WEBVTT - Patti Smith and Peter Frampton - Summer Staff Picks 0:00:02.360 --> 0:00:05.440 I'm Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the Thing 0:00:05.920 --> 0:00:09.600 from My Heart Radio. And I'm Kathleen Russo and I'm 0:00:09.640 --> 0:00:13.200 finally hosting Here's the Thing. Oh my goodness, Kathy, how 0:00:13.240 --> 0:00:16.160 long have you and I worked on this podcast. It's 0:00:16.239 --> 0:00:20.160 only been ten years, Alec, ten years. Well, of course 0:00:20.239 --> 0:00:22.680 you should have a turn hosting one of our staff 0:00:22.720 --> 0:00:28.680 pick shows from the archives this summer, but justice once, okay, Alec. Thanks. 0:00:30.400 --> 0:00:33.240 One of the perks of this job as the executive 0:00:33.240 --> 0:00:35.920 producer of Here's the Thing is you get to meet 0:00:36.040 --> 0:00:39.600 so many people you admire in respect, including people whose 0:00:39.640 --> 0:00:42.440 posters hung on your bedroom wall in Upstate New York 0:00:42.560 --> 0:00:46.040 during the nineties seventies, and people whose LPs you listen 0:00:46.120 --> 0:00:50.000 to on your turntable over and over so often the 0:00:50.120 --> 0:00:54.840 vinyl warped or war thinned. My archival picks today are 0:00:54.880 --> 0:00:59.000 two of these grades. Poet, writer, musician and the ultimate 0:00:59.040 --> 0:01:02.680 punk rocker Patty Smith and one of the best guitarists 0:01:02.680 --> 0:01:07.080 and vocalists in the world, rock legend Peter Frampton. Get 0:01:07.120 --> 0:01:10.840 these phone calls in quick succession. You'll number one and 0:01:11.360 --> 0:01:14.319 the charts. You know it's the biggest selling record of 0:01:14.360 --> 0:01:19.560 all time. You've just outsold Carol King's tapestry. We'll hear 0:01:19.600 --> 0:01:23.080 alex conversation with Peter Frampton in a bit, but first 0:01:23.200 --> 0:01:27.720 let's hear from music icon Patti Smith. Alex Conversation with 0:01:27.760 --> 0:01:31.280 Patti Smith was recorded live in two thousand sixteen at 0:01:31.280 --> 0:01:34.880 the Mayo Performing Arts Center in Morristown, New Jersey. When 0:01:34.880 --> 0:01:37.320 I called Patty's manager to book her on the show, 0:01:37.920 --> 0:01:41.600 I was surprised and frankly thrilled when Patty called me 0:01:41.640 --> 0:01:44.440 back herself to tell me she was a huge fan 0:01:44.520 --> 0:01:47.400 of Alex and of course she would be a guest. 0:01:47.960 --> 0:01:50.600 I love when we record live shows for the podcast 0:01:50.640 --> 0:01:53.880 because it brings a whole new energy and feel. As 0:01:53.920 --> 0:01:56.480 you'll hear, this was a love fest with the audience, 0:01:56.840 --> 0:02:00.680 and Patty, no stranger to live shows, was the perfect guest. 0:02:01.280 --> 0:02:04.640 Alex started by asking if she'd have the same career 0:02:05.040 --> 0:02:09.000 if she started out today. Actually, I have no idea 0:02:09.080 --> 0:02:13.280 because I didn't really come into the music business. I was. 0:02:14.320 --> 0:02:18.040 I came. I wound up in music by mistake. I'm 0:02:18.040 --> 0:02:20.800 not really a musician. I didn't really want to be 0:02:20.880 --> 0:02:23.720 a musician or a singer. I just wanted to I 0:02:23.760 --> 0:02:26.040 wanted to be a poet and a writer, and it 0:02:26.120 --> 0:02:31.840 was accidental. So would it accidentally happen now? I don't 0:02:31.880 --> 0:02:34.200 think so. I think I would have to be more 0:02:34.240 --> 0:02:37.480 focused on what I wanted. But also because I'm so 0:02:37.680 --> 0:02:41.840 on technological and things, I mean, I'm just not really 0:02:41.880 --> 0:02:45.920 suited for right now, So probably I would have to 0:02:45.960 --> 0:02:50.760 be like a physicist the band in the game. You 0:02:50.800 --> 0:02:52.480 don't even drive. No, I don't know how to drive, 0:02:52.600 --> 0:02:55.400 so I couldn't do that. That's true. She doesn't have 0:02:55.400 --> 0:02:56.760 a license. I said, you ever a live in l A. 0:02:56.840 --> 0:02:58.440 She said no, I don't swim and I don't drive. 