1 00:00:15,316 --> 00:00:22,116 Speaker 1: Pushkin. This episode discusses death by suicide. If you're suffering 2 00:00:22,196 --> 00:00:27,916 Speaker 1: emotional distress or having suicidal thoughts. Support is available, for example, 3 00:00:28,276 --> 00:00:36,156 Speaker 1: from the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline. Following the barbaric murder 4 00:00:36,156 --> 00:00:40,716 Speaker 1: of Mary Jane Kelly, the Ripper seems to disappear. The 5 00:00:40,796 --> 00:00:45,756 Speaker 1: weeks stretch into months, then years. When the dead bodies 6 00:00:45,756 --> 00:00:48,956 Speaker 1: of women are discovered in the locality and they are 7 00:00:48,996 --> 00:00:53,516 Speaker 1: found with dismal regularity, Police surgeons search them for any 8 00:00:53,596 --> 00:00:57,796 Speaker 1: knife wounds akin to the Ripper's trademark savagery. Might this 9 00:00:58,116 --> 00:01:03,436 Speaker 1: cut signify the Ripper's return? Might that slash? The medical 10 00:01:03,476 --> 00:01:08,156 Speaker 1: experts bicker and no consensus is reached. So what lies 11 00:01:08,196 --> 00:01:12,876 Speaker 1: behind the wholt the Ripper killings? Has he fled even emigrated? 12 00:01:13,316 --> 00:01:17,556 Speaker 1: Has he been imprisoned on another charge? In a house 13 00:01:17,676 --> 00:01:21,316 Speaker 1: close to where Kate Edo's perished, a doctor is signing 14 00:01:21,316 --> 00:01:26,356 Speaker 1: a certificate. Henry James Sacara judges its high time local 15 00:01:26,396 --> 00:01:31,716 Speaker 1: butcher Jacob Leviy be returned to a lunatic asylum. Levy 16 00:01:31,756 --> 00:01:35,396 Speaker 1: has been confined in such an institution before only coming 17 00:01:35,436 --> 00:01:37,956 Speaker 1: home to the family butcher shop in eighteen eighty seven, 18 00:01:39,356 --> 00:01:43,516 Speaker 1: but his continued erratic behavior is causing alarm. The man 19 00:01:43,636 --> 00:01:47,316 Speaker 1: raves and restlessly wanders the streets at night. Secara notes 20 00:01:47,996 --> 00:01:53,476 Speaker 1: he also talks of committing violent acts with the stroke 21 00:01:53,516 --> 00:01:57,276 Speaker 1: of a pen. The doctor consigns Levy to an asylum. 22 00:01:57,436 --> 00:02:02,476 Speaker 1: Has Secara in fact caged the Ripper. Some will make 23 00:02:02,596 --> 00:02:07,116 Speaker 1: that very case. The crimes of Jack the Ripper cast 24 00:02:07,236 --> 00:02:11,236 Speaker 1: long and disturbing shadows, setting in motion events that will 25 00:02:11,276 --> 00:02:15,116 Speaker 1: cause great anguish to the families of the dead and Sully, 26 00:02:15,196 --> 00:02:20,876 Speaker 1: the reputations of many perfectly innocent bystanders. The hurt, shame, 27 00:02:20,956 --> 00:02:26,596 Speaker 1: and suspicion doesn't end in the eighteen eighties. Worryingly, it 28 00:02:26,796 --> 00:02:34,596 Speaker 1: endures to this very day. I'm Hallie rubin Holt. You're 29 00:02:34,636 --> 00:02:39,516 Speaker 1: listening to Bad Women. The Ripper retold, a series about 30 00:02:39,516 --> 00:02:42,476 Speaker 1: the real lives of the women killed by Jack the Ripper, 31 00:02:43,076 --> 00:02:50,676 Speaker 1: and how we got their stories so wrong. One side, 32 00:02:50,716 --> 00:03:00,636 Speaker 1: money plenty, and friends too by the scar Then fortune 33 00:03:00,676 --> 00:03:27,396 Speaker 1: smiled upon me. I naw one, pass myde not convert. 34 00:03:36,716 --> 00:03:40,116 Speaker 1: The body of Annie Chapman, the coachman's wife cursed by 35 00:03:40,156 --> 00:03:43,876 Speaker 1: alcohol addiction, was discovered early on Saturday, the eighth of 36 00:03:43,876 --> 00:03:48,236 Speaker 1: September eighteen eighty eight. Perhaps a police constable was then 37 00:03:48,356 --> 00:03:52,196 Speaker 1: dispatched to inform her siblings. Perhaps he knocked at the 38 00:03:52,236 --> 00:03:56,116 Speaker 1: door as the Presbyterian teetotalers were preparing to leave for 39 00:03:56,156 --> 00:04:00,916 Speaker 1: Sunday services, or maybe the first the Smith familyhood of 40 00:04:00,916 --> 00:04:05,436 Speaker 1: Annie's fate came in the newspapers, which called their sister 41 00:04:05,476 --> 00:04:09,596 Speaker 1: a woman of low life. Early reports referred to her 42 00:04:09,636 --> 00:04:13,836 Speaker 1: as a poor creature. They spoke too of her drinking, 43 00:04:14,156 --> 00:04:17,556 Speaker 1: and while they admitted that dark Annie's primary occupation was 44 00:04:17,596 --> 00:04:20,916 Speaker 1: selling fabric chair coverings in the market, there is little 45 00:04:20,996 --> 00:04:23,876 Speaker 1: room for doubt that her earnings were eked out by 46 00:04:23,956 --> 00:04:27,756 Speaker 1: less creditable courses. The Daily News went on to say 47 00:04:27,836 --> 00:04:30,956 Speaker 1: that the corpse discovered in the grubby yard of Hanbury 48 00:04:30,996 --> 00:04:35,236 Speaker 1: Street had been mutilated in a manner too horrible for description, 49 00:04:36,236 --> 00:04:39,236 Speaker 1: but then went on to describe much of the horror anyway. 50 00:04:40,516 --> 00:04:43,916 Speaker 1: Annie's siblings couldn't bear to tell their elderly mother that 51 00:04:43,956 --> 00:04:47,596 Speaker 1: the daughter she had lost to alcoholism had now been killed, 52 00:04:48,436 --> 00:04:51,916 Speaker 1: or that her murder had been so gruesome. They also 53 00:04:52,036 --> 00:04:55,556 Speaker 1: smothered their shock and grief before the two children Annie 54 00:04:55,556 --> 00:04:58,756 Speaker 1: had left in their care. They would never know what 55 00:04:58,956 --> 00:05:03,676 Speaker 1: fate had befallen their mother a shroud of silence was 56 00:05:03,796 --> 00:05:07,596 Speaker 1: drawn over Annie Chapman's story. It would remain in place 57 00:05:08,076 --> 00:05:13,196 Speaker 1: for generations. I know that my dad didn't know about it. 58 00:05:13,276 --> 00:05:15,476 Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure my grandfather didn't know about it either. 59 00:05:16,036 --> 00:05:19,996 Speaker 1: This is Neil Smith, the great great grandson of Annie's 60 00:05:20,036 --> 00:05:24,196 Speaker 1: youngest brother, Fonton Smith. He only discovered his connection to 61 00:05:24,236 --> 00:05:27,276 Speaker 1: the White Chapel murders when he googled his family tree 62 00:05:27,636 --> 00:05:31,116 Speaker 1: and all sorts of Ripper links appeared. I'm fairly certain 63 00:05:31,156 --> 00:05:33,756 Speaker 1: that Fontin himself probably had not talked about it to 64 00:05:33,876 --> 00:05:37,876 Speaker 1: his direct family because of a probably the trauma and 65 00:05:37,916 --> 00:05:40,836 Speaker 1: the distress of having your sister murdered from one thing, 66 00:05:41,476 --> 00:05:44,996 Speaker 1: but also the stigma attached to the Ripper case. She 67 00:05:45,076 --> 00:05:48,476 Speaker 1: was an alcoholic, she had a broken marriage, and there 68 00:05:48,516 --> 00:05:50,836 Speaker 1: was the implication from the press and the police that 69 00:05:50,876 --> 00:05:53,076 Speaker 1: she was a sex worker, whether that was true or not. 70 00:05:53,236 --> 00:05:54,956 Speaker 1: And so all of these things would have been an 71 00:05:54,956 --> 00:05:58,156 Speaker 1: anathema to a Victorian, aspiring middle class man or I 72 00:05:58,276 --> 00:06:00,676 Speaker 1: thought so, I can understand completely. White would have been 73 00:06:00,716 --> 00:06:04,196 Speaker 1: hushed up. As the man of the family. The worst tasks, 74 00:06:04,556 --> 00:06:08,556 Speaker 1: those that required a public face, fell to Fonton, and 75 00:06:08,596 --> 00:06:12,276 Speaker 1: so it was he who identified the torn ragged body 76 00:06:12,316 --> 00:06:15,956 Speaker 1: of his elder sister, and stood before the coroner to 77 00:06:15,996 --> 00:06:19,836 Speaker 1: testify at her inquest. I last saw her alive about 78 00:06:19,876 --> 00:06:23,636 Speaker 1: a fortnight ago in Commercial Street, where I met her promiscuously. 