1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:03,360 Speaker 1: I'm Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the Thing, 2 00:00:03,680 --> 00:00:12,800 Speaker 1: O Lot, Travel so hard, Oh love so hid, don't 3 00:00:12,840 --> 00:00:21,120 Speaker 1: know that God in You're Cool. Friends put on Mobi's 4 00:00:21,320 --> 00:00:25,040 Speaker 1: play at parties in two thousands, it was on the radio. 5 00:00:25,520 --> 00:00:30,960 Speaker 1: Popularity snowballed into ubiquity. In two thousand one, Play was 6 00:00:31,000 --> 00:00:35,560 Speaker 1: in malls and Volkswagen ads. It became the biggest selling 7 00:00:35,560 --> 00:00:48,440 Speaker 1: electronica album of all time. Two fans. Outside the electronic 8 00:00:48,520 --> 00:00:52,640 Speaker 1: music world, Moby seemed like an overnight success, but he 9 00:00:52,680 --> 00:00:56,680 Speaker 1: was thirty three in and had been recording since the eighties. 10 00:00:57,280 --> 00:01:01,800 Speaker 1: Play was actually his fifth studio album. It never occurred 11 00:01:01,840 --> 00:01:04,800 Speaker 1: to him it would break even, let alone break records. 12 00:01:05,760 --> 00:01:09,959 Speaker 1: The self described loner and nerd succumbed to the worst 13 00:01:10,040 --> 00:01:14,679 Speaker 1: sort of rock star excess. As his fans filled stadiums 14 00:01:14,720 --> 00:01:17,440 Speaker 1: and models showed up in his dressing room. Moby was 15 00:01:17,480 --> 00:01:22,240 Speaker 1: euphoric but spinning out of control. It's a story he 16 00:01:22,319 --> 00:01:26,120 Speaker 1: shares in his new book, Then It Fell Apart. I 17 00:01:26,200 --> 00:01:29,640 Speaker 1: spoke to Moby last month. In the early chapters of 18 00:01:29,720 --> 00:01:33,160 Speaker 1: his book. Moby is coming to terms with the album 19 00:01:33,360 --> 00:01:37,120 Speaker 1: going platinum. What do you think happened inside the music? 20 00:01:37,200 --> 00:01:40,000 Speaker 1: In that album that was different. Did something click? Did 21 00:01:40,080 --> 00:01:43,120 Speaker 1: something changed all of a sudden, You're a monolith in 22 00:01:43,120 --> 00:01:46,360 Speaker 1: the music business. Yeah, And to contextualize it, before that 23 00:01:46,440 --> 00:01:49,920 Speaker 1: album Play came out, my career had essentially ended. I'd 24 00:01:49,920 --> 00:01:52,360 Speaker 1: lost my record deal. It's very dark time. My mom 25 00:01:52,400 --> 00:01:57,840 Speaker 1: had died, I was I was living on Mott Street, um, 26 00:01:57,880 --> 00:02:03,840 Speaker 1: and I recorded Play where in my drum on Mott Street, 27 00:02:03,920 --> 00:02:06,840 Speaker 1: And well, actually I slept in the closet, and I 28 00:02:06,880 --> 00:02:08,799 Speaker 1: had my my bedroom had been turned into an ad 29 00:02:08,800 --> 00:02:11,560 Speaker 1: hoc recording studio, and and I thought, so I had 30 00:02:11,600 --> 00:02:15,760 Speaker 1: made Play, my last album had failed completely, and I'd 31 00:02:15,800 --> 00:02:19,600 Speaker 1: lost my record deal. I was signed to Elektra, and 32 00:02:19,639 --> 00:02:21,360 Speaker 1: then I was signed in the UK to a label 33 00:02:21,360 --> 00:02:24,760 Speaker 1: called Mute, and they hadn't dropped me. But to put 34 00:02:24,840 --> 00:02:27,520 Speaker 1: it in perspective, they'd never dropped anyone. That was their 35 00:02:27,520 --> 00:02:30,640 Speaker 1: claim to fame is they'd never dropped an artist like Yeah, 36 00:02:30,639 --> 00:02:32,560 Speaker 1: So I was like, I couldn't really take too much 37 00:02:32,560 --> 00:02:34,519 Speaker 1: comfort in the fact that I hadn't lost my deal 38 00:02:34,560 --> 00:02:38,680 Speaker 1: with Mute when they had never ever dropped an artists. Well, 39 00:02:38,800 --> 00:02:42,280 Speaker 1: Richard Branson started a label called V two, and someone 40 00:02:42,400 --> 00:02:45,840 Speaker 1: working at V two somehow heard one of the songs 41 00:02:45,880 --> 00:02:49,919 Speaker 1: on Play. I still don't know how, and he offered 42 00:02:49,960 --> 00:02:53,560 Speaker 1: me a deal. But yeah, I mean before it was released, 43 00:02:53,560 --> 00:02:57,960 Speaker 1: I thought, Okay, I'm an alcoholic bald has been I'm 44 00:02:58,000 --> 00:03:04,560 Speaker 1: going to release this one last closet. Living in my closet. Well, 45 00:03:04,760 --> 00:03:08,919 Speaker 1: the building was from the mid nineteenth century on Mont Street, 46 00:03:08,960 --> 00:03:11,760 Speaker 1: and it had been a slaughter house, so the space 47 00:03:11,800 --> 00:03:13,440 Speaker 1: I was living in this is weird as an animal 48 00:03:13,480 --> 00:03:17,560 Speaker 1: rights vegan. The floor is all sloped to central drains 49 00:03:18,000 --> 00:03:19,519 Speaker 1: because when it had been a slaughter house they would 50 00:03:19,520 --> 00:03:21,360 Speaker 1: just hose the floors out and all the awful would 51 00:03:21,360 --> 00:03:23,560 Speaker 1: just get washed out in the drains. So I'm in 52 00:03:23,600 --> 00:03:26,959 Speaker 1: that environment thinking I'm going to move back to Connecticut. 53 00:03:26,960 --> 00:03:29,440 Speaker 1: I'm gonna get a job teaching community college, like probably 54 00:03:29,480 --> 00:03:32,160 Speaker 1: be a philosophy professor to students who just had no 55 00:03:32,240 --> 00:03:35,400 Speaker 1: interest in paying attention to philosophy. And then this album 56 00:03:35,440 --> 00:03:40,000 Speaker 1: comes out and rather than failing, it kept doing better 57 00:03:40,040 --> 00:03:42,680 Speaker 1: and better. So do your question of, like, musically, why 58 00:03:42,720 --> 00:03:45,480 Speaker 1: that happened? I still to this day because a lot 59 00:03:45,480 --> 00:03:47,920 Speaker 1: of the vocals on play were like old African American 60 00:03:47,960 --> 00:03:51,160 Speaker 1: vocals from the mid twentieth century, And if I look at. 61 00:03:51,600 --> 00:03:55,960 Speaker 1: There's just no precedent for a middle aged musician making 62 00:03:55,960 --> 00:03:59,560 Speaker 1: a record in his bedroom at the end of his career, 63 00:04:00,240 --> 00:04:02,800 Speaker 1: involving vocals from people who have been dead for a 64 00:04:02,800 --> 00:04:06,640 Speaker 1: few decades. Like, that's not a recipe for a hit record. 65 00:04:07,080 --> 00:04:09,680 Speaker 1: I remember at some point it's sold fifty thousand records 66 00:04:09,920 --> 00:04:11,440 Speaker 1: because I thought it was gonna sell nothing, and I 67 00:04:11,480 --> 00:04:15,600 Speaker 1: was amazed that my album has told fifty thou records 68 00:04:15,680 --> 00:04:17,880 Speaker 1: and then six months later it was selling a hundred 69 00:04:17,920 --> 00:04:24,080 Speaker 1: thousand copies a week. What did people respond to the 70 00:04:24,160 --> 00:04:27,080 Speaker 1: only people are listening to your music and buying your 71 00:04:27,160 --> 00:04:29,680 Speaker 1: music in a world that has choked with music. It 72 00:04:29,839 --> 00:04:31,880 Speaker 1: was there was so much stuff out there they can 73 00:04:31,920 --> 00:04:34,800 Speaker 1: listen to, and they buy ten million copies of your album? 74 00:04:34,839 --> 00:04:38,960 Speaker 1: Why do you think you know? I was recently doing 75 00:04:39,000 --> 00:04:41,400 Speaker 1: an interview with Larry King and he asked me that question, 76 00:04:41,480 --> 00:04:43,760 Speaker 1: and he sort of asked me, like, if you could 77 00:04:43,760 --> 00:04:45,760 Speaker 1: replicate it, would you? And I was like, oh, I tried, 78 00:04:46,360 --> 00:04:49,640 Speaker 1: like the following, like the next two I kept. I 79 00:04:49,680 --> 00:04:51,960 Speaker 1: was like, how do I recreate that? And I never 80 00:04:52,040 --> 00:04:55,320 Speaker 1: really could Like that one sort of weird lightning in 81 00:04:55,360 --> 00:04:58,520 Speaker 1: a bottle moment. I don't I mean, I don't want 82 00:04:58,560 --> 00:05:02,239 Speaker 1: to anthropomorphize a universe too much, but I almost feel 83 00:05:02,279 --> 00:05:07,360 Speaker 1: like the universe was in a sort of lighthearted, educational 84 00:05:07,440 --> 00:05:10,400 Speaker 1: way saying like, Okay, we're going to give you everything 85 00:05:10,400 --> 00:05:13,120 Speaker 1: you ever wanted times a million, and it's going to 86 00:05:13,240 --> 00:05:16,520 Speaker 1: come close to killing you and you're gonna hopefully learn 87 00:05:16,600 --> 00:05:20,320 Speaker 1: something from it. So there was like and again that 88 00:05:20,400 --> 00:05:23,720 Speaker 1: that might sound very narcissistic, like I've just anthropomorphized a 89 00:05:23,800 --> 00:05:27,600 Speaker 1: thirteen point eight billion year old universe, but it felt like, 90 00:05:28,040 --> 00:05:30,600 Speaker 1: at the end of the day, more than anything else, educational, 91 00:05:30,640 --> 00:05:32,360 Speaker 1: like the universe is gonna say like, okay, you live 92 00:05:32,400 --> 00:05:35,120 Speaker 1: in a time to ANTHROPOMORPHI the universe part of the 93 00:05:35,200 --> 00:05:37,119 Speaker 1: human condition. Let's go from there. Then, so the album 94 00:05:37,160 --> 00:05:40,160 Speaker 1: comes out, it's difficult for some people to say this 95 00:05:40,200 --> 00:05:42,920 Speaker 1: is his style. You've had a lot of different, you know, 96 00:05:43,000 --> 00:05:45,039 Speaker 1: kind of tones and a lot of different variety to 97 00:05:45,120 --> 00:05:48,839 Speaker 1: the sound of your music. And what was music in 98 00:05:48,839 --> 00:05:51,839 Speaker 1: your childhood. We went a chorus with a church with 99 00:05:51,920 --> 00:05:56,760 Speaker 1: a music school. It was weird. I started playing guitar. 