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Speaker 1: Hey guys, Saga and Crystal here.

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Speaker 1: dot com. Good morning, everybody, Happy Monday. Have an amazing

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Speaker 1: show for everybody today. What do we have, Crystal?

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Speaker 2: Indeed, we do big show today. So Putin and Trump

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Speaker 2: are going to be meeting in Alaska? Might we get

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Speaker 2: a Ukraine piece deal? We will break all of that

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Speaker 2: down for you and what the indications are. Also, we're

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Speaker 2: going to dig into some social trends. I don't know

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Speaker 2: if you guys saw these viral charts. Social scientists are

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Speaker 2: sounding the alarm over some significant personality changes, especially among

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Speaker 2: younger generations. So we will try to figure out what

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Speaker 2: is going on there. Israel assassinated a well known Al

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Speaker 2: Jazeera A journalist and his entire crew. We're going to

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Speaker 2: have an editor over at drop site News who knew

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Speaker 2: him well join us to talk about his life, his legacy,

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Speaker 2: and also Israel's just relentless murdering of journalists and the

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Speaker 2: silence from the West as that has been ongoing. We're

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Speaker 2: going to dig into some wild comments made by ADL's

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Speaker 2: Jonathan Greenwlatt, including some on intermarriage quite a hot take there,

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Speaker 2: some big updates on the Israel First movement here in

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Speaker 2: the United States, and investigative journalist Seth Harp is going

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Speaker 2: to join us to discuss his new book before brag Cartel.

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Speaker 2: I do not think you want to miss that particular topic.

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Speaker 1: That's right, Thank you everybody who has been doing that.

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Speaker 1: really helps us grow. It's not one dollar in marketing

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Speaker 1: ever spent on this show, and yet it continues to grow.

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Speaker 1: So thank you to everybody. As Chrystl said, we're going

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Speaker 1: to start with the Ukraine Trump Summit, or the sorry

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Speaker 1: Trump Russia Summit. Ukraine is still a questionable one. It

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Speaker 1: will take place on Friday in Alaska. A lot going

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Speaker 1: on here behind the scenes. Here is Trump now talking

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Speaker 1: about it in the Oval office. Here's what he had

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Speaker 1: to say.

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Speaker 3: President Zelensky has to get all of his uh uh

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Speaker 3: everything he needs because he's going to have to get

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Speaker 3: ready to sign something, and I think he is working

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Speaker 3: hard to get that done. Well, you're looking at territory

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Speaker 3: that's been fought over for three and a half years

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Speaker 3: with you know, a lot of Russians have died, a

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Speaker 3: lot of Ukraineians have died, so we're looking at that,

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Speaker 3: but we're actually looking to get.

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Speaker 4: Back and uh, some swapping.

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Speaker 5: It's complicated.

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Speaker 3: It's actually nothing easy. It's very complicated. But we're going

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Speaker 3: to get some back. We're going to get some uh

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Speaker 3: some switched. There'll be some swapping of territories to the

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Speaker 3: betterment of both. And but we'll be talking about that

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Speaker 3: either later or tomorrow or whatever.

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Speaker 1: Pay very close attention to what he said there about

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Speaker 1: the swapping of territories. That is going to be the

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Speaker 1: crux of this entire summit, and whether or not it

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Speaker 1: is successful or not. Let's go and put this ap

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Speaker 1: story up on the screen. Trump says he will meet

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Speaker 1: Putin next Friday in Alaska to discuss the end of

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Speaker 1: the Ukraine War. It remains up in the air whether

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Speaker 1: President Zelenski will attend. Originally, they had floated a summit

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Speaker 1: which was bilateral between Donald Trump and Vladimir Putin and

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Speaker 1: then trilateral including the Ukrainians. However, the Ukrainians are making

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Speaker 1: quite a bit of noise now afterwards and drawing some

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Speaker 1: red lines of their own in the sand. This entire

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Speaker 1: idea of swapping territory is the one which the Russians

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Speaker 1: are going to have the most trouble with Crystal. All

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Speaker 1: of the by the way, the way that this has

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Speaker 1: all come about is so preposterous that you know, look,

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Speaker 1: I mean I generally am more supportive of Wikoff, I

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Speaker 1: think than most other members of the administration. But this

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Speaker 1: is part of the problem with having a guy who's

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Speaker 1: doing gaza in Ukraine and also previously built previous qualifications

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Speaker 1: of building the Fountain Blue Hotel in Las Vegas is

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Speaker 1: basically he met with Putin. Putin was like, sure, yeah,

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Speaker 1: let's end the war. I'll have a ceasfire and that

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Speaker 1: will attain basically freezing things where they are. Wikkof Nott

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Speaker 1: that to mean that he would be open to not

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Speaker 1: just a ceasfire, but potentially giving up some territory. Putin

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Speaker 1: in his comments had been like no, no, no, that's not

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Speaker 1: what we're doing. Meanwhile, the Ukrainians are like, hold on

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Speaker 1: a second, we can have a seapire. By the way,

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Speaker 1: Ukrainian law says that we need to have a national

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Speaker 1: referendum on whether any of that's going to happen. Remember,

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Speaker 1: the entire country, plus the delusional Europeans, all still believe

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Speaker 1: that Ukraine needs to be restored to its original borders.

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Speaker 1: So CRIMEA including CRIMEA so It's like we are basically

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Speaker 1: nowhere in terms of the conflict. There's been no diplomatic resolution.

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Speaker 1: At the same time, Trump has introduced the secondary sanctions

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Speaker 1: on countries like India, which currently has a fifty percent teriff.

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Speaker 1: The policy of the United States right now is all

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Speaker 1: over the map. We are both more hawkish direction with

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Speaker 1: harder sanctions than Joe Biden ever proposed. The United States

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Speaker 1: is currently shipping just recently some two hundred and fifty

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Speaker 1: million dollars of offensive weaponry to the Ukrainians, including the

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Speaker 1: shipping of a Patriot matte battery which was never open

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Speaker 1: under the Biden administration. And yet at the same time

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Speaker 1: we're meeting here with Putin. I, I mean, look my

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Speaker 1: cards on the table. I want the war to end,

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Speaker 1: but that's going to require some serious compromise from the

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Speaker 1: Ukrainians and the Europeans, which they have not yet been

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Speaker 1: able to make. So right now things are crazy. They

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Speaker 1: are just totally ambiguous. You know, the summit itself and

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Speaker 1: how it will all come about is one which is

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Speaker 1: indicative of the Trump administration, which is like flitting about

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Speaker 1: basically from policy a policy. We went from Beratings, Lensky

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Speaker 1: and the Oval saying you don't have the cards. Actually

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Speaker 1: he does have the cards because he's getting most of

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Speaker 1: what he wants. So yeah, it's that's where we're at

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Speaker 1: right now. You're meeting with Putin on Friday. We'll see

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Speaker 1: what happens in Trump's words, because I don't really have

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Speaker 1: anything else of them.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well, let me start with the positive. It's great.

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Speaker 1: Good.

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Speaker 2: You know, the only way you're going to be able

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Speaker 2: to resolve this is through these sorts of meetings, So

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Speaker 2: I will say that is.

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Speaker 4: A positive step in the right direction.

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Speaker 1: I'm with you.

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Speaker 2: I want to dwell a little bit on what you're

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Speaker 2: saying about witcough because this was a major screw up

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Speaker 2: from him. He appears to have completely misrepresented or misunderstood

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Speaker 2: the Russian position in terms of what they were willing

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Speaker 2: to quote unquote give up, which is basically they're not

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Speaker 2: actually willing, at least from the outside outset to give

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Speaker 2: up anything. And so he misstated that created a lot

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Speaker 2: of confusion. Had to walk it back, and you know,

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Speaker 2: I think it's worth reassessing a lot of the witcough

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Speaker 2: Hey geography that we got at the beginning of this administration,

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Speaker 2: not just because of the sort of like amateur hour

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Speaker 2: fuck up with you know, a major high stakes negotiations

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Speaker 2: such as this.

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Speaker 4: But we also know at this point.

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Speaker 2: That with regard to Israel, Palestine, Gaza, Whitcoff has not

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Speaker 2: been part of the solution at the end of the day,

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Speaker 2: he has been just as much a part of undermining,

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Speaker 2: towing Netanyahu's line and destroying those negotiations with Hamas as

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Speaker 2: you know, as Trump himself and as net Nyahu. So

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Speaker 2: I think it's worth us putting to bed the idea

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Speaker 2: that Steve what Witcoff was going to be some you know,

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Speaker 2: some wild card great negotiator going to bring world peace.

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Speaker 2: That has not been the track record that this man

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Speaker 2: has that we have seen for this.

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Speaker 1: Even though originally, you know, there was some promise. But

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Speaker 1: it's like you said, especially with the Gaza, you know,

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Speaker 1: with the way that that has all come about, it

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Speaker 1: does raise serious questions here about Russia, the way that

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Speaker 1: Russia and but the problem with the schizophrenia of the

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Speaker 1: Russia policy is that you can basically look into this

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Speaker 1: whatever you want, and I know I'm dwelling on this,

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Speaker 1: but it's very important if you follow the details. So

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Speaker 1: on the one hand, we're shipping weapons, and we're taking

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Speaker 1: more hawkish few who than Biden. On the other we're

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Speaker 1: now meeting with Putin. But listen, I agree, I'm all

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Speaker 1: for meeting, but all of the concrete policy has drifted

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Speaker 1: in the wrong direction. We're shipping weapons, we're doing more sanctions,

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Speaker 1: and we're basically demanding that Russia pull back, you know,

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Speaker 1: from whatever it's Donetsk or whatever province exactly that they

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Speaker 1: want to fully control, along with the two capitals which

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Speaker 1: they say the Ukrainians need to withdraw from. At the

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Speaker 1: same time, you know, we are not really doing much

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Speaker 1: to quell the European and Ukrainian delusions that all their

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Speaker 1: territory is ever coming back. Every day that the war continues,

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Speaker 1: they lose territory. This is an empirical fact, and you

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Speaker 1: can look at the realities of the battlefield on the ground.

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Speaker 1: We could ship them everything that we don't have strapped

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Speaker 1: to the ground that isn't going to start a nuclear war,

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Speaker 1: and they would still lose. They would just lose lower.

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Speaker 1: And so that's the question of like why do what

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Speaker 1: material interests does the United States have in all this?

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Speaker 6: Well?

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Speaker 2: And not only is that so that the territory is

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Speaker 2: one piece and one gigantic sumbling block.

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Speaker 4: But then you also have to ask, okay, well, what.

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Speaker 2: Were the underlying conditions that led to Russia's in cos

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Speaker 2: And this is again not to deny Russia's agency and

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Speaker 2: that they shouldn't have done it, and all of those

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Speaker 2: sorts of things, but you also have to understand their

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Speaker 2: perspective and what led to this aggressive action. And you know,

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Speaker 2: the NATO eastward expansion, the idea that Ukraine could be

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Speaker 2: part of NATO, our efforts to pull Ukraine into a

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Speaker 2: European sphere versus having Ukraine be a neutral party.

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Speaker 4: Those are the.

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Speaker 2: Underlying conditions that led to this provocative and yes illegal

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Speaker 2: action from Russia. So is the Trump administration going to

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Speaker 2: be serious about dealing with those underlying conditions? You also,

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Speaker 2: you know, we talk a lot about it, and understandably,

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Speaker 2: so okay, if we made a deal with Putin, can

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Speaker 2: we trust Putin? They have to be asked in the

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Speaker 2: same question, can they trust us? I mean, look at

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Speaker 2: the way our country in general operates, not just under

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Speaker 2: Donald Trump, but looks specifically at how Donald Trump operates.

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Speaker 2: There's no reason for them to trust us, and our

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Speaker 2: good faith in any negotiation.

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Speaker 4: Just look at how we've acted.

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Speaker 2: With Israel, and Ron exactly used the pretext of diplomatic

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Speaker 2: negotiations to launch an offensive, aggressive war against the Iranians.

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Speaker 2: So why would any country in the world, and certainly

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Speaker 2: not an adversarial one like Russia, trust that we're coming

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Speaker 2: to the table in good faith. So when we were

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Speaker 2: talking about how much of a problem that was that

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Speaker 2: we use the pretext of diplomatic negotiations, it wasn't just

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Speaker 2: about what the fall out would be with regard to Iran.

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Speaker 2: It was also about how will we be able to

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Speaker 2: approach these other high stakes diplomatic negotiations and have anyone

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Speaker 2: take our word for anything. So that also remains a

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Speaker 2: major issue going into this tetle.

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Speaker 1: All set I said that so much at the time,

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Speaker 1: I was like, does anybody understand what it means to

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Speaker 1: use diplomatic negotiations as a ruse? I was like, by

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Speaker 1: the way, Iran is smallball compared to Russia and to Ukraine,

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Speaker 1: And I don't think that there's any mistake that putin

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Speaker 1: at every turn. When Trump is like fifty days, He's like, yeah, okay,

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Speaker 1: I'm just going to keep bombing Kiev, and then the

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Speaker 1: next day they're like twelve days. He's like, yeah, okay,

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Speaker 1: I'm just going to keep bombing. He's like, what are

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Speaker 1: you going to do about it. I'm a nuclear armed

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Speaker 1: state with nine five hundred nuclear warheads. Go for it.

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Speaker 1: You can put all the deals or whatever you want

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Speaker 1: on the table. Here's the Vice president talking about the

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Speaker 1: issue recently in an interview. Let's take a listen.

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Speaker 7: Fundamentally, this is something where the president needs to force

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Speaker 7: President Putin and President Zelenski really to sit down to

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Speaker 7: figure out their differences. We have a lot of economic

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Speaker 7: points of leverage and we're willing to use those to

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Speaker 7: bring about peace. And that was a big thing that happened.

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Speaker 7: To your point about weapons, what we said to the

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Speaker 7: Europeans is simply, first of all, this is in your

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Speaker 7: neck of the woods, this is in your back door.

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Speaker 7: You guys have got to step up and take a

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Speaker 7: bigger role in this thing. We're done with the funding

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Speaker 7: of the Ukraine war business. We want to bring about

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Speaker 7: a peaceful settlement to this thing. We want to stop

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Speaker 7: the killing. But Americans, I think, are sick of continuing

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Speaker 7: to send their money, their talk dollars to this particular conflict.

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Speaker 7: But if the Europeans want to step up and actually

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Speaker 7: buy the weapons from American producers, we're okay with that,

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Speaker 7: but we're not going to fund it ourselves anymore.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, with great respect, that's the Biden policy, right, I mean,

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Speaker 1: the Biden policy was just the US and Europeans. You know,

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Speaker 1: remember the talking point of like, oh, it's going to

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Speaker 1: be great for the US economy, and like, oh, really,

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Speaker 1: the defense dollars, of course are widely distributed across our economy,

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Speaker 1: so we're dealing with that. We've also got Zelensky sounding

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Speaker 1: off here. And look, I understand, you know, it's an

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Speaker 1: emotional thing for the Ukrainians and for a lot of

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Speaker 1: Ukraine supporters here in America, but you need to deal

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Speaker 1: with reality. Your small country, you're up against a nuclear

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Speaker 1: armed power, it's a non NATO nation, there's no obligation

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Speaker 1: for the United States to defend you. And you're drawing

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Speaker 1: lines in the sand which were ridiculous on the day

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Speaker 1: that the war started, and Crimea was already overtaken and

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Speaker 1: frankly like delusional in the year twenty twenty five. But

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Speaker 1: here's what Zelenski had to say in response. He says quote,

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Speaker 1: Ukraine is ready for final decisions that can bring peace.

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Speaker 1: Any decisions that are against us, Any decisions that are

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Speaker 1: without Ukraine are at the same time decisions against peace.

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Speaker 1: They will not achieve anything. These are still born decisions.

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Speaker 1: They are unworkable decisions, and we all need real and

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Speaker 1: genuine peace, peace to the people, will respect, basically saying

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Speaker 1: that anything that Ukraine does not sign off on is

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Speaker 1: one that is completely bunked and will of course not

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Speaker 1: stand up. Now here's the issue, you know with that

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Speaker 1: is that the Ukrainian position is one that is again

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Speaker 1: I mean it is completely delusional. Let me read here

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Speaker 1: specifically from the Ukrainian Encounter, Ukrainian and European counter ceasefire proposal.

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Speaker 1: What they say is that in a joint statement from

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Speaker 1: the Europeans as well from you know, Germany, the UK

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Speaker 1: and France is all that any diplomatic end must protect

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Speaker 1: the Ukraine and europe security interests. But that specifically their

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Speaker 1: ceasefire proposal quote crucially, a European plan which presented to

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Speaker 1: all of the Americans, stipulates that any territorial concession by

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Speaker 1: Kiev must then be safeguarded by ironclad security guarantees including

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Speaker 1: quote potential NATO membership for Ukraine. And it just doesn't

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Speaker 1: make any sense to give NATO membership for Ukraine in

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Speaker 1: a war that started at least in part because of

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Speaker 1: a NATO invitation for Ukraine to join NATO. I already know,

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Speaker 1: you know, the neo as long as other people will

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Speaker 1: get very upset about this, but like, look at the

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Speaker 1: history of it. Ukraine has always been a lynchpin of

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Speaker 1: Russia's security strategy. I'm not saying it's legitimate, it just

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Speaker 1: has been. It has been recognized from the beginning of

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Speaker 1: the expansion of NATO by George Kennan, by Bill Burns,

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Speaker 1: who was a previous CIA director under Joe Biden. They

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Speaker 1: all said in writing, They're like, look, even expanding into

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Speaker 1: the Baltics is a problem, but Ukraine must always remain

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Speaker 1: off the table. And then if we look at the

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Speaker 1: exact moment the US Russia relations completely flipped on a

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Speaker 1: dime was when the Munich Security Conference of two thousand

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Speaker 1: and seven, that is very around the time that we

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Speaker 1: invite invite Georgia and Ukraine to enter NATO. And what

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Speaker 1: does Putin do in two thousand and eight, does everybody remember, like,

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Speaker 1: what was it putin at the Beijing Olympics, I think

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Speaker 1: in O eight while the Russians march into Georgia. And

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Speaker 1: now similarly here with Ukraine, where the Kamala and the

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Speaker 1: Kamala and the Biden administration were making a lot of

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Speaker 1: steps towards actually formalizing Ukraine into NATO, and then lo

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Speaker 1: and behold, we got to find our selves in a war,

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Speaker 1: not just justify the war. It's just reality. I understand

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Speaker 1: the Ukrainian's like, well, how can we ever, you know,

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Speaker 1: want peace. I'm like, listen, your your victory is you

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Speaker 1: get to live, You get to live, to fight another

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Speaker 1: you get to keep eighty percent of your country. That's

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Speaker 1: a decent deal considering all the amount of money and

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Speaker 1: you know, the amount of lives that everybody has expended. Yes,

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Speaker 1: it's easy for me to stay here from Washington, but

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Speaker 1: where the global superpower. We're the ones at the end

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Speaker 1: of the day who get to decide how the conflict ends.

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Speaker 1: And you know, if you want otherwise, well you know,

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Speaker 1: get some nuclear weapons. I don't really know what else

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Speaker 1: to say to you. Zelensky. He's a serious problem.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, no, he is a problem. At this point I mean,

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Speaker 2: I think he has this Hollywood conception of like, you know,

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Speaker 2: he's the main character and there's a glorious, happy ending

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Speaker 2: in which all the you know, evil is vanquished and

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Speaker 2: good prevails and he doesn't have to budget single inch

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Speaker 2: off his position. And you know, Biden certainly fed into

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Speaker 2: that delusion. Now Trump has as well, you know, after

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Speaker 2: the whole like bullying in the Oval Office, then Zelensky

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Speaker 2: ends up getting all of all of the things that

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Speaker 2: he ultimately wanted. And I think it speaks to to

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Speaker 2: Trump's persona and the way he approaches these things, Like

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Speaker 2: I think he believed, you know, he thinks everything's like

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Speaker 2: a freaking real estate negotiation and that you can just

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Speaker 2: get in a room and you can you know, get

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Speaker 2: some rapport with the various players and figure out some

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Speaker 2: kind of a deal that's gonna work.

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Speaker 4: And so he used his.

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Speaker 2: Typical tactics of like public bluster and you know, the

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Speaker 2: theatrical display in the Oval Office, and when that didn't work,

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Speaker 2: now it's just kind of a mess. Like it's hard

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Speaker 2: to even say what the administration's position is.

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Speaker 4: Remember the whole minerals deal, Like whatever the game of that,

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Speaker 4: what does that even mean in all of this going forward,

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Speaker 4: is that even a real thing? Who knows?

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Speaker 2: So, Yeah, I think it's a real wild card what

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Speaker 2: could come out of this. But I'm not particularly hopeful,

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Speaker 2: you know, just to set expectations, and I would love

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Speaker 2: to be proven wrong.

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Speaker 4: We'll see.

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Speaker 2: But the other piece is that it is very difficult

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Speaker 2: to end worse. It shouldn't be that way, but it is.

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Speaker 2: We saw what happened with Biden the pull out of

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Speaker 2: afghanist and it's a very difficult political thing to do,

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Speaker 2: and you really have to lay a lot of groundwork,

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Speaker 2: narrative groundwork for the public to understand why the state

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Speaker 2: of position of the American government, of both administrations are

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Speaker 2: basically like Ukraine's going to get everything and we're not

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Speaker 2: going to give an inch, Why you're going to end

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Speaker 2: up with a result that is significantly different than that,

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Speaker 2: Why there are going to be so many concessions after

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Speaker 2: all of the support that we've given Ukraine over the years.