79 00:06:24,116 --> 00:06:26,996 Speaker 1: I gave her two shillings. She did not say where 80 00:06:27,036 --> 00:06:29,756 Speaker 1: she was living nor what she was doing. She said 81 00:06:29,796 --> 00:06:33,756 Speaker 1: she wanted the money for a lodging. Fonton may well 82 00:06:33,756 --> 00:06:36,356 Speaker 1: have been the last of the siblings to see Annie alive, 83 00:06:36,836 --> 00:06:39,356 Speaker 1: and he may also have lent her money more often 84 00:06:39,356 --> 00:06:42,876 Speaker 1: than he cared to admit, either to the public or 85 00:06:42,916 --> 00:06:46,356 Speaker 1: to his own teetotaling family. When it came to helping 86 00:06:46,356 --> 00:06:49,196 Speaker 1: Annie out, he would likely have been a softer touch 87 00:06:49,236 --> 00:06:52,076 Speaker 1: than his siblings and goold for standing her a drink 88 00:06:52,156 --> 00:06:57,236 Speaker 1: or two. For like his sister, Fonton Smith was an alcoholic. 89 00:06:58,596 --> 00:07:02,636 Speaker 1: Fonton buckled under the horror of Annie's murder, and as 90 00:07:02,676 --> 00:07:05,596 Speaker 1: he fell, he grabbed for the one thing he knew 91 00:07:05,636 --> 00:07:10,156 Speaker 1: would provide him with immediate, though fleeting relief, the bottle. 92 00:07:11,396 --> 00:07:14,276 Speaker 1: Within a month of the harrowing ordeal of his sister's death, 93 00:07:14,716 --> 00:07:18,436 Speaker 1: he had suffered a breakdown after stealing money from his 94 00:07:18,516 --> 00:07:21,316 Speaker 1: employer to buy drinks. He lost his job as a 95 00:07:21,356 --> 00:07:26,356 Speaker 1: warehouse manager. Friends intervened and found him another position, but 96 00:07:26,476 --> 00:07:31,876 Speaker 1: Fonton's misery followed him there too. One day, unable to cope, 97 00:07:32,356 --> 00:07:35,756 Speaker 1: he filled himself with alcohol and his pockets with his 98 00:07:35,836 --> 00:07:40,636 Speaker 1: employer's funds. Then he abandoned his wife and two children 99 00:07:41,196 --> 00:07:45,436 Speaker 1: and disappeared. A week later, the family received a letter 100 00:07:45,516 --> 00:07:48,556 Speaker 1: from the city of Gloucester, where Funton had walked into 101 00:07:48,596 --> 00:07:52,276 Speaker 1: a police station and surrendered himself. At the foot of 102 00:07:52,316 --> 00:07:56,836 Speaker 1: his confession, he wrote, Oh, my darling wife, it's all 103 00:07:56,876 --> 00:08:00,316 Speaker 1: the cursed drink. For God's sake, don't let the children 104 00:08:00,396 --> 00:08:05,076 Speaker 1: touch it. He was taken back to London, found guilty, 105 00:08:05,116 --> 00:08:08,436 Speaker 1: and sentenced to three months hard labor at Millbank Prison, 106 00:08:09,156 --> 00:08:12,036 Speaker 1: with the chimes of nearby Big Ben marked out the 107 00:08:12,156 --> 00:08:17,956 Speaker 1: excruciating the slow passage of time for inmates. Upon his release, 108 00:08:18,316 --> 00:08:22,076 Speaker 1: Thornton resolved to start his life afresh, taking his wife 109 00:08:22,156 --> 00:08:26,116 Speaker 1: and children across the Atlantic to settle in the dust 110 00:08:26,396 --> 00:08:33,756 Speaker 1: and heat of Texas. Neil grew up learning the same 111 00:08:33,836 --> 00:08:36,396 Speaker 1: Ripper stories as the rest of us, the stories that 112 00:08:36,476 --> 00:08:39,796 Speaker 1: denigrate the women. He was amazed to uncover his links 113 00:08:39,836 --> 00:08:42,956 Speaker 1: to Annie and found the discovery caused a shift in 114 00:08:43,036 --> 00:08:46,596 Speaker 1: his thinking. Despite the fact that obviously I never met Annie, 115 00:08:46,676 --> 00:08:50,916 Speaker 1: She's still not a very distant relative. I definitely identified 116 00:08:51,036 --> 00:08:53,836 Speaker 1: with her and imagine that she might have felt to 117 00:08:53,956 --> 00:08:56,676 Speaker 1: some of the same things that I feel, which normally 118 00:08:56,836 --> 00:08:58,876 Speaker 1: you don't really think about that with somebody who lived 119 00:08:58,876 --> 00:09:01,476 Speaker 1: one hundred and fifty years ago. It certainly brought her 120 00:09:01,476 --> 00:09:04,116 Speaker 1: to life for me, and it did make me identify 121 00:09:04,156 --> 00:09:07,796 Speaker 1: with her and feel very sorry about what happened to her. 122 00:09:08,236 --> 00:09:11,676 Speaker 1: But Neil's empe heightened by his connection to Annie's story, 123 00:09:12,236 --> 00:09:16,156 Speaker 1: isn't shared by everyone. They'd fallen on hard times a 124 00:09:16,236 --> 00:09:18,996 Speaker 1: lot of time because of their own doing, not because 125 00:09:19,036 --> 00:09:22,956 Speaker 1: anybody had made them homeless, not because you know, anybody 126 00:09:22,956 --> 00:09:25,636 Speaker 1: had made them poor, not because anybody had made them 127 00:09:25,636 --> 00:09:28,436 Speaker 1: walk the streets at night. It was of their own doing. 128 00:09:29,116 --> 00:09:31,956 Speaker 1: I told Neil what former policeman Trevor Marriott had said 129 00:09:31,956 --> 00:09:34,556 Speaker 1: about Annie, that she was to blame for her own 130 00:09:34,636 --> 00:09:38,876 Speaker 1: poverty and homelessness, that she chosen the bottle over her family. 131 00:09:39,196 --> 00:09:41,756 Speaker 1: That's basically like the Victorian attitude if you like that 132 00:09:41,836 --> 00:09:45,876 Speaker 1: alcoholism and mental health problems were a weakness. Obviously she 133 00:09:45,916 --> 00:09:48,916 Speaker 1: didn't choose this way of life. Unfortunate, she had a 134 00:09:48,956 --> 00:09:52,756 Speaker 1: disease to have. The attitude is it's unsympathetic and it's 135 00:09:52,836 --> 00:09:57,356 Speaker 1: just wrong. Basically, I think Trevor's unsympathetic attitude has annoyed 136 00:09:57,436 --> 00:10:00,276 Speaker 1: many listeners. Some of you have even asked us not 137 00:10:00,316 --> 00:10:03,516 Speaker 1: to air any more of his views. But Trevor isn't 138 00:10:03,556 --> 00:10:07,476 Speaker 1: just a Victorian throwback or a modern outlier. There are 139 00:10:07,516 --> 00:10:11,476 Speaker 1: Trevors all around us, and we might all embody Trevor 140 00:10:11,516 --> 00:10:14,956 Speaker 1: at times too. We would like to assume that the 141 00:10:14,996 --> 00:10:17,556 Speaker 1: world is a just place, that you know, truly awful 142 00:10:17,636 --> 00:10:21,356 Speaker 1: bad things don't happen to good people, right. Laurie Santos 143 00:10:21,356 --> 00:10:24,556 Speaker 1: as a professor of psychology at Yale University, and she's 144 00:10:24,596 --> 00:10:28,356 Speaker 1: describing a common cognitive bias that explains why we often 145 00:10:28,436 --> 00:10:31,236 Speaker 1: find it so easy to feel detached from women like 146 00:10:31,356 --> 00:10:34,836 Speaker 1: Annie and also quick to shift the blame onto them. 147 00:10:35,076 --> 00:10:36,796 Speaker 1: We kind of want to believe that if we do 148 00:10:36,836 --> 00:10:38,996 Speaker 1: the right thing, good things will happen to us. But 149 00:10:39,076 --> 00:10:42,236 Speaker 1: it also leads to this insidious rationalization, which is like, 150 00:10:42,276 --> 00:10:44,956 Speaker 1: when you see a bad thing happen to a person, 151 00:10:45,316 --> 00:10:49,316 Speaker 1: your first instinct is to assume, well, maybe there was 152 00:10:49,356 --> 00:10:52,876 Speaker 1: some reason there, right, Maybe it just didn't happen by chance. 