WEBVTT - Thinking Sideways: Ray Gricar 0:00:00.280 --> 0:00:04.760 Thinking Sideways is not brought to you by Gouda Cheese. Instead, 0:00:04.880 --> 0:00:09.240 it's supported by the generous donations of our listeners on Patreon. 0:00:09.840 --> 0:00:13.399 Visit patreon dot com slash thinking sideways to learn more 0:00:13.720 --> 0:00:24.479 and thanks Thinking Sideways. I don't understand you never know 0:00:28.160 --> 0:00:31.880 what stories of things. We simply don't know the answer too. 0:00:34.560 --> 0:00:37.840 Hey guys, welcome to another episode of Thinking Sideways the podcast. 0:00:37.960 --> 0:00:43.040 I Am Devin, joined by and Joe, my co host 0:00:44.159 --> 0:00:47.240 this week. This week, I guess for now, for now, 0:00:47.280 --> 0:00:49.879 we may be replaced by muffins in the future. It's possible, 0:00:49.920 --> 0:00:54.600 always possible. Yeah. Uh. This week we're gonna talk about 0:00:54.640 --> 0:00:58.520 a mysterious disappearance. And this story was suggested by like 0:00:58.680 --> 0:01:02.320 literally everyone literally all the time, suggested a lot a 0:01:02.320 --> 0:01:04.440 couple of times. So I just decided that we would 0:01:04.480 --> 0:01:06.480 just do it, just rip the band aid off. I'm 0:01:06.480 --> 0:01:08.720 just gonna do it. No, this is not a bad 0:01:08.760 --> 0:01:13.360 little mystery. Actually, I understand. I understand why people get 0:01:13.440 --> 0:01:16.400 so excited about this one and why they why it 0:01:16.480 --> 0:01:20.800 catches everybody's attention. Yeah, we'll talk about problems with it 0:01:20.840 --> 0:01:22.120 in a little bit. Pulled the bottom out of this 0:01:22.120 --> 0:01:26.400 one later. Yeah, So if you don't read the episode titles. 0:01:29.600 --> 0:01:32.160 We're going to talk about the disappearance of Ray greek 0:01:32.160 --> 0:01:35.400 Car today, and here's a quick overview of the case 0:01:35.440 --> 0:01:40.520 before we dive in. On April five, Center County, Pennsylvania 0:01:40.680 --> 0:01:44.520 District Attorney, Ray greek Car called his girlfriend to let 0:01:44.560 --> 0:01:47.280 her know that he was out driving, or had just 0:01:47.319 --> 0:01:49.280 gone for a drive, or was on his way home. 0:01:49.480 --> 0:01:53.960 Accounts Ferry Um, however, his way to Louisbourg. You know, 0:01:54.360 --> 0:01:57.240 like I said, I've read so many different accounts already, 0:01:57.280 --> 0:01:59.520 we're into it. Read so many different accounts of what 0:01:59.600 --> 0:02:02.920 he said that it's hard to tell. But definitely he 0:02:02.960 --> 0:02:05.880 was in his car while he called her. And then 0:02:06.000 --> 0:02:09.320 when she arrived home from work, she went to the gym, 0:02:09.520 --> 0:02:12.280 came back, he still wasn't home. It had been twelve hours, 0:02:12.440 --> 0:02:17.480 so she called and reported him missing and that night. Yeah, 0:02:17.520 --> 0:02:20.440 and he's never been found. There's a lot of business. 0:02:20.480 --> 0:02:23.200 Get out of the way. So you guys just want 0:02:23.200 --> 0:02:26.239 to jump in. Yeah, Okay, who were gonna start with, 0:02:26.280 --> 0:02:28.040 because we got a couple of players. Yeah, so let's 0:02:28.040 --> 0:02:31.000 just start with like a basic overview of raised life 0:02:31.080 --> 0:02:34.200 up until this point. Ray was born in Cleveland, Ohio, 0:02:34.320 --> 0:02:39.959 in in the eighties, Raised then wife took a job 0:02:40.000 --> 0:02:42.720 teaching at penn State, and Ray decided to be a 0:02:42.720 --> 0:02:45.880 stay at home dad for their young adopted daughter, whose 0:02:45.919 --> 0:02:50.400 name was Laura. Totally instated. Still is Laura, She's still alive. 0:02:51.280 --> 0:02:56.120 He had been a prosecutor before before they moved to Pennsylvania. 