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Speaker 1: You were tuned about Drive on your seven home of

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Speaker 1: the Black and Goal Steelers Nation Radio. Welcome back. I'm

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Speaker 1: Dale Lilli here with Matt Williamson. This is the Drive

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Speaker 1: on Steelers Nation Radio and Mett. Before we get we

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Speaker 1: dig into the Make of Fitzpatrick deal and all that stuff. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I wouldn't to make a note of something you mentioned

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Speaker 1: there in the previous segment about the one and two

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Speaker 1: year deals at the Steelers have signed guys too, and

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Speaker 1: the ages of the guys. A lot of guys here

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Speaker 1: that they've signed. I think this is the wave. This,

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Speaker 1: this is this is where the NFL is going now,

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Speaker 1: where you sign your stars like a make of Fitzpatrick,

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Speaker 1: a T. J. Watt. Those guys get the long term deals,

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Speaker 1: the four or the five year deal. It's the big

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Speaker 1: money that you're gonna give out those big deals the

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Speaker 1: other guys. And I wrote about this last week on

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Speaker 1: on d K Pittsburgh Sports. Um, you're seeing it for

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Speaker 1: the make a Deal when you wrote it. No, this

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Speaker 1: is that right after the right after the make a Deal. Um,

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Speaker 1: just the the this is becoming the way the wave

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Speaker 1: of the future in the NFL. You sign your stars

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Speaker 1: to the big deals. The mid tier guys who are

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Speaker 1: coming and getting those second contracts, instead of signing a

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Speaker 1: long term second contract that you're probably not going to

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Speaker 1: see the entire thing in a lot of cases. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: now you sign a one or even a two year

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Speaker 1: deal for okay money. I mean, you're you're gonna get

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Speaker 1: paid decent money, more obviously more than what you're making.

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Speaker 1: But it gives it gives the player freedom in that Okay,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna sign this deal. I'm gonna get a decent

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Speaker 1: signing bonus. Now, maybe my bass salary is not nothing great,

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Speaker 1: but I know I'm gonna see both years of this deal,

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Speaker 1: or for certainly the one year if I sign a

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Speaker 1: one year deal. And then it also it gives the

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Speaker 1: team's flexibility to sign more guys like this to these exactly.

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Speaker 1: You know, instead of signing Stephen Nelson to a four

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Speaker 1: year twenty I forget it was the twenty seven million

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Speaker 1: dollar deal the Steelers signed. You know that you get

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Speaker 1: four years out of Nelson. Yeah, and you didn't get

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Speaker 1: all four years at him because the last two years

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Speaker 1: of that deal are are are the deal is backloaded

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Speaker 1: to where he's you know, all of a sudden, he's

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Speaker 1: making eleven million dollars in year three. Well, he's not

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Speaker 1: an eleven million dollar player, so you cut him loose.

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Speaker 1: He goes somewhere else in science. Now a teams are

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Speaker 1: playing again that comp game. Yeah, the comp game here.

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Speaker 1: But you sign these guys a one or two year deals.

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Speaker 1: It gives you so much more flexibility for both the

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Speaker 1: team and the player. If that's say, for example, okay,

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Speaker 1: the Steelers just signed Larry Ogunjobi to a one year deal.

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Speaker 1: Let's say let's say Ogunjobi goes out and as a

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Speaker 1: Pro Bowl player this year, Yeah, right, which is everybody wins.

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Speaker 1: Everybody it has a great year, somebody again some but

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Speaker 1: he comes back that deal that he signed with Chicago,

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Speaker 1: He's a three year deal averaging thirteen and a half

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Speaker 1: million dollars a year. That was the average. Let's say

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Speaker 1: next year, he's he's just be He just turned twenty

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Speaker 1: eight the beginning of June. Somebody comes back and said, hey, Larry,

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Speaker 1: that's back to back years you had. He had seven

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Speaker 1: sacks last year. Let's say it gets nineties, sixteen or

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Speaker 1: seventeen over two years. You know, Now, all of a sudden,

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Speaker 1: somebody says, you know what we're gonna sign that guy

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Speaker 1: to a to a three year, fifty million dollar deal

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Speaker 1: with a bunch of guaranteed money. Yeah, okay, you know,

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Speaker 1: so the Steelers get potentially a compensatory pickback and return.