153 00:10:53,356 --> 00:10:56,676 Speaker 1: Laurie says a classic example of this is when someone 154 00:10:56,756 --> 00:10:59,236 Speaker 1: leaves their purse in their car and then that car 155 00:10:59,396 --> 00:11:02,796 Speaker 1: gets broken into. Your first instinct is would be like, well, 156 00:11:02,796 --> 00:11:04,836 Speaker 1: maybe it's kind of her fall that she left the 157 00:11:04,876 --> 00:11:07,276 Speaker 1: person the car to justify like why wasn't it your 158 00:11:07,276 --> 00:11:09,796 Speaker 1: a car that got broken into? Or a friend tells 159 00:11:09,796 --> 00:11:11,716 Speaker 1: you like, oh my gosh, my sister just found out 160 00:11:11,716 --> 00:11:15,156 Speaker 1: she has liver cancer. Your first instinct often isn't like empathy. 161 00:11:15,196 --> 00:11:18,156 Speaker 1: It's like, well, I wonder if she drank too much 162 00:11:18,276 --> 00:11:21,396 Speaker 1: or didn't take care of herself. According to Laurie, this 163 00:11:21,436 --> 00:11:24,196 Speaker 1: type of thinking emerges in children as young as four, 164 00:11:24,556 --> 00:11:27,276 Speaker 1: so it makes sense that it's still with us as adults. 165 00:11:27,756 --> 00:11:31,076 Speaker 1: It's a quick knee jerk response. If you tell little 166 00:11:31,116 --> 00:11:33,156 Speaker 1: kids kid versions of the stories we wouldn't talk about, 167 00:11:33,196 --> 00:11:35,836 Speaker 1: you know, Jack the Ripburn serial killer murders to little kids. 168 00:11:35,876 --> 00:11:37,956 Speaker 1: But simple things like Joe was walking to school and 169 00:11:37,996 --> 00:11:40,276 Speaker 1: he got pooped on by a bird, the kids will 170 00:11:40,316 --> 00:11:43,276 Speaker 1: start justifying, well, you know, maybe Joe did something wrong 171 00:11:43,396 --> 00:11:46,196 Speaker 1: or he's a bad person. Right, he can't just be unlucky. 172 00:11:46,316 --> 00:11:48,476 Speaker 1: There has to be some reason for this, right, Our 173 00:11:48,516 --> 00:11:51,716 Speaker 1: brains start unconsciously looking for evidence that there might be 174 00:11:52,076 --> 00:11:55,236 Speaker 1: some reason in there that it's a justice or perhaps 175 00:11:55,276 --> 00:11:58,956 Speaker 1: the Smith's siblings did just this in September eighteen eighty 176 00:11:58,956 --> 00:12:03,116 Speaker 1: eight and convinced themselves that Annie the drinker, Annie the 177 00:12:03,236 --> 00:12:07,956 Speaker 1: arrant mother, Annie the lowlife, had somehow invited her own murder. 178 00:12:09,436 --> 00:12:13,356 Speaker 1: Putting this cognitive bias under the microscope. Stopping to think 179 00:12:13,396 --> 00:12:18,636 Speaker 1: that victims might actually be blameless is uncomfortable. As a woman. 180 00:12:18,676 --> 00:12:19,996 Speaker 1: It's hard for me to believe that, you know, I 181 00:12:20,036 --> 00:12:22,036 Speaker 1: could just be the victim of violence. So I have 182 00:12:22,036 --> 00:12:23,956 Speaker 1: to say, well, there must be something that that other 183 00:12:23,996 --> 00:12:26,236 Speaker 1: woman who's a victim of violence did to deserve it. 184 00:12:26,276 --> 00:12:28,556 Speaker 1: You know, that protects me. That's a whole host of 185 00:12:28,596 --> 00:12:32,436 Speaker 1: mental gymnastics. That's me rationalizing, but it has this benefit, 186 00:12:32,516 --> 00:12:35,316 Speaker 1: which is it protects me from a really scary belief. 187 00:12:35,556 --> 00:12:38,476 Speaker 1: Maybe there's no reason that I'm not the victim of violence. 188 00:12:38,516 --> 00:12:40,836 Speaker 1: Maybe there's no reason that I happen to, you know, 189 00:12:40,876 --> 00:12:42,236 Speaker 1: not grow up as poor as some of the women 190 00:12:42,276 --> 00:12:43,836 Speaker 1: you're talking about, or poor as some of the people 191 00:12:43,836 --> 00:12:45,956 Speaker 1: in the modern day. Like it's just an accident. I 192 00:12:45,956 --> 00:12:48,956 Speaker 1: don't really deserve it. It's just kind of unfair. There 193 00:12:48,956 --> 00:12:51,556 Speaker 1: are many other figures caught up in the tangled web 194 00:12:51,556 --> 00:12:54,996 Speaker 1: of the Ripper myth who deserve our empathy. Yeah, I mean, 195 00:12:55,036 --> 00:12:58,396 Speaker 1: I'm so very compelled by the story, unfascinated, and it's 196 00:12:58,436 --> 00:13:01,436 Speaker 1: just it's a very sad and gut wrenching story. Really. 197 00:13:01,916 --> 00:13:05,396 Speaker 1: Hannah Jones is the great great granddaughter of Jacob Leave. 198 00:13:05,956 --> 00:13:08,876 Speaker 1: Some people have said Jacob was the Ripper. He worked 199 00:13:08,876 --> 00:13:12,236 Speaker 1: near Whitechapel as a butcher, and one expert witness thought 200 00:13:12,236 --> 00:13:15,556 Speaker 1: the Ripper displayed a butcher's skill with a knife. The 201 00:13:15,676 --> 00:13:19,676 Speaker 1: Ripper was also often described as a madman, and Jacob 202 00:13:19,756 --> 00:13:23,276 Speaker 1: had experienced mental health problems and spent time in asylums. 203 00:13:24,076 --> 00:13:26,876 Speaker 1: In the notes from his first admission in eighteen eighty six, 204 00:13:26,956 --> 00:13:29,676 Speaker 1: there is a brief mention of violent behavior. In the 205 00:13:29,756 --> 00:13:32,716 Speaker 1: notes from his second admission in eighteen ninety, it says 206 00:13:32,756 --> 00:13:35,756 Speaker 1: that he feels that if he is not restrained, he'll 207 00:13:35,756 --> 00:13:39,316 Speaker 1: do some violence to someone. Also that he feels compelled 208 00:13:39,356 --> 00:13:42,116 Speaker 1: to do act's contrary to the dictates of his conscience 209 00:13:42,236 --> 00:13:45,316 Speaker 1: by a power he cannot withstand. Basically, those are the 210 00:13:45,316 --> 00:13:49,956 Speaker 1: comments which excite ripparologists. The theory cobbled together from these 211 00:13:49,996 --> 00:13:54,156 Speaker 1: scant notes is that Jacob contracted syphilis as the consequence 212 00:13:54,156 --> 00:13:58,036 Speaker 1: of a moral transgression, that is, after sex with a 213 00:13:58,156 --> 00:14:02,396 Speaker 1: prostitute afflicted with grievous symptoms. When the disease began to 214 00:14:02,436 --> 00:14:06,036 Speaker 1: attack his brain, he wrotted bloody vengeance on any woman 215 00:14:06,116 --> 00:14:10,996 Speaker 1: he believed to be soliciting in his neighborhood. Syphilis retribution 216 00:14:11,076 --> 00:14:15,356 Speaker 1: theories like this are common because they're convenient. They satisfy 217 00:14:15,476 --> 00:14:18,436 Speaker 1: that cognitive buy as we have. They let us relax 218 00:14:18,476 --> 00:14:22,476 Speaker 1: into thinking that the women determine their own downfalls. They 219 00:14:22,556 --> 00:14:26,676 Speaker 1: also bring some order to what are otherwise senseless crimes. 