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Speaker 1: Hello, Welcome to Club sha Shade. I am your host.

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Speaker 1: I'm also the proprietor Club Shade Shade. The guy that's

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Speaker 1: on my should that stopped by a few minutes. Today

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Speaker 1: there's a twelve time All Star, two time All Star MVP.

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Speaker 1: He's the Finals MVP, a two time champion, a national champion,

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Speaker 1: most outstanding player in college, one of the fifty greatest

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Speaker 1: players in NBA history. Isaiah Thomas. All my life, running

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Speaker 1: all my life, sacrifice, hustle, back, pricing, Want a slice?

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Speaker 1: Got the bron dice to swath all my life. I've

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Speaker 1: been grinding all my life, all my life. The running,

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Speaker 1: all my life, sacrifice, hustle, baggy, pricing, Want a slice?

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Speaker 1: Got the bronic swath all my life. I've been grinding

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Speaker 1: all my life. Isaiah, how are you today? I am good, brother,

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Speaker 1: and thanks for having me on your show. Thanks for

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Speaker 1: coming on. In all my years i've known you, Isaiah,

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Speaker 1: I've never not seen you in a suit. Do you

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Speaker 1: wear jean? Do you wear shorts? Do you wear anything

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Speaker 1: other than suits? You know what? One time, one time

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Speaker 1: I remember I went to do uh, we did a

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Speaker 1: little thing at NBA TV that open court set. Okay,

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Speaker 1: on us all to come casual, right, So I put

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Speaker 1: on jeans in the shirt and Steve Smith grabbed me, right,

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Speaker 1: he goes, n No, no, you always wear a jacket.

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Speaker 1: So this is this is like this is like my

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Speaker 1: grade school Catholic boy. You know, okay, Asaiah, you grew

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Speaker 1: up on the West Side of Chicago, nine brothers and sisters. Obviously,

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Speaker 1: normally when families come from big family like that, the

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Speaker 1: parents are very disciplined, very strict. How were you upbringing

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Speaker 1: in Chicago, just as you just described it? My my

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Speaker 1: my family, you know, six brothers, two sisters. We were

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Speaker 1: a big family. Mom and dad were very Uh, I

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Speaker 1: guess you would say strict. But you know when we

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Speaker 1: when we talk about being strict and disciplinarians at that age,

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Speaker 1: they only telling you to do the right things right.

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Speaker 1: You know, when you're young and your teenagers, you always

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Speaker 1: want to veer off the beaten track, and they just

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Speaker 1: had a way of keeping you on the right track

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Speaker 1: and giving you positive messages. And even though we were

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Speaker 1: extremely poor, uh, you know, there was that poverty line

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Speaker 1: and then there was the line below poverty. We were

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Speaker 1: at right, you know, a couple of times we were homeless,

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Speaker 1: set out, you know, living from just place to place.

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Speaker 1: But when I look back on on growing up and

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Speaker 1: how we lived, h somehow my mom and my dad

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Speaker 1: always found a way to make a smile with a

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Speaker 1: song or or do something just to take your mind

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Speaker 1: off the pain that you was really going through. So

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Speaker 1: I give them a lot of credit for just I

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Speaker 1: don't know how they navigated us, you know, through the

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Speaker 1: path that we were we were on at that time,

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Speaker 1: but somehow they they did it and made sure that

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Speaker 1: you know, I got through. Asaiah, you mentioned you have

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Speaker 1: nine brothers. It's nine of you guys. You're the youngest

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Speaker 1: of the nine. So how would your parents were your parents?

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Speaker 1: Like I'm talking about the difference between I think the

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Speaker 1: thing if you grew up in the sixties and early seventies,

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Speaker 1: and I know what strict back then meant as opposed

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Speaker 1: to what strict is now. There are two different types

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Speaker 1: of strict. There are strict in the sixties and seventies

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Speaker 1: and they're strict in the twenty first century. So those

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Speaker 1: are different. So explain to our listeners if you were

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Speaker 1: what strict meant to you growing up back then, it

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Speaker 1: then really just there was a there was a respect

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Speaker 1: for your elders that you always had to give us. Yes,

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Speaker 1: it was always mister and missus, yes sir, no, sir, yes, ma'am, no, ma'am.

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Speaker 1: It was never hey, beatty, how you doing? And and

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Speaker 1: just that that that that type of respect in terms

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Speaker 1: of dignity for yourself, dignity for your fellow man or

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Speaker 1: person that you were dealing with. That's what I mean

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Speaker 1: by by strict and in terms of being disciplined. You know,

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Speaker 1: the way child rearing was back then and the way

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Speaker 1: it is now a two totally different things. I mean,

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Speaker 1: you're going to jail now for what they did back then. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: my my mom right now she would not be looked at, uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, and and loving eyes right out and nowadays

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Speaker 1: as she was back then, right, you know, I would

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Speaker 1: I would say, you know, the way the way things

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Speaker 1: were and the way we had to come through to survive.

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Speaker 1: Has she not been able to corral us all in

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Speaker 1: and keep us focused on education, keep us focused on

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Speaker 1: doing the right things. And even though she only had

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Speaker 1: a third grade education herself, she always made sure that

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Speaker 1: somehow we we had a meal. Uh, and you know,

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Speaker 1: sometimes we would have to beg and I remember one

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Speaker 1: time we were standing in uh, the food line, and

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Speaker 1: you know you when you're standing in the back, then

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Speaker 1: you just called it the soup line. Okay, we're standing

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Speaker 1: in the soup line, and we had just got out

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Speaker 1: of school. And so at four o'clock we're standing in

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Speaker 1: the soup line and kids still coming from school. And

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Speaker 1: I never forget, this little boy walked by and he

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Speaker 1: was teasing me, and I tried to get out of

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Speaker 1: line and get him. Man, my mother snatched me so hard,

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Speaker 1: so hard to put me back in line, because you know,

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Speaker 1: if you lose your place in line, you gotta go

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Speaker 1: all the way back, went to the back. Yeah, so,

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Speaker 1: and I never forget she snatched me so hard. But

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Speaker 1: you know when she snatched me, you know how they

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Speaker 1: snatched you by your ear, they pull you back in Yes, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: so but you mentioned it was yes, sir, no sir, yes, ma'am. No, ma'am.

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Speaker 1: That just wasn't for your your parents. That was for

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Speaker 1: anybody age that you had to show the ultimate respect towards. Yes,

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Speaker 1: I had to show the ultimate respect for him. And

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Speaker 1: then when the older person that's older than you, yes,

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Speaker 1: coming down the street, you had to stop, let them

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Speaker 1: walk by, and and and and keep going and and

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Speaker 1: I grew up in some I grew up in the

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Speaker 1: roughest neighborhood on the West Side of Chicago that you

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Speaker 1: can imagine. But that type of respect for your elders

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Speaker 1: and people who were older than you, that was always there,

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Speaker 1: and to a certain extent, that's still there a little

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Speaker 1: bit today. I think you're growing up West side of Chicago.

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Speaker 1: What did you Obviously that's not I mean, how your

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Speaker 1: parents were you Like, I want something better than this.

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Speaker 1: Obviously you had to imagine that there was something better

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Speaker 1: than this that on the West side of Chicago. So

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Speaker 1: how did your upbringing help you? Like I can get

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Speaker 1: I need to get up out of here, and I

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Speaker 1: can get out here. You know, That's what sports kicked in.

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Speaker 1: So being being involved in sport allowed me to be

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Speaker 1: on a travel team. Okay, you can go outside of

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Speaker 1: your your your four block radius that we all were

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Speaker 1: confined to. Uh you would you would travel outside of that,

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Speaker 1: you know, with your team and you would get to

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Speaker 1: see other communities. Right. Not only would you get to

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Speaker 1: see other communities, you would meet other people and you

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Speaker 1: would see that there's a different way of life other

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Speaker 1: than what you saw on television. There was a different

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Speaker 1: way of life because you saw it on television, but

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Speaker 1: you didn't know that it was maybe five miles away

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Speaker 1: from you, right, And and that that allowed you to think,

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Speaker 1: think bigger, That allowed you to aspire to be more.

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Speaker 1: But a lot of that, really, you know, it comes

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Speaker 1: back to, you know, the messages that's being reverberated in

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Speaker 1: your household about Hey, you know this isn't the last

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Speaker 1: stop and the only way we were we would take.

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Speaker 1: The only way you're going to get out of here

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Speaker 1: is not with this basketball, but with these books. Right.

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Speaker 1: Without these books, you can't play with this basketball, right,

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Speaker 1: because they went hand in hand. And Shannon, you remember

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Speaker 1: when we were growing up, Hey, the bad guys couldn't

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Speaker 1: be on the team, right, you know what I mean?

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Speaker 1: And one no such thing as oh he can give

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Speaker 1: me twenty points and Tim rebounds a bad guy. But

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Speaker 1: we're put up with it. No, no, no, no, no no,

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Speaker 1: the bad guys. You know, in terms of your personality,

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Speaker 1: your personhood as a teammate, can you can you be

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Speaker 1: with this group? But if you were a bad person, right,

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Speaker 1: you got kicked off the team and they didn't care

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Speaker 1: how many points and rebounds you can get. Nowadays, the

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Speaker 1: bad guy can be on the team, right, which is

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Speaker 1: which is different than the way we grow up. So

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Speaker 1: did you really, okay, you're good at basketball, you're on

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Speaker 1: the traveling team. Did you feel that this was going

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Speaker 1: to be your opportunity, this was going to be your

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Speaker 1: way out. This was a way that Isaiah was going

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Speaker 1: to take care of his family and his and the

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Speaker 1: family that he grew up with. No, So, when you know,

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Speaker 1: the narrative around us as as professional basketball players is

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Speaker 1: that we grew up wanting to be NBA players. Know,

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Speaker 1: the NFL was on television, but NBA one no television,

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Speaker 1: it was not no. So, so when I was growing up,

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Speaker 1: it was never like, oh, the NBA dream, You're gonna

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Speaker 1: make all this money, because there were that wasn't there

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Speaker 1: for us, even though you knew it was an NBA.

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Speaker 1: It wasn't like, you know, the NFL. And so all

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Speaker 1: my goals were geared towards law school, trying to go

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Speaker 1: to law school, trying to be a lawyer, come back

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Speaker 1: to the community, you know, be a criminal defense lawyer helped,

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Speaker 1: you know, help my community. That that's where everything was

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Speaker 1: geared towards Now then, you know, as basketball started to

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Speaker 1: get more popular and I was looked at as a

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Speaker 1: good basketball player, you know, then you got scholarships and

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Speaker 1: everything else. But that wasn't the childhood dream because it

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Speaker 1: wasn't on television. As a matter, I dream more about

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Speaker 1: playing football than because, as you mentioned, only the game

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Speaker 1: of only the game of the week was live, and

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Speaker 1: even the NBA Finals, Magic Johnson's NBA first year in

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Speaker 1: the championship that was tape delayed. People say, oh, basketball

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Speaker 1: has been this, this this behem of all the years. No,

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Speaker 1: it wasn't finals were tape delayed. They were played and

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Speaker 1: then you you already knew who won, but you watched

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Speaker 1: it anyway because you wanted to see the game exactly exactly.

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Speaker 1: You know, that behemoth has always been an NFL, yes,

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Speaker 1: and and that the NFL has, uh, you know, in

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Speaker 1: spite even though we played basketball, and that's why you

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Speaker 1: see a lot of basketball players now still, you know,

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Speaker 1: gravitate to football because football, to me, it is the

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Speaker 1: sport in terms of okay, everything is real, you know,

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Speaker 1: and everything's about you know, being in your position, working

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Speaker 1: together as a team. And if you don't do your

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Speaker 1: job as a left ta tackle or right tackle, or

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Speaker 1: a guard or a sinner. Somebody getting hurt, right, somebody

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Speaker 1: getting right. So you know, if if we don't do

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Speaker 1: all jobs on the basketball court, okay, you there may

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Speaker 1: be a turnover somebody, you know, somebody gets scored on.

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Speaker 1: But but in football, really, if that person doesn't do

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Speaker 1: his job, somebody is going to get hurt. So the

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Speaker 1: trust that you that you build on the football team

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Speaker 1: that you played with as teammates, and that that's it.

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Speaker 1: That's different than than you know, what you have on

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Speaker 1: the basketball team. And that's why I always gravitated if

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Speaker 1: you look at all my teams that are played on

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Speaker 1: and that I was captain of, we always played with

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Speaker 1: a football mentality, right, you know the bad boys at

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Speaker 1: Detroit Pistons we were wearing football jerseys. Ers, yeah, all that.

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Speaker 1: That's that's what we brought a football mentality the basketball.

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Speaker 1: And people think it was a physicality, but it wasn't

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Speaker 1: a physicality. It was a mentality in terms of trust,

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Speaker 1: people coming together, taking care of each other and looking

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Speaker 1: out for each other. So you're growing up your underside soul.

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Speaker 1: Who are some of when you're growing up? Who are

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Speaker 1: some of the NBA stars that you like. Okay, I

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Speaker 1: kind of like him. I like his game, I can

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Speaker 1: because boy's not a whole at all. But you heard

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Speaker 1: about guys that anybody that you wanted to be like,

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Speaker 1: you idolized. They were all in my neighborhood and my

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Speaker 1: older brothers. And again, you gotta remember, it wasn't on television, right,

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Speaker 1: so we we you know, up until I guess, I

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Speaker 1: guess nineteen eighty. I was nineteen eighty, nineteen seventy nine,

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Speaker 1: that's when the NBA started getting on television. But I

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Speaker 1: was a senior, you know, senior freshman in high school

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Speaker 1: right within you're a freshman in college, right, So growing

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Speaker 1: up I always wanted to be like guys in the neighborhood.

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Speaker 1: You always dated somebody's move. My older brother always tried

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Speaker 1: to imitate him, still a lot of his moves. And

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Speaker 1: then there was a guy out of name a Sam Puckett,

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Speaker 1: who actually was my brother's rival at another school. Okay,

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Speaker 1: I tried to imitate some of his game too. So

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Speaker 1: coming obviously coming from Chicago, I mean normally, when you

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Speaker 1: hear about basketball players, you hear about Chicago, you hear

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Speaker 1: about New York, you hear about the big cities. So

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Speaker 1: you go to Indiana. What was the thought process of

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Speaker 1: going to Indiana. I'm sure you had heard some of

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Speaker 1: the stories about Coach Knight. And then it's reported that

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Speaker 1: your brother and Coach Night get into it when he

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Speaker 1: comes to recruit you. Well, all that's true. And by

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Speaker 1: the way, here I'm scratching. That's my dog behind me,

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Speaker 1: So I saw I saw it walk in. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: that most people probably think I got a big dog.

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Speaker 1: But that little fellow he tough. Now. But you know,

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Speaker 1: I didn't make the decision to go to Indiana. That

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Speaker 1: was made by my mom. And and again back then,

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Speaker 1: remember remember you your mom and your dad, they they

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Speaker 1: had to hammer, right, I never forget. You know, my mom,

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Speaker 1: you know, called the press conference and she said, my

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Speaker 1: son has made his decision. He decided to go to

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Speaker 1: Indiana University and play for coach tonight. And I was

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Speaker 1: like that and and yeah, here and my brother they

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Speaker 1: got into it, and they got into it. They got

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Speaker 1: into a you know, a pretty big fight. And you

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Speaker 1: know the reason why. What was it about? Well, coach

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Speaker 1: and I was recruiting me to come to Indiana in Bloomington, Indiana, right,

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Speaker 1: and and the next town over from Bloomington was Martinsville, Indiana. Okay,

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Speaker 1: plan started at her. Plan is is, you know, as

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Speaker 1: a big presence in the state of Indiana, right, And

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Speaker 1: and so my brother, you know, uh he asked Coach Tonight.

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Speaker 1: He said, uh, well, you know when juniors down there,

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Speaker 1: because that's what they called me in the family. They said,

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Speaker 1: when junior's down there, if if something was to go

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Speaker 1: down with the clan, who's gonna take care of him?

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Speaker 1: And you know, I thought it was I thought it

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Speaker 1: was kind of a funny ass. So Coach Knight said, well,

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Speaker 1: if we're winning, they will. We just kind of laughed

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Speaker 1: it off, right. A brother didn't think that was funny, right,

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Speaker 1: So so he's like, oh, you know, you know, he

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Speaker 1: went into his thing and you know, and so they

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Speaker 1: got into, you know, a little back and forth, and

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Speaker 1: then my brother said, well, hey, we can take this outside.

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Speaker 1: And Coach Knight stood up, took his jacket off, rolled

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Speaker 1: up his sleeve. It's like, yeah, we could take this outside.

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Speaker 1: And you know, everybody in the house we were panicking,

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Speaker 1: Oh no, no, you know our households all right, Oh no, no, no, no,

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Speaker 1: Now now Shannon, you know, let me let me paint

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Speaker 1: the scene. So we at that time we got no lights.

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Speaker 1: We always poor, so all our meetings have to be

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Speaker 1: in the in the daytime, right right. So it's about

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Speaker 1: four o'clock and you know, again we got you know,

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Speaker 1: it's actually it was a big roach crawling behind Coach

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Speaker 1: Knight's head, oh man, you know, and it was like

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Speaker 1: we were sitting there like cool away, cool away, you know,

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Speaker 1: they don't come out, do you have company? I feel

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Speaker 1: right right and sorry by my dog. But anyway, so

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Speaker 1: now it's getting to be a little dusk and I remember,

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Speaker 1: you know, so the the scuffle you know, started happening,

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Speaker 1: not a scuffle, but the back and forth. Coach and

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Speaker 1: I took off his jacket and we was all no, no, no, no,

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Speaker 1: And you know it's that one person in the room

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Speaker 1: who ain't moving, ain't doing nothing right with my mom.

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Speaker 1: My mom was looking at him like shaking her head,

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Speaker 1: and I was like, oh, she liked him. And so

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Speaker 1: that's that's how I went down and my mom and

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Speaker 1: my mom and my sister. You know, he he came in,

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Speaker 1: he said, I'm off of your son. Three things. Hey,

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Speaker 1: he's gonna graduate from college. D he's going to be

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Speaker 1: a gentleman and see everything that I know about basketball,

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Speaker 1: I'm a teacher. And that was it. I said at

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Speaker 1: the time that you went to college, were your father alive?

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Speaker 1: My father was alive. Now. The interesting thing about my father,

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Speaker 1: my mother and my father, and and again, you know,

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Speaker 1: people who were coming up in the sixties, you would notice,

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Speaker 1: you know. So we had to go on welfare. So

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Speaker 1: when you go on welfare, I mean the US government

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Speaker 1: was really breaking up your family because the man couldn't

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Speaker 1: be inside the household, right And so my father had

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Speaker 1: to leave so we can get on welfare, get the

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Speaker 1: welfare check. And then they started having titchen and everything else.

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Speaker 1: But my mom my dad, when he looked at Indiana,

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Speaker 1: he did not like me playing basketball. Okay, my father

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Speaker 1: didn't like nothing about entertainment. My father was everything about books, learning,

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Speaker 1: getting educated, because this is the way you're going to

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Speaker 1: make it in this world, right done. If you think

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Speaker 1: you're gonna make it in this world bouncing a basketball,

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Speaker 1: that's not how you're going to make it. You're not

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Speaker 1: gonna be you know. And and his beliefs was, you know, entertainment,

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Speaker 1: you know, wasn't wasn't the wasn't the door or the

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Speaker 1: avenue for you to make it. It was the education

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Speaker 1: and those were his beliefs. I think the reason why

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Speaker 1: I asked you that because I don't know how many

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Speaker 1: people know this, but we know this because we come

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Speaker 1: from black families. The older brother took on the role

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Speaker 1: as the father if the father wasn't in the house.