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Speaker 4: And there also hasn't really been any.

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Speaker 2: Narrative built to prepare people for that eventuality. And I

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Speaker 2: think Trump is intelligent enough to know that there are

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Speaker 2: many likely deals that could be done with Russia that

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Speaker 2: would be pretty unpalatable to the America.

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Speaker 1: Oh absolutely, yeah, you're absolutely right. This is a propagandistic

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Speaker 1: thing too, where you have to look at mass media.

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Speaker 1: And this explains the Israel situation as well. If you

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Speaker 1: watch Fox News, you know Churchill and Zelenski are of

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Speaker 1: the same ilk as, like, there's no difference between them.

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Speaker 1: The Ukrainians are freedom fired, the Russians are committing genocide.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I'm not joking. This is literally what they

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Speaker 1: say over there. And the most politically palatable thing to

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Speaker 1: do is to do exactly what we did with Afghanistan,

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Speaker 1: which is just chunk as much money into the war

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Speaker 1: for as long as humanly possible. Slowly erode and the

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Speaker 1: mission continues to fail, but everybody just kind of moves

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Speaker 1: on with their life because I don't want to deal

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Speaker 1: with reality. And you know that, by the way, includes

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Speaker 1: many of the Ukrainians. Let's go and put a seven

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Speaker 1: police up on the screen because this is very important,

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Speaker 1: and this is from very recently. Ukraine's support for its

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Speaker 1: own war effort is collapsing. This is very similar to

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Speaker 1: the afghan situation, where the people who actually have to

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Speaker 1: do the fighting are like, yeah, I'm not so sure

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Speaker 1: about this, like, look, we'll take your money. You know

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Speaker 1: that pays for a lot of nice condos in Dubai,

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Speaker 1: but for the rest of it, not so sure. So

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Speaker 1: check this out. Ukraine's appetite, appetite for the war and

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Speaker 1: support of a negotiated piece. Back in twenty twenty two,

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Speaker 1: some twenty two percent said that Ukraine should seek to

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Speaker 1: negotiate an ending to the war as soon as possible,

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Speaker 1: just twenty two percent. Today, that is sixty nine percent

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Speaker 1: of Ukrainians. This is a gallup pole. And only twenty

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Speaker 1: four percent said quote Ukraine should continue fighting until it

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Speaker 1: wins the war, whereas in twenty twenty two it was

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Speaker 1: some seventy three percent. And that's because the reality of

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Speaker 1: combat and also of what the war is setting in.

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Speaker 1: Sixty year olds are now being allowed to join the

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Speaker 1: Ukrainian war effort. Sixty year olds are now being with

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Speaker 1: no age limit whatsoever on the number of people in

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Speaker 1: millions of the country have fled. The richest and most

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Speaker 1: powerful Ukrainians are not fighting in this war. They're long gone.

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Speaker 1: They're living. I saw them in the hotels in Budapest

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Speaker 1: and in Vienna. They're living the high life. Don't worry,

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Speaker 1: and a lot of them still are actually printing money

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Speaker 1: off of the corruption from the US money that continues

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Speaker 1: to flow into the country. By the way, if you

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Speaker 1: want to find out about that corruption, good luck to you.

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Speaker 1: Let's go ahead and put a nine please on the screen.

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Speaker 1: You know, again, the Western media basically ignored it. You know,

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Speaker 1: there are a few stories here every once in a while.

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Speaker 1: But Ukraines quote new anti corruption law led to the

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Speaker 1: biggest protests in Ukraine since the beginning of the war.

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Speaker 1: Why because the Parliament and Zelenski both approved legislation quote

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Speaker 1: restoring the independence of the country's two main anti corruption bodies.

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Speaker 1: But in reality, what it did is that inside Zelenski

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Speaker 1: and others basically allowed the They basically allowed the new

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Speaker 1: laws to go into place where you had the anti

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Speaker 1: corruption watchdogs come under attack. They reversed some of them,

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Speaker 1: but the point is is that it was seen as

433
00:20:35,280 --> 00:20:38,720
Speaker 1: a widely authoritarian law to cover up much of the

434
00:20:38,720 --> 00:20:44,080
Speaker 1: corruption for allegedly this democratic haven in Europe, which you know,

435
00:20:44,320 --> 00:20:46,760
Speaker 1: not only was the most corrupt country in all of

436
00:20:46,760 --> 00:20:49,719
Speaker 1: Europe before the outbreak of the war, but Zelenski himself,

437
00:20:49,720 --> 00:20:53,680
Speaker 1: of course, has canceled elections he has huge opposition actually

438
00:20:53,720 --> 00:20:56,639
Speaker 1: inside of the country. And worst of all actually is

439
00:20:56,640 --> 00:20:58,960
Speaker 1: that if you did want some sort of end to

440
00:20:59,119 --> 00:21:02,840
Speaker 1: the war is back. In twenty twenty two, Ukraine passed

441
00:21:03,080 --> 00:21:05,919
Speaker 1: a piece of legislation through its parliament basically saying that

442
00:21:06,040 --> 00:21:10,200
Speaker 1: any you know, quote negotiation or surrender or whatever has

443
00:21:10,280 --> 00:21:13,960
Speaker 1: to be approved by referendum. But of course the circumstances

444
00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:16,840
Speaker 1: of the referendum are up to the government, and of

445
00:21:16,880 --> 00:21:18,760
Speaker 1: course in the warning in the way that it would

446
00:21:18,760 --> 00:21:20,320
Speaker 1: all go out, so the government and all of them

447
00:21:20,359 --> 00:21:23,640
Speaker 1: have plenty of tools available to them to nix any

448
00:21:23,680 --> 00:21:25,600
Speaker 1: sort of deal. And then what can they say them like, oh,

449
00:21:25,680 --> 00:21:27,359
Speaker 1: we tried, our people won't go for it. And then

450
00:21:27,400 --> 00:21:29,119
Speaker 1: what's America going to do. Trump at the end of

451
00:21:29,119 --> 00:21:30,239
Speaker 1: the day, like you said, he's not going to cut

452
00:21:30,280 --> 00:21:32,720
Speaker 1: them off. He just thinks it'll be politically unpalatable. It

453
00:21:32,760 --> 00:21:35,200
Speaker 1: probably will be, to be honest, and so that leads

454
00:21:35,240 --> 00:21:37,280
Speaker 1: to what, you know, just the continuation of the war.

455
00:21:37,600 --> 00:21:39,879
Speaker 1: And you know, as if you're actually horrified by the

456
00:21:39,920 --> 00:21:42,200
Speaker 1: violence and the killing, well then you actually want to

457
00:21:42,200 --> 00:21:45,040
Speaker 1: bring it to an end, and that will require something

458
00:21:45,119 --> 00:21:48,280
Speaker 1: actually quite unpalatable. We could get there if media had

459
00:21:48,320 --> 00:21:50,840
Speaker 1: reported it properly, and also if the government had had

460
00:21:50,880 --> 00:21:53,680
Speaker 1: a consistent narrative from day one on Ukraine. But they haven't.

461
00:21:53,720 --> 00:21:54,520
Speaker 1: They're all over the place.

462
00:21:54,560 --> 00:21:55,679
Speaker 4: They're all over the place.

463
00:21:55,760 --> 00:21:58,320
Speaker 2: So we'll watch it closely see, you know, if there

464
00:21:58,359 --> 00:22:00,840
Speaker 2: are any positive indications on of this. But you know,

465
00:22:00,880 --> 00:22:04,879
Speaker 2: there's not a lot of not a lot of groundwork

466
00:22:04,920 --> 00:22:07,639
Speaker 2: that has been laid to create the likelihood of a

467
00:22:07,720 --> 00:22:08,479
Speaker 2: positive outcome.

468
00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:09,440
Speaker 4: Miss how I would put.

469
00:22:09,359 --> 00:22:11,520
Speaker 1: It, Afghanistan was the same way. I mean, it's like

470
00:22:11,560 --> 00:22:14,359
Speaker 1: it's snuck up on everybody because nobody was paying attention

471
00:22:14,440 --> 00:22:16,960
Speaker 1: and everybody just assumed, ah, they'll kick the can down

472
00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:18,800
Speaker 1: the road, and they're not actually going to do it.

473
00:22:18,800 --> 00:22:20,560
Speaker 1: Biden finally was like, no, I'm not going to do it.

474
00:22:20,560 --> 00:22:23,359
Speaker 1: We're out. And you know, we all saw how that worked.

475
00:22:23,400 --> 00:22:25,399
Speaker 1: So it's not good. It's not good the way that

476
00:22:25,480 --> 00:22:27,040
Speaker 1: this all works. And of course you know that if

477
00:22:27,040 --> 00:22:28,719
Speaker 1: they have to give if Ukraine has to give up

478
00:22:28,720 --> 00:22:32,320
Speaker 1: even one scrap of Eastern Ukraine, Fox News, CNN and

479
00:22:32,359 --> 00:22:33,919
Speaker 1: all these other people going to be united and how

480
00:22:33,920 --> 00:22:36,480
Speaker 1: this is the greatest travesty since Munich, And then what

481
00:22:36,560 --> 00:22:39,159
Speaker 1: will that lead to? More Boomer support and of course,

482
00:22:39,320 --> 00:22:41,920
Speaker 1: more pressure over at the White House from the guy

483
00:22:41,920 --> 00:22:44,760
Speaker 1: who only watches Fox News to get true to get

484
00:22:44,760 --> 00:22:46,000
Speaker 1: his feeling on the pulse, and.

485
00:22:46,280 --> 00:22:49,840
Speaker 2: Who put way too many neocons in his administration. Also, yes,

486
00:22:49,960 --> 00:22:53,359
Speaker 2: and who has no you know, ideological core himself and

487
00:22:53,440 --> 00:22:55,640
Speaker 2: is very much buffeted by whoever is in his ear

488
00:22:55,680 --> 00:22:56,200
Speaker 2: at that moment.

489
00:22:56,200 --> 00:23:01,080
Speaker 1: Absolutely, let's get to site. So this is one we've

490
00:23:01,119 --> 00:23:02,840
Speaker 1: been wanting to talk about for a while. There is

491
00:23:02,880 --> 00:23:05,000
Speaker 1: a meme online we live in a society, and so

492
00:23:05,160 --> 00:23:08,359
Speaker 1: the question is is what kind of society do we

493
00:23:08,480 --> 00:23:08,800
Speaker 1: live in?

494
00:23:08,920 --> 00:23:10,080
Speaker 4: So it's like an important question.

495
00:23:10,119 --> 00:23:13,320
Speaker 1: It is there John Burne Murdoch, who is one of

496
00:23:13,359 --> 00:23:16,159
Speaker 1: the best journalists out there. He's like the data correspondent

497
00:23:16,200 --> 00:23:18,720
Speaker 1: over at the Financial Times. What he does is he

498
00:23:18,760 --> 00:23:22,080
Speaker 1: goes deep into survey data from all across the world

499
00:23:22,119 --> 00:23:24,760
Speaker 1: and also here in America, and he's like, all right, well,

500
00:23:24,800 --> 00:23:27,600
Speaker 1: how do people feel or have views about different things.

501
00:23:27,600 --> 00:23:30,440
Speaker 1: He's talked about gender. This time he's talking about conscientiousness.

502
00:23:30,480 --> 00:23:32,639
Speaker 1: So let's go and put this stuff there on the screen.

503
00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:35,520
Speaker 1: This is how quote how young adults personalities are changing

504
00:23:35,840 --> 00:23:40,280
Speaker 1: with conscientiousness in free fall quote values as expressed at

505
00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:43,800
Speaker 1: percentiles of the full population distribution from how it stood

506
00:23:43,800 --> 00:23:47,560
Speaker 1: in twenty fourteen to today. So what he demonstrates is

507
00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:51,880
Speaker 1: that younger Americans and specifically people sixteen two thirty nine,

508
00:23:51,960 --> 00:23:55,800
Speaker 1: have had a drop in conscientiousness from twenty fourteen, which

509
00:23:55,920 --> 00:23:58,639
Speaker 1: was hovering around like forty five percent or so, to

510
00:23:58,840 --> 00:24:03,440
Speaker 1: sub thirtymatic and precipitous decline. That includes both younger Americans

511
00:24:03,440 --> 00:24:05,600
Speaker 1: and also forty to fifty nine year olds, so older

512
00:24:05,640 --> 00:24:10,280
Speaker 1: millennials and Gen X boomers seem relatively flat. Neuroticism, however,

513
00:24:10,480 --> 00:24:14,120
Speaker 1: has skyrocketed from above baseline in twenty fourteen for younger

514
00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:18,320
Speaker 1: Americans to sky high levels of some seventy percent. Agreeableness

515
00:24:18,359 --> 00:24:21,960
Speaker 1: has actually, again amongst younger Americans, was already below baseline,

516
00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:25,399
Speaker 1: continues to go down, and then similar dramatic drop in

517
00:24:25,560 --> 00:24:29,399
Speaker 1: extra version actually amongst all three age groups. So that

518
00:24:29,520 --> 00:24:32,679
Speaker 1: is the COVID effect. That's technology. All of this together

519
00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:36,320
Speaker 1: really just shows the consequences of people increasingly spending the

520
00:24:36,440 --> 00:24:38,920
Speaker 1: vast majority of their time on the Internet. And let's

521
00:24:38,960 --> 00:24:41,639
Speaker 1: go to the next one, please, shall we, because you

522
00:24:41,720 --> 00:24:44,480
Speaker 1: see this actually in the way that it's expressed in

523
00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:49,280
Speaker 1: social outcomes. So here, for example, you have people making

524
00:24:49,359 --> 00:24:53,119
Speaker 1: plans and following through massive drop in the sixteen to

525
00:24:53,119 --> 00:24:57,280
Speaker 1: thirty nine demographic, perseveres until finished. Massive drop in the

526
00:24:57,320 --> 00:25:00,480
Speaker 1: sixteen to thirty nine quote is easily distract did lo

527
00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:04,480
Speaker 1: and behold massive increase amongst the eighteen or sixteen thirty

528
00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:08,399
Speaker 1: nine demographic, and then quote can be careless a similar increase.

529
00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:11,240
Speaker 1: Now people might ask like, how exactly you measure these things?

530
00:25:11,320 --> 00:25:13,199
Speaker 1: It's a fair question. We'll get to that here in

531
00:25:13,240 --> 00:25:17,440
Speaker 1: a second. But the very last part here about extraversion

532
00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:21,119
Speaker 1: and about personality traits is fascinating. So this is about

533
00:25:21,160 --> 00:25:25,640
Speaker 1: extraversion and trust are in major decline. If you classify outgoing,

534
00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:29,360
Speaker 1: you actually see a massive drop amongst all three age demographics.

535
00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:32,560
Speaker 1: You see especially precipitous drop in quote is helpful to

536
00:25:32,640 --> 00:25:37,600
Speaker 1: others is trusting? Massive decline and then starts arguments. Actually

537
00:25:37,600 --> 00:25:41,480
Speaker 1: a major increase there for everybody. So the personality basically

538
00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:45,520
Speaker 1: that is being encouraged by the Internet, by COVID, by

539
00:25:45,560 --> 00:25:48,760
Speaker 1: our economy, etc. It all comes together is one that

540
00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:53,040
Speaker 1: is largely you know, singular alone spending a lot of

541
00:25:53,040 --> 00:25:56,320
Speaker 1: time on the internet. In the neuroticism, you can see,

542
00:25:56,359 --> 00:25:58,919
Speaker 1: you know, getting things that are kind of bad for

543
00:25:58,960 --> 00:26:01,879
Speaker 1: your psychology and for your worldview served to you on

544
00:26:01,920 --> 00:26:05,720
Speaker 1: an algorithmic basis, and then one which does not encourage

545
00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:11,119
Speaker 1: social contact and specifically like good relations interpersonally. And I

546
00:26:11,119 --> 00:26:14,040
Speaker 1: think that's probably the most important social story of the

547
00:26:14,080 --> 00:26:18,760
Speaker 1: twenty twenties. Gasoline port on the fire by COVID and

548
00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:19,720
Speaker 1: the social isolation.

549
00:26:19,960 --> 00:26:20,720
Speaker 4: I think that's right.

550
00:26:21,320 --> 00:26:26,000
Speaker 2: I think to me, the Internet is an accelerator trends

551
00:26:26,040 --> 00:26:28,280
Speaker 2: that were already pre exist because if you look back,

552
00:26:28,280 --> 00:26:29,760
Speaker 2: I mean, Bowling Alone.

553
00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:31,879
Speaker 4: Right, is the perfect exam was I written ninety four.

554
00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:36,160
Speaker 2: Early nineties, Yeah, and Robert Putnam took a look at

555
00:26:36,320 --> 00:26:38,520
Speaker 2: all of these metrics. I really still recommend that people

556
00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:43,000
Speaker 2: read that book because it documents pre Internet how we

557
00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:47,000
Speaker 2: were already coming apart in these ways where civic associations

558
00:26:47,080 --> 00:26:50,879
Speaker 2: and community participation and the way we participate in politics

559
00:26:51,280 --> 00:26:56,760
Speaker 2: went from being in person collective to individualize and increasingly

560
00:26:56,800 --> 00:26:58,040
Speaker 2: sort of on the sidelines.

561
00:26:58,280 --> 00:26:58,480
Speaker 1: Right.

562
00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:03,840
Speaker 2: So that trend has just been accelerated and lit on

563
00:27:03,960 --> 00:27:08,800
Speaker 2: fire by the social media age and our ability to

564
00:27:09,320 --> 00:27:12,879
Speaker 2: you know, be completely alone and still have this semblance

565
00:27:13,080 --> 00:27:15,919
Speaker 2: of like we're doing something like we're connecting with people,

566
00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:18,280
Speaker 2: but we're not really connecting with people. And there's some

567
00:27:18,320 --> 00:27:19,840
Speaker 2: wre stats to back that up that we'll get to

568
00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:21,960
Speaker 2: in just a moment. I think it speaks to a

569
00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:23,879
Speaker 2: lot of things. I mean, I think it speaks to

570
00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:27,199
Speaker 2: that is sort of the underlying ideology, I mean, not

571
00:27:27,359 --> 00:27:30,159
Speaker 2: sort of, it is the underlying ideology really of our

572
00:27:30,280 --> 00:27:35,399
Speaker 2: entire system, this very individualistic, neoliberal era view of like

573
00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:40,359
Speaker 2: yourself and your rights and you know your aspirations and

574
00:27:40,440 --> 00:27:41,679
Speaker 2: your goals first.

575
00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:45,280
Speaker 4: And so when you have that in the.

576
00:27:45,240 --> 00:27:48,600
Speaker 2: Bloodstream of society for years and years and years and years,

577
00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:51,960
Speaker 2: no one should be surprised when it's expressed in these

578
00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:56,480
Speaker 2: sorts of outcomes. I think it also is a reflection

579
00:27:56,840 --> 00:28:00,760
Speaker 2: of people's sense that the collective product we've tried to

580
00:28:00,760 --> 00:28:03,560
Speaker 2: engage in have sort of have sort of failed. Ryan

581
00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:05,520
Speaker 2: and I've talked before, I think we've talked before too,

582
00:28:05,560 --> 00:28:08,160
Speaker 2: about how there are echoes of the early seventies, when

583
00:28:08,320 --> 00:28:12,080
Speaker 2: you had these big social movements in the sixties, there's

584
00:28:12,080 --> 00:28:14,280
Speaker 2: the sense that they don't amount to what they wanted

585
00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:16,960
Speaker 2: them to amount to, and everybody, instead of continuing to

586
00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:19,399
Speaker 2: engage in these collective projects, then a lot of the

587
00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:24,920
Speaker 2: counterculture gets subsumed by mass media, by mass advertisements, and

588
00:28:25,280 --> 00:28:28,600
Speaker 2: people go back to the land into these little individualistic

589
00:28:28,760 --> 00:28:30,960
Speaker 2: like let's go live on a commune project, and you

590
00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:33,679
Speaker 2: can see echoes of this and like, you know, the

591
00:28:33,680 --> 00:28:35,680
Speaker 2: they're similar sort of like back to the land, mostly

592
00:28:35,720 --> 00:28:36,080
Speaker 2: on the right.

593
00:28:36,119 --> 00:28:38,640
Speaker 4: Actually movements mahas kind of MAHA is.

594
00:28:38,640 --> 00:28:41,480
Speaker 2: Like an expression of that, instead of we're not going

595
00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:43,480
Speaker 2: for medicare for all anymore. Now, we're just going to

596
00:28:43,520 --> 00:28:45,040
Speaker 2: try to We're going to like try to do these

597
00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:48,720
Speaker 2: little individual changes. We're going to go into the like

598
00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:52,840
Speaker 2: health influencer culture and make it all about the individual

599
00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:55,240
Speaker 2: pursuit of Okay, well what can I do since these

600
00:28:55,280 --> 00:28:58,760
Speaker 2: collective pursuits have largely failed? So I think that sort

601
00:28:58,760 --> 00:29:02,520
Speaker 2: of dovetails into these tistics as well. But you know

602
00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:06,280
Speaker 2: it's not good. No, it's having trying to raise kids

603
00:29:06,280 --> 00:29:08,440
Speaker 2: and you being a new dad. You look at these

604
00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:10,400
Speaker 2: trends and you know, I listened to like some of

605
00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:12,520
Speaker 2: the content that you know, my son in particular is

606
00:29:12,560 --> 00:29:15,040
Speaker 2: consuming on YouTube, and it's like this is this is

607
00:29:15,120 --> 00:29:19,800
Speaker 2: really this is really pushing us in a very atomized,

608
00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:23,840
Speaker 2: divided direction where you really you really don't even end

609
00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:25,560
Speaker 2: up with a society at the end of the day.

