1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:02,880 Speaker 1: I'm Jason Flamm, host of Bronfel Conviction, and so far 2 00:00:02,960 --> 00:00:06,000 Speaker 1: we've brought you hundreds of stories of people stolen from 3 00:00:06,040 --> 00:00:09,200 Speaker 1: their lives and families for crimes they did not commit. 4 00:00:09,600 --> 00:00:11,840 Speaker 1: The sheer number of cases we've covered speaks to the 5 00:00:11,840 --> 00:00:14,680 Speaker 1: scale of the problem, but we've yet to even scratch 6 00:00:14,720 --> 00:00:18,360 Speaker 1: the surface. To amplify this message even louder, I've invited 7 00:00:18,400 --> 00:00:21,320 Speaker 1: new voices to host the show to create interviews of 8 00:00:21,360 --> 00:00:25,400 Speaker 1: the system affected by the system affected. This is one 9 00:00:25,400 --> 00:00:26,640 Speaker 1: of those interviews. 10 00:00:28,760 --> 00:00:32,159 Speaker 2: On January tenth, nineteen ninety eight, a sixty year old 11 00:00:32,240 --> 00:00:35,600 Speaker 2: woman in the small town of Violet, Louisiana, her to 12 00:00:35,680 --> 00:00:37,760 Speaker 2: knock at the door. It was two o'clock in the 13 00:00:37,800 --> 00:00:40,760 Speaker 2: morning that night. She had been babysitting her three and 14 00:00:40,800 --> 00:00:43,120 Speaker 2: a half year old grandson, and she opened the door 15 00:00:43,200 --> 00:00:44,360 Speaker 2: thinking was her son. 16 00:00:44,159 --> 00:00:45,160 Speaker 3: To pick up the child. 17 00:00:45,720 --> 00:00:48,879 Speaker 2: Instead, two men forced their way into her home and 18 00:00:48,920 --> 00:00:52,120 Speaker 2: demanded to be taken to her safe. When she insisted 19 00:00:52,159 --> 00:00:55,480 Speaker 2: she didn't have one, they raped her and stole her 20 00:00:55,560 --> 00:01:00,480 Speaker 2: stereo equipment and of television. The next door neighbor saw 21 00:01:00,600 --> 00:01:02,480 Speaker 2: the two men walking out of the house with the 22 00:01:02,520 --> 00:01:05,600 Speaker 2: stolen goods. Then they saw them get into a car 23 00:01:05,680 --> 00:01:08,759 Speaker 2: with a woman at the wheel. One of those neighbors 24 00:01:09,040 --> 00:01:11,919 Speaker 2: was twenty four year old Lewis Caesar, and he recognized 25 00:01:11,959 --> 00:01:14,959 Speaker 2: one of the men as Ulysses Pierre, who also went 26 00:01:15,000 --> 00:01:18,759 Speaker 2: by the name of Little Noon. Lewis mother Yolanda, called 27 00:01:18,840 --> 00:01:22,080 Speaker 2: nine one one to report the crime. Later that day, 28 00:01:22,520 --> 00:01:26,080 Speaker 2: police arrested Ulysses and brought them in for questioning. At first, 29 00:01:26,120 --> 00:01:30,240 Speaker 2: he claimed he acted alone, but police physically abused him 30 00:01:30,360 --> 00:01:34,240 Speaker 2: until he admitted that two others were involved. Ulysses said 31 00:01:34,240 --> 00:01:37,440 Speaker 2: that Sidney Williams and his younger cousin, Jarvis Ballard, were 32 00:01:37,480 --> 00:01:39,800 Speaker 2: with him. He also told the police where they hit 33 00:01:39,840 --> 00:01:43,040 Speaker 2: the stolen items. Jarvis was arrested later. 34 00:01:42,800 --> 00:01:43,479 Speaker 3: That same day. 35 00:01:43,880 --> 00:01:47,440 Speaker 2: During their interrogation, he denied taking any part in the crime, 36 00:01:47,720 --> 00:01:51,840 Speaker 2: but after the police threatened and beat him, Jarvis eventually 37 00:01:51,880 --> 00:01:57,320 Speaker 2: signed a false confession statement. Three men were arrested, even 38 00:01:57,360 --> 00:02:00,360 Speaker 2: though the victim and the witnesses said only who had 39 00:02:00,360 --> 00:02:05,680 Speaker 2: been involved. On July twenty first, nineteen ninety nine, Ulysses Pierre, 40 00:02:05,920 --> 00:02:10,000 Speaker 2: Sidney Williams, and Jarvis Ballard were sentenced to life in prison. 41 00:02:11,080 --> 00:02:12,840 Speaker 3: This is wrongful conviction. 42 00:02:23,360 --> 00:02:26,800 Speaker 2: My name is Patrick Persley, also known as Free Patrick Persley. 43 00:02:26,960 --> 00:02:29,359 Speaker 2: I was previously a guest on this show to tell 44 00:02:29,360 --> 00:02:32,840 Speaker 2: the story of my own wrongful conviction. Today, though I'm 45 00:02:32,840 --> 00:02:35,720 Speaker 2: stepping into the host role. This April, I had the 46 00:02:35,800 --> 00:02:38,720 Speaker 2: honor to sit down with Jarvis Ballard and its lawyer 47 00:02:38,800 --> 00:02:42,520 Speaker 2: g Park at the Incense Network conference in Phoenix, Arizona. 48 00:02:43,240 --> 00:02:45,519 Speaker 2: When we spoke, Jarvis had only been out of prison 49 00:02:45,560 --> 00:02:49,400 Speaker 2: for eight months. It was emotional conversation for the both 50 00:02:49,400 --> 00:02:52,920 Speaker 2: of us. I want to say how grateful I am 51 00:02:53,040 --> 00:03:00,280 Speaker 2: to Jarvis for trusting me to tell his story. This 52 00:03:00,400 --> 00:03:04,880 Speaker 2: case here, really it tore me apart because it's very 53 00:03:05,639 --> 00:03:09,080 Speaker 2: steeped in the South and the culture and the practice 54 00:03:09,160 --> 00:03:13,280 Speaker 2: of treatment black men in the South. A very heavy 55 00:03:13,400 --> 00:03:16,680 Speaker 2: accusation of what you went through, what you were accused 56 00:03:16,720 --> 00:03:19,000 Speaker 2: of right, all these things. 57 00:03:21,400 --> 00:03:22,200 Speaker 3: It's very to me. 58 00:03:22,240 --> 00:03:25,880 Speaker 2: It resonated with the historical harms of Deep South attitude 59 00:03:25,919 --> 00:03:29,679 Speaker 2: towards black life. It's very good for you to be here. 60 00:03:29,680 --> 00:03:31,920 Speaker 2: I'm very thankful to meet you. I'm sorry for what 61 00:03:31,960 --> 00:03:37,000 Speaker 2: you went through. Everyone welcomed Jarvis Ballard and his attorney 62 00:03:37,120 --> 00:03:37,680 Speaker 2: G Park. 63 00:03:38,200 --> 00:03:39,040 Speaker 3: Welcome to the show. 64 00:03:39,480 --> 00:03:40,240 Speaker 4: Good to be here. 65 00:03:40,920 --> 00:03:42,160 Speaker 5: It's nice to meet you. Man. 66 00:03:42,560 --> 00:03:45,960 Speaker 2: So tell us a little bit about your past, what 67 00:03:46,040 --> 00:03:48,880 Speaker 2: it's like growing up in Louisiana, what you went through, 68 00:03:48,880 --> 00:03:50,000 Speaker 2: and what you experienced. 69 00:03:50,960 --> 00:03:53,360 Speaker 5: Well, I grew up with a single mother of two. 70 00:03:54,760 --> 00:03:58,920 Speaker 5: My father got killed me nineteen eighty two. He was murdered, 71 00:03:58,960 --> 00:04:01,160 Speaker 5: shot nineteen times, ten and the eight. 