podcast that David Koresh that is not true.

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Speaker 1: It Look, we have to we have to acknowledge David

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Speaker 1: Koresh is sculpted. ABS have to right the side by

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Speaker 1: side where it says one of these things is not

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Speaker 1: like the other. David Koresh is hot, Elon Musk is bad,

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Speaker 1: And I will that that is the stance that I

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Speaker 1: want all of the Elon Musk fans hate listening this

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Speaker 1: to take out of this is that I officially endorsed

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Speaker 1: David koresh is hot. That's important. I officially endorsed you

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Speaker 1: to continue this podcast. Hello listeners, this is Sophie. Robert

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Speaker 1: is out reporting at the current riots happening in Portland

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Speaker 1: right now. But he wanted to make sure that we

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Speaker 1: had this correction in part two of this episode. Uh,

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Speaker 1: he incorrectly labeled author Ashley Vance as is she and

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Speaker 1: he is a he. And Robert also wanted me to

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Speaker 1: mention that his book Elon Musk Tesla, SpaceX and the

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Speaker 1: Quest for a Fantastic Future is a wonderful book. You

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Speaker 1: can find a link to that book under the footnotes

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Speaker 1: in part one. Now back to the episode. The thing

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Speaker 1: that I condemn Elon most for is and the reason

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Speaker 1: I think it's someone important to understand, like how fucked

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Speaker 1: up his childhood it was, is that when you have

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Speaker 1: an experience like that, a good person should have that

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Speaker 1: make them into a better person, a more empathetic person, right, Like,

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Speaker 1: that's how what you hope to like. You and I

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Speaker 1: both talked Sophia about how like we got bullied a

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Speaker 1: bunch and dealt with a bunch of ships like that,

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Speaker 1: and I think it made us both into people who

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Speaker 1: sympathize a lot with people who are being victimized. Elon

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Speaker 1: Musk did not take that out of it. He did

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Speaker 1: take the thing where like he clearly hates bullies, but

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Speaker 1: he also just basically uses that as an excuse to

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Speaker 1: say that everybody who rightfully criticizes him as a bully.

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Speaker 1: He clearly didn't learn the most important lesson of his childhood,

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Speaker 1: which should have been that a lot of people in

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Speaker 1: the world may be forced to serve and horrific militaries

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Speaker 1: or stay in countries that they can't stand elite to

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Speaker 1: live in, and that it is like an act of

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Speaker 1: evil to stop people from trying to find a better life.

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Speaker 1: And instead he was willing to like shut his fucking

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Speaker 1: mouth and work with an administration that was doing his

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Speaker 1: best to cut off other in need kids in a

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Speaker 1: similar situation that he was in himself. He did not

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Speaker 1: let that turn him into a more empathetic person, and

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Speaker 1: that is something that he should be morally condemned for,

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Speaker 1: as well as everything else we're about to talk about. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think that's a really good where you could have gone,

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Speaker 1: Like they're by the grace of God, go I instead

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Speaker 1: of fuck these kids, I made it out funk these kids.

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Speaker 1: Fuck them. They weren't lucky. Yeah, you know, it's not

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Speaker 1: even I would have a little bit more respect for

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Speaker 1: him if he was like a hardline right winger being like, no,

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Speaker 1: I think like I have very strong opinions on immigration

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Speaker 1: because with racist piece of shit. No, it's all money related, yeah, exactly,

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Speaker 1: he wanted to keep his nice government contracts. Exactly. It's

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Speaker 1: all money related, yeah, yep. Ashley Vance spends the book

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Speaker 1: of her biography of Elon Musk outlining the entrepreneurs history

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Speaker 1: of business, setbacks and successes. And you can find that

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Speaker 1: story in a lot of places. I'm not going to

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Speaker 1: spend a huge amount of time discussing his products the

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Speaker 1: technology behind them, are giving play by plays of every

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Speaker 1: acquisition in his history. She writes a lot about his

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Speaker 1: cool technology, and it is cool. I've driven a Tesla

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Speaker 1: a couple of times and their neat Uh he didn't

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Speaker 1: make them. Um yeah. Anyway, in Musk and his brother

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Speaker 1: headed to the US. They started their time with a

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Speaker 1: road trip and the summer before Musk had to get

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Speaker 1: started in his degree, he held a couple of internships

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Speaker 1: in Silicon Valley. The tech industry was a natural fit

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Speaker 1: for Elon. He developed a reputation as an obsessive worker

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Speaker 1: who was willing to put in impossible hours, a reputation

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Speaker 1: that has followed him his entire career. When he was interning,

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Speaker 1: he had the idea for his first business. A salesperson

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Speaker 1: for the Yellow Pages walked into one of the offices

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Speaker 1: where he worked and tried to sell his startup on

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Speaker 1: the idea of an online listing add onto their normal

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Speaker 1: Yellow Pages listings. The pitch was poorly delivered, and the

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Speaker 1: guy clearly didn't know anything about the Internet, but Ellen

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Speaker 1: saw a glimmer of promise in the idea. In he

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Speaker 1: and his brother Kimball formed Global Link Information Network, which

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Speaker 1: changed its name to ZIP too because Global Link Information

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Speaker 1: Network is a ship name. Uh. The idea behind ZIP

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Speaker 1: two was to convince businesses to create web press talking

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Speaker 1: that a guy named Kibble isn't good at naming stuff.

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Speaker 1: I think I think Musk is the bad nam er

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Speaker 1: for reasons that will become clear. He actually has kind

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Speaker 1: of an early history of sucking at naming companies and now.

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Speaker 1: The idea behind ZIP two was to convince businesses to

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Speaker 1: create web presences on a searchable business directory that also

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Speaker 1: had a maps component. Obviously that's a good idea because

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Speaker 1: it's the way everything works now. Uh. In in very

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Speaker 1: ahead of the curve. Uh. And if you've read any

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Speaker 1: story about a scrappy tech startup in the Bay, you

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Speaker 1: know the story of ZIP to Elan and his brother

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Speaker 1: started alone own in a dicky office with the toilets

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Speaker 1: backed up, yeada, YadA. They had no money. Uh, the

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Speaker 1: shoestring budget, all that bullshit. This is not exactly true.

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Speaker 1: Like all of these stories, the scrappy underdog entrepreneurs had

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Speaker 1: much more funding than they tend to emphasize. In Musk's case,

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Speaker 1: Zip two was formed with the help of twenty eight

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Speaker 1: thousand dollars of his dad's money. Um. Yeah, he doesn't

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Speaker 1: like to talk about that. Uh. Sometimes he openly acknowledges it.

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Speaker 1: I think sometimes he lies. I don't know. Yeah, Ashley

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Speaker 1: Vance acknowledges this, but in a way that tries to

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Speaker 1: make it seem like it wasn't a big deal. She writes,

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Speaker 1: quote they were more or less broke after getting the

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Speaker 1: office space licensing software and buying some equipment. For the

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Speaker 1: first three months, of zip to his life. Musk and

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Speaker 1: his brother lived at the office. Uh, they had a

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Speaker 1: small closet where they kept their clothes, would shower at

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Speaker 1: the y m c A. I'm so sorry. Oh could

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Speaker 1: they have sold any of their free floating diamonds? I

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Speaker 1: mean sorry? Uh, fucking what was it? Em I'm sorry there,

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Speaker 1: Emerald mon they left the emeralds behind with dad and

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Speaker 1: just took twenty eight grand of his money. That's it,

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Speaker 1: just a small just a small amount, you know, like

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Speaker 1: twenty eight you know, it's not like a Trump size loan,

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Speaker 1: but it is significant, right, Like, And like I'm sure

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Speaker 1: he's like he's not lying when he says, you know,

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Speaker 1: we were on a shoestring budget. But the fact that

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Speaker 1: you had a budget is because your dad was rich.

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Speaker 1: Like that's the point. The point is not that it

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Speaker 1: was easy to start a business on twenty eight grand.

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Speaker 1: It's that most of us don't get twenty eight grand

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Speaker 1: to start a business and do not have an emerald

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Speaker 1: mind to fall back on. Yes, yes, don't have dad's

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Speaker 1: emerald mind money to fall back on. Yeah. So, like

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Speaker 1: most entrepreneurs in a similar position, Ellen doesn't like to

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Speaker 1: talk about the privileges that made his success possible. In

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Speaker 1: this case, I suspect some of its pride, but I

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Speaker 1: think some of it's also the fact that he hates

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Speaker 1: his dad um and probably doesn't want to admit that

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Speaker 1: his dad helped a lot. I suspect that if you

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Speaker 1: were to get him to be honest about this, he

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Speaker 1: would blurt out something like, I earned that money by

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Speaker 1: putting up with his ship my whole childhood. But that's

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Speaker 1: me editorial thing on Elon's mind a little bit. ZIPP

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Speaker 1: two grew rapidly, and this is probably due in part

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Speaker 1: to the fact that Ellen put in fundamentally lunatic hours

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Speaker 1: to build his company. One of his early employees recalled

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Speaker 1: to vance quote, almost every day, I'd come in at

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Speaker 1: seven thirty or eight am, and he'd be asleep right

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Speaker 1: there on that bag. He had a bean bag. Maybe

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Speaker 1: he showered on the weekends. I don't know. You get

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Speaker 1: the feeling that Must didn't shower a lot. That's why Must.

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Speaker 1: That totally makes sense now, the all of these the

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Speaker 1: thing that is emphasized. I worked as a tech journalist

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Speaker 1: for a while, so I've little read a lot of

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Speaker 1: biographies about a lot of tech guys, and they all

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Speaker 1: smelled terrible, and so did their little offices. When they started,

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Speaker 1: they were all fucking nasty. It's not hard. You get

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Speaker 1: your best ideas in the shower, yes, just they get

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Speaker 1: their best ideas by forming like a fucking a crown

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Speaker 1: of scrutal sweat around their fucking draw string pants. I

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Speaker 1: don't know. I used to work at Google. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: some some the engineer areas would sometimes get must Yeah.

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Speaker 1: There's a smell that engineers have, engineer stink. Yeah. It

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Speaker 1: was Musk's manic level of devotion and obsessive work ethic

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Speaker 1: that endeared him to the venture capitalists who investments helped

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Speaker 1: ZIP to grow into a viable business. They saw him as,

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Speaker 1: in the words of one employee, willing to stake his

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Speaker 1: existence on building this business. He told one investor, my

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Speaker 1: mentality is that of a samurai. I would rather commit

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Speaker 1: seppuku than fail. Um. Yeah, I would die for Global

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Speaker 1: Link Incorporated. Yeah, I would die for the Yellow Pages. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: But zip to success was also heavily dependent on the

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Speaker 1: good will of friends that Musk and his brother made

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Speaker 1: during their time at Canada. Their buddy Greg Corey was critical,

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Speaker 1: giving them six thousand dollars when they left for California

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Speaker 1: to start their company, he became a co founder and

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Speaker 1: his past real estate and business experience were crucial. Ashley

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Speaker 1: Vance Rights quote the Canadian had a knack for calming

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Speaker 1: musk and ended up being something of a mentor. Really

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Speaker 1: smart people sometimes don't understand that not everyone can keep

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Speaker 1: up with them or go as fast, said Derek PROUDI

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Speaker 1: and a venture capitalist who become ZIP to his chief

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Speaker 1: executive officer, Greg is one of the few people that

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Speaker 1: Ellen would listen to and had a way of putting

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Speaker 1: things in context for him. Kourie also used to referee

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Speaker 1: fist fights between Elon and Kimball in the middle of

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Speaker 1: the office. So and his brother's exactly the kind of

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Speaker 1: I expect from peoples and bits totally. Yeah, and it's

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Speaker 1: the thing that it's the thing that is true also

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Speaker 1: about Facebook, where it's like, yeah, it should be against

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Speaker 1: the law for teenagers to start businesses. It's actually it's

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Speaker 1: bad for a lot of reasons, in part because they

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Speaker 1: never grow out of being teenagers in their heads. Yes,

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Speaker 1: he had office fist fights with his brother, and Kimball's

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Speaker 1: insistent that he was the only person Ellen ever fought physically.

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Speaker 1: At least one uh SpaceX employee has accused Ellen of

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Speaker 1: being physically aggressive with him. Um, but that came years later,

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Speaker 1: so we'll talk about that maybe a little bit later.

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Speaker 1: Kimball claims that neither he nor his brother quote have

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Speaker 1: the ability to reconcile a vision other than our own,

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Speaker 1: which I think is totally accurate. I don't think Kimball's

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Speaker 1: lying at all about that. Um. The fights ended after

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Speaker 1: Ellen ripped some of the skin off of his fist.

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Speaker 1: I think because he missed a punch and hit something

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Speaker 1: else and he had to get a tetnis shot. Uh.

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Speaker 1: Corey told them both that they had to stop fighting

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Speaker 1: in the office after that, which you shouldn't have to

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Speaker 1: tell people. But whatever, boys, boys, keep it down in

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Speaker 1: the office of the business. You're trying to start of

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Speaker 1: the business, your courting investments for fewer fist fights on

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Speaker 1: the floor when the investors are in the room. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: By the company was off the ground and running, Elon,

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Speaker 1: a self taught coder, was largely replaced by a team

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Speaker 1: of new professional coders who rewrote almost every line of

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Speaker 1: code that Ellen had put in. There was a good

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Speaker 1: reason for this. Elon's code was functional, but tended to

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Speaker 1: be idiosyncratic, difficult to update and expand over time, difficult

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Speaker 1: for other people to work on. Handing over control for

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Speaker 1: this was difficult for him. He had particular trouble with

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Speaker 1: the fact that professional coders wanted to work normal human hours.

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Speaker 1: He tried to get them to go without sleeping for

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Speaker 1: days at a time, but they were unwilling to do

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Speaker 1: this for some reason. He tried to get them to

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Speaker 1: stop breathing and willing for some crazy reason. Aren't you

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Speaker 1: guys willing to die for my vision? No, it's the

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Speaker 1: Yellow Pages, but Internet Ellen, like calm, calm, the funk

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Speaker 1: down people are not still the business. Yeah, yeah, that

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Speaker 1: is an important point you make, Sophia. One of the

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Speaker 1: things that I think that I have learned reading all

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Speaker 1: this is that like Ellen makes a big point now

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Speaker 1: about how all of his business is. His goal is

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Speaker 1: like saving the world, Like SpaceX is to save the

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Speaker 1: human race by getting us off the planet. Tesla is

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Speaker 1: to save the human race by like putting it into

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Speaker 1: fossil fuel use. And he talks about that enough, and

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Speaker 1: a lot of reviewers act as if he just believes it,

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Speaker 1: And I'm sure he has convinced himself that he believes

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Speaker 1: that you get the feeling though from his fucking Yellow

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Speaker 1: Pages business. He's always needed to be able to claim

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Speaker 1: that his businesses are that important so that he can

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Speaker 1: justify the fact that he is an unreasonable workaholic that

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Speaker 1: fox over people in them, like he had to find

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Speaker 1: a business that he could claim was critical to the

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Speaker 1: future of the human race so that he could act

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Speaker 1: like the asshole he's always acted like in business. That's

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Speaker 1: that's I think core to him. Oh, totally, you're right

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Speaker 1: on about that. And it also reminds me of like

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Speaker 1: a lot of comedians who are like, no, where art

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Speaker 1: is I mean, like as a comedian whenever people are like, hey,

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Speaker 1: you know what, where art is okay? And like sometimes

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Speaker 1: we have to like do stuff to like for our

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Speaker 1: art and like it's it's fine if we're dicks, Like

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Speaker 1: it's gonna make for great jokes and stories later. It's like,

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Speaker 1: you can't do that other people's expense. Man, I have

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Speaker 1: I have endangered myself and the people around me for

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Speaker 1: my career. I fucked up and been very unreasonable and

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Speaker 1: unfair and relationships for the sake of my career. Um,

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of men, in particularly men who wind

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Speaker 1: up succeeding under capitalism, who have that aspect to their personality.

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Speaker 1: And it's not a good thing. It's bad. It's bad

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Speaker 1: that I do it. It's bad that Ellen does it.

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Speaker 1: It's a bad thing to do. Um. It's not just men.

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Speaker 1: A lot of women have it too, But I guess

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Speaker 1: men get away with it. I think more because it's expected,

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Speaker 1: and I think it's sometimes has admired. They're like, well

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Speaker 1: that's what you have to do. If you want to

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Speaker 1: become a Steve Jobs, you have to fucking be a dick,

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Speaker 1: Like that's what it is. Yeah, Yeah, And you get

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Speaker 1: a lot of positive reinforcement as a man for being

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Speaker 1: an unreasonable workaholic. Like for years before it started to

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Speaker 1: be a problem in like my romantic life and my

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Speaker 1: personal life, I got praised a ton for like what

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Speaker 1: a hard worker I was, And it was like I

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Speaker 1: wasn't actually being praised for working hard. I was being

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Speaker 1: praised for working unreasonably. Um, but it's my husband is

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Speaker 1: the same way. Yeah, it's rewarded. You can make a

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Speaker 1: lot of money doing that. Term the greatest movie ever,

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Speaker 1: even though you leave for seven years to fucking figure

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Speaker 1: it out, you know, and don't see your fanis you know, Sophia.

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Speaker 1: You don't talk about your husband James Cameron often. Um,

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Speaker 1: and he's he's right in the background as we talk,

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Speaker 1: working on another fucking submarine. Like enough with the submarines, James,

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Speaker 1: God damn it. Uh um yeah, thank god. So uh yeah. Um.

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Speaker 1: The business did well. ZIP two did really well, and

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Speaker 1: success made Ellen into a more confident person, giving him

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Speaker 1: a sense of control that he'd lacked in his early life.

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Speaker 1: He slowly learned to tone some of the less productive

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Speaker 1: aspects of his personality down. His wife Justine later claimed quote,

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Speaker 1: Ellen is not someone who would say I feel you,

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Speaker 1: I see your point of view, because he doesn't have

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Speaker 1: that I feel you dimension where things that sleeemed obvious

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Speaker 1: to other people that weren't that obvious to him. He

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Speaker 1: had to learn that a twenty something year old really

404
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Speaker 1: shouldn't shoot down the plans of older senior people and

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Speaker 1: point out everything wrong with him. He learned to modify

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Speaker 1: his pavior in certain ways. And this is true objectively

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Speaker 1: because he got good at dealing with money people, but

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Speaker 1: he only learned how to communicate more carefully with people

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Speaker 1: he needed things from Uh, Doris Downs Zip to his

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Speaker 1: former creative director, later recalled I remember being in a

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Speaker 1: meeting once brainstorming about a new product, a new car site.

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Speaker 1: Someone complained about a technical change that we wanted being impossible.

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Speaker 1: Ellen turned and said, I don't really give a damn

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Speaker 1: what you think and walked out of the meeting. For Ellen,

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Speaker 1: the word no does not exist, and he expects that

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Speaker 1: attitude from everyone around him. This is again Advance his

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Speaker 1: book to always spun as a positive thing. And the

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Speaker 1: thing that Vance will point out is that like and

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Speaker 1: and that employees who both like and hate Ellen will

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Speaker 1: point out is that his trigger is being told something

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Speaker 1: can't be done. You always have to present him with

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Speaker 1: an alternate option of what can be done instead. And

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Speaker 1: again that's often seen as like no, this is like

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Speaker 1: a good management practice, that's part of his success that

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Speaker 1: like he makes his people always present him with another option.

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Speaker 1: But it really is rooted in the fact that he

427
00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:02,760
Speaker 1: can't hear no. He can't be told no. He's not

428
00:22:02,920 --> 00:22:06,480
Speaker 1: learned that, which is good. Sophia, Yeah, I mean that's

429
00:22:06,480 --> 00:22:12,719
Speaker 1: actually first wife down Yep. Clearly be just a great

430
00:22:13,240 --> 00:22:17,240
Speaker 1: learning of lessons for him. No. Ever, and it's interesting

431
00:22:17,280 --> 00:22:19,720
Speaker 1: that he did learn how to modify kind of the

432
00:22:19,760 --> 00:22:22,760
Speaker 1: noxious aspects of his behavior around people. He needed money

433
00:22:22,800 --> 00:22:26,080
Speaker 1: from UM. That is really telling, and he doesn't want

434
00:22:26,119 --> 00:22:29,280
Speaker 1: to with his employees, so he feels fine taking like

435
00:22:29,359 --> 00:22:33,720
Speaker 1: acting that way around them anyway. That's good behavior. ZIP

436
00:22:33,720 --> 00:22:36,440
Speaker 1: to continue to grow and it it did consistently lose money,

437
00:22:36,520 --> 00:22:39,600
Speaker 1: but obviously in Silicon Valley that doesn't matter. UM and

438
00:22:39,720 --> 00:22:41,720
Speaker 1: the VC money kept trickling in enough to keep it

439
00:22:41,760 --> 00:22:44,720
Speaker 1: alive until the company was purchased purchased by Compact in

440
00:22:44,800 --> 00:22:48,840
Speaker 1: February of nine for three hundred and seven million dollars

441
00:22:48,840 --> 00:22:54,000
Speaker 1: in cash. Ellen walked away with bucks himself. Yeah, he

442
00:22:54,040 --> 00:22:56,080
Speaker 1: got about twenty two million out of that, and he

443
00:22:56,160 --> 00:22:59,000
Speaker 1: left the company immediately because he didn't actually really care

444
00:22:59,000 --> 00:23:00,800
Speaker 1: about this project. He just wanted to get rich off

445
00:23:00,800 --> 00:23:04,159
Speaker 1: of it. UM and Yeah, when he talks about this

446
00:23:04,240 --> 00:23:07,159
Speaker 1: in the present day, his chief lingering frustrations with his

447
00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:09,399
Speaker 1: time seemed to be number one that the coders he

448
00:23:09,440 --> 00:23:11,320
Speaker 1: worked with weren't as good as him. He always talks

449
00:23:11,359 --> 00:23:14,240
Speaker 1: about like how he had to correct their funk ups

450
00:23:14,320 --> 00:23:16,280
Speaker 1: and like everyone else, always talks about the fact that

451
00:23:16,359 --> 00:23:19,479
Speaker 1: his code wouldn't have worked in a real product and

452
00:23:19,520 --> 00:23:21,639
Speaker 1: like needed to be fixed by people who knew how

453
00:23:21,680 --> 00:23:26,040
Speaker 1: to actually code um in a productive way. Uh yeah,

454
00:23:26,119 --> 00:23:28,280
Speaker 1: and he also is really angry that he never got

455
00:23:28,280 --> 00:23:31,000
Speaker 1: to be CEO because everybody agreed that he was bad

456
00:23:31,040 --> 00:23:33,159
Speaker 1: at dealing with people and wouldn't let him be CEO.

