1 00:00:03,800 --> 00:00:07,400 Speaker 1: Hey Bessies, Hello Sunshine. Today on the bright Side, we're 2 00:00:07,440 --> 00:00:10,320 Speaker 1: diving into this month's shelf life pick with the one 3 00:00:10,400 --> 00:00:14,120 Speaker 1: the only, Jew hay Kim. Her stunning novel City of 4 00:00:14,200 --> 00:00:17,000 Speaker 1: night Birds, is lighting up Reese's book Club this December. 5 00:00:17,400 --> 00:00:20,160 Speaker 1: And when I say that this masterpiece sweeps us into 6 00:00:20,200 --> 00:00:23,279 Speaker 1: the captivating world of Russian ballet, let me tell you, 7 00:00:23,360 --> 00:00:26,800 Speaker 1: ju hayes Pros does not tell a story. It sings. 8 00:00:27,360 --> 00:00:30,600 Speaker 1: Grab a coffee, because this is a conversation you don't 9 00:00:30,640 --> 00:00:31,360 Speaker 1: want to miss. 10 00:00:31,920 --> 00:00:36,720 Speaker 2: Art is speaking to universal values and again, it doesn't 11 00:00:36,760 --> 00:00:39,400 Speaker 2: do that done. That's not true art, and that's not 12 00:00:39,479 --> 00:00:40,400 Speaker 2: a true artist. 13 00:00:41,400 --> 00:00:44,559 Speaker 3: It's Thursday, December nineteenth. I'm Simoane Voice. 14 00:00:44,240 --> 00:00:46,599 Speaker 1: I'm Danielle Robe and this is the bright Side from 15 00:00:46,680 --> 00:00:49,440 Speaker 1: Hello Sunshine, a daily show where we come together to 16 00:00:49,440 --> 00:00:56,000 Speaker 1: share women's stories, laugh, learn and brighten your day. So 17 00:00:56,160 --> 00:00:58,920 Speaker 1: every month we have the pleasure of talking with rock 18 00:00:58,920 --> 00:01:02,520 Speaker 1: stars also known as authors, and every time we do, 19 00:01:03,080 --> 00:01:06,520 Speaker 1: we love exploring their mindsets, their creativity, the way they 20 00:01:06,520 --> 00:01:09,560 Speaker 1: bring their ideas to life on the page. And today 21 00:01:09,600 --> 00:01:11,959 Speaker 1: we're in for such a treat because Jew hay Kim 22 00:01:12,360 --> 00:01:16,319 Speaker 1: is so excellent in every single way and she draws 23 00:01:16,319 --> 00:01:19,520 Speaker 1: from her passion for classical music and Russian ballet to 24 00:01:19,680 --> 00:01:23,039 Speaker 1: inspire her writing and create the structure of her novels. 25 00:01:22,920 --> 00:01:25,440 Speaker 3: Well, Danielle, what's so fascinating about jew Hay is that 26 00:01:25,520 --> 00:01:28,640 Speaker 3: she was born in South Korea and raised in Portland, Oregon, 27 00:01:28,720 --> 00:01:32,040 Speaker 3: and yet somehow her writing in this book captures the 28 00:01:32,080 --> 00:01:35,479 Speaker 3: soul and spirit of Russia, country she had never even 29 00:01:35,520 --> 00:01:39,000 Speaker 3: set foot in before writing an entire novel about it. 30 00:01:39,000 --> 00:01:40,880 Speaker 3: It does make a lot of sense, though, when you 31 00:01:40,920 --> 00:01:43,800 Speaker 3: realize that jew Hay grew up reading the great Russian 32 00:01:43,800 --> 00:01:47,360 Speaker 3: authors like Tolstoy, who she calls her literary north star. 33 00:01:47,920 --> 00:01:51,120 Speaker 3: His words kind of became this spiritual compass for her, 34 00:01:51,520 --> 00:01:53,600 Speaker 3: guiding her to a place that she hadn't yet been, 35 00:01:53,720 --> 00:01:56,920 Speaker 3: but somehow already knew deep down in her soul. And 36 00:01:56,960 --> 00:01:59,880 Speaker 3: now jew Hay, whose first language was Korean and second, 37 00:02:00,120 --> 00:02:02,880 Speaker 3: which is English, is now winning awards from the. 38 00:02:02,880 --> 00:02:04,400 Speaker 4: Tolstoy estate itself. 39 00:02:04,880 --> 00:02:07,560 Speaker 3: Her debut novel, Beasts of a Little Land, won the 40 00:02:07,600 --> 00:02:12,320 Speaker 3: twenty twenty four Yasnaya Polianna Literary Award for Foreign Literature. 41 00:02:12,280 --> 00:02:15,040 Speaker 1: Incredible, and her second novel, City of Night Birds, is 42 00:02:15,160 --> 00:02:18,240 Speaker 1: really a love letter to Russian ballet and classical music, 43 00:02:18,800 --> 00:02:22,440 Speaker 1: two things that have inspired her throughout her life. This 44 00:02:22,480 --> 00:02:25,120 Speaker 1: book is set in an array of Russian cities and 45 00:02:25,160 --> 00:02:28,880 Speaker 1: it tells the story of a ballerina, Natalia, who overcomes 46 00:02:28,880 --> 00:02:31,800 Speaker 1: an injury and battles her way back to the stage. 47 00:02:32,440 --> 00:02:35,200 Speaker 1: You know, the world of ballet has long been associated 48 00:02:35,240 --> 00:02:41,040 Speaker 1: with tradition and discipline and resilience, all qualities that Juhey 49 00:02:41,160 --> 00:02:45,560 Speaker 1: embodies herself. She is wildly brilliant and I'm just so 50 00:02:45,639 --> 00:02:49,160 Speaker 1: excited for this conversation. Let's bring her in. Juey, Welcome 51 00:02:49,200 --> 00:02:50,160 Speaker 1: to the bright Side. 52 00:02:50,600 --> 00:02:52,399 Speaker 5: Hi, so nice to meet you. 53 00:02:52,880 --> 00:02:54,560 Speaker 1: It's so nice to meet you, and we're really so 54 00:02:54,639 --> 00:02:58,120 Speaker 1: happy to have you here. Ariese's Book Club. Authors are 55 00:02:58,240 --> 00:03:01,120 Speaker 1: just such a sparkly part of our show, so Simone 56 00:03:01,120 --> 00:03:03,440 Speaker 1: and I love speaking to beautiful writers. 57 00:03:03,520 --> 00:03:04,720 Speaker 5: Oh, thank you so much. 58 00:03:05,280 --> 00:03:07,320 Speaker 1: Want to jump right in with your book, which is 59 00:03:07,480 --> 00:03:10,120 Speaker 1: City of night Birds, because it follows this journey of 60 00:03:10,240 --> 00:03:14,560 Speaker 1: ballerina whose relentless ambition propels her to the pinnacle of 61 00:03:14,600 --> 00:03:18,280 Speaker 1: the dance world. But then there's an injury that abruptly 62 00:03:18,360 --> 00:03:21,160 Speaker 1: derails her career. And I know that you've mentioned that 63 00:03:21,200 --> 00:03:24,280 Speaker 1: writing a novel about Ballet has always been a dream 64 00:03:24,280 --> 00:03:27,920 Speaker 1: of yours. What inspired you to set your story in 65 00:03:28,040 --> 00:03:30,560 Speaker 1: this world? And what about ballet made it the perfect 66 00:03:30,639 --> 00:03:32,040 Speaker 1: backdrop for this narrative. 67 00:03:32,360 --> 00:03:36,680 Speaker 2: Well, I was asked by my then editor what I 68 00:03:36,800 --> 00:03:40,400 Speaker 2: was working on next, and immediately I knew that it 69 00:03:40,440 --> 00:03:43,360 Speaker 2: was going to be my lifelong passion, which is ballet. 70 00:03:43,920 --> 00:03:47,400 Speaker 2: I grew up learning ballet, performing on stage. I am 71 00:03:47,440 --> 00:03:50,760 Speaker 2: also a lifelong classical musician, so I grew up playing 72 00:03:50,760 --> 00:03:55,320 Speaker 2: the cello, and I have always had this love for 73 00:03:55,560 --> 00:03:59,320 Speaker 2: classical music and ballet, and so much that I wanted 74 00:03:59,360 --> 00:04:03,160 Speaker 2: to express about it. Went into City of Night Birds. 