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Speaker 1: And because you said your brother, your older brother, had

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Speaker 1: this conversation that led me know, okay, when somebody when

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Speaker 1: the father was absterlent, he's the man of the house.

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Speaker 1: He took all that responsibility. Yes he did. And and

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Speaker 1: they and even though and it's well documented, you know,

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Speaker 1: my my brothers after after the Vietnam War, everybody fell

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Speaker 1: into you know, heroin and cocaine, and my brothers, you know,

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Speaker 1: a couple of them died, you know, one of them

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Speaker 1: had HIV and you know, so it was it was

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Speaker 1: a very difficult time during that period of time. But

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Speaker 1: the messages that they were always giving me or their

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Speaker 1: hard times was hey, don't don't do what we're doing right,

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Speaker 1: can do something else. And Shannon, I never forget you know, uh,

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Speaker 1: now you got me going down memory lane because when

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Speaker 1: we started, when we were talking about my brothers. You know,

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Speaker 1: everybody got to hand me down, right. Oh? Yes, so

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Speaker 1: me being the youngest, right, oh you got you got

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Speaker 1: three four deep, hand me down three four deep. But

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Speaker 1: I couldn't think my brother's So you know who's clothes?

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Speaker 1: I could fit sister's clothes. I got my sister's clothes.

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Speaker 1: So you're butting up on the left side too, wearing

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Speaker 1: I wearing a jeans and you know we knew Mando

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Speaker 1: was a girl jeans. So I'm having the fire on

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Speaker 1: people in elementary and junior high because they talk about

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Speaker 1: I'm wearing girl jeans. So I got the fire on them.

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Speaker 1: I said, I got no choice. That's how I got

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Speaker 1: good with my hands. That's how I was like, Okay,

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Speaker 1: well go on graduation day. I had on my sister's

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Speaker 1: black pattern leather boots, and I had on her flowered

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Speaker 1: red blows with a hood on the back. And I

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Speaker 1: had on her privateence Saint Mao blazer. That was my

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Speaker 1: graduation outfit in eighth grade. So you go to you

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Speaker 1: go to Indiana. What was it like playing for Coach Night?

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Speaker 1: I mean, we hear all these stories, but I've never

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Speaker 1: taught to anyone that I played for Coach Night. You

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Speaker 1: hear these stories about guys that played for him, but

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Speaker 1: I've never actually talked to someone that actually played for

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Speaker 1: Coach Night. So what's that like. So the stories that

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Speaker 1: you that we all heard about him being a strong disciplinarian,

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Speaker 1: I was waiting for that. But what I found was

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Speaker 1: that in our style of play, the way we played,

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Speaker 1: there was great freedom. But with that great freedom came

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Speaker 1: a great responsibility. So, Shannon, we never had an under

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Speaker 1: out of bounds play. We never had a play. There

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Speaker 1: was no We never came down and said, hey, twenty

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Speaker 1: two out. You know, we never It was it was

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Speaker 1: all about reading and reacting, knowing your teammate, understanding your teammate,

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Speaker 1: and making the right decisions every single time. So we

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Speaker 1: the way we played it was it was very free flowing,

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Speaker 1: and it was hard to scout because he believed just

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Speaker 1: like I believe that pattern offense. And you notice from football,

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Speaker 1: when I can scout your pattern and and I understand

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Speaker 1: your tendencies, then as a defensive player, I got a

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Speaker 1: good chance of stopping you right. But but if if

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Speaker 1: if I don't if and in basketball, what he gave

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Speaker 1: us his ability to always go left or right, and

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Speaker 1: you had to make the right decision. Now he would

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Speaker 1: come back and then we would watch it on film.

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Speaker 1: And if you went left and it was the wrong decision,

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Speaker 1: it was it was always hell to pay taking the

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Speaker 1: wrong decision. Well, if he getting in the game, what

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Speaker 1: was practice like? Because practice got because for someone to

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Speaker 1: have back Cann trusting you in the game, you the

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Speaker 1: practices have to be held Azaia. The practice were intense,

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Speaker 1: so the intensity and the concentration uh in the energy

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Speaker 1: that you had to bring the practice every single day.

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Speaker 1: You know, you you got taught to always be at

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Speaker 1: your maximum, right, got taught to always think at your maximum,

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Speaker 1: and you got taught to always concentrate at your maximum.

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Speaker 1: There was there was never let down, and when there

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Speaker 1: was a let down, again that was held to pay

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Speaker 1: for a let down. So being able to sustain that

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Speaker 1: level of intensity, that level of concentration, that level of energy,

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Speaker 1: whenever you played against your opponent, it was just a

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Speaker 1: matter of time before he wore down. And and being

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Speaker 1: a smaller player, I have to depend on the bigger

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Speaker 1: player to make a mistake, right, because if you're bigger, faster, stronger,

400
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Speaker 1: then in sports athletically you're gonna beat your opponent nine

401
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Speaker 1: times out of ten. Right, the only way that smaller

402
00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:16,440
Speaker 1: player has an opportunity to win is when you make

403
00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:20,760
Speaker 1: a mistake, and now I can capitalize on your mistakes. Right,

404
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Speaker 1: So what I pride in my cell phone is mentally

405
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Speaker 1: wearing people down. So if it's a two hour game,

406
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Speaker 1: I'm gonna mentally exhaust you for two hours, and some

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00:24:35,240 --> 00:24:39,479
Speaker 1: people will get mentally exhausted. Shit in fifteen minutes. Excuse me,

408
00:24:40,800 --> 00:24:43,480
Speaker 1: get exhausted in fifteen minutes. So I may get exhausted

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Speaker 1: in a half hour. And I'm talking, I'm not talking physically.

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Speaker 1: But you know, shining from from playing football, that the

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00:24:50,640 --> 00:24:54,600
Speaker 1: level of concentration that you get to run that pattern

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Speaker 1: every single time, run it with intensity, run it with concentration,

413
00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:02,720
Speaker 1: run it with speed, and you may only get thrown too,

414
00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:06,040
Speaker 1: maybe six times or four times that game because you

415
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Speaker 1: can run that route with intensity and speed and concentration

416
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Speaker 1: every single time, because I gotta think I'm getting the ball.

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Speaker 1: But see the difference between basketball and football, izeah, is

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Speaker 1: that in football, all I have to do is worry

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Speaker 1: about what I need to do offensively. You also got

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00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:22,960
Speaker 1: to worry about defensively. You got to worry about the

421
00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:25,960
Speaker 1: back pick. You got to worry about all this other stuff. Okay, yes,

422
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Speaker 1: I'm running the offense. I'm in charging the offense. But

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00:25:28,520 --> 00:25:31,320
Speaker 1: I also got to make sure that Rodman and Salad

424
00:25:31,480 --> 00:25:35,399
Speaker 1: and Mahorne and Lambert, all these guys here come to here,

425
00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:37,600
Speaker 1: come to back pick, here, come to down screen. So

426
00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:40,920
Speaker 1: you gotta call out all those signals. Also, yeah, and

427
00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:44,439
Speaker 1: this is and this is where, this is where. Now

428
00:25:44,640 --> 00:25:49,880
Speaker 1: everything that you just described, now when you and my opponent, right,

429
00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:53,600
Speaker 1: I am gonna make you hit every one of those

430
00:25:53,640 --> 00:26:01,880
Speaker 1: screens every play for the eight minutes. Now, right, you're

431
00:26:01,920 --> 00:26:05,400
Speaker 1: gonna that's what we call tap tap, Right, You're gonna

432
00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:11,920
Speaker 1: get tapped offensively in defensively every time you move right,

433
00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:16,200
Speaker 1: and and that frustrates players right who wants to get

434
00:26:16,200 --> 00:26:18,920
Speaker 1: a back pick? Right, and then you're gonna get it.

435
00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:22,080
Speaker 1: Then you're gonna get another screen. Then you get another screen,

436
00:26:22,600 --> 00:26:25,200
Speaker 1: and then offensively when you got the ball, when you're

437
00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:28,000
Speaker 1: going through the lane, Okay, we're not gonna let you run.

438
00:26:28,560 --> 00:26:30,480
Speaker 1: We're not gonna let you run your route the way

439
00:26:30,520 --> 00:26:32,680
Speaker 1: you want to run your rope. All right, you may

440
00:26:32,720 --> 00:26:34,840
Speaker 1: want to run it down and out now, you. You

441
00:26:34,920 --> 00:26:37,040
Speaker 1: ain't gonna everybody come through the land. They're gonna catch

442
00:26:37,040 --> 00:26:42,160
Speaker 1: a hip from the horn and Lamb Bear Ronnie Lott

443
00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:47,320
Speaker 1: is in it. So so if you want to go

444
00:26:47,359 --> 00:26:51,440
Speaker 1: over that middle, hey, go ahead. I feel I gotta

445
00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:53,440
Speaker 1: be honest with you. The first time that I saw

446
00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:56,320
Speaker 1: saw you, I was watching the eighty one that the

447
00:26:56,359 --> 00:26:59,000
Speaker 1: final four, and you guys will play in Carolina. So

448
00:26:59,080 --> 00:27:01,840
Speaker 1: I was a Carolina So I kind of wanted Carolina,

449
00:27:01,840 --> 00:27:03,600
Speaker 1: and I thought they were gonna win because they had

450
00:27:03,600 --> 00:27:05,879
Speaker 1: a really good team that Jimmy Black had Al Wood,

451
00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:08,280
Speaker 1: they had James Worthy, and I was like, they ain't

452
00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:11,200
Speaker 1: got nobody but this little guy. They kn't beat damn

453
00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:17,280
Speaker 1: a k beat Carolina. May y'all blew the doors off them. Yeah,

454
00:27:17,320 --> 00:27:19,280
Speaker 1: we I think we ended up beating them by U

455
00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:24,439
Speaker 1: thirteen points. Yeah, but if I'm not mistaken, that was

456
00:27:24,520 --> 00:27:28,520
Speaker 1: also I think the day that day, Uh, there was

457
00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:33,120
Speaker 1: an attempt of assassination on President Raygan. Do you remember that? Yeah?

458
00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:36,080
Speaker 1: I do. We We were we were actually in uh

459
00:27:36,280 --> 00:27:40,200
Speaker 1: in our hotel room. We were watching all my children

460
00:27:41,920 --> 00:27:45,680
Speaker 1: and uh and I never forget, you know, we all

461
00:27:45,720 --> 00:27:48,680
Speaker 1: sitting around and we're watching you know, the stories of

462
00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:50,280
Speaker 1: the soap proper at that time that what they called

463
00:27:50,320 --> 00:27:51,960
Speaker 1: him the stories. That's what they called him, the story.

464
00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:56,199
Speaker 1: And I never forget that. They said, you know, we

465
00:27:56,280 --> 00:27:59,879
Speaker 1: interrupt this program and Steve Ridgley, you know, he was

466
00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:05,000
Speaker 1: always sarcastic and everything he goes, not again the President's

467
00:28:05,040 --> 00:28:09,520
Speaker 1: been shot and and they came on and said, hey,

468
00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:12,800
Speaker 1: you know, we interrupted this program and you know President's

469
00:28:12,840 --> 00:28:17,240
Speaker 1: been shot and and Ridgley was like, wow, I knew,

470
00:28:17,280 --> 00:28:19,720
Speaker 1: and and and all of us at that time was

471
00:28:19,800 --> 00:28:24,000
Speaker 1: just like, you know, in a state of shock watching

472
00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:27,360
Speaker 1: what we what we were seeing, and we we didn't

473
00:28:27,400 --> 00:28:30,480
Speaker 1: at that time, it didn't dawn on us that the

474
00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:35,320
Speaker 1: game was even potentially being thought about being canceled. And

475
00:28:35,359 --> 00:28:37,639
Speaker 1: this is the beauty of Coach Night. Coach Night was

476
00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:42,120
Speaker 1: able to keep us focused and while all the talk

477
00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:44,880
Speaker 1: was going on about where the should the game be played,

478
00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:49,320
Speaker 1: should the game not be played, we were always singularly

479
00:28:49,360 --> 00:28:52,280
Speaker 1: focused on the game is getting played, It's getting played

480
00:28:52,280 --> 00:28:54,440
Speaker 1: at this time, and this is what we have to do.

481
00:28:55,000 --> 00:28:59,360
Speaker 1: That was our only focus. So going into the game,

482
00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:04,320
Speaker 1: League two powerhouses UH Indiana had won the seventy sixth

483
00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:07,360
Speaker 1: National Championship game that was the undefeated season. That was

484
00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:09,400
Speaker 1: the last time a team had gone through gone through

485
00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:13,880
Speaker 1: a season undefeated. Carolina is a blue belooved powerhouse going

486
00:29:13,920 --> 00:29:17,280
Speaker 1: into the game. What's your thought process? So my thought

487
00:29:17,280 --> 00:29:20,040
Speaker 1: process was that all those players you just named, so

488
00:29:20,240 --> 00:29:24,080
Speaker 1: they had James Worthy, Sam Perkins, I was on the

489
00:29:24,160 --> 00:29:27,360
Speaker 1: eighty Olympic team with our would that got boycotted? So

490
00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:30,280
Speaker 1: their back line was the best back line in basketball?

491
00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:35,560
Speaker 1: How would James Worthy? Uh, Sam Perkins and and I

492
00:29:35,800 --> 00:29:38,880
Speaker 1: and and I knew that, Okay, we were good enough

493
00:29:38,920 --> 00:29:43,600
Speaker 1: basketball team defensively, but talent wise, they just had more

494
00:29:43,600 --> 00:29:48,040
Speaker 1: talent than we did. Right, So my my game plan

495
00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:51,280
Speaker 1: was to just try to keep it close. And I

496
00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:56,840
Speaker 1: understood Dean Smith's substitution pattern, you know, he he he

497
00:29:56,840 --> 00:30:00,240
Speaker 1: would they would platoon. They they had five guys in

498
00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:05,760
Speaker 1: and out. And so when he took Worthy and our

499
00:30:05,840 --> 00:30:12,720
Speaker 1: would out, I was like, okay, when the second team

500
00:30:12,760 --> 00:30:16,240
Speaker 1: came in, okay, yeah, now we can catch up. Because

501
00:30:16,240 --> 00:30:19,080
Speaker 1: if you remember, we were down early in the game, yes,

502
00:30:19,520 --> 00:30:21,640
Speaker 1: and and it, and it looked like they was going

503
00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:24,000
Speaker 1: to blow us out. And then when they made that

504
00:30:24,120 --> 00:30:28,800
Speaker 1: substitution and we stayed in, that's when we came back

505
00:30:29,120 --> 00:30:31,440
Speaker 1: and we was able to you know, get it, get

506
00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:33,920
Speaker 1: it close at the half. We were coming out the

507
00:30:33,960 --> 00:30:37,000
Speaker 1: third quarter that we had to jump on a quick

508
00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:40,680
Speaker 1: I think I made two steals in the row that

509
00:30:40,840 --> 00:30:43,760
Speaker 1: got us up, and once we got up defensively, I

510
00:30:43,800 --> 00:30:46,320
Speaker 1: just thought they would have a hard time because at

511
00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:49,560
Speaker 1: that time I thought, well, well, history says we were

512
00:30:50,440 --> 00:30:52,239
Speaker 1: in the tournament. I don't know if there's been a

513
00:30:52,280 --> 00:30:56,680
Speaker 1: team as dominant and the tourminant as we were that year,

514
00:30:57,280 --> 00:31:00,920
Speaker 1: because every single game we won by double digits. And

515
00:31:01,280 --> 00:31:04,360
Speaker 1: actually Carolina was the closest game we had and we

516
00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:09,600
Speaker 1: beat them by thirteen. So we did you know going

517
00:31:09,680 --> 00:31:12,360
Speaker 1: into the game, what was the determining factor of you

518
00:31:12,520 --> 00:31:16,760
Speaker 1: leaving Indiana after your sophomore season? Did you know going

519
00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:18,880
Speaker 1: into the game when losing drawer, I'm out of here.

520
00:31:19,560 --> 00:31:26,760
Speaker 1: I had no money. We came back from Hawaii from

521
00:31:26,800 --> 00:31:31,440
Speaker 1: the Christmas tournament, okay, and I came back and there

522
00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:33,600
Speaker 1: were no lights in my house. Now this is dead

523
00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:37,160
Speaker 1: a winner. No lights, you know, the gas turned off.

524
00:31:37,880 --> 00:31:41,800
Speaker 1: My family, you know, was all in different places, and

525
00:31:41,840 --> 00:31:44,160
Speaker 1: I didn't know where anybody was because we didn't have

526
00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:47,280
Speaker 1: a phone. You know, you couldn't call and find out, right,

527
00:31:47,680 --> 00:31:50,440
Speaker 1: and I never forget, just trying to figure out where

528
00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:53,800
Speaker 1: to go. And lucky enough for me, my girlfriend who's

529
00:31:53,840 --> 00:31:57,400
Speaker 1: my wife now, she had dropped me off at the

530
00:31:57,480 --> 00:32:00,480
Speaker 1: house because she had a car. Of course I did,

531
00:32:02,120 --> 00:32:04,880
Speaker 1: and she drove off and for some reason she turned

532
00:32:04,920 --> 00:32:08,040
Speaker 1: around and came back. And has she not come back?

533
00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:11,120
Speaker 1: You know, I'd probably end up, you know, walking to

534
00:32:11,280 --> 00:32:13,400
Speaker 1: my aunt's house and trying to find a place where

535
00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:17,640
Speaker 1: everybody was. But you know, we would. We was extremely poor.

536
00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:20,360
Speaker 1: And when they when they said, hey, man, you can

537
00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:23,440
Speaker 1: make some money by going to the NBA, and I said,

538
00:32:23,520 --> 00:32:29,360
Speaker 1: just playing basketball. I was like, for real, say yeah,

539
00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:31,600
Speaker 1: all you gotta do is declare hardship. I said, well,

540
00:32:31,600 --> 00:32:37,000
Speaker 1: I'm hardship. It's really hard over her while. Yeah, so

541
00:32:38,520 --> 00:32:46,200
Speaker 1: so we talk about Chicago basketball players, yourself, A D. D. Wade,

542
00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:51,520
Speaker 1: d Rolls, Antoine Walker, more Re, Cheat, Tim Hardaway, Senior,

543
00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:56,360
Speaker 1: George Mike and Mark wil Terry Cummins. Hey, y'all got

544
00:32:56,400 --> 00:32:58,360
Speaker 1: a back. Y'all got a man, little little stick out there,

545
00:32:58,400 --> 00:33:04,400
Speaker 1: I said, he we we we've done all right, we

546
00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:08,200
Speaker 1: we we we got I'll tell you my my so,

547
00:33:08,360 --> 00:33:12,800
Speaker 1: my my high school graduating class. These are the These

548
00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:19,600
Speaker 1: are the NBA players in NBA champions Okay, myself, Mark Acquire,

549
00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:28,160
Speaker 1: Doc Rivers, Craig Hodges, Uh, Daryl Walker, and I'm miss

550
00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:36,040
Speaker 1: I'm missing I'm missing one more. Oh, I'm missing one more.

551
00:33:36,080 --> 00:33:39,400
Speaker 1: But we had six out of my high school class

552
00:33:39,400 --> 00:33:43,480
Speaker 1: that went on to win NBA championships. So you and

553
00:33:43,520 --> 00:33:47,040
Speaker 1: Mark guy with the same year, we know he was

554
00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:53,800
Speaker 1: a year ahead of me. Nine. Oh, I'm sorry, Eddie Johnson. Okay, yes,

555
00:33:54,760 --> 00:33:59,960
Speaker 1: so you declare you go? I think if I'm not mistaken,

556
00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:02,320
Speaker 1: Mark Alguire was the first pick in your draft, right

557
00:34:03,080 --> 00:34:06,720
Speaker 1: number two. I was number two. So did it matter?

