1 00:00:01,360 --> 00:00:04,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, rap right up. Podcast Elliot will beat out what's 2 00:00:04,800 --> 00:00:09,720 Speaker 1: up baby? Feeling like money? Right now? This is the 3 00:00:09,840 --> 00:00:12,440 Speaker 1: king of music publishing, man, it's the big John Platt. 4 00:00:12,520 --> 00:00:15,800 Speaker 1: How are you something? This is rare man. We appreciate you, brother, 5 00:00:16,160 --> 00:00:19,640 Speaker 1: very rare. What I'm happy to do. When I see 6 00:00:19,640 --> 00:00:22,680 Speaker 1: all When people see all these like Billboard Power executive 7 00:00:22,720 --> 00:00:24,439 Speaker 1: issues and stuff, your name comes up, like can you 8 00:00:24,440 --> 00:00:26,239 Speaker 1: tell a little bit of about love? Telling people a 9 00:00:26,239 --> 00:00:28,480 Speaker 1: little bit about like what you do for a living, 10 00:00:28,480 --> 00:00:31,200 Speaker 1: and why if you know the music industry, your name 11 00:00:31,240 --> 00:00:34,320 Speaker 1: just keeps coming up. Sure you know. I'm a music 12 00:00:34,320 --> 00:00:38,400 Speaker 1: publisher and I've been doing music publishing for over twenty 13 00:00:38,440 --> 00:00:41,080 Speaker 1: three years now. Um. I started the E M I 14 00:00:41,240 --> 00:00:44,480 Speaker 1: Music Publishing in n and I worked there for seventeen years, 15 00:00:44,800 --> 00:00:46,400 Speaker 1: and then when the company got sold, I left and 16 00:00:46,400 --> 00:00:48,760 Speaker 1: went to Warner chapel Um, which I am now the 17 00:00:48,800 --> 00:00:51,800 Speaker 1: chairman and CEO. I've won a chapel Um and so 18 00:00:51,840 --> 00:00:55,280 Speaker 1: I work with songwriters. That's my life now. It's servicing songwriters, 19 00:00:55,320 --> 00:00:57,520 Speaker 1: you know. Yeah, that's that's what I heard. The first 20 00:00:57,520 --> 00:01:04,319 Speaker 1: taste was a little record called TLC Waterfall. Yeah, brother, 21 00:01:04,319 --> 00:01:06,240 Speaker 1: by the name of Marcus ef. It's wrote that song. 22 00:01:07,240 --> 00:01:10,080 Speaker 1: Um a friend of mineam Erica Nory. When I first 23 00:01:10,080 --> 00:01:13,240 Speaker 1: started e M, I I wanted to sign um lyric 24 00:01:13,319 --> 00:01:15,520 Speaker 1: writers and a lot of people were signing producers at 25 00:01:15,520 --> 00:01:19,240 Speaker 1: that time, and so I asked Erica did she know 26 00:01:19,280 --> 00:01:21,880 Speaker 1: any lyrics writers because she wrote lyrics as well, and 27 00:01:21,920 --> 00:01:24,160 Speaker 1: she said, yes, there's just a couple of guys in Atlanta, 28 00:01:24,600 --> 00:01:26,720 Speaker 1: UM that you should meet. And I was going to 29 00:01:26,760 --> 00:01:29,840 Speaker 1: Atlanta and she said, this is when the TLC album 30 00:01:29,840 --> 00:01:34,800 Speaker 1: had just come out. Uh crazy, sexy cool, Yeah, second album, 31 00:01:35,480 --> 00:01:39,800 Speaker 1: second album, second album. And she said, there's these guys 32 00:01:40,160 --> 00:01:42,640 Speaker 1: Marc Quez and Brandon and you should meet them. And 33 00:01:42,680 --> 00:01:44,319 Speaker 1: I was like, okay, great. She's like, yeah, they've written 34 00:01:44,360 --> 00:01:46,039 Speaker 1: on a couple of projects. They have a couple of 35 00:01:46,040 --> 00:01:48,640 Speaker 1: songs on the TLC album. I said what songs are 36 00:01:48,720 --> 00:01:52,120 Speaker 1: they write and she said Waterfalls and the songs called 37 00:01:52,120 --> 00:01:54,600 Speaker 1: Wicked This Way It Comes. And I was like, Waterfalls, 38 00:01:54,640 --> 00:01:57,560 Speaker 1: That's like my favorite song on the album. Now, Waterfalls 39 00:01:57,600 --> 00:01:59,800 Speaker 1: wasn't a single yet at this time. Creep was the 40 00:01:59,800 --> 00:02:03,800 Speaker 1: same and Creep was exploding. Yeah yeah, yeah, Creep was 41 00:02:03,840 --> 00:02:07,080 Speaker 1: just starting to go. And so uh, I went to Atlanta, 42 00:02:07,680 --> 00:02:10,359 Speaker 1: track Marquez down and It took a long time to 43 00:02:10,400 --> 00:02:12,320 Speaker 1: get it done because he didn't know what music publishing 44 00:02:12,440 --> 00:02:15,040 Speaker 1: was and what it was about. And Uh, once we 45 00:02:15,120 --> 00:02:17,800 Speaker 1: finally connected and I was really able to explain it 46 00:02:17,840 --> 00:02:21,040 Speaker 1: to him, we got the deal done. And Waterfalls was 47 00:02:21,160 --> 00:02:23,880 Speaker 1: the first record that I was a part of, UM 48 00:02:23,960 --> 00:02:26,480 Speaker 1: that went number one. Uh, that signed, I signed the 49 00:02:26,480 --> 00:02:28,240 Speaker 1: writer that that wrote a song that went number one. 50 00:02:28,280 --> 00:02:31,400 Speaker 1: And it was an amazing feeling. UM, you know, to 51 00:02:31,440 --> 00:02:34,000 Speaker 1: see him have that moment, it was just amazing for me. 52 00:02:34,040 --> 00:02:35,800 Speaker 1: And I was probably even know it was possible, like 53 00:02:35,800 --> 00:02:39,519 Speaker 1: can you can you sort of explain what music publishing? Yeah, 54 00:02:39,520 --> 00:02:41,600 Speaker 1: and and and in a better and a better way 55 00:02:41,600 --> 00:02:42,919 Speaker 1: of that thing. He didn't know what it was about, 56 00:02:42,919 --> 00:02:45,000 Speaker 1: to the point that he kept his job. He kept 57 00:02:45,040 --> 00:02:47,760 Speaker 1: his full time job. He didn't know what kind of 58 00:02:47,760 --> 00:02:49,519 Speaker 1: money was in this thing. He was working at a 59 00:02:49,600 --> 00:02:53,440 Speaker 1: hotel and he would not quit that job. And Waterfalls 60 00:02:53,560 --> 00:02:57,040 Speaker 1: on the album on the album became a number one record, 61 00:02:57,320 --> 00:03:00,240 Speaker 1: and he still would not quit his job for very 62 00:03:00,240 --> 00:03:03,400 Speaker 1: long time. But you know, so music publishing, you know 63 00:03:03,400 --> 00:03:05,760 Speaker 1: what we do is we administer the rites of the 64 00:03:05,760 --> 00:03:09,440 Speaker 1: song of the songwriter songs. We you know, every time 65 00:03:09,480 --> 00:03:12,720 Speaker 1: you hear a song, a songwriter is making money UM 66 00:03:12,760 --> 00:03:14,360 Speaker 1: from very if you hear it in the movie, if 67 00:03:14,360 --> 00:03:15,840 Speaker 1: you hear it on the radio, you hear it on 68 00:03:15,880 --> 00:03:18,799 Speaker 1: the record, UM on an album that you buy. That 69 00:03:18,880 --> 00:03:21,720 Speaker 1: songwriter is making money, and someone has to go out 70 00:03:21,720 --> 00:03:25,400 Speaker 1: and collect all of those revenue streams for the songwriters. UM. 71 00:03:25,400 --> 00:03:27,560 Speaker 1: And that's what we do. We pull all those streams together, 72 00:03:27,919 --> 00:03:29,640 Speaker 1: UM and make sure the songwriters are being plaid. We 73 00:03:29,720 --> 00:03:32,839 Speaker 1: licensed the songs. UM. So that's that's the administration part 74 00:03:32,840 --> 00:03:35,160 Speaker 1: of it. That's a quick example of the administration part 75 00:03:35,200 --> 00:03:40,360 Speaker 1: of it. But the part that UM other publishers do 76 00:03:40,440 --> 00:03:43,400 Speaker 1: in the part that kind of made me popular, is 77 00:03:43,960 --> 00:03:47,560 Speaker 1: to sign songwriters and then not just collect from the 78 00:03:47,600 --> 00:03:50,680 Speaker 1: songs that they're doing, is to take songs that they've 79 00:03:50,680 --> 00:03:54,680 Speaker 1: written and get them to other artists and create opportunities 80 00:03:55,160 --> 00:03:58,000 Speaker 1: uh for songwriters. And and that's how music publishing is 81 00:03:58,040 --> 00:04:00,240 Speaker 1: supposed to work. It doesn't work like that all of 82 00:04:00,320 --> 00:04:03,160 Speaker 1: the time. But that's the service that I began to 83 00:04:03,200 --> 00:04:05,760 Speaker 1: provide because that's how I knew it was supposed to work. 84 00:04:05,840 --> 00:04:08,800 Speaker 1: And it was an example when he first started doing 85 00:04:08,840 --> 00:04:11,760 Speaker 1: that and was able to carve your niche. UM. Sure, 86 00:04:11,840 --> 00:04:13,600 Speaker 1: like I signed. The writer a songwriter by the name 87 00:04:13,600 --> 00:04:16,440 Speaker 1: of Tomorrow Savage UM years ago. This is back in 88 00:04:16,440 --> 00:04:19,320 Speaker 1: the nineties, and I just a friend of mine, came 89 00:04:19,360 --> 00:04:21,240 Speaker 1: and played me some of her music. I thought the 90 00:04:21,320 --> 00:04:26,280 Speaker 1: music was incredible, UM. And I then got her in 91 00:04:26,320 --> 00:04:29,520 Speaker 1: the studio with other producers who she started writing with 92 00:04:29,640 --> 00:04:32,120 Speaker 1: and and the songs were really good, and but she 93 00:04:32,200 --> 00:04:33,720 Speaker 1: needed work on the songs. And I told her some 94 00:04:33,839 --> 00:04:35,840 Speaker 1: advice on how to do the songs and or how 95 00:04:35,880 --> 00:04:39,240 Speaker 1: to write a little better, and she was like okay. 96 00:04:39,440 --> 00:04:41,200 Speaker 1: It was almost like she just needed to be told that. 97 00:04:41,240 --> 00:04:43,240 Speaker 1: And the next song she wrote with Heartbreak Hotel for 98 00:04:43,320 --> 00:04:47,000 Speaker 1: Whitney Houston. UM that we gave to Whitney Houston. But 99 00:04:47,080 --> 00:04:50,200 Speaker 1: before that even came out, I had told Germaine about her. 100 00:04:50,400 --> 00:04:53,440 Speaker 1: I got this new songwriter, and He's like, okay, we'll 101 00:04:53,480 --> 00:04:55,640 Speaker 1: send it down here. I'll give her a try. So 102 00:04:55,920 --> 00:04:57,440 Speaker 1: I took her to Atlanta. She and I went to 103 00:04:57,520 --> 00:04:59,640 Speaker 1: Atlanta and we were at Jermaine's house. He had a 104 00:04:59,680 --> 00:05:02,920 Speaker 1: studio with his house, and so me and Jermain would 105 00:05:02,920 --> 00:05:05,240 Speaker 1: play he he threw on some loops and she was 106 00:05:05,279 --> 00:05:07,039 Speaker 1: in there messing around, and me and Jermaine would and 107 00:05:07,040 --> 00:05:11,480 Speaker 1: play video games and he used to. Yeah, we was 108 00:05:11,480 --> 00:05:14,359 Speaker 1: playing NBA live and I remember coming in there and 109 00:05:14,400 --> 00:05:16,000 Speaker 1: she said, Paul, can you come and check this out? 110 00:05:16,080 --> 00:05:17,800 Speaker 1: She would call me pop and she said, you come 111 00:05:17,800 --> 00:05:20,080 Speaker 1: and check this song out. It's like twenty minutes later 112 00:05:20,120 --> 00:05:22,280 Speaker 1: and I went in there and she sang the hook 113 00:05:22,360 --> 00:05:25,880 Speaker 1: to the First Night Monica's the First Night, and I said, 114 00:05:25,920 --> 00:05:27,560 Speaker 1: Jermaine come in here. So he came in there and 115 00:05:27,600 --> 00:05:30,240 Speaker 1: heard it, and next thing, you know, he heard it 116 00:05:30,279 --> 00:05:31,720 Speaker 1: and he knew it clicked in me and he got 117 00:05:31,720 --> 00:05:34,839 Speaker 1: on the drum machine and start start programming the rest 118 00:05:34,839 --> 00:05:37,000 Speaker 1: of the beat out, and you know, maybe an hour 119 00:05:37,120 --> 00:05:39,240 Speaker 1: later the whole song was written. You know, for being 120 00:05:39,279 --> 00:05:40,839 Speaker 1: part of the creative process. Like I think I said 121 00:05:40,839 --> 00:05:43,240 Speaker 1: something you and j D in particular, like you give 122 00:05:43,279 --> 00:05:44,839 Speaker 1: your input a lot. And I think one thing that 123 00:05:44,920 --> 00:05:46,960 Speaker 1: j D was quoted one saying you're almost so honest 124 00:05:47,040 --> 00:05:51,400 Speaker 1: that you're too honest. You know, we know how JD is, 125 00:05:51,440 --> 00:05:53,080 Speaker 1: you know, I'm saying how strong opinion that he is. 126 00:05:53,080 --> 00:05:55,200 Speaker 1: Like what's it like to like, you know, like step 127 00:05:55,200 --> 00:05:57,080 Speaker 1: in but sort of step out, like find that balance 128 00:05:57,160 --> 00:05:59,840 Speaker 1: of give your opinion on you know, I always tell 129 00:06:00,120 --> 00:06:02,160 Speaker 1: creatives now that I work with, you know, because I 130 00:06:02,200 --> 00:06:05,640 Speaker 1: like I like to coach creatives as well and our people, um, 131 00:06:05,680 --> 00:06:08,440 Speaker 1: you know, and I try to tell them like you, 132 00:06:08,680 --> 00:06:12,760 Speaker 1: working with songwriters producers, it is very delicate. It is 133 00:06:12,920 --> 00:06:14,760 Speaker 1: very very delicate, and you have to know when to 134 00:06:14,880 --> 00:06:17,040 Speaker 1: get in and when to get out. And when you 135 00:06:17,080 --> 00:06:20,480 Speaker 1: do get in, you better be right. You better be right, 136 00:06:20,560 --> 00:06:23,719 Speaker 1: or you better have something to offer because if you don't, 137 00:06:24,880 --> 00:06:27,320 Speaker 1: they may not never listen to you again. They may 138 00:06:27,320 --> 00:06:30,880 Speaker 1: not never listen to you again. And so I've just 139 00:06:30,920 --> 00:06:34,719 Speaker 1: been blessed with that, you know, I've been able to 140 00:06:34,760 --> 00:06:38,840 Speaker 1: contribute more than not contribute. Uh. But music is in me. 141 00:06:39,120 --> 00:06:41,120 Speaker 1: Music is in me, and and you know, I have 142 00:06:41,160 --> 00:06:43,520 Speaker 1: a great relationship with songwriters and producers and and they 143 00:06:43,520 --> 00:06:45,680 Speaker 1: trust me because of your role. Do you hear music 144 00:06:45,720 --> 00:06:50,320 Speaker 1: differently when you're watching a commercial and all that, so 145 00:06:50,440 --> 00:06:52,800 Speaker 1: the soul comes up, you're thinking this person just got 146 00:06:52,880 --> 00:06:55,680 Speaker 1: paid or no, no, that's funny when I hear a commercial. 147 00:06:56,160 --> 00:06:58,520 Speaker 1: When I see a commercial and then I hear music 148 00:06:58,560 --> 00:07:00,000 Speaker 1: on there, the first thing I do, if I don't 149 00:07:00,080 --> 00:07:03,400 Speaker 1: know about it, I'm email or text the person in 150 00:07:03,480 --> 00:07:05,560 Speaker 1: our sync department, because that's the sync license when when 151 00:07:05,560 --> 00:07:07,440 Speaker 1: that music is used, how many how much? How much 152 00:07:07,440 --> 00:07:09,440 Speaker 1: do they get paid for this song, you know, and 153 00:07:09,560 --> 00:07:11,600 Speaker 1: just making sure you see what the fees are or whatever. 154 00:07:11,720 --> 00:07:14,120 Speaker 1: And you know, there was a time once where I 155 00:07:14,200 --> 00:07:16,680 Speaker 1: heard a song on the radio and uh, I won't 156 00:07:16,720 --> 00:07:20,360 Speaker 1: say the artist, but uh, and I heard at the end, 157 00:07:20,400 --> 00:07:22,040 Speaker 1: I said, it's a sample in there, right, I said, 158 00:07:22,080 --> 00:07:24,000 Speaker 1: then that's a sample that we had that sample, it's 159 00:07:24,000 --> 00:07:29,600 Speaker 1: the earth Winning Fire sample. So I sent a I 160 00:07:29,600 --> 00:07:31,520 Speaker 1: think I called my guy at e M. I M 161 00:07:31,600 --> 00:07:33,560 Speaker 1: at the time, and I called my guy dad and 162 00:07:33,600 --> 00:07:35,760 Speaker 1: I said, hey, did this sample get clear that he 163 00:07:35,760 --> 00:07:38,200 Speaker 1: hadn't heard of the song. I was like, it's a 164 00:07:38,280 --> 00:07:41,120 Speaker 1: it's an earth Winning Fire sample in this song. And 165 00:07:41,160 --> 00:07:44,200 Speaker 1: so he tracked it down and he says, the guy says, 166 00:07:44,240 --> 00:07:46,440 Speaker 1: there's no sample in the song. I said that it's 167 00:07:46,440 --> 00:07:49,840 Speaker 1: a sample in the song. Um, And so I said, 168 00:07:49,840 --> 00:07:51,320 Speaker 1: if you gotta listen at the end the end, they 169 00:07:52,360 --> 00:07:54,360 Speaker 1: messed up and the sample play without the beat over 170 00:07:54,360 --> 00:07:56,800 Speaker 1: it right at the fade out. And so he listened 171 00:07:56,800 --> 00:07:59,320 Speaker 1: to it again and he said, Okay, I hear it. 172 00:07:59,760 --> 00:08:03,000 Speaker 1: So he goes back to them, to the label, and 173 00:08:03,040 --> 00:08:07,880 Speaker 1: the producers just adamant like no sampling, this, this, and this, 174 00:08:07,960 --> 00:08:09,480 Speaker 1: I said, And I knew, and I knew who the 175 00:08:09,520 --> 00:08:13,520 Speaker 1: producer was m But you know the friends friends. Business 176 00:08:13,520 --> 00:08:15,800 Speaker 1: doesn't come in when when you're dealing with people that 177 00:08:15,840 --> 00:08:18,480 Speaker 1: you do that you're during business with, right, And so 178 00:08:19,000 --> 00:08:22,760 Speaker 1: I said, okay, you know what, call him back. Tell him. 179 00:08:22,800 --> 00:08:25,760 Speaker 1: We try to be nice about it. So tell him, 180 00:08:25,840 --> 00:08:27,920 Speaker 1: I said, So, tell him now we're taking the whole song. 181 00:08:28,280 --> 00:08:29,920 Speaker 1: I said, tell him, now, we're taking the whole song. 182 00:08:30,640 --> 00:08:35,640 Speaker 1: They call back, said, he said, okay, it's a sample sampling. 183 00:08:35,640 --> 00:08:37,720 Speaker 1: I saw somethingwhere because you work with jay Z will 184 00:08:37,760 --> 00:08:40,720 Speaker 1: get deeper into that obviously, but he accredited you that 185 00:08:40,800 --> 00:08:42,880 Speaker 1: you saw of help change the way records were split 186 00:08:42,920 --> 00:08:44,840 Speaker 1: in terms of a lot of times, correct me if 187 00:08:44,840 --> 00:08:46,960 Speaker 1: I'm wrong. It's like a song and theory, the writer 188 00:08:47,040 --> 00:08:49,360 Speaker 1: and producer share the record, right fifty fifth year in 189 00:08:49,440 --> 00:08:52,280 Speaker 1: some sense. But let's say the producer sample something, the 190 00:08:52,320 --> 00:08:54,160 Speaker 1: writer would almost get cut out of the two thirds 191 00:08:54,200 --> 00:08:56,680 Speaker 1: against one thirds in a sense. Right, yeah, I mean, listen, 192 00:08:56,720 --> 00:08:58,800 Speaker 1: it depends on what side of defense you want, right. 