WEBVTT - Session 462: Going No Contact 0:00:10.840 --> 0:00:14.480 Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast, a weekly 0:00:14.560 --> 0:00:19.320 conversation about mental health, personal development, and all the small 0:00:19.360 --> 0:00:22.480 decisions we can make to become the best possible versions 0:00:22.520 --> 0:00:26.600 of ourselves. I'm your host, doctor Joy hard and Bradford, 0:00:27.000 --> 0:00:32.080 a licensed psychologist in Atlanta, Georgia. For more information or 0:00:32.200 --> 0:00:35.600 to find a therapist in your area, visit our website 0:00:35.720 --> 0:00:39.440 at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com. While I hope you 0:00:39.479 --> 0:00:43.479 love listening to and learning from the podcast, it is 0:00:43.520 --> 0:00:46.400 not meant to be a substitute for a relationship with 0:00:46.479 --> 0:00:57.200 a licensed mental health professional. Hey, y'all, thanks so much 0:00:57.200 --> 0:00:59.480 for joining me from session four sixty two or the 0:00:59.480 --> 0:01:02.440 Therapy for Black Girls Podcast. We'll get right into our 0:01:02.480 --> 0:01:15.759 conversation after word from our sponsors. In this episode, I'm 0:01:15.840 --> 0:01:19.160 joined by licensed psychotherapist doctor Natalie Jones for a thoughtful 0:01:19.160 --> 0:01:21.959 conversation about what it really means to go no contact 0:01:21.959 --> 0:01:24.560 with people in your life who may be causing harm. 0:01:24.760 --> 0:01:29.080 Doctor Jones brings deep expertise in trauma, boundaries and emotional wellness, 0:01:29.400 --> 0:01:31.360 and she shares from both her clinical work and her 0:01:31.400 --> 0:01:35.560 passion for helping people build healthier relationships. In this conversation, 0:01:35.680 --> 0:01:39.200 we talk about how complicated this decision can feel, especially 0:01:39.240 --> 0:01:42.120 within families and tight knit communities, and why more of 0:01:42.200 --> 0:01:44.880 us are finding ourselves considering distance as an act of 0:01:44.880 --> 0:01:49.200 self preservation as conversations about boundaries and generational healing continue 0:01:49.240 --> 0:01:52.560 to grow. This feels like such a timely and necessary discussion, 0:01:52.920 --> 0:01:55.600 and I hope it offers you both clarity and reassurance 0:01:55.600 --> 0:01:58.560 if this is something you've been wrestling with. If something 0:01:58.600 --> 0:02:01.880 resonates with you while enjoying our conversation, please share with 0:02:01.960 --> 0:02:05.120 us on social media using the hashtag TVG in session, 0:02:05.800 --> 0:02:08.079 or join us over and our patreon to talk more 0:02:08.080 --> 0:02:10.680 about the episode. You can join us at community do 0:02:10.800 --> 0:02:14.679 therapyfro Blackgirls dot com. But first, we are desperately in 0:02:14.800 --> 0:02:18.079 need of an emergency pop culture check in a lot, 0:02:18.440 --> 0:02:21.120 maybe even too much has occurred. And as a therapist 0:02:21.160 --> 0:02:24.320 but also someone who appreciates and loves pop culture, it 0:02:24.320 --> 0:02:26.320 wouldn't be me if I didn't dig into the mental 0:02:26.360 --> 0:02:29.200 health aspect of all of this. Here's our conversation. 0:02:34.000 --> 0:02:37.560 Hey, doctor Joy, I'm excited to be in conversation with 0:02:37.639 --> 0:02:41.079 you for our second pop culture segment here on the podcast. 0:02:41.600 --> 0:02:43.720 For those of you just joining us, this is a 0:02:43.760 --> 0:02:47.600 newer segment we're building out. We're taking moments from pop culture, 0:02:47.720 --> 0:02:52.240 what everyone's watching, talking about, maybe even debating, and using 0:02:52.280 --> 0:02:55.239 them as a starting point to think a little deeper 0:02:55.320 --> 0:02:58.239 about our mental health. So I'll bring in a few 0:02:58.240 --> 0:03:01.240 stories and doctor Joy will help us make sense of 0:03:01.280 --> 0:03:04.560 what's underneath them, what they might reveal about how we're 0:03:04.600 --> 0:03:08.000 relating to ourselves, to each other, into the world around us. 0:03:08.080 --> 0:03:09.280 Are you ready to get into it? 0:03:09.800 --> 0:03:11.360 I'm ready, Okay. 0:03:11.480 --> 0:03:15.679 So the first story of the week is Spirit Airlines 0:03:15.880 --> 0:03:17.520 shut down, and we're going to talk a little bit 0:03:17.560 --> 0:03:21.400 about accessibility to travel. So you guys may or may 0:03:21.440 --> 0:03:25.800 not know. Spirit Airlines abruptly shut down operations this weekend. 