72 00:04:02,240 --> 00:04:04,360 Speaker 3: So the word how were you wouldn't go curb. 73 00:04:04,440 --> 00:04:08,360 Speaker 5: I was actually about three, but I I always knew 74 00:04:08,360 --> 00:04:10,720 Speaker 5: that my daddy hung up the wrong crowd, and I 75 00:04:10,800 --> 00:04:12,920 Speaker 5: learned that a lot old day as I grew up, 76 00:04:13,040 --> 00:04:16,359 Speaker 5: because he was a known drug dealer and he was 77 00:04:16,400 --> 00:04:20,400 Speaker 5: known for in New Orleans for having the name of 78 00:04:20,520 --> 00:04:23,440 Speaker 5: killing people. And I always didn't never want to be 79 00:04:23,520 --> 00:04:26,640 Speaker 5: like that cause I always played sports. But I found 80 00:04:26,640 --> 00:04:31,520 Speaker 5: myself having his aggression towards other people, Like you know, 81 00:04:31,560 --> 00:04:33,760 Speaker 5: it don't take much to meet me mad If I 82 00:04:33,800 --> 00:04:37,120 Speaker 5: think you're a bully, you're not gonna bully nobody around me. 83 00:04:37,200 --> 00:04:39,599 Speaker 5: So you know, I always was challenging all the bullets. 84 00:04:39,600 --> 00:04:42,200 Speaker 5: So I took on the name ass lived with the 85 00:04:42,320 --> 00:04:44,240 Speaker 5: roy which is my daddy's name, and they called him 86 00:04:44,279 --> 00:04:47,000 Speaker 5: town Taker because a lot of people are scared to 87 00:04:47,040 --> 00:04:49,640 Speaker 5: mess with him. But I didn't want that cause I 88 00:04:49,680 --> 00:04:51,640 Speaker 5: know eventually soon or later somebody would home me and 89 00:04:51,680 --> 00:04:54,560 Speaker 5: take my life like they took here, started selling drugs 90 00:04:54,560 --> 00:04:55,320 Speaker 5: and smoking weed. 91 00:04:55,680 --> 00:04:57,360 Speaker 3: About how I'm thirteen years old. 92 00:04:57,839 --> 00:05:01,000 Speaker 5: That's common, and you know I'm in high school and 93 00:05:01,000 --> 00:05:03,799 Speaker 5: playing bee's but actually I'll playing bees ball in football, 94 00:05:04,720 --> 00:05:07,160 Speaker 5: and my sports is kind of would help me get 95 00:05:07,200 --> 00:05:08,840 Speaker 5: along with have her just a little bit more than 96 00:05:08,839 --> 00:05:11,400 Speaker 5: the next person, you know, and I would get away 97 00:05:11,400 --> 00:05:13,280 Speaker 5: with a lot. I might get expelled from school. They'll 98 00:05:13,279 --> 00:05:16,200 Speaker 5: send a teacher at the house. Just a good sports 99 00:05:16,360 --> 00:05:17,600 Speaker 5: just coming practice. 100 00:05:17,360 --> 00:05:18,160 Speaker 3: And ride for you. 101 00:05:19,360 --> 00:05:23,520 Speaker 5: But I didn't care about school because like my night 102 00:05:23,800 --> 00:05:25,680 Speaker 5: going in my tenth grade year was over. There was 103 00:05:25,839 --> 00:05:29,320 Speaker 5: just having running in that landed me in Juvet Hall 104 00:05:29,360 --> 00:05:31,919 Speaker 5: for two years. But I just had it. I just 105 00:05:31,960 --> 00:05:33,960 Speaker 5: had a net for getting it. I just like this 106 00:05:34,800 --> 00:05:37,320 Speaker 5: peep bad boys. You know, you know what it is 107 00:05:37,760 --> 00:05:39,200 Speaker 5: you think you're bad. I want to I want I 108 00:05:39,200 --> 00:05:40,960 Speaker 5: want to be the one to be throwing whatever you 109 00:05:41,040 --> 00:05:42,080 Speaker 5: think you got going on. 110 00:05:42,880 --> 00:05:46,320 Speaker 2: His previous interactions with the criminal justice system put him 111 00:05:46,440 --> 00:05:49,400 Speaker 2: on the police radar, and that's how Jarvis got swept 112 00:05:49,480 --> 00:05:51,359 Speaker 2: up into what's about to happen next. 113 00:05:52,520 --> 00:05:56,839 Speaker 4: So in January tenth, nineteen ninety eight. A woman. She 114 00:05:56,960 --> 00:06:00,240 Speaker 4: was a sixty year old white woman. In the middle 115 00:06:00,240 --> 00:06:02,599 Speaker 4: of the night, there's a knock on her door. She 116 00:06:02,680 --> 00:06:05,080 Speaker 4: goes to the door. There are two men who burst 117 00:06:05,080 --> 00:06:08,360 Speaker 4: into her home. They rape her viciously, and then they 118 00:06:08,400 --> 00:06:12,040 Speaker 4: steal things from her. And in her home was her 119 00:06:12,240 --> 00:06:15,080 Speaker 4: grandson whom she was taking care of that night. And 120 00:06:15,160 --> 00:06:18,840 Speaker 4: so right after this horrific incident happens to her, she 121 00:06:18,920 --> 00:06:21,839 Speaker 4: calls the police. She calls nine one one, and she says, 122 00:06:21,920 --> 00:06:25,240 Speaker 4: two black men came into my home, stole my belongings, 123 00:06:25,279 --> 00:06:27,760 Speaker 4: and raped me. And they were in there at her 124 00:06:27,839 --> 00:06:32,560 Speaker 4: home for quite some time. And not only that, they 125 00:06:32,600 --> 00:06:35,800 Speaker 4: covered her eyes or visibility was hindered for most of 126 00:06:35,839 --> 00:06:40,840 Speaker 4: this time. And as this robbery rape is happening, as 127 00:06:40,839 --> 00:06:44,000 Speaker 4: they're carrying things from this woman's home to a car 128 00:06:44,520 --> 00:06:46,920 Speaker 4: right wear in which there was a driver in the car, 129 00:06:46,960 --> 00:06:50,720 Speaker 4: and that driver is a woman. So it's three people total, right, 130 00:06:50,800 --> 00:06:52,760 Speaker 4: Two men who go in the house, and then there's 131 00:06:52,800 --> 00:06:55,000 Speaker 4: a driver who's a woman in the car in the 132 00:06:55,080 --> 00:06:58,680 Speaker 4: get away vehicle, and the neighbors are seeing something happening 133 00:06:59,000 --> 00:07:02,719 Speaker 4: right to their neighbor's home. This is the mother and 134 00:07:02,800 --> 00:07:06,080 Speaker 4: the son, Louis Caesar and Yolanda Caesar, Right, does his 135 00:07:06,160 --> 00:07:09,680 Speaker 4: mother and son who live next door to this woman, Right, 136 00:07:09,840 --> 00:07:12,880 Speaker 4: And they say when they talk to the police that 137 00:07:13,000 --> 00:07:16,560 Speaker 4: night or shortly thereafter, they say they see two men, right, 138 00:07:16,560 --> 00:07:18,680 Speaker 4: and they see a third person in the car. And 139 00:07:18,720 --> 00:07:23,080 Speaker 4: this is what they know immediately after the crime. Now, 140 00:07:23,480 --> 00:07:28,400 Speaker 4: the way Jarvis gets involved is that Lewis recognizes one 141 00:07:28,400 --> 00:07:31,600 Speaker 4: of the people as Pierre. He says, oh, that's Jarvis's 142 00:07:31,640 --> 00:07:37,360 Speaker 4: cousins first cousin. Yeah, Elisi's Pierre. So he recognizes Eulas's Pierre, 143 00:07:37,400 --> 00:07:40,280 Speaker 4: and that's who. So Lewis is the one who tells 144 00:07:40,280 --> 00:07:44,120 Speaker 4: the police. I think one of the men recognize as 145 00:07:44,360 --> 00:07:48,240 Speaker 4: Ulysses Pierre. And the next morning, at ten am, police 146 00:07:48,400 --> 00:07:51,400 Speaker 4: go to Pierre's home. Right, Pierre is the last name, Right, 147 00:07:51,400 --> 00:07:54,480 Speaker 4: Eulasi's his first name. They go to Pierre's home and 148 00:07:54,560 --> 00:07:59,920 Speaker 4: they begin to interrogate him, right, and Pierre gives a 149 00:08:00,160 --> 00:08:03,880 Speaker 4: really unfortunate statement he involved Jarvis. 