0:02:56.520 --> 0:03:00.200 He specialized mostly in rape and murder cases prior to 0:03:00.320 --> 0:03:05.840 moving to Pennsylvania, and then when the sitting center County 0:03:06.200 --> 0:03:09.400 d A at that time, when he heard that Ray 0:03:09.480 --> 0:03:12.519 was living in the area and was unemployed, he basically 0:03:12.560 --> 0:03:15.760 recruited him to work, first just in his office and 0:03:15.800 --> 0:03:19.360 then as the assistant d A, which Ray accepted. He 0:03:19.400 --> 0:03:22.359 accepted the job. I think it was part time at first, 0:03:22.400 --> 0:03:25.560 and even when he became d A spoiler alert when 0:03:25.560 --> 0:03:30.160 he was elected d A in um Thank You eighty five, 0:03:30.360 --> 0:03:32.160 it was still a part time job until a few 0:03:32.240 --> 0:03:34.840 years later when he petitioned When Ray petitioned for it 0:03:34.920 --> 0:03:37.680 to become a full time job, which it sounds like 0:03:37.680 --> 0:03:39.880 it actually really was a full time job, So I 0:03:39.880 --> 0:03:42.800 don't really know what was happening before. I think they 0:03:42.800 --> 0:03:44.760 were paying him half what they would have to pay them. 0:03:44.840 --> 0:03:47.120 I guess that's true. Probably forty hours or more a 0:03:47.200 --> 0:03:52.800 week probably, So. Yeah, in in nineteen five that UM, 0:03:52.920 --> 0:03:55.760 the d A that hired Ray decided not to rerun 0:03:55.800 --> 0:03:58.240 for office. So Ray ran instead and won the spot 0:03:58.840 --> 0:04:01.480 because it's an elected position. It is an elected position, 0:04:01.760 --> 0:04:04.840 and he was UM. He was DA until his disappearance 0:04:04.880 --> 0:04:07.360 in two thousand five. And I know that I've been 0:04:07.360 --> 0:04:10.200 saying d A a lot. I'm sorry, district attorney, the 0:04:10.200 --> 0:04:12.280 district attorney. I'm going to continue to call it d A. 0:04:12.400 --> 0:04:14.440 But for those of you who are not from America 0:04:14.640 --> 0:04:18.120 or maybe be don't know what a district attorney is 0:04:18.160 --> 0:04:21.800 in America, Basically, it's what we call our public prosecutors 0:04:22.320 --> 0:04:25.320 at like at a very base level obviously, UM, in 0:04:25.360 --> 0:04:30.479 England they're called chief crown prosecutors. It's the local districts attorney. Yeah, basically, 0:04:30.640 --> 0:04:33.400 and they are they are elected officials. I mean, there's 0:04:33.400 --> 0:04:35.280 a little more cloud that comes along with it, but 0:04:35.320 --> 0:04:37.279 that at the basic level, that's what it is. The 0:04:37.320 --> 0:04:39.640 sense that I got from UM all of the reading 0:04:39.640 --> 0:04:41.440 and all of the interviews and all of that stuff 0:04:41.440 --> 0:04:44.640 that UM I've done all the research around this is 0:04:44.680 --> 0:04:48.640 that Ray was really a good person. Some people say 0:04:48.680 --> 0:04:50.560 maybe he was a bit of a ladies man, but 0:04:50.680 --> 0:04:53.680 really in his core he seemed to have the best 0:04:53.839 --> 0:04:58.560 of four people. A. Yeah, I mean he he would 0:04:58.560 --> 0:05:02.400 often if cases went again his own personal moral code, 0:05:02.920 --> 0:05:05.640 he would hand them off to people that worked for 0:05:05.720 --> 0:05:08.880 him to prosecute them, uh, to just make sure that 0:05:08.920 --> 0:05:12.160 everything was being done fairly instead of against the death 0:05:12.160 --> 0:05:14.720 penalty he did. Yeah, so he often handed that off 0:05:14.760 --> 0:05:18.000 to his assistant d A. Um, but he really wasn't 0:05:18.080 --> 0:05:22.240 scared to take on big cases. Um. There's some talk 0:05:22.279 --> 0:05:26.520 about you know, so Okay Center County is where Penn 0:05:26.600 --> 0:05:30.839 State is obviously because that's where they moved Conversinia State University, 0:05:30.880 --> 0:05:34.480 which has had some troubles, which we'll talk about some 0:05:34.520 --> 0:05:36.760 of the big old stuff. Yeah, it's a big college. 