610
00:29:25,640 --> 00:29:27,440
Speaker 1: It's crazy. So I read a lot of books about

611
00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:30,520
Speaker 1: early Washington and about how it all worked and even

612
00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:34,000
Speaker 1: early social life. The amount of socialization that people did

613
00:29:34,040 --> 00:29:37,000
Speaker 1: back in the day is crazy. I'm talking about five

614
00:29:37,120 --> 00:29:39,800
Speaker 1: to six nights a week, which I can't even imagine

615
00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:42,320
Speaker 1: right now. I mean host this show, but apparently the

616
00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:46,400
Speaker 1: predecessors of the nineteen fifties and sixties they were hanging

617
00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:48,760
Speaker 1: out all the time, all the time. And in fact,

618
00:29:49,280 --> 00:29:52,920
Speaker 1: what you had was a scenario where the television, yes

619
00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:55,840
Speaker 1: it existed, but it was just three networks and the

620
00:29:55,920 --> 00:29:58,520
Speaker 1: nightly news was only thirty Can you imagine all of

621
00:29:58,520 --> 00:30:01,000
Speaker 1: the news in the world delivered in minutes, So you

622
00:30:01,040 --> 00:30:03,080
Speaker 1: had a lot of time to fill your day. People

623
00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:04,880
Speaker 1: read a lot more, and they also just talked a

624
00:30:04,920 --> 00:30:07,360
Speaker 1: lot more. They would come together people playing cards, bowling

625
00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:10,720
Speaker 1: alone is a perfect example. But socialization was massive, and

626
00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:14,160
Speaker 1: also intra socialization in different neighborhoods. I literally don't even

627
00:30:14,200 --> 00:30:15,960
Speaker 1: know my neighbor's name. I don't know, but I mean

628
00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:17,440
Speaker 1: he doesn't have any children, so it's like, well, do

629
00:30:17,520 --> 00:30:19,360
Speaker 1: I even particularly need to know who he is? And

630
00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:22,040
Speaker 1: then most of them are actually older, they're all like

631
00:30:22,080 --> 00:30:25,520
Speaker 1: sixty five plus. But my point broadly is just that

632
00:30:25,640 --> 00:30:29,560
Speaker 1: you don't really have a scenario where you have like

633
00:30:29,800 --> 00:30:34,200
Speaker 1: either forced or encouraged social norms around polite conversation, around

634
00:30:34,240 --> 00:30:36,720
Speaker 1: getting people to know each other. This is a painting

635
00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:38,320
Speaker 1: with a very broad brush. I live in one of

636
00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:40,360
Speaker 1: the most urban environments in the United States, so it's

637
00:30:40,360 --> 00:30:44,000
Speaker 1: going to be very different than a suburb in Illinois

638
00:30:44,120 --> 00:30:46,320
Speaker 1: or something like that. I'm sure some of it still exists,

639
00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:49,800
Speaker 1: but broadly you see it on the decline. Internet is

640
00:30:49,840 --> 00:30:52,640
Speaker 1: an accelerant to it. Like you said, television was kind

641
00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:54,480
Speaker 1: of gen one of all of this. I remember reading

642
00:30:54,480 --> 00:30:56,600
Speaker 1: a study. I think it's like in ninety eight people

643
00:30:56,640 --> 00:30:58,960
Speaker 1: were watching six to eight hours of TV per day.

644
00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:00,680
Speaker 1: I mean it's the same thing, though, is that anything

645
00:31:00,680 --> 00:31:03,280
Speaker 1: that kind of keeps you from distraction, or it keeps

646
00:31:03,280 --> 00:31:06,240
Speaker 1: you from going outside or engaging in different things, is

647
00:31:06,280 --> 00:31:09,240
Speaker 1: broadly going to encourage atomization. You know another thing, I

648
00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:13,400
Speaker 1: saw this fascinating new discussion around houses about how you know,

649
00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:17,000
Speaker 1: if you look at the houses most fetishized today, they're

650
00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:21,560
Speaker 1: kind of the two thousand's MTV. You know, what was

651
00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:24,080
Speaker 1: it like what the crib show? I forget exactly what

652
00:31:24,080 --> 00:31:28,000
Speaker 1: it's called cribs, all right. So at that time, though,

653
00:31:28,080 --> 00:31:31,360
Speaker 1: what these are the new mcmnsions fifty five hundred square

654
00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:35,360
Speaker 1: feet with a movie theater and all the bar backyard.

655
00:31:35,440 --> 00:31:38,200
Speaker 1: And the point that somebody made was is that as

656
00:31:38,240 --> 00:31:42,400
Speaker 1: America becomes more isolated, people take all the old social

657
00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:45,400
Speaker 1: experiences and then want to put them in their own

658
00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:47,920
Speaker 1: home so they never have to leave. Yeah. I was like, wow,

659
00:31:48,040 --> 00:31:51,000
Speaker 1: I never thought about that, but it actually seems very true.

660
00:31:51,080 --> 00:31:52,560
Speaker 1: Is that we're taking all the stuff that people you

661
00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:54,920
Speaker 1: used to do on the outside and basically trying to

662
00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:57,160
Speaker 1: put it on the inside. I understand on an interpersonal

663
00:31:57,200 --> 00:31:58,520
Speaker 1: level why you may want all that because you don't

664
00:31:58,520 --> 00:32:00,640
Speaker 1: want to leave. It's kind of annoying. Actually it's also

665
00:32:00,880 --> 00:32:03,440
Speaker 1: very expensive. But that's my point is just that like

666
00:32:03,680 --> 00:32:07,280
Speaker 1: the culture is moving to moving much more away from

667
00:32:07,600 --> 00:32:10,320
Speaker 1: polite conversation, from engaging in society, and of course the

668
00:32:10,360 --> 00:32:12,600
Speaker 1: economy has a huge part to play in it. I

669
00:32:12,600 --> 00:32:14,440
Speaker 1: was actually looking at movie ticket prices. It used to

670
00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:16,400
Speaker 1: be quite affordable back in the seventies. Yeah, and in

671
00:32:16,440 --> 00:32:18,680
Speaker 1: the eighties. Nowadays, forget about it, what is it you know?

672
00:32:18,760 --> 00:32:21,960
Speaker 1: Fifteen twenty dollars just a single movie on top of

673
00:32:22,040 --> 00:32:23,440
Speaker 1: popcorner and any of those.

674
00:32:23,560 --> 00:32:24,720
Speaker 4: Luxury movie experience.

675
00:32:24,800 --> 00:32:28,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know draft hours very nice, yeah, always nice,

676
00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:30,040
Speaker 2: also very expensive, exactly.

677
00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:30,680
Speaker 1: Yeah.

678
00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:32,360
Speaker 2: When I was a kid growing up, we actually had

679
00:32:32,360 --> 00:32:35,600
Speaker 2: a dollar movie theater maybe thirty minutes from my house.

680
00:32:35,680 --> 00:32:37,480
Speaker 2: And it wasn't the new movies, but it was like,

681
00:32:37,520 --> 00:32:39,360
Speaker 2: you know, ones that were like a season behind, and

682
00:32:39,360 --> 00:32:40,400
Speaker 2: that's where we always went.

683
00:32:40,520 --> 00:32:42,360
Speaker 4: And you know, family of five, pay.

684
00:32:42,280 --> 00:32:45,840
Speaker 2: Five bucks for tickets plus tax sneak in your mike

685
00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:47,960
Speaker 2: and I extend your first from the dollar general store

686
00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:50,680
Speaker 2: and you're good to go. And that you know, that

687
00:32:51,320 --> 00:32:53,680
Speaker 2: opportunity does not exist. In fact, the trend is all

688
00:32:53,680 --> 00:32:56,280
Speaker 2: in the other direction, because the people have money are

689
00:32:56,480 --> 00:32:59,600
Speaker 2: you know, where advertisers, where companies want to serve to,

690
00:32:59,720 --> 00:33:02,959
Speaker 2: and so increasingly, you know, it's consolidating the luxury end

691
00:33:03,120 --> 00:33:06,000
Speaker 2: of the market because you want to tap the people

692
00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:09,080
Speaker 2: who have the largest amount of wealth. You know, I

693
00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:12,800
Speaker 2: think too about in terms of public policy, because some

694
00:33:12,840 --> 00:33:14,960
Speaker 2: of this is culture, but some a lot of culture

695
00:33:15,080 --> 00:33:17,880
Speaker 2: is driven from the top. And you know, in the

696
00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:20,360
Speaker 2: New Deal era, you did have this, you had a

697
00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:23,160
Speaker 2: collective project going on, and you had so much building

698
00:33:23,280 --> 00:33:25,560
Speaker 2: of like public parks, I mean the parks that you

699
00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:28,920
Speaker 2: and I still love and use, the national parks, you know,

700
00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:30,760
Speaker 2: the state parks that were built out. Virginia had some

701
00:33:30,840 --> 00:33:36,200
Speaker 2: fantastic state parks, Like so many of those public communal

702
00:33:36,440 --> 00:33:40,640
Speaker 2: amenities were built in a previous era. And so of course,

703
00:33:40,760 --> 00:33:44,560
Speaker 2: if those like public facilities are not going to be

704
00:33:44,800 --> 00:33:47,640
Speaker 2: you know, provided for in the community, then increasingly you're

705
00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:49,720
Speaker 2: going to be turning to Okay, well, then I have

706
00:33:49,760 --> 00:33:52,240
Speaker 2: to pay to go to this private you know, private pool,

707
00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:54,120
Speaker 2: or I have to have it in my own house

708
00:33:54,200 --> 00:33:56,680
Speaker 2: and you know, bring people in to my own or

709
00:33:56,800 --> 00:33:59,480
Speaker 2: just engage in that on my own time. So I

710
00:33:59,480 --> 00:34:02,440
Speaker 2: think those to public policy choices also make a big difference.

711
00:34:02,480 --> 00:34:05,520
Speaker 2: Actually went down a weird rabbit hole they're building in Manhattan.

712
00:34:05,520 --> 00:34:08,920
Speaker 2: I think it's in Manhattan. A pool that like is

713
00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:12,640
Speaker 2: on the river uses the river water. It looks amazing.

714
00:34:12,719 --> 00:34:15,240
Speaker 2: It's like an Olympic sized pool. It's a really cool design.

715
00:34:15,560 --> 00:34:17,800
Speaker 2: And they have this filtration system to like clean the

716
00:34:17,880 --> 00:34:20,040
Speaker 2: river water. So not only are you filling the pool,

717
00:34:20,040 --> 00:34:22,200
Speaker 2: but then that clean water goes into the river to

718
00:34:22,280 --> 00:34:24,839
Speaker 2: like refurbish the river as well. And I went down

719
00:34:24,880 --> 00:34:27,440
Speaker 2: this deep dive of they used to have tons of

720
00:34:27,480 --> 00:34:29,520
Speaker 2: these pools in New York City. It was like a

721
00:34:29,560 --> 00:34:32,640
Speaker 2: whole thing in the early nineteen hundreds of you know,

722
00:34:32,760 --> 00:34:36,120
Speaker 2: building pools in the river and building pools in general,

723
00:34:36,160 --> 00:34:38,920
Speaker 2: like bath houses, and there was this whole city wide

724
00:34:38,960 --> 00:34:41,480
Speaker 2: project of we need to make sure we have public

725
00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:44,880
Speaker 2: facilities for people to be able to use, and you know,

726
00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:48,160
Speaker 2: it was it was very successful in terms of providing

727
00:34:48,200 --> 00:34:50,600
Speaker 2: people with resources. And again we're still sort of like

728
00:34:50,719 --> 00:34:52,600
Speaker 2: drawing on those resources to this day.

729
00:34:52,760 --> 00:34:55,520
Speaker 4: And you know, that's one area.

730
00:34:55,239 --> 00:34:58,320
Speaker 2: Where I think we really need to reinvest in those

731
00:34:58,360 --> 00:35:03,080
Speaker 2: sorts of publicly available facilities that actually do bring people together.

732
00:35:03,080 --> 00:35:04,279
Speaker 4: And that aren't expensive.

733
00:35:04,719 --> 00:35:06,880
Speaker 2: In our town, the YMCA, which is you know, it's

734
00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:10,280
Speaker 2: not a state funded institution, but it's made.

735
00:35:10,040 --> 00:35:12,080
Speaker 4: To be lower costs and supported.

736
00:35:11,640 --> 00:35:15,480
Speaker 2: By donations and whatever sort of serves that serves that purpose.

737
00:35:15,560 --> 00:35:17,439
Speaker 2: But there needs to be so much more of that

738
00:35:17,480 --> 00:35:19,360
Speaker 2: to try to get people out of their homes and

739
00:35:19,400 --> 00:35:21,759
Speaker 2: try to bring communities back together, because it makes a

740
00:35:21,760 --> 00:35:23,279
Speaker 2: big difference. I mean, I live in the same town

741
00:35:23,280 --> 00:35:26,520
Speaker 2: where I grew up and just over the course of

742
00:35:26,640 --> 00:35:29,279
Speaker 2: that time, it still has that small town vibe if

743
00:35:29,280 --> 00:35:31,200
Speaker 2: you see you know the parents that are you know

744
00:35:31,200 --> 00:35:33,759
Speaker 2: at your kid's school, and the school certainly serves as

745
00:35:33,760 --> 00:35:37,160
Speaker 2: like a hub of activity, but it isn't. It's larger,

746
00:35:37,280 --> 00:35:39,600
Speaker 2: that's one thing, but it also it doesn't have the

747
00:35:39,760 --> 00:35:43,160
Speaker 2: same level of cohesiveness that it did when I was

748
00:35:43,160 --> 00:35:46,040
Speaker 2: a kid, where I literally knew, like, this person's in

749
00:35:46,040 --> 00:35:47,759
Speaker 2: that house, this person's that I know the kid, I

750
00:35:47,800 --> 00:35:49,879
Speaker 2: know their brother, I know their parents, like the whole bit.

751
00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:51,160
Speaker 2: It's just not quite the same thing.

752
00:35:51,239 --> 00:35:53,839
Speaker 1: It makes sense. I mean, that's where public safety also

753
00:35:53,880 --> 00:35:56,480
Speaker 1: comes in, where where bigger cities, you know, if you

754
00:35:56,520 --> 00:35:58,320
Speaker 1: don't feel safe, then you're going to exit from a

755
00:35:58,320 --> 00:36:00,359
Speaker 1: lot of these public spaces that get taken over by

756
00:36:00,400 --> 00:36:02,960
Speaker 1: the bottom one percent. So that's a big problem. You

757
00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:05,959
Speaker 1: need higher trust in society. Let's go ahead and put

758
00:36:06,200 --> 00:36:08,680
Speaker 1: this B five please up on the screen, because this

759
00:36:08,760 --> 00:36:11,360
Speaker 1: is indicative of the Internet portion of all of this.

760
00:36:11,360 --> 00:36:14,440
Speaker 1: This is by far the biggest social Internet transformation of

761
00:36:14,480 --> 00:36:17,880
Speaker 1: my lifetime. Is that Meta says that most of the

762
00:36:17,920 --> 00:36:22,080
Speaker 1: time on Facebook and Instagram is just spent watching videos.

763
00:36:22,080 --> 00:36:25,360
Speaker 1: Only seven percent of the time on Instagram and seventeen

764
00:36:25,400 --> 00:36:28,920
Speaker 1: percent of time on Facebook involves consuming content from friends. Now,

765
00:36:28,960 --> 00:36:32,160
Speaker 1: if you're old like me and you're thirty three, well,

766
00:36:32,280 --> 00:36:35,960
Speaker 1: the Facebook of my youth was the newsfeed, which was

767
00:36:36,040 --> 00:36:38,960
Speaker 1: just of your friends. The idea that anything not involving

768
00:36:39,000 --> 00:36:41,480
Speaker 1: your friends on there, it would be preposterous. You would

769
00:36:41,760 --> 00:36:43,960
Speaker 1: spend one hundred percent of your time engaging with your

770
00:36:43,960 --> 00:36:46,560
Speaker 1: friend's content. Same with the early Instagram. It is just

771
00:36:46,600 --> 00:36:49,920
Speaker 1: a way to share photos. The photo dumps on early Facebook,

772
00:36:49,960 --> 00:36:51,799
Speaker 1: you know, where people would upload hundreds of photos from

773
00:36:51,800 --> 00:36:53,279
Speaker 1: the night before. People would tag each other. It was

774
00:36:53,360 --> 00:36:56,640
Speaker 1: actually like a real game even photo Facebook events and

775
00:36:56,680 --> 00:36:59,120
Speaker 1: groups and other types of things were used as like

776
00:36:59,200 --> 00:37:03,040
Speaker 1: social things. You start parties whatever. That is just not

777
00:37:03,200 --> 00:37:06,040
Speaker 1: how people engage with social media anymore. It's not about

778
00:37:06,040 --> 00:37:09,320
Speaker 1: content developed by your friends. It's about content developed by others,

779
00:37:09,360 --> 00:37:12,239
Speaker 1: hence the rise of the so called influencer culture. In

780
00:37:12,280 --> 00:37:14,840
Speaker 1: some ways it makes sense is that your friends are

781
00:37:14,880 --> 00:37:17,400
Speaker 1: probably not very good at making engaging content. But if

782
00:37:17,440 --> 00:37:20,240
Speaker 1: you take the entire world and you have them create

783
00:37:20,280 --> 00:37:22,440
Speaker 1: content and the top one percent will be consumed by

784
00:37:22,440 --> 00:37:24,880
Speaker 1: the bottom ninety nine percent, that makes sense at an

785
00:37:24,920 --> 00:37:28,480
Speaker 1: engagement level. It doesn't mean that it's good in terms

786
00:37:28,520 --> 00:37:31,799
Speaker 1: of engaging with other people. It used to be a

787
00:37:31,800 --> 00:37:33,880
Speaker 1: way to see what your friends are up to, and

788
00:37:33,920 --> 00:37:36,399
Speaker 1: now it's just a way to continue watching short form

789
00:37:36,480 --> 00:37:38,399
Speaker 1: video on whatever platform of your choice.

790
00:37:38,520 --> 00:37:40,080
Speaker 4: Creating your own person, creating your.

791
00:37:40,040 --> 00:37:42,200
Speaker 1: Own personal brand. Yeah, I mean I'm guilty of this,

792
00:37:42,280 --> 00:37:44,720
Speaker 1: right my Instagram account. Yeah, this is our job exactly.

793
00:37:45,120 --> 00:37:48,000
Speaker 1: My Instagram account used to be like my personal Instagram account,

794
00:37:48,040 --> 00:37:50,960
Speaker 1: and now it's you know, basically just for professional purposes.

795
00:37:50,960 --> 00:37:52,040
Speaker 1: What do you got to do? You got to exist

796
00:37:52,080 --> 00:37:54,960
Speaker 1: in the world. But it's still one of those watching.

797
00:37:55,800 --> 00:37:59,560
Speaker 1: The way that that has shifted over time is one

798
00:37:59,760 --> 00:38:02,440
Speaker 1: which at a societal wide level is really bad for

799
00:38:02,520 --> 00:38:05,759
Speaker 1: just encouraging intra personal engagement. I don't really know how

800
00:38:05,760 --> 00:38:08,200
Speaker 1: it looks, but what it actually just tells me and

801
00:38:08,200 --> 00:38:09,920
Speaker 1: I don't know if it's called which way is causal

802
00:38:10,280 --> 00:38:14,320
Speaker 1: is whether the social media use reflects personal preferences or

803
00:38:14,360 --> 00:38:17,160
Speaker 1: personal preference is shaped by that is, at the end

804
00:38:17,160 --> 00:38:20,360
Speaker 1: of the day, it discourages socialization. And that's bad. Yeah.

805
00:38:20,400 --> 00:38:23,840
Speaker 2: No, I mean there's a literal monetary incentive to creating

806
00:38:23,880 --> 00:38:27,480
Speaker 2: content that's not for not just like interacting with friends,

807
00:38:27,600 --> 00:38:30,560
Speaker 2: but is for the world. And you know, those incentives

808
00:38:30,600 --> 00:38:32,840
Speaker 2: are created by the platform, but I think also as

809
00:38:32,880 --> 00:38:37,640
Speaker 2: an expression of this increasingly individualized society and obsession with

810
00:38:37,840 --> 00:38:43,120
Speaker 2: individual pursuits that you know, the personality trends reflect as well.

811
00:38:43,200 --> 00:38:44,960
Speaker 1: Totally agree. All right, let's get to the next part.

