Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Leftstets Podcast. My
Speaker 1: guest today is concert promoter of Louis Messina. Louis.
Speaker 2: Is it ever Lewis, No, it's never. Yeah. It's really
Speaker 2: funny because when I introduced myself, I go, Hi, I'm
Speaker 2: Lewis Messina, but you can call me Louis, but don't
Speaker 2: call me lou Okay.
Speaker 1: So what differences have you noticed, if any, in the
Speaker 1: concert promotion business post COVID as opposed to pre COVID.
Speaker 2: The difference is is that the abundance of acts that
Speaker 2: are on the road. It's just, you know, that is
Speaker 2: the biggest difference. There's so many shows going on at
Speaker 2: the same time. Even though everything has been so so successful,
Speaker 2: I'm really concerned that one day and maybe soon, that
Speaker 2: people are going to say I have no more money.
Speaker 2: I've been to too many shows. I can't go to
Speaker 2: fifteen shows like I did because I've seen everybody, or
Speaker 2: I've been at home and COVID's over. I don't know.
Speaker 2: I'm just looking forward to this upcoming year and I
Speaker 2: don't know if I mean that's the big difference. There's
Speaker 2: a lot of big difference. The country is different today
Speaker 2: than it was pre COVID. In my opinion, the political
Speaker 2: landscape is crazy. It's insane, and people, I think are
Speaker 2: getting over the COVID blues.
Speaker 1: Okay, so how hard is it to get a building
Speaker 1: and how far in advanced do you have to book
Speaker 1: a tour?
Speaker 2: Well? The good thing, the way I operate, I'm waiting.
Speaker 2: I'm waiting in advance. I know it artists are doing
Speaker 2: two years from now because it's not like I'm you know,
Speaker 2: I call myself a career promoter, not a tour promoter,
Speaker 2: because it's about not only what we're doing this tour,
Speaker 2: but what we're doing two three tours from now. And
Speaker 2: so I'm already booking in twenty six and twenty seven
Speaker 2: right now because I know what I mean. Everything's always
Speaker 2: subject to change, of course, but I know what most
Speaker 2: of my autists are doing in years to come. Unlike
Speaker 2: you know, when I get a phone call, go hey,
Speaker 2: we're looking for you know, an offer, and we're going
Speaker 2: to start in January. That's not how we do business.
Speaker 1: Okay. Recently, relative to you, you picked up the Lumineers.
Speaker 1: You're big on career development, taking artists into the stratosphere.
Speaker 1: The Lumineers did play a stadium in Chicago. What did
Speaker 1: you see in the Lumineers that you wanted to work
Speaker 1: with them?
Speaker 2: Uh? Musically, I just love their music and and uh
Speaker 2: when I first got involved with them, they were there
Speaker 2: was sort of like kind of you know, just hipster
Speaker 2: band sort of, and they had a very select audience,
Speaker 2: I believe, you know. And then all of a sudden
Speaker 2: they just developed into superstars. I mean, Wes has become like,
Speaker 2: I mean, he is a superstar, and the band is
Speaker 2: has changed. They've got a couple of new members, and it's,
Speaker 2: in my opinion, it's I just saw I just saw
Speaker 2: magic and them that That's that's all I can say.
Speaker 2: I heard magic and their music, and I saw the
Speaker 2: way that they connected with their audience. Just like everybody.
Speaker 2: That's what I'm always looking for the connection between the
Speaker 2: artist and audience. And they have that connection and they
Speaker 2: are growing by the day.
Speaker 1: Okay, in the old days, everything was driven by the
Speaker 1: record company and radio. That's not necessarily the case these days.
Speaker 1: So with a band like the Lumineers, what can the
Speaker 1: promoter do to grow the audience for the band?
Speaker 2: Wow? What can we do? It's almost like, well, we
Speaker 2: do everything because we like to look at ourselves as
Speaker 2: as a connection to the artist, the manager, the label,
Speaker 2: where we're just not we just don't want to be
Speaker 2: the promoter. We want to be the artist partner. So
Speaker 2: we're involved in all of their decisions with them, with
Speaker 2: the record company. So we're all on the same page
Speaker 2: and we all have goals. And I think that is
Speaker 2: where how you see something and then you take gambles,
Speaker 2: you know, like we we played two stadiums last tour,
Speaker 2: we played Denver and Chicago, and I committed that we're
Speaker 2: going to play eight to ten uh on you know,
Speaker 2: on the next tour because I just feel it. But
Speaker 2: I think that that is it. It's just that we
Speaker 2: just don't put shows on sale. We're actually we're going
Speaker 2: deeper than that with the autists and their entire organization,
Speaker 2: not just us selling tickets. It's selling it's selling them
Speaker 2: and selling their career and selling their brand. And that's
Speaker 2: what we're trying to do.
Speaker 1: Oh, someone like the lumineers who are on their way up,
Speaker 1: can you go a little deeper what you might do
Speaker 1: to grow to get people into the building.
Speaker 2: Well, first of all, we play the right buildings, and
Speaker 2: unlike a lot of autists that take, you know, take
Speaker 2: these tour deals. If we're only supposed to do thirty
Speaker 2: five shows, that's all the shows we do, not fifty
Speaker 2: or sixty. And we pick our markets and we know
Speaker 2: where our growth is because you know, I'm a big
Speaker 2: believer in historicals and so if I saw where they
Speaker 2: did X amount of people that time, I'm always trying
Speaker 2: to grow. Help the artists grow twenty five thirty five
Speaker 2: percent each tour because there's enough people to fill every
Speaker 2: arena in every stateium in a country that listens to
Speaker 2: their music. So now you know the fans, they're hardcore fans.
Speaker 2: They just got to hear one message, one thing from
Speaker 2: the Lumineers. But now I've got to convince along with
Speaker 2: the band. But my job is to convince people that
Speaker 2: should I go to the Lumineers, should I go see
Speaker 2: this band on that band. I've got to create this
Speaker 2: imaginary world about going to see the Lumineers and how
Speaker 2: wonderful it's going to be. And so that is kind
Speaker 2: of my job is or as you know, throwing them
Speaker 2: throwing magic dust on the whole on the whole program
Speaker 2: and if that makes any sense. But that's what I do.
Speaker 2: I do. I just throw magic dust on it.
Speaker 1: Okay, well, there's magic dust once the show plays, and
Speaker 1: magic dust to get people in the building. So if
Speaker 1: you're playing a stadium that's somewhere between thirty five and
Speaker 1: sixty thousand seats, you're gonna have a certain number of
Speaker 1: people who are going to say, I have to see
Speaker 1: this is my favorite band. How do you convince the
Speaker 1: rest of the people. What's the magic dust you might
Speaker 1: employ to get the rest of the people to come.
Speaker 2: Well, you know, through messaging if it's you know, it's
Speaker 2: through repetition of your message and talking to people, not
Speaker 2: talking at people. That's hard really to explain. And it's
Speaker 2: like when you see a commercial on television, officer, Oh wow,
Speaker 2: that's a cool commercial, and then you want to dig
Speaker 2: a little deeper. So if I can create this fantasy
Speaker 2: or that the Lumineers is a mussye show by through
Speaker 2: repetition of my messaging and through different messaging, getting fans
Speaker 2: talking to each other, because that's the key thing, because
Speaker 2: you know, I grew up in a world where you know,
Speaker 2: the best form of advertising is word of mouth, and
Speaker 2: so I can get fans start talking to other fans.
Speaker 2: That's the key thing is to get the chatter gone.
Speaker 2: And so we just you know, if people weren't, if
Speaker 2: the fish are inviting on this side of the boat,
Speaker 2: we have fishing on the other side of the boat.
Speaker 2: So our messaging has to continue and we have to
Speaker 2: we have to continue looking for the people that we
Speaker 2: can convince to go see a band like the Lumineers
Speaker 2: or whomever, you know, George Strait, whoever I work for.
Speaker 1: Okay, the old days, you know texas As GM days, whatever,
Speaker 1: you just advertise on the rock stations. How do you
Speaker 1: reach these people today?
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, now it's all I mean, the majority
Speaker 2: of our advertising is social media. I mean we're still
Speaker 2: buying you know, regular radio and Harvey zero newspaper ads,
Speaker 2: but most of our advertisings is you know, online advertising,
Speaker 2: and we have you know, we'll we'll, we'll, we'll partner
Speaker 2: with you know, we'll partner with Aol or Google, or
Speaker 2: or will partner with different entities. And so not only
Speaker 2: are we reaching out just to autist fans, but we'll
Speaker 2: keep on expanding the number of people we reach out to.
Speaker 2: If it's through the buildings email. This is if it's
Speaker 2: through the ticketing company, if it's through the fan clubs,
Speaker 2: we just keep on growing and own and growing the
Speaker 2: people that we are who we're trying to reach. We
Speaker 2: you know, Scott Swift always tells me, you know, there's
Speaker 2: so many billions of people that live in the world.
Speaker 2: If we only get one percent of it, I mean,
Speaker 2: we can sell out everywhere. So that's all we're trying
Speaker 2: to do, is get one percent of the population. That
Speaker 2: shouldn't be a tough thing to do.
Speaker 1: Let's talk about Taylor Swift. You know, she wrapped up
Speaker 1: her US tour a few months ago. If you could
Speaker 1: snap your fingers and do anything different, what might you
Speaker 1: do different?
Speaker 2: Clone her? There's nothing I would do different. I mean,
Speaker 2: you know it was so big. As I was talking
Speaker 2: to you and Aspen about there is such a demand,
Speaker 2: we knew it was going to be big, and we
Speaker 2: said it. That's while we only set one city a week,
Speaker 2: so we knew that there was gould be multiples. But
Speaker 2: you know, if I would have known, I mean, unfortunately,
Speaker 2: there was ten times. I mean, there was millions and
Speaker 2: millions of people trying to get tickets. You know, we're
Speaker 2: trying to get one hundred and fifty thousand tickets and
Speaker 2: two million people registered. If we would have staggered because
Speaker 2: our new approach is slow and easy and rather than
Speaker 2: like going out and at one time, I think that's
Speaker 2: the only thing we might have done different. But it's
Speaker 2: been Pitcher perfect. I mean the whole time. I mean,
Speaker 2: the fans are loving it. She's having the best time
Speaker 2: of her life. Her shows are incredible, her fans are incredible,
Speaker 2: and you know, she's ready to start in a couple
Speaker 2: of weeks in Asia and then you know, it's off
Speaker 2: around the world this year. I mean, she's working all
Speaker 2: the way through December.
Speaker 1: And what is your involvement in the foreign dates we're
Speaker 1: to see?
Speaker 2: We're involved with Tailor Worldwide. We have local partners around
Speaker 2: the around the world, but we're involved with worldwide.
Speaker 1: Okay, so let's delve into the ticketing. Let's delve in
Speaker 1: at the most basic level, the fees. What is your
Speaker 1: view point on the fees.
Speaker 2: They're ridiculous and I don't know how they got that high.
Speaker 2: And I think it's sad that ticketing is the cost
Speaker 2: of service charges ship They're like, you know, a third
Speaker 2: of the cost of the tickets, which is ridiculous, but
Speaker 2: there's nothing I can do about it. I mean, I
Speaker 2: need to have a ticketing system. So if it's Ticketmaster
Speaker 2: or Access or you know, any of these, you know,
Speaker 2: seat geeks, their fees are ridiculous. But there's so many,
Speaker 2: you know, so many people with their hands in the pot.
Speaker 2: That's why, you know. I mean, you have the ticketing company,
Speaker 2: you got the building, you got the promoter, you know
Speaker 2: all you know having their fingers in the pot.
Speaker 1: So with all these incredibly successful acts, to what degree
Speaker 1: can you as the promoter negotiate the fees to your advantage?
Speaker 2: It's very difficult because unless it's a very inexpensive ticket.
Speaker 2: If I'm trying to sell a twenty dollars ticket, then
Speaker 2: I will go to a ticketing company and say can
Speaker 2: we limit the fees at this, But when you're talking
Speaker 2: about higher up prices, there's little to no control or
Speaker 2: say that I have because it's what it is. It's
Speaker 2: very difficult to negotiate their fees down.
Speaker 1: Okay, the two big ticketing companies in the US you
Speaker 1: mentioned Access and Live Nation. Ticket Master which is owned
Speaker 1: by Live Nation, part of Live Nation. Now you have
Speaker 1: these super scaled shows. But a lot of people where
Speaker 1: the shows are playing in smaller building or they're not
Speaker 1: instantly going clean, they get an advertising bump from ticket Master.
Speaker 1: They feel being on Ticketmaster raises a weirdness. Is that
Speaker 1: something you've experienced relative to using other ticketing companies.
Speaker 2: Well, Ticketmaster is the most established company, but Access is
Speaker 2: gaining ground big time. Ticketmasters just because they're part of
Speaker 2: Live Nation and you know, they've signed all these you know,
Speaker 2: building contracts and they were way ahead of the game.
Speaker 2: But I think people when they think of ticketing, ticket
Speaker 2: Master comes to mind right away, so the manages people
Speaker 2: are familiar with it. Even if it's not on Ticketmaster.
Speaker 2: People go to the Ticketmaster site or go to an
Speaker 2: automatic brokers site. You know, they'll go they think they're
Speaker 2: going through Access or Ticketmaster and they wind up on
Speaker 2: a seek geek site. And you know, unfortunately people are
Speaker 2: especially a popular show, people are so anxious to get
Speaker 2: tickets they're not even knowing where they're buying them from.
Speaker 2: But being on Ticketmaster, you know, they're the most established.
Speaker 2: That's all I could. It's not like, oh, I'm going
Speaker 2: to sell fifteen percent more tickets because I'm a Ticketmaster.
Speaker 2: You know, if I have, you know, a hot act,
Speaker 2: I could sell it out of my trunk of my car.
Speaker 2: But people will find where the tickets are. But I
Speaker 2: think Ticketmaster is the most stable. I'm going to just
Speaker 2: leave it at that. They're the most established. But we
Speaker 2: do need to have other ticketing platforms out there.
Speaker 1: Okay, in other countries you can buy the tickets from
Speaker 1: multiple outlets. Do you think that's a superior system.
Speaker 2: My experience is it's not a superior system. I mean,
Speaker 2: like in London and at Wembley Stadium, you know, the
Speaker 2: stadium is divided in half where ticket massa gets half
Speaker 2: the tickets and access gets half the tickets. That works
Speaker 2: really well, but in a lot of like when we
Speaker 2: were down in South America, I mean the ticketing was
Speaker 2: really kind of funky because I mean we had, you
Speaker 2: know a lot of times the promoters controlled the ticketing.
Speaker 2: They have their own systems, and so it's not as
Speaker 2: organized when you leave North America. It's a different world
Speaker 2: out there, it really is, and it's not as you know,
Speaker 2: it's it's not as as current as American ticketing. Uh,
Speaker 2: it's just a lot of work and a lot of detail. Uh.