0:05:37.000 --> 0:05:39.840 So you know, sometimes the athletes they're get in trouble, 0:05:40.279 --> 0:05:43.200 for instance. And he prosecuted almost all those cases. He 0:05:43.320 --> 0:05:47.599 prosecuted a lot of murder, rape, mafia cases, and there 0:05:47.680 --> 0:05:50.280 was nothing he was he wasn't scared to go after that. 0:05:50.480 --> 0:05:53.320 He doesn't an it was kind of his job. Yeah, 0:05:53.320 --> 0:05:55.479 I mean, it was his job. But he also wasn't 0:05:55.480 --> 0:05:59.400 scared to really go after people. And fun fact, you 0:05:59.400 --> 0:06:01.279 guys may or my not be familiar with the murder 0:06:01.320 --> 0:06:05.000 of Beth Doe, which was a Jane Doe in in 0:06:05.080 --> 0:06:09.320 Pennsylvania Center County. UM. It was actually pretty horrific case. 0:06:09.800 --> 0:06:12.920 But he ended up putting the serial killer that killed 0:06:12.960 --> 0:06:15.840 Beth Doe behind bars. They still don't know who Beth 0:06:15.920 --> 0:06:18.160 though was, but they found who killed her, so well 0:06:18.200 --> 0:06:22.120 that's cool. Yeah. Good. John Ray's wife, his first wife 0:06:22.839 --> 0:06:25.719 that worked for penn State, was named Barbara Gray. She 0:06:25.839 --> 0:06:31.080 and Ray did divorce in and then in Ray's brother 0:06:31.160 --> 0:06:35.919 committed suicide. Ray remarried in nine six, but also divorced. 0:06:35.960 --> 0:06:38.240 He married a woman named Emma. But you will almost 0:06:38.279 --> 0:06:40.720 never see that anywhere, except for the fact that she 0:06:41.279 --> 0:06:44.120 is still maybe writing a book about Ray. Yeah, it's 0:06:45.520 --> 0:06:49.240 very long time. Yeah. I think the reason that she 0:06:49.640 --> 0:06:52.640 feels like she can write a book about Ray and 0:06:52.760 --> 0:06:55.480 his life is something we're going to talk about in 0:06:55.560 --> 0:06:58.640 a minute. But she was married to Ray until two 0:06:58.680 --> 0:07:02.719 thousand one, so from two thousand one she was his wife, 0:07:03.440 --> 0:07:05.920 and then you know, they divorced in two thousand one, 0:07:06.040 --> 0:07:08.720 and then in two thousand two or maybe two thousand three, 0:07:08.800 --> 0:07:12.840 it's hard to tell. Ray moved in with his uh 0:07:13.000 --> 0:07:16.320 Air quotes longtime girlfriend Patty, who also worked in the 0:07:16.320 --> 0:07:21.360 district Attorney's office. I keep using air quotes with the 0:07:21.440 --> 0:07:25.280 longtime girlfriend thing because they were together for three years 0:07:25.400 --> 0:07:30.080 as actual adults over forty. Apparently three years is a 0:07:30.120 --> 0:07:32.840 is a long term relationship. I don't know. Okay, well, yeah, 0:07:32.880 --> 0:07:35.640 he was in his mid fifties at the time of 0:07:35.680 --> 0:07:38.320 his disappearances. Correct, he would have been, yeah, he would 0:07:38.320 --> 0:07:41.840 have been. Yeah. It's it's funny, though, I really I 0:07:41.920 --> 0:07:46.440 really found it interesting the descriptions by different people of 0:07:46.480 --> 0:07:50.720 that relationship with Patty versus his other wives. I think 0:07:50.760 --> 0:07:54.520 it was much more of a friendship than it was 0:07:54.800 --> 0:07:59.440 than a passionate romance. I would say it was a partnership. Yeah, 0:07:58.200 --> 0:08:02.360 that's good, But it did seem less. You know, everybody says, well, 0:08:02.400 --> 0:08:04.480 his marriage with Emma was so passionate. There was a 0:08:04.520 --> 0:08:08.720 lot of passion, which means which, which means they fought 0:08:08.800 --> 0:08:11.520 a lot. But they also I think we're passionate in 0:08:11.640 --> 0:08:14.200 terms of the way they expressed themselves positively to each 0:08:14.240 --> 0:08:18.080 other as But it does seem like, you know, everybody says, well, 0:08:18.160 --> 0:08:21.080 Patty's really just his soul mate. She describes herself as 0:08:21.440 --> 0:08:23.560 as soulmates and you know, all of that stuff. But 0:08:23.680 --> 0:08:26.600 it was only three years. Again, who's to say, and 0:08:26.640 --> 0:08:29.680 I don't know, but you know, who's to say it 0:08:29.680 --> 0:08:32.520 probably would have lasted forever. But you know, they always 0:08:32.760 --> 0:08:35.360 they always call her a long time girlfriend. So that's 0:08:35.400 --> 0:08:38.560 where that is. Ray was planning to retire that year, 0:08:39.360 --> 0:08:43.160 um in two thousand five, sorry, the year he disappeared 0:08:43.360 --> 0:08:45.440 and