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Speaker 1: I'm Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the Thing

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Speaker 1: from My Heart Radio. And I'm Kathleen Russo and I'm

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Speaker 1: finally hosting Here's the Thing. Oh my goodness, Kathy, how

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Speaker 1: long have you and I worked on this podcast. It's

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Speaker 1: only been ten years, Alec, ten years. Well, of course

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Speaker 1: you should have a turn hosting one of our staff

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Speaker 1: pick shows from the archives this summer, but justice once, okay, Alec. Thanks.

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Speaker 1: One of the perks of this job as the executive

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Speaker 1: producer of Here's the Thing is you get to meet

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Speaker 1: so many people you admire in respect, including people whose

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Speaker 1: posters hung on your bedroom wall in Upstate New York

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Speaker 1: during the nineties seventies, and people whose LPs you listen

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Speaker 1: to on your turntable over and over so often the

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Speaker 1: vinyl warped or war thinned. My archival picks today are

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Speaker 1: two of these grades. Poet, writer, musician and the ultimate

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Speaker 1: punk rocker Patty Smith and one of the best guitarists

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Speaker 1: and vocalists in the world, rock legend Peter Frampton. Get

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Speaker 1: these phone calls in quick succession. You'll number one and

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Speaker 1: the charts. You know it's the biggest selling record of

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Speaker 1: all time. You've just outsold Carol King's tapestry. We'll hear

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Speaker 1: alex conversation with Peter Frampton in a bit, but first

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Speaker 1: let's hear from music icon Patti Smith. Alex Conversation with

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Speaker 1: Patti Smith was recorded live in two thousand sixteen at

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Speaker 1: the Mayo Performing Arts Center in Morristown, New Jersey. When

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Speaker 1: I called Patty's manager to book her on the show,

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Speaker 1: I was surprised and frankly thrilled when Patty called me

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Speaker 1: back herself to tell me she was a huge fan

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Speaker 1: of Alex and of course she would be a guest.

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Speaker 1: I love when we record live shows for the podcast

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Speaker 1: because it brings a whole new energy and feel. As

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Speaker 1: you'll hear, this was a love fest with the audience,

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Speaker 1: and Patty, no stranger to live shows, was the perfect guest.

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Speaker 1: Alex started by asking if she'd have the same career

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Speaker 1: if she started out today. Actually, I have no idea

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Speaker 1: because I didn't really come into the music business. I was.

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Speaker 1: I came. I wound up in music by mistake. I'm

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Speaker 1: not really a musician. I didn't really want to be

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Speaker 1: a musician or a singer. I just wanted to I

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Speaker 1: wanted to be a poet and a writer, and it

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Speaker 1: was accidental. So would it accidentally happen now? I don't

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Speaker 1: think so. I think I would have to be more

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Speaker 1: focused on what I wanted. But also because I'm so

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Speaker 1: on technological and things, I mean, I'm just not really

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Speaker 1: suited for right now, So probably I would have to

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Speaker 1: be like a physicist the band in the game. You

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Speaker 1: don't even drive. No, I don't know how to drive,

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Speaker 1: so I couldn't do that. That's true. She doesn't have

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Speaker 1: a license. I said, you ever a live in l A.

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Speaker 1: She said no, I don't swim and I don't drive.

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Speaker 1: That's true. But if you came in now, you'd be

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Speaker 1: a scientist. Who said, well, I I don't know what

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Speaker 1: I would be, but I don't think I would have

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Speaker 1: a problem no matter where I came in. You know,

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Speaker 1: I would figure out something. I'm pretty scrappy now. But

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Speaker 1: when you say that you weren't a musician, how did

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Speaker 1: that begin for you? Well, I mean I came to

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Speaker 1: New York in nineteen seven wanted to be an artist,

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Speaker 1: and I also wrote poetry. And after I I just

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Speaker 1: started writing more poetry. And then uh was shepherded by

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Speaker 1: people like Alan Ginsburg and and William Burrows and Gregory Corso,

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Speaker 1: and they all read their poetry. So I wanted to

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Speaker 1: read poetry, but I didn't want to be boring because

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Speaker 1: I went to a lot of poetry readings and they

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Speaker 1: were snoresville, you know, they were like, sorry, but really boring.

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Speaker 1: So I just started like, at least have good wine. Wine.

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Speaker 1: I didn't even drink, and I don't anything interesting really,

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Speaker 1: but I mean, I'll have a shot at to kill everybody. No,

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Speaker 1: I mean no, I never had a drug problem. M

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Speaker 1: minutes on that I have a drug problem now. Actually,

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Speaker 1: I was such a sickly kid um that and my

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Speaker 1: parents worked so hard to keep me alive that you know,

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Speaker 1: when I when I came out into the world, the

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Speaker 1: last thing I was going to do is fuck that up.

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Speaker 1: You know, I just I'm not. I don't have a

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Speaker 1: self destructive event. But also when I was a kid,

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Speaker 1: my mother was a chain smoker, and she I mean

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Speaker 1: real true chain smoker, and when she ran out of

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Speaker 1: cigarettes and she didn't have money, she would pace all

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Speaker 1: night long. I get up at midnight and see my

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Speaker 1: poor mom pacing because she didn't have a cigarette. And

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Speaker 1: I thought then I'm never gonna be dependent on anything,

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Speaker 1: because I thought, what would happen if you got stranded

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Speaker 1: on a desert island you didn't have cigarettes, You'd like

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Speaker 1: fall apart. So it was like an early lesson in uh,

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Speaker 1: what I didn't want facing on a desert cigarettes have

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Speaker 1: to grow to back and then But I feel like

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Speaker 1: somehow I didn't answer one of some questions. Oh, I know,

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Speaker 1: because you're yeah, it doesn't matter. You do whatever you

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Speaker 1: want to do. How I wound up singing, I just

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Speaker 1: wound up singing, like to make up little singing, little

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Speaker 1: songs acapella between poems to make it a little more interesting,

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Speaker 1: and then sort of wrapping poems. And it was just

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Speaker 1: organic from somebody just did it on your own. You

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Speaker 1: didn't see anybody else doing that, No, I mean I

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Speaker 1: saw like beat poets or I mean just I think

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Speaker 1: of everybody that I was influenced by at that time

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Speaker 1: of my life, Johnny Carson was the one. I just thought, like,

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Speaker 1: you didn't have drug problem either. Yeah, I'm not surprised,

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Speaker 1: but I mean, but just the fact that Johnny Carson,

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Speaker 1: his his his ability to improvise or to get himself

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Speaker 1: out of any situation. That was always what I was

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Speaker 1: looking for. If I was on stage, gotten a bad situation,

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Speaker 1: find my way out of it. You grew up in

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Speaker 1: South Jersey, and you're kind of tough. The way you

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Speaker 1: grew up. Your dad. What did your dad do for

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Speaker 1: a living? He was worked in a factory. She's waitress.

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Speaker 1: And how many kids in your family? Three girls, one boy?

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Speaker 1: And I was the oldest, oldest, And it was tough.

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Speaker 1: Well yeah, I mean it was financially tough. We had.

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Speaker 1: It was in those ways very tough. But in another

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Speaker 1: way we had it was very magical because I had

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Speaker 1: really great siblings. I had a great imagination, read hundreds

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Speaker 1: of books. My parents. We knew that they had a

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Speaker 1: lot of strife and stress, but you know, it was

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Speaker 1: just the world seems so magical. It wasn't so bad

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Speaker 1: for us. Books were my salvation, and so I I

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Speaker 1: didn't think of things. The only bad thing was when

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Speaker 1: I'd be hungry. I mean, truthfully, I like to eat.

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Speaker 1: I was really skinny and a real I was always hungry,

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Speaker 1: and that was my big Yeah, really skinny. And then

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Speaker 1: when you left home, where'd you go? New York? I

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Speaker 1: left when I was twenty and Basically I left to

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Speaker 1: get a job because in uh South Jersey and Philadelphia,

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Speaker 1: the New York shipyard closed down and there were like

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Speaker 1: thirty thousand jobs overnight were lost and there wasn't any work,

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Speaker 1: no matter how low a factory job, nothing, And there

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Speaker 1: was no more work, and I needed a job. So

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Speaker 1: I went to New York City to get a job.

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Speaker 1: And where'd you get a job? Um? In a bookstore.

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Speaker 1: I got a series of bookstores until I really landed

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Speaker 1: a great bookstore job in Scribner's Bookstore, and I worked

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Speaker 1: there for about five years. Doesn't it really tells a

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Speaker 1: lot about you? That really pretty much sums it up?

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Speaker 1: Your home in Jersey, you can't get a job, you're starving.

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Speaker 1: You going to New York to get a job. I

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Speaker 1: thought you were gonna say in a restaurant, Well, no idea,

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Speaker 1: it soon as you go to a bookstore a different

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Speaker 1: kind of food. But no, you know what happened. My

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Speaker 1: mother was a waitress and she tried to give me

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Speaker 1: a job at her counter, but I was so clumsy

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Speaker 1: and such a day dreamer, and she fired me. And

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Speaker 1: so then she was upset that I was leaving home,

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Speaker 1: but she got she let me take my white uniform

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Speaker 1: and my wedgies. So the first day I got I'm

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Speaker 1: one Time Square and of course Time Square was all

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Speaker 1: different than you know. And uh, I got a little

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Speaker 1: a job immediately because they needed a waitress at a place,

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Speaker 1: a little Italian place called Joe's Um on Times Square.

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Speaker 1: And within like two hours I dumped one of the

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Speaker 1: I had a giant tray as tripped and the whole

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Speaker 1: tray of veal parmisanas went on this woman's tweed suit.

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Speaker 1: Not only was I fired, but my three hours pay

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Speaker 1: went to her cleaning bill. So I went back to

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Speaker 1: port authority, left the waitress uniform and the wedgies in

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Speaker 1: the girl's bathroom and thought maybe somebody can use them

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Speaker 1: and h Then I looked around for a better job.

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Speaker 1: How does art, poetry, music come into your life when

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Speaker 1: you're in New York when you're twenty years old. Well,

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Speaker 1: first it was just getting a job. I didn't get

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Speaker 1: a job the first or second day. I mean I

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Speaker 1: was sleeping in the subway, sleeping in uh Central Park,

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Speaker 1: sleeping at the cemetery and Flushing or Greenwood or wherever

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Speaker 1: it was, and near where Herman Melville was buried, and uh,

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Speaker 1: it took a little while, and truthfully, it wasn't really

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Speaker 1: until I met I met Robert Maplethorpe, and uh we

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Speaker 1: met a couple of times. But I was in a

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Speaker 1: bit of a jam because a grown up asked me

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Speaker 1: to go out to eat. He was probably forty, but

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Speaker 1: I was like twenty. To me, seemed like, you know,

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Speaker 1: he was a grown up, you know, And uh, I

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Speaker 1: was really afraid that my mother used to say, don't

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Speaker 1: go out with a stranger because you know, they just

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Speaker 1: want one thing. And I thought, I was so hungry,

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Speaker 1: and he said he would take me to dinner. And

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Speaker 1: he took me to the Empire State Building diner, and

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Speaker 1: I remembered to this day he ordered, uh we ordered.