100 00:05:56,920 --> 00:05:58,919 Speaker 1: I guess when those are a nine or ten because 101 00:05:58,960 --> 00:06:01,880 Speaker 1: one of my mom's boyfriend friends had gone to jail 102 00:06:02,640 --> 00:06:05,040 Speaker 1: and left a guitar behind. But your mother is kind 103 00:06:05,080 --> 00:06:08,400 Speaker 1: of from a privileged background Connecticut quasi, I mean, like 104 00:06:08,440 --> 00:06:12,560 Speaker 1: my grandfather worked on Wall Street. But then my mom 105 00:06:12,680 --> 00:06:17,479 Speaker 1: sort of rejected that the sixties progressed and she fully 106 00:06:17,600 --> 00:06:21,000 Speaker 1: embraced the hippie lifestyle. But your dad, your dad passed 107 00:06:21,040 --> 00:06:23,200 Speaker 1: away when I was too, so when you were too 108 00:06:23,279 --> 00:06:25,120 Speaker 1: And how long did you stay in New York? After 109 00:06:25,200 --> 00:06:27,800 Speaker 1: he passed away? My mom moved back to Connecticut to 110 00:06:27,800 --> 00:06:31,360 Speaker 1: get her undergraduate at East Khan if that is even 111 00:06:31,400 --> 00:06:33,839 Speaker 1: still a school, and then we went to San Francisco 112 00:06:33,880 --> 00:06:38,000 Speaker 1: in nine where everything sort of fell apart. And that 113 00:06:38,480 --> 00:06:41,360 Speaker 1: three so right after your dad passed away, she finished school, 114 00:06:41,440 --> 00:06:46,120 Speaker 1: say school, we went to San Francisco, and she sort of, 115 00:06:46,520 --> 00:06:49,159 Speaker 1: I guess, was very torn, like the counterculture was happening, 116 00:06:49,160 --> 00:06:52,520 Speaker 1: and she really desperately wanted to be a part of it, 117 00:06:53,080 --> 00:06:55,240 Speaker 1: you know, And so did you have any ideas why? 118 00:06:55,600 --> 00:06:58,200 Speaker 1: I have a feeling half of it was rejecting, like 119 00:06:58,240 --> 00:07:01,440 Speaker 1: growing up in Dary in Connecticut, being encouraged by her 120 00:07:01,560 --> 00:07:06,200 Speaker 1: parents to sort of be very conservative and very traditional. Um, 121 00:07:06,320 --> 00:07:09,440 Speaker 1: so it was a rejection of to an extent her family, 122 00:07:09,520 --> 00:07:12,360 Speaker 1: but also just wanting to be a part of this 123 00:07:12,440 --> 00:07:17,960 Speaker 1: new exciting paradigm, you know, I mean original paradigm. That's 124 00:07:17,960 --> 00:07:20,880 Speaker 1: when it's been copied since. Yeah, that was it. And 125 00:07:20,960 --> 00:07:24,560 Speaker 1: she's twenty three years old and she wanted to be 126 00:07:24,640 --> 00:07:26,720 Speaker 1: this free spirit artist, but she also had a three 127 00:07:26,800 --> 00:07:30,280 Speaker 1: year old child, and that's where things, a lot of 128 00:07:30,600 --> 00:07:33,720 Speaker 1: tension and trauma really came from. What did your dad 129 00:07:33,760 --> 00:07:37,600 Speaker 1: do for a living? He was a chemistry professor at Columbia, 130 00:07:37,800 --> 00:07:40,000 Speaker 1: but he had been in the military and he was 131 00:07:40,360 --> 00:07:42,400 Speaker 1: It's funny people don't really talk about it that much, 132 00:07:42,440 --> 00:07:44,960 Speaker 1: but I think he was either an assassin or a sniper. 133 00:07:45,960 --> 00:07:48,080 Speaker 1: Um because I've asked me people in my family and like, oh, 134 00:07:48,080 --> 00:07:50,160 Speaker 1: what did my dad do in the military, and they're like, well, 135 00:07:50,200 --> 00:07:53,000 Speaker 1: he did a lot of things. It's never so I 136 00:07:53,000 --> 00:07:57,880 Speaker 1: think because he killed himself and he was he drove 137 00:07:58,080 --> 00:08:00,880 Speaker 1: I don't know where exactly, but he got very drunk. 138 00:08:00,960 --> 00:08:03,440 Speaker 1: My mom had threatened to take me away from him, 139 00:08:03,560 --> 00:08:05,520 Speaker 1: and so he got drunk and got in his car 140 00:08:05,600 --> 00:08:11,160 Speaker 1: and drove a hundred miles an hour into a bridge somewhere. Now, 141 00:08:11,440 --> 00:08:13,160 Speaker 1: what would people tell you if it all to do 142 00:08:13,200 --> 00:08:15,640 Speaker 1: to do do any investigation or did you have some 143 00:08:15,720 --> 00:08:18,160 Speaker 1: curiosity as to what your dad was like. Did you 144 00:08:18,240 --> 00:08:20,280 Speaker 1: learn a little bit about him later on in life? Well, 145 00:08:21,440 --> 00:08:26,640 Speaker 1: it's only beyond the CIA credit. Only in adulthood did 146 00:08:26,680 --> 00:08:30,040 Speaker 1: I realize how little I knew about my father. Like, 147 00:08:30,120 --> 00:08:33,400 Speaker 1: for example, if I had a child with a woman 148 00:08:33,520 --> 00:08:35,840 Speaker 1: and she died, as the child grew up, I would 149 00:08:35,880 --> 00:08:38,160 Speaker 1: do everything in my power to make sure the child 150 00:08:38,280 --> 00:08:40,960 Speaker 1: knew who his mom had been. You know, we would 151 00:08:40,960 --> 00:08:44,360 Speaker 1: talk about it. And after my dad dies, he was 152 00:08:44,400 --> 00:08:48,520 Speaker 1: never mentioned. His mother never mentioned it to me, and 153 00:08:48,559 --> 00:08:51,360 Speaker 1: all I knew was that he had been in the 154 00:08:51,360 --> 00:08:55,520 Speaker 1: military and I had photos. And but again it was 155 00:08:55,520 --> 00:08:58,240 Speaker 1: only after my mother died that the rest of the 156 00:08:58,240 --> 00:08:59,920 Speaker 1: people in my family sort of let me know that 157 00:09:00,120 --> 00:09:03,800 Speaker 1: father had been a professor and he had a good 158 00:09:03,800 --> 00:09:06,120 Speaker 1: sense of humor. And your mother had to die before 159 00:09:06,120 --> 00:09:08,400 Speaker 1: people were allowed to introduce you to your dad. Kind 160 00:09:08,440 --> 00:09:11,000 Speaker 1: of yeah, I found And it's sort of had this 161 00:09:11,920 --> 00:09:15,000 Speaker 1: quasi like almost like a check off play quality, Like 162 00:09:15,040 --> 00:09:17,840 Speaker 1: I found out after my mother had died. I found 163 00:09:17,880 --> 00:09:19,920 Speaker 1: out that my father had killed himself, because my whole life, 164 00:09:19,960 --> 00:09:22,079 Speaker 1: up until that point, I thought he had just died 165 00:09:22,360 --> 00:09:24,800 Speaker 1: and no one ever explained how or why. And I 166 00:09:24,840 --> 00:09:29,520 Speaker 1: also found out I have a half brother somewhere, which, um, 167 00:09:29,640 --> 00:09:31,280 Speaker 1: can I tell you a story about who my half 168 00:09:31,280 --> 00:09:35,320 Speaker 1: brother is not? I think he'll appreciate. I was in 169 00:09:35,520 --> 00:09:38,640 Speaker 1: d C in two thousand and seven with Alexandra Pelosi, 170 00:09:38,760 --> 00:09:42,480 Speaker 1: Nancy's daughter, and we were with Nancy. Nancy was the 171 00:09:42,520 --> 00:09:45,480 Speaker 1: Speaker of the House. And this is pret sobriety. So 172 00:09:45,520 --> 00:09:47,679 Speaker 1: I got very drunk and ended up talking to a 173 00:09:47,760 --> 00:09:51,319 Speaker 1: journalist from Politico and telling this journalist that I have 174 00:09:51,360 --> 00:09:54,920 Speaker 1: a half brother, and I jokingly said, maybe it's Carl Rove. 175 00:09:56,120 --> 00:09:59,120 Speaker 1: The journalist wrote a little political piece saying our Mobi 176 00:09:59,200 --> 00:10:02,080 Speaker 1: and Karl Rove brothers. Two weeks later, I get a 177 00:10:02,160 --> 00:10:04,760 Speaker 1: letter on White House stationary and says, dear Moby, it's 178 00:10:04,800 --> 00:10:07,640 Speaker 1: not me. For one thing, I'm seventeen years older than you, 179 00:10:07,679 --> 00:10:10,199 Speaker 1: and I have no musical ability. Have you considered James 180 00:10:10,200 --> 00:10:12,600 Speaker 1: Carville as your long lost brother because he's bald and 181 00:10:12,600 --> 00:10:15,839 Speaker 1: plays the guitar too, your pal Karl Rove? And I 182 00:10:15,920 --> 00:10:18,040 Speaker 1: was like, so, I know, as far as I know, 183 00:10:18,120 --> 00:10:20,000 Speaker 1: Karl Rove is not my half brother. You have one? 184 00:10:20,120 --> 00:10:22,360 Speaker 1: Did you ever meet? I don't have no idea who 185 00:10:22,440 --> 00:10:25,920 Speaker 1: or where he might be. You know your story, and 186 00:10:25,960 --> 00:10:27,760 Speaker 1: we'll get to some of the details of this in 187 00:10:27,760 --> 00:10:30,480 Speaker 1: the book. That the self destructiveness, but an impression I 188 00:10:30,520 --> 00:10:32,360 Speaker 1: get of you the way you live as you you 189 00:10:32,440 --> 00:10:37,040 Speaker 1: like to isolate, and you talk about this panic plateau 190 00:10:37,080 --> 00:10:39,480 Speaker 1: thing or whatever the terminology is, which which which kind 191 00:10:39,480 --> 00:10:42,680 Speaker 1: of hampered or impacted relationships you would have with people 192 00:10:42,679 --> 00:10:45,440 Speaker 1: as Oh, yeah, I mean I'm fifty three and I've 193 00:10:45,520 --> 00:10:49,560 Speaker 1: never had a serious relationship. Um and over time trouble 194 00:10:49,640 --> 00:10:53,640 Speaker 1: you it used to, but then over time I've sort 195 00:10:53,679 --> 00:10:58,800 Speaker 1: of made peace with it. I mean, I guess there's 196 00:10:58,840 --> 00:11:02,079 Speaker 1: almost in a way not to overstate it, but like 197 00:11:02,320 --> 00:11:06,920 Speaker 1: there's a there's a sort of utility to being incapable 198 00:11:06,960 --> 00:11:09,960 Speaker 1: of having real relationships, which is I get to work 199 00:11:09,960 --> 00:11:12,040 Speaker 1: on other things, you know, like I get to be 200 00:11:12,320 --> 00:11:14,439 Speaker 1: to spend more use of the time. Yes, I get 201 00:11:14,480 --> 00:11:16,959 Speaker 1: to spend more time doing activism. I get to spend 202 00:11:16,960 --> 00:11:22,240 Speaker 1: more time I don't know, reading, working on music, working 203 00:11:22,240 --> 00:11:24,280 Speaker 1: on art. I have a weird little production company in 204 00:11:24,400 --> 00:11:26,320 Speaker 1: l A. So I can work more on that. So 205 00:11:27,480 --> 00:11:29,160 Speaker 1: I had always thought that the key to happiness, at 206 00:11:29,240 --> 00:11:31,520 Speaker 1: least growing up, was like you find your perfect person, 207 00:11:32,080 --> 00:11:34,559 Speaker 1: you build a life with them, and at some point 208 00:11:34,600 --> 00:11:37,480 Speaker 1: I realize, oh, that's just not in the cards for me. 209 00:11:37,960 --> 00:11:40,680 Speaker 1: And so there's so far, so far. But at the 210 00:11:40,679 --> 00:11:45,040 Speaker 1: same time, I don't I don't have any longing for it, 211 00:11:45,040 --> 00:11:47,800 Speaker 1: which not that you know of not that I mean, 212 00:11:47,800 --> 00:11:50,600 Speaker 1: maybe I'll meet the you know, maybe you just it's 213 00:11:50,640 --> 00:11:52,760 Speaker 1: it's you don't know. Do you want to vent? Your 214 00:11:52,800 --> 00:11:59,559 Speaker 1: word comes from? Does it come from certain obvious childhood signals? 215 00:11:59,600 --> 00:12:03,560 Speaker 1: I think I assume so that because you were left 216 00:12:03,600 --> 00:12:05,600 Speaker 1: alone a lot as a child, was left alone, and 217 00:12:05,640 --> 00:12:07,559 Speaker 1: I was also raised you know, I grew up very 218 00:12:07,640 --> 00:12:10,679 Speaker 1: very poor in a very wealthy town in Daryan, Connecticut, 219 00:12:10,760 --> 00:12:12,920 Speaker 1: and my mom dated Hell's Angels. There was a lot 220 00:12:12,960 --> 00:12:14,320 Speaker 1: of when you went back to Darien and you were 221 00:12:14,320 --> 00:12:17,559 Speaker 1: how old when I was five? So were you in 222 00:12:17,720 --> 00:12:19,880 Speaker 1: San Francisco just a couple of years? Yeah, so your 223 00:12:19,880 --> 00:12:23,160 Speaker 1: mom smoking pot and the taking actresses and taking acid 224 00:12:23,679 --> 00:12:26,360 Speaker 1: and and and everybody like, you know, kind of cavorting 225 00:12:26,440 --> 00:12:28,440 Speaker 1: around the hate or whatever they were doing. You were 226 00:12:28,440 --> 00:12:29,960 Speaker 1: only there for a couple of years and then we 227 00:12:29,960 --> 00:12:34,359 Speaker 1: moved back to Connecticut. Long well, I lived in Connecticut 228 00:12:34,440 --> 00:12:36,640 Speaker 1: from the time I was five until the time I 229 00:12:36,679 --> 00:12:40,280 Speaker 1: was twenty one. You basically grew up there. Yeah, I'm 230 00:12:40,280 --> 00:12:42,959 Speaker 1: just an inbred, white trash kid from Connecticut. The San 231 00:12:42,960 --> 00:12:45,000 Speaker 1: Francisco thing was a brief period of that was just 232 00:12:45,080 --> 00:12:49,000 Speaker 1: brief and traumatic and traumatical. Well traumatic. There was sexual 233 00:12:49,000 --> 00:12:52,240 Speaker 1: abuse my mom, and I don't want to throw her 234 00:12:52,320 --> 00:12:55,839 Speaker 1: under the bus posthumously, but she wanted to hang out 235 00:12:55,880 --> 00:12:57,520 Speaker 1: with her friends. She was twenty three years old, so 236 00:12:57,520 --> 00:13:00,320 Speaker 1: they put me in this very low rent daycare enter 237 00:13:00,840 --> 00:13:02,960 Speaker 1: and I was sexually abused there. What did she do 238 00:13:03,040 --> 00:13:05,560 Speaker 1: during the day? Did she work? Not? In San Francisco, 239 00:13:05,720 --> 00:13:07,920 Speaker 1: she was supported by her family. They were all dependent 240 00:13:08,000 --> 00:13:10,840 Speaker 1: on somebody. A lot of kids from Connecticut who in 241 00:13:11,000 --> 00:13:15,720 Speaker 1: nineteen sixty four had been playing lacrosse. Nothing wrong with lacrosse. 