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Speaker 1: The player then gets the financial security that he wanted.

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Speaker 1: But you see, you're just seeing more of these these

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Speaker 1: The mid level guy signed these one year deals in

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Speaker 1: two year deals because they know the cap is going up.

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Speaker 1: That's what everybody knows. The cap is going up. The

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Speaker 1: teams know the cap is going up, so everybody wants

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Speaker 1: to have the financial flexibility to either go out two

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Speaker 1: years from now and spend two hundred fifty million dollars

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Speaker 1: because that's where the cap is gonna be at. And

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Speaker 1: the players know that in two years the cap is

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Speaker 1: gonna be a two million dollars. So today's six million

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Speaker 1: dollar player is tomorrow's twelve million dollar player, right. And

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Speaker 1: you know, I was about to say that the cost

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Speaker 1: of gases the same, but that's not true. The inflation

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Speaker 1: doesn't keep up with the cap. Well, at least put

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Speaker 1: that way. Um, yeah, you know, and really there's not

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Speaker 1: much risk for the teams, which they like. Okay, it's

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Speaker 1: a two year deal. It's a one year deal. If

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Speaker 1: this guy is terrible, even like the Witherspoon deal, if

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Speaker 1: he's the Miles Jack deal. If he's terrible this year,

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Speaker 1: they were not even really married to him for next year,

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Speaker 1: let alone the year after that. I mean, if he's horrible,

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Speaker 1: and you know, if you're the player, they're like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: there's some risk involved, your stock could go down, you

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Speaker 1: could get badly injured. But even if you get injured,

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Speaker 1: men since come a long way, you know, I mean,

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Speaker 1: unless it's a career ending injury, and we don't see

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Speaker 1: those nearly as much as we did ten twenty years ago,

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Speaker 1: You're still going to get a one year deal, prove

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Speaker 1: it deal the next time around most likely, you know,

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Speaker 1: And it's definitely worth it. And I think, like you said,

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Speaker 1: if I'm a player, or more more likely, if I'm

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Speaker 1: an agent, I want my client to be a free

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Speaker 1: agent in the off season of two two thousand twenty four,

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Speaker 1: like this cap is gonna go up massive. And not

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Speaker 1: only that, but if you're getting if I'm getting it,

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Speaker 1: let's say I get, uh, I sign one year deal

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Speaker 1: for four straight years as a player, and I get

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Speaker 1: Let's say each one of those contracts is we're seven

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Speaker 1: million dollars per year, but I get as signing bonus

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Speaker 1: each one of those years of four million dollars. I'm getting.

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Speaker 1: Somebody's writing me a check every spring for four million

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Speaker 1: dollars in handing it to me that I invest that. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I take that, and I just play. I pay my

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Speaker 1: bills with the with the salary that I get it.

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Speaker 1: So I'm getting I'm I'm getting a three million dollar

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Speaker 1: salary and it's split over seven team weeks during or

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Speaker 1: eight team weeks during the season. I can live on that.

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna live on that. The other stuff is gonna go. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: the other stuff is going in my investments and getting

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Speaker 1: five ten percent whatever. You know what I mean, it's

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Speaker 1: it's a it's a great you know to me, I've

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Speaker 1: said this before three or four years ago. I don't

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Speaker 1: think any NFL contracts. If you want these contracts to

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Speaker 1: be fully guaranteed, which is what the NFL p A wants,

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Speaker 1: this is how you do it. It kind of is

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Speaker 1: in a way. You know, you know what you're getting

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Speaker 1: because nobody and you're not signing a guy to a

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Speaker 1: one year, seven million dollar deal and then cutting him

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Speaker 1: more often than not. I mean he has to really

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Speaker 1: fall on his face for that to happen, or do

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Speaker 1: something dumb off the field or whatever. But time he's

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Speaker 1: gonna make the team and make that money, you know,

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Speaker 1: because he was good enough and he earned it. And

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Speaker 1: then the other part of the two is just the

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Speaker 1: age factor. Like everyone the Steelers are adding our twenty

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Speaker 1: four to seven neighborhood. I mean, those are your prime

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Speaker 1: years where you're you're not too beaten up, you're getting better,

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Speaker 1: you still have a really good feel for the league.