0:03:25.840 --> 0:03:30.680 After years of financial struggles, failed bailout efforts, and rising 0:03:30.760 --> 0:03:34.800 fuel costs. The airline, long known for ultra low fares, 0:03:34.840 --> 0:03:39.160 canceled all flights and shuttered its operations, leaving travelers stranded 0:03:39.200 --> 0:03:42.839 and driving up prices across the industry and for many, 0:03:43.080 --> 0:03:46.400 especially budget conscious travelers, Spirit was one of the few 0:03:46.480 --> 0:03:50.880 accessible options for air travel. So, you know, I've been 0:03:50.920 --> 0:03:55.720 thinking about what happens when affordability disappears from essential experiences 0:03:55.800 --> 0:03:59.320 like travel, and I'm curious, what are the mental health 0:03:59.360 --> 0:04:03.640 implications of feeling like certain experiences like a vacation or 0:04:03.760 --> 0:04:06.480 visiting family are no longer accessible to you. 0:04:06.800 --> 0:04:08.960 So first, at least, I really appreciate this question, right, 0:04:08.960 --> 0:04:11.680 because I think that it is the perfect example of 0:04:11.840 --> 0:04:15.240 something that you wouldn't necessarily think about having a mental 0:04:15.280 --> 0:04:19.160 health impact, but it actually does. Right when you think 0:04:19.200 --> 0:04:22.200 about like being excluded, that's the first thing I think about, 0:04:22.360 --> 0:04:25.920 is like being excluded from things that most people want 0:04:25.960 --> 0:04:29.400 to participate in. And I think it really highlights this 0:04:29.560 --> 0:04:32.920 othering that we find just across the board and lots 0:04:32.960 --> 0:04:36.080 of different categories and makes people feel like these are 0:04:36.120 --> 0:04:38.800 not things that are for me. So when you think 0:04:38.800 --> 0:04:41.520 about like class trips, right, Like class trips when I 0:04:41.640 --> 0:04:43.240 was in school used to just be kind of like 0:04:43.279 --> 0:04:47.200 to our local park or somewhere drivable, and now kids 0:04:47.240 --> 0:04:50.800 are kind of sometimes expected to fly to DC for 0:04:50.880 --> 0:04:53.039 a trip or you know, go to different places. And 0:04:53.080 --> 0:04:55.640 so when you think about even those kinds of things 0:04:55.640 --> 0:04:58.360 are impacted, and I think the mental health impact makes 0:04:58.360 --> 0:05:01.560 it so that people feel less. It makes it feel 0:05:01.720 --> 0:05:04.159 as though there are things that are not meant for me, 0:05:04.279 --> 0:05:06.160 and I think that that can cause a real hit 0:05:06.240 --> 0:05:11.200 to self esteem. It can really impact feelings of worthiness. 0:05:11.560 --> 0:05:13.640 I also think one of the things I was struck 0:05:13.680 --> 0:05:17.160 by related to this story was the abrupt nature, because 0:05:17.200 --> 0:05:19.880 it felt like we've heard rumblings about it and then 0:05:19.920 --> 0:05:22.000 by the end of the week it was completely done. 0:05:22.560 --> 0:05:25.640 And so I think business is business, people kind of say, 0:05:25.680 --> 0:05:29.360 but I'm always really concerned about the mental health impact 0:05:29.400 --> 0:05:33.520 of people on the workforce. Right, So the flight attendants, 0:05:33.560 --> 0:05:36.280 the pilots, all of the people who are servicing the airplanes, 0:05:36.320 --> 0:05:40.360 like just abruptly now have been terminated and don't have 0:05:40.440 --> 0:05:43.599 gainful employment in that same way. And so I just 0:05:43.640 --> 0:05:45.960 hope that we can get to a place where businesses 0:05:46.080 --> 0:05:48.960 maybe are able to be a little more thoughtful, a 0:05:48.960 --> 0:05:52.960 little more intentional about the rollout of difficult news like this. 0:05:53.120 --> 0:05:55.400 You know, I do understand sometimes it can't be avoided, 0:05:55.400 --> 0:05:57.600 but I think that that's also a huge mental health 0:05:57.640 --> 0:05:59.159 impact of this story. 