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Speaker 1: Welcome to The Laverne Cox Show, a production of Shondaland

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Speaker 1: Audio in partnership with iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: It's not just us sitting around complaining about some bills.

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Speaker 2: The only reason that you might think, as Chase said,

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Speaker 2: that we're always miserable, is because people are constantly attacking

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Speaker 2: us and we're constantly noticing it. It's not like I've

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Speaker 2: been upset every day when I woke up. It's that

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Speaker 2: every single time when I read the paper every morning,

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Speaker 2: New York Times.

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Speaker 3: But now some other story attacking me. That's what's wrong.

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Speaker 3: That's what's true.

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Speaker 1: Hello everyone, and welcome to the Laverne Cox Show. My

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Speaker 1: name is Laverne Cox. As of the day we're recording

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Speaker 1: this February sixteen, twenty twenty three, over three hundred pieces

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Speaker 1: of anti trans legislation have been introduced in state legislatures

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Speaker 1: all over the country. That's since January of this year.

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Speaker 1: And that legislation targets the ability of trans folks to

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Speaker 1: access gender affirming care, not only for trans kids, but

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Speaker 1: for trans adults. And a huge reason why this lesstulation

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Speaker 1: has been so successful is that the conversation with and

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Speaker 1: about trans people has been captured by folks who don't

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Speaker 1: want trans people to exist. I feel like a huge

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Speaker 1: part of my work in the media since I've become

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Speaker 1: a public figure, has been about changing the conversation that

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Speaker 1: we have with and about trans people away from surgery

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Speaker 1: and transition and towards our humanity. So today we need

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Speaker 1: to have a conversation about reclaiming the narrative with and

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Speaker 1: about trans people from the perspective of trans humanity, from

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Speaker 1: a perspective that trans people have a right to exist

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Speaker 1: in the world on our own terms and have bodily autonomy.

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Speaker 1: So to have this discussion today, I've invited two of

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Speaker 1: my dearest friends, Chase Strangio. Chase is Deputy Director of

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Speaker 1: Transgender Justice with the ACLUS LGBT and HIV Project and

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Speaker 1: a nationally recognized expert on transgender rights. In addition to

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Speaker 1: his litigation work, Chase leads the ACLU's advocacy to defeat

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Speaker 1: anti trans laws and state legislatures. Chase has appeared on

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Speaker 1: Rachel Maddow, MSNBC, CNN, PBS News Hour, and many more.

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Speaker 1: In twenty twenty, he was included in Time Magazine's list

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Speaker 1: of the one hundred most influential people in the World.

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Speaker 1: Miss Peppermint is the ACLU's first ever Artist Ambassador for

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Speaker 1: Trans Justice. She is an actress and singer with six

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Speaker 1: albums to her credit and many many Glad Award nominations.

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Speaker 1: She was the runner up in season nine of RuPaul's

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Speaker 1: Drag Race as the first out trans contestant to be cast,

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Speaker 1: and made history as the first trans woman to originate

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Speaker 1: a principal role on Broadway in twenty eighteen for the

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Speaker 1: show Head Over Heels. Some of her most recent work

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Speaker 1: It's Hulse rom com Fire Island, and Netflix's Survival of

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Speaker 1: the Thickest. Please enjoy my conversation with Chase Strangio and

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Speaker 1: with Miss Peppermint. Hello, Chase and Peppermint, Welcome to the podcast.

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Speaker 1: How are you feeling today? Peppermint? How are you feeling?

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Speaker 3: Happy to be with you here today? And Chase?

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Speaker 2: In spite of all of the weeks and years and months,

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Speaker 2: and it feels like millennia of bad news that seems

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Speaker 2: to come down the pipeline attacking our community, but I'm great.

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Speaker 1: Chase Darling, how are you today? I am?

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Speaker 4: Here's what Will said when I woke up, I was

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Speaker 4: not feeling today, and then I was like, you know what.

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Speaker 5: I'm talking to Laverne and Peppermint later and that is

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Speaker 5: going to be my boost.

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Speaker 4: And so I am feeling the energetic boost just sharing

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Speaker 4: this virtual space with you both.

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Speaker 5: I already like feel my heart rate going down.

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Speaker 4: I feel more at ease because I needed this, So

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Speaker 4: I feel great.

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Speaker 1: Thank you for that, Chase. I want to start off

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Speaker 1: by saying that I want to have a conversation about

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Speaker 1: how we change the conversation around how we talk with

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Speaker 1: and about trans people. Last season on this podcast, Chase

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Speaker 1: and I had a conversation where we delved very deeply

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Speaker 1: into the very specific right wing propaganda. We listened to clips,

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Speaker 1: we discussed, and I left that podcast re traumatized. I

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Speaker 1: don't know if I told you this, Chase. I went

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Speaker 1: and cried after you left. I cried for like twenty minutes,

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Speaker 1: and I was like, no one's going to hear this.

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Speaker 1: The people who need to hear it aren't this. I

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Speaker 1: just reached aumatize myself for no reason, and I don't

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Speaker 1: want today's podcast to be that way. I often watch

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Speaker 1: the news and watch stories, watch hearings, clips from hearings,

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Speaker 1: and just feel defeated and victimized and traumatized, and I

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Speaker 1: don't want us to leave here today with that feeling.

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Speaker 1: I want us to leave here empowered, acknowledging the attempts

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Speaker 1: of legislative genocide that's happening against our community, be truthful

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Speaker 1: about that. But I want to come away feeling empowered

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Speaker 1: and not like victimized and exhausted from this. I want

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Speaker 1: this to be invigorating for us and for our community,

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Speaker 1: and I want to try to model a way to

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Speaker 1: have this conversation on our terms and not theirs. All

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Speaker 1: this fucked up shit is happening, but like, we must

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Speaker 1: not lose our hope, our sense of like ourselves. And

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Speaker 1: I think too, this is the lesson I'll say, and

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Speaker 1: I'll let you guys come in. I think that, like

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Speaker 1: what happens when I watch these hearings, when I watch

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Speaker 1: this propaganda, is that all of my own the things

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Speaker 1: I've internalized it by myself as a transperson, come up again.

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Speaker 1: That like, we are raised in the same society that

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Speaker 1: like treats us and sees us as less than as

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Speaker 1: somehow fraudulent, and then we see these stories and see

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Speaker 1: this legislation, and it brings up all that stuff again,

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Speaker 1: and so we have to like talk about our trauma,

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Speaker 1: acknowledge it and not be allowed to be taken back

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Speaker 1: into that traumatizing space. We have to be able to

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Speaker 1: be present with like the beauty of who we are,

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Speaker 1: with the humanity of who we are, and again not

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Speaker 1: see ourselves through their lens and their terms, but on

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Speaker 1: our terms. Do you feel me?

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Speaker 2: Yes, speaking from my own perspective, that balance of needing

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Speaker 2: to and being able to experience a sense of joy

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Speaker 2: and life living just my truth and my life and

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Speaker 2: in my authenticity as a trans woman, as a black

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Speaker 2: trans woman, as a person of many identities, intersectional existence

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Speaker 2: that occurred to me through performing in Drag When I

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Speaker 2: was doing my show, and I knew that people wanted

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Speaker 2: to hear a remix and do a dance move and

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Speaker 2: all these things, which is why they came to the

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Speaker 2: Gay Bar to see my show.

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Speaker 3: But then I also it was really important for me.

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Speaker 2: To advocate on behalf of our community with whatever issues

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Speaker 2: were going on at the time. I was really heavily

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Speaker 2: involved in AIDS and HIV education and prevention, and so

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Speaker 2: I would do sort of activations at my show, and

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Speaker 2: you know, I thought to myself, is this really my place?

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Speaker 3: To do this.

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Speaker 2: I'm not some like professional advocate or anything, but I

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Speaker 2: know that I come from a long line of people

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Speaker 2: in our community that we live fabulously every single day

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Speaker 2: while we are performing everyday activism, and so I think

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Speaker 2: having that balance, like you said, is really important. I

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Speaker 2: guess the key is, too, like you said, leave at

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Speaker 2: the end of the day with a sense of joy

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Speaker 2: and knowing that we can withstand anything that we will

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Speaker 2: eventually overcome.

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Speaker 3: Without sounding too cliche, yeah.

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Speaker 1: Chase, And for you, you are quite literally in the fight.

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Speaker 1: You're fighting me these bills in court every single day.

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Speaker 1: This is like your whole life, and I can only

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Speaker 1: imagine how overwhelming it is. At this point, about three

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Speaker 1: hundred pieces of anti trans legislation have been introduced in

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Speaker 1: state legislatures all over the country. This is the most

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Speaker 1: that we've ever seen, Is that, correct, Chase? Can you

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Speaker 1: just give us a rundown of where we are legislatively?

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Speaker 4: Yeah?

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Speaker 5: So it's so bad.

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Speaker 4: I almost don't even know where to begin, and so

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Speaker 4: much of my life is now consumed with both fighting

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Speaker 4: the bills legislatively, preparing to litigate in court. But I

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Speaker 4: think perhaps the most challenging part is sort of talking

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Speaker 4: to people about the limits on what we can do

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Speaker 4: in those spaces. We simply are not beating them legislatively.

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Speaker 4: We're losing in so many of the bills are passing

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Speaker 4: so separate and apart from the three hundred number, which

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Speaker 4: is staggering in a sign of just how gratuitous it

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Speaker 4: has all become more concerning is the fact that this

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Speaker 4: is quite literally the number one priority for Republican led

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Speaker 4: legislatures across the country. Hearings are being had day one,

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Speaker 4: bills are being passed within a week. We are in

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Speaker 4: a situation and it's truly horrifying, and I have to say,

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Speaker 4: as a relatively cynical person, even I didn't think it

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Speaker 4: would get this bad so quickly. Where we could leave

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Speaker 4: twenty twenty three legislative sessions with fifteen states banning gender

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Speaker 4: affirming care for adolescences, and some of those quite frankly,

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Speaker 4: could be banning them for adults.

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Speaker 5: That is where we're at, And then.

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Speaker 4: We are preparing to litigate, but we are litigating in

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Speaker 4: stacked courts where I simply have to tell people that

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Speaker 4: we will likely not win. So what that means is

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Speaker 4: going back to your original point, is we are just

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Speaker 4: gonna have to find the joy in the process. In

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Speaker 4: our existence. I'm not looking to the government to give

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Speaker 4: me my joy. I'm not looking to the government to

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Speaker 4: validate my existence. I find that within myself and in community.

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Speaker 4: That's why when I woke up this morning and I

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Speaker 4: was like, already I was in a bad mood. Then

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Speaker 4: there was the defense of jk Rowling piece in the

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Speaker 4: New York Times. I was like, is this the onion

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Speaker 4: number two?