220 00:14:27,596 --> 00:14:30,836 Speaker 1: Of course, it all relies on the women being prostitutes 221 00:14:31,076 --> 00:14:34,796 Speaker 1: and Jacob being a syphilis ravaged monster, and there's no 222 00:14:34,876 --> 00:14:39,276 Speaker 1: shortage of books, web pages, and even video games portraying Jacob. 223 00:14:39,356 --> 00:14:43,836 Speaker 1: Is just that Hannah has stumbled across several horrific depictions, 224 00:14:44,356 --> 00:14:47,156 Speaker 1: but has kept them from her relatives. I think if 225 00:14:47,196 --> 00:14:49,796 Speaker 1: my grandfather were to see that, he would be quite upset, 226 00:14:50,356 --> 00:14:52,956 Speaker 1: and he has every right to be upset. Once you 227 00:14:53,036 --> 00:14:56,276 Speaker 1: dig deeper into the Jewish Butcher's life and approach his 228 00:14:56,396 --> 00:15:00,156 Speaker 1: plight with empathy, the true and more tragic story of 229 00:15:00,236 --> 00:15:16,676 Speaker 1: Jacob Levee emerges more after this short break. Jacob Levy 230 00:15:16,716 --> 00:15:20,636 Speaker 1: was born in East London in eighteen fifty six. At fifteen, 231 00:15:20,756 --> 00:15:23,396 Speaker 1: he was recorded on the census as a butcher, a 232 00:15:23,516 --> 00:15:26,476 Speaker 1: family trade he likely began learning at around the age 233 00:15:26,476 --> 00:15:30,276 Speaker 1: of twelve or thirteen. Jews in London were a small 234 00:15:30,316 --> 00:15:36,116 Speaker 1: minority and subject to wider society's deep suspicion. As Jacob 235 00:15:36,156 --> 00:15:39,916 Speaker 1: grew into a young man, the influx of Eastern European 236 00:15:40,036 --> 00:15:44,636 Speaker 1: Jews fleeing murder and persecution and then settling around Whitechapel 237 00:15:45,196 --> 00:15:49,636 Speaker 1: became something of a national panic. The foreign Jews of 238 00:15:49,756 --> 00:15:53,476 Speaker 1: no nationality whatever are becoming a pest and a menace 239 00:15:53,596 --> 00:15:57,236 Speaker 1: to the poor, native borne Eastender. One visitor to the 240 00:15:57,276 --> 00:16:01,236 Speaker 1: streets around Jacob's home declared there was nothing English about 241 00:16:01,236 --> 00:16:07,236 Speaker 1: the place, only foreign faces, foreign shops, foreign talk, against 242 00:16:07,236 --> 00:16:12,276 Speaker 1: a backdrop of vast continental upheaval domestic calamity struck. The 243 00:16:12,396 --> 00:16:17,116 Speaker 1: Levy family deceased had bet heavily on the races, and 244 00:16:17,276 --> 00:16:19,316 Speaker 1: on the arrival of the news of the result, he 245 00:16:19,356 --> 00:16:23,116 Speaker 1: appeared very desponding. A doctor was called, but life had 246 00:16:23,116 --> 00:16:28,036 Speaker 1: been extinct some time. Jacob's older brother, Abraham, took his 247 00:16:28,116 --> 00:16:32,076 Speaker 1: own life, possibly because of a debt incurred on Derby Day, 248 00:16:32,516 --> 00:16:35,956 Speaker 1: a highlight of the racing calendar and attempting focus for 249 00:16:36,076 --> 00:16:40,476 Speaker 1: expert and novice gamblers alike. It was young Jacob who 250 00:16:40,556 --> 00:16:44,116 Speaker 1: forced open his brother's locked door and discovered the body. 251 00:16:49,236 --> 00:16:53,116 Speaker 1: Jacob soon married his close neighbor Sarah, and by eighteen 252 00:16:53,156 --> 00:16:56,156 Speaker 1: eighty one they had moved into rooms in a house nearby, 253 00:16:56,636 --> 00:16:59,796 Speaker 1: with their two children and a servant girl who likely 254 00:16:59,836 --> 00:17:02,236 Speaker 1: lived in to cater to their family on the Sabbath 255 00:17:02,556 --> 00:17:07,236 Speaker 1: when their Jewish faith forbade them from working. Jacob eventually 256 00:17:07,276 --> 00:17:10,276 Speaker 1: took the helm of his aunt's butchering business, and he 257 00:17:10,476 --> 00:17:14,516 Speaker 1: and Sarah had two more children, but misfortune loomed for 258 00:17:14,596 --> 00:17:19,716 Speaker 1: the growing young family. In March eighteen eighty six, Jacob 259 00:17:19,796 --> 00:17:22,236 Speaker 1: was arrested for the theft of a side of beef 260 00:17:22,276 --> 00:17:25,556 Speaker 1: from a neighboring butcher and tried at the Old Bailey, 261 00:17:26,076 --> 00:17:28,916 Speaker 1: a famous court was some of England's most serious and 262 00:17:29,036 --> 00:17:33,516 Speaker 1: notorious cases are heard. Jacob seems to have entered into 263 00:17:33,636 --> 00:17:39,156 Speaker 1: odd early morning negotiations with his neighbor's employees, encouraging them 264 00:17:39,236 --> 00:17:43,036 Speaker 1: to pass him a fourteen pound piece of meat. As 265 00:17:43,036 --> 00:17:46,436 Speaker 1: a policeman watched from across the road. A young shopboy 266 00:17:46,556 --> 00:17:50,156 Speaker 1: handed over the contraband I ran into leave his shop, 267 00:17:50,556 --> 00:17:52,396 Speaker 1: caught hold of him with the meat in his hand, 268 00:17:52,436 --> 00:17:54,236 Speaker 1: and asked what he was going to do with it. 269 00:17:54,676 --> 00:17:57,076 Speaker 1: He said, we are only having a lark. I am 270 00:17:57,076 --> 00:17:59,516 Speaker 1: going to weigh it. I said, I did not believe it, 271 00:17:59,596 --> 00:18:02,276 Speaker 1: and then took him to the station, where he repeated 272 00:18:02,316 --> 00:18:06,436 Speaker 1: that it was only a lark. In court, the neighbor 273 00:18:06,476 --> 00:18:10,156 Speaker 1: seemed puzzled by the theft. It was clearly no practical joke. 274 00:18:10,596 --> 00:18:14,156 Speaker 1: He wasn't on joking terms with Jacob, but nor were 275 00:18:14,156 --> 00:18:17,716 Speaker 1: they rivals. The value of the meat was paltry, and 276 00:18:17,916 --> 00:18:21,196 Speaker 1: Jacob was by no means poor, Nor could he quite 277 00:18:21,196 --> 00:18:24,996 Speaker 1: believe a fellow butcher would stoop to common theft, saying 278 00:18:24,996 --> 00:18:27,716 Speaker 1: that the Jewish authorities would not give a man a 279 00:18:27,836 --> 00:18:32,316 Speaker 1: license unless he had an excellent character. The judge did 280 00:18:32,356 --> 00:18:35,356 Speaker 1: indeed direct the jury that Jacob Leavy was of good character, 281 00:18:36,036 --> 00:18:39,196 Speaker 1: but the butcher was found guilty and the jurors did 282 00:18:39,276 --> 00:18:43,116 Speaker 1: not recommend he be shown mercy. He was sentenced to 283 00:18:43,156 --> 00:18:47,476 Speaker 1: twelve months hard labor, but just weeks after his arrival, 284 00:18:47,516 --> 00:18:51,516 Speaker 1: in prison, the authorities began to suspect a root cause 285 00:18:51,636 --> 00:18:55,836 Speaker 1: for his peculiar foray into petty crime. He is in 286 00:18:55,876 --> 00:19:01,116 Speaker 1: a state of melancholia cries without adequate cause. Jacob was 287 00:19:01,116 --> 00:19:05,596 Speaker 1: transferred to a lunatic asylum. His admissions file details his 288 00:19:05,716 --> 00:19:09,596 Speaker 1: mental decline. He is very despondent from the fact that 289 00:19:09,676 --> 00:19:13,836 Speaker 1: he attempted suicide at jail and that a brother committed suicide, 290 00:19:13,916 --> 00:19:17,756 Speaker 1: and insanity is hereditary in his family. I consider him 291 00:19:17,796 --> 00:19:24,236 Speaker 1: suicidal and insane, and yet his health appears to have 292 00:19:24,356 --> 00:19:28,036 Speaker 1: quickly improved. In eighteen eighty seven, he was deemed to 293 00:19:28,036 --> 00:19:31,516 Speaker 1: be of sound mind and fit for discharge. He returned 294 00:19:31,556 --> 00:19:35,036 Speaker 1: to his wife an expanding family. Sarah and Jacob would 295 00:19:35,036 --> 00:19:39,316 Speaker 1: have eight children in total, but Jacob's mental health continued 296 00:19:39,356 --> 00:19:44,476 Speaker 1: to decline, with devastating consequences. Sarah struggled to keep the 297 00:19:44,476 --> 00:19:48,556 Speaker 1: butchers shop afloat, lamenting that Jacob was ruining the business. 