558
00:34:07,240 --> 00:34:10,279
Speaker 1: I mean, because now you know guys, guys either yeah,

559
00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:12,160
Speaker 1: I would end up matter as long as I get drafted.

560
00:34:12,280 --> 00:34:14,840
Speaker 1: But guys deep down really want to go to Team

561
00:34:15,120 --> 00:34:18,239
Speaker 1: X or Team you know, Team why didn't really matter

562
00:34:18,280 --> 00:34:19,759
Speaker 1: where you were going to. You just like I'm going

563
00:34:19,800 --> 00:34:21,799
Speaker 1: to the bed. I'm gonna be getting a check once

564
00:34:21,840 --> 00:34:24,440
Speaker 1: a month, twice a month, however it's gonna be, but

565
00:34:24,440 --> 00:34:26,840
Speaker 1: I'm gonna have some money in my pocket. So I'm

566
00:34:26,880 --> 00:34:29,239
Speaker 1: a Midwest boy and I wanted to go back home

567
00:34:29,280 --> 00:34:33,439
Speaker 1: to Chicago. Right, and Mark Alguire and I both were

568
00:34:33,520 --> 00:34:37,719
Speaker 1: trying to you know, rig the draft. We both can

569
00:34:37,719 --> 00:34:40,640
Speaker 1: get to Chicago because Chicago had the fourth pick in

570
00:34:40,840 --> 00:34:44,760
Speaker 1: the sixth pick, okay, and we were trying to drop

571
00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:47,200
Speaker 1: all the way down to four and six. So every

572
00:34:47,239 --> 00:34:50,359
Speaker 1: interview we did, you know, with the teams that were

573
00:34:50,400 --> 00:34:57,440
Speaker 1: above us, right, and we just blew the interview. Nah,

574
00:34:57,480 --> 00:35:01,319
Speaker 1: you know, And I never forget when I when I

575
00:35:01,360 --> 00:35:05,560
Speaker 1: interviewed in Detroit, it was Jack McClosky and Will Robinson, okay,

576
00:35:05,800 --> 00:35:08,600
Speaker 1: and and Jack McCloskey. Uh, you know, every question that

577
00:35:08,640 --> 00:35:10,560
Speaker 1: he asked asked me, I would you know, I would

578
00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:13,080
Speaker 1: ask it wrong. And you know, I'm trying to you know,

579
00:35:13,080 --> 00:35:15,719
Speaker 1: I'm trying to drive. I'm trying to give people not

580
00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:18,359
Speaker 1: to like me. And I'll never forget. He looked over

581
00:35:18,400 --> 00:35:21,600
Speaker 1: at me, goes, I know what you're doing. I just

582
00:35:21,640 --> 00:35:24,640
Speaker 1: want you to know it ain't gonna work. Number two,

583
00:35:25,160 --> 00:35:33,440
Speaker 1: I'm taking you because the gigs up. So you you

584
00:35:33,440 --> 00:35:37,719
Speaker 1: you go, you go to Detroit, and so what are

585
00:35:37,760 --> 00:35:39,640
Speaker 1: you thinking, You're like, man, how are we gonna turn

586
00:35:39,680 --> 00:35:43,440
Speaker 1: this around? I mean Detroit? Uh, I mean because at

587
00:35:43,480 --> 00:35:46,560
Speaker 1: that time, basically the Eastern Conference really it was like

588
00:35:46,600 --> 00:35:48,680
Speaker 1: a free conference team, but it was really too. It

589
00:35:48,760 --> 00:35:51,600
Speaker 1: was the Sixers, it was the Celtics, and you're sprinkling

590
00:35:51,680 --> 00:35:53,719
Speaker 1: a little of the Bucks, but basically it was the

591
00:35:53,760 --> 00:35:56,120
Speaker 1: Sixers and the Celtics, and you knew that's what you

592
00:35:56,400 --> 00:36:01,279
Speaker 1: and they were young Celtics, they were young. Yeah. So

593
00:36:01,320 --> 00:36:06,720
Speaker 1: I never looked at I never looked at we couldn't

594
00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:10,560
Speaker 1: do it right. The question I asked myself is how

595
00:36:10,600 --> 00:36:12,800
Speaker 1: long would it take for us to do it? Okay?

596
00:36:13,200 --> 00:36:17,640
Speaker 1: And what did I have to learn? Because you know,

597
00:36:17,719 --> 00:36:20,520
Speaker 1: winning in high school is one thing, then winning in

598
00:36:20,600 --> 00:36:24,359
Speaker 1: colleges another. Coming into the NBA, there's there's always an

599
00:36:24,480 --> 00:36:28,000
Speaker 1: education occurred. Okay. What I had to do was I

600
00:36:28,040 --> 00:36:30,360
Speaker 1: had to go to school, and I really went to

601
00:36:30,400 --> 00:36:34,160
Speaker 1: the school of the Celtics and the Lakers. Fortunate enough

602
00:36:34,200 --> 00:36:39,960
Speaker 1: that I was friends with Magic Johnson, doctor Bus, Jerry West, Kareem.

603
00:36:40,200 --> 00:36:44,000
Speaker 1: All of them let me into their their inter sanctuary

604
00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:47,759
Speaker 1: in terms of how they win, how they lose, how

605
00:36:47,800 --> 00:36:53,240
Speaker 1: they prepare, what their tradition was all about, how organization works.

606
00:36:54,520 --> 00:36:57,319
Speaker 1: Because in Detroit we had we had none of that right.

607
00:36:57,760 --> 00:37:01,759
Speaker 1: And then fortunately enough for me, himl Car was in Boston,

608
00:37:02,960 --> 00:37:06,440
Speaker 1: mL and then Kevin McHale, who I played on the

609
00:37:06,440 --> 00:37:10,239
Speaker 1: PanAm team with, was friends with him. So when when

610
00:37:10,280 --> 00:37:13,840
Speaker 1: Boston in LA was competing, I was in one of

611
00:37:13,880 --> 00:37:18,520
Speaker 1: their locker rooms all the time taking notes, and I

612
00:37:18,719 --> 00:37:22,880
Speaker 1: was at every every finals game, just learning and educating

613
00:37:22,880 --> 00:37:26,280
Speaker 1: myself on how to win, how to be a champion,

614
00:37:26,920 --> 00:37:29,800
Speaker 1: and understanding what the pressure would be like in those

615
00:37:29,840 --> 00:37:33,319
Speaker 1: buildings because I knew at some point in time I

616
00:37:33,400 --> 00:37:36,759
Speaker 1: was going to come there and beat them, and that's

617
00:37:36,760 --> 00:37:42,520
Speaker 1: what I did. That's that's that's never happening. There's no

618
00:37:42,560 --> 00:37:46,239
Speaker 1: way a team will allow a person, a player from

619
00:37:46,239 --> 00:37:49,120
Speaker 1: the opposing team, regardless of who you then not allow

620
00:37:49,200 --> 00:37:52,080
Speaker 1: you the locker room. Now, literally they know, did they

621
00:37:52,120 --> 00:37:54,640
Speaker 1: know what you were doing? They just thought you would

622
00:37:54,640 --> 00:37:58,279
Speaker 1: be a friend of No, absolutely, they knew. I told him,

623
00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:01,600
Speaker 1: you know, And that's why I say I was fortunate.

624
00:38:02,480 --> 00:38:05,439
Speaker 1: I was fortunate that they they allowed me to come

625
00:38:05,480 --> 00:38:09,840
Speaker 1: in and learn. And this is where I give the

626
00:38:09,920 --> 00:38:13,080
Speaker 1: Lakers and the Celtics credit, because they were great champions.

627
00:38:14,480 --> 00:38:18,160
Speaker 1: Not only were they great champions, but they were great teachers.

628
00:38:18,719 --> 00:38:21,800
Speaker 1: They would teach you, you know, they would tell you,

629
00:38:21,800 --> 00:38:24,440
Speaker 1: you know what you did wrong, what you what you

630
00:38:24,520 --> 00:38:27,359
Speaker 1: need to do, you know, you know it was like

631
00:38:27,440 --> 00:38:30,160
Speaker 1: you know, it's like when Muhammad Ali was fighting, you know,

632
00:38:30,680 --> 00:38:33,160
Speaker 1: uh lea sphinx, you know, and he would grab them

633
00:38:33,200 --> 00:38:39,839
Speaker 1: you go, which, yeah, it's it's it's so. So they

634
00:38:39,840 --> 00:38:44,279
Speaker 1: were great teachers, they were great mentors and everything. If

635
00:38:44,320 --> 00:38:47,040
Speaker 1: you look back at the Detroit Pistons and all bad

636
00:38:47,080 --> 00:38:50,919
Speaker 1: Boys in terms of all trajectory, you can you can,

637
00:38:51,239 --> 00:38:55,719
Speaker 1: you can chronicle it. Everything that the Celtics and the

638
00:38:55,840 --> 00:39:02,480
Speaker 1: Lakers did, we emulated, we implement it and also acted.

639
00:39:03,400 --> 00:39:07,000
Speaker 1: Uh So they were great teachers. We were great students also.

640
00:39:08,040 --> 00:39:11,759
Speaker 1: So you mentioned when you came in, Okay, you come

641
00:39:11,760 --> 00:39:13,960
Speaker 1: in in eighty one Bird in a riding, you know,

642
00:39:14,040 --> 00:39:18,000
Speaker 1: seventy nine, and so they got a young dominant team

643
00:39:18,040 --> 00:39:21,920
Speaker 1: Bird Chale Parish. They had Nate Archibald. Then Nate Archibald

644
00:39:22,040 --> 00:39:24,040
Speaker 1: leave and they come in with Dennis Johnson and then

645
00:39:24,080 --> 00:39:26,839
Speaker 1: they bring it. You know, they have Bill Walton. They

646
00:39:26,880 --> 00:39:31,480
Speaker 1: just had a cast of characters. They're like did You're like,

647
00:39:31,680 --> 00:39:36,799
Speaker 1: when is this gonna happen? No? So so again, you

648
00:39:37,719 --> 00:39:43,680
Speaker 1: my training has always been you know, you know, mentation

649
00:39:43,960 --> 00:39:49,000
Speaker 1: the physical okay boys to one Okay, So I was

650
00:39:49,080 --> 00:39:52,200
Speaker 1: taught and trained how to take the physicality out of

651
00:39:52,200 --> 00:39:57,520
Speaker 1: a game. Okay, Oh so, so people who are bigger, stronger, faster,

652
00:39:57,760 --> 00:40:01,440
Speaker 1: jump higher than you or black with the genetic gene,

653
00:40:02,200 --> 00:40:04,880
Speaker 1: I'm going to eliminate all of that. And now I'm

654
00:40:04,880 --> 00:40:09,480
Speaker 1: gonna make you play basketball. Okay. So and and once

655
00:40:09,560 --> 00:40:13,239
Speaker 1: you make them play basketball, then there's a certain frustration

656
00:40:13,400 --> 00:40:18,000
Speaker 1: that that comes along with that. Unfortunately for myself at

657
00:40:18,040 --> 00:40:24,839
Speaker 1: that period of time, Bird Magic, Kareem McHale, Dennis John

658
00:40:25,120 --> 00:40:31,759
Speaker 1: you can talk man, you talking basketball, IQ. That's just

659
00:40:32,040 --> 00:40:35,719
Speaker 1: off the charts, right. Not only so, there was there

660
00:40:35,840 --> 00:40:40,080
Speaker 1: was no wearing those guys down mentally, It was only

661
00:40:40,400 --> 00:40:45,960
Speaker 1: can you can you understand what they're doing and gain knowledge?

662
00:40:46,400 --> 00:40:50,560
Speaker 1: Right then put it on the rest of the league. Right. So,

663
00:40:51,640 --> 00:40:56,600
Speaker 1: you know, as as time went on, the Lakers got

664
00:40:56,640 --> 00:41:00,479
Speaker 1: a little older, two Celtics got a little older. And

665
00:41:00,760 --> 00:41:02,839
Speaker 1: you know, we were we wanting to come, and we

666
00:41:02,840 --> 00:41:05,520
Speaker 1: were young going to come. But not only were we

667
00:41:05,640 --> 00:41:09,600
Speaker 1: young gonna come, we had an intellect and intelligence that

668
00:41:09,800 --> 00:41:14,400
Speaker 1: was coming along with that which which made us extremely dangerous.

669
00:41:14,560 --> 00:41:16,600
Speaker 1: It's like when you look at that Celtics team that

670
00:41:17,160 --> 00:41:23,759
Speaker 1: the eighty six eighty seven Lakers Celtics teams. Those are

671
00:41:24,000 --> 00:41:27,160
Speaker 1: those are looked at us two of the best teams

672
00:41:27,239 --> 00:41:29,879
Speaker 1: to ever play, two of the top five teams ever

673
00:41:29,920 --> 00:41:35,360
Speaker 1: played great basketball in the NBA. Well, in eighty seven

674
00:41:36,239 --> 00:41:40,879
Speaker 1: we had the Celtics beat. In eighty eight, we had

675
00:41:40,920 --> 00:41:45,160
Speaker 1: the Lakers beat. That's how good a basketball team we were.

676
00:41:45,960 --> 00:41:50,399
Speaker 1: So once the play you made to play Birds there

677
00:41:50,560 --> 00:41:52,920
Speaker 1: unit we know the call birds, the all eight pass,

678
00:41:52,960 --> 00:41:56,600
Speaker 1: the DJ DJ lays it up. Obviously that had to

679
00:41:56,680 --> 00:41:58,480
Speaker 1: hurt because you like, we got him dead to write,

680
00:41:58,680 --> 00:42:01,759
Speaker 1: we got him what what I've been trying to accomplish

681
00:42:01,920 --> 00:42:04,680
Speaker 1: since eighty one, since I arrived here in Detroit. It's

682
00:42:04,800 --> 00:42:09,200
Speaker 1: about to happen. Yeah, what what's going through your mind

683
00:42:09,239 --> 00:42:11,960
Speaker 1: that offseason when you knew you had him and you

684
00:42:12,040 --> 00:42:16,799
Speaker 1: let it slip away. I got one more lesson to learn.

685
00:42:17,360 --> 00:42:20,719
Speaker 1: The next year, I'm gonna beat him right, because because

686
00:42:20,719 --> 00:42:25,279
Speaker 1: I had him right, I had him and and and

687
00:42:25,360 --> 00:42:27,200
Speaker 1: you saw the next year we came back and beat

688
00:42:27,239 --> 00:42:31,479
Speaker 1: him right. And and that game five that I made

689
00:42:31,520 --> 00:42:36,920
Speaker 1: the mistake in Boston. Go back and look at the

690
00:42:37,080 --> 00:42:41,719
Speaker 1: next year, my Game five in Boston what I did.

691
00:42:45,200 --> 00:42:47,839
Speaker 1: Just go back, how money your stag gas go back

692
00:42:47,880 --> 00:42:51,720
Speaker 1: and look at the next year, Game five in Boston. Oh, y'all,

693
00:42:51,800 --> 00:42:54,399
Speaker 1: y'all gave him at work, because I hold on, did

694
00:42:54,400 --> 00:42:56,640
Speaker 1: they y'all? They took one game. They might have took

695
00:42:56,640 --> 00:43:01,279
Speaker 1: what was a four one or four two? Uh? Four two? Yeah, yeah,

696
00:43:01,400 --> 00:43:05,200
Speaker 1: but it was it was I think they were mentally done. Yeah,

697
00:43:05,239 --> 00:43:07,680
Speaker 1: they you know, they they were. They were a champion,

698
00:43:07,719 --> 00:43:10,120
Speaker 1: they were they were mentally done. And you hit the

699
00:43:10,200 --> 00:43:12,680
Speaker 1: right word. You know that there's only so long that

700
00:43:12,719 --> 00:43:16,000
Speaker 1: you can sustain that concentration. But again, what I love

701
00:43:16,040 --> 00:43:20,160
Speaker 1: about Boston is they were great teachers, right, they were.

702
00:43:20,280 --> 00:43:22,800
Speaker 1: They were great teachers. I said, I don't think people

703
00:43:24,239 --> 00:43:28,640
Speaker 1: understand the mental and the physical toll it is to

704
00:43:28,760 --> 00:43:32,080
Speaker 1: start playing in October and finish your season every year

705
00:43:32,120 --> 00:43:35,120
Speaker 1: in June, because that's what the Because you remember, like

706
00:43:35,160 --> 00:43:38,239
Speaker 1: in the early part of the eighties, it was Celtics

707
00:43:38,320 --> 00:43:41,200
Speaker 1: every year representing basically in the East. Before you guys

708
00:43:41,280 --> 00:43:44,120
Speaker 1: came over, it was the Celtics balanced the sixers to

709
00:43:44,200 --> 00:43:46,680
Speaker 1: represent the East and they were going against the Lakers,

710
00:43:46,840 --> 00:43:48,600
Speaker 1: and it was that every single year. So if you

711
00:43:48,680 --> 00:43:53,080
Speaker 1: go back like from eighty what eighty three, so basically

712
00:43:53,080 --> 00:43:55,000
Speaker 1: it was it was the Lakers in eighty it was

713
00:43:55,040 --> 00:43:56,800
Speaker 1: the Lakers in eighty two, it was the Lakers in

714
00:43:56,880 --> 00:44:00,600
Speaker 1: eighty three, the Lakers in eighty five, it was the Liking,

715
00:44:00,640 --> 00:44:05,239
Speaker 1: the eighty seven, eighty eight. It's the finals. We're talking about,

716
00:44:05,280 --> 00:44:08,480
Speaker 1: no first round, We're talking about the NBA Finals. And

717
00:44:08,520 --> 00:44:11,080
Speaker 1: then it was you guys. You guys were battling the

718
00:44:11,160 --> 00:44:14,359
Speaker 1: Celtics every year in the Eastern Conference finals and then

719
00:44:14,480 --> 00:44:18,839
Speaker 1: you go you represent the Eastern Conference in the finals. Yeah,

720
00:44:19,080 --> 00:44:21,200
Speaker 1: year after year after year, and it takes the ground.

721
00:44:21,280 --> 00:44:23,919
Speaker 1: We saw the grind that it took on Golden State

722
00:44:24,000 --> 00:44:26,799
Speaker 1: last year, Kevin the Red and that was only three

723
00:44:26,880 --> 00:44:29,279
Speaker 1: for KD. The other guys had gone to five. And

724
00:44:29,360 --> 00:44:31,360
Speaker 1: you see the toll that it took. It took on

725
00:44:31,400 --> 00:44:36,040
Speaker 1: them physically. Yeah, it's a you know, the when when

726
00:44:36,040 --> 00:44:39,080
Speaker 1: you're the champion and you're the best, and you you

727
00:44:39,239 --> 00:44:44,040
Speaker 1: prepare every night to be the best, there's an opponent

728
00:44:44,480 --> 00:44:49,319
Speaker 1: that's bringing his best every single night to right, so

729
00:44:49,680 --> 00:44:52,680
Speaker 1: there really are no nights off. And then when you're

730
00:44:52,719 --> 00:44:55,960
Speaker 1: the best player, there are certain standards that you have

731
00:44:56,040 --> 00:44:59,799
Speaker 1: to bring to the game every night because now only

732
00:45:00,120 --> 00:45:03,760
Speaker 1: are you a good player, but now you're a performer also,

733
00:45:03,880 --> 00:45:06,759
Speaker 1: so the audience is paying money to see you play,

734
00:45:06,840 --> 00:45:09,080
Speaker 1: So not only do you have to play, but you

735
00:45:09,160 --> 00:45:12,560
Speaker 1: also got to give give a good performance. And this

736
00:45:12,640 --> 00:45:14,799
Speaker 1: is you know, so magic and I you know, we

737
00:45:15,080 --> 00:45:17,239
Speaker 1: you know, we're very friendly with the Jacksons. And this

738
00:45:17,280 --> 00:45:20,000
Speaker 1: is what we learned from from watching the Jacksons and

739
00:45:20,080 --> 00:45:23,520
Speaker 1: Michael Jackson that that summer and that whole two years

740
00:45:23,560 --> 00:45:26,759
Speaker 1: that we toured with them, is that the energy that

741
00:45:26,800 --> 00:45:30,319
Speaker 1: they brought every single night and the performance that they

742
00:45:30,360 --> 00:45:33,760
Speaker 1: gave no matter who was in the audience, no matter

743
00:45:33,800 --> 00:45:37,160
Speaker 1: where they were playing, you got the best out of

744
00:45:37,200 --> 00:45:42,920
Speaker 1: them every single show. And it was like, Okay, there

745
00:45:42,920 --> 00:45:46,640
Speaker 1: are some people that can give a concert, but then

746
00:45:47,000 --> 00:45:52,439
Speaker 1: Michael Jackson concert, it's different. Now he got to perform. Yeah,

747
00:45:52,480 --> 00:45:54,920
Speaker 1: he can't have it off night, that's right. So I

748
00:45:54,960 --> 00:45:57,200
Speaker 1: when you start the basketball team, when you start of

749
00:45:57,239 --> 00:46:00,600
Speaker 1: a team, you can't have it off night, off night.