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Speaker 1: You don't have to coach them up about what it's

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Speaker 1: like to be an NFL player, or how to prepare

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Speaker 1: or what teams are trying to do to attack you.

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Speaker 1: Your strengths and weaknesses are known. At this point, you're

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Speaker 1: still hungry to make more. It's not like Albert Haynes

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Speaker 1: were as signing a big, fat contract and getting big

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Speaker 1: and fat, you know. I mean, like, you know, you

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Speaker 1: still have a lot to play for. There's still a

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Speaker 1: carrot at the end of the stick, and it just

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Speaker 1: makes a ton of sense. And one of the things

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Speaker 1: that Steelers fell victim to and they were winning games,

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Speaker 1: so I'm not really being critical, but there was a

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Speaker 1: stretch there where they had a lot of old guys

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Speaker 1: and a lot of young guys. You know, they didn't

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Speaker 1: have a lot of twenty seven year olds, you know.

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Speaker 1: I mean they had an old offensive line that have

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Speaker 1: been around the block, and then they had the draft class,

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Speaker 1: you know. And the beauty of what the Seelers have

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Speaker 1: been doing lately too is they're on depth left and

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Speaker 1: right much more than they used to. You know, they're

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Speaker 1: they're they're adding a lot of youth and depth at

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Speaker 1: the same time. Yeah, I mean, you couldn't afford to

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Speaker 1: do that when you had four you had six guys

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Speaker 1: who were making ten million plus dollars a year. You

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Speaker 1: don't have the money to do. You know, his prime,

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Speaker 1: you're thrilled about it, but yeah, when he's odd, it's

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Speaker 1: it's really hard to build a competent deep you know,

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Speaker 1: forty forty five players. Yeah. Uh, they built the make

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Speaker 1: up Fitzpatrick deal um signing him last week. It's it's

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Speaker 1: a four year, seventy three point six million dollar extension,

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Speaker 1: but they called to the five year deal. They do

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Speaker 1: this a lot with these things, so in essence, they

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Speaker 1: gave him the signing bonus today the day he starts,

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Speaker 1: I should say the day he signed a deal. But

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Speaker 1: you take super thrilled he gets that check we're talking about.

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Speaker 1: He gets that, he gets a seventh eve and a

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Speaker 1: half million dollars signing bonus. Um. They lower his his

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Speaker 1: south base salary in two from ten point six million

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Speaker 1: to four million dollars. So then you take that that

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Speaker 1: signing bonus, you cut that pro rate that over five

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Speaker 1: seasons instead of four mm hm, that makes sense. Trying

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Speaker 1: to cheating you almost get or whatever? Yeah, because that

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Speaker 1: knocks the signing bonus cost down to three and a

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Speaker 1: half million dollars a year. He did have a roster bonus,

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Speaker 1: a six D twenty four thousand dollars that they put

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Speaker 1: on that which brought his cap in it from They

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Speaker 1: moved his cap hit from ten point six million dollars

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Speaker 1: to eight point one to four million dollars. They saved

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Speaker 1: They saved two and a half million dollars a year

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Speaker 1: by signing make A. Fitzpatrick to a deal that averages

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Speaker 1: eighteen point four million dollars a year. And correct me

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Speaker 1: if I'm wrong, But they could have signed ogan job

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Speaker 1: either way, you know, right, they could have have to

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Speaker 1: do that. That's The great thing about this is, you know,

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Speaker 1: they still give themselves flexibility. They still have Yeah, they

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Speaker 1: still have cap space. The beautiful thing about this deal is, yes,

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Speaker 1: it's it's a it's a four year, eighteen point four

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Speaker 1: million dollar average on that there's only two seasons in

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Speaker 1: which he makes more than he counts more than eighteen

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Speaker 1: point four million dollars against the team's cap, and that's

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Speaker 1: in five. He's nine, he's nineteen million against the cap

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Speaker 1: and sixties twenty one point one million dollars against their cap.