457
00:23:33,760 --> 00:23:35,639
Speaker 1: So that's what he was angry with walking out of

458
00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:39,479
Speaker 1: his first business. So uh, he spent a million dollars

459
00:23:39,480 --> 00:23:41,960
Speaker 1: immediately on a on a McLaren, which is some sort

460
00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:44,320
Speaker 1: of fancy rich person car that there's there's not many

461
00:23:44,359 --> 00:23:46,640
Speaker 1: of them, so rich guys love it because there's only

462
00:23:46,680 --> 00:23:49,800
Speaker 1: like sixty Oh I'm just like you. I'm a rare, precious,

463
00:23:50,440 --> 00:23:56,600
Speaker 1: precious you know, muscle that's me. Yeah yeah, by car

464
00:23:56,640 --> 00:23:59,520
Speaker 1: there's just like may really precious and rare and special

465
00:23:59,840 --> 00:24:05,040
Speaker 1: and expensive. And he needed to be unique even more

466
00:24:05,040 --> 00:24:06,560
Speaker 1: because like, not only did he need to get the

467
00:24:06,560 --> 00:24:08,760
Speaker 1: car that's like the fancy car that almost no one

468
00:24:08,800 --> 00:24:11,359
Speaker 1: gets to have, but he also couldn't be like a

469
00:24:11,359 --> 00:24:13,520
Speaker 1: normal rich guy and like have it be like his

470
00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:15,679
Speaker 1: fancy special car that he drives when he wants to

471
00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:17,639
Speaker 1: be fancy. Like he was famous for treating it like

472
00:24:17,680 --> 00:24:19,959
Speaker 1: ship and like letting it get dirty and like fucking

473
00:24:19,960 --> 00:24:22,560
Speaker 1: it up, hitting curbs curbs, and he bragged about it.

474
00:24:22,560 --> 00:24:24,439
Speaker 1: It's important to people that people that he knew that

475
00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:26,879
Speaker 1: he had this unique car and that he treated it

476
00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:29,679
Speaker 1: like ship, like he needed other folks to know that

477
00:24:29,760 --> 00:24:32,720
Speaker 1: about him. I would literally throw this money in a

478
00:24:32,760 --> 00:24:36,439
Speaker 1: garbage disposal, bra I don't care, Okay, I just throw it.

479
00:24:36,520 --> 00:24:39,520
Speaker 1: I don't care disposal. I'm cool. When he had the

480
00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:42,359
Speaker 1: car delivered, he had CNN show up at his house

481
00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:45,160
Speaker 1: to film the delivery. The interview caught Ellen at an

482
00:24:45,160 --> 00:24:47,240
Speaker 1: interesting point in his life, when he was clearly elated

483
00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:49,520
Speaker 1: by his new found wealth, wildly cocky, and far too

484
00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:51,439
Speaker 1: young to know how off putting all of this is.

485
00:24:51,800 --> 00:24:54,439
Speaker 1: Ashley Vance writes, quote the whole time, he looked like

486
00:24:54,480 --> 00:24:56,600
Speaker 1: a caricature of an engineer who had made it. Big

487
00:24:56,720 --> 00:24:58,920
Speaker 1: Musk's hair had started thinning, and he had a closely

488
00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:01,760
Speaker 1: cropped cut that is tuated his boyish face. He wore

489
00:25:01,800 --> 00:25:03,720
Speaker 1: an all two big brown sport coat and checked his

490
00:25:03,760 --> 00:25:06,080
Speaker 1: cell phone from his lavish car, sitting next to his

491
00:25:06,119 --> 00:25:09,600
Speaker 1: gorgeous girlfriend, Justine. Justine moved to California, by the way,

492
00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:12,320
Speaker 1: and he seems spelled by bound by his life. Must

493
00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:14,720
Speaker 1: rolled out one laughable rich guy line after another, talking

494
00:25:14,760 --> 00:25:17,440
Speaker 1: first about the ZIP two deal receiving cash as cash,

495
00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:19,440
Speaker 1: I mean, those are just a large number of Ben

496
00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:22,640
Speaker 1: Franklin's and next about the awesomeness of his life there

497
00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:25,560
Speaker 1: it is, gentleman, the fastest car in the world, And

498
00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:28,040
Speaker 1: then about his prodigious ambition. I could go and buy

499
00:25:28,040 --> 00:25:29,760
Speaker 1: one of the islands in the Bahamas and turn it

500
00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:32,159
Speaker 1: into my personal fiefdom. But I am much more interested

501
00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:34,719
Speaker 1: in trying to build and create a new company. So

502
00:25:34,760 --> 00:25:38,480
Speaker 1: he's just like a real asshole about this and patting

503
00:25:38,560 --> 00:25:40,840
Speaker 1: himself on the back during it. He's like, I could

504
00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:42,879
Speaker 1: have done another rich guy thing, but I'm doing this

505
00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:46,240
Speaker 1: rot guy thing that I think is better. Yeah, that's

506
00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:48,520
Speaker 1: what happens when you give a rich kid in his

507
00:25:48,560 --> 00:25:51,840
Speaker 1: early twenties twenty two million dollars of his own I'm

508
00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:57,280
Speaker 1: not like other rich guys. Yeah, I'm making a space

509
00:25:57,400 --> 00:26:01,160
Speaker 1: company or what I'm gonna make it. Well, not yet. First,

510
00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:04,760
Speaker 1: he wants to make an internet based bank. Uh So

511
00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:07,440
Speaker 1: he rolls most of his money that he got from

512
00:26:07,480 --> 00:26:09,960
Speaker 1: gets from the sale into x dot com, which is

513
00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:12,800
Speaker 1: this his idea for an internet best based bank, and

514
00:26:12,840 --> 00:26:15,879
Speaker 1: what's unusual about this is that most tech millionaires, like

515
00:26:15,960 --> 00:26:18,680
Speaker 1: who started new businesses after their first hit, got other

516
00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:21,000
Speaker 1: people to put in the money. And this is something

517
00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:23,320
Speaker 1: that Musk is rare about. Musk is that he he

518
00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:26,000
Speaker 1: put most of his own fortune into X dot com

519
00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:29,000
Speaker 1: um and this this was really uncommon. And the reason

520
00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:31,159
Speaker 1: why is because he wanted control. He wanted to be

521
00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:34,320
Speaker 1: CEO this time around, and so putting in the majority

522
00:26:34,320 --> 00:26:37,080
Speaker 1: of the funding gave him control and meant other people

523
00:26:37,119 --> 00:26:39,520
Speaker 1: could have less of a say over his vision and

524
00:26:39,560 --> 00:26:43,040
Speaker 1: couldn't say no to him. Now, from the beginning, there

525
00:26:43,040 --> 00:26:45,520
Speaker 1: were conflicts at x dot com based on the alon's behavior.

526
00:26:45,800 --> 00:26:47,639
Speaker 1: One of his co founders was a guy named Fricker,

527
00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:49,639
Speaker 1: who had moved from Canada to help start the business

528
00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:52,760
Speaker 1: and was frustrated by Evon's attitude. Fricker wanted to create

529
00:26:52,760 --> 00:26:56,040
Speaker 1: a straightforward where I'm so sorry, it's really boring here

530
00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:03,720
Speaker 1: during this podcast, just in my life. So Fricker wanted

531
00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:06,520
Speaker 1: to create a straightforward online bank, like he didn't see

532
00:27:06,520 --> 00:27:08,680
Speaker 1: why it needed to be a big deal. It was like, yeah, people,

533
00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:10,320
Speaker 1: the internet is the thing. Now people are gonna need

534
00:27:10,320 --> 00:27:12,000
Speaker 1: a bank. This seems like a thing we should do

535
00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:14,199
Speaker 1: and make money, whereas Elon was like, no, we're going

536
00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:16,720
Speaker 1: to completely change the banking system and the way that

537
00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:19,080
Speaker 1: banking has done will never be the same, And it

538
00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:21,240
Speaker 1: had to be like this big fucking deal for him,

539
00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:23,480
Speaker 1: whereas this guy was like, Yeah, we could just make

540
00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:26,760
Speaker 1: like a bank app thing online and that will be

541
00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:29,359
Speaker 1: a thing people want. Ellen it had to be a

542
00:27:29,359 --> 00:27:32,760
Speaker 1: bigger deal for Elon, and Fricker accused Musk of overhyping

543
00:27:32,760 --> 00:27:36,080
Speaker 1: their product and eventually attempted a coup against Musk. So

544
00:27:36,119 --> 00:27:38,800
Speaker 1: five months after x dot com was founded, Fricker and

545
00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:41,080
Speaker 1: most of the best engineers in the company all left

546
00:27:41,119 --> 00:27:43,440
Speaker 1: to form their own business. It says a lot about

547
00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:46,240
Speaker 1: Musk's personality that very few of the people at the

548
00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:49,320
Speaker 1: company sided with him in this personal dispute. You get

549
00:27:49,359 --> 00:27:52,200
Speaker 1: the feeling they all found him very frustrating. But Musk

550
00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:54,120
Speaker 1: kept going, and he was able to hide x dot

551
00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:57,880
Speaker 1: COM's internal problems from Mike Moritz of Sequoia Capital, who

552
00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:00,000
Speaker 1: put in a major investment that allowed Elon to hire

553
00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:03,359
Speaker 1: are more engineers to continue his vision. One former employee

554
00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:06,520
Speaker 1: later recalled, you look back and it was total insanity.

555
00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:09,000
Speaker 1: We had what amounted to a Hollywood movie set of

556
00:28:09,040 --> 00:28:13,240
Speaker 1: a website. It barely got past the venture capitalists. The

557
00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:15,479
Speaker 1: x dot com office was tiny and cramped and by

558
00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:18,719
Speaker 1: all accounts disgusting. One employee recalled, it was this massive

559
00:28:18,760 --> 00:28:22,000
Speaker 1: adolescent men that worked so hard it stunk so badly

560
00:28:22,040 --> 00:28:25,200
Speaker 1: in there. I can still smell it leftover pizza, body

561
00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:31,080
Speaker 1: odor and sweat. He's so lucky that he isn't Jewish.

562
00:28:31,119 --> 00:28:33,760
Speaker 1: If he had like just come out and been like,

563
00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:36,480
Speaker 1: I'm going to change the banking industry, people would have

564
00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:38,960
Speaker 1: just said all kinds of anti Semitic ship for him

565
00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:41,000
Speaker 1: to him for the rest of his fucking life. It

566
00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:43,960
Speaker 1: would have followed him around. Yes, this was the one

567
00:28:44,040 --> 00:28:46,600
Speaker 1: time anti Semitism might have helped us all out. But

568
00:28:46,640 --> 00:28:58,320
Speaker 1: alas if only oh man yeah uh in a company

569
00:28:58,360 --> 00:29:00,600
Speaker 1: filled with broken souldman who worked way too hard on

570
00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:03,520
Speaker 1: a damn banking app must work the way too hardest,

571
00:29:03,560 --> 00:29:07,440
Speaker 1: putting in twenty three hours a day to everyone else's twenty. Uh.

572
00:29:07,480 --> 00:29:09,240
Speaker 1: That's a bit of an exaggeration, but it's how he

573
00:29:09,280 --> 00:29:11,440
Speaker 1: describes it, and probably not super far off from the truth,

574
00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:13,560
Speaker 1: just based on what we know of him. By Thanksgiving

575
00:29:13,600 --> 00:29:16,680
Speaker 1: of x dot com was live and it worked. It

576
00:29:16,800 --> 00:29:19,240
Speaker 1: was not the only game in online banking town. However,

577
00:29:19,600 --> 00:29:22,400
Speaker 1: Max Levchin and Peter Teal were working on a competing

578
00:29:22,440 --> 00:29:25,840
Speaker 1: product at exactly the same time. They called it Confinity,

579
00:29:25,880 --> 00:29:28,240
Speaker 1: which is a ship name. But Teal and company also

580
00:29:28,320 --> 00:29:31,360
Speaker 1: picked an objectively good name for the service. They called

581
00:29:31,400 --> 00:29:34,240
Speaker 1: it PayPal, which is a way better name than Confinity,

582
00:29:34,360 --> 00:29:38,040
Speaker 1: or than X dot com, which sounds like a porn side. Well,

583
00:29:38,080 --> 00:29:40,160
Speaker 1: it's actually what I heard. What I heard is that

584
00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:42,920
Speaker 1: X dot com got bought out by Exhibit and became

585
00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:47,360
Speaker 1: X to the Z dot com. Oh, I don't get

586
00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:51,680
Speaker 1: the joke. I understand there's a joke. I just don't

587
00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:54,520
Speaker 1: get it. It's fine. You need to know who Exhibit is.

588
00:29:54,560 --> 00:29:56,680
Speaker 1: I know enough for for the both of us that

589
00:29:56,920 --> 00:30:02,560
Speaker 1: so thank you. So yeah. In March, so they competed

590
00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:05,280
Speaker 1: for a while and we're basically like running both companies

591
00:30:05,320 --> 00:30:07,920
Speaker 1: out of business by fighting with money. Uh. And so

592
00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:10,520
Speaker 1: in March of two thousand they decided to merge um

593
00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:14,520
Speaker 1: personality crop conflicts cropped up almost immediately. Uh and it

594
00:30:14,720 --> 00:30:18,280
Speaker 1: I hate Peter Teal is honestly more deserving behind the

595
00:30:18,280 --> 00:30:20,480
Speaker 1: bastards than Elon Musk. He'll get one at some point

596
00:30:20,520 --> 00:30:23,440
Speaker 1: because he is a real monster. Um, but he comes

597
00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:27,800
Speaker 1: off as the more reasonable person in the fight between them. UM.

598
00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:31,400
Speaker 1: So the big issue is that Peter Teal and everyone

599
00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:33,880
Speaker 1: else at the company thought PayPal was a better name

600
00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:36,719
Speaker 1: for their service, and Elon Musk was in love with

601
00:30:36,920 --> 00:30:39,040
Speaker 1: X dot com because he'd come up with it and

602
00:30:39,040 --> 00:30:41,080
Speaker 1: he was not willing to come from bias, and he

603
00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:46,880
Speaker 1: was objectively wrong. But it's also such a little kid

604
00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:49,280
Speaker 1: named to like, he's like X dot com And if

605
00:30:49,360 --> 00:30:56,600
Speaker 1: that's taken, what about dot com? And if that's yeah,

606
00:30:56,720 --> 00:30:59,840
Speaker 1: it's it's silly. There's a lot that's been written about

607
00:30:59,840 --> 00:31:02,080
Speaker 1: the Apaul Mafia, which is what all these guys came

608
00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:03,880
Speaker 1: to be known as in this period, and I'm I'm

609
00:31:03,880 --> 00:31:05,560
Speaker 1: just not going to talk much about it because I

610
00:31:05,600 --> 00:31:10,000
Speaker 1: don't find it interesting and fuck it. But yeah, I

611
00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:12,080
Speaker 1: should just let you know that that's a term you

612
00:31:12,120 --> 00:31:14,120
Speaker 1: here a lot, and I don't care about it. I'm

613
00:31:14,120 --> 00:31:16,920
Speaker 1: not gonna go into much detail about PayPal because it's boring. Um.

614
00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:18,920
Speaker 1: What's most important is that there was a split between

615
00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:21,400
Speaker 1: Musk and Teal, and Teel actually resigned from the company

616
00:31:21,440 --> 00:31:23,800
Speaker 1: two months after the merger. Peter Teal is a huge

617
00:31:23,800 --> 00:31:25,520
Speaker 1: piece of ship. But it really seems like Musk was

618
00:31:25,560 --> 00:31:27,560
Speaker 1: more of a problem here, given this was the second

619
00:31:27,600 --> 00:31:29,440
Speaker 1: time in less than a year that a co founder

620
00:31:29,480 --> 00:31:31,600
Speaker 1: of the company that he worked at had quit after

621
00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:36,280
Speaker 1: an argument with Ellen. Uh. Yeah, so that's interesting. UM.

622
00:31:36,440 --> 00:31:38,640
Speaker 1: X dot com had other issues. The company picked up

623
00:31:38,640 --> 00:31:40,800
Speaker 1: new users at a huge rate, but it's infrastructure was

624
00:31:40,840 --> 00:31:44,000
Speaker 1: not able to handle the loads, so the site collapsed regularly. Uh.

625
00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:46,560
Speaker 1: Fraud was rampant, and the business lost tons of money

626
00:31:46,600 --> 00:31:48,800
Speaker 1: as a result of stupid shit. Uh. And I'm gonna

627
00:31:48,840 --> 00:31:51,960
Speaker 1: quote from Ashley Vance's book Now. As x dot com

628
00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:54,640
Speaker 1: became popular and its transaction volume exploded, all of its

629
00:31:54,640 --> 00:31:57,120
Speaker 1: problems worsened. There was more fraud, there were more fees

630
00:31:57,120 --> 00:31:59,600
Speaker 1: from banks and credit card companies. There was more competition

631
00:31:59,600 --> 00:32:02,120
Speaker 1: from star ups. X dot com lacked a cohesive business

632
00:32:02,160 --> 00:32:04,200
Speaker 1: model to offset the losses and turn a profit from

633
00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:07,480
Speaker 1: the money it managed. Ralof BOTHA, the startups chief financial

634
00:32:07,520 --> 00:32:10,280
Speaker 1: officer and now a prominent venture capitalist at Sequoia, did

635
00:32:10,280 --> 00:32:12,280
Speaker 1: not think Musk provided the board with a true picture

636
00:32:12,280 --> 00:32:14,400
Speaker 1: of x dot COM's issues. A growing number of other

637
00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:16,880
Speaker 1: people at the company questioned Musk's decision making in the

638
00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:18,960
Speaker 1: face of all the crises. What followed was one of

639
00:32:18,960 --> 00:32:22,080
Speaker 1: the nastiest coups and Silicon Valley's long illustrious history of

640
00:32:22,160 --> 00:32:24,880
Speaker 1: nasty coup's. A small group of x dot com employees

641
00:32:24,920 --> 00:32:27,560
Speaker 1: gathered one night at Fanny and Alexander, a now defunct

642
00:32:27,560 --> 00:32:30,240
Speaker 1: bar and Paulo Alto and brainstormed about how to push

643
00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:32,280
Speaker 1: out Musk. They decided to sell the board on the

644
00:32:32,320 --> 00:32:35,480
Speaker 1: idea of Teal returning a CEO. Instead of confronting Musk

645
00:32:35,560 --> 00:32:38,360
Speaker 1: directly with the plan, the conspirators decided to take action

646
00:32:38,400 --> 00:32:41,880
Speaker 1: behind Musk's back. So the coup plotters acted right as

647
00:32:41,920 --> 00:32:44,920
Speaker 1: Elon Musk left for his honeymoon with Justine. They actually

648
00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:48,200
Speaker 1: married months earlier, but hadn't been able to celebrate it

649
00:32:48,200 --> 00:32:52,040
Speaker 1: because Elon Musk is a workaholic. Uh. So he finds

650
00:32:52,080 --> 00:32:55,000
Speaker 1: out that they're ousting him as CEO right after they

651
00:32:55,080 --> 00:32:59,920
Speaker 1: land in Sydney, Australia. Um, and he immediately leaves the

652
00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:02,560
Speaker 1: honeymoon to go try to win his company back because

653
00:33:02,600 --> 00:33:07,240
Speaker 1: that is where I what she said when that happened.

654
00:33:07,560 --> 00:33:14,320
Speaker 1: She's so excited. Yeah, he loves me. Yeah. So Ellen

655
00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:16,800
Speaker 1: and Justine land in like Australia. Yeah, and he just

656
00:33:16,800 --> 00:33:18,840
Speaker 1: like books a trip back right away. He didn't get

657
00:33:18,840 --> 00:33:21,160
Speaker 1: his way, though. Teal took over. X dot Com was

658
00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:24,080
Speaker 1: rebranded as PayPal, and according to the folks who worked there,

659
00:33:24,360 --> 00:33:27,520
Speaker 1: Ellen did take this eventually. Well, Um, he didn't blow

660
00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:29,640
Speaker 1: the company up or anything, although we probably could have tried.