750
00:46:00,920 --> 00:46:03,640
Speaker 1: So that's what I tried to bring to my game.

751
00:46:03,840 --> 00:46:08,680
Speaker 1: I tried to bring that that well, Michael Jackson can

752
00:46:08,800 --> 00:46:13,279
Speaker 1: can make a person in a twentieth row feel an

753
00:46:13,360 --> 00:46:17,120
Speaker 1: emotion that he was feeling when he would move walker.

754
00:46:17,200 --> 00:46:19,080
Speaker 1: He would hit a move and the guy in the

755
00:46:19,080 --> 00:46:21,960
Speaker 1: twentieth row would be like, oh, well, I wanted to

756
00:46:22,280 --> 00:46:26,120
Speaker 1: make that fan right feel that whenever I would like

757
00:46:26,239 --> 00:46:29,040
Speaker 1: hit a good move, I would want that that person

758
00:46:29,120 --> 00:46:32,200
Speaker 1: in the stand to feel that emotion that I was

759
00:46:32,239 --> 00:46:35,560
Speaker 1: given off in that energy because it felt good to me.

760
00:46:36,080 --> 00:46:39,840
Speaker 1: I wanted them to feel that good too. I know

761
00:46:39,920 --> 00:46:43,120
Speaker 1: it's hard, but you played and arguably the greatest era

762
00:46:43,320 --> 00:46:49,040
Speaker 1: the eighties that we've seen. How would you rank Bad

763
00:46:49,080 --> 00:46:54,280
Speaker 1: Boy Pistons, Showtime Lakers, the Big Three, Celtics, the Bulls

764
00:46:54,320 --> 00:46:56,560
Speaker 1: at the tail end although they didn't win, they were

765
00:46:56,600 --> 00:46:59,399
Speaker 1: on the they did to you what you had did

766
00:46:59,520 --> 00:47:02,080
Speaker 1: to the sel thinks in the Lakers they were stalking

767
00:47:02,600 --> 00:47:05,560
Speaker 1: from an outside position. How would you how would you rank?

768
00:47:05,600 --> 00:47:08,600
Speaker 1: How would you rank the dynasties of the eighties? So

769
00:47:08,920 --> 00:47:12,680
Speaker 1: uh you you'd have to rank the you know, the Lakers,

770
00:47:12,760 --> 00:47:17,319
Speaker 1: Celtics arguably one or two, you know, one eight one

771
00:47:17,360 --> 00:47:19,560
Speaker 1: b depending on you know, do you like vanilla ice

772
00:47:19,600 --> 00:47:23,080
Speaker 1: cream or chocolate ice cream? Still ice cream? You know?

773
00:47:25,480 --> 00:47:28,719
Speaker 1: And in Philly that period of time with with Moses

774
00:47:28,760 --> 00:47:32,440
Speaker 1: and Doctor Jay, you know, in the eighties, you know,

775
00:47:32,840 --> 00:47:35,839
Speaker 1: you got to give him their their respect too. I

776
00:47:35,840 --> 00:47:39,160
Speaker 1: think we would probably be, you know, in the eighties,

777
00:47:40,200 --> 00:47:46,480
Speaker 1: we would be somewhere in there as a basketball team. Now,

778
00:47:46,520 --> 00:47:51,040
Speaker 1: talent wise, the Lakers, the Celtics, the seventy six ers,

779
00:47:51,719 --> 00:47:57,160
Speaker 1: we cannot compete with their talent. But as a basketball team,

780
00:47:57,200 --> 00:48:00,919
Speaker 1: as a young I would venture to say that our

781
00:48:00,960 --> 00:48:04,880
Speaker 1: basketball team as a unit was just as good as

782
00:48:04,960 --> 00:48:08,719
Speaker 1: their teams. Okay, However, if you're just breaking it down

783
00:48:08,760 --> 00:48:13,080
Speaker 1: by talent, we did not have the talent that any

784
00:48:13,080 --> 00:48:17,759
Speaker 1: of those teams had. But not having a talent, it's

785
00:48:17,840 --> 00:48:22,080
Speaker 1: really what made us even more special because we didn't

786
00:48:22,160 --> 00:48:26,080
Speaker 1: have the luxury that they had, right, you didn't have

787
00:48:26,120 --> 00:48:28,440
Speaker 1: all those I mean, the Lakers are littered with Hall

788
00:48:28,480 --> 00:48:30,680
Speaker 1: of Famers. They got six and seven, you got. We

789
00:48:30,760 --> 00:48:34,400
Speaker 1: know about Kareem and Magic and James Worthy and Jamal

790
00:48:34,520 --> 00:48:39,480
Speaker 1: Wilkes and Bob McAdoo. We know about those guys. And

791
00:48:39,560 --> 00:48:42,040
Speaker 1: Norm Nixon was Norm Nixon was a heck of a

792
00:48:42,040 --> 00:48:44,480
Speaker 1: player also, and you know about the Big the Big

793
00:48:44,480 --> 00:48:47,520
Speaker 1: Three Celtics. But people don't realize Dennis Johnson was a

794
00:48:47,600 --> 00:48:51,120
Speaker 1: Finals MVP and a Defensive Player of the Year. Bill Walton.

795
00:48:51,400 --> 00:48:54,200
Speaker 1: Bill Walton was an MVP. He was a Finals MVP.

796
00:48:54,680 --> 00:48:57,960
Speaker 1: People don't realize just how good those teams were. And

797
00:48:58,040 --> 00:49:00,000
Speaker 1: you took him down, and then everybody gonna say, well,

798
00:49:00,160 --> 00:49:02,000
Speaker 1: you know they got nold, but you still beat them.

799
00:49:02,040 --> 00:49:04,960
Speaker 1: Nobody else beat them and they were getting old. No, no,

800
00:49:05,120 --> 00:49:06,920
Speaker 1: it wasn't. It wasn't that they were getting old. We

801
00:49:06,920 --> 00:49:12,160
Speaker 1: were that good. So and so I gave you eighty

802
00:49:12,200 --> 00:49:17,680
Speaker 1: six eighty seven. Those were teams. In eighty seven we

803
00:49:17,800 --> 00:49:21,839
Speaker 1: had them beat you did. In eighty eight we had

804
00:49:21,880 --> 00:49:27,960
Speaker 1: the Lakers beat So we were that good. Right now, now,

805
00:49:28,000 --> 00:49:31,080
Speaker 1: when you look at Philadelphia, the Lakers, and the Celtics,

806
00:49:32,200 --> 00:49:35,480
Speaker 1: every one of those teams that we just named in

807
00:49:35,560 --> 00:49:41,840
Speaker 1: eighties that were champions, all of them had three or

808
00:49:42,120 --> 00:49:50,040
Speaker 1: four top fifty players on their team. Yes, not not one.

809
00:49:51,120 --> 00:49:56,280
Speaker 1: They had three or four top players on yes, yes,

810
00:49:56,400 --> 00:49:59,399
Speaker 1: Detroit Pistons. And this is this is why I say

811
00:49:59,480 --> 00:50:04,839
Speaker 1: we were great team. I was the only one as

812
00:50:05,080 --> 00:50:10,240
Speaker 1: as a top fifty player on my team. That's how good,

813
00:50:10,239 --> 00:50:14,640
Speaker 1: that's how good a unit we had become to compete

814
00:50:14,640 --> 00:50:19,600
Speaker 1: against teams that had three or four top fifty players

815
00:50:20,239 --> 00:50:22,640
Speaker 1: on their team. Yeah, I think the celt has had

816
00:50:22,680 --> 00:50:26,200
Speaker 1: like five because the Big three DJ and Bill Walton

817
00:50:26,440 --> 00:50:30,640
Speaker 1: yea couple of times we're gonna talk about you call people.

818
00:50:30,800 --> 00:50:33,080
Speaker 1: You called a lot of criticism, and people say, well,

819
00:50:33,120 --> 00:50:37,840
Speaker 1: he just hating, he just upset. You said, Michael wasn't

820
00:50:37,880 --> 00:50:42,440
Speaker 1: my competition. I never chased Michael. I was chasing Larry

821
00:50:42,719 --> 00:50:45,440
Speaker 1: and Magic. I was chasing the Celtics and the Lakers

822
00:50:45,760 --> 00:50:50,239
Speaker 1: because they had what I wanted. Michael never had what

823
00:50:50,360 --> 00:50:53,960
Speaker 1: I wanted. He was chasing me. I wasn't chasing him.

824
00:50:54,280 --> 00:51:00,600
Speaker 1: Explain what you mean by that. You know, just had toad.

825
00:51:00,760 --> 00:51:03,360
Speaker 1: You know I was dominant over him, right, you know

826
00:51:03,520 --> 00:51:06,319
Speaker 1: when we when all teams met. You know, when you

827
00:51:06,360 --> 00:51:10,080
Speaker 1: go back and you look at until ninety one, when

828
00:51:10,080 --> 00:51:13,080
Speaker 1: I when I when I basically had career in the

829
00:51:13,200 --> 00:51:18,200
Speaker 1: risk surgery, right up until then, you know, my record

830
00:51:18,239 --> 00:51:22,360
Speaker 1: against against against him and his team, you know, it

831
00:51:22,520 --> 00:51:28,279
Speaker 1: was it wasn't It really was a competition there, all right.

832
00:51:29,280 --> 00:51:33,440
Speaker 1: And you know, you know, and and most people think

833
00:51:33,520 --> 00:51:35,839
Speaker 1: like we're you know, I'm five years older than him,

834
00:51:35,840 --> 00:51:38,200
Speaker 1: but we only a year apart, year, two year and

835
00:51:38,239 --> 00:51:44,080
Speaker 1: a half apart. So but you know, he just wasn't

836
00:51:44,120 --> 00:51:47,800
Speaker 1: my competition. Now, Bird didn't have anything that you wanted.

837
00:51:49,000 --> 00:51:52,279
Speaker 1: He didn't have a profit, no and like I said,

838
00:51:52,280 --> 00:51:57,280
Speaker 1: my my focus was Bird, Magic, Doctor Jay, Kareem Abdul Jabbar.

839
00:51:58,280 --> 00:52:02,359
Speaker 1: Those were the guys, right. You know, I don't care

840
00:52:02,360 --> 00:52:05,440
Speaker 1: what anybody saying. You can go back and look at history.

841
00:52:06,040 --> 00:52:11,720
Speaker 1: Those were the guys. They were Moses Malone, Larry Bird,

842
00:52:12,400 --> 00:52:18,319
Speaker 1: Robert Parrish, Kevin McHale, Kareem, Magic, James. Those were the guys, right.

843
00:52:19,480 --> 00:52:22,320
Speaker 1: Because back then the Celtics were putting four players on

844
00:52:22,360 --> 00:52:24,600
Speaker 1: the All Star team. They have their three big guys

845
00:52:24,600 --> 00:52:27,759
Speaker 1: and Dennis Johnson. I'm like, the East would look like

846
00:52:27,800 --> 00:52:29,480
Speaker 1: the Celtics. I'm like, hold on, wait a minute, if

847
00:52:29,480 --> 00:52:32,279
Speaker 1: there anybody else in the East. Yeah, well there was

848
00:52:32,360 --> 00:52:35,640
Speaker 1: Milwaukee because we remember mill Walker was good, that Jerry Cummings,

849
00:52:35,719 --> 00:52:41,239
Speaker 1: they had a Bobliner, they had Alvin Robinson, Monfree. They

850
00:52:41,239 --> 00:52:45,279
Speaker 1: would they would lose, they would lose to Milwaukee, would

851
00:52:45,320 --> 00:52:50,319
Speaker 1: lose to Philadelphia or Austin. Ye seven games, yep. And

852
00:52:50,400 --> 00:52:54,200
Speaker 1: that's how good that Milwaukee team was. Yep. I remember,

853
00:52:54,239 --> 00:52:58,040
Speaker 1: I remember, like yesterday. Yeah. So Chicago, I mean, and

854
00:52:58,040 --> 00:53:00,320
Speaker 1: I'm and I'm from Chicago and I'm from the West Side.

855
00:53:00,360 --> 00:53:04,719
Speaker 1: But you know, Jordan, Jordan was you know, he dominated

856
00:53:04,800 --> 00:53:08,200
Speaker 1: a different era right, you put Jordan in our era,

857
00:53:09,000 --> 00:53:11,960
Speaker 1: you know, he lost a lot in our era. Right,

858
00:53:14,400 --> 00:53:17,080
Speaker 1: Who would you say, are the five toughest players that

859
00:53:17,760 --> 00:53:22,120
Speaker 1: you've had to face again? You know, and you can

860
00:53:22,160 --> 00:53:24,920
Speaker 1: just go by to winning records, right, you know, right,

861
00:53:26,760 --> 00:53:34,840
Speaker 1: Magic Kareem, Okay, Bird Bird, Doctor Jay. And then I

862
00:53:34,880 --> 00:53:42,839
Speaker 1: would say, Jordan, look, I believe knowing you the little

863
00:53:42,880 --> 00:53:46,360
Speaker 1: bit that I do. You're speaking like you have to understand.

864
00:53:46,480 --> 00:53:49,799
Speaker 1: When I came in and eighty one, the Lakers and

865
00:53:49,840 --> 00:53:55,920
Speaker 1: the Celtics basically dominated. Michael was great, had great highlight reels,

866
00:53:56,160 --> 00:53:59,680
Speaker 1: but he wasn't winning anything. See, people look at what

867
00:53:59,680 --> 00:54:02,279
Speaker 1: he did in the nineties and they try to transport

868
00:54:02,360 --> 00:54:04,680
Speaker 1: that back to the eighties. But that didn't happen in

869
00:54:04,719 --> 00:54:08,960
Speaker 1: the eighties. No, And you gotta understand, I play a

870
00:54:09,000 --> 00:54:11,960
Speaker 1: different kind of game. So, as I said to you earlier,

871
00:54:13,080 --> 00:54:18,000
Speaker 1: your genetic gifts, right, I'm going to eliminate all of that,

872
00:54:19,600 --> 00:54:22,239
Speaker 1: And now we're gonna play basketball, and it's going to

873
00:54:22,320 --> 00:54:28,920
Speaker 1: be about a mental stammina. You know, because I can't

874
00:54:28,960 --> 00:54:32,840
Speaker 1: I can't jump higher than than than some. I can't

875
00:54:33,120 --> 00:54:39,600
Speaker 1: I can't out hight, I can't outwait some. But I

876
00:54:39,600 --> 00:54:46,600
Speaker 1: can outthink a lot, right, So what I'm trying to understand, Isaiah,

877
00:54:46,640 --> 00:54:52,360
Speaker 1: is that people you said you learned from the Lakers,

878
00:54:52,560 --> 00:54:56,040
Speaker 1: from the Celtics, and you implemented that to the bad

879
00:54:56,080 --> 00:55:00,279
Speaker 1: Boy Pistons, So you brought a mentality. So why do

880
00:55:00,400 --> 00:55:03,279
Speaker 1: people criticize you for the type of basketball that your

881
00:55:03,320 --> 00:55:06,520
Speaker 1: team played? Do they not remember the Celtics and the

882
00:55:06,600 --> 00:55:09,040
Speaker 1: Lakers snatching each other out this guy? Do they not

883
00:55:09,200 --> 00:55:12,600
Speaker 1: remember them knocking each other in the front row? Why

884
00:55:12,719 --> 00:55:15,880
Speaker 1: is it that the bad Boy Pistons get this label

885
00:55:16,400 --> 00:55:18,959
Speaker 1: but pretend like the Lakers and the Celtics, who playing

886
00:55:19,000 --> 00:55:22,400
Speaker 1: such beautiful basketball when they were just as physical, and

887
00:55:22,520 --> 00:55:25,040
Speaker 1: you learned that style of play because you felt the

888
00:55:25,080 --> 00:55:27,279
Speaker 1: only way that you could beat the bullet was the

889
00:55:27,320 --> 00:55:32,120
Speaker 1: bully the bully. Well, what what the bad Boy Pistons

890
00:55:32,320 --> 00:55:36,719
Speaker 1: also did was we stepped out of the sports arena

891
00:55:37,840 --> 00:55:48,200
Speaker 1: and we started critiquing society from a race, class, gender, sport.

892
00:55:48,760 --> 00:55:52,800
Speaker 1: So we we we started talking about race, We started

893
00:55:52,840 --> 00:55:57,320
Speaker 1: talking about all the things that the champions talk about

894
00:55:57,960 --> 00:56:02,080
Speaker 1: when coming from from all from all community. When the

895
00:56:02,160 --> 00:56:06,880
Speaker 1: champion gets the mic, he or she has to speak

896
00:56:07,400 --> 00:56:11,560
Speaker 1: for what's going on inside the community. So you have

897
00:56:11,719 --> 00:56:14,839
Speaker 1: the voice, so you speak for the voiceless. Were the

898
00:56:14,840 --> 00:56:18,680
Speaker 1: things that I was saying at that particular time about

899
00:56:18,760 --> 00:56:23,440
Speaker 1: critique in all industry, about we wanted we needed more

900
00:56:24,120 --> 00:56:29,240
Speaker 1: more officials who were of color like us. We needed

901
00:56:29,360 --> 00:56:33,520
Speaker 1: more coaches who were colored like us. And and by

902
00:56:33,560 --> 00:56:38,440
Speaker 1: the way, the media that was covering us at that time,

903
00:56:38,640 --> 00:56:44,320
Speaker 1: if you remember, females weren't allowed to even cover the sport.