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Speaker 5: And then I was like, you know what, I wait,

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Speaker 5: gonna talk to la Verne.

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Speaker 1: And pup be kind rewind. This morning there was a

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Speaker 1: defense of jk Rowling. And I don't like to say

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Speaker 1: her name, but like, let's we'll say her name today.

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Speaker 1: There's a defense of jk Rowling the New York Times

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Speaker 1: this morning.

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Speaker 2: Like as of this recording, you mean in the heels

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Speaker 2: of yesterday or two days ago.

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Speaker 4: Oh, let's just let me take you all on a journey,

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Speaker 4: a twenty four hour journey, which is yesterday. You have

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Speaker 4: two letters that go to The New York Times. One

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Speaker 4: is from contributors to The New York Times speaking about

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Speaker 4: the very significant flaws of the coverage of trans people

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Speaker 4: in the New York Times. Which, by the way, I've

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Speaker 4: been writing about since twenty sixteen. Number two, there's a

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Speaker 4: letter that's led by Glad with sign on signatories from

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Speaker 4: organizations critiquing The New York Times for the incredibly biased

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Speaker 4: coverage of trans people. The New York Times issues the

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Speaker 4: most defensive response that's like basically a slap in the

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Speaker 4: face of trans people and combines the two letters that

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Speaker 4: basically says, you are advocates, we're real journalists, we are

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Speaker 4: proud of our coverage. We have a huge amount of

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Speaker 4: sensitivity to trans people. By the way, this is from

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Speaker 4: their communications person who like used to work for the

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Speaker 4: CIA or something, which is very on brand and not surprising.

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Speaker 5: I kid you not.

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Speaker 4: We wake up this morning and Pamela Paul has written

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Speaker 4: a op ed that is titled in Defense of JK.

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Speaker 4: Rowling that is just the most transphobic piece you've ever seen.

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Speaker 4: And I saw the image and I thought it was

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Speaker 4: the onion because it was too ridiculous to be believed

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Speaker 4: to be true. So we have states trying to criminalize

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Speaker 4: us for going to the bathroom, states banning our healthcare,

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Speaker 4: we have courts doing what they're doing, and then we

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Speaker 4: have Miss Pamela Paul and j ak Rowling situating themselves

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Speaker 4: as the victims. And by the way, and someone made

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Speaker 4: this point on Twitter, not a single billionaire needs defending, period,

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Speaker 4: full stop. So that is where we're at. Not very positive,

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Speaker 4: but I'm here with you all and I feel good.

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Speaker 4: I was like, you know what, this is what I need? Well,

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Speaker 4: we're here.

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Speaker 1: Where we are is that it feels like anti trans

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Speaker 1: sentiment has gone quite mainstream. And I think about what's

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Speaker 1: happened in Great Britain with the anti trans movement there,

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Speaker 1: and I fear that might be happening here. So in

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Speaker 1: the face of all of that, I think it's important

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Speaker 1: to push back against the times. It's important to push

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Speaker 1: back against all of these things. But I think it's like,

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Speaker 1: how do we then, for us, change the conversation that

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Speaker 1: is empowering for us, that is instructive for people in

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Speaker 1: who might be allies to reclaim this space. I think

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Speaker 1: like they've done such a good job of manufacturing consent

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Speaker 1: and like having the conversation on their terms. How do

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Speaker 1: we take that back? I have contended that first of all,

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Speaker 1: none of this has ever been about the children. They've

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Speaker 1: been able to use children as you know, as trojan

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Speaker 1: horse to get all this legislation passed. But it's never

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Speaker 1: been about children. And I think Oklahoma and all these

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Speaker 1: other states where they which want to ban gender firming

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Speaker 1: care for everybody, indicates that. So, like, I feel like

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Speaker 1: whenever we like have conversations about children, we are conceding

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Speaker 1: their points when we say it's up for debate, how

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Speaker 1: young is too young? When it's up for debate, then

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Speaker 1: we're having the conversation on their terms. Ultimately, it's none

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Speaker 1: of their business. It's no one's business whether someone adult

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Speaker 1: or child is seeking gender firming care of any kind.

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Speaker 1: What do you guys think?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree with you. I mean it is it's

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Speaker 2: almost mind blowing how they've succeeded, especially considering that they

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Speaker 2: have the points that they're making. When someone who's at

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Speaker 2: least in the community and somewhat educated and experienced realizes

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Speaker 2: that these points are just many of them are ridiculous

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Speaker 2: and obviously false. It's dizzying them talking about, you know, kids,

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Speaker 2: and then talking about drag queens, and then talking about

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Speaker 2: all these different things that are obviously all aimed at

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Speaker 2: the trans community and eliminating our rights in public spaces.

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Speaker 3: In all types of spaces. On one hand, my.

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Speaker 2: Fear is that if we don't say, no, actually, drag

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Speaker 2: queens aren't, you know, sexually assaulting children at book readings.

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Speaker 2: If we don't say that, then it's almost like arguing

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Speaker 2: their point is conceding it. But then if you don't say,

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Speaker 2: they're able to manipulate and dominate that space and this

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Speaker 2: conversation in this realm, this forum, the drag queen conversation forum,

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Speaker 2: or the children getting surgeries for them, which none of

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Speaker 2: these things are happening in any reality, but they're able

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Speaker 2: to like create this venue and then bring us into

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Speaker 2: it to talk about it. Meanwhile, what they're really doing

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Speaker 2: in the legislative sessions is passing all of this discrim

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Speaker 2: natory policy because we're not really that connected and coordinated

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Speaker 2: as much as they are. And so what I think

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Speaker 2: we need to do we start the day with living

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Speaker 2: in our joy, and then we end the day with

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Speaker 2: living our joy. But in the middle of the day,

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Speaker 2: we need to get all of the rest of these

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Speaker 2: trans TikTokers and Grammy Award winning transgender people were making

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Speaker 2: history to get on board with the conversation. It's not

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Speaker 2: enough to be like yay, you have ten million followers,

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Speaker 2: But let's be like yay, let's use this.

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Speaker 3: To talk about what they're really really doing to us.

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Speaker 2: These people are passing laws and policies that would make

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Speaker 2: it really difficult for the average person to exist in

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Speaker 2: their transness, and so we really need to get these

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Speaker 2: people talking about this and snap into reality it's not

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Speaker 2: just about their own personal journey.

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Speaker 3: Sorry.

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Speaker 1: I think though everyone's not qualified. Like sometimes it's like,

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Speaker 1: just because you're a public figure in your trans doesn't

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Speaker 1: mean you're going to have a certain depth. And I

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Speaker 1: don't want to be elitist about this, but like everyone

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Speaker 1: is not necessarily qualified to have these conversations, and so

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Speaker 1: like calling on every public figure who's trans to like,

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Speaker 1: you know, say something when they really maybe don't have

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Speaker 1: the depth, then it's I think it's problematic. And I

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Speaker 1: think a lot of especially young trans people, sometimes just

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Speaker 1: want to live their lives and like just be themselves

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Speaker 1: without the burden of like the weight of being trans, right,

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Speaker 1: the weight of the discrimination, the weight of people's sort

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Speaker 1: of assumptions and things that they want to put on us.

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Speaker 1: And so I get that and I want to honor that.

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Speaker 1: So I hear you, and it's like what conservatives have

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Speaker 1: done very well, what ters have done very well is

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Speaker 1: getting everybody on the same page with the language. I

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Speaker 1: don't know, if there's a memo that goes out, there's

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Speaker 1: an email, they get on board with a quickness. And

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Speaker 1: this week when I think your name is doctor Gwendolen

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Speaker 1: her tape her testimony in Arkansas when the Republican legislator

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Speaker 1: asked her about her genitalia a doctor as she was testifying,

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Speaker 1: I wish that she had been like, this is really

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Speaker 1: dehumanizing and that this is what allows these bills to

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Speaker 1: be passed, that you don't see us as human beings

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Speaker 1: deserving of respect. When Matt Walsh was testifying in Tennessee,

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Speaker 1: when they use language like chemical castration and mutilation, that

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Speaker 1: that is objectifying and dehumanizing. So there's all of this

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Speaker 1: very specific language and ways in which they have talked

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Speaker 1: about us that objectifies us, reduces us to body parts,

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Speaker 1: and procedures to paint us in the most horrible through

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Speaker 1: retrograde ways that you can imagine, and then now they're

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Speaker 1: taking away our rights. There is a correlation between those things.

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Speaker 1: So like to frame it in a way where we're

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Speaker 1: like this is a coordinated effort right in the whole

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Speaker 1: media project from both Turfs and apparently the New York Times,

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Speaker 1: and you know, right the right wing sort of ecosystem

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Speaker 1: is to dehumanize us. That leads directly to these anti

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Speaker 1: trans bills and this legislative assault. This is a good

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Speaker 1: time to take a little break. We'll be right back though.

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Speaker 1: All right, we're back, Chase. You are engaged on a

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Speaker 1: daily basis in finding language to combat this legislation and

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Speaker 1: these narratives. Is there way that we could be having

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Speaker 1: these conversations in a different way that focus on our

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Speaker 1: humanity and don't lean into the language and the terms

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Speaker 1: that are being set by anti transforces.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, so I think two main things.

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Speaker 4: I think first, I just go back to the conversation

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Speaker 4: you had with Katie Kuric in twenty fourteen, Like, on

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Speaker 4: some level, it's a little bit disheartening that we're still there,

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Speaker 4: right like that was nine years ago. And the same thing,

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Speaker 4: the way in which our bodies are being positioned in

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Speaker 4: the conversation is not progressing. And I think we continue

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Speaker 4: to see the ways in which our bodies are never

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Speaker 4: really held.

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Speaker 5: With grace and respect and dignity.

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Speaker 4: You know, there were the legislators in Arkansas, but I

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Speaker 4: just came and I testified in Tennessee. I was testifying

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Speaker 4: about the law about litigation, about my experiences litergating at

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Speaker 4: the Supreme Court, but I talked about also being trans.

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Speaker 4: And at the end of my testimony, which was maybe

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Speaker 4: I was up there for maybe six minutes, the chair

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Speaker 4: of the committee said, thank you for telling us about

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Speaker 4: your condition, and.

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Speaker 5: I was like, that's what you got out of this,

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Speaker 5: Like the second you just.

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Speaker 4: Close your transness, people are just seeing your body and

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Speaker 4: sexualizing you or trying to understand you through the lens

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Speaker 4: of a deeply dehumanizing frame. And one of the main

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Speaker 4: reasons is because our allies haven't shown up. The center left,

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Speaker 4: the progressives have failed us so tremendously. Then the second

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Speaker 4: thing I'll say is sort of how we shift what

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Speaker 4: do we do? I think we need to de exceptionalize

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Speaker 4: the attacks on tra people, and that is to say,

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Speaker 4: this is exactly what happened in the Anita Bryan attacks

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Speaker 4: on gay people, this is exactly what happened in the

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Speaker 4: abortion context.