Speaker 2: To to to go into countries outside of North America
Speaker 2: and get the service that we normally have here.
Speaker 1: How do you make sure you're not ripped off in
Speaker 1: these countries?
Speaker 2: Well, you you have to pay close attention and and
Speaker 2: I guarantee you we're getting ripped off, you know. And
Speaker 2: I don't think as much as it used to be,
Speaker 2: because when I first started doing international shows, I always
Speaker 2: felt like all the international promoters were in collision with
Speaker 2: each other because the rent you know, the building rents
Speaker 2: were always the same, all the cost was always the same.
Speaker 2: And honestly, I just said, this is bs. If you
Speaker 2: want my act, then I want I. You know, we're
Speaker 2: not gonna do it your way. We're gonna we're gonna
Speaker 2: louis Ie this thing, and we're well, you know, I
Speaker 2: need to know where I need to know what's behind
Speaker 2: the curtain. So I mean, if you don't want the act,
Speaker 2: I don't need you man, you know. And and so
Speaker 2: when you have the power of someone you know, as
Speaker 2: strong as someone like Taylor, you get you get to
Speaker 2: look behind the curtain.
Speaker 1: Okay. In some of these countries, the economics only work
Speaker 1: through sponsorships because the public can only afford so much
Speaker 1: for tickets. Is that a factor with Taylor Swift?
Speaker 2: Not really. She wanted to do you know, Taylor's never
Speaker 2: done a world tour, and she wanted to do a
Speaker 2: world tour. And uh, when sponsorships come in, they come in.
Speaker 2: But it wasn't the driving point of she had to
Speaker 2: have a sponsor to go tour. You know, if we
Speaker 2: have sponsors, it's I'm from New Orleans. It's called land yap.
Speaker 2: You know, it's a little something extra. And so it's
Speaker 2: not that we it was mandatory that we had to
Speaker 2: go seek sponsors in other countries, but we did because
Speaker 2: she's such you know, she's the biggest star and not
Speaker 2: only in the world, but one of the biggest stars
Speaker 2: in history of music. So so everybody wants to be
Speaker 2: associated with her.
Speaker 1: So how do you decide where to play?
Speaker 2: Well, you look for the Well we knew this was
Speaker 2: a stadium tour.
Speaker 1: So now no, no, I'm talking international. So let's assume
Speaker 1: you want to go to South America. Economically, do you
Speaker 1: say I have to do a certain number of dates
Speaker 1: just to make the numbers work. Where do you decide
Speaker 1: what cities, what countries, how many shows?
Speaker 2: Well that came from uh, you know, like we went
Speaker 2: down in South America. We we only played three markets
Speaker 2: and besides Mexico City, and that's all she wanted to
Speaker 2: play where she didn't want to do a tour of
Speaker 2: South America and then around the world. She just wanted
Speaker 2: to hit every country. You know. Originally, like Canada wasn't
Speaker 2: even available when we routed this tour, but then she
Speaker 2: she got so many requests from her fans then that
Speaker 2: we added the Toronto uh, and then we added the
Speaker 2: Vancouver because fan demand and she's trying to reach her
Speaker 2: all her audience. And so that's what I'm saying. We're
Speaker 2: playing Italy, playing France where she's never played stadiums in
Speaker 2: these markets before. She's never played arenas in those markets before.
Speaker 2: I mean, she's done the UK, but but now she's
Speaker 2: you know, she's hitting almost every every country in Europe
Speaker 2: and and you know, then in the East, I mean,
Speaker 2: she's only done uh, Japan, Thailand, and Australia. So that's
Speaker 2: the only Marcus that she's done, you know, out west.
Speaker 2: And but we're doing like I think it's like ninety
Speaker 2: shows this year around the world, and we come back
Speaker 2: in North America, we added three shows and we had it.
Speaker 2: We had Miami, Indianapolis and New Orleans and Toronto and Vancouver.
Speaker 2: At the end of the tour, Okay, we know that
Speaker 2: all these shows are going to sell out. They already
Speaker 2: sold out.
Speaker 3: Right, Well, you get on the plane, it's day one,
Speaker 3: and you know you have eighty nine more days to go.
Speaker 3: Does she ever get fatigued or does she ever say
Speaker 3: this is as many as I want to play?
Speaker 2: She she is iron Woman. I mean she is. She
Speaker 2: comes off stage with so much energy and so she's
Speaker 2: so happy. She's having the best time of her life.
Speaker 2: And I can't speak. Just a few times that I've
Speaker 2: spoken to her, she's off coming off stage, and she is,
Speaker 2: she sties, she's just happy as could be. And she's
Speaker 2: I mean she's singing three hours and twenty minutes every night,
Speaker 2: sometimes doing three four five in a row. She's I
Speaker 2: told her she's bionical, and she really is. I've never
Speaker 2: seen anyone like her my whole career.
Speaker 1: So what makes her different as a person from the
Speaker 1: other superstars you work with?
Speaker 2: Man? She tail is a one of a kind. I mean,
Speaker 2: I've known her for seventeen years and she's always been
Speaker 2: that special person. She's always out, worked, out thought, you know,
Speaker 2: out hustled out everything to anybody. And she always knew
Speaker 2: where she wanted to be, even I mean when she
Speaker 2: first started. I mean she always told me. I remember
Speaker 2: before the first tour, she goes, you know, when they
Speaker 2: hired me as as their promoter, she goes, this is
Speaker 2: how I want my shows to be. You know, she
Speaker 2: already had in their head how she wanted it to be.
Speaker 2: And you know, I want all my songs to be
Speaker 2: a theatrical presentation. And then she knew what kind of
Speaker 2: affects she wanted back then, you know, way in the
Speaker 2: early days when there's not a whole bunch of money involved.
Speaker 2: But she knew, she knew who she is. She's so
Speaker 2: driven and she always I don't know, she's she's able
Speaker 2: to capture what's in her head and get it on stage.
Speaker 2: She's amazing. I mean, like I said, I'm honored to
Speaker 2: be a part of her world. And you know, I
Speaker 2: wish I could take some credit, but man, it's all her.
Speaker 1: So in terms of ticket prices, there are expensive tickets.
Speaker 1: How do you decide what the price should be?
Speaker 2: I let people decide, you know, And and that's why
Speaker 2: Dynamic pricing comes in no different than airlines and hotels.
Speaker 2: If someone wants to pay, we sought out at a
Speaker 2: certain amount and if the demand is there, But like
Speaker 2: with Taylor and Ed Sheeran, and they'll cap us where
Speaker 2: we could, they also go, this is the most you
Speaker 2: can sell a ticket far or dynamic pricing some honest
Speaker 2: you know, sky's the limit and other parts where people
Speaker 2: mistaken ticket pricing is that say, ticket prices that we're
Speaker 2: selling or four hundred and fifty dollars, but on the
Speaker 2: secondary markets they're five thousand dollars and that's what people
Speaker 2: that they can tailors selling tickets for or George Straight
Speaker 2: selling tickets for, and it's not the case. But that's
Speaker 2: where dynamic price, in my opinion, is really great because
Speaker 2: it narrows the profit margin of the secondary markets and
Speaker 2: be the artist it actually now participates in ticket sales
Speaker 2: as far as the grosses, the full gross and not
Speaker 2: just their you know a third of what the secondary
Speaker 2: markets are are selling tickets for. You know, as Bruce said,
Speaker 2: you know, why should they make the markets when these
Speaker 2: everybody's on stage is the one that's putting the work in.
Speaker 1: So once again, if you could snap your fingers. How
Speaker 1: would you beat the brokers?
Speaker 2: What we're doing as much as we can do, as
Speaker 2: far as dynamic pricing, that's the only way to do it.
Speaker 2: Limit tickets for four to six per transaction. It's just tough, man.
Speaker 2: The only way you're gonna limit it. If the government
Speaker 2: jumps in and there's national regulations on resale tickets. It's
Speaker 2: too big of a business for a promoter or an
Speaker 2: act just to fight, no matter how hard you try.
Speaker 2: I mean, you know, look at goth Brooks. He keeps
Speaker 2: on ad and shows, but there his tickets on the
Speaker 2: secondary markets. You know, everybody's tickets are. And we've tried.
Speaker 2: I've been fighting ticketing scalping my whole career, and I
Speaker 2: don't know what to do about it. I mean, only
Speaker 2: way I know how to do it, how it benefits
Speaker 2: us is through dynamic pricing.
Speaker 1: Okay, So you have these acts that go clean everywhere.
Speaker 1: What kind of deal does your company make with them?
Speaker 2: I deal that's fair for the act and fair for me.
Speaker 2: That you know, every act is different. I my you know,
Speaker 2: as you know, my model is a lot different than
Speaker 2: AEG's model or Live Nations model. I work with a
Speaker 2: dozen acts and So my deal with them is my
Speaker 2: deal with them. And you know, I'm not out there
Speaker 2: in the rent a band business, you know, that's how
Speaker 2: I call it, you know, where I'm just not writing
Speaker 2: these goofball checks and making up this these crazy deals
Speaker 2: where people think they're getting free money. I just make
Speaker 2: the most money for my artists. That's what I do.
Speaker 2: That's how my deals are different, because I'm honest with
Speaker 2: my artists. If there's a dollar on the ground, they
Speaker 2: get their piece. There's there's total transparency the way I
Speaker 2: do business.
Speaker 1: Have you ever scalped tickets as a promoter?
Speaker 2: Never that one time? Okay, So you don't believe me.
Speaker 2: I see that grin on your face.
Speaker 1: I know so many stories with people with blue chip
Speaker 1: reputations and they have scalp tickets and they have done
Speaker 1: other things. I can't sit here and say you've done it.
Speaker 1: I'm just saying that, Hey, that's something that comes up
Speaker 1: with everybody.
Speaker 2: Or they won't share the public and I could have,
Speaker 2: you know, I mean, I just like the acts. We
Speaker 2: left a lot of money on the table. But man,
Speaker 2: I wouldn't be who I am today if I would
Speaker 2: have played that game. I just wouldn't have simple as that.
Speaker 1: Okay, you're done with SFX. You go into business with
Speaker 1: George straight You had so much history in the rock business.
Speaker 1: What did you learn that was different about the country business.
Speaker 2: Nothing really different. It's well, Lowald, that's what the i'mn sure,
Speaker 2: you know. I mean, you know, I've been with George
Speaker 2: for thirty years and it's there's loyalty there where there's less. Okay,
Speaker 2: this is going to get me in trouble. There's less agents,
Speaker 2: there's less people involved. You know, you're dealing almost one
Speaker 2: on one with the autist. You know, like if I'm
Speaker 2: dealing with George, I'm dealing with George and you know,
Speaker 2: or her Wolsey, his manager. You know, if I'm dealing
Speaker 2: with Kenny Chesney, I'm dealing with Clinton him and Kenny
Speaker 2: you know, the manager. And you know, with Blake Shelton,
Speaker 2: I'm dealing directly with Novel and Blake you know, actually
Speaker 2: with Novel, you know, but there's a direct connection. It's
Speaker 2: not like I got to go to the local, you know,
Speaker 2: through the regional agent that goes to the responsible agent,
Speaker 2: that goes to the manager. You know, where that's a
Speaker 2: goofball game. So that is the difference between in my
Speaker 2: opinion country. But even though it's the relationship I have,
Speaker 2: It's like with the lumineers Joel Tamian, he's the agent.
Speaker 2: Do business with him, do business with you know, activists,
Speaker 2: the management company, and I get quick answers. It's like
Speaker 2: because going back to what I'm saying, I'm trying to
Speaker 2: be partners with the act, not just trying to be
Speaker 2: the guy that bought them for a tour or two.
Speaker 2: You know, I didn't buy them. I'm partners with them.
Speaker 1: So when you get involved with George, what's the status
Speaker 1: of his business?
Speaker 2: What do you mean status?
Speaker 1: How many tickets could he sell?
Speaker 2: Well, I mean we have packaged him with Chris Stapleton
Speaker 2: and we're selling out every stadium that we play.
Speaker 1: No, No, I'm asking something when thirty years ago, when
Speaker 1: you first got involved with George.
Speaker 2: Well, George, as long as I've been involved with When
Speaker 2: I first got involved with George, we went I mean
Speaker 2: besides a couple of amphitheaters that it played for me
Speaker 2: in early early on when I was promoting him in
Speaker 2: theaters right after he got out of the Hunky Tonk.
Speaker 2: But how I really got involved with George is creating
Speaker 2: the George Drake Country Music Festival. It started out as
Speaker 2: a one day stadium show in San Antonio that led
Speaker 2: to an annual eighteen concerts a year throughout the United
Speaker 2: States and stadiums. George was the first country stadium act
Speaker 2: ever to do a stadium tour.
Speaker 1: Tell me about that first gig in San Antonio.
Speaker 2: Well, it was George, as I remember, George, Leanne Rihimes.
Speaker 2: I mean, we had a whole bunch of people. I
Speaker 2: don't even remember who was on this show, but it
Speaker 2: was a bunch and we sold out the Alamodome and
Speaker 2: George had such a good time, and then he goes,
Speaker 2: let's do it again. Then I think the second year
Speaker 2: I added Dallas and Glenn Helen the Amphitheater that we
Speaker 2: had back then because it was so big. And then
Speaker 2: finally after the Glenn Helen show, I'll know, George and
Speaker 2: I went to play golf with Howard Rose and a
Speaker 2: friend of his, and I had a proposal for George
Speaker 2: and I said, what do you think? He goes, how
Speaker 2: many shows should we we do? And I go, I
Speaker 2: don't know, twenty thirty. He goes, how's about we start
Speaker 2: with five or ten? I anyway, we settled on eighteen.
Speaker 2: But that's how it started. I believed in it, and
Speaker 2: you know, the first year I had Tim McGraw, faith
Speaker 2: hilled Dixie Chicks, you know, I had you know, I
Speaker 2: had the who's who of country every year. I mean
Speaker 2: that's where I met you know, Tim Faye, Chesney, the Chicks. Uh,
Speaker 2: that's where I met so many people on those George
Speaker 2: Stree country music festivals.
Speaker 1: Okay, when the first one happened. Were you working with Pace?
Speaker 1: Who were you working with when you started?
Speaker 2: I was Pace, I you know, were we owned most
Speaker 2: of the amphitheaters, and then I started PACE Touring. I
Speaker 2: was always in. I was always in touring one way
Speaker 2: or the other. I mean, back in the day when
Speaker 2: Bruce Cap worked for me, we promoted you know, like
Speaker 2: New Edition the only nw A tour and uh, we
Speaker 2: did a lot of touring. But then I hired John
Speaker 2: Meglan and I started PASTE Touring and the first two
Speaker 2: tours that we did was the George Stay Country Music
Speaker 2: Festival and oz Fest. So that's how we started with
Speaker 2: PACE Touring. So what was your experience with Sharon loved it.