242 00:13:15,800 --> 00:13:18,440 Speaker 1: I just was never very good at it. And uh 243 00:13:18,840 --> 00:13:21,880 Speaker 1: that short hair wearing I od's, you know, going to 244 00:13:21,920 --> 00:13:24,280 Speaker 1: Weburn Country Club, drinking Gin and Tonics, and all of 245 00:13:24,320 --> 00:13:27,360 Speaker 1: a sudden they're living on hate Ashbury with fringe jackets 246 00:13:27,360 --> 00:13:30,280 Speaker 1: and hair down to the middle of their back, taking acid. 247 00:13:30,480 --> 00:13:32,400 Speaker 1: And I sort of got caught up in the middle 248 00:13:32,400 --> 00:13:36,079 Speaker 1: of that as a as a three year old. When 249 00:13:36,120 --> 00:13:38,160 Speaker 1: you got back to Connecticut and you grew up there, 250 00:13:38,920 --> 00:13:42,720 Speaker 1: did your mother, Uh, developed as a parent and she 251 00:13:42,800 --> 00:13:44,720 Speaker 1: was getting older, which did she become a better parent? 252 00:13:45,080 --> 00:13:47,600 Speaker 1: Was there a continued period of isolation and kind of 253 00:13:47,720 --> 00:13:52,160 Speaker 1: uh uh not not good child care for you both 254 00:13:52,240 --> 00:13:55,160 Speaker 1: an equal measure, like with a good support system of 255 00:13:55,200 --> 00:13:58,880 Speaker 1: my grandmother, aunts and uncles. So there was a lot 256 00:13:58,920 --> 00:14:01,760 Speaker 1: of support. But did you spend a lot of time 257 00:14:01,800 --> 00:14:05,959 Speaker 1: with your mother's parents. Yeah, um, but also a lot 258 00:14:06,040 --> 00:14:09,600 Speaker 1: of time alone because also we were very poor. We 259 00:14:09,640 --> 00:14:11,520 Speaker 1: were on food stamps and welfare and we're in dairy 260 00:14:11,520 --> 00:14:13,480 Speaker 1: in Connecticut, which is per capital, one of the wealthiest 261 00:14:13,480 --> 00:14:17,679 Speaker 1: places in the world, and so I had this constant 262 00:14:17,800 --> 00:14:20,720 Speaker 1: sense of shame. You know, So when I went to school, 263 00:14:21,320 --> 00:14:24,960 Speaker 1: it was pretending that I didn't live in the garage 264 00:14:25,000 --> 00:14:27,200 Speaker 1: apartment and that we weren't on food stamps and welfare. 265 00:14:27,240 --> 00:14:29,000 Speaker 1: You know, if I had the flu, I would come 266 00:14:29,040 --> 00:14:32,080 Speaker 1: back and say, oh, we went to Switzerland, because that 267 00:14:32,120 --> 00:14:35,720 Speaker 1: sounded like something that wealthy people would say. So just 268 00:14:35,760 --> 00:14:40,600 Speaker 1: this the sense of shame and the sense of inadequacy, 269 00:14:40,680 --> 00:14:42,560 Speaker 1: and not to again not to overstate it, but like 270 00:14:43,520 --> 00:14:45,920 Speaker 1: when you grow up with that, it's hard, even in adulthood, 271 00:14:45,920 --> 00:14:51,400 Speaker 1: when your circumstances change, it's hard to move past how 272 00:14:51,440 --> 00:14:54,440 Speaker 1: you were formed. When did you start to get this 273 00:14:54,520 --> 00:15:01,200 Speaker 1: idea that you were right music? I think, well, my mom, 274 00:15:01,240 --> 00:15:06,200 Speaker 1: who was an aspiring musician pianist. I mean, I remember 275 00:15:06,320 --> 00:15:11,320 Speaker 1: my mom had the most odd, eclectic record collection, you know. 276 00:15:11,400 --> 00:15:13,720 Speaker 1: So she had Crosby Stills, Nash and Young and divor 277 00:15:13,840 --> 00:15:18,080 Speaker 1: Jack and Lightning Hopkins and Bob Ala Tunji and so 278 00:15:18,120 --> 00:15:21,840 Speaker 1: I just grew up with this constant soundtrack of weirdness 279 00:15:21,920 --> 00:15:25,960 Speaker 1: and it made sense to me. And she she dated musicians. Um, 280 00:15:25,960 --> 00:15:31,240 Speaker 1: my uncle was a musician. My great grandmother actually taught 281 00:15:31,720 --> 00:15:36,040 Speaker 1: classical composition to Arthur Fiedler. She was Arthur Feedler's mentor. 282 00:15:36,400 --> 00:15:40,720 Speaker 1: So I grew up in this weird, idiosyncratic musical household. 283 00:15:41,080 --> 00:15:44,160 Speaker 1: So I never thought as I was growing up that 284 00:15:44,160 --> 00:15:46,400 Speaker 1: I would have a career as a musician. I just 285 00:15:46,480 --> 00:15:49,000 Speaker 1: knew that I loved music and I wanted to be 286 00:15:49,040 --> 00:15:50,920 Speaker 1: a part of it. And I had a lot of 287 00:15:50,960 --> 00:15:53,720 Speaker 1: free time because I wasn't very good at sports and 288 00:15:54,680 --> 00:15:57,680 Speaker 1: did you do well in school? I did okay. So 289 00:15:58,200 --> 00:16:00,920 Speaker 1: my name Moby is an name that I've had since 290 00:16:00,920 --> 00:16:04,160 Speaker 1: birth because I'm related to Herman Melville. So what I 291 00:16:04,320 --> 00:16:08,080 Speaker 1: learned was when teachers found out that I was descended 292 00:16:08,080 --> 00:16:11,400 Speaker 1: from Herman Melville. They just would add fifteen i Q points. 293 00:16:11,760 --> 00:16:13,520 Speaker 1: They would assume, like, oh, he's got to be like 294 00:16:14,240 --> 00:16:16,960 Speaker 1: erudite because he's descended from Herman Melville. Same thing. I 295 00:16:16,960 --> 00:16:18,960 Speaker 1: went to college and I was a philosophy major, and 296 00:16:18,960 --> 00:16:20,920 Speaker 1: I was not a good student. But I realized the 297 00:16:20,920 --> 00:16:23,600 Speaker 1: moment you tell someone you're a philosophy major, they think 298 00:16:23,640 --> 00:16:27,160 Speaker 1: you're way smarter than you actually are. So like, descended 299 00:16:27,160 --> 00:16:31,720 Speaker 1: from Herman Melville philosophy major. Like that just added thirty 300 00:16:31,800 --> 00:16:36,480 Speaker 1: bonus points to my i Q totally unwarranted. Um. So 301 00:16:36,520 --> 00:16:38,320 Speaker 1: I had growing up, had a lot of free time, 302 00:16:38,800 --> 00:16:42,040 Speaker 1: had access to instruments, and was raised in this odd 303 00:16:42,040 --> 00:16:44,320 Speaker 1: creative family. So I just started writing music when I 304 00:16:44,360 --> 00:16:48,720 Speaker 1: was on ten or eleven UM and i'd also my 305 00:16:48,800 --> 00:16:51,400 Speaker 1: uncle had given me some hand me down photo equipment, 306 00:16:51,400 --> 00:16:55,000 Speaker 1: so I started taking pictures. And here's an odd, little 307 00:16:55,000 --> 00:16:57,320 Speaker 1: funny story. My best friend when I was nine years 308 00:16:57,320 --> 00:17:01,560 Speaker 1: old was Robert Downey Jr. And so his dad gave 309 00:17:01,680 --> 00:17:05,159 Speaker 1: us because his dad was a filmmaker, and Darien he 310 00:17:05,440 --> 00:17:11,320 Speaker 1: lived there. Darien has a baffling array of odd public 311 00:17:11,320 --> 00:17:14,520 Speaker 1: figures like and Coulter and Gus fan Zant and Robert 312 00:17:14,560 --> 00:17:18,800 Speaker 1: Downey Jr. And Chloe seven Ye and Stevo from Jackass 313 00:17:18,840 --> 00:17:21,040 Speaker 1: and the author Rick Moody from this little town of 314 00:17:21,080 --> 00:17:24,399 Speaker 1: fourteen thousand people, very odd people the fact, and and 315 00:17:24,520 --> 00:17:27,480 Speaker 1: Colton and Sans and went to the same high school. Yes, 316 00:17:27,520 --> 00:17:31,200 Speaker 1: so Robert and I made with his this super eight 317 00:17:31,240 --> 00:17:33,560 Speaker 1: camera his dad when we were not eight nine years old. 318 00:17:33,560 --> 00:17:37,359 Speaker 1: We started making little films long since disappeared. But it 319 00:17:37,440 --> 00:17:40,760 Speaker 1: was just part of the ethos of just go out 320 00:17:40,840 --> 00:17:44,000 Speaker 1: and make things with no expectation that there would be 321 00:17:44,840 --> 00:17:47,760 Speaker 1: a career or that you'd even make anything good. But 322 00:17:47,840 --> 00:17:50,440 Speaker 1: I just started writing and taking pictures and making little 323 00:17:50,480 --> 00:17:53,760 Speaker 1: movies and writing songs and doing all this and make 324 00:17:53,840 --> 00:17:57,399 Speaker 1: little movies. How if you were broke, uh super eight camera, 325 00:17:57,760 --> 00:17:59,520 Speaker 1: you got your hands on a Super eight camera. Yeah 326 00:17:59,560 --> 00:18:02,960 Speaker 1: I'm gonna horn shot so yeah, right, like a really cheap, 327 00:18:03,040 --> 00:18:06,320 Speaker 1: shitty super and you could develop film, you know, like 328 00:18:06,760 --> 00:18:09,119 Speaker 1: two and a half minutes of Super eight film, and 329 00:18:09,119 --> 00:18:12,719 Speaker 1: then you edit it on your kitchen table tape. Yea 330 00:18:14,320 --> 00:18:17,560 Speaker 1: a dracula and I'm emerging from the coffin. And then 331 00:18:17,560 --> 00:18:20,200 Speaker 1: you develop it and you show it on a sheet 332 00:18:20,440 --> 00:18:23,760 Speaker 1: kitchen yeah, you're ready to get a can? What's the 333 00:18:23,760 --> 00:18:28,080 Speaker 1: first song you wrote? Do you remember? Do you remember? Boy? Well? 334 00:18:28,920 --> 00:18:31,760 Speaker 1: So I started playing guitar, and then I had a 335 00:18:31,920 --> 00:18:35,680 Speaker 1: very odd music teacher. He played in a heavy metal band, 336 00:18:36,080 --> 00:18:39,399 Speaker 1: but he also loved jazz fusion and classical music. So 337 00:18:39,520 --> 00:18:42,480 Speaker 1: one day we would learn Chris Razola. He would teach 338 00:18:42,520 --> 00:18:44,280 Speaker 1: me a van Halen song, even though I never really 339 00:18:44,320 --> 00:18:46,120 Speaker 1: liked van Halen that much, and then we would do 340 00:18:46,520 --> 00:18:49,920 Speaker 1: a Larry Carlton or weather Report jazz fusion thing, which 341 00:18:49,920 --> 00:18:53,080 Speaker 1: I also didn't like that much, and then do a 342 00:18:53,160 --> 00:18:55,960 Speaker 1: Bach cantata, which I love and I still to this 343 00:18:56,040 --> 00:18:58,480 Speaker 1: day love. And then I broke his heart because when 344 00:18:58,480 --> 00:19:02,920 Speaker 1: I was thirteen, I discovered punk rock, and so I 345 00:19:03,040 --> 00:19:06,320 Speaker 1: sort of cast aside, like music theory and the sort 346 00:19:06,359 --> 00:19:09,720 Speaker 1: of idiosyncratic but formal music education. I had to play 347 00:19:09,760 --> 00:19:11,800 Speaker 1: clash covers, and because he thought I was going to 348 00:19:11,880 --> 00:19:15,479 Speaker 1: go on to be this virtue also guitarist and the 349 00:19:15,520 --> 00:19:19,760 Speaker 1: iron Yeah, and the irony is by embracing punk rock 350 00:19:20,160 --> 00:19:24,719 Speaker 1: and non virtuosic, if that's the word, I just invented music. 