812
00:38:47,840 --> 00:38:51,439
Speaker 2: So we recently received the news that Israel murdered five

813
00:38:51,600 --> 00:38:54,960
Speaker 2: Al Jazeera journalists, among them Annas al Sharif, who was

814
00:38:55,040 --> 00:38:58,920
Speaker 2: a very well known correspondent for Al Jazeera. Joining us

815
00:38:58,920 --> 00:39:02,160
Speaker 2: now to discuss his work and this all on assault

816
00:39:02,160 --> 00:39:04,440
Speaker 2: on journalists is Shreif abdel Kutus.

817
00:39:04,560 --> 00:39:07,120
Speaker 4: He is the Nina editor for Drop site News.

818
00:39:07,160 --> 00:39:09,400
Speaker 1: Great to see you, Sharif, Good to you, Thank you

819
00:39:09,440 --> 00:39:09,920
Speaker 1: for having me.

820
00:39:10,200 --> 00:39:14,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, of course, so you interviewed Annas back several months back.

821
00:39:14,160 --> 00:39:15,160
Speaker 4: I remember reading this piece.

822
00:39:15,160 --> 00:39:17,240
Speaker 2: We can put this up on the screen actually, about

823
00:39:17,520 --> 00:39:21,320
Speaker 2: what it had been like for him covering this genocide,

824
00:39:21,320 --> 00:39:25,440
Speaker 2: you say, Israel's genocide Gaza every day for eleven straight months.

825
00:39:25,760 --> 00:39:28,239
Speaker 4: What was it like interacting with him? And you know,

826
00:39:28,400 --> 00:39:29,000
Speaker 4: what did.

827
00:39:28,880 --> 00:39:30,839
Speaker 2: You make of the comments he made at that time

828
00:39:30,880 --> 00:39:32,400
Speaker 2: and his legacy that he's left behind.

829
00:39:32,719 --> 00:39:35,839
Speaker 5: You know, there are no words. I don't know what

830
00:39:35,880 --> 00:39:40,400
Speaker 5: to say anymore. You know, words aren't enough at this point.

831
00:39:40,520 --> 00:39:44,360
Speaker 5: Action is required. Words did not save Vanasa Hidif and

832
00:39:44,520 --> 00:39:48,600
Speaker 5: his colleagues. And there's a there's a certain level of

833
00:39:48,640 --> 00:39:53,719
Speaker 5: brazenness now that how Israel is killing these journalists. And

834
00:39:53,719 --> 00:39:56,760
Speaker 5: I just want to tell people that the other journalist's names,

835
00:39:57,480 --> 00:40:01,080
Speaker 5: so Israel bumded media tempt opposite, but just outside of

836
00:40:01,080 --> 00:40:09,399
Speaker 5: Sheffa hospital intentionally killing Anna Sashidiv and Mohammad Kareka, who

837
00:40:09,440 --> 00:40:12,720
Speaker 5: is also correspondent for Al Jazeera, and camera operators Abrahim

838
00:40:12,800 --> 00:40:16,480
Speaker 5: Zoher Moment Aliwa and Hahmad Noufal. And there was a

839
00:40:16,480 --> 00:40:19,160
Speaker 5: six journalist also killed who worked for an outlet called

840
00:40:19,239 --> 00:40:26,040
Speaker 5: Sahatu's hammadr Hledi. You know Ennas he was just twenty

841
00:40:26,080 --> 00:40:30,480
Speaker 5: eight years old. He was probably the most prominent Palestinian

842
00:40:30,560 --> 00:40:34,280
Speaker 5: journalist who was still alive and still in Gaza reporting

843
00:40:34,960 --> 00:40:40,400
Speaker 5: a face recognizable across the Arab world and internationally. He

844
00:40:40,520 --> 00:40:45,000
Speaker 5: remained in the North throughout the entire twenty two months

845
00:40:45,239 --> 00:40:48,280
Speaker 5: gen Saddle assault, one of just a handful of journalists

846
00:40:48,320 --> 00:40:50,879
Speaker 5: who never left the North, and he was a near

847
00:40:50,960 --> 00:40:57,560
Speaker 5: constant presence on television online reporting almost every day on

848
00:40:57,960 --> 00:41:05,640
Speaker 5: air strikes, shelling, massacres, displacement, famine, death dismemberment and whenever

849
00:41:05,680 --> 00:41:10,040
Speaker 5: he could on glimpses of hope and resilience, Palestinian resilience,

850
00:41:10,719 --> 00:41:16,839
Speaker 5: and Israel assassinated him. And as his last tweet to

851
00:41:17,040 --> 00:41:20,440
Speaker 5: his more than five hundred and sixty thousand followers, just

852
00:41:20,520 --> 00:41:25,440
Speaker 5: before he was killed, he said, relentless bombardment for two hours.

853
00:41:25,440 --> 00:41:29,200
Speaker 5: The Israeli aggression has intensified on Gaza City. And we

854
00:41:29,280 --> 00:41:34,759
Speaker 5: know that Israel's security Cabinet approved Netanyahu's plan to take

855
00:41:34,800 --> 00:41:41,279
Speaker 5: control of Gaza City in the latest escalation of this genocide.

856
00:41:42,160 --> 00:41:45,880
Speaker 5: Barely an hour earlier before he was killed, he warned

857
00:41:46,640 --> 00:41:49,040
Speaker 5: about this. He said, Israel's planning a full scale invasion

858
00:41:49,080 --> 00:41:52,560
Speaker 5: of Gaza City. And I'm just going to quote he said,

859
00:41:53,400 --> 00:41:56,640
Speaker 5: if this madness does not end, Gaza will be reduced

860
00:41:56,640 --> 00:42:01,080
Speaker 5: to ruins. It's people's voices silenced, their faces raised, and

861
00:42:01,239 --> 00:42:05,239
Speaker 5: history will remember you as silent witnesses to a genocide.

862
00:42:05,280 --> 00:42:08,440
Speaker 5: You chose not to stop, And he set silence is complicity,

863
00:42:08,520 --> 00:42:12,680
Speaker 5: and barely an hour later he's killed. And it's not

864
00:42:12,840 --> 00:42:17,480
Speaker 5: just silence. I mean the world's governments, corporations, media elites

865
00:42:17,760 --> 00:42:23,280
Speaker 5: have not just stood by as Israel's committing these acts

866
00:42:23,280 --> 00:42:27,399
Speaker 5: of genocide. They have enabled it. You know, there's now

867
00:42:27,400 --> 00:42:29,880
Speaker 5: two hundred and thirty eight journalists killed, according to the

868
00:42:29,920 --> 00:42:32,279
Speaker 5: government Media Office in Gaza. Two hundred and thirty eight.

869
00:42:33,280 --> 00:42:35,920
Speaker 5: These journalists have been bombed, they've been shot, they've been

870
00:42:35,920 --> 00:42:40,160
Speaker 5: burned alive, they've been decapitated, They've been taunted and targeted.

871
00:42:41,200 --> 00:42:43,800
Speaker 5: And that's not to mention the journalists wounded, the journalists

872
00:42:43,800 --> 00:42:46,400
Speaker 5: in prison, the journalists who made this impossible decision to

873
00:42:46,480 --> 00:42:50,279
Speaker 5: leave Gaza because life was no longer sustainable there. And

874
00:42:50,520 --> 00:42:53,399
Speaker 5: in a very very real way, the only reason we

875
00:42:53,480 --> 00:42:56,560
Speaker 5: know about what is happening in Gaza is because of

876
00:42:56,600 --> 00:43:02,120
Speaker 5: Palestinian reporters who are performing the most heroic act of

877
00:43:02,200 --> 00:43:05,919
Speaker 5: journalism we will see in our lifetimes. And they're being

878
00:43:05,960 --> 00:43:10,280
Speaker 5: intentionally slaughtered and intentionally targeted for this and the Israeli military.

879
00:43:10,280 --> 00:43:12,600
Speaker 5: I have to remind people Israeli military was openly and

880
00:43:12,600 --> 00:43:15,799
Speaker 5: publicly threatening and he said this in an interview I

881
00:43:15,840 --> 00:43:20,040
Speaker 5: did with him, openly and publicly threatening Anasyschidif for months.

882
00:43:20,920 --> 00:43:25,200
Speaker 5: Back in November of twenty twenty three, he reported receiving

883
00:43:25,239 --> 00:43:28,840
Speaker 5: calls from Israeli officers telling him to seize his coverage,

884
00:43:28,880 --> 00:43:32,920
Speaker 5: telling him to leave the north and go south, getting

885
00:43:33,520 --> 00:43:40,560
Speaker 5: location messages on his WhatsApp as threats. You know, they

886
00:43:40,680 --> 00:43:43,280
Speaker 5: bombed his after he got those location threats. They bombed

887
00:43:43,320 --> 00:43:47,239
Speaker 5: his house in Jabellia, killing his ninety year old father,

888
00:43:48,040 --> 00:43:51,360
Speaker 5: and the threats only escalated from there. Last October, he

889
00:43:51,520 --> 00:43:54,600
Speaker 5: was one of six Al Jazeera journalists that Israel put

890
00:43:54,760 --> 00:43:58,200
Speaker 5: on what is essentially a hit list, saying that they're

891
00:43:58,239 --> 00:44:01,319
Speaker 5: all militants and taunting them online. One of them was

892
00:44:01,640 --> 00:44:04,040
Speaker 5: Hasem Shabbett, who used to report for drop site, and

893
00:44:04,040 --> 00:44:07,719
Speaker 5: he was assassinated in March, and the Israeli military boasted

894
00:44:07,760 --> 00:44:11,240
Speaker 5: about his killing and said, quote, don't let the press

895
00:44:11,320 --> 00:44:15,000
Speaker 5: vest fool you. And then the Israeli military continued to

896
00:44:15,080 --> 00:44:18,280
Speaker 5: openly threaten enus, especially in the last couple of weeks.

897
00:44:18,360 --> 00:44:22,080
Speaker 5: Nas himself repeatedly called on the world to do something.

898
00:44:22,560 --> 00:44:26,600
Speaker 5: Just a couple of weeks ago, he posted that he

899
00:44:26,760 --> 00:44:29,000
Speaker 5: was being threatened and he said, this is an attempt

900
00:44:29,080 --> 00:44:31,520
Speaker 5: to silence us, to cover up a genocide unfolding in

901
00:44:31,560 --> 00:44:35,120
Speaker 5: real time, and he said quote I call on international officials,

902
00:44:35,200 --> 00:44:37,799
Speaker 5: human rights defenders, and global media to speak out and

903
00:44:37,840 --> 00:44:41,040
Speaker 5: share this message. Your voice can help stop the targeting

904
00:44:41,080 --> 00:44:42,399
Speaker 5: of journalists and protect the truth.

905
00:44:43,239 --> 00:44:46,840
Speaker 1: Wow, Scharienne. One of the things that has been hypothesized

906
00:44:46,880 --> 00:44:50,720
Speaker 1: here is that Onas was killed largely because right now

907
00:44:50,760 --> 00:44:53,960
Speaker 1: is when Israel is moving into Gaza City. And we

908
00:44:54,000 --> 00:44:56,680
Speaker 1: also want to highlight what you said there about the

909
00:44:56,760 --> 00:44:59,560
Speaker 1: number of journalists who have actually been killed. Can we

910
00:44:59,600 --> 00:45:01,799
Speaker 1: put se for Police up on the screen just to

911
00:45:01,840 --> 00:45:05,120
Speaker 1: show everybody the contexts and the number of journalists who

912
00:45:05,120 --> 00:45:07,160
Speaker 1: have been killed here in this conflict, and you can

913
00:45:07,200 --> 00:45:09,719
Speaker 1: just see it's overwhelming, you know, in terms of the

914
00:45:09,800 --> 00:45:13,080
Speaker 1: Gaza War compared to Ukraine, the war in Afghanistan, for the

915
00:45:13,160 --> 00:45:16,799
Speaker 1: Yugoslav wars in Vietnam, it's unprecedented in modern history, and

916
00:45:16,800 --> 00:45:19,600
Speaker 1: particularly you know, by a so called civilized nation.

917
00:45:20,000 --> 00:45:24,960
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean I think they Israel essentially yesterday wiped

918
00:45:24,960 --> 00:45:31,600
Speaker 5: out Al Jazeera's Gaza City correspondence and crew and journalistic

919
00:45:31,640 --> 00:45:38,440
Speaker 5: crew ahead of this what is expected to be a

920
00:45:38,480 --> 00:45:42,600
Speaker 5: horrific invasion of Gaza City to ethnically cleanse Gaza City

921
00:45:43,000 --> 00:45:47,120
Speaker 5: and displays forcibly displaces everyone there again to the south,

922
00:45:49,280 --> 00:45:53,319
Speaker 5: and you know, losing en Us and losing these other journalists,

923
00:45:53,920 --> 00:45:55,960
Speaker 5: we are going to know less about what is happening

924
00:45:56,960 --> 00:46:02,879
Speaker 5: as this is unfolding and yeah, there's something, there's something else.

925
00:46:03,000 --> 00:46:09,800
Speaker 5: Is just so horrific that journalists like Ennas and Hasemshabad,

926
00:46:09,840 --> 00:46:13,440
Speaker 5: who's to report for drop site. He pre wrote a

927
00:46:13,480 --> 00:46:18,320
Speaker 5: message anticipating his death that he knew would be published

928
00:46:18,320 --> 00:46:21,600
Speaker 5: after he was killed. Can you imagine working in these circumstances.

929
00:46:21,600 --> 00:46:24,879
Speaker 5: He's twenty eight years old, knowing you're going to be killed,

930
00:46:25,120 --> 00:46:26,960
Speaker 5: and knowing that the world is likely not going to

931
00:46:26,960 --> 00:46:31,879
Speaker 5: stop it, you know. And in his message he says

932
00:46:31,920 --> 00:46:34,080
Speaker 5: some very important things. He says that he was born

933
00:46:34,120 --> 00:46:37,520
Speaker 5: in Jabelia at the refugee camp. He reminds people that

934
00:46:38,239 --> 00:46:42,120
Speaker 5: he dreamed that his family could return to their land

935
00:46:42,640 --> 00:46:44,719
Speaker 5: and home that they were expelled from in nineteen forty

936
00:46:44,719 --> 00:46:46,799
Speaker 5: eight and what is now at the Israeli time of

937
00:46:47,000 --> 00:46:50,880
Speaker 5: Ashkalon or Amazhdan. He reminds people the most Palestinians in

938
00:46:50,920 --> 00:46:53,680
Speaker 5: Gaza are not from Gaza, the refugees, and then he

939
00:46:53,719 --> 00:46:56,360
Speaker 5: writes of the suffering that you know, he bore witness

940
00:46:56,440 --> 00:47:01,239
Speaker 5: to and that he also endured. And he again, you know,

941
00:47:01,440 --> 00:47:05,320
Speaker 5: kind of points the finger at the world that watched

942
00:47:05,320 --> 00:47:08,400
Speaker 5: this happen and is watching this happen and is allowing

943
00:47:08,440 --> 00:47:11,920
Speaker 5: it to happen. And those were his final words to

944
00:47:12,040 --> 00:47:14,040
Speaker 5: the world, and he said, you know, don't forget us.

945
00:47:14,280 --> 00:47:16,759
Speaker 5: And when I spoke to him and asked to me, no,

946
00:47:17,360 --> 00:47:20,319
Speaker 5: he said, like a ten minute voice note response. His

947
00:47:20,440 --> 00:47:25,000
Speaker 5: voice was wary but firm, and you know, I asked him,

948
00:47:25,000 --> 00:47:29,479
Speaker 5: why do you keep doing this? And he said, I'll

949
00:47:29,480 --> 00:47:31,319
Speaker 5: also quote from him. I'm sorry I'm quoting so much

950
00:47:31,320 --> 00:47:34,080
Speaker 5: from him, but I think his words are important. He said,

951
00:47:34,120 --> 00:47:37,120
Speaker 5: maybe the world won't act, maybe the world won't help us,

952
00:47:37,400 --> 00:47:39,480
Speaker 5: but there might be a motive to stop this war.

953
00:47:39,680 --> 00:47:42,600
Speaker 5: Every time I document a massacre or event or bombing,

954
00:47:43,000 --> 00:47:45,680
Speaker 5: I think that maybe through this bombing or this image,

955
00:47:45,920 --> 00:47:48,200
Speaker 5: that the war could stop and this war could end.

956
00:47:48,800 --> 00:47:51,600
Speaker 5: This drives us to continue in our coverage to our

957
00:47:51,680 --> 00:47:54,120
Speaker 5: last breath. And he did it to his last breath.

958
00:47:54,200 --> 00:47:56,759
Speaker 2: Well, and we know Israel considered him dangerous. That's why

959
00:47:56,800 --> 00:48:00,000
Speaker 2: they and the information he was sharing with the world dangerous.

960
00:48:00,200 --> 00:48:04,000
Speaker 2: That's why they assassinated him and his four colleagues working

961
00:48:04,000 --> 00:48:07,240
Speaker 2: for Al Jazeera. And the other thing that's really disgusting me, Sharif,

962
00:48:07,480 --> 00:48:11,960
Speaker 2: is the way that Western media has given Israel pass.

963
00:48:12,280 --> 00:48:15,600
Speaker 2: They have not student solidarity with these Palestinian journalists. There

964
00:48:15,640 --> 00:48:18,040
Speaker 2: have been pieces, you know, think pieces written about well,

965
00:48:18,080 --> 00:48:21,040
Speaker 2: do they even really count as journalists? You know, so

966
00:48:21,160 --> 00:48:24,200
Speaker 2: much credence given to consistent Israeli claims that, oh, well

967
00:48:24,239 --> 00:48:26,480
Speaker 2: they're really Hamas, which is preposterous, Like, you can see

968
00:48:26,480 --> 00:48:29,440
Speaker 2: this guy out there doing his job literally every single day.

969
00:48:29,760 --> 00:48:31,640
Speaker 2: At what point does he have time to go and

970
00:48:31,680 --> 00:48:36,000
Speaker 2: be a Hamas militant alongside live streaming his own you know,

971
00:48:36,120 --> 00:48:39,759
Speaker 2: genocide and ultimately murder at the hands of the Israelis

972
00:48:39,800 --> 00:48:42,359
Speaker 2: every single day. So that's been one of the things

973
00:48:42,360 --> 00:48:45,680
Speaker 2: that's really disgusted me, and there's been a consistent drum

974
00:48:45,680 --> 00:48:49,880
Speaker 2: beat two of Israel needs to let in the Western journalists,

975
00:48:49,920 --> 00:48:53,040
Speaker 2: and unfortunately, I think because of you know, anti urban,

976
00:48:53,080 --> 00:48:56,319
Speaker 2: anti Palestinian racism, I do think that those images being

977
00:48:56,400 --> 00:48:59,879
Speaker 2: shared by Western journalists may have more of an imp

978
00:49:00,320 --> 00:49:03,839
Speaker 2: but it shouldn't be that way. There are journalists in Palestine,

979
00:49:03,960 --> 00:49:07,200
Speaker 2: there are journalists in Gaza. It just happens that most

980
00:49:07,200 --> 00:49:11,400
Speaker 2: of them are Palestinian. So they're dismissed and their work

981
00:49:11,480 --> 00:49:15,280
Speaker 2: is minimized or called into question as to their motives

982
00:49:16,080 --> 00:49:18,480
Speaker 2: by oftentimes by liberal Western media.

983
00:49:18,520 --> 00:49:18,960
Speaker 1: Figures.

984
00:49:20,640 --> 00:49:25,200
Speaker 5: Look, I mean, I think international journalists should absolutely be

985
00:49:25,200 --> 00:49:29,799
Speaker 5: allowed into Gaza. Not because there we can question at

986
00:49:29,840 --> 00:49:35,080
Speaker 5: all the veracity and the strength of reporters in Palestine

987
00:49:35,160 --> 00:49:38,360
Speaker 5: in Gaza who are doing this, but for two reasons.

988
00:49:38,400 --> 00:49:41,359
Speaker 5: One is to shoulder the labor of covering this war.

989
00:49:42,360 --> 00:49:46,160
Speaker 5: They are covering this genocide absolutely by themselves, and I

990
00:49:46,160 --> 00:49:49,360
Speaker 5: think it's incumbent on international journists to help them in

991
00:49:49,360 --> 00:49:53,040
Speaker 5: this coverage. The second thing is because of this racism,

992
00:49:53,160 --> 00:49:58,080
Speaker 5: because of the way that Western media institutions and Western

993
00:49:58,160 --> 00:50:02,120
Speaker 5: governments see Palestinian journalists. Foreign journalists going in will act

994
00:50:02,160 --> 00:50:04,600
Speaker 5: as a shield in a certain way, as a shield

995
00:50:04,760 --> 00:50:07,360
Speaker 5: two people in Gaza as a shield to Palestinian journalists,

996
00:50:07,360 --> 00:50:08,759
Speaker 5: and I think that's why they need to go in.

997
00:50:09,320 --> 00:50:13,800
Speaker 5: The reaction to anas Is killing, I am still somehow

998
00:50:14,000 --> 00:50:17,279
Speaker 5: shocked by it, even though I shouldn't be after so

999
00:50:17,400 --> 00:50:22,680
Speaker 5: long by Western media institutions, the National Press Club called

1000
00:50:22,760 --> 00:50:27,239
Speaker 5: for a thorough and transparent examination of the circumstances surrounding

1001
00:50:27,400 --> 00:50:31,439
Speaker 5: NAS's death. What on earth does that mean? They're putting

1002
00:50:31,480 --> 00:50:35,360
Speaker 5: out a boilerplate statement calling for an investigation. Israel openly

1003
00:50:35,400 --> 00:50:38,960
Speaker 5: publicly threatened him for months they bombed the tentuos in

1004
00:50:39,040 --> 00:50:41,200
Speaker 5: and then they took credit for it and bragged about it.