193 00:08:58,880 --> 00:09:00,880 Speaker 1: And so for me, I was I was working with 194 00:09:00,960 --> 00:09:05,080 Speaker 1: Jay and and I was seeing that he was eating 195 00:09:06,120 --> 00:09:09,319 Speaker 1: a good portion of the samples, right, And I didn't 196 00:09:09,360 --> 00:09:11,800 Speaker 1: I didn't feel that was fair because he didn't bring 197 00:09:11,880 --> 00:09:14,679 Speaker 1: the sample to the to the to the to the 198 00:09:14,960 --> 00:09:19,240 Speaker 1: to the song. Uh, and he was being charged with it, 199 00:09:19,280 --> 00:09:21,920 Speaker 1: and I just we just went I just got aggressive 200 00:09:21,960 --> 00:09:23,600 Speaker 1: with it, and I said, you know what, he's not 201 00:09:23,640 --> 00:09:25,800 Speaker 1: going to eat any samples anymore. And I spoke with 202 00:09:25,880 --> 00:09:28,680 Speaker 1: his team, so I said, anything with his publishing speak 203 00:09:28,720 --> 00:09:31,920 Speaker 1: with me, Um, he's not eating samples anymore. And we 204 00:09:32,040 --> 00:09:34,440 Speaker 1: just got aggressive with it, and we really changed the 205 00:09:34,480 --> 00:09:38,240 Speaker 1: way that operated. Where you know, if you're if you're 206 00:09:38,240 --> 00:09:40,400 Speaker 1: a big enough artist, you shouldn't have to do that. 207 00:09:40,520 --> 00:09:42,000 Speaker 1: You shouldn't have to do that. You bring a lot 208 00:09:42,040 --> 00:09:45,680 Speaker 1: to the table just by walking in the room, you 209 00:09:45,720 --> 00:09:47,400 Speaker 1: know what I mean, and being on the song. And 210 00:09:47,440 --> 00:09:48,920 Speaker 1: so that's that was one of the things that we 211 00:09:49,000 --> 00:09:52,920 Speaker 1: changed with him. And oh, this was this was early, 212 00:09:53,120 --> 00:09:56,120 Speaker 1: you know, this was early. This was probably uh, right 213 00:09:56,160 --> 00:10:00,880 Speaker 1: around Volume two Partner, so right before the big break through. Yeah, 214 00:10:00,880 --> 00:10:02,600 Speaker 1: that was that was That was the first album where 215 00:10:02,600 --> 00:10:05,360 Speaker 1: I really dug in with Jay and really started to 216 00:10:05,360 --> 00:10:08,719 Speaker 1: work with him, um administratively on on the set on 217 00:10:08,760 --> 00:10:12,920 Speaker 1: the publishing. Uh. And that particular album me and Lennies 218 00:10:13,320 --> 00:10:17,000 Speaker 1: did every song split on that album, and that was 219 00:10:17,040 --> 00:10:20,240 Speaker 1: as biggest album, right, And so it was great because 220 00:10:21,000 --> 00:10:25,320 Speaker 1: the administration was handled on the publishing and it was 221 00:10:25,320 --> 00:10:27,440 Speaker 1: as biggest album. So he got to see the immediate 222 00:10:27,440 --> 00:10:30,280 Speaker 1: benefit of how that works and and you know, and 223 00:10:30,320 --> 00:10:33,600 Speaker 1: so it's the lifetime lifetime. By now, yeah, it has 224 00:10:33,600 --> 00:10:35,640 Speaker 1: turned into you know, I've worked with Ja since his 225 00:10:35,679 --> 00:10:38,080 Speaker 1: first album, right, So yeah, you listen the reasonable doubting 226 00:10:38,160 --> 00:10:39,679 Speaker 1: like back then, Like, I think what's unique about you 227 00:10:39,720 --> 00:10:42,320 Speaker 1: too is like you know, people didn't Jay wasn't that 228 00:10:42,320 --> 00:10:45,200 Speaker 1: big commercial success out the gate, but you saw something 229 00:10:45,240 --> 00:10:48,200 Speaker 1: there in terms of his his content that attracted you, 230 00:10:48,240 --> 00:10:50,520 Speaker 1: like with reasonable doubt. Yeah. I mean I was just 231 00:10:50,559 --> 00:10:54,160 Speaker 1: hearing songs that was so visual that I had never 232 00:10:54,480 --> 00:10:58,120 Speaker 1: experienced hearing music that was so visual. I was like, 233 00:10:58,160 --> 00:11:01,120 Speaker 1: I know someone like that, you know, and it just 234 00:11:01,160 --> 00:11:03,680 Speaker 1: touched me in a way that that music hadn't touched 235 00:11:03,679 --> 00:11:07,040 Speaker 1: me yet. Uh. And I also, I'm a DJ. I 236 00:11:07,080 --> 00:11:09,199 Speaker 1: started I started in Denver. I grew up in Denver, 237 00:11:09,679 --> 00:11:12,040 Speaker 1: and I was a DJ, so and I took pride 238 00:11:12,120 --> 00:11:14,320 Speaker 1: in like breaking records. You know, I didn't know I 239 00:11:14,360 --> 00:11:16,079 Speaker 1: was breaking records at the time. I didn't know that's 240 00:11:16,120 --> 00:11:18,320 Speaker 1: what that was called. But you know, when I would 241 00:11:18,360 --> 00:11:21,640 Speaker 1: do parties, did you have your big songs that on 242 00:11:21,640 --> 00:11:24,840 Speaker 1: the radio? Uh? But I would always challenge myself to 243 00:11:24,840 --> 00:11:26,959 Speaker 1: find something else on the album that wasn't a big 244 00:11:26,960 --> 00:11:28,960 Speaker 1: song because I always felt you hear the big songs 245 00:11:29,000 --> 00:11:31,880 Speaker 1: on the radio when you come to the parties. I'm DJ, 246 00:11:31,960 --> 00:11:34,000 Speaker 1: and I gotta break new music, and I was picking 247 00:11:34,040 --> 00:11:37,040 Speaker 1: other songs off the album. So I just have a 248 00:11:37,240 --> 00:11:40,480 Speaker 1: you know, a gift. It's a gift from God. I 249 00:11:40,520 --> 00:11:42,080 Speaker 1: just hear what I hear, hear what I believe in, 250 00:11:42,679 --> 00:11:44,600 Speaker 1: and luckily what I believe in a lot of other 251 00:11:44,640 --> 00:11:47,200 Speaker 1: people come around to believe in it. Can you still DJ? 252 00:11:48,000 --> 00:11:51,000 Speaker 1: I'm sure I could, but but I don't. I know 253 00:11:51,080 --> 00:11:53,560 Speaker 1: I could because when I go to certain parties, I'm like, 254 00:11:53,880 --> 00:11:56,280 Speaker 1: this is not it, you know? But uh, you know, 255 00:11:56,360 --> 00:11:57,680 Speaker 1: DJ is make a lot more way than I was 256 00:11:57,760 --> 00:11:59,839 Speaker 1: making back there. I was making fifty bucks a night? 257 00:12:00,200 --> 00:12:02,079 Speaker 1: Was it all the Did you have goals just to 258 00:12:02,120 --> 00:12:05,560 Speaker 1: be like the biggest DJ until Chuck D stuff? Then yeah, 259 00:12:05,640 --> 00:12:07,120 Speaker 1: I guess so you know what I mean. I just 260 00:12:07,240 --> 00:12:11,079 Speaker 1: loved music, and it was Chuck D. Who you met 261 00:12:11,080 --> 00:12:13,920 Speaker 1: who inspired you to Yeah, yeah, I met Chuck. You know. 262 00:12:13,920 --> 00:12:17,120 Speaker 1: They used my turntables for for a concert. That's how 263 00:12:17,120 --> 00:12:20,960 Speaker 1: we met. That's how we met. Yeah, I had. So 264 00:12:21,120 --> 00:12:22,840 Speaker 1: what happened was they came to Denmer for a show 265 00:12:23,280 --> 00:12:25,160 Speaker 1: and there was a guy named Dave Klein that used 266 00:12:25,200 --> 00:12:28,720 Speaker 1: to work at Deaf Jam. He's from Colorado and so 267 00:12:28,800 --> 00:12:31,360 Speaker 1: he's the one who actually sent me public in his 268 00:12:31,440 --> 00:12:33,320 Speaker 1: music in the beginning to play in the clubs. And 269 00:12:33,480 --> 00:12:35,880 Speaker 1: he said they were coming to town, and so they 270 00:12:35,920 --> 00:12:37,480 Speaker 1: came in for the show. We got to the venue 271 00:12:37,880 --> 00:12:41,880 Speaker 1: and the equipment was terrible and terminated. X was like, 272 00:12:41,880 --> 00:12:43,760 Speaker 1: I can't DJ on this stuff. It was like it 273 00:12:44,080 --> 00:12:46,520 Speaker 1: might have been radio shock equipment. Like it was like 274 00:12:46,600 --> 00:12:50,160 Speaker 1: turntables and sad mixer and ship and literally I said, 275 00:12:50,200 --> 00:12:52,000 Speaker 1: you can use mine. I said, I used the same 276 00:12:52,000 --> 00:12:56,120 Speaker 1: turntables you use and he said okay um, and he 277 00:12:56,200 --> 00:12:57,800 Speaker 1: got in my I said, but they at my house. 278 00:12:57,840 --> 00:13:00,720 Speaker 1: So he got in my Ford Granada with me and 279 00:13:00,840 --> 00:13:03,800 Speaker 1: drove to my place and we wrapped my turntables in blankets. 280 00:13:03,800 --> 00:13:06,920 Speaker 1: I didn't have anvilcations at the time, and they used 281 00:13:06,920 --> 00:13:08,719 Speaker 1: my turntables for the show. And that's how me and 282 00:13:08,800 --> 00:13:11,000 Speaker 1: Chuck met and after the show, Chuck gave me sixty 283 00:13:11,040 --> 00:13:15,000 Speaker 1: dollars and and he you know, by the way, I'm 284 00:13:15,040 --> 00:13:16,760 Speaker 1: in Denver, and I gave it back to him by 285 00:13:16,840 --> 00:13:18,800 Speaker 1: the way, and I was like, it's my honor to 286 00:13:18,920 --> 00:13:21,160 Speaker 1: do this, and he was like no, no, He's like, no, no, no, 287 00:13:21,240 --> 00:13:24,240 Speaker 1: we made money and you helped us, so you make money. 288 00:13:24,760 --> 00:13:27,960 Speaker 1: And and and that became a friendship. And a couple 289 00:13:28,000 --> 00:13:30,800 Speaker 1: of years later, public Indemy is now huge, and he 290 00:13:31,040 --> 00:13:33,160 Speaker 1: Chuck was on the lecture circuit. He came back to 291 00:13:33,240 --> 00:13:35,120 Speaker 1: Colorado to speak out of college and I went to 292 00:13:35,160 --> 00:13:38,360 Speaker 1: that event just to hear him speak. And he walked 293 00:13:38,400 --> 00:13:40,560 Speaker 1: past me to go to the stage and I tapped 294 00:13:40,600 --> 00:13:44,000 Speaker 1: him and he turned and said big John. I was like, oh, 295 00:13:44,080 --> 00:13:47,480 Speaker 1: he remembers me, and he said hang out afterwards. And 296 00:13:47,679 --> 00:13:50,400 Speaker 1: the bond started then. And uh. A few years later 297 00:13:50,400 --> 00:13:53,080 Speaker 1: after that, he had that conversation that changed my life 298 00:13:53,360 --> 00:13:56,079 Speaker 1: in terms of just like, don't be satisfied being this 299 00:13:56,240 --> 00:13:58,520 Speaker 1: the big thing in the smaller market. Yeah. Yeah, we 300 00:13:58,520 --> 00:14:01,079 Speaker 1: were talking and he had come to town with ice Cube. 301 00:14:01,120 --> 00:14:03,000 Speaker 1: It was it was Chuck. It was publican to me 302 00:14:03,480 --> 00:14:06,000 Speaker 1: ice Cube and yo yo the concert and it was 303 00:14:06,280 --> 00:14:09,040 Speaker 1: right on ice Cube this most wanting. You know, they 304 00:14:09,080 --> 00:14:12,400 Speaker 1: produced that album. The squad produced that album, and so 305 00:14:13,120 --> 00:14:15,079 Speaker 1: you know, we were in, Me and Chuck were in 306 00:14:15,240 --> 00:14:16,640 Speaker 1: and I was m C in the concert. So I 307 00:14:16,679 --> 00:14:18,840 Speaker 1: had become such a popular DJ that I was m 308 00:14:18,880 --> 00:14:23,960 Speaker 1: seeing that show. And so, uh, we were in the 309 00:14:24,000 --> 00:14:27,240 Speaker 1: arena watching ice Cub do it sound check and Chuck 310 00:14:27,280 --> 00:14:29,080 Speaker 1: was sitting one row behind me. Was just us two 311 00:14:29,640 --> 00:14:32,240 Speaker 1: and and we were just talking about stuff and he said, 312 00:14:32,240 --> 00:14:33,520 Speaker 1: you know, a big time what are you gonna do? 313 00:14:33,840 --> 00:14:36,960 Speaker 1: What are you gonna do with yourself? And You're like, 314 00:14:37,000 --> 00:14:39,920 Speaker 1: I'm by the way, that's exactly what I said. By 315 00:14:39,920 --> 00:14:52,680 Speaker 1: the way, that's exactly what I said. Yeah, so uh, 316 00:14:53,040 --> 00:14:56,400 Speaker 1: I um, I was confused because I was like, that's 317 00:14:56,440 --> 00:14:59,400 Speaker 1: exactly what I said. I was to come up in 318 00:14:59,440 --> 00:15:01,560 Speaker 1: the market. What are you talking about? Like I got 319 00:15:01,640 --> 00:15:04,120 Speaker 1: this here, like like I'm the man here. And he says, 320 00:15:04,600 --> 00:15:08,120 Speaker 1: that's exactly what I'm talking about. And I'm like, okay, 321 00:15:08,160 --> 00:15:09,880 Speaker 1: what are you talking about? Because truck can get deep. 322 00:15:10,360 --> 00:15:12,840 Speaker 1: And he says, every time I come to Denver, you're 323 00:15:12,880 --> 00:15:14,440 Speaker 1: the man, because he had been there never quite a 324 00:15:14,440 --> 00:15:16,440 Speaker 1: few times. Every time I come to Denver, you're the man. 325 00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:19,400 Speaker 1: But unless you dream bigger, that's all you ever gonna 326 00:15:19,480 --> 00:15:23,240 Speaker 1: be is the man here. And so he said, you know, 327 00:15:23,240 --> 00:15:25,160 Speaker 1: you should start a record label. I said, I don't 328 00:15:25,160 --> 00:15:28,000 Speaker 1: have no money, and started record labor. And so he 329 00:15:28,080 --> 00:15:30,080 Speaker 1: started telling me all these things I could do. He 330 00:15:30,160 --> 00:15:34,400 Speaker 1: made name three or four things, and the industry just stuff, 331 00:15:34,440 --> 00:15:36,080 Speaker 1: and I was, I can't do that. I can't do that. 332 00:15:36,120 --> 00:15:37,320 Speaker 1: And then he just said, I don't know. I just 333 00:15:37,360 --> 00:15:39,160 Speaker 1: think you have something to offer to the music business. 334 00:15:39,200 --> 00:15:41,880 Speaker 1: You're always asking questions about it. And that was the 335 00:15:41,960 --> 00:15:44,040 Speaker 1: end of the conversation of that part of the conversation 336 00:15:45,440 --> 00:15:47,640 Speaker 1: that night when I left the venue, and the next 337 00:15:47,720 --> 00:15:50,000 Speaker 1: day it just stuck with me and stuck with me 338 00:15:50,080 --> 00:15:52,280 Speaker 1: and stuck with me, and to the point I just started. 339 00:15:52,560 --> 00:15:54,320 Speaker 1: I was on the huff information at that point and 340 00:15:54,360 --> 00:15:57,680 Speaker 1: got books on it, and you know, found some producers 341 00:15:57,720 --> 00:15:59,760 Speaker 1: I started to manage out here in California. I'm still 342 00:15:59,800 --> 00:16:02,120 Speaker 1: living in them at the time. Um it was the 343 00:16:02,280 --> 00:16:07,040 Speaker 1: USC came out, met them, I said, listen, and they 344 00:16:07,040 --> 00:16:11,680 Speaker 1: had good music. So, um, yeah, producers mat Dukie Productions. 345 00:16:11,800 --> 00:16:14,400 Speaker 1: And so a friend of mine turn me onto them. 346 00:16:14,400 --> 00:16:15,680 Speaker 1: So I heard the music and I was like, wow, 347 00:16:15,680 --> 00:16:17,680 Speaker 1: how could nothing not be going on with these guys? 348 00:16:18,600 --> 00:16:20,800 Speaker 1: So I said, listen, you don't know me. I don't 349 00:16:20,800 --> 00:16:22,320 Speaker 1: know you, but I know a couple of people because 350 00:16:22,320 --> 00:16:24,360 Speaker 1: I would go to the music conferences like Jack the Rapping, 351 00:16:24,640 --> 00:16:27,440 Speaker 1: New Music Seminar and so so, those all those type 352 00:16:27,480 --> 00:16:29,080 Speaker 1: of things. But I was one as a DJ, right, 353 00:16:29,200 --> 00:16:30,760 Speaker 1: I was just going to get free vinyl, to be 354 00:16:30,840 --> 00:16:37,640 Speaker 1: honest with you, and so, yeah, exactly, you know so uh, 355 00:16:37,720 --> 00:16:39,360 Speaker 1: I said, but if I get some things happening for 356 00:16:39,400 --> 00:16:41,680 Speaker 1: you guys, maybe you let me manage you. They're like, okay, cool. 357 00:16:43,280 --> 00:16:45,000 Speaker 1: You know. I met a friend named Steve Prudhomme at 358 00:16:45,080 --> 00:16:47,840 Speaker 1: Jack the Rapper. You know, I met another guy in 359 00:16:47,840 --> 00:16:50,560 Speaker 1: New York and led you a meeting about publishing for 360 00:16:50,600 --> 00:16:53,680 Speaker 1: these for these producers, which then led me to Los 361 00:16:53,720 --> 00:16:55,720 Speaker 1: Angeles for another meeting. And I didn't know a lot 362 00:16:55,760 --> 00:16:58,080 Speaker 1: about publishing. So I called my friend Steve, who had 363 00:16:58,160 --> 00:17:00,440 Speaker 1: just kind of got his job at e m I 364 00:17:01,320 --> 00:17:03,320 Speaker 1: and I said, I got this meeting, can you help 365 00:17:03,360 --> 00:17:06,719 Speaker 1: me out about publishing? Said yes, come through. So I 366 00:17:06,760 --> 00:17:09,480 Speaker 1: came through. He schooled me for what he knew about publishing, 367 00:17:10,640 --> 00:17:13,200 Speaker 1: and when I was leaving, I said thanks. I'm about 368 00:17:13,200 --> 00:17:15,679 Speaker 1: to leave to go to the other meeting, right, and 369 00:17:15,680 --> 00:17:17,400 Speaker 1: he says, well, you're not gonna play me the music. 370 00:17:17,440 --> 00:17:18,960 Speaker 1: I was like, oh, you want to hear it? So 371 00:17:19,760 --> 00:17:22,040 Speaker 1: I played in the music. He loses his mind. He's like, 372 00:17:22,040 --> 00:17:24,800 Speaker 1: don't go to that meeting. Let me sign it. And 373 00:17:25,200 --> 00:17:27,440 Speaker 1: you know, long story short, I signed those producers to 374 00:17:27,520 --> 00:17:30,600 Speaker 1: E M I and you know me managing. Then my 375 00:17:30,640 --> 00:17:33,480 Speaker 1: figured I better learn music publishing. And a couple of 376 00:17:33,560 --> 00:17:35,840 Speaker 1: years later, YEAHM I offered me the job. And that's 377 00:17:35,840 --> 00:17:39,160 Speaker 1: how I know you was taking over the office too. Yeah. Yeah, 378 00:17:39,760 --> 00:17:42,399 Speaker 1: you didn't even work there. You did your homework, like 379 00:17:42,480 --> 00:17:45,240 Speaker 1: hogging the conference room and stuff. Yeah, he said he 380 00:17:45,840 --> 00:17:48,520 Speaker 1: figured out the key locks, the key codes in the building. 381 00:17:48,640 --> 00:17:53,000 Speaker 1: Yeah yeah. Like, yeah, I would be there because I 382 00:17:53,040 --> 00:17:55,120 Speaker 1: was still living in Denver, and so when I came 383 00:17:55,119 --> 00:17:57,960 Speaker 1: to l A, my my only real relationship was E 384 00:17:58,200 --> 00:18:01,120 Speaker 1: M I, right, because I had I had business with them, 385 00:18:01,200 --> 00:18:04,040 Speaker 1: So you know, I would be there all the time. 386 00:18:04,560 --> 00:18:06,480 Speaker 1: And I didn't have a cell phone. I didn't have 387 00:18:06,520 --> 00:18:08,520 Speaker 1: a lot of money. I was staying at my aunt's 388 00:18:08,560 --> 00:18:11,639 Speaker 1: house and my mother's aunt's house in South Central Um, 389 00:18:11,640 --> 00:18:14,760 Speaker 1: sleeping on a twin bed uh, Because then I finally 390 00:18:14,760 --> 00:18:16,680 Speaker 1: had decided to try to get out here more often. 