75 00:04:03,800 --> 00:04:05,800 Speaker 2: My novels tend to come. 76 00:04:05,600 --> 00:04:06,440 Speaker 5: From the ether. 77 00:04:07,080 --> 00:04:10,200 Speaker 2: I sometimes say that it feels as though I'm being 78 00:04:10,240 --> 00:04:14,640 Speaker 2: inspired by the muses, because it does feel mystical and 79 00:04:14,840 --> 00:04:18,480 Speaker 2: difficult to explain rationally, but when you receive it, it 80 00:04:18,560 --> 00:04:22,600 Speaker 2: feels so pure and you don't want to chase away 81 00:04:23,279 --> 00:04:27,200 Speaker 2: this pure inspiration that came from somewhere outside of you, 82 00:04:27,320 --> 00:04:31,760 Speaker 2: somewhere greater than you. With this story, I knew immediately 83 00:04:32,200 --> 00:04:34,279 Speaker 2: who these characters were going to be and what the 84 00:04:34,320 --> 00:04:37,960 Speaker 2: story was going to be, and I chose Russian ballet 85 00:04:38,080 --> 00:04:41,400 Speaker 2: because of all the different schools of ballet that's out there. 86 00:04:41,960 --> 00:04:45,360 Speaker 2: I personally most gravitate toward the Waganava method. 87 00:04:45,680 --> 00:04:47,080 Speaker 5: As somebody who dances. 88 00:04:47,600 --> 00:04:51,240 Speaker 2: I think Russian ballet is so known for its bravura, 89 00:04:51,760 --> 00:04:57,960 Speaker 2: which means this technical mastery and vim this vibrance that 90 00:04:58,040 --> 00:05:01,120 Speaker 2: they have and their way of relig to the audience. 91 00:05:01,400 --> 00:05:05,479 Speaker 2: So I love that charisma that Russian ballet brings to 92 00:05:05,600 --> 00:05:08,960 Speaker 2: the world stage, so I wanted to convey some of 93 00:05:08,960 --> 00:05:10,520 Speaker 2: that through this specific setting. 94 00:05:10,839 --> 00:05:12,560 Speaker 1: Correct me if I'm wrong, But from what I know 95 00:05:12,640 --> 00:05:17,200 Speaker 1: about Russian ballet, there's a real discipline, maybe even more 96 00:05:17,360 --> 00:05:21,400 Speaker 1: so than other types of ballet. There's this technical precision, 97 00:05:21,760 --> 00:05:27,000 Speaker 1: but there's also a storytelling element, which particularly interests me 98 00:05:27,480 --> 00:05:31,159 Speaker 1: about you as an author, because I'm wondering if, as 99 00:05:31,200 --> 00:05:34,719 Speaker 1: you were writing this book, instead of the Hero's Journey, 100 00:05:34,760 --> 00:05:36,600 Speaker 1: you thought of it maybe as a song or a 101 00:05:36,720 --> 00:05:39,520 Speaker 1: dance and having a crescendo, like did you think of 102 00:05:39,520 --> 00:05:40,880 Speaker 1: it in this sing song way? 103 00:05:41,080 --> 00:05:45,919 Speaker 2: Absolutely, this book is as close to music as I 104 00:05:45,960 --> 00:05:49,120 Speaker 2: can imagine a work of art can be when it 105 00:05:49,200 --> 00:05:54,600 Speaker 2: is primarily a literary format. And I'm always inspired by 106 00:05:54,760 --> 00:05:57,760 Speaker 2: classical music when I write my novels. My first novel 107 00:05:57,880 --> 00:06:02,280 Speaker 2: was inspired by a symphony, specifically Bruckner's Symphony number eight, 108 00:06:02,920 --> 00:06:06,800 Speaker 2: and you know that symphony has four movements, So I 109 00:06:06,839 --> 00:06:10,919 Speaker 2: wanted to structure my novels with four walls, like the 110 00:06:11,080 --> 00:06:15,720 Speaker 2: four movements of Brokener symphony, and going around the walls 111 00:06:16,040 --> 00:06:20,840 Speaker 2: was my multiple cast of characters, the multiple third person 112 00:06:20,920 --> 00:06:24,520 Speaker 2: POV ending at the keystone at the top, which is 113 00:06:24,560 --> 00:06:28,880 Speaker 2: where the resolution comes and all of these different narratives 114 00:06:29,000 --> 00:06:33,120 Speaker 2: come together to make sense at the end. And for 115 00:06:33,320 --> 00:06:38,600 Speaker 2: this novel, I was instantly pulled by the idea of 116 00:06:38,640 --> 00:06:43,400 Speaker 2: a concerto, and a very specific concerto molts are Piano 117 00:06:43,440 --> 00:06:47,359 Speaker 2: Concerto number twenty three in a major. Now, Moltzart wrote 118 00:06:47,560 --> 00:06:51,560 Speaker 2: hundreds of different pieces, and I think of this particular 119 00:06:51,680 --> 00:06:57,640 Speaker 2: work as showing the full range of romantic love, from 120 00:06:58,040 --> 00:07:04,200 Speaker 2: its sacredness all the way to its profanity. And I 121 00:07:04,240 --> 00:07:09,760 Speaker 2: wanted to do this in first person POV because a 122 00:07:09,840 --> 00:07:17,520 Speaker 2: concerto is a symphonic work that features a virtuosic solo instrumentalist, 123 00:07:17,720 --> 00:07:22,000 Speaker 2: and it is designed to showcase all the talents of 124 00:07:22,080 --> 00:07:28,280 Speaker 2: that soloist. So I imagined structuring this novel with past 125 00:07:28,360 --> 00:07:31,760 Speaker 2: and present alternating timelines to show that breath of what 126 00:07:31,920 --> 00:07:35,520 Speaker 2: a single voice can do and to give that texture. 127 00:07:35,920 --> 00:07:41,360 Speaker 2: And I'm really happy at how musical it seemed to 128 00:07:41,400 --> 00:07:43,640 Speaker 2: me while I was writing it, and hopefully while you're 129 00:07:43,680 --> 00:07:44,560 Speaker 2: reading it too. 130 00:07:45,400 --> 00:07:47,920 Speaker 4: Do Hey, I am so blown away by you. 131 00:07:48,600 --> 00:07:51,000 Speaker 3: I want to actually go back to something you said 132 00:07:51,080 --> 00:07:56,360 Speaker 3: earlier about being visited by muses when you're writing this story, 133 00:07:57,120 --> 00:08:00,840 Speaker 3: and I know that there are so many creative listeners 134 00:08:00,880 --> 00:08:03,680 Speaker 3: in our audience who want to tap into that same 135 00:08:03,800 --> 00:08:07,400 Speaker 3: source of inspiration. What state of mind were you in 136 00:08:07,680 --> 00:08:09,880 Speaker 3: to be so connected to the source. 137 00:08:10,480 --> 00:08:13,120 Speaker 2: I'm at a point in my career where I know 138 00:08:13,560 --> 00:08:18,800 Speaker 2: what helps induce this condition. So you can't force it, 139 00:08:18,920 --> 00:08:24,040 Speaker 2: because again, it's not really you. But if you're listening 140 00:08:24,080 --> 00:08:29,200 Speaker 2: and you're a creative, you can create the conditions for 141 00:08:29,320 --> 00:08:33,080 Speaker 2: which you are likely to be visited by inspiration. For me, 142 00:08:34,000 --> 00:08:36,360 Speaker 2: nature has a lot to do with it. If I 143 00:08:36,440 --> 00:08:41,000 Speaker 2: am lacking an inspiration, I go for a walk and 144 00:08:41,559 --> 00:08:45,160 Speaker 2: candles help me a lot. You know a favorite beverage, 145 00:08:45,200 --> 00:08:48,880 Speaker 2: whether that's a hot drink like coffee or hot chocolate. 146 00:08:48,960 --> 00:08:51,800 Speaker 2: I drink a lot of hot chocolate while writing City 147 00:08:51,800 --> 00:08:53,000 Speaker 2: of night Birds. 