Speaker 2: I love Sharon. I love Sharon. I love Ozzie. I
Speaker 2: mean it was the most fun I've had. I mean,
Speaker 2: I just adore them, and working with her was so
Speaker 2: much fun. And working with Ozzie was so much fun.
Speaker 2: It was I never stopped laughing.
Speaker 1: Okay, Sharon's tough. They had The Osbourne's on MTV. She
Speaker 1: intentionally didn't sign the contracts such that when the show
Speaker 1: was renewed, she held them up for a lot of money.
Speaker 1: Needs to say, her father had a colorful career. What
Speaker 1: was it like being in business with her, being on
Speaker 1: the other side of the fence, And did you learn
Speaker 1: anything from her? In addition, what you.
Speaker 2: Learn is not to get on the other side of her,
Speaker 2: you know, to get on the talk side of her.
Speaker 2: That's the one thing, you know. But I never had
Speaker 2: a problem with Sharon never ever, you know. I mean
Speaker 2: we would just dear friends with each other. She was
Speaker 2: so lovely, just as nice as nice could be. But
Speaker 2: I've seen the other side of her when she you know,
Speaker 2: when she got pissed off at people, Like I said,
Speaker 2: you don't you don't want a blue box from her,
Speaker 2: You don't want a Tiffany box from her?
Speaker 1: How about a golfer? Are you?
Speaker 2: I stopped playing I was never that good. But I've
Speaker 2: had a couple of back surgeries and a couple of
Speaker 2: knee surgeries. Now I'm kind of afraid to play because
Speaker 2: I don't want another back surgery or knee surgery. But
Speaker 2: I mean, I was a hacker. I mean I was
Speaker 2: a fifteen eighteen handicapper and I think the best I
Speaker 2: ever got was maybe twelve. Actually, the last round of
Speaker 2: golf I played, real round of golf I played was
Speaker 2: with Robin Allen who works with Taylor, and Rob Lighte
Speaker 2: and John Meglin at Augusta for two days. So that
Speaker 2: was a long time ago.
Speaker 1: So to what degree have you benefited business wise playing golf?
Speaker 2: Well, it's really difficult because most of the time, even
Speaker 2: though I might have been playing with people, most of
Speaker 2: time I was in the woods, so I didn't really
Speaker 2: have a chance to talk to talk to a lot
Speaker 2: of people, and so I was always looking for my ball. No,
Speaker 2: it was fun. You know, golf is a good community,
Speaker 2: you know, I mean, you know, you spend four hours
Speaker 2: with some people, and you know when Rob light and
Speaker 2: Mitch Slater, not Mitch.
Speaker 1: Slater, Mitch Rose.
Speaker 2: Mitch Rose had their annual golf tournament at Pebble Beach.
Speaker 2: That was nothing but fun. I mean I look forward
Speaker 2: to it every year. So that was fun. And the
Speaker 2: John Barrick, you know the thing, his golf tournament was
Speaker 2: always nothing but fun.
Speaker 1: Okay, So you mentioned Howard Rose and Rob Light. What
Speaker 1: makes a good.
Speaker 2: Agent, a smart agent, one that's detailed like Coward Rose,
Speaker 2: like you know he is. You know how it was
Speaker 2: always so detailed. It wasn't about you know him. The
Speaker 2: same thing. Howard's model was almost like he you know,
Speaker 2: he had a dozen acts at the height of his
Speaker 2: career of fifteen acts and unlike you know, one of
Speaker 2: the big agencies where they I mean they kind of
Speaker 2: are involved, but they're not involved. I mean not when
Speaker 2: you have, you know, in your roster's three thousand acts,
Speaker 2: how can you be involved, you're not. But Howard, you know,
Speaker 2: he had Elton, he had Buffett, he had Chicago, he
Speaker 2: had you know, he had his niche bands and that
Speaker 2: was it. And it was always one at a time shot,
Speaker 2: I mean, one out of one act at a time,
Speaker 2: very similar to the way I'm doing business. Dennis Offer
Speaker 2: is the same way. He's so detailed. You know, he's
Speaker 2: involved in everything. If it's marketing, if it's ticketing, if
Speaker 2: it's you name it. And just like most promoters, the
Speaker 2: same thing. The promoters that have all these you know
Speaker 2: as I call them, turn the page promoters because they
Speaker 2: don't have no idea when a marketing person has you
Speaker 2: know that that's in ames Iowa has thirty shows to
Speaker 2: market at all. At the same time, they're doing a
Speaker 2: shitty job. They're just turning the page to get to
Speaker 2: the next one. And that is I've done that business.
Speaker 2: I've done that. That was my world for a long time.
Speaker 2: But that is not a good world. I know. If
Speaker 2: I was an act, I would not have an agent
Speaker 2: or a promoter that wasn't concentrating on me.
Speaker 1: Okay, so you work with George Straight. Who was the
Speaker 1: next act after George Straight?
Speaker 2: Well, the five I left with was George Straight. I
Speaker 2: had a I wound up having a non compete, a
Speaker 2: two year noncompete, but I was able to call about George,
Speaker 2: the Chicks, Tim McGraw, faith Hill, and Kenny Chesney. So
Speaker 2: that's who I had for the next two years. The
Speaker 2: chicks were on fire. They were selling out everywhere. I
Speaker 2: did the first Soda Soul tour with Timith, faith and
Speaker 2: that's when Kenny was blasting off. You know, he just
Speaker 2: became a headliner. So those are the five acts that
Speaker 2: I started with. And then when my non compete was
Speaker 2: over and I started calling agents again and they were
Speaker 2: telling me, well, you can match you know, clear Channels
Speaker 2: offer or match Bob Ruse offer. I going, you need
Speaker 2: match Bob Ruse offer. I trained him, I taught him,
Speaker 2: you know, and he worked for me as a fucking
Speaker 2: club buyer. Sorry I mean to say so now I
Speaker 2: got to match his offer. I played this band when
Speaker 2: they were opening opening in a club, and so that's
Speaker 2: when I realized. I said to myself, screw this business.
Speaker 2: I only want to work with acts that want to
Speaker 2: work with me. I'm going back to the personal and
Speaker 2: relationship business. That's how I changed my whole thing when
Speaker 2: I started Messina touring.
Speaker 1: So tell me how you built Kenny Chesney.
Speaker 2: Well, I believe in Kenny because I saw him on
Speaker 2: George Straight and I saw the merchandise numbers. I know
Speaker 2: that he was second or third from the bottom. We
Speaker 2: had like a seven X show and people were eighty
Speaker 2: five percent of the stadium was full, and he went
Speaker 2: on every night and he was out selling everybody else
Speaker 2: but George Straight and merchandise, and we just chipped away
Speaker 2: with Kenny. I had him on George Straight for two years,
Speaker 2: and then I had him on the Tim McGraw Amphitheater
Speaker 2: tour and then Wet headlining, and we played everywhere. I mean,
Speaker 2: if it was a four thousand seedar, five thousand seedar,
Speaker 2: ten thousand sedar, we just kept on building and building
Speaker 2: it and building it, and then we took the shot.
Speaker 2: We played him at neil And Stadium in Knoxville, and
Speaker 2: we did the like almost seventy thousand people and everybody,
Speaker 2: you know, because back then I couldn't even get anybody
Speaker 2: to open for Kenny. You know, what do you mean?
Speaker 2: You know he's a wanna be everybody. You know, just
Speaker 2: no one believed in Kenny Chesney. The only people believed
Speaker 2: in Kenny Chesney was Kenny Chesney, Clintonheim, Joe Galante and myself.
Speaker 2: There was very few people that had belief in him,
Speaker 2: but his fans loved him. And here we are now
Speaker 2: this summer will be twenty five years with Kenny, and
Speaker 2: he just gives it it all man. And you know,
Speaker 2: if you ever been to his show, he's a hard worker,
Speaker 2: just like Taylor. His work ethic is unbelievable. You know
Speaker 2: he's involved. If he doesn't talk to me, he's talking
Speaker 2: to Kate McMahon, Roan McMahon. He's talking. He's calling them
Speaker 2: direct about what about this idea, what about that idea?
Speaker 2: What about so and sofa support? You know he is involved.
Speaker 2: The other day, I mean, we got this ridiculous offer
Speaker 2: for somebody and he called me up. He says, what
Speaker 2: do you think. I go, well, you want the truth
Speaker 2: or you want to lie? And he goes, I want
Speaker 2: the truth. I go, I wouldn't do it. I go.
Speaker 2: We can always make money, Kenny. But this is if
Speaker 2: we do this show and it underperforms, which I think
Speaker 2: it will because of the city you going to, you're
Speaker 2: gonna be bitching at me the whole summer. And we've
Speaker 2: got an unbelievable summer coming up. We always end in Foxboro.
Speaker 2: We're doing three stadium three shows in Foxboro this year
Speaker 2: at Jollette Stadium and they're completely sold out. I go,
Speaker 2: and if we add another show, you're gonna hate it
Speaker 2: because it's outside of your normal what you normally do.
Speaker 2: You're routie and all you need to think about is
Speaker 2: all year is why did I book this show? And
Speaker 2: he goes, fuck it, I'm not doing it, and he
Speaker 2: didn't do it, you know.
Speaker 1: A little bit more specific, what was wrong with the show?
Speaker 2: It was a it was a B market for a
Speaker 2: lot of money, and I didn't think I thought I
Speaker 2: would wouldn't do well because the market was not that
Speaker 2: great of a market to begin with, and and I
Speaker 2: thought I thought the show would be good for thirty
Speaker 2: five thousand tickets.
Speaker 1: Okay, Kenny, even at this laid date, does not play
Speaker 1: only stadiums, So mix up the stadium with other places.
Speaker 1: What's the logic there?
Speaker 2: He Well, there's a lot of places that hey don't
Speaker 2: have stadiums be you know, like doing this off cycle,
Speaker 2: we always go back to the secondary markets and play
Speaker 2: you know this last year back where I come from,
Speaker 2: we played all secondary markets arenas, and then we just
Speaker 2: normally mix up amphitheaters and stadiums during the summertime when
Speaker 2: it's a stadium run where we'll play a stadium on
Speaker 2: Saturday and play an amphitheater on a Wednesday, because you know,
Speaker 2: there's no stadium in Raleigh, there's no stadium in Little
Speaker 2: Rock or or Phoenix that we should go play. I mean,
Speaker 2: the Amphitheater is the better play for Kenny, you know,
Speaker 2: And that's just it. And there's only somebody, you know,
Speaker 2: I don't think with Kenny, we can play a Wednesday
Speaker 2: night in a stadium where we need to be on
Speaker 2: a Friday Saturday night. And there's only so many Fridays
Speaker 2: and Saturdays each week, you know, So we you know,
Speaker 2: we do twenty two stadiums in about fifteen amphitheaters every year.
Speaker 2: I'm not every year, every other year, because he's in
Speaker 2: every other year cycle. When it comes to state, how.
Speaker 1: Do you decide on in every other year's cycle.
Speaker 2: Well, don't wear out you're welcome, you know. I mean,
Speaker 2: if you you know, if you if you you know,
Speaker 2: don't see him this year, tickets will go and sale
Speaker 2: for next year in about two months, you know, after
Speaker 2: the show. So that's it. So we're you know, we're
Speaker 2: trying to keep the markets fresh for him, so we
Speaker 2: don't just burn out the markets. I mean, like a
Speaker 2: lot that's that's the unfortunately, well a lot of country acts,
Speaker 2: you know, it's just you look at that lineup, it's
Speaker 2: this it's the same rethread shows every year. Every year,
Speaker 2: every year, and sooner or later, these acts just burn out.
Speaker 2: You know, it's just like they just become they can
Speaker 2: become B level acts.
Speaker 1: Okay, so you play the stadium in Knoxville. When you
Speaker 1: start playing more stadiums, Taylor's out totally alone. Okay, how
Speaker 1: did you build those shows to sell them? And now
Speaker 1: when Kenny doesn't even need the opening acts, how do
Speaker 1: you build this show?
Speaker 2: We try to find someone that compliments Kenny and his audience.
Speaker 2: You know, it came from my Texas Jam days of
Speaker 2: giving people value for their money, seeing the when George
Speaker 2: Strait Country Music Festival, or George and Chris Stapleton giving
Speaker 2: them value for their money. Where this year it's it's Kenny,
Speaker 2: Zach Brown, Megan Maroney and Uncle Cracker. We're giving people
Speaker 2: value for their money, you know, two headliners. And so
Speaker 2: that's Kenny's shows more or bigger than Kenny himself because
Speaker 2: he turned them into events and it's sort of an
Speaker 2: annual thing that people are It's kind of like Coachella.
Speaker 2: People are going to Coachella because they're going to Coachella
Speaker 2: because it's fun. You know, it's an event. Kenny shows
Speaker 2: are events, even when they play the amphitheaters. You know,
Speaker 2: it's kind of like Buffett had it. You know, people
Speaker 2: look forward that was their one day vacation every year.
Speaker 2: You know, they're in town vacation. And that's how Kenny is.
Speaker 2: You know, Like we go to New York. I mean
Speaker 2: he sold at MetLife Stadium. He's the number one selling
Speaker 2: artist in the history of Metlight Stadium. I think he's
Speaker 2: number three and over all the Old Giants Stadium and
Speaker 2: MetLife behind Springsteen and the Dead. I believe that's in
Speaker 2: New York City on Jersey. That's amazing. Stady in Philly, Pittsburgh,
Speaker 2: all these markets that he's built, Tampa. I mean, he's
Speaker 2: just built built this brand. You know, No Shoes Nation
Speaker 2: is real.
Speaker 1: So other than Taylor, who can sell as many tickets as.
Speaker 2: Kenny, George at Sharon, who else do I have up there?
Speaker 2: Eric Church is going to be there, The Lumineers is
Speaker 2: going to be there. I don't know. I mean they
Speaker 2: all have their own you know, like no one's going
Speaker 2: to be his biggest tailor. Ever, no one's going to
Speaker 2: be the biggest tailt she believe it or not, she
Speaker 2: hasn't even got to where she's going I always tell it.
Speaker 2: I tell her that every year. She hasn't even got
Speaker 2: to where she's gone yet. She's amazing. Idre George, you know,
Speaker 2: he's in this thirty fifth year of touring and still
Speaker 2: on top of the world. He doesn't tour seven shows
Speaker 2: a year, eight shows a year, so he doesn't tour.
Speaker 2: People said he retired, and he goes. I never, He
Speaker 2: never said he retired. He retired from doing an organized tour,
Speaker 2: but he goes, I'm always going to do shows, special shows,
Speaker 2: and you know we do seven, eight, nine shows a year.
Speaker 1: How did the Stapleton George straight thing come together?
Speaker 2: Well, George has respect for Chris. Chris has a respect
Speaker 2: for George, and you know it was magical. I mean,
Speaker 2: Chris opening for George because he loves it. They do
Speaker 2: great business together and probably that's the only act Chris
Speaker 2: would ever open for. But it's out of respect and
Speaker 2: they're magical together. But you're not the promoter for Chris. Correct, No,
Speaker 2: I'm not yet.