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Speaker 5: And in fact, the human beings doing it are the same.

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Speaker 4: The same legislator for example, in Idaho that introduced the

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Speaker 4: bill and just now that would make taking a miner

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Speaker 4: out of the state to get an abortion a form

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Speaker 4: of trafficking was the same person who introduced the anti

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Speaker 4: transports bill. Unfortunately, the CIS women got on board with

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Speaker 4: her rhetoric around trans girls in sports while she was

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Speaker 4: plotting their own destruction to take away their rights in

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Speaker 4: the context of abortion and reproductive autonomy. So until we

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Speaker 4: understand that none of this is exceptional and is part

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Speaker 4: of a very large global project.

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Speaker 5: That you know, it's not about trans people.

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Speaker 4: On the one hand, it is it's about our bodies

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Speaker 4: being deeply, deeply dehumanized, and that's allowing this rhetoric to

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Speaker 4: be pushed forward in state legislatures.

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Speaker 1: But the endgame is bigger than us. The connection, I think,

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Speaker 1: you know, it's so important. This is why we need intersectionality.

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Speaker 1: I think this is why Ron de Santas does not

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Speaker 1: want intersectionality taught in Florida, because we need an intersectional

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Speaker 1: lens to talk about this and the divide and conquer strategy.

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Speaker 1: It's so I mean, understanding the connection between anti semitism,

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Speaker 1: anti trans legislation, attacks on bodily autonomy for people who

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Speaker 1: can get pregnant, racism, all of these things are deeply,

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Speaker 1: deeply connected. Right when we see black folks who are

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Speaker 1: anti trans, or when we see women who are anti trans,

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Speaker 1: it's like the same people who want to take away

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Speaker 1: trans rights want to take away your rights as well

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Speaker 1: as a woman as a person of color, it's the

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Speaker 1: same folks. So it's like this divide and conquer thing

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Speaker 1: that we really have to like have an understanding of.

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Speaker 1: I wonder where a class analysis could be positioned in

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Speaker 1: this in some way as well, because I think that, like,

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Speaker 1: there are a lot of what I see in left

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Speaker 1: politics is like there's either race reductionists or class reductionists.

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Speaker 1: A lot of class reductionists on the left to feel

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Speaker 1: like and understand that trans issues are a distractionist so

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Speaker 1: don't even want to go there, right, So I see

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Speaker 1: a lot of that on the left. I don't know

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Speaker 1: if you guys agree, but I think that like when

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Speaker 1: we have leftists to want to kind of have it

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Speaker 1: be about class and don't understand or want to acknowledge

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Speaker 1: the ways in which race, gender, abortion rights, reproductive rights,

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Speaker 1: and trans folks and LGBTQ plus folks become ways in

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Speaker 1: which working class people become divided, the intersectional piece is missed,

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Speaker 1: and then we don't have the holistic perspective and conversation.

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Speaker 2: Yes completely, I think that that all ties together with

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Speaker 2: what Chase said about our allies not stepping up, and

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Speaker 2: this conversation does need to happen, and we need to

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Speaker 2: Certainly more education needs to happen for our allies and

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Speaker 2: even within the community, you know, hopefully getting people on board.

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Speaker 2: But I think that that conversation is taking place on

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Speaker 2: the internet, taking place on TikTok right now. Unfortunately, these

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Speaker 2: people identify in the left as progressive think that because

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Speaker 2: they're able to celebrate a trans person on this TV

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Speaker 2: show or that TV show, then the war is over

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Speaker 2: and that the work as an ally it is done.

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Speaker 2: All I know is I saw somebody on a TV

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Speaker 2: show last night, and this one girl has billions and

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Speaker 2: billions of followers and she's getting this award and she's

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Speaker 2: being cast in this So they got it.

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Speaker 3: I think that's where the allies are.

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Speaker 1: So they think that visibility, because trans people are more visible,

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Speaker 1: that the fight is won. And so we need to

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Speaker 1: say that this transvisibility, we're experiencing backlash against that visibility.

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Speaker 1: Right there's an intense organized backlash against all this transvisibility

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Speaker 1: that we're seeing. That's unprecedented that there is a legislative

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Speaker 1: backlash against that happening right now. So it's not enough

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Speaker 1: that trans people are on TV and winning awards and

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Speaker 1: have millions of followers.

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Speaker 3: They're using that some of the folks who are younger

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Speaker 3: and not engaged or don't seem to be as connected

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Speaker 3: to this conversation that we're having, this very serious conversation.

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Speaker 3: I think they also think because I'm visible, we won,

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Speaker 3: so there's no more work to be done. I'm young,

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Speaker 3: and I'm out there and just living my life. Is good.

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Speaker 2: You mentioned the Katie Kuric interview, which I think definitely

436
00:24:18,960 --> 00:24:23,560
Speaker 2: changed the way that journalism, at least for a time period,

437
00:24:24,040 --> 00:24:27,560
Speaker 2: covered trans bodies and transistence. Because of you and Carmen's

438
00:24:27,760 --> 00:24:29,880
Speaker 2: experience on the Katy kirkshow we were able to move

439
00:24:29,920 --> 00:24:31,720
Speaker 2: beyond listening our surgeries.

440
00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:33,600
Speaker 3: But now here we are on TikTok and all.

441
00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:36,920
Speaker 2: These other things with transgender people just listing their surgeries,

442
00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:40,080
Speaker 2: ten millions followers, and that's it. They're not talking about

443
00:24:40,119 --> 00:24:43,160
Speaker 2: anything else. They're just talking about I'll reveal, and our

444
00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:46,280
Speaker 2: allies are certainly thinking it's okay. We're giving them permission

445
00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:47,880
Speaker 2: to talk about our bodies because we're not talking about

446
00:24:47,920 --> 00:24:49,840
Speaker 2: anything else. Only a few of us who are not

447
00:24:49,920 --> 00:24:52,639
Speaker 2: elevated to those same platforms. And so that's why I

448
00:24:52,640 --> 00:24:55,840
Speaker 2: think it's very important. Since the conversation is happening on

449
00:24:55,880 --> 00:24:59,040
Speaker 2: the Internet. It's not happening on television. Nobody's tuning into

450
00:24:59,080 --> 00:25:02,320
Speaker 2: c SPAN. It's happened on your Instagram account today, and

451
00:25:02,560 --> 00:25:05,520
Speaker 2: those people who are the most followed I think have

452
00:25:05,640 --> 00:25:06,199
Speaker 2: staken this.

453
00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:10,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's deep because because I think it's really different

454
00:25:11,119 --> 00:25:16,720
Speaker 1: when a trans person offers up without prompting what their

455
00:25:16,760 --> 00:25:21,359
Speaker 1: surgical journey, their medical transition journey, their genital status, if

456
00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:23,359
Speaker 1: they want to do that, I think that's really different

457
00:25:23,359 --> 00:25:26,560
Speaker 1: than a journalist or reporter or a politician asking us

458
00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:29,359
Speaker 1: about that. I think that information can be valuable for

459
00:25:29,440 --> 00:25:32,359
Speaker 1: other trans people. I do feel like if you're not

460
00:25:32,600 --> 00:25:35,960
Speaker 1: trans and you're like engaging in like how someone is

461
00:25:36,040 --> 00:25:39,679
Speaker 1: transitioned medically, and it feels like spectacle, it feels like

462
00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:42,119
Speaker 1: I don't know what you're getting out of that. For

463
00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:45,080
Speaker 1: other trans people, I get it, but I'm remiss to

464
00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:48,840
Speaker 1: like police, how other trans folks want to represent themselves.

465
00:25:48,840 --> 00:25:51,240
Speaker 1: I don't know police people's hustles, right, because there's a

466
00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:55,080
Speaker 1: hustle involved, and it's like there's a capitalism right speaking intersectionality,

467
00:25:55,200 --> 00:25:58,360
Speaker 1: there's capitalism involved in this too. When you are you know,

468
00:25:59,080 --> 00:26:02,880
Speaker 1: this is how this person making money. So it gets

469
00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:04,639
Speaker 1: really tricky, right, So it's like, but how do we

470
00:26:04,680 --> 00:26:07,560
Speaker 1: have a critical relationship to that. How do we say that.

471
00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:10,760
Speaker 1: It's one thing for a trans person to document their

472
00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:15,240
Speaker 1: transition online for themselves, but it's quite another for someone

473
00:26:15,280 --> 00:26:19,160
Speaker 1: who's not trans to bring it up when we've made

474
00:26:19,200 --> 00:26:21,520
Speaker 1: it the conversation, it's like, how do you're going to

475
00:26:21,560 --> 00:26:22,360
Speaker 1: participate in it?

476
00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:24,960
Speaker 4: Well, but I think it's really complicated and we have to,

477
00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:26,479
Speaker 4: to your point, understand the overlay.

478
00:26:26,520 --> 00:26:28,000
Speaker 5: There's like the capitalism of it.

479
00:26:28,040 --> 00:26:31,199
Speaker 4: There's all of the history of policing trans bodies and

480
00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:33,320
Speaker 4: overly sexualizing us. So at the end of the day,

481
00:26:33,520 --> 00:26:38,320
Speaker 4: our hustles historically have often been in spaces of sexualization

482
00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:40,560
Speaker 4: because that's how we are seen. No matter what, every

483
00:26:40,560 --> 00:26:42,440
Speaker 4: time I go in to talk about law, I'm still

484
00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:45,360
Speaker 4: seen that way. So again we're pushed in these directions

485
00:26:45,359 --> 00:26:50,080
Speaker 4: where whatever we do to try to exist in the world,

486
00:26:50,280 --> 00:26:52,400
Speaker 4: people are thinking about our genitals. Once you start thinking

487
00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:54,960
Speaker 4: about genitals, you're starting to be sexualized. That's just how

488
00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:58,000
Speaker 4: it goes. And so I think the overlay is our

489
00:26:58,119 --> 00:27:04,199
Speaker 4: hustles end up being in the lens of consumption around

490
00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:07,480
Speaker 4: bodies and sex, and that is something that is not necessary.

491
00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:09,680
Speaker 4: Like we have agency, and I want to honor our

492
00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:12,919
Speaker 4: agency and their constraints that are imposed upon us because

493
00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:15,400
Speaker 4: of these systems of violence and impression, many of which

494
00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:18,840
Speaker 4: are deeply rooted in historical white supremacy and other forms

495
00:27:19,080 --> 00:27:22,120
Speaker 4: of violence and colonialism. So there's that piece of it.

496
00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:24,600
Speaker 4: And I think it's really important as we gear up

497
00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:27,840
Speaker 4: for a presidential election because we will be told over

498
00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:31,560
Speaker 4: and over again that talking about trans people and caring

499
00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:33,880
Speaker 4: about trans people is a distraction of from what.