0:05:59.480 --> 0:06:02.359 Oh, of course worse, I think across industries, when we 0:06:02.400 --> 0:06:05.839 see people get laid off so abruptly, it is jarring. 0:06:05.880 --> 0:06:08.480 You don't have the time to plan or to think 0:06:08.520 --> 0:06:10.839 about what your next move is. You have to scatter 0:06:11.080 --> 0:06:13.160 to figure it out. I have a bit of a 0:06:13.200 --> 0:06:15.839 follow up for you when we see the gap between 0:06:15.880 --> 0:06:19.839 the have and the have nots widening, and these experiences 0:06:19.880 --> 0:06:22.719 that are supposed to provide connection for people feeling like 0:06:22.760 --> 0:06:27.720 they're unaffordable. How can we still find connection? How can 0:06:27.760 --> 0:06:31.240 we You might not have answers about how can we 0:06:31.279 --> 0:06:34.360 still travel? But how can we still find connection when 0:06:34.400 --> 0:06:35.839 some of it feels out of reach? 0:06:36.520 --> 0:06:36.760 Yeah? 0:06:36.839 --> 0:06:38.520 You know, I mean I think it is easy to 0:06:38.600 --> 0:06:40.120 kind of think about, like, oh, let's just plan a 0:06:40.120 --> 0:06:42.680 girls trip, but a girl strip doesn't necessarily have to 0:06:42.760 --> 0:06:45.359 involve air travel, right, So I think it could be 0:06:45.440 --> 0:06:48.240 something where you do road trips together or look at 0:06:48.279 --> 0:06:50.880 other ways to be intentional about connecting. You know. I 0:06:50.880 --> 0:06:52.440 know one of the things that I talk about a 0:06:52.440 --> 0:06:57.120 lot is like old adult sleepovers or pedomal parties where 0:06:57.160 --> 0:06:59.719 maybe you're in a hotel or an airbnb or even 0:06:59.760 --> 0:07:01.599 in some one's home and just kind of have old 0:07:01.640 --> 0:07:05.760 fashioned sleepovers, which I think are missed art for adults. 0:07:06.000 --> 0:07:08.679 So things like that are adult field days I'm also 0:07:08.760 --> 0:07:11.240 a big proponent of, and so I think it really 0:07:11.320 --> 0:07:14.640 just forces us to be more creative about the ways 0:07:14.680 --> 0:07:16.680 that we can connect and making sure that when we 0:07:16.720 --> 0:07:19.480 are thinking about ways to bring people together. We are 0:07:19.520 --> 0:07:22.880 not excluding now based on this idea that an air 0:07:22.920 --> 0:07:25.680 travel may not be as easy as it was before 0:07:26.240 --> 0:07:29.120 Spirit closed down. And even then, you know, like prices 0:07:29.160 --> 0:07:32.160 have gone up across airlines, right, And so I think 0:07:32.200 --> 0:07:34.200 even beyond this news, I think it is important for 0:07:34.280 --> 0:07:36.920 us to just be much more intentional about looking at 0:07:36.920 --> 0:07:39.800 different ways to connect that kind of meet all different 0:07:39.880 --> 0:07:40.720 income levels. 0:07:40.840 --> 0:07:43.120 Thank you for that. So next we're going to get 0:07:43.120 --> 0:07:49.000 into Nick Cannon's dating double standard. So Nick Cannon recently 0:07:49.000 --> 0:07:52.160 appeared on the TMZ podcast and admitted to having a 0:07:52.160 --> 0:07:55.000 double standard when it comes to his fifteen year old twins. 