1005
00:50:41,640 --> 00:50:45,880
Speaker 5: What investigation are you talking about? Reuters? The headline of

1006
00:50:45,920 --> 00:50:50,239
Speaker 5: Reuters is Israel kills Al Jazeer journalist. It says was

1007
00:50:50,280 --> 00:50:54,160
Speaker 5: Hamas leader, and then it goes on to quote to

1008
00:50:54,280 --> 00:50:57,960
Speaker 5: quote the Israeli military saying, you know, he was responsible

1009
00:50:58,000 --> 00:51:04,200
Speaker 5: for advancing rocket attacks or some of you know, preposterous claims.

1010
00:51:03,560 --> 00:51:11,560
Speaker 5: This is making this, it's enabling Israel to do this.

1011
00:51:12,080 --> 00:51:14,680
Speaker 5: And if we look, there's been a progression of brazenness

1012
00:51:14,719 --> 00:51:18,560
Speaker 5: of how Israel killed journalists in Palestine. In the beginning,

1013
00:51:19,239 --> 00:51:21,399
Speaker 5: they would deny that they killed them, or they would

1014
00:51:21,400 --> 00:51:24,400
Speaker 5: say it's collateral damage or that there was some mistake.

1015
00:51:25,280 --> 00:51:28,160
Speaker 5: Then they started claiming that the journalists were in fact

1016
00:51:28,160 --> 00:51:30,800
Speaker 5: militants after they killed them. They did this with Hamsea

1017
00:51:30,880 --> 00:51:35,600
Speaker 5: Dahdur in January to twenty four they produced some ridiculous

1018
00:51:35,600 --> 00:51:38,400
Speaker 5: documents claiming he's a Hamas militant or Slami jah Had

1019
00:51:38,440 --> 00:51:42,000
Speaker 5: I don't remember. Then they continue to step it up.

1020
00:51:42,280 --> 00:51:44,960
Speaker 5: They credit this hip list in October and they put

1021
00:51:45,000 --> 00:51:47,719
Speaker 5: six elder zero journalists and basically saying openly we're going

1022
00:51:47,800 --> 00:51:49,759
Speaker 5: to kill them, and now they've killed two of them.

1023
00:51:50,520 --> 00:51:53,320
Speaker 5: You know, they went even further. In April, they targeted

1024
00:51:53,360 --> 00:51:56,640
Speaker 5: one of the most prominent journalists in Gaza. His name

1025
00:51:56,719 --> 00:51:59,839
Speaker 5: was Hasseneslayech. They bombed him in a very similar way

1026
00:51:59,880 --> 00:52:01,799
Speaker 5: to the bombing they did yesterday. The bombed the media

1027
00:52:01,960 --> 00:52:04,839
Speaker 5: tempt but this one outside of Nassert Hospital and Hawness.

1028
00:52:05,520 --> 00:52:08,160
Speaker 5: They killed two journalists. One was burned alive and the

1029
00:52:08,200 --> 00:52:10,319
Speaker 5: other died. But the journalists they were trying to kill

1030
00:52:10,360 --> 00:52:13,880
Speaker 5: Hassan he was wounded very badly. He was burned, he

1031
00:52:13,960 --> 00:52:17,600
Speaker 5: lost two of his fingers. He was recovering inside the hospital.

1032
00:52:18,120 --> 00:52:20,880
Speaker 5: They bombed the hospital and killed him. They bombed an

1033
00:52:20,920 --> 00:52:23,840
Speaker 5: injured journalist a month later, barely a month later, and

1034
00:52:23,920 --> 00:52:27,919
Speaker 5: killed him and then openly admitted to it. So they're

1035
00:52:27,960 --> 00:52:30,400
Speaker 5: becoming more brazen about it, openly admitted to it because

1036
00:52:30,440 --> 00:52:33,720
Speaker 5: they know there will be zero consequences.

1037
00:52:33,880 --> 00:52:34,719
Speaker 4: No, that's what they did.

1038
00:52:35,160 --> 00:52:38,680
Speaker 5: They pushed some words of condemnation, but the money, the weapons,

1039
00:52:38,680 --> 00:52:42,800
Speaker 5: the support and the coverage by most Western media outlets

1040
00:52:43,200 --> 00:52:44,760
Speaker 5: will allow this to happen.

1041
00:52:44,840 --> 00:52:46,319
Speaker 4: Right, that's right now, that's what they do.

1042
00:52:46,719 --> 00:52:49,919
Speaker 2: They test the limits and every time what they found

1043
00:52:50,080 --> 00:52:53,799
Speaker 2: is they can get away with literally anything. Sure if

1044
00:52:53,840 --> 00:52:56,080
Speaker 2: thank you so much, Sure for joining us today, We

1045
00:52:56,080 --> 00:52:56,880
Speaker 2: really appreciate it.

1046
00:52:57,000 --> 00:53:02,000
Speaker 1: Sure to thank you for having me. So.

1047
00:53:02,200 --> 00:53:04,520
Speaker 2: The head of the ADL, Jonathan Green Black, gave a

1048
00:53:04,560 --> 00:53:07,080
Speaker 2: couple of interviews, a long one with the New York

1049
00:53:07,120 --> 00:53:09,799
Speaker 2: Times but which caught a lot of attention. But the

1050
00:53:09,800 --> 00:53:11,600
Speaker 2: first coupe we want to start with was actually from

1051
00:53:11,640 --> 00:53:15,879
Speaker 2: a different interview where he expresses concern over intermarriage.

1052
00:53:15,960 --> 00:53:16,840
Speaker 4: Let's take a listen to that.

1053
00:53:17,160 --> 00:53:19,200
Speaker 8: But like, this is why we need a revolution in

1054
00:53:19,200 --> 00:53:23,040
Speaker 8: our community on so many levels. So look, the reality

1055
00:53:23,160 --> 00:53:27,640
Speaker 8: is is that intermarriage rates continue to go up, assimilation

1056
00:53:27,800 --> 00:53:31,359
Speaker 8: continues a pace, and look, I find anti symptism, that

1057
00:53:31,520 --> 00:53:34,200
Speaker 8: is my job, but I worry a great deal about

1058
00:53:34,480 --> 00:53:37,360
Speaker 8: broader questions of Jewish identity. I think we talked about over.

1059
00:53:37,239 --> 00:53:42,080
Speaker 2: Lunch concerned about intermarriage, which is interesting because if we

1060
00:53:42,080 --> 00:53:44,080
Speaker 2: put this next piece up on the screen, Remember ADL

1061
00:53:44,160 --> 00:53:46,960
Speaker 2: is supposed to be a civil rights organization. This is

1062
00:53:46,960 --> 00:53:51,880
Speaker 2: from their website concerning over white supremacists who fear and

1063
00:53:51,880 --> 00:53:55,000
Speaker 2: hate the concept of multiracial couples, relationships, or families, believe

1064
00:53:55,000 --> 00:53:58,040
Speaker 2: that such relationships pollute the pure white race as a

1065
00:53:58,080 --> 00:54:00,680
Speaker 2: result of fairly common white supremacist and bill depicts a

1066
00:54:00,719 --> 00:54:03,600
Speaker 2: multiracial couple or family with a red circle or bar

1067
00:54:03,719 --> 00:54:07,520
Speaker 2: superimposed over the depiction, indicating that such relationships ought to

1068
00:54:07,560 --> 00:54:12,799
Speaker 2: be prohibited. So, yeah, I don't know what to tell you.

1069
00:54:13,920 --> 00:54:17,160
Speaker 2: My commentary on this was I think it just should

1070
00:54:17,160 --> 00:54:19,279
Speaker 2: be abundantly clear at this point that if you are

1071
00:54:19,280 --> 00:54:24,040
Speaker 2: committed to sort of like basic liberal classical liberal, classical

1072
00:54:24,080 --> 00:54:29,000
Speaker 2: liberal values, Zionism and classical liberal values cannot coexist, and

1073
00:54:29,040 --> 00:54:32,799
Speaker 2: that relationship has become increasingly untenable. And when you see

1074
00:54:32,800 --> 00:54:35,160
Speaker 2: comments like this, I think it underscores that fact.

1075
00:54:35,320 --> 00:54:37,400
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, there's so much to say about it,

1076
00:54:37,440 --> 00:54:40,000
Speaker 1: which is fascinating. So first of all, is it okay

1077
00:54:40,160 --> 00:54:42,600
Speaker 1: to say? That's actually a very interesting debate. And so

1078
00:54:42,680 --> 00:54:44,360
Speaker 1: I was talking about it with some Jewish friends and

1079
00:54:44,360 --> 00:54:47,000
Speaker 1: they're like, listen, even though it's green black, this is

1080
00:54:47,040 --> 00:54:49,839
Speaker 1: a very common sentiment in the Jewish community. I was like, okay,

1081
00:54:49,880 --> 00:54:51,719
Speaker 1: so let's talk about that. Why And it's like, well,

1082
00:54:51,760 --> 00:54:54,719
Speaker 1: we're concerned about Jewish identity and we'd want to make

1083
00:54:54,760 --> 00:54:57,680
Speaker 1: sure that the Jewish story of the last six thousand

1084
00:54:57,760 --> 00:55:00,600
Speaker 1: years gets carried on. I said, Okay, I think that's

1085
00:55:00,719 --> 00:55:04,800
Speaker 1: entirely reasonable for let's say a Jewish rabbi or others

1086
00:55:04,920 --> 00:55:07,840
Speaker 1: to talk about now, even in terms of actualizing it

1087
00:55:07,920 --> 00:55:09,719
Speaker 1: in America, I think it's a big problem. But I'll

1088
00:55:09,719 --> 00:55:13,319
Speaker 1: return to that. But John Greenblatt is talking about this

1089
00:55:13,400 --> 00:55:16,560
Speaker 1: in the context of support for Israel, and actually, really

1090
00:55:16,600 --> 00:55:19,160
Speaker 1: what he's saying is that people who are half Jews

1091
00:55:19,200 --> 00:55:21,960
Speaker 1: or people who marry outside of their religion are not

1092
00:55:22,120 --> 00:55:26,880
Speaker 1: real Jews, and thus they are polluting support for Israel

1093
00:55:27,000 --> 00:55:30,200
Speaker 1: right America. And that's what I find actually deeply distasteful

1094
00:55:30,440 --> 00:55:33,200
Speaker 1: and really gross. This is, let's all be honest. This

1095
00:55:33,239 --> 00:55:37,520
Speaker 1: is a common sentiment amongst recent immigrant arrival communities in

1096
00:55:37,560 --> 00:55:40,440
Speaker 1: the United States. It was common amongst the Irish. Back

1097
00:55:40,440 --> 00:55:43,680
Speaker 1: in the nineteen hundreds, common amongst the Italians. Intermarriage between

1098
00:55:43,680 --> 00:55:47,440
Speaker 1: the two was seen as sacrilegious, especially with the Protestants, Lithuanian, Slovenians,

1099
00:55:47,480 --> 00:55:50,840
Speaker 1: Eastern Europeans, etc. Obviously, it took a while and everybody

1100
00:55:50,840 --> 00:55:53,200
Speaker 1: pretty much got over it. It's common today amongst the

1101
00:55:53,239 --> 00:55:57,320
Speaker 1: Indian community, It's common amongst the Muslim community. It's common

1102
00:55:57,560 --> 00:56:01,960
Speaker 1: any ethnic subgroup, especially one which is like tightly controlled value.

1103
00:56:02,040 --> 00:56:04,920
Speaker 1: Chinese Americans, I'm sure, Japanese Americans, I'm sure have the

1104
00:56:04,960 --> 00:56:07,279
Speaker 1: same story, and then, of course, over five six generations,

1105
00:56:07,400 --> 00:56:10,520
Speaker 1: things kind of peter out. The problem that I find

1106
00:56:10,640 --> 00:56:13,200
Speaker 1: in it, and this is returning to your liberal story,

1107
00:56:13,360 --> 00:56:16,960
Speaker 1: is that it is one fundamentally which is talking about

1108
00:56:17,000 --> 00:56:21,400
Speaker 1: the preservation of Jewish identity in his particular case, Zionism

1109
00:56:21,440 --> 00:56:24,719
Speaker 1: and support for Israel in the United States, and not

1110
00:56:25,040 --> 00:56:28,040
Speaker 1: wanting to basically quote assimilate, which he says is a

1111
00:56:28,080 --> 00:56:31,359
Speaker 1: bad thing into the broader American project and story. I

1112
00:56:31,400 --> 00:56:33,839
Speaker 1: think that's really bad. People have the right to do

1113
00:56:34,040 --> 00:56:36,040
Speaker 1: what they want, but in terms of what we should

1114
00:56:36,200 --> 00:56:39,279
Speaker 1: say is part of the so called melting pot, etc.

1115
00:56:39,920 --> 00:56:42,600
Speaker 1: Is not one which actively goes out of its way

1116
00:56:42,600 --> 00:56:45,560
Speaker 1: to say that ethnic subgroups, and in this particular one

1117
00:56:45,680 --> 00:56:48,560
Speaker 1: one which he wants to preserve for loyalty and support

1118
00:56:48,600 --> 00:56:52,040
Speaker 1: for a foreign state is quite literally the subversion that

1119
00:56:52,280 --> 00:56:55,759
Speaker 1: Theodore Roosevelt talked about hyphenated American in his speech on

1120
00:56:55,840 --> 00:56:59,200
Speaker 1: Hyphenated Americanism back in the early nineteen hundreds. And that's

1121
00:56:59,239 --> 00:57:01,560
Speaker 1: the big problem that I have broadly with what he's saying,

1122
00:57:01,560 --> 00:57:05,000
Speaker 1: because he is talking about it in the context of

1123
00:57:05,080 --> 00:57:07,879
Speaker 1: support for Israel, and that is one where by the way,

1124
00:57:07,880 --> 00:57:09,880
Speaker 1: if you're Jewish, you should be so insulted by this

1125
00:57:09,880 --> 00:57:12,600
Speaker 1: because you're basically saying, hey, don't go and marry some

1126
00:57:13,000 --> 00:57:16,439
Speaker 1: filthy goy, you know, and to make sure that your

1127
00:57:16,520 --> 00:57:19,360
Speaker 1: kids are going to grow up to be pro hamas

1128
00:57:19,640 --> 00:57:21,600
Speaker 1: you know. It's like, well, you know, last I checked,

1129
00:57:21,720 --> 00:57:25,160
Speaker 1: the passport, says American. That's the only thing that's supposed

1130
00:57:25,200 --> 00:57:27,400
Speaker 1: to matter. But of course that's not what they think.

1131
00:57:27,480 --> 00:57:29,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I don't know if this is controversial

1132
00:57:29,600 --> 00:57:31,400
Speaker 2: at this point, but I am a big believer in

1133
00:57:31,440 --> 00:57:34,280
Speaker 2: the melting pot, and I think like intermarriage is actually

1134
00:57:34,400 --> 00:57:37,160
Speaker 2: a big part of that. Now, like everybody can have

1135
00:57:37,200 --> 00:57:40,280
Speaker 2: their own individual preferences and desires and for their own

1136
00:57:40,320 --> 00:57:42,480
Speaker 2: family and what they want to do in their own lives.

1137
00:57:42,760 --> 00:57:46,240
Speaker 4: But again, what makes it a big issue is when

1138
00:57:46,280 --> 00:57:46,680
Speaker 4: this is.

1139
00:57:46,960 --> 00:57:52,320
Speaker 2: The head of a civil rights organization, an American civil

1140
00:57:52,440 --> 00:57:58,880
Speaker 2: rights organization, decrying intermarriage. That to me is problem and

1141
00:57:58,920 --> 00:58:04,760
Speaker 2: again expos it is the tension between Zionist values and

1142
00:58:05,120 --> 00:58:09,720
Speaker 2: liberal values of equality. Let's go ahead to the next one.

1143
00:58:09,800 --> 00:58:12,840
Speaker 2: So this was as part of an interview with Lulu.

1144
00:58:12,880 --> 00:58:14,520
Speaker 2: I always forget her last name, but over at the

1145
00:58:14,560 --> 00:58:16,720
Speaker 2: New York Times, they did a lengthy interview. I actually

1146
00:58:16,760 --> 00:58:19,000
Speaker 2: would encourage you to go and listen to it because

1147
00:58:19,040 --> 00:58:22,840
Speaker 2: it is very interesting. In any case, she presses him

1148
00:58:22,880 --> 00:58:25,439
Speaker 2: a bit on Okay, what do you say to people

1149
00:58:25,440 --> 00:58:27,920
Speaker 2: who say that what Israel's doing is a genocide?

1150
00:58:27,920 --> 00:58:29,240
Speaker 4: What do you think about that?

1151
00:58:29,400 --> 00:58:31,920
Speaker 2: And he claims he doesn't really know about it, he

1152
00:58:31,960 --> 00:58:35,760
Speaker 2: doesn't really know the definition. Shortly after talking about how

1153
00:58:35,800 --> 00:58:38,440
Speaker 2: clarity of words is so important as the head of

1154
00:58:38,440 --> 00:58:40,400
Speaker 2: the ADL, let's go ahead and take a listen to that.

1155
00:58:40,880 --> 00:58:43,480
Speaker 8: I do feel that my job requires me to have

1156
00:58:43,520 --> 00:58:44,680
Speaker 8: a kind of moral.

1157
00:58:44,440 --> 00:58:47,240
Speaker 1: Clarity and on the use of words. On the use of.

1158
00:58:47,240 --> 00:58:50,480
Speaker 8: Words, I do think what's happening in Gaza is a terrible,

1159
00:58:51,160 --> 00:58:56,080
Speaker 8: catastrophic situation. I don't think it's a genocide because that's

1160
00:58:56,080 --> 00:59:00,160
Speaker 8: a legal definition, which means an intentional effort. And have

1161
00:59:00,200 --> 00:59:01,080
Speaker 8: the dictionary in.

1162
00:59:01,080 --> 00:59:01,520
Speaker 5: Front of it.

1163
00:59:01,600 --> 00:59:03,560
Speaker 8: Here's intentional. Okay, what is it?

1164
00:59:03,760 --> 00:59:04,920
Speaker 9: I mean, it's a un right.

1165
00:59:04,960 --> 00:59:05,400
Speaker 1: We should say.

1166
00:59:05,400 --> 00:59:07,920
Speaker 9: It's a legal definition, and it says any of the

1167
00:59:07,920 --> 00:59:10,800
Speaker 9: following acts committed with intent to destroy and hold in

1168
00:59:10,880 --> 00:59:14,000
Speaker 9: part and national, ethnical, racial, or religious groups such as

1169
00:59:14,080 --> 00:59:17,800
Speaker 9: killing members of the group, causing serious bodily or mental

1170
00:59:17,800 --> 00:59:20,560
Speaker 9: harm to members of the group, deliberately inflicting on the

1171
00:59:20,600 --> 00:59:24,120
Speaker 9: group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical

1172
00:59:24,120 --> 00:59:27,640
Speaker 9: destruction in whole or part, imposing measures intended to prevent

1173
00:59:27,680 --> 00:59:30,240
Speaker 9: births within the group, forcibly transferring children of the.

1174
00:59:30,160 --> 00:59:31,040
Speaker 5: Group to another group.

1175
00:59:31,560 --> 00:59:34,640
Speaker 8: In fairness, I don't have that definition in front of me, right,

1176
00:59:35,000 --> 00:59:37,360
Speaker 8: and I haven't read it like you have before this.

1177
00:59:38,200 --> 00:59:42,040
Speaker 8: But what I'll simply say is that I don't believe

1178
00:59:42,040 --> 00:59:44,000
Speaker 8: the Israeli government is committing genocide.

1179
00:59:45,720 --> 00:59:47,720
Speaker 2: I mean, it's just incredible. At first, he's like, well,

1180
00:59:47,720 --> 00:59:49,840
Speaker 2: I haven't looked at the definition. Okay, well here's the definition.

1181
00:59:50,320 --> 00:59:51,200
Speaker 4: Well, I don't have it in.

1182
00:59:51,160 --> 00:59:52,920
Speaker 2: Front of me, and I haven't really thought about it.

1183
00:59:52,920 --> 00:59:56,160
Speaker 2: It's like, yes, how would you have not thought about it?

1184
00:59:56,520 --> 00:59:58,720
Speaker 2: And then there's no, well, here's why I don't think

1185
00:59:58,760 --> 01:00:00,720
Speaker 2: they is really government. Here's what I don't here's what

1186
01:00:00,760 --> 01:00:02,960
Speaker 2: the definition is. Why don't think it fits. It's just

1187
01:00:03,400 --> 01:00:04,320
Speaker 2: now I don't believe that.