500
00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:36,480
Speaker 5: People actually quote unquote care about.

501
00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:40,280
Speaker 4: And keep in mind, the people introducing trans people into

502
00:27:40,280 --> 00:27:44,200
Speaker 4: the conversation are the right, please leave us alone, thank

503
00:27:44,240 --> 00:27:47,640
Speaker 4: you in the next presidential election. But we're positive in

504
00:27:47,680 --> 00:27:52,120
Speaker 4: this exact way because it's a gateway to this structural

505
00:27:52,160 --> 00:27:57,600
Speaker 4: takeover of legislatures, of control of material goods. And so

506
00:27:57,640 --> 00:28:00,120
Speaker 4: I think if we get sucked into though. What is

507
00:27:59,880 --> 00:28:02,600
Speaker 4: or is not a distraction. It's all connected. Nothing is

508
00:28:02,600 --> 00:28:05,159
Speaker 4: a distraction unless we let ourselves be distracted.

509
00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:08,840
Speaker 1: Absolutely, because ultimately it's about civil rights. It's ultimately like

510
00:28:09,080 --> 00:28:11,080
Speaker 1: for every trans person who's like I don't want to

511
00:28:11,080 --> 00:28:15,040
Speaker 1: think about politics, if you live live in Arkansas or Tennessee,

512
00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:17,199
Speaker 1: you might wake up and like need to go and

513
00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:19,760
Speaker 1: get your hormones and you can't. Like you may need

514
00:28:19,800 --> 00:28:22,280
Speaker 1: to go to the doctor and you get you're a

515
00:28:22,320 --> 00:28:25,320
Speaker 1: therapist and you can't. I mean, like we're talking about

516
00:28:25,359 --> 00:28:29,360
Speaker 1: like the material realities of people's lives around being able

517
00:28:29,359 --> 00:28:33,119
Speaker 1: to access care that is being jeopardized right now. DeSantis

518
00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:37,560
Speaker 1: in Florida has directed Medicaid to not cover anything trans related. Right,

519
00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:40,720
Speaker 1: So this is like all the trans people on Medicaid

520
00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:43,520
Speaker 1: in the state of Florida, none of their care can

521
00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:46,320
Speaker 1: be covered anymore. I would have been screwed, right, This

522
00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:48,480
Speaker 1: is really what we're talking about. So if we can

523
00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:51,040
Speaker 1: kind of just make it real, Like, can you talk

524
00:28:51,280 --> 00:28:53,360
Speaker 1: Chase too. I know peppermanh you're aware of this. There

525
00:28:53,360 --> 00:28:56,080
Speaker 1: are families who are like figuring out how to flee

526
00:28:56,320 --> 00:29:00,560
Speaker 1: states that have these laws that criminalize parents who support

527
00:29:00,560 --> 00:29:02,800
Speaker 1: their trans kids. Can we I don't know either one.

528
00:29:02,840 --> 00:29:05,200
Speaker 1: If you want to speak to that, yeah, I mean,

529
00:29:05,720 --> 00:29:06,240
Speaker 1: I'm in.

530
00:29:06,120 --> 00:29:08,080
Speaker 4: This situation now where we're not going to be able

531
00:29:08,080 --> 00:29:10,040
Speaker 4: to sue over every law. That's not going to be

532
00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:11,920
Speaker 4: the pathway for a lot of people. But in places

533
00:29:11,920 --> 00:29:14,959
Speaker 4: where we are planning litigation, a lot of the families

534
00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:16,959
Speaker 4: that we're talking to are like, no, we're not going

535
00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:18,120
Speaker 4: to litigate, We're going to leave.

536
00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:20,280
Speaker 5: And that is an awful reality.

537
00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:22,600
Speaker 4: Nobody should have to displace their life to get health

538
00:29:22,600 --> 00:29:23,920
Speaker 4: care for themselves or their children.

539
00:29:24,080 --> 00:29:25,080
Speaker 5: But to the point.

540
00:29:24,840 --> 00:29:27,800
Speaker 4: About soon people in Arkansas or Texas or Tennessee are

541
00:29:27,800 --> 00:29:28,920
Speaker 4: going to wake up and not be able to get

542
00:29:28,920 --> 00:29:31,080
Speaker 4: their hormones. We need to also have a real wake

543
00:29:31,120 --> 00:29:33,480
Speaker 4: up call here because if we have a Republican president

544
00:29:33,520 --> 00:29:36,760
Speaker 4: in twenty twenty four and the Senate flips, nobody's getting

545
00:29:36,760 --> 00:29:39,320
Speaker 4: their hormones and nobody's getting abortion.

546
00:29:39,600 --> 00:29:41,640
Speaker 1: Johnald Trump in his recent speech that we need to

547
00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:44,920
Speaker 1: ban gender or firming care for everybody. This is what

548
00:29:45,080 --> 00:29:47,760
Speaker 1: he's running on, right and we're seeing it happen on

549
00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:51,160
Speaker 1: a state level. And then oh, I need Estreme for

550
00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:54,640
Speaker 1: the rest of my life. And we have a presidential

551
00:29:54,680 --> 00:29:57,520
Speaker 1: candidate who could win again saying that we need to

552
00:29:57,600 --> 00:30:01,640
Speaker 1: ban on a national level gender affirming care for everybody.

553
00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:04,719
Speaker 3: And I think one of the things that's really important

554
00:30:04,760 --> 00:30:07,480
Speaker 3: is that what is gender affirming care? Chase really talked

555
00:30:07,480 --> 00:30:10,240
Speaker 3: about that saw him do a really wonderful speech and

556
00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:13,480
Speaker 3: interview about that that since people get received gender firming

557
00:30:13,520 --> 00:30:17,040
Speaker 3: care too, And in that context, gender firming care for

558
00:30:17,120 --> 00:30:20,360
Speaker 3: me is now that I, regardless of how someone who's

559
00:30:20,680 --> 00:30:23,640
Speaker 3: may agree or disagree with my body, I have breasts.

560
00:30:23,880 --> 00:30:28,520
Speaker 3: It's important for me to have breast care and examine myself.

561
00:30:28,520 --> 00:30:30,160
Speaker 3: And if I find a lump or something and I

562
00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:32,720
Speaker 3: go to have some type of procedure or something with

563
00:30:32,760 --> 00:30:35,959
Speaker 3: my doctor, that's also gender affirming care as a trans woman.

564
00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:39,640
Speaker 3: And so what is gender affirming care because that spills

565
00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:43,840
Speaker 3: beyond just getting hormones and yeah, therapy, that spills beyond

566
00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:46,160
Speaker 3: just surgical things, which a lot of people are really

567
00:30:46,160 --> 00:30:48,479
Speaker 3: limited in their idea of thinking that that's what it

568
00:30:48,520 --> 00:30:50,440
Speaker 3: is to me. Gender firming care is any type of

569
00:30:50,520 --> 00:30:51,400
Speaker 3: health care that we receive.

570
00:30:51,680 --> 00:30:53,280
Speaker 1: This is why we have to move away from the

571
00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:56,680
Speaker 1: surgery narrative because that still becomes a thing that people

572
00:30:56,720 --> 00:30:59,640
Speaker 1: focus on that's all they can think about and are

573
00:30:59,680 --> 00:31:03,920
Speaker 1: exit existence is about more than that. Having our gender

574
00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:08,120
Speaker 1: affirmed can just be about like having a healthcare professional

575
00:31:08,120 --> 00:31:12,200
Speaker 1: affirm our pronouns, having like a teacher, you know, affirm

576
00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:16,960
Speaker 1: our pronouns. That's gender affirming care right to acknowledge that

577
00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:20,800
Speaker 1: we exist in the genders that we identify as.

578
00:31:21,120 --> 00:31:23,000
Speaker 4: And they're trying to take that away, right Like, there's

579
00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:25,280
Speaker 4: all sorts of bills across the country that are trying

580
00:31:25,320 --> 00:31:29,000
Speaker 4: to allow and in some cases require teachers to use

581
00:31:29,040 --> 00:31:31,920
Speaker 4: the wrong pronouns for students. And I think that there

582
00:31:32,000 --> 00:31:35,200
Speaker 4: is a way where people just aren't pausing to grasp

583
00:31:35,240 --> 00:31:37,320
Speaker 4: what this actually means. And I was talking to a

584
00:31:37,320 --> 00:31:40,840
Speaker 4: colleague who's also trans, who was talking about how at

585
00:31:40,840 --> 00:31:43,280
Speaker 4: the end of the day, like sometimes it's that one

586
00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:46,720
Speaker 4: teacher who saw you in one way, who got you

587
00:31:47,240 --> 00:31:50,440
Speaker 4: through high school speak, and we're trying to take those

588
00:31:50,520 --> 00:31:53,400
Speaker 4: pathways away. We're taking away sports, We're taking away the

589
00:31:53,480 --> 00:31:56,600
Speaker 4: coaches who might mentor people. We're taking away the teachers

590
00:31:56,640 --> 00:31:58,880
Speaker 4: who might care for you if your parents don't, even

591
00:31:58,880 --> 00:32:01,160
Speaker 4: if your parents do, Like I've been saying this a

592
00:32:01,160 --> 00:32:04,680
Speaker 4: lot too as a parent, parental rights doesn't mean having

593
00:32:04,760 --> 00:32:07,480
Speaker 4: everyone tell you everything about your kid. I want my

594
00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:11,560
Speaker 4: child to have outlets to explore themselves and not fear

595
00:32:11,560 --> 00:32:13,160
Speaker 4: that I'm going to be told. I know they know

596
00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:14,959
Speaker 4: that they're loved, but sometimes you don't want to talk

597
00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:17,480
Speaker 4: to your parents. That's healthy, And I don't want schools

598
00:32:17,520 --> 00:32:19,520
Speaker 4: just closing everything that my child says, and the same

599
00:32:19,560 --> 00:32:21,800
Speaker 4: way I would't my my child's therapist doing that. This

600
00:32:21,920 --> 00:32:25,400
Speaker 4: is not a healthy way to support child and adolescent

601
00:32:25,480 --> 00:32:29,360
Speaker 4: development to mandate that everything be reported to parents when

602
00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:32,120
Speaker 4: exploration is a beautiful part of adolescence and we need

603
00:32:32,160 --> 00:32:33,040
Speaker 4: those outlets and.

604
00:32:33,120 --> 00:32:34,640
Speaker 5: The government is cutting them off.