0:07:55.440 --> 0:07:57.800 He said that his son Moroccan is allowed to date, 0:07:57.840 --> 0:08:00.760 while his twin sister Monroe is not. He says there 0:08:00.760 --> 0:08:02.720 are things out there that I have to protect my 0:08:02.880 --> 0:08:07.320 daughter from. This has sparked conversations around gender norms, protection, 0:08:07.640 --> 0:08:11.880 parenting differences when it comes to boys and girls. And 0:08:11.920 --> 0:08:13.760 I think the core tension in here is what does 0:08:13.840 --> 0:08:17.520 protecting daughters become limiting to their autonomy? And I feel 0:08:17.520 --> 0:08:20.640 like in so many Black families, girls are more tightly 0:08:20.680 --> 0:08:24.000 controlled when it comes to dating and sexuality, while boys 0:08:24.040 --> 0:08:27.560 are given more freedom. How does this dynamic shape black 0:08:27.600 --> 0:08:31.560 girl's sense of autonomy, self trust, and relationship boundaries as 0:08:31.560 --> 0:08:32.240 they grow up. 0:08:32.880 --> 0:08:33.080 Woo. 0:08:33.800 --> 0:08:36.400 So I had not heard this story. I was holding 0:08:36.400 --> 0:08:39.040 my brother because you never know when Nick Cannon, like, 0:08:39.080 --> 0:08:41.040 what kind of story might be kind of hitting the 0:08:41.080 --> 0:08:43.800 handlines at this point. But this does feel like something 0:08:43.800 --> 0:08:47.520 that I think is sadly fairly common across families, This 0:08:47.600 --> 0:08:49.959 idea that like, boys are able to do certain things 0:08:50.040 --> 0:08:52.319 that girls are not. And I think you really hit 0:08:52.320 --> 0:08:54.880 the nail on the head, and that there are things 0:08:54.920 --> 0:08:58.520 that young people and children need to develop skills around 0:08:58.960 --> 0:09:02.280 regardless of gender in gender presentation, right, And so the 0:09:02.400 --> 0:09:05.120 idea that it's okay for his son todate, but not 0:09:05.200 --> 0:09:07.800 his girl his daughter to date, like, when is she 0:09:07.960 --> 0:09:09.880 actually going to be able to develop the kinds of 0:09:09.880 --> 0:09:12.400 skills she needs to become a young woman and an 0:09:12.440 --> 0:09:15.400 adult in this world. Now, you may make the argument 0:09:15.440 --> 0:09:18.920 that fifteen feels too young that I'm willing to debate, 0:09:19.280 --> 0:09:21.000 but if it is okay for your son, then it 0:09:21.040 --> 0:09:23.840 also should be okay for your daughter. And then it 0:09:23.880 --> 0:09:25.880 makes me think what kinds of things are does she 0:09:25.920 --> 0:09:27.760 needs to be protected from? And are you having those 0:09:27.800 --> 0:09:30.520 conversations with your son, right, because in theory, that's what 0:09:30.559 --> 0:09:32.680 you're thinking, like, oh, you know, I'm not sure what 0:09:32.800 --> 0:09:34.760 the guys are gonna do, and you know, like, so 0:09:35.240 --> 0:09:37.800 what kinds of conversations are you actually having with your 0:09:37.920 --> 0:09:40.960 son so that other people's daughters, that is, who they 0:09:40.960 --> 0:09:44.040 are dating, don't need protecting from. And I do think 0:09:44.120 --> 0:09:47.040 it really limits the ability for, like I said, like 0:09:47.080 --> 0:09:49.400 young women and young girls to develop the kinds of 0:09:49.400 --> 0:09:52.360 skills that are necessary. We actually just had a conversation 0:09:52.480 --> 0:09:55.760 in our Patrion community recently. A community member submitted a 0:09:55.800 --> 0:09:58.640 question about so much of our lives as women, we 0:09:58.679 --> 0:10:00.520 are taught to kind of go to school, we'll focus 0:10:00.600 --> 0:10:03.280 on education, kind of be all about the books and 0:10:03.360 --> 0:10:06.120 career stuff, and then at some point when our mid 0:10:06.160 --> 0:10:09.440 twenties or so, family starts then asking all these questions 0:10:09.480 --> 0:10:11.400 about local what are you gonna settle down, and where 0:10:11.400 --> 0:10:13.719 you're gonna have kids and all these things, and it's like, well, 0:10:13.840 --> 0:10:16.640 all my life you've said go do this thing, right, 0:10:16.679 --> 0:10:19.800 and so when was I developing the skills to actually 0:10:19.800 --> 0:10:22.120 be successful in relationships? And I think that this is 0:10:22.160 --> 0:10:25.000 a part of that conversation as well. I do think 0:10:25.040 --> 0:10:28.000 we have to get more expansive in our ideas about 0:10:28.320 --> 0:10:31.280 what it looks like for young people to develop relationship