391 00:18:16,760 --> 00:18:18,400 Speaker 1: So I needed a place to stay, and she would 392 00:18:18,480 --> 00:18:20,920 Speaker 1: let me stay with her rent free. I wouldn't be 393 00:18:20,960 --> 00:18:24,359 Speaker 1: here if it wasn't for her. But anyway, at e 394 00:18:24,480 --> 00:18:26,600 Speaker 1: M I I would be there all the time, like 395 00:18:26,720 --> 00:18:28,520 Speaker 1: all day, all night. And so one time I was 396 00:18:28,560 --> 00:18:30,880 Speaker 1: going up there and I've seen someone put the code 397 00:18:30,960 --> 00:18:33,800 Speaker 1: in right and and so I was over the shoulder 398 00:18:33,880 --> 00:18:38,040 Speaker 1: like oh, And I literally would go back after we leave, 399 00:18:38,040 --> 00:18:39,359 Speaker 1: I would go back. I didn't have any whorlse to go. 400 00:18:39,400 --> 00:18:41,040 Speaker 1: I would go back, put the code in, and I'll 401 00:18:41,040 --> 00:18:43,400 Speaker 1: be in there listening to music all night, blasted music 402 00:18:43,480 --> 00:18:45,879 Speaker 1: in the conference room. And again I didn't have a 403 00:18:45,880 --> 00:18:48,800 Speaker 1: cell phone, so I would use their phone for the 404 00:18:48,800 --> 00:18:52,160 Speaker 1: long distance phone calls. And that's how we called around 405 00:18:52,200 --> 00:18:53,879 Speaker 1: to the company's in New York and car family and 406 00:18:53,920 --> 00:18:56,560 Speaker 1: every So you literally cracked the code in the game. 407 00:18:57,720 --> 00:19:00,080 Speaker 1: But even as a music publisher, like you know, you 408 00:19:00,119 --> 00:19:03,159 Speaker 1: recruit talent, like what a good characteristics and trace that 409 00:19:03,200 --> 00:19:04,960 Speaker 1: someone has to have in order to make it in 410 00:19:05,000 --> 00:19:10,080 Speaker 1: this business? Well for me, I mean, of course it 411 00:19:10,119 --> 00:19:14,840 Speaker 1: starts with great music, right, um, great songs, But that 412 00:19:15,000 --> 00:19:18,720 Speaker 1: is almost the easy part. Um. You know, for me, 413 00:19:18,800 --> 00:19:21,800 Speaker 1: it's like, do you have a desire to win? Uh? 414 00:19:22,000 --> 00:19:25,320 Speaker 1: Can you can you take being told no? Can you 415 00:19:25,400 --> 00:19:28,800 Speaker 1: take being told your music isn't good? Uh? Can you 416 00:19:28,840 --> 00:19:32,560 Speaker 1: take being told? Not yet? And if you can't handle 417 00:19:33,119 --> 00:19:35,879 Speaker 1: that type of stuff, I'm not saying you won't make it, 418 00:19:35,920 --> 00:19:38,240 Speaker 1: but it's probably the best we we don't work together, 419 00:19:38,640 --> 00:19:42,440 Speaker 1: you know, because I I you gotta have you gotta 420 00:19:42,480 --> 00:19:45,520 Speaker 1: have this resilience, you know, have this resiliency about you 421 00:19:46,000 --> 00:19:48,840 Speaker 1: to really um to really be able to push forward 422 00:19:48,880 --> 00:19:51,600 Speaker 1: and have really really thick skin because you're gonna hear 423 00:19:51,680 --> 00:19:54,480 Speaker 1: no a lot in this business a lot. And you 424 00:19:54,520 --> 00:19:57,600 Speaker 1: know that's the challenge right now with uh, I guess 425 00:19:57,600 --> 00:19:59,960 Speaker 1: it's with any generation. To be honest with you, every 426 00:20:00,040 --> 00:20:02,640 Speaker 1: one wants to start at the top, you know, no one. 427 00:20:03,480 --> 00:20:05,960 Speaker 1: Rarely do people want to put in the work. And 428 00:20:06,480 --> 00:20:08,720 Speaker 1: what I try to explain to people, which you know 429 00:20:08,840 --> 00:20:13,760 Speaker 1: I've learned, is being at the top is it's fantastic, 430 00:20:13,960 --> 00:20:17,359 Speaker 1: but but not as great as the journey to the top. Yeah, 431 00:20:17,680 --> 00:20:19,840 Speaker 1: And your whole thing is that credit your success to 432 00:20:19,920 --> 00:20:22,000 Speaker 1: getting with these artists in the beginning of the journeys 433 00:20:22,040 --> 00:20:24,680 Speaker 1: like Jay Given Beyonce. It almost seems like a dream 434 00:20:24,920 --> 00:20:27,840 Speaker 1: hit list of dream team of artists, Like almost unreal 435 00:20:27,840 --> 00:20:30,600 Speaker 1: if you mentioned that J b A, Kanye and Drake Usher, 436 00:20:31,200 --> 00:20:42,760 Speaker 1: Like that's insane. All one man snoope, what you made rock? 437 00:20:44,240 --> 00:20:47,840 Speaker 1: By the way, that's Mr Collige Park who produced that record. Yeah, 438 00:20:47,880 --> 00:20:49,320 Speaker 1: but what is it? What is it that you saw 439 00:20:49,359 --> 00:20:50,840 Speaker 1: in these artists at the beginning, Like give me an 440 00:20:50,840 --> 00:20:52,560 Speaker 1: example of one and like what you saw and he 441 00:20:52,640 --> 00:20:55,080 Speaker 1: was like, okay, I want to be in business with 442 00:20:55,119 --> 00:21:02,119 Speaker 1: this person. Um, it's funny, Like Usher is a good story. Um. 443 00:21:02,320 --> 00:21:05,960 Speaker 1: Usher was was this teenager who had an album um 444 00:21:06,119 --> 00:21:10,880 Speaker 1: initial uh debut release and they did okay, uh yeah, yeah, 445 00:21:10,920 --> 00:21:12,200 Speaker 1: yeah it did good. But he had the song called 446 00:21:12,240 --> 00:21:14,320 Speaker 1: thinking you did that song We're not Mistaken? That was 447 00:21:14,359 --> 00:21:15,800 Speaker 1: the hottest song on the album, right and it was 448 00:21:15,840 --> 00:21:17,840 Speaker 1: it was kind of a hit, and so actually it 449 00:21:17,880 --> 00:21:23,399 Speaker 1: wasn't hit Puff Sorry Puff, it wasn't. But he was 450 00:21:23,400 --> 00:21:27,359 Speaker 1: working on his second album and you know he I 451 00:21:27,400 --> 00:21:28,800 Speaker 1: don't even know if I knew he was working with 452 00:21:28,880 --> 00:21:32,320 Speaker 1: Jermaine yet at the time, but I eventually found out 453 00:21:32,359 --> 00:21:36,000 Speaker 1: he was working with j D And so he was 454 00:21:36,160 --> 00:21:39,439 Speaker 1: performing at this city of Hope event. It's it's a 455 00:21:39,480 --> 00:21:41,000 Speaker 1: longer story for Usher, but I want to tell you 456 00:21:41,040 --> 00:21:43,800 Speaker 1: what the moment that it really connected with me. And 457 00:21:43,960 --> 00:21:46,720 Speaker 1: he was performing at the City of Whole function and 458 00:21:47,440 --> 00:21:50,040 Speaker 1: l A and Baby Face for being honor they were honorees. 459 00:21:50,520 --> 00:21:54,240 Speaker 1: That year was twenty years ago actually this year, um 460 00:21:54,320 --> 00:21:56,399 Speaker 1: and so they had all of that artists performed. I 461 00:21:56,440 --> 00:21:59,480 Speaker 1: think perform. I think Tony Bracks perform, and Usher before 462 00:21:59,480 --> 00:22:01,440 Speaker 1: he's one of the earlier asked to perform. Then you 463 00:22:01,480 --> 00:22:03,680 Speaker 1: gotta remember he only had one album out, didn't you 464 00:22:03,760 --> 00:22:06,959 Speaker 1: didn't have a lot of material. I remember, like it 465 00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:10,920 Speaker 1: was yesterday, he comes out in this red leather suit 466 00:22:12,240 --> 00:22:16,600 Speaker 1: and did Bobby Brown. He performed Bobby Brown songs because 467 00:22:16,760 --> 00:22:18,840 Speaker 1: l A and Face wrote those songs, and he performed 468 00:22:18,880 --> 00:22:23,840 Speaker 1: Bobby Brown. He performed, I mean, he performed. Did he performed, 469 00:22:23,840 --> 00:22:25,600 Speaker 1: And I was like, I remember sitting there, I was like, 470 00:22:25,680 --> 00:22:29,000 Speaker 1: that guy's a star. He's a star. And I just 471 00:22:29,040 --> 00:22:31,520 Speaker 1: went on the mad pursuit after that, after him, and 472 00:22:31,560 --> 00:22:35,119 Speaker 1: then you know, maybe a few months later he made 473 00:22:35,119 --> 00:22:38,760 Speaker 1: one that came out to the moon, you know. So 474 00:22:39,680 --> 00:22:44,719 Speaker 1: you know, I often say people when they speak about me, 475 00:22:44,760 --> 00:22:48,800 Speaker 1: they speak about in my work. They speak about, you know, 476 00:22:49,200 --> 00:22:53,320 Speaker 1: the the icons that I work with, right, and and 477 00:22:53,359 --> 00:22:56,840 Speaker 1: that's fantastic because that's exactly what they are now. But 478 00:22:56,880 --> 00:22:59,639 Speaker 1: it didn't start that way. It started out of something 479 00:22:59,680 --> 00:23:02,280 Speaker 1: that I just heard that was fantastic, and I was like, 480 00:23:02,320 --> 00:23:03,800 Speaker 1: I want to I want to be a part of that. 481 00:23:04,160 --> 00:23:06,520 Speaker 1: And then they went on to be global icons. And 482 00:23:06,560 --> 00:23:09,440 Speaker 1: I think that's how I've been able to maintain such 483 00:23:09,440 --> 00:23:12,840 Speaker 1: great relationships is that I was there in the beginning 484 00:23:13,359 --> 00:23:16,560 Speaker 1: and with some of them. You know, I had a 485 00:23:16,600 --> 00:23:18,520 Speaker 1: hand in the journey. You know, I had a hand 486 00:23:18,520 --> 00:23:20,200 Speaker 1: and did by work for the part of the ride, 487 00:23:20,240 --> 00:23:22,800 Speaker 1: and it's it's fantastic. A lot of new artists saying 488 00:23:22,840 --> 00:23:25,200 Speaker 1: interviews and things that the nature that you know when 489 00:23:25,200 --> 00:23:27,520 Speaker 1: they're getting into the business, never signed a publishing deal. 490 00:23:27,880 --> 00:23:32,199 Speaker 1: What are your thoughts about that? Um, you have to 491 00:23:32,280 --> 00:23:34,919 Speaker 1: educate yourself. You have to educate yourself because because I 492 00:23:34,920 --> 00:23:36,640 Speaker 1: don't know why they would say that, So I don't 493 00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:39,520 Speaker 1: know their journey, you know there they may have they 494 00:23:39,640 --> 00:23:42,600 Speaker 1: made themselves or know if someone who who signed some 495 00:23:42,680 --> 00:23:45,280 Speaker 1: sort of an agreement and it wasn't a fair agreement, right, 496 00:23:45,680 --> 00:23:48,159 Speaker 1: So I can't speak on on their path. You know 497 00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:52,679 Speaker 1: what I will say, in today's business, people have to 498 00:23:52,680 --> 00:23:56,159 Speaker 1: be careful what they signed because you know, now we 499 00:23:56,240 --> 00:23:59,000 Speaker 1: have streaming, we have YouTube, we have all of these things, 500 00:23:59,480 --> 00:24:03,280 Speaker 1: sound clas out, you know, all these different ways where 501 00:24:03,280 --> 00:24:08,439 Speaker 1: you can get music out quickly. That what hurts my 502 00:24:08,520 --> 00:24:11,680 Speaker 1: heart the most is when someone does have some success 503 00:24:12,800 --> 00:24:14,880 Speaker 1: and then they want to do a publishing deal, right, 504 00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:17,400 Speaker 1: because you know, the publishers is kind of like your 505 00:24:17,400 --> 00:24:19,760 Speaker 1: first real check from a lot of people, because when 506 00:24:19,760 --> 00:24:22,840 Speaker 1: you sign a recording agreement, you know, you get some 507 00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:24,520 Speaker 1: money for your pocket, but most of that money is 508 00:24:24,560 --> 00:24:27,760 Speaker 1: to record to your budget. Right, So people go to 509 00:24:27,840 --> 00:24:30,840 Speaker 1: a publisher to get that real check to live off of. Right. 510 00:24:31,440 --> 00:24:33,400 Speaker 1: But there are times where a lot of these kids 511 00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:35,520 Speaker 1: they're getting these songs that are that are taken off 512 00:24:35,560 --> 00:24:37,680 Speaker 1: really quickly, and then they want to do a publishing deal, 513 00:24:38,560 --> 00:24:42,199 Speaker 1: only to find out that they can't because they signed 514 00:24:42,200 --> 00:24:45,760 Speaker 1: it away to someone at the studio, someone in the 515 00:24:45,760 --> 00:24:48,040 Speaker 1: streets somewhere wherever, like someone who was going to put 516 00:24:48,080 --> 00:24:50,439 Speaker 1: you on and and and it's and it's in the 517 00:24:50,520 --> 00:24:53,119 Speaker 1: contract so deep and if you don't know what it 518 00:24:53,280 --> 00:24:58,239 Speaker 1: is like a record you could touch, right. Publishing you 519 00:24:58,240 --> 00:25:01,000 Speaker 1: can't touch you can't touch it, so people don't view 520 00:25:01,040 --> 00:25:03,880 Speaker 1: it as valuable until they until you know. Let's say, 521 00:25:03,880 --> 00:25:05,479 Speaker 1: for instance, I'll give you a perfect example. Let's say 522 00:25:05,480 --> 00:25:08,000 Speaker 1: you too wrote a song, and let's say you signed 523 00:25:08,119 --> 00:25:11,160 Speaker 1: to the guy whoever it was right, and you didn't 524 00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:13,119 Speaker 1: know publishing was in the agreement. Let's say be that I 525 00:25:13,080 --> 00:25:15,160 Speaker 1: I didn't sign anything right, and the song takes off, 526 00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:18,159 Speaker 1: be that comes to me, we do a deal, a 527 00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:21,199 Speaker 1: couple hundred thousand dollars right, and then you're like, oh, 528 00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:23,600 Speaker 1: I want to do a deal too, and come to 529 00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:32,000 Speaker 1: find out you can't because because of that piece of 530 00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:34,600 Speaker 1: paper you signed. And so I if I can offer 531 00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:37,920 Speaker 1: anything um to the kids coming up right now, because 532 00:25:37,920 --> 00:25:40,800 Speaker 1: they're doing really good work, you know. And and and 533 00:25:41,280 --> 00:25:43,800 Speaker 1: it's harder now because records take off so quick now 534 00:25:43,800 --> 00:25:45,760 Speaker 1: and that's ever like even more so there's like a 535 00:25:45,840 --> 00:25:48,040 Speaker 1: grab to okay, let me just get on, let me 536 00:25:48,119 --> 00:25:51,040 Speaker 1: rush to get that big check. No. I don't know 537 00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:54,439 Speaker 1: if it's harder right now, but I do know what 538 00:25:54,560 --> 00:25:57,760 Speaker 1: I can say. It's harder to find people that you 539 00:25:57,800 --> 00:26:01,800 Speaker 1: know are in it for your career, Okay. Uh, I 540 00:26:01,800 --> 00:26:05,320 Speaker 1: think the business is moving so fast right now, that 541 00:26:05,320 --> 00:26:09,720 Speaker 1: that people are chasing the records instead of helping build careers. 542 00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:13,320 Speaker 1: And that's what I know how to do, and that's 543 00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:17,560 Speaker 1: what I believe in, is you know. And I'll tell anyone, um, 544 00:26:17,600 --> 00:26:19,119 Speaker 1: if they're coming to do a deal with me and 545 00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:21,480 Speaker 1: we're negotiating or we're talking about a deal in Nate 546 00:26:21,760 --> 00:26:24,280 Speaker 1: and they say, well, you know, let's say you know 547 00:26:24,600 --> 00:26:27,520 Speaker 1: that is coming to me and and and uh, you know, 548 00:26:27,560 --> 00:26:30,360 Speaker 1: we're talking about, you know, with his lawyer and him 549 00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:33,000 Speaker 1: or whatever about what the deal is worth. And he says, well, 550 00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:35,760 Speaker 1: such and such offering me this, you know, and let's 551 00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:38,680 Speaker 1: say it's more money. And I say, that's great, you 552 00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:39,800 Speaker 1: know what I mean. And I'll tell you if you 553 00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:41,440 Speaker 1: want to check go there, if you want the career, 554 00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:43,920 Speaker 1: you come here, you know what I mean. That's I'd 555 00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:46,000 Speaker 1: say it all day because I just feel what we 556 00:26:46,119 --> 00:26:48,320 Speaker 1: bring you if you come with us, or if you 557 00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:50,680 Speaker 1: come with me and the teams that I build, that 558 00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:53,640 Speaker 1: you're gonna get that money anyway and then some because 559 00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:55,560 Speaker 1: we're gonna work with you to do it. So you 560 00:26:55,600 --> 00:26:57,240 Speaker 1: say that, you keep your confidence and even if you 561 00:26:57,280 --> 00:26:59,440 Speaker 1: lose out on somebody, you're saying like that doesn't gonna 562 00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:01,040 Speaker 1: last like for you or for years, He'll be back 563 00:27:01,080 --> 00:27:03,760 Speaker 1: around now. I don't know. I don't know. I don't 564 00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:07,960 Speaker 1: know if I said that arrogant, but but but I 565 00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:11,480 Speaker 1: do believe that you know, um, listen, all deals have 566 00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:14,960 Speaker 1: an expiration date on them, right, And so you know, 567 00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:16,520 Speaker 1: I feel people should be where they want to be, 568 00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:19,159 Speaker 1: you know, period, not just because of the check, not 569 00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:21,119 Speaker 1: just because of what someone said you should be. You 570 00:27:21,119 --> 00:27:23,400 Speaker 1: should be with who you feel comfortable with, whether that's 571 00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:25,960 Speaker 1: me or someone else. That's just how it works. But 572 00:27:26,040 --> 00:27:29,840 Speaker 1: I also know that deals end, and if it's something 573 00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:32,120 Speaker 1: I'm super passionate about, and I don't really chase deals 574 00:27:32,119 --> 00:27:34,520 Speaker 1: that I'm not super passionate about, then I know when 575 00:27:34,520 --> 00:27:36,320 Speaker 1: you're deal is coming up and I'm gonna be there 576 00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:39,160 Speaker 1: and we can try to do this dance again. Wow? 577 00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:41,600 Speaker 1: Would you take someone like off the streets? Like? How 578 00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:44,600 Speaker 1: do you find these talents? These talents, you know, writers 579 00:27:44,600 --> 00:27:46,640 Speaker 1: and artists? It like they have to have a buzz 580 00:27:46,680 --> 00:27:49,399 Speaker 1: already or is it? Man? I could care less. I 581 00:27:49,400 --> 00:27:51,560 Speaker 1: can care less. All I care about is great music. 