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Speaker 1: I was writing about the way books can save us,

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Speaker 1: and at the same time writing this book was saving me.

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Speaker 2: From Fudromidia and PRX. It's Latino Usa. I'm Maria noo

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Speaker 2: Rosa today Spanish author id Vajeho and the long history

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Speaker 2: of caring for books. Dear listener, do you know that

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Speaker 2: it's been more than five thousand years since books have

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Speaker 2: accompanied us in so many shapes and in so many forms.

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Speaker 2: This history of books has been made yes in the

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Speaker 2: halls of famous libraries across the world, like in Alexandria

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Speaker 2: and Egypt, but also in the intimacy of a parent

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Speaker 2: reading a bedtime story to their child. Known and respected

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Speaker 2: for her work in academia, by Jeho wrote about this

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Speaker 2: long history of books in Papyrus, The Invention of Books

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Speaker 2: in the Ancient World, which by the way, became an

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Speaker 2: international best seller, selling over a million copies worldwide. Now

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Speaker 2: our co executive producer here at let you know Usay,

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Speaker 2: Penny Lee Ramidez has been fascinated by Iiden Eva Yeho

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Speaker 2: for years and Penny Lay is joining me in the studio. Now, Hey, Penny.

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Speaker 3: Ley, Hello, Maria, I'm very very happy to be here.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And I'm really happy that you were able to

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Speaker 2: score this interview. So Penny quenta me, why have you

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Speaker 2: been so fascinated by this author who is really she's

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Speaker 2: an academic.

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Speaker 3: Well, you know, I typically don't find girl but with

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Speaker 3: Jeho is like something different.

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Speaker 2: I have been to wait a second, So this is

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Speaker 2: your first fangirl moment over Ida Neva Yeho, who's writing

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Speaker 2: about the history of books.

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Speaker 3: I just want to be clear, well kind of you know,

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Speaker 3: I'm I'm an investigator journalist, so I don't run after

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Speaker 3: people saying, oh can I take a picture with you?

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Speaker 3: I really want to meet you in person. So when

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Speaker 3: I saw on Twitter that she was in New York

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Speaker 3: for a few days, I just DM her and I said,

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Speaker 3: I want to meet you in person. Your book meant

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Speaker 3: a lot to me, and I would love to interview you.

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Speaker 3: It was not in the agenda. I was just literally

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Speaker 3: me fangirling with her, but also because I think that

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Speaker 3: she's so fascinating that I wanted more people in the

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Speaker 3: US to know it, Anybodyeho, and to know her work.

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Speaker 2: What is it that she brings that you kind of

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Speaker 2: love as a journalist and that makes you feel alive

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Speaker 2: as a reader?

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Speaker 3: I will say the most important thing that I admire

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Speaker 3: about it in it is the way that she brings

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Speaker 3: stories to life. And this book is not just moving me,

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Speaker 3: you know, it's a book that has been moving millions

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Speaker 3: of readers across the globe. So it is a book

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Speaker 3: that gives you a sense not just about how things

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Speaker 3: happen in the past, but how people will live in

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Speaker 3: in the past, how they were regular people with desires,

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Speaker 3: with dreams, common people, not just the famous characters from history.

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Speaker 3: I immersed myself in this ancient history by reading it

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Speaker 3: and Eva Yeho, I did it in a very particular

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Speaker 3: moment in my life when I was writing my first book.

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Speaker 2: This was the book that accompanied you while you were writing.

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Speaker 2: That's really special, Benny, and I can't wait to hear

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Speaker 2: this piece, so please take it away.

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Speaker 3: I met with it at the Center for Fiction in Brooklyn,

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Speaker 3: and she was wearing this long red gown with these

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Speaker 3: long slids and a high color. She's very elegant and

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Speaker 3: she's very tough for in the way she speaks. So

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Speaker 3: we sat down and we started the interview.