Speaker 1: Yeah, as they say, a matter of time, Okay, you
Speaker 1: walk with these five acts.
Speaker 2: Now the no.
Speaker 1: Compete is over. Who's the next act?
Speaker 2: Well, the act that I took on tour was Nickelback
Speaker 2: and I did like one one tour, but it was
Speaker 2: like five cycles of that one tour, and we sold
Speaker 2: that everywhere. I mean we sold that everywhere, every every
Speaker 2: arena across the country. And then you know, and then
Speaker 2: they got the goofball offer from I think it was
Speaker 2: it might have been still Clear Channel back then, and
Speaker 2: or it might have been Live Nation, not sure. And
Speaker 2: I remember when I was with their manager and I
Speaker 2: was with my Wiki and Randy Phillips, and they told
Speaker 2: the number that they were getting, which was more than
Speaker 2: the band was actually grossing. And like Wiki and Randy goes, oh,
Speaker 2: we have to have it. We'll match the off. I go, no,
Speaker 2: we're not. I go, not a shot there. I go,
Speaker 2: we didn't evengross that And you want to match the offer?
Speaker 2: What are you insane? And so anyway, that was another
Speaker 2: case where actually there's a resurgence Nickelback now, but they
Speaker 2: just ran that act in the ground, you know, because
Speaker 2: same thing, they had to play X amount of shows,
Speaker 2: you know, they had to work off that debt, and
Speaker 2: that's not how to build a career.
Speaker 1: How'd you end up going to business with ag.
Speaker 2: Well, I knew I needed I had a good run
Speaker 2: with Pace. I mean I started Pace Concerts with Alan,
Speaker 2: and like I told you earlier, Meglin worked for me
Speaker 2: at Pace Touring. Then he left because he and I
Speaker 2: got the first Spice Girls tour and all the agents
Speaker 2: were uproar, and I remember Sillimon telling John and I
Speaker 2: y'all got y'all can't do the Spice Girls. And we went, yes,
Speaker 2: we can, and and and John basically says, I quit.
Speaker 2: And then then Syllomon just told Meglin. He goes, oh,
Speaker 2: we'll just get Louie to do it. I go, nope,
Speaker 2: I'm not doing it, you know. And so John left
Speaker 2: and started Concerts West with Paul Gongaware. And I literally
Speaker 2: happened to be walking in La and Beverly Hills and
Speaker 2: I'm walking across the street and I see John and
Speaker 2: Paul and I've known them forever, I mean, as long
Speaker 2: as I've been in the business. From the original Concerts West,
Speaker 2: they go, you should come to work with us, I go,
Speaker 2: y'all can't afford me. So I knew Tim my wiki
Speaker 2: through early on days. His brother used to work at
Speaker 2: the back of the Summit with the Arrows, and so
Speaker 2: I knew Tim and I met with him when I
Speaker 2: left Pace when Clear Channel excuse me, or it was
Speaker 2: Clear Channel then, and then of course they were threatened
Speaker 2: to be sued for tortuous interference. And then my wiki
Speaker 2: said just come back when you deal's done, you know,
Speaker 2: And I don't know. I felt like I needed to
Speaker 2: have an infrastructure and the finances to do what I
Speaker 2: wanted to do where I knew I could run a
Speaker 2: small company but not play on the on the scale
Speaker 2: that I wanted to play. So, you know, so I
Speaker 2: went with Tim. It was, you know, probably owned company,
Speaker 2: and I loved him. I mean, he's a he's a
Speaker 2: rain maker, you know. And and Randy Phillips, who I've
Speaker 2: known forever. It was just a great match for me.
Speaker 2: So I went into business with them.
Speaker 1: Okay, subsequent to nickelback then what comes?
Speaker 2: Wow? Man, now you're making uh making my head spin.
Speaker 1: Now, let me ask a questions differently the acts you
Speaker 1: have now, Yeah, because now you're in the career business.
Speaker 1: How many other acts did you promote that you no
Speaker 1: longer promote in your post Clear Channel world?
Speaker 2: Oh shit, all but I promoted almost every act all
Speaker 2: but you know, all but the twelve acts I have,
Speaker 2: I pretty much promoted everybody you know that started with
Speaker 2: anybody that was on the road before the year two
Speaker 2: thousand I promoted. I mean, you know.
Speaker 1: I'm talking after that. Now you're done with Clear Channel.
Speaker 1: You're in the Louis Messina business. You're in the career business.
Speaker 1: You did work with nickelback, they took the big money
Speaker 1: from Live Nation. Did you work with anybody else as
Speaker 1: a tour promoter who you no longer work with?
Speaker 2: Yes, and no longer work with the Chicks, only the
Speaker 2: same thing. They were paid a lot of money and
Speaker 2: God bless them, they're my dear friends. With McGraw, the
Speaker 2: only time I worked with him was doing So to
Speaker 2: Soul because he plays the amphitheaters. And that's the only two,
Speaker 2: the only three acts that I could think of that
Speaker 2: I had and I don't have anymore.
Speaker 1: Okay, who's the first act subsequent to the Big Five
Speaker 1: that you signed that you still work with?
Speaker 2: Taylor?
Speaker 1: Okay? So Taylor is opening for George straight right, right?
Speaker 1: How do you decide that?
Speaker 2: Well, George always likes to have a female on his show.
Speaker 2: Ronnie Millsap was the middle act, and Taylor had a
Speaker 2: song Tim McGraw, and we just put her on and
Speaker 2: simple as that. I mean, the luckiest day of my
Speaker 2: life when you know, I heard a song on the
Speaker 2: radio and I go, what about Taylor Swift? And George went, yeah,
Speaker 2: let's do it. So we put Taylor on our eighteen
Speaker 2: or twenty shows run and no kid. By the third night,
Speaker 2: I knew this girl was going to be a superstar.
Speaker 2: She was a first one. Her work ethic was unbelievable.
Speaker 2: By the third song every night, she had a George
Speaker 2: Straight audience in the palm of our hands. Here is,
Speaker 2: like I've said the story. Here's a seventeen year old
Speaker 2: girl singing about high school breakups and boyfriends and to
Speaker 2: a George Straight audience. And she had them, like I said,
Speaker 2: in her palm of our hands the whole time. And
Speaker 2: she was the first one in the production office every
Speaker 2: morning after she went to radio, writing notes to people
Speaker 2: around the country. She was the last one to leave
Speaker 2: the building every night signing autographs. So she was from
Speaker 2: seventeen years old on the like I said, she just magical.
Speaker 2: That's that's how I met got involved with Tail. I
Speaker 2: just saw the magic.
Speaker 1: Okay, you were convinced. How did you convince Taylor and
Speaker 1: Scott Swift.
Speaker 2: Well, the good thing they got to see me and
Speaker 2: my company work with George Straight and so on Mike Chaos,
Speaker 2: which they are used with most people used so they
Speaker 2: see a nice calm backstage, you know, me walking around
Speaker 2: with a drink in my hand, and you know, everybody
Speaker 2: having a good time, and everybody's relaxed. And and I
Speaker 2: remember Scott Swift would would ask me questions every night,
Speaker 2: what about this? What about that? How do you do this?
Speaker 2: How do you do that? You know? And I got
Speaker 2: to no tailor, and and Andrea, you know, I just
Speaker 2: we just became friends, that's all. And then I was
Speaker 2: such a big believer in her. And and then it's
Speaker 2: so funny. I'm shocked that I have it because then
Speaker 2: I convinced Kenny to put a put her on his
Speaker 2: tour and and she was so excited, she said, you
Speaker 2: know the day I told her, we're in in Fresno
Speaker 2: in Texas, uh at the soccer stadium she had opened
Speaker 2: for Kenny that weekend. And I negotiated the deal with
Speaker 2: back then Scott Borshadow was the manager with Scott and
Speaker 2: to be on the tour, and Taylor came up the greatest,
Speaker 2: happiest day of my life. And then a couple of
Speaker 2: months before the on sale, we just saw in this
Speaker 2: massive deal with Corona Beer. Massive, I mean Buffett had
Speaker 2: just left. And then and so they called me and
Speaker 2: said who is opening for Kenny? And I said, proudly,
Speaker 2: I say Taylor Swift and they go, hold is she?
Speaker 2: I go, well, she's gonna be eighteen in December. Go well,
Speaker 2: we can't have that. And I tried everything to keep
Speaker 2: her on that tour, but didn't work. Her eighteenth birthday,
Speaker 2: I was in Nashville at her birthday party, and she
Speaker 2: locked eyes with me. See she walked in the door,
Speaker 2: and she made her way, you know, besides saying hello
Speaker 2: and hugging everybody directly towards me, put some arms around me.
Speaker 2: And he goes, Louis, no one's ever broken my heart,
Speaker 2: but you broke my heart. I go, well, this is
Speaker 2: the end of my career. A tail square, you know.
Speaker 2: But we had a nice little gift for her a
Speaker 2: matter of fact, and it was her lead story in
Speaker 2: the Time magazine how she said that Kenny gave her
Speaker 2: this big check. You know that we all chipped in.
Speaker 2: Kenny and I chipped in together. And she goes, you know,
Speaker 2: and she's referred to me as Kenny Chesney's promoter, not
Speaker 2: who was also my promoter. But I wasn't back then,
Speaker 2: and then she was just blown away, that's all, you know.
Speaker 2: And then when it was time for her to ready
Speaker 2: to go on tour, you know, they met with their
Speaker 2: agent and then the next day they called me, can you
Speaker 2: come to Nashville? And so I met with Scott Andrea
Speaker 2: brushetta business manager, and we had a great meeting. Andrew says,
Speaker 2: come with me, hop in a car, go out to
Speaker 2: their house and Taylor is at home in a pajamas
Speaker 2: and played me to Fearless record and that was it, man,
Speaker 2: you know, end of story. I mean, it was just magical.
Speaker 2: It's always been magical. And I'm lucky guy.
Speaker 1: So Ed Sheard ends up opening for Taylor, you end
Speaker 1: up becoming his promoter. How did he get on the
Speaker 1: bill and how did you become the promoter?
Speaker 2: Well, Taylor picked him out, I'll be honest. I didn't
Speaker 2: know who had Sharon was okay? So so I same thing.
Speaker 2: I saw him the first night because I'm always watching
Speaker 2: I'm always out watching the audience in the autist and
Speaker 2: so I'm watching that sharing and places going crazy. I mean,
Speaker 2: he was not big in the United States at all.
Speaker 2: I mean, he had the A team and that was
Speaker 2: sort of a hit over here, and and I just
Speaker 2: saw the audience going crazy for him, and he and
Speaker 2: I just became friends. I mean, he would ride my
Speaker 2: bus every night, you know, because he had nothing to do.
Speaker 2: He was my drinking buddy back then. And he did
Speaker 2: forty five minutes and you know, Ed Edward play five hours.
Speaker 2: He would play another two hours on my bus every
Speaker 2: night or three hours. And we just, you know, I
Speaker 2: just we were in we were in in Jersey, I
Speaker 2: think at Prudential and it was rainy and cold outside
Speaker 2: and ed was literally sitting on the sidewalk and I'm
Speaker 2: on my bus. What Sarah went to who works with me,
Speaker 2: and Haley mcallis there. She sees Ed's just sitting on
Speaker 2: on the sidewalk and she goes, what are you doing?
Speaker 2: He goes, I missed my ride. So he's just sitting
Speaker 2: there by himself in the cold, in the rain, smoking
Speaker 2: a cigarette. Come on the bus, have a drink. And
Speaker 2: Susie walks on the bus. I looked at him and go,
Speaker 2: you don't know this ship. But I'm going to be
Speaker 2: your promoter. And then and Sarah goes, I'm gonna I'm
Speaker 2: going to market to your whole tour. And then I goes, seriously,
Speaker 2: you want to take me on? I went, hell yeah,
Speaker 2: And I'll never forget. The next day, Stewart Camp goes,
Speaker 2: I understand that you were talking to my autist. I go, no,
Speaker 2: that wasn't me, that was Jack Daniels talking to him.
Speaker 2: You know, I would never you know, And so so
Speaker 2: anyway we struck up a conversation and I'll never forget.
Speaker 2: Ed and I are talking and Taylor walks up to
Speaker 2: the two of us and he goes, what do y'all do?
Speaker 2: And I go, I just you know, bssen And Taylor
Speaker 2: looks at it and he goes, is Louie trying to
Speaker 2: hustle you? And Ed goes, yeah, he is. Actually she goes, well,
Speaker 2: you should pay attention to him because I've never made
Speaker 2: so much money in my life, you know, since I've
Speaker 2: worked with him, and he's really the best, so you
Speaker 2: should you should pay attention to what he has to say.
Speaker 2: And you know that was it, you know, I mean,
Speaker 2: we're we're still best of friends to this day. I
Speaker 2: mean Ed and I've been together, I know, it's like
Speaker 2: ten twelve years, and he's just he's adorable man. You know,
Speaker 2: he's like my son, He's like my best friend. And
Speaker 2: I just love him to death. I love his manager,
Speaker 2: you know, I love his parents. It's just one of
Speaker 2: those things.
Speaker 1: Okay. Earlier in her career, did Live Nation make one
Speaker 1: of those stupid offers to Taylor.
Speaker 2: Were to d or any early late in the middle, Yeah,
Speaker 2: they did. But Tail always bet on herself.
Speaker 1: Okay, betting on herself meaning.
Speaker 2: She's going to control her career and not that's it.
Speaker 1: Okay, you end up making a deal with Eric Church.
Speaker 1: Eric Church is Q Prime Nashville, but it's part of
Speaker 1: Q Prime in New York with Cliff and Peter, and
Speaker 1: they really don't like these deals. How did that come about?
Speaker 2: Eric opened for Kenny in the stadium and Kenny told me, Louis,
Speaker 2: you need to get involved with him. This guy's going
Speaker 2: to be a major star. And the same thing. You know,
Speaker 2: I got to know Eric and Catherine, his wife, and
Speaker 2: watching him perform, you know, every weekend, and we just
Speaker 2: became friends. And and then I met with him and
Speaker 2: Pete's his manager, and one thing led to the other.
Speaker 2: That's it, you know, And I said, I want to
Speaker 2: be a promoter. He had a promoter at a time,
Speaker 2: but it wasn't Live Nation, but Live Nation went after
Speaker 2: him big time. But that's how it went, you know.
Speaker 2: It's just like he saw the work I did. Eric.