582 00:27:51,640 --> 00:27:53,359 Speaker 1: You know. All I care about this great music. I 583 00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:56,200 Speaker 1: mean I've literally done that. I've done that more than 584 00:27:56,359 --> 00:27:58,000 Speaker 1: than the other, to be honest with you, you know 585 00:27:58,000 --> 00:28:00,000 Speaker 1: what I mean? Like I sagned a writer about any 586 00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:03,240 Speaker 1: my Harold Lily all right. And so a friend of 587 00:28:03,280 --> 00:28:06,960 Speaker 1: mine was meeting with me manager playing me an artist 588 00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:09,480 Speaker 1: who who who was an established artist for a publishing deal. 589 00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:12,320 Speaker 1: And I liked the songs, but I I didn't. I 590 00:28:12,320 --> 00:28:14,440 Speaker 1: didn't love a ton of them. You know, they didn't 591 00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:16,560 Speaker 1: resonate with me, right and so, and he I was 592 00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:17,919 Speaker 1: straight up with himself, I don't know if this is 593 00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:20,440 Speaker 1: for me. So we're just talking. I turned the music down, 594 00:28:20,600 --> 00:28:24,080 Speaker 1: but it's like in the whisper and we're talking. As 595 00:28:24,119 --> 00:28:27,199 Speaker 1: we're talking, I hear this song and I'm talking to him, 596 00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:29,320 Speaker 1: but I'm hearing the song. It's like literally so low. 597 00:28:30,119 --> 00:28:32,280 Speaker 1: So the song goes off and I said, let me 598 00:28:32,280 --> 00:28:35,199 Speaker 1: have something. She wrote that song. It was a duet, 599 00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:37,600 Speaker 1: and he was like, I think I played it again. 600 00:28:37,640 --> 00:28:39,160 Speaker 1: He was like, I don't think she wrote that song. 601 00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:43,520 Speaker 1: I was like, oh listen, I said, So I say 602 00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:45,240 Speaker 1: to him, well, who wrote it? He was like I 603 00:28:45,280 --> 00:28:49,560 Speaker 1: don't know. I says, um, can you call it? So 604 00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:57,080 Speaker 1: he calls her and she says, that's my friend Harold, 605 00:28:58,280 --> 00:29:00,800 Speaker 1: and so I'm like, okay, cool. So I'm trying to talk. 606 00:29:00,840 --> 00:29:02,840 Speaker 1: He's like, keeping from getting phone, so he takes the 607 00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:05,160 Speaker 1: phone back. I'll get I'll get all the information for you. 608 00:29:06,240 --> 00:29:09,560 Speaker 1: And I didn't hear from him the next I assumed 609 00:29:09,560 --> 00:29:11,280 Speaker 1: I wasn't gonna hear from him the next day or two. 610 00:29:11,760 --> 00:29:15,160 Speaker 1: But that night I remembered a friend of one of 611 00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:17,800 Speaker 1: my closest friends from Denver, and he was dating a 612 00:29:17,800 --> 00:29:19,760 Speaker 1: girl at the time. He ended up Marriner, but he 613 00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:23,120 Speaker 1: would always say this artist that he was meeting with 614 00:29:23,280 --> 00:29:26,200 Speaker 1: was her cousin, and it would go in one and 615 00:29:26,280 --> 00:29:28,520 Speaker 1: out there. I didn't mean anything to me, and it 616 00:29:28,640 --> 00:29:30,640 Speaker 1: popped in my head and I called him. I said, hey, 617 00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:34,400 Speaker 1: didn't you say your girl is cousins with with this artist? 618 00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:37,600 Speaker 1: He said yeah. I said, can you call her? I'm 619 00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:39,600 Speaker 1: trying to find this songwriter. All I know is his 620 00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:45,480 Speaker 1: name is Harold. So she does that and he calls 621 00:29:45,560 --> 00:29:47,880 Speaker 1: me back the next day. Okay, here goes she she 622 00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:50,000 Speaker 1: couldn't find her cousin, but she talked to her aunt, 623 00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:53,160 Speaker 1: and the guy's name is Harold Lily and his mom's 624 00:29:53,240 --> 00:29:55,280 Speaker 1: name is such a slash, and here goes his phone number. 625 00:29:55,800 --> 00:29:58,480 Speaker 1: Game of the phone number I called Harold. He didn't 626 00:29:58,480 --> 00:30:00,360 Speaker 1: know what the publishing deal was. He didn't know anything. 627 00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:03,520 Speaker 1: He thought it was a prank phone call. Actually, and 628 00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:06,280 Speaker 1: and so, um. You know, long story short, we we 629 00:30:06,360 --> 00:30:08,240 Speaker 1: got together, we did a deal. He wouldn't call me 630 00:30:08,280 --> 00:30:10,600 Speaker 1: back forever, by the way, and then one day he 631 00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:12,160 Speaker 1: was in the studio. I didn't know this after I 632 00:30:12,160 --> 00:30:14,320 Speaker 1: signed him. He was in the studio with a bunch 633 00:30:14,320 --> 00:30:17,760 Speaker 1: of other writers and producers and working on stuff because 634 00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:19,600 Speaker 1: he worked with Missy a lot as well, and so 635 00:30:19,880 --> 00:30:23,200 Speaker 1: and so, um, just trying to get on right. And 636 00:30:23,240 --> 00:30:26,320 Speaker 1: so they're telling stories about fake people in the industry, 637 00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:29,760 Speaker 1: and he's like, yeah, man, some dude named Big John 638 00:30:29,800 --> 00:30:33,040 Speaker 1: called my house talking about jail or something like that. 639 00:30:33,080 --> 00:30:36,840 Speaker 1: And he says the studio got quiet, and so and 640 00:30:36,920 --> 00:30:39,160 Speaker 1: so he and he's talking and the guy says, some 641 00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:41,160 Speaker 1: guys sitting next to me said women, big John called 642 00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:44,760 Speaker 1: your house. He's like, yeah, who is he? He's like, 643 00:30:45,040 --> 00:30:48,040 Speaker 1: he called your house. He's like, yeah, what do he says? 644 00:30:48,040 --> 00:30:49,680 Speaker 1: He said, you want to do a publishing deal? He said, well, 645 00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:51,640 Speaker 1: what do you do? I didn't call him back, and 646 00:30:51,680 --> 00:30:53,680 Speaker 1: they just started going Crazyer, you ain't call him back. 647 00:30:56,040 --> 00:30:57,600 Speaker 1: He called me back, we got the deal done. And 648 00:30:57,640 --> 00:31:00,360 Speaker 1: then so that's that's an The street with the beauty 649 00:31:00,360 --> 00:31:02,320 Speaker 1: of that whole story is he came to l A, 650 00:31:02,520 --> 00:31:06,240 Speaker 1: starts writing the songs everything. Um, he gets in the 651 00:31:06,280 --> 00:31:09,400 Speaker 1: studio with a very young Kanye West and they write 652 00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:11,000 Speaker 1: a song called you Don't Know My Name for Alicia 653 00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:13,040 Speaker 1: Keys and then Harold want to grab me, He want 654 00:31:13,040 --> 00:31:15,040 Speaker 1: to grab me Award, he want to grab I was 655 00:31:15,080 --> 00:31:16,840 Speaker 1: sitting right next to him when he wanted to grabby 656 00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:18,840 Speaker 1: and I'll never forget that moment. And I saw something 657 00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:20,480 Speaker 1: you work with Jez, and I think he was saying 658 00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:22,120 Speaker 1: it was an important conversation when you was kind of 659 00:31:22,120 --> 00:31:24,200 Speaker 1: telling him, you know, because that's somebody who had the 660 00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:26,960 Speaker 1: transition out of the streets into the business. Yeah, and 661 00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:28,680 Speaker 1: you sort of, bro, it's a life to him that 662 00:31:28,760 --> 00:31:30,560 Speaker 1: this is your this is now your path, this is 663 00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:33,640 Speaker 1: your career. Yeah, you know. Jeez is one of those 664 00:31:33,720 --> 00:31:37,360 Speaker 1: artists where, first of all, he was starting to bubble 665 00:31:37,400 --> 00:31:39,840 Speaker 1: on the mix tapes, right, and I wanted I wanted 666 00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:41,560 Speaker 1: to sign I knew what this was gonna be. I 667 00:31:41,640 --> 00:31:46,040 Speaker 1: knew what it was. Yeah, Yeah, I wanted to sign him. 668 00:31:46,120 --> 00:31:48,840 Speaker 1: And he was not interested in doing a publishing deal 669 00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:52,800 Speaker 1: at all at all. It would call his lawyer like, 670 00:31:52,960 --> 00:31:54,640 Speaker 1: n he doesn't want to meet you, he doesn't want 671 00:31:54,640 --> 00:31:57,440 Speaker 1: to publishing deal, Like he's not interested in money. I 672 00:31:57,480 --> 00:32:00,920 Speaker 1: don't know that part. So one night I was in 673 00:32:01,120 --> 00:32:03,880 Speaker 1: I was in Tallahassee, Florida, visiting my brother, and I 674 00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:07,120 Speaker 1: was in a holiday inn and it was it was torture, 675 00:32:07,160 --> 00:32:09,760 Speaker 1: trust me. So I didn't want to stay in the room. 676 00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:12,240 Speaker 1: So I ended up going downstairs because that was the 677 00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:14,200 Speaker 1: only place I could get internet was in this little 678 00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:17,480 Speaker 1: bitty makeshift business center they had, And so I got 679 00:32:17,520 --> 00:32:19,880 Speaker 1: on the internet and I'm just you know, doing stuff 680 00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:22,680 Speaker 1: and I and I typed up a deal and I 681 00:32:22,720 --> 00:32:24,479 Speaker 1: sent it to his lawyer. It's like two or three 682 00:32:24,480 --> 00:32:25,760 Speaker 1: in the morning. I had nothing else to do, but 683 00:32:25,800 --> 00:32:27,800 Speaker 1: I'm like typing up the deal this I sent it 684 00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:31,400 Speaker 1: to the lawyer. Lawyer calls me Monday. He says, um, 685 00:32:31,400 --> 00:32:33,400 Speaker 1: what what is what is this? You sent me? Like 686 00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:35,800 Speaker 1: I told you, Jeez doesn't want to do a deal. 687 00:32:36,360 --> 00:32:37,880 Speaker 1: I said, now, that's what you said, But your lawyer 688 00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:39,600 Speaker 1: and I sent your offering. You have an obligation now 689 00:32:39,640 --> 00:32:44,280 Speaker 1: to show him the offer. And so and so he 690 00:32:44,400 --> 00:32:47,680 Speaker 1: sent the offer to Jeez and he says, he calls 691 00:32:47,720 --> 00:32:49,560 Speaker 1: me back, you know, a few days later, he says, 692 00:32:50,120 --> 00:32:51,640 Speaker 1: he still doesn't want to do a publishing it, but 693 00:32:51,640 --> 00:32:54,720 Speaker 1: he wants to meet you. He wants to meet like that. Yeah, 694 00:32:54,760 --> 00:32:56,360 Speaker 1: he wants to meet you. He wants to know who's 695 00:32:56,400 --> 00:32:59,040 Speaker 1: so crazy that they send an offers. When I when 696 00:32:59,040 --> 00:33:01,520 Speaker 1: he didn't want to do a deal, I went to 697 00:33:01,560 --> 00:33:03,880 Speaker 1: Atlanta and met him at this house. And I mean 698 00:33:03,880 --> 00:33:07,040 Speaker 1: this house was big. It's big. No new artists lived 699 00:33:07,080 --> 00:33:10,080 Speaker 1: like j new artists. Did you come alone? Yeah? I 700 00:33:10,080 --> 00:33:12,320 Speaker 1: didn't go alone. Actually I did go alone. I think 701 00:33:12,360 --> 00:33:15,520 Speaker 1: it was lawyer might have been with me, but I went. 702 00:33:15,640 --> 00:33:17,760 Speaker 1: And you know, so then Jeez comes and we sat 703 00:33:17,800 --> 00:33:20,520 Speaker 1: down and we started talking and he said, I like 704 00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:23,320 Speaker 1: you man, and uh and then we you know, we 705 00:33:23,320 --> 00:33:25,040 Speaker 1: gotta deal done. But it took forever to get the 706 00:33:25,040 --> 00:33:27,040 Speaker 1: deal done. Like people don't know. I signed Jeez in 707 00:33:27,080 --> 00:33:31,040 Speaker 1: the Chicago airport. That's what we signed the deal in 708 00:33:31,080 --> 00:33:34,760 Speaker 1: the airport, in the airport. In the airport. I met 709 00:33:34,840 --> 00:33:36,280 Speaker 1: him in d C. That's where we were supposed to 710 00:33:36,280 --> 00:33:38,959 Speaker 1: sign it because you know, the album, first album had 711 00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:40,680 Speaker 1: just come out. He's like, come to the record release party. 712 00:33:40,680 --> 00:33:43,040 Speaker 1: We're gonna do the deal then, and deal was fully negotiated. 713 00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:46,080 Speaker 1: Me and his lawyer. We go to d C. Yeah, yeah, 714 00:33:46,080 --> 00:33:49,200 Speaker 1: we're deal. We are execution copies go to d C. 715 00:33:51,200 --> 00:33:54,200 Speaker 1: Down and and so I got by the way, I'm excited. 716 00:33:54,560 --> 00:33:56,160 Speaker 1: So I got I hired for time. I never do 717 00:33:56,360 --> 00:34:00,320 Speaker 1: hid atgrapher the whole everything, right, something at the hotel. 718 00:34:00,360 --> 00:34:01,720 Speaker 1: I asked the hotel, how you use a room for 719 00:34:01,760 --> 00:34:05,600 Speaker 1: the pictures, the whole everything. Yeah. So so then Jeez 720 00:34:05,760 --> 00:34:09,040 Speaker 1: walks in, got the shades on everything, he sits down, 721 00:34:09,560 --> 00:34:11,359 Speaker 1: we start chopping it up. I was like, yo, man, 722 00:34:11,680 --> 00:34:15,359 Speaker 1: all right, let's do this man. So he's like, all right, man, 723 00:34:15,400 --> 00:34:17,560 Speaker 1: let's do it later. I was like, we'll be right 724 00:34:17,600 --> 00:34:20,239 Speaker 1: here right now. Let's do it after the show. I'm 725 00:34:20,280 --> 00:34:23,640 Speaker 1: like after the show. He's like yeah, I'm like all right. 726 00:34:23,800 --> 00:34:25,520 Speaker 1: So we go to the show with this club. I mean, 727 00:34:25,560 --> 00:34:27,560 Speaker 1: he turned this club out. I mean people is hanging 728 00:34:27,560 --> 00:34:30,680 Speaker 1: from the rafters singing every single word, every single Jesy song. 729 00:34:31,320 --> 00:34:35,480 Speaker 1: We get back to the hotel, Jesus nowhere to be found. 730 00:34:35,960 --> 00:34:39,480 Speaker 1: You nowhere to be found. So the next morning I 731 00:34:39,560 --> 00:34:41,680 Speaker 1: show up again. I'm leaving. I said, they said we're 732 00:34:41,680 --> 00:34:42,960 Speaker 1: here to do it in the morning. I said, right, 733 00:34:43,560 --> 00:34:45,360 Speaker 1: I don't know. No artists is waking up that early. 734 00:34:45,480 --> 00:34:48,720 Speaker 1: So I go anyway, wait for two or three hours, 735 00:34:48,960 --> 00:34:51,320 Speaker 1: no jeezy. So now I have to go to the airport. 736 00:34:51,719 --> 00:34:53,840 Speaker 1: I'm out. I feel a little disrespected, you know what 737 00:34:53,840 --> 00:34:55,359 Speaker 1: I'm saying, Like I'm flowing all the way out here, 738 00:34:55,400 --> 00:34:58,040 Speaker 1: and it's all good. So he calls me a couple 739 00:34:58,040 --> 00:35:01,239 Speaker 1: of days later, Oh my bad, you know such a such. 740 00:35:01,320 --> 00:35:03,319 Speaker 1: You know, I really want to get with you, but 741 00:35:03,520 --> 00:35:05,120 Speaker 1: I got a bunch of stuff I gotta do and 742 00:35:05,320 --> 00:35:07,240 Speaker 1: we'll catch up at a different time. I'm like, okay, 743 00:35:07,360 --> 00:35:08,719 Speaker 1: I said, where are you going? He said, I gotta 744 00:35:08,719 --> 00:35:11,719 Speaker 1: go to Chicago. I was like, I'm gonna be in 745 00:35:11,800 --> 00:35:14,759 Speaker 1: Chicago because I was literally gonna be in Chicago there. 746 00:35:14,880 --> 00:35:16,759 Speaker 1: And I can hear him on the phone, go like 747 00:35:18,280 --> 00:35:21,279 Speaker 1: I I could just hear it. And so I meet 748 00:35:21,360 --> 00:35:24,560 Speaker 1: him in Chicago. I can't find jeez. Give me to 749 00:35:24,640 --> 00:35:27,600 Speaker 1: run around again everywhere he say he's gonna be at 750 00:35:27,640 --> 00:35:31,440 Speaker 1: He's not there. Right, I'm in my hotels Saturday. I'm 751 00:35:31,480 --> 00:35:33,279 Speaker 1: I've done my business and I was supposed to do 752 00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:35,360 Speaker 1: there and I'm I'm trying to be out and my 753 00:35:35,400 --> 00:35:38,759 Speaker 1: phone rings and its jeezy. He's like, I'm like, what's up, man, 754 00:35:38,880 --> 00:35:42,279 Speaker 1: And so he's talking to me, and so then Jeez goes, man, 755 00:35:42,320 --> 00:35:43,600 Speaker 1: I know you want to do this deal, this this, 756 00:35:43,680 --> 00:35:45,279 Speaker 1: and then he goes, I get a look, I get 757 00:35:45,280 --> 00:35:47,160 Speaker 1: a little more money. I was like, we're talking about 758 00:35:47,160 --> 00:35:50,279 Speaker 1: the deals negotiated. It's a great deal. Jesus got one 759 00:35:50,280 --> 00:35:52,399 Speaker 1: of the best deals I ever did. And so I said, 760 00:35:52,400 --> 00:35:54,080 Speaker 1: it's a great deal. So we're talking. He's like, all right, man, 761 00:35:54,080 --> 00:35:55,680 Speaker 1: I'm messing with you. I'm messing with you. I'm ready 762 00:35:55,680 --> 00:35:57,319 Speaker 1: to do it. I was like, ally, where you at. 763 00:35:57,360 --> 00:35:58,960 Speaker 1: He goes, I'm at the airport. I at the airport. 764 00:35:59,360 --> 00:36:00,840 Speaker 1: He's like, yeah, I'm even in about an hour and 765 00:36:00,840 --> 00:36:05,080 Speaker 1: a half to leave. To leave, I was like, I'll 766 00:36:05,080 --> 00:36:06,239 Speaker 1: be there. He said, you ain't gonna make it here 767 00:36:06,239 --> 00:36:09,360 Speaker 1: to I said, I'll be there. I went downstairs to 768 00:36:09,440 --> 00:36:11,240 Speaker 1: the conciergee. I said, I need to know the republic. 