298 00:19:49,156 --> 00:19:53,436 Speaker 1: He couldn't be trusted with money, ordered goods indiscriminately, and 299 00:19:53,516 --> 00:19:59,036 Speaker 1: continued to steal other people's wares too. More worryingly, he 300 00:19:59,156 --> 00:20:03,676 Speaker 1: often had difficulties sleeping and mysteriously wandered off for hours 301 00:20:03,716 --> 00:20:07,356 Speaker 1: at a time. He raved and feared that someone was 302 00:20:07,396 --> 00:20:13,996 Speaker 1: trying to do him harm. Such symptoms weren't uncommon among 303 00:20:14,036 --> 00:20:17,356 Speaker 1: men of Jacob's age and social class, says Jennifer Wallace, 304 00:20:17,596 --> 00:20:21,276 Speaker 1: an expert on the history of psychiatry at Imperial College London. 305 00:20:21,716 --> 00:20:24,916 Speaker 1: There was a sense that insanity, as they termed it, 306 00:20:25,036 --> 00:20:28,796 Speaker 1: was increasing at the time, and there were various suggestions 307 00:20:28,836 --> 00:20:33,116 Speaker 1: put forward for that, from people having to adjust to 308 00:20:33,556 --> 00:20:36,396 Speaker 1: the new type of life of the late nineteenth century, 309 00:20:36,436 --> 00:20:39,356 Speaker 1: where you've got lots of developments, you've got new technologies, 310 00:20:39,476 --> 00:20:42,836 Speaker 1: lots of exciting things that could also be very disruptive 311 00:20:42,956 --> 00:20:47,036 Speaker 1: and new and anxiety making to people. The Victorians had 312 00:20:47,116 --> 00:20:51,116 Speaker 1: massively expanded the provision of care for those they termed lunatics, 313 00:20:51,436 --> 00:20:53,836 Speaker 1: but families were reluctant to see the head of a 314 00:20:53,916 --> 00:20:57,036 Speaker 1: household entered these new asylums if it could at all 315 00:20:57,156 --> 00:21:00,876 Speaker 1: be delayed. There was the stigma of mental illness, but 316 00:21:01,036 --> 00:21:05,356 Speaker 1: also the practicalities of losing a male breadwinner. Sarah Levy 317 00:21:05,476 --> 00:21:08,476 Speaker 1: was no exception. She seems to have kept Jacob at 318 00:21:08,476 --> 00:21:13,196 Speaker 1: home during his erratic behavior with little or no medical support. 319 00:21:13,836 --> 00:21:16,556 Speaker 1: Perhaps she hoped that the husband and provider of old 320 00:21:16,676 --> 00:21:19,796 Speaker 1: would be surface. I think it would be very difficult. 321 00:21:19,876 --> 00:21:22,676 Speaker 1: And you get a real sense of this sometimes when 322 00:21:22,676 --> 00:21:25,996 Speaker 1: you read the statements of families and friends where they 323 00:21:26,036 --> 00:21:29,956 Speaker 1: talk about things like the family business being very badly 324 00:21:29,996 --> 00:21:33,396 Speaker 1: affected because a man who runs the business, for instance, 325 00:21:33,516 --> 00:21:38,516 Speaker 1: he's buying hundreds and hundreds of creates of something way 326 00:21:38,556 --> 00:21:42,236 Speaker 1: more than they need, and he's overspent. He's put the 327 00:21:42,236 --> 00:21:46,876 Speaker 1: family into financial trouble. They also might be quite unpredictable, 328 00:21:47,356 --> 00:21:51,556 Speaker 1: so they might wander, they might do unusual things like 329 00:21:51,716 --> 00:21:54,796 Speaker 1: go into the street and start to get undressed. So 330 00:21:54,836 --> 00:21:58,516 Speaker 1: there is an element of public disorder there as well, 331 00:21:58,556 --> 00:22:01,516 Speaker 1: and a concern about what other people are seeing. In 332 00:22:01,556 --> 00:22:05,556 Speaker 1: the summer of eighteen ninety, Sarah Levy perhaps bowed to 333 00:22:05,596 --> 00:22:10,516 Speaker 1: the inevitable. Jacob's behavior was apparently too much to bear, 334 00:22:11,036 --> 00:22:15,156 Speaker 1: and a doctor was called, I the undersigned Henry James 335 00:22:15,156 --> 00:22:18,956 Speaker 1: Sequira to hear my certify. I personally examined Jacob Leavy 336 00:22:19,196 --> 00:22:21,116 Speaker 1: and came to the conclusion that he is a person 337 00:22:21,156 --> 00:22:23,916 Speaker 1: of unsound mind and a proper person to be taken 338 00:22:23,996 --> 00:22:28,316 Speaker 1: charge of and attained under care and treatment. Jacob was 339 00:22:28,396 --> 00:22:33,236 Speaker 1: returned to an asylum. Facts indicating insanity observed by myself 340 00:22:33,476 --> 00:22:37,396 Speaker 1: at the time of examination. Known patient several years formally 341 00:22:37,476 --> 00:22:41,476 Speaker 1: shrewd businessman, now quite incapable of carrying on same, giving 342 00:22:41,476 --> 00:22:44,596 Speaker 1: wrong change and money back for things bought. Says he 343 00:22:44,636 --> 00:22:48,276 Speaker 1: feels as something within him impelling him to take everything 344 00:22:48,276 --> 00:22:51,196 Speaker 1: he sees, feels that if he is not restrained, he 345 00:22:51,236 --> 00:22:55,836 Speaker 1: will do some violence to someone complains of hearing strange noises. 346 00:22:58,116 --> 00:23:02,316 Speaker 1: The doctors treating Jacob eventually concluded that he was suffering 347 00:23:02,356 --> 00:23:06,356 Speaker 1: from a condition they called general paralysis of the insane. 348 00:23:06,916 --> 00:23:10,676 Speaker 1: The classic general paralytic patient and tended to be somebody 349 00:23:10,796 --> 00:23:15,156 Speaker 1: of about Jacob's age, in their mid thirties, who had 350 00:23:15,156 --> 00:23:18,676 Speaker 1: been perhaps declining for a little while, and then seemed 351 00:23:18,716 --> 00:23:22,476 Speaker 1: to have had a crisis, often unable to keep working, 352 00:23:22,596 --> 00:23:25,316 Speaker 1: and that tended to be the event that made men 353 00:23:25,596 --> 00:23:27,436 Speaker 1: end up in the asylum when they could no longer 354 00:23:27,476 --> 00:23:31,756 Speaker 1: provide for their families. At the time, general paralysis was 355 00:23:32,116 --> 00:23:35,196 Speaker 1: for the most part believed to be linked to advanced 356 00:23:35,316 --> 00:23:39,956 Speaker 1: vinereal disease, so the final stage of untreated syphilis, when 357 00:23:40,076 --> 00:23:43,276 Speaker 1: it has lain dormant for many years and then spread 358 00:23:43,276 --> 00:23:47,436 Speaker 1: to the brain. Patients experienced a range of symptoms as 359 00:23:47,476 --> 00:23:51,996 Speaker 1: the infection attacked the nervous system. Elizabeth Stride, for example, 360 00:23:52,356 --> 00:23:54,756 Speaker 1: may have begun to suffer from seizures towards the end 361 00:23:54,796 --> 00:23:58,436 Speaker 1: of her life, but sufferers might see any number of 362 