Speaker 2: I remember one night he told me, he goes, I
Speaker 2: never thought I'd want to play stadiums Louis, But what's
Speaker 2: bigger than the stadiums? And I go, We'll figure it out,
Speaker 2: you know. But you know, I've been with Eric for
Speaker 2: ten plus years, you know, and trust me, he I
Speaker 2: almost lost him, you know, because you know, one company
Speaker 2: offered this ridiculous amount of money. But after I explained,
Speaker 2: after I explained to him that he's getting paid with
Speaker 2: his own money with a really high interest rate. And
Speaker 2: Eric's a smart guy. So soon as he saw the
Speaker 2: math of things, and he knew the passion I had
Speaker 2: for him, I mean, and he knew where he went
Speaker 2: with me, and so he stayed with me. I thought,
Speaker 2: you know, for a minute, I thought it was it
Speaker 2: was a jump ball, I mean, but it was throughout
Speaker 2: friendship and him knowing how devoted I was to his
Speaker 2: career and to him as a person.
Speaker 1: Now if you listen to Rappino, he has other revenue
Speaker 1: stream sponsorship, etc. And certainly they're paying more money in
Speaker 1: certain cases. Aren't there cases where they can just pay
Speaker 1: more money than you can?
Speaker 2: Well, they do, but they don't. I mean they do
Speaker 2: pay more money. They pay once again this fantasy money,
Speaker 2: you know, non not just down but other companies too,
Speaker 2: non recoupable bonuses, full non recoupable advance bull. All they're
Speaker 2: doing is, you know, the autists are not sharing in
Speaker 2: the rebates. They're not as much as the rebates they'll
Speaker 2: share be shared in the taste. All of a sudden,
Speaker 2: your ticket's on TM plus, you know, like happy inventory
Speaker 2: on TM Plus. And you're right, they have so many
Speaker 2: revenue streams. The amphitheaters. You know, you look at every
Speaker 2: person that goes in there, besides the cost of the ticket,
Speaker 2: everybody that's in there, you can their netting must probably
Speaker 2: be sixty to eighty dollars ahead on people that walk
Speaker 2: into amphitheater. So you have fifteen thousand people times sixty
Speaker 2: or eighty dollars ahead. That's so much money they're making
Speaker 2: on the amphitheater. So yeah, they have all this monopoly money,
Speaker 2: and so they're pretending they're given to you in a dance,
Speaker 2: but they really are. They're just giving you your own money.
Speaker 2: And autists don't understand that. I lost two autists of
Speaker 2: one stadium artists and because I had the deal, handshake deal,
Speaker 2: but all of a sudden they came in and go,
Speaker 2: here's this check. And the artist called, He goes, Lookias Harts.
Speaker 2: Decision I had to make in my life. But I can't.
Speaker 2: You know, I couldn't say no. I go, have you
Speaker 2: already committed? He goes, yeah, I had to because they
Speaker 2: made me commit. I go, well, best of luck to you,
Speaker 2: you know. And you know, I mean, when someone's given
Speaker 2: this massive check or not at one time, but they're saying, here,
Speaker 2: we'll guarantee you this, it's hard to say no unless
Speaker 2: the artist is smart enough to peel back the layers.
Speaker 2: And I just just now this year, not too many
Speaker 2: months ago, I had this artist done and we shook
Speaker 2: hands everything, and all of a sudden, five million dollars
Speaker 2: non recoupable signing bonus, you know, versus a ninety five
Speaker 2: to five, And you know, and I went, what the
Speaker 2: hell are y'all doing? I mean, why you know, like,
Speaker 2: you can't make that much money, and they're gonna see
Speaker 2: where half their tickets are going to be on TM
Speaker 2: plus half they're too you know, it's it's just not
Speaker 2: it's just not Live Nation. And you know, my partner's
Speaker 2: ag they play the same game. But you know, autists
Speaker 2: just don't understand where there's no such thing as free money.
Speaker 2: There's no such thing as free money. And that's what
Speaker 2: autists have to understand. But it's hard when they go here,
Speaker 2: here's this money, but you don't have to pay it back. Well,
Speaker 2: they don't know I could steal so much money from
Speaker 2: every artist every night. They wouldn't have a clue, you know,
Speaker 2: but I don't.
Speaker 1: And let's assume you did. Where would you steal it?
Speaker 2: Oh, everywhere building deals rebates. I mean that's where I would,
Speaker 2: you know, that's where I would get it. Instead of
Speaker 2: get X amount in rebates, I would give the audits
Speaker 2: a taste and keep the rest. And instead of you know,
Speaker 2: giving them discounted rent, I would charge them rec rade
Speaker 2: on rent and just keep the rest. But that's not
Speaker 2: how I work, but that that is how other companies work.
Speaker 2: I know it.
Speaker 1: So the acts ever come to you and you say no,
Speaker 1: I don't want to work with you.
Speaker 2: There's been a few I just didn't want, you know,
Speaker 2: I didn't have I have to be passionate about the act.
Speaker 2: I have to. I have to be passionate about it,
Speaker 2: and they have to be passionate about me too. They
Speaker 2: have to want to work with me, and I have
Speaker 2: to want to work with them, and they have to
Speaker 2: invite me into their world, because if they don't, I
Speaker 2: can't do them. I can't think what's inside their heads.
Speaker 2: I just can't think what's inside They have to tell
Speaker 2: me what's inside their heads. If they let me into
Speaker 2: their world, I'm just going to try to make it
Speaker 2: bigger for them. That's what I tried to do. But yes,
Speaker 2: so there's been acts. They're going, what do you want
Speaker 2: to do with me? I go, I don't know what.
Speaker 2: Let's talk about it. You know, I don't know what
Speaker 2: let's talk about You know, what is your plans? I mean,
Speaker 2: you've known what you want to do since the first
Speaker 2: time you picked up a guitar or you know, played
Speaker 2: a one note on a piano or saying one note.
Speaker 2: So yeah, I've passed on a bunch of acts. If
Speaker 2: you want to honestly, probably I passed on two three
Speaker 2: acts a year. I'm just not don't think I can
Speaker 2: run with it.
Speaker 1: Okay, you talked about your bus and edge Sharon riding
Speaker 1: in your bus. Your acts go on the road. How
Speaker 1: often are you with the show?
Speaker 2: I am one year, I was on the road like
Speaker 2: two hundred and sixty days. Most of the time, I'm
Speaker 2: between one d one hundred and fifty days a year
Speaker 2: something like that.
Speaker 1: And you do you own a jet.
Speaker 2: I don't own a jet, but I've got you know,
Speaker 2: I've got to deal with net jet. That's what I
Speaker 2: deal you know, a you know, a card, you know,
Speaker 2: on a fractional share. Right, Yeah, So your acts are
Speaker 2: on the road. Are you in the bus or you
Speaker 2: flying in for the gig. I'm usually flying to the gig.
Speaker 2: Then I go on the bus. You know. If I'm
Speaker 2: doing multiple nights, I stay on the bus. I never
Speaker 2: get a I never check into a hotel, you know.
Speaker 2: So the bus is my home, my office, you know,
Speaker 2: and that's that's what I do. Then I'll fly home.
Speaker 1: Okay. Do you have your own bus like Willie Nelson
Speaker 1: or you get a new bus when you're on the road.
Speaker 2: No, I have my own bus, and how.
Speaker 1: Is your bus fitted out?
Speaker 2: It's pretty cool, you know. I mean it's you know,
Speaker 2: it's a double slide out. It's got a front lounge,
Speaker 2: it's got two bathrooms, four bunks, and a queen's size
Speaker 2: bed in the back, full shower. I mean, I know,
Speaker 2: it's got everything. It's like, you know, everything but room service.
Speaker 2: And I got room service anyway, because I go to show,
Speaker 2: I call the runner as I go pick me up
Speaker 2: a hamburger or something. So and you know, there's a
Speaker 2: refrigerator of microwave oven on my bus, so I can
Speaker 2: cook on my bus too.
Speaker 1: So when you're on the road, you're on the bus.
Speaker 1: How many people are on your bus?
Speaker 2: Most of the time it's just me, or if someone's riding,
Speaker 2: you know, I mean, I could have my staff riding
Speaker 2: with me, or somebody needs a rod, you know, time
Speaker 2: it's me.
Speaker 1: Okay, you talk about eating a hamburger. We're in our seventies. Now,
Speaker 1: How is your health and you're eating this road food?
Speaker 1: Tell me about that.
Speaker 2: Actually, my health is really good and I don't eat
Speaker 2: that much. Is very red I eat catering, you know,
Speaker 2: and most of the time I just order out. You know,
Speaker 2: from a restaurant, you know, if it's you know, if
Speaker 2: it's Eddy V's or you know, whatever the good restaurant
Speaker 2: is that's close to the venue. You know, I'll just
Speaker 2: order out and have a good meal. It's very rare.
Speaker 2: I'm you know, schlupping down pizzas at the end of
Speaker 2: the night, you know, and just eating junk, junk, junk.
Speaker 2: It's you know. And then I stopped drinking over a
Speaker 2: year ago, so that's that's made me a lot better
Speaker 2: and more coherent. So my health is great. You know.
Speaker 2: I'm you know, just wear and tearing my body. That's all,
Speaker 2: you know, knees them back.
Speaker 1: Okay, the being goes off the stage at eleven. They're
Speaker 1: playing the next night somewhere. What's your routine?
Speaker 2: Usually routine is, I'll hang on the bus in the beginning,
Speaker 2: have the building come up, you know, do a little
Speaker 2: you know, song, and dance with them. If then it
Speaker 2: depends on the act, if it's George or Eric or Kenny,
Speaker 2: I'll go hang out with them for half hour, hour,
Speaker 2: two hours and you know, just shoot the ship and
Speaker 2: talk about life. That's what I do. And then if
Speaker 2: we have a show next night, I'd just go back
Speaker 2: on my bus, go to sleep, wake up at the
Speaker 2: gig the next day, and do it all over again.
Speaker 1: Okay, gigs over at eleven? What time would you be
Speaker 1: in your bus?
Speaker 2: Eleven oh two? And then I know I'll go usually
Speaker 2: go on my bus and then let the autist you know,
Speaker 2: cool off, and usually they have their little you know,
Speaker 2: their gassed and then then you know, I'll go go
Speaker 2: on their bus or they'll come on my bus and
Speaker 2: we just hang out.
Speaker 1: If the dig is over to eleven, at what point
Speaker 1: do you put your head on the pillow?
Speaker 2: Could be twelve, it could be four o'clock in the morning.
Speaker 1: You know, inherently on the road it's hard to sleep.
Speaker 1: So how's your situation with sleep?
Speaker 2: I have a comfortable bus. I mean it's good. I
Speaker 2: don't know, you know, since I stopped drinking before, it
Speaker 2: wasn't sleeping, it was just passing out. But I sleep
Speaker 2: good on the bus. I love my bus, you know.
Speaker 2: I mean, it's a queen size bed. I've got a
Speaker 2: tell you know, huge TV back there. I mean, it's
Speaker 2: it's definitely home away from home. I love it.
Speaker 1: Well, are you looking forward to getting home to a
Speaker 1: normal life or do you do you feel like you're
Speaker 1: burning your candle on both ends on the road or
Speaker 1: could you stay on the road indefinitely?
Speaker 2: Now, this year I picked and choose because I had,
Speaker 2: you know, Taylor, ED and Straight playing at the same time.
Speaker 2: So I was only gone, you know, like two days
Speaker 2: a week because I couldn't go to because they all
Speaker 2: played on Saturday night, you know. And and so I
Speaker 2: would go to George one weekend, Taylor one weekend, ED
Speaker 2: one weekend, and you know, That's what I did the
Speaker 2: whole summer. You know. So this summer, as busy as
Speaker 2: I was, it was probably was the lightest the least.
Speaker 2: I think I was under one hundred shows this year
Speaker 2: because I didn't stay at all seven Taylor Swift shows
Speaker 2: or six shows.
Speaker 1: Okay, do you watch the show?
Speaker 2: Absolutely? Absolutely watch the show, you know, I mean, do
Speaker 2: I watch one hundred center of this show? Not every night?
Speaker 2: But am I out there. That's where I'm getting my education,
Speaker 2: and that's where honestly, I'm watching the opening acts, I'm
Speaker 2: watching and I'm watching the artists. I mean, I know
Speaker 2: George's set list by hard, Taylor is set list by heart. Kenny,
Speaker 2: I'm always you know, and you know, and yeah, that's
Speaker 2: what I do. I mean, I have nothing else to do.
Speaker 2: I really have nothing to do at a show because
Speaker 2: my job is done. You know, I'm working on next
Speaker 2: year in a year after. And my team you know who,
Speaker 2: because I assigned a team to every autist. They're the
Speaker 2: ones that are doing all the work to day of
Speaker 2: the show. I always say, if I got something to
Speaker 2: do day to show, I didn't do my job. And
Speaker 2: so I'm there really bored as crap at the show.
Speaker 2: But the only thing I have is the entertainment, so
Speaker 2: which I love because when I walk into a sold
Speaker 2: out stadium, I'm I'm a pre o Papa man. You know.
Speaker 2: I always say, that's my Academy award, that's my Grammy.
Speaker 2: When I see, you know, fifty five, sixty thousand people
Speaker 2: or fifteen thousand people in an arena, I just there's
Speaker 2: nothing like nothing more exciting than seeing that energy in
Speaker 2: a facility.
Speaker 1: Okay, you go to bed in the bus. What time
Speaker 1: do you wake up?
Speaker 2: It could be eight o'clock in the morning, and now
Speaker 2: that I don't drink anymore, usually it's eight o'clock in
Speaker 2: the morning before who knows.
Speaker 1: And you wake up, what do you do you immediately
Speaker 1: jump on the phone.
Speaker 2: You know, most of the time I'm on it. It's
Speaker 2: the weekend. Yeah, I'm on the phone. Coffee building, people
Speaker 2: come on in and out, my people on in and out,
Speaker 2: my bus all day, you know, to my staff if
Speaker 2: it's the building. But yeah, I'm doing phone work. I'm
Speaker 2: doing you know, you know, responding to emails and doing
Speaker 2: all that stuff and just hanging out. But most of
Speaker 2: my show, you know, most of the time, it's the weekend,
Speaker 2: so there's you know, it's kind of quiet as far
Speaker 2: as the business goes.
Speaker 1: So how many people do work for you?
Speaker 2: We have total between here and Nashville, only forty five people.
Speaker 2: I think it's around forty five.
Speaker 1: And when you talk about your team on the road
Speaker 1: with the act, are those full time employees?
Speaker 2: Yeah? All my employees are full time.
Speaker 1: So are they only working on one act or they
Speaker 1: work on multiple acts?
Speaker 2: Most of them just work on one act the marketing
Speaker 2: people use. Sometimes we'll work on two or three acts. Max.
Speaker 2: It's very rare that the acts that work on overlap
Speaker 2: with each other. You know, where Kate only to actually
Speaker 2: works on is George Straight and Kenny Chesney. Kate McMahon
Speaker 2: Sarah went to She works on Ed Taylor and Illumineers
Speaker 2: and that's it, you know. Rachel Powells just works on
Speaker 2: Eric and Blake, you know. And that's how I divide
Speaker 2: it up. I mean, and then I have like Mike
Speaker 2: Dugan All he's president of the company, but all he
Speaker 2: does is Taylor, you know, that's his only act Rome.