769 00:36:11,320 --> 00:36:13,479 Speaker 1: He's know, most concierge and no republics and you gotta 770 00:36:13,600 --> 00:36:16,560 Speaker 1: this notarize at least back then, I said, can you 771 00:36:16,680 --> 00:36:18,879 Speaker 1: ride with me to the Chicago airport? He was like, no, 772 00:36:18,960 --> 00:36:21,120 Speaker 1: we don't do that. I said, trust me, ride with me. 773 00:36:21,239 --> 00:36:23,799 Speaker 1: It's a big deal. I get the guy to ride 774 00:36:23,840 --> 00:36:25,480 Speaker 1: with me. We go to the airport. He's such a 775 00:36:25,480 --> 00:36:28,680 Speaker 1: little private airports. He's flying private that day and he's 776 00:36:28,680 --> 00:36:31,720 Speaker 1: been flying private back then, just so you know. So 777 00:36:31,719 --> 00:36:35,680 Speaker 1: so we go there and Jez was there, and we 778 00:36:35,719 --> 00:36:38,680 Speaker 1: went in a little room and we got the business done. 779 00:36:39,400 --> 00:36:40,960 Speaker 1: And I remember I gave him the check. It was 780 00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:42,920 Speaker 1: a big check too, by the way, a big lot 781 00:36:42,960 --> 00:36:45,839 Speaker 1: of zeros, a big check. I gave him the check 782 00:36:46,280 --> 00:36:48,520 Speaker 1: and he gave me the check back. What he said, 783 00:36:48,520 --> 00:36:50,040 Speaker 1: what I'm doing with this? I said, I don't know? 784 00:36:50,120 --> 00:36:52,840 Speaker 1: Cash it? So he gives me the check back. He 785 00:36:52,840 --> 00:36:56,319 Speaker 1: said keep it for me, and he left. Still done. 786 00:36:56,400 --> 00:36:58,200 Speaker 1: He gives me the check back to hold for him. 787 00:36:58,480 --> 00:37:00,239 Speaker 1: So I get back to l A. I call it lawyer. 788 00:37:00,280 --> 00:37:02,719 Speaker 1: I said, Jez gave me the check back. I said, 789 00:37:02,719 --> 00:37:05,200 Speaker 1: I'm gonna send it to you. Send it to his lawyer, 790 00:37:06,800 --> 00:37:09,680 Speaker 1: and the lawyer holds onto the check. All of a sudden, 791 00:37:09,680 --> 00:37:13,480 Speaker 1: about three months later, I get a call from the lawyer, Hey, 792 00:37:13,640 --> 00:37:15,440 Speaker 1: can we send you this check back because it's at 793 00:37:15,440 --> 00:37:16,640 Speaker 1: the end of the year. You know, we don't want 794 00:37:16,640 --> 00:37:18,799 Speaker 1: to tax on it. Right um to the following year. 795 00:37:19,120 --> 00:37:21,640 Speaker 1: I said, what check? He goes to check from Jesus advance. 796 00:37:21,680 --> 00:37:24,520 Speaker 1: I said, you guys didn't catch that check it. He 797 00:37:24,600 --> 00:37:29,319 Speaker 1: said no, he sends me to check back. I send 798 00:37:29,320 --> 00:37:30,759 Speaker 1: the check to New York. I said, we're gonna write 799 00:37:30,760 --> 00:37:32,239 Speaker 1: the check after the you know, first of the year. 800 00:37:32,480 --> 00:37:37,480 Speaker 1: All good. That happens like clockwork. Right April, I get 801 00:37:37,520 --> 00:37:41,000 Speaker 1: a call from Jeez. This is like eight months later, 802 00:37:41,080 --> 00:37:43,520 Speaker 1: by the way, I get a call from Jeez Yo. Man, 803 00:37:43,520 --> 00:37:45,719 Speaker 1: what's uping? Man? And we are close at this time, right, 804 00:37:45,800 --> 00:37:48,239 Speaker 1: we're super close. Man, what's upthing? Man? I said, what's 805 00:37:48,239 --> 00:37:50,520 Speaker 1: going on? Man? Man? My lawyer, my lawyer tripping man? 806 00:37:50,560 --> 00:37:52,360 Speaker 1: I said, what's going on? Man? I went to an 807 00:37:52,400 --> 00:37:54,760 Speaker 1: office to get my check. They can't find my check. 808 00:37:55,200 --> 00:37:58,080 Speaker 1: So i'thing, like, what check the check you gave me? 809 00:37:58,120 --> 00:38:01,160 Speaker 1: I said, the publishing check. Yeah, I said, you haven't 810 00:38:01,200 --> 00:38:03,040 Speaker 1: cash that check yet, Man, I'm going to get it. 811 00:38:03,040 --> 00:38:04,719 Speaker 1: Eight They play with my money. They play my money. 812 00:38:04,719 --> 00:38:06,319 Speaker 1: They can't find my checking about the fire all that, Man, 813 00:38:06,320 --> 00:38:10,359 Speaker 1: it's gonna be some problems, said Jeezy, calmed down. I said, 814 00:38:10,360 --> 00:38:12,040 Speaker 1: I could check within ten minutes and find out if 815 00:38:12,040 --> 00:38:14,160 Speaker 1: the check has been cashed. I said, it hasn't been 816 00:38:14,160 --> 00:38:16,080 Speaker 1: cash I promise you if it hasn't been cast with 817 00:38:16,239 --> 00:38:17,680 Speaker 1: you give you a new check. You could do that 818 00:38:19,400 --> 00:38:22,200 Speaker 1: called of course there was no problem. It hasn't been done. 819 00:38:22,200 --> 00:38:23,960 Speaker 1: We got him a new check. But it was eight 820 00:38:25,440 --> 00:38:27,440 Speaker 1: Jeezy had money, man, That's why he didn't cash it. 821 00:38:27,480 --> 00:38:29,080 Speaker 1: He didn't need to cash it. So why do you 822 00:38:29,120 --> 00:38:30,719 Speaker 1: think he signed if he had the money? Like that 823 00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:33,000 Speaker 1: the whole thing, like, you know you can, you can 824 00:38:33,040 --> 00:38:34,520 Speaker 1: you I mean, you could have the most money in 825 00:38:34,520 --> 00:38:37,120 Speaker 1: the world, you still need someone that minister. You're publishing, right, 826 00:38:37,200 --> 00:38:39,640 Speaker 1: you know that's a job. That's a job, and that's 827 00:38:39,640 --> 00:38:41,759 Speaker 1: what we do, right, That's what I do. That's what 828 00:38:41,800 --> 00:38:44,160 Speaker 1: the companies I work for it does. That's what music 829 00:38:44,200 --> 00:38:46,479 Speaker 1: publishers do. You can have the most money in the world, 830 00:38:46,480 --> 00:38:49,040 Speaker 1: the biggest hits or whatever, you still need someone to 831 00:38:49,080 --> 00:38:51,799 Speaker 1: track down all those revenue streams for you and make 832 00:38:51,840 --> 00:38:54,439 Speaker 1: sure you're being paid correctly. That's very important, you said, 833 00:38:54,600 --> 00:38:56,319 Speaker 1: and the interview wants you said that people used to 834 00:38:56,320 --> 00:38:58,600 Speaker 1: watch the charts like, you know, what is your litmus 835 00:38:58,640 --> 00:39:01,440 Speaker 1: test or how do you evaluate the record? To the music. Man, 836 00:39:01,840 --> 00:39:05,359 Speaker 1: I don't care about no charts. I don't like you know, 837 00:39:06,280 --> 00:39:08,879 Speaker 1: I believe if it's great, well, that part is will 838 00:39:08,880 --> 00:39:11,480 Speaker 1: take care of itself. Right. I'm more concerned about how 839 00:39:11,480 --> 00:39:13,759 Speaker 1: many times can we do that, not if we will 840 00:39:13,800 --> 00:39:16,960 Speaker 1: do that. You know, I never signed a songwriter. I 841 00:39:17,000 --> 00:39:18,600 Speaker 1: think if they have the number thirty seven song on 842 00:39:18,640 --> 00:39:20,960 Speaker 1: the charts, I always signed a songwriter because I think 843 00:39:20,960 --> 00:39:23,279 Speaker 1: they're gonna write number one songs. Some of them have 844 00:39:23,320 --> 00:39:26,080 Speaker 1: written them already and some haven't written them yet, you know, 845 00:39:26,239 --> 00:39:28,239 Speaker 1: but I believe they will. You always, I saw something 846 00:39:28,280 --> 00:39:30,320 Speaker 1: you said you listen. You listen also for a moment 847 00:39:30,320 --> 00:39:33,120 Speaker 1: of greatness, and that's what you love about Beyonce, that 848 00:39:33,200 --> 00:39:35,359 Speaker 1: she has that and takes it to another level. You've 849 00:39:35,400 --> 00:39:37,719 Speaker 1: really done your homework. You're really trying to slide her name, 850 00:39:37,760 --> 00:39:45,520 Speaker 1: are really really hold like? What is like like is 851 00:39:45,520 --> 00:39:47,800 Speaker 1: that moments that Beyonce is catalog When you listen, it 852 00:39:47,840 --> 00:39:52,560 Speaker 1: goes again that she enjoyed it as a music, as 853 00:39:52,560 --> 00:39:56,560 Speaker 1: a music had like you know, listen, it's it's you know, 854 00:39:56,640 --> 00:39:59,680 Speaker 1: we make music together. So my thing is, you know, 855 00:39:59,719 --> 00:40:02,560 Speaker 1: what what I say is what I mean by when 856 00:40:02,600 --> 00:40:06,040 Speaker 1: I listened to a moment of greatness. When I listen 857 00:40:06,080 --> 00:40:09,200 Speaker 1: to music, I'm just looking for anything that's great. It 858 00:40:09,239 --> 00:40:11,400 Speaker 1: could be a verse, it could be the beat, it 859 00:40:11,440 --> 00:40:13,440 Speaker 1: could be the bridge, it could be just a run 860 00:40:13,520 --> 00:40:17,000 Speaker 1: in the song. Anything. Is there anything great in here 861 00:40:17,200 --> 00:40:20,560 Speaker 1: that we could build upon to make the whole thing great? 862 00:40:21,160 --> 00:40:23,359 Speaker 1: And you know she listens to music the same way. 863 00:40:23,520 --> 00:40:27,920 Speaker 1: You know, That's how we connect. We listen for anything great, anything, 864 00:40:28,600 --> 00:40:30,840 Speaker 1: and let's build on that. Like you you you know, 865 00:40:31,000 --> 00:40:32,520 Speaker 1: I don't want to with some artists like that, you 866 00:40:32,560 --> 00:40:34,600 Speaker 1: have more of a hands on in the creation process. 867 00:40:34,600 --> 00:40:38,960 Speaker 1: Like Yeah, it's just it's just I mean, it's it's 868 00:40:38,960 --> 00:40:40,680 Speaker 1: not just her, it's it's other artists as well. It's 869 00:40:40,719 --> 00:40:43,440 Speaker 1: it's just, you know, whenever I feel it, I don't 870 00:40:43,480 --> 00:40:46,040 Speaker 1: do it just because just to do it, you know. 871 00:40:46,200 --> 00:40:49,080 Speaker 1: And I think that's why I have such great relationships 872 00:40:49,080 --> 00:40:53,960 Speaker 1: with artists. I'm not I'm not sending them songs every day, right. 873 00:40:54,560 --> 00:40:57,000 Speaker 1: I send them songs when I feel there's a song 874 00:40:57,040 --> 00:41:00,600 Speaker 1: that's right for them. And when I send songs, people listen. 875 00:41:01,160 --> 00:41:02,680 Speaker 1: They may hit me back and say they don't like it, 876 00:41:03,120 --> 00:41:06,200 Speaker 1: that's okay, you know, um, but they listened because I'm 877 00:41:06,200 --> 00:41:08,400 Speaker 1: not hitting them every day, and and and when I 878 00:41:08,400 --> 00:41:10,640 Speaker 1: sent them, it's it's usually something special. I think a 879 00:41:10,680 --> 00:41:12,080 Speaker 1: great story with that is that you worked with j 880 00:41:12,200 --> 00:41:14,239 Speaker 1: for so long and then Empire State of Mind was 881 00:41:14,280 --> 00:41:16,400 Speaker 1: the record that you brought a demo of it to 882 00:41:16,520 --> 00:41:18,719 Speaker 1: him sure and developed into the record which became his 883 00:41:18,760 --> 00:41:20,640 Speaker 1: first number one record. Yeah. I sent him that song 884 00:41:20,680 --> 00:41:23,200 Speaker 1: on Father's days before before he had kids. If I'm 885 00:41:23,239 --> 00:41:25,600 Speaker 1: not mistaken, and but I did, and I was the 886 00:41:25,600 --> 00:41:27,799 Speaker 1: only reason I was in town was was was was 887 00:41:27,840 --> 00:41:31,239 Speaker 1: for b show um, and that day before I went 888 00:41:31,280 --> 00:41:33,239 Speaker 1: to a barbecue. That's why I found the record. That 889 00:41:33,320 --> 00:41:35,759 Speaker 1: was at a barbecue. Um. Some songwriters that we're working with, 890 00:41:35,800 --> 00:41:39,000 Speaker 1: the E M I Um, Angela Hunt and Janet Um Suo. 891 00:41:40,040 --> 00:41:42,040 Speaker 1: They wrote the song. It was an R and B song. 892 00:41:42,080 --> 00:41:43,800 Speaker 1: A lot of people don't know that it was R 893 00:41:43,840 --> 00:41:47,440 Speaker 1: and B song, two minute R and B demo, two verses, 894 00:41:47,480 --> 00:41:50,360 Speaker 1: two hooks, concrete jungle, the whole the whole thing. I 895 00:41:50,440 --> 00:41:52,480 Speaker 1: was in there. I was in there and so um. 896 00:41:52,560 --> 00:41:55,840 Speaker 1: But it was singing verses and so they were supposed 897 00:41:55,840 --> 00:41:59,400 Speaker 1: to see me an instrumental and instrumental with only the hook. 898 00:42:00,000 --> 00:42:01,920 Speaker 1: But they wrote the song in London, so they couldn't 899 00:42:01,960 --> 00:42:04,400 Speaker 1: track the producer down to get to get the parts, 900 00:42:04,840 --> 00:42:07,480 Speaker 1: and so they just sent me. I said, we'll just 901 00:42:07,520 --> 00:42:10,080 Speaker 1: send me the regular version right um, which they did 902 00:42:10,200 --> 00:42:12,080 Speaker 1: the next day. They didn't send him where they were 903 00:42:12,080 --> 00:42:13,600 Speaker 1: supposed to, and I thought they were flaked on me. 904 00:42:13,600 --> 00:42:15,040 Speaker 1: And the next morning I woke up and the songs 905 00:42:15,040 --> 00:42:17,279 Speaker 1: were in my inbox and I listened to it. I 906 00:42:17,360 --> 00:42:19,800 Speaker 1: might listening to my at my computer like twenty times. 907 00:42:20,480 --> 00:42:22,960 Speaker 1: That's another thing. Before I send the song out, I've 908 00:42:23,800 --> 00:42:27,040 Speaker 1: I have quality controlled that song like nobody's business, because 909 00:42:27,200 --> 00:42:29,279 Speaker 1: you know, I'm listening and I'll tell the writer to 910 00:42:29,280 --> 00:42:30,920 Speaker 1: fix something. Anyway, I listened to the song over and 911 00:42:30,960 --> 00:42:32,879 Speaker 1: over my little on my computer, and I was like, oh, 912 00:42:32,920 --> 00:42:34,920 Speaker 1: this is it. What did you hear that that you 913 00:42:35,000 --> 00:42:37,000 Speaker 1: thought it was? I mean, the beat was the same beat. 914 00:42:37,200 --> 00:42:39,160 Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying, It's the same beat, and 915 00:42:39,320 --> 00:42:42,560 Speaker 1: that hook it just was It was so jay Z. 916 00:42:42,680 --> 00:42:44,800 Speaker 1: To me, it was so what those words were saying. 917 00:42:45,239 --> 00:42:47,320 Speaker 1: It was so jay Z. And I sent him an email. 918 00:42:47,880 --> 00:42:50,640 Speaker 1: I said email the song then, and I said, hey, 919 00:42:50,719 --> 00:42:53,520 Speaker 1: check this out. I think it could be big for you. 920 00:42:53,640 --> 00:42:59,719 Speaker 1: Disregard the verses and and He hit me back tim 921 00:42:59,719 --> 00:43:05,279 Speaker 1: minute later and he says, Yo, happy Father's Day. Dot 922 00:43:05,280 --> 00:43:08,400 Speaker 1: dot dot send it. Send that, sending a s a P. 923 00:43:09,480 --> 00:43:11,719 Speaker 1: So I'm looking at my BlackBerry at the time. I'm 924 00:43:11,719 --> 00:43:15,399 Speaker 1: looking at my black I'm like, I sent it already something. 925 00:43:15,440 --> 00:43:17,000 Speaker 1: He's looking at it on his phone. You know, I 926 00:43:17,000 --> 00:43:18,879 Speaker 1: sent him a song. He wants to hear it. I said, 927 00:43:18,880 --> 00:43:21,759 Speaker 1: I sent it already, was attached in the email. And 928 00:43:21,760 --> 00:43:24,160 Speaker 1: then I went to the gym. And I came back 929 00:43:24,280 --> 00:43:26,640 Speaker 1: from the gym, and I got my you know, device 930 00:43:26,680 --> 00:43:29,040 Speaker 1: out of the safe, and I'm looking. I get all 931 00:43:29,080 --> 00:43:33,360 Speaker 1: these emails from Jay. I'm like, I'm like, why is 932 00:43:33,360 --> 00:43:35,239 Speaker 1: he emailing me so much? Because once I sent it, 933 00:43:35,239 --> 00:43:36,800 Speaker 1: I'm moving on to the next thing, Like, why is 934 00:43:36,880 --> 00:43:39,600 Speaker 1: j emailing me so much? And I send that he says, no, 935 00:43:40,440 --> 00:43:43,040 Speaker 1: send the pro tools. I'm cutting it tomorrow. I'm like 936 00:43:43,600 --> 00:43:45,879 Speaker 1: to what. I'm like, Oh, he's talking about the song. 937 00:43:47,000 --> 00:43:50,000 Speaker 1: I started flipping out my hotel room. And then uh 938 00:43:50,320 --> 00:43:53,080 Speaker 1: he sent me another email in that serious emails and 939 00:43:53,080 --> 00:43:55,440 Speaker 1: he says, um, do you have any idea what you 940 00:43:55,560 --> 00:43:58,880 Speaker 1: just did by sending me this song? And you know 941 00:43:59,080 --> 00:44:01,719 Speaker 1: that night I go to the show. Be sure with 942 00:44:01,800 --> 00:44:04,480 Speaker 1: the garden and me and me and me and Hope 943 00:44:04,480 --> 00:44:06,360 Speaker 1: was in the dressing room and he said, yo, you 944 00:44:06,400 --> 00:44:08,640 Speaker 1: sent me one day and he said, he said, he 945 00:44:08,640 --> 00:44:12,600 Speaker 1: wrote it already. I said, how do you write it already? 946 00:44:12,640 --> 00:44:14,840 Speaker 1: It's like lyrics on the song like he said, no, no, 947 00:44:14,920 --> 00:44:18,400 Speaker 1: I wrote it already. I said, how like his verses 948 00:44:19,360 --> 00:44:21,120 Speaker 1: And he said, nat the end, at the end, it's 949 00:44:21,160 --> 00:44:22,960 Speaker 1: just a couple of seconds of music. And he just 950 00:44:23,040 --> 00:44:26,319 Speaker 1: kept rewinding that little couple of seconds and wrote the 951 00:44:26,360 --> 00:44:29,160 Speaker 1: whole song right then. And that night was the night 952 00:44:29,200 --> 00:44:30,759 Speaker 1: we came up with putting a lesha on the song, 953 00:44:30,880 --> 00:44:33,680 Speaker 1: right there in the dressing room. Two days later, he 954 00:44:33,800 --> 00:44:37,160 Speaker 1: hits Alicia um or her manager or whoever, because I 955 00:44:37,200 --> 00:44:39,680 Speaker 1: know her manager left the student and called me about it. 956 00:44:40,120 --> 00:44:42,160 Speaker 1: He's like, what's up with this song? I'm like, what song? 957 00:44:42,440 --> 00:44:45,160 Speaker 1: He's like, I just left your man j he got 958 00:44:45,200 --> 00:44:47,200 Speaker 1: the song she wanted. I said, oh, that song. I said, yeah, 959 00:44:47,239 --> 00:44:50,759 Speaker 1: she should do that, and uh, she should do that, 960 00:44:50,960 --> 00:44:53,560 Speaker 1: and you know, she did the song and it became 961 00:44:53,880 --> 00:44:55,799 Speaker 1: it became a monster. What what did it mean for 962 00:44:55,800 --> 00:44:59,480 Speaker 1: you to induct him to the Hall of Fame? I 963 00:44:59,480 --> 00:45:02,000 Speaker 1: mean everything, because that was not what it was supposed 964 00:45:02,040 --> 00:45:05,960 Speaker 1: to be. You know, I you know, I'm on the 965 00:45:05,960 --> 00:45:08,239 Speaker 1: board of song writ It's Hall of Fame, um. And 966 00:45:08,280 --> 00:45:10,880 Speaker 1: so what I've been able to do being on the 967 00:45:10,920 --> 00:45:15,440 Speaker 1: board is is walk them into our culture. You know, 968 00:45:15,560 --> 00:45:18,440 Speaker 1: there had never been a rapper um inducted into the 969 00:45:18,440 --> 00:45:20,839 Speaker 1: Songwriter's Hall of Fame. And and it took a few 970 00:45:21,080 --> 00:45:24,080 Speaker 1: rounds of discussions, um, you know, a year or two 971 00:45:24,480 --> 00:45:28,000 Speaker 1: and and to explain it to them that you know, 972 00:45:28,360 --> 00:45:31,759 Speaker 1: rappers and songwriters. You know, the hip hop producers are songwriters. 