0:03:00.320 --> 0:03:03.080 That's true. But if you came in now, you'd be 0:03:03.120 --> 0:03:05.960 a scientist. Who said, well, I I don't know what 0:03:06.040 --> 0:03:07.800 I would be, but I don't think I would have 0:03:07.840 --> 0:03:10.160 a problem no matter where I came in. You know, 0:03:10.200 --> 0:03:16.519 I would figure out something. I'm pretty scrappy now. But 0:03:16.560 --> 0:03:18.680 when you say that you weren't a musician, how did 0:03:18.760 --> 0:03:21.840 that begin for you? Well, I mean I came to 0:03:21.880 --> 0:03:25.440 New York in nineteen seven wanted to be an artist, 0:03:26.040 --> 0:03:31.160 and I also wrote poetry. And after I I just 0:03:31.200 --> 0:03:35.360 started writing more poetry. And then uh was shepherded by 0:03:35.400 --> 0:03:40.320 people like Alan Ginsburg and and William Burrows and Gregory Corso, 0:03:40.480 --> 0:03:43.560 and they all read their poetry. So I wanted to 0:03:43.560 --> 0:03:46.840 read poetry, but I didn't want to be boring because 0:03:46.880 --> 0:03:49.120 I went to a lot of poetry readings and they 0:03:49.120 --> 0:03:53.080 were snoresville, you know, they were like, sorry, but really boring. 0:03:53.800 --> 0:03:57.520 So I just started like, at least have good wine. Wine. 0:03:58.360 --> 0:04:01.640 I didn't even drink, and I don't anything interesting really, 0:04:02.080 --> 0:04:07.120 but I mean, I'll have a shot at to kill everybody. No, 0:04:07.280 --> 0:04:10.480 I mean no, I never had a drug problem. M 0:04:14.960 --> 0:04:18.480 minutes on that I have a drug problem now. Actually, 0:04:19.720 --> 0:04:23.520 I was such a sickly kid um that and my 0:04:23.600 --> 0:04:26.760 parents worked so hard to keep me alive that you know, 0:04:26.800 --> 0:04:28.880 when I when I came out into the world, the 0:04:28.960 --> 0:04:30.960 last thing I was going to do is fuck that up. 0:04:31.080 --> 0:04:34.440 You know, I just I'm not. I don't have a 0:04:34.520 --> 0:04:38.800 self destructive event. But also when I was a kid, 0:04:38.880 --> 0:04:42.960 my mother was a chain smoker, and she I mean 0:04:43.200 --> 0:04:45.960 real true chain smoker, and when she ran out of 0:04:46.000 --> 0:04:49.160 cigarettes and she didn't have money, she would pace all 0:04:49.279 --> 0:04:51.480 night long. I get up at midnight and see my 0:04:51.520 --> 0:04:55.400 poor mom pacing because she didn't have a cigarette. And 0:04:55.520 --> 0:04:59.839 I thought then I'm never gonna be dependent on anything, 0:05:00.360 --> 0:05:02.640 because I thought, what would happen if you got stranded 0:05:02.640 --> 0:05:05.320 on a desert island you didn't have cigarettes, You'd like 0:05:05.400 --> 0:05:09.760 fall apart. So it was like an early lesson in uh, 0:05:10.320 --> 0:05:16.159 what I didn't want facing on a desert cigarettes have 0:05:16.240 --> 0:05:20.320 to grow to back and then But I feel like 0:05:20.400 --> 0:05:23.480 somehow I didn't answer one of some questions. Oh, I know, 0:05:23.520 --> 0:05:26.479 because you're yeah, it doesn't matter. You do whatever you 0:05:26.480 --> 0:05:28.600 want to do. How I wound up singing, I just 0:05:28.640 --> 0:05:32.279 wound up singing, like to make up little singing, little 0:05:32.279 --> 0:05:36.520 songs acapella between poems to make it a little more interesting, 0:05:36.640 --> 0:05:39.560 and then sort of wrapping poems. And it was just 0:05:40.080 --> 0:05:43.159 organic from somebody just did it on your own. You 0:05:43.160 --> 0:05:45.320 didn't see anybody else doing that, No, I mean I 0:05:45.320 --> 0:05:50.200 saw like beat poets or I mean just I think 0:05:50.360 --> 0:05:54.120 of everybody that I was influenced by at that time 0:05:54.160 --> 0:05:58.400 of my life, Johnny Carson was the one. I just thought, like, 0:05:58.720 --> 0:06:01.839 you didn't have drug problem either. Yeah, I'm not surprised, 0:06:01.839 --> 0:06:04.279 but I mean, but just the fact that Johnny Carson, 0:06:04.960 --> 0:06:08.600 his his his ability to improvise or to get himself 0:06:08.640 --> 0:06:12.599 out of any situation. That was always what I was 0:06:12.680 --> 0:06:16.120 looking for. If I was on stage, gotten a bad situation, 0:06:16.560 --> 0:06:18.880 find my way out of it. You grew up in 0:06:18.920 --> 0:06:21.440 South Jersey, and you're kind of tough. The way you 0:06:21.440 --> 0:06:22.880 grew up. Your dad. What did your dad do for 0:06:22.920 --> 0:06:26.680 a living? He was worked in a factory. She's waitress. 0:06:26.800 --> 0:06:31.600 And how many kids in your family? Three girls, one boy? 0:06:31.800 --> 0:06:36.159 And I was the oldest, oldest, And it was tough. 0:06:37.279 --> 0:06:40.040 Well yeah, I mean it was financially tough. We had. 0:06:40.520 --> 0:06:44.960 It was in those ways very tough. But in another 0:06:45.000 --> 0:06:48.600 way we had it was very magical because I had 0:06:48.640 --> 0:06:54.120 really great siblings. I had a great imagination, read hundreds 0:06:54.200 --> 0:06:57.560 of books. My parents. We knew that they had a 0:06:57.560 --> 0:07:00.760 lot of strife and stress, but you know, it was 0:07:00.839 --> 0:07:03.520 just the world seems so magical. It wasn't so bad 0:07:03.560 --> 0:07:07.720 for us. Books were my salvation, and so I I 0:07:07.800 --> 0:07:11.280 didn't think of things. The only bad thing was when 0:07:11.280 --> 0:07:14.440 I'd be hungry. I mean, truthfully, I like to eat. 0:07:14.600 --> 0:07:18.520 I was really skinny and a real I was always hungry, 0:07:18.960 --> 0:07:25.400 and that was my big Yeah, really skinny. And then 0:07:25.440 --> 0:07:29.960 when you left home, where'd you go? New York? I 0:07:30.040 --> 0:07:33.520 left when I was twenty and Basically I left to 0:07:33.560 --> 0:07:37.560 get a job because in uh South Jersey and Philadelphia, 0:07:37.640 --> 0:07:40.760 the New York shipyard closed down and there were like 0:07:40.840 --> 0:07:45.760 thirty thousand jobs overnight were lost and there wasn't any work, 0:07:46.280 --> 0:07:49.440 no matter how low a factory job, nothing, And there 0:07:49.520 --> 0:07:52.080 was no more work, and I needed a job. So 0:07:52.120 --> 0:07:54.320 I went to New York City to get a job. 0:07:54.760 --> 0:07:58.120 And where'd you get a job? Um? In a bookstore. 0:07:58.680 --> 0:08:02.840 I got a series of bookstores until I really landed 0:08:02.920 --> 0:08:07.280 a great bookstore job in Scribner's Bookstore, and I worked 0:08:07.280 --> 0:08:09.600 there for about five years. Doesn't it really tells a 0:08:09.640 --> 0:08:11.720 lot about you? That really pretty much sums it up? 0:08:12.080 --> 0:08:14.560 Your home in Jersey, you can't get a job, you're starving. 0:08:14.920 --> 0:08:16.200 You going to New York to get a job. I 0:08:16.240 --> 0:08:19.040 thought you were gonna say in a restaurant, Well, no idea, 0:08:19.800 --> 0:08:23.080 it soon as you go to a bookstore a different 0:08:23.120 --> 0:08:26.040 kind of food. But no, you know what happened. My 0:08:26.120 --> 0:08:28.240 mother was a waitress and she tried to give me 0:08:28.280 --> 0:08:31.400 a job at her counter, but I was so clumsy 0:08:31.560 --> 0:08:36.200 and such a day dreamer, and she fired me. And 0:08:36.320 --> 0:08:39.400 so then she was upset that I was leaving home, 0:08:39.640 --> 0:08:43.200 but she got she let me take my white uniform 0:08:43.280 --> 0:08:46.520 and my wedgies. So the first day I got I'm 0:08:46.559 --> 0:08:48.920 one Time Square and of course Time Square was all 0:08:49.000 --> 0:08:52.240 different than you know. And uh, I got a little 0:08:52.320 --> 0:08:55.280 a job immediately because they needed a waitress at a place, 0:08:55.480 --> 0:08:59.319 a little Italian place called Joe's Um on Times Square. 