661
00:33:30,120 --> 00:33:32,560
Speaker 1: With new, better management and a much better name. PayPal

662
00:33:32,640 --> 00:33:35,880
Speaker 1: took off in July two. eBay offered one point five

663
00:33:35,960 --> 00:33:38,960
Speaker 1: billion dollars for the company. The board accepted the deal,

664
00:33:39,040 --> 00:33:42,080
Speaker 1: and Musk got two hundred and fifty million. This shuck

665
00:33:42,080 --> 00:33:45,000
Speaker 1: out to about a hundred and eighty million dollars after taxes. Question,

666
00:33:45,560 --> 00:33:50,000
Speaker 1: Justine stay and enjoy Australia by herself and have a

667
00:33:50,080 --> 00:33:53,640
Speaker 1: good old time. Was that mentioned? Because that's what I'm Yeah,

668
00:33:54,200 --> 00:34:00,480
Speaker 1: I think, so, I think, Yeah, I hope. So she

669
00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:05,520
Speaker 1: writes fantasy novels, which wasn't initially very supportive of, and

670
00:34:05,560 --> 00:34:08,759
Speaker 1: then made fun of her four around his friends. Um,

671
00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:11,000
Speaker 1: because that's the kind of guy he is. What a

672
00:34:11,160 --> 00:34:14,239
Speaker 1: shitty piece of ship. Yeah, my husband made part of

673
00:34:14,280 --> 00:34:17,000
Speaker 1: my career behind my back. Yeah he would be dead.

674
00:34:17,480 --> 00:34:21,920
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, don't don't ship talk your spouse's career.

675
00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:25,399
Speaker 1: Unless your spouses Elon Musk, then absolutely do ship talk

676
00:34:25,400 --> 00:34:31,759
Speaker 1: your spouse's career grimes. Start a fucking book club just

677
00:34:31,840 --> 00:34:34,680
Speaker 1: so people can come over and rag on your husband

678
00:34:34,719 --> 00:34:39,560
Speaker 1: with Yeah. So like, hey, Ellen, you've seen any space lately?

679
00:34:39,600 --> 00:34:42,839
Speaker 1: I don't know how to I don't have a good

680
00:34:42,920 --> 00:34:47,360
Speaker 1: joke yet. Give me a minute. Yeah, thank you, eat it.

681
00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:50,600
Speaker 1: And while you take that minute, that'll teach you it's

682
00:34:50,600 --> 00:34:53,480
Speaker 1: time for something else, Robert. While you take that man, Hey, hey,

683
00:34:53,600 --> 00:34:57,640
Speaker 1: rocket man, why don't you burn out your fuse alone?

684
00:34:57,880 --> 00:35:02,880
Speaker 1: Because you're incapable of intimacy? There we go, Bam, that

685
00:35:03,080 --> 00:35:06,960
Speaker 1: was weird. Um, But anyway, you know what's not incapable

686
00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:17,359
Speaker 1: of intimacy these products and services. We're back. We're back

687
00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:21,440
Speaker 1: from those incredibly horny products talking about the equally probably

688
00:35:21,480 --> 00:35:25,600
Speaker 1: horny Elon Musk, but horny for business, horny to save

689
00:35:25,680 --> 00:35:29,239
Speaker 1: the world. That's Elon Musk in this period. So uh,

690
00:35:29,400 --> 00:35:32,839
Speaker 1: as everyone I'm sure knows, Ellen takes all his money

691
00:35:32,840 --> 00:35:35,200
Speaker 1: he makes from eBay and he throws it into Tesla

692
00:35:35,320 --> 00:35:39,120
Speaker 1: SpaceX and his brother's business, Solar City. UM. Ashley Vance's

693
00:35:39,120 --> 00:35:40,759
Speaker 1: book gives a good blow by blot blow account of

694
00:35:40,760 --> 00:35:43,520
Speaker 1: how this all went down if you're interested. Solar City

695
00:35:43,600 --> 00:35:49,160
Speaker 1: next door to um Circuit City, Yes, yes, yes, Party City,

696
00:35:49,680 --> 00:35:53,279
Speaker 1: corner from Party City, yes, around the corner from both.

697
00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:56,919
Speaker 1: It's in the city block of Lincoln City. I don't

698
00:35:56,960 --> 00:36:00,360
Speaker 1: know it. Tesla started out as some other dudes electric

699
00:36:00,400 --> 00:36:03,120
Speaker 1: car company, So Elon Musk didn't start Tesla, which is

700
00:36:03,320 --> 00:36:05,680
Speaker 1: should be obvious because it has a good name. And

701
00:36:05,800 --> 00:36:09,720
Speaker 1: as we've learned, Elon Musk cannot name a business well. Um.

702
00:36:10,080 --> 00:36:13,040
Speaker 1: But Musk like the idea behind Tesla, and he pumped

703
00:36:13,040 --> 00:36:14,960
Speaker 1: in a bunch of funding to become part of the business.

704
00:36:15,200 --> 00:36:17,920
Speaker 1: He also introduced the founders to a genius battery building

705
00:36:17,920 --> 00:36:20,160
Speaker 1: engineer whose research must had helped to fund, so he

706
00:36:20,200 --> 00:36:22,560
Speaker 1: does get some credit. Um. And around the same time,

707
00:36:22,640 --> 00:36:26,040
Speaker 1: Musk also started SpaceX, the company grow out of conversations

708
00:36:26,040 --> 00:36:28,360
Speaker 1: and research that Musk had started to fund between a

709
00:36:28,440 --> 00:36:31,160
Speaker 1: bunch of space nerds. In essence, Elon had money and

710
00:36:31,200 --> 00:36:32,680
Speaker 1: he used a bunch of it to gather a group

711
00:36:32,719 --> 00:36:35,640
Speaker 1: of smart astro nerds together and get them talking. The

712
00:36:35,800 --> 00:36:38,000
Speaker 1: rough goal at first was to try and send mice

713
00:36:38,040 --> 00:36:40,280
Speaker 1: to Mars and then send them back to Earth alive,

714
00:36:40,520 --> 00:36:43,320
Speaker 1: which is a cool idea. The scientists he was talking

715
00:36:43,360 --> 00:36:44,800
Speaker 1: to thought that they could do this for like twenty

716
00:36:44,800 --> 00:36:47,680
Speaker 1: million bucks. The plan gradually evolved into the idea of

717
00:36:47,680 --> 00:36:51,000
Speaker 1: building a robot greenhouse and launching it via rocket to Mars.

718
00:36:51,320 --> 00:36:53,719
Speaker 1: The greenhouse would mix Martian soil with Earth soil and

719
00:36:53,760 --> 00:36:56,120
Speaker 1: squared out tiny bits of oxygen, and in the Martian

720
00:36:56,160 --> 00:36:59,120
Speaker 1: atmosphere would send video feedback to Earth, so people could,

721
00:36:59,239 --> 00:37:02,000
Speaker 1: you know, see plants growing on Mars, which is a

722
00:37:02,000 --> 00:37:04,080
Speaker 1: cool idea. That would be a neat thing to see

723
00:37:04,239 --> 00:37:07,160
Speaker 1: plants growing. Love to watch that. That's the most I've

724
00:37:07,160 --> 00:37:11,359
Speaker 1: ever been interested, uh so far in Yes, what he's

725
00:37:11,400 --> 00:37:15,080
Speaker 1: been inventing, I mean, PayPal it's a fine I guess, no,

726
00:37:15,640 --> 00:37:20,680
Speaker 1: fuck it, it's a cool about this fucking space garden.

727
00:37:20,920 --> 00:37:27,439
Speaker 1: That sounds to bring me a space tomato from Mars. Yeah,

728
00:37:27,440 --> 00:37:31,239
Speaker 1: a space tomato from Mars. You could, honestly, yeah, I

729
00:37:31,280 --> 00:37:34,280
Speaker 1: would kick starter that. Yeah. And when you tell stories

730
00:37:34,320 --> 00:37:36,799
Speaker 1: like that, you can see why space nerds fell in

731
00:37:36,840 --> 00:37:38,960
Speaker 1: love with Elon Musk at this period. That's a fucking

732
00:37:39,000 --> 00:37:41,320
Speaker 1: cool thing to want to do. Um And it's a

733
00:37:41,360 --> 00:37:43,560
Speaker 1: cool thing if you have tens of millions of dollars

734
00:37:43,680 --> 00:37:46,960
Speaker 1: to put money into um. Since Elon had a lot

735
00:37:46,960 --> 00:37:48,920
Speaker 1: of money to spare, like obviously he could actually make

736
00:37:48,920 --> 00:37:51,240
Speaker 1: this happen. He flew to Russia with a rocket scientist

737
00:37:51,239 --> 00:37:53,120
Speaker 1: he knew to see if the Russian government would sell

738
00:37:53,200 --> 00:37:55,120
Speaker 1: him a rocket, and they were totally down to sell

739
00:37:55,160 --> 00:37:58,080
Speaker 1: him a rocket, but they wanted way too much money. Um.

740
00:37:58,239 --> 00:38:01,200
Speaker 1: So yeah, he decided to start SpaceX in order to

741
00:38:01,239 --> 00:38:03,759
Speaker 1: make space travel cheaper and get mankind to Mars. And

742
00:38:03,760 --> 00:38:08,560
Speaker 1: gradually the goal switched from space Garden to make it

743
00:38:08,640 --> 00:38:11,160
Speaker 1: cheaper to get satellites into the air and provide shipped

744
00:38:11,160 --> 00:38:12,799
Speaker 1: to the I S. S. Which is like not a

745
00:38:12,880 --> 00:38:15,239
Speaker 1: not cool thing to do, but it's not as cool

746
00:38:15,280 --> 00:38:17,799
Speaker 1: as space Garden. I think we can all agree on that. No,

747
00:38:18,320 --> 00:38:21,640
Speaker 1: and I can't eat that. That's most spaced tomatoes, you can.

748
00:38:23,560 --> 00:38:25,840
Speaker 1: I mean, they do grow things in the I S S.

749
00:38:25,880 --> 00:38:28,560
Speaker 1: So you can say he's contributing to space tomatoes, but

750
00:38:28,560 --> 00:38:31,399
Speaker 1: he's not contributing to Mars tomatoes. Right now? Yeah, for real,

751
00:38:31,600 --> 00:38:35,479
Speaker 1: where the funk is my Mars Basil? That's why I'm

752
00:38:35,480 --> 00:38:39,400
Speaker 1: waiting for. Yeah, funk, where's our Mars Basil? Elan, you

753
00:38:39,520 --> 00:38:42,319
Speaker 1: fucking asshole, Oh my god, do you think they could

754
00:38:42,360 --> 00:38:46,160
Speaker 1: make way bigger vegetables on Mars because of the weight thing.

755
00:38:46,400 --> 00:38:49,279
Speaker 1: If they could make from what I understand that as

756
00:38:49,280 --> 00:38:52,879
Speaker 1: big as my whole body, holy sh it, you can

757
00:38:52,960 --> 00:38:55,720
Speaker 1: make like giant. You could make a watermelon that reaches

758
00:38:55,800 --> 00:38:57,839
Speaker 1: from Mars to the Earth and then we could eat

759
00:38:57,840 --> 00:39:00,360
Speaker 1: our way to Mars inside of a water melon that

760
00:39:00,440 --> 00:39:08,279
Speaker 1: protects us from space. Dude. Finally behind yes, giants space watermelon,

761
00:39:09,160 --> 00:39:14,160
Speaker 1: space giant giant space elevator made out of a watermelon.

762
00:39:14,719 --> 00:39:19,080
Speaker 1: Hell yeah. So um Musk has been pretty adamant from

763
00:39:19,080 --> 00:39:21,040
Speaker 1: the beginning that his goal with SpaceX was to make

764
00:39:21,080 --> 00:39:23,800
Speaker 1: space travel cheaper and get mankind of Mars. That's always

765
00:39:23,880 --> 00:39:26,600
Speaker 1: like the dream, like everything, Like he always emphasizes, like

766
00:39:26,640 --> 00:39:28,400
Speaker 1: the goal is to get human beings to Mars so

767
00:39:28,440 --> 00:39:31,680
Speaker 1: that we can become like an interplanetary society and you know,

768
00:39:31,800 --> 00:39:34,799
Speaker 1: not get wiped out by a fucking rock or whatever. Um,

769
00:39:34,880 --> 00:39:37,759
Speaker 1: And that's like the that's like the pitch that he's

770
00:39:37,800 --> 00:39:40,840
Speaker 1: gotten very good at giving. Um and both of Elon's

771
00:39:40,880 --> 00:39:42,959
Speaker 1: big two companies that he founded with his eBay money

772
00:39:42,960 --> 00:39:45,760
Speaker 1: have dreams like this from the beginning, Even before Elon,

773
00:39:45,840 --> 00:39:49,239
Speaker 1: Tesla's goal was to make sweet luxury electric cars and

774
00:39:49,280 --> 00:39:51,000
Speaker 1: use that money in the lessons from it to drive

775
00:39:51,040 --> 00:39:53,040
Speaker 1: down the cost of building an electric car that could

776
00:39:53,040 --> 00:39:55,839
Speaker 1: dominate the US auto market. Now, there is a big

777
00:39:55,840 --> 00:39:57,520
Speaker 1: debate to be had as to whether or not either

778
00:39:57,600 --> 00:39:59,919
Speaker 1: SpaceX or Tesla have ever had a chance of contr

779
00:40:00,040 --> 00:40:02,560
Speaker 1: beating to the grand goals set for them. They certainly

780
00:40:02,560 --> 00:40:05,200
Speaker 1: have not achieved them um, and we'll discuss that a

781
00:40:05,200 --> 00:40:07,640
Speaker 1: little later. But the fact that both of the companies

782
00:40:07,640 --> 00:40:10,680
Speaker 1: were started with species life and death as the stakes

783
00:40:11,040 --> 00:40:13,880
Speaker 1: um had some benefits for Elon. For one thing, they

784
00:40:13,920 --> 00:40:16,400
Speaker 1: allowed him to inspire and motivate his work place with

785
00:40:16,480 --> 00:40:19,000
Speaker 1: things beyond money. So you can have your workers work

786
00:40:19,080 --> 00:40:22,120
Speaker 1: themselves into an early grave if they think they're saving

787
00:40:22,160 --> 00:40:24,279
Speaker 1: the world, whereas it's hard to do that if they

788
00:40:24,280 --> 00:40:28,479
Speaker 1: think they're making the Yellow Pages. Right. Um, that's one

789
00:40:28,520 --> 00:40:31,880
Speaker 1: benefit to a guy like Ellen. Um. The other benefit

790
00:40:31,920 --> 00:40:33,919
Speaker 1: is that, like he didn't really want to make either

791
00:40:33,960 --> 00:40:37,200
Speaker 1: of these companies public, especially not early, because that means

792
00:40:37,239 --> 00:40:39,480
Speaker 1: you lose control if you have a public company of

793
00:40:39,560 --> 00:40:42,040
Speaker 1: less control than a private company, and Ellen is a

794
00:40:42,040 --> 00:40:46,160
Speaker 1: big control guy. UM. So again, focusing on saving the

795
00:40:46,239 --> 00:40:48,759
Speaker 1: human race is the goal for both companies allowed him

796
00:40:48,760 --> 00:40:52,960
Speaker 1: to justify keeping control, which meant less money for his workers.

797
00:40:53,280 --> 00:40:55,600
Speaker 1: Uh meant they didn't get to cash out their stock options,

798
00:40:55,880 --> 00:40:57,760
Speaker 1: but also meant that he had the control he needed

799
00:40:57,760 --> 00:41:00,280
Speaker 1: to see these dreams through and it makes it easier

800
00:41:00,320 --> 00:41:03,240
Speaker 1: to sell people on that. From the beginning, both companies

801
00:41:03,239 --> 00:41:05,800
Speaker 1: were based entirely off of the work and genius inventions

802
00:41:05,800 --> 00:41:08,799
Speaker 1: of other people. Tesla's founder, a guy named eber Hard,

803
00:41:09,000 --> 00:41:11,600
Speaker 1: was a brilliant and is he's still alive, a brilliant engineer.

804
00:41:11,840 --> 00:41:15,000
Speaker 1: SpaceX relied on a huge crop of genius rocket engineers.

805
00:41:15,280 --> 00:41:18,280
Speaker 1: Musk did make his contributions, and he is a talented engineer,

806
00:41:18,280 --> 00:41:20,799
Speaker 1: and on the engineering side he did some meaningful things,

807
00:41:20,800 --> 00:41:23,360
Speaker 1: but they were also a mixed bag. For example, he

808
00:41:23,400 --> 00:41:26,520
Speaker 1: insisted the Tesla Roadster have a carbon fiber body, which

809
00:41:26,560 --> 00:41:29,520
Speaker 1: necessitated a specific sort of paint. The paint happens to

810
00:41:29,520 --> 00:41:31,480
Speaker 1: be very toxic, which has led to Tesla being fine

811
00:41:31,560 --> 00:41:33,560
Speaker 1: tens of thousands of dollars by the State of California

812
00:41:33,600 --> 00:41:36,480
Speaker 1: for polluting the air with land with toxic waste. So

813
00:41:36,560 --> 00:41:42,080
Speaker 1: that's good. Carbon fiber is cool. Can't make an omelet

814
00:41:42,360 --> 00:41:47,000
Speaker 1: without ruining all of the chickens ability to make eggs.

815
00:41:48,360 --> 00:41:52,400
Speaker 1: That is a very true statement. Sophia Musk is a

816
00:41:52,440 --> 00:41:54,719
Speaker 1: hands on boss, and it's clearly important to him that

817
00:41:54,760 --> 00:41:56,560
Speaker 1: he'd be seen as one of, if not the leading

818
00:41:56,600 --> 00:41:59,800
Speaker 1: minds behind both of his big businesses, signature products and

819
00:41:59,840 --> 00:42:02,120
Speaker 1: to those. In five Tesla got its first New York

820
00:42:02,160 --> 00:42:05,359
Speaker 1: Times coverage. It was very positive about company founder eber

821
00:42:05,400 --> 00:42:08,000
Speaker 1: Hard and the other genius engineers, but it completely ignored

822
00:42:08,080 --> 00:42:12,120
Speaker 1: Ellen when if Tesla's early employees later said, we tried

823
00:42:12,160 --> 00:42:14,279
Speaker 1: to emphasize him and told the reporter about him over

824
00:42:14,320 --> 00:42:16,479
Speaker 1: and over again, but they weren't interested in the board

825
00:42:16,480 --> 00:42:19,400
Speaker 1: of the company. Ellen was furious he was living. But

826
00:42:19,520 --> 00:42:24,840
Speaker 1: nobody puts Ellen in the corner. Okay, no, not ever.

827
00:42:25,680 --> 00:42:28,239
Speaker 1: The early buzz around Tesla was very positive, and they

828
00:42:28,280 --> 00:42:30,399
Speaker 1: were huge problems with the car behind the scenes, though,

829
00:42:30,640 --> 00:42:33,279
Speaker 1: which you'd expect because it's like a hard thing to do.

830
00:42:34,000 --> 00:42:37,200
Speaker 1: The product was laid repeatedly, and it had issues that

831
00:42:37,280 --> 00:42:39,160
Speaker 1: kept cropping up with the transmission and the body, and

832
00:42:39,200 --> 00:42:42,840
Speaker 1: the cost ballooned, YadA, YadA. It became very clear eventually

833
00:42:42,840 --> 00:42:46,359
Speaker 1: that Tesla's early engineers had wildly underestimated what their car

834
00:42:46,360 --> 00:42:48,759
Speaker 1: would cost. To make, and they had sold hundreds of

835
00:42:48,760 --> 00:42:51,040
Speaker 1: pre ordered cars at a price way less than what

836
00:42:51,080 --> 00:42:52,839
Speaker 1: the car would actually cost to make. I think they

837
00:42:52,840 --> 00:42:54,560
Speaker 1: were selling them for like ninety thousand, and they found

838
00:42:54,560 --> 00:42:56,400
Speaker 1: out it was gonna cost a hundred and seventy grand

839
00:42:56,440 --> 00:42:59,760
Speaker 1: per vehicle. Um. And Musk had been the guy largely

840
00:43:00,160 --> 00:43:02,200
Speaker 1: delivering the big speeches that had sold a lot of

841
00:43:02,200 --> 00:43:04,440
Speaker 1: these cars and hyping them up, But he hadn't been

842
00:43:04,440 --> 00:43:07,839
Speaker 1: the guy that was responsible for fucking up the cost calculation. Um.

843
00:43:07,920 --> 00:43:09,799
Speaker 1: That was eber Hard, and he does seem to have

844
00:43:09,880 --> 00:43:12,640
Speaker 1: genuinely really fucked up at estimating what these cars would

845
00:43:12,640 --> 00:43:15,000
Speaker 1: cost to make. And Musk used this funk up as

846
00:43:15,000 --> 00:43:18,640
Speaker 1: an opportunity to push the company founder out as CEO,

847
00:43:18,880 --> 00:43:22,040
Speaker 1: and so Ellen finally got to be CEO. Uh. There's

848
00:43:22,080 --> 00:43:24,319
Speaker 1: certainly a case to be made that he was this

849
00:43:24,400 --> 00:43:26,560
Speaker 1: was the right thing to do. Many early Tesla people

850
00:43:26,560 --> 00:43:28,719
Speaker 1: will say that Eberhard did funk up badly and he

851
00:43:28,760 --> 00:43:31,319
Speaker 1: needed to be ousted at that point. Um. And you

852
00:43:31,320 --> 00:43:33,160
Speaker 1: could say he needed to be ousted as badly as

853
00:43:33,239 --> 00:43:35,480
Speaker 1: Ellen needed to be ousted in ordered for PayPal to

854
00:43:35,520 --> 00:43:38,120
Speaker 1: be a success. But the whole endeavor led a tremendous

855
00:43:38,120 --> 00:43:40,440
Speaker 1: bad blood between Eberhard and Musk, and the two men

856
00:43:40,480 --> 00:43:44,920
Speaker 1: would snipe at each other for many years after that point. Um,

857
00:43:44,960 --> 00:43:47,560
Speaker 1: now this is another thing I've seen folks online come

858
00:43:47,600 --> 00:43:49,400
Speaker 1: after Musk four and I don't I don't like like

859
00:43:49,440 --> 00:43:51,239
Speaker 1: the fact that he stole the company from this guy.