148 00:08:53,280 --> 00:08:55,720 Speaker 5: I think that there are two different types of writers. 149 00:08:55,760 --> 00:08:59,840 Speaker 2: There's the lightning strike of inspiration writers and there's the revisors. 150 00:09:00,640 --> 00:09:03,520 Speaker 2: I'm clearly the former. I know a lot of writers 151 00:09:03,559 --> 00:09:06,840 Speaker 2: who are the latter. But there is no right or 152 00:09:06,920 --> 00:09:10,280 Speaker 2: wrong way to write. You have to figure out what 153 00:09:10,360 --> 00:09:14,680 Speaker 2: type of writer you are and trust yourself whichever way 154 00:09:14,679 --> 00:09:18,480 Speaker 2: it is. There are pros and cons to each approach. I, 155 00:09:18,600 --> 00:09:21,800 Speaker 2: for example, love drafting because that's when I'm in this 156 00:09:21,920 --> 00:09:25,360 Speaker 2: flow state and it feels magical and I can write 157 00:09:25,440 --> 00:09:27,840 Speaker 2: for hours and hours and I don't even want to 158 00:09:27,920 --> 00:09:32,760 Speaker 2: eat or sleep during that time. But I do not 159 00:09:33,120 --> 00:09:37,800 Speaker 2: enjoy revising all that much because it feels disrespectful to 160 00:09:37,880 --> 00:09:40,320 Speaker 2: the muses to be like slashing all the things that 161 00:09:40,360 --> 00:09:43,640 Speaker 2: I wrote during that flow state. However, I also know 162 00:09:43,760 --> 00:09:48,000 Speaker 2: that revising is crucial to make it understandable to anybody 163 00:09:48,000 --> 00:09:51,720 Speaker 2: else who's not me. Every writer brings something so unique 164 00:09:51,800 --> 00:09:53,920 Speaker 2: to the process, so trust yourself. 165 00:09:54,360 --> 00:09:56,880 Speaker 3: I could listen to you talk about creativity and flow 166 00:09:56,920 --> 00:09:58,880 Speaker 3: states all day, but I also want to get into 167 00:09:58,960 --> 00:10:02,720 Speaker 3: your personal story because that is what makes you unique 168 00:10:02,760 --> 00:10:05,640 Speaker 3: and what makes your writings so unique. So you immigrated 169 00:10:05,640 --> 00:10:07,760 Speaker 3: to the US from South Korea when you were nine 170 00:10:07,840 --> 00:10:10,400 Speaker 3: years old. I read that at the time you only 171 00:10:10,440 --> 00:10:12,560 Speaker 3: spoke Korean and had to learn to read and write 172 00:10:12,559 --> 00:10:15,960 Speaker 3: English in school. And you wrote that you went from 173 00:10:16,000 --> 00:10:18,840 Speaker 3: being a top student in South Korea to feeling like 174 00:10:19,120 --> 00:10:21,480 Speaker 3: the dumbest kid in class when you got to Portland. 175 00:10:21,559 --> 00:10:24,480 Speaker 3: And that thought is so shocking to me, because I 176 00:10:24,480 --> 00:10:28,199 Speaker 3: can ever imagine you feeling insecure about your intellectual abilities. 177 00:10:28,720 --> 00:10:31,080 Speaker 1: Is Portland kids must have been mensa. 178 00:10:31,400 --> 00:10:36,120 Speaker 2: I not only felt bad about, you know, myself compared 179 00:10:36,160 --> 00:10:39,679 Speaker 2: to other kids. I didn't really have teachers who also 180 00:10:39,720 --> 00:10:43,880 Speaker 2: believed in me for a long time, up until probably 181 00:10:44,200 --> 00:10:46,720 Speaker 2: high school. So I had one teacher who made a difference. 182 00:10:46,760 --> 00:10:49,200 Speaker 2: His name was mister Johnson, and he taught me math 183 00:10:49,320 --> 00:10:52,720 Speaker 2: from seven to twelfth grade, and he was the person 184 00:10:52,760 --> 00:10:55,120 Speaker 2: who saw the potential in me. But now I make 185 00:10:55,160 --> 00:10:57,800 Speaker 2: a living as a writer, and it is not as 186 00:10:57,880 --> 00:11:01,640 Speaker 2: though in English class I was doing some creative writing 187 00:11:01,679 --> 00:11:05,440 Speaker 2: and blowing everyone away, including my English teacher. So if 188 00:11:05,520 --> 00:11:08,560 Speaker 2: you ever went to school and did not feel like 189 00:11:08,720 --> 00:11:12,720 Speaker 2: a special talented kid, you're not alone, because that's exactly 190 00:11:12,720 --> 00:11:13,440 Speaker 2: how I felt. 191 00:11:16,679 --> 00:11:18,199 Speaker 1: We have to take a quick break, but when we 192 00:11:18,280 --> 00:11:21,760 Speaker 1: come back, we're diving deeper into you. Haykim's latest novel 193 00:11:21,920 --> 00:11:24,079 Speaker 1: City of Night Birds stay with us. 194 00:11:31,800 --> 00:11:33,559 Speaker 4: And we're back with jew Hakim. 195 00:11:34,040 --> 00:11:38,240 Speaker 1: In thinking about the location where you set this novel 196 00:11:38,440 --> 00:11:41,840 Speaker 1: in Russia, it's so interesting to me. I know you 197 00:11:41,960 --> 00:11:45,800 Speaker 1: have this connection to Russian ballet, but it seems like 198 00:11:45,880 --> 00:11:52,320 Speaker 1: you have this interest and curiosity about Russian culture in general. 199 00:11:52,960 --> 00:11:56,080 Speaker 1: Is that tied to ballet for you or is it 200 00:11:56,200 --> 00:11:56,800 Speaker 1: larger than that. 201 00:11:57,400 --> 00:12:02,600 Speaker 5: It's absolutely larger than that. And you know this is 202 00:12:02,640 --> 00:12:04,080 Speaker 5: a question of sensibility. 203 00:12:04,880 --> 00:12:09,360 Speaker 2: Now. Susan Sontag, the photographer, said that sensibility is the 204 00:12:09,440 --> 00:12:13,520 Speaker 2: hardest thing to talk about, and I believe that that's true, Like, 205 00:12:14,040 --> 00:12:19,720 Speaker 2: how do we describe what sensibility is? And in this case, 206 00:12:20,520 --> 00:12:25,040 Speaker 2: the Russian sensibility really matched up with my own sensibility, 207 00:12:25,160 --> 00:12:26,680 Speaker 2: which comes from being Korean. 208 00:12:26,840 --> 00:12:29,319 Speaker 5: As a matter of fact, I have a. 209 00:12:29,360 --> 00:12:34,600 Speaker 2: Theory on why I think that Korean sensibility corresponds largely 210 00:12:34,720 --> 00:12:40,959 Speaker 2: to the Russian sensibility. The Russians, with their literature, with 211 00:12:41,040 --> 00:12:45,840 Speaker 2: their music, with their ballet, really prize the soul. And 212 00:12:46,000 --> 00:12:50,560 Speaker 2: it's called dusha in Russian. And it's something that I 213 00:12:50,640 --> 00:12:54,440 Speaker 2: hesitate to bring up because it is so cliche. We 214 00:12:54,559 --> 00:12:57,720 Speaker 2: have heard again and again about the Russian soul, Russian soul. 215 00:12:58,320 --> 00:13:01,680 Speaker 2: But I have proof that this isn't just a cliche. 216 00:13:01,880 --> 00:13:08,199 Speaker 2: It is really like deep within Russian artists psyche. So recently, 217 00:13:08,440 --> 00:13:10,280 Speaker 2: like just a couple of weeks ago, I took a 218 00:13:10,320 --> 00:13:15,720 Speaker 2: master class with Natalia Sipova, who is a renowned former 219 00:13:15,800 --> 00:13:19,960 Speaker 2: principal of Bolshoi Ballet and now current principle at the 220 00:13:20,040 --> 00:13:24,320 Speaker 2: Royal Ballet. And it was a master class for advance 221 00:13:24,400 --> 00:13:29,480 Speaker 2: to intermediate students, and she stopped the class very early 222 00:13:29,559 --> 00:13:31,959 Speaker 2: on when we're doing basic tundus. 