150 00:08:04,240 --> 00:08:06,520 Speaker 2: On the night of the crime, Jarvis was out at 151 00:08:06,520 --> 00:08:07,880 Speaker 2: the club in New Orleans. 152 00:08:08,240 --> 00:08:10,280 Speaker 5: Well, of course, I was out partying with my friends, 153 00:08:10,880 --> 00:08:13,920 Speaker 5: you know, were having a few drinks, getting high. I 154 00:08:14,040 --> 00:08:17,520 Speaker 5: come home, I'm so entyxicated I my friend had to 155 00:08:17,520 --> 00:08:20,480 Speaker 5: put me in my coat, which is Lowis Caesar. Later 156 00:08:20,480 --> 00:08:22,280 Speaker 5: on I would learn how he the crime would be 157 00:08:22,280 --> 00:08:23,760 Speaker 5: happening right next door to his house. 158 00:08:24,560 --> 00:08:27,200 Speaker 2: Louis Caesar gave Jarvis a ride home from the party. 159 00:08:27,600 --> 00:08:30,720 Speaker 2: Jarvis slept at his grandmother's house, where he often spent 160 00:08:30,840 --> 00:08:31,160 Speaker 2: the night. 161 00:08:31,520 --> 00:08:34,199 Speaker 5: L I get on the next morning, I see all 162 00:08:34,400 --> 00:08:37,080 Speaker 5: these I'm thinking it's around up in the around up 163 00:08:37,200 --> 00:08:38,480 Speaker 5: is when they come pick you up up when you 164 00:08:38,520 --> 00:08:41,280 Speaker 5: say telling they covered nocadi right, So I'm like, man, 165 00:08:41,360 --> 00:08:43,600 Speaker 5: So I go back inside, make a phone. I say, Man, 166 00:08:43,640 --> 00:08:45,760 Speaker 5: they rounding people up for drugs something Me said No, 167 00:08:46,559 --> 00:08:49,560 Speaker 5: he said, look Little Nowon which is my cousin. They 168 00:08:49,720 --> 00:08:50,959 Speaker 5: just arrestident for a rape. 169 00:08:51,280 --> 00:08:53,959 Speaker 2: Later that morning, Jarvis went down the street to hang 170 00:08:54,000 --> 00:08:56,240 Speaker 2: out with a friend. He noticed on the way that 171 00:08:56,280 --> 00:08:58,880 Speaker 2: the police were out in front of his cousin, Tracy's house, 172 00:08:59,320 --> 00:09:01,120 Speaker 2: so he asked a friend what was going on. 173 00:09:01,480 --> 00:09:03,880 Speaker 5: So he like, man, something happened last night with Little 174 00:09:03,920 --> 00:09:06,520 Speaker 5: nowon Himsel, which is Juless. I already know what he 175 00:09:06,640 --> 00:09:08,800 Speaker 5: talking about, cause I heard it. He said. They say 176 00:09:08,880 --> 00:09:11,600 Speaker 5: he they put the stuff in her two shit. So 177 00:09:11,640 --> 00:09:13,760 Speaker 5: this draws me to go walk down there because I 178 00:09:13,760 --> 00:09:15,280 Speaker 5: want to know what's going on with Hall. This is 179 00:09:15,320 --> 00:09:18,880 Speaker 5: my family. But as I'm walking, they didn't already took 180 00:09:18,880 --> 00:09:21,320 Speaker 5: the stuff out the shade. They asking her about me, 181 00:09:22,240 --> 00:09:25,520 Speaker 5: do you know where jaws better at? And she's pointing, 182 00:09:25,559 --> 00:09:28,320 Speaker 5: telling him that him coming right there. So as I'm coming, 183 00:09:28,360 --> 00:09:29,760 Speaker 5: they say you jolways a bet. I said yeah. They 184 00:09:29,760 --> 00:09:32,080 Speaker 5: say get on the ground, which I complied. When I 185 00:09:32,160 --> 00:09:35,640 Speaker 5: got there, Detective Calvin bought p arrested me. He bought 186 00:09:35,640 --> 00:09:39,160 Speaker 5: me there and I was interviewed by Scott Davis, That's 187 00:09:39,160 --> 00:09:41,080 Speaker 5: who actually met me at the door. He said, you 188 00:09:41,080 --> 00:09:43,240 Speaker 5: wanna rape old white women, and I'm like, I ain't 189 00:09:43,320 --> 00:09:47,160 Speaker 5: rape nobody, and he spread pepper spray on me. Now 190 00:09:47,160 --> 00:09:49,360 Speaker 5: I'm looking at my cousin, and my cousin are fairly 191 00:09:49,800 --> 00:09:52,120 Speaker 5: light skinny, so I see where he can like he 192 00:09:52,200 --> 00:09:55,000 Speaker 5: been attacked, and he like, man, just tell him what happened. 193 00:09:55,000 --> 00:09:56,280 Speaker 5: I'm like, I don't know what happened. What are you 194 00:09:56,360 --> 00:09:56,920 Speaker 5: talking about? 195 00:09:57,320 --> 00:09:57,520 Speaker 3: Now? 196 00:09:57,559 --> 00:10:00,520 Speaker 2: This next part I have to warn the listener it's 197 00:10:00,679 --> 00:10:03,679 Speaker 2: very difficult to talk about and very difficult to hear. 198 00:10:05,240 --> 00:10:08,720 Speaker 2: But during the interrogation, Jarvis was subject to a high 199 00:10:08,760 --> 00:10:12,360 Speaker 2: level of brutality. He was sprayed with pepper spray and 200 00:10:12,480 --> 00:10:15,920 Speaker 2: kicked repeatedly in the groin. The injuries he got from 201 00:10:15,920 --> 00:10:19,000 Speaker 2: the police required him to have emergency surgery. 202 00:10:19,080 --> 00:10:21,240 Speaker 5: And you know, they kicked me in me pretty much. 203 00:10:21,559 --> 00:10:23,640 Speaker 5: It was very clear. I knew we did that. He 204 00:10:23,679 --> 00:10:29,080 Speaker 5: did it two or three times I have, and I 205 00:10:29,240 --> 00:10:31,280 Speaker 5: just like, like gesaid, I don't understand why our family 206 00:10:31,320 --> 00:10:32,720 Speaker 5: put people in those positions. 207 00:10:34,679 --> 00:10:36,680 Speaker 4: But you know, I think the police had no right 208 00:10:37,160 --> 00:10:39,400 Speaker 4: to treat you like that, all right. I mean they 209 00:10:39,440 --> 00:10:41,640 Speaker 4: didn't have to spread. I mean they don't have They 210 00:10:41,640 --> 00:10:45,040 Speaker 4: didn't have to. You know, people do not They didn't 211 00:10:45,040 --> 00:10:45,600 Speaker 4: have to physical. 212 00:10:49,320 --> 00:10:53,120 Speaker 2: While they were interrogating Jarvis, the police were also interrogating 213 00:10:53,440 --> 00:10:58,120 Speaker 2: his cousin Ulysses and sister Kuandrika. Jarvis could actually hear 214 00:10:58,160 --> 00:11:01,520 Speaker 2: his sister from the other room in the police stay because. 215 00:11:01,320 --> 00:11:03,280 Speaker 5: I hit my sister and they crying and she's like, 216 00:11:03,360 --> 00:11:04,320 Speaker 5: it wasn't you know? 217 00:11:04,360 --> 00:11:05,720 Speaker 3: It was me Lenoon And. 218 00:11:05,559 --> 00:11:08,840 Speaker 2: Now you were feeling protective or vulnerable with her there 219 00:11:09,120 --> 00:11:09,680 Speaker 2: as well. 220 00:11:09,840 --> 00:11:11,360 Speaker 5: I didn't want to see he'll get in no trouble 221 00:11:11,440 --> 00:11:13,440 Speaker 5: because I was like, man, well she ain't got herself 222 00:11:13,480 --> 00:11:13,760 Speaker 5: into it. 223 00:11:14,720 --> 00:11:19,080 Speaker 2: Finally, after all that fiscal abuse and then stink to 224 00:11:19,120 --> 00:11:24,320 Speaker 2: protect the sister, Jarvis's will was completely overborne, and he 225 00:11:24,480 --> 00:11:27,119 Speaker 2: relented and he signed a false confession. 