860
00:43:51,280 --> 00:43:53,080
Speaker 1: I don't know. It's debatable as to whether or not

861
00:43:53,200 --> 00:43:55,719
Speaker 1: he did the right thing. He probably did the right

862
00:43:55,760 --> 00:43:59,080
Speaker 1: thing for making Tesla into a profitable company. Uh, what's

863
00:43:59,200 --> 00:44:01,319
Speaker 1: not debate bole is how fucked up it is that

864
00:44:01,360 --> 00:44:04,200
Speaker 1: Elon Musk gets credit for building all of these wonderful

865
00:44:04,239 --> 00:44:08,560
Speaker 1: devices that he did not build. A January article got

866
00:44:08,560 --> 00:44:11,480
Speaker 1: the title how Elon Musk built a Tesla factory in

867
00:44:11,560 --> 00:44:14,120
Speaker 1: China in less than a year. Obviously he didn't. He

868
00:44:14,480 --> 00:44:17,320
Speaker 1: never built a factory his life. In September two tho nineteen,

869
00:44:17,360 --> 00:44:20,239
Speaker 1: Courts published an article titled Elon Musk is designing his

870
00:44:20,320 --> 00:44:22,640
Speaker 1: rocket as fast as he can or undesigning. It was

871
00:44:22,680 --> 00:44:24,440
Speaker 1: making a point about how he thinks, but like it

872
00:44:24,520 --> 00:44:28,359
Speaker 1: still gives the credit to him for like making this rocket. Uh,

873
00:44:28,440 --> 00:44:30,480
Speaker 1: Musk gets a lot of credit in general for the

874
00:44:30,480 --> 00:44:33,160
Speaker 1: wonders that his companies have produced in a two thousand

875
00:44:33,200 --> 00:44:36,360
Speaker 1: seventeen Rolling Stone article, Neil Strauss opened by noting that

876
00:44:36,440 --> 00:44:39,000
Speaker 1: Musk has not yet achieved either of the incredibly lofty

877
00:44:39,000 --> 00:44:41,760
Speaker 1: goals he's set for tests that or SpaceX, but quote,

878
00:44:42,040 --> 00:44:44,000
Speaker 1: what he has done is something that very few living

879
00:44:44,040 --> 00:44:48,000
Speaker 1: people can claim. Painstakingly bulldozed with no experience whatsoever into

880
00:44:48,000 --> 00:44:51,719
Speaker 1: two fields with ridiculously high barriers to entry, car manufacturing

881
00:44:51,719 --> 00:44:54,320
Speaker 1: and rocketry, and created the best products in those industries

882
00:44:54,520 --> 00:44:56,880
Speaker 1: and measured by just about any meaningful metric you can

883
00:44:56,920 --> 00:44:59,080
Speaker 1: think of. In the process, he's managed to sell the

884
00:44:59,080 --> 00:45:01,640
Speaker 1: world on his ability achieve objectives so lofty that from

885
00:45:01,680 --> 00:45:04,879
Speaker 1: the mouth of anyone else they'd be called fantasies. And

886
00:45:05,800 --> 00:45:09,759
Speaker 1: that's frustrating to me, because, uh, he did jump in

887
00:45:09,800 --> 00:45:12,960
Speaker 1: without any experience to do very difficult, interesting industries, but

888
00:45:13,080 --> 00:45:19,759
Speaker 1: he didn't create those fucking products. Um And yeah, it's frustrating.

889
00:45:19,800 --> 00:45:22,560
Speaker 1: It's frustrating that the writers of Star Trek Discovery saw

890
00:45:22,600 --> 00:45:24,960
Speaker 1: fit to give Elon Musk credit as a brilliant inventor.

891
00:45:25,000 --> 00:45:26,879
Speaker 1: They listed him next to the inventor of the warp

892
00:45:26,960 --> 00:45:29,600
Speaker 1: drives that from Cochran as a genius scientific mind, which

893
00:45:29,600 --> 00:45:32,239
Speaker 1: is bullsit Ship se from Cochrane lived through World War

894
00:45:32,400 --> 00:45:34,160
Speaker 1: Three and made a fucking I mean, he's a fake guy,

895
00:45:34,160 --> 00:45:36,120
Speaker 1: but whatever. It's bullshit to put Elon Musk at that

896
00:45:36,200 --> 00:45:40,160
Speaker 1: level because he's not a genius fucking inventor. Um. It

897
00:45:40,280 --> 00:45:41,960
Speaker 1: is fair, I think, based on what I've read to

898
00:45:42,000 --> 00:45:45,799
Speaker 1: say that he's probably contributes more to the development of

899
00:45:45,880 --> 00:45:49,040
Speaker 1: his products than most CEOs do, but he is also

900
00:45:49,160 --> 00:45:52,520
Speaker 1: not just sitting there making them as a general rule.

901
00:45:53,000 --> 00:45:55,840
Speaker 1: Ashley advanced. His book goes into the into tremendous detail

902
00:45:55,880 --> 00:45:59,799
Speaker 1: about the incredible sacrifices that space X Rocket Engineers UH

903
00:46:00,080 --> 00:46:03,200
Speaker 1: made to build the company's first successful rocket. They did

904
00:46:03,200 --> 00:46:05,399
Speaker 1: it in like this this island off of the coast

905
00:46:05,440 --> 00:46:08,560
Speaker 1: of Hawaii, and like lived on this primitive, humid like

906
00:46:08,719 --> 00:46:11,960
Speaker 1: base for years that like didn't have like things that

907
00:46:12,000 --> 00:46:14,560
Speaker 1: people normally need to have to be comfortable. They didn't

908
00:46:14,560 --> 00:46:16,759
Speaker 1: see their family for like months or even years at

909
00:46:16,760 --> 00:46:19,680
Speaker 1: a time. They sacrifice their health and social life because

910
00:46:19,680 --> 00:46:22,640
Speaker 1: these like they believed in the dream of human space flight.

911
00:46:22,800 --> 00:46:27,000
Speaker 1: We're back, uh, listeners will hear this is seamless, but

912
00:46:27,040 --> 00:46:30,319
Speaker 1: we just had an interruption for a mystery, and none

913
00:46:30,360 --> 00:46:33,040
Speaker 1: of you will ever know and it's a it's it's

914
00:46:33,040 --> 00:46:37,920
Speaker 1: a you won't We're not gonna tell. Sorry, suckers, suckers,

915
00:46:38,960 --> 00:46:45,160
Speaker 1: suckers liking my work, said, suckers, But you really went hard.

916
00:46:45,600 --> 00:46:49,760
Speaker 1: I turned it into learned. Yeah. The key to keeping

917
00:46:49,800 --> 00:46:52,280
Speaker 1: an audience is to be like a little bit abusive

918
00:46:52,320 --> 00:46:55,200
Speaker 1: to them, you know, like negging. You need the audience.

919
00:46:55,320 --> 00:46:57,960
Speaker 1: I think when you do that, because they feel like

920
00:46:58,320 --> 00:47:00,839
Speaker 1: he knows we can take it, We're to and then

921
00:47:00,840 --> 00:47:03,480
Speaker 1: they send you more knives. It's weird. You guys have

922
00:47:03,560 --> 00:47:06,920
Speaker 1: a beautiful love it they do. I abuse them and

923
00:47:06,960 --> 00:47:09,879
Speaker 1: they send me knives. And that is the healthiest relationship

924
00:47:09,920 --> 00:47:14,880
Speaker 1: in my life. If anybody wants to send Robert a

925
00:47:14,960 --> 00:47:17,440
Speaker 1: knife for me, I would take it. Just step why

926
00:47:17,520 --> 00:47:24,200
Speaker 1: I Sophia, I was not considered in this factor. But okay, uh, Sophie,

927
00:47:24,200 --> 00:47:26,839
Speaker 1: do you want a knife? No? No, no, that I'm not.

928
00:47:26,880 --> 00:47:29,759
Speaker 1: I've given you so many nice relationships that I wasn't

929
00:47:29,880 --> 00:47:35,440
Speaker 1: part of that, and it's most functional all your podcast. Yeah,

930
00:47:36,520 --> 00:47:40,280
Speaker 1: I know, I know. See that's because I habitually torpedo

931
00:47:40,440 --> 00:47:46,480
Speaker 1: my relationships. But that's how it works. Were great, you

932
00:47:46,480 --> 00:47:49,080
Speaker 1: know the problem. The real problem with this line of

933
00:47:49,160 --> 00:47:51,560
Speaker 1: jokes Sophia is that if you start getting mailed a

934
00:47:51,560 --> 00:47:53,480
Speaker 1: bunch of knives, you're not gonna know if it's because

935
00:47:53,480 --> 00:47:56,279
Speaker 1: Elon Musk fans want you dead or because they really

936
00:47:56,400 --> 00:48:00,719
Speaker 1: enjoyed your performance. Okay, okay, let me amend my request.

937
00:48:00,880 --> 00:48:03,520
Speaker 1: You can send a knife for Robert for me if

938
00:48:03,520 --> 00:48:07,600
Speaker 1: it includes Oh I see, that's badass. I'd love that.

939
00:48:08,520 --> 00:48:10,440
Speaker 1: Just so I know it's not aggressive. You can like

940
00:48:10,560 --> 00:48:12,400
Speaker 1: draw a happy face on it if you want, or

941
00:48:12,440 --> 00:48:14,840
Speaker 1: just include a little with a happy face so I

942
00:48:14,840 --> 00:48:19,880
Speaker 1: know it's like a non threatening gift. Send her knives

943
00:48:19,960 --> 00:48:24,080
Speaker 1: and smiley faces, which is the totally non threatening gift

944
00:48:24,480 --> 00:48:27,919
Speaker 1: is knives in pictures of smiling faces. Everyone, No one's

945
00:48:27,960 --> 00:48:32,520
Speaker 1: creeped out by that at all. Let's move on. Hey,

946
00:48:32,520 --> 00:48:37,040
Speaker 1: I know what I like. Yeah, So the thing I

947
00:48:37,080 --> 00:48:39,680
Speaker 1: want to emphasize is, like, again, muskets all this credit

948
00:48:39,719 --> 00:48:42,640
Speaker 1: for like he made like he's a rocket engineer, he

949
00:48:42,680 --> 00:48:45,800
Speaker 1: like made these incredible space things, and it's like, I think,

950
00:48:46,000 --> 00:48:48,680
Speaker 1: like there's a lot that actually is objectively incredible about

951
00:48:48,719 --> 00:48:51,120
Speaker 1: SpaceX is rockets, including the fact that they like are

952
00:48:51,160 --> 00:48:53,600
Speaker 1: capable of kind of piloting themselves back to the guard.

953
00:48:53,600 --> 00:48:56,520
Speaker 1: A lot of cool stuff has been done by engineers

954
00:48:56,560 --> 00:48:59,839
Speaker 1: at SpaceX who are brilliant rocket designers and who sack

955
00:48:59,920 --> 00:49:02,319
Speaker 1: or fist an enormous amount. Again, these guys had to

956
00:49:02,360 --> 00:49:06,359
Speaker 1: live for years unlike an island base, with like very

957
00:49:06,400 --> 00:49:09,040
Speaker 1: little in the way of comforts, like ignoring their families,

958
00:49:09,040 --> 00:49:11,319
Speaker 1: because there were people who believed in this dream of

959
00:49:11,320 --> 00:49:15,000
Speaker 1: getting to Mars and like sacrificed huge chunks of their

960
00:49:15,000 --> 00:49:19,640
Speaker 1: youth to make these rockets work. It was an incredibly laborious,

961
00:49:19,880 --> 00:49:23,759
Speaker 1: nightmarish process in some ways, and they did it. And

962
00:49:23,840 --> 00:49:26,680
Speaker 1: Musk was sitting in California watching test launches on closed

963
00:49:26,680 --> 00:49:29,160
Speaker 1: circuit video and hyping up the company. Which is not

964
00:49:29,200 --> 00:49:32,040
Speaker 1: to say that like as a CEO, he's not thinking

965
00:49:32,080 --> 00:49:33,600
Speaker 1: probably make the case that he's one of the more

966
00:49:33,680 --> 00:49:36,560
Speaker 1: valuable CEOs out there, which I also think he's still

967
00:49:36,640 --> 00:49:39,560
Speaker 1: very overvalued. But anyway, it's frustrated to me that he

968
00:49:39,600 --> 00:49:41,719
Speaker 1: gets so much credit and all these fucking engineers and

969
00:49:41,760 --> 00:49:45,000
Speaker 1: the guy's actually doing the cool work but whatever, um yeah,

970
00:49:45,080 --> 00:49:47,279
Speaker 1: Must gets. The thing that's frustrating me most is that

971
00:49:47,360 --> 00:49:49,560
Speaker 1: Must gets the credit for the successes of his workers

972
00:49:49,560 --> 00:49:52,040
Speaker 1: while being able to blame them for his or for

973
00:49:52,719 --> 00:49:55,680
Speaker 1: the failures of the company. One example of this came

974
00:49:55,719 --> 00:49:59,080
Speaker 1: in March six. SpaceX had an important launch of its

975
00:49:59,080 --> 00:50:02,040
Speaker 1: Falcon one rocket. The rocket wound up like fucking up

976
00:50:02,040 --> 00:50:04,600
Speaker 1: and blowing up and ship. Uh so it didn't work out,

977
00:50:04,640 --> 00:50:06,959
Speaker 1: and this was made them push like the date because

978
00:50:06,960 --> 00:50:09,200
Speaker 1: they had like contracts and stuff to put stuff into

979
00:50:09,200 --> 00:50:11,080
Speaker 1: space and they couldn't get their rocket to actually work.

980
00:50:11,880 --> 00:50:14,719
Speaker 1: Because Elon Musky used to build that those rockets when

981
00:50:14,760 --> 00:50:17,399
Speaker 1: he was a kid with explosives and was like, I'm

982
00:50:17,440 --> 00:50:20,520
Speaker 1: lucky I kept my fingers. Yeah, you're gonna put that

983
00:50:20,560 --> 00:50:24,120
Speaker 1: guy in charge of your rocket. Yeah. He wasn't really

984
00:50:24,160 --> 00:50:27,319
Speaker 1: like it was engineers and stuff who were like, it's

985
00:50:27,360 --> 00:50:31,000
Speaker 1: it's hard to do. It's hard to do there anyway

986
00:50:31,440 --> 00:50:36,520
Speaker 1: rocket science Robert I am aware. Yeah, yeah, yeah, well,

987
00:50:36,520 --> 00:50:39,480
Speaker 1: and like you would think a good boss would be like, no,

988
00:50:39,600 --> 00:50:42,279
Speaker 1: it's fucking hard, Like it's nobody's fault. This is going

989
00:50:42,320 --> 00:50:44,359
Speaker 1: to take some time to get right and like it

990
00:50:44,400 --> 00:50:47,200
Speaker 1: didn't work this time, but we're going to get it right. Um.

991
00:50:47,280 --> 00:50:49,520
Speaker 1: And that's kind of what Elon Musk like put out

992
00:50:49,560 --> 00:50:52,840
Speaker 1: to the world. But he also needed a scapegoat to

993
00:50:52,880 --> 00:50:55,200
Speaker 1: blame for the investors and so he picked one of

994
00:50:55,239 --> 00:50:58,640
Speaker 1: his hard working engineers who had been sacrificing his youth

995
00:50:58,719 --> 00:51:01,200
Speaker 1: out on an island um in a very unfair way.

996
00:51:01,200 --> 00:51:03,400
Speaker 1: And I'm gonna quote from Ashley vans Now. Musk and

997
00:51:03,400 --> 00:51:06,640
Speaker 1: other SpaceX executives blamed the crash on an onion named technician.

998
00:51:06,800 --> 00:51:08,520
Speaker 1: They said this technician had done some work on the

999
00:51:08,600 --> 00:51:10,760
Speaker 1: rocket one day before the launch and failed to properly

1000
00:51:10,800 --> 00:51:12,920
Speaker 1: tighten the fitting on a fuel pipe, which caused the

1001
00:51:12,960 --> 00:51:15,440
Speaker 1: fitting to crack. The fitting in question was something basic

1002
00:51:15,480 --> 00:51:17,640
Speaker 1: and aluminum b nut that's often used to connect a

1003
00:51:17,640 --> 00:51:19,960
Speaker 1: pair of tubes. The technician was Holman, who was like

1004
00:51:20,000 --> 00:51:21,960
Speaker 1: one of the guys living out there. In the aftermath

1005
00:51:21,960 --> 00:51:24,239
Speaker 1: of the rocket crash, Holman flew to Los Angeles to

1006
00:51:24,280 --> 00:51:27,359
Speaker 1: confront Musk directly. He'd spent years working day and night

1007
00:51:27,400 --> 00:51:29,759
Speaker 1: on the Falcon one and felt enraged that Musk had

1008
00:51:29,800 --> 00:51:32,960
Speaker 1: called out him and his team in public. Holman knew

1009
00:51:32,960 --> 00:51:35,520
Speaker 1: that he'd fastened the b nut correctly and that observers

1010
00:51:35,560 --> 00:51:37,719
Speaker 1: from NASA had been looking over his shoulder to check

1011
00:51:37,760 --> 00:51:40,640
Speaker 1: the work. When Holman charged into SpaceX's headquarters with a

1012
00:51:40,640 --> 00:51:44,080
Speaker 1: head full of fury. Mary Beth Brown, Musk secretary tried

1013
00:51:44,120 --> 00:51:46,440
Speaker 1: to calm him and stop him from seeing Musk. Holman

1014
00:51:46,520 --> 00:51:48,319
Speaker 1: kept going anyway, and the two of them proceeded to

1015
00:51:48,320 --> 00:51:52,480
Speaker 1: have a shouting match at Musk's cubicle. Now, later investigation

1016
00:51:52,520 --> 00:51:54,600
Speaker 1: proved that Holman had done nothing wrong. The culprit was

1017
00:51:54,600 --> 00:51:57,480
Speaker 1: the aluminum body of the rocket. Another board member later

1018
00:51:57,560 --> 00:52:00,120
Speaker 1: admitted that Holman quote kind of got blamed so they

1019
00:52:00,160 --> 00:52:02,400
Speaker 1: could get out an answer to the investors as to

1020
00:52:02,440 --> 00:52:05,959
Speaker 1: why the launch had not worked. And that's fucking shitty.

1021
00:52:06,040 --> 00:52:08,880
Speaker 1: And that's one thing that pisces me off about Elon Musk,

1022
00:52:09,200 --> 00:52:11,879
Speaker 1: because he gets a lot of credit when the rockets work,

1023
00:52:12,000 --> 00:52:14,239
Speaker 1: and he finds a hard working person to blame when

1024
00:52:14,239 --> 00:52:17,640
Speaker 1: they don't. That's bullshit. It's like, yeah, literally the opposite

1025
00:52:17,680 --> 00:52:21,400
Speaker 1: of good leadership. When you're a leader, you take credit

1026
00:52:21,480 --> 00:52:26,880
Speaker 1: for both. You know, it's the it's the responsibility of

1027
00:52:26,880 --> 00:52:28,960
Speaker 1: of being the head of something. You take credit for

1028
00:52:29,000 --> 00:52:30,920
Speaker 1: the good and the bad, and you shield your people

1029
00:52:30,960 --> 00:52:33,399
Speaker 1: who work for you. I would go so far as

1030
00:52:33,440 --> 00:52:35,880
Speaker 1: to say that a great leader takes credit for the

1031
00:52:35,960 --> 00:52:40,600
Speaker 1: bad and gives credit to his subordinates for the good stuff.