223 00:13:32,800 --> 00:13:35,960 Speaker 5: This isn't something that you know, typically. 224 00:13:35,559 --> 00:13:38,120 Speaker 2: People would be like, okay, you guys, stop, like, let's 225 00:13:38,160 --> 00:13:42,480 Speaker 2: really go over this. She stopped the class and she said, okay, guys, 226 00:13:43,040 --> 00:13:48,119 Speaker 2: legs are great, but the arms, the portobra, your shoulders 227 00:13:48,160 --> 00:13:52,000 Speaker 2: and your back. This is how you show your soul, 228 00:13:52,559 --> 00:13:57,440 Speaker 2: your beautiful woman's soul. And this really struck me. I 229 00:13:57,480 --> 00:14:00,400 Speaker 2: gotta tell you, there is not an American or English 230 00:14:00,400 --> 00:14:04,000 Speaker 2: ballet teacher who'd stop class at basic tondus five minutes 231 00:14:04,000 --> 00:14:08,000 Speaker 2: into class with advanced students to tell them you need 232 00:14:08,000 --> 00:14:09,800 Speaker 2: to be showing your soul right now. This is not 233 00:14:09,840 --> 00:14:13,080 Speaker 2: a very creative portion of the class, but already she 234 00:14:13,240 --> 00:14:16,079 Speaker 2: was thinking, this is what you need to take away 235 00:14:16,080 --> 00:14:19,560 Speaker 2: from today's class, like how you show your soul. And 236 00:14:20,320 --> 00:14:24,600 Speaker 2: this applies to not just ballet, but I think their music, 237 00:14:25,280 --> 00:14:33,080 Speaker 2: their literature. So I grew up reading, of course, Tolstoy, Dostoevsky, Pasternak, 238 00:14:33,360 --> 00:14:38,720 Speaker 2: all of these writers who really exhibit a deep commitment 239 00:14:38,920 --> 00:14:43,560 Speaker 2: to humanity. You know, there's always a message, this deep 240 00:14:43,680 --> 00:14:50,320 Speaker 2: love of humanity in even the darkest Russian novels like Dostoevsky. 241 00:14:50,600 --> 00:14:54,760 Speaker 2: You can sense this soul aspect from Tchaikovsky, for example. 242 00:14:55,080 --> 00:14:58,040 Speaker 2: Tchaikovsky was very well aware of the Russian soul. She 243 00:14:58,360 --> 00:15:01,800 Speaker 2: wrote frequently about it in his letters as well. So 244 00:15:02,160 --> 00:15:06,200 Speaker 2: I think that that sensibility really resonated with me as 245 00:15:06,240 --> 00:15:11,200 Speaker 2: a Korean artist because of our similar death or our 246 00:15:11,320 --> 00:15:14,200 Speaker 2: similar love of humanity. 247 00:15:14,240 --> 00:15:17,800 Speaker 3: It's remarkable to me that you wrote this novel without 248 00:15:18,000 --> 00:15:22,920 Speaker 3: ever having visited Russia. The way that you honor a 249 00:15:22,960 --> 00:15:26,120 Speaker 3: culture that is not your own is it's really a 250 00:15:26,240 --> 00:15:30,400 Speaker 3: rare skill. What was that moment like when you finally 251 00:15:30,960 --> 00:15:34,400 Speaker 3: visited Russia? Was the flame as fervent as you had 252 00:15:34,440 --> 00:15:35,240 Speaker 3: imagined it to be? 253 00:15:35,920 --> 00:15:40,880 Speaker 2: Oh? It was, It was in so many ways very 254 00:15:40,880 --> 00:15:45,600 Speaker 2: close to how I imagined. I could feel the love 255 00:15:45,760 --> 00:15:50,360 Speaker 2: of arts from the streets, from the monuments of poets 256 00:15:50,440 --> 00:15:54,880 Speaker 2: and composers, everywhere in the parks. You know, the common people, 257 00:15:55,280 --> 00:15:59,000 Speaker 2: like even just pedestrians. If you stop them and asked, 258 00:15:59,360 --> 00:16:02,200 Speaker 2: do you have a favorite poem? Could you please recite 259 00:16:02,240 --> 00:16:05,320 Speaker 2: it for us? Chances are they have a favorite poem 260 00:16:05,360 --> 00:16:07,880 Speaker 2: that they can just recite. And these are not publishing people, 261 00:16:08,560 --> 00:16:12,720 Speaker 2: So that sense of history, that love for the arts 262 00:16:12,920 --> 00:16:17,000 Speaker 2: was completely how I imagined, and it was so beautiful. 263 00:16:17,680 --> 00:16:18,880 Speaker 5: I had a certain. 264 00:16:18,600 --> 00:16:24,360 Speaker 2: Amount of trepidation because I am such a place based 265 00:16:24,400 --> 00:16:28,840 Speaker 2: writer and I really wanted to do research firsthand. Unfortunately, 266 00:16:29,000 --> 00:16:32,040 Speaker 2: because of the political situation, I wasn't able to go 267 00:16:32,760 --> 00:16:36,280 Speaker 2: until I was given an award and I was able 268 00:16:36,320 --> 00:16:41,640 Speaker 2: to receive a humanitarian visa to specially visit for this occasion. 269 00:16:42,240 --> 00:16:49,200 Speaker 2: And I was really touched by the people most of all, 270 00:16:49,760 --> 00:16:54,280 Speaker 2: and the readers were so thankful that I did not 271 00:16:54,800 --> 00:16:58,200 Speaker 2: turn my back on my readers there. 272 00:16:59,320 --> 00:17:00,920 Speaker 5: I think that they're is a sense. 273 00:17:00,920 --> 00:17:06,119 Speaker 2: That a lot of authors are afraid to be seen 274 00:17:06,640 --> 00:17:11,120 Speaker 2: connecting in any way with Russian civilians now, and I 275 00:17:11,280 --> 00:17:18,040 Speaker 2: was definitely mindful that these are book lovers, and my colleagues, 276 00:17:18,160 --> 00:17:23,440 Speaker 2: my translator, my editor, I speak with them, and these 277 00:17:23,440 --> 00:17:27,800 Speaker 2: are not the same as their politicians. Just like in 278 00:17:27,840 --> 00:17:32,040 Speaker 2: any country, I think that the more civilians understand that 279 00:17:32,080 --> 00:17:35,919 Speaker 2: they are closer to one another than they are to 280 00:17:36,000 --> 00:17:40,800 Speaker 2: their respective governments, we have a better chance of creating peace. 281 00:17:41,520 --> 00:17:44,600 Speaker 2: And my job as an artist is to remind people 282 00:17:44,600 --> 00:17:46,840 Speaker 2: of that fact, because art is one of the few 283 00:17:46,880 --> 00:17:51,080 Speaker 2: things in the world that truly transcends boundaries. Yes, art 284 00:17:51,160 --> 00:17:55,639 Speaker 2: is speaking to universal values, and again, if that doesn't 285 00:17:55,680 --> 00:17:58,280 Speaker 2: do that, then that's not true art, and that's not 286 00:17:58,359 --> 00:18:03,560 Speaker 2: a true artist. So I wrote this book very cognizant 287 00:18:03,560 --> 00:18:08,960 Speaker 2: of that. I invite anybody who is wondering what does 288 00:18:09,000 --> 00:18:13,200 Speaker 2: this say about the context of the Ukraine War, I 289 00:18:13,240 --> 00:18:16,439 Speaker 2: really invite you to read it. I did have to 290 00:18:16,480 --> 00:18:19,639 Speaker 2: take a certain amount of personal risk to be able 291 00:18:19,720 --> 00:18:24,160 Speaker 2: to write this novel because I am well known in Russia, 292 00:18:26,200 --> 00:18:31,720 Speaker 2: and I did it out of my own commitment to integrity. 