00:23:58,556 --> 00:24:02,956 Speaker 1: upsetting and debilitating effects. So it would have things like 363 00:24:03,196 --> 00:24:06,276 Speaker 1: an unusual walk, people would stagger, they would look as 364 00:24:06,316 --> 00:24:10,116 Speaker 1: though they were drunk. Perhaps they would be unable to 365 00:24:10,156 --> 00:24:13,956 Speaker 1: do things like button their shirt, so those finer movements 366 00:24:13,956 --> 00:24:16,796 Speaker 1: of the fingers would often start to disappear. They would 367 00:24:16,836 --> 00:24:21,476 Speaker 1: also have facial issues that would make the diagnosis perhaps 368 00:24:21,556 --> 00:24:24,396 Speaker 1: quite obvious to some doctors, where they was said to 369 00:24:24,436 --> 00:24:28,196 Speaker 1: be an unusual mask like appearance to the face and 370 00:24:28,276 --> 00:24:33,156 Speaker 1: perhaps a droopiness. Perhaps also unequal sized pupils as well, 371 00:24:33,316 --> 00:24:37,276 Speaker 1: But the mental symptoms were equally varied but also said 372 00:24:37,316 --> 00:24:40,716 Speaker 1: to be quite specific. So one of the classic signs 373 00:24:40,716 --> 00:24:44,556 Speaker 1: of general paralysis was the so called delusions of grandeur, 374 00:24:44,716 --> 00:24:47,556 Speaker 1: where patients thought that they had a lot of money, 375 00:24:47,796 --> 00:24:51,596 Speaker 1: are they knew somebody very famous, and this would often 376 00:24:51,716 --> 00:24:53,916 Speaker 1: get them into trouble, and this might be the thing 377 00:24:53,956 --> 00:24:56,436 Speaker 1: that caused them to be, for instance, picked up by 378 00:24:56,436 --> 00:24:58,876 Speaker 1: the police and sent to the asylum in the first place. 379 00:24:59,876 --> 00:25:04,356 Speaker 1: Many of Jacob's symptoms correspond to the disorder, but Jennifer 380 00:25:04,476 --> 00:25:08,396 Speaker 1: is wary of this diagnosis. The fact that alo symptoms 381 00:25:08,476 --> 00:25:13,556 Speaker 1: exist and tally with general paralysis isn't enough to say 382 00:25:13,596 --> 00:25:17,196 Speaker 1: that this actually was general paralysis. Doctors at the time 383 00:25:17,356 --> 00:25:23,196 Speaker 1: were really debating whether general paralysis was being conflated with 384 00:25:23,236 --> 00:25:28,196 Speaker 1: other conditions, particularly with things like brain tumors and with alcoholism, 385 00:25:28,396 --> 00:25:31,876 Speaker 1: and even some more unusual things like lead poisoning. So 386 00:25:32,036 --> 00:25:34,876 Speaker 1: it was something that because of its wide range of symptoms, 387 00:25:35,076 --> 00:25:37,796 Speaker 1: it looked like a lot of things, and a lot 388 00:25:37,836 --> 00:25:41,076 Speaker 1: of other things looked like it as well. Jacob had 389 00:25:41,116 --> 00:25:45,316 Speaker 1: been treated and discharged from an asylum once before. Sarah 390 00:25:45,396 --> 00:25:47,796 Speaker 1: must have hoped that he might return to the butcher 391 00:25:47,876 --> 00:25:54,156 Speaker 1: shop cured of his ranting, erratic ways and worrying nocturnal wanderings. 392 00:25:54,156 --> 00:26:01,996 Speaker 1: She was to be cruelly disappointed. The ripper be told 393 00:26:02,236 --> 00:26:10,396 Speaker 1: will return shortly. When Jacob arrived at Stone House, an 394 00:26:10,396 --> 00:26:13,276 Speaker 1: asylum recently built in the style of a Tudor palace 395 00:26:13,356 --> 00:26:17,436 Speaker 1: on the outskirts of London, he was at first well behaved. 396 00:26:18,636 --> 00:26:22,876 Speaker 1: He is loquacious and apparently does not feel his position 397 00:26:22,916 --> 00:26:26,636 Speaker 1: at all. There is a nonchalance in his manner which 398 00:26:26,676 --> 00:26:31,116 Speaker 1: is most unfitted today's condition. He suffered some initial bouts 399 00:26:31,156 --> 00:26:36,316 Speaker 1: of insomnia, but these subsided, and he also demonstrated an appetite. 400 00:26:36,836 --> 00:26:41,196 Speaker 1: In fact, he was said to eat with keen relish. 401 00:26:41,396 --> 00:26:45,236 Speaker 1: The daily life of a patients if they were well 402 00:26:45,396 --> 00:26:48,556 Speaker 1: enough to get out of bed, and they were not 403 00:26:48,876 --> 00:26:51,796 Speaker 1: in a state where they had been secluded for any reason, 404 00:26:52,036 --> 00:26:55,476 Speaker 1: they would probably find themselves sitting in a day room, 405 00:26:55,716 --> 00:26:59,796 Speaker 1: which might be quite sparse in terms of its entertainments, 406 00:27:00,076 --> 00:27:02,516 Speaker 1: or they might have access to things like a library, 407 00:27:02,636 --> 00:27:06,476 Speaker 1: so they would have games, books, the chance to walk 408 00:27:06,516 --> 00:27:10,196 Speaker 1: in the grounds outside. Perhaps many asylums also put on 409 00:27:10,396 --> 00:27:14,316 Speaker 1: entertainments like plays. There were also a few football teams 410 00:27:14,396 --> 00:27:18,356 Speaker 1: and sports teams in asylums. Jacob himself seemed to have 411 00:27:18,396 --> 00:27:21,836 Speaker 1: been active. The hospital had its own farm and he 412 00:27:21,916 --> 00:27:25,836 Speaker 1: worked here daily. At one point Sarah made the journey 413 00:27:25,916 --> 00:27:29,676 Speaker 1: out along the Thames to visit him. By this point, 414 00:27:29,716 --> 00:27:33,396 Speaker 1: we certainly shouldn't necessarily think of the asylum in terms 415 00:27:33,476 --> 00:27:38,596 Speaker 1: of this very gothic, dark, dirty institution where the flaws 416 00:27:38,596 --> 00:27:42,436 Speaker 1: are covered in straw. These are quite clinical environments, and 417 00:27:42,556 --> 00:27:46,596 Speaker 1: many of the asylums are very self consciously scientific, where 418 00:27:46,636 --> 00:27:49,476 Speaker 1: they are aware of things like the need to keep 419 00:27:49,556 --> 00:27:53,156 Speaker 1: places disinfected. But of course you would have patients who 420 00:27:53,236 --> 00:27:57,876 Speaker 1: might have problems like incontinents or self harm that would 421 00:27:58,116 --> 00:28:02,196 Speaker 1: lead to hygiene issues, to infection issues that would need 422 00:28:02,236 --> 00:28:05,516 Speaker 1: to be taken into account as well. So for all 423 00:28:05,556 --> 00:28:09,716 Speaker 1: their scientific ambition, asylums like the one would Jacob was confined, 424 00:28:09,996 --> 00:28:14,316 Speaker 1: could still be grim. The wards might be raucous and disorderly, 425 00:28:14,596 --> 00:28:19,036 Speaker 1: and patients weren't necessarily separated by illness type. There were 426 00:28:19,156 --> 00:28:22,756 Speaker 1: opportunities to mix and form friendships, but there would also 427 00:28:22,836 --> 00:28:26,276 Speaker 1: be some patients who were very ill, very alone in 428 00:28:26,316 --> 00:28:30,276 Speaker 1: those places. Life for those with general paralysis could be 429 00:28:30,316 --> 00:28:34,476 Speaker 1: particularly bleak. If you were somebody who was in a 430 00:28:34,636 --> 00:28:38,596 Speaker 1: rather reduced and bad state, you would probably be confined 431 00:28:38,636 --> 00:28:41,836 Speaker 1: to bed, you would be too frail, You would probably 432 00:28:41,916 --> 00:28:45,716 Speaker 1: be largely left alone for most of the day on 433 00:28:45,796 --> 00:28:49,076 Speaker 1: award with other people who were in a similar very 434 00:28:49,076 --> 00:28:53,476 Speaker 1: sick condition. Although Jacob was said to be well behaved, 435 00:28:53,996 --> 00:28:58,876 Speaker 1: his delusions as to his own importance still continued, such 436 00:28:58,956 --> 00:29:02,316 Speaker 1: as it being in his power to give great grants 437 00:29:02,356 --> 00:29:06,996 Speaker 1: of land and money. Jacob started suffering attacks of giddiness 438 00:29:07,076 --> 00:29:10,796 Speaker 1: and faintness, and would dissolve in tears, though he could 439 00:29:10,836 --> 00:29:14,596 Speaker 1: give no reason for his crying. He then suffered seizures. 