226 00:11:28,000 --> 00:11:30,600 Speaker 5: Then that man told my mom that she can have 227 00:11:30,720 --> 00:11:37,439 Speaker 5: her daughter. I got your son. So now I had 228 00:11:37,440 --> 00:11:41,200 Speaker 5: to play save my sister and y'all beating me. I'm 229 00:11:41,200 --> 00:11:43,199 Speaker 5: this wrong man, but y'all had to make a decision, 230 00:11:44,200 --> 00:11:47,400 Speaker 5: and once I signed a statement, then their case was 231 00:11:47,480 --> 00:11:49,319 Speaker 5: kind of sealed for them. And the only thing I 232 00:11:49,320 --> 00:11:50,880 Speaker 5: could hope is that God one day would have me 233 00:11:50,920 --> 00:11:51,480 Speaker 5: in this position. 234 00:11:51,559 --> 00:11:51,800 Speaker 3: RIGHTO. 235 00:12:07,080 --> 00:12:10,080 Speaker 2: So basically a trial, what was presented? What did the 236 00:12:10,160 --> 00:12:12,719 Speaker 2: jury here? What's you know? How was that broke down 237 00:12:12,760 --> 00:12:15,600 Speaker 2: to the jury because obviously they weren't apprized of all 238 00:12:15,640 --> 00:12:17,200 Speaker 2: the facts, right. 239 00:12:17,559 --> 00:12:19,600 Speaker 4: So the state presented, I mean the state relied on 240 00:12:19,640 --> 00:12:24,480 Speaker 4: three pieces of evidence. One was the positive identification of 241 00:12:24,640 --> 00:12:27,160 Speaker 4: Jarvis by the complainant, by the victim and the case. 242 00:12:27,040 --> 00:12:28,679 Speaker 3: Which is all it takes, right. 243 00:12:28,760 --> 00:12:32,559 Speaker 4: I mean it for a sixty year old white woman 244 00:12:32,760 --> 00:12:35,400 Speaker 4: to say in the courtroom pointing to Jarvis and saying 245 00:12:35,440 --> 00:12:39,120 Speaker 4: that is the man who raped me, that's pretty powerful evidence. 246 00:12:40,720 --> 00:12:44,319 Speaker 4: The second piece of evidence was co defended Ulysses Pear's 247 00:12:44,320 --> 00:12:49,720 Speaker 4: statement right, implicating Jarvis, and then Jarvis's own confession that 248 00:12:49,840 --> 00:12:52,319 Speaker 4: they took from him. So those were the three pieces 249 00:12:52,320 --> 00:12:52,720 Speaker 4: of evidence. 250 00:12:52,800 --> 00:12:57,079 Speaker 2: That's a steep, steep, steep mountain to overcome. 251 00:12:58,000 --> 00:13:02,480 Speaker 4: It is because the physical evidence only link to Ulysses 252 00:13:02,559 --> 00:13:05,600 Speaker 4: Pierre and Sidney Williams, the two guys who actually committed 253 00:13:05,600 --> 00:13:08,000 Speaker 4: the cross which makes sense. And there was nothing, no 254 00:13:08,080 --> 00:13:12,920 Speaker 4: physical evidence, no DNA, nothing that connected Jarvis to the scene. Yeah, 255 00:13:12,960 --> 00:13:16,840 Speaker 4: And so after the police was called, after the victim 256 00:13:16,880 --> 00:13:19,480 Speaker 4: gave her statement, she was taken to the hospital, right, 257 00:13:19,840 --> 00:13:23,040 Speaker 4: and a sexual assault kid was performed on her. They 258 00:13:23,080 --> 00:13:28,640 Speaker 4: collected evidence, physical evidence, right, and they conducted DNA testing 259 00:13:28,920 --> 00:13:31,040 Speaker 4: on that too, physical on the physical evidence that was 260 00:13:31,040 --> 00:13:34,120 Speaker 4: collected from the scene and from her body, and they 261 00:13:34,120 --> 00:13:39,360 Speaker 4: were able to identify two male profiles, and neither one 262 00:13:39,360 --> 00:13:43,520 Speaker 4: of those belonged to join us. These two male profiles 263 00:13:43,520 --> 00:13:48,479 Speaker 4: they developed belonged to Ulysses Pierre and also to Sidney Williams, 264 00:13:48,679 --> 00:13:51,000 Speaker 4: the two men who actually committed this crime. The jury 265 00:13:51,080 --> 00:13:54,319 Speaker 4: did not hear all the relevant evidence that they should 266 00:13:54,360 --> 00:13:58,120 Speaker 4: have heard to decide what actually happened in this case. 267 00:13:58,400 --> 00:14:01,440 Speaker 4: I mean, it's a take care about to efficiency more 268 00:14:01,480 --> 00:14:07,000 Speaker 4: than accuracy and justice and fairness. Louisiana, you know, has 269 00:14:07,040 --> 00:14:11,320 Speaker 4: the highest incarceration per capita in the entire world, right, 270 00:14:12,559 --> 00:14:15,520 Speaker 4: and not only that, we have the highest exoneration rate 271 00:14:15,960 --> 00:14:19,760 Speaker 4: per capita in the country. And so when you put 272 00:14:19,760 --> 00:14:22,440 Speaker 4: those numbers together, you wonder what is really going on 273 00:14:22,560 --> 00:14:25,320 Speaker 4: here in the South. The fact of the matter is, 274 00:14:25,400 --> 00:14:27,840 Speaker 4: you know, Jarvis was represented by a public defender system 275 00:14:27,880 --> 00:14:29,800 Speaker 4: that is still falling apart in Louisiana. 276 00:14:30,200 --> 00:14:30,400 Speaker 5: Right. 277 00:14:30,600 --> 00:14:34,280 Speaker 4: You need effective attorneys to investigate your cases. His attorneys 278 00:14:34,280 --> 00:14:37,440 Speaker 4: didn't have an investigator, right. His attorney didn't know the 279 00:14:37,520 --> 00:14:40,920 Speaker 4: discovery practices in the jurisdiction that he was practicing. 280 00:14:40,960 --> 00:14:41,960 Speaker 3: It you get the file. 281 00:14:42,320 --> 00:14:45,040 Speaker 6: Yeah, so attorneys, you would think that would be the 282 00:14:46,080 --> 00:14:47,960 Speaker 6: you want a complete file, right. 283 00:14:47,960 --> 00:14:51,600 Speaker 4: Right, right, right, No, it's your obligation, it's your duty, 284 00:14:51,720 --> 00:14:52,360 Speaker 4: it's your job. 285 00:14:52,480 --> 00:14:55,560 Speaker 3: And then on the flip side, you have the prosecutor. 286 00:14:55,480 --> 00:14:58,480 Speaker 4: Who also has a duty to turn over turn everything. 287 00:15:00,240 --> 00:15:03,040 Speaker 5: I feel like once they seen who it was, it 288 00:15:03,080 --> 00:15:05,160 Speaker 5: was old, it didn't even matter no more about how 289 00:15:05,160 --> 00:15:08,280 Speaker 5: I get this conviction. I just wanted you know, you 290 00:15:08,320 --> 00:15:11,600 Speaker 5: ever elderly white woman fifty was nine at the time, 291 00:15:11,960 --> 00:15:15,040 Speaker 5: sixty years old, she's rape. You knew. I understood that 292 00:15:15,840 --> 00:15:18,200 Speaker 5: well what I was up against because I understood growing 293 00:15:18,280 --> 00:15:20,520 Speaker 5: up down and how it was, so I knew that 294 00:15:20,560 --> 00:15:22,560 Speaker 5: it was dominanted about white people. 