Speaker 2: All he does is Kenny Chesney. So you know, I
Speaker 2: my road people, they're really only really have one or
Speaker 2: two acts max that they work with and never at
Speaker 2: the same time, Let's.
Speaker 1: Say I call you and I say we're getting on
Speaker 1: the jet. We're going to this island where there's no
Speaker 1: cell service, no internet for two weeks. And let's just
Speaker 1: assume you're enticed by the trip. Can you go for
Speaker 1: two weeks without being connected to your people?
Speaker 2: If Christine allows me to go. Yes, I've got a
Speaker 2: great team. I'm not kidding I in what I've done
Speaker 2: with everyone here, I've empowered everyone to make decisions on
Speaker 2: their own. They know what they know the difference between
Speaker 2: right and wrong. I don't have any gunslingers here. We
Speaker 2: know they know my model, I know their model. You know.
Speaker 2: It's like they know the autos so they can make decisions.
Speaker 2: I mean, if something really crazy, they would find a
Speaker 2: way to get to me. But the answer is yes,
Speaker 2: I could turn I could. Like last week, I just
Speaker 2: I said, screw it, I'm not you know, I went
Speaker 2: to my ranch, my ranch by places dripping springs and
Speaker 2: got on my skits theer and I pulled up ceedar
Speaker 2: trees for three days because I just had to get away. Man.
Speaker 2: You know, I just you know, I just I wanted
Speaker 2: a mindless job to do, and that's what I did.
Speaker 1: If you're in town, does it ever shut down? Or
Speaker 1: is somebody going to be calling you all night? Or
Speaker 1: you're going to pick up the phone?
Speaker 2: No, I won't pick up the call. I mean I
Speaker 2: will if I have a show on the road and
Speaker 2: the phone rings. I was looking to see who's calling.
Speaker 2: But if it's after seven o'clock, I'm not picking up
Speaker 2: the call. I used to I used to be a
Speaker 2: phone junkie, but not anymore because they'll be there tomorrow.
Speaker 1: So why'd you give up drinking?
Speaker 2: I just decided, you know, it wasn't healthy for my
Speaker 2: personal relationship with my wife and family and my you know,
Speaker 2: I'm getting up in the age and I just had
Speaker 2: a good run with Jack Daniels. I just I got
Speaker 2: tired of drinking.
Speaker 1: Have you quit the four?
Speaker 2: Not seriously? But it was never dependent on a drink,
Speaker 2: you know. I always say I'm only drinking when I'm drinking,
Speaker 2: you know. Oh that's why they call it drinking, because
Speaker 2: once I have won, the party starts. But if I
Speaker 2: don't have a you know, I would go a month,
Speaker 2: two months without a drink. But you know, you know
Speaker 2: my environment, I'm usually the first one. I start the
Speaker 2: party and I end the party, you know. But I
Speaker 2: just you know, I mean shit, holding Court. I mean,
Speaker 2: this is gonna be my first Grammys without my first
Speaker 2: Grammy sober. And you know, the Chairman's lounge was was
Speaker 2: that was my roost man. I ruled that that was
Speaker 2: my lounge, you know. And I did more business in
Speaker 2: the Chairman's Lounge than I did, I mean anywhere around
Speaker 2: just you know, just holding Court, and that's where So
Speaker 2: this could be. I don't know. I survived the Kenny
Speaker 2: Chesney Taylors with Ed sheeran George Straight tour without a drink,
Speaker 2: without a drink. I think I can survive the Grammys.
Speaker 1: So what have you noticed has been different. Now since
Speaker 1: you stopped drinking.
Speaker 2: I can remember what I said the night before.
Speaker 1: Okay, to what degree has this gig affected your personal life?
Speaker 2: It's tough, man, you know a lot. I mean, you know,
Speaker 2: it's just when I'm on the road so much, and
Speaker 2: it's a disconnect between myself and my family. And that's
Speaker 2: why I made a commitment that I won't travel as much.
Speaker 2: But this is after fifty one years of doing this,
Speaker 2: so yeah, it's you know, it's affected my life. It's
Speaker 2: really hard to be married to me or to be
Speaker 2: a child of mine because I'm gone to be. Like
Speaker 2: I told you, I was the workaholic guy. That was NonStop.
Speaker 2: I mean the time I woke up in the morning,
Speaker 2: I mean, you know, a cup of coffee in one hand,
Speaker 2: cigarette and the other hand, and just jam and jam
Speaker 2: and jam and jamming. And that was all day and
Speaker 2: all night. And I couldn't do it. I just didn't
Speaker 2: want to do it. When when Christine and I got
Speaker 2: together was you know, it's over twenty years ago. I
Speaker 2: even though, I mean I would cut the phone off
Speaker 2: at a certain time. That's why I started, but I
Speaker 2: still my traveling and it was tough. I mean, we
Speaker 2: we we had a tough time, you know, keeping all
Speaker 2: keeping our relationship together. And that's why I had to
Speaker 2: change things. And you know, that's why I made a
Speaker 2: life change decision as far as drinking, as far as traveling,
Speaker 2: and just I just wanted to change and because I
Speaker 2: love my family and I love what I do and
Speaker 2: I want to do this for a long time.
Speaker 1: How many times you've been married in how many kids
Speaker 1: do you have?
Speaker 2: Oh? Man, okay, I'll be on the four. I've been
Speaker 2: married four times. The third one didn't count though, And
Speaker 2: I have.
Speaker 1: Six kids, and what are those kids up to?
Speaker 2: See? My oldest son. He teaches jiu jitsu and mixed
Speaker 2: martial arts in Katie, Texas. He's got he owns like
Speaker 2: four gyms. Lewis Junior he works here. He oversees Sean
Speaker 2: Mendez in different other projects. Christopher's on the road. He
Speaker 2: works with Todd Stewart who does events, staffing and chairs
Speaker 2: for stadiums. That's what he does. And Barack is in
Speaker 2: transition right now. He just just finished the course. He's
Speaker 2: going into UH as an analyst. That's what he's trying
Speaker 2: to get a job. Is an analyst who with a
Speaker 2: company and My oldest daughter's eighteen. She's graduating this year
Speaker 2: and she'll be going to Sarah Lawrence and she's gonna
Speaker 2: study film. And then Gabrielle is fourteen. She's gonna be
Speaker 2: a superstar on the theater one day, and she's a
Speaker 2: freshman in college in high school.
Speaker 1: So what's your philosophy in terms of financially supporting your children?
Speaker 2: Man, that's a tough I don't really I mean my
Speaker 2: sons I don't support. They're on their own. I mean,
Speaker 2: Lewis is here. I don't know that that's you know,
Speaker 2: you know, when you're talking about estates and stuff, do
Speaker 2: you give it? It's so funny. When I started Pace Concerts,
Speaker 2: I didn't have two Nichols to rub together, right, And
Speaker 2: I moved to Texas, I mean didn't have a penny.
Speaker 2: And everybodybody else they're around me, they were all like
Speaker 2: trust fund kids, and they all had a head start life,
Speaker 2: you know, and I started with negative. I had to
Speaker 2: pay off my parents's debt, you know, even though I
Speaker 2: had three other siblings, I'm the one that paid off
Speaker 2: the bills. And I always made a commitment to myself
Speaker 2: that my kids will never be in that situation where
Speaker 2: I'm going to always you know, they're going to get
Speaker 2: a head start life. Well now that I'm here, I
Speaker 2: mean now I don't want to, like, I don't want
Speaker 2: to enable them to not be driven. You know, I
Speaker 2: don't want to be their retirement. Let me say that.
Speaker 2: But it's a tough one to go. You know. Do
Speaker 2: I give all money in the charity? I don't know.
Speaker 2: You know, they're all doing good, so I don't know.
Speaker 2: I'm not supporting my kids. Let me just say, but
Speaker 2: anytime they need something, I'm always there for them.
Speaker 1: You talked about working twenty four to seven earlier in
Speaker 1: your career. Yeah, if you hadn't worked twenty four to seven,
Speaker 1: would you be where you are today?
Speaker 2: Probably not? You know, probably not. I mean I had
Speaker 2: a lot of good Alan Becker taught me a lot
Speaker 2: about business and life, so I owe him a lot
Speaker 2: of gratitude. But I was always driven. I was always
Speaker 2: always driven, and I never I've never reached my goals
Speaker 2: of my whole career because whenever I get close to
Speaker 2: a goal, I always raised the bar. And I think
Speaker 2: that's why the artists I work for are so successful,
Speaker 2: because I keep on convincing them to raise their bar.
Speaker 2: And you know, my line is tell me your dreams
Speaker 2: and I'll dream you. And I just want to keep them, always,
Speaker 2: never getting to a goal, because if you reach your goal,
Speaker 2: where is there to go to? So I keep on moving,
Speaker 2: I keep on moving.
Speaker 1: The line tell me about paying off your parents' debts.
Speaker 2: Simple as that I had to pay it off.
Speaker 1: Were your parents still alive at that point?
Speaker 2: No, no, no they no, no no no. I only
Speaker 2: have one on one sister that's still alive. My oldest
Speaker 2: sister passed and my brother, oldest brother has passed away,
Speaker 2: and both my parents are pasted. You know, they're gone.
Speaker 2: And so you know, I've got one sister, a lot
Speaker 2: of nieces and nephews in New Orleans and then my family.
Speaker 1: Okay, so you grow up in New Orleans in the
Speaker 1: fifties and sixties. They even have a different legal system.
Speaker 2: In Louisiana, they didn't have a legal system.
Speaker 1: And it's not like they had internet and they don't
Speaker 1: have cable TV at the time. What was it like
Speaker 1: growing up in New Orleans? And how is that different
Speaker 1: from how other people grew up to the degree you know.
Speaker 2: Well, let me say this, my family integrated the neighborhood
Speaker 2: where we were the only white family, like in a
Speaker 2: three block radius or two block radius. But growing up,
Speaker 2: you know, I say, I'm just a kid from the
Speaker 2: streets of New Orleans, and I really am. You know,
Speaker 2: New Orleans was tough. I mean it was tough town.
Speaker 2: I mean it's it's a tough town today. I hate
Speaker 2: going back there, you know. I mean I like going
Speaker 2: back there. I have a show and I'm just going there.
Speaker 2: But man, would I have a move back there? No,
Speaker 2: not a shot. It's it's filthy, it's it's corrupt. It's
Speaker 2: still corrupt, and doing business there is like you know,
Speaker 2: the big things where you from where you at. You know, please, man,
Speaker 2: you know, but it was tough. You know, I don't
Speaker 2: have a lot of great memories from New Orleans. Uh.
Speaker 2: It's it's one of those things that there's no looking
Speaker 2: back there.
Speaker 1: So you'd say it was tough. Was it personally tough?
Speaker 1: Like you getting beaten up and surviving.
Speaker 2: Well, I've had, you know, I'm given a few black
Speaker 2: eyes and I've got a few black eyes, and yeah,
Speaker 2: I mean it was tough, you know. I mean, uh,
Speaker 2: my grandfather was an Italian immigrant. My mom and dad
Speaker 2: hated each other, and it was it was miserable, you know.
Speaker 2: I mean I had a terrible childhood, you know, and
Speaker 2: you know it's just there's not there was never fund
Speaker 2: found memories of of my childhood. You know. There's a
Speaker 2: lot of therapy. I'm still going to to to work
Speaker 2: through my through all my craft, even at my age.
Speaker 1: So do you go to therapy?
Speaker 2: Oh? Absolute?
Speaker 1: So how did you decide to go to therapy?
Speaker 2: Because I knew I couldn't handle this by myself, you know,
Speaker 2: I mean, I've got this thing. I think Richard Lewis
Speaker 2: was the comedian who said this problems. Sure, I've got problems.
Speaker 2: I have fresh problems flown in every day, you know.
Speaker 2: And that's kind of me, you know. I mean, you know,
Speaker 2: trying to balance work, personal, you know, and myself. It's difficult.
Speaker 2: It's being Lewis is a hard time. It was a
Speaker 2: full time job.
Speaker 1: So what have you learned in therapy?
Speaker 2: The biggest lesson I learned in therapy about everything is
Speaker 2: be true to yourself. Is too don't make any commitments
Speaker 2: that would you wouldn't make te yourself, meaning like when
Speaker 2: I stopped drinking, I didn't promise Christine or anybody else,
Speaker 2: I would stop drinking. I promised me to stop drinking.
Speaker 2: You know, when I wanted to do what I'm doing
Speaker 2: now at Messina Touring. This is what I wanted to do.
Speaker 2: I made a commitment and I stayed on my path.
Speaker 2: I didn't try to you know, I'm not still not trying.
Speaker 2: I've got the hottest hand in the business right now,
Speaker 2: right I really do. And I'm not trying to sign
Speaker 2: every act that that's coming my way. You know, it's
Speaker 2: still my model. It's one act at a time, and
Speaker 2: the act that I have to believe in personally believe in,
Speaker 2: and my team has to believe in it too. Because
Speaker 2: it's so funny that last week I was I was
Speaker 2: in Nashville, and because I was a big Milltown fan,
Speaker 2: and I met Barry Gordy Son and I went, oh,
Speaker 2: my gosh, he was excited to meet me. And I
Speaker 2: was like, you know, I grew up and I remember
Speaker 2: reading I mean, there was this documentary with Barry Gordy
Speaker 2: and Smokey Robinson how every week they would, you know,
Speaker 2: people would bring in their songs in and everyone would
Speaker 2: have to agree upon the song, you know, and that's
Speaker 2: kind of how I am around here where my whole
Speaker 2: team has to agree upon the acts that we work with,
Speaker 2: where we're just not going, Oh, Nickelback's coming back out,
Speaker 2: I'm going after them. Oh, I'm going after you know so,
Speaker 2: and so that's not the case. It's got to be
Speaker 2: like I'm staying on course. You know, we believe in
Speaker 2: something and they believe in me. That's what we want
Speaker 2: to be in business with.
Speaker 1: So what kind of kid were you growing up? Did
Speaker 1: you have friends? Were you good at school? Were you
Speaker 1: good at sports? None of the above.
Speaker 2: I was pretty good at sports and basketball and baseball,
Speaker 2: and I had tons of friends. I was very mediocre
Speaker 2: or terrible at school because I hardly ever went and
Speaker 2: and literally, Bruce says, I've learned more from a three
Speaker 2: minute record that I've learned in school. And you know,
Speaker 2: I grew up on the streets, I really did. I'm
Speaker 2: very you know, street savvy. Uh, And that's it was
Speaker 2: tough in New Orleans. I mean no, Yeah, I had
Speaker 2: tons of friends, I had, you know, and I played
Speaker 2: sports year round. But then you know, I couldn't hit
Speaker 2: a curveball, so that was the end of my baseball career.
Speaker 2: And I could, you know, and white men can't jump.
Speaker 2: So I was in my basketball career too.