973 00:45:32,480 --> 00:45:35,680 Speaker 1: And Jay made it to the ballot. Now you know, 974 00:45:36,280 --> 00:45:39,080 Speaker 1: we can fight and clicking straw to h call to 975 00:45:39,080 --> 00:45:41,439 Speaker 1: get you on the ballot, but the voters vote you in. 976 00:45:41,960 --> 00:45:45,160 Speaker 1: So he got on the ballot ballot, but the voters 977 00:45:45,239 --> 00:45:48,600 Speaker 1: voted him in. And that was a very rewarding moment, 978 00:45:48,719 --> 00:45:50,880 Speaker 1: you know, because you know, he is one of the 979 00:45:50,920 --> 00:45:53,880 Speaker 1: greatest songwriters of all time. And then, um, a couple 980 00:45:53,880 --> 00:45:56,719 Speaker 1: of days before the ceremony and that we knew it 981 00:45:56,760 --> 00:45:58,840 Speaker 1: was close because of the baby's everything, but he was 982 00:45:58,880 --> 00:46:02,879 Speaker 1: still coming and yeah, yeah, he hit me and said 983 00:46:02,920 --> 00:46:05,640 Speaker 1: I'm not gonna be able to make it. And so 984 00:46:05,680 --> 00:46:09,640 Speaker 1: I said to him, okay, uh, let me figure this 985 00:46:09,680 --> 00:46:12,880 Speaker 1: out because it was a big deal. And I hit 986 00:46:12,960 --> 00:46:15,040 Speaker 1: him back, I said, you know what, we could push it. 987 00:46:15,480 --> 00:46:17,319 Speaker 1: We could push it to the following year. And he 988 00:46:17,400 --> 00:46:21,319 Speaker 1: hit back, No, I'm going in now. Yeah, he said, 989 00:46:21,320 --> 00:46:24,520 Speaker 1: I'm going in now. Yeah. He said, I'm going in now. 990 00:46:24,880 --> 00:46:28,520 Speaker 1: He said, you accepted. He said, you accepted. He goes, 991 00:46:28,640 --> 00:46:31,440 Speaker 1: You've worked just as hard as this as I have. 992 00:46:32,000 --> 00:46:35,200 Speaker 1: And it really touched me when he said that. Um, 993 00:46:35,239 --> 00:46:36,879 Speaker 1: you know, I actually started crying when he said when 994 00:46:36,880 --> 00:46:38,239 Speaker 1: he when I got that text, it was like an 995 00:46:38,239 --> 00:46:42,239 Speaker 1: emotion I had hadn't felt. And and you know, in 996 00:46:42,280 --> 00:46:45,880 Speaker 1: two days, I had to pull together the responsibility, Yeah, 997 00:46:46,000 --> 00:46:48,799 Speaker 1: responsibility of it in the speech. I you know, did 998 00:46:48,840 --> 00:46:51,279 Speaker 1: that whole speech and but it was rewarding. It was 999 00:46:51,360 --> 00:46:53,440 Speaker 1: it meant everything to me. It meant everything to me 1000 00:46:53,480 --> 00:46:55,799 Speaker 1: to share that with him and his family. Yeah, what 1001 00:46:55,840 --> 00:46:57,160 Speaker 1: do you think of that? Like the whole idea, Like 1002 00:46:57,200 --> 00:46:59,400 Speaker 1: I think you have said this piece that the stigma 1003 00:46:59,440 --> 00:47:02,439 Speaker 1: of you guys are not songwriters, You're not quite there yet, 1004 00:47:02,520 --> 00:47:05,480 Speaker 1: Like there's such like you. We come from loving hip 1005 00:47:05,520 --> 00:47:07,600 Speaker 1: hop and we respect the MC, but it seems like 1006 00:47:07,800 --> 00:47:09,600 Speaker 1: we always have to fight for people to view that 1007 00:47:09,680 --> 00:47:12,279 Speaker 1: all works of art. Is real poetry, it's real, it's 1008 00:47:12,320 --> 00:47:14,759 Speaker 1: real music. Yeah, it is real music. And I think 1009 00:47:14,800 --> 00:47:19,040 Speaker 1: that you know, you have these, you know, generations of 1010 00:47:19,120 --> 00:47:21,320 Speaker 1: what we call purist or you know someone call the 1011 00:47:21,440 --> 00:47:23,640 Speaker 1: music snobs or whatever you wanna call it, right, um, 1012 00:47:23,680 --> 00:47:25,399 Speaker 1: and we and we have that ourselves with hip hop, 1013 00:47:25,480 --> 00:47:27,920 Speaker 1: right with music snobs, where generations of hip hop. Right, 1014 00:47:27,960 --> 00:47:33,000 Speaker 1: it just happens. But I think that you know, I 1015 00:47:33,000 --> 00:47:35,080 Speaker 1: don't know why it is. I know it's not fair. 1016 00:47:35,400 --> 00:47:38,879 Speaker 1: I know it's not right. Um, because we watch these 1017 00:47:38,880 --> 00:47:41,880 Speaker 1: people write songs. I think people view it because of 1018 00:47:41,880 --> 00:47:45,319 Speaker 1: when because people sample, right, I think they view that 1019 00:47:45,360 --> 00:47:49,920 Speaker 1: it's not songwriting. And I do view with his songwriting. Uh, 1020 00:47:50,040 --> 00:47:52,200 Speaker 1: if you would beat out write a song together, you 1021 00:47:52,200 --> 00:47:55,200 Speaker 1: guys did what we call the co write, right, So 1022 00:47:55,400 --> 00:47:57,680 Speaker 1: I view sampling it's the same way, right I view 1023 00:47:57,960 --> 00:48:00,000 Speaker 1: if a producer sample something they just wrote a song 1024 00:48:00,600 --> 00:48:03,400 Speaker 1: with whoever they sample the other person just wrote their 1025 00:48:03,400 --> 00:48:08,799 Speaker 1: part thirty years ago, yeah, it's it's a co write 1026 00:48:08,920 --> 00:48:11,560 Speaker 1: and so and that's one part of it. And but 1027 00:48:12,040 --> 00:48:17,320 Speaker 1: the beauty of sampling is that I've seen people literally 1028 00:48:17,520 --> 00:48:21,160 Speaker 1: cry when they get the royalty checks. Like it's people 1029 00:48:21,200 --> 00:48:23,920 Speaker 1: who were like about to lose their houses and whatever, 1030 00:48:24,000 --> 00:48:25,880 Speaker 1: and someone will sample a song and then the royalties 1031 00:48:25,880 --> 00:48:27,200 Speaker 1: coming in and they're getting the royalty check for four 1032 00:48:27,239 --> 00:48:29,960 Speaker 1: hundred thousand dollars and they literally cry because there'll be 1033 00:48:30,000 --> 00:48:32,000 Speaker 1: a lot of great soul musicians the way. That's the 1034 00:48:32,000 --> 00:48:34,120 Speaker 1: first check, because then it's checks and checks and checks 1035 00:48:34,120 --> 00:48:38,240 Speaker 1: and checks after that. And so, you know, sampling changes lives, 1036 00:48:38,320 --> 00:48:41,759 Speaker 1: and it keeps music alive. It keeps some of these 1037 00:48:41,800 --> 00:48:44,000 Speaker 1: copyrights alive. And you know, yeah, we could talk about 1038 00:48:44,000 --> 00:48:45,759 Speaker 1: Earth when and fire song that was a very well 1039 00:48:45,760 --> 00:48:48,200 Speaker 1: known song that will sample, right, I knew that song. 1040 00:48:48,520 --> 00:48:50,680 Speaker 1: But then you have people like Premier and all these 1041 00:48:50,680 --> 00:48:53,120 Speaker 1: people who dig in the crates and they want to 1042 00:48:53,160 --> 00:48:56,440 Speaker 1: sample the stuff that isn't popular, that wasn't known, right, 1043 00:48:56,640 --> 00:48:58,879 Speaker 1: And and it's changing these people's lives. You know, when 1044 00:48:58,960 --> 00:49:03,319 Speaker 1: Rich Harrison sample um the Shylight song, it changed changed 1045 00:49:03,360 --> 00:49:06,080 Speaker 1: the guy's life with with for crazy and love, you 1046 00:49:06,080 --> 00:49:08,040 Speaker 1: know what I mean, Like it's still checks coming to 1047 00:49:08,080 --> 00:49:10,360 Speaker 1: this day for that, Like I changed someone's life. What 1048 00:49:10,440 --> 00:49:12,759 Speaker 1: are some of the most like I guess valuable uh 1049 00:49:12,920 --> 00:49:15,799 Speaker 1: songwriters or songs that have come across your desk. We 1050 00:49:15,840 --> 00:49:21,000 Speaker 1: were debating that. Um Rich Harrison who wrote Crazy in Love, 1051 00:49:21,120 --> 00:49:27,040 Speaker 1: Marquez World, Waterfalls, Um, you know all of j stuff, 1052 00:49:27,080 --> 00:49:29,160 Speaker 1: all of these stuff, you know what I mean, Usher, 1053 00:49:29,239 --> 00:49:33,520 Speaker 1: Jermaine uh I worked with Mario Winners. He he wrote. 1054 00:49:33,520 --> 00:49:37,080 Speaker 1: He gave me a CD of songs, just demos, and 1055 00:49:37,160 --> 00:49:39,400 Speaker 1: like the number thirteen song on the chart was a 1056 00:49:39,400 --> 00:49:42,480 Speaker 1: song called can Be Friends, which gave the Trade songs. 1057 00:49:42,760 --> 00:49:44,680 Speaker 1: I sent that to Mike Karen on a Sunday. You know, 1058 00:49:44,840 --> 00:49:47,520 Speaker 1: it doesn't it doesn't. And he hit me back literally 1059 00:49:47,520 --> 00:49:49,279 Speaker 1: on the Sunday. It's like, yeah, this is really good. 1060 00:49:49,280 --> 00:49:52,959 Speaker 1: I'm gonna get it straight to Tray and and Tray 1061 00:49:53,040 --> 00:49:55,799 Speaker 1: recorded the song and it became a monster, you know. 1062 00:49:55,840 --> 00:49:57,480 Speaker 1: But it's a team it's a team effort, you know, 1063 00:49:57,560 --> 00:49:59,440 Speaker 1: because the condition I sent that song and it was 1064 00:49:59,480 --> 00:50:01,640 Speaker 1: just two verse this again, two verses in the hooks. 1065 00:50:02,520 --> 00:50:06,680 Speaker 1: And Trey recorded the song as it was, and Craig 1066 00:50:06,719 --> 00:50:08,960 Speaker 1: Calman told him it needs to be a bridge on 1067 00:50:09,000 --> 00:50:13,360 Speaker 1: the song, and he made Trade write a bridge to 1068 00:50:13,400 --> 00:50:15,200 Speaker 1: the song. And the bridge is like one of the 1069 00:50:15,239 --> 00:50:16,799 Speaker 1: best parts of the song, you know, it brought it 1070 00:50:16,840 --> 00:50:19,000 Speaker 1: all together, Like you know, that's the other part too. 1071 00:50:19,000 --> 00:50:20,759 Speaker 1: You you have to I've been blessed to work with 1072 00:50:20,800 --> 00:50:24,160 Speaker 1: people who who either have vision or trust my vision 1073 00:50:25,040 --> 00:50:29,640 Speaker 1: because every song that I pitched it's not it's not 1074 00:50:29,800 --> 00:50:32,240 Speaker 1: in the condition where it's ready to be like that record. 1075 00:50:32,360 --> 00:50:34,640 Speaker 1: You know, it's like the idea of what it could 1076 00:50:34,680 --> 00:50:37,520 Speaker 1: be and can we pull it all together? Like you know, 1077 00:50:37,960 --> 00:50:39,480 Speaker 1: you talk about the empire state of mind. It was 1078 00:50:39,520 --> 00:50:43,759 Speaker 1: a demo like like j did his versus which was ridiculous. Right, 1079 00:50:43,920 --> 00:50:46,919 Speaker 1: Alicia did her part, but that bridge wasn't on the song. 1080 00:50:47,200 --> 00:50:50,080 Speaker 1: Alicia's part throw your hands in the air, all that, 1081 00:50:51,520 --> 00:50:52,880 Speaker 1: none of that was on the song. None of that 1082 00:50:52,920 --> 00:50:54,560 Speaker 1: was on the demos, like she added all of that 1083 00:50:54,880 --> 00:50:57,759 Speaker 1: big part of the song. Right, So you know, it's 1084 00:50:57,760 --> 00:51:00,920 Speaker 1: about having the vision of you know, drunken love. Same 1085 00:51:00,960 --> 00:51:04,680 Speaker 1: thing that was that that's that's that's the Queen at 1086 00:51:04,680 --> 00:51:07,080 Speaker 1: her ultimate genius. To me, like if you heard the 1087 00:51:07,080 --> 00:51:10,680 Speaker 1: condition of that song she received, but it was moments 1088 00:51:10,719 --> 00:51:13,680 Speaker 1: of greatness in it and and she connected with it 1089 00:51:13,719 --> 00:51:16,080 Speaker 1: and she finished, I'm talking about this night and day. 1090 00:51:16,480 --> 00:51:18,520 Speaker 1: It's night and day. When I said I was sending 1091 00:51:18,520 --> 00:51:20,200 Speaker 1: that song, the ten other artists and ten other artists 1092 00:51:20,200 --> 00:51:22,200 Speaker 1: would be like, don't ever send me another song, you 1093 00:51:22,280 --> 00:51:24,200 Speaker 1: know what I mean? Another that's like even so in 1094 00:51:24,200 --> 00:51:26,040 Speaker 1: the modern day, was the record like Ape Ship where 1095 00:51:26,160 --> 00:51:28,000 Speaker 1: that comes out of Farrell and Bigos and it ends 1096 00:51:28,040 --> 00:51:30,120 Speaker 1: up being with the carters, Like can you talk about 1097 00:51:30,120 --> 00:51:32,120 Speaker 1: the journey of a record like that? I mean, I 1098 00:51:32,200 --> 00:51:34,359 Speaker 1: didn't work on that record, but it's like, you know, 1099 00:51:35,000 --> 00:51:38,279 Speaker 1: you really want you know, the magic of a special artist. 1100 00:51:38,400 --> 00:51:41,000 Speaker 1: They get a demo of a song and turned it 1101 00:51:41,040 --> 00:51:43,720 Speaker 1: into their own song, you know, and that's what happened 1102 00:51:43,719 --> 00:51:45,560 Speaker 1: at that song, Like at a certain point, you don't 1103 00:51:45,600 --> 00:51:48,520 Speaker 1: hear that, you hear if the artists turned it into 1104 00:51:48,560 --> 00:51:50,839 Speaker 1: their own song. Like one of my biggest frustrations if 1105 00:51:50,840 --> 00:51:52,200 Speaker 1: you give a song to an artists they sing it 1106 00:51:52,200 --> 00:51:55,600 Speaker 1: exactly like the demo, same exactly like the demo. So 1107 00:51:55,760 --> 00:51:57,279 Speaker 1: you know, if it happens at times and sometimes it's 1108 00:51:57,280 --> 00:52:01,319 Speaker 1: still a hit. But you know, great artists they you know, 1109 00:52:01,320 --> 00:52:03,400 Speaker 1: and you have to teach songwriters that as well, because 1110 00:52:03,719 --> 00:52:06,640 Speaker 1: sometimes songwriters will write a song and they write it 1111 00:52:06,680 --> 00:52:09,400 Speaker 1: as if they're the artist, right, so they sing it 1112 00:52:09,520 --> 00:52:12,239 Speaker 1: like it's their song. And I teach younger songwriter that no, 1113 00:52:12,239 --> 00:52:14,560 Speaker 1: no, no no, no, no no, that's that's not gonna word 1114 00:52:14,600 --> 00:52:17,239 Speaker 1: that way. You gotta sing this song regular, it's not 1115 00:52:17,360 --> 00:52:20,040 Speaker 1: your song, and you have to leave room for the 1116 00:52:20,160 --> 00:52:22,399 Speaker 1: artist to own the song because a lot of times, 1117 00:52:22,480 --> 00:52:25,080 Speaker 1: let's say it's a girl or a guy who could 1118 00:52:25,120 --> 00:52:27,799 Speaker 1: really sing, and you send that song to the artist 1119 00:52:27,880 --> 00:52:30,560 Speaker 1: as is, sometimes the artist is like, I don't want 1120 00:52:30,560 --> 00:52:32,000 Speaker 1: to do it. It's not they don't like the song. 1121 00:52:32,080 --> 00:52:34,279 Speaker 1: They don't see their way into the song. You've got 1122 00:52:34,280 --> 00:52:35,960 Speaker 1: to leave them a path to get into the song, 1123 00:52:36,040 --> 00:52:38,680 Speaker 1: and they're like, well, that's that's their song. Another frustration 1124 00:52:38,680 --> 00:52:42,360 Speaker 1: I know you have is with the word urban. Yeah, yeah, 1125 00:52:42,680 --> 00:52:45,040 Speaker 1: I don't. I don't know the urban music Hi Direct 1126 00:52:45,040 --> 00:52:48,319 Speaker 1: companies used to brand things urban music departments are still doing, 1127 00:52:48,400 --> 00:52:51,359 Speaker 1: still do. But they say, you're very adamant then that 1128 00:52:51,360 --> 00:52:54,280 Speaker 1: you would love that to be eradicated in terms of yeah, 1129 00:52:54,360 --> 00:52:57,040 Speaker 1: because that's I don't know. You don't call it that, right, 1130 00:52:57,120 --> 00:53:00,600 Speaker 1: I don't. I mean, I think it's been. It's been. 1131 00:53:00,640 --> 00:53:04,080 Speaker 1: We've been conditioned to call it that, right, But I 1132 00:53:04,120 --> 00:53:06,719 Speaker 1: can tell you none of us came up with that term. 1133 00:53:06,840 --> 00:53:09,880 Speaker 1: And I don't. I don't. I don't know what that means. 1134 00:53:10,000 --> 00:53:12,239 Speaker 1: I don't know what urban means. I view it as 1135 00:53:12,280 --> 00:53:17,279 Speaker 1: a as a way to make it accessible to others. Right. 1136 00:53:17,640 --> 00:53:19,640 Speaker 1: But what people don't understand is that hip hop is 1137 00:53:19,640 --> 00:53:23,800 Speaker 1: the most inclusive genre in the world. We don't you know, 1138 00:53:23,920 --> 00:53:26,000 Speaker 1: we don't have to dumb it down by calling it urban. 1139 00:53:26,040 --> 00:53:29,399 Speaker 1: You know. I was just in Malaysia and a guy 1140 00:53:29,440 --> 00:53:31,040 Speaker 1: wanted me to meet an artist. He's like, we've been 1141 00:53:31,160 --> 00:53:33,200 Speaker 1: we really want to give us some of your songwriters, 1142 00:53:33,239 --> 00:53:36,080 Speaker 1: some some of your producers. And he says, you know, 1143 00:53:37,200 --> 00:53:40,680 Speaker 1: because black culture he called it. He said, the globalization 1144 00:53:40,719 --> 00:53:43,880 Speaker 1: of black culture is taking over. And I wanted to 1145 00:53:43,960 --> 00:53:47,439 Speaker 1: hug him. I wanted I wanted to hug him because 1146 00:53:47,440 --> 00:53:49,560 Speaker 1: he didn't say urban music, you know, he said the 1147 00:53:49,560 --> 00:53:52,600 Speaker 1: globalization of black culture. And this is an Asian guy, right, 1148 00:53:53,080 --> 00:53:56,640 Speaker 1: And I wanted to hug him because he wasn't afraid 1149 00:53:56,680 --> 00:53:59,440 Speaker 1: to say that, you know. And that's what this is. 1150 00:53:59,520 --> 00:54:02,080 Speaker 1: And but but the thing that people have to remember, 1151 00:54:02,080 --> 00:54:05,560 Speaker 1: and I'll say it again, is that hip hop music 1152 00:54:06,280 --> 00:54:08,399 Speaker 1: the culture that I that I grew up in, that 1153 00:54:08,440 --> 00:54:12,240 Speaker 1: made me who I am. It's the most inclusive culture 1154 00:54:12,640 --> 00:54:18,239 Speaker 1: of any genre as a fact. So it's it's not 1155 00:54:18,360 --> 00:54:21,879 Speaker 1: about that. You can if it's called black music, whatever 1156 00:54:21,880 --> 00:54:25,759 Speaker 1: you wanna call it. Everyone can participate. Everyone can participate, 1157 00:54:25,920 --> 00:54:29,239 Speaker 1: is anyone if you missed out on, yeah, you really 1158 00:54:29,239 --> 00:54:30,840 Speaker 1: want to go there? Like I'm not gonna say the 1159 00:54:30,920 --> 00:54:35,120 Speaker 1: artist because this is a tap is yes, I missed 1160 00:54:35,160 --> 00:54:38,360 Speaker 1: out on a very big artist. Um, a massive artist, 1161 00:54:38,360 --> 00:54:40,600 Speaker 1: I might add. And it wasn't that I was trying 1162 00:54:40,640 --> 00:54:42,560 Speaker 1: to sign the artist. Someone else was and they wanted 1163 00:54:42,600 --> 00:54:45,840 Speaker 1: my opinion on it. And you know, it's around the 1164 00:54:45,880 --> 00:54:48,560 Speaker 1: time to you know, volume too. It came out right, 1165 00:54:48,800 --> 00:54:53,239 Speaker 1: and I I started asking these questions like, well, how 1166 00:54:53,320 --> 00:54:55,439 Speaker 1: much is the deal and all these type of things, 1167 00:54:55,440 --> 00:54:57,000 Speaker 1: and in my mind are like what Jay didn't get that, 1168 00:54:57,120 --> 00:55:00,839 Speaker 1: Like I wouldn't pay that, and I just way too 1169 00:55:00,840 --> 00:55:04,040 Speaker 1: far down the rabbit hole, and and all the person 1170 00:55:04,080 --> 00:55:06,319 Speaker 1: wanted to know if I thought that music was good, right, 1171 00:55:06,400 --> 00:55:10,799 Speaker 1: and and so my energy influenced them to not do 1172 00:55:10,880 --> 00:55:16,680 Speaker 1: the deal and became a massive artist and um, you know, 1173 00:55:16,800 --> 00:55:18,960 Speaker 1: and I and it was it was said, you know, 1174 00:55:19,239 --> 00:55:21,799 Speaker 1: the urban legend became that I told him, don't do 1175 00:55:21,840 --> 00:55:24,399 Speaker 1: the deal, right, I didn't do the deal, and that's 1176 00:55:24,440 --> 00:55:27,279 Speaker 1: not what happened. But at the end of the day, 1177 00:55:27,360 --> 00:55:30,200 Speaker 1: I did own it because I just thought back, I 1178 00:55:30,200 --> 00:55:31,799 Speaker 1: said what did I do wrong? And I was like, 1179 00:55:31,800 --> 00:55:34,080 Speaker 1: you know what, I didn't just do what was asked 1180 00:55:34,080 --> 00:55:37,080 Speaker 1: of me. And and that's very important. It's like working 1181 00:55:37,120 --> 00:55:38,920 Speaker 1: with creative Like I said, it's very delicate, and I 1182 00:55:39,000 --> 00:55:41,799 Speaker 1: learned a very important lesson then. But then I signed 1183 00:55:41,840 --> 00:55:44,759 Speaker 1: Kanye West. I heard that was a hunt too, right, 1184 00:55:44,760 --> 00:55:47,840 Speaker 1: because you had competition. Another rival company had popped up 1185 00:55:47,840 --> 00:55:49,960 Speaker 1: at the last minute, and you had to really like 1186 00:55:50,040 --> 00:55:51,680 Speaker 1: to make that happen. Yeah, I mean I had been 1187 00:55:51,680 --> 00:55:54,640 Speaker 1: trying to sign Kanye for quite a while actually, and 1188 00:55:54,760 --> 00:55:56,759 Speaker 1: before you get that, remember from that hour, he was 1189 00:55:56,800 --> 00:55:58,759 Speaker 1: such a respected as the producer. What did you see 1190 00:55:58,760 --> 00:56:01,080 Speaker 1: in him as an artist to step in the forefront 1191 00:56:01,120 --> 00:56:02,759 Speaker 1: Because some people are like, oh, stick to produce, and 1192 00:56:02,840 --> 00:56:05,000 Speaker 1: most of us was like, oh, you're a great producer. 