skills, 0:10:31.320 --> 0:10:34.960 because we can't just think that at twenty something, everybody 0:10:35.040 --> 0:10:38.480 knows the answer is about how to manage conflict and 0:10:38.480 --> 0:10:40.360 how to stand up for yourself, how to be assertive, 0:10:40.360 --> 0:10:42.040 how do you make sure that your desires are a 0:10:42.080 --> 0:10:45.080 center if we've never let them practice that? And that 0:10:45.240 --> 0:10:48.560 is largely what you're doing in dating at fifteen, right, 0:10:48.600 --> 0:10:52.080 It's teaching young people to be in tune with what 0:10:52.160 --> 0:10:54.200 kinds of things they're interested in, how to stand up 0:10:54.240 --> 0:10:56.360 for themselves, how to set boundaries, like all of those 0:10:56.400 --> 0:10:58.360 things that are really important life skills. 0:10:58.600 --> 0:11:00.439 Thank you for that. And I have a question outside 0:11:00.480 --> 0:11:03.679 of the gender dynamic of it all, what happens when 0:11:03.720 --> 0:11:08.199 you just see your sibling be treated differently than you. 0:11:08.320 --> 0:11:11.120 Yeah, I'm sure that that has made for some very 0:11:11.200 --> 0:11:13.840 uncomfortable conversations in the house. And like you said, like, 0:11:13.880 --> 0:11:16.640 how are you even explaining that because there is no 0:11:16.720 --> 0:11:20.000 real logic in like, oh, your twin brother can do 0:11:20.120 --> 0:11:22.640 this and you can't, because you can't even then say 0:11:22.640 --> 0:11:24.640 it's about age, like oh, this is something that you'll 0:11:24.640 --> 0:11:27.240 get to do a little later, and so I think again, 0:11:27.320 --> 0:11:30.280 for young people, they don't always have the language or 0:11:30.280 --> 0:11:33.280 the understanding of like adults. Well most of the times 0:11:33.280 --> 0:11:36.480 they don't, And so I think sometimes it can mean like, well, 0:11:36.480 --> 0:11:39.079 what's wrong with me? Like why does this sibling get 0:11:39.120 --> 0:11:42.199 special treatment? I mean again, it can be an impact 0:11:42.240 --> 0:11:44.880 on self esteem or even feelings of worthiness, And so 0:11:44.920 --> 0:11:47.800 I think you have to be very careful, especially with twins, 0:11:47.840 --> 0:11:50.840 that there is not this like favoritism or behavior that 0:11:50.840 --> 0:11:52.760 one twin is allowed that the other one is not. 0:11:53.120 --> 0:11:56.800 Absolutely so for our third and final topic of the day, 0:11:57.240 --> 0:12:00.600 you couldn't have me asking questions on the first Monday 0:12:00.960 --> 0:12:05.360 in May or the hust and not talk about the Mechdala. 0:12:06.120 --> 0:12:10.360 So this past Monday, the Metropolitan Museum of Art hosted 0:12:10.440 --> 0:12:14.679 the twenty twenty six Metcala, officially launching the exhibit Costume Art. 0:12:15.000 --> 0:12:18.160 This year's theme explores fashion as a fine art form, 0:12:18.320 --> 0:12:22.079 specifically examining how garments have shaped and responded to the 0:12:22.160 --> 0:12:25.080 human body over the last five thousand years, and the 0:12:25.200 --> 0:12:28.040 dress code for the met Gala was Fashion is Art. 0:12:28.240 --> 0:12:31.880 When I think about how the average person interacts with 0:12:31.920 --> 0:12:34.320 the met Gala, I think a lot of people want 0:12:34.360 --> 0:12:38.120 to be more creative with their looks. They want the opportunity, 0:12:38.160 --> 0:12:41.800 whether it's a wedding or someone's milestone birthday, to have 0:12:41.880 --> 0:12:44.760 permission to dress up. And sometimes I do think there's 0:12:44.800 --> 0:12:47.600 this stigma or this idea that if you aren't famous, 0:12:47.600 --> 0:12:49.480 if you aren't going to a huge event, you're being 0:12:49.559 --> 0:12:52.400 too much if you dress up. And while the metala 0:12:52.480 --> 0:12:54.840 is cool to watch, I think it can make us 0:12:54.880 --> 0:12:57.880 feel like we're stuck in this rut. And for someone 0:12:57.960 --> 0:13:00.920 who wants to start dressing more creative but feels like 0:13:00.960 --> 0:13:03.560 their life is too normal for it, how do you 0:13:03.600 --> 0:13:06.960 get over the fear of being judged or being looked at, 0:13:07.200 --> 0:13:08.479 quote unquote weirdly. 