351 00:19:25,200 --> 00:19:27,680 Speaker 1: I ended up coming back to the world of classical 352 00:19:27,760 --> 00:19:31,760 Speaker 1: music and have since started playing with orchestras. Yeah, I 353 00:19:31,800 --> 00:19:35,439 Speaker 1: just I just did a performance with Dudamel in the 354 00:19:35,520 --> 00:19:36,960 Speaker 1: l A film. Did you wouldn't know? What did you 355 00:19:36,960 --> 00:19:40,520 Speaker 1: guys play? We? Well, they was two programs. The first 356 00:19:40,560 --> 00:19:44,600 Speaker 1: program was l A Composers, and they put a piece 357 00:19:44,640 --> 00:19:47,560 Speaker 1: of music of mine in. There's a song that I'd 358 00:19:47,560 --> 00:19:52,440 Speaker 1: written for a Michael Mann movie years ago for heat Heat, 359 00:19:52,520 --> 00:19:55,879 Speaker 1: It's a very end when al Pacino and Robert de 360 00:19:55,960 --> 00:19:59,720 Speaker 1: Niro finally, I don't want to spoiler alert, so they 361 00:19:59,760 --> 00:20:01,679 Speaker 1: did at as part of the first program, and the 362 00:20:01,720 --> 00:20:05,399 Speaker 1: second program was all orchestral versions of my music. During 363 00:20:05,400 --> 00:20:07,480 Speaker 1: the rehearsal there was I don't know a hundred and 364 00:20:07,480 --> 00:20:09,600 Speaker 1: eighty of us on stage because we had a huge choir, 365 00:20:10,160 --> 00:20:13,679 Speaker 1: full orchestra, and I realized, like, okay, we're doing my 366 00:20:13,760 --> 00:20:17,520 Speaker 1: music and I'm, without question the least talented musician on 367 00:20:17,640 --> 00:20:19,760 Speaker 1: stage right now, Like I'm the person who like if 368 00:20:19,800 --> 00:20:22,720 Speaker 1: I stopped playing, no one will notice. When God moving 369 00:20:22,760 --> 00:20:25,120 Speaker 1: over the face of the waters, there's this big crescendo, 370 00:20:25,320 --> 00:20:29,320 Speaker 1: you know, it's like timpani and symbols, and I got 371 00:20:29,359 --> 00:20:34,760 Speaker 1: so annoyed because the percussion had come in early, and 372 00:20:34,760 --> 00:20:36,080 Speaker 1: I was like, what like, this is the l A 373 00:20:36,119 --> 00:20:39,920 Speaker 1: Phil How did they screw up? And I realized there 374 00:20:40,000 --> 00:20:43,320 Speaker 1: was a thunderstorm and I was like, so this song 375 00:20:43,400 --> 00:20:44,840 Speaker 1: is called God Moving over the face of the water. 376 00:20:44,920 --> 00:20:47,720 Speaker 1: Keep in mind this is in September. This is sort 377 00:20:47,720 --> 00:20:50,520 Speaker 1: of good theological argument for the existence of God that 378 00:20:50,600 --> 00:20:53,760 Speaker 1: he plays percussion during classical music. Do you did this 379 00:20:53,840 --> 00:20:56,280 Speaker 1: recently with the l A Though, what's the first time 380 00:20:56,280 --> 00:20:58,560 Speaker 1: you did that? Well, the first time was actually Michael 381 00:20:58,560 --> 00:21:04,639 Speaker 1: Mann for yeah, I had written some classical pieces. He 382 00:21:04,640 --> 00:21:11,159 Speaker 1: heard them, and this was unpublished. I there were no 383 00:21:11,280 --> 00:21:14,280 Speaker 1: that I'd put them as A B sides on and 384 00:21:14,400 --> 00:21:16,680 Speaker 1: somehow he had heard them and I We then had 385 00:21:16,720 --> 00:21:18,720 Speaker 1: one of the weirdest phone calls. Do you know, Michael, 386 00:21:18,800 --> 00:21:24,520 Speaker 1: I'm sure, so we're friends. I used that word those leaks. 387 00:21:24,560 --> 00:21:26,760 Speaker 1: I don't know if in my mind he and I 388 00:21:26,800 --> 00:21:30,720 Speaker 1: are friends. But he's a odd, wonderful, creative man. But 389 00:21:30,800 --> 00:21:34,080 Speaker 1: like our first phone call was he got my number 390 00:21:35,000 --> 00:21:37,520 Speaker 1: and he called me up and he spent forty five 391 00:21:37,600 --> 00:21:40,040 Speaker 1: minutes telling me the story of heat and hung up 392 00:21:40,080 --> 00:21:42,440 Speaker 1: the phone. I didn't say one word apart from hello, 393 00:21:42,520 --> 00:21:44,200 Speaker 1: so I was like hello, he said, maybe this Michael 394 00:21:44,200 --> 00:21:48,080 Speaker 1: Man forty five minutes soliloquy, telling me in great detail 395 00:21:48,160 --> 00:21:50,640 Speaker 1: everything about heat, like the archetypes that are going on 396 00:21:50,760 --> 00:21:53,120 Speaker 1: for like the classical element, the moment he has done. 397 00:21:53,119 --> 00:21:55,560 Speaker 1: He just hung up and I was like, what just 398 00:21:56,080 --> 00:22:00,600 Speaker 1: I'd never spoken two like an esteemed filmed rector before, 399 00:22:00,640 --> 00:22:02,200 Speaker 1: And I was like, is this is how film directors 400 00:22:02,200 --> 00:22:03,960 Speaker 1: talk to people? Just call up and talk for four 401 00:22:03,960 --> 00:22:06,439 Speaker 1: the teve minutes and hang up the phone. That was 402 00:22:06,480 --> 00:22:10,000 Speaker 1: the first time you had provided score for a film? Well, 403 00:22:10,320 --> 00:22:13,440 Speaker 1: I went to Sunny Purchase briefly, um and I had 404 00:22:13,440 --> 00:22:16,840 Speaker 1: some friends in the experimental film program there, and so 405 00:22:17,560 --> 00:22:21,080 Speaker 1: my friend Paul made an experimental movie called Me I 406 00:22:21,320 --> 00:22:26,720 Speaker 1: the Onion in nineteen So technically that would have been 407 00:22:26,720 --> 00:22:30,359 Speaker 1: my first foray in the film composing Beyond me I 408 00:22:30,520 --> 00:22:32,760 Speaker 1: the Onion, Yeah, I made it. Michael Mann was the first. 409 00:22:33,240 --> 00:22:34,800 Speaker 1: Did it lead to how many? How many other films 410 00:22:34,800 --> 00:22:39,399 Speaker 1: have you contributed music to? I also I have a 411 00:22:39,440 --> 00:22:42,160 Speaker 1: weird website called moby gratis dot com and it gives 412 00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:47,080 Speaker 1: free music to independent filmmakers, nonprofits, film students. So if 413 00:22:47,080 --> 00:22:51,440 Speaker 1: we count that, ten thousand films, but those are I'm 414 00:22:51,480 --> 00:22:55,520 Speaker 1: like three minutes short films where people hired hired. I 415 00:22:55,800 --> 00:23:00,840 Speaker 1: wouldn't know hundreds thousands. I mean like not not accessing 416 00:23:00,840 --> 00:23:03,320 Speaker 1: your music you published, they hired you to do score 417 00:23:03,359 --> 00:23:09,480 Speaker 1: four oh, because there's the licensing music, licensing music, and 418 00:23:09,560 --> 00:23:12,040 Speaker 1: that's like it's the greatest thing in the world because 419 00:23:12,040 --> 00:23:13,800 Speaker 1: all you have to do is say yes, you don't 420 00:23:13,840 --> 00:23:17,720 Speaker 1: there's no work involved apart from that actually writing music. 421 00:23:17,720 --> 00:23:19,320 Speaker 1: So when I moved to l A after I got 422 00:23:19,320 --> 00:23:22,840 Speaker 1: sober the first time, this most like ten years ago, 423 00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:26,560 Speaker 1: I got sober, and I move to twice um yeah, 424 00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:32,199 Speaker 1: once followed by a glorious thirteen year long relapse, and 425 00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:35,560 Speaker 1: then again in two thousand and eight. And so then 426 00:23:35,600 --> 00:23:37,760 Speaker 1: I moved to l A. And I thought, Okay, I'm 427 00:23:37,760 --> 00:23:40,840 Speaker 1: middle aged, I'm sober, I'm in Los Angeles. I need 428 00:23:40,880 --> 00:23:43,800 Speaker 1: to fully commit myself to film composing. And then I 429 00:23:43,800 --> 00:23:48,679 Speaker 1: realized I really don't like film composing, Like it's what 430 00:23:48,800 --> 00:23:52,399 Speaker 1: about it, don't you like? Uh, well, I can like 431 00:23:52,400 --> 00:23:54,560 Speaker 1: when I work on my own music, it's just me 432 00:23:54,600 --> 00:23:58,200 Speaker 1: in the studio. There's no music supervisor, there's no director, 433 00:23:58,280 --> 00:24:01,560 Speaker 1: there's no producer. I can kind of I have some 434 00:24:01,680 --> 00:24:04,240 Speaker 1: complete self sufficiency. I don't have to respond to other 435 00:24:04,240 --> 00:24:07,040 Speaker 1: people's comments, and as an only child who doesn't do 436 00:24:07,160 --> 00:24:10,480 Speaker 1: well with people, that's nice. And my friends were great 437 00:24:10,480 --> 00:24:13,960 Speaker 1: film composers. Part of their skill set is knowing how 438 00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:16,800 Speaker 1: to deal with twenty different executives at the same time. 439 00:24:17,040 --> 00:24:19,920 Speaker 1: And I just it was too tremending skill to have 440 00:24:20,480 --> 00:24:32,280 Speaker 1: and a lot of anacs. This is God moving over 441 00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:35,560 Speaker 1: the face of the waters. The piece MOBI wrote for 442 00:24:35,640 --> 00:24:39,080 Speaker 1: Heat after a lot of input from executives at Warner 443 00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:43,560 Speaker 1: Brothers and director Michael Mann. Stephen Daldry is another great 444 00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:47,119 Speaker 1: film director with strong opinions about how everyone should do 445 00:24:47,160 --> 00:24:49,639 Speaker 1: their jobs. I find it really crazy when it is 446 00:24:49,680 --> 00:24:53,000 Speaker 1: coming self prepared because they've done some journey that they're 447 00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:56,000 Speaker 1: getting it's commonly my character and you get it's not 448 00:24:56,080 --> 00:24:59,280 Speaker 1: your character, and we're gonna make it up now interesting, 449 00:24:59,359 --> 00:25:01,800 Speaker 1: I'm gonna be for that. It's ours. Well, my character 450 00:25:01,800 --> 00:25:05,480 Speaker 1: wouldn't do that. Well, let's change the character. Then. The 451 00:25:05,560 --> 00:25:08,719 Speaker 1: rest of my conversation with Stephen Daldry can be found 452 00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:19,200 Speaker 1: in our archive. And here's the thing, dot org more 453 00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:33,439 Speaker 1: Moby in a minute. This is Alec Baldwin and you 454 00:25:33,480 --> 00:25:41,680 Speaker 1: were listening to here's the thing. M Moby never would 455 00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:44,159 Speaker 1: have ended up so low if he hadn't been so 456 00:25:44,280 --> 00:25:48,560 Speaker 1: desperate to be lifted up. He craved the affirmation of fame. 457 00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:52,280 Speaker 1: I loved it, and I just wanted more. This guy 458 00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:55,560 Speaker 1: that was this isolated guy that was left alone. You 459 00:25:55,600 --> 00:25:58,440 Speaker 1: can't get enough of that. Yeah, I mean, all of 460 00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:02,919 Speaker 1: a sudden, I was being invited to fancy parties, meeting 461 00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:08,160 Speaker 1: heads of state, being flown around the world on private plane. 