1193 00:56:05,080 --> 00:56:08,760 Speaker 1: We didn't necessarily see him as a artist at that time. Yeah. Well, well, 1194 00:56:08,800 --> 00:56:11,000 Speaker 1: I mean you asked me what I see finding songwriters? 1195 00:56:11,000 --> 00:56:12,880 Speaker 1: What makes one of song I said, passion? Right, I 1196 00:56:12,920 --> 00:56:15,759 Speaker 1: had a tiger. You'd be very hard pressed to find 1197 00:56:15,800 --> 00:56:19,200 Speaker 1: someone more passionate about music than Kanye West, very hard pressed. 1198 00:56:19,280 --> 00:56:23,720 Speaker 1: So he has that always always. You know, my first 1199 00:56:24,440 --> 00:56:27,160 Speaker 1: real meeting with Kanye, we were doing a conference in Chicago, 1200 00:56:27,320 --> 00:56:30,319 Speaker 1: one of those music conferences. Um, and so we were 1201 00:56:30,360 --> 00:56:32,719 Speaker 1: on this panel together, and so he gets to the 1202 00:56:32,880 --> 00:56:34,960 Speaker 1: end and they always ask the question where do you 1203 00:56:35,000 --> 00:56:37,839 Speaker 1: see yourself in five years? And you know, whatever, right, 1204 00:56:37,880 --> 00:56:39,640 Speaker 1: And I hate those questions, right, and so I give 1205 00:56:39,719 --> 00:56:42,399 Speaker 1: whatever little genetic answers. I'm never showing cards. And so 1206 00:56:43,400 --> 00:56:45,960 Speaker 1: he gets to Kanye at the end and he said, 1207 00:56:46,000 --> 00:56:47,600 Speaker 1: what do you see yourself in five years? And he's 1208 00:56:47,640 --> 00:56:50,560 Speaker 1: and I'm just relaxing. He says, you know, I guess 1209 00:56:50,960 --> 00:56:53,360 Speaker 1: I hope to get my weight up something. So somebody 1210 00:56:53,400 --> 00:56:59,040 Speaker 1: like Big John to sign me. And I remember, I said, 1211 00:56:59,120 --> 00:57:02,960 Speaker 1: you just played me? Did he just played me? I'm like, 1212 00:57:03,080 --> 00:57:06,759 Speaker 1: what's wrong with this guy? And so, you know, we 1213 00:57:06,760 --> 00:57:08,279 Speaker 1: we stayed in touch, or you know, a couple of 1214 00:57:08,320 --> 00:57:10,200 Speaker 1: years later we got more in touch. And his manager 1215 00:57:10,239 --> 00:57:12,680 Speaker 1: at the time was Gee Roberson, really good friend of mine, 1216 00:57:13,400 --> 00:57:16,080 Speaker 1: and so we never could get a deal done, you know, 1217 00:57:16,160 --> 00:57:18,080 Speaker 1: because he wanted what he wanted and at that time 1218 00:57:18,120 --> 00:57:21,000 Speaker 1: he was a producer and he did sample a lot, right, 1219 00:57:21,080 --> 00:57:25,400 Speaker 1: and so UM but G said, when we're ready to do, 1220 00:57:25,440 --> 00:57:28,400 Speaker 1: when we're gonna come to you. And so you know, 1221 00:57:28,440 --> 00:57:30,160 Speaker 1: at that at this time. I think Harold might have 1222 00:57:30,200 --> 00:57:32,640 Speaker 1: wrote the song with him in the studio and then 1223 00:57:32,640 --> 00:57:36,600 Speaker 1: he had the Ludicrous record out, the stand up record. Yeah, 1224 00:57:36,640 --> 00:57:38,600 Speaker 1: and so I said, there, things are really starting to 1225 00:57:38,600 --> 00:57:40,400 Speaker 1: come together for him, and so maybe we should do 1226 00:57:40,440 --> 00:57:43,440 Speaker 1: this deal. And I called g It was on the weekend, 1227 00:57:43,600 --> 00:57:46,400 Speaker 1: and he was like, oh man, big j M man, 1228 00:57:46,400 --> 00:57:48,200 Speaker 1: we about we did a deal already. I said, what 1229 00:57:48,240 --> 00:57:49,640 Speaker 1: do you mean you did a deal? Like you said 1230 00:57:49,680 --> 00:57:51,760 Speaker 1: we were gonna do it deal when it was a deal. 1231 00:57:52,560 --> 00:57:55,000 Speaker 1: And and so he said, actually, you know what the 1232 00:57:55,040 --> 00:57:57,880 Speaker 1: crazy part about it, real talk. We were in this 1233 00:57:58,080 --> 00:58:03,480 Speaker 1: exact studio, conversed, Yeah, that room right there. We were 1234 00:58:03,520 --> 00:58:05,000 Speaker 1: in this because I was walking down the halls like 1235 00:58:05,040 --> 00:58:07,800 Speaker 1: this the room and he had the conversation Aboutkaye and 1236 00:58:07,880 --> 00:58:12,240 Speaker 1: so so anyway we're talking and he says, yeah, I 1237 00:58:12,240 --> 00:58:15,120 Speaker 1: think he signed it on Friday. I said, what are 1238 00:58:15,120 --> 00:58:17,720 Speaker 1: you talk what's the deal? And so so he's like, 1239 00:58:17,760 --> 00:58:19,320 Speaker 1: I don't know all of what it is. So I 1240 00:58:19,400 --> 00:58:21,360 Speaker 1: knew who his lawyer was, and he's like, we'll call her, 1241 00:58:21,800 --> 00:58:23,760 Speaker 1: and you know it has been signing. Maybe we can 1242 00:58:23,800 --> 00:58:26,760 Speaker 1: figure something out. I'm like, heated a g right, So 1243 00:58:27,120 --> 00:58:29,840 Speaker 1: because it happened really fast, apparently, and so I'm hitting 1244 00:58:29,840 --> 00:58:31,960 Speaker 1: the lawyer, hitting the lawyer, and she finally hits me 1245 00:58:32,000 --> 00:58:36,520 Speaker 1: back Sunday night and she says, John, the deal is done. 1246 00:58:36,600 --> 00:58:39,160 Speaker 1: He hasn't signed it, but he's signing it tomorrow. Furthermore, 1247 00:58:39,200 --> 00:58:42,200 Speaker 1: I'm getting married next weekend and I'm not negotiating another deal. 1248 00:58:42,400 --> 00:58:45,600 Speaker 1: I'm not negotiating the whole other deal. I'm like, no, no, no, 1249 00:58:45,640 --> 00:58:47,680 Speaker 1: I could get it done. I can get it done. 1250 00:58:48,080 --> 00:58:50,280 Speaker 1: So the next morning she said, you can't get it done. 1251 00:58:50,280 --> 00:58:53,400 Speaker 1: The next morning, I wake up. I called Kanye and 1252 00:58:53,480 --> 00:58:56,280 Speaker 1: he sleeps, so I talked to him. He's like, what's up. 1253 00:58:56,320 --> 00:58:57,640 Speaker 1: I say, man, I heard you was doing a deal. 1254 00:58:57,680 --> 00:58:59,120 Speaker 1: I said, listen, you know we always wanted to do 1255 00:58:59,160 --> 00:59:01,919 Speaker 1: a deal. Me ask you something, all things being equal, 1256 00:59:01,960 --> 00:59:03,800 Speaker 1: you roll with me, right, He's like, yeah, I guess. 1257 00:59:03,960 --> 00:59:06,200 Speaker 1: I was like cool, Hunger the phone, I said, can 1258 00:59:06,280 --> 00:59:08,200 Speaker 1: you say? He comes with me? I called it. So 1259 00:59:08,480 --> 00:59:12,240 Speaker 1: she's heated. She's heated, and you know, I told my 1260 00:59:12,320 --> 00:59:14,040 Speaker 1: legal team to get on it, and I actually gave 1261 00:59:14,080 --> 00:59:15,640 Speaker 1: him a much better deal than the deal he had 1262 00:59:15,680 --> 00:59:17,959 Speaker 1: on the table um. Once I found out the terms, 1263 00:59:17,960 --> 00:59:19,360 Speaker 1: I was like, oh, I know how to do this deal, 1264 00:59:19,720 --> 00:59:22,640 Speaker 1: and I gave him a much more lucrative deal and 1265 00:59:22,680 --> 00:59:25,360 Speaker 1: literally got the deal done in twenty four hours. I 1266 00:59:25,560 --> 00:59:27,480 Speaker 1: got him signed and um and and it's been a 1267 00:59:27,520 --> 00:59:29,360 Speaker 1: great run, you know. And that's the beauty thing, because 1268 00:59:29,440 --> 00:59:31,320 Speaker 1: Kanye is a gene. He don't need no help with music, 1269 00:59:31,360 --> 00:59:33,959 Speaker 1: no help with anything. But one thing I will feel 1270 00:59:33,960 --> 00:59:36,720 Speaker 1: proud about, you know, because I was building this community. 1271 00:59:36,920 --> 00:59:38,160 Speaker 1: I didn't know it at the time, but I was 1272 00:59:38,160 --> 00:59:42,840 Speaker 1: building a community of songwriters and artists. And so you know, 1273 00:59:43,240 --> 00:59:45,680 Speaker 1: Kanye now he's he's an artist. Now he comes out 1274 00:59:45,720 --> 00:59:49,360 Speaker 1: college dropout. Is it's that record? Right, It's that album? 1275 00:59:49,480 --> 00:59:52,680 Speaker 1: And I get a call from g and he asked 1276 00:59:52,680 --> 00:59:54,880 Speaker 1: me can he can he um kind of doing my 1277 00:59:54,920 --> 00:59:57,040 Speaker 1: favorite I said, what's up? He says, we want to 1278 00:59:57,080 --> 01:00:00,160 Speaker 1: get on this usher tour. I was like, okay, well 1279 01:00:00,200 --> 01:00:01,600 Speaker 1: what's going on. He's like, yeah, we're trying to get 1280 01:00:01,600 --> 01:00:03,720 Speaker 1: on it, but we're not getting no traction. This is 1281 01:00:03,880 --> 01:00:06,040 Speaker 1: this Can you call call him because we know you're 1282 01:00:06,040 --> 01:00:08,800 Speaker 1: close with him, And like, sure, I call. So I 1283 01:00:08,840 --> 01:00:11,280 Speaker 1: called User's mom, who's managing him the time. I called 1284 01:00:11,360 --> 01:00:14,480 Speaker 1: JP and we're talking and I'm telling her, you know, 1285 01:00:14,960 --> 01:00:16,880 Speaker 1: I really would appreciate if you guys could take Kanye 1286 01:00:16,920 --> 01:00:18,520 Speaker 1: West out on the tour with you, and she was like, 1287 01:00:18,800 --> 01:00:21,400 Speaker 1: I don't know sitting this. I was like, Na, he's 1288 01:00:21,480 --> 01:00:23,880 Speaker 1: really good. Trust me, this guy is He's the one, 1289 01:00:24,680 --> 01:00:27,720 Speaker 1: and uh So I convinced her and she was like, okay, 1290 01:00:27,720 --> 01:00:30,160 Speaker 1: I'm cool with it. I'm like, okay, cool. Thanks. She's like, no, 1291 01:00:30,200 --> 01:00:33,240 Speaker 1: you gotta you gotta talk to us R now. I'm like, okay, 1292 01:00:33,600 --> 01:00:36,280 Speaker 1: so track us you down. He calls me that night 1293 01:00:37,200 --> 01:00:40,160 Speaker 1: and I'm telling him about Kanye. I said, really, Usher, 1294 01:00:40,200 --> 01:00:41,960 Speaker 1: I really need this. Can you take him out? Like 1295 01:00:41,960 --> 01:00:44,680 Speaker 1: I promise you won't be disappointed? And I remember him 1296 01:00:44,680 --> 01:00:47,040 Speaker 1: saying to me, is he really that good? John? And 1297 01:00:47,080 --> 01:00:49,960 Speaker 1: I was like, yeah, he is, trust me, and uh 1298 01:00:50,160 --> 01:00:52,360 Speaker 1: he said all right, man, I'll do it. And that 1299 01:00:52,360 --> 01:00:54,080 Speaker 1: that was the first major tour Kanye went out on 1300 01:00:54,360 --> 01:00:57,520 Speaker 1: What's the Usher tour? Um and that I take a 1301 01:00:57,520 --> 01:00:59,120 Speaker 1: lot of pride in that. And I learned a lesson 1302 01:00:59,120 --> 01:01:01,400 Speaker 1: from that too, like when when your friends call you 1303 01:01:01,440 --> 01:01:03,880 Speaker 1: and you can help, you help, because that's what happened 1304 01:01:03,880 --> 01:01:06,200 Speaker 1: with us. Don't make another great produce you help was 1305 01:01:06,280 --> 01:01:08,800 Speaker 1: Pharrell Um in the beginning, Stay just like you talk 1306 01:01:08,840 --> 01:01:11,040 Speaker 1: about bad deals and stuff, and like you had to 1307 01:01:11,040 --> 01:01:12,880 Speaker 1: get him out of a situation to get him or 1308 01:01:13,040 --> 01:01:16,040 Speaker 1: basically educate him on what's going on with publishing. And 1309 01:01:16,400 --> 01:01:18,360 Speaker 1: for Real is like you know, for Rell is he's 1310 01:01:18,400 --> 01:01:20,000 Speaker 1: a dreamer. You know what I'm saying, and that I 1311 01:01:20,080 --> 01:01:24,000 Speaker 1: am as well. But but like you know, he's so ambitious. 1312 01:01:24,000 --> 01:01:26,400 Speaker 1: It's like, you know, it's just about and this is 1313 01:01:26,400 --> 01:01:29,520 Speaker 1: what not this is. It is not exclusive to Pharrell, 1314 01:01:29,600 --> 01:01:32,480 Speaker 1: it's with any artist. Is like you wanna if they're 1315 01:01:32,520 --> 01:01:33,920 Speaker 1: going to do something, you want to help them do 1316 01:01:33,960 --> 01:01:37,080 Speaker 1: it the right way if you can help. And that's 1317 01:01:37,080 --> 01:01:39,120 Speaker 1: really what it is with for Real, Like, that's my brother, 1318 01:01:39,240 --> 01:01:41,840 Speaker 1: and we talk a lot about things. He did do 1319 01:01:41,920 --> 01:01:45,320 Speaker 1: one particular situation that I begged him not to do 1320 01:01:46,080 --> 01:01:50,120 Speaker 1: and he did it. Um, he regretted it, but as 1321 01:01:50,120 --> 01:01:52,560 Speaker 1: I say, all things have an exploration day and we 1322 01:01:52,600 --> 01:01:54,960 Speaker 1: was able to come around and fix it, help him 1323 01:01:54,960 --> 01:01:57,080 Speaker 1: fix it, and he's sitting in a very good place. Now. 1324 01:01:57,160 --> 01:01:58,960 Speaker 1: What's it like working with him and then also seeing 1325 01:01:59,040 --> 01:02:01,440 Speaker 1: him like develop out, you know, being a part of 1326 01:02:01,440 --> 01:02:04,960 Speaker 1: the Superstar Producer duo and then having his own Yeah, 1327 01:02:05,000 --> 01:02:07,440 Speaker 1: I mean, for Real is he's just a songwriter, songwriter. 1328 01:02:07,800 --> 01:02:12,040 Speaker 1: You know, he um, the guy worked so hard. You know, 1329 01:02:12,080 --> 01:02:14,520 Speaker 1: whether it's for real, whether it's Rodney Jerkins, whether it's Jermaine, 1330 01:02:14,840 --> 01:02:16,960 Speaker 1: whether it's all these people, you know, even Dr dre 1331 01:02:17,200 --> 01:02:20,120 Speaker 1: Right and I and I always say to people, it's 1332 01:02:20,160 --> 01:02:23,160 Speaker 1: no accident of who's at the top. It's just no 1333 01:02:23,280 --> 01:02:26,080 Speaker 1: accident because all of these people that we've talked about 1334 01:02:26,080 --> 01:02:31,400 Speaker 1: a lot of artists today, icons all do different things, right, 1335 01:02:32,480 --> 01:02:34,560 Speaker 1: And I've been able to see from my own two 1336 01:02:34,560 --> 01:02:36,760 Speaker 1: eyes there's one thing that they all do the same. 1337 01:02:37,760 --> 01:02:41,960 Speaker 1: They all outwork everybody else. They all outwork everybody else. 1338 01:02:42,000 --> 01:02:44,840 Speaker 1: And for real, in his heyday, he worked every day. 1339 01:02:45,160 --> 01:02:47,880 Speaker 1: In his days he wasn't so hot, he worked every day. 1340 01:02:48,160 --> 01:02:51,160 Speaker 1: He never takes a day off. The guy just he 1341 01:02:51,360 --> 01:02:53,920 Speaker 1: just it's in his system. It's in the system. So 1342 01:02:53,960 --> 01:02:56,960 Speaker 1: when he got when it came back around, it was 1343 01:02:56,960 --> 01:03:01,680 Speaker 1: nothing for him. He never stopped. Yeah, you ain't stopping either. 1344 01:03:01,720 --> 01:03:05,080 Speaker 1: But I mean I remember reading that you Brandy in 1345 01:03:05,240 --> 01:03:07,680 Speaker 1: our Brandy's Full Moon album while he was still like 1346 01:03:07,760 --> 01:03:10,120 Speaker 1: the chairman of a publishing couple. I wish I was 1347 01:03:10,200 --> 01:03:15,480 Speaker 1: chairing back there. Yeah, but that didn't take a little 1348 01:03:15,520 --> 01:03:19,920 Speaker 1: long for me. To get there. But best album? Were 1349 01:03:19,960 --> 01:03:23,200 Speaker 1: you still a r An album today? Yeah? I do, 1350 01:03:23,560 --> 01:03:25,480 Speaker 1: but it's just it's behind the scenes. I don't have 1351 01:03:25,520 --> 01:03:27,000 Speaker 1: to put my name on it. You know what I'm saying. 1352 01:03:27,040 --> 01:03:28,600 Speaker 1: I don't have to put my name on it. It's just, 1353 01:03:28,720 --> 01:03:31,200 Speaker 1: you know, your fingerprints on it. I don't know, it's 1354 01:03:31,200 --> 01:03:33,600 Speaker 1: the artist fingerprints on it. I just do my part. 1355 01:03:33,680 --> 01:03:37,360 Speaker 1: But you know, I m that was a fun experience, 1356 01:03:37,400 --> 01:03:42,000 Speaker 1: you know. And it's funny because that was an album that, uh, 1357 01:03:42,040 --> 01:03:44,000 Speaker 1: I didn't realize for a very long time that it 1358 01:03:44,040 --> 01:03:49,440 Speaker 1: was as successful and culturally impactful as it was. Um, 1359 01:03:49,480 --> 01:03:52,560 Speaker 1: because we we put a lot of work into that album, 1360 01:03:52,720 --> 01:03:56,760 Speaker 1: and then we shot the video for the first single. 1361 01:03:57,800 --> 01:03:59,840 Speaker 1: You know, I think the song what About Us was 1362 01:04:00,040 --> 01:04:04,240 Speaker 1: written the day before the Twin Towers came down. We 1363 01:04:04,240 --> 01:04:09,640 Speaker 1: were in New York, UM, and I remember Rodney leaving 1364 01:04:09,680 --> 01:04:12,480 Speaker 1: to go to this Michael Jackson show at the Guarden. 