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Speaker 1: Is Yeah, I'm a writer of philologist. I'm the author

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Speaker 1: of Eli Finito and Home Kore translated in English Papyrus.

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Speaker 1: And I've been fascinated by books and reading and writing

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Speaker 1: since I was a little girl.

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Speaker 3: I knew from her book that Edene's love for stories

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Speaker 3: is connected to her memories of her childhood and also

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Speaker 3: to her relationship with her mother, so I asked her

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Speaker 3: about it.

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Speaker 1: When my mother used to tell me stories by my bedside,

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Speaker 1: it was my most amazing moment in the day, and

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Speaker 1: I love it so much that I didn't want it

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Speaker 1: to finish, So I didn't want to learn how.

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Speaker 3: To read or how to write. So this story is

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Speaker 3: connected her to her family. But at the beginning that

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Speaker 3: love didn't really translate into books or into reading. And

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Speaker 3: it was because at school she saw that reading didn't

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Speaker 3: really come with advantages.

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Speaker 1: I was witnessed a boy in my school was suffering

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Speaker 1: from bullying because he knew how to read before the

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Speaker 1: rest of the group.

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Speaker 3: She had this rocky start, and you will think it's

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Speaker 3: surprising that then most of it. Enna's career has revolved

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Speaker 3: around books. For example, she studied classic philosophy in Spain

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Speaker 3: and then in Italy, and she became a professor, and

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Speaker 3: she's been working since then to bring the public of

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Speaker 3: all ages, closer to classical culture and classical studies. But

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Speaker 3: what really moved her was not these high positions of academia.

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Speaker 3: It was those nights and that feeling of any reading

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Speaker 3: with her mother.

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Speaker 1: In this intimate, happy moment of the night with my mother,

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Speaker 1: when I felt safe and I could enjoy it.

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Speaker 3: After becoming a teacher, I started writing. She first published

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Speaker 3: a historical novel about the Spanish Civil War, and later

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Speaker 3: she wrote a children's book and it was based on

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Speaker 3: Greek stories. After that she published her book Ellen Finito

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Speaker 3: and on Junko, which translated into English as Papyrus The

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Speaker 3: Invention of Books in the Ancient World. And this is

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Speaker 3: the moment that changed Iran's life. In twenty nineteen, she

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Speaker 3: became a famous, international bestselling author.

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Speaker 1: I was preparing myself to give up my childhood dream

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Speaker 1: of becoming a writer, a professional writer, and I wasn't

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Speaker 1: expecting this.

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Speaker 3: And one of the reasons why this book is so

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Speaker 3: captivating and frankly captivated me is because even though Papyrus

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Speaker 3: is a history book, it is written like an adventure novel.

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Speaker 1: I noticed that my students were more captivated and fascinated

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Speaker 1: by stories than abstract ideas. I wonder if I could

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Speaker 1: came up with a book of history made of characters

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Speaker 1: and adventures and visititudes and traveler and anecdotes and a

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Speaker 1: broad geography of readers throughout the centuries and throughout the world.

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Speaker 1: And this was the experiment. It was like the challenge

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Speaker 1: of the book, making something that is very much like

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Speaker 1: a novel or a fiction books, but with materials that

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Speaker 1: are historic, to prove myself that I was able to

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Speaker 1: do such a thing. The main characters in my books

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Speaker 1: are anonymous people like librarians and booksellers and slave copies

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Speaker 1: and inventors and travelers and printers and translators and everyone

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Speaker 1: who is involved in the chain of the book, the creation,

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Speaker 1: the preservation and the production of books, and of course

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Speaker 1: teachers and professors who are the ones to teach how

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Speaker 1: to read and write, and they open the space for

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Speaker 1: books and knowledge. So the book it was meant to

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Speaker 1: be exploration of the different formats and traditions of books.