605
00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:37,680
Speaker 4: And to go back, le learn to your point about

606
00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:40,440
Speaker 4: us as trans adults who are just imagining what does

607
00:32:40,440 --> 00:32:42,800
Speaker 4: a future look like without our health care? Says people

608
00:32:42,840 --> 00:32:45,000
Speaker 4: are the number one consumers of gender affirming health care,

609
00:32:45,040 --> 00:32:47,760
Speaker 4: full stop, period. It's just that trans people's gender affirming

610
00:32:47,760 --> 00:32:49,840
Speaker 4: health care gets banned. But I was sitting in the

611
00:32:49,840 --> 00:32:51,400
Speaker 4: bathroom the other day and I just sort of I'm

612
00:32:51,440 --> 00:32:54,000
Speaker 4: deeply compartmentalized doing this work, and I was just sort

613
00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:56,800
Speaker 4: of looking at myself and trying to sort of come

614
00:32:56,840 --> 00:33:00,320
Speaker 4: into my body and thinking, what would it mean to

615
00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:02,000
Speaker 4: take all of the things away.

616
00:33:02,440 --> 00:33:04,440
Speaker 5: I wouldn't be able to do any of the things

617
00:33:04,480 --> 00:33:06,640
Speaker 5: that I do without the care that I've received.

618
00:33:07,040 --> 00:33:09,000
Speaker 4: And I want the people who love me in one

619
00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:11,400
Speaker 4: way or another to recognize that, like, this is.

620
00:33:11,320 --> 00:33:12,000
Speaker 5: Who we are.

621
00:33:12,600 --> 00:33:16,840
Speaker 1: I would not be alive if I didn't go to

622
00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:20,719
Speaker 1: doctor Rish's office nineteen ninety eight from my first hormone

623
00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:22,800
Speaker 1: show in the beginning of my medical transition, I would

624
00:33:22,840 --> 00:33:26,000
Speaker 1: not be alive. I would have killed myself because I

625
00:33:26,040 --> 00:33:31,920
Speaker 1: couldn't live a lie anymore. I couldn't live in a

626
00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:35,560
Speaker 1: way that wasn't consistent with who I was anymore. Wouldn't

627
00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:38,080
Speaker 1: I wouldn't be here. And I think that at the

628
00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:41,760
Speaker 1: end of the day, this is the project. It is genocide.

629
00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:57,800
Speaker 1: It is an attempted genocide. We'll be right back without

630
00:33:57,800 --> 00:34:03,000
Speaker 1: further ado. Everything that is being broadcast in this legislation

631
00:34:03,080 --> 00:34:05,320
Speaker 1: is that we do not want trans people to exist.

632
00:34:05,480 --> 00:34:09,080
Speaker 1: We want to erase them. I'm not comfortable whatever. For

633
00:34:09,160 --> 00:34:12,239
Speaker 1: whatever reason, they don't want us to exist anymore, and

634
00:34:12,280 --> 00:34:16,200
Speaker 1: they're doing everything they can in a really coordinated way

635
00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:18,800
Speaker 1: to make us not exist. And so in the face

636
00:34:18,840 --> 00:34:21,560
Speaker 1: of that, what do we do? What do you guys?

637
00:34:21,600 --> 00:34:25,120
Speaker 1: Do you know when you need to just feel good

638
00:34:25,160 --> 00:34:28,840
Speaker 1: and affirmed and like just feel your joy. What is

639
00:34:28,840 --> 00:34:29,919
Speaker 1: bringing your joy right now?

640
00:34:30,400 --> 00:34:33,120
Speaker 2: I think one of the things that is at least

641
00:34:33,560 --> 00:34:35,680
Speaker 2: provides me a little bit of solace in the face

642
00:34:35,680 --> 00:34:38,640
Speaker 2: of all of this development that's been happening. But I

643
00:34:38,640 --> 00:34:40,080
Speaker 2: would like to think that the hearts and minds that

644
00:34:40,160 --> 00:34:43,080
Speaker 2: have been changed enough to see us, enough to share

645
00:34:43,160 --> 00:34:45,960
Speaker 2: space with us and include us. I hope that that's

646
00:34:46,120 --> 00:34:49,520
Speaker 2: going to be everlasting. But you know, like just living

647
00:34:49,880 --> 00:34:52,160
Speaker 2: every day in my life and having the people around

648
00:34:52,160 --> 00:34:54,120
Speaker 2: me that I love, like people that are your support

649
00:34:54,160 --> 00:34:57,880
Speaker 2: circle of earn and being able to create music or

650
00:34:58,200 --> 00:35:00,640
Speaker 2: you know, speak to people who follow me and resonate

651
00:35:00,680 --> 00:35:03,480
Speaker 2: with my story or some of the things that I've

652
00:35:03,880 --> 00:35:06,879
Speaker 2: viewed as personal accomplishments, you know, like I was able

653
00:35:06,920 --> 00:35:09,680
Speaker 2: to perform on Broadway, which might seem like something that's

654
00:35:09,760 --> 00:35:10,400
Speaker 2: very elite.

655
00:35:10,520 --> 00:35:12,600
Speaker 3: Yes, but I went to school and paid a.

656
00:35:12,560 --> 00:35:16,200
Speaker 2: Lot of money for a degree in musical theater performance

657
00:35:16,520 --> 00:35:18,960
Speaker 2: way before I ever thought there'd be a reality that

658
00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:20,400
Speaker 2: a trans person would ever be able to be on

659
00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:22,600
Speaker 2: Broadway because there weren't any roles written for trans people.

660
00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:26,040
Speaker 2: My professors told me so, and so being able to

661
00:35:26,080 --> 00:35:28,239
Speaker 2: fulfill that for myself, and then being able to see

662
00:35:28,280 --> 00:35:30,840
Speaker 2: the people at the stage door who were touched and

663
00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:33,799
Speaker 2: resonated by those things. Those types of things really do

664
00:35:33,880 --> 00:35:36,960
Speaker 2: bring me joy, and they can happen even at the

665
00:35:36,960 --> 00:35:41,200
Speaker 2: moment where some terrible governor assigning some terrible bill into law.

666
00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:45,799
Speaker 1: And that's where allies are so crucially important. The ones

667
00:35:45,800 --> 00:35:47,319
Speaker 1: who are going to give us jobs, the ones who

668
00:35:47,360 --> 00:35:49,080
Speaker 1: are going to hire us, the ones who are going

669
00:35:49,120 --> 00:35:50,719
Speaker 1: to stand up for us and fight for us. It

670
00:35:50,840 --> 00:35:53,560
Speaker 1: becomes crucially important. You wouldn't have been on Broadway fit

671
00:35:53,600 --> 00:35:55,640
Speaker 1: more for a trans ally chase.

672
00:35:56,400 --> 00:35:57,720
Speaker 5: For me, it's two things.

673
00:35:57,920 --> 00:36:00,520
Speaker 4: One is that I just I similarly am like I'm

674
00:36:00,600 --> 00:36:02,160
Speaker 4: just gonna have fun at the end of the day,

675
00:36:02,400 --> 00:36:05,879
Speaker 4: Like I'm gonna find ways to decompress, like whether it's

676
00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:09,319
Speaker 4: peppermint and I going to diner food and just you know,

677
00:36:09,440 --> 00:36:11,400
Speaker 4: talking shit or whatever it is that we do. And

678
00:36:11,440 --> 00:36:13,719
Speaker 4: I'm like, I will travel all over the city. I

679
00:36:14,200 --> 00:36:16,200
Speaker 4: to go have a mule and sit and.

680
00:36:16,160 --> 00:36:17,719
Speaker 3: Just be be how we want to be.

681
00:36:18,160 --> 00:36:20,719
Speaker 4: And I do think for me, being in space with

682
00:36:20,760 --> 00:36:22,280
Speaker 4: trans people is essential.

683
00:36:22,760 --> 00:36:24,200
Speaker 5: I need that.

684
00:36:24,480 --> 00:36:26,359
Speaker 4: And I want to say another point about this, which

685
00:36:26,400 --> 00:36:29,480
Speaker 4: is deeply troubling is they'll use our solidarity with and

686
00:36:29,560 --> 00:36:32,520
Speaker 4: love for each other as evidence that we're like a contagion,

687
00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:35,440
Speaker 4: and it's like, no, we just love each other. The

688
00:36:35,480 --> 00:36:37,560
Speaker 4: policing that happens, it's like, oh, there must be sex

689
00:36:37,600 --> 00:36:40,360
Speaker 4: workers because they're standing together. It's like they try to

690
00:36:40,400 --> 00:36:43,920
Speaker 4: diminish our ability to connect with each other. But it's like, no, never,

691
00:36:44,239 --> 00:36:46,800
Speaker 4: That'll always be such a source of joy and comfort

692
00:36:46,840 --> 00:36:49,920
Speaker 4: for me. I will never not in these moments just

693
00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:52,799
Speaker 4: congregate with trans people because I think the insight that

694
00:36:52,840 --> 00:36:55,279
Speaker 4: we have and the self awareness that we have and

695
00:36:55,280 --> 00:36:58,600
Speaker 4: the fortitude that we have is just I prefer it.

696
00:36:58,880 --> 00:37:01,520
Speaker 5: And the other reality is that, you know, part.

697
00:37:01,320 --> 00:37:03,960
Speaker 4: Of the narrative is that we're miserable, and so you

698
00:37:04,080 --> 00:37:07,880
Speaker 4: better believe that I am gonna show up, I am funny,

699
00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:09,719
Speaker 4: I am fun and I'm going.

700
00:37:09,719 --> 00:37:10,880
Speaker 5: To bring that energy.

701
00:37:11,000 --> 00:37:13,480
Speaker 4: Like it's disarming to people because they have this idea

702
00:37:13,520 --> 00:37:16,239
Speaker 4: of trans people like we're walking around like all just

703
00:37:16,360 --> 00:37:19,320
Speaker 4: sad all the time, which would be a healthy reaction

704
00:37:19,400 --> 00:37:21,760
Speaker 4: to the world we're living in. But we're also really fun.

705
00:37:22,560 --> 00:37:24,440
Speaker 1: Recently, I was in LA and there was an episode

706
00:37:24,480 --> 00:37:28,080
Speaker 1: of Quantum Leap that was directed by Shaquina and ritten

707
00:37:28,120 --> 00:37:30,000
Speaker 1: I believe by Shakin as well, that focused on a

708
00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:33,520
Speaker 1: trans story. And there was a bar in La where

709
00:37:33,560 --> 00:37:35,960
Speaker 1: they had a screening of it that was filled with

710
00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:38,800
Speaker 1: trans people, and it just it had been a minute

711
00:37:38,840 --> 00:37:41,280
Speaker 1: since I was just in a room with trans folks

712
00:37:41,880 --> 00:37:45,400
Speaker 1: watching an episode of television of network television that focused

713
00:37:45,440 --> 00:37:50,160
Speaker 1: on a trans story, and I got my full entire life.