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Speaker 1: He ordered me swordfish and it was five dollars, and

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Speaker 1: I thought he's going to want everything for five dollars.

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Speaker 1: And I was petrified, and so I I ate that

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Speaker 1: I couldn't even eat it. And I'm so angry, I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna eat. Maybe I should leave now, Yeah, exactly, not

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Speaker 1: that door. But these potatoes are so good of just

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Speaker 1: a couple of more potatoes that I'm going to write

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Speaker 1: out that door. He'll never know. No, I didn't know

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Speaker 1: what to do. Then when we walked, no, we didn't.

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Speaker 1: We didn't have any dessert. We walked all the way

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Speaker 1: down to uh Tompkins Square Park and we were sitting

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Speaker 1: there and then all of a sudden, he said, I

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Speaker 1: have an apartment right around here. Would and he asked

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Speaker 1: me if I wanted to. It was really creepy. He

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Speaker 1: actually had like it's like like a turtleneck, a white turtleneck,

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Speaker 1: I remember, and a medallion. I mean, it was really powers.

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Speaker 1: That's so funny. Now he was supposed to be a

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Speaker 1: science fiction writer, but I was. And when he said that,

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Speaker 1: I thought, oh my god, this is the moment, you know,

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Speaker 1: and everything my mother ever told me for like ten

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Speaker 1: years of my life. And I was sitting there paralyzed,

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Speaker 1: figuring out what to do. And I looked and I

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Speaker 1: see Robert Maplethorpe coming, you know, up through it just coming.

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Speaker 1: It's almost like a cloud parted and here he comes

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Speaker 1: with like long curly hair and a sheepskin vest and

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Speaker 1: you know, and his dungarees. And I had only met

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Speaker 1: him once or twice, and I didn't even know his name,

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Speaker 1: and I just met him sort of, And so I

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Speaker 1: ran up to him, and I said, uh, do you

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Speaker 1: remember me? And he goes yeah, And I said, will

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Speaker 1: you pretend you're my boyfriend? And he says okay. So

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Speaker 1: I bring him to the science fiction guy and I said,

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Speaker 1: this is my boyfriend. He's really mad. I gotta go goodbye.

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Speaker 1: And then I said to Robert, this is so stupid,

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Speaker 1: but I didn't. I said run, and Robert and I ran.

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Speaker 1: We ran, we ran, we ran away. And uh and

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Speaker 1: now the guy on the turtleneck with the medallion on

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Speaker 1: is the president elect of the United States. Boy, did

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Speaker 1: you play your cards wrong? You know? And then my

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Speaker 1: life began. Life began that night because Robert and I

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Speaker 1: just roamed around. We roamed around the East Village and

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Speaker 1: everywhere all night long till two in the morning, just

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Speaker 1: talking away. And finally, almost simultaneously, we both said, do

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Speaker 1: you have a place to stay? Neither one of us

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Speaker 1: had anywhere to live, We didn't have any money, but

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Speaker 1: the differences. Robert had knew some kids of Pratt and

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Speaker 1: he knew he knew how to get the key to

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Speaker 1: this one guy's apartment where his art was stored. So

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Speaker 1: we went there and we went to his place and

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Speaker 1: he showed me all his drawings and what he was doing,

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Speaker 1: and after that night we became inseparable, and that set us,

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Speaker 1: at least me on a path, you know where of

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Speaker 1: drawling and painting and evolving and writing poetry. And yeah,

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Speaker 1: we've we've yes through through many things. Yeah, well I

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Speaker 1: was going to get into that. But you're with him

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Speaker 1: for a long long time, and then things change for

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Speaker 1: you as well in terms of your career. Well, I

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Speaker 1: mean at first. I mean, the thing is is that

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Speaker 1: I never cared about a career. I have to say,

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Speaker 1: none of those things, um being in a business, music, business, career, money.

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Speaker 1: What what I always wanted, no matter how conceded it sounds,

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Speaker 1: is I wanted to do something great. I wanted to

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Speaker 1: write something as great as Pinocchio or The Scarlet Letter,

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Speaker 1: or you know, just do something wonderful, write a wonderful book.

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Speaker 1: I didn't really care about and still don't. I don't

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Speaker 1: care about having a career or any of that stuff.

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Speaker 1: I do my work and in the process I've had

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Speaker 1: some great successes. I've had things that have had me

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Speaker 1: banned from the world. I've had you know, I've I've

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Speaker 1: been in trouble, I've done you know, I've left it

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Speaker 1: all behind. It's not important to me. It's always important

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Speaker 1: to me. Is really just to do something good, to

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Speaker 1: do something that's uh duran Patti Smith talking about her

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Speaker 1: relationship with the artist Robert Maplethorpe. If you're enjoying this

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Speaker 1: show from our archives, did you know we have over

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Speaker 1: two and fifty more available for your listening pleasure. Be

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Speaker 1: sure to check them out and Here's the Thing dot Org.

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Speaker 1: After the break, Alec and Patti Smith talked about her

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Speaker 1: marriage to mc fives bred Sonic Smith, and motherhood. I'm

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Speaker 1: Kathleen Rousseau and you're listening to Here's the Thing. Let's

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Speaker 1: get back to Alex's conversation with Patti Smith and what

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Speaker 1: her career really means to her. So when you started

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Speaker 1: to have success, was that something that was because it

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Speaker 1: was so unfamiliar to you? There are those people who

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Speaker 1: I'm not going to say the word failure. They're more

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Speaker 1: comfortable and anonymity than they are being successful and famous

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Speaker 1: because it's familiar. Did you find that when you were

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Speaker 1: becoming famous as a musician, because primarily you became famous

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Speaker 1: as a musician as well. At first in the beginning,

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Speaker 1: I had my first big success with this song I

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Speaker 1: wrote with Bruce Springsteen because the night I thought it

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Speaker 1: was thank you, I thought it was I thought it

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Speaker 1: was exciting to have a song on the radio. I

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Speaker 1: didn't think of it in terms of success or failure.

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Speaker 1: It was just really cool to be on the radio.

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Speaker 1: And back then, you know, having a single and meant,

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Speaker 1: you know, your kurds were in the window and and

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Speaker 1: you could, you know, you played bigger places and met

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Speaker 1: more people. But by nine seventy nine, truthfully, I could

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Speaker 1: see that success was to keep going. You I was

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Speaker 1: doing less work, less meaningful work, evolving less as a

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Speaker 1: person and an artist, and just get more successful. And

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Speaker 1: I thought, that's that's not why I was put on

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Speaker 1: the planet. I wasn't put on the planet to you know,

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Speaker 1: climb the ladder of success. I was here to do

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Speaker 1: certain kind of work. And so um I left. I

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Speaker 1: left the music business in seventy nine. You separated from

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Speaker 1: Maple Well. Robert and I separated as a couple in

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Speaker 1: like seventy two, but never as we were just the same,

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Speaker 1: only we weren't, you know, doing it anymore, you know,

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Speaker 1: But we didn't change how we were. We were always

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Speaker 1: just the same. We were just you know, had different

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Speaker 1: physical partners. So we never quite really separated and were

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Speaker 1: with him and still connected him even when he was

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Speaker 1: very second, when he was and when he died. Oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean we you know, I'm still connected with him.

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Speaker 1: I still think about him every day, and the things

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Speaker 1: that I learned from him or that we we did

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Speaker 1: together inform the work that I do. I mean, we

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Speaker 1: we bonded so young through art. I mean, of course,

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Speaker 1: you know, we were boyfriend and girlfriend. We did all

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Speaker 1: the things young people do. But I think that is

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Speaker 1: as he felt freer and freer as an artist in

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Speaker 1: a human being his nature. First he had to come

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Speaker 1: out as an artist. Then the next thing that happened

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Speaker 1: is he blossomed and felt his sexual nature. We had

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Speaker 1: to weather that. We had to, you know, try to

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Speaker 1: navigate what this meant, what it meant to our relationship,

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Speaker 1: what it meant and and it was difficult, and it

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Speaker 1: took a few years because neither one of us wanted

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Speaker 1: to part, But eventually we had to part as boyfriend

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Speaker 1: and girlfriend because he had to be who he needed

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Speaker 1: to be. When did you meet your husband, you eventually

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Speaker 1: got married. I met my husband in nineteen seventy six

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Speaker 1: in Detroit, and I was on the road and I

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Speaker 1: met him in Detroit and I saw him. It was

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Speaker 1: it's like a it's really like a song. I saw

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Speaker 1: him across a crowded room. He was just standing there

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Speaker 1: and it blew overcoat. I didn't know who he was,

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Speaker 1: and I thought, that's the boy I'm going to marry.

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Speaker 1: I swear to you that's true. How old were you

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Speaker 1: at the time. I was about seventy six. I was

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Speaker 1: about twenty eight. I don't know. Did you walk up

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Speaker 1: and tell him that right? No, no, not at all.

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Speaker 1: But Lenny Kay actually introduced us and he said, Fred Smith,

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Speaker 1: Patti Smith. We just looked at each other and I

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Speaker 1: don't know, and we finally, Um, we had a long

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Speaker 1: distance relationship, in fact, because the night we had a

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Speaker 1: long distant relationship and neither one of us had a

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Speaker 1: whole lot of money, and to make phone calls was expensive,

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Speaker 1: long distance calls. I always to this day I hear

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Speaker 1: people my boyfriend only called me three times today, and

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Speaker 1: I think, Jesus, you know, it's like I'd have to

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Speaker 1: wait all week to get one phone call from from

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Speaker 1: Fred And um, actually, am I going off the course too,

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Speaker 1: there is no core, is no course. Yeah, you're my

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Speaker 1: kind of guy. I'm your kind of passage. I'm your

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Speaker 1: kind of passenger too, because the autopilot about thirty minutes ago. Now,

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Speaker 1: I mean, I'm we're not going anywhere in particular because

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Speaker 1: I don't know how to drive and I have no

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Speaker 1: sense of direction. I'm a really good passenger because I

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Speaker 1: can never tell if anybody's lost, you know, And I

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Speaker 1: apply that to all every part of life. But when

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Speaker 1: you met your husband, and what did he do? Was

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Speaker 1: he a musician? He's a He was a musician, He

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Speaker 1: played with the MC five. He was a master guitarist.

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Speaker 1: He was really one of our great guitarist and h

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Speaker 1: and he's just such a beautiful man. You know. We

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Speaker 1: just decided, you know, we we wanted to evolve as

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Speaker 1: human beings, and he wanted children, and we just we

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Speaker 1: just decided to withdraw from public life and really know

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Speaker 1: each other and when when we had children, they would

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Speaker 1: really know who we were. And and so we did.

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Speaker 1: How long until his he passed away in the end

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Speaker 1: of ninety four, so sixteen years, sixteen years? What was

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Speaker 1: it like did you paint? I know, I didn't paint

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Speaker 1: because um it was just the way our living quarters were.