904
00:56:45,080 --> 00:56:48,839
Speaker 1: It were just breaking into the sport it was. It

905
00:56:48,920 --> 00:56:54,720
Speaker 1: was really all white male men who covered all sport,

906
00:56:55,960 --> 00:57:00,360
Speaker 1: and the perspective that they had of us, of me,

907
00:57:01,440 --> 00:57:05,840
Speaker 1: was all the public read. Now, I grew up on

908
00:57:05,840 --> 00:57:09,040
Speaker 1: the West Side of Chicago, and we just chronicled my

909
00:57:09,120 --> 00:57:14,560
Speaker 1: whole you know, childhood and everything else. The first time

910
00:57:14,640 --> 00:57:18,880
Speaker 1: I was called a thug, Listen to me close to

911
00:57:18,880 --> 00:57:21,760
Speaker 1: me when I say this, Shannon. First time I was

912
00:57:21,840 --> 00:57:27,160
Speaker 1: called a thug, and we know what that means, was

913
00:57:27,200 --> 00:57:29,920
Speaker 1: when I was in the NBA plan for the Detroit

914
00:57:30,000 --> 00:57:36,480
Speaker 1: Pistons by a white Caucasian male who described me and

915
00:57:36,600 --> 00:57:41,040
Speaker 1: my play as a thug and thuggish. I've lived my

916
00:57:41,120 --> 00:57:45,160
Speaker 1: whole life and I've never been called a thug. But

917
00:57:45,280 --> 00:57:50,280
Speaker 1: now I get to this arena and this plan field

918
00:57:51,120 --> 00:57:55,120
Speaker 1: and now the and what I talked about then was

919
00:57:55,160 --> 00:57:59,800
Speaker 1: the labeling theory. I said, all the negative labels that

920
00:58:00,080 --> 00:58:04,600
Speaker 1: are attaching to us. When Mandela came to visit us,

921
00:58:05,600 --> 00:58:08,760
Speaker 1: everyone everyone knew in the NBA what we stood for

922
00:58:09,840 --> 00:58:13,560
Speaker 1: and what we were speaking about. In Detroit, my No

923
00:58:13,800 --> 00:58:17,360
Speaker 1: Crime Day March, all those things were happening, and so

924
00:58:17,720 --> 00:58:21,720
Speaker 1: you know, there was a certain backlash because I was

925
00:58:22,120 --> 00:58:26,200
Speaker 1: pushing that we needed more people of color covering all sport.

926
00:58:27,400 --> 00:58:31,720
Speaker 1: So the Detroit Pistons today still have two African Americans

927
00:58:32,160 --> 00:58:37,560
Speaker 1: covering their beat. I'm proud of that, right, Okay, every

928
00:58:38,120 --> 00:58:43,240
Speaker 1: every beat writer that covered our team became a columnist

929
00:58:44,160 --> 00:58:48,200
Speaker 1: because we were giving them access. So when you look

930
00:58:48,240 --> 00:58:51,680
Speaker 1: back at what we were doing in the sport, and

931
00:58:51,720 --> 00:58:57,360
Speaker 1: then me being a president of the Players Association, deregulating agents,

932
00:58:58,160 --> 00:59:03,160
Speaker 1: putting in an agent certification and giving the players back

933
00:59:03,200 --> 00:59:05,680
Speaker 1: their money. Because if you remember, Shannon, remember all them

934
00:59:05,680 --> 00:59:09,600
Speaker 1: stories are, oh this player went broke, what happened to

935
00:59:09,640 --> 00:59:12,520
Speaker 1: all their money? You don't read those stories no more

936
00:59:12,600 --> 00:59:16,480
Speaker 1: that often, right, Because the agents were taking twenty percent

937
00:59:16,560 --> 00:59:20,280
Speaker 1: of the players money off the top, and then they

938
00:59:20,280 --> 00:59:27,880
Speaker 1: were taking fifty percent of endorsements tax free. So when

939
00:59:28,040 --> 00:59:32,160
Speaker 1: when you started the certifying agents started putting an agent regulations.

940
00:59:32,240 --> 00:59:36,120
Speaker 1: So you know, the story around the Pistons and myself

941
00:59:36,560 --> 00:59:41,560
Speaker 1: has a lot to do with agents, media perception, right,

942
00:59:42,160 --> 00:59:46,520
Speaker 1: media talk about us, and so we kind of get

943
00:59:47,080 --> 00:59:49,280
Speaker 1: pushed to the side because you can only hear it

944
00:59:49,320 --> 00:59:53,400
Speaker 1: about there. That's very false about us. Right, because because

945
00:59:53,480 --> 00:59:56,640
Speaker 1: the person that's writing the story about you and the

946
00:59:56,680 --> 00:59:58,880
Speaker 1: person that's reading it, if they don't know you, well,

947
00:59:59,160 --> 01:00:01,760
Speaker 1: this person is right writing about him. This is what

948
01:00:01,800 --> 01:00:06,520
Speaker 1: he's saying about him, it must be true. At that time, yeah,

949
01:00:06,560 --> 01:00:11,480
Speaker 1: because there was there was no zoom right Internet, that

950
01:00:11,680 --> 01:00:14,560
Speaker 1: was the only way you could get your voice out

951
01:00:15,840 --> 01:00:19,560
Speaker 1: was to sit and talk to someone who had to

952
01:00:19,720 --> 01:00:24,360
Speaker 1: interpret what you were saying, right. Then they would write

953
01:00:24,400 --> 01:00:29,160
Speaker 1: it right, then it would get edited again, right, So

954
01:00:29,760 --> 01:00:33,480
Speaker 1: depending on what the editor on the writer wanted you

955
01:00:33,600 --> 01:00:39,400
Speaker 1: to say, that's exactly what you said. Your agency as

956
01:00:39,440 --> 01:00:44,919
Speaker 1: a person, your ability to communicate, that was all sectioned off.

957
01:00:45,080 --> 01:00:49,680
Speaker 1: So when this thing came along Internet, zoom technology everything, Okay,

958
01:00:49,680 --> 01:00:52,600
Speaker 1: now you can you can speak for yourself. Right. You

959
01:00:52,680 --> 01:00:54,840
Speaker 1: got social media, so now you got acts that you

960
01:00:54,880 --> 01:00:57,439
Speaker 1: can you got your own platform you don't need someone

961
01:00:57,520 --> 01:00:59,880
Speaker 1: else to tell your story. I can tell my own,

962
01:01:00,120 --> 01:01:03,880
Speaker 1: or I say, before we move on, Uh, you caught

963
01:01:03,960 --> 01:01:07,360
Speaker 1: I think maybe in your playing days. One of the

964
01:01:07,400 --> 01:01:12,640
Speaker 1: greatest guests, if you want to say, Turmoils that you

965
01:01:12,720 --> 01:01:15,280
Speaker 1: got caught up in was the nineteen eighty seven and

966
01:01:15,320 --> 01:01:17,320
Speaker 1: you talked about that game. And they went to Dennis

967
01:01:17,440 --> 01:01:21,560
Speaker 1: Rodman and they asked Dennis Rodman the question, and Dennis said,

968
01:01:21,680 --> 01:01:24,160
Speaker 1: if lad Berry would just black, he would be another player.

969
01:01:24,520 --> 01:01:29,200
Speaker 1: They asked you. You answered, you were chuckling. Yeah, you

970
01:01:29,720 --> 01:01:35,360
Speaker 1: be properly right. That was we'd had up until that point.

971
01:01:35,360 --> 01:01:37,000
Speaker 1: I don't know if we'd had anything. I don't. I

972
01:01:37,040 --> 01:01:40,120
Speaker 1: don't remember now. Maybe you go back a little further

973
01:01:40,120 --> 01:01:42,640
Speaker 1: than I do, but I hadn't heard anything. And you

974
01:01:42,720 --> 01:01:45,880
Speaker 1: had to come out in an NBA Finals game, sit

975
01:01:45,960 --> 01:01:49,640
Speaker 1: on the podium next to Larry and explain your side

976
01:01:49,680 --> 01:01:54,560
Speaker 1: of the story, elaborate for the people that that's younger

977
01:01:54,560 --> 01:01:59,760
Speaker 1: than Shannon, that don't that doesn't remember that well. Race

978
01:02:00,760 --> 01:02:06,680
Speaker 1: and and and controversy around race in this country has

979
01:02:06,840 --> 01:02:10,760
Speaker 1: always been a conversation. Yes, I've always been trying to

980
01:02:12,920 --> 01:02:17,640
Speaker 1: elevate and get ourselves out of this race box that

981
01:02:17,720 --> 01:02:22,720
Speaker 1: they put us all in. Yeah, And in that period

982
01:02:22,720 --> 01:02:25,560
Speaker 1: of time, I was having a conversation because it was

983
01:02:27,120 --> 01:02:31,439
Speaker 1: it was I think it was the twenty fifth anniversary

984
01:02:31,440 --> 01:02:36,200
Speaker 1: of Jackie Robinson breaking the colored area in baseball, and

985
01:02:36,200 --> 01:02:39,440
Speaker 1: and that week all we were talking about with stereotypes

986
01:02:39,960 --> 01:02:44,800
Speaker 1: to stereotypes, what might have been a might have forty seven,

987
01:02:44,840 --> 01:02:46,680
Speaker 1: It might have been the fortieth. It was the fortieth

988
01:02:46,680 --> 01:02:51,400
Speaker 1: anniversary Jackie came into forty seven, and that was eighty seven. Ok, well,

989
01:02:51,400 --> 01:02:54,040
Speaker 1: thank you for correcting me. I know it was one

990
01:02:54,040 --> 01:02:58,640
Speaker 1: of those anniverses. Yes, And so we were talking about stereotypes, race,

991
01:02:58,840 --> 01:03:04,720
Speaker 1: everything else. And I was having a conversation about how, yes,

992
01:03:04,840 --> 01:03:09,280
Speaker 1: these stereotypes that that you have stuck on us as

993
01:03:09,480 --> 01:03:15,200
Speaker 1: athletes and also in society they still exist. And I

994
01:03:15,240 --> 01:03:20,040
Speaker 1: was using the black quarterback as an example of how

995
01:03:20,600 --> 01:03:25,320
Speaker 1: the black quarterback in the NFL at that time still

996
01:03:25,560 --> 01:03:30,960
Speaker 1: wasn't perceived to have the knowledge the capability of leading

997
01:03:31,040 --> 01:03:34,200
Speaker 1: the team quarterback and the team and running the team.

998
01:03:34,280 --> 01:03:37,080
Speaker 1: I mean, that was all for debate, and I'm saying

999
01:03:37,120 --> 01:03:40,520
Speaker 1: that was the same in sport. The Magic Johnson has

1000
01:03:40,560 --> 01:03:43,120
Speaker 1: given credit for being a great athlete, but he's not

1001
01:03:43,200 --> 01:03:47,040
Speaker 1: given credit for being the smartest player in the sport.

1002
01:03:47,200 --> 01:03:51,840
Speaker 1: Kareem the same thing. And now Bird had just dropped.

1003
01:03:51,840 --> 01:03:54,280
Speaker 1: You know, I think he had a triple double on

1004
01:03:54,400 --> 01:03:57,880
Speaker 1: us and had went off. Now, all relationship with the

1005
01:03:57,920 --> 01:04:03,720
Speaker 1: Celtics was always a close relationship. Even though we competed hard,

1006
01:04:04,240 --> 01:04:07,640
Speaker 1: we played hard against each other, but we always had

1007
01:04:07,680 --> 01:04:13,480
Speaker 1: a close relationship. And and I can remember telling Bird, hey, Rodman,

1008
01:04:13,720 --> 01:04:17,440
Speaker 1: you know, first his first exhibition game, we were in

1009
01:04:18,920 --> 01:04:23,440
Speaker 1: and Hartford, Connecticut, and I was telling Bird like this,

1010
01:04:23,440 --> 01:04:25,840
Speaker 1: this one here can guard, he can defend. So forth

1011
01:04:25,880 --> 01:04:28,680
Speaker 1: and Song anywhere. Bird ended up, you know, giving it

1012
01:04:28,720 --> 01:04:31,200
Speaker 1: to him. But throughout the year, you know, Robin was

1013
01:04:31,200 --> 01:04:32,680
Speaker 1: getting a little better and a little better and a

1014
01:04:32,680 --> 01:04:39,520
Speaker 1: little better. Now we're all frustrated. Everybody's frustrated. And those

1015
01:04:39,600 --> 01:04:42,560
Speaker 1: of us now who have gotten to know Dennis Rodman.

1016
01:04:43,680 --> 01:04:46,360
Speaker 1: Back then people didn't know Dennis Roman. But you when

1017
01:04:46,400 --> 01:04:50,240
Speaker 1: you're a teammate, you know who this person really is,

1018
01:04:50,800 --> 01:04:55,480
Speaker 1: what upbringing is about, what his life is about, who

1019
01:04:55,560 --> 01:04:59,240
Speaker 1: his who his closest people in his life are about. Right,

1020
01:04:59,680 --> 01:05:04,800
Speaker 1: So Robbing makes the comment, we just got beat and

1021
01:05:05,280 --> 01:05:07,720
Speaker 1: you can yeah, you can see meet Chuckling kind of

1022
01:05:07,760 --> 01:05:10,960
Speaker 1: blowing off the comment like, yeah, you know, Robin if

1023
01:05:11,760 --> 01:05:15,800
Speaker 1: ha ha haha. And but here's the mistake that I made.

1024
01:05:17,200 --> 01:05:21,240
Speaker 1: The mistake that I made was that you're you're never

1025
01:05:21,360 --> 01:05:29,720
Speaker 1: supposed to repeat another person's quote. Right. So again, back then, Shannon,

1026
01:05:29,760 --> 01:05:31,760
Speaker 1: we didn't have media training and all that what we

1027
01:05:31,880 --> 01:05:36,000
Speaker 1: got right, Yeah, it was trial by five. Yeah, so

1028
01:05:36,560 --> 01:05:39,160
Speaker 1: now you know, Robin makes that and then I repeat

1029
01:05:39,200 --> 01:05:41,720
Speaker 1: this quote. Now it's like, oh, Isaiah said it. So

1030
01:05:41,840 --> 01:05:45,040
Speaker 1: everything that I was talking about in terms of stereotypes, labeling,

1031
01:05:45,120 --> 01:05:48,440
Speaker 1: theory and everything else that was going to be headlines

1032
01:05:48,480 --> 01:05:51,080
Speaker 1: and be talked about, now all of a sudden that

1033
01:05:51,200 --> 01:05:54,919
Speaker 1: narrative shifted and got changed, and we never really got

1034
01:05:54,920 --> 01:05:58,960
Speaker 1: to have the real conversations like we're still having today.

1035
01:05:59,320 --> 01:06:03,920
Speaker 1: You mentioned that at you and Magic Johnson are good friends.

1036
01:06:04,280 --> 01:06:06,960
Speaker 1: Is there a difference between Magic Johnson on the court

1037
01:06:07,520 --> 01:06:10,600
Speaker 1: and Irving Johnson off the court? Oh, Irvan Johnson, to

1038
01:06:10,720 --> 01:06:20,200
Speaker 1: give you anything, Matthew, put your throat. I mean that

1039
01:06:20,600 --> 01:06:23,640
Speaker 1: when when you're competing, and again, this is this is,

1040
01:06:24,120 --> 01:06:27,280
Speaker 1: this is what the general public failed to see about

1041
01:06:27,400 --> 01:06:32,720
Speaker 1: us as athletes in terms of competition. We can compete

1042
01:06:34,000 --> 01:06:37,720
Speaker 1: and be angry and and and and show all those

1043
01:06:37,760 --> 01:06:41,720
Speaker 1: emotions and passions and everything else that the sport brings

1044
01:06:41,800 --> 01:06:46,800
Speaker 1: out of us. That's what makes us good. But then

1045
01:06:46,880 --> 01:06:51,120
Speaker 1: when the game is over, we can go get the pizza, right,

1046
01:06:51,760 --> 01:06:55,120
Speaker 1: you know. And and that's to me, that's the compelling

1047
01:06:55,240 --> 01:06:58,760
Speaker 1: and fascinating thing about us as athletes. And I do

1048
01:06:58,880 --> 01:07:01,280
Speaker 1: think this is why a lot of athletes probably sometimes

1049
01:07:01,360 --> 01:07:05,720
Speaker 1: talk or reference themselves in the third person, because Shannon,

1050
01:07:05,760 --> 01:07:09,560
Speaker 1: you know the person that you are outside of the lines,

1051
01:07:09,880 --> 01:07:12,919
Speaker 1: the lines, you're a totally different person right now. You

1052
01:07:12,960 --> 01:07:17,680
Speaker 1: can't you can't you you can't carry you know, eighty

1053
01:07:17,720 --> 01:07:25,280
Speaker 1: four inside the lines? Howside lines you go? Absolutely not? Right?

1054
01:07:26,200 --> 01:07:29,280
Speaker 1: So who who did you love competing against the most

1055
01:07:29,680 --> 01:07:35,880
Speaker 1: of Magic? Larry, doctor j Kareem, whomever? Who is your

1056
01:07:36,280 --> 01:07:40,280
Speaker 1: Who did you love competing against the most? How? I

1057
01:07:40,400 --> 01:07:42,640
Speaker 1: have to say how? I have to say magic only

1058
01:07:42,680 --> 01:07:46,520
Speaker 1: because of the friendship, and then how smart he was?

1059
01:07:46,840 --> 01:07:52,160
Speaker 1: Right when you talk again, Magic Kareem, Bird doctor Jay,

1060
01:07:52,840 --> 01:07:56,320
Speaker 1: I mean them guys, I mean you, hey man, you

1061
01:07:56,320 --> 01:07:59,760
Speaker 1: you bring your books to school, you know, every day,

1062
01:07:59,760 --> 01:08:02,520
Speaker 1: and you coming too the classroom and you're taking notes

1063
01:08:02,560 --> 01:08:08,280
Speaker 1: because their intellect and they're understanding of play. Every time

1064
01:08:08,320 --> 01:08:11,439
Speaker 1: you made a mistake, they took advantage of it. So

1065
01:08:11,840 --> 01:08:15,600
Speaker 1: it'd be like if I was to give a football analogy.

1066
01:08:15,640 --> 01:08:19,839
Speaker 1: Now it's Tom Brady, right, you planning against Tom Brady.

1067
01:08:19,880 --> 01:08:23,280
Speaker 1: Ain't fast and everything. But you know what, every time

1068
01:08:23,360 --> 01:08:25,439
Speaker 1: you make a mistake, all right, you're gonna give me

1069
01:08:25,479 --> 01:08:28,439
Speaker 1: them five yards? Bam, I take them five? Right in?

1070
01:08:28,560 --> 01:08:31,080
Speaker 1: Five yards? All right'nna take them five. You don't give

1071
01:08:31,120 --> 01:08:34,160
Speaker 1: me them three yards? Okay, i'na take them three right. Oh,

1072
01:08:34,240 --> 01:08:37,360
Speaker 1: you're gonna give me them seven. I'm gonna take them seven. Right,

1073
01:08:37,479 --> 01:08:41,400
Speaker 1: So they pick you apart, and they're patient enough and

1074
01:08:41,560 --> 01:08:45,719
Speaker 1: discipline enough to do the right thing every single time.

1075
01:08:46,439 --> 01:08:50,840
Speaker 1: So learning from those guys, you know magic, I would

1076
01:08:50,840 --> 01:08:54,320
Speaker 1: say magic was because he and I played the same position,

1077
01:08:55,320 --> 01:08:59,280
Speaker 1: and he was eight inches taller and bigger, faster and

1078
01:08:59,400 --> 01:09:03,280
Speaker 1: everything else us. But the chess game that that we

1079
01:09:03,280 --> 01:09:06,680
Speaker 1: were played during the course of the game was always,

1080
01:09:06,720 --> 01:09:09,160
Speaker 1: you know, fascinating to me. So you're trying to make it,

1081
01:09:09,320 --> 01:09:11,920
Speaker 1: you're trying to make a person play the game from

1082
01:09:11,920 --> 01:09:14,639
Speaker 1: the neck up. I'm gonna take everything else. I'm gonna

1083
01:09:14,640 --> 01:09:17,000
Speaker 1: take everything else. Oude of the equation, we're gonna play

1084
01:09:17,000 --> 01:09:18,920
Speaker 1: this basketball game. I know we gotta put the ball

1085
01:09:18,920 --> 01:09:21,200
Speaker 1: into whop, but we're gonna play the game between from

1086
01:09:21,200 --> 01:09:23,679
Speaker 1: the neck up, and we're gonna see who gonna win. Yes,

1087
01:09:24,000 --> 01:09:29,360
Speaker 1: your genetics are a nun factor. Okay, right, you're you're

1088
01:09:29,439 --> 01:09:33,880
Speaker 1: you're blessed with the genetic gifts of size, height, and

1089
01:09:34,080 --> 01:09:36,960
Speaker 1: jumping ability. Okay, I'm gonna take all that and number

1090
01:09:36,960 --> 01:09:42,120
Speaker 1: eliminate that and and now now let's let's now let's

1091
01:09:42,240 --> 01:09:46,200
Speaker 1: play so and and and that takes that takes a

1092
01:09:46,200 --> 01:09:49,559
Speaker 1: lot of mental skill to be able to to maneuver

1093
01:09:49,720 --> 01:09:54,240
Speaker 1: in a game like that and and eliminate somebody's physicality.