440 00:29:15,356 --> 00:29:19,076 Speaker 1: Eventually he could no longer dress or undress himself, and 441 00:29:19,156 --> 00:29:22,436 Speaker 1: he had to be spoon fed. He also fell and 442 00:29:22,476 --> 00:29:25,996 Speaker 1: suffered bruising, though he fiercely resisted the doctors when they 443 00:29:26,036 --> 00:29:30,636 Speaker 1: tried to examine him further. And then on July twenty ninth, 444 00:29:30,876 --> 00:29:34,996 Speaker 1: eighteen ninety one, his pulse cannot be counted at wrist. 445 00:29:35,556 --> 00:29:43,876 Speaker 1: He gradually sank and died at seven fifty two pm. 446 00:29:44,076 --> 00:29:46,996 Speaker 1: Sarah was now left alone in the struggle to support 447 00:29:47,036 --> 00:29:51,236 Speaker 1: their eight children. Hannah Jones marvels at her great great 448 00:29:51,276 --> 00:29:55,956 Speaker 1: grandmother's fortitude. She would go to some department stores in 449 00:29:56,516 --> 00:29:59,516 Speaker 1: central London and she would pick up offcuts of dress 450 00:29:59,596 --> 00:30:01,956 Speaker 1: materials and then she would go and sell them in 451 00:30:01,956 --> 00:30:04,796 Speaker 1: the local market. I believe actually she actually tried to 452 00:30:04,876 --> 00:30:07,436 Speaker 1: keep the butchery business going for some time while Jacob 453 00:30:07,516 --> 00:30:09,556 Speaker 1: was ill, because on one of the sense says she's 454 00:30:09,596 --> 00:30:12,196 Speaker 1: listed as a butcher. So it was very hard. I mean, 455 00:30:12,396 --> 00:30:14,796 Speaker 1: her son, my great grandfather, I know, he was in 456 00:30:14,796 --> 00:30:17,596 Speaker 1: a children's time for a little while during his childhood, 457 00:30:18,396 --> 00:30:20,916 Speaker 1: so yeah, and there were times so I guess she 458 00:30:21,276 --> 00:30:25,396 Speaker 1: couldn't plug the gaps, but she did in the end, 459 00:30:25,476 --> 00:30:29,236 Speaker 1: and most of them grew up and had big families 460 00:30:29,236 --> 00:30:32,876 Speaker 1: at their own. The timeline for Jacob's confinement and death 461 00:30:33,276 --> 00:30:36,596 Speaker 1: very roughly coincide with the end of the Whitechapel murders, 462 00:30:37,156 --> 00:30:40,076 Speaker 1: and his mental state in eighteen eighty eight prior to 463 00:30:40,116 --> 00:30:43,556 Speaker 1: being institutionalized is one of the central planks of the 464 00:30:43,636 --> 00:30:47,276 Speaker 1: accusation that he was Jack the River, driven to violent 465 00:30:47,356 --> 00:30:51,356 Speaker 1: madness by syphilis. Jennifer Wallace thinks there is no certainty 466 00:30:51,436 --> 00:30:56,356 Speaker 1: Jacob even had this venereal disease. More interestingly, she also 467 00:30:56,516 --> 00:31:00,516 Speaker 1: argues his mental illness likely rules him out as the killer. 468 00:31:01,076 --> 00:31:03,556 Speaker 1: A lot of the doctors at the time who work 469 00:31:03,596 --> 00:31:08,716 Speaker 1: on this they talk about these patients being childish, about 470 00:31:08,756 --> 00:31:13,516 Speaker 1: them being clumsy, and also about them being somewhat automatic 471 00:31:13,756 --> 00:31:17,036 Speaker 1: in their movements, where they are really just going through 472 00:31:17,076 --> 00:31:20,756 Speaker 1: the motions of life and have often regressed in some way, 473 00:31:20,996 --> 00:31:25,676 Speaker 1: rather than being somebody who is very calculating and planning things. 474 00:31:26,236 --> 00:31:29,236 Speaker 1: They don't attempt to hide what they are doing, and 475 00:31:29,316 --> 00:31:32,796 Speaker 1: that seems to be a very common feature of that condition, 476 00:31:32,996 --> 00:31:36,076 Speaker 1: and in fact, one of the key writers on general 477 00:31:36,076 --> 00:31:39,636 Speaker 1: paralysis in this period. William Julius Mickel he thinks it's 478 00:31:39,756 --> 00:31:43,796 Speaker 1: incredibly rare for general paralytics to become involved in something 479 00:31:43,876 --> 00:31:48,636 Speaker 1: like murder, and he actually emphasizes that these are people 480 00:31:48,636 --> 00:31:51,916 Speaker 1: who are more likely to be victims of crime than perpetrators, 481 00:31:51,996 --> 00:31:55,836 Speaker 1: because they are very easily led into things because of 482 00:31:55,876 --> 00:32:00,836 Speaker 1: their delusions. I find it unlikely personally that he would, 483 00:32:00,836 --> 00:32:04,596 Speaker 1: with general paralysis at that stage, have been able to 484 00:32:04,836 --> 00:32:08,356 Speaker 1: commit all of those murders, do them in a methodical way, 485 00:32:08,516 --> 00:32:11,836 Speaker 1: and seal them, and for that not to come out 486 00:32:11,996 --> 00:32:15,836 Speaker 1: when he was in the asylum. As well. Painting a 487 00:32:15,876 --> 00:32:19,876 Speaker 1: poor and sick man like Jacob Leavie as a calculating 488 00:32:19,876 --> 00:32:25,236 Speaker 1: and deliberate murderer means ignoring obvious aspects of his appalling condition. 489 00:32:26,116 --> 00:32:28,436 Speaker 1: Adding to the mix the idea that he was taking 490 00:32:28,476 --> 00:32:32,596 Speaker 1: revenge on all prostitutes because a whore had given him syphilis, 491 00:32:32,956 --> 00:32:36,396 Speaker 1: and we've returned to that cognitive bias that Laurie Santos 492 00:32:36,476 --> 00:32:40,516 Speaker 1: raised earlier, the desire to blame the blameless for their misfortunes, 493 00:32:41,196 --> 00:32:45,556 Speaker 1: to dismiss it all as bad things happening to bad people. 494 00:32:52,116 --> 00:32:54,756 Speaker 1: I'd hope to end this series on an optimistic note, 495 00:32:55,276 --> 00:32:58,196 Speaker 1: since I appreciate it's been sad in some parts and 496 00:32:58,356 --> 00:33:02,556 Speaker 1: maddening in others, and what that ending should be crystallized 497 00:33:02,636 --> 00:33:06,956 Speaker 1: during my conversation with Laurie about empathy. When my journey 498 00:33:06,996 --> 00:33:09,516 Speaker 1: was searching the five victims of Jack the Ripper began, 499 00:33:10,276 --> 00:33:13,956 Speaker 1: all I knew was that they were prostitutes, and even 500 00:33:13,996 --> 00:33:17,116 Speaker 1: that was wrong. I could barely tell you their names, 501 00:33:17,396 --> 00:33:20,236 Speaker 1: let alone where they were born, who they married, what 502 00:33:20,436 --> 00:33:24,716 Speaker 1: triumphs they enjoyed, what defeats they suffered. I soon grew 503 00:33:24,756 --> 00:33:29,476 Speaker 1: to know them, like them, and of course empathize with them. 504 00:33:29,596 --> 00:33:32,676 Speaker 1: I saw beyond the surface to the real women beneath 505 00:33:32,676 --> 00:33:37,276 Speaker 1: the awful labels of drunk, vagrant or whore. But I 506 00:33:37,316 --> 00:33:40,036 Speaker 1: found that my empathy wasn't confined to the ghosts of 507 00:33:40,116 --> 00:33:43,596 Speaker 1: eighteen eighty eight. I told Laurie about walking down a 508 00:33:43,676 --> 00:33:47,076 Speaker 1: London street one night and seeing a homeless woman begging 509 00:33:47,116 --> 00:33:50,236 Speaker 1: with her child. I'm sure I've walked by countless women 510 00:33:50,316 --> 00:33:53,636 Speaker 1: like her in the past, but now I simply couldn't 511 00:33:53,636 --> 00:33:57,356 Speaker 1: pass her by. She told me a story about how 512 00:33:57,436 --> 00:34:01,396 Speaker 1: she fell into arrears on her rent and her landlord 513 00:34:01,436 --> 00:34:05,796 Speaker 1: threw her out with her child. And I was staggered 514 00:34:05,796 --> 00:34:09,516 Speaker 1: because this was literally a story right out of the 515 00:34:09,636 --> 00:34:13,996 Speaker 1: nineteenth century and right there, right in that same place. 