462 00:26:08,920 --> 00:26:11,040 Speaker 1: I mean I still have them. You know. It's like 463 00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:14,920 Speaker 1: suddenly like people are competing about who gets to dress 464 00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:16,679 Speaker 1: you for the Red carpet, and you know it's like 465 00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:19,199 Speaker 1: for Sacchi and Calvin Klein are like, oh well, let 466 00:26:19,280 --> 00:26:21,919 Speaker 1: us send you free tuxedos. I was like, you know, 467 00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:26,040 Speaker 1: before this record, I was buying closed at Salvation Army 468 00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:28,800 Speaker 1: on the Corner of Life. I had in printed. Yeah, 469 00:26:29,359 --> 00:26:33,120 Speaker 1: like it was great. And then of course it wasn't great. 470 00:26:33,160 --> 00:26:35,080 Speaker 1: You know, like my narcissism got out of control of 471 00:26:35,119 --> 00:26:39,520 Speaker 1: my entitlement because I felt at the time, like two thousand, 472 00:26:39,520 --> 00:26:41,639 Speaker 1: two thousand and one, two thousand two, I felt that 473 00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:44,960 Speaker 1: all I needed to be happy was constant love and 474 00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:48,200 Speaker 1: attention from every person on the planet. Um to make 475 00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:49,960 Speaker 1: ten million dollars a year for the rest of my 476 00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:53,040 Speaker 1: life and to make sure that I could be as 477 00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:56,880 Speaker 1: promiscuous as possible, do as many drugs as possible, and 478 00:26:57,440 --> 00:27:02,000 Speaker 1: drink as much as possible without consequences. So obviously, in 479 00:27:02,119 --> 00:27:05,000 Speaker 1: hindsight I recognize how certain unrealistic it is, but at 480 00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:07,520 Speaker 1: the time I just wanted, like every night to be 481 00:27:08,359 --> 00:27:14,320 Speaker 1: like this indulgent festival of narcissism. And can you tell 482 00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:16,320 Speaker 1: me some of these stories that were in the book? Yeah, 483 00:27:16,359 --> 00:27:18,679 Speaker 1: that was a weird one. We took helicopters to Staaten 484 00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:21,520 Speaker 1: Island and had this weird dinner with the guy who 485 00:27:21,600 --> 00:27:23,959 Speaker 1: apparently invented the cabbage patch doll and then went on 486 00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:26,760 Speaker 1: to produce Stephen Sigal movies. And then we left and 487 00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:29,280 Speaker 1: I went to a party on Park Avenue, very drunk. 488 00:27:29,600 --> 00:27:31,600 Speaker 1: We show up and I met some friends and they 489 00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:34,000 Speaker 1: were talking about this game that they played in college 490 00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:37,800 Speaker 1: called knob touch. And what knob touches? You take your 491 00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:40,439 Speaker 1: flaccid penis out of your pants and you brush up 492 00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:43,600 Speaker 1: against people and you win by the number of people 493 00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:45,439 Speaker 1: you can brush up against. And I've never done this, 494 00:27:46,520 --> 00:27:50,120 Speaker 1: and my date, Miss new Hampshire, challenged me to play 495 00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:52,679 Speaker 1: knob touch. And there's only one human being on the planet. 496 00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:55,520 Speaker 1: I have brushed my flaccid penis against that man is 497 00:27:55,520 --> 00:27:59,080 Speaker 1: currently the president of the United States. No, yes, where 498 00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:01,560 Speaker 1: was this being hell some bar in part like one 499 00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:04,879 Speaker 1: of those big restaurants on Park Avenue and like it 500 00:28:04,960 --> 00:28:07,080 Speaker 1: and this isn't a private party. I mean it was 501 00:28:07,280 --> 00:28:10,200 Speaker 1: like a one of those New York style parties where 502 00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:13,600 Speaker 1: maybe it was like Ralph Lauren was launching a new 503 00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:16,119 Speaker 1: paint color or something. You know, those those things that 504 00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:18,040 Speaker 1: you just go to and you're not like, I don't 505 00:28:18,080 --> 00:28:19,879 Speaker 1: know why, I have a couple of drinks. Yeah, so 506 00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:23,600 Speaker 1: it's very people and I brushed my flaccid the head 507 00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:26,399 Speaker 1: of your penis against Donald Trump brush. He didn't know 508 00:28:26,760 --> 00:28:30,879 Speaker 1: it was dark. And what's funny is the publisher of 509 00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:32,800 Speaker 1: the book said, like, in this climate, I don't know 510 00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:34,640 Speaker 1: if you should include that. I was like, you know what, 511 00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:37,679 Speaker 1: I think Donald Trump being able to say that I 512 00:28:37,960 --> 00:28:44,640 Speaker 1: met him? Yeah. Um, so you're there and and you're 513 00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:48,680 Speaker 1: this big superstar. When did you begin to think we 514 00:28:48,680 --> 00:28:50,960 Speaker 1: really should get back into the studio and make another album. 515 00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:54,120 Speaker 1: So then, like the tour for Play was supposed to 516 00:28:54,160 --> 00:28:56,360 Speaker 1: be three and a half weeks long, and it ended 517 00:28:56,400 --> 00:28:59,640 Speaker 1: up being twenty six months long. But the whole time 518 00:28:59,640 --> 00:29:05,080 Speaker 1: because I've always compulsively written music. I have now probably 519 00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:08,120 Speaker 1: like eight or nine thousand pieces of unreleased pieces of music. 520 00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:13,240 Speaker 1: So even at the bottom of my like alcoholism, drug addiction, narcissism, entitlement, 521 00:29:13,320 --> 00:29:18,840 Speaker 1: self destruction, I was kept writing music. So the problem, yeah, 522 00:29:18,840 --> 00:29:22,320 Speaker 1: the problem with albums was to look at like a 523 00:29:22,440 --> 00:29:24,840 Speaker 1: thousand songs and figure out how do you get fifteen 524 00:29:24,920 --> 00:29:26,720 Speaker 1: to put on an album. It doesn't mean they're good. 525 00:29:26,800 --> 00:29:29,360 Speaker 1: And when I say eight thousand pieces of unreleased music, 526 00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:31,800 Speaker 1: I'm not speaking to the quality of them, like a 527 00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:34,800 Speaker 1: lot of its garbage. But I just it's this weird 528 00:29:35,640 --> 00:29:38,680 Speaker 1: almost like you know there's that word lag area. I 529 00:29:38,760 --> 00:29:41,960 Speaker 1: have that of music where I just keep making it 530 00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:44,280 Speaker 1: without any concern for whether it's good or bad. I 531 00:29:44,320 --> 00:29:48,600 Speaker 1: just keep writing and so it's like a broken pipe. Yeah, yeah, 532 00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:50,400 Speaker 1: just like you turn on the faucet and just leave 533 00:29:50,440 --> 00:29:55,640 Speaker 1: it on. So the next album was called eighteen UM, 534 00:29:55,680 --> 00:29:58,280 Speaker 1: and I I thought, like, okay, this is like Play 535 00:29:58,400 --> 00:30:00,400 Speaker 1: was big. I want this to be bigger, and so 536 00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:03,320 Speaker 1: like I think the promo tour for the next album 537 00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:05,680 Speaker 1: was five months long, like five months of just like 538 00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:07,640 Speaker 1: you've done it as well, like traveling around the world, 539 00:30:07,640 --> 00:30:10,880 Speaker 1: sitting in hotel rooms, going to every country, every TV show, everything, 540 00:30:11,160 --> 00:30:13,800 Speaker 1: And I just wanted to be more famous, have more money, 541 00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:16,280 Speaker 1: sleep with more people, drink more, do more drugs too, 542 00:30:16,320 --> 00:30:19,080 Speaker 1: or more just for the guy that was isolated. Are 543 00:30:19,080 --> 00:30:21,320 Speaker 1: you sitting there saying this is more like it now? 544 00:30:21,400 --> 00:30:23,720 Speaker 1: Everybody wants to take their clothes off and jump in 545 00:30:23,760 --> 00:30:27,400 Speaker 1: bed with me. And it seems like fame was going 546 00:30:27,560 --> 00:30:30,120 Speaker 1: And this is when I say it out loud, it 547 00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:33,440 Speaker 1: just sounds so absurd, I honestly, and I wouldn't have 548 00:30:33,480 --> 00:30:35,680 Speaker 1: admitted this, but deep down, what I believed was that 549 00:30:36,360 --> 00:30:40,360 Speaker 1: fame was going to fix everything, like every all the 550 00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:45,800 Speaker 1: trauma from child, the sense the senses of all that fear, 551 00:30:46,080 --> 00:30:48,840 Speaker 1: you know, the self centered fear, self sided, narcissistic fear 552 00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:50,640 Speaker 1: is the root of all of our problems. And living 553 00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:54,080 Speaker 1: in a constant state, living in a constant state of agitation, 554 00:30:54,320 --> 00:30:56,160 Speaker 1: worrying about am I going to get this is gonna 555 00:30:56,160 --> 00:30:59,440 Speaker 1: be taken away from me? Which defines my life. They 556 00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:04,160 Speaker 1: say in a twelve step