0:13:09.360 --> 0:13:12.280 Wooh So, I actually just read something I think it 0:13:12.320 --> 0:13:15.080 was in the New York Times, a column about getting 0:13:15.120 --> 0:13:18.040 weirder as we age, and I think that that is 0:13:18.120 --> 0:13:20.560 one of the most beautiful things about getting older, is 0:13:20.559 --> 0:13:22.560 that you kind of like let go of some of 0:13:22.600 --> 0:13:25.360 those ideas around fitting into a box and kind of 0:13:25.360 --> 0:13:28.120 being normal, so to speak, and get more creative and 0:13:28.160 --> 0:13:30.400 feel more permission to be more of yourself. And I 0:13:30.400 --> 0:13:32.920 think fashion is one of those places where it can 0:13:32.960 --> 0:13:35.560 be a pretty low barrier to entry. If you're wanting 0:13:35.600 --> 0:13:38.360 to be more experimental, and I think it is a 0:13:38.400 --> 0:13:41.000 great way to kind of start stepping out and taking 0:13:41.040 --> 0:13:44.400 more risks. And I talk about all the time about 0:13:44.840 --> 0:13:47.480 just because you feel like people are paying attention to 0:13:47.520 --> 0:13:50.120 you or you feel weird, it's okay to sit with 0:13:50.200 --> 0:13:52.800 the feeling and still do the thing anyway. And so 0:13:52.880 --> 0:13:55.120 I think fashion is one of those things where you 0:13:55.200 --> 0:13:58.800 can actually be experimental, kind of take some opportunities to 0:13:58.920 --> 0:14:01.400 just dress up on a random and Thursday, just because 0:14:02.000 --> 0:14:03.760 this is also one of the ways that I think 0:14:03.840 --> 0:14:07.040 the Internet has actually done as a favor, and that 0:14:07.200 --> 0:14:10.319 you see so many like blogs and channels that are 0:14:10.320 --> 0:14:13.120 really focused on just finding cool, random people on the 0:14:13.120 --> 0:14:15.720 streets who have like cool fashion sense. And so I 0:14:15.760 --> 0:14:18.400 think in some of those ways, like the weirdness and 0:14:18.440 --> 0:14:20.320 the kind of stepping out of the box has been 0:14:20.440 --> 0:14:24.320 celebrated and given a platform to kind of exists, whereas 0:14:24.400 --> 0:14:26.600 maybe you know, five to seven years ago that would 0:14:26.640 --> 0:14:29.000 not happen. But I also think it is really important 0:14:29.040 --> 0:14:31.000 for you to know that people are not paying attention 0:14:31.080 --> 0:14:33.720 to you as much as you think that they are. Right, Like, 0:14:33.760 --> 0:14:36.000 if you think about your own kind of inner monologue 0:14:36.000 --> 0:14:38.040 when you are going throughout your day, you're thinking about 0:14:38.120 --> 0:14:40.120 what are you cooking for dinner, where the kids need 0:14:40.160 --> 0:14:42.440 to be this afternoon, what other work stuff do I 0:14:42.480 --> 0:14:44.880 need to do. You're far more interested in involved in 0:14:44.880 --> 0:14:47.200 yourself than you typically are in other people, and so 0:14:47.280 --> 0:14:50.080 I think that idea that you are in a spotlight 0:14:50.160 --> 0:14:54.680 anytime you're out in public isn't always incredibly realistic. And 0:14:54.720 --> 0:14:57.840 so if you are interested in being more experimental with 0:14:57.920 --> 0:15:01.000 your fashion and just dressing up just because it's Thursday, 0:15:01.480 --> 0:15:03.560 I think that is a great thing to do. 0:15:03.680 --> 0:15:03.840 You know. 0:15:03.920 --> 0:15:06.440 I think again, especially as we get older, it is 0:15:06.480 --> 0:15:08.200 a good idea to kind of lean into all of 0:15:08.200 --> 0:15:10.840 the parts of ourselves. And once you leave this earth, 0:15:11.080 --> 0:15:13.240 you don't want to have any regrets about like, oh 0:15:13.280 --> 0:15:15.080 I wish I would have done that thing. And so 0:15:15.640 --> 0:15:17.240 if you feel like it is on your heart to 0:15:17.240 --> 0:15:20.640 be in a ball gown just because it's Saturday morning 0:15:21.160 --> 0:15:23.560 going to the former's market, go and do that, and 0:15:23.680 --> 0:15:25.440 make sure you take some fabulous pictures. 