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Speaker 1: But I realized that books and life and writing and

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Speaker 1: art is impossible without these kind of people who is

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Speaker 1: making everything possible. And they are usually in the shadows

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Speaker 1: and they are not celebrated. I think the history of

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Speaker 1: books is also a history of people saving something that

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Speaker 1: is really fragile. So the book changed into something different,

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Speaker 1: and it is a book about caregiving and the people

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Speaker 1: who save books during history.

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Speaker 3: I knew that Fordny it wasn't just the challenge of

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Speaker 3: writing a book, but also what was happening in her

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Speaker 3: life when she wrote it.

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Speaker 1: I wrote this book at a very painful moment of

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Speaker 1: my personal life, when my son was born with breathing problems,

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Speaker 1: a serious condition, and we had to face a long hospitalization.

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Speaker 1: I was surrounded by people who was taking care of

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Speaker 1: our son and ourselves, so I had to overcome a

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Speaker 1: lot of obstacles, internal external obstacles. Surprisingly, this book was

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Speaker 1: like a therapy for me. Papyrus became my refuge, my

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Speaker 1: safe heaven. I was writing about the way books can

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Speaker 1: save us, and at the same time writing this book

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Speaker 1: was saving me.

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Speaker 3: I need to say that Irene's book also saved me because,

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Speaker 3: as I said, I read Papyrus during the pandemic, and

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Speaker 3: I was also writing my first book. So when I

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Speaker 3: was done with my hectic day of work and taking

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Speaker 3: care of the kids, I found calm and inspiration by

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Speaker 3: reading it in those quiet hours. At the end of

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Speaker 3: the day. And of course I was not the only one.

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Speaker 1: Most of my readers opened the pages of the book

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Speaker 1: in pandemics, suffering from health programs and concern and anxiety,

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Speaker 1: exactly the very same situation I was facing when I

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Speaker 1: wrote it. So maybe there was this kind of connection,

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Speaker 1: something that is emotional about our need to read and

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Speaker 1: the kind of solage that we can find in reading

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Speaker 1: in books, and it's like medicine against pain and suffering

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Speaker 1: and distress.

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Speaker 3: And it was that connection with readers that made this

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Speaker 3: book an unlikely and astonishing success across the world. Since

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Speaker 3: its publication, Papyrus has been translated into thirty eight languages.

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Speaker 1: To tell the truth and to be honest, I thought

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Speaker 1: for Pirus was going to be my last book because of,

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Speaker 1: you know, the province I was facing with my son.

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Speaker 1: What was meant to be my last book is the

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Speaker 1: beginning of a new period, a new phase of my life.

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Speaker 1: It's unbelievable. There is like a vibrant community out there

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Speaker 1: who really believe in the value of books, reading, humanities

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Speaker 1: and so on, and I'm thrilled to have had the

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Speaker 1: chance to discover it. And that community exists in many countries.

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Speaker 1: It has been really amazing to work with my translators,

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Speaker 1: and they have even improved the original because they found

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Speaker 1: out things that could be improved. So the original in

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Speaker 1: Spanish has been transformed by the activity and the contributions

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Speaker 1: of my translators, and I'm so happy to work with them.

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Speaker 3: In fact, the English translation of the book, which was

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Speaker 3: done by Charlotte Whittle, won an award from the prestigious

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Speaker 3: Queen Sophia Spanish Institute.

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Speaker 1: I'm trying to advocate the cause of translators and asking

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Speaker 1: for better conditions for them, and asking all my publishers

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Speaker 1: to put the names on the cover of the book.

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Speaker 1: For instance, now Tarlock, with my wonderful translator to English.

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Speaker 1: I think they are authors as well, and they should

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Speaker 1: be celebrated as such.

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Speaker 3: And now she has become this celebrity in books, but

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Speaker 3: she still considers herself an academic first, and she's very

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Speaker 3: aware of the women that came before her and made

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Speaker 3: possible for her to achieve the success.

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Speaker 1: The book includes many, many acts of gratitude and recognition

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Speaker 1: from my mother and my Greek teacher and authors female authors. Certainly,

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Speaker 1: a Mary Verse places special role because she is a

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Speaker 1: classicist as I am.