Speaker 1: So you know, New Orleans has its own unique musical sound.
Speaker 1: Was that something you were aware of and connected to
Speaker 1: growing up?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Yes and no, I mean, of course I listened
Speaker 2: to You know, my dad had a friend, uh, Barry McKinley.
Speaker 2: He had a radio station. He worked at radio station WYLD,
Speaker 2: and he was a disc jockey. He was also a
Speaker 2: concert promoter and he brought in all the our you know,
Speaker 2: R and B acts, and so whenever James Brown would
Speaker 2: come to town, you know, it would be me and
Speaker 2: my six white friends at the James Brown show. And
Speaker 2: so you know me growing up with you know, Fats Domino,
Speaker 2: Ernie Cato, Erna Thomas, and you know those great New
Speaker 2: Orleans artists back then. I mean doctor John and you
Speaker 2: know that was later on. But I grew up listening
Speaker 2: to music and loved it. And so, uh, you know,
Speaker 2: we lived downtown. I lived right by them Miscal Auditorium,
Speaker 2: right about three blocks from the French Quarter. And uh
Speaker 2: Mardi Gras day, like the Mardi Gras Indians would start
Speaker 2: right in front of my house. And so it mean,
Speaker 2: you know, music was always around and I always loved music.
Speaker 2: I mean when I was seven years When I was
Speaker 2: seven years old, I saw Elvis at the Municipal Auditorium
Speaker 2: and that's what got me hooked.
Speaker 1: Man, Okay, you saw Elvis, other than the acts you've
Speaker 1: worked with. Now, what are the two best shows you've
Speaker 1: ever seen?
Speaker 2: Oh? Man, I can't answer that question, you know, I mean, uh,
Speaker 2: you're gonna you.
Speaker 1: Know, well, a couple of memorable shows.
Speaker 2: My most memorable show, it was not even a live show.
Speaker 2: It was the Monterey Pop Festival. The movie That was
Speaker 2: my most memorable show. That show and the Tammy Show,
Speaker 2: those are the two shows that man, that blew me away,
Speaker 2: you know. And I remember one year or so Dick
Speaker 2: Clark's Cavalcade of Stars in New Orleans, and that also
Speaker 2: blew me away because everybody was just doing like one hit,
Speaker 2: you know, to do the house band and everybody doing
Speaker 2: two three songs, and you know, Den it's hard to say.
Speaker 2: I mean, I get off on every show. I mean,
Speaker 2: you know, say, like when I'm at a Taylors show,
Speaker 2: there's nothing like it. And of course then I'm at
Speaker 2: a George Straight show There's nothing like it, you know,
Speaker 2: And Kenny's show, I mean, I just love what I do, man,
Speaker 2: so I can't say this is you know, this show. Yeah,
Speaker 2: seeing Elvis made the most biggest impression on me when
Speaker 2: I was a kid. But I just I don't know everybody.
Speaker 2: I look around my look at you know, pictures on
Speaker 2: my walls, sea, watching the illumineers grow from where I
Speaker 2: first got involved with them to where they are today.
Speaker 2: They're all memorable. Now when you know, the first time
Speaker 2: we played that stadium in Denver, that was memorable. First
Speaker 2: time I put George in the stadium in Phoenix back
Speaker 2: in ninety six or so, that was memorable. And you know, Taylor,
Speaker 2: I've got a picture, right, I got an autograph. I
Speaker 2: was up for a Promoter of the Year or something.
Speaker 2: Just you're my promoter. Thank you, Thank thank you for
Speaker 2: believing I could sell out stadiums, you know. And you
Speaker 2: know her playing Foxborough on her first tour, you know,
Speaker 2: ending a tour at Foxborough, you let stadium and sold out.
Speaker 2: That was memorable. You know. So it's hard, you know.
Speaker 1: So how'd you get into this business?
Speaker 2: So you Elvis, you know, high school, I was promoting
Speaker 2: local bands, local dances and uh and I was on
Speaker 2: a mission to do exactly what I'm doing today on
Speaker 2: a mission.
Speaker 1: How'd you get into it?
Speaker 2: I went to work. I knew I wanted to do this.
Speaker 2: I had no money, had no nothing. I went to
Speaker 2: work at a radio station WWM Radio in New Orleans
Speaker 2: also known as Mother Radio, one of the first FM
Speaker 2: underground radio stations FM station, and so I took a
Speaker 2: job there as a salesman and I started meeting people there,
Speaker 2: you know, meeting record reps and stuff. And I finally
Speaker 2: through this record rep with Warner Bros. Introduced me to
Speaker 2: Joe Sullivan. He was a promoter out of Nashville. He
Speaker 2: had a company called Sound seventy Productions and he came
Speaker 2: down to New Orleans. We met, He had a run
Speaker 2: of dates with Curtis Mayfield and BB King. We did
Speaker 2: the show together and that's how I really got started,
Speaker 2: you know, with Joe sol then taking a shot with me.
Speaker 1: And how did you end up putting together Texas Jam?
Speaker 2: Uh? Data Crabs was doing the cow Jam and he
Speaker 2: calls me up and he goes, I want to what
Speaker 2: do you think about doing the show? Silma is their
Speaker 2: speedway in Texas? I go, yeah, there's one in Brian, Texas.
Speaker 2: And then I went to the cow Jam the year
Speaker 2: before and it was a It was a cluster, man.
Speaker 2: I mean people were knocking over as Ontario Speedway. People
Speaker 2: were knocking over the fences and all that stuff. And
Speaker 2: I'll never forget. I Lone Star Beer had a commercial
Speaker 2: and it was it was taken at the fairgrounds at
Speaker 2: where the Cotton Bowl is. And I saw where the
Speaker 2: hall these rides in the stadium, and I go, screw
Speaker 2: doing this at a at a racetrack. I want to
Speaker 2: do the Cotton Bowl. And so I convinced Crabs and
Speaker 2: that's when he met Aerosmith and Ted Nugent instead of
Speaker 2: playing a racetrack to go to the Cotton Bowl. And
Speaker 2: then we used entire fairgrounds. I mean it was We
Speaker 2: had a skateboard exhibit. We had the world's biggest rock
Speaker 2: and roll movie theater where we were showing concert films
Speaker 2: all day. We had the rock and roll Warehouse where
Speaker 2: Del Ferno, he was our merchant guy back then. He
Speaker 2: brought all his inventory so you could buy almost any
Speaker 2: T shirt you wanted there. And we would allow people
Speaker 2: to come in and out the stadium. And we had
Speaker 2: we had had we had second stages, third stages. It
Speaker 2: was quite the event, you know, And that's how the
Speaker 2: Texas Gym started. You know, even in New Orleans, I
Speaker 2: always loved the event. My first concert stadium concert was
Speaker 2: called the Bayou Boogey Festival. Black Oak, Arkansas was the headliner.
Speaker 2: I had Frampton, Peter Frampton on the show, Bob Sieger
Speaker 2: on the on the show, Wet Willy on the show.
Speaker 2: And this is when before Frampton came alive. Seegar was
Speaker 2: just starting out, and that was at City Park Stadium.
Speaker 2: And yeah, black O'cackansas, Jim Danny to the rescue.
Speaker 1: What was the name of the manager again.
Speaker 2: Butch Stone.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we'll leave it at that. So how are the
Speaker 1: economics at Texas Gym?
Speaker 2: They look good? I mean the first year I did,
Speaker 2: I had the Texas Gym one day and Willie's picking
Speaker 2: the next. I never made so much money in one
Speaker 2: day and I never lost so much money in one day,
Speaker 2: all within the twenty four hour time period. But overall
Speaker 2: it was good. I mean it's not. I mean, I mean,
Speaker 2: ticket prices were twelve dollars, you know, and I finally
Speaker 2: got up to twenty dollars. And I mean, if you
Speaker 2: look at today's you know, with the value of today's money,
Speaker 2: it was totally chump change back then. You know, if
Speaker 2: I made one hundred thousand dollars, I'd have sold eighty
Speaker 2: thousand people. I was a ton of money, you know,
Speaker 2: And but they were good. I just ran out of talent,
Speaker 2: you know, That's what happened. And it's just and I
Speaker 2: got in the amphitheater business, and you can make more
Speaker 2: money selling fifteen thousand tickets that I could sell in
Speaker 2: eighty thousand tickets.
Speaker 1: Why did the Fourth of July picnic fail?
Speaker 2: Not enough people showed up?
Speaker 1: Oh really? Why did why? You know that's a legend.
Speaker 1: I'm not that Texas savvy and he did it for years.
Speaker 1: Was that one of the initial ones? Or are they
Speaker 1: all challenging?
Speaker 2: But you know what, the Willie Picnics were all challenging,
Speaker 2: you know, Oh, mostly artistic successes, you know. Then there
Speaker 2: were financial successes because I did a couple of picnics
Speaker 2: outside of the Texas Jeff. It just didn't work. I
Speaker 2: mean it didn't work, that's all. I mean. I had
Speaker 2: like thirty thousand people there, and yeah, and I had everybody,
Speaker 2: Willie Whaling, Christofferson. I don't know, I'd go, I'll look
Speaker 2: at the poster outside, but it was the Star of Stars.
Speaker 1: You know, So what if one of these festivals, which
Speaker 1: pay more than anything, calls up and wants one of
Speaker 1: your racks to headline the festival, what do you say?
Speaker 2: How much? You know? I had George Straight headline ACL
Speaker 2: festival maybe four years ago. I was there and watching
Speaker 2: and Casey Musgraser was playing and I leaned over and
Speaker 2: I said, we need to have George Straight do this.
Speaker 2: And I told George about it. Don't forget I go, George,
Speaker 2: it'd be a really cool thing for you to do now.
Speaker 2: And George goes, you don't think I'm cool enough now?
Speaker 2: But and we took a haircut doing the show. I mean,
Speaker 2: you know, but I thought it was a cool thing
Speaker 2: for him to do. And he did it, and it
Speaker 2: was an ACL crowd. It wasn't a typical George Straight crowd.
Speaker 2: And everybody was singing every word to every song. It
Speaker 2: was amazing. I mean, just Charles A. Tall says still
Speaker 2: to this day, you know, probably the best headline he's
Speaker 2: ever had.
Speaker 1: Okay, Taylor Swift, they wanted to headline Coachella. You say,
Speaker 1: good luck, you know, I mean, why is there a
Speaker 1: number where you would say, yes.
Speaker 2: Here's the deal. If Taylor wants to play Coachella, she'll
Speaker 2: call me up and say, hey, what do you think
Speaker 2: about playing Coachella. She won't call me, but Robin will
Speaker 2: call me or Andrea call me and say, Taylor wants
Speaker 2: to do some festivals. No, there's no, there's no You
Speaker 2: have no idea. How what ridiculous offers I get for
Speaker 2: Taylor and for George and for all my artists. You know,
Speaker 2: but it's always got to be the right thing. You know.
Speaker 2: If Taylor wants to do a movie, you do a movie.
Speaker 2: You know. If she wants to play festivals, she'll play festivals.
Speaker 2: It's like, but you're not gonna Money's not going to
Speaker 2: drive her to make a decision.
Speaker 1: Okay, So let's say, since you've planned so far in advance,
Speaker 1: and you're in the career business, let's say hypothetically Taylor
Speaker 1: never had another radio hit, how do you, as a promoter,
Speaker 1: plan for the future.
Speaker 2: Taylor is only going to get bigger. I mean, even
Speaker 2: if she never has another hit, which is impossible because
Speaker 2: she always outdoes herself musically. I just know that where
Speaker 2: we're at now, is not the height of where she's
Speaker 2: going to be. That's all I know.
Speaker 1: Okay, Kenny used to have more radio singles than he
Speaker 1: does today. Has that affected his business?
Speaker 2: No, because people are there for Kenny now, you know.
Speaker 2: You know, they're there for the show. They know they're
Speaker 2: getting their money's worth, and we always, like I said,
Speaker 2: we always load up the show. So yeah, if he
Speaker 2: happens to have I mean, like when American Kids was
Speaker 2: you know, a number one song that there's definitely a bump,
Speaker 2: you know, but it's not a game changer.
Speaker 1: Okay, you mentioned David Krabs. We've mentioned some other managers.
Speaker 1: Let's be specific, John Land, Allen Springsteen. Okay, Springsteen hadn't
Speaker 1: toured for years, and that's really Land that was one
Speaker 1: big act and therefore he didn't know, in my viewpoint,
Speaker 1: the landscape as well as somebody who's in the business
Speaker 1: every day, whether it be a promoter or a lawyer
Speaker 1: who's making these deals. How savvy are the managers today?
Speaker 2: Well, the good managers are real savvy, you know. I mean,
Speaker 2: I'll start with thirteen. Management is there's no one manager
Speaker 2: because it's all tail is self managed. But there's basically
Speaker 2: a committee. I mean, Andrew being number two, then Rob It,
Speaker 2: you know, and so they're very savvy, you know, Stuart
Speaker 2: Kemp Edge manager, very savvy. The Lumineers manager, George really
Speaker 2: is self managed. You know, irvs's manager. They've been together
Speaker 2: forty years. But you know, you know, John Petz is
Speaker 2: very savvy. He's very creative with with Eric. Uh and
Speaker 2: I'm just looking around, you know.
Speaker 1: Okay, let me you know, these are all acts you
Speaker 1: work with. Do you find today's business is so complicated
Speaker 1: and changing so much that unless you're doing it every day,
Speaker 1: you don't have a good feel for it.
Speaker 2: But that makes a lot of sense. I mean, I
Speaker 2: think you need to be involved. But so that's a
Speaker 2: good question. I hate when people say it's a good question.
Speaker 2: Why would you ask a bad question? You know, because
Speaker 2: I'm not. I'm only focusing on the acts that I'm
Speaker 2: focusing on. It's like, you know, so I'm not like
Speaker 2: paying attention and going to concerts everywhere or going to
Speaker 2: clubs and stuff like shit out of the blue, Zach
Speaker 2: Bryant popped up. I'm going, what the hell did this
Speaker 2: come from? You know? I mean, and but you know,
Speaker 2: my younger staff goes, oh yeah, man, he's amazing, you know.
Speaker 2: And my daughter, my fourteen year old song came on
Speaker 2: on her playlist. I go, who is this? She goes
Speaker 2: Zach Brian. I go, holy crap, this is really good.
Speaker 2: You know, this is like amazing. I mean, I haven't
Speaker 2: heard of the guy before. So business savvy, I don't know. Yeah,
Speaker 2: you've got to be in the business. You got to
Speaker 2: be in the business. But as far as me grinding
Speaker 2: out the way I used to, as far as listening
Speaker 2: to every new song, you know, every time a new
Speaker 2: album anybody would come out, I have to put it
Speaker 2: on or go to a club and watch him. I
Speaker 2: don't do that anymore. I go watch opening acts.
Speaker 1: Okay, in the old days, forget you know, Frank Barcelona
Speaker 1: and Loyalty. In any event, you worked your way up.