1094
01:09:54,720 --> 01:09:57,880
Speaker 1: And now we're gonna play a mental chess game. When

1095
01:09:57,880 --> 01:09:59,559
Speaker 1: you walked away from the game, I said, what did

1096
01:09:59,600 --> 01:10:05,960
Speaker 1: you miss? Did you miss the game? I was fortunate

1097
01:10:06,080 --> 01:10:09,200
Speaker 1: enough to go right into owning a team in Toronto.

1098
01:10:09,720 --> 01:10:13,559
Speaker 1: Right physically, I knew I was done. My body was shot.

1099
01:10:13,720 --> 01:10:16,760
Speaker 1: I had nothing left. I didn't I didn't miss the

1100
01:10:16,800 --> 01:10:20,000
Speaker 1: game as much because now I was able to, Uh,

1101
01:10:20,080 --> 01:10:22,559
Speaker 1: if you were still around it, you just weren't playing. Yeah,

1102
01:10:22,640 --> 01:10:24,640
Speaker 1: I would still able to think about it, be be

1103
01:10:24,760 --> 01:10:28,680
Speaker 1: around it, be about it. Did you hang out with

1104
01:10:28,720 --> 01:10:30,840
Speaker 1: many players in the off season. Obviously you say, you

1105
01:10:30,840 --> 01:10:33,360
Speaker 1: imagine we're very good friends. Did you hang out with

1106
01:10:33,400 --> 01:10:36,160
Speaker 1: players in the off season? Now, I was in school,

1107
01:10:37,200 --> 01:10:41,080
Speaker 1: so you missed it. I left. I left in eighty one.

1108
01:10:41,920 --> 01:10:45,040
Speaker 1: I graduated in eighty seven. I went to summer school

1109
01:10:45,320 --> 01:10:49,920
Speaker 1: double sessions every year until I graduated. Okay, and that

1110
01:10:50,160 --> 01:10:53,160
Speaker 1: and that that little dance where you see me dancing

1111
01:10:53,200 --> 01:10:56,959
Speaker 1: around out that makes a shot, right, that was mother's day.

1112
01:10:57,439 --> 01:11:01,120
Speaker 1: I was graduating. And that day we beat the Atlanta Hawks,

1113
01:11:01,680 --> 01:11:04,280
Speaker 1: and my mother, who only had a third grade education,

1114
01:11:04,960 --> 01:11:07,640
Speaker 1: got to walk across the stage and my cap and

1115
01:11:07,760 --> 01:11:12,759
Speaker 1: gown at Indiana and graduate. Wow, there was a beautiful day.

1116
01:11:13,120 --> 01:11:17,240
Speaker 1: And then after that, you know, you know, I had

1117
01:11:17,280 --> 01:11:19,800
Speaker 1: a family, I had it so so hanging out and

1118
01:11:19,880 --> 01:11:23,000
Speaker 1: all that that was never me. I mean, I I

1119
01:11:23,120 --> 01:11:25,960
Speaker 1: really Most people don't know that, but I'm really. I

1120
01:11:26,040 --> 01:11:28,479
Speaker 1: was a nerd. I read a lot, still read a lot,

1121
01:11:29,080 --> 01:11:32,080
Speaker 1: went back to school, got my master's at at cow

1122
01:11:32,439 --> 01:11:36,599
Speaker 1: In Education University of California at Berkeley, got a master's

1123
01:11:36,680 --> 01:11:39,080
Speaker 1: education from there. So I've been in school, you know,

1124
01:11:39,479 --> 01:11:42,599
Speaker 1: all my life, going to school, learning, trying to get better.

1125
01:11:43,200 --> 01:11:45,880
Speaker 1: How do you react when people call you a dirty player.

1126
01:11:46,560 --> 01:11:51,960
Speaker 1: I laugh, I smile. See that's what they call They

1127
01:11:51,960 --> 01:11:54,640
Speaker 1: call you smiling assassin because they look at he be

1128
01:11:54,720 --> 01:11:58,160
Speaker 1: smiling and all the time he got you. Well, here,

1129
01:11:58,360 --> 01:12:00,920
Speaker 1: here's what here's what I learned on the West Side

1130
01:12:00,920 --> 01:12:06,080
Speaker 1: of Chicago being poor. I am not going to give

1131
01:12:06,160 --> 01:12:12,960
Speaker 1: you the power right two to judge me or be

1132
01:12:13,280 --> 01:12:19,080
Speaker 1: put your perceptions on me. Right, I'm confident and myself

1133
01:12:19,120 --> 01:12:23,439
Speaker 1: and knowing who I am, what I'm about, and that

1134
01:12:23,600 --> 01:12:28,240
Speaker 1: really comes from my poor experience of being shamed, right,

1135
01:12:28,880 --> 01:12:33,840
Speaker 1: and so coming into the NBA. You know, I got

1136
01:12:33,880 --> 01:12:38,040
Speaker 1: food in my refrigerator every day, you know, and most

1137
01:12:38,080 --> 01:12:43,760
Speaker 1: people don't understand how important that is. Oh absolutely I do. Right. So,

1138
01:12:44,360 --> 01:12:47,240
Speaker 1: the fact that I got food in my refrigerator, I

1139
01:12:47,240 --> 01:12:49,600
Speaker 1: could put gas in my car, and I got a

1140
01:12:49,680 --> 01:12:52,839
Speaker 1: roof over my head. Hey man, I made it. Everything

1141
01:12:52,880 --> 01:12:57,840
Speaker 1: else is you know, you know, on top, right, I

1142
01:12:57,960 --> 01:13:01,639
Speaker 1: feel Look, I know it was painful because you were

1143
01:13:01,640 --> 01:13:03,800
Speaker 1: on the Olympic team. You were. Let me look at this,

1144
01:13:03,840 --> 01:13:05,760
Speaker 1: make sure I get the track. You were a Male

1145
01:13:05,840 --> 01:13:09,560
Speaker 1: Athlete of the Year for the nine in nineteen eighty.

1146
01:13:09,920 --> 01:13:12,160
Speaker 1: You were gonna be on the Olympic team. It got

1147
01:13:12,160 --> 01:13:17,479
Speaker 1: boycotted the Soviet invaded Afghanistan. President Carter said, no, they're

1148
01:13:17,520 --> 01:13:20,439
Speaker 1: not going to show protests because and then, if I'm

1149
01:13:20,479 --> 01:13:23,120
Speaker 1: not mistaken, it was in it was a it was

1150
01:13:23,160 --> 01:13:25,160
Speaker 1: a Moscow, That's where it was. Yeah, it was in

1151
01:13:25,200 --> 01:13:28,000
Speaker 1: my scout And so they boy we boycotted them. They

1152
01:13:28,200 --> 01:13:31,080
Speaker 1: returned to favorite eighty four when it was in La

1153
01:13:31,800 --> 01:13:35,479
Speaker 1: all indication. Everybody says, you poll all the all the

1154
01:13:35,520 --> 01:13:39,080
Speaker 1: great who's the second greatest? But most people ninety five

1155
01:13:39,120 --> 01:13:41,000
Speaker 1: percent of ninety nine percent of people gonna say Matie

1156
01:13:41,040 --> 01:13:45,679
Speaker 1: Johns is the greatest point guard ever. The other Isaiah Thomas.

1157
01:13:46,640 --> 01:13:51,759
Speaker 1: So when the greatest collection supposedly of basketball players, and okay,

1158
01:13:52,000 --> 01:13:54,760
Speaker 1: will I agree with that twelve? What eleven of the

1159
01:13:54,760 --> 01:13:56,400
Speaker 1: twelve went to the Hall of Fame and the probable

1160
01:13:56,520 --> 01:13:59,800
Speaker 1: and the Basketball Hall of Fame? How does that make

1161
01:13:59,840 --> 01:14:04,280
Speaker 1: you feel? With everybody keeps saying Isaiah Thomas is Thomas

1162
01:14:04,400 --> 01:14:08,200
Speaker 1: is the second greatest point guard ever? But for that

1163
01:14:08,280 --> 01:14:11,240
Speaker 1: one year he wasn't worthy enough for being on the

1164
01:14:11,320 --> 01:14:14,320
Speaker 1: Dream Team because, as you mentioned, you won finals MVP,

1165
01:14:14,800 --> 01:14:18,040
Speaker 1: you're the most outstanding player, You're All Star Game MVP.

1166
01:14:18,479 --> 01:14:20,960
Speaker 1: You got a lot of credentials, and I've heard you

1167
01:14:21,040 --> 01:14:24,200
Speaker 1: saying it's the only thing that's on your resume that

1168
01:14:24,320 --> 01:14:31,519
Speaker 1: you feel that hasn't been filled in. Yeah, so I was.

1169
01:14:31,640 --> 01:14:36,760
Speaker 1: I was disappointed, you know, I was hurt. I was

1170
01:14:37,200 --> 01:14:39,960
Speaker 1: I was all of those range of emotions that you

1171
01:14:40,080 --> 01:14:43,799
Speaker 1: could think of, you know, mad, angry, all of those things.

1172
01:14:46,280 --> 01:14:51,120
Speaker 1: But then after that, you know, you root for the team,

1173
01:14:51,240 --> 01:14:53,840
Speaker 1: right you know that that that's how I've that's how

1174
01:14:53,880 --> 01:14:58,160
Speaker 1: I've grown up. You know I didn't make it, so

1175
01:14:58,640 --> 01:15:01,960
Speaker 1: I rooted for the USA. Yeah, I'll route too, I

1176
01:15:02,080 --> 01:15:04,680
Speaker 1: bet you. I know you want to. But I was yeah, no, no,

1177
01:15:05,080 --> 01:15:07,320
Speaker 1: no I'm not. I'm not trying to downplay it and

1178
01:15:07,960 --> 01:15:10,960
Speaker 1: and I'm not trying to blow past it. I do

1179
01:15:11,080 --> 01:15:13,960
Speaker 1: want you to know, Yeah, I went through all those emotions.

1180
01:15:14,800 --> 01:15:18,639
Speaker 1: But again, Shannon, where I came from, right, right, I came.

1181
01:15:19,880 --> 01:15:23,080
Speaker 1: I came from the dirt and less than the dirt.

1182
01:15:24,080 --> 01:15:31,280
Speaker 1: So so having disappointment all my life, being disappointed again,

1183
01:15:32,240 --> 01:15:35,080
Speaker 1: you know, dealing with death and everything. I mean, you

1184
01:15:35,120 --> 01:15:38,200
Speaker 1: know I was going to funerals and every week, so

1185
01:15:38,560 --> 01:15:40,960
Speaker 1: it one no more tears left, right, you know what

1186
01:15:41,000 --> 01:15:43,920
Speaker 1: I mean? The way I was growing up. So now

1187
01:15:44,000 --> 01:15:48,960
Speaker 1: that I didn't make the Dream Team. You know, that's

1188
01:15:49,000 --> 01:15:53,080
Speaker 1: another hurt. But it ain't. It ain't. It ain't stopping

1189
01:15:53,200 --> 01:15:56,400
Speaker 1: my life, you know what I mean it? But yeah,

1190
01:15:56,479 --> 01:15:58,519
Speaker 1: did I want to be a part? Did I? Did

1191
01:15:58,560 --> 01:16:01,120
Speaker 1: I deserve to be a part? Yeah? All that is true,

1192
01:16:01,520 --> 01:16:05,280
Speaker 1: But the fact is I wasn't. And so now you

1193
01:16:05,360 --> 01:16:08,639
Speaker 1: gotta you gotta get up, you gotta get up. Watch

1194
01:16:09,080 --> 01:16:11,559
Speaker 1: did you watch the Last Dance? Yeah? I watched it.

1195
01:16:11,600 --> 01:16:14,600
Speaker 1: I watched it. I watched it with great fascination, and

1196
01:16:14,640 --> 01:16:18,599
Speaker 1: I watched it with great disappointment because because you heard

1197
01:16:18,640 --> 01:16:21,920
Speaker 1: a lot of the guys chime in and say, well,

1198
01:16:21,960 --> 01:16:24,800
Speaker 1: Isaiah did it to himself, and nobody wanted to play

1199
01:16:24,840 --> 01:16:27,639
Speaker 1: with Isaiah. But I've heard so many of these other

1200
01:16:27,680 --> 01:16:31,439
Speaker 1: players say, you don't have to be the best of friends.

1201
01:16:32,200 --> 01:16:35,080
Speaker 1: If the common goal is about winning, well, the common

1202
01:16:35,120 --> 01:16:37,479
Speaker 1: goal was about winning the gold medal. Well, if the

1203
01:16:37,520 --> 01:16:39,960
Speaker 1: common goal is about winning the gold medal, who cared

1204
01:16:40,000 --> 01:16:45,400
Speaker 1: if your best friend with Isaiah? Hey, you know what,

1205
01:16:45,479 --> 01:16:50,200
Speaker 1: I agree with you. I'm just using what Isaiah. I'm

1206
01:16:50,240 --> 01:16:53,000
Speaker 1: just using what they say. They say you do not

1207
01:16:53,200 --> 01:16:56,679
Speaker 1: have to be best friends with a teammate. You don't

1208
01:16:56,680 --> 01:16:58,439
Speaker 1: have to go out to dinner. We don't have to

1209
01:16:58,439 --> 01:17:00,439
Speaker 1: go to the movies. We ain't got to ring out

1210
01:17:00,439 --> 01:17:03,080
Speaker 1: wives and kids together. All we're trying to do is

1211
01:17:03,120 --> 01:17:06,240
Speaker 1: win a title. So you mean to tell me, even

1212
01:17:06,240 --> 01:17:09,240
Speaker 1: though you might not have liked Isaiah, you couldn't set

1213
01:17:09,320 --> 01:17:12,120
Speaker 1: that aside to win a gold medal. So now it

1214
01:17:12,200 --> 01:17:14,800
Speaker 1: matters if you get along, whereas before you're telling me

1215
01:17:14,840 --> 01:17:16,800
Speaker 1: as long as you win a championship. Because it's hard

1216
01:17:16,800 --> 01:17:19,519
Speaker 1: for me to bleed. I know I played the team sport.

1217
01:17:19,920 --> 01:17:23,439
Speaker 1: Everybody on a fifty three man roster ain't friends and

1218
01:17:23,479 --> 01:17:27,160
Speaker 1: they ain't friendly. So this notion that you need to

1219
01:17:27,200 --> 01:17:29,479
Speaker 1: be best of friends, hold on, y'all ain't known like

1220
01:17:29,560 --> 01:17:32,080
Speaker 1: y'all all hanging out. Oh you know, we're going overseas

1221
01:17:32,160 --> 01:17:35,040
Speaker 1: and so everybody's out every night together. I'm sure you're

1222
01:17:35,040 --> 01:17:37,439
Speaker 1: gonna have your wife and kids. Y'all probably would have

1223
01:17:37,439 --> 01:17:40,280
Speaker 1: been touring Barcelona and doing your thing just like everybody

1224
01:17:40,280 --> 01:17:43,519
Speaker 1: else was doing their thing. I don't That's that's one

1225
01:17:43,520 --> 01:17:46,120
Speaker 1: of the problems that I have because I followed the

1226
01:17:46,160 --> 01:17:49,240
Speaker 1: game for a long long time, Bailla, and I say,

1227
01:17:49,280 --> 01:17:52,280
Speaker 1: I don't care what y'all tell me. Isaiah was one

1228
01:17:52,320 --> 01:17:55,800
Speaker 1: of the twelve best players in the NBA at the time. Well,

1229
01:17:56,000 --> 01:17:58,040
Speaker 1: he ain't the all time assists leader, I said. John

1230
01:17:58,080 --> 01:18:00,840
Speaker 1: Stockton wasn't at that time either. He came that I'm

1231
01:18:00,880 --> 01:18:03,959
Speaker 1: talking about at that moment when they're making that selection.

1232
01:18:04,280 --> 01:18:06,439
Speaker 1: Isaiah Thomas was one of the best players. And you

1233
01:18:06,479 --> 01:18:10,559
Speaker 1: can't convince me otherwise. His resumes say so. But they

1234
01:18:10,640 --> 01:18:14,800
Speaker 1: let personal feelings get involved in this isilla. Well, after

1235
01:18:14,880 --> 01:18:18,360
Speaker 1: watching Last Dance, it just you know, and we won't

1236
01:18:18,400 --> 01:18:21,160
Speaker 1: dance around it here, Oh don't dance around me and

1237
01:18:21,200 --> 01:18:23,439
Speaker 1: let you do it. It seems like there was only

1238
01:18:23,479 --> 01:18:27,160
Speaker 1: one person that had a problem with it, right, and

1239
01:18:27,600 --> 01:18:31,320
Speaker 1: that was Jordan. Now I didn't at that time. I

1240
01:18:31,320 --> 01:18:36,000
Speaker 1: didn't realize and even even until I watched the Last Dance,

1241
01:18:36,880 --> 01:18:39,840
Speaker 1: I didn't realize that he felt the way he felt

1242
01:18:39,920 --> 01:18:44,479
Speaker 1: about me, because again, Shannon, I, I had never had

1243
01:18:44,520 --> 01:18:47,719
Speaker 1: no no you know, dad words with him or anything

1244
01:18:47,760 --> 01:18:51,320
Speaker 1: like that. We played, you know, his team won and

1245
01:18:51,400 --> 01:18:53,240
Speaker 1: my team won. We went on home and they went

1246
01:18:53,240 --> 01:18:56,360
Speaker 1: on again. We didn't how to enter that and as

1247
01:18:56,400 --> 01:19:00,120
Speaker 1: you can see when I saw when I saw in

1248
01:19:00,200 --> 01:19:04,160
Speaker 1: terms of the Chicago Bulls, you know, all night life

1249
01:19:04,240 --> 01:19:10,720
Speaker 1: wasn't as good as we were, you know, we weren't.

1250
01:19:10,760 --> 01:19:13,800
Speaker 1: You know that that's not how we we we and

1251
01:19:13,840 --> 01:19:17,320
Speaker 1: I got down, you know, right, so most of and

1252
01:19:17,320 --> 01:19:20,719
Speaker 1: when I look at that dream Team, right I had

1253
01:19:21,040 --> 01:19:23,680
Speaker 1: I mean, we we we knew each other. But the

1254
01:19:23,680 --> 01:19:26,560
Speaker 1: only person that I really knew on the Dream Team

1255
01:19:26,920 --> 01:19:31,800
Speaker 1: what magic and personal relationship because again, you know, I

1256
01:19:31,840 --> 01:19:35,400
Speaker 1: was in school, you know, I was, I was married,

1257
01:19:35,400 --> 01:19:37,960
Speaker 1: I was doing my thing. I wasn't you know, I wasn't.