295 00:15:22,800 --> 00:15:23,360 Speaker 3: I learned this. 296 00:15:23,880 --> 00:15:26,200 Speaker 5: I further of all, I have to learn that whatever happened, 297 00:15:26,800 --> 00:15:29,240 Speaker 5: I got to know that it was wrong. What happened 298 00:15:29,280 --> 00:15:30,440 Speaker 5: to the woman. I looked at the root of the 299 00:15:30,440 --> 00:15:32,840 Speaker 5: problem was she got rape. Ain't nothing right about that. 300 00:15:33,880 --> 00:15:37,040 Speaker 5: Now I understand that the police had to make call, 301 00:15:37,240 --> 00:15:40,360 Speaker 5: make me a victim. That's when the racism come in. Look, 302 00:15:40,440 --> 00:15:42,680 Speaker 5: we got this black head that he's saying that he 303 00:15:43,120 --> 00:15:45,120 Speaker 5: did this to you and did this here, and we 304 00:15:45,160 --> 00:15:46,960 Speaker 5: want to show you a picture. You remember seeing it 305 00:15:46,960 --> 00:15:48,960 Speaker 5: in your house. Now your points great at the picture. 306 00:15:49,880 --> 00:15:51,320 Speaker 5: So I knew how it Now. 307 00:15:51,360 --> 00:15:55,320 Speaker 2: This is one day almost like suggested to her that 308 00:15:55,320 --> 00:15:56,760 Speaker 2: there was three hours they did. 309 00:15:56,800 --> 00:15:59,280 Speaker 5: They did out the gate. Actually they brought this woman 310 00:15:59,280 --> 00:16:02,120 Speaker 5: in front of me doing a trial session in Exa. 311 00:16:02,600 --> 00:16:04,400 Speaker 5: He told me, see if this woman said you went 312 00:16:04,440 --> 00:16:05,840 Speaker 5: in the house, I'm gonna let you go right now. 313 00:16:06,440 --> 00:16:09,000 Speaker 5: He said, this guy right here saying that you wasn't 314 00:16:09,040 --> 00:16:12,240 Speaker 5: in his house. The woman started crying. She said yes, 315 00:16:12,280 --> 00:16:14,360 Speaker 5: she was you rading me? I'm like, ma'am, I don't 316 00:16:14,360 --> 00:16:15,080 Speaker 5: even know you. 317 00:16:15,680 --> 00:16:19,400 Speaker 2: On July twenty first, nineteen ninety nine, after less than 318 00:16:19,440 --> 00:16:23,440 Speaker 2: four hours of deliberation, the jury convicts Jarvis Ballard and 319 00:16:23,600 --> 00:16:27,720 Speaker 2: Ulysses Pierre of aggravated rape. The next day, Sidney Williams 320 00:16:27,840 --> 00:16:31,000 Speaker 2: was convicted of the same All three were sentenced to 321 00:16:31,120 --> 00:16:33,120 Speaker 2: life in prison without parole. 322 00:16:34,680 --> 00:16:40,920 Speaker 4: Jarvis's case is particularly heartbreaking because it happened within a family, right. 323 00:16:41,240 --> 00:16:44,320 Speaker 4: It's about family as I turned kind of against one 324 00:16:44,360 --> 00:16:49,880 Speaker 4: another and that got one of their brother cousin right 325 00:16:50,080 --> 00:16:52,720 Speaker 4: in prison for twenty three years. And so I think 326 00:16:52,720 --> 00:16:54,560 Speaker 4: this case is incredibly heartbreaking. 327 00:16:55,600 --> 00:16:57,880 Speaker 5: It's more than a betrayal. You know, I forgive him, 328 00:16:57,880 --> 00:17:00,440 Speaker 5: but I would never be able to help vie with him, 329 00:17:00,720 --> 00:17:03,160 Speaker 5: right because you didn't have no reason to do that 330 00:17:03,160 --> 00:17:07,160 Speaker 5: to that woman or to me to You made two 331 00:17:07,240 --> 00:17:10,640 Speaker 5: victims that laid in me. Then you took something from 332 00:17:10,680 --> 00:17:13,040 Speaker 5: me that you didn't have to do. So I don't 333 00:17:13,040 --> 00:17:16,640 Speaker 5: I don't talk years twenty three years, six months, twenty 334 00:17:16,680 --> 00:17:17,960 Speaker 5: three seven days. 335 00:17:18,680 --> 00:17:20,240 Speaker 3: And you knew him all your life. 336 00:17:20,320 --> 00:17:22,399 Speaker 5: This is my We took baths together. 337 00:17:22,560 --> 00:17:23,440 Speaker 3: You knew him all your life. 338 00:17:23,480 --> 00:17:26,399 Speaker 5: He was my He was my big cousin, but I 339 00:17:26,520 --> 00:17:29,320 Speaker 5: was you know, he's like my brother because I always 340 00:17:29,400 --> 00:17:32,600 Speaker 5: was much bigger than all him. But you you know, 341 00:17:32,680 --> 00:17:36,560 Speaker 5: you hurt me. And I don't hate, but I just 342 00:17:36,640 --> 00:17:37,720 Speaker 5: rather than not deal with him. 343 00:17:38,920 --> 00:17:41,920 Speaker 2: During his twenty three years inside, Jarvis made a few 344 00:17:41,960 --> 00:17:46,600 Speaker 2: good friends. One was Jerome Morgan, now fellow axignery. 345 00:17:47,320 --> 00:17:50,879 Speaker 5: You know, and you meet people along the way, not 346 00:17:51,000 --> 00:17:55,000 Speaker 5: knowing that y'all said the same, similar story, just different 347 00:17:55,720 --> 00:17:58,040 Speaker 5: It mean, it's just different cases but the same situation. 348 00:17:59,400 --> 00:18:03,119 Speaker 5: And I met Jerome and we become good friends, and 349 00:18:03,160 --> 00:18:06,359 Speaker 5: he actually, like a man talk to me. I looked 350 00:18:06,400 --> 00:18:11,000 Speaker 5: to him, you know, I watched them countless nights up 351 00:18:11,200 --> 00:18:13,760 Speaker 5: two three days working on his case in a don't 352 00:18:13,760 --> 00:18:15,879 Speaker 5: I'm talking. We set up in the same play sports together, 353 00:18:17,280 --> 00:18:21,000 Speaker 5: and you know, he was preparing himself for this date, 354 00:18:21,200 --> 00:18:25,919 Speaker 5: but I wasn't. I only had hope, you know. And 355 00:18:26,040 --> 00:18:28,399 Speaker 5: it was people like him that encouraged me to start 356 00:18:28,400 --> 00:18:30,720 Speaker 5: writing The Innocent Project. He saying, all right, have you 357 00:18:30,760 --> 00:18:31,479 Speaker 5: said you're innocent? 358 00:18:31,520 --> 00:18:31,639 Speaker 1: Right? 359 00:18:31,680 --> 00:18:35,880 Speaker 5: Innocent Project? So you know it's people like him, and 360 00:18:35,920 --> 00:18:40,480 Speaker 5: not knowing that, you know, years later, the same person 361 00:18:40,480 --> 00:18:43,199 Speaker 5: that helped him get out of present would help actually 362 00:18:43,200 --> 00:18:43,600 Speaker 5: take my. 363 00:18:43,600 --> 00:18:47,560 Speaker 2: Case, Jarvis wrote to the Innocence Project in New Orleans, 364 00:18:47,680 --> 00:18:51,080 Speaker 2: Ipno for sure, and they eventually took his case and 365 00:18:51,119 --> 00:18:52,800 Speaker 2: helped him fight for his designeration. 366 00:18:53,640 --> 00:18:56,679 Speaker 4: In terms of investigating this case, we began to collect 367 00:18:57,040 --> 00:19:00,600 Speaker 4: all the documents right related to this case, file for 368 00:19:00,720 --> 00:19:03,600 Speaker 4: police records, to court files, anything and everything we get 369 00:19:03,600 --> 00:19:07,320 Speaker 4: our hands on. And it's challenging to get access to 370 00:19:07,400 --> 00:19:08,120 Speaker 4: old records. 