literature, they say that um 557 00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:07,080 Speaker 1: our greatest fear is to lose something we already have 558 00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:11,360 Speaker 1: or not get something that we want. I just thought, oh, 559 00:31:11,800 --> 00:31:14,520 Speaker 1: fame will fix it, as long as I can keep 560 00:31:14,560 --> 00:31:17,520 Speaker 1: getting invited to great parties and drinking and doing drugs, 561 00:31:17,680 --> 00:31:20,400 Speaker 1: and as long as I get good reviews. But then 562 00:31:21,040 --> 00:31:25,240 Speaker 1: the universe, with its sense of humor, took away all 563 00:31:25,280 --> 00:31:29,680 Speaker 1: the things that I know. They have a sense why. 564 00:31:29,880 --> 00:31:33,680 Speaker 1: I think because on an on a sort of artistic level, 565 00:31:34,120 --> 00:31:36,560 Speaker 1: there came a time, and I'm so ashamed to admit this, 566 00:31:36,800 --> 00:31:39,360 Speaker 1: and around two thousand to two thousand three, I wanted 567 00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:43,160 Speaker 1: to make great music, but I wanted music to be 568 00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:45,600 Speaker 1: a means to an end where I wanted it to 569 00:31:45,680 --> 00:31:49,000 Speaker 1: like sustain my career. So before my life had just 570 00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:52,640 Speaker 1: been spent. Yeah, And I never thought I don't want 571 00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:55,640 Speaker 1: to go backwards. Yeah, I was like and before that, 572 00:31:55,720 --> 00:31:57,959 Speaker 1: all I wanted to do was make music that I loved, 573 00:31:58,160 --> 00:32:01,959 Speaker 1: you know, that music that somehow was like emotion, just beautiful, expressive. 574 00:32:02,400 --> 00:32:05,160 Speaker 1: Two thousand to two thousand three, years after the release 575 00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:07,760 Speaker 1: of Play, I still wanted it to be beautiful, but 576 00:32:07,960 --> 00:32:12,600 Speaker 1: first and foremost commercially Volume, it was a little less 577 00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:15,000 Speaker 1: beautiful and it sold more copies. That was okay with me, 578 00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:19,200 Speaker 1: and I started thinking Okay, Well, if I produced this 579 00:32:19,280 --> 00:32:21,200 Speaker 1: type of song, it'll get on the radio. And if 580 00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:24,840 Speaker 1: I produce this, it'll sell more. And like the paradox, 581 00:32:24,920 --> 00:32:27,840 Speaker 1: the wonderful in hindsight, the wonderful paradox is the more 582 00:32:27,880 --> 00:32:31,280 Speaker 1: of an effort I made to be famous, the less 583 00:32:31,360 --> 00:32:33,760 Speaker 1: famous I became. You know, you were very open with 584 00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:37,040 Speaker 1: the press. You courted the press, You would speak to anybody. 585 00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:39,560 Speaker 1: You know. For me, the problem has always been the 586 00:32:39,880 --> 00:32:42,840 Speaker 1: you know, the press is never it's it's a sad 587 00:32:43,560 --> 00:32:45,520 Speaker 1: It does sometimes make me sad. I get I get 588 00:32:45,520 --> 00:32:47,120 Speaker 1: over it, and then every now and then it comes 589 00:32:47,160 --> 00:32:49,360 Speaker 1: up in black jacks me again out of nowhere, like 590 00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:51,400 Speaker 1: it's in an alley way. I get mugged by it again, 591 00:32:51,960 --> 00:32:54,800 Speaker 1: which is they're never going to interpret who you really 592 00:32:54,800 --> 00:32:56,920 Speaker 1: are to the public. Never. They don't have the ability. 593 00:32:57,600 --> 00:33:01,120 Speaker 1: It's it's it's so painful that this understanding that goes 594 00:33:01,160 --> 00:33:04,240 Speaker 1: hand in hand with it, especially because I when I 595 00:33:04,440 --> 00:33:05,960 Speaker 1: don't know if you had this experience, but when I 596 00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:10,480 Speaker 1: started getting press attention, I loved it. In the beginning 597 00:33:10,720 --> 00:33:13,240 Speaker 1: they were so nice, and the reviews were gentle, and 598 00:33:13,240 --> 00:33:15,640 Speaker 1: then the reviews were great, and then you have this 599 00:33:15,760 --> 00:33:19,320 Speaker 1: sweet spot where you have like fame and you're lauded 600 00:33:19,320 --> 00:33:22,200 Speaker 1: in the press. And then it turned. And then all 601 00:33:22,200 --> 00:33:24,680 Speaker 1: of a sudden, the reviews got bad, the articles got bad, 602 00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:26,960 Speaker 1: and I felt so betrayed. I was like, why why 603 00:33:26,960 --> 00:33:30,240 Speaker 1: can't you guys just be nice? But then time passes 604 00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:32,959 Speaker 1: and I'm like, in a way, like God, bless them 605 00:33:33,120 --> 00:33:38,120 Speaker 1: for turning, because I've since then like when when you're rejected, 606 00:33:38,760 --> 00:33:42,000 Speaker 1: when the press rejects you, you then, at least for me, 607 00:33:42,080 --> 00:33:44,560 Speaker 1: I had to sort of look like, Okay, well who 608 00:33:44,640 --> 00:33:48,200 Speaker 1: am I without that, you know, and where does my 609 00:33:48,280 --> 00:33:52,520 Speaker 1: worth and sense of self come from? And like realizing, oh, 610 00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:56,040 Speaker 1: if it comes from the opinions of people I've never met, 611 00:33:56,400 --> 00:33:59,720 Speaker 1: there's something really unstable and unhealthy there, you know. I 612 00:33:59,720 --> 00:34:02,400 Speaker 1: had this epiphany recently. I was in l a middle 613 00:34:02,400 --> 00:34:05,760 Speaker 1: of February, hiking and Griffiths Park and it was one 614 00:34:05,800 --> 00:34:08,800 Speaker 1: of those beautiful days, like the sun is shining, coyotes 615 00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:12,320 Speaker 1: are running around, hummingbirds are flying by, and I suddenly 616 00:34:12,320 --> 00:34:15,799 Speaker 1: thought like, Okay, if my last album had sold ten 617 00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:19,240 Speaker 1: million copies, and if every journalist on the planet loved 618 00:34:19,239 --> 00:34:21,799 Speaker 1: me and wrote great things about me, and if I 619 00:34:21,840 --> 00:34:24,520 Speaker 1: was dating the most beautiful woman on the planet. How 620 00:34:24,560 --> 00:34:27,840 Speaker 1: would this moment be better? And I was like, it 621 00:34:27,880 --> 00:34:31,160 Speaker 1: wouldn't like you know, good reviews, good press, all this 622 00:34:31,200 --> 00:34:33,640 Speaker 1: stuff doesn't And I know I sound like a crazy 623 00:34:33,760 --> 00:34:36,879 Speaker 1: New Age hippy, but like it wouldn't affect like that 624 00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:40,600 Speaker 1: moment of like like standing in the sun wearing a 625 00:34:40,640 --> 00:34:45,960 Speaker 1: T shirt, smelling sage and lavender, watching the hummingbirds fly by. 626 00:34:46,040 --> 00:34:49,319 Speaker 1: I was like the universe in that moment was so 627 00:34:49,440 --> 00:34:53,120 Speaker 1: benign and indifferent to anything that I cared about, and 628 00:34:53,120 --> 00:34:55,840 Speaker 1: there was something there's sort of like a transcendent liberation, 629 00:34:55,880 --> 00:34:59,040 Speaker 1: almost like emerson Ian style liberation in that that moment. 630 00:34:59,600 --> 00:35:03,399 Speaker 1: I'll that feeling at this point, I just turned sixty one, 631 00:35:03,440 --> 00:35:05,520 Speaker 1: and I'll take that feeling wherever I can get it 632 00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:08,880 Speaker 1: now and and and at my age, I have to 633 00:35:08,920 --> 00:35:12,520 Speaker 1: accept that my creative energies may or may not come 634 00:35:12,560 --> 00:35:15,640 Speaker 1: to the four here, and if they don't, I have 635 00:35:15,719 --> 00:35:19,280 Speaker 1: to find something else to do to get off creatively, 636 00:35:19,280 --> 00:35:22,000 Speaker 1: which is what I do. I completely segregate my creative 637 00:35:22,239 --> 00:35:24,120 Speaker 1: from my commercial in a way that I never thought 638 00:35:24,120 --> 00:35:27,360 Speaker 1: it was possible. And and there's one because you reference 639 00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:29,759 Speaker 1: the twelve and twelve earlier. Um, I don't know if 640 00:35:29,800 --> 00:35:34,160 Speaker 1: that's a twelve Steps is part of your life? Okay, 641 00:35:33,880 --> 00:35:39,399 Speaker 1: thirty four years sober, so it's I mean. And again 642 00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:41,200 Speaker 1: I feel like such a middle age cliche saying this, 643 00:35:41,200 --> 00:35:43,279 Speaker 1: but like the Twelve Steps really, of all the like 644 00:35:43,920 --> 00:35:47,400 Speaker 1: therapeutic things I've been through, the Twelve Steps really saved me. 645 00:35:47,920 --> 00:35:50,800 Speaker 1: And one of the things I learned, as you mentioned, 646 00:35:50,840 --> 00:35:52,640 Speaker 1: was like the role of fear and trying to sort 647 00:35:52,640 --> 00:35:55,880 Speaker 1: of like deconstruct fear and learn from it. But the 648 00:35:55,960 --> 00:35:59,200 Speaker 1: other thing that when I did the Twelve Steps that 649 00:35:59,280 --> 00:36:04,160 Speaker 1: I really loved was all of my judgment up until 650 00:36:04,200 --> 00:36:06,680 Speaker 1: that point was sort of based on the misperception of 651 00:36:06,719 --> 00:36:09,640 Speaker 1: omniscience or fake omniscience. Like when I had an album 652 00:36:09,680 --> 00:36:12,920 Speaker 1: that failed, I was furious because I knew that it 653 00:36:12,960 --> 00:36:15,719 Speaker 1: should have succeeded, because if it has succeeded, it would 654 00:36:15,719 --> 00:36:17,440 Speaker 1: have been better for me. And then all of a 655 00:36:17,440 --> 00:36:19,719 Speaker 1: sudden I realized, like again, in a thirteen point eight 656 00:36:19,719 --> 00:36:23,120 Speaker 1: billion year old universe, I don't have omniscience. I don't 657 00:36:23,160 --> 00:36:26,799 Speaker 1: know causality. If I want something to work out and 658 00:36:26,840 --> 00:36:30,080 Speaker 1: it doesn't work out in a way, I'm like, who 659 00:36:30,160 --> 00:36:33,200 Speaker 1: am I to judge? And in politics as well, because 660 00:36:33,200 --> 00:36:35,320 Speaker 1: I got really involved in politics for a while, it 661 00:36:35,440 --> 00:36:37,680 Speaker 1: was like the vast majority of people on the planet, 662 00:36:38,040 --> 00:36:41,360 Speaker 1: their goal is to keep the lights on tomorrow, you know, 663 00:36:41,400 --> 00:36:45,160 Speaker 1: like they're like they want a job, they want to 664 00:36:45,280 --> 00:36:49,480 Speaker 1: keep their and I have to be like, okay, that's 665 00:36:50,600 --> 00:36:53,000 Speaker 1: It's like with the press as well. Afe to remind myself, 666 00:36:53,040 --> 00:36:55,040 Speaker 1: like most of the people I know were journalists, like 667 00:36:55,280 --> 00:36:57,920 Speaker 1: they're barely able to pay the rent. And I don't 668 00:36:57,960 --> 00:37:00,279 Speaker 1: want to be patronizing or judgmental, but I've sort of 669 00:37:00,320 --> 00:37:04,400 Speaker 1: say like, Okay, my job is not to rely on 670 00:37:04,560 --> 00:37:07,360 Speaker 1: them from my sense of happiness and well being, you know, 671 00:37:07,400 --> 00:37:11,239 Speaker 1: like my sense of strength. Creative, Yeah, the same thing. 