0:09:00.040 --> 0:09:04.080 And within like two hours I dumped one of the 0:09:04.160 --> 0:09:08.080 I had a giant tray as tripped and the whole 0:09:08.440 --> 0:09:13.120 tray of veal parmisanas went on this woman's tweed suit. 0:09:13.679 --> 0:09:16.080 Not only was I fired, but my three hours pay 0:09:16.160 --> 0:09:19.240 went to her cleaning bill. So I went back to 0:09:19.320 --> 0:09:23.240 port authority, left the waitress uniform and the wedgies in 0:09:23.320 --> 0:09:27.000 the girl's bathroom and thought maybe somebody can use them 0:09:27.520 --> 0:09:31.160 and h Then I looked around for a better job. 0:09:32.400 --> 0:09:36.559 How does art, poetry, music come into your life when 0:09:36.559 --> 0:09:38.960 you're in New York when you're twenty years old. Well, 0:09:39.040 --> 0:09:41.160 first it was just getting a job. I didn't get 0:09:41.160 --> 0:09:43.280 a job the first or second day. I mean I 0:09:43.320 --> 0:09:47.240 was sleeping in the subway, sleeping in uh Central Park, 0:09:47.440 --> 0:09:52.480 sleeping at the cemetery and Flushing or Greenwood or wherever 0:09:52.520 --> 0:09:57.160 it was, and near where Herman Melville was buried, and uh, 0:09:58.880 --> 0:10:07.800 it took a little while, and truthfully, it wasn't really 0:10:07.880 --> 0:10:11.440 until I met I met Robert Maplethorpe, and uh we 0:10:11.559 --> 0:10:13.600 met a couple of times. But I was in a 0:10:13.640 --> 0:10:17.280 bit of a jam because a grown up asked me 0:10:17.360 --> 0:10:20.600 to go out to eat. He was probably forty, but 0:10:20.679 --> 0:10:22.800 I was like twenty. To me, seemed like, you know, 0:10:23.200 --> 0:10:26.400 he was a grown up, you know, And uh, I 0:10:27.120 --> 0:10:29.559 was really afraid that my mother used to say, don't 0:10:29.600 --> 0:10:31.840 go out with a stranger because you know, they just 0:10:31.920 --> 0:10:35.839 want one thing. And I thought, I was so hungry, 0:10:35.880 --> 0:10:38.320 and he said he would take me to dinner. And 0:10:38.480 --> 0:10:42.480 he took me to the Empire State Building diner, and 0:10:42.600 --> 0:10:46.160 I remembered to this day he ordered, uh we ordered. 0:10:46.200 --> 0:10:49.200 He ordered me swordfish and it was five dollars, and 0:10:49.240 --> 0:10:52.240 I thought he's going to want everything for five dollars. 0:10:53.600 --> 0:10:58.240 And I was petrified, and so I I ate that 0:10:59.200 --> 0:11:02.600 I couldn't even eat it. And I'm so angry, I'm 0:11:02.600 --> 0:11:06.120 gonna eat. Maybe I should leave now, Yeah, exactly, not 0:11:06.280 --> 0:11:08.480 that door. But these potatoes are so good of just 0:11:08.520 --> 0:11:10.520 a couple of more potatoes that I'm going to write 0:11:10.520 --> 0:11:16.400 out that door. He'll never know. No, I didn't know 0:11:16.400 --> 0:11:19.600 what to do. Then when we walked, no, we didn't. 0:11:19.679 --> 0:11:21.680 We didn't have any dessert. We walked all the way 0:11:21.679 --> 0:11:25.080 down to uh Tompkins Square Park and we were sitting 0:11:25.120 --> 0:11:27.880 there and then all of a sudden, he said, I 0:11:27.920 --> 0:11:31.080 have an apartment right around here. Would and he asked 0:11:31.080 --> 0:11:34.200 me if I wanted to. It was really creepy. He 0:11:34.240 --> 0:11:40.559 actually had like it's like like a turtleneck, a white turtleneck, 0:11:40.600 --> 0:11:47.200 I remember, and a medallion. I mean, it was really powers. 0:11:48.480 --> 0:11:50.680 That's so funny. Now he was supposed to be a 0:11:50.720 --> 0:11:56.160 science fiction writer, but I was. And when he said that, 0:11:56.280 --> 0:11:58.680 I thought, oh my god, this is the moment, you know, 0:11:58.760 --> 0:12:02.040 and everything my mother ever told me for like ten 0:12:02.120 --> 0:12:05.560 years of my life. And I was sitting there paralyzed, 0:12:05.640 --> 0:12:08.200 figuring out what to do. And I looked and I 0:12:08.240 --> 0:12:13.080 see Robert Maplethorpe coming, you know, up through it just coming. 