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Speaker 1: I didn't really have the space to do something like that,

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Speaker 1: but I wrote every day. I could have never written

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Speaker 1: just kids or the books that I'm writing now, had

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Speaker 1: I not had sixteen years of enforced discipline, because I've

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Speaker 1: always been very undisciplined. And then unless I had a

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Speaker 1: job or something. But then having a children, um I had.

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Speaker 1: I had to learn to wake up at five in

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Speaker 1: the morning and from five to eight was my writing time.

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Speaker 1: Everybody was asleep, it was my time. And it was

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Speaker 1: really hard at first, but then after a while I

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Speaker 1: got in a groove and I still right early in

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Speaker 1: the morning, and I really learned how to develop my craft.

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Speaker 1: And uh, it was hard because there's no cafes around,

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Speaker 1: there was no bookstores, a lot of things. The biggest,

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Speaker 1: the most hardest thing is in New York, you can

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Speaker 1: walk out the door and get a cup of coffee

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Speaker 1: in about two minutes practically anywhere, but where I was,

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Speaker 1: the closest thing was seven eleven, which was about, you know,

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Speaker 1: half a mile away, so I'd have to every Saturday,

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Speaker 1: I'd walked to seven eleven, my cafe, get a glazed donut,

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Speaker 1: and the coffee, and I was I was in town,

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Speaker 1: you know. But but I love my life. It wasn't

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Speaker 1: easy because you know, I had to do all the

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Speaker 1: we we did everything. We didn't have nannie's or housekeepers

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Speaker 1: or even babysitters. We did everything. And I'm not the

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Speaker 1: most adept at stuff. You know, some of my poor kids,

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Speaker 1: you know, their school uniforms and stuff. My daughter's little pleaded,

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Speaker 1: you know, jumper was like always a little jagged e

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Speaker 1: and their blouses in their shirts were a little dingier

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Speaker 1: than the other because I didn't like using bleach and

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Speaker 1: things like that. But but I I love my kids,

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Speaker 1: I love my husband, you know. And it was a

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Speaker 1: lot of certain amount of sacrifice and and uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: but I was talking about you because I just find

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Speaker 1: this so interesting that was there much talk about you,

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Speaker 1: like getting back, getting back in there and getting back

390
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Speaker 1: into your life to make money as a breadwinner for

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Speaker 1: everybody's been well, when we really really need I always

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Speaker 1: always feel like I got to work all the time. Well,

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Speaker 1: when we really needed money, we lived so simply. I

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00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:51,359
Speaker 1: mean when we really needed money. In eighty six, we

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Speaker 1: did one record together and that kept us going. And

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Speaker 1: but it's just you know, I um, I I liked

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Speaker 1: my life. I never I didn't expect to be on

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Speaker 1: the great Stages of Europe, you know. To me, it

399
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Speaker 1: was really fantastic that I got the opportunity. I never

400
00:25:15,640 --> 00:25:18,679
Speaker 1: thought I would do a record, but in doing so,

401
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Speaker 1: I got to travel, which in I never thought I

402
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Speaker 1: would ever have the money to travel and go to Finland,

403
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Speaker 1: you know. But uh, but I mean all the places.

404
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Speaker 1: I'm just joking, but I did get to go to Finland,

405
00:25:30,840 --> 00:25:33,640
Speaker 1: even though I had never dreamed of going to Finland.

406
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Speaker 1: But I mean I got to all the places. I

407
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Speaker 1: saw Paris and Rome and Vienna and all these places

408
00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:46,160
Speaker 1: because I had a band and sang and did records.

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Speaker 1: But it wasn't it wasn't my focus in life. It

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Speaker 1: wasn't my great great vision. And so when I didn't

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Speaker 1: do it, I was grateful that I got the opportunity.

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Speaker 1: But I wasn't mourning the situation that I wasn't doing it.

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Speaker 1: You know, I wasn't missing the applause. It wasn't like

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Speaker 1: a Judy Garland movie or something. I just you know,

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00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:13,080
Speaker 1: I felt you know, really happy righting, you know, watching

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Speaker 1: my kids grow. I did what I needed to do.

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Speaker 1: I was happy. But you have the experience to be

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Speaker 1: a mother. Oh yeah, I love My kids are awesome.

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Speaker 1: And the funny thing is, I mean, I'm not embarrassed

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Speaker 1: to say this because my kids know. I never wanted kids.

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00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:30,040
Speaker 1: I just wanted to be an artist. I didn't want

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Speaker 1: to have kids. And I came from a big family

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Speaker 1: and I helped raise my siblings, and I just wanted

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Speaker 1: to be free. And it was Fred who wanted children,

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Speaker 1: and I loved him so much, and I thought, well,

426
00:26:42,280 --> 00:26:45,040
Speaker 1: I can do that, you know I But I never

427
00:26:45,119 --> 00:26:49,840
Speaker 1: expected to just love my kids so much and just

428
00:26:49,960 --> 00:26:53,439
Speaker 1: love being a mother. And since Fred died when he

429
00:26:53,480 --> 00:26:58,480
Speaker 1: was forty five, you know, I have them. I have them.

430
00:26:58,680 --> 00:27:02,840
Speaker 1: I see so much of him in them, not just

431
00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:06,920
Speaker 1: in the way they look or certain gestures, but even

432
00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:10,720
Speaker 1: in their music. The tones of my son's guitar. He'll

433
00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:13,840
Speaker 1: be playing a guitar solo. He never heard his father

434
00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:18,760
Speaker 1: play guitar because they were quite young. It's Fred's tones.

435
00:27:19,359 --> 00:27:23,479
Speaker 1: Jesse at the piano, she is just his feel. Was

436
00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:26,720
Speaker 1: writing songs difficult and kind of laborious? Did they come

437
00:27:26,760 --> 00:27:30,560
Speaker 1: to you? Were both? Well? I I mean, writing songs

438
00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:33,840
Speaker 1: isn't my first vocation, and I I it's I'm not

439
00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:37,560
Speaker 1: as fastile at writing songs as other things. Also since

440
00:27:37,600 --> 00:27:40,159
Speaker 1: I don't really only I play a few chords on

441
00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:43,679
Speaker 1: the guitar, so I can figure out some things. But

442
00:27:43,840 --> 00:27:47,359
Speaker 1: sometimes songs come. Songs are so strange. Sometimes they just

443
00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:50,879
Speaker 1: come as a gift. I've woke up in the morning

444
00:27:50,920 --> 00:27:52,960
Speaker 1: and there's a song there and I quick write it down.

445
00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:56,440
Speaker 1: It just comes full with the music and the words.

446
00:27:57,119 --> 00:28:01,080
Speaker 1: And then there's other songs that have taken three years too,

447
00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:05,880
Speaker 1: you know, have a piece of music and write words,

448
00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:10,560
Speaker 1: but it's it's labor songwriting, and there's a lot of responsibility,

449
00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:17,080
Speaker 1: um responsibility to the composer because most of my songs,

450
00:28:17,119 --> 00:28:20,200
Speaker 1: the music was written by a band member or Fred

451
00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:26,359
Speaker 1: and uh and and so you want to please them.

452
00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:29,240
Speaker 1: But it also has to be something that I can sing.

453
00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:33,679
Speaker 1: But the easiest, one of the easiest things was to

454
00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:38,920
Speaker 1: write UM too because the night because Bruce, I had

455
00:28:39,440 --> 00:28:44,600
Speaker 1: a cassette with a it was a demo, and I

456
00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:47,720
Speaker 1: really didn't want to listen to it. You know. It

457
00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:50,240
Speaker 1: was given to me by my producer, Jimmy Ivan, and

458
00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:54,080
Speaker 1: he coax Bruce into let me finish it. Bruce couldn't

459
00:28:54,120 --> 00:28:57,440
Speaker 1: figure out he was having trouble writing verses to the song.

460
00:28:57,760 --> 00:29:00,920
Speaker 1: He had the chorus, and Jimmy gave it to me,

461
00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:04,640
Speaker 1: and I didn't want to listen to it because I thought, um,

462
00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:07,520
Speaker 1: I wanted to write. I wanted my band to write

463
00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:11,080
Speaker 1: their own songs. And uh. And Bruce is from like

464
00:29:11,120 --> 00:29:14,280
Speaker 1: a different part of New Jersey than me, and he's

465
00:29:14,280 --> 00:29:16,560
Speaker 1: sort of in the middle, and I'm from South Jersey

466
00:29:16,680 --> 00:29:20,560
Speaker 1: and it's like, I really, I just didn't want, you know,

467
00:29:21,280 --> 00:29:25,720
Speaker 1: and sort of a middle pollute your song in which

468
00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:33,240
Speaker 1: SAPs don't bring that middle Jersey. I know, I'm from

469
00:29:33,240 --> 00:29:35,640
Speaker 1: New Jersey, it's just I'm from like the cooler part

470
00:29:35,720 --> 00:29:41,040
Speaker 1: of Jersey. But I was That's what I was saying before.

471
00:29:41,080 --> 00:29:43,400
Speaker 1: But one night I was waiting. Jimmy had given me

472
00:29:43,440 --> 00:29:46,040
Speaker 1: this tape when we were doing this album Easter, and

473
00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:48,560
Speaker 1: every night Jimmy would say, hey, listen to the tape,

474
00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:50,760
Speaker 1: to listen to the tape, to listen to the tape,

475
00:29:51,080 --> 00:29:53,480
Speaker 1: and I said, uh, not yet, and he called me

476
00:29:53,560 --> 00:29:55,600
Speaker 1: up to listen to the tape, to listen to the tape.

477
00:29:56,120 --> 00:29:59,360
Speaker 1: Uh not yet. So you know, it was just sitting

478
00:29:59,400 --> 00:30:05,320
Speaker 1: there in my little apartment on McDougall Street. And uh so, anyway,

479
00:30:05,360 --> 00:30:07,360
Speaker 1: Fred was supposed to call me, and it was like

480
00:30:07,440 --> 00:30:10,840
Speaker 1: seven and I got already. I look cool, and I'm

481
00:30:10,880 --> 00:30:13,080
Speaker 1: sitting there and the phone sitting there, and I'm waiting

482
00:30:13,080 --> 00:30:18,400
Speaker 1: for Fred to call. And seven goes by seven thirty.

483
00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:21,880
Speaker 1: No Fred, you know, say eight o'clock. I'm pacing around,

484
00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:25,360
Speaker 1: and you know, I was like obsessive, you know, I wanted,

485
00:30:25,560 --> 00:30:27,880
Speaker 1: you know, the phone call, and I couldn't. I was

486
00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:30,360
Speaker 1: just pasting and pacing, couldn't figure out what to do

487
00:30:30,400 --> 00:30:33,320
Speaker 1: with myself. And I noticed this the darn tape, and

488
00:30:33,360 --> 00:30:36,680
Speaker 1: I thought, listen to that darn tape. So I put

489
00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:40,040
Speaker 1: it on my cassette machine and put it on and

490
00:30:40,080 --> 00:30:43,120
Speaker 1: I listened to it, and it's in my key, perfectly

491
00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:47,440
Speaker 1: arranged anthemic has a really great chorus, and I thought

492
00:30:47,960 --> 00:30:51,880
Speaker 1: it's one of those darn hits. It's just you know, yeah.