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Speaker 1: When top safeties might be making right, he'll be He'll

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Speaker 1: be thirty years old at that point. And that that's

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Speaker 1: a position. We've seen the great players at that position

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Speaker 1: play well into their late thirties. The Roger woodsons that

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Speaker 1: Darren woodsons. I mean, he's a guy that takes care

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Speaker 1: of his body. He's certainly in that kind of you know, yeah,

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Speaker 1: he could get another deal coming out of that, you know,

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Speaker 1: at age thirty, get another deal presumably from the Steelers

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Speaker 1: if they if they want to that. You know, again,

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Speaker 1: this works out well for them, and it didn't break

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Speaker 1: the bank, you know, I know, everybody gets caught up

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Speaker 1: in the in the average cost of this, but you

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Speaker 1: can't do that when you're looking at NFL contracts. This

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Speaker 1: is a baseball or hockey or anything like that, where oh,

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Speaker 1: he signed a four year, eighty million dollars contracts, so

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Speaker 1: he's getting twenty million dollars every year. Not how it

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Speaker 1: works in the NFL, not even close. And again I'm

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Speaker 1: guilty of this too, but I mean I was saying

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Speaker 1: last segment, a lot of listeners, a lot of fans

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Speaker 1: either retrain their brain of how they look at the

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Speaker 1: Steelers the line well as cap stuff and salaries like

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Speaker 1: you mentioned. And you know, I asked you that open

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Speaker 1: Joey question because they didn't have to make move A

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Speaker 1: Minka in order to make a move B. They still

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Speaker 1: have enough flexibility before that. But by doing so, they

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Speaker 1: still freed up two million and then they can roll

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Speaker 1: that next year to the rolling the next year thing

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Speaker 1: is wonderful, you know, Yeah, absolutely, it's like found money. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: Like like my wife upstairs would love, you know, her

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Speaker 1: job at P and C if she could roll her

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Speaker 1: vacation days over, you know, like we didn't use it all,

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Speaker 1: just use it next year and then I'll take a

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Speaker 1: whole month off. You know, in most walks of life.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't work that way. Either use it or lose it. Well,

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Speaker 1: it doesn't lose it in this situation. So I And

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Speaker 1: the last thing I want to say is maybe this

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Speaker 1: having a GM with a strong CAP background might not

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Speaker 1: be such a bad thing, you know, Yeah, you know,

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Speaker 1: I think that's not that Omar wasn't involved before. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean he he was doing these kind of things before.

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Speaker 1: And I think this was something obviously they made a

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Speaker 1: concerted effort. I think they you know, after finally getting

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Speaker 1: themselves out of a situation where a year in and

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Speaker 1: year out they were up against the cap hm, they

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Speaker 1: were still able to be competitive on the Yes, I

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Speaker 1: think they want I think they've made a concerted effort

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Speaker 1: to say, hey, we're not going to put ourselves in

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Speaker 1: that kind of situation again unless we have a franchise quarterback. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: pick it turns into my homes let's go. You know,

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Speaker 1: that's a different, different thing altogether for years from now too. Right. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's the that's the other part of that equation. Like

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Speaker 1: it's just it just makes so much more sense that

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Speaker 1: you know, you can still you can still roster bud,

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Speaker 1: you still keep your stars. H but you can, you know,

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Speaker 1: the pieces around them can change, or you know you can. Okay,

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Speaker 1: this this didn't work out, for example, Joe Schobert didn't

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Speaker 1: work out, Okay, we'll try Miles Jack instead. Yeah, right, right,

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Speaker 1: right right, good point, you know. And what was I

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Speaker 1: gonna say about that? Oh? My latest article for d

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Speaker 1: k p S First Sports is about Wallace. And I

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Speaker 1: was reading some of the comments and some pretty smart

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Speaker 1: comments on there by the way, and someone asked me,

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Speaker 1: and not even asked me. It's more of just like

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Speaker 1: a reflections like, so, Matthew, do you agree with me

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Speaker 1: that now the Steelers Bay sackically have three number two corners,

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Speaker 1: but not at number one. I said, yes, I think