0:12:13.200 --> 0:12:16.560 It's almost like a cloud parted and here he comes 0:12:16.600 --> 0:12:20.120 with like long curly hair and a sheepskin vest and 0:12:20.480 --> 0:12:23.520 you know, and his dungarees. And I had only met 0:12:23.559 --> 0:12:26.640 him once or twice, and I didn't even know his name, 0:12:27.520 --> 0:12:30.040 and I just met him sort of, And so I 0:12:30.120 --> 0:12:32.520 ran up to him, and I said, uh, do you 0:12:32.559 --> 0:12:35.760 remember me? And he goes yeah, And I said, will 0:12:35.800 --> 0:12:39.160 you pretend you're my boyfriend? And he says okay. So 0:12:39.240 --> 0:12:41.480 I bring him to the science fiction guy and I said, 0:12:42.320 --> 0:12:45.480 this is my boyfriend. He's really mad. I gotta go goodbye. 0:12:45.840 --> 0:12:48.079 And then I said to Robert, this is so stupid, 0:12:48.120 --> 0:12:54.280 but I didn't. I said run, and Robert and I ran. 0:12:54.480 --> 0:13:02.160 We ran, we ran, we ran away. And uh and 0:13:02.200 --> 0:13:04.520 now the guy on the turtleneck with the medallion on 0:13:04.880 --> 0:13:10.240 is the president elect of the United States. Boy, did 0:13:10.280 --> 0:13:16.600 you play your cards wrong? You know? And then my 0:13:16.920 --> 0:13:20.280 life began. Life began that night because Robert and I 0:13:20.440 --> 0:13:23.880 just roamed around. We roamed around the East Village and 0:13:23.920 --> 0:13:26.840 everywhere all night long till two in the morning, just 0:13:27.040 --> 0:13:32.120 talking away. And finally, almost simultaneously, we both said, do 0:13:32.160 --> 0:13:34.520 you have a place to stay? Neither one of us 0:13:34.520 --> 0:13:37.920 had anywhere to live, We didn't have any money, but 0:13:38.400 --> 0:13:41.719 the differences. Robert had knew some kids of Pratt and 0:13:41.760 --> 0:13:43.760 he knew he knew how to get the key to 0:13:43.840 --> 0:13:47.240 this one guy's apartment where his art was stored. So 0:13:47.280 --> 0:13:50.120 we went there and we went to his place and 0:13:50.160 --> 0:13:53.160 he showed me all his drawings and what he was doing, 0:13:53.920 --> 0:13:58.520 and after that night we became inseparable, and that set us, 0:13:58.880 --> 0:14:02.640 at least me on a path, you know where of 0:14:02.800 --> 0:14:10.440 drawling and painting and evolving and writing poetry. And yeah, 0:14:10.480 --> 0:14:17.200 we've we've yes through through many things. Yeah, well I 0:14:17.240 --> 0:14:20.040 was going to get into that. But you're with him 0:14:20.080 --> 0:14:22.320 for a long long time, and then things change for 0:14:22.360 --> 0:14:24.880 you as well in terms of your career. Well, I 0:14:24.880 --> 0:14:27.080 mean at first. I mean, the thing is is that 0:14:27.760 --> 0:14:30.680 I never cared about a career. I have to say, 0:14:31.080 --> 0:14:38.120 none of those things, um being in a business, music, business, career, money. 0:14:38.440 --> 0:14:41.840 What what I always wanted, no matter how conceded it sounds, 0:14:41.960 --> 0:14:44.800 is I wanted to do something great. I wanted to 0:14:44.800 --> 0:14:49.680 write something as great as Pinocchio or The Scarlet Letter, 0:14:49.840 --> 0:14:53.760 or you know, just do something wonderful, write a wonderful book. 0:14:54.160 --> 0:14:57.000 I didn't really care about and still don't. I don't 0:14:57.000 --> 0:14:59.400 care about having a career or any of that stuff. 0:14:59.640 --> 0:15:02.680 I do my work and in the process I've had 0:15:02.760 --> 0:15:06.360 some great successes. I've had things that have had me 0:15:06.520 --> 0:15:09.680 banned from the world. I've had you know, I've I've 0:15:09.960 --> 0:15:12.960 been in trouble, I've done you know, I've left it 0:15:13.000 --> 0:15:16.280 all behind. It's not important to me. It's always important 0:15:16.320 --> 0:15:20.280 to me. Is really just to do something good, to 0:15:20.560 --> 0:15:27.480 do something that's uh duran Patti Smith talking about her 0:15:27.480 --> 0:15:32.160 relationship with the artist Robert Maplethorpe. If you're