1188
01:00:04,600 --> 01:00:07,000
Speaker 1: Next question, Look, I mean again, you know it's one

1189
01:00:07,040 --> 01:00:09,360
Speaker 1: thing I think. You know I've argued here before about

1190
01:00:09,400 --> 01:00:11,800
Speaker 1: the legitimacy of the international law. I think it's fake,

1191
01:00:11,840 --> 01:00:12,960
Speaker 1: and that's part of the why I think a lot

1192
01:00:13,000 --> 01:00:17,040
Speaker 1: of these terms are just like not particularly useful. But Greenblatt,

1193
01:00:17,120 --> 01:00:22,520
Speaker 1: if your entire worldview is that the genocide, the holocaust

1194
01:00:22,840 --> 01:00:26,320
Speaker 1: of the Jewish people is the foundation for why you

1195
01:00:26,480 --> 01:00:29,440
Speaker 1: need the ADL in America and the existence of the

1196
01:00:29,440 --> 01:00:32,520
Speaker 1: State of Israel, then yeah, you probably should think quite

1197
01:00:32,560 --> 01:00:34,600
Speaker 1: a lot about the term in genocide and what is

1198
01:00:34,880 --> 01:00:36,880
Speaker 1: or is not a genocide. Actually should go and check

1199
01:00:37,160 --> 01:00:40,120
Speaker 1: their record on the quote Armenian genocide or any of

1200
01:00:40,160 --> 01:00:43,840
Speaker 1: these Rwandan genocide, right, I mean, if you go, for example,

1201
01:00:43,960 --> 01:00:47,280
Speaker 1: if you go to the Holocaust Museum here in Washington,

1202
01:00:47,400 --> 01:00:51,640
Speaker 1: d C. They literally sell like never again merch and

1203
01:00:51,800 --> 01:00:57,400
Speaker 1: they have stuff which highlights the Rwandan genocide, the Armenian genocide,

1204
01:00:57,440 --> 01:01:01,320
Speaker 1: like the mass murder of ethnic subgroups of people that's

1205
01:01:01,640 --> 01:01:05,080
Speaker 1: built into the Holocaust Museum here in Washington, d C.

1206
01:01:05,440 --> 01:01:08,400
Speaker 1: So it's a ridiculous thing to say that the ADL

1207
01:01:08,520 --> 01:01:10,800
Speaker 1: or any of these prominent Jewish organizations have not thought

1208
01:01:10,800 --> 01:01:13,760
Speaker 1: about the term when they're the ones who invented the term,

1209
01:01:14,560 --> 01:01:17,320
Speaker 1: you know, basically use the term as some sort of

1210
01:01:17,560 --> 01:01:21,520
Speaker 1: legal architecture from the UN Genocide Conventions in nineteen forty eight,

1211
01:01:21,800 --> 01:01:24,840
Speaker 1: inventing the never again in the R two P doctrine

1212
01:01:25,040 --> 01:01:28,560
Speaker 1: of the nineteen nineties, which was born of the Rwandan genocide.

1213
01:01:28,600 --> 01:01:30,800
Speaker 1: So my point is just like for him to just

1214
01:01:30,840 --> 01:01:33,200
Speaker 1: sit there now all of a sudden want to like

1215
01:01:33,360 --> 01:01:35,640
Speaker 1: parse every little word. It's like, dude, you just sound

1216
01:01:35,760 --> 01:01:38,440
Speaker 1: you sound just like the people. It's like the Turks

1217
01:01:38,440 --> 01:01:40,760
Speaker 1: today who are arguing whether the Armenian genocide was a

1218
01:01:40,760 --> 01:01:42,560
Speaker 1: genocide or not. I'm like, okay, that's part of the reason.

1219
01:01:42,600 --> 01:01:45,160
Speaker 1: By the way, I can find the term very tedious

1220
01:01:45,160 --> 01:01:47,440
Speaker 1: sometimes because it's like, Okay, did you murder hundreds of

1221
01:01:47,480 --> 01:01:49,160
Speaker 1: thousands of them or not? Like, what are we talking

1222
01:01:49,160 --> 01:01:51,440
Speaker 1: about here? You know, yes, the answer is yes, just

1223
01:01:51,480 --> 01:01:53,360
Speaker 1: to everybody is clear. I'm sure this will be clipp

1224
01:01:53,360 --> 01:01:54,160
Speaker 1: by the Armenians.

1225
01:01:54,960 --> 01:01:57,600
Speaker 2: We should, we should you guys can go when watch

1226
01:01:57,640 --> 01:02:00,840
Speaker 2: Agranize disagreements about genocide and why. I think that term

1227
01:02:00,920 --> 01:02:04,320
Speaker 2: is actually really important, very consequential specifically in this context.

1228
01:02:04,720 --> 01:02:08,560
Speaker 2: But Greenblot's answer here really actually relates back.

1229
01:02:08,480 --> 01:02:10,120
Speaker 4: To his stance on intermarriage.

1230
01:02:10,560 --> 01:02:14,800
Speaker 2: Because Zionism is a is an ideology of Jewish supremacism.

1231
01:02:15,000 --> 01:02:15,680
Speaker 4: That's what it is.

1232
01:02:15,880 --> 01:02:19,120
Speaker 2: It says, it justifies the idea that Jewish people in

1233
01:02:19,240 --> 01:02:22,760
Speaker 2: Israel should have different rights, should have more rights, should

1234
01:02:22,760 --> 01:02:26,000
Speaker 2: be should reign supreme in that state, and they should

1235
01:02:26,000 --> 01:02:29,400
Speaker 2: be able to directly appriss Palestinanes both within the you know,

1236
01:02:29,440 --> 01:02:32,360
Speaker 2: original Israeli borders, and you know they have completely now

1237
01:02:32,360 --> 01:02:35,160
Speaker 2: subjugated people in both the West Bank and in Gaza.

1238
01:02:35,520 --> 01:02:37,840
Speaker 4: It is a Jewish supremacist ideology.

1239
01:02:38,200 --> 01:02:41,840
Speaker 2: So you know, the prohibition on race mixing makes very

1240
01:02:42,200 --> 01:02:45,160
Speaker 2: makes tons of sense in the context of a Jewish

1241
01:02:45,200 --> 01:02:49,640
Speaker 2: supremacist ideology. And it also is the truly, if he's

1242
01:02:49,680 --> 01:02:54,080
Speaker 2: speaking honestly, it is the real reason why he and

1243
01:02:54,280 --> 01:02:57,160
Speaker 2: others won't acknowledge that what Israel is doing is a

1244
01:02:57,240 --> 01:02:59,680
Speaker 2: genocide because they believe that.

1245
01:02:59,720 --> 01:03:02,720
Speaker 4: They, as you know, a Jewish supremacist.

1246
01:03:02,360 --> 01:03:04,680
Speaker 2: That they basically get a pass to do what they

1247
01:03:04,920 --> 01:03:08,200
Speaker 2: whatever they want to do, and that nothing that they

1248
01:03:08,240 --> 01:03:11,720
Speaker 2: could do could ever constitute a genocide.

1249
01:03:11,880 --> 01:03:12,800
Speaker 4: And you hear this.

1250
01:03:12,760 --> 01:03:16,600
Speaker 2: Even, you know, in a more i guess diplomatic or

1251
01:03:16,840 --> 01:03:20,200
Speaker 2: more sort of liberal coded answer from Jeremy benam Me

1252
01:03:20,320 --> 01:03:22,800
Speaker 2: when he was debating Mehdi Hassan about the use of

1253
01:03:22,800 --> 01:03:25,439
Speaker 2: the term genocide, and it's basically like, well, it makes

1254
01:03:25,440 --> 01:03:27,040
Speaker 2: me feel bad, so I don't want to use that

1255
01:03:27,120 --> 01:03:29,000
Speaker 2: term because I don't like the way it makes me

1256
01:03:29,080 --> 01:03:33,080
Speaker 2: think about like what Jewish Israelis are supporting and what this.

1257
01:03:33,040 --> 01:03:34,400
Speaker 4: Means for my whole ideology.

1258
01:03:34,440 --> 01:03:36,760
Speaker 2: And after the fact, apparently after reflection into his credit,

1259
01:03:36,880 --> 01:03:39,439
Speaker 2: he put on a substack basically saying like, you know what,

1260
01:03:39,880 --> 01:03:41,600
Speaker 2: I'm no longer going to object to the term. I'm

1261
01:03:41,600 --> 01:03:43,320
Speaker 2: not going to use the term because it still makes

1262
01:03:43,320 --> 01:03:45,120
Speaker 2: me feel bad. But I don't object to the term

1263
01:03:45,120 --> 01:03:48,360
Speaker 2: because I see that this is what is actually happening here.

1264
01:03:48,400 --> 01:03:52,000
Speaker 2: But I think that's truly where the denial comes from.

1265
01:03:52,240 --> 01:03:56,200
Speaker 2: It's because it couldn't be us, because he's so steeped

1266
01:03:56,240 --> 01:04:00,360
Speaker 2: in this Jewish supremacist ideology of Zionism that he thinks

1267
01:04:00,360 --> 01:04:05,560
Speaker 2: that it could never be that Israel is committing genocide.

1268
01:04:05,680 --> 01:04:09,040
Speaker 2: No matter even if they nuked Gaza, he would still

1269
01:04:09,360 --> 01:04:13,080
Speaker 2: he would still insist, No, I just don't believe that

1270
01:04:13,200 --> 01:04:15,480
Speaker 2: Israel is committing genocide in this world.

1271
01:04:15,440 --> 01:04:17,439
Speaker 1: Well, let's talk about the intermarriage thing too, So, yeah,

1272
01:04:17,480 --> 01:04:22,640
Speaker 1: in Israel, you cannot have interfaith marriage. It's not legal, Like,

1273
01:04:22,680 --> 01:04:24,920
Speaker 1: does anybody know that for everybody, all for all of

1274
01:04:24,960 --> 01:04:26,640
Speaker 1: the Oh it's an equal.

1275
01:04:26,440 --> 01:04:28,560
Speaker 4: Christry, liberal democracy, and you.

1276
01:04:28,600 --> 01:04:31,120
Speaker 1: Literally cannot have an interfaith marriage in the State of

1277
01:04:31,160 --> 01:04:35,160
Speaker 1: Israel unless both people convert to the same religion. I'm

1278
01:04:35,200 --> 01:04:38,800
Speaker 1: just telling you the facts. The compromise is they will

1279
01:04:38,880 --> 01:04:42,400
Speaker 1: recognize legal marriage from outside of the country, but they

1280
01:04:42,440 --> 01:04:45,560
Speaker 1: will not perform them inside of the country. Okay, I

1281
01:04:45,600 --> 01:04:48,600
Speaker 1: mean that's pretty crazy, don't we all think. And I'm

1282
01:04:48,600 --> 01:04:50,520
Speaker 1: not even talking about in the West Bank, where like

1283
01:04:50,560 --> 01:04:53,439
Speaker 1: you just talked about, where we see this in action,

1284
01:04:53,600 --> 01:04:56,400
Speaker 1: where if you murders somebody and your Israeli or you're

1285
01:04:56,400 --> 01:04:59,800
Speaker 1: a settler, then you basically have two tier systems of justice.

1286
01:05:00,040 --> 01:05:02,280
Speaker 1: And if you if you murder someone in your Palestinian,

1287
01:05:02,400 --> 01:05:03,760
Speaker 1: a soldiers is going to shoot in the face and

1288
01:05:03,760 --> 01:05:05,800
Speaker 1: there's no such thing as do process. And it's basically

1289
01:05:05,880 --> 01:05:08,360
Speaker 1: the opposite where if you do murder a Palestinian you're

1290
01:05:08,440 --> 01:05:10,400
Speaker 1: Israeli settler, not only do you get set free, you're

1291
01:05:10,400 --> 01:05:12,560
Speaker 1: basically a hero in the entire country and you get

1292
01:05:12,560 --> 01:05:14,919
Speaker 1: free guns, you know, from the government. I'm just telling

1293
01:05:14,920 --> 01:05:17,080
Speaker 1: who reality is. And so if you look at this,

1294
01:05:17,200 --> 01:05:20,160
Speaker 1: I mean the fact that interfaith marriage is actually banned

1295
01:05:20,200 --> 01:05:24,160
Speaker 1: inside of the country. Basically, you know, emphasizes a lot

1296
01:05:24,200 --> 01:05:26,439
Speaker 1: of the core points that he is talking about, and

1297
01:05:26,560 --> 01:05:29,760
Speaker 1: a lot of this like liberal democracy stuff which they

1298
01:05:29,800 --> 01:05:32,320
Speaker 1: love to trot out. It's a Jewish ethno state. And

1299
01:05:32,360 --> 01:05:35,640
Speaker 1: by the way, I think ethno states, you know, broadly,

1300
01:05:36,080 --> 01:05:38,200
Speaker 1: I would look at it as more value neutral in

1301
01:05:38,320 --> 01:05:40,440
Speaker 1: terms of whether it's quote good or not, and more

1302
01:05:40,480 --> 01:05:43,040
Speaker 1: in terms of should America tolerate ethno states? Likely we

1303
01:05:43,080 --> 01:05:45,160
Speaker 1: have ethno states all over the world. Okay, so be

1304
01:05:45,240 --> 01:05:48,240
Speaker 1: it all right, it's reality. But my point just about

1305
01:05:48,240 --> 01:05:51,160
Speaker 1: it is, don't sit here in gaslight me about how

1306
01:05:51,280 --> 01:05:53,320
Speaker 1: you're just like us, because you're actually not. You know,

1307
01:05:53,520 --> 01:05:55,760
Speaker 1: so in their country, I could not have I could

1308
01:05:55,760 --> 01:05:58,520
Speaker 1: not marry my wife. That's fucking crazy. Don't tell me

1309
01:05:58,560 --> 01:05:59,640
Speaker 1: you live in a Western country.

1310
01:05:59,680 --> 01:06:00,000
Speaker 6: You don't.

1311
01:06:00,160 --> 01:06:01,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, right, And I could do that in probably I

1312
01:06:01,680 --> 01:06:04,280
Speaker 1: think every European democracy, and I have a lot of

1313
01:06:04,280 --> 01:06:06,520
Speaker 1: problems with them. But don't put yourself on the same

1314
01:06:06,800 --> 01:06:08,360
Speaker 1: on the same tier as the rest of us.

1315
01:06:08,440 --> 01:06:11,160
Speaker 4: Yeah no, my kid's dad is Jewish.

1316
01:06:11,200 --> 01:06:11,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, there you go.

1317
01:06:11,920 --> 01:06:13,800
Speaker 4: And I was thinking about this, I was like.

1318
01:06:13,960 --> 01:06:18,120
Speaker 2: Shit, my typically, you know, the Jewish heritage comes from

1319
01:06:18,360 --> 01:06:22,280
Speaker 2: the mother in terms of most you know, sex of Judaism,

1320
01:06:22,320 --> 01:06:23,880
Speaker 2: although reform is different.

1321
01:06:24,200 --> 01:06:24,840
Speaker 4: And so I was looking.

1322
01:06:24,880 --> 01:06:26,280
Speaker 2: I was like, do my kids have some kind of

1323
01:06:26,320 --> 01:06:28,280
Speaker 2: like a right to be able to like rite to

1324
01:06:28,320 --> 01:06:29,600
Speaker 2: return and they, sure.

1325
01:06:29,520 --> 01:06:29,960
Speaker 1: Enough they do.

1326
01:06:31,040 --> 01:06:31,800
Speaker 4: They have no connect.

1327
01:06:31,840 --> 01:06:34,440
Speaker 2: That's insane that they have more right to live there

1328
01:06:34,440 --> 01:06:36,760
Speaker 2: than the Paleston means who've been like that just shows

1329
01:06:36,800 --> 01:06:41,600
Speaker 2: you how absolutely insane this state actually is and what

1330
01:06:41,640 --> 01:06:45,840
Speaker 2: we're what our tax dollars are bolstering and supporting here,

1331
01:06:46,160 --> 01:06:49,240
Speaker 2: and it's been layered over with this idea that this

1332
01:06:49,360 --> 01:06:52,400
Speaker 2: is some liberal democracy, which is total and complete bullshit. Okay,

1333
01:06:52,480 --> 01:06:55,400
Speaker 2: speaking of total and complete bullshit. He also got pressed

1334
01:06:55,520 --> 01:07:01,560
Speaker 2: by Lulu about his equation of anti Zionism with anti Semitism.

1335
01:07:01,720 --> 01:07:03,800
Speaker 2: Doesn't have a lot of great responses here either. Let's

1336
01:07:03,800 --> 01:07:04,320
Speaker 2: take aalism.

1337
01:07:04,600 --> 01:07:08,720
Speaker 9: You have equated anti Zionism with anti Semitism. It is

1338
01:07:09,000 --> 01:07:12,160
Speaker 9: and I will say that in preparation for this conversation,

1339
01:07:12,280 --> 01:07:15,840
Speaker 9: I talked to a lot of different people, and one

1340
01:07:15,880 --> 01:07:22,240
Speaker 9: of the things I heard is that anti Zionism for

1341
01:07:22,280 --> 01:07:25,440
Speaker 9: them is a desire to have the rights of Palestinians

1342
01:07:25,440 --> 01:07:28,200
Speaker 9: be equal to the rights of Jews in Israel. And

1343
01:07:28,240 --> 01:07:31,800
Speaker 9: the Palestinian territories, the idea of sort of, I guess

1344
01:07:31,840 --> 01:07:36,320
Speaker 9: the one state solution, if you will, is that definition

1345
01:07:36,560 --> 01:07:38,680
Speaker 9: of anti Zionism to you anti semitic?

1346
01:07:39,800 --> 01:07:44,920
Speaker 8: Well, look, if you believe that only Jewish people don't

1347
01:07:44,920 --> 01:07:49,520
Speaker 8: have the right to self determination, that's anti Semitic because

1348
01:07:49,560 --> 01:07:52,000
Speaker 8: it's holding out Jews to a double standard you don't

1349
01:07:52,000 --> 01:07:57,520
Speaker 8: accord to other people. So if you believe my definition

1350
01:07:57,560 --> 01:08:01,320
Speaker 8: of Zionism, which is really not my definition widely accepted,

1351
01:08:02,280 --> 01:08:06,200
Speaker 8: it's peculiar to me how anti Zionism isn't the opposite

1352
01:08:06,240 --> 01:08:10,120
Speaker 8: of that, How people choose to interpret it, to embellish it,

1353
01:08:10,560 --> 01:08:12,640
Speaker 8: to sort of dress it up as something other than

1354
01:08:12,760 --> 01:08:16,679
Speaker 8: what it is. But the reality is, if you believe,

1355
01:08:16,800 --> 01:08:20,400
Speaker 8: you believe how I laid out Zionism, then anti Zionism

1356
01:08:20,560 --> 01:08:21,880
Speaker 8: is pretty simple.

1357
01:08:22,320 --> 01:08:26,920
Speaker 9: I think the challenge is if someone defines their view

1358
01:08:27,720 --> 01:08:31,040
Speaker 9: of anti Zionism in a way that allows for Jews

1359
01:08:31,040 --> 01:08:35,960
Speaker 9: to exist in a state of Israel, but that grants Palestinians' rights,

1360
01:08:37,000 --> 01:08:39,080
Speaker 9: but you're seeing that as anti Semitic.

1361
01:08:39,840 --> 01:08:42,400
Speaker 2: And she brings up in this exchange, which is longer,

1362
01:08:42,400 --> 01:08:44,200
Speaker 2: and I encourage you to read it, she actually brings

1363
01:08:44,280 --> 01:08:46,839
Speaker 2: up Azra Client's piece, which I think was an intelligent

1364
01:08:46,880 --> 01:08:49,160
Speaker 2: way to go about it, just as it's very first

1365
01:08:49,160 --> 01:08:49,880
Speaker 2: of all, he's Jewish.

1366
01:08:50,439 --> 01:08:52,600
Speaker 4: He wrote this piece about the divide.

1367
01:08:52,240 --> 01:08:55,880
Speaker 2: In the Jewish community in the way that Israel's genocide is,

1368
01:08:56,080 --> 01:08:59,439
Speaker 2: you know, sort of exercising Israel from being a really

1369
01:08:59,479 --> 01:09:03,400
Speaker 2: central focus of Jewish life in America. And he says,

1370
01:09:03,640 --> 01:09:05,800
Speaker 2: I hope I'm not butchering this quote. Basically like the

1371
01:09:05,880 --> 01:09:08,559
Speaker 2: question isn't does Israel have a right to exist? Israel

1372
01:09:08,640 --> 01:09:11,080
Speaker 2: does exist. The question is does Israel have a right

1373
01:09:11,120 --> 01:09:13,639
Speaker 2: to dominate? And she puts that to him, and again

1374
01:09:13,680 --> 01:09:15,479
Speaker 2: he's just sort of like, well, you know, I think

1375
01:09:15,520 --> 01:09:19,400
Speaker 2: they're denying Jewish ability of self determination, and so my

1376
01:09:19,520 --> 01:09:22,840
Speaker 2: definition is the one that counts. Therefore, that's how I'm

1377
01:09:22,880 --> 01:09:26,000
Speaker 2: defining it. Therefore, anyone who is anti Zionist is also

1378
01:09:26,120 --> 01:09:28,400
Speaker 2: anti Semitics. She also prosses him at a certain point

1379
01:09:28,400 --> 01:09:32,320
Speaker 2: on like the statistics they compile of you know, oh,

1380
01:09:32,400 --> 01:09:35,599
Speaker 2: anti Semitic incidents are up a million percent year over

1381
01:09:35,600 --> 01:09:38,160
Speaker 2: a year, and there is It is sort of revealing

1382
01:09:38,240 --> 01:09:41,080
Speaker 2: because he makes this comment. He says, in the ten

1383
01:09:41,160 --> 01:09:43,679
Speaker 2: years that I've been head of the adl anti Semitic

1384
01:09:43,720 --> 01:09:47,160
Speaker 2: incidents are up some thousand percent or whatever it is.