493
00:30:52,200 --> 00:30:55,360
Speaker 1: So I listened to it and it was, you know,

494
00:30:55,400 --> 00:30:58,120
Speaker 1: it was captivating, and I'm waiting for Fred and waiting

495
00:30:58,160 --> 00:31:01,440
Speaker 1: for Fred. Finally he calls me up like eleven o'clock

496
00:31:01,480 --> 00:31:05,480
Speaker 1: at night. But when he called me, because it took

497
00:31:05,520 --> 00:31:09,520
Speaker 1: so long, um, I had finished all the lyrics to

498
00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:13,160
Speaker 1: the song and uh. That's why in the second verse

499
00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:18,840
Speaker 1: that says, Lisie have idell when I'm alone, love is

500
00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:23,360
Speaker 1: a ring the telephone. I was waiting for Fred to

501
00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:29,520
Speaker 1: call so and uh, so I wrote the words and

502
00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:33,880
Speaker 1: uh and and thanks to Bruce, I had my my

503
00:31:33,920 --> 00:31:40,040
Speaker 1: first hit. Alex spoke with Patti Smith before a live

504
00:31:40,080 --> 00:31:44,120
Speaker 1: audience in two thousand sixteen. Now to one of my

505
00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:49,719
Speaker 1: most heartfelt teenage crushes, Peter Frampton. He arrived early at

506
00:31:49,720 --> 00:31:51,920
Speaker 1: the studio in two thousand twelve and I had the

507
00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:54,840
Speaker 1: privilege to sit down and talk with him before his

508
00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:58,880
Speaker 1: conversation with Alec. He was so down to earth and friendly,

509
00:31:59,040 --> 00:32:02,360
Speaker 1: and mostly we talked about his children. Both Alec and

510
00:32:02,400 --> 00:32:04,880
Speaker 1: I are huge fans, so we were so looking forward

511
00:32:04,920 --> 00:32:08,240
Speaker 1: to this interview, which began with Peter's obsession with sound.

512
00:32:09,560 --> 00:32:14,680
Speaker 1: Sound is very inspirational to me. I remember the reason

513
00:32:14,760 --> 00:32:18,800
Speaker 1: that I wanted to learn guitar was because I heard

514
00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:22,280
Speaker 1: the sounds of all these people on TV and on

515
00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:27,840
Speaker 1: the radio electric guitar very young and something. I have

516
00:32:27,920 --> 00:32:31,360
Speaker 1: a very acute sense of sound, and I've always had

517
00:32:31,400 --> 00:32:34,120
Speaker 1: that if I don't have a good sound, I can't

518
00:32:34,120 --> 00:32:38,880
Speaker 1: play very well, so I've always worked out what makes

519
00:32:38,880 --> 00:32:41,920
Speaker 1: a good sound? How do you get a good sound technically?

520
00:32:42,080 --> 00:32:45,040
Speaker 1: And then one of the first sessions I ever did,

521
00:32:45,760 --> 00:32:49,280
Speaker 1: Bill Wyman of The Stones produced it when I was fourteen,

522
00:32:49,880 --> 00:32:53,360
Speaker 1: and the first engineer I worked with was Glynn Jones,

523
00:32:53,880 --> 00:32:56,440
Speaker 1: who is if people don't know, he's one of the

524
00:32:56,480 --> 00:33:00,080
Speaker 1: most famous engineers of all Stones engineer, Yeah, Zapp and

525
00:33:00,280 --> 00:33:05,480
Speaker 1: Eagles that the band everybody yea humble by and then

526
00:33:05,800 --> 00:33:08,920
Speaker 1: being a gadget freak early on, I just was over

527
00:33:09,120 --> 00:33:10,960
Speaker 1: like a little birdie on their shoulder and I was,

528
00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:14,240
Speaker 1: what's that? What are you doing there? I just learned

529
00:33:14,320 --> 00:33:18,280
Speaker 1: how to engineer, So I really enjoy that part of

530
00:33:18,320 --> 00:33:23,280
Speaker 1: it as well, immensely. How do you end up as

531
00:33:23,280 --> 00:33:27,600
Speaker 1: a fourteen year old and Wyman wants to produce your

532
00:33:28,760 --> 00:33:32,000
Speaker 1: I started playing guitar just before I was eight years old,

533
00:33:32,200 --> 00:33:37,200
Speaker 1: and we're either your parents musical yes, um in England, Yes,

534
00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:41,920
Speaker 1: about twelve miles south of London and Bromley, Kent, and

535
00:33:44,240 --> 00:33:47,600
Speaker 1: my mother was definitely would have been an entertainer. She was,

536
00:33:48,040 --> 00:33:51,760
Speaker 1: but my grandparents wouldn't allow her to become an actress.

537
00:33:51,800 --> 00:33:55,440
Speaker 1: She wanted to be an actress. Her father was a singer. Yes,

538
00:33:55,520 --> 00:33:59,160
Speaker 1: we have a lot of musical jeans. And dad, my

539
00:33:59,280 --> 00:34:03,720
Speaker 1: dad played his teacher artist. He played guitar in a

540
00:34:03,800 --> 00:34:08,920
Speaker 1: college dance band before the war, before he was more

541
00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:11,919
Speaker 1: into his art, but he did. He was the one

542
00:34:11,960 --> 00:34:15,280
Speaker 1: that taught me how to sing Michael Rowe the boat,

543
00:34:15,760 --> 00:34:19,080
Speaker 1: you know, with two chords basically and then hang down

544
00:34:19,120 --> 00:34:21,880
Speaker 1: your head. Tom Dooley was another big effort. Then it

545
00:34:21,920 --> 00:34:25,880
Speaker 1: was Eddie Cochrane, Buddy Holly and our English the Shadows,

546
00:34:25,920 --> 00:34:29,279
Speaker 1: Cliff Richard and the Shadows. So that's how I started

547
00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:33,719
Speaker 1: playing guitar because of American music. Obviously, that's what we

548
00:34:33,760 --> 00:34:36,520
Speaker 1: all did, and we were all clamoring for American music

549
00:34:36,600 --> 00:34:40,160
Speaker 1: before the Beatles and then so I was known in

550
00:34:40,600 --> 00:34:44,839
Speaker 1: locally as this young, little upstart, good guitar player, very young.

551
00:34:45,480 --> 00:34:48,680
Speaker 1: Ended up in a semipro band still at school that

552
00:34:48,800 --> 00:34:50,880
Speaker 1: had the drummer that was the original drummer of the

553
00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:53,960
Speaker 1: Rolling Stones called Tony Chapman, who introduced Bill to the

554
00:34:54,000 --> 00:34:56,760
Speaker 1: Stones that he didn't end up staying in the Stones,

555
00:34:56,840 --> 00:35:00,080
Speaker 1: and Bill felt he owed him a a favor. I

556
00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:02,879
Speaker 1: would say said, look, put a band together and I'll

557
00:35:02,880 --> 00:35:05,879
Speaker 1: produce it. And he comes into the music shop. I'm

558
00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:10,640
Speaker 1: working on the saturdays when I'm about fourteen and restringing

559
00:35:10,640 --> 00:35:13,880
Speaker 1: guitars for the guy there. He said, I want you

560
00:35:13,920 --> 00:35:16,560
Speaker 1: to be in my band, you know. I said, well,

561
00:35:16,640 --> 00:35:18,680
Speaker 1: I have to speak to dad, you know sort of thing.

562
00:35:19,640 --> 00:35:21,800
Speaker 1: The first thing I know, we're in a van. We

563
00:35:21,920 --> 00:35:26,479
Speaker 1: pick up Bill Wyman and Penge who sits in the front.

564
00:35:26,520 --> 00:35:28,960
Speaker 1: The van goes very quiet. We've got a rolling stone

565
00:35:28,960 --> 00:35:31,080
Speaker 1: in the front seat. We go up to London and

566
00:35:31,200 --> 00:35:37,000
Speaker 1: I meet Glenn John's and we make a record like

567
00:35:37,080 --> 00:35:39,440
Speaker 1: everyone is talking about soul, did or you know what

568
00:35:39,480 --> 00:35:43,080
Speaker 1: I mean? Record? It was called A Hole in My

569
00:35:43,160 --> 00:35:45,919
Speaker 1: Soul and it was a cover of an American song

570
00:35:46,239 --> 00:35:49,759
Speaker 1: and what was the name of the band, The Preachers.

571
00:35:49,800 --> 00:35:53,040
Speaker 1: So that was it, and so music was your entire life. Yes,

572
00:35:53,200 --> 00:35:56,400
Speaker 1: you're in the guitar shop and Kent, Yeah, fixing strings

573
00:35:56,400 --> 00:35:59,040
Speaker 1: on guitars from people shining guitars, And the next thing

574
00:35:59,040 --> 00:36:00,960
Speaker 1: you know, build my mean's in the car and you're

575
00:36:00,960 --> 00:36:03,399
Speaker 1: off to go and do hold my soul at the Preachers. Yes,

576
00:36:04,640 --> 00:36:07,480
Speaker 1: I mean like you woked around us so much. Fiddle,

577
00:36:09,320 --> 00:36:12,799
Speaker 1: what year is this? This is sixty four? So the

578
00:36:12,800 --> 00:36:15,200
Speaker 1: stones were and the Beatles were in full swing by then. Yes,

579
00:36:16,080 --> 00:36:19,840
Speaker 1: we did. That year the Stones were given Ready Steady Go.

580
00:36:20,000 --> 00:36:22,839
Speaker 1: They took over the show Ready Steady Go for one week,

581
00:36:23,120 --> 00:36:25,279
Speaker 1: and each one of the Stones had their choice of

582
00:36:25,840 --> 00:36:29,239
Speaker 1: act to be on, you know, and of course Bill

583
00:36:29,320 --> 00:36:32,920
Speaker 1: chose us. So I'm on TV when I'm just before

584
00:36:33,000 --> 00:36:37,759
Speaker 1: I'm i turned fifteen? Is there If anybody's got it,

585
00:36:37,800 --> 00:36:40,319
Speaker 1: Bill's got it because he's he's the historian, you know.

586
00:36:40,440 --> 00:36:44,920
Speaker 1: But that was pretty amazing. Do you miss living in England?

587
00:36:45,080 --> 00:36:47,040
Speaker 1: You're such an American in so many ways. You lived

588
00:36:47,040 --> 00:36:50,600
Speaker 1: here for years. Han two years seventy seventy five, I

589
00:36:51,040 --> 00:36:55,000
Speaker 1: came to New York. Actually I missed my family, my

590
00:36:55,080 --> 00:36:58,200
Speaker 1: brother and his family. I miss friends and stuff, but

591
00:36:58,680 --> 00:37:02,680
Speaker 1: my children are here. When I first came to America

592
00:37:02,760 --> 00:37:06,640
Speaker 1: with Humble Pie and I turned on the radio, I said,

593
00:37:06,880 --> 00:37:09,799
Speaker 1: I'm moving here, it just seemed like this was the place.