293 00:18:31,840 --> 00:18:34,840 Speaker 2: So I really hope that you will read it and 294 00:18:35,000 --> 00:18:35,480 Speaker 2: enjoy it. 295 00:18:36,800 --> 00:18:39,800 Speaker 3: Well, you were speaking about the transformative nature of art, 296 00:18:39,800 --> 00:18:42,840 Speaker 3: and I'm sitting here thinking to myself, I'm experiencing that 297 00:18:42,960 --> 00:18:48,400 Speaker 3: right now because I've operated under this misconception about Russia 298 00:18:48,480 --> 00:18:52,760 Speaker 3: that it is kind of this cold, soulis nation. But 299 00:18:53,040 --> 00:18:56,800 Speaker 3: I'm primarily basing that off of the actions of some 300 00:18:56,920 --> 00:19:00,239 Speaker 3: of the members of government that we've seen that are, 301 00:19:00,280 --> 00:19:03,320 Speaker 3: you know, quite questionable actions that we've seen in recent years. 302 00:19:03,800 --> 00:19:07,880 Speaker 3: But just because a government feels soulless, it doesn't mean 303 00:19:07,920 --> 00:19:11,760 Speaker 3: that the people are soulless. And you've done so much 304 00:19:11,960 --> 00:19:15,160 Speaker 3: justice and brought so much dignity to the artists in Russia, 305 00:19:15,480 --> 00:19:18,800 Speaker 3: as exemplified by the fact that you won the largest 306 00:19:18,840 --> 00:19:22,800 Speaker 3: annual literary prize in Russia awarded by the Leo Tolstoy Estate, 307 00:19:23,040 --> 00:19:25,240 Speaker 3: And we also have to share with our listeners that 308 00:19:25,280 --> 00:19:28,800 Speaker 3: you donated the entire prize money to the conservation of 309 00:19:28,840 --> 00:19:33,480 Speaker 3: Siberian tigers and the more leopards. What does this recognition 310 00:19:33,680 --> 00:19:36,439 Speaker 3: mean to you, not just this award, but in the 311 00:19:36,480 --> 00:19:40,760 Speaker 3: greater context of this idea that you are a steward 312 00:19:40,800 --> 00:19:42,000 Speaker 3: of Tolstoy's legacy. 313 00:19:42,520 --> 00:19:48,600 Speaker 2: It meant everything to me because he happens to be 314 00:19:49,640 --> 00:19:56,120 Speaker 2: my literary and humanitarian north star. I don't know if 315 00:19:56,119 --> 00:19:58,800 Speaker 2: you are aware of this, but Leo Tolstoy, of course, 316 00:19:59,000 --> 00:20:04,919 Speaker 2: was a vegetarian way ahead of his time, and I 317 00:20:05,040 --> 00:20:07,480 Speaker 2: have been a vegan since the age of nineteen. 318 00:20:08,160 --> 00:20:09,480 Speaker 5: And not only that, I. 319 00:20:09,600 --> 00:20:13,879 Speaker 2: Happened to have learned how to write from reading his novels, 320 00:20:14,200 --> 00:20:17,760 Speaker 2: like my path to being a novelist has been completely 321 00:20:17,800 --> 00:20:22,840 Speaker 2: self taught, and I would transcribe by hand passages from 322 00:20:22,880 --> 00:20:26,119 Speaker 2: Anna Karenina in order to understand, Oh, this is how 323 00:20:26,560 --> 00:20:30,960 Speaker 2: you write. So to be given this recognition by his 324 00:20:31,440 --> 00:20:36,359 Speaker 2: literary successors and his actual descendants was an honor that 325 00:20:36,680 --> 00:20:40,600 Speaker 2: I don't think I will ever receive again in my lifetime. 326 00:20:41,440 --> 00:20:46,440 Speaker 2: I also wanted to take that as an opportunity to 327 00:20:46,480 --> 00:20:49,720 Speaker 2: elevate the causes that I believe in, and I think 328 00:20:49,800 --> 00:20:56,000 Speaker 2: that I have done that with not just the donation 329 00:20:56,160 --> 00:20:59,280 Speaker 2: of the prize money, which I knew immediately that that 330 00:20:59,359 --> 00:21:00,679 Speaker 2: would have to happen. 331 00:21:01,080 --> 00:21:04,360 Speaker 5: But also how I've been able to speak. 332 00:21:04,080 --> 00:21:08,199 Speaker 2: About this issue in my award acceptance speech. And I 333 00:21:08,240 --> 00:21:11,400 Speaker 2: had to do this fairly carefully given the fact that I. 334 00:21:11,400 --> 00:21:12,200 Speaker 5: Was in Moscow. 335 00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:13,159 Speaker 2: You know. 336 00:21:13,720 --> 00:21:15,359 Speaker 5: I talked about. 337 00:21:15,240 --> 00:21:19,320 Speaker 2: The tigers and the leopards not recognizing man made boundaries, 338 00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:26,000 Speaker 2: that they and nature are innocent, and that inspires hope 339 00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:29,800 Speaker 2: in me and I see poetry in their resilience and innocence. 340 00:21:30,720 --> 00:21:33,840 Speaker 2: And I think you understand that all of this means 341 00:21:34,080 --> 00:21:37,359 Speaker 2: multiple things. It's not just about tigers and leopards that 342 00:21:37,400 --> 00:21:40,760 Speaker 2: I was speaking, and this speech was accepted really well. 343 00:21:41,160 --> 00:21:44,000 Speaker 2: You know, it's a real stance for peace, as much 344 00:21:44,000 --> 00:21:46,840 Speaker 2: as I am able to publicly in such a country. 345 00:21:47,560 --> 00:21:52,000 Speaker 2: And these animals are so symbolic of what happens around 346 00:21:52,000 --> 00:21:55,640 Speaker 2: the world, which is that when wars happen, when man 347 00:21:55,720 --> 00:22:00,840 Speaker 2: made conflicts happen, there are innocent people and animals who suffer, 348 00:22:01,119 --> 00:22:05,320 Speaker 2: and that's not something that can be reversed when the 349 00:22:05,359 --> 00:22:08,600 Speaker 2: war is over. The time to act is actually now 350 00:22:08,680 --> 00:22:16,240 Speaker 2: and continuously so leopards, especially with about seventy individuals remaining 351 00:22:16,280 --> 00:22:20,639 Speaker 2: in the wild and their genetic diversity is just really 352 00:22:20,680 --> 00:22:23,480 Speaker 2: low at this point in the wild, they need our 353 00:22:23,520 --> 00:22:27,560 Speaker 2: attention now despite the fact that there are wars raging, 354 00:22:27,960 --> 00:22:31,600 Speaker 2: because when the war quiets, that we will have realized that, oh, 355 00:22:31,720 --> 00:22:37,000 Speaker 2: the leopards died away decades ago. So I feel really 356 00:22:37,119 --> 00:22:43,000 Speaker 2: proud of being an ambassador for these voiceless animals and 357 00:22:43,080 --> 00:22:46,119 Speaker 2: telling people that yes, you may not like the fact 358 00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:50,760 Speaker 2: that I am speaking to civilians of a country that 359 00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:55,800 Speaker 2: waged war, but you have to believe that this is necessary. 360 00:22:56,200 --> 00:23:00,640 Speaker 2: These are scientists and conservationists, and by keeping this bridge open, 361 00:23:00,920 --> 00:23:04,680 Speaker 2: we're able to protect these animals and also understand each 362 00:23:04,680 --> 00:23:07,720 Speaker 2: other better and hopefully call for peace better. 