1385
01:09:47,439 --> 01:09:49,120
Speaker 4: It's like, well, then, aren't you kind of failing at

1386
01:09:49,160 --> 01:09:49,519
Speaker 4: your job?

1387
01:09:49,560 --> 01:09:51,800
Speaker 2: I think is that your whole job is to bring

1388
01:09:51,840 --> 01:09:56,080
Speaker 2: down anti Semitism, So you know, maybe your approach is

1389
01:09:56,120 --> 01:09:57,639
Speaker 2: not really particularly working here.

1390
01:09:57,680 --> 01:09:58,479
Speaker 4: Have you thought about that?

1391
01:09:58,800 --> 01:10:01,080
Speaker 1: Well, it turns out that screaming antisemid all the time

1392
01:10:01,120 --> 01:10:04,120
Speaker 1: doesn't particularly do anything about anti Semitism. It turns out

1393
01:10:04,120 --> 01:10:07,519
Speaker 1: also that really is about concrete policy action. Most of

1394
01:10:07,520 --> 01:10:10,280
Speaker 1: the things that brand is antisemitic or not anti Semitic whatsoever,

1395
01:10:10,320 --> 01:10:12,640
Speaker 1: and would be laughed at ridiculously, you know, in the

1396
01:10:12,680 --> 01:10:16,640
Speaker 1: context of any other country. But yeah, in particular his

1397
01:10:17,200 --> 01:10:19,920
Speaker 1: thing about that, I see. I love that point about

1398
01:10:20,000 --> 01:10:22,760
Speaker 1: it exists. And this again, I know people don't like this,

1399
01:10:22,840 --> 01:10:25,200
Speaker 1: but this is my assault on the liberal democratic framework.

1400
01:10:25,560 --> 01:10:27,519
Speaker 1: Is there's no such thing as right to exist. There

1401
01:10:27,560 --> 01:10:29,800
Speaker 1: is just existence. There's no such thing as, you know,

1402
01:10:30,160 --> 01:10:33,240
Speaker 1: a right to It's like, we live in reality. Israel

1403
01:10:33,360 --> 01:10:36,280
Speaker 1: is a nation recognized by X number of states. Does

1404
01:10:36,439 --> 01:10:38,439
Speaker 1: it exists? So now what do we do about it?

1405
01:10:38,479 --> 01:10:41,400
Speaker 1: The Palestine was a state that was supposed to be existed,

1406
01:10:41,439 --> 01:10:44,160
Speaker 1: and now quote doesn't exist. It's not about right to exist.

1407
01:10:44,240 --> 01:10:46,200
Speaker 1: It doesn't and we probably should do something about it.

1408
01:10:46,200 --> 01:10:48,679
Speaker 1: There's no right or not in order to restore peace,

1409
01:10:48,720 --> 01:10:51,400
Speaker 1: which I think is good. Right, that's all really the

1410
01:10:51,400 --> 01:10:53,280
Speaker 1: way that we should talk about these things. And they

1411
01:10:53,280 --> 01:10:56,479
Speaker 1: try to gaslight you into this right to exist questions

1412
01:10:56,560 --> 01:10:58,920
Speaker 1: like what do you bitching about? You want already not

1413
01:10:58,960 --> 01:11:00,640
Speaker 1: only do you have your own country, you have it

1414
01:11:00,680 --> 01:11:03,120
Speaker 1: beyond the borders of what you originally set out and

1415
01:11:03,200 --> 01:11:06,040
Speaker 1: actually now you've annexed all this territory and quote greater Israel.

1416
01:11:06,120 --> 01:11:09,840
Speaker 4: Yeah, yes, does Lebanon have a right to exit?

1417
01:11:09,840 --> 01:11:12,679
Speaker 1: I mean, by the way my point, and even those

1418
01:11:12,720 --> 01:11:15,320
Speaker 1: states are basically fake and drawn up on you know,

1419
01:11:15,400 --> 01:11:17,160
Speaker 1: by the bridge. We could go on forever, but yeah,

1420
01:11:17,240 --> 01:11:19,200
Speaker 1: this rabbit hole. So the point is it's like, no,

1421
01:11:19,320 --> 01:11:22,879
Speaker 1: Syria exists as a polity now, doesn't make sense? Probably

1422
01:11:22,880 --> 01:11:25,479
Speaker 1: not if you really look at it from the past.

1423
01:11:25,560 --> 01:11:28,040
Speaker 1: Should we do anything about it? Yeah, it's kind of

1424
01:11:28,040 --> 01:11:31,120
Speaker 1: more up to them. Should we let Israel dictate its

1425
01:11:31,120 --> 01:11:34,360
Speaker 1: neighbor's politics and cause problems for us? Let's again center

1426
01:11:34,439 --> 01:11:37,920
Speaker 1: ourselves in that equation. No, that's ridiculous, and it's the

1427
01:11:37,920 --> 01:11:41,080
Speaker 1: same for the entire region. That's the point. And actually

1428
01:11:41,160 --> 01:11:43,479
Speaker 1: it all comes back to the point around America and

1429
01:11:43,520 --> 01:11:45,559
Speaker 1: the way that we should think about this is it's

1430
01:11:45,600 --> 01:11:49,360
Speaker 1: not just the question about slaughtering of Palestinians and the

1431
01:11:49,400 --> 01:11:53,400
Speaker 1: strategic goal. It's about do we want to be wholly

1432
01:11:53,520 --> 01:11:57,320
Speaker 1: responsible for and alienate this entire region of which we

1433
01:11:57,360 --> 01:12:00,640
Speaker 1: are somewhat dependent on for oil and may so that

1434
01:12:00,680 --> 01:12:05,640
Speaker 1: they can militarily dominate and conquer vast swats around this

1435
01:12:06,000 --> 01:12:08,799
Speaker 1: At the same time, we're going around the world preaching

1436
01:12:08,880 --> 01:12:12,880
Speaker 1: about how all borders are sacrisanct after World War Two

1437
01:12:13,200 --> 01:12:17,439
Speaker 1: and we can allow any domination or violation of liberal norms.

1438
01:12:17,680 --> 01:12:20,120
Speaker 1: What ground do we have to stand on with the

1439
01:12:20,240 --> 01:12:23,000
Speaker 1: Ukraine Russia consult when Gaza is going on.

1440
01:12:23,400 --> 01:12:26,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's ridiculous, And there's that is so true. And

1441
01:12:26,320 --> 01:12:30,840
Speaker 2: there's another parallel with Russia Ukraine as well, which is

1442
01:12:31,400 --> 01:12:35,400
Speaker 2: both our undying commitment to Israel no matter what, which

1443
01:12:35,760 --> 01:12:38,439
Speaker 2: we'll talk more about in the next segment, the Israel

1444
01:12:38,479 --> 01:12:42,320
Speaker 2: first segment, and our commitment to making Russia always and

1445
01:12:42,360 --> 01:12:45,880
Speaker 2: forever an enemy state. Both of these are like obsessive

1446
01:12:45,960 --> 01:12:49,920
Speaker 2: Cold War ideology. The reason we were so into Israel

1447
01:12:50,120 --> 01:12:53,280
Speaker 2: is because we saw them as an ally against Russia

1448
01:12:53,400 --> 01:12:56,000
Speaker 2: in the Cold War in an area where you know,

1449
01:12:56,160 --> 01:13:00,559
Speaker 2: Russian communists, like left wing ideology was a sendate.

1450
01:13:00,840 --> 01:13:03,120
Speaker 4: So that's why we were in love with Israel.

1451
01:13:03,240 --> 01:13:05,439
Speaker 2: The Cold War is over, at least that Cold War

1452
01:13:05,640 --> 01:13:08,360
Speaker 2: is over, and yet we still are hanging on to this.

1453
01:13:08,560 --> 01:13:10,360
Speaker 2: And so you know, when you ask Alyssa's luck and

1454
01:13:10,439 --> 01:13:12,680
Speaker 2: like why are they an ally, It's like, well, they

1455
01:13:12,760 --> 01:13:15,240
Speaker 2: just are. And it doesn't matter what you say serve

1456
01:13:15,479 --> 01:13:17,960
Speaker 2: or how much trouble it causes us, or how much

1457
01:13:17,960 --> 01:13:20,439
Speaker 2: it costs us, or how much it embroils this region.

1458
01:13:20,439 --> 01:13:23,000
Speaker 2: It's just they're an ally and that's it. And now

1459
01:13:23,040 --> 01:13:24,800
Speaker 2: I'm going to shut my brain off, and these ones

1460
01:13:24,840 --> 01:13:27,360
Speaker 2: are adversaries and that's it, and that can never change,

1461
01:13:27,400 --> 01:13:29,920
Speaker 2: or you know, is completely permanently immovable as well, Like

1462
01:13:29,960 --> 01:13:31,080
Speaker 2: who wants to view the right?

1463
01:13:31,360 --> 01:13:33,400
Speaker 1: I mean, people should really go back and read history.

1464
01:13:33,479 --> 01:13:35,800
Speaker 1: A major reason that the state of Israel was even

1465
01:13:35,880 --> 01:13:38,439
Speaker 1: recognized by Harry Truman is because at one point he

1466
01:13:38,479 --> 01:13:41,360
Speaker 1: had a business partner in his haberdashery who was Jewish,

1467
01:13:41,400 --> 01:13:45,200
Speaker 1: who connected him with his Zionists, with a Zionist preacher

1468
01:13:45,280 --> 01:13:47,599
Speaker 1: who allowed to get himself in the oval. I'm not joking.

1469
01:13:48,080 --> 01:13:51,320
Speaker 1: George Marshall, the architect of the Marshall Plan of the

1470
01:13:51,360 --> 01:13:54,240
Speaker 1: modern American Empire, literally told Truman that he would not

1471
01:13:54,360 --> 01:13:56,479
Speaker 1: vote for him in the upcoming election if he recognized

1472
01:13:56,520 --> 01:13:59,600
Speaker 1: Israel because he thought it was a terrible idea. General Eisenhower,

1473
01:13:59,680 --> 01:14:03,000
Speaker 1: the during the World War Two, Yeah, it was generalized

1474
01:14:03,040 --> 01:14:05,080
Speaker 1: now or the victor of World War Two in the

1475
01:14:05,120 --> 01:14:07,479
Speaker 1: nineteen fifties, during the Suez Crisis and all of that,

1476
01:14:07,760 --> 01:14:09,519
Speaker 1: was very willing to be like, who the fuck do

1477
01:14:09,560 --> 01:14:11,599
Speaker 1: you think you are going around here with the British

1478
01:14:11,640 --> 01:14:13,920
Speaker 1: and the French trying to, you know, basically have some

1479
01:14:13,960 --> 01:14:18,120
Speaker 1: conquest here in Egypt. That's not happening, like this modern cult.

1480
01:14:18,439 --> 01:14:20,760
Speaker 1: It did not exist back in the day, to the

1481
01:14:20,760 --> 01:14:24,559
Speaker 1: point where many, many of the architects of the American

1482
01:14:24,560 --> 01:14:27,000
Speaker 1: Empire thought that the recognition of the state of Israel

1483
01:14:27,200 --> 01:14:30,080
Speaker 1: was a disastrous idea that would be counter to American

1484
01:14:30,080 --> 01:14:32,120
Speaker 1: interests in the Middle East. You can read a book

1485
01:14:32,240 --> 01:14:34,639
Speaker 1: if you want to. It's all public record. Now. Of course,

1486
01:14:34,680 --> 01:14:36,599
Speaker 1: they don't want everybody to really know the truth. They

1487
01:14:36,600 --> 01:14:39,559
Speaker 1: think this special bond has existed since time. But I

1488
01:14:39,560 --> 01:14:43,920
Speaker 1: mean Yeah, if it weren't for Truman's Jewish haberdashery partner,

1489
01:14:44,120 --> 01:14:47,240
Speaker 1: we literally may not have the entire modern state, which

1490
01:14:47,320 --> 01:14:48,519
Speaker 1: I was joking, it's true.

1491
01:14:48,680 --> 01:14:52,240
Speaker 2: Well, and you know, it's one thing when Israel is

1492
01:14:52,280 --> 01:14:54,960
Speaker 2: screwing up our foreign policy. But I think part of

1493
01:14:55,000 --> 01:14:59,080
Speaker 2: why there has been such a revolt against Israel, you know,

1494
01:14:59,439 --> 01:15:02,559
Speaker 2: on the entire your democratic side and increasingly among young

1495
01:15:02,600 --> 01:15:06,360
Speaker 2: Republicans as well, is because of the way now Americans

1496
01:15:06,439 --> 01:15:10,200
Speaker 2: writes and what we're allowed to say are being directly

1497
01:15:10,280 --> 01:15:15,880
Speaker 2: curtailed and ADLs. Jonathan Greenblatt gets asked about the censorship

1498
01:15:16,280 --> 01:15:19,960
Speaker 2: that this government is engaging in to quash any sort

1499
01:15:20,040 --> 01:15:23,320
Speaker 2: of pro Palestine protests, you know, deporting anyone who wrote

1500
01:15:23,320 --> 01:15:26,000
Speaker 2: an op ed that they didn't approve of, etc. And

1501
01:15:26,280 --> 01:15:29,840
Speaker 2: he acknowledges that he works with the Biden administration on

1502
01:15:29,880 --> 01:15:33,040
Speaker 2: those efforts and works now with the Trump administration on

1503
01:15:33,080 --> 01:15:35,040
Speaker 2: those efforts as well. Let's take a listen to that.

1504
01:15:35,479 --> 01:15:38,400
Speaker 8: I have worked worked with the prior Education secretary, and

1505
01:15:38,479 --> 01:15:41,320
Speaker 8: I've worked with this Education Secretary, and I credit the

1506
01:15:41,320 --> 01:15:45,320
Speaker 8: Biden administration for their National Strategy to County Anti Semptism,

1507
01:15:45,400 --> 01:15:47,960
Speaker 8: a really important document no one had done with the

1508
01:15:47,960 --> 01:15:51,439
Speaker 8: Biden administration had done before in elevating anti Semitism to

1509
01:15:51,439 --> 01:15:55,320
Speaker 8: a federal priority and ADL and full disclosure worked with

1510
01:15:55,400 --> 01:15:57,479
Speaker 8: them on that, and they get a lot of credit

1511
01:15:57,479 --> 01:16:00,360
Speaker 8: for adopting the plan. And then I give credit to

1512
01:16:00,400 --> 01:16:04,160
Speaker 8: the Trump administration for actually implementing aspects of the plant

1513
01:16:04,200 --> 01:16:07,160
Speaker 8: and taking a strong view again in the face of real,

1514
01:16:07,680 --> 01:16:12,479
Speaker 8: not imagined, real acts of hate, real acts of discrimination. Again,

1515
01:16:12,680 --> 01:16:16,320
Speaker 8: we help to write the National Strategy to Counter Anti

1516
01:16:16,320 --> 01:16:20,439
Speaker 8: Semitism released by the Biden administration. We were deeply involved

1517
01:16:20,479 --> 01:16:20,760
Speaker 8: in that.

1518
01:16:21,479 --> 01:16:24,920
Speaker 2: So again, this head of a quote unquote civil rights

1519
01:16:25,040 --> 01:16:30,000
Speaker 2: organization wants to trample on your rights in service of

1520
01:16:30,080 --> 01:16:35,680
Speaker 2: his Israel first Jewish supremacist ideology and is working aggressively

1521
01:16:35,800 --> 01:16:39,679
Speaker 2: with whatever bipartisan you know, Democrat, Republican. Trump has certainly

1522
01:16:39,720 --> 01:16:44,639
Speaker 2: taken it beyond anyone's his wildest ambitions. He is happy

1523
01:16:44,680 --> 01:16:46,840
Speaker 2: to work with them in service of trying to crush

1524
01:16:47,120 --> 01:16:50,439
Speaker 2: your ability to speak out against your tax dollars going

1525
01:16:50,479 --> 01:16:51,320
Speaker 2: to fund genocide.

1526
01:16:51,479 --> 01:16:54,719
Speaker 1: Yep, it's totally crazy. But look, I mean, I think

1527
01:16:55,160 --> 01:16:57,920
Speaker 1: one good thing is that people are starting to see

1528
01:16:57,920 --> 01:17:00,640
Speaker 1: this organization for what it is. For years, it was

1529
01:17:00,680 --> 01:17:04,000
Speaker 1: a heroic organization amongst the left because it called out

1530
01:17:04,000 --> 01:17:07,000
Speaker 1: white supremacy. It just rings a little hollow when you're

1531
01:17:07,040 --> 01:17:09,800
Speaker 1: also talking about intermarriage for yourselves. So don't be telling

1532
01:17:09,920 --> 01:17:12,720
Speaker 1: us and warning with the boogeyman when the boogeyman may

1533
01:17:12,760 --> 01:17:14,599
Speaker 1: be amongst us the entire time.

1534
01:17:17,439 --> 01:17:20,200
Speaker 2: All right, let's go ahead and get to you know,

1535
01:17:20,240 --> 01:17:21,880
Speaker 2: like I said, dovetails well with what we were just

1536
01:17:21,920 --> 01:17:27,280
Speaker 2: talking about, the backlash to these Israel First policies and

1537
01:17:27,439 --> 01:17:31,439
Speaker 2: the continued pushing by politicians of you know, making sure

1538
01:17:31,439 --> 01:17:33,599
Speaker 2: that we prioritize Israel above all else.

1539
01:17:33,880 --> 01:17:34,680
Speaker 4: So let's start with this.

1540
01:17:34,720 --> 01:17:37,680
Speaker 2: There's a Wisconsin town hall or Republican representative by the

1541
01:17:37,760 --> 01:17:41,200
Speaker 2: name of Brian Steele who is just aggressively booed to

1542
01:17:41,240 --> 01:17:43,880
Speaker 2: the point and people are outraged over his support for

1543
01:17:44,040 --> 01:17:46,439
Speaker 2: the genocide in Gaza, to the point that he has

1544
01:17:46,479 --> 01:17:49,439
Speaker 2: to actually like leave the event, shut down the event

1545
01:17:49,479 --> 01:17:51,240
Speaker 2: and leave. Let's go ahead and take a listen to

1546
01:17:51,320 --> 01:17:51,960
Speaker 2: a little bit of that.

1547
01:17:52,360 --> 01:17:54,000
Speaker 5: People have a write a free speech.

1548
01:17:57,400 --> 01:17:59,800
Speaker 1: What do you have to say about dead prime?

1549
01:18:00,120 --> 01:18:02,960
Speaker 6: I had to say, it's not Oh.

1550
01:18:11,560 --> 01:18:16,800
Speaker 8: Do you hear? I want to have you addressed the

1551
01:18:16,880 --> 01:18:21,040
Speaker 8: question that was shouted about the starving children in Gaza.

1552
01:18:21,920 --> 01:18:25,800
Speaker 10: To me, the easy answer to address this crisis is

1553
01:18:25,800 --> 01:18:27,719
Speaker 10: for Hamasta surrender and release the hospital.

1554
01:18:28,280 --> 01:18:29,320
Speaker 8: That a war.

1555
01:18:34,880 --> 01:18:35,639
Speaker 5: In Israel.

1556
01:18:35,880 --> 01:18:40,840
Speaker 10: Israel was unfair, was unfairly unjustly attacked, their civilians were

1557
01:18:40,920 --> 01:18:43,280
Speaker 10: killed and kidnapped.

1558
01:18:44,160 --> 01:18:45,439
Speaker 5: By Hamas chats.

1559
01:18:48,840 --> 01:18:53,320
Speaker 1: Israel has a right to defend itself. It's jettasigh you

1560
01:18:53,439 --> 01:18:54,680
Speaker 1: believe in Shadda.

1561
01:18:54,439 --> 01:19:02,560
Speaker 5: Side is the thing we maybe we may just agreed this.

1562
01:19:02,720 --> 01:19:14,280
Speaker 5: That's fine. Thank you ladies and gentlemen for coming tonight.

1563
01:19:15,320 --> 01:19:17,320
Speaker 1: We're going to close it off here because there's no

1564
01:19:17,400 --> 01:19:18,480
Speaker 1: point in continuing.

1565
01:19:21,680 --> 01:19:23,920
Speaker 10: I appreciate everybody coming out tonight.

1566
01:19:23,720 --> 01:19:25,879
Speaker 5: Listening and everyone only agree.

1567
01:19:26,680 --> 01:19:27,519
Speaker 7: I know there's a lot of.

1568
01:19:29,560 --> 01:19:30,200
Speaker 1: You here.

1569
01:19:31,920 --> 01:19:36,280
Speaker 9: Well you look forward to say, everybody, you're not having

1570
01:19:36,240 --> 01:19:36,960
Speaker 9: absolute one of.

1571
01:19:36,960 --> 01:19:43,879
Speaker 1: The clods horrible.

1572
01:19:44,880 --> 01:19:46,040
Speaker 4: So there you go.