Speaker 1: No one started at the top. Seam Smith had a hit.
Speaker 1: First tour was Arenas. Okay, Zach Bryan's going to be
Speaker 1: playing stadium soon. Although we paid a few dues along
Speaker 1: the way. You're in control of one of these acts.
Speaker 1: What do you say, go for the money or is
Speaker 1: this going to hurt you in the long run.
Speaker 2: I always say do what you're supposed to do. The
Speaker 2: money will always be there, you know. We know. I
Speaker 2: try to convince everybody, never go for the money to
Speaker 2: do the right thing, you know, That's what you know.
Speaker 2: Sometimes I'm wrong, but I never chase the money, and
Speaker 2: I you know, because the money will be there.
Speaker 1: And if you're deciding where to play, do you say, well, listen,
Speaker 1: I want to play this building because I'll go clean
Speaker 1: and it's a good look as opposed to another building
Speaker 1: which may not sell out. How important are the optics
Speaker 1: to you, I.
Speaker 2: Think is you know you're going to play the right
Speaker 2: act in the right building for the right ticket price.
Speaker 2: A lot of times it's a jump ball where if
Speaker 2: I'm going to get a better deal for the act
Speaker 2: at somewhere else, then that's that's where I'm going to go,
Speaker 2: you know. And and you know, but I'm not going
Speaker 2: to put an act in a stadium unless I believe
Speaker 2: they could sell it. I'm not going to put an
Speaker 2: act in an arena unless they think I think they
Speaker 2: could sell it out, you know, or come close to it.
Speaker 2: So it's a matter of knowing who your artist is
Speaker 2: and and with the right steps to take. Sometimes I'm wrong,
Speaker 2: you know, But most of the times I'm right, and
Speaker 2: they're right.
Speaker 1: Tell me two mistakes you made in the last year.
Speaker 2: I don't know. Last year was it was almost like
Speaker 2: a perfect strong for me.
Speaker 1: Tell me two big mistakes you made in your career.
Speaker 2: Man, I made a lot of mistakes. You know. That's
Speaker 2: the time. I can't you put me on the spot.
Speaker 2: I don't know, you know, I really don't know. Don't
Speaker 2: know what mistakes? What big mistakes? I mean, I never
Speaker 2: made a mistake that was so that was so bad
Speaker 2: that what was I thinking? You know, I did some
Speaker 2: I don't know. I don't know. I can't answer the question. Sorry,
Speaker 2: I mean, I don't know. Drank too much.
Speaker 1: What's your philosophy on money? I'll give you an analogy.
Speaker 1: In the old days, everybody used to pay agents ten.
Speaker 1: Now that's negotiable, so you're making to deal with somebody
Speaker 1: in general. I know you have these acts you work
Speaker 1: with a long time. To what degree are you firm
Speaker 1: on the money. What's your negotiating style?
Speaker 2: Oh, believe in yourself and you'll make more money. And
Speaker 2: it's so funny because none of my acts that I
Speaker 2: work for are charging me guarantees, you know, but they're
Speaker 2: getting the line share of everything. Where they see every penny.
Speaker 2: It's not that I won't pay a guarantee. It's just
Speaker 2: that I will advance autist money, you know. But I'm
Speaker 2: you know, I'm not going to. I'm not going to.
Speaker 2: But everyone feels everyone, like I said, that's on themselves
Speaker 2: and they see every dollar that they see that piece
Speaker 2: of every dollar. And that's that's my philosophy, you know, transparency.
Speaker 1: Well, you've been doing this a long time and a
Speaker 1: lot of different capacities. There's an old line there are
Speaker 1: no no bad shows, only bad deals, right, So what's
Speaker 1: your philosophy on deals in general? In terms of your
Speaker 1: fifty year career.
Speaker 2: I'm not going to buy my way into a relationship.
Speaker 2: I think it's total bs. You know, when you know,
Speaker 2: when you the autists don't even know who they're working for.
Speaker 2: They're just taking the deal and then they regret it after,
Speaker 2: you know, And I'm not gonna I'm not going to
Speaker 2: chase an act with money that won't happen. So that's
Speaker 2: that's how I operate. I mean, I don't I'm in
Speaker 2: my own lane. I'm not in the ag lane. I'm
Speaker 2: not in a live nation in that lane, you know,
Speaker 2: I don't go after their acts, and most of the
Speaker 2: time they don't go after my acts. Every once in
Speaker 2: a while, you know, one of their promoters get greedy,
Speaker 2: and then I have to, you know, I have to.
Speaker 2: I have to, I have to get a little New
Speaker 2: Orleans on them.
Speaker 1: Okay, the landscape today is totally different. As I'm referenced earlier,
Speaker 1: the acts tend to be built by record companies. In radio,
Speaker 1: there's a lot of acts can tour that are not
Speaker 1: on the radio, don't even have record companies. By the
Speaker 1: same token record companies, the three majors have almost an
Speaker 1: impossible time breaking new acts. So where's it going?
Speaker 2: Well, this new acts breaking every day, you know, so
Speaker 2: maybe the record companies need to get in with the
Speaker 2: program instead of trying to control their acts, trying to
Speaker 2: figure out different ways how to promote their acts, instead
Speaker 2: of you know, the same thing, instead of a cooking
Speaker 2: cutter thing where they find an act, they find a
Speaker 2: hot act and then they go all in for it.
Speaker 2: And you know, but if you don't make the great
Speaker 2: eight out of the box, you're not going to get
Speaker 2: any interest. You know, my son's band was signed to
Speaker 2: a major record label, right and they did nothing. So
Speaker 2: I mean, you know, they did nothing. I you know,
Speaker 2: I was out there getting radio stations to come, shows
Speaker 2: to come, I was getting the taste makers to come
Speaker 2: to shows, but the band didn't go anywhere. You know,
Speaker 2: two albums on a major label. I don't think they
Speaker 2: pay enough attention to the artist and they're kind of
Speaker 2: like whatever sticks is who they're going after. So I
Speaker 2: think if they signed less bands, and if they sign
Speaker 2: a band, they need they have to believe they could
Speaker 2: take it all the way to the top, and they
Speaker 2: need to get involved and not just hiring somebody just
Speaker 2: and do generics posts. You know, Hi Denver, how are
Speaker 2: you you know from autist X where they they are
Speaker 2: engaging with the artist audience and not controlling what the
Speaker 2: audience is having, what the artist is having to say.
Speaker 2: I think they just need to be in tune to
Speaker 2: what's happening in the same way I need to be
Speaker 2: in tune to what's happening. That's why I have such
Speaker 2: a young staff and I grow my digital department every day.
Speaker 2: I think that's what record companies need to do, or
Speaker 2: any kind of companies. Yeah, you've got to get to
Speaker 2: the people you.
Speaker 1: Came up with what would be called a social media
Speaker 1: post showing a certain amount of savviness. But to what
Speaker 1: degree do you personally look at social media, whether it
Speaker 1: be Facebook, Instagram, TikTok? And to what degree are you
Speaker 1: personally computer savvy?
Speaker 2: On computers savvy to a certain degree. But I don't
Speaker 2: live on the computer, you know, I'm just doing emails.
Speaker 2: And so I'll just go to to my team and say, okay,
Speaker 2: tell me about the growth of this act, you know,
Speaker 2: tell me where they were five years ago. Tell me
Speaker 2: what their socials look like. Tell me what their audience
Speaker 2: looks like, you know, break down the demographics. And that's
Speaker 2: that's how I'm computerist. I always say I know where
Speaker 2: I want to go, but I don't know how to
Speaker 2: get there. And that's why I have the people that
Speaker 2: I have working with me, because I know what I
Speaker 2: want to do, but I just not savvy enough to
Speaker 2: do it. That's why I hire people that is much
Speaker 2: smarter than me to get it done instead of me
Speaker 2: doing a half assed job of it. You know, I
Speaker 2: rely upon them to feed me with knowledge. I ask
Speaker 2: good questions, though.
Speaker 1: What's more important? Data or gut instinct?
Speaker 2: Combination of both? I mean data. Sometimes you know, you
Speaker 2: got you have people that have you know, ten minutes
Speaker 2: followers but can't sell out you know, my car and
Speaker 2: you know you you know, sometimes you just have to
Speaker 2: feel it, you know, you just have to feel it
Speaker 2: like this is going to happen. And I think you
Speaker 2: need a combination of both. The you need to know,
Speaker 2: you have to have a feel for the audience. You
Speaker 2: have to have a feel for the music. You have
Speaker 2: to have a feel for the connection. But you also
Speaker 2: have to have the savvy to knowing how to get
Speaker 2: to the audience and knowing how to send the right
Speaker 2: message to the audience and and to connect the artists
Speaker 2: and the audience. And and sometimes the artists don't even themselves,
Speaker 2: don't have enough belief in themselves, where you have to
Speaker 2: kind of give you know, you have to you have
Speaker 2: to give them your enthusiasm. And that's kind of what
Speaker 2: I do, you know, like I'm a tap dancer, you know,
Speaker 2: like I put I'm mister bo Jangles, you know, And
Speaker 2: just you got to have both. You've got to have
Speaker 2: a great team around you that is savvy and every
Speaker 2: which way, but you've got to have a gut feeling.
Speaker 2: And I think that's what has been the key to
Speaker 2: my success is that I have a great feeling I
Speaker 2: could see town, you know, I feel I could see
Speaker 2: where there's that connection between the artis and audience that
Speaker 2: I think that's my biggest gift.
Speaker 1: And what would you say to young people wanted to
Speaker 1: get into this business?
Speaker 2: Uh, dive in man, you know, follow your dreams. You know.
Speaker 2: I do a class every semester at ut and and
Speaker 2: you know it's always like forty to fifty students in
Speaker 2: my class. And uh, it's just just called the you know,
Speaker 2: the making of a concert where I kind of go
Speaker 2: through the whole steps from signing the and all the
Speaker 2: way through load out. And I always encourage people to
Speaker 2: follow their dreams. And I'm not going to say, oh,
Speaker 2: you know, it's such a shitty business. It's not a
Speaker 2: shitty business, you know, if you have the drive. I mean, yeah,
Speaker 2: it was a shitty business when I started because I
Speaker 2: didn't know what the hell I was doing. But I
Speaker 2: kept on asking why why, why? Why? Why do you
Speaker 2: do this? Why do you do that? And I always say,
Speaker 2: don't have a tate no for an answer. On the
Speaker 2: third note, it's a maybe, you know, just keep on
Speaker 2: moving forward, keep on moving forward. So yeah, I would
Speaker 2: encourage people. I encourage my kids, you know, to go
Speaker 2: for it. You know, my daughter wants to go into film,
Speaker 2: I go for it. You know my other my fourteen
Speaker 2: year old daughter, want to You know, she's got an
Speaker 2: incredible voice, she's got such charisma, but I don't think
Speaker 2: she has the drive. But I encourage you every day.
Speaker 2: And last night eleven o'clock I heard her playing piano
Speaker 2: and and so that was pretty cool because that day
Speaker 2: I go, why'd you stop playing piano? And because I
Speaker 2: don't know? And then last night I was in bed
Speaker 2: I could hear her play, and then it was pretty cool.
Speaker 2: So I'm always encouraging people to follow their dreams.
Speaker 1: So how much longer are you going to do this?
Speaker 1: You're going to do this till you drop, or you're
Speaker 1: going to retire at some point.
Speaker 2: Probably do it till I drop. Uh Uh. I love
Speaker 2: what I do. I still love what I do. You know,
Speaker 2: why would I do? I can only pull up so
Speaker 2: many cedar trees, you know, And and I really love
Speaker 2: what I do, And I don't know, I wouldn't know
Speaker 2: what else to do. I mean, he has to sit
Speaker 2: at home, and you know, I'm not going to write
Speaker 2: a book. I'm not gonna you know, I've traveled. I've
Speaker 2: traveled my whole life, and so it's not like I
Speaker 2: want to try, you know, And I don't know. I guess.
Speaker 2: I used to say, when George retires, Our retired, when
Speaker 2: Kenny retires, Our retire, when Taylor retires, I'll be dead.
Speaker 2: And that's basically it, you know me. But when I
Speaker 2: signed a new van and see them go to the top,
Speaker 2: I just love it. When I have George Strait thirty
Speaker 2: years is still at the top of it. When we
Speaker 2: set a tent, we set gross records everywhere we played.
Speaker 2: I mean somebody sent me somewhere all highest gross. Number
Speaker 2: one was George Straight, Number two was George Straight, number
Speaker 2: three and four would Beyonce. I don't know what publication
Speaker 2: that was, but somebody sent it to me and went,
Speaker 2: holy shit, and that's pretty cool. And every night, you know,
Speaker 2: where single night attendance record ed was breaking every night,
Speaker 2: And what Taylor has done, it's like mind blow. I mean,
Speaker 2: I'm part of history. I'm living in history with Taylor,
Speaker 2: you know. And shit, after fifty one years of the
Speaker 2: business and still having a hand as hot as I
Speaker 2: have and still have artists and still have you know,
Speaker 2: a brain, and I'm pretty lucky, and why would I
Speaker 2: want to give it up? I don't.
Speaker 1: Okay. You say you're in the business and making dreams
Speaker 1: come true. You say to the artist, what is your dream? So, Louis,
Speaker 1: what is your dream beyond what you've already accomplished.
Speaker 2: I don't know, Find the next artists, bring them to
Speaker 2: the stadiums, you know, and just see my team grow,
Speaker 2: my kids grow up, but seeing the younger people of
Speaker 2: superstars on my team grow, you know, my son Lewis
Speaker 2: and Haley McCollister and you know, Sarah Winter, and just
Speaker 2: see them becoming stars. That's that's my dream, you know.
Speaker 2: That's what I want to do. As far as watching
Speaker 2: the growth of my family and watching the growth of
Speaker 2: the individuals here, that's what I like to do. That's
Speaker 2: what I want to do. You know, I don't want
Speaker 2: to you know, people say, oh, Louis, if you drop dead,
Speaker 2: you have no company. That's bs you know, I mean
Speaker 2: Taylor because of Mike Dugan, because of Sarah, because of Haley,
Speaker 2: you know, Illumineers because of Haley and my niece Margo,
Speaker 2: you know, and Kenny Chesney is because of Rome and
Speaker 2: Kate McMahon. You know it's not yeah me, I am,
Speaker 2: you know the song and dance man, but you know
Speaker 2: they're the people. They're the mechanics that just get the
Speaker 2: job done. But I'm making them song and dance I'm
Speaker 2: making a lot of them song and dance men too.
Speaker 1: Okay, Louis, I want to thank you so much for
Speaker 1: taking this time to talk and educate my Owdens. Really
Speaker 1: been great, always hilarious talking to you so insightful. Thanks
Speaker 1: so much.
Speaker 2: All right, thank you, my man, Bye bye.
Speaker 1: Until next time. This is Bob Left sets