0:15:25.560 --> 0:15:27.440 And for the person who's kind of on the fence 0:15:27.480 --> 0:15:29.760 and they still feel like they need a reason to 0:15:29.840 --> 0:15:32.560 get dressed up, what would you say to them? 0:15:32.920 --> 0:15:36.120 I mean, it's not hard to create a reason, I think. So, 0:15:36.480 --> 0:15:39.120 you know, can we celebrate five hundred days at your 0:15:39.240 --> 0:15:43.800 new job or oh, I'm celebrating whatever, like it's the 0:15:43.840 --> 0:15:46.480 first week of May. Like, I think creating your own 0:15:46.560 --> 0:15:49.600 celebration is fine. But I also think it could be 0:15:49.640 --> 0:15:51.880 a fun idea to talk to friends and like make 0:15:51.920 --> 0:15:55.000 this a group activity. So maybe y'all plan some affair 0:15:55.080 --> 0:15:57.720 where people are forced to get more dressed up again. 0:15:57.800 --> 0:16:00.680 I think to our earlier conversation about being in more 0:16:00.720 --> 0:16:03.840 creative and intentional by connecting with one another, having a 0:16:03.880 --> 0:16:05.880 fashion show as a friend group could be a fun 0:16:05.920 --> 0:16:08.840 thing to do. You know, I think giving yourself permission 0:16:09.080 --> 0:16:12.560 where it does not otherwise exist is actually a great 0:16:13.160 --> 0:16:16.520 I think emotional regulation, mental health kind of strategy. 0:16:16.840 --> 0:16:17.320 I love that. 0:16:17.360 --> 0:16:19.640 I absolutely love that. And now you're giving me ideas 0:16:19.680 --> 0:16:23.600 to find a reason for the entire team addressing. 0:16:24.600 --> 0:16:29.360 Virtual fashion show. Well at least, but wait, but we 0:16:29.440 --> 0:16:32.560 cannot because I know this is like your super Bowl day. 0:16:32.960 --> 0:16:35.160 So I also need to know who are you most 0:16:35.200 --> 0:16:37.760 looking forward to seeing at the met galup. 0:16:38.080 --> 0:16:42.960 So Paloma Elsesser is one of them. Always I think 0:16:43.360 --> 0:16:46.720 her met loooks are always really underrated and the days 0:16:46.800 --> 0:16:50.080 leading up to the met She's always posted like inspiration. 0:16:50.240 --> 0:16:52.960 This year it's comde Garson, who I don't know if 0:16:52.960 --> 0:16:55.440 she's being dressed by, but that's the inspo she's posted, 0:16:55.480 --> 0:16:59.080 and they always have. I think garments, especially for women, 0:16:59.200 --> 0:17:02.560 that subverb how we look at the female form. So 0:17:02.640 --> 0:17:05.800 I always really appreciate that. At the twenty twenty five 0:17:06.000 --> 0:17:10.159 Billboard Music Awards, Erica bad Do wore this dress that 0:17:10.280 --> 0:17:12.760 was almost kind of alike to Sarah Bartman, who was 0:17:12.800 --> 0:17:15.960 the woman who was experimenting on by scientists, the black woman, 0:17:16.560 --> 0:17:20.000 And so I think Erica Baddu is already really grand 0:17:20.040 --> 0:17:22.520 in the way that she plays with proportions her hats, 0:17:22.600 --> 0:17:24.960 and then I think that was such a big moment 0:17:25.000 --> 0:17:26.800 for her, especially like no, I don't want to say 0:17:26.800 --> 0:17:29.600 people don't pay attention to the Billboard Music Awards, but 0:17:29.760 --> 0:17:32.240 to wear that there was a statement. So I'm really curious. 0:17:32.359 --> 0:17:34.679 I'm not sure if she's going, but I'm curious what 0:17:34.760 --> 0:17:37.800 she's gonna wear, because she's also done some really fun 0:17:37.880 --> 0:17:40.119 stuff with like Marnie in the past, and her and 0:17:40.119 --> 0:17:43.280 her daughter were in a Marnie campaign. Another brand that 0:17:44.600 --> 0:17:48.040 doesn't like subscribe to, like the naked dress, small waist, 0:17:48.119 --> 0:17:50.600 wide hips of it all, and so I think the 0:17:50.640 --> 0:17:54.800 people who lean into that are going to be really fun. 0:17:55.040 --> 0:17:58.720 So Erica Paloma Elsas, they're always Tiana Taylor like, she's 0:17:58.760 --> 0:18:04.280 always great, Rihanna like, I don't I heard Zindeia's not going. 