516 00:34:14,316 --> 00:34:17,876 Speaker 1: And so I think writing about these women, well, writing 517 00:34:17,916 --> 00:34:24,436 Speaker 1: about poverty, writing about individual's experiences, really makes you see 518 00:34:25,196 --> 00:34:28,796 Speaker 1: more of the universal human experience, which I think is 519 00:34:28,836 --> 00:34:32,036 Speaker 1: the great power of what history should be. It should 520 00:34:32,076 --> 00:34:36,356 Speaker 1: be about making a human connection through time, understanding who 521 00:34:36,396 --> 00:34:38,836 Speaker 1: we are as human beings. This is the kind of 522 00:34:38,836 --> 00:34:40,596 Speaker 1: thing that I think can be so powerful about a 523 00:34:40,596 --> 00:34:43,996 Speaker 1: podcast like yours, right is it's kind of like naturally 524 00:34:44,036 --> 00:34:46,836 Speaker 1: allowing us to sort of flex our empathy muscles. If 525 00:34:46,876 --> 00:34:49,916 Speaker 1: we can empathize with some women who died many, many 526 00:34:49,996 --> 00:34:53,476 Speaker 1: years ago, who've been in circumstances who are very unlike ours, 527 00:34:53,596 --> 00:34:55,236 Speaker 1: it's kind of a way to kind of boost our 528 00:34:55,276 --> 00:35:00,396 Speaker 1: empathy for other people today. So we've reached the end 529 00:35:00,436 --> 00:35:04,516 Speaker 1: of the river retold. I'm hopeful that by acquainting ourselves 530 00:35:04,556 --> 00:35:08,996 Speaker 1: with Polly, Annie, Elizabeth Kate, and Mary Jane, we've all 531 00:35:09,196 --> 00:35:14,476 Speaker 1: flexed our empathy muscles, and with our preconceptions and prejudices challenged, 532 00:35:14,876 --> 00:35:18,556 Speaker 1: perhaps we're now primed to show greater understanding and compassion 533 00:35:18,956 --> 00:35:32,436 Speaker 1: to others. We might simply dismiss as bad women. After 534 00:35:32,476 --> 00:35:35,996 Speaker 1: we completed all the taping for this series, Hannah Jones 535 00:35:36,116 --> 00:35:39,276 Speaker 1: sent us a voice message. She'd been mulling over her 536 00:35:39,316 --> 00:35:42,516 Speaker 1: interview and my questions on whether she was angry about 537 00:35:42,556 --> 00:35:45,956 Speaker 1: the lack of sympathy her great great grandfather has been 538 00:35:45,956 --> 00:35:50,756 Speaker 1: shown sitting alone. Hannah went back to the documents detailing 539 00:35:50,836 --> 00:35:54,676 Speaker 1: Jacob's decline and Sarah's battle to keep their family afloat, 540 00:35:55,156 --> 00:35:59,836 Speaker 1: and then she hit the record button. I think most 541 00:35:59,876 --> 00:36:02,676 Speaker 1: people in my family would consider it a bit precious 542 00:36:02,716 --> 00:36:06,076 Speaker 1: and bit predentious to be upset and outraged about a 543 00:36:06,156 --> 00:36:09,476 Speaker 1: relative that died one hundred and thirty years ago. But 544 00:36:10,396 --> 00:36:13,516 Speaker 1: reading those notes again with fresh eyes, I have to 545 00:36:13,556 --> 00:36:17,156 Speaker 1: admit it did make me cry. And I suppose the 546 00:36:17,156 --> 00:36:20,116 Speaker 1: way that we think about the past, it does color 547 00:36:20,156 --> 00:36:23,756 Speaker 1: how we see people in the present, too, So I 548 00:36:23,796 --> 00:36:26,956 Speaker 1: wanted to add I have no idea whether Jacob ever 549 00:36:26,996 --> 00:36:29,716 Speaker 1: acted on his urges to do violence. We're never going 550 00:36:29,756 --> 00:36:32,516 Speaker 1: to be anywhere close to knowing who Jack the Ribbon was. 551 00:36:33,436 --> 00:36:36,316 Speaker 1: But if people do remember and talk about Jacob, I 552 00:36:36,356 --> 00:36:39,996 Speaker 1: think they should also remember that he was somebody with 553 00:36:40,036 --> 00:36:45,876 Speaker 1: a conscience who worried and felt conflicted. He wants round 554 00:36:45,876 --> 00:36:48,396 Speaker 1: a solvent business. He had high hopes for his family. 555 00:36:49,236 --> 00:36:52,356 Speaker 1: As a teenager, he suffered a horrific trauma when he 556 00:36:52,396 --> 00:36:56,636 Speaker 1: found his older brother who died by suicide at the 557 00:36:56,756 --> 00:36:59,436 Speaker 1: end of his life. He was all alone and in 558 00:36:59,516 --> 00:37:03,316 Speaker 1: pain and confused, and he was only thirty five. So 559 00:37:03,356 --> 00:37:05,836 Speaker 1: I just wanted to say that he should be remembered 560 00:37:05,836 --> 00:37:09,036 Speaker 1: as a real person and not just somebody who might 561 00:37:09,156 --> 00:37:14,396 Speaker 1: tenuously of ben Jack the Ripper. All right, thank you, 562 00:37:14,436 --> 00:37:26,356 Speaker 1: that's it. Bad Women The Ripper Retold is brought to 563 00:37:26,356 --> 00:37:29,476 Speaker 1: you by Pushkin Industries and me Hallie rubin Hold, and 564 00:37:29,636 --> 00:37:32,796 Speaker 1: is based on my book The Five. It was produced 565 00:37:32,836 --> 00:37:35,476 Speaker 1: and co written by Ryan Dilley and Alice Fines, with 566 00:37:35,716 --> 00:37:39,956 Speaker 1: help from Pete Norton and Courtney Guerino. Pascal Wise Sound 567 00:37:39,996 --> 00:37:43,356 Speaker 1: designed and mixed the show and composed all the original music. 568 00:37:43,876 --> 00:37:46,596 Speaker 1: He was accompanied by Ellie Wilson on the violin and 569 00:37:46,716 --> 00:37:50,276 Speaker 1: Berry Wise and Oliver Vessey on the piano. You also 570 00:37:50,316 --> 00:37:54,196 Speaker 1: heard the voice talents of Soulboyer, Sarah Bows, Ben Crowe, 571 00:37:54,556 --> 00:37:59,436 Speaker 1: Melanie Gutridge, Gemma Saunders, Rufus Right and Robin Wise. Bad 572 00:37:59,476 --> 00:38:02,756 Speaker 1: Women The Ripper Retold was recorded at Warders Studios in 573 00:38:02,836 --> 00:38:06,516 Speaker 1: London and sound engineered by Tom Berry, Dave Smith and 574 00:38:06,596 --> 00:38:10,036 Speaker 1: Alicia Cunningham. The show also wouldn't have been ospel without 575 00:38:10,036 --> 00:38:14,276 Speaker 1: the work of Milabelle, Jacob Weisberg, Jen Guerra, Heather Fane, 576 00:38:14,556 --> 00:38:20,316 Speaker 1: Carlie mcgliori, Maggie Taylor, Nicole Morano, Letalmullard, Eric Sander and 577 00:38:20,556 --> 00:38:24,476 Speaker 1: Niela Lucan, with special thanks to my agents Sarah Ballard 578 00:38:24,476 --> 00:38:27,996 Speaker 1: and Ellie kron An. Additional thanks to Frank McGrath and 579 00:38:28,076 --> 00:38:28,756 Speaker 1: Poppy Damon