1032
00:52:40,880 --> 00:52:43,719
Speaker 1: That's a really good leader that doesn't exist in the

1033
00:52:43,719 --> 00:52:47,719
Speaker 1: tech world. So it was not even trying to go

1034
00:52:47,840 --> 00:52:50,399
Speaker 1: that yeah Hi, I was like, just be a good

1035
00:52:50,440 --> 00:52:53,359
Speaker 1: at decent boss and be like, yeah, the funk up

1036
00:52:53,400 --> 00:52:56,360
Speaker 1: is also on me. If you're gonna take credit for

1037
00:52:56,400 --> 00:52:59,240
Speaker 1: the good ship and when you are really a great leader,

1038
00:52:59,600 --> 00:53:02,080
Speaker 1: your subordinates will make sure that you get a lot

1039
00:53:02,080 --> 00:53:04,759
Speaker 1: of credit for the good stuff that happens. You don't

1040
00:53:04,800 --> 00:53:07,640
Speaker 1: do that yourself because that's being a dick. But anyway, whatever,

1041
00:53:07,719 --> 00:53:10,399
Speaker 1: fuck it. Uh So Mary Beth Brown, let's talk about

1042
00:53:10,440 --> 00:53:12,759
Speaker 1: Mary Beth Brown. But he's not gonna stop being a dick,

1043
00:53:12,920 --> 00:53:15,279
Speaker 1: right because his social skills are just not very good

1044
00:53:15,320 --> 00:53:17,480
Speaker 1: as we've known like the whole time. Speaking of that,

1045
00:53:17,840 --> 00:53:22,000
Speaker 1: let's talk about his relationship with Mary Beth Brown. So,

1046
00:53:22,040 --> 00:53:24,560
Speaker 1: Mary Beth Brown was Musk's assistant at both SpaceX and

1047
00:53:24,600 --> 00:53:27,640
Speaker 1: Tesla from the beginning of both companies, and basically everybody

1048
00:53:27,640 --> 00:53:30,080
Speaker 1: who spent any time around either company in this period

1049
00:53:30,120 --> 00:53:32,760
Speaker 1: will agree that she was absolutely critical to both success.

1050
00:53:33,080 --> 00:53:36,560
Speaker 1: Ashley Evance describes her as Musk's Pepper pots Um because

1051
00:53:36,560 --> 00:53:40,040
Speaker 1: there's a lot of fucking iron man uh tony start

1052
00:53:40,080 --> 00:53:42,520
Speaker 1: comparisons that made the Musk and for years she was

1053
00:53:42,560 --> 00:53:45,480
Speaker 1: the gateway to Elon Musk and his mediator because again,

1054
00:53:45,640 --> 00:53:47,880
Speaker 1: like you were just bringing up, he has no social skills.

1055
00:53:48,040 --> 00:53:49,840
Speaker 1: So she would keep people away from him when he

1056
00:53:49,880 --> 00:53:52,640
Speaker 1: was in a bad mood and unable to productively engage,

1057
00:53:52,719 --> 00:53:54,239
Speaker 1: and she would like tell people when it was a

1058
00:53:54,239 --> 00:53:56,279
Speaker 1: good line to talk to him because she was under

1059
00:53:56,360 --> 00:53:58,839
Speaker 1: She was like the Musk whisper. She brought him his meal,

1060
00:53:59,000 --> 00:54:01,640
Speaker 1: she scheduled his time, him with his children, She picked

1061
00:54:01,640 --> 00:54:04,400
Speaker 1: out his clothes. She was his fucking mom. That was

1062
00:54:04,440 --> 00:54:08,040
Speaker 1: her job, right, That is so sad. I always felt

1063
00:54:08,040 --> 00:54:11,880
Speaker 1: so sad for Pepper and those fucking movies. Yeah, it's

1064
00:54:11,880 --> 00:54:14,719
Speaker 1: a bummer. Uh And it's a bummer. Yeah. I mean,

1065
00:54:14,760 --> 00:54:17,719
Speaker 1: at least he didn't have a weird relationship with her,

1066
00:54:17,760 --> 00:54:20,399
Speaker 1: I guess, but it was weird anyway, that that's a thing.

1067
00:54:20,440 --> 00:54:22,480
Speaker 1: But also he was like a fucking man child, as

1068
00:54:22,520 --> 00:54:25,759
Speaker 1: all of these tech guys are. So. Vance credits Mary

1069
00:54:25,800 --> 00:54:28,560
Speaker 1: Beth Brown for helping to set up SpaceX's early culture

1070
00:54:28,600 --> 00:54:31,080
Speaker 1: and asking as a bomb whenever Musk would ruffle feathers

1071
00:54:31,080 --> 00:54:33,560
Speaker 1: and hurt anyone in any like a key a key

1072
00:54:33,560 --> 00:54:36,879
Speaker 1: employees feelings. She worked twenty hour days when Elon worked

1073
00:54:36,880 --> 00:54:39,080
Speaker 1: twenty hour days. She traveled with him when he would

1074
00:54:39,080 --> 00:54:40,680
Speaker 1: because he would he spends like two days a week

1075
00:54:40,719 --> 00:54:42,360
Speaker 1: in l A, two days a week in San Francisco,

1076
00:54:42,440 --> 00:54:44,839
Speaker 1: had his other company like he traveled around all the time,

1077
00:54:44,880 --> 00:54:47,920
Speaker 1: So she this was like a fucking nightmare job. Um

1078
00:54:47,960 --> 00:54:50,239
Speaker 1: that she must have been obviously debt. She bought into

1079
00:54:50,239 --> 00:54:51,840
Speaker 1: the beliefs of the company, and it seems to be

1080
00:54:51,880 --> 00:54:54,120
Speaker 1: widely agreed that she was a very important part of

1081
00:54:54,120 --> 00:54:58,400
Speaker 1: both companies, especially as they started off. Um she played

1082
00:54:58,400 --> 00:55:01,280
Speaker 1: a huge role in in the that both were a success,

1083
00:55:01,680 --> 00:55:04,240
Speaker 1: and Elon Musk fired her in two thousand and fourteen.

1084
00:55:04,920 --> 00:55:07,280
Speaker 1: The story goes that she finally worked up the courage

1085
00:55:07,320 --> 00:55:09,880
Speaker 1: to ask Musk to be paid a salary in line

1086
00:55:09,920 --> 00:55:13,040
Speaker 1: with what the top executives at SpaceX were paid. Shouldn't.

1087
00:55:13,080 --> 00:55:15,239
Speaker 1: She was one of the longest serving employees and a

1088
00:55:15,320 --> 00:55:17,360
Speaker 1: key part of the operation, and was forced to like

1089
00:55:17,680 --> 00:55:21,880
Speaker 1: live Elon's unreasonable schedule. She thought this was fair. Musk

1090
00:55:21,920 --> 00:55:23,759
Speaker 1: told her to go take a vacation and he would

1091
00:55:23,800 --> 00:55:26,319
Speaker 1: do her job himself and decide if he really needed her.

1092
00:55:26,520 --> 00:55:28,480
Speaker 1: When she came back, he told her that she was

1093
00:55:28,560 --> 00:55:33,120
Speaker 1: unnecessary and fired her without ceremony. So that's cool. I

1094
00:55:33,120 --> 00:55:36,279
Speaker 1: remember reading about that and being like, that is the

1095
00:55:36,400 --> 00:55:41,000
Speaker 1: most insulting way to fire someone that's given so much

1096
00:55:41,040 --> 00:55:44,319
Speaker 1: of their time and life to you. To just make

1097
00:55:44,360 --> 00:55:47,720
Speaker 1: sure that they know that you think they're worthless before

1098
00:55:47,719 --> 00:55:52,080
Speaker 1: you let them go. That is so shitty for no reason. Yeah,

1099
00:55:52,160 --> 00:55:53,920
Speaker 1: to not just say like, well, I'm not going to

1100
00:55:54,040 --> 00:55:55,440
Speaker 1: do this and I don't need you anymore, but like,

1101
00:55:55,480 --> 00:55:58,920
Speaker 1: but first I'm going to devalue the decade that you sacrifice.

1102
00:55:58,920 --> 00:56:02,120
Speaker 1: That's what I'm saying. That's so wild. That's like just

1103
00:56:02,160 --> 00:56:05,080
Speaker 1: the true example of someone being Yeah, of someone being

1104
00:56:05,160 --> 00:56:09,399
Speaker 1: so self absorbed that it is truly abusive to other

1105
00:56:09,440 --> 00:56:11,920
Speaker 1: people because they do not consider the other person's like

1106
00:56:12,040 --> 00:56:16,440
Speaker 1: feelings or their livelihood or anything. Yep. Cool, to be

1107
00:56:16,520 --> 00:56:21,279
Speaker 1: a billionaire makes you superhuman, it does very human case

1108
00:56:21,280 --> 00:56:25,719
Speaker 1: Alex Luthor more morals. Yeah, I mean, you know what,

1109
00:56:25,840 --> 00:56:29,200
Speaker 1: at least Lex Luthor has an understandable life goal. He

1110
00:56:29,280 --> 00:56:33,040
Speaker 1: wants to murder Superman, and don't we all, Yeah, you

1111
00:56:33,160 --> 00:56:35,480
Speaker 1: have a sex I mean, for me, Superman is the

1112
00:56:35,520 --> 00:56:38,000
Speaker 1: f d A. But I get it, like, yeah, well

1113
00:56:38,040 --> 00:56:41,600
Speaker 1: you'll have an emesis Robert mm hmm. It's the f

1114
00:56:41,719 --> 00:56:45,200
Speaker 1: d A for everyone now, uh yeah, sorry. What he

1115
00:56:45,239 --> 00:56:47,759
Speaker 1: did with Marybeth Brown follows a pattern for Elon Musk.

1116
00:56:47,880 --> 00:56:50,280
Speaker 1: He hates being told no, um, he's being told anything

1117
00:56:50,320 --> 00:56:52,319
Speaker 1: he doesn't want to hear. And every former employee you

1118
00:56:52,320 --> 00:56:54,520
Speaker 1: can find is very consistent about the fact that telling

1119
00:56:54,600 --> 00:56:56,480
Speaker 1: him you can't do something is the worst career if

1120
00:56:56,480 --> 00:56:59,120
Speaker 1: you can make. Musk is famous for reacting to this

1121
00:56:59,200 --> 00:57:01,520
Speaker 1: by telling people, Okay, then I'll do your job and

1122
00:57:01,560 --> 00:57:03,680
Speaker 1: I'll be the CEO of two companies, and then he

1123
00:57:03,719 --> 00:57:05,920
Speaker 1: fires them and does their job. And in the stories

1124
00:57:05,960 --> 00:57:07,719
Speaker 1: that get told, he always does the job well, and

1125
00:57:07,760 --> 00:57:09,959
Speaker 1: you know, the person goes away. And it is true

1126
00:57:09,960 --> 00:57:12,040
Speaker 1: that Musk is very smart. Uh he might even he

1127
00:57:12,120 --> 00:57:14,399
Speaker 1: might even say he's brilliant at some things. Uh. It's

1128
00:57:14,400 --> 00:57:16,640
Speaker 1: also true that he has contributed to both of his companies.

1129
00:57:16,760 --> 00:57:18,720
Speaker 1: He has had a particular impact on the development of

1130
00:57:18,760 --> 00:57:21,000
Speaker 1: Tesla's vehicles. From what I can tell, he seems to

1131
00:57:21,040 --> 00:57:23,400
Speaker 1: have the same kind of gift that Steve Jobs has

1132
00:57:23,520 --> 00:57:26,360
Speaker 1: or had. Uh. And the gift is like the thing

1133
00:57:26,360 --> 00:57:28,320
Speaker 1: that Jobs did that made him special and that made

1134
00:57:28,360 --> 00:57:30,320
Speaker 1: him actually kind of worth the money he got paid

1135
00:57:30,360 --> 00:57:33,120
Speaker 1: as a CEO or more of it than most CEOs are.

1136
00:57:33,640 --> 00:57:35,960
Speaker 1: Is that he he was really good at saying no

1137
00:57:36,160 --> 00:57:39,400
Speaker 1: to Like he knew to his employees when they would say, like,

1138
00:57:39,560 --> 00:57:41,760
Speaker 1: we think we've got this phone right, he knew, like

1139
00:57:42,000 --> 00:57:43,800
Speaker 1: he had kind of an instinctive knowledge of what people

1140
00:57:43,840 --> 00:57:46,200
Speaker 1: wanted to hold in their hands. And that's why the

1141
00:57:46,240 --> 00:57:49,320
Speaker 1: iPhone worked and other phones that were made around the

1142
00:57:49,320 --> 00:57:53,160
Speaker 1: same time smartphones early smartphones didn't work. His jobs understood.

1143
00:57:53,400 --> 00:57:55,720
Speaker 1: He like refused to let the product out until he

1144
00:57:55,760 --> 00:57:57,400
Speaker 1: knew that it was like going to feel good in

1145
00:57:57,440 --> 00:58:00,520
Speaker 1: people's hands and to light people. And Musk did kind

1146
00:58:00,520 --> 00:58:02,080
Speaker 1: of the same thing with the Tesla, which is why

1147
00:58:02,160 --> 00:58:04,520
Speaker 1: people fucking love their Tesla's because it is a well,

1148
00:58:04,880 --> 00:58:07,800
Speaker 1: it's a car designed to delight people in certain ways.

1149
00:58:07,800 --> 00:58:10,680
Speaker 1: Like one of Musk's big contributions was insisting that the

1150
00:58:10,720 --> 00:58:12,920
Speaker 1: door handles do that thing where they like pop out

1151
00:58:13,200 --> 00:58:16,440
Speaker 1: and like it's silly and unnecessary, but also having driven one,

1152
00:58:16,440 --> 00:58:18,800
Speaker 1: like it's fucking cool as hell, and it makes people

1153
00:58:18,880 --> 00:58:21,040
Speaker 1: happy and loyal to the product because it don't like

1154
00:58:22,040 --> 00:58:24,960
Speaker 1: has a Tesla and he fucking loves it. The amount

1155
00:58:25,000 --> 00:58:27,640
Speaker 1: of joy from driving it. I'm like, this is stupid,

1156
00:58:27,680 --> 00:58:31,600
Speaker 1: but it is cool. Yeah, it's cool. It's cool, and

1157
00:58:31,600 --> 00:58:33,520
Speaker 1: and must get some credit for a number of the

1158
00:58:33,560 --> 00:58:35,960
Speaker 1: really cool things about that car he has he does have.

1159
00:58:36,040 --> 00:58:37,920
Speaker 1: I think that the CEO to compare him most too

1160
00:58:38,000 --> 00:58:40,680
Speaker 1: is Steve Jobs, who was a monster UM but who

1161
00:58:40,760 --> 00:58:44,000
Speaker 1: was also UM had a skill, and Musk has that

1162
00:58:44,080 --> 00:58:47,120
Speaker 1: same skill. He's not a rocket engineer. He is someone though,

1163
00:58:47,120 --> 00:58:51,720
Speaker 1: who understands. He understood something important that people wanted and

1164
00:58:51,720 --> 00:58:54,280
Speaker 1: and he was the first person who understand that thing.

1165
00:58:54,680 --> 00:58:57,560
Speaker 1: And as a result, UM he put out a product

1166
00:58:57,600 --> 00:58:59,960
Speaker 1: that delights people. And that's that's a that's a town.

1167
00:59:00,240 --> 00:59:02,200
Speaker 1: You can say it's not worth nearly as much as

1168
00:59:02,200 --> 00:59:04,040
Speaker 1: he's been paid, and I would agree with that, but

1169
00:59:04,120 --> 00:59:07,960
Speaker 1: it is a talent UM. So at SpaceX, however, Musk's

1170
00:59:07,960 --> 00:59:10,320
Speaker 1: main achievement seems to be pushing a policy whereby the

1171
00:59:10,360 --> 00:59:13,520
Speaker 1: company makes the vast majority of their spacecraft components in house.

1172
00:59:13,960 --> 00:59:15,880
Speaker 1: This is a really weird thing to do that no

1173
00:59:15,880 --> 00:59:18,480
Speaker 1: one else in the rocket industry does UM, and it

1174
00:59:18,920 --> 00:59:21,000
Speaker 1: caused them to take years to get off the ground

1175
00:59:21,040 --> 00:59:23,400
Speaker 1: because they had to like invent everything from the ground up.

1176
00:59:23,720 --> 00:59:25,720
Speaker 1: But it also allowed them to bypass a lot of

1177
00:59:25,760 --> 00:59:29,520
Speaker 1: the bloat that the heavily regulated space industry has um

1178
00:59:29,560 --> 00:59:31,880
Speaker 1: and has allowed them to do stuff like the radios

1179
00:59:31,880 --> 00:59:34,600
Speaker 1: that SpaceX put in rockets cost a fraction of the

1180
00:59:34,680 --> 00:59:37,800
Speaker 1: radios that like we're put in rockets before because they

1181
00:59:37,880 --> 00:59:41,360
Speaker 1: didn't like get into this Lockheed Martin bullshit where everything's

1182
00:59:41,400 --> 00:59:44,160
Speaker 1: like stupidly overbuilt and expensive like, and that it was

1183
00:59:44,200 --> 00:59:46,720
Speaker 1: a good idea um to do it this way. It

1184
00:59:46,720 --> 00:59:49,520
Speaker 1: seems like a policy that was successful in reducing the

1185
00:59:49,560 --> 00:59:52,160
Speaker 1: cost of shooting ship into space. So whether or not

1186
00:59:52,200 --> 00:59:55,360
Speaker 1: you think that's good, it worked. My issue with Musk

1187
00:59:55,440 --> 00:59:57,880
Speaker 1: isn't that I think he's useless. It's that I think

1188
00:59:57,960 --> 01:00:00,480
Speaker 1: he gets way too much fucking credit, and that he

1189
01:00:00,600 --> 01:00:02,800
Speaker 1: uses the world saving goals of his company as an

1190
01:00:02,800 --> 01:00:06,240
Speaker 1: excuse to treat loyal and critical employees who do more

1191
01:00:06,280 --> 01:00:08,360
Speaker 1: of the work in a lot of cases than he does,

1192
01:00:08,680 --> 01:00:10,720
Speaker 1: like ship whenever he feels like they're getting in the

1193
01:00:10,760 --> 01:00:13,800
Speaker 1: way of what he wants to do at the moment um.

1194
01:00:13,840 --> 01:00:16,360
Speaker 1: And I'm gonna quote again from Ashley Vance's biography. This

1195
01:00:16,400 --> 01:00:19,160
Speaker 1: is near the end of the biography. The rank and

1196
01:00:19,200 --> 01:00:21,680
Speaker 1: file employees tend to describe Musk in more mixed ways.

1197
01:00:21,760 --> 01:00:24,360
Speaker 1: They revere his drive in respect how demanding he can be.

1198
01:00:24,440 --> 01:00:26,280
Speaker 1: They also think he can be hard to the point

1199
01:00:26,280 --> 01:00:29,200
Speaker 1: of mean and come off as capricious. The employees want

1200
01:00:29,200 --> 01:00:30,920
Speaker 1: to be close to Musk, but they also feared that

1201
01:00:30,960 --> 01:00:33,200
Speaker 1: he'll suddenly change his mind about something, and that every

1202
01:00:33,200 --> 01:00:36,320
Speaker 1: interaction with him is an opportunity to be fired. Elon's

1203
01:00:36,320 --> 01:00:38,400
Speaker 1: worst trait by far, in my opinion, is a complete

1204
01:00:38,480 --> 01:00:41,520
Speaker 1: lack of loyal to your human connection, said one former employee.

1205
01:00:41,560 --> 01:00:43,560
Speaker 1: Many of us worked tirelessly for him for years and

1206
01:00:43,600 --> 01:00:45,280
Speaker 1: were tossed to the curb like a piece of litter

1207
01:00:45,320 --> 01:00:47,880
Speaker 1: without a second thought. Maybe it was calculated to keep

1208
01:00:47,920 --> 01:00:49,760
Speaker 1: the rest of the workplace on their toes and scared.

1209
01:00:49,960 --> 01:00:52,120
Speaker 1: Maybe he was just able to detach from human connection

1210
01:00:52,120 --> 01:00:54,439
Speaker 1: to a remarkable degree. What was clear is that people

1211
01:00:54,440 --> 01:00:56,640
Speaker 1: who worked for him were like ammunition, used for a

1212
01:00:56,680 --> 01:01:03,600
Speaker 1: specific purpose until exhausted and discarded. What a ghoul. Wow, Yeah,

1213
01:01:03,840 --> 01:01:08,840
Speaker 1: that's some baltimort ship right, just fucking sucking the all

1214
01:01:08,880 --> 01:01:13,400
Speaker 1: the I don't know, Yeah, I would say it's a

1215
01:01:13,440 --> 01:01:16,640
Speaker 1: bad thing to do. Death theater. They'd like, suck out

1216
01:01:16,640 --> 01:01:19,440
Speaker 1: all your life force right out of your out of

1217
01:01:19,480 --> 01:01:21,320
Speaker 1: your body and then just leave you all your warm

1218
01:01:21,320 --> 01:01:23,720
Speaker 1: memories and you just sucking die. That's how I feel

1219
01:01:23,720 --> 01:01:28,000
Speaker 1: it is of your talent. Thank you the mentor I

1220
01:01:28,080 --> 01:01:31,800
Speaker 1: needed help. Thank you. Um You're the only person I

1221
01:01:31,800 --> 01:01:37,080
Speaker 1: would let make a Harry Potter comparison here. Thanks. I've

1222
01:01:37,120 --> 01:01:40,880
Speaker 1: earned it with my service, um, with my with my

1223
01:01:40,960 --> 01:01:46,080
Speaker 1: dead baby killer service. Um you have. I've graduated to

1224
01:01:46,240 --> 01:01:50,680
Speaker 1: not being on those episodes and I've never been less

1225
01:01:50,720 --> 01:01:57,400
Speaker 1: disturbed in my life. Speaking of babies alive babies, let's

1226
01:01:57,400 --> 01:02:02,320
Speaker 1: talk about thought And I was like, where, what how?

1227
01:02:03,880 --> 01:02:08,360
Speaker 1: But Sophie, you know who won't kill babies? Well, Raytheon

1228
01:02:08,480 --> 01:02:12,400
Speaker 1: kills a lot of babies. Here's the thing about Raytheon.