his turn was up. He just wasn't seeking re 0:08:45.480 --> 0:08:49.559 election and his family does say that he reported feeling 0:08:49.600 --> 0:08:55.200 overworked and feeling really tired a lot. Now, the name 0:08:55.520 --> 0:08:58.800 Ray greek Car might be familiar to you, even if 0:08:58.840 --> 0:09:03.520 you didn't know that he doesn't heard and that's because 0:09:04.000 --> 0:09:06.760 of Jerry Sandusky. We're going to talk about some not 0:09:06.880 --> 0:09:09.600 so great stuff for a minute. I believe what I 0:09:09.640 --> 0:09:13.600 referred to it earlier was I things things involving kids 0:09:14.240 --> 0:09:19.480 and that. Yeah. Yeah, So if that bothers you, go 0:09:19.520 --> 0:09:23.400 ahead and skip ahead about five minutes, because you may 0:09:23.480 --> 0:09:25.480 you may not want to hear it, but but you 0:09:25.520 --> 0:09:27.800 may want to hear the rest of the story. So, ok, 0:09:28.240 --> 0:09:30.680 so let's talk about the gym that was Jerry. Jerry 0:09:30.720 --> 0:09:35.000 Sandusky still is i'mers have heard of this guy? You know, 0:09:35.960 --> 0:09:38.720 I would guess, but I you know, I don't know. 0:09:38.840 --> 0:09:41.280 I didn't know the details until we looked into this. 0:09:41.679 --> 0:09:44.160 I never looked into it, right, because why would you 0:09:44.559 --> 0:09:47.960 really you don't really want to. So. Jerry Sandusky is 0:09:48.000 --> 0:09:51.320 a former assistant football coach at Penn State, which, yes, 0:09:51.440 --> 0:09:55.199 there's already a little bit of his wife. Ray Creeker's 0:09:55.240 --> 0:09:59.000 wife worked for Penn State. Again, huge employer, not to 0:09:59.000 --> 0:10:01.000 say anything, but and they have a lot of clout 0:10:01.000 --> 0:10:04.880 in that town. Yeah. Yeah, But Jerry Sandusky was kind 0:10:04.880 --> 0:10:08.880 of an all around bad kind of human being. He 0:10:09.120 --> 0:10:11.720 founded this charity, which I recognize. I'm going to follow 0:10:11.760 --> 0:10:13.959 up with something that sounds like an awesome thing, but 0:10:14.160 --> 0:10:16.960 just wait. He founded a charity called The Second Mile, 0:10:17.080 --> 0:10:22.120 which served underprivileged youth. UM. George W had really high yeah, 0:10:22.120 --> 0:10:25.200 Bush sorry, had really high praise for the organization. He 0:10:25.280 --> 0:10:27.880 said that it was a shining example. UM in a 0:10:28.880 --> 0:10:31.480 letter that he wrote words I'm sure he regretted. Not 0:10:31.840 --> 0:10:35.160 too far after that, it was a little while be horror. 0:10:35.160 --> 0:10:36.520 At the end of the whole thing came to light. 0:10:37.720 --> 0:10:41.400 It hit the fan, Yeah, it hit the fan. Uh. 0:10:41.400 --> 0:10:44.600 It's estimated that that organization served as many as a 0:10:44.640 --> 0:10:49.480 hundred thousand kids annually. Uh in nearly um it was, 0:10:49.600 --> 0:10:54.480 and it existed almost thirty six years. It's a lot 0:10:54.480 --> 0:10:57.320 of kids. So the percentages that were about to start 0:10:57.320 --> 0:11:02.320 talking about are low, but extremely but like any even 0:11:02.360 --> 0:11:05.520 like point o percent is too many percents. But anyway, 0:11:05.520 --> 0:11:08.480 that's just long story short. He Sandusky basically set this 0:11:08.640 --> 0:11:11.040 up and turn it into his own personal dating service 0:11:11.160 --> 0:11:15.000 a little. Yeah, it turns out, yeah, Sandusky was raping 0:11:15.320 --> 0:11:19.040 young boys that he met through the Second Mile. Officially 0:11:19.280 --> 0:11:23.240 he was charged with lusting nine boys, but he was 0:11:23.280 --> 0:11:27.319 also charged with forty five counts against him. He was 0:11:27.360 --> 0:11:30.880 sexually abusing his adopted son Matt for six or seven years, 0:11:31.480 --> 0:11:34.680 and he met literally all his victims through the Second Mile. 0:11:35.960 --> 0:11:39.120 He was vetting them. He's looking for a very specific 0:11:39.640 --> 0:11:43.040 personality type and sexuality type that was open to the 0:11:43.120 --> 0:11:45.760 kind of suggestion that he was open to. And all 0:11:45.840 --> 0:11:52.559 of them had no father figures. So he sadly very stereotypical. 