714
00:37:50,280 --> 00:37:53,600
Speaker 1: It was everything it was like. So it just filled

715
00:37:53,640 --> 00:37:57,200
Speaker 1: me up being surrounded by my people and it was

716
00:37:57,320 --> 00:38:02,520
Speaker 1: just so empowering and beauty full and a huge part

717
00:38:02,520 --> 00:38:04,840
Speaker 1: of what makes me who I am. It's this experience.

718
00:38:05,040 --> 00:38:07,160
Speaker 1: It's also being black, It's also being an artist. It's

719
00:38:07,200 --> 00:38:09,720
Speaker 1: also being from the South. It's like so many different things.

720
00:38:10,080 --> 00:38:12,959
Speaker 1: And so, yeah, we're not all sad all the time.

721
00:38:12,960 --> 00:38:16,359
Speaker 1: We've had moments, right, We've all had moments and we're

722
00:38:16,360 --> 00:38:18,480
Speaker 1: going to have moments again. But that's what it means

723
00:38:18,480 --> 00:38:25,120
Speaker 1: to be human. Yeah, we're hilarious with us. So can

724
00:38:25,200 --> 00:38:29,120
Speaker 1: we talk about some concrete strategies that our allies can

725
00:38:29,160 --> 00:38:34,920
Speaker 1: take away today? People who really are well intentioned and

726
00:38:35,080 --> 00:38:37,920
Speaker 1: want to help and want to be a part of this,

727
00:38:38,320 --> 00:38:41,040
Speaker 1: what can they take away concretely that they can do

728
00:38:41,560 --> 00:38:43,359
Speaker 1: to help us in this in this spite for our

729
00:38:43,360 --> 00:38:44,200
Speaker 1: civil rights.

730
00:38:44,560 --> 00:38:46,080
Speaker 2: I think there's two things that people can do. I

731
00:38:46,080 --> 00:38:49,399
Speaker 2: think number one, most people are engaged in some way

732
00:38:49,560 --> 00:38:52,520
Speaker 2: in social media, which is where this conversation is taking place,

733
00:38:52,560 --> 00:38:54,440
Speaker 2: like we've talked about, and so I do think it's important,

734
00:38:54,480 --> 00:38:57,800
Speaker 2: just like we were encouraging our allies to do during

735
00:38:57,960 --> 00:38:59,960
Speaker 2: twenty twenty in the conversations that we were having during,

736
00:39:00,760 --> 00:39:04,680
Speaker 2: to fill your timeline with queer content creators and people

737
00:39:04,760 --> 00:39:08,360
Speaker 2: who are getting straight from the source, not just subjects,

738
00:39:08,360 --> 00:39:11,480
Speaker 2: but also the creators and the individuals who do have

739
00:39:11,640 --> 00:39:15,440
Speaker 2: platforms and you know, putting out content. Seek them out

740
00:39:15,640 --> 00:39:18,560
Speaker 2: so you can get more of this conversation and more

741
00:39:18,600 --> 00:39:20,520
Speaker 2: of a sense of who these people are. And the

742
00:39:20,560 --> 00:39:23,160
Speaker 2: second thing that I think people can do is, whatever

743
00:39:23,239 --> 00:39:26,640
Speaker 2: issues are happening in your very life that are important

744
00:39:26,719 --> 00:39:29,919
Speaker 2: to you, let's put an intersectional lens on that. Let's

745
00:39:29,960 --> 00:39:33,040
Speaker 2: see if you're getting fired from your job. Let's find

746
00:39:33,360 --> 00:39:36,320
Speaker 2: resources and sources that talk about how a black person

747
00:39:36,360 --> 00:39:38,400
Speaker 2: would deal with the same situation, or how a trans

748
00:39:38,440 --> 00:39:41,399
Speaker 2: person who's of Asian descent would deal with this sort

749
00:39:41,400 --> 00:39:44,600
Speaker 2: of thing, And so that you can bring those groups

750
00:39:44,760 --> 00:39:48,480
Speaker 2: closer into the issues that you care about in your life.

751
00:39:48,560 --> 00:39:52,200
Speaker 2: I think that's two things that people can do like today, Yeah,

752
00:39:52,400 --> 00:39:53,000
Speaker 2: just I mean.

753
00:39:52,920 --> 00:39:55,040
Speaker 4: I try to have this conversation a lot with people,

754
00:39:55,120 --> 00:39:57,360
Speaker 4: and I think one thing is that people can feel

755
00:39:57,400 --> 00:40:00,120
Speaker 4: really overwhelmed by the volume of things coming at them

756
00:40:00,120 --> 00:40:02,880
Speaker 4: and the bigness of what it feels like, and so

757
00:40:02,960 --> 00:40:05,080
Speaker 4: I like to divide it into parts. One is sort

758
00:40:05,120 --> 00:40:07,400
Speaker 4: of the daily life piece. And this is one of

759
00:40:07,400 --> 00:40:10,400
Speaker 4: the reasons why, and we talked about this so much

760
00:40:10,520 --> 00:40:13,239
Speaker 4: anti trans legislation is able to move is because we've

761
00:40:13,239 --> 00:40:16,080
Speaker 4: been able to allow for the demonization of trans people

762
00:40:16,160 --> 00:40:18,520
Speaker 4: to occur on every single level. So part of the

763
00:40:18,600 --> 00:40:21,600
Speaker 4: activation that needs to happen is people disrupting that demonization

764
00:40:21,680 --> 00:40:24,279
Speaker 4: on every level, at your kitchen table, when you're at

765
00:40:24,280 --> 00:40:26,440
Speaker 4: the school where your kids go to school, when you're

766
00:40:26,440 --> 00:40:28,839
Speaker 4: in line at the grocery store. This is permeating the

767
00:40:29,239 --> 00:40:32,400
Speaker 4: ether so much that people just gratuitously will say like, well,

768
00:40:32,440 --> 00:40:34,279
Speaker 4: I don't know about those trans kids and sports, and

769
00:40:34,360 --> 00:40:36,760
Speaker 4: I don't know about kids making these medical decisions.

770
00:40:36,760 --> 00:40:37,399
Speaker 5: It will come up.

771
00:40:37,560 --> 00:40:40,560
Speaker 4: So be an agent of disruption. So that is number one.

772
00:40:40,719 --> 00:40:42,280
Speaker 4: Change the way in which we're talking.

773
00:40:42,040 --> 00:40:44,240
Speaker 5: About number two. And this is what echoes.

774
00:40:44,280 --> 00:40:47,560
Speaker 4: Also what Peppermin said is we have to engage on

775
00:40:47,600 --> 00:40:49,880
Speaker 4: every level of government. This is about school boards, this

776
00:40:49,960 --> 00:40:52,960
Speaker 4: is about DA elections, this is about state and local government,

777
00:40:53,000 --> 00:40:54,840
Speaker 4: this is about Congress and the president.

778
00:40:54,880 --> 00:40:55,719
Speaker 5: It's about all of it.

779
00:40:56,000 --> 00:40:59,719
Speaker 4: And so wherever you feel empowered, take action there, pay

780
00:40:59,760 --> 00:41:01,960
Speaker 4: at time, and what's happening in your community. There are

781
00:41:02,000 --> 00:41:05,280
Speaker 4: three hundred anti trans bills pending right now. That's happening

782
00:41:05,280 --> 00:41:07,960
Speaker 4: in the overwhelming majority of states, including states that are

783
00:41:07,960 --> 00:41:11,600
Speaker 4: considered progressive. So get involved, get engaged. And you can

784
00:41:11,640 --> 00:41:14,480
Speaker 4: do that as well by donating to translad organizations. And

785
00:41:14,480 --> 00:41:16,799
Speaker 4: I talk about trans Justice Funding Project because a lot

786
00:41:16,800 --> 00:41:19,920
Speaker 4: of people don't know a translate organization, but you can

787
00:41:19,960 --> 00:41:22,719
Speaker 4: donate to TRANSSICE funding projects and they will invest in

788
00:41:22,760 --> 00:41:25,919
Speaker 4: the translated organizations around the country, and that does make

789
00:41:25,960 --> 00:41:27,680
Speaker 4: a difference. So there's the way in which we can

790
00:41:27,760 --> 00:41:31,000
Speaker 4: just have these discursive and sort of social engagement changes,

791
00:41:31,239 --> 00:41:35,000
Speaker 4: political changes, and then material distribution changes where you're investing

792
00:41:35,000 --> 00:41:35,920
Speaker 4: in trans leadership.

793
00:41:36,440 --> 00:41:39,160
Speaker 1: And I think it's important with organizations like trans Justice

794
00:41:39,200 --> 00:41:43,080
Speaker 1: Funding Project, they're funding organizations that are helping to get

795
00:41:43,120 --> 00:41:48,160
Speaker 1: resources on the ground to trans folks and their families

796
00:41:48,200 --> 00:41:51,360
Speaker 1: who need it, who are relocating or do need access

797
00:41:51,520 --> 00:41:55,759
Speaker 1: in various ways. So that is a really tangible, important

798
00:41:55,800 --> 00:41:59,400
Speaker 1: thing for people to do. So as we kind of

799
00:41:59,440 --> 00:42:04,400
Speaker 1: conclude this discussion, right, any final thoughts.

800
00:42:04,640 --> 00:42:08,040
Speaker 4: My final thought is this that we've been having a

801
00:42:08,120 --> 00:42:11,040
Speaker 4: lot of harder conversations. We're looking into a very hard

802
00:42:11,239 --> 00:42:13,880
Speaker 4: future in terms of the legal and policy landscape. But

803
00:42:13,920 --> 00:42:17,320
Speaker 4: to Pepperman's point, the people who love us, the changes

804
00:42:17,360 --> 00:42:20,840
Speaker 4: that we've made, that isn't going away. And so as

805
00:42:20,880 --> 00:42:24,520
Speaker 4: we move forward into this time, we are going to

806
00:42:24,600 --> 00:42:26,879
Speaker 4: have to just show the fuck up for each other.

807
00:42:27,320 --> 00:42:30,719
Speaker 4: And that means in spaces where we can decompress, where

808
00:42:30,719 --> 00:42:33,360
Speaker 4: we can care for each other, and that means really

809
00:42:33,640 --> 00:42:38,120
Speaker 4: finding pathways of solidarity that are meaningful and full and

810
00:42:38,200 --> 00:42:42,439
Speaker 4: like I am ready to throw down for everyone, our

811
00:42:42,640 --> 00:42:45,400
Speaker 4: freedom is bound up together and I believe that so

812
00:42:45,560 --> 00:42:47,960
Speaker 4: fully and completely. In this next period of time, this

813
00:42:48,040 --> 00:42:50,480
Speaker 4: next election cycle is going to be brutal, and so

814
00:42:50,520 --> 00:42:53,640
Speaker 4: that means finding those spaces to love on each other,

815
00:42:53,800 --> 00:42:57,920
Speaker 4: to scheme together to resist the narratives about us, and

816
00:42:58,000 --> 00:43:01,560
Speaker 4: also really try to help move more people into a

817
00:43:01,600 --> 00:43:04,400
Speaker 4: space of really seeing us in our fullness, because we

818
00:43:04,480 --> 00:43:08,680
Speaker 4: need people to go out and marshal in that disruption

819
00:43:08,840 --> 00:43:11,800
Speaker 4: of the very insidious narrative about our lives and our bodies.