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Speaker 2: One of the biggest puzzles about the Roman employer has

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Speaker 2: always been what caused it's decline un.

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Speaker 3: Full British historian Mary Birt has been called the world's

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Speaker 3: most famous classes. She's written more than twenty books about

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Speaker 3: classical history, about feminism and academic life, and she has

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Speaker 3: radio and TV shows about antiquity.

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Speaker 1: And she's a model for women trying to conquer the

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Speaker 1: space of prestige of intellectual activity and trying to find

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Speaker 1: the way to participate in the dialogue of ideas and thoughts.

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Speaker 1: And I feel the essay is a genera that is

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Speaker 1: occupied mainly by men, So that was a challenge that

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Speaker 1: I perceive, and I chose to write this essay as

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Speaker 1: a way of doing it in a different way, to

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Speaker 1: offer an alternative point of view and a different way

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Speaker 1: of conveying knowledge and ideas with closeness, with passion, and

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Speaker 1: not from a possession of superiority.

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Speaker 3: Mary Bird and I are both successful as authors, but

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Speaker 3: they have something else in common. As high profile female academics.

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Speaker 3: They both have been bullied on social media, and not

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Speaker 3: just because of the work. The attacks have sometimes gotten personal.

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Speaker 1: I feel vulnerable many times because of the exposure to

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Speaker 1: social media, and sometimes I am attacked and attack also

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Speaker 1: for different reasons than men are attacked or questioned being

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Speaker 1: a woman and being a mother. I would like to

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Speaker 1: do my bid to bringing to the public conversation topics

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Speaker 1: as humanities and caregiving and creativity and mutual help and communities.

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Speaker 1: My being a woman is essential to my procupation my

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Speaker 1: concern for those topics. And I'm struggling to take care

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Speaker 1: of my son and doing everything the promotional work, and

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Speaker 1: sometimes I feel guilty of not spending so much time

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Speaker 1: with my son, or on the other side, spending too

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Speaker 1: much time with my son and not working and doing

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Speaker 1: what I suppose to do. Every woman who is working

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Speaker 1: and raising children is feeling the same thing. But maybe

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Speaker 1: it's the first time when we are talking about it

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Speaker 1: and we are questioning this kind of concepts and admitting

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Speaker 1: that we are vulnerable to this kind of concept and

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Speaker 1: cultural inherited ideas.

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Speaker 3: Now, five years after the book first drop, it is

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Speaker 3: still traveling the world giving talks and signing books. She

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Speaker 3: recently visited Japan, where the book sold out in its

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Speaker 3: first edition.

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Speaker 1: We need role models, we need female figures in positions

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Speaker 1: of thinking knowledge and teaching and in the public sphere.

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Speaker 2: This episode was reported by Benni Lei Ramidez, who's also

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Speaker 2: our co executive producer. It was produced by Roxan Naghuire

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Speaker 2: and edited by Victori Estrada. It was mixed by Andy

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Speaker 2: Bosnak special thanks to Alfredo Avilaruda. The Latino USA team

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Speaker 2: also includes Julia Caruso, Jessica Ellis Renaldo Leanoz Junior, Stephanie Lebou,

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Speaker 2: Andrea Lopez Gruzsado, Luis Luna Glrimar Marquez, Marta Martinez Norsaudi

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Speaker 2: and Nancy Trujuiro. I'm your host and co executive producer

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Speaker 2: Maria Nojosa. Join us again on our next episode. In

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Speaker 2: the meantime, I'll see you on all of the social media,

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Speaker 2: and you know I'll see you on Instagram, So catch

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Speaker 2: you there and remember Lte Bayes Bai.

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Speaker 3: Latino USA is made possible in part by California Endowment,

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Speaker 3: building a strong state by improving the health of all Californians,

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Speaker 3: Skyline Foundation and Michelle Mercer and Bruce Golden