0:11:52.840 --> 0:11:55.800 Yeah for a predator like that. Yeah, I'm of the 0:11:55.840 --> 0:11:58.840 opinion that he likely had many, many more victims than 0:11:58.960 --> 0:12:02.800 just the nine, But that's you know, my own personal feeling. 0:12:02.920 --> 0:12:05.800 That's for another mystery. That's for a different mystery. Yeah, 0:12:06.360 --> 0:12:08.959 in the spring of two thousand eight, Aaron Fisher Um 0:12:09.120 --> 0:12:12.440 was a high school student where Sandusky was volunteering as 0:12:12.480 --> 0:12:15.160 an assistant football coach, and Aaron told his mom that 0:12:15.200 --> 0:12:19.000 Sandusky had been touching him inappropriately. And Aaron was a freshman. 0:12:19.080 --> 0:12:21.439 Aaron was a freshman. Yeah, so that would make him 0:12:21.480 --> 0:12:28.480 what four depending on when his birthday last. Sandusky's relationship 0:12:28.559 --> 0:12:31.400 quote unquote with Aaron had started in two thousand five 0:12:31.679 --> 0:12:34.120 with the second Mile. And it turns out that a 0:12:34.160 --> 0:12:37.360 graduate assistant coach in Penn State had witnessed Sandusky abusing 0:12:37.360 --> 0:12:40.600 boys in two thousand one and had told Joe Paterno, 0:12:40.720 --> 0:12:43.000 who was the Penn State head coach at the time. 0:12:43.440 --> 0:12:47.040 Pa turn out, to his credit, it seems did report this. 0:12:47.520 --> 0:12:50.840 He sure took his time. He did. He was on vacation, 0:12:50.960 --> 0:12:52.680 so you know, he had to wait. He was about 0:12:52.679 --> 0:12:55.960 to go on vacation when um, when he was told 0:12:56.000 --> 0:12:58.679 about the case. And then he was like, well, I'm 0:12:58.679 --> 0:13:00.360 going to go on vacation, then I'll come back and 0:13:00.360 --> 0:13:05.240 tell everybody that Sandusky has been touching people inappropriately, among 0:13:05.280 --> 0:13:08.559 other things. Yeah. Yeah, so, um, but the people who 0:13:08.559 --> 0:13:13.240 were above Joe Paterno. Seems it seems like they said, oh, 0:13:13.400 --> 0:13:17.560 I'm sure Sandusky was just horsing around, even though I 0:13:17.559 --> 0:13:21.120 mean some of the descriptions are are like, oh, Janitor 0:13:21.200 --> 0:13:25.880 saw him behind a boy. They were both naked, the 0:13:25.920 --> 0:13:27.760 boy was pushed up against the wall, and they were 0:13:27.760 --> 0:13:32.040 slapping noises quote unquote. It's just like, but that didn't 0:13:32.160 --> 0:13:35.320 you know, nobody at Penn State seemed to really. I 0:13:35.320 --> 0:13:39.679 think it's one of those situations where the disturbing nature 0:13:39.800 --> 0:13:43.280 of what was going on in each retelling it got 0:13:43.360 --> 0:13:46.200 sanitized more and more to the point that I was like, oh, 0:13:46.240 --> 0:13:48.560 they were just playing around the shower. Yeah. So the 0:13:48.640 --> 0:13:52.800 two people um that Joe Paterno did tell it testified 0:13:52.800 --> 0:13:54.840 in court that all they heard was there was some 0:13:54.920 --> 0:13:58.640 horsing around happening in their shower. So they were totally clean. 0:13:58.720 --> 0:14:01.280 But it sounds like Joe turn of stories. He told 0:14:01.280 --> 0:14:04.320 them and they said, don't worry about it, ignore it. 0:14:04.440 --> 0:14:07.920 Either way, it doesn't really matter. I'm telling this story 0:14:08.000 --> 0:14:14.520 because the earliest documentation of Sandusky's abuse was by the 0:14:14.559 --> 0:14:18.240 aforementioned adopted son, Matt. Okay, well, Matt didn't report it, 0:14:18.400 --> 0:14:20.840 but Matt and one of his adopted sisters tried to 0:14:20.840 --> 0:14:25.680 commit suicide, which caused uh CPS Child Protected Services to 0:14:25.800 --> 0:14:28.720 raise some concerns and say they needed to investigate. That's 0:14:28.760 --> 0:14:31.720 kind of unusual to kids committing suicide at the same 0:14:31.760 --> 0:14:34.640 time we're attempting suicide. Yeah, And actually, the thing that 0:14:34.680 --> 0:14:36.800 