363 00:23:10,920 --> 00:23:12,439 Speaker 3: We've got to take a quick break, but we'll be 364 00:23:12,520 --> 00:23:17,240 Speaker 3: right back with author do Hakim. 365 00:23:21,440 --> 00:23:24,480 Speaker 4: And we're back with do hakimju. 366 00:23:23,520 --> 00:23:26,600 Speaker 1: Hey, we've been talking so much about your beautiful prose. 367 00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:29,240 Speaker 1: I think it's time to let our listeners hear some 368 00:23:29,359 --> 00:23:31,960 Speaker 1: of it. Will you read a passage of City of 369 00:23:32,040 --> 00:23:34,400 Speaker 1: Night Birds for us with pleasure. 370 00:23:35,160 --> 00:23:38,760 Speaker 2: I will read from the prologue, which is called overture 371 00:23:39,040 --> 00:23:39,800 Speaker 2: in this book. 372 00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:42,720 Speaker 5: So this is towards the very beginning. 373 00:23:42,880 --> 00:23:46,919 Speaker 2: At this point we have met Natasha Leonova, who is 374 00:23:47,560 --> 00:23:52,880 Speaker 2: a prima ballerina, returning to her hometown of Saint Petersburg, 375 00:23:53,520 --> 00:23:58,040 Speaker 2: and it's clear that she's been injured gravely and she 376 00:23:58,119 --> 00:24:04,440 Speaker 2: seems unmoored. And in this passage, she is just walking 377 00:24:04,480 --> 00:24:08,399 Speaker 2: around in Saint Petersburg during the white Nights, which is 378 00:24:08,600 --> 00:24:11,720 Speaker 2: appear a time in the summer when. 379 00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:15,440 Speaker 5: The sunset's really late. So here I begin. 380 00:24:17,640 --> 00:24:20,400 Speaker 2: I wander off to the summer garden and walk under 381 00:24:20,440 --> 00:24:24,440 Speaker 2: the linden trees in bloom. Their nectar is so intoxicating 382 00:24:24,520 --> 00:24:28,719 Speaker 2: that with one sip bees dropped to the ground. I 383 00:24:28,720 --> 00:24:32,159 Speaker 2: stop when I reach a gallery of Greek sculptures. I 384 00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:35,000 Speaker 2: sit on one of the green benches between the statues 385 00:24:35,160 --> 00:24:38,919 Speaker 2: and watch the sky turn from cobalt to violet and 386 00:24:39,040 --> 00:24:44,280 Speaker 2: rose gold. The twilight will last until sunrise. There is 387 00:24:44,320 --> 00:24:47,040 Speaker 2: no place other than Saint Petersburg in the summer where 388 00:24:47,080 --> 00:24:47,920 Speaker 2: I felt. 389 00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:48,879 Speaker 5: This slowing of time. 390 00:24:49,800 --> 00:24:53,800 Speaker 2: Instead of the past, present, and future all flowing in 391 00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:58,359 Speaker 2: order like train cars, they fold translucently into one another, 392 00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:03,679 Speaker 2: and many years ago feels as close and real as yesterday, tomorrow, 393 00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:08,359 Speaker 2: as distant as years from now, as if my thoughts 394 00:25:08,359 --> 00:25:12,240 Speaker 2: have opened a portal. I see him between the white statues, 395 00:25:13,040 --> 00:25:16,240 Speaker 2: perhaps a phantom or a piece of my imagination that 396 00:25:16,320 --> 00:25:20,080 Speaker 2: has escaped like a moth into the night air. I 397 00:25:20,160 --> 00:25:23,439 Speaker 2: grick the armrest of the green bench, but he begins 398 00:25:23,480 --> 00:25:26,639 Speaker 2: walking towards me, and his quality of movement lets me 399 00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:27,560 Speaker 2: know he is real. 400 00:25:28,640 --> 00:25:31,560 Speaker 5: By God, there have been only a few humans who 401 00:25:31,560 --> 00:25:37,920 Speaker 5: could look soul alive. He darkens, lightens, darkens, lightens as 402 00:25:37,920 --> 00:25:43,919 Speaker 5: he passes through the shadows of the statues. Darkens, lightens again, 403 00:25:44,520 --> 00:25:49,280 Speaker 5: revealing his arched eyebrows, black hair, flashing green eyes that 404 00:25:49,359 --> 00:25:53,800 Speaker 5: can raige or laugh without saying anything. The great Dmitriostrovsky 405 00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:58,199 Speaker 5: to his fans, Dima to his friends, Dmitrian Anatolievitch to 406 00:25:58,240 --> 00:26:03,199 Speaker 5: his company members. But to me, he is Janus, my 407 00:26:03,320 --> 00:26:06,520 Speaker 5: two faced downfall, and the only person in the world 408 00:26:06,560 --> 00:26:10,200 Speaker 5: I would not hesitate to call my enemy. We maintain 409 00:26:10,359 --> 00:26:15,800 Speaker 5: eye contact until he stops abruptly in front of my bench. Natasha, 410 00:26:16,320 --> 00:26:19,119 Speaker 5: he says, with a nod, as if we were the 411 00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:23,240 Speaker 5: most natural thing that we have run into each other. Dmitri, 412 00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:25,919 Speaker 5: I level my voice so as not to give him 413 00:26:25,960 --> 00:26:29,080 Speaker 5: the satisfaction of anerving me. What are you doing here? 414 00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:33,359 Speaker 5: What a way to greet an old acha? 415 00:26:33,520 --> 00:26:34,120 Speaker 4: He laughs. 416 00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:36,919 Speaker 5: Whatever you want to call me, may I. 417 00:26:37,920 --> 00:26:40,520 Speaker 2: He gestures at the spot next to me and sits 418 00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:44,520 Speaker 2: down without waiting for my answer. Welcome back to Peter, 419 00:26:44,760 --> 00:26:48,040 Speaker 2: he says, stretching his legs out before him and prossing 420 00:26:48,080 --> 00:26:52,200 Speaker 2: them at the ankles. Let us dispense with the niceties, 421 00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:54,879 Speaker 2: I say, and he smiles. 422 00:26:55,359 --> 00:26:56,120 Speaker 4: I could never. 423 00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:59,280 Speaker 2: Understand why you hate me, so Dmitri looks out at 424 00:26:59,280 --> 00:27:03,560 Speaker 2: the statue shaking his head in an exaggerated show of regret. 425 00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:07,639 Speaker 2: The frown disappears in a moment, restoring the smooth planes 426 00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:11,600 Speaker 2: of his face. He hasn't changed much since our last meeting. 