672 00:37:11,239 --> 00:37:16,440 Speaker 1: And creatively, if they're too much of a hindrance, you 673 00:37:16,560 --> 00:37:18,840 Speaker 1: move on. You sort of say like, okay, God bless 674 00:37:18,960 --> 00:37:20,839 Speaker 1: you know, like have healthy boundaries. And I just say, 675 00:37:20,880 --> 00:37:23,799 Speaker 1: like it almost makes me think of like that like 676 00:37:23,840 --> 00:37:27,600 Speaker 1: the Rudyard Kipling poem is it if I remember reading 677 00:37:27,600 --> 00:37:29,440 Speaker 1: when I was like eight or nine years old, And 678 00:37:29,480 --> 00:37:33,440 Speaker 1: it's sort of that idea of just keep I just 679 00:37:33,560 --> 00:37:37,600 Speaker 1: keep going, not even from strength and fortitude, more just 680 00:37:37,680 --> 00:37:40,719 Speaker 1: sort of like like a post apocalyptic cockroach, just keep 681 00:37:40,840 --> 00:37:43,760 Speaker 1: plowing forward, like someone steps on you. Okay, you stepped 682 00:37:43,760 --> 00:37:46,359 Speaker 1: on me. Have a good day. I'm going to keep going. 683 00:37:46,360 --> 00:37:48,640 Speaker 1: But this is also if I really became the biggest 684 00:37:48,680 --> 00:37:50,640 Speaker 1: movie star in the world and made hundreds of millions 685 00:37:50,640 --> 00:37:53,200 Speaker 1: of dollars in private planes, who the funk knows what 686 00:37:53,239 --> 00:37:55,080 Speaker 1: I would have done with that. I would have screwed 687 00:37:55,080 --> 00:37:59,760 Speaker 1: that luckily in a way, like as as sober middle 688 00:37:59,760 --> 00:38:04,640 Speaker 1: age guys. Um, I feel like, maybe this is an 689 00:38:04,680 --> 00:38:07,720 Speaker 1: indelicate thing to say, but like a lot of people 690 00:38:07,800 --> 00:38:11,120 Speaker 1: have done the work for us, Like, for example, yeah, 691 00:38:11,280 --> 00:38:15,640 Speaker 1: twenty years ago, I would look at Michael Jackson and say, like, wow, 692 00:38:15,760 --> 00:38:19,680 Speaker 1: look at that. The wealth and the fame and the adulation. Boy, 693 00:38:19,760 --> 00:38:23,799 Speaker 1: oh boy, I'm gonna be glad. I'm glad with him, 694 00:38:24,080 --> 00:38:25,920 Speaker 1: and I'm glad that I was cut off to an 695 00:38:25,920 --> 00:38:29,520 Speaker 1: extent from the access to like excessive wealth and fame 696 00:38:29,560 --> 00:38:31,680 Speaker 1: that he had in me. Again, it's a hard thing 697 00:38:31,719 --> 00:38:33,440 Speaker 1: to talk about because I don't want to malign anyone, 698 00:38:33,600 --> 00:38:36,960 Speaker 1: especially if they're dead or struggling. But like we know, 699 00:38:37,040 --> 00:38:39,680 Speaker 1: I mean the number of public figures who have had 700 00:38:40,200 --> 00:38:44,359 Speaker 1: profound success, profound wealth and it destroys them. I mean, 701 00:38:44,400 --> 00:38:46,520 Speaker 1: like people like you and I are the ones who 702 00:38:46,560 --> 00:38:53,120 Speaker 1: sort of like hopefully emerge unscathed and chastened, with hopefully 703 00:38:53,120 --> 00:38:55,919 Speaker 1: an understanding that we can almost use in the form 704 00:38:55,960 --> 00:38:58,560 Speaker 1: of service, you know, to go out and be like, Okay, 705 00:38:58,680 --> 00:39:01,720 Speaker 1: I've learned a lesson. It's an odd, rare, unique lesson. 706 00:39:02,000 --> 00:39:04,799 Speaker 1: Let me try and do something with it. What was 707 00:39:04,840 --> 00:39:06,920 Speaker 1: there an epiphany? What was the what was the bottom? 708 00:39:07,160 --> 00:39:10,000 Speaker 1: The bottom was? Do you remember a restaurant in New 709 00:39:10,080 --> 00:39:14,080 Speaker 1: York called zen Palette Vegan Chinese restaurant. So this is 710 00:39:14,120 --> 00:39:18,400 Speaker 1: a little analogy. New Year's Eve, I went to the 711 00:39:18,480 --> 00:39:21,880 Speaker 1: Zen Pallette on Ninth Avenue and I ordered yeah, and 712 00:39:21,920 --> 00:39:25,080 Speaker 1: I ordered purple Japanese egg plant, and it disagreed with me. 713 00:39:25,960 --> 00:39:28,560 Speaker 1: And I never ordered purple Japanese ig plan again because 714 00:39:28,600 --> 00:39:33,440 Speaker 1: I had one bad experience with it. Vodka, cocaine, everything. 715 00:39:33,960 --> 00:39:36,440 Speaker 1: I would do it every day and it would kill 716 00:39:36,520 --> 00:39:38,840 Speaker 1: almost kill me and make me sick, and I kept 717 00:39:38,880 --> 00:39:42,840 Speaker 1: going back and basically the consequence what I mean is 718 00:39:42,920 --> 00:39:47,000 Speaker 1: like the rational response to vodka and cocaine if you 719 00:39:47,040 --> 00:39:48,520 Speaker 1: have a night out and the next day you want 720 00:39:48,560 --> 00:39:52,160 Speaker 1: to blow your brains, is to say, wow, that was bad. 721 00:39:52,200 --> 00:39:56,480 Speaker 1: I shan't do that again. As opposed to give me 722 00:39:56,560 --> 00:39:59,399 Speaker 1: more every day for the next fifteen the thing that's 723 00:39:59,440 --> 00:40:04,520 Speaker 1: making me SI. Yeah. And as I got older, because 724 00:40:04,520 --> 00:40:09,240 Speaker 1: you got sober young. Yeah, I got sober at forty 725 00:40:09,680 --> 00:40:14,640 Speaker 1: three and basically to ride the range and the hangovers 726 00:40:14,680 --> 00:40:16,840 Speaker 1: just got worse and worse, and it got to the 727 00:40:16,840 --> 00:40:19,759 Speaker 1: point where I was having heart time stringing sentences together. Yeah. 728 00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:21,239 Speaker 1: I got sober because I moved to l A and 729 00:40:21,320 --> 00:40:23,040 Speaker 1: I was driving a car, and I thought, well, the 730 00:40:23,080 --> 00:40:24,839 Speaker 1: consequence is caught up with Yeah, I thought I came 731 00:40:25,280 --> 00:40:27,160 Speaker 1: and I still drove around ship face for two years 732 00:40:27,160 --> 00:40:30,839 Speaker 1: before I got get smart. I want to talk um, 733 00:40:30,840 --> 00:40:33,920 Speaker 1: When did pure vegetarianism take hold with you? When I 734 00:40:33,960 --> 00:40:37,160 Speaker 1: was growing up, I had that weird paradox of loving 735 00:40:37,200 --> 00:40:40,360 Speaker 1: animals and loving burger king. You know, when I was 736 00:40:40,440 --> 00:40:42,840 Speaker 1: in junior high school high school, like, we had a 737 00:40:42,840 --> 00:40:46,120 Speaker 1: bunch of rescue animals and I loved them unconditionally, but 738 00:40:46,200 --> 00:40:49,480 Speaker 1: I also loved Pepperoni pizza. And I had this one 739 00:40:49,600 --> 00:40:52,160 Speaker 1: rescue cat named Tucker who had found it the dump 740 00:40:52,200 --> 00:40:55,640 Speaker 1: and Dary in Connecticut, and I loved Tucker even more 741 00:40:55,719 --> 00:40:59,200 Speaker 1: unconditionally than I unconditionally loved the other animals. And when 742 00:40:59,239 --> 00:41:01,719 Speaker 1: I was nineteen, I had this like Saul on the 743 00:41:01,800 --> 00:41:05,080 Speaker 1: Road to Damascus moment where suddenly I looked at Tucker 744 00:41:05,160 --> 00:41:07,120 Speaker 1: and I was like, he has two eyes, a central 745 00:41:07,120 --> 00:41:10,120 Speaker 1: nervous system, and a profoundly rich emotional life and a 746 00:41:10,160 --> 00:41:12,960 Speaker 1: deep desire to avoid pain and suffering. And in that 747 00:41:13,000 --> 00:41:16,680 Speaker 1: moment I sort of extrapolated and realized every animal with 748 00:41:16,719 --> 00:41:18,920 Speaker 1: two eyes and a central nervous system has a rich 749 00:41:18,920 --> 00:41:21,760 Speaker 1: emotional life, and it is a deep desire to avoid 750 00:41:21,760 --> 00:41:24,360 Speaker 1: pain and suffering. So that's when I became a vegetarian, 751 00:41:24,400 --> 00:41:28,080 Speaker 1: and then seven became a vegan, and my only vegan 752 00:41:28,120 --> 00:41:31,600 Speaker 1: relapse was in ninety two I had yogurt ones. So 753 00:41:31,640 --> 00:41:34,920 Speaker 1: now I've got thirty one years. What is your diet? 754 00:41:34,920 --> 00:41:37,200 Speaker 1: Basically something you you you you you cook at home, 755 00:41:37,560 --> 00:41:40,239 Speaker 1: have well. Actually, I own a vegan restaurant in Los 756 00:41:40,280 --> 00:41:44,359 Speaker 1: Angeles called Little Pine and it's in Silver Lake. And 757 00:41:44,360 --> 00:41:47,360 Speaker 1: what makes it unique is that one of the profits 758 00:41:47,400 --> 00:41:49,759 Speaker 1: go to animal rights organizations because at this point in 759 00:41:49,800 --> 00:41:54,239 Speaker 1: my life, I don't I mean, I still am selfish 760 00:41:54,280 --> 00:41:57,319 Speaker 1: and probably pretty narcissistic, but all of my work, one 761 00:41:57,840 --> 00:42:00,640 Speaker 1: percent of the money I make professionally goes to the 762 00:42:00,719 --> 00:42:03,319 Speaker 1: charities I work with because I'd rather live. You were 763 00:42:03,360 --> 00:42:06,000 Speaker 1: sort of addressing this, like live a simple life, like 764 00:42:06,080 --> 00:42:10,080 Speaker 1: live very much within my means and make art and 765 00:42:10,160 --> 00:42:14,000 Speaker 1: music for the love of art. I had a couple 766 00:42:14,040 --> 00:42:17,000 Speaker 1: of them, and like I had this crazy sixty acre 767 00:42:17,120 --> 00:42:20,560 Speaker 1: compound up in um Putnam County, and when I moved 768 00:42:20,600 --> 00:42:25,120 Speaker 1: to l A, I moved to a castle. But I 769 00:42:25,160 --> 00:42:27,960 Speaker 1: wasn't I wasn't happy in these places. And I was 770 00:42:28,000 --> 00:42:30,920 Speaker 1: just ask myself, like why am I having this sort 771 00:42:30,920 --> 00:42:34,520 Speaker 1: of like gats Bsque excess, the Citizen Kane style, like 772 00:42:34,600 --> 00:42:37,680 Speaker 1: overcompensation if the end result is like I've tied up 773 00:42:37,719 --> 00:42:40,160 Speaker 1: my resources in real estate and I'm miserable and no 774 00:42:40,200 --> 00:42:42,560 Speaker 1: one's benefiting. So like now I live in a much 775 00:42:42,600 --> 00:42:45,440 Speaker 1: simpler house. It's got a little simple apartment in Park Slope, 776 00:42:45,880 --> 00:42:48,600 Speaker 1: and I can just work for the causes that I 777 00:42:48,640 --> 00:42:54,880 Speaker 1: care about, yeah, and and that freedom to like make art, music, books, etcetera. 