371 00:19:08,320 --> 00:19:08,520 Speaker 7: Right. 372 00:19:08,840 --> 00:19:12,320 Speaker 4: Sometimes they're lost, sometimes they're misplaced. Sometimes they give you 373 00:19:12,359 --> 00:19:15,440 Speaker 4: copies that's heavily redacted. Sometimes they give you copies with 374 00:19:15,520 --> 00:19:16,280 Speaker 4: missing pages. 375 00:19:16,520 --> 00:19:16,720 Speaker 5: Right. 376 00:19:16,800 --> 00:19:18,919 Speaker 4: And so I have to say it took us more 377 00:19:19,000 --> 00:19:22,120 Speaker 4: time than we should have for us to gather, not. 378 00:19:22,240 --> 00:19:25,480 Speaker 3: Just for the audience, the time that takes investigate. 379 00:19:26,119 --> 00:19:28,919 Speaker 4: Oh my goodness. I mean there's been some sort of 380 00:19:28,960 --> 00:19:32,480 Speaker 4: investigation happening since two thousand and eight, two twenty seventeen, right, 381 00:19:32,880 --> 00:19:39,080 Speaker 4: I mean we're talking nine years, right, And so what 382 00:19:39,119 --> 00:19:43,199 Speaker 4: we learned, So during trial, we already talked about the 383 00:19:43,520 --> 00:19:48,800 Speaker 4: witness Lewis Caesar, Right, the neighbor who initially stated that 384 00:19:48,840 --> 00:19:50,720 Speaker 4: he saw two men leaving the house and there's a 385 00:19:50,720 --> 00:19:52,960 Speaker 4: woman in the car. Right, That was his initial statement 386 00:19:53,000 --> 00:19:56,080 Speaker 4: to the police. What he testified to a trial was 387 00:19:56,119 --> 00:19:58,840 Speaker 4: not that though. What he testified to a trial was 388 00:19:58,880 --> 00:20:02,399 Speaker 4: that he saw three men three men. That was his 389 00:20:02,480 --> 00:20:06,080 Speaker 4: testimony at trial, so his testimony completely changed. Joey doesn't 390 00:20:06,160 --> 00:20:08,000 Speaker 4: hear that he's wired. 391 00:20:07,800 --> 00:20:08,960 Speaker 3: And cross examined for. 392 00:20:09,200 --> 00:20:12,440 Speaker 4: Not The lawyer doesn't really know either, right. 393 00:20:12,280 --> 00:20:14,280 Speaker 2: The lawyer doesn't he doesn't get the file. 394 00:20:14,400 --> 00:20:16,640 Speaker 4: He doesn't get the file, and or he doesn't conduct 395 00:20:16,640 --> 00:20:21,760 Speaker 4: the investigation. He never went and interviewed Lewis Caesar before trial. 396 00:20:22,240 --> 00:20:25,040 Speaker 4: He is an eyewitness in this case, and the attorney 397 00:20:25,119 --> 00:20:29,040 Speaker 4: representing Jarvis never thought it was important enough to go 398 00:20:29,119 --> 00:20:31,560 Speaker 4: talk to an eyewitness in the case. So the lawyer 399 00:20:31,600 --> 00:20:32,960 Speaker 4: doesn't know about this, right. 400 00:20:33,320 --> 00:20:35,560 Speaker 5: The DNA always probably be like the center of it, 401 00:20:35,640 --> 00:20:37,720 Speaker 5: because we know all we need to do is get 402 00:20:37,720 --> 00:20:39,520 Speaker 5: all the other pieces of evidence. Well, I could see, 403 00:20:39,520 --> 00:20:42,600 Speaker 5: all right, we know Javis was innocent. And actually I 404 00:20:43,040 --> 00:20:45,600 Speaker 5: didn't know this. Topno found that out recently, that they 405 00:20:45,640 --> 00:20:49,000 Speaker 5: didn't test my rape kit. But he tested partial. 406 00:20:48,680 --> 00:20:51,600 Speaker 3: Parts of it, so it's certain parts that he didn't test. 407 00:20:51,680 --> 00:20:53,880 Speaker 5: But basically when he ran the test bank, everything still 408 00:20:53,920 --> 00:20:55,119 Speaker 5: came back. He's I don't reading me. 409 00:20:56,119 --> 00:20:59,120 Speaker 2: Ultimately, it was a combination of things that got Jarvis 410 00:20:59,119 --> 00:21:03,040 Speaker 2: out of prison. Ipno obtained affidavits from witnesses to the 411 00:21:03,080 --> 00:21:07,440 Speaker 2: crime and to Jarvis's alibi, and retesting the rape could 412 00:21:07,560 --> 00:21:11,600 Speaker 2: showed that none of jarvis DNA was present. After round 413 00:21:11,680 --> 00:21:15,200 Speaker 2: of appeals, the district attorney released Jarvis Ballad from prison 414 00:21:15,280 --> 00:21:19,000 Speaker 2: and affirmed his innocence. But before they told Jarvis he 415 00:21:19,119 --> 00:21:22,600 Speaker 2: was getting out, one of his lawyers, Charill Arnold, had 416 00:21:22,600 --> 00:21:23,800 Speaker 2: a bit of fun with him. 417 00:21:24,119 --> 00:21:26,280 Speaker 5: Shara was supposed to send me a business book. She 418 00:21:26,400 --> 00:21:28,920 Speaker 5: never signed it, so I said, why you didn't send 419 00:21:28,960 --> 00:21:31,800 Speaker 5: my book? She said, I'm gonna have to find another 420 00:21:31,800 --> 00:21:33,280 Speaker 5: way to make it up to you, because she liked 421 00:21:33,280 --> 00:21:35,520 Speaker 5: the Joe too. I said, yeah, well you you know 422 00:21:35,520 --> 00:21:36,760 Speaker 5: you say you're gonna say it. She said, well, how 423 00:21:36,800 --> 00:21:38,359 Speaker 5: can I make it up to you? I said, you 424 00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:40,159 Speaker 5: can get me out there. She said, no, we're going 425 00:21:40,240 --> 00:21:45,040 Speaker 5: to do that tomorrow. Brush. See what she said. They 426 00:21:45,160 --> 00:22:02,720 Speaker 5: threw all your charges out. You're coming home tomorrow. If 427 00:22:02,720 --> 00:22:04,639 Speaker 5: we had a world where it was one side and 428 00:22:05,280 --> 00:22:09,639 Speaker 5: you just let crime go, probably wouldn't be here, you 429 00:22:09,800 --> 00:22:12,119 Speaker 5: and a lot of us. But they need. That's the 430 00:22:12,119 --> 00:22:14,199 Speaker 5: only way this world operate. You need to have that. 431 00:22:15,320 --> 00:22:19,639 Speaker 5: But sometimes people get arrested bad like you and I 432 00:22:19,680 --> 00:22:23,000 Speaker 5: and the process of that. You know, I'm still young, 433 00:22:23,040 --> 00:22:25,199 Speaker 5: I'm still active. I like to work out. I have 434 00:22:25,359 --> 00:22:27,560 Speaker 5: value fund. I play with the kids. I'm like a 435 00:22:27,560 --> 00:22:30,720 Speaker 5: big old child when I go to the fair. Guess 436 00:22:30,760 --> 00:22:33,120 Speaker 5: where I'm at on the on the rise with the kids. 437 00:22:33,760 --> 00:22:35,920 Speaker 5: The two hundred and fifty pound elament. I might can't 438 00:22:35,920 --> 00:22:37,320 Speaker 5: get on this wanting they go somewhere else. 439 00:22:37,800 --> 00:22:40,920 Speaker 4: Jarvis home since August eight months. 440 00:22:40,960 --> 00:22:45,160 Speaker 5: That's work. That's where I work at. I work in 441 00:22:45,240 --> 00:22:49,000 Speaker 5: the Federal Fifth Circuit Court House, remodeling. 