594
00:37:09,840 --> 00:37:11,480
Speaker 1: It was all happening with the old and this is

595
00:37:11,480 --> 00:37:14,520
Speaker 1: the yeah. And I'd lived through the swinging sixties of London,

596
00:37:14,640 --> 00:37:18,160
Speaker 1: you know, and that was exciting too. And I love England,

597
00:37:18,160 --> 00:37:20,520
Speaker 1: don't get me wrong, I just don't think I would

598
00:37:20,640 --> 00:37:22,839
Speaker 1: ever live there again. I was just i'd be too

599
00:37:22,840 --> 00:37:26,920
Speaker 1: far from my kids. Yeah, so when you finish the

600
00:37:26,920 --> 00:37:30,840
Speaker 1: Hole in my soul on the show with Bill Wyman,

601
00:37:30,920 --> 00:37:36,439
Speaker 1: he's your selection there on the show. What happens then? Then, Um,

602
00:37:36,480 --> 00:37:42,399
Speaker 1: I'm sixteen. It's school holidays in the summer of big

603
00:37:42,480 --> 00:37:47,040
Speaker 1: local band The Herd come to me and say, we

604
00:37:47,080 --> 00:37:50,400
Speaker 1: saw you in the breaches and we're having a change around.

605
00:37:50,400 --> 00:37:53,200
Speaker 1: Would you come and and help us out for the summer?

606
00:37:54,480 --> 00:37:56,880
Speaker 1: So I said, okay. So it gets close to September

607
00:37:56,880 --> 00:37:58,960
Speaker 1: when I'm going to go back to school, and they said,

608
00:37:59,760 --> 00:38:03,279
Speaker 1: here's an offer. We want you to be the lead

609
00:38:03,320 --> 00:38:06,320
Speaker 1: guitarist and the lead guitarist going to play bass, and

610
00:38:06,600 --> 00:38:08,640
Speaker 1: we want to be a four piece out of five piece,

611
00:38:08,680 --> 00:38:11,440
Speaker 1: and would you join the Herd? I said, oh, I

612
00:38:11,480 --> 00:38:13,800
Speaker 1: had to hear. I've got to go back to school,

613
00:38:13,840 --> 00:38:16,239
Speaker 1: do my sixth form, get my A levels and go

614
00:38:16,280 --> 00:38:18,680
Speaker 1: to Guildhall School and the music That was my plan

615
00:38:18,760 --> 00:38:22,040
Speaker 1: to go to music college, you know Beard right at

616
00:38:22,120 --> 00:38:27,719
Speaker 1: least Yeah, I haven't even had a shandy yet, you know.

617
00:38:29,880 --> 00:38:32,120
Speaker 1: So I went to Dad and Mom and I said, look,

618
00:38:32,160 --> 00:38:34,400
Speaker 1: I really want to do. This is a professional band.

619
00:38:34,440 --> 00:38:38,640
Speaker 1: You know, they're great, They're a big band, and my

620
00:38:38,719 --> 00:38:41,640
Speaker 1: dad said, well, and they knew that this was on

621
00:38:41,680 --> 00:38:44,520
Speaker 1: the cards, you know, this was coming up that they

622
00:38:44,560 --> 00:38:46,560
Speaker 1: knew by this time I was going to be a musician.

623
00:38:46,640 --> 00:38:50,000
Speaker 1: And so he said, well, look, if you left here

624
00:38:50,040 --> 00:38:52,200
Speaker 1: and you've got a job at the post office, you

625
00:38:52,360 --> 00:38:56,279
Speaker 1: get fifteen pounds a week. I want to get an

626
00:38:56,280 --> 00:38:59,440
Speaker 1: assurance from this band that you're going to get fifteen

627
00:38:59,440 --> 00:39:01,640
Speaker 1: pounds of week. I said, well, if he can do

628
00:39:01,719 --> 00:39:03,520
Speaker 1: that deal, that that'll be great. I don't think they

629
00:39:03,520 --> 00:39:06,120
Speaker 1: earn enough to pay themselves sifting both. He said, well

630
00:39:06,120 --> 00:39:09,000
Speaker 1: that's what you I'm going minimum wage for you. So

631
00:39:09,080 --> 00:39:11,080
Speaker 1: that was the last deal my dad did for me,

632
00:39:12,280 --> 00:39:15,399
Speaker 1: because we started to become a little better and earn

633
00:39:15,480 --> 00:39:18,640
Speaker 1: more money. Beginning, they couldn't pay themselves fifty. Eventually it

634
00:39:18,680 --> 00:39:21,359
Speaker 1: was a bargain, yeah, because they paid me fifteen. They

635
00:39:21,400 --> 00:39:24,880
Speaker 1: got upstein. So that was the end of him as

636
00:39:24,880 --> 00:39:37,000
Speaker 1: a manager. Everything changed and the Herd became had like

637
00:39:37,120 --> 00:39:42,080
Speaker 1: three big top ten hits and and I became very

638
00:39:42,120 --> 00:39:46,759
Speaker 1: well known in Europe as a guitar player singer. Now

639
00:39:46,920 --> 00:39:49,080
Speaker 1: by the time you leave the Herd, you leave them

640
00:39:49,080 --> 00:39:53,319
Speaker 1: in what year the herd after the the these three

641
00:39:53,719 --> 00:39:56,799
Speaker 1: big hits and an album. We realized that we were

642
00:39:56,840 --> 00:40:00,960
Speaker 1: losing money still and there was no reason because we

643
00:40:01,000 --> 00:40:03,680
Speaker 1: saw the figures what was coming in and what we

644
00:40:03,680 --> 00:40:06,600
Speaker 1: were getting paid and all that. So we reached out

645
00:40:06,680 --> 00:40:10,399
Speaker 1: and Steve Merritt and Ronnie Lane of the Small Faces said, look,

646
00:40:10,400 --> 00:40:13,120
Speaker 1: we've been through this. We've been screwed, you know, by

647
00:40:13,200 --> 00:40:16,640
Speaker 1: management or business manager or whatever. They clued us in,

648
00:40:16,719 --> 00:40:18,879
Speaker 1: which was very nice to them, and said they help

649
00:40:18,960 --> 00:40:21,640
Speaker 1: us produce a track or two on on the next

650
00:40:21,680 --> 00:40:24,160
Speaker 1: album we were going to do, which they did. Meanwhile,

651
00:40:24,239 --> 00:40:27,480
Speaker 1: I'm sitting in with the Small Faces now at various

652
00:40:27,800 --> 00:40:31,920
Speaker 1: functions and and wanted to join the Small Faces. That

653
00:40:32,080 --> 00:40:35,360
Speaker 1: wasn't to be. Steve wanted me to join the Small Faces,

654
00:40:35,400 --> 00:40:38,719
Speaker 1: but they weren't so thrilled with that. So in the

655
00:40:38,880 --> 00:40:41,600
Speaker 1: end Steve called me up and said, look, I've left

656
00:40:41,600 --> 00:40:43,959
Speaker 1: the Small Faces, let's form a band. And that's how

657
00:40:44,440 --> 00:40:49,880
Speaker 1: Humble Pie basically formed in right at the end of in.

658
00:40:51,360 --> 00:40:54,000
Speaker 1: So you with Humble Pie and you're in England, yes,

659
00:40:54,239 --> 00:40:59,560
Speaker 1: and you perform with them for how many years? Four years?

660
00:40:59,560 --> 00:41:01,719
Speaker 1: So how would you characterize that period for stuff? Did

661
00:41:01,760 --> 00:41:05,920
Speaker 1: you enjoy it? Unbelievable? They were very popular. Yes in

662
00:41:05,920 --> 00:41:10,040
Speaker 1: the States as well. Yes, that band brought me to America.

663
00:41:11,000 --> 00:41:13,280
Speaker 1: That's where we started when I met I mean probably

664
00:41:13,280 --> 00:41:16,239
Speaker 1: one of the first gigs I met Bill Graham. You know,

665
00:41:17,640 --> 00:41:20,239
Speaker 1: you realized now when I look back, it was the

666
00:41:20,280 --> 00:41:25,440
Speaker 1: beginnings of the creation of rock and roll shows. Truly.

667
00:41:25,920 --> 00:41:28,800
Speaker 1: Bill Graham was the guy on how to do it live?

668
00:41:29,239 --> 00:41:32,360
Speaker 1: And why did Humble Pie? And a couple of reasons.

669
00:41:33,880 --> 00:41:37,560
Speaker 1: I was feeling claustrophobic in the band because we started

670
00:41:37,560 --> 00:41:41,360
Speaker 1: off very democratic and doing it all different types of music,

671
00:41:41,800 --> 00:41:46,040
Speaker 1: and now our our stage act was narrowing, and we

672
00:41:46,040 --> 00:41:49,640
Speaker 1: were just doing more more of that heavy rock and roll,

673
00:41:49,640 --> 00:41:56,080
Speaker 1: which I love, Don't get me wrong. That's my riff,

674
00:41:56,200 --> 00:41:59,759
Speaker 1: I Don't need no Doctor. That's me jamming the sound

675
00:41:59,840 --> 00:42:04,080
Speaker 1: check in Madison Square Garden, and Steve just jumped up

676
00:42:04,080 --> 00:42:05,960
Speaker 1: on the stage and started singing, I Don't need no

677
00:42:06,040 --> 00:42:21,439
Speaker 1: Doctor over that riff. He and I were very much singing. Yeah. Yeah.

678
00:42:21,680 --> 00:42:23,879
Speaker 1: He's the one that says it's been a gas. Yeah,

679
00:42:24,200 --> 00:42:28,600
Speaker 1: we go home on Mond on Monday. But what I'm

680
00:42:28,640 --> 00:42:36,160
Speaker 1: tell's the oh, he was probably a couple of years old,

681
00:42:36,200 --> 00:42:41,240
Speaker 1: and you feel claustrophobic, white because we want. I wasn't

682
00:42:42,640 --> 00:42:45,120
Speaker 1: being able to do the music, all of this music

683
00:42:45,160 --> 00:42:47,960
Speaker 1: that I wanted to do. Humble Pie started off really

684
00:42:48,040 --> 00:42:51,920
Speaker 1: split between acoustic and electric. And also I was coming

685
00:42:51,920 --> 00:42:56,319
Speaker 1: into my own and Steve and I fought like brothers. Yes,

686
00:42:56,440 --> 00:42:59,600
Speaker 1: that's which, which is why humble Pie was so fiery.

687
00:42:59,640 --> 00:43:04,080
Speaker 1: I think because musically it was phenomenal. You know, sometimes

688
00:43:04,120 --> 00:43:08,200
Speaker 1: we degree and sometimes we just wouldn't agree. It was

689
00:43:08,280 --> 00:43:11,080
Speaker 1: very sad for me because I knew it would upset them,

690
00:43:11,080 --> 00:43:13,400
Speaker 1: but I just felt that I had to. It was

691
00:43:13,480 --> 00:43:15,440
Speaker 1: time to go on. And did you know where you

692
00:43:15,480 --> 00:43:18,799
Speaker 1: wanted to go? No idea. I knew that I was.