778 00:42:55,200 --> 00:42:59,440 Speaker 1: And if there's money, just give the money two different 779 00:42:59,680 --> 00:43:02,359 Speaker 1: cause that that's that's amazing to do that, but that's rare. 780 00:43:02,520 --> 00:43:07,160 Speaker 1: That's rare. That One of the benefits of my weird 781 00:43:07,200 --> 00:43:10,840 Speaker 1: attachment issues is like I'm not married, I don't have kids, 782 00:43:10,840 --> 00:43:14,439 Speaker 1: So like I have this odd autonomy, so I'm able 783 00:43:14,480 --> 00:43:18,080 Speaker 1: to rely on you. Yeah, and so there's it is 784 00:43:18,800 --> 00:43:21,680 Speaker 1: like that there's a luxury to that, like almost like 785 00:43:21,760 --> 00:43:27,680 Speaker 1: a monastic independence. This is I can't think of any 786 00:43:27,760 --> 00:43:29,360 Speaker 1: better way to ask this, and I'm sure there's a 787 00:43:29,360 --> 00:43:31,160 Speaker 1: better way to ask this, but I want to ask, like, 788 00:43:31,239 --> 00:43:33,279 Speaker 1: who cares for you? Where is love in your life? 789 00:43:33,320 --> 00:43:36,360 Speaker 1: If you're so autonomous and you don't have the fans 790 00:43:36,480 --> 00:43:38,359 Speaker 1: and the public and the press, which is a form 791 00:43:38,400 --> 00:43:40,719 Speaker 1: of love, it's like an energy that that that that 792 00:43:40,719 --> 00:43:43,200 Speaker 1: that that simulates love, it isn't really love. But in 793 00:43:43,280 --> 00:43:45,360 Speaker 1: your life, where is the love and the and the 794 00:43:45,480 --> 00:43:48,000 Speaker 1: care in your life? Who's caring for you? Okay, well 795 00:43:48,400 --> 00:43:52,319 Speaker 1: a few friends, close friends are there for you. I 796 00:43:52,360 --> 00:43:57,640 Speaker 1: have a few family members. But there's the answer that 797 00:43:57,719 --> 00:44:01,640 Speaker 1: I'm uncomfortable giving because it's one of the hardest things 798 00:44:01,680 --> 00:44:04,640 Speaker 1: to say in our world. Is so when we do 799 00:44:04,680 --> 00:44:07,320 Speaker 1: the twelve steps. When I got to the third step, 800 00:44:07,360 --> 00:44:09,640 Speaker 1: and the third steps has made a decision to turn 801 00:44:09,680 --> 00:44:11,520 Speaker 1: our life and our will over the care of God 802 00:44:11,640 --> 00:44:14,279 Speaker 1: as we understood God. And I really wrestled with this 803 00:44:14,320 --> 00:44:16,200 Speaker 1: because I was like, I was like, the care of 804 00:44:16,280 --> 00:44:19,120 Speaker 1: God as I understood God, like I don't understand God. 805 00:44:19,719 --> 00:44:21,400 Speaker 1: And that was my epiphany. I was like, oh, the 806 00:44:21,440 --> 00:44:23,840 Speaker 1: God of my understanding is a God that I do 807 00:44:23,960 --> 00:44:28,440 Speaker 1: not understand. And and I was like, but I see 808 00:44:28,520 --> 00:44:32,719 Speaker 1: evidence again, not to anthropomorphize, but I see evidence of 809 00:44:32,840 --> 00:44:39,880 Speaker 1: divinity in kindness, in forgiveness, in the gentleness of puppies, 810 00:44:41,680 --> 00:44:46,640 Speaker 1: report in our immune systems, like I see in my eyes. 811 00:44:46,840 --> 00:44:50,120 Speaker 1: This is all evidence of the divine, and so in 812 00:44:50,239 --> 00:44:53,720 Speaker 1: nature and all these things. And so my honest answer, 813 00:44:53,760 --> 00:44:58,200 Speaker 1: that's an uncomfortable, secular twenty one century answer, is divine 814 00:44:58,400 --> 00:45:04,520 Speaker 1: love is what I search. That's but also it's a component. 815 00:45:05,600 --> 00:45:07,719 Speaker 1: And if I die and someone says, oh, guess what, 816 00:45:07,920 --> 00:45:11,600 Speaker 1: there's no God. We live in this empty existential cipher void, 817 00:45:11,719 --> 00:45:14,000 Speaker 1: like you're just a bunch of like weird molecules that 818 00:45:14,040 --> 00:45:17,560 Speaker 1: have come together arbitrarily. That's okay too. But I I 819 00:45:17,600 --> 00:45:22,319 Speaker 1: do somehow, in my dim I don't know, naive way 820 00:45:22,400 --> 00:45:24,920 Speaker 1: see evidence of the divine. And so it's always trying 821 00:45:24,960 --> 00:45:30,240 Speaker 1: to move towards that. Again, not religious, not denominational, no gender, 822 00:45:30,320 --> 00:45:33,160 Speaker 1: it's just simply this idea of the divinity of like 823 00:45:33,760 --> 00:45:38,040 Speaker 1: forgiveness and puppies and immune systems and the unredacted MOLA 824 00:45:38,120 --> 00:45:43,200 Speaker 1: reports and et cetera. So that's a huge that's that's 825 00:45:43,200 --> 00:45:45,120 Speaker 1: where I get a lot of comfort from what's music 826 00:45:45,160 --> 00:45:47,520 Speaker 1: in your life? Now? You continue to write? Yeah, I 827 00:45:47,520 --> 00:45:50,120 Speaker 1: mean I I work on music mainly for the love 828 00:45:50,120 --> 00:45:53,160 Speaker 1: of music. I refused to tour. Hate touring unless it's 829 00:45:53,160 --> 00:45:57,040 Speaker 1: going to do orchestral things. I had this wonderful realization. 830 00:45:57,239 --> 00:45:59,960 Speaker 1: I guess it's about eleven years ago, the first time 831 00:46:00,120 --> 00:46:02,760 Speaker 1: I met David Lynch, and we've since become pretty good friends. 832 00:46:03,800 --> 00:46:05,479 Speaker 1: L A has that going for it. I live around 833 00:46:05,480 --> 00:46:08,560 Speaker 1: the corner from David Lynch. But when I first met him, 834 00:46:08,560 --> 00:46:12,080 Speaker 1: he was being interviewed at BAFTA in London and he 835 00:46:12,160 --> 00:46:15,719 Speaker 1: said something so reductive and simple and it really struck me. 836 00:46:16,040 --> 00:46:19,880 Speaker 1: As he said, very simply, he said, creativity is beautiful, 837 00:46:20,560 --> 00:46:21,879 Speaker 1: and all of a sudden, I was like, oh my god, 838 00:46:21,880 --> 00:46:26,400 Speaker 1: he's right. Like, why am I compromising my creativity in 839 00:46:26,440 --> 00:46:30,160 Speaker 1: the interest of like commercial gain and for worldliness? I 840 00:46:30,239 --> 00:46:35,760 Speaker 1: was like, as we know, like music is that ineffable beauty, 841 00:46:35,880 --> 00:46:39,799 Speaker 1: Like it can communicate love and transcendent and beauty. That 842 00:46:39,960 --> 00:46:41,840 Speaker 1: should be my goal, not that I'll ever reach it. 843 00:46:42,360 --> 00:46:45,880 Speaker 1: Not that I'll ever make beautiful, ineffable, wonderful music, but 844 00:46:46,000 --> 00:46:48,279 Speaker 1: like if every day I wake up with that as 845 00:46:48,320 --> 00:46:51,080 Speaker 1: the goal and not in the interest of worldliness and 846 00:46:51,520 --> 00:46:55,239 Speaker 1: other people. I mean, you've written a book, You at 847 00:46:55,280 --> 00:46:57,400 Speaker 1: points in your life have conquered the music business. Have 848 00:46:57,440 --> 00:46:59,160 Speaker 1: you ever wanted to try other media? Have you ever 849 00:46:59,160 --> 00:47:01,160 Speaker 1: wanted to make films? Yeah? I'm actually I have a 850 00:47:01,200 --> 00:47:03,040 Speaker 1: weird production company. I feel like I used the word 851 00:47:03,040 --> 00:47:05,440 Speaker 1: weird too much, um, but I have a production company 852 00:47:05,520 --> 00:47:08,040 Speaker 1: in l A. We're working on some documentaries. We've got 853 00:47:08,080 --> 00:47:11,480 Speaker 1: some scripted features, an animated feature that we're trying to develop. 854 00:47:11,520 --> 00:47:13,960 Speaker 1: But if you're handing that too, do you like baking films? 855 00:47:14,960 --> 00:47:19,120 Speaker 1: I love it as long as I have to your 856 00:47:19,200 --> 00:47:22,560 Speaker 1: point the recourse of autonomy, meaning like some of the 857 00:47:22,600 --> 00:47:25,040 Speaker 1: projects were working on, Like, sure, it would be great 858 00:47:25,400 --> 00:47:28,080 Speaker 1: if we have financing, if we get people attached to it, 859 00:47:28,600 --> 00:47:32,320 Speaker 1: but we also have projects that we can do on ourselves. 860 00:47:32,680 --> 00:47:35,360 Speaker 1: And because as we know, like how much time have 861 00:47:35,480 --> 00:47:39,440 Speaker 1: our friends spent waiting, you know, waiting for the financing, 862 00:47:39,520 --> 00:47:42,759 Speaker 1: waiting for this to be greenlit approval and with the 863 00:47:42,760 --> 00:47:46,040 Speaker 1: production company. Again, my goal is to never make personally, 864 00:47:46,120 --> 00:47:48,320 Speaker 1: never make money from it. So if money is generated, 865 00:47:48,400 --> 00:47:50,480 Speaker 1: it goes to my foundation, or it goes to causes 866 00:47:50,480 --> 00:47:54,400 Speaker 1: I work with. And did you say upfront, I'm going 867 00:47:54,440 --> 00:47:56,719 Speaker 1: to be involved in projects in the film business, and 868 00:47:56,760 --> 00:47:58,880 Speaker 1: I never want to make money with them. You're not 869 00:47:58,880 --> 00:48:00,920 Speaker 1: gonna have a lot of meetings and l A, You're 870 00:48:00,920 --> 00:48:03,759 Speaker 1: not going to get at to make money from it. 871 00:48:03,840 --> 00:48:06,000 Speaker 1: Like like the guy who runs my production company and 872 00:48:06,040 --> 00:48:08,279 Speaker 1: my head of development and some of our partners. I 873 00:48:08,360 --> 00:48:13,120 Speaker 1: want them to be fabulously wealthy. I would rather be 874 00:48:13,680 --> 00:48:17,759 Speaker 1: like live in a shitty apartment in Hollywood or I 875 00:48:17,760 --> 00:48:21,080 Speaker 1: don't know, in bed sty and work for causes that 876 00:48:21,120 --> 00:48:22,920 Speaker 1: I care about. I just don't I don't want to 877 00:48:22,960 --> 00:48:26,000 Speaker 1: personally benefit from it. I would like to do a 878 00:48:26,040 --> 00:48:28,960 Speaker 1: documentary film, and I'd like to put you together on 879 00:48:29,000 --> 00:48:30,799 Speaker 1: a project. I'd like to couple of you on a 880 00:48:30,840 --> 00:48:36,040 Speaker 1: film project with someone equally maniacally creative and independent as you. 881 00:48:36,120 --> 00:48:37,719 Speaker 1: I'd like to do a film where like we get 882 00:48:37,719 --> 00:48:39,840 Speaker 1: you in a in a studio and you're gonna do 883 00:48:39,880 --> 00:48:42,680 Speaker 1: like a little project with Coppola to people who don't 884 00:48:42,760 --> 00:48:45,479 Speaker 1: want to collaborate with other people really, and you force 885 00:48:45,600 --> 00:48:47,839 Speaker 1: them to get they agree to collaborate for this one 886 00:48:47,880 --> 00:48:51,560 Speaker 1: time and see what the result would be. Yeah, I 887 00:48:51,640 --> 00:48:53,799 Speaker 1: want to produce that. By the way, you don't have 888 00:48:53,840 --> 00:48:56,799 Speaker 1: to make anybody. My kids are expensive. I'm keeping all 889 00:48:56,840 --> 00:48:59,759 Speaker 1: the money. I think we're done. Then we have a 890 00:49:00,239 --> 00:49:25,279 Speaker 1: thank you Moby composer, musician, recovering addict, and proud ex celebrity. 891 00:49:25,600 --> 00:49:33,080 Speaker 1: Didn't you think he's cool with them? You do? Okay? 892 00:49:35,760 --> 00:49:39,520 Speaker 1: Moby's new book is called Then It Fell Apart. It's 893 00:49:39,600 --> 00:49:44,279 Speaker 1: very funny and very sad. This is Alec Baldwin and 894 00:49:44,360 --> 00:49:46,080 Speaker 1: you were listening to Here's the Thing