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Speaker 1: that's well said, you know, and I'm perfectly fine with it,

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Speaker 1: because first, you have a great pass rush, so okay,

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Speaker 1: I mean, I don't need Dion out there necessarily, and

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Speaker 1: these guys, if one doesn't work out, you still have

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Speaker 1: two others. You also have Manka that takes away all

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Speaker 1: the problems and takes away a lot of problems. And

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Speaker 1: somebody else mentioned you know, we kind of got on

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Speaker 1: the thread saying, well, you could still draft a corner

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Speaker 1: in the first round next year. If that's the best

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Speaker 1: player on the board, he might turn into a number

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Speaker 1: one and you don't have to pay him for four

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Speaker 1: years either, you know. Like I think that position is

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Speaker 1: a good spot that to show the flexibility of the

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Speaker 1: cap now along with ages. And the last note I

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Speaker 1: wanted to mention two is the stuff the Steelers have

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Speaker 1: gone through salary cap wise the last three or four

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Speaker 1: or five years really isn't much different than like what

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Speaker 1: the Bears are dealing with now or Atlanta. I mean,

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Speaker 1: Atlanta still playing Matt Ryan a ton of money, but

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Speaker 1: those teams are gonna win three games. That's the that's

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Speaker 1: the difference. Yeah, I mean, and it's a huge difference. Um,

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Speaker 1: you know when you when you look at it that way. Uh,

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Speaker 1: I just I look separate this organization at my point,

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Speaker 1: through the tough times, they still work in it. And

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Speaker 1: I don't know, I think people get caught up in

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Speaker 1: this whole number one cornerback thing too much. The reality

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Speaker 1: is there's like five of them in the league, and

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Speaker 1: the Steelers aren't gonna have that guy travel anyway, right, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you're not gonna They're they're left right, you know. So

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Speaker 1: if I just want to be solid at that position.

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Speaker 1: I want somebody who's not gonna kill me. Uh you

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Speaker 1: know who's who's going to be the obvious target out there? Yeah? Um,

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Speaker 1: well you don't want the Ravens defense from last year

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Speaker 1: was okay, Um, which who's the you know, wh where's

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Speaker 1: Anthony of Rhett? I'm just gonna throw at him all

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Speaker 1: day and then all of a sudden he's he's their

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Speaker 1: best guy when everybody else goes down. It didn't matter.

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Speaker 1: But early in the season when he was you know,

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Speaker 1: when he was replacing Marcus Peters and they you know,

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Speaker 1: they were still semi healthy. The rest of the defense,

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Speaker 1: you just threw it him. M hmm. Yeah. There's two

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Speaker 1: reactive positions in football. It's if you're a coverage player,

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Speaker 1: whether a linebacker, safety or of course a corner, or

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Speaker 1: if you're an offensive lineman in past protection. You're a

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Speaker 1: reactive player. You're reacting to what your opponent does. They

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Speaker 1: dictate things to you. And I agree with you because

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Speaker 1: you and I have talked about this a lot about

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Speaker 1: old lineman. I think in that instance, and on defense,

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Speaker 1: top three corners of the obvious one really top four

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Speaker 1: maybe your top six average guys, whether that's bush Jack,

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Speaker 1: you know, Edmunds whoever. I think you just don't want Waldo.

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Speaker 1: You know, I mean the old line. If I write

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Speaker 1: guard can't stop a soul, it doesn't really matter that

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Speaker 1: I have Anthony Muneo is at left hack. Yeah, people

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Speaker 1: are gonna just run of the You're gonna it's like

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Speaker 1: storming the castle too good. It's you know, the the

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Speaker 1: the the the invaders are gonna look to see where

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Speaker 1: the weak part of your wall is at, and they're

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Speaker 1: gonna go through that area. They're not going to try

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Speaker 1: to attack your your you know, your main gate, if

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Speaker 1: your main gate is the is the strongest part of

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Speaker 1: your castle. They're gonna find the weak part and that's

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Speaker 1: where they're gonna try to scale the wall. Yeah, the

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Speaker 1: term weakest link is for a reason because if all

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Speaker 1: the other links the chain are great, the chain isn't