427 00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:15,280 Speaker 2: I remember the light filtering through the flute of Champagne 428 00:27:15,320 --> 00:27:18,679 Speaker 2: in his hand. At our bar off Passe Boges. I 429 00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:22,199 Speaker 2: can hear the moonlight rushing through the four fountains and 430 00:27:22,280 --> 00:27:26,920 Speaker 2: dropping like silver spoons into the basin. Our friends murmured 431 00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:33,479 Speaker 2: toasts in French and Russian Sante Budham. That night was 432 00:27:33,640 --> 00:27:36,800 Speaker 2: just before my accident, and then I realized with the 433 00:27:36,840 --> 00:27:40,320 Speaker 2: start that Dmitri might be the same. But I've lost 434 00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:41,760 Speaker 2: everything since then. 435 00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:46,119 Speaker 4: Thank you, ju hey, thank you so much. 436 00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:49,679 Speaker 1: You are such a worldly writer, and I know that 437 00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:53,879 Speaker 1: your books have resonated with an international audience. So we 438 00:27:53,960 --> 00:27:56,520 Speaker 1: have actually something very exciting for the first time ever. 439 00:27:56,600 --> 00:27:59,719 Speaker 1: On the bright side, we have a listener question all 440 00:27:59,720 --> 00:28:02,840 Speaker 1: the way from England. Ella wants to know how you 441 00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:06,399 Speaker 1: make your settings feel so lived in. Hi do you? 442 00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:06,680 Speaker 2: Hey? 443 00:28:06,760 --> 00:28:09,040 Speaker 6: I'm Ella and I'm a book reviewer from England. I'm 444 00:28:09,080 --> 00:28:11,480 Speaker 6: a big fan. I recently read Beasts of a Little 445 00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:13,360 Speaker 6: Land and I loved it so much. That I immediately 446 00:28:13,400 --> 00:28:15,560 Speaker 6: wanted to read more by you, which when I was 447 00:28:15,640 --> 00:28:17,960 Speaker 6: completely gutted when I found out The City of Nightbirds 448 00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:21,000 Speaker 6: isn't being published in the UK until next year. Luckily 449 00:28:21,119 --> 00:28:23,000 Speaker 6: I was able to beg and get my hands on 450 00:28:23,040 --> 00:28:26,280 Speaker 6: an advanced copy, which, of course I absolutely loved. Your 451 00:28:26,280 --> 00:28:28,760 Speaker 6: writing has actually even inspired me to book tickets to 452 00:28:28,920 --> 00:28:30,879 Speaker 6: go to a ballet for the first time in my life, 453 00:28:30,920 --> 00:28:33,680 Speaker 6: so thank you very much for that inspiration. I love 454 00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:35,800 Speaker 6: the way that you're able to bring characters and places 455 00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:39,000 Speaker 6: to life so vividly. Your first book was obviously set 456 00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:41,040 Speaker 6: in Korea, which is a place that is so connected 457 00:28:41,080 --> 00:28:43,880 Speaker 6: to your upbringing, whereas City of night Birds obviously mainly 458 00:28:43,920 --> 00:28:46,480 Speaker 6: takes place in Russia, which is a country that you've 459 00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:49,040 Speaker 6: not lived in. But in both books, you really make 460 00:28:49,080 --> 00:28:51,280 Speaker 6: your readers feel as so they're walking through the streets 461 00:28:51,280 --> 00:28:54,280 Speaker 6: of these places, which is so beautiful to read. So 462 00:28:54,560 --> 00:28:57,440 Speaker 6: I'm curious how your approach to writing differed, If it 463 00:28:57,480 --> 00:28:59,800 Speaker 6: differed when it came to writing about a country and 464 00:28:59,840 --> 00:29:02,160 Speaker 6: a culture that you are familiar with versus one that 465 00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:03,760 Speaker 6: you're perhaps less connected to. 466 00:29:04,480 --> 00:29:08,000 Speaker 2: You know, recently I heard from a reader from the 467 00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:11,280 Speaker 2: far East of Russia, and she had read the Russian 468 00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:14,640 Speaker 2: edition of Beasts offul Little Land, my debut novel, and 469 00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:19,360 Speaker 2: she said, how did you know exactly how it snows 470 00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:24,160 Speaker 2: in the far east of Russia? Because I wrote in 471 00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:27,920 Speaker 2: one of the passages that the snow fell as if 472 00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:31,160 Speaker 2: a giant salt cellar had been tipped from the sky. 473 00:29:31,760 --> 00:29:35,400 Speaker 2: It was that type of fine dry powder, and I 474 00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:36,040 Speaker 2: didn't know. 475 00:29:36,280 --> 00:29:37,680 Speaker 5: I actually had no idea. 476 00:29:37,840 --> 00:29:40,320 Speaker 2: It's not like I could do research on that, but 477 00:29:40,600 --> 00:29:45,040 Speaker 2: I had previous experience that sometimes snow does feel that way, 478 00:29:45,120 --> 00:29:48,960 Speaker 2: and I just drew from my own personal experience with snow, 479 00:29:49,080 --> 00:29:53,200 Speaker 2: and it just so turned out that this reader from 480 00:29:53,360 --> 00:29:58,320 Speaker 2: Vladivostok region had also seen snow that way. So what 481 00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:02,800 Speaker 2: I do is draw from my own life experience, and 482 00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:06,880 Speaker 2: sometimes it happens that the reader can fill in the 483 00:30:06,920 --> 00:30:11,840 Speaker 2: blanks and use their imagination. With this novel, I think 484 00:30:11,880 --> 00:30:15,760 Speaker 2: I had to rely more on my imagination than normal, 485 00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:19,320 Speaker 2: because I, you know, I had nothing really from personal 486 00:30:19,320 --> 00:30:25,400 Speaker 2: experience to go off. But I knew that a lot 487 00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:31,600 Speaker 2: of things I experienced through sensorial detail. And I have 488 00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:36,760 Speaker 2: always been a censorial writer. I don't have seen esthesia, 489 00:30:36,960 --> 00:30:40,920 Speaker 2: but I am probably quite close to having seen aesthesia, 490 00:30:41,080 --> 00:30:44,960 Speaker 2: which is experiencing different senses at the same time. 491 00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:46,400 Speaker 4: You know, for. 492 00:30:46,360 --> 00:30:50,520 Speaker 2: Example, Natasha has this experience early on in the book 493 00:30:50,560 --> 00:30:56,040 Speaker 2: where she hears music when she enters Waganova that she 494 00:30:56,120 --> 00:30:59,200 Speaker 2: has only heard once before, and it's as though she 495 00:30:59,360 --> 00:31:02,280 Speaker 2: is seeing and hearing things that are not there, and 496 00:31:02,360 --> 00:31:04,680 Speaker 2: that is a premonition to her. I had a very 497 00:31:04,760 --> 00:31:08,280 Speaker 2: similar experience when I was taking the. 498 00:31:08,360 --> 00:31:10,320 Speaker 5: SATs when I was seventeen years. 