693
00:43:19,840 --> 00:43:22,040
Speaker 1: I didn't want to form another band. I wanted to

694
00:43:22,040 --> 00:43:25,839
Speaker 1: become a solo artist. Why because I wanted to make

695
00:43:25,880 --> 00:43:30,239
Speaker 1: all the decisions because I'm a complete control freak. Did

696
00:43:30,239 --> 00:43:33,759
Speaker 1: you feel you wanted Yeah, you wanted wanted to try

697
00:43:33,880 --> 00:43:37,800
Speaker 1: things that Yeah, I wanted to try things that maybe

698
00:43:37,800 --> 00:43:39,800
Speaker 1: other people wouldn't want to try. You know, I wanted

699
00:43:39,840 --> 00:43:42,400
Speaker 1: to do it. And I have to say that it

700
00:43:42,440 --> 00:43:45,239
Speaker 1: wouldn't have been I wouldn't have had a solo career

701
00:43:45,320 --> 00:43:48,120
Speaker 1: had it not been for Humble Pie. I learned so

702
00:43:48,239 --> 00:43:51,560
Speaker 1: much from working with Steve Marriott. I have to hand

703
00:43:51,640 --> 00:43:55,120
Speaker 1: him a lot of the credit for the sort of

704
00:43:55,160 --> 00:43:57,919
Speaker 1: things that he introduced me to listen to as well,

705
00:43:58,040 --> 00:44:01,879
Speaker 1: music blues and Build Black Bow and stuff like that.

706
00:44:01,880 --> 00:44:05,239
Speaker 1: That was really influential to me. So that's why it

707
00:44:05,320 --> 00:44:08,799
Speaker 1: was a bitter sweet thing leaving. I wanted to leave,

708
00:44:08,840 --> 00:44:10,680
Speaker 1: but I didn't want to leave. And then, of course,

709
00:44:10,719 --> 00:44:13,680
Speaker 1: as soon as I left the live album that I

710
00:44:13,719 --> 00:44:16,400
Speaker 1: had a big hand in mixing, because I'm the gadget

711
00:44:16,400 --> 00:44:19,960
Speaker 1: freak in the engineer with Eddie Kramer rock in the

712
00:44:20,000 --> 00:44:24,000
Speaker 1: film or Comes Out, I've left right at that point

713
00:44:24,560 --> 00:44:27,399
Speaker 1: and it zooms up the charts. It's Humble Pie's first

714
00:44:27,400 --> 00:44:33,839
Speaker 1: gold record, and I'm going, holy crap, that's it. It's

715
00:44:33,920 --> 00:44:36,920
Speaker 1: the first big blooper of my career. You know, I

716
00:44:37,320 --> 00:44:39,360
Speaker 1: made a big mistake. It was like Dad's back on

717
00:44:39,440 --> 00:44:45,279
Speaker 1: the job in the office game. I frammed them this time, Yes,

718
00:44:45,400 --> 00:44:49,160
Speaker 1: absolutely so. Then it was four studio albums before we

719
00:44:49,239 --> 00:44:52,160
Speaker 1: did Comes Alive, you know, and a lot of a

720
00:44:52,280 --> 00:44:54,799
Speaker 1: lot of touring and where are you living then? You

721
00:44:54,880 --> 00:44:59,120
Speaker 1: still I was still living in England until seventy five,

722
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:04,600
Speaker 1: and I finished the fourth solo record in England and

723
00:45:04,640 --> 00:45:08,640
Speaker 1: then moved over. I actually moved to New York and

724
00:45:08,760 --> 00:45:16,160
Speaker 1: stayed at the Mount Kisco Holiday Inn on New Year's Eve. Yes,

725
00:45:16,200 --> 00:45:19,959
Speaker 1: So basically the first day of seventy five was I

726
00:45:20,000 --> 00:45:24,440
Speaker 1: was now living in America. When you do comes Alive,

727
00:45:25,280 --> 00:45:27,920
Speaker 1: how much of the music on that is new music

728
00:45:27,960 --> 00:45:29,480
Speaker 1: on an album? How much of it was stuff you

729
00:45:29,520 --> 00:45:33,160
Speaker 1: mind from the previous four solo albums. It was basically

730
00:45:33,360 --> 00:45:39,520
Speaker 1: all stuff that came from the four studio albums. And

731
00:45:40,440 --> 00:45:43,960
Speaker 1: rock On from shine On was a humble Pie track

732
00:45:44,040 --> 00:45:46,920
Speaker 1: that I had written. It was actually from five albums,

733
00:45:46,960 --> 00:45:51,480
Speaker 1: So it's like six years worth of work mining that

734
00:45:51,520 --> 00:45:54,359
Speaker 1: went into that one live record. And for people who

735
00:45:54,440 --> 00:45:58,360
Speaker 1: don't know that live performance was recorded in multiple locations,

736
00:45:58,360 --> 00:46:01,399
Speaker 1: are in one. Most of it was one location, which

737
00:46:01,520 --> 00:46:06,440
Speaker 1: was winter Land in Sanrancisco, Bill Graham gig where The

738
00:46:06,520 --> 00:46:11,719
Speaker 1: Last Wars was filmed. Two nights before, we'd played the

739
00:46:11,760 --> 00:46:14,759
Speaker 1: Marine Civic Center, and we've done two shows there, so

740
00:46:14,800 --> 00:46:17,879
Speaker 1: we recorded that. I think a couple of numbers came

741
00:46:17,920 --> 00:46:20,760
Speaker 1: from there, do WI I think comes from there, maybe

742
00:46:20,760 --> 00:46:24,319
Speaker 1: one of the acoustic songs. But winter Land was the

743
00:46:24,400 --> 00:46:29,240
Speaker 1: first big headline show we'd ever done, I'd ever done

744
00:46:29,680 --> 00:46:32,120
Speaker 1: with my name on the ticket people were coming to

745
00:46:32,160 --> 00:46:37,840
Speaker 1: see me for because the album right prior to Comes

746
00:46:37,840 --> 00:46:41,600
Speaker 1: a Live Just Trampton was the biggest one so far,

747
00:46:41,680 --> 00:46:44,840
Speaker 1: biggest seller they had done, sold like three hundred thousand copies,

748
00:46:44,880 --> 00:46:47,440
Speaker 1: which was mega for me. That was better than all

749
00:46:47,440 --> 00:46:49,960
Speaker 1: the other things in that four album run. Prior to

750
00:46:50,000 --> 00:46:53,000
Speaker 1: the live album in winter Land, things were getting better

751
00:46:53,120 --> 00:46:58,280
Speaker 1: than that, they were, but that one was definitely setting

752
00:46:58,320 --> 00:47:02,320
Speaker 1: me up. It was setting me up for something. Peter

753
00:47:02,440 --> 00:47:06,520
Speaker 1: Frampton Alec Baldwin has interviewed a lot of rock legends

754
00:47:06,640 --> 00:47:09,359
Speaker 1: over the years on Here's the Thing, and you can

755
00:47:09,400 --> 00:47:11,520
Speaker 1: listen to all of them on the I Heart Radio app,

756
00:47:11,920 --> 00:47:15,839
Speaker 1: Spotify or wherever you get your podcast. After the break,

757
00:47:15,880 --> 00:47:18,800
Speaker 1: Peter Frampton talks to Alec about the making of Frampton

758
00:47:18,880 --> 00:47:23,000
Speaker 1: Comes Alive, one of the best selling live albums in history.

759
00:47:30,840 --> 00:47:34,240
Speaker 1: I'm Kathleen Russo and this is Here's the Thing. Frampton

760
00:47:34,320 --> 00:47:38,399
Speaker 1: Comes Alive has sold over eleven million copies worldwide. It's

761
00:47:38,400 --> 00:47:42,480
Speaker 1: a double album pulled from three venues, including winter Land

762
00:47:42,560 --> 00:47:48,960
Speaker 1: in San Francisco. Okay, so let's cut the bullshit. Let's

763
00:47:49,000 --> 00:47:53,080
Speaker 1: cut the bullshit. You're in winter Land and would you

764
00:47:53,120 --> 00:47:54,800
Speaker 1: say and the show goes on what time eight o'clock,

765
00:47:54,880 --> 00:48:00,759
Speaker 1: nine o'clock, nine o'clock, probably somewhere between. You pull up

766
00:48:00,760 --> 00:48:02,480
Speaker 1: to Winterland and you go out of quarter to nine.

767
00:48:02,719 --> 00:48:04,440
Speaker 1: The devil came in your room and made a deal

768
00:48:04,480 --> 00:48:06,680
Speaker 1: with you. Correct, you signed a deal with absolutely. The

769
00:48:06,719 --> 00:48:11,160
Speaker 1: devil showed up, poured himself a drink, sat down, said Peter. Peter, Peter, Peter.

770
00:48:11,320 --> 00:48:13,520
Speaker 1: Let's cut. Let's cut. It was Peter Cook. Actually it

771
00:48:13,600 --> 00:48:20,279
Speaker 1: was Peter Cook and he and the devil makes this

772
00:48:20,400 --> 00:48:24,560
Speaker 1: deal with you. Because what happened. First of all, there's

773
00:48:24,560 --> 00:48:29,160
Speaker 1: probably if I'm not mistaken, if there wasn't sent people

774
00:48:29,160 --> 00:48:31,800
Speaker 1: out there, then I thought there were set But it's

775
00:48:31,840 --> 00:48:35,120
Speaker 1: it definitely sounds like it. It's a big room. They

776
00:48:35,160 --> 00:48:38,240
Speaker 1: go nuts when we walk out, and it just takes

777
00:48:38,280 --> 00:48:40,319
Speaker 1: you to a different level. You know. It felt good.

778
00:48:41,120 --> 00:48:43,680
Speaker 1: It was one of those shows when you come off

779
00:48:43,680 --> 00:48:45,239
Speaker 1: and you look at the band and you just go,

780
00:48:45,640 --> 00:48:48,839
Speaker 1: I wish we'd recorded that. That was like so good man.

781
00:48:49,239 --> 00:48:52,279
Speaker 1: And then we went, oh, we did you know we

782
00:48:52,320 --> 00:48:55,239
Speaker 1: did recall that? We forgot we were do you see?

783
00:48:55,239 --> 00:48:59,120
Speaker 1: The event was so much more important than the recording.

784
00:48:59,520 --> 00:49:19,759
Speaker 1: I don't even remember the truck being there. The recording

785
00:49:19,880 --> 00:49:25,200
Speaker 1: is June of five minutes, released when we're still mixing,

786
00:49:26,440 --> 00:49:30,120
Speaker 1: right up before Christmas, and then it comes out, I believe,

787
00:49:30,280 --> 00:49:34,720
Speaker 1: on like January seventeenth or something like that, seventh, January

788
00:49:34,840 --> 00:49:39,880
Speaker 1: nine or what happens. Well, I knew we were going

789
00:49:39,920 --> 00:49:43,400
Speaker 1: to tour the whole year, so right after Christmas, I

790
00:49:43,440 --> 00:49:47,680
Speaker 1: went down to the Bahamas for ten days and relaxed.