1573
01:19:46,720 --> 01:19:48,680
Speaker 2: And I hope Centator Slot can take a look at

1574
01:19:48,680 --> 01:19:50,719
Speaker 2: that footage because she seemed to believe that people only

1575
01:19:50,720 --> 01:19:53,200
Speaker 2: protested Democrats when it came to this issue, and I

1576
01:19:53,240 --> 01:19:55,360
Speaker 2: can tell you that's certainly not the case, is evidenced

1577
01:19:55,360 --> 01:19:57,559
Speaker 2: by this town hall. But you know, I hope all

1578
01:19:57,600 --> 01:19:59,599
Speaker 2: politicians are paying attention to this, not that I think

1579
01:19:59,600 --> 01:20:01,360
Speaker 2: they're going to like, you know, have a heart and

1580
01:20:01,439 --> 01:20:03,479
Speaker 2: have a soul and like decide suddenly that they're going

1581
01:20:03,560 --> 01:20:05,400
Speaker 2: to do what's right. But just in terms of a

1582
01:20:05,439 --> 01:20:09,720
Speaker 2: cynical political calculation, like this issue has become much more

1583
01:20:09,720 --> 01:20:12,479
Speaker 2: important than ever even I would have thought. And it's

1584
01:20:12,520 --> 01:20:16,519
Speaker 2: because if you are still in you know, August eleventh,

1585
01:20:16,600 --> 01:20:19,599
Speaker 2: twenty twenty five, out here just going through the Israel's

1586
01:20:19,600 --> 01:20:21,880
Speaker 2: a right to defend itself and release the hostages and

1587
01:20:21,920 --> 01:20:24,280
Speaker 2: like saying the same things that you've been saying for

1588
01:20:24,320 --> 01:20:26,960
Speaker 2: almost two years. At this point, the public is not

1589
01:20:27,360 --> 01:20:30,959
Speaker 2: buying it. Democrats certainly aren't. In Pens certainly aren't. Increasingly

1590
01:20:31,000 --> 01:20:34,519
Speaker 2: Republicans aren't either, And it has become a litmus test

1591
01:20:34,600 --> 01:20:37,000
Speaker 2: of whether you have a shred of integrity, whether you

1592
01:20:37,040 --> 01:20:39,800
Speaker 2: are willing to stand up to organize money, or whether

1593
01:20:39,880 --> 01:20:42,320
Speaker 2: you are just a stooge for donors. And that really

1594
01:20:42,360 --> 01:20:44,360
Speaker 2: is what it comes down to. Where Ryan is going

1595
01:20:44,400 --> 01:20:45,680
Speaker 2: to be in for Soger tomorrow. He and I are

1596
01:20:45,680 --> 01:20:49,240
Speaker 2: probably going to cover Pete booda judge's comments where look,

1597
01:20:49,520 --> 01:20:53,280
Speaker 2: eight percent of the Democratic Party, eight percent supports what

1598
01:20:53,360 --> 01:20:56,360
Speaker 2: Israel is doing, and still he can't find himself to

1599
01:20:56,720 --> 01:21:01,040
Speaker 2: have any answer yes, no, you know, up down should

1600
01:21:01,040 --> 01:21:04,640
Speaker 2: we recognize the Palestinian state? Any answer whatsoever? And you

1601
01:21:04,680 --> 01:21:09,200
Speaker 2: know why, it's clearly one hundred percent about donor maintenance,

1602
01:21:09,400 --> 01:21:12,559
Speaker 2: because it is certainly not where the Democratic base is.

1603
01:21:12,720 --> 01:21:15,160
Speaker 2: And you know, obviously this is a Republican in a

1604
01:21:15,320 --> 01:21:18,240
Speaker 2: Republican leaning district. I have no idea what the demographics

1605
01:21:18,280 --> 01:21:20,120
Speaker 2: of this district are, how tough of a reelect he

1606
01:21:20,200 --> 01:21:24,040
Speaker 2: has or whatever, but it's obviously an animating issue for

1607
01:21:24,160 --> 01:21:26,200
Speaker 2: many people. And we saw this even in our focus

1608
01:21:26,280 --> 01:21:29,040
Speaker 2: groups of the AOC Trump voters, that it came up

1609
01:21:29,120 --> 01:21:31,439
Speaker 2: much more often than we expected it to it that I.

1610
01:21:31,439 --> 01:21:34,760
Speaker 1: Wouldn't claim that this is all that representative as you

1611
01:21:34,800 --> 01:21:36,800
Speaker 1: and I know people who go to town halls are

1612
01:21:37,040 --> 01:21:40,000
Speaker 1: the most politically. Yeah, they're acts like the activists of

1613
01:21:40,120 --> 01:21:43,519
Speaker 1: the activists. But you know, I remember in twenty ten

1614
01:21:43,680 --> 01:21:45,559
Speaker 1: there was a lot of cope like what I just said.

1615
01:21:46,360 --> 01:21:49,120
Speaker 1: Remember Arlen Spector and others were getting booed and shouted

1616
01:21:49,160 --> 01:21:52,519
Speaker 1: down by Republicans, and the Democrats were like, that's just

1617
01:21:52,600 --> 01:21:56,760
Speaker 1: Republican coke planted activists, and then boom, you have this

1618
01:21:56,920 --> 01:22:00,000
Speaker 1: gigantic GOP wave in twenty ten. So like, we can't

1619
01:22:00,000 --> 01:22:02,240
Speaker 1: sit here and say that it isn't indicative of something,

1620
01:22:02,520 --> 01:22:05,679
Speaker 1: especially in midterms. Midterms are all about who's the most

1621
01:22:05,680 --> 01:22:09,080
Speaker 1: animated and enthusiastic to vote. And if Democrats are jazzed

1622
01:22:09,160 --> 01:22:12,000
Speaker 1: up around a variety of issues from Trump to Gaza

1623
01:22:12,040 --> 01:22:14,200
Speaker 1: to all that, well then they're going to put pressure

1624
01:22:14,240 --> 01:22:16,439
Speaker 1: on their elected representatives. If you have a low turnout election,

1625
01:22:16,520 --> 01:22:18,719
Speaker 1: then of course you're going to have a big blowout

1626
01:22:18,760 --> 01:22:21,639
Speaker 1: for especially a lot of the Democrats. So the point

1627
01:22:21,800 --> 01:22:24,960
Speaker 1: remains that even if it is not representative, and I

1628
01:22:25,000 --> 01:22:27,719
Speaker 1: really don't think that it is that amongst the activist

1629
01:22:27,760 --> 01:22:31,040
Speaker 1: class as Iraq was back in six as well, would

1630
01:22:31,040 --> 01:22:33,960
Speaker 1: be remiss. I mean, unfortunately, a big portion of the

1631
01:22:34,000 --> 01:22:36,439
Speaker 1: country still supported the war in Iraq in two thousand

1632
01:22:36,479 --> 01:22:39,200
Speaker 1: and six. They agreed that the war was going badly,

1633
01:22:39,439 --> 01:22:42,519
Speaker 1: but the activist base of the anti war people all

1634
01:22:42,600 --> 01:22:45,519
Speaker 1: came out to vote in six and they delivered big

1635
01:22:45,640 --> 01:22:47,240
Speaker 1: victories for the Democrats.

1636
01:22:47,280 --> 01:22:50,639
Speaker 2: Well, and think of why Barack Obama about getting the nomination.

1637
01:22:50,760 --> 01:22:54,639
Speaker 2: I mean, the Iraq war ended up being incredibly central.

1638
01:22:54,680 --> 01:22:58,080
Speaker 1: It was number one, number one. Because everyone forgets is

1639
01:22:58,120 --> 01:23:01,640
Speaker 1: Iowa that what Obama didn't Iowa it still remains like

1640
01:23:01,680 --> 01:23:04,799
Speaker 1: the blueprint for all modern politicians because he changed the electorate.

1641
01:23:04,880 --> 01:23:09,000
Speaker 1: It was all college students. I mean it's five. Look,

1642
01:23:09,000 --> 01:23:10,200
Speaker 1: who's the most animate about is world?

1643
01:23:10,360 --> 01:23:12,799
Speaker 2: I'm rebably that, even just putting aside the like horse

1644
01:23:12,880 --> 01:23:17,960
Speaker 2: race politics, so much of our political world that we

1645
01:23:18,040 --> 01:23:21,160
Speaker 2: exist on in now is downstream of the Iraq War.

1646
01:23:21,200 --> 01:23:24,400
Speaker 2: I mean Trump also in part gets the nomination because

1647
01:23:24,439 --> 01:23:26,840
Speaker 2: he decides he's going to be opposed to the Iraq War.

1648
01:23:27,280 --> 01:23:31,400
Speaker 2: So you know, I do dispute this idea that foreign

1649
01:23:31,439 --> 01:23:36,040
Speaker 2: policy never ends up. Vietnam was obviously incredibly impactful in

1650
01:23:36,080 --> 01:23:38,599
Speaker 2: terms of American politics, the Iraq War ends up being

1651
01:23:38,760 --> 01:23:41,400
Speaker 2: incredibly central, to the point that we're still dealing with

1652
01:23:41,439 --> 01:23:44,080
Speaker 2: the fall on today. And I think that this is

1653
01:23:44,400 --> 01:23:47,479
Speaker 2: such an issue because it does expose so much of

1654
01:23:47,479 --> 01:23:52,320
Speaker 2: the hypocrisy, the lies, the claims of concern about humanitarian

1655
01:23:52,400 --> 01:23:54,880
Speaker 2: issues or on the right, the claims that, oh, what's

1656
01:23:54,920 --> 01:23:57,200
Speaker 2: America first and we're just looking out for American interests.

1657
01:23:57,479 --> 01:24:00,519
Speaker 2: It really exposes the lies and the hip hopcy of

1658
01:24:00,640 --> 01:24:03,400
Speaker 2: both parties, which is why it's such an explosive issue.

1659
01:24:03,880 --> 01:24:06,240
Speaker 2: Matt Gates another thing, People are becoming more aware of

1660
01:24:06,400 --> 01:24:09,839
Speaker 2: is the role of APAC and more broadly, these Israel

1661
01:24:09,880 --> 01:24:12,120
Speaker 2: aligned entities, with the APAC being the sort of largest

1662
01:24:12,120 --> 01:24:15,799
Speaker 2: and most most influential. I would say Matt Gates revealed

1663
01:24:15,880 --> 01:24:19,160
Speaker 2: something pretty interesting about his experience when he went on

1664
01:24:19,160 --> 01:24:21,760
Speaker 2: one of these APAC trips to Israel. Let's take a

1665
01:24:21,760 --> 01:24:22,800
Speaker 2: listen to what he had to say.

1666
01:24:23,040 --> 01:24:25,880
Speaker 6: I went on that APAC trip, I went on subsequent trips,

1667
01:24:26,160 --> 01:24:30,000
Speaker 6: and there is an actual downward pressure from the leadership

1668
01:24:30,400 --> 01:24:32,519
Speaker 6: and even the committee chairs, Like if you're on the

1669
01:24:32,520 --> 01:24:35,360
Speaker 6: Foreign Affairs Committee, if you're on the Armed Services Committee,

1670
01:24:35,600 --> 01:24:38,760
Speaker 6: if you're on the Intelligence Committee, there's like an expectation

1671
01:24:38,920 --> 01:24:42,120
Speaker 6: that you go there and some sort of like Congressional

1672
01:24:42,160 --> 01:24:45,559
Speaker 6: Hodge and I remember being at the I'll never go back.

1673
01:24:45,720 --> 01:24:48,479
Speaker 6: I was at the King David Hotel and I rolled

1674
01:24:48,520 --> 01:24:51,040
Speaker 6: back to my room unexpectedly when the rest of the

1675
01:24:51,080 --> 01:24:53,439
Speaker 6: group was still on some planned activity, and there's some

1676
01:24:53,520 --> 01:24:55,479
Speaker 6: dude in my room. I'm like, hey, man, what are

1677
01:24:55,479 --> 01:24:58,560
Speaker 6: you doing here? And he acted like he was associated

1678
01:24:58,600 --> 01:25:02,040
Speaker 6: with the hotel and taking an inventory but had no clipboard.

1679
01:25:02,280 --> 01:25:05,479
Speaker 6: And so yeah, it's there's a lot of reasons why

1680
01:25:05,680 --> 01:25:09,240
Speaker 6: they want members of Congress over there and it is

1681
01:25:09,360 --> 01:25:12,759
Speaker 6: ideologically to steep them in this notion that the protection

1682
01:25:12,840 --> 01:25:15,919
Speaker 6: of Israel is of great import to people in America,

1683
01:25:16,320 --> 01:25:20,240
Speaker 6: but it's really not that important of voters, and that

1684
01:25:20,360 --> 01:25:22,320
Speaker 6: is becoming more clear on the right and left.

1685
01:25:22,800 --> 01:25:26,679
Speaker 2: So Sager Kyle and I interview Jamal Bowman, who APAX

1686
01:25:26,760 --> 01:25:29,679
Speaker 2: spent millions of dollars to get that man out of office.

1687
01:25:29,800 --> 01:25:31,200
Speaker 2: And you know, and at that time, by the way,

1688
01:25:31,240 --> 01:25:34,120
Speaker 2: his critique of Israel was quite mild and moderate, but he.

1689
01:25:34,080 --> 01:25:36,440
Speaker 1: Didn't really go that hard if fire recall.

1690
01:25:36,320 --> 01:25:37,240
Speaker 4: No, not at the time.

1691
01:25:37,920 --> 01:25:40,439
Speaker 2: And so in any case, he shared with us that

1692
01:25:40,600 --> 01:25:43,799
Speaker 2: when he first was running for Congress, how aggressively APAX

1693
01:25:43,840 --> 01:25:46,080
Speaker 2: sought to get a meeting with him. And so first

1694
01:25:46,120 --> 01:25:48,760
Speaker 2: they called and he was like, I'm not interested. You know,

1695
01:25:48,840 --> 01:25:50,840
Speaker 2: I know what they stand for. I'm not aligned. I'm

1696
01:25:50,840 --> 01:25:55,880
Speaker 2: not interested. Then they went through this respected in New

1697
01:25:55,920 --> 01:25:59,400
Speaker 2: York City organization Uplifting Black Men that was like well

1698
01:25:59,439 --> 01:26:01,759
Speaker 2: known and bom and was familiar with their work, et cetera,

1699
01:26:02,280 --> 01:26:06,160
Speaker 2: and went through them to sort of strong armed Jamal

1700
01:26:06,400 --> 01:26:10,040
Speaker 2: into taking this meeting, and you know, ends up like

1701
01:26:10,120 --> 01:26:12,240
Speaker 2: he goes this coffee and it's like the APAC person

1702
01:26:12,280 --> 01:26:15,360
Speaker 2: and the person from this organization. But that's how aggressively

1703
01:26:15,400 --> 01:26:19,800
Speaker 2: they will seek to try to cultivate these relationships. And

1704
01:26:19,840 --> 01:26:22,439
Speaker 2: then you know, there's all the propaganda that comes out

1705
01:26:22,439 --> 01:26:24,320
Speaker 2: that there's obviously the threat of millions of dollars with

1706
01:26:24,400 --> 01:26:27,040
Speaker 2: Jamal Bowman did ultimately face and is probably the reason

1707
01:26:27,040 --> 01:26:29,280
Speaker 2: he's not in Congress now, the threat of all those

1708
01:26:29,320 --> 01:26:30,800
Speaker 2: millions of dollars being dropped.

1709
01:26:30,520 --> 01:26:31,479
Speaker 4: On you, and then soccer.

1710
01:26:31,520 --> 01:26:33,840
Speaker 2: There's also just like the human sense of like, oh,

1711
01:26:33,840 --> 01:26:35,680
Speaker 2: but I know these people and like Fred is going

1712
01:26:35,760 --> 01:26:37,960
Speaker 2: to be really disappointed in me if I vote against

1713
01:26:37,960 --> 01:26:40,920
Speaker 2: this anti Semitism definition or whatever, and that can be

1714
01:26:41,080 --> 01:26:43,960
Speaker 2: very powerful as well for you know, people who are

1715
01:26:44,240 --> 01:26:47,439
Speaker 2: who up to this point there was no cost on

1716
01:26:47,479 --> 01:26:50,120
Speaker 2: the other side, you know, there was no cost to

1717
01:26:50,200 --> 01:26:53,559
Speaker 2: bear from just being lockstep with Israel every single step.

1718
01:26:53,360 --> 01:26:55,920
Speaker 1: Of the way. Well also you, I mean, you just

1719
01:26:56,080 --> 01:26:58,559
Speaker 1: laid it out well. And I will reference the Harry

1720
01:26:58,560 --> 01:27:00,639
Speaker 1: Truman thing I was just talking about of his personal

1721
01:27:00,680 --> 01:27:04,000
Speaker 1: relationships and Apac knows that. Let's go and put E

1722
01:27:04,120 --> 01:27:06,000
Speaker 1: three up on the screen just to show you. This

1723
01:27:06,040 --> 01:27:09,880
Speaker 1: is all of the Republican congressmen in Israel with Prime

1724
01:27:09,880 --> 01:27:12,600
Speaker 1: Minister net and Yahoo, the APAC trackers put all the

1725
01:27:12,640 --> 01:27:15,559
Speaker 1: money that they've received. Lest you believe that this is

1726
01:27:15,600 --> 01:27:18,439
Speaker 1: a singular partisan phenomenon, should we go to the next slide.

1727
01:27:18,960 --> 01:27:22,360
Speaker 1: What do we see there? Oh? Interesting? All of the

1728
01:27:22,360 --> 01:27:25,080
Speaker 1: House Democrats are there? Who are where are they?

1729
01:27:25,080 --> 01:27:25,400
Speaker 6: By the way?

1730
01:27:25,439 --> 01:27:28,719
Speaker 1: Something CARYO, Yeah, I have a Moss tunnel. Not sure?

1731
01:27:28,960 --> 01:27:30,680
Speaker 1: Also going on there, and look, you know not to

1732
01:27:30,960 --> 01:27:32,720
Speaker 1: not to just cape too hard for Republicans, but at

1733
01:27:32,760 --> 01:27:34,599
Speaker 1: least the Republicans are wearing suits. What are these people

1734
01:27:34,640 --> 01:27:37,720
Speaker 1: doing here? You know, on vacation shirt. You're wearing your

1735
01:27:37,760 --> 01:27:39,400
Speaker 1: a low hot shirt while you're in Israel.

1736
01:27:39,479 --> 01:27:42,599
Speaker 4: Well, and let's just draw this out for one moment further.

1737
01:27:42,800 --> 01:27:46,160
Speaker 2: Okay, this is when they're on break right Congress, the

1738
01:27:46,600 --> 01:27:48,560
Speaker 2: emergency break so that they could avoid.

1739
01:27:48,360 --> 01:27:49,599
Speaker 4: Voting on any Epstein stuff.

1740
01:27:50,000 --> 01:27:53,080
Speaker 2: Also ties back to Israel, by the way, and what

1741
01:27:53,120 --> 01:27:55,559
Speaker 2: you're supposed to do on those You're supposed to actually

1742
01:27:55,560 --> 01:27:57,240
Speaker 2: go and do what Brian Steel was doing. Go to

1743
01:27:57,360 --> 01:28:00,599
Speaker 2: town here from your constituents. You know here that they

1744
01:28:00,720 --> 01:28:03,200
Speaker 2: hate you for your view on supporting a downside and Gaza.

1745
01:28:03,240 --> 01:28:05,320
Speaker 2: That's what you're supposed to be doing right now, and

1746
01:28:05,439 --> 01:28:10,240
Speaker 2: instead at a moment when nat Yaho's security cabinet just

1747
01:28:10,439 --> 01:28:15,320
Speaker 2: voted for the complete invasion of Gaza and destruction and

1748
01:28:15,439 --> 01:28:18,439
Speaker 2: occupation of Gaza City in particular as part of a

1749
01:28:18,439 --> 01:28:22,479
Speaker 2: plan to fully completely displace the population of the Gaza strip.

1750
01:28:22,760 --> 01:28:25,559
Speaker 2: Here you are on an APAC sponsored trip, having a

1751
01:28:25,560 --> 01:28:29,280
Speaker 2: little smiley happy time in whatever this weird tunnel is

1752
01:28:29,760 --> 01:28:32,920
Speaker 2: while this is all going on, and you dare say

1753
01:28:32,920 --> 01:28:36,280
Speaker 2: that you're representing the American people, You dare say, for

1754
01:28:36,439 --> 01:28:39,400
Speaker 2: the Democrat side, that you care about human rights, like,

1755
01:28:39,720 --> 01:28:43,280
Speaker 2: no one should take these people seriously ever again, every

1756
01:28:43,320 --> 01:28:46,200
Speaker 2: single one of them should be primaried, every single one

1757
01:28:46,240 --> 01:28:48,599
Speaker 2: of them should be voted out of office because they.

1758
01:28:48,479 --> 01:28:49,439
Speaker 4: Do not care about you.

1759
01:28:49,680 --> 01:28:52,080
Speaker 1: Thanks for watching, guys. We'll see you all tomorrow. Ryan

1760
01:28:52,120 --> 01:28:53,439
Speaker 1: will be in for me, but then I'll be in

1761
01:28:53,439 --> 01:28:55,320
Speaker 1: for him on Wednesday, so we get an little switcher

1762
01:28:55,560 --> 01:29:02,040
Speaker 1: here on the show. So I'll see you then.