1229
01:02:12,840 --> 01:02:15,280
Speaker 1: What do we all hate weddings? Nobody likes having to

1230
01:02:15,280 --> 01:02:18,160
Speaker 1: go to a wedding, And the dream of Raytheon is

1231
01:02:18,200 --> 01:02:20,200
Speaker 1: to make weddings a thing of the past, not just

1232
01:02:20,280 --> 01:02:24,439
Speaker 1: for people in Afghanistan, but for everyone all over the world. Yes,

1233
01:02:24,640 --> 01:02:27,439
Speaker 1: with Raytheon, we can all live in a world where

1234
01:02:27,440 --> 01:02:29,800
Speaker 1: no wedding gets to happen without a drone strike. And

1235
01:02:29,840 --> 01:02:31,520
Speaker 1: isn't that the world we all want to live in? No?

1236
01:02:31,680 --> 01:02:34,000
Speaker 1: I like weddings. Weddings are dope. There's an open bar

1237
01:02:34,120 --> 01:02:37,040
Speaker 1: usually and I get free. What are you talking about, Robert,

1238
01:02:37,600 --> 01:02:39,840
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't want to be I don't want

1239
01:02:39,840 --> 01:02:41,360
Speaker 1: to be in a wedding. That's a lot of work.

1240
01:02:41,440 --> 01:02:47,080
Speaker 1: But like this makes no sense. Well it doesn't have

1241
01:02:47,120 --> 01:02:52,440
Speaker 1: to make sense because it's Raytheon, Raytheon wonderful. This is

1242
01:02:52,480 --> 01:03:01,000
Speaker 1: the ad break Yeah, adds, we're a and we're talking

1243
01:03:01,000 --> 01:03:05,400
Speaker 1: about Elon Musk's first wife, Justine. She famously wrote a

1244
01:03:05,480 --> 01:03:08,120
Speaker 1: viral article in two thousand ten after their divorce for

1245
01:03:08,200 --> 01:03:11,600
Speaker 1: Mary Claire. Its title is I was a starter wife.

1246
01:03:12,440 --> 01:03:14,520
Speaker 1: That is one of the biggest article. That is where

1247
01:03:14,520 --> 01:03:17,760
Speaker 1: a lot of my information comes from. It's pretty it's

1248
01:03:17,800 --> 01:03:22,680
Speaker 1: a pretty good breakup article information. Uh. It followed on

1249
01:03:22,720 --> 01:03:25,600
Speaker 1: the heels of Justine's blog, which she had kept for

1250
01:03:25,680 --> 01:03:27,880
Speaker 1: like the entirety of their marriage and had regularly like

1251
01:03:27,880 --> 01:03:30,400
Speaker 1: written some unflattering things about Elon about that like then

1252
01:03:30,480 --> 01:03:32,680
Speaker 1: made it out like all sorts of like gossip rags

1253
01:03:32,720 --> 01:03:35,320
Speaker 1: and stuff would talk about it. Um. He did not.

1254
01:03:35,400 --> 01:03:37,920
Speaker 1: He was not happy with that. Um. And also I

1255
01:03:37,960 --> 01:03:39,760
Speaker 1: kind of think it was her way of like striking

1256
01:03:39,800 --> 01:03:42,680
Speaker 1: back at him for like talking some ship about her

1257
01:03:42,680 --> 01:03:44,960
Speaker 1: career as a writer. Um, She's like Okay, then, well,

1258
01:03:44,960 --> 01:03:46,400
Speaker 1: I'm going to write about what a dick you are

1259
01:03:46,400 --> 01:03:50,760
Speaker 1: in my blog and then, oh, I bet you're gonna

1260
01:03:50,800 --> 01:03:53,040
Speaker 1: hate it a lot fucking more when it's about you.

1261
01:03:53,440 --> 01:03:58,880
Speaker 1: And what's very funny? It was very funny. Um, the

1262
01:03:59,000 --> 01:04:02,640
Speaker 1: article isn't funny, but that's funny. Uh So yeah, um,

1263
01:04:02,680 --> 01:04:04,720
Speaker 1: it's full of fun details and I'm gonna read one

1264
01:04:04,720 --> 01:04:06,960
Speaker 1: of them now. As we danced at our wedding. At reception,

1265
01:04:07,000 --> 01:04:09,640
Speaker 1: Ellen told me I am the alpha in this relationship.

1266
01:04:09,920 --> 01:04:12,040
Speaker 1: I shrugged it off. You shouldn't do that, just as

1267
01:04:12,080 --> 01:04:14,080
Speaker 1: I was as I would later shrug off signing the

1268
01:04:14,120 --> 01:04:16,680
Speaker 1: postnuptual agreement. But as time went on, I learned that

1269
01:04:16,720 --> 01:04:18,560
Speaker 1: he was serious. He had grown up in the male

1270
01:04:18,600 --> 01:04:20,880
Speaker 1: dominated culture of South Africa, and the will to compete

1271
01:04:20,880 --> 01:04:23,040
Speaker 1: and dominate that made him so successful in business did

1272
01:04:23,040 --> 01:04:25,520
Speaker 1: not magically shut off when he came home. This, in

1273
01:04:25,520 --> 01:04:27,680
Speaker 1: the vast economic and balance between us, meant that in

1274
01:04:27,720 --> 01:04:29,880
Speaker 1: the months following our wedding, a certain dynamic began to

1275
01:04:29,880 --> 01:04:33,120
Speaker 1: take hold. Ellen's judgment overruled mine, and he was constantly

1276
01:04:33,160 --> 01:04:35,560
Speaker 1: mark remarking on the ways he found me lacking. I

1277
01:04:35,560 --> 01:04:38,600
Speaker 1: am your wife, I told him, repeatedly not your employee.

1278
01:04:39,120 --> 01:04:42,160
Speaker 1: His response to that was, um that, Uh, if you

1279
01:04:42,200 --> 01:04:47,520
Speaker 1: were my employee, i'd fire you. Um, he absolutely would. Yeah, yeah,

1280
01:04:47,560 --> 01:04:50,360
Speaker 1: I'll fuck me. I'll fuck me so good, I'll fuck

1281
01:04:50,480 --> 01:04:53,640
Speaker 1: me off. Have my own babies al raised, that'll show

1282
01:04:53,680 --> 01:05:00,920
Speaker 1: you nothing. Yeah, it's amazing. So yeah, that's great. Justine

1283
01:05:00,920 --> 01:05:02,920
Speaker 1: notes that after the first time she flew to Silicon

1284
01:05:03,000 --> 01:05:05,000
Speaker 1: Valley to meet Musk while he was building zip Too,

1285
01:05:05,360 --> 01:05:07,640
Speaker 1: he asked her how many kids she wanted. She said,

1286
01:05:07,640 --> 01:05:09,840
Speaker 1: one or two unless she could afford nanny's than she

1287
01:05:09,880 --> 01:05:12,600
Speaker 1: wanted for. He responded with a laugh and the reply,

1288
01:05:13,080 --> 01:05:15,640
Speaker 1: that's the difference between you and me. I just assumed

1289
01:05:15,680 --> 01:05:18,240
Speaker 1: that there will be nanny's. A good person says that

1290
01:05:18,240 --> 01:05:21,480
Speaker 1: that's the thing about me and you. I I expect servants.

1291
01:05:21,520 --> 01:05:25,320
Speaker 1: That's the difference. I know. I'll have servants, slave servants,

1292
01:05:25,560 --> 01:05:32,040
Speaker 1: slave servants, servants, definitely servants my dad has. Which was

1293
01:05:32,080 --> 01:05:35,360
Speaker 1: it that my dad has? Yeah, not that, yeah, but

1294
01:05:35,560 --> 01:05:39,640
Speaker 1: essentially that yes. Justine also claims that Musk had her

1295
01:05:39,680 --> 01:05:41,600
Speaker 1: meet with his lawyer two months before the wedding to

1296
01:05:41,640 --> 01:05:43,600
Speaker 1: sign a financial agreement that he assured her was not

1297
01:05:43,680 --> 01:05:45,880
Speaker 1: a prenup, but essentially was, and it had her sign

1298
01:05:45,920 --> 01:05:47,880
Speaker 1: away most of her rights, which does kind of suggest

1299
01:05:47,880 --> 01:05:49,960
Speaker 1: that Musk was planning on the marriage not lasting, which

1300
01:05:49,960 --> 01:05:51,720
Speaker 1: is kind of the point of the title of her article.

1301
01:05:52,120 --> 01:05:54,960
Speaker 1: She also notes that during the marriage quote, no matter

1302
01:05:55,040 --> 01:05:57,800
Speaker 1: how many highlights I got, Ellen pushed me to be blonder,

1303
01:05:57,880 --> 01:06:00,400
Speaker 1: go platinum, he kept saying, and I kept her using,

1304
01:06:00,840 --> 01:06:05,640
Speaker 1: that's cool, but whatever. Yeah, it's hot when someone you

1305
01:06:05,680 --> 01:06:08,480
Speaker 1: love just tries to change you all the time. I

1306
01:06:08,520 --> 01:06:12,800
Speaker 1: love it. I That's what I've been told. That all

1307
01:06:12,840 --> 01:06:16,400
Speaker 1: women love to be changed by men, and just like

1308
01:06:16,440 --> 01:06:19,120
Speaker 1: all men like to be improved by women. People that

1309
01:06:19,280 --> 01:06:23,240
Speaker 1: want to not be loved for being themselves, yeah, everybody does. Yeah.

1310
01:06:23,640 --> 01:06:26,280
Speaker 1: People just want to be told that their garbage and

1311
01:06:26,320 --> 01:06:29,840
Speaker 1: that they need to change. That's what people want to

1312
01:06:29,960 --> 01:06:32,320
Speaker 1: need is to be told their garbage, which is why

1313
01:06:32,360 --> 01:06:34,600
Speaker 1: I tell my audience that their garbage, so that they'll

1314
01:06:34,600 --> 01:06:37,919
Speaker 1: be better to try and impress me. Send you a knife,

1315
01:06:37,960 --> 01:06:41,720
Speaker 1: because they were like that felt good. Hurt me again, daddy, Yeah, yeah,

1316
01:06:41,840 --> 01:06:46,320
Speaker 1: hurt hurt me again, daddy podcast Daddy. That's exactly what

1317
01:06:46,400 --> 01:06:50,200
Speaker 1: it is. That's the slogan of behind the bastards. Hurt

1318
01:06:50,240 --> 01:07:02,880
Speaker 1: me again hurt podcast daddy, So yuh. It is worth

1319
01:07:02,960 --> 01:07:05,800
Speaker 1: noting that this this postnup didn't really seem to matter.

1320
01:07:05,880 --> 01:07:08,240
Speaker 1: Justine what got what seems like a pretty fair settlement

1321
01:07:08,280 --> 01:07:10,080
Speaker 1: to me. She's rich as ship. She gets like eighty

1322
01:07:10,200 --> 01:07:12,200
Speaker 1: something thousand dollars a month in addition to getting like

1323
01:07:12,240 --> 01:07:14,520
Speaker 1: a couple million up front, and how like she's doing

1324
01:07:14,560 --> 01:07:17,760
Speaker 1: fine now it's it's it's she. She seems to be okay,

1325
01:07:18,400 --> 01:07:20,720
Speaker 1: but must did not treat her well um and was

1326
01:07:20,760 --> 01:07:23,000
Speaker 1: a giant dick. And almost as soon as they broke

1327
01:07:23,040 --> 01:07:25,480
Speaker 1: things off, he flew to England and met to Lula Rightly,

1328
01:07:25,560 --> 01:07:28,520
Speaker 1: an actress who happened to be fourteen years younger than him.

1329
01:07:28,560 --> 01:07:30,800
Speaker 1: He hit on her by showing pictures of his rockets,

1330
01:07:30,840 --> 01:07:32,800
Speaker 1: and that seems to have worked. The two hung out

1331
01:07:32,800 --> 01:07:34,120
Speaker 1: for a night or two in England, and then she

1332
01:07:34,160 --> 01:07:36,120
Speaker 1: flew out to visit him. A few weeks later, when

1333
01:07:36,160 --> 01:07:38,400
Speaker 1: she'd been out in California for five days, he asked

1334
01:07:38,400 --> 01:07:43,960
Speaker 1: her to marry him. She was twenty two, so gross

1335
01:07:44,040 --> 01:07:48,480
Speaker 1: and just like cliche. I'm like, dude, come on, come on, dude,

1336
01:07:48,800 --> 01:07:50,640
Speaker 1: like five days or I mean it was a little

1337
01:07:50,680 --> 01:07:54,040
Speaker 1: more than that, but not much, but you pathetic dude,

1338
01:07:54,360 --> 01:07:56,800
Speaker 1: so she said, yes, they got married. They got divorced

1339
01:07:56,800 --> 01:07:58,840
Speaker 1: soon after that, and Must tried to be on his

1340
01:07:58,880 --> 01:08:01,240
Speaker 1: own for like ten months, and then he got remarried

1341
01:08:01,280 --> 01:08:03,760
Speaker 1: to too Lula uh, and then they got divorced again.

1342
01:08:04,000 --> 01:08:06,360
Speaker 1: When Ashley Vance published her book in two thousand fifteen,

1343
01:08:06,440 --> 01:08:08,840
Speaker 1: Musk was in the process of fixing things before fucking

1344
01:08:08,840 --> 01:08:11,680
Speaker 1: them up again with Riley, So her book doesn't really

1345
01:08:11,680 --> 01:08:13,959
Speaker 1: get into detail about what happened later. But that two

1346
01:08:14,200 --> 01:08:16,920
Speaker 1: seventeen Rolling Stone article certainly does. And it is a

1347
01:08:16,960 --> 01:08:21,400
Speaker 1: fucking doozy. I love that article also. Yeah, it opens

1348
01:08:21,479 --> 01:08:23,920
Speaker 1: right after he broke up with I wrote some famous lady,

1349
01:08:23,920 --> 01:08:27,280
Speaker 1: but it's Amber heard. Um, it's okay to call her

1350
01:08:27,360 --> 01:08:29,360
Speaker 1: some famous lady, right What does she do? What's her thing?

1351
01:08:29,560 --> 01:08:32,880
Speaker 1: She's an actress and stuff. Yeah, and I'm gonna quote

1352
01:08:32,880 --> 01:08:35,680
Speaker 1: from that Rolling Stones article right now. He heaves a

1353
01:08:35,760 --> 01:08:38,080
Speaker 1: sigh and ends his effort at composure. I just broke

1354
01:08:38,160 --> 01:08:40,559
Speaker 1: up with my girlfriend, he says, hesitantly. I was really

1355
01:08:40,560 --> 01:08:43,559
Speaker 1: in love and it hurt bad. He pauses and corrects himself. Well,

1356
01:08:43,640 --> 01:08:45,240
Speaker 1: she broke up with me more than I broke up

1357
01:08:45,280 --> 01:08:47,720
Speaker 1: with her. I think This happened right before Musk had

1358
01:08:47,760 --> 01:08:49,599
Speaker 1: to launch the Model three, and he claims it made

1359
01:08:49,600 --> 01:08:52,040
Speaker 1: his job Must harder, much harder. I've been in severe

1360
01:08:52,080 --> 01:08:55,080
Speaker 1: emotional pain for the last few weeks. Must collaborates severe.

1361
01:08:55,160 --> 01:08:57,040
Speaker 1: It took every ounce of will to be able to

1362
01:08:57,080 --> 01:08:58,920
Speaker 1: do the Model three event and not look like the

1363
01:08:58,960 --> 01:09:01,320
Speaker 1: most depressed guy around. For most of that day, I

1364
01:09:01,360 --> 01:09:03,160
Speaker 1: was morbid, and then I had to psych myself up,

1365
01:09:03,280 --> 01:09:05,840
Speaker 1: drink a couple of red bulls, hang out with positive people,

1366
01:09:05,880 --> 01:09:08,519
Speaker 1: and then like, tell myself, I have all these people

1367
01:09:08,520 --> 01:09:11,120
Speaker 1: depending on me, all right, do it? So he talks

1368
01:09:11,120 --> 01:09:12,479
Speaker 1: about how he did it, and then he gets back

1369
01:09:12,520 --> 01:09:14,680
Speaker 1: onto the subject of his breakup. In the middle of this,

1370
01:09:14,720 --> 01:09:17,800
Speaker 1: he straight up asks Neil Strauss, is there anybody you

1371
01:09:17,880 --> 01:09:19,920
Speaker 1: think I should date? It's so hard for me to

1372
01:09:20,000 --> 01:09:25,920
Speaker 1: even meet people, which, uh, it's both so entitled and

1373
01:09:26,120 --> 01:09:28,840
Speaker 1: so pathetic at the same time. It's just like quite

1374
01:09:28,840 --> 01:09:32,200
Speaker 1: a mixture. Yeah, I don't know how to I don't

1375
01:09:32,200 --> 01:09:34,240
Speaker 1: know how he would handle that as an interviewer. It's

1376
01:09:34,280 --> 01:09:37,000
Speaker 1: actually to Neil Strauss's credit that he managed to like

1377
01:09:37,120 --> 01:09:41,639
Speaker 1: not explode in awkwardness at this moment. That's like a nightmare.

1378
01:09:41,680 --> 01:09:43,640
Speaker 1: I would think of someone I hate, and then I

1379
01:09:43,680 --> 01:09:47,280
Speaker 1: would hook hook them up. Yeah, yeah, I would. I

1380
01:09:47,320 --> 01:09:51,200
Speaker 1: would get him to date. I don't know Ivanka Trunk honestly. Um,

1381
01:09:51,280 --> 01:09:53,840
Speaker 1: so yeah, it seems like that actually might happen. Okay,

1382
01:09:53,840 --> 01:09:56,360
Speaker 1: I'm gonna continue reading from the Rolling Stone article. He

1383
01:09:56,400 --> 01:09:59,439
Speaker 1: swallows and clarifies, stammering softly. I'm looking for a long

1384
01:09:59,560 --> 01:10:01,960
Speaker 1: term relay hip. I'm not looking for a one night stand.

1385
01:10:01,960 --> 01:10:04,240
Speaker 1: I'm looking for a serious companion or soul mate, that

1386
01:10:04,360 --> 01:10:07,679
Speaker 1: kind of thing. And yeah, it's just like it's so bad.

1387
01:10:07,800 --> 01:10:10,559
Speaker 1: This is like the worst thing I can imagine happening

1388
01:10:10,560 --> 01:10:15,680
Speaker 1: as an interviewer. Um, it's just unbelievably awkward. Uh. I'm

1389
01:10:15,720 --> 01:10:18,519
Speaker 1: gonna quote from Strauss again. I did eventually tell him.

1390
01:10:18,520 --> 01:10:19,880
Speaker 1: I eventually tell him that it may not be a

1391
01:10:19,880 --> 01:10:22,240
Speaker 1: good idea to jump right into another relationship. He may

1392
01:10:22,280 --> 01:10:24,280
Speaker 1: want to take some time to himself and figure out

1393
01:10:24,280 --> 01:10:27,040
Speaker 1: why is previous relationships haven't worked in the long run,

1394
01:10:27,400 --> 01:10:33,280
Speaker 1: which is like voice of reason here, that's amazing. Neil

1395
01:10:33,360 --> 01:10:36,280
Speaker 1: Strauss is the guy giving him legitimately good advice. Was like,

1396
01:10:36,320 --> 01:10:39,599
Speaker 1: maybe figure out what about yourself makes you incapable of

1397
01:10:39,640 --> 01:10:44,960
Speaker 1: staying in relationships. He needed Rolling Stone to tell him

1398
01:10:45,000 --> 01:10:51,240
Speaker 1: to take it easier and figure out who he is. Yeah, yeah,

1399
01:10:51,240 --> 01:10:53,080
Speaker 1: it's weird that rolling Stone would tell him to take

1400
01:10:53,120 --> 01:10:59,640
Speaker 1: it easy. Normally that's the Eagles. Oh god, Wow, you

1401
01:10:59,760 --> 01:11:02,880
Speaker 1: are more of a dad than you've ever been. I know.

1402
01:11:03,040 --> 01:11:06,160
Speaker 1: That's the dada ist fucking joke I've ever made. You know,

1403
01:11:06,240 --> 01:11:14,839
Speaker 1: who's barely a dad? Elon get Yes, he's a terrible

1404
01:11:15,680 --> 01:11:18,559
Speaker 1: I feel like Jack O'Brien just took over your body.

1405
01:11:18,880 --> 01:11:22,680
Speaker 1: Thank you? Uh so? Yeah, Musk shakes his head and grimaces.