1258
01:19:38,000 --> 01:19:41,160
Speaker 1: I wasn't hanging out like trying to be friends and

1259
01:19:41,439 --> 01:19:48,160
Speaker 1: all that stuff. So there's nothing so and so you believe,

1260
01:19:48,640 --> 01:19:51,599
Speaker 1: you believe, I mean after watching that that the one

1261
01:19:51,640 --> 01:19:54,719
Speaker 1: guy that had a problem with you was the reason

1262
01:19:55,280 --> 01:19:57,360
Speaker 1: that you weren't on the team. I'm just going by

1263
01:19:57,479 --> 01:20:02,080
Speaker 1: what he said. I mean that that's what that's what

1264
01:20:02,200 --> 01:20:04,760
Speaker 1: the you know, that's what the tape said. That's what

1265
01:20:04,880 --> 01:20:08,120
Speaker 1: he said. And that's you know, and and you know,

1266
01:20:08,880 --> 01:20:12,360
Speaker 1: because a lot of a lot of people forget I said.

1267
01:20:12,400 --> 01:20:16,080
Speaker 1: They said, well, because when you had beaten them the

1268
01:20:16,160 --> 01:20:18,960
Speaker 1: previous you beat them four one, four two four three,

1269
01:20:19,000 --> 01:20:22,519
Speaker 1: and they finally broke through and they beat you guys,

1270
01:20:22,880 --> 01:20:25,639
Speaker 1: And they said that each time that you beat them,

1271
01:20:25,680 --> 01:20:27,920
Speaker 1: they shook your hand. But I don't know if people

1272
01:20:27,960 --> 01:20:31,720
Speaker 1: remember this. In eighty eight, when you beat the Celtics,

1273
01:20:32,000 --> 01:20:35,920
Speaker 1: they walked off the court and they didn't shake your hand. Yeah,

1274
01:20:35,960 --> 01:20:38,360
Speaker 1: you remember that, I said, But yeah, I remember that,

1275
01:20:38,720 --> 01:20:44,559
Speaker 1: and so so. But nobody said hold on. Nobody said

1276
01:20:44,680 --> 01:20:49,719
Speaker 1: a word about that. It was only became an issue

1277
01:20:50,360 --> 01:20:52,960
Speaker 1: when you guys walked off the court and didn't shake

1278
01:20:53,120 --> 01:20:56,519
Speaker 1: And look, I'm not excusing what you did. But if

1279
01:20:56,520 --> 01:20:58,960
Speaker 1: you didn't have a problem with it three four years earlier,

1280
01:20:59,160 --> 01:21:02,040
Speaker 1: why you got a problem with it now? Yeah, and

1281
01:21:02,040 --> 01:21:06,040
Speaker 1: and and so yeah, when the Celtics walked off, Right,

1282
01:21:08,160 --> 01:21:13,120
Speaker 1: here's the difference. We as the Pistons, we never made

1283
01:21:13,120 --> 01:21:18,639
Speaker 1: a big deal, right, Celtics walking off not shaking all hands.

1284
01:21:19,400 --> 01:21:24,120
Speaker 1: They were champions and they deserved to to to go

1285
01:21:24,200 --> 01:21:27,200
Speaker 1: out how they want to. Yeah, and and and we

1286
01:21:27,240 --> 01:21:30,080
Speaker 1: were thankful and grateful for the lessons that they taught.

1287
01:21:30,560 --> 01:21:33,800
Speaker 1: And now we go on to try to beat somebody else. Right.

1288
01:21:33,880 --> 01:21:36,960
Speaker 1: We never we never sat around and said, oh, you know,

1289
01:21:37,040 --> 01:21:40,320
Speaker 1: Michael and Michael and I are good friends still today, right,

1290
01:21:40,640 --> 01:21:43,679
Speaker 1: And and before Dennis Johnson and all of them guys,

1291
01:21:43,880 --> 01:21:46,920
Speaker 1: before Dennis Johnson passed and you know, Larry and I

1292
01:21:47,040 --> 01:21:49,439
Speaker 1: we see each other today and it's still cool. But

1293
01:21:49,520 --> 01:21:54,920
Speaker 1: we never we never said wow, they didn't shake our hand.

1294
01:21:55,080 --> 01:21:58,160
Speaker 1: What poor sports and we never did that. It was like, okay,

1295
01:21:58,200 --> 01:22:02,360
Speaker 1: they were they were champions, they were ing and we

1296
01:22:02,520 --> 01:22:05,599
Speaker 1: moved on the The other thing that that I would

1297
01:22:05,640 --> 01:22:12,160
Speaker 1: say is the the night before, now we're down three

1298
01:22:12,280 --> 01:22:17,920
Speaker 1: zero in the series. You've heard me speak glowingly about

1299
01:22:17,960 --> 01:22:23,280
Speaker 1: the Celtics and the Lakers as champions and when we

1300
01:22:23,280 --> 01:22:25,600
Speaker 1: were getting ready to beat them, and we knew we

1301
01:22:25,680 --> 01:22:29,960
Speaker 1: had the better team and they were going down. We

1302
01:22:30,000 --> 01:22:33,759
Speaker 1: wasn't the day before talking about how they were bad

1303
01:22:33,800 --> 01:22:35,599
Speaker 1: and they were dead. So they were right, they're bad

1304
01:22:35,640 --> 01:22:39,720
Speaker 1: for the NBA, Yes, we gave them their respect. Right now,

1305
01:22:40,000 --> 01:22:45,880
Speaker 1: Jordan's before you know, before you know, they swept us,

1306
01:22:46,560 --> 01:22:48,960
Speaker 1: you know, the night before, you know, he has this

1307
01:22:49,640 --> 01:22:54,960
Speaker 1: big press conference where he annihilates our team. And the

1308
01:22:55,000 --> 01:22:58,519
Speaker 1: one thing that really, you know, hit us hard is

1309
01:22:58,560 --> 01:23:06,599
Speaker 1: when he called us undeserving champions. Now you won Super Bowls,

1310
01:23:07,320 --> 01:23:12,760
Speaker 1: you're in a champion. Yeah. Now imagine someone saying that

1311
01:23:13,600 --> 01:23:18,520
Speaker 1: what you earned and what you did you were undeserving

1312
01:23:18,600 --> 01:23:21,880
Speaker 1: of it. And by the way, it wasn't a coach,

1313
01:23:22,040 --> 01:23:26,040
Speaker 1: it wasn't a media person. It was one of your peers, right,

1314
01:23:27,040 --> 01:23:29,479
Speaker 1: what made why do you think you said that? What

1315
01:23:29,560 --> 01:23:36,599
Speaker 1: made you guys so undeserving? I don't know. These are

1316
01:23:36,680 --> 01:23:41,400
Speaker 1: questions that that that you have to ask him right now.

1317
01:23:41,439 --> 01:23:43,120
Speaker 1: All I can do is speak for us and speak

1318
01:23:43,120 --> 01:23:48,679
Speaker 1: for the Detroit Pistons. So you know when we when

1319
01:23:48,960 --> 01:23:52,880
Speaker 1: when we walked off and Lamber said, I'm not shaking

1320
01:23:52,880 --> 01:23:56,080
Speaker 1: their hands, and this is how we rolle. We rode

1321
01:23:56,120 --> 01:24:00,360
Speaker 1: as a team. We rolled a you know, it's one

1322
01:24:00,400 --> 01:24:03,920
Speaker 1: for all, all for one, you know, and Lamb Beer

1323
01:24:04,080 --> 01:24:06,240
Speaker 1: was like, this is what we're doing, so you fall

1324
01:24:06,320 --> 01:24:09,280
Speaker 1: in line, and that's right. I didn't None of us

1325
01:24:09,360 --> 01:24:12,320
Speaker 1: knew that, and that the camera would be on you.

1326
01:24:12,400 --> 01:24:14,800
Speaker 1: And this is supposed to be a passing at a

1327
01:24:14,880 --> 01:24:18,800
Speaker 1: torch shanning. That that is some bs ain't never been

1328
01:24:19,280 --> 01:24:24,040
Speaker 1: torch passed and glorious moment and all right, all that

1329
01:24:24,240 --> 01:24:28,680
Speaker 1: narrative around that was just total made up BS to

1330
01:24:28,800 --> 01:24:32,759
Speaker 1: make one team or one player look bad and another

1331
01:24:32,800 --> 01:24:36,280
Speaker 1: one looked good. That was it. I said, I know

1332
01:24:36,400 --> 01:24:38,439
Speaker 1: you you work for NBA TV, and I know you

1333
01:24:38,520 --> 01:24:41,600
Speaker 1: still follow the game. What player you think reminds you

1334
01:24:41,680 --> 01:24:49,920
Speaker 1: of yourself, who plays the game like Izaiah Thomas. I'll

1335
01:24:49,920 --> 01:24:52,840
Speaker 1: put to you this way. I like watching Kyrie Irving playing.

1336
01:24:53,080 --> 01:24:59,040
Speaker 1: That's what I like. I like watching Steph Curry play now.

1337
01:24:59,080 --> 01:25:01,040
Speaker 1: I don't know if I play as good as there,

1338
01:25:02,080 --> 01:25:06,960
Speaker 1: but I like watching too, right. I always thought that,

1339
01:25:07,200 --> 01:25:09,960
Speaker 1: and I looked at I looked at our air, and

1340
01:25:10,000 --> 01:25:14,759
Speaker 1: I looked at myself as as very unique. I looked

1341
01:25:14,760 --> 01:25:18,520
Speaker 1: at myself as a player, you know, as a picasso,

1342
01:25:18,680 --> 01:25:23,200
Speaker 1: as as an original, right, And and so I'll I'll

1343
01:25:23,200 --> 01:25:27,479
Speaker 1: go back to those five players that we named earlier, Kareem,

1344
01:25:28,560 --> 01:25:35,280
Speaker 1: Magic Bird, Doctor j Michael Jordan. Okay, none of them

1345
01:25:35,280 --> 01:25:41,240
Speaker 1: played like each other. Everybody was kind of an original, right,

1346
01:25:41,920 --> 01:25:44,439
Speaker 1: And when I came into the NBA, I looked at

1347
01:25:44,479 --> 01:25:47,200
Speaker 1: myself as an original. So when I look at the

1348
01:25:47,280 --> 01:25:50,840
Speaker 1: NBA right now, I do see some guys carving out

1349
01:25:50,880 --> 01:25:54,559
Speaker 1: their originality in their own space. Right. I think Steph

1350
01:25:54,640 --> 01:25:57,240
Speaker 1: Curry has done it. I think Kyrie has done it.

1351
01:25:58,320 --> 01:26:01,519
Speaker 1: Other guards they're still they're still trying to get there,

1352
01:26:01,920 --> 01:26:03,920
Speaker 1: you know. And I'm talking about now. Somebody says, oh,

1353
01:26:03,920 --> 01:26:05,680
Speaker 1: you don't like hard now that Nah, that ain't what

1354
01:26:05,720 --> 01:26:09,240
Speaker 1: I'm saying. I'm saying when you look at you know,

1355
01:26:10,840 --> 01:26:13,479
Speaker 1: guys that have done things that I just haven't seen,

1356
01:26:13,760 --> 01:26:16,760
Speaker 1: Like some stuffing that Kyrie do with the basketball, I

1357
01:26:16,800 --> 01:26:22,479
Speaker 1: haven't seen that. Like you got on the screen at times,

1358
01:26:22,800 --> 01:26:24,960
Speaker 1: it's a little different. It looked like he looked like

1359
01:26:25,000 --> 01:26:28,160
Speaker 1: he looked like he dancing ready to something. Right. Let

1360
01:26:28,240 --> 01:26:31,800
Speaker 1: me ask you this because I find it sometimes in

1361
01:26:31,880 --> 01:26:35,240
Speaker 1: my profession and guys in my era, Why is it

1362
01:26:35,320 --> 01:26:39,240
Speaker 1: so hard from grades of one ever era to give

1363
01:26:39,320 --> 01:26:42,360
Speaker 1: credit to grades of another era? Oh he couldn't have

1364
01:26:42,360 --> 01:26:44,400
Speaker 1: played in my era. Oh he wouldn't have done that

1365
01:26:44,479 --> 01:26:48,280
Speaker 1: in my Why is it so hard? It's okay, It's

1366
01:26:48,360 --> 01:26:50,719
Speaker 1: it's okay. But some of it is true, Shannon. There

1367
01:26:50,760 --> 01:26:52,439
Speaker 1: are a lot of guys who play in the NFL

1368
01:26:52,560 --> 01:26:55,479
Speaker 1: right now. They run across the middle of free Oh yeah, yeah,

1369
01:26:55,479 --> 01:26:57,880
Speaker 1: the rules are differ. Oh yeah, absolutely. And you know

1370
01:26:58,360 --> 01:27:01,680
Speaker 1: there are some guys who are runnings that middle right now. Yes,

1371
01:27:01,960 --> 01:27:04,080
Speaker 1: And when you was playing, ain't no where in the

1372
01:27:04,080 --> 01:27:06,120
Speaker 1: hell they was going across the middle. They would they

1373
01:27:06,120 --> 01:27:10,400
Speaker 1: would definitely think twice before going in there with no caution.

1374
01:27:11,640 --> 01:27:15,479
Speaker 1: Ain't no thing twice. But even as the case do, Izaia.

1375
01:27:15,920 --> 01:27:20,280
Speaker 1: You still will give credit when credits do you You

1376
01:27:20,320 --> 01:27:22,800
Speaker 1: don't you know, if a guy's good, You're like, you

1377
01:27:22,840 --> 01:27:25,439
Speaker 1: don't make it about the era. You say you could

1378
01:27:25,479 --> 01:27:27,640
Speaker 1: only do in the era what you're doing it in

1379
01:27:28,200 --> 01:27:31,200
Speaker 1: what you do, and and and so I look at

1380
01:27:31,200 --> 01:27:34,640
Speaker 1: this era, and I say, I see some of the

1381
01:27:34,680 --> 01:27:41,599
Speaker 1: most skilled, unbelievable shop makers. Yes, that I that I

1382
01:27:41,640 --> 01:27:46,719
Speaker 1: have ever seen. Yes, you know the stuff that Kevin

1383
01:27:47,280 --> 01:27:52,040
Speaker 1: I've never seen. There was no Kevin Durant in my era. Right,

1384
01:27:52,400 --> 01:27:55,360
Speaker 1: seven feet tall, shaking it, shooting it from the death.

1385
01:27:56,400 --> 01:27:58,680
Speaker 1: I ain't seen that, right. I'm gonna tell you who

1386
01:27:58,720 --> 01:28:04,000
Speaker 1: else this porzingis right? Ain't ain't no seven three dude?

1387
01:28:04,600 --> 01:28:09,400
Speaker 1: Then I've seen you is doing right? Okay, Steph Curry

1388
01:28:09,439 --> 01:28:14,200
Speaker 1: stepping out. I mean this is like pressure time in

1389
01:28:14,240 --> 01:28:17,200
Speaker 1: the game him they Klay Thompson put it from the

1390
01:28:17,320 --> 01:28:23,240
Speaker 1: hash mother. Yes, yes, hadn't seen it. So the step

1391
01:28:23,280 --> 01:28:26,680
Speaker 1: back three, Isaiah, it's I mean, because what used to

1392
01:28:26,720 --> 01:28:29,120
Speaker 1: be a bad shot, So don't take that shot. We

1393
01:28:29,160 --> 01:28:33,040
Speaker 1: can get a better shot. You're encouraging guys. Now, guys

1394
01:28:33,040 --> 01:28:37,400
Speaker 1: are taking two dribbles past half court and letting it fly. Yeah.

1395
01:28:37,479 --> 01:28:41,120
Speaker 1: So this now you've seen it before in the in

1396
01:28:41,200 --> 01:28:44,160
Speaker 1: the rect League, go in the park, yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

1397
01:28:44,200 --> 01:28:48,240
Speaker 1: but yeah, but in the real game, Yes, in the

1398
01:28:48,280 --> 01:28:53,519
Speaker 1: real game, it's like I hadn't seen it. You know,

1399
01:28:53,560 --> 01:28:57,040
Speaker 1: all Star games, Isailla. Guys, you put all your stuff

1400
01:28:57,080 --> 01:28:59,360
Speaker 1: on this play, you drill a little bit, you pull

1401
01:28:59,520 --> 01:29:02,320
Speaker 1: up from you for thirty three. They do this in

1402
01:29:02,400 --> 01:29:05,200
Speaker 1: a regular game. Yeah, but really they do this in

1403
01:29:05,240 --> 01:29:08,600
Speaker 1: a playoff game. Guy, letting hash mark three's goals in

1404
01:29:08,640 --> 01:29:13,120
Speaker 1: a playoff game. Yeah. So we the NBA right now,

1405
01:29:13,240 --> 01:29:17,599
Speaker 1: skill wise, it's the best skill I've ever ever ever seen.

1406
01:29:18,040 --> 01:29:21,000
Speaker 1: You know, right now, I'm not talking low post game

1407
01:29:21,040 --> 01:29:23,120
Speaker 1: because the low post game is the worst low post

1408
01:29:23,200 --> 01:29:27,439
Speaker 1: game ever. Yeah. Player, you gotta be able to shoot three. Yeah, now,

1409
01:29:27,640 --> 01:29:29,960
Speaker 1: this is the this is the best we've ever seen it.

1410
01:29:30,280 --> 01:29:36,120
Speaker 1: Right now. This also is the worst defense I've ever

1411
01:29:36,160 --> 01:29:38,960
Speaker 1: seen in the NBA. Well, they don't want you to play.

1412
01:29:38,960 --> 01:29:41,920
Speaker 1: These people won't score now there. They don't want eighty

1413
01:29:41,960 --> 01:29:44,720
Speaker 1: five ninety game, you know, they want one, fifteen, one,

1414
01:29:44,920 --> 01:29:48,280
Speaker 1: twenty two. But I got a critique it now talking

1415
01:29:48,320 --> 01:29:50,840
Speaker 1: about the Pistons and you talk about the bad boys. Yes,

1416
01:29:51,200 --> 01:29:54,400
Speaker 1: we was putting up one twelve one team one oh seven,

1417
01:29:54,439 --> 01:29:57,160
Speaker 1: one h eight. The Lakers was putting it up. Seltis

1418
01:29:57,240 --> 01:30:01,000
Speaker 1: was putting it up, you know, not at ninety Again,

1419
01:30:01,080 --> 01:30:03,000
Speaker 1: everybody want to put the bad boys in the ninth

1420
01:30:03,040 --> 01:30:04,760
Speaker 1: That wasn't us. That was the New York Knicks with

1421
01:30:04,880 --> 01:30:07,599
Speaker 1: pat Riley in the Miami Heat and the Miami Heat,

1422
01:30:07,640 --> 01:30:11,760
Speaker 1: that wasn't us. Right, It's like everybody wants to be

1423
01:30:11,960 --> 01:30:16,360
Speaker 1: the bad boys and act like the Pistons. Teams can

1424
01:30:16,439 --> 01:30:19,840
Speaker 1: emulate us. We just can't be ourselves because they say

1425
01:30:19,880 --> 01:30:25,240
Speaker 1: it's bad when we're the Pistons. I've heard you on

1426
01:30:25,280 --> 01:30:29,640
Speaker 1: several occasions. He praised on Lebron James. How impressive is

1427
01:30:29,640 --> 01:30:31,840
Speaker 1: what he's doing at the age of thirty five and

1428
01:30:31,920 --> 01:30:35,320
Speaker 1: year seventeen, with all the miles, with all the minutes,

1429
01:30:35,400 --> 01:30:37,920
Speaker 1: with all the playoff games, with all the games under

1430
01:30:37,920 --> 01:30:41,639
Speaker 1: his belt, he's still playing as if he's the best player,

1431
01:30:41,720 --> 01:30:44,200
Speaker 1: which I do believe that he is still currently the

1432
01:30:44,240 --> 01:30:46,160
Speaker 1: best player in the NBA. How is he doing this?