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Speaker 1: the chain anymore. It's on. And I think that's very

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Speaker 1: true in those two positions, you know, pass protection and

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Speaker 1: pass coverage. Yes, agree with that. Um you know, so this,

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Speaker 1: this making Fitzpatrick deal again gives them financial flexibility. The

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Speaker 1: other nice thing about it again, with those low signing

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Speaker 1: bonuses each year, mhm, they can easily turn some of

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Speaker 1: his salary in future years into signing bonus. This is

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Speaker 1: an old fashioned Steelers deal, right. You know, it didn't

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Speaker 1: work out with a B, but it's basically worked out

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Speaker 1: with everyone else that they've done this with. Is Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you're one of our foundational players. Back to your point

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Speaker 1: of the Stars and Scrubs kind of league. You know

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Speaker 1: you could do it with can They're gonna do it

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Speaker 1: with what probably someday that we trust you to be

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Speaker 1: a Steeler, a teammate, a leader, a very good player.

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Speaker 1: In three years from now, we might call you up

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Speaker 1: and be like, hey, can we uh take a loan

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Speaker 1: from the Bank America. Yeah, we're gonna get We're gonna

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Speaker 1: change turn your eighteen million dollar salary this year. We're

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Speaker 1: gonna give you fifteen of that as signing bonus. And

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Speaker 1: it creates you know, cap space for us. It gives

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Speaker 1: you again a fifteen million dollar check. Uh, and it's

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Speaker 1: a win win for everybody. Stand. I don't know how

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Speaker 1: much time we have because I mean this is we're

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Speaker 1: getting into this, but had a really good conversation today

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Speaker 1: on my podcast Peacock and Williamson about how weird the

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Speaker 1: safety market is in the league, and the Steelers are

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Speaker 1: the best example. Like you and I talked about this

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Speaker 1: all the time. Edmonds is a really good player. And

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Speaker 1: if that guy would have been a second or third

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Speaker 1: round picks, your nation would be like, boy, that's a

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Speaker 1: home run pick. Plays every staff. We like him. He's

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Speaker 1: the strong. We following strong and safety free agency comes

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Speaker 1: and goes, and you get that guy for nothing this year,

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Speaker 1: you know, total bargain, team friendly deal, and then you pay.

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Speaker 1: Then you make his teammate, who is a better player

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Speaker 1: and is more valuable, the highest paid safety in the league.

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Speaker 1: But the whole market, the whole landscape in the NFL

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Speaker 1: at the safety position is like that. There's like five

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Speaker 1: dudes making a ton. There's no Tier two, kind of

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Speaker 1: a Tier three and a lot of Tier four guys.

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Speaker 1: And those Tier four guys are bargains, their quality starters.

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Speaker 1: They're not Minka that impacts the game like him and

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Speaker 1: takes the football away. And you know, people scheme around,

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Speaker 1: But you can get a pretty darn good number two safety, yeah,

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Speaker 1: at a nice price. And you know, actually Edmonds talked

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Speaker 1: about that when when you spoke to him at a

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Speaker 1: trade mini camp about how he was speaking with some

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Speaker 1: of the other safeties around the league. And and that

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Speaker 1: was the exact conversation. We'll sign a we're going to

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Speaker 1: sign one year deals. Yah, see how it goes this year,

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Speaker 1: and and you know, do it again next year. Um.

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Speaker 1: That's just you know, and if you're that guy, you

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Speaker 1: hope you get four or five picks that year, maybe

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Speaker 1: by luck, you know, you played just as well. And

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Speaker 1: someone says, okay, now we'll give you ten you know,

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Speaker 1: ten million or whatever. You know, that's just the reality

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Speaker 1: of the situation. It's an odd position right now, it

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Speaker 1: really is. But we're gonna take another break. He is

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Speaker 1: Matt Williamson. I am Dale Lally. You're listening to the

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Speaker 1: Drive here on Steelers Nation Radio. We're back after a

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Speaker 1: little week week's break there. Um, but we're gonna talk,

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Speaker 1: uh talk a little more NFL and Steelers football in

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Speaker 1: particular here when we come back on the drive here

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Speaker 1: on Steelers Nation Radio.