1365 01:04:12,520 --> 01:04:14,120 Speaker 1: He had these two shows at the Garden, if I'm 1366 01:04:14,160 --> 01:04:17,720 Speaker 1: not mistaken, but it was it was festive, right, and 1367 01:04:17,720 --> 01:04:19,320 Speaker 1: I think that was the day wrote what about Us 1368 01:04:19,360 --> 01:04:22,960 Speaker 1: was written? And uh, the next morning the Twin Towers 1369 01:04:23,000 --> 01:04:26,920 Speaker 1: came down. But so she shot the video for what 1370 01:04:27,000 --> 01:04:30,080 Speaker 1: about us? And if the record is going I remember 1371 01:04:30,080 --> 01:04:32,080 Speaker 1: Craig Calvin calling me like, Yo, you did it, thank 1372 01:04:32,120 --> 01:04:33,960 Speaker 1: you for all your work. The record is taking off, 1373 01:04:34,680 --> 01:04:38,720 Speaker 1: and there's this conference call with Brandy. I'm like, okay, 1374 01:04:38,720 --> 01:04:40,800 Speaker 1: So we do the conference call. She gets on the call, 1375 01:04:40,840 --> 01:04:42,560 Speaker 1: She's like, hey, guys, how are you doing? And and 1376 01:04:42,720 --> 01:04:44,920 Speaker 1: Craig has given her all the info on the album, this, this, 1377 01:04:45,000 --> 01:04:48,840 Speaker 1: and this, and she told her she was pregnant and 1378 01:04:48,880 --> 01:04:51,439 Speaker 1: I was like, WHOA, Like I had never been through 1379 01:04:51,480 --> 01:04:53,160 Speaker 1: that before, you know what I mean, never been through that, 1380 01:04:53,280 --> 01:04:59,040 Speaker 1: never experienced it. And and you know, so she shot 1381 01:04:59,080 --> 01:05:01,920 Speaker 1: Full Moon the them I mean the video pregnant, right, 1382 01:05:02,600 --> 01:05:06,240 Speaker 1: and uh, but she didn't get to promote the album. Yeah, 1383 01:05:06,240 --> 01:05:09,160 Speaker 1: she didn't like she would have, right, And so I 1384 01:05:09,240 --> 01:05:10,640 Speaker 1: just kind of moved on from it because I just 1385 01:05:10,640 --> 01:05:14,240 Speaker 1: thought it just I just thought we missed. And then 1386 01:05:14,240 --> 01:05:16,560 Speaker 1: now you see how people have. Yeah, what happened was 1387 01:05:16,560 --> 01:05:18,560 Speaker 1: a couple of years later I started bumping into people 1388 01:05:18,560 --> 01:05:20,080 Speaker 1: and they were like, yo, you did Full Moon. I 1389 01:05:20,120 --> 01:05:23,240 Speaker 1: was like, I'm like yeah, And so I called Randy 1390 01:05:23,320 --> 01:05:27,360 Speaker 1: Jerkins and I said, right, you know the craziest thing 1391 01:05:27,400 --> 01:05:29,480 Speaker 1: happens to me. I said, people come up to me 1392 01:05:29,880 --> 01:05:31,880 Speaker 1: and they just go crazy about the full Moon. Now 1393 01:05:31,960 --> 01:05:35,960 Speaker 1: he said, you too, and so so we started talking 1394 01:05:36,160 --> 01:05:38,800 Speaker 1: and I said, right like, we did a classic and 1395 01:05:38,840 --> 01:05:40,840 Speaker 1: we didn't even know it. We didn't even know it 1396 01:05:40,880 --> 01:05:44,720 Speaker 1: because you know, it was successful. It was successful, but 1397 01:05:44,760 --> 01:05:46,480 Speaker 1: not nearly as successful it would have been if she 1398 01:05:46,600 --> 01:05:48,520 Speaker 1: was able to be you know, go go and do 1399 01:05:48,560 --> 01:05:50,360 Speaker 1: her thing. But listen, something better came into her life. 1400 01:05:50,360 --> 01:05:54,120 Speaker 1: So it's all good. But but it was that moment 1401 01:05:54,160 --> 01:05:57,160 Speaker 1: of like, you know, and people people like they say 1402 01:05:57,200 --> 01:05:59,960 Speaker 1: what you say that, Like Chauncey Bills to this day 1403 01:06:00,240 --> 01:06:03,720 Speaker 1: tells me full Moon is like one of his favorite albums. Yeah, brother, 1404 01:06:04,160 --> 01:06:06,880 Speaker 1: he says, full Moon is one of his favorite albums. 1405 01:06:07,440 --> 01:06:09,000 Speaker 1: And I didn't know what. We didn't know it at 1406 01:06:09,000 --> 01:06:11,200 Speaker 1: the time. J told me that your audio file, I 1407 01:06:11,240 --> 01:06:16,080 Speaker 1: don't even know what that means. Yeah, my system is 1408 01:06:16,280 --> 01:06:20,959 Speaker 1: nuts wi Wilson speakers and stuffing. Yeah yeah Wilson, Oh wow, 1409 01:06:21,040 --> 01:06:23,680 Speaker 1: yeah Wilson audio speakers, Like I got a I got 1410 01:06:23,720 --> 01:06:29,040 Speaker 1: the best sound system in the music by far is 1411 01:06:29,040 --> 01:06:30,520 Speaker 1: to be getting on mad. They'd be hearing it through 1412 01:06:30,560 --> 01:06:33,560 Speaker 1: his speakers. They'll be like, I got to change that. Yeah, 1413 01:06:33,600 --> 01:06:35,920 Speaker 1: I have the best audio system than anyone in the 1414 01:06:36,000 --> 01:06:39,240 Speaker 1: music business by far by It's not even close, I 1415 01:06:39,280 --> 01:06:41,360 Speaker 1: promise you. And I haven't even seen everyone's office, but 1416 01:06:41,400 --> 01:06:44,200 Speaker 1: I know they haven't put what they when I put, uh, 1417 01:06:44,720 --> 01:06:47,919 Speaker 1: when I put into my sister mix. Yeah, and listen 1418 01:06:47,960 --> 01:06:49,840 Speaker 1: to music is the music? Like you know what I'm saying, 1419 01:06:49,880 --> 01:06:52,120 Speaker 1: Like you know, like I always tell people that I 1420 01:06:52,120 --> 01:06:53,440 Speaker 1: can't wait to hear it. I said, listen, if it 1421 01:06:53,480 --> 01:06:55,440 Speaker 1: sounds bad, it's gonna sound bad coming out of these speakers. 1422 01:06:55,480 --> 01:06:59,520 Speaker 1: Like it doesn't. It doesn't. My system is very neutral. 1423 01:06:59,520 --> 01:07:02,560 Speaker 1: It doesn't at anything right. It just plays what's there. 1424 01:07:02,640 --> 01:07:04,760 Speaker 1: So if it's a bad mix, is gonna sound like 1425 01:07:04,760 --> 01:07:07,360 Speaker 1: a bad mix. That makes one last note he allowed 1426 01:07:07,400 --> 01:07:09,280 Speaker 1: me to share this. He said, you necessarily love the 1427 01:07:09,280 --> 01:07:14,760 Speaker 1: apes Ship mix, for example, like you talk about like 1428 01:07:15,040 --> 01:07:25,040 Speaker 1: how important mixing is and how somebody loves sound like yourself. Stickler. Yeah, yeah, 1429 01:07:25,480 --> 01:07:28,800 Speaker 1: I um, I didn't it though I didn't great record, 1430 01:07:28,960 --> 01:07:30,640 Speaker 1: I just didn't. I didn't think the mix was great. 1431 01:07:30,720 --> 01:07:32,600 Speaker 1: I didn't think the mix was great at all. What 1432 01:07:32,680 --> 01:07:34,800 Speaker 1: makes it great? Mixing your outside of it. I mean 1433 01:07:34,840 --> 01:07:36,439 Speaker 1: it's like, I mean, a great mixes one I don't 1434 01:07:36,440 --> 01:07:37,840 Speaker 1: have to comment on, you know what I mean, like 1435 01:07:37,840 --> 01:07:40,080 Speaker 1: like it's just that's just it, Like it's not about 1436 01:07:40,440 --> 01:07:42,280 Speaker 1: it's not about like, oh this is now you do 1437 01:07:42,360 --> 01:07:44,200 Speaker 1: hear certain mixes were like, well that song is mixed 1438 01:07:44,240 --> 01:07:47,120 Speaker 1: really good, But it's not about that. My My my 1439 01:07:47,200 --> 01:07:49,800 Speaker 1: thing is the glasses always have full with me. So 1440 01:07:50,440 --> 01:07:52,400 Speaker 1: it is when something is half empty or not great, 1441 01:07:52,440 --> 01:07:56,000 Speaker 1: that's what I comment on. So it's not about what's 1442 01:07:56,000 --> 01:07:57,640 Speaker 1: a great mixing. To me, the great mix is the 1443 01:07:57,640 --> 01:08:00,680 Speaker 1: one I don't have to comment on. You just want 1444 01:08:00,680 --> 01:08:02,920 Speaker 1: to find something. That one is just it came right 1445 01:08:02,960 --> 01:08:05,360 Speaker 1: before right after Summer, like in that Summer is just 1446 01:08:05,480 --> 01:08:09,960 Speaker 1: mixed like perfect, right. I mean, that's might be the 1447 01:08:09,960 --> 01:08:11,560 Speaker 1: best mix on the hour. It's like and it comes 1448 01:08:11,680 --> 01:08:15,160 Speaker 1: right after that, and I was just like, man, this 1449 01:08:15,240 --> 01:08:18,960 Speaker 1: mix sounds so muffled and whatever. You know, listen, people 1450 01:08:19,000 --> 01:08:21,920 Speaker 1: wish they could have a mix like but for me, 1451 01:08:22,120 --> 01:08:23,519 Speaker 1: we said one of those moments too, Like we talk 1452 01:08:23,560 --> 01:08:26,800 Speaker 1: about those iconic moments and or how records have those 1453 01:08:26,840 --> 01:08:29,240 Speaker 1: magic moments, and like a certain point when Beyonce's rapping, 1454 01:08:29,320 --> 01:08:32,040 Speaker 1: she just takes into another's zone like anything she does 1455 01:08:32,160 --> 01:08:34,519 Speaker 1: just another song. That's just how that's how she approaches 1456 01:08:34,560 --> 01:08:37,040 Speaker 1: the game. You know, Like it's just like I said, 1457 01:08:37,080 --> 01:08:38,880 Speaker 1: the mixes, I don't love it. He's right, I don't 1458 01:08:38,880 --> 01:08:41,679 Speaker 1: love it. I don't love it. Do you have favorites 1459 01:08:41,760 --> 01:08:44,200 Speaker 1: that you do love, like favorite songs like from I 1460 01:08:44,200 --> 01:08:48,240 Speaker 1: guess the artists that you have or um? Yeah, like 1461 01:08:49,680 --> 01:08:52,120 Speaker 1: All Little Lights is my favorite Kanye West song. Great, 1462 01:08:52,200 --> 01:08:54,320 Speaker 1: that's a great mix. Yeah, I mean, that's a great 1463 01:08:54,320 --> 01:08:59,920 Speaker 1: everything to me. You know, that's the song that solidified 1464 01:09:00,040 --> 01:09:03,040 Speaker 1: Kanye is probably the best producer in the game. That 1465 01:09:03,560 --> 01:09:06,040 Speaker 1: artists side. It's a great song, but artist side, and 1466 01:09:06,360 --> 01:09:08,360 Speaker 1: if you understand everything that's going on in that song, 1467 01:09:08,439 --> 01:09:10,559 Speaker 1: how many people are on that song and how he 1468 01:09:10,680 --> 01:09:14,760 Speaker 1: pulled that together for this special moment. But it was 1469 01:09:15,600 --> 01:09:17,680 Speaker 1: to me, that's the slam dunk moment of like, I'm 1470 01:09:17,720 --> 01:09:23,720 Speaker 1: the best producer here. The production is incredible. It's incredible. Um, 1471 01:09:23,840 --> 01:09:26,800 Speaker 1: what else? Like Lose Yourself is my favorite eminem Records. 1472 01:09:27,280 --> 01:09:30,000 Speaker 1: That's a great I commented on Twitter. I said that 1473 01:09:30,120 --> 01:09:33,879 Speaker 1: hook is it's so wordy, but it's just so poignant. Yeah, 1474 01:09:33,920 --> 01:09:36,519 Speaker 1: it's a great record. Yeah, And wordy hooks usually don't work, 1475 01:09:36,880 --> 01:09:39,200 Speaker 1: you know what I mean? Wordy hooks usually don't work 1476 01:09:39,200 --> 01:09:41,439 Speaker 1: and it's just too much going on, right. You know. 1477 01:09:41,760 --> 01:09:44,519 Speaker 1: It's a song that um Andy Gibb had called ever 1478 01:09:44,600 --> 01:09:47,920 Speaker 1: Lasting Love, but it's so many words in that hook, 1479 01:09:48,160 --> 01:09:50,200 Speaker 1: but it works. One of my favorite songs, and Verry 1480 01:09:50,200 --> 01:09:52,920 Speaker 1: GiB is one of my favorite songwriters. But I met 1481 01:09:52,920 --> 01:09:55,439 Speaker 1: Barry GiB before and I said, what were you thinking 1482 01:09:55,479 --> 01:09:58,200 Speaker 1: about when you when you What were you on when 1483 01:09:58,200 --> 01:10:00,000 Speaker 1: you wrote that song? He said, probably something the special, 1484 01:10:03,560 --> 01:10:06,800 Speaker 1: But that's one of my favorites. Um. I mean, I 1485 01:10:06,840 --> 01:10:09,720 Speaker 1: like all music, like Landslide is my favorite Fleetwood Max song, 1486 01:10:09,800 --> 01:10:12,040 Speaker 1: you know what I mean. Queen Bohemian raps he is 1487 01:10:12,040 --> 01:10:14,559 Speaker 1: probably one of my favorite songs of all time, you know, 1488 01:10:14,760 --> 01:10:17,160 Speaker 1: Like I just I like all types of music. You know, 1489 01:10:17,200 --> 01:10:19,160 Speaker 1: somebody was saying I was a concept with saying that 1490 01:10:19,200 --> 01:10:21,200 Speaker 1: they love the Travis gy Sickle Mode was kind of 1491 01:10:21,240 --> 01:10:23,840 Speaker 1: like Bohemian raps it in a sense like a hip 1492 01:10:23,840 --> 01:10:25,519 Speaker 1: hop and I don't know about that, but I want 1493 01:10:25,560 --> 01:10:26,920 Speaker 1: to tell you this. I will tell you this is 1494 01:10:26,960 --> 01:10:28,880 Speaker 1: I was in the studio with Travis and he was 1495 01:10:28,920 --> 01:10:32,080 Speaker 1: playing me songs and he plays Sicko mood. I don't 1496 01:10:32,120 --> 01:10:33,040 Speaker 1: know what it was the name of the song at 1497 01:10:33,040 --> 01:10:36,120 Speaker 1: the time, and I was like, that song is hot. 1498 01:10:36,680 --> 01:10:38,519 Speaker 1: And then I made him playing the song like three 1499 01:10:38,520 --> 01:10:40,360 Speaker 1: different times. I was like, that's that's song. Is the 1500 01:10:40,360 --> 01:10:41,720 Speaker 1: best song you played and I didn't know that was 1501 01:10:41,720 --> 01:10:44,120 Speaker 1: sick on Motive time. And then the album comes out, 1502 01:10:44,120 --> 01:10:45,920 Speaker 1: I said, that's the song in the studio. So you 1503 01:10:46,000 --> 01:10:47,799 Speaker 1: have those moments, I don't. I don't work with Travis, 1504 01:10:47,840 --> 01:10:49,559 Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying, Like those those are those 1505 01:10:49,600 --> 01:10:56,679 Speaker 1: moments where you feel when you go to different companies, 1506 01:10:56,720 --> 01:11:01,559 Speaker 1: people go with you. Man. Yeah, I don't know. Man, 1507 01:11:01,640 --> 01:11:05,840 Speaker 1: Like talking about that later, you're trying to stop some 1508 01:11:05,960 --> 01:11:09,000 Speaker 1: business here if you're just looking bright though, the future 1509 01:11:09,040 --> 01:11:11,439 Speaker 1: is definitely looking bright. But I can say I give. 1510 01:11:11,640 --> 01:11:14,160 Speaker 1: I was in the student with Swiss Ones recently actually, 1511 01:11:14,840 --> 01:11:18,240 Speaker 1: and uh he's playing his album Yeah for me and 1512 01:11:18,280 --> 01:11:22,000 Speaker 1: jams really good. It's really good. So he's like, the 1513 01:11:22,040 --> 01:11:24,439 Speaker 1: tenth song he plays us, it's this song with Young Thugs. 1514 01:11:25,120 --> 01:11:27,439 Speaker 1: It's coming out. He called me yesterday. I spoke to 1515 01:11:27,439 --> 01:11:30,519 Speaker 1: me yesterday. He said it's coming out Friday. But I'm like, 1516 01:11:30,600 --> 01:11:33,240 Speaker 1: that's the best song on your album and he was like, 1517 01:11:33,640 --> 01:11:35,559 Speaker 1: oh no, just this and y'all, I got this other record. 1518 01:11:35,600 --> 01:11:37,400 Speaker 1: I said, those songs are good, but that's the best 1519 01:11:37,439 --> 01:11:39,719 Speaker 1: song on your album, like you Got Young Thucks sounded 1520 01:11:39,880 --> 01:11:44,519 Speaker 1: amazing running on, No, no, it's it's and you we 1521 01:11:44,640 --> 01:11:47,760 Speaker 1: heard it. It's incredible. And so we're going on and on. 1522 01:11:47,840 --> 01:11:50,360 Speaker 1: Jamaine is talking to him and I remember at one 1523 01:11:50,400 --> 01:11:52,000 Speaker 1: point saying the Swiss, I said, do you know how 1524 01:11:52,040 --> 01:11:57,680 Speaker 1: much people pay me for this information? Like give me 1525 01:11:57,720 --> 01:12:00,760 Speaker 1: it to you for free? At uh It's funny because 1526 01:12:00,760 --> 01:12:02,679 Speaker 1: I see John Tay Austin was in the studio as well, 1527 01:12:03,439 --> 01:12:05,080 Speaker 1: and I've just seen John Tay at a concert and 1528 01:12:05,120 --> 01:12:06,479 Speaker 1: he came to me said, do you know how much 1529 01:12:06,479 --> 01:12:09,720 Speaker 1: people pay me for this? It was an ethnic night 1530 01:12:09,760 --> 01:12:11,479 Speaker 1: and it was an ethic night in the studio. Another 1531 01:12:11,479 --> 01:12:13,280 Speaker 1: ethic night is going to be in October eleven before 1532 01:12:13,280 --> 01:12:14,960 Speaker 1: we get out of here. So what's going down on 1533 01:12:15,000 --> 01:12:17,640 Speaker 1: October level for people that don't know, I'm receiving the 1534 01:12:17,640 --> 01:12:21,000 Speaker 1: Spirit of Life Award from City of Hope. Um, it's 1535 01:12:21,040 --> 01:12:23,519 Speaker 1: like the highest honor in the music business and an 1536 01:12:23,560 --> 01:12:28,400 Speaker 1: executive can achieve. And uh so they chose me this year, 1537 01:12:28,479 --> 01:12:30,559 Speaker 1: and that's and that's great, it's the award and everything, 1538 01:12:30,600 --> 01:12:32,479 Speaker 1: but really, what City of hope Is is a cancer 1539 01:12:32,479 --> 01:12:35,840 Speaker 1: research center and they do a lot of great things 1540 01:12:35,840 --> 01:12:38,160 Speaker 1: and they work in the cure type one diabetes as well, 1541 01:12:38,160 --> 01:12:41,599 Speaker 1: which my son actually has. And um, so we're raising 1542 01:12:41,640 --> 01:12:43,600 Speaker 1: a lot of money. Um. You know a lot of 1543 01:12:43,600 --> 01:12:46,639 Speaker 1: my friends have come together to help me to help 1544 01:12:46,640 --> 01:12:49,400 Speaker 1: celebrate the evening but also helped raise some money, you 1545 01:12:49,439 --> 01:12:52,639 Speaker 1: know for RELI is hosting the event. Um. Uh, Jay 1546 01:12:52,720 --> 01:12:56,080 Speaker 1: is performing, I'm Jay is presenting and uh and that 1547 01:12:56,200 --> 01:12:59,599 Speaker 1: be It's performing, you know Mary Mary's performing as well. Um. 1548 01:12:59,680 --> 01:13:04,120 Speaker 1: As I signed them back in seven maybe night on 1549 01:13:04,320 --> 01:13:06,720 Speaker 1: whatever it was, but I signed them. Warren Campbell is 1550 01:13:06,760 --> 01:13:08,320 Speaker 1: one of my first song writers I signed, and that's 1551 01:13:08,360 --> 01:13:11,040 Speaker 1: the producer and I'm going over the house signed them, 1552 01:13:11,040 --> 01:13:14,000 Speaker 1: and so it's important for me for them to be 1553 01:13:14,000 --> 01:13:15,400 Speaker 1: a part of the show as well so people see 1554 01:13:15,400 --> 01:13:17,840 Speaker 1: the journey. You know. It's amazing. How do you find 1555 01:13:17,840 --> 01:13:20,280 Speaker 1: that balanced because you're still like very behind the scenes, right, 1556 01:13:20,320 --> 01:13:23,320 Speaker 1: Like how are you dealing with the attention with stuff 1557 01:13:23,360 --> 01:13:25,040 Speaker 1: like that? But you always like try to keep a balance. 1558 01:13:25,320 --> 01:13:31,400 Speaker 1: Not so well, Elliott, before we go, Yeah, that's so well. 1559 01:13:31,439 --> 01:13:33,880 Speaker 1: I mean this is um. You know, I enjoyed being 1560 01:13:33,880 --> 01:13:36,840 Speaker 1: behind the scenes, you know, uh, you know, I always 1561 01:13:36,840 --> 01:13:38,720 Speaker 1: tell up, they say. People always ask me why I 1562 01:13:38,720 --> 01:13:42,960 Speaker 1: don't do more, you know, because I obviously can. But 1563 01:13:43,040 --> 01:13:44,559 Speaker 1: my view is there's only one star in the room, 1564 01:13:44,560 --> 01:13:49,320 Speaker 1: and that's the star. That's how I roll. Appreciate, appreciate 1565 01:13:49,800 --> 01:13:52,759 Speaker 1: being part of the role. Come through here man. Absolutely, yeah, 1566 01:13:52,800 --> 01:13:55,000 Speaker 1: thank you, it's BacT man, Big John, thank you, thank 1567 01:13:55,040 --> 01:14:01,000 Speaker 1: you sir for success. Right yeah, I