820
00:43:14,520 --> 00:43:18,520
Speaker 2: I'd like to spend more time trying to get people

821
00:43:18,560 --> 00:43:21,840
Speaker 2: out of the silos that we're in the activism space,

822
00:43:22,360 --> 00:43:25,560
Speaker 2: so that we can have a more intersectional view and

823
00:43:25,640 --> 00:43:29,360
Speaker 2: then of course fight because it is going to be

824
00:43:29,520 --> 00:43:33,440
Speaker 2: divide and conquer, as you said, and there's no time

825
00:43:33,600 --> 00:43:37,840
Speaker 2: like right before a presidential election to get people politically involved. Granted,

826
00:43:37,960 --> 00:43:40,719
Speaker 2: as Chase said, there's so many things happening, there's so

827
00:43:40,719 --> 00:43:43,799
Speaker 2: many opportunities to sort of reflect on how bad things

828
00:43:43,840 --> 00:43:46,440
Speaker 2: can be. But going up into the next year or

829
00:43:46,440 --> 00:43:49,600
Speaker 2: two before twenty twenty four, it also is an opportunity

830
00:43:49,680 --> 00:43:52,160
Speaker 2: to get people on board and want to have these conversations.

831
00:43:52,160 --> 00:43:55,759
Speaker 2: And I'm hopeful that with the smaller portion of the

832
00:43:55,920 --> 00:43:58,759
Speaker 2: very small portion of trans people who are out there

833
00:43:58,800 --> 00:44:02,480
Speaker 2: having these conversations, I'm very hopeful that we can get

834
00:44:02,560 --> 00:44:05,240
Speaker 2: not only our allies on board, but also getting them

835
00:44:05,280 --> 00:44:08,480
Speaker 2: to see that if they spend more a few minutes

836
00:44:08,560 --> 00:44:11,160
Speaker 2: or a certain amount of time on this transgender piece,

837
00:44:11,360 --> 00:44:14,160
Speaker 2: it will eventually spill over into the feminism piece, and

838
00:44:14,239 --> 00:44:16,800
Speaker 2: it'll eventually spill over into the race piece, and it'll

839
00:44:16,880 --> 00:44:19,200
Speaker 2: spill over into the class piece because they are all

840
00:44:19,280 --> 00:44:22,920
Speaker 2: so deeply connected. I'm encouraged personally by that, in addition

841
00:44:23,000 --> 00:44:25,680
Speaker 2: to going to the diner with y'all and having some food.

842
00:44:26,440 --> 00:44:28,879
Speaker 1: Now, for me, it's a few things I've just I'm

843
00:44:28,920 --> 00:44:32,799
Speaker 1: thinking about when these conversations are being had, that we

844
00:44:32,840 --> 00:44:35,720
Speaker 1: need to bring on more trans people. It's really interesting

845
00:44:35,719 --> 00:44:37,200
Speaker 1: because I've been in this game for a minute. I

846
00:44:37,200 --> 00:44:40,120
Speaker 1: remember back in the day when people would talk about

847
00:44:40,120 --> 00:44:42,200
Speaker 1: trans issues and I would go on CNN or I

848
00:44:42,200 --> 00:44:44,279
Speaker 1: would go on MSNBC, and they would like be like,

849
00:44:44,400 --> 00:44:46,560
Speaker 1: we need to have a transperson talk about this. Now

850
00:44:46,600 --> 00:44:51,120
Speaker 1: people feel very comfortable like having conversations about trans issues

851
00:44:51,200 --> 00:44:54,319
Speaker 1: without a transperson in sight. It blows my mind. And

852
00:44:54,320 --> 00:44:56,480
Speaker 1: I don't think it's about just any old transperson. I

853
00:44:56,480 --> 00:44:58,600
Speaker 1: think it is about having trans people who have a

854
00:44:58,640 --> 00:45:01,120
Speaker 1: depth of knowledge. He does feel e leadists, but a

855
00:45:01,160 --> 00:45:04,000
Speaker 1: transperson who's informed and has a sense of the politics

856
00:45:04,000 --> 00:45:08,319
Speaker 1: in the community and a historical perspective, et cetera. So

857
00:45:08,360 --> 00:45:10,600
Speaker 1: I think, like I would love to just invite the

858
00:45:10,600 --> 00:45:14,359
Speaker 1: media to listen to trans people more, to invite more

859
00:45:14,400 --> 00:45:17,600
Speaker 1: trans people on have these conversations with us and not

860
00:45:17,760 --> 00:45:22,400
Speaker 1: just about us, I think to being aware of what

861
00:45:22,520 --> 00:45:27,840
Speaker 1: happens in state legislators and state elections, local elections, school boards.

862
00:45:27,920 --> 00:45:31,359
Speaker 1: A lot of what's happening is happening with school boards,

863
00:45:31,400 --> 00:45:34,160
Speaker 1: with book banning and the relationship between books being banned

864
00:45:34,239 --> 00:45:37,000
Speaker 1: on critical rates theory. You know, I don't like saying

865
00:45:37,000 --> 00:45:40,120
Speaker 1: his name, Mister Chris Brusso who came up with putting

866
00:45:40,160 --> 00:45:43,799
Speaker 1: critical race theory is like the catch all. He literally said,

867
00:45:43,840 --> 00:45:46,319
Speaker 1: we'll make anything that has to do with race and

868
00:45:46,440 --> 00:45:48,960
Speaker 1: racial equality, we'll call it critical race theory and make

869
00:45:49,000 --> 00:45:51,480
Speaker 1: it like the Boogeyman. He's the same person who's like,

870
00:45:51,520 --> 00:45:53,640
Speaker 1: now we're going to do this with trans issues, that

871
00:45:53,920 --> 00:45:57,319
Speaker 1: project that he's engaged in, that like the right wing

872
00:45:57,400 --> 00:45:59,800
Speaker 1: is engaged in. It's happening and at school boards, happening

873
00:45:59,800 --> 00:46:01,759
Speaker 1: all local level, So we have to be mindful of

874
00:46:01,760 --> 00:46:05,840
Speaker 1: that and that again, it's all connected. It really is

875
00:46:05,840 --> 00:46:09,279
Speaker 1: all connected. So it's like rights can be taken away.

876
00:46:09,360 --> 00:46:11,080
Speaker 1: Just because you have your rights now does not mean

877
00:46:11,080 --> 00:46:13,360
Speaker 1: you're going to have your rights tomorrow. So we really

878
00:46:13,400 --> 00:46:15,120
Speaker 1: are all in this together. And I think the people

879
00:46:15,120 --> 00:46:19,240
Speaker 1: who are most sort of anti trans are the loudest

880
00:46:19,280 --> 00:46:22,920
Speaker 1: on the Internet, and it gets clicks and it gets viewsed.

881
00:46:22,920 --> 00:46:26,200
Speaker 1: But I think when you talk to average Americans, they're

882
00:46:26,239 --> 00:46:30,759
Speaker 1: not like that pressed about trands stuff, right. I think

883
00:46:30,800 --> 00:46:36,040
Speaker 1: it's like politicians, pundits and a very small group of

884
00:46:36,080 --> 00:46:38,440
Speaker 1: people on the internet. So like, if we can find

885
00:46:38,520 --> 00:46:43,200
Speaker 1: ways to have conversations with people who might lean in

886
00:46:43,239 --> 00:46:46,960
Speaker 1: a different political direction, and it's hard and not demonize

887
00:46:47,000 --> 00:46:50,239
Speaker 1: those people. The representatives, the pundits, yeah, I think we

888
00:46:50,280 --> 00:46:52,680
Speaker 1: can say things about them, but the people. I think

889
00:46:52,680 --> 00:46:54,839
Speaker 1: that people can be reached if we can get to them.

890
00:46:55,000 --> 00:46:57,719
Speaker 1: I think a huge part of it is the conversation.

891
00:46:58,239 --> 00:47:01,680
Speaker 1: It can't be acceptable anymore to talk about things that

892
00:47:01,719 --> 00:47:04,440
Speaker 1: are really none of our business. If you are not trans,

893
00:47:04,520 --> 00:47:06,440
Speaker 1: if you're not the parent of a trans person or

894
00:47:06,480 --> 00:47:09,600
Speaker 1: a medical professional, it's none of your business. And the

895
00:47:09,760 --> 00:47:12,920
Speaker 1: line I think needs to be the government should not

896
00:47:13,000 --> 00:47:18,120
Speaker 1: be involved in the healthcare decisions of anybody, period, point blank.

897
00:47:18,480 --> 00:47:20,759
Speaker 1: It's not up for I've seen a lot of well

898
00:47:20,800 --> 00:47:23,840
Speaker 1: meeting people the age of when people should start this

899
00:47:24,040 --> 00:47:29,320
Speaker 1: whateverish No, not by politicians, medical professionals, yes, and medical

900
00:47:29,320 --> 00:47:31,239
Speaker 1: professionals have made a lot of decisions and done a

901
00:47:31,239 --> 00:47:34,279
Speaker 1: lot of research about that care. Let's leave it to them,

902
00:47:34,680 --> 00:47:38,920
Speaker 1: and let's not have the healthcare of trans people up

903
00:47:38,960 --> 00:47:42,080
Speaker 1: for debate. When we make it up for public debate,

904
00:47:42,360 --> 00:47:46,359
Speaker 1: we're debating the existence of trans people. So what I

905
00:47:46,400 --> 00:47:48,040
Speaker 1: believe the talking point should be is that it's none

906
00:47:48,080 --> 00:47:58,239
Speaker 1: of your business. I like to end every podcast with

907
00:47:58,320 --> 00:48:00,759
Speaker 1: the question, and we've been to talking about this the

908
00:48:00,800 --> 00:48:03,080
Speaker 1: whole time, and the question is what else is true?

909
00:48:03,320 --> 00:48:05,480
Speaker 1: What are the things that get us through? Even when

910
00:48:05,520 --> 00:48:08,400
Speaker 1: things are rough and hard, and they are right now

911
00:48:08,480 --> 00:48:11,080
Speaker 1: for trans people? What are the things that get you through?

912
00:48:11,080 --> 00:48:13,320
Speaker 1: And we've been talking about this day, maybe there's something

913
00:48:13,440 --> 00:48:16,680
Speaker 1: different that you haven't said, Peppermint for you today? What

914
00:48:16,760 --> 00:48:17,560
Speaker 1: else is true?