0:18:04.320 --> 0:18:07.840 So I'm a little bit sad about that. But one 0:18:07.880 --> 0:18:11.120 of my favorite brands, who dressed Regina King last year, 0:18:11.280 --> 0:18:14.639 who decides war. I'm hoping they have some placements on 0:18:14.680 --> 0:18:16.760 the carpet as well, which is a black owned brand, 0:18:16.920 --> 0:18:18.879 So I'm excited to see what they do. And a 0:18:18.920 --> 0:18:21.400 lot of their work is inspired by like church art 0:18:21.440 --> 0:18:23.920 and cathedrals and things like that, and so I think 0:18:24.119 --> 0:18:27.400 there's an intersection between like the history of fashion as 0:18:27.520 --> 0:18:29.680 art and what they already do. So that's going to 0:18:29.760 --> 0:18:30.280 be exciting. 0:18:30.720 --> 0:18:32.600 Ooh, so we should be in store for lots of 0:18:32.640 --> 0:18:36.000 great I am of course excited. This is Asia Wilson's 0:18:36.000 --> 0:18:37.959 first year on the host committee, and so I am 0:18:38.119 --> 0:18:39.760 very excited to see you what kind of looks she 0:18:39.800 --> 0:18:41.600 will give us it as well as Injelies. 0:18:41.960 --> 0:18:45.760 Absolutely well, we will see you all next week and 0:18:45.960 --> 0:18:48.040 stay tuned on our socials. We are going to be 0:18:48.080 --> 0:18:50.480 asking guys what should we name this segment, and we 0:18:50.560 --> 0:18:52.119 kind of just got into it and don't have a 0:18:52.200 --> 0:18:55.000 name yet, so we could definitely use some help from 0:18:55.040 --> 0:18:56.200 our loyal listeners. 0:18:56.640 --> 0:19:09.440 Thanks Salise. More from our conversation after the break. Thank 0:19:09.480 --> 0:19:11.640 you so much for joining us today, doctor Jones. 0:19:11.800 --> 0:19:14.000 Thank you so much for having me, Doctor Joy. 0:19:14.400 --> 0:19:16.680 It's so imposure to chat with you again. The conversation 0:19:16.760 --> 0:19:20.480 we had about narcissism continues to be a community favorite. 0:19:20.520 --> 0:19:23.680 It's one that people revisit quite often, so I thought 0:19:23.680 --> 0:19:25.360 that it was great to bring you back for this 0:19:25.440 --> 0:19:28.280 conversation because it feels like a bit of a spin off, 0:19:28.320 --> 0:19:31.520 though not quite. The conversation we're having today is around 0:19:32.119 --> 0:19:36.400 going no contact with family and friends and romantic partners. 0:19:36.680 --> 0:19:38.879 So I think that there are a lot of definitions 0:19:38.920 --> 0:19:41.560 when people are talking about no contact. But in terms 0:19:41.600 --> 0:19:43.360 of your work, what do we mean when we're talking 0:19:43.359 --> 0:19:44.480 about going no contact? 0:19:44.600 --> 0:19:48.320 So no contact to me means exactly that. It means 0:19:48.359 --> 0:19:52.160 that once you go no contact, there is no more 0:19:52.320 --> 0:19:57.199 contact after that. This is definitive, it's done. It's not 0:19:57.480 --> 0:20:02.399 meant to be an action to encourage another action, meaning 0:20:02.480 --> 0:20:06.040 I'm not going no contact with you to be punitive 0:20:06.600 --> 0:20:08.800 or to get you to try to hurry up and 0:20:08.880 --> 0:20:11.720 reach out to me and do all those things. It's 0:20:11.760 --> 0:20:15.960 no contact because I am trying to protect my mental peace. 0:20:16.280 --> 0:20:19.600 I have decided that this relationship is not healthy for 0:20:19.760 --> 0:20:23.720 me anymore, and I think it's better for us to 0:20:23.840 --> 0:20:27.960 be done with each other. In releasing this relationship, it's 0:20:28.040 --> 0:20:31.679 done with love, but it's more to protect me and 0:20:31.760 --> 0:20:34.600 my piece and where I'm at, that is what no 0:20:34.760 --> 0:20:35.560 contact is. 0:20:35.680 --> 0:20:36.520 We are done. 0:20:36.640 --> 0:20:38.760