1433
01:30:47,080 --> 01:30:51,600
Speaker 1: We have never seen in the NBA a player like

1434
01:30:51,760 --> 01:30:56,679
Speaker 1: Lebron James, and he breaks a record every single night.

1435
01:30:57,479 --> 01:31:03,240
Speaker 1: Just to remind you that you've never seen this before, right,

1436
01:31:04,000 --> 01:31:06,360
Speaker 1: Some people will some people will have a record and

1437
01:31:06,360 --> 01:31:11,000
Speaker 1: they've dominating one category. But this dude is dominating. He's

1438
01:31:11,040 --> 01:31:17,240
Speaker 1: in the top ten, Shannon and and everything that ain't

1439
01:31:17,680 --> 01:31:23,400
Speaker 1: that's never happened right in and in from the guard

1440
01:31:23,479 --> 01:31:27,160
Speaker 1: position or the wing position in our sport. Right, and

1441
01:31:27,240 --> 01:31:30,640
Speaker 1: it's all said and done, It's gonna be hard for

1442
01:31:30,680 --> 01:31:35,120
Speaker 1: people to look back ten years from now and say

1443
01:31:35,640 --> 01:31:41,320
Speaker 1: he wasn't the best, because you can have your emotional best, right,

1444
01:31:42,400 --> 01:31:46,439
Speaker 1: But what this guy's doing and what he's been doing,

1445
01:31:47,640 --> 01:31:52,760
Speaker 1: I'll put you this way. In football, right, remember when

1446
01:31:52,760 --> 01:31:58,600
Speaker 1: you first saw both Jackson, Yes I do okay, And

1447
01:31:59,080 --> 01:32:02,799
Speaker 1: imagine if both Jackson would have stayed healthy, it still

1448
01:32:02,960 --> 01:32:08,160
Speaker 1: kept getting better, right, Lebron James, And there's never been

1449
01:32:08,200 --> 01:32:11,639
Speaker 1: a freak in football. There's been similar, but they ain't

1450
01:32:11,680 --> 01:32:15,519
Speaker 1: never been a freak like Bo Jackson. No, well, we

1451
01:32:15,680 --> 01:32:18,320
Speaker 1: got a freak in basketball. And I ain't talking about

1452
01:32:18,320 --> 01:32:23,360
Speaker 1: the Greek win. I'm talking about the American and Lebron James.

1453
01:32:24,040 --> 01:32:30,160
Speaker 1: We have never seen this type of athlete, body performance,

1454
01:32:30,240 --> 01:32:36,360
Speaker 1: consistency from a guy this loan just haven't seen it.

1455
01:32:37,920 --> 01:32:40,360
Speaker 1: You're following again, you following the game closely. The Lagers

1456
01:32:40,400 --> 01:32:44,600
Speaker 1: about to play and playing a little while. Who do

1457
01:32:44,600 --> 01:32:46,240
Speaker 1: you like? Who do you gotta pick a team? You

1458
01:32:46,240 --> 01:32:52,280
Speaker 1: gotta handicap this. You know, I'm a fan of the

1459
01:32:52,360 --> 01:32:57,080
Speaker 1: little guys, so I still I still, you know, emotionally

1460
01:32:57,320 --> 01:33:00,559
Speaker 1: I'm tugged for, you know, Harden and West because I

1461
01:33:00,600 --> 01:33:04,599
Speaker 1: do want in the work. Yes, but like I've been

1462
01:33:04,640 --> 01:33:08,920
Speaker 1: saying throughout this show, when the guy's bigger, faster and stronger,

1463
01:33:09,720 --> 01:33:12,680
Speaker 1: that guy's gonna win. And you're the only thing you

1464
01:33:12,720 --> 01:33:16,360
Speaker 1: can depend on. The only advantage you may have is

1465
01:33:16,400 --> 01:33:21,880
Speaker 1: if that guy makes a mistake, right, Lebron James, he

1466
01:33:21,920 --> 01:33:26,040
Speaker 1: ain't making no mistakes right, So you know he's gonna

1467
01:33:26,080 --> 01:33:30,120
Speaker 1: beat the smaller player most of the time. Because the

1468
01:33:30,120 --> 01:33:31,840
Speaker 1: thing is that when you look at Harden, and that's

1469
01:33:31,840 --> 01:33:33,960
Speaker 1: a nice style of play, but so many things have

1470
01:33:34,080 --> 01:33:36,719
Speaker 1: to go right, I sail think about it. They made

1471
01:33:36,760 --> 01:33:39,760
Speaker 1: twenty two threes and they still only have a little

1472
01:33:39,760 --> 01:33:43,000
Speaker 1: over one hundred points. James, Harden and Russ Go both

1473
01:33:43,040 --> 01:33:46,800
Speaker 1: go for sixty over sixty combine and they barely and

1474
01:33:46,840 --> 01:33:49,479
Speaker 1: they barely have one hundred points. Well, when you playing

1475
01:33:49,560 --> 01:33:52,280
Speaker 1: that kind of basketball and you still not winning, They're like,

1476
01:33:52,400 --> 01:33:58,800
Speaker 1: what else can I do. That's how I used to

1477
01:33:58,800 --> 01:34:06,400
Speaker 1: come home some nights after playing against Magic a bird. Hey, hey, coach,

1478
01:34:06,600 --> 01:34:09,960
Speaker 1: we had twenty two threes, they still beat us by eight. Coach,

1479
01:34:10,080 --> 01:34:12,400
Speaker 1: we had two guys go our two stars go off,

1480
01:34:12,720 --> 01:34:15,040
Speaker 1: and they still beat us by double figure. What else? Now?

1481
01:34:15,080 --> 01:34:19,559
Speaker 1: What what are returning to now? Yeah? It ain't working

1482
01:34:21,360 --> 01:34:26,160
Speaker 1: of all. John Elway was my quarterback and talking to

1483
01:34:26,200 --> 01:34:28,000
Speaker 1: him Ozzy Newson, who was a good friend of mine.

1484
01:34:28,040 --> 01:34:30,120
Speaker 1: He played the tight end position. He was a great

1485
01:34:30,200 --> 01:34:32,400
Speaker 1: exact for twenty years with the Ravens, drafted a lot

1486
01:34:32,400 --> 01:34:35,559
Speaker 1: of Hall of Fame players, won two Super Bowls, he said, Son,

1487
01:34:36,000 --> 01:34:39,719
Speaker 1: putting a team together is a lot harder than actually playing,

1488
01:34:40,160 --> 01:34:43,160
Speaker 1: he said, because when you play, you have some control

1489
01:34:43,680 --> 01:34:45,720
Speaker 1: of the outcome of the game. He said. When you

1490
01:34:45,760 --> 01:34:48,200
Speaker 1: put a team together, he said, you draft the best,

1491
01:34:48,360 --> 01:34:50,400
Speaker 1: you try to sign the best free agents, and it's

1492
01:34:50,400 --> 01:34:57,720
Speaker 1: out of your hands. Yeah. So I I remember when

1493
01:34:57,720 --> 01:35:01,360
Speaker 1: I when I first took the job over Toronto, and

1494
01:35:03,320 --> 01:35:06,880
Speaker 1: I visited you know a couple of people, so the

1495
01:35:07,880 --> 01:35:13,120
Speaker 1: and I actually I actually visit some of the football people, right,

1496
01:35:13,800 --> 01:35:19,080
Speaker 1: So I visited, Uh, Buddy Ryan, I remember Buddy Ryan

1497
01:35:19,200 --> 01:35:22,599
Speaker 1: talked to me and and he said, you know when

1498
01:35:22,640 --> 01:35:25,559
Speaker 1: you because I was talking about you know, drafting players

1499
01:35:25,560 --> 01:35:28,920
Speaker 1: everything where you look for And Buddy said, well, I

1500
01:35:29,000 --> 01:35:32,840
Speaker 1: just want you to remember this. That guy that you

1501
01:35:33,040 --> 01:35:37,000
Speaker 1: draft every time he's running up and down the court,

1502
01:35:38,280 --> 01:35:46,000
Speaker 1: he's got your paycheck in your in his mouth. Make

1503
01:35:46,080 --> 01:35:51,720
Speaker 1: sure make sure you pick wisely because that guy that

1504
01:35:51,800 --> 01:35:56,719
Speaker 1: you're coaching or that you're drafting, that guy is running

1505
01:35:56,840 --> 01:35:59,360
Speaker 1: up and down the field or down the floor, and

1506
01:35:59,400 --> 01:36:05,280
Speaker 1: that guy your paycheck in his mouth every night. So

1507
01:36:05,520 --> 01:36:12,400
Speaker 1: all which was harder playing coaching or building a team

1508
01:36:12,640 --> 01:36:16,759
Speaker 1: really absolutely well. When you when you're talking about winning

1509
01:36:16,760 --> 01:36:20,920
Speaker 1: the championship, yes, and then you, as small as I

1510
01:36:20,960 --> 01:36:24,759
Speaker 1: am in a big man's lead, right, all the rules

1511
01:36:24,840 --> 01:36:28,960
Speaker 1: are are geared against you, the small player, right, and

1512
01:36:29,000 --> 01:36:32,160
Speaker 1: they favored a bigger player. Right. There is no bigger

1513
01:36:32,200 --> 01:36:37,280
Speaker 1: mountain I had to climb right in my professional life

1514
01:36:37,840 --> 01:36:41,759
Speaker 1: than trying to win an NBA championship as a small

1515
01:36:41,800 --> 01:36:44,720
Speaker 1: person and then doing it back to back. And that's

1516
01:36:44,760 --> 01:36:46,760
Speaker 1: the thing to Isaiah, if we go back and look

1517
01:36:46,800 --> 01:36:50,960
Speaker 1: at it, really only you and step have one championships

1518
01:36:51,600 --> 01:36:55,720
Speaker 1: as the lead as guards, small guards, not magic, but

1519
01:36:55,840 --> 01:36:58,559
Speaker 1: magic with six nine you're talking about you and step

1520
01:36:58,600 --> 01:37:03,040
Speaker 1: six one six two. So as small guards, as you mentioned,

1521
01:37:03,040 --> 01:37:07,479
Speaker 1: in a big man's league, to be out front, that's

1522
01:37:07,520 --> 01:37:10,519
Speaker 1: that doesn't happen. Now, Allen Irison did get his team

1523
01:37:10,520 --> 01:37:13,479
Speaker 1: to an NBA finals as a small guard, but to

1524
01:37:13,640 --> 01:37:17,400
Speaker 1: ultimately win that prize that's very unique in the history

1525
01:37:17,400 --> 01:37:19,080
Speaker 1: of the NBA. We're not just talking about in the

1526
01:37:19,160 --> 01:37:22,200
Speaker 1: last twenty years. We're talking about in the history because

1527
01:37:22,240 --> 01:37:25,559
Speaker 1: the game has always been dominated by bigs, from Mike

1528
01:37:25,680 --> 01:37:30,120
Speaker 1: and to Chamberlain, to Russell, to Kareem to Magic and

1529
01:37:30,200 --> 01:37:34,080
Speaker 1: Bird Jordan. I guess I mean, but Jordan. Jordan wasn't

1530
01:37:34,120 --> 01:37:37,000
Speaker 1: six one. Jordan was still six six. It was six

1531
01:37:37,120 --> 01:37:40,760
Speaker 1: six for the forty nine inch vertical, so he was

1532
01:37:40,800 --> 01:37:44,760
Speaker 1: just flying over everybody. Huh. I'm saying that genetic gift right,

1533
01:37:44,800 --> 01:37:50,280
Speaker 1: It's like I ain't got that, you know. But that's

1534
01:37:50,280 --> 01:37:53,479
Speaker 1: why that's why I admire Steph and I got mad

1535
01:37:53,600 --> 01:37:59,960
Speaker 1: love and respect for stuff because you know, Steph Kurr

1536
01:38:01,120 --> 01:38:08,320
Speaker 1: in his run, he had to be arguably the greatest

1537
01:38:08,320 --> 01:38:12,760
Speaker 1: player ever. MH doing doing my run, I had to

1538
01:38:12,800 --> 01:38:18,080
Speaker 1: be arguably the greatest four players ever at that time.

1539
01:38:18,680 --> 01:38:24,439
Speaker 1: You know, Magic, Kareem on the same team, right, and

1540
01:38:24,840 --> 01:38:28,639
Speaker 1: you know Doctor Jay, you know Jordan's. People don't realize

1541
01:38:28,720 --> 01:38:31,240
Speaker 1: like you know, back in the day, Doctor Jay was

1542
01:38:31,320 --> 01:38:35,040
Speaker 1: like you know, thought of as the doctor Doctor Jay

1543
01:38:35,160 --> 01:38:39,080
Speaker 1: with Jordan before Jordan was Jordan's exactly everybody you wore

1544
01:38:39,080 --> 01:38:41,880
Speaker 1: those weapons. So you remember the cars. If you didn't

1545
01:38:41,880 --> 01:38:44,760
Speaker 1: have a pair of colin Doctor Jay cars, exactly what

1546
01:38:44,800 --> 01:38:47,280
Speaker 1: you made, you weren't. You ain't have no shoes because Nike.

1547
01:38:47,680 --> 01:38:50,760
Speaker 1: You know, Nike became when Jordan, you know, they made

1548
01:38:50,760 --> 01:38:52,800
Speaker 1: the shoe for Jordan. They took off then, but be

1549
01:38:52,920 --> 01:38:55,760
Speaker 1: proud of that. Everybody wore come or Chuck Taylor. You

1550
01:38:55,840 --> 01:38:58,680
Speaker 1: probably had Chuck Taylor's in high school, but you but

1551
01:38:58,800 --> 01:39:02,599
Speaker 1: the cause the car was it. So I would say,

1552
01:39:02,640 --> 01:39:07,519
Speaker 1: you know, you know Steph Curry, you know winning against

1553
01:39:07,640 --> 01:39:11,840
Speaker 1: Lebron James. You know, to me that was a that

1554
01:39:12,000 --> 01:39:16,160
Speaker 1: was a huge feat or a small person to be

1555
01:39:16,280 --> 01:39:21,040
Speaker 1: able to defeat him. You've enjoyed success on a lot

1556
01:39:21,080 --> 01:39:23,080
Speaker 1: of different levels. You're a great college player, a great

1557
01:39:23,160 --> 01:39:27,240
Speaker 1: NBA player, you coached, you are an exact What would

1558
01:39:27,240 --> 01:39:31,640
Speaker 1: you say was the main reason why Isaiah Thomas was

1559
01:39:31,680 --> 01:39:47,400
Speaker 1: able to enjoy success? I would say, uh, being grateful,

1560
01:39:49,040 --> 01:39:55,439
Speaker 1: you know, having having gratitude and appreciating what I what

1561
01:39:55,640 --> 01:40:00,040
Speaker 1: I have, what I was able to accomplish, understand and

1562
01:40:00,240 --> 01:40:04,519
Speaker 1: how difficult it was, but truly being appreciative of, you know,

1563
01:40:05,280 --> 01:40:08,640
Speaker 1: the life that that I've that I'm leading and that

1564
01:40:08,680 --> 01:40:13,439
Speaker 1: I've led. I'm living a life that I never dreamed about.

1565
01:40:13,560 --> 01:40:17,040
Speaker 1: I never knew it existed, the type of life that

1566
01:40:17,080 --> 01:40:21,000
Speaker 1: I'm living, and I'm I'm truly grateful and thankful that

1567
01:40:21,800 --> 01:40:25,040
Speaker 1: I'm in this place, and I don't take it for granted.

1568
01:40:26,200 --> 01:40:28,160
Speaker 1: One more thing I said, Were you a trash talker

1569
01:40:28,200 --> 01:40:33,000
Speaker 1: on the court? Was I who a trash talker? Oh? No,

1570
01:40:33,080 --> 01:40:35,120
Speaker 1: I didn't. I didn't have to talk trash unless somebody

1571
01:40:35,200 --> 01:40:38,880
Speaker 1: was talking trash to me. Now what I what I

1572
01:40:39,320 --> 01:40:44,559
Speaker 1: what I was? I was I would definitely mess with

1573
01:40:44,600 --> 01:40:51,880
Speaker 1: your mind. Okay, it's like I would. I would. I

1574
01:40:51,920 --> 01:40:56,680
Speaker 1: would always try to break your trust with with your teammate. Right. No,

1575
01:40:56,920 --> 01:40:59,400
Speaker 1: so a lot of times, you know you would know

1576
01:40:59,520 --> 01:41:02,479
Speaker 1: to play that's being called and you'd say to the

1577
01:41:02,479 --> 01:41:05,960
Speaker 1: person who your garden, I know your guy ain't gonna

1578
01:41:06,000 --> 01:41:08,320
Speaker 1: pass you the ball because he don't never pass it anyway.

1579
01:41:08,439 --> 01:41:11,720
Speaker 1: So this is what I'm going to do. I'm gonna

1580
01:41:11,800 --> 01:41:15,080
Speaker 1: leave you wide open if you know you the ball,

1581
01:41:18,439 --> 01:41:21,040
Speaker 1: and then I wouldn't be like I told you, he

1582
01:41:21,040 --> 01:41:24,720
Speaker 1: wouldn't pass you the ball. People say Larry Bird might

1583
01:41:24,760 --> 01:41:28,040
Speaker 1: have been the greatest trash talker in NBA history. How

1584
01:41:28,120 --> 01:41:32,640
Speaker 1: much did Larry talk on the court? Are talked a lot,

1585
01:41:32,040 --> 01:41:35,519
Speaker 1: I talk a lot. He backed it up. And and

1586
01:41:36,920 --> 01:41:41,000
Speaker 1: I've never seen a guy come back, come by our

1587
01:41:41,120 --> 01:41:46,240
Speaker 1: bench and look at our coach and tell our coach

1588
01:41:47,520 --> 01:41:52,080
Speaker 1: you gonna put him on me. Coach, you making a mistake.

1589
01:41:52,160 --> 01:41:55,160
Speaker 1: You sure you want this guy to guard me? And

1590
01:41:55,160 --> 01:41:58,719
Speaker 1: they didn't get the ball and scrow on. That's ruining

1591
01:41:58,760 --> 01:42:02,439
Speaker 1: your confidence. Yeah, yeah, that that's bad. I said, I

1592
01:42:02,520 --> 01:42:04,680
Speaker 1: really appreciate you taking time out today to stop and

1593
01:42:04,720 --> 01:42:06,680
Speaker 1: buy a club, Sha sha, giving me a couple of

1594
01:42:06,680 --> 01:42:09,080
Speaker 1: minutes of your time. I really appreciate it with you

1595
01:42:09,120 --> 01:42:11,760
Speaker 1: and your family, all all the blessings in the couple

1596
01:42:11,800 --> 01:42:14,720
Speaker 1: of minutes, I gave you a couple of hours. Uh,

1597
01:42:14,800 --> 01:42:16,599
Speaker 1: you gave me out forty five. But I ain't want

1598
01:42:16,600 --> 01:42:20,240
Speaker 1: to tell nobody. Hey, I said, I really appreciate it. Bro.

1599
01:42:20,720 --> 01:42:24,320
Speaker 1: Appreciate you too. All my life running, all my life,

1600
01:42:24,920 --> 01:42:29,240
Speaker 1: sacrifice hustle, bad pricing, Want a slice, Got the broner

1601
01:42:29,320 --> 01:42:31,840
Speaker 1: dice to swath all my life. I've been grinding all

1602
01:42:31,880 --> 01:42:36,920
Speaker 1: my life, all my life, and running all my life. Sacrifice, hustle,

1603
01:42:36,960 --> 01:42:40,360
Speaker 1: bad pricing, Want a slice, Got the brolla dice to

1604
01:42:40,400 --> 01:42:45,120
Speaker 1: swath all my life. I've been grinding all my life.