915
00:48:18,440 --> 00:48:22,680
Speaker 2: I've been able to work on some very artistically and

916
00:48:22,760 --> 00:48:26,839
Speaker 2: creatively fulfilling projects and things that make me feel great,

917
00:48:26,840 --> 00:48:29,040
Speaker 2: but then are also connected to some of these issues

918
00:48:29,080 --> 00:48:32,200
Speaker 2: that we're talking about, and I just feel so wonderful

919
00:48:32,280 --> 00:48:35,200
Speaker 2: to have been included. And I'm hopeful that I can

920
00:48:35,520 --> 00:48:38,239
Speaker 2: do my part to help keep a door open.

921
00:48:38,920 --> 00:48:41,080
Speaker 3: And bring everybody else through.

922
00:48:41,800 --> 00:48:45,200
Speaker 2: And so that's what's true, is that it's not just

923
00:48:45,400 --> 00:48:47,120
Speaker 2: us sitting around complaining about some bills.

924
00:48:47,160 --> 00:48:49,080
Speaker 3: The only reason that you might think.

925
00:48:49,000 --> 00:48:52,000
Speaker 2: As Chase said, that we're always miserable is because people

926
00:48:52,080 --> 00:48:55,000
Speaker 2: are constantly attacking us and we're constantly noticing it. It's

927
00:48:55,040 --> 00:48:57,000
Speaker 2: not like I've been upset every day when I woke up.

928
00:48:57,040 --> 00:48:58,800
Speaker 2: It's that every single time when I read the paper

929
00:48:58,880 --> 00:49:00,920
Speaker 2: every morning New York time, I'm putting out some other

930
00:49:00,960 --> 00:49:01,759
Speaker 2: story attacking me.

931
00:49:02,360 --> 00:49:03,400
Speaker 3: That's what's wrong.

932
00:49:04,200 --> 00:49:12,960
Speaker 2: That's what's true, Chase Darling, for you today.

933
00:49:12,640 --> 00:49:13,840
Speaker 1: What else is true?

934
00:49:14,080 --> 00:49:16,080
Speaker 5: Well, I mean to me, this is it.

935
00:49:16,120 --> 00:49:20,719
Speaker 4: Things can be, however demoralizing, there will always be for me.

936
00:49:20,920 --> 00:49:23,640
Speaker 4: And I feel so grateful for this, a moment that

937
00:49:23,800 --> 00:49:26,560
Speaker 4: reminds me how happy and lucky I feel to be alive.

938
00:49:26,680 --> 00:49:28,640
Speaker 4: And that is a blessing that I take with me.

939
00:49:28,680 --> 00:49:30,800
Speaker 4: And it might be just cuddling my cat or cuddling

940
00:49:30,840 --> 00:49:32,640
Speaker 4: my kid, or convening with you two.

941
00:49:33,120 --> 00:49:33,800
Speaker 5: What a gift.

942
00:49:34,000 --> 00:49:36,640
Speaker 4: And I am very, very very grateful to be here.

943
00:49:36,960 --> 00:49:39,200
Speaker 4: And that is true for me every single day. I

944
00:49:39,400 --> 00:49:44,080
Speaker 4: just am really committed to curating spaces of joy in

945
00:49:44,080 --> 00:49:46,680
Speaker 4: my life. And I'm forty now and I feel like,

946
00:49:47,280 --> 00:49:50,200
Speaker 4: never did I ever imagine that this type of future

947
00:49:50,200 --> 00:49:50,800
Speaker 4: for myself.

948
00:49:52,320 --> 00:49:54,440
Speaker 1: Oh, I'll join in. What else is true for me

949
00:49:54,480 --> 00:49:59,759
Speaker 1: today is love. I'm lucky enough to be like romantically,

950
00:50:00,080 --> 00:50:03,120
Speaker 1: deeply in love in a way that I've only dreamed about.

951
00:50:03,680 --> 00:50:08,359
Speaker 1: And I love you too, and I have friends who

952
00:50:08,440 --> 00:50:11,800
Speaker 1: I love with all my heart and all my soul,

953
00:50:12,040 --> 00:50:19,480
Speaker 1: and that love is healing and transformative. I think that

954
00:50:20,760 --> 00:50:25,640
Speaker 1: everybody out there, who's you know, using trans people as clickbait,

955
00:50:25,960 --> 00:50:29,400
Speaker 1: if you could just get some love in your life,

956
00:50:29,960 --> 00:50:31,960
Speaker 1: you know, justice is what love was like in public.

957
00:50:31,960 --> 00:50:34,640
Speaker 1: If we could just permeate that. I really believe in that.

958
00:50:35,080 --> 00:50:38,120
Speaker 1: What else is true for me is love, Honey, it's love.

959
00:50:42,840 --> 00:50:46,120
Speaker 1: Thank you so much, you two, we were all over

960
00:50:46,160 --> 00:50:50,160
Speaker 1: the place. I hope that everyone listening will have an

961
00:50:50,160 --> 00:50:52,640
Speaker 1: awareness of what's going on, but maybe leave with some

962
00:50:52,640 --> 00:50:56,399
Speaker 1: strategies about how we can kind of address and attack this.

963
00:50:56,960 --> 00:50:59,120
Speaker 1: And again, I want to remind transfers out there that

964
00:50:59,200 --> 00:51:02,880
Speaker 1: we've always found a way to get a hormone. We

965
00:51:03,000 --> 00:51:05,920
Speaker 1: always found away. You know, to get is to get

966
00:51:05,920 --> 00:51:11,040
Speaker 1: a surgery. Honey, We've found away, darling, look to the transcess.

967
00:51:11,200 --> 00:51:15,400
Speaker 1: Just honey. They cannot keep a girl or a boy,

968
00:51:15,680 --> 00:51:19,400
Speaker 1: or they cannot keep us away from our mones, honey,

969
00:51:19,480 --> 00:51:22,680
Speaker 1: and our procedures. Honey. Where there's a will, there's always

970
00:51:22,680 --> 00:51:25,640
Speaker 1: been a way. Okay, Can I get an amen up

971
00:51:25,640 --> 00:51:25,960
Speaker 1: in her?

972
00:51:26,480 --> 00:51:29,000
Speaker 3: Amen, honey, Now let the music play.

973
00:51:38,760 --> 00:51:42,560
Speaker 1: Love feels like the thing to me that is the

974
00:51:42,560 --> 00:51:45,920
Speaker 1: most true right now. And when I am in the

975
00:51:45,960 --> 00:51:49,319
Speaker 1: company of Chase and Peppermint, I feel that love. When

976
00:51:49,320 --> 00:51:52,640
Speaker 1: I'm in the company of my community, I feel that love,

977
00:51:52,920 --> 00:51:56,840
Speaker 1: and it is such a blessing in the face of

978
00:51:57,000 --> 00:52:01,920
Speaker 1: the horrific, the catastrophic, and these in so many ways

979
00:52:01,920 --> 00:52:05,799
Speaker 1: of catastrophic times for trans people. We have each other.

980
00:52:05,920 --> 00:52:10,239
Speaker 1: We have community, We have people who love us. And

981
00:52:10,280 --> 00:52:12,799
Speaker 1: if you don't have that community yet, we're out here.

982
00:52:12,920 --> 00:52:15,640
Speaker 1: We're waiting for you. We're waiting for you, so come

983
00:52:15,680 --> 00:52:18,400
Speaker 1: and find us. The Internet is a great tool to

984
00:52:18,480 --> 00:52:23,000
Speaker 1: find that community. We can get through this. We've gone

985
00:52:23,040 --> 00:52:27,560
Speaker 1: through difficult times before. Look to our ancestors and our

986
00:52:27,600 --> 00:52:33,239
Speaker 1: transistors for guidance. They are here, they are with us always.

987
00:52:33,600 --> 00:52:36,440
Speaker 1: That beautiful Maya Angelou quote, I come as one, but

988
00:52:36,480 --> 00:52:40,200
Speaker 1: I stand as ten thousand, the connection to an energy

989
00:52:40,239 --> 00:52:42,960
Speaker 1: that is bigger than us, to a space that is

990
00:52:43,040 --> 00:52:45,319
Speaker 1: bigger than us. And that's why I wanted to have

991
00:52:45,400 --> 00:52:49,239
Speaker 1: this conversation with Chase and Peppermint today. They represent from

992
00:52:49,280 --> 00:52:53,680
Speaker 1: me the connection to that history, to that present, to

993
00:52:53,800 --> 00:52:59,040
Speaker 1: that thing that is deep and true, that transcends all

994
00:52:59,120 --> 00:53:02,960
Speaker 1: of the misinformation should in propaganda and hatred towards our community.

995
00:53:03,520 --> 00:53:06,720
Speaker 1: Find that community. They're out there and they are waiting

996
00:53:07,040 --> 00:53:09,879
Speaker 1: for you, and they need you just as much as

997
00:53:09,960 --> 00:53:19,720
Speaker 1: you need them. This episode was recorded back in February

998
00:53:19,800 --> 00:53:22,440
Speaker 1: twenty twenty three. There were about three hundred and thirty

999
00:53:22,480 --> 00:53:25,719
Speaker 1: anti trans bills in process then. It is now early

1000
00:53:25,840 --> 00:53:28,360
Speaker 1: July and that number has grown to over five hundred

1001
00:53:28,400 --> 00:53:31,719
Speaker 1: and fifty bills in forty nine states. So far, eighty

1002
00:53:31,719 --> 00:53:34,880
Speaker 1: three have passed and one hundred and thirteen have been defeated.

1003
00:53:35,360 --> 00:53:38,640
Speaker 1: You can also track what's happening at trans Legislation dot

1004
00:53:38,640 --> 00:53:42,560
Speaker 1: com and as always, see our show notes for more information.

1005
00:53:47,760 --> 00:53:51,839
Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to The Laverne Cox Show. Please rate, review, subscribe,

1006
00:53:52,040 --> 00:53:54,480
Speaker 1: and share with everyone you know. You can find me

1007
00:53:54,560 --> 00:53:58,719
Speaker 1: on Instagram, Twitter, and TikTok at Laverne Cox and on

1008
00:53:58,719 --> 00:54:03,920
Speaker 1: Facebook at Laverne Coo for Real. Until next time, he

1009
00:54:04,800 --> 00:54:09,239
Speaker 1: stay in the love. The Laverne Clock Show is a

1010
00:54:09,239 --> 00:54:13,600
Speaker 1: production of Shondaland Audio in partnership with iHeartRadio. For more

1011
00:54:13,640 --> 00:54:18,319
Speaker 1: podcasts from Shondaland Audio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast,

1012
00:54:18,640 --> 00:54:20,640
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.