442 00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:54,240 Speaker 6: Irony, listen, God works, gone is good? 443 00:22:55,119 --> 00:22:57,960 Speaker 5: Put me in his fleece. I'm be they remodeling it. 444 00:22:58,359 --> 00:23:01,320 Speaker 5: So I'm working with the construction people and I'm getting 445 00:23:01,320 --> 00:23:04,639 Speaker 5: on the elevator with guess what judges that then probably 446 00:23:04,640 --> 00:23:07,320 Speaker 5: seen my keys. But when I told one of those 447 00:23:07,359 --> 00:23:13,200 Speaker 5: guys my story and he gouled it, he liked, man, congratulations, 448 00:23:14,080 --> 00:23:15,600 Speaker 5: you know, And I let him know that I respect 449 00:23:15,640 --> 00:23:19,040 Speaker 5: everything he stand for. I really do you know. I 450 00:23:19,080 --> 00:23:20,639 Speaker 5: respect everything that Genie's stand for. 451 00:23:21,720 --> 00:23:27,119 Speaker 2: By chance, Jarvis ran into District Attorney Perry Nicosia, the 452 00:23:27,200 --> 00:23:29,600 Speaker 2: man who dismissed the case allowed him to walk free 453 00:23:29,640 --> 00:23:32,560 Speaker 2: after twenty three years behind bars, and they had the 454 00:23:32,680 --> 00:23:33,880 Speaker 2: opportunity to talk. 455 00:23:34,080 --> 00:23:36,600 Speaker 5: You know, I met Perry and he was like, man, 456 00:23:36,680 --> 00:23:39,280 Speaker 5: I'm very very very sorry. I'm like, Perry, Man, you 457 00:23:39,280 --> 00:23:41,200 Speaker 5: did the right thing, and I appreciate that. That's the 458 00:23:41,280 --> 00:23:43,840 Speaker 5: day you did the right thing. I say, Man, I 459 00:23:43,920 --> 00:23:44,960 Speaker 5: really appreciate that. 460 00:23:45,840 --> 00:23:49,360 Speaker 2: Jerome Morgan, the one who encouraged Jarvis to reach out 461 00:23:49,359 --> 00:23:52,280 Speaker 2: to IPNO in the first place. He was also there 462 00:23:52,320 --> 00:23:55,919 Speaker 2: to help him cope with this transition to free world living. 463 00:23:56,359 --> 00:23:59,600 Speaker 5: But when you come in prison, man, it's a different 464 00:23:59,640 --> 00:24:02,960 Speaker 5: typen atmosphere. And when you meet good people like this guy, 465 00:24:03,760 --> 00:24:06,480 Speaker 5: you know, you want to hold on to them, you know, 466 00:24:06,600 --> 00:24:10,840 Speaker 5: because it's very specially coming out of that place. Because 467 00:24:11,040 --> 00:24:12,920 Speaker 5: the same way he smiled, and I'm been smiling the 468 00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:15,880 Speaker 5: whole time. I got emotional and serious, but the whole 469 00:24:15,920 --> 00:24:19,440 Speaker 5: time I always had a legitterate, happy attitude. We don't 470 00:24:19,520 --> 00:24:24,040 Speaker 5: let what happened to us, you know, distraw so have 471 00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:25,679 Speaker 5: us to the point where we got a lot of 472 00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:28,280 Speaker 5: hate and bitterness in us. We don't do that. We 473 00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:31,560 Speaker 5: describe for better. And he teaches me that every day 474 00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:35,160 Speaker 5: and that's the journey. I'm all right now, I really 475 00:24:35,320 --> 00:24:39,399 Speaker 5: want to focus on, you know, trying to you know, 476 00:24:39,440 --> 00:24:42,760 Speaker 5: get in position to where when hypno call us, we 477 00:24:42,800 --> 00:24:45,400 Speaker 5: can be there for those dudes. You know, it ain't 478 00:24:45,520 --> 00:24:48,680 Speaker 5: much about being financial to just being there, and he 479 00:24:48,800 --> 00:24:50,760 Speaker 5: do that issue with everybody, and that's the type of 480 00:24:50,800 --> 00:24:54,600 Speaker 5: relationship that we're trying to create for people that's coming 481 00:24:54,640 --> 00:24:56,760 Speaker 5: home through this program. 482 00:24:57,200 --> 00:24:59,800 Speaker 2: Jerome was a previous guest on this podcast, and now 483 00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:02,720 Speaker 2: back to talk about how he and Jarvis are teaming 484 00:25:02,800 --> 00:25:05,760 Speaker 2: up to help other dexigneries coming home in New Orleans. 485 00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:07,199 Speaker 5: Thank you for having me. 486 00:25:07,760 --> 00:25:10,480 Speaker 7: I never thought that I would be back along these lines, 487 00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:13,960 Speaker 7: but I appreciate how this has come about because we 488 00:25:14,080 --> 00:25:17,280 Speaker 7: went through some of the similar things by being wrongfully 489 00:25:17,359 --> 00:25:21,119 Speaker 7: convicted and being in prison where it don't matter if 490 00:25:21,119 --> 00:25:23,680 Speaker 7: you're guilty or not, you still get the same treatment. 491 00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:27,800 Speaker 7: You can't acclimate yourself to society how they operating, you 492 00:25:27,840 --> 00:25:30,639 Speaker 7: know now and as they were when you was in prison. 493 00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:34,240 Speaker 7: You know, so you have to, I guess self, create 494 00:25:34,359 --> 00:25:38,080 Speaker 7: a way to live in that space because there's no 495 00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:41,280 Speaker 7: roadmath for you. And the closest roadmath for somebody is 496 00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:44,080 Speaker 7: coming home to the arms of people who have been 497 00:25:44,119 --> 00:25:47,120 Speaker 7: through that situation. That's what we want to provide now. 498 00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:50,959 Speaker 7: And I'm glad that you know, Jarvis has you know, 499 00:25:51,240 --> 00:25:54,320 Speaker 7: been encouraged and inspired to do that throughout his time, 500 00:25:54,359 --> 00:25:57,800 Speaker 7: even in prison. You know, it shows that he honestly 501 00:25:57,920 --> 00:26:01,440 Speaker 7: wants to be a positive person and despite the negative 502 00:26:01,480 --> 00:26:04,840 Speaker 7: things that has happened to them and to me. You know, 503 00:26:04,920 --> 00:26:06,840 Speaker 7: that's some of the greatest people in the world. 504 00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:10,000 Speaker 2: So we'll have the link in the bio for IPNO 505 00:26:10,400 --> 00:26:13,800 Speaker 2: as well as your GoFundMe And I really really want 506 00:26:13,920 --> 00:26:15,959 Speaker 2: thank you for trust me to tell your story. I 507 00:26:16,040 --> 00:26:18,919 Speaker 2: really do, like I've never met you before, so this 508 00:26:19,080 --> 00:26:23,040 Speaker 2: is amazing for me. It's a process for me. And 509 00:26:23,520 --> 00:26:28,080 Speaker 2: just know that you can call me personally anytime. Okay, 510 00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:31,560 Speaker 2: because my brother and my exignery brothers in that exoneration. 