499 00:31:10,160 --> 00:31:16,200 Speaker 2: Old, and I was hearing Taikowsky's Symphony Number five, and 500 00:31:16,640 --> 00:31:19,959 Speaker 2: I could see all the answers as if a spotlight 501 00:31:20,080 --> 00:31:23,120 Speaker 2: had been cast on all the right answers. So I 502 00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:25,479 Speaker 2: was just looking at all the correct answers and just 503 00:31:25,480 --> 00:31:31,200 Speaker 2: filling in the planks. And this type of sensorial knowledge 504 00:31:31,720 --> 00:31:36,640 Speaker 2: is very useful when you're trying to illustrate settings, because 505 00:31:37,200 --> 00:31:40,680 Speaker 2: not only are you relying on what's actually there, but 506 00:31:40,760 --> 00:31:44,520 Speaker 2: you're connecting with the smells, the colors, the sounds, the light, 507 00:31:45,280 --> 00:31:48,160 Speaker 2: and these are all the things that I see in 508 00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:49,360 Speaker 2: my mind's. 509 00:31:48,960 --> 00:31:51,760 Speaker 5: Eye while I am drawing in that environment. 510 00:31:51,920 --> 00:31:55,040 Speaker 2: So you know, some of it is completely luck and 511 00:31:55,080 --> 00:31:58,840 Speaker 2: some of it is I think my attention to different senses. 512 00:31:59,040 --> 00:32:01,280 Speaker 2: The music that I here when I am drawing a 513 00:32:01,320 --> 00:32:06,160 Speaker 2: certain scene, and I really appreciate you saying that it 514 00:32:06,200 --> 00:32:08,760 Speaker 2: feels real to you, because it felt really real to 515 00:32:08,800 --> 00:32:10,800 Speaker 2: me when I was writing it too, And that's the 516 00:32:10,840 --> 00:32:14,240 Speaker 2: only chance you have at making the reader see what 517 00:32:14,320 --> 00:32:17,320 Speaker 2: you see. If it feels real to the writer, it 518 00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:18,959 Speaker 2: will feel real to the reader. 519 00:32:19,600 --> 00:32:21,040 Speaker 5: I have one last question for you. 520 00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:25,880 Speaker 1: When I think of ballet, I of course think of discipline, 521 00:32:25,880 --> 00:32:30,000 Speaker 1: but when I've seen it sort of portrayed in film, 522 00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:33,560 Speaker 1: it seems that it's often a metaphor for human resilience. 523 00:32:35,160 --> 00:32:39,360 Speaker 1: If readers take away one lasting feeling or lesson from 524 00:32:39,480 --> 00:32:41,560 Speaker 1: City of night Birds, what do you hope it'll be? 525 00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:45,160 Speaker 5: Oh gosh, that's such a hard one, And it's the 526 00:32:45,240 --> 00:32:46,240 Speaker 5: last question. 527 00:32:47,480 --> 00:32:47,640 Speaker 1: This. 528 00:32:48,680 --> 00:32:52,560 Speaker 2: I usually have a habit of embedding my final message 529 00:32:52,600 --> 00:32:55,239 Speaker 2: into the last sentence of the novel. I did it 530 00:32:55,280 --> 00:32:57,240 Speaker 2: for my first novel, and I did it for the 531 00:32:57,280 --> 00:33:00,320 Speaker 2: second one. And if you are patient enough to follow 532 00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:04,040 Speaker 2: through with Natasha's journey and reach the last page, I 533 00:33:04,080 --> 00:33:07,160 Speaker 2: think you will understand what it is I. 534 00:33:07,120 --> 00:33:08,000 Speaker 5: Am trying to say. 535 00:33:08,920 --> 00:33:12,320 Speaker 2: The book is a kind of a debate between the 536 00:33:12,360 --> 00:33:18,160 Speaker 2: premissy of art versus human life, and actually the book 537 00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:23,120 Speaker 2: argues in both ways, so is it art for art's sake? 538 00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:27,640 Speaker 2: Or is it art for humanity's sake? And you will 539 00:33:27,640 --> 00:33:31,680 Speaker 2: see that the narrative argues both sides. 540 00:33:31,800 --> 00:33:33,880 Speaker 5: But maybe in the final page you. 541 00:33:33,880 --> 00:33:37,840 Speaker 2: Will get a sense of what is truly truly important 542 00:33:38,840 --> 00:33:40,080 Speaker 2: and what serves the other. 543 00:33:40,920 --> 00:33:44,640 Speaker 5: So yeah, I think that you will just have to 544 00:33:44,680 --> 00:33:45,440 Speaker 5: read to find out. 545 00:33:49,760 --> 00:33:53,680 Speaker 1: Juey, thank you so much for joining us today and 546 00:33:53,720 --> 00:33:58,840 Speaker 1: sharing so much of your of your inspiration with us. 547 00:33:59,560 --> 00:34:01,160 Speaker 5: Thank you so much for having me. 548 00:34:01,320 --> 00:34:04,360 Speaker 2: It was my absolute pleasure and honor to be on 549 00:34:04,400 --> 00:34:08,360 Speaker 2: this podcast, and this is something that I'm gonna remember 550 00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:11,840 Speaker 2: as one of the highlights of my career being a 551 00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:16,680 Speaker 2: Reese's book Club author and speaking to you on this podcast. 552 00:34:17,000 --> 00:34:17,440 Speaker 5: Thank you. 553 00:34:17,840 --> 00:34:19,000 Speaker 4: It's incredibly kind. 554 00:34:19,160 --> 00:34:21,440 Speaker 1: Thank you for sharing your moment with us. 555 00:34:21,400 --> 00:34:22,960 Speaker 4: And it is so well deserved. 556 00:34:26,760 --> 00:34:28,600 Speaker 3: Juw hay Kim is the author of City of night 557 00:34:28,640 --> 00:34:31,600 Speaker 3: Birds and the December Reese's book Club Pick. It's available 558 00:34:31,600 --> 00:34:32,680 Speaker 3: wherever you get your books. 559 00:34:32,800 --> 00:34:36,520 Speaker 1: Now, that's it for today's show. Tomorrow, we're popping off 560 00:34:36,520 --> 00:34:39,720 Speaker 1: about last minute gifts with People Magazines Beauty and Style 561 00:34:39,760 --> 00:34:41,360 Speaker 1: director Andrea Labenthal. 562 00:34:41,719 --> 00:34:42,640 Speaker 4: You don't want to miss it. 563 00:34:43,719 --> 00:34:47,280 Speaker 3: Join the conversation using hashtag the bright Side and connect 564 00:34:47,280 --> 00:34:50,520 Speaker 3: with us on social media at Hello Sunshine on Instagram 565 00:34:50,560 --> 00:34:53,719 Speaker 3: and at the bright Side Pod on TikTok oh, and 566 00:34:53,760 --> 00:34:56,359 Speaker 3: feel free to tag us at Simone Voice and at 567 00:34:56,440 --> 00:34:57,440 Speaker 3: Danielle Robe. 568 00:34:57,719 --> 00:35:00,640 Speaker 1: Listen and follow The bright Side on the iHeart Radio app, 569 00:35:00,719 --> 00:35:03,360 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. 570 00:35:03,680 --> 00:35:06,160 Speaker 4: See you tomorrow, folks, Keep looking on the bright side.