enjoying this 0:15:32.240 --> 0:15:35.360 show from our archives, did you know we have over 0:15:35.400 --> 0:15:39.000 two and fifty more available for your listening pleasure. Be 0:15:39.120 --> 0:15:41.840 sure to check them out and Here's the Thing dot Org. 0:15:42.840 --> 0:15:45.840 After the break, Alec and Patti Smith talked about her 0:15:45.840 --> 0:16:02.840 marriage to mc fives bred Sonic Smith, and motherhood. I'm 0:16:02.920 --> 0:16:06.200 Kathleen Rousseau and you're listening to Here's the Thing. Let's 0:16:06.240 --> 0:16:09.480 get back to Alex's conversation with Patti Smith and what 0:16:09.720 --> 0:16:13.960 her career really means to her. So when you started 0:16:13.960 --> 0:16:17.120 to have success, was that something that was because it 0:16:17.160 --> 0:16:20.400 was so unfamiliar to you? There are those people who 0:16:21.880 --> 0:16:23.840 I'm not going to say the word failure. They're more 0:16:23.880 --> 0:16:26.800 comfortable and anonymity than they are being successful and famous 0:16:26.800 --> 0:16:28.880 because it's familiar. Did you find that when you were 0:16:29.240 --> 0:16:32.600 becoming famous as a musician, because primarily you became famous 0:16:32.640 --> 0:16:35.320 as a musician as well. At first in the beginning, 0:16:36.920 --> 0:16:39.680 I had my first big success with this song I 0:16:39.720 --> 0:16:44.200 wrote with Bruce Springsteen because the night I thought it 0:16:44.280 --> 0:16:48.480 was thank you, I thought it was I thought it 0:16:48.520 --> 0:16:50.680 was exciting to have a song on the radio. I 0:16:50.720 --> 0:16:53.560 didn't think of it in terms of success or failure. 0:16:53.960 --> 0:16:55.920 It was just really cool to be on the radio. 0:16:55.960 --> 0:16:59.280 And back then, you know, having a single and meant, 0:16:59.320 --> 0:17:02.320 you know, your kurds were in the window and and 0:17:02.440 --> 0:17:05.640 you could, you know, you played bigger places and met 0:17:05.640 --> 0:17:12.000 more people. But by nine seventy nine, truthfully, I could 0:17:12.080 --> 0:17:18.080 see that success was to keep going. You I was 0:17:18.160 --> 0:17:23.159 doing less work, less meaningful work, evolving less as a 0:17:23.240 --> 0:17:27.440 person and an artist, and just get more successful. And 0:17:27.480 --> 0:17:30.080 I thought, that's that's not why I was put on 0:17:30.119 --> 0:17:33.240 the planet. I wasn't put on the planet to you know, 0:17:33.320 --> 0:17:36.480 climb the ladder of success. I was here to do 0:17:37.200 --> 0:17:41.159 certain kind of work. And so um I left. I 0:17:41.280 --> 0:17:44.680 left the music business in seventy nine. You separated from 0:17:44.960 --> 0:17:49.399 Maple Well. Robert and I separated as a couple in 0:17:49.520 --> 0:17:54.280 like seventy two, but never as we were just the same, 0:17:54.359 --> 0:17:58.800 only we weren't, you know, doing it anymore, you know, 0:17:59.400 --> 0:18:01.840 But we didn't change how we were. We were always 0:18:02.000 --> 0:18:04.560 just the same. We were just you know, had different 0:18:05.080 --> 0:18:10.360 physical partners. So we never quite really separated and were 0:18:10.400 --> 0:18:12.919 with him and still connected him even when he was 0:18:13.000 --> 0:18:16.440 very second, when he was and when he died. Oh yeah, 0:18:16.520 --> 0:18:19.440 I mean we you know, I'm still connected with him. 0:18:19.480 --> 0:18:23.280 I still think about him every day, and the things 0:18:23.320 --> 0:18:25.680 that I learned from him or that we we did 0:18:25.720 --> 0:18:30.640 together inform the work that I do. I mean, we 0:18:30.640 --> 0:18:35.200 we bonded so young through art. I mean, of course, 0:18:35.320 --> 0:18:38.000 you know, we were boyfriend and girlfriend. We did all 0:18:38.040 --> 0:18:42.960 the things young people do. But I think that is 0:18:43.000 --> 0:18:46.080 as he felt freer and freer as an artist in 0:18:46.119 --> 0:18:49.840 a human