was really interesting about this is I've read a lot 0:14:36.840 --> 0:14:40.920 of the stuff from Matt and he would Child Protective 0:14:40.920 --> 0:14:43.800 Services removed him from the house and took him obviously 0:14:43.920 --> 0:14:45.560 like he was in the hospital, and they said, Okay, 0:14:45.560 --> 0:14:47.120 we're going to place you somewhere else. This is when 0:14:47.160 --> 0:14:49.200 he was still a foster kid, and he actually wrote 0:14:49.240 --> 0:14:51.520 a letter to Child Protective Services saying that he wanted 0:14:51.560 --> 0:14:53.920 to be placed back with Sandusky, despite the fact that 0:14:53.960 --> 0:14:57.040 he had been being lusted. So, I don't know what. 0:14:57.440 --> 0:15:00.320 I didn't care to go into too much detail onto 0:15:00.400 --> 0:15:02.520 the kind of mind games that Sandusky must have been 0:15:02.560 --> 0:15:05.400 playing with these young boys, but that I think is 0:15:05.480 --> 0:15:09.160 very indicative of the kind of power he had over them. 0:15:09.320 --> 0:15:13.880 In an eleven year old boy later known as Victim 0:15:13.960 --> 0:15:17.160 six in the indictments of Sandusky, came forward to test 0:15:17.200 --> 0:15:19.600 by that Sandusky had showered naked with him and another 0:15:19.640 --> 0:15:23.520 boy enter Ray greek Car. Not not in the shower, 0:15:23.520 --> 0:15:27.800 I hope. No. Not into no, no, not no, no, 0:15:27.920 --> 0:15:31.920 he was the district attorney into the story. I'm sorry 0:15:32.800 --> 0:15:35.040 you leave with something out there. Sandusky showered with these 0:15:35.040 --> 0:15:38.800 two young boys, and he also touched them, right, Yes, 0:15:39.920 --> 0:15:43.080 I was, you know, trying to sanitize it a little bit. Yet. Anyway, 0:15:43.480 --> 0:15:49.040 the victim's mom apparently wanted to talk to Sandusky, which 0:15:49.080 --> 0:15:52.240 is fair, and I guess i've you know, I've heard 0:15:52.240 --> 0:15:54.560 it both ways. Either Sandusky said, hey, I want to 0:15:54.600 --> 0:15:56.920 talk to you about this, or she said we need 0:15:56.960 --> 0:16:00.480 to talk about this, But either way, they range to 0:16:00.520 --> 0:16:03.840 talk about the situation. She had she had reported the situation, 0:16:03.880 --> 0:16:06.400 she had reported it to, she'd reported to the police, 0:16:06.400 --> 0:16:08.920 who reported it to greek Car, and I understood that 0:16:09.320 --> 0:16:17.160 her confronting Sandusky was actually at the prompting of yeah, 0:16:17.200 --> 0:16:19.880 so let's see what you can get. It was a 0:16:19.880 --> 0:16:22.080 bit of a sting. Yeah, you know what absolutely was. 0:16:22.120 --> 0:16:24.560 And this was one of the things that a lot 0:16:24.600 --> 0:16:27.480 of people say about him when you start talking about 0:16:27.720 --> 0:16:30.840 Ray as a professional, is that he was always the 0:16:30.920 --> 0:16:32.600 kind of guy to say, okay, did you try this 0:16:32.680 --> 0:16:35.400 though thinking outside the box? Yeah, you know, he would 0:16:35.400 --> 0:16:37.640 take it. That next step is the thing that people 0:16:37.680 --> 0:16:40.080 say about him. And so I think, you know, the 0:16:40.120 --> 0:16:44.480 mom said, well, my son is being abused, and he said, okay, 0:16:44.480 --> 0:16:46.920 but we need something more concrete than your eleven year 0:16:46.960 --> 0:16:50.880 old child saying that so sadly. Yeah, unfortunately, so let's 0:16:50.920 --> 0:16:53.640 see if we can get Sandusky to admit it. So 0:16:53.880 --> 0:16:56.360 they set up the sting where Sandusky comes to the 0:16:56.400 --> 0:16:59.240 mom's house, and they set up recording devices all around 0:16:59.240 --> 0:17:03.600 the house, and there's cops sitting outside monitoring, and you know, 0:17:03.720 --> 0:17:07.240 like you like, almost like on TV. I guess, and 0:17:07.840 --> 0:17:14.560 apparently apparently Sandusky says, uh, and I quote, I understand 0:17:14.800 --> 0:17:17.119 I was wrong. I wish I could get forgiveness from you. 0:17:17.520 --> 0:17:19.240 I know I won't get it from you. I wish 0:17:19.240 --> 0:17:22.320 I were dead unquote, which sounds like an admission to me, 0:17:22.800 --> 0:17:26.199 but okay, it's not. He doesn't actually say I'm going 0:17:26.240 --> 0:17:30.720 to really confess. He doesn't. There's there's nothing there, there's nothing. Unfortunately, 0:17:30.760 --> 0:17:33.119 there's not. And I mean, I think I was probably 0:17:33.160 --> 0:17:38.760 smart on Sandusky's part. Unfortunately, so Ray decides there's not 0:17:38.880 --> 0:17:43.520 enough evidence to prosecute Sandusky. I agree, I think there 0:17:43.560 --> 0:17:46.680 probably wasn't enough. Unfortunately, again, you can't just say it's 0:17:46.720 --> 0:17:49.400 gonna it's gonna be this grown man who was really 0:17:49.400 --> 0:17:51.520 well respected in the community. It's going to be his 0:17:51.560 --> 0:17:55.440 word forces versus an eleven year old boy. Well, I'm 0:17:55.440 --> 0:17:57.720 sure she. He probably sat down with the mother too 0:17:57.760 --> 0:18:00.040 and probably said, look, you know, this is gonna be 0:18:00.040 --> 0:18:02.639 a high profile case, a lot of publicity. A kid's 0:18:02.680 --> 0:18:06.840 name might not stay secret. And so that's part with 0:18:06.920 --> 0:18:10.120 these any kind of situation, this is almost there. They're 0:18:10.160 --> 0:18:13.760 a watershed moment. It's kind of like the Cosby case. 0:18:14.520 --> 0:18:20.000 One comes out and everybody goes that didn't happen, and 0:18:20.040 --> 0:18:23.080 then suddenly a whole bunch more show up, and that's 0:18:23.080 --> 0:18:26.040 when it gains momentum. But there may not have been 0:18:26.160 --> 0:18:28.800 enough there for him to say I really think that 0:18:28.880 --> 0:18:30.600 this could go. I mean, I'm sure that's why he 0:18:30.640 --> 0:18:33.439 didn't pursue it isn't he didn't have even enough to 0:18:33.480 --> 0:18:37.080 begin with. Yeah, and you know, but unfortunately a lot 0:18:37.200 --> 0:18:40.960 of the stuff that Sandusky did eventually get charged with 0:18:41.560 --> 0:18:45.040 happened after that. So a lot of people talk about 0:18:45.680 --> 0:18:49.159 if if Ray had just prosecuted Sandusky, none of this 0:18:49.200 --> 0:18:51.359 would have ever happened, and I don't know that that's true. 0:18:51.400 --> 0:18:56.240 I Sandusky may have started getting sloppy. Yeah you're getting well, No, no, no, 0:18:56.280 --> 0:18:59.960 I just mean that people blame Ray for Sandusky's action. 0:19:00.680 --> 0:19:02.879 There were a lot of people who enabled him, a 0:19:02.960 --> 0:19:05.240 Ray Greek Car was at least among them. I would agree, 0:19:05.280 --> 0:19:07.080 I totally agree with all of his victims should have 0:19:07.119 --> 0:19:09.960 said something number one and a lot of other people suspected. 0:19:10.080 --> 0:19:13.360 And and by the way, we're not pointing finger at 0:19:13.440 --> 0:19:17.480 victims for not coming from I don't know, I understand, 0:19:17.560 --> 0:19:20.240 but I understand why they wouldn't. I just I don't 0:19:20.240 --> 0:19:24.080 want anybody to be upset by that. Yeah, anyway, this 0:19:24.160 --> 0:19:28.640 is not an episode about Sandoski thrankfully, Yeah, we're not. 0:19:28.840 --> 0:19:31.400 I can think I can pretty solidly say we are 0:19:31.480 --> 0:19:34.920 never doing an episode on Santa. Yeah. I can guarantee 0:19:34.480 --> 0:19:37.479 that I don't have a lot of interest in that case. Actually, 0:19:37.520 --> 0:19:40.040 but okay, I will say that you can't talk about 0:19:40.040 --> 0:19:42.880 Greek Car without talking about Sandesky, because the Internet thinks 0:19:42.920 --> 0:19:46.080 they're intimately connected. Yes, so that was just a little 0:19:46.080 --> 0:19:49.359 bit of really icky background. I promise it will factor 0:19:49.400 --> 0:19:53.840 in again in a couple of minutes. Let's get let's 0:19:53.880 --> 0:19:57.560 get back to Ray greekr. Shall we? Yeah? And Patty 0:19:57.760 --> 0:20:02.439 and Patty Yeah. In April fifteen, two five, all around 0:20:02.440 --> 0:20:06.240 eleven thirty, Ray calls his longtime girlfriend Patty to let 0:20:06.240 --> 0:20:11.600 her know that he's been driving. It's very unclear in 0:20:11.640 --> 0:20:14.439 all of the stories that I've read. I've read that 0:20:14.720 --> 0:20:17.520 Patty said he was playing hooky the entire day. I've 0:20:17.560 --> 0:20:20.720 read that his colleague said he was playing hooky for 0:20:20.760 --> 0:20:22.240 half a day, like he was going to take half 0:20:22.240 --> 0:20:26.520 a day off. I've heard that he was actually working. 