511 00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:34,640 Speaker 2: We're at the part of the show now where it's 512 00:26:34,680 --> 00:26:37,760 Speaker 2: called closing arguments, where well I turn off my mic 513 00:26:38,600 --> 00:26:40,560 Speaker 2: and just kind of let you guys speak your peace 514 00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:44,000 Speaker 2: and say what's on your mind to the audience and 515 00:26:44,080 --> 00:26:44,920 Speaker 2: thank you so much. 516 00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:49,960 Speaker 4: You know. IPNO has freed or exonerated forty individuals who've 517 00:26:50,040 --> 00:26:53,000 Speaker 4: served over nine hundred and seventy five years in prison 518 00:26:53,040 --> 00:26:55,760 Speaker 4: for crimes they did not commit. And that is just 519 00:26:55,800 --> 00:26:59,520 Speaker 4: a drop in the bucket. You know, there's over five 520 00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:02,320 Speaker 4: thousand and men and women in Louisiana prison is doing 521 00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:05,280 Speaker 4: a life sentence without the possibility of parole. These men 522 00:27:05,320 --> 00:27:08,200 Speaker 4: and women are not coming home, just like you know, 523 00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:14,440 Speaker 4: Jerome and Jarvis before it got involved, and so there's 524 00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:19,159 Speaker 4: a lot to be done still, and I'm really I 525 00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:21,879 Speaker 4: feel really privileged for this opportunity to speak with Jerome, 526 00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:24,160 Speaker 4: to speak with Jarvis, to speak with Patrick and Burr 527 00:27:25,359 --> 00:27:27,280 Speaker 4: having this moment with them. So thank you. 528 00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:31,960 Speaker 5: And she said, I just appreciate everything, you know, even 529 00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:35,800 Speaker 5: the people that don't need you know, is appreciated, you know, 530 00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:39,119 Speaker 5: because like I said earlier, got a lot of people 531 00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:42,560 Speaker 5: that's not going to be in this shoe. A lot 532 00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:47,080 Speaker 5: of innocent people are gonna not make it because you know, 533 00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:50,680 Speaker 5: if knowingly have the resources to do so many cases 534 00:27:55,240 --> 00:27:58,480 Speaker 5: and hopefully before this is, you know, before I close 535 00:27:58,560 --> 00:28:02,240 Speaker 5: my eyes, they'll probably be bigger it is now. Because 536 00:28:02,280 --> 00:28:04,800 Speaker 5: I think everybody deserve a chain, like me and Jerome, 537 00:28:06,080 --> 00:28:08,080 Speaker 5: but unfortunately we know it don't work like that. 538 00:28:12,920 --> 00:28:15,960 Speaker 2: Thank you for listening to wrongful Conviction. I like to 539 00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:19,600 Speaker 2: thank our executive producers Jason Flem and Kevin Wadis. The 540 00:28:19,640 --> 00:28:22,800 Speaker 2: senior producer for this episode is Jackie Polly and our 541 00:28:22,840 --> 00:28:27,280 Speaker 2: producers are Lela Robinson, Conner Hall and Jeff Cliveborne. Our 542 00:28:27,400 --> 00:28:31,560 Speaker 2: editor is Roxander Gwedy and special thanks to Jillian Forstad 543 00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:35,080 Speaker 2: for help on this episode. The music and this production 544 00:28:35,200 --> 00:28:39,080 Speaker 2: is by three time OSCAR nominated composer Jay Ralph. Be 545 00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:42,680 Speaker 2: sure to follow us on Instagram at Wrongful Conviction, on 546 00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:47,440 Speaker 2: Facebook at Wrongful Conviction podcast, and on Twitter at wrong 547 00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:51,640 Speaker 2: Conviction as well as Lava for Good On all three platforms. 548 00:28:52,040 --> 00:28:55,200 Speaker 2: You can also follow me on Facebook and Instagram at 549 00:28:55,240 --> 00:28:58,360 Speaker 2: free Patrick Pursley at i Am Kit Culture two and 550 00:28:58,480 --> 00:29:02,520 Speaker 2: online at i Am Kit culture dot org. Wrongful Conviction 551 00:29:02,840 --> 00:29:06,720 Speaker 2: is a production of Lava for Good Podcasts and association 552 00:29:07,160 --> 00:29:17,240 Speaker 2: with Signal Company Number One. 553 00:29:17,560 --> 00:29:20,720 Speaker 1: On next week's guest hosted episode of Wrongful Conviction, Chris 554 00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:25,520 Speaker 1: Fabricat will be talking to Gilbert Pool about the nonsensical 555 00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:28,760 Speaker 1: bitemark evidence that landed Gilbert in prison for thirty two 556 00:29:28,840 --> 00:29:31,320 Speaker 1: years for a crime he had absolutely nothing to do with. 557 00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:31,720 Speaker 3: Now. 558 00:29:32,080 --> 00:29:35,280 Speaker 1: Chris is a personal hero of mine and we have 559 00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:39,480 Speaker 1: a deep connection because Chris is the man who kicked 560 00:29:39,520 --> 00:29:42,560 Speaker 1: off and occupies the Joe Flamm Chair at the Innocence 561 00:29:42,560 --> 00:29:45,480 Speaker 1: Project named after my dad, and his position as Strategic 562 00:29:45,560 --> 00:29:50,000 Speaker 1: Litigation Director is so critical to our work and our 563 00:29:50,120 --> 00:29:53,240 Speaker 1: mission at the Innocence Project, And of course what it 564 00:29:53,320 --> 00:29:57,800 Speaker 1: means is that Chris not only helps to exonerate innocent 565 00:29:57,880 --> 00:30:01,760 Speaker 1: people by shining a light on many of the junk 566 00:30:01,840 --> 00:30:06,920 Speaker 1: sciences that are routinely accepted as real science in courtrooms 567 00:30:06,920 --> 00:30:11,840 Speaker 1: across our country, but he then uses those examples of 568 00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:17,160 Speaker 1: these grotesque injustices to affect policy and change and to 569 00:30:17,240 --> 00:30:22,720 Speaker 1: change practices. Listen next Monday in the Wrongful Conviction podcast 570 00:30:22,760 --> 00:30:23,000 Speaker 1: feed