being his nature. First he had to come 0:18:49.840 --> 0:18:54.240 out as an artist. Then the next thing that happened 0:18:54.320 --> 0:18:59.920 is he blossomed and felt his sexual nature. We had 0:19:00.040 --> 0:19:04.040 to weather that. We had to, you know, try to 0:19:04.119 --> 0:19:07.280 navigate what this meant, what it meant to our relationship, 0:19:07.440 --> 0:19:10.919 what it meant and and it was difficult, and it 0:19:11.000 --> 0:19:14.119 took a few years because neither one of us wanted 0:19:14.160 --> 0:19:20.040 to part, But eventually we had to part as boyfriend 0:19:20.040 --> 0:19:24.159 and girlfriend because he had to be who he needed 0:19:24.200 --> 0:19:27.000 to be. When did you meet your husband, you eventually 0:19:27.040 --> 0:19:30.720 got married. I met my husband in nineteen seventy six 0:19:31.680 --> 0:19:35.280 in Detroit, and I was on the road and I 0:19:35.359 --> 0:19:39.000 met him in Detroit and I saw him. It was 0:19:39.160 --> 0:19:43.440 it's like a it's really like a song. I saw 0:19:43.520 --> 0:19:46.480 him across a crowded room. He was just standing there 0:19:46.480 --> 0:19:49.800 and it blew overcoat. I didn't know who he was, 0:19:49.960 --> 0:19:53.800 and I thought, that's the boy I'm going to marry. 0:19:54.040 --> 0:19:56.199 I swear to you that's true. How old were you 0:19:56.240 --> 0:20:00.480 at the time. I was about seventy six. I was 0:20:00.520 --> 0:20:05.600 about twenty eight. I don't know. Did you walk up 0:20:05.600 --> 0:20:10.520 and tell him that right? No, no, not at all. 0:20:10.600 --> 0:20:16.800 But Lenny Kay actually introduced us and he said, Fred Smith, 0:20:17.160 --> 0:20:21.879 Patti Smith. We just looked at each other and I 0:20:21.920 --> 0:20:26.640 don't know, and we finally, Um, we had a long 0:20:26.720 --> 0:20:31.199 distance relationship, in fact, because the night we had a 0:20:31.240 --> 0:20:33.600 long distant relationship and neither one of us had a 0:20:33.600 --> 0:20:37.360 whole lot of money, and to make phone calls was expensive, 0:20:37.480 --> 0:20:40.800 long distance calls. I always to this day I hear 0:20:40.840 --> 0:20:43.760 people my boyfriend only called me three times today, and 0:20:43.800 --> 0:20:47.639 I think, Jesus, you know, it's like I'd have to 0:20:47.680 --> 0:20:51.280 wait all week to get one phone call from from 0:20:51.280 --> 0:20:56.800 Fred And um, actually, am I going off the course too, 0:20:57.320 --> 0:20:59.520 there is no core, is no course. Yeah, you're my 0:20:59.680 --> 0:21:04.080 kind of guy. I'm your kind of passage. I'm your 0:21:04.160 --> 0:21:08.280 kind of passenger too, because the autopilot about thirty minutes ago. Now, 0:21:08.280 --> 0:21:11.879 I mean, I'm we're not going anywhere in particular because 0:21:11.960 --> 0:21:13.439 I don't know how to drive and I have no 0:21:13.520 --> 0:21:16.439 sense of direction. I'm a really good passenger because I 0:21:16.440 --> 0:21:20.480 can never tell if anybody's lost, you know, And I 0:21:20.520 --> 0:21:24.120 apply that to all every part of life. But when 0:21:24.119 --> 0:21:25.760 you met your husband, and what did he do? Was 0:21:25.760 --> 0:21:28.159 he a musician? He's a He was a musician, He 0:21:28.840 --> 0:21:32.240 played with the MC five. He was a master guitarist. 0:21:33.640 --> 0:21:36.399 He was really one of our great guitarist and h 0:21:37.080 --> 0:21:40.240 and he's just such a beautiful man. You know. We 0:21:40.400 --> 0:21:44.080 just decided, you know, we we wanted to evolve as 0:21:44.200 --> 0:21:48.840 human beings, and he wanted children, and we just we 0:21:48.960 --> 0:21:53.040 just decided to withdraw from public life and really know 0:21:53.160 --> 0:21:55.840 each other and when when we had children, they would 0:21:55.840 --> 0:21:59.880 really know who we were. And and so we did. 0:22:00.280 --> 0:22:05.640 How long until his he passed away in the end 0:22:05.680 --> 0:22:08.840 