1406
01:11:22,680 --> 01:11:24,400
Speaker 1: If I'm not in love, if I'm not with a

1407
01:11:24,439 --> 01:11:27,559
Speaker 1: long term companion, I cannot be happy. And this is

1408
01:11:27,560 --> 01:11:30,360
Speaker 1: Strauss again. I explained that needing someone so badly that

1409
01:11:30,439 --> 01:11:33,200
Speaker 1: you feel like nothing without them, nothing without them is

1410
01:11:33,240 --> 01:11:39,280
Speaker 1: textbook codependence, which, again Neo Strauss, author of the game,

1411
01:11:39,720 --> 01:11:50,439
Speaker 1: is the guy explaining very reasonably. Yeah, it's incredible. Have

1412
01:11:50,520 --> 01:11:54,480
Speaker 1: you looked inside yourself and realized you have a problem

1413
01:11:54,560 --> 01:11:58,120
Speaker 1: and maybe that needing people for the way that you

1414
01:11:58,240 --> 01:12:04,280
Speaker 1: do isn't psychologically sound? Neil Strauss. Yeah, I wrote the

1415
01:12:04,320 --> 01:12:06,960
Speaker 1: book that made negging into a household term. And I

1416
01:12:07,000 --> 01:12:08,840
Speaker 1: want to tell you I think you might not be

1417
01:12:09,040 --> 01:12:17,000
Speaker 1: healthily approaching your relationships. Dude. That's like Michael Jordan being like,

1418
01:12:17,280 --> 01:12:19,960
Speaker 1: you have a problem with gambling. I'm gonna need to

1419
01:12:20,000 --> 01:12:25,800
Speaker 1: talk to you about that. You gambled too much. Yeah,

1420
01:12:26,080 --> 01:12:28,759
Speaker 1: it's like O. J. Simpson telling you you have problems

1421
01:12:28,800 --> 01:12:32,880
Speaker 1: with not murdering people. I don't know, probably shouldn't go

1422
01:12:32,920 --> 01:12:35,360
Speaker 1: into that. It's like the A. T. F telling you

1423
01:12:35,360 --> 01:12:38,879
Speaker 1: you're not treating compounds with seventy some odd children in them,

1424
01:12:39,000 --> 01:12:42,960
Speaker 1: well with your tear gas that you think wacing a

1425
01:12:43,040 --> 01:12:45,280
Speaker 1: third time is going to be the thing that got

1426
01:12:45,280 --> 01:12:49,000
Speaker 1: you out of this. If I have a motto, Sophia,

1427
01:12:49,120 --> 01:12:52,760
Speaker 1: it's a b W always be wacoing. That's the That's

1428
01:12:52,760 --> 01:12:58,280
Speaker 1: the fucking way I run. It wasn't hot, Robert. You're

1429
01:12:58,280 --> 01:13:00,559
Speaker 1: going to have to get over it. I know, I

1430
01:13:00,640 --> 01:13:05,920
Speaker 1: know I will. Uh so. Yeah. So Neil Strauss very

1431
01:13:06,040 --> 01:13:09,559
Speaker 1: reasonably tells Elon Musk that he's codependent to ship, and

1432
01:13:09,640 --> 01:13:13,679
Speaker 1: here's what comes next. Musk disagrees strongly. It's not true,

1433
01:13:13,720 --> 01:13:17,000
Speaker 1: he replies petulantly, I will never be happy without having someone.

1434
01:13:17,200 --> 01:13:20,400
Speaker 1: Going to sleep alone kills me. He hesitates, shakes his head.

1435
01:13:20,479 --> 01:13:22,760
Speaker 1: Falters continues, it's not like I don't know what that

1436
01:13:22,800 --> 01:13:24,640
Speaker 1: feels like, being in a big empty house and the

1437
01:13:24,640 --> 01:13:26,880
Speaker 1: footsteps echoing through the hallway, no one there and no

1438
01:13:26,920 --> 01:13:28,880
Speaker 1: one on the pillow next to you. Fuck. How do

1439
01:13:28,920 --> 01:13:31,920
Speaker 1: you make yourself happy in a situation like that? Um?

1440
01:13:31,960 --> 01:13:34,479
Speaker 1: You spread the funk out on the bed and you

1441
01:13:34,560 --> 01:13:37,519
Speaker 1: sleep eagles style. That's what I do. What the funk

1442
01:13:37,560 --> 01:13:40,040
Speaker 1: are you talking about? You enjoy the ship out of

1443
01:13:40,080 --> 01:13:45,120
Speaker 1: your fucking single ass self. There you find a sex worker,

1444
01:13:45,280 --> 01:13:48,000
Speaker 1: group of sex workers whose personalities you enjoy, and you

1445
01:13:48,040 --> 01:13:50,800
Speaker 1: pay them very well because money means nothing to you,

1446
01:13:50,920 --> 01:13:54,280
Speaker 1: and this way you're not emotionally damaging somebody. You can

1447
01:13:54,320 --> 01:13:56,840
Speaker 1: just pay someone to cuddle with you at night because

1448
01:13:56,840 --> 01:13:59,800
Speaker 1: you're a billionaire and you don't have to consistently be

1449
01:14:00,840 --> 01:14:04,440
Speaker 1: marrying these people and leading them in these very stressful relationships.

1450
01:14:04,560 --> 01:14:06,800
Speaker 1: That's an option for you, Ellen, It would be fine.

1451
01:14:07,120 --> 01:14:11,479
Speaker 1: Wait what question? What year was this? Though? Robert? This

1452
01:14:11,520 --> 01:14:16,599
Speaker 1: is think about how much needs to be solved in you,

1453
01:14:16,840 --> 01:14:19,640
Speaker 1: and like how unhappy you are with yourself that you

1454
01:14:19,720 --> 01:14:25,400
Speaker 1: cannot stand to be alone. Do we think theory that

1455
01:14:25,479 --> 01:14:28,240
Speaker 1: he just heard the song hate Sleeping Alone by Drake

1456
01:14:28,320 --> 01:14:30,200
Speaker 1: one too many times and got it stuck in his

1457
01:14:30,240 --> 01:14:31,960
Speaker 1: head and decided that's how you're just going to live

1458
01:14:31,960 --> 01:14:33,920
Speaker 1: his life. No, but that's why I was at that.

1459
01:14:34,479 --> 01:14:37,240
Speaker 1: His emotions, the most he's probably ever identified with anyone,

1460
01:14:37,280 --> 01:14:39,679
Speaker 1: has been like when he just listens to Drake, he's like, ah,

1461
01:14:39,720 --> 01:14:43,400
Speaker 1: that's what emotions are like. He's like, hate, sleeping alone,

1462
01:14:43,439 --> 01:14:45,920
Speaker 1: got it, got it? Got it? I hate that. That's me,

1463
01:14:47,479 --> 01:14:50,040
Speaker 1: Drake says it. So I believe it. So this interview

1464
01:14:50,160 --> 01:14:53,960
Speaker 1: keeps going on. Quote when I was a child, there's

1465
01:14:54,000 --> 01:14:56,760
Speaker 1: one thing I said, must continues. His demeanor is stiff,

1466
01:14:56,840 --> 01:14:58,439
Speaker 1: yet in the sheen of his eyes and the trembling

1467
01:14:58,439 --> 01:15:00,360
Speaker 1: of his lips, a high tide of emotion is visible,

1468
01:15:00,360 --> 01:15:03,320
Speaker 1: pushing against the retaining walls. I never want to be alone,

1469
01:15:03,520 --> 01:15:05,799
Speaker 1: That's what I would say. His voice drops to a whisper.

1470
01:15:05,880 --> 01:15:08,840
Speaker 1: I don't want to be alone. So yeah, that says

1471
01:15:08,880 --> 01:15:16,360
Speaker 1: a lot. Uh. But you know what says even more, Sophia,

1472
01:15:17,520 --> 01:15:21,600
Speaker 1: Is it goods and services? No, it's a line in

1473
01:15:21,640 --> 01:15:24,120
Speaker 1: the article where Elon Musk kind of let slip that

1474
01:15:24,160 --> 01:15:30,920
Speaker 1: he might believe in race science. Oh I forgot about that.

1475
01:15:30,960 --> 01:15:33,639
Speaker 1: How could I have forgotten? Oh? My god? Of course,

1476
01:15:33,680 --> 01:15:37,240
Speaker 1: according to Musk's best guess, our personalities might be eight

1477
01:15:37,360 --> 01:15:40,040
Speaker 1: percent in nature and nurture. And by the way, there's

1478
01:15:40,040 --> 01:15:42,240
Speaker 1: a number of lines where he makes similar kind of

1479
01:15:42,280 --> 01:15:45,360
Speaker 1: points in the biography that, like, on their own you

1480
01:15:45,439 --> 01:15:47,080
Speaker 1: might not notice, but when you put him together, it's like,

1481
01:15:47,120 --> 01:15:49,280
Speaker 1: I think some of that a lot of that apartheid

1482
01:15:49,320 --> 01:15:54,559
Speaker 1: ship rubbed off on Elon. Yeah, And again I want

1483
01:15:54,600 --> 01:15:55,960
Speaker 1: to be fair in pointing out like he tried to

1484
01:15:55,960 --> 01:15:57,759
Speaker 1: get away from it, but like some of that ship

1485
01:15:57,840 --> 01:16:00,240
Speaker 1: is plugged deep into his head. And this is part

1486
01:16:00,240 --> 01:16:02,040
Speaker 1: of the problem with being a kind of person who

1487
01:16:02,040 --> 01:16:04,479
Speaker 1: can't take any criticism, is that you both wind up

1488
01:16:04,479 --> 01:16:07,599
Speaker 1: codependent and wind up pushing some weird race science ship

1489
01:16:07,600 --> 01:16:11,720
Speaker 1: because you're not able to take criticism about yourself. Anyway,

1490
01:16:12,040 --> 01:16:18,719
Speaker 1: that's good that he's nice to his servants, So yeah,

1491
01:16:18,760 --> 01:16:22,479
Speaker 1: that's great. That's good stuff. Uh yeah, Now, so much

1492
01:16:22,479 --> 01:16:24,240
Speaker 1: has been written about Musk that it's very hard for

1493
01:16:24,240 --> 01:16:25,880
Speaker 1: me to draw a line on how much to include,

1494
01:16:25,960 --> 01:16:27,640
Speaker 1: or what is reasonable to critique him on, or what

1495
01:16:27,720 --> 01:16:29,280
Speaker 1: is even true about the guy, because there's a lot

1496
01:16:29,280 --> 01:16:31,600
Speaker 1: of disagreements and stuff. I included some statements by his

1497
01:16:31,680 --> 01:16:34,240
Speaker 1: dad and Elon claims his Dad as a liar and untrustworthy,

1498
01:16:34,280 --> 01:16:37,559
Speaker 1: and that's definitely true. One thing I'm sure that longtime

1499
01:16:37,640 --> 01:16:40,080
Speaker 1: Musk fans will ding me On is not touching enough

1500
01:16:40,120 --> 01:16:42,759
Speaker 1: on the subject on the period when Musk nearly lost

1501
01:16:42,840 --> 01:16:46,400
Speaker 1: everything betting on Tesla and SpaceX. This is the most

1502
01:16:46,479 --> 01:16:49,160
Speaker 1: mythically significant part of Elon's career, and the basic story

1503
01:16:49,240 --> 01:16:51,240
Speaker 1: is that at one point, both Tesla and SpaceX had

1504
01:16:51,320 --> 01:16:54,280
Speaker 1: yet to prove themselves with their key products. Both companies

1505
01:16:54,320 --> 01:16:57,320
Speaker 1: hemorrhaged money. Must had to throw in almost every dollar

1506
01:16:57,360 --> 01:16:59,360
Speaker 1: he was worth to keep them afloat, and he executed

1507
01:16:59,360 --> 01:17:01,840
Speaker 1: an intricate series of moods that just barely managed to

1508
01:17:01,880 --> 01:17:04,439
Speaker 1: bring in enough VC dollars to keep both companies solvent

1509
01:17:04,640 --> 01:17:07,800
Speaker 1: until their products proved themselves. It is true that Must

1510
01:17:07,880 --> 01:17:10,559
Speaker 1: risk much more of his personal wealth than most tech

1511
01:17:10,720 --> 01:17:13,400
Speaker 1: entrepreneurs do. It's also true that he was never in

1512
01:17:13,479 --> 01:17:15,200
Speaker 1: danger of being poor, and he always had a few

1513
01:17:15,200 --> 01:17:17,280
Speaker 1: million dollars in reserves. And it seems to me that

1514
01:17:17,320 --> 01:17:19,040
Speaker 1: most people who write about el Un focused on the

1515
01:17:19,120 --> 01:17:21,840
Speaker 1: fact that he gambled of his wealth and ignored the

1516
01:17:21,880 --> 01:17:23,880
Speaker 1: fact that the remaining five percent was still enough money

1517
01:17:23,880 --> 01:17:25,479
Speaker 1: for him to live uncomfortably for the rest of his

1518
01:17:25,520 --> 01:17:28,439
Speaker 1: life without working another day, or as other people who

1519
01:17:28,479 --> 01:17:33,120
Speaker 1: are poor call it, not gambling, not really gain. You

1520
01:17:33,200 --> 01:17:35,920
Speaker 1: still have enough money for the rest of your life.

1521
01:17:36,160 --> 01:17:41,400
Speaker 1: That's not gambling. Yeah. Yeah. I would prefer instead to

1522
01:17:41,439 --> 01:17:44,920
Speaker 1: report on the elements of Musk Musk's success that don't

1523
01:17:44,960 --> 01:17:47,960
Speaker 1: get covered often. For one example, reporting in two thousand

1524
01:17:48,000 --> 01:17:50,120
Speaker 1: fifteen by The l A Times revealed that Musk's three

1525
01:17:50,120 --> 01:17:53,400
Speaker 1: big companies had benefited from an estimated four point nine

1526
01:17:53,720 --> 01:17:57,400
Speaker 1: billion dollars in government support. This money came in a

1527
01:17:57,479 --> 01:17:59,840
Speaker 1: variety of forms, including tax credits and rebates for the

1528
01:18:00,040 --> 01:18:02,839
Speaker 1: years of solar panels and electric cars. It is interesting

1529
01:18:02,880 --> 01:18:05,880
Speaker 1: to me that Musk's bravery and investing so much of

1530
01:18:05,880 --> 01:18:08,320
Speaker 1: his own money is always mentioned in stories about his success,

1531
01:18:08,439 --> 01:18:11,400
Speaker 1: but the fortunes and government money that made it possible

1532
01:18:11,520 --> 01:18:14,559
Speaker 1: almost never are. A lot of this money came in

1533
01:18:15,080 --> 01:18:17,040
Speaker 1: the form of money from states who desperately tried to

1534
01:18:17,040 --> 01:18:20,080
Speaker 1: convince Tesla or SpaceX to set up facilities in their backyard.

1535
01:18:20,439 --> 01:18:23,000
Speaker 1: Nevada gave Tesla one point three billion dollars in incentives

1536
01:18:23,040 --> 01:18:26,280
Speaker 1: to build a battery factory near Reno. SpaceX also got

1537
01:18:26,280 --> 01:18:29,240
Speaker 1: twenty million dollars in development subsidies to build a launch

1538
01:18:29,320 --> 01:18:33,960
Speaker 1: facility in Texas. And that, Sophia and my dear friends

1539
01:18:34,000 --> 01:18:36,080
Speaker 1: on the Internet, brings us to what will be the

1540
01:18:36,160 --> 01:18:40,120
Speaker 1: closing anecdote of this episode, how Elon musk destroyed the

1541
01:18:40,160 --> 01:18:43,719
Speaker 1: small town of Boca Chica. You heard this story, Sophia.

1542
01:18:45,120 --> 01:18:46,920
Speaker 1: I think I was reading a whole threat about it

1543
01:18:46,960 --> 01:18:52,519
Speaker 1: actually yesterday for the first time. Yeah, it fucking rules. Um,

1544
01:18:52,600 --> 01:18:55,240
Speaker 1: Boca Chica does not matter in the big picture sense

1545
01:18:55,280 --> 01:18:58,479
Speaker 1: of the world. It's a tiny, tiny, tiny retirement community

1546
01:18:58,479 --> 01:19:01,640
Speaker 1: in the village on the Texas post um and it

1547
01:19:01,960 --> 01:19:03,880
Speaker 1: has almost no I think it only had like two

1548
01:19:03,920 --> 01:19:07,400
Speaker 1: permanent residents. Like it's what you'd call a snowbird community

1549
01:19:07,400 --> 01:19:10,120
Speaker 1: where old people have their retirement homes and come to

1550
01:19:10,200 --> 01:19:12,760
Speaker 1: at the end of like during the winter, basically because

1551
01:19:12,760 --> 01:19:15,920
Speaker 1: it's it's got a nice beach. Uh. And I read

1552
01:19:16,000 --> 01:19:18,760
Speaker 1: a really good Esquire article about the destruction of this

1553
01:19:18,800 --> 01:19:21,519
Speaker 1: small town by Elon Musk uh And it opens with

1554
01:19:21,600 --> 01:19:25,880
Speaker 1: a Texas Parks and Wildlife magazine quote from nineteen two quote.

1555
01:19:25,880 --> 01:19:28,040
Speaker 1: The schemes and dreams of developers to build on this

1556
01:19:28,080 --> 01:19:31,280
Speaker 1: beautiful and desolate area die hard, but diet they always have.

1557
01:19:32,120 --> 01:19:33,760
Speaker 1: And this is more or less sums up why the

1558
01:19:33,760 --> 01:19:36,639
Speaker 1: property values here have stayed low and why old people

1559
01:19:36,640 --> 01:19:38,519
Speaker 1: who aren't rich have been able to afford to have

1560
01:19:38,600 --> 01:19:41,240
Speaker 1: homes here. Um. It's never been taken over by hipsters

1561
01:19:41,280 --> 01:19:43,960
Speaker 1: or developers due to its isolation and its proximity to

1562
01:19:44,040 --> 01:19:48,080
Speaker 1: Texas poorest city, uh and difficult geography. Booka Chica is

1563
01:19:48,120 --> 01:19:50,839
Speaker 1: a perfect place for old people to spend their golden

1564
01:19:50,960 --> 01:19:54,840
Speaker 1: years without having millions of dollars. Um. It's no wonder

1565
01:19:54,880 --> 01:19:57,679
Speaker 1: that Elon Musk picked the area for his rocket test range,

1566
01:19:57,840 --> 01:20:00,320
Speaker 1: stating in two thousand and eighteen, we've a lot of

1567
01:20:00,439 --> 01:20:02,800
Speaker 1: land and nobody around, so if it blows up, it's cool,

1568
01:20:04,640 --> 01:20:12,080
Speaker 1: which because the Columbus was like, well, there's no one

1569
01:20:12,439 --> 01:20:17,000
Speaker 1: here in America, so we're gonna just take it. When

1570
01:20:17,000 --> 01:20:22,479
Speaker 1: they were definitely people here. Musk started working to get

1571
01:20:22,479 --> 01:20:24,200
Speaker 1: the land at two that's in thirteen, claiming he was

1572
01:20:24,240 --> 01:20:26,600
Speaker 1: going to make the commercial version of Cape Canaveral. He

1573
01:20:26,640 --> 01:20:28,800
Speaker 1: pushed for two bills in the Texas State House, one

1574
01:20:28,880 --> 01:20:32,600
Speaker 1: to reduce a private company's liability over nuisance complaints and

1575
01:20:32,680 --> 01:20:34,840
Speaker 1: run from the city of Brownsville, which is the city

1576
01:20:34,880 --> 01:20:37,839
Speaker 1: nearby that would allow city officials to deny public access

1577
01:20:37,920 --> 01:20:42,719
Speaker 1: to beaches when space flight activities were on the calendar. Incidentally, Sophia,

1578
01:20:43,080 --> 01:20:46,000
Speaker 1: the beach around Boca Chico was known as the poor

1579
01:20:46,080 --> 01:20:48,800
Speaker 1: People's Beach for being one of the only chunks of

1580
01:20:48,880 --> 01:20:51,240
Speaker 1: nice coastline in Texas that was free to use for

1581
01:20:51,280 --> 01:20:55,439
Speaker 1: poor people. I read about that, and also from what

1582
01:20:55,479 --> 01:21:00,240
Speaker 1: I understand, it was a key wildlife corridors. It is

1583
01:21:00,320 --> 01:21:05,120
Speaker 1: a lot of turtles, a lot of turtles. Musk claimed

1584
01:21:05,200 --> 01:21:07,559
Speaker 1: that SpaceX would make twelve launches a year for its

1585
01:21:07,600 --> 01:21:10,280
Speaker 1: commercial operations and that one day a man would leave

1586
01:21:10,320 --> 01:21:12,720
Speaker 1: Brownsville and go to Mars, which is how he got

1587
01:21:12,720 --> 01:21:15,559
Speaker 1: the local government on board. This was a lie. The

1588
01:21:15,560 --> 01:21:18,320
Speaker 1: plan quickly changed. Basically, he was like, this is where

1589
01:21:18,360 --> 01:21:20,439
Speaker 1: we're gonna like Cindament to Mars from. And then what

1590
01:21:20,520 --> 01:21:22,200
Speaker 1: he actually did is like, this is what we're going to.

1591
01:21:22,360 --> 01:21:23,680
Speaker 1: This is where we're going to test all of our

1592
01:21:23,760 --> 01:21:26,840
Speaker 1: rockets that will funk up and break um. So that's

1593
01:21:26,840 --> 01:21:29,559
Speaker 1: what it be. Can blow up in a fucking old

1594
01:21:29,560 --> 01:21:35,160
Speaker 1: people's houses. Yep, and SpaceX started running almost daily tests

1595
01:21:35,160 --> 01:21:36,840
Speaker 1: when they said they would be doing like once a

1596
01:21:36,880 --> 01:21:40,640
Speaker 1: month on experimental rockets that were very loud, often dangerous,

1597
01:21:40,680 --> 01:21:42,960
Speaker 1: and lead led to the beach being closed much of

1598
01:21:42,960 --> 01:21:46,360
Speaker 1: the time. The roads were increasingly blocked. Life blocked. Life

1599
01:21:46,360 --> 01:21:48,600
Speaker 1: was made almost unlivable for many residents due to the

1600
01:21:48,640 --> 01:21:52,240
Speaker 1: constant construction and experiments. Musk started buying up Boca Chica

1601
01:21:52,320 --> 01:21:55,160
Speaker 1: piece by piece. He offered extant residence three times their

1602
01:21:55,160 --> 01:21:58,120
Speaker 1: property value, which stands generous until you realize that property

1603
01:21:58,200 --> 01:22:01,080
Speaker 1: values were extremely low, which these old people who work

1604
01:22:01,120 --> 01:22:03,000
Speaker 1: their whole lives to be able to live on this beach.