791
00:49:47,960 --> 00:49:52,279
Speaker 1: Before I left, we had put one show on at

792
00:49:52,600 --> 00:49:57,960
Speaker 1: Cobo Hall in Detroit, which is a big rum and

793
00:49:58,120 --> 00:50:00,440
Speaker 1: that's all I knew. And so I go away and

794
00:50:00,480 --> 00:50:03,040
Speaker 1: I don't call anybody. I'm just on the beach and

795
00:50:03,200 --> 00:50:06,799
Speaker 1: snorkeling or whatever. I come back. We've sold four shows out,

796
00:50:07,080 --> 00:50:11,080
Speaker 1: and I said, what happened, you know? And the album

797
00:50:11,080 --> 00:50:13,480
Speaker 1: has just started to be on the radio, you know,

798
00:50:14,160 --> 00:50:18,680
Speaker 1: And that's when everything just went went through the roof,

799
00:50:18,880 --> 00:50:23,080
Speaker 1: you know, after all this time. People think it is overnight,

800
00:50:23,840 --> 00:50:27,239
Speaker 1: but it's not overnight in the scheme of things. But

801
00:50:27,239 --> 00:50:31,080
Speaker 1: but yes, but it's not overnight success, but it is.

802
00:50:31,680 --> 00:50:35,160
Speaker 1: It's a heady experience. Is just still the highest selling

803
00:50:35,200 --> 00:50:39,520
Speaker 1: live album of all time. It's in dispute, yeah, but

804
00:50:39,760 --> 00:50:43,080
Speaker 1: up there, yeah, because my record is only counted as

805
00:50:43,239 --> 00:50:47,960
Speaker 1: one one album. Certain other artists had it made so

806
00:50:48,040 --> 00:50:52,040
Speaker 1: that you could count, um, if you released six CD

807
00:50:53,000 --> 00:50:55,560
Speaker 1: live set, you can count it six times. Well, they

808
00:50:55,600 --> 00:50:58,759
Speaker 1: didn't do that retroactively, so in my mind it's still

809
00:50:58,760 --> 00:51:03,200
Speaker 1: the biggest selling. It was almost unbelievable the amount of success.

810
00:51:04,080 --> 00:51:07,800
Speaker 1: You get these phone calls in quick succession. Your number

811
00:51:07,840 --> 00:51:10,839
Speaker 1: one in in the charts, you know, and I'm going,

812
00:51:10,960 --> 00:51:13,960
Speaker 1: wait a second, say that one more time, and who

813
00:51:14,000 --> 00:51:19,320
Speaker 1: are you? And then within three or four weeks of that,

814
00:51:20,520 --> 00:51:23,400
Speaker 1: I get the call saying it's the biggest selling record

815
00:51:23,480 --> 00:51:27,799
Speaker 1: of all time. You've just outsold Carol King's Tapestry and

816
00:51:28,840 --> 00:51:30,840
Speaker 1: it's um. Was that the time you thought of you

817
00:51:30,880 --> 00:51:33,680
Speaker 1: had to start them in yourself? Yeah, it was crazy

818
00:51:33,920 --> 00:51:37,399
Speaker 1: because people just wanted to No, it was very don't

819
00:51:37,400 --> 00:51:39,960
Speaker 1: know how to deal with how people treat you differently exactly,

820
00:51:40,120 --> 00:51:45,400
Speaker 1: and being always being respectful, and and never really thinking

821
00:51:45,400 --> 00:51:48,640
Speaker 1: of myself as anything special because I've never been a

822
00:51:49,880 --> 00:51:53,840
Speaker 1: that's just not my character. I felt embarrassed that I

823
00:51:54,000 --> 00:51:57,960
Speaker 1: was that this entity became it was me over here,

824
00:51:58,040 --> 00:52:00,680
Speaker 1: you know. Yes, it was very hard to deal with.

825
00:52:01,280 --> 00:52:03,920
Speaker 1: But were you proud of the record? Oh my god, Yeah,

826
00:52:03,920 --> 00:52:08,520
Speaker 1: when something really big hits in the entertainment business, it's

827
00:52:08,560 --> 00:52:14,280
Speaker 1: like feast or famine. It's either it's not a hit, movie, record, whatever,

828
00:52:15,040 --> 00:52:19,239
Speaker 1: and nothing comes in, or it's like a blockbuster and

829
00:52:19,440 --> 00:52:22,320
Speaker 1: all this money comes in and it all comes into

830
00:52:22,440 --> 00:52:25,560
Speaker 1: one place. And when you see a pile of money

831
00:52:25,600 --> 00:52:29,240
Speaker 1: like this, it brings out thoughts that people didn't normally

832
00:52:29,280 --> 00:52:33,360
Speaker 1: have before. You know what I mean, it's the the

833
00:52:33,400 --> 00:52:37,759
Speaker 1: availability of all that cash all at once. You know that. Well,

834
00:52:37,840 --> 00:52:40,360
Speaker 1: especially in the music business, because nothing like the music

835
00:52:40,360 --> 00:52:43,320
Speaker 1: business for making money except for the fact that music

836
00:52:43,400 --> 00:52:46,160
Speaker 1: is free. Now well it's it is different now, yeah.

837
00:52:46,160 --> 00:52:50,560
Speaker 1: I mean you used to tour to promote the record.

838
00:52:51,680 --> 00:52:56,520
Speaker 1: Now you make the record to promote the tour. The

839
00:52:56,560 --> 00:52:59,120
Speaker 1: record is a giveaway, the c D is a giveaway.

840
00:52:59,480 --> 00:53:01,920
Speaker 1: The dollar you're on the live performing, Yes, that's how

841
00:53:01,920 --> 00:53:04,839
Speaker 1: it is for you. Well, yeah, that's all that's artists. Yeah,

842
00:53:04,880 --> 00:53:07,920
Speaker 1: and luckily my reputation is as a live performer. So

843
00:53:08,120 --> 00:53:11,600
Speaker 1: it's been phenomenal for me. But it's hard work touring,

844
00:53:11,680 --> 00:53:14,000
Speaker 1: but I love it, so that's not hard work for me.

845
00:53:14,280 --> 00:53:16,960
Speaker 1: You came into New York recently and you did that

846
00:53:17,000 --> 00:53:19,040
Speaker 1: at the Beacon here, in New York? Yes, how many

847
00:53:19,040 --> 00:53:22,640
Speaker 1: shows did you do? For most of thirteen months, we

848
00:53:22,640 --> 00:53:26,520
Speaker 1: were doing five shows a week and it's a three

849
00:53:26,560 --> 00:53:29,479
Speaker 1: hour show. So we were doing Comes Alive first, which

850
00:53:29,520 --> 00:53:32,280
Speaker 1: is an hour and forty, and then we were doing

851
00:53:33,160 --> 00:53:35,680
Speaker 1: excerpts from everything else in my career as well for

852
00:53:35,719 --> 00:53:39,000
Speaker 1: another hour and fifteen or twenty, you know, So it

853
00:53:39,120 --> 00:53:43,560
Speaker 1: was we were killing ourselves. How did it feel? Well?

854
00:53:43,560 --> 00:53:47,200
Speaker 1: It felt great. The place one nuts you know, they

855
00:53:47,280 --> 00:53:49,280
Speaker 1: just went't berserved. You know you're gonna do it again.

856
00:53:50,560 --> 00:53:53,400
Speaker 1: I don't know whether I'll do the entire thing again,

857
00:53:53,960 --> 00:53:59,360
Speaker 1: Comes Alive again? Not for a while anyway, damn it. No, No,

858
00:53:59,520 --> 00:54:03,040
Speaker 1: you've we filmed it and filmed it, yeah, at the

859
00:54:03,040 --> 00:54:05,200
Speaker 1: Beacon and in what are you do with that? Where

860
00:54:05,280 --> 00:54:07,399
Speaker 1: is that? Guy? It's gonna be a DVD. In fact,

861
00:54:07,600 --> 00:54:10,759
Speaker 1: that's where I'm going on Sunday to go back home

862
00:54:10,800 --> 00:54:12,759
Speaker 1: to my studio to mix the audio. What are you

863
00:54:12,760 --> 00:54:14,120
Speaker 1: gonna do when you're gonna release it as a dis

864
00:54:14,320 --> 00:54:19,680
Speaker 1: is a DVD? Now? Probably just be a DVD. And

865
00:54:20,040 --> 00:54:22,319
Speaker 1: I don't want to do this on TV. Oh i'd

866
00:54:22,320 --> 00:54:24,879
Speaker 1: love to. Yeah, have you got an in there? Maybe? Oh?

867
00:54:24,920 --> 00:54:26,719
Speaker 1: I can't believe if it's a doctor. Are there any

868
00:54:26,760 --> 00:54:30,600
Speaker 1: backstage footage? I've got the story and it's filmed of

869
00:54:30,680 --> 00:54:34,080
Speaker 1: when my guitar was returned. What happened to that guitar?

870
00:54:34,239 --> 00:54:38,600
Speaker 1: What's the story? Well, um, first of all, we're talking

871
00:54:38,600 --> 00:54:41,800
Speaker 1: about the guitar that's on the front cover of Comes Alive,

872
00:54:41,840 --> 00:54:44,200
Speaker 1: which I got given to me by Mark Mariana in

873
00:54:44,800 --> 00:54:47,640
Speaker 1: seventy when I was playing the film or West with

874
00:54:47,760 --> 00:54:51,560
Speaker 1: Humble Pie, and I was having a terrible time with

875
00:54:51,560 --> 00:54:54,719
Speaker 1: the guitar that I had at that that night, and

876
00:54:54,760 --> 00:54:57,239
Speaker 1: Mark said to me, you know, I could see you

877
00:54:57,320 --> 00:54:59,640
Speaker 1: having problems with that. You want to try my Les

878
00:54:59,680 --> 00:55:01,360
Speaker 1: Paul Tomorrow. I said, well, I'm not really big on

879
00:55:01,440 --> 00:55:03,759
Speaker 1: let's pause, but okay, all right, anything is better than this.

880
00:55:03,840 --> 00:55:05,920
Speaker 1: So he brought it to me. I played it. I

881
00:55:05,960 --> 00:55:08,000
Speaker 1: don't think my feet touched the ground the entire That's

882
00:55:08,040 --> 00:55:13,320
Speaker 1: the best guitar I've ever played. So then I played

883
00:55:13,360 --> 00:55:18,279
Speaker 1: that guitar on Rock On and also a Humble Pie

884
00:55:18,360 --> 00:55:20,360
Speaker 1: and also Rock in the film on. That's the guitar

885
00:55:20,400 --> 00:55:24,839
Speaker 1: I use on there. Basically I used that exclusively. It's

886
00:55:24,880 --> 00:55:28,600
Speaker 1: the only guitar I play all the way through all

887
00:55:28,600 --> 00:55:32,520
Speaker 1: my solo records and including Frampton Comes Alive and you

888
00:55:32,560 --> 00:55:34,680
Speaker 1: were never attempted to put that down, and that was it.