of ninety four, so sixteen years, sixteen years? What was 0:22:08.880 --> 0:22:13.720 it like did you paint? I know, I didn't paint 0:22:13.800 --> 0:22:18.040 because um it was just the way our living quarters were. 0:22:18.160 --> 0:22:20.760 I didn't really have the space to do something like that, 0:22:20.800 --> 0:22:24.280 but I wrote every day. I could have never written 0:22:24.320 --> 0:22:27.440 just kids or the books that I'm writing now, had 0:22:27.480 --> 0:22:31.840 I not had sixteen years of enforced discipline, because I've 0:22:31.880 --> 0:22:35.639 always been very undisciplined. And then unless I had a 0:22:35.760 --> 0:22:41.680 job or something. But then having a children, um I had. 0:22:41.720 --> 0:22:43.639 I had to learn to wake up at five in 0:22:43.680 --> 0:22:46.720 the morning and from five to eight was my writing time. 0:22:47.320 --> 0:22:50.280 Everybody was asleep, it was my time. And it was 0:22:50.400 --> 0:22:53.399 really hard at first, but then after a while I 0:22:53.520 --> 0:22:57.199 got in a groove and I still right early in 0:22:57.240 --> 0:23:01.600 the morning, and I really learned how to develop my craft. 0:23:02.440 --> 0:23:05.960 And uh, it was hard because there's no cafes around, 0:23:06.440 --> 0:23:09.960 there was no bookstores, a lot of things. The biggest, 0:23:10.680 --> 0:23:14.000 the most hardest thing is in New York, you can 0:23:14.040 --> 0:23:16.360 walk out the door and get a cup of coffee 0:23:16.359 --> 0:23:20.560 in about two minutes practically anywhere, but where I was, 0:23:21.680 --> 0:23:25.000 the closest thing was seven eleven, which was about, you know, 0:23:25.320 --> 0:23:28.119 half a mile away, so I'd have to every Saturday, 0:23:28.200 --> 0:23:32.479 I'd walked to seven eleven, my cafe, get a glazed donut, 0:23:32.520 --> 0:23:35.159 and the coffee, and I was I was in town, 0:23:35.359 --> 0:23:40.159 you know. But but I love my life. It wasn't 0:23:40.200 --> 0:23:43.600 easy because you know, I had to do all the 0:23:44.000 --> 0:23:47.280 we we did everything. We didn't have nannie's or housekeepers 0:23:47.440 --> 0:23:51.280 or even babysitters. We did everything. And I'm not the 0:23:51.359 --> 0:23:54.679 most adept at stuff. You know, some of my poor kids, 0:23:54.760 --> 0:23:59.240 you know, their school uniforms and stuff. My daughter's little pleaded, 0:23:59.640 --> 0:24:03.000 you know, jumper was like always a little jagged e 0:24:03.160 --> 0:24:07.200 and their blouses in their shirts were a little dingier 0:24:07.200 --> 0:24:10.399 than the other because I didn't like using bleach and 0:24:10.560 --> 0:24:14.560 things like that. But but I I love my kids, 0:24:14.600 --> 0:24:17.600 I love my husband, you know. And it was a 0:24:17.680 --> 0:24:22.000 lot of certain amount of sacrifice and and uh, you know, 0:24:22.760 --> 0:24:27.120 but I was talking about you because I just find 0:24:27.119 --> 0:24:29.760 this so interesting that was there much talk about you, 0:24:30.040 --> 0:24:32.280 like getting back, getting back in there and getting back 0:24:32.320 --> 0:24:35.639 into your life to make money as a breadwinner for 0:24:35.680 --> 0:24:40.119 everybody's been well, when we really really need I always 0:24:40.160 --> 0:24:42.280 always feel like I got to work all the time. Well, 0:24:42.280 --> 0:24:45.399 when we really needed money, we lived so simply. I 0:24:45.400 --> 0:24:51.359 mean when we really needed money. In eighty six, we 0:24:51.400 --> 0:24:55.480 did one record together and that kept us going. And 0:24:56.720 --> 0:25:04.399 but it's just you know, I um, I I liked 0:25:04.440 --> 0:25:08.639 my life. I never I didn't expect to be on 0:25:08.720 --> 0:25:12.000 the great Stages of Europe, you know. To me, it 0:25:12.080 --> 0:25:15.560 was really fantastic that I got the opportunity. I never 0:25:15.640 --> 0:25:18.679 thought I would do a record, but in doing so, 0:25:18.760 --> 0:25:21.800