1605
01:22:03,400 --> 01:22:06,000
Speaker 1: We're only getting enough money to buy like a tiny,

1606
01:22:06,040 --> 01:22:10,200
Speaker 1: like a tiny shitty place in like a city, like

1607
01:22:10,479 --> 01:22:12,760
Speaker 1: not a place like they had, which was a nice

1608
01:22:12,800 --> 01:22:14,040
Speaker 1: place where they got to be out in the middle

1609
01:22:14,040 --> 01:22:16,000
Speaker 1: of nowhere near a beach and live comfortably. Like they

1610
01:22:16,000 --> 01:22:18,920
Speaker 1: couldn't buy anything that was like what they were losing.

1611
01:22:19,280 --> 01:22:22,320
Speaker 1: Even though he was making this quote unquote generous offer

1612
01:22:22,439 --> 01:22:24,519
Speaker 1: because the property of values here were low, which is

1613
01:22:24,560 --> 01:22:28,280
Speaker 1: why he was able to anyways, fucking frustrating um and

1614
01:22:28,320 --> 01:22:31,639
Speaker 1: it's also always extremely low. When people funk with children

1615
01:22:31,720 --> 01:22:37,880
Speaker 1: or old people, it's like yeah, dude, yep, yep. As

1616
01:22:37,880 --> 01:22:40,360
Speaker 1: I type this, the community is rapidly dying and being

1617
01:22:40,360 --> 01:22:43,759
Speaker 1: turned into an industrial test site for experimental space rockets.

1618
01:22:43,800 --> 01:22:45,280
Speaker 1: And I'm sure if you were to have an honest

1619
01:22:45,280 --> 01:22:47,479
Speaker 1: conversation with him, Ellen would say that this was a

1620
01:22:47,560 --> 01:22:51,360
Speaker 1: necessary sacrifice for humanities future. After all, what a few

1621
01:22:51,360 --> 01:22:54,240
Speaker 1: old people's retirement houses really matter when measured against the

1622
01:22:54,520 --> 01:22:57,280
Speaker 1: quest to help mankind escape the surly bonds of earth.

1623
01:22:58,000 --> 01:22:59,920
Speaker 1: This is the line of logic that kind of follow

1624
01:23:00,120 --> 01:23:03,400
Speaker 1: through all of Elon's bad deeds. Yes, it sucks for them,

1625
01:23:03,400 --> 01:23:05,479
Speaker 1: but look at what he's trying to do. It's what

1626
01:23:05,479 --> 01:23:08,600
Speaker 1: people think when Tesla pays out eighty six thar in

1627
01:23:08,640 --> 01:23:11,360
Speaker 1: fines for polluting the environment with their toxic paint. It's

1628
01:23:11,400 --> 01:23:13,760
Speaker 1: what people think when they read that he told this

1629
01:23:13,840 --> 01:23:16,000
Speaker 1: to a worker who missed a crucial event to witness

1630
01:23:16,040 --> 01:23:18,479
Speaker 1: the birth of his child. Quote that is no excuse.

1631
01:23:18,520 --> 01:23:21,439
Speaker 1: I'm extremely disappointed. You need to figure out where your

1632
01:23:21,439 --> 01:23:23,840
Speaker 1: priorities are. We're changing the world and changing history, and

1633
01:23:23,880 --> 01:23:28,519
Speaker 1: you either commit or you don't. Ellen, and I saying this, Um, yeah,

1634
01:23:28,800 --> 01:23:30,640
Speaker 1: it's what people think. Would they read articles like this

1635
01:23:30,680 --> 01:23:34,519
Speaker 1: September two, nineteen Bloomberg piece about how Tesla repeatedly violated

1636
01:23:34,560 --> 01:23:37,880
Speaker 1: the National Labor Relations Act by repeatedly threatening and retaliating

1637
01:23:38,040 --> 01:23:41,559
Speaker 1: against employees for attempting to organize a union. Yeah, that's

1638
01:23:41,600 --> 01:23:45,759
Speaker 1: the ship that really fucking pissed me off to He's

1639
01:23:46,000 --> 01:23:50,280
Speaker 1: so much union busting, tons of union busting. Dude that

1640
01:23:50,439 --> 01:23:53,080
Speaker 1: tries to claim he's a socialist to me makes me

1641
01:23:53,160 --> 01:23:56,559
Speaker 1: laugh so hard. I'm like, bro, do you know what

1642
01:23:56,720 --> 01:24:01,519
Speaker 1: socialism is? It would mean workers own the means of

1643
01:24:01,520 --> 01:24:03,680
Speaker 1: production and also have the ability to say no to

1644
01:24:03,720 --> 01:24:07,479
Speaker 1: you about some things, which, like Ellen, think about that.

1645
01:24:07,479 --> 01:24:10,320
Speaker 1: That is not what you're fucking doing at all, you

1646
01:24:10,520 --> 01:24:14,720
Speaker 1: weird dictator. Yep. It's also what people think when they

1647
01:24:14,760 --> 01:24:17,479
Speaker 1: read articles like the one published in eight Pril of

1648
01:24:17,479 --> 01:24:20,599
Speaker 1: two thousand eighteen in The Intelligencer. This revealed the fact

1649
01:24:20,640 --> 01:24:24,320
Speaker 1: that quote company officials labeled toxic exposures, muscle strains, and

1650
01:24:24,360 --> 01:24:27,599
Speaker 1: repetitive stress injuries as personal medical issues or minor accidents

1651
01:24:27,640 --> 01:24:31,120
Speaker 1: requiring only first aid, lowering the official injury count at

1652
01:24:31,120 --> 01:24:33,839
Speaker 1: the factory, which is again one of the most dangerous

1653
01:24:33,880 --> 01:24:36,800
Speaker 1: factories in the country. But hey, it's okay because he's

1654
01:24:36,800 --> 01:24:41,080
Speaker 1: trying to save the world. What's a few hundred thousand. However,

1655
01:24:41,120 --> 01:24:45,400
Speaker 1: many people in pursuit of one man's probably with the

1656
01:24:45,439 --> 01:24:48,599
Speaker 1: tiny dicks dreams. If I know one thing that's never

1657
01:24:48,680 --> 01:24:51,519
Speaker 1: gone badly in history, Sophia, it's a man having a

1658
01:24:51,600 --> 01:24:54,280
Speaker 1: dream about how to save the world that he's willing

1659
01:24:54,320 --> 01:24:58,960
Speaker 1: to sacrifice other people for. That always works. Yeah, it

1660
01:24:59,040 --> 01:25:01,479
Speaker 1: works great. But you know, I'm gonna retract my statement

1661
01:25:01,479 --> 01:25:04,439
Speaker 1: about people with small dicks. You know, doesn't mean they're worse.

1662
01:25:04,640 --> 01:25:09,320
Speaker 1: That's in fact, I don't care. Elon Musk has a

1663
01:25:09,400 --> 01:25:12,559
Speaker 1: huge dick and he's an asshole. He's definitely as a

1664
01:25:12,600 --> 01:25:15,800
Speaker 1: huge dick, and I don't care, and it doesn't matter.

1665
01:25:15,920 --> 01:25:17,760
Speaker 1: And I don't know why I brought his dick into it.

1666
01:25:18,000 --> 01:25:21,080
Speaker 1: I'm now disgusted just picturing it. I know we've all

1667
01:25:21,160 --> 01:25:26,759
Speaker 1: become worse because of our exposure to Ellen. I'm blaming

1668
01:25:26,960 --> 01:25:32,479
Speaker 1: him for that. Great I'll join you. Thank you. Yeah uh.

1669
01:25:32,840 --> 01:25:35,240
Speaker 1: Some of those injuries and medical issues at the Tesla

1670
01:25:35,280 --> 01:25:37,519
Speaker 1: factory were caused by the fact that Elon hates the

1671
01:25:37,520 --> 01:25:40,479
Speaker 1: color yellow. The Intelligence who reports on claims made in

1672
01:25:40,520 --> 01:25:43,360
Speaker 1: a Reveals News article quote. Among the more baffling the

1673
01:25:43,360 --> 01:25:45,800
Speaker 1: tales in the report are several sections about how Elon

1674
01:25:45,880 --> 01:25:48,719
Speaker 1: Musk's personal tastes superie to have affected the factory safety

1675
01:25:48,760 --> 01:25:51,200
Speaker 1: for the worst. His preferences were well known and led

1676
01:25:51,200 --> 01:25:54,400
Speaker 1: to cutting back on those standard safety signals. Musk apparently

1677
01:25:54,400 --> 01:25:56,320
Speaker 1: really hates the color yellow, so instead of using the

1678
01:25:56,320 --> 01:25:59,160
Speaker 1: aforementioned Hugh Lane, lines in the factory floor are painted

1679
01:25:59,160 --> 01:26:01,599
Speaker 1: in shades of gray. Tesla denies this and sent reveal

1680
01:26:01,640 --> 01:26:04,320
Speaker 1: photos of rails and posts painted yellow in the factory.

1681
01:26:04,640 --> 01:26:06,960
Speaker 1: He also is not into having too many signs or

1682
01:26:07,000 --> 01:26:09,680
Speaker 1: the beeping sound forklifts make in reverse, all things that

1683
01:26:09,720 --> 01:26:12,600
Speaker 1: would seem important to keeping staff safe. It's just a

1684
01:26:12,600 --> 01:26:14,920
Speaker 1: matter of time before someone gets killed. A former safety

1685
01:26:14,960 --> 01:26:17,520
Speaker 1: lead set of the conditions in the factory. One employee

1686
01:26:17,520 --> 01:26:20,200
Speaker 1: attempted to call attention to these problems before eventually resigning.

1687
01:26:20,720 --> 01:26:23,200
Speaker 1: I could, and probably should go on, but this article

1688
01:26:23,320 --> 01:26:25,479
Speaker 1: is too long already. We haven't even talked about the

1689
01:26:25,479 --> 01:26:28,600
Speaker 1: time Ellen accused that heroic Cave diver of being a pedophile,

1690
01:26:29,120 --> 01:26:32,160
Speaker 1: nor have we discussed the fact that, yeah, I know,

1691
01:26:32,479 --> 01:26:36,040
Speaker 1: he's so shitty. We haven't also discussed the fact that,

1692
01:26:36,360 --> 01:26:38,680
Speaker 1: once he got in trouble for slandering a hero he

1693
01:26:38,760 --> 01:26:41,639
Speaker 1: hired a convicted felon to stock that heroic cave diver

1694
01:26:41,720 --> 01:26:43,639
Speaker 1: and try to find dirt on him. That's another thing

1695
01:26:43,720 --> 01:26:46,360
Speaker 1: that happens. But this article has to end at some

1696
01:26:46,479 --> 01:26:49,120
Speaker 1: fucking point, and the real question here, the thing that

1697
01:26:49,120 --> 01:26:52,200
Speaker 1: we have to ask, is whether or not anything Musk

1698
01:26:52,200 --> 01:26:54,799
Speaker 1: has made himself a part of or started is nearly

1699
01:26:54,840 --> 01:26:57,960
Speaker 1: as revolutionary or important as he claims it is. If

1700
01:26:58,000 --> 01:27:01,160
Speaker 1: this guy is really saving the old and bringing humanity

1701
01:27:01,200 --> 01:27:05,160
Speaker 1: into the future, uh, then you could say, or other

1702
01:27:05,240 --> 01:27:06,920
Speaker 1: some people would argue that a lot of his bad

1703
01:27:06,920 --> 01:27:09,679
Speaker 1: behavior is justified. At least that's the argument that could

1704
01:27:09,720 --> 01:27:11,960
Speaker 1: be made. If he's not, then he's just a rich

1705
01:27:11,960 --> 01:27:14,120
Speaker 1: asshole who got richer by pretending to save the world

1706
01:27:14,120 --> 01:27:16,439
Speaker 1: so he could get jacked off by worshipful fanboys by

1707
01:27:16,520 --> 01:27:19,560
Speaker 1: while participating in the plunder of our planets diminishing resources.

1708
01:27:19,880 --> 01:27:22,680
Speaker 1: I cannot answer this question definitively, but derive it a

1709
01:27:22,720 --> 01:27:24,479
Speaker 1: fool that I am. I can quote one of the

1710
01:27:24,520 --> 01:27:27,559
Speaker 1: more self reflective chunks of Ashley Vance's book about Musk,

1711
01:27:27,760 --> 01:27:29,439
Speaker 1: and I'm going to do that now. To close us out,

1712
01:27:29,520 --> 01:27:32,040
Speaker 1: the economist Tyler Cohen, who has earned some measure of

1713
01:27:32,040 --> 01:27:34,200
Speaker 1: fame in recent years for his insightful writings about the

1714
01:27:34,240 --> 01:27:36,560
Speaker 1: state of the technology industry and ideas on where it

1715
01:27:36,600 --> 01:27:39,680
Speaker 1: may go falls into that first camp and the great stagnation.

1716
01:27:39,760 --> 01:27:43,040
Speaker 1: Cohen bemoaned the lack of big technological advances and argued

1717
01:27:43,080 --> 01:27:45,280
Speaker 1: that the American economy has slowed and wages have been

1718
01:27:45,280 --> 01:27:47,960
Speaker 1: depressed as a result. In a figurative since the American

1719
01:27:48,000 --> 01:27:50,280
Speaker 1: economy has enjoyed lots of low hanging fruits since at

1720
01:27:50,320 --> 01:27:53,280
Speaker 1: least the seventeenth century, whether it be free land, lots

1721
01:27:53,280 --> 01:27:56,559
Speaker 1: of immigrant labor, or powerful new technologies, he wrote, Yet

1722
01:27:56,640 --> 01:27:59,280
Speaker 1: during the last forty years that low hanging fruit started disappearing,

1723
01:27:59,280 --> 01:28:01,120
Speaker 1: and we started pretend think it was still there. We

1724
01:28:01,160 --> 01:28:04,280
Speaker 1: have failed to recognize that we already technological plateau, and

1725
01:28:04,320 --> 01:28:06,439
Speaker 1: the trees are more bare than we would like to think.

1726
01:28:06,680 --> 01:28:09,599
Speaker 1: That's it, That's what has gone wrong. And his next book,

1727
01:28:09,680 --> 01:28:12,560
Speaker 1: Averages Over, Cohen predicted an unromantic future in which a

1728
01:28:12,600 --> 01:28:14,559
Speaker 1: great divide had occurred between the halves and they have

1729
01:28:14,720 --> 01:28:17,920
Speaker 1: nots and Cohen's future, huge gains and artificial intelligence will

1730
01:28:18,000 --> 01:28:20,320
Speaker 1: lead to the elimination if many of today's high employment

1731
01:28:20,360 --> 01:28:22,719
Speaker 1: lines of work. The people who thrive in this environment

1732
01:28:22,720 --> 01:28:24,960
Speaker 1: will be very bright and able to complement the machines

1733
01:28:25,000 --> 01:28:28,120
Speaker 1: and team effectively with them. As for the unemployed masses, well,

1734
01:28:28,320 --> 01:28:30,160
Speaker 1: many of them will find jobs going to work for

1735
01:28:30,200 --> 01:28:33,120
Speaker 1: the halves, who will employ teams of nanny's housekeepers and gardeners.

1736
01:28:33,400 --> 01:28:35,880
Speaker 1: If anything Musk is doing might alter the course of

1737
01:28:35,920 --> 01:28:39,559
Speaker 1: mankind towards a rosier future, Cohen can't find it. Coming

1738
01:28:39,640 --> 01:28:41,960
Speaker 1: up with true breakthrough ideas as much harder today than

1739
01:28:41,960 --> 01:28:44,040
Speaker 1: in the past, According to Cohen, because we've already mined

1740
01:28:44,080 --> 01:28:46,719
Speaker 1: the bulk of the big discoveries. During a luncheon Virginia,

1741
01:28:46,800 --> 01:28:49,360
Speaker 1: Cohen described Musk as not a genius inventor, but as

1742
01:28:49,400 --> 01:28:52,280
Speaker 1: an attention seeker, and not a terribly good one at that.

1743
01:28:52,680 --> 01:28:54,439
Speaker 1: I don't think a lot of people care about getting

1744
01:28:54,439 --> 01:28:56,000
Speaker 1: into Mars, he said. And it seems like a very

1745
01:28:56,080 --> 01:28:58,559
Speaker 1: expensive way to drive whatever breakthroughs you might get from it.

1746
01:28:58,720 --> 01:29:00,439
Speaker 1: And then you hear about the hyperloop. I don't think

1747
01:29:00,439 --> 01:29:02,400
Speaker 1: it is any intention of doing it. You have to

1748
01:29:02,400 --> 01:29:04,400
Speaker 1: wonder if it's not meant to just be publicity for

1749
01:29:04,479 --> 01:29:07,000
Speaker 1: his companies. As for Tesla, it might work, but you're

1750
01:29:07,040 --> 01:29:09,400
Speaker 1: still just pushing the problems back somewhere else. You still

1751
01:29:09,439 --> 01:29:11,360
Speaker 1: have to generate power. It could be that he is

1752
01:29:11,439 --> 01:29:15,360
Speaker 1: challenging convention less than people think. That's where I want

1753
01:29:15,360 --> 01:29:22,280
Speaker 1: to end. Wow, Wow, why when? Why you excited for

1754
01:29:22,280 --> 01:29:25,480
Speaker 1: all the people who are gonna get piste off at us? Yeah?

1755
01:29:25,520 --> 01:29:28,400
Speaker 1: I mean, I can't wait for people to to tell

1756
01:29:28,439 --> 01:29:30,320
Speaker 1: me that I should probably die and that I'm a cunt.

1757
01:29:30,400 --> 01:29:34,920
Speaker 1: I can't really wait. I'm excited for people to tell

1758
01:29:34,920 --> 01:29:37,920
Speaker 1: me that they're so unhappy that I'm confident in that

1759
01:29:37,960 --> 01:29:42,000
Speaker 1: I don't just giggle in the background anymore. I am

1760
01:29:42,000 --> 01:29:46,160
Speaker 1: excited for people to be briefly angry at me and

1761
01:29:46,200 --> 01:29:49,160
Speaker 1: then lose interest in being angry at me, because that's

1762
01:29:49,200 --> 01:29:51,000
Speaker 1: what happens when people get angry at ment on the

1763
01:29:51,040 --> 01:29:55,960
Speaker 1: Internet and instead focus their rage on Sophia. Because misogyny

1764
01:29:56,000 --> 01:30:00,400
Speaker 1: is very deeply boiled into our culture, and that slame

1765
01:30:01,920 --> 01:30:08,760
Speaker 1: and funk all of you for that. Sorry Sophia. Yeah,

1766
01:30:08,800 --> 01:30:11,400
Speaker 1: I'm the one who wrote fourteen thousand words about how

1767
01:30:11,439 --> 01:30:14,360
Speaker 1: I don't like Elon Musk, so please do come after me.

1768
01:30:14,560 --> 01:30:16,960
Speaker 1: I will not respond to you, because I don't care

1769
01:30:17,040 --> 01:30:24,200
Speaker 1: what weird Elon Musk nerds say on Twitter. Um, but

1770
01:30:24,280 --> 01:30:27,120
Speaker 1: do mail us knives, either as threats or as a gift.

1771
01:30:27,160 --> 01:30:31,000
Speaker 1: Either way, we get knives. I want a knife as

1772
01:30:31,000 --> 01:30:33,519
Speaker 1: a gift. Again, include a happy face so I know

1773
01:30:33,640 --> 01:30:39,320
Speaker 1: it's it's chill. Yeah, I'll take knives as gifts or threats. Uh,

1774
01:30:39,479 --> 01:30:45,200
Speaker 1: all kinds of attention are equal to me. All right, Sophia,

1775
01:30:45,439 --> 01:30:48,559
Speaker 1: you want to go out with a plug. Sure, I

1776
01:30:48,640 --> 01:30:52,120
Speaker 1: am releasing my first stand up album, Father's Day on

1777
01:30:52,200 --> 01:30:55,920
Speaker 1: Father's Day. Um, I don't have a father, so it's

1778
01:30:56,040 --> 01:31:00,360
Speaker 1: gonna be really fun and you guys should listen. And

1779
01:31:00,760 --> 01:31:04,360
Speaker 1: you should also listen to my podcast for Day Fiance

1780
01:31:04,560 --> 01:31:07,840
Speaker 1: with Myles Gray and Private Parts on Known with Court

1781
01:31:08,000 --> 01:31:15,439
Speaker 1: Kosak shout Out and yeah, follow me Twitter, Instagram, So

1782
01:31:16,800 --> 01:31:20,479
Speaker 1: listen to Sophia's album so that you can understand what

1783
01:31:20,560 --> 01:31:23,040
Speaker 1: it's like not to have a father and understand what

1784
01:31:23,120 --> 01:31:30,800
Speaker 1: it's like to be Elon Musk's kids exactly. If that's

1785
01:31:30,840 --> 01:31:34,200
Speaker 1: the last dick we're ending on Beautiful