889
00:55:34,880 --> 00:55:38,920
Speaker 1: That was, yes, yes, it was just this one. I

890
00:55:39,000 --> 00:55:41,440
Speaker 1: had a fifty five strap that I would always use

891
00:55:41,520 --> 00:55:44,040
Speaker 1: for Show Me the Way because I needed a cleaner sound,

892
00:55:44,120 --> 00:55:46,160
Speaker 1: you know. So that was that was on Show Me

893
00:55:46,200 --> 00:55:50,960
Speaker 1: the Way. So then we get to touring South America.

894
00:55:52,480 --> 00:55:56,360
Speaker 1: We just finished playing Caracas, Venezuela and we had a

895
00:55:56,440 --> 00:56:01,880
Speaker 1: day off, and so we flew commercially to Panama waiting

896
00:56:02,239 --> 00:56:05,399
Speaker 1: for the gear to arrive on a cargo plane. While

897
00:56:05,400 --> 00:56:08,720
Speaker 1: it never got off the runway in Caracas, it crashed

898
00:56:08,719 --> 00:56:11,799
Speaker 1: on take off. My road manager came to me, I'm

899
00:56:11,800 --> 00:56:14,920
Speaker 1: having this huge meal on my day off with my

900
00:56:14,960 --> 00:56:17,239
Speaker 1: wife at the time, and he said, I got some

901
00:56:17,280 --> 00:56:20,120
Speaker 1: bad news and he says, the plane crashed on takeoff.

902
00:56:20,160 --> 00:56:26,520
Speaker 1: I said, my guitar, he said, and like six people

903
00:56:27,080 --> 00:56:29,880
Speaker 1: loading people, the pilot, co pilot, loading, inspector, all that.

904
00:56:30,400 --> 00:56:34,000
Speaker 1: So I mean, yeah, people died. So that took precedent

905
00:56:34,160 --> 00:56:36,480
Speaker 1: over everything. Then it put it in perspective, you know,

906
00:56:36,840 --> 00:56:39,960
Speaker 1: and there's the pilot's wife sitting at the bar who

907
00:56:40,040 --> 00:56:44,280
Speaker 1: doesn't know yet. It was horrendous. So anyway, we limped

908
00:56:44,520 --> 00:56:48,040
Speaker 1: through the end of that tour basically with borrowed equipment.

909
00:56:48,840 --> 00:56:51,440
Speaker 1: Sent someone down my guitar tech at the time a

910
00:56:51,480 --> 00:56:55,840
Speaker 1: week later to see what was left. Nothing was left, supposedly,

911
00:56:56,560 --> 00:56:59,480
Speaker 1: and what had happened. The tail had broken off. Guitars

912
00:56:59,560 --> 00:57:05,439
Speaker 1: were actually in a trunks in cases. And the way

913
00:57:05,480 --> 00:57:08,359
Speaker 1: the story goes is they had a god to guard

914
00:57:08,400 --> 00:57:11,000
Speaker 1: the crash side, the debris side. Util the insurance people

915
00:57:11,040 --> 00:57:13,920
Speaker 1: came down and he decided that the guitars would be

916
00:57:14,040 --> 00:57:18,560
Speaker 1: much safer at his house. Yes, and then Caracas. Yes.

917
00:57:18,960 --> 00:57:26,000
Speaker 1: In Caracas two years ago, which is thirty years thirty

918
00:57:26,120 --> 00:57:31,840
Speaker 1: years later, I opened my info at Frampton dot com

919
00:57:31,960 --> 00:57:34,800
Speaker 1: email because anybody can email me and I see them all.

920
00:57:35,320 --> 00:57:38,480
Speaker 1: I opened up this one and there's a picture of

921
00:57:38,600 --> 00:57:44,360
Speaker 1: photograph of my guitar slightly singed but but it's my

922
00:57:44,520 --> 00:57:49,160
Speaker 1: lastly right at the top, you know, slightly singed, but

923
00:57:49,520 --> 00:57:51,760
Speaker 1: but there it is. There's a picture, and I thought,

924
00:57:52,520 --> 00:57:56,400
Speaker 1: could this picture where in an email to me from

925
00:57:56,520 --> 00:58:01,080
Speaker 1: someone who would got ahold of the guitar. As it

926
00:58:01,200 --> 00:58:04,160
Speaker 1: happens in Kurasau, which is a little island off the

927
00:58:04,200 --> 00:58:10,120
Speaker 1: coast of Caracas, someone had sold it to this gentleman,

928
00:58:11,800 --> 00:58:14,640
Speaker 1: and he took it to someone who fixed guitars and

929
00:58:14,680 --> 00:58:17,800
Speaker 1: they knew what it was. And it took two years

930
00:58:17,840 --> 00:58:21,160
Speaker 1: of a very gray area and was he saying like,

931
00:58:21,200 --> 00:58:22,480
Speaker 1: I don't want to get proceed. I want to get

932
00:58:22,480 --> 00:58:24,240
Speaker 1: this guitariti, but I want to go to jail. That

933
00:58:24,320 --> 00:58:27,040
Speaker 1: was the thing. No one wanted to actually come money.

934
00:58:27,080 --> 00:58:30,160
Speaker 1: It wasn't about he wanted to There was money involved,

935
00:58:30,240 --> 00:58:32,600
Speaker 1: but he would have appreciated a gratuity. There was a

936
00:58:32,760 --> 00:58:35,720
Speaker 1: reward talked about, but every time it would get close

937
00:58:35,800 --> 00:58:39,160
Speaker 1: to someone coming in, they'd find something reason why they

938
00:58:39,160 --> 00:58:40,959
Speaker 1: couldn't come in. So that's why it took two years.

939
00:58:41,160 --> 00:58:44,120
Speaker 1: And then in the end the guy actually checked to

940
00:58:44,120 --> 00:58:46,360
Speaker 1: see if we had booked him a hotel because he

941
00:58:46,440 --> 00:58:49,800
Speaker 1: just saw himself in handcuffs at Miami Airport. You know,

942
00:58:50,520 --> 00:58:52,960
Speaker 1: he knew who had it, and the person who had

943
00:58:53,000 --> 00:58:55,240
Speaker 1: it needed some money, and so he went to the

944
00:58:55,280 --> 00:59:00,040
Speaker 1: tourist Bureau of Kurasau and said, look, if you and

945
00:59:00,200 --> 00:59:01,800
Speaker 1: me the money or give me the money to go

946
00:59:01,920 --> 00:59:03,840
Speaker 1: by this, I can find this. This is really great

947
00:59:04,280 --> 00:59:09,240
Speaker 1: tourism story for Curasao. And and they did, and they

948
00:59:09,320 --> 00:59:12,800
Speaker 1: came and the two of them, the tourism president of

949
00:59:12,840 --> 00:59:16,360
Speaker 1: the tourism board from the government, and the gentleman who

950
00:59:16,480 --> 00:59:19,880
Speaker 1: found the guitar, knew where it was, brought it to Nashville.

951
00:59:20,240 --> 00:59:23,600
Speaker 1: We had three cameras as soon as he waited in waiting,

952
00:59:24,000 --> 00:59:28,240
Speaker 1: and what happens while the two gentlemen walk in and

953
00:59:28,600 --> 00:59:32,240
Speaker 1: he's got it in this probably one of the worst

954
00:59:32,240 --> 00:59:35,320
Speaker 1: looking gigbags I've ever seen in my life, cheap, old

955
00:59:35,320 --> 00:59:38,600
Speaker 1: plastic thing. He puts it beside him, you know, and

956
00:59:38,640 --> 00:59:41,720
Speaker 1: he tells the story in broken English of how this

957
00:59:41,760 --> 00:59:44,120
Speaker 1: person had it and the whole thing. He hands it

958
00:59:44,200 --> 00:59:46,960
Speaker 1: to me and he goes Philip to Peter Philip so

959
00:59:47,120 --> 00:59:50,040
Speaker 1: and I know that he knows because it was the

960
00:59:50,160 --> 00:59:53,560
Speaker 1: lightest les Paul I'd ever played. So I just felt

961
00:59:53,600 --> 00:59:55,680
Speaker 1: it in the case and who this could be it?

962
00:59:55,920 --> 00:59:58,760
Speaker 1: You know, opened it up. I just looked at it

963
00:59:59,160 --> 01:00:01,160
Speaker 1: and I just feel it like that, and I go,

964
01:00:01,280 --> 01:00:04,080
Speaker 1: it's my guitar. How bad they was? It singed where

965
01:00:04,560 --> 01:00:08,440
Speaker 1: just round the very top it lost the binding around

966
01:00:08,520 --> 01:00:12,000
Speaker 1: the headstock. Did you get that replaced? No? I didn't.

967
01:00:12,400 --> 01:00:15,200
Speaker 1: I left it. I've left it with its battle scars.

968
01:00:16,080 --> 01:00:20,200
Speaker 1: Gibson made it playable so we re friended the Caracas

969
01:00:20,320 --> 01:00:23,760
Speaker 1: kiss and there is this sound the same. Does it

970
01:00:23,800 --> 01:00:31,360
Speaker 1: feel the same. Yeah, And when I first played it

971
01:00:31,400 --> 01:00:36,800
Speaker 1: at rehearsals with the band, everybody had this like cheshire

972
01:00:36,920 --> 01:00:40,280
Speaker 1: cat grin on their face because it has the sound

973
01:00:40,920 --> 01:00:45,720
Speaker 1: and it sounds like Frampton comes alive. You know, you

974
01:00:45,760 --> 01:00:47,640
Speaker 1: don't have to try too hard. And you got that

975
01:00:47,680 --> 01:00:52,120
Speaker 1: back when I got it back just before we started

976
01:00:52,160 --> 01:00:56,000
Speaker 1: touring in February and March for the last American leg,

977
01:00:56,280 --> 01:00:58,880
Speaker 1: I used it a little bit at rehearsals, and then

978
01:00:58,920 --> 01:01:00,800
Speaker 1: I brought it out for the first night at the Beacon.

979
01:01:01,480 --> 01:01:03,480
Speaker 1: I think the guitar is more famous than I am

980
01:01:03,520 --> 01:01:11,400
Speaker 1: now rock legend Peter Frampton. I'm Kathleen Russo. Thanks for

981
01:01:11,480 --> 01:01:14,040
Speaker 1: listening to my first attempt at hosting Here's the Thing.

982
01:01:14,800 --> 01:01:17,080
Speaker 1: Here's the Thing is brought to you by our Heart Radio.

983
01:01:17,480 --> 01:01:21,080
Speaker 1: We're produced by Carrie Donohue, Zach McNeice and yours truly

984
01:01:21,520 --> 01:01:25,480
Speaker 1: our engineers. Frank Imperial. Alec is back next week talking

985
01:01:25,480 --> 01:01:31,040
Speaker 1: with an amazing politician, California Democratic Assemblywoman Lorraina Gonzalez