0:20:26.600 --> 0:20:28.720 I've heard that he was driving home. I've heard that 0:20:28.760 --> 0:20:31.600 he was driving to that he told her that he 0:20:31.640 --> 0:20:34.480 was driving too somewhere. All I know is that he said, 0:20:34.880 --> 0:20:38.719 I'm on, I'm I'm driving in this valley, which, for 0:20:38.760 --> 0:20:41.120 all I know, I mean, it could be that that's 0:20:41.480 --> 0:20:43.320 that meant he was on his way somewhere, and couldn't 0:20:43.320 --> 0:20:45.000 mean he meant his he was on his way. I 0:20:45.040 --> 0:20:49.720 don't know exactly, but yeah, I had to. But we 0:20:49.760 --> 0:20:51.679 do you know that the cell phone paying to tower 0:20:51.760 --> 0:20:55.320 that was next to Highway one, so he was driving 0:20:55.320 --> 0:20:57.800 down that road he was Yeah, No, absolutely, and that 0:20:57.880 --> 0:21:00.560 doesn't that's not an issue For me, it's us what 0:21:00.640 --> 0:21:03.120 he was saying and what the circumstances surrounding this are. 0:21:03.440 --> 0:21:06.120 And that I think is very important because there are 0:21:06.119 --> 0:21:08.399 some things that people bring up as being weird that 0:21:08.520 --> 0:21:11.960 aren't weird. If he was coming from work, say right, 0:21:12.640 --> 0:21:14.320 but if he was playing hookie the entire day, it 0:21:14.400 --> 0:21:16.560 is kind of weird. Well, but the thing is is, 0:21:16.600 --> 0:21:19.320 I know Patty said that he decided to go driving, 0:21:20.119 --> 0:21:22.440 which he was. Yeah, he was known to go take 0:21:22.480 --> 0:21:24.600 a I'm not one of those guys, but some people 0:21:24.640 --> 0:21:29.240 like to take a three four hour drive and just dry. 0:21:30.160 --> 0:21:32.800 And he had he loved his little car he had. 0:21:32.960 --> 0:21:35.320 He had a red Mini Cooper and he loved to 0:21:35.400 --> 0:21:37.840 drive that thing, which is always hilarious to me because 0:21:37.880 --> 0:21:40.920 he was he do you know how I think it 0:21:41.000 --> 0:21:43.879 was like seven. Yeah, he's a big guy and it 0:21:43.920 --> 0:21:45.600 always cracks me up. And I see big guys Mini 0:21:45.600 --> 0:21:48.760 Cooper's except Mini Cooper's fit tall people, which is the 0:21:48.800 --> 0:21:51.320 amazing part about the Mini Cooper. This episode brought to 0:21:51.359 --> 0:21:55.360 you by Mini Cooper Product Place. Yeah, I do think 0:21:55.400 --> 0:21:59.520 that he was driving one north or east northeast to 0:21:59.640 --> 0:22:04.280 Louis because that afternoon. Yeah, No, there's and there's no 0:22:04.320 --> 0:22:06.600 doubt in my mind that he was in Louisbourg in 0:22:06.640 --> 0:22:09.040 that afternoon. Whether he told Patty that's where he was 0:22:09.080 --> 0:22:12.479 going or not, I'm not sure. Whether he was, you know, 0:22:12.800 --> 0:22:15.040 knocking off work for a half day or a whole day, 0:22:15.119 --> 0:22:17.320 I don't know. All I know is he ended up 0:22:17.320 --> 0:22:20.600 in Louisbourg that afternoon. I'm not I'm not concerned about 0:22:20.640 --> 0:22:23.600 that timetable at all. But again it does depend a 0:22:23.600 --> 0:22:26.400 little bit. We'll talk about them a little bit. Actually. So, 0:22:26.440 --> 0:22:31.080 as we said, um, Patty gets home from work, she 0:22:31.160 --> 0:22:36.080 doesn't see Ray. So she goes to the gym, She 0:22:36.160 --> 0:22:42.120 comes back, calls his cell phone a bunch of times, Netflix, No, 0:22:42.240 --> 0:22:47.359 not yet, maybe drink spear or some wine. Calls